Pat posted the proposed realignment moves - http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2013/02/regional-realignment-coming - for men's basketball.
For the most part they make sense, but moving the WIAC to the Central region (I assume the renaming of Midwest to Central is part of it), doesn't that just create a logjam of top team in one region. Competing for all-region just got harder.
Also, right now at least on d3hoops, Cornell of the IIAC is in the Midwest - will they moving to the west?
Good for Whitworth. No WIAC means an increased chance of 1-2 additional NWC teams making the regional rankings. Tough to get games against "regionally ranked opponents" when the SCIAC is bad and nobody else in your conference can make the rankings...
And more regional awards!
The Championship Handbook currently lists 57 teams in the West Region. d3hoops region list has 59, which, I assume, includes some still provisional members (I don't think Presentation is a full member yet - maybe someone else can help us with the provisional list).
Assuming they gain Cornell, but lose CC, Finlandia, and the WIAC, that's a net loss of 10.
If there are only 47 (or 48) teams, they will only get to rank 7, but if there are 49, they will get to rank 8.
I'm not sure I'm up for doing all the math for all regions, but someone should.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 07:33:07 AM
Also, right now at least on d3hoops, Cornell of the IIAC is in the Midwest - will they moving to the west?
Cornell is in the MWC. They just moved last season. Pat may need to change the conference link on the Midwest region site.
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2013, 08:39:52 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 07:33:07 AM
Also, right now at least on d3hoops, Cornell of the IIAC is in the Midwest - will they moving to the west?
Cornell is in the MWC. They just moved last season. Pat may need to change the conference link on the Midwest region site.
Ok, so that's a net loss of 11 - putting the absolute most they'll have next year at 48, which is just 7 ranking positions.
Essentially the West is losing two Regional Ranking spots with this move.
The Midwest will stay the same - losing 10 HCAC schools, gaining 9 WIACs and Finlandia.
The NCAA lists the Midwest at 50, but d3hoops has 51 on the list. That doesn't matter at all for ranking slots, still 8 either way.
The South currently has 51 listed with the NCAA (53 on d3hoops, but we know there's some provisionals there). They'll lose no one and add Colorado College.
Even with 54 schools, they're still at 8 ranking positions.
Great Lakes has 42 current members (both NCAA and d3hoops lists agree). They'll be adding 10 HCAC schools and 7 AMCC schools.
That puts them all the way up at 59 - given them 9 ranking spots, an addition of three.
The Mid-Atlantic currently has 61 schools (both NCAA and d3hoops agree). They'll be losing 5 NEAC, 4 AMCC, 10 CSAC, and 8 MACF - while gaining Merchant Marine.
A net loss of 26, bringing them down to 35 schools and only 5 ranking spots. They're losing 4.
I know there's some conference realignment coming that will add to this number, adding just one more school gets them up to 6 ranking spots, which is where they'll likely end up.
(The South can lose five schools and still be at 8 ranking spots.)
Noticed, if I'm correct, that the MAC Freedom would stay in the MidAtlantic and the MAC Commonwealth would move to the Atlantic along with the CSAC. Interesting! :-\
So that means with the movement of conferences/teams into the Atlantic, the Atlantic regional rankings would go from 5 to 8 in the Atlantic?
And on another note I'd have to go to another board on a regular basis? :o ;D
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 08:44:02 AM
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2013, 08:39:52 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 07:33:07 AM
Also, right now at least on d3hoops, Cornell of the IIAC is in the Midwest - will they moving to the west?
Cornell is in the MWC. They just moved last season. Pat may need to change the conference link on the Midwest region site.
Ok, so that's a net loss of 11 - putting the absolute most they'll have next year at 48, which is just 7 ranking positions.
Essentially the West is losing two Regional Ranking spots with this move.
Which is really a gain of one spot for everyone else, since the WIAC regularly takes up 3 spots in the rankings.
Quote from: mailsy on February 27, 2013, 09:03:43 AM
Noticed, if I'm correct, that the MAC Freedom would stay in the MidAtlantic and the MAC Commonwealth would move to the Atlantic along with the CSAC. Interesting!
The d3sports article has Freedom moving and Commonwealth staying. Likely Pat will move the CSAC board over to the Atlantic Region.
Northeast is at 75 (both sources agree) and will stay that way, continuing to have 12 ranking slots.
The Atlantic will be adding 18 (10 CSAC and 8 MACF) and losing Merchant Marine for a net of +17.
They've currently got 31 member (both agree), so they will move to 48, which is 7 ranking spots.
Finally, the East has 38 teams (by NCAA, 39 by d3hoops, the difference is likely Houghton). They'll be losing 2 AMCC schools and adding 5 NEAC school for a net of +3.
That will leave a total of 41 (or 42 once Houghton is a full member). In either case, it's six ranking spots.
Penn State-Harrisburg, Christopher Newport, and Southern Virginia will be added to the CAC. That will change a few things.
Harrisburg won't be going to the East with the NEAC; Christopher Newport will be coming to the Mid-Atlantic from the South and Southern Virginia is provisional and not on any lists yet.
So what we're looking at:
Northeast - 12 now, 12 then
East - 6 now, 6 then (although adding a net of two teams)
Atlantic - 5 now, 7 then (adding a net of 17 teams)
Mid-Atlantic - 9 now, 6 then (losing a net of 24 teams)
South - 8 now, 8 then (net change of 0)
Great Lakes - 6 now, 9 then (gaining 17)
Midwest - 8 now, 8 then (net change of 0)
West - 9 now, 7 then (net loss of 11)
There are some provisional schools that have to fill in there, so the numbers might change a little, but this should be the new picture for regional rankings. Clearly the Atlantic and Great Lakes are getting larger at the expense of the Mid-Atlantic and West, but it should help all regions in the end (except the NE, which stays exactly the same).
Dave/Pat,
When you had Mike DeWitt on Hoopsville earlier in the week, I was pleased that you raised the issue of possibly adding "adjoining states" to the regional criteria, as is already the case in D2. Can I assume that that is a separate issue and was not something discussed in this realignment process?
Correct -- expanding the definition of a regional game is not related to this work.
Thanks for the note on Cornell. Thought I had gotten all of those moving parts right, but I guess not.
Keep in mind that the AMCC move is set and goes into effect next academic year, while the rest needs one more sign-off and doesn't go into effect until the following year.
Quote from: monsoon on February 27, 2013, 01:08:30 PM
Dave/Pat,
When you had Mike DeWitt on Hoopsville earlier in the week, I was pleased that you raised the issue of possibly adding "adjoining states" to the regional criteria, as is already the case in D2. Can I assume that that is a separate issue and was not something discussed in this realignment process?
They'll be getting Indiana with this regional realignment. I think all the Indiana schools are moving to the GL region.
Thanks for the reminder, Pat, it is two years on, not next year - so there very well could be more conference realignment before all is said and done.
But now many HCAC/CCIW games will be out of region, so adjacent-states could still be useful there, and definitely for CCIW/MIAA games.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
But now many HCAC/CCIW games will be out of region, so adjacent-states could still be useful there, and definitely for CCIW/MIAA games.
But it won't matter with the new 70% rule, right? Is that a done deal for next year or still tentative?
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
But now many HCAC/CCIW games will be out of region, so adjacent-states could still be useful there, and definitely for CCIW/MIAA games.
But it won't matter with the new 70% rule, right? Is that a done deal for next year or still tentative?
Especially for MIAA teams it could greatly assist
reaching 70% in the first place.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 27, 2013, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 01:57:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
But now many HCAC/CCIW games will be out of region, so adjacent-states could still be useful there, and definitely for CCIW/MIAA games.
But it won't matter with the new 70% rule, right? Is that a done deal for next year or still tentative?
Especially for MIAA teams it could greatly assist reaching 70% in the first place.
Yes, this.
The adjacent states rule helps because Indiana and Michigan are Administrative Region #3. IL and WI are Admin #4.
Ohio (Admin #3) would pick up Pennsylvania (Admin #2) for distances greater than 200 miles!
UOzarks and Hendrix pickup Missouri (most SLIAC schools), a really big help to them out on the isolated corners of every regional configuration that we have, and more than 200 miles from almost everyone!
The NCAA is going to accept and possibly allow exceptions to the 70% rule... and I wouldn't be surprised if Hope and Calvin were given one for one year... but they aren't going to get them that often. Teams like Nebraska Wesleyan and Colorado College (who doesn't need it technically with conference play) are going to be those filing for the exemptions.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
The NCAA is going to accept and possibly allow exceptions to the 70% rule... and I wouldn't be surprised if Hope and Calvin were given one for one year... but they aren't going to get them that often. Teams like Nebraska Wesleyan and Colorado College (who doesn't need it technically with conference play) are going to be those filing for the exemptions.
It's only 4 games beyond MIAA conference play. That's not too tall and order. It seems pretty fair and it will only get easier after next year.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
The NCAA is going to accept and possibly allow exceptions to the 70% rule... and I wouldn't be surprised if Hope and Calvin were given one for one year... but they aren't going to get them that often. Teams like Nebraska Wesleyan and Colorado College (who doesn't need it technically with conference play) are going to be those filing for the exemptions.
It's only 4 games beyond MIAA conference play. That's not too tall and order. It seems pretty fair and it will only get easier after next year.
You would think, but historically that's not been the case.
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2013, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2013, 03:40:50 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2013, 03:31:07 PM
The NCAA is going to accept and possibly allow exceptions to the 70% rule... and I wouldn't be surprised if Hope and Calvin were given one for one year... but they aren't going to get them that often. Teams like Nebraska Wesleyan and Colorado College (who doesn't need it technically with conference play) are going to be those filing for the exemptions.
It's only 4 games beyond MIAA conference play. That's not too tall and order. It seems pretty fair and it will only get easier after next year.
You would think, but historically that's not been the case.
Calvin managed six this year, plus two in the conference tournament. If you assume they're going to get one conference tournament game in any year where it will matter for national tournament selection they only need three non-conference regional games.
I just don't think it's too outrageous to ask.
Hope and Calvin could just play a four game series around the holidays. That's right kids, the MIAA could just start playing non-league games amongst themselves so that they can finally get credit for those games against teams in the CCIW. That's an awful, awful solution but...problem solved. Well, symptom solved. The problem (that we can't just count all of the D3 games and leave it at that) remains. They are so close! Stop toying with it like the half-dead moth your cat pushes around the floor for two hours and just fix it. Count all of the division games.
How hard is that?
BTW, the region realignment is nice. Far more equitable, even though it fails to solve the UAA and Northeast anomalies. Baby steps I guess. And to be fair, this is way more than baby steps. It's definitely a big boy step.
I'm happy about the realignment if for no other reason than the HCAC won't be all over the place. Currently we have football in the north, baseball in the mid-east, mens basketball in the midwest, womens basketball plus mens and womens soccer in the great lakes. It's hard to keep track of everything.
At least there weren't any sports in the northeast or pacific coast or something... then again we have the Indianapolis Colts are in the south so who knows. ::)
So, is it now possible that a game between 2 teams could count for one team and not the other? If Team A plays Team B in an out-of-region contest, and Team A has greater than 70% of regional games then this game is taken into account for them. However, if Team B only has 60% regional games then the game wouldn't count for Team B? Is this possible or am I thinking about this wrong?
Quote from: augie_superfan on February 27, 2013, 09:09:11 PM
So, is it now possible that a game between 2 teams could count for one team and not the other? If Team A plays Team B in an out-of-region contest, and Team A has greater than 70% of regional games then this game is taken into account for them. However, if Team B only has 60% regional games then the game wouldn't count for Team B? Is this possible or am I thinking about this wrong?
Yeah, but again, it's just not that difficult to get 70% - there's only going to be a few who struggle.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
But now many HCAC/CCIW games will be out of region, so adjacent-states could still be useful there, and definitely for CCIW/MIAA games.
Question: would the adjacent states rule mean it is in region if the opponent in question's state is adjacent to your state, or that it is adjacent to your region? For most of the CCIW/MIAA, there is a state between the Illinois and Michigan-based schools regardless of which way you drive around the lake.
Weird, though, that Carthage/Calvin would be in-region under adjacent states but the closer drive of Wheaton/Calvin would not be.
Quote from: kiko on February 27, 2013, 11:01:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2013, 01:53:45 PM
But now many HCAC/CCIW games will be out of region, so adjacent-states could still be useful there, and definitely for CCIW/MIAA games.
Question: would the adjacent states rule mean it is in region if the opponent in question's state is adjacent to your state, or that it is adjacent to your region? For most of the CCIW/MIAA, there is a state between the Illinois and Michigan-based schools regardless of which way you drive around the lake.
Weird, though, that Carthage/Calvin would be in-region under adjacent states but the closer drive of Wheaton/Calvin would not be.
Michigan and Illinois share a border in the middle of Lake Michigan. D2 uses adjacent states and Illinois and Michigan are 'in-region' for them.
I guess I was thinking about land borders, but you're right -- the map usually shows the dotted line border between Illinois and Michigan in the middle of the lake.
If only you could drive from IL to MI without having to trek through scenic Northwest Indiana...
Quote from: kiko on February 28, 2013, 01:19:13 AM
I guess I was thinking about land borders, but you're right -- the map usually shows the dotted line border between Illinois and Michigan in the middle of the lake.
If only you could drive from IL to MI without having to trek through scenic Northwest Indiana...
Ohio and Kentucky don't share a land border either.
Quote from: kiko on February 28, 2013, 01:19:13 AM
I guess I was thinking about land borders, but you're right -- the map usually shows the dotted line border between Illinois and Michigan in the middle of the lake.
If only you could drive from IL to MI without having to trek through scenic Northwest Indiana...
You can, it just takes A LOT longer. :P
Hey, I just realized - Hamilton is in the NESCAC now, right? That means the NE Region will actually gain one team in all of this.
Just what the New England region needs -- another team!!
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2013, 09:08:20 PM
Hey, I just realized - Hamilton is in the NESCAC now, right? That means the NE Region will actually gain one team in all of this.
Hamilton has already been in the NE, so no change here.
Hamilton joined the NE when they joined the NESCAC.
This seems like the perfect topic to bump back to the top ... which may have a number of you wondering why.
There are changes coming: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/diii-championships-committee-supports-regional-realignment?division=d3
Personally, I welcome these to some degree. The details aren't there, I realize, but basically looks like basketball will be a 10-region player with no more than 40 schools (give or take) in each region. Northeast obviously will be broken up.
This will affect football as well. I am hearing six regions.
And my personal "pissed off button" one ... men's lacrosse looks like it will be forced from the two-region model they think works ... to maybe five or six.
We will hopefully chat more with those who helped craft this on Hoopsville Thursday night.
It also has a few more hurdles to go through, but I think this is probably a rubber stamp at this point.
Excited to hear more info and details, but I think it makes sense to balance out these regions. However, I am not well versed in the nuances of NCAA legislatures and logistics so I may be missing some potential drawbacks.
I don't see any drawbacks off the top of my head. It puts all sports into a system that requires certain setups and benchmarks. I think that is good especially sports like men's lacrosse where I think the committee has been committing malpractice the last five or more years. It will break up the Northeast Region into two regions. How and specifics are to be seen.
I took a quick stab at trying to throw teams into 10 regions.
https://twitter.com/FFTMAG/status/1095755480096477185
It's certainly not perfect, but one thing I really like would be to put the Northwest, California, and Texas schools together. They face similar challenges of scheduling and geographic isolation and would be on similar footing with each other with respect to regional rankings.
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It is now or never.
The last week of the Division III basketball regular season is here. Conferences will decide who will earn automatic bids to the NCAA Tournaments and teams try and position themselves for at-large bids, hosting opportunities, and bracketing considerations.
For teams who have been faltering, this is the last chance to right the ship. For programs which have underachieved, this is the last opportunity to live up to expectations. And of course for those with Cinderella dreams, this is the chance to try on the glass slipper.
Sunday's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) will cover it all in a special, extended, episode which for the first time (outside of Marathon programming) will feature a guest from each of the eight regions. We will also discuss which teams may be on the bubble, who has most likely secured at-large bid, and which teams need to win the AQs. Plus, we talk about how regions as we know it now could very well change in the future.
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's show will hit the air at 6:00 p.m. ET. It can be watched live right here: http://bit.ly/2EeG5ZE (and simulcast on Facebook Live and Periscope).
If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.
Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
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- Jonathan Crosthwaite, Occidental men's senior
- Marc Brown, NJCU men's coach
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- Marcos Echevarria, No. 17 Nichols men's senior
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Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 13, 2019, 04:48:21 PM
I took a quick stab at trying to throw teams into 10 regions.
https://twitter.com/FFTMAG/status/1095755480096477185
It's certainly not perfect, but one thing I really like would be to put the Northwest, California, and Texas schools together. They face similar challenges of scheduling and geographic isolation and would be on similar footing with each other with respect to regional rankings.
Baseball does this (and I'm sure they're not alone).
Men's and women's soccer do this as well.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 13, 2019, 04:48:21 PM
I took a quick stab at trying to throw teams into 10 regions.
https://twitter.com/FFTMAG/status/1095755480096477185
It's certainly not perfect, but one thing I really like would be to put the Northwest, California, and Texas schools together. They face similar challenges of scheduling and geographic isolation and would be on similar footing with each other with respect to regional rankings.
Also, from what Titan Q is reporting in the CCIW room, it sounds as though your proposal is sounder than the NCAA's, at least as far as the region described by outgoing CCIW commish Chris Martin is concerned.
Reviving the thread, with the DIII Conference Commissioners approving regional realignment this week at the NCAA Convention by a vote of 40 in favor, 1 opposed, and 2 abstaining--?
(Update-- Credit to Dave McHugh of Hoopsville for the breaking story.😊 A further update will come when minutes are released.)
Get ready for 2021-22 academic year, when a 10 region plan for men's and women's basketball would take effect. I am looking forward to February for details from the Championships Committee and further details on the makeup of the 10 basketball regions. Since the UAA is grandfathered in as a !ulmulti-regional conference, I expect that it will stay that way in the new plans for d3 sports regions.
The effect for basketball for the UAA with respect to basketball RACs is that the UAA gets to choose which RAC its rep will serve on for each 3 year term.
Currently, the UAA reps sit on the East Region RAC for men's hoop, and the Great Lakes RAC for women's hoop. This practice would be expected to continue in the new alignment plan, with different regions getting a chance to have UAA reps sit on their RACs every 3 years.
Update-- as suggested, post modified to give credit as credit is due.
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 08:49:42 AM
Reviving the thread, with the DIII Conference Commissioners approving regional realignment this week at the NCAA Convention by a vote of 40 in favor, 1 opposed, and 2 abstaining--
Get ready for 2021-22 academic year, when a 10 region plan for men's and women's basketball would take effect. I am looking forward to February for details from the Championships Committee and further details on the makeup of the 10 basketball regions. Since the UAA is grandfathered in as a !ulmulti-regional conference, I expect that it will stay that way in the new plans for d3 sports regions.
The effect for basketball for the UAA with respect to basketball RACs is that the UAA gets to choose which RAC its rep will serve on for each 3 year term.
Currently, the UAA reps sit on the East Region RAC for men's hoop, and the Great Lakes RAC for women's hoop. This practice would be expected to continue in the new alignment plan, with different regions getting a chance to have UAA reps sit on their RACs every 3 years.
Feel free to source this ...
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 08:49:42 AM
Reviving the thread, with the DIII Conference Commissioners approving regional realignment this week at the NCAA Convention by a vote of 40 in favor, 1 opposed, and 2 abstaining--
Get ready for 2021-22 academic year, when a 10 region plan for men's and women's basketball would take effect. I am looking forward to February for details from the Championships Committee and further details on the makeup of the 10 basketball regions. Since the UAA is grandfathered in as a !ulmulti-regional conference, I expect that it will stay that way in the new plans for d3 sports regions.
The effect for basketball for the UAA with respect to basketball RACs is that the UAA gets to choose which RAC its rep will serve on for each 3 year term.
Currently, the UAA reps sit on the East Region RAC for men's hoop, and the Great Lakes RAC for women's hoop. This practice would be expected to continue in the new alignment plan, with different regions getting a chance to have UAA reps sit on their RACs every 3 years.
Feel free to source this ...
The provision dealing with UAA representation on the basketball RACs is a section 7.2 of the UAA Basketball Code of Conduct, which link can be found off the UAA Basketball pages. I will try to set up the link to it this weekend, but the section specifically points out what I previously wrote. The section was just added in this season.
Here is the link:
https://www.uaasports.info/information/BasketballCodeofConduct.pdf (https://www.uaasports.info/information/BasketballCodeofConduct.pdf)
I meant ... source where you got the regional information :)
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 02:52:25 PM
I meant ... source where you got the regional information :)
The names of the current UAA RAC reps for basketball are listed on page 10 of both the men's and women's 2019-2020 Pre-Championship Basketball Manuals.
UAA men's basketball RAC rep is Like Flockerzi of Rochester, who sits on the East Region RAC.
The UAA women's basketball RAC rep is Jennifer Reimer of CWRU, who sits on the Great Lakes Region RAC.
If you are looking for something else, I apologize.
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 02:43:42 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 01:26:25 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 08:49:42 AM
Reviving the thread, with the DIII Conference Commissioners approving regional realignment this week at the NCAA Convention by a vote of 40 in favor, 1 opposed, and 2 abstaining--
Get ready for 2021-22 academic year, when a 10 region plan for men's and women's basketball would take effect. I am looking forward to February for details from the Championships Committee and further details on the makeup of the 10 basketball regions. Since the UAA is grandfathered in as a !ulmulti-regional conference, I expect that it will stay that way in the new plans for d3 sports regions.
The effect for basketball for the UAA with respect to basketball RACs is that the UAA gets to choose which RAC its rep will serve on for each 3 year term.
Currently, the UAA reps sit on the East Region RAC for men's hoop, and the Great Lakes RAC for women's hoop. This practice would be expected to continue in the new alignment plan, with different regions getting a chance to have UAA reps sit on their RACs every 3 years.
Feel free to source this ...
The provision dealing with UAA representation on the basketball RACs is a section 7.2 of the UAA Basketball Code of Conduct, which link can be found off the UAA Basketball pages. I will try to set up the link to it this weekend, but the section specifically points out what I previously wrote. The section was just added in this season.
Here is the link:
https://www.uaasports.info/information/BasketballCodeofConduct.pdf (https://www.uaasports.info/information/BasketballCodeofConduct.pdf)
The bold area may be Dave's area of concern.
No... the entire topic and how the commissioners voted ...
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
No... the entire topic and how the commissioners voted ...
I am just going on what Dave reported last night on Hoopsville. I do not have the minutes of yesterday's meeting from the convention. When the NCAA posts them, I will review it. Anything else I wrote on the subject is just my speculative analysis, which is subject to change as more exact details come in.
Me and my big mouth...😕
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 03:26:57 PM
Me and my big mouth...😕
Hey, you keep doing you, Allen, and don't stop doing it. :) I appreciate it when a poster has the time and the desire to try to stay on top of NCAA legislative minutiae. It saves me from having to try to do it myself. ;)
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
No... the entire topic and how the commissioners voted ...
I am just going on what Dave reported last night on Hoopsville. I do not have the minutes of yesterday's meeting from the convention. When the NCAA posts them, I will review it. Anything else I wrote on the subject is just my speculative analysis, which is subject to change as more exact details come in.
Me and my big mouth...😕
I'm just having a little fun ... I worked hard to break a story on the show last night ... having a little love doesn't hurt. :)
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 03:51:44 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on January 24, 2020, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 24, 2020, 03:13:20 PM
No... the entire topic and how the commissioners voted ...
I am just going on what Dave reported last night on Hoopsville. I do not have the minutes of yesterday's meeting from the convention. When the NCAA posts them, I will review it. Anything else I wrote on the subject is just my speculative analysis, which is subject to change as more exact details come in.
Me and my big mouth...😕
I'm just having a little fun ... I worked hard to break a story on the show last night ... having a little love doesn't hurt. :)
All credit to you, Dave... :)
As we continue to follow this, the Regional Expansion has been approved by the Championships Committee. The last step will be the Management's Council: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/proposal-would-affect-when-schools-count-toward-automatic-qualification-waiting-period
We will talk in-depth about this on a Hoopsville show soon - likely Sunday night.
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There is just one week left in the regular season and with it comes conference chaos.
Some conference tournaments are already underway and have seen upsets. It will be the theme of the week. With conference tournaments come upsets. Those upsets will cause teams on the NCAA tournament bubble to have their hopes burst. And there will be some Cinderellas who will capture the headlines.
Could it be any more fun?
Sunday on Hoopsville (starting at a special earlier time) we chat with a few programs who are either looking to avoid the conference chaos or be a part of it.
Plus, there is changes coming to the way we look at the current regional structure. How the process started and flowed for the last 18 or more months. And what you can expect it all to look in the future.
Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Pat Devaney, Sr., NJCU women's coach
- Brad Bankston, ODAC Commissioner- Josh Merkel, No. 2 Randolph-Macon men's coach
- Ashlee Rogers, Marymount women's coach
- Jeff Gard, No. 7 UW Platteville men's coach
- Bob Quillman & Ryan Scott, Top 25 Double-Take
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch Sunday's show
LIVE starting at 6:30 pm ET in the following ways:
- Main page: www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville
- Show page: http://bit.ly/2T6OV1S (or www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2019-20/feb23)
- Facebook Live Simulcast: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
- YouTube Simulcast: www.youtube.com/d3hoopsville
- Team1 Sports: www.team1sports.com/Hoopsville/
- Team1 Sports app (https://team1sports.com/) (Android TV, Amazon Fire, Apple TV, Roku) - you will either find it under the "live" section or search for the Hoopsville channel
Monday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.
Sunday's show primarily covers the Atlantic, Central, South, and Northeast Regions. All men's coaches appear in the NABC Coach's Corner. And all guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline.
If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.
Please also consider helping us out. We are accepting donations to the show - which many of you have asked about. We have updated the goal to $7,500 by the end of Monday, March 2. We are currently at $3,712.52.
We will be raising the goal after tonight!
To donate, click our PayPal link here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=BSRFLPUJQ9MKL&source=url
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I really enjoyed the conversation with Brad Bankston. He couldn't -- and didn't -- give away any details, but he did make it sound like they were trying to pair up the Texas schools with the West Coast schools. If that happens it would look like this:
Region X: 39 Teams
NWC: 9
SCIAC: 9
SCAC: 8
ASC: 12
UC Santa Cruz: 1
I mentioned on the show I did a quick pass at ten regions. This is really a first draft with lots of issues, but I think it shows some of the interesting issues that come with this. Note: I went straight conferences, so if they decide to split some of the more geographically spread leagues, it'll obviously look different.
Region 1 (46)
NESCAC – 11
LEC – 9
MASCAC – 7
NECC – 7
SKY - 12
Region 2 (46)
NEWMAC – 8
CCC – 9
GNAC – 12
NAC – 8
CUNYAC - 9
Region 3 (39)
SUNYAC – 10
E8 – 8
LL – 10
AMCC – 11
Region 4 (45)
NJAC – 10
AEC - 7
CSAC – 8
LAND – 8
NEAC - 12
Region 5 (42)
Centennial - 10
MACF – 8
MACC – 9
CAC – 6
PrAC - 9
Region 6 (38)
NCAC – 10
OAC – 10
MIAA - 8
HCAC - 10
Region 7 (38)
CCIW – 9
ARC – 9
SLIAC – 10
MWC – 10
Region 8 (40)
WIAC – 8
MIAC – 11
UMAC – 9
NACC - 12
Region 9 (46)
USAC – 13
SAA – 8
UAA – 8
ODAC - 13
Region 10 (40)
ASC – 12
SCIAC – 9
NWC – 9
SCAC - 10
I'd love to see the NESCAC and SUNYAC in the same region, but I don't know if they're going to be that ambitious.
OK, so I have not paid much attention to this...
The UAA goes from having teams in multiple regions to every team being in one region?
Ryan, your alignment is quite good. Better than the one I tweeted out when we first heard of the realignment possibilities.
Some things I've come up with that you also hit:
1. NESCAC and NEWMAC need to be in different regions.
2. ARC/MIAC/WIAC/CCIW -- can't have three in one region (I originally did and it looks bad)
3. MIAA/OAC/NCAC/HCAC will be a region unless they don't keep Texas and West Coast paired.
Regions 6-10 lay out rather logically with few choices to make. Regions 1-5 are all mixed and can be balanced by competitiveness however one wants.
I'm guessing they'll keep the UAA split into geographical regions as they do now.
I'm assuming the new look CAC/ACAA will also be split into diff regions??
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2020, 12:43:16 PM
I'd love to see the NESCAC and SUNYAC in the same region, but I don't know if they're going to be that ambitious.
That Region would spread from Waterville Maine to Fredonia, NY. About 700 miles.
Not the biggest, for sure.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Not the biggest, for sure.
Yes, but the roads in a lot of that area aren't the best, esp in the winter.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
1. NESCAC and NEWMAC need to be in different regions.
I haven't been paying all that close attention to this, but would that reason be because of competitiveness?
Quote from: SpringSt7 on February 24, 2020, 06:43:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2020, 12:48:58 PM
1. NESCAC and NEWMAC need to be in different regions.
I haven't been paying all that close attention to this, but would that reason be because of competitiveness?
Yes. Brad Bankston talked about that being part of the mentality when splitting up the regions. He didn't specifically say what conferences were going where, but feel free to listen to the interview we had with him linked prior. It is a pretty good, in-depth explanation of the process this all took.
Quote from: WUPHF on February 24, 2020, 12:47:07 PM
OK, so I have not paid much attention to this...
The UAA goes from having teams in multiple regions to every team being in one region?
Yeah, that's not going to happen. It'd be impossible for any UAA team aside from Emory to pick up regional non-conference contests.
It would be tough with this configuration:
Region 9 (46)
USAC – 13
SAA – 8
UAA – 8
ODAC - 13
Emory would have it easy but Washington University would have to drive to Conway, Arkansas, Danville, Kentucky and Memphis every other season. Rochester and NYU would have to play UAA style weekends in the south.
There are also administrative regions and games within 200 miles (or did they extend that?) So Wash U would be able to play all the SLIAC and CCIW and UMAC and count those as in-region.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 25, 2020, 10:34:01 AM
There are also administrative regions and games within 200 miles (or did they extend that?) So Wash U would be able to play all the SLIAC and CCIW and UMAC and count those as in-region.
It's actually 500 miles, not 200.
UAA schools wouldn't have to play anyone else in that region particularly, although it would help for head-to-head and common opponents in the regional rankings.
Interesting, thanks guys...
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2020, 11:55:37 AM
UAA schools wouldn't have to play anyone else in that region particularly, although it would help for head-to-head and common opponents in the regional rankings.
That's what I was getting at. Thanks, Pat. It's obvious that the radius rule and the administrative region rule would keep the UAA teams eligible in terms of regional games played, but my point was more about the H2H and common opponents stuff. Sticking the UAA in a new Southeast Region would be a major headache for regional rankings purposes.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2020, 12:48:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2020, 11:55:37 AM
UAA schools wouldn't have to play anyone else in that region particularly, although it would help for head-to-head and common opponents in the regional rankings.
That's what I was getting at. Thanks, Pat. It's obvious that the radius rule and the administrative region rule would keep the UAA teams eligible in terms of regional games played, but my point was more about the H2H and common opponents stuff. Sticking the UAA in a new Southeast Region would be a major headache for regional rankings purposes.
I don't think as much changes as people think. Maybe some teams in Texas or north of them (whichever they aren't included with) won't be considered for rankings, but for selections, bracketing, etc., nothing changes.
Quote from: CNU85 on February 24, 2020, 03:10:47 PM
I'm assuming the new look CAC/ACAA will also be split into diff regions??
if so, does this mean ACAA schools get called out separately into different regions while CAC teams go into 1 region? or all just get assigned individually?
Quote from: VT-Alum-NOVA on February 25, 2020, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: CNU85 on February 24, 2020, 03:10:47 PM
I'm assuming the new look CAC/ACAA will also be split into diff regions??
if so, does this mean ACAA schools get called out separately into different regions while CAC teams go into 1 region? or all just get assigned individually?
Likely like the UAA and the current ACAA, assigned to their own individual regions.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2020, 12:58:10 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2020, 12:48:41 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2020, 11:55:37 AM
UAA schools wouldn't have to play anyone else in that region particularly, although it would help for head-to-head and common opponents in the regional rankings.
That's what I was getting at. Thanks, Pat. It's obvious that the radius rule and the administrative region rule would keep the UAA teams eligible in terms of regional games played, but my point was more about the H2H and common opponents stuff. Sticking the UAA in a new Southeast Region would be a major headache for regional rankings purposes.
I don't think as much changes as people think. Maybe some teams in Texas or north of them (whichever they aren't included with) won't be considered for rankings, but for selections, bracketing, etc., nothing changes.
Nothing changes in the formal sense, but, as Pat pointed out, it would become more difficult to properly rank teams for regional ranking purposes when there is very little crossover to aid in the comparison process.
Fair, though I think there are some regions like the West and South currently where that already exists. I don't think we can get rid of it in the West, but Emory does tend to play opponents near them in non-conference. Same with the rest of the UAA. I have a feeling they will be in regions with their geographical brethren. Thus I am not sure how much it will really impact.
Maybe I need to think it through more ...
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It has been a few years since Division III found itself at a place where so many important decisions needed to be made along with other events needing time and attention. However, never in NCAA history have we found ourselves with winter championships cut short, no spring sports at all, and more questions than answers for what might happen with fall sports and beyond.
COVID-19 has certainly made it's mark.
However, the coronavirus isn't the only important item in front of Division III that requires attention and decisions. Expanding and realigning regions in all sports is nearing the end of a multi-year process. The NCAA's effort to revamp it's student-athlete rules with "Names, Images, Likeness" (NIL) is at critical juncture, especially in DIII. And with the shutdown of 'March Madness' brought with it a sudden budget deficit.
That's just what Division III is dealing with overall. Individual schools are fighting just to keep the doors open. That could result in cutting sports, teams, or other challenges. That could cause conferences to tackle sudden changes in membership or sports sponsorships.
And of course, student-athletes and their well-being is even more important.
Plenty to be thinking about in Division III even athletes and teams are not competing right now.
On this special
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) Podcast, NCAA Vice President for Division III Dan Dutcher joins Dave McHugh for an extensive, in-depth, and detailed conversation on the "State of DIII." Dutcher talks about how the decisions to shut down winter and spring championships came to be. Plus, how COVID-19 continues to impact the division, NCAA, schools, and conferences around the country. Dutcher explains how this year's DIII budget was impacted and if there will be any impact down the road. And Dutcher discusses how NIL is taking form in DIII along with the latest on Regional Realignment and Expansion.
You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/3apilyF
Hoopsville broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.
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We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.
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Another significant step for the new regions when they are created for 2021-22: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/regional-rankings-protocol-set-division-iii
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 25, 2020, 04:03:54 PM
Another significant step for the new regions when they are created for 2021-22: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/regional-rankings-protocol-set-division-iii
Interesting read!
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First, we apologize for the "June Podcast" showing up in early July. Computer problems caused havoc this month. Sadly, it delayed our production plans for several weeks, but we are calling this our June edition all the same.When the season came to a sudden close, it left a lot of unfinished business on our end. We didn't have national champions to talk to, but we also had a lot of news to cover. This podcast we take some time to do some catching-up with the season's number one men's team and the Jostens Trophy winners - with Gordon Mann and Ryan Scott picking up the interviewing responsibilities.
And we all know the coronavirus has changed everything this year, but how close to home has it hit you? We talk to one coach who experienced it himself first hand while also having his wife be diagnosed with COVID-19 days after giving birth to their first child.
Guests include:
- Matt Airy, Aurora men's coach
- Sydney Kopp, No. 11 DePauw's Jostens Trophy winner (interviewed by Gordon Mann)
- Kena Gilmour, Hamilton's Jostens Trophy winner (interviewed by Ryan Scott)
- Landry Kosmolski, No. 1 Swarthmore men's coach
Oh, did we mention the Hoopsville Notebook? It is a jam-packed notebook this edition. Plenty of notes regarding coaching hires and changes, athletic decisions per COVID-19, Regional Ranking updates, and much more.
Dave also takes the time to say goodbye to Chris Wenzler, Sports Information Director at John Carroll University, who lost his 26-month battle with cancer. This month's show is dedicated in his honor.
You can listen to the podcast here: https://bit.ly/38i86Nc
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) broadcasts from the WBCA/NABC Studio. All guests are featured on the BlueFrame Technology Hoopsville Hotline. The offseason plan is to do a podcast each month. The shows will be audio-only leading up to the start of the 2020-21 when we will restart the video shows.
If you have questions, ideas, or want to interact with the show, feel free to send them to hoopsville@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options available.
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We also have the podcast now on Tune-In (https://tunein.com/podcasts/Sports--Recreation-Podcasts/Hoopsville-p1153539/) and others coming. We will update them once we have better abilities to do so.
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I ran across this today. Not sure if it was public before or even if this is final. Obviously it's already out of date with some association changes since the summer. It gives us a good look at how they're thinking, though:
...Did they forget Maranatha Baptist exists? (Not that that's a hard thing to do.)
Here's how each region would change this year and be projected to change next year (which I assume is the earliest this could be implemented):
I – Lost Suffolk; gained Cazenovia, Dean, SUNY Cobleskill, and SUNY Poly – will gain SUNY Delhi – 42
II – Lost Pine Manor, gained Suffolk – 34
III – Gained Keuka – 42
IV – Lost Cazenovia, Eastern, Keuka, SUNY Cobleskill, and SUNY Poly; gained Arcadia and Lycoming – will gain St. Mary's (MD) – 38
V – Lost Arcadia and Lycoming; gained Eastern and York (PA) – 43
VI – Lost York (PA); gained Brevard and Pfeiffer – will lose St. Mary's (MD) and gain Mary Baldwin – 40
VII – Lost D'Youville – 49
VIII – Lost MacMurray – will lose Iowa Wesleyan and gain St. Norbert – 42
IX – Will lose St. Norbert and St. Thomas (MN) – 46
X – Will lose Louisiana College – 38
I'd like them to move Skyline to 2, CUNYAC to 3, and CSAC to 4. I think that evens things out a bit better, but this is fine. I'm sure things will still get changed a bit before it's implemented.
Quote from: Inkblot on October 08, 2020, 02:33:42 PM
...Did they forget Maranatha Baptist exists? (Not that that's a hard thing to do.)
Here's how each region would change this year and be projected to change next year (which I assume is the earliest this could be implemented):
I – Lost Suffolk; gained Cazenovia, Dean, SUNY Cobleskill, and SUNY Poly – will gain SUNY Delhi – 42
II – Lost Pine Manor, gained Suffolk – 34
III – Gained Keuka – 42
IV – Lost Cazenovia, Eastern, Keuka, SUNY Cobleskill, and SUNY Poly; gained Arcadia and Lycoming – will gain St. Mary's (MD) – 38
V – Lost Arcadia and Lycoming; gained Eastern and York (PA) – 43
VI – Lost York (PA); gained Brevard and Pfeiffer – will lose St. Mary's (MD) and gain Mary Baldwin – 40
VII – Lost D'Youville – 49
VIII – Lost MacMurray – will lose Iowa Wesleyan and gain St. Norbert – 42
IX – Will lose St. Norbert and St. Thomas (MN) – 46
X – Will lose Louisiana College – 38
Maranatha is on restricted membership due to various violations and I think they're just going to leave the division/NCAA completely.
Oh, those wacky Maranatha Baptist kids and their freewheeling, anything-goes lifestyle!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Yn7mzxGXjtsI/giphy.gif)
I have not seen this posted anywhere else or for any other sport, but Cross Country posted regional realignment and names today. I have not done all the double checking, but it seems consistent with the regions Ryan posted just with different numbers.
Names: East, Mideast, Niagara, Mid-Atlantic, Metro, Great Lakes, South, North, Midwest, and West.
http://www.ustfccca.org/2021/07/featured/ncaa-division-iii-approves-10-region-realignment-model-cross-country
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/crosstrack/d3/crosscountry/2021-22D3XCC_RegionalRealignment.pdf
Quote from: PauldingLightUP on July 08, 2021, 05:05:50 PM
I have not seen this posted anywhere else or for any other sport, but Cross Country posted regional realignment and names today. I have not done all the double checking, but it seems consistent with the regions Ryan posted just with different numbers.
Names: East, Mideast, Niagara, Mid-Atlantic, Metro, Great Lakes, South, North, Midwest, and West.
http://www.ustfccca.org/2021/07/featured/ncaa-division-iii-approves-10-region-realignment-model-cross-country
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/crosstrack/d3/crosscountry/2021-22D3XCC_RegionalRealignment.pdf
The PDF has St. Thomas (MN) in the North Region. Are they still competing in D3 this year?
New regions announced yet?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on August 29, 2021, 08:26:25 PM
New regions announced yet?
Pat set up the pages on the site last night.
Finlandia needs a home too, I assume region 9.
Quote from: sac on August 29, 2021, 09:26:21 PM
Finlandia needs a home too, I assume region 9.
Finlandia is in the C2C, in Region 6.
(Ripon fixed, thanks for the catch, Baldini.)
The realignment means, I assume, that you will be renaming the regions on these boards as well???
I'm sure there are other odd regional placements, but some that stuck out to me are Hendrix, Rhodes, and Finlandia in Region 6. Seems like the first two could go in Region 8 and Finlandia in Region 9.
Not really criticizing, as I'm sure this was challenging for the NCAA.
Are they splitting up the MAC-Commonwealth into two regions? Albright and Eastern (region 4) look to be in different regions compared to the rest of the Commonwealth in Region 5.
Quote from: D3RetiredHooper on August 30, 2021, 10:18:22 AM
Are they splitting up the MAC-Commonwealth into two regions? Albright and Eastern (region 4) look to be in different regions compared to the rest of the Commonwealth in Region 5.
I believe the list came out before some of these conferences changed. We'll get it straightened out eventually.
Looks like maybe Lynchburg is missing from Region 6.
Quote from: y_jack_lok on August 30, 2021, 09:27:12 AM
The realignment means, I assume, that you will be renaming the regions on these boards as well???
I'm sure there are other odd regional placements, but some that stuck out to me are Hendrix, Rhodes, and Finlandia in Region 6. Seems like the first two could go in Region 8 and Finlandia in Region 9.
Not really criticizing, as I'm sure this was challenging for the NCAA.
They're primarily organized by conference. I think the UAA is the only exception.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2021, 07:32:23 PM
Quote from: y_jack_lok on August 30, 2021, 09:27:12 AM
The realignment means, I assume, that you will be renaming the regions on these boards as well???
I'm sure there are other odd regional placements, but some that stuck out to me are Hendrix, Rhodes, and Finlandia in Region 6. Seems like the first two could go in Region 8 and Finlandia in Region 9.
Not really criticizing, as I'm sure this was challenging for the NCAA.
They're primarily organized by conference. I think the UAA is the only exception.
Think of Region 6 as the South Atlantic and the SAA fits.
Thanks, Pat amd Ryan.
Are the boards changing to coincide the new regional alignments?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 01, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
Are the boards changing to coincide the new regional alignments?
I assume so. I'd do it now, but I don't have the permissions.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 01, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 01, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
Are the boards changing to coincide the new regional alignments?
I assume so. I'd do it now, but I don't have the permissions.
And I thought you were special.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 01, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 01, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
Are the boards changing to coincide the new regional alignments?
I assume so. I'd do it now, but I don't have the permissions.
You mean you're still on probation? ;)
Quote from: ronk on September 01, 2021, 08:30:49 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on September 01, 2021, 08:04:36 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 01, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
Are the boards changing to coincide the new regional alignments?
I assume so. I'd do it now, but I don't have the permissions.
You mean you're still on probation? ;)
I never made it to Hall of Famer. I hear they have magical powers.
(https://media.tenor.co/images/7f6402cf7df54cdf24505ee7895326aa/raw)
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on September 01, 2021, 05:23:08 PM
Are the boards changing to coincide the new regional alignments?
Hope not. They make more sense as they are now.
Regional rankings are out or coming ! Yes, we know not for basketball season, but the fall sports especially football are already dealing with some changes that are more than a little confusing. These sorts of things are handled in the same manner across all Division III team sports, so in this bonus podcast, we are talking about the upcoming changes with Pat Coleman, the host of D3football.com Around the Nation Podcaswt, which is the podcast for Division III football. It's a little bit of D3hoops.com/D3football.com crossover!
What's coming? Why are they changing? Whose bright idea was it, and what did they hope would come out of it? Pat and Dave talk about it all in this bonus podcast.
https://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2020-21/bonus-reg-rankings
So, is the only difference in the 1st basketball ranking(this season vs past seasons): that it will be done alphabetically instead of numerically? In either case, done without results vs regionally ranked opponents.
Quote from: ronk on October 25, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
So, is the only difference in the 1st basketball ranking(this season vs past seasons): that it will be done alphabetically instead of numerically? In either case, done without results vs regionally ranked opponents.
Correct. However, as a result, I agree with "D-Mac" that an extra week of regional rankings should be added for the 2022-2023 academic year in all DIII sports to compensate for the perceived "loss" of a regional ranking where teams are released in numerical rank order. For basketball season, fans may not get an accurate picture of who may be in or who may be out of NCAAs based on just 2 weeks of public regional rankings before selection where teams are ranked in numerical rank order. I listened to the podcast on Friday where "D-Mac" was livid at the DIII Men's Basketball Committee for making this proposal to the Championships Committee and having it accepted-- he thought that it violated the obligation of transparency that DIII fans deserve.
Of course, with more evaluation regions this year, it is a possibility that Pool C bids may not be awarded to any team below a #3 line in any evaluation region this year thanks to having more games counting as results vs DIII ranked teams. Or it is also possible, depending on the strength of the evaluation region, that we could have a team ranked first in an evaluation region lose their conference tournament AQ and not make it in as a Pool C at large bid, depending on what the schedule of the team ranked first in the Week 3 rankings for that region revealed about which opponents that team played.
You have SUNY New Paltz listed in Region IV with the rest of the SUNY schools listed in Region III.
?
Quote from: thebear on November 10, 2021, 01:00:50 PM
You have SUNY New Paltz listed in Region IV with the rest of the SUNY schools listed in Region III.
?
Thanks. We'll get it fixed.
I know they don't want to split up conferences... but keeping all the C2C together seems weird. Is it really a "region" anymore when it stretches across most of the country? The southeast Region 6 contains Brooklyn, the the U P of Michigan, and California. Pratt to UC-Santa Cruz is 2966 miles in the same region while Pratt to St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) is a couple blocks away but different regions. :-\
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 10, 2021, 06:54:18 PM
I know they don't want to split up conferences... but keeping all the C2C together seems weird. Is it really a "region" anymore when it stretches across most of the country? The southeast Region 6 contains Brooklyn, the the U P of Michigan, and California. Pratt to UC-Santa Cruz is 2966 miles in the same region while Pratt to St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) is a couple blocks away but different regions. :-\
You just have to accept the C2C for what it is... Pool B with Conference rights. It's ridiculous but at the same time it isn't harming anything.
The C2C is just a name change for the CAC, which was already assigned to that region before they teleported into Goldblumesque accident.
Quote from: jknezek on November 10, 2021, 09:47:05 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 10, 2021, 06:54:18 PM
I know they don't want to split up conferences... but keeping all the C2C together seems weird. Is it really a "region" anymore when it stretches across most of the country? The southeast Region 6 contains Brooklyn, the the U P of Michigan, and California. Pratt to UC-Santa Cruz is 2966 miles in the same region while Pratt to St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) is a couple blocks away but different regions. :-\
You just have to accept the C2C for what it is... Pool B with Conference rights. It's ridiculous but at the same time it isn't harming anything.
It's not the C2C I have a problem with... I just don't know why all the teams should be grouped in the same region. Region 6 is essentially the southeast... I wouldn't consider NY, California, or Michigan to be anywhere near that region. If teams were relatively close to the geographic footprint of the rest of the region I can understand lumping them in But there are much better options for those teams to be listed. UC-Santa Cruz should be region 10, Finlandia region 9, Pratt region 4. And what happens when the C2C ceases somewhere down the line... they'll just get moved back in their proper region again.
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 11, 2021, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: jknezek on November 10, 2021, 09:47:05 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on November 10, 2021, 06:54:18 PM
I know they don't want to split up conferences... but keeping all the C2C together seems weird. Is it really a "region" anymore when it stretches across most of the country? The southeast Region 6 contains Brooklyn, the the U P of Michigan, and California. Pratt to UC-Santa Cruz is 2966 miles in the same region while Pratt to St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) is a couple blocks away but different regions. :-\
You just have to accept the C2C for what it is... Pool B with Conference rights. It's ridiculous but at the same time it isn't harming anything.
It's not the C2C I have a problem with... I just don't know why all the teams should be grouped in the same region. Region 6 is essentially the southeast... I wouldn't consider NY, California, or Michigan to be anywhere near that region. If teams were relatively close to the geographic footprint of the rest of the region I can understand lumping them in But there are much better options for those teams to be listed. UC-Santa Cruz should be region 10, Finlandia region 9, Pratt region 4. And what happens when the C2C ceases somewhere down the line... they'll just get moved back in their proper region again.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm explaining that the CAC was already assigned to a region before all this mess. They're not going to unilaterally break up a conference into different regions, especially when they don't know what other conferences these teams might be in two years down the line.
Then there's the State University of New York with 20 campuses playing at the D3 level, but 4 in Region 1, 14 in Region 3, Morrisville in Region 4 [except for hockey], and Alfred State in Region 7. SUNYAC doesn't want to expand beyond 10, and everyone wants to be in an autobid conference.