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I've started a Google map of the tournament field to help think about possible pods:

http://g.co/maps/3zrzn

I've added all the teams who've clinched a spot, as well as these teams that seem to me to be locks:

Amherst / Middlebury (one A, one C)
Hartwick (C)
MHB (C)
MIT (A or C)
RIC (C)
Transylvania (A or C)
UW - River Falls / Whitewater (one A, one C)
Va. Wesleyan (A or C)
West Conn (C)
Wheaton (C)
Wittenberg (C)


I've added Penn. State-Harrisburg / Morrisville State (NY) and Trinity (TX) / Centre (KY) in yellow, but only 2 of the 4 will make it.  I'm also starting to add likely pool C teams (red) and marking likely hosts (green).  I'll do a few more tonight, but then I'll wait to see if there's agreement on other likely teams and hosts.

Let me know if I've made any mistakes.

This won't happen, but a Western vs. Skidmore, CSI/NYU vs. Farmingdale state pod wouldn't be bad to have at Western.    Since it sounds like we'll be in the tournament, I'm hoping we can get a home game. 

Here are my thoughts so far on possible hosts (assuming sufficient facilities):

Cabrini is a near certainty, as their numbers are excellent, and they are well situated geographically.

The Amherst/Middlebury winner is likewise a great choice.  Amherst still has a very good chance with a loss, as their numbers and location are quite favorable.

With wins, Whitewater and MIT become pretty obvious hosts.  Even with losses, they've got a decent chance.

Hope's numbers definitely put them near the top of the list, and they're within a reasonable distance from quite a few teams.  Will their isolation work against them?

River Falls' solid numbers and proximity to the Minnesota Schools and Buena Vista means they'd make a fine host, especially with a win.

Va Wesleyan will have strong numbers with a win and could host the USAC champ and a couple PA teams.  I assume the committee would try to avoid putting RMC there, probably sending them to Cabrini instead.  I think Va Wes is beyond 500 miles from the KY schools.

One of Staten Island or William Paterson will probably host.  Results vs. regionally ranked opponents might swing it in favor of WP.

Wash U has good numbers and an OK location.  If Maryville is the pool B team and within 500 miles, that might help.

As always, the Texas teams present a problem.  If Trinity wins the SCAC, I wouldn't't be surprised to see Trinity vs. the ASC champ, with the winner going to MHB.

With only 2 West Coast teams, 2 flight are required unless both get byes, so they don't have to play each other.  Still, Whitworth may have earned the chance to host a round, so flying CMS up there may make sense.

I'm sure I've overlooked someone, and I'm not going to add any more hosts to the map before we get more tournament results and other people weigh in with thoughts on likely hosts.  Remaining hosts will probably depend on who ends up getting the final few pool C bids.  As an F&M fan, I'd love to see them host, but their SOS is low, and I don't know if it will make sense to have another pod so close to Cabrini.

Here is the official mileage calculation device from the NCAA. Any other mileage number you find doesn't matter. This is the one that counts...

https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

Thanks Just Bill.  I was just thinking about this.  Now I don't have to look for it again.  :) +1

Quote from: fritzdis on February 26, 2012, 02:27:29 AM
I've started a Google map of the tournament field to help think about possible pods:

http://g.co/maps/3zrzn

I've added all the teams who've clinched a spot, as well as these teams that seem to me to be locks:

Amherst / Middlebury (one A, one C)
Hartwick (C)
MHB (C)
MIT (A or C)
RIC (C)
Transylvania (A or C)
UW - River Falls / Whitewater (one A, one C)
Va. Wesleyan (A or C)
West Conn (C)
Wheaton (C)
Wittenberg (C)


I've added Penn. State-Harrisburg / Morrisville State (NY) and Trinity (TX) / Centre (KY) in yellow, but only 2 of the 4 will make it.  I'm also starting to add likely pool C teams (red) and marking likely hosts (green).  I'll do a few more tonight, but then I'll wait to see if there's agreement on other likely teams and hosts.

Let me know if I've made any mistakes.

fritzdis - great job on this map for the NCAA tourney teams! k+

There will be one Pool B team selected and it is probably going to be Maryville, TN

We will know the situation in Texas after the SCAC championship.  Let's assume that Centre wins.

With four travel orphans, might we see...

Whitworth hosting CMS on Thursday.

UMHB hosting a Thursday night first round game,

and then the Whitworth/CMS winner and the Texas winner meeting somewhere?

That would take four travel orphans and only have 2 flights.  Worthy teams would get to host a playoff game (UMHB and Whitworth).

Nice work on the map, fritzdis.

Quote from: fritzdis on February 26, 2012, 05:42:46 AM

Hope's numbers definitely put them near the top of the list, and they're within a reasonable distance from quite a few teams.  Will their isolation work against them?

Hope has hosted before.  I have a preliminary list with 15 teams that are within the 500 mile radius/ 3 of those are probably hosts but those aren't necessarily locks to host either.  Depending on a result today and the Pool C's that could grow to 17 or 18.

SCAC Final:  Trinity TX 61 Centre 50

Geography might hamper Hope if they were one of the last few teams deserving to host, but they'll go into the tournament as one of the top two or three overall "seeds", so the committee will give them every opportunity to possibly host.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2012, 12:26:21 PM
We will know the situation in Texas after the SCAC championship.  Let's assume that Centre wins.

With four travel orphans, might we see...

Whitworth hosting CMS on Thursday.

UMHB hosting a Thursday night first round game,

and then the Whitworth/CMS winner and the Texas winner meeting somewhere?

That would take four travel orphans and only have 2 flights.  Worthy teams would get to host a playoff game (UMHB and Whitworth).

Another option might be Trinity @ UMHB and CMS flown in to face the ASC winner (@ UMHB); and flying Whitworth to Minnesota or Wisconsin.

Ypsi,

That's what happened in 07 with Whitworth going to St. Louis (Wash U) and Occidental heading to Mississippi College. Of course neither team was ranked as highly as CMS and Whitworth are this year. I think that gets Whitworth at least one home game, most likely the 1st round matchup with CMS in Spokane.

The map (http://g.co/maps/3zrzn (http://g.co/maps/3zrzn)) should now have all the pool As.  I've added a pool B candidate (Maryville), a couple more possible pool C teams (Hobart, St. Mary's) likely to at least be on the table at the end, and several really good host candidates (Amherst, Hope, MIT, MHB because of geography).  This puts me at 60 teams on the map.  I'll try to add a few more possible Cs to get over 62.  Who are the best candidates not yet on the map?

Here are the conference winners...Pool A except for the GSAC, I believe.

Region	CONFERENCE	TEAM
East	AMCC	Medaille
South	ASC	McMurry
Mid-Atlantic	CAC	York (Pa)
Mid-Atlantic	CC	Franklin & Marshall
Northeast	CCC	Endicott
Midwest	CCIW	North Central
Mid-Atlantic	CSAC	Cabrini
Atlantic	CUNYAC	Staten Island
East	E8	Ithaca
Northeast	GNAC	Albertus Magnus
South	GSAC	Maryville (TN)
Midwest	HCAC	Rose-Hulman
West	IIAC	Buena Vista
Atlantic	LAND	Scranton
Northeast	LEC	Eastern Connecticut
East	LL	Skidmore
Mid-Atlantic	MACC	Messiah
Mid-Atlantic	MACF	Misericordia
Northeast	MASCAC	Salem State
Great Lakes	MIAA	Hope
West	MIAC	St. Thomas
Midwest	MWC	Carroll College
Northeast	NAC	Castleton State
Midwest	NATHCON	Edgewood
Great Lakes	NCAC	Wooster
East	NEAC	Morrisville State
Northeast	NECC	Becker
Northeast	NESCAC	Amherst
Northeast	NEWMAC	MIT
Atlantic	NJAC	William Paterson
West	NWC	Whitworth
Great Lakes	OAC	Capital
South	ODAC	Virginia Wesleyan
Great Lakes	PrAC	Bethany
South	SCAC	Trinity (TX)/Centre
West	SCIAC	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
Atlantic	SKY	Farmingdale State
Midwest	SLIAC	Westminster (Mo)
East	SUNYAC	Oswego State
Midwest	UAA	Washington U.
West	UMAC	Northwestern
South	USAC	Christopher Newport
West	WIAC	River Falls

As #1 in the West, Whitworth deserves and home game, probably as a result of the bye.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2012, 05:36:42 PM
As #1 in the West, Whitworth deserves and home game, probably as a result of the bye.

So do you send CMS to a 4 team sectional (let's say Texas) and then fly the winner of an upper midwest game, where you can bus the teams in round one, to Spokane (maybe a UW-somebody v Gustavus/St Thomas)?

In years past the 1st round bye was set up nicely by having two SoCal teams in the tourney, but this year there doesn't seem to be a scenario that makes a ton of $$ sense...

I see a possibility of both Whitworth and CMS flying into two different 4 team pods.  The two byes being used for the 2 highest seeds in the tournament, whoever they happen to be.

My guess is this: The committee has two byes with which to play, since it's a 62-team field. They use one bye in Texas, turning the McMurry/Trinity (TX)/Mary Hardin-Baylor trio into a triad pod. And they use the other bye in Spokane, using Whitworth, CMS, and a third team that's flown in (could be from anywhere, really) as the other triad pod.

There is no conceivable way that the committee can avoid two plane trips in the bracket's travel itinerary. There's two teams on the west coast, and they aren't within bus distance of each other, or of anybody else. Therefore, since you're going to have to have two teams fly, anyway, why not reward the team that will most likely be the West #1 in the final regional ranking (since current #1 UWW lost the WIAC tourney title game today to UWRF) by giving them the bye and the Saturday-night host privilege for one of the triad pod championships?

The NCAA distance tool puts Birmingham-Southern to Wash U at 499 miles.  If BSC makes the field, I think Wash U gets a great boost to their hosting chances (which are good already).

Quote from: sac on February 26, 2012, 06:07:51 PM
I see a possibility of both Whitworth and CMS flying into two different 4 team pods.  The two byes being used for the 2 highest seeds in the tournament, whoever they happen to be.

Last year was the first year where Whitworth would have been considered one of the "2 highest seeds" in the tournament. So the bye they received in years past was simply for $$ and geographical reasons.

I would love nothing more than to see Whitworth get a bye and a 2nd round home game...but being a fan of a WAY out West team, I'm understandably skeptical

A (creative) two flight solution...

CMS to Belton TX for a four-team bracket with McMurry, Trinity and UMHB. (TU had played CMS earlier in the season and McMurry and UIMHB are in the same conference).  (One flight)

Maryville TN to B-SC on Thursday night and the winner to Whitworth on Saturday night!

Here's a new publicly editable (I think) map with different colors for each pod:

http://g.co/maps/nbbmw (http://g.co/maps/nbbmw)

The pins indicate hosts (11 so far).  There are only 7 colors available, so I've had to reuse them, but I tried to separate them enough to avoid confusion.  The blue and red icons with dots are not yet assigned.  There still needs to be 1 more pool C team, likely from the NE.

I haven't done much in the NE, as the possibilities are almost endless.  Aside from Texas, I think I managed to avoid conference foes in the same pod in the GL, MW, W, and S.  Little consideration was given so far to seeding (aside from hosts), and none was given to how the pods might set up sectionals.

<clap> <clap> <clap> <clap>

Well done NCAA on a terrific bracket. :)

I agree. Regions are fair and locations make sense. I think they did a great job

Why did I let you guys convince me something other than a 2007 repeat would happen for Whitworth?? My dreams have been shattered...

Quote from: (509)Rat on February 27, 2012, 01:04:50 PM
Why did I let you guys convince me something other than a 2007 repeat would happen for Whitworth?? My dreams have been shattered...

I think Alaska Airlines flies to Austin from Spokane (via Seattle).  Do it!  Good luck to the Pirates in Texas.

Quote from: sac on February 27, 2012, 12:27:42 PM
<clap> <clap> <clap> <clap>

Well done NCAA on a terrific bracket. :)

Of course, I strongly disagree  ;D

I am surprised that NYU who lost 3 of their last 5, got an at-large bid.  Stockton goes 4-1 down the stretch and has a tougher schedule and doesn't get in..

Quote from: njachoopsfan on February 27, 2012, 02:01:23 PM
I am surprised that NYU who lost 3 of their last 5, got an at-large bid.  Stockton goes 4-1 down the stretch and has a tougher schedule and doesn't get in..

Last 5 games is not a criterion for the tourney.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2012, 02:20:09 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on February 27, 2012, 02:01:23 PM
I am surprised that NYU who lost 3 of their last 5, got an at-large bid.  Stockton goes 4-1 down the stretch and has a tougher schedule and doesn't get in..

Last 5 games is not a criterion for the tourney.

I would dispute Richard Stockton playing a tougher schedule than NYU as well.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2012, 02:20:09 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on February 27, 2012, 02:01:23 PM
I am surprised that NYU who lost 3 of their last 5, got an at-large bid.  Stockton goes 4-1 down the stretch and has a tougher schedule and doesn't get in..

Last 5 games is not a criterion for the tourney.

But isn't strength of schedule.  They even made a not of that on the selection show what NYU's was not strong ..  So how you finish down the stretch has absolutely no bearing on selection to the tournament.

Stockton lost most of their games early in the season, losing 4 of their first 5 games and then went 18-4.   NYU started strong but didn't play well down the stretch.   It may not be an official criteria but losing 3 of 5 and 5 of 10 has to be considered when handing out bids.

Just sayin...

You need to look at the entire body of work. I don't think the NCAA's SOS is really a good measure of, say, strength of schedule. But that's just me.

NYU - 29th in Massey, 87th in SOS
Richard Stockton - 78th in Massey, 140th in SOS

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
You need to look at the entire body of work. I don't think the NCAA's SOS is really a good measure of, say, strength of schedule. But that's just me.

Right, but it's still the criteria they use.  I thought, for most of the year, that Stockton was better than their record.  I thought the schedule was pretty tough, especially early on.  They lost more than they should have, but they played well in a conference that was pretty rough on each other this year.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2012, 06:56:39 PM

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
You need to look at the entire body of work. I don't think the NCAA's SOS is really a good measure of, say, strength of schedule. But that's just me.

Right, but it's still the criteria they use.  I thought, for most of the year, that Stockton was better than their record.  I thought the schedule was pretty tough, especially early on.  They lost more than they should have, but they played well in a conference that was pretty rough on each other this year.

But explain that 140th ranked schedule, though? That's good, not outstanding, especially compared to some other bubble teams.

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 07:01:34 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2012, 06:56:39 PM

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
You need to look at the entire body of work. I don't think the NCAA's SOS is really a good measure of, say, strength of schedule. But that's just me.

Right, but it's still the criteria they use.  I thought, for most of the year, that Stockton was better than their record.  I thought the schedule was pretty tough, especially early on.  They lost more than they should have, but they played well in a conference that was pretty rough on each other this year.

But explain that 140th ranked schedule, though? That's good, not outstanding, especially compared to some other bubble teams.

Was that 140 based on the NCAA numbers or Massey?  The NCAA only cares about their own numbers.  If it was the NCAA numbers, then it's it a bit questionable.

To me, looking at who got in and who was left out, it seems like the regional committees put more emphasis on the SOS number and games against ranked opponents, while the national committee seemed to give a little extra weight to in-region wins - at least in some of the last spots.

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
You need to look at the entire body of work. I don't think the NCAA's SOS is really a good measure of, say, strength of schedule. But that's just me.

NYU - 29th in Massey, 87th in SOS
Richard Stockton - 78th in Massey, 140th in SOS

The Massey ratings have margin of victory included so it's not really a fair comparison to the NCAA SOS figures

Those were Massey numbers.

Quote from: augie_superfan on February 27, 2012, 07:12:47 PM

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 06:49:36 PM
You need to look at the entire body of work. I don't think the NCAA's SOS is really a good measure of, say, strength of schedule. But that's just me.

NYU - 29th in Massey, 87th in SOS
Richard Stockton - 78th in Massey, 140th in SOS

The Massey ratings have margin of victory included so it's not really a fair comparison to the NCAA SOS figures

You can use the BCS version found under the "more" tab, which takes out margin of victory. 

Stockton # 101
NYU  #39

I think my point always has been that the NCAA's SOS calculation isn't really equivalent to a true SOS, and I know the NCAA uses their version, but I prefer a method that adds in more performance metrics.

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 07:23:20 PM
I think my point always has been that the NCAA's SOS calculation isn't really equivalent to a true SOS, and I know the NCAA uses their version, but I prefer a method that adds in more performance metrics.

Right, but so long as the numbers are in-region only, they're going to be skewed.

I'm also part neanderthal in that I trust my own instincts about teams (informed by statistics) in many cases.  It's easier for me to accept a loss the first weekend of the season or at a tournament over Christmas break than it is for the computers to quantify those things.

That's just one example, and applies typically only to losses, but there are others.

I think, based on your offering of last five games data, that you want the teams who are playing best at tournament time to be there.  I agree.

It's why I like Stockton.  I think they played a tough schedule and rounded into form.  NYU was wildly inconsistent and may not actually have played a great schedule (verdict is still out on just how good the UAA is this season).

Still, the NCAA could care less about any of it.  They want numbers to run the show.

You say they played a tough schedule, but the metrics don't match it compared to NYU.

Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2012, 07:34:20 PM

I think my point always has been that the NCAA's SOS calculation isn't really equivalent to a true SOS, and I know the NCAA uses their version, but I prefer a method that adds in more performance metrics.

Using efficiency for my fan poll voting.  NYU was in the top 25 all winter,  Richard Stockton was not really even close.


From the data I used, the 6 "best" teams in order, to not make the field were:

Augustana
Hampden-Sydney**  Had a massive blowout win that probably skewed things a little
Whitman
Lake Forest
Emory
Williams

Just a shout out to Dave McHuge and Pat Coleman on a very informative Hoopsville tonight. Only my second time, (other when Coach Colbert of Keene was interviewed).   Nice job giving all quads and pods within some commentary, and I liked Dave's end comments re info. transparency from NCAA committees.  If there is nothing to hide, there is no imaginable reason why we, the D3 community, (Daves terminology), should not be able to examine the final regional rankings and any mathematical algorithms used to set the Pool Cs and bracketing

Thank you... but you should watch more often! :)

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2012, 12:16:17 AM
Thank you... but you should watch more often! :)

Dave,
You Bet, especially now that my boys are in the thick of things!!
Very interesting, professional, and informative, presentation.
Isn't it amazing how D3 sports has come along with you guys at the helm  8-)!!!

http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/basketball-men/d3

NCAA bracket now with times listed.

Quote from: njachoopsfan on February 27, 2012, 02:01:23 PM
I am surprised that NYU who lost 3 of their last 5, got an at-large bid.  Stockton goes 4-1 down the stretch and has a tougher schedule and doesn't get in..

Couple of points:

1) Choosing the arbitrary "Last five games" cutoff makes your argument look better than it really is.  Expand that to be the last six games and now Richard Stockton is 4-2 to NYU's 3-3.  Expand it further to "February" and it's Richard Stockton at 5-2 vs. NYU at 5-3.  See how meaningless an arbitrary cutoff like that is?

2) Also worth noting is that one of those two Stockton losses "down the stretch" came at the hands of a Brooklyn team who NYU defeated in nonconference play.  Did Richard Stockton beat anyone that NYU lost to head-to-head?

(hint: the answer to that is "no" because NYU went 11-0 in nonconference play)

3) I see the point you're trying to make that early-season losses are somehow different than late-season losses...but they really aren't when you're considering the overall body of work.  A loss is a loss, whether it happened at a Christmas tournament or in February. 

4) As for the assertion that the jury is still out on just how good the UAA is this year...the top four UAA teams lost a total of five nonconference games, which is the same number that Stockton lost themselves.  Yes, most of Stockton's losses came against pretty good teams, but if we let in every team that lost eight games to "mostly good teams" the tournament would be tripled in size.

Tournament Odds


https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/tourney-odds

William Paterson better figure out how to turn their game around or they're going to be watching tomorrow's game from the stands.  They are getting spanked by Becker 60-47 3:53 left

Great night for the New England Region!

Just got back from Cabrini.  One great game and one giant joke.

Hobart and Ohio Wesleyan was awesome.  Craziest game I've seen in a while.  Hobart came out scared and OWU came out tight.  Wesleyan missed a bunch of easy shots in the first half, which kept Hobart in it.  Once they got over the nerves, they weren't too far behind, so they still had some confidence.

OWU was the better team all the way around, on the court.  Winters, the PG was spectacular.  Davis, sat quite a few minutes in both halves and really didn't get into the flow of the offense much.  The team was working so well and seemingly in control of the game, he didn't really need to do so.

Hobarts big man was held without a FG until 20 seconds left in the game.  He had made a ton of bad passes and no one could figure out why he played so many minutes.  Then, in that 20 second span, he drove the lane for two, made a steal and got fouled, hit a FT, missed the second, but then scored to take the lead.

Mike Neer, in my mind, won the game.  He simply coached a masterful performance out of an overmatched squad.  There's some real, young talent there for the future, but two games this year is an amazing success.

I don't think they have any chance to beat Cabrini tomorrow, but impressive night for Hobart.

Cabrini can play.  They've got a roster stocked with athletes that really doesn't drop off much at all from 2-10.  #1 is obviously Cory Lemons.  The man is amazing and he actually seems to give a crap this year.  They played sloppy, but against the monstrosity that was Castleton, there's not much else you could expect.

Castleton plays about 1.5 out of the five pillars of the Grinnell system.  They rotate a full five guys in and out about every 90 seconds or so.  They shoot lots of threes and run around like madmen on offense.  They do not press, although the do matchup full court (and Lemons, generally, made them look silly) and they don't send guys to the offensive boards.  They also are pretty methodical on offense.

In the end, they just didn't have height or athletes to compete with Cabrini.  The game was not nearly as close as the scoreboard indicated.  I give credit to the coach, they had to play this was to win their conference, but with the talent they had, there was a limit.  The guys played hard and they never gave up.  They cut a nearly 30 point lead to 13 with a couple minutes to go.  Castleton can be proud of their boys.

Cabrini is better than I thought and they're better than last year.  This year's team would not have lost to last year's Wooster team, for what it's worth.  I don't know if I'll make it back tomorrow, but it will be nice to see them in a "regular" game at some point to judge poise and decision-making.

Pat,Dave, Gordon
   You might want to check out a dunk attempt by Lance Brown(Wm Paterson) in the 1st half. Don't remember when cuz in the play-by-play, he didn't shoot foul shots. But he took off from near the foul line(ala Dr. J), jumped over the defender, got nearly to the rim before he got flipped head over heels. Might be a utube hilite.
   Becker started the game shooting 2 technical foul shots; didn't hear why but Wm. Paterson was wearing solid orange shirts(presumably, their road uniforms) and Becker was wearing solid blue.

Dave, hope you're fine in Ky.

Quote from: pjunito on February 29, 2012, 12:26:35 PM
Tournament Odds


https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/tourney-odds

Thats a very interesting link. Being a very anaytical person I find this fascinating. What is also intersting is that even though the odd are being spread amoung fewer teams in the second round, quite a number of teams are projected as having a weaker chance of winning the tournament. It's all about the match-ups..

#1 Hope is tied with IWU with 0:14.2 left in regulation, Hope ball.
Update: Going to OT. The two winningest programs all-time in D3 (Wittenberg and Wooster) have already advanced in this bracket; IWU is #3 on that list.
Update: Hope takes a 2-point lead when the NCAC ref crew gifts them 2 points by missing an obvious shot clock violation.
Update: Double overtime.
Update: IWU by 4 with 1:28 left in the 2nd OT. If they go to the 3rd OT, the mascots are going to have to play, unless they have foul trouble too.
Update: 0:14.7 left, IWU by 3 and they have the ball.
Update: Titans ice it at the line, and the #1 team is vanquished on their palatial home court, 108-101 (2OT).

Hey, I know Amherst men can't host next week (which means we're probably at F&M, right?)

I had heard somewhere that Whitewater might have a conflict as well, is that true?  If so, that pod is definitely at Wheaton/Edgewood, right?  The other two teams have to fly in anyway.

It'll clearly be between Middlebury and Cabrini for hosting duties.  Cabrini might have the seed advantage, but we all know Midd is better.

If WashU wins, then Witt is likely to host, right?  Woo and WashU are over 500 miles apart.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2012, 09:38:40 PM
Hey, I know Amherst men can't host next week (which means we're probably at F&M, right?)

If the bracket is laid out like a typically seeded bracket (I know that it may not be), F&M wouldn't be the next highest seed as they are on the same side of the bracket as #1 Amherst.  That would make Hartwick and Staten Island the #2/#3 seeds, and since Hartwick lost, Staten Island may be the highest seed in that bracket with the possibility of hosting.  Staten Island is also the most centrally located geographically, so I wouldn't be surprised if they hosted.  I would obviously love to see MIT host, but I dont know if they are even eligible from a capacity standpoint, although they did do some renovations this summer which may give them some outside shot.

So what seemed like a down year for the CCIW results in the pre-season #1 not even making the tournament, but the THREE teams who do all getting to the Sweet Sixteen.

Midwest bracket is all CCIW and NCAC.

I think Wooster can host now, if they are indeed the top seed remaining.

With Wooster and Witt very comparable, and Wooster having hosted a regional last year (when they weren't the highest seed remaining), my guess is that Witt gets it.  (However, as a Scots fan, I would be thrilled if I'm wrong!)

Quote from: fantastic50 on March 03, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
With Wooster and Witt very comparable, and Wooster having hosted a regional last year (when they weren't the highest seed remaining), my guess is that Witt gets it.  (However, as a Scots fan, I would be thrilled if I'm wrong!)

I dont think last year's regional will have any bearing on this year's hosting.

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 10:31:05 PM

Quote from: fantastic50 on March 03, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
With Wooster and Witt very comparable, and Wooster having hosted a regional last year (when they weren't the highest seed remaining), my guess is that Witt gets it.  (However, as a Scots fan, I would be thrilled if I'm wrong!)

I dont think last year's regional will have any bearing on this year's hosting.

Everyone on the NCAC Board seems to think Wooster has a poor chance of hosting next weekend specifically because they hosted last year... I hope they are wrong!

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2012, 10:02:46 PM

So what seemed like a down year for the CCIW results in the pre-season #1 not even making the tournament, but the THREE teams who do all getting to the Sweet Sixteen.

Still is a down year for the CCIW ... but it's rapidly improving. ;)

Quote from: Cali-Scot on March 03, 2012, 10:47:44 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 10:31:05 PM

Quote from: fantastic50 on March 03, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
With Wooster and Witt very comparable, and Wooster having hosted a regional last year (when they weren't the highest seed remaining), my guess is that Witt gets it.  (However, as a Scots fan, I would be thrilled if I'm wrong!)

I dont think last year's regional will have any bearing on this year's hosting.

Everyone on the NCAC Board seems to think Wooster has a poor chance of hosting next weekend specifically because they hosted last year... I hope they are wrong!

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think any of the hosting criteria mention things that happened in prior years.  If anything, I would think Witt's head-to-head advantage would give them the leg up over Wooster in terms of final regional rankings and hosting.

Here are our Sweet 16 teams:

Upper Left Bracket:  Eastern Connecticut vs Cabrini, Scranton vs Middlebury.  Lower Left Bracket: North Central vs Wittenberg, Illinois Weleyan vs Wooster.  Upper Right Bracket: Franklin & Marshall vs Amherst, Farmingdale State MIT vs Staten Island.  Lower Right Bracket: Whitworth vs Virginia Wesleyan, Wheaton vs UW-Whitewater.

There are some good matchups next Friday night.  Now we wait 'til tomorrow at 3:00pm.

Good luck to all the teams remaining!! :)

Sorry about that.  :-[

Quote from: mailsy on March 03, 2012, 11:19:39 PM
Here are our Sweet 16 teams:

Upper Left Bracket:  Eastern Connecticut vs Cabrini, Scranton vs Middlebury.  Lower Left Bracket: North Central vs Wittenberg, Illinois Weleyan vs Wooster.  Upper Right Bracket: Franklin & Marshall vs Amherst, Farmingdale State vs Staten Island.  Lower Right Bracket: Whitworth vs Virginia Wesleyan, Wheaton vs UW-Whitewater.

There are some good matchups next Friday night.  Now we wait 'til tomorrow at 3:00pm.

Good luck to all the teams remaining!! :)

Farmingdale State got blown out by MIT, so they will not be playing next Friday.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2012, 09:38:40 PM
Hey, I know Amherst men can't host next week (which means we're probably at F&M, right?)

I had heard somewhere that Whitewater might have a conflict as well, is that true?  If so, that pod is definitely at Wheaton/Edgewood, right?  The other two teams have to fly in anyway.

It'll clearly be between Middlebury and Cabrini for hosting duties.  Cabrini might have the seed advantage, but we all know Midd is better.

If WashU wins, then Witt is likely to host, right?  Woo and WashU are over 500 miles apart.

Whitewater did have a conflict until their women lost to Carthage. In other words, a CCIW woman's team may keep a CCIW men's team from hosting. I doubt Carthage fans are shedding any tears though.  :P

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 11:06:31 PM

Quote from: Cali-Scot on March 03, 2012, 10:47:44 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 10:31:05 PM

Quote from: fantastic50 on March 03, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
With Wooster and Witt very comparable, and Wooster having hosted a regional last year (when they weren't the highest seed remaining), my guess is that Witt gets it.  (However, as a Scots fan, I would be thrilled if I'm wrong!)

I dont think last year's regional will have any bearing on this year's hosting.

Everyone on the NCAC Board seems to think Wooster has a poor chance of hosting next weekend specifically because they hosted last year... I hope they are wrong!

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think any of the hosting criteria mention things that happened in prior years.  If anything, I would think Witt's head-to-head advantage would give them the leg up over Wooster in terms of final regional rankings and hosting.

I would think that if Witt was ahead of Wooster in the final regional rankings that Witt would have been hosting this weekend while Wooster was braving the storms in Lexington. 

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 11:06:31 PM

Quote from: Cali-Scot on March 03, 2012, 10:47:44 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 10:31:05 PM

Quote from: fantastic50 on March 03, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
With Wooster and Witt very comparable, and Wooster having hosted a regional last year (when they weren't the highest seed remaining), my guess is that Witt gets it.  (However, as a Scots fan, I would be thrilled if I'm wrong!)

I dont think last year's regional will have any bearing on this year's hosting.

Everyone on the NCAC Board seems to think Wooster has a poor chance of hosting next weekend specifically because they hosted last year... I hope they are wrong!

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think any of the hosting criteria mention things that happened in prior years.  If anything, I would think Witt's head-to-head advantage would give them the leg up over Wooster in terms of final regional rankings and hosting.

I'm almost certain that the hosting criteria does mention "rotation of hosting sites" as one of the things the NCAA should consider in their selection of a site. However, I don't think it's typically stopped the top remaining seed from hosting sectionals in back-to-back years...but other posters would be more knowledgeable on this.

In theory, Wooster is the highest remaining seed. Wooster should've been sent to Transy and Witt should've hosted this weekend if Wittenberg ended up higher than Wooster in the final Great Lakes regional rankings. Too bad the committee never decided to release those...

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 03, 2012, 11:22:42 PM

Quote from: mailsy on March 03, 2012, 11:19:39 PM
Here are our Sweet 16 teams:

Upper Left Bracket:  Eastern Connecticut vs Cabrini, Scranton vs Middlebury.  Lower Left Bracket: North Central vs Wittenberg, Illinois Weleyan vs Wooster.  Upper Right Bracket: Franklin & Marshall vs Amherst, Farmingdale State vs Staten Island.  Lower Right Bracket: Whitworth vs Virginia Wesleyan, Wheaton vs UW-Whitewater.

There are some good matchups next Friday night.  Now we wait 'til tomorrow at 3:00pm.

Good luck to all the teams remaining!! :)

Farmingdale State got blown out by MIT, so they will not be playing next Friday.

Here are the actual matchups for next Friday:

http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/basketball-men/d3

You could have linked to the D3hoops.com bracket, you know...

And yes, I suspect Wooster will be given the nod... since they did not travel and Wittenberg did, it gives the indication that Wooster was ranked higher than Witt. In that case, unless there is a geographical reason, the high ranked team tends to hold onto the hosting opportunity.

As for F&M, the hook might be Cabrini... will the NCAA reward both MA teams a hosting chance and bring everyone to them... or will they reward it to just one of them to keep one of those pods in the Northeast... that is where geography may become a factor.

Just some thoughts as I sit at the airport in Louisville getting ready to board my plan... ronk, I am well... but clearly this area is shook up from Friday's storms. Worse in Kentucky history, apparently, and Friday was interesting (we did have to go to below ground on court level, but never had to get into the locker rooms for safety).

I also heard several stories of a few degrees of separation from those killed, homes destroyed, or near misses... my thoughts and prayers are certainly in Kentucky and Indiana (along with Tennessee) after Friday's experience.

I think geography played a part in why Wittenberg (who swept Wooster in the regular season matchups) traveled while Wooster hosted. Sending the presumably lower-seeded Wooster to Transy's pod (Transy being the clear #2 seed in the sectional) creates a travel problem (Randolph-Macon is 507 miles from Wittenberg but just 464 from Wooster), so they sent Wittenberg instead. The two rivals had very similar tournament resumes apart from the head-to-head, so it wasn't too egregious to put one of them on the road while the other got to host. Now that the geographic problems are no more (both CCIW schools are well within 500 miles of both Witt and Woo), I think they will revert to what has to have been the correct seeding and give the sectional to Wittenberg.

The bracket (http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/basketball-men/d3 (http://www.ncaa.com/interactive-bracket/basketball-men/d3))looks to be updated with hosts - Midd, F&M, Wooster, and WW.

Pat Coleman just tweeted:

Men's sectionals will be held at: Wooster, UWW, F&M, Middlebury.

Must be a little of an upset that Amherst isn't hosting over F&M.

Amherst can't host because the women are.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 12:41:23 PM
Must be a little of an upset that Amherst isn't hosting over F&M.

from what i'm reading, its an issue of fairness.  the Amherst women have the right in even number years to host, which is why the men cannot. 

Thanks.  I didn't really look at the women's hosting site. 

Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

i tried to create some metrics to develop potential game lines.  i know its off the radar, but i think a huge upset was scranton over Becker.  Becker had been playing phenomenal defense, and not just the loss but the way they lost was a shocker in my opinion.  I also think Birm So's early exit was a surprise. 

Quote from: onetinsoldier on March 04, 2012, 01:54:00 PM
i tried to create some metrics to develop potential game lines.  i know its off the radar, but i think a huge upset was scranton over Becker.  Becker had been playing phenomenal defense, and not just the loss but the way they lost was a shocker in my opinion.  I also think Birm So's early exit was a surprise.

I admittedly don't know much about those teams.  But, Becker was barely ranked in the regional rankings and their SOS was pretty bad.  Not sure how many people will agree with you about your assessment of Birm-So either.  They had that gaudy record, but their SOS was horrible.  Wittenberg, on the other hand, had a very high SOS, was 6-1 vs Regionally Ranked Opponents in the last publicly released rankings.  The conference also got TWO other bids, which tells me the conference is very strong.  Some even thought Birm-So. shouldn't have even received a Pool C bid. 

On the other hand, Franklin & Marshall had an equally bad SOS and gaudy record and their hosting a Sweet 16 sectional (though they were Pool A)!

Using my system's tournament odds calculation, there were two upsets that really stood out in round 1:

Trinity (Texas) winning @ Mary Hardin-Baylor   (11.9% chance of happening)
Edgewood winning @ UW-River Falls  (13.4% chance of happening)

For the second round:

Nothin too major but these 3 games all had the underdog @ about 40-41% chance:

IWU over Hope
NCC over Wash U. (although NCC is playing much better than their ranking shows)
Scranton over Becker

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2012, 11:05:39 AM
You could have linked to the D3hoops.com bracket, you know...

Bahaha! When he did that I immediately thought back to all those times Pat would say something like this. I am so glad nothing has changed here.

Only that Dave is the one saying it now, not me. :)

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2012, 11:05:39 AM
You could have linked to the D3hoops.com bracket, you know...

And yes, I suspect Wooster will be given the nod... since they did not travel and Wittenberg did, it gives the indication that Wooster was ranked higher than Witt. In that case, unless there is a geographical reason, the high ranked team tends to hold onto the hosting opportunity.

As for F&M, the hook might be Cabrini... will the NCAA reward both MA teams a hosting chance and bring everyone to them... or will they reward it to just one of them to keep one of those pods in the Northeast... that is where geography may become a factor.

Just some thoughts as I sit at the airport in Louisville getting ready to board my plan... ronk, I am well... but clearly this area is shook up from Friday's storms. Worse in Kentucky history, apparently, and Friday was interesting (we did have to go to below ground on court level, but never had to get into the locker rooms for safety).

I also heard several stories of a few degrees of separation from those killed, homes destroyed, or near misses... my thoughts and prayers are certainly in Kentucky and Indiana (along with Tennessee) after Friday's experience.

D3hoops bracket wasn't updated when I posted that, or I would have.

Quote from: gordonmann on March 04, 2012, 12:43:51 PM
Amherst can't host because the women are.

I seem to remember one year where both the men and women of one school hosted the same round..

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:52:25 PM

Quote from: gordonmann on March 04, 2012, 12:43:51 PM
Amherst can't host because the women are.

I seem to remember one year where both the men and women of one school hosted the same round..

Not in the sectionals. A year when each played one game on a Saturday? Sure, that's happened before. But not when you would have to have eight teams in the building at once.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2012, 04:54:59 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:52:25 PM

Quote from: gordonmann on March 04, 2012, 12:43:51 PM
Amherst can't host because the women are.

I seem to remember one year where both the men and women of one school hosted the same round..

Not in the sectionals. A year when each played one game on a Saturday? Sure, that's happened before. But not when you would have to have eight teams in the building at once.

I knew it happened, wasn't sure of the specifics.   That would be a logistical nightmare...

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

Becker is from outside Worcester, MA.  They've been on the cusp of a minor breakthrough for several seasons now.  William Patterson was probably overrated.

I think Trinity over MHB is probably the biggest upset.  Trinity was the third? best team in their conference this year.

Carroll over Transy is another option, but no one was quite sure what to make of Transy this year.

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM
I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

They have campus in Leicester and Worcester, MA no more than 10 minutes down the road from each other, but I think the gym is on the Leicester campus.

How about Scranton in the sweet sixteen?

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2012, 05:19:00 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

Becker is from outside Worcester, MA.  They've been on the cusp of a minor breakthrough for several seasons now.  William Patterson was probably overrated.

I think Trinity over MHB is probably the biggest upset.  Trinity was the third? best team in their conference this year.

Carroll over Transy is another option, but no one was quite sure what to make of Transy this year.

Respectfully, I have to give props to Trinity's Coach Cunningham who brought along a very young, very smart, very disciplined team which put it together in the last half of the season. The fact that these players were down 20 points in the second half to Whitworth and came back to within 2 says a lot about them.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2012, 09:15:41 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2012, 05:19:00 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

Becker is from outside Worcester, MA.  They've been on the cusp of a minor breakthrough for several seasons now.  William Patterson was probably overrated.

I think Trinity over MHB is probably the biggest upset.  Trinity was the third? best team in their conference this year.

Carroll over Transy is another option, but no one was quite sure what to make of Transy this year.

Respectfully, I have to give props to Trinity's Coach Cunningham who brought along a very young, very smart, very disciplined team which put it together in the last half of the season. The fact that these players were down 20 points in the second half to Whitworth and came back to within 2 says a lot about them.

They did well, but it was more a coming together at the end of the year, right?  Certainly not expected for most of us.  I think Carroll has to fall into the same category.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2012, 09:25:04 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2012, 09:15:41 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2012, 05:19:00 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

Becker is from outside Worcester, MA.  They've been on the cusp of a minor breakthrough for several seasons now.  William Patterson was probably overrated.

I think Trinity over MHB is probably the biggest upset.  Trinity was the third? best team in their conference this year.

Carroll over Transy is another option, but no one was quite sure what to make of Transy this year.

Respectfully, I have to give props to Trinity's Coach Cunningham who brought along a very young, very smart, very disciplined team which put it together in the last half of the season. The fact that these players were down 20 points in the second half to Whitworth and came back to within 2 says a lot about them.

They did well, but it was more a coming together at the end of the year, right?  Certainly not expected for most of us.  I think Carroll has to fall into the same category.

Yes, but they won the 6-team SCAC-West.  They had a 13-game winning streak ( 9 in conference, 3 in SCAC tourney, and 1 in NCAA 1st round).  They went 9-1 vs SCAC-West teams (losing to Colorado College on 12/3) and lost at home to BSC on 1/14, on the road to Sewanee on 1/20 and and Centre on 1/21.  That was 3-3 versus the SCAC-East.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2012, 09:50:26 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2012, 09:25:04 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2012, 09:15:41 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2012, 05:19:00 PM

Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 04, 2012, 04:54:23 PM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2012, 01:08:36 PM
Aside from IWU's big win over Hope, what's the next biggest upset of the tourney?

Was it Becker topping William Paterson in the 1st round?

Maybe Carroll U. over Transylvania in the 1st round?

Farmingdale State over Hartwick in the 1st round?

Trinity (TX) over Mary Hardin-Baylor in the 1st round?

Edgewood over River Falls in the 1st round?

I think it could be Carroll over Transy.  Carroll was 4th best in a weak MWC and pulled wins to take the conf. tourney. 

Edgewood over River Falls, possibly, but River Falls isn't very experienced in the NCAAs and Edgewood, despite not winning the NATHCON was supposed to be the best team in the conference.

6 host teams lost in the 1st round, 3 more in the 2nd round.  I think that's correct.

I would say Becker over William Paterson.   Where is Becker from?

Becker is from outside Worcester, MA.  They've been on the cusp of a minor breakthrough for several seasons now.  William Patterson was probably overrated.

I think Trinity over MHB is probably the biggest upset.  Trinity was the third? best team in their conference this year.

Carroll over Transy is another option, but no one was quite sure what to make of Transy this year.

Respectfully, I have to give props to Trinity's Coach Cunningham who brought along a very young, very smart, very disciplined team which put it together in the last half of the season. The fact that these players were down 20 points in the second half to Whitworth and came back to within 2 says a lot about them.

They did well, but it was more a coming together at the end of the year, right?  Certainly not expected for most of us.  I think Carroll has to fall into the same category.

Yes, but they won the 6-team SCAC-West.  They had a 13-game winning streak ( 9 in conference, 3 in SCAC tourney, and 1 in NCAA 1st round).  They went 9-1 vs SCAC-West teams (losing to Colorado College on 12/3) and lost at home to BSC on 1/14, on the road to Sewanee on 1/20 and and Centre on 1/21.  That was 3-3 versus the SCAC-East.

Maybe it's just because I was never all that impressed with BSC or Centre this year.

I can be convinced Carroll was the biggest upset - I just think taking down MHB was bigger than taking down Transy.

What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

The guidebook is fantastic! It's been on my screen all weekend.

http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2011/11/new-resource-new-season

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

I wish that the ASC could be flown to the F&M bracket every year.  That would give us 2-3 wins until we hit the "meat" of the tournament.

Sometimes highly regarded can be the perception that the coach sells to his friends.  UMHB started out about right (#16) and floated up because they did not lose any games.  (I always had UMHB on the underside of the distribution in the Poster's Poll.)

Sometimes the style-of-play match-up that you get determines your success. We ASC teams have trouble against traditional teams that have lots of height.  We usually get sent to the Midwest. We never have big men in the ASC. However, our guard play will give teams fits.  (509)Rat said that the McMurry (20-9 on the season) guard play was the toughest that he had seen all year. Whitworth could not put McMurry away.  We had a high pressure attack on the Whitworth guards all night.  McMurry had its all-conference big man Steven Jones on the bench with 2 fouls within the first 5 minutes. Whitworth should have had this game at double digits by halftime.

UMHB benefited from float up, but I thought that they would show better than they did against Trinity.  Give props to Coach Cunningham.

The true test of the UMHB "pod" may be how well that Whitworth performs. :)

As for overall strength of the ASC, they will always be "solid mid-Major" (around #10-15 of 40) in D3 in my book.  With the changes that are occurring, we should have a nice "West Region" mini-bracket with the ASC, the NWC, the SCIAC and the "new SCAC" as four travel orphans.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

I wish that the ASC could be flown to the F&M bracket every year.  That would give us 2-3 wins until we hit the "meat" of the tournament.

Gotta win a home game against the team that went 12-4 in the SCAC at some point. Might as well be in the first round.

Using straight Efficiency rating, the higher rated team went 23-7 in round 1, 12-4 in round 2 for a total of 35-11.

Using schedule strength adjusted efficiency rating, the higher rated team went 24-6 in round 1, 12-4 in round 2 for a total of 36-10.



Using straight efficiency calculations the biggest upset of the first round was....

St. Mary's over Bethany -15
Wittenberg over Birm-Southern -13
Trinity over MHB -11

Using schedule adjustment...

Trinity over MHB  -16
St. Thomas over Claremont MS  -8
St. Mary's over Bethany  -7
Carroll over Transy -7


Second round upsets

Straight efficiency
Scranton over Becker -13
IWU over Hope -5

Schedule strength adjusted
Scranton over Becker -7
IWU over Hope -6


For the Sectionals, the Four 'favorites' (same for straight or adjusted)

Middlebury
MIT   ???
Wooster
Whitewater

The Sectional at Whitewater is pretty much a statistical dead heat with all 4 teams within 2 points of each other.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2012, 02:24:04 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

I wish that the ASC could be flown to the F&M bracket every year.  That would give us 2-3 wins until we hit the "meat" of the tournament.

Gotta win a home game against the team that went 12-4 in the SCAC at some point. Might as well be in the first round.

One thing is for sure about next season...
as a D-3 fan at large, I won't have to defend the ASC for all of its foibles.

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 08:49:55 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2012, 02:24:04 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

I wish that the ASC could be flown to the F&M bracket every year.  That would give us 2-3 wins until we hit the "meat" of the tournament.

Gotta win a home game against the team that went 12-4 in the SCAC at some point. Might as well be in the first round.

One thing is for sure about next season...
as a D-3 fan at large, I won't have to defend the ASC for all of its foibles.

When are you due to become a free agent, Ralph? The CCIW needs to know when to put in its bid for your fan contract. ;)

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2012, 09:03:35 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 08:49:55 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2012, 02:24:04 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

I wish that the ASC could be flown to the F&M bracket every year.  That would give us 2-3 wins until we hit the "meat" of the tournament.

Gotta win a home game against the team that went 12-4 in the SCAC at some point. Might as well be in the first round.

One thing is for sure about next season...
as a D-3 fan at large, I won't have to defend the ASC for all of its foibles.

When are you due to become a free agent, Ralph? The CCIW needs to know when to put in its bid for your fan contract. ;)

Right now, it looks like August 1, 2012.   :)

Ralph, The NCAC could use some help against the OAC, CCIW and MIAA. Help the underdogs, like the Terriers!

Like the CCIW needs any more fans interacting? :)

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 09:33:20 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2012, 09:03:35 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 08:49:55 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2012, 02:24:04 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2012, 01:24:25 PM

Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 05, 2012, 11:58:54 AM
What's the ASC's history in the tournament? My gut feeling is that highly regarded teams flop more often than the reverse. Granted, they usually travel a lot, but that wasn't the case here.

[EDIT] Realized that info was probably in Gordon Mann's guidebook.

Looks like they're now 13-17, .433 (since 2002).

I wish that the ASC could be flown to the F&M bracket every year.  That would give us 2-3 wins until we hit the "meat" of the tournament.

Gotta win a home game against the team that went 12-4 in the SCAC at some point. Might as well be in the first round.

One thing is for sure about next season...
as a D-3 fan at large, I won't have to defend the ASC for all of its foibles.

When are you due to become a free agent, Ralph? The CCIW needs to know when to put in its bid for your fan contract.

Right now, it looks like August 1, 2012.

You should join the CCC bandwagon.  We're small and not that talented, but we play hard and i came within a hair's breath of convincing ENC to go mascotless partly by appealing to McMurry's shot at it.  We're already connected.

Plus, when following the CCC, you can still choose a national favorite to root for come tournament time.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 05, 2012, 10:09:22 PM
Like the CCIW needs any more fans interacting? :)

We've got the quantity; now we need to beef up the quality. And Ralph's a highly-valued poster. He didn't simply make the Hall of Fame by being a beneficiary of the Abilene Paradox (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_iGdiYO7gI) among the other members.

Why not jump from one DIII island to another? Come share in our travel miseries. The Linfield guys would love to have someone else to talk to during football season too  ;)

Hey, for the record, I have split the 2012 NCAA Tournament conversation off from the rest three times now. I'd like it to stay this way, please. HOFers, please don't re-merge this page, thanks.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2012, 12:21:07 AM
Hey, for the record, I have split the 2012 NCAA Tournament conversation off from the rest three times now. I'd like it to stay this way, please. HOFers, please don't re-merge this page, thanks.

I haven't merged this thread, but I do have the ability to do so.  Does that make me a HOFer?

Sorry, I did just once.  I merged last year's tourney talk with a new thread I created and renamed it 2012.  My apologies!  Maybe you can go through some "clutter" (as my wife likes to call it) and delete some of those topics from 4 years ago that no one has looked at! LOL

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2012, 01:00:14 PM
Sorry, I did just once.  I merged last year's tourney talk with a new thread I created and renamed it 2012.  My apologies!  Maybe you can go through some "clutter" (as my wife likes to call it) and delete some of those topics from 4 years ago that no one has looked at! LOL

I actually prefer to have the entire thread saved for achival purposes.

There have been numerous times that I have found an old post that had key information to a current discussion.

---

I don't think that I merged a new discussion into the old one.   ???  The memory fades.

Massey predictions for the final 16 - 1-2 in the games completed already

MIT 71 Staten Island 67 (actual MIT 83-67)
Amherst 69 F&M 67
Amherst 71 MIT 69

Eastern CT 73 Cabrini 71  (Actual Cabrini 72-65)
Middlebury 73 Scranton 61
Middlebury 68  Eastern CT 61

North Central 64  Wittenberg 61 (actual Witt 58-55)
Wooster 73 IWU 71
Wooster 69 Wittenberg 66

Whitworth 73 VWU 71
UWW 66 Wheaton 60
UWW 71 Whitworth 65

Final Four
Middlebury 71  Wooster 68
UWW 72 Amherst 68
UWW 67 Middlebury 63

What were the percentages, which I think are more revealing.

The two hosts team on the left side of the bracket have lost.  Does Wittenberg have the biggest home court advantage since they are the closest to home?  Hopefully the Cabrini/Scranton contingents make a lot of noise!!!

If Wooster fans show up, they'll root for IWU.

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 11:02:39 PM
If Wooster fans show up, they'll root for IWU.

That works for me!  Though the Titans haven't done too badly as the 'hated' enemy at Hope and Wooster! ;D

Went to the games at Lancaster tonight.  MIT was impressive with their defense, discipline, and intelligence.  They played through foul trouble, stuck to the game plan (banging inside unless Karraker is open) and seemed to easily wear down CSI.

Staten Island was impressive - lots of athletes, but they didn't have much of a game plan (other than run and run some more) and they made lots of bad passes and turnovers.  They really clicked at the end when they just gave the ball to Magliore and cleared out.  That kid can score!

MIT had serious trouble breaking the press.  Kates is their only ball handler.  If F&M presses tomorrow, they could win by 40.  Seriously, it was that bad.

I really thought MIT was a contender, but my frame of reference changed when the two teams came out for warmups for the second game.  Both Amherst and F&M are serious teams.  Big, strong, physical, athletic, and really deep.  It was a true heavyweight matchup.

Toomey struggled in the first half and sat quite a bit of it.  Amherst needed to pound the inside on offense, but he wasn't making the right passes.  Also Amherst could not keep F&M from scoring - they had a terrible, terrible defense.  I can't remember the last time I saw such a magnificent team offensive performance as F&M put on in the first half.  That being said, they were only up one at the half.  I could have sworn Amherst had it in the bag.

Milligan came out in the second half and took over.  Best guard I've seen all year.  He was making everything with that ugly, awkward shot of his, even with a hand in his face.  F&M's perimeter defense was incredible and they have plenty of big bodies to throw around down low.

In both games the refs did fine in the first half, but came out completely inconsistent in the second half.  Teams didn't know what would be called or when.  The NE teams had a tougher time adjusting to it.

For the Amherst game, they really seemed to get the worst of it.  Getting touch fouls called on them on defense and then getting crushed with no calls on offense.  They probably got the better of things with guard play, but so much of the game was played inside, it hurt them quite a bit.  Toomey was getting clobbered and rarely got a call.

I don't mind refs letting things go, but they were completely inconsistent.  I was steaming mad most of the second half and I didn't even care who won.  I feel like we were robbed of an epic battle due to poor officiating.  I said it on another board, but I expected better from the NCAA for sectionals.  The refs weren't bad, but they weren't tournament quality.

In the end, the refs did not decide the game.  Amherst had the ball, down 4 with two minutes remaining and F&M missed five consecutive FTs.  The Jeffs still couldn't make the plays when they needed to.  Milligan willed F&M to a win and got a lot of support from his interior guys.

It was still a great game, but it could have been better.

I met a few of the Amherst posters, sat next to Walzy for the second half.  I also shoot Dave McHugh's hand, but he was a bit busy with all the cameras and duties he had on the night.

The gym and the atmosphere were nice (not a fan of no food in the bleachers, but whatever).  I did find the F&M faithful less than welcoming.  A lot of them showed up for the first game to save seats.  When I didn't leave my seat after the first game, I got lots of nasty stares and comments spoken just loud enough for me to overhear.

I eventually moved over to the Amherst section.  The F&M fans weren't exactly mean, but I doubt I'll go back there in any situation other than the NCAA tournament.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2012, 12:45:18 AM
For the Amherst game, they really seemed to get the worst of it.  Getting touch fouls called on them on defense and then getting crushed with no calls on offense.  They probably got the better of things with guard play, but so much of the game was played inside, it hurt them quite a bit.  Toomey was getting clobbered and rarely got a call.

I know I'm biased, but I can't agree with the bolded statement after rewatching the game (along with what I saw live last night).  On 2 occasions, Toomey clearly kicked his leg out after taking a three, drawing contact and going down awkwardly.  It would have been terrible if he had gotten those calls.  Another attempt from three was probably a foul, but Toomey definitely leaned into Milligan after getting him in the air.  On drives, he created a lot of contact by dipping his shoulder a bit.  Perhaps he should have gotten an additional call or two, but to say he was getting clobbered is a huge overstatement.

That said, the touch fouls on Amherst early in the second half were not consistent with the rest of the game.  Getting the third fouls on Workman and Barrise in the first 3 minutes had an impact on the game.

As someone who was at the game and don't have any bias towards either team... I would agree that Toomey was the one initiating contact. The refs weren't buying it. It reminded me of Reggie Miller.

Toomey took a lot of ill advised shots and his constant effort to draw fouls just wasn't working.

And yes, there was plenty of contact be allowed by both teams... but here is the deal, this time of year you have to adjust... there is no tomorrow. You have to make quick adjustments to how a team is playing you, how you are playing (poorly or well), and how the refs are calling the game. If you can't make those adjustments... season over.

Quote from: smedindy on March 09, 2012, 11:02:39 PM
If Wooster fans show up, they'll root for IWU.

That is, if Wooster fans show up, the reason they do will be to root against Wittenberg. Even with very respectable showings from both Witt and IWU in the stands (NCC was well-represented too), tonight's crowd won't be very large.

There was a lot of chatter before last night's game about which team the Wooster fans would support in the first game (archrival Wittenberg vs. North Central with beloved Wooster icon Ian Franks as an assistant coach), but the reality was that the Wooster fans mostly sat quietly throughout the game. That's what Wooster fans do; they show up in huge numbers and sit quietly. They really didn't get into the second game until the last 10 minutes or so, when the Scots were chipping away at IWU's game-long lead.

Congrats to Cabrini, MIT, Whitewater and IWU! 

Quote from: fritzdis on March 10, 2012, 02:38:07 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2012, 12:45:18 AM
For the Amherst game, they really seemed to get the worst of it.  Getting touch fouls called on them on defense and then getting crushed with no calls on offense.  They probably got the better of things with guard play, but so much of the game was played inside, it hurt them quite a bit.  Toomey was getting clobbered and rarely got a call.

I know I'm biased, but I can't agree with the bolded statement after rewatching the game (along with what I saw live last night).  On 2 occasions, Toomey clearly kicked his leg out after taking a three, drawing contact and going down awkwardly.  It would have been terrible if he had gotten those calls.  Another attempt from three was probably a foul, but Toomey definitely leaned into Milligan after getting him in the air.  On drives, he created a lot of contact by dipping his shoulder a bit.  Perhaps he should have gotten an additional call or two, but to say he was getting clobbered is a huge overstatement.

That said, the touch fouls on Amherst early in the second half were not consistent with the rest of the game.  Getting the third fouls on Workman and Barrise in the first 3 minutes had an impact on the game.

He did draw a lot of contact and had more trouble than most adjusting to the way refs were calling the game - that's not to say he didn't actually deserve some more calls from time to time.  Obviously his style leads the refs to be more lax in calling stuff and I guess that was a chance he took and lost.

As for drawing contact when the guy is in the air, I'm not a huge fan, but if you take a shot and it's hindered by the guy in the air, that has to be a foul, as much as the traditionalist in all of us doesn't like it.  Perhaps it was more egregious because Toomey got called for the same foul five seconds later on the other end.  That was what made me most upset.  I don't mind letting it go, but they can't let it go on one end and call the same thing five seconds later on the other, just because one seemed more intentional than the other.

Hoops Fan...Glad I got a chance of meeting you.  Posted support to your posts on the NEWMAC board.  With regards to the F&M fans, I had some similar experience.  Came to the first game near half time.  Since I am also a graduate of MIT, I decided to sit in the MIT section while awaiting the end of the game.  As I left the section at the end of the game, I noticed a number of the seats had "reserved seat" posters on them.  As I went over to the "Amherst" section behind the Amherst bench, I bumped into several fans that didn't want to move away as I was climbing up to greet some old Amherst fans.  I looked at the fans blocking me somewhat and they were holding F&M signs that had the words "protesting" on them.  I asked them what they were protesting....never really got a straight answer and didn't give it a 2nd thought then.  I sat with my friends, surrounded by Dips fans....saw other Amherst supporters near by.  Wondered a bit if there was even a section allowed for Amherst....did see one in the corner area...Strange hosting.
Now to the questioning of refs.  Hugenerd and I both noticed the change in the calls during the 2nd half of the MIT game.
To the Dips supporters, etc.....I have the following comments. In the high tension games with two rated good teams, tough calls occur.  In such games, I prefer that the games should be decided primarily by the players and the play on the floor....that the refs NOT impose themselves...or be a factor.  It it to be called tight...so be it....but it should be consistent.  Then the coaches and players can make adjustments and the ones that can adjust the best will win,IMO.  When the calls become inconsistent during the game, between halves and at seemly critical times, then I need to point out the calls by refs that, I believe are under stress and maybe over their heads at such championship level games.
Two examples...Amherst played the #4 ranked team, Middlebury, to decide the conference championship.
In the title game, at Amherst, Middlebury down two pts, tied the game with less than a minute to play.  Midd.'s star guard drove up to make a layup....Amherst's big center stood in his way with his hands straight up.  The guard drove up and into the center as he shot the ball.  To me, I thought it was a foul by the guard.  The ball went in.  NO call by the refs....the best call to make.
In the F&M game, late in the 2nd half, a Dips player drove up to make a shot.  Amherst big center stood in his way, arms raised straight up. The Dips player initiated the contact....the layup missed and a foul was called on Amherst.  The Amherst starting center had to sit down because of the foul.  The Dips player went to the foul line.  Best call should have been NO call.
2nd example.....Late in the 2nd half...Toomey and Milligan, I believe, were facing each other....Toomey goes up for a shot, 3-point shot. I believe some Dips fan acknowledged that Toomey may have been fouled but he was leaning into Milliagan.  NO call.  If a call had been made....Toomey who is a 90 plus foul shooter would have made 3 points in a tight game at the time.  It could have changed the way Amherst played the last two minutes of the game.  Better yet....Milligan who played a great game...had 4 fouls.  If a foul was called and it was the 5th...then The Dips' star would not have been around to score 30 points.
Quality refs are needed in championship type games so fans like me...partisan or not....should not have to question calls.

Quick thought on fouls where the offensive player leans into the defender... it shouldn't be called even if the defender is in the air. If the defender leaps in the air straight up and down and doesn't initiate the contact, why should the offensive player be allowed to jump into that player and a foul be called? Further more if the shooter makes an effort to alter his normal shooting style to make the contact... again no call.

Toomey did this to Milligan and others several times and I appreciated it wasn't called that often. Milligan did the same a few times and only one that glares out to me was an off balance shot he took against MIT in the lane (which he made) that seemed it should have been a no call.

Just because contact is made, doesn't mean it is the defender's fault or foul. This is also where offensive charge calls should become more prevalent.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2012, 04:46:27 PM
Quick thought on fouls where the offensive player leans into the defender... it shouldn't be called even if the defender is in the air. If the defender leaps in the air straight up and down and doesn't initiate the contact, why should the offensive player be allowed to jump into that player and a foul be called? Further more if the shooter makes an effort to alter his normal shooting style to make the contact... again no call.

Toomey did this to Milligan and others several times and I appreciated it wasn't called that often. Milligan did the same a few times and only one that glares out to me was an off balance shot he took against MIT in the lane (which he made) that seemed it should have been a no call.

Just because contact is made, doesn't mean it is the defender's fault or foul. This is also where offensive charge calls should become more prevalent.

I agree.  I don't like it called often and certainly Toomey's penchant for leaning in cost him some calls he deserved.  That's the price you pay.  He should have realized early on they weren't giving him those and adjusted.  Hopefully his big lesson from this tournament is about adjustments - he certainly showed he was an underclassman in that area, even if his physical skills are amazing.  I just can't imagine how good he'll be as a senior if he keeps improving.

Quote from: amh63 on March 11, 2012, 03:41:22 PM
In the F&M game, late in the 2nd half, a Dips player drove up to make a shot.  Amherst big center stood in his way, arms raised straight up. The Dips player initiated the contact....the layup missed and a foul was called on Amherst.  The Amherst starting center had to sit down because of the foul.  The Dips player went to the foul line.  Best call should have been NO call.
2nd example.....Late in the 2nd half...Toomey and Milligan, I believe, were facing each other....Toomey goes up for a shot, 3-point shot. I believe some Dips fan acknowledged that Toomey may have been fouled but he was leaning into Milliagan.  NO call.  If a call had been made....Toomey who is a 90 plus foul shooter would have made 3 points in a tight game at the time.  It could have changed the way Amherst played the last two minutes of the game.  Better yet....Milligan who played a great game...had 4 fouls.  If a foul was called and it was the 5th...then The Dips' star would not have been around to score 30 points.
Quality refs are needed in championship type games so fans like me...partisan or not....should not have to question calls.

A stream of the game is available online at http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/fandm.portal# (http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/fandm.portal#) (under the On Demand tab).  I believe the plays you're referring to occurred at 4:37 remaining for the foul on Kaasila and 9:45 remaining for the Toomey 3-point shot.  On the Kaasila foul, his right arm isn't even close to straight up and hits Milligan in the head.  On the 3-point shot, Toomey kicks out his right leg as Milligan goes by him, creating the contact.  That play should never be a defensive foul, as far as I'm concerned.

Toomey clearly grew up watching Reggie Miller! :)

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2012, 10:45:11 PM
Toomey clearly grew up watching Reggie Miller!

Sadly, probably not.  I grew up watching Reggie Miller and I'm a decade older than Toomey.  He probably has very few memories, if any, of Reggie playing.

Quote from: pjunito on February 29, 2012, 12:26:35 PM
Tournament Odds


https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/tourney-odds

Hey pjunito

this site was a great help in filling out the bracket.  Amazing fun comparing original odds to what actually happened.  do you know if one is/was done for the D1 tournament as well?

Quote from: onetinsoldier on March 12, 2012, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: pjunito on February 29, 2012, 12:26:35 PM
Tournament Odds


https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/tourney-odds

Hey pjunito

this site was a great help in filling out the bracket.  Amazing fun comparing original odds to what actually happened.  do you know if one is/was done for the D1 tournament as well?

Those rankings were done by a poster on these boards, augie_superfan, so you could email him directly to ask him.

Sorry to break in, but I thought people here might like this.  It's my 2012 Mascot Bracket.  The entire NCAA DI tournament picked on the basis of "Which mascot would win in a fight?"  http://wp.me/plb5b-w0.  Taken into the DIII Final Four, I would say that the Titans would have a good chance to beat the Cavaliers and I think a War Hawk would take out an unarmed Engineer, but then be easily dispatched by the Titan.

Quote from: mactitan on March 12, 2012, 03:23:30 PM
Sorry to break in, but I thought people here might like this.  It's my 2012 Mascot Bracket.  The entire NCAA DI tournament picked on the basis of "Which mascot would win in a fight?"  http://wp.me/plb5b-w0.  Taken into the DIII Final Four, I would say that the Titans would have a good chance to beat the Cavaliers and I think a War Hawk would take out an unarmed Engineer, but then be easily dispatched by the Titan.

Engineers are rarely unarmed at MIT!  Have you seen the size of my calculator?

There will always be questionable calls.  The very best we can all hope for is that the same play is called the same way from the first possesion of the game to the last.  While that it is indeed the goal, I am not holding my breath I will ever see it.  I watched D1 games during "Championship Week" last week and saw the same kinds of inconsistient calls.   A guy drives to the basket, gets hacked, no call, 2 minutes later, barely any contact on a similar drive and its a 3pt play.

I forget what game it was yesterday, But a big went out on the perimeter to set a screen for the player with the ball - obvious illegal screen right in front of the official - No Call from him at all.  Adifferent official fromthe other side of the floor came running over and made the call.   Now this was a D1 conference championship game and we still this kind of stuff.

The whole leg kick thing could have been stopped years ago if the officals and governing bodies had any stones at all.  The offense already was being given large advantages when it came to contact and initating contact.  There was no need to give approval to another 'move' designed solely to draw a call.
 

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 12, 2012, 02:00:39 PM

Quote from: onetinsoldier on March 12, 2012, 10:55:51 AM

Quote from: pjunito on February 29, 2012, 12:26:35 PM
Tournament Odds


https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/tourney-odds

Hey pjunito

this site was a great help in filling out the bracket.  Amazing fun comparing original odds to what actually happened.  do you know if one is/was done for the D1 tournament as well?

Those rankings were done by a poster on these boards, augie_superfan, so you could email him directly to ask him.

Ken Pomeroy has his tournament odds up....http://kenpom.com/blog/ (http://kenpom.com/blog/)

any news on streaming video/tv of the final four yet? maybe i'm not looking in the right places. Thanks!

Quote from: stag44 on March 13, 2012, 09:09:45 AM
any news on streaming video/tv of the final four yet? maybe i'm not looking in the right places. Thanks!

Turner Sports is doing it again.  Live streaming will be available - d3hoops.com will have links.

So the All-Star game roster is out.  The East is huge; lots of big guys on that roster.  It should be a fun game.

Are they going to include seniors from the semifinal losers again this year?

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 13, 2012, 11:43:48 AM

So the All-Star game roster is out.  The East is huge; lots of big guys on that roster.  It should be a fun game.

Are they going to include seniors from the semifinal losers again this year?

I remember reading 1 senior from each semifinal loser, but I am sure Dave or Pat can verify that.

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 13, 2012, 11:47:28 AM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 13, 2012, 11:43:48 AM

So the All-Star game roster is out.  The East is huge; lots of big guys on that roster.  It should be a fun game.

Are they going to include seniors from the semifinal losers again this year?

I remember reading 1 senior from each semifinal loser, but I am sure Dave or Pat can verify that.

I believe they will try, but if they refuse to play, like Williams and Middlebury did last year, not much can be done about it.

Did they give a reason why they didn't play?  I know, emotionally, it's probably pretty tough to play in the all-star game after your dreams are crushed in the semis. 

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 13, 2012, 09:05:09 PM
Did they give a reason why they didn't play?  I know, emotionally, it's probably pretty tough to play in the all-star game after your dreams are crushed in the semis.

I can totally get not playing. You play a long stretch of do-or-die games with such great intensity and then it ends abruptly. I think after the initial shock of losing you accept that it's really over. I would think going back out after it's over to play a lower stakes game, to me would feel like a disservice to those guys who won or those who lost before me and didn't get to go out again. If I've lost and I'm done, then let me be done.

Maybe that's melodramatic, but that's how I see it.

I am sure that was the thinking although I don't think they gave an official reasoning.

More kudos to the players in 2010 who did come back and play the next day.

When you're a senior and get a chance to play one last game--just do it. Besides, it is an honor to be chosen-enjoy!!

Is anybody getting this video?  I see the commercial, but then just a spinning thingy.  Sigh.

Finally.  11-10 when it came on.

IWU defense disrupting Cabrini, despite the score.  I haven't seen Lemons making turnovers like this... ever.

Cabrini plays quick and loose, not a lot of set plays - which can be trouble if they face a talented, disciplined team.

I think this one is going to come down to how well IWU can run with Cabrini.  If they get too tired, they'll lose.  If they can keep up, I think they win.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 06:13:21 PM

IWU defense disrupting Cabrini, despite the score.  I haven't seen Lemons making turnovers like this... ever.

This is starting to remind me of the 1970 NAIA tourney game against Kentucky State.  We held their two future NBA players totally in check and got beat by some dude named Bill Graham.  Lemons and Walton-Moss have 1 point between them; Boyd has TWENTY of their 29!

Cabrini's confidence is really trumping IWU's size.  Those big guys just seem a bit tentative with all those quick Cabrini players running all over the place around them.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2012, 06:23:19 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 06:13:21 PM

IWU defense disrupting Cabrini, despite the score.  I haven't seen Lemons making turnovers like this... ever.

This is starting to remind me of the 1970 NAIA tourney game against Kentucky State.  We held their two future NBA players totally in check and got beat by some dude named Bill Graham.  Lemons and Walton-Moss have 1 point between them; Boyd has TWENTY of their 29!

The evangelist or the pro wrestler? ;)

At the half: Cabrini 48, IWU 45.

Lemons and Walton-Moss have combined for 5 points; John Boyd (who had 25 total in the first four games) has 24 at the half! :o

For the Titans, Zimmer has 14, Davis has 9.

(WooBoo, no relation to the evangelist - he'd be at Wheaton ;); no idea about the wrestler.)

This is what I thought might happen.  Gonzalez is keeping Lemons from driving, which is the only way Cabrini knows how to run a half-court set.  They've either got to get back to running, or draw up some new plays.

WIAC refs for this IWU/CAB game. Luckily it's a good set, probably the best the conference has to offer.

Do you think they'd ever choose Gonzalez over Zimmer for the all-star game tomorrow?  He's been really impressive.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:35:44 PM

Do you think they'd ever choose Gonzalez over Zimmer for the all-star game tomorrow?  He's been really impressive.

You've Cabrini in the finals already?  They're down by 2!

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:39:59 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:35:44 PM

Do you think they'd ever choose Gonzalez over Zimmer for the all-star game tomorrow?  He's been really impressive.

You've Cabrini in the finals already?  They're down by 2!

I've doubted them before and they've proved me wrong.  But really I was just asking about IWU because it's obvious who goes from Cabrini.

Quote from: frodotwo on March 16, 2012, 07:24:38 PM
WIAC refs for this IWU/CAB game. Luckily it's a good set, probably the best the conference has to offer.

They really have been letting the contact keep going on both.  Doing a good job so far.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:40:59 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:39:59 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:35:44 PM

Do you think they'd ever choose Gonzalez over Zimmer for the all-star game tomorrow?  He's been really impressive.

You've Cabrini in the finals already?  They're down by 2!

I've doubted them before and they've proved me wrong.  But really I was just asking about IWU because it's obvious who goes from Cabrini.

With the game Boyd is having, it may not be so obvious!  (Unless he's not a senior.)

Quote from: mailsy on March 16, 2012, 07:41:27 PM

Quote from: frodotwo on March 16, 2012, 07:24:38 PM
WIAC refs for this IWU/CAB game. Luckily it's a good set, probably the best the conference has to offer.

They really have been letting the contact keep going on both.  Doing a good job so far.

There's guys limping and wincing all over the place - whichever team wins might be in rough shape for tomorrow.

Boyd is a senior. I'm picking him for my Salem Three Point Contest Fantasy League.

I'd take Karraker from MIT, he has 16 3FGM through 4 games.

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:49:25 PM
I'd take Karraker from MIT, he has 16 3FGM through 4 games.

Yeah, but half of them were in one game.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:51:18 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:49:25 PM
I'd take Karraker from MIT, he has 16 3FGM through 4 games.

Yeah, but half of them were in one game.

Nope, he had games of 7, 5, and 4 3FGM.  He had an off night in the opening round.

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:52:09 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:51:18 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:49:25 PM
I'd take Karraker from MIT, he has 16 3FGM through 4 games.

Yeah, but half of them were in one game.

Nope, he had games of 7, 5, and 4 3FGM.  He had an off night in the opening round.

I was there.  He hit 8 against Staten Island.  Seven in the first half, one in the second.  If that's not in the boxscore, someone made a mistake.

Cabrini by 3 - Knowles with a dagger to win it.

For the 3-point contest among seniors, I'll still take Zimmer.

But Boyd killed us, then Knowles finished the job.

WOW!! Congrats to Cabrini.  :)

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:55:02 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:52:09 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:51:18 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:49:25 PM
I'd take Karraker from MIT, he has 16 3FGM through 4 games.

Yeah, but half of them were in one game.

Nope, he had games of 7, 5, and 4 3FGM.  He had an off night in the opening round.

I was there.  He hit 8 against Staten Island.  Seven in the first half, one in the second.  If that's not in the boxscore, someone made a mistake.

He had 6 in the first half (6-7), 7 total.

http://www.mitathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/2011-12/boxscores/20120309_4gnx.xml

Wow, what a finish!

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 08:07:51 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:55:02 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:52:09 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 07:51:18 PM

Quote from: Hugenerd on March 16, 2012, 07:49:25 PM
I'd take Karraker from MIT, he has 16 3FGM through 4 games.

Yeah, but half of them were in one game.

Nope, he had games of 7, 5, and 4 3FGM.  He had an off night in the opening round.

I was there.  He hit 8 against Staten Island.  Seven in the first half, one in the second.  If that's not in the boxscore, someone made a mistake.

He had 6 in the first half (6-7), 7 total.

http://www.mitathletics.com/sports/m-baskbl/2011-12/boxscores/20120309_4gnx.xml

I'll believe he had only 6, but he didn't miss in the first half.

Very uncharacteristic from MIT.  Not taking care of the ball very well.  This is going to be a great game.  Just two very similar teams going at each other all night.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 08:48:49 PM

Very uncharacteristic from MIT.  Not taking care of the ball very well.  This is going to be a great game.  Just two very similar teams going at each other all night.

Score?  Live stats aren't working for me.

In a commercial right now, I think it's 23-19 WW right now.  Davis has two fouls.

I'm not sure where the officiating crew is from, but they're calling the game tighter than WW is used to - definitely playing to MIT's liking.

Freshman, Paul Dawson, giving MIT some big minutes and Kates some good rest.

25-21, WW.

25-24, WW - 36 seconds until halftime.

Tied at 26 at the half, but Hollingsworth picked up his third foul right at the end.

Quote from: PointSpecial on March 16, 2012, 08:54:37 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 08:48:49 PM

Very uncharacteristic from MIT.  Not taking care of the ball very well.  This is going to be a great game.  Just two very similar teams going at each other all night.

Score?  Live stats aren't working for me.

Tied at the half 26-26 Live stats aren't working for me either.

Strange, because the live stats worked fine for the 1st game.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 08:59:08 PM
In a commercial right now, I think it's 23-19 WW right now.  Davis has two fouls.

I'm not sure where the officiating crew is from, but they're calling the game tighter than WW is used to - definitely playing to MIT's liking.

This would be considered 'letting them play' in the Mid-Atlantic; don't think it's tight at all.

  Engineers(Lehigh) leading Duke by 7 with 2 mins to go.

Quote from: ronk on March 16, 2012, 09:23:09 PM

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 08:59:08 PM
In a commercial right now, I think it's 23-19 WW right now.  Davis has two fouls.

I'm not sure where the officiating crew is from, but they're calling the game tighter than WW is used to - definitely playing to MIT's liking.

This would be considered 'letting them play' in the Mid-Atlantic; don't think it's tight at all.

It's tighter than WW is used to, you can tell from the body language.

44-32 Whitewater.  Davis us playing really well and the defense is really effective at getting MIT out of their rhythm.  They're really dictating pace right now.  12 minutes to go.

It's not over, but MIT will have to work hard.  They're shots aren't falling either.

UWW is doing a great job in transition. Quick, long outlets ... pushing the ball up the floor, attacking the basket early.

It's a pace that MIT doesn't seem to be able to handle well. And even when they do stop the initial attack at the basket, they have Chris Davis to contend with in the halfcourt.

75-70 Lehigh takes out Duke.  Lehigh stopped calling themselves the Engineers several years ago, they are now called the Mountain Hawks.

 Yes, I know that; just used to 50 years of Engineers.

Kates is having an off night; they've relied on him so much during this run they might not be able to adjust when other people have to pick up the slack.

I'll be ok with Davis getting national POY; he's been very good.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2012, 09:43:30 PM
UWW is doing a great job in transition. Quick, long outlets ... pushing the ball up the floor, attacking the basket early.

It's a pace that MIT doesn't seem to be able to handle well. And even when they do stop the initial attack at the basket, they have Chris Davis to contend with in the halfcourt.
[/quote

Quite interesting... I don't think this is Whitewater's MO this year. It's more common of WW teams in the past.

'Course, they've held MIT to 37 with less than 10 mins left in the game... that IS their MO this year!

54-39, WW 4:30 to go.

This one's basically over.  MIT doesn't look like they believe they can come back.  Announcers talking about next season.

MIT just had too many turnovers and too many guys with off nights.  Kates, Karraker, Hollingsworth all having less than stellar nights.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 10:00:59 PM

54-39, WW 4:30 to go.

This one's basically over.  MIT doesn't look like they believe they can come back.  Announcers talking about next season.

MIT just had too many turnovers and too many guys with off nights.  Kates, Karraker, Hollingsworth all having less than stellar nights.

Warhawks playing some pretty good defense.  ;)

Quote from: Knightstalker on March 16, 2012, 09:44:31 PM
75-70 Lehigh takes out Duke.  Lehigh stopped calling themselves the Engineers several years ago, they are now called the Mountain Hawks.

Coach K has got to be one of the classiest guys in the game. Very gracious in defeat. One of the reasons I like Duke.

71-56 Whitewater.

Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2012, 10:00:59 PM

54-39, WW 4:30 to go.

This one's basically over.  MIT doesn't look like they believe they can come back.  Announcers talking about next season.

MIT just had too many turnovers and too many guys with off nights.  Kates, Karraker, Hollingsworth all having less than stellar nights.

The UWW defense had a lot to do with that.

1st game had 2180 in attendence

2nd game had 2342

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2012, 01:24:23 AM
1st game had 2180 in attendence

2nd game had 2342

That's because our fans stuck around, while yours showed up late! 8-)

Would have been a bigger crowd, but half the Titan fans were in Holland. ;)

Cabrini did something tonight last night that very few Mid-Atlantic teams have done and that's win an NCAA tournament game vs a team west of the Ohio River.  Not that these match-ups happen very often, because they really don't, and these have usually gone badly for the Mid-Atlantic team.

Unless I'm missing something, Catholic over Ohio Northern in 2001 was the last to do it.  Heck I don't even see very many Mid-Atlantic teams make a Final Four.  Maybe Lebanon Valley in 1994 over Wittenberg was the next.

So congrats to Cabrini

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2012, 01:49:22 AM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2012, 01:24:23 AM
1st game had 2180 in attendence

2nd game had 2342

That's because our fans stuck around, while yours showed up late! 8-)

Would have been a bigger crowd, but half the Titan fans were in Holland. ;)

Attendance at the Women's Final Four in Holland: 1150
Maybe 400 IWU Fans present - I thought that there would be more. But then again, it's tough to be in two places at the same time. Very few students, but GREAT BAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

What time is the All-Star game and will it be broadcast?

I believe it's at 4 and there will be a live video broadcast. It's supposed to be done by the NCAA, although I admit, I don't see it on their schedule.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2012, 11:00:36 AM
I believe it's at 4 and there will be a live video broadcast. It's supposed to be done by the NCAA, although I admit, I don't see it on their schedule.

I don't like the sound of that. ???

I know the color guy. :) I'll send a note.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2012, 11:27:49 AM
I know the color guy. :) I'll send a note.

Your note must have worked because I just pulled up the video link and the All Star game is listed at 3:30. ;D

All-Star Game is at 4:30 EST.

Quote from: gohope on March 17, 2012, 06:50:51 AM

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2012, 01:49:22 AM

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2012, 01:24:23 AM
1st game had 2180 in attendence

2nd game had 2342

That's because our fans stuck around, while yours showed up late! 8-)

Would have been a bigger crowd, but half the Titan fans were in Holland. ;)

Attendance at the Women's Final Four in Holland: 1150
Maybe 400 IWU Fans present - I thought that there would be more. But then again, it's tough to be in two places at the same time. Very few students, but GREAT BAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would hae to agree with that. I think they have the best band in the CCIW, followed very closly by Carthage.

Although surprised by the low numbers in attendance, even with the men playing. Is it spring break at IWU?

Quote from: newcardfan on March 17, 2012, 12:31:36 PM
Although surprised by the low numbers in attendance, even with the men playing. Is it spring break at IWU?

Its also 75 freaking degrees in Holland in March.  There's no reason to be inside. :)

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 01:57:28 AM
Cabrini did something tonight last night that very few Mid-Atlantic teams have done and that's win an NCAA tournament game vs a team west of the Ohio River.  Not that these match-ups happen very often, because they really don't, and these have usually gone badly for the Mid-Atlantic team.

Unless I'm missing something, Catholic over Ohio Northern in 2001 was the last to do it.  Heck I don't even see very many Mid-Atlantic teams make a Final Four.  Maybe Lebanon Valley in 1994 over Wittenberg was the next.

So congrats to Cabrini

Cabrini made me a believer.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 17, 2012, 12:22:17 PM
All-Star Game is at 4:30 EST.

Where can I find this?  Thanks! ***** Found it!  Thanks anyway!

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2012, 03:01:58 PM

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 01:57:28 AM
Cabrini did something tonight last night that very few Mid-Atlantic teams have done and that's win an NCAA tournament game vs a team west of the Ohio River.  Not that these match-ups happen very often, because they really don't, and these have usually gone badly for the Mid-Atlantic team.

Unless I'm missing something, Catholic over Ohio Northern in 2001 was the last to do it.  Heck I don't even see very many Mid-Atlantic teams make a Final Four.  Maybe Lebanon Valley in 1994 over Wittenberg was the next.

So congrats to Cabrini

Cabrini made me a believer.

  The Ohio runs east-west; where's west of the Ohio? ;)

Big congrats to Middlebury's Ryan Sharry for his MVP performance in the all-star game: 20 pts (7/10), 18 boards in a four pt East win.

10-10, 12 to go in the first half.

Everybody came out tight - lots of missed shots.

I'm functioning as pseudo live stats here since they are down in the gym

http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2012/finals

17-10 Cabrini, 9 to go in the first half.

Cabrini's quick defense is messing with Whitewater.  Cabrini has started driving the lane on offense, which is working pretty well.  I'm not sure WW isn't getting a bit tired already; back on their heels a bit.  They're basically triple teaming Davis and giving up long jumpers to the rest of the team.

21-10 Cabrini - 7 to go.

Early on it looks like the toll MIT took out on Whitewater last night has slowed them enough that they just can't compete with Cabrini's speed.  They look lost and beat early on.  Maybe halftime will wake them up, if they're not too far behind by then.

Cabrini should definitely have coach of the year.  After the all-star game and this performance tonight, I'm changing my national POY vote to Addison from Hardin-Simmons.

25-17, 4 until halftime.  WW is coming alive a little bit.  They're still moving to quickly on offense and giving up a lot of turnovers, but they're moving quicker on defense and they seem to have found a little life.

31-21 at the half, Cabrini up.

Davis is settling for three pointers - his only points are two FTs right now.

43-29 Cabrini, 16 to go in the game.

Whitewater came out strong for about two minutes.  Cabrini is getting into some foul trouble; they've already got 6 in the half.  Rafferty has 4, a couple other guys with 3.

We'll see.

47-37 Cabrini.  WW was down by 18, but they're taking advantage of the foul trouble to be aggressive.

It's not over yet.  12 minutes to go.

51-48 Cabrini.  Miller just fouled out.  WW freshman, Cordell Young single-handedly bringing them back.  WW is also rebounded again.

This game is going to be close. 8:30 to go.

Quote from: ronk on March 17, 2012, 06:33:21 PM

Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2012, 03:01:58 PM

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 01:57:28 AM
Cabrini did something tonight last night that very few Mid-Atlantic teams have done and that's win an NCAA tournament game vs a team west of the Ohio River.  Not that these match-ups happen very often, because they really don't, and these have usually gone badly for the Mid-Atlantic team.

Unless I'm missing something, Catholic over Ohio Northern in 2001 was the last to do it.  Heck I don't even see very many Mid-Atlantic teams make a Final Four.  Maybe Lebanon Valley in 1994 over Wittenberg was the next.

So congrats to Cabrini

Cabrini made me a believer.

  The Ohio runs east-west; where's west of the Ohio? ;)

I think that sac meant the Allegheny River, the main north-south tributary of the Ohio that more or less divides the northeastern part of the country from the midwest.

Tied at 55, three minutes to go.

Cabrini got a little undisciplined with the big lead and now they're not moving nearly as well on offense.  Walton-Moss is doing too much of the ball handling (he looks to shoot first, often when it's not the best play).

Davis is still doing nothing down low, but he's hit two big threes, including one to tie the game at 55.  Lots of foul trouble all around.  Things are looking up for WW, but I've got a guy feeling that Lemons has this under control.  He's not been himself thus far in Salem, but I think he's got the maturity and the experience to reign it in with the title on the line.

Three reasons why UWW has come back in this game despite only getting eight points out of its star:

1. Better defense against the high ball screen that usually sets Lemons or Walton-Moss loose in the halfcourt;
2. Cabrini is playing more tentatively due to foul trouble and a more tightly-called second half; and
3. Quardell Young

61-57 WW.

Davis taking over at the end.  45 seconds to go.

WW by 1 with the ball.  43.9 secs to go.

WW by 3, Cabrini with the ball.  10 seconds left.

Alex Edmunds is the unsung hero of UWW. I've felt that way for a few weeks now.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2012, 08:45:33 PM
Three reasons why UWW has come back in this game despite only getting eight points out of its star:

1. Better defense against the high ball screen that usually sets Lemons or Walton-Moss loose in the halfcourt;
2. Cabrini is playing more tentatively due to foul trouble and a more tightly-called second half; and
3. Quardell Young

Cabrini's shot selection wasn't the best for a few minutes either.  They helped WW out a bit.

Cabrini with another bad outside shot attempt.  WW wins 63-60.

Cabrini won this year playing transition basketball and getting penetration from the half-court.  They had a good 20 minutes of this in the middle of the game, but they just allowed WW to push them out of their game and it cost them.

Great effort by Cabrini, no doubt turned some heads.

But once again the walnut and bronze heads to the Midwest..........along with The Belt^TM

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 08:56:25 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2012, 08:45:33 PM
Three reasons why UWW has come back in this game despite only getting eight points out of its star:

1. Better defense against the high ball screen that usually sets Lemons or Walton-Moss loose in the halfcourt;
2. Cabrini is playing more tentatively due to foul trouble and a more tightly-called second half; and
3. Quardell Young

Cabrini's shot selection wasn't the best for a few minutes either.  They helped WW out a bit.

Good point.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2012, 09:00:14 PM

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 08:56:25 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2012, 08:45:33 PM
Three reasons why UWW has come back in this game despite only getting eight points out of its star:

1. Better defense against the high ball screen that usually sets Lemons or Walton-Moss loose in the halfcourt;
2. Cabrini is playing more tentatively due to foul trouble and a more tightly-called second half; and
3. Quardell Young

Cabrini's shot selection wasn't the best for a few minutes either.  They helped WW out a bit.

Good point.

Also something I noticed was it was WW worrying about the officiating for much of the game, then when they quit complaining and started playing things turned.........and then Cabrini started worrying about the officiating.  Weird.

  Cabrini lost it when they fouled Davis after his defensive rebound - automatic 2 points instead of playing defense with 50 secs to go.

Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Cabrini Fr. Aaron Walton-Moss' career will be interesting to follow.  That kid could easily play at a higher level.

Two big Sr. losses but the majority of that team returns, no doubt they'll be right in the thick of the Mid-Atlantic next season.

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Women's feed cut off just the same way.  Was hoping to watch the Titans get the trophy, etc while watching UWW get theirs right here in front of me at the Salem Civic Center.

Strange.

Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2012, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Women's feed cut off just the same way.  Was hoping to watch the Titans get the trophy, etc while watching UWW get theirs right here in front of me at the Salem Civic Center.

Strange.

You have 2 of our nets now Q.........I'm not forgetting this. ;)

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 09:07:50 PM
Cabrini Fr. Aaron Walton-Moss' career will be interesting to follow.  That kid could easily play at a higher level.

Mid-major D1 without question in my opinion.  Wow is he talented.

Quote from: sac on March 17, 2012, 09:10:01 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2012, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Women's feed cut off just the same way.  Was hoping to watch the Titans get the trophy, etc while watching UWW get theirs right here in front of me at the Salem Civic Center.

Strange.

You have 2 of our nets now Q.........I'm not forgetting this. ;)

3!  I'm pretty sure we're taking both from the gym tonight! :)

(2 sets of ladders up here in Salem right now.)

Davis doesn't do much the entire first but still comes back to lead the Warhawks in scoring with 12 points. Whitewater just got a balanced effort tonight with 4 guys in double figures. For all the talk about Davis' poor night at halftime it was really Cory Lemons who ended up with an off night. Good game to watch though and congratulations to both team for getting there. Especially to Whitewater for coming back from an 18 point deficit with 14 minutes to go.

Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2012, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Women's feed cut off just the same way.  Was hoping to watch the Titans get the trophy, etc while watching UWW get theirs right here in front of me at the Salem Civic Center.

Strange.

The NCAA  did the same thing after both semi final games last night. Cut off within seconds of the game ending. Very rude of them to do this to the fans and the announcers, who are still announcing (and unknown to them, no one is listening).

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:22:03 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2012, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Women's feed cut off just the same way.  Was hoping to watch the Titans get the trophy, etc while watching UWW get theirs right here in front of me at the Salem Civic Center.

Strange.

The NCAA  did the same thing after both semi final games last night. Cut off within seconds of the game ending. Very rude of them to do this to the fans and the announcers, who are still announcing (and unknown to them, no one is listening).

Totally agree.  I was really looking forward to the second IWU team in two weeks cutting down nets at DeVos! ;D  In addition to seeing the trophy presentation (and, I am assuming) Olivia Lett getting the FF MVP.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2012, 09:27:57 PM

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:22:03 PM

Quote from: Titan Q on March 17, 2012, 09:08:49 PM

Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2012, 09:05:49 PM
Why does the video cut off 3 seconds after the game ends? Would be nice if us fans could see a bit of the celebrating and maybe the announcers speaking with the coach and a few players. D Mac and his team did a great job calling the game and then get cut off in mid sentence. NCAA could at least leave the video feed up for a while longer. This is bad. :P

Women's feed cut off just the same way.  Was hoping to watch the Titans get the trophy, etc while watching UWW get theirs right here in front of me at the Salem Civic Center.

Strange.

The NCAA  did the same thing after both semi final games last night. Cut off within seconds of the game ending. Very rude of them to do this to the fans and the announcers, who are still announcing (and unknown to them, no one is listening).

Totally agree.  I was really looking forward to the second IWU team in two weeks cutting down nets at DeVos! ;D  In addition to seeing the trophy presentation (and, I am assuming) Olivia Lett getting the FF MVP.

Perhaps D Mac, with his connections to the NCAA people, could let them know how poor this appears to the fans and perhaps (but I won't hold my breath) this might not happen next year.

Is there a box score of the All Star game available anywhere?

Magic Man:

I have it in hard copy.

Burridge scored 10 points in 25 minutes. 5-for-8, 1-for-3 from three, 3 boards, 4 assists, 1 steals, no turnovers.

Temguoa scored 11 points in 24 minutes. 5-for-9, 1-for-4 from three, 5 boards, 2 assists, 1 turnover.

I know you follow the East region players closely. If you (or anyone else) wants anything more, let me know.

Quote from: gordonmann on March 17, 2012, 11:42:47 PM
Magic Man:

I have it in hard copy.

Burridge scored 10 points in 25 minutes. 5-for-8, 1-for-3 from three, 3 boards, 4 assists, 1 steals, no turnovers.

Temguoa scored 11 points in 24 minutes. 5-for-9, 1-for-4 from three, 5 boards, 2 assists, 1 turnover.

I know you follow the East region players closely. If you (or anyone else) wants anything more, let me know.

Gordon,
Thank you very much for those stats on my East guys. Seemed like Burridge had more than that but it was hard to follow the points scored with all the interviews, which are always neat to see. I was pretty sure Burridge had a 3 pointer which you confirmed for me, 2 dunks, and 2 other baskets but thought I might have missed others. Which leads to the question... was he 5x8 from inside the arc and 1x3 from downtown which would be 13 points? I only ask because if he was 5x8 with a 3 pointer he should have more than 10 points. ;D

On another note, could you please post a link to the NCAA tournament book that you have spent so much time on. I know it was on the front page for a day or two but I can't find it anywhere. Thanks again.

While it isn't as good as live, at least the NCAA did make an archive available:
http://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2012-03-18/diii-mbb-championship-game-fullreplay

and they did go on talking after the broadcast cut out.

Here's the box score and play-by-play statistics.

http://www.nabc.org/NABC_Releases/releases/2011-12_NABC_Releases/031712-nabc-allstar-stats.pdf

Here's the Conference Guidebook.

http://static.psbin.com/2/h/xlzowzzk5zovwr/2011-2012_Conference_Guidebook_v1.pdf

Thanks for the link, nfl...

Quote from: gordonmann on March 18, 2012, 08:20:49 PM
Here's the box score and play-by-play statistics.

http://www.nabc.org/NABC_Releases/releases/2011-12_NABC_Releases/031712-nabc-allstar-stats.pdf

Here's the Conference Guidebook.

http://static.psbin.com/2/h/xlzowzzk5zovwr/2011-2012_Conference_Guidebook_v1.pdf

Gordon,

Thanks for those links. That's one heck of a  job you did on the Conference Guidebook. Plus k and then some. 8-)

Quote from: njf1003 on March 18, 2012, 07:47:31 PM
While it isn't as good as live, at least the NCAA did make an archive available:
http://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2012-03-18/diii-mbb-championship-game-fullreplay

and they did go on talking after the broadcast cut out.

Great to see the game!

  Some thoughts on the season:

    There didn't seem to be any incorrect inregion team status this year with the switch to the new data support group, so it was a fear of mine that didn't materialize;

Concerning men/women's teams of same school worthy of hosting on the same weekend in the NCAA tourney:  neither should be penalized because of the success of the other; let them both host and alternate the afternoon/evening times by weekend(e.g., women play in afternoon; men in evening(Fri/Sat)on 1st weekend and switch on second(next) weekend) rather than sending one of them on the road to the ostensibly 2nd best team in the group; any inconvenience(crowding) pales in comparison to losing out on an earned advantage - it has nothing to do with the idea that hosting does not guarantee winning.     

Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 19, 2012, 08:18:36 PM

Quote from: njf1003 on March 18, 2012, 07:47:31 PM
While it isn't as good as live, at least the NCAA did make an archive available:
http://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2012-03-18/diii-mbb-championship-game-fullreplay

and they did go on talking after the broadcast cut out.

Great to see the game!

Yes, great to see it again ... it would be super-special if the audio was in-sync with the video, however!!   ;)  (it's a second or two off)

Quote from: ronk on March 20, 2012, 12:53:21 AM
  Some thoughts on the season:

    There didn't seem to be any incorrect inregion team status this year with the switch to the new data support group, so it was a fear of mine that didn't materialize;

Concerning men/women's teams of same school worthy of hosting on the same weekend in the NCAA tourney:  neither should be penalized because of the success of the other; let them both host and alternate the afternoon/evening times by weekend(e.g., women play in afternoon; men in evening(Fri/Sat)on 1st weekend and switch on second(next) weekend) rather than sending one of them on the road to the ostensibly 2nd best team in the group; any inconvenience(crowding) pales in comparison to losing out on an earned advantage - it has nothing to do with the idea that hosting does not guarantee winning.   

You've only detailed one of the issues that arises. Your need twice as many hotel rooms and as we've seen often hotel rooms on short notice are already in short supply. You need ample locker room space and not all facilities could do it. You need 12 hours of available practice time on Thursday so each team gets their allotted 90 minutes on the court. You need 8 hours of shootaround time in addition to time for four games on Friday to give each team their allotted time. Not all athletic departments have complete scheduling control over their facilities. Finally, you need to guarantee each tournament is getting the respect of a genuine NCAA tournament experience and not relegating one of them to JV status.

At any facility, at the very least, it will be difficult. At some facilities, it would be impossible.

Just Bill's points are very valid... and then you would get into a "who plays when" along with some teams having to play at say 1 PM... does that seem like the right time for an NCAA Tournament game say in the Sweet 16? Seems like a game that is being buried.

The rotation system that is in place has worked for years... and hasn't been a problem. Everyone knows what the rules are going in... there are no surprises. It is what it is... and the NCAA has already stated that they are hot hosting two full pods at one location on the same weekend. (They put the rotation system in place to keep athletic departments from having to chose one team over the other... the decision is already made.)

Quote from: Just Bill on March 20, 2012, 09:33:36 AM

Quote from: ronk on March 20, 2012, 12:53:21 AM
  Some thoughts on the season:

    There didn't seem to be any incorrect inregion team status this year with the switch to the new data support group, so it was a fear of mine that didn't materialize;

Concerning men/women's teams of same school worthy of hosting on the same weekend in the NCAA tourney:  neither should be penalized because of the success of the other; let them both host and alternate the afternoon/evening times by weekend(e.g., women play in afternoon; men in evening(Fri/Sat)on 1st weekend and switch on second(next) weekend) rather than sending one of them on the road to the ostensibly 2nd best team in the group; any inconvenience(crowding) pales in comparison to losing out on an earned advantage - it has nothing to do with the idea that hosting does not guarantee winning.   

You've only detailed one of the issues that arises. Your need twice as many hotel rooms and as we've seen often hotel rooms on short notice are already in short supply. You need ample locker room space and not all facilities could do it. You need 12 hours of available practice time on Thursday so each team gets their allotted 90 minutes on the court. You need 8 hours of shootaround time in addition to time for four games on Friday to give each team their allotted time. Not all athletic departments have complete scheduling control over their facilities. Finally, you need to guarantee each tournament is getting the respect of a genuine NCAA tournament experience and not relegating one of them to JV status.

At any facility, at the very least, it will be difficult. At some facilities, it would be impossible.

  I agree with all your points; I was espousing a utopian view that only considered the pure competition, not the realities of executing the tournament.