Since summer is always a little slow on these boards I thought I would come up with a topic that might be interesting. Where would you like to see Division III grow? It can either be real schools you'd like to see join or it can just be a geographical area you'd like to see have more Division III representation.
The southeast would be nice. Such a great group of athletes in Georgia and Florida in multiple sports that D3 doesn't really get a piece of.
(Also great travel for big fans like myself. :))
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 02, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
The southeast would be nice. Such a great group of athletes in Georgia and Florida in multiple sports that D3 doesn't really get a piece of.
(Also great travel for big fans like myself. :))
Are there D3 type schools in the southeast? I don't think there are many NAIA schools in that area. Unless you know of some D2 schools looking to drop down. D3 does get a piece of them. Dubuque has had 50+ Florida kids at a time on their roster recently.
I would like to see small christian liberal arts schools in Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, and Illinois that are currently NAIA schools to go D3. Then Pat Coleman could say there are as many D3 schools near Minnesota as there were back in his east coast days ;)
Maryland
Maryland has 2 D1 schools (football), Maryland and Navy and 1 D1AA school, Towson. Maryland has 1 D2 school Bowie State. Maryland has 4 D3 schools (Salisbury, Frostburg, McDaniel, and starting in 2010/2011 Stevenson). Maryland is a growing state (one of the few on the east coast due to Washington DC and the growth that comes with that) and only has a few options for their kids to play D1/D1AA/D2/D3 comparatively.....Pennsylvania for instance has the entire PSAC for D2, quite a few D3 schools and Pitt, Penn State, Temple, Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, Villanova, and probably a few that I am forgetting that play D1 or D1AA football. If Maryland kids want to play football in college they often have to go out of state to do so....More D3 schools would also allow Salisbury, Frostburg, Stevenson, Wesley, etc....form/join a conference that would allow them to play games closer to home rather than having to join the Empire 8 for football for an AQ bid.
Someone--anyone--between Linfield and USC-Santa Cruz!
Quote from: doolittledog on July 02, 2010, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 02, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
The southeast would be nice. Such a great group of athletes in Georgia and Florida in multiple sports that D3 doesn't really get a piece of.
(Also great travel for big fans like myself. :))
Are there D3 type schools in the southeast? I don't think there are many NAIA schools in that area. Unless you know of some D2 schools looking to drop down. D3 does get a piece of them. Dubuque has had 50+ Florida kids at a time on their roster recently.
For Dubuque I'm assuming your talking combined all sport rosters?
Im sure that some D3 schools have Florida kids on them, but IMHO D3 carries very little weight in Alabama, Miss, and Florida etc for recruiting purposes. Georgia has good D3 pull, but not as much as it could be.
Georgia has 12 NAIAs, Florida has 10
(In comparison, some core NAIA states such as Cali, Indiana, Illinois, and MO range from about 14-22)
Do the NAIAs and D2s in the southeast have the potential to be academically and institutionally aligned with D3....no idea, but I thought this was a wish list ;)
Quote from: doolittledog on July 02, 2010, 04:45:03 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 02, 2010, 04:19:53 PM
The southeast would be nice. Such a great group of athletes in Georgia and Florida in multiple sports that D3 doesn't really get a piece of.
(Also great travel for big fans like myself. :))
Are there D3 type schools in the southeast? I don't think there are many NAIA schools in that area. Unless you know of some D2 schools looking to drop down. D3 does get a piece of them. Dubuque has had 50+ Florida kids at a time on their roster recently.
Yes, but they are D-2 and D1 FCS.
---Southern Conference (D1 FCS)
Wofford Spartanburg SC 1450 students
Furman Greenville SC 2750 students
Samford Birmingham AL 2950 undergrads
---Big South Conference (D1 FCS)
Gardner-Webb (NC) 2650 undergrads
Presbyterian Clinton SC 1200 undergrads
---South Atlantic Conference (D2)
Almost the entire conference...
http://www.thesac.com/
---The non-football Conference Carolinas
http://www.conferencecarolinas.com/landing/index
Quote from: Gargantuan Gull on July 02, 2010, 09:52:27 PM
Maryland
Maryland has 2 D1 schools (football), Maryland and Navy and 1 D1AA school, Towson. Maryland has 1 D2 school Bowie State. Maryland has 4 D3 schools (Salisbury, Frostburg, McDaniel, and starting in 2010/2011 Stevenson). Maryland is a growing state (one of the few on the east coast due to Washington DC and the growth that comes with that) and only has a few options for their kids to play D1/D1AA/D2/D3 comparatively.....Pennsylvania for instance has the entire PSAC for D2, quite a few D3 schools and Pitt, Penn State, Temple, Duquesne, Lafayette, Lehigh, Robert Morris, Villanova, and probably a few that I am forgetting that play D1 or D1AA football. If Maryland kids want to play football in college they often have to go out of state to do so....More D3 schools would also allow Salisbury, Frostburg, Stevenson, Wesley, etc....form/join a conference that would allow them to play games closer to home rather than having to join the Empire 8 for football for an AQ bid.
Forgot John Hopkins in the D3 group...
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on July 03, 2010, 01:40:35 PM
For Dubuque I'm assuming your talking combined all sport rosters?
Im sure that some D3 schools have Florida kids on them, but IMHO D3 carries very little weight in Alabama, Miss, and Florida etc for recruiting purposes. Georgia has good D3 pull, but not as much as it could be.
Georgia has 12 NAIAs, Florida has 10
(In comparison, some core NAIA states such as Cali, Indiana, Illinois, and MO range from about 14-22)
Do the NAIAs and D2s in the southeast have the potential to be academically and institutionally aligned with D3....no idea, but I thought this was a wish list ;)
Oops, my bad. I was thinking about schools that have football...and not schools that could add football. There probably are many schools that could go the D3 route in the SE. And you are correct...this is a wish list ;)
As for Dubuque, I wasn't talking all sports rosters. Dubuque, under their previous coaching staff, typically had 45-50 Florida kids on their football roster every year.
Here are football maps I was looking at.
NAIA...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Cfnaia.PNG
D2...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Cfdii.PNG
D3...http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/NCAA_Division_3_football_map.gif
Northeastern Okie State and University of Central Oklahoma are going to the Mid-America IAA.
University of the Incarnate Word in San Antonio is adding football and will join the Lone Star Conference.
There is talk of the remaining Oklahoma D-2 schools in the Lone Star Conference (Southwestern Oklahoma St, East Central, and Southeastern Okie St) joining the 6 Arkansas schools in the Gulf South Conference to form a brand new conference.
I have not heard if (independent) Oklahoma Panhandle State has been invited to join the new Arkansas-Oklahoma conference. I don't see what they bring to the table.
Based on those maps there are so few options for West Coast expansion... I didn't realize that...
No schools from Nevada or Arizona in West.
West has been losing CA schools.
Cal State East Bay - to DII
Menlo, La Sierra to NAIA
Rumors have it though most/all schools from CA for NAIA may go to DII...if true some of those schools have a better fit in DIII than DII
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 04, 2010, 11:54:25 AM
I have not heard if (independent) Oklahoma Panhandle State has been invited to join the new Arkansas-Oklahoma conference. I don't see what they bring to the table.
Automatic wins for the other teams in the conference. :D
Quote from: Gray Fox on July 04, 2010, 02:06:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 04, 2010, 11:54:25 AM
I have not heard if (independent) Oklahoma Panhandle State has been invited to join the new Arkansas-Oklahoma conference. I don't see what they bring to the table.
Automatic wins for the other teams in the conference. :D
But who wants to drive another 227 miles west of Southwestern Okie State to get them.
NAIA map (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Cfnaia.PNG).
The NAIA map does not have these teams denoted.
Source--NAIA 2009-10 Link (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_FB.pdf)
Independents -- Ohio Dominican is going to D-2 next season.
Frontier Conference -- Add Montana Western
Great Plains AC -- Add Dordt NE
Mid-South East -- Realign from the Mid-South West Cumberlands KY)
Mid-South West -- Add Faulkner, Montgomery AL
Mid-State Football Association Mideast
--No Geneva (D3) or Ohio Dominican and Urbana (D2)
--Add Marian IN.
--Re-align from the MSFA-Midwest -- Olivet Nazarene, St Xavier IL and Trinity International IL
Mid-State Football Association Midwest
--Add Grand View IA and Waldorf IA
From the NAIA map you can delete Dana College from the GPAC...that school closed their doors on July 1st after a sale of the school to investors fell through. The GPAC will also lose the NAIA national champ next year when Sioux Falls goes over to D2.
The DAC should be losing Minot St, Black Hills St, and South Dakota Mines to D2 in the next year.
Quote from: doolittledog on July 05, 2010, 12:46:48 AM
From the NAIA map you can delete Dana College from the GPAC...that school closed their doors on July 1st after a sale of the school to investors fell through. The GPAC will also lose the NAIA national champ next year when Sioux Falls goes over to D2.
The DAC should be losing Minot St, Black Hills St, and South Dakota Mines to D2 in the next year.
Jason Dannelly, the "Pat Coleman" of the NAIA equivalent of D3sports.com was a Dana alum.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 05, 2010, 03:07:36 AM
Quote from: doolittledog on July 05, 2010, 12:46:48 AM
From the NAIA map you can delete Dana College from the GPAC...that school closed their doors on July 1st after a sale of the school to investors fell through. The GPAC will also lose the NAIA national champ next year when Sioux Falls goes over to D2.
The DAC should be losing Minot St, Black Hills St, and South Dakota Mines to D2 in the next year.
Jason Dannelly, the "Pat Coleman" of the NAIA equivalent of D3sports.com was a Dana alum.
Aren't you still an alum if your school closes?
Once an alum, always an alum. In fact several schools in the midwest still have web pages run by alumni. This is especially true with the smaller schools where classmates created close relationships.
I personally think growth in the Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona area would be great for us. As anyone can see there is a significant lack of (football) programs in the area. I feel like filling this gap could really allow more unique pre-season games.
I know nothing of D-2 or NAIA but my feeble mind tells me growth here (the region) could result in some decent pulls to local College games.
Quote from: etbu27 on March 02, 2011, 11:54:30 PM
I personally think growth in the Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona area would be great for us. As anyone can see there is a significant lack of (football) programs in the area. I feel like filling this gap could really allow more unique pre-season games.
... and more unique regular- season games, too. ;)
Quote from: etbu27 on March 02, 2011, 11:54:30 PM
I personally think growth in the Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona area would be great for us. As anyone can see there is a significant lack of (football) programs in the area. I feel like filling this gap could really allow more unique pre-season games.
I know nothing of D-2 or NAIA but my feeble mind tells me growth here (the region) could result in some decent pulls to local College games.
When you are looking for growth, you gotta see what schools are out there.
To get teams into D-III, the schools have to come from somewhere. Those places include the NCCAA, NAIA and the USCAA. The only schools to reclassify to D-III from another NCAA division in the last 3-4 years are Birmingham-Southern (AL) and Centenary. Centenary will be a provisional NCAA member in year #1 of 4 and a member of the ASC next season. (I do not think that Centenary will be eligible for post-season until 2015-16.)
Frankly, there are a lot of D-1 schools that should back off their D-1 dreams.
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Frankly, there are a lot of D-1 schools that should back off their D-1 dreams.
True, but the alums scream whenever someone even thinks about moving away. So they bleed hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars a year for the 'prestige' of being D1 and getting on regional TV once in a while.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 03, 2011, 10:42:03 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Frankly, there are a lot of D-1 schools that should back off their D-1 dreams.
True, but the alums scream whenever someone even thinks about moving away. So they bleed hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars a year for the 'prestige' of being D1 and getting on regional TV once in a while.
Well, I don't the schools like Savannah State, SIU - Edwardsville, or NJIT even make the regional networks!
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Well, I don't the schools like Savannah State, SIU - Edwardsville, or NJIT even make the regional networks!
As a former athlete at Georgia Southern I can vouch for Savannah State, if they went D3 they would never have the opportunity to play GSU or schools like GSU. Though they dont get to play on TV or even really get noticed during conference (they were 30 mins away and I couldnt even tell you their conference) but they did get profile games in preseason.
I think this is a real problem we have to overcome.
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 12:55:35 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on March 03, 2011, 10:42:03 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Frankly, there are a lot of D-1 schools that should back off their D-1 dreams.
True, but the alums scream whenever someone even thinks about moving away. So they bleed hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars a year for the 'prestige' of being D1 and getting on regional TV once in a while.
Well, I don't the schools like Savannah State, SIU - Edwardsville, or NJIT even make the regional networks!
NJIT moved to D1 for their soccer and volleyball programs, the rest can't compete and they were not eligible to be grandfathered. They need to make a decision to either fully commit to D1 or drop down a division or two.
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Frankly, there are a lot of D-1 schools that should back off their D-1 dreams.
+1
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Well, I don't the schools like Savannah State, SIU - Edwardsville, or NJIT even make the regional networks!
As a former athlete at Georgia Southern I can vouch for Savannah State, if they went D3 they would never have the opportunity to play GSU or schools like GSU. Though they dont get to play on TV or even really get noticed during conference (they were 30 mins away and I couldnt even tell you their conference) but they did get profile games in preseason.
Preseason games are televised? I could see televising a non-conference game, but televising a scrimmage or an exhibition seems excessive.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2011, 06:16:50 PM
Preseason games are televised? I could see televising a non-conference game, but televising a scrimmage or an exhibition seems excessive.
No no I did mean non-conference (typically our non-conference games were all before conference). I apologize for the confusion.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2011, 06:16:50 PM
Preseason games are televised? I could see televising a non-conference game, but televising a scrimmage or an exhibition seems excessive.
Sager would be so proud of you.
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Well, I don't the schools like Savannah State, SIU - Edwardsville, or NJIT even make the regional networks!
As a former athlete at Georgia Southern I can vouch for Savannah State, if they went D3 they would never have the opportunity to play GSU or schools like GSU. Though they dont get to play on TV or even really get noticed during conference (they were 30 mins away and I couldnt even tell you their conference) but they did get profile games in preseason.
I think this is a real problem we have to overcome.
One would argue that GSU isn't a profile game. And schools like Savannah State are the tomato cans that get brought in by major programs for an easy win.
If they were in D-3 they wouldn't get noticed but the budgets would be smaller and they wouldn't necessarily be a guaranteed win fodder.
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 10:50:18 PM
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 02:08:13 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 03, 2011, 01:45:22 AM
Well, I don't the schools like Savannah State, SIU - Edwardsville, or NJIT even make the regional networks!
As a former athlete at Georgia Southern I can vouch for Savannah State, if they went D3 they would never have the opportunity to play GSU or schools like GSU. Though they dont get to play on TV or even really get noticed during conference (they were 30 mins away and I couldnt even tell you their conference) but they did get profile games in preseason.
I think this is a real problem we have to overcome.
One would argue that GSU isn't a profile game. And schools like Savannah State are the tomato cans that get brought in by major programs for an easy win.
If they were in D-3 they wouldn't get noticed but the budgets would be smaller and they wouldn't necessarily be a guaranteed win fodder.
On the other hand, smed, do we really want SEVEN HUNDRED teams in d3??! :o ;D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2011, 11:17:13 PM
On the other hand, smed, do we really want SEVEN HUNDRED teams in d3??! :o ;D
Haha it sure would make the All-Region and All-American lists even more impressive. lol
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2011, 11:17:13 PM
On the other hand, smed, do we really want SEVEN HUNDRED teams in d3??! :o ;D
Haha it sure would make the All-Region and All-American lists even more impressive. lol
And a one hundred team playoff bracket. :o
Quote from: Gray Fox on March 04, 2011, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2011, 11:17:13 PM
On the other hand, smed, do we really want SEVEN HUNDRED teams in d3??! :o ;D
Haha it sure would make the All-Region and All-American lists even more impressive. lol
And a one hundred team playoff bracket. :o
Wrong topic... that sounds like the future of DI ;)
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on March 05, 2011, 12:06:49 AM
Quote from: Gray Fox on March 04, 2011, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2011, 11:17:13 PM
On the other hand, smed, do we really want SEVEN HUNDRED teams in d3??! :o ;D
Haha it sure would make the All-Region and All-American lists even more impressive. lol
And a one hundred team playoff bracket. :o
Wrong topic... that sounds like the future of DI ;)
700 divided by 6.5 = 107.77 truncated to 107. Twenty-one byes in the first round.
We could go with a three-game bracket in the first weekend at 32 sites. ;)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2011, 12:31:10 AM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on March 05, 2011, 12:06:49 AM
Quote from: Gray Fox on March 04, 2011, 10:54:07 PM
Quote from: etbu27 on March 03, 2011, 11:33:28 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2011, 11:17:13 PM
On the other hand, smed, do we really want SEVEN HUNDRED teams in d3??! :o ;D
Haha it sure would make the All-Region and All-American lists even more impressive. lol
And a one hundred team playoff bracket. :o
Wrong topic... that sounds like the future of DI ;)
700 divided by 6.5 = 107.77 truncated to 107. Twenty-one byes in the first round.
We could go with a three-game bracket in the first weekend at 32 sites. ;)
Lol... sounds like a plan
I was sarcastically referring to the proposed 96 game playoff of DI last year as a general sports joke.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 03, 2011, 08:57:20 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2011, 06:16:50 PM
Preseason games are televised? I could see televising a non-conference game, but televising a scrimmage or an exhibition seems excessive.
Sager would be so proud of you.
Pat realizes that I can't be everywhere at once. ;)