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Someone needed to start this..This league is way to important not to have its own topic

Brandeis v CMU......3 minutes in Brandeis scores off a long throw that bounced around and was finished nicely as the CMU GK was somewhat shielded from seeing the ball.

Brandeis came out pumped up and have started well

AA Conor Lanahan with a headed goal to double Brandeis' advantage in the 19th minute.  Off a free kick I believe. 

(Messiah's loss to Carnegie Mellon looking worse all the time, but for those of use who saw that game, it's not a surprise that CMU isn't a Top 10 or even Top 25 team.)

Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 03, 2015, 01:34:42 PM
AA Conor Lanahan with a headed goal to double Brandeis' advantage in the 19th minute.  Off a free kick I believe. 

(Messiah's loss to Carnegie Mellon looking worse all the time, but for those of use who saw that game, it's not a surprise that CMU isn't a Top 10 or even Top 25 team.)

It was actually a direct free kick into the top right corner from the left wing! Probably 35 yards out. Wind definitely helped but it was a great shot. Lanahan shares free kick duties with Ocel. I had predicted that he might take a shot because of the wind, sure enough he did.

3-0  is probably a bit harsh on CMU. They hit the post right after Brandeis scored the first, and while the Judges are definitely deserving of the lead Carnegie has been in this game more than the score line suggests.

Stand corrected on the goal by Lanahan.  Was reading live stats and mis-associated an header attempt just prior.

Quote from: blooter442 on October 03, 2015, 02:08:59 PM

Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 03, 2015, 01:34:42 PM
AA Conor Lanahan with a headed goal to double Brandeis' advantage in the 19th minute.  Off a free kick I believe. 

(Messiah's loss to Carnegie Mellon looking worse all the time, but for those of use who saw that game, it's not a surprise that CMU isn't a Top 10 or even Top 25 team.)

It was actually a direct free kick into the top right corner from the left wing! Probably 35 yards out. Wind definitely helped but it was a great shot. Lanahan shares free kick duties with Ocel. I had predicted that he might take a shot because of the wind, sure enough he did.

3-0  is probably a bit harsh on CMU. They hit the post right after Brandeis scored the first, and while the Judges are definitely deserving of the lead Carnegie has been in this game more than the score line suggests.

Yeah the stats look pretty even.  Blooter, I'm sure you'll give us a full report after the game.  Enjoy your game!

Judges beat the Tartans 4-2 in a wild game.

Brandeis got on the board three minutes in, I actually missed the goal, apparently finished off by Vieira.  Carnegie hit the post right after,  before Brandeis got a second inside 20 minutes. Lanahan hit a free kick from the left wing right into the top right corner. Great shot, but I'm guessing the wind played a factor. Third came before half, finished a nice through ball. Great team goal.

About halfway through the second half, Carnegie player goes down and the ambulance comes. The incident happened right after Brandeis had hacked the ball away. Still not clear what happened, I'm guessing there was a collision off the ball. Either way, game stopped for about 20 minutes while the ambulance came, I think they thought there was a neck issue but thankfully it appears that the guy will be OK.  Anyway, there was a PK awarded,  which confused all of the Brandeis fans because there was  no award when the incident happened. My guess is the refs thought it had to have been a foul off the ball, and so awarded the PK after the ambulance left. CMU scored to make it 3-1.

Brandeis goes down the other end, has a shot cleared off the line, and then scores about 10 minutes later through a nice header from Berg. Carnegie got one back in the last five minutes, highball in the wind wasn't dealt with by Woodhouse, looks to have been a possible foul on the keeper,  but either way Carnegie put it home to make it 4-2. Judges won't have been happy giving up two goals, especially from a PK and a fluky high ball, but beating a Carnegie team who has scored nearly 3 times the number of goals as Brandeis and has some big wins this season means that Brandeis would have definitely taken a 4-2 win before kickoff.  The last two times Brandeis beat Carnegie were both in overtime, so to score four past them and get it done in regulation was definitely a plus.

Lynch and J. Ocel  were excellent for Brandeis, as well as Hernandez. Both goalkeepers looked a little shaky, although I think the wind had something to do with that. Woodhouse made several good saves, and I think that the highball that he mishandled had more to do with the wind than anything. I really liked Friedlander from Carnegie,  very dynamic and good and retaining the ball. Lockwood was good too, I like his fight and he made some good plays too. Was surprised that Webb  didn't play more, he was on in the first half but I don't think I saw him the whole second-half.

Elsewhere, Case with an impressive 4-1 win at NYU. The Spartans haven't been super competitive since Vinny Bell graduated, but they have really started well this year. Was disappointed they didn't get to play Kenyon, I think that would have been a great litmus test for both teams. For NYU, giving up four goals at home is disappointing, and I believe they scored first but I'm not certain.

Emory takes it in 2OT at Chicago. The Eagles have rebounded well after a poor start. Even last year, I felt that Chicago was a bit overrated, even though they won the UAA last year (5-0-2 conf. record) and impressively gave up just one conf. goal, as they lost five non-conference games to so-so competition before bowing out in the 2nd round to Wartburg. This year, the Maroons started well but definitely got lucky in their first few games, and then got hammered at home by Loras 4-0, which I think showed them they still have a long ways to go.

Tomorrow, WashU hosts Rochester. WashU with a good win at Wheaton (IL) earlier this year, and are sitting at 6-1-2. To their credit, Rochester seems to get results when they need to - Oneonta and Brandeis last year - but I think the Yellowjackets could be looking from the outside in at NCAAs this year, they've not played particularly well and already have three losses. Losing A. Swanger was big for them. Could see this one end in a score draw.

Big result for Rochester on the road drawing Wash. U 1-1. Fairly even game. UR needed a result and got one.

Tough defensive struggle.  Wash-U caught a break early when a header by Patrice Douge for a goal was disallowed in the first half due to a foul.  But, the Bears couldn't take advantage of it...allowed a goal in the 43rd minute to give Rochester a 1-0 halftime lead (Andrew Greenway).

Wash-U looked good to start the 2nd half, and Marc VandenBerg scored in the 57th minut to tie the game.  In the 2nd OT, Wash-U pushed defenders upfield to try and get the game-winner, to no avail.

A tie is not a bad thing now, but a team can't afford to collect too many and leave points on the table.  Wash-U has a tough 4-game road trip coming up:  Wednesday at Westminster, and UAA games against Emory, NYU, and Brandeis in the next two weekends.  That might determine whether the Bears can be in the UAA championship mix.

Good start to UAA play by Case.

While Kenyon would indeed have been a good litmus test, I believe that the upcoming match against 7-3 Oberlin will also provide a good metric as to the team's strength.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 04, 2015, 07:11:21 PM
Big result for Rochester on the road drawing Wash. U 1-1. Fairly even game. UR needed a result and got one.

U of R needs more results at this point. Ties are not going to cut it and they really need some Wins in the UAA to get a chance at a Pool C.

Brandeis v MIT mid-week is a very important game for MIT. They are 8-1-0 against weak competition and I have not seen them play this year but if they get a result v Brandeis they will be taken very seriously for a Pool C. At this point the NEWMAC is a one bid league with WPI having an outside chance at a Pool C if they do not win the NEWMAC tournament. I will be tuning into this game for sure

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 12:21:38 PM

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 04, 2015, 07:11:21 PM
Big result for Rochester on the road drawing Wash. U 1-1. Fairly even game. UR needed a result and got one.

U of R needs more results at this point. Ties are not going to cut it and they really need some Wins in the UAA to get a chance at a Pool C.

Agreed. But seems they are on the rise. Anytime you can go on the road and draw an 8-1-0 conference foe, who was ranked #14 in the latest poll btw, is a great result no matter what caliber team you are. Don't understand how that's anything but a good result?

Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on October 05, 2015, 12:55:47 AM
Good start to UAA play by Case.

While Kenyon would indeed have been a good litmus test, I also believe that the upcoming match against 7-3 Oberlin will also provide a good metric as to the team's strength.

Agree w/ you DagarmanSpartan.  Case is looking great this year, and as a Kenyon fan, I'd have loved to see them play as well.  Think it would have been a great match up and litmus test for both teams.  Disappointed that the game didn't go off as planned and highly doubt that it's gonna get rescheduled at this point.  Will be watching the CW vs. Oberlin and Brandeis games for sure.  Good luck to the Spartans on both matches.  Love to see them in the hunt this year.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 05, 2015, 01:54:31 PM

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 12:21:38 PM

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 04, 2015, 07:11:21 PM
Big result for Rochester on the road drawing Wash. U 1-1. Fairly even game. UR needed a result and got one.

U of R needs more results at this point. Ties are not going to cut it and they really need some Wins in the UAA to get a chance at a Pool C.

Agreed. But seems they are on the rise. Anytime you can go on the road and draw an 8-1-0 conference foe, who was ranked #14 in the latest poll btw, is a great result no matter what caliber team you are. Don't understand how that's anything but a good result?

Looking at Rochester's resume it does not look great IMO. The only results against POSSIBLE regional ranked teams are 0-0-2 against Lycoming and U of Washington. They beat Rutgers Newark but I do not think they will be regionally ranked unless they go on a win streak. The other wins are against weaker teams that will not be ranked. Now luckily they play in the UAA and can get multiple opportunities to get SOLID WINS.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 05, 2015, 01:54:31 PM
Agreed. But seems they are on the rise. Anytime you can go on the road and draw an 8-1-0 conference foe, who was ranked #14 in the latest poll btw, is a great result no matter what caliber team you are. Don't understand how that's anything but a good result?

I don't think there's any argument that it's a good result - you're absolutely right, a good road tie - but what he's saying, and I agree, is that Rochester can't keep racking up ties if they want to get into the Tournament. Furthermore, there's a good chance they lose at least one or two conference games, and - hypothetically speaking - four losses and three ties doesn't make for a great resume, especially when you don't have a major scalp over a ranked team on your resume yet.

Last year, Rochester beat SLU and Brandeis, and tied Oneonta, which was huge in getting them into NCAAs. They don't have a result like that this year, and while tying the #14 team on the road is certainly a good result, it's not of the same magnitude as the three I mentioned.

Hey, it all could change come UAA time, and they could pull off major wins that would get them into the tourney, but I haven't been overly impressed by Rochester this year, and two losses and three ties in early October doesn't make great reading as it stands.

All valid points and I agree.

2014: 10-5-4 Made NCAA's
2013: 15-3-2 Made NCAA's
2012: 10-4-4 Made NCAA's
2011: 9-5-2   Missed NCAA's---lost last 2 games. If they win 1 of those 2 they are probably in.
2010: 10-3-5 Made NCAA's

Since 2005 they have missed NCAA's once which was in 2011. They made NCAA's in 2006 with a 9-6-3 record (these are all records after NCAA's were over btw so technically an 8-5-3 record but you catch my drift). So historically if they win 10+ games it's probably a lock for them. If they get to 8/9 wins its a 50/50 chance they get in.

Last year they were 10-5-4...At this point last year they were 5-3-2...this year they are 4-2-3 at the exact same spot...was everybody on UR's case then about under performing? They have an easy non-conference game left in Moravian so say they are 5-2-3. That means they are a game better than last year's 2nd round NCAA tournament team that lost to F&M in PK's and probably should have won the game. They play a tough schedule and they are in a tough conference. They went 3-3-1 in conference last year. If they do that this year that puts them at 8-6-3 and I don't think they get in. But if they go 4-2-1 in conference and end up 9-4-4 at the end of the year I think they easily get in.

I get your point and they are valid and I agree but I also don't understand why they are getting so much criticism? There are good teams out side of the New England area ya know.  ;)

UAA is looking at 2 definite At-large berths and possibly 3 depending on how the UAA regular season plays out.

LOCKS...
1. Brandeis
2. Case Western

MORE WORK NEEDED...

3. Carnegie Mellon----That Messiah win is looking less and less important. They have a lot of wins against teams that will not be ranked. They need 4 good wins in the UAA.
4. Wash U.----------This is your ultimate bubble team. They have some good out of conference results but not quite enough. They need some KEY UAA wins.
5.Chicago, Emory and Rochester need a lot of work and MUST get 4-5 wins in UAA.

COOKED

NYU

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 05, 2015, 02:38:40 PM
I get your point and they are valid and I agree but I also don't understand why they are getting so much criticism? There are good teams out side of the New England area ya know.  ;)

You're definitely not wrong!

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people, particuarly NE folks, are annoyed that a team like Rochester can get into NCAAs with a lot of blemishes. There have been tongue-in-cheek accusations that Apple formerly being on the NCAA regional committee might have something to do with that. I'm split - on the one hand, I do feel that Rochester has benefited from some rather dubious selection decisions, but I also have seen some NESCAC teams make it in rather questionable fashion. Regardless, that might go some way to explaining why Rochester draws the ire and criticism of NE folks.

My criticism was more to do with the fact that they really don't have any big results this year on their resume, and a tie against WashU, while good, is not like last year when they beat SLU and Brandeis and tied Oneonta - all three of whom were ranked in the top 10 at the time of their games vs. Rochester. Two wins and a draw against three top 10 teams is no doubt impressive, so even though they lost four regular-season games, I can understand the committee choosing them last year.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 05, 2015, 02:38:40 PM
Last year they were 10-5-4...At this point last year they were 5-3-2...this year they are 4-2-3 at the exact same spot...was everybody on UR's case then about under performing?

Actually, yes! I think part of it had to do with the fact that they won the UAA the year before, but nonetheless people took notice. That said, people were definitely criticizing them. This year, I haven't been convinced by them, and I think they will stumble in conference.

I think you're right - 10 wins seems to be, historically, a lock for them, but less than that and they could well be out of the running. Not making it in 2011 was probably a good wake-up call, as they were certainly in the running until they lost their last two games. Regardless, as a UAA fan, I am well aware - and have long advocated - that there is more to the D3 soccer world outside of New England.  ;)

The UAA is always one of the most interesting conferences come tournament time for a few reasons. 1) UAA and NESCAC tend to also have the highest SOS so a loss or tie here and there isn't as drastic. 2) the regional differences of each team makes for an easier comparison of national rankings and increases Pool C births on a regional spectrum. 3) No playoff system makes the early UAA games just as important as the end of the season games

This upcoming weekend is going to answer a lot of the questions about who looks the best in the UAA:
Brandeis at Case Western - Second big test for Case this season (loss to Thomas More 3-2) and Brandeis' fourth (Loss 2-0 a Trinity TX, Win 1-0 at Tufts, Win vs. Carnegie 4-2). This give the advantage to Brandeis in my opinion, especially after figuring out their scoring problem (14GF, 6 in the last two games). If the Case/Kenyon game would have been played it might be a different story. I say 2-1 Brandeis.

Wash U at Emory - Emory is the hardest place to get a result in the UAA with it being the only none turf field and the longest commute. Both teams didn't have a great start to the season but seem to be clicking now with the conference games starting up. I could see this being a 0-0 tie or 1-0 in favor of Emory.

NYU at Carnegie - Carnegie is going to want to bounce back after their 4-2 loss at Brandeis and not having a game during the week. On the other end NYU's only chance of making the tournament at this point is to win the UAA. Carnegie is going to win this one though, 2-0 is Webb doesn't play. Any word on why he didn't play the second half of the Brandeis game? 3-0 if he does play.

Chicago at Rochester - Both of these teams are the biggest question marks to me. Many believe Chicago is overrated and previous discussions regarding the already five blemishes on Rochester's record. I was more impressed with Rochester this last weekend and would give them the advantage being at home. Look for a hard fought game with not a lot of shots. 1-0 Rochester, possibly in OT

Mr. Right,

I wouldn't say Case is a lock. Only good teams they played out of conference was a win vs Ohio Northern and the loss to TMC. I think they will get in but I wouldn't say lock yet. Other than that sounds about right.

Blooter,

I like your style! 

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 05, 2015, 04:20:00 PM
Mr. Right,

I wouldn't say Case is a lock. Only good teams they played out of conference was a win vs Ohio Northern and the loss to TMC. I think they will get in but I wouldn't say lock yet. Other than that sounds about right.

Blooter,

I like your style!

You are correct. I thought John Carroll was a good win but I did not realize they are 5-3-1 and even Ohio Northern is a total roller coaster this year. That Kenyon game NEEDS to get re-scheduled.  Case does have a UAA friendly schedule with only 2 road games left and one of them is at Chicago. That Brandeis game this week-end is a BIG one. That game vs Waynesburg who is 0-9-1 will drag that usual UAA schedule and SOS WAAYYY down. That is one of those lose-lose games for CASE.

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 04:46:04 PM

You are correct. I thought John Carroll was a good win but I did not realize they are 5-3-1 and even Ohio Northern is a total roller coaster this year. That Kenyon game NEEDS to get re-scheduled.  Case does have a UAA friendly schedule with only 2 road games left and one of them is at Chicago. That Brandeis game this week-end is a BIG one. That game vs Waynesburg who is 0-9-1 will drag that usual UAA schedule and SOS WAAYYY down. That is one of those lose-lose games for CASE.

I am highly doubtful that the Kenyon vs. Case game will be rescheduled.  Their respective schedules do not line up well for a rematch and I don't see either team wedging it in during their toughest in-conference games to make an out of conference game work.  Case has a surprisingly easy mid-season travel schedule for the UAA in-conference but then a 3 game away stint at Waynesburg, Chicago and WashU all within one week. 

How 'bout we do a little swapping and have Waynesburg play Allegheny and Kenyon play CW?!!!.  (I know, I know, this can't happen, but boy, it would have made a much better season all around.)  Perhaps the solution is for Kenyon to join the UAA in 2016.  Academically, it's strong enough and competitive enough to fit right in w/ UAA schools.  The NCAC will still have enough teams to be legit.  Bet OWU wouldn't object!  :)  Plus, then NCACNE and I can watch a few Lords games at home as a bonus!

Quote from: TennesseeJed on October 05, 2015, 07:55:03 PM

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 05, 2015, 04:46:04 PM

You are correct. I thought John Carroll was a good win but I did not realize they are 5-3-1 and even Ohio Northern is a total roller coaster this year. That Kenyon game NEEDS to get re-scheduled.  Case does have a UAA friendly schedule with only 2 road games left and one of them is at Chicago. That Brandeis game this week-end is a BIG one. That game vs Waynesburg who is 0-9-1 will drag that usual UAA schedule and SOS WAAYYY down. That is one of those lose-lose games for CASE.

I am highly doubtful that the Kenyon vs. Case game will be rescheduled.  Their respective schedules do not line up well for a rematch and I don't see either team wedging it in during their toughest in-conference games to make an out of conference game work.  Case has a surprisingly easy mid-season travel schedule for the UAA in-conference but then a 3 game away stint at Waynesburg, Chicago and WashU all within one week. 

How 'bout we do a little swapping and have Waynesburg play Allegheny and Kenyon play CW?!!!.  (I know, I know, this can't happen, but boy, it would have made a much better season all around.)  Perhaps the solution is for Kenyon to join the UAA in 2016.  Academically, it's strong enough and competitive enough to fit right in w/ UAA schools.  The NCAC will still have enough teams to be legit.  Bet OWU wouldn't object!  :)  Plus, then NCACNE and I can watch a few Lords games at home as a bonus!

Kenyon would actually fit better size-wise in the NESCAC (although the UAA travel tradition would fit better).  Like in NBA trades sometimes you need a 3rd participant.  We'll send Tufts to the UAA which would be a great fit and amp up the burgeoning rivalry with Brandeis even more and Hamilton can go to the NCAC (or back to the Liberty).  Wonder what is further -- Hamilton to DePauw or Wabash or Hamilton to Colby.  While we're at it, let's send Wesleyan down to the Centennial.

And yes, we are all in agreement that the solution is Case dropping the Waynesburg game.   Aside from proper manners and etiquette there must be contractual restrictions on these sorts of things, although, seriously, we're not talking about any difference in gate receipts.

Got my first negative karma today...that's depressing  :( :(

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 05, 2015, 09:09:49 PM
Got my first negative karma today...that's depressing  :( :(

Don't sweat it. Trust me, I would have +K'd you if I could for complimenting my style! ;D

Watched most of 2nd half and both OT's Brandeis v MIT 0-0...

What I noticed:

MIT--Organized in shape and defensively. They remind me of Skidmore a bit as they drop when they lose the ball and stay is shape very well. They are a physical team with size.(well I watched on video and they looked bigger than Brandeis). Their Back 4 are tough but WHACK everything near them. They are also a step slow. I will be interested to see how they do against WPI as I believe those 2 are the top dogs in NEWMAC. They had a couple sniffs and one dangerous chance that Brandeis keeper saved. I could not see #'s well but if they still have Bingham than they will be ok. However, they rely on their defense as they will not be able to score against good defensive teams unless on a set piece.

Brandeis has more speed and skill than MIT and are very organized defensively and have speed in the back. I like this team defensively but something seems to be lacking here offensively. They do not have that legit striker that can get them that winning goal in November IMO. I like Brandeis skill, speed, GK and backs. I just do not see a REAL goal scoring threat. Maybe I am wrong

Certainly don't disagree with you there, Bradley is not the answer and he was benched tonight, but the crazy thing is that MIT's midfield absolutely dominated Brandeis tonight. They looked far more threatening, and they won every second ball. Plus, MIT had much better chances – hit the bar, and probably should've scored on a shot in front.  Given that Brandeis doesn't have a target man, I would almost put two up top in Vieira and Chaput. Neither quite has the size or physicality to be a lone striker, but they both are good goalscorers and have excellent workrates. The Judges do have some big midfielders who could be late arriving scoring threats, so that's how it could work, but isolating one guy up top who isn't even a real striker isn't the answer I don't think.

I only saw the 2nd Half and OT.  Let's remember that Brandeis is in a 4-3-3 and MIT was in a strict 4-4-2 with the wing middies pinched on defense and that clogged up the middle for Brandeis. Brandeis had room on the flanks for the most part. MIT was extremely physical with Brandeis and it worked but they are not the most technical side. From what I remember they did not create that many dangerous chances except for 1 that the Brandeis GK made a nice save on. Brandeis had numerous corners in the 2nd Half that they could of capitalized on but did not. In any case, for Brandeis their backs are FAST which I like, MIT's back are big and physical but a step slow, WHICH I DO NOT LIKE. Had Brandeis gotten it out to the flanks which they did somewhat in the 2nd half and their wingers taking MIT's wingbacks on 1v1 and BEATING them forcing one of those CB's to come over and help then a nice low cross on the turf with #'s in the box should be finished. I did not see enough of that from Brandeis. I also feel Brandeis stays home a little to much on defense with their wing backs. They need those speedy wingbacks getting up into the attack to help create numbers.

Have to agree with Mr. Right and blooter's analysis of the MIT/Brandeis game and the scoring dilemma's in the Brandeis Offense. I was very surprised to see the midfield battled won by MIT as I thought the Brandes midfield had been dominant in every game I've watched this season. MIT's defense looked very strong as a whole. They were getting 10 men behind the ball and containing for most of the game, not jumping in or trying to make unnecessary tackles. Might be why they have 9 Shutouts on the season and only given up 3 goals (all to Roger Williams). MIT is a strong team that could potentially be a Sweet 16 team come tourney time. They do have the bulk of their big games left on their schedule with Wheaton, MA-Boston, WPI and they even threw non-conference end of the season game with Stevens on there. They're my favorite to win the NEWMAC.

The injuries to Evan Jastremski and Brandon Miskin are not helping Brandeis' case in trying to find a go to goal scorer. They have had great goal scorers in the past few years with Savonen, Soboff and Sam Ocel all graduating the last two seasons. With that being said someone is going to need to step up for them during the UAA games coming up on their schedule. Defense wins championships but you can't win without putting the ball in the net

HAHA...I have no idea how Stevens and MIT got that end of the year game in but it could be big for both. I DO NOT think MIT is a Sweet 16 team. I think they will be on the bubble to begin with.

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 07, 2015, 01:06:47 PM
HAHA...I have no idea how Stevens and MIT got that end of the year game in but it could be big for both. I DO NOT think MIT is a Sweet 16 team. I think they will be on the bubble to begin with.

I would have agreed with MIT as a "bubble team" before yesterday, although I think based on what I saw last night they have an excellent chance to win the NEWMAC if they can play like that against WPI. Stevens will be a great test. Then again, even with a great draw last night, they did lose to Roger Williams. Could have been just a one-time freak result, but I'd say it's a poor result giving the two teams' contrasting fortunes. Whether it's an indication of MIT's talent, I don't know.

Not sure about Brandeis at this point but I think they are, barring a major collapse, probably an NCAA team, and could get back to the Sweet 16 - they've gotten good draws at home the past few years and if they're in the top 20 then I think they'd host those rounds as well.

To be fair to MIT - even though Brandeis has been the better side in terms of ranking, etc. the last four years - the Engineers have given the Judges fits. 2011 was 1-0 until the last second and ended 2-0. 2012 was a 4-3 OT victory. 2013 was a 2-1 OT victory. 2014 was a 1-0 game. I certainly don't think MIT came for a draw last night, but a draw was probably the right result, maybe even MIT was slightly unlucky to not get the W.

I'd say if MIT gets to NCAAs they are potentially a Sweet 16 team, but probably more realistically Round of 32. Then again they lost to WNE the last time they made it (2013) in a game I surely thought they'd win, so it would all depend on the draw.

I did not see the 1st half so I cannot comment on MIT's motives. Coven has played MIT and Babson for YEARS and actually he plays the whole NEWMAC except Coast Guard I believe. If I were Coven that is a team I DO NOT need to be facing out of conference. Tufts is different as Tufts will allow you to play and Brandeis can play without either team sitting in defensively. Brandeis sees enough good teams especially this year that the MIT game if they are going to sit in and whack is a game I would consider dropping.

From what I know Brandeis-MIT play pretty much just for historic reasons. You're right that playing a team that just sits back and digs in isn't that helpful (From what I saw on the feed MIT was not doing this nearly as much as some teams do when they play Brandeis). The problem is if you drop them who do you replace them with? Brandeis swapping MIT for something like a Wentworth or a Colby-Sawyer really does nothing for them in terms of preparing for November. Of course it will help them pad their record and stats a bit but I'm pretty sure Coven and Gabe could care less about that. At this point they're trying to break through to that next level and win a national championship, and I think that the fact that this year they scheduled one of if not the hardest schedule in the country reflects that. If they end up missing the tournament because they scheduled too many hard games and not enough cupcakes, then they likely aren't a true contender anyways.

Well, tying Oberlin was a disappointment, but at least we didn't lose.  Let's hope for more conference wins!

UAA Pick'Em - Home Team listed first

Saturday 10/10
Rochester 0-1 Chicago - Neither team playing necessarily well at the moment. Rochester hasn't been playing well all season IMO
Emory 1-1 Wash U - If this game was played anywhere besides Emory I would give Wash U the nod
Carnegie 3-0 NYU - Easiest pick as NYU is having a down year and Carnegie is looking for bounce back in the UAA

Sunday 10/11
Case Western 0-1 Brandeis - Game of the Week - Identical 9-1-1 records both coming off non-conference ties mid-week. I don't see Case being able to Score on Brandeis but with Brandeis' scoring problems this could easily be a 0-0 draw

UR 1
Chicago 0

Emory 2
Was. U 3

CMU 3
NYU 1

Brandeis 1
CW 2

I forgot to mention I also noticed how Brandeis defended corners against MIT. They were zonal defending which I do not like as it can lead to defenders oleying the ball to the "supposed" next defender. Basically some teams can get complacent zoning, others find the opposite as man to man can cause problems if the wrong defender at the wrong time is caught napping. I did not know if Brandeis usually zones on defensive corners or if it was just for MIT's size difference. I plan on catching that Sunday UAA game if the stream from Case is watchable.

Quote from: NERevs127 on October 09, 2015, 10:34:17 AM
UAA Pick'Em - Home Team listed first

Saturday 10/10
Rochester 0-1 Chicago - Neither team playing necessarily well at the moment. Rochester hasn't been playing well all season IMO
Emory 1-1 Wash U - If this game was played anywhere besides Emory I would give Wash U the nod
Carnegie 3-0 NYU - Easiest pick as NYU is having a down year and Carnegie is looking for bounce back in the UAA

Sunday 10/11
Case Western 0-1 Brandeis - Game of the Week - Identical 9-1-1 records both coming off non-conference ties mid-week. I don't see Case being able to Score on Brandeis but with Brandeis' scoring problems this could easily be a 0-0 draw

This is hard as I have only seen Brandeis twice and CMU once but I'll guess:

Rochester v Chicago----0-1                                         I remember watching Chicago last year a couple times in the regular season but I missed their NCAA exit. I really liked the way they played Loras last year, even though they lost 3-2 they were attacking and attacking and along with Loras doing the same it was one of the more entertaining games I saw in 2014. Now I have no idea who graduated and who is injured or anything but 4 shutouts in the UAA last season is impressive.

Emory v Wash U-------0-0                                   Whenever I tune into an Emory game I usually come away disappointed at how over inflated their ranking is as the ranking never matches what I am watching on the field. The 1 game I was impressed with was in 2013 v Brandeis where I think they beat a Solid Brandeis side 2-0 on the heels of a Friday-Sunday for Brandeis. I have no clue about Wash U, but like Nescac there are teams that just tie to many games. This league has Wash U and Rochester.

CMU  v NYU------------2-0                                      I saw NYU once last season and was not impressed. I really like CMU last year but I missed the game v Brandeis this year.

Sunday:

Case v Brandeis-------0-0                                    I cannot properly predict this game as I have not seen Case this year. More on this one later

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 09, 2015, 01:03:10 PM

Quote from: NERevs127 on October 09, 2015, 10:34:17 AM
UAA Pick'Em - Home Team listed first

Saturday 10/10
Rochester 0-1 Chicago - Neither team playing necessarily well at the moment. Rochester hasn't been playing well all season IMO
Emory 1-1 Wash U - If this game was played anywhere besides Emory I would give Wash U the nod
Carnegie 3-0 NYU - Easiest pick as NYU is having a down year and Carnegie is looking for bounce back in the UAA

Sunday 10/11
Case Western 0-1 Brandeis - Game of the Week - Identical 9-1-1 records both coming off non-conference ties mid-week. I don't see Case being able to Score on Brandeis but with Brandeis' scoring problems this could easily be a 0-0 draw

This is hard as I have only seen Brandeis twice and CMU once but I'll guess:

Rochester v Chicago----0-1                                         I remember watching Chicago last year a couple times in the regular season but I missed their NCAA exit. I really liked the way they played Loras last year, even though they lost 3-2 they were attacking and attacking and along with Loras doing the same it was one of the more entertaining games I saw in 2014. Now I have no idea who graduated and who is injured or anything but 4 shutouts in the UAA last season is impressive.

Emory v Wash U-------0-0                                   Whenever I tune into an Emory game I usually come away disappointed at how over inflated their ranking is as the ranking never matches what I am watching on the field. The 1 game I was impressed with was in 2013 v Brandeis where I think they beat a Solid Brandeis side 2-0 on the heels of a Friday-Sunday for Brandeis. I have no clue about Wash U, but like Nescac there are teams that just tie to many games. This league has Wash U and Rochester.

CMU  v NYU------------2-0                                      I saw NYU once last season and was not impressed. I really like CMU last year but I missed the game v Brandeis this year.

Sunday:

Case v Brandeis-------0-0                                    I cannot properly predict this game as I have not seen Case this year. More on this one later

Rochester vs. Chicago:  1-0   I'm gonna buck the trend here and bet that UoR's momentum carries through this big game at home.  UC hasn't had a strong showing since North Park and RH in mid-Sept.

Emory vs. WashU (StL):  0-1  Really a close 50/50 pick'em as far as I'm concerned.  Emory HFA, but still giving slight nod to WashU.

CMU vs. NYU:  3-1                 Even though CMU hasn't played as strongly as they did earlier in the season, I think they'll be really hungry for a big W at home.  Hopefully the students will get out and help cheer them on...

Case W. vs. Brandeis:  1-2  I like Case a lot this year but I think Brandeis looks like the marginally stronger team in the limited video I've seen of both teams.  Giving slight nod to Judges even though on the road but wouldn't be surprised to eat my words on Sunday...this one could easily go either way.

Rochester 2 Chicago 1 1st OT -- UR takes a lot of shots here on this site during the season but the Yellow Jackets also never go away.  I think this is just the kind of game where they grind out a win to keep themselves on the bubble as we head to selection day.  Not an expert on Chicago but the Maroons strike me from a distance as a bit adrift with the potential to play themselves over the next few games off the bubble on the wrong side.

Wash U 1 Emory 0 -- For me, the toughest UAA game to call this week, but I think Wash U is good enough this year to find themselves on the right side of a couple of very tight games to ultimately win a bid.  Emory I believe is weaker than last year and even last year's edition had question marks about whether the Eagles were really a NCAA level squad.

CMU 2 NYU -- Very tempted to pick NYU in the upset here but I'll give CMU the benefit of the doubt since the Tartans are at home.  Just don't have a great feeling about CMU right now, wonder if there is some brewing dissension in the locker room, and I can see CMU being the team among the perceived UAA contenders that fades towards the finish line.

Case 2 Brandeis 1 2OT -- The biggest game of the day.  My head says Brandeis but the Judges have had an impressive run through a tough gauntlet of games and a bit of letdown seems inevitable. They certainly have the focus and determination to avoid a letdown, but nevertheless one would think they will lose a couple of UAA games or lose and draw one, and this seems like one of the best candidates for that.  This is a monster game for Case to prove their worth, especially after the home draw with Oberlin, and it's possible the pressure of the game on the Spartans will play right into Brandeis' hands.  That said, if Case is going to be a legitimate NCAA team then this is the game where I think they must have a very good showing.

And now I'm going to contradict myself and say that Brandeis, Wash U, and Rochester will end up being the 3 UAA teams in the tournament (with Rochester controversially nudging out a SUNYAC team and/or a 3rd team from the Liberty).

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 09, 2015, 08:15:13 PM
Rochester 2 Chicago 1 1st OT -- UR takes a lot of shots here on this site during the season but the Yellow Jackets also never go away.  I think this is just the kind of game where they grind out a win to keep themselves on the bubble as we head to selection day.  Not an expert on Chicago but the Maroons strike me from a distance as a bit adrift with the potential to play themselves over the next few games off the bubble on the wrong side.

Wash U 1 Emory 0 -- For me, the toughest UAA game to call this week, but I think Wash U is good enough this year to find themselves on the right side of a couple of very tight games to ultimately win a bid.  Emory I believe is weaker than last year and even last year's edition had question marks about whether the Eagles were really a NCAA level squad.

CMU 2 NYU -- Very tempted to pick NYU in the upset here but I'll give CMU the benefit of the doubt since the Tartans are at home.  Just don't have a great feeling about CMU right now, wonder if there is some brewing dissension in the locker room, and I can see CMU being the team among the perceived UAA contenders that fades towards the finish line.

Case 2 Brandeis 1 2OT -- The biggest game of the day.  My head says Brandeis but the Judges have had an impressive run through a tough gauntlet of games and a bit of letdown seems inevitable. They certainly have the focus and determination to avoid a letdown, but nevertheless one would think they will lose a couple of UAA games or lose and draw one, and this seems like one of the best candidates for that.  This is a monster game for Case to prove their worth, especially after the home draw with Oberlin, and it's possible the pressure of the game on the Spartans will play right into Brandeis' hands.  That said, if Case is going to be a legitimate NCAA team then this is the game where I think they must have a very good showing.

And now I'm going to contradict myself and say that Brandeis, Wash U, and Rochester will end up being the 3 UAA teams in the tournament (with Rochester controversially nudging out a SUNYAC team and/or a 3rd team from the Liberty).

Has Rochester done enough to be considered for NCAA's this early? Plenty of other teams at the moment look better on paper that will be looking for one of those spots. Or does the Rochester name hold that much merit when it comes to the tournament? They usually get the benefit of the doubt when it comes down to it in November. They will have to have a big showing down the stretch in conference to work their way up the Regional Ranking because even though the East is a mess, there are some teams that play some good soccer.

I'm guessing where UR will sit at the end of regular season, not at that moment, and I think that has to start tomorrow.

Up 1-0, UR is doing well to answer the critics, including myself. I've in the past thought that Rochester, aside from winning the UAA in 2013, usually rather dubiously gets in, although I think the selection committee has become a bit more fair regarding Rochester as they did miss out in 2011 going 9-5-2, a record that in previous years would have gotten them in. Granted, one year doesn't mean the trend has been bucked, but the fact that they didn't get in that year brought them back down to Earth - in terms of thinking they were a sure bet no matter what - I think.

Tonight, Rochester came out flying, hitting the bar and shortly later going up 1-0. They outshot Chicago 7-0 before the Maroons even had an effort on the board. Chicago is growing into the game but UR still appears to be the vastly superior side - although I'm going off of live stats.

Re: only watching the live stats - If anyone on the Rochester athletics staff is reading this, you're absolutely joking if you think I'm going to pay $$ to watch a broadcast that most other athletic departments do for free. Nice try.

Chicago vs. Rochester finishes 1-1. Probably a fair result, as both teams hit the woodwork and the shot count was relatively even at 16-13, even if UR started much stronger. Good result for Chicago on the road, not as great for Rochester who picked up a good point on the road last week at WashU but despite having just two losses they need to start winning games at home.

Quote from: blooter442 on October 10, 2015, 08:50:32 PM
...If anyone on the Rochester athletics staff is reading this, you're absolutely joking if you think I'm going to pay $$ to watch a broadcast that most other athletic departments do for free. Nice try.

+1 Blooter and Ditto that to other colleges and universities who are charging for video. Gimme a break. This isn't pro sports.  Support your teams and make it easy for your schools' fans to watch your students play! 

Quote from: TennesseeJed on October 11, 2015, 12:41:04 AM

Quote from: blooter442 on October 10, 2015, 08:50:32 PM
...If anyone on the Rochester athletics staff is reading this, you're absolutely joking if you think I'm going to pay $$ to watch a broadcast that most other athletic departments do for free. Nice try.

+1 Blooter and Ditto that to other colleges and universities who are charging for video. Gimme a break. This isn't pro sports.  Support your teams and make it easy for your schools' fans to watch your students play!

Would someone pay to the the Premier League guys call a match for us? I know I would. But this idea of charging for these DIII video streams is ridiculous. Believe me, I've watched hundreds of matches over the past 10 years and have never paid for a single one. And I don't think any of us should be asked to pay for this service when there are multiple free streaming services available. There are plenty of good ways to earn that marginal dollar for the program - but this ain't one of them.

Best video-casts I've seen, based on my limited memory and without any real analysis (!!)...William-Smith's women's matches from the past four years, Washington U.'s women's broadcasters from the past three years, and Messiah's men's from the past five years. I also am always amazed at the NCAA's broadcast of the FF; one guy who always sounds calm and yet keeps up with the pace.

Almost worse than the pay or you don't get watch at all schools is the growing trend for MANY schools to offer the 90 seconds preview in HD and then you have to pay to get HD or you can get the poor SD quality video for free.  Some schools are doing something quite savvy by forcing you to watch a brief marketing video about the school before the feed will start and/or a more extended advertisement for the school during halftime.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 11, 2015, 10:24:37 AM
Some schools are doing something quite savvy by forcing you to watch a brief marketing video about the school before the feed will start and/or a more extended advertisement for the school during halftime.

I don't mind that as much. Hey, if you're going to be there, what's an extra 30 seconds (before start) or few minutes (during half)? My big beef is having to pay for something that A. most schools do for free and B. is unreliable. Some might argue that paid video services are inherently more reliable, but just because you pay for it doesn't mean it's going to work - I've found paid video streams that just plain don't work.

I agree....When I saw what Vassar was doing I was taken back a little. Giving you a picture perfect HD game and then switching back to a horrible SD version 2 minutes later. It forced me to stop watching because I could not even make out numbers let alone faces.

Quote from: blooter442 on October 11, 2015, 10:53:04 AM

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 11, 2015, 10:24:37 AM
Some schools are doing something quite savvy by forcing you to watch a brief marketing video about the school before the feed will start and/or a more extended advertisement for the school during halftime.

I don't mind that as much. Hey, if you're going to be there, what's an extra 30 seconds (before start) or few minutes (during half)? My big beef is having to pay for something that A. most schools do for free and B. is unreliable. Some might argue that paid video services are inherently more reliable, but just because you pay for it doesn't mean it's going to work - I've found paid video streams that just plain don't work.

Yeah I don't mind the school plugs.  Usually like them actually.  It's the bait and switch on the HD vs SD I don't like.

Now I am looking forward to a much faster turf game between Case and Brandeis.

Good game going on but I had to mute it as the announcer is either really nervous / new or he is 2 cards short of a full deck. Another possibility was that he sounds like my alcoholic Uncle at Christmas time

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 11, 2015, 01:53:47 PM
Good game going on but I had to mute it as the announcer is either really nervous / new or he is 2 cards short of a full deck. Another possibility was that he sounds like my alcoholic Uncle at Christmas time

This guy is a pro compared to the Hamilton guy last weekend. 'Deis takes a 1-0 lead, probably just deserved on the balance of play, but Case could have had a PK right after.

I missed the goal...How Brandeis score?

Drama to start the 2nd Half in Cleveland

Didn't have a great view of it but it was a corner from the near side that was flicked on to the far touch line and then crossed back in across the six by a Brandeis player. Looked like the goalie came out and got a hand the cross but deflected it backwards a bit and it fell in by the far post. Not the prettiest goal ever but I'd say Brandeis has had a bit better of the play in the first half and a 1-0 score is probably deserved.

I gotta say this ref is really got to get this under control or there will be a fight

Great guess by Woodhouse but that was unstoppable...I haven't seen a ref lose control like this since my days in middle school

Great Header but where were Case defenders. That was a free header

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 11, 2015, 02:54:29 PM
Great guess by Woodhouse but that was unstoppable...I haven't seen a ref lose control like this since my days in middle school

I know I'm biased, but as an observer of both games, this pales in comparison to the reffing Kenyon vs. DePauw game...that was, hands down, one of the worst officiated games I've seen in many years...

Good effort by Case Western but just not quite enough to beat Brandeis.  The Judges are very physical.  Will need to be careful about giving up PKs with their physicality inside the box, but that style, along with very solid technical abilities, should serve them well if they can reach Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games again.

I didn't see the second half, as I was up flying – I'm working towards my pilot's license – but it sounded pretty chippy given that there were a mass of yellow cards and a PK for Case. Also, did I read correctly that there was a yellow for the coach?

Yes, Case coach got a yellow.  Apparently a Brandeis player did a two-handed clear shove to take a Case player down, announcer went crazy (well, crazier), and the coach lost his mind.  For about a 10-15 minute the ref really lost control with at least several calls going against Case.  Things settled down and the ref finally awarded a PK to Case, and then either Hernandez and/or Vieira went off and earned another yellow.  A Case player apparently (perhaps the one shoved earlier) earned a red at the end of the game.  I thought Lanahan got away with a couple of rough plays in the box, but in the end Case never looked like they actually were going to win the game and they would have been fortunate to get a draw.  Brandeis looks really battle-tested and determined.  When was the last a team went through the UAA unbeaten.  They get a chance for a couple of big home wins next weekend with Chicago and Wash U coming to Beantown.

Oomf. Good win for the Judges, but that's really a shame for both teams. For Brandeis, they need to sort their discipline issues out - they have, in the past, not been physical enough, and while I think they've addressed that area by having a bigger and more athletic lineup, it's important to remember that physicality is one thing and recklessness is another. I know that UAA games are tight, tense affairs that can often become chippy, but I can bet that Coven won't have been happy with that.

Chris Cvecko for Case is an excellent player.  Talented forward on the smaller side with good pace and can dance his way into dangerous spots.  Going to add him to the players to watch thread.

I know this isn't a NESCAC thread, but comparing forwards I saw more of Conrad's value today for Midd, but how many of his goals are off headers and/or set pieces?  I prefer the forwards like Cvecko who can be creative, get through 2 or 3 defenders, and still finish.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 11, 2015, 05:47:15 PM
I prefer the forwards like Cvecko who can be creative, get through 2 or 3 defenders, and still finish.

Agreed. This reminds me of the "Suarez vs. van Persie" debate - while the two were relatively even for a while IMHO, Suarez's creativity, vision, and finishing ability has made him a superior player to van Persie, who is a great finisher but requires others to create chances for him.

I have little sympathy for strikers who "don't get service" - while it is frustrating (as was the case with Conrad yesterday), I think the more impressive forwards are the ones who can make their own chances and finish, and not rely entirely on other people to make chances happen.

Next weekend should be really interesting, mostly because it will be the first weekend of UAA back-to-back fixtures - Friday PM and Sunday AM/early PM. That means good matchups, as always, but any team that goes 110 mins on Friday night might find itself tired come early Sunday. Brandeis and Emory are the only teams that are two-for-two so far, but the conference is still wide open at this point. Will make for great theater come November if it stays like this.

Here are the rankings for UAA Pick'Em

TenneeseeJed: 2
NERevs127: 2
Mid-Atlantic Fan: 1
Mr. Right: 1
NCAC New England: 1

Time to heat things up with the first Double-Header UAA weekend of the year!

UAA Pick'Em - 1st Double Header Weekend Edition (home team listed first)

Friday 10/16
Brandeis 2-0 Chicago
Carnegie 2-1 Rochester
NYU 0-2 Wash U
Case 2-1 OT Emory

Sunday 10/18
Brandeis 1-0 Wash U
Carnegie 1-1 Emory
NYU 0-1 Chicago
Case 0-1 Rochester - Upset Pick on tired legs for Case

Friday 10/16
Brandeis 2-1 Chicago
Carnegie 1-1 Rochester
NYU 1-3 Wash U
Case 2-2 Emory

Sunday 10/18
Brandeis 1-0 Wash U
Carnegie 2-0 Emory
NYU 0-2 Chicago
Case 1-2 Rochester

Friday 10/16
Brandeis 0-0 Chicago
Carnegie 0-0 Rochester
NYU 0-1 Wash U
Case 1-0 Emory

Sunday 10/18
Brandeis 1-0 Wash U
Carnegie 1-0 Emory
NYU 0-1 Chicago
Case 1-0 Rochester

Friday 10/16
Brandeis 0-0 Chicago
Carnegie 0-0 Rochester
NYU 0-0 Wash U
Case 0-0 Emory

Sunday 10/18
Brandeis 0-0 Wash U
Carnegie 0-0 Emory
NYU 0-0 Chicago
Case 0-0 Rochester

LOL....UAA a great league but like Nescac I found it hard to find goals also.

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 15, 2015, 01:32:15 PM
LOL....UAA a great league but like Nescac I found it hard to find goals also.

Only team that has shown to be able to score is Carnegie. They've also shown they can get scored on just as much

Friday 10/16
Brandeis 1-0 Chicago
Carnegie 1-1 Rochester
NYU 1-2 Wash U
Case 2-1 Emory

Sunday 10/18
Brandeis 1-0 Wash U
Carnegie 1-0 Emory
NYU 0-1 Chicago
Case 1-0 Rochester

Wash. U up 4-0 on NYU with 10 minutes to play.

All 4 goals coming after the 50th minute.

NYU getting out shot 31-5.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 16, 2015, 03:26:43 PM
Wash. U up 4-0 on NYU with 10 minutes to play.

Wow...That is a impressive result for Wash U..NYU clearly the weakest team in the UAA the past few seasons....Does anybody know why when NYU hosts on a Fri / Sun that they start the games at 1pm?  Seems odd to me... especially if kids are missing classes

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 16, 2015, 03:33:03 PM

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 16, 2015, 03:26:43 PM
Wash. U up 4-0 on NYU with 10 minutes to play.

Wow...That is a impressive result for Wash U..NYU clearly the weakest team in the UAA the past few seasons....Does anybody know why when NYU hosts on a Fri / Sun that they start the games at 1pm?  Seems odd to me... especially if kids are missing classes

The missing class thing isn't a factor as all the UAA schools travel Thursday. I do know that NYU does not play on their own field but instead use another school in Manhattan's field. May have to do with the early games. Maybe they don't have lights or its not in their field agreement to use the lights on the field.

Brandeis vs. Chicago is 0-0 about halfway through the first half. The Judges hit the post in the first two minutes on a tough-angle shot from Vieira, but since then Chicago has been dominant and had one cleared off the line. Maroons lead the stats - shots 4-1 and corners 6-0.

Anyway, Brandeis' midfield has been awful. Losing every second ball and getting completely overrun. In my time following them, I've rarely witnessed Brandeis lose the midfield battle, but it happened against MIT a week-and-a-half ago and it's happening again tonight. Can't understand why, either, as Ocel, Picard, and Hernandez are as good of a trio as you'll find in NE. When they keep the ball on the ground and play quick passes, they're great, but when they put the ball in the air it comes back to bite them. They're fortunate to still be level.

Only watched the final 20 minutes and what I saw from that, Brandeis escaped. Unlucky UChicago. However, good teams know how to survive around this time of year and the Judges did just that.

Brandeis steals it late 1-0 against Chicago. Jastremski with the goal with 5:01 left. They've missed his pace and it's great that he's back. After being dominated early on, the Judges grew into the game and kept it as tight as they could at the back and took advantage with 5' remaining. Bonin made an outstanding save, point-blank from a header off a free-kick earlier, but Chicago by far the more threatening side despite being outshot 11-10. SOG was 5-4 Maroons. Each team had one cleared off the line. After a poor first half, Brandeis' midfield improved vastly second half, although I maintain they were lucky to go into half at 0-0.

Quote from: Wisco21 on October 16, 2015, 08:25:43 PM
Only watched the final 20 minutes and what I saw from that, Brandeis escaped. Unlucky UChicago. However, good teams know how to survive around this time of year and the Judges did just that.

Agreed. A real smash-and-grab for Brandeis given Chicago's play, but the Judges would find this karma after the Maroons nicked a lucky 1-0 last year in the Windy City. They may be profligate at times and it may cause me and many others extensive anxiety, but the Judges have gotten it done time and time again this season and are 12-1-1 and 3-0 in the UAA - only one tie off the pace of last year at this time, 13-1. You've got to win the cliffhangers to be successful, and they did it once again tonight.

CMU up 2-0 at half vs UR.

Quote from: Wisco21 on October 16, 2015, 08:25:43 PM
Only watched the final 20 minutes and what I saw from that, Brandeis escaped. Unlucky UChicago. However, good teams know how to survive around this time of year and the Judges did just that.

As blooter sort of said, the problem for other teams is that Brandeis keeps escaping.  Yes, they could get burned eventually, but they are in a great position and have a bid virtually already locked up (how many other teams can say that today?), and instead of growing internal anxiety because of the escapes they only seem to build more confidence and a feeling that they are not supposed to lose.  Amazing this run of success Coven is having so late in his career (with noted help from Margolis).  Might have to re-adjust the coaching poll I just tackled!

Now CMU 2 UR 1 with 30+ minutes left.  Anyone want to bet this ends 2-2 or 3-2 UR in OT?  Rochester just NEVER goes away even though we predict their demise virtually every week.

I forgot this game is at CMU, as they played at CMU last year, and some really intense stuff happened on the sideline, and UR came from behind to steal the game.  That was a crushing defeat for CMU in a game it looked like they had and no doubt absolutely critical in keeping UR alive for a bid.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 08:55:31 PM
Now CMU 2 UR 1 with 30+ minutes left.  Anyone want to bet this ends 2-2 or 3-2 UR in OT?  Rochester just NEVER goes away even though we predict their demise virtually every week.

Certainly wouldn't be unheard of. Perhaps that's why they're the Yellowjackets - they don't lie down and are a pain in the [you know what] for everyone they come up against because of their persistence and omnipotence.

I'm not a Rochester fan - their dubious entries into the Tourney have been very fishy at times IMHO - but one thing I have to give them credit for is that they don't quit. Ever. They never know when they're beaten and will come at you until the final whistle. That said, they've given up two equalizers in UAA play when having a 1-0 second half lead, so they need to start closing games out because 1 point is one thing, 3 is another.

All tied at 2-2.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 16, 2015, 09:16:40 PM
All tied at 2-2.

Crazy thing is that Carnegie actually looks much more threatening and better in possession. But defense has been their Achilles' heel at times this season. Can't keep giving Rochester corners, as that's where both of their goals have come from - they look toothless in normal play.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 08:55:31 PM
I forgot this game is at CMU, as they played at CMU last year, and some really intense stuff happened on the sideline, and UR came from behind to steal the game.  That was a crushing defeat for CMU in a game it looked like they had and no doubt absolutely critical in keeping UR alive for a bid.

Just went to check the box score for that game and it appears that (TEAM) got a red card, so I'm assuming Apple? Can you clarify? I thought he was much more professional than to accumulate a red as a coach, but I guess everyone has their days.

blooter, I don't remember exactly and it was so chaotic I don't think I knew exactly at the time.  I did post about it....could look for that....I was watching online and you could hear a bunch of stuff on audio.  Can't recall if something on the field but think I vaguely recall that something was going on with CMU fans and UR bench and that someone (Apple???) was yelling for someone to go get the CMU AD to the field.  So don't necessarily think the red was for Apple specifically.  But it was a HUGE game and UR stole it...tied it late I think and then won it very late. 

Quote from: blooter442 on October 16, 2015, 09:24:19 PM

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 16, 2015, 09:16:40 PM
All tied at 2-2.

Crazy thing is that Carnegie actually looks much more threatening and better in possession. But defense has been their Achilles' heel at times this season. Can't keep giving Rochester corners, as that's where both of their goals have come from - they look toothless in normal play.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 08:55:31 PM
I forgot this game is at CMU, as they played at CMU last year, and some really intense stuff happened on the sideline, and UR came from behind to steal the game.  That was a crushing defeat for CMU in a game it looked like they had and no doubt absolutely critical in keeping UR alive for a bid.

Just went to check the box score for that game and it appears that (TEAM) got a red card, so I'm assuming Apple? Can you clarify? I thought he was much more professional than to accumulate a red as a coach, but I guess everyone has their days.

It's a tale of 2 halves. All CMU in first and all UR in second. I don't think CMU looks near as threatening as UR since the half time break.

2-2 final

Carnegie almost steals it in 2OT, but a draw probably the fair result.

Good fightback by Rochester, but that's five ties in mid-October and no in-conference wins yet. To get to 10 wins, they have to win all six of their remaining games. Can they do it? I'm hoping not, but Apple is a good coach and he'll have them ready for crunch time.

Quote from: blooter442 on October 16, 2015, 10:00:29 PM
Carnegie almost steals it in 2OT, but a draw probably the fair result.

Good fightback by Rochester, but that's five ties in mid-October and no in-conference wins yet. To get to 10 wins, they have to win all six of their remaining games. Can they do it? I'm hoping not, but Apple is a good coach and he'll have them ready for crunch time.

Last year they got in at 9-4-4, beating CMU and Case in last 2 UAA games.  Then beat Salisbury easily as I recall and took very highly ranked F&M to PKs in round of 32.

That's huge win for Case, 2-0 over Emory.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 10:04:00 PM
Last year they got in at 9-4-4, beating CMU and Case in last 2 UAA games.  Then beat Salisbury easily as I recall and took very highly ranked F&M to PKs in round of 32.

Fair, but - and maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on results vs. ranked - they haven't yet gotten a big result this year like they did last year. Last season, they won 2 big games against SLU and Brandeis and tied Oneonta, so I can understand how they got in, but for them to win four, even five games is asking a lot especially considering A. Moravian aside, they're all conference games, so likely to be more challenging and B. they've tied their last three. Wouldn't be surprised to see them go on a run and make it, but hard to see at this point in my book.

Edit: I was actually wrong - they can't get to 10 regular-season wins - they'll need to go clean in order to get to 9 wins, as they only have five games left on the schedule (I previously misread and counted the Carnegie game, as I looked at their schedule and it didn't have a result listed next to it.)

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 10:06:00 PM
That's huge win for Case, 2-0 over Emory.

WOW. Didn't see that one coming.

I'm not saying UR is going to get in.  You're right.  Not looking promising.  But they are definitely one of those teams that you thought was dead that shows up at the end of the movie.  Sort of like I won't believe Messiah isn't going to get the AQ until I see the last second go off the clock with the Falcons on the losing end, and just as I knew OWU would be back front and center when they were in the poll about disappointing teams with the hardest road to climb.

And I think that's probably why both UR and CMU went after scoring so hard in the OTs.  BOTH needed 3 points real bad, as 3 points are not going to be easy to come by in the UAA aside from NYU.  And considering that CMU was up 2-0, at home, that's a tough result for them.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 10:16:48 PM
I'm not saying UR is going to get in.  You're right.  Not looking promising.  But they are definitely one of those teams that you thought was dead that shows up at the end of the movie.  Sort of like I won't believe Messiah isn't going to get the AQ until I see the last second go off the clock with the Falcons on the losing end, and just as I knew OWU would be back front and center when they were in the poll about disappointing teams with the hardest road to climb.

I'll agree with that. Tomorrow is the halfway point for UAA fixtures, and with only seven league games as opposed to the NESCAC's 10 (and no playoff finals), every single one counts. Can't remember if it was you or not, NCAC, but someone said getting an early 1-0 lead in the UAA is like having a 3-0 lead in any other game. Given the number of tight, tense affairs that there are (most UAA games are) I'd say you're right. Would be curious to know the percentage of games that end in one-goal decisions.

On another note, I think Bonin of Chicago is the best goalkeeper I've seen in a while in the UAA. Seen him a few times and he's impressed, and now I understand why he was 2nd Team All-UAA as a freshman. Not the tallest goalkeeper at 5-11 but he commands his box as good as any. Last night he made a phenomenal point-blank save from a Chaput header. Couldn't believe it was in. As far as the goal, he couldn't have done anything about it. His team has overachieved IMHO in the past two years but when you've got a good GK back there you'll be in every game.

Quote from: blooter442 on October 16, 2015, 10:09:15 PM

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 10:04:00 PM
Last year they got in at 9-4-4, beating CMU and Case in last 2 UAA games.  Then beat Salisbury easily as I recall and took very highly ranked F&M to PKs in round of 32.

Fair, but - and maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on results vs. ranked - they haven't yet gotten a big result this year like they did last year. Last season, they won 2 big games against SLU and Brandeis and tied Oneonta, so I can understand how they got in, but for them to win four, even five games is asking a lot especially considering A. Moravian aside, they're all conference games, so likely to be more challenging and B. they've tied their last three. Wouldn't be surprised to see them go on a run and make it, but hard to see at this point in my book.

Edit: I was actually wrong - they can't get to 10 regular-season wins - they'll need to go clean in order to get to 9 wins, as they only have five games left on the schedule (I previously misread and counted the Carnegie game, as I looked at their schedule and it didn't have a result listed next to it.)

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 16, 2015, 10:06:00 PM
That's huge win for Case, 2-0 over Emory.

WOW. Didn't see that one coming.

It would also to be hard to let a UR team with only 2 losses not in the tournament no matter how many ties they end up with. Say they go 8-2-6....would be tough not to count them in with only two losses and playing in the UAA.

Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 17, 2015, 01:59:30 PM
It would also to be hard to let a UR team with only 2 losses not in the tournament no matter how many ties they end up with. Say they go 8-2-6....would be tough not to count them in with only two losses and playing in the UAA.

Hypothetically speaking I agree, but I don't think it's very realistic to expect that they go unbeaten the rest of the season. My prediction is that they drop at least one of those games, and even if they were to win three, tie one, and lose one, that puts them at 7-3-7, which is not very impressive. It's important to remember that, despite their past, Rochester did miss out on NCAAs in 2011 when they blew it by losing their last two games, so they are by no means an undisputed pick every year.

I'm thinking the best course of action is to shelve this debate until November. :)

Didn't Brockport St get a Pool C last year with 6 draws?

Yes, but they missed the year before with a similar 11-2-5 record. Guess it depends on the year - think that big 2014 win over SLU probably had something to do with it.

Anyway, tomorrow (actually, technically today I guess) - Brandeis vs. WashU should be a great game. Despite being ranked at one point this season, I feel like WashU has flown under the radar. The Bears are a good, balanced team, and were on the wrong end of three tough OT losses in the UAA last year, so they'll be hungry. Coming into its game against Brandeis tomorrow hot off the heels of a 4-0 romping of NYU. From what I was told, WashU pulled most of its starters after taking control, while Brandeis was lucky to get away with a 1-0 win in a game Chicago dominated. That said, Brandeis has gotten away with wins in countless close games this year - 11 of its 12 wins have been by a goal - and while part of that is due to offensive inefficiency, the other part is that they just know how to grind out wins. All the pieces are there for a great matchup.

Fun facts:
* Brandeis has won the last two meetings (2012 & 2014) in St. Louis - the 2012 victory was Brandeis' first over WashU in 10 years. However, the last two games in Waltham, the Judges have drawn (2013) and lost (2011), so WashU will hope that their road success continues.
* WashU is 6-1 on the road this year, significantly better than its 2-0-3 home record.

NCAA thoughts on UAA teams.....

Locks:

Brandeis
Case Western

Very good Possibility:

Wash U


Bubble:

Carnegie Mellon



Long shots:

Emory---They need to go clean and even then it is a long shot

Chicago---"same as Emory"

OUT:

NYU and Rochester

Agree with Mr.Right.  And I believe CMU's last 3 UAA games are on the road.

I believe CMU MUST win all 3 and then they should be all set.

Here are the rankings for UAA Pick'Em

TenneeseeJed: 8
NERevs127: 7
Mr. Right: 6
Mid-Atlantic Fan: 5
Lastguyoffthebench: 2
NCAC New England: 1

If I understand the UAA and NCAA systems correctly, UAA teams are eligible for one AQ spot in pool A, which they award to the regular season champs, as opposed to a tourney like most others.  Then, each remaining team is eligible for at-large (Pool C) spots within their respective region (e.g., CMU and CW in Great Lakes, UR and NYU in East, etc.).  Is that accurate?

What's the highest number of UAA teams that have been in an NCAA tourney simultaneously?

I know the 2012 tournament had 5 teams from the UAA; without checking all of the other years I think there may have been another year or two when they also got 5 bids. I don't think they've ever gotten 6.

Quote from: nw_ds on October 19, 2015, 09:40:19 PM
I know the 2012 tournament had 5 teams from the UAA; without checking all of the other years I think there may have been another year or two when they also got 5 bids. I don't think they've ever gotten 6.

Without looking it up, that squares with my memory as well.  I don't think they ever got 6, but 5 at least once, but I think another couple times.

2013 looks like it was 3 (CMU, Brandeis and UR) and 2014 was 4 (Chicago (AQ), Brandeis, UR and Emory).

How many bids are we thinking here folks? 2 or 3?

Brandeis is a lock.

Case is a yes for me.

That's pretty much it.

Chicago needs tons of help.
Wash. U quietly still around.
CMU overrated.

UR and Emory are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for all the wrong reasons.

NYU should have stayed home.

Brandeis is a lock...

Case, Wash U and Chicago are all regionally ranked right now so they all have a chance...


CMU I thought should have been ranked but if they finish clean they might get a chance.

Brandeis and Case are certainly in barring a collapse by Case.

Wouldn't Wash U have a pretty strong case, assuming they finish well, since they would have a strong overall record, probably second or third in the UAA if they beat Chicago and Case, and two top 10 wins both on the road against Brandeis and Wheaton(Ill) (at least back when they were a contender for the championship). They have some poor ties and one poor loss, but statistically they showed their dominance. It seems to me that more people have been counting them out yet they have surprised people this season. Last year, they very well could've been in this position with a little more luck.

What is everyone's thoughts for POY for UAA?  From the few games I have seen, I would assume Josh Ocel for Brandeis has to be a top candidate, however I may have a slight bias towards Brandeis.

Quote from: NERevs127 on October 19, 2015, 08:45:07 PM
Here are the rankings for UAA Pick'Em

TenneeseeJed: 8
NERevs127: 7
Mr. Right: 6
Mid-Atlantic Fan: 5
Lastguyoffthebench: 2
NCAC New England: 1

What's the next batch of games?

UAA Pick'Em

Friday 10/30
Case Western @ Chicago
Brandeis @ Emory
NYU @ Rochester
Carnegie @ Wash U

Sunday 11/1
Brandeis @ Rochester
NYU @ Emory
Carnegie @ Chicago
Case @ Wash U

UAA Pick'Em

Friday 10/30
1 Case Western @ 2 Chicago  I like Case this year but on the road in Chicago is tough.
2 Brandeis @ 0 Emory
1 NYU @ 3 Rochester
1 Carnegie @ 1 Wash U

Sunday 11/1
1 Brandeis @ 1 Rochester
0 NYU @ 1 Emory
2 Carnegie @ 3 Chicago
2 Case @ 2 Wash U

UAA Pick'Em

Friday 10/30
Case Western @ Chicago        1-1
Brandeis @  Emory                 0-1
NYU @ Rochester                  0-2
Carnegie @ Wash U                2-1

Sunday 11/1
Brandeis @  Rochester            2-0
NYU @ Emory                         0-4
Carnegie @  Chicago               0-1
Case @  Wash U                     0-2

Friday 10/30
Case Western 0-0 Chicago
Brandeis 0-1 Emory - Fun fact. Brandeis has never gotten a result at Emory
NYU 0-3 Rochester
Carnegie 1-0 Wash U

Sunday 11/1
Brandeis 1-0 Rochester
NYU 0-3 Emory
Carnegie 0-1 Chicago
Case 0-0 Wash U

Friday 10/30

CWRU 1-0 Chicago
Brandeis 1-1 Emory
NYU 1-3 Rochester
CMU 1-2 WashU

Sunday

Brandeis 2-1 Rochester
NYU 0-2 Emory
CMU 1-2 Chicago
CWRU 2-1 WashU

This is the biggest weekend for this league.

NYU---------Eliminated


Rochester------- 99% Eliminated as they are 5-3-5 and even if they beat NYU, Brandeis and Emory their SOS will not fluctuate much because Brandeis helps and NYU drags it down. They have a .620 SOS that will most likely stay there. Their RvR is currently 1-2-3 and if they beat Emory and Brandeis would move to 3-2-3 with a .620 SOS and a 8-3-5 record. That is commendable and hard to ignore. Mind you crazier things have happened but I think they have 1 to many blemishes.


Chicago--------Bubble but they are on the wrong side of it currently. They are 9-4-2 with a nice .595 SOS and their RvR is 2-3-0. All that being said IMO they control their own destiny. They finish with Case, CMU and Wash U all at home. If they win those 3 games or even go 2-0-1 they are IN. They would be 11-4-3 with a SOS that will rise to .620 and a RvR of 5-3-0 if Case and CMU stay ranked which they might not. A lot of if's but they get 3 wins they are IN.


Carnegie Mellon----65% Eliminated....They have a lot of work to do and must rely on other regions and leagues to go their way. They are currently ranked #6 in Great Lakes. They are 9-2-3 with a SOS .546 and a RvR of 1-2-0. That is a WEAK SOS for a UAA team. Anyway, they finish with at Case, at Wash U and at Chicago all ranked teams and that SOS will most likely bump to .580. So if they beat all 3 they would finish 12-2-3 with a RvR of 3-2-0 because if they beat Case, Case would not still be ranked. 12-2-3 with a .575-.580 SOS and a RvR of 3-2-0 is hard to ignore. Like I said it is possible but very unlikely.


Emory------------80% Eliminated.....Currently they sit at 8-4-2 with a .585 SOS and a 2-2-0 RvR. Ho-hum.  Their problem is they finish with Brandeis, NYU and Rochester all at home. The only game that helps them is Brandeis. That SOS will not move much even if they win all 3 games and finish 11-4-2 with a .585 SOS and a 3-2-0 RvR they will be given a quick glance by the committee but ultimely fall short.



Wash U-----------IN unless they collapse down the stretch.  They are currently 10-2-3 with a .566 SOS and a 2-0-0 RvR. They finish v CMU, v Case and at Chicago. They also sit at the #1 Regionally ranked team in a watered down Central region. That SOS will rise to about .585 or maybe .590. I do not believe all 3 teams of Case, CMU and Chicago will finish ranked at the end because they would have all beaten up on each other. Even if Wash U goes 1-0-2 or 1-2-0 or 1-1-1 they will be IN. Say they go 1-1-1 they would finish 11-3-4 with a .585 SOS and a 3-1-1 RvR...That will be good enough IMO. More important is if they happen to go 3-0-0 and finish 13-2-3 they will be hosting for RD64/RD 32. Their problem is if they host usually you see the 1 or 2 West region teams heading there and that means a very tough RD32 game.



Case Western Reserve------------ELIMINATED unless they WIN the UAA....They MUST win the damn UAA so they kind of control their own destiny but need Brandeis to slip up.  They sit at 12-2-1 with an impressive 3-1-0 in the UAA....What is unimpressive is a .503 SOS which KILLS them. Those cupcake games in the beginning of the year have absolutely killed the SOS. So they sit at 12-2-1 with a .503 SOS and a 1-2-0 RvR....Not going to cut it anyway you slice it. They do finish at Chicago, at Wash U and v CMU. No doubt the SOS will rise to maybe .545 or a little less but that will not be good enough. If they go 3-0-0 to finish with a sitting at 15-2-1 that looks very good at a quick glance. However, the RvR at 1-2-0 would move to 3-2-0 as all 3 will not finished ranked. So 15-2-1 with a .545 SOS and 3-2-0 RvR will be given a glance by the committee and tossed as there are to many teams with better resumes. However, finishing 6-1-0 in the UAA would be impressive but they would need Brandeis to lose or draw a game as they lose that tiebreaker. NOTE---Case winning the UAA would absolutely steal a Pool C from someone else.



Brandeis----------IN......This resume is extremely impressive. 13-2-1 and 3-1-0 in the UAA with the BEST SOS in the country at .644 and a RvR at 4-2-1.  That mid-week game v a 3-11 Lasell team will drag the SOS down plus finishing at Rochester, at Emory and v NYU will also kind of drag the SOS down to maybe .620. They could go 0-3-0 and still get a Pool C finishing at 13-5-1 a .620 SOS and a RvR of 4-3-1..It would be playing with fire but they would most likely get IN. More importantly if they finish 3-0-0 and end up 16-2-1 with a .620 SOS and a 5-2-1 they POSSIBLY could host until the Final 4. Doubtful but possible. I would imagine they would LOVE that as they play so well on that home carpet. Easliy going to host RD64/32 and most likely will be on the move for RD16/RD8 at Amherst or Montclair St or somewhere.

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 29, 2015, 03:03:11 PM
This is the biggest weekend for this league.

NYU---------Eliminated


Rochester------- 99% Eliminated as they are 5-3-5 and even if they beat NYU, Brandeis and Emory their SOS will not fluctuate much because Brandeis helps and NYU drags it down. They have a .620 SOS that will most likely stay there. Their RvR is currently 1-2-3 and if they beat Emory and Brandeis would move to 3-2-3 with a .620 SOS and a 8-3-5 record. That is commendable and hard to ignore. Mind you crazier things have happened but I think they have 1 to many blemishes.


Chicago--------Bubble but they are on the wrong side of it currently. They are 9-4-2 with a nice .595 SOS and their RvR is 2-3-0. All that being said IMO they control their own destiny. They finish with Case, CMU and Wash U all at home. If they win those 3 games or even go 2-0-1 they are IN. They would be 11-4-3 with a SOS that will rise to .620 and a RvR of 5-3-0 if Case and CMU stay ranked which they might not. A lot of if's but they get 3 wins they are IN.


Carnegie Mellon----65% Eliminated....They have a lot of work to do and must rely on other regions and leagues to go their way. They are currently ranked #6 in Great Lakes. They are 9-2-3 with a SOS .546 and a RvR of 1-2-0. That is a WEAK SOS for a UAA team. Anyway, they finish with at Case, at Wash U and at Chicago all ranked teams and that SOS will most likely bump to .580. So if they beat all 3 they would finish 12-2-3 with a RvR of 3-2-0 because if they beat Case, Case would not still be ranked. 12-2-3 with a .575-.580 SOS and a RvR of 3-2-0 is hard to ignore. Like I said it is possible but very unlikely.


Emory------------80% Eliminated.....Currently they sit at 8-4-2 with a .585 SOS and a 2-2-0 RvR. Ho-hum.  Their problem is they finish with Brandeis, NYU and Rochester all at home. The only game that helps them is Brandeis. That SOS will not move much even if they win all 3 games and finish 11-4-2 with a .585 SOS and a 3-2-0 RvR they will be given a quick glance by the committee but ultimely fall short.



Wash U-----------IN unless they collapse down the stretch.  They are currently 10-2-3 with a .566 SOS and a 2-0-0 RvR. They finish v CMU, v Case and at Chicago. They also sit at the #1 Regionally ranked team in a watered down Central region. That SOS will rise to about .585 or maybe .590. I do not believe all 3 teams of Case, CMU and Chicago will finish ranked at the end because they would have all beaten up on each other. Even if Wash U goes 1-0-2 or 1-2-0 or 1-1-1 they will be IN. Say they go 1-1-1 they would finish 11-3-4 with a .585 SOS and a 3-1-1 RvR...That will be good enough IMO. More important is if they happen to go 3-0-0 and finish 13-2-3 they will be hosting for RD64/RD 32. Their problem is if they host usually you see the 1 or 2 West region teams heading there and that means a very tough RD32 game.



Case Western Reserve------------ELIMINATED unless they WIN the UAA....They MUST win the damn UAA so they kind of control their own destiny but need Brandeis to slip up.  They sit at 12-2-1 with an impressive 3-1-0 in the UAA....What is unimpressive is a .503 SOS which KILLS them. Those cupcake games in the beginning of the year have absolutely killed the SOS. So they sit at 12-2-1 with a .503 SOS and a 1-2-0 RvR....Not going to cut it anyway you slice it. They do finish at Chicago, at Wash U and v CMU. No doubt the SOS will rise to maybe .545 or a little less but that will not be good enough. If they go 3-0-0 to finish with a sitting at 15-2-1 that looks very good at a quick glance. However, the RvR at 1-2-0 would move to 3-2-0 as all 3 will not finished ranked. So 15-2-1 with a .545 SOS and 3-2-0 RvR will be given a glance by the committee and tossed as there are to many teams with better resumes. However, finishing 6-1-0 in the UAA would be impressive but they would need Brandeis to lose or draw a game as they lose that tiebreaker. NOTE---Case winning the UAA would absolutely steal a Pool C from someone else.



Brandeis----------IN......This resume is extremely impressive. 13-2-1 and 3-1-0 in the UAA with the BEST SOS in the country at .644 and a RvR at 4-2-1.  That mid-week game v a 3-11 Lasell team will drag the SOS down plus finishing at Rochester, at Emory and v NYU will also kind of drag the SOS down to maybe .620. They could go 0-3-0 and still get a Pool C finishing at 13-5-1 a .620 SOS and a RvR of 4-3-1..It would be playing with fire but they would most likely get IN. More importantly if they finish 3-0-0 and end up 16-2-1 with a .620 SOS and a 5-2-1 they POSSIBLY could host until the Final 4. Doubtful but possible. I would imagine they would LOVE that as they play so well on that home carpet. Easliy going to host RD64/32 and most likely will be on the move for RD16/RD8 at Amherst or Montclair St or somewhere.

+K Mr. Right well done. So what is your threshold for NCAA resumes if you were on the committee? What would you look for in terms as a base winning %, SOS, RvR, etc?

The above question is for Mr. Right but I will chime in too as I know he appreciates my opinion now that we talk soccer and not about Skidmore, pine trees and hospital bills!  ;D

My threshold would be .545 SOS, RvR need at least 1 win to even get a glance---.500 or better then for RvR, and winning % depends but I would go more off a record say 4 losses or less and you have my attention. 5 is borderline and I wouldn't want to put you in unless you have a very favorable SOS and RvR, 6+ you have no shot in my book.

That's why I think teams like Newark are DONE unless they win the NJAC and they might not even make playoffs. If you don't make playoffs in your conference then you don't deserve an NCAA bid in my book and I think that's fair no?   

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 29, 2015, 03:51:44 PM
The above question is for Mr. Right but I will chime in too as I know he appreciates my opinion now that we talk soccer and not about Skidmore, pine trees and hospital bills!  ;D

My threshold would be .545 SOS, RvR need at least 1 win to even get a glance---.500 or better then for RvR, and winning % depends but I would go more off a record say 4 losses or less and you have my attention. 5 is borderline and I wouldn't want to put you in unless you have a very favorable SOS and RvR, 6+ you have no shot in my book.

That's why I think teams like Newark are DONE unless they win the NJAC and they might not even make playoffs. If you don't make playoffs in your conference then you don't deserve an NCAA bid in my book and I think that's fair no?

I agree with some of this answer and disagree with other parts.

Agree---"If you do not make the playoffs in your conference then you do not deserve a bid". I am all for that and I might remember once or twice it happening but maybe FW would know better then me. It is usually a definite NO SHOT. That is why these leagues (the Liberty League and Centennial) I believe hurt themselves with these smaller tournaments. It gives a team like RPI no chance even though they deserve a chance because of their earlier work. It also hurts a league like the Centennial because some years they have a chance at 3 Pool C's and by making your league tournament smaller you take away more chances to bump your SOS and RvR.

DisAgree----The threshold is tougher to determine sometimes..There are always 1-2 teams that get in and make you scratch your head.  In 2013 we all know Williams got IN with 6 losses and Brandeis got IN with 5 losses. Why? Because of their RvR and the # of games they played Ranked opponents and both were top 5 in SOS. In 2011 Williams was left out with a 9-4-3 Record but the HIGHEST SOS in the country but also were 1-4-2 v Ranked. IMO it is better to play at least 6 ranked teams and go .500 or better against them. So a Rutgers Newark at 13-6-1 is most likely to many losses unless they tie and lose on PK's in the NJAC final. What I like about Newark is the SOS will be maybe .585-.590 BUT they will have played including NJAC tournament(if they get in) 9-10 games against Ranked opponents with right now a 4-3-1 record which could be 6-3-2 RvR assuming they make the NJAC playoffs and tie PK's in Final but lose the PK's...I mean 6 wins against ranked teams IS VERY hard to ignore and also playing 10 ranked teams is very hard to ignore. All that being said if you dissect their schedule they lost 1 to many games to the Top 4 in the NJAC.

This is also why the Mid-Atlantic region is concerning. I just broke down the UAA and compare their "bubble" teams to the Mid-Atlantic's bubble teams...It's not close. Etown, Eastern and even Lycoming just cannot compare in RvR and SOS. Haverford and F&M obviously do compare nicely. Now Dickinson is a bit different they could jump up if they finish strong. They are 9-3-3 with a .566 SOS but only a 0-2-1 RvR. However, they still get to play F&M and most likely could get to play 2 more ranked teams in the Centennial tournament. So not only will that SOS jump they have a chance to get some wins against Ranked opponents. So if they finish 12-3-4 and lose ok PK's in Centennial Final they will have a .585 SOS but possibly 3 wins v ranked. Mind you I do not believe Dickinson will do this but my point being is THEY have a CHANCE to do this while Lycoming DOES not. Lycoming cannot grab anymore ranked wins unless they beat Messiah but then they would have won the AQ anyway. So this is where the advantage in playing a top league with ranked teams can really help you at the end of the year. That is why that match that Lycoming had to cancel with Oneonta really hurts the SOS and a possible win that would have most likely gotten them off the bubble. This is the problem with playing in a weaker league you must try to properly schedule every year. Teams in top leagues do not need to worry as much about scheduling.

If Rochester were to go clean, then I'll amend my earlier posts and say they'd be in a good position for a Pool C bid. But like Mr.Right said, I think they have one too many blemishes - three losses and five ties doesn't make for great reading - and they've made hard work of their UAA schedule so far. After their slow start to the season, I think Apple would have hoped for more than three ties and a loss in conference. The YellowJackets were no doubt under pressure to get results from both Carnegie AND Case, and while they got a tie at Carnegie they weren't able to get the win and then lost at Case. Also, the fact that they've not been regionally ranked either week is quite telling, and currently it seems they're in the doghouse.

They'll be up for this weekend. They beat Brandeis with, in my opinion, two absolute BS goals last year at home - one was a cross from the right that got shanked into the far top-corner, and the other was a corner kick that went straight in. Brandeis didn't play well, but Rochester got lucky and I doubt they're that lucky this time around. The fact that they haven't won a UAA game so far this year is telling (although I think that'll change against NYU.) They finished with a 3-3-1 conference record in 2011 and missed NCAAs for the first time in years, but if they were to go 3-1-3 this year (from their current 0-1-3) they might have a case. That said, they'll have to beat a defensively solid Brandeis team at home and Emory away, which is a tough place to go. And even then, it might not be enough.

Yeah I think we both agree that Rochester is NOT going to go a clean 3-0-0 but IF they did somehow and finish 8-3-5 with a .620 SOS and 3-2-3 RvR not only will they be ranked after this week-end they could be #5. That SOS and 3 wins and 8 games v ranked IMO is very hard to ignore but just one to many ties and/or losses

Mr.Right, I think your prediction on Case may be a little grim, but maybe not.  I will say you were one of the first, if not the first, to say that Case and Kenyon had to play that game and went so far as to basically guarantee that they would find a way to play.

Couple of points.  I joked, but joked seriously about Case cancelling the Waynesburg game and playing Kenyon instead.  That alone would count for a huge 28 game swing in their SoS, and that's BEFORE counting the multiplier for playing Kenyon away.  Case's SoS WILL go up like you indicated, and one has to think that Denison and/or DePauw will drop and CMU also may drop.  Denison is at risk of not even making the NCAC tourney.  Anyway, Case may need TMC and RHIT to win their AQs, but if they do, the last bid out of Great Lakes could go to the winner of the final day game between CMU and Case AT Case.

One other note that may expound on in the Great Lakes thread.  Coach Brown was the last regional cmte chair and their have been suggestions about better planning.  Case's coach, a very well trained (one would think) OWU grad, is NOW the cmte chair.  What would be the chance of the exiting and current cmte chairs both messing up so badly.  There is some bad luck there too.  A mere 2 weeks ago you and I both considered Case a near-lock, and they haven't lost a game since then.  Bottom line is I think it will be very difficult to keep Case out if they do decently these last 3 games.  There is no question in my mind that their overall resume trumps Denison, RHIT and CMU as of today, and maybe DePauw as well.  The 4 best teams in Great Lakes are Kenyon, TMC, OWU and Case.

I also don't think even 3-0-0 gets UR in.  Probably gets them ranked in the last secret poll but not high enough to get a bid.

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 29, 2015, 06:58:39 PM
I also don't think even 3-0-0 gets UR in.  Probably gets them ranked in the last secret poll but not high enough to get a bid.

I have to disagree. Looking at both resumes side by side if both teams go a clean 3-0-0 to finish. I like Rochester's better.


Rochester------8-3-5   .620 SOS and 3-2-3 RvR

Case-----------15-2-1  .540 SOS and 2-2-0 RvR


Let me BE CLEAR...Neither team realistically will go clean. Also, besides Wash U we cannot be sure CMU and Chicago will still be ranked if they beat them. That Kenyon v Case game which was cancelled in early October HAD TO BE replayed for both schools. If Case coach is the Great Lakes Chair he should of known this looking at his schedule. I don't care if you had to play a mid-week back to back just play the damn game. Ridiculous. Play neutral. Whatever get it in. Also, I have only seen Case once this year against Brandeis and they are NCAA tournament quality but they would be out in the RD64/RD32 w/o question. A decent side and you are right about their #2 who is a great player. Maybe I caught them on an off day but I saw NCAA tournament quality not a team with any chance of getting to a NCAA Final 4. None of this matters because quantitatively Case does not have the resume for a Pool C but they do have a realistic chance of winning the UAA if Brandeis can get a draw and they can go 3-0-0 so they are at the doorstep with the door slightly ajar.



     

Quote from: Mr.Right on October 29, 2015, 07:32:54 PM

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 29, 2015, 06:58:39 PM
I also don't think even 3-0-0 gets UR in.  Probably gets them ranked in the last secret poll but not high enough to get a bid.

I have to disagree. Looking at both resumes side by side if both teams go a clean 3-0-0 to finish. I like Rochester's better.


Rochester------8-3-5   .620 SOS and 3-2-3 RvR

Case-----------15-2-1  .540 SOS and 2-2-0 RvR


Let me BE CLEAR...Neither team realistically will go clean. Also, besides Wash U we cannot be sure CMU and Chicago will still be ranked if they beat them. That Kenyon v Case game which was cancelled in early October HAD TO BE replayed for both schools. If Case coach is the Great Lakes Chair he should of known this looking at his schedule. I don't care if you had to play a mid-week back to back just play the damn game. Ridiculous. Play neutral. Whatever get it in. Also, I have only seen Case once this year against Brandeis and they are NCAA tournament quality but they would be out in the RD64/RD32 w/o question. A decent side and you are right about their #2 who is a great player. Maybe I caught them on an off day but I saw NCAA tournament quality not a team with any chance of getting to a NCAA Final 4. None of this matters because quantitatively Case does not have the resume for a Pool C but they do have a realistic chance of winning the UAA if Brandeis can get a draw and they can go 3-0-0 so they are at the doorstep with the door slightly ajar.

We'll just have to agree to disagree a little on this one.  The RvR would be close but 15-2-1 looks much, much better than 8-3-5.  Remember, we're not talking about a 15-2-1 PS-Behrend or Roger Williams.  These are both UAA teams.  Also, remember that Case and UR are fighting for rank in different regions.  I see a scenario where Case gets themselves up to the 2nd or 3rd at large spot out of Great Lakes if the other teams mentioned get their AQs as expected.  Where I do agree with you is that Case is a very solid, good team and not a great team....about a round of 32 team although you can always have fortune and win a game you shouldn't 1-0 or advance in PKs (as Rochester almost did last year against F&M).

Good stuff from all of the above. Thanks for the input Mr. Right. Big weekend for all the teams nationwide.

Hmmm..what game to watch tonight in the UAA.

Well I am not paying to watch Rochester play NYU so that is out.

Since the others all have an hour difference we can take a peek at all of them

Brandeis v Emory a good game with both teams keeping it on the carpet, however neither team with to many chances.

Brandeis playing so well with some nice combinations but they cannot get anything off in the final 3rd. Viera working his ass off.

Case loses to Chicago on PK in 1st OT.  Ref initially waved off the play and then changed his mind and awarded PK.  Case furious but looked like a legit PK foul and foul occurred on exact same kind of play in same spot as PK given up in OT last year to Brandeis.  Now Case really is in deep, deep trouble. 

Well, I only tuned in for a couple of minutes of the 2h and stuck around just long enough to see Chicago take Case 1-0 on a PK in OT.  Tough way to lose for CWRU.  Didn't see game so no real commentary but stats made it look like a very evenly matched game during regulation play.  A bit surprised Cvecko didn't get any shots off if stats are right.

When does CMU play Wash. U? Is that game tonight?

I watched whole game.  Very even typical UAA game.  Very few good chances.  Both sides had a couple of them.  Case will be haunted by giving up the touchline off a corner kick.  Kid dribbled after short pass right up touchline into box.  Cvecko seemed to play pretty well but never got any clean looks.  Chicago will feel bolstered by this one and two wins this weekend would be huge for the Maroons obviously.

MAF, yes, probably already underway.

Correction:  Wash U game has not started as women's game went 2OT.  Men warming up and should be starting momentarily.

I don't think I've ever seen a ref change his mind for a PK, especially with no intervention or consultation with an AR.  I'm sure that was partly why Case was so upset, but also just a brutal way to lose such an important game.  Desai buried the PK. 

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 30, 2015, 08:48:52 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a ref change his mind for a PK, especially with no intervention or consultation with an AR.  I'm sure that was partly why Case was so upset, but also just a brutal way to lose such an important game.  Desai buried the PK.

It looked more to me like the AR actually made the call.  He was waving his flag like crazy.  I missed the ref changing his mind, but I never saw him do much of anything until he made what seemed like a late call to me...odd.  Looked like a legit call to me, but obviously video not the best angle/look...

I was rooting for CWRU, so disappointed for them that they gave the game away this way...

That finishes CASE season and Chicago getting on the right side of the bubble with that win. Still some work to do though.

I must say Emory v Brandeis a very well played game and fun to watch 1st Half. Emory looks better than I thought they would be. They have some skill and are countering Brandeis well

Quote from: TennesseeJed on October 30, 2015, 08:52:41 PM

Quote from: NCAC New England on October 30, 2015, 08:48:52 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a ref change his mind for a PK, especially with no intervention or consultation with an AR.  I'm sure that was partly why Case was so upset, but also just a brutal way to lose such an important game.  Desai buried the PK.

It looked more to me like the AR actually made the call.  He was waving his flag like crazy.  I missed the ref changing his mind, but I never saw him do much of anything until he made what seemed like a late call to me...odd.  Looked like a legit call to me, but obviously video not the best angle/look...

I was rooting for CWRU, so disappointed for them that they gave the game away this way...

You may be right about the AR.  The ref may have seen that but he made no movement towards the AR and certainly did not consult.  I saw the ref do the clear or safe sign with both arms like a baseball umpire at home base and then a few seconds later pointed to the spot.  I have no doubt it was a PK, though.  Really uncanny how similar it was to the Brandeis game last year, and Savonen buried that one just like Desai did tonight.

Now 1-1 Wash U and CMU.

Okay so Brandeis AQ, CMU pool C, winner of Washington vs Chicago the final game of the season for another pool C.

Case isn't dead just yet.   Sure, they will fall off NCAA Rankings, but can make up some serious ground with games at Washington and vs CMU...

Emory and Rochester just about done

Credit to CMU.  I thought they were over-ranked and overrated, and likely to sputter out with little more than a whimper.  They went down a goal, away to a confident, well-positioned Wash U team, and walked out of St Louis with a 3-1 win.  A CMU win Sunday at Chicago might be enough to get the Maroons a bid.  A CMU win and a Case loss Sunday at Wash U no doubt would seal Case's fate, although our Mr.Right believes Case's fate already is sealed.  If CMU wins Sunday AND next week at Case that might spell trouble for 1 or 2 NCAC squads, especially if Thomas More doesn't get its conference AQ.  Wash U also now may be under some pressure to get a result.  The Sunday clashes should be compelling, including Brandeis making the long trip from Atlanta to Rochester (no direct flights for that one I'm sure).  The Judges should be very safe at this point but will be motivated to increase their odds for NCAA hosting for at least the first weekend.

Difficult to see the UAA not getting at least 3 bids.  Only Brandeis looks safe.  Next Saturday Wash U closes out at Chicago, and CMU finishes at Case.  Would be fascinating theater if both of those games were for the other two UAA bids.

Very surprised with the CMU result, but I still believe they are overrated.

Brandeis defeats Rochester for the first time since 2010 to win its second UAA title in three years. Judges could claim the title outright if WashU and Case does not finish in Case's favor.

Huge win for Brandeis, who has had some rotten luck with Rochester the last two years - losing in the rain 3-2 at home in 2013, and losing at Rochester to two absolute fluke goals last year. This team isn't as talented as last year's side, nor would I argue as talented as the 2012 side that won the UAA title. But to navigate its toughest UAA weekend of the season - going to Emory, where it had lost every time in 14 tries, and getting the victory, and then going to Rochester, who was fighting for their lives, and get a win against a pesky, energetic team for the first time in half a decade - speaks to their character. Especially in the latter game - as in many other meetings, Brandeis scored first and Rochester tied it shortly thereafter. I was convinced the Judges were done and that fate would show itself again, but the Judges surprised me by getting the late winner and holding on.

It still boggles my mind that this is the same team that struggled to get by Lasell last week, but then again Chicago won the UAA with a non-conference record of 6-5 last year, so stranger things have happened. Regardless, the character and know-how of the team has been impressive, and regardless of their goalscoring problems - which will need to be addressed going into the postseason - the fact that they've managed to win so many games isn't a fluke. I'm always one to focus on my own team's weaknesses, and perhaps be a bit too pragmatic when going into games - I'd have predicted Brandeis to lose both games this weekend, as the Judges have not had luck at either of these grounds in years past - but they've proved me wrong time and time again. And I have to say, I'm quite OK with it.

Apologies for the homer post, but this was a big weekend for the Judges.

CMU wins again 1-0, despite only 2 shots the whole game.  Shots 13 to 2 in favor of Chicago.  CMU scored early off set piece/corner and must have just packed it in for 80 minutes.  CMU 2-0-0 for the weekend, both away, and now in very good shape.

Brandeis wins the UAA title outright after WashU's 1-0 2OT victory over Case.

Another brutal, just brutal loss for Case.  Lost in OT yesterday on a PK and lose in double OT 1-0 to Wash U today.  I like this Case team a lot, but with Cvecko being marked and double-marked Case just doesn't have enough offense. 

Case could not produce a goal in nearly 200 minutes of play.

TenneeseeJed: 10
NERevs127: 10
Mr. Right: 10
Mid-Atlantic Fan: 8
Lastguyoffthebench: 2
NCAC New England: 1

Quote from: NCAC New England on November 01, 2015, 05:26:07 PM
Another brutal, just brutal loss for Case.  Lost in OT yesterday on a PK and lose in double OT 1-0 to Wash U today.  I like this Case team a lot, but with Cvecko being marked and double-marked Case just doesn't have enough offense. 

Case could not produce a goal in nearly 200 minutes of play.

I agree with you.  I was really pulling for CWRU, as you could see in my picks in this thread...they cost me 2 W's!   :-\  Tough way for season to end, but it just seems to be the UAA conf. way...  I think that Brandeis deserved to win the UAA the way they played this season.  Congrats to the Judges.  Well played!

P.s., I had about left CMU for dead this season...they really turned things around this weekend with 2 big W's.  They too cost me big in the picks here...  :-\   

I would have given the game to CW last week, but I'm guessing it's gonna be a white knuckles ride next Saturday in Cleveland.

Quote from: TennesseeJed on November 01, 2015, 07:04:01 PM

Quote from: NCAC New England on November 01, 2015, 05:26:07 PM
Another brutal, just brutal loss for Case.  Lost in OT yesterday on a PK and lose in double OT 1-0 to Wash U today.  I like this Case team a lot, but with Cvecko being marked and double-marked Case just doesn't have enough offense. 

Case could not produce a goal in nearly 200 minutes of play.

I agree with you.  I was really pulling for CWRU, as you could see in my picks in this thread...they cost me 2 W's!   :-\  Tough way for season to end, but it just seems to be the UAA conf. way...  I think that Brandeis deserved to win the UAA the way they played this season.  Congrats to the Judges.  Well played!

P.s., I had about left CMU for dead this season...they really turned things around this weekend with 2 big W's.  They too cost me big in the picks here...  :-\   

I would have given the game to CW last week, but I'm guessing it's gonna be a white knuckles ride next Saturday in Cleveland.

It will be interesting to see if Case will turn up for the game Saturday, likely believing that they are playing for little more than pride and after what had to be an extremely deflating weekend.

BTW, I forgot to mention that the Wash U goal was scored off a nice pass and then a great run and even better finish from point blank range on an angle by a freshman that gave the Case GK no chance.

Slipping under the radar: it's worth a mention that NYU won at Emory yesterday 1-0. This is an NYU side that was 5-10 and hadn't won a UAA game yet all year, so for them to get a big win at an Emory side that was reeling from a loss to Brandeis on Friday is a big deal. Definitely not enough to make any significant change in the Violets' fortune, but I thought it was worth noting that they're definitely aiming to finish the season strong.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 02, 2015, 09:27:42 AM
Slipping under the radar: it's worth a mention that NYU won at Emory yesterday 1-0. This is an NYU side that was 5-10 and hadn't won a UAA game yet all year, so for them to get a big win at an Emory side that was reeling from a loss to Brandeis on Friday is a big deal. Definitely not enough to make any significant change in the Violets' fortune, but I thought it was worth noting that they're definitely aiming to finish the season strong.

OR, this suggests Emory may have packed it in after the loss on Friday knowing they were done.

I was shocked at that result but you may be right. I watched the Emory v Brandeis game on Friday and both teams looked good. I was pleasantly surporised with the way Emory played and while they did not have quite as many chances as Brandeis they possessed very well.

Carnegie deserves some credit for getting to 11-2-3 at this point. From being down 1-0 against Emory with five minutes left at which point they seemed completely done, to going on a very tough road trip and finishing 2-0, is an impressive turnaround. Even more notable is that they went 1-0 down against WashU but came back to win 3-1, and made their one big chance count at a Chicago stadium where road victories are hard to come by. We've constantly derided them and said they're overrated and that they've shipped goals, but the fact of the matter is that they're 11-2-3 - 3-1-2 in conference - and could well finish second in the conference.

WashU is a very good, cohesive side. They were good value for their 2-0 win at Brandeis, and I was impressed by the way they kept Brandeis from establishing any rhythm. They rolled on the road at NYU, which might be more of an indication of NYU's plight rather than WashU's skill, but you still have to get the result away from home. They'll be a little upset that they managed to throw away a second-half lead against Carnegie, but WashU is one of those teams that I feel always plays better away from home and that could work to their advantage should they get a bid to NCAAs.

Things very well could change, but assuming the UAA gets two Pool C bids I think these two are it.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 03, 2015, 12:33:53 PM
Carnegie deserves some credit for getting to 11-2-3 at this point...    We've constantly derided them and said they're overrated and that they've shipped goals, but the fact of the matter is that they're 11-2-3 - 3-1-2 in conference - and could well finish second in the conference.

Agree with you 100% Blooter.

It is quite possible that CMU jumps to #2 or more likely #3 today because of those 2 wins in Great Lakes.

With the UAA resources at hand and the quality of education, you'd think a UAA school would at least be in the Elite 8 every single year...

Does traveling throughout the season really hurt these teams time come November?   

Brandeis has been stepping up to the plate the past few years...Now they need to take a bite and get their butts in the Final 4. They are not as good as last year but I feel like I have been repeating that phrase for alot of teams this year. If they can stay on that carpet until the Final 4 they would be my pick but it will be a very tough road...This will not be a 2006 NYU route

Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 04, 2015, 12:10:28 PM
Does traveling throughout the season really hurt these teams time come November?

Doubt it.

What I think it has to do with is that UAA teams have long been athletic and skilled teams but not necessarily "scrappy." This ends up hurting them when they get to NCAAs. Think about how many tournament games, particularly Sweet 16 and Elite 8 games, are complete 1-0 scrapfests. Very few are open, technically-flowing games that would suit a UAA team's strengths. In other words, UAA teams play well enough technically, but just can't get the job done when push comes to shove.

My own opinion is that I think NESCAC teams are more successful in the NCAA tourney because they see that physical, scrappy nature week-in, week-out, and while UAA teams may be technically better, a scrappy NESCAC side - e.g. Bowdoin 2010 - is better suited to the game as the season wears on than a UAA side that is technically superior yet more lightweight. Tufts, and maybe Williams, is really the only NESCAC side I've seen in the last five years be successful with a technical and not completely direct approach, but their athleticism and scrappiness had something to do with them winning a national title.

It is pretty telling that Brandeis is the only UAA school to have won an NCAA National Championship, and that was back in 1976. In fact, Brandeis has probably become the scrappiest side in the UAA in the last two years, grinding out results in tough games, particularly last year against Tufts, Bowdoin, and Amherst (PKs), and this year against...well, pretty much every team! This is pretty ironic considering they were long pegged as being lightweight, but they've brought in more big, athletic players who are both technically good and physically able to handle the demands of a rough game. I've heard from people associated with the Judges that Tufts and Rochester are two of the toughest sides that they play year-in, year-out, so Rochester is probably the UAA's best historical example of a scrappy, athletic team.

One argument that I don't think I've seen mentioned about why UAA teams historically don't seem to make as many deep runs in the tournament is that because the conference is so geographically spread out, the different UAA teams are usually sent to different regions. This actually decreases the chances of any one of them making a deep run because UAA teams don't ever meet each other in the tournament. Contrast that with other conferences like NESCAC where you will often find multiple teams from the NESCAC in the same region. Naturally that will increase the chances of any one of these NESCAC schools to make a deep run because you will see NCAA matchups between NESCAC schools in the tournament, which in essence gives a "free" pass to a NESCAC team on to the next round. UAA teams never get these free passes of one of their teams moving on to the next round because they never meet each other in the tournament. Not saying there is no validity to other arguments, but just something to think about.

Do not give me any crap about Nescac teams and a "free pass"

Maybe 2010 Bowdoin but that is it.

2009- Williams went thru RPI, York and CNU

2012 and 2013 both Williams and Amherst met in the elite 8 but they both dispatched of top Centennial, LL and UAA squads.

2014-Tufts ---They didnt play 1 Nescac side.

Quote from: nw_ds on November 04, 2015, 01:17:28 PM
One argument that I don't think I've seen mentioned about why UAA teams historically don't seem to make as many deep runs in the tournament is that because the conference is so geographically spread out, the different UAA teams are usually sent to different regions. This actually decreases the chances of any one of them making a deep run because UAA teams don't ever meet each other in the tournament. Contrast that with other conferences like NESCAC where you will often find multiple teams from the NESCAC in the same region. Naturally that will increase the chances of any one of these NESCAC schools to make a deep run because you will see NCAA matchups between NESCAC schools in the tournament, which in essence gives a "free" pass to a NESCAC team on to the next round. UAA teams never get these free passes of one of their teams moving on to the next round because they never meet each other in the tournament. Not saying there is no validity to other arguments, but just something to think about.

Can't say I agree with the "free pass" argument, and I personally think that UAA teams just haven't been scrappy enough (which you can read about in my previous post.) However, I do think that nw_ds raises a good point about all of the NESCACs being in the same region. When an entire conference is in the same part of the bracket, it can (not does, can) increase the chances that that particular conference is represented further down the road, at least mathematically.

Think about this: While certain teams are favored, the mathematical odds of your team winning a game (whether in regulation, overtime, or PKs) is at 50 percent. You have to win four games to get to the Final Four. That means that any one team has, mathematically, a 1/16 chance (1/2 ^ 4 = 1/16) of getting to the Final Four. If, say, four teams from the same conference are spread out in each region, the odds of a team reaching the Final Four remain at 1/16. But if you were to have all four teams in the same region, then there is a 1/4 chance that one of those four teams gets all the way to the Final Four. Three teams = 3/16. Two teams = 1/8. The number of teams selected from any given conference varies year-on-year, but when you load all of the teams from one conference into one quadrant of the bracket, as opposed to putting one in each quadrant, the mathematical odds that one of those teams gets to the Final Four goes up.

Obviously, there are times where UAA teams will get put in the same quadrant of the bracket, and regardless of the mathematical odds or the opponent you have to win those games, so this is not a perfect hypothetical situation. Additionally, soccer is not a sport where mathematical odds determine outcomes - there are significant intangibles. However, what cannot be argued is that a 25 percent chance is significantly better (four times, in fact) than a 6.25 percent chance, so I think there is some merit to nw_ds' point.

Regardless, the NESCAC teams have gotten it done when the UAA teams haven't, and that's what it comes down to.

Blooter I think we actually agree on this as this is basically what I was saying. To be clear, I'm not trying to suggest that any individual teams from the NESCAC (or other conferences I was just using NESCAC as an example) get free passes through in the tournament, only that it's a fact that when two teams from the same conference play each other one of them has to advance, so essentially the conference does get a pass on one of its teams to the next round. Like you said its more a mathematical argument than anything else.

Quote from: nw_ds on November 04, 2015, 02:04:09 PM
Like you said its more a mathematical argument than anything else.

Right. I still think it has more to do with the fact that UAA teams haven't been able to grind it out in close contests as well as NESCAC teams have been able to do, but there is a mathematical component to it that perhaps does have some merit.

Yep, you won't get any arguments from me as to that. It seems like more often than not UAA teams are knocked out in the first or second round to teams that I would personally expect them to beat.

Brandeis (AQ), Carnegie, and WashU all number one in each of their respective regions. Those, ladies and gentlemen, are the three NCAA bids.

...unless Chicago beats WashU, the world falls apart, and somehow bid #19 goes to them. Ain't gonna happen.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 04, 2015, 04:46:06 PM
Brandeis (AQ), Carnegie, and WashU all number one in each of their respective regions. Those, ladies and gentlemen, are the three NCAA bids.

...unless Chicago beats WashU, the world falls apart, and somehow bid #19 goes to them. Ain't gonna happen.

Chicago always has one of the top 10/top 5 SOS in the country so this may help them out if they can get a result against Wash U. What's more exciting is that we might have 3 UAA schools host the first two rounds of the tournament as Brandeis, Carnegie and Wash U are all #1 ranked in their regions. Brandeis might get home field all the way up to the Final Four is NYU doesn't bring their SOS down too far and they get the Win.

UAA Pick'Em - Last round of the year
Home team listed second

Rochester 1-0 Emory
NYU 0-2 Brandeis
Wash U 0-1 Chicago
Carnegie 2-1 Case

Rochester 1-0 Emory
NYU 0-3 Brandeis
Wash U 1-1 Chicago
Carnegie 1-0 Case

Quote from: NERevs127 on November 05, 2015, 11:08:10 AM
Chicago always has one of the top 10/top 5 SOS in the country so this may help them out if they can get a result against Wash U. What's more exciting is that we might have 3 UAA schools host the first two rounds of the tournament as Brandeis, Carnegie and Wash U are all #1 ranked in their regions. Brandeis might get home field all the way up to the Final Four is NYU doesn't bring their SOS down too far and they get the Win.

Good point, and perhaps I was being hyperbolic in my initial point. Chicago is a good team - they got robbed this year against Brandeis, but I think Brandeis would have felt that it was karmic revenge (not saying I 100% believe in that stuff, but still) for Chicago winning the UAA last year against a more talented Brandeis side that went a very good 5-2 in conference (Chicago was 5-0-2 in conference, but 11-5-2 on the season, while Brandeis was 17-2.) Still, even though they're not top 5/10 material IMHO as they were ranked earlier this year, Chicago is legit, and a win over the #1 ranked team in their region could be telling, and if nothing else would certainly raise its profile.

The way I see it, Amherst still has a great shot of hosting to the Final Four (as Bowdoin did in 2010, even though it didn't win the NESCAC), but Brandeis has a good chance the more and more I think about it. Could go either way.

Rochester 0-0 Emory---The battle of which team will quit first
NYU 0-1 Brandeis-------Why change things now.
Wash U 1-2 Chicago----Chicago in their own mind still thinks it has a chance.
Carnegie 0-1 Case------Just when CMU won everyone over Case interrupts the GL region AGAIN.

I didn't partake up to this point, but better late than never. Away team first, as seems to be SOP on this board.

Rochester 1-1 Emory - Both teams playing for pride. Surprising for the Yellowjackets, who are - for the first time in memory - out of contention for an NCAA bid before the final day of the season. They are always a tough out no matter who they're playing, but I think they draw yet another game.

NYU 0-1 Brandeis - Brandeis has already wrapped up the UAA title. Despite NYU putting up a good battle for pride, the Judges will get their customary goal per game, and while their confidence will have been boosted by the conference title I still didn't see any change to the goalscoring challenges. Maybe that will change? Who knows.

Wash U 0-1 Chicago - This is where things get interesting. The top two games are teams that have either wrapped up their postseason, or have nothing left to play for. But while I think WashU is a pretty safe bet as #1 seed, I'll amend my earlier statement and say a Chicago win could put them back in contention.

Carnegie 0-1 Case - Case, like I've seen with Williams, Wesleyan, and WPI, has had some rotten luck this year, and it appears to have cost them an NCAA bid. But I still think they're equally talented as Carnegie, and Cveko is a great player. Being at home will give the Spartans the edge.

My UAA Pick-em

Rochester 0-0 Emory
NYU 1-4 Brandeis
Wash U 2-3 Chicago
Carnegie 0-1 Case

UAA Pick-em

Rochester 2-0 Emory
NYU 0-1 Brandeis
Wash U 1-1 Chicago
Carnegie 0-1 Case

You have to respect all whom are picking Brandeis to score more than a goal.

Quote from: CovensCorner on November 05, 2015, 12:41:26 PM
UAA Pick-em

Rochester 2-0 Emory
NYU 0-1 Brandeis
Wash U 1-1 Chicago
Carnegie 0-1 Case

You have to respect all whom are picking Brandeis to score more than a goal.

Have a look at NYU's defensive record.  That defense ships goals.

Rochester has never won at Emory and the streak will continue if the current score holds.  Emory up 2-0 early in the second half.

Brandeis leads NYU by their customary 1-0 margin early in the second half.

Wash U races out of the gate with two quick goals and leads Chicago 2-0 late in the first half.

Chicago battles back and it is 2-2. Even with a win U Chicago is on the wrong side of bubble. First 4 OUT.

Chicago and Wash U headed to overtime. These two teams play some good soccer.

Brandeis beats NYU 3-0. First time all season that the Judges have scored more than once and simultaneously shut out the opposition.  Brandeis could have had about four or five with how many chances they had, NYU keeper with some great saves, but the Judges looked much better than the last time I saw them in person against Lasell - they're spreading the play much better and are moving the ball well. The UAA title looks to have given them increased confidence, as it should.

Case Western and Carnegie Mellon getting ready to kick off. CWRU senior Alex Masciopinto's parents were there for senior night, along with two sisters, and...freshman brother Zack from CMU! All six of them walked out with Alex, and I just thought it was really cool that Zack, who will be an adversary from minute 0 to 90, walked out there with his brother. A nice moment.

Quote from: swibbles on November 05, 2015, 11:58:44 AM
My UAA Pick-em

Rochester 0-0 Emory
NYU 1-4 Brandeis
Wash U 2-3 Chicago
Carnegie 0-1 Case

Two of four dead on from me.  Sounds like quite the game in Chicago.

Oh crap!  I forgot to get my UAA picks in this week... :-\

Anyone want to take guesses at UAA POY/ROY/COY?

POY is tough, but I'd personally give it to Webb from CMU - hat-trick against Messiah, and 13 goals and 5 assists in 14 starts on the season. If not him, I'd go for Josh Ocel from Brandeis - playing for the UAA Champs, scored the winner against Carnegie and assisted the winners against Case, Emory, and Rochester. ROY is tough, but Masciopinto probably edges it, although my second choice would be Lopez from Chicago or his teammate Koh. Coven would be my pick for COY, going 6-1 in the UAA is quite impressive and wrapping up the conference title with a game to spare was impressive.

POY - Webb (CMU)
ROY - Z. Masciopinto (CMU)
COY - Coven (Brandeis)

Blooter,

Is the voting for POY, ROY, and COY for the entire season or conference play only?

Quote from: CovensCorner on November 09, 2015, 01:27:15 PM
Blooter,

Is the voting for POY, ROY, and COY for the entire season or conference play only?

Good question. My guess is that it's both, but significantly weighted toward conference play. If that's the case, I can see Ocel really challenging Webb, because he either scored or assisted the GW in four of Brandeis' six wins, and has been their outstanding midfield player IMHO.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 09, 2015, 02:13:37 PM

Quote from: CovensCorner on November 09, 2015, 01:27:15 PM
Blooter,

Is the voting for POY, ROY, and COY for the entire season or conference play only?

Good question. My guess is that it's both, but significantly weighted toward conference play. If that's the case, I can see Ocel really challenging Webb, because he either scored or assisted the GW in four of Brandeis' six wins, and has been their outstanding midfield player IMHO.

Blooter, as I understand it in the UAA each coach will nominate a few players from his own team that they would like to be considered for awards. Then the rest of the coaches will vote on the nominated players. While the whole season is meant to be considered, inevitably the coaches will remember more from the in-league games/scouting reports they get from each other etc. so ultimately I think conference play is about 99% of what goes into making these selections.

Quote from: nw_ds on November 09, 2015, 02:23:47 PM
Blooter, as I understand it in the UAA each coach will nominate a few players from his own team that they would like to be considered for awards. Then the rest of the coaches will vote on the nominated players. While the whole season is meant to be considered, inevitably the coaches will remember more from the in-league games/scouting reports they get from each other etc. so ultimately I think conference play is about 99% of what goes into making these selections.

That would make sense. But I'm guessing that if a kid goes and scores 12 goals all season and 7 fall in conference, he might get the nod over another player who scored 7 all season with all of them coming in conference. I'd say cumulative (including non-conference games) stats come into play in a tie-breaker sort of situation, but that the main consideration would be conference play, as it should be.

I should also add that in addition to Z. Masciopinto, Lopez, and Koh, I liked Ryan Sproule of WashU for ROY, but Masciopinto's stats were very good conference-wide, let alone as a freshman.

Winning the UAA may ultimately play a factor considering there were no clear standouts this year for POY.

POY - J. Ocel
ROY - Z. Masciopinto
COY - Brandeis Staff - More specifically Margolis

Quote from: blooter442 on November 09, 2015, 02:32:53 PM

Quote from: nw_ds on November 09, 2015, 02:23:47 PM
Blooter, as I understand it in the UAA each coach will nominate a few players from his own team that they would like to be considered for awards. Then the rest of the coaches will vote on the nominated players. While the whole season is meant to be considered, inevitably the coaches will remember more from the in-league games/scouting reports they get from each other etc. so ultimately I think conference play is about 99% of what goes into making these selections.

That would make sense. But I'm guessing that if a kid goes and scores 12 goals all season and 7 fall in conference, he might get the nod over another player who scored 7 all season with all of them coming in conference. I'd say cumulative (including non-conference games) stats come into play in a tie-breaker sort of situation, but that the main consideration would be conference play, as it should be.

I should also add that in addition to Z. Masciopinto, Lopez, and Koh, I liked Ryan Sproule of WashU for ROY, but Masciopinto's stats were very good conference-wide, let alone as a freshman.

Agreed, I didn't see much of Webb this year but I also think your underestimating the tendency to reward the league champion. If it's close between the two I would expect the tie to go to Brandeis which would likely mean Ocel, although in my opinion Lanahan and Lynch would be just as deserving. But these awards usually go to offensive players.

Quote from: nw_ds on November 09, 2015, 02:41:18 PM
Agreed, I didn't see much of Webb this year but I also think your underestimating the tendency to reward the league champion. If it's close between the two I would expect the tie to go to Brandeis which would likely mean Ocel, although in my opinion Lanahan and Lynch would be just as deserving. But these awards usually go to offensive players.

To be fair, Brandeis didn't win the league last year and Savonen got POY - then again, he was the clear standout for the Judges, who despite not winning the conference were the most talented team in the league. Soboff could have made a case himself had he not been injured mid-season.

I would be fine with one of Ocel, Lanahan, or Lynch winning POY. ;) In fact, my personal pick would be Lynch - he does all the dirty work, but is one of the most underrated players - nationally - IMHO with his skills, smarts, and defensive acumen. Really hope he gets the accolades that he deserves - he could very well be an all-star midfielder for the Judges (was an All-NE CM at Weymouth High) but has sacrificed his own glory for the good of the team.

CovensCorner, totally agree with the shoutout to Margolis - he has to be one of the best tacticians in the college game IMHO.

It would have been interesting to see J. Ocel play with his brother S. Ocel, j. Ocel's freshman year.  The attack would have been quite impressive with Soboff, Savonen and s. Ocel with J. Ocel distributing the from the CAM position. 

As for Webb, he fell off the his pace once he got into conference play after such a hot start.

UAA awards are out:

Most Valuable Player- Chris Cvecko (CWRU)
Rookie of the Year - Matthew Koh (Chicago)
Coaching Staff of the Year: Brandeis

First Team:
Chris Cvecko CWRU M Sr.
Jeff Greblick Rochester F Jr.
Matthew Koh Chicago F Fr.
Conor Lanahan Brandeis D Sr.
Max Lopez Chicago F Fr.
Josh Ocel Brandeis M Jr.
Chris Rieger Washington D So.
Matt Sherr Emory D Sr.
William Webb Carnegie Mellon M Sr.
Jack West Washington M Sr.
Ben Woodhouse Brandeis GK So.

Second Team
Jorge Bilbao Chicago M Sr.
Hill Bonin Chicago GK So.
Kevin Goon Washington D Jr.
Jacob Grindel CWRU M Jr.
Tristan Lockwood Carnegie Mellon M Jr.
Robbie Lynch Brandeis D Sr.
Jason McCartney Emory M So.
Christian Meyer Emory F So.
Jake Picard Brandeis M Sr.
Ben Swanger Rochester M Jr.
Zach Vieira Brandeis F Jr.

Thoughts? Surprises?

I was surprised that Cvecko won the MVP over Webb. I know we speculated that O'cell might receive the award, but I thought that if someone other than him (or a different brandeis player) would win it that it would be webb. Webb led the league with 13 goals (compared to cvecko's 10) and points with 31 (compared to cvecko's 22). Webb also had the edge in assists with 5 compared to Cvecko's 2. I'm curious why the coaches felt that Cvecko was more deserving.

As i am writing this I think i found the answer (which solves a debate we were having earlier in the thread). It appears that Webb only had 1 goal and no assists in conference play, whereas Cvecko had 4 goals and no assists in conference play. Surely this must be the reason. Interestingly enough, O'cell actually lead the conference in points (9) with 2 goals and 5 assists. So if conference statistics were the reason for Cvecko winning the MVP, I now wonder why O'cell did not get it. Perhaps an answer to that might be that Cvecko is a Sr. and ineligible for the award next year, whereas O'cell is a Jr. and could get it next year.

I'm disappointed Lynch didn't get first team. He is an absolute stud, and as Blooter mentioned a while back is playing out of position as a sacrifice for the team. It's a shame he doesn't have a first team all conference to show for it as I think he is the best outside back in the UAA.

Also surprised Lockwood didn't get first team. From the 3 CMU games I watched he seemed to be very busy and effective, despite his tiny stature.

I'm also surprised Stephen Depietto from Brandeis didn't at least receive honorable mention. As a freshman he has started all 19 of their games at outside back and has looked very very impressive.

Cveko over Webb I can understand, and in terms of one individual being vital to his team, I watched Case a few different times and I would say Cveko was vital for Case. I would have liked to have seen Ocel get it, but Cveko is a worthy MVP.

The only major qualm I have is Greblick on the First Team?! He scored three goals all season, and only one was in UAA play - against Chicago - and had no assists. The other two were against Moravian, a weak non-conference team. His team didn't even come close to making the NCAA Tournament. That is a shocking selection, and I'm guessing a case of a player having his name recognized from previous years - he scored 9 goals and had 9 assists his freshman year, but hasn't done much since, and I watched several Rochester games this year. In fact, I can think of a much more worthy recipient of First Team honors who was an Honorable Mention: Desai of Chicago, who scored 11 goals this year. Granted, five of them were PKs, but I still consider him to be their most dangerous player, and he was an All-UAA First Team selection last year. I would have taken him in a heartbeat over Greblick.

Happy to see Woodhouse get first team honors, as he improved massively over the course of the year, but I think Bonin would have been just as worthy for the GK slot. Would have given ROY to Z. Masciopinto, but Koh is a good choice, although I might have picked Lopez. Robinson getting Honorable Mention was nice - he's really improved playing next to Lanahan, and while Lanahan is the director of the Brandeis D I think Robinson has been a big part of the Judges' defensive solidity.

Coven and Margolis et al are worthy Coaching Staff of the Year winners. Took a team that in my view isn't as talented as last year's squad was and got them to win the UAA going 6-1 in conference play.

Lynch is easily a first team quality player in my book. To be quite honest I'd probably have chosen Picard on the first team as well, he's not a player that immediately stands out but that's mainly due to his role and the more you watch Brandeis play the more you see how much the ball flows through him on offense and also how solid he is on defense. He also came up with a few big goals at the start of the season which I realize doesn't necessarily come into play for UAA awards but trust me Brandeis will miss him next year. That said having 4 field players on the first team may be a bit much so I'm not going to argue too much with any of the selections.

I honestly don't understand how folks get so worked up about these All-Conference and All-American teams.  I admit that when the career is over and you want something that looks impressive on a job interview or law or med school application that they are nice things to have, and I'm sure the families of the players are very proud and all.  But that said, I know first hand that the vast, vast majority of these young men care far more about the relationships they've built with their teammates and overall team success.  I would bet money that any player who wins these awards would give up every single accolade in exchange for a national championship. 

Lynch is a perfect example.  I know him personally and part of the reason he should have made first team is that in addition to being a fantastic player, he is a top-notch competitor, leader, team guy, and winner.  I am sure he is most grateful that he came back from missing a full season due to injury to enjoy these last two years of Brandeis having exceptional seasons.

Agree that Lynch would have been a justified 1st Team selection. My point was more that I couldn't understand how a player who didn't have a very good season by any means, statistically or otherwise (a striker with 3 goals and just 1 conference goal), ended up on the 1st Team, and speculated that perhaps it was due to past years' performances and legacy. Plus, it wasn't like the player was acting as a target man and holding up the ball for a high-scoring offense - this was on the 2nd-to-last place team. Just different than I would have done, but I respect the decisions and think that most of the selections were good choices.

Quote from: NCAC New England on November 11, 2015, 07:17:47 PM
I honestly don't understand how folks get so worked up about these All-Conference and All-American teams.  I admit that when the career is over and you want something that looks impressive on a job interview or law or med school application that they are nice things to have, and I'm sure the families of the players are very proud and all.  But that said, I know first hand that the vast, vast majority of these young men care far more about the relationships they've built with their teammates and overall team success.  I would bet money that any player who wins these awards would give up every single accolade in exchange for a national championship. 

Lynch is a perfect example.  I know him personally and part of the reason he should have made first team is that in addition to being a fantastic player, he is a top-notch competitor, leader, team guy, and winner.  I am sure he is most grateful that he came back from missing a full season due to injury to enjoy these last two years of Brandeis having exceptional seasons.

Spot on

Judges probably surprised to be down 1-0 early.

Quote from: NCAC New England on November 11, 2015, 07:17:47 PM
But that said, I know first hand that the vast, vast majority of these young men care far more about the relationships they've built with their teammates and overall team success.  I would bet money that any player who wins these awards would give up every single accolade in exchange for a national championship. 

True. But damn it would be nice to tell people you were an All-American in college. First Team regional All-American doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

These boyz need to win 5 more games and they wont  need to say anything, people will ask you about your ring!

Brandeis won 2-1 against Thomas (ME). Winner came from Josh Ocel in the last minute, just like his brother Sam did in the last minute against Vassar in 2012. Thomas went up 1-0 in the 13th minute on a goal from Willie Clemons, assisted by D.J. Nicholas. Brandeis tied it around 10 minutes later on a header from Flahive after a great ball from Joshua Handler. Clemons then got sent off for a bad challenge, which didn't look worthy of a red card in my eyes, but regardless of their opponents being down to 10 men the Judges made hard work of finding that second goal, as they were held scoreless for most of the second half until Ocel blasted in a wondergoal from outside the box into the far corner with under a minute to play. Fantastic finish, and the 'keeper - who had made some great saves on Brandeis attempts - had no chance to stop it.

The game was relatively uneventful, as Brandeis had most of the ball but couldn't score for long stretches. But what was interesting was that Tre Ming, Thomas' main danger man, was sent off after the goal, allegedly for striking the ref. Mr.Right stated that Ming is a talent but a total headcase, and he was [synonym for correct] - even before the goal you could tell he was getting frustrated and was totally out of his game, and he was pretty much a non-factor throughout the game - I thought Adam LaBrie down the right flank was Thomas' biggest threat, although he was kept pretty quiet by Robbie Lynch. In the end, it didn't matter, as Brandeis ran out the final 42.3 seconds for the victory, although Thomas did hang tough especially after going down to 10 men. Judges will play the winner of RPI vs. Stevens tomorrow.

With all of the UAA squads except for Brandeis - who will play Trinity in the Sweet 16 on Saturday - finished, I thought it might be interesting to take a look at where teams might be next year.

Chicago, I think, has to be the favorite. They lose Bilbao in midfield, but I think they're going to be very, very good. Like, significantly better than they were this year. Koh and Lopez, who were both excellent as first-years, will be back and a year more experienced. And while they might not possess the same unknown status as they did as incoming freshmen, I still think they're two excellent players who will only get better. Desai and Weis will be seniors, and both have proven their leadership and clutch abilities on offense and defense, respectively. Bonin will return in goal as a junior, and I already think he's one of the best, if not the best, in the UAA. I heard a comment from someone associated with the Brandeis program that Chicago was arguably stronger this year than last year, the year that they won the UAA pretty much out of nowhere, and while they didn't win the UAA this year that was more to do with Brandeis being able to win close games than Chicago faltering. Regardless, I think Chicago returns the strongest group of players, and will be legit next year.

I think WashU will be solid again. They lose Jack West but they have some great young talent coming through, most notably Ryan Sproule up top and Marco Pinheiro - younger brother of Tufts player Rui - in midfield. Geanon will be back and he's a good goalkeeper. But for a slip-up against Carnegie, WashU could very well have been in the UAA title race - I think if they'd beaten Carnegie that they wouldn't have lost against Chicago, but hypothetical situations are never really helpful. Regardless, I don't think WashU will lose much, and I think they'll be about where they were this year, and probably even better.

Carnegie will miss Webb, but he didn't have much of a second-half of the season. The Tartans also lose their goalkeeper - Bykowsky - and Greg Allen on D and Jordan Friedlander in the midfield, but Z. Masciopinto came up with some big goals in his first year, and he'll be a year more experienced. Lockwood will also be back, and I think he provides excellent fight and is the spirit of the team. The question for me is whether Carnegie can stop shipping goals, because as much as they scored a bunch this year they gave up a lot as well.

The real question mark for me is Brandeis. They'll lose Lanahan, whose presence in the heart of defense is huge, and Picard, who is excellent and possessing and retaining the ball. Yet I do think that Lanahan was more dominant last year than this year. They also lose Lynch, whose leadership and soccer smarts are huge - they're the type of thing you don't realize you've lost until its gone. But defensively the return of GK Woodhouse will help to solidify things - he improved massively as the year went on, and he commands his box well, but there are still two massive defensive holes to fill. Kyle Robinson at CB improved a lot next to Lanahan. Vieira and Jastremski return, as does Flahive, and perhaps most importantly Ocel, who might have two more seasons if he elects to use a medical hardship (he missed his entire frosh year with a broken leg) as his brother did. Brandeis returns the majority of its midfield and attack, but has some holes to fill on defense. If they can adapt, then I think they'll be OK.

Emory loses a lot. From their goalkeeper Abe Hannigan to forward Sebastian Hardington, and perhaps most importantly Matt Sherr on D. But I like Eli Curtin in midfield a lot, and everything seems to go through him. And with Sonny Travis in charge, Emory is always a competitive side, especially at home, so I think they'll rebound.

Case loses Cveko, the UAA MVP. Cveko was a really good player that could do it all, from scoring goals himself to creating them for his teammates, and even creating them for himself. If they hadn't gone 0-2 during that late October UAA weekend, they very well could have been in NCAAs or had a good chance at having at least a share of the UAA title. They bring back GK Christian Grimme, the brother of Ryan Grimme, who was a fantastic goalkeeper for Vassar, and he'll keep them in plenty of games next year.

For the first time in years, Rochester didn't even seem a legitimate threat to make the NCAA Tournament, and ultimately they didn't. Even when they missed out in 2011, it came down to them blowing their last two games. This year, they finished 6-5-5, weren't in RRs any of the 3 weeks, and posted an RvR of 1-2-3. The biggest thing was that Rochester didn't seem to have the same steeliness and resilience that they usually do, and I think that's what cost them an NCAA bid. They were anemic offensively and failed to convert UAA draws into wins, finishing with a conf. record of 1-3-3. I think losing Alex Swanger really hit them hard. The good news is they do return a lot, including Ben Swanger in midfield and Jeff Greblick up front, who had a poor season yet somehow got named 1st Team All-UAA, but is good when he's in form. They lose Fafinski, Seargent, and Buck, which is 3/4 of their back line, but their issues were on O more than D. Still, could be a problem.

For a few years, NYU has been the enigma of the UAA. They did beat Emory on the road for their lone conference win of the year, which I thought was impressive, but I think in hindsight as some others pointed out was more the case of Emory just throwing in the towel than anything. Obviously NYU has had some troubles defensively, although I don't think that can be put down to their GK Doucett because he actually looked pretty good on the occasions that I saw them. But what NYU hasn't had for a couple of years is a real X-factor, someone like Mike Soboff from Brandeis or Alex Swanger from Rochester. Someone who can play interchangably between the lines of midfield and forward and really give that extra dimension to the team's attack. I see a team that is relatively good technically and solid but not dynamic by any means. If they can address that, I think they'll be back to being a legitimate contender.

Good work Bloots...I do not know the teams as well as you do but I must say after watching Chicago 2 times this year I felt besides Brandeis they were #2 in this conference. Not sure what happened at Kenyon as it sounds like 1st Half they were playing very well.

Honestly, with what U of Chicago offers in terms of the school and location and everything they should be the best team in this league. I do not know if soccer is supported like it is at Brandeis but they should have the resources for this to be a Top 10 program in the country. O'Conner had some success there but wanted D1 and left for URI. 5 years later was fired after he destroyed that program completely. Wiercinski also had some success but really this program should take off. Ironically, O'Conner after getting fired at URI ended up back in D3 at Castleton St. A far cry from Chicago

Well done blooter. Regarding Brandeis, I'd actually venture to say that I don't think they'll miss a beat with the loss of the 3 seniors. Offensively, I think they are bound to improve with the likes of flahive, viera, Jastremski, and Lynch returning. Also, I think Freshman Joshua Handler and Andrew Allen will continue their growth and maturation and hopefully we will see one of them emerge as a goalscorer.

Regarding their losses, while I think Jake is an essential complement to the styles of hernandez and Ocel, I think Brandon Miskin is phenomenal and will fit into that roll perfectly.

Obviously, losing all american Lanahan and my favorite Robbie lynch will hurt. However, I think a large and often times overlooked factor in what makes Brandeis' defense (and many other staunch defenses) so good is the dominance and control in the midfield. Brandeis' style of constant possession and slow buildup helps to keep their defense spry and takes a lot of pressure off them since the mids and forwards keep the ball for tons of possession. While losing Lanahan and Lynch does hurt, Brandeis will not lose their style (and I'll venture to say they might be even more prolific in possession next year) so I don't think the loss of those two players will translate into that many more goals let up.Also, DePietto and Robinson have been spectacular all year and they just need to find a couple serviceable backs to compliment them. Hopefully Gabe and Coven are working hard to get some solid defensive commitments.

Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2015, 01:47:42 PM
Well done blooter. Regarding Brandeis, I'd actually venture to say that I don't think they'll miss a beat with the loss of the 3 seniors. Offensively, I think they are bound to improve with the likes of flahive, viera, Jastremski, and Lynch returning. Also, I think Freshman Joshua Handler and Andrew Allen will continue their growth and maturation and hopefully we will see one of them emerge as a goalscorer.

Regarding their losses, while I think Jake is an essential complement to the styles of hernandez and Ocel, I think Brandon Miskin is phenomenal and will fit into that roll perfectly.

Obviously, losing all american Lanahan and my favorite Robbie lynch will hurt. However, I think a large and often times overlooked factor in what makes Brandeis' defense (and many other staunch defenses) so good is the dominance and control in the midfield. Brandeis' style of constant possession and slow buildup helps to keep their defense spry and takes a lot of pressure off them since the mids and forwards keep the ball for tons of possession. While losing Lanahan and Lynch does hurt, Brandeis will not lose their style (and I'll venture to say they might be even more prolific in possession next year) so I don't think the loss of those two players will translate into that many more goals let up.Also, DePietto and Robinson have been spectacular all year and they just need to find a couple serviceable backs to compliment them. Hopefully Gabe and Coven are working hard to get some solid defensive commitments.

Good points. From what I understood, as far as defense goes, I think Josh Hacunda will be back for another year probably, as he was out all of this year with an ACL injury. Perhaps he can fill in on the left side of defense - IIRC he played RB last year. One possible replacement for Lanahan would be Hernandez (it is my understanding that he is a natural CB), but I see it more likely that they keep Hernandez in midfield and replace Lanahan with someone new, perhaps highly-touted freshman Julien Tremblay, or perhaps another newcomer.

In midfield, I think a consistent trio of Ocel, Miskin, and Hernandez is very functional - Ocel is the most attacking of the three but can defend well, Miskin is a mix of both, and Hernandez is your classic central midfield "destroyer" who just breaks up opposing attacks. And I actually think with another year under their belts they might be better than this year - Miskin is perhaps a bit technically cleaner than Picard, but Picard will be missed.

Handler really impressed off the bench, he got better as the season went on and served as an excellent replacement for Jastremski while he was out, and even kept Jastremski out of the starting lineup once he was fit again. Provided some excellent assists, too. I would imagine Coven and Gabe will be trying to bring in a true CF (Flahive was an outside mid turned CF) although asking a freshman to start up top for a competitive program is a lot, so it will be interesting to see what they do with the front three if anything at all.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2015, 03:21:22 PM

Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2015, 01:47:42 PM
Well done blooter. Regarding Brandeis, I'd actually venture to say that I don't think they'll miss a beat with the loss of the 3 seniors. Offensively, I think they are bound to improve with the likes of flahive, viera, Jastremski, and Lynch returning. Also, I think Freshman Joshua Handler and Andrew Allen will continue their growth and maturation and hopefully we will see one of them emerge as a goalscorer.

Regarding their losses, while I think Jake is an essential complement to the styles of hernandez and Ocel, I think Brandon Miskin is phenomenal and will fit into that roll perfectly.

Obviously, losing all american Lanahan and my favorite Robbie lynch will hurt. However, I think a large and often times overlooked factor in what makes Brandeis' defense (and many other staunch defenses) so good is the dominance and control in the midfield. Brandeis' style of constant possession and slow buildup helps to keep their defense spry and takes a lot of pressure off them since the mids and forwards keep the ball for tons of possession. While losing Lanahan and Lynch does hurt, Brandeis will not lose their style (and I'll venture to say they might be even more prolific in possession next year) so I don't think the loss of those two players will translate into that many more goals let up.Also, DePietto and Robinson have been spectacular all year and they just need to find a couple serviceable backs to compliment them. Hopefully Gabe and Coven are working hard to get some solid defensive commitments.

Good points. From what I understood, as far as defense goes, I think Josh Hacunda will be back for another year probably, as he was out all of this year with an ACL injury. Perhaps he can fill in on the left side of defense - IIRC he played RB last year. One possible replacement for Lanahan would be Hernandez (it is my understanding that he is a natural CB), but I see it more likely that they keep Hernandez in midfield and replace Lanahan with someone new, perhaps highly-touted freshman Julien Tremblay, or perhaps another newcomer.

In midfield, I think a consistent trio of Ocel, Miskin, and Hernandez is very functional - Ocel is the most attacking of the three but can defend well, Miskin is a mix of both, and Hernandez is your classic central midfield "destroyer" who just breaks up opposing attacks. And I actually think with another year under their belts they might be better than this year - Miskin is perhaps a bit technically cleaner than Picard, but Picard will be missed.

Handler really impressed off the bench, he got better as the season went on and served as an excellent replacement for Jastremski while he was out, and even kept Jastremski out of the starting lineup once he was fit again. Provided some excellent assists, too. I would imagine Coven and Gabe will be trying to bring in a true CF (Flahive was an outside mid turned CF) although asking a freshman to start up top for a competitive program is a lot, so it will be interesting to see what they do with the front three if anything at all.

I do not see Hernandez moving to CB.  If you have watched him play, he is a bit reckless with his challenges and plays more of an enforcer role who is more than happy to take a yellow to slow down the counter or to just play physical.  However Brandeis as whole defensively seems to be quite aggresive with tackles in the box or near.

It would not be a surprise however to see Coven/Gabe drop a DCM into the CB role as they did with Joe Einsenbies in 2012 (junior) and 2013 (senior) who had no prior history as a CB. 

Quote from: CovensCorner on November 19, 2015, 03:55:23 PM
It would not be a surprise however to see Coven/Gabe drop a DCM into the CB role as they did with Joe Einsenbies in 2012 (junior) and 2013 (senior) who had no prior history as a CB.

True. Only thing is - based on their current roster - aside from Hernandez and Miskin I don't really see anyone else cut out to potentially play CB. Neither really has the height for CB. I mean, Eisenbies wasn't exceptionally tall, either, but his anticipation was unreal and he hardly ever lost a header. You don't see that level of reading of the game come along very often.

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2015, 01:00:58 PM
Honestly, with what U of Chicago offers in terms of the school and location and everything they should be the best team in this league. I do not know if soccer is supported like it is at Brandeis but they should have the resources for this to be a Top 10 program in the country. O'Conner had some success there but wanted D1 and left for URI. 5 years later was fired after he destroyed that program completely. Wiercinski also had some success but really this program should take off. Ironically, O'Conner after getting fired at URI ended up back in D3 at Castleton St. A far cry from Chicago

I would think Chicago is just about the hardest D3 in the country to get kids through admissions, followed closely by Swat.  Haverford also is not easy, in part because the school is so small (1200 students).  Wash U might the 2nd toughest in the UAA, although Wash U as an institution is so image-conscious/savvy they might want strong athletic programs.  Williams and Amherst are tough but athletics and athletes are important on NESCAC campuses.

Quote from: NCAC New England on November 19, 2015, 05:53:11 PM

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2015, 01:00:58 PM
Honestly, with what U of Chicago offers in terms of the school and location and everything they should be the best team in this league. I do not know if soccer is supported like it is at Brandeis but they should have the resources for this to be a Top 10 program in the country. O'Conner had some success there but wanted D1 and left for URI. 5 years later was fired after he destroyed that program completely. Wiercinski also had some success but really this program should take off. Ironically, O'Conner after getting fired at URI ended up back in D3 at Castleton St. A far cry from Chicago

I would think Chicago is just about the hardest D3 in the country to get kids through admissions, followed closely by Swat.  Haverford also is not easy, in part because the school is so small (1200 students).  Wash U might the 2nd toughest in the UAA, although Wash U as an institution is so image-conscious/savvy they might want strong athletic programs.  Williams and Amherst are tough but athletics and athletes are important on NESCAC campuses.

True.  Looking at the data, the UAA has a lot of the lowest admit rates among diii schools. MIT at 7.9% is the lowest among diii, but Chicago is close behind at 8.8%. Wash U at 17.1% is second in the UAA, but all are very selective and no doubt limit the pool of potential players. On the flip side, once a player that meets the necessary academic and athletic standards is found, you'd think these schools should be fairly successful at convincing kids to come.

Hm. According to US News and World Report, 10 of the 11 NESCAC schools rank in the top 100 lowest acceptance rates (across all divisions), while 3 UAA schools make the list. One UAA is listed before the top two NESCACs and one more before the next four, etc.

Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2015, 06:00:59 PM
Hm. According to US News and World Report, 10 of the 11 NESCAC schools rank in the top 100 lowest acceptance rates (across all divisions), while 3 UAA schools make the list. One UAA is listed before the top two NESCACs and one more before the next four, etc.

Certainly there is some correlation with overall admit rates, but another factor is how much individual schools value athletes within their own admit rate dynamics.  Just as a hypothetical, Amherst might have a 12% admit rate while Haverford is 20% but Haverford might be the tougher school to get in as an athlete.

Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2015, 06:00:59 PM
Hm. According to US News and World Report, 10 of the 11 NESCAC schools rank in the top 100 lowest acceptance rates (across all divisions), while 3 UAA schools make the list. One UAA is listed before the top two NESCACs and one more before the next four, etc.

Admit rates certainly do have some say in how selective the schools are, but they don't tell the whole story. Keep in mind that the average UAA school is significantly larger (all 8 schools = 7,430; excluding NYU = 5,400) than the average NESCAC (all 11 schools = 2,400; excluding Tufts = 2,100), so while the schools may have equally talented prospective students and student bodies in terms of grades/SAT scores/etc. the NESCAC has far fewer spots by design. Granted, UAA schools also tend to receive more applications, so it goes both ways, but just goes to show that acceptance rates aren't exactly the best metric of academic quality - it can be like comparing apples and oranges.

A perfect example: Carnegie Mellon at 23.6% has a higher acceptance rate than Bates' 21.4%, but would you say that Bates is the superior school? With all due respect to Bates, I would not.

That said, both conferences are entirely comprised of schools with under 50 percent acceptance rates, and are excellent academically.

blooter, I agree that the numbers never really tell the full story. It's important to analyze and synthesize.

Re: Admissions and selectivity, worth noting that the NESCAC and UAA schools have excellent applicant pools. Pool size and admissions rate are remarkably similar. Matriculation rates are a better measure of interest -- as this indicates what % of admits accept the offer of school "A" (and, thus, over school "B"). Applicants to NSECAC and UAA schools will have options .... 

So, the discussion by admissions officers at these types of schools is about 'selecting a class' -- they have the privilege and responsibility to bring together an interesting cross-section of young people.  The emphasis (or weighting) of sport skill as one of the criteria for selection surely varies by college (and sport -- if not coach). My sense is the role of soccer skill in admissions is far less about the school (across the rarified strata of UAA v. NESCAC schools) and far more about the role of the coach and that programs status inside the institution. Just think what an advantage it is to have a decade or two of experience in recruiting for that institution!  The coach can build up evidence of selection -> graduation while also learning how to help admissions see the value of the sport as a contributor to the quality and diversity of the students on campus.

Brandeis is now 0-3 on the Amherst field since their resurgence in 2012.  Loss to Williams (2012), Loss to Williams (2013), Loss to Trinity (2015).  For whatever reason they can not get the job done.  In 2012 they were outplay by Williams but the goal scored was harsh, Joe Eisenbeis was pulled down from behind leaving Rashid one on one who slotted home the winner. the Following year Brandeis was again outplayed by Williams, but two crucial mistakes by the Brandeis keeper are what ultimately led to defeat and finally, 2015.  Brandeis played well today however when they fall behind they have no one to bring them back in the game after going down early.  Brandeis needs to find a way to host, so they don't have to play at Amherst.

Does anyone have any insight on recruits for Brandeis?

#10 was the heart and soul for Brandeis today. Others were somewhat of a no-show.

Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2015, 07:06:35 PM

Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2015, 06:00:59 PM
Hm. According to US News and World Report, 10 of the 11 NESCAC schools rank in the top 100 lowest acceptance rates (across all divisions), while 3 UAA schools make the list. One UAA is listed before the top two NESCACs and one more before the next four, etc.

Admit rates certainly do have some say in how selective the schools are, but they don't tell the whole story. Keep in mind that the average UAA school is significantly larger (all 8 schools = 7,430; excluding NYU = 5,400) than the average NESCAC (all 11 schools = 2,400; excluding Tufts = 2,100), so while the schools may have equally talented prospective students and student bodies in terms of grades/SAT scores/etc. the NESCAC has far fewer spots by design. Granted, UAA schools also tend to receive more applications, so it goes both ways, but just goes to show that acceptance rates aren't exactly the best metric of academic quality - it can be like comparing apples and oranges.

A perfect example: Carnegie Mellon at 23.6% has a higher acceptance rate than Bates' 21.4%, but would you say that Bates is the superior school? With all due respect to Bates, I would not.

That said, both conferences are entirely comprised of schools with under 50 percent acceptance rates, and are excellent academically.

I understand the bit about acceptance rates, but what about average SAT scores?  My guess is that the UAA's, on average, are higher than the NESCAC's; very likely the highest, on average, of any Division III conference.

The UAA is also the only conference in the NCAA at any Division that consists enirely of members of the elite Association of American Universities (AAU); even the Ivy League and B1G cannot claim that distinction. 

Well with Bowdoin and Wesleyan now not looking at SAT's their athletic programs are getting a MAJOR boost.

I hate to say this as I tend to favor UAA teams but this league was really down this year. A lot of talk for Brandeis but even they were a bit overrated. Similar to F&M from the Mid-Atlantic region. Disappointing year for the UAA as a whole but I think it will be a much stronger league come this time next season.

Ya know, I just gave this some more thought.

Other than selectivity, one has to also consider the following: what does the soccer prospect in question want to study?

Suppose that a soccer prospect wants to study engineering, business, or nursing?

Several UAA schools offer engineering programs.  In the NESCAC, only Tufts does, to the best of my knowledge.  Of course, there's always the 3/2 engineering program, but that requires an additional year's worth of school..........AND additional tuition/expenses.

Business?  Not aware that any NESCAC school offers it.  Several UAA schools do though.

Nursing?  Not aware that any NESCAC school offers it either.  Certainly CWRU does, and possibly other UAA schools do as well.

So if someone is a high achieving student and a top soccer player looking to compete at the Division III level, AND he/she gets accepted into both a NESCAC school, and a UAA school, he/she might very well choose the UAA school over the NESCAC school simply because of his/her academic interests.  Selectivity and other aspects of academic prestige may not have that much to do with it.

Drawing data from US News and World Report (which draws data from what the Feds mandate be reported), here's SAT as a proxy of selectivity.
This shows the range of SAT scores (using 1600, not 2400, scoring) of the middle 50% of admitted students.
~1300 is top 10% of SAT 1600 distribution,  ~1400 is top 4% of distribution, ~1500 is top 1% of distribution.
The UAA have more professional preparation and large graduate programs.  I think Tufts is the only NESCAC school with a large graduate program (by graduate I mean research).

UAA (in order of 2015 conference standing)
Brandies    1250-1480
CWRU        1270-1470
CMU          1340-1530
WashU       ACT 32-34 (top 2% of distribution)
Chicago     1430-1590
Emory       1280-1460
UofR          1240-1450
NYU           1240-1450

NESCAC (in order of 2015 conference standing)
Amherst     1350-1550
Midd           1260-1470
Tufts          1360-1520
Conn Coll   1250-1410
Bowdoin     1370-1520
Williams     1350-1560
Trinity        1150-1340
Wesleyan   1290-1480
Bates         1280-1430
Hamilton    1320-1470
Colby         1230-1430

Using that data (couldn't do this for Washington U., of course), the average middle 50% SAT range for a NESCAC school is 1291-1470.

For a UAA school, it's 1292-1490.

So it appears the UAA has an advantage in SAT scores, however slight.  Perhaps a statistically insignificant one, but an advantage nevertheless.

I'm guessing that if Washington U.'s SAT scores were figured in, the UAA's advantage in average SAT scores might be even greater.

With those numbers, you're splitting hairs and not offering statistically significant data.

As I said, the advantage may not be a statistically significant one.  I'll say this though.  Numbers like these suggest that the average UAA soccer player is every bit as academically qualified as the average NESCAC soccer player, if not more so.

I think that this establishes that academic prestige is hardly based on selectivity rates alone.

The College Board has lots of material on using and comparing SAT scores.  MY read of this, being in the college business, is that SAT scores at the edges of the distribution within 30 points (+/-) are equivalent (so a 700 and a 760 are equal, as is a 1540 and 1600); SAT scores in the middle of the distribution within +/- 15 points are equivalent (so 1190 and 1220). The differences in UAA v. NESCAC are non-significant

The best measure of an institution's status (and we're talking about reputational status as all UAA and NESCAC schools are some of the premier institutions in the US, from memory all are in top 30 National Universities or National Liberal Arts colleges) may be comparing admission to acceptance Most are highly selective, so admission rates are often low double digits into single digits.  Acceptance rates are what percentage of admitted students matriculate. Most students admitted to a UAA or NESCAC school have many options, so acceptance rates shows who gets chosen first.

I'd guess that Chicago, Amherst and Williams lead in acceptance rate, but its more informative to get data over a decade (and not the year-to-year reporting that is available via most of the college ranking sites).

Quote from: Part_Bart on November 23, 2015, 08:49:45 PM
Chicago     1430-1590

Wow. A 1590 75th percentile is extremely impressive for UChicago, and its 25th percentile is 60 points higher than any other school on the list's 25th percentile. Perhaps that partially exemplifies why Chicago is ranked ahead of half of the Ivies: UPenn, Dartmouth, Brown, and Cornell. Obviously, there are a number of ways to spin statistics, but just trying to show how excellent of a school Chicago is.

Also, factoring into these rankings is Endowment and Alumni Giving. I believe Williams and Amherst have the highest endowments of any of these schools. If someone can find a list that would be helpful

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 24, 2015, 12:08:15 PM
Also, factoring into these rankings is Endowment and Alumni Giving. I believe Williams and Amherst have the highest endowments of any of these schools. If someone can find a list that would be helpful

Actually, there are four UAAs with higher endowments than Williams and Amherst.

Composite list of endowments (2014 dollars):
UChicago - $7.55 billion
WashU - $7.2 billion
Emory - $6.7 billion
NYU - $3.424 billion
Williams - $2.253 billion
Amherst - $2.149 billion
URochester - $2.13 billion
Case Western - $1.759 billion
Carnegie Mellon - $1.6 billion
Tufts - $1.59 billion
Bowdoin - $1.216 billion
Middlebury - $1.082 billion
Brandeis - $861 million
Hamilton - $858.8 million
Wesleyan - $839 million
Colby - $740 million
Trinity (CT) - $542.8 million
Conn. College - $278 million
Bates - $263.8 million

Avg UAA: $3.903 billion
Avg NESCAC: $1.073 billion

Now, part of this more than likely has to do with the fact that UAAs likely have larger alumni bases to draw from. But seriously, who would have guessed that URochester has an endowment larger than Colby, Trinity, Conn. and Bates combined? I certainly wouldn't have.

Yes obviously larger student enrollments to draw from. I am astounded that Conn has a higher endowment than Bates. That is not good.

I believe the per capita endowment of Amherst and Williams is larger than the per capita endowment of all other US institutions.
Per capita means per student (graduate and undergraduate).
Most UAA schools have larger graduate populations than undergraduate populations (and often use some of this to attract great graduate students, not just great undergraduates).
Most UAA schools are two to four times larger than most NESCAC schools.
Most NESCAC schools are primarily (if not completely) undergraduate institutions. 
Per capita endowment is a much better measure of its impact on the institution and generally there is a relationship between per capita endowment and acceptance rate.  This is due to the ability of the high per capita endowment schools to offer more need-based aid to students (there is rarely merit-based aid for UAA or NESCAC students -- their all academically meritorious :)
MOST of the time, it seems decisions among these options come down to tertiary issues (weather, dorm quality, food choices) or specific interest (free music lessons at Conn College, living in Amherst among the five college consortia that includes two all female colleges, etc). Legacy students make up a sizable minority on each campus.

Pat_Bart,

That "special interest" you mentioned also includes intended MAJOR.

A soccer player interested in majoring in business or nursing sure as heck isn't going to consider a NESCAC school, and one interested in engineering will likely only consider Tufts among NESCAC schools.

By contrast, that aspiring engineering student might apply to several of the UAA schools, the aspiring business student to Wash U., Case, or Carnegie-Mellon, and the aspiring Nursing student to Case.

That "special interest" may be larger than the others.