Seriously, Cortland ruins everything. Thanks for nothing, drunk students
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/this_years_cortaca_game_might_have_been_the_last.html
"Bitterbaum said he had talked to the president of Ithaca College and both are considering the idea of canceling the game."
Well that escalated quickly!
I'd keep the game but only allot 1000 tickets to each school, seriously how many people do each teams draw to games outside Cortaca?
Or play it at the Dome up the road that can handle all the foot and vehicle traffic.
Quote from: Upstate on November 18, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Well that escalated quickly!
I'd keep the game but only allot 1000 tickets to each school, seriously how many people do each teams draw to games outside Cortaca?
Or play it at the Dome up the road that can handle all the foot and vehicle traffic.
The game itself is not the issue. Pep has not heard a report of problems at the game held in Ithaca. The problems were in Cortland where the 1,000 partiers at some eight student-occupied houses along Clayton Avenue spilled out onto the streets. Pep actually knew of at least two AU students who were invited by friends to "Cortaca" but who did not attend the game in Ithaca, but watched it in Cortland. Of 80 persons arrested in Cortland, only 19 were Cortland students...
What has happened is Cortaca has turned into a "party day" and friends from other colleges are invited to the big bash, much as Alfred University and Alfred State College students are joined by their friends from other colleges for Hot Dog Day, which also drew much criticism by local residents back in late April. As in Cortland, the majority of those arrested in Alfred during Hot Dog Day festivities were neither AU or ASC students, according to the local police chief.
It's actually a discredit to the fine football teams at Ithaca and Cortland because the public drunkenness and debauchery is a distraction from the game itself.
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 18, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Well that escalated quickly!
I'd keep the game but only allot 1000 tickets to each school, seriously how many people do each teams draw to games outside Cortaca?
Or play it at the Dome up the road that can handle all the foot and vehicle traffic.
The game itself is not the issue. Pep has not heard a report of problems at the game held in Ithaca. The problems were in Cortland where the 1,000 partiers at some eight student-occupied houses along Clayton Avenue spilled out onto the streets. Pep actually knew of at least two AU students who were invited by friends to "Cortaca" but who did not attend the game in Ithaca, but watched it in Cortland. Of 80 persons arrested in Cortland, only 19 were Cortland students...
What has happened is Cortaca has turned into a "party day" and friends from other colleges are invited to the big bash, much as Alfred University and Alfred State College students are joined by their friends from other colleges for Hot Dog Day, which also drew much criticism by local residents back in late April. As in Cortland, the majority of those arrested in Alfred during Hot Dog Day festivities were neither AU or ASC students, according to the local police chief.
It's actually a discredit to the fine football teams at Ithaca and Cortland because the public drunkenness and debauchery is a distraction from the game itself.
Agreed. This is a problem at all levels. I'm sure some people would tell me to loosen my corset and have a drink, but I think we all know there's a difference between "enjoying a few brews at the tailgate to heighten enjoyment of the game" versus "using a game as an excuse to get drunk without any regard for the athletic contest" and, as you said, such shenanigans are at best unnecessary and at worst a distraction from the actual event.
Quote from: ExTartanPlayer on November 18, 2013, 06:10:38 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 18, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Well that escalated quickly!
I'd keep the game but only allot 1000 tickets to each school, seriously how many people do each teams draw to games outside Cortaca?
Or play it at the Dome up the road that can handle all the foot and vehicle traffic.
The game itself is not the issue. Pep has not heard a report of problems at the game held in Ithaca. The problems were in Cortland where the 1,000 partiers at some eight student-occupied houses along Clayton Avenue spilled out onto the streets. Pep actually knew of at least two AU students who were invited by friends to "Cortaca" but who did not attend the game in Ithaca, but watched it in Cortland. Of 80 persons arrested in Cortland, only 19 were Cortland students...
What has happened is Cortaca has turned into a "party day" and friends from other colleges are invited to the big bash, much as Alfred University and Alfred State College students are joined by their friends from other colleges for Hot Dog Day, which also drew much criticism by local residents back in late April. As in Cortland, the majority of those arrested in Alfred during Hot Dog Day festivities were neither AU or ASC students, according to the local police chief.
It's actually a discredit to the fine football teams at Ithaca and Cortland because the public drunkenness and debauchery is a distraction from the game itself.
Agreed. This is a problem at all levels. I'm sure some people would tell me to loosen my corset and have a drink, but I think we all know there's a difference between "enjoying a few brews at the tailgate to heighten enjoyment of the game" versus "using a game as an excuse to get drunk without any regard for the athletic contest" and, as you said, such shenanigans are at best unnecessary and at worst a distraction from the actual event.
Administrators at both colleges have engaged in about 15 years of collective denial, using the "Biggest Little Game in the Country" misnomer to pretend the hype was about football and sports, and not about drinking
The question becomes this: is social media making us more aware of these antics than the pre-Twitter, Facebook, Vine and Instagram days, or is it really getting worse and worse?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/college-students-from-suny-cortland-partied-so-hard-this-wee
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 18, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
The question becomes this: is social media making us more aware of these antics than the pre-Twitter, Facebook, Vine and Instagram days, or is it really getting worse and worse?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/college-students-from-suny-cortland-partied-so-hard-this-wee
As someone who lives in Ithaca, and has followed it first hand for a long time, this has never happened on this scale
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 06:28:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 18, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
The question becomes this: is social media making us more aware of these antics than the pre-Twitter, Facebook, Vine and Instagram days, or is it really getting worse and worse?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/college-students-from-suny-cortland-partied-so-hard-this-wee
As someone who lives in Ithaca, and has followed it first hand for a long time, this has never happened on this scale
Then here's the most bizarre takeaway I have from this episode... The game was AT ITHACA. So, this wasn't a spontaneous, "Let's go back up campus and wreak havoc," reaction. I know the schools are nearby, having announced at both, but with the game ending at around 3pm and daylight ending around 5:30pm, the away team had this problem? How does that happen, and so quickly? I've been covering the Oldest College Football Rivalry in New York for 19 seasons (Dutchman Shoes), and I couldn't fathom even the home team, if they won, reacting even close to this that quickly. I know Cortland has a larger enrollment, but still -- this is honestly tough to fathom at all. I'd say give it one more chance next year, and be prepared to shelve the game if it leads to anything close to this again. What happens on the campus itself you can sort of plan for and accept as a certain normal reaction. This wasn't.
I remember them having issues dating back to my first year at IC about this game (11 years now). You would always hear these token efforts about responsibility and so on, but I never got the sense they actually meant it: there was nobody on campus who would actively take on the culture because then they could kill their guaranteed 12,000 ticket cow. That reminds me: another sign of how much they didn't seem to care- they were cramming that many people in to a stadium that had a listed capacity of half that and was clearly straining with all the additional bodies. I went to Cortaca exactly once as a student in a non-radio sports capacity, and I can't imagine going back today to deal with the crowd.
I would be sad if this was the end if only because I know there are people in both the IC and Cortland community who still hold the rivalry of these football teams close to their heart. I feel for them... but for the bloated monster the whole weekend has become, I wouldn't miss it at all.
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 18, 2013, 06:38:12 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 06:28:22 PM
Quote from: Frank Rossi on November 18, 2013, 06:25:23 PM
The question becomes this: is social media making us more aware of these antics than the pre-Twitter, Facebook, Vine and Instagram days, or is it really getting worse and worse?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/college-students-from-suny-cortland-partied-so-hard-this-wee
As someone who lives in Ithaca, and has followed it first hand for a long time, this has never happened on this scale
Then here's the most bizarre takeaway I have from this episode... The game was AT ITHACA. So, this wasn't a spontaneous, "Let's go back up campus and wreak havoc," reaction. I know the schools are nearby, having announced at both, but with the game ending at around 3pm and daylight ending around 5:30pm, the away team had this problem? How does that happen, and so quickly? I've been covering the Oldest College Football Rivalry in New York for 19 seasons (Dutchman Shoes), and I couldn't fathom even the home team, if they won, reacting even close to this that quickly. I know Cortland has a larger enrollment, but still -- this is honestly tough to fathom at all. I'd say give it one more chance next year, and be prepared to shelve the game if it leads to anything close to this again. What happens on the campus itself you can sort of plan for and accept as a certain normal reaction. This wasn't.
Does this game bring any money to either school or town? I mean, if the cost for safety is more than either place can handle, you don't have many options left. I mean, look at this!!!
http://nyc.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/suny-cortland-wins-its-4th-straight-cortaca-jug-full-blown-riots-ensue/
Looked like one hell of a party.
Quote from: BomberJeff on November 18, 2013, 06:53:23 PM
I remember them having issues dating back to my first year at IC about this game (11 years now). You would always hear these token efforts about responsibility and so on, but I never got the sense they actually meant it: there was nobody on campus who would actively take on the culture because then they could kill their guaranteed 12,000 ticket cow. That reminds me: another sign of how much they didn't seem to care- they were cramming that many people in to a stadium that had a listed capacity of half that and was clearly straining with all the additional bodies. I went to Cortaca exactly once as a student in a non-radio sports capacity, and I can't imagine going back today to deal with the crowd.
I would be sad if this was the end if only because I know there are people in both the IC and Cortland community who still hold the rivalry of these football teams close to their heart. I feel for them... but for the bloated monster the whole weekend has become, I wouldn't miss it at all.
Here's all you need to know about the way people view Cortaca, as summed up in two comments by a Cortland student on an article in the post-standard:
"Second off, Cortland lives and dies with SUNY Cortland, without the school and us students, there is no Cortland. SUNY Cortland owns the SUNY system...no one really care what you and the "residents" of Cortland think. It wont end, the partying wont end, and as SUNY Cortland students, we will continue to run Cortland, NY""Guy yes running and swinging an axe (I know the kid), 1 cop car stolen, numerous other cars flipped,cars smashed into houses, and numerous other events during one legendary night"How can you control that? How can you fix that? No amount of crowd control, public service announcements, letters in the school paper, service projects, or anything else can fix an event when these types of people are involved.
You have a student who seems to view "running" the town the main benefit of being a Cortland student. Who seems to think that destroying property, and putting people's safety in danger is "legendary." And that everything that transpired is part of Cortaca. These are people who simply do not care about anyone or anything but their own gratification, and whose priorities are so out of whack, it's hard to imagine them being a productive member of society.
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 10:10:23 PM
Quote from: BomberJeff on November 18, 2013, 06:53:23 PM
I remember them having issues dating back to my first year at IC about this game (11 years now). You would always hear these token efforts about responsibility and so on, but I never got the sense they actually meant it: there was nobody on campus who would actively take on the culture because then they could kill their guaranteed 12,000 ticket cow. That reminds me: another sign of how much they didn't seem to care- they were cramming that many people in to a stadium that had a listed capacity of half that and was clearly straining with all the additional bodies. I went to Cortaca exactly once as a student in a non-radio sports capacity, and I can't imagine going back today to deal with the crowd.
I would be sad if this was the end if only because I know there are people in both the IC and Cortland community who still hold the rivalry of these football teams close to their heart. I feel for them... but for the bloated monster the whole weekend has become, I wouldn't miss it at all.
Here's all you need to know about the way people view Cortaca, as summed up in two comments by a Cortland student on an article in the post-standard:
"Second off, Cortland lives and dies with SUNY Cortland, without the school and us students, there is no Cortland. SUNY Cortland owns the SUNY system...no one really care what you and the "residents" of Cortland think. It wont end, the partying wont end, and as SUNY Cortland students, we will continue to run Cortland, NY"
"Guy yes running and swinging an axe (I know the kid), 1 cop car stolen, numerous other cars flipped,cars smashed into houses, and numerous other events during one legendary night"
How can you control that? How can you fix that? No amount of crowd control, public service announcements, letters in the school paper, service projects, or anything else can fix an event when these types of people are involved.
You have a student who seems to view "running" the town the main benefit of being a Cortland student. Who seems to think that destroying property, and putting people's safety in danger is "legendary." And that everything that transpired is part of Cortaca. These are people who simply do not care about anyone or anything but their own gratification, and whose priorities are so out of whack, it's hard to imagine them being a productive member of society.
It might take some money, but it can be controlled.
1. Enforce any and all alcohol violations, before, during and after the game. Make it clear to students that they will be expelled if they are charged with any criminal act on those days.
2. Close the bars in Cortland that day, or at least keep them closed until 1 pm, and force them to comply with all laws or face stiff penalties.
3. Do what cities like Ithaca and Boston has done the last 10 years and strictly enforce off campus criminal acts and follow up with school sanctions.
4. Have a better riot/ celebration plan on the law enforcement end.
5. Pressure the school to get more housing, or at least pressure them with tax/pilot programs to cover local expenses like police and fire. If Cortland wants to spend tens of millions on sports programs, they better pick up the tab on the other end as well (state police)
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 18, 2013, 10:28:28 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 10:10:23 PM
Quote from: BomberJeff on November 18, 2013, 06:53:23 PM
I remember them having issues dating back to my first year at IC about this game (11 years now). You would always hear these token efforts about responsibility and so on, but I never got the sense they actually meant it: there was nobody on campus who would actively take on the culture because then they could kill their guaranteed 12,000 ticket cow. That reminds me: another sign of how much they didn't seem to care- they were cramming that many people in to a stadium that had a listed capacity of half that and was clearly straining with all the additional bodies. I went to Cortaca exactly once as a student in a non-radio sports capacity, and I can't imagine going back today to deal with the crowd.
I would be sad if this was the end if only because I know there are people in both the IC and Cortland community who still hold the rivalry of these football teams close to their heart. I feel for them... but for the bloated monster the whole weekend has become, I wouldn't miss it at all.
Here's all you need to know about the way people view Cortaca, as summed up in two comments by a Cortland student on an article in the post-standard:
"Second off, Cortland lives and dies with SUNY Cortland, without the school and us students, there is no Cortland. SUNY Cortland owns the SUNY system...no one really care what you and the "residents" of Cortland think. It wont end, the partying wont end, and as SUNY Cortland students, we will continue to run Cortland, NY"
"Guy yes running and swinging an axe (I know the kid), 1 cop car stolen, numerous other cars flipped,cars smashed into houses, and numerous other events during one legendary night"
How can you control that? How can you fix that? No amount of crowd control, public service announcements, letters in the school paper, service projects, or anything else can fix an event when these types of people are involved.
You have a student who seems to view "running" the town the main benefit of being a Cortland student. Who seems to think that destroying property, and putting people's safety in danger is "legendary." And that everything that transpired is part of Cortaca. These are people who simply do not care about anyone or anything but their own gratification, and whose priorities are so out of whack, it's hard to imagine them being a productive member of society.
It might take some money, but it can be controlled.
1. Enforce any and all alcohol violations, before, during and after the game. Make it clear to students that they will be expelled if they are charged with any criminal act on those days.
2. Close the bars in Cortland that day, or at least keep them closed until 1 pm, and force them to comply with all laws or face stiff penalties.
3. Do what cities like Ithaca and Boston has done the last 10 years and strictly enforce off campus criminal acts and follow up with school sanctions.
4. Have a better riot/ celebration plan on the law enforcement end.
5. Pressure the school to get more housing, or at least pressure them with tax/pilot programs to cover local expenses like police and fire. If Cortland wants to spend tens of millions on sports programs, they better pick up the tab on the other end as well (state police)
Don't know enough to comment on your specifics, but I would hope they would try things to give it at least one more chance.
I DO definitely agree with your #1 point. (I wonder if the majority of rioters were even old enough to legally drink at all?)
I feel I have to respond to this as one of the very few people I know of on these boards that lives in Cortland. On top of that I work in Ithaca and see the game from that end. My wife went to IC and two sisters and my father went to C-State.
As a resident of the town but also a big fan of D3 football, and Cortaca (honestly the only townie that likes it) this is the first time I actually sympathize with those suggesting to end the game. I attended a birthday party near downtown on Saturday, and it was way beyond what I have seen in years past. I have been around town for at least 20 Cortaca games so I have some expertise on this. I used to go out for Cortaca when I was younger, and it was always rowdy and on the edge. But what I saw Saturday, and Sunday morning were totally unacceptable.
Please don't think this is just some old guy complaining about drunk college kids. I am way tolerant of college kids having fun, and I almost always argue that Cortaca is net positive for the town economically.
But here is the thing. Clayton ave is a city street. It isn't just college housing. I know a couple in their 70s who live on the street. They were trapped in their house while the craziness from the game went on all day (Clayton Abe was closed around 11am due to the crowds and not reopened until around 8:30 Sunday. I have friends who are local cops who we're refusing to get out of their patrol cars because it was unsafe for them to just be outside. Prospect Terrace was swamped and only wasn't closed because the cops from out of the area that were called in needed it as an access point to Clayton Ave.
And what makes this issue so difficult to control is that it isn't any one groups fault. According to the Cortland Standard their were about 8,000 people on the streets partying, but Cortland only has an enrollment of 6,500. Visitors from other schools and even townies get involved in the partying as well. So it is not all on the school that a huge group parties at off campus housing. And the Cortland police force is only so big, so they have to call in outside forces to handle crowds like that. And as much as it kills me to say it, there is only one way to ensure that what Cortland saw on Saturday is to stop the game. Otherwise there is always going to be some problems. I still want to see the game continue, but as is, it is way too out of control.
Also, I have to say this about the quote from the college kid about owning the city. SUNY and the town have a mutually beneficial relationship. While the Cortland economy is certainly reliant on the college for a large chunk of the pie, SUNY is not the largest employer in the area (that would be Cornell), and without a Town to support the school the students would not have a school to go to. It is comments like that one that lead people to say how stupid Cortland students are around this time of year in these boards. Come on man.
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 05:09:38 PM
Seriously, Cortland ruins everything. Thanks for nothing, drunk students
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/this_years_cortaca_game_might_have_been_the_last.html
"Bitterbaum said he had talked to the president of Ithaca College and both are considering the idea of canceling the game."
I should also mention that I went back to Ithaca for work on Monday and you would not even know the game had happened. It never gets out of hand in Ithaca the way it does in Cortland.
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 08:05:19 AM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 18, 2013, 05:09:38 PM
Seriously, Cortland ruins everything. Thanks for nothing, drunk students
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2013/11/this_years_cortaca_game_might_have_been_the_last.html
"Bitterbaum said he had talked to the president of Ithaca College and both are considering the idea of canceling the game."
I should also mention that I went back to Ithaca for work on Monday and you would not even know the game had happened. It never gets out of hand in Ithaca the way it does in Cortland.
The college mob mentality that happened in Cortland is kind of a social phenomenon that is very similar to what has happened in Boston in recent years when the pro sports teams here have won state championships.
There have been several deaths including a Northeastern student who was shot in the eye by the Boston police with a beanbag, another student run over by a driver, and another person who had a heart attack while resisting arrest. After the Boston police and City were sued for some of these actions, the new line of defense was to totally prevent students/persons from congregating at all after the events. Like Cortland, it isn't always students who get arrested, it are friends of students, or other rif-raf coming in from the burbs to cause havoc.
And it wasn't just Boston which had issues. Umass Amherst (about 2 hours from Boston) had huge problems with riots and disorderly conduct.
I have attended Cortaca almost every year since the late 1970s when I was a townie junior high school student growing up in Cortland. Out of high school I was accepted into Ithaca's Park School, and also Syracuse University. I chose the latter, which I regret to this day. Ironically had I accepted the Park School invitation, I would have likely been a Bombers fan. I never fit into S.U. and transferred back home to Cortland after 1 year, just in time to see the two most memorable Cortaca games I can remember - the 1988 battle for the Jug which Cortland won, and the playoff game which Ithaca won en route to the national championship.
Unfortunately the greatness of those two games started the wheels in motion for what Cortaca has since become. From 1989-on, it has been a party instead of a game. In 1988 Cortland fans stormed the field in celebration. I saw people legitimately crying, they were so happy. To think what this series has become, and how the students have absolutely ruined the atmosphere, saddens me more than I can hope to express.
I rarely return to my hometown these days. It's not just my having moved on, it's the social problems which are tearing the city apart and making it a dangerous place to live. Then there is the tenuous relationship between SUNY and the City, which has existed since I was a young child. As a graduate of SUNY and someone who grew up part of the Cortland community, I always feel caught in the crossfire. It's not a relationship I wish to be part of, so I visit neither.
When I drive through Cortland in early November, usually on my way to or from a Cortland NJAC game, storefronts are plastered with signs from greedy townie businesses encouraging students to "Get Your Cortaca Supplies Here". How anyone associated with these businesses can pretend they didn't exacerbate this fiasco is beyond reason. From the bars which open at 8 am in the name of Cortaca, to the townee liquor stores which have their best sales of the year, there is plenty of blame to go around in the City as well as at SUNY.
Maybe it is time for the series to end. It seems unthinkable to even consider it. I have had the opportunity to meet and speak with Coach Welch in the past, and Coach MacNeill on many occasions. I knew Coach Murray when he was in Cortland, and meeting Coach Butterfield was honestly one of my greatest thrills when I was covering Red Dragon football for the college radio station. All exuded Class. Both produce programs and student athletes which their respective schools can take pride in. When I take my son Joe to Cortaca, I proudly tell him of memories of past games and the players who have made it so memorable - Garreth Grayson, Jeff Wittman, Mike Scott, Adam Haas, Dan Pitcher, and on-and-on. When Wittman was receiving his honors at half-time, I was almost breathless talking about the things I saw him do on the field two decades ago. Now I can add John Babin to that list. To see their legacy in this rivalry come to an end is heartbreaking.
Ironically I mentioned to several people at Saturday's game how well-behaved the crowds were. I saw far fewer explicit t-shirts and signs than in years past. There were fewer chants in poor taste. The game was the story for the first time in several years. Perhaps because the riff-raff stayed in Cortland to prepare its assault on the community. If this societal element which ruins SUNY is allowed to destroy perhaps the greatest small college football rivalry in history, then what does it say about how our society solves its problems? Do we truly make lasting change, or do we produce sound bites and public proclamations which garner votes of confidence from the less educated majority?
At first I assumed that the Cortaca brouhaha was just middle-aged administrators worried about insurance. Then I followed a link and I couldn't believe the decadence and open obscenity. We were pretty wacky-wacky back in the day, but I've never seen anything like those signs or public sex in a booth at a bar. I've seen some sick stuff, but this link was just dirty. If my son did that he'd learn how to pay his way through college, if I didn't kill him outright.
I think a contributing factor was certainly the weather; you just don't get much nicer days in mid-November in upstate NY than we had on saterday. That likely led to much of the partying extending outdoors, similar to what occurred at Hot Dog Day 2013 when we had pleasant weather for the first time in 3 or 4 years.
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority. No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority. No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.
I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.
I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.
I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?
I don't know...
I don't have a connection to either school, but I know what it's like to fear losing a beloved rivalry. When I was a student at Wabash (in the mid-late 90s) there were a couple of serious brawls that happened when Depauw fans tore down our goalposts after winning the Monon Bell in 96 and 98. I know there was a palpable dread that the game would cease being played after the 98 brawl. I don't know if it was ever seriously discussed by the schools but the idea of losing the game forced the schools and student bodies to figure out a way to make it work without brawls happening. Since then the rivalry has been drama free off the field.
As an outsider I can say Cortaca Jug is a rivalry game that a lot of us around the country keep an eye on and I would hate for the schools, fans, and alunni to lose it. I hope y'all can figure out a way to keep the game going and keep this from happening again.
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority. No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.
I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.
I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.
I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?
I don't know...
Alfred instituted a few new laws to address these concerns last year. Peruse if you enjoy reading legal code:
Social Hosting (http://alfredny.org/PDF%20Documents/Social%20Hosting%202012-3.pdf)
Noise (http://alfredny.org/PDF%20Documents/Anti%20Noise%202012-5.pdf)
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority. No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.
I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.
I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.
I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?
I don't know...
Alfred instituted a few new laws to address these concerns last year. Peruse if you enjoy reading legal code:
Social Hosting (http://alfredny.org/PDF%20Documents/Social%20Hosting%202012-3.pdf)
Noise (http://alfredny.org/PDF%20Documents/Anti%20Noise%202012-5.pdf)
Thanks Kaz! These are the case studies the school and town here in Cortland need to be looking to for guidance on how to approach the issues from last weekend. The city's common council voted 6-2 against ending the game, so it appears that the game will be played next year in Cortland as planned. There has been a committee of school and town officials to plan strategy around avoiding future policies, so we shall see.
Quote from: sjfcards on November 20, 2013, 11:55:51 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 20, 2013, 08:49:47 AM
Quote from: sjfcards on November 19, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Quote from: AUKaz00 on November 19, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
If Cortland is serious about cracking down - Cortaca or not - then expulsion of arrested students - on or off campus - needs to be a priority. No amount of "civic engagement" will overcome the ill-feelings held by the community in the wake of events like those in Cortland last weekend.
I agree this policy is a must, at least for Cortaca weekend. The problem is that even the mayor is saying that the # of arrests is not really a great indicator of how out of control it was. At some point the cops stopped arresting people, and were just trying to control the crowd. So, a lot of behavior went unpunished. I think if you host a house party, and that party is deemed uncooperative with police, there needs to be some sort of crackdown on those students as well. But that will pose issues as well, as several students from the local community college also live on Clayton Ave.
I think some buy in from both schools to institute policies like you describe is a good start. I also think the city should increase the fines for violations like public drunkenness, open container, etc. for that weekend. If nothing else it may pay for the extra police presence that is required.
I appreciate Dr. Bitterbaums apology, and believe he is committed to fixing the issue. However, a lot of this comes down to the students taking some action as well. Most of the student reaction we have seen has been something to the effect of "yeah it was crazy, but it was just kids having fun. Besides what is the town going to do about it." I think maybe a one year hiatus for the game is the best move, but how is that fair to next years seniors on the football team who have very little to do with all this stuff?
I don't know...
Alfred instituted a few new laws to address these concerns last year. Peruse if you enjoy reading legal code:
Social Hosting (http://alfredny.org/PDF%20Documents/Social%20Hosting%202012-3.pdf)
Noise (http://alfredny.org/PDF%20Documents/Anti%20Noise%202012-5.pdf)
Thanks Kaz! These are the case studies the school and town here in Cortland need to be looking to for guidance on how to approach the issues from last weekend. The city's common council voted 6-2 against ending the game, so it appears that the game will be played next year in Cortland as planned. There has been a committee of school and town officials to plan strategy around avoiding future policies, so we shall see.
Most American Cities and States already have ordinances like this on the books, and I assume Cortland does too. There are also state laws which I assume prohibit underage drinking anywhere (private or public) if you are under the age of 21.
So enforcement and sanctions by the colleges are the main issues in my opinion, not the laws already on the books, but new laws might help:
- Limit the number of unrelated persons who can live in one dwelling.
- Students who violate noise ordinances face sanctions by the college
- Landlords/Owners face civil/criminal penalties for keeping disorderly houses
- Public drinking ordinances enforced early on Cortaca Days.
- Arrest first policies for disorderly offenses.
- Cameras and Videotaping students for future prosecutions/sanctions by colleges.
- Limit Bars hours on these days and enforce ID/Fire/capacity codes
Having grown up in Cortland on Pleasant St. (off Clayton) and my Dad having been a prof and football coach for the Red Dragons I was sorry to see this happen. My high school classmate Mike Catalano is chief of police in town. The locals do get into the whole Cortaca scene, and in general people appreciate everything the college brings to the town (including the Jets summer camp). A few of my Hobart buds who live in Cortland and Ithaca look forward to the game and enjoy the festivities. Many Cortland businesses take advantage and the Board of Legislators voted down a resolution to ban the game after lobbying by local businesses to keep it going. Bars have "breakfast and booze" specials and arrests were happening in the afternoon before the game was even over 20 miles away in Ithaca. So moving the game won't have much impact.
Part of the problem is that Cortland's enrollment has grown and they haven't built on campus residences so there are neighborhoods that are basically student ghettos now. Put together a few house parties 100 yards from the Dark Horse and you have a recipe for trouble on a gorgeous fall day.
They will have to ban establishments selling beer before noon and get out on the street and prevent trouble before it starts. Or conversely close off Main Street completely and keep them all some place where they will do less damage and can be controlled better. They already call in reinforcements from other places and they may have to pony up for more police presence next year. Shouldn't stop playing the game.
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:
http://theithacan.org/35331
The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:
2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500
I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca
Did not realize until I read that article that Susan Bassett was now AD at Ithaca. She was AD for the latter part of my tenure at CMU and left a very, very good impression on the athletes (football and others) that overlapped with me. Not sure how long she has been there or if you've had any dealings with her but I'd vouch quite strongly for her.
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:
http://theithacan.org/35331
The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:
2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500
I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca
They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too. Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up. The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end. I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:
http://theithacan.org/35331
The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:
2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500
I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca
And these figures also seem to lead to less problems in Ithaca:
QuoteMike Welch, Ithaca Bombers head coach, said SUNY Cortland should do more to prepare for situations like this.
"They have to anticipate it, like we have done in our previous games," he said. "The games here, there is not even a fraction of the problems we used to have 10 years ago."
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 21, 2013, 02:00:21 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:
http://theithacan.org/35331
The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:
2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500
I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca
They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too. Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up. The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end. I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.
I disagree with this. The Ithaca College athletic homepage announced ticket purchasing procedures a month before the game, complete with a link to alumni ticket purchasing, which I believe 225 people got tickets from in two days:
http://bombers.ithaca.edu/news/2013/10/7/FB_1007131735.aspx
Cortland's Web site announced it about three weeks prior to the game.
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 03:16:18 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 21, 2013, 02:00:21 PM
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:
http://theithacan.org/35331
The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:
2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500
I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca
They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too. Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up. The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end. I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.
I disagree with this. The Ithaca College athletic homepage announced ticket purchasing procedures a month before the game, complete with a link to alumni ticket purchasing, which I believe 225 people got tickets from in two days:
http://bombers.ithaca.edu/news/2013/10/7/FB_1007131735.aspx
Cortland's Web site announced it about three weeks prior to the game.
Oh you can get two tickets if you plan it the right way ahead of time, but you used to be able to by 10 tickets for 100 bucks two days before the game. I never know for sure if I can make it or not, and I'm sure a lot of others wait until a few days befor ethe game to get tickets too. They limited the number of tickets each school could sell about 10-15 years ago.
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 18, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Well that escalated quickly!
I'd keep the game but only allot 1000 tickets to each school, seriously how many people do each teams draw to games outside Cortaca?
Or play it at the Dome up the road that can handle all the foot and vehicle traffic.
The game itself is not the issue. Pep has not heard a report of problems at the game held in Ithaca. The problems were in Cortland where the 1,000 partiers at some eight student-occupied houses along Clayton Avenue spilled out onto the streets. Pep actually knew of at least two AU students who were invited by friends to "Cortaca" but who did not attend the game in Ithaca, but watched it in Cortland. Of 80 persons arrested in Cortland, only 19 were Cortland students...
What has happened is Cortaca has turned into a "party day" and friends from other colleges are invited to the big bash, much as Alfred University and Alfred State College students are joined by their friends from other colleges for Hot Dog Day, which also drew much criticism by local residents back in late April. As in Cortland, the majority of those arrested in Alfred during Hot Dog Day festivities were neither AU or ASC students, according to the local police chief.
It's actually a discredit to the fine football teams at Ithaca and Cortland because the public drunkenness and debauchery is a distraction from the game itself.
you say it like it is a bad thing Pep.
Quote from: Knightstalker on November 21, 2013, 08:27:19 PM
Quote from: AUPepBand on November 18, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Upstate on November 18, 2013, 05:20:32 PM
Well that escalated quickly!
I'd keep the game but only allot 1000 tickets to each school, seriously how many people do each teams draw to games outside Cortaca?
Or play it at the Dome up the road that can handle all the foot and vehicle traffic.
The game itself is not the issue. Pep has not heard a report of problems at the game held in Ithaca. The problems were in Cortland where the 1,000 partiers at some eight student-occupied houses along Clayton Avenue spilled out onto the streets. Pep actually knew of at least two AU students who were invited by friends to "Cortaca" but who did not attend the game in Ithaca, but watched it in Cortland. Of 80 persons arrested in Cortland, only 19 were Cortland students...
What has happened is Cortaca has turned into a "party day" and friends from other colleges are invited to the big bash, much as Alfred University and Alfred State College students are joined by their friends from other colleges for Hot Dog Day, which also drew much criticism by local residents back in late April. As in Cortland, the majority of those arrested in Alfred during Hot Dog Day festivities were neither AU or ASC students, according to the local police chief.
It's actually a discredit to the fine football teams at Ithaca and Cortland because the public drunkenness and debauchery is a distraction from the game itself.
you say it like it is a bad thing Pep.
Yeah, because it is. I mean, I know you're kidding. But this has always been my issue with Cortaca. The real fans get squeezed out by drunken students who don't care about the game, or even the football team in general
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 21, 2013, 02:00:21 PM
They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too. Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up. The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end. I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.
You should encourage IC to take Cortland's lead and offer a season ticket package. The $56 I pay for 5 home games at Cortland's stadium is absolutely worthwhile. I have a reserved seat for Cortaca in the first section near the 50 yard line, surrounded mostly by parents. I can walk in the door at 11:30 and not worry about whether or not I can see the game. It encourages people to support the remaining 4 games, and not just Cortaca.
Quote from: Bombers798891 on November 21, 2013, 01:48:52 PM
First the good news. The game is not going anywhere:
http://theithacan.org/35331
The bad news however, was the attendance figure: 6,500. Let's look at the Ithaca-only attendance for Cortaca:
2001: 12,620 (school-record)
2007: 9,700
2009: 9,700
2013: 6,500
I couldn't find the others, but this points to a disturbing picture that the article mentions: This game isn't about football anymore. Saturday was a beautiful day. Sunny, probably around 50 degrees. And the Cortland attendance was pitiful. But clearly, it's better to drink in Cortland than watch football in Ithaca
This may be bad news for the schools from a revenue perspective, but personally I love it. The Cortaca crowd last Saturday was one of the most well-behaved and respectful that I can remember. The Cortland stands were full of parents and some former players. I'm sure a few people did some drinking, but I didn't see anyone who appeared "drunk." I didn't see any F* IC shirts, and I didn't hear any derogatory "chants". It was a great freaking day for football, and a great crowd. I'm sorry about what happened in Cortland, but I am thrilled that those idiots didn't ruin the game. If they never come to another Cortaca game at Ithaca, it will be too soon.
Quote from: DanPadavona on November 22, 2013, 03:42:19 PM
Quote from: Jonny "Utes" Utah on November 21, 2013, 02:00:21 PM
They have made it extremely difficult to get tickets though too. Every other year or so I'll throw the football program a small donation ($50 to $250) and for that I usually only request a few tickets to a game if I ask to come up. The coaches always hook me up, but the Cortland game was tough to get even on their end. I can only assume it was pretty hard for students or at least friends of students.
You should encourage IC to take Cortland's lead and offer a season ticket package. The $56 I pay for 5 home games at Cortland's stadium is absolutely worthwhile. I have a reserved seat for Cortaca in the first section near the 50 yard line, surrounded mostly by parents. I can walk in the door at 11:30 and not worry about whether or not I can see the game. It encourages people to support the remaining 4 games, and not just Cortaca.
Reserved seating, Pep surmises, would be difficult to do at Butterfield Stadium, where there are to my knowledge no "stadium seats." AU has some purple stadium seats now at Yunevich Stadium and offers a season ticket package for fans and donors...and, by the way, the Alfland Mug remains in Mayberry!
On Saxon Warriors!