D3boards.com

Moderator's note:  The UNO topics on the Message Boards have been merged for sake of continuity. Thanks to Peyton Low for starting the discussion with the topic entitled "UNO's Pasternak Calls D-III 'glorified intramural team'."  --Ralph Turner

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http://www.wwltv.com/news/UNO-asks-to-drop-athletics-to-NCAA-Div-III-79076162.html

...On Friday, The LSU Board of Supervisors, which governs the university, gave the okay for UNO to pursue plans to downsize its athletic program by dropping from an NCAA Division 1 school to a Division 3. The financial savings is estimated at $2.5 million each year.

"Division 3 is a glorified intramural team," said Joe Pasternak, Head Coach for the UNO Men's Basketball team. "So it will dramatically change, I think, how the university will be looked upon."

One of the biggest changes will be a halt on all athletic scholarships--troubling news for groups like the men's swimming and diving team, where about two thirds are either from out of state or out of country. Phillip Graeter is a 19 year old freshman from Germany and says the reason he and many of his fellow teammates came to UNO was because of athletic scholarships.

Mr. Pasternak, I believe, will get some angry retorts from this community and others. Will he care? Doubt it. D-3 coaches don't get big time shoe deals and company cars. But if you're in for coaching for that, you need to re-assess, IMHO.

Also, the perception of UNO is basically a middling member of a middling conference that has no cache nationally nor any real reason to be in D-1.

I wonder if Coach Pasternak will revise his attitude in time to avoid going 3-22 his first season in D3?! :D

Quote from: smedindy on December 13, 2009, 01:49:26 PM
Mr. Pasternak, I believe, will get some angry retorts from this community and others. Will he care? Doubt it. D-3 coaches don't get big time shoe deals and company cars. But if you're in for coaching for that, you need to re-assess, IMHO.

Also, the perception of UNO is basically a middling member of a middling conference that has no cache nationally nor any real reason to be in D-1.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 13, 2009, 01:51:53 PM
I wonder if Coach Pasternak will revise his attitude in time to avoid going 3-22 his first season in D3?! :D

I seriously doubt the Coach Pasternak will still be at UNO when the Privateers are in D-III.

Background on the UNO situation

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_athletics_will_be_what_its.html

QuoteUNO's athletics support has been dwindling for a while; Hurricane Katrina only accelerated and exacerbated the problem. Donations haven't poured in, state budget cuts in education affected UNO more adversely than other universities and the student body just hasn't been all that interested in subsidizing the athletics department - it voted down a measure to increase student fees in an effort to offset the budget cuts.

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http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_athletics_will_be_what_its.html

QuoteAll things considered - decreased student population  (from 17,000 pre-Katrina to 11,000), lack of funds (due to Louisiana Budget crunch), dismal attendance - investigating a move to D-III certainly seems prudent.

(My comments in italics)

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http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_chancellor_tim_ryan_cites.html

Quote
The athletic program receives about $3.3 million for the fiscal year from the student athletic fund. The athletic department was receiving more than $5 million per fiscal year prior to Katrina. Also with the budget cuts implemented in July,  the university was forced to eliminate all general-fund support to the athletic program.
...

The cost cutting involved in dropping to Division III is dramatic. According to NCAA.org,  the average total expenses during the 2006-2007 fiscal year for a Division III school with a football program is nearly $2.5 million,  and $1.9 million without football. After the student body voted against an athletics fee increase in late April,  the university banked on a lucrative check from the Wick Carey estate,  a donation from Hornets owner George Shinn and a committee of local leaders spearheaded by Shinn to help drive contributions.

The efforts haven't had the effect the university anticipated. Ryan said the dollar figure of the Wick Carey estate,  in which one-third of the estate was left to the UNO athletic program,  was widely exaggerated. He said the rumors of the estate being worth $150 million was inaccurate. The total amount would be somewhere near $25 million,  meaning UNO would receive around $8 million.


...Birmingham Southern was the first this decade to drop from Division I to Division III in 2006. Other schools to move from Division I to Division III were Brooklyn College in 1998,  Utica in 1988,  New York University in 1984 and Catholic in 1981. Centenary in Shreveport will complete the moving process in 2012.

(I think that Centenary will begin the four-year re-classification process in fall 2011 due to obligations in the Summit League.)

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http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/uno_thinking_of_moving_athleti.html

Quote
The release said an application to make the switch would be due to the NCAA by May 15 to start the transformation process in the fall of 2010.

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More archives from nola.com

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2009/11/index.html

Sometimes it takes a disaster to effect common sense and reason ....   ;)

Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Win.

So has he told us why he didn't schedule any "glorified intramural" teams on his schedule?

LSU board okays UNO move to NCAA Division III (http://www.wwl.com/pages/5875711.php?contentType=4&contentId=5212687)

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Quote
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"Division III fits the academic mission of the university," said Ryan. "Division III allows for participation, it allows for a large number of sports, it allows for sports that are popular. Sports like football and soccer, which we can't even think about doing under Division I."

In order to complete the move to D-III in time, UNO had to give notice to the Sunbelt Conference by the end of December, or it would owe a $500,000 fine. Ryan said he also wanted to give maximum time to students currently on athletic scholarship to consider transferring to other schools.

When UNO leaves the Sun Belt Conference, and South Alabama adds varsity football, the Sun Belt becomes a 12-member conference with everyone except University of Denver and University of Arkansas Little Rock as football playing members.

Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Great point.  Over the past few days ESPN has done features on the athletic programs at schools like Florida State and Miami (FL).  During the course of these shows, it becomes blatantly obvious to the viewer that many of the top Division I schools are seriously bending their academic requirements for athletes in pursuit of winning football and basketball teams.  Undoubtedly that happens to some degree with a few schools in Division III, but not to the rampant extent seen in Division I. 

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2009, 09:24:15 PM
LSU board okays UNO move to NCAA Division III (http://www.wwl.com/pages/5875711.php?contentType=4&contentId=5212687)

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Quote
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"Division III fits the academic mission of the university," said Ryan. "Division III allows for participation, it allows for a large number of sports, it allows for sports that are popular. Sports like football and soccer, which we can't even think about doing under Division I."

In order to complete the move to D-III in time, UNO had to give notice to the Sunbelt Conference by the end of December, or it would owe a $500,000 fine. Ryan said he also wanted to give maximum time to students currently on athletic scholarship to consider transferring to other schools.

When UNO leaves the Sun Belt Conference, and South Alabama adds varsity football, the Sun Belt becomes a 12-member conference with everyone except University of Denver and University of Arkansas Little Rock as football playing members.

While they may still be in the process of upgrading I think it can safely be said that South Alabama already has varsity football, as Huntingdon can confirm.

Quote from: CarrollStreaks on December 14, 2009, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Great point.  Over the past few days ESPN has done features on the athletic programs at schools like Florida State and Miami (FL).  During the course of these shows, it becomes blatantly obvious to the viewer that many of the top Division I schools are seriously bending their academic requirements for athletes in pursuit of winning football and basketball teams.  Undoubtedly that happens to some degree with a few schools in Division III, but not to the rampant extent seen in Division I. 

I don't have a problem with schools bending admissions requirements for certain students, the real problem is then bending the actual academic requirements when they arrive.

If a kid who ordinarily would not be able to get a chance at college can because of his athletic ability, I think that's something to be celebrated, but the athletic department then needs to make sure he has the help to succeed, not evade the academic process.

UNO -- Playing in Limbo (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1)

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Quote...There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 15, 2009, 12:43:42 PM

Quote from: CarrollStreaks on December 14, 2009, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: frank uible on December 13, 2009, 05:39:52 PM
Mr. Pasternak, the academics for most inter-collegiate basketball players at most DI colleges is at best merely glorified junior high school.

Great point.  Over the past few days ESPN has done features on the athletic programs at schools like Florida State and Miami (FL).  During the course of these shows, it becomes blatantly obvious to the viewer that many of the top Division I schools are seriously bending their academic requirements for athletes in pursuit of winning football and basketball teams.  Undoubtedly that happens to some degree with a few schools in Division III, but not to the rampant extent seen in Division I. 

I don't have a problem with schools bending admissions requirements for certain students, the real problem is then bending the actual academic requirements when they arrive.

If a kid who ordinarily would not be able to get a chance at college can because of his athletic ability, I think that's something to be celebrated, but the athletic department then needs to make sure he has the help to succeed, not evade the academic process.

I waiver a bit on that, because I agree, it's great that the athletic talents of some can land them a chance at college.  However when we're talking about underqualified kids attending some of our country's most prestigious universities, I think that's a problem (not to mention a recipe for disaster).

There are stories coming out of Florida State that left me needing to pick my jaw up from the floor.  But that's not to pick on FSU, because there's no doubt that this stuff is happening at schools throughout Division I.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 05:13:12 PM
UNO -- Playing in Limbo (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1)

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Quote...There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process.

Is this story implying that the ASC has spurned UNO's feelers to join the conference after moving to D3? That would surprise me, because, as we've discussed, the ASC seems like a good fit for UNO.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2009, 09:13:59 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 05:13:12 PM
UNO -- Playing in Limbo (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1)

Pull Quote...

Quote...There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process.

Is this story implying that the ASC has spurned UNO's feelers to join the conference after moving to D3? That would surprise me, because, as we've discussed, the ASC seems like a good fit for UNO.

Story does imply that; that said, UNO would be considerably larger than any other ASC school.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2009, 09:13:59 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 05:13:12 PM
UNO -- Playing in Limbo (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1)

Pull Quote...

Quote...There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process.

Is this story implying that the ASC has spurned UNO's feelers to join the conference after moving to D3? That would surprise me, because, as we've discussed, the ASC seems like a good fit for UNO.

I would prefer to have Centenary.  Centenary has been on the ASC radar for a long time.

Centenary is about five hours closer for almost everyone.  Shreveport to New Orleans is 343 miles.  Louisiana College is 222 miles from UNO.   Louisiana College is 176 miles from Mississippi College.  New Orleans to Mississippi College is 195 miles.  There is no natural travel partner that is close for UNO.  As it is now, it is a triangle down there.  If NAIA football member Belhaven in Jackson MS were to move to D3, then that would make a nice group.

With 11,000 students generating $3.3M in fees to fund an athletic department, that is about $1M more that the usual D3 program.  The facilities are probably better than any D3 programs in this part of the country.

I think that the UNO issue is who gets into the ASC-East as the 8th team.  Centenary is probably in line ahead of UNO.

Ralph,

You might want to poll the ASC players whether they would prefer Bourbon Street or Shreveport! :D

But then ask the ASC coaches.... :P

Quote from: Ron Boerger on December 15, 2009, 10:50:06 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2009, 09:13:59 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 05:13:12 PM
UNO -- Playing in Limbo (http://www.nola.com/uno/t-p/baseball/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/126042664882030.xml&coll=1)

Pull Quote...

Quote...There already have been bumps in the Division-III road for UNO. Sources familiar with the situation said the school informally has been denied acceptance into at least two Division III conferences during its decision-making process.

Is this story implying that the ASC has spurned UNO's feelers to join the conference after moving to D3? That would surprise me, because, as we've discussed, the ASC seems like a good fit for UNO.

Story does imply that; that said, UNO would be considerably larger than any other ASC school.

Actually according to the latest numbers I've seen UT-Dallas is slightly larger than UNO. Hurricane Katrina took a huge toll on UNO's enrollment and they still haven't recovered.

UT-D has a huge graduate enrollment (over 5K) but even excluding that, you're right, they have about the same undergrad enrollment as UNO.  +1 for the correction.  

That said ... neither UT-D or UT-Tyler offer football.  If UNO wanted to offer it (and since they have a club team now it would seem likely) then UNO would theoretically be by far the largest school to offer a football program in the ASC - the only other state school to offer it is Sul Ross, which is much smaller.  

Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 10:51:31 PM
With 11,000 students generating $3.3M in fees to fund an athletic department, that is about $1M more that the usual D3 program.  The facilities are probably better than any D3 programs in this part of the country.

The news stories out of New Orleans are reporting UNO's enrollment as 11,000, but the Petersons website currently shows enrollment as 8,648, which is smaller than that of the University of Texas-Dallas.

Petersons also shows that the UNO undergraduate student body is 95% commuter, 5% resident. That's very significant; it's difficult to muster much interest in school activities among commuter students, and urban commuter schools thus tend to have significantly undersupported athletic programs, when they have athletic programs at all. Case in point: Northeastern Illinois University, which is the same size as UNO, dropped its D1 athletic programs and disbanded the athletic department entirely, because nobody ever showed up for games. Chicago State University, which is also D1, is often outdrawn by CCIW schools in terms of average attendance. UTD has consistently drawn 250-300 fans for Comets games -- and never drew more than 450 for a game last season, in spite of the fact that the Comets won the ASC and made it to the Elite Eight! And UTD has a significantly bigger resident student base than does UNO (UTD is 79% commuter, 21% resident).

(The only exceptions to the commuters-don't-care dictum that comes to mind are urban commuter-majority schools that have national-profile D1 basketball traditions that stretch back for decades, such as DePaul, St. John's, and Temple.)

UNO has a magnificent facility: Lakefront Arena, which seats 10,000. But it's practically empty on game nights; while a big-name opponent such as North Carolina State or a local rival such as Tulane or Mississippi can bump up attendance over the 1,000 mark on occasion, the typical home game against a conference rival such as Arkansas State, Denver, or North Dakota draws about 500 to 700 fans. And that's against D1 competition; imagine how much lower the attendance will be once UNO becomes a D3 team.

I understand that the student fees of a public school that size could generate a pretty healthy-sized athletic department budget. But there's no guarantee that the school will continue to charge the same-sized fee once the school changes from D1 to D3. UNO is about the same size as a WIAC school, and the WIAC folks are always pleading poverty with regard to their athletic budgets in comparison to some of the fat-cat-supported private schools in D3.

In other words, the student population figure for UNO -- whether it's the reported 11,000 or the 8,648 that Petersons claims -- is deceptive. It's resident students that sit in the stands and support their school's teams, not undergraduate students in general.

Greg:

Just out of curiosity, is your local Loyola primarily a commuter venue?

Loyola (IL) is 40% resident, 60% commuter. That's actually a slightly higher resident ratio than Elmhurst has. The difference is that Loyola has 10,000 students, which means 4,000 residents who give the campus a sense of life outside of the classroom -- including at basketball games at Loyola's 5,000-seat Gentile Center.

The East Rogers Park neighborhood around Loyola has a very vibrant, "college-town" sort of feel that you don't get around a commuter school, and that's because the 4,000 resident students provide enough of a critical mass to give the nearby community that atmosphere.

Thanks, Greg.

Being a predominantly commuter school (plus living in the very large shadow of U of M) has always been the death knell for Eastern Michigan.  I think the on-campus population is <5,000, though there are also about 3,000 who live in apartments nearby (of a total enrollment of 19-24,000, depending on the economy).  This has been enough to keep the Convo Center hopping for basketball, but they will NEVER (legitimately) average much over 7,000 for football (which will someday get them kicked out of D1).

University of New Orleans reported the following numbers to the U.S. Department of Education for last school year:

Number of Full-time Undergraduates: 6,546
Men: 3,248
Women: 3,298

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 17, 2009, 02:31:15 AM
University of New Orleans reported the following numbers to the U.S. Department of Education for last school year:

Number of Full-time Undergraduates: 6,546
Men: 3,248
Women: 3,298

Do you have a link for that info?  I would love to see what the schools report on there compared to what they put out on their websites. 

Here you go:

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/

I use this because it's precise and consistent.

Moderator's note:  The UNO topics on the Message Boards have been merged for sake of continuity. Thanks to Tacttm1 for picking up the discussion.  --Ralph Turner

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Making this a new thread:

Pat and All:

I am usually on the SCAC Football Board, but since my Alma Mater is preparing for the trek to DIII, I thought I'd add some information and ask some questions.

 In no particular order:

Current enrollment at University of New Orleans is at 11,000  (verified through UNO registrar and Chancellor)

The Chancellor reports that he has been in discussions with the American Southwest Conference about that being a D# home, saying that even if UNO were invited, it would be at least 3 years down the road.

The athletic budget of just over 3 Million dollars would put UNO in the top of D3 programs, while that same amount has UNO at the median of the fourth quartile of D1 schools; this according to the Chancellor based on NCAA audit numbers.

UNO has officially withdrawn from the Sunbelt Conference and will play "whoever" they can next year and following years while 'new' sports are added, applications to D3 and Conferences are made.

Applications for a new AD are being accepted now.

The existing Basketball Coach did indeed make disparaging remarks about D3 and these feelings are shared by many in the ranks of supporters (mostly because of ignorance and hurt feelings from the classification change process)

As I am unfamiliar with the ASWC, is there indeed an opening that would suit a large metro school like UNO??  

Fan support (attendance and financially) is weak, at best...the comuter shool situation is difficult, as are the numerous distractions and outlets for time, energy and money in New Orleans.


The switch to D3 for UNO is a done deal; now the process of riding out D1, building back the required number of sports and seeking a 'new home' begins.  In a State where universities and colleges are having another round of layoffs this month due to immediate budget and spending cuts, it 'ain't' a lot of fun.

As supporters of the athletes themselves, all of us who post here must imagine the difficulty, pain and anger having this occur during your season or final couple years of eligibility must cause.

I welcome your comments and any insights you all may have on any of this.

Thanks for starting this thread, and for the informative post about UNO's current status.

You're in luck in that one of the most frequent contributors to these boards is our resident expert on the ASC, Ralph Turner. He's an alumnus of McMurry University, one of the ASC's members, and he's also very conversant with the D3 transition process (including the four-year probationary period). No doubt he'll be chiming in here shortly.

I certainly hope so, Mr. Sager.  There is plenty of mis-information going around in the UNO sports community along with a general distrust of the Chancellor's announcements (long story!!)

Just saw the email.

I have several big projects on my plate at this time, but I will get some material to you soon.

Part of the information deals with Centenary and their reclasssification to D-III.

You can glean a lot of information from those sources.

Glad to have you.  D-III is a lot of fun.  It seem to be a more collegial group of fans.

Someone mentioned the fun thing about Rugby...a good chance to run in the mud, get dirty, burn off some energy and then go share some liquid refreshment with the guy whose head you busted in about 15 mintues ago.  For us on these boards, the camaraderie is special to us.

Thanks, Ralph.

I am no stranger to D3, so I agree with you on the assessment of the fans.  I am a regular contributor to the Board on the SCAC Football forum. 

Here is a link to my favorite post from last season, it will give you an idea of how I see things in "our" world:  about halfway down the page:
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4753.7935

I am looking forward to your info whenever you get a chance....I am stating to consider myself a D3 ambassador to help sooth some very hurt folks.

TT1

Here are the discussions and blogs dealing with the reclassification of Centenary and UNO.

Centenary in Jun 2009.

http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/06/04/making-the-case-for-centenary-la-and-d-iii/#comments  

(The comments on this blog were copied from the Shreveport Times before they were made "unavailable".)

There are UNO discussions on another message board.


UNO has the luxury of being able to get release from the Sun Belt Conference this spring.  Centenary is contracted with the Summit League thru 2011-12.  That may delay their re-classification.  One thought that I had is that the Summit League will decide whether they want to fly to Shreveport for the sake of a game.  If the travel budgets warrant, then Centenary might be released from its 2011-12 obligation.

IMHO, the ASC would jump at the chance to get Centenary.  On I-20, in a 110 mile stretch, you have UT-Tyler, LeTourneau in Longview, East Texas Baptist in Marshall and Centenary in Shreveport.  That would give a very compact ASC-East.  Travel partners would include Mississippi College/Louisiana College, UT-Dallas/UOzarks, UT-Tyler/LeTU, ETBU/Centenary.

UNO is another matter.  It is a three hour drive from Mississippi College and Louisiana College.  I wonder how bad the budget crunch really is at UNO.  Can the school even afford to keep its doors open?  I don't know.

Who will schedule UNO?  I think that they can get games with the GSAC schools in January and February.  They may also get games with NAIA schools in the Louisiana in the late season.

The 5-year plan for UNO is to be in conference in 2015-16.  I think that that is likely.  Here is a schedule for UNO.

2010-11 Exploratory year for re-classification
2011-12 First year as a proivisional in the re-classification process.
2012-13 Second year.
2013-14 Third year as a provisional in the re-classification.  Games versus UNO will count towards in-region status.
2014-15 Fourth year.
2015-16 First year to be fully eligible.

When Birmingham-Southern announced the re-classification in May 2006, they dropped D-1 basketball for the 2006-07 season.


Another question is what other teams wish to move the D-III in this part of the country.  The ASC could split into 2 conferences if there were another 3-4 teams.

As for competition, UNO is most likely to get talented D-III students who don't have to go away to compete.  I think by 2017 UNO is a quality D-III program.

I agree with Pat Coleman.  I don't think that the student fee that is generating $3M for D-1 will be in effect at the D-III level.  Still, if they cut the fee by 1/3, then that is still $2M which can sponsor football.  However, varsity D-3 football might a reason to keep the student fee at its current level.

The wisdom of founding ASC Commissioner, the legendary  Fred Jacoby, was to always have 9-10 teams in the conference, to prevent one school from holding the conference hostage.  I think that wisdom is honored by ASC presidents.  Centenary would make 16. UNO would make 17.  I think that there need to be 2-3 more schools in this part of the country to move to D-III before the ASC were to split into 2 conferences.

Just some thoughts while tornados and major thunderstorms roll thru the county...  :)

Headed-for-D-III-New-Orleans-pulls-out-of-Sun-Belt (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2010/01/20/headed-for-d-iii-new-orleans-pulls-out-of-sun-belt.html)

Click the underscore for the link location to front page story on D3hoops.com.

Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition. It would also seem some conferencess might be more interested in adding two schools rather than one to keep an even number of teams for scheduling purposes.

Quote from: Just Bill on January 21, 2010, 09:36:14 AM
Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition. It would also seem some conferencess might be more interested in adding two schools rather than one to keep an even number of teams for scheduling purposes.

UNO is a large (for D3) public school, Centenary is an elite small private school.  Usually that's not an ideal combination for a rivalry.

I know Ralph and the ASC are lusting after Centenary, but IMO they're a better fit for the SCAC, especially should a Colorado College (or DePauw) want to change conference affilliations.  CC is on an island and would arguably be a better fit in D2 where they could greatly reduce their travel costs.  DPU may have an interest in going to the NCAC for similar reasons.

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 21, 2010, 09:47:57 AM

Quote from: Just Bill on January 21, 2010, 09:36:14 AM
Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition. It would also seem some conferencess might be more interested in adding two schools rather than one to keep an even number of teams for scheduling purposes.

UNO is a large (for D3) public school, Centenary is an elite small private school.  Usually that's not an ideal combination for a rivalry.

I know Ralph and the ASC are lusting after Centenary, but IMO they're a better fit for the SCAC, especially should a Colorado College (or DePauw) want to change conference affilliations.  CC is on an island and would arguably be a better fit in D2 where they could greatly reduce their travel costs.  DPU may have an interest in going to the NCAC for similar reasons.

Maybe not lusting,   ;)    but they would be an excellent addition.

I think that there are members in the Centenary family that see Centenary in the SCAC with their "academic" peers from the Associated Colleges of the South.

www.colleges.org

The ASC has wanted Centenary since its inception in D3.

Trinity "started" in the "ASC" when it was one of the founding schools of the TIAA 1976.

Austin College was a charter member of the TIAA and the ASC in 1996.

I thought it was a foregone conclusion that with Earlham switching to the HCAC that Depauw was going to make the switch to the NCAC.

Quote from: Just Bill on January 21, 2010, 09:36:14 AM
Would it be logical to think that Centenary and UNO might want to align themselves together as they look for a new conference home?  They would be a natural rivalry being from the same state and having made the same transition.

In my time in New Orleans, I'm not sure I met five people who had a clear idea where Shreveport even was.  It's a lo-o-ong way away, and there is little or no cultural connection between the two cities.  This is in addition to the vastly different profiles of the two schools.  UNO's natural D3 rival should be Tulane, but that ship, unfortunately, has sailed.

Quote from: WashU33Fan on January 21, 2010, 02:48:09 PM
I thought it was a foregone conclusion that with Earlham switching to the HCAC that Depauw was going to make the switch to the NCAC.

I haven't heard that, but so long as Wabash remains a member, it's certainly a logical move for the NCAC.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 21, 2010, 02:25:36 PM

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

SCAC travel costs CC a fortune; every away game is a plane trip.  They still retain a couple of D1 sports so they're not all that in love with the 'pure' D3 model.  D2 would let them play a lot closer to home and financial considerations are a big concern in the Springs right now.  It's purely speculation but their presence in the SCAC is a complication for everyone else in the conference, travel-wise.  It might be that everyone, including CC, would be better served by their departure. 

Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 21, 2010, 06:23:37 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 21, 2010, 02:25:36 PM

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

SCAC travel costs CC a fortune; every away game is a plane trip.  They still retain a couple of D1 sports so they're not all that in love with the 'pure' D3 model.  D2 would let them play a lot closer to home and financial considerations are a big concern in the Springs right now.  It's purely speculation but their presence in the SCAC is a complication for everyone else in the conference, travel-wise.  It might be that everyone, including CC, would be better served by their departure.  

The other aspect about Colorado College is that their students only take one course at a time.  Absences lost due to travel are even more onerous in that curriculum.

CC's joining the Rocky Mountain AC would dramatically cut the amount of missed school time for all of the student-athletes on campus.

I have one other question for the NCAA experts.

There is no "D-II" Men's Ice Hockey.  If Colorado College were to re-classify to D-II for all other sports, would their D-1 Men's Ice Hockey program be required to "re-classify" to D-II and lose access to the post-season in the meantime?

How would the Women's D-1 Soccer Program be treated?  Would they be allowed to re-classify to D-II with the rest of the Women's programs?  Or, would the NCAA require or permit them to remain as D-I?

NOLA (Times-Picayune) article on UNO's withdrawal.

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2010/01/sun_belt_conference_accepts_un.html

Quote[Sun Belt Commissioner Wright] Waters said the conference will stay at 12 teams once UNO leaves and there's no plans to expand or contract. Men's basketball, women's basketball and volleyball will have two six-team divisions: East -- Florida Atlantic, Florida International, Middle Tennessee State, South Alabama, Troy and Western Kentucky; West -- UALR, Arkansas State, Denver, Louisiana-Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe and North Texas. UNO currently plays in the West Division.

UNO's departure provides some balance and logical travel partners for this conference that is spread over three time zones.  (There are about 20 daily flights on 4 airlines between DFW and Denver, i.e., North Texas and U Denver.)

Coach Pasternak gave more reserved comments in the article.

QuoteIt's a move UNO men's basketball coach Joe Pasternack anticipated. And with the Privateers gearing up to face Louisiana-Lafayette on Thursday night at the Cajundome, all Pasternack said he can do is help his team prepare for basketball now and aid in his and his players' futures later.

"We've known and our players have known that this day was coming, so it's not a surprise, " Pasternack said. "The UNO administration feels that the only way to have athletics at UNO is to reclassify to Division III, which is a lot better than eliminating athletics all together. All we can focus on is our basketball team and our next opponent, Louisiana-Lafayette. I think they are the most talented team in our league."

UNO players can transfer without penalty after June 30.

QuoteThere's a possibility other Sun Belt schools could be interested in recruiting current UNO student-athletes. But NCAA transfer rules are still in effect to an extent and the NCAA has contacted every Sun Belt school, according to the conference's release.

Any UNO student-athlete that transfers to another Sun Belt school before June 30 shall be subject to the intra-conference transfer requirement and must sit out a season. NCAA contact rules also require a school receive permission from the UNO athletic director before contacting a UNO student-athlete.

After June 30, UNO student-athletes will be able to transfer penalty-free and play without having to sit out one season.

The Sun Belt Conference allowed UNO to leave without penalty.

QuoteNormally a $500,000 penalty is attached to a school voluntarily leaving the conference. But the Sun Belt unanimously voted to waive the fee.

Ralph,

Re: Colorado College men's hockey, because D-II hockey doesn't exist, D-II schools with hockey programs play in D-I and play by D-I rules.  See Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha for examples.

Quote from: Just Bill on January 21, 2010, 10:55:14 PM
Ralph,

Re: Colorado College men's hockey, because D-II hockey doesn't exist, D-II schools with hockey programs play in D-I and play by D-I rules.  See Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha for examples.

Yes, but if CC were to re-classify to D-II to join the RMAC, could Colorado College move its women's soccer team to the RMAC?

Would they want to move the soccer team from D-1?  Just thoughts and questions...

Thanks.

UNO is down to 9 sports currently:  M/W Hoops, M/W Swimming, M/W Tennis, M Golf, Baseball and Volleyball.  That is on men's and two women's sports shy of the D-III minimum for a school that large.

http://www.unoprivateers.com/

In 2008-09, the UNO Privateers averaged 743 fans for 15 men's basketball games including 1300 for NCState and 1085 for Tulane.  The college President has made the right choice.

https://admin.xosn.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=86682&SPID=10255&DB_OEM_ID=16700&ATCLID=1626110

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2010, 11:06:57 PM

Quote from: Just Bill on January 21, 2010, 10:55:14 PM
Ralph,

Re: Colorado College men's hockey, because D-II hockey doesn't exist, D-II schools with hockey programs play in D-I and play by D-I rules.  See Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha for examples.

Yes, but if CC were to re-classify to D-II to join the RMAC, could Colorado College move its women's soccer team to the RMAC?

Would they want to move the soccer team from D-1?  Just thoughts and questions...

Thanks.

Title IX comes into play ... not sure D2 scholarships and D1 scholarships are 'equitable', at the very least they'd have to offer the same number of scholarships to the soccer team as the hockey team ?

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2010, 11:06:57 PM

Quote from: Just Bill on January 21, 2010, 10:55:14 PM
Ralph,

Re: Colorado College men's hockey, because D-II hockey doesn't exist, D-II schools with hockey programs play in D-I and play by D-I rules.  See Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Nebraska-Omaha for examples.

Yes, but if CC were to re-classify to D-II to join the RMAC, could Colorado College move its women's soccer team to the RMAC?

Would they want to move the soccer team from D-1?  Just thoughts and questions...

Thanks.

Hockey is king at CC.  They sell 6,000 tickets to every home game (5th highest average in the country).  They rival Air Force football as the biggest sports team in town (a metro area of half a million people).  I don't know what their financial situation is like, but having gone to high school in Colorado Springs, they've always given the impression that they have more money than God.  Students certainly pay a high enough tuition to maintain a generous athletic budget.

I want to say that if they're already paying to fly everywhere it makes more sense to go D1.  CC's enrollment (about 2,000) is a just a little too small to make that work, though.  Denver University is in a similar spot in D1, but they have 5,000 students.

CC bills themselves as an ivy-esque elite academic school.  They've got a centrally located campus surrounded by hedges and trees so its hard to even see onto the campus from the outside.  I used to go to volleyball games there when I was in high school and the aura of the place is wealth and exclusivity.  They actively thumb their noses at the d2 schools in the area.  I just don't see any way they would ever go d2 in athletics.  It would be like a humiliation.

Quote from: WashU33Fan on January 21, 2010, 02:48:09 PM
I thought it was a foregone conclusion that with Earlham switching to the HCAC that Depauw was going to make the switch to the NCAC.

Nothing is a foregone conclusion at DePauw!

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 22, 2010, 09:59:10 AM

CC bills themselves as an ivy-esque elite academic school.  They've got a centrally located campus surrounded by hedges and trees so its hard to even see onto the campus from the outside.  I used to go to volleyball games there when I was in high school and the aura of the place is wealth and exclusivity.  They actively thumb their noses at the d2 schools in the area.  I just don't see any way they would ever go d2 in athletics.  It would be like a humiliation.

Agreed. CC 'fits' a lot better in D-3 than D-2. They certainly don't have any peers in Colorado, for the most part.

Though if they did D-1 without football, they certainly wouldn't be the smallest.

How does CC compare to Nebraska Wesleyan?

Quote from: Gray Fox on January 22, 2010, 03:52:36 PM
How does CC compare to Nebraska Wesleyan?

According to the annual US News rankings, NW is a tier 3 (of 4) Liberal Arts college, while CC is Tier 1 (ranked 24th) in the same category.  CC costs half again as much to attend as does NW. 

66% of CC freshman were in the top 10% of their high school class; NW, 26%.

School sizes are within 10% of each other (just under 2000).   

Let me first thank Ralph and Pat for the wealth of information re: UNO, D3, Conferences, etc.  I have used that info, plus comments from other respected members to help inform my UNO community (to various degrees of success!!) over the past few months.

Here is some updated information for your perusal and comment:

1)  After a search for a new Athletic Director...80 plus candidates, 4 finalists....the AD job has been given to the current Head Women's Basketball Coach Amy Champion.  Though it has been dubbed 'interim', Champion says to expect that to change shortly.

Champion was not a finalist for the position.  Actually, the word is that Tallach from Centenary was offered and turned down the position.

2) Grumblings over a hasty move out of D1 and the Sun Belt came from candidates for the job, continue from knowledgeable sources and financial supporters and have the Chancellor on the hot seat.  Some candidates for the AD position suggested that they would like to re-visit the idea of switching, contrary to the directives given by the Chancellor.

3)  The hot seat for Chancellor Ryan reportedly involves the above mentioned move and also unpleasant comments directed at supporter, lack of leadership and general issues that confront Universities in these tough financial times.

4)  The acceptance of Centenary into the ASC further complicates matters as to where UNO would be accepted in D3, especially in light of travel, enrollment size, sports, etc.

5)  Budget cuts and fiscal issue within Louisiana have many programs, fundings and plans on hold at all schools (even LSU...they are holding off on finishing the band building, or some such!!   This makes bringing in a qualified AD difficult.  Imagine making a decision to relocate your family when you don't even know what will happen at your University from fiscal quarter to quarter.  Also, some candidates for the AD position suggested that they would like to re-visit the idea of switching, contrary to the directives given by the Chancellor.

6) Scuttlebutt involves changes of heart in the Division switch, split off conferences, etc.


Feedback or thoughts?  Information or suggestions?

Quote from: Tacttm1 on April 21, 2010, 08:55:18 PM2) Grumblings over a hasty move out of D1 and the Sun Belt came from candidates for the job, continue from knowledgeable sources and financial supporters and have the Chancellor on the hot seat.  Some candidates for the AD position suggested that they would like to re-visit the idea of switching, contrary to the directives given by the Chancellor.

I find this a fascinating detail. Perhaps I'm simply naive, but as somebody who has been through a number of job interviews in his life and who is familiar with the process, I find it very hard to understand how a candidate for a position could assert in an interview that the firm that's interviewing him has made a major mistake in mission and policy in his prospective department, and that he would like the firm to completely reverse the decision! It's tantamount to saying, "I sure would like to come work for you, but you've completely screwed up your business ... and if you hire me I want you to go back to your old way of doing things."

I understand that candor can have its place in the job-interview process, but not only do the statements and attitudes of these AD candidates completely lack the sort of politesse necessary to make a good impression and secure the job, it just seems totally counterintuitive in terms of procedure. Why would you apply for the AD job at a school already well in transition from D1 to D3 if your intention is to be the AD of a D1 school? Who applies for a job that he neither wants nor likes? As I said, maybe I'm naive, but I just don't get it.

Quote from: Tacttm1 on April 21, 2010, 08:55:18 PM6) Scuttlebutt involves changes of heart in the Division switch, split off conferences, etc.

It makes sense that resistance would continue to be high; the D3 brand is all but unknown in that part of the country, the association of D1 with institutional prestige and media interest is universal throughout American sports, and there are certainly obstacles of distance and conference affiliation involved with the switch to D3 (not that there weren't for UNO in D1 as well). But it seems to me that the basic situation hasn't changed for UNO. If anything, the state budgetary crunch would make it even more imperative for a public university with a commuter student base and a long-standing niche on D1's bottom rung to scale back its athletic budget and move to D3.

Given the unemployment crisis in America, I find it difficult to believe that there aren't qualified AD candidates out there willing to take on the UNO job, even as the school is midstream in a difficult transition process. Even if there aren't any such candidates out there, it's perfectly possible that Amy Champion or someone like her could develop into a fine AD. After all, everybody has to start somewhere; experienced ADs don't just appear out of thin air, right? ;)

No doubt this transition to D3 is fraught with difficulties for UNO, many of which we've discussed at length here. But it doesn't seem to me, from my distant remove from the situation, that anything has changed regarding the untenability of UNO remaining in D1. If anything, the drying up of funds from the state of Louisiana would seem to make D1 status even more untenable for UNO.

Your points are well taken. I agree that for candidates to even hint at disagreementwith the bosses direction usually doesn't bode well for getting the job.  On the otherhand, sometimes it is better to call a pig 'maybe a swine' rather than place yourself into a life position that is composed of wrong decisions.  (did that make sense??)  I think that the level of expertise coming from 3 of the 4 finalists made avoiding the obvious quite difficult.

Part of the situation is that the timelines and tactics for moving to D3 were not thought out, so many suppostions wer used to make decisions.

As for any change in the fiscal climate, yes, funds are drying up, but the Chancellor has stated that he would keep the student athletic assessment the same.  This, he said, would allow UNO to run a better funded D3 program rather than a lower level funded D1 program.

What would help UNO most is a D-III travel partner in south Louisiana for the prospective D-III conferences in the South.  This is not rocket science, but Centenary has been on the ASC radar since the conference's move to D-III in 1996.  As I wrote elsewhere, UT-Tyler on the West and Centenary on the east give four D-III schools on the I-20 corridor 100 miles apart!  They are virtually falling over themselves down here.  Eight is a nice number, but 10 schools on the East might help with the splitting of the ASC into two conferences.

Having 2 schools on the Gulf would also help the GSAC, if the GSAC doesn't pick up some Atlanta schools in the mean time.

The budget contingency in the state of Louisiana makes D-III the only practical option.  Does UNO see its peers for mission and vision as NAIA schools in the city?  That is my first question.

Disclaimer -- I have no insde knowledge of any activity inside the ASC or the UNO situation.

UNO has filed the formalities as of today:

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2010/05/uno_submits_division_iii_appli.html

Seems like the talk is that ASC is still their first choice......of course that has to be a two way street!!  

Defections to other D1 programs in Basketball have been fast and furious and the baseball coach reports that he hasn't seen as many departures as he had thought, thus far.

I see the typical know-nothings saying things like "D3 is glorified club sports" and "UNO can start a football team, they have a club team already" are out in full force.

Well, the club team gives them at least a semblance of an infrastructure for starting the sport -- potentially some equipment if nothing else.

Ron:  You are correct about the D3 comments amongst some supporters of UNO athletics.  Much of that has been generated by the "process" over the past year and also some is a by-product of being unfamiliar with the emphasis of D3 programs and the lack of exposure to high performing D3 programs in this immediate area..

The leaders of the curent club football program have done much of the damage (my word) to the Athletic Program by aligning themselves with political factions, against many of the Supporters groups and seeking to follow a 'lone wolf' strategy. 

I believe that UNO is best aligned as a D-1 program, but due to the myriad of circumstances, the shift to D3 is necessary at this time. 

If the University would plan to use some of the eventual additional money to hire real coaches for football, they may be able to put together a legitimate program and (re)gain community support.  UNO Athletics is forced to 'pay back' monies to the general fund stemming from deficit years of operation; I am told other State schools in LA are not forced to negotiate this accounting process.


**this post is opinion-heavy...but then again mosy posts are!**

The critical thing for the other schools in D-3 is to understand that UNO is committed long term to D-III. 

Any rumblings about trying to re-enter D-1, thru what is now a 6-7 process, will not endear D-III schools to UNO as potential conference member.

IMHO, those D-1 rumors and scuttlebutt need to be squelched early and often, if UNO is to build D-III presence.

ASC Presidents meetings coming up........


I believe the University of New Orleans will 'probably' be in attendance to do some glad-handing when their hats are not in their hands, looking to further the cause, make nice and lay some groundwork for an entry petition.

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2010/05/university_of_new_orleans_begi.html

UNO moving to D3 makes me wonder if Carthage Coach Augie Schmidt, a Privateer ('80-'82), and 1982 Golden Spike Award winner while there, would ever consider leaving Kenosha to move to his alma mater.

I doubt he'd go as his ties have always been to Carthage as he and his father, Augie III, are the only Carthage coaches to ever win CCIW baseball titles at Carthage.

Sounds like the UNO baseball coach plans to stay.  But if he wasn't and I was the UNO AD, that would be one of my first phone calls.  An alum with deep, successful D-III experience? No brainer.

Following up on UNO and D3; unsure if they were at some recent ASC meetings or if they ae scheduled for the next set(June??)

There is also some talk about D2 being explored with the feeling that the UNO financil picture being a bit more understood by November or so in time fro December applications.

Thoughts and comments are always welcome.  So are the lucky lottery numbers!

Quote from: Tacttm1 on June 03, 2010, 01:28:45 AM
Following up on UNO and D3; unsure if they were at some recent ASC meetings or if they ae scheduled for the next set(June??)

There is also some talk about D2 being explored with the feeling that the UNO financil picture being a bit more understood by November or so in time fro December applications.

Thoughts and comments are always welcome.  So are the lucky lottery numbers!

I have not heard if they were at the ASC Presidents' Meeting last week.

The Re-classifying list for D-III should be made public in August.

I haven't heard if there is another school wanting to go D-III to be travel partner with UNO for the sake of the ASC or the Great South AC.  As it is now, UNO is another 3.5 hours beyond Louisiana College.  Having another D-III school in NOLA would make UNO more attractive.

If UNO finances athletics out of a student activity fee, then D-II might fit the existent budget.  There are no D-II football schools nearby UNO.  Would the Gulf South Conference want a New Orleans presence?

Here is the most recent update from UNO on their path to D3 classification:

http://www.unoprivateers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=16700&ATCLID=204964402

text:

NEW ORLEANS – The University of New Orleans received approval from the NCAA Division III Membership Committee to move forward with its multi-year reclassification process.

In late July, the NCAA Division III Management Council, which makes the final decision on provisional and reclassifying membership, will review UNO's application.

The Membership Committee provided UNO with a list of recommendations associated with its reclassification to Division III.

They include:

<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->The institution will adhere to its plan provided in the application to ensure that it is meeting all sport sponsorship requirements prior to the 2011-12 academic year. Schools with enrollments of over 1,000 students have a Division III sport sponsorship minimum of 12 sports - six men's and six women's.



<!--[if !supportLists]-->·         <!--[endif]-->The institution will work closely with a mentor institution.

UNO currently competes in nine sports, of which five are men's and four are women's.   It intends to add football, women's golf, and women's soccer in the coming year.   

Additionally, the University has partnered with the University of Texas at Dallas over the past several months.

UNO is committed to the Division III approach of combining academics, competitive sports, and an opportunity for student-athletes to pursue a broad range of interests.

UNO will withdraw its membership from the Sun Belt Conference on June 30 and compete as an NCAA Division I Independent Transitioning to Division III in 2010-11.

The University last competed as an NCAA Division I Independent from 1975-76 and again from 1980-1987.

In anticipation of the 2010-11 athletic calendar year, the Privateer coaching staffs have finalized their schedules, which will be announced over the next several months. The UNO volleyball team will be the first program to compete in 2010-11, beginning competition at the end of August.

Thanks -- I got this same release and have sent a few follow-up questions to UNO which I am hoping they will be able to answer.

Interesting comment by the Gulf South Conference's commissioner on wanting to lure UNO into that league, also wanting to get Mississippi College to return. 

http://www.bolivarcom.com/index.cfm?event=news.view&id=85371EFE-19B9-E2E2-67A8D7847B945874

dodgerwv- good find on the article, GSC Commissioner is a good man.  I'm not sure that what he is looking at can happen, but if anyone could do that...he could.  A lot of hoops to jump thru for UNO if they
would ou would be surprised how many times that happens.  That should be the first thing a school does in a process like this, to read it on the web or in the paper is not very professional.

GSC will survive, will be interesting to see how they salvage all of this...

Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 21, 2010, 06:23:37 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 21, 2010, 02:25:36 PM

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

SCAC travel costs CC a fortune; every away game is a plane trip.  They still retain a couple of D1 sports so they're not all that in love with the 'pure' D3 model.  D2 would let them play a lot closer to home and financial considerations are a big concern in the Springs right now.  It's purely speculation but their presence in the SCAC is a complication for everyone else in the conference, travel-wise.  It might be that everyone, including CC, would be better served by their departure. 

Travel logisitics seem to be a problem everyone could have anticipated when the SCAC agreed to let CC in. It's not as if they just moved out there. :D

CC did join the scac at the market/housing bubble peak so maybe they are a bubble scac member or at least that was the mindset when extending them an invite. I thought they might drop out this summer but other than going indy again or changing divisions they are in d3 no man's land. If the scac and cc want to stick with each other, than the scac really needs to jump to 14-16 school's and maybe that's where uno  even thought they don't fit the profile could be in play for the scac. Given that the ncac might jump to 12, the scac might also need to worry about keeping centre in the league. Still wondering what the delay is with bringing berry college aboard for the scac to replace depauw, how much dd is there to do?

Quote from: cush on July 07, 2010, 03:02:34 PMIf the scac and cc want to stick with each other, than the scac really needs to jump to 14-16 school's and maybe that's where uno  even thought they don't fit the profile could be in play for the scac.

I'd lay extremely long odds against that ever happening. All of the D3 leagues that have at least a modicum of academic cachet tend to guard it very zealously, even at the expense of considerations that might otherwise enhance the league, and the SCAC is no exception. The idea of a league of exclusive private schools that brags on its website about its near-perfect Phi Beta Kappa membership (http://www.scacsports.com/information/academicprofile) is never going to allow a public, non-exclusive university that is several times larger than the league norm to join its ranks.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 07, 2010, 04:15:02 PM

Quote from: cush on July 07, 2010, 03:02:34 PMIf the scac and cc want to stick with each other, than the scac really needs to jump to 14-16 school's and maybe that's where uno  even thought they don't fit the profile could be in play for the scac.

I'd lay extremely long odds against that ever happening. All of the D3 leagues that have at least a modicum of academic cachet tend to guard it very zealously, even at the expense of considerations that might otherwise enhance the league, and the SCAC is no exception. The idea of a league of exclusive private schools that brags on its website about its near-perfect Phi Beta Kappa membership (http://www.scacsports.com/information/academicprofile) is never going to allow a public, non-exclusive university that is several times larger than the league norm to join its ranks.

UDallas added a chapter last decade in hopes of getting into the SCAC, and they are still awaiting the invitation ot join.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2010, 04:31:23 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on July 07, 2010, 04:15:02 PM

Quote from: cush on July 07, 2010, 03:02:34 PMIf the scac and cc want to stick with each other, than the scac really needs to jump to 14-16 school's and maybe that's where uno  even thought they don't fit the profile could be in play for the scac.

I'd lay extremely long odds against that ever happening. All of the D3 leagues that have at least a modicum of academic cachet tend to guard it very zealously, even at the expense of considerations that might otherwise enhance the league, and the SCAC is no exception. The idea of a league of exclusive private schools that brags on its website about its near-perfect Phi Beta Kappa membership (http://www.scacsports.com/information/academicprofile) is never going to allow a public, non-exclusive university that is several times larger than the league norm to join its ranks.

UDallas added a chapter last decade in hopes of getting into the SCAC, and they are still awaiting the invitation ot join.

Exactly.

Quote from: K-Mack on July 07, 2010, 02:27:42 PM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 21, 2010, 06:23:37 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 21, 2010, 02:25:36 PM

I don't think CC is going anywhere.  They work very hard to cultivate the "elite academic" vibe that just doesn't come through the same way in d2.  Didn't they just join the conference recently?

SCAC travel costs CC a fortune; every away game is a plane trip.  They still retain a couple of D1 sports so they're not all that in love with the 'pure' D3 model.  D2 would let them play a lot closer to home and financial considerations are a big concern in the Springs right now.  It's purely speculation but their presence in the SCAC is a complication for everyone else in the conference, travel-wise.  It might be that everyone, including CC, would be better served by their departure. 

Travel logisitics seem to be a problem everyone could have anticipated when the SCAC agreed to let CC in. It's not as if they just moved out there. :D

As other have pointed out, Keith, what seemed like a great idea when school endowments were flush becomes less of one after they lost 30+% of their values.   All of a sudden all those plane flights - and every game involving a CC team involves a flight by someone, be it CC or the visiting team - are much less appealing.   

University of Dallas to Austin College = 68.0 miles

UDallas to DFW Airport = 11.9 miles half of which is driving to the terminal on the airport grounds to fly to some place like Colorado Springs or Atlanta.

UDallas seems like a perfect travel partner for Austin College instead of Colorado College to me.

The final crunch in Louisiana is hitting Southern University, too.

Does SU leave the SWAC and move to D-II?  They might make a D-II travel partner for UN, should the Privateers move to D-II.

Southern University (http://www.2theadvocate.com/sports/southern/97780914.html?showAll=y&c=y)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 11, 2010, 11:17:03 PM
The final crunch in Louisiana is hitting Southern University, too.

The 1927 Flood; Huey Long; the demise of the Shreveport Steamer (http://www.mghelmets.com/wfl/steamers-2.gif); Hurricane Katrina; Bill Jefferson and his freezer (http://slabbed.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dollar-bills-freezer.jpg); the ongoing destruction (http://www.thenation.com/article/36610/who-will-pay-fix-louisiana?page=0%2C1) of the coastal wetlands; and now the BP oil spill.  It's hard to know what will be the "final crunch in Louisiana."   :)

Looks like UNO has much bigger issues than athletic affiliation.  This possibility isn't raised in the story, but you have to wonder how long the state of Louisiana can continue to operate all of their colleges.  Not all that unusual for small private schools to go under, but can anyone think of fairly large state schools that have ceased to exist?  Here's the latest on the budget crunch and dropped academic programs:

http://www.wwltv.com/news/local/Layoffs-elimination-of-programs-planned-for-UNO-other-LSU-System-schools-98638469.html

UNO and Centenary have been approved for reclassification by the D-III management council...

http://tinyurl.com/32tcp83

Statement from UNO:


http://www.unoprivateers.com/downloads2/386785.pdf

UNO Athletics had the first public meeting following there push to join D3.  The article linked gives some great detail about UNO's thoughts on ASC (joining, changes, fit) and the interim plan.

I will tell you that there was emphasis on the change to student-focus and plenty of thoughts expressed that football will be a determining factor in the success of the overall athletic program.  That would mean needing to hire an actual "Head Coach" to administer the program and lead the cadre of volunteer assistants.


For now, looks like the upcoming year (s) of transition will be filled with challenges to field teams, gain support and shift attitudes.

http://www.neworleans.com/sports/uno/449085-uno-to-add-football-upgrade-facilities-during-transition-to-division-3.html


((The article mentions the Chancellor saying Kmart education.  What he actually said was K-Mart SERVICE.  This was a mis-quote by the reporter.))

That's a neat article - thanks for posting the link. For them to seek the ASC would be natural. They mention that "a couple of the conference's members are looking to leave the ASC." Anybody speculation about what this particularly refers to?

Quote from: arktraveler on August 05, 2010, 11:32:03 PM
That's a neat article - thanks for posting the link. For them to seek the ASC would be natural. They mention that "a couple of the conference's members are looking to leave the ASC." Anybody speculation about what this particularly refers to?

Not a whole lot of other conferences for ASC members to choose from unless they want to spend an incredible amount of time and money on travel.   The SCAC will have an opening for a football-playing school in 2011, could TLU slot in?  Would mess up the SCAC's travel partners in TX, tho, unless at the same time they added someone like UDallas as has been speculated from time to time on these boards.    McMurry also seems like it could be a possibility, but they seem happy in the ASC. 

Also wonder how many D3 schools charge their students an athletic fee.   That would seem to give UNO a huge advantage in terms of available funds.   Roughly $100/year x 12000 students = $1.2 million/year.

I wonder if that's a reference to the attempts to recruit Mississippi College back into Division II.

Ron:  There budget for next year is projected at about 2.1 mil.    Approx 200 per year, about 10,000 students, and the fee is pro-rated based on number of credit hours carried.  Additionally, there is an endowment that will add a couple hundred thou per year, however, the Athletic Dept has a debt they must pay back to the general fund of close to 500 K per year for the next 10 years or so.

Even with all that and spooling up the new sports for D3, money should be OK, helped along by plenty of staff cuts and current scholarship players saying adios to head for new pastures.

Quote from: Tacttm1 on August 06, 2010, 09:17:35 PM
Ron:  There budget for next year is projected at about 2.1 mil.    Approx 200 per year, about 10,000 students, and the fee is pro-rated based on number of credit hours carried.  Additionally, there is an endowment that will add a couple hundred thou per year, however, the Athletic Dept has a debt they must pay back to the general fund of close to 500 K per year for the next 10 years or so.

Even with all that and spooling up the new sports for D3, money should be OK, helped along by plenty of staff cuts and current scholarship players saying adios to head for new pastures.

If this goes forward, that would be a HUGE budget for D3.  I looked at UW-Whitewater, another state school with a very successful football program and around 10K full-time equivalent students.   Their annual athletic budget (http://www.uww.edu/studentaffairs/documents/feeDetails.pdf) is in the vicinity of $600K. 

Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 07, 2010, 08:13:42 PM

Quote from: Tacttm1 on August 06, 2010, 09:17:35 PM
Ron:  There budget for next year is projected at about 2.1 mil.    Approx 200 per year, about 10,000 students, and the fee is pro-rated based on number of credit hours carried.  Additionally, there is an endowment that will add a couple hundred thou per year, however, the Athletic Dept has a debt they must pay back to the general fund of close to 500 K per year for the next 10 years or so.

Even with all that and spooling up the new sports for D3, money should be OK, helped along by plenty of staff cuts and current scholarship players saying adios to head for new pastures.

If this goes forward, that would be a HUGE budget for D3.  I looked at UW-Whitewater, another state school with a very successful football program and around 10K full-time equivalent students.   Their annual athletic budget (http://www.uww.edu/studentaffairs/documents/feeDetails.pdf) is in the vicinity of $600K. 

It's less impressive, however, when you consider the geographical isolation of the University of New Orleans. Every single road game, meet, or match played by a UNO team against D3 competition will require considerable travel, which means considerable expense.

Looks like you're right and I'm wrong  :-[

I found a link to NCAA D3 athletic budgets in '04-'05 and $2.1M would be in the top quartile ... so decent but not huge.  UMHB and McMurry, two of the ASC schools that UNO will end competing against, were both in the $2M ballpark back then. 

Ron, Could you please say that again??   (It happens so rarely that I want to be sure!!!, being right, that is.  LOL  LOL ;)



When all of the conference switch talk began, one of the reasons given by the Chancellor was that UNO could go from a low ranking funded D1 to a higher funded D3 program.

With new talk about possible soccer/football facilities, that budget will get a serious cut with dollars allocated to pay for those new facilities.  (years away, at best)

Here is a sport by sport update:
http://www.neworleans.com/sports/uno/449906-wild-summer-update-on-uno-athletic-teams.html

Travel is a huge portion of the budget for McMurry and UMHB. Every road trip for McMurry (except HSU and HPU) is at least 200 miles. Basketball, men and women both, require at least 16 nights on the road in a season.

Men's and women's soccer have about 10-12 nights on the road.  Baseball maybe 10-14 nights.  Volleyball can be that many.

Over on the ASC board, Ralph Turner posted a link to the DOE's site which contains info on athletic spending, which can be found at http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/.  Looking at the data for 2008, here are the top 10 football-playing D3 schools in terms of overall athletic spending:

Birmingham Southern College   AL   9056034
Christopher Newport University   VA   8085563
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute   NY   7053296
St Lawrence University   NY   6792453
Colorado College   CO   6716432
Ithaca College   NY   5091956
Union College   NY   5006609
Middlebury College   VT   4926939
Williams College   MA   4891702
University of Rochester   NY   4843064

Several of the top ten schools compete in the D1 level for Ice Hockey and a corresponding women's sport, though only two (RPI and Colorado College) are allowed to offer scholarships.  Still, the sheer fact that they are playing at the D1 level means costs will be much higher than most other sports.

Of interest to this discussion is that the #1 school on the list, Birmingham Southern, was in the midst of their transition from D1 to D3 when these stats were taken.

NCAA feature (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2010+news+stories/august+latest+news/five+years+after+katrina%2C+institutions+show+resilience) about UNO and Tulane 5 yrs after Katrina.

http://www.unoprivateers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=16700&ATCLID=204983659

UNO will play a 10-game club football slate in 2010.

5 home games (split between two different stadiums in New Orleans' City Park) and 5 on the road (away games in Ohio (2), Georgia, and Wisconsin, and the Midwest Club Football Conference championship weekend in Indiana).

Two games (away at Edward Waters, home against Concordia (AL)) are against "official" school teams.  The Privateers took heavy losses on the road at both schools last season in a 5-3 season (5-1 against club teams).

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2010/08/university_of_new_orleans_char.html

Article in today's Times Picayune on UNO's plan for the transition and the addition of football, women's soccer and women's golf by next season.

Latest Tweet from the UNO Athletic Department:

ATH: "East Campus Sports Facility" mtg this afternoon. UNO could be 1st NOLA (Tulane) on-campus FB game since 11/30/74.

Two UNO football-related Tweets today from the athletic department:

ATH: Can you believe that on Friday, we'll be exactly a year away from 9/3/11? A year from today, final walk-throughs for the opener. #d3fb

ATH: 2 reps of the UNO media relations office to observe the #Tulane football game ops tonight at the Superdome for future prep. #d3fb

Hmm.  Methinks attending a D1 game someplace like the Superdome is NOT a good prep for entry into D3.     :D

Ron:  I think they are going to observe game day activities to get some idea of what needs to be done.  Obviously things will be different for UNO, but their Media/SID dept probably has never been exposed to footaball matters and the Coach is an Admissions Director, so his understanding is limited, as well.

Persoanlly, I think putting our tweeets about next year opening activity is a little early.....

The "media relations office" at many D3 schools consists of one guy who may have a student intern to help if he is lucky.   They really would be better served by going to a Louisiana College game, because there is absolutely a huge difference in scope and in expectations.   

While it's good to get exposed to what will be needed for football, it's kind of like preparing to maintain and fly a Piper Cub by watching American Airlines service a 747.  They both fly, certainly, but ...

Yeah, but it is a Tulane game!! ;)

Quote from: Tacttm1 on September 02, 2010, 10:36:50 PM
Yeah, but it is a Tulane game!! ;)

Tulane envy?

The same Green Wave that considered moving to D-III about 3 7 years ago?

http://feedback.tulane.edu/june07.shtml

Or here in 2003?

https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/hschein/www/readings/athletics/Tulane2.htm

---

Correction -- Hat tip to Ron Boerger...

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 03, 2010, 12:12:55 AM
Or in 2003?

Ugh, don't get me started on that one again!

FYI, Ralph, your "June07" link takes you to comments made June 7, 2003.   

And I think Tacttm1 was saying that since it's Tulane, it might as well be D3.   ;)

I think it was more to see how the Tulane SID and media relations department works with the local New Orleans media on game day. 

While the scope of the program certainly won't be near that of Tulane, they will be dealing with (and wanting coverage from) the same media outlets in New Orleans.

The comparison with La College probably makes sense on the surface.  But I'm not sure of the extent of media coverage of LC football in central Louisiana - certainly the Alexandria paper, a local radio station and a television station or two.

At least initially, despite being D-III, the hope is that UNO football is a decent enough story to be covered by all of the local news stations (radio and TV) in the New Orleans market, the Times Picayune and a number of much smaller localized papers.

So I don't think it was such a bad idea to go see how Tulane runs its press box.  And I think that's all this was.

The tweet was a tease to build interest.

Quote from: Slidell on September 03, 2010, 11:57:15 AM
I think it was more to see how the Tulane SID and media relations department works with the local New Orleans media on game day. 

While the scope of the program certainly won't be near that of Tulane, they will be dealing with (and wanting coverage from) the same media outlets in New Orleans.

The comparison with La College probably makes sense on the surface.  But I'm not sure of the extent of media coverage of LC football in central Louisiana - certainly the Alexandria paper, a local radio station and a television station or two.

At least initially, despite being D-III, the hope is that UNO football is a decent enough story to be covered by all of the local news stations (radio and TV) in the New Orleans market, the Times Picayune and a number of much smaller localized papers.

So I don't think it was such a bad idea to go see how Tulane runs its press box.  And I think that's all this was.

The tweet was a tease to build interest.

In Louisiana/at UNO, the key will be to get game stories with the names of local players to the small papers.

Town Talk in Alexandria/Pineville is a very good local paper.  They do a good job for LC.

Ralph is right.  It is a rare media outlet in the big city that will cover a D3 school.   Local high schools will usually get more coverage than non-scholarship college sports.

Birmingham-Southern has seen their coverage drop off the face of the earth since going to D3.  Trinity, which never got much in San Antonio (even when they were consistently a top ten team), got less last year when D2 Incarnate Word started their football team and gets even less now that Larry Coker has shown up to run a Division I program at UT San Antonio ... starting NEXT year. 

New Orleans is a different enough sort of town that you may be the exception to the rule - let's hope!

1)  I was just making an anti-Tulane comment!!   in good humor of course.

2)  UNO had to fight to get more than a blurb of coverage during D1 days so I don't thenk the future will be much different after the initial hoopla.

They don't even publish local players who get nominated for awards, watch lists, POTW, etc from other than D1, with very few exceptions.

The extent of the media coverage is the big unknown.  I think that is part of what was behind the UNO guys sitting in on the Tulane pressbox.

As Tacttm1 pointed out, UNO has always struggled for media coverage.  There is a feeling that, despite the drop to D-III, adding football will be enough of a "story" to warrant some coverage.

Now, will it be a small little paragraph in the Picayune's "State Wrap-Up" section after every game (LC gets that much)?  Or will they provide some in-depth coverage somewhere in between the state wrap-up and the extensive coverage that LSU and Tulane get?

I think most UNO fans expect it to be closer to nothing than to the coverage that LSU and Tulane get.  But a little bit more (game previews, game accounts, stats and a pic or two) would be nice.

The sports director at the local ABC affiliate has always been a "friend of UNO" and has consistently provided the best coverage.  Will that continue for a D-III program?

A lot of questions.  But also a lot of opportunities.  I think UNO is doing the smart thing by trying to get out in front of that.

As I read the Shreveport papers, I thought that LSU coverage dramatically overshadowed Centenary's, even in CC's home town.

The trick that clever D-III schools grasp and less clever D-III schools don't, is that you need to act as your own media service.  Your website needs to be a newspaper, TV station, radio, and social networking site all rolled into one.  Of course, you still pursue traditional media coverage, but you consider their coverage to be a bonus which drives traffic back to your site and not the ultimate goal.

I've seen many D-III schools bang their head against the wall for years trying to get mainstream media coverage that they will never get.  The schools that really succeed in this area are the ones that deliver the content their fans want directly to them.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on September 07, 2010, 12:55:37 PM
As I read the Shreveport papers, I thought that LSU coverage dramatically overshadowed Centenary's, even in CC's home town.

LSU coverage overshadows both Tulane and UNO in the Picayune.  Heck, there were times when LSU coverage seemed to overshadow the Saints!  (Pre-Lombardi trophy days  ;D )

UNO's club team opened its season with a 39-20 victory over South Alabama's club team in front of 2,639 fans at Pan American Stadium in New Orleans.

Great crowd and a fun game.

It's assumed that next year's inaugural D-III squad will be made up of many of these players.

UNO's Chancellor Tim Ryan was fired today!!

Now the athletic fans (some) are clammoring for a recision of the move to D3 and a rapid transition back to D1.

My understanding is that the NCAA wouldn't look to kindly on a University dropping from a conference, petitioning for transition to D3 and then saying 'nevermind' and returning to the prior situation.  I beleive this to hold even if the financial woes confronting the UNO athletic department were somehow solved.

Can any of the more experienced and knowledgeable members tell me if that has ever happened before and what your opinion is on this?

Winston-Salem State did this just recently but that was a move from Division II to Division I and they realized that the finances just weren't there. With a lot of Division I not liking teams like NJIT and Houston Baptist joining their ranks because of the supposed (and sometimes actual) inferority of the programs the NCAA was willing to let Winston-Salem State go back to Division II. I don't know how this situation would pan out if New Orleans tries to go back to Division I.

If New Orleans does return to Division I what happens to their football team? The athletic department down there has been trumpetting the start of intercollegiate football for the past few weeks. If they were moving to Division III for financial reasons then there is no way they could support a Division I football team along with the rest of their programs. Even if it did join the non-scholarship Pioneer League.

There is a lot of uncertainty right now and the athletic department has to sort through it once the committee appointed by the LSU board to oversee operations in the interim gets up to speed.

My thoughts?  It's unlikely that we can just simply reverse course and go backt o D-I.  Regardless of Ryan's actions or motives, there was a huge problem with the way our athletic department was managed and it was bleeding red ink.  To comply with D-I requirements, six sports had to be added.  As it is, three have to be added for next year in D-III.

I think we will continue our reclassification process, add football, women's soccer and women's golf.

I think we will remain in D-III for the foreseeable future and any future moves to reclassify will be up to our next permanent chancellor.

But that's just one fan's opinion.

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on September 17, 2010, 11:49:31 AM
Winston-Salem State did this just recently but that was a move from Division II to Division I and they realized that the finances just weren't there. With a lot of Division I not liking teams like NJIT and Houston Baptist joining their ranks because of the supposed (and sometimes actual) inferority of the programs the NCAA was willing to let Winston-Salem State go back to Division II. I don't know how this situation would pan out if New Orleans tries to go back to Division I.

If New Orleans does return to Division I what happens to their football team? The athletic department down there has been trumpetting the start of intercollegiate football for the past few weeks. If they were moving to Division III for financial reasons then there is no way they could support a Division I football team along with the rest of their programs. Even if it did join the non-scholarship Pioneer League.

Travel in the Pioneer League (from isolated New Orleans) is a budget buster.

""I think we will remain in D-III for the foreseeable future and any future moves to reclassify will be up to our next permanent chancellor.""

Based on remarks made by others here months ago, I think the 'forseeable future' would be nigh on 8-10 years, esp. since UNO isn't even officially D3 quite yet.

It wil take a couple years just for the Athletic Department to stabilize during this transition and sports addition period.

Slidell - glad you are such a reasoned (i didn't say seasoned!!) and passionate supporter!

I hope if UNO continues its Division III move it is done with full intentions of being a Division III school going forward - not as a stopping ground or some place to cool their jets while they get their finances in order.  Division III deserves better than that.

UNO appears as the September 17, 2011 opponent on Birmingham Southern's football schedule.

http://www.bscsports.net/schedule.aspx?path=football&schedule=92&

The athletic department has been dropping hints about football next year and the schedule, etc. But this is the first confirmation that we will be playing as an NCAA program next season.

I was told several weeks ago that Huntingdon will be playing at New Orleans next season. Not sure of the date but looking at the future schedule that was on HC's web site this summer before they redid the website, it would have to be either 10/29 or 11/12 unless one of the other games that was on the schedule has changed. Below are the nine games that were listed before it was lost to the new website.

2011 Football Season

Date    Opponent    Location    Time
9/3     at Maryville       Maryville, Tenn.   TBA
9/10    at Birmingham-Southern    Birmingham, Ala.    TBA
9/17    vs. Faulkner        Samford Stadium    TBA
9/24    vs. Hampden-Sydney        Samford Stadium    TBA
10/1    at Wesley    Dover, Del.    TBA
10/8    vs. Wittenberg    Samford Stadium    TBA
10/15   at Trinity    San Antonio, Texas    TBA
10/22   vs. Webber International    Samford Stadium    TBA
11/5    vs. LaGrange    Samford Stadium    TBA

We have listed on our site an article and also have an embedded video. 

UNO is facing additional money issues.  Can't imagine what the athletic department is facing, this is a complete mess at this time. Enrollment figures at UNO are going down as well...really do feel sorry for the student-athletes. 

www.theseniorreports.com/naiadiv3.htm

Quote from: radiodavel on December 15, 2010, 09:40:32 AM
We have listed on our site an article and also have an embedded video.  

UNO is facing additional money issues.  Can't imagine what the athletic department is facing, this is a complete mess at this time. Enrollment figures at UNO are going down as well...really do feel sorry for the student-athletes.  

www.theseniorreports.com/naiadiv3.htm

From D-3 and football to D-2 and no football...

Thanks for the link.

Travel for D-3 would be a real budget nightmare.  They are three hours from Mississippi College and 3.5 hours from Louisiana College.

I don't think that any one in the ASC wanted UNO.  (UTD may have been cordial and not refused the request to mentor/advise UNO.)

UNO can get by with 5 men's and women's sports in D-2.  The ASC was offering 8 sports for men and women.

There is alot that will take place before a decision to reverse the D3 plan is made, namely, a new Chancellor should be in place by April/May, alternative funding being discussed and State Legislative involvement.


I'm not saying it won't happen, but it is no slam dunk.

It's tough for urban, commuter schools to really get students and others to rally around their sports teams. It can be done, but it is difficult. Most of them do without football because of the cost.

UNO official response to The Senior Reports about possible move to D2... www.theseniorreports.com/naiadiv3.htm

they have been doing the study...

Quote from: radiodavel on December 31, 2010, 05:11:46 PM
UNO official response to The Senior Reports about possible move to D2... www.theseniorreports.com/naiadiv3.htm

they have been doing the study...

The "study" includes ...

"questions covering topics such as sport sponsorship, compliance, conference affiliation, facilities, budgets and departmental infrastructure."

Yep, Jason Plotkin (UNO's Director of Athletic Media Relations) gave a pretty generic answer.  The D-II's in that region would be the Gulf South Conference, which is losing its Arkansas teams to a new conference forming with schools in Oklahoma and Arkansas.  If UNO had Football, they would be a lot more attractive to the Gulf South.

Thanks for the links.

Here (http://www.neworleans.com/sports/uno/549119-uno-athletics-easy-as-i-iii-ii.html) is Mike Wagenheim's article at www.neworleans.com titled "UNO Athletics: Easy as I, III, II".

Installment #8 (http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=556417&Itemid=578) of the series, "UNO Athletics: Easy as I, III, II is a multi-part series looking at a Privateer athletic department in a state of flux" makes the case for UNO to add football as a D-1 FCS member in the Southland Conference.

Because of the expense involved, the only logical way for UNO to have football is D-3, IMHO.

UNO eyes Division II for its athletic program
interesting as this develops...
www.theseniorreports.com/naiadiv3.htm

UNO eyes Division II for its athletic program (http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2011/01/university_of_new_orleans_eyes.html)

Quote...
On July 20, the NCAA Division III management council announced that it had approved UNO to begin a multi-year reclassification process. But the analysis done by the athletic department showed UNO would have had a tough time finding regional opponents and a home conference in Division III, pushing Division II into the forefront.

Unlike Division III, which doesn't allow schools to offer scholarships to athletes, Division II offers a limited amount of scholarships. But Sapera said UNO likely wouldn't offer the full allotment of scholarships allowed in Division II by next season.

Also, UNO will continue plans to implement its football program in Division II, but the football program wouldn't begin play next season.

Ralph, you will have to find a new board when McMurry joins D2....

by the way folks, keep an eye open for UNO happenings, we hear more info is coming soon..also, in our opinion and tlaking with our sources UNO (if UNO officials approve it) will have no problem getting in D2

www.theseniorreports.com

Quote from: radiodavel on January 27, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
Ralph, you will have to find a new board when McMurry joins D2....by the way folks, keep an eye open for UNO happenings, we hear more info is coming soon..also, in our opinion and tlaking with our sources UNO (if UNO officials approve it) will have no problem getting in D2

www.theseniorreports.com

I will be a more objective observer and poster on these boards.   ;)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2011, 10:40:23 AM

Quote from: radiodavel on January 27, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
Ralph, you will have to find a new board when McMurry joins D2....by the way folks, keep an eye open for UNO happenings, we hear more info is coming soon..also, in our opinion and tlaking with our sources UNO (if UNO officials approve it) will have no problem getting in D2

www.theseniorreports.com

I will be a more objective observer and poster on these boards.   ;)

I knew you couldn't go "cold turkey" on us! +k

Quote from: Slidell on October 06, 2010, 02:20:01 PM
UNO appears as the September 17, 2011 opponent on Birmingham Southern's football schedule.

http://www.bscsports.net/schedule.aspx?path=football&schedule=92&

The athletic department has been dropping hints about football next year and the schedule, etc. But this is the first confirmation that we will be playing as an NCAA program next season.

Update:  BSC now is scheduled to play NAIA Ave Maria University in Fort Myers, FL on that date.   Not surprising given the incredible amount of waffling going on at UNO. 

Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 27, 2011, 03:33:07 PM

Quote from: Slidell on October 06, 2010, 02:20:01 PM
UNO appears as the September 17, 2011 opponent on Birmingham Southern's football schedule.

http://www.bscsports.net/schedule.aspx?path=football&schedule=92&

The athletic department has been dropping hints about football next year and the schedule, etc. But this is the first confirmation that we will be playing as an NCAA program next season.

Update:  BSC now is scheduled to play NAIA Ave Maria University in Fort Myers, FL on that date.   Not surprising given the incredible amount of waffling going on at UNO. 

I had noticed that LaGrange has Ave Maria on their schedule this fall. Maybe Huntingdon will be able to replace UNO with them too.

Quote from: Hawks88 on January 27, 2011, 07:38:03 PM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on January 27, 2011, 03:33:07 PM

Quote from: Slidell on October 06, 2010, 02:20:01 PM
UNO appears as the September 17, 2011 opponent on Birmingham Southern's football schedule.

http://www.bscsports.net/schedule.aspx?path=football&schedule=92&

The athletic department has been dropping hints about football next year and the schedule, etc. But this is the first confirmation that we will be playing as an NCAA program next season.

Update:  BSC now is scheduled to play NAIA Ave Maria University in Fort Myers, FL on that date.   Not surprising given the incredible amount of waffling going on at UNO. 

I had noticed that LaGrange has Ave Maria on their schedule this fall. Maybe Huntingdon will be able to replace UNO with them too.

Oh, geez, Tom Monahan's college has a football team?!  Didn't he do enough damage when he owned the Tigers (and fired Ernie Harwell)?! :o >:(

Seems to me he did enough damage just making lousy pizzas! ;D

Quote from: radiodavel on January 27, 2011, 09:59:01 AM
Ralph, you will have to find a new board when McMurry joins D2....

by the way folks, keep an eye open for UNO happenings, we hear more info is coming soon..also, in our opinion and tlaking with our sources UNO (if UNO officials approve it) will have no problem getting in D2

Nor would they have any problem getting into Division III. Their only problem is staying in Division I. :)

UNO Submits NCAA Division II Proposal to LSU Board     

has also been accepted into the Gulf South if all goes thru...

will need to add one more sport

www.theseniorreports.com/ncaad2.htm

Quote from: radiodavel on February 04, 2011, 11:33:42 AM
UNO Submits NCAA Division II Proposal to LSU Board    

has also been accepted into the Gulf South if all goes thru...

will need to add one more sport

www.theseniorreports.com/ncaad2.htm

Link (http://www.unoprivateers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=16700&ATCLID=205084487) to UNO Privateers website for the press release.

I wonder where the GSC will get the other 4-5 schools that it wants in the next 5 years.  D2 has restricted the number of schools in each class of new members from 10 down to 8.  (Shorter comes to mind, and I also think that football-playing NAIA schools are candidates.)


D3football.com (http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2011/02/uno-chooses-d2) story

Just as an update:  UNO's move to D2 has been approved by the State Board, so looks like it is off to the 2's....

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2011/03/lsu_board_of_supervisors_appro.html


As I understand it, Club Football, of which UNO was nat Champs last year, will continue with support services from the Athletic Department adn then that program should morph into a D2 program sometime around 2013/14-ish.

Quote from: Tacttm1 on March 10, 2011, 10:11:04 PM
Just as an update:  UNO's move to D2 has been approved by the State Board, so looks like it is off to the 2's....

http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2011/03/lsu_board_of_supervisors_appro.html


As I understand it, Club Football, of which UNO was nat Champs last year, will continue with support services from the Athletic Department adn then that program should morph into a D2 program sometime around 2013/14-ish.

UNO football is of great value to the Gulf South Conference.

That is very true.  The head of the Conference did quite the dog and pony at UNO and wants to see the Privateers strap up in the conference as soon as practical.

UNO-SUNO Consolidation (http://www.sportsnola.com/sports/uno/569613-consolidation-consternation-what-happens-to-athletics-at-uno-suno.html)

Gov Jindal proposes a consolidation of UNO and (NAIA) Southern University of New Orleans.

Quote...The consolidation and shift in governing systems could have a dramatic influence on UNO's athletic programs, as all eight UL System institutions compete at the NCAA Division I level. UNO, despite the haziness, has elected to move forward with a plan to reclassify from Division I status to Division II, after a track to non-scholarship Division III was halted due to a lack of an accepting conference. The Division II membership committee is scheduled to inform UNO of acceptance on April 22, mere days before the legislature goes back into session.

NCAA approves UNO's move to D-II (http://www.nola.com/uno/index.ssf/2011/04/ncaa_approves_unos_move_to_div_1.html)

FTA...

Quote...
UNO officials are finalizing membership with the Gulf South Conference. GSC Commissioner Nate Salan said the conference has informed UNO of its intent to bring the Privateers into the league.

UNO is expected to join Alabama-Huntsville, Christian Brothers, Delta State, North Alabama, Valdosta State, West Florida, West Alabama and West Georgia in the GSC. The GSC also is expected to announce further expansion for 2012-13 and beyond, with the expectation of growing to 12 members by 2014-15.

"We are excited by the opportunity to add a large public institution in a destination city, one whose facilities are top-notch and whose sports offerings align nicely with ours," Salant said in a statement released by UNO. "Obviously, we are especially pleased that by 2015, UNO will be playing football."

Gulf South Conference needs football members.

UNO had considered jettisoning their money-losing and not terribly competitive scholarship (D1) athletic programs and joining D3, but lacked the conviction to follow through and had decided to go D2.  As of this morning, that decision has been rescinded and they will stay in D1, where they can both continue to lose money and be non-competitive.  Congratulations, UNO braintrust!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/university-of-new-orleans-halts-transition-to-division-ii-will-remain-d-i/2012/03/08/gIQAESyuzR_story.html

Hmmmm....I wonder if the Sun Belt will take them back or if they'll have to scrounge for a conference.

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 10:19:43 AM
Hmmmm....I wonder if the Sun Belt will take them back or if they'll have to scrounge for a conference.

I don't remember where I read it, but it sounded like UNO is looking at trying to get into the Southland Conference.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 09, 2012, 07:54:56 AM
UNO had considered jettisoning their money-losing and not terribly competitive scholarship (D1) athletic programs and joining D3, but lacked the conviction to follow through and had decided to go D2.  As of this morning, that decision has been rescinded and they will stay in D1, where they can both continue to lose money and be non-competitive.  Congratulations, UNO braintrust!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/university-of-new-orleans-halts-transition-to-division-ii-will-remain-d-i/2012/03/08/gIQAESyuzR_story.html

What on earth could they have been thinking through this whole process. Is no one in charge?

They see the $$$ there for the D-1 basketball tourney. That and being a patsy for teams in the SEC to play for guarantee games.

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 09, 2012, 11:18:39 AM

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 10:19:43 AM
Hmmmm....I wonder if the Sun Belt will take them back or if they'll have to scrounge for a conference.

I don't remember where I read it, but it sounded like UNO is looking at trying to get into the Southland Conference.

Why does the Southland want a non-football school?

Abilene Christian University, a charter member of the Southland Conference from way, way back wants to move from D-2 to D-1 and rejoin the Southland.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2012, 02:44:05 PM

Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 09, 2012, 11:18:39 AM

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 10:19:43 AM
Hmmmm....I wonder if the Sun Belt will take them back or if they'll have to scrounge for a conference.

I don't remember where I read it, but it sounded like UNO is looking at trying to get into the Southland Conference.

Why does the Southland want a non-football school?

Abilene Christian University, a charter member of the Southland Conference from way, way back wants to move from D-2 to D-1 and rejoin the Southland.

Not all Southland schools sponsor football, and UT-SA, which just started it, is moving to the WAC. If they want to keep at 12 members there's an opening for UNO. And they may be better suited than Texas Pan-Am. However, it's still rather short sighted for UNO to think of that. I think Birmingham Southern should have been a great example for them - though with UNO now part of the Louisiana State school behemoth there may be politics involved.

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 02:43:48 PM
They see the $$$ there for the D-1 basketball tourney. That and being a patsy for teams in the SEC to play for guarantee games.

Right, but that was all there two years ago when they started this ridiclous campaign. Why go through the whole hassle to end up right where you were?

Again, I bet it's intertwined with the always-colorful world of Louisiana and New Orleans politics.

Quote from: smedindy on March 13, 2012, 03:18:03 PM
Again, I bet it's intertwined with the always-colorful world of Louisiana and New Orleans politics.

Unfortunately that is what too often happens to state universities and colleges.  They get caught up in political games that only end up hurting students.  It seems that too often administrators and trustees seem to care more about their own pocketbooks and image and not enough about the students, you know the ones paying the freight for the schools.

Quote from: Knightstalker on March 13, 2012, 03:36:24 PM

Quote from: smedindy on March 13, 2012, 03:18:03 PM
Again, I bet it's intertwined with the always-colorful world of Louisiana and New Orleans politics.

Unfortunately that is what too often happens to state universities and colleges.  They get caught up in political games that only end up hurting students.  It seems that too often administrators and trustees seem to care more about their own pocketbooks and image and not enough about the students, you know the ones paying the freight for the schools.

Speaking of which-North Central tuition going up 4% for next year :'(

Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 09, 2012, 07:54:56 AMnot terribly competitive scholarship (D1) athletic programs

FYI, before all this mess started, the baseball team made the DI NCAA regionals in 2007 and 2008 (winning the Sun Belt Tournament in 2007).

Quote from: Just Bill on March 09, 2012, 02:03:29 PMWhat on earth could they have been thinking through this whole process. Is no one in charge?

Basically, different people have been in charge.  Tim Ryan was chancellor of the school.  Athletics had largely been run on student fees and, when the size of the school dropped from 17,000 to 10,000 post-Katrina, the athletic department was producing more red ink than usual.  In the face of multiple state budget cuts, Ryan decided to go DIII.  The LSU system, which UNO was a part of, endorsed this move.  That plan involved starting DIII football in 2011.

Ryan was then fired.  The interim leadership indicated that we were unable to find any DIII conference home and made the case that we could, at least, afford DII.  They also secured a DII conference home in the Gulf South Conference.  The LSU system signed off on this proposal, too.  That plan included raising funds to start DII football by 2015.

A bill was introduced that would have merged UNO and Southern University of New Orleans (NAIA in athletics) and placed the merged university in the University of Louisiana system.  That bill was defeated and an alternative proposal emerged to just move UNO into the UL system and that passed.

All 8 other schools in the UL system are in DI.  The UL system is headed by the former president of Southeastern Louisiana University who was in charge of SLU when it restarted its football program.

The UL system indicated that a final decision would be left to the new UNO president.  Dr. Peter Fos was appointed as the new president of UNO, determined how much he would have to find in his budget to support UNO in DI and determined that a) he could do so and b) it was worth it to do so.

Dr. Fos said he can and will fund a competitive DI program (without football).  About football, he indicated he still wants to start it, but it will take $3-4M/year that he does not currently have.  Indications are that this money would come, in part, from an increased student fee and, in part, from outside sources.  In his press conference regarding DI, he indicated that football at UNO may end up pushed back a year to 2016.  In any event, it seemed clear that football at UNO in DI was part of his plan.

Rumor has it that the Southland will welcome us.  They did just add another non-football school (Oral Roberts) and are losing two schools that did not play Southland football (UTA, who has no football, and UTSA, who did not play in their league), so they may be okay with two non-football additions, particularly if they feel reasonably confident that football is coming to UNO.

Anyway, that's probably more info than y'all wanted on a school that isn't going DIII, but that's a quick recap at what's been happening at UNO since our original DIII announcement.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2012, 02:44:05 PMWhy does the Southland want a non-football school?

As noted, they're losing two schools (UTA, UTSA) that didn't play Soutland football and are adding one (ORU) that doesn't play football.  I hope the Privateers are playing football by 2016, but we probably make sense as we'd add one large market to a league that's losing two.

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 03:58:08 PMI think Birmingham Southern should have been a great example for them - though with UNO now part of the Louisiana State school behemoth there may be politics involved.

While I'd rather be DI than DIII, I would have supported my alma mater either way.  That said, the word we were getting was that no DIII conference wanted any part of UNO, a 10,000-student (hoping to return to 15,000+) public university that intended to play football (we'd already started signing games for a DIII football startup in 2011).  That's supposedly why they started looking at DII -- the GSC was invited us.

Quote from: Privateer6 on March 29, 2012, 02:00:19 PM
That said, the word we were getting was that no DIII conference wanted any part of UNO, a 10,000-student (hoping to return to 15,000+) public university that intended to play football (we'd already started signing games for a DIII football startup in 2011).

I think the school type, combined with the "vibe" that UNO really didn't want to be Division III (not just alums, etc - but the actual administration) and were just seeing it as some sort of "worst case scenario" solution and the fact that, as you indicate, the captain(s) of the ship kept changing are probably what scared Division III conferences off.  It never seemed anyone connected with UNO really understood Division III, so I think it probably works out best for all parties that it didn't happen.

Quote from: sunny on March 29, 2012, 09:33:57 PM

Quote from: Privateer6 on March 29, 2012, 02:00:19 PM
That said, the word we were getting was that no DIII conference wanted any part of UNO, a 10,000-student (hoping to return to 15,000+) public university that intended to play football (we'd already started signing games for a DIII football startup in 2011).

I think the school type, combined with the "vibe" that UNO really didn't want to be Division III (not just alums, etc - but the actual administration) and were just seeing it as some sort of "worst case scenario" solution and the fact that, as you indicate, the captain(s) of the ship kept changing are probably what scared Division III conferences off.  It never seemed anyone connected with UNO really understood Division III, so I think it probably works out best for all parties that it didn't happen.

I agree with this, and I think that it is likely that D3 conferences were leery of having UNO join in light of the unsteady and irresolute nature of the school's leadership. But the more fundamental reason, I think, why no D3 conferences came calling to have UNO join them is because the school wasn't a good fit geographically and demographically. D3 schools are thin on the ground in that part of the country -- the closest D3 schools to Nawlins are Millsaps (SAA) and Mississippi College (ASC), both three hours distant, and Louisiana College (ASC), which is three and a half hours away. The ASC, which would've been the only logical choice in terms of geography, is already spread out enough as it is; UNO would've created an even greater travel burden for the league. And, demographically, as Privateer6 said, UNO is not a good fit for schools in that part of the country. The only peer institution it would have as a 10,000+ public university would be Texas-Dallas.