Came across something that was pretty cool (click on it to enlarge)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Buc0NEiCYAAu_XF.png)
This got me thinking of what a DIII football "most hated" map would look like. I'm guessing the map would have a lot of purple in it. The only states not in purple might be the Northeast and Southeast parts of the country. However, since Mount always ends up in the East playoff region....the NE might be purple as well.
I wouldn't mind getting other people's thoughts from around the D3 world, especially those from the Southeast and Northeast.
I think it'll be cool to get a collective list going, from state to state.
For example:
Wisconsin: UW-Whitewater
Ohio: Mount Union
Minnesota: UST (barely edging out SJU and UWW)
Oregon: Linfield
Texas: MHB
Considering UWW, UMU, Wesley, Linfield and UMHB all wear purple I'm guessing you'd have a whole lot of purple across the map. However, the map might not be so readable. There are twice as many D3 teams as D1 (counting the new autonomous teams there are 4 times as many D3 teams as those with full advantage to compete in D1), so you'd end up with a lot of little rivalries. For example, UMU might be hated in a lot of areas but if you asked Wabash fans who they hate most it would have to be Depauw. I can't imagine anyone in the HCAC dislikes UMU more than Franklin. Wesley might be toughest to beat in the mid-Atlantic but they aren't really a "hated" rivalry for anyone, since they've been independent and forced to play such an odd group of teams every year. Either way, I don't think you'd end up with a UT-Austin sized area across D3 like you do in the D1 map. Too many conferences each with a couple of true rivalries...
Very true. Like in D1, many conferences spread throughout many states...hence Texas being hated by everyone in Big12 states. So we may only see one school per state if a DIII one was made.
There still would be a lot of purple though:
Texas
Ohio
Wisconsin
Oregon
Minnesota (maybe)
parts of the east coast (Wesley)?
However, I wonder if people's hatred for schools extend outside their conference in DIII? Just the way Nevada, Mass and Maine (apparently) hating Michigan the worst. ???
Illinois would be an interesting one for DIII. I'm originally from there, and I know a lot of people who hate UWW...but then again. a lot of CCIW schools/fans (not from Naperville) I'm sure would vote for NCC.
Quote from: jknezek on August 07, 2014, 03:31:47 PM
Considering UWW, UMU, Wesley, Linfield and UMHB all wear purple I'm guessing you'd have a whole lot of purple across the map. However, the map might not be so readable. There are twice as many D3 teams as D1 (counting the new autonomous teams there are 4 times as many D3 teams as those with full advantage to compete in D1), so you'd end up with a lot of little rivalries. For example, UMU might be hated in a lot of areas but if you asked Wabash fans who they hate most it would have to be Depauw. I can't imagine anyone in the HCAC dislikes UMU more than Franklin. Wesley might be toughest to beat in the mid-Atlantic but they aren't really a "hated" rivalry for anyone, since they've been independent and forced to play such an odd group of teams every year. Either way, I don't think you'd end up with a UT-Austin sized area across D3 like you do in the D1 map. Too many conferences each with a couple of true rivalries...
I don't know about purple, but I do agree that in the D 3 landscape, most hated (and most respected) would usually be conference rivals or area rivals. Also, I had a chance to talk to a number of people in the mid-Atlantic, mainly from CAC schools that have a strong dislike for Wesley due to them being an independent institution. Also, I've heard that the Route 13 rivalry can get intense at times. Overall, I think teams that win majority of the time are the most disliked, but it only makes watching sports that more exciting when it comes to rivalries and such.
Yeah. Salisbury is the rivalry for Wesley, but I bet Frostburg would go with Salisbury. But again, that's a pretty small area. Does CNU really hate Wesley? Or Salisbury? Or one of their current conference teams? Or anyone? If you asked W&L I don't know how it would go. Some combination of Bridgewater, HSC, Centre and Sewanee, which is half the freaking schedule. I'd guess HSC this year since they are expected to be top dog...
Wesley is actually navy and white, not purple.
If they changed their color from navy to purple, they might win the Stagg! :)
Fascinating because the "most hated" schools are really also the schools with the biggest fan followings themselves (not unlike the Yankees/Red Sox in baseball, the Lakers in basketball, the Cowboys in football). I assume Alabama gets the "most hated" label in that region from Auburn and LSU fans? Texas, likewise, from "all other Texas and Big 12 schools" and USC from "all other PAC-12 schools" - it's amusing to see those two schools so reviled in their own home state by "other school" fans when the opposite is true for Michigan-OSU (of course, this makes sense). There are a couple of puzzlers (why is Michigan the most hated school in Nevada? why is Washington more hated in Oregon than USC?)
The main driver seems to be conference/blood rivalries more than national success.
I'll go against the first few replies here: I don't think there would be all THAT much purple because I don't think Mount, UWW, UMHB are really "hated" that much nationwide; they seem to be pretty highly respected around the country for their success, and they're basically ignored by most schools who never realistically expect to play against them anyway (I remember being surprised at how little most of my teammates really knew about the Division III scene when I was in college; I was one of a handful of guys that read d3football.com regularly and became at least somewhat aware of the national scene, and I was the only guy who made it a point to watch the Stagg Bowl). I go with jknezek's point of view that the map would be virtually unreadable because there are so many more conferences and that the "most hated" would lean more towards local rivalries than the national powers.
(as a CMU player, my "most hated" answer would have probably been WashU...but I'm guessing the other Western-PA Division III schools would have had very different answers - most of the PAC schools probably would say Washington & Jefferson, I'd guess, so you might have a little pocket there...probably anywhere there was one team especially dominant within its conference, you might have a pocket of "unanimity" in the most hated department)
Ducks vs. Huskies runs deep. That one doesn't puzzle me at all. I'm amused by the BYU hate (more to that one than just football).
On a possible D3 version: I wonder if Rowan would still get quite a few votes in the East. Or are those KC Keeler, Beast of the East, days too far in the past. I'm sure that others are sick of MtU 'going' East for the postseason, but I don't know if that would trump the local/conference rivals.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 07, 2014, 05:52:30 PM
Wesley is actually navy and white, not purple.
If they changed their color from navy to purple, they might win the Stagg! :)
And I think they would be willing to do this!
What about Wabash? Those guys are the WORST.
DePauw Never Quits!
Quote from: Breckenridgebear on September 12, 2014, 10:52:28 AM
What about Wabash? Those guys are the WORST.
DePauw Never Quits!
There is not a student at your school that has ever actually seen or touched the Monon Bell. It exists only in legend. Enough outta you until your team can actually play a competitive game in this series.
My point exactly. Just the worst.
I did a little research over the weekend, and I tried my best to replicate that DI map from above to see how it might look from a DIII football point of view. I took into account that there's not many rivalries that cross over state lines like DI, but rather each state (conference) might have it's own less desirable school. I'll try my best not to use the work hate in here (even though it's already been stated in the name of the thread). To hate something, means you don't respect it, in my opinion. Which isn't the case at all with most of these rivalries.
Obviously there is tons of room for debate on this, and I can easily be persuaded one way or another on many of these states....especially out East. However, there were a few clear cut ones like Ohio (Mount), Wisconsin (UWW), Oregon and Washington (Linfield), Texas (MHB). So please weigh in, and let me know your thoughts on some of these. For the record, I just listed states that have D3 football programs. because I'm confident the fine folks in Wyoming couldn't even name a DIII school...let alone hold one in contempt.
OR: Linfield - Easy enough
WA: Linfield - Easy enough
CA: Linfield - Since not one team in the SCIAC stands out from the rest as dominating a conference like Linfield has in the NWC. I think it's safe to assume everyone in the SCIAC has a mutual dislike for the Wildcats. Especially since Linfield typically knocks out the SCIAC champ in the playoffs each year.
MN: St. Thomas - St. John's seemed like the obvious choice since they have won 1/3 of its MIAC titles dating back to 1920. But there seems to be a lot of respect for the Johnnies, rather than disdain. St. Thomas, however, receives a lot of envious eyes the way they've built up their athletic program (recently and fast) making them successful.
IA: Central - The Dutch have experienced a lot of success in the IIAC over the years. So I could understand if many IIAC programs sees Central as the team that sets the bar. This is a state I could easily be persuaded to go with another school.
MO: Chicago - Given there's only two DIII football programs in Missouri, it was easy to learn that Wash U has a long standing rivalry with the Moroons. These two teams play for the Founders Cup each year.
AR: Westminster - A rivalry could be in the making between Hendrix (the only DIII program in AR) and Westminster. The Blue Jays have lost to Hendrix in each of Hendrix's first two seasons they've fielded a team (2013 and 2014).
TX: MHB - Not too much of an argument here.
LA: MHB - Louisiana College's rival Mississippi College is no longer in the DIII picture. So, I would think MHB defaults as the Wildcat's team to beat in the ASC. Right ???
TN: Trinity (TX) - Both Sewanee and Rhodes have never fared too well against Trinity dating back to their SCAC days. Plus I'm sure they hated that long trip to boot.
KY: Mount St. Joseph - Each year Thomas More battles the Lions in the Bridge Bowl.
IL: NCC - There's numerous conferences in this state, with many rivalries. But given how many CCIW teams reside in IL, they must get sick of NCC taking the crown for the better part of 10 years. 20 years ago, Augustana would have been the easy choice for IL.
WI: UWW - No explanation needed.
IN: Franklin - You can almost pencil in the Grizzlies as HCAC champs each year....which I'm sure doesn't sit well with the rest of the conference.
MI: Albion - This was another tough one......but I'm sure the MIAA doesn't like the fact that the Britons have only lost three conference games in as many years (2011-13). Plus they are the only team in this conference that has a national championship.
MS: Wesley - With bitter rival Mississippi College out of the DIII picture, I would guess that some of Millsaps animosity is now directed towards Wesley for getting the Pool C bid year in and year out.. Amirght? :-\
PA: Thomas More - The Saints are kind of on an island in northern Kentucky as far as the rest of the PAC is concerned. I'm sure the conference loathes traveling across Ohio just to lose to the Saints.
WV: Washington & Jefferson - Bethany has a long-standing clash with the Presidents.
VA: Bridgewater (VA) - The Eagles absolutely terrorized the ODAC from '01-'05....never losing a conference game during that stretch.
NC: Greensboro - The Soup Bowl is an interesting rivalry game between Guildford and Greensboro. Winning the game is only half of it, as each school also competes to see who raises the most canned goods for charity. I selected Greensboro because there are two other USAC foes in the state of NC, while none of Guildford's ODAC opponents reside in NC.
AL: Wesley - Much like in Mississippi, both Birmingham-Southern and Huntingdon compete with the Wolverines for the lone Pool C bid. (Open for suggestions on this one).
GA: Huntingdon - LaGrange has faced the Hawks each year since its inaugural season in 2000. Huntingdon has won all but two of the games. Berry College (also in GA) is too new to the DIII scene for any such rivalry.
DL: MHB - Being an independent program (free from conference rivals), It's likely that Wesley has developed a nice rivalry with MHB since they regularly meet in the playoffs.
MD: Johns Hopkins - McDaniel College has been competing annually with the Blue Jays in the Maryland Railroad Lantern Game. These two have been going at it since 1884! :o . The bout has been one-sided lately as the Green Terror haven't taken home the trophy since 2000.
NJ: Rowan - The envy of the NJAC from 1992 to 2006. The Profs reached the Stagg Bowl five times during that span while accumulating 9 NJAC titles.
NY: Hobart - The Statesmen of the LL, are basically the Franklin Grizzlies of the HCAC. Hobart has been almost unbeatable in its conference which is largely based out of NY (along with long-time rival Rochester).
CT: Merchant Marine - The Coast Guard are huge foes of the Mariners, who battle for the Secretaries Cup each year.
MA: Wesleyan - Amherst, Williams and Wesleyan make up the famous "Little Three" rivalry in the NESCAC. Wesleyan is the odd team out as they're located in Connecticut, while the other two are in-state. So it's safe to assume neither the Lord Jeffs and the Ephs think very highly of the Cardinals (and each other).
VT: Norwich - The Cadets have an old rivalry with neighboring Middlebury of the NESCAC. Not to mention in-state ECFC competitor Castleton State.
RI: Curry - This one is a shot in the dark....Unsure who Salve Regina (lone D3 program in Rhode Island) despises the most.
NH: Curry - Plymouth State always seemed to battle Curry on who finished atop the NEFC Boyd conference in the late 2000's
ME: Mass Maritime - The Buccaneers have been fighting Maine Maritime for 42 years over The Admiral's Cup.
Again I can easily concede many of these, as there are numerous people out there with more DIII knowledge than me. I just based my findings on some quick research and educated guesses. :)
I'd only speak for a couple of them but there are so many cases to be made. For TN I highly doubt it's Trinity. Sewanee's rival is probably Depauw. But given the SAA connections I think it's likely Centre is the boogeyman in both Rhodes and Sewanee's case. For Maryville I'd say Methodist, but I doubt you get much consensus.
In VA saying Bridgewater just won't cut it. 10 years ago, probably. 20 years ago it would have been E&H. Today? Probably HSC. The ODAC schools are looking up at HSC, and the Tigers and CNU have played enough recently to share some history. Not too mention the RMC - HSC rivalry is the big one in the state. Bridgewater hasn't really scared anyone in almost a decade.
Delaware is either Salisbury, the traditional rival of Wesley even if the series has been one-sided, or UMU, the traditional end of Wesley's road. In AL you have only two teams and they are disliked rivals of each other. Such as it is the top half of the state will go Huntingdon and the bottom half BSC. There isn't another option.
MS is going with Centre again as the stumbling block for Millsaps. The SAA schools dumped Trinity, which shows either a lot of respect or a lack of respect. Either way, they killed that as a potential rival and at least one side seems uninterested in scheduling the other. To have a rivalry you have to have games.
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 16, 2014, 03:15:41 PM
AL: Wesley - Much like in Mississippi, both Birmingham-Southern and Huntingdon compete with the Wolverines for the lone Pool C bid. (Open for suggestions on this one).
Personally I dislike BSC much more than Wesley. I have plenty of respect for Wesley as one of the top programs and playing them gives us a good measuring stick to where our program is at. BSC? Nope, don't like 'em at all.
As others have written, the "most hated school" of any program is very specific to that program's geography, conference affiliation, recent level of success and personalities of the coaches.
When I was in college at Trinity in Connecticut from 1996-2000, the natural rival was supposed to be Wesleyan based on geography, if nothing else. But the football games against Amherst and Williams, which were more successful programs, always seemed bigger. And since the NESCAC schools wouldn't play schools from other conferences, no one would've considered any of them rivals.
Then I covered Cortland for a few years and their deepest rivalry was with Ithaca, just as it is now. The rivalry theoretically gets more heated when Cortland joins the Empire 8, but I'm not sure it's possible to add much more heat to that rivalry. It's already the most intense I've seen at this level, at least in this part of the country.
Now I've covered Delaware Valley for 10 years and their biggest rival depends on whom you ask. The press-ready answer is that Widener is the biggest rival and there's certainly an added level of tension in that game, especially now that both programs are consistently competing for the MAC title. But some of the coaches in prior years told me that Albright was the bigger rivalry and I personally always felt like the games against Lycoming are just as tense as those against Widener.
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2014, 04:07:01 PM
I'd only speak for a couple of them but there are so many cases to be made. For TN I highly doubt it's Trinity. Sewanee's rival is probably Depauw. But given the SAA connections I think it's likely Centre is the boogeyman in both Rhodes and Sewanee's case. For Maryville I'd say Methodist, but I doubt you get much consensus.
In VA saying Bridgewater just won't cut it. 10 years ago, probably. 20 years ago it would have been E&H. Today? Probably HSC. The ODAC schools are looking up at HSC, and the Tigers and CNU have played enough recently to share some history. Not too mention the RMC - HSC rivalry is the big one in the state. Bridgewater hasn't really scared anyone in almost a decade.
Delaware is either Salisbury, the traditional rival of Wesley even if the series has been one-sided, or UMU, the traditional end of Wesley's road. In AL you have only two teams and they are disliked rivals of each other. Such as it is the top half of the state will go Huntingdon and the bottom half Huntingdon. There isn't another option.
MS is going with Centre again as the stumbling block for Millsaps. The SAA schools dumped Trinity, which shows either a lot of respect or a lack of respect. Either way, they killed that as a potential rival and neither side seems interested in scheduling the other. To have a rivalry you have to have games.
I would agree to most of these. However, Wesley has lost to MHB now three times in the past two seasons. And has faced them 9 times in the past 10 years (playoffs and regular season). I'm interested in getting a Wesley fan's POV on that.
Thanks for the insight about TN!
Quote from: gordonmann on September 16, 2014, 04:21:47 PM
As others have written, the "most hated school" of any program is very specific to that program's geography, conference affiliation, recent level of success and personalities of the coaches.
When I was in college at Trinity in Connecticut from 1996-2000, the natural rival was supposed to be Wesleyan based on geography, if nothing else. But the football games against Amherst and Williams, which were more successful programs, always seemed bigger. And since the NESCAC schools wouldn't play schools from other conferences, no one would've considered any of them rivals.
Then I covered Cortland for a few years and their deepest rivalry was with Ithaca, just as it is now. The rivalry theoretically gets more heated when Cortland joins the Empire 8, but I'm not sure it's possible to add much more heat to that rivalry. It's already the most intense I've seen at this level, at least in this part of the country.
Now I've covered Delaware Valley for 10 years and their biggest rival depends on whom you ask. The press-ready answer is that Widener is the biggest rival and there's certainly an added level of tension in that game, especially now that both programs are consistently competing for the MAC title. But some of the coaches in prior years told me that Albright was the bigger rivalry and I personally always felt like the games against Lycoming are just as tense as those against Widener.
Awesome...good stuff. Thanks!
Quote from: Hawks88 on September 16, 2014, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 16, 2014, 03:15:41 PM
AL: Wesley - Much like in Mississippi, both Birmingham-Southern and Huntingdon compete with the Wolverines for the lone Pool C bid. (Open for suggestions on this one).
Personally I dislike BSC much more than Wesley. I have plenty of respect for Wesley as one of the top programs and playing them gives us a good measuring stick to where our program is at. BSC? Nope, don't like 'em at all.
The thing is, I'm sure they dislike Huntingdon right back, so it's kind of a push. You have a DI Auburn/Alabama thing going on at the DIII level. That's why I went with someone you
might both mutually don't care for. Unless we can prove who doesn't like who more.
I'd disagree about Michigan - no one hates Albion (or even thinks about them). Although it doesn't work for football since Calvin doesn't have a team, the most hated school for Hope fans is Calvin, and vice versa. All other teams are rarely even thought about.
Quote from: gordonmann on September 16, 2014, 04:21:47 PM
As others have written, the "most hated school" of any program is very specific to that program's geography, conference affiliation, recent level of success and personalities of the coaches.
When I was in college at Trinity in Connecticut from 1996-2000, the natural rival was supposed to be Wesleyan based on geography, if nothing else. But the football games against Amherst and Williams, which were more successful programs, always seemed bigger. And since the NESCAC schools wouldn't play schools from other conferences, no one would've considered any of them rivals.
Then I covered Cortland for a few years and their deepest rivalry was with Ithaca, just as it is now. The rivalry theoretically gets more heated when Cortland joins the Empire 8, but I'm not sure it's possible to add much more heat to that rivalry. It's already the most intense I've seen at this level, at least in this part of the country.
Now I've covered Delaware Valley for 10 years and their biggest rival depends on whom you ask. The press-ready answer is that Widener is the biggest rival and there's certainly an added level of tension in that game, especially now that both programs are consistently competing for the MAC title. But some of the coaches in prior years told me that Albright was the bigger rivalry and I personally always felt like the games against Lycoming are just as tense as those against Widener.
With the key phrase being 'in this part of the country'. Cortaca is intense, but the Monon Bell (Wabash/DePauw) is a freakin' war (DePauw considers all-male Wabash to be knuckle-dragging cavemen and homos, Wabash gets their revenge by marrying half the DePauw co-eds)! And, while Calvin doesn't have a football team, in basketball and all other sports, Calvin/Hope dwarfs even the Monon Bell. (With the rivalry being exacerbated by doctrinal differences between very similar Christian schools, and being only 20 miles apart.) (St. John's and St. Thomas also deserve mention - those folks just don't like each other! St. John's considers the Tommies to be a bunch of spoiled rich kid snobs, while the Tommies consider the Johnnies to be a bunch of rubes.)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 16, 2014, 04:50:57 PM
I'd disagree about Michigan - no one hates Albion (or even thinks about them). Although it doesn't work for football since Calvin doesn't have a team, the most hated school for Hope fans is Calvin, and vice versa. All other teams are rarely even thought about.
With Calvin not in the picture for football...I'm curious what MIAA football program the MIAA "gets up" for the most? Since 2011 I would think Albion has that bulls-eye on it's back.
Despite Albion's run, I'm not sure it is them. Maybe Hope. Maybe Olivet (despite utter failure in the past). This year, probably Adrian. Despite their NC season, Albion in general just doesn't have the success to be targeted. Hope (and Calvin in most sports) have the perennial success (in tennis, it is Kazoo). This year I would guess it is Hope and Adrian.
sac would be the better source of info.
Quote from: 02 Warhawk on September 16, 2014, 04:24:11 PM
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2014, 04:07:01 PM
I'd only speak for a couple of them but there are so many cases to be made. For TN I highly doubt it's Trinity. Sewanee's rival is probably Depauw. But given the SAA connections I think it's likely Centre is the boogeyman in both Rhodes and Sewanee's case. For Maryville I'd say Methodist, but I doubt you get much consensus.
In VA saying Bridgewater just won't cut it. 10 years ago, probably. 20 years ago it would have been E&H. Today? Probably HSC. The ODAC schools are looking up at HSC, and the Tigers and CNU have played enough recently to share some history. Not too mention the RMC - HSC rivalry is the big one in the state. Bridgewater hasn't really scared anyone in almost a decade.
Delaware is either Salisbury, the traditional rival of Wesley even if the series has been one-sided, or UMU, the traditional end of Wesley's road. In AL you have only two teams and they are disliked rivals of each other. Such as it is the top half of the state will go Huntingdon and the bottom half Huntingdon. There isn't another option.
MS is going with Centre again as the stumbling block for Millsaps. The SAA schools dumped Trinity, which shows either a lot of respect or a lack of respect. Either way, they killed that as a potential rival and neither side seems interested in scheduling the other. To have a rivalry you have to have games.
I would agree to most of these. However, Wesley has lost to MHB now three times in the past two seasons. And has faced them 9 times in the past 10 years (playoffs and regular season). I'm interested in getting a Wesley fan's POV on that.
Thanks for the insight about TN!
From a Wesley fan's perspective. There is definitely a rivalry between MHB and us. Don't know if I can say they are one of the most hated teams for me because there is a lot of respect between the two teams. A little dislike there maybe from the first 4-5 matchups, but a lot of respect. Maybe because the last 3 meetings you kind of got the feeling that UMHB was a better team. In the past two regular season matchups, they did not really impact the postseason prospects for Wesley. I think if Wesley was left out, there would be a little more animosity there. Salisbury is a little more "hated" IMO, even though the series has been one sided. Those games (with the exception of this year) are always pretty close and there is always some sort of national recognition that the winner gets (yes, Wesley gets a little boost from the Route 13 Rivalry).
For myself, Mount Union is up there as well. I dont know if its because I live in Ohio or what but, I do feel a little bit of animosity there. I think the past two meetings in 2011 and 2013 Wesley had the opportunity to win and it is an interesting experience playing in Mount Union. I think the 2011 team led by McSweeny was Wesley's best shot at winning the Stagg as well. Going through Hobart, Linfield, and MHB. That team peaked at the right time.
So I would rank the teams in my opinion: Salisbury first with MHB very, very close behind, then Mount Union. Maybe Mount Union and MHB are tied (depends on who we have to go through to get to Salem). ;) :)
As a lifelong Cru, I can definitely say that our biggest rivalries outside of the ASC are Whitwater, Wesley, MU, and Linfield.
The first time we played Whitewater in Belton, I couldn't believe how big they were. They scored a TD on the opening kickoff and beat us 7-3. Losing twice to them in 2007 then all the way to having the game in the Semifinals last year and losing has definitely made them our most hated opponent yet with huge respect and appreciation.
Wesley is simply a routineness of playing them.
MU and Linfield are probably tied. We cloaked at MU last time, they played great, and Linfield stole the game from us in the Stagg.
In the state and in the ASC, I'd say Louisiana College is number one and TLU is a close second. HSU used to be the rivalry, and I'm sure we are much hated by them, but there hasn't been much of a rivalry recently.
Let me preface this by saying I have only been following UMHB (and D3 as a whole) for about 5 years now. So, my experience is pretty limited.
Inside the ASC, I definitely look at Louisiana College as my "most hated" (though there is no real hate there). They have given us the most competition these past few years, so I guess they are more like our conference rival. I know that some of the old-timers keep saying Hardin-Simmons is our real rival, but there hasn't been much in the way of competition lately. They compete well against us in some other sports, though. This weekend's game against them should be entertaining. We're the only 2 teams left that are unbeaten in conference play.
Outside of the ASC, I look at Wesley and maybe UWW as our "most hated". We've produced good results against the former, and still struggling for our first win against the latter. But, as they say, to be the best you have to beat the best. Here's hoping we get another shot this season.
*As an aside, I met some wonderful Wesley fans when they traveled to our stadium opening last season. The same goes for UWW in last season's semis. Both have passionate fanbases and I look forward to future meetings between them.
I don't see an edit option (probably because I wrote the last post several hours ago), but I wanted to make one little change.
I wasn't trying to belittle Wesley's record against us. In fact, if you look at the big picture, they've probably beaten UMHB just as many times as we've beat them. I was more speaking to our recent history. Both schools have a great tradition and I really look forward to future match-ups.
Quote from: jknezek on September 16, 2014, 04:07:01 PM
In VA saying Bridgewater just won't cut it. 10 years ago, probably. 20 years ago it would have been E&H. Today? Probably HSC. The ODAC schools are looking up at HSC, and the Tigers and CNU have played enough recently to share some history. Not too mention the RMC - HSC rivalry is the big one in the state. Bridgewater hasn't really scared anyone in almost a decade.
As a player, I liked E&H the least, mostly because that's who we had to go through for titles. But it was also a horrible road trip with mean fans. Guilford and Catholic were the other hardest games on our schedule 94-97 and I loved playing against those guys.
The H-SC dislike developed in subsequent years after they hired Marty and we hired Pedro and it got competitive again. Of course, rivalry aside, H-SC is a great place to play and Marty is a great coach so respect has developed.
I agree that who wins or who stands in your way most on the way to winning is the main dislike factor, but also attitudes of fans and players, and other prejudices (like having to take a 6-hour bus ride to farm land) play into it. One of my great memories was hating driving past cotton fields on the way to Chowan, then watching the southern boys on the team get all riled up crossing the Mason-Dixon Line en route to Gettysburg.
A bit late to the discussion, but hey.... Anyways, there is no animosity from Wesley fans towards UMHB at all. I think the rivalry there is an honest one and if you ask anybody about Wesley's losses to them they would say the better team won and that was it. I have a personal dislike for Mount Union that stems from my experience during the first playoff game Wesley played there and the treatment both the team and the fans got. It's old history but it still irritates me.
-Ski
Quote from: Teamski on November 06, 2014, 10:11:05 AM
A bit late to the discussion, but hey.... Anyways, there is not animosity from Wesley fans towards UMHB at all. I think the rivalry there is an honest one and if you ask anybody about Wesley's losses to them they would say the better team won and that was it. I have a personal dislike for Mount Union that stems from my experience during the first playoff game Wesley played there and the treatment both the team and the fans got. It's old history but it still irritates me.
-Ski
It's good and bad that Wesley is joining the NJAC next season. Good for them with respect to scheduling games, but bad in the sense that it will be much harder to schedule regular season games with UMHB. As you say, I get the impression that the rivalry has been an honest one and both fan bases get excited for it. Hopefully we can at least meet y'all sometime in the playoffs!
Quote from: GillCJ1 on November 06, 2014, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 06, 2014, 10:11:05 AM
A bit late to the discussion, but hey.... Anyways, there is not animosity from Wesley fans towards UMHB at all. I think the rivalry there is an honest one and if you ask anybody about Wesley's losses to them they would say the better team won and that was it. I have a personal dislike for Mount Union that stems from my experience during the first playoff game Wesley played there and the treatment both the team and the fans got. It's old history but it still irritates me.
-Ski
It's good and bad that Wesley is joining the NJAC next season. Good for them with respect to scheduling games, but bad in the sense that it will be much harder to schedule regular season games with UMHB. As you say, I get the impression that the rivalry has been an honest one and both fan bases get excited for it. Hopefully we can at least meet y'all sometime in the playoffs!
This year it looks like the only way Wesley and UMHB will clash will be in Salem
Quote from: thewaterboy on November 06, 2014, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on November 06, 2014, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 06, 2014, 10:11:05 AM
A bit late to the discussion, but hey.... Anyways, there is not animosity from Wesley fans towards UMHB at all. I think the rivalry there is an honest one and if you ask anybody about Wesley's losses to them they would say the better team won and that was it. I have a personal dislike for Mount Union that stems from my experience during the first playoff game Wesley played there and the treatment both the team and the fans got. It's old history but it still irritates me.
-Ski
It's good and bad that Wesley is joining the NJAC next season. Good for them with respect to scheduling games, but bad in the sense that it will be much harder to schedule regular season games with UMHB. As you say, I get the impression that the rivalry has been an honest one and both fan bases get excited for it. Hopefully we can at least meet y'all sometime in the playoffs!
This year it looks like the only way Wesley and UMHB will clash will be in Salem
Probably. But I could see quantitative reasons why you could have national seeds go:
1) UWW
2) UMHB
3) UMU
4) Wesley
That could send Wesley to the Cruthedral in the semis if things hold serve. I find this unlikely since it would match UMU at UWW in the semis, but a case could be made based on the criteria. I HIGHLY doubt it would happen since in the case of undefeated teams you can use previous playoff outcomes as a determinant, pushing UMU above UMHB, but the committee could get feisty and look at UMU's schedule with a jaundiced eye this year.
Of the four, Wesley has the best SOS right now (in the teens), but the lowest number of D3 games and the weakest playoff history. UMHB will probably have the second SOS (in the 60s right now), but I have to believe UWW's (SOS in the 90s now but probably going to improve some) status as defending champion will outweigh that small inconvenience. That leaves UMU (in the 120s right now but will improve with the JCU game) and UMHB for that two spot. UMU has the history, but UMHB will have the SOS and a possible lingering belief they were the second best team last year.
Do I think it happens? No. But I could see the logic if they wanted to make some waves.
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: thewaterboy on November 06, 2014, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on November 06, 2014, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 06, 2014, 10:11:05 AM
A bit late to the discussion, but hey.... Anyways, there is not animosity from Wesley fans towards UMHB at all. I think the rivalry there is an honest one and if you ask anybody about Wesley's losses to them they would say the better team won and that was it. I have a personal dislike for Mount Union that stems from my experience during the first playoff game Wesley played there and the treatment both the team and the fans got. It's old history but it still irritates me.
-Ski
It's good and bad that Wesley is joining the NJAC next season. Good for them with respect to scheduling games, but bad in the sense that it will be much harder to schedule regular season games with UMHB. As you say, I get the impression that the rivalry has been an honest one and both fan bases get excited for it. Hopefully we can at least meet y'all sometime in the playoffs!
This year it looks like the only way Wesley and UMHB will clash will be in Salem
Probably. But I could see quantitative reasons why you could have national seeds go:
1) UWW
2) UMHB
3) UMU
4) Wesley
That could send Wesley to the Cruthedral in the semis if things hold serve. I find this unlikely since it would match UMU at UWW in the semis, but a case could be made based on the criteria. I HIGHLY doubt it would happen since in the case of undefeated teams you can use previous playoff outcomes as a determinant, pushing UMU above UMHB, but the committee could get feisty and look at UMU's schedule with a jaundiced eye this year.
Of the four, Wesley has the best SOS right now (in the teens), but the lowest number of D3 games and the weakest playoff history. UMHB will probably have the second SOS (in the 60s right now), but I have to believe UWW's (SOS in the 90s now but probably going to improve some) status as defending champion will outweigh that small inconvenience. That leaves UMU (in the 120s right now but will improve with the JCU game) and UMHB for that two spot. UMU has the history, but UMHB will have the SOS and a possible lingering belief they were the second best team last year.
Do I think it happens? No. But I could see the logic if they wanted to make some waves.
Mount Union will not have an away game, until someone beats them there, they will forever play their playoff games in Alliance.
Quote from: D3MAFAN-MG on November 06, 2014, 03:49:50 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 06, 2014, 03:08:52 PM
Quote from: thewaterboy on November 06, 2014, 01:43:01 PM
Quote from: GillCJ1 on November 06, 2014, 10:52:20 AM
Quote from: Teamski on November 06, 2014, 10:11:05 AM
A bit late to the discussion, but hey.... Anyways, there is not animosity from Wesley fans towards UMHB at all. I think the rivalry there is an honest one and if you ask anybody about Wesley's losses to them they would say the better team won and that was it. I have a personal dislike for Mount Union that stems from my experience during the first playoff game Wesley played there and the treatment both the team and the fans got. It's old history but it still irritates me.
-Ski
It's good and bad that Wesley is joining the NJAC next season. Good for them with respect to scheduling games, but bad in the sense that it will be much harder to schedule regular season games with UMHB. As you say, I get the impression that the rivalry has been an honest one and both fan bases get excited for it. Hopefully we can at least meet y'all sometime in the playoffs!
This year it looks like the only way Wesley and UMHB will clash will be in Salem
Probably. But I could see quantitative reasons why you could have national seeds go:
1) UWW
2) UMHB
3) UMU
4) Wesley
That could send Wesley to the Cruthedral in the semis if things hold serve. I find this unlikely since it would match UMU at UWW in the semis, but a case could be made based on the criteria. I HIGHLY doubt it would happen since in the case of undefeated teams you can use previous playoff outcomes as a determinant, pushing UMU above UMHB, but the committee could get feisty and look at UMU's schedule with a jaundiced eye this year.
Of the four, Wesley has the best SOS right now (in the teens), but the lowest number of D3 games and the weakest playoff history. UMHB will probably have the second SOS (in the 60s right now), but I have to believe UWW's (SOS in the 90s now but probably going to improve some) status as defending champion will outweigh that small inconvenience. That leaves UMU (in the 120s right now but will improve with the JCU game) and UMHB for that two spot. UMU has the history, but UMHB will have the SOS and a possible lingering belief they were the second best team last year.
Do I think it happens? No. But I could see the logic if they wanted to make some waves.
Mount Union will not have an away game, until someone beats them there, they will forever play their playoff games in Alliance.
They've been set up for road games in the past but the other teams couldn't hold up their end of the bargain. I think in 2010 Mount might have had to travel to St Thomas.
If I look at this from as un-biased a perspective as I possibly can, I can easily see UMU jumping UMHB which would then force the Cru on the road in a hypothetical semis round. On that note, it makes sense that the likelihood of UMHB/Wesley meeting would probably only occur in Salem.
As always, thanks for your insight fellas.
Due to geography, Millikin was the 'most hated school' for IWU back when I was a student (when dinosaurs roamed the planet). Since they have become completely irrelevant in most sports since then, the 'most hated school' is now probably North Central or Wheaton, depending on the sport.
Since it is officially Monon Bell week, can we all agree that Wabash is just the worst.
As we get closer to Saturday, I am more and more convinced that Wabash is the worst.