I like Johnny U's prediction of:
Concordia(TX) Pool Team
1 A Linfield
2 A Cal Lutheran
3 A Texas-Tyler
4 A Trinity (Texas)
5 C Coe
6 C Pomona-Pitzer
GF did themselves in IMO loosing 3 to Linfield to end the season.
First really big game of the tournament will be T-T vs TU. Loser will be in trouble, with T-T in really big trouble with a slimmer pitching staff.
We will find out for sure on the 5,6 seeds shortly.
Didn't see PP AND TLU getting in. Also didn't see TU dropping to #5. I guess they didn't want the Texas or California teams playing each other in the first round.
Here is a link to the Concordia NCAA home page:
http://athletics.concordia.edu/sports/2013/5/8/BB_0508130508.aspx
Everyone knows by now teams are:
West Regional at Tornado Field; Austin, Texas
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Texas-Tyler
4. Pomona-Pitzer
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran
I guess swapping PP and TU prevents CLU playing PP. Certainly hurts CLU as a 2 seed.
For first round games I have:
1. Linfield should handle TLU.
2. TU upsets CLU.
3. TT should handle PP.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 13, 2013, 11:26:30 AM
Here is a link to the Concordia NCAA home page:
http://athletics.concordia.edu/sports/2013/5/8/BB_0508130508.aspx
Everyone knows by now teams are:
West Regional at Tornado Field; Austin, Texas
1. Linfield
2. Cal Lutheran
3. Texas-Tyler
4. Pomona-Pitzer
5. Trinity (Texas)
6. Texas Lutheran
I guess swapping PP and TU prevents CLU playing PP. Certainly hurts CLU as a 2 seed.
For first round games I have:
1. Linfield should handle TLU.
2. TU upsets CLU.
3. TT should handle PP.
Trinity-CLU has to be the best first round matchup in the country right? ABCA's 3rd and 6th nationally ranked teams playing each other, Lucero against that ridiculous offense, SCIAC MVP Petersen on the mound and at the plate with his 5th highest BA in the country... should be fun to watch.
Which team has the best chance of upsetting Linfield?
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 13, 2013, 03:25:00 PM
Which team has the best chance of upsetting Linfield?
Whoever wins in the Cal Lu/Trinity game
Always feel like this is one of the most important numbers come tournament time
Linfield - .975 (#2 in nation)
Cal Lu - .964
UT Tyler - .978 (#1 in nation)
P-P - .947
TU - .959
TLU - .973 (#9 in nation)
I give up; I don't have a clue what these numbers are ???
I believe fielding % ILVBB.
Quote from: ILVBB on May 13, 2013, 04:39:40 PM
I give up; I don't have a clue what these numbers are ???
Sorry, They are fielding %.
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 13, 2013, 03:25:00 PM
Which team has the best chance of upsetting Linfield?
St. Thomas or Southern Maine.....!
Cal Lutheran
Batting Average 1st (.360)
Runs scored per game 2nd(9.4)
Runs 2nd(396))
Hits 1st(544)
Doubles 1st(111)
Triples 2nd(26)
On Base Percentage 2nd (.436)
Slugging Percentage 4th (.504)
RBI's 1st (65) - Nick Boggan
Total Bases 1st (155) Nick Boggan
WHIP 3rd (.75) Aaron Roth
Im going out on a limb and predict the 2 ASC teams both go 0-2. I just didnt see enough out of the conference this year to think they will be competitive at all in this regional. Trinity I think will be fortunate to win one game. I dont like the Texas teams in this regional.
I am picking either Linfield or Cal Lutheran to move on to Appleton in 2013.
Some stats for the teams that are in the West Region and how they stack up Nationwide (from NCAA.com)
These are teams in the West Region that are ranked in the top 10 in the country by catagory.
Batting Average - #1 Cal Lutheran
Runs Scored - #2 Cal Luteran
ERA - # 4 Trinity; #7 Linfield
Fielding % - #1 UT Tyler; #2 Linfield; #9 Texas Lutheran
Interesting that our region has some of the best teams in each of these catagories nationwide.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 13, 2013, 05:42:02 PM
I am picking either Linfield or Cal Lutheran to move on to Appleton in 2013.
Living life on the edge, I see ;D
Those two teams are clearly the favorites. They've both had spectacular seasons. They succeed in all aspects of the game. I think Linfield has a little more depth on the mound, but I also think Cal Lu's offense will start smashing teams as pitching runs out. These two teams won't be able to meet until at least the third game... It's a toss up but my pick would be Linfield. The way the came down and dominated in So Cal was pretty impressive.
Moving past the data and empirical evidence portion of the speculation, there may be something to the fact that PP and Texas Lutheran come in as teams that feel like they've been given a second life. They've got nothing to lose, and get a chance to prove a lot of people wrong. Not sure that's enough for TLU to overcome Linfield in the opening game, though.
But I really do think PP can and will go out and beat UTT. They're incredibly excited to be in the tournament. This is the program's first at-large bid of the six appearances they've had this millenium. It adds a new dynamic to a team/program that has underperformed in past regionals. This year's seniors were in Oregon as freshmen and know what it's like to beat UTT and Linfield (albeit very different UTT and Linfield teams), but they also know how quickly a good start can turn into mush and an early flight home. There's a lot of character on that team, battling through injuries to three of their top arms and immediately overcoming some bad games/moments (IE giving up 10 runs in the 7th to Redlands in the SCIAC tournament, then winning both of their games the next day). Bruml, their ace, will go in the first game. He's been good all year and UTT's offense isn't very scary. Put up a few runs against Chance Cotton (GREAT baseball name by the way), and they can definitely win it.
That also allows them some interesting options if they play CLU (PP win and CLU win) or Linfield (PP loss and Linfield win) in the second game. CLU hasn't seen much of Majev, so he could start against them and he's been great recently. Linfield didn't see much of Gano, so he could start against them and he's also been great recently.
PP's biggest question mark, as evidenced in the SCIAC tournament, is the same as CLU's- pitching depth. With all the injuries, it's going to be tough on the staff if they make it to a game four/five. They've also had struggles on defense- most of them clumping together for some really horrific innings/games. But I don't think they're a bad defensive team by any means.
It'll all depend on who steps up at the right time.
Can't wait, go Hens!
Here are the full stats by rank.
Team BA Runs Scoring HR/gm Slugging SB BoB ERA K/9 F%
CLU 1 2 2 46 4 154 67 47 87 35
Linfield 24 14 19 11 14 31 16 7 132 2
T-T 161 47 131 79 67 131 67 42 82 1
P-P 48 23 57 68 50 314 50 80 260 237
TU 16 12 20 51 16 61 60 4 2 90
TLU 212 96 197 146 224 45 64 19 48 9
National Rank
Johnny U help! how do I insert a table???
|
Tyler's advantage over PP is pitching and defense. Cotten is a very good starter and teams don't hit him well. Tyler also has a very good set-up man and closer who has 15 saves this year. The Patriots are an opportunistic offense that will score in bunches if you make a fielding mistake or an utimely walk or hit batter. So P-P which ranks 237 in fielding percentage will be going up against the best defense in the country. Tyler just won't beat themselves. I give them the edge in this first game.
I wish the table came out better, but I agree with TexasBB, at least in the first game TT pitching and defense will be too good, and P-P will likely make a mistake that will cost them the game. It could easily be a 2-0 game.
I think Linfield is just too good for TLU. TLU will make it a game IMO and Linfield better not look beyond them.
I think that TU has enough offense and balance to beat CLU, particularly with Lucero who is 27-3 or something close to this. I think he is crafty enough to work through the CLU line up and hold them to 3 runs or less and I don't think the front end of the CLU rotation can hold TU to less than this, by the time they get to Roth it will be too late. TU's defense was much better in the back half of the year and as long as it holds they should win. They will lose if they kick the ball around at all.
What type of playing surface will be in play for the regional? If it is anything like the McMurray field of a couple years ago, I don't think Linfield will fair very well. Their pitching really induces a lot of ground balls and choppers which is very beneficial on the soft turf at Linfield (Ball really dies when chopped vs. launching 30 ft in the air for an infield hit). I'm not trying to say that the field determines who wins, but a soft ground/turf field would greatly benefit this year's Linfield chances
Quote from: playball on May 13, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
What type of playing surface will be in play for the regional? If it is anything like the McMurray field of a couple years ago, I don't think Linfield will fair very well. Their pitching really induces a lot of ground balls and choppers which is very beneficial on the soft turf at Linfield (Ball really dies when chopped vs. launching 30 ft in the air for an infield hit). I'm not trying to say that the field determines who wins, but a soft ground/turf field would greatly benefit this year's Linfield chances
Concordia has a great facility. Just built in the last year or two and the entire playing surface if field turf I believe. Not sure if it plays quicker or slower than a traditional grass surface though.
http://athletics.concordia.edu/photo_gallery.aspx?gallery=71
Quote from: playball on May 13, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
What type of playing surface will be in play for the regional? If it is anything like the McMurray field of a couple years ago, I don't think Linfield will fair very well. Their pitching really induces a lot of ground balls and choppers which is very beneficial on the soft turf at Linfield (Ball really dies when chopped vs. launching 30 ft in the air for an infield hit). I'm not trying to say that the field determines who wins, but a soft ground/turf field would greatly benefit this year's Linfield chances
It is all field turf, but plays much faster that Linfield's does.
Quote from: playball on May 13, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
What type of playing surface will be in play for the regional? If it is anything like the McMurray field of a couple years ago, I don't think Linfield will fair very well. Their pitching really induces a lot of ground balls and choppers which is very beneficial on the soft turf at Linfield (Ball really dies when chopped vs. launching 30 ft in the air for an infield hit). I'm not trying to say that the field determines who wins, but a soft ground/turf field would greatly benefit this year's Linfield chances
Two of Linfield's three starters are fly ball pitchers, so I am not sure where you are getting that information from. And their infield is definitely the strong point of their defense. Of course, turf helps any team defensively...
I also don't think they will overlook anyone in this tournament. Getting smashes by LC State a week ago was definitely an eye-opener. Anyone can beat them on any given day, but that team will have to play its best ball.
Three teams ranked in the top 10... It is a bummer I will miss most of these games due to work.
http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2013/previews/west-regional-playoff-preview
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2013/previews/west-regional-playoff-preview
Allan Roth???? Must be the brother of Aaron Roth.
Quote from: Westside4 on May 13, 2013, 09:25:43 PM
Three teams ranked in the top 10... It is a bummer I will miss most of these games due to work.
Video feed...plus a quick "alt tab" ;D
I gueass paying attention to details isn't real high on the list today. From the CLU web-page:
"In 2012, CLU and TU met on the diamond with the Tigers earning a 5-0 victory at the Desert Classic in Anthem, Ariz. on Feb. 17."
Considering Trinity did not play in Arizona in 2012 I would say that is a pretty good feat. ::)
The mark of a great team is winning games that they didn't play ;D
Quote from: Jack Parkman on May 14, 2013, 10:39:45 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 14, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
http://www.d3baseball.com/playoffs/2013/previews/west-regional-playoff-preview
Allan Roth???? Must be the brother of Aaron Roth.
Thanks for the proofread!
Something funny happened to the UT-T paragraph in editing, Ralph:
QuoteTexas-Tyler has been knocking of the door for a while and although they have been in position to make it through the regional, they are still ifor their first appearance in the D-III World Series. First-year coach Chris Bertrand has a team that once again will be a strong contender but that will be
Thanks for the preview!
Other than a 50-50 chance of some rain tomorrow during the day the weather should be good for the regional. It will get hot towards the weekend with highs rounding into seasonal norms (upper 80's-low 90's).
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 14, 2013, 01:32:10 PM
Something funny happened to the UT-T paragraph in editing, Ralph:
QuoteTexas-Tyler has been knocking of the door for a while and although they have been in position to make it through the regional, they are still ifor their first appearance in the D-III World Series. First-year coach Chris Bertrand has a team that once again will be a strong contender but that will be
Thanks for the preview!
Other than a 50-50 chance of some rain tomorrow during the day the weather should be good for the regional. It will get hot towards the weekend with highs rounding into seasonal norms (upper 80's-low 90's).
Uh-oh... just waiting for someone to mention that it should have been held in sunny SoCal ;)
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
Quote from: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
I certainly don't mind visiting ATX, but ideologically I couldn't live in a place that blue (especially in Texas) or so overrun with Hipsters. And don't get me started on the MOPAC/I-35 traffic situation.
JSG
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 14, 2013, 02:25:44 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
I certainly don't mind visiting ATX, but ideologically I couldn't live in a place that blue (especially in Texas) or so overrun with Hipsters. And don't get me started on the MOPAC/I-35 traffic situation.
JSG
I'll second that. It's a little blue for my tastes too. Nearby San Antonio is also a great place to visit for those of you coming from out of state.
Pomona is the bluest of the teams. That should help them.
A couple of the other team wear purple. :P
Quote from: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
...except there's no beaches, mountains, deserts, etc.....!!
Quote from: Whatagame on May 14, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
...except there's no beaches, mountains, deserts, etc.....!!
There is also no state tax and no unemployment rates in double digits.
Quote from: Westside4 on May 13, 2013, 09:25:43 PM
Quote from: playball on May 13, 2013, 08:56:54 PM
What type of playing surface will be in play for the regional? If it is anything like the McMurray field of a couple years ago, I don't think Linfield will fair very well. Their pitching really induces a lot of ground balls and choppers which is very beneficial on the soft turf at Linfield (Ball really dies when chopped vs. launching 30 ft in the air for an infield hit). I'm not trying to say that the field determines who wins, but a soft ground/turf field would greatly benefit this year's Linfield chances
Two of Linfield's three starters are fly ball pitchers, so I am not sure where you are getting that information from. And their infield is definitely the strong point of their defense. Of course, turf helps any team defensively...
I also don't think they will overlook anyone in this tournament. Getting smashes by LC State a week ago was definitely an eye-opener. Anyone can beat them on any given day, but that team will have to play its best ball.
Three teams ranked in the top 10... It is a bummer I will miss most of these games due to work.
Seeing your post made me go back and recheck the stats provided by the Linfield site. Zach Brandon has more groundouts than fly outs, but only by 6 so its pretty much a wash. Thomassen has a 1.3 flyout to groundout ratio, while Haddeland has a .4 (50 flyouts to 138 groundouts!!) And overall as a staff the team has more groundouts than flyouts which means that they are overall a team that pitches lower in the strikezone or mixing off speed pitches effectively which both induce groundballs, both are signs of good pitching! The quality of infielders was not being questioned. The hops at McMurray were so large that the ball would be A)would reach a height that when it would come down it would be too late to make a play or B) be chopped over infielders heads because the ground was so hard.
You may want to find your own stats to back up your critique.
I'm still not saying that the playing surface is the make or break point of Linfield's chances. Just that when it comes to tournament time, any small advantage/disadvantage can make a big difference.
I think you are sleeping on the quality of the Linfield outfield as well. Those kids can fly and have a lot of experience.
LC State, oh well.
Go Cats!
Quote from: Patriotfan87 on May 14, 2013, 03:26:51 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 14, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
...except there's no beaches, mountains, deserts, etc.....!!
There is also no state tax and no unemployment rates in double digits.
Ouch... There is Lake Travis (scenery can be just as good), it's in the tiny mountain (hill) country, and they have deserts (they're just covered with grass)... People visiting the Austin area should have a great time. The OC is a great destination for a regional as well though.
Keep Austin Weird!
How about a little David Allen Coe and some Jerry Jeff Walker music.
David Allan Coe; You Never Even Called Me By My Name (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9coh7mBHwr4) The perfect country and western song!
Jerry Jeff Walker; Desperados waiting for a train (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4cFIjqdxzA)
The story behind Ray Wylie Hubbard; Redneck Mother (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E24C4NY0ga8)
Redneck Mother (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=PTVUsCTn2Ug&feature=endscreen)
Gary P Nunn; London Homesick Blues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm7rZteLnac)
Some Austin City Limits.
Best Idea yet!
Ron Boerger to play the National Anthem on his horn!
Jerry Jeff just so happens to be in town Friday and Saturday night at the historic Gruene Hall. Only a short hour drive down I35 from Concordia. The champion should be crowned by 7. Plenty of time to head south, grab a bite to eat at the Gristmill and experience the 'countrier' side of things!
http://www.gruenehall.com/
http://www.gristmillrestaurant.com/
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 14, 2013, 04:27:35 PM
Jerry Jeff just so happens to be in town Friday and Saturday night at the historic Gruene Hall. Only a short hour drive down I35 from Concordia. The champion should be crowned by 7. Plenty of time to head south, grab a bite to eat at the Gristmill and experience the 'countrier' side of things!
http://www.gruenehall.com/
http://www.gristmillrestaurant.com/
Only change I'd make is that I'd eat at Gruene River Grill:
http://www.gruenerivergrill.com/
Less touristy, more delicious. The shrimp wontons are one of the best appetizers I've ever had.
JSG
Quote from: Whatagame on May 14, 2013, 03:18:01 PM
Quote from: BamColt on May 14, 2013, 02:22:16 PM
Austin TX is basically like being in California. One of the best cities to visit in the U.S.
...except there's no beaches, mountains, deserts, etc.....!!
and the fields and the people have REAL GRASS not the artificial stuff 8-)
On Wednesday vs. Cal Lu, Trinity will have 6 seniors in the lineup and senior Lucero (28-3 lifetime) on the mound, all with prior NCAA starting experience. Those 7 starters have now been to 4 straight NCAA West Regionals with records of 2010 0-2, 2011 1-2, 2012 3-2---NCAA improvement each year as well as improvement each year in overall # season wins 2010-32, 2011-34, 2012-37, 2013-36 (currently as of 5/14). Trinity is the only returning team from the 2012 West Regional. These 7 seniors (along with 4 additional senior pitchers) are seasoned and very tourney experienced in double elimination formats (SCAC tourney champs 2010, 2011, and 2013 --2012 were beaten by Birmingham Southern (led by Bruce Maxwell 2nd round MLB draft). No substitute for experience in close games (just ask Centenary in this year's SCAC semifinal game). Prediction is that this Trinity group finds way to get 4 2013 Regional wins and finally get Coach Tim Scannell to Appleton. Should be a very competitive Regional.
QuoteLinfield has already run into two of its potential regional opponents this season: Concordia and Pomona-Pitzer. The Wildcats defeated the then 16th-ranked Tornados 8-1 at the Arizona Desert Classic back in February, and took three games (6-2, 9-3 and 15-4) from the then 22nd-ranked Sagehens during a mid-April trip to California.
http://www.linfield.edu/sports/release.php?id=4993
I don't think Concordia is in the West regional this year Mr. Linfield SID.
The forecast rain rolled through Austin earlier this morning - for the rest of the day there is only a 20-30% chance of scattered showers.
Ron, I have suggested that you to play the National Anthem on your horn at Trinity game today. ;)
Concordia had a decent squad this year. I think an 8-1 win over them in AZ is a quality win in my book. Better than a Idaho Weslayan Baptist Tech beat down that does nothing for you to start the year.
Cal Lu has the team that scored the most runs and is the best hitting team in the West Regional
Trinity-Texas has the team with the most playoff experience and with the best team ERA.
Linfield is a team that has made it to Appleton the most.
Texas-Tyler has the best fielding team in the tournament
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 10:36:47 AM
Ron, I have suggested that you to play the National Anthem on your horn at Trinity game today. ;)
Since I just got out of the hospital after dealing with antibiotic-resistant e coli running loose in the bloodstream, that's probably not in the cards, but your thoughtfulness is appreciated. :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 14, 2013, 03:43:52 PM
How about a little David Allen Coe and some Jerry Jeff Walker music.
David Allan Coe; You Never Even Called Me By My Name (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9coh7mBHwr4) The perfect country and western song!
Jerry Jeff Walker; Desperados waiting for a train (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4cFIjqdxzA)
The story behind Ray Wylie Hubbard; Redneck Mother (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E24C4NY0ga8)
Redneck Mother (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=PTVUsCTn2Ug&feature=endscreen)
Gary P Nunn; London Homesick Blues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm7rZteLnac)
Some Austin City Limits.
Best Idea yet!
Ron Boerger to play the National Anthem on his horn!
I think that would be great but how bout Austin's ghost of Stevie Ray Vaughan. I hope at least the boys at Concordia have some of his music cued up.
One trip this week will be to his statue for some pics!
Stevie Ray Vaughan was a "Grove Rat" from the Pleasant Grove section of Dallas! :)
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 15, 2013, 11:43:17 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 15, 2013, 10:36:47 AM
Ron, I have suggested that you to play the National Anthem on your horn at Trinity game today. ;)
Since I just got out of the hospital after dealing with antibiotic-resistant e coli running loose in the bloodstream, that's probably not in the cards, but your thoughtfulness is appreciated. :)
I have heard Pat Coleman sing the National Anthem. I thought this could be the D3sports.com cameo!
A BIT surprised, Brosius wheeled out Haddeland against TLU. I somewhat suspected he'd go with Brandon and try to save his big guns for later match-ups. Albeit, I'm a proponent of not saving your starters and Linfield has as much depth on the bump as anyone in the rest regional.
Yes you gotta win the first one. Can't overlook anyone. And Haddeland is the only starter that can bounce back on short rest (he will probably start their 4th game).
No way, you throw your best right out of the gates. 2-0 win is closer than alot anticipated.
Linfield wins game one, with a fantastic performance from Haddeland who gets the complete game shutout and strikes out 9. Spillane goes all 8 for TLU only giving up 2 runs on 7 hits. Both teams were errorless.
Both squads were able to completely rest their bullpens.
Not to bad for TLU who many said should have not been in this tournament. Good showing against the top overall seed.
Could be huge down the road: Linfield's Wylie left after the first inning (RBI single). Hopefully he can return and the injury isn't too serious. It is hard to replace 60 RBIs.
Good first game of the regional. Linfield's ace, Haddeland was dominant. TLU's Spillane pitched very well too against a strong Linfield offense. Spillane got himself into trouble in the first with a lead off walk, and in the second Linfield scored a run on a two out bloop into centerfield. TLU's centerfielder dove but came up short and the ball skipped into left center to give the hitter a double. The run would have scored either way.
This was a good game with good defense by both teams. Linfield took a couple of hits away from TLU in the middle innings, and Haddeland was really good. He showed great command and had good zip on the fastball with a nice breaking ball. Spillane really worked the ball to both sides of the plate and commanded what looked like two different breaking balls, although I can't be certain of that. Once he settled in he was tough and really kept Linfield off balance.
For all the talk of TLU shouldn't be here, I did not get the impression that they weren't a quality team. I think they played right alongside Linfield, but were just no match for Haddeland. It looked from the season numbers that TLU likely has the weakest offense at the regional and Linfield has the strongest pitching and that held true today. I am interested to see if TLU can bounce back tomorrow against what will be another strong team in Trinity or Cal Lutheran.
Linfield has a good looking team. I can see why they the favorite to win the region. Good game by both teams.
Quote from: Westside4 on May 15, 2013, 02:55:33 PM
Could be huge down the road: Linfield's Wylie left after the first inning (RBI single). Hopefully he can return and the injury isn't too serious. It is hard to replace 60 RBIs.
Looked like he left after attempting to steal second. Was anybody watching the video feed when that happened?
And impressive showing on the mound and on defense for TLU. Was the lack of offensive production more the product of a great pitcher or weak hitting team? Probably a combination of the two, but we'll have a better idea when they face someone else's number 2 in their win-or-go-home game tomorrow.
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 15, 2013, 03:03:08 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 15, 2013, 02:55:33 PM
Could be huge down the road: Linfield's Wylie left after the first inning (RBI single). Hopefully he can return and the injury isn't too serious. It is hard to replace 60 RBIs.
Looked like he left after attempting to steal second. Was anybody watching the video feed when that happened?
And impressive showing on the mound and on defense for TLU. Was the lack of offensive production more the product of a great pitcher or weak hitting team? Probably a combination of the two, but we'll have a better idea when they face someone else's number 2 in their win-or-go-home game tomorrow.
Yes I think combination of the two. Linfield's ace was really good today, and by his numbers I would assume really good almost every outing. TLU showed well, but just couldn't do much at the plate.
Quote from: BamColt on May 15, 2013, 02:54:21 PM
Not to bad for TLU who many said should have not been in this tournament. Good showing against the top overall seed.
This is what I expected from the game.
This is what I mean by the West being a competitive region. Two complete games. A 2-hit masterpiece and an respectable 2-run, 7-hit complete game against the #1 team in the country.
Quote from: Westside4 on May 15, 2013, 02:22:21 PM
Yes you gotta win the first one. Can't overlook anyone. And Haddeland is the only starter that can bounce back on short rest (he will probably start their 4th game).
Quote from: BamColt on May 15, 2013, 02:51:44 PM
No way, you throw your best right out of the gates. 2-0 win is closer than alot anticipated.
I agree. As I said, I'm not a proponent of that strategy; however, there's plenty of coaches that out-think themselves and plenty more who probably felt like TLU didn't belong in the regional.
Quality pitching being showcased today in Day 1 of the West regional. TLU had no answer for Haddeland who is now 12-1 with an ERA on the verge of being sub 1 (West Pitcher of the Year?). Spillane looked good as well limiting Linfield to just 2 runs by getting out of a few run-scoring opportunities. Two of the best lefties in the West are squaring off at the moment in the CLU/Trinity game as well (scoreless in the 4th). Tonight could be another pitcher's duel between Bruml and Cotton.
Great baseball on display so far in Austin!
After 6 innings of a pitchers duel, by my count Lucero has thrown 73 pitches and Petersen has thrown 77. Both are in a good spot to go very deep into the game and save their bullpens.
Trinity had a runner thrown out at the plate in the 6th to keep the game scoreless. They may finally be getting to Petersen.
Updates: Leadoff walk caught stealing for Trinity in the 7th, but a double turns into an unearned run. Looks like the leftfielder made an error and then the SS made an error as Woodruff dashed home. Would like to have seen the video, but I have to pretend to be working :)
Petersen now up to 92 pitches through 7IP.
-Scoreless bottom of the 7th inning. Cal Lu had a runner on third with one out but couldn't get him in.
-Petersen walks two in the top of the 8th. Looks like he's getting tired. Up to 106 pitches, gotta imagine they put Roth out there for the 9th.
-Lucero breezes through the bottom of the 8th, only needing 7 pitches.
-Petersen still on the hill for the top of the 9th. Gets pulled after three pitches (infield single, fielders choice, stolen base). Roth comes in with a runner on second and one out. Get's a pop out and then a 12 pitch strikeout.
Cal Lu is down to their last chance in a 1-0 game.
Petersen strikes out. DellaValle grounds out to first. Koons strikes out, thrown out at first on the passed ball.
Trinity wins 1-0
Awesome performance by Lucero. Seemed to get stronger as the game went on- retired the last 9 Cal Lu hitters he faced. Biggest stat- ZERO walks. Cal Lu came in as one of the top offenses in the country and Lucero just shut them down. That was their first time being held under two runs all year, and they had been averaging close to 9.5 a game.
Gutty performance by Petersen in the loss. The one run was unearned on a double with two errors.
It was an odd run no doubt. Woodruff hit a solid double down the left field line. The left fielder misplayed it as he was easing into second so he took an extra base. From there, I'm not really sure what happened out in left. Woodruff hesitated at third, took a peak into left and then came home without even a throw. Two errors on the play (LF and SS). Take 'em any way you can get 'em.
Two more great pitching performances from Peterson and Lucero so far in this one. Both have stranded runners on third with less than two outs.
TU - 1 CLU - 0
Lucero was just sick, I think there were only two hard hit balls, mostly flairs, he just cut up the CLU offense.
Petersen was also very good, TU had more scoring opportunities but just could not get a run across. You have to credit Petersen for this, whenever you thought he would break he got a key out.
Playoff baseball, pitching & defense. Some great plays however, play of the game, think 6 or 7th and a leadoff double down in the RF corner by CLU and crisp relay RF-2nd-3rd bang bang play at 3rd was probably the game changer play of the day. Took momentum completely out of their sails. CLU also threw out two TU runners at home, one on a force and another bang-bang play at home from RF. CLU lost game on errors on a botched relay, in LF, LFer missed cut off for Woodruff to go to third and then SS bobbled ball and Woodruff took off and SS did not see him go and/or was in the middle of throwing the ball in lazily and by then it was too late.
Saw some of the TLU/Linfield game. TLU most definitely belonged, Linfield is solid but I still think that by they time TU and Linfield likely meet TU will have more pitching left. I think TU's hitting is better than Linfield.
Still lots of baseball left to play before we get to this however.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 15, 2013, 07:47:15 PM
Saw some of the TLU/Linfield game. TLU most definitely belonged, Linfield is solid but I still think that by they time TU and Linfield likely meet TU will have more pitching left. I think TU's hitting is better than Linfield.
Still lots of baseball left to play before we get to this however.
When TLU faces CLU it will be facing a better offense (statistically, though they were shutdown in the first game) but a weaker pitcher. It'll be interesting to see if Aleman can pitch as well as Spillane did, and whether the offense can get going against Hebda/Peters (Hebda has been their #2 all year, but Peters has better numbers so not sure who gets the start in an elimination game).
As for TU I'm not sure they'll have more pitching left if/when they face Linfield. Both squads got complete games out of their starters and have fairly deep pitching staffs. Trinity will have to play the winner of the PP-UTT game while Linfield gets the loser, and I think Thomassan gets a slight edge over Alig in being able to eat up more innings in that scenario. Depends a lot on who wins and how, but both teams are on equal footing right now.
UT-Tyler beats Pomona Pitzer 4-3 in 11 innings
-Cotton gives up his first homerun of the year to PP pitcher Jake Bruml in the 1st, 2-0 Pomona-Pitzer.
-Sam Fox scores on an RBI single by Mike Moyer in the 4th, 3-0 Pomona-Pitzer
-House singles home Tijerina in the 4th for UTT, 3-1 Pomona Pitzer
-Kosta 2 RBI single to right field for UTT in the 7th, 3-3 tie
-Passed ball with the bases loaded scores Cunniff, 4-3 UTT. Game over
Have to give a ton of credit to the UTT bullpen. They go 5 innings with 2 hits, 1 walk and no runs. The Sagehen bullpen was a little shakier- Stevens gave up four hits to his first five hitters before settling down and Gano walks three of his last four.
Updates
Eleventh Inning:
-Shepard still in for UTT. Gives up a single to Fox, but a double play gets him out of the inning with nobody left on.
-Gano stays in.
Strikeout, BB, BB, Dropped infield fly but nobody advances, BB, passed ball with the bases loaded for the winning run.
__________________
Justin Sheets came in for Chance Cotton to start the 7th inning. Good outing overall for Cotton, but that 38 pitch first inning hurt him and ended his night earlier than UTT would have liked. Sheets throws two good innings before being relieved by Matt Shepard in the ninth. Shepard was great too, only allowing one hit in three innings.
Jake Bruml replaced by Guy Stevens after throwing 6.1 IP. Great outing, got out of a lot of jams and hopefully will be able to go again on short rest. Particularly after that 7th inning, you have to wonder why Bruml got pulled with a pitch count under 100. But hindsight is 20/20. Stevens gets two scoreless innings after that rough seventh before Gano comes in for the 10th. Gano pitched well until he had trouble finding the zone in the 11th. Three walks loaded the bases, and he had already thrown a couple in the dirt before the passed ball scored the winning run. Gano actually goes 1.2 without giving up a hit or an earned run, but gets the loss.
Pomona Pitzer didn't have too much difficulty with Cotton, though he settled down after a rocky first inning.
Bruml was very good, particularly working with runners on base. Patriots had the lead off man on in 6 of his 7 innings but he only gives up two runs.
The Hens defense was a little shaky overall, though they didn't technically commit an error. Couple big double plays in big spots, but the passed ball kills them. They also ran a lot more than they usually do, 6 for 6 on stolen base attempts (one was tagged out after over sliding).
Both teams were live-tweeting.
Pomona Pitzer's page (@Sagehens) can be found here: https://twitter.com/Sagehens (https://twitter.com/Sagehens)
UT-Tyler's page (@uttylerpatriots) can be found here: https://twitter.com/uttylerpatriots (https://twitter.com/uttylerpatriots)
Whew! Offensive explosion in game 3 tonight ;D! A total of 6 runs scored after 3 total in the first 2 games.
UTT wins on a passed ball with the bases loaded and two out in the 11th!
Based on day one all of these teams are evenly matched. Very good low scoring baseball. UTT won the hard way but had to use their closer for 3 innings. I think that is his longest outing this year. Thus he may not be available tomorrow. That would hurt. Anytime there are extra inning games it hurts both teams due to burning through pitchers.
Quote from: TexasBB on May 15, 2013, 11:20:58 PM
Based on day one all of these teams are evenly matched. Very good low scoring baseball. UTT won the hard way but had to use their closer for 3 innings. I think that is his longest outing this year. Thus he may not be available tomorrow. That would hurt. Anytime there are extra inning games it hurts both teams due to burning through pitchers.
Is Derek Miller not their closer? But obviously having to throw 5 innings from your pen hurts regardless. PP had to give 1.2 innings to Gano, who had settled into the starting rotation at the end of the year. I would have thought they would try and save him until game three, but I guess you have to do whatever you can to win and even get to a game three.
Majev looks to be the starter for PP tomorrow against *gulp* Linfield. He went 4.2 in two games of relief against them in April, giving up 4 hits and 2 unearned runs with 5 k's and 0 bb's.
GREAT day of baseball in the West regional. The 6 teams combine for 10 runs. Trinity vs Tyler should be an interesting matchup. But then so should Cal Lu and Tex Lu. Hopefully Pomona Pitzer can surprise some folks and grab a win from Linfield.
My bad Miller is the closer Shepard has been the set up man.
Trinity vs UT-T: question is do the Tigers bring this year's ace (Zach Speer, 1.47, 8-0, OBO .211) or do they hope the Patriots will just be a bit tired and go with Andrew Alig (4-1, 2.81, .208) ? Winner of this game almost certainly draws Linfield next.
Interesting that CLU did NOT start their #1 pitcher today (after today Peterson is 3.04, 7-2, .274). Scott Peters is undefeated; 2.52, 8-0, .232 and you'd imagine gets the start tomorrow. CLU's stud on the mound is their closer Aaron Roth; in 27 appearances has thrown 64.1 innings, gone 6-1, and has a microscopic ERA of 0.98.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on May 15, 2013, 11:39:30 PM
Trinity vs UT-T: question is do the Tigers bring this year's ace (Zach Speer, 1.47, 8-0, OBO .211) or do they hope the Patriots will just be a bit tired and go with Andrew Alig (4-1, 2.81, .208) ? Winner of this game almost certainly draws Linfield next.
Interesting that CLU did NOT start their #1 pitcher today (after today Peterson is 3.04, 7-2, .274). Scott Peters is undefeated; 2.52, 8-0, .232 and you'd imagine gets the start tomorrow. CLU's stud on the mound is their closer Aaron Roth; in 27 appearances has thrown 64.1 innings, gone 6-1, and has a microscopic ERA of 0.98.
I think both Trinity and Cal Lu did start their aces. The ace isn't always the person with the lowest ERA.
I have no idea why Cal Lu didn't bring Roth in earlier. As soon as Petersen survived the 6th it would have been Roth time for me. Give me the guy that send mofos back to the dugout. Balls in play are chances for bad things to happen, and one did. Cal Lu played with fire and got away with it in the 3rd and 6th. Not sure why you have a guy like Roth if not for that situation. He's been your 2-3 inning reliever all year.
Lucero is Trinitys ace.
Haddeland's CG Shutout has brought his season line to: 12-1 1.06 ERA 102 IP 82 Ks (And 7 complete games).
I guess the one silver lining to Linfield losing Wylie is that their defense will improve a little bit... But it is hard to see them as the favorite without their #3 hole hitter. Their pitching staff is going to need to carry them through the weekend.
Foreheaven and Bamcolt are right Sr Lucero is the ace and proved it today. Shut down the most powerful offense in DIII ball. He has pitched in conference and Regional tournaments with the game on the line and was in complete control today.
CLU did not lose on pitching, errors did them in. Petersen walked a line and got away with it, but did his job, congrats to him. I thought they used Roth as necessary, if they are going to move on they will need him a few more times this weekend and used him like you would a shut down closer an still be available.
I would also say that some stellar defensive plays kept some runs off the board for both CLU and Trinity. This was a very good championship caliber game.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 16, 2013, 12:45:17 AM
Petersen walked a line and got away with it, but did his job, congrats to him. I thought they used Roth as necessary, if they are going to move on they will need him a few more times this weekend and used him like you would a shut down closer an still be available.
I agree, don't think they should have brought in Roth any earlier. Yes, there were a few situations where Petersen skated but the guy went out and gave up one unearned run in 8.1 innings. And that one run came with nobody on base, so there wasn't a threat brewing either.
The biggest problem wasn't pitching, or even that defensive lap, it was the sticks. Lucero is a great arm who pitched a great game and maybe CLU has trouble against lefties (Petersen and Boggan are both lefties and both went 0-fer), but it's still unacceptable for the #1 offense in the country not to score a run in the biggest game of the year. They had to be ecstatic with Petersen's performance on the hill and they totally wasted it.
Looking forward, Peters does have the best numbers for Cal Lu but Hebda has been their #2 all year. I don't think they'll change it up now, but I personally think they should. It's an elimination game and you need your best guy out there. Then again, the coach knows more about those pitchers than I do and stats don't necessarily tell the whole story.
You use a closer when you're already behind rather than when you're tied after teetering on the edge of falling behind?
It's easy to say now that they should have made the change, but I was thinking so at the time and honestly I really don't care if anyone on this board believes me or not. If teams misuse their talent, it just gives teams I support a better chance to win. So, whatever. Close the barn door after the livestock's already escaped if you want to. Leave your best gun in the holster until the battle's already lost...pick your analogy.
Does anyone have a #3 that can beat Linfield? Seems that's basically what the regional comes down to.
Alig (TU) has better stats in every category compared to linfield's #3 Brandon. Maybe we will see that matchup Friday at noon. Neither team should look past tomorrow though.
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 16, 2013, 01:22:31 AM
Alig (TU) has better stats in every category compared to linfield's #3 Brandon. Maybe we will see that matchup Friday at noon. Neither team should look past tomorrow though.
I don't think Linfield will have much trouble. Linfield's also played the better schedule by far. I don't think that numbers comparison means much given that context.
If the numbers hold, Trinity should roar past Tyler between a dominant performance from their pitcher.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 16, 2013, 01:15:05 AM
You use a closer when you're already behind rather than when you're tied after teetering on the edge of falling behind?
It's easy to say now that they should have made the change, but I was thinking so at the time and honestly I really don't care if anyone on this board believes me or not. If teams misuse their talent, it just gives teams I support a better chance to win. So, whatever. Close the barn door after the livestock's already escaped if you want to. Leave your best gun in the holster until the battle's already lost...pick your analogy.
Does anyone have a #3 that can beat Linfield? Seems that's basically what the regional comes down to.
It was a tough choice that ended up going the wrong way for Cal Lu. I guess I'm thinking more in line with a traditional strategy of saving your closer for the 8th/9th. I actually did think they should have brought Roth in the 8th as Petersen looked like he was starting to tire. And Roth is the more dominant guy. But as it turned out, he would have had to eat at least four innings if you bring him in to start the 7th since CLU was still scoreless after 9.
Maybe you're right though. I am of the mind that you do whatever you can to win immediately, and adapt to the weekend games when you get there. Roth probably gives them the best shot to win, but I also didn't think Petersen looked really vulnerable until the 8th and at that point the damage had been done.
As a coach it would be easy to get greedy thinking about the weekend if you've got a starter cruising, and thus try to ride him out. And in the back of your mind, you've got to think your offense is due to come around.
Great pitching beats great hitting.
Errors and little ball making the difference.
I now expect the final being between Linfield and TU with Linfield making another trip to Appleton.
In the end P-P was done by their pitching in the 11th. Walked the bases loaded and then allowed the winning run to score on a passed ball. The fact thay P-P had to use one of their starters (who ended up being responsible for all of the walks) is an indication of a shallow bullpen.
The game today between TT and Trinity will be interesting. The Patriots will start Mara who they need to get 5 solid innings out of. He only threw 3 in the ASC championships and had an apparent late season injury in the series against Louisiana College where he was pulled after only 1 inning. In releif the Patriots will likely use Weber, Sheets and Miller. (Weber for 2 no more than 3 inninings with Sheets 1 and Miller 1.) If Mara is healthy he can be very effective with a 2.17 ERA and a 7-2 record this year. If he is not healthy and they have to pull him early, then the Patriots will be in trouble. I expect another close low scoring afair.
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 16, 2013, 02:44:53 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 16, 2013, 01:15:05 AM
You use a closer when you're already behind rather than when you're tied after teetering on the edge of falling behind?
It's easy to say now that they should have made the change, but I was thinking so at the time and honestly I really don't care if anyone on this board believes me or not. If teams misuse their talent, it just gives teams I support a better chance to win. So, whatever. Close the barn door after the livestock's already escaped if you want to. Leave your best gun in the holster until the battle's already lost...pick your analogy.
Does anyone have a #3 that can beat Linfield? Seems that's basically what the regional comes down to.
It was a tough choice that ended up going the wrong way for Cal Lu. I guess I'm thinking more in line with a traditional strategy of saving your closer for the 8th/9th. I actually did think they should have brought Roth in the 8th as Petersen looked like he was starting to tire. And Roth is the more dominant guy. But as it turned out, he would have had to eat at least four innings if you bring him in to start the 7th since CLU was still scoreless after 9.
Maybe you're right though. I am of the mind that you do whatever you can to win immediately, and adapt to the weekend games when you get there. Roth probably gives them the best shot to win, but I also didn't think Petersen looked really vulnerable until the 8th and at that point the damage had been done.
As a coach it would be easy to get greedy thinking about the weekend if you've got a starter cruising, and thus try to ride him out. And in the back of your mind, you've got to think your offense is due to come around.
I don't disagree with any of this. I just felt like they were lucky not to be behind, and Roth could strike people out where Petersen wasn't. Like I say, in a close, low-scoring ballgame, strikeouts are huge IMO, especially at this level where often the defense isn't what you'd like (partly due to the few number of games you can play :P)
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 16, 2013, 01:33:59 AM
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 16, 2013, 01:22:31 AM
Alig (TU) has better stats in every category compared to linfield's #3 Brandon. Maybe we will see that matchup Friday at noon. Neither team should look past tomorrow though.
I don't think Linfield will have much trouble. Linfield's also played the better schedule by far. I don't think that numbers comparison means much given that context.
If the numbers hold, Trinity should roar past Tyler between a dominant performance from their pitcher.
First and foremost, Trinity needs to worry about getting by UT-Tyler tonight. They're a good ball club.
For whoever they face tomorrow, I wouldn't discount Alig's numbers too heavily.
Here are his last three starts:
Trinity University IP H R ER BB SO
Andrew Alig ............... 6.1 4 2 1 3 5 neutral site Centenary (25-14) (.300 team BA)
Andrew Alig W,4-1.... 8.1 3 2 1 2 6 @ TLU - 2013 West Regional team. (.277 team BA)
Andrew Alig W,3-1..... 7.1 5 1 1 1 6 @ Concordia (22-22. Regional qualifier in 2012. Pre-season ASC West pick to win conference. .251 team BA is low)
Linfield (.326 team BA) is a better hitting team than all of the above. That being said, those are three quality west region programs. He's shown improvement throughout the year and really solidified the #3 spot in the rotation. In an ideal world, Speer can go deep into tonight's game and Trinity can head into tomorrow 2-0 with Alig hopefully giving you 6 and Bentz taking it home.
Looking forward to another great day of baseball out west.
1 game lost by errors
Another one lost by pass ball
SCIAC could be coming home today
The small things make a difference in these games. Anyone could beat anyone at anytime in the regionals. Not much seperates these teams.
So the assumption is that Trinity will prevail over UTT tonight. If Mara is on, I think Tyler wins. Keep in mind that UTT beat Centanarry 2 out of 3 at Centenarry, a team Trinity had struggled with but beat twice in the championships. They both beat Texas Lutheran but UTT beat them most recently when Texas Lutheran was playing better baseball. I think these teams are very evenly matched and it can go either way. It will come down to the pitching and defense and both teams are strong in those areas.
Unless TLU can figure out how to stop walking people and start swinging the bat, their season will be over in a couple of hours.
Hebda gets TLU leadoff hitter Gennusa to ground out w/ the bases juiced in the bottom of the 5th. 4-1 CLU going into the 6th.
TLU threatening again with 2 outs and 2 on in the bottom of the 7th, but here comes Roth. He promptly induces an F8. CLU still leads by 3 headed to the 8th.
Harwell has been excellent so far, but Kistler into pitch in the 8th. Saving Harwell so he can come back IF the Bulldogs can come back or giving Kistler a few innings to close out his excellent career as a Bulldog?
TLU adds 2 ER against Roth in the bottom of the 8th to close the gap to 4-3, but now CLU threatening to give Kistler his first ERs of the year in the top half of the 9th.
CLU threatening with runners on 2nd and 3rd w/ 1 out. Intentionally BB clean-up hitter and Kistler induces the double play.
Roth able to go 3 up 3 down in the bottom half of the 9th.
CLU hangs on w/ a 4-3 win.
JSG
Quote from: TexasBB on May 16, 2013, 01:34:12 PM
I think these teams are very evenly matched and it can go either way. It will come down to the pitching and defense and both teams are strong in those areas.
Completely agree. Marah vs Speer could turn out to be another pitchers duel, much like both team's first game. Marah has a .206 BA against and Speer is .211. Both strike out a a batter per inning.
I still can't keep myself from looking ahead. Who do you think UT-Tyler uses to start game three?
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 16, 2013, 02:00:35 PM
Quote from: TexasBB on May 16, 2013, 01:34:12 PM
I think these teams are very evenly matched and it can go either way. It will come down to the pitching and defense and both teams are strong in those areas.
Completely agree. Marah vs Speer could turn out to be another pitchers duel, much like both team's first game. Marah has a .206 BA against and Speer is .211. Both strike out a a batter per inning.
I still can't keep myself from looking ahead. Who do you think UT-Tyler uses to start game three?
Barkley with a relatively short leash or Tye Weber.
TLU has made some noise against Roth. CLU up 4-3 into the 9th.
Cal Lu holds on as Roth gets a 1-2-3 9th inning to win 4-3. Only got to watch the last inning but as dp643 mentioned, looks like TLU actually got to Roth a bit in the 8th. That's now 3 innings for him over two days. Based on what he did in the SCIAC tournament and pool play, I don't think that's much of a concern. But they probably won't want to bring him in too early in their next game if they can avoid it.
Hebda had great numbers- 6.2 IP, 5h, 1R. Looks like maintaining their season-long rotation paid off, and that means Peters will start their next game against either Pomona Pitzer (if they upset Linfield) or the loser of UTT-Trinity.
Also I just realized that video of the games only occurs if the particular team brought their crew. So any games between non-Texas teams will only have live stats, including the PP-Linfield game in an hour and any potential Linfield-CLU matchup. Probably better for my work productivity but still a little disappointing :(
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 16, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
Unless TLU can figure out how to stop walking people and start swinging the bat, their season will be over in a couple of hours.
Hebda gets TLU leadoff hitter Gennusa to ground out w/ the bases juiced in the bottom of the 5th. 4-1 CLU going into the 6th.
TLU threatening again with 2 outs and 2 on in the bottom of the 7th, but here comes Roth. He promptly induces an F8. CLU still leads by 3 headed to the 8th.
Harwell has been excellent so far, but Kistler into pitch in the 8th. Saving Harwell so he can come back IF the Bulldogs can come back or giving Kistler a few innings to close out his excellent career as a Bulldog?
TLU adds 2 ER against Roth in the bottom of the 8th to close the gap to 4-3, but now CLU threatening to give Kistler his first ERs of the year in the top half of the 9th.
CLU threatening with runners on 2nd and 3rd w/ 1 out. Intentionally BB clean-up hitter and Kistler induces the double play.
Roth able to go 3 up 3 down in the bottom half of the 9th.
CLU hangs on w/ a 4-3 win.
JSG
Who knows how another team shipped into the region would've fared, but playing the #1 and the #5/8 (depending on the poll) team in the country and dropping two hard fought games 2-0 and 4-3 was a respectable showing for TLU in my opinion. They don't swing it very well (albeit nobody has against Haddleland this year), but they play good D and they have pretty decent depth on the bump.
JSG
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 16, 2013, 03:39:08 PM
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 16, 2013, 01:48:44 PM
Unless TLU can figure out how to stop walking people and start swinging the bat, their season will be over in a couple of hours.
Hebda gets TLU leadoff hitter Gennusa to ground out w/ the bases juiced in the bottom of the 5th. 4-1 CLU going into the 6th.
TLU threatening again with 2 outs and 2 on in the bottom of the 7th, but here comes Roth. He promptly induces an F8. CLU still leads by 3 headed to the 8th.
Harwell has been excellent so far, but Kistler into pitch in the 8th. Saving Harwell so he can come back IF the Bulldogs can come back or giving Kistler a few innings to close out his excellent career as a Bulldog?
TLU adds 2 ER against Roth in the bottom of the 8th to close the gap to 4-3, but now CLU threatening to give Kistler his first ERs of the year in the top half of the 9th.
CLU threatening with runners on 2nd and 3rd w/ 1 out. Intentionally BB clean-up hitter and Kistler induces the double play.
Roth able to go 3 up 3 down in the bottom half of the 9th.
CLU hangs on w/ a 4-3 win.
JSG
Who knows how another team shipped into the region would've fared, but playing the #1 and the #5/8 (depending on the poll) team in the country and dropping two hard fought games 2-0 and 4-3 was a respectable showing for TLU in my opinion. They don't swing it very well (albeit nobody has against Haddleland this year), but they play good D and they have pretty decent depth on the bump.
JSG
Allowing just 6 runs against those two offenses is very commendable. And scoring two runs in crunch time off of someone who has been as dominant as Roth is pretty impressive too. There's no way of knowing how other bubble teams would have fared, but TLU certainly didn't embarrass the folks who decided they deserved to be a part of the regional.
I'm sure they are disappointed with losing twice- any team with 33 wins is going to enter the tournament with a goal of winning it- but they should be proud of their performances against two very good baseball teams.
2 and Q for TLU. They played 2 very good games and should be proud of their season.
Who is next on the ride home today.
Quote from: Gray Fox on May 14, 2013, 03:09:59 PM
Pomona is the bluest of the teams. That should help them.
A couple of the other team wear purple. :P
Only a very small patch of RED around the Chapman campus and parts of OC...Rest of the state is VERY BLUE.
I would put my money on Trinity to take this thing.
Concerned about Thomassen. I was worried about how he would bounce back after getting bombed vs. Lewis Clark State in his last outing. He's already given up one bomb in the 2nd inning vs. Pitzer. Hope he can figure things out.
Go Cats
Quote from: CAT BAT 22 on May 16, 2013, 05:04:54 PM
Concerned about Thomassen. I was worried about how he would bounce back after getting bombed vs. Lewis Clark State in his last outing. He's already given up one bomb in the 2nd inning vs. Pitzer. Hope he can figure things out.
Go Cats
I thought about the same thing too...P-P has been getting to him a little...
Nice to see the offense show some life today for Linfield. Especially considering top RBI guy and 3 hitter, Wylie, went down yesterday. Judging by the games I've seen in person this year thomassen has looked shaky multiple times. He has a bad habit of living up in the zone but he's able to make the pitches when he needs to (seen twice today already by getting 2 timely double plays).
Keep it up linfield, doing the NW proud!
After its solid 1st inning start, Linfield did what good teams do: take advantage of about everything P-P gave them. The 4 run 3rd included 4 walks and an error which lead to all 4 runs and a deep deficit for P-P.
Trinity hitters making adjustments going deeper in counts with better AB's each time through the order. Muscarello has a wonderful 8 pitch AB in the 5th in front of Hall who delivers a 2 run double.
Watched some of the Pomona game last night...tough call on the balk that kept that 7th inning going. Video feed wasn't good enough to tell if it was actually a balk, and there was no replay. Lots of chances for both teams that came up empty, though.
Didn't see the game today, but figured that Linfield would be tough. Would have been nice to see what the Hens could have done with a healthy pitching staff. Seems like pitching, and especially pitching depth, has been the problem for them in NCAA play - even with the Cortez led teams in the early 2000s, as well as the Hedman/Kang/Mandelblatt/Colvin teams a few years back.
Will be interesting to see how next year shapes up. If everyone is healthy, a lot of pitching returns, along with the whole infield...
Trinity scratches out an insurance run in the bottom of the eighth to go up 4-1, which probably gave Coach Scannell the freedom to keep Speer in during the ninth when UT-T made their run. A single and a triple closed it to 4-2, but Zach got a one-out K with the runner on third and a pop to second to seal Trinity's second CG pitching performance.
The reward for winning is a quick turnaround to play Linfield at noon tomorrow with the winner obviously in the driver's seat.
Quote from: pomonaalum on May 16, 2013, 09:55:04 PM
Watched some of the Pomona game last night...tough call on the balk that kept that 7th inning going. Video feed wasn't good enough to tell if it was actually a balk, and there was no replay. Lots of chances for both teams that came up empty, though.
Didn't see the game today, but figured that Linfield would be tough. Would have been nice to see what the Hens could have done with a healthy pitching staff. Seems like pitching, and especially pitching depth, has been the problem for them in NCAA play - even with the Cortez led teams in the early 2000s, as well as the Hedman/Kang/Mandelblatt/Colvin teams a few years back.
Will be interesting to see how next year shapes up. If everyone is healthy, a lot of pitching returns, along with the whole infield...
Was talking to another alum about this today, but i actually think next year will be the first time in awhile where the question mark for the Hens is offense. Losing Moyer, Munzer, and Gentili is huge (lead off, two and four hitters) particular when the offense hasnt quite been what it was in the past..
But their staff should be pretty good if Yen and Rosenbaum come back healthy. As with any good program, it'll be up to the guys who come in or break into the lineup to step up in place of the studs that moved on. Bruml is a great guy to build around, not to mention an entire infield of underclassmen.
Overall I think the Hens should come home heads high. They had a great fight last night and then lost to the #1 team in the country today. They were fortunate to get the bid- we've never received a pool c before- and so all this was bonus baseball. now the younger guys have the experience of a regional under their belt, not to mention the sting of defeat which should be motivating. The seniors got to play a few more games before hanging them up (or playing abroad).
From here I guess I gotta say go SCIAC, go Cal Lu
The Patriots went with Barkley, their #3 starter tonight. That must mean that Marah was not ready to go. Barkly did a good job but Speer was too much tonight and held the Patriot offense in check. With their backs against the wall the question is who will start tomorrow agains Cal Luth. If Marah can't go then it will be pitching by committee. UTT has a strong bullpen but they need a starter that can go into the middle innings and keep that powerful offense in check.
I was wondering why UT-T didn't pitch Marah last night - if he is unavailable for CLU the Patriots face a tough task today.
With Haddeland and Thomassen getting the starts in Linfield's first two games, today's pitching lineup will likely be Linfield's Zach Brandon (Jr., 7-2, 3.08, 12 GS/79.0 IP, .270 OBO) against Trinity's Andrew Alig (FY, 4-1, 2.81, 6 GS/10 App/51.1 IP, .208 OBO). Both teams have all their middle relief and closers available with starters having pitched all but 2 innings in the four games combined.
Alig has pitched well in his last two outings, giving up one earned run and three hits in 8 1/3 to earn a win against Texas Lutheran, and one earned run and four hits in 6 1/3 in a no decision against Centenary in the SCAC championships. Linfield is going to be the biggest challenge of his young career if he gets the start today.
Looks to be some nerves to start out the Linfield v. Trinity game. 3 errors in 2 innings for Linfield, and the Trinity started only got one out total.
Quote from: Westside4 on May 17, 2013, 01:50:59 PM
Looks to be some nerves to start out the Linfield v. Trinity game. 3 errors in 2 innings for Linfield, and the Trinity started only got one out total.
Brosius clearly understands the importance of winning game #3 and not having to beat the undefeated team 2x going to their closer, Huckins in the 6th.
Trinity's scary in the sense that, "Oh, Alig didn't haven't it today. That's cool, we'll just roll out this freshman that's only tossed 16.2 innings this year and he'll give us a few scoreless innings."
JSG
Looks like the 'Cats are a little tight. Some uncharacteristic errors being made... turn it around boys.
Haddeland comes in and records the final out in the 8th. Way to sack up .. coming back on 1 day rest. Huge.
Let's get some insurance runs boys!
Go 'Cats
Quote from: Just_Some_Guy on May 17, 2013, 02:58:31 PM
Quote from: Westside4 on May 17, 2013, 01:50:59 PM
Looks to be some nerves to start out the Linfield v. Trinity game. 3 errors in 2 innings for Linfield, and the Trinity started only got one out total.
Brosius clearly understands the importance of winning game #3 and not having to beat the undefeated team 2x going to their closer, Huckins in the 6th.
Trinity's scary in the sense that, "Oh, Alig didn't haven't it today. That's cool, we'll just roll out this freshman that's only tossed 16.2 innings this year and he'll give us a few scoreless innings."
JSG
What an effort by Walker. 7 2/3's with 4 hits and 0 runs put up against Linfield. 3 outs left for the Trinity bats to reward Walker for a sterling effort and pick up Alig.
Quote from: CAT BAT 22 on May 17, 2013, 03:16:59 PM
Looks like the 'Cats are a little tight. Some uncharacteristic errors being made... turn it around boys.
Haddeland comes in and records the final out in the 8th. Way to sack up .. coming back on 1 day rest. Huge.
Let's get some insurance runs boys!
Go 'Cats
Not that it matters, but technically it's 2 days rest. You count the day you pitch. Might be better if people called it "nights rest."
I'm guessing Haddeland didn't throw very many pitches against TLU, making this more possible and realistic an option.
Good call, I was just repeating what the announcer mentioned and didn't even think about it.
Another nail biting 1 run game in the West Region. Great win for Linfield. Opposite side of the emotional spectrum for the Tigers. They now must win 3 straight, but do them one at a time. In 27 innings, TU pitching has been brilliant for all but 2/3's of an inning. It is hard to expect the work on the mound can continue at that level so the bats have to get more runs on the board. No doubt they have the bats to get there.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 17, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: CAT BAT 22 on May 17, 2013, 03:16:59 PM
Looks like the 'Cats are a little tight. Some uncharacteristic errors being made... turn it around boys.
Haddeland comes in and records the final out in the 8th. Way to sack up .. coming back on 1 day rest. Huge.
Let's get some insurance runs boys!
Go 'Cats
Not that it matters, but technically it's 2 days rest. You count the day you pitch. Might be better if people called it "nights rest."
I'm guessing Haddeland didn't throw very many pitches against TLU, making this more possible and realistic an option.
He threw 112 pitches against TLU on Wed, per box score.
What a great win by the 'Cats. Tremendous effort by Walker to come in and shutdown the 'Cats but it doesn't matter if it's by 1 or 10...win and advance.
Great move by the 'Cats to trot out their ace to close things out. No way we could risk moving to the losers bracket knowing we'd have to(assuming we won the next game) beat Trinity twice and in so doing... face Lucero with guys from the middle of our own rotation.
Go 'Cats
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 17, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: CAT BAT 22 on May 17, 2013, 03:16:59 PM
Looks like the 'Cats are a little tight. Some uncharacteristic errors being made... turn it around boys.
Haddeland comes in and records the final out in the 8th. Way to sack up .. coming back on 1 day rest. Huge.
Let's get some insurance runs boys!
Go 'Cats
Not that it matters, but technically it's 2 days rest. You count the day you pitch. Might be better if people called it "nights rest."
I'm guessing Haddeland didn't throw very many pitches against TLU, making this more possible and realistic an option.
Then why in "the Bigs" when you have a 5 man rotation, its said you're pitching on a normal 4 days rest? Am I missing something?
Quote from: Whatagame on May 17, 2013, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 17, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: CAT BAT 22 on May 17, 2013, 03:16:59 PM
Looks like the 'Cats are a little tight. Some uncharacteristic errors being made... turn it around boys.
Haddeland comes in and records the final out in the 8th. Way to sack up .. coming back on 1 day rest. Huge.
Let's get some insurance runs boys!
Go 'Cats
Not that it matters, but technically it's 2 days rest. You count the day you pitch. Might be better if people called it "nights rest."
I'm guessing Haddeland didn't throw very many pitches against TLU, making this more possible and realistic an option.
He threw 112 pitches against TLU on Wed, per box score.
More than I figured for such a performance, but not bad for 9IP. Not real high stress innings either.
In another regional a pitcher that allowed 12 runs was brought back in an extra inning game today.
Quote from: Whatagame on May 17, 2013, 03:39:08 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 17, 2013, 03:23:50 PM
Quote from: CAT BAT 22 on May 17, 2013, 03:16:59 PM
Looks like the 'Cats are a little tight. Some uncharacteristic errors being made... turn it around boys.
Haddeland comes in and records the final out in the 8th. Way to sack up .. coming back on 1 day rest. Huge.
Let's get some insurance runs boys!
Go 'Cats
Not that it matters, but technically it's 2 days rest. You count the day you pitch. Might be better if people called it "nights rest."
I'm guessing Haddeland didn't throw very many pitches against TLU, making this more possible and realistic an option.
Then why in "the Bigs" when you have a 5 man rotation, its said you're pitching on a normal 4 days rest? Am I missing something?
You aren't. MLB pitchers typically have 4 days of rest between starts and the Linfield pitcher came back on one days rest. Wording aside, I was surprised to hear his name being announced coming out of the pen. I didn't expect him to be ready to throw a couple innings until tomorrow at the earliest. Gutsy performance by him today. Hats off to Linfield. Can't say enough about Walker for Trinity throwing 7 2/3 scoreless baseball.
Trinity now has to win 3 in a row. Hopefully they can bounce back tonight and get the first one. With Linfield's ace throwing today, I'm curious who they plan on starting tomorrow.
Linfield is close to making another trip to Appleton. Not sure how you beat a team like this twice in one day. Brosius is got to be considered the Best In West Coach for their consistent play every year. I watch them play too many times over the years and watch too many games lost to them due to his coaching. He may not always have the most talent but he gets the most out of his players and the play the game the right way and they play all facets of the game at a very high level. Pitchers pitch smart, excellent fielding team, can play little ball, and clutch hitting.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 17, 2013, 04:00:21 PM
Brosius is got to be considered the Best In West Coach for their consistent play every year.
I'm sure others have noticed his work at Linfield and USA baseball. I'm just going to enjoy him for however long he decides to stay. Great man, great coach.
Wonder who TU trots out on the mound for the 7pm game. Good thing is they have only used 4 arms in 3 games. Alig should be available tonight. If they can get to tomorrow, I wonder if Lucero will be available, after what Walker did today.
Linfield almost gave the game away very unusual for them, I think, for that many errors and TU ran themselves out of it. If CLU wins then I imagine TU will run out one of the Lefty's, if not then they could bring in one of the power arms. They still have plenty of options. I don't think we will see Alig until tomorrow. Umpiring has generally been good until today, plate ump was so inconsistent, field up blew two calls. (both ways) Plate ump had no business being in a championship college game.
http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/uttyler.portal#
Video link to the UTT CLU game
Quote from: tigerfan_2001 on May 17, 2013, 04:49:41 PM
Wonder who TU trots out on the mound for the 7pm game. Good thing is they have only used 4 arms in 3 games. Alig should be available tonight. If they can get to tomorrow, I wonder if Lucero will be available, after what Walker did today.
tigerfan, The TU coaching staff never ceases to amaze me with unexpected choices. In the 2004 final game they matched up a freshman with 8 total innings against Scott Hyde of George Fox, the unanimous best pitcher in D3 that year. Just like Walker did today, that freshman came up big and kept TU in a situation with chances to win. Knowing the staff is probably deeper in quality arms this year than any previous team, I expect the coaches will come up with solid choices and challenge another young man to "step up."
Thanks Ralph, much better than live stats!
Congrats to Linfield today. Great job shutting the door on Trinity late in the game and surviving 4 errors on the day. Gotta give a tip of the cap to Walker for TU. He gave them 7+ innings of shutout ball and gave em a chance to win. Also gotta give credit to Linfield's pitchers as well. Brandon battled into 6th and was able to get some big outs when he needed (sounds like he made a great play on a squeeze bunt as well). Huckins did great as well getting the Cats out of the 6th with the lead still intact. And finally you can't say enough about Haddeland and what he's been for Linfield this year. Coming back on a day's rest and closing the door on TU is impressive. I will not be surprised if we see him in the pen tomorrow for the Cats or if he even starts the 2nd game.
Linfield will probably start either Erraut or Speyer in Game 1 tomorrow. Erraut has a start against La Verne under his belt and I believe he either 1 or 2 hit them. Speyer has been one of Linfield's main relievers all year and has yet to pitch in Austin.
Good luck tomorrow Linfield, keep doing the NW proud!
Kudos to Trinity for hanging in after the disastrous start but Linfield did what it had to do and are virtually assured of winning the regional now. Surprised to see the G1 starter finishing up but you can't doubt the results.
UT-Tyler leads CLU 3-2 with the Patriots at bat in the bottom of the 7th. Aaron Roth has just come in for the Kingsmen.
Trinity's chances of getting a rematch with Linfield tomorrow is looking promising. Cal Lu is using Roth for the 3rd straight day and their bullpen depth looks to be pretty thin. Tyler's Holley did a great job keeping Cal Lu's bats at bay in those middle innings. If Tyler wins it will interesting to see who they throw out there against TU (appears Marah is still hurt).
I imagine TU will be starting Barron tonight
For Linfield, I think Speyer will start tomorrow with Huckins and Haddeland in relief in a close game. Otherwise, they will use other relievers as needed. If they lose the first game, you can expect Haddeland to be on the bump to start game two.
Hopefully their offense will show up (4 and 5 hitters are a combied 1-22!). And shout out to Michael Hopp (only 6 starts all year), who had to fill in for Jake Wylie. All he has done is go 5-8 for 3 RBIs.
Final UTT 3 CLU 2.
Every game in this regional has been a good game (maybe with the exception of the Linfield PP game yesterday.)
UTT used 4 different pitchers but did not overuse their key staff. They should be able to cobble together enough to be competitive tonight. However, if they were to win tonight they will be fairly spent going into tomorrow. We shall see.
Trinity 3, UTT 1.
9 games so far and only one game's margin of victory was more than 2 runs.
TU vs Linfield tomorrow.
Another complete game gem from a Trinity pitcher, with Kyle Bogese going the distance in a 3-1 win that'll give them at least one more shot at Linfield. 9.0 IP, 6 H, 8 K, 3 BB.
Trinity only had four complete games all season prior to this regional.
Whatever happens tomorrow; this has been a terrific tournament. The pitching has been outstanding, the games have been defensively clean; this is really special. :o
Patriots fall but go 2-2 in the regional with one of their top starters hurt. This regional is one of the closest group of teams I can recall. Almost every game could of gone either way. Good pitching and some great defensive plays. For UTT it will have to be next year but a good season for them.
What a first three days of this West Regional. One great game after another. Linfield's in the catbird's seat only needing to win one. Trinity has a nice compliment of arms that should be available for tomorrow considering they've played one more game. Here's a quick look at the arms that could be available for tomorrow:
Linfield
Garett Speyer....... 3.43 0-0 12 0 0 0/1 3 21.0 (0 IP)
Garrett Miller...... 3.86 0-1 8 0 0 0/1 1 14.0 (0 IP)
Zach Manley......... 1.64 2-0 2 2 0 0/1 0 11.0 (0 IP)
Joseph Stevick...... 7.11 1-0 11 1 0 0/0 1 19.0 (0 IP)
Justin Huckins...... 1.32 2-1 15 0 0 0/1 7 34.0 (Day 3 - 2.1 IP)
Chris Haddeland.....1.05 12-1 14 13 7 2/0 1 103.1 (Day 1 - 9.0 IP; Day 3 - 1.1 IP)
Aaron Thomassen....2.66 11-1 13 13 0 0/1 0 81.1 (Day 2 - 7.0 IP)
Trinity
Carter Lauck........ 2.57 3-1 6 4 0 0/0 0 21.0 ( 0 IP)
Michael Bentz....... 2.87 3-0 16 0 0 0/0 3 31.1 (0 IP)
Ryan Gray........... 3.48 1-0 6 1 0 0/0 0 10.1 (0 IP)
Tanner Barron....... 4.50 2-1 10 7 0 0/0 0 28.0 (0 IP)
Andrew Alig......... 3.48 4-2 11 7 1 0/0 0 51.2 (Day 3 0.1 IP)
Ryan Lucero......... 1.98 10-1 13 13 4 3/0 0 82.0 (Day 1 9.0 IP)
Zack Speer.......... 1.54 9-0 11 10 1 0/1 0 70.1 (Day 2 9.0 IP)
Can't wait to see how this all plays out tomorrow.
I am so happy for Kyle Bogeese, he is a product of his hard work and coach Smith who has taken a kid who could throw hard and not find the strike zone and for him to come out and dominate today is a great accomplishment for him and the program. He did this without being able to get his curve or off speed pitches over so TT could just sit on his FB, which they did and still could score more than one run. That said, great season to UTT, congrats to them and their players, especially their seniors.
This may sound stupid, but I think Trinity has the advantage tomorrow since they still have so many arms left. They out played Linfield in the last game except for the first inning when their freshmen starter could not get out of the first inning. This is not to disrespect the great program of Linfield, just that I think Trinity is playing better ball right now and has a much deeper pitching staff.
We will see what happens tomorrow.
BTW, Concordia has been a perfect host for the Regionals, great facility and staff, great city, reasonable flights, good weather, good food and plenty of hotels. Hope it is here in the future.
As a few have posted very high quality baseball.
Linfield hasn't lost a game, you have...how can you say Trinity's been playing better?
And people wonder why I get annoyed by Trinity fans...
Southern Maine. :o
Hope that game is broadcast.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 18, 2013, 12:25:51 AM
Linfield hasn't lost a game, you have...how can you say Trinity's been playing better?
And people wonder why I get annoyed by Trinity fans...
This was his rationale. Just one man's opinion. Nothing wrong with it. I never realized you were annoyed. I always thought you were just jealous of our warm weather and spread out schedules.
"This may sound stupid, but I think Trinity has the advantage tomorrow since they still have so many arms left. They out played Linfield in the last game except for the first inning when their freshmen starter could not get out of the first inning. This is not to disrespect the great program of Linfield, just that I think Trinity is playing better ball right now and has a much deeper pitching staff."
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 18, 2013, 01:29:46 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 18, 2013, 12:25:51 AM
Linfield hasn't lost a game, you have...how can you say Trinity's been playing better?
And people wonder why I get annoyed by Trinity fans...
This was his rationale. Just one man's opinion. Nothing wrong with it. I never realized you were annoyed. I always thought you were just jealous of our warm weather and spread out schedules.
"This may sound stupid, but I think Trinity has the advantage tomorrow since they still have so many arms left. They out played Linfield in the last game except for the first inning when their freshmen starter could not get out of the first inning. This is not to disrespect the great program of Linfield, just that I think Trinity is playing better ball right now and has a much deeper pitching staff."
he just loves to hate on trinity.
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 18, 2013, 01:29:46 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 18, 2013, 12:25:51 AM
Linfield hasn't lost a game, you have...how can you say Trinity's been playing better?
And people wonder why I get annoyed by Trinity fans...
This was his rationale. Just one man's opinion. Nothing wrong with it. I never realized you were annoyed. I always thought you were just jealous of our warm weather and spread out schedules.
"This may sound stupid, but I think Trinity has the advantage tomorrow since they still have so many arms left. They out played Linfield in the last game except for the first inning when their freshmen starter could not get out of the first inning. This is not to disrespect the great program of Linfield, just that I think Trinity is playing better ball right now and has a much deeper pitching staff."
I guess you missed that part.
I would have been jealous of the weather in February. Today where I live it was 73 degrees and cloudy. You can keep your swampass and 100 degrees in the summertime.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 18, 2013, 01:36:28 AM
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 18, 2013, 01:29:46 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 18, 2013, 12:25:51 AM
Linfield hasn't lost a game, you have...how can you say Trinity's been playing better?
And people wonder why I get annoyed by Trinity fans...
This was his rationale. Just one man's opinion. Nothing wrong with it. I never realized you were annoyed. I always thought you were just jealous of our warm weather and spread out schedules.
"This may sound stupid, but I think Trinity has the advantage tomorrow since they still have so many arms left. They out played Linfield in the last game except for the first inning when their freshmen starter could not get out of the first inning. This is not to disrespect the great program of Linfield, just that I think Trinity is playing better ball right now and has a much deeper pitching staff."
I guess you missed that part.
I would have been jealous of the weather in February. Today where I live it was 73 degrees and cloudy. You can keep your swampass and 100 degrees in the summertime.
I guess you missed that part.
Other than one bad inning, Trinity has played exceptional tournament baseball. Based on how they are playing and the arms they have available, he likes their chances tomorrow. Again, I see nothing wrong with that.
73 degrees and cloudy. Sounds like paradise.
Pretty much. Can't beat the north in the summer.
I don't see how you can say you're playing better than a team that hasn't lost.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Yesterday on this board we were hearing all about how great Alig has been.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 18, 2013, 12:07:05 AM
This may sound stupid, but I think Trinity has the advantage tomorrow since they still have so many arms left. They out played Linfield in the last game except for the first inning when their freshmen starter could not get out of the first inning. This is not to disrespect the great program of Linfield, just that I think Trinity is playing better ball right now and has a much deeper pitching staff.
We will see what happens tomorrow.
I have seen Linfield play many times over the past several years and I just think Linfield executes the little things so well that it is very hard to beat them twice in 1 day. Trinity has a great team again but in the past it just never seems to get past the regional to get to Appleton. It will take 2 games but I see Linfield going to Appleton AGAIN while Trinity gets close again and goes home. Defense will be key along with little things like stolen bases, sac bunts, hit and run etc...
The last time that I remember a team playing twice on the last day was Chapman beating TLU in game 11 back about 2004 or so.
Those old archives are somewhere on the D3boards.com message boards (ASC football, I think ;) ) from two iterations ago! :)
I think that Linfield will head to Appleton. They will probably go 1-2 or 2-2, and lose to a cold weather team.
My take-home will be that there were 6 competitive teams playing in Austin. None of the teams were blown out this week.
The entire West Region is very well-balanced and as a whole, just slightly behind the ultra-elite teams in the better regions. If I were ranking a Top 75/top quintile of the 360+ teams that play D3baseball, Linfield will be Top 10. Trinity and UTT in the Top 25 and then another 4-5 teams would be in the Top 75. (TLU,Cal LU, PP and GFU, with Centenary in the wings.) All of this is from the smallest region in terms of members in D3.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 18, 2013, 10:34:54 AM
The last time that I remember a team playing twice on the last day was Chapman beating TLU in game 11 back about 2004 or so.
'05. Akamine & Sulentor (think he was a FR then) both threw complete games.
Also back when it was a 4-team regional so you didn't need as much depth on the bump to come out of the West.
JSG
Yes! I think that I listened to both games on the internet on KQED! :)
The year was 2005.
chapmanathletics.com
Listed in the archives for baseball.
Linfield's Brosius is looking a bit like a mad scientist with his game one lineup. Starting a Freshman Catcher that hasn't had an at bat all year. And starting Joe Stevick (he of the 7+ ERA) on the bump. We shall see how this plays out. It also looks like Wylie is back in the lineup at DH. Even a 50% Wylie can probably help this offense right now. Should be a fun one.
For Trinity, Ryan Gray (3.48, 1-0, 6 APP, 10.1 IP, .216 OBO) gets only his second start of the year.
Speaking of Wylie, does anyone know what his injury was in game 1?
When you're the 9 hole hitter ... In a 0-0 game with runners on first and second with a 3-1 count, it might be a good time to take a pitch. Worst case you have a full count and the runners are in motion. Instead we reach and ground weakly to 2b and leave the player of the year on deck.
The thing that struck me about this regional is how the offenses were shut down. Cal Lutheran and P-P had (on paper) the two best offenses in the regional and could not break out. Was the pitching and defense that dominant or was the offensive stats those two teams had over stated. Perhaps as a reflection of the teams they played. You can build big offensive stat sheet playing teams that are weak in pitching and defense.
Maybee a little of both.
We've been patient, selective hitters all year. Today... Not so much. Lindell swings first pitch after the pitching change 4-6-3
Quote from: TexasBB on May 18, 2013, 02:26:54 PM
The thing that struck me about this regional is how the offenses were shut down. Cal Lutheran and P-P had (on paper) the two best offenses in the regional and could not break out. Was the pitching and defense that dominant or was the offensive stats those two teams had over stated. Perhaps as a reflection of the teams they played. You can build big offensive stat sheet playing teams that are weak in pitching and defense.
Maybee a little of both.
I kind of thought the same thing about the Wisconsin and Minnesota teams...playing that many games in a week leads to facing some pretty mediocre pitching. Lot less scoring in that regional than numbers might have led to expect.
If the ball is jarred loose by the wall.. That isn't an error.
Wow. This is fun! Maybe the picture of the "good looking" Trinity guy on the D3 homepage brought some luck. ;D
Really curious who will start this next game.
Trinity throws a punch, time to see if linfield can deliver one back! Ticket to Appleton on the line
We would love to see Trinity get this game for Coach Scannell and his great staff. If I had to guess, it would be far more important for Coach Scannell and Coach Smith to get this one for Coach Meccage and Schmos.
I have no predictions about Game #11.
We have seen 10 games in which punch/counterpunch has been given.
If Game #11 were a video game, I can imagine the finale as one big battle. There may be one fatal blow, complete with blood and guts, explosions and pyrotechnics.
This regional has been fun!
It was fun while it lasted.
Wind is blowing out to left field today. If the ball gets up, the wind can carry it.
Trinity 3b is $
I missed it...was the call correct or does Linfield have a beef?
Rib eye bone in!
Ball is touched by the pitcher, he changes the direction of the ground ball up the middle and it hits Wilson advancing from 1b to 2b.
Once the pitcher gloves it, he is no longer being contacted by a batted ball.
...wow....
I don't have an NCAA rulebook in front of me.
However, the NFHS rulebook is as follows:
[the runner is out] if contacted by a fair batted ball before it touches an infielder, or after it passes any infielder, except the pitcher, and the umpire is convinced that another infielder has a play.
Final Linfield 3 Trinity 1
Thank you to PAWS (The Trinity Parents Club) whom I assume manned the broadcasts.
Haddeland has to be the regional MVP - he was the difference maker all tournament.
A fine mess you got me in Ollie!
You guys all get to banter about the West Regional and I believed the LINFIELD home site that said the final game is tomorrow (Sunday) and took a nap.
Quote from: D O.C. on May 18, 2013, 07:15:50 PM
A fine mess you got me in Ollie!
You guys all get to banter about the West Regional and I believed the LINFIELD home site that said the final game is tomorrow (Sunday) and took a nap.
A Willamette ex hacked the website. ;)
ALL-TOURNAMENT TEAM
Nick Boggan (California Lutheran)
Jake Beam (Texas-Tyler)
Cayden Canniff (Texas-Tyler)
Pat Hirschberg (Trinity)
Ryan Lucero (Trinity)
Connor Moore (Trinity)
Nick Fisher (Linfield)
Chris Haddeland (Linfield) ***Most Outstanding Player***
Michael Hopp (Linfield)
Aaron Thomassen (Linfield)
Tim Wilson (Linfield)
Great Regional and Go 'Cats!
That was a very competitive regional. For all the discussion about who should have been there (or not) the teams were pretty closely matched and competitive.
The facilities and management of the site was excellent, thanks to Concordia for an excellent venue. There were plenty of hotels, restaurants, and other services available, really can't think of a better place to have one.
I was surprised how few runs were scored overall, with the wind blowing out to left most of the tournament, there were surprisingly few home runs. Pitching overall in the tournament was excellent.
In the end Linfield was the better team. They got lucky in that they made quite a few errors and got away with them, but their pitching held just enough and their offense was the difference in the tournament for them IMO. They have some beasts on that team, 3-6 is a tough stretch any pitcher. Well run, good disciplined program. Congrats to them and best of luck in Appleton.
Trinity came up just short yet again, but this was a very very good team and played championship baseball all week. Pitching did everything expected of them and their defense was the best in the tournament IMO, in addition they made some spectacular plays. I think they only made 3 errors in 6 games, this was a huge improvement over earlier in the season. I think a real contributing factor for Trinity this year was their weak schedule, not that they could do much about it, but not facing tougher pitching and tighter games day in and day out makes a difference when it comes to offensive execution IMO. I don't have time to go into the stats but I am sure the numbers would not be good with men in scoring position, they just left too many men on base. Another great year for the program and while I know there are some disappointed Sr's, not many programs field teams this good year in and year out.
Big Storylines of the Tournament:
1) Chris Haddeland - 2-0, 1 SV, 16 IP, 0 Runs. Absolutely ridiculous numbers. Without a doubt the Most Oustanding Player in the tournament and a big reason why Linfield is heading to Appleton. BTW he season numbers are just as incredible and, at this point, the top candidate for National Pitcher of the Year.
2) Tremendous amount of balance and talent in this region - This was a fantastic regional to watch. Every game was decided by 2 runs or less (except Linfield's win over Pomona) and a lot of them were nerve-wracking all the way to the very end (especially Saturday's heavy weight bout between Linfield and Trinity). IMO every team showed they were deserving of being there (including TLU and P-P). TLU were competitive against two of the top teams and P-P probably should have won their opener against UT-Tyler.
3) Pitching dominance - Let's face it, there were some excellent pitching performances throughout the weekend. Haddeland started and finished the tournament with a bang. Lucero vs. Peterson was an excellent pitcher's duel as well (tough loss for Peterson and unfortunate draw for Cal Lu as the #2 seed). Trinity had a number of other great performances as well that included Speer (150+ pitch effort to beat Tyler), Walker (7+ IP relief effort to give them a chance against Linfield), and Bogese (went CG and allowed only 1 run in an elimination game). Something should also be said about Linfield's staff as a whole. For the tournament they sported a fine 1.60 ERA that included solid starts from Thomassen, Brandon, and Stevick (especially Stevick's who came in with an ERA of 7+ and had limited innings all year).
I agree with you NWBB. I did not believe going into this Linfield had enough pitching to go two games on Saturday, which is why I thought TU had the advantage, but throwing 16 innings made up the difference. Frankly knowing what I know about pitching and injuries I would not be too happy if my son threw 16 innings in 4 days, but there is no question he was a difference maker for Linfield.
Best of luck to Linfield at Appleton, I will be sure to watch their first game.
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
i bet he will be able to lift that trophy with ease, no matter how many pitches he throws this weekend
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
who's to say he wasn't begging Brosius for the ball? If I am the coach and my stud wants the ball and can be effective, which he obviously was, I am giving it to him every time.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
Not that it's necessarily a fair comparison, but ask Scott Hyde if he feels the same way.
If he asked for the ball (and most big game guys do), I'd have given it to him too, but there's plenty of cases of overworked guys that were never the same.
Hyde pitched as a pro that summer, started 10 more games. That was probably foolish on the Mets' part. He threw 175 innings in total that year.
Not sure you can link a workload over 2 weeks to an injury that happened the next year.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 11:38:06 AM
Hyde pitched as a pro that summer, started 10 more games. That was probably foolish on the Mets' part. He threw 175 innings in total that year.
Not sure you can link a workload over 2 weeks to an injury that happened the next year.
Just about everything written by Dr Andrews, ASMI and most others on overuse would certainly link what happened with throwing 35-36 innings, all high stress innings, over about 12 days as playing an important role in what happened. Couple the innings, number of pitches and the fact his very best pitch was a hard slider(really good one) and the linkage becomes even stronger. When we add that the 10 starts were for a total of 50 innings over 2 months, trying to argue those 50 innings as opposed to the arm stress/fatigue of what occurred from the start of the West Region to the Championship game in Appleton makes little sense to me.
First I am really happy for him and his team and this should not in anyway take away from that at all. I am just saying that based on the evidence there is a risk of injury. Doing it once will not likely hurt him, but if it is a pattern then there is a significant risk. I took a look at his numbers and he has 109 innings, and this to me is excessive. But it is his life so more power to him .
I did not see all of the games but nearly every pitcher I saw except one was a real pro prospect so if he hurts his arm in the overall scheme of things it won't hurt him pushing a pencil when he gets out of college. He can 1) Go on with life and not worry about it 2) Get TJ surgery and go on and be able to throw BP to his kids.
Now if he was a pro prospect and I was him/his family I would say do not risk your future for a single game/championship. Most pitchers in this category understand this and know how to take care of themselves.
Haddeland also had 11 days of rest between his last regular season start and the regional.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 12:18:59 PM
First I am really happy for him and his team and this should not in anyway take away from that at all. I am just saying that based on the evidence there is a risk of injury. Doing it once will not likely hurt him, but if it is a pattern then there is a significant risk. I took a look at his numbers and he has 109 innings, and this to me is excessive. But it is his life so more power to him .
I did not see all of the games but nearly every pitcher I saw except one was a real pro prospect so if he hurts his arm in the overall scheme of things it won't hurt him pushing a pencil when he gets out of college. He can 1) Go on with life and not worry about it 2) Get TJ surgery and go on and be able to throw BP to his kids.
Now if he was a pro prospect and I was him/his family I would say do not risk your future for a single game/championship. Most pitchers in this category understand this and know how to take care of themselves.
With his father a well respected physican in McMinnville and coach Brosius also well respected, I think they are mindful and understand how to handle player/son...on to Appleton !
wildcat11,
I think it is very important to keep the Hyde reference I made earlier separate because all pitchers are somewhat different. Not having seen Haddeland, I don't know if his primary pitch is the slider. Certainly he has a very different frame from Scott Hyde and I assume velocity.
With that said, it isn't how much rest coming into the Regional, it is how much rest coming out. I assume he will be pitching on Friday and how much use occurs from then to ??? depends on how much success Linfield has in Appleton.
Quote from: infielddad on May 20, 2013, 11:57:31 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 11:38:06 AM
Hyde pitched as a pro that summer, started 10 more games. That was probably foolish on the Mets' part. He threw 175 innings in total that year.
Not sure you can link a workload over 2 weeks to an injury that happened the next year.
Just about everything written by Dr Andrews, ASMI and most others on overuse would certainly link what happened with throwing 35-36 innings, all high stress innings, over about 12 days as playing an important role in what happened. Couple the innings, number of pitches and the fact his very best pitch was a hard slider(really good one) and the linkage becomes even stronger. When we add that the 10 starts were for a total of 50 innings over 2 months and trying to argue those 50 innings as opposed to the arm stress/fatigue of what occurred from the start of the West Region to the Championship game in Appleton makes little sense to me.
There's so much more to it than that. I can think of probably 10 questions that are relevant to injury risk and probably no one here knows the answer unless they're from Grants Pass.
But I do know this...175 innings is more than Steven Strasburg was allowed to throw last year. And sliders are hard on the arm no matter who is throwing them or how much. And none of us know much about his training regimen or history. But more than likely nothing that happened in 2004 had all that much to do with it.
Lucero got hurt last year...what was the cause of that? Did you blame the coach for that one? I bet not.
There's an interesting quote from Dr. Andrews...who, significantly IMO, has chosen in recent years to focus his efforts on practices in youth baseball and says pitchers shouldn't throw curveballs before 14 or even later (I imagine sliders are later still). Dr. Timothy Kremchek of Cincinnati (Reds' team doctor who also has a private practice) has campaigned for curveballs to be outright banned in little league.
"You hear youth coaches say all the time, 'I've never had an arm problem under my watch,' " Andrews said. "And I think to myself, 'No, but some
high school or college coach is dealing with the damage you caused years ago.' "Sorry but I don't think it's prudent to jump to conclusions like this. I really don't have much more to say...I'm not really interested in getting embroiled in a discussion in which likely none of us have any real expertise.
This is from an interview with Scott Hyde himself, describing the pain he was having, the loss of velocity and medication use during the Summer of 2004, following 35 high stress innings:
"When they went in, they found that the Tommy John ligament had not only come completely off the bone, but it brought some part of the bone off with it."
That left no choice but for doctors to perform the famed surgery upon the right-hander, who previously performed as a collegiate standout at George Fox University, a small Christian university in Newburg, Ore.
Hyde, who had the surgery in mid-May, actually didn't even begin pitching until his senior year of high school. You wouldn't have known that watching him in 2004, however, as Hyde went 14-1 with a 1.99 ERA, striking out 191 batters in 122 innings as he led George Fox University to a Division III World Series Championship.
The campaign delivered a heavy workload to Hyde's doorstep, which perhaps could have been a precursor to arm troubles. In a five-day stretch from May 28 through June 1, 2004, Hyde threw 20 innings, firing a pair of complete game victories and two innings of relief as George Fox University battled for a crown.
As a result, the Mets had hoped to keep Hyde's arm quiet for most of 2004, but when Brooklyn pitcher William Quaglieri went down to injury in mid-July, Hyde was called upon to step in.
He performed decently, going 4-4 with a 3.86 ERA in 10 starts, but quietly popped Celebrex pills to help ease the growing pain in his right arm.
"I was noticing my velocity was way down, only throwing 83-87 miles per hour," Hyde said. "I just thought I was tired and my arm would get pretty sore. My forearm would get super-tight and I couldn't get the forearm to loosen up at all.
"... Sometimes in the bullpen sessions, I'd throw just 10 pitches or so, and my arm would get so sore, I couldn't throw anymore."'
Having watched how a number of other organizations used higher round picks with a lot of college innings, it sure makes sense the Mets could have been more careful. Also, everything I read said Hyde didn't start to pitch until his senior year in HS so the Andrews reference makes little sense.
Saying those 12-13 days had nothing to do with the surgery findings makes little sense to me so we can very much agree to completely disagree.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 12:18:59 PM
First I am really happy for him and his team and this should not in anyway take away from that at all. I am just saying that based on the evidence there is a risk of injury. Doing it once will not likely hurt him, but if it is a pattern then there is a significant risk. I took a look at his numbers and he has 109 innings, and this to me is excessive. But it is his life so more power to him .
(snip)
Now if he was a pro prospect and I was him/his family I would say do not risk your future for a single game/championship. Most pitchers in this category understand this and know how to take care of themselves.
Quick quiz...how many innings did Ben Klimesh throw for Trinity last year?
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
Smart is not in the discussion. Same thing happens in D1 ball also with pitch counts north of 130 many times for many teams. Many College coaches is all about the Winning and very rarely is thinking about next year or future pro prospects. Not all coaches are that way but look at the pitch counts for NCAA Regionals and World Series at all 3 levels and you find high pitch counts and little rest for some pitchers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=4252555
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/722716-college-baseball-world-series-2011-news-results-and-analysis/entry/101810-college-baseball-world-series-are-pitch-counts-needed-for-college-baseball
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/04/514204/coaches-dilemma-pitch-counts.html
Quote from: infielddad on May 20, 2013, 12:38:42 PM
As a result, the Mets had hoped to keep Hyde's arm quiet for most of 2004, but when Brooklyn pitcher William Quaglieri went down to injury in mid-July, Hyde was called upon to step in.
He performed decently, going 4-4 with a 3.86 ERA in 10 starts, but quietly popped Celebrex pills to help ease the growing pain in his right arm.
"I was noticing my velocity was way down, only throwing 83-87 miles per hour," Hyde said. "I just thought I was tired and my arm would get pretty sore. My forearm would get super-tight and I couldn't get the forearm to loosen up at all.
"... Sometimes in the bullpen sessions, I'd throw just 10 pitches or so, and my arm would get so sore, I couldn't throw anymore."'
Having watched how a number of other organizations used higher round picks with a lot of college innings, it sure makes sense the Mets could have been more careful. Also, everything I read said Hyde didn't start to pitch until his senior year in HS so the Andrews reference makes little sense.
Saying those 12-13 days had nothing to do with the surgery findings makes little sense to me so we can very much agree to completely disagree.
Did I say "had nothing to do with"? I believe I said I don't think you can make a definitive link between the two. What if him not pitching at all as a kid, then 3 years later throwing 175 innings was a factor? Some people I know would say it might well have been, that kids need to strengthen their arms (not necessarily with breaking pitches, just throwing) as high schoolers -- just as there can be overuse, there can also be underconditioning. We don't know anything about his arm care regimen, I don't know anything about his mechanics (maybe someone here does), etc.
What I do think that interview very clearly shows is two things -- 1. Hyde was not honest with the Mets about his condition, which any coach will tell you is a problematic situation if an understandable ones in some instances; and 2. That the Mets knew the risk they were taking when they started him back up. They had initially shut him down for a reason.
One thing does stand out in my mind though. I remember when he was asked when his arm hurt in that last outing for GF...I believe the quote was very close to "from the first pitch to the last." My next question would have been...did Coach Bailey know that? IIRC, Bailey said he was hoping to get a couple of innings out of him. Was Hyde honest with his coach then (seems fair question given that he wasn't with the Mets)?
Finally, as has been pointed out, none of this is necessarily applicable to Linfield and Haddeland.
It was around 105-110, my point was that the combination of innings and then to throw 16 in 3 games over 4 days.
I want to be sure that I am clear here, I am extremely happy for him and his program. Just saying that IF he was a pro prospect then it could be an issue for him. IMO he is not so I am happy just to let this drop. If someone wants to open another thread on it great, but lets not take away from his performance, it was spectacular.
Congrats and I will be rooting for Linfield later this week.
Did you say "nothing to do with it?"
Seems to me you did with this appearing to be your summary:
"But more than likely nothing that happened in 2004 had all that much to do with it. "
I think the post which Crash provided and the links are a very accurate summary. Some coaches are out to win at the college level, at all costs. I have read message boards posts from a well respected D1 pitching coach who is also a head coach. He regularly has his starters go 150 pitches,even in February, and he supports it publicly. That makes sense since their livelihood usually depends on winning.
As your comments illustrate and tigerfan2001 noted earlier, highly competitive pitchers are very, very unlikely to say no. Most coaches love those kids and try and recruit those types. The kid who does not want that ball is not a very attractive recruit.
In between winning as the ultimate goal and highly competitive athletes who won't say no, there are some tough decisions which get made without very good knowledge of the health inside that elbow or shoulder or both.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
Smart is not in the discussion. Same thing happens in D1 ball also with pitch counts north of 130 many times for many teams. Many College coaches is all about the Winning and very rarely is thinking about next year or future pro prospects. Not all coaches are that way but look at the pitch counts for NCAA Regionals and World Series at all 3 levels and you find high pitch counts and little rest for some pitchers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=4252555
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/722716-college-baseball-world-series-2011-news-results-and-analysis/entry/101810-college-baseball-world-series-are-pitch-counts-needed-for-college-baseball
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/04/514204/coaches-dilemma-pitch-counts.html
The Bleacher Report article (like most BR articles) is trash. Though it's funny because I watched Matthew Price in high school and Legion ball in SC (he was their #3 pitcher as a rising junior!) and 100 pitches was not a problem for him -- he has such a sturdy build, very strong lower body. He would have been physically ready for pro ball as a soph at SC.
Also worth mentioning is that Price didn't pitch as a pro in 2012 after 77IP in the college season.
Quoted in the other two articles is Mike Fox, who as probably many here know is a former Division III national champion coach (and might as well get half credit -- or more -- for another).
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 01:13:26 PM
The Bleacher Report article (like most BR articles) is trash.
First thought when I saw the BR link.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 01:05:57 PM
It was around 105-110, my point was that the combination of innings and then to throw 16 in 3 games over 4 days.
110 2/3, the most ever in a season at Trinity. So 109 was too much if he was a pro prospect, but 110 is fine? Weird. Klimesh started a second game in the regional last year...the only he didn't throw 18 innings is because he was ineffective.
Sometimes coaches need to make the decision even if the player is begging for the ball. Look at RGIII.
I dont care if its tournament ball, playoff ball, or high school ball, or any ball - Throwing 200+/- pitches over a four day period with only one day rest is asking for trouble.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 01:13:26 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
Smart is not in the discussion. Same thing happens in D1 ball also with pitch counts north of 130 many times for many teams. Many College coaches is all about the Winning and very rarely is thinking about next year or future pro prospects. Not all coaches are that way but look at the pitch counts for NCAA Regionals and World Series at all 3 levels and you find high pitch counts and little rest for some pitchers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=4252555
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/722716-college-baseball-world-series-2011-news-results-and-analysis/entry/101810-college-baseball-world-series-are-pitch-counts-needed-for-college-baseball
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/04/514204/coaches-dilemma-pitch-counts.html
The Bleacher Report article (like most BR articles) is trash. Though it's funny because I watched Matthew Price in high school and Legion ball in SC (he was their #3 pitcher as a rising junior!) and 100 pitches was not a problem for him -- he has such a sturdy build, very strong lower body. He would have been physically ready for pro ball as a soph at SC.
Also worth mentioning is that Price didn't pitch as a pro in 2012 after 77IP in the college season.
Quoted in the other two articles is Mike Fox, who as probably many here know is a former Division III national champion coach (and might as well get half credit -- or more -- for another).
I have seen pitchers personally pitch on 1 day rest and also pitch north or 130 pitches in different years in Regionals and DIII CWS.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 01:22:07 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 01:13:26 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
Smart is not in the discussion. Same thing happens in D1 ball also with pitch counts north of 130 many times for many teams. Many College coaches is all about the Winning and very rarely is thinking about next year or future pro prospects. Not all coaches are that way but look at the pitch counts for NCAA Regionals and World Series at all 3 levels and you find high pitch counts and little rest for some pitchers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=4252555
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/722716-college-baseball-world-series-2011-news-results-and-analysis/entry/101810-college-baseball-world-series-are-pitch-counts-needed-for-college-baseball
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/04/514204/coaches-dilemma-pitch-counts.html
The Bleacher Report article (like most BR articles) is trash. Though it's funny because I watched Matthew Price in high school and Legion ball in SC (he was their #3 pitcher as a rising junior!) and 100 pitches was not a problem for him -- he has such a sturdy build, very strong lower body. He would have been physically ready for pro ball as a soph at SC.
Also worth mentioning is that Price didn't pitch as a pro in 2012 after 77IP in the college season.
Quoted in the other two articles is Mike Fox, who as probably many here know is a former Division III national champion coach (and might as well get half credit -- or more -- for another).
I have seen pitchers personally pitch on 1 day rest and also pitch north or 130 pitches in different years in Regionals and DIII CWS.
And I disagree with it whenever it happens.
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 01:23:14 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 01:22:07 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 01:13:26 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 12:49:14 PM
Quote from: dp643 on May 20, 2013, 09:28:20 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 04:41:16 AM
Pitch counts, inning pitched and rest days mean nothing in playoff baseball.
I agree...but +/- 200 pitches over 4 days isn't very smart.
Smart is not in the discussion. Same thing happens in D1 ball also with pitch counts north of 130 many times for many teams. Many College coaches is all about the Winning and very rarely is thinking about next year or future pro prospects. Not all coaches are that way but look at the pitch counts for NCAA Regionals and World Series at all 3 levels and you find high pitch counts and little rest for some pitchers.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=4252555
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/722716-college-baseball-world-series-2011-news-results-and-analysis/entry/101810-college-baseball-world-series-are-pitch-counts-needed-for-college-baseball
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/06/04/514204/coaches-dilemma-pitch-counts.html
The Bleacher Report article (like most BR articles) is trash. Though it's funny because I watched Matthew Price in high school and Legion ball in SC (he was their #3 pitcher as a rising junior!) and 100 pitches was not a problem for him -- he has such a sturdy build, very strong lower body. He would have been physically ready for pro ball as a soph at SC.
Also worth mentioning is that Price didn't pitch as a pro in 2012 after 77IP in the college season.
Quoted in the other two articles is Mike Fox, who as probably many here know is a former Division III national champion coach (and might as well get half credit -- or more -- for another).
I have seen pitchers personally pitch on 1 day rest and also pitch north or 130 pitches in different years in Regionals and DIII CWS.
And I disagree with it whenever it happens.
You may disagree but it continue to happen in NCAA baseball in playoff type games. It has been going on for a long time and I would expect it to continue unless the NCAA steps in to change this. Not sure if that will happen anytime soon. Changes were made to the bats to make it it a safer game but will they take steps to do the same for pitchers.
http://baseballnews.com/health/are-pitchers-being-coddled-too-much-today/
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 01:05:57 PM
It was around 105-110, my point was that the combination of innings and then to throw 16 in 3 games over 4 days.
110 2/3, the most ever in a season at Trinity. So 109 was too much if he was a pro prospect, but 110 is fine? Weird. Klimesh started a second game in the regional last year...the only he didn't throw 18 innings is because he was ineffective.
It's not solely the total innings pitched, it's time frame in which those innings are thrown as well.
Couple of factors to consider: At no point in the 2012 season did Klimesh throw 3 out of 4 consecutive days. Klimesh did start the opening game of the Regional and then again on two days rest (the fourth day of the tournament) where he went 4 innings giving up 2 runs. A new pitcher started the 5th inning. It's pure speculation on your part to say he would have thrown more if he wasn't ineffective (4 IP 2 runs is on the way to 6 IP and 3 runs which is considered a quality start).
I'm having a hard time recalling a coach ever pulling his ace out of a game after 4 innings and 2 runs unless there were other factors involved. If you're trying to ride a guy for all he's worth since he is by far your best arm that season, you trot him out in the fifth and see if he can give you more. You don't replace the guy with a 1.7 ERA with a guy that had an 8 ERA. If he gets in trouble, then you yank him. The next 4 batters he would have faced were 2-7 with a walk. One of the hits was an infield single. The score was 2-1 at that point.
Personally, I'm very much in agreement with whoever said a player's ceiling should be considered when you're deciding how far you're going to push an arm's limits in a tournament. If he has the potential to play at the next level, I think it's the coach's obligation to show some restraint on how frequently you use him. Just because he gives you the best opportunity to win today, doesn't mean you should trot him back out there. However, if a D3 championship would be the pinnacle of his individual baseball career, I think you can justify pushing the limit.
Scott Brosius is a smart, smart baseball guy. Each situation is unique. What Haddeland did was other-wordly in this Regional and I tip my cap to him. I hope it works out well for both of them in the long-term.
Theres a gap between being coddled and over used, and I think everyone can agree that he was much closer to the side of overuse.
I dont have a cat in this fight as my team I root for didnt make it far in the conference tournament. I also, if anything, predicted the Texas teams to lay an egg this regional. But you cant sit here with a straight face and defend throwing a kid that many innings/pitches 3 out of 4 days in a tournament. Maybe he can handle it and there will be no ill effects from doing so, but only being a sophmore and potentially the best D3 pitcher (with draft potential), I dont think its worth the risk.
But then again maybe thats why I wouldnt win a regional if I was a coach, who knows.
Quote
Personally, I'm very much in agreement with whoever said a player's ceiling should be considered when you're deciding how far you're going to push an arm's limits in a tournament. If he has the potential to play at the next level, I think it's the coach's obligation to show some restraint on how frequently you use him. Just because he gives you the best opportunity to win today, doesn't mean you should trot him back out there. However, if a D3 championship would be the pinnacle of his individual baseball career, I think you can justify pushing the limit.
Exactly my point. In his case it is the peak of his career so go for it.
Hopefully one last point Forheaven, and probably one of the few times I will agree with you, if I was Klimesh's parent I would recommend that he NOT come out to start another game after throwing a complete game two days earlier. I could see him in a save situation with an inning here or there, that's it for a pro prospect. A DIII championship is not worth it in my book to risk a career.
I think it also depends on the individual and throwing program. Some players recover faster than others. Some programs have very extensive conditioning programs to support the innings and short rest, I am sure Linfield probably has a program similar to Trinity's (which is one of the best IMO and I know a lot about this subject) Getting even further off track on this Trinity's program is absolutely leading edge as good as any of the D1 programs I looked at - pilates, yoga, targeted explosive workouts, long toss, bands, sand balls, medicine balls, Coach Smith has blended the best of the best into a comprehensive year round program. IMO this is a huge contributing factor to their success, and if they do go out there they are as prepared as you can be given the circumstances.
I am with DP643 on this one, I would likely not win a DIII championship and frankly I think there are more important things in life. I wish I was in Appleton this week, but hey there is always next year. 8-)
And to be clear Haddeland rocked and was great.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 03:37:16 PM
Quote
Personally, I'm very much in agreement with whoever said a player's ceiling should be considered when you're deciding how far you're going to push an arm's limits in a tournament. If he has the potential to play at the next level, I think it's the coach's obligation to show some restraint on how frequently you use him. Just because he gives you the best opportunity to win today, doesn't mean you should trot him back out there. However, if a D3 championship would be the pinnacle of his individual baseball career, I think you can justify pushing the limit.
Exactly my point. In his case it is the peak of his career so go for it.
Hopefully one last point Forheaven, and probably one of the few times I will agree with you, if I was Klimesh's parent I would recommend that he NOT come out to start another game after throwing a complete game two days earlier. I could see him in a save situation with an inning here or there, that's it for a pro prospect. A DIII championship is not worth it in my book to risk a career.
I think it also depends on the individual and throwing program. Some players recover faster than others. Some programs have very extensive conditioning programs to support the innings and short rest, I am sure Linfield probably has a program similar to Trinity's (which is one of the best IMO and I know a lot about this subject) Getting even further off track on this Trinity's program is absolutely leading edge as good as any of the D1 programs I looked at - pilates, yoga, targeted explosive workouts, long toss, bands, sand balls, medicine balls, Coach Smith has blended the best of the best into a comprehensive year round program. IMO this is a huge contributing factor to their success, and if they do go out there they are as prepared as you can be given the circumstances.
I am with DP643 on this one, I would likely not win a DIII championship and frankly I think there are more important things in life. I wish I was in Appleton this week, but hey there is always next year. 8-)
And to be clear Haddeland rocked and was great.
No doubt he dominated the tournament. What a show he put on.
It's funny that all the talk has been about Haddeland being overused, but no one has mentioned that Speer, for Trinity, threw 152 pitches on Thursday and then threw 20 pitches on Saturday. Now, granted I agree that Haddeland's work load was more extreme, but if you're concerned about him then Speer should be considered in this discussion as well.
As mentioned already, in this thread, coaches don't always base their decisions on # of pitches thrown. A lot of other factors come into play like how many of those innings are considered "stressful" or how many times did the # of pitches in an inning exceed 20-25, etc... I don't think any of those factors came into play in Wednesday's game and, ultimately, that made the decision to use him again in the tournament easier.
Regarding Pitch Counts & Innings Pitched
Honestly parents have no say. It is between the coach and the player at this point. Both are adults they will make the decisions and parents really have no business in this discussion.
Also the difference between winning a Regional or a National Championship could be one pitcher throwing those extra pitches or innings.
Almost all players and coaches will do what it takes to win. Those who dont go home many times.
Quote from: Texas Leaguer on May 20, 2013, 03:08:38 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 01:20:22 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 01:05:57 PM
It was around 105-110, my point was that the combination of innings and then to throw 16 in 3 games over 4 days.
110 2/3, the most ever in a season at Trinity. So 109 was too much if he was a pro prospect, but 110 is fine? Weird. Klimesh started a second game in the regional last year...the only he didn't throw 18 innings is because he was ineffective.
It's not solely the total innings pitched, it's time frame in which those innings are thrown as well.
Couple of factors to consider: At no point in the 2012 season did Klimesh throw 3 out of 4 consecutive days. Klimesh did start the opening game of the Regional and then again on two days rest (the fourth day of the tournament) where he went 4 innings giving up 2 runs. A new pitcher started the 5th inning. It's pure speculation on your part to say he would have thrown more if he wasn't ineffective (4 IP 2 runs is on the way to 6 IP and 3 runs which is considered a quality start).
This is extremely misleading and borderline dishonest. Klimesh had walked 4 in 4 innings, given up at least 8 baserunners (can't remember if there were errors or hit batters, but I know there were 4 hits also) and struck out no one. I would hazard to guess that might be the only time he failed to strike out a batter in an outing in his career. He just wasn't effective, and leaving him in at that point was a risk not to him, but to the team's chances of winning. I remember watching the game and he was living on the edge of disaster the whole time. IIRC, he had trouble bouncing back in previous years as well...which is weird because now he's a reliever in the pros. ???
And 3 runs in 6IP is not a quality start at this level (and really not at the MLB level, is 4.50 ERA a quality pitcher?). How many games in the West regional this year would 4 runs allowed in 9 innings have won?
Foreheaven.
Let me give you some advice on board etiquette.
You can talk all you want about programs, coaches, situations, games, etc, but when you start denigrating individual players regardless of the level and situation you have crossed the line with me and probably everyone else here.
I suggest you take your arrogance and go somewhere else.
You are really not welcomed here in my book.
Good day sir.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
Foreheaven.
Let me give you some advice on board etiquette.
You can talk all you want about programs, coaches, situations, games, etc, but when you start denigrating individual players regardless of the level and situation you have crossed the line with me and probably everyone else here.
What in the hell are you talking about? Who did I denigrate and how?
And apparently now's when the Trinity fans get butthurt...
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 03:37:16 PM
Quote
if I was Klimesh's parent I would recommend that he NOT come out to start another game after throwing a complete game two days earlier.
I would have loved to hear this conversation between you and Coach Scannell or Coach Smith. ;D
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 03:51:21 PM
Honestly parents have no say. It is between the coach and the player at this point. Both are adults they will make the decisions and parents really have no business in this discussion.
Crash is right.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 04:09:07 PM
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 20, 2013, 04:07:49 PM
Foreheaven.
Let me give you some advice on board etiquette.
You can talk all you want about programs, coaches, situations, games, etc, but when you start denigrating individual players regardless of the level and situation you have crossed the line with me and probably everyone else here.
What in the hell are you talking about? Who did I denigrate and how?
And apparently now's when the Trinity fans get butthurt...
9999 - You need to play nice in the sandbox with the rest of us...Your Karma rating is dropping like a rock....
Actually it's higher than it was when I came back.
Not that I care...I'd rather be right.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F05%2Fpopcorn_yes.gif&hash=50c923cd2dcf91dbe078b37a5b5390509de44198)
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 09:26:41 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 20, 2013, 08:54:25 PM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 08:41:52 PM
Did your Mama teach you not to call others names
I guess trolling gets you a +karma around here.
Sore losers...that's all I see here. The Linfield people are the only ones not acting like a bag of dicks.
Is your only defense is for you to resort to name calling rather than just stick to talking baseball.
I watched a SoCal program get to Appleton 5 times in 4 times and lucky enough to see all 4 times. Not sure if we see another SoCal program make it the near future anytime soon.
It will be tough for any program not named Linfield to challenge what Chapman was able to do when they went on their streak of dominance. How did they fall so quickly?
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 09:26:41 PM
Is your only defense is for you to resort to name calling rather than just stick to talking baseball.
I watched a SoCal program get to Appleton 5 times in 4 times and lucky enough to see all 4 times. Not sure if we see another SoCal program make it the near future anytime soon.
Did they teach English at your school? Holy crap. I need the SoCal to English dictionary for this garble.
I'd rather you just stick to speaking your first language, whatever that is.
Quote from: playball on May 21, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
It will be tough for any program not named Linfield to challenge what Chapman was able to do when they went on their streak of dominance. How did they fall so quickly?
If not for the coaching situation I wouldn't say they had. Marietta had a rough year in 2008. It happens, especially these days when there's so much competition for players and so few at-large spots in the postseason. It's not like it used to be when only the most worthy teams got it...now if you're the best of a group of 7 schools, you're in...no matter how bad that group is.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 01:49:57 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on May 20, 2013, 09:26:41 PM
Is your only defense is for you to resort to name calling rather than just stick to talking baseball.
I watched a SoCal program get to Appleton 5 times in 4 times and lucky enough to see all 4 times. Not sure if we see another SoCal program make it the near future anytime soon.
Did they teach English at your school? Holy crap. I need the SoCal to English dictionary for this garble.
I'd rather you just stick to speaking your first language, whatever that is.
were you trying to be funny or racist?
Attn tigerfan_2001:
I've just had to remove nearly a dozen posts from this board.
I primarily blame you. Your personal attacks singling out another poster aren't necessary and aren't welcome. 4999 isn't perfect either (ahem, seriously? maybe let their childish comments go!), but you're the one going over the line on this.
Not sure what kind of board you think this is.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 01:56:36 AM
Quote from: playball on May 21, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
It will be tough for any program not named Linfield to challenge what Chapman was able to do when they went on their streak of dominance. How did they fall so quickly?
If not for the coaching situation I wouldn't say they had. Marietta had a rough year in 2008. It happens, especially these days when there's so much competition for players and so few at-large spots in the postseason. It's not like it used to be when only the most worthy teams got it...now if you're the best of a group of 7 schools, you're in...no matter how bad that group is.
I think Chapman's descent, and call me crazy on this, actually started a few years ago. And its exacerbated by Coach T's departure. They haven't had a good offense since 2010 (2011 they hit .292, 2012 they hit .286, 2013 they hit .282), and they stopped being unbelievable on the mound. I think there's less talent on their team now, something that would have roots a few years back.
Obviously, 2011 they were able to piece together a pretty incredible season and were Runners up in the World Series. But that team wasn't like the Chapman teams of old. They started off the year losing 2 of 3 to Whittier and 2 in a row to PP before going on a tear. They relied on one incredible pitcher and a handful of very good pitchers at his back, and they did everything right to get as far as they did despite an uncharacteristically weak offense with little in the name of star power. I think Coach T gets a ton of credit for that season.
2012, they still had Ruah and they lose a couple of arms. Their team ERA goes up just a tick from 2.96 to 3.05 (still pretty phenomenal), and their batting average drops a few points. More importantly, they score runs at an even slower pace and all of the sudden they go from 37-13 to 20-20. The numbers for those teams weren't that different, but I think 2011 was an example of a team that relied heavily on a few good veteran pitchers and over-performed, while in 2012 their weaknesses began to show a little more and they underperformed. 2013 was a continuation of that downward trend, ERA jumps up a whole run to 4.03, and now you don't have a legendary coach helping you squeak out the tough games. And it doesn't help to have all that background noise.
Hopefully for Chapman their core stays. All things considered that's a very young staff who, I'm sure, has plenty of room for development. Maybe they can get someone in their that can work with those pitchers and can also bring a little bit of jolt to the offense. And with the right coach, it shouldn't be difficult to recruit into a good school with such a storied tradition of excellence on the diamond. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chapman right back in the mix in a few years. Heck, they won't be losing any pitching next year (through graduation anyway) so maybe they make some noise immediately.
But they certainly aren't the Chapman of the 2000's, and I don't know if anyone in the West can ever replicate what they did. Crash, I'd like to get your thoughts on this. My analysis is based a little on observation (playing them in 2011, watching a few games in 2012) and a lot on stats and word of mouth. You've been there, so if I'm full of sh*t let me know!
I think it is CRITICAL to get a solid coach in there ASAP. Incoming recruits may be bailing on them as we type. They have pitchers coming back from injuries, and their current players. Without a coach did their players get placed in summer leagues?
They were a talented but young team this year, and should be getting some senior pitching back from injuries. (assuming they come back) You could tell this when they took BP, they could really hit the ball. I only saw three early games, but their biggest problem in those games were approach at the plate, which is what you expect in a young team. Next year those AB's will be much more disciplined.
I am not sure how you can replicate the success they had, kind of like USC at the D1 level years ago. JMO
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 01:56:36 AM
Quote from: playball on May 21, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
It will be tough for any program not named Linfield to challenge what Chapman was able to do when they went on their streak of dominance. How did they fall so quickly?
If not for the coaching situation I wouldn't say they had. Marietta had a rough year in 2008. It happens, especially these days when there's so much competition for players and so few at-large spots in the postseason. It's not like it used to be when only the most worthy teams got it...now if you're the best of a group of 7 schools, you're in...no matter how bad that group is.
The move to Pools was completed about 1999, because of the uncertainty of getting a post-season bid. There were plenty of deserving teams that were left home under the old system.
Regardless of what you say about the Pool A bids, they got there on the field. They earned the bid by the way that the conference (of as few as 7 teams, regardless of how bad they were) wanted to award the bid.
Every Pool B team this season won at least 2 games in the tourney. Two are going to Wisconsin.
Some people don't like my reference to Pool C bids as a "do-over". The parity that we see in D-3 means that the money from the March Madness contract has let us have 14 Pool C teams, including some very good ones like Kean and Marietta.
The Presidents of the 430-odd institutions have determined how they want to conduct the intercollegiate athletics. You are "ranting" in favor of a system that was deemed to need changing in the last century.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 21, 2013, 01:44:55 PM
The Presidents of the 430-odd institutions have determined how they want to conduct the intercollegiate athletics. You are "ranting" in favor of a system that was deemed to need changing in the last century.
Not really ranting at all. It's fact that the system used to be that way, which is all I said.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.
Quote from: Whatagame on May 21, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
I would think it's fairly unusual. I used to hear stories that suggested (at least) one coach would use injury waivers on freshmen that never pitched and they amounted to redshirt years. I don't want to go into much detail on that, and it doesn't really matter because the program is not really a national power and the coach is no longer at the school (and hasn't been for some time).
But considering there are no athletic scholarships, I would think that decision would be based on progress toward degree (is the player going to be doing a 5th year anyway?), cost to attend the school, and interest in a master's program the school offers.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 21, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
I would think it's fairly unusual. I used to hear stories that suggested (at least) one coach would use injury waivers on freshmen that never pitched and they amounted to redshirt years. I don't want to go into much detail on that, and it doesn't really matter because the program is not really a national power and the coach is no longer at the school (and hasn't been for some time).
But considering there are no athletic scholarships, I would think that decision would be based on progress toward degree (is the player going to be doing a 5th year anyway?), cost to attend the school, and interest in a master's program the school offers.
I know a decent amount of kids who have done this in PP athletics, through joint programs with the Claremont Graduate University- usually as a simple "plus one" commitment. They get hurt for a year, but still have that year of eligibility so they pursue an advanced degree while getting to finish out their athletic careers. Most of the time it requires a lot of planning, but it might be smoother at a school like Chapman who has it's own graduate programs and thus may be able to transition from undergrad to graduate student a little easier.
The last PP baseball player to do this was Mike Silva. Turned out to be a great move for him- he had an awesome season on that 2009 team that went 37-7 and got a degree that turned into a great job right out of school. Brian Schumaker also did this at Redlands in 2008 and hit .414 with 6 home runs. I'm sure there are other examples...
Kids could also take a lighter load and extend their coursework over to a fifth year, but as you mention there are no athletic scholarships so this is an expensive route. With coaching uncertainty, if those Chapman pitchers hadn't already committed to a 5th year I doubt they will now. Anyone know for sure?
The other complicating factor is that most DIII academic scholly's are only 4 years. But I have heard of kids getting their masters and staying. Not often but it happens.
Quote from: 108 Stitches on May 21, 2013, 04:38:18 PM
The other complicating factor is that most DIII academic scholly's are only 4 years. But I have heard of kids getting their masters and staying. Not often but it happens.
Mitch Rowan, who was a pretty darn good outfielder at Willamette missed one season due to injury, then played D1 ball at University of San Francisco this current season, as a grad student for his 4th year of eligibility. Actually getting a lot of playing time.
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 21, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 21, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
I would think it's fairly unusual. I used to hear stories that suggested (at least) one coach would use injury waivers on freshmen that never pitched and they amounted to redshirt years. I don't want to go into much detail on that, and it doesn't really matter because the program is not really a national power and the coach is no longer at the school (and hasn't been for some time).
But considering there are no athletic scholarships, I would think that decision would be based on progress toward degree (is the player going to be doing a 5th year anyway?), cost to attend the school, and interest in a master's program the school offers.
I know a decent amount of kids who have done this in PP athletics, through joint programs with the Claremont Graduate University- usually as a simple "plus one" commitment. They get hurt for a year, but still have that year of eligibility so they pursue an advanced degree while getting to finish out their athletic careers. Most of the time it requires a lot of planning, but it might be smoother at a school like Chapman who has it's own graduate programs and thus may be able to transition from undergrad to graduate student a little easier.
The last PP baseball player to do this was Mike Silva. Turned out to be a great move for him- he had an awesome season on that 2009 team that went 37-7 and got a degree that turned into a great job right out of school. Brian Schumaker also did this at Redlands in 2008 and hit .414 with 6 home runs. I'm sure there are other examples...
Kids could also take a lighter load and extend their coursework over to a fifth year, but as you mention there are no athletic scholarships so this is an expensive route. With coaching uncertainty, if those Chapman pitchers hadn't already committed to a 5th year I doubt they will now. Anyone know for sure?
Assuming a successful rehab, the 2 seniors who were injured (McGee and Osaki) both plan to come back. Osaki changed his major just before injuring himself a year ago and was planning to come back a 5th year anyway. McGee still needs some credits to graduate. The 3rd injured pitcher, Richards, just finished his freshman year. If the 12-month rehab schedule is accurate, Osaki will start throwing off a mound during the Fall and McGee/Richards will do so perhaps in December barring any setbacks. You never how they are going to throw or if they will bounce back. Dr. Yocum said that both he and Andrews show a success rate of about 85% in which those who come back tend to throw as well as they did (and even harder in some cases - not because of the surgery but because of the incredible arm/core/strength rehab that they go through). All 3 were clocked at 90+ before their respective injuries.
Quote from: Colorado on May 22, 2013, 09:58:37 AM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 21, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 21, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
I would think it's fairly unusual. I used to hear stories that suggested (at least) one coach would use injury waivers on freshmen that never pitched and they amounted to redshirt years. I don't want to go into much detail on that, and it doesn't really matter because the program is not really a national power and the coach is no longer at the school (and hasn't been for some time).
But considering there are no athletic scholarships, I would think that decision would be based on progress toward degree (is the player going to be doing a 5th year anyway?), cost to attend the school, and interest in a master's program the school offers.
I know a decent amount of kids who have done this in PP athletics, through joint programs with the Claremont Graduate University- usually as a simple "plus one" commitment. They get hurt for a year, but still have that year of eligibility so they pursue an advanced degree while getting to finish out their athletic careers. Most of the time it requires a lot of planning, but it might be smoother at a school like Chapman who has it's own graduate programs and thus may be able to transition from undergrad to graduate student a little easier.
The last PP baseball player to do this was Mike Silva. Turned out to be a great move for him- he had an awesome season on that 2009 team that went 37-7 and got a degree that turned into a great job right out of school. Brian Schumaker also did this at Redlands in 2008 and hit .414 with 6 home runs. I'm sure there are other examples...
Kids could also take a lighter load and extend their coursework over to a fifth year, but as you mention there are no athletic scholarships so this is an expensive route. With coaching uncertainty, if those Chapman pitchers hadn't already committed to a 5th year I doubt they will now. Anyone know for sure?
Assuming a successful rehab, the 2 seniors who were injured (McGee and Osaki) both plan to come back. Osaki changed his major just before injuring himself a year ago and was planning to come back a 5th year anyway. McGee still needs some credits to graduate. The 3rd injured pitcher, Richards, just finished his freshman year. If the 12-month rehab schedule is accurate, Osaki will start throwing off a mound during the Fall and McGee/Richards will do so perhaps in December barring any setbacks. You never how they are going to throw or if they will bounce back. Dr. Yocum said that both he and Andrews show a success rate of about 85% in which those who come back tend to throw as well as they did (and even harder in some cases - not because of the surgery but because of the incredible arm/core/strength rehab that they go through). All 3 were clocked at 90+ before their respective injuries.
Assuming Chapman gets a great coach, players return from 2013 rostter back, pitchers return healthy and few or no players transfer out and THAT is a lot of IF's, Chapman could return to a Regional in 2014 BUT that is lots of if's to be answered.
Quote from: Colorado on May 22, 2013, 09:58:37 AM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 21, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 21, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
I would think it's fairly unusual. I used to hear stories that suggested (at least) one coach would use injury waivers on freshmen that never pitched and they amounted to redshirt years. I don't want to go into much detail on that, and it doesn't really matter because the program is not really a national power and the coach is no longer at the school (and hasn't been for some time).
But considering there are no athletic scholarships, I would think that decision would be based on progress toward degree (is the player going to be doing a 5th year anyway?), cost to attend the school, and interest in a master's program the school offers.
I know a decent amount of kids who have done this in PP athletics, through joint programs with the Claremont Graduate University- usually as a simple "plus one" commitment. They get hurt for a year, but still have that year of eligibility so they pursue an advanced degree while getting to finish out their athletic careers. Most of the time it requires a lot of planning, but it might be smoother at a school like Chapman who has it's own graduate programs and thus may be able to transition from undergrad to graduate student a little easier.
The last PP baseball player to do this was Mike Silva. Turned out to be a great move for him- he had an awesome season on that 2009 team that went 37-7 and got a degree that turned into a great job right out of school. Brian Schumaker also did this at Redlands in 2008 and hit .414 with 6 home runs. I'm sure there are other examples...
Kids could also take a lighter load and extend their coursework over to a fifth year, but as you mention there are no athletic scholarships so this is an expensive route. With coaching uncertainty, if those Chapman pitchers hadn't already committed to a 5th year I doubt they will now. Anyone know for sure?
Assuming a successful rehab, the 2 seniors who were injured (McGee and Osaki) both plan to come back. Osaki changed his major just before injuring himself a year ago and was planning to come back a 5th year anyway. McGee still needs some credits to graduate. The 3rd injured pitcher, Richards, just finished his freshman year. If the 12-month rehab schedule is accurate, Osaki will start throwing off a mound during the Fall and McGee/Richards will do so perhaps in December barring any setbacks. You never how they are going to throw or if they will bounce back. Dr. Yocum said that both he and Andrews show a success rate of about 85% in which those who come back tend to throw as well as they did (and even harder in some cases - not because of the surgery but because of the incredible arm/core/strength rehab that they go through). All 3 were clocked at 90+ before their respective injuries.
As a Tommy John surgery alum (patient? Frankenstien? ;D ), there is a lot that someone has to do for rehab. A lot of shoulder, abs, forearm, and grip strength rehab to all take pressure of the elbow. The throwing programs vary by who does your surgery and who they trust with the rehab program. My program consisted of slowly working back into throwing at about 6 months, with only fastball grips. From there duration and intensity picked up until curveballs and splits were allowed. The biggest thing for me when I talk to other pitchers when they ask what to expect about T.J. is to not always be afraid. I'm sure at some point the players named above will be doing rehab and feel a pop or something that doesn't feel quite right and it will scare the he** out of them. All normal. Also, that 12 month throwing schedule is until they get back to 100%. The procedure that I had was a new variation (probably not so new anymore) called Docking and its done by Dr. David Altchek. Full recovery is 9 months. Hope this info helps
I hope all goes well for these guys as being a D3 pitcher is hard enough without the surgery!
Adding Osaki and McGee to everyone they have coming back (literally, no seniors) I think would make for a very formidable pitching staff. They might have been the youngest staff in the country this year.
This summer is going to be a test of how much Chapman's players want to be good again, to identify on their own what they need to improve on and how to do it.
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 11:38:46 AM
Adding Osaki and McGee to everyone they have coming back (literally, no seniors) I think would make for a very formidable pitching staff. They might have been the youngest staff in the country this year.
This summer is going to be a test of how much Chapman's players want to be good again, to identify on their own what they need to improve on and how to do it.
Yes. They may need some inspiration/encouragement from the alums during this time of testing for Chapman baseball.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 22, 2013, 11:43:51 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 22, 2013, 11:38:46 AM
Adding Osaki and McGee to everyone they have coming back (literally, no seniors) I think would make for a very formidable pitching staff. They might have been the youngest staff in the country this year.
This summer is going to be a test of how much Chapman's players want to be good again, to identify on their own what they need to improve on and how to do it.
Yes. They may need some inspiration/encouragement from the alums during this time of testing for Chapman baseball.
And each other, which fortunately a lot of them probably live relatively near each other. I really hope they do well and the pitchers come back healthy and they're a 30-win ballclub again and we see how good the SCIAC can be. I felt like with them being down this year it was hard to tell what was what out there.
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 21, 2013, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 01:56:36 AM
Quote from: playball on May 21, 2013, 12:59:18 AM
It will be tough for any program not named Linfield to challenge what Chapman was able to do when they went on their streak of dominance. How did they fall so quickly?
If not for the coaching situation I wouldn't say they had. Marietta had a rough year in 2008. It happens, especially these days when there's so much competition for players and so few at-large spots in the postseason. It's not like it used to be when only the most worthy teams got it...now if you're the best of a group of 7 schools, you're in...no matter how bad that group is.
The foregoing reasons are pretty accurate
I think Chapman's descent, and call me crazy on this, actually started a few years ago. And its exacerbated by Coach T's departure. They haven't had a good offense since 2010 (2011 they hit .292, 2012 they hit .286, 2013 they hit .282), and they stopped being unbelievable on the mound. I think there's less talent on their team now, something that would have roots a few years back.
Obviously, 2011 they were able to piece together a pretty incredible season and were Runners up in the World Series. But that team wasn't like the Chapman teams of old. They started off the year losing 2 of 3 to Whittier and 2 in a row to PP before going on a tear. They relied on one incredible pitcher and a handful of very good pitchers at his back, and they did everything right to get as far as they did despite an uncharacteristically weak offense with little in the name of star power. I think Coach T gets a ton of credit for that season.
2012, they still had Ruah and they lose a couple of arms. Their team ERA goes up just a tick from 2.96 to 3.05 (still pretty phenomenal), and their batting average drops a few points. More importantly, they score runs at an even slower pace and all of the sudden they go from 37-13 to 20-20. The numbers for those teams weren't that different, but I think 2011 was an example of a team that relied heavily on a few good veteran pitchers and over-performed, while in 2012 their weaknesses began to show a little more and they underperformed. 2013 was a continuation of that downward trend, ERA jumps up a whole run to 4.03, and now you don't have a legendary coach helping you squeak out the tough games. And it doesn't help to have all that background noise.
Hopefully for Chapman their core stays. All things considered that's a very young staff who, I'm sure, has plenty of room for development. Maybe they can get someone in their that can work with those pitchers and can also bring a little bit of jolt to the offense. And with the right coach, it shouldn't be difficult to recruit into a good school with such a storied tradition of excellence on the diamond. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chapman right back in the mix in a few years. Heck, they won't be losing any pitching next year (through graduation anyway) so maybe they make some noise immediately. But they certainly aren't the Chapman of the 2000's, and I don't know if anyone in the West can ever replicate what they did.
Crash, I'd like to get your thoughts on this. My analysis is based a little on observation (playing them in 2011, watching a few games in 2012) and a lot on stats and word of mouth. You've been there, so if I'm full of sh*t let me know!
I wouldn't call you crazy. Your take is fairly accurate. The things that I would add or differ on is that the 2011 line up was pretty solid offensively but was, like many teams at the time, greatly affected by the rule changes on bats. The only 2 things that I would add is that the team wasn't as good defensively as before and didn't hit with much power -- a drop that could not be entirely explained away by the bat changes.
For 2012, they had the same 4-5 pitchers coming back who had been the pitching core of the staff since they were freshmen. Most of the line up was coming back but like you said, the hitting was weak and there was no power. Moreover, the bullpen struggled all year and the defense was very bad (Rauh was up 2-0 into the 9th in 1 game but Chapman lost in extra innings after the tying runs scored on some errors and 2 consecutive passed balls). T always said that every time come graduation, he would wonder who would step up the next year to replace the stars who had graduated; he didn't know who but he was always sure that someone would step up. I think he was a little perplexed when no one stepped up that year. He was enormously patient with some guys who had bad years. After the half way point (maybe the last 15-18 games), with a play-off spot going down the drain, he blew up the line-up to get better defensively, mostly ignored the bullpen if he could and rode his starting pitchers as long as they could go.
For 2013, offensively and defensively, they were markedly better than the year before but the overall pitching just wasn't there. Prospectively, I think that they can do some damage next year: The line-up has a nice core of hitters. With fingers crossed, the pitching staff has Riddle, Watson, the 3 injured guys and a couple others. I haven't heard about any impact recruits coming in or how the T debacle affected recruiting but some good news is that Edwards, the pitching coach, is coming back either as the HC or as the PC again (at least that's the early report).
Quote from: playball on May 22, 2013, 11:11:46 AM
Quote from: Colorado on May 22, 2013, 09:58:37 AM
Quote from: Teddy_Ballgame on May 21, 2013, 03:35:06 PM
Quote from: forheavendial4999 on May 21, 2013, 02:15:07 PM
Quote from: Whatagame on May 21, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
The three Chapman pitchers who were hurt this season were all Juniors in 2012 (thus Seniors this year) Would they all be attending school a 5th year to play? That's somewhat of a rarity at the D3 level it seems?
I would think it's fairly unusual. I used to hear stories that suggested (at least) one coach would use injury waivers on freshmen that never pitched and they amounted to redshirt years. I don't want to go into much detail on that, and it doesn't really matter because the program is not really a national power and the coach is no longer at the school (and hasn't been for some time).
But considering there are no athletic scholarships, I would think that decision would be based on progress toward degree (is the player going to be doing a 5th year anyway?), cost to attend the school, and interest in a master's program the school offers.
I know a decent amount of kids who have done this in PP athletics, through joint programs with the Claremont Graduate University- usually as a simple "plus one" commitment. They get hurt for a year, but still have that year of eligibility so they pursue an advanced degree while getting to finish out their athletic careers. Most of the time it requires a lot of planning, but it might be smoother at a school like Chapman who has it's own graduate programs and thus may be able to transition from undergrad to graduate student a little easier.
The last PP baseball player to do this was Mike Silva. Turned out to be a great move for him- he had an awesome season on that 2009 team that went 37-7 and got a degree that turned into a great job right out of school. Brian Schumaker also did this at Redlands in 2008 and hit .414 with 6 home runs. I'm sure there are other examples...
Kids could also take a lighter load and extend their coursework over to a fifth year, but as you mention there are no athletic scholarships so this is an expensive route. With coaching uncertainty, if those Chapman pitchers hadn't already committed to a 5th year I doubt they will now. Anyone know for sure?
Assuming a successful rehab, the 2 seniors who were injured (McGee and Osaki) both plan to come back. Osaki changed his major just before injuring himself a year ago and was planning to come back a 5th year anyway. McGee still needs some credits to graduate. The 3rd injured pitcher, Richards, just finished his freshman year. If the 12-month rehab schedule is accurate, Osaki will start throwing off a mound during the Fall and McGee/Richards will do so perhaps in December barring any setbacks. You never how they are going to throw or if they will bounce back. Dr. Yocum said that both he and Andrews show a success rate of about 85% in which those who come back tend to throw as well as they did (and even harder in some cases - not because of the surgery but because of the incredible arm/core/strength rehab that they go through). All 3 were clocked at 90+ before their respective injuries.
As a Tommy John surgery alum (patient? Frankenstien? ;D ), there is a lot that someone has to do for rehab. A lot of shoulder, abs, forearm, and grip strength rehab to all take pressure of the elbow. The throwing programs vary by who does your surgery and who they trust with the rehab program. My program consisted of slowly working back into throwing at about 6 months, with only fastball grips. From there duration and intensity picked up until curveballs and splits were allowed. The biggest thing for me when I talk to other pitchers when they ask what to expect about T.J. is to not always be afraid. I'm sure at some point the players named above will be doing rehab and feel a pop or something that doesn't feel quite right and it will scare the he** out of them. All normal. Also, that 12 month throwing schedule is until they get back to 100%. The procedure that I had was a new variation (probably not so new anymore) called Docking and its done by Dr. David Altchek. Full recovery is 9 months. Hope this info helps
I hope all goes well for these guys as being a D3 pitcher is hard enough without the surgery!
"Docking"? What is that?
Instead of completely cutting through the bicep, a hole is created and the new ligament (From either a wrist or hamstring) is stitched through. Also, only one hole is drilled into the bone instead of the regular 3 for TJ. These changes have shown a marked difference in return rates and being able to compete at the same or higher levels.
Quote from: playball on May 23, 2013, 09:52:52 AM
Instead of completely cutting through the bicep, a hole is created and the new ligament (From either a wrist or hamstring) is stitched through. Also, only one hole is drilled into the bone instead of the regular 3 for TJ. These changes have shown a marked difference in return rates and being able to compete at the same or higher levels.
thanks. Didn't know that.
Quote from: playball on May 23, 2013, 09:52:52 AM
Instead of completely cutting through the bicep, a hole is created and the new ligament (From either a wrist or hamstring) is stitched through. Also, only one hole is drilled into the bone instead of the regular 3 for TJ. These changes have shown a marked difference in return rates and being able to compete at the same or higher levels.
http://www.newson6.com/story/21755068/docking-technique-to-repair-torn-elbow-ligament-yields-favorable-results-in-adolescent-baseball-players
I trust Brosius and Doctor Dad on this one.
Now, on to Ithaca....
Haddeland picking up where he left off last week, has given up one hit through four as Linfield leads Ithaca 5-0.
And he's only a sophomore, right?
This is correct. Along with their #2 starter.
Congratulations Linfield.