This was a pretty good thread with lots of people discussing this region so I figured we might as well start another thread for this season!
My early bird predictions by conference are as follows...
MAC Freedom
1. Eastern
2. Misericordia
3. Kings
4. Manhattanville
5. FDU-Florham
6. Desales
7. Wilkes
8. Del Val
MAC Commonwealth
1. Lycoming
2. Messiah
3. Arcadia
4. Alvernia
5. Leb Val
6. Stevenson
7. Widener
8. Hood
9. Albright
Landmark
1. Scranton
2. Catholic
3. Etown
4. Susquehanna
5. Moravian
6. Drew
7. Goucher
8. Juniata
Centennial
1. Haverford
2. Dickinson
3. Hopkins
4. F&M
5. Swarthmore
6. Gettysburg
7. Muhlenberg
8. McDaniel
9. Washington
10. Ursinus
NEAC
1. Morrisville St.
2. Lancaster Bible
3. Wells
4. Keuka
5. Suny Poly
6. Penn College
7. Cazenovia
8. PSU Berks
9. Wilson
10. PSU Abington
11. Bryn Athyn
12. Gallaudet
13. Suny Cobleskill
14. St. Elizabeth
CSAC
1. Cabrini
2. Marywood
3. Keystone
4. Neumann
5. Centenary
6. Immaculata
7. Rosemont
8. Gwynedd Mercy
9. Cairn
10. Clarks Summit
I think you will see 1 bid out of the Freedom, 2 out of the Commonwealth, 1 out of the Landmark, 3 out of the Centennial, 1 out of the NEAC, and 1 out of the CSAC. That equals 9 bids which would be 1 more than last season's 8 and remember folks...Messiah didn't make it last year so 9 bids is reasonable IMO.
MA Fan,
Great post. I agree with most of your predictions. Really nice summary, thanks for taking the time to put this together. Just a few tweaks/comments from my perspective.
MAC Freedom - agree Eastern is the top of the bunch
MAC Commonwealth - can't argue too much at all with your prediction of Lycoming on the top. But I think with Lycoming playing at Messiah on their large/wide grass field, Messiah will prevail in the regular season and that might give Messiah another home game in the conf play-offs. I think Messiah will win the conf. But again with Lycoming bringing back virtually all of the their players, I can't argue too much with your order. Also I think LVC will end up in the top 4 in the conf.
Landmark - Etown and Susq might edge up over Catholic.
Centennial - I see F&M vying for the conf championship here.
NEAC - I like where you put Lanc Bible College - they are up and coming. Still a bit inconsistent, but they are improving.
CSAS - agree Cabrini top of the bunch.
Also agree 100% with your summary of number of tournament births from each conf. Really well done.
Agreed with a lot of those choices. Really good work there. Here's a few thoughts
Alvernia is in for a down year. Their best player left, and they were really young last year. Won't get much better for them. They found a way to win some games last year because they are so well coached, but they wont have much talent.
Marywood lost a lot, I see them falling a ton. I've never been impressed with their coaching, and they graduated most of their starters. Neumann will be competitive.
F & M will be back in the mix for the Centennial. Last year was a weird year, and when I saw them I didn't necessarily think "this is one of the best teams in the country" but they know how they want to play and do it. F and M and Haverford are attracting the best recruits in that conference. Some other teams will obviously compete, and could win the conference, but I just think F and M and Haverford are going to be bringing in the best recruiting classes in that conference.
Does camp open on Friday for everyone?
Is Miseri getting a solid coach for the upcoming season, NEPAFAN?
I'd expect them to win reach the MACF final vs Eastern.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on August 16, 2016, 04:06:40 PM
Is Miseri getting a solid coach for the upcoming season, NEPAFAN?
I'd expect them to win reach the MACF final vs Eastern.
Yes, I think the potential is there. A young hungry coach with some experience in the NCAA Tourney and a few Landmark battles. Replacing a guy who has been there forever though...I think he has been active on the recruiting scene for a few years now..
That coaching situation will be very interesting over the next few years. Miseri's previous coach wont be easy to replace.
Speaking of Misericordia, Loras-grad Kevin Cavers has completed his two years as a graduate assistant there. Looks like he is back in Iowa as he's listed as an assistant for both the Loras men's and women's teams. A number of Loras grads have pursued a Masters at Misericordia and been the men's soccer graduate assistant. Matt Pucci in 2008 & 2009, Luke Schweitzer in 2010 & 2011, and Kevin Cavers in 2014 & 2015. Matt Pucci is the new Loras women's head coach after a number of years as Rothert's assistant.
http://www.cuacardinals.com/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20160804pac110
Checking out teams throughout the Mid-Atlantic and felt obligated to share after the last post. Lots of teams doing a foreign tour this year.
Any mid-atlantic scrimmages coming up that insiders know about?
Messiah will scrimmage Susquehanna tomorrow at Messiah.
With less than a week of pre-season training, both teams should use a lot of players as they look to shake off the summer rust.
Etown will host Rutgers-Camden, Eastern University, and Dickinson on Thursday.
Alumni Game Saturday.
Etown travel to Gettysburg on Sunday.
Shooter's Preseason Regional Rankings:
1.)Haverford
2.) Lycoming
3.) Messiah
4.) F&M
5.) Dickinson
6.) Etown
7.) Eastern
8.) Scranton
9.) Cabrini
10.) Hopkins
I think the top 5 is already set but the order is definitely up for grabs. I cannot see any of those teams not being in the top 5 of the region when it's all said and done this season. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the teams in the 6-10 slots. Anybody have any other sleeper teams that could jump in? My thoughts were Kings, Misericordia, Gettysburg, Alvernia, and Swarthmore.
Quote from: NJrexSoccer03 on August 22, 2016, 02:57:57 PM
Etown will host Rutgers-Camden, Eastern University, and Dickinson on Thursday.
Alumni Game Saturday.
Etown travel to Gettysburg on Sunday.
Those are great prep games for each team no matter who faces who.
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Was anybody in attendance? Falconer? D3soccerwatcher? FW?
How did the game go for both sides? I am expecting big things once again from Messiah and Susquehanna could be a dark horse contender in the wide open Landmark Conference this season.
Game is tonight, Tuesday.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on August 23, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
Game is tonight, Tuesday.
I misread the last post. My apologies!! Will you be at the game FW? If so keep us posted on your thoughts. Always love your feedback on the Falcons :)
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 23, 2016, 11:54:55 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on August 23, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
Game is tonight, Tuesday.
I misread the last post. My apologies!! Will you be at the game FW? If so keep us posted on your thoughts. Always love your feedback on the Falcons :)
Well Tuesday is the 23rd not the 22nd so i can understand the confusion. We really need the seasons to get here...
No, I will not be at the Messiah game tonight. With three precious children ages 2 thru 5, my time for Falcon soccer is increasingly having to take a backseat to family.
I expect Messiah to dominate start to finish. Susquehanna is a dark horse as MAF has said, but Messiah should be on another level. 3-1 predicted scoreline assuming everyone or almost everyone will get some action as the case in most scrimmages.
Any update on Messiah's GK situation? I know this was a weak spot for them last season and saw from earlier posts in the recruiting topic that they are bringing in 1 GK with the freshman class.
Final score for the pre-season scrimmage: Messiah 0 - Susquehanna 0
I wouldn't read too much into scrimmages. Typically teams play 3 30 minute periods, first period for first team group. Second period for a mix of first team group and second team guys looking to crack that group, and 30 minutes of everyone else.
Messiah's first team unit could have put Susquehanna under a ton of pressure for 30 minutes and not scored, and then it could have been a more even match when they went to the bench. Coaches of course want to win scrimmages, but they are more interested in seeing personnel and staying healthy.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 22, 2016, 03:43:08 PM
Shooter's Preseason Regional Rankings:
1.)Haverford
2.) Lycoming
3.) Messiah
4.) F&M
5.) Dickinson
6.) Etown
7.) Eastern
8.) Scranton
9.) Cabrini
10.) Hopkins
I think the top 5 is already set but the order is definitely up for grabs. I cannot see any of those teams not being in the top 5 of the region when it's all said and done this season. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the teams in the 6-10 slots. Anybody have any other sleeper teams that could jump in? My thoughts were Kings, Misericordia, Gettysburg, Alvernia, and Swarthmore.
Kings, Miseri or Gettysburg I could see. I do not envision Alvernia or Swat jumping in. Swat is still living off its past reputation, they are a competitive and scrappy team but not even close to as talented as they used to be. Alvernia is primed for a tough year I think. Lost their best player to transfer from last year and apparently didn't get much talent in this years recruiting class.
Quote from: Madared on August 23, 2016, 09:10:57 PM
Final score for the pre-season scrimmage: Messiah 0 - Susquehanna 0
Yikes. Regardless of who Messiah puts in the game this should still be a win.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Messiah travels to Princeton this weekend to scrimmage Princeton and Columbia. Hi
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 25, 2016, 09:19:31 AM
Quote from: Madared on August 23, 2016, 09:10:57 PM
Final score for the pre-season scrimmage: Messiah 0 - Susquehanna 0
Yikes. Regardless of who Messiah puts in the game this should still be a win.
Yikes is right! I agree with luckylefty that no one should read into scrimmages too much but that's not a good result no matter how you look at it. Messiah's freshman class alone should dismantle Susquehanna so that has to be a concerning start for Falcon Nation. Does anybody know how they played? Did they play projected starters at all? More upperclassmen? More younger guys? All of that does factor in but for the expectation of Messiah that has got to be concerning.
youtu.be/kxf8ftLBgQM?a
A sleeper in the Freedom that I think will make some noise this year and surprise a lot of people. The Freedom is wide open. Kings loses a ton of players and will be rebuilding. Misericordia has a new coach but a solid core to work with. Manhattanville has a new coach but looks promising to make a run. Eastern, who is most likely the favorite, loses a few key players as well. The preseason poll for this conference should be released today based off the website information I found.
I would go with this:
1. Eastern
2. Manhattanville
3. Misericordia
4. Kings
5. FDU-Florham
6. Desales
7. Wilkes
8. Delaware Valley
I think you will see the coaches poll go with Eastern, Kings, Misericordia, Manhattanville with 1-4.
Quote from: rudy on August 25, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Messiah travels to Princeton this weekend to scrimmage Princeton and Columbia. Hi
Thanks for the info this will be a good test for them. Keep us posted on results if possible.
2016 MAC Commonwealth Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
MAC Commonwealth Pre-Season Rankings
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Lycoming 62 (6)
2 Messiah 59 (3)
3 Arcadia 43
4 Lebanon Valley 42
5 Alvernia 34
6 Widener 31
7 Hood 28
8 Stevenson 17
9 Albright 8
2016 MAC Freedom Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Eastern 49 (7)
2 King's 40
3 Manhattanville 35
4 FDU-Florham 29
5 Misericordia 27
6 DeSales 24
7 Wilkes 12
8 Delaware Valley 8
Quote from: FootyFan on August 26, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
2016 MAC Commonwealth Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
MAC Commonwealth Pre-Season Rankings
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Lycoming 62 (6)
2 Messiah 59 (3)
3 Arcadia 43
4 Lebanon Valley 42
5 Alvernia 34
6 Widener 31
7 Hood 28
8 Stevenson 17
9 Albright 8
When is the last time Messiah wasn't pre-season favorite?
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 26, 2016, 08:39:56 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 25, 2016, 09:19:31 AM
Quote from: Madared on August 23, 2016, 09:10:57 PM
Final score for the pre-season scrimmage: Messiah 0 - Susquehanna 0
Yikes. Regardless of who Messiah puts in the game this should still be a win.
Yikes is right! I agree with luckylefty that no one should read into scrimmages too much but that's not a good result no matter how you look at it. Messiah's freshman class alone should dismantle Susquehanna so that has to be a concerning start for Falcon Nation. Does anybody know how they played? Did they play projected starters at all? More upperclassmen? More younger guys? All of that does factor in but for the expectation of Messiah that has got to be concerning.
I was told Messiah dominated possession but just did not get the result. Soccer can be like that. No stats for exhibition so can't say how many shots, corners, etc.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on August 26, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: FootyFan on August 26, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
2016 MAC Commonwealth Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
MAC Commonwealth Pre-Season Rankings
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Lycoming 62 (6)
2 Messiah 59 (3)
3 Arcadia 43
4 Lebanon Valley 42
5 Alvernia 34
6 Widener 31
7 Hood 28
8 Stevenson 17
9 Albright 8
When is the last time Messiah wasn't pre-season favorite?
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/news/2016/8/26/mens-soccer-warriors-top-mac-commonwealth-preseason-poll.aspx
According to the above article 2000 was the last time Messiah wasn't the favorite. Wow!
Also we haven't heard much about Lycoming's incoming class. Still no article I could find about newcomers but they are listed on the roster. 15 in total which is a surprisingly large group for a team that graduated zero players from a season ago.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/roster.aspx?path=msoc
Quote from: FootyFan on August 26, 2016, 11:08:41 AM
2016 MAC Freedom Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Eastern 49 (7)
2 King's 40
3 Manhattanville 35
4 FDU-Florham 29
5 Misericordia 27
6 DeSales 24
7 Wilkes 12
8 Delaware Valley 8
Very surprised that Kings is at #2. Lost many pieces to the puzzle from the past few years.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 10:17:58 AM
Quote from: rudy on August 25, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Messiah travels to Princeton this weekend to scrimmage Princeton and Columbia. Hi
Thanks for the info this will be a good test for them. Keep us posted on results if possible.
Tied both games 0-0.had good chances against Columbia.
Quote from: rudy on August 27, 2016, 09:15:37 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 10:17:58 AM
Quote from: rudy on August 25, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Messiah travels to Princeton this weekend to scrimmage Princeton and Columbia. Hi
Thanks for the info this will be a good test for them. Keep us posted on results if possible.
Tied both games 0-0.had good chances against Columbia.
Solid results for sure. Were you at either game Rudy? Defense sounds like it is tighter than last years which they needed but I am surprised by the lack of goals. I am sure they will come soon though! Any other thoughts? Thanks for the updates.
Any other results from the weekend?
Scrimmage
Ursinus 1 - Widener 0
Scrimmages
Alvernia 2 - Immaculata 1
Alvernia 2 - Marywood 1
I don't know the details but Eastern and Haverford tied 2-2.
Scrimmage
Gettysburg 2 - Etown 1
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on August 26, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: FootyFan on August 26, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
2016 MAC Commonwealth Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
MAC Commonwealth Pre-Season Rankings
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Lycoming 62 (6)
2 Messiah 59 (3)
3 Arcadia 43
4 Lebanon Valley 42
5 Alvernia 34
6 Widener 31
7 Hood 28
8 Stevenson 17
9 Albright 8
When is the last time Messiah wasn't pre-season favorite?
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/news/2016/8/26/mens-soccer-warriors-top-mac-commonwealth-preseason-poll.aspx
According to the above article 2000 was the last time Messiah wasn't the favorite. Wow!
Also we haven't heard much about Lycoming's incoming class. Still no article I could find about newcomers but they are listed on the roster. 15 in total which is a surprisingly large group for a team that graduated zero players from a season ago.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/roster.aspx?path=msoc
Lycoming's recruiting class is very, very good. They brought in quality hard working players and they brought in a lot of them. It is a bit strange to bring in so many without really losing any players from last year but I would think they will play 30 different players a game in like 20 minute shifts. They will be the hardest working team in the country and as long as the players buy into limited minutes and team over everything they will be a great team again this year.
Quote from: FootyFan on August 29, 2016, 03:34:23 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on August 26, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: FootyFan on August 26, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
2016 MAC Commonwealth Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
MAC Commonwealth Pre-Season Rankings
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Lycoming 62 (6)
2 Messiah 59 (3)
3 Arcadia 43
4 Lebanon Valley 42
5 Alvernia 34
6 Widener 31
7 Hood 28
8 Stevenson 17
9 Albright 8
When is the last time Messiah wasn't pre-season favorite?
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/news/2016/8/26/mens-soccer-warriors-top-mac-commonwealth-preseason-poll.aspx
According to the above article 2000 was the last time Messiah wasn't the favorite. Wow!
Also we haven't heard much about Lycoming's incoming class. Still no article I could find about newcomers but they are listed on the roster. 15 in total which is a surprisingly large group for a team that graduated zero players from a season ago.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/roster.aspx?path=msoc
Lycoming's recruiting class is very, very good. They brought in quality hard working players and they brought in a lot of them. It is a bit strange to bring in so many without really losing any players from last year but I would think they will play 30 different players a game in like 20 minute shifts. They will be the hardest working team in the country and as long as the players buy into limited minutes and team over everything they will be a great team again this year.
I second that FootyFan. I am sure they will lose a few that are selfish or frustrated with the lack of play time, but for the ones that buy in they can expect to have another good year. Any info on how their scrimmages went this preseason or who they faced?
Quote from: rudy on August 27, 2016, 09:15:37 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 10:17:58 AM
Quote from: rudy on August 25, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Messiah travels to Princeton this weekend to scrimmage Princeton and Columbia. Hi
Thanks for the info this will be a good test for them. Keep us posted on results if possible.
Tied both games 0-0.had good chances against Columbia.
Does this mean the GK issues are solved? 0 goals allowed in 3 scrimmages...but 0 goals scored in those 3 as well.
Quote from: FootyFan on August 29, 2016, 03:34:23 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on August 26, 2016, 12:34:51 PM
Quote from: FootyFan on August 26, 2016, 11:07:11 AM
2016 MAC Commonwealth Men's Soccer Preseason Poll
MAC Commonwealth Pre-Season Rankings
Rank Team Points (1st Place Votes)
1 Lycoming 62 (6)
2 Messiah 59 (3)
3 Arcadia 43
4 Lebanon Valley 42
5 Alvernia 34
6 Widener 31
7 Hood 28
8 Stevenson 17
9 Albright 8
When is the last time Messiah wasn't pre-season favorite?
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/news/2016/8/26/mens-soccer-warriors-top-mac-commonwealth-preseason-poll.aspx
According to the above article 2000 was the last time Messiah wasn't the favorite. Wow!
Also we haven't heard much about Lycoming's incoming class. Still no article I could find about newcomers but they are listed on the roster. 15 in total which is a surprisingly large group for a team that graduated zero players from a season ago.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/roster.aspx?path=msoc
Lycoming's recruiting class is very, very good. They brought in quality hard working players and they brought in a lot of them. It is a bit strange to bring in so many without really losing any players from last year but I would think they will play 30 different players a game in like 20 minute shifts. They will be the hardest working team in the country and as long as the players buy into limited minutes and team over everything they will be a great team again this year.
Would they really play that way? That is not soccer, just a war of attrition.
30 seems a bit high to me and would be hard to do. I think they will be similar to last season where they played typically 18-22 guys a game. This might jump up to more of a 20-24 guys a game rotation from the sounds of it, but I can't see any team playing 30 guys a game unless it is a blowout.
Quote from: FootyFan on August 29, 2016, 03:29:21 PM
Scrimmage
Gettysburg 2 - Etown 1
Is Gettysburg a sleeper this year?
http://landmarkconference.org/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/08302016msocpreseason
Scranton favored over Etown in the Landmark.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 29, 2016, 10:03:24 AM
Quote from: rudy on August 27, 2016, 09:15:37 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 26, 2016, 10:17:58 AM
Quote from: rudy on August 25, 2016, 06:11:41 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on August 22, 2016, 11:49:25 PM
As per Messiah facebook post...
Messiah will play Susquehanna Univ Tuesday (8/22) @ Messiah
Messiah travels to Princeton this weekend to scrimmage Princeton and Columbia. Hi
Thanks for the info this will be a good test for them. Keep us posted on results if possible.
Tied both games 0-0.had good chances against Columbia.
Solid results for sure. Were you at either game Rudy? Defense sounds like it is tighter than last years which they needed but I am surprised by the lack of goals. I am sure they will come soon though! Any other thoughts? Thanks for the updates.
Any other results from the weekend?
I was not but I did watch some video of both games. It looked like Princeton did not play top players from last year. Mostly having a look at new players or players that had limited playing time last year as freshman. Columbia looked to play more players I think but not easy to tell in an exhibition when players switch off more frequently. Messiah had 2 shots that were close to goals on Columbia. One looked like it went in on video but I guess it hit crossbar. Only one decent shot on Messiah came from Princeton. No real threat of scoring other than that. I think they will get some goals this weekend in Virginia. Looked like one starting mid was out for this game. Not sure if back for weekend games
Rowan beats Lycoming 3-2 @ Lycoming.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 01, 2016, 10:59:12 PM
Rowan beats Lycoming 3-2 @ Lycoming.
Did anybody else watch this game?
I only caught the second half of the game and from that here's my take...it was a tough, chippy, physical match as you would expect when any NJAC team is playing and it was a back and forth affair throughout the half. I would imagine the first half was similar? The officiating unfortunately ruined the game and disrupted the flow for both teams. 2 PK's that you normally don't see called in games (little scuffles in the box that could be called on every play) and then he missed 2 PK calls that were actually PKs for Lycoming late in the half. Rowan was tougher and scrappier throughout the half. They played out of trouble well while Lycoming gave up the third goal by a bad turnover from their defense. I think many would agree that a tie would have been the fair result but props to Rowan for winning on the road at a place that many struggle to win at.
Overall I think both teams are very good and will be contenders come NCAA's. One major issue I see for Lycoming is their GK issues. I believe it is the same one from last season but correct me if I am wrong. The second and third goals given up by Lycoming were savable in my opinion. If Messiah fixed their GK problems from last season then they might find themselves back a top the MAC.
Rowan on the other hand was solid all the way around. 3 goals on the road vs a very good defensive team is impressive. No one will be overlooking the Profs this season. I thought their CB and GK played outstanding from what I saw and were a big reason for the win yesterday. I will be interested to see how they perform on short rest vs Wash&Lee and Oneonta St this weekend. If they survive those 2 games they will be top 5 in the country in the first poll.
Great way to start the season! Other notables from around the region...
Eastern 8-1 over Bryn Athyn
F&M 4-1 over Alvernia
York over Randolph 3-1
Muhlenberg over Centenary 2-1
Manhattanville over Elms 2-0
Hopkins and Goucher 1-1 draw
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 02, 2016, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 01, 2016, 10:59:12 PM
Rowan beats Lycoming 3-2 @ Lycoming.
Did anybody else watch this game?
I only caught the second half of the game and from that here's my take...it was a tough, chippy, physical match as you would expect when any NJAC team is playing and it was a back and forth affair throughout the half. I would imagine the first half was similar? The officiating unfortunately ruined the game and disrupted the flow for both teams. 2 PK's that you normally don't see called in games (little scuffles in the box that could be called on every play) and then he missed 2 PK calls that were actually PKs for Lycoming late in the half. Rowan was tougher and scrappier throughout the half. They played out of trouble well while Lycoming gave up the third goal by a bad turnover from their defense. I think many would agree that a tie would have been the fair result but props to Rowan for winning on the road at a place that many struggle to win at.
Overall I think both teams are very good and will be contenders come NCAA's. One major issue I see for Lycoming is their GK issues. I believe it is the same one from last season but correct me if I am wrong. The second and third goals given up by Lycoming were savable in my opinion. If Messiah fixed their GK problems from last season then they might find themselves back a top the MAC.
Rowan on the other hand was solid all the way around. 3 goals on the road vs a very good defensive team is impressive. No one will be overlooking the Profs this season. I thought their CB and GK played outstanding from what I saw and were a big reason for the win yesterday. I will be interested to see how they perform on short rest vs Wash&Lee and Oneonta St this weekend. If they survive those 2 games they will be top 5 in the country in the first poll.
Great way to start the season! Other notables from around the region...
Eastern 8-1 over Bryn Athyn
F&M 4-1 over Alvernia
York over Randolph 3-1
Muhlenberg over Centenary 2-1
Manhattanville over Elms 2-0
Hopkins and Goucher 1-1 draw
I watched a bit; why does Lycoming give you a 60 second preview in HD and then revert you to SD unless you want to pay to watch? Nothing to do with the game I know, but just an observation.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on September 02, 2016, 09:48:33 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 02, 2016, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 01, 2016, 10:59:12 PM
Rowan beats Lycoming 3-2 @ Lycoming.
Did anybody else watch this game?
I only caught the second half of the game and from that here's my take...it was a tough, chippy, physical match as you would expect when any NJAC team is playing and it was a back and forth affair throughout the half. I would imagine the first half was similar? The officiating unfortunately ruined the game and disrupted the flow for both teams. 2 PK's that you normally don't see called in games (little scuffles in the box that could be called on every play) and then he missed 2 PK calls that were actually PKs for Lycoming late in the half. Rowan was tougher and scrappier throughout the half. They played out of trouble well while Lycoming gave up the third goal by a bad turnover from their defense. I think many would agree that a tie would have been the fair result but props to Rowan for winning on the road at a place that many struggle to win at.
Overall I think both teams are very good and will be contenders come NCAA's. One major issue I see for Lycoming is their GK issues. I believe it is the same one from last season but correct me if I am wrong. The second and third goals given up by Lycoming were savable in my opinion. If Messiah fixed their GK problems from last season then they might find themselves back a top the MAC.
Rowan on the other hand was solid all the way around. 3 goals on the road vs a very good defensive team is impressive. No one will be overlooking the Profs this season. I thought their CB and GK played outstanding from what I saw and were a big reason for the win yesterday. I will be interested to see how they perform on short rest vs Wash&Lee and Oneonta St this weekend. If they survive those 2 games they will be top 5 in the country in the first poll.
Great way to start the season! Other notables from around the region...
Eastern 8-1 over Bryn Athyn
F&M 4-1 over Alvernia
York over Randolph 3-1
Muhlenberg over Centenary 2-1
Manhattanville over Elms 2-0
Hopkins and Goucher 1-1 draw
I watched a bit; why does Lycoming give you a 60 second preview in HD and then revert you to SD unless you want to pay to watch? Nothing to do with the game I know, but just an observation.
Was wondering the same thing. I tuned into a little of it as well. I thought Lycoming wasn't as good defensively as they looked last year. Disappointing start for them but I am sure they will get back on the right track. On the other side of things, Rowan will be a tough out for many teams this year. #6 CB is as good as advertised and almost willed his team to victory. By far he was the best player on the field. Look for Rowan to have a nice run in the NJAC.
Some schools do this to get you to pay an extra $5 for the HD version because of the much better quality. I think it is ridiculous and some of this complained about this last year. I remember Vassar and Hobart doing the same thing.
That is a big time win for Rowan 3-2 which will look really good in November. With Lycoming's improved schedule this year they need to be careful of not getting to many losses or they will be an AQ only team. On the other hand this gives them more chances for "good" wins but they must actually go out and actually beat some of these teams on their schedule. 5 or 6 losses will not cut it for Lycoming as their schedule is not that good. But hey at least they are not afraid to scheudle these type of games. Messiah on the other hand really disappointed with their schedule and could be around a .540-.550 SOS which means the 2 or 3 ranked teams they play this year they better beat.
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 02, 2016, 12:04:31 PM
Some schools do this to get you to pay an extra $5 for the HD version because of the much better quality. I think it is ridiculous and some of this complained about this last year. I remember Vassar and Hobart doing the same thing.
Right sorry to derail the thread; but how many people actually shell out the money for this? Can't be many...doesn't make sense.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 02, 2016, 09:02:17 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 01, 2016, 10:59:12 PM
Rowan beats Lycoming 3-2 @ Lycoming.
Did anybody else watch this game?
I only caught the second half of the game and from that here's my take...it was a tough, chippy, physical match as you would expect when any NJAC team is playing and it was a back and forth affair throughout the half. I would imagine the first half was similar? The officiating unfortunately ruined the game and disrupted the flow for both teams. 2 PK's that you normally don't see called in games (little scuffles in the box that could be called on every play) and then he missed 2 PK calls that were actually PKs for Lycoming late in the half. Rowan was tougher and scrappier throughout the half. They played out of trouble well while Lycoming gave up the third goal by a bad turnover from their defense. I think many would agree that a tie would have been the fair result but props to Rowan for winning on the road at a place that many struggle to win at.
Overall I think both teams are very good and will be contenders come NCAA's. One major issue I see for Lycoming is their GK issues. I believe it is the same one from last season but correct me if I am wrong. The second and third goals given up by Lycoming were savable in my opinion. If Messiah fixed their GK problems from last season then they might find themselves back a top the MAC.
Rowan on the other hand was solid all the way around. 3 goals on the road vs a very good defensive team is impressive. No one will be overlooking the Profs this season. I thought their CB and GK played outstanding from what I saw and were a big reason for the win yesterday. I will be interested to see how they perform on short rest vs Wash&Lee and Oneonta St this weekend. If they survive those 2 games they will be top 5 in the country in the first poll.
Great way to start the season! Other notables from around the region...
Eastern 8-1 over Bryn Athyn
F&M 4-1 over Alvernia
York over Randolph 3-1
Muhlenberg over Centenary 2-1
Manhattanville over Elms 2-0
Hopkins and Goucher 1-1 draw
Messiah 2 Roanoke 1
Roanoke scored on perfect pass from halfway line with 15 seconds left in game. Messiah got 1 in first half from #5 Colby Thomas and I think second from Kirby Robbins. A couple other close attempts...one off crossbar and one stretch save on a free kick. Roanoke has some skilled players and had moments of crisp passing but did not have enough of it. Messiah maintained possession probably 2/3 of the game. Messiah keeper had a few saves but most shots were straight at him. Didn't make any mistakes really.
Etown won 3-0 against Hobart!
TCNJ 5 Dickinson 1
That is the first shocker of the earlier season.
I am sure coach Redding is not happy and will get the Red Devils going against Hobart.
As Rudy said, "Messiah maintained possession probably 2/3 of the game. Messiah keeper had a few saves but most shots were straight at him. Didn't make any mistakes really."
This is significant, if you consider how the Falcons started last year, giving up more goals in a few games than they typically yield in a whole season. They needed to get better in the back, quickly, and there are reasons to think that they did. Ditto for possession, the engine that has always driven their offense.
Other points of note: the Falcons started one senior, their best all-around player, defender Jacob Bender (who nearly scored on a header). Five sophomore starters, one freshman starter, and four juniors including Colby Thomas, who appears finally to be healthy after injuries and a bout with major illness kept him subpar last season when they needed him so badly. He has a knack for putting balls on frame, usually hard, while also being able to go through people or to beat them into space. If he has the kind of season he's capable of having when healthy, he will score frequently this year. It's fitting that he got the first goal of the season yesterday.
Four seniors came off the bench, including David Figueroa. I'd heard he decided not to return this year, but so much for that piece of information. One of the seniors, Will Cochrane, is really in his third year owing to a medical redshirt, so maybe the top returning scorer will still have one more after this. All told, this solid win against a team with good talent and coaching is something to be happy about, especially in light of the awful start last fall.
Quote from: backyarddawg on September 03, 2016, 07:05:34 AM
TCNJ 5 Dickinson 1
That is the first shocker of the earlier season.
I am sure coach Redding is not happy and will get the Red Devils going against Hobart.
Wow that's a tough loss. Maybe game just got away from them but 5-1 sounds like a reason for concern.
Quote from: Falconer on September 03, 2016, 08:03:34 AM
As Rudy said, "Messiah maintained possession probably 2/3 of the game. Messiah keeper had a few saves but most shots were straight at him. Didn't make any mistakes really."
This is significant, if you consider how the Falcons started last year, giving up more goals in a few games than they typically yield in a whole season. They needed to get better in the back, quickly, and there are reasons to think that they did. Ditto for possession, the engine that has always driven their offense.
Other points of note: the Falcons started one senior, their best all-around player, defender Jacob Bender (who nearly scored on a header). Five sophomore starters, one freshman starter, and four juniors including Colby Thomas, who appears finally to be healthy after injuries and a bout with major illness kept him subpar last season when they needed him so badly. He has a knack for putting balls on frame, usually hard, while also being able to go through people or to beat them into space. If he has the kind of season he's capable of having when healthy, he will score frequently this year. It's fitting that he got the first goal of the season yesterday.
Four seniors came off the bench, including David Figueroa. I'd heard he decided not to return this year, but so much for that piece of information. One of the seniors, Will Cochrane, is really in his third year owing to a medical redshirt, so maybe the top returning scorer will still have one more after this. All told, this solid win against a team with good talent and coaching is something to be happy about, especially in light of the awful start last fall.
Agree on Colby Thomas. I'm new to watching this team but I really like his "nose for the net". He is relentless near the goal and gets rocket shots off in a split second. Of course I think Nick, will, Kirby, Samuel, and David will score and assist on lots of goals this year. Only danger yesterday I think was giving up free kicks in dangerous areas. Other than that the defense was solid as it was in preseason. I think a couple other freshman will have an impact before the year is through.
Quote from: rudy on September 03, 2016, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: Falconer on September 03, 2016, 08:03:34 AM
As Rudy said, "Messiah maintained possession probably 2/3 of the game. Messiah keeper had a few saves but most shots were straight at him. Didn't make any mistakes really."
This is significant, if you consider how the Falcons started last year, giving up more goals in a few games than they typically yield in a whole season. They needed to get better in the back, quickly, and there are reasons to think that they did. Ditto for possession, the engine that has always driven their offense.
Other points of note: the Falcons started one senior, their best all-around player, defender Jacob Bender (who nearly scored on a header). Five sophomore starters, one freshman starter, and four juniors including Colby Thomas, who appears finally to be healthy after injuries and a bout with major illness kept him subpar last season when they needed him so badly. He has a knack for putting balls on frame, usually hard, while also being able to go through people or to beat them into space. If he has the kind of season he's capable of having when healthy, he will score frequently this year. It's fitting that he got the first goal of the season yesterday.
Four seniors came off the bench, including David Figueroa. I'd heard he decided not to return this year, but so much for that piece of information. One of the seniors, Will Cochrane, is really in his third year owing to a medical redshirt, so maybe the top returning scorer will still have one more after this. All told, this solid win against a team with good talent and coaching is something to be happy about, especially in light of the awful start last fall.
Agree on Colby Thomas. I'm new to watching this team but I really like his "nose for the net". He is relentless near the goal and gets rocket shots off in a split second. Of course I think Nick, will, Kirby, Samuel, and David will score and assist on lots of goals this year. Only danger yesterday I think was giving up free kicks in dangerous areas. Other than that the defense was solid as it was in preseason. I think a couple other freshman will have an impact before the year is through.
Robbie Johnson also.
Etown with opening weekend statement. And Haverford offering a rude welcome to the season to WNEC.
Lynchburg not only parked the bus, they never got off. I missed the first 20 minutes, but in the whole rest of the game I saw them take just one single shot, while the Falcons hit the crossbar (Jake Bender), watched Colby Thomas create something from nothing, to no avail (when his tremendous pass across the front of the goal wasn't finished off), and otherwise controlled the ball for maybe 80% of the time. Lynchburg outshot their opponent yesterday, something like 11-0, then got outshot today something like 15-1 (I missed the first part remember) and got the result they probably wanted.
Falcons looked pretty good, actually. I really like the freshman starter who somehow sneaked out of New England--he's good enough to play for anybody, so how did the NESCAC schools let him get away? A very shifty player with smarts. He's a keeper.
This one felt like a scrimmage, the way Lynchburg approached it--just take the field, kick it around a little and go home.
It ended scoreless. Sorry for the omission.
Quote from: Falconer on September 03, 2016, 07:14:52 PM
Lynchburg not only parked the bus, they never got off. I missed the first 20 minutes, but in the whole rest of the game I saw them take just one single shot, while the Falcons hit the crossbar (Jake Bender), watched Colby Thomas create something from nothing, to no avail (when his tremendous pass across the front of the goal wasn't finished off), and otherwise controlled the ball for maybe 80% of the time. Lynchburg outshot their opponent yesterday, something like 11-0, then got outshot today something like 15-1 (I missed the first part remember) and got the result they probably wanted.
Falcons looked pretty good, actually. I really like the freshman starter who somehow sneaked out of New England--he's good enough to play for anybody, so how did the NESCAC schools let him get away? A very shifty player with smarts. He's a keeper.
This one felt like a scrimmage, the way Lynchburg approached it--just take the field, kick it around a little and go home.
Yea that was a tough tie. Not sure I've ever seen a team so dominated survive with a tie! Messiah certainly deserved the win. I watched online. I think Messiah will have to figure out how to score off set pieces on corners and free kicks because they had plenty of those and did not really get any good shots on net from any of them. That's one way to score when a team parks the bus . Not sure the answer but I'm sure the coaches will figure it out. The freshman starter had offers from a few patriot league teams at d1 and many new England D3 but chose Messiah. Right fit.
Big games in the mid Atlantic today.
Brandeis hosting Haverford
F&M hosting Lycoming
York hosting Alvernia
Hopkins hosting Merchant Marines
Scranton hosting Cabrini
Kings hosting Gettysburg
Brandeis and haverford will be interesting game for sure.
Lycoming loses again today. This time 2-1 to F&M.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 04, 2016, 04:32:25 PM
Lycoming loses again today. This time 2-1 to F&M.
Watched some of this online. F&m plated well. Lycoming started season with 2 tough games. Not trying to pad schedule with easy early games that's for sure.
Quote from: rudy on September 04, 2016, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 04, 2016, 04:32:25 PM
Lycoming loses again today. This time 2-1 to F&M.
Watched some of this online. F&m plated well. Lycoming started season with 2 tough games. Not trying to pad schedule with easy early games that's for sure.
I did not catch the game unfortunately...was away for the holiday...but from a friend that watched I heard that it was pretty even throughout. F&M with a slight edge in the first half and Lycoming had the edge in the second half. 2 quick goals killed them obviously. Now from watching the Rowan game on Thursday I believe I commented on how poor the officials were both ways, and although my colleague said they were better this game, it still was a poor showing for the officiating crew. Hopefully these officials have early game jitters just as the players do, but if it's costing some teams some games that could hurt in the long run.
As rudy said earlier in this thread, Lycoming has a difficult schedule right out of the gate. I do not think they are in trouble yet, but if they drop 1 of their next 2 then we might be seeing panic mode. From what I saw vs Rowan they were a very good side and the game could have gone either way. And from what I have heard about the F&M game it was the same way. I think you will see Lycoming in the hunt at the end of the season if they can clean a few areas up.
As for my sleeper pick in Gettysburg, they are 1-1 with 2 tough games coming up vs York and Messiah...we will see how they do.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 05, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: rudy on September 04, 2016, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 04, 2016, 04:32:25 PM
Lycoming loses again today. This time 2-1 to F&M.
Watched some of this online. F&m plated well. Lycoming started season with 2 tough games. Not trying to pad schedule with easy early games that's for sure.
I did not catch the game unfortunately...was away for the holiday...but from a friend that watched I heard that it was pretty even throughout. F&M with a slight edge in the first half and Lycoming had the edge in the second half. 2 quick goals killed them obviously. Now from watching the Rowan game on Thursday I believe I commented on how poor the officials were both ways, and although my colleague said they were better this game, it still was a poor showing for the officiating crew. Hopefully these officials have early game jitters just as the players do, but if it's costing some teams some games that could hurt in the long run.
As rudy said earlier in this thread, Lycoming has a difficult schedule right out of the gate. I do not think they are in trouble yet, but if they drop 1 of their next 2 then we might be seeing panic mode. From what I saw vs Rowan they were a very good side and the game could have gone either way. And from what I have heard about the F&M game it was the same way. I think you will see Lycoming in the hunt at the end of the season if they can clean a few areas up.
As for my sleeper pick in Gettysburg, they are 1-1 with 2 tough games coming up vs York and Messiah...we will see how they do.
Gettysburg lost to Scranton on an own goal. Scranton beat Cabrini 4-0; who beat kings on a rebound off a penalty shot in OT. Cabrini and G-burg were up for the Scranton Kings opening tournament.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 04, 2016, 04:32:25 PM
Lycoming loses again today. This time 2-1 to F&M.
What would Messiah's record be if they had opened against those 2 teams? We will never know because Messiah has 3-4 legit games on its entire schedule. York, ETOWN, Lycoming and Gettysburg. I was giving McCarty credit in his tenure up to this point because compared to Brandt he would come up with a challenging schedule. This year's non-conference schedule is extremely WEAK. Now Lycoming has REALLY challenged itself but now is already 0-2-0 against ranked so they need to beat a couple of these ranked teams they play in the future. Let's remember the committee loves to see a ton of games against ranked opponents even if you are say 3-5-1 against them. 2-6-0 prob will not get it done but atleast they TRIED
In terms of NSCAA... Predictions
1. F&M. 6th
2. E-town 11th
3. Messiah 20th
4. Scranton RV
5. Haverford
6. Eastern
7. Catholic
8. Miseri
9. Gettysburg
10. JHU
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 05, 2016, 06:21:14 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 04, 2016, 04:32:25 PM
Lycoming loses again today. This time 2-1 to F&M.
What would Messiah's record be if they had opened against those 2 teams? We will never know because Messiah has 3-4 legit games on its entire schedule. York, ETOWN, Lycoming and Gettysburg. I was giving McCarty credit in his tenure up to this point because compared to Brandt he would come up with a challenging schedule. This year's non-conference schedule is extremely WEAK. Now Lycoming has REALLY challenged itself but now is already 0-2-0 against ranked so they need to beat a couple of these ranked teams they play in the future. Let's remember the committee loves to see a ton of games against ranked opponents even if you are say 3-5-1 against them. 2-6-0 prob will not get it done but atleast they TRIED
Messiah's record against those two teams would not be any worse than Lycoming's (but could be potentially better).
I agree that the four teams you list on Messiah's schedule are "legit" opponents. But I really don't understand why you are intentionally throwing the three ODAC teams on Messiah's non-conference schedule under the bus – calling them "extremely WEAK". W&L is the ODAC preseason favorite (and was a national tournament team last year and also received votes in the 2016 preseason national ranking). Roanoke is picked 2nd in the ODAC preseason poll and Lynchburg 4th. I don't agree with your assertion that these three teams are all not "legit" and "extremely WEAK". I'm sure the ODAC faithful would take exception as well. And by the way, all three of these ODAC teams have made the national tournament over the past four years.
And is Oglethorpe also "extremely WEAK"? Coming off a 10-3-3 record last year and also the best regular season conference record in the SAA.
There's nothing obviously wrong with Messiah's non-conference schedule this year--it's not "extremely WEAK" as Mr. Right describes it. It's a good idea to open the season with a 5-hour trip to VA to play two of the better teams in the ODAC in their backyard. That's an appropriate way to get a very young team up to speed. Granted, Lynchburg didn't try to play soccer on Saturday, but the last time the Falcons played them, Lynchburg not only played soccer, but they actually beat the Falcons in the national title game, only to be denied the title by a terrible non-call that resulted in Messiah tying the game with seconds left in regulation. So, it's hard to criticize McCarty for scheduling them, especially less than 24 hours after playing a good Roanoke team on their field.
I certainly agree with Mr. Right, however, that Lycoming has gone beyond the call of duty by scheduling Rowan and F&M back to back to open the season. He's right that it could prove a fatal mistake, especially if they lose one more non-conference game. Lycoming was the legitimate conference champion last fall--certainly they were better than Messiah, and no one else in the conference is close--and they lost no one to graduation while bringing in a huge number of new people. On paper you have to like their chances. But, Messiah graduated a class that wasn't as talented (definitely) as the returning sophomores and (probably also) the incoming freshmen, so it could be interesting. IMO, if Messiah and Lycoming split (regular season and conference tournament), and neither team has any major blemishes (I don't regard losing to Rowan and F&M as major blemishes), they probably both get bids. If either one wins both games, the other one probably doesn't get a bid, regardless of their records--even more so for Lycoming, since they would then have at least four losses. So, I think it will come down to their head-to-head games, which is the best way to do it anyway.
Quote from: Falconer on September 06, 2016, 09:50:11 AM
There's nothing obviously wrong with Messiah's non-conference schedule this year--it's not "extremely WEAK" as Mr. Right describes it. It's a good idea to open the season with a 5-hour trip to VA to play two of the better teams in the ODAC in their backyard. That's an appropriate way to get a very young team up to speed. Granted, Lynchburg didn't try to play soccer on Saturday, but the last time the Falcons played them, Lynchburg not only played soccer, but they actually beat the Falcons in the national title game, only to be denied the title by a terrible non-call that resulted in Messiah tying the game with seconds left in regulation. So, it's hard to criticize McCarty for scheduling them, especially less than 24 hours after playing a good Roanoke team on their field.
I certainly agree with Mr. Right, however, that Lycoming has gone beyond the call of duty by scheduling Rowan and F&M back to back to open the season. He's right that it could prove a fatal mistake, especially if they lose one more non-conference game. Lycoming was the legitimate conference champion last fall--certainly they were better than Messiah, and no one else in the conference is close--and they lost no one to graduation while bringing in a huge number of new people. On paper you have to like their chances. But, Messiah graduated a class that wasn't as talented (definitely) as the returning sophomores and (probably also) the incoming freshmen, so it could be interesting. IMO, if Messiah and Lycoming split (regular season and conference tournament), and neither team has any major blemishes (I don't regard losing to Rowan and F&M as major blemishes), they probably both get bids. If either one wins both games, the other one probably doesn't get a bid, regardless of their records--even more so for Lycoming, since they would then have at least four losses. So, I think it will come down to their head-to-head games, which is the best way to do it anyway.
I lean on the side of Mr. Right for his thoughts on Messiah's weak non-conference schedule. It is weak compared to years past and shows that they are scared to play teams like Rowan, Dickinson, Montclair, Carnegie Mellon, and others as they have always done so in the past. The ODAC is down this year. Both Roanoke and Lynchburg would not finish top half of most major conferences so the preseason #2 and #4 mean nothing. Messiah will be better than last year and the second part from Falconer is great insight. I still think Lycoming gets in with 5 blemishes whether that be 5 losses or 3 losses and 2 ties etc. Long season before we figure this out but we will have a better idea after this weekend of where everybody stands.
F&M vs York today...
A DRAW wouldn't surprise me.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 06, 2016, 10:37:37 AM
F&M vs York today...
A DRAW wouldn't surprise me.
F&M looked really good against Lycoming..at least from what I could see on streaming video for part of the game. I would be surprised if York gets a win..maybe with some luck a draw
York winning 1-0 over F&M at halftime.
F&M controls most of the game but cannot come away with the win.
Final Score
F&M 1
York 1
Messiah had the option to play a tougher schedule but after last year's smack down by Rowan and then losing twice to Lycoming i think they need to try and get they'er confidence back against a weaker schedule. They could have been in with W&L and SUNY Oneanta at the Gilmore Alumni classic at Rowan. They'er domination of D3 has come and gone!
We saw the Messiah schedule drop off in 2015 when they lost Payne, Thompson, Brandt, and Ramirez.
Messiah looked strong vs Noke. In a seemingly down year, I think Messiah will return to dominance. There are only 2 teams that could reach the Elite 8 in my opinion... Messiah and Haverford. I will have to watch Lycoming more this season, but going on a softer schedule last year and a close game vs Amherst is not indicative of a sure thing to a deeper run in 2016.
They still have a tough 7 game stretch and will seemingly have to win the MACC. Starting out 3-4-2 would put a ton of pressure on Lyco... with Miseri and THEN at Oneonta St late in the season when the Red Dragons should be in strong form.
at Susqu today... Crusaders will probably just absorb pressure and try to escape with a DRAW.
at Eastern
at Haverford
gimme vs Juniata
vs Scranton
vs Frostburg St (Frostburg could cause some problems and should not be overlooked); similar shot count vs Alvernia last year; both were 9 - 7
vs CWRU
WIN OR BUST for the WARRIORS after dropping the first two games...
Quote from: Go2Goal on September 07, 2016, 12:49:58 AM
Messiah had the option to play a tougher schedule but after last year's smack down by Rowan and then losing twice to Lycoming i think they need to try and get they'er confidence back against a weaker schedule. They could have been in with W&L and SUNY Oneanta at the Gilmore Alumni classic at Rowan. They'er domination of D3 has come and gone!
Messiah already has W&L on the schedule in the back half of a home and home. That alone would have been a disincentive to join that tournament unless you simply had 2 brackets with no crossover. I think most agree that Messiah's schedule has tailed off a bit, but playing in the Gilmore just wouldn't have made sense with W&L already committed. For either school.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
We saw the Messiah schedule drop off in 2015 when they lost Payne, Thompson, Brandt, and Ramirez.
Messiah looked strong vs Noke. In a seemingly down year, I think Messiah will return to dominance. There are only 2 teams that could reach the Elite 8 in my opinion... Messiah and Haverford. I will have to watch Lycoming more this season, but going on a softer schedule last year and a close game vs Amherst is not indicative of a sure thing to a deeper run in 2016.
They still have a tough 7 game stretch and will seemingly have to win the MACC. Starting out 3-4-2 would put a ton of pressure on Lyco... with Miseri and THEN at Oneonta St late in the season when the Red Dragons should be in strong form.
at Susqu today... Crusaders will probably just absorb pressure and try to escape with a DRAW.
at Eastern
at Haverford
gimme vs Juniata
vs Scranton
vs Frostburg St (Frostburg could cause some problems and should not be overlooked); similar shot count vs Alvernia last year; both were 9 - 7
vs CWRU
WIN OR BUST for the WARRIORS after dropping the first two games...
Sorry last guy but Messiah will not return to dominance this year and by no means will they have a shot to make the Elite 8. Messiah will be lucky to get a bid this year if they don't win the MACC.
Lycoming vs Rowan
Yellow Card to the team in 56th min after Rowan goal?
Lycoming vs F&M
Red Card to a bench player in the 60th min after the F&M goal?
Yellow Card to the team in the 75th min?
As I recall Lycoming and Rowan were national leaders in fouls and cards last year.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 07, 2016, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
We saw the Messiah schedule drop off in 2015 when they lost Payne, Thompson, Brandt, and Ramirez.
Messiah looked strong vs Noke. In a seemingly down year, I think Messiah will return to dominance. There are only 2 teams that could reach the Elite 8 in my opinion... Messiah and Haverford. I will have to watch Lycoming more this season, but going on a softer schedule last year and a close game vs Amherst is not indicative of a sure thing to a deeper run in 2016.
They still have a tough 7 game stretch and will seemingly have to win the MACC. Starting out 3-4-2 would put a ton of pressure on Lyco... with Miseri and THEN at Oneonta St late in the season when the Red Dragons should be in strong form.
at Susqu today... Crusaders will probably just absorb pressure and try to escape with a DRAW.
at Eastern
at Haverford
gimme vs Juniata
vs Scranton
vs Frostburg St (Frostburg could cause some problems and should not be overlooked); similar shot count vs Alvernia last year; both were 9 - 7
vs CWRU
WIN OR BUST for the WARRIORS after dropping the first two games...
Sorry last guy but Messiah will not return to dominance this year and by no means will they have a shot to make the Elite 8. Messiah will be lucky to get a bid this year if they don't win the MACC.
I think it is extremely difficult to get to final 4 much less win 10 national championships in 15 years as messiah accomplished. To continue that type of dominance is nearly impossible. You need to catch some breaks, stay healthy, have talent, good coaching, team chemistry, etc. Many games are determined by 1 goal so any team can lose on a given day even if they are "the better team". There are probably 30 teams that have the potential to make it to the final 4 and I would include Messiah in that group. But to expect championships every other year forever in a sport like soccer is really unrealistic for any school. Odds are that Amherst will not repeat.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 07, 2016, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
We saw the Messiah schedule drop off in 2015 when they lost Payne, Thompson, Brandt, and Ramirez.
Messiah looked strong vs Noke. In a seemingly down year, I think Messiah will return to dominance. There are only 2 teams that could reach the Elite 8 in my opinion... Messiah and Haverford. I will have to watch Lycoming more this season, but going on a softer schedule last year and a close game vs Amherst is not indicative of a sure thing to a deeper run in 2016.
They still have a tough 7 game stretch and will seemingly have to win the MACC. Starting out 3-4-2 would put a ton of pressure on Lyco... with Miseri and THEN at Oneonta St late in the season when the Red Dragons should be in strong form.
at Susqu today... Crusaders will probably just absorb pressure and try to escape with a DRAW.
at Eastern
at Haverford
gimme vs Juniata
vs Scranton
vs Frostburg St (Frostburg could cause some problems and should not be overlooked); similar shot count vs Alvernia last year; both were 9 - 7
vs CWRU
WIN OR BUST for the WARRIORS after dropping the first two games...
Sorry last guy but Messiah will not return to dominance this year and by no means will they have a shot to make the Elite 8. Messiah will be lucky to get a bid this year if they don't win the MACC.
With 10 National Championships in the last 16 years, and 5 National Championships in the last 8 years I don't think you can ever count Messiah out. This team exudes excellence which breeds winning. Sure last year may have been a bit of a "down" season for them but they seem to always rebound. I fully expect that they will rebound again.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 07, 2016, 09:50:57 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 07, 2016, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
We saw the Messiah schedule drop off in 2015 when they lost Payne, Thompson, Brandt, and Ramirez.
Messiah looked strong vs Noke. In a seemingly down year, I think Messiah will return to dominance. There are only 2 teams that could reach the Elite 8 in my opinion... Messiah and Haverford. I will have to watch Lycoming more this season, but going on a softer schedule last year and a close game vs Amherst is not indicative of a sure thing to a deeper run in 2016.
They still have a tough 7 game stretch and will seemingly have to win the MACC. Starting out 3-4-2 would put a ton of pressure on Lyco... with Miseri and THEN at Oneonta St late in the season when the Red Dragons should be in strong form.
at Susqu today... Crusaders will probably just absorb pressure and try to escape with a DRAW.
at Eastern
at Haverford
gimme vs Juniata
vs Scranton
vs Frostburg St (Frostburg could cause some problems and should not be overlooked); similar shot count vs Alvernia last year; both were 9 - 7
vs CWRU
WIN OR BUST for the WARRIORS after dropping the first two games...
Sorry last guy but Messiah will not return to dominance this year and by no means will they have a shot to make the Elite 8. Messiah will be lucky to get a bid this year if they don't win the MACC.
With 10 National Championships in the last 16 years, and 5 National Championships in the last 8 years I don't think you can ever count Messiah out. This team exudes excellence which breeds winning. Sure last year may have been a bit of a "down" season for them but they seem to always rebound. I fully expect that they will rebound again.
They still aren't the same quality or team that they have "bread" in the past...wait and see
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 09:03:23 AM
Lycoming vs Rowan
Yellow Card to the team in 56th min after Rowan goal?
Lycoming vs F&M
Red Card to a bench player in the 60th min after the F&M goal?
Yellow Card to the team in the 75th min?
I only watched the first game and as I mentioned the officiating crew ruined the game for both teams. 2 PKs (1 each) that should never be called PKs, then 2 no call PKs for Lycoming that should have been called. A complete nightmare so it is understandable that some disagreement would have occurred in the Rowan match. I am not saying it is okay, but it is at least understandable because many coaches would have reacted the same way.
As for F&M I only got feedback from a colleague as mentioned in previous posts. Not sure what the "team" cards were for without watching but from your post it looks to be after one of the goals. Something that many teams need to work on is dissent towards officials. Amherst was similar in many games last season and I remember many posts about Serpone and other coaches that lose their cool. But it seems the most overly energetic coaches also have produced some of the best teams.
Let's all hope it's first game rust for officials and teams and it gets cleaned up as the year goes along. :)
In other news, F&M with a tie vs York after statistically dominating the Spartans. Just one of those days for the Diplomats. Still a very strong start to the season for them.
And for Messiah, they will be better than last season and make the NCAA tournament one way or another...but they aren't the Messiah that has won 10/16. I see them right now as an early exit (1st or 2nd round).
Some notable games this afternoon around the region:
Catholic @ Mary Washington
Muhlenberg @ Scranton
Frostburg State @ Johns Hopkins
Lycoming @ Susquehanna
Alvernia @ Rutgers-Camden
How I would rank them after the first couple games...
Mid-Atlantic Regional Rankings:
1. F&M
2. Scranton
3. Etown
4. Haverford
5. Eastern
6. Messiah
7. Catholic
8. Manhattanville
I heard from a spectator at the rowan game that the Lycoming bench and players were going crazy from the opening tap. Players and coaches cursing not a lot of discipline.
Hopefully they get that under control.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 07, 2016, 01:32:45 PM
How I would rank them after the first couple games...
Mid-Atlantic Regional Rankings:
1. F&M
2. Scranton
3. Etown
4. Haverford
5. Eastern
6. Messiah
7. Catholic
8. Manhattanville
F&M and Messiah play 2 common opponents this weekend so it will be interesting to see the results. Oglethorpe and Oswego
Results from the notables last night:
Catholic @ Mary Washington MW wins nail biter 2-1 in OT
Muhlenberg @ Scranton Scranton wins 2-0 convincingly
Frostburg State @ JHU JHU dominates FSU with 2-0 win
Lycoming @ Susquehanna Lycoming thumps SU with 4-0 road win
Alvernia @ Rutgers-Camden Camden wins 1-0 in 2OT
Alvernia now 0-3 with losses to F&M, York, and Camden...still have Haverford, Eastern, Stockton, Cabrini, and Etown left all in a row...not to mention Messiah and Lycoming in conference :o
1. F&M
2. Haverford
3. Scranton
4. Etown
5. Eastern
6. Messiah
7. Hopkins
8. Lycoming
This is what I would go with.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 08, 2016, 10:22:22 AM
Results from the notables last night:
Catholic @ Mary Washington MW wins nail biter 2-1 in OT
Muhlenberg @ Scranton Scranton wins 2-0 convincingly
Frostburg State @ JHU JHU dominates FSU with 2-0 win
Lycoming @ Susquehanna Lycoming thumps SU with 4-0 road win
Alvernia @ Rutgers-Camden Camden wins 1-0 in 2OT
Alvernia now 0-3 with losses to F&M, York, and Camden...still have Haverford, Eastern, Stockton, Cabrini, and Etown left all in a row...not to mention Messiah and Lycoming in conference :o
Tonight result:
Messiah 5 Ogelthorpe 1
Sort of expected but nonetheless Oglethorpe only lost by 1 goal the last 2 games so note sure how competitive they would be. Things will not get better for them against F&M tomorrow.
Quote from: rudy on September 09, 2016, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 08, 2016, 10:22:22 AM
Results from the notables last night:
Catholic @ Mary Washington MW wins nail biter 2-1 in OT
Muhlenberg @ Scranton Scranton wins 2-0 convincingly
Frostburg State @ JHU JHU dominates FSU with 2-0 win
Lycoming @ Susquehanna Lycoming thumps SU with 4-0 road win
Alvernia @ Rutgers-Camden Camden wins 1-0 in 2OT
Alvernia now 0-3 with losses to F&M, York, and Camden...still have Haverford, Eastern, Stockton, Cabrini, and Etown left all in a row...not to mention Messiah and Lycoming in conference :o
Tonight result:
Messiah 5 Ogelthorpe 1
Sort of expected but nonetheless Oglethorpe only lost by 1 goal the last 2 games so note sure how competitive they would be. Things will not get better for them against F&M tomorrow.
F&M 2 Oswego 0
Quote from: rudy on September 09, 2016, 09:20:13 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 08, 2016, 10:22:22 AM
Results from the notables last night:
Catholic @ Mary Washington MW wins nail biter 2-1 in OT
Muhlenberg @ Scranton Scranton wins 2-0 convincingly
Frostburg State @ JHU JHU dominates FSU with 2-0 win
Lycoming @ Susquehanna Lycoming thumps SU with 4-0 road win
Alvernia @ Rutgers-Camden Camden wins 1-0 in 2OT
Alvernia now 0-3 with losses to F&M, York, and Camden...still have Haverford, Eastern, Stockton, Cabrini, and Etown left all in a row...not to mention Messiah and Lycoming in conference :o
Tonight result:
Messiah 5 Ogelthorpe 1
Sort of expected but nonetheless Oglethorpe only lost by 1 goal the last 2 games so note sure how competitive they would be. Things will not get better for them against F&M tomorrow.
What to make of f&m tie 0-0 with Oglethorpe? Messiah handled them easily
Falcons playing beautifully tonight vs Oswego, 3-0 late in the game. Colby Thomas a highlight goal early in the second half. Oswego appeared to get a goal on a corner kick, but they were offside. Otherwise they have battled without really threatening. Despite the fact that their schedule so far has not been as strong as it was last fall (as many have noted), they are simply playing a great deal better. They gave up 4 goals each to Rowan and CMU last year, looking simply terrible in the back and good up front; this year they look very good on both ends. Those problems have been addressed.
Quote from: Falconer on September 10, 2016, 08:50:59 PM
Falcons playing beautifully tonight vs Oswego, 3-0 late in the game. Colby Thomas a highlight goal early in the second half. Oswego appeared to get a goal on a corner kick, but they were offside. Otherwise they have battled without really threatening. Despite the fact that their schedule so far has not been as strong as it was last fall (as many have noted), they are simply playing a great deal better. They gave up 4 goals each to Rowan and CMU last year, looking simply terrible in the back and good up front; this year they look very good on both ends. Those problems have been addressed.
Most notable from the stats are how few shots are allowed compared to shots taken. Teams are getting very few opportunities to get shots ...much less quality shots on goal. We'll see if they can keep that up against teams like Lycoming, etown, Gettysburg, w&l.
Quote from: rudy on September 11, 2016, 07:30:15 AM
Quote from: Falconer on September 10, 2016, 08:50:59 PM
Falcons playing beautifully tonight vs Oswego, 3-0 late in the game. Colby Thomas a highlight goal early in the second half. Oswego appeared to get a goal on a corner kick, but they were offside. Otherwise they have battled without really threatening. Despite the fact that their schedule so far has not been as strong as it was last fall (as many have noted), they are simply playing a great deal better. They gave up 4 goals each to Rowan and CMU last year, looking simply terrible in the back and good up front; this year they look very good on both ends. Those problems have been addressed.
Most notable from the stats are how few shots are allowed compared to shots taken. Teams are getting very few opportunities to get shots ...much less quality shots on goal. We'll see if they can keep that up against teams like Lycoming, etown, Gettysburg, w&l.
Also should point out that freshman mica fritz started in midfield last night due to injuries and played well. Another freshman Brit Haseltine scored his first goal late in the game.
This morning there is a nice highlight clip on the Falcon home page: http://www.gomessiah.com/index.aspx?path=msoc&tab=soccer
If you haven't seen them play this fall I recommend it, b/c it shows two things that are different from last fall. (1) Both highlights (one from each of the past two games) feature Colby Thomas, the junior who hasn't really gotten his moment in the Sun until now. His first year he played behind that great senior class and got major time only when Danny Brandt went down for a month with a leg injury (it was my view when he subbed for Danny that he was actually even better than Danny and as good as any of the seniors). His second year the was injured himself and then he had a bout with mono, so we didn't really see him fully healthy. (2) Notice that the player who receives Colby's great pass on the first highlight, Jacob Bender, is a defender--even though this is not a set play, and Bender receives the ball right in front of the goal. Last year when things got bad the Falcons started bringing Jacob closer to the front (while still playing a defender position). This year that seems to be standard operating procedure. Jacob is IMO the best all-around player on the team, and one of the greatest Falcon players ever--I have him as a stater on my all-time team, though obviously opinions will differ on that type of judgement. Certainly he belongs in that conversation.
So, watching that highlight gives others two of the reasons I am convinced that the Falcons are in fact a tournament-quality team again (whether or not they actually get there, given that the rest of the schedule includes teams like Lycoming, W&L, and Etown, all of whom are also tournament-level teams). Compared with the great teams of 2-4 years ago, last year's team was 2-3 steps down defensively and 1-2 steps down offensively. This year they are no more than 1 step down defensively (with Jacob the only senior there) and likewise on offense. If this very young team matures well over the next two months, no one will look forward to playing them come November. The talent is there. It's just a matter of time and chemistry.
Quote from: Falconer on September 11, 2016, 09:42:18 AM
This morning there is a nice highlight clip on the Falcon home page: http://www.gomessiah.com/index.aspx?path=msoc&tab=soccer
If you haven't seen them play this fall I recommend it, b/c it shows two things that are different from last fall. (1) Both highlights (one from each of the past two games) feature Colby Thomas, the junior who hasn't really gotten his moment in the Sun until now. His first year he played behind that great senior class and got major time only when Danny Brandt went down for a month with a leg injury (it was my view when he subbed for Danny that he was actually even better than Danny and as good as any of the seniors). His second year the was injured himself and then he had a bout with mono, so we didn't really see him fully healthy. (2) Notice that the player who receives Colby's great pass on the first highlight, Jacob Bender, is a defender--even though this is not a set play, and Bender receives the ball right in front of the goal. Last year when things got bad the Falcons started bringing Jacob closer to the front (while still playing a defender position). This year that seems to be standard operating procedure. Jacob is IMO the best all-around player on the team, and one of the greatest Falcon players ever--I have him as a stater on my all-time team, though obviously opinions will differ on that type of judgement. Certainly he belongs in that conversation.
So, watching that highlight gives others two of the reasons I am convinced that the Falcons are in fact a tournament-quality team again (whether or not they actually get there, given that the rest of the schedule includes teams like Lycoming, W&L, and Etown, all of whom are also tournament-level teams). Compared with the great teams of 2-4 years ago, last year's team was 2-3 steps down defensively and 1-2 steps down offensively. This year they are no more than 1 step down defensively (with Jacob the only senior there) and likewise on offense. If this very young team matures well over the next two months, no one will look forward to playing them come November. The talent is there. It's just a matter of time and chemistry.
Jacob is midfielder..his brother Josh is right back. Again, agree with Colby. Hope he stays healthy this season! They already look like chemistry is improving each game.
Are there really that many people who assume Messiah won't will be right back in the national contender/title chase? Is there some idea that Messiah stopped recruiting or that they are suddenly less appealing to the kind of kids they have appealed to traditionally? Just 2 brief years ago (when lost to Tufts) they were considered the best team in the country (and by a significant margin). One year barely missing out on the NCAA tourney doesn't change the overall trajectory of the program earned over a couple of decades (and more than one stellar recruiting class). Whether they will ever win 3-4 titles in a row as before I think is a different issue as there are now more than a handful of programs that are nationally competitive year in and year out.
Rudy, I appreciate the correction about Jacob Bender now playing MF rather than outside back--where he was last season, even when he started coming pretty far forward later in the season. (In the Etown game, for example, he was inside the box during the run of play often enough that I remember noticing it.) I didn't realize that he's been moved to MF, b/c I have not yet seen a game in person. I've seen maybe 150 minutes of live streaming, and most of that time the Falcons possessed the ball in their opponents end. So, seeing Jacob in the middle of the attack wasn't unusual (he did that a lot last year as a defender), whereas it was uncommon to get full views of the defensive end via the camera. I wondered about it once, when he and his brother played a two-man game bringing the ball up the field, but that's about it.
Ironically, I'd have to say that his value to the Falcons is probably greater when he plays outside defender, since he brings an attacking dimension that most players at that position can't match, but the change also implies that they've strengthened the back line even while moving him forward, which (if true) is unambiguous good news for the Falcons. My assessment of his place as an all-timer was based on that rare skill set, which this year apparently is not being as fully utilized.
As for the view that the Falcons are unlikely to return to the level they reached from 2000 to 2013, I would actually agree. Many here are much better informed than me about the national scene, and I put stock in their opinions. From my quite limited knowledge of such things, I would venture to say that at least two trends outside of Messiah are working to that end. (1) Messiah is no longer the automatic default option for top high school players in the Mid-Atlantic region who want to attend a Christian college. That was almost certainly true ten years ago, but no longer. Not b/c anything has really changed at Messiah (after all, McCarty's track record is about as good as Brandt's), but b/c at least two other colleges similar to Messiah have greatly improved their programs: Eastern (where head coach Mark Wagner and two new assistants are former Falcons) and Gordon (where the coach who turned it around grew up near Messiah and was able to recruit successfully in PA and nearby states for some of the same players who used to come almost automatically to Messiah). (2) At many other D3 colleges, the talent pool is larger b/c nationally soccer is on the rise. Since professional soccer is still not nearly as big as in Europe, and since D1 soccer is nothing like football or basketball for $$ (every single starter and bench player basically expects a full ride, whereas in soccer that is not true anywhere, since there are fewer than 11.0 scholarships to spread around), it's increasingly true that very talented high school players opt for D3, where they can use their athletic prowess to get into better schools than they might get into otherwise. In Messiah's case, that's not very important, since their overall selectivity in admissions doesn't compare with that of the Ivies or the NESCAC schools or the UAA schools (I put the Ivies here since they don't give $$ for athletics), but it may mean that a given player would rank Williams or Amherst over Messiah, and would choose Messiah only if he doesn't get into either of the other two schools. I don't think that most Messiah players are in that category (certainly there are not many from New England in any case), but a few might be. I know the one current freshman starter, Shay Quintin, who graduated from Milton Academy in MA, drew interest from some New England schools but chose Messiah anyway.
In short, it's a more competitive world that the Falcons now find themselves in. Perhaps that means that Falcon teams won't usually be as good as they were ten years ago, but almost certainly it means that some other teams might be that good (or even better) in a given year. I actually thought these trends would catch up with the Falcons a little sooner, but I didn't realize just how good the class of Ramirez, Payne, Jack T, and the others was until they were sophomores. Jack was the only one who started as a freshman. I don't think many Falcon fans thought they'd win in 2012, but most probably did expect another title from them in 2014. I doubt many expect one this year, but I wouldn't bet against the current sophomore class winning one before they're done.
As for recruiting soccer players at Messiah, to the best of my knowledge it's done differently than at many other schools. To a significant degree, players recruit Messiah rather than the other way around. That is, they let Messiah know of their interest in playing there, the sooner the better. Maybe they attend the summer soccer camps, or maybe they just send video clips, but the coaches mostly just let people come to them, and only at some point after that is a player pursued aggressively, in some cases.
Messiah likes to call itself "the best place to play soccer," and for what I can see as an outsider they mean it. Parents and alumni are very heavily involved in the program. High school players considering Messiah figure this out before they arrive on campus, and it is probably a major factor in their decision to play at Messiah. Very few players quit or transfer, and I know of only three cases since 2000 in which players were not invited back for various reasons, but perhaps there are more that I don't know about. One fact is indisputable: you won't find larger crowds to play for anywhere else in D3, nor even at almost any place in D1. Nondescript conference opponents even get an audience of several hundred. It's pretty amazing. And, the crowds tend to be knowledgeable; they know when a call or non-call is just terrible and appreciate opponents who come to play and don't park the bus.
Quote from: Falconer on September 11, 2016, 05:59:52 PM
As for recruiting soccer players at Messiah, to the best of my knowledge it's done differently than at many other schools. To a significant degree, players recruit Messiah rather than the other way around. That is, they let Messiah know of their interest in playing there, the sooner the better. Maybe they attend the summer soccer camps, or maybe they just send video clips, but the coaches mostly just let people come to them, and only at some point after that is a player pursued aggressively, in some cases.
Messiah likes to call itself "the best place to play soccer," and for what I can see as an outsider they mean it. Parents and alumni are very heavily involved in the program. High school players considering Messiah figure this out before they arrive on campus, and it is probably a major factor in their decision to play at Messiah. Very few players quit or transfer, and I know of only three cases since 2000 in which players were not invited back for various reasons, but perhaps there are more that I don't know about. One fact is indisputable: you won't find larger crowds to play for anywhere else in D3, nor even at almost any place in D1. Nondescript conference opponents even get an audience of several hundred. It's pretty amazing. And, the crowds tend to be knowledgeable; they know when a call or non-call is just terrible and appreciate opponents who come to play and don't park the bus.
You have quite a lot of knowledge of Messiah history falconer! I watched some games last year as a parent of a potential recruit and visited with my son. I had visited 2 years prior with daughter who decided to go to a nescac instead. My son did choose Messiah...it was his 2 day visit that clinched his decision. The culture of the team and players/coaches and genuine interest in each player becoming a man of character is quite a contrast to any other program. I think that is a recruiting draw as some visits completely ruled out other schools including d1.
They may not have the marquee high school player of the year they had with jack Thompson, kai, etc, but what makes a team great is everyone buying in and playing as a team and developing chemistry. I saw it happen on his high school team as they improved each year with a nucleus of players. They have as good a chance as many to go deep this year but need some things to go their way just like any team that becomes national champs. I'm looking forward to watching more games over the years and seeing what they can accomplish togetjer. Win or lose he is having a great experience already.
What is everyone's analysis of these scores from this weekend?
F&M - 2
Oswego - 0
Messiah - 3
Oswego - 0
F&M - 0
Olglethorpe - 0
Messiah - 5
Olgelethorpe - 1
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 05, 2016, 08:09:44 PM
In terms of NSCAA... Predictions
1. F&M. 6th
2. E-town 11th
3. Messiah 20th
4. Scranton RV
5. Haverford
6. Eastern
7. Catholic
8. Miseri
9. Gettysburg
10. JHU
Week 2
1. F&M (3-0-2)
2. E-town (4-0)
3. Messiah (3-0-1)
4. Scranton (4-0)
5. Eastern (3-0-1)
6. Haverford (2-1-1) could see them ahead of Eastern.
7. JHU (3-0-2) not really any strong wins
8. Gettysburg (2-1) close loss to Scranton and a win over York
9. Manhattanville (3-2) win over RPI, big game vs Drew next
10. Drew (3-0) with no strong opponents yettt
------------------------------------
Lycoming will crack the rankings once they go over .500
Miseri and Catholic both dropped games.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 11, 2016, 10:25:39 PM
What is everyone's analysis of these scores from this weekend?
F&M - 2
Oswego - 0
Messiah - 3
Oswego - 0
F&M - 0
Olglethorpe - 0
Messiah - 5
Olgelethorpe - 1
Didn't catch any of these games but only thought could be F&M a little tired from the game the night before? Olgelethorpe probably subbed early after going down by 2 or 3 and rested for F&M as where F&M was still in a closer battle and most likely didn't get as much rest for their starters. With that being said you would expect them to take care of business. Messiah starting to click though. Still don't think they are national title contenders but 2nd/3rd round NCAA is in sights at the moment.
D3SW did you watch any of these games? Any feedback for us that couldn't watch?
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 12, 2016, 07:21:21 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 05, 2016, 08:09:44 PM
In terms of NSCAA... Predictions
1. F&M. 6th
2. E-town 11th
3. Messiah 20th
4. Scranton RV
5. Haverford
6. Eastern
7. Catholic
8. Miseri
9. Gettysburg
10. JHU
Week 2
1. F&M (3-0-2)
2. E-town (4-0)
3. Messiah (3-0-1)
4. Scranton (4-0)
5. Eastern (3-0-1)
6. Haverford (2-1-1) could see them ahead of Eastern.
7. JHU (3-0-2) not really any strong wins
8. Gettysburg (2-1) close loss to Scranton and a win over York
9. Manhattanville (3-2) win over RPI, big game vs Drew next
10. Drew (3-0) with no strong opponents yettt
------------------------------------
Lycoming will crack the rankings once they go over .500
Miseri and Catholic both dropped games.
I would agree with most of this...still would switch Scranton and Etown though ;)
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 12, 2016, 07:21:21 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 05, 2016, 08:09:44 PM
In terms of NSCAA... Predictions
1. F&M. 6th
2. E-town 11th
3. Messiah 20th
4. Scranton RV
5. Haverford
6. Eastern
7. Catholic
8. Miseri
9. Gettysburg
10. JHU
Week 2
1. F&M (3-0-2)
2. E-town (4-0)
3. Messiah (3-0-1)
4. Scranton (4-0)
5. Eastern (3-0-1)
6. Haverford (2-1-1) could see them ahead of Eastern.
7. JHU (3-0-2) not really any strong wins
8. Gettysburg (2-1) close loss to Scranton and a win over York
9. Manhattanville (3-2) win over RPI, big game vs Drew next
10. Drew (3-0) with no strong opponents yettt
------------------------------------
Lycoming will crack the rankings once they go over .500
Miseri and Catholic both dropped games.
Gettysburg and Messiah play Wed at Gettysburg. That result will be interesting since Messiah is usually better at home and Gettysburg a solid team. Could be a tie or one goal game.
Quote from: Falconer on September 11, 2016, 05:42:40 PM
Rudy, I appreciate the correction about Jacob Bender now playing MF rather than outside back--where he was last season, even when he started coming pretty far forward later in the season. (In the Etown game, for example, he was inside the box during the run of play often enough that I remember noticing it.) I didn't realize that he's been moved to MF, b/c I have not yet seen a game in person. I've seen maybe 150 minutes of live streaming, and most of that time the Falcons possessed the ball in their opponents end. So, seeing Jacob in the middle of the attack wasn't unusual (he did that a lot last year as a defender), whereas it was uncommon to get full views of the defensive end via the camera. I wondered about it once, when he and his brother played a two-man game bringing the ball up the field, but that's about it.
Ironically, I'd have to say that his value to the Falcons is probably greater when he plays outside defender, since he brings an attacking dimension that most players at that position can't match, but the change also implies that they've strengthened the back line even while moving him forward, which (if true) is unambiguous good news for the Falcons. My assessment of his place as an all-timer was based on that rare skill set, which this year apparently is not being as fully utilized.
As for the view that the Falcons are unlikely to return to the level they reached from 2000 to 2013, I would actually agree. Many here are much better informed than me about the national scene, and I put stock in their opinions. From my quite limited knowledge of such things, I would venture to say that at least two trends outside of Messiah are working to that end. (1) Messiah is no longer the automatic default option for top high school players in the Mid-Atlantic region who want to attend a Christian college. That was almost certainly true ten years ago, but no longer. Not b/c anything has really changed at Messiah (after all, McCarty's track record is about as good as Brandt's), but b/c at least two other colleges similar to Messiah have greatly improved their programs: Eastern (where head coach Mark Wagner and two new assistants are former Falcons) and Gordon (where the former coach who turned it around grew up near Messiah and was able to recruit successfully in PA and nearby states for some of the same players who used to come almost automatically to Messiah). (2) At many other D3 colleges, the talent pool is larger b/c nationally soccer is on the rise. Since professional soccer is still not nearly as big as in Europe, and since D1 soccer is nothing like football or basketball for $$ (every single starter and bench player basically expects a full ride, whereas in soccer that is not true anywhere, since there are fewer than 11.0 scholarships to spread around), it's increasingly true that very talented high school players opt for D3, where they can use their athletic prowess to get into better schools than they might get into otherwise. In Messiah's case, that's not very important, since their overall selectivity in admissions doesn't compare with that of the Ivies or the NESCAC schools or the UAA schools (I put the Ivies here since they don't give $$ for athletics), but it may mean that a given player would rank Williams or Amherst over Messiah, and would choose Messiah only if he doesn't get into either of the other two schools. I don't think that most Messiah players are in that category (certainly there are not many from New England in any case), but a few might be. I know the one current freshman starter, Shay Quintin, who graduated from Milton Academy in MA, drew interest from some New England schools but chose Messiah anyway.
In short, it's a more competitive world that the Falcons now find themselves in. Perhaps that means that Falcon teams won't usually be as good as they were ten years ago, but almost certainly it means that some other teams might be that good (or even better) in a given year. I actually thought these trends would catch up with the Falcons a little sooner, but I didn't realize just how good the class of Ramirez, Payne, Jack T, and the others was until they were sophomores. Jack was the only one who started as a freshman. I don't think many Falcon fans thought they'd win in 2012, but most probably did expect another title from them in 2014. I doubt many expect one this year, but I wouldn't bet against the current sophomore class winning one before they're done.
Im sorry but I have a hard time believing that Messiah's downfall is because schools like Gordon and Eastern are starting to up their recruiting. Not one player om Gordon's roster would have played significant minutes on Messiah's best teams. Also, saying Messiah's problems are solved and everything is back to normal because of this past weekend is a bit much. Let's wait until they play some difficult games.
MAF Power Rankings
1. F&M 3-0-2 big win over Lycoming but stumbled vs Ogelthorpe
2. Scranton 4-0-0 4 shut-outs including a quality win over Gettysburg
3. Etown 4-0-0 1 goal allowed and no real big time wins yet but they look determined after last season's snub
4. Haverford 2-1-1 a tough loss @Brandeis and a tie vs Lycoming has the Fords in a decent spot heading into conference
5. Messiah 3-0-1 the Falcons looked poised to be a contender this season w/a strong start but the toughest tests remain
6. Eastern 3-0-1 a quality tie vs Lycoming but only Salisbury remains to pick up a possible ranked win
7. Gettysburg 2-1-0 tough 1 goal loss to Scranton but has rebounded nicely w/wins vs York & Kings
8. Lycoming 1-2-2 2 losses out of the gate vs Rowan & F&M but fought through the pressure w/2 road ties @Eastern/Haverford
9. Hopkins 3-0-2 no real tests yet but 3 straight shut-outs catches the eye
10. Manhattanville 3-2-0 a nice win over RPI and a tough loss to Oneonta St
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 12, 2016, 07:21:21 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 05, 2016, 08:09:44 PM
In terms of NSCAA... Predictions
1. F&M. 6th
2. E-town 11th
3. Messiah 20th
4. Scranton RV
5. Haverford
6. Eastern
7. Catholic
8. Miseri
9. Gettysburg
10. JHU
Week 2
1. F&M (3-0-2)
2. E-town (4-0)
3. Messiah (3-0-1)
4. Scranton (4-0)
5. Eastern (3-0-1)
6. Haverford (2-1-1) could see them ahead of Eastern.
7. JHU (3-0-2) not really any strong wins
8. Gettysburg (2-1) close loss to Scranton and a win over York
9. Manhattanville (3-2) win over RPI, big game vs Drew next
10. Drew (3-0) with no strong opponents yettt
------------------------------------
Lycoming will crack the rankings once they go over .500
Miseri and Catholic both dropped games.
Drew is 3-1 and has played a joke of a schedule.
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 12, 2016, 11:47:35 AM
Quote from: Falconer on September 11, 2016, 05:42:40 PM
Rudy, I appreciate the correction about Jacob Bender now playing MF rather than outside back--where he was last season, even when he started coming pretty far forward later in the season. (In the Etown game, for example, he was inside the box during the run of play often enough that I remember noticing it.) I didn't realize that he's been moved to MF, b/c I have not yet seen a game in person. I've seen maybe 150 minutes of live streaming, and most of that time the Falcons possessed the ball in their opponents end. So, seeing Jacob in the middle of the attack wasn't unusual (he did that a lot last year as a defender), whereas it was uncommon to get full views of the defensive end via the camera. I wondered about it once, when he and his brother played a two-man game bringing the ball up the field, but that's about it.
Ironically, I'd have to say that his value to the Falcons is probably greater when he plays outside defender, since he brings an attacking dimension that most players at that position can't match, but the change also implies that they've strengthened the back line even while moving him forward, which (if true) is unambiguous good news for the Falcons. My assessment of his place as an all-timer was based on that rare skill set, which this year apparently is not being as fully utilized.
As for the view that the Falcons are unlikely to return to the level they reached from 2000 to 2013, I would actually agree. Many here are much better informed than me about the national scene, and I put stock in their opinions. From my quite limited knowledge of such things, I would venture to say that at least two trends outside of Messiah are working to that end. (1) Messiah is no longer the automatic default option for top high school players in the Mid-Atlantic region who want to attend a Christian college. That was almost certainly true ten years ago, but no longer. Not b/c anything has really changed at Messiah (after all, McCarty's track record is about as good as Brandt's), but b/c at least two other colleges similar to Messiah have greatly improved their programs: Eastern (where head coach Mark Wagner and two new assistants are former Falcons) and Gordon (where the former coach who turned it around grew up near Messiah and was able to recruit successfully in PA and nearby states for some of the same players who used to come almost automatically to Messiah). (2) At many other D3 colleges, the talent pool is larger b/c nationally soccer is on the rise. Since professional soccer is still not nearly as big as in Europe, and since D1 soccer is nothing like football or basketball for $$ (every single starter and bench player basically expects a full ride, whereas in soccer that is not true anywhere, since there are fewer than 11.0 scholarships to spread around), it's increasingly true that very talented high school players opt for D3, where they can use their athletic prowess to get into better schools than they might get into otherwise. In Messiah's case, that's not very important, since their overall selectivity in admissions doesn't compare with that of the Ivies or the NESCAC schools or the UAA schools (I put the Ivies here since they don't give $$ for athletics), but it may mean that a given player would rank Williams or Amherst over Messiah, and would choose Messiah only if he doesn't get into either of the other two schools. I don't think that most Messiah players are in that category (certainly there are not many from New England in any case), but a few might be. I know the one current freshman starter, Shay Quintin, who graduated from Milton Academy in MA, drew interest from some New England schools but chose Messiah anyway.
In short, it's a more competitive world that the Falcons now find themselves in. Perhaps that means that Falcon teams won't usually be as good as they were ten years ago, but almost certainly it means that some other teams might be that good (or even better) in a given year. I actually thought these trends would catch up with the Falcons a little sooner, but I didn't realize just how good the class of Ramirez, Payne, Jack T, and the others was until they were sophomores. Jack was the only one who started as a freshman. I don't think many Falcon fans thought they'd win in 2012, but most probably did expect another title from them in 2014. I doubt many expect one this year, but I wouldn't bet against the current sophomore class winning one before they're done.
Im sorry but I have a hard time believing that Messiah's downfall is because schools like Gordon and Eastern are starting to up their recruiting. Not one player om Gordon's roster would have played significant minutes on Messiah's best teams. Also, saying Messiah's problems are solved and everything is back to normal because of this past weekend is a bit much. Let's wait until they play some difficult games.
Spot on Mr. Right! :)
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 12, 2016, 11:58:19 AM
MAF Power Rankings
1. F&M 3-0-2 big win over Lycoming but stumbled vs Ogelthorpe
2. Scranton 4-0-0 4 shut-outs including a quality win over Gettysburg
3. Etown 4-0-0 1 goal allowed and no real big time wins yet but they look determined after last season's snub
4. Haverford 2-1-1 a tough loss @Brandeis and a tie vs Lycoming has the Fords in a decent spot heading into conference
5. Messiah 3-0-1 the Falcons looked poised to be a contender this season w/a strong start but the toughest tests remain
6. Eastern 3-0-1 a quality tie vs Lycoming but only Salisbury remains to pick up a possible ranked win
7. Gettysburg 2-1-0 tough 1 goal loss to Scranton but has rebounded nicely w/wins vs York & Kings
8. Lycoming 1-2-2 2 losses out of the gate vs Rowan & F&M but fought through the pressure w/2 road ties @Eastern/Haverford
9. Hopkins 3-0-2 no real tests yet but 3 straight shut-outs catches the eye
10. Manhattanville 3-2-0 a nice win over RPI and a tough loss to Oneonta St
This all looks good MAF. I would consider switching Hopkins and Lycoming given the records, but based on SOS I can see why Lyco is ahead of them. We will see Hopkins true colors in conference. Also, as mentioned before, Scranton and Etown are toss ups. Maybe a T-2 for both? Just a thought ;)
Some key take aways from the start of this season...
How bad is Dickinson? Can they rebound in conference?
How good is Messiah? How will they do when they play some tough teams?
Will Etown be a bust come conference tournament time?
Can Scranton sustain momentum?
Eastern and Gettysburg flying under the radar...is this good or bad for both?
Can Lycoming get back on track after early season woes?
Can Manhattanville keep pace in the Freedom with Eastern?
Any other talking points I may have missed? Lots to discuss only a few weeks in!
... I'd put Arcadia at 10th, LVC at 11th, Hood at 12th, Drew at 13th
Massey has:
1 Messiah
2 Etown
3 Haverford
4 F&M
5 Scranton
6 Lycoming
7 Eastern
8 Gettysburg
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 12, 2016, 01:17:38 PM
... I'd put Arcadia at 10th, LVC at 11th, Hood at 12th, Drew at 13th
Massey has:
1 Messiah
2 Etown
3 Haverford
4 F&M
5 Scranton
6 Lycoming
7 Eastern
8 Gettysburg
Hero Sports has:
1. Haveford (4)
2. F&M (6)
3. Messiah (17)
4. Lycoming (21)
5. Etown (29)
6. Dickinson (37)
7. Gettysburg (66)
8. Hopkins (74)
9. Eastern (75)
10. Scranton (83)
() equal the national ranking
Keep in mind this poll also has Rowan slotted at #18 currently....
Clearly Dickinson shouldn't be there but the top 5 could shape up that way near the end...
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 12, 2016, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 12, 2016, 01:17:38 PM
... I'd put Arcadia at 10th, LVC at 11th, Hood at 12th, Drew at 13th
Massey has:
1 Messiah
2 Etown
3 Haverford
4 F&M
5 Scranton
6 Lycoming
7 Eastern
8 Gettysburg
Hero Sports has:
1. Haveford (4)
2. F&M (6)
3. Messiah (17)
4. Lycoming (21)
5. Etown (29)
6. Dickinson (37)
7. Gettysburg (66)
8. Hopkins (74)
9. Eastern (75)
10. Scranton (83)
() equal the national ranking
Keep in mind this poll also has Rowan slotted at #18 currently....
Clearly Dickinson shouldn't be there but the top 5 could shape up that way near the end...
I would throw this out with the trash. ;)
Some thoughts and notables heading into the week...
We won't know how good Etown really is until the end of the month when they face Messiah and Scranton back to back, but we will get a taste if they are real or fake after their match-up with F&M on 9/14 (Wednesday).
Scranton has some tough tests remaining and one of which is this weekend when they visit Lycoming. The remaining tests for the Royals are @Lycoming, vs Etown, vs Dickinson, vs Haverford.
Lots of hype that Messiah is back but are they? We will find out if the Falcons can restore their national prominence starting this week when they travel to Gettysburg on 9/14 (Wednesday). Remaining tests for the Falcons are vs York, Etown, @Wash.&Lee, and a conference showdown with Lycoming.
A team tested right out of the gates got off to a rough start, but Lycoming has battled back after two 1 goal losses to top 10 foes Rowan and @F&M. They survived the weekend at Eastern and Haverford with 1-1 and 2-2 ties. A bit of resilience was needed though after trailing the Fords 2-0 with 10 minutes to play. 2 late goals may have saved their season. With all that being said there are some opportunities left to boost the resume with games upcoming vs Scranton, Case Western Reserve, @Messiah and @Oneonta St. It doesn't get any easier for the Warriors.
A nice tie this weekend while being dominated by Lycoming has the Eagles feeling good about the upcoming schedule. Two remaining tests are Salisbury and rival Cabrini. If the Eagles get those two games they will be in great shape come conference play.
Arguably the best team in he region is off to a 3-0-2 start. F&M already has signature results with beating Lycoming and tying York, but Etown, Rowan, Stevens and conference all await the Diplomats.
Haverford has been a bit shaky to start with a tough 1 goal loss at Brandeis and squandering a 2 goal lead at home vs Lycoming with 10 minutes to play. The results will sting but they are in a good spot before heading to face Stevens this week (9/14). This game is bigger than most recognize and all eyes will be on the Fords come Wednesday night. With that said, Camden and Scranton still remain amidst the conference slate.
Gettysburg will have their moment to shine this week as they travel to Messiah...a must watch game in this region. Can the Bullets pull off the upset? Or are the Falcons ready to play spoiler to the doubters that still loom?
Other notable clashes this week include Hopkins vs York and Scranton vs Misericordia (Master vs Apprentice)
Should be a fun week around the region!
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 12, 2016, 05:06:58 PM
Some thoughts and notables heading into the week...
We won't know how good Etown really is until the end of the month when they face Messiah and Scranton back to back, but we will get a taste if they are real or fake after their match-up with F&M on 9/14 (Wednesday).
Scranton has some tough tests remaining and one of which is this weekend when they visit Lycoming. The remaining tests for the Royals are @Lycoming, vs Etown, vs Dickinson, vs Haverford.
Lots of hype that Messiah is back but are they? We will find out if the Falcons can restore their national prominence starting this week when they travel to Gettysburg on 9/14 (Wednesday). Remaining tests for the Falcons are vs York, Etown, @Wash.&Lee, and a conference showdown with Lycoming.
A team tested right out of the gates got off to a rough start, but Lycoming has battled back after two 1 goal losses to top 10 foes Rowan and @F&M. They survived the weekend at Eastern and Haverford with 1-1 and 2-2 ties. A bit of resilience was needed though after trailing the Fords 2-0 with 10 minutes to play. 2 late goals may have saved their season. With all that being said there are some opportunities left to boost the resume with games upcoming vs Scranton, Case Western Reserve, @Messiah and @Oneonta St. It doesn't get any easier for the Warriors.
A nice tie this weekend while being dominated by Lycoming has the Eagles feeling good about the upcoming schedule. Two remaining tests are Salisbury and rival Cabrini. If the Eagles get those two games they will be in great shape come conference play.
Arguably the best team in he region is off to a 3-0-2 start. F&M already has signature results with beating Lycoming and tying York, but Etown, Rowan, Stevens and conference all await the Diplomats.
Haverford has been a bit shaky to start with a tough 1 goal loss at Brandeis and squandering a 2 goal lead at home vs Lycoming with 10 minutes to play. The results will sting but they are in a good spot before heading to face Stevens this week (9/14). This game is bigger than most recognize and all eyes will be on the Fords come Wednesday night. With that said, Camden and Scranton still remain amidst the conference slate.
Gettysburg will have their moment to shine this week as they travel to Messiah...a must watch game in this region. Can the Bullets pull off the upset? Or are the Falcons ready to play spoiler to the doubters that still loom?
Other notable clashes this week include Hopkins vs York and Scranton vs Misericordia (Master vs Apprentice)
Should be a fun week around the region!
Nice summary. Gettysburg hosts Messiah though..not at Messiah. That should help Gettysburg a bit. I also think that F&M showed some flaws by tying a pretty weak Oglethorpe team. Not sure what happened in that game. You are right that this week's games will give us more data to see where all the teams stand in the region. End of September we will have an even clearer picture!
Thanks Rudy! And my mistake on the Messiah/Gettysburg match. Must have misread the schedule for that one :o
http://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2016/week2
Etown (8)
F&M (11)
Fords (19)
Scranton (21)
Messiah (23)
Lyco (RV-27)
Eastern (RV-8)
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 13, 2016, 09:00:38 AM
http://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2016/week2
Etown (8)
F&M (11)
Fords (19)
Scranton (21)
Messiah (23)
Lyco (RV-27)
Eastern (RV-8)
Scranton Lyco should be interesting on Saturday; Scranton got smoked last year.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on September 13, 2016, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 13, 2016, 09:00:38 AM
http://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2016/week2
Etown (8)
F&M (11)
Fords (19)
Scranton (21)
Messiah (23)
Lyco (RV-27)
Eastern (RV-8)
Scranton Lyco should be interesting on Saturday; Scranton got smoked last year.
Yeah I'm going to try to watch some of that game online. Thanks for the heads up on this matchup!
Obviously I understand that the Messiah hype train is going to be super high for a team that won so many National Championships in such a little amount of time. But... I'm the type of guy that needs the sniff test... if I can watch them play... and they are good... then I'm going to say they are good.
Now from the looks of the scoreboard everyday on D3 soccer the majority of the big schools have live video of their games. However, Messiah's schedule says that one of their games will have video... so onto my question... Is everyone that is ranking Messiah traveling out to Harrisburg and then south on route 15 to watch these games? or do they stream games live?
Quote from: LupoSPQR on September 13, 2016, 10:47:51 AM
Obviously I understand that the Messiah hype train is going to be super high for a team that won so many National Championships in such a little amount of time. But... I'm the type of guy that needs the sniff test... if I can watch them play... and they are good... then I'm going to say they are good.
Now from the looks of the scoreboard everyday on D3 soccer the majority of the big schools have live video of their games. However, Messiah's schedule says that one of their games will have video... so onto my question... Is everyone that is ranking Messiah traveling out to Harrisburg and then south on route 15 to watch these games? or do they stream games live?
All their games have been live streamed this year. Home games they stream and away games the opposing teams stream. I watched 3 online and they do seem to be clicking more each game. Watch Gettysburg game this Wed if you can
I've been impressed with #3 Alejos and #13 Bender on Messiah. I'm not a Messiah supporter, but I can say they are much better this year than 2015 (so far)...
NSCAA rankings "should" come out today... It was always around 1PM on Tuesday.
Messiah has a great live feed with good commentators. One of the best in the region if you ask me. I always enjoy watching a Messiah match online. From what I have seen they are better than last season but I am waiting to see what happens vs some stronger opponents starting this week.
what is wrong with Dickinson this year?
http://www.nscaa.com/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx
Did I read that right? Messiah got no votes at all?
Quote from: 2xfaux on September 13, 2016, 04:19:40 PM
Did I read that right? Messiah got no votes at all?
Still early in the season. I imagine if they beat Gettysburg at Gettysburg that would be considered a "quality" win. So far they have not played a top 25 team. Gettysburg not ranked either but they probably are considered the best team Messiah will have played so far. Roanoke looked to be the best team they played so far. Lynchburg just packed it in...something like 20 shots to 3. They need a couple quality wins to get attention I think. Etown game will be big in couple weeks. Need to get by Gettysburg on their home field first though which will not be do easy.
The NSCAA poll doesn't come to your results in a thoughtful, methodical or logical way that your post suggests. Next week the poll may be just as far off as this week with Messiah magically at #4 (and it won't have much to do with Gettysburg). As another example, they actually moved F&M up 5 spots from #12 to #7....AFTER two blemishes. I think they have Carnegie Mellon at #6, based on who knows what. It's nice for schools to post on their websites, which they all seem to do.
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 13, 2016, 08:04:07 PM
The NSCAA poll doesn't come to your results in a thoughtful, methodical or logical way that your post suggests. Next week the poll may be just as far off as this week with Messiah magically at #4 (and it won't have much to do with Gettysburg). As another example, they actually moved F&M up 5 spots from #12 to #7....AFTER two blemishes. I think they have Carnegie Mellon at #6, based on who knows what. It's nice for schools to post on their websites, which they all seem to do.
Have to agree with the F&M move. Makes no sense. It seems that they do not count ties as flaws...even to bad teams. Perhaps sometimes a team packs it in but the team F&M tied just lost the night before 5-1 to Messiah so they do not appear to be a team that packs it in. Certainly they should drop some spots.
We had this discussion last year, but the NSCAA top 25 poll usually directly reflects the regional rankings...so F&M being #1 in the Mid-Atlantic will be the top team in the poll from that region somewhere in the top 8 (because of the 8 regions). So slots 1-8 are typically the #1 teams from each region. Then slots 9-16 are usually #2 from each region and so on and so forth. So Messiah did not receive votes being 5th in the region as to where Haverford was 4th and only got 2 votes. Not saying Messiah couldn't have gotten votes even as #5, but that's why for this first poll.
Shooter's Predictions
Rowan@Hood---------------Rowan 6 Hood 1
F&M@Etown-----------------F&M 1 Etown 1
Fords@Stevens-------------Fords 3 Stevens 2 2OT
Messiah@Getty--------------Messiah 1 Getty 2 OT
St. Mary's@Catholic---------St. Mary's 0 Catholic 0
JHU@York-------------------JHU 1 York 0 OT
Susquehanna@Leb Val------Susquehanna 2 Leb Val 1
Arcadia@Ramapo------------Arcadia 2 Ramapo 1
Goucher@Dickinson---------Goucher 1 Dickinson 1
Lycoming@Juniata----------Lycoming 4 Juniata 0
Drew@Muhlenberg----------Drew 0 Muhles 1 2OT
Eastern@Swarthmore-------Eastern 0 Swat 2
Camden@Cabrini------------RUC 3 Cabrini 1
Stockton@Alvernia----------Stockton 1 Alvernia 1
Just for Fun: Battle of Ohio
Ohio Northern@Ohio Wesleyan-----ONU 3 OWU 4 2OT
Rowan 4, Hood 0
F&M 1, Etown 2
Fords 2, Stevens 0
Messiah 3, Gettysburg 0
St. Mary's 3, Catholic 2
York 2, JHU 1
LVC 2, Susqu 1
Arcadia 1, Ramapo 1
Goucher 0, Dickinson 3
Lycoming 7, Juniata 0
Drew 2, Mules 0
Eastern 1, Swat 0
Camden 2, Cabrini 1
Stockton 1, Alvernia 2
ONU 1, OWU 4
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 14, 2016, 07:42:25 AM
We had this discussion last year, but the NSCAA top 25 poll usually directly reflects the regional rankings...so F&M being #1 in the Mid-Atlantic will be the top team in the poll from that region somewhere in the top 8 (because of the 8 regions). So slots 1-8 are typically the #1 teams from each region. Then slots 9-16 are usually #2 from each region and so on and so forth. So Messiah did not receive votes being 5th in the region as to where Haverford was 4th and only got 2 votes. Not saying Messiah couldn't have gotten votes even as #5, but that's why for this first poll.
Where do you see regional rankings? If I select regional on the NCAA site it still has 2015 rankings
Quote from: rudy on September 14, 2016, 10:19:59 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 14, 2016, 07:42:25 AM
We had this discussion last year, but the NSCAA top 25 poll usually directly reflects the regional rankings...so F&M being #1 in the Mid-Atlantic will be the top team in the poll from that region somewhere in the top 8 (because of the 8 regions). So slots 1-8 are typically the #1 teams from each region. Then slots 9-16 are usually #2 from each region and so on and so forth. So Messiah did not receive votes being 5th in the region as to where Haverford was 4th and only got 2 votes. Not saying Messiah couldn't have gotten votes even as #5, but that's why for this first poll.
Where do you see regional rankings? If I select regional on the NCAA site it still has 2015 rankings
http://www.nscaa.com/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx
Click on Mid-Atlantic under "Week 1 Regional Polls"
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 13, 2016, 08:04:07 PM
The NSCAA poll doesn't come to your results in a thoughtful, methodical or logical way that your post suggests. Next week the poll may be just as far off as this week with Messiah magically at #4 (and it won't have much to do with Gettysburg). As another example, they actually moved F&M up 5 spots from #12 to #7....AFTER two blemishes. I think they have Carnegie Mellon at #6, based on who knows what. It's nice for schools to post on their websites, which they all seem to do.
In the case of the regional poll, the previous ranking refers to the final 2015 regular season rankings*, because there were no rankings last week and the preseason rankings are only national. Thus, the movement of teams in the regional ranking is based on the whole season to date, not just last week's results.
In the case of the national poll, the previous ranking refers to the preseason poll because there were no rankings last week. That is, the previous ranking isn't based on any results in 2016, rather largely on tournament finish in 2015. Ranking in the national poll, as we know, are tied into the regional polls and this week this regional rankings, as I just mentioned, are based on the whole season to date, not just last week's results.
So . . ., you can't really compare the current to the previous this week yet and you can't equate the movements you are observing to just last weeks results.
* you can see those rankings in this post from last season (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=8366.msg1701246#msg1701246) as the NSCAA site doesn't have an archive at the moment
Quote from: Flying Weasel on September 14, 2016, 01:42:52 PM
In the case of the national poll, the previous ranking refers to the preseason poll because there were no rankings last week. That is, the previous ranking isn't based on any results in 2016, rather largely on tournament finish in 2015. Ranking in the national poll, as we know, are tied into the regional polls and this week this regional rankings, as I just mentioned, are based on the whole season to date, not just last week's results.
So . . ., you can't really compare the current to the previous this week yet and you can't equate the movements you are observing to just last weeks results.
* you can see those rankings in this post from last season (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=8366.msg1701246#msg1701246) as the NSCAA site doesn't have an archive at the moment
You're providing the explanation, which may help some new folks understand how the NSCAA poll works, but in so doing I think you expose the lack of rationality. Regardless of how the preseason ranking is derived, blemishes shouldn't move you UP, unless they were against higher ranked teams, and the requirements vis-a-vis the regional rankings don't in my mind constitute a worthy excuse. Regardless, we will see moves that defy intuitive explanation throughout the season and not just at this odd beginning with what amount to rather arbitrary starting points.
Well, F&M did have 3 wins against those two ties since the pre-season rankings came out. So even if you choose to consider the pre-season ranking as the starting point or "previous" (I wouldn't do that as it's based off 2015 tournament finish), their movement up would be based on 3 wins despite the two ties. You are writing as if the two ties moved them up and the 3 wins didn't even factor in. But they did. Their record changed from 0-0-0 to 3-0-2. There was no intermediate ranking (when they would have been 2-0-0). (Now I agree that F&M is ranked too high given those ties and who they came against, but just want to point out that their wins, including in the first week, factored in.)
However, I personally do not consider the pre-season poll the starting point or "previous" and even the NSCAA doesn't really consider that the starting point even if they misleadingly filled out the "Prev." column when leaving it blank would have been more appropriate. There is no pre-season regional ranking, so there is no starting point (or previous) for this week's regional rankings. Thus, being that the national rankings are based off the regional rankings, there is no true starting point (or previous) for this week's national rankings. Let's use your example of F&M. There was no regional ranking before the season started when F&M was 0-0-0. They was no regional ranking after week 1 when they F&M was 2-0-0. This is the first regional rankings of the year. This week's ranking is the starting point. F&M's regional ranking is based on their record going from 0-0-0 to 3-0-2 overall record compared to the other Mid-Atlantic teams overall records going from 0-0-0 to X-X-X. F&M did not move up after going 1-0-2 last week. There was no starting point to move up from.
Now, I do agree that the NSCAA does some irrational things. That we can agree on.
(a) They publish a pre-season poll that basically just reflects the previous season's tournament finish and repeats their final ranking of the previous season. Not much sense in that as it completely ignores all factors that contribute to whether a team can be expected to do better, the same, or worse than the previous season. Skip doing a pre-season ranking or do it right and base it on graduation/retention, especially starters and key subs; experience/class distribution (e.g. senior and junior-heavy); program history beyond last year's tournament; trajectory of the program; coaching change or coach reaching his 4th year in charge with all his own players; recruiting class (maybe the toughest to factor in); etc.
(b) They typically put all the regional #1's in spots 1 thru 8 in the national ranking, regional #2's in spots 9 thru 16, and so forth. No ration behind that.
(c) They list the final regular season regional ranking as the "previous" ranking for the first new regional rankings of the season. Leave it blank; that is what would make sense.
FW, agree entirely with you last paragraph.
As for the rest, the fact that you nor I or hardly anyone else might consider the first poll the starting point is beside the point. It is the starting point. It's not much more absurd than making the defending champ #1 "until otherwise indicated." What if Amherst had lost 10 starters and Rowan had picked up 6 D1 All-American transfers? That "tradition" only works because we all expected Amherst to be very good again, just as we expected Tufts to be very good again last year. Look at the websites of teams that lost to teams ranked in the top 10 in the Preseason poll. They all cite a great effort against #7 ranked so and so or took #2 so and so to the wire. Then in what you consider the first real poll teams are considered to have "dropped out" and a team like W&L is noted have have cracked the top 25 from outside the poll. And if the 1st poll isn't for last year and isn't for this year, what is it exactly? Which of course goes to your point that they shouldn't have it unless done differently or more like preseason polls are done for D1 football and bball.
As for F&M, I'm obviously just using that example. I know they are a good team. That said, I am considering the 3 wins in addition to the draws. But I imagine that there are other just as highly valued teams that had all wins and no draws. Whether based on two weeks of work or one, two draws shouldn't elevate you 5 spots UNLESS the results of other teams warrant that and/or F&M's draws were would we would term phenomenal draws.
Messiah 2 Gettysburg 2
Messiah was up 1-0 with under 10 minutes to go then Gettysburg scored on a free kick (should not have been called IMHO) and then scored again a couple minutes later. Messiah did well to pull back even with 5 minutes to go but neither team could score in 2 OT. Gettysburg has some fast forwards and play the ball forward constantly..not much action through the midfield. It works for them. Messiah started slow but played better for second part of first half. They started second half getting a lot of shots (something they did not do in 1st half..they possessed in first half but did not take shots) but could not convert.
Overall even game with different styles. Messiah now has 2 injured starters (midfielder and outside defender who got hurt in 2nd half of this game) so not sure when they will be back.
Gettysburg will be a tough game for most teams due to their speed and quick transition game.
F&M 2 Etown 0
Good win for F&M to keep them top of the region
Quote from: rudy on September 14, 2016, 09:14:05 PM
F&M 2 Etown 0
Good win for F&M to keep them top of the region
I had trouble with the video. E'town looks like they have a great venue and nice field. A lot of good venues in PA.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 14, 2016, 09:08:21 AM
Shooter's Predictions
Rowan@Hood---------------Rowan 6 Hood 1
F&M@Etown-----------------F&M 1 Etown 1
Fords@Stevens-------------Fords 3 Stevens 2 2OT
Messiah@Getty--------------Messiah 1 Getty 2 OT
St. Mary's@Catholic---------St. Mary's 0 Catholic 0
JHU@York-------------------JHU 1 York 0 OT
Susquehanna@Leb Val------Susquehanna 2 Leb Val 1
Arcadia@Ramapo------------Arcadia 2 Ramapo 1
Goucher@Dickinson---------Goucher 1 Dickinson 1
Lycoming@Juniata----------Lycoming 4 Juniata 0
Drew@Muhlenberg----------Drew 0 Muhles 1 2OT
Eastern@Swarthmore-------Eastern 0 Swat 2
Camden@Cabrini------------RUC 3 Cabrini 1
Stockton@Alvernia----------Stockton 1 Alvernia 1
Just for Fun: Battle of Ohio
Ohio Northern@Ohio Wesleyan-----ONU 3 OWU 4 2OT
Quote from: rudy on September 14, 2016, 06:38:07 PM
Messiah 2 Gettysburg 2
Messiah was up 1-0 with under 10 minutes to go then Gettysburg scored on a free kick (should not have been called IMHO) and then scored again a couple minutes later. Messiah did well to pull back even with 5 minutes to go but neither team could score in 2 OT. Gettysburg has some fast forwards and play the ball forward constantly..not much action through the midfield. It works for them. Messiah started slow but played better for second part of first half. They started second half getting a lot of shots (something they did not do in 1st half..they possessed in first half but did not take shots) but could not convert.
Overall even game with different styles. Messiah now has 2 injured starters (midfielder and outside defender who got hurt in 2nd half of this game) so not sure when they will be back.
Gettysburg will be a tough game for most teams due to their speed and quick transition game.
Messiah is better than last season. I think everyone can at least agree on that? But they are no where near national title contenders as they have been over the last 15 seasons. Right now they are just another very, very good D3 team and although the Messiah faithful don't want to admit it...there are a lot of other very, very good D3 teams at the moment.
I would say there are 4 or 5 clear cut teams that are legitimate national title contenders and then a huge group after that of 20-30 teams who could make a run at it but aren't the clear favorites. But to say Messiah is one of those 4 or 5 at the moment is far from true.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 15, 2016, 11:20:55 AM
Quote from: rudy on September 14, 2016, 06:38:07 PM
Messiah 2 Gettysburg 2
Messiah was up 1-0 with under 10 minutes to go then Gettysburg scored on a free kick (should not have been called IMHO) and then scored again a couple minutes later. Messiah did well to pull back even with 5 minutes to go but neither team could score in 2 OT. Gettysburg has some fast forwards and play the ball forward constantly..not much action through the midfield. It works for them. Messiah started slow but played better for second part of first half. They started second half getting a lot of shots (something they did not do in 1st half..they possessed in first half but did not take shots) but could not convert.
Overall even game with different styles. Messiah now has 2 injured starters (midfielder and outside defender who got hurt in 2nd half of this game) so not sure when they will be back.
Gettysburg will be a tough game for most teams due to their speed and quick transition game.
Messiah is better than last season. I think everyone can at least agree on that? But they are no where near national title contenders as they have been over the last 15 seasons. Right now they are just another very, very good D3 team and although the Messiah faithful don't want to admit it...there are a lot of other very, very good D3 teams at the moment.
I would say there are 4 or 5 clear cut teams that are legitimate national title contenders and then a huge group after that of 20-30 teams who could make a run at it but aren't the clear favorites. But to say Messiah is one of those 4 or 5 at the moment is far from true.
Agree. But they are in in 20-30 teams group that have a shot. Who are the top 4-5 clear cut? I don't think Amherst, Kenyon, etc, who are ranked #1-5 right now are so superior to the 20-30 others that have a shot. It's not like they are as good as the Messiah teams of the past that won 2-3 consecutive national titles on multiple occasions. On any given day there are a lot of teams that can beat each other or at least get a tie and go to PK's. A lot of parity these days.
I don't think there are any clear cut favorites this year... all about the match-ups time come November.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 15, 2016, 11:20:55 AM
Messiah is better than last season. I think everyone can at least agree on that? But they are no where near national title contenders as they have been over the last 15 seasons. Right now they are just another very, very good D3 team and although the Messiah faithful don't want to admit it...there are a lot of other very, very good D3 teams at the moment.
I would say there are 4 or 5 clear cut teams that are legitimate national title contenders and then a huge group after that of 20-30 teams who could make a run at it but aren't the clear favorites. But to say Messiah is one of those 4 or 5 at the moment is far from true.
I don't know who and how many you are talking to conclude that the Messiah faithful don't want to admit they aren't legitimate national title contenders. I think many Falcon fans recognize the situation and know there's a lot of work to be done and progress to be made yet to get back to national title-contender status.
Here's my own 2 cents on Messiah. It seems that some posters are suggesting that Messiah just isn't that good and may not be a NCAA tourney-type team, or may be a tourney team but one headed for a fairly quick exit. The second view seems to be based on what Messiah WAS, and in some ways what the rest of the field WAS in many years by extension. IMHO it's fair to say that no team, Messiah or otherwise, is likely to have that kind of dynasty again. I can see a school winning two in a row but more than that seems very unlikely going forward. That said, I think it's entirely reasonable to believe that Messiah could, even this year, end up among 12-15 teams with decent to fairly equal chances to go deep. It's not like we're going to see Messiah mid-table in the Commonwealth Conf any time soon. I can very easily picture Messiah in the Elite 8 this year, and once there, any of those teams have a decent shot. I of course won't be shocked if the lose in the 2nd round either. Even in the dynasty phase one of their best teams ever lost early (in 2011 I think).
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 15, 2016, 02:10:27 PM
Here's my own 2 cents on Messiah. It seems that some posters are suggesting that Messiah just isn't that good and may not be a NCAA tourney-type team, or may be a tourney team but one headed for a fairly quick exit. The second view seems to be based on what Messiah WAS, and in some ways what the rest of the field WAS in many years by extension. IMHO it's fair to say that no team, Messiah or otherwise, is likely to have that kind of dynasty again. I can see a school winning two in a row but more than that seems very unlikely going forward. That said, I think it's entirely reasonable to believe that Messiah could, even this year, end up among 12-15 teams with decent to fairly equal chances to go deep. It's not like we're going to see Messiah mid-table in the Commonwealth Conf any time soon. I can very easily picture Messiah in the Elite 8 this year, and once there, any of those teams have a decent shot. I of course won't be shocked if the lose in the 2nd round either. Even in the dynasty phase one of their best teams ever lost early (in 2011 I think).
Beautifully said NCAC NE...this is what I was trying to get at. :)
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 14, 2016, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: rudy on September 14, 2016, 09:14:05 PM
F&M 2 Etown 0
Good win for F&M to keep them top of the region
I had trouble with the video. E'town looks like they have a great venue and nice field. A lot of good venues in PA.
Etown is indeed a great place to watch soccer. I don't know how large the crowd is for the generic game on their schedule, but when they host Messiah it's very large, even overflowing. Since (unlike at Messiah) the soccer field is not surrounded by a 400-meter track, the bleachers are much closer to the action, and seating is also available on a hillside behind one of the goals. You might say that Messiah's venue : Etown's venue :: Yankee Stadium : Fenway Park. (Though I offer that analogy, I should mention that for me it ultimately breaks down b/c I always root for the Red Sox.) The field is natural grass, but I don't think it's quite as big as Messiah's (I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong) and it probably doesn't drain quite as well either.
Etown fans are knowledgeable, befitting their great tradition. The only complaint I have is that some of the students can get a bit carried away in vocalizing their support for the Jays. It's not uncommon to hear things like, "F&$% Messiah," and other unpleasantries coming from certain sections during a game. Yes, the rivalry is a heated one, but I don't recall hearing similar things at any other venue, including York or Gettysburg, which are also reliably strong opponents that Messiah plays annually. It's unnecessary and not fitting to the quality of the venue or the skill of their team.
Quote from: Falconer on September 15, 2016, 04:04:10 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 14, 2016, 09:29:07 PM
Quote from: rudy on September 14, 2016, 09:14:05 PM
F&M 2 Etown 0
Good win for F&M to keep them top of the region
I had trouble with the video. E'town looks like they have a great venue and nice field. A lot of good venues in PA.
Etown is indeed a great place to watch soccer. I don't know how large the crowd is for the generic game on their schedule, but when they host Messiah it's very large, even overflowing. Since (unlike at Messiah) the soccer field is not surrounded by a 400-meter track, the bleachers are much closer to the action, and seating is also available on a hillside behind one of the goals. You might say that Messiah's venue : Etown's venue :: Yankee Stadium : Fenway Park. (Though I offer that analogy, I should mention that for me it ultimately breaks down b/c I always root for the Red Sox.) The field is natural grass, but I don't think it's quite as big as Messiah's (I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong) and it probably doesn't drain quite as well either.
Etown fans are knowledgeable, befitting their great tradition. The only complaint I have is that some of the students can get a bit carried away in vocalizing their support for the Jays. It's not uncommon to hear things like, "F&$% Messiah," and other unpleasantries coming from certain sections during a game. Yes, the rivalry is a heated one, but I don't recall hearing similar things at any other venue, including York or Gettysburg, which are also reliably strong opponents that Messiah plays annually. It's unnecessary and not fitting to the quality of the venue or the skill of their team.
Falconer. I can only comment from many many years ago. The field did not drain as well as Messiah's back then and the grass at Etown always seems to long. The field has been shortened from when I played. The goal closest to the entrance has come in a few yards. I didn't get a chance to stream the Etown game. Any thoughts from people who watched?
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 15, 2016, 02:10:27 PM
Here's my own 2 cents on Messiah. It seems that some posters are suggesting that Messiah just isn't that good and may not be a NCAA tourney-type team, or may be a tourney team but one headed for a fairly quick exit. The second view seems to be based on what Messiah WAS, and in some ways what the rest of the field WAS in many years by extension. IMHO it's fair to say that no team, Messiah or otherwise, is likely to have that kind of dynasty again. I can see a school winning two in a row but more than that seems very unlikely going forward. That said, I think it's entirely reasonable to believe that Messiah could, even this year, end up among 12-15 teams with decent to fairly equal chances to go deep. It's not like we're going to see Messiah mid-table in the Commonwealth Conf any time soon. I can very easily picture Messiah in the Elite 8 this year, and once there, any of those teams have a decent shot. I of course won't be shocked if the lose in the 2nd round either. Even in the dynasty phase one of their best teams ever lost early (in 2011 I think).
I agree with you fully...dynasties are difficult to achieve and maintain. Just about 21 months ago, many on this board were talking "dynasty" for Tufts after they won the National championship. Now Tufts is sitting three games into the season without a win. That's why the list of National Champions is so elite, and the list of those few schools who have won multiple National Championships is even more elite.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 15, 2016, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 15, 2016, 02:10:27 PM
Here's my own 2 cents on Messiah. It seems that some posters are suggesting that Messiah just isn't that good and may not be a NCAA tourney-type team, or may be a tourney team but one headed for a fairly quick exit. The second view seems to be based on what Messiah WAS, and in some ways what the rest of the field WAS in many years by extension. IMHO it's fair to say that no team, Messiah or otherwise, is likely to have that kind of dynasty again. I can see a school winning two in a row but more than that seems very unlikely going forward. That said, I think it's entirely reasonable to believe that Messiah could, even this year, end up among 12-15 teams with decent to fairly equal chances to go deep. It's not like we're going to see Messiah mid-table in the Commonwealth Conf any time soon. I can very easily picture Messiah in the Elite 8 this year, and once there, any of those teams have a decent shot. I of course won't be shocked if the lose in the 2nd round either. Even in the dynasty phase one of their best teams ever lost early (in 2011 I think).
i agree with you fully...dynasties are difficult to achieve and maintain. Just about 21 months ago, many on this board were talking "dynasty" for Tufts after they won the National championship, Now Tufts is sitting three games into the season without a win. That's why the list of National Champions is so elite, and the list of those few schools who have won multiple National Championships is even more elite.
And I'd bet my house that Amherst does not repeat this year. They have a chance but everything has to go right. Thats what makes what Messiah accomplished amazing. Look they lost in elite 8 to tufts that year but where the better team. I would say Messiah will return to final 4 at least once within next few years. But win multiple championships is not likely due to other teams having lots of talent as well.
rudy, I wouldn't bet your house, but I know what you mean. I actually think Amherst has a better chance this year than some prior years because they finally broke through. That said, a repeat is unlikely because of all the things that have to go right. Seems most of us agree that we are in a year that is very wide open.
Does your house include a one semester meal plan and all utilities covered? haha
I've said on this board before that Messiah also benefits from a weak conference, most starters only had to play 60-70 min throughout the season. I've always felt this gave them an even stronger case to make deeper runs in the tournament... a main reason why you can NEVER count them out.
I'd bet my house that Messiah win the MACC... (sorry MAF!)
The 2014 Messiah team that lost to Tufts was probably the best SR class they've ever had. The 2013 team probably had the best front 6 in the history of D3 (or at least the last 25 years), with strong talent on the back line as well. The Tufts team from 2014 was incredibly disciplined and excellent on the counter attack.
There are not 4 clear cut favorites, I can't even say with confidence what region(s) the FINAL FOUR teams will come from! At the moment I'm going with New England, Mid Atlantic, South Atlantic, Great Lakes...
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 16, 2016, 07:17:48 AM
Does your house include a one semester meal plan and all utilities covered? haha
I've said on this board before that Messiah also benefits from a weak conference, most starters only had to play 60-70 min throughout the season. I've always felt this gave them an even stronger case to make deeper runs in the tournament... a main reason why you can NEVER count them out.
I'd bet my house that Messiah win the MACC... (sorry MAF!)
The 2014 Messiah team that lost to Tufts was probably the best SR class they've ever had. The 2013 team probably had the best front 6 in the history of D3 (or at least the last 25 years), with strong talent on the back line as well. The Tufts team from 2014 was incredibly disciplined and excellent on the counter attack.
There are not 4 clear cut favorites, I can't even say with confidence what region(s) the FINAL FOUR teams will come from! At the moment I'm going with New England, Mid Atlantic, South Atlantic, Great Lakes...
You could also argue that Nescac teams benefit from a strong conference. They typically get 3 teams in the tournament even though the bottom of nescac us nothing special. So very good teams from other conferences often get left out if they don't win conf tournament while nescac team with 4-5 losses get a bid. I think 2 from nescac is fair but 3 seems excessive.
Quote from: rudy on September 16, 2016, 07:29:18 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 16, 2016, 07:17:48 AM
Does your house include a one semester meal plan and all utilities covered? haha
I've said on this board before that Messiah also benefits from a weak conference, most starters only had to play 60-70 min throughout the season. I've always felt this gave them an even stronger case to make deeper runs in the tournament... a main reason why you can NEVER count them out.
I'd bet my house that Messiah win the MACC... (sorry MAF!)
The 2014 Messiah team that lost to Tufts was probably the best SR class they've ever had. The 2013 team probably had the best front 6 in the history of D3 (or at least the last 25 years), with strong talent on the back line as well. The Tufts team from 2014 was incredibly disciplined and excellent on the counter attack.
There are not 4 clear cut favorites, I can't even say with confidence what region(s) the FINAL FOUR teams will come from! At the moment I'm going with New England, Mid Atlantic, South Atlantic, Great Lakes...
You could also argue that Nescac teams benefit from a strong conference. They typically get 3 teams in the tournament even though the bottom of nescac us nothing special. So very good teams from other conferences often get left out if they don't win conf tournament while nescac team with 4-5 losses get a bid. I think 2 from nescac is fair but 3 seems excessive.
NESCAC almost always deserves 3 bids and sometimes 4. Same with the UAA. A 2nd place team in a weak conference or regular season winner who loses in their tournament generally needs a sterling record and a good to very good strength of schedule outside the conference with good results. That's how Lycoming is trying to cover themselves this year, and we'll see if that works if they don't win the conference tournament. If this is your first year there are going to be a lot of things that don't make sense that you'll figure out over the next couple of years. After 5-6 years I'm still learning things that I didn't fully understand (like how the NSCAA rankings work for example and last year how important SoS is in terms of the other regional rankings (yes, the NCAA regional rankings count and the NSCAA regional rankings don't) and their importance in terms of who gets bids and who doesn't).
This is getting a little far afield from the thread title, but I wanted to comment on the comment that Messiah lost in the Elite 8 in 2014 even though they were the better team.
I both agree and disagree with that. Let me explain. When that game began I don't think there is any question that Messiah was the better team, and perhaps even during the game. But, first of all, Tufts was better than most of us knew as very few were focused on Tufts as a potential serious contender at the beginning of the tournament. They were viewed as a very talented team that struggled to put everything together. And this is my bigger point....those games are transformative. Tufts at the end of the Messiah game was a different team than at the first whistle. You feel differently about yourself, and you're at that phase a team that has just dethroned one of the great teams in history. Tufts then went forward and fairly comfortably handled OWU and Wheaton (Ill) back-to-back. They looked like the best team in the final four, and if they had played Messiah in the national final the game would have seemed like much more of a toss-up than when the two played in the Elite 8.
Of course I have an indulgent Kenyon analogy. Kenyon was not really on the map in 2013 (and no where close to the attention the Lords have garnered in years since then) UNTIL, without much fanfare, they beat the defending national finalist Ohio Northern and then a very good Wheaton (Ill) team on Wheaton's own field. Even then, those looked like some excellent program wins but no one gave Kenyon a shot playing Messiah at Messiah. That Messiah game, even more than the 2 wins against ONU and Wheaton, really catapulted the Kenyon program, and even though they lost. They tasted top level competition (against arguably the greatest D3 team ever) and were inside of 2 minutes of going to overtime. The Kenyon program has been different and viewed differently ever since that game...from not even really registering on the D3 map to now having a season that ends in the Sweet 16 or short of the Final Four in some ways being considered a disappointment or falling short of expectations. Now just imagine if the bounce of the ball that night had resulted in Kenyon actually winning. There is a difference between a truly longshot upset (e.g. Neumann, Rose-Hulman vs OWU in 2013) and one where a program announces its arrival and indeed transforms further in a positive way as a result of the experience. That night at Shoemaker was one of the highlights of all the years of youth, high school and college soccer that I followed as a parent. And I almost got to be the parent of a kid who got a goal and the game winning assist as around the 75th minute he put in a cross that left his teammate with a sitter from 6 yards out that was ripped over the bar (and that the kid would have finished 8 times out of 10). Messiah certainly might have tied it up after that, but both teams would have played the last 15 minutes differently. How the ball bounces impacts a lot of people (even if it shouldn't). My kid is happily (and stressfully) 6 weeks into med school and certainly isn't focused much on soccer (getting his updates from me), while I on the other hand am on D3soccer.com a full 3 years later searching for something that I don't even know what I'm searching for (but that has a heck of a lot to do with ultimate narcissistic fulfillment and glory).
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 16, 2016, 09:35:11 AM
Quote from: rudy on September 16, 2016, 07:29:18 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 16, 2016, 07:17:48 AM
Does your house include a one semester meal plan and all utilities covered? haha
I've said on this board before that Messiah also benefits from a weak conference, most starters only had to play 60-70 min throughout the season. I've always felt this gave them an even stronger case to make deeper runs in the tournament... a main reason why you can NEVER count them out.
I'd bet my house that Messiah win the MACC... (sorry MAF!)
The 2014 Messiah team that lost to Tufts was probably the best SR class they've ever had. The 2013 team probably had the best front 6 in the history of D3 (or at least the last 25 years), with strong talent on the back line as well. The Tufts team from 2014 was incredibly disciplined and excellent on the counter attack.
There are not 4 clear cut favorites, I can't even say with confidence what region(s) the FINAL FOUR teams will come from! At the moment I'm going with New England, Mid Atlantic, South Atlantic, Great Lakes...
You could also argue that Nescac teams benefit from a strong conference. They typically get 3 teams in the tournament even though the bottom of nescac us nothing special. So very good teams from other conferences often get left out if they don't win conf tournament while nescac team with 4-5 losses get a bid. I think 2 from nescac is fair but 3 seems excessive.
NESCAC almost always deserves 3 bids and sometimes 4. Same with the UAA. A 2nd place team in a weak conference or regular season winner who loses in their tournament generally needs a sterling record and a good to very good strength of schedule outside the conference with good results. That's how Lycoming is trying to cover themselves this year, and we'll see if that works if they don't win the conference tournament. If this is your first year there are going to be a lot of things that don't make sense that you'll figure out over the next couple of years. After 5-6 years I'm still learning things that I didn't fully understand (like how the NSCAA rankings work for example and last year how important SoS is in terms of the other regional rankings (yes, the NCAA regional rankings count and the NSCAA regional rankings don't) and their importance in termts of who gets bids and who doesn't).
Well definitely not 4! I have watched nescac games over the years. The idea that the conference is so strong from top to bottom is flawed. Top 4 in a given year are tough games but nobody can tell me that Bates , Colby, etc would be in top 2 in most conferences. I would like to see more games between nescac and teams like Kenyon, haverford, f&m, Lycoming, Messiah, etc. My son was recruited by most of the current top 10 including Kenyon, Brandeis, half of the nescac schools. Etc so I have watched a lot of them play.
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 16, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
This is getting a little far afield from the thread title, but I wanted to comment on the comment that Messiah lost in the Elite 8 in 2014 even though they were the better team.
I both agree and disagree with that. Let me explain. When that game began I don't think there is any question that Messiah was the better team, and perhaps even during the game. But, first of all, Tufts was better than most of us knew as very few were focused on Tufts as a potential serious contender at the beginning of the tournament. They were viewed as a very talented team that struggled to put everything together. And this is my bigger point....those games are transformative. Tufts at the end of the Messiah game was a different team than at the first whistle. You feel differently about yourself, and you're at that phase a team that has just dethroned one of the great teams in history. Tufts then went forward and fairly comfortably handled OWU and Wheaton (Ill) back-to-back. They looked like the best team in the final four, and if they had played Messiah in the national final the game would have seemed like much more of a toss-up than when the two played in the Elite 8.
Of course I have an indulgent Kenyon analogy. Kenyon was not really on the map in 2013 (and no where close to the attention the Lords have garnered in years since then) UNTIL, without much fanfare, they beat the defending national finalist Ohio Northern and then a very good Wheaton (Ill) team on Wheaton's own field. Even then, those looked like some excellent program wins but no one gave Kenyon a shot playing Messiah at Messiah. That Messiah game, even more than the 2 wins against ONU and Wheaton, really catapulted the Kenyon program, and even though they lost. They tasted top level competition (against arguably the greatest D3 team ever) and were inside of 2 minutes of going to overtime. The Kenyon program has been different and viewed differently ever since that game...from not even really registering on the D3 map to now having a season that ends in the Sweet 16 or short of the Final Four in some ways being considered a disappointment or falling short of expectations. Now just imagine if the bounce of the ball that night had resulted in Kenyon actually winning. There is a difference between a truly longshot upset (e.g. Neumann, Rose-Hulman vs OWU in 2013) and one where a program announces its arrival and indeed transforms further in a positive way as a result of the experience. That night at Shoemaker was one of the highlights of all the years of youth, high school and college soccer that I followed as a parent. And I almost got to be the parent of a kid who got a goal and the game winning assist as around the 75th minute he put in a cross that left his teammate with a sitter from 6 yards out that was ripped over the bar (and that the kid would have finished 8 times out of 10). Messiah certainly might have tied it up after that, but both teams would have played the last 15 minutes differently. How the ball bounces impacts a lot of people (even if it shouldn't). My kid is happily (and stressfully) 6 weeks into med school and certainly isn't focused much on soccer (getting his updates from me), while I on the other hand am on D3soccer.com a full 3 years later searching for something that I don't even know what I'm searching for (but that has a heck of a lot to do with ultimate narcissistic fulfillment and glory).
Kenyon got smart and recruits from the NEPSAC leagues now. In September tournament they can go scout top players in the league at one location. Tons of coaches at this tournament... invitation tournament.
Quote from: rudyMy son was recruited by most of the current top 10 including Kenyon, Brandeis, half of the nescac schools. Etc so I have watched a lot of them play.
Having watched Shay play in person (at the Roanoke game), I'm very glad he picked Messiah! He looks like he'll be an outstanding player for the Falcons.
Quote from: rudy on September 16, 2016, 12:37:57 PMI would like to see more games between nescac and teams like Kenyon, haverford, f&m, Lycoming, Messiah, etc.
The late start of the NESCAC season makes it difficult to schedule exciting prospective match-ups along the lines of what you suggest.
Does anyone know why the Etown-PSU Harrisburg game scheduled for tomorrow at 1:00pm was cancelled?
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 16, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
This is getting a little far afield from the thread title, but I wanted to comment on the comment that Messiah lost in the Elite 8 in 2014 even though they were the better team.
I both agree and disagree with that. Let me explain. When that game began I don't think there is any question that Messiah was the better team, and perhaps even during the game. But, first of all, Tufts was better than most of us knew as very few were focused on Tufts as a potential serious contender at the beginning of the tournament. They were viewed as a very talented team that struggled to put everything together. And this is my bigger point....those games are transformative. Tufts at the end of the Messiah game was a different team than at the first whistle. You feel differently about yourself, and you're at that phase a team that has just dethroned one of the great teams in history. Tufts then went forward and fairly comfortably handled OWU and Wheaton (Ill) back-to-back. They looked like the best team in the final four, and if they had played Messiah in the national final the game would have seemed like much more of a toss-up than when the two played in the Elite 8.
Of course I have an indulgent Kenyon analogy. Kenyon was not really on the map in 2013 (and no where close to the attention the Lords have garnered in years since then) UNTIL, without much fanfare, they beat the defending national finalist Ohio Northern and then a very good Wheaton (Ill) team on Wheaton's own field. Even then, those looked like some excellent program wins but no one gave Kenyon a shot playing Messiah at Messiah. That Messiah game, even more than the 2 wins against ONU and Wheaton, really catapulted the Kenyon program, and even though they lost. They tasted top level competition (against arguably the greatest D3 team ever) and were inside of 2 minutes of going to overtime. The Kenyon program has been different and viewed differently ever since that game...from not even really registering on the D3 map to now having a season that ends in the Sweet 16 or short of the Final Four in some ways being considered a disappointment or falling short of expectations. Now just imagine if the bounce of the ball that night had resulted in Kenyon actually winning. There is a difference between a truly longshot upset (e.g. Neumann, Rose-Hulman vs OWU in 2013) and one where a program announces its arrival and indeed transforms further in a positive way as a result of the experience. That night at Shoemaker was one of the highlights of all the years of youth, high school and college soccer that I followed as a parent. And I almost got to be the parent of a kid who got a goal and the game winning assist as around the 75th minute he put in a cross that left his teammate with a sitter from 6 yards out that was ripped over the bar (and that the kid would have finished 8 times out of 10). Messiah certainly might have tied it up after that, but both teams would have played the last 15 minutes differently. How the ball bounces impacts a lot of people (even if it shouldn't). My kid is happily (and stressfully) 6 weeks into med school and certainly isn't focused much on soccer (getting his updates from me), while I on the other hand am on D3soccer.com a full 3 years later searching for something that I don't even know what I'm searching for (but that has a heck of a lot to do with ultimate narcissistic fulfillment and glory).
Oh.. congrats on med school acceptance for your son...now that's an accomplishment...tougher than winning national championship 😉
Quote from: rudy on September 16, 2016, 08:35:21 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 16, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
This is getting a little far afield from the thread title, but I wanted to comment on the comment that Messiah lost in the Elite 8 in 2014 even though they were the better team.
I both agree and disagree with that. Let me explain. When that game began I don't think there is any question that Messiah was the better team, and perhaps even during the game. But, first of all, Tufts was better than most of us knew as very few were focused on Tufts as a potential serious contender at the beginning of the tournament. They were viewed as a very talented team that struggled to put everything together. And this is my bigger point....those games are transformative. Tufts at the end of the Messiah game was a different team than at the first whistle. You feel differently about yourself, and you're at that phase a team that has just dethroned one of the great teams in history. Tufts then went forward and fairly comfortably handled OWU and Wheaton (Ill) back-to-back. They looked like the best team in the final four, and if they had played Messiah in the national final the game would have seemed like much more of a toss-up than when the two played in the Elite 8.
Of course I have an indulgent Kenyon analogy. Kenyon was not really on the map in 2013 (and no where close to the attention the Lords have garnered in years since then) UNTIL, without much fanfare, they beat the defending national finalist Ohio Northern and then a very good Wheaton (Ill) team on Wheaton's own field. Even then, those looked like some excellent program wins but no one gave Kenyon a shot playing Messiah at Messiah. That Messiah game, even more than the 2 wins against ONU and Wheaton, really catapulted the Kenyon program, and even though they lost. They tasted top level competition (against arguably the greatest D3 team ever) and were inside of 2 minutes of going to overtime. The Kenyon program has been different and viewed differently ever since that game...from not even really registering on the D3 map to now having a season that ends in the Sweet 16 or short of the Final Four in some ways being considered a disappointment or falling short of expectations. Now just imagine if the bounce of the ball that night had resulted in Kenyon actually winning. There is a difference between a truly longshot upset (e.g. Neumann, Rose-Hulman vs OWU in 2013) and one where a program announces its arrival and indeed transforms further in a positive way as a result of the experience. That night at Shoemaker was one of the highlights of all the years of youth, high school and college soccer that I followed as a parent. And I almost got to be the parent of a kid who got a goal and the game winning assist as around the 75th minute he put in a cross that left his teammate with a sitter from 6 yards out that was ripped over the bar (and that the kid would have finished 8 times out of 10). Messiah certainly might have tied it up after that, but both teams would have played the last 15 minutes differently. How the ball bounces impacts a lot of people (even if it shouldn't). My kid is happily (and stressfully) 6 weeks into med school and certainly isn't focused much on soccer (getting his updates from me), while I on the other hand am on D3soccer.com a full 3 years later searching for something that I don't even know what I'm searching for (but that has a heck of a lot to do with ultimate narcissistic fulfillment and glory).
Oh.. congrats on med school acceptance for your son...now that's an accomplishment...tougher than winning national championship 😉
Full disclosure I have a daughter at Kenyon now..last year!
Game of the day for this region Scranton at Lycoming. Lycoming needs this game...they do not want another loss on their record. Home game too.
Predict Lycoming 2-1.
Scranton still underrated and Lycoming a bit overrated this season. Only benefit is that it's at home. I'm going Scranton 2-1. Lycoming defense is out of sorts this season and Scranton needs a big time win.
Quote from: NCAC New England on September 16, 2016, 10:05:26 AM
This is getting a little far afield from the thread title, but I wanted to comment on the comment that Messiah lost in the Elite 8 in 2014 even though they were the better team.
I both agree and disagree with that. Let me explain. When that game began I don't think there is any question that Messiah was the better team, and perhaps even during the game. But, first of all, Tufts was better than most of us knew as very few were focused on Tufts as a potential serious contender at the beginning of the tournament. They were viewed as a very talented team that struggled to put everything together. And this is my bigger point....those games are transformative. Tufts at the end of the Messiah game was a different team than at the first whistle. You feel differently about yourself, and you're at that phase a team that has just dethroned one of the great teams in history. Tufts then went forward and fairly comfortably handled OWU and Wheaton (Ill) back-to-back. They looked like the best team in the final four, and if they had played Messiah in the national final the game would have seemed like much more of a toss-up than when the two played in the Elite 8.
Of course I have an indulgent Kenyon analogy. Kenyon was not really on the map in 2013 (and no where close to the attention the Lords have garnered in years since then) UNTIL, without much fanfare, they beat the defending national finalist Ohio Northern and then a very good Wheaton (Ill) team on Wheaton's own field. Even then, those looked like some excellent program wins but no one gave Kenyon a shot playing Messiah at Messiah. That Messiah game, even more than the 2 wins against ONU and Wheaton, really catapulted the Kenyon program, and even though they lost. They tasted top level competition (against arguably the greatest D3 team ever) and were inside of 2 minutes of going to overtime. The Kenyon program has been different and viewed differently ever since that game...from not even really registering on the D3 map to now having a season that ends in the Sweet 16 or short of the Final Four in some ways being considered a disappointment or falling short of expectations. Now just imagine if the bounce of the ball that night had resulted in Kenyon actually winning. There is a difference between a truly longshot upset (e.g. Neumann, Rose-Hulman vs OWU in 2013) and one where a program announces its arrival and indeed transforms further in a positive way as a result of the experience. That night at Shoemaker was one of the highlights of all the years of youth, high school and college soccer that I followed as a parent. And I almost got to be the parent of a kid who got a goal and the game winning assist as around the 75th minute he put in a cross that left his teammate with a sitter from 6 yards out that was ripped over the bar (and that the kid would have finished 8 times out of 10). Messiah certainly might have tied it up after that, but both teams would have played the last 15 minutes differently. How the ball bounces impacts a lot of people (even if it shouldn't). My kid is happily (and stressfully) 6 weeks into med school and certainly isn't focused much on soccer (getting his updates from me), while I on the other hand am on D3soccer.com a full 3 years later searching for something that I don't even know what I'm searching for (but that has a heck of a lot to do with ultimate narcissistic fulfillment and glory).
I personally attended that game. When I heard Kenyon beat Wheaton at Wheaton's home field I knew that they had something special going. Yes you are correct, Messiah had a spectacular team that year and Kenyon gave them a great game. I specifically remember the 6-yard opportunity that was kicked over the goal. I couldn't believe the ball didn't go into that open net. But as time has shown, it's is difficult for any team to travel to Grantham, PA and sneak out a win on Messiah's home turf. I must say your son and his team played a great game. And you are correct, that run they made that year put the program on the map. HUGE congrats! Being part of the group of players that propels a team to a new level is something to be proud of. All the best to your son as he starts Med school - I'm sure he will be successful. You obviously did a great job as his Dad.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 17, 2016, 11:57:01 AM
Scranton still underrated and Lycoming a bit overrated this season. Only benefit is that it's at home. I'm going Scranton 2-1. Lycoming defense is out of sorts this season and Scranton needs a big time win.
I was close... Lycoming 3-1..
Lycoming had more riding on this game than Scranton..almost a must win for them..
D3SW, thanks. I will never forget the atmosphere that night (and the bitter, bitter cold that dominated many venues that weekend). I have to admit the mission of schools like Messiah is a bit foreign to me, but I respect it, and Messiah soccer is pure class all around. After the game the Messiah players reportedly were incredibly gracious (easier of course when you win). I was in awe watching how good Messiah was and Kenyon had to play out of their minds just to make it competitive. I wish Andrew Parmelee had been fully healthy. He struggled with a torn hamstring most of the season and just 2 weeks before had been declared done for the season, but he played gallantly. Similar to the next year with Sam Justice. As I wrote in detail last year, the Kenyon class that were juniors that year was special. A NCAA Postgrad scholar winner, a Fulbright kid, and 3 other kids currently in med school. Perhaps bigger D3s like Wash U or Hopkins have had 3 or more kids in the same class from the same team go to med school but I'm guessing that is pretty rare for D3s roughly the size of Kenyon.
Quote from: rudy on September 17, 2016, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 17, 2016, 11:57:01 AM
Scranton still underrated and Lycoming a bit overrated this season. Only benefit is that it's at home. I'm going Scranton 2-1. Lycoming defense is out of sorts this season and Scranton needs a big time win.
I was close... Lycoming 3-1..
Lycoming had more riding on this game than Scranton..almost a must win for them..
Good action packed game. Would have preferred another result though.
Quote from: Dave B on September 16, 2016, 03:19:24 PM
Quote from: rudyMy son was recruited by most of the current top 10 including Kenyon, Brandeis, half of the nescac schools. Etc so I have watched a lot of them play.
Having watched Shay play in person (at the Roanoke game), I'm very glad he picked Messiah! He looks like he'll be an outstanding player for the Falcons.
Thank you David B..I'm glad as well! I've yet to see him play in person at Messiah so you have one up on me.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on September 17, 2016, 08:56:11 PM
Quote from: rudy on September 17, 2016, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 17, 2016, 11:57:01 AM
Scranton still underrated and Lycoming a bit overrated this season. Only benefit is that it's at home. I'm going Scranton 2-1. Lycoming defense is out of sorts this season and Scranton needs a big time win.
I was close... Lycoming 3-1..
Lycoming had more riding on this game than Scranton..almost a must win for them..
Good action packed game. Would have preferred another result though.
Did you watch the game? What were your thoughts? I was unable to catch this one. Seemed like an even game from the box score?
MAF Mid-Atlantic Regional Rankings
1. F&M---------------5-0-2
2. Messiah-----------4-0-2
3. Fords--------------3-1-2
4. Lyco--------------3-2-2
5. Hopkins----------4-1-2
6. Etown------------4-1-0
7. Scranton---------5-1-0
8. Eastern----------4-1-1
9. Getty-------------3-1-1
10. Leb Val----------5-1-0
***I do not think the NSCAA will be anything close to this. These are just my power rankings at the moment***
I would go with this...
1. F&M
2. Messiah
3. Fords
4. Etown
5. Scranton
6. Eastern
7. Lyco
8. Getty
9. JHU
10. LVC
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 19, 2016, 09:12:17 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on September 17, 2016, 08:56:11 PM
Quote from: rudy on September 17, 2016, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 17, 2016, 11:57:01 AM
Scranton still underrated and Lycoming a bit overrated this season. Only benefit is that it's at home. I'm going Scranton 2-1. Lycoming defense is out of sorts this season and Scranton needs a big time win.
I was close... Lycoming 3-1..
Lycoming had more riding on this game than Scranton..almost a must win for them..
Good action packed game. Would have preferred another result though.
Did you watch the game? What were your thoughts? I was unable to catch this one. Seemed like an even game from the box score?
Yes even game; will respond more later but I believe Lyco's two goals were on the counter-attack...
That is really Lycoming's style! They are not a team that is going to work the ball up through short passing combo's. they have speed up top and look to go direct or score on set pieces. It might be all they can do on the tiny field they play on (65 yards wide).
Quote from: Go2Goal on September 19, 2016, 04:21:15 PM
That is really Lycoming's style! They are not a team that is going to work the ball up through short passing combo's. they have speed up top and look to go direct or score on set pieces. It might be all they can do on the tiny field they play on (65 yards wide).
Not entirely disagreeing here but to say it's all they can do because of a small field is a bit of a stretch for me. They have been very good at home as discussed previously this season and in last year's thread...but they also only had 1 loss on the road last year which came at the hands of Amherst. So my point being is that they can play on a large field and succeed on a regular basis as well. Field size isn't as big a factor as it's made up to be in my opinion.
8-2-4 on the road for 2015 and currently through 2016. The 2 losses came to Amherst last season and F&M this season. Ties came to Eastern and Haverford this season and Rochester and Arcadia last season. I would bet that not all of the team's fields they beat or tied are the same size as Lycomings but hey I could be wrong. They have been successful home and away so as mentioned before I do not think it's as big a deal as some are making it out to be.
I definitely agree with you on the fact that for the most part, home field advantage really is not as big as a deal as some usually believe. However I would argue when you look at a field like Lyco's which is 65 yards wide, there is definitely a HUGE advantage in being able to practice/play on that field day in and day out since most teams are not accustomed to fields that narrow. It also goes the same way for teams with massive fields, as they are able to spread the game to their liking (at least at first).
Lyco definitely has a huge advantage at home considering their direct, route-1 style of play, as teams who like to posses and spread the game out definitely struggle on their field. Not taking anything away from Lyco, as I think they performed relatively well in the games that I watched (F&M, Scranton, Haverford) but I would argue that they would have had a much better chance of winning vs F&M (who has a massive field) and Haverford if those games were played at home.
I don't disagree with any of that Gunners! :)
Probably one of the greatest field contrasts in the Mid Atlantic is Lycoming vs Messiah. Small narrow turf field versus large wide natural grass field. Lycoming beat Messiah twice last year on their home turf field. It's going to be interesting to see how this match up plays out on Messiah's home field this year.
I agree as well! When I said it MIGHT be all they can do...it's maybe more correct to say that may be the best option to build your team that way playing on the small field.
http://www.nscaa.com/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx
1. F&M (6)
2. Etown (16)
3. Fords (22)
4. Messiah (RV)
5. Scranton
6. Getty
7. Lyco
8. Eastern
9. Leb Val
10. Hopkins
Messiah survives 3-2 over York at home. Messiah was caught snoozing after going up 3-1 and let in a quick goal to get it back to 1. They will have to tighten that up. Colby Thomas was dangerous all night and contributed a goal and an assist (maybe 2 assists?). York did tie F&M earlier this season so they are no pushover.. but have struggled to get a win lately coming to Grantham with a 3 L streak..but only losing by 1 goal each game. They have some dangerous players for sure.
Ruiz is back in the lineup after being out injured. Two other freshman started this game...Brit (striker) and Cooper (center back). Atu (another freshman) starting to get meaningful minutes as well...I think he could be a difference maker once he gets a goal or two and his confidence goes up.
Any other regional games tonight? Probably most are tomorrow.
Quote from: rudy on September 20, 2016, 09:17:08 PM
Messiah survives 3-2 over York at home. Messiah was caught snoozing after going up 3-1 and let in a quick goal to get it back to 1. They will have to tighten that up. Colby Thomas was dangerous all night and contributed a goal and an assist (maybe 2 assists?). York did tie F&M earlier this season so they are no pushover.. but have struggled to get a win lately coming to Grantham with a 3 L streak..but only losing by 1 goal each game. They have some dangerous players for sure.
Ruiz is back in the lineup after being out injured. Two other freshman started this game...Brit (striker) and Cooper (center back). Atu (another freshman) starting to get meaningful minutes as well...I think he could be a difference maker once he gets a goal or two and his confidence goes up.
Any other regional games tonight? Probably most are tomorrow.
Misercordia had a good win over previously undefeated Rutgers-Camden...
Quote from: NEPAFAN on September 21, 2016, 08:38:33 AM
Quote from: rudy on September 20, 2016, 09:17:08 PM
Messiah survives 3-2 over York at home. Messiah was caught snoozing after going up 3-1 and let in a quick goal to get it back to 1. They will have to tighten that up. Colby Thomas was dangerous all night and contributed a goal and an assist (maybe 2 assists?). York did tie F&M earlier this season so they are no pushover.. but have struggled to get a win lately coming to Grantham with a 3 L streak..but only losing by 1 goal each game. They have some dangerous players for sure.
Ruiz is back in the lineup after being out injured. Two other freshman started this game...Brit (striker) and Cooper (center back). Atu (another freshman) starting to get meaningful minutes as well...I think he could be a difference maker once he gets a goal or two and his confidence goes up.
Any other regional games tonight? Probably most are tomorrow.
Misercordia had a good win over previously undefeated Rutgers-Camden...
Big games from last night...Misericordia beat RUC 1-0
Lycoming beat Frostburg 2-1
Eastern beat Salisbury 1-0
Messiah beat York 3-2
Big games tonight...Rowan@F&M
Alvernia@Etown
Fords@Stockton
Mary Washington@Dickinson
St. Mary's(Md)@Swat
I agree with the point that Lycoming has a significant home-field advantage against teams that have much larger, natural grass fields. This is especially relevant when they play Messiah. And, please--this is not any kind of excuse. It's a fact that certain venues favor certain styles of play and disfavor others. If a team is to be consistently successful, they have to find ways of handling that fact. As has been pointed out, Lycoming has done this very well recently, winning on the road on large fields often.
As for the Falcons in the Brandt and McCarty years, two factors have loomed large in affecting their efforts to play the kind of soccer that got them championships--precise, one-touch passing, leading to the development of multiple lines of attack while keeping the ball out of their own end. (Obviously that's a great formula, if you have the players to do it, but it's not the only way to win consistently.) IMO the most important factor is a tightly called game. When officials let a lot of things go, the uncalled fouls tend to slow down the Falcons, who rely on being able to find open passing lanes leading to open shots. Most teams do not have the combination of speed and ball skills to play the Falcons on even terms (that was not true last year and is somewhat less true this year), but many teams have size and strength that can be used to their advantage if minor fouls are not being called. A classic example of this factor was the first national championship, in 2000 vs Rowan. Rowan played very physically from the start, but Messiah took over after several fouls were called and a couple of cards were shown. They were forced to back off a bit, and the quicker Falcons took advantage of it.
The second factor is field size and type. The Falcons play their best soccer, in general, when they have a large grass field that can be used to showcase their game. Confine them a little or a lot, or make them play on a fast artificial surface (which can throw off their passing game), and they usually don't play as well. The fields at Etown, Lycoming, and Stevens (to name just three places) bring this factor into play. Because the Falcons put such a premium on playing "beautiful" soccer (which is probably one reason they draw such large crowds), the field factor probably has a larger effect on their game than it does on some other top teams who aren't usually as "pretty" to watch.
Obviously styles of play can be changed, but you tend to develop players who can do certain things well, within a particular system, and you have to live with the consequences. This is no less true in a sport like baseball, but that would be a very long digression that I will forego.
I finally saw a Messiah game in person last night, rather than streaming it. Here's what I noticed.
First, McCarty is still trying various combinations to see what he likes best with a new roster. This is business as usual for the first one-third to one-half of the season. Partly the combinations were dictated by the major injury to freshman outside defender Shay Quintin (which happened vs Gettysburg) and the slowing of a couple of other guys, but partly I suspect it was just normal horse trading to see what happens. Consequently another freshman defender, Cooper Robbins, started in the middle, a position he played quite often in high school, while freshman Brit Haseltine started at target--moving Nick West back to the wing where he played most of last year, and putting David Alejos on the bench for the first part of the game. This latter move surprised me. Alejos is probably the smallest player on the team, but he has about five different gears and he's usually very effective at breaking down outside defenders. West might be just as fast, but he isn't as shifty. It might be a way of getting more size into the overall lineup: Haseltine has plenty of bulk even though he's two steps slower than Alejos or West. Or, it might be something less obvious. We'll have to see what McCarty does next week vs Etown.
Echoing what Rudy said, Colby Thomas is a real presence. After the health and injury problems he's had so far, it's great to see him at full speed. He might be as fast as West and Alejos and no one has a better nose for the ball or a better knack of what to do with it when he has it. He assisted on both of West's goals with perfect passes into or across the box, and his own goal was a rocket. Colby is good at rockets. IMO he is every bit as good as the best players on the great team of a few years ago, when he was given playing time mostly when Danny Brandt missed a month. He doesn't have as many teammates at that level, but he's at that level and if he stays healthy his numbers are going to draw national attention.
Quote from: Falconer on September 21, 2016, 09:52:41 AM
I finally saw a Messiah game in person last night, rather than streaming it. Here's what I noticed.
First, McCarty is still trying various combinations to see what he likes best with a new roster. This is business as usual for the first one-third to one-half of the season. Partly the combinations were dictated by the major injury to freshman outside defender Shay Quintin (which happened vs Gettysburg) and the slowing of a couple of other guys, but partly I suspect it was just normal horse trading to see what happens. Consequently another freshman defender, Cooper Robbins, started in the middle, a position he played quite often in high school, while freshman Brit Haseltine started at target--moving Nick West back to the wing where he played most of last year, and putting David Alejos on the bench for the first part of the game. This latter move surprised me. Alejos is probably the smallest player on the team, but he has about five different gears and he's usually very effective at breaking down outside defenders. West might be just as fast, but he isn't as shifty. It might be a way of getting more size into the overall lineup: Haseltine has plenty of bulk even though he's two steps slower than Alejos or West. Or, it might be something less obvious. We'll have to see what McCarty does next week vs Etown.
Echoing what Rudy said, Colby Thomas is a real presence. After the health and injury problems he's had so far, it's great to see him at full speed. He might be as fast as West and Alejos and no one has a better nose for the ball or a better knack of what to do with it when he has it. He assisted on both of West's goals with perfect passes into or across the box, and his own goal was a rocket. Colby is good at rockets. IMO he is every bit as good as the best players on the great team of a few years ago, when he was given playing time mostly when Danny Brandt missed a month. He doesn't have as many teammates at that level, but he's at that level and if he stays healthy his numbers are going to draw national attention.
One thing I would like to see from Colby is a counter move. From all games I have watched he always goes wide using quick acceleration. Once defenders figure that out they will overplay him on that side. I have not seem him go inside or strike with his left foot. If he adds that dimension then he will really be a force
Quote from: rudy on September 21, 2016, 10:33:02 AM
Quote from: Falconer on September 21, 2016, 09:52:41 AM
I finally saw a Messiah game in person last night, rather than streaming it. Here's what I noticed.
First, McCarty is still trying various combinations to see what he likes best with a new roster. This is business as usual for the first one-third to one-half of the season. Partly the combinations were dictated by the major injury to freshman outside defender Shay Quintin (which happened vs Gettysburg) and the slowing of a couple of other guys, but partly I suspect it was just normal horse trading to see what happens. Consequently another freshman defender, Cooper Robbins, started in the middle, a position he played quite often in high school, while freshman Brit Haseltine started at target--moving Nick West back to the wing where he played most of last year, and putting David Alejos on the bench for the first part of the game. This latter move surprised me. Alejos is probably the smallest player on the team, but he has about five different gears and he's usually very effective at breaking down outside defenders. West might be just as fast, but he isn't as shifty. It might be a way of getting more size into the overall lineup: Haseltine has plenty of bulk even though he's two steps slower than Alejos or West. Or, it might be something less obvious. We'll have to see what McCarty does next week vs Etown.
Echoing what Rudy said, Colby Thomas is a real presence. After the health and injury problems he's had so far, it's great to see him at full speed. He might be as fast as West and Alejos and no one has a better nose for the ball or a better knack of what to do with it when he has it. He assisted on both of West's goals with perfect passes into or across the box, and his own goal was a rocket. Colby is good at rockets. IMO he is every bit as good as the best players on the great team of a few years ago, when he was given playing time mostly when Danny Brandt missed a month. He doesn't have as many teammates at that level, but he's at that level and if he stays healthy his numbers are going to draw national attention.
One thing I would like to see from Colby is a counter move. From all games I have watched he always goes wide using quick acceleration. Once defenders figure that out they will overplay him on that side. I have not seem him go inside or strike with his left foot. If he adds that dimension then he will really be a force
I should say he may have that move but hasn't had to use it because his patented move has been working out quite well! I just have not seen it. A left foot shot would help with the angle ...si he could shoot or pass with right foot.
F&M vs Rowan tonight might be the game of the year so far? I can't even predict the result. It definitely favors F&M to have it at home but WOW what a game this will be!
The other game to watch is Alvernia at Etown. Alvernia is desperate for a win and this might be the time they crack through. They will be playing an over confident Etown team so I am going with 2-1 in favor of Alvernia, despite the fact they have only scored 2 goals all season, have been shut out in their last 5 games and are 0-7 on the year. It's a bold pick but lets see if it pays off. This is a trap game for Etown as well, seeing that they are already looking ahead to their conference opener with Drew and the rivalry match with Messiah after that.
Other predictions...
Fords over Stockton 5-2
MW and Dickinson tie 2-2
Swat knocks of St. Marys 2-1
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 21, 2016, 10:44:17 AM
F&M vs Rowan tonight might be the game of the year so far? I can't even predict the result. It definitely favors F&M to have it at home but WOW what a game this will be!
The other game to watch is Alvernia at Etown. Alvernia is desperate for a win and this might be the time they crack through. They will be playing an over confident Etown team so I am going with 2-1 in favor of Alvernia, despite the fact they have only scored 2 goals all season, have been shut out in their last 5 games and are 0-7 on the year. It's a bold pick but lets see if it pays off. This is a trap game for Etown as well, seeing that they are already looking ahead to their conference opener with Drew and the rivalry match with Messiah after that.
Other predictions...
Fords over Stockton 5-2
MW and Dickinson tie 2-2
Swat knocks of St. Marys 2-1
I'm going with Rowan. Home field may save f&m but ..I think Rowan will overcome that. Does F&m play on grass or artificial?
Rowan takes down F&M on the road 2-1 after trailing early. Both teams missed critical PKs in the final 10 minutes of play. Heck of a game but edge to Rowan throughout. They are a dangerous team.
Etown handled Alvernia with ease in a 2-0 route. Alvernia is almost to self-destruct mode if they haven't already hit it.
Fords survive another overtime thriller narrowly escaping Stockton with a 1-0 win in double overtime with 1 minute remaining. Heart breaker for Stockton who needed a signature result.
Dickinson thumps Mary Washington 3-1 and is starting to get back on track, but is it a little too late for the Red Devils?
Swat survives St. Marys 3-2.
Guess I was way off on the predictions! :o
I watched the Rowan/F&M game and it was a good one. It had an NCAA tournament vibe to it and it was great to see two heavy weights battling back and forth. I would give Rowan the slight edge but both teams are very talented.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 22, 2016, 09:29:47 AM
Guess I was way off on the predictions! :o
I watched the Rowan/F&M game and it was a good one. It had an NCAA tournament vibe to it and it was great to see two heavy weights battling back and forth. I would give Rowan the slight edge but both teams are very talented.
One really big injury for F&M...leading scorer went out with shoulder injury. If he misses more games we may see some more unexpected results from F&M. I thought f&m had better play in 2nd half and came very close several times with an equalizer. Rowan outplayed them in first half which was sloppy I thought.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 22, 2016, 08:02:29 AM
Rowan takes down F&M on the road 2-1 after trailing early. Both teams missed critical PKs in the final 10 minutes of play. Heck of a game but edge to Rowan throughout. They are a dangerous team.
Etown handled Alvernia with ease in a 2-0 route. Alvernia is almost to self-destruct mode if they haven't already hit it.
Fords survive another overtime thriller narrowly escaping Stockton with a 1-0 win in double overtime with 1 minute remaining. Heart breaker for Stockton who needed a signature result.
Dickinson thumps Mary Washington 3-1 and is starting to get back on track, but is it a little too late for the Red Devils?
Swat survives St. Marys 3-2.
Fords have been without Corkery almost all season.
Quote from: oldford on September 22, 2016, 11:50:43 AM
Fords have been without Corkery almost all season.
Is he out for the year? I noticed he hadn't played this season.
Heard he got hurt in the Brandeis game--
Anyone know the injury?
Messiah ties Misericordia, ETown ties Drew, and F&M ties Washington (a sub .500 team at home??).
The day of the ties.
Poll predictions this week?
Mid-Atlantic Predictions
1. F&M
2. Fords
3. Messiah
4. Scranton
5. Etown
6. Lycoming
7. Gettysburg
8. Eastern
9. Leb Val
10. JHU
MAF Power Rankings
1. F&M
2. Fords
3. Messiah
4. Lyco
5. Scranton
6. Etown
7. Gettysburg
8. Eastern
9. Leb Val
10. Swarthmore
MAF,
Are you basically saying that Etown will drop out of the top 25 all together, and Messiah will move into the Top 25 and Scranton will move into the RV group? And that in the mid-week match-up between Messiah and Etown this week, Messiah will go in as the favorite?
Shooter's Regional Picks
1. Messiah--------Only undefeated team left lands them in this spot.
2. Fords-----------Surviving w/o their best player vs good competition.
3. F&M------------1 more blemish than the Fords and 1-1-1 in last 3 drops them a few slots.
4. Etown----------1-1-1 in last 3 drops the Bluejays. Doesn't get any easier w/Messiah & Scranton on the road up next.
5. Lycoming-------Starting to turn the corner? Haven't lost in their last 7 & people are starting to take notice.
6. Scranton-------1 blemish and a big upcoming clash w/Etown awaits.
7. Gettysburg-----Haven't take advanatge of the teams ranked ahead of them & those are the 2 blemishes for the Bullets.
8. Leb Val---------A nice start but the beef of the schedule still awaits w/Messiah, York, & Lyco.
9. Eastern---------The Eagles should win their next 10 but all that matters is the AQ for them.
10. Misericordia---4 blemishes but wins over Camden & York & a tie vs Messiah has me thinking they might belong.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 25, 2016, 09:09:00 PM
MAF,
Are you basically saying that Etown will drop out of the top 25 all together, and Messiah will move into the Top 25 and Scranton will move into the RV group? And that in the mid-week match-up between Messiah and Etown this week, Messiah will go in as the favorite?
Below is last weeks rankings. Messiah was already in the top 25 and that won't change. I do think, in my personal opinion, that after tying Drew at home Etown will drop out. Maybe they will stay, but with all the other teams that had a great week and weekend of games, I can't see them staying in the top 25, at least for my liking. Scranton already dropped out last week and into the RV category and I think they will remain in the RV category for this next poll. If anything Scranton SHOULD be ranked ahead of Etown due to SOS, record, blemishes, etc. So if Scranton is in RV then Etown should be as well. Messiah should go in as the favorites seeing that the game is at home and they are undefeated compared to Etown who is travelling and has had a rough 3 game stretch of 1-1-1. I think it should be pretty evident that Messiah is the favorite. Now it's a rivalry and that means nothing come game time, but for now I give the edge to the Falcons.
September 20, 2016
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 3
Through games of Sunday, September 18, 2016
# School (1st Pl. Votes) Record Pts. Prev.
1 Rowan (9) 7-0-0 966 3
2 Kenyon (9) 6-0-0 960 2
3 Amherst (3) 3-0-1 883 1
4 Trinity (Texas) 6-0-0 876 4
5 Chicago 7-0-0 869 5
6 St. Lawrence 6-0-0 811 6
7 Ohio Northern 7-0-1 699 9
8 Franklin & Marshall 5-0-2 690 11
9 Washington & Lee 5-1-0 637 14
10 Ohio Wesleyan 5-1-1 547 13
11 Calvin 5-1-0 541 15
12 Chris. Newport 6-1-0 533 7
13 Carnegie Mellon 5-0-0 499 16
14 Brandeis 3-1-1 445 10
15 Elizabethtown 4-1-0 433 816 Mass-Boston 6-0-0 429 17
17 Centre 5-0-0 355 22
18 Macalester 6-0-1 293 20
19 Redlands 6-1-0 257 18
20 Middlebury 2-0-1 241 —
21 Haverford 3-1-2 227 19
22 Messiah 4-0-2 219 2323 Dubuque 6-0-0 195 24
24 Plattsburgh St. 7-0-0 166 —
25 Loras 3-2-0 103 12
Dropped out:
No. 21 Scranton, No. 25 Cortland State
Receiving Votes:
Scranton 61, Bowdoin 61, Rochester 51, Washington U. 42, St. Mary's (Md.) 42, Carthage 38, Oneonta State 36, Chapman 32, Montclair State 27, Lycoming 27, Connecticut College 27, Cortland State 23, Ramapo 23, Williams 17, MIT 15, Rutgers-Camden 15, St. Thomas 11, Kean 10, Thomas More 4, Colorado College 4, New Jersey City 4, Lynchburg 2, Clark 2
I was referencing the NSCAA rankings, but I was not clear about that in my post.
Thanks for the analysis. Very insightful.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 26, 2016, 11:49:03 AM
I was referencing the NSCAA rankings, but I was not clear about that in my post.
Thanks for the analysis. Very insightful.
Ahhhh that makes much more sense now! I am not sure what to expect from NSCAA. It's always a toss up but after thinking about it more I think you will see Messiah at #1. We will find out tomorrow :D
PREDICTIONS on Elizabethtown @ Messiah -- Marshmallow Bowl this Wednesday night?
2-1 Messiah.
Scranton lost a vote in the new poll...
Predictions for Wednesday's Games:
Washington College 2 - Ford 1: This is my upset special. WAC riding the high of their draw with F&M while Haverford has been underperforming and barely getting by. I think WAC take this one with a little more fight and toughness than the Fords are ready for.
Gettysburg 3 - Johns Hopkins 1: I think Gettysburg has firmly planted itself as the 3rd best team in the Centennial. Henry Smith is a dynamic, difference maker.
F&M 4 - Ursinus 0: F&M takes its frustrations from a tough week out on Ursinus.
Messiah 3 - Etown 2 in OT: From what I've read I don't know that Etown are the real deal and Messiah seem to be back to their winning ways. I think this will be an entertaining contest and one that'll be tight all the way through. Messiah with just a little bit more quality and edge this one.
http://www.nscaa.com/web/Rankings/College_Rankings/NCAA_DIII_MEN/web/rankings/ncaa/diii_men.aspx
No surprises here
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 27, 2016, 12:53:25 AM
PREDICTIONS on Elizabethtown @ Messiah -- Marshmallow Bowl this Wednesday night?
Messiah 2
Etown 1Messiah edges Etown in an instant classic. Marshmallows will fly high into the night sky as the Falcons will get revenge and win this game in OT.
Kind of surprised to not see Eastern or Gettysburg in the RV section.
September 27, 2016
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 4
Through games of Sunday, September 25, 2016
# School (1st Pl. Votes) Record Pts. Prev.
1 Rowan (17) 9-0-0 998 1
2 Kenyon (1) 8-0-0 944 2
3 Amherst 5-0-1 883 3
4 Chicago 9-0-0 882 5
5 Trinity (Texas) 9-0-0 864 4
6 Ohio Northern 9-0-1 778 7
7 Washington & Lee 6-1-0 744 9
8 Calvin 7-1-0 677 11
9 St. Lawrence 7-1-0 667 6
10 Mass-Boston 8-0-0 564 16
11 Macalester 8-0-1 520 18
12 Middlebury 4-0-1 509 20
13 Ohio Wesleyan 5-1-2 488 10
14 Franklin & Marshall 5-1-3 448 8
15 Haverford 5-1-2 378 21
16 Chris. Newport 7-2-0 344 12
17 Washington U. 5-0-0 299 —
18 Carnegie Mellon 7-1-0 295 13
19 Elizabethtown 5-1-1 280 15
20 Messiah 5-0-3 276 22
21 Oneonta State 7-2-0 273 —
22 Plattsburgh State 8-1-0 180 24
23 Brandeis 3-2-1 165 14
24 Loras 4-2-0 136 25
25 Lynchburg 6-0-2 111 —
Dropped out: No. 17 Centre, No. 19 Redlands, No. 23 Dubuque
Receiving Votes: Montclair State 98, Grove City 98, Rochester 76, Scranton 60, Lycoming 51, Oberlin 51, Williams 42, Dubuque 38, Colorado College 36, St. Thomas 36, Redlands 33, Centre 33, Ramapo 29, Lebanon Valley 24, Carthage 18, Capital 18, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 16, Gordon 13, Clark 13, St. Mary's (Md.) 7, Union 7, Springfield 4, Chapman 2
The D3soccer.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of coaches, Sports Information Directors and D3soccer.com staff, and is published weekly.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on September 27, 2016, 12:53:25 AM
PREDICTIONS on Elizabethtown @ Messiah -- Marshmallow Bowl this Wednesday night?
I'm going with:
Etown 2
Messiah 1
I'm guessing this is a Pick Em in the betting world at -110.
I'll put 110 marshmallows on it.
Tonight's Notables
F&M@Ursinus
Wash. Coll.@Fords
Etown@Messiah
Neuman@Eastern
Scranton@Wilkes
Salisbury@Catholic
Leb Val@York
Swat@Muhles
Getty@JHU
Lyco@Misericordia
Widener@Stevens
MAF Predictions
F&M 2 Ursinus 1 This game will not be as close as the score indicates
Wash 1 Fords 1 Fords keep surviving and home field will help
Etown 1 Messiah 2 Falcons all day in this one. Bring on the marshmallows
Neuman 2 Eastern 2 Surprise of the night as Eastern squanders a win late at home
Scranton 4 Wilkes 1 Scranton puts up 4 in the first half and coasts
Salisbury 3 Catholic 2 Catholic needs a boost but it won't happen here
LVC 2 York 2 If this was a home game for LVC I would have picked them to win it
Swat 3 Muhles 1 Swat is quietly dangerous this year...look out Muhles
Getty 1 JHU 2 Getty coughs up 2 late and JHU wins in dramatic fashion
Lyco 1 Miseri 0 Lyco stays on their winning ways as Miseri loses a heartbreaker in 2OT
Widener 0 Stevens 7 Not the result Widener was hoping for
Lyco vs Miseri... The team that scores first, wins. I'm backing the Warriors in this one.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 28, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
Lyco vs Miseri... The team that scores first, wins. I'm backing the Warriors in this one.
You could be right, and Lycoming has to be the favorite, but the Cougars came back from a deficit against Messiah and they are dangerous on set plays. If they play well enough to get several of those, they might even win this one. Both teams play on turf so that's not a factor.
I don't like to predict scores, especially not for big rivalry games like Etown (19) at Messiah (20) where literally anything can happen. They go in as evenly matched on paper as it has ever been. Both teams are very young, with most of the best players either Fr or Soph. Last year, when both teams had a few senior starters, Etown dominated the first half, got a great goal from Gilbert Waso (who was dangerous all game long), and Messiah dominated the second half without getting a goal. 1-0. IMO Etown earned a spot in the tournament, but they were denied. This game looms large in tournament hopes for both sides, and I expect a barn burner.
What to watch for? How will Messiah defend MF Gilbert Waso? He's a stud even at 5-5. Probably the best player I saw in person last fall, when he was just a freshman, and he was indeed voted an AA. Messiah had no answer for him. If that is true again tonight, Etown probably wins. However, Etown lost an AA defender (I think a Frenchman) to graduation while Messiah got quite a bit stronger in the back. They also like to put a big man in as target, which can make things interesting on set plays or when Waso has the ball outside the box. We'll have to see what happens.
On the other side of the ball, the most dangerous Falcons are Colby Thomas, who can break you down on the right side and either pass or shoot for a score; and Jacob Bender, who is now playing MF instead of in back, and who is extremely dangerous on free kicks--I'm starting to hear, "bend 'em like Bender." He also takes the corner kicks, but the Falcons aren't as tall as they have been recently and they often take short corners instead, usually involving Colby. Despite what I just said about Waso, it could be that Colby is as good as Waso now that he's healthy. I haven't seen enough of him live yet to be confident of that--the streaming doesn't usually give good closeup views.
My recollection of last year's Messiah-E-town tilt, is that, outside of some isolated instances, Waso was kept pretty well in-check in the second half. It wasn't so much that they played him better when he had the ball, but rather that Messiah was better in maintaining possession (less possession for E-town) in the second half and, when E-town did have the ball, not allowing them to find Waso and get him involved in the play. Yes, he was still dangerous when he did get the ball in the second half, but that didn't happen nearly as much as in the first half. So I wouldn't exactly describe him as being dangerous all game, but maybe others saw it more like you did. The first half for me showed what Waso was capable of, but the second half showed that you can game plan and play to minimize his impact and as the season wore on, he seemed to have fewer games in which he made the difference which is somewhat reasonable as he was no longer this unknown that surprised teams. Just my 2 cents.
Just looking at the ETOWN's schedule I do not see more than 1 quality win on it. Are they for real this year? I have not seen them play and a 4-1 win over TCNJ is impressive but the tough games they have played they have either lost or tied. I also understand in a rivalry game you can throw the records out the window but I do not see them winning this game and frankly if they lose this game their Pool C chances might fly out the window with it.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on September 28, 2016, 01:08:20 PM
My recollection of last year's Messiah-E-town tilt, is that, outside of some isolated instances, Waso was kept pretty well in-check in the second half. It wasn't so much that they played him better when he had the ball, but rather that Messiah was better in maintaining possession (less possession for E-town) in the second half and, when E-town did have the ball, not allowing them to find Waso and get him involved in the play. Yes, he was still dangerous when he did get the ball in the second half, but that didn't happen nearly as much as in the first half. So I wouldn't exactly describe him as being dangerous all game, but maybe others saw it more like you did. The first half for me showed what Waso was capable of, but the second half showed that you can game plan and play to minimize his impact and as the season wore on, he seemed to have fewer games in which he made the difference which is somewhat reasonable as he was no longer this unknown that surprised teams. Just my 2 cents.
Weasel is right. The Falcons played possession much more effectively in the second half last year, so Waso didn't get many touches. I should have said, "I was worried about Waso all game, b/c when he has the ball he's very dangerous." Kudos to FW for a more precise opinion.
Wason has 5 goals already this year, with several of the same opponents, so he's still dangerous. Colby Thomas also has 5 goals this year, and I know he's dangerous. The big factor could be heavy rain, which is supposed to begin in about half an hour and in quantities that are giving rise to flood warnings. If that likely scenario transpires it might seriously impact the Falcons, much more than the Blue Jays. The Falcons are in general faster & quicker to the ball, factors that a quagmire will eliminate; and their one-touch passing game will be obliterated. That would be a shame, but what can you do?
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 28, 2016, 01:16:38 PM
Just looking at the ETOWN's schedule I do not see more than 1 quality win on it. Are they for real this year? I have not seen them play and a 4-1 win over TCNJ is impressive but the tough games they have played they have either lost or tied. I also understand in a rivalry game you can throw the records out the window but I do not see them winning this game and frankly if they lose this game their Pool C chances might fly out the window with it.
I hear you, Mr. Right: I agree that Etown has more to prove tonight than Messiah, but the magnitude of this rivalry cannot be disregarded. It's one of the greatest rivalries in all of D3 soccer, and every player knows it. I wish I could count Etown out, but I can't.
For example, a great Messiah team in 2006, led by four-time AA Kai Kasiguran, lost at home to Etown, 1-0. They outshot Etown 16-1, including 8 SOG (one of them saved off the line), but just couldn't buy a goal. I don't know whether the one goal was a PK--it might have been. Dustin Shambach was the best keeper Messiah ever had, and it's hard to think he would otherwise give up a goal on the only shot. If you saw the sweet sixteen game in Williamstown that year, Mr Right, then you will surely remember the truly unbelievable save that Shambach came up with to save their bacon in a scoreless tie. So, I'm guessing that unassisted Etown goal was a PK. I was involved with a business event that evening so I missed seeing it, or I'd probably remember something like that. It happens.
I don't expect similar stats tonight--Etown will surely get more than one shot. Messiah's back line doesn't include another JD Binger or even an Andy Rosamilia. The only prediction I will make: both teams will score.
Here's the box for that 2006 game: http://www.messiah.edu/gomessiah/sports/mens_soccer/statistics/2006/ccsemi.htm
The cumulative season stats shows opponents being 0-for-1 on PKs for the season. So don't think it was a PK. I was not there, but should have been listening to the radio webcast, but I personally can't recall anything about the goal.
I am not totally sure what to think of Rochester yet. They have certainly bounced back from a disappointing year last year, and 7-0-1 is an impressive start. However, they've played 5 of those 8 games at home. Moreover, 6 of their 7 wins have been by 1 goal, and while Brandeis won the UAA and got to the Sweet 16 last year with 16 one-goal victories, I don't know if grinding out wins is Rochester's MO or whether they simply aren't able to score more consistently. I think the only team that they've played so far that might be (and far off given where they are right now) regionally ranked is RPI, and that was a 0-0 draw (albeit on the road, so perhaps a good result).
Looking at their schedule, it seems that Rochester frontloaded a bunch of easier games in the first half of their season (which concluded at Alfred), while the second half of their schedule sees them play all 7 UAA games (4 of which are away) plus Vassar, so things are definitely getting tougher. And while I can understand scheduling easier games earlier in the season to build confidence, the Yellowjackets could be in for a rude awakening when they start playing conference games, as they graduated 3 of 4 defenders IIRC. Certainly the signs are promising in terms of Rochester putting together a good season and getting a Pool C bid, but I could just as easily see them crumbling and going, say, 2-4-1 in the UAA. The jury is still out for me.
Quote from: Falconer on September 28, 2016, 12:15:08 PM
I don't like to predict scores, especially not for big rivalry games like Etown (19) at Messiah (20) where literally anything can happen. They go in as evenly matched on paper as it has ever been. Both teams are very young, with most of the best players either Fr or Soph. Last year, when both teams had a few senior starters, Etown dominated the first half, got a great goal from Gilbert Waso (who was dangerous all game long), and Messiah dominated the second half without getting a goal. 1-0. IMO Etown earned a spot in the tournament, but they were denied. This game looms large in tournament hopes for both sides, and I expect a barn burner.
What to watch for? How will Messiah defend MF Gilbert Waso? He's a stud even at 5-5. Probably the best player I saw in person last fall, when he was just a freshman, and he was indeed voted an AA. Messiah had no answer for him. If that is true again tonight, Etown probably wins. However, Etown lost an AA defender (I think a Frenchman) to graduation while Messiah got quite a bit stronger in the back. They also like to put a big man in as target, which can make things interesting on set plays or when Waso has the ball outside the box. We'll have to see what happens.
On the other side of the ball, the most dangerous Falcons are Colby Thomas, who can break you down on the right side and either pass or shoot for a score; and Jacob Bender, who is now playing MF instead of in back, and who is extremely dangerous on free kicks--I'm starting to hear, "bend 'em like Bender." He also takes the corner kicks, but the Falcons aren't as tall as they have been recently and they often take short corners instead, usually involving Colby. Despite what I just said about Waso, it could be that Colby is as good as Waso now that he's healthy. I haven't seen enough of him live yet to be confident of that--the streaming doesn't usually give good closeup views.
Last game for Messiah the back 4 was quite different due to 2 injuries to Shay and Dakota. Shifting players around and starting different players to fill in. Not sure what the back 4 will look like tonight. The only constant had been Josh bender. Still thinking at home they will prevail and score at least 2.
Great game..a tale of two halves. Etown had better play and lots of pressure early in the game. Messiah settled in and had some real quality chances in 2nd half before finally getting the winner in first OT. Good win for Messiah and Etown showed they are a solid team. They had a dangerous player on their squad and Messiah defense did a good job limiting his opportunities.
Messiah 1, Etown zip, OT. Both teams played well, but the Falcons dominated all three periods. Etown was very dangerous on set plays, nearly scoring twice, but the Falcon keeper came up big. The difference defensively from last year is night and day. This was their best defensive effort in two seasons, at least for games I've seen.
Rudy, the back line looked terrific tonight. They found an answer to Gilbert Waso, not allowing him any decent looks and doubling him up when he had the ball in the open field. Falcons won with what looked like a deflected ground ball shot by Jacob Bender in the first OT. It was a really good look, but not Jacob's best shot of the evening---that one was in the second half, a very well struck ball that was easily handled by Etown's keeper. Concerning the GW shot, I'll have to see the replay to see what I actually saw. ;D
Etown's keeper also played well, but his back line was much more porous than Messiah's. The sopping wet field certainly influenced the game--in one skip of the heartbeat, a Messiah defender just fell down of his own accord a few yards in front of the net, as the ball was being played into the box. That was close. Lots of missed passes that probably connect on a dry evening. But, the Falcons still used their overall superiority in speed and quickness to their advantage. Etown was broken down repeatedly on both wings. Colby Thomas should have had two assists in the first half, on terrific passes across the goal mouth, but both time no one got a decent foot on it. Nick West on the other side was not quite that dangerous, but he had the ball a lot more often than Colby and he didn't waste his chances.
If this one had ended with the opposite result, it would not have reflected the flow of the game.
A huge win for the Falcons.
Thoughts on results last night?
Any games this weekend which catch your eye?
Misercordia with a big time win against Lycoming. I think the Miseri game winner and Messiah game winner ( both in OT) were within seconds of each other in Real Time.
I am afraid that is all she wrote for the Warriors. They have fallen into the category of all or nothing and are in the sad mix of Montclair, Brandeis, Tufts, Wheaton, and Loras of big time names that will not be dancing this season. It is sad to see all these talented teams struggle this year but that is why you play the game. Now obviously these teams still have the conference AQ to play for but it's that or bust for these teams right now.
They have a chance to make it but it will be tough with how many teams are already ahead of them in the region.
I said in the summer that Lyco could afford 9 blemishes with this schedule... let's see what happens... SOS/OWP is .688 (has to be a top 5 in the nation) with Messiah (likely twice AWAY), Stevens, Oneonta St AWAY, LVC... NCAA Regional ranking is going to have them higher than we expect (assuming they beat the teams they are supposed to beat). 62% win percentage with an SOS around .665... they'd better be in the tournament considering how many times these UAA schools get the nod.
Which conference from the Mid-Atlantic is likely to have a two bid league; MACC or Landmark? Could be a moot point with Lycoming already taking down Scranton.
8 teams
Haverford and F&M
Messiah and Lycoming
E-town and (Scranton)
Eastern or Miseri (one bid league)
Cabrini
Morrisville St (NEAC)
Quote from: Falconer on September 28, 2016, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 28, 2016, 01:16:38 PM
Just looking at the ETOWN's schedule I do not see more than 1 quality win on it. Are they for real this year? I have not seen them play and a 4-1 win over TCNJ is impressive but the tough games they have played they have either lost or tied. I also understand in a rivalry game you can throw the records out the window but I do not see them winning this game and frankly if they lose this game their Pool C chances might fly out the window with it.
I hear you, Mr. Right: I agree that Etown has more to prove tonight than Messiah, but the magnitude of this rivalry cannot be disregarded. It's one of the greatest rivalries in all of D3 soccer, and every player knows it. I wish I could count Etown out, but I can't.
For example, a great Messiah team in 2006, led by four-time AA Kai Kasiguran, lost at home to Etown, 1-0. They outshot Etown 16-1, including 8 SOG (one of them saved off the line), but just couldn't buy a goal. I don't know whether the one goal was a PK--it might have been. Dustin Shambach was the best keeper Messiah ever had, and it's hard to think he would otherwise give up a goal on the only shot. If you saw the sweet sixteen game in Williamstown that year, Mr Right, then you will surely remember the truly unbelievable save that Shambach came up with to save their bacon in a scoreless tie. So, I'm guessing that unassisted Etown goal was a PK. I was involved with a business event that evening so I missed seeing it, or I'd probably remember something like that. It happens.
I don't expect similar stats tonight--Etown will surely get more than one shot. Messiah's back line doesn't include another JD Binger or even an Andy Rosamilia. The only prediction I will make: both teams will score.
Here's the box for that 2006 game: http://www.messiah.edu/gomessiah/sports/mens_soccer/statistics/2006/ccsemi.htm
I remember the 2006 Sweet 16 tilt Williams v Messiah like it was yesterday. Williams caught Messiah off guard in the first 5 minutes with 2 GOLDEN opportunities to score but Brett Olsen and John Hillman just could not finish. The save you are referencing was the BEST save I HAVE ever seen in a live game. I was standing behind the goal when it happened and I turned to my friend and said that kid just made a PRO save. I mean some PRO"S would not have made that save. He was an unbelievable GK. The game was the best 0-0 game I can remember.
I caught the 1st Half of Messiah v ETOWN last night and on video I like what I saw from Etown at least in the 1st Half. They had Messiah pinned in at times and Messiah's backs were hoofing it just to get the ball cleared. I do not remember ever seeing a Messiah side hoof so much. It was actually Etown who was playing some nice futbol on the ground and connecting clear crisp passes. They did not have to many great chances but they could have snagged a goal. Now I only saw the 1st Half so maybe things changed throughout the game or there was a wind advantage / disadvantage. Just my 1st Half thoughts.....
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 29, 2016, 12:45:49 PM
I caught the 1st Half of Messiah v ETOWN last night and on video I like what I saw from Etown at least in the 1st Half. They had Messiah pinned in at times and Messiah's backs were hoofing it just to get the ball cleared. I do not remember ever seeing a Messiah side hoof so much. It was actually Etown who was playing some nice futbol on the ground and connecting clear crisp passes. They did not have to many great chances but they could have snagged a goal. Now I only saw the 1st Half so maybe things changed throughout the game or there was a wind advantage / disadvantage. Just my 1st Half thoughts.....
Yes this is accurate for first 20 minutes. Messiah was on their heals. Later in first half the play evened out more. Second half and ot Messiah took over. Had much more possession and scoring chances. Thats why I said before it was a tale of two halves.
For Mr Right:
Thank you very much for telling us about that Messiah-Williams game, esp that particular save. I wish I'd also been there too. I had to listen on the radio. The play-by-play announcers (Williams College announcers, if I recall correctly) just lost it on that one: they simply could not believe what they had seen. I knew a couple of the players on that Messiah team, including Kasiguran (who is now a highly successful accountant near Philly), and they couldn't believe it either. They knew Shambaugh had saved their whole season on that one play. So, I had to envision it in my mind, as I envisioned great plays in baseball over the radio as a boy. Again, I'm in your debt for sharing that memory.
Shambaugh was a baseball player and GK at a D2 or NAIA school, where he had a scholarship of some size, before transferring to Messiah to play for Brandt. I don't know the full story, but he was undoubtedly the best keeper Messiah ever had. A previous GK, Chris Boyles (he was in goal for the Falcons' first title in 2000 vs Rowan), was not quite as good but almost certainly the greatest all-around athlete ever to play D3 soccer. I base that statement on the fact that he not only won the D3 decathlon, but he also won the open decathlon at the Penn Relays (where competition came from athletes in every division) and then later qualified for the Olympic trials. He had injury problems that forced him to give that up without ever making an Olympic team, but you don't qualify for the trials in that sport without being a world class athlete. It certainly doesn't hurt your chances in goal if you can high jump 6-10. (See the story here: http://articles.philly.com/2001-04-25/sports/25329601_1_decathlon-penn-relays-jump )
Boyles just wasn't on anyone's radar screen in high school, or Messiah would never have gotten him. Again, I don't know the full story.
As for my statement that the Falcons dominated Etown in all three periods, I still say that, but I agree that Etown ruled the first 16-20 minutes of the game, despite the fact that their top player Gilbert Waso was held in check throughout. My opinion reflects the facts that (1) Waso was indeed neutralized for most of the game, which is no small feat, since Etown runs their offense through him, regardless of whether he plays MF or target (he played both roles at various points); and (2) the Falcons had two wonderful scoring chances that did not actually result in shots of any kind, let alone SOGs. They were the two brilliant passes by Colby Thomas right across the mouth of the goal, with teammates in the general vicinity in both instances. If anything, those passes were just too good to believe: no one connected with them perhaps b/c they did not anticipate actually receiving those passes. In both instances Thomas broke down the left side defenders to get himself sufficiently open to make such passes. If they had both resulted in either goals or brilliant saves, I think most fans would say that Messiah dominated the first half. Etown got more shots in the first half, but none of them came off of chances as good as the two that Thomas created, which simply do not show up in the box score at all.
Misericordia University beats Lyco!
As I said before when Messiah played Misericordia at Misericordia...they have come on as of late and play well at home. No losses at home and only one tie against Messiah at home. Early in the season on the road they took their lumps but they are not a pushover by any means.
Looks like Lebanon Valley is also playing well at home and will not be easy game for Messiah next game. Watching games from other conferences ..it seems there are a lot of close games that could go either way based on a ball going 6 inches lower, to the right or left. Have to look at the overall record of teams...can't just take one or two games to make a judgement. Injuries, weather, luck, all have can cause a few blemishes. Amherst barely squeaked by MIT for example. Tufts floundering without biggest offensive threat (injury), etc.
Quote from: Falconer on September 28, 2016, 09:47:07 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 28, 2016, 09:15:10 AM
Lyco vs Miseri... The team that scores first, wins. I'm backing the Warriors in this one.
You could be right, and Lycoming has to be the favorite, but the Cougars came back from a deficit against Messiah and they are dangerous on set plays. If they play well enough to get several of those, they might even win this one. Both teams play on turf so that's not a factor.
I know I don't usually call attention to my own comments, but I'll make an exception for this one. Misericordia scored both goals on set pieces, one a free kick just outside the box (according to the recap at Miseri's site) and the other on a long throw-in into the box. Otherwise it was a very even game statistically, with the Cougars edging the Warriors in SOG (5 to 4) and corners (10 to 9).
I understand why some may be inclined to downgrade Lycoming for this road loss, but Misericordia is a better team than many have realized, especially at home. They gave Messiah all they could handle last week and Lycoming more than they could handle this week.
Related to this, two of the presumed softies on Messiah's schedule this year (Misericordia, whom the Falcons play quite often, and Lynchburg, who is not a regular opponent) are both much better than many probably assumed. True, Lynchburg didn't even try to score against the Falcons, giving evidence at that time that they weren't very strong, but that now appears perhaps to have been a strategic choice not to get an early loss. Misericordia, however, played the Falcons straight up. Kudos to them.
From what I have heard, Lycoming dominated a majority of the game, as I am sure Messiah did as well, but couldn't capitalize on their opportunities. Misericordia played them tough and, from what Falconer said, it sounds like they did this with Messiah too. I think you might see Misericordia regain some steam in the Freedom Conference, but it's still too early to tell. Great win for the Cougars and a tough loss for the Warriors.
Weekend Match-Ups
Freedom
Del Val@Wilkes
Manhattanville@Eastern
Desales@FDU
Kings@Misericordia
Commonwealth
Albright@Hood
Messiah@Leb Val
Arcadia@Lyco
Stevenson@Widener
Landmark
Juniata@Catholic
Susquehanna@Goucher
Etown@Scranton
Moravian@Drew
CSAC
Summit@GM
Centenary@Cabrini
Neuman@Cairn
Marywood@Rosemont
Immaculata@Keystone
Centennial
Gettys@Fords
Muhles@F&M
Wash@McDaniel
Ursinus@Swat
Dickinson@JHU
Predictions
Freedom
Del Val@Wilkes---------------4-3 Wilkes
Manhattanville@Eastern------1-1
DeSales@FDU----------------2-1 FDU
Kings@Misericordia----------2-0 Miseri
Commonwealth
Albright@Hood--------------3-1 Hood
Messiah@Leb Val------------2-1 Messiah
Arcadia@Lyco---------------2-1 Lyco OT
Stevenson@Widener--------1-1
Landmark
Juniata@Catholic------------2-1 Catholic 2OT
Susquehanna@Goucher----2-1 Susquehanna
Etown@Scranton-----------1-0 Scranton OT
Moravian@Drew------------4-1 Drew
CSAC
Summit@GM----------------3-0 GM
Centenary@Cabrini----------2-2
Neuman@Cairn--------------1-0 Neuman
Marywood@Rosemont------5-2 Marywood
Immaculata@Keystone-----3-2 Keystone 2OT
Centennial
Gettys@Fords-------------2-1 Fords OT
Muhles@F&M--------------1-1
Wash@McDaniel-----------2-1 McDaniel
Ursinus@Swat-------------3-0 Swat
Dickinson@JHU------------2-2
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on September 30, 2016, 10:48:49 AM
Weekend Match-Ups
Freedom
Del Val@Wilkes
Manhattanville@Eastern
Desales@FDU
Kings@Misericordia
Commonwealth
Albright@Hood
Messiah@Leb Val
Arcadia@Lyco
Stevenson@Widener
Landmark
Juniata@Catholic
Susquehanna@Goucher
Etown@Scranton
Moravian@Drew
CSAC
Summit@GM
Centenary@Cabrini
Neuman@Cairn
Marywood@Rosemont
Immaculata@Keystone
Centennial
Gettys@Fords
Muhles@F&M
Wash@McDaniel
Ursinus@Swat
Dickinson@JHU
Predictions
Freedom
Del Val@Wilkes---------------4-3 Wilkes
Manhattanville@Eastern------1-1
DeSales@FDU----------------2-1 FDU
Kings@Misericordia----------2-0 Miseri
Commonwealth
Albright@Hood--------------3-1 Hood
Messiah@Leb Val------------2-1 Messiah
Arcadia@Lyco---------------2-1 Lyco OT
Stevenson@Widener--------1-1
Landmark
Juniata@Catholic------------2-1 Catholic 2OT
Susquehanna@Goucher----2-1 Susquehanna
Etown@Scranton-----------1-0 Scranton OT
Moravian@Drew------------4-1 Drew
CSAC
Summit@GM----------------3-0 GM
Centenary@Cabrini----------2-2
Neuman@Cairn--------------1-0 Neuman
Marywood@Rosemont------5-2 Marywood
Immaculata@Keystone-----3-2 Keystone 2OT
Centennial
Gettys@Fords-------------2-1 Fords OT
Muhles@F&M--------------1-1
Wash@McDaniel-----------2-1 McDaniel
Ursinus@Swat-------------3-0 Swat
Dickinson@JHU------------2-2
Gettysburg could pull an upset. They would probably have better chance at home but they can score suddenly/quickly as evidenced in the back to back goals against Messiah. Muhles could take out F&M if F&M leading scorer still out.
Messiah at Lebanon Valley is interesting one. Sure LV has been playing some soft teams lately but they have that 4-0 win over a team that Messiah tied..fluke or are they for real? Messiah has struggled to score away as well. Messiah needs this win on the road..hopefully they will prevail.
Etown-Scranton will be an interesting matchup. Scranton started strong as well as Etown...this will have regional ranking implications.
I will say even with the best SOS in the country IIRC, Lyco at 5-4-1 is in trouble for a Pool C. In 2011 Williams had the best SOS in the country and had something like a 9-4-2 Record and were left out...Lyco will need to beat Oneonta and really get on a win streak.
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 30, 2016, 12:54:19 PM
I will say even with the best SOS in the country IIRC, Lyco at 5-4-1 is in trouble for a Pool C. In 2011 Williams had the best SOS in the country and had something like a 9-4-2 Record and were left out...Lyco will need to beat Oneonta and really get on a win streak.
Mr. Right---Lyco is 5-3-2. Wins over Susquehanna, Juniata, Scranton, Frostburg, and Case Western. Losses to Rowan, F&M, and Misericordia. Ties to Eastern and Haverford.
Shooter's Predictions
Freedom
Del Val@Wilkes---------------3-2 Wilkes
Manhattanville@Eastern------2-1 Manhattanville 2OT
DeSales@FDU----------------2-2
Kings@Misericordia----------1-0 Misericordia OT
Commonwealth
Albright@Hood--------------2-1 Hood
Messiah@Leb Val------------3-1 Messiah
Arcadia@Lyco---------------2-1 Lycoming OT
Stevenson@Widener--------1-0
Landmark
Juniata@Catholic------------0-0
Susquehanna@Goucher----1-0 Susquehanna
Etown@Scranton-----------1-0 Scranton
Moravian@Drew-------------2-2
CSAC
Summit@GM----------------2-1 GM
Centenary@Cabrini----------2-0 Cabrini
Neuman@Cairn--------------5-0 Neuman
Marywood@Rosemont------3-2 Marywood
Immaculata@Keystone-----1-0 Keystone OT
Centennial
Gettys@Fords-------------1-1
Muhles@F&M--------------0-0
Wash@McDaniel-----------2-1 Wash
Ursinus@Swat-------------2-1 Ursinus
Dickinson@JHU------------1-0 Dickinson
Weather may impact these games; and in Scranton's case since they don't have a press box may impact their ability to live stream.
Predictions
Messiah@Leb Val------------3-1 Messiah
Arcadia@Lyco---------------2-1 Lyco
Etown@Scranton-----------2-1 Scranton OT
Gettys@Fords-------------2-2
Muhles@F&M--------------2-0 F&M
Wash@McDaniel-----------2-1 Wash
Ursinus@Swat-------------2-0 Swat
Dickinson@JHU------------3-2 JHU
I think Messiah will be flying high after the Etown victory. I don't think Leb Val will provide enough resistance in this one.
Lyco bounces back from their defeat to escape against Arcadia but I'm not sold on Lyco at all.
Speaking of not sold... I'm not sold on Etown and I think Scranton sneaks in here with a victory. They beat them last year in the conference tournament and I think they step up again.
Gettysburg is a dangerous team with plenty of attacking weapons. I'm not sure the Fords have the firepower to match Henry Smith and co. but they've been finding a way to get results and I think they squeeze a tie out here. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Gettysburg bounce back from the Hopkins loss with a win but I also wouldn't be surprised for the Fords to continue to find a way, I'm just not yet sold on them.
I think Muhlenberg will provide a test for F&M but the Dips have enough firepower to walk away with a W here. The Centennial has been up and down this season with some weird results but I think order is restored here, although the game is closer than the 2-0 scoreline appears.
Hopkins keeps rolling in a high scoring affair. What has become of Dickinson? Coach Redding has to be ripping his hair out with this start to the season. Hopkins is an up and down team but I'm picking them to keep the momentum from Gettysburg rolling.
Welcome to the board Phillyfan....In Wentz we trust!
Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 01, 2016, 10:24:22 AM
Welcome to the board Phillyfan....In Wentz we trust!
Trust. The. Process.
Wet conditions today..must have impacted the games..but gotta play them anyway..
Haverford edges Gettysburg 3-2 in OT to get the win
Messiah 1-0 over LVC
Etown 2-1 over Scranton
F&M 3-2 over Muhl in OT
Had Haverford or F&M lost I think we would have seen Messiah push ahead of them in regional rankings with Messiah recent wins over Etown and LVC. But likely top 3 will be F&M, Haverford, Messiah. Etown should be behind Messiah maybe drop lower than 4
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
Misericordia is 5-0-1 at home (wins over York, RUC, Lyco) and 1-3-0 on the road (losses at LVC, Arcadia, Scranton) and has just two remaining home games against six roads games. All those away matches are very winnable, especially with Dickinson struggling this season, but we'll see how the Cougars manage. Manhattanville next Saturday may be the biggest road test.
LVC looked pretty good against Messiah and created sufficient danger and opportunities to have tied and even won. Messiah still was the better side, but needed to score a second and just never got the job done and that made for a nervy game to the final whistle. Conditions weren't good, playing in the rain and with footing very precarious throughout, so not fair to judge either team on the basis of this game. But to the extent that conclusions can be drawn from the game, LVC looked like they could give most teams a fight and a team no opponent should look past.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 02, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
Misericordia is 5-0-1 at home (wins over York, RUC, Lyco) and 1-3-0 on the road (losses at LVC, Arcadia, Scranton) and has just two remaining home games against six roads games. All those away matches are very winnable, especially with Dickinson struggling this season, but we'll see how the Cougars manage. Manhattanville next Saturday may be the biggest road test.
LVC looked pretty good against Messiah and created sufficient danger and opportunities to have tied and even won. Messiah still was the better side, but needed to score a second and just never got the job done and that made for a nervy game to the final whistle. Conditions weren't good, playing in the rain and with footing very precarious throughout, so not fair to judge either team on the basis of this game. But to the extent that conclusions can be drawn from the game, LVC looked like they could give most teams a fight and a team no opponent should look past.
Yes, LVC looked as good as their record. As for scoring chances, it should be noted that two of the five key attackers for Messiah didn't play a single minute--Plaza and Thomas. They must have been hurt vs Etown or in a subsequent practice. Thomas was replaced on the right wing by Cochrane, who had been playing in the exact opposite position (left outside back), where he had been replacing another man who is still injured, namely, freshman Quintin (Rudy's son). So, the Falcons are currently down 3 starters, two on offense, including their most dangerous player (IMO), Colby Thomas. The lack of a second scoring chance surely has something to do with LVC's defensive toughness and the miserable weather (which usually hurts the Falcons more than their opponents), but also IMO the loss of these 3 starters. Quintin is excellent with the ball at his feet, and he comes fairly far up when attacking, so his loss also counts on the offensive end.
Quote from: Falconer on October 02, 2016, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 02, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
Misericordia is 5-0-1 at home (wins over York, RUC, Lyco) and 1-3-0 on the road (losses at LVC, Arcadia, Scranton) and has just two remaining home games against six roads games. All those away matches are very winnable, especially with Dickinson struggling this season, but we'll see how the Cougars manage. Manhattanville next Saturday may be the biggest road test.
LVC looked pretty good against Messiah and created sufficient danger and opportunities to have tied and even won. Messiah still was the better side, but needed to score a second and just never got the job done and that made for a nervy game to the final whistle. Conditions weren't good, playing in the rain and with footing very precarious throughout, so not fair to judge either team on the basis of this game. But to the extent that conclusions can be drawn from the game, LVC looked like they could give most teams a fight and a team no opponent should look past.
Yes, LVC looked as good as their record. As for scoring chances, it should be noted that two of the five key attackers for Messiah didn't play a single minute--Plaza and Thomas. They must have been hurt vs Etown or in a subsequent practice. Thomas was replaced on the right wing by Cochrane, who had been playing in the exact opposite position (left outside back), where he had been replacing another man who is still injured, namely, freshman Quintin (Rudy's son). So, the Falcons are currently down 3 starters, two on offense, including their most dangerous player (IMO), Colby Thomas. The lack of a second scoring chance surely has something to do with LVC's defensive toughness and the miserable weather (which usually hurts the Falcons more than their opponents), but also IMO the loss of these 3 starters. Quintin is excellent with the ball at his feet, and he comes fairly far up when attacking, so his loss also counts on the offensive end.
I watched some of the game and did not realize Colby was out. Video quality not great and kept dropping. I thought I saw him in the game... guess not. Shay should be back soon..maybe a week or so. And Plaza is fighting nagging groin injury I think. Messiah has good depth so they can withstand a few injuries better than some. Hopefully Colby will not be out more games though!
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 02, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
They are done. It's win the AQ or nothing for the Warriors this year. Probably the biggest disappointment in the region by far.
MAF Power Rankings
1. Fords
2. F&M
3. Messiah
4. Etown
5. Scranton
6. Eastern
7. Hopkins
8. Manhattanville
9. Leb Val
10. Misericordia
Shooter's Take
1. Messiah
2. Fords
3. F&M
4. Etown
5. Scranton
6. Eastern
7. LVC
8. Misericordia
9. Hopkins
10. Lycoming
HM: Manhattanville, Hood, Drew, Arcadia, Gettysburg
October 4, 2016
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 5
Through games of Sunday, October 2, 2016
# School (1st Pl. Votes) Record Pts. Prev.
1 Chicago (12) 11-0-0 980 4
2 Trinity (Texas) (4) 11-0-0 950 5
3 Rowan (3) 10-0-1 920 1
4 Ohio Northern 11-0-1 886 6
5 Washington & Lee 8-1-0 828 7
6 Calvin 9-1-0 790 8
7 St. Lawrence 9-1-0 750 9
8 Amherst 7-1-1 700 3
9 Mass-Boston (1) 10-0-0 684 10
10 Franklin & Marshall 7-1-3 555 14
11 Kenyon 8-2-0 523 2
12 Haverford 7-1-2 515 15
13 Messiah 7-0-3 504 20
14 Middlebury 5-0-2 502 12
15 Washington U. 6-0-1 476 17
16 Chris. Newport 9-2-0 470 16
17 Carnegie Mellon 7-1-1 319 18
18 Macalester 8-1-2 302 11
19 Lynchburg 7-0-2 275 25
20 Rochester 7-0-2 256 —
21 Oneonta State 8-2-1 241 21
22 Elizabethtown 6-2-1 198 19
23 Colorado College 8-1-1 195 —
24 St. Thomas 9-0-2 125 —
25 Capital 9-1-0 100 —
Dropped out: No. 13 Ohio Wesleyan, No. 22 Plattsburgh State, No. 23 Brandeis, No. 24 Loras
Receiving Votes: Ohio Wesleyan 86, Dubuque 80, Springfield 60, Redlands 38, Luther 32, Gordon 28, Cortland State 18, Plattsburgh State 14, Oberlin 14, Lebanon Valley 12, Scranton 10, Connecticut College 10, Rutgers-Newark 10, Lycoming 8, Clark 8, Loras 6, Montclair State 6, North Park 2
Mid-Atlantic Region: Breakdown by Ranking
Team Name D3 Poll Massey Hero NSCAA NSCAA RR
F&M 10 24 27 12 2
Fords 12 23 36 5 1
Messiah 13 11 11 21 3
Etown 22 32 22 RV 4
LVC RV(12) 110 71 6
Scranton RV(10) 48 60 5
Lyco RV(8) 44 40 8
Eastern NR 81 91 NR
Hopkins NR 77 80 7
Misericordia NR 84 106 9
Gettysburg NR 65 81 10
Manhattanville NR 69 104 NR
Arcadia NR 112 148 NR
When it's all said and done I think you will see something close to this...and boy oh boy that's going to be exciting to see who gets slotted where!
Messiah------------13-1-1
Fords--------------12-2-3
F&M---------------11-2-4
Etown-------------12-2-2
Scranton----------12-3-1
Eastern------------13-3-2
LVC---------------11-4-1
Misericordia-------11-5-2
Hopkins-----------11-3-3
Lycoming---------11-4-4
Gettysburg--------9-4-3
Manhattanville----13-4-1
A team to watch is up and coming Manhattanville...they could sneak into at-large bid conversation if they can keep their string of recent wins up. I am curious to what their SOS will be. They have played notables of NYU (W), Vassar (L), RPI (W), Oneonta (L), Drew (L), Eastern (W), Montclair (TBD), and Misericordia (TBD). I believe with other weaker opponents in the non-conference plus in conference their SOS will be hovering around the .505-.515 range, but they have some decent teams they have faced which will help balance that.
RvR somewhere around 1-2-0 w/2 remaining games...should be interesting to see how they develop through the rest of conference play. I would keep my eyes on them!
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 04, 2016, 04:19:26 PM
When it's all said and done I think you will see something close to this...and boy oh boy that's going to be exciting to see who gets slotted where!
Messiah------------13-1-1
Fords--------------12-2-3
F&M---------------11-2-4
Etown-------------12-2-2
Scranton----------12-3-1
Eastern------------13-3-2
LVC---------------11-4-1
Misericordia-------11-5-2
Hopkins-----------11-3-3
Lycoming---------11-4-4
Gettysburg--------9-4-3
Manhattanville----13-4-1
You must mean Messiah 13-1-3? Washington &Lee Saturday away will be a hurdle. Could be a loss or tie. May be impacted by who is healthy to play but so far the depth of roster has proven to be very positive. Some players have played multiple positions depending on need game to game and have performed excellently. Will C comes to mind but others have also played different positions. A win will put them in good position for bid even if they fail to get the AQ.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 03, 2016, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 02, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
They are done. It's win the AQ or nothing for the Warriors this year. Probably the biggest disappointment in the region by far.
Interestingly, as it stands right now based on overall records, Lycoming would not even make the conference playoffs.
Quote from: rudy on October 04, 2016, 05:08:46 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 04, 2016, 04:19:26 PM
When it's all said and done I think you will see something close to this...and boy oh boy that's going to be exciting to see who gets slotted where!
Messiah------------13-1-1
Fords--------------12-2-3
F&M---------------11-2-4
Etown-------------12-2-2
Scranton----------12-3-1
Eastern------------13-3-2
LVC---------------11-4-1
Misericordia-------11-5-2
Hopkins-----------11-3-3
Lycoming---------11-4-4
Gettysburg--------9-4-3
Manhattanville----13-4-1
You must mean Messiah 13-1-3? Washington &Lee Saturday away will be a hurdle. Could be a loss or tie. May be impacted by who is healthy to play but so far the depth of roster has proven to be very positive. Some players have played multiple positions depending on need game to game and have performed excellently. Will C comes to mind but others have also played different positions. A win will put them in good position for bid even if they fail to get the AQ.
13-1-4* Sorry!!
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 05, 2016, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 03, 2016, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 02, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
They are done. It's win the AQ or nothing for the Warriors this year. Probably the biggest disappointment in the region by far.
Interestingly, as it stands right now based on overall records, Lycoming would not even make the conference playoffs.
Too bad conference playoffs only consider conference records and not your overall record....
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 05, 2016, 08:40:41 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 05, 2016, 12:01:15 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 03, 2016, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 02, 2016, 08:08:23 AM
Lyco held to 1-1 tie at home on Homecoming weekend by visiting Arcadia. Lyco now has 6 blemishes at 5-3-3 after 11 matches versus just four blemishes all last year in 22 matches (18-2-2). Their defense is giving up almost two more SOG each game (5.2 vs. 3.4 in 2015) and that's something the Warriors can't afford with the goalkeepeers they have. Save Pct. is down from a weak .824 last year to an even more porous .765 this year (last year's starter has not played in a bunch of games, not sure if this is injury or performance based).
They are done. It's win the AQ or nothing for the Warriors this year. Probably the biggest disappointment in the region by far.
Interestingly, as it stands right now based on overall records, Lycoming would not even make the conference playoffs.
Too bad conference playoffs only consider conference records and not your overall record....
Lots of conference games still to play. I suspect Lycoming will do enough to qualify for conf playoffs
Thoughts
F&M at Stevens--- F&M 2-1 win
Rutgers-Camden at Haverford--- I'll go with Haverford in OT
Messiah 2, Alvernia 0
Miseri 1, Dickinson 2.
Drew can't hold off Scranton...
LVC 2, Arcadia 3
MSU 4, Manhattanville 2.
I saw Manhattanville last year and I do think they are dangerous, but MSU will be too much for them. MSU has Rowan next, so this could your classic "look over" game.
James Brett with two point blank saves late to lift Camden over Haverford... Big road win for the Raptors. Only saw the 2nd half, Haverford not too dangerous in final third and could not break Camden down.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on October 05, 2016, 05:55:48 PM
James Brett with two point blank saves late to lift Camden over Haverford... Big road win for the Raptors. Only saw the 2nd half, Haverford not too dangerous in final third and could not break Camden down.
is this when camden puts themselves back on the national map?!? one could only dream
With two of their best offensive players (Thomas and Plaza) out for an extended period, the Falcons continue to struggle offensively (what's the last time that was true?) and are tied 1-1 with Alvernia after regulation. Messiah went ahead early when Jacob Bender scored, but Alvernia got a PK well into the second half. The video quality is so poor that I cannot even defend an opinion on the PK, either way, but the official is letting almost everything go, to the further harm of the Falcon offense. Guys are being shoved or run over with no call, so I wonder what he saw in the box that was any different.
Alvernia is very well organized on the defensive end, and without Thomas on the right wing there isn't much happening on that side of the field. Alejos is relatively ineffective tonight, mainly b/c he's so small and the fouls aren't being called.
OT coming. If Alvernia gets a result, it's not good for the Falcons.
Bender just hit another rocket, from way out, and somehow the keeper got a hand on it and knocked it off the post. That was close.
Second OT coming. Falcons had two really good opportunities and on another night one of them gets by the keeper. That kind of game.
Falcons win, 2-1, in second OT. A brilliant counterattack made possible by two strategic moves. First, Nick West went from left wing to right wing. He has excellent speed, and he ran down the long pass, took it to the endline and made a great pass into the box, where Shay Quintin put it in for his first collegiate goal. It looked like McCarty pulled him off the left outside back (where he finally started again after an injury) and into the MF. Anyway, in OT the right side was back in play for the Falcons, and they took advantage of the defenders on that side on the final play.
Great win. I commend Alvernia for aggressive, intelligent play, and wish them well--and a few wins--the rest of the way. Had they won tonight, they would have earned it, even though for the most part the Falcons had the edge. Falcons totally dominated the first OT, but Alvernia was dominating the second until that counterattack.
Quote from: Falconer on October 05, 2016, 08:57:31 PM
With two of their best offensive players (Thomas and Plaza) out for an extended period, the Falcons continue to struggle offensively (what's the last time that was true?) and are tied 1-1 with Alvernia after regulation. Messiah went ahead early when Jacob Bender scored, but Alvernia got a PK well into the second half. The video quality is so poor that I cannot even defend an opinion on the PK, either way, but the official is letting almost everything go, to the further harm of the Falcon offense. Guys are being shoved or run over with no call, so I wonder what he saw in the box that was any different.
Alvernia is very well organized on the defensive end, and without Thomas on the right wing there isn't much happening on that side of the field. Alejos is relatively ineffective tonight, mainly b/c he's so small and the fouls aren't being called.
OT coming. If Alvernia gets a result, it's not good for the Falcons.
The PK was good call. My video feed was actually very good. A failed clear just outside top of box deflected off Alvernia player and the big forward on Alvernia was in one on one with goalie about 10 yards out. Shay was a yard behind him and took a chance at the ball and fouled him. I'm pretty sure it would have been a goal had he not fouled him. Thankfully Shay was able to score the game winner in 2OT when they moved him out on the left wing. Great pass from Nick! Dodged a bullet in this one. I saw who I think was Colby in a boot so that's not good. Hopefully he will be back before playoffs.
Some scores from around the region last night...
F&M 3-0 over Stevens
Camden 1-0 over Fords
Messiah escapes 2-1 over Alvernia in 2OT
Etown blanks Moravian 3-0
King's struggles continue as they lose 2-1 to Centenary
Hood blanks Stevenson 4-0
Hopkins downs Neumann 2-0
Lycoming cruises 5-1 over Albright
Cairn loses 7-0 to Cabrini
Misericordia road struggles continue as they lose 3-0 to Dickinson
Drew upsets Scranton 2-1 after trailing early
Catholic loses 2-0 to Goucher
Susquehanna beats Juniata 3-0
Ursinus downs Wilkes 2-0
Montclair stays alive with a 3-2 win over Manhattanville
Leb Val crushes Arcadia 4-0
FDU gets blanked vs Newark 3-0
Swat gets shut out 2-0 vs Kean
An interesting trend from last nights games was that there were 0 ties and the road teams combined for a 12-6-0 record.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 06, 2016, 08:10:34 AM
Some scores from around the region last night...
F&M 3-0 over Stevens
Camden 1-0 over Fords
Messiah escapes 2-1 over Alvernia in 2OT
Etown blanks Moravian 3-0
King's struggles continue as they lose 2-1 to Centenary
Hood blanks Stevenson 4-0
Hopkins downs Neumann 2-0
Lycoming cruises 5-1 over Albright
Cairn loses 7-0 to Cabrini
Misericordia road struggles continue as they lose 3-0 to Dickinson
Drew upsets Scranton 2-1 after trailing early
Catholic loses 2-0 to Goucher
Susquehanna beats Juniata 3-0
Ursinus downs Wilkes 2-0
Montclair stays alive with a 3-2 win over Manhattanville
Leb Val crushes Arcadia 4-0
FDU gets blanked vs Newark 3-0
Swat gets shut out 2-0 vs Kean
An interesting trend from last nights games was that there were 0 ties and the road teams combined for a 12-6-0 record.
Whats going on with Hood? Could they be a contender for MAC championship? 2-0 in conf and scoring lots of goals
Dickinson is slowly moving up the table in conference, have games vs Swat and Gettysburg to make a move for a playoff spot
NJAC lead Centennial 4-1 in 2016:
Rowan 2 (1st NJAC), F&M 1 (2nd Centennial)
TCNJ 5 (7th NJAC), Dickinson 1 (7th Centennial)
Kean 2 (4th NJAC), Swat 0 (6th Centennial)
Rutgers-Camden 1 (3rd NJAC), Haverford 0 (1st Centennial)
Haverford 1 (1st Centennial), Stockton 0 (9th NJAC)
Rutgers-Camden vs Swat
TCNJ at Gettysburg
Quote from: rudy on October 06, 2016, 11:00:29 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 06, 2016, 08:10:34 AM
Some scores from around the region last night...
F&M 3-0 over Stevens
Camden 1-0 over Fords
Messiah escapes 2-1 over Alvernia in 2OT
Etown blanks Moravian 3-0
King's struggles continue as they lose 2-1 to Centenary
Hood blanks Stevenson 4-0
Hopkins downs Neumann 2-0
Lycoming cruises 5-1 over Albright
Cairn loses 7-0 to Cabrini
Misericordia road struggles continue as they lose 3-0 to Dickinson
Drew upsets Scranton 2-1 after trailing early
Catholic loses 2-0 to Goucher
Susquehanna beats Juniata 3-0
Ursinus downs Wilkes 2-0
Montclair stays alive with a 3-2 win over Manhattanville
Leb Val crushes Arcadia 4-0
FDU gets blanked vs Newark 3-0
Swat gets shut out 2-0 vs Kean
An interesting trend from last nights games was that there were 0 ties and the road teams combined for a 12-6-0 record.
Whats going on with Hood? Could they be a contender for MAC championship? 2-0 in conf and scoring lots of goals
I saw Hood earlier this year and was really impressed with their front 6, they can score in bunches. I think their next two games against Arcadia and LVC will give us a pretty good indication of whether or not they can be a contender. The offensive firepower appears to be there.
By the looks of their schedule they will have a weak SOS. The only solid teams they face are Rowan, Lycoming, and Messiah. The loss to Goucher will hurt and teams like Gallaudet, Moravian, St. Vincent, Rosemont, Immaculata, and Shenandoah will destroy the SOS. Last year Hood had an SOS of .476 and I would imagine it will be just slightly higher this season than last. If they are lucky they will hit the .500 mark.
As for being a contender I think the conference is more wide open than it has ever been before, but with that being said I would still bet my money on Messiah or Lycoming winning it all.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 03, 2016, 11:44:45 AM
Shooter's Take
1. Messiah
2. Fords
3. F&M
4. Etown
5. Scranton
6. Eastern
7. LVC
8. Misericordia
9. Hopkins
10. Lycoming
HM: Manhattanville, Hood, Drew, Arcadia, Gettysburg
Quoting my rankings from earlier in the week and already after 1 game last night there is some shuffling going on heading into the weekend. LastGuy, I would be interested in the SOS of some of these teams if you ever have the time or at least as we start to get closer to NCAA regional releases. You are great at calculating and clarifying those numbers and it's greatly appreciated :)
My new rankings as of 10/6 would be this...1. Messiah (8-0-3)
2. F&M (8-1-3)
3. Fords (7-2-2)
4. Etown (7-2-1)
5. Lycoming (6-3-3)
6. Scranton (7-3-0)
7. Hopkins (8-2-2)
8. Eastern (8-2-1)
9. Leb Val (8-2-0)
10. Manhatt (8-4-0)
RV: Misericordia (6-4-1), Gettysburg (5-3-1), Drew (6-2-2)
Weekend Games#13 Messiah @ #5 W&L
#10 F&M @ McDaniel
#12 Fords @ Dickinson
#22 Etown @ Catholic
Swat @ Gettysburg
Hopkins @ Ursinus
Alvernia @ Lyco
Scranton @ Susquehanna
Drew@ Juniata
Widener @ Leb Val
Del Val @ Eastern
Miseri @ Manhatt
Hood @ Arcadia
Weekend PredictionsMessiah ties W&L 1-1
F&M wins 3-1 easily over McDaniel
Fords draw Dickinson 2-2
Etown draws Catholic 1-1
Gettysburg upends Swat 2-1
Ursinus shocks JHU 1-0
Lyco survives Alvernia 2-1 OT
Scranton woes continue drawing 1-1
Drew handles Juniata 4-1
Leb Val keeps rolling 2-0
Eastern wins big 6-1
Manhatt wins at home 2-1 in OT
Hood draws Arcadia 2-2
MAF Weekend Pick's
Messiah wins 2-1
F&M wins 1-0
Fords win 2-0
Etown wins 4-1
Swat and Getty tie 2-2
JHU wins 3-2
Lyco wins 3-0
Scranton wins 1-0 in OT
Drew wins 2-0
Leb Val wins 1-0
Eastern wins 3-0
Misericordia ties Manhattanville 2-2
Arcadia wins 2-1 in 2OT
I'm sorry but I think Haverford is in a bit of trouble here even at 4-0-0 in the conference after the 1-0 loss to RUC. I do not see many legit wins on their schedule. I think their conference is DOWN this year and maybe the Hopkins win will help in November but they cannot afford to have to many more blemishes to get a Pool C.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 06, 2016, 08:37:44 PM
MAF Weekend Pick's
Messiah wins 2-1
F&M wins 1-0
Fords win 2-0
Etown wins 4-1
Swat and Getty tie 2-2
JHU wins 3-2
Lyco wins 3-0
Scranton wins 1-0 in OT
Drew wins 2-0
Leb Val wins 1-0
Eastern wins 3-0
Misericordia ties Manhattanville 2-2
Arcadia wins 2-1 in 2OT
Keeping an eye on hood the next couple games. If they keep putting up multiple goal games and wins they may be a conf playoff team. Let's see what they do with Arcadia
http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/university-of-scranton-plans-14-million-athletics-campus-for-south-side-1.2099324
Scranton Soccer program to get a new stadium/field in time for next year. Their current field is not NCAA regulation size; thus unable to host NCAA tourney games ,etc. Thought you might be interested in viewing the animation in the link.
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 06, 2016, 11:49:32 PM
I'm sorry but I think Haverford is in a bit of trouble here even at 4-0-0 in the conference after the 1-0 loss to RUC. I do not see many legit wins on their schedule. I think their conference is DOWN this year and maybe the Hopkins win will help in November but they cannot afford to have to many more blemishes to get a Pool C.
What is the SOS for the Fords? The SOS will be lower than last season due to conference teams struggling a bit more than usual like Dickinson for example, but with that being said they have a quality non-conference schedule. Brandeis and Stevens records may not be as strong as anticipated, but their opponents SOS portion will definitely help and both those teams will be above .500 by seasons end so that shouldn't hurt them too much. Camden is in the same boat with opponents SOS and they will have a better record than both Brandeis and Stevens. The games that hurt the Fords are Alvernia, Western NE, and Stockton. More specifically Alvernia's record because their opponents SOS is through the roof at the moment.
Mr. Right, do you see anyone in the region passing Haverford if they fail to win the AQ and or drop a game or two on the remiaining schedule?
Both Etown and Scranton's SOS won't be nearly as good and they will have similar records and RvR. I would imagine seeding would come down to SOS if you compare those 3 teams and the Fords would have it in my book. The other teams that could jump them would be Messiah/Lycoming. I think that would be a better case to make than Etown/Scranton. Messiah most likely will have the record advantage but not the SOS or RvR. Lycoming will have a similar record or slightly worst than the Fords, similar RvR and a higher SOS. It would be tight in both instances.
Quote from: rudy on October 07, 2016, 08:04:04 AM
Keeping an eye on hood the next couple games. If they keep putting up multiple goal games and wins they may be a conf playoff team. Let's see what they do with Arcadia
Some very early thoughts...
Commonwealth Playoff Predictions1. Messiah
2. Lycoming
3. Leb Val
4. Hood
5. Arcadia
------------------------
6. Alvernia
7. Stevenson
8. Widener
9. Albright
Freedom Playoff Predictions1. Manhattanville
2. Eastern
3. Misericordia
4. DeSales
------------------------
5. Kings
6. Wilkes
7. FDU
8. Del Val
Landmark Playoff Predictions1. Etown
2. Scranton
3. Drew
4. Susquehanna
--------------------------
5. Goucher
6. Catholic
7. Juniata
8. Moravian
Centennial Playoff Predictions1. Haverford
2. F&M
3. Swat
4. Hopkins
5. Dickinson
-----------------------
6. Gettysburg
7. Washington
8. Muhlenberg
9. McDaniel
10. Ursinus
Messiah up 2-0 on W&L at half. Field looks beat up from early rain I guess. Messiah better possession. W&L had at least one dangerous chance. A slip from a defender on the sloppy field could easily result in a goal. POssible one of Messiah's goal off corner kick was from wet ball...keeper lost it trying to catch high ball and easy put in.
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
Given how tough Alvernia played Messiah, I was not shocked (though I was a bit surprised) by this result. Alvernia IMO is much better than their dismal W/L record. Anyway, to get a sense of the game I looked at the box score, and Lycoming clearly dominated: Shots 23(9) to 5(5), corners 8 to 1. Alvernia scored on a set piece in the first half and their keeper apparently played very well, though obviously you can't tell how difficult any of his 9 saves were. Tough loss for the Warriors.
However, another statistic jumped out at me: 3 cards for each team, including a second yellow on one of the Warriors 63 minutes in. I wonder what that was about. I remember some here talking about a high number of cards in a couple other Lycoming games, so I took a look at the team statistics. According to the mobile version, Lycoming already has 24 yellows and 2 reds, including 4 team yellows, while their opponents have 19 yellows. Both numbers seem unusually high, so I looked up the numbers for all the other teams in the MAC Commonwealth. No other team is anywhere close. I won't do a team-by-team comparison, but I have to wonder what this is about. Having not seen Lycoming play this year, I can't even hazard a guess, except the obvious two possibilities: perhaps they are just overly physical, sometimes unwisely so, or perhaps they complain a lot (is there any other way to get 4 cards against the bench in just 13 games?).
If anyone watches them regularly, and can sort this out with more authority, I'm all ears.
Quote from: Falconer on October 08, 2016, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
Given how tough Alvernia played Messiah, I was not shocked (though I was a bit surprised) by this result. Alvernia IMO is much better than their dismal W/L record. Anyway, to get a sense of the game I looked at the box score, and Lycoming clearly dominated: Shots 23(9) to 5(5), corners 8 to 1. Alvernia scored on a set piece in the first half and their keeper apparently played very well, though obviously you can't tell how difficult any of his 9 saves were. Tough loss for the Warriors.
However, another statistic jumped out at me: 3 cards for each team, including a second yellow on one of the Warriors 63 minutes in. I wonder what that was about. I remember some here talking about a high number of cards in a couple other Lycoming games, so I took a look at the team statistics. According to the mobile version, Lycoming already has 24 yellows and 2 reds, including 4 team yellows, while their opponents have 19 yellows. Both numbers seem unusually high, so I looked up the numbers for all the other teams in the MAC Commonwealth. No other team is anywhere close. I won't do a team-by-team comparison, but I have to wonder what this is about. Having not seen Lycoming play this year, I can't even hazard a guess, except the obvious two possibilities: perhaps they are just overly physical, sometimes unwisely so, or perhaps they complain a lot (is there any other way to get 4 cards against the bench in just 13 games?).
If anyone watches them regularly, and can sort this out with more authority, I'm all ears.
I believe they played a man down for 20+ minutes in game today. Not sure if straight red or 2 cards on a player. I wonder if they have played other games a man down
Correct, Lyco played down a man for more than 20 minutes. A second yellow, not a straight red, so you have to wonder what he was thinking.
Quote from: Falconer on October 08, 2016, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
Given how tough Alvernia played Messiah, I was not shocked (though I was a bit surprised) by this result. Alvernia IMO is much better than their dismal W/L record. Anyway, to get a sense of the game I looked at the box score, and Lycoming clearly dominated: Shots 23(9) to 5(5), corners 8 to 1. Alvernia scored on a set piece in the first half and their keeper apparently played very well, though obviously you can't tell how difficult any of his 9 saves were. Tough loss for the Warriors.
However, another statistic jumped out at me: 3 cards for each team, including a second yellow on one of the Warriors 63 minutes in. I wonder what that was about. I remember some here talking about a high number of cards in a couple other Lycoming games, so I took a look at the team statistics. According to the mobile version, Lycoming already has 24 yellows and 2 reds, including 4 team yellows, while their opponents have 19 yellows. Both numbers seem unusually high, so I looked up the numbers for all the other teams in the MAC Commonwealth. No other team is anywhere close. I won't do a team-by-team comparison, but I have to wonder what this is about. Having not seen Lycoming play this year, I can't even hazard a guess, except the obvious two possibilities: perhaps they are just overly physical, sometimes unwisely so, or perhaps they complain a lot (is there any other way to get 4 cards against the bench in just 13 games?).
If anyone watches them regularly, and can sort this out with more authority, I'm all ears.
Of the 416 men's D3 soccer team in the country...
Lycoming ranks as follows (data updated by NCAA through 10/6):
6th in the country on
total fouls (180)
15th in the country on
yellow cards (22)
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 10, 2016, 12:48:49 AM
Of the 416 men's D3 soccer team in the country...
Lycoming ranks as follows (data updated by NCAA through 10/6):
6th in the country on total fouls (180)
15th in the country on yellow cards (22)
Will you ever provide clarity on why this statistic is so important to you?
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 06, 2016, 02:35:08 PM
My new rankings as of 10/6 would be this...
1. Messiah (8-0-3)
2. F&M (8-1-3)
3. Fords (7-2-2)
4. Etown (7-2-1)
5. Lycoming (6-3-3)
6. Scranton (7-3-0)
7. Hopkins (8-2-2)
8. Eastern (8-2-1)
9. Leb Val (8-2-0)
10. Manhatt (8-4-0)
RV: Misericordia (6-4-1), Gettysburg (5-3-1), Drew (6-2-2)
My new rankings as of 10/10...1. Messiah (9-0-3)
2. F&M (9-1-3)
3. Fords (8-2-2)
4. Etown (8-2-1)
5. Scranton (8-3-0)
6. Hopkins (9-2-2)
7. Eastern (9-2-1)
8. Leb Val (9-2-0)
9. Drew (6-2-2)
10. Hood (9-2-0)
RV: Misericordia (7-4-1), Gettysburg (6-3-1), Lycoming (6-4-3), Goucher (6-2-5)
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 10, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 10, 2016, 12:48:49 AM
Of the 416 men's D3 soccer team in the country...
Lycoming ranks as follows (data updated by NCAA through 10/6):
6th in the country on total fouls (180)
15th in the country on yellow cards (22)
Will you ever provide clarity on why this statistic is so important to you?
I was responding to Falconer.
Quote from: Falconer on October 08, 2016, 07:32:52 PM
Given how tough Alvernia played Messiah, I was not shocked (though I was a bit surprised) by this result. Alvernia IMO is much better than their dismal W/L record. Anyway, to get a sense of the game I looked at the box score, and Lycoming clearly dominated: Shots 23(9) to 5(5), corners 8 to 1. Alvernia scored on a set piece in the first half and their keeper apparently played very well, though obviously you can't tell how difficult any of his 9 saves were. Tough loss for the Warriors.
However, another statistic jumped out at me: 3 cards for each team, including a second yellow on one of the Warriors 63 minutes in. I wonder what that was about. I remember some here talking about a high number of cards in a couple other Lycoming games, so I took a look at the team statistics. According to the mobile version, Lycoming already has 24 yellows and 2 reds, including 4 team yellows, while their opponents have 19 yellows. Both numbers seem unusually high, so I looked up the numbers for all the other teams in the MAC Commonwealth. No other team is anywhere close. I won't do a team-by-team comparison, but I have to wonder what this is about. Having not seen Lycoming play this year, I can't even hazard a guess, except the obvious two possibilities: perhaps they are just overly physical, sometimes unwisely so, or perhaps they complain a lot (is there any other way to get 4 cards against the bench in just 13 games?).
If anyone watches them regularly, and can sort this out with more authority, I'm all ears.
Combination of the two from what I have seen. I would not consider them a dirty team. They are a big, fast, strong, and sometimes overly physical team. I have not seen them play dirty in the dozen or so times I have watched them dating back to last year.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 10, 2016, 09:15:42 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 10, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 10, 2016, 12:48:49 AM
Of the 416 men's D3 soccer team in the country...
Lycoming ranks as follows (data updated by NCAA through 10/6):
6th in the country on total fouls (180)
15th in the country on yellow cards (22)
Will you ever provide clarity on why this statistic is so important to you?
I was responding to Falconer.
I thought I remembered you bringing this up last season and earlier this season, so I was just curious what your fascination was with yellow card accumulations for a team, specifically Lycoming. Good info though and glad there is a source out there to find that kind of data.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 10, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on October 10, 2016, 12:48:49 AM
Of the 416 men's D3 soccer team in the country...
Lycoming ranks as follows (data updated by NCAA through 10/6):
6th in the country on total fouls (180)
15th in the country on yellow cards (22)
Will you ever provide clarity on why this statistic is so important to you?
Shooter,
I don't think there is any reason here to infer that d3sw places undue importance on that statistic. He was obviously just presenting data in partial response to a question I had asked in some puzzlement. If you look at my original question, in context, you will see that I was surprised (a) that Lyco lost to Alvernia (even though Alvernia is much better than their record), and (b) that a Lyco player got a second yellow with more than 20 minutes yet to play in a game when his team was down by a goal. Surely that's a scenario that invites a question about the circumstances, and I was asking simply whether anyone who actually saw the game can tell us what happened. I was also (c) surprised that 6 cards were given (total to both teams) in that game, which reminded me of some comments on this board earlier this season about high numbers of cards in other games involving Lycoming, so I looked up their team numbers. I then looked at numbers for all other MAC Commonwealth teams, on the (perhaps true, perhaps false?) assumption that to some extent the same officials might be involved in other conference games. I have not taken time to see whether that assumption is true. In other words, I am wondering whether Lyco is a genuine outlier in this regard, and so far the data seem to suggest that.
I have drawn no larger conclusions from this, and I'm simply not qualified to do that. I haven't seen Lyco play a single game; I don't know any of their players or the coach; I am not privy to the gossip around the league (if any). My question is fair and open-minded: what's happening here?
If Lyco were an NJAC team (which they aren't), I would probably not even ask it, given the reputation of tough physical play in that conference. But they aren't an NJAC team. So, what's up? If you can provide some context for that number, I'm all ears. But, don't shoot the messenger. This question is no different from asking why (e.g.) Rowan has turned it around--something else that has already been addressed on this board, by someone who follows them.
I see that Shooter's reply to d3 came in while mine was being posted. Thanks to Shooter for his reply.
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
With the way things are going for the Warriors they will be lucky to get a top 2 seed in the conference heading into playoffs. I can't see them missing playoffs all together, but I also didn't expect them to drop games/points to Misericordia, Arcadia, and Alvernia. A big disappointment so far for this team as they have not been able to handle the pressure and high expectations. I fully believe Messiah will be back in NCAAs one way or another, but the AQ is looking better each day for the Falcons.
Lycoming travels to Messiah on Tuesday night in a highly anticipated match. It's almost a must win for Lycoming, so I wonder how that will affect Messiah's preparation after a huge win at W&L over the weekend. Will Messiah come down off that high and refocus? Can Lycoming go on the road and get a much needed result? Tuesday night is a must watch for everyone.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 10, 2016, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
With the way things are going for the Warriors they will be lucky to get a top 2 seed in the conference heading into playoffs. I can't see them missing playoffs all together, but I also didn't expect them to drop games/points to Misericordia, Arcadia, and Alvernia. A big disappointment so far for this team as they have not been able to handle the pressure and high expectations. I fully believe Messiah will be back in NCAAs one way or another, but the AQ is looking better each day for the Falcons.
Lycoming travels to Messiah on Tuesday night in a highly anticipated match. It's almost a must win for Lycoming, so I wonder how that will affect Messiah's preparation after a huge win at W&L over the weekend. Will Messiah come down off that high and refocus? Can Lycoming go on the road and get a much needed result? Tuesday night is a must watch for everyone.
Looking forward to Tuesday game with Lycoming. Home game for Messiah and hungry to avenge last years 2 losses I'm sure. But Lycoming will bring all they have in this one to try to salvage their season and turn momentum around. They are still a dangerous team. Messiah should pull out the win at home but anything can happen.
Quote from: rudy on October 10, 2016, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 10, 2016, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
With the way things are going for the Warriors they will be lucky to get a top 2 seed in the conference heading into playoffs. I can't see them missing playoffs all together, but I also didn't expect them to drop games/points to Misericordia, Arcadia, and Alvernia. A big disappointment so far for this team as they have not been able to handle the pressure and high expectations. I fully believe Messiah will be back in NCAAs one way or another, but the AQ is looking better each day for the Falcons.
Lycoming travels to Messiah on Tuesday night in a highly anticipated match. It's almost a must win for Lycoming, so I wonder how that will affect Messiah's preparation after a huge win at W&L over the weekend. Will Messiah come down off that high and refocus? Can Lycoming go on the road and get a much needed result? Tuesday night is a must watch for everyone.
Looking forward to Tuesday game with Lycoming. Home game for Messiah and hungry to avenge last years 2 losses I'm sure. But Lycoming will bring all they have in this one to try to salvage their season and turn momentum around. They are still a dangerous team. Messiah should pull out the win at home but anything can happen.
Earlier in the season I would actually have favored Lycoming, even on Messiah's large natural field. But over the past couple weeks Messiah has clearly been playing better than Lyco, despite being without two of their best players who only just returned on Saturday (Thomas and Ruiz Plaza). The Falcons are playing awfully well right now. Obviously I hope they continue to play better every week, but that's up to them, isn't it? As Rudy points out, "anything can happen," and sometimes it does.
In terms of tournament implications, I think this game is actually much more important for Messiah than for Lycoming. At this point, Lycoming must get the AQ, whereas if Messiah fails to get the AQ then a loss to Lycoming at home won't help their chances to get an at-large bid. I'd be shocked if Lyco fails to qualify for the conference tournament--they are far too good a team for that. So, if I'm Lyco, of course I want to beat Messiah twice, but if I can beat the Falcons just once it's the AQ that really matters.
This year is shaping up as a truly competitive one in the MAC Commonwealth. LVC and Hood are both playing very well, so there are four teams with non-trivial chances of grabbing the AQ. Messiah beat LVC 1-0 on the road, so that contest is already in the books, and they play Hood at home later this month. If we ignore Hood's 2-0 loss to Rowan, they have only one blemish so far. Admittedly they have not played another team that jumps out at you, but they know what to expect from the Falcons and they will surely be motivated to get a result.
I note that LVC plays at Hood tomorrow afternoon and at Lyco next Wednesday afternoon. At that point we should have a much clearer idea about how this will shake out, even before Hood plays Lyco at home on Oct 22, three days before they play at Messiah.
Concerning LVC vs Lycoming, one of the LVC seniors, Cam Alexander (who went to HS about 10 miles from my home), scored an ESPN highlight goal vs Lycoming 4 years ago as a freshman: http://www.d3soccer.com/greatgoals/2012/LVC-Cam-Unassisted
He also had a great goal vs Messiah the next year. He's still around b/c he missed a season to injury. And, he's still dangerous, though I think the injury has made him less so.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 10, 2016, 09:01:33 AM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 06, 2016, 02:35:08 PM
My new rankings as of 10/6 would be this...
1. Messiah (8-0-3)
2. F&M (8-1-3)
3. Fords (7-2-2)
4. Etown (7-2-1)
5. Lycoming (6-3-3)
6. Scranton (7-3-0)
7. Hopkins (8-2-2)
8. Eastern (8-2-1)
9. Leb Val (8-2-0)
10. Manhatt (8-4-0)
RV: Misericordia (6-4-1), Gettysburg (5-3-1), Drew (6-2-2)
My new rankings as of 10/10...
1. Messiah (9-0-3)
2. F&M (9-1-3)
3. Fords (8-2-2)
4. Etown (8-2-1)
5. Scranton (8-3-0)
6. Hopkins (9-2-2)
7. Eastern (9-2-1)
8. Leb Val (9-2-0)
9. Drew (6-2-2)
10. Hood (9-2-0)
RV: Misericordia (7-4-1), Gettysburg (6-3-1), Lycoming (6-4-3), Goucher (6-2-5)
I would flip Drew and Hood. Other than that spot on.
Quote from: Falconer on October 10, 2016, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: rudy on October 10, 2016, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 10, 2016, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
With the way things are going for the Warriors they will be lucky to get a top 2 seed in the conference heading into playoffs. I can't see them missing playoffs all together, but I also didn't expect them to drop games/points to Misericordia, Arcadia, and Alvernia. A big disappointment so far for this team as they have not been able to handle the pressure and high expectations. I fully believe Messiah will be back in NCAAs one way or another, but the AQ is looking better each day for the Falcons.
Lycoming travels to Messiah on Tuesday night in a highly anticipated match. It's almost a must win for Lycoming, so I wonder how that will affect Messiah's preparation after a huge win at W&L over the weekend. Will Messiah come down off that high and refocus? Can Lycoming go on the road and get a much needed result? Tuesday night is a must watch for everyone.
Looking forward to Tuesday game with Lycoming. Home game for Messiah and hungry to avenge last years 2 losses I'm sure. But Lycoming will bring all they have in this one to try to salvage their season and turn momentum around. They are still a dangerous team. Messiah should pull out the win at home but anything can happen.
Earlier in the season I would actually have favored Lycoming, even on Messiah's large natural field. But over the past couple weeks Messiah has clearly been playing better than Lyco, despite being without two of their best players who only just returned on Saturday (Thomas and Ruiz Plaza). The Falcons are playing awfully well right now. Obviously I hope they continue to play better every week, but that's up to them, isn't it? As Rudy points out, "anything can happen," and sometimes it does.
In terms of tournament implications, I think this game is actually much more important for Messiah than for Lycoming. At this point, Lycoming must get the AQ, whereas if Messiah fails to get the AQ then a loss to Lycoming at home won't help their chances to get an at-large bid. I'd be shocked if Lyco fails to qualify for the conference tournament--they are far too good a team for that. So, if I'm Lyco, of course I want to beat Messiah twice, but if I can beat the Falcons just once it's the AQ that really matters.
This year is shaping up as a truly competitive one in the MAC Commonwealth. LVC and Hood are both playing very well, so there are four teams with non-trivial chances of grabbing the AQ. Messiah beat LVC 1-0 on the road, so that contest is already in the books, and they play Hood at home later this month. If we ignore Hood's 2-0 loss to Rowan, they have only one blemish so far. Admittedly they have not played another team that jumps out at you, but they know what to expect from the Falcons and they will surely be motivated to get a result.
I note that LVC plays at Hood tomorrow afternoon and at Lyco next Wednesday afternoon. At that point we should have a much clearer idea about how this will shake out, even before Hood plays Lyco at home on Oct 22, three days before they play at Messiah.
Lvc vs Hood and Messiah vs Lycoming tomorrow. Could be preview of MACC conf semi finals?
Mid-Week Action
Tuesday
Lycoming@ #13 Messiah
LVC@Hood
Eastern@Misericordia
Wednesday
Dickinson@Scranton
Susquehanna@Gettysburg
Drew@Swat
October 11, 2016
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 6
Through games of Sunday, October 9, 2016
# School (1st Pl. Votes) Record Pts. Prev.
1 Chicago (19) 12-0-0 991 1
2 Trinity (Texas) (3) 13-0-0 957 2
3 Rowan (1) 11-0-1 930 3
4 Ohio Northern 12-0-2 866 4
5 Amherst 9-1-1 816 8
6 Messiah 9-0-3 767 13
7 Franklin & Marshall 9-1-3 736 10
8 Mass-Boston 11-0-1 671 9
9 Kenyon 9-2-0 639 11
10 Washington & Lee 9-2-0 572 5
11 Calvin 10-2-0 553 6
12 Chris. Newport 11-2-0 545 16
13 Carnegie Mellon 9-1-1 532 17
14 Lynchburg 9-0-2 510 19
15 St. Lawrence 9-2-0 443 7
16 Oneonta State 10-2-1 415 21
17 St. Thomas 10-0-2 318 24
18 Haverford 8-2-2 306 12
19 Capital 10-1-1 303 25
20 Elizabethtown 8-2-1 296 22
21 Middlebury 6-1-2 238 14
22 Rochester 7-1-2 205 20
23 Washington U. 7-1-1 200 15
24 Springfield 11-0-1 174 —
25 Colorado College 9-2-1 139 23
Dropped out: No. 18 Macalester
Receiving Votes: Oberlin 64, Gordon 61, Redlands 57, Tufts 52, Macalester 42, Ohio Wesleyan 38, Cortland State 28, Lebanon Valley 21, Rutgers-Newark 14, Connecticut College 5, Maryville (Tenn.) 5, Kean 3, Dubuque 2
The D3soccer.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of coaches, Sports Information Directors and D3soccer.com staff, and is published weekly.
Quote from: rudy on October 10, 2016, 03:41:40 PM
Quote from: Falconer on October 10, 2016, 11:43:54 AM
Quote from: rudy on October 10, 2016, 10:56:22 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 10, 2016, 09:34:27 AM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 05:05:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on October 08, 2016, 04:55:04 PM
Lyco down 1-0 to Alvernia with 8 to go
Alvernia wins it 1-0
Lyco will have to win the tournament to get a return to NCAA's this year
With the way things are going for the Warriors they will be lucky to get a top 2 seed in the conference heading into playoffs. I can't see them missing playoffs all together, but I also didn't expect them to drop games/points to Misericordia, Arcadia, and Alvernia. A big disappointment so far for this team as they have not been able to handle the pressure and high expectations. I fully believe Messiah will be back in NCAAs one way or another, but the AQ is looking better each day for the Falcons.
Lycoming travels to Messiah on Tuesday night in a highly anticipated match. It's almost a must win for Lycoming, so I wonder how that will affect Messiah's preparation after a huge win at W&L over the weekend. Will Messiah come down off that high and refocus? Can Lycoming go on the road and get a much needed result? Tuesday night is a must watch for everyone.
Looking forward to Tuesday game with Lycoming. Home game for Messiah and hungry to avenge last years 2 losses I'm sure. But Lycoming will bring all they have in this one to try to salvage their season and turn momentum around. They are still a dangerous team. Messiah should pull out the win at home but anything can happen.
Earlier in the season I would actually have favored Lycoming, even on Messiah's large natural field. But over the past couple weeks Messiah has clearly been playing better than Lyco, despite being without two of their best players who only just returned on Saturday (Thomas and Ruiz Plaza). The Falcons are playing awfully well right now. Obviously I hope they continue to play better every week, but that's up to them, isn't it? As Rudy points out, "anything can happen," and sometimes it does.
In terms of tournament implications, I think this game is actually much more important for Messiah than for Lycoming. At this point, Lycoming must get the AQ, whereas if Messiah fails to get the AQ then a loss to Lycoming at home won't help their chances to get an at-large bid. I'd be shocked if Lyco fails to qualify for the conference tournament--they are far too good a team for that. So, if I'm Lyco, of course I want to beat Messiah twice, but if I can beat the Falcons just once it's the AQ that really matters.
This year is shaping up as a truly competitive one in the MAC Commonwealth. LVC and Hood are both playing very well, so there are four teams with non-trivial chances of grabbing the AQ. Messiah beat LVC 1-0 on the road, so that contest is already in the books, and they play Hood at home later this month. If we ignore Hood's 2-0 loss to Rowan, they have only one blemish so far. Admittedly they have not played another team that jumps out at you, but they know what to expect from the Falcons and they will surely be motivated to get a result.
I note that LVC plays at Hood tomorrow afternoon and at Lyco next Wednesday afternoon. At that point we should have a much clearer idea about how this will shake out, even before Hood plays Lyco at home on Oct 22, three days before they play at Messiah.
Lvc vs Hood and Messiah vs Lycoming tomorrow. Could be preview of MACC conf semi finals?
Messiah over Lyco 2-0 (dominated them by more than the score I think)
Hood can't keep up the goal production and loses 1-0 to LVC
I agree with Rudy that the Messiah-Lycoming game wasn't as close as the 2-0 score. The Falcons looked awfully good, and it could have been 4-0 or even 5-0 if not for great saves by the Warrior keeper: I was quite impressed by his play, though his back line didn't look very good on several occasions.
Lycoming has a lot of size and decent speed, but overall the Falcons are faster. The play was very physical, often chippy as the official let a lot of things go. On three occasions he stopped the clock to talk to Warriors, apparently for objecting to his calls, but he did not pull his card on any of those occasions. Each team received one yellow, properly given, for fouls. A lot of fouls were called, but IMO at least as many more should have been called. Quite a few plays were pretty to watch, despite the constant fouling.
Lyco put together a couple of nice possessions, but mostly they were dangerous on set plays. Messiah was dangerous often, usually in the run of play. Their one-touch passing game was on display even in the face of intense pressure. I'd have to say that at this point they are playing the best soccer they've played since 2014, tournament level soccer that can take them a long way if they finish some of the looks it's generating. Defensively there were very few lapses and many excellent individual and team defensive plays.
The second goal, by Samuel Ruiz Plaza, was simply brilliant: a rocket from maybe 25 yards out that curled to the left and into the upper 90. More than any other member of the team, he seems capable of that type of shot. He had another long rocket last week vs W&L and a few last season also. A very dangerous player to leave open. His absence (owing to injury) for two stretches this fall has definitely been reflected in the low scores of several recent games prior to W&L, when he was back in the lineup again.
Ruiz Plaza's goal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhcGh8FZ_HY
A beautiful goal by Ruiz Plaza and a controlling performance by Messiah over rival Lycoming. The overall stats are probably a truer reflection of the game than the actual score.
Goals:
MC - 2
LC - 0
Shots
MC - 20
LC - 5
Corners:
MC - 12
LC - 3
Fouls:
MC - 7
LC - 18
Looking at the remaining games on Lyco 's schedule, do you think it is possible that they don't finish in the top 4 and don't make the this year's conference tourney?
Quote from: TribeFan on October 12, 2016, 09:48:06 AM
Looking at the remaining games on Lyco 's schedule, do you think it is possible that they don't finish in the top 4 and don't make the this year's conference tourney?
Top 5 make playoffs with a 4v5 play in game for the Commonwealth. Is it possible that they drop some more games this season...for sure, but with that being said I believe they will make playoffs. From their who knows what happens.
I watched a majority of the game last night online. Messiah's commentary and video quality has to be one of the best in the country. Always a joy to watch solely for the quality. As for the game, Messiah was on another level last night. They were quick and precise with their passes and movements. The one thing they still lack (only somewhat) is finishing. They don't have a goal scorer that can put the team on their back when needed. I will be interested to watch how that progresses over the remainder of the season. From the beginning of the season to now they have improved greatly. The Falcon faithful should be excited for NCAAs in November!
Lycoming fought hard but they were no match for Messiah. They have a lot of work to do to become competitive again come conference playoffs, assuming they will make it. They have their work cut out for them though with Hood and LVC still remaining on the schedule. From watching Lycoming multiple times this season, it seems as they are digressing rather than progressing. We will see if that gets turned around or if they will stay in a funk.
I do not anticipate the Warriors beating the Falcons this year.
Quote from: Falconer on October 11, 2016, 10:47:54 PM
Lycoming has a lot of size and decent speed, but overall the Falcons are faster. The play was very physical, often chippy as the official let a lot of things go. On three occasions he stopped the clock to talk to Warriors, apparently for objecting to his calls, but he did not pull his card on any of those occasions. Each team received one yellow, properly given, for fouls. A lot of fouls were called, but IMO at least as many more should have been called. Quite a few plays were pretty to watch, despite the constant fouling.
Falconer I have to disagree with this statement. I think the game was normal and what you would expect for a college soccer game. I don't think it was overly physical or dirty by any means. I can only recall one occasion of it getting chippy when the Messiah player (Robbins I believe) took down the Lycoming player from behind and got a yellow card for it. That was the only malicious challenge in the game. The fouls called on Lycoming were due to Messiah's speed causing mistimed tackles. This isn't because they were dirty or trying to foul, but more simply they were to slow to anticipate a tackle. This is a common theme for many teams when facing Messiah. If anything I thought the official missed a couple fouls on Messiah that should have went for Lycoming but it wouldn't have made a difference in the result. I am not sure how many college soccer games you watch, but if you want to watch a physical game check out Rowan vs Camden tonight.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 12, 2016, 11:21:42 AM
Quote from: Falconer on October 11, 2016, 10:47:54 PM
Lycoming has a lot of size and decent speed, but overall the Falcons are faster. The play was very physical, often chippy as the official let a lot of things go. On three occasions he stopped the clock to talk to Warriors, apparently for objecting to his calls, but he did not pull his card on any of those occasions. Each team received one yellow, properly given, for fouls. A lot of fouls were called, but IMO at least as many more should have been called. Quite a few plays were pretty to watch, despite the constant fouling.
Falconer I have to disagree with this statement. I think the game was normal and what you would expect for a college soccer game. I don't think it was overly physical or dirty by any means. I can only recall one occasion of it getting chippy when the Messiah player (Robbins I believe) took down the Lycoming player from behind and got a yellow card for it. That was the only malicious challenge in the game. The fouls called on Lycoming were due to Messiah's speed causing mistimed tackles. This isn't because they were dirty or trying to foul, but more simply they were to slow to anticipate a tackle. This is a common theme for many teams when facing Messiah. If anything I thought the official missed a couple fouls on Messiah that should have went for Lycoming but it wouldn't have made a difference in the result. I am not sure how many college soccer games you watch, but if you want to watch a physical game check out Rowan vs Camden tonight.
I respect your opinion, MAF, and I realize that it's probably based on a larger base of soccer experience than I can bring. If you are like many others here, then you played collegiate soccer yourself; I never did. You've probably also seen more games than I have, too, and involving a larger number of teams. I also agree with you that some fouls by Falcons were not called, and that the tackle resulting in a yellow for a Falcon was chippy--more so indeed than the yellow given to a Lycoming player. If you reread my account of the game, I did not say that all the fouls were committed by Lycoming. I did say that the Warriors appeared to have a problem with complaining about calls, b/c the evidence in front of me amply supported that conclusion. You said yourself the other day that this can be a problem with this particular team this year.
I have seen only a small number of games live (as vs on TV or streamed) that did not involve Messiah, and only a few of those (one of which was a national title game) were high level games. However I've seen hundreds of games involving the Falcons, so my basis for comparison is not entirely negligible: it's simply a comparison with other games involving Messiah through the years, quite a limited basis but at least a relevant one. The game with Lycoming was probably the highest this year, in terms of the sum total of fouling (both called an uncalled), but certainly not as high as some others in previous years. If I were to identify some other candidates in recent years, LVC and some NJAC teams would certainly be on that list, though LVC this year is much more talented and much less chippy. (A few years ago, a Falcon team suffered two or three major injuries in a single game in New Jersey, all the result of cheap shots. I saw nothing like that last night, I'm glad to say. That's a big reason, I suspect, why Messiah doesn't usually schedule games in New Jersey: why put up with that, if you don't have to?) So far this year, I'd say that Lycoming is the leader in that category.
Let me add that most streaming (even the Messiah streaming) is not good enough to show all of the little stuff, like grabbing a shirt or an arm for just a moment as a player runs past, and there was a great deal more of that last night than I usually witness, almost all of it uncalled. Yes, the Falcons did a bit of that themselves, but most of it came from the Warriors, perhaps partly b/c the Falcons had the majority of possession. That type of foul doesn't result from missing tackles--which is (as you say) a normal occurrence in games that involve fast teams.
So, that's the basis for my opinion, MAF. If we still disagree, I readily grant the possibility that your basis of comparison is larger than mine. I wish you well.
PS for MAF:
Earlier this afternoon I ran into three friends who also were at the game last night, two of whom played soccer in college. I didn't sit with them last night, but the first thing they all said when I mentioned being there was how physical that game was. So, I'm not the only one who thought so. I suppose that if you watch a lot of Jersey games, as perhaps you do, you'd see it differently. They didn't.
What we all saw is consistent with the high foul count and card count for Lyco this year. That's just how they are playing everyone, apparently. If they play Messiah again in a few weeks, maybe they will approach it differently. If so, that will be fun to watch--they have some very good players (not just the keeper), and I'd like to see just how good they can be when they play straight up.
Here are the foul counts by year for each time they have played each other...
2016:
Messiah 7
Lyco 18
Messiah won 2-0
2015:
Lyco 22
Messiah 12
Lyco won 2-0
Lyco 24
Messiah 15
Lyco won 1-0 (MACC final)
My point for providing these numbers is that last night's game was relatively low in fouls compared to last year's clashes between the two heavyweights. There was 25 total in last nights game...Lycoming had 24 and 22 alone in two games last season. So to say that last night's game was overly physical is a stretch.
It was a good game for Messiah and being at home definitely helped them moved the ball and space out. They will be tough to beat for anyone this season. Lycoming looked a little slow and gassed but they have some size and athleticism which should help in their other conference games.
I still anticipate a Lyco @ Messiah final come November, but there are lots of games to be played until then.
NSCAA regional poll question. Not a big deal but I'm curious about F&M being ranked #1 over Messiah in regional rankings. Up to this past week you could argue F&M had more quality wins but after Messiah beat W&L 4-0 and easily handled Lycoming...is there an argument that Messiah could or should be ranked #1? Common opponents favors Messiah a bit and Messiah has no losses. Messiah ties have been against teams with better records than the ties for F&M. I'm assuming until F&M has another blemish they will remain ahead of Messiah but curious if the polls would ever move a team up even if team ahead of them does not add a new blemish
Quote from: rudy on October 12, 2016, 03:17:03 PM
NSCAA regional poll question. Not a big deal but I'm curious about F&M being ranked #1 over Messiah in regional rankings. Up to this past week you could argue F&M had more quality wins but after Messiah beat W&L 4-0 and easily handled Lycoming...is there an argument that Messiah could or should be ranked #1? Common opponents favors Messiah a bit and Messiah has no losses. Messiah ties have been against teams with better records than the ties for F&M. I'm assuming until F&M has another blemish they will remain ahead of Messiah but curious if the polls would ever move a team up even if team ahead of them does not add a new blemish
My guess would be that Messiah will move ahead of them here shortly. Yes they could jump them even if both don't lose going into the next poll.
Falconer---good conversation and insight. If you have time watch the Rowan game tonight or at least a portion of it try and do so just for comparison sakes. Physicality is all in the eye of the beholder as well. I am use to watching Lycoming a handful of times a season so it doesn't phase me as much as others with their high foul totals. As for Messiah it surprises me when they do have a high foul total because that's not the norm for them. All depends on the team. I thought comparing last night to other Lycoming games I have seen it was a relatively quiet night in terms of fouls and aggressive play. For Messiah I thought they were about as physical as you would expect them to be. This game didn't scream fouls galore. It was a normal game in my eyes but for some it might have been more than they are use to. Regardless it was a solid game to watch as a neutral fan and Messiah has something good going for them right now. They were a joy to watch last night. By far the best I have seen them play this season.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 10, 2016, 03:44:51 PM
Mid-Week Action
Tuesday
Lycoming@ #13 Messiah
LVC@Hood
Eastern@Misericordia
Wednesday
Dickinson@Scranton
Susquehanna@Gettysburg
Drew@Swat
Winners in bold. Scranton with a needed win over Dickinson.
You were absolutely right, MAF, with your prediction that Rowan v R-Camden would be physical. Thank you for the tip. I didn't watch it, but here's what it says on Rowan's home page: "It was a physical battle throughout, as the squads combined for 36 fouls and four yellow cards." That's a lot--and matches the 18 fouls that were called on Lycoming. (The photo from the Lyco game currently on the Falcon home page is a not-so-subtle illustration of that number, though I doubt that one was called. See http://www.gomessiah.com/news/2016/10/11/mens-soccer-messiah-earns-shutout-in-conference-tilt-over-lycoming.aspx?path=msoc )
This does seem typical for the NJAC, and I must say I have a problem with that kind of play as a regular phenomenon. Games like that can get out of control, chippy stuff turns into cheap shots, and men can be badly hurt: I'm sure we've both seen that happen, and it can be largely prevented. If I were officiating, I'd use my cards generously in such games; if I could instill in players and coaches a realistic threat of having to miss games for red cards or accumulated yellows, it might start to get the message across. Recall the old adage that rubgy is a hooligan's game for gentlemen, and soccer is a gentlemen's game for hooligans?
I wonder whether the very physical play in New Jersey actually hurts those teams, come tournament time, especially after the first week as the quality of officiating goes up (or so it seems from the games I've watched). I remember sitting in the stands at Rowan in 2000, when the Falcons won their first title. Rowan was very physical, with lots of grabbing and other "incidental" but strategically deliberate fouling. The officials actually called those fouls, right from the get go, even pulling out cards a couple of times for intentional fouling, and there were two interesting results. First, Rowan had to back off, allowing the Falcons to play proper soccer. Second, the Rowan fans were yelling things at the officials, such as "whaddya think this is, a girls' game?" Dave Brandt was asked about this in the post-game interviews, and in response to a question about it, he rightly pointed out that those were indeed fouls that were being called. Physical play may be part of the game, but then so are cards. It's unfair when rules are not being enforced, such as when officials just "let them play," since it amounts to nothing less than favoring one team (and their style) over another. If they want to "let them play," then let them have fouls be called on them also.
Well, that's more than my two cents, and I won't belabor it further. I'm really glad that the Falcons and teams like them don't have to play in New Jersey very often.
When Rowan and Lyco faced each other in the opening weekend Rowan had 18 fouls and Lyco had 13 combining for 31 fouls and 3 yellow cards for Lyco. Now if you remember my statements from this game some time ago and the statements of others, the officiating was as poor as I have seen in this game. Missed PK's and then calling PK's when they clearly were not PK's for both sides. It was awful to watch from a neutral perspective. The foul total should have surpassed 20 for each team in been in the high 40s but the ref was clueless. I do agree that some teams enjoy this kind of play as it disrupts the rhythm of the game.
Also looking back it makes me curious about Lycoming's recent struggles. They battled Rowan and F&M tougher than almost anyone has all year. They have the talent to do so as we all know and have seen last year and early on this year, but to turn around and drop games to some of the teams they are losing/tying has to be disheartening for them. Shooter mentioned that he/she believes we will see a Lyco vs Messiah final, but if Lycoming comes out of the weekend with anything but a win I do not think they will even make the postseason.
Well, yeah, IF Lycoming can't beat Widener, then it will go down to the wire for them making the playoffs with their final game against Stevenson likely being decisive. For Lyco to miss out, two of Stevenson, Arcadia, Alvernia, and Widener would have to finish higher then them. Still hard to see that happening, but a loss or even a tie to Widener would change things.
Stevenson's two conference wins came against basement dwellers Widener and Albright, and they only went 1-4-2 out of conference, so I don't see them staying in the top four. Widener lost to Stevenson at home. And who knows what you're going to get with Alvernia and Arcadia--too inconsistent to predict how they will finish down the stretch.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 13, 2016, 11:47:09 AM
When Rowan and Lyco faced each other in the opening weekend Rowan had 18 fouls and Lyco had 13 combining for 31 fouls and 3 yellow cards for Lyco. Now if you remember my statements from this game some time ago and the statements of others, the officiating was as poor as I have seen in this game. Missed PK's and then calling PK's when they clearly were not PK's for both sides. It was awful to watch from a neutral perspective. The foul total should have surpassed 20 for each team in been in the high 40s but the ref was clueless. I do agree that some teams enjoy this kind of play as it disrupts the rhythm of the game.
Also looking back it makes me curious about Lycoming's recent struggles. They battled Rowan and F&M tougher than almost anyone has all year. They have the talent to do so as we all know and have seen last year and early on this year, but to turn around and drop games to some of the teams they are losing/tying has to be disheartening for them. Shooter mentioned that he/she believes we will see a Lyco vs Messiah final, but if Lycoming comes out of the weekend with anything but a win I do not think they will even make the postseason.
Again, MAF, this is spot on. After the first month I expected the Messiah-Lycoming game to be a barn burner between (at least roughly) equally talented teams, both playing well. It wasn't. I have no idea what has gone down with the Warriors recently, but they don't appear to be the same team now that they were early in the season. Messiah is the same team as earlier, simply more experienced now. They typically start a bit slow, as the players learn to play together on both ends, and it always takes a while for the new players (and their coach) to figure out just how they fit in best. Until such things are sorted out, they don't really play at a tournament level. Their failure to reach tournament level last year was a function of three factors, IMO: (a) less soccer talent than in previous seasons, after losing so much; (b) a very young starting team (with five freshman at the end of the season); and (c) this year's freshmen (very talented) weren't here yet. They understood what they needed to do, but lacked the horses to do it as well as in previous years. This year the horses are back, except (as you properly pointed out) they lack a real striker.
As for Lyco, who knows? They lost zero seniors from last year's excellent team, which was better than Messiah's team and proved it. No such evidence this year for some reason.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 12, 2016, 11:21:42 AM
Quote from: Falconer on October 11, 2016, 10:47:54 PM
Lycoming has a lot of size and decent speed, but overall the Falcons are faster. The play was very physical, often chippy as the official let a lot of things go. On three occasions he stopped the clock to talk to Warriors, apparently for objecting to his calls, but he did not pull his card on any of those occasions. Each team received one yellow, properly given, for fouls. A lot of fouls were called, but IMO at least as many more should have been called. Quite a few plays were pretty to watch, despite the constant fouling.
Falconer I have to disagree with this statement. I think the game was normal and what you would expect for a college soccer game. I don't think it was overly physical or dirty by any means. I can only recall one occasion of it getting chippy when the Messiah player (Robbins I believe) took down the Lycoming player from behind and got a yellow card for it. That was the only malicious challenge in the game. The fouls called on Lycoming were due to Messiah's speed causing mistimed tackles. This isn't because they were dirty or trying to foul, but more simply they were to slow to anticipate a tackle. This is a common theme for many teams when facing Messiah. If anything I thought the official missed a couple fouls on Messiah that should have went for Lycoming but it wouldn't have made a difference in the result. I am not sure how many college soccer games you watch, but if you want to watch a physical game check out Rowan vs Camden tonight.
2016 Season Fouls in MAC Conference:
# of fouls
1 Lycoming 207
2 Alvernia 157
3 King's 151
4 Arcadia 146
5 Stevenson 156
6 Lebanon Valley 133
7 Manhattanville 153
8 Eastern 141
9 Albright 135
10 Misericordia 134
11 Hood 122
12 DeSales 138
13 Delaware Valley 120
14 Messiah 120
15 FDU - Florham 113
16 Widener 110
17 Wilkes 105
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on August 22, 2016, 09:09:51 AM
http://www.cuacardinals.com/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20160804pac110
Checking out teams throughout the Mid-Atlantic and felt obligated to share after the last post. Lots of teams doing a foreign tour this year.
absolutely.
Wow. Some exciting Centennial Conference action.
Haverford led Muhlenburg 3-0 at half, then score twice in first 87 seconds of the 2nd half for the 5-0 lead, but ended up having to defend a 5-4 one-goal lead for the final 8 minutes after conceding four goals to the Mules.
F&M scores with 11 ticks left on the clock to edge JHU 1-0
Dickinson and Gettysburg tie 2-2 with all four goals coming in the 2nd half, Dickinson scoring the equalizer with 90 seconds left in regulation.
Messiah bests Albright 2-0 with a 33-0 shots stat line. I've never seen such a grossly lopsided 2-0 game. Feel for the goalie in this game he never got a rest! Alvernia pulls another upset (maybe not an upset) over Hood. Never know what they will do from game to game. Hood started strong in conference and now has 2 losses.
Wednesday's NCAA Regional Ranking Predictions
1. Messiah (11-0-3)
2. F&M (10-1-3)
3. Fords (9-2-2)
4. Etown (10-2-1)
5. Scranton (10-3-0)
6. Eastern (10-3-1)
7. Leb Val (10-2-0)
8. Hopkins (9-3-2)
9. Gettys (7-3-2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next in line: Misericordia (8-5-1), Lycoming (7-5-3), Drew (8-3-2)
Messiah is the unanimous #1 and will most likely stay their until the end.
F&M slides into #2 for now but wouldn't be surprised if they swap with the Fords over the next few weeks.
Fords have stayed the course without Corkey. Can they sustain this momentum when it really counts?
Etown will be top 4 for now, but the SOS and RvR will hurt the Bluejays once again. Watch for them to slowly slide in the ranks.
Scranton can catch Etown if they finish strong. Might be a similar scenario to last season for Scranton and Etown. Only 1 will advance.
Eastern is here solely off of record. They will drop when the RvR comes into play next week.
Leb Val has a HUGE game @Lycoming on Wednesday. If they have any shot of an at-large that is a must win game. Tie or loss won't cut it.
Hopkins and Gettysburg both have their work cut out for them to climb high enough for an at-large. RvR will be crucial for both.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Misericordia with some good results but a few too many losses early on keeps them out of the picture for right now.
Lycoming with recent struggles but the SOS and RvR has to factor in and keep them close behind. Still on the outside looking in.
Drew with quality results but a tough loss in conference keeps them just outside the cut off line.
October 18, 2016
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 7
Through games of Sunday, October 16, 2016
# School (1st Pl. Votes) Record Pts. Prev.
1 Chicago (17) 14-0-0 991 1
2 Trinity (Texas) (5) 15-0-0 969 2
3 Messiah 11-0-3 873 6
4 Amherst 11-1-1 862 5
5 Ohio Northern 13-0-3 833 4
6 Rowan 12-1-1 788 3
7 Franklin & Marshall 10-1-3 767 7
8 Kenyon 11-2-0 713 9
9 Calvin 12-2-0 653 11
10 Chris. Newport 12-2-1 544 12
11 Washington & Lee 10-3-0 521 10
12 Mass-Boston 12-1-1 485 8
13 St. Thomas 11-0-3 452 17
14 Elizabethtown 10-2-1 420 20
15 Haverford 9-2-2 416 18
16 Lynchburg 10-1-2 403 14
17 Colorado College 12-2-1 363 25
18 Rutgers-Newark 15-2-0 332 —
19 Rochester 8-1-3 330 22
20 Middlebury 8-1-3 304 21
21 Carnegie Mellon 9-2-2 272 13
22 Capital 11-1-2 259 19
23 Oneonta State 11-3-1 257 16
24 Tufts 7-3-2 130 —
25 St. Lawrence 10-3-0 126 15
Dropped out: No. 23 Washington U., No. 24 Springfield
Receiving Votes: Redlands 106, Oberlin 89, Lebanon Valley 71, Cortland State 64, Ohio Wesleyan 38, Washington U. 36, Springfield 36, Dubuque 20, Luther 16, St. Mary's (Md.) 13, Randolph-Macon 7, Montclair State 5, Clark 5, Connecticut College 2
The D3soccer.com Top 25 is voted on by a panel of coaches, Sports Information Directors and D3soccer.com staff, and is published weekly.
I would switch Etown and Haverford but that's just me. Also would have liked to see Scranton or Eastern in the RV section alongside LVC.
NSCAA NCAA Division III Men - Mid-Atlantic - Poll 6 - October 18, 2016
1. F&M
2. Messiah
3. Fords
4. Etown
5. LVC
6. Scranton
7. JHU
8. Gettysburg
9. Drew
10. Eastern
NSCAA NCAA Division III Men - National - Poll 6 - October 18, 2016
Rank School Prev. W-L-T
1 Trinity University (Texas) 1 15-0-0
2 University Of Chicago 2 14-0-0
3 Franklin & Marshall College 6 10-1-3
4 Ohio Northern University 5 12-0-3
5 Amherst College 11 11-1-1
6 University of St. Thomas 8 11-0-3
7 Rutgers University-Newark NR 15-2-0
8 SUNY Cortland 23 12-2-0
9 Messiah College 12 11-0-3
10 Rowan University 3 12-1-1
11 University of Redlands 13 13-2-0
12 University of Rochester 9 8-1-3
13 Haverford College 17 9-2-2
14 Carthage College 21 12-3-0
15 Middlebury College 19 8-1-3
16 University Of Massachusetts-Boston 4 12-1-1
17 Lynchburg College 14 10-1-2
18 SUNY Oneonta 7 11-3-1
19 University Of Dubuque NR 12-2-0
20 Colorado College 20 11-2-1
21 Oberlin College 15 11-2-1
22 Washington University (Mo.) 10 8-2-1
23 Kenyon College NR 11-2-0
24 Luther College 16 10-3-2
25 Calvin College 25 12-2-0
Also receiving votes: Elizabethtown College (6), Tufts University (4), Christopher Newport University (3), North Park University (1), Macalester College (1)
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 18, 2016, 04:04:33 PM
I would switch Etown and Haverford but that's just me. Also would have liked to see Scranton or Eastern in the RV section alongside LVC.
Just keep in mind that to get in the "receiving votes" in the D3soccer.com rankings, some voter needs to actually think the team deserves to be in the Top 25. No one is voting for places #26 thru #40. If a voter thinks Eastern is the 26th best team in the nation, for example, he doesn't put them in his 25-team ballot. There could be a consensus that a team is the 26th best team in the nation and they wouldn't get a single vote. Consequently, I'm usually more surprised by who is listed as receiving votes than by who is not listed.
Scranton and Haverford draw. Each team scored off a free kick.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 19, 2016, 07:25:27 AM
Scranton and Haverford draw. Each team scored off a free kick.
Most importantly for Haverford Corkery provided the free kick goal for them. So he is back. He's got to be one of the very best free kick specialists in D3 in recent memory.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 17, 2016, 01:42:23 PM
Wednesday's NCAA Regional Ranking Predictions
1. Messiah (11-0-3)
2. F&M (10-1-3)
3. Fords (9-2-2)
4. Etown (10-2-1)
5. Scranton (10-3-0)
6. Eastern (10-3-1)
7. Leb Val (10-2-0)
8. Hopkins (9-3-2)
9. Gettys (7-3-2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next in line: Misericordia (8-5-1), Lycoming (7-5-3), Drew (8-3-2)
Messiah is the unanimous #1 and will most likely stay their until the end.
F&M slides into #2 for now but wouldn't be surprised if they swap with the Fords over the next few weeks.
Fords have stayed the course without Corkey. Can they sustain this momentum when it really counts?
Etown will be top 4 for now, but the SOS and RvR will hurt the Bluejays once again. Watch for them to slowly slide in the ranks.
Scranton can catch Etown if they finish strong. Might be a similar scenario to last season for Scranton and Etown. Only 1 will advance.
Eastern is here solely off of record. They will drop when the RvR comes into play next week.
Leb Val has a HUGE game @Lycoming on Wednesday. If they have any shot of an at-large that is a must win game. Tie or loss won't cut it.
Hopkins and Gettysburg both have their work cut out for them to climb high enough for an at-large. RvR will be crucial for both.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Misericordia with some good results but a few too many losses early on keeps them out of the picture for right now.
Lycoming with recent struggles but the SOS and RvR has to factor in and keep them close behind. Still on the outside looking in.
Drew with quality results but a tough loss in conference keeps them just outside the cut off line.
Updated Records:1. Messiah (11-0-3)
2. F&M (10-1-3)
3. Fords (9-2-3)
4. Etown (10-2-1)
5. Scranton (10-3-1)
6. Eastern (10-3-1)
7. Leb Val (10-2-0)
8. Hopkins (9-3-2)
9. Gettys (7-3-2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next in line: Misericordia (8-5-1), Lycoming (7-5-3), Drew (8-3-2)
Still doesn't change my order but updated Scranton/Fords record after they tied last night. Thinking it will be something like this for the 1st rankings. There will be LOTS of movement from the 1st rankings to the 2nd rankings I can assure you of that.
Last night's results won't effect the NCAA Regional Rankings. They are based on results thru Sunday just like the NSCAA and D3soccer.com rankings. It just takes the NCAA more time because (a) they have to generate all the data (OWP-OOWP-SOS, etc.) and put it into tables for the committee members to review, and (b) the rankings are the result of committee conference calls/discussions, not by votes.
Etown squeaks by Lancaster Bible 3-2 in double OT on a horrific no call. 50/50 ball in the air and the goalie is taken out
LVC beats LYCO 2-1
Quote from: paclassic89 on October 19, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
Etown squeaks by Lancaster Bible 3-2 in double OT on a horrific no call. 50/50 ball in the air and the goalie is taken out.
And E-town needed OT to dispatch of Goucher last week. Not impressive even if they're still W's when you look at their record. Doesn't make you feel like they should be #3 in the region.
Quote from: paclassic89 on October 19, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
LVC beats LYCO 2-1
And that game was at Lyco where they were so strong last season. Discipline an issue again, having to play 56 minutes with 10 men. Conceded in the 10th minute, red card in 34th minute, conceded again in 70th before scoring with 2 minutes left.
Is the Centennial a three bid league right now?
I'm leaning towards 2 but we'll see how the season ends. It's possible that we could see 3 out of the centennial
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 19, 2016, 07:25:18 PM
Quote from: paclassic89 on October 19, 2016, 05:59:33 PM
LVC beats LYCO 2-1
And that game was at Lyco where they were so strong last season. Discipline an issue again, having to play 56 minutes with 10 men. Conceded in the 10th minute, red card in 34th minute, conceded again in 70th before scoring with 2 minutes left.
Lycoming sitting in 6th place now and have 2 conf games left to play. They could miss conf playoff...wow.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 19, 2016, 09:38:09 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 17, 2016, 01:42:23 PM
Wednesday's NCAA Regional Ranking Predictions
1. Messiah (11-0-3)
2. F&M (10-1-3)
3. Fords (9-2-2)
4. Etown (10-2-1)
5. Scranton (10-3-0)
6. Eastern (10-3-1)
7. Leb Val (10-2-0)
8. Hopkins (9-3-2)
9. Gettys (7-3-2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next in line: Misericordia (8-5-1), Lycoming (7-5-3), Drew (8-3-2)
Messiah is the unanimous #1 and will most likely stay their until the end.
F&M slides into #2 for now but wouldn't be surprised if they swap with the Fords over the next few weeks.
Fords have stayed the course without Corkey. Can they sustain this momentum when it really counts?
Etown will be top 4 for now, but the SOS and RvR will hurt the Bluejays once again. Watch for them to slowly slide in the ranks.
Scranton can catch Etown if they finish strong. Might be a similar scenario to last season for Scranton and Etown. Only 1 will advance.
Eastern is here solely off of record. They will drop when the RvR comes into play next week.
Leb Val has a HUGE game @Lycoming on Wednesday. If they have any shot of an at-large that is a must win game. Tie or loss won't cut it.
Hopkins and Gettysburg both have their work cut out for them to climb high enough for an at-large. RvR will be crucial for both.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Misericordia with some good results but a few too many losses early on keeps them out of the picture for right now.
Lycoming with recent struggles but the SOS and RvR has to factor in and keep them close behind. Still on the outside looking in.
Drew with quality results but a tough loss in conference keeps them just outside the cut off line.
Updated Records:
1. Messiah (11-0-3)
2. F&M (10-1-3)
3. Fords (9-2-3)
4. Etown (10-2-1)
5. Scranton (10-3-1)
6. Eastern (10-3-1)
7. Leb Val (10-2-0)
8. Hopkins (9-3-2)
9. Gettys (7-3-2)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next in line: Misericordia (8-5-1), Lycoming (7-5-3), Drew (8-3-2)
Still doesn't change my order but updated Scranton/Fords record after they tied last night. Thinking it will be something like this for the 1st rankings. There will be LOTS of movement from the 1st rankings to the 2nd rankings I can assure you of that.
NCAA Rankings Week 1Mid-Atlantic In-Division Record Overall Record
1. Messiah 11-0-3 11-0-3
2. Franklin & Marshall 10-1-3 10-1-3
3. Elizabethtown 10-2-1 10-2-1
4. Haverford 9-2-2 9-2-2
5. Drew 8-3-2 8-3-2
6. Scranton 10-3-0 10-3-0
7. Gettysburg 7-3-2 7-3-2
8. Lebanon Valley 9-2-0 10-2-0
9. Johns Hopkins 9-3-2 9-3-2
Big slate of game this weekend highlighted by the F&M Fords matchup.
Any predictions? (I'll post some tomorrow I just need some time to think) I listed some of the big games with conference playoff implications
F&M vs Fords
WAC vs Getty
Dickinson vs Swat
Mules vs Hopkins
Messiah vs Widener
E-town vs Susquehanna
Lyco vs Hood
Eastern vs Kings
FDU-Florham vs Misericordia
Quote from: phillyfan12 on October 20, 2016, 10:04:16 PM
Big slate of game this weekend highlighted by the F&M Fords matchup.
Any predictions? (I'll post some tomorrow I just need some time to think) I listed some of the big games with conference playoff implications
F&M vs Fords
WAC vs Getty
Dickinson vs Swat
Mules vs Hopkins
Messiah vs Widener
E-town vs Susquehanna
Lyco vs Hood
Eastern vs Kings
FDU-Florham vs Misericordia
Ford's vs f&m a big one. Maybe a 1-1 tie
Lycoming vs Hood is practically a must win game for Lycoming to qualify for conf playoffs. If they can avoid red cards they should pull it out 2-1 but they are struggling.
Quote from: phillyfan12 on October 20, 2016, 10:04:16 PM
Big slate of game this weekend highlighted by the F&M Fords matchup.
Any predictions? (I'll post some tomorrow I just need some time to think) I listed some of the big games with conference playoff implications
F&M vs Fords
WAC vs Getty
Dickinson vs Swat
Mules vs Hopkins
Messiah vs Widener
E-town vs Susquehanna
Lyco vs Hood
Eastern vs Kings
FDU-Florham vs Misericordia
F&M vs Fords is huge with ranking implications. I think it will be close but F&M takes it
I'm taking Dickinson over Swat
Hopkins beats the mules
Messiah easily beats widener
Etown has been struggling lately and I think this one might be a tie or a susquehanna upset.
As I see it, the cutoff line for MACC playoffs is around 12 points. Lyco absolutely has to win out. They only have 2 conference games left and are sitting at 7 points. Hood also needs a win desperately so this will be a good one. I'm taking Lyco
Eastern over kings
Misericordia over FDU
Fords win 1-0 in OT
Getty and WAC tie 2-2
Swat wins 2-1
Muhles shake things up with a 3-1 spanking
Messiah downs Widener 4-0
Susquehanna clinches a playoff berth with a surprise 0-0 tie
Lyco stays alive for one more game with a 4-3 2OT thriller
Eastern thrashes Kings 6-2
Misericordia keeps chugging along with a 2-1 win over FDU
I hope the results are more like your predictions actually . That would really shake things up!
F&M vs Fords
WAC vs Getty
Dickinson vs Swat
Mules vs Hopkins
Messiah vs Widener
E-town vs Susquehanna
Lyco vs Hood
Eastern vs Kings
FDU-Florham vs Misericordia
-------------------------------------------
F&M and Fords tie 1-1
Getty gets upended 2-1 by WAC
Swat draws Dickinson 1-1
Muhles draw JHU 2-2
Messiah coasts past Widener 3-0
Etown thumps Susquehanna 3-1
Lyco escapes Hood 1-0 OT
Kings gets a critical point and draws Eastern 1-1
FDU and Misericordia go goalless 0-0
F&M vs Fords -- Think this will be a tight one with each team having their pockets of good play. F&M will definitely be motivated to avenge last year's loss. Think it will come right down to the wire. I'm going to go with a 1-1 tie but wouldn't be surprised 2-1 F&M or even 2-1 Fords
WAC vs Getty -- Think WAC has been overachieving thus far and Getty are dangerous with loads of attacking talent. I think Henry Smith and co. just get it done. 2-1 Getty
Dickinson vs Swat -- Dickinson are certainly down this year but think they'll show up for this one and win 1-0
Mules vs Hopkins -- Hopkins haven't had great results against anyone particularly good while Muhlenberg have been playing good teams tight (F&M and Haverford). I think this one will end in a 1-1 draw.
Messiah vs Widener -- 2-0 Messiah here but the scoreline is misleading as the game was never really in doubt.
E-town vs Susquehanna -- 2-1 E-town even though I'm not totally sold on them
Lyco vs Hood -- Lyco with their backs against the wall will live to see another day but only barely. 2-1 Lyco
Eastern vs Kings -- Eastern bounce back from their FDU loss with a big victory over Kings 2-0.
FDU-Florham vs Misericordia -- Misericordia have been getting results all year and think that continues with a 2-1 victory ina big conference tilt
I was going to question everyone's pick of Misericordia over FDU-Florham, knowing that FDU had just beaten Eastern 3-1 and Manhattanville 2-0 in their last two games as part of a 4-game win streak. But Misericordia is at home and FDU is on the road, so Misericordia is probably the right pick even if they did lose their last home game 0-1 to Eastern who FDU beat at home 3-1 four days later. Misericordia's home/away splits have evened some after being 5-0-1 / 1-3-0 after 10 games; the Eastern home loss combined with three straight road wins (Manhattanville, Wilkes, DeSales) makes it 5-1-1 / 4-4-0. FDU's splits are 5-1-1 H / 1-3-1 A / 0-2-1 N with their only win away from home being DelVal. Also not in FDU's favor, they went 2-1-1 playing on their home turf before switching to their home grass field in their last three home matches, winning all three over Wilkes, Eastern, and Manhattanville. So FDU clearly struggles to win on the road and seems to be better on grass. A long-winded way of saying that, even though I set out to prove otherwise, the predictions of a Misericordia win is probably the right call.
Lycoming and Hood played to a scoreless tie this afternoon at Hood's homecoming game. Not good for Lycoming: they needed a win to get into the top 5 in the MACC. Hood sits in third with Arcadia, while Alvernia (who has a win over Lyco) is in fifth ahead of Lyco. Alvernia should beat Albright, but their final game vs LVC looms large. Lyco has just one conference game left, at home with Stevenson--a game they should win, but the Warriors have already lost multiple games they should have won so nothing is safe to assume. Stevenson's other conference game is against LVC. They could jump past Lyco if they beat them next week, but LVC will be involved in key games for other teams as they close their season. Messiah has 3 games left, Widener tonight followed by Hood and Arcadia next week. All of them still count, since LVC remains just one game back of the Falcons.
That was a game that Lyco needed to win. Mathematically they're still alive, but I think they'll end up missing out as crazy as that is. LVC is playing to keep their Pool C hopes alive so they need to beat Stevenson and Alvernia to finish out the season. My prediction for the playoff spots is 1.) Messiah 2) LVC 3,4,5 Arcadia, Alvernia, Hood all on 13 pts. Really interesting end to the regular season in store
Did anyone else watch the F&M - Fords game? Looked like a tight matchup in the first half but F&M seemed to take control of the game going into the win in overtime. 6 straight wins for the diplomats heading into an always-tricky Gettysburg and an upward-trending Dickinson. Could F&M jump Messiah in Wednesday's regional rankings with that win over Fords??
I watched part of the second half and OT. It looked like F&M were the better team. Messiah remains #1 regionally IMO
Quote from: Gunners95 on October 24, 2016, 11:06:57 PM
Did anyone else watch the F&M - Fords game? Looked like a tight matchup in the first half but F&M seemed to take control of the game going into the win in overtime. 6 straight wins for the diplomats heading into an always-tricky Gettysburg and an upward-trending Dickinson. Could F&M jump Messiah in Wednesday's regional rankings with that win over Fords??
Messiah had .584 SOS and f&m .548 . I would think win over haverford would give RvR points to f&m but not sure if that is enough to move them ahead of Messiah. Haverford on the other hand may drop more spots. If they lose any more games then they could drop from the rankings thereby making the win for f&m less valuable. Find out tomorrow if any movement in rankings
Arcadia ties Widener 1-1. That gives Arcadia 11 points. If they lose final game to Messiah and Lyco wins..they both have 11 and head to head they tied. Not sure what the next tie breaker is? Alvernia now at 13 so they locked up their spot.
The next tiebreaker is win/loss record vs. conference opponents starting with #1 and descending down the standings (from what I've been told). So they both lost against Messiah and LVC. The 3rd place team is Alvernia who Arcadia beat and Lyco lost to. So Arcadia gets the 5 seed and Lyco is out. I think that's correct. 1.) Messiah 2)LVC 3) Alvernia 4) Hood 5) Arcadia most likely
Quote from: paclassic89 on October 25, 2016, 09:44:16 PM
The next tiebreaker is win/loss record vs. conference opponents starting with #1 and descending down the standings (from what I've been told). So they both lost against Messiah and LVC. The 3rd place team is Alvernia who Arcadia beat and Lyco lost to. So Arcadia gets the 5 seed and Lyco is out. I think that's correct. 1.) Messiah 2)LVC 3) Alvernia 4) Hood 5) Arcadia most likely
That sounds reasonable. Hood still needs to win or tie to get to 13 or 11 points. Hood also tied Lyco head to head so if your tie breaker is correct..they lost to Messiah, Alvernia, and LVC. Don't know who 4th place will be. If Hood loses then Lyco can still get in outright if they manage to end with a win. Going to come down to the final game to work out the final 4 and 5 spots between 3 teams. Sounds like Arcadia is in at either 4 or 5 based on your analysis. The only question is will it be Hood or Lyco for the final spot.
Good point. Lyco plays Stevenson so that should be a win. Hood plays Widener. Widener played LVC tight and just tied Arcadia so it's a possibility that they can play spoiler and beat Hood. If they tie, I believe the tiebreaker is each team's result against Arcadia which would give Hood the 5th because they beat Arcadia and Lyco tied Arcadia.
Quote from: paclassic89 on October 25, 2016, 10:09:33 PM
Good point. Lyco plays Stevenson so that should be a win. Hood plays Widener. Widener played LVC tight and just tied Arcadia so it's a possibility that they can play spoiler and beat Hood. If they tie, I believe the tiebreaker is each team's result against Arcadia which would give Hood the 5th because they beat Arcadia and Lyco tied Arcadia.
Sound right. So Hood has their destiny in their own hands and Lyco needs help from Widener. Either way I think Messiah is in good shape playing at home with a healthy team. Anything can happen but they are in a good position to win the conference playoffs. LVC is probably the most dangerous team for them this year..but can't count Lyco out if they manage to qualify.
Lycoming with an upset on the road at #21 SUNY Oneonta with a 3-2 2OT win. The Warriors never trailed and it looks like they were outplayed from the box score but nevertheless they prevailed. This is a big win for Lycoming heading into the weekend and should give them the confidence needed to win on Saturday. Even if they win they still need lots of help for them to clinch a playoff spot. It will be an interesting weekend, but regardless this is a nice win for them.
Thoughts on rankings for today from NCAA?
I am thinking something along the lines of this...
NCAA Round 2 Ranking Predictions
1. Messiah (14-0-3) RvR 3-0-2
2. F&M (11-1-3) RvR 3-1-0
3. Fords (9-3-3) RvR 2-1-1
4. Etown (11-2-2) RvR 2-2-1
5. Scranton (11-3-1) RvR 1-2-1
6. Drew (9-4-2) RvR 1-0-1
7. LVC (13-2-0) RvR 0-1-0
8. Hopkins (10-3-2) RvR 1-2-0
9. Getty (8-3-3) RvR (0-3-1)
------------------------------------------------------
Eastern (13-3-1) RvR 0-0-0
Misericordia (10-5-1) RvR 0-2-1
Lycoming (8-6-4) RvR 2-4-1
Hood (10-5-1) RvR 0-3-0
Messiah and F&M will both be 1 and 2 that much we know. 3 through 9 will be messy and is anybody's guess but I think you will see something close to what I have. Without the current SOS it is hard to determine where some may land. Hopkins for example could easily jump Drew and Leb Val if their SOS is way higher. As for the outside looking in, Eastern having 0 games vs ranked opponents is sad. That alone will keep them completely out of the top 9 in my opinion despite their stellar record. Lycoming playing almost double the ranked opponents of any other team in the region this year with a decent showing versus ranked teams. If the record was a tad better they would be in the mix. Hood with 0 chance of cracking the top 9 with 0 results vs a ranked team and Misericordia is just a tad far behind for me to consider them.
# of Ranked Opponents Faced
Lycoming 7
Messiah 5
Etown 5
F&M 4
Fords 4
Scranton 4
Getty 4
JHU 3
Hood 3
Miseri 3
Drew 2
LVC 1
Eastern 0
MID-ATLANTIC
1 Messiah 13-0-3 13-0-3
2 Franklin & Marshall 11-1-3 11-1-3
3 Elizabethtown 11-2-2 11-2-2
4 Haverford 9-3-3 9-3-3
5 Scranton 11-3-1 11-3-1
6 Drew 9-4-2 9-4-2
7 Johns Hopkins 10-3-2 10-3-2
8 Gettysburg 8-3-3 8-3-3
9 Misericordia 10-5-1 10-5-1
Just reposting the latest rankings from yesterday. So, what is everybody's guess on the amount of time the committee spends putting these together? I know the discussion regarding SOS has been beaten to death but it seems like they get the data sheet with records, SOS, and RVR and just sort of eyeball teams and slot them in. I'd be surprised if it took them more than 30 mins.
I mean Misericordia over LVC? LVC beat them 4-0. The NCAA tournament manual lists the primary criteria as win %, H2H, common opponents, SOS, RVR without prescribing any weight to each factor. They should just remove the H2H and common opponents criteria if they aren't going to be used. Also, it seems like Drew is too high
Results of note from yesterday
F&M destroys Gettysburg
Drew ties Moravian
Haverford wins in OT over Ursinus
Misericordia ties Susquehanna
Hopkins destroys Mcdaniels
Quote from: paclassic89 on October 27, 2016, 10:28:53 AM
MID-ATLANTIC
1 Messiah 13-0-3 13-0-3
2 Franklin & Marshall 11-1-3 11-1-3
3 Elizabethtown 11-2-2 11-2-2
4 Haverford 9-3-3 9-3-3
5 Scranton 11-3-1 11-3-1
6 Drew 9-4-2 9-4-2
7 Johns Hopkins 10-3-2 10-3-2
8 Gettysburg 8-3-3 8-3-3
9 Misericordia 10-5-1 10-5-1
Just reposting the latest rankings from yesterday. So, what is everybody's guess on the amount of time the committee spends putting these together? I know the discussion regarding SOS has been beaten to death but it seems like they get the data sheet with records, SOS, and RVR and just sort of eyeball teams and slot them in. I'd be surprised if it took them more than 30 mins.
I mean Misericordia over LVC? LVC beat them 4-0. The NCAA tournament manual lists the primary criteria as win %, H2H, common opponents, SOS, RVR without prescribing any weight to each factor. They should just remove the H2H and common opponents criteria if they aren't going to be used. Also, it seems like Drew is too high
Results of note from yesterday
F&M destroys Gettysburg
Drew ties Moravian
Haverford wins in OT over Ursinus
Misericordia ties Susquehanna
Hopkins destroys Mcdaniels
Agreed on the committee's time spent on the rankings. Seems like LVC is getting short changed at the moment.
Also, looks like F&M has firmly stamped its authority on the Centennial with a convincing win while the Fords escape again but remain entirely unconvincing. Hopkins may be trending upward which bodes well for them if they see the Fords in the Centennial playoffs, although WAC may be the #3 seed in which case Hopkins would have to deal with F&M if they win the #4/#5 game
I agree that I think a good case could be made for LVC over the bottom two (Misericordia and Gettysburg) and maybe even Hopkins. LVC's SOS is just soo low that I think it's extremely hard for the committee to get past that and give much weight to their winning percentage. However, Gettysburg and Misericordia haven't managed any wins over ranked teams and their SOS's aren't just that great. Misericordia does have a tie (Messiah) from three matches against ranked teams, so that might have been what gave them the edge when combined with LVC's SOS dropping closer to .500 from week 1 to week 2 while Misericordia's SOS changed minimally. LVC has a loss in their lone game versus a ranked team (Messiah) so that adds to the strikes against them instead of helping to compensate for the low SOS. LVC played well and made Messiah work for that win, but that can't be captured and factored in the same way a tie (instead of a loss) can be.
Hopkins' SOS is pretty low too (.522) so they don't have as much of an advantage over LVC in that department like Gettysburg and Misericordia do. They did play three ranked teams and have a win vs. ranked to their name, so apparently that slightly better SOS and win vs. ranked more than compensated for having 3 more blemishes (1 more loss, 2 more ties) than LVC.
Now oddly enough, by Misericordia getting ranked, LVC's 4-0 win over Meisericordia will count for their RvR next week. Unfortunately, if Misericordia drops form the rankings next week (maybe with LVC taking their place due to having that win vs. ranked), LVC would then again lose that win vs. ranked for the fourth and final rankings that are used for at-large selections.
Bottom line, no matter if LVC is or is not in the rankings, they have no shot of being high enough to be in the at-large berth discussion, so it's all or nothing for them in the Commonwealth tournament.
Very nice analysis FW. I've been around D3 soccer for awhile but i'm pretty new to the whole ranking process so thanks for clarifying things. I guess at some point it would be nice if the committee quantified the extent to which SOS is weighted because it obviously is weighted very heavily (contrary to the description of primary criteria in the pre-championship manual). I'm going to use a Drew/LVC comparison as an example. In the latest Rankings, Drew is 6 and LVC is UR. Drew has a SOS of .545 and LVC has a SOS of .508 (a big difference in SOS of .037). Drew has 6 blemishes (now 7) and LVC has 2. So all things being equal, according to the committee, .01 of SOS makes up for approx one blemish. Then there is the factor of who they lost to and who they beat. One of the primary criteria listed is common opponents. LVC and Drew have 3 common opponents: Hood, Muhlenberg, Susquehanna. Drew's results: Hood L 2-1, Muhlenberg L 2-1, Susquehanna L 2-1. LVC's results: Hood W 1-0, Muhlenberg W 2-1, Susquehanna W 3-1.
I suspect that the committee doesn't bother with this sort of analysis. But why have H2H and common opponents listed as a primary criteria then? That's just disingenuous
Curious to hear opinions on this
It is my understanding that, at this stage, the "Committee" defers to Watson and Al Goreithm. Neither of whom ever played the game.
Based off of LVC 4-0 win over Misericordia and high winning % I would slot them ahead of Misericordia despite the limited RvR. Misericordia doesn't have a win vs ranked either and got smoked by LVC. Hard to see the justification in that 9th slot as well as having Drew so high despite a poor record and subpar SOS.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on October 28, 2016, 10:54:29 AM
Based off of LVC 4-0 win over Misericordia and high winning % I would slot them ahead of Misericordia despite the limited RvR. Misericordia doesn't have a win vs ranked either and got smoked by LVC. Hard to see the justification in that 9th slot as well as having Drew so high despite a poor record and subpar SOS.
I totally agree...however the whole region seems to be a bit down especially the Centennial Conference. I do not remember when teams like Haverford, Hopkins, Swat, etc had SUCH LOW SOS...To me Scranton is to high as well but if you really look at it there is no one more deserving to move up. If Messiah, F&M and ETOWn win their respective AQ's, you are looking at possibly only 1 Pool C in Haverford.
That comparison of common opponents for LVC and Drew (something I hadn't looked at until you brought it up) bolsters LVC's case even more and it does raise the question about how much the committee looks into that particular criterion. So let's return to LVC vs. Misericordia and look at their common opponents prior to the Week 2 rankings:
Wilkes: LVC 2-0 win away, Misericordia 1-0 win away
Arcadia: LVC 4-0 win away, Misericordia 1-2 loss at home
Lycoming: LVC 2-1 win away, Misericordia 2-1 win at home
Messiah: LVC 0-1 loss at home, Misericordia 1-1 tie at home
LVC has a slight or large edge in the first three and then Misericordia the edge against Messiah. But combining that ledger with LVC's 4-0 head-to-head win, and it really feels like LVC was deserving of being ranked.
So, results versus common opponents is a primary criteria, but is it being given much weight? It's certainly the most difficult criterion to consider as it doesn't neatly fit in a table or lend itself to sorting. Head-to-head, which also doesn't fit in the data sheet, is still much easier and quicker to consider and factor in as it's one game (maybe two). Those of us following the rankings for years are fully convinced that SOS and RvR (specifically wins vs. ranked) are weighted most heavily, but you'd like to think that the other primary criteria is given full attention as well. Now the one thing Drew had was that they played two teams ahead of them in the rankings and collected a win and a tie. If LVC had been ranked and Drew not (or down at 8 or 9), maybe their fans question how their results versus ranked teams (and not ones at the bottom end of the rankings) did get weighted more heavily. It's not easy. My guess is that not much separated Drew, Hopkins, Gettysburg, Misericordia, and LVC (Eastern's SOS is only .489, so forget about them) and that it wouldn't take much for any one of them to leap to the top or fall to the bottom of this sub-group.
Looking ahead, Drew's not going to lose their 1-0-1 RvR as their opponents aren't in danger of falling out of the rankings. Hopkins will like lose their win vs. ranked for the final rankings if Gettysburg misses the Week 3 rankings. As I already said, LVC gains a win vs. ranked for the Week 3 rankings, but could very well lose it for the final rankings. And it's all probably a mute point, as none of these teams will probably be in the running for an at-large anyways. If LVC won through to the Commonwealth final and lost to Messiah, it would mean they'd have a 15-3-0 record, SOS probably would go up a little but not much as they play 5-10-1 Alvernia Saturday off-setting the bump from playing Messiah in the final, their RvR would be 0-2-0 or 1-2-0 (depending if Misericordia stays ranked), and their results vs. common opponents would be favorable against teams like Drew and Misericordia at least. That's well short of what E-town (who was ranked #4 in Weeks 2 and 3) was sporting last year and they didn't have their name called.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 28, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
That comparison of common opponents for LVC and Drew (something I hadn't looked at until you brought it up) bolsters LVC's case even more and it does raise the question about how much the committee looks into that particular criterion. So let's return to LVC vs. Misericordia and look at their common opponents prior to the Week 2 rankings:
Wilkes: LVC 2-0 win away, Misericordia 1-0 win away
Arcadia: LVC 4-0 win away, Misericordia 1-2 loss at home
Lycoming: LVC 2-1 win away, Misericordia 2-1 win at home
Messiah: LVC 0-1 loss at home, Misericordia 1-1 tie at home
LVC has a slight or large edge in the first three and then Misericordia the edge against Messiah. But combining that ledger with LVC's 4-0 head-to-head win, and it really feels like LVC was deserving of being ranked.
So, results versus common opponents is a primary criteria, but is it being given much weight? It's certainly the most difficult criterion to consider as it doesn't neatly fit in a table or lend itself to sorting. Head-to-head, which also doesn't fit in the data sheet, is still much easier and quicker to consider and factor in as it's one game (maybe two). Those of us following the rankings for years are fully convinced that SOS and RvR (specifically wins vs. ranked) are weighted most heavily, but you'd like to think that the other primary criteria is given full attention as well. Now the one thing Drew had was that they played two teams ahead of them in the rankings and collected a win and a tie. If LVC had been ranked and Drew not (or down at 8 or 9), maybe their fans question how their results versus ranked teams (and not ones at the bottom end of the rankings) did get weighted more heavily. It's not easy. My guess is that not much separated Drew, Hopkins, Gettysburg, Misericordia, and LVC (Eastern's SOS is only .489, so forget about them) and that it wouldn't take much for any one of them to leap to the top or fall to the bottom of this sub-group.
Looking ahead, Drew's not going to lose their 1-0-1 RvR as their opponents aren't in danger of falling out of the rankings. Hopkins will like lose their win vs. ranked for the final rankings if Gettysburg misses the Week 3 rankings. As I already said, LVC gains a win vs. ranked for the Week 3 rankings, but could very well lose it for the final rankings. And it's all probably a mute point, as none of these teams will probably be in the running for an at-large anyways. If LVC won through to the Commonwealth final and lost to Messiah, it would mean they'd have a 15-3-0 record, SOS probably would go up a little but not much as they play 5-10-1 Alvernia Saturday off-setting the bump from playing Messiah in the final, their RvR would be 0-2-0 or 1-2-0 (depending if Misericordia stays ranked), and their results vs. common opponents would be favorable against teams like Drew and Misericordia at least. That's well short of what E-town (who was ranked #4 in Weeks 2 and 3) was sporting last year and they didn't have their name called.
It seems to me that the regional rankings are based purely on a mathematical formula that places too much weight on things like RvR. Lvc should definitely be in top 10. As someone else mentioned..if the formula considered head to head and common opponents it sure does not look like much weight is given. I would think that the whole point if ranking regionally is so you can consider more head to head and common opponents. After all there are not a lot of games between nescac and mid Atlantic or south Atlantic teams. I guess lvc needs to try to schedule some games with f&m, haverford, maybe a couple Jersey teams. I don't know why Messiah does not play these teams either? Seems playing the best local teams you can schedule would make sense to avoid having a 15-2 record and not being regionally ranked. Seems like etown last year was a victim.
Dickinson hands F&M 2nd loss. Dickinson seems to have F&m number. The head to head over last few years favors Dickinson by a lot. So with Messiah 3-0 win I'd guess that they overtake f&m in the NSCAA regional poll. They already were ahead in NCAA regional ranking. With Chicago losing and f&m at #2 nationally last week I wonder if Messiah will move to #1.
In other news Hood wins so Lycoming is officially out of the playoffs. What a shocking season for them.
Quote from: rudy on October 29, 2016, 05:25:40 PM
Dickinson hands F&M 2nd loss. Dickinson seems to have F&m number. The head to head over last few years favors Dickinson by a lot. So with Messiah 3-0 win I'd guess that they overtake f&m in the NSCAA regional poll. They already were ahead in NCAA regional ranking. With Chicago losing and f&m at #2 nationally last week I wonder if Messiah will move to #1.
In other news Hood wins so Lycoming is officially out of the playoffs. What a shocking season for them.
Rudy, Chicago tied, not lost, yesterday to CWRU. I expect they will retain their top ranking with the Falcons solidly number two and obviously number one in the Mid-Atlantic since F&M lost.
The Falcons finished their conference 8-0-0 while allowing just one goal--a PK vs Alvernia, which meant they had to win in OT. Alvernia is very tough so I'm glad to see them make the playoffs after that brutal schedule they took on. The puzzling game on their docket is the 3-1 loss at Arcadia, after they had started playing very well.
I have comoplaind ofr years about Messiah's "soft" out of conference scheduling by Brandt but was told back in the day he did not want to play on turf which supposedly these Centennial teams have. McCarty really upped the scheduling when he took over except for this season he had a fairly good schedule. I have said before there is no reason for Messiah not to play at least HALF the Centennial teams and a good opening weekend tournament(which they did 1 year when they went to Jersey). I commend Lycoming and Haverford coaches for having nutsack and taking chances and tryin to play the best teams possible. This year it did not work out for Lycoming but it seems they killed themselves by losing to bad teams. You cannot do that. I mean you just beat Oneonta St and now you cannot even get the low seed in a weak league...Not good
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 29, 2016, 05:51:46 PM
I have comoplaind ofr years about Messiah's "soft" out of conference scheduling by Brandt but was told back in the day he did not want to play on turf which supposedly these Centennial teams have. McCarty really upped the scheduling when he took over except for this season he had a fairly good schedule. I have said before there is no reason for Messiah not to play at least HALF the Centennial teams and a good opening weekend tournament(which they did 1 year when they went to Jersey). I commend Lycoming and Haverford coaches for having nutsack and taking chances and tryin to play the best teams possible. This year it did not work out for Lycoming but it seems they killed themselves by losing to bad teams. You cannot do that. I mean you just beat Oneonta St and now you cannot even get the low seed in a weak league...
Not good
Hard to criticize coaching decisions on scheduling when they won 10 national championships between 2000-2013. But I do agree they could add 1 or 2 more local teams that are typically better teams. The Virginia tournament this year was not a bad choice.. Lynchburg is regionally ranked. Some nescac teams have powder puff teams on their schedules ..pine manor ?
Never said Amherst and Midd do not schedule cupcakes but Nescac is a much tougher league week in / week out then the MACC...So teams do not need to schedule as tough out of conference because their SOS will already be very high. Just like the UAA
The thing about SOS is that it's so tough to reliably schedule strong teams week in and week out. Plus there is the issue with having to play half of your games in conference and basically being at the mercy of other teams records like you said. Looking at the MACC, Lycoming and Alvernia both underperformed and then you have 3 other teams with awful records (stevenson, albright, widener) albright is never any good but stevenson and widener typically can manage over .500 seasons. Also, Etown jumping ship on the conference really hurt us. It would be a fairly strong conference with Messiah, Etown, LVC, Lycoming, Alvernia, Hood etc
In other news, LVC lost to Alvernia 1-0 in OT which effectively ends their faint pool C hopes. It was an fairly even game and should be a great semi-final matchup next Thursday.
MAF Regional Power Rankings
1. Messiah (15-0-3)
2. F&M (12-2-3)
3. Fords (11-3-3)
4. Etown (12-2-2)
5. Scranton (12-3-1)
6. Hopkins (12-3-2)
7. Leb Val (13-3-0)
8. Eastern (14-3-1)
9. Drew (10-4-3)
10. Misericordia (11-5-2)
--------------------------------------
11. Gettysburg (9-4-3)
12. Lycoming (9-6-4)
*Not based off what I think NCAA's will be, but rather who I believe the best teams are right now in order, hence the "power" rankings*
As for NCAA's....thinking something like this:
1. Messiah
2. F&M
3. Fords
4. Etown
5. Scranton
6. Hopkins
7. Drew
8. Misericordia
9. Gettysburg/LVC/Eastern/Lyco
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on October 31, 2016, 11:41:03 AM
MAF Regional Power Rankings
1. Messiah (15-0-3)
2. F&M (12-2-3)
3. Fords (11-3-3)
4. Etown (12-2-2)
5. Scranton (12-3-1)
6. Hopkins (12-3-2)
7. Leb Val (13-3-0)
8. Eastern (14-3-1)
9. Drew (10-4-3)
10. Misericordia (11-5-2)
--------------------------------------
11. Gettysburg (9-4-3)
12. Lycoming (9-6-4)
*Not based off what I think NCAA's will be, but rather who I believe the best teams are right now in order, hence the "power" rankings*
As for NCAA's....thinking something like this:
1. Messiah
2. F&M
3. Fords
4. Etown
5. Scranton
6. Hopkins
7. Drew
8. Misericordia
9. Gettysburg/LVC/Eastern/Lyco
Can the Landmark get 2 teams into the dance?
Interesting one today with Eastern vs. Kings. I think Eastern are poised to take this one like they did in the first meeting.
Also, I think Misericordia takes down DeSales while Hood ends Arcadia's run as they've limped into the playoffs (winless in their last three).
Interesting that Messiah and LVC play on Thursday in the semi-finals. I think this is better than playing the semifinal on Saturday and the final on Sunday like the Centennial does
The MAC Commonwealth and Freedom always play their semifinals midweek. and their finals on Saturday. The Freedom with no 4-5 play-in game, typically opts for Tuesday and Wednesday semifinals, alternating year-by-year which gender plays which night. The Commonwealth with the 4-5 play-in games, has the semifinals on Wednesday and Thursday, alternately between the genders, and the play-in games being two days before the semifinals (Monday or Tuesday depending).
You can add the Landmark to the list on conferences playing a semi-final game mid-week.
For those of you interested, tomorrow's games feature....
#3 Drew at #2 Scranton: Scranton hosts a semi-final for the second year and has an opportunity to avenge the home field 2-1 loss to Drew earlier in the season.
#4 Susquehanna at #1 Elizabethtown: This one played to a 2-2 draw on Susquehanna's turf just 10 days ago, so it could be tighter than a #1 vs. #4 seed suggests.
I would be very careful for Etown to make sure they do not lose that semi-final game. They only have 2 ranked wins and 1 of the v Hobart might drop off. With only 1 ranked win ans a SOS of possibly under.540 they could drop below Scranton and Haverford to #5 ib the region and be squarely on the outside of the bubble IMO. If they win it they should be fine.
For comparison sake I want to put some resumes side by side with no names...please don't look them up but rather comment back with who you think has the stronger resume. I feel as if this region isn't using the full criteria to its effect.
Team A: 14-3-1, WP: .806%, SOS: .499, RvR 1-0-0, 4 blemishes
Team B: 10-4-3, WP: 676%, SOS: .536, RvR 1-1-1, 7 blemishes
Team C: 12-3-2, WP: .765%, SOS: .511, RvR 1-2-0, 5 blemishes
Team D: 9-6-4, WP: .579%, SOS: .574, RvR 2-4-1, 10 blemishes
Team E: 11-5-2, WP: .667%, SOS: .527, RvR 0-1-1, 7 blemishes
Team F: 9-6-2, WP: .588%, SOS: .525, RvR 0-2-2, 8 blemishes
Team G: 9-4-3, WP: .656%, SOS: .557, RvR 0-4-1, 7 blemishes
4 of the above resumes made the rankings and 3 did not. I am curious how you would rank them if you were the committee and saw this in front of you. Rank the above teams with 1 being the best and 7 being last solely based off of the resumes.
Here are mine:
1. Team C
2. Team B
3. Team D
4. Team G
5. Team E
6. Team F
7. Team A
-----------------------------------
1. Hopkins
2. Drew
3. Lyco
4. Gettysburg
5. Misericordia
6. Washington College
7. Eastern
I don't know how others would stack them up, but I find it interesting that the team from this group of 7 that has the best SOS, most wins vs ranked opponents, most games vs ranked opponents, and the same amount of wins or 1 less isn't in the rankings but others with a, in my opinion, not as good resume are ranked high in the region. Just curious on thoughts when taking a step back and comparing all these teams.
SUNY New Paltz is 8-4-7 and in the last slot in the East. That's 11 blemishes and one less slot in the East region to make it and they are there with a .569 SOS, 2-1-1 RvR and a WP: .605% (Just an interesting comparison for the blemish argument)
Should have included Team H: 12-3-0, WP: .800%, SOS: .490, RvR 1-1-0, 3 blemishes
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 02, 2016, 04:02:27 PM
Should have included Team H: 12-3-0, WP: .800%, SOS: .490, RvR 1-1-0, 3 blemishes
Yes throw that resume in the mix too!
I think the lowest SOS to make the tournament last year was .526 your team is in trouble if they don't break .525 threashold.
That's true Go2Goal, but the comparison being discussed wasn't about selection for an at-large berth, it was merely the order of teams in the lower half of the Mid-Atlantic regional rankings, debating who should have gotten the last few spots and in what order.
Obviously LVC's very low SOS is preventing them from getting ranked. But as discussed several days ago, I think when you compare LVC to Misericordia, Gettysburg, Hopkins, and Drew considering ALL the primary criteria, not just SOS and RvR, they should be right in the mix and a good case could be made for having them ranked in place of one of those teams. For example, LVC has the advantage over Misericordia in winning pct. (.800 vs. .667), RvR (1-1-0 vs. 0-1-1), common opponents (3-1-0 8GF 2GA vs. 2-1-1 5GF 4GA), and head-to-head they won 4-0 (yes, 4-0 win head-to-head), but have a lower SOS (.490 vs. .527). There can be little explanation for Misericordia being ranked and LVC not, besides there being a SOS threshhold even if vague (+/-.500) and unwritten/unspoken.
And the thing about LVC's low SOS is that the MAC Commonwealth was down this year overall with Widener and Lyco having significantly worse years, Alvernia a bit worse, and only Messiah doiong better. So LVC's SOS took a hit of probably about .020 but maybe as much as .025 due to conference opponents getting worse. If they had a .510 or .515 SOS to compare with that group above, then they might get a fair shake on the other criteria. Now, LVC's non-conference schedule certainly leaves much to be desired, and that's their own fault. You can't be playing Berkeley (NJ), Wilkes, and Cairn combined with no Top 40-ish type opponents (Misericorida was the best they played out of conference).
It'd be interesting to see a criterion by criterion comparison with Hopkins, given their low .511 SOS, and Gettysburg, given their lack of wins vs. ranked). Anyway, it's win the AQ or stay home for LVC, and I'm not saying that's completely unjust, but I do think they probably deserved to have been ranked. And the fact that they aren't is suggestive of there being some SOS threshhold that all the other primary criteria can't compensate for.
^ Well said. It 's just baffling that there isn't a more uniform and transparent way of ranking the teams. D1 Men's and Women's soccer uses an RPI system throughout the year so I'm not sure why that couldn't be implemented in D3. I found this really informative breakdown of the D1 Women's RPI system https://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/ (https://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/) I couldn't find anything regarding the men's formula which I think is slightly different but it gives a good insight into the process. Regardless, LVC still needed to schedule a tougher out of conference schedule so they were at fault there.
LVC just beat Alvernia 2-0 so they're awaiting the winner of Arcadia v Messiah
Messiah takes care of business, beating Arcadia 4-0 in a lopsided and asymmetric game. Predictably, Arcadia put everyone in front of the ball in the first half, and quite literally possessed the ball on the other end less than half a minute all together. No shots for them in the first 45 minutes, whereas the Falcons had maybe two dozen, maybe half of them on goal and many of those very well struck, including a couple of headers that just somehow ended up in the keeper's capable hands--he kept his team in the game and also got lucky, insofar as several of the rockets (there were several) were right at him. No score at the half.
Messiah scored in the first six minutes of the second half and the floodgates opened as Arcadia was forced to attack. No change in the result, but it made for better watching.
The Falcons are at the top of their game heading into the conference final vs LVC on Saturday. Barring a major surprise, they will be rolling into the dance next week as a lock to host a sectional.
Not a lock to host a sectional in an even year if their women's team makes it that far.
Quote from: just4kix on November 04, 2016, 10:55:27 AM
Not a lock to host a sectional in an even year if their women's team makes it that far.
Do I have it backwards? I thought men hosted in even years, whenever both teams make it. Surely the women will also get a bid this year....
I'm pretty sure men would host Round 1/2, women would host sectional round.
Quote from: just4kix on November 04, 2016, 01:16:12 PM
I'm pretty sure men would host Round 1/2, women would host sectional round.
Thank you for that clarification. I looked up the rules and you are correct. So was I, but my terminology was wrong. What I meant is that the men are a lock to host the first weekend, but I erroneously referred to it as the sectional. I was assuming, incorrectly, that the terms are "sectional," "regional," and final four, whereas in fact the "sectional" means the second weekend, not the first.
Quote from: Falconer on November 03, 2016, 09:26:18 PM
Messiah takes care of business, beating Arcadia 4-0 in a lopsided and asymmetric game. Predictably, Arcadia put everyone in front of the ball in the first half, and quite literally possessed the ball on the other end less than half a minute all together. No shots for them in the first 45 minutes, whereas the Falcons had maybe two dozen, maybe half of them on goal and many of those very well struck, including a couple of headers that just somehow ended up in the keeper's capable hands--he kept his team in the game and also got lucky, insofar as several of the rockets (there were several) were right at him. No score at the half.
Messiah scored in the first six minutes of the second half and the floodgates opened as Arcadia was forced to attack. No change in the result, but it made for better watching.
The Falcons are at the top of their game heading into the conference final vs LVC on Saturday. Barring a major surprise, they will be rolling into the dance next week as a lock to host a sectional.
i must admit at the beginning of the season the Falcons looked sketchy but they came back and are putting on quite a show.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 05, 2016, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 03, 2016, 09:26:18 PM
Messiah takes care of business, beating Arcadia 4-0 in a lopsided and asymmetric game. Predictably, Arcadia put everyone in front of the ball in the first half, and quite literally possessed the ball on the other end less than half a minute all together. No shots for them in the first 45 minutes, whereas the Falcons had maybe two dozen, maybe half of them on goal and many of those very well struck, including a couple of headers that just somehow ended up in the keeper's capable hands--he kept his team in the game and also got lucky, insofar as several of the rockets (there were several) were right at him. No score at the half.
Messiah scored in the first six minutes of the second half and the floodgates opened as Arcadia was forced to attack. No change in the result, but it made for better watching.
The Falcons are at the top of their game heading into the conference final vs LVC on Saturday. Barring a major surprise, they will be rolling into the dance next week as a lock to host a sectional.
i must admit at the beginning of the season the Falcons looked sketchy but they came back and are putting on quite a show.
Let's wait and see when they come up against some top competition in the NCAA 2nd / 3rd round. With 3 NJAC teams going to the NCAA's you have to figure 1 or even 2 of the NJAC sides will be in their path down the line.
Centennial Final 1:00 pm tomorrow.
F&M at Haverford.
Have both done enough or do the Fords need to win?
Predictions?
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 05, 2016, 11:16:21 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 03, 2016, 09:26:18 PM
Messiah takes care of business, beating Arcadia 4-0 in a lopsided and asymmetric game. Predictably, Arcadia put everyone in front of the ball in the first half, and quite literally possessed the ball on the other end less than half a minute all together. No shots for them in the first 45 minutes, whereas the Falcons had maybe two dozen, maybe half of them on goal and many of those very well struck, including a couple of headers that just somehow ended up in the keeper's capable hands--he kept his team in the game and also got lucky, insofar as several of the rockets (there were several) were right at him. No score at the half.
Messiah scored in the first six minutes of the second half and the floodgates opened as Arcadia was forced to attack. No change in the result, but it made for better watching.
The Falcons are at the top of their game heading into the conference final vs LVC on Saturday. Barring a major surprise, they will be rolling into the dance next week as a lock to host a sectional.
i must admit at the beginning of the season the Falcons looked sketchy but they came back and are putting on quite a show.
It's normal for the Falcons to look less than stellar for about the first 1/3 to 1/2 of the season. Some years they start even less than stellar, such as 2015 after losing that great class of seniors with significantly less talent behind them, but almost every year they take several games before their possession game starts to click. I don't think this current group is quite as talented as the group I just mentioned, but they certainly have plenty and they are on a roll. The biggest missing piece is a great striker--they have neither a Josh Wood nor a Jeremy Payne. On the other hand, I actually think they have more overall team speed than that great class that played their last season in 2014.
IMO, they snuck up on a lot of us b/c they are just so young, with only one senior starter--although he is their best player, who will surely be an AA this year, Jacob "Bend it like" Bender. He was a regional AA in the back last year (he should have been a national AA, but since the Falcons didn't get a bid that didn't help his case), but McCarty moved him into an attacking MF position this year and he's dominating that side of the ball while providing extremely dangerous free kicks and corners. Moving Bender was possible b/c of more depth in the back, and now that freshman Cooper Robbins (a younger brother of former AA CB Carter Robbins) is starting at CB, Justin Brautigan has moved up into the MF where he can add size and experience to a smallish group. Those two moves have proved brilliant, and are partly responsible for the Falcon resurgence all by themselves.
Quote from: backyarddawg on November 05, 2016, 06:30:56 PM
Centennial Final 1:00 pm tomorrow.
F&M at Haverford.
Have both done enough or do the Fords need to win?
Predictions?
I think with a loss the Ford's will have a nervy wait until the selection show as they'll be on the bubble. I watched both games yesterday and the Ford's looked the better team. They completely outplayed and outshot WAC who went down to 10 men in the 2nd half. Hopkins gave F&M all they could handle but somehow couldn't finish one of their great chances.
I think F&M was looking ahead to today but they survived so think they'll come out with ferocity and intensity that they didn't play with yesterday. I'm not sure which way to go in this game but gun to my head I'd say 1-0 F&M (maybe in OT, maybe in regulation).
It's going to be close and come down to one or two moments.
Quote from: phillyfan12 on November 06, 2016, 08:53:31 AM
Quote from: backyarddawg on November 05, 2016, 06:30:56 PM
Centennial Final 1:00 pm tomorrow.
F&M at Haverford.
Have both done enough or do the Fords need to win?
Predictions?
I think with a loss the Ford's will have a nervy wait until the selection show as they'll be on the bubble. I watched both games yesterday and the Ford's looked the better team. They completely outplayed and outshot WAC who went down to 10 men in the 2nd half. Hopkins gave F&M all they could handle but somehow couldn't finish one of their great chances.
I think F&M was looking ahead to today but they survived so think they'll come out with ferocity and intensity that they didn't play with yesterday. I'm not sure which way to go in this game but gun to my head I'd say 1-0 F&M (maybe in OT, maybe in regulation).
It's going to be close and come down to one or two moments.
Ford's win it so centennial should get 2 in the tournament
F&M is all set and may even host NCAA 1st / 2nd round...That will be interesting to watch for.
Haverford played very well. Got ahead 2-0 in first half. Although they allowed the Dips only 3 shots in the second half, F&M scored. Haverford missed one huge opportunity pretty late in the game.
Haverford played very well. Got ahead 2-0 in first half. Although they allowed the Dips only 3 shots in the second half, F&M scored. Haverford missed one huge opportunity pretty late in the game.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2016, 03:17:58 PM
F&M is all set and may even host NCAA 1st / 2nd round...That will be interesting to watch for.
I doubt they will host after this loss but you never know.
F&M will host, as will the Fords. Bracket PDF is here: http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2016.pdf (http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2016.pdf)
Tried to upload the PDF, but got an error msg. Sorry.
Mid-Atlantic 1st Round Match-ups
Fords vs Merchant Marine
Etown vs Vassar
Eastern vs Rochester
Messiah vs Centenary
Morrisville vs Cortland
Scranton vs Behrend
F&M vs Geneva
Toughest Game:
Morrisville vs Cortland
Easiest Game: (please keep in mind there are no easy games at this point!!!)
Messiah vs Centenary
Most Intriguing Game:
Eastern vs Rochester
Toughest Grouping: (toughest group that contains a Mid-Atlantic team)
F&M, Geneva, SLU, W&L
Best Chance to make Final 4:
F&M if they survive round 2
Some side notes...
Messiah with a difficult 2nd round match regardless of who wins. Looking past that any of the 4 teams from the next quadrant that they would meet in round 3 is brutal. I believe this section will be extremely difficult for Messiah to come out of. I hate to say it because they are extremely talented but the draw did not favor the Falcons this year. I think they get tripped up before the Final 4. Haverford has an easier road if they get past Rowan but I think they are a little down this year and will get tripped up early as well. If F&M can survive round 2 I think you will see them make the Elite 8. Wouldn't it be something if they met Messiah for a trip to the Final 4?! One can only hope of a match-up like that which would guarantee a Mid-Atlantic team in the Final 4. It's an up hill battle for the region from my perspective.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 07, 2016, 01:50:07 PM
Mid-Atlantic 1st Round Match-ups
Fords vs Merchant Marine
Etown vs Vassar
Eastern vs Rochester
Messiah vs Centenary
Morrisville vs Cortland
Scranton vs Behrend
F&M vs Geneva
Toughest Game:
Morrisville vs Cortland
Easiest Game: (please keep in mind there are no easy games at this point!!!)
Messiah vs Centenary
Most Intriguing Game:
Eastern vs Rochester
Toughest Grouping: (toughest group that contains a Mid-Atlantic team)
F&M, Geneva, SLU, W&L
Best Chance to make Final 4:
F&M if they survive round 2
Some side notes...
Messiah with a difficult 2nd round match regardless of who wins. Looking past that any of the 4 teams from the next quadrant that they would meet in round 3 is brutal. I believe this section will be extremely difficult for Messiah to come out of. I hate to say it because they are extremely talented but the draw did not favor the Falcons this year. I think they get tripped up before the Final 4. Haverford has an easier road if they get past Rowan but I think they are a little down this year and will get tripped up early as well. If F&M can survive round 2 I think you will see them make the Elite 8. Wouldn't it be something if they met Messiah for a trip to the Final 4?! One can only hope of a match-up like that which would guarantee a Mid-Atlantic team in the Final 4. It's an up hill battle for the region from my perspective.
Playing msu at home will be a definite advantage for Messiah assuming they win first game. You have to play good teams at some point to get to final 4 no matter what region you are in.
I actually think Messiah has a decent draw. Outside of Montclair (interesting that we might see that after discussion a few days ago!!!), I don't see a lot to trouble the Falcons. Some good teams for sure but wouldn't favor any of them over Messiah. And CNU might take out Montclair.
They could have had an easier path is what I was trying to get at. Obviously there are no easy games at this point, but some are better suited than others. From my perspective, there are 11 teams in that section that can make a run to the Final 4...
Messiah
Montclair
CNU
CMU
OWU
Calvin
ONU
Cortland
F&M
W&L
SLU
For the other 3 sections I would say something like this...
5 teams in Amherst section
Amherst
Babson
Brandeis
Newark
Oneonta
----------------------------
5 teams in Chicago section
Chicago
DePauw
Wash U
Carthage
UWW
---------------------------
7 teams from Rowan section
Rowan
Tufts
Fords
UMass Boston
Trinity
Whitworth
Kenyon
These are obviously just my thoughts but I think it's safe to say that the competition is a little heavier in Messiah's section than others. Now I am not saying that they wouldn't be favored in their games...but just more of a chance to get tripped up.
MAF, I respectfully disagree. I'll have to look through them all more carefully again, but I'll give you the Chicago quad.
Otherwise, let's talk about just from Messiah's and Kenyon's perspectives. You are counting the entire Carnegie Mellon pod. Only one team there will survive and advance and so only one of those could be a potential foe for Messiah. The Montclair-Newport winner (again only have to play one of them, not both) is a tough game for the second round for a #1 seed. A Sweet 16 game against the survivor of the CMU pod is fair, and while all good teams capable of a big upset it would be a big upset for any of those four. In the Elite 8 you only play the survivor among F&M, Cortland, Scranton, SLU, W&L, etc. So feel bad for SLU and W&L having to play each other in the FIRST ROUND, but that shouldn't trouble a Messiah fan. Again, which team out of those do you fear the most? F&M? Messiah would be favored significantly, if not heavily, against F&M on its home field.
Now Kenyon. 1st round against Maryville, a 18-2 team that handed BOTH Roanoke and Centre their worst losses of the season (4-0 and 6-1). If they advance, Kenyon would get Lynchburg (16-1-4) on its own field before a large, raucous Lynchburg crowd OR fellow Ohio foe John Carroll currently on a roll and capable of giving anyone in the country a tough game. In the Sweet 16 we could get 20-1 Trinity, as tough as any possible Sweet 16 game for Messiah. And then in the Elite 8 it's likely the winner of Rowan/Tufts or Haverford/UMass-Boston. Again, that Elite 8 projects to be as tough as anything Messiah would face.
So Chicago has a good path. And Amherst basically has a pass all the way to the Sweet 16 where its toughest opponent would be Babson or Brandeis. RUN or Oneonta (if they survive) in the Elite 8 would present a challenge but one where Amherst likely again on its home field would be significantly favored.
Like I think you said, you can't get to the Final Four without beating somebody good, unless of course the top challengers get upset before that and clear a path even more.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 07, 2016, 05:42:19 PMA Sweet 16 game against the survivor of the CMU pod is fair, and while all good teams capable of a big upset it would be a big upset for any of those four. In the Elite 8 you only play the survivor among F&M, Cortland, Scranton, SLU, W&L, etc. So feel bad for SLU and W&L having to play each other in the FIRST ROUND, but that shouldn't trouble a Messiah fan. Again, which team out of those do you fear the most? F&M? Messiah would be favored significantly, if not heavily, against F&M on its home field.
Messiah men most likely won't be hosting Sectionals as women have Sectional hosting priority in even numbered years. The Falcon ladies have to travel this weekend for the same reason: men have 1st/2nd Round hosting priority in even numbered years.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 07, 2016, 05:42:19 PM
MAF, I respectfully disagree. I'll have to look through them all more carefully again, but I'll give you the Chicago quad.
Otherwise, let's talk about just from Messiah's and Kenyon's perspectives. You are counting the entire Carnegie Mellon pod. Only one team there will survive and advance and so only one of those could be a potential foe for Messiah. The Montclair-Newport winner (again only have to play one of them, not both) is a tough game for the second round for a #1 seed. A Sweet 16 game against the survivor of the CMU pod is fair, and while all good teams capable of a big upset it would be a big upset for any of those four. In the Elite 8 you only play the survivor among F&M, Cortland, Scranton, SLU, W&L, etc. So feel bad for SLU and W&L having to play each other in the FIRST ROUND, but that shouldn't trouble a Messiah fan. Again, which team out of those do you fear the most? F&M? Messiah would be favored significantly, if not heavily, against F&M on its home field.
Now Kenyon. 1st round against Maryville, a 18-2 team that handed BOTH Roanoke and Centre their worst losses of the season (4-0 and 6-1). If they advance, Kenyon would get Lynchburg (16-1-4) on its own field before a large, raucous Lynchburg crowd OR fellow Ohio foe John Carroll currently on a roll and capable of giving anyone in the country a tough game. In the Sweet 16 we could get 20-1 Trinity, as tough as any possible Sweet 16 game for Messiah. And then in the Elite 8 it's likely the winner of Rowan/Tufts or Haverford/UMass-Boston. Again, that Elite 8 projects to be as tough as anything Messiah would face.
So Chicago has a good path. And Amherst basically has a pass all the way to the Sweet 16 where its toughest opponent would be Babson or Brandeis. RUN or Oneonta (if they survive) in the Elite 8 would present a challenge but one where Amherst likely again on its home field would be significantly favored.
Like I think you said, you can't get to the Final Four without beating somebody good, unless of course the top challengers get upset before that and clear a path even more.
FW is right: If Messiah plays F&M, it won't be on their home field--unless the women get knocked out this weekend. So, as in 2014 (when the Falcons lost to Tufts on a small, muddy field at Muhlenberg), the Falcons don't get home field advantage on the second weekend. Ditto for Chicago, not that they need that in their bracket.
Actually, when Brandt was coaching the Falcons, he preferred to play tournament games on the road: fewer distractions, in his opinion. Indeed the only time the Falcons played at home in the final four, 2001, they lost in the semi-final.
although messiah may have the toughest looking bracket, it will help them in the elite 8 and final 4 rounds. from past experience we had to be 4 teams that were nationally ranked in the top 25, THEN on top of that had to play the best Messiah team in school history. looking back at it i wouldn't change a thing. every game was so close and nerve racking just like it should be.
Quote from: Falconer on November 07, 2016, 08:05:20 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 07, 2016, 05:42:19 PM
MAF, I respectfully disagree. I'll have to look through them all more carefully again, but I'll give you the Chicago quad.
Otherwise, let's talk about just from Messiah's and Kenyon's perspectives. You are counting the entire Carnegie Mellon pod. Only one team there will survive and advance and so only one of those could be a potential foe for Messiah. The Montclair-Newport winner (again only have to play one of them, not both) is a tough game for the second round for a #1 seed. A Sweet 16 game against the survivor of the CMU pod is fair, and while all good teams capable of a big upset it would be a big upset for any of those four. In the Elite 8 you only play the survivor among F&M, Cortland, Scranton, SLU, W&L, etc. So feel bad for SLU and W&L having to play each other in the FIRST ROUND, but that shouldn't trouble a Messiah fan. Again, which team out of those do you fear the most? F&M? Messiah would be favored significantly, if not heavily, against F&M on its home field.
Now Kenyon. 1st round against Maryville, a 18-2 team that handed BOTH Roanoke and Centre their worst losses of the season (4-0 and 6-1). If they advance, Kenyon would get Lynchburg (16-1-4) on its own field before a large, raucous Lynchburg crowd OR fellow Ohio foe John Carroll currently on a roll and capable of giving anyone in the country a tough game. In the Sweet 16 we could get 20-1 Trinity, as tough as any possible Sweet 16 game for Messiah. And then in the Elite 8 it's likely the winner of Rowan/Tufts or Haverford/UMass-Boston. Again, that Elite 8 projects to be as tough as anything Messiah would face.
So Chicago has a good path. And Amherst basically has a pass all the way to the Sweet 16 where its toughest opponent would be Babson or Brandeis. RUN or Oneonta (if they survive) in the Elite 8 would present a challenge but one where Amherst likely again on its home field would be significantly favored.
Like I think you said, you can't get to the Final Four without beating somebody good, unless of course the top challengers get upset before that and clear a path even more.
FW is right: If Messiah plays F&M, it won't be on their home field--unless the women get knocked out this weekend. So, as in 2014 (when the Falcons lost to Tufts on a small, muddy field at Muhlenberg), the Falcons don't get home field advantage on the second weekend. Ditto for Chicago, not that they need that in their bracket.
Actually, when Brandt was coaching the Falcons, he preferred to play tournament games on the road: fewer distractions, in his opinion. Indeed the only time the Falcons played at home in the final four, 2001, they lost in the semi-final.
So where would they likely play if they made it to sectionals? Highest remaining seed? They don't list seed# in brackets which seems odd.
I'll stand by my overall point. I DO believe MSU will or would be dangerous, even on Messiah's field, but who knows with MSU and whether they'll even get by CNU. After that, I don't see who would beat Messiah. I don't think F&M would beat them on any field. So, I can go along with maybe a tough break with such a tough 2nd round match but they do have home field for that and otherwise I think their quad is pretty good for them. As I said in another thread, IMO Chicago, Messiah and Amherst are fairly strong favorites to reach the Final Four.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 07, 2016, 09:32:00 PM
I'll stand by my overall point. I DO believe MSU will or would be dangerous, even on Messiah's field, but who knows with MSU and whether they'll even get by CNU. After that, I don't see who would beat Messiah. I don't think F&M would beat them on any field. So, I can go along with maybe a tough break with such a tough 2nd round match but they do have home field for that and otherwise I think their quad is pretty good for them. As I said in another thread, IMO Chicago, Messiah and Amherst are fairly strong favorites to reach the Final Four.
the last quad is a toss up. so many teams could some out there
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 07, 2016, 05:42:19 PM
MAF, I respectfully disagree. I'll have to look through them all more carefully again, but I'll give you the Chicago quad.
Otherwise, let's talk about just from Messiah's and Kenyon's perspectives. You are counting the entire Carnegie Mellon pod. Only one team there will survive and advance and so only one of those could be a potential foe for Messiah. The Montclair-Newport winner (again only have to play one of them, not both) is a tough game for the second round for a #1 seed. A Sweet 16 game against the survivor of the CMU pod is fair, and while all good teams capable of a big upset it would be a big upset for any of those four. In the Elite 8 you only play the survivor among F&M, Cortland, Scranton, SLU, W&L, etc. So feel bad for SLU and W&L having to play each other in the FIRST ROUND, but that shouldn't trouble a Messiah fan. Again, which team out of those do you fear the most? F&M? Messiah would be favored significantly, if not heavily, against F&M on its home field.
Now Kenyon. 1st round against Maryville, a 18-2 team that handed BOTH Roanoke and Centre their worst losses of the season (4-0 and 6-1). If they advance, Kenyon would get Lynchburg (16-1-4) on its own field before a large, raucous Lynchburg crowd OR fellow Ohio foe John Carroll currently on a roll and capable of giving anyone in the country a tough game. In the Sweet 16 we could get 20-1 Trinity, as tough as any possible Sweet 16 game for Messiah. And then in the Elite 8 it's likely the winner of Rowan/Tufts or Haverford/UMass-Boston. Again, that Elite 8 projects to be as tough as anything Messiah would face.
So Chicago has a good path. And Amherst basically has a pass all the way to the Sweet 16 where its toughest opponent would be Babson or Brandeis. RUN or Oneonta (if they survive) in the Elite 8 would present a challenge but one where Amherst likely again on its home field would be significantly favored.
Like I think you said, you can't get to the Final Four without beating somebody good, unless of course the top challengers get upset before that and clear a path even more.
I understand what you're saying and not even entirely disagreeing. My point is that there are more possibilities of teams that could come out of Messiah's section than others based on name recognition and rankings. I think you posted elsewhere where Messiah and Rowan have a similar amount of ranked teams from top 15 compared to Amherst and Chicago. That's what I was trying to hint at :)
ECAC Division III Men's Soccer Championship
Region 1 First Round – Saturday, Nov. 12 at Rutgers University - Camden
No. 1 Rutgers - Camden (8-8-4) vs. No. 4 Hunter (10-7-1) at Rutgers - Camden 11:00 a.m.
No. 2 Drew (10-5-3) vs. No. 3 NYU (9-7-2) at Rutgers - Camden 2:00 p.m.
Region 2 First Round - Saturday, Nov. 12 at Lebanon Valley College
No. 1 Lebanon Valley (14-4-0) vs. No. 4 Cabrini (12-7-1) at Lebanon Valley 11:00 a.m.
No. 2 Grove City (14-4-1) vs. No. 3 Arcadia (9-7-4) at Lebanon Valley 2:00 p.m.
Region 3 First Round – Saturday, Nov. 12 at Ramapo College
No. 1 Ramapo (10-4-3) vs. No. 4 CSI (11-7-2) at Ramapo 11:00 a.m.
No. 2 William Paterson (8-8-2) vs. No. 3 Moravian (8-4-4) at Ramapo 2:00 p.m.
Region 4 First Round – Saturday, Nov. 12 at Alfred University
No. 1 Alfred University (8-7-2) vs. No. 4 Cobleskill (8-8-2) at Alfred 5:00 p.m.
No. 2 PSU - Altoona (11-7-1) vs. No. 3 PSU - Harrisburg (11-8-0) at Alfred 7:00 p.m.
Quarterfinals - Sunday, Nov. 13
Quarterfinal #1: 12:00 p.m.
Quarterfinal #2: 12:00 p.m.
Quarterfinal #3: 12:00 p.m.
Quarterfinal #4: 2:00 p.m.
Semifinals – Saturday, Nov. 19 at highest remaining seed
Semifinal #1: 11:00 a.m.
Semifinal #2 2:00 p.m.
Championship – Sunday, Nov. 20 at highest remaining seed
Winner Semifinal #1 vs. Winner Semifinal #2 – 12:00 p.m.
Mid-Atlantic Region goes 6 wins and 1 loss in the first round. Followed up by 2-4 in the second round. Messiah and F&M are all that remain from the region. Only 1 team can make the Final 4 since they are both in the same quadrant. Messiah will have their hands full with Calvin as will F&M with Cortland. The long wait for the weekend begins :'(
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on September 07, 2016, 08:43:22 AM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
We saw the Messiah schedule drop off in 2015 when they lost Payne, Thompson, Brandt, and Ramirez.
Messiah looked strong vs Noke. In a seemingly down year, I think Messiah will return to dominance. There are only 2 teams that could reach the Elite 8 in my opinion... Messiah and Haverford. I will have to watch Lycoming more this season, but going on a softer schedule last year and a close game vs Amherst is not indicative of a sure thing to a deeper run in 2016.
They still have a tough 7 game stretch and will seemingly have to win the MACC. Starting out 3-4-2 would put a ton of pressure on Lyco... with Miseri and THEN at Oneonta St late in the season when the Red Dragons should be in strong form.
at Susqu today... Crusaders will probably just absorb pressure and try to escape with a DRAW.
at Eastern
at Haverford
gimme vs Juniata
vs Scranton
vs Frostburg St (Frostburg could cause some problems and should not be overlooked); similar shot count vs Alvernia last year; both were 9 - 7
vs CWRU
WIN OR BUST for the WARRIORS after dropping the first two games...
Sorry last guy but Messiah will not return to dominance this year and by no means will they have a shot to make the Elite 8. Messiah will be lucky to get a bid this year if they don't win the MACC.
F&M has a legit shot with the games being at Messiah. However, I'll pick Cortland St in this clash.
After seeing both teams this past weekend I have to favor F&M over Cortland St. I was impressed with F&M this past weekend and to be quite honest they have a much easier game then Messiah does v Calvin who i think can stifle Messiah offensively and that game might come down to Pk's...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2016, 12:07:28 PM
After seeing both teams this past weekend I have to favor F&M over Cortland St. I was impressed with F&M this past weekend and to be quite honest they have a much easier game then Messiah does v Calvin who i think can stifle Messiah offensively and that game might come down to Pk's...
I entirely agree with your analysis here, Mr Right, except the part about Cortland--only b/c I haven't seen them play myself and cannot apply the eye test. The other three teams are all top caliber, worthy of making the Final Four. Perhaps Cortland is also.
I've felt for weeks that Calvin, Messiah, and F&M were all superior in talent and coaching to Rowan, but I kept that to myself b/c the objective data did not support such a claim. IMO Rowan relied too much on overly physical play, which doesn't usually work against the best teams--and can actually backfire, when officiating in the tournament (usually but not always superior to what you find in the regular season) calls the fouls and gives the free kicks and PKs that are in the rules. I didn't see the Rowan-Tufts game, but others have said Tufts wasn't intimidated. I imagine they weren't.
I don't expect to see much physicality in this sectional next weekend. (Actually a business trip probably means I won't see it at all.) I expect those teams to play soccer at a very high level. It might indeed come down to PKs. If Messiah ends up playing F&M, it will be a coaching battle between former college teammates. They run their programs in a similar way and their teams play similar styles. That game would feature Messiah vs their mirror image. ::)
Sites have been updated.
Messiah is Fri/Sat
The rest (Tufts, Amherst, UChicago) are Sat/Sun
http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2016.pdf
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
F&M has a legit shot with the games being at Messiah. However, I'll pick Cortland St in this clash.
Are the sectionals definitely at Messiah? Have not seen that posted yet.
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
F&M has a legit shot with the games being at Messiah. However, I'll pick Cortland St in this clash.
Are the sectionals definitely at Messiah? Have not seen that posted yet.
yes.
http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2016.pdf
Messiah announced it on their Twitter feed late last night, if you're looking for further confirmation...
https://twitter.com/MessiahSports/status/798011423787917312
Quote from: njf1003 on November 14, 2016, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
F&M has a legit shot with the games being at Messiah. However, I'll pick Cortland St in this clash.
Are the sectionals definitely at Messiah? Have not seen that posted yet.
yes.
http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2016.pdf
Thanks. I saw that link just after I posted the question. Did not see the Twitter post though. I like Messiahs chances playing on home field better than away on Turf so this is good news
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2016, 01:47:37 PM
Quote from: njf1003 on November 14, 2016, 12:56:57 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2016, 12:50:24 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on September 07, 2016, 07:55:47 AM
F&M has a legit shot with the games being at Messiah. However, I'll pick Cortland St in this clash.
Are the sectionals definitely at Messiah? Have not seen that posted yet.
yes.
http://i.turner.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/gametool/brackets/soccer-men_d3_2016.pdf
Thanks. I saw that link just after I posted the question. Did not see the Twitter post though. I like Messiahs chances playing on home field better than away on Turf so this is good news
I like F&M playing on turf better, so this is not good news! (lol)
But the NCAA seems to have a preference for grass and Messiah was regionally ranked higher so I have no actual problems with this decision!
Messiah was the highest seed in the sectional so as soon as the Messiah women didn't get to host (they weren't the highest seed in their sectional), the men were going to get to stay at home. Who knows, given the men's Sectional is Fri/Sat, they may have been selected to host even if the women hosted Sat/Sun.
Chicago hosted both men and women this past weekend, which was easier since Chicago men had a 1st Rnd bye, but it still meant 3 games on Saturday as both men and women played a Sat/Sun schedule.
Can you explain what you mean by highest seed in the section?
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 14, 2016, 02:48:42 PM
Can you explain what you mean by highest seed in the section?
Think of it like the NCAA tournament for college basketball. Messiah is essentially the #1 seed in the quadrant so they would have the first chance at hosting.
The NCAA has the teams seeded to some extent as that factors into who hosts. For the 1st/2nd Round pods, the team at the top is the high seed in that pod regardless of who ends up hosting (that's stated in the Pre-Championships Manual). Beyond that you can't know for sure the seeding. However, in this case, Messiah was #1 and ahead of F&M in the final Mid-Atlantic regional rankings. Calvin was only at #4 in the Central regional rankings and has inferior win pct., SOS, RvR to Messiah. Cortland State at #1 in the East regional rankings could potentially be the highest seed in the sectional. Messiah has a slightly better win pct., and little better SOS, and the RvR it's hard to say (Cortland 4-2-0, Messiah 2-0-3). The assumption that Messiah was the highest seed seems to be validated by Messiah being named the host, but there could be other reasons for that (e.g. Cortland didn't bid to host).
Messiah hosting makes perfect sense to me but if the NCAA really has seeds then it would make sense to me that they should announce them rather than having to assume Messiah is the top seed because they are hosting. In the end travel seems to trump (ugh!) seeds which would explain why the Inter-Galactic Quad is at Tufts and not Trinity or Kenyon. There will be lots of interesting games this weekend where ever they are.
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 15, 2016, 11:17:49 AM
Messiah hosting makes perfect sense to me but if the NCAA really has seeds then it would make sense to me that they should announce them rather than having to assume Messiah is the top seed because they are hosting. In the end travel seems to trump (ugh!) seeds which would explain why the Inter-Galactic Quad is at Tufts and not Trinity or Kenyon. There will be lots of interesting games this weekend where ever they are.
Inter-Galactic Quad. I like it. I vote we use that term with the same commitment as "Giant Slayer Goal." ;)
Additionally, Boston is one of the most affordable air markets in the country, which - in addition to only having to fly two teams instead of three - perhaps also explains why it was chosen. I have flown to five different U.S. cities in the past six months alone for $99 or less round trip. ;D
Well, the men's Transcontinental Sectional is not at Trinity foremost because their women are the high seed in their sectional and being an even-numbered year, women have hosting priority for sectionals.
I think there's probably a host of reasons to not announce seedings. First and foremost, I don't think they do a full, formal seeding down through all the teams like the D-I Basketball. The seeding does not really factor into the formation of brackets and pairings. Geographical proximity and avoiding pitting teams from same conference in the first round seem to be the over-riding factors, combined with avoiding pitting top team against each other in the first round. With the brackets formed, then they decide who hosts, at which point I think they look at seeding, or rather determine who would be the higher seed, consulting the final regional rankings. Once they have determined the high seed in a pod or sectional, they try to reward that team with hosting privileges if (a) they bid to host, (b) have satisfactory facilities/hosting capabilities, (c) doesn't require excessive flying-in of other teams, and (d) their men's/women's team doesn't have hosting priority. Now, I can imagine as they form the brackets, they already are thinking about who will host. So I don't think they have an overall seeding, rather just seeding the teams with each pod and then in each sectional. If they do have some broader seeding, since that seeding doesn't drive the bracketing, listing those seeds would broadcast in black and white where geography forced two top teams to play each other earlier than their seeding would justify. Why announce that and draw attention to that? To be clear, I am guessing here a bit and trying infer a bit from the language in the Pre-Championships Manual which doesn't spell this type of stuff out.
My guess is it all comes down to $$$$$$$...Although was it in 2013 or 2014 when in the 1st round the committee sent Colorado College inexplicably to New England at Babson in what was one of the most eye opening decisions I have ever seen them do. I questioned if they had seeded all the West teams and forgot Colorado College and had to stick them somewhere. I would not put that past them...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2016, 02:37:42 PM
My guess is it all comes down to $$$$$$$...Although was it in 2013 or 2014 when in the 1st round the committee sent Colorado College inexplicably to New England at Babson in what was one of the most eye opening decisions I have ever seen them do. I questioned if they had seeded all the West teams and forgot Colorado College and had to stick them somewhere. I would not put that past them...
Actually was 2012, but I remember that. That day, Brandeis was playing at home in the 1st Round in its first NCAA game in 27 years, and before the game I was getting a bite to eat at the convenience store across the train tracks where I ran into a group of in-uniform college soccer refs. I forget what game they said they were reffing, I think they had done the Babson vs. Colorado College game and were just coming to watch the Brandeis game since it was close by, but we got talking and they said that Babson lost to Colorado College at home and I was flabbergasted that CC had been sent all the way east. Of course, they do not really "fit" into any given region, so obviously they'd have to travel, but I didn't think they'd bring them out here.
Big games today for Mid Atlantic. Will we have a Messiah vs F&M elite 8? Will know soon enough. No sure thing at this point..both games will be highly contested. Could have one or both games go to OT but I really hope not. All teams in this group have experience in the tournament and have been here before in the sweet 16. Good luck to all ...regardless of outcome there will be seniors playing their last games today and others continuing for at least one more game. Wish them well.
Honestly if Brandeis wasn't playing tomorrow I would be rooting for Rutgers-Newark in the Elite 8. They are fun to watch and, for a program who made its first NCAA appearance in 2013, has risen meteorically in the last few years and it has been great to see them do well. They would be a worthy representative in the Final 4.
Here is a list of what I have found so far for the 2017 class in this region. I am sure there are many more that haven't been listed on public websites or social media, but I tried to find as many as I could from these kinds of websites. Please feel free to add to the lists for your respective school that you cheer for if you know of any commitments!
Catholic:
Nick Battaglia
F&M:
Alex Martinez
JT Mogan
Ryan Hannum
Ryan Horan
Gettysburg:
Erik Carneal
Sam Lerman
Jonathan Molina
Goucher:
Vinay Chandra
Haverford:
Sykes Cargile
Will Klein
Matt Machiejewski
Hopkins:
Liam Creedon
RJ Moore
Lycoming:
Logan Cushing
Arthur Nganou
Messiah:
Joe King
Stevenson:
Jaylen Smith
Susquehanna:
Kyle Trainor
Swarthmore:
Connor Gill
The way too early 2017 conference preseason polls! ***These are just predictions***
Centennial:
1. F&M
2. Fords
3. Gettysburg
4. Dickinson
5. Hopkins
6. Muhlenberg
7. Swat
8. Wash College
9. McDaniel
10. Ursinus
CSAC:
1. Cabrini
2. Keystone
3. Centenary
4. Neumann
5. Marywood
6. Immaculata
7. Gwynedd Mercy
8. Cairn
9. Rosemont
10. Clarks Summit
Landmark:
1. Etown
2. Scranton
3. Susquehanna
4. Catholic
5. Drew
6. Goucher
7. Moravian
8. Juniata
MAC Commonwealth:
1. Messiah
2. LVC
3. Lycoming
4. Alvernia
5. Arcadia
6. Stevenson
7. Hood
8. Widener
9. Albright
MAC Freedom:
1. Eastern
2. Misericorida
3. Manhattanville
4. Kings
5. DeSales
6. FDU
7. Wilkes
8. Del Val
NEAC:
1. Morrisville
2. Keuka
3. Wells
4. Lancaster Bible
5. PSU-Abington
6. PSU- Berks
7. SUNY Poly
8. Wilson
9. Penn College
10. Cazenovia
11. Bryn Athyn
12. Gallaudet
13. Suny Cobleskill
14. St. Elizabeth
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on February 09, 2017, 09:33:28 AM
Here is a list of what I have found so far for the 2017 class in this region. I am sure there are many more that haven't been listed on public websites or social media, but I tried to find as many as I could from these kinds of websites. Please feel free to add to the lists for your respective school that you cheer for if you know of any commitments!
Catholic:
Nick Battaglia
F&M:
Alex Martinez
JT Mogan
Ryan Hannum
Ryan Horan
Gettysburg:
Erik Carneal
Sam Lerman
Jonathan Molina
Goucher:
Vinay Chandra
Haverford:
Sykes Cargile
Will Klein
Matt Machiejewski
Hopkins:
Liam Creedon
RJ Moore
Lycoming:
Logan Cushing
Arthur Nganou
Messiah:
Joe King
Stevenson:
Jaylen Smith
Susquehanna:
Kyle Trainor
Swarthmore:
Connor Gill
Great job with this list MAF! I don't know of anyone to add at the moment.
Nothing to add other than , thank you , and following...
http://www.goeasterneagles.com/news/2017/3/24/wagner-steps-away-from-mens-soccer-program.aspx
Big news in the region. A change at the top for Eastern Men's Soccer.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Lycoming has posted their 2017 schedule and once again it is a challenge.
Camden and Rowan back to back on opening weekend is potential trouble as well as traveling to Dickinson the following weekend. Scranton and Case Western Reserve will also pose as big threats.
I have not found any other team's schedule from this region so please share if you find them :)
D3 National Player of the Year signs professional contract...
http://www.charlotteindependence.com/news_article/show/775328?referrer_id=2701681 (http://www.charlotteindependence.com/news_article/show/775328?referrer_id=2701681)
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on March 27, 2017, 08:22:51 AM
http://www.goeasterneagles.com/news/2017/3/24/wagner-steps-away-from-mens-soccer-program.aspx
Big news in the region. A change at the top for Eastern Men's Soccer.
This is a big loss for Eastern. My son did not pick Eastern but on our recruitment visit, I was so impressed with Wagner. Of all the visits, Eastern was the best. The whole visit was nice but the highlight was Wagner's remarks on soccer philosophy and so forth. I was thoroughly impressed by him but we found the school lacking in academics. Great looking campus and all the other colleges near by provide great overall atmosphere.
http://gomustangsports.com/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20170406ptr3lv
Another coaching change in the region. Stevenson head coach leaves for D1 assistant coaching position. The women's coach takes over as the new men's coach.
http://gomustangsports.com/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20170407dcmppz
Here is Scranton's schedule..
DATE OPPONENT NOTES RESULT STATUS LINKS
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 Centenary (N.J.) Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 2 Allegheny Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:00 PM
Live stats
Wed. 6 at King's (Pa.) Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 9 at Cortland St. Cortland, N.Y. TBA
Tue. 12 at Misericordia Dallas, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 16 Lycoming Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 20 Haverford Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:30 PM
Live stats
Sat. 23 Moravian * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 27 Wilkes Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 30 at Elizabethtown * Elizabethtown, Pa. 3:30 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Drew * Madison, N.J. 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 Susquehanna * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 10 at Dickinson Carlisle, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 14 at Juniata * Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 17 at Elmira Elmira, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Goucher * Baltimore, Pa. 3:30 PM
Sat. 28 Catholic * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Here is Scranton's schedule..
DATE OPPONENT NOTES RESULT STATUS LINKS
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 Centenary (N.J.) Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 2 Allegheny Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:00 PM
Live stats
Wed. 6 at King's (Pa.) Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 9 at Cortland St. Cortland, N.Y. TBA
Tue. 12 at Misericordia Dallas, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 16 Lycoming Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 20 Haverford Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:30 PM
Live stats
Sat. 23 Moravian * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 27 Wilkes Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 30 at Elizabethtown * Elizabethtown, Pa. 3:30 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Drew * Madison, N.J. 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 Susquehanna * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 10 at Dickinson Carlisle, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 14 at Juniata * Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 17 at Elmira Elmira, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Goucher * Baltimore, Pa. 3:30 PM
Sat. 28 Catholic * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Challenging schedule for a team that lost some key players. The 5 game stretch of @Kings, @Cortland, @Mis, Lyco, and Fords is difficult and will make or break the non-conference record for them. Throwing in @Dickinson is another tough opponent. If I had to guess right now, without knowing what they are bringing in yet, I'd venture with 9-5-2 range.
Lycoming bringing in 10 for 2017. Looks like some talented players once again for the Warriors.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/news/2017/5/16/warriors-announce-incoming-mens-soccer-class.aspx
Eastern schedule is up as well. A littler tougher than previous seasons but still nothing they shouldn't be able to handle.
http://www.goeasterneagles.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 06, 2017, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Here is Scranton's schedule..
DATE OPPONENT NOTES RESULT STATUS LINKS
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 Centenary (N.J.) Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 2 Allegheny Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:00 PM
Live stats
Wed. 6 at King's (Pa.) Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 9 at Cortland St. Cortland, N.Y. TBA
Tue. 12 at Misericordia Dallas, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 16 Lycoming Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 20 Haverford Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:30 PM
Live stats
Sat. 23 Moravian * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 27 Wilkes Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 30 at Elizabethtown * Elizabethtown, Pa. 3:30 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Drew * Madison, N.J. 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 Susquehanna * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 10 at Dickinson Carlisle, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 14 at Juniata * Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 17 at Elmira Elmira, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Goucher * Baltimore, Pa. 3:30 PM
Sat. 28 Catholic * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Challenging schedule for a team that lost some key players. The 5 game stretch of @Kings, @Cortland, @Mis, Lyco, and Fords is difficult and will make or break the non-conference record for them. Throwing in @Dickinson is another tough opponent. If I had to guess right now, without knowing what they are bringing in yet, I'd venture with 9-5-2 range.
8-8-1 is my prediction. That's a tough schedule and the conference is no pushover. I can see losses to Cortland, Misericordia, Lycoming, Haverford, Etown, Dickinson, and then 2 other conference games such as Catholic, Susquehanna, or Drew.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 06, 2017, 09:54:17 AM
Lycoming bringing in 10 for 2017. Looks like some talented players once again for the Warriors.
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/news/2017/5/16/warriors-announce-incoming-mens-soccer-class.aspx
Eastern schedule is up as well. A littler tougher than previous seasons but still nothing they shouldn't be able to handle.
http://www.goeasterneagles.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Eastern has Cal Luthern and Etown at neutral sites.
Catholic, Swarthmore, PSU-Abington, Cabrini, Misericordia, FDU-Florham, and DeSales at home.
Alvernia, Centenary, Manhattanville, Gettysburg, Del Val, Kings, Wilkes, and Stockton on the road.
I predict them going around 11-5-2.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 06, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 06, 2017, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Here is Scranton's schedule..
DATE OPPONENT NOTES RESULT STATUS LINKS
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 Centenary (N.J.) Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 2 Allegheny Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:00 PM
Live stats
Wed. 6 at King's (Pa.) Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 9 at Cortland St. Cortland, N.Y. TBA
Tue. 12 at Misericordia Dallas, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 16 Lycoming Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 20 Haverford Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:30 PM
Live stats
Sat. 23 Moravian * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 27 Wilkes Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 30 at Elizabethtown * Elizabethtown, Pa. 3:30 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Drew * Madison, N.J. 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 Susquehanna * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 10 at Dickinson Carlisle, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 14 at Juniata * Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 17 at Elmira Elmira, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Goucher * Baltimore, Pa. 3:30 PM
Sat. 28 Catholic * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Challenging schedule for a team that lost some key players. The 5 game stretch of @Kings, @Cortland, @Mis, Lyco, and Fords is difficult and will make or break the non-conference record for them. Throwing in @Dickinson is another tough opponent. If I had to guess right now, without knowing what they are bringing in yet, I'd venture with 9-5-2 range.
8-8-1 is my prediction. That's a tough schedule and the conference is no pushover. I can see losses to Cortland, Misericordia, Lycoming, Haverford, Etown, Dickinson, and then 2 other conference games such as Catholic, Susquehanna, or Drew.
Is E-Town your prediction for the pre-season poll or do you give the nod to Scranton after back to backs.
HAVERFORD 2017 SCHEDULE
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 at Cabrini, TBA
Wed. 6 Messiah, 5:00 PM
Sat. 9 vs. Elizabethtown @ Eastern (Jimmy Mills Tournament), TBA
Sun. 10 Catholic (Jimmy Mills Tournament), 1:00 PM
Wed. 13 Stevens, 5:00 PM
Sat. 16 at Johns Hopkins*, 7:00 PM
Wed. 20 at Scranton, 7:30 PM
Sat. 23 Franklin & Marshall*, 2:00 PM
Wed. 27 at Muhlenberg*, 7:00 PM
Sat. 30 at Gettysburg*, 7:00 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Rutgers-Camden, 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 McDaniel*, 2:00 PM
Wed. 11 at Drew, 7:30 PM
Sat. 14 at Washington College*, 4:00 PM
Wed. 18 Ursinus*, 4:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Dickinson*, 4:00 PM
Sat. 28 Swarthmore*, 3:30 PM
Non-conference slate includes Messiah, E-town, Stevens, Rutgers-Camden and Scranton on top of a very competitive Centennial Conference schedule. As their release stated, they "will play each of the other top six teams in last year's NCAA Mid-Atlantic Region rankings and seven of the top nine."
Big early test for both Messiah and Haverford on 9/6. Hope/assume this means Haverford coming to Grantham in 2018.
Etown's Schedule
Fri. 9/1/2017 Morrisville State Elizabethtown, Pa.
Sat. 9/2/2017 William Paterson Elizabethtown, Pa.
Jimmy Mills Tournament
Sat. 9/9/2017 Haverford St. Davids, Pa. - Eastern University TBA Details
Sun. 9/10/2017 Eastern Haverford, Pa. - Haverford College 3:30 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/13/2017 Franklin & Marshall Lancaster, Pa. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 9/16/2017 Penn State Harrisburg Middletown, Pa. 1 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/20/2017 Alvernia Reading, Pa. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 9/23/2017 Conference Game Drew Madison, N.J. 4 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/27/2017 Messiah Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7:30 p.m. Details
Sat. 9/30/2017 Conference Game Scranton Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Wed. 10/4/2017 Conference Game Moravian Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/7/2017 Conference Game Catholic Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Thu. 10/12/2017 Penn State Berks Reading, Pa. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/14/2017 Conference Game Goucher Towson, Md. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/21/2017 Conference Game Susquehanna Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 4:30 p.m. Details
Wed. 10/25/2017 Muhlenberg Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/28/2017 Conference Game Juniata Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 p.m. Details
Well, Messiah hasn't released their schedule yet, but from other teams' schedules we can piece together a majority of their non-conference schedule (eight games). There will probably be another non-conference game or two.
Messiah Non-conference Schedule
9/1 (Fri) 2:30pm (N) Chapman (15-6-2 / SCIAC 10-4-2 / NCAA 2nd Rnd) (@ Mary Washington Soccer Classic)
9/2 (Sat) 5:00pm (A) Mary Washington (14-4-0 / CAC 8-1-0) (@ Mary Washington Soccer Classic)
9/6 (Wed) 5:00pm (A) Haverford (14-3-4 / Centennial 8-1-0, Champs / NCAA 2nd Rnd)
9/9 (Sat) 7:00pm (H) Montclair St. (16-6-1 / NJAC 4-4-1 / NCAA 1st Rnd loss)
9/13 (Wed) 7:00pm (H) Dickinson (8-8-2 / Centennial 5-3-1)
9/16 (Sat)
9/20 (Wed) 7:00pm (A) York, Pa. (8-9-2 / CAC 4-4-1)
9/23 (Sat) ? ? ? Misericordia (12-5-3 / Freedom 6-1-0) ? ? ?
9/27 (Wed) 7:30pm (A) Elizabethtown (14-4-2 / Landmark 5-0-2 / NCAA 2nd Rnd)
10/5 (Thu) 7:00pm (H) Johns Hopkins (12-3-3 / Centennial 6-3-0)
Confirmed Dropped from 2016: Lynchburg, Olgethorpe, Gettysburg, Washington & Lee
Likely Dropped from 2016: Roanoke, Oswego, Mount St. Vincent
Retained from 2016: York (Pa.), Elizabethtown
Added for 2017: Chapman, Mary Washington, Haverford, Montclair St., Dickinson, Johns Hopkins
Retained/Dropped???: Misericordia
Comments/observations:
:: Longtime opponent Dickinson is back after a one-year absence from the schedule, but this year it's Gettysburg (2nd only to E-town in games against) who has been dropped.
:: The six new additions we already know about should more than make up for losing Lynchburg, Wash & Lee, etc. to give the Falcons a solid strength-of-schedule.
:: The NJAC and Montclair St. is back on the schedule. The Falcons did a home-and-away with Montclair St. in 2013 and 2014, and did a home and away with Rowan in 2014 and 2015.
:: Messiah and Misericordia have played a pair of home-and-away series over the past four years, so will that continue for at least another two years or not?
This is more of a 2018 thing, but thought people here might be interested in a story on D3sports.com about a new conference coming in this region:
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2017/06/new-conference-shuffle-coming
Yeah, I saw that yesterday, Pat. Just when things seemed like they might stabilize for a while, here we go again. Will be interesting to see the domino effect play out over the next few years.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 06, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 06, 2017, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Here is Scranton's schedule..
DATE OPPONENT NOTES RESULT STATUS LINKS
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 Centenary (N.J.) Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 2 Allegheny Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:00 PM
Live stats
Wed. 6 at King's (Pa.) Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 9 at Cortland St. Cortland, N.Y. TBA
Tue. 12 at Misericordia Dallas, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 16 Lycoming Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 20 Haverford Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:30 PM
Live stats
Sat. 23 Moravian * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 27 Wilkes Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 30 at Elizabethtown * Elizabethtown, Pa. 3:30 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Drew * Madison, N.J. 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 Susquehanna * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 10 at Dickinson Carlisle, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 14 at Juniata * Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 17 at Elmira Elmira, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Goucher * Baltimore, Pa. 3:30 PM
Sat. 28 Catholic * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Challenging schedule for a team that lost some key players. The 5 game stretch of @Kings, @Cortland, @Mis, Lyco, and Fords is difficult and will make or break the non-conference record for them. Throwing in @Dickinson is another tough opponent. If I had to guess right now, without knowing what they are bringing in yet, I'd venture with 9-5-2 range.
8-8-1 is my prediction. That's a tough schedule and the conference is no pushover. I can see losses to Cortland, Misericordia, Lycoming, Haverford, Etown, Dickinson, and then 2 other conference games such as Catholic, Susquehanna, or Drew.
Is E-Town your prediction for the pre-season poll or do you give the nod to Scranton after back to backs.
Not sure if this is directed at me or MAF but I believe Etown has to be the favorite with Waso in the line-up. 8-8-1 is probably a little harsh after rethinking it. Probably more closer to 9-6-2 like MAF said although I think he missed a game. Will be curious to see their incoming class and how they handle a tough schedule with a relatively young group.
Here is Messiah's schedule from their website...
Messiah College
2017 Men's Soccer Schedule
Date Opponent Location Time
9/1/2017 Chapman University Fredericksburg, VA 2:30 PM
9/2/2017 University of Mary Washington Fredericksburg, VA 5:00 PM
9/6/2017 Haverford College Haverford, PA 5:00 PM
9/9/2017 Montclair State University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/13/2017 Dickinson College Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/16/2017 College of Mount Saint Vincent Riverdale, NY 7:00 PM
9/20/2017 York College of Pennsylvania York, PA 7:00 PM
9/23/2017 Misericordia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/27/2017 Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA 7:30 PM
9/30/2017 Conference Game Alvernia University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
10/3/2017 Conference Game Albright College Reading, PA 7:00 PM
10/5/2017 Johns Hopkins University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/11/2017 Conference Game Arcadia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/14/2017 Conference Game Widener University Chester, PA 5:00 PM
10/17/2017 Conference Game Lycoming College Williamsport, PA 3:30 PM
10/21/2017 Conference Game Lebanon Valley College Grantham, PA 6:00 PM
10/25/2017 Conference Game Hood College Frederick, MD 7:00 PM
10/28/2017 Conference Game Stevenson University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on June 17, 2017, 04:58:26 PM
Here is Messiah's schedule from their website...
Messiah College
2017 Men's Soccer Schedule
Date Opponent Location Time
9/1/2017 Chapman University Fredericksburg, VA 2:30 PM
9/2/2017 University of Mary Washington Fredericksburg, VA 5:00 PM
9/6/2017 Haverford College Haverford, PA 5:00 PM
9/9/2017 Montclair State University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/13/2017 Dickinson College Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/16/2017 College of Mount Saint Vincent Riverdale, NY 7:00 PM
9/20/2017 York College of Pennsylvania York, PA 7:00 PM
9/23/2017 Misericordia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/27/2017 Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA 7:30 PM
9/30/2017 Conference Game Alvernia University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
10/3/2017 Conference Game Albright College Reading, PA 7:00 PM
10/5/2017 Johns Hopkins University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/11/2017 Conference Game Arcadia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/14/2017 Conference Game Widener University Chester, PA 5:00 PM
10/17/2017 Conference Game Lycoming College Williamsport, PA 3:30 PM
10/21/2017 Conference Game Lebanon Valley College Grantham, PA 6:00 PM
10/25/2017 Conference Game Hood College Frederick, MD 7:00 PM
10/28/2017 Conference Game Stevenson University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
Strong Non-conference schedule. However, could potentially see Messiah entering the post season national tournament undefeated (with a tie or two).
One Top 25 team from last year's final poll:Haverford #18
Four NCAA Tournament teams:Haverford - 2nd round loss
Chapman - second round loss to Trinity 2-0 (Trinity then lost to Kenyon 4-0)
Montclair - first round loss to Christopher Newport 5-1
Elizabethtown - 2nd round loss to Rutgers-Newark 2-0 (Rutgers then lost to Brandeis 4-2)
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 13, 2017, 11:13:43 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on June 06, 2017, 01:23:50 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 06, 2017, 09:51:38 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on June 06, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Here is Scranton's schedule..
DATE OPPONENT NOTES RESULT STATUS LINKS
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 Centenary (N.J.) Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 2 Allegheny Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:00 PM
Live stats
Wed. 6 at King's (Pa.) Wilkes-Barre Township, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 9 at Cortland St. Cortland, N.Y. TBA
Tue. 12 at Misericordia Dallas, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 16 Lycoming Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 20 Haverford Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:30 PM
Live stats
Sat. 23 Moravian * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Wed. 27 Wilkes Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 7:00 PM
Live stats
Sat. 30 at Elizabethtown * Elizabethtown, Pa. 3:30 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Drew * Madison, N.J. 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 Susquehanna * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 10 at Dickinson Carlisle, Pa. 7:00 PM
Sat. 14 at Juniata * Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 PM
Tue. 17 at Elmira Elmira, N.Y. 3:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Goucher * Baltimore, Pa. 3:30 PM
Sat. 28 Catholic * Fitzpatrick Field, Scranton, Pa. 3:30 PM
Live stats
Challenging schedule for a team that lost some key players. The 5 game stretch of @Kings, @Cortland, @Mis, Lyco, and Fords is difficult and will make or break the non-conference record for them. Throwing in @Dickinson is another tough opponent. If I had to guess right now, without knowing what they are bringing in yet, I'd venture with 9-5-2 range.
8-8-1 is my prediction. That's a tough schedule and the conference is no pushover. I can see losses to Cortland, Misericordia, Lycoming, Haverford, Etown, Dickinson, and then 2 other conference games such as Catholic, Susquehanna, or Drew.
Is E-Town your prediction for the pre-season poll or do you give the nod to Scranton after back to backs.
Not sure if this is directed at me or MAF but I believe Etown has to be the favorite with Waso in the line-up. 8-8-1 is probably a little harsh after rethinking it. Probably more closer to 9-6-2 like MAF said although I think he missed a game. Will be curious to see their incoming class and how they handle a tough schedule with a relatively young group.
Ha thanks for the follow up, it was to whomever was willing to respond. I think Etown lost a little, but you are right with Waso in the lineup...
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on June 18, 2017, 06:53:35 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on June 17, 2017, 04:58:26 PM
Here is Messiah's schedule from their website...
Messiah College
2017 Men's Soccer Schedule
Date Opponent Location Time
9/1/2017 Chapman University Fredericksburg, VA 2:30 PM
9/2/2017 University of Mary Washington Fredericksburg, VA 5:00 PM
9/6/2017 Haverford College Haverford, PA 5:00 PM
9/9/2017 Montclair State University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/13/2017 Dickinson College Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/16/2017 College of Mount Saint Vincent Riverdale, NY 7:00 PM
9/20/2017 York College of Pennsylvania York, PA 7:00 PM
9/23/2017 Misericordia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/27/2017 Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA 7:30 PM
9/30/2017 Conference Game Alvernia University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
10/3/2017 Conference Game Albright College Reading, PA 7:00 PM
10/5/2017 Johns Hopkins University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/11/2017 Conference Game Arcadia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/14/2017 Conference Game Widener University Chester, PA 5:00 PM
10/17/2017 Conference Game Lycoming College Williamsport, PA 3:30 PM
10/21/2017 Conference Game Lebanon Valley College Grantham, PA 6:00 PM
10/25/2017 Conference Game Hood College Frederick, MD 7:00 PM
10/28/2017 Conference Game Stevenson University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
Strong Non-conference schedule. However, could potentially see Messiah entering the post season national tournament undefeated (with a tie or two).
One Top 25 team from last year's final poll:
Haverford #18
Four NCAA Tournament teams:
Haverford - 2nd round loss
Chapman - second round loss to Trinity 2-0 (Trinity then lost to Kenyon 4-0)
Montclair - first round loss to Christopher Newport 5-1
Elizabethtown - 2nd round loss to Rutgers-Newark 2-0 (Rutgers then lost to Brandeis 4-2)
Not easy to get to tournament with no losses..but I hope you are right! Would be nice to get back to the final 4 this year. Would rather have losses during regular season and go deep into tournament.
Rowan University Athletics
2017 Schedule
Current Record
Overall Pct. Streak Home Away Neutral
0 - 0 .000 --- 0 - 0 0 - 0 0 - 0
Date Opponent Location Time/Result Live Stats Live Audio Live Video Details
Gilmore Alumni Classic
Fri. 9/1/2017 Rutgers-Camden vs. Lycoming College Glassboro, NJ 5:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Fri. 9/1/2017 Keystone College Glassboro, NJ 7:30 p.m. Live Stats Details
Sat. 9/2/2017 Rutgers-Camden vs. Keystone College Glassboro, NJ 5:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Sat. 9/2/2017 Lycoming College Glassboro, NJ 7:30 p.m. Live Stats Details
Wed. 9/6/2017 Albright College Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Cialella Soccer Classic
Sat. 9/9/2017 Christopher Newport University Camden, NJ 2:00 p.m. Details
Sun. 9/10/2017 Frostburg State University Camden, NJ 2:00 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/13/2017 Hood College Glassboro, NJ 6:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Sat. 9/16/2017 * New Jersey City University Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Wed. 9/20/2017 Franklin and Marshall College Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Sat. 9/23/2017 * William Paterson University Wayne, NJ 5:30 p.m. Live Stats Details
Wed. 9/27/2017 * Stockton University Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Sat. 9/30/2017 * Kean University Union, NJ 1:00 p.m. Details
Tue. 10/3/2017 Muhlenberg College Allentown, PA 7:00 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/7/2017 * Montclair State University Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Wed. 10/11/2017 * Rutgers-Camden Camden, NJ 7:00 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/14/2017 * Rutgers-Newark Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Mon. 10/16/2017 Brooklyn College Brooklyn, NY 5:00 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/21/2017 * Ramapo College Mahwah, NJ 12:30 p.m. Details
Wed. 10/25/2017 * The College of New Jersey Glassboro, NJ 7:00 p.m. Live Stats Details
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on June 17, 2017, 04:58:26 PM
Here is Messiah's schedule from their website...
Messiah College
2017 Men's Soccer Schedule
Date Opponent Location Time
9/1/2017 Chapman University Fredericksburg, VA 2:30 PM
9/2/2017 University of Mary Washington Fredericksburg, VA 5:00 PM
9/6/2017 Haverford College Haverford, PA 5:00 PM
9/9/2017 Montclair State University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/13/2017 Dickinson College Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/16/2017 College of Mount Saint Vincent Riverdale, NY 7:00 PM
9/20/2017 York College of Pennsylvania York, PA 7:00 PM
9/23/2017 Misericordia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
9/27/2017 Elizabethtown College Elizabethtown, PA 7:30 PM
9/30/2017 Conference Game Alvernia University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
10/3/2017 Conference Game Albright College Reading, PA 7:00 PM
10/5/2017 Johns Hopkins University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/11/2017 Conference Game Arcadia University Grantham, PA 7:00 PM
10/14/2017 Conference Game Widener University Chester, PA 5:00 PM
10/17/2017 Conference Game Lycoming College Williamsport, PA 3:30 PM
10/21/2017 Conference Game Lebanon Valley College Grantham, PA 6:00 PM
10/25/2017 Conference Game Hood College Frederick, MD 7:00 PM
10/28/2017 Conference Game Stevenson University Grantham, PA 7:30 PM
Falcons will be tested but should fly by with ease. I see them going around 15-1-2. They should be ranked top 5 nationally throughout the year and most likely be the #1 team in this region again.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on June 06, 2017, 05:32:05 PM
HAVERFORD 2017 SCHEDULE
SEPTEMBER
Fri. 1 at Cabrini, TBA
Wed. 6 Messiah, 5:00 PM
Sat. 9 vs. Elizabethtown @ Eastern (Jimmy Mills Tournament), TBA
Sun. 10 Catholic (Jimmy Mills Tournament), 1:00 PM
Wed. 13 Stevens, 5:00 PM
Sat. 16 at Johns Hopkins*, 7:00 PM
Wed. 20 at Scranton, 7:30 PM
Sat. 23 Franklin & Marshall*, 2:00 PM
Wed. 27 at Muhlenberg*, 7:00 PM
Sat. 30 at Gettysburg*, 7:00 PM
OCTOBER
Wed. 4 at Rutgers-Camden, 7:00 PM
Sat. 7 McDaniel*, 2:00 PM
Wed. 11 at Drew, 7:30 PM
Sat. 14 at Washington College*, 4:00 PM
Wed. 18 Ursinus*, 4:00 PM
Sat. 21 at Dickinson*, 4:00 PM
Sat. 28 Swarthmore*, 3:30 PM
Non-conference slate includes Messiah, E-town, Stevens, Rutgers-Camden and Scranton on top of a very competitive Centennial Conference schedule. As their release stated, they "will play each of the other top six teams in last year's NCAA Mid-Atlantic Region rankings and seven of the top nine."
Big early test for both Messiah and Haverford on 9/6. Hope/assume this means Haverford coming to Grantham in 2018.
Feeling full of predictions in the early off-season...lets go with this for the Fords
12-4-1 range? 11-3-3? Somewhere in that area would be my best guess. Losses to Messiah, F&M, the likes of any other conference foe and maybe Stevens? Haverford tends to find a way through a difficult schedule over the past few years so I see no difference this upcoming fall.
Quote from: NJrexSoccer03 on June 07, 2017, 10:34:26 AM
Etown's Schedule
Fri. 9/1/2017 Morrisville State Elizabethtown, Pa.
Sat. 9/2/2017 William Paterson Elizabethtown, Pa.
Jimmy Mills Tournament
Sat. 9/9/2017 Haverford St. Davids, Pa. - Eastern University TBA Details
Sun. 9/10/2017 Eastern Haverford, Pa. - Haverford College 3:30 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/13/2017 Franklin & Marshall Lancaster, Pa. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 9/16/2017 Penn State Harrisburg Middletown, Pa. 1 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/20/2017 Alvernia Reading, Pa. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 9/23/2017 Conference Game Drew Madison, N.J. 4 p.m. Details
Wed. 9/27/2017 Messiah Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7:30 p.m. Details
Sat. 9/30/2017 Conference Game Scranton Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Wed. 10/4/2017 Conference Game Moravian Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/7/2017 Conference Game Catholic Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Thu. 10/12/2017 Penn State Berks Reading, Pa. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/14/2017 Conference Game Goucher Towson, Md. 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/21/2017 Conference Game Susquehanna Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 4:30 p.m. Details
Wed. 10/25/2017 Muhlenberg Elizabethtown, Pa. - Ira R. Herr Field 7 p.m. Details
Sat. 10/28/2017 Conference Game Juniata Huntingdon, Pa. 3:30 p.m. Details
Once again Etown has a lack luster, not overly challenging schedule...
Should be around 12-3-2 if all goes well in my estimation.
As for the overall shape of the region I see it shaping up with some regulars by the end of the year. Here is my preseason best guesses for the regional rankings.
1. Messiah
2. F&M
3. Fords
4. Misericordia
5. Etown
6. Lycoming
7. Hopkins
8. Eastern
9. Scranton
10. Dickinson
HM: Drew, Kings, Gettysburg, Muhles, Leb Val,
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 28, 2017, 01:43:02 PM
As for the overall shape of the region I see it shaping up with some regulars by the end of the year. Here is my preseason best guesses for the regional rankings.
1. Messiah
2. F&M
3. Fords
4. Misericordia
5. Etown
6. Lycoming
7. Hopkins
8. Eastern
9. Scranton
10. Dickinson
HM: Drew, Kings, Gettysburg, Muhles, Leb Val,
I like the list MAF. I agree with most of it. I'd go something like this at the moment...
Rank---Team---2016 Record
1. Messiah (19-1-3)
2. Fords (14-3-4)
3. F&M (15-4-4)
4. Etown (14-4-2)
5. Hopkins (12-3-3)
6. Misericordia (12-5-2)
7. Leb Val (18-4-0)
8. Scranton (15-4-1)
9. Eastern (15-4-3)
10. Lycoming (9-6-4)
RV: Drew (13-6-3, Gettysburg (9-4-3), Dickinson (8-8-2), Kings (9-8-2)
Obviously my gut tells me it won't end up anywhere near this. Once the non-conference schedule is done we should have a better idea of where teams stand going into conference and rankings season. Should be another competitive year in this region.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on July 05, 2017, 04:49:38 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on June 28, 2017, 01:43:02 PM
As for the overall shape of the region I see it shaping up with some regulars by the end of the year. Here is my preseason best guesses for the regional rankings.
1. Messiah
2. F&M
3. Fords
4. Misericordia
5. Etown
6. Lycoming
7. Hopkins
8. Eastern
9. Scranton
10. Dickinson
HM: Drew, Kings, Gettysburg, Muhles, Leb Val,
I like the list MAF. I agree with most of it. I'd go something like this at the moment...
Rank---Team---2016 Record
1. Messiah (19-1-3)
2. Fords (14-3-4)
3. F&M (15-4-4)
4. Etown (14-4-2)
5. Hopkins (12-3-3)
6. Misericordia (12-5-2)
7. Leb Val (18-4-0)
8. Scranton (15-4-1)
9. Eastern (15-4-3)
10. Lycoming (9-6-4)
RV: Drew (13-6-3, Gettysburg (9-4-3), Dickinson (8-8-2), Kings (9-8-2)
Obviously my gut tells me it won't end up anywhere near this. Once the non-conference schedule is done we should have a better idea of where teams stand going into conference and rankings season. Should be another competitive year in this region.
Respectable. I think that's a good possibility of shaping up that way. I went for more on what I believe will happen this upcoming fall without reading too much into last season's records and historical play. Always enjoy your posts Shooter!
Just noticed Hopkins is playing 4 games in 8 days starting Sept 30th...Why would you do that to your team? That is how injuries happen fast...They have
9/30 Muhles
10/2 Stevenson
10/5 at Messiah
10/7 at Swarthmore
That is also 2 conference games sprinkled in with Messiah and Stevenson. Isn't Stevenson the team that sits 10 deep against better teams?
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
http://athletics.misericordia.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Misericordia finally releases their schedule for 2017 and it is no cupcake! Difficult stretch of Scranton, @Salisbury, @Rutgers-Camden, @Messiah, @Lycoming, @Kings, and Dickinson. That 7 game stretch may be as tough as any in this region not to mention they also play @Rochester and home vs Lebanon Valley before this and travel to conference rival Eastern later in the season.
This could go all sorts of ways but my best ballpark prediction for the Cougars would be something around 11-4-3 range. Maybe 10-6-2. I see them reaching double digit wins again but barely. 4 losses is a best case scenario. 10-6-2 seems more reasonable to me considering the difficulty of their schedule. 11-4-3 would without a doubt get them an at-large bid in my estimation no matter what other teams around the region do.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
Although Stevenson does tend to sit in verse good teams and can be tough to break down I don't anticipate JHU expending too much energy verse them but 4 games in 8 days is tough no matter who you face.
As for Messiah, with two mid-week games, the one is Albright. With Messiah's depth and massive rotations from the bench I don't think they will get too worn down with having to face Albright during that week. It's nice scheduling by McCarty though for putting this game right after facing the worst conference opponent. Obviously the conference schedule is set in advance and it may have just worked out this way for Messiah but interesting scheduling in both instances nonetheless.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on July 10, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
http://athletics.misericordia.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Misericordia finally releases their schedule for 2017 and it is no cupcake! Difficult stretch of Scranton, @Salisbury, @Rutgers-Camden, @Messiah, @Lycoming, @Kings, and Dickinson. That 7 game stretch may be as tough as any in this region not to mention they also play @Rochester and home vs Lebanon Valley before this and travel to conference rival Eastern later in the season.
This could go all sorts of ways but my best ballpark prediction for the Cougars would be something around 11-4-3 range. Maybe 10-6-2. I see them reaching double digit wins again but barely. 4 losses is a best case scenario. 10-6-2 seems more reasonable to me considering the difficulty of their schedule. 11-4-3 would without a doubt get them an at-large bid in my estimation no matter what other teams around the region do.
why so high on Miseri? Coach?
Quote from: NEPAFAN on July 11, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on July 10, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
http://athletics.misericordia.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Misericordia finally releases their schedule for 2017 and it is no cupcake! Difficult stretch of Scranton, @Salisbury, @Rutgers-Camden, @Messiah, @Lycoming, @Kings, and Dickinson. That 7 game stretch may be as tough as any in this region not to mention they also play @Rochester and home vs Lebanon Valley before this and travel to conference rival Eastern later in the season.
This could go all sorts of ways but my best ballpark prediction for the Cougars would be something around 11-4-3 range. Maybe 10-6-2. I see them reaching double digit wins again but barely. 4 losses is a best case scenario. 10-6-2 seems more reasonable to me considering the difficulty of their schedule. 11-4-3 would without a doubt get them an at-large bid in my estimation no matter what other teams around the region do.
why so high on Miseri? Coach?
Like Scranton, they lose a pretty big Senior class with 9 departing, but only 4 were active contributors to last year's success. I believe the coach has done a good job recruiting since he has taken over and they were a tough out for a lot of teams last fall.
Last season they went 12-5-3. Losses were @Leb Val, @Arcadia, @Scranton, @Dickinson, Eastern, tied Messiah and @Susquehanna, and tied (lost in PK's) to Eastern in the conference final. Quality wins included York, Rutgers-Camden, Lycoming, and Kings. With a similar upcoming schedule and most likely another good recruiting class I don't see why they can't do about the same as last year. I think 10-6-2 is realistic for them with a large part of that being the conference they are in. Scranton has a challenging non-conference schedule PLUS a tough conference schedule whereas Misericordia has a slightly weaker conference than that of the Royals.
If they crank out 6 wins in conference again that is over half way to 10 or 11 total wins and they can afford to drop a few of the tougher non-conference games and still be in the mix for at-large bid qualification. What are your thoughts on Misericordia NEPA? That's a local rivalry with Scranton correct?
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on July 11, 2017, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on July 11, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on July 10, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
http://athletics.misericordia.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Misericordia finally releases their schedule for 2017 and it is no cupcake! Difficult stretch of Scranton, @Salisbury, @Rutgers-Camden, @Messiah, @Lycoming, @Kings, and Dickinson. That 7 game stretch may be as tough as any in this region not to mention they also play @Rochester and home vs Lebanon Valley before this and travel to conference rival Eastern later in the season.
This could go all sorts of ways but my best ballpark prediction for the Cougars would be something around 11-4-3 range. Maybe 10-6-2. I see them reaching double digit wins again but barely. 4 losses is a best case scenario. 10-6-2 seems more reasonable to me considering the difficulty of their schedule. 11-4-3 would without a doubt get them an at-large bid in my estimation no matter what other teams around the region do.
why so high on Miseri? Coach?
Like Scranton, they lose a pretty big Senior class with 9 departing, but only 4 were active contributors to last year's success. I believe the coach has done a good job recruiting since he has taken over and they were a tough out for a lot of teams last fall.
Last season they went 12-5-3. Losses were @Leb Val, @Arcadia, @Scranton, @Dickinson, Eastern, tied Messiah and @Susquehanna, and tied (lost in PK's) to Eastern in the conference final. Quality wins included York, Rutgers-Camden, Lycoming, and Kings. With a similar upcoming schedule and most likely another good recruiting class I don't see why they can't do about the same as last year. I think 10-6-2 is realistic for them with a large part of that being the conference they are in. Scranton has a challenging non-conference schedule PLUS a tough conference schedule whereas Misericordia has a slightly weaker conference than that of the Royals.
If they crank out 6 wins in conference again that is over half way to 10 or 11 total wins and they can afford to drop a few of the tougher non-conference games and still be in the mix for at-large bid qualification. What are your thoughts on Misericordia NEPA? That's a local rivalry with Scranton correct?
Agree with everything you said and wasn't try to complain with your thoughts about Scranton vs. Miseri. It seems like only a few years ago that Scranton was plodding along with an constant under .500 record. So this is gravy.
Bigger rivalry now with the student vs the teacher aspect to it for sure. The Miseri coach is also coaching the Electric City Shock who have a mix of d1-3 talent on the roster. Re: Schedule It is also the first time that Kings has played Scranton in a long time.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on July 11, 2017, 04:02:18 PM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on July 11, 2017, 01:59:35 PM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on July 11, 2017, 09:29:59 AM
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on July 10, 2017, 08:29:24 AM
http://athletics.misericordia.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Misericordia finally releases their schedule for 2017 and it is no cupcake! Difficult stretch of Scranton, @Salisbury, @Rutgers-Camden, @Messiah, @Lycoming, @Kings, and Dickinson. That 7 game stretch may be as tough as any in this region not to mention they also play @Rochester and home vs Lebanon Valley before this and travel to conference rival Eastern later in the season.
This could go all sorts of ways but my best ballpark prediction for the Cougars would be something around 11-4-3 range. Maybe 10-6-2. I see them reaching double digit wins again but barely. 4 losses is a best case scenario. 10-6-2 seems more reasonable to me considering the difficulty of their schedule. 11-4-3 would without a doubt get them an at-large bid in my estimation no matter what other teams around the region do.
why so high on Miseri? Coach?
Like Scranton, they lose a pretty big Senior class with 9 departing, but only 4 were active contributors to last year's success. I believe the coach has done a good job recruiting since he has taken over and they were a tough out for a lot of teams last fall.
Last season they went 12-5-3. Losses were @Leb Val, @Arcadia, @Scranton, @Dickinson, Eastern, tied Messiah and @Susquehanna, and tied (lost in PK's) to Eastern in the conference final. Quality wins included York, Rutgers-Camden, Lycoming, and Kings. With a similar upcoming schedule and most likely another good recruiting class I don't see why they can't do about the same as last year. I think 10-6-2 is realistic for them with a large part of that being the conference they are in. Scranton has a challenging non-conference schedule PLUS a tough conference schedule whereas Misericordia has a slightly weaker conference than that of the Royals.
If they crank out 6 wins in conference again that is over half way to 10 or 11 total wins and they can afford to drop a few of the tougher non-conference games and still be in the mix for at-large bid qualification. What are your thoughts on Misericordia NEPA? That's a local rivalry with Scranton correct?
Agree with everything you said and wasn't try to complain with your thoughts about Scranton vs. Miseri. It seems like only a few years ago that Scranton was plodding along with an constant under .500 record. So this is gravy.
Bigger rivalry now with the student vs the teacher aspect to it for sure. The Miseri coach is also coaching the Electric City Shock who have a mix of d1-3 talent on the roster. Re: Schedule It is also the first time that Kings has played Scranton in a long time.
Yes it didn't even occur to me that the coach vs mentor factor adds to the rivalry now! Kings has been slowly declining in recent years so I am curious to see how they shape up this fall. They never play a challenging schedule so games like Scranton are ones that intrigue me. Has anyone mentioned the Kings schedule in this thread yet? It is awfully light compared to others in the region.
Kings 2017 ScheduleAllegheny
Centenary
Scranton
@Juniata
@Wells
@New Paltz
@Cabrini
@Widener
Alvernia
Misericordia
Penn College
Manhattanville
@Wilkes
@Del Val
Eastern
DeSales
Elmira
@FDU-Florham
If they don't win at least 11 games that's a huge disappointment and even if they put up 15 wins I can't see them having a strong enough SOS or RvR to get an at-large bid. Looks like conference AQ or bust to me. 9-8-2 with a similar schedule last season. Wouldn't be surprised to see that range again this year.
Scranton and Misericordia should be battling it out for top dog in that Wilkes-Barre/Scranton area. Kings is way off in the distance compared to these two programs. Marywood is probably next in line after that then Wilkes.
To comment on Kings schedule for this upcoming fall, I see them performing similarly to last season. I will spot them at 9-7-2.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
Urban legend over the years is that some coaches/schools do no like to play early Saturday games.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on July 15, 2017, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
Urban legend over the years is that some coaches/schools do no like to play early Saturday games.
What's an early Saturday game? Most coaches wouldn't mind a 1 pm Saturday game correct?
Quote from: SoccerFan2017 on July 15, 2017, 10:02:11 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on July 15, 2017, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
Urban legend over the years is that some coaches/schools do no like to play early Saturday games.
What's an early Saturday game? Most coaches wouldn't mind a 1 pm Saturday game correct?
I'd think that some away teams might have issue with that.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on July 16, 2017, 02:33:28 PM
Quote from: SoccerFan2017 on July 15, 2017, 10:02:11 PM
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on July 15, 2017, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
Urban legend over the years is that some coaches/schools do no like to play early Saturday games.
What's an early Saturday game? Most coaches wouldn't mind a 1 pm Saturday game correct?
I'd think that some away teams might have issue with that.
As a player I never liked having a Saturday game at 7 pm/evening. Too much sitting around.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on July 15, 2017, 06:52:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on July 07, 2017, 12:57:49 PM
That is peculiar. When I first saw the schedules, the Messiah-Hopkins match struck me as odd from the Messiah perspective as it was a second mid-week game (away at Albright on Tuesday) without any game that weekend. The Stevenson-Hopkins match is one of those rare Monday matches, but Stevenson's preceding weekend game is on Friday night instead of Saturday, so two days off which is normal. For Hopkins, however, that 8 day stretch is asking a lot. How far in advance do conferences finalize their schedules? Makes me wonder if Hopkins had agreements in principle to play Messiah and Stevenson this year, but then when the Commonwealth and Centennial schedules came out it then made that difficult. Or maybe more likely, the chance to add Messiah to their schedule came along but they were still on the hook for the home game of their home-and-away with Stevenson and decided to squeeze the game in rather than take a pass on strengthening their schedule.
BTW, I noticed that Stevenson is playing two home conference matches on Friday night instead of Saturday, something they haven't done in past seasons. Both the women's soccer team and the football team are also at home those weekends and all play in the same stadium, but it's turf and the football team plays midday on Saturdays and the women play 4:30 or 5 pm on Saturday those weekends.
Urban legend over the years is that some coaches/schools do no like to play early Saturday games.
I wasn't thinking of them trying to play before the football game on Saturday (which would mean 9 a.m. and 10 a.m. game times), but rather simply playing night games after the women's games.
Could be that the Athletic support staff don't want to do 12 hour days. Trainers, site coordinators, SID's all have very brutal schedules.
My guess is they try to avoid having all home games line up like that on any particular weekend, but for whatever reason the schedule lined up like that.
Here are the links to schedules for some notable schools around the region:
http://gomessiah.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://athletics.scranton.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
http://athletics.lycoming.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://www.gosusqu.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
http://www.cuacardinals.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
http://www.etownbluejays.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://www.goeasterneagles.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://haverfordathletics.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
http://athletics.misericordia.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://www.gettysburgsports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://www.dickinsonathletics.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
http://www.godiplomats.com/sports/m-soccer/2017-18/schedule
http://www.godutchmen.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://muhlenbergsports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
http://www.swarthmoreathletics.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
I have heard that some teams cut a lot of players before the season begins. Is this so? Why would they recruit and bring in for 2 weeks preseason just to do this? I can see an isolated case but I was told happens all the time
Quote from: franklyspeaking on August 13, 2017, 08:54:33 AM
I have heard that some teams cut a lot of players before the season begins. Is this so? Why would they recruit and bring in for 2 weeks preseason just to do this? I can see an isolated case but I was told happens all the time
D3 soccer is tryout soccer. Anyone who wants to try out is allowed to. This inevitably results in more players trying out than there are available spots on the roster. Therefore, some prospective players are cut at the end of the tryout phase of the preseason. This is seldom an entire two weeks.
As to your question about recruits, it would be somewhat unusual for a coach to cut an actual recruit. Typically, a player that a coach truly "recruits" will make the team at least for his freshman season. On the other hand, unrecruited freshman tryouts would not necessarily receive the same degree of protection. At the end of the day, the coach is trying to build the strongest possible roster.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on August 13, 2017, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: franklyspeaking on August 13, 2017, 08:54:33 AM
I have heard that some teams cut a lot of players before the season begins. Is this so? Why would they recruit and bring in for 2 weeks preseason just to do this? I can see an isolated case but I was told happens all the time
D3 soccer is tryout soccer. Anyone who wants to try out is allowed to. This inevitably results in more players trying out than there are available spots on the roster. Therefore, some prospective players are cut at the end of the tryout phase of the preseason. This is seldom an entire two weeks.
As to your question about recruits, it would be somewhat unusual for a coach to cut an actual recruit. Typically, a player that a coach truly "recruits" will make the team at least for his freshman season. On the other hand, unrecruited freshman tryouts would not necessarily receive the same degree of protection. At the end of the day, the coach is trying to build the strongest possible roster.
While some teams may have pre-season "tryouts", others stick strictly with their recruits and do not allow for tryouts in the Fall.
Can someone who played or whose kids are already in a D3 program present information on a typical pre-season routine. Will the fitness test happen the first day of pre-season? what happens on day 2? will it be all fitness focused or will there be soccer training as well. Do D3 players train once a day? In the morning or evening? Thanks.
I can only speak for the Division 3 program I coached in
Typically it would be:
First session: fitness test
Second session: some sort of evaluation, 3v3 small sided stuff
Third session: scrimmage for 60 minutes or so.
After the first day we jumped into more tactical and technical work. We usually trained twice a day. A couple days we would train three times, but we would really dial back the sessions and spend a lot of time on defensive shape, or other important tactical stuff.
We typically had very few walk ons so that first day gave us enough time to evaluate and make a decision.
@luckylefty, thanks.
Quote from: sokermom on August 13, 2017, 08:09:44 PM
Can someone who played or whose kids are already in a D3 program present information on a typical pre-season routine. Will the fitness test happen the first day of pre-season? what happens on day 2? will it be all fitness focused or will there be soccer training as well. Do D3 players train once a day? In the morning or evening? Thanks.
Son plays for a D3 State School program in MA. First day for them is typically check in to the dorms, team meeting, fitness testing and scrimmage. They'll start 2 a days the following day, and do that for a week to 10 days, schedule a couple of scrimmages, and continue the doubles on days they're not scrimmaging. Regular practice schedule starts on the 1st day of classes.
Quote from: stillwatching on August 14, 2017, 01:06:05 PM
Quote from: sokermom on August 13, 2017, 08:09:44 PM
Can someone who played or whose kids are already in a D3 program present information on a typical pre-season routine. Will the fitness test happen the first day of pre-season? what happens on day 2? will it be all fitness focused or will there be soccer training as well. Do D3 players train once a day? In the morning or evening? Thanks.
Son plays for a D3 State School program in MA. First day for them is typically check in to the dorms, team meeting, fitness testing and scrimmage. They'll start 2 a days the following day, and do that for a week to 10 days, schedule a couple of scrimmages, and continue the doubles on days they're not scrimmaging. Regular practice schedule starts on the 1st day of classes.
Thanks. One last question. The two mile or three mile test...is it done one mile at a time or all two/three miles without stopping after each mile? I googled but can't seem to find this information anywhere.
Most of the mileage timed running tests are done in one run.
I have never heard of stopping between miles, but you never know....
For my D3 kid, Day 1 was move in, meeting with trainer, baseline concussion testing, team meetings. Day 2 started bright and early with fitness test, and then the rest of pre-season was all soccer, two-a-days, with several scrimmages with local area teams.
Quote from: Madared on August 15, 2017, 12:09:17 PM
Most of the mileage timed running tests are done in one run.
I have never heard of stopping between miles, but you never know....
My understanding is that RPI's test is a two mile run in 12 minutes followed by a 15 minute break, then a one mile run in six minutes.
OK. Son reported back from first day fitness test. He did his 2 miles in 12:33. Only 6 players did under 12. He said he beat all freshmen. He is recovering from an ankle sprain and didn't get clearance to run until two weeks ago. So this is not bad. Those with knowledge of D3 programs is this good or coach views this as "the kid didn't put in the work in summer"? Just a worried mom.
Quote from: sokermom on August 18, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
OK. Son reported back from first day fitness test. He did his 2 miles in 12:33. Only 6 players did under 12. He said he beat all freshmen. He is recovering from an ankle sprain and didn't get clearance to run until two weeks ago. So this is not bad. Those with knowledge of D3 programs is this good or coach views this as "the kid didn't put in the work in summer"? Just a worried mom.
What are you worried about exactly? Sounds like everything is going fine.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on August 18, 2017, 09:53:28 AM
Quote from: sokermom on August 18, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
OK. Son reported back from first day fitness test. He did his 2 miles in 12:33. Only 6 players did under 12. He said he beat all freshmen. He is recovering from an ankle sprain and didn't get clearance to run until two weeks ago. So this is not bad. Those with knowledge of D3 programs is this good or coach views this as "the kid didn't put in the work in summer"? Just a worried mom.
What are you worried about exactly? Sounds like everything is going fine.
12:33 is good for a Freshperson.
Now he just has to compete and make early impression in preseason when playing games and practices.
The timed run is simply a measure of aerobic fitness coming into the preseason. Most coaches have their own individual and subjective view of the relative importance of each athlete's performance. Established star players (returning sophomores, juniors and seniors who have already played at a high level) tend to be treated with a little more leniency than do non-established players.
Incoming freshmen can be all over the map, but it's generally taken by the coach as an encouraging sign when a freshman arrives at a good level of fitness, which it sounds like Sokermom's son is. Nonetheless, the individual player's skill level and competitiveness on the field will be weighed far more heavily than fitness when it comes to playing time, etc.
Quote from: Saint of Old on August 18, 2017, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: NEPAFAN on August 18, 2017, 09:53:28 AM
Quote from: sokermom on August 18, 2017, 09:39:39 AM
OK. Son reported back from first day fitness test. He did his 2 miles in 12:33. Only 6 players did under 12. He said he beat all freshmen. He is recovering from an ankle sprain and didn't get clearance to run until two weeks ago. So this is not bad. Those with knowledge of D3 programs is this good or coach views this as "the kid didn't put in the work in summer"? Just a worried mom.
What are you worried about exactly? Sounds like everything is going fine.
12:33 is good for a Freshperson.
Now he just has to compete and make early impression in preseason when playing games and practices.
Agreed with Saint of Old on this one. For a frosh 12:33 is acceptable but if only 6 players beat 12:00 this teams fitness is NOT great. Either the players slacked this off-season or there have been serious injuries. Ideally, every player should beat 12 except Frosh and GK's. This team might need 2-3 weeks to get into playing shape so do not be surprised if this team struggles early. I will say the coach will be very disappointed with only 6 players beating 12. Saint of Old is also correct that now he needs to prove himself on the field....I'll offer 1 free piece of advice...If you want to really stand out as a Frosh and open the coaches eyes besides proving he is a skilled player against the upperclassman....CRUNCHING TACKLE......If your kid STICKS an upperclassman, tackles not injures, and repeats it that will show the coach his toughness and show him that your son is a tough, physical kid that is not afraid of anyone on the field.
@Saint of the Old, @truenorth, @mr. right, thanks for the feedback. Noted and got it.