Round 2
Chicago
Dubuque
DePauw
Redlands
Carthage
UW-W
St. Thomas
Luther
------------------------
Rowan
Tufts
Fords
UMass-Boston
Trinity
Texas-Dallas
Lynchburg
Kenyon
------------------------
Amherst
Worcester St
Babson
Brandeis
Newark
Vassar
Oneonta
Rochester
------------------------
Messiah
Montclair
OWU
Calvin
Cortland
Scranton
F&M
SLU
Sweet 16
Chicago
DePauw
Carthage
Luther
------------------
Rowan
UMass-Boston
Trinity
Kenyon
------------------
Amherst
Brandeis
Newark
Oneonta
------------------
Messiah
Calvin
Cortland
SLU
Elite 8
Chicago
Carthage
---------------
Rowan
Trinity
---------------
Amherst
Newark
---------------
Messiah
SLU
Final 4
Chicago
Trinity
-----------------
Amherst
Messiah
Final
Chicago
Amherst
Champion
Chicago
Round 2
Chicago
Westminster
DePauw
Wash U
Carthage
Hanover
St. Thomas
St. Norbert
------------------------
Rowan
Springfield
Fords
UMass-Boston
Trinity
Chapman
John Carroll
Kenyon
------------------------
Amherst
Worcester St
St. Joe's
Brandeis
Newark
Vassar
Oneonta
Eastern
------------------------
Messiah
Newport
CMU
ONU
Morrisville
Scranton
F&M
W&L
Sweet 16
Chicago
DePauw
Carthage
St. Thomas
------------------
Rowan
UMass-Boston
Trinity
Kenyon
------------------
Amherst
Brandeis
Newark
Oneonta
------------------
Messiah
ONU
Scranton
W&L
Elite 8
Chicago
Carthage
---------------
UMass-Boston
Trinity
---------------
Amherst
Oneonta
---------------
Ohio Northern
W&L
Final 4
Chicago
Trinity
-----------------
Oneonta
Ohio Northern
Final
Chicago
Ohio Northern
Champion
Chicago
Elite 8
Newark over Amherst
Cortland over Messiah
Chicago over Carthage
Rowan over Lynchburg
Semis
Cortland over Newark
Chicago over Rowan
Final
Chicago over Cortland
Cortland will be out in the Sweet 16. IMO they are overrated.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 01:24:41 PM
Cortland will be out in the Sweet 16. IMO they are overrated.
That is entirely possible. They made a GK change in their bad loss to Oneonta in late Sep. and have reeled of 12 straight since with just 2 GA. Included were a 5-0 rout of Hobart and 1-0 win in the rematch with Oneonta. I just took a flyer on a hot team with a new attitude.
There are going to be some major 1st round exits. The questions are who and where and how many. For example, Shooter has ONU getting to the championship final. Gun to my head I don't see them getting by Calvin in round 1 but that should be a very good, at least Sweet 16 level kind of battle.
Quote from: just4kix on November 08, 2016, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 01:24:41 PM
Cortland will be out in the Sweet 16. IMO they are overrated.
That is entirely possible. They made a GK change in their bad loss to Oneonta in late Sep. and have reeled of 12 straight since with just 2 GA. Included were a 5-0 rout of Hobart and 1-0 win in the rematch with Oneonta. I just took a flyer on a hot team with a new attitude.
That was the Cortland / Oneonta regular season game that I watched and the GK was bad but the whole team had nothing "special" in that game. Their defense caved rather easily to Oneonta and they generated nothing going forward and their attitude and body language looked as if they knew they were going to lose and gave up in the 2nd Half. I did not like it. However, you maybe right they may be really hot right now and plating much better and should have a pretty easy ride into the Sweet 16.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 08, 2016, 01:53:34 PM
There are going to be some major 1st round exits. The questions are who and where and how many. For example, Shooter has ONU getting to the championship final. Gun to my head I don't see them getting by Calvin in round 1 but that should be a very good, at least Sweet 16 level kind of battle.
Agreed....With all the parity this could be the year of upsets all over the bracket. Even much weaker teams will have a chance to sit in and get to PK's because so many teams around the country are having trouble scoring.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: just4kix on November 08, 2016, 01:47:21 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 08, 2016, 01:24:41 PM
Cortland will be out in the Sweet 16. IMO they are overrated.
That is entirely possible. They made a GK change in their bad loss to Oneonta in late Sep. and have reeled of 12 straight since with just 2 GA. Included were a 5-0 rout of Hobart and 1-0 win in the rematch with Oneonta. I just took a flyer on a hot team with a new attitude.
That was the Cortland / Oneonta regular season game that I watched and the GK was bad but the whole team had nothing "special" in that game. Their defense caved rather easily to Oneonta and they generated nothing going forward and their attitude and body language looked as if they knew they were going to lose and gave up in the 2nd Half. I did not like it. However, you maybe right they may be really hot right now and plating much better and should have a pretty easy ride into the Sweet 16.
[/
Mr Right...the Cortland team playing now is not the same as the one that lost to Oneonta the first game they played and I'm sure Oneonta would verify that. After Cortland's two straight losses to SLU and Oneonta (the only two of the season), the team switched formations and replaced the whole back line and keeper. The team hasn't lost since and only gave up two goals the rest of the season. I could be wrong, but i think you'll be surprised at how quick their team defense is now. They are a hot team and IMO could make a deep run in the tournament.
Round 2 2 pts ea
Chicago
Dubuque
Centre
Redlands
Carthage
UW-W
St. Thomas
St. Norbert
Rowan
Tufts
Haverford
Kean
Trinity
Texas-Dallas
John Carroll
Kenyon
Amherst
Worcester St
Babson
Brandeis
Rutgers-Newark
Vassar
Oneonta St
Eastern
Messiah
CNU
CMU
Calvin
Cortland St
Scranton
F&M
SLU
---------------------------------
Round of 16 4 pts ea
Chicago
Redlands
Carthage
St. Thomas
Tufts
Haverford
Trinity
Kenyon
Amherst
Brandeis
Rutgers-Newark
Oneonta St
Messiah
Calvin
Scranton
F&M
-----------------------------------------
Elite 8 8 pts ea
Chicago
St. Thomas
Tufts
Trinity
Amherst
Rutgers-Newark
Messiah
F&M
-----------------------------------------
Final Four 16 pts ea
Chicago
Trinity
Rutgers-Newark
Messiah
------------------------------------------
Messiah over Trinity 32 pts ea / 64 pts for correct champion
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 08, 2016, 01:53:34 PM
There are going to be some major 1st round exits. The questions are who and where and how many. For example, Shooter has ONU getting to the championship final. Gun to my head I don't see them getting by Calvin in round 1 but that should be a very good, at least Sweet 16 level kind of battle.
Having seen all 4 of these teams this - Capital playing three of them: not sure what the week off does for OWU, but rested they will be. Saw CMU vs Allegheny, JCU and Grove City - they are a solid team - I recall a couple of strong DM's that did well winning 50/50 challenges - taking pressure off the back 4. I really wasn't impressed with Allegheny this year but they hung around in the CMU game in spite of constantly losing the ball in midfield. This game should have been more in their favor than the 2-1 final. Grove City - they had GCC chasing the game for the first 20 minutes - got their goal and seemed to ease up a bit. GCC finished the half a little bit more competitively and that carried into the second half. After they got the tying goal they held a little bit more of the possession - homecoming weekend energy from a larger than usual student section - winning on a howler of a goal. They were very dominant in the JCU game - goal came from a scrum in the 6 - ball trickles into the corner. CMU was called OS 8 times in that game - JCU with a very high line that the CMU forwards seemed to have trouble finding ( but EIGHT times!?!?). When in the attacking third the CMU forwards made excellent runs behind the midfield, in front of the back 4. JCU just didn't track the runners - GK broke up play 30 yards from goal 2-3 times.
Calvin gave up 6 goals in conference this year - 10 total. Most teams would kill for those stats - but they played no one in 17 of their 30 games this year. Since their 1-0 against Benedictine in early September they haven't played the likes of CMU, OWU or ONU. Very fortunate to have a SOS over .500 at .515.
ONU ended the season flat except for the ass-kicking they gave to Capital. They are one of the more attack-oriented teams in the Midwest - they have 7-8 guys who can play Total Soccer (for you older fans of 1970's Dutch soccer). Their problem is in the two types of goals they concede: long ball over the top leading to semi-breakaways and goals in the Marietta and JCU games. But their biggest problem is set pieces - specifically crosses in the air. 3 goals at Capital (1 wrongly called back), regular season goal against JCU - cross from 50 yards away - and the howler this weekend - misjudging a corner and watching it go directing in - NEAR POST.
I can't see Calvin stopping ONU's forwards. Even if they make mistakes on defense - down 2-0 to JCU at JCU - stormed right back. They start 7 seniors, 4 juniors - one freshman regularly sees action.
CMU and OWU - a toss up. Ryan noted how scoring from the run of play was problematic for OWU. This game goes to PK's.
Thank-god for these religious schools giving us a great slate of 4 games on Friday starting at 11am with OWU v CMU to mix it up a little and give us a chance to catch more games and more teams. Why did Messiah stop doing the Friday / Saturday games?
If I remember correctly CMU has a good / decent stream but does anyone know what F&M's stream is like? If it is anything like Muhlenberg's stream in 2014 we are in trouble. However, now that I am thinking about it I caught a few Centennial games this year and I believe the whole conference uses the same website to stream all their sports and it is pretty good quality because I remember catching a Haverford game this year and it was good quality
One more quick thing that I noticed...Is this new?
Transcontinental Quadrant
I never remember this? Just an interesting side note as it looks like they dropped the West name...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 09, 2016, 12:10:45 PM
One more quick thing that I noticed...Is this new?
Transcontinental Quadrant
I never remember this? Just an interesting side note as it looks like they dropped the West name...
A lot more fancy than "And Everybody Else" Quadrant . . .
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 09, 2016, 12:04:36 PMIf I remember correctly CMU has a good / decent stream but does anyone know what F&M's stream is like?
I have watched a lot of F&M games the past few years and have found their stream to be one of the best around.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 09, 2016, 12:10:45 PM
One more quick thing that I noticed...Is this new?
Transcontinental Quadrant
I never remember this? Just an interesting side note as it looks like they dropped the West name...
The names of the quadrants are not given by the NCAA and therefore are not official. It's just something we at D3soccer.com do so we have some way of referring to them. And sometimes the teams and the pods of a quadrant are so scattered that there's just no name that fits except something like "Transcontinental". We used that twice before for the men in 2011 (http://www.d3soccer.com/ncaatournament/2011/men/2011-mens-bracket) and 2012 (http://www.d3soccer.com/ncaatournament/2012/men/2012-mens-bracket), but have avoided using it until again until this year. We've used it for the women in 2011 and 2014.
There are no set four names we use every year. Almost every year two of the quadrants could both be given the designation "Northeast", but then we look to see if one could be named "New England" or "Mid-Atlantic", and if not maybe "East" or "Atlantic". And then there's always one quadrant (sometimes almost two) that could go "Central", "North Central" or Midwest" with one designation perhaps seeming a little more appropriate given the mix of teams and pod sites that year. Sometimes we can use "Great Lakes" or "West", etc. I probably over-think the naming, but it is nice to have a name for referencing purposes, especially when we get to the sectionals.
One thing to point out about a potential UWW vs. Carthage rematch in the second round is that the first game was played at UWW. Not many times is playing away from home an advantage but it might be for UWW. They are built to slow the game down and pump every throw in, corner and free kick into three guys 6 ft 4 or taller waiting in the box. With Carthage's field being much narrower than UWW's field I believe this is an advantage to the Warhawks. Throw ins will go deeper in the box and cause problem after problem for the opposing defense and goalkeeper.
If both teams make it to the second round I believe UWW wins 2-1 in overtime.
Second Round
Chicago
Westminster
Depauw
Wash U
Carthage
Whitewater
St. Thomas
Luther
Rowan
Tufts
Haverford
UMB
Trinity
Chapman
Lynchburg
Kenyon
Amherst
Daniel Webster
Babson
Brandeis
Rutgers Newark
Vassar
SUNY Oneonta
Rochester
Messiah
Chris Newport
Carnegie Mellon
Calvin
Cortland
Scranton
F&M
W&L
Sweet 16
Chicago
Wash U
Whitewater
St. Thomas
Rowan
Haverford
Trinity
Kenyon
Amherst
Babson
Vassar
Rochester
Messiah
Carnegie Mellon
Cortland
W&L
Elite 8
Chicago
St. Thomas
Haverford
Trinity
Amherst
Rochester
Messiah
Cortland
Final Four
Chicago
Trinity
Amherst
Messiah
Chicago over Messiah
Second Round
Chicago
Westminster
DePauw
Washington St Louis
Carthage
Wis-Whitewater
St Thomas
Luther
Rowan
Tufts
Haverford
UMASS Boston
Trinity
Chapman
Lynchburg
Kenyon
Amherst
Worchester
Babson
Brandeis
Rutgers-Newark
Etown
SUNY Oneonta
Rochester
Messiah
Montclair
Ohio Wes
Ohio North
Morrisville
Penn St Behrand
F&M
Wash Lee
Sweet 16
Chicago
Washington St. Louis
Carthage
Luther
Rowan
Haverford
Trinity
Kenton
Amherst
Brandeis
Rutgers-Newark
SUNY Oneonta
Messiah
Ohio North
Morrisville
F&M
Elite 8
Chicago
Luther
Rowan
Kenyon
Amherst
Rutgers-Newark
Messiah
F&M
Final 4
Chicago
Rowan
Amherst
Messiah
Final
Rowan beats Messiah
2nd round:
Chicago
Dubuque
DePauw
Wash U
Carthage
UWW
St. Thomas
Luther
Rowan
Tufts
Haverford
Kean
Trinity
Texas Dallas
Lynchburg
Kenyon
Amherst
Worchester
babson
brandeis
Rutgers-Newark
Elizabethtown
SUNY O
Rochester
Messiah
Chris. Newport
Ohio Wes
Ohio N.
SUNY C
Scranton
F&M
St. L
Sweet Sixteen:
Chicago
DePauw
UWW
Luther
Rowan Haverford
Trinity
Kenyon
Amherst
Brandies
Rutgers-Newerk
Rochester
Messiah
Ohio W
SUNY C
St. Lawrence
Elite 8:
Chicago
UWW
Rowan
Kenyon
Amherst
Rutgers Newark
Messiah
St. Lawrence
Final Four:
Chicago
Rowan
Amherst
Messiah
Final:
Chicago
Amherst
Winner:
Chicago
Here we go getting ready to watch the 1st game of the 2016 NCAA's...CMU v OWU....I wonder how CMU feels about playing on a Friday at 11am? Think they will draw a big crowd? As a neutral I am pleased but as a team I would be bullsh*t being forced to play at this time on this day in front of no one..It has happened for years but as a coach nothing gets you more riled up than that.
Match-up of 2 bubble teams IMO....1 NCAC school that did not make their own tournament an 1 UAA school that is tryin to prove the doubters wrong..Can the UAA succeed this year? You would figure with so much parity this would be as good a shot as any year in recent memory.
OWU goes up 1-0 over CMU 5 minutes in on a bizarre goal. CMU plays a short goal kick and OWU is high pressing and forces a giveaway by CMU deep in their own end. OWU moves the ball around to the other side and the kid hits a moving rocket that gets past the GK about 25 yrds out. CMU's GK makes 2 errors as he should of saved it and never have played a short GK if OWU is going to press so high.
CMU has a golden chance off a corner as the kid had a free header on net and went over the goal. OWU needs to clean up their defense on set pieces or CMU will get a goal on one of them. This game has more goals in it and looks to be a very even game.
CMU coming on strong now as they draw the game 1-1 off a set piece that OWU did not clear properly an then tripped a CMU kid on the box for a PK...1-1
UPDATE: CMU really coming on strong as they are looking the better team 1st Half they go up 2-1 over OWU at halftime off a nasty one-two and OWU defender fell asleep and did not follow his man and he got in 1v1 on the GK...NIce Finish..2-1 CMU
Watched last 10 mins of the first half and CMU is dominating possession. They scored on a point blank shot after the ball was headed deeper into the box. 2-1 CMU at the half.
This CMU side is a very good side with only 3 seniors so expect them to challenge for the UAA title for a few years now. #10 Devin Keane is the only senior who is a legitimate contributor that will graduate. The coach who is in his 3rd year has really done well with this program recruiting wise and really putting a stamp on this program.
CMU gets a goal called back after a questionable offside call, but even prior to that the ball seemed to be out of balance and should have been an OWU throw-in. What a bizarre sequence of events. Glad to see the officiating hasn't gotten any better from the regular season. You have to feel bad for these teams with trying to play a guessing game with officials each game. Poor as usual from the NCAA and the crews they provide. Takes away from the game!! >:(
Add to that OWU was somehow given an indirect kick on the 6-yard line after a CMU foul in the box. Unless someone else saw something, I have no idea how that's not a penalty.
CMU definitely controlled the first half. Second has been more even, but a large part of that is the ref and both teams losing their heads a bit.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on November 11, 2016, 12:40:54 PM
Add to that OWU was somehow given an indirect kick on the 6-yard line after a CMU foul in the box. Unless someone else saw something, I have no idea how that's not a penalty.
CMU definitely controlled the first half. Second has been more even, but a large part of that is the ref and both teams losing their heads a bit.
100% agree. Glad I am not the only one watching this!! Had to call it a dangerous play for it to be indirect but I instantly assumed penalty as did the players. Definitely wasn't a handball so had to be a foul or dangerous play. Very unlucky for OWU with that call. Also not a lot of flow with all these stoppages in the second half. I didn't catch the first half.
Yea, I'm sure that's what he called, but there was nothing that could be deemed a dangerous play. Scared refereeing, in my opinion. CMU's coaching staff berated the ref in the first half and he refused to make that call against them.
And if OWU loses that won't be the reason why, mind you. CMU's had the better of play so far. Just a bad missed call.
Desperation mode here for OWU as they are essentially playing a 2-5-3 for the last 10 minutes of the game.
They are pushing numbers forward BUT have not had a really dangerous chance yet...5 minutes left
Big waste of time with that shanked scissor kick attempt. Would have liked to see him head it back across into the mix. Chewed up a minute off the clock.
2-1 CMU final. A solid game to start the tournament season!
OWU season ends and personally that was a very average OWU side. They were athletic as usual but lacked a real creativity in midfield in this game. The UAA starts off well as they usually do BUT can they get past the Sweet 16 / Elite 8 this year. Let's wait and see.
Now we wait for a 1:30pm match-up of 2 teams with a GREAT winning % but low SOS in weak leagues. I have not seen either team this year so I am looking forward to it. I just wish CMU's stream was a tad better...Interestingly, OWU played both these teams and drew ONU and beat Calvin early early in the season. It doesn't matter now for OWU but it gives us some results v common opponents
A little disappointing for OWU. I try to keep a little perspective, as they started 5 freshmen and played another 5 today, but would have liked to see them play better.
I don't want to make this about the referee, but he lost control of this game midway through the first half. CMU's coach completely lost control - and I mean completely. He went nuts on the ref, leading the 4th official to tell him to sit down, but he was so far gone that he pretended to sit down only to run back almost onto the field and start screaming at the ref once the 4th official walked away. He did that multiple times until the ref finally carded him. I thought that affected the referee and the entire game. The ref had a quick trigger on OWU for the rest of the first half, and then in the second half seemed to try to make up for it with a quick whistle on CMU. First half fouls were 12-4 OWU, second half 11-5 CMU. I usually think a game is going to be bad if there are more fouls than shots. Today? 21 shots, 32 fouls.
The PK for CMU was soft but fair, as there looked like minimal contact but the OWU player stuck his leg out. The second goal it looked like a deflected clearance bounced to a CMU player, who played it back across the goal into the space where the OWU centerback had stepped up and another player ran in to finish it. Overall, OWU started well but CMU dominated the final 20-25 minutes of the half - the entire period after they tied it.
The second half was poor from both sides. OWU started better and built a lot of pressure, mostly through free kicks. That eventually led to that inexplicable "dangerous play" call from the referee. That call is only warranted in two instances, really: (1) a very high kick or (2) a player laying on the ball. Neither of those things happened, and the reactions of players on both teams suggested every one of them thought it was a PK. The ref awarded an indirect free kick, and CMU blocked it on the goal line.
From there, CMU got back to the way they'd been playing in the first half. They were very good on the ball in midfield and a little faster to most 50-50 balls. The ref missed another odd call, as the ball went out of play for an OWU throw, but there was no call. CMU played the ball in behind and the linesman flagged offside immediately (the OWU bench was going nuts), but the ref failed to notice for almost 45 seconds, until after CMU had scored and celebrated.
From there, OWU went very direct and CMU countered accordingly. CMU could have scored 1-2 more but couldn't finish. OWU, for their part, did not create any more clear-cut chances. CMU's GK handled crosses very well and the defense kept everything in front of them.
Congrats to Carnegie for a big win and good luck tomorrow. OWU has some work to do, but I'm glad these young guys (12 of 18 who played were freshmen or sophomores) have the experience heading toward next year.
Video stream froze for the entire second half - not sure if it my location, if we slammed their server - very sad. CMU has a lot of size and they really made midfield play difficult for OWU. I wasn't sure how the layoff would affect them but they weren't the sharpest today. If there was a deciding variable I thought the 50/50 challenges went heavily towards CMU. Officiating comments below not a reflection on CMU's preformance - they did what they needed to get the win.
Interesting observations about the officiating - stopping play in the first half to give a card for dissent!!??!? CMU had the ball in their third - restart in the attacking half - I thought that to be an unnecessary and emotional reaction by the CR. Moments later he cards the CMU bench, and moments later a demonstrative signal for the penalty (was the PK that obvious? If the OWU player swept the feet from under the CMU player - he let that go twice earlier in the first half when it happened to OWU players). Subtle - but signs of too much emotion from the CR. He also called Romanelli for a dangerous play in the first half. Not that these plays don't exist - the LOTG still acknowledge their existence - but you can count on one hand the number of times this season an IFK is awarded for "dangerous play" in the EPL. I hope over-involved officiating doesn't enter into other games.
Interesting, Ryan - I was typing my response at the same time as you - yours came through first.
WOW!!!! You can clearly hear the whistle BEFORE the ball goes in!!!! Officiating is leaving its mark on these first two games!!
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 11, 2016, 02:21:53 PM
WOW!!!! You can clearly hear the whistle BEFORE the ball goes in!!!! Officiating is leaving its mark on these first two games!!
ONU players were going nuts. Unbelievable how poor the officiating has been and its only game #2!!! ::)
Crunch time here for ONU. 10 minutes to go down 1-0. They have been pushing but no real threat on goal. This has been a good game and should honestly have never been a 1st round game. Sweet 16 or Elite 8 caliber match-up and very sad for one team that will end up going home way too early.
1-0 Calvin final. CMU vs Calvin tomorrow afternoon at 1pm. Based off today I would guess 2-1 Calvin but it is @CMU. Should be a great game.
Tough outcome for ONU. My video froze when Calvin got the goal so I don't know if it was a good goal or not. ONU tried like heck to get one back but just could not break through the Calvin defense to get clean looks. I remember one really good chance but not many. Calvin always surprises me. They look like a bunch of white kids who got cut from the JV high school basketball team, maybe partly because of the Penn State-like nondescript uniforms, but they are extremely cohesive, close very well to the ball, tackle hard and win the ball, commit smart, tough fouls that they don't apologize for, and almost always win. Two very good teams. Hard to see CMU getting by Calvin unless it's in OT or PKs.
In the first game, CMU looked like the stronger team (when my video wasn't frozen). Credit to CMU for overcoming the early deficit. OWU just never was as dynamic as I expect them to be all year. Actually their best game might have been the draw with ONU, which was a really good game. The CMU coach I think is probably a disciple of Jeb Burch at Centre, as Bowman went to Centre and then coached at Transy for a number of years until going to CMU. My sense is that Jeb is a real character as well. I remember a game two years ago when Rochester was playing at CMU and the two benches were going crazy for most of the game. The audio was on so you could hear someone from the Rochester area, I think the head coach, screaming over and over for someone to go get the CMU AD down to the field.
Ahh...Such a difference in the F&M stream compared to the CMU stream...Really good stream and announcers...F&M and Geneva knotted up at 0-0 20 minutes in...
As a type this F&M slams home a goal to take a deserved 1-0 lead.
F+M seem very legit.
Strong in attack with a couple individual players on both wings.
Geneva does have a dangerous striker as well who almost scored so anything cam happen.
Really good soccer game and great stream/commentary.
One of the commentators, Jared Bomba, had a very good career at F&M and was a senior just last year or the year before. Very interesting that F&M has a coach from Messiah (as does Geneva) and the F&M broadcast seems very closely modeled after the excellent Messiah productions.
Interesting that in the current D3 poll the top vote getters since day 1 consistently and by large margin has run in this order Middlebury, Loras and Oberlin.
Great first half in Lancaster. W&L scored early, but SLU has dominated possession and equalized near the end of the half.
Damn, this F&M stream and commentary is QUALITY. Forget Lalas and Twellman, sign these two up.
What happened to F&M's stream? After the first OT it just died.
Never mind, I got it back.
SLU's continues to struggle with PKs. Can't remember the last shootout they won. They're a crapshoot, but Smith was absolutely awful in that shootout. Lucky to have made the tournament, but man those were some bad attempts. I used to play GK so I suppose I'm a bit biased about that. Either way always a brutal method to go out. Congrats to W&L on weathering the storm, should be a great game tomorrow.
I missed the SLU v W&L game but it does seem that SLU is snake bitten in PK's the last 10 years in the NCAA's...Former MIT coach Mike Singleton doing a fin job at W&L and I believe MIT's 2015 Sweet 16 run was his doing for the most part because they were most if not all his players.
First Round:
Westminster
Depquw
WUST
Carthage
UWW
St Thomas
Luther
Rowan
Tufts
Haverford
Umass Boston
Trinity
Dallas
Lynchburg
Kenyon
Daniel Webster
Babson
Brandeis
Rutgers
Vassar
Oneonta
Rochester
Messiah
CNU
Ohio Wes
Calvin
Morrisville
Scranton
F&M
W&L
Second Round:
Chicago
WUSTL
UWW
St. THomas
Tufts
Haverford
Trinity
Kenyon
Amherst
Brandeis
Vassar
Rochester
Messiah
Calvin
Scranton
F&M
Third Round:
Chicago
UWW
Tufts
Trinity
Amherst
Rochester
Calvin
F&A
Final Four:
Chicago
Tufts
Amherst
Calvin
Final:
Chicago
Calvin
Campeoni:
Chi-town
Burch and Bowman do not get along at all. No real reason, just deep discord. Both are fiery and passionate.
St.Joes(ME) and Babson a pretty even game so far...
Surprised that St.John Fischer is holding Oneonta St 0-0 almost to Halftime.
Haverford easily handling Merchant Marine 2-0 almost Halftime.
Oneonta absolutely dominating St.John Fischer in what looks to be a half field scrimmage but they cannot finish YET. I expect them to get a goal or 2 to put them away but as predicted with all the parity in 2016 and with many teams having issues scoring it is no surprise we may well see teams getting upset in the 1st / 2nd Round as lesser teams try to get games into PK's and take their chances there.
St.John Fischer is hanging on and whacking everything insight..Quite ugly to watch but I have never seen an Oneonta side give the ball away like they have in this game. They are stringing 4 to 5 passes together and then in the Final 3rd they are giving the ball away. They look dangerous and "should" score but their defense does look a bit shaky and this young Oneonta side is very beatable this year IMO. Maybe UR has a good chance in this pod as Oneonta can be beaten
Babson at St.Joes(ME) heading to OT as this game has PK's written all over it. Babson has looked unimpressive at best.
Oneonta finally gets a goal on a nice goal from #9 who took it off his chest and one timed a left footed rip into the corner of the goal. 1-0 Oneonta about 10 minutes left.
As Mr.Right predicted Babson is eliminated by St.Joseph's(ME) in PK's...The difference in the game was St.Joe's 6'7 GK which helped all game and especially in Pk's...Babson again proves they were overrated and over ranked in New England.
St. Thomas is down 0-1 to Scholastica! Can CSS hold on for the major upset?!
St. Thomas just hit a PK off the post... still down 0-1!
CSS shooting themselves in the feet.
Gave up a goal with 3 minutes left, just picked up a red card with 1 second left.
If you are keeping track at home, that's 3 red cards in 2 games for Scholastica...
Lynchburg and JCU tied at half. LC started with tremendous energy playing at home - dictated play for the first 15-20 minutes and getting their goal off a corner. JCU keeper attempted a one-handed punch - either missed it completely or barely touched the cross - back post player heads it home. JCU got into the game later in the half and scored off a beauty from 22 yards out - left footed drive into the tight upper 90.
LC moving the ball much more quickly. JCU, in addition to taking too long on the ball, is suffering from poor passing accuracy.
LC scores 4 minutes into the second half - 2-1.
3-1 now. LC has a couple players with monster throws - third goal comes from a second header of a long throw. Keeper makes a valiant attempt to save it - gets a hand on it up cannot keep it out. Both second half goals scored from inside the 6.
4-1 - LC wins a 50/50 challenge and quickly goes to goal - slotted pass received and placed nicely into the lower left corner. JCU responded well after those two early second-half goals - had 4 really good chances but only forced the keeper to make one save. The score is more lop-sided than the game and LC needs to tighten up in the back by tomorrow.
CMU has played a great game but simply cannot break through Calvin in the final third. Got to be very frustrating. At times seems like Calvin has 13 players on the field. Vegter clears everything in sight. Calvin scores off corner with 3 headers yielding goal. Calvin is a very tough, well-organized and well-coached team. A good opponent after so much effort to break through inevitably is going to leave a lot of space for Calvin going the other way. If we get to Calvin vs Messiah that will be a monumental battle.
St Thomas wins 2-1 in 2 OT, as they bombard shorthanded SSC with corners and finally put a head solidly on one.
Thanks for karma whoever. Calvin wins 1-0. CMU gave it everything they had. Got very close a few times but then Calvin GK would make a great save.
UMASS Boston showing its chops with a 2-0 lead over Kean halfway thru the 2nd Half
UR showing why they limped into the dance as they are down 2-0 to Eastern late in the 2nd Half.
Brandeis dominating WNEC but just cannot finish as they should have 2-3 goals at this point. 2nd Half just getting started still 0-0
Kenyon has a 1-0 lead at half against Maryville (TN) thanks to a snipe from Philippe Stengel.
Messiah and Centenary coming up soon at 5pm..followed by Chris Newport and MSU at 730 ..that should be a good game
30 min remaining, Kenyon up 2-0. Brice Koval with the finish
Messiah up 2-0 with 20 left in first half. 14 shots to 1
Cortland St goes down 1-0 to Morrisville St 1-0 in a possible upset but they tie the game up 1-1 on an absolute HORRIFIC GK'ing error. A harmless long cross takes a turn towards goal and an easy catch for the GK. GK lets the ball go right thru his hands. 1-1 game and if you are going to upset the home team you need stellar Gk'ing not a disaster in net
F&M up 1-0 over W&L in the ampersand battle. W&L leads in shots 7-6.
(Also F&M has had the great broadcasts since before Messiah, so it was Messiah, and lots of other who have upgraded to F&M)
F&M broadcast team is superb...video good but angles and view not great.
Kenyon looked very sloppy today. That will not get it done tomorrow against a team that has yet to lose on its home field and will have an active crowd. Maybe another night of sleep after very long bus ride and a bus accident before practice today will help. Should be relatively fresh as Brown played a lot of subs a ton and was probably sending a message to starting forwards and mids whose passes were not sharp and far too many easy giveaways and loss of 50/50 balls to a scrappy Maryville team. Lords need to come out hot tomorrow and snag an early goal.
Quote from: rudy on November 12, 2016, 05:30:10 PM
Messiah up 2-0 with 20 left in first half. 14 shots to 1
5-0 now
Will C puts in back to back goals. This one is over. Clicking well this game..tomorrows game will be much tougher
Wild one thus far in Chicago. Dubuque goes up 2-0 with couple of pretty goals in first five minute. In the 10th minute Westminster looks to have scored but was waived on a red card to Dubuque in box. Westminster converted pk and scored another two minutes later. Still 22 minutes left in the first 2-2.
I was impressed with F&M today as they dominated W&L. F&M dominated possession and play a nice attractive futbol compared to W&L who are not the prettiest team to watch, like Singleton's teams at MIT. They are an athletic side but the wingbacks look slow and F&M could be a dangerous side moving forward if they can continue to play on their carpet.
Agree. Last two nights are first time I got a good look at F&M. Much more talented than I realized. Some very skilled and pacey players. Okolie has got to be one of the best in the country, but several other very talented players. Dangerous speed coming around the wings. I was wrong. The Diplomats CAN play with Messiah or any other team. I've been blinded by my fatigue over Dips alum Jeffrey Lord.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 12, 2016, 06:04:35 PM
F&M broadcast team is superb...video good but angles and view not great.
Kenyon looked very sloppy today. That will not get it done tomorrow against a team that has yet to lose on its home field and will have an active crowd. Maybe another night of sleep after very long bus ride and a bus accident before practice today will help. Should be relatively fresh as Brown played a lot of subs a ton and was probably sending a message to starting forwards and mids whose passes were not sharp and far too many easy giveaways and loss of 50/50 balls to a scrappy Maryville team. Lords need to come out hot tomorrow and snag an early goal.
It really hasn't been Amolo's year but the attack functioned much better with Amolo and Glassman out - even Eudy looks less effective than in previous years. The younger players seem to connect and support one another with runs and positioning.
DePauw comes from behind to defeat Centre 3-2. Colonels hit post (partial save by DPU GK) with 50 secs left on a free kick.
Domino, the younger forward tandem has given Kenyon a nice boost but they aren't going far if Amolo, Eudy and Carmona don't play very well. I'll bet Amolo will be sharp tomorrow in a big game. Mids need to play much simpler and cleaner, or Brown needs to put in mids who can make clean passes and avoid bad giveaways. Even Myers was off today early in the game. The good news is that Clougher is playing his best ball of the season. And Lowry and Resnekov played really well too.
Tony also is not getting the kind of service he used to get with Barnes out on the field. I've never thought of him as a pure striker but as more of an attacking mid. Would be interesting to see him there sitting in behind two forwards. He had a gorgeous pass curving across the face of goal today that Glassman should have buried. They also could play Carmona at attacking mid and put Eudy at holding.
Trinity looks very good. Great video and commentary there as well. And after a score player goes right into fan area and hugs his parents. Gotta be one of the best venues in D3.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 12, 2016, 07:09:21 PM
DePauw comes from behind to defeat Centre 3-2. Colonels hit post (partial save by DPU GK) with 50 secs left on a free kick.
Domino, the younger forward tandem has given Kenyon a nice boost but they aren't going far if Amolo, Eudy and Carmona don't play very well. I'll bet Amolo will be sharp tomorrow in a big game. Mids need to play much simpler and cleaner, or Brown needs to put in mids who can make clean passes and avoid bad giveaways. Even Myers was off today early in the game. The good news is that Clougher is playing his best ball of the season. And Lowry and Resnekov played really well too.
Tony also is not getting the kind of service he used to get with Barnes out on the field. I've never thought of him as a pure striker but as more of an attacking mid. Would be interesting to see him there sitting in behind two forwards. He had a gorgeous pass curving across the face of goal today that Glassman should have buried. They also could play Carmona at attacking mid and put Eudy at holding.
I did watch the Kenyon game and recall the pass to Glassman. I've only seen Kenyon 4 times this year but I commented how they seem like a rudderless ship since Barnes left. But the younger players are so much sharper right now. If JCU finished a third of their chances the score would have been 4-4 minimum. JCU gave the ball away too cheaply too many times and LC was excellent at capitalizing on those turnovers. Kenyon won't make those mistakes and if LC plays as loose as they did today in their area Kenyon wins - won't be easy - but as the dad of a defender - Kenyon's defense has the edge over LC.
Looked like an unbelievably tough call for a PK with a minute left. Pretty sure ref had wrong angle on that. Carthage out. Maybe only team that had a chance versus Chicago in that quad.
As a ref in that situation (talking about Carthage), you just can't call that! He didn't get mugged, there was no saving the ball of the end-line with a hand, no punches thrown... That was a mediocre foul, if that, in the center of the field. But to call a PK in double overtime in the national tournament.. wowzers!
But with that said, Benedictine missed a breakaway prior to that in the first overtime.
I think if UWW makes it through their match against Hanover, I think they may be viewing this game as being very winnable.
Hanover and UWW may be a sleeper game if UWW doesn't show up! Stanko UWW's 6'6/6'7 center back is back in action... Should point to mention, he was out for a majority of the remainder of UWW's season (where they finished with a 9 game unbeaten streak).
IMO Springfield has played a really good game versus Tufts but unfortunately just went down 2-0 on a great goal curved in from a decent distance outside the 18.
Stanko starts up top, scores a quick goal off a long throw at forward. Very smart decision, need his ability to score goals but don't mess with a back-line that is doing a great job.
UWW 1 - Hanover 0
And the UAA is down to 2 (from 5). Very well played, open game with Wash U and Redlands. Redlands comes back from down 2-0 in the 2nd half with advance in PKs and after missing 1st PK. The Bulldogs should have a good chance against DePauw.
not just a second half lead of 2-0, they had a 2 goal lead with 16 minutes remaining.
Montclair State another 1st round knock out 5-1. When was that last year they made it out of the first round?
Tufts with most of the possession in the first half and knock 2 in the second half to advance.....2-0. Springfield's defense closed fast but the Jumbos attack finally scored 2....
Quote from: mjan on November 12, 2016, 11:11:40 PM
Montclair State another 1st round knock out 5-1. When was that last year they made it out of the first round?
It got very cold last night so I did not stay for the second half, but the first half was a wide open, up-and-down game--the kind of game in which Lucas Terci could very well have scored at least one goal (in that half). Both teams were dangerous, but MSU would surely have been more dangerous than they were (they probably get more SOG than they did), if he had been in there, and perhaps it's a 2-2 tie at the half instead of 2-1 in favor of CNU. We aren't going to know.
What we do know is that Terci played his last collegiate game in the NJAC semifinal. The significance of that red card (his second for the season) was magnified last night.
The first game went pretty much as expected, though (if anything) Messiah played even better than I had anticipated. A nearly perfect game for them. If they do it again tonight, then CNU's season will be over. But, they don't play 'em on paper, and I expect CNU to be the toughest opponent Messiah has faced all year. It could go either way. Indeed, IMO, every remaining game on Messiah's schedule now features a Final-Four quality opponent. I don't think that can be said for the other three top seeds. Whoever comes out of next week's sectional will have earned it.
I thought the Tufts v Springfield game was a scrappy workmanlike game. Springfield works very hard but were extremely UGLY as their backs were whacking everything. Springfield had a few dangerous players but Springfield did not have enough weapons to beat Tufts. That said Tufts showed they have some serious weaknesses that better teams(Rowan) can exploit. I thought Tufts backline looked awful last night. Tufts LB who i believe got an assist on the goal is a major weakness IMO and Rowan has speed on the flanks and skill to beat him 1v1. Sullivan and Coleman(Tufts CB's) looked very vulnerable last night as they were missing their marks and again Coleman is SLOOOWWW which will hurt against better teams(Rowan). Tufts works very hard and are playing as a team more than I have ever seen them play because they do not have the star power they did in 2014. Becharano scored on a nice header but again before that I had not noticed him all game. Majumder looks a shade of himself as his injuries have obviously affected him. Rojas came into the game and showed his skill but looked soft in tackle for a Jersey player. I think they can beat Rowan but will need to play their "A" game to do so. Their backs MUST play better or they will give up 2-3 goals in this game. I am expecting a tight affair and one of the better games of the day today. BTW, excellent stream from Rowan, no announcers which I like(Haverford games would have been much better had those girls been MUTED), and quality stream.
A ton of the questionable Pool C bids that teams got are showing that the committee really has no clue...WAKE UP...
UR--losing to Eastern 2-0
OWU----losing a tight game to CMU but that was not a great OWU side and did not look like a OWU side of old.
SLU---Did not deserve their bid after finishing the season 2-3-0 and then got dispatched on PK's to W&L..Tough way to go out but that SLU side was average at best.
Dubuque--10 men or not a Pool C team should not be losing to a weaker AQ from a weak league.
Wash U---Tough match v Redlands but they coughed up a 2-0 lead with 15 minutes left. Another UAA team to lose.
Babson----Overrated and over ranked all year this team was anemic up front and lose to a weak AQ from a weak league. St.Joe's 6'7" GK is a bonus but he can be beaten low.
Kean----This 4th NJAC team is NOT nearly as good as the Top 3 in the NJAC. UMASS Boston handled them rather easily 3-0, the game was closer than the score but again a Pool C to team that was not Top 6 in their own conference and then a shellacking opened my eyes.
Watching MSU vCNU last night I finally saw MSU's very leaky defense LIVE. Firstplacecloser told us all year how bad they defensively but when I saw the beat RUN and Rowan in the NJAC Tournament I just saw the opposite. Their defense worked hard and while not completely organized they got the job done. LAST NIGHT MSU was a disaster defensively. The 1st Half was a free flowing fun game to watch but the 2nd Half after MSU failed to even the match up 2-2 they CAVED. CNU took advantage went up 3-1 and MSU panicked and started SENDING everyone forward with 35 minutes left. It was to early as MSU could have come back from 3-1 but there team is very unorganized defensively and frankly do not play like a cohesive team. They have individual studs but they did not play like a cohesive unit last night and frankly that falls all on the coach.
Honestly, the biggest surprise for me was RUN only beating New England College 1-0. New England College comes from the weakest league in the country possibly. They were not even a Top 2-3 side in that league. To only beat that team 1-0 is concerning and the Shots looked somewhat even as this was a game they should have had a 30-4 Shot advantage and a 4-5 goal win. What does is all mean? Maybe nothing but ETOWN might have a great chance to get back to the Sweet 16 in like 20 years if RUN comes out asleep again.
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2016, 06:59:38 AM
Quote from: mjan on November 12, 2016, 11:11:40 PM
Montclair State another 1st round knock out 5-1. When was that last year they made it out of the first round?
It got very cold last night so I did not stay for the second half, but the first half was a wide open, up-and-down game--the kind of game in which Lucas Terci could very well have scored at least one goal (in that half). Both teams were dangerous, but MSU would surely have been more dangerous than they were (they probably get more SOG than they did), if he had been in there, and perhaps it's a 2-2 tie at the half instead of 2-1 in favor of CNU. We aren't going to know.
What we do know is that Terci played his last collegiate game in the NJAC semifinal. The significance of that red card (his second for the season) was magnified last night.
The first game went pretty much as expected, though (if anything) Messiah played even better than I had anticipated. A nearly perfect game for them. If they do it again tonight, then CNU's season will be over. But, they don't play 'em on paper, and I expect CNU to be the toughest opponent Messiah has faced all year. It could go either way. Indeed, IMO, every remaining game on Messiah's schedule now features a Final-Four quality opponent. I don't think that can be said for the other three top seeds. Whoever comes out of next week's sectional will have earned it.
Falconer, we're on the same page about MSU. Don't forget that in addition to Terci supposedly another senior star, Bziukiewicz, quit. Maybe that's not true, but if it is, there's a volatility there that would concern me if I was a MSU fan. We'll see what CNU can do with Messiah. The concern on this site seemed almost exclusive to MSU as an early (and unfair?) threat to Messiah. CNU is certainly a more than fair challenge for a 2nd round game for a #1 seed.
That said, I think you're going too far as a Messiah surrogate. Messiah isn't the only #1 seed that could face Final Four type teams the rest of the way. I'll give you Chicago. DePauw, Redlands, UWW, Luther, etc are all good teams but not great teams. Any of them beating Chicago would be considered a massive upset. Carthage was the one team I thought could give the Maroons a run for their money and they are gone. Amherst is the next closest, basically getting a bye all the way into the Sweet 16. Brandeis could beat them and RUN or Oneonta could beat team. Would be considered upsets but not major ones. Amherst will have to win two tough but winnable games. Rowan's draw, though, fairly matches Messiah's. Want to switch CNU and Tufts right now because you think Tufts would be an easier game? Then potentially Haverford (or even UMass-Boston), followed by Trinity or Lynchburg/Kenyon? The Messiah and Rowan draws are very similar IMO.
There
are teams that have a much easier road to the Sweet 16 than others. As noted, Chicago and Amherst basically got byes to the Sweet 16. Brandeis will have had to beat only WNEC and St. Josephs. Oneonta only St John Fisher and Eastern. RUN only NE College and E'town (I know E'town is good but that's still not a blockbuster opponent). UWW, Benedictine, Luther and STU all have to like their chances with no huge heavyweight standing in the way. Trinity is a big favorite in both of their pod games to advance.
Calvin actually may have gotten the toughest overall draw among contenders, with ONU, CMU and probably Messiah and at least CNU.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 09:43:57 AM
A ton of the questionable Pool C bids that teams got are showing that the committee really has no clue...WAKE UP...
UR--losing to Eastern 2-0
OWU----losing a tight game to CMU but that was not a great OWU side and did not look like a OWU side of old.
SLU---Did not deserve their bid after finishing the season 2-3-0 and then got dispatched on PK's to W&L..Tough way to go out but that SLU side was average at best.
Dubuque--10 men or not a Pool C team should not be losing to a weaker AQ from a weak league.
Wash U---Tough match v Redlands but they coughed up a 2-0 lead with 15 minutes left. Another UAA team to lose.
Babson----Overrated and over ranked all year this team was anemic up front and lose to a weak AQ from a weak league. St.Joe's 6'7" GK is a bonus but he can be beaten low.
Kean----This 4th NJAC team is NOT nearly as good as the Top 3 in the NJAC. UMASS Boston handled them rather easily 3-0, the game was closer than the score but again a Pool C to team that was not Top 6 in their own conference and then a shellacking opened my eyes.
Agreed. Basically every one of those teams backed into the tournament, and none of them should have felt aggrieved had they not been selected. At least this year shows that the emphasis on SoS and RvR can result in questionable decisions. Midd must look at that list and shake their collective heads (although, in fairness, Midd would have backed in as well).
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 10:20:56 AM
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2016, 06:59:38 AM
Quote from: mjan on November 12, 2016, 11:11:40 PM
Montclair State another 1st round knock out 5-1. When was that last year they made it out of the first round?
It got very cold last night so I did not stay for the second half, but the first half was a wide open, up-and-down game--the kind of game in which Lucas Terci could very well have scored at least one goal (in that half). Both teams were dangerous, but MSU would surely have been more dangerous than they were (they probably get more SOG than they did), if he had been in there, and perhaps it's a 2-2 tie at the half instead of 2-1 in favor of CNU. We aren't going to know.
What we do know is that Terci played his last collegiate game in the NJAC semifinal. The significance of that red card (his second for the season) was magnified last night.
The first game went pretty much as expected, though (if anything) Messiah played even better than I had anticipated. A nearly perfect game for them. If they do it again tonight, then CNU's season will be over. But, they don't play 'em on paper, and I expect CNU to be the toughest opponent Messiah has faced all year. It could go either way. Indeed, IMO, every remaining game on Messiah's schedule now features a Final-Four quality opponent. I don't think that can be said for the other three top seeds. Whoever comes out of next week's sectional will have earned it.
Falconer, we're on the same page about MSU. Don't forget that in addition to Terci supposedly another senior star, Bziukiewicz, quit. Maybe that's not true, but if it is, there's a volatility there that would concern me if I was a MSU fan. We'll see what CNU can do with Messiah. The concern on this site seemed almost exclusive to MSU as an early (and unfair?) threat to Messiah. CNU is certainly a more than fair challenge for a 2nd round game for a #1 seed.
That said, I think you're going too far as a Messiah surrogate. Messiah isn't the only #1 seed that could face Final Four type teams the rest of the way. I'll give you Chicago. DePauw, Redlands, UWW, Luther, etc are all good teams but not great teams. Any of them beating Chicago would be considered a massive upset. Carthage was the one team I thought could give the Maroons a run for their money and they are gone. Amherst is the next closest, basically getting a bye all the way into the Sweet 16. Brandeis could beat them and RUN or Oneonta could beat team. Would be considered upsets but not major ones. Amherst will have to win two tough but winnable games. Rowan's draw, though, fairly matches Messiah's. Want to switch CNU and Tufts right now because you think Tufts would be an easier game? Then potentially Haverford (or even UMass-Boston), followed by Trinity or Lynchburg/Kenyon? The Messiah and Rowan draws are very similar IMO.
There are teams that have a much easier road to the Sweet 16 than others. As noted, Chicago and Amherst basically got byes to the Sweet 16. Brandeis will have had to beat only WNEC and St. Josephs. Oneonta only St John Fisher and Eastern. RUN only NE College and E'town (I know E'town is good but that's still not a blockbuster opponent). UWW, Benedictine, Luther and STU all have to like their chances with no huge heavyweight standing in the way. Trinity is a big favorite in both of their pod games to advance.
Calvin actually may have gotten the toughest overall draw among contenders, with ONU, CMU and probably Messiah and at least CNU.
We agree, NCAC, that Calvin's draw might have been even tougher than Messiah's--but, that's supposed to be the case, if you aren't a number one seed. I don't think I overstated the point, saying that Messiah will probably face a Final Four quality team all the way through (now that round one is over), and that no other number one seed has that facing them. I enjoy differences of opinion on things like this, so I'll defend mine.
IMO, neither Haverford nor UMASS nor Tufts is a Final Four team--I'd certainly swap Tufts for either CNU or Calvin. Trinity is a Final Four quality team, and we might indeed see Trinity vs Rowan in the Elite Eight. Rowan would face only one of the combination Trinity-Lynchburg-Kenyon, and I am not persuaded that either of the others is top drawer at this point in this season. On the other hand, Messiah is now looking at CNU, Calvin, and then probably F&M or Cortland. Perhaps Cortland is Final Four quality; I have yet to see them play. F&M certainly is that quality. Both Calvin and CNU are that quality, IMO. Next week's sectional could actually feature four teams, all of them of Final Four quality. Where else will that happen? So, that's why I made that claim.
In a couple of weeks, of course, we'll all know who has proved to be Final Four quality--and that's the bottom line, regardless of how tough it is to get there.
Falconer, we'll just have to agree to disagree. First of all, I wasn't bringing in Calvin regarding your argument about the #1 seeds. Secondly, CNU looks formidable now after a 5-1 thumping of MSU, but I think most of us agree that basing opinions on MSU results is a haphazard proposition. I don't think you have any real basis to suggest that CNU and F&M are more legit Final Four candidates than Haverford or Kenyon or even Tufts. I mean, Haverford just beat F&M last week. And I would think most would consider CNU versus either Lynchburg or Kenyon as toss-up games. I will give you this...Messiah except for yesterday does not have an easy path, although we are talking about Messiah, home field advantage, and the Messiah tradition.
BTW, Falconer or FW, is the Danny Rowe on the broadcast team for Lynchburg the Messiah Danny Rowe? The lead announcer Joe Hurtzler is certainly a professional and entertaining "voice of the Hornets." His commercial with him out of the field at night by himself is classic. Another one of the better broadcasts for a D3 school.
i think everyone saw the MSU that i've been trying to tell you guys about.. Granted their two best players weren't playing(terri red card) and buckiwitz quit right before the NJAC tournament. Newark is another team... they are good don't get me wrong but top 10 in the country? NO. i will be watching rowan tonight as well as the messiah and cnu game. good luck to all
Amherst goes up early on Daniel Webster 1-0 in what could be the "easiest" path to the Sweet 16 in NCAA D3 History...Game could end up being 5-0.
In a very even game and well played game so far Haverford has its full with UMASS Boston today. Could be one of the better games today.
Brandeis and St.Joseph's(ME) just underway
Kenyon takes an early 1-0 lead against Lynchburg at Lynchburg. Here's the history of Lynchburg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchburg,_Virginia#History
Quote from: golordsiamlord on November 13, 2016, 01:19:44 PM
Kenyon takes an early 1-0 lead against Lynchburg at Lynchburg. Here's the history of Lynchburg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynchburg,_Virginia#History
Should have been two with the Eudy miss. LC not tidy in the back as I said yesterday - and the Kenyon keeper commits a boneheaded play to level the score. If I had a nickel for every over-aggressive keeper mistake this year I'd have a lot of nickels.
Haverford goes up on UMASS Boston 1-0 on a set piece goal right outside the box. This has been a well played game but the ref doing no favors for UMASS Boston. UMB is starting to get agitated with the ref and this is when they start to lose control. They can easily get back in this game but if they continue to focus their negative energy on the ref they will be finished. We have seen this story before with UMASS Boston and hopefully for their sake they can regain their composure as they are right in this game.
UMASS Boston hanging in there with Haverford but Haverford has started to control the game the last 20 minutes of the Half. Haverford can finish this game off IMO with 1 more goal. Let's see if Beverlin gets UMASS Boston pushing numbers forward more the 2nd Half. Williamson has been a non-factor in the game so far.
Brandeis all over St.Joseph's(ME) 2-0 at the Half and should breeze to a Sweet 16 match-up with Amherst. Amherst might be looking for revenge from 2014 when Brandeis defeated Amherst in Pk's in the Sweet 16 up at Oneonta.
St Thomas up 1-0 with a goal 3 minutes into the match.
Both teams looking pretty sharp. Luther moves the ball very nicely.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 12:52:14 PM
BTW, Falconer or FW, is the Danny Rowe on the broadcast team for Lynchburg the Messiah Danny Rowe? The lead announcer Joe Hurtzler is certainly a professional and entertaining "voice of the Hornets." His commercial with him out of the field at night by himself is classic. Another one of the better broadcasts for a D3 school.
I don't know--that's a good question.
UMB is out of control, one red card, and losing their composure. Can't even count the number of yellow cards.
LOL....Yes Umass Boston is showing its ugly side..Straight Red, cheap shots, yellows, etc...UMB pushing #'s forward with 15 minutes left and Haverford has missed 2 sitters and a PK. Still a 1-0 game but UMASS Boston has not had a really dangerous chance 2nd Half...Still time though
UMB with their best chance in the 84th minute just wide...Haverford has defended very well and not allowing Williamson to turn with the ball. Still if he gets the ball on his left foot he has an absolute bullet.
2 minutes I typed that about Williamson he gets his chance and knots the game up...1-1 Umass Boston and Haverford....Williamson was allowed to turn and finished it....Haverford still up a man but the missed Pk and the missed rs while UMB was pushing forward really hurts now
another red card?
OMG, I've never seen such awful behavior. Second red for OMB after they tied. score is 1-1
UMB will be down to 9 men after I think Williamson HEAD BUtted a Haverford player...That would be a big loss if its Williamson. Haverford kid looks like he cannot continue after that hit..
Literally just punched a Ford player
This game has been completely dangerous. Just awful to watch.
It was Williamson and that is a HUGE loss for UMB...Just lost it...This game has officially moved into the gutter but UMB if they advance somehow will sorely miss Khang and Williamson...will they bunker in for the 2 OT's? Or do they just come out and play 9 v 11 straight up...I would bet the bunker instyle...
The game has been paused for 10 minutes do to so much chaos
Quote from: FelixCloudy on November 13, 2016, 03:06:20 PM
This game has been completely dangerous. Just awful to watch.
Well UMB can be chippy but Haverford should have put this game away A LONG TIME AGO....They missed 2 sitters and a PK...Now 11 v 9 they should go on to win but still
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 03:07:12 PM
It was Williamson and that is a HUGE loss for UMB...Just lost it...This game has officially moved into the gutter but UMB if they advance somehow will sorely miss Khang and Williamson...will they bunker in for the 2 OT's? Or do they just come out and play 9 v 11 straight up...I would bet the bunker instyle...
The game has been paused for 10 minutes do to so much chaos
What did they say? 10 minutes to "cool off"?
Did you see the red card where the guy kicked the ball into the face of Nicholson - who is wearing a mask because his nose is broken? The conduct of the OMB players has been just horrible.
What the heck is going on in this UMB Ford game. What a disaster.
And Oneonta scores in OT off a set piece as the place EXPLODES to give Oneonta the Sweet 16 berth
Kenyon nets a winner in the first period of OT. Henry Myers with his second goal of the match. Kenyon moves on to the sweet 16 for the 4th consecutive season.
Lords win!
Never seen Kenyon play a quality opponent that was that physical. Lynchburg is huge and hit Kenyon on every challenged ball. Jeon himself got clobbered about 7 or 8 times.
Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2016, 03:14:50 PM
What the heck is going on in this UMB Ford game. What a disaster.
Just a little Sunday entertainment....Good game otherwise besies UMB antics
QuoteUMB can be chippy
Are you watching the same game I am? This is way more than chippy...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 03:18:11 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2016, 03:14:50 PM
What the heck is going on in this UMB Ford game. What a disaster.
Just a little Sunday entertainment....Good game otherwise besies UMB antics
I had just tuned into the game in time to see the equalizer and then soon after everything went to pot. I thought I saw a UMB player standing near a Haverford player and then with little contact the Haverford player dropped like he had just been hit by a 2x4. No rewind so I don't know what happened. The ball was not even in play at the time. Would like to be able to rewind and watch what happened..
Quote from: FelixCloudy on November 13, 2016, 03:19:07 PM
QuoteUMB can be chippy
Are you watching the same game I am? This is way more than chippy...
Ill give you dirty / chippy...but its the poor v rich, privileged v rags, prep v public, etc etc....New England fans know what they are getting into when watching UMB especially when they go down but I am more amazed they found the composure to tie up the game with 3 minutes left and Haverford blew the game
Tuning in to this Haverford game. How in the world did UMB get two red cards? Did anyone actually see what the fouls were given out for?
Go back and read my game posts...It will catch you up because I m to lazy to explain everything again
Brandeis won relatively comfortably over SJC 3-0. I was predicting that they'd have to play Babson but SJC sprung the upset on PKs yesterday. All three goals were scrappy but the Judges looked the best I have seen all year. Brito at CB has improved massively and new LB Vinson - a D1 transfer - definitely solidifies the defense. Ocel ran the show at CM. They'll play Amherst next week and while the Jeffs will be favorites on their home field Brandeis is confident and playing its best soccer of the season and will be confident.
Mr.Right absolutely correct about the culture clash but what is sad is one would hope UMB would not play/behave to stereotype. Now if the prevail Rowan or Tufts will almost get a walkover to Elite 8.
UMB going to win..
OMG!
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Mr.Right absolutely correct about the culture clash but what is sad is one would hope UMB would not play/behave to stereotype. Now if the prevail Rowan or Tufts will almost get a walkover to Elite 8.
WOW....What a gutty win for UMB...Besides the antics they really gutted this out...I was impressed with UMB before and am even more impressed they drew the game in the 87th minute and won in Pk's.....
UMB is talented enough that it would not be a walkover...They almost scored 9 v 11....Kenaway can still play and is their best player...Williamson is a HUGE LOSS but the gamne would not be a walkover like Amherst and Brandeis had today
Who was other player they lost?
They lost a defender who I believe can be replaced...
Devastating loss for Haverford on home field considering circumstances. A straight up loss would have been easier to take. UMass having dream season and I know they are very talented but wish all that stuff had not happened.
Number 8 got a red in the second half. He was playing center mid. Got pulled down from behind. Already on a yellow and got up and half volleyed the ball into a Haverford player (hit him square in the back I think).
I left shortly after that cause the quality of the game wasn't great. Too many fouls. Too much out of control stuff from UMass Boston.
It's actually a shame they advanced. With the way they behaved they deserved for their season to end today.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 04:02:46 PM
Devastating loss for Haverford on home field considering circumstances. A straight up loss would have been easier to take. UMass having dream season and I know they are very talented but wish all that stuff had not happened.
Will Williamson return for sophomore year at age 29?
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:03:18 PM
Number 8 got a red in the second half. He was playing center mid. Got pulled down from behind. Already on a yellow and got up and half volleyed the ball into a Haverford player (hit him square in the back I think).
I left shortly after that cause the quality of the game wasn't great. Too many fouls. Too much out of control stuff from UMass Boston.
It's actually a shame they advanced. With the way they behaved they deserved for their season to end today.
Instead they will feel quite vindicated. A question is whether they would get Williamson back for Elite 8 if they somehow pulled off the next one. I guessing no, although I wasn't watching this game until after the fireworks.
St Thomas 2-0 over Luther.
Can't beat the D3 men's soccer tournament for heartbreak and elation (and some controversy).
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:03:18 PM
Number 8 got a red in the second half. He was playing center mid. Got pulled down from behind. Already on a yellow and got up and half volleyed the ball into a Haverford player (hit him square in the back I think).
I left shortly after that cause the quality of the game wasn't great. Too many fouls. Too much out of control stuff from UMass Boston.
It's actually a shame they advanced. With the way they behaved they deserved for their season to end today.
Sour grapes...Can't blame the whole team on 2 stupid players doing stupid things....Haverford MISSED A PK AND 2 SITTERS to put the thing away 2nd Half and DID NOT...It was Haverfords game and they blew it themselves...
The announcers mentioned him potentially head butting the referee. Anyone else see that or announcers just saying random stuff?
Also, number 25 apparently headbutted Corkery 15 minutes into half. Corkery made a meal of it but the Umass Boston parent I was sitting next too said he absolutely headbutted him. Refs got together but I think all 3 guys on that side of field just missed it.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:03:18 PM
Number 8 got a red in the second half. He was playing center mid. Got pulled down from behind. Already on a yellow and got up and half volleyed the ball into a Haverford player (hit him square in the back I think).
I left shortly after that cause the quality of the game wasn't great. Too many fouls. Too much out of control stuff from UMass Boston.
It's actually a shame they advanced. With the way they behaved they deserved for their season to end today.
Yup, Haverford could not let that game go to PKs. Basically knew then how it was going to end. Great career for Corkery.
Sour grapes...Can't blame the whole team on 2 stupid players doing stupid things....Haverford MISSED A PK AND 2 SITTERS to put the thing away 2nd Half and DID NOT...It was Haverfords game and they blew it themselves...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:03:18 PM
Number 8 got a red in the second half. He was playing center mid. Got pulled down from behind. Already on a yellow and got up and half volleyed the ball into a Haverford player (hit him square in the back I think).
I left shortly after that cause the quality of the game wasn't great. Too many fouls. Too much out of control stuff from UMass Boston.
It's actually a shame they advanced. With the way they behaved they deserved for their season to end today.
Sour grapes...Can't blame the whole team on 2 stupid players doing stupid things....Haverford MISSED A PK AND 2 SITTERS to put the thing away 2nd Half and DID NOT...It was Haverfords game and they blew it themselves...
I think your assuming I'm a Haverford fan? I'm not. I just went to see a good game. Haverford may have blown the game, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a team/bench totally out of control who advanced. I would rather teams who don't behave that way win.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:07:23 PM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:03:18 PM
Number 8 got a red in the second half. He was playing center mid. Got pulled down from behind. Already on a yellow and got up and half volleyed the ball into a Haverford player (hit him square in the back I think).
I left shortly after that cause the quality of the game wasn't great. Too many fouls. Too much out of control stuff from UMass Boston.
It's actually a shame they advanced. With the way they behaved they deserved for their season to end today.
Sour grapes...Can't blame the whole team on 2 stupid players doing stupid things....Haverford MISSED A PK AND 2 SITTERS to put the thing away 2nd Half and DID NOT...It was Haverfords game and they blew it themselves...
Nothing "Sour Grapes" about his post. Glad to hear you like your American football on a Sunday. The coach can and should control the Stupid things TWO of his players did.
The announcers mentioned him potentially head butting the referee. Anyone else see that or announcers just saying random stuff?
I did see the whole game, and the UMB player headbutted the ref AFTER first throwing a FORD player to the ground. The game was awful, after the FORDS score. UMB just totally lost control - not just the two players who received straight reds - but the entire squad. The refs actually requested security from Haverford, and called for the 10 minute cool off period.
But I also agree that the Fords should have beaten UMB as they were 2 men down during the 2 OT's. But most of that game wasn't futbol, it was mayhem. UMB shouldn't advance on conduct like that.
How many teams had to play two ranked teams back-to-back in the first and second rounds? Some teams have a substantially easier path to the Sweet 16 than others.
Give me a Break....UMASS Boston conduct was nothing different than you would see on an Amherst bench and those kids are "privileged"...Again SOUR GRAPES...I am not a UMB parent or fan just a neutral and yes they were chippy but the game was a great game 1st Half as both teams kept the ball on the floor..Nothing American Football about it...UMASS Boston kids are good kids just get heated within the moment they were not brought up with silver spoons in their mouths...Haverford had a 11 v 9 advantage for 20 minutes, they had the last 15 minutes of the game whenUMB was pushing numbers forward missed 2 SITTERS an then a kid got a PK in the 2nd Half and shanked it off the outer post. Again, They blew it themselves....
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:46:51 PM
Give me a Break....UMASS Boston conduct was nothing different than you would see on an Amherst bench and those kids are "privileged"...Again SOUR GRAPES...I am not a UMB parent or fan just a neutral and yes they were chippy but the game was a great game 1st Half as both teams kept the ball on the floor..Nothing American Football about it...UMASS Boston kids are good kids just get heated within the moment they were not brought up with silver spoons in their mouths...Haverford had a 11 v 9 advantage for 20 minutes, they had the last 15 minutes of the game whenUMB was pushing numbers forward missed 2 SITTERS an then a kid got a PK in the 2nd Half and shanked it off the outer post. Again, They blew it themselves....
Their player headbutted a referee. Have you seen that from Amherst? Again you keep talking about Haverford blowing it. That's not really what any of us are discussing?
Also one more thing. I have no idea why you keep mentioning sour grapes. I am not a Haverford fan. I feel like your not following the conversation or having some other comprehension issue here.
Ok Im done..Bottom line...UMB advances and Haverford season is over...That is all that will be remembered..Can we please move on to Messiah v CNU and Tufts v Rowan...
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:46:51 PM
Give me a Break....UMASS Boston conduct was nothing different than you would see on an Amherst bench and those kids are "privileged"...Again SOUR GRAPES...I am not a UMB parent or fan just a neutral and yes they were chippy but the game was a great game 1st Half as both teams kept the ball on the floor..Nothing American Football about it...UMASS Boston kids are good kids just get heated within the moment they were not brought up with silver spoons in their mouths...Haverford had a 11 v 9 advantage for 20 minutes, they had the last 15 minutes of the game whenUMB was pushing numbers forward missed 2 SITTERS an then a kid got a PK in the 2nd Half and shanked it off the outer post. Again, They blew it themselves....
Their player headbutted a referee. Have you seen that from Amherst? Again you keep talking about Haverford blowing it. That's not really what any of us are discussing?
Yes we saw a Thomas player last year Tre Ming headbutt a ref in the NCAA's at Brandeis..So yes we just saw it last year...
Really, really proud of Kenyon for pulling through against a very solid, very physical team that was 17-1-4 and undefeated on its home field. Lynchburg was right up to the edge of dirty. Must have been told to hit Kenyon hard on every challenge. Kenyon was better team but Lynchburg easily could have won. #13 for the Hornets is an excellent players...their smallest player but a real pest. Clougher had to make tough save late. Brown took a chance not bringing regulars in last 10 minutes but paid off iin OT as Lynchburg could not get out of own end.
Myers has got to be a 1st team AA and maybe Lowry too. Excellent centerbacks and Resnekov has started playing really well at left back. If Kenyon gets Trinity next I think some will be surprised at how well the Lords play against them. And if Tufts beats Rowan maybe Trinity and Kenyon will be coming to Massachusetts!
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:57:49 PM
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 04:52:18 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 04:46:51 PM
Give me a Break....UMASS Boston conduct was nothing different than you would see on an Amherst bench and those kids are "privileged"...Again SOUR GRAPES...I am not a UMB parent or fan just a neutral and yes they were chippy but the game was a great game 1st Half as both teams kept the ball on the floor..Nothing American Football about it...UMASS Boston kids are good kids just get heated within the moment they were not brought up with silver spoons in their mouths...Haverford had a 11 v 9 advantage for 20 minutes, they had the last 15 minutes of the game whenUMB was pushing numbers forward missed 2 SITTERS an then a kid got a PK in the 2nd Half and shanked it off the outer post. Again, They blew it themselves....
Their player headbutted a referee. Have you seen that from Amherst? Again you keep talking about Haverford blowing it. That's not really what any of us are discussing?
Yes we saw a Thomas player last year Tre Ming headbutt a ref in the NCAA's at Brandeis..So yes we just saw it last year...
You mentioned it being something Amherst does every game. Then when asked if thy have headbutted a ref you mentioned Thomas? Again, your struggling in comprehension here.
-k for starting to rile me up....Who said UMB does that every game? You are ASSUMING things.That was the 1st time you watched UMB all season..One game does not equal every game..-k today for riling me up, -k tomorrow for comprehension statements and a possible yellow for insubordination
Quote from: luckylefty on November 13, 2016, 05:08:01 PM
You mentioned it being something Amherst does every game. Then when asked if thy have headbutted a ref you mentioned Thomas? Again, your struggling in comprehension here.
* You're
Sorry, had to.
I don't understand what you're talking about.
Haverford looks to be graduating a fair bit. For those who have seen them more then I, do they have the pieces on their bench? I've never seen anyone hit restarts like Corkery. Going to be almost impossible to replace that.
Tufts up 1-0 on Rowan in a game they look very confident in. Rowan looks a bit hesitant so far. Pretty even game but maybe after the goal Rowan will settle down and start attacking and getting more dangerous chances
Mr.Right, if Tufts wins do you think Tufts will host with two Boston area teams and Trinity/Kenyon?
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 05:37:49 PM
Mr.Right, if Tufts wins do you think Tufts will host with two Boston area teams and Trinity/Kenyon?
Well I believe UMASS Boston should host but since they do not have a home field I am not sure the situation. I would imagine the committee giving it to one of the Mass teams to save money but we have seen strange bracket hostings before and if they feel Kenyon deserves to host then they might be hosting...I would give it a 75% chance if Tufts holds on the the pod would be in Boston which we would all be rooting for in New England.
Mr. R, -k for somehow throwing Amherst into today's mess. Seriously, where's the bottom to your weird fixation? I'd love to know the genesis story to your vitriol.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 05:45:10 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 05:37:49 PM
Mr.Right, if Tufts wins do you think Tufts will host with two Boston area teams and Trinity/Kenyon?
Well I believe UMASS Boston should host but since they do not have a home field I am not sure the situation. I would imagine the committee giving it to one of the Mass teams to save money but we have seen strange bracket hostings before and if they feel Kenyon deserves to host then they might be hosting...I would give it a 75% chance if Tufts holds on the the pod would be in Boston which we would all be rooting for in New England.
Kenyon didn't apply to host.
@Mr. Right...Absolutely embarrassing that you would compare a 28 year old man who was arrested today for attacking a Haverford player and then headbutting a referee to the Amherst bench. I played at Amherst for 4 years and no player received a straight red card in my time there, and there was for sure never an instance where police were called to the field. It's too bad that someone like you who cares so much about d3 soccer has so little credibility to his name in the d3 soccer world because of your clear lack of judgment. Many of my fellow Amherst and non-amherst Nescac soccer alums feel the same exact way
LOL was he arrested...Jesus? I was comparing Amherst bench antics to Umass Boston bench antics which luckylefty mentioned they should not have advanced...Take ur purple and white blinders off...Amherst has not head butted a ref but they are not choirboys over there...
Please enough with all this nonsense i am trying to watch the Jumbos and see if they can advance to the Sweet 16
Chicago starts 4 freshman, 4sophmores and two juniors. Up 1-0 on Westminster in the second minute.
@Mr. Right...In the future it might be worth making sure you have some semblance of an idea as to what is going on regarding a certain situation before posting an egregiously hot take on a public online forum
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
LOL was he arrested...Jesus? I was comparing Amherst bench antics to Umass Boston bench antics which luckylefty mentioned they should not have advanced...Take ur purple and white blinders off...Amherst has not head butted a ref but they are not choirboys over there...
As I was leaving the game I saw their #77 getting driven away in a Cop car. Rumor was it was because he headbutted the ref and thus assaulted the referree. The stoppage of play was because the NCAA was trying to figure out whether or not to end the game with UMB forfeiting for their conduct. I suppose the ref decided to let it continue but truly the most classless performance from a team I've ever seen in my entire life
Quote from: phillyfan12 on November 13, 2016, 06:20:43 PM
As I was leaving the game I saw their #77 getting driven away in a Cop car. Rumor was it was because he headbutted the ref and thus assaulted the referree. The stoppage of play was because the NCAA was trying to figure out whether or not to end the game with UMB forfeiting for their conduct. I suppose the ref decided to let it continue but truly the most classless performance from a team I've ever seen in my entire life
Interestingly enough, as Mr.Right said, Tre Ming of Thomas headbutted the referee last year in the Terriers' game against Brandeis and received a red card, although I didn't hear about any retroactive action being taken against him: he was a senior, but I was surprised that some type of discipline wasn't imposed (to my knowledge). Perhaps he should have been arrested, too? I didn't see the game Haverford vs. UMB game, but would be curious to see the footage to be able to make my own observation, as making any (violent and intentional) physical contact with a referee is absolutely unacceptable.
Tufts really playing well against Rowan, giving them nothing offensively. They have not had a legit sniff all game. Tufts playing some good futbol with a lot of confidence right now.
Benidicine up 2-0 over UWW a little over midway thru the first half. Surprising score line. Would have expected that to be reversed...
Looks like Benedictine is better than folks anticipated.
Chicago having their way with Westminster - had to turn it if.
Looking at Williamson's bio, age and previous college and professional experience: how is he eligible to play for Boston?
Greenwood once again shaky on a ball into the box, dropping it in traffic. Gets away with it as the Rowan player shoots into the side netting. Man he's a great goalkeeper and made a fantastic save earlier in the game, and he has definitely improved on his command of his area this year, but that will really be an area of concern for Tufts if he doesn't sort that out.
UWW gets one back with about 5 left in the first half.
Tremendous game tonight in Grantham. Messiah marginally more in control for most of the first half, got a great goal by Jacob Bender on a one-two to lead 1-0 at the half.
After a CNU defender got a second card, with a man down the Captains almost tied it when, after a few minutes of kamikaze style attacking (I have to hand it to them, they took the game over) a man went down in the box for a PK. The Falcon keeper, Connor Bell, somehow got a hand on it, but it went right back to the same man who shot again and Bell saved it. Later on, he saved 2 or 3 more shots. Haven't seen a Falcon keeper rise to the occasion just as big, in a big game, in quite some time.
Late in the second half, with CNU now down two men (the second red was a straight red for something verbal), Messiah got another goal. Both goals still being peppered, believe it or not, but the Falcons lead 2-0 with less than 2 minutes left.
This was indeed a Final Four quality game for both teams.
Sadly, two cheap shot fouls by CNU in the last 10 seconds, as the Falcons were simply playing keepaway. Both men were fouled without the ball. A yellow card in the last second of your season, I suppose, is meaningless--but not morally meaningless.
Deserved win for Tufts, who outplayed Rowan for the majority of the game. Good for Majumder, getting a goal in a big game in what has definitely been a tough year for him - form is temporary, class is permanent, and he is a top-class striker. Even without Williamson you can bet that feisty UMASS-Boston will be a test for the Jumbos, and - should they get by the Beacons - they could well see either Trinity or Kenyon in the following round. Final 4 is certainly possible, but it will not be a cakewalk for the Jumbos. That said, if the last two years are anything to go by, its that Tufts plays its best soccer in November.
Tufts gets the convincing victory over Rowan 1-0. They go down to Jersey and pick up another 2 shutouts to reach the Sweet 16. They are playing very confidently right now and besides the Bowdoin losses they have 1 loss in the last 2 months. Certainly they are playing with as much confidence right now as any team in the country. That is why I thought the 2 Bowdoin wins over Tufts was enough to get them into the NCAA's. That is how well Tufts has been playing lately. It is nothing flashy just very workmanlike and playing as a very cohesive unit. Tehy looked much better tonight than they did last night against Springfield where their defense showed some holes
How legit is this Chicago team??
These guys seem to have come out of nowhere and are very very good.
The question is, are we seeing a new power come on the National stage to stay??
Sad to the season end for the Scranton Royals at SUNY Cortland. 2-1; Cortland scored twice in the first half and Scranton was pressing for the equalizer for the last 15 minutes of so. Back to Back Landmark Championships for this program; they graduate a ton of seniors so hoping they can keep it up next year. Good Luck to SUNY Cortland the rest of the way.
Quote from: Falconer on November 13, 2016, 06:59:36 PM
Tremendous game tonight in Grantham. Messiah marginally more in control for most of the first half, got a great goal by Jacob Bender on a one-two to lead 1-0 at the half.
After a CNU defender got a second card, with a man down the Captains almost tied it when, after a few minutes of kamikaze style attacking (I have to hand it to them, they took the game over) a man went down in the box for a PK. The Falcon keeper, Connor Bell, somehow got a hand on it, but it went right back to the same man who shot again and Bell saved it. Later on, he saved 2 or 3 more shots. Haven't seen a Falcon keeper rise to the occasion just as big, in a big game, in quite some time.
Late in the second half, with CNU now down two men (the second red was a straight red for something verbal), Messiah got another goal. Both goals still being peppered, believe it or not, but the Falcons lead 2-0 with less than 2 minutes left.
This was indeed a Final Four quality game for both teams.
We'll take the win. Not pretty at times..lots of high pressure. For early part of second half Messiah played well and possessed well. Got much tougher last 20-25 minutes. This one was a nail biter for sure.
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 13, 2016, 07:03:58 PM
How legit is this Chicago team??
These guys seem to have come out of nowhere and are very very good.
The question is, are we seeing a new power come on the National stage to stay??
In my opinion, they are very legit. Whether that means they can be the first UAA side to get to the Final 4 since NYU in 2006 is another question, but if there has ever been a UAA team with the potential to do that it's this one IMHO.
Desai up top is a very, very good striker, and I think is playing his best as a senior. Koh and Lopez were both 1st Team All-UAA last year as freshmen, which is incredible - usually if a freshman comes in and get Honorable Mention, that's worth something, but both are very good players. Weis is also a very good CB and they have Bonin in goal who is a very good GK. Also freshman Adeyosun is extremely talented and would be my pick for UAA RoY.
This year they have emerged as arguably the preeminent team in the nation, but they've been building the last two years: two years ago, they won the UAA with a 5-0-2 conference record after having a so-so out-of-conference record (6-5 I think). Last year they brought Koh and Lopez in and - while they didn't win the UAA - they did come into form late season and took Kenyon to PKs in the 2nd Round. They have certainly taken it to a new level this year, but it has been coming - I guess that's what happens when you have an extremely strong spine and two promising underclassmen who have had a year to adjust to the college game.
Good win for the Jumbos. They seem to relish the underdog roll in the tourney. Shapiro used his subs superbly to stretch out the second half. Many players have been deep in the tourney and this experience may prove helpful against UMB. Welcome back Mr. Majumbder.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 13, 2016, 07:11:50 PM
Good win for the Jumbos. They seem to relish the underdog roll in the tourney. Shapiro used his subs superbly to stretch out the second half. Many players have been deep in the tourney and this experience may prove helpful against UMB. Welcome back Mr. Majumbder.
Certainly think that Tufts' experience could well be the difference. The only concern is that Tufts looked exceptionally vulnerable in the last 15 when Rowan started to flood the box with high balls - you can bet that UMB will have scouted that. That said, Tufts was the better side against a very good Rowan team today, on the Profs' home pitch, no less, and if they can repeat the quality of today's performance I think they'll be in the Elite 8.
Speaks well for the NESCAC that both of their NCAA teams have reached the Sweet 16.
Not only did Tufts barely make the tournament but in all likelihood will host, and will be favored over UMB especially with UMB star out. Then only have to beat Trinity (assuming Trinity wins and they are up 1-0) or Kenyon to get to Final Four. One reason teams with great records don't want borderline bid teams is because some are very dangerous. Two years in a row Tufts goes to Jersey and takes out a favorite for the national title. Congrats.
Watched most of the Messiah game. Announcers, especially the lead announcer, reverted to some old ways under pressure. A major homer with no comments about whether decisions on CNU might have been harsh and putting them down to 9 men a little over the top and over-involved from a ref point of view. After that one can expect a team and the coaches are going to on the edge of explosive. Even down to 10 men would have been interesting finish if CNU converts the PK which he probably should given to someone else because he was shaken up on the play resulting in the PK. CNU played hard and well while Messiah was a bit better.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 07:27:17 PM
Not only did Tufts barely make the tournament but in all likelihood will host.
As BF pointed out, Tufts seems to enjoy being the underdog in NCAAs, and I think part of that is that they have - at least in the last 4 years - always been on the road. They certainly have some good results at home playing on turf, particularly the 3-0 drubbing of Amherst, but they also lost to Wesleyan and Bowdoin at home this year, so you have to wonder if they'd rather be on the road?
(Then again, an alternate thought is that they've done it the hard way, and might like to be at home for once, but just a thought).
Quote from: blooter442 on November 13, 2016, 07:37:28 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 13, 2016, 07:27:17 PM
Not only did Tufts barely make the tournament but in all likelihood will host.
As BF pointed out, Tufts seems to enjoy being the underdog in NCAAs, and I think part of that is that they have - at least in the last 4 years - always been on the road. They certainly have some good results at home playing on turf, particularly the 3-0 drubbing of Amherst, but they also lost to Wesleyan and Bowdoin at home this year, so you have to wonder if they'd rather be on the road?
(Then again, an alternate thought is that they've done it the hard way, and might like to be at home for once, but just a thought).
I guess a question is whether they even applied given that they could have never expected the current scenario with both them and UMass-Boston advancing. If they did apply, they won't have a choice and will do whatever NCAA decides. Certainly can't see them flying 3 teams to San Antonio (or California). Will be interesting if none of the 3 other teams applied leaving Trinity as the only one. I'm getting conflicting info about Kenyon, but that still would be a plane ride for 3 teams.
Of course if you already have to fly two teams maybe three doesn't seem like much more, so that would put Trinity back in play (now up 2-0 late). And Trinity does have excellent video.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 13, 2016, 07:10:52 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 13, 2016, 07:03:58 PM
How legit is this Chicago team??
These guys seem to have come out of nowhere and are very very good.
The question is, are we seeing a new power come on the National stage to stay??
In my opinion, they are very legit. Whether that means they can be the first UAA side to get to the Final 4 since NYU in 2006 is another question, but if there has ever been a UAA team with the potential to do that it's this one IMHO.
Desai up top is a very, very good striker, and I think is playing his best as a senior. Koh and Lopez were both 1st Team All-UAA last year as freshmen, which is incredible - usually if a freshman comes in and get Honorable Mention, that's worth something, but both are very good players. Weis is also a very good CB and they have Bonin in goal who is a very good GK. Also freshman Adeyosun is extremely talented and would be my pick for UAA RoY.
This year they have emerged as arguably the preeminent team in the nation, but they've been building the last two years: two years ago, they won the UAA with a 5-0-2 conference record after having a so-so out-of-conference record (6-5 I think). Last year they brought Koh and Lopez in and - while they didn't win the UAA - they did come into form late season and took Kenyon to PKs in the 2nd Round. They have certainly taken it to a new level this year, but it has been coming - I guess that's what happens when you have an extremely strong spine and two promising underclassmen who have had a year to adjust to the college game.
IMO Blooter is pretty spot on with his analysis. desai was out today from his red card vs washu and was replaced by freshman Renato Corgi. Weis and his back line mates [two Sophs and a freshman] Have been outstanding in front of Bonin all year. Fast , cohesive and strong on the ball and in the air.
Quote from: phillyfan12 on November 13, 2016, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
LOL was he arrested...Jesus? I was comparing Amherst bench antics to Umass Boston bench antics which luckylefty mentioned they should not have advanced...Take ur purple and white blinders off...Amherst has not head butted a ref but they are not choirboys over there...
As I was leaving the game I saw their #77 getting driven away in a Cop car. Rumor was it was because he headbutted the ref and thus assaulted the referree. The stoppage of play was because the NCAA was trying to figure out whether or not to end the game with UMB forfeiting for their conduct. I suppose the ref decided to let it continue but truly the most classless performance from a team I've ever seen in my entire life
If somebody assaulted a referee in that manner the match should have been immediately called.
In an effort to move to a more positive topic, where do we think sectionals are going to be?
Amherst and Chicago obviously.
Bottom left is a mess...
Bottom right Messiah? (or did I read somewhere they couldn't host?) Calvin has to fly to any of the potential sites.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 06:30:42 PM
Tufts really playing well against Rowan, giving them nothing offensively. They have not had a legit sniff all game. Tufts playing some good futbol with a lot of confidence right now.
i was not very surprised about tufts absolutely man handling rowan tonight. rowan does not show up against teams who can challenge them. maybe in the beginning of season
but as of late they have not. looks as if newark is the only team left in the NJAC!
Of the remaining 16 teams in the NCAA Tournament...
13 of 16 were on the latest NSCAA Top 25
11 of 16 were on the latest D3soccer.com Top 25
(someone can double check me on this)
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 07:03:16 PM
Tufts gets the convincing victory over Rowan 1-0. They go down to Jersey and pick up another 2 shutouts to reach the Sweet 16. They are playing very confidently right now and besides the Bowdoin losses they have 1 loss in the last 2 months. Certainly they are playing with as much confidence right now as any team in the country. That is why I thought the 2 Bowdoin wins over Tufts was enough to get them into the NCAA's. That is how well Tufts has been playing lately. It is nothing flashy just very workmanlike and playing as a very cohesive unit. Tehy looked much better tonight than they did last night against Springfield where their defense showed some holes
Rowan had definitely been fading in the past few weeks with losses to Rut-Newark and Montclair. It caught up to them. When you play physical and rely on that to win games it can sometimes bite you when you play teams that just give it right back as in the two recent losses in the NJAC. Or when they face a team like Tufts that can absorb it and just play straight up soccer.
Quote from: wingtips2 on November 13, 2016, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: phillyfan12 on November 13, 2016, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
LOL was he arrested...Jesus? I was comparing Amherst bench antics to Umass Boston bench antics which luckylefty mentioned they should not have advanced...Take ur purple and white blinders off...Amherst has not head butted a ref but they are not choirboys over there...
As I was leaving the game I saw their #77 getting driven away in a Cop car. Rumor was it was because he headbutted the ref and thus assaulted the referree. The stoppage of play was because the NCAA was trying to figure out whether or not to end the game with UMB forfeiting for their conduct. I suppose the ref decided to let it continue but truly the most classless performance from a team I've ever seen in my entire life
If somebody assaulted a referee in that manner the match should have been immediately called.
this game seemed to be rather interesting and i'm pretty mad i missed it
Some take aways from the weekend...
Midwest Quadrant:
Chicago is elite, but Redlands will not be a pushover and has to be somewhat of a surprise to make it this far after their end of season woes and finishing 3-3-0 before NCAAs.
St. Thomas used the home field advantage and proved they belong. But wow this portion of the quadrant is weak. Winner of the Chicago vs Redlands game will be in the Final 4.
Transcontinental Quadrant:
No real surprises here from the first round winners but we had some quality match-ups in round 2! Rowan vs Tufts proved to be as real as the hype with the Jumbos surviving a nail biter in NJ. Haverford and UMass-Boston provided fireworks and another host team goes down. Trinity and Kenyon advance to provide a dream Sweet 16 match for us fans. This quadrant is a toss up and whoever survives will be battle tested enough to make a push for a title.
Northeast Quadrant:
One of two surprises has to be Rochester's early and bad exit thanks to Eastern. This helps the point many of us make when questioning the NCAA cmte decision on giving at-large bids to teams that aren't playing their best in the last few weeks of the season. UR finished their last 9 games with a grand record of 2-5-2. Tell us again how they were deserving of a bid? Ohio Wesleyan is another good example of this but at least they put up a fight. Does anyone really believe that Loras or Middlebury would have lost to Eastern?
Moving on, St. Joseph's stuns Babson only to run out of gas vs Brandeis. Amherst and Brandeis cruise to a heavyweight bout that everyone will be watching. Newark advances with ease while Oneonta is skating on thin ice. An Amherst vs Newark Elite 8 game is almost inevitable.
East Quadrant:
As expected in this quadrant too. SLU vs W&L was the blockbuster first round game that provided nothing short of a great game. W&L early season hype slowly faded after getting dismantled by Messiah and they never recovered. Cortland cruises and provides us with a great Sweet 16 match vs F&M. Flip a coin for that one.
Calvin quietly advancing to face their toughest test yet vs a confident but slightly nervous Messiah team. Look for Calvin to make the most of this game.
OWU and ONU with big disappointments, but to be fair both drew very difficult first round games. Newport thrashed Montclair but apparently scored too much as they couldn't find the back of the net vs Messiah. Messiah now has 15 shut outs in 22 games. Who doesn't want to see a Messiah vs Chicago final?!
Will we see a Mid-Atlantic championship game to advance to the Final 4 from this region? One can only hope ;D
Overall Thoughts:
Chicago has to be the overall favorite right now with Messiah close behind. The Midwest is a breeze for them while the Transcontinental is a toss up. Amherst is a slight favorite for the Northeast as is Messiah in the East. Should be a fun weekend of games!!
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2016, 08:53:12 AM
Some take aways from the weekend...
Midwest Quadrant:
Chicago is elite, but Redlands will not be a pushover and has to be somewhat of a surprise to make it this far after their end of season woes and finishing 3-3-0 before NCAAs.
St. Thomas used the home field advantage and proved they belong. But wow this portion of the quadrant is weak. Winner of the Chicago vs Redlands game will be in the Final 4.
Transcontinental Quadrant:
No real surprises here from the first round winners but we had some quality match-ups in round 2! Rowan vs Tufts proved to be as real as the hype with the Jumbos surviving a nail biter in NJ. Haverford and UMass-Boston provided fireworks and another host team goes down. Trinity and Kenyon advance to provide a dream Sweet 16 match for us fans. This quadrant is a toss up and whoever survives will be battle tested enough to make a push for a title.
Northeast Quadrant:
One of two surprises has to be Rochester's early and bad exit thanks to Eastern. This helps the point many of us make when questioning the NCAA cmte decision on giving at-large bids to teams that aren't playing their best in the last few weeks of the season. UR finished their last 9 games with a grand record of 2-5-2. Tell us again how they were deserving of a bid? Ohio Wesleyan is another good example of this but at least they put up a fight. Does anyone really believe that Loras or Middlebury would have lost to Eastern?
Moving on, St. Joseph's stuns Babson only to run out of gas vs Brandeis. Amherst and Brandeis cruise to a heavyweight bout that everyone will be watching. Newark advances with ease while Oneonta is skating on thin ice. An Amherst vs Newark Elite 8 game is almost inevitable.
East Quadrant:
As expected in this quadrant too. SLU vs W&L was the blockbuster first round game that provided nothing short of a great game. W&L early season hype slowly faded after getting dismantled by Messiah and they never recovered. Cortland cruises and provides us with a great Sweet 16 match vs F&M. Flip a coin for that one.
Calvin quietly advancing to face their toughest test yet vs a confident but slightly nervous Messiah team. Look for Calvin to make the most of this game.
OWU and ONU with big disappointments, but to be fair both drew very difficult first round games. Newport thrashed Montclair but apparently scored too much as they couldn't find the back of the net vs Messiah. Messiah now has 15 shut outs in 22 games. Who doesn't want to see a Messiah vs Chicago final?!
Will we see a Mid-Atlantic championship game to advance to the Final 4 from this region? One can only hope ;D
Overall Thoughts:
Chicago has to be the overall favorite right now with Messiah close behind. The Midwest is a breeze for them while the Transcontinental is a toss up. Amherst is a slight favorite for the Northeast as is Messiah in the East. Should be a fun weekend of games!!
Chicago vs messiah final will be a repeat of the 2013 National Title game. although i do wish i would've played against this 2016 team and not the 2013 boys.
I missed that 2013 Chicago-Messiah national final. Was it a good one?
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2016, 08:53:12 AM
Northeast Quadrant:
One of two surprises has to be Rochester's early and bad exit thanks to Eastern. This helps the point many of us make when questioning the NCAA cmte decision on giving at-large bids to teams that aren't playing their best in the last few weeks of the season. UR finished their last 9 games with a grand record of 2-5-2. Tell us again how they were deserving of a bid? Ohio Wesleyan is another good example of this but at least they put up a fight. Does anyone really believe that Loras or Middlebury would have lost to Eastern?
I believe FW stated a while back that "recent performance" is not part of the NCAA's selection criteria. Regardless, at the risk of being labeled the Resident Rochester Curmudgeon (if I haven't been already), I have said repeatedly that Rochester's 7-0-1 start to the season was potentially deceptive, as the only real test they had was against RPI - the lone draw in that stretch. UR got found out during the second half of its regular season, going 2-4-2 (2-3-2 in the UAA and a 3-0 drubbing against Vassar). The one thing that UR did have going for it was its RvR (4-3-1) and SoS (.616), both of which are very good, and I can perhaps understand why they were chosen this year, although they have certainly been chosen in dubious circumstances in the past.
I do think that SoS and RvR should be accounted for in terms of teams getting into the tournament: both Brandeis and Tufts had SoS and RvRs that were - comparatively speaking - better than their winning percentages, and are both in the Sweet 16, which I think speaks to both squads' abilities as NCAA teams. That said, we see other teams like Babson and Rochester who were selected for Pool C bids based on those factors this year, yet fell in the 1st Round. Since 2012, Rochester has advanced to the 2nd Round on 3 of 4 occasions, but has only gotten to the Sweet 16 once during that stretch (2013), while Babson has hosted in 3 of the last 5 years (albeit 2014 was supposed to be at SUNY Cortland) yet has fallen in the 1st Round in all 3 home and all 4 total tournament appearances during that stretch. In fact, looking back on it, Babson has not advanced past the 1st Round since 2011, which is surprising to me.
Bottom line: SoS and RvR are and should be factors in tournament selection, but perhaps too many teams are being selected on the basis of those two criteria, as evident by consistent early exits.
On another note - for a conference that gets as many bids as the UAA - it is mind-boggling that, in the last five years, the UAA has only gotten teams to the Sweet 16 on two occasions other than Brandeis' five-year run between 2012 and 2016: 2013 (Rochester) and 2016 (Chicago). Certainly, the geographic diversity of UAA teams has something to do with it, and perhaps partially explains why UAA teams tend to have more early exits than if those teams were concentrated into one or two quadrants of the bracket, but part of it come downs to a sheer lack of execution. This year, Chicago could well be the first UAA school to advance to the Final 4 and possibly even win the national title since NYU in 2006 and Brandeis in 1976, respectively (although it should be noted that Brandeis was not a member of the UAA when it won the 1976 NCAA title). However, even as a UAA supporter, I think the UAA as a whole has to perform more consistently on the biggest stage given its prestige.
After watching the Redlands-Washington game, I'm rolling with the upset pick in Chicago.
I think the argument MAF is hinting at, if I may take a guess, is that end of year performance should be a possible edition to the decision making process. We see it often with soccer and college basketball that a team getting hot at the right time tends to be discussed more for a potential bid rather than a team with a hot start and poor finish.
Now this is where arguments have come up last year...why punish a team for a good start but poor finish? Or why reward a team for a poor start but good finish to a season? Which is why the season is looked at from an entire seasons perspective, as it should be, BUT I can definitely see the point MAF is making. Unfortunately I don't have a solution to offer. Also doesn't help that the East Region was a mess this year and basically guaranteed a spot for Oneonta and UR despite average resumes.
A team like UR is a good example of why the debate even exists though.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 14, 2016, 10:10:00 AM
Now this is where arguments have come up last year...why punish a team for a good start but poor finish? Or why reward a team for a poor start but good finish to a season? Which is why the season is looked at from an entire seasons perspective, as it should be, BUT I can definitely see the point MAF is making. Unfortunately I don't have a solution to offer. Also doesn't help that the East Region was a mess this year and basically guaranteed a spot for Oneonta and UR despite average resumes.
I agree with you, but I think that if Team A and Team B have identical winning %, SoS, RvR, etc., and Team A started hot but faded and Team B the reverse, you'd be hard-pressed to choose Team A over Team B considering the timing of the postseason. Of course, such a situation is merely hypothetical, and it is unlikely that two teams will have exactly identical resumes, but all things equal I think the team peaking at the right time should be rewarded over the team squeaking into the tourney by the skin of its teeth.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on November 14, 2016, 10:10:00 AM
A team like UR is a good example of why the debate even exists though.
Yup. That's why I was glad that they didn't get a bid last year: just to prove to the non-UR folks that the Yellowjackets don't have a divine right despite having gotten into the tournament with questionable resumes on numerous occasions in recent years.
Men's Sectional Hosts:
Midwest - Chicago
Transcontinental - ? ? ?
Northeast - Amherst
East - Messiah
Still haven't heard who's hosting the far-flung Transcontinental Sectional. Anyone hear anything? The Trinity women are hosting their sectional, so that should rule Trinity out. Tufts or Mass-Boston would mean only two teams flying in instead of three. It was mentioned that Kenyon may not have bid to host. Kenyon would mean three teams flying in, so even if they bid, you'd think this is going to Tufts or Mass-Boston.
Women's Sectionl Hosts:
Atlantic - Williams
West - UW-Whitewater
Central - Trinity (Texas)
Northeast - Brandeis
I'm very curious as to why William Smith is not hosting the women's Northeast Sectional. Perfect 18-0-0 record. All team within 500 miles of each other, so no flights either way. Did the powerhouse program not bid to host?
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 09:47:27 AM
I missed that 2013 Chicago-Messiah national final. Was it a good one?
I missed that one, too. ;D
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2016, 10:55:15 AM
Men's Sectional Hosts:
Midwest - Chicago
Transcontinental - ? ? ?
Northeast - Amherst
East - Messiah
Still haven't heard who's hosting the far-flung Transcontinental Sectional. Anyone hear anything? The Trinity women are hosting their sectional, so that should rule Trinity out. Tufts or Mass-Boston would mean only two teams flying in instead of three. It was mentioned that Kenyon may not have bid to host. Kenyon would mean three teams flying in, so even if they bid, you'd think this is going to Tufts or Mass-Boston.
Women's Sectionl Hosts:
Atlantic - Williams
West - UW-Whitewater
Central - Trinity (Texas)
Northeast - Brandeis
I'm very curious as to why William Smith is not hosting the women's Northeast Sectional. Perfect 18-0-0 record. All team within 500 miles of each other, so no flights either way. Did the powerhouse program not bid to host?
Gonna guess Tufts. Hard to imagine UMass-Boston after serious consideration of a forfeit and fact that I think they borrow a local high school field with football lines. If so, NCAA magic continues to find the Jumbos. I had thought Trinity might have a chance since once you're flying 2 teams how much difference does 3 make, but seeing that Trinity is out because of the women settles that (unless another San Antonio venue is available). Also would see fair given all the years Trinity is forced to travel.
None of the four teams have a location given on their schedules. Kenyon shows their match with Trinity as if it's at a neutral site (in italics). The other three still listing "@ TBA". Is it possible it hasn't been decided yet?
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 14, 2016, 11:13:35 AM
None of the four teams have a location given on their schedules. Kenyon shows their match with Trinity as if it's at a neutral site (in italics). The other three still listing "@ TBA". Is it possible it hasn't been decided yet?
Obviously a difficult decision. Kenyon doesn't make sense even if applied because of 3 flights which would make Trinity no different as a choice. Presumably Trinity and Kenyon are the top remaining seeds. All signs point to Tufts, but how many times can the cmte make high seed Trinity come to Massachusetts? Could Trinity play where they played Final Four???
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 14, 2016, 08:53:12 AM
Some take aways from the weekend...
Moving on, St. Joseph's stuns Babson only to run out of gas vs Brandeis. Amherst and Brandeis cruise to a heavyweight bout that everyone will be watching. Newark advances with ease while Oneonta is skating on thin ice. An Amherst vs Newark Elite 8 game is almost inevitable.
I was at both St. Joseph's games this weekend and in my opinion Brandeis was just a better and more dangerous offensive team than Babson. I think you're right that St. Joseph's ran out of gas a little bit, but I think more of it was due to the quality of play from Brandeis. I'm really looking forward to seeing Amherst vs. Brandeis.
UMASS Boston played their 4 Home games in their conference at Boston College turf field I believe. Maybe they are waiting to see if BC is hosting in the D1 tourney? Doubtful but who knows...
FYI----1pm NCAA D1 Selection show that relies heavily on a system D3 should use. The RPI system
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
UMASS Boston played their 4 Home games in their conference at Boston College turf field I believe. Maybe they are waiting to see if BC is hosting in the D1 tourney? Doubtful but who knows...
FYI----1pm NCAA D1 Selection show that relies heavily on a system D3 should use. The RPI system
Boston College High School in Dorchester....not Boston College in Chestnut Hill.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 12:00:16 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
UMASS Boston played their 4 Home games in their conference at Boston College turf field I believe. Maybe they are waiting to see if BC is hosting in the D1 tourney? Doubtful but who knows...
FYI----1pm NCAA D1 Selection show that relies heavily on a system D3 should use. The RPI system
Boston College High School in Dorchester....not Boston College in Chestnut Hill.
Oh is that where they wee playing......Damn BC High has some nice facilities...Then it HAS to be Tufts but why the wait???
Quote from: OldNed on November 14, 2016, 11:44:32 AM
I was at both St. Joseph's games this weekend and in my opinion Brandeis was just a better and more dangerous offensive team than Babson. I think you're right that St. Joseph's ran out of gas a little bit, but I think more of it was due to the quality of play from Brandeis. I'm really looking forward to seeing Amherst vs. Brandeis.
Was only at the second game myself, but agree on all fronts. St. Joe's was resolute and had a game plan and stuck to it. The difference between Babson and Brandeis at this stage of the season, in my opinion, is that Brandeis has been a bit more dynamic and opportunistic in its finishing.
Earlier this year, Brandeis had some problems defensively, and I personally didn't see how in the world they would beat teams like Emory and Rochester if they couldn't close a game out against Wheaton (a 5-4 loss in OT). At 3-3-2 in September I figured they were certainly out of the NCAAs Pool C question. That said, the Judges really pulled things together starting in mid-October, and Sam Vinson - a D-I transfer from Loyola Chicago - has been impressive at left-back during that stretch, as has Thales Brito at CB. Offensively, Brandeis struggled for goals for a while, but seems to have become more reliable with finishing during the latter part of the year. And with Vieira and Jastremski firing on all cylinders at the crucial part of the season, it seems like Brandeis is getting its mojo back at the right time.
As for Babson, they're a very functional side and resolute defensively, but they can be anemic offensively at times. They moved Adam Villari from outside back to striker and he did well enough after a slow start, scoring 7 goals and 4 assists, which was good enough for All-NEWMAC 1st Team honors. Yet while it is admirable that he was able to adjust to being a striker, he wasn't by any means an All-American candidate or anything like that IMHO. And that's not to slight Villari, but rather highlighting the fact that Babson's reliance on an outside-back-turned-forward to score their goals was always going to be a problem, and so it proved.
For New England fans / Nescac fans we have a great opportunity to catch a pod as 2 of the 4 pods will be hosted by Nescac teams and both in Massachusetts. One interesting side note is that NCAA.COM has posted that Amherst will play the 11am game v Brandeis. Usually they choose to play the later game so that is interesting. I think i would like to catch both games so I will be relying on 2 good streams at Amherst and at Tufts. Messiah's stream is obviously very good but I cannot remember Chicago's stream quality. Looks like for us neutrals all the streams will be top quality and the weather looks to be very good this week-end in New England. Sometimes wind and rain and snow can really affect the stream and announcers.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 14, 2016, 12:49:52 PM
For New England fans / Nescac fans we have a great opportunity to catch a pod as 2 of the 4 pods will be hosted by Nescac teams and both in Massachusetts. One interesting side note is that NCAA.COM has posted that Amherst will play the 11am game v Brandeis. Usually they choose to play the later game so that is interesting. I think i would like to catch both games so I will be relying on 2 good streams at Amherst and at Tufts. Messiah's stream is obviously very good but I cannot remember Chicago's stream quality. Looks like for us neutrals all the streams will be top quality and the weather looks to be very good this week-end in New England. Sometimes wind and rain and snow can really affect the stream and announcers.
Chicago's stream is very good. I think you have to sign up once but it is free and after that you can just log in. Chicago announcers are very good from what I can recall. I like the Amherst announcer, too, he is pretty neutral and certainly very entertaining. Some of his metaphors are an absolute riot: he commented last year that Trinity's bench "was sitting like they're waiting for a bus." Only thing about the Tufts stream, which has been good in my experience, is that the color guy is incredibly drab and boring in my opinion - I think he was the color guy at MIT last year and was equally bad - so I will either go in person or watch on mute.
Tufts will host the next round, confirmed:
http://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20161114jmrw2z
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 14, 2016, 01:07:12 PM
Tufts will host the next round, confirmed:
http://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20161114jmrw2z
Great for us NE and MA folks and obviously a big boost for Tufts in addition to getting a depleted opponent. Not saying UMass doesn't have a chance but would have been more exciting/entertaining if UMass had their go-to stud available. Seems a little unfair to Trinity to always have to travel so far even when highly seeded. Second time in two years Trinity is sent to NESCAC-land for Sectionals.
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
First thought on Messiah-Calvin. Calvin will not beat themselves nor lose control. Should be a good game. However, Messiah home field obviously a big advantage and I think the large size of the field helps Messiah as well. Calvin will not be able to swarm the middle of the field and close down as effectively as they did against ONU and CMU. That will be key to game IMO with Messiah also having more dangerous offensive threats coming from all directions and positions than Calvin can produce.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
First thought on Messiah-Calvin. Calvin will not beat themselves nor lose control. Should be a good game. However, Messiah home field obviously a big advantage and I think the large size of the field helps Messiah as well. Calvin will not be able to swarm the middle of the field and close down as effectively as they did against ONU and CMU. That will be key to game IMO with Messiah also having more dangerous offensive threats coming from all directions and positions than Calvin can produce.
Probably because Tuft's men play all their home games on Bello so they are used to it. Tufts women play on the grass so I assume the coach prefers the turf for his team.
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2016, 03:06:03 PM
Probably because Tuft's men play all their home games on Bello so they are used to it. Tufts women play on the grass so I assume the coach prefers the turf for his team.
Up until this year, Tufts actually played all of its games on grass, at Kraft, so I think NCAC was speaking to the switch in general rather than to the location of the tourney. Not sure what prompted the switch, but I do think it perhaps makes sense given Tufts' propensity to play possession-based futbol on the ground where turf can provide a quicker surface.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 14, 2016, 03:29:57 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 14, 2016, 03:06:03 PM
Probably because Tuft's men play all their home games on Bello so they are used to it. Tufts women play on the grass so I assume the coach prefers the turf for his team.
Up until this year, Tufts actually played all of its games on grass, at Kraft, so I think NCAC was speaking to the switch in general rather than to the location of the tourney. Not sure what prompted the switch, but I do think it perhaps makes sense given Tufts' propensity to play possession-based futbol on the ground where turf can provide a quicker surface.
Exactly. Thanks. I saw them play on Kraft last year. And I think most possession teams would prefer grass actually, if it's a good grass field (Messiah, OWU, etc). Obvioulsy they would prefer turf now if they've playing on it but I'm curious about the original switch.
Since the final four will be played on turf in Salem, does that make Tufts a favorite going forward?
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 14, 2016, 04:20:49 PM
Since the final four will be played on turf in Salem, does that make Tufts a favorite going forward?
The Jumbos' NCAA experience might make them a potential favorite, but Chicago also plays on turf.
It's interesting because Chicago played most of its early season home games on the grass pitch and went to the turf pitch from the Brandeis game forward. Maybe it was forward thinking that the remainder of their road games would be on turf and they wanted get comfortable and I'm sure some it had to do lights on turf pitch and lights on grass. IMHO They were thinking ahead.
Tufts also won the National Championship two years ago playing their home games (and both final four games) on grass. Just a little tidbit to note. Kraft field is generally pretty decent (Roma trained there a couple years ago) but is known to be very soft and easy to tear up. I think the womens team practices and plays on it during the season, which would mean the field is only unused for one day each week.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2016, 09:07:21 AM
Chicago vs messiah final will be a repeat of the 2013 National Title game. although i do wish i would've played against this 2016 team and not the 2013 boys.
I see a couple of posts have responded to this (sarcastically?), but just confirming: Chicago was not in the 2013 national title game.
Have they been there some other time?
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 14, 2016, 05:52:03 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2016, 09:07:21 AM
Chicago vs messiah final will be a repeat of the 2013 National Title game. although i do wish i would've played against this 2016 team and not the 2013 boys.
I see a couple of posts have responded to this (sarcastically?), but just confirming: Chicago was not in the 2013 national title game.
Have they been there some other time?
They have not. Closest they got was a Final Four appearance in 1996.
Does anyone see any sleeper teams getting out of the sectional and into the final four?
Just some context around the Jumbo's move to Bello this year. Up until the 2016 season, both mens and womens sides played on Kraft field. The opportunity for the men to move to Bello was created by the women's field hockey team (fall sport) moving to a brand new field right next door called Ounjian Field. Bello has always been the turf home to the perennial powerhouse Jumbos men's Lacrosse team and now shares with the Jumbos mens soccer team. The women still play at Kraft on the grass.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 09:47:27 AM
I missed that 2013 Chicago-Messiah national final. Was it a good one?
i guess you took that the wrong way or i worded it poorly. i meant if Chicago and Messiah make it to the final it will be a final just like when camden played messiah. which would be an amazing match up imo
Quote from: d3soccerscout on November 14, 2016, 07:26:48 PM
Does anyone see any sleeper teams getting out of the sectional and into the final four?
Everyone seems to be counting Chicago as a lock for the final 4 and even the Championship match but....St Thomas could be a sleeper. Extremely tight defensively and opportunistic in the counter. They won't wow you with style, but they will be incredibly tough to break down and are the type of team that can hang around all game and sneak a late goal.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
First thought on Messiah-Calvin. Calvin will not beat themselves nor lose control. Should be a good game. However, Messiah home field obviously a big advantage and I think the large size of the field helps Messiah as well. Calvin will not be able to swarm the middle of the field and close down as effectively as they did against ONU and CMU. That will be key to game IMO with Messiah also having more dangerous offensive threats coming from all directions and positions than Calvin can produce.
How much bigger is their field than "normal"?
Quote from: wingtips2 on November 13, 2016, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: phillyfan12 on November 13, 2016, 06:20:43 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 13, 2016, 06:06:14 PM
LOL was he arrested...Jesus? I was comparing Amherst bench antics to Umass Boston bench antics which luckylefty mentioned they should not have advanced...Take ur purple and white blinders off...Amherst has not head butted a ref but they are not choirboys over there...
As I was leaving the game I saw their #77 getting driven away in a Cop car. Rumor was it was because he headbutted the ref and thus assaulted the referree. The stoppage of play was because the NCAA was trying to figure out whether or not to end the game with UMB forfeiting for their conduct. I suppose the ref decided to let it continue but truly the most classless performance from a team I've ever seen in my entire life
If somebody assaulted a referee in that manner the match should have been immediately called.
I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here or bring the conversation back to a rather unpleasant topic but is there any precedent for games being called for a teams poor conduct?
From what everyone has said about the game, and from what I saw at the game the UMB team was not just chippy (which is obviously part of NCAA tournament games) but dirty and violent. When a player gets taken away in a Cop car that definitely could be grounds for removing the team for the tournament. I'm not sure if any of the long time D3 soccer fans have any knowledge of a team advancing and then later being disqualified but I can't think of any instance. Anyone think there is a chance that UMB is disqualified? After all they did have a player arrested which seems a little more serious than a heated NCAA tournament game.
Quote from: calvin_grad on November 14, 2016, 08:33:05 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
First thought on Messiah-Calvin. Calvin will not beat themselves nor lose control. Should be a good game. However, Messiah home field obviously a big advantage and I think the large size of the field helps Messiah as well. Calvin will not be able to swarm the middle of the field and close down as effectively as they did against ONU and CMU. That will be key to game IMO with Messiah also having more dangerous offensive threats coming from all directions and positions than Calvin can produce.
How much bigger is their field than "normal"?
I thought I remembered comments in the past about Calvin having a grass field on the the smaller side with perhaps less width. Could be wrong. Also seems like turf fields, like at CMU and many other places, tend to have tighter dimensions. I would assume Messiah is the maximum possible at 120x80. It's a very big field so keeping up with a very skilled team that also has a ton of pace is difficult.
Sweet 16 Participation By Region
New England -- 4
Central -- 3 (sort of surprising and Wheaton isn't even one of them)
East -- 2
Mid-Atlantic -- 2
West -- 2
South Atlantic -- 1
Great Lakes -- 1
North -- 1
Messiah's field is inside a track, so it can't be the maximum size. I think the largest field that fits inside a track is around 74 x 115, or something like that. OK, you could go longer if you sacrifice width, or wider if you sacrifice length.
Calvin's field is also inside a track, but their grass field may be a little narrower than the typical turf field. There's not a lot of room between the sideline and the edge of the track. I've been to a number of games there, but don't have a great feel for how it compares to other fields width-wise.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 08:58:56 PM
Quote from: calvin_grad on November 14, 2016, 08:33:05 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
First thought on Messiah-Calvin. Calvin will not beat themselves nor lose control. Should be a good game. However, Messiah home field obviously a big advantage and I think the large size of the field helps Messiah as well. Calvin will not be able to swarm the middle of the field and close down as effectively as they did against ONU and CMU. That will be key to game IMO with Messiah also having more dangerous offensive threats coming from all directions and positions than Calvin can produce.
How much bigger is their field than "normal"?
I thought I remembered comments in the past about Calvin having a grass field on the the smaller side with perhaps less width. Could be wrong. Also seems like turf fields, like at CMU and many other places, tend to have tighter dimensions. I would assume Messiah is the maximum possible at 120x80. It's a very big field so keeping up with a very skilled team that also has a ton of pace is difficult.
I believe Messiah is somewhere around 74/76 by 115 ish. It plays great for the style they use.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 09:09:29 PM
Sweet 16 Participation By Region
New England -- 4
Central -- 3 (sort of surprising and Wheaton isn't even one of them)
East -- 2
Mid-Atlantic -- 2
West -- 2
South Atlantic -- 1
Great Lakes -- 1
North -- 1
Didn't the South Atlantic and Great Lakes have the most bids....??? Under performing much?
I know I'm biased and beating a dead horse, but I would wager Bowdoin and/or Middlebury would still be in the tournament...
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 15, 2016, 09:16:00 AM
I know I'm biased and beating a dead horse, but I would wager Bowdoin and/or Middlebury would still be in the tournament...
Perhaps, but that's easy to think in a vacuum. You have to place them in one of the brackets where they were likely to go and tell us who would be displaced or account for NESCAC teams having to play each other in the second round.
There's no question that NESCAC deserves more than one Pool C as a general rule. The problem this year is that none of the other NESCACs made a clear claim via their results. Midd had full control of getting a bid and just suffered too many disappointing setbacks, especially given how good (like top 5 in the country good) many projected them to be. IMO last year Midd got screwed. This year, especially after knowing what happened last year, they really have no one but themselves to blame. Bowdoin had the two wins over Tufts but not a lot else with a relatively mediocre overall season. Williams got stuck in kind of a no man's land spot and almost certainly would have gotten a bid if they could have pulled out the last game at home with Midd (or even secured a draw which was very unlucky as Midd literally scored with a second left in double OT). It's true that those three had resumes very similar to teams like Rochester, Wash U and OWU that got in, but no one has gone to the mat arguing that those teams should have made it either. What they did have, except for Wash U which has two wins in seven overall ranked games, is three and four ranked wins. And then there was the Wheaton (MA) wrinkle, and in hindsight one could make a strong case that Wheaton was perhaps more deserving than Babson or some other Pool Cs.
All that said, NESCAC has a better than fair chance to get two teams into the Final Four. Amherst is favored to get there. And Tufts now has home field and a wounded Sweet 16 opponent. UMass-Boston still has a lot of very good players, but they are not close to full strength with their stud striker/leading scorer out and when "the other guy" disqualified started 22 of 22 games, is the team's maybe 5th leading scorer, and described on their website as "perhaps the most effective and skilled midfielder in the Little East Conference." UMass also may be a little hesitant about how they are going to play/behave after this past weekend, and they can't afford to be hesitant. They must play on an edge to have a chance but without boiling over. Tufts is very strong-minded and together, and have a good number of big, physical players. We always talk about Tufts' skill and possession game, but they are also very capable of being physical themselves and won't be intimidated for a second. Bottom line....Tufts has to be heavily favored in that game and I'll be shocked if UMass wins. And then Tufts would have at least a fair chance against the survivor of the other game on its home field. Tufts already has beaten Amherst and Rowan, considered two of the top 5 teams in the country all season, so beating Trinity or Kenyon is very doable.
Quote from: Mid-Atlantic Fan on November 15, 2016, 08:22:32 AM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 09:09:29 PM
Sweet 16 Participation By Region
New England -- 4
Central -- 3 (sort of surprising and Wheaton isn't even one of them)
East -- 2
Mid-Atlantic -- 2
West -- 2
South Atlantic -- 1
Great Lakes -- 1
North -- 1
Didn't the South Atlantic and Great Lakes have the most bids....??? Under performing much?
LOL. That's part of why I posted the info but you certainly put a stamp on it! I'll speak mostly for Great Lakes. Oberlin was one of the hotter teams in GL and did not get in. Ohio Northern (because of SoS) got a bad draw, in part because Calvin (low SoS) also got a bad draw. OWU got a tough draw playing CMU at CMU and that game could have gone either way. CMU then had to play Calvin and CMU showed very well. I can't speak for Hanover, as I couldn't understand how high they got regionally ranked but had an AQ anyway. I didn't expect Hanover to last long. DePauw won a game and was very competitive losing a toss-up game to Redlands. As for the South Atlantic, I did not see Kean deserving a bid over several other teams. Montclair was a volatile mess, and Rowan really faded and got a bit unlucky drawing a Tufts team that I'm sure was very confident they would go down to Jersey and get a win. W&L got a tough draw and was never going to be favored to get past F&M on F&M's home field. And Lynchburg very easily could have advanced, losing a heartbreaker in OT.
Calvin is the textbook case for the flaws of SoS. Certainly in many cases a weak SoS does reflect teams with great records who aren't very competitive against top competition, but Calvin is a clear exception. ONU is another. And Kenyon might not have made the tournament either of the last two years (because of SoS) if they hadn't won every critical game down the stretch, as they were regionally ranked towards the bottom until the last ranking when they vaulted to #1.
Tournament Bracket Extravaganza Standings
MAF: Rd1= 44 points Rd2= 44 points Total 88 points
5/8 Elite 8 teams left and 4/4 Final 4 teams left
Shooter: Rd1= 44 points Rd2= 40 points Total 84 points
5/8 Elite 8 teams left and 3/4 Final 4 teams left
LastGuy: Rd1=42 points Rd2= 52 points Total 94 points
8/8 Elite 8 teams left and 4/4 Final 4 teams left
Swibbles: Rd1= 54 points Rd2= 28 points Total 82 points
6/8 Elite 8 teams left and 4/4 Final 4 teams left
NJrexSoccer03: Rd1= 44 points Rd2= 36 points Total 80 points
6/8 Elite 8 teams left and 3/4 Final 4 teams left
D3 Scout: Rd1= 42 points Rd2= 32 points Total 74 points
5/8 Elite 8 teams left and 4/4 Final 4 teams left
Pelinho: Rd1= 48 points Rd2 40 points Total 88 points
6/8 Elite 8 teams left and 3/4 Final 4 teams left
Just4Kix: 5/8 Elite 8 teams left and 3/4 Final 4 teams left
***Please double and triple check your score. I apologize in advance for any errors or miscalculations!!***
Round 1 is worth 2 points
Round 2 is worth 4 points
Round 3 is worth 8 points
Round 4 is worth 16 points
Round 5 is worth 32 points
Champion is worth 64 points
Just found the video of the second goal in Rutgers-Newark's 2nd goal against ETown - what a hit. They have a camera at the back corner of the goal and usually when you see those videos it just shakes and bounces up but this one you can hear the shot hit the back metal part of the goal. Pretty cool.
https://youtu.be/RLzybL5nArY?t=44s
Kids also got some HOPS!
Yes...RUN might have the best camera angle I have ever seen. Not to far from the field but just high enough to not just watch the action and the ball BUT player spacing and movement off the ball. I have enjoyed watching them all season as I caught maybe 4-5 of their games. Also, love just the crowd noise and no announcers...Gives you a good feel of the atmosphere without nitwits talking over each other
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 15, 2016, 09:16:00 AM
I know I'm biased and beating a dead horse, but I would wager Bowdoin and/or Middlebury would still be in the tournament...
They might or they might not be as that is not the point. Point is they should have been in the tournament.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
Tufts Men had played on Kraft field since the 1980's. They used to play on a grass field down near the turf field which is now a parking lot I believe. It is amazing to watch all these facility upgrades and construction by many Nescac schools as in the 1980's they had not changed much from the 1950's I would guess. Now to get the "best" kids they have to be "wowed" by facilities.
I will say that besides Wesleyan(CT), Tufts had the worst field in Nescac. Wesleyan has been using the same field since the 1930's and it just SO BAD. If any team needs to go to turf it would be Wesleyan. Like Wesleyan, Tufts grass field was a bit narrow and VERY CHOPPY. It was Hard to get anything going on the floor on that field. The bonus of the field was the location as Tufts used to draw a HUGE ROWDY CROWD and it was a definite advantage being right on campus. Kind of like Conn College.
Shapiro once again made a wise move to go to the turf. I am old school in the fact that I like grass fields but I understand fully why teams are going to turf more and more and I myself am not afraid of change so I do not mind. The ONE THING THAT DRIVES ME NUTS is turf fields like Tufts with Lacrosse and Field Hockey lines. Midd's turf field is nice because it is just for futbol. I do not mind football lines because I can get a good read of where players are taking shots from and get a good read in distance control from everything from GK Punts to long balls switching the field. IDK
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2016, 02:33:51 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 14, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
Any Tufts folks or NE fans know why Tufts is playing at Bello (turf) instead of Kraft (grass)?
Tufts had on Kraft field since the 1980's. They used to play on a grass field down near the turf field which is now a parking lot I believe. It is amazing to watch all these facility upgrades and construction by many Nescac schools as in the 1980's they had not changed much from the 1950's I would guess. Now to get the "best" kids they have to be "wowed" by facilities.
I will say that besides Wesleyan(CT), Tufts had the worst field in Nescac. Wesleyan has been using the same field since the 1930's and it just SO BAD. If any team needs to go to turf it would be Wesleyan. Like Wesleyan, Tufts grass field was a bit barrow and VERY CHOPPY. Hard to get anything going on the floor on that field. The bonus of the field was the location as Tufts used to draw a HUGE ROWDY CROWD and it was a definite advantage being right on campus. Kind of like Conn College.
Shapiro once again made a wise move to go to the turf. I am old school in the fact that I like grass fields but I understand fully why teams are going to turf more and more and I myself am not afraid of change so I do not mind. The ONE THING THAT DRIVES ME NUTS is turf fields like Tufts with Lacrosse and Field Hockey lines. Midd's turf field is nice because it is just for futbol. I do not mind football lines because I can get a good read of where players are taking shots from and get a good read in distance control from everything from GK Punts to long balls switching the field. IDK
Middlebury's lines are good but the turf, itself, sucks.....
the Turf is from 2007 and needs a big time upgrade
Quote from: blooter442 on November 15, 2016, 12:45:43 PM
Just found the video of the second goal in Rutgers-Newark's 2nd goal against ETown - what a hit. They have a camera at the back corner of the goal and usually when you see those videos it just shakes and bounces up but this one you can hear the shot hit the back metal part of the goal. Pretty cool.
https://youtu.be/RLzybL5nArY?t=44s
I was interested to see that both goals were scored with Rutgers-Newark going in the "uphill" direction of the field (there is a distinct slant to the field that, over the course of a game, likely confers a slight advantage to the "downhill" team).
Quote from: blooter442 on November 15, 2016, 12:45:43 PM
Just found the video of the second goal in Rutgers-Newark's 2nd goal against ETown - what a hit. They have a camera at the back corner of the goal and usually when you see those videos it just shakes and bounces up but this one you can hear the shot hit the back metal part of the goal. Pretty cool.
https://youtu.be/RLzybL5nArY?t=44s
RUN is the REAL DEAL...That might be the goal of the year.....If they can tighten up defensively they have a chance to win it all.
This is footage of the 2 red cards and the headbutt that should have resulted in a 3rd red from the Umass Boston - Haverford game. As a former player it's sad to think that the careers of the Haverford seniors were ended in PKs by a team that exhibits this kind of behavior.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZO-ULHFxA&feature=youtu.be
Wow! I can hardly believe my eyes! Those aren't mere red cards offenses, those are over-the-top red card offenses. I'd be perfectly content with the team being expelled from the tournament/forfeiting that game. Somehow their coach needs to be held accountable. To reach this point of the season and have three different players that undisciplined and out of control is inexcusable. If you can't rein in your players, you shouldn't keep starting them and giving them playing time. Deplorable and disgusting and completely disrespectful to the game, their opponents, the referee, tournament, etc.
I've been looking for this just out of my own curiosity, so I'm glad there is video of it. Completely unacceptable. Of course there will always be a certain extent of "afters" in highly contentious situations but this goes far beyond that. Just to get a sense of who the head coach was, I watched a couple of post game interviews, and I personally did not get the sense that he runs a tight ship as far as keeping guys in line. Maybe I'm drawing conclusions too easily but any coach with any sense of dignity would not tolerate that kind of behavior for a second.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 15, 2016, 11:41:03 PM
Wow! I can hardly believe my eyes! Those aren't mere red cards offenses, those are over-the-top red card offenses. I'd be perfectly content with the team being expelled from the tournament/forfeiting that game. Somehow their coach needs to be held accountable. To reach this point of the season and have three different players that undisciplined and out of control is inexcusable. If you can't rein in your players, you shouldn't keep starting them and giving them playing time. Deplorable and disgusting and completely disrespectful to the game, their opponents, the referee, tournament, etc.
I completely agree with your assessment of the situation. Seems actually ridiculous the game was allowed to continue to be entirely honest. I was there for most of the game and thought it should have been forfeited at the time but I didn't even see the headbutt that goes completely unpenalized. That is a surefire red card offense in itself so they should have been down to 8! Maybe this is just me but I feel like its a pretty bad look for the NCAA to let this team continue to play in the tournament after their deplorable conduct. I'm not sure whether they would just forfeit and Tufts would move on (seems unfair to Trinty/Kenyon who would have to play a rested Tufts team) or if they would somehow let the Fords back into the tournament but Umass Boston should be punished for their conduct, starting with their coach.
Wow. That is not a good look for UMB at all.
Still not sure how Williamson is eligible to play college soccer, given his past playing experience. Of course, his future college career is over. Not sure how USSF will view this incident but aggression towards officials in USSF sanctioned matches results in a lifetime ban.
They are not going to forfeit the game or allow Haverford to continue to play. Haverford should have won the game and BLEW IT themselves.
I think UMB might have to suspend or fire their Head Coach Beverlin..He is responsible for the players that he brings in and their actions..Honestly, Everything would have been fine had Williamson not headbutted the ref.. I have no idea what the hell that was for...The Haverford player was jumping on his back so he got frustrated and threw him which is a Straight Red and be done with it. Once he went after the ref he cost himself his own career and quite possibly his coaches.
Im sorry but is it not ironic that we have a former Amherst player being the prime cheerleader of this whole cause and continuing to bring this up. The same Amherst player whose teammate #15 Max Fikke THREW A BALL at full speed into a Williams players sternum because he was upset that he was standing in the way of his long throw. There have been plenty of poor/ bad sportsmanship instances from Amherst and Serpone that I think it is not really the best look that we have Amherst alums taking this stance. My advice is to look at your own house first
I do have a question though, is Williamson suspended for life for something like that? How does that work? I've never seen a game in which there's been a physical attack on a ref. What happens next - I'm genuinely curious.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 11:48:14 AM
They are not going to forfeit the game or allow Haverford to continue to play. Haverford should have won the game and BLEW IT themselves.
I think UMB might have to suspend or fire their Head Coach Beverlin..He is responsible for the players that he brings in and their actions..Honestly, Everything would have been fine had Williamson not headbutted the ref.. I have no idea what the hell that was for...The Haverford player was jumping on his back so he got frustrated and threw him which is a Straight Red and be done with it. Once he went after the ref he cost himself his own career and quite possibly his coaches.
Im sorry but it is not ironic that we have a former Amherst player being the prime cheerleader of this whole cause and continuing to bring this up. The same Amherst player whose teammate #15 Max Fikke THREW A BALL at full speed into a Williams players sternum because he was upset that he was standing in the way of his long throw. There have been plenty of poor/ bad sportsmanship instances from Amherst and Serpone that I think it is not really the best look that we have Amherst alums taking this stance. My advice is to look at your own house first
I believe I was one of the first to post about UMB's behavior, and I have never set foot on the Amherst campus. The UMB coach should MINIMALLY be sanctioned by the NCAA, and the team should not be permitted to advance in the tournament. I agree also that Haverford had a chance to win with UMB down 2 players in the last twenty minutes, and did not take advantage. But take a look at the user comments in the YouTube video. The UMB players are boasting that they are advancing, not Haverford. As far as UMB is concerned, their egregious behavior worked perfectly. This is a game tactic encouraged by the coach, pure and simple - and it worked.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 11:48:14 AM
They are not going to forfeit the game or allow Haverford to continue to play. Haverford should have won the game and BLEW IT themselves.
I think UMB might have to suspend or fire their Head Coach Beverlin..He is responsible for the players that he brings in and their actions..Honestly, Everything would have been fine had Williamson not headbutted the ref.. I have no idea what the hell that was for...The Haverford player was jumping on his back so he got frustrated and threw him which is a Straight Red and be done with it. Once he went after the ref he cost himself his own career and quite possibly his coaches.
Im sorry but it is not ironic that we have a former Amherst player being the prime cheerleader of this whole cause and continuing to bring this up. The same Amherst player whose teammate #15 Max Fikke THREW A BALL at full speed into a Williams players sternum because he was upset that he was standing in the way of his long throw. There have been plenty of poor/ bad sportsmanship instances from Amherst and Serpone that I think it is not really the best look that we have Amherst alums taking this stance. My advice is to look at your own house first
Game should have been forfeited as soon as headbutt incident occurred and game given to haverford. I would not be surprised if NCAA mafe this decision after the fact.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 11:48:14 AM
They are not going to forfeit the game or allow Haverford to continue to play. Haverford should have won the game and BLEW IT themselves.
I think UMB might have to suspend or fire their Head Coach Beverlin..He is responsible for the players that he brings in and their actions..Honestly, Everything would have been fine had Williamson not headbutted the ref.. I have no idea what the hell that was for...The Haverford player was jumping on his back so he got frustrated and threw him which is a Straight Red and be done with it. Once he went after the ref he cost himself his own career and quite possibly his coaches.
Im sorry but it is not ironic that we have a former Amherst player being the prime cheerleader of this whole cause and continuing to bring this up. The same Amherst player whose teammate #15 Max Fikke THREW A BALL at full speed into a Williams players sternum because he was upset that he was standing in the way of his long throw. There have been plenty of poor/ bad sportsmanship instances from Amherst and Serpone that I think it is not really the best look that we have Amherst alums taking this stance. My advice is to look at your own house first
Mr. Right, I'm not sure what video you watched but I see no Haverford player jump on anyones back...
Also, I just looked up the video again to look at the comments and am disgusted by whomever is commenting on behalf of the UMB team. Calling the Fords a homophobic slur is down right deplorable and you can't bring up the topic of race and say they were racists when they themselves are using egregious homophobic slurs. Moreover, I was at the game for most of it (as I've mentioned before so sorry for those who are tired of hearing it) and never once did I hear anything at all negative from the Haverford fans. I heard one bit of anger that #25 got away with a cheapshot headbutt but it was not racially charged nor directed at any UMB fan in the stands. It is simply natural for a fan to be upset that their friend got headed in the temple.
To comment and claim they were chanting something along the lines of "build that wall" is deplorable and completely fabricated. Also, from what I gather Haverford is one of the most liberal places in the entire country so to think that they would be chanting for something that Trump campaigned upon seems unlikely because, not to make this too political, but it would seem that more of Haverford would have been behind Hillary Clinton as opposed to Donald Trump.
Too many different things flying around at one time on something that has multiple layers.
Mr.Right was RIGHT that there is a culture clash and that we're talking about kids (and men) from very different backgrounds than fill the rosters of many of the elite (and mostly white) colleges. I know a kid from the Cape who was one of best players in Cape summer league year in and year out who played for UMB a couple of years ago and often had to miss games because of work. That said, UMass has given them a chance to go to college and play soccer and quite remarkably UMB, a state school, paid for them to go out to Washington state last year. And Haverford also is one of the more liberal schools in the country. It's also a very privileged school right up there with Williams, Amherst, Midd, Bowdoin, etc.
Mr.Right was WRONG trying to be contrarion by first minimizing very bad conduct in the NJAC games and with Montclair in particular as just good, regular Jersey entertainment, and then again in his initial defense of the UMB behavior as just good entertainment that the rest of us bourgeois folks aren't clued in or street smart enough to understand. The Montclair kid ruined his own season and that of us his team. It was a big deal and completely inexcusable for a sixth year player especially in the 90th minute when your team already has the game in the bag. Shouldn't have been shrugged off as typical Jersey behavior that fans should jut sit back and enjoy. You can't act like everyone deserves a pass or somehow compare these incidents to Amherst. (BTW, throwing a ball at someone is a far cry from kicking a ball with full force at someone's face at close range and really a far cry from very intentional head-butting.) The UMB kids disgraced their team and school and the coach must be held accountable. Violent conduct isn't just chippiness or grittiness from kids we allegedly don't understand. There are standards about behavior for soccer across the globe regardless of economic status. I am about as far left on the political spectrum as they come but no one does these kids any favors by explaining away behavior that should not be tolerated. Doing so only serves to feed the voracious appetites and arguments on the far right against multi-multiculturalism and increased opportunities for the disadvantaged.
The UMB coach is the same age or even younger than Williamson, unless he had some gaps in his education. He played at a community college before he moved on, and he has coached community college teams. His ability to relate to, recruit, and want to coach his UMB kids is laudable. But there is a responsibility. If you read the UMB write-up of the Haverford game you can see hints at excusing what happened based on how much Haverford was fouling. Surely Williamson has been dealing all years with teams trying to slow him down. At any rate, if for some reason the NCAA doesn't take action then UMB certainly should. Williamson certainly should not play again this season and probably should never play again at UMB. The videos of the coach that bloots referenced suggest he is pretty immature, basically goofing his way through every interview.
My understanding -- I think based on posts here -- is that a forfeit was contemplated at the time the ref was head-butted during the game. Once the game was allowed to continue after consultation with the NCAA I don't see how Haverford could be let back in. And Mr.Right is RIGHT that Haverford should have closed out the game even if most of us agree the game should have been terminated with Haverford given the win. Once that didn't happen Haverford had more than 20 minutes to get a goal 11 versus 9. Once the minutes ticked down and they got to PKs the dynamics obviously then strongly favored UMB. The beneficiary is Tufts. Can't blame Tufts as they had nothing to do with it, but no we are where we are.
As a brief editorial note, it's truly amazing how on edge everyone in the country is to the extent that we can see and feel it even on a D3 soccer site. I see it at work everyday where perceptions of the world (and factions of people) could not be further apart, we see it on the news, we see it in the surging hate crimes since the election, and we see flares here. Interesting (and troubling) times.
I am not defending UMB's antics at all. I do not believe they will be forced to forfeit because it is to late...I do believe the coach should be suspended or even fired.
My main point is that it is very ironic that we have former Amherst players being the first to comment on this teams antics and the antics of their bench. They have the least amount of credibility on this issue and BTW................. there is a HUGE difference at a player throwing a ball FULL SPEED into a players sternum(He could have been killed) then drop kicking a ball into another player(while absolutely stupid he could not have been killed)....I am commenting on the game live and did not get a chance to see full blown replays and zoom-ins.
Man, that headbutt to the ref was bad, culture or not. I have to say the Haverford players handled it pretty well refraining from a war. This could have gotten much worse. I know several teams of the supposed "opposite" culture that would have retaliated. While the culture may have some affect, I've never seen other teams with that supposed "culture" headbutt a ref........
So, I guess I'm saying that the so-called culture excuse can only go so far. Yes, aggressive play, and borderline dirty play is acceptable but not headbutting a ref.......
BTW
Where are the UMB players comments? I have not heard them and do not see a link???
I would like to see medical evidence that throwing a ball at full force at an adult male player 5-10 yards away is more dangerous or potentially lethal than kicking a ball at full force into a sternum or face.
All that aside, and back to soccer, Mr.Right I am curious as to how you think UMass will play against Tufts and whether you think the game will be tight and/or whether you see UMass as having a puncher's chance.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 01:08:18 PM
BTW
Where are the UMB players comments? I have not heard them and do not see a link???
Here are some of the choice ones:
"Harverford, you guys are a bunch of f****ts for posting this video. just accept that you guys lost against 9 players and stop crying.
it is embarrassing that you are actually saying nobody was chanting anything racist,
love,
tu puta madre"
"Say No to Racism at Haverford College!
It was very sad and shocking to become a witness of how strongly racism in college sports still flows thank to the families of the student athletes who managed to send their "miracles" to a college to get formal education but totally forgot to educate them culturally and teach some simple laws of civilized humanity.
To me as a person of a different generation it seems pretty wild how someone in their twenties could be so barbarian and behind the times. How it is possible that someone so young and living in such an advanced country that leads the whole modern world could still have such a medieval set of mind.
During the last Sunday game, YOU, HAVERFORD COLLEGE STUDENTS, YOU - ATHLETES' PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS and THEIR FRIENDS, wanted to humiliate the UMASS Boston team, because they looked different than you, because they played better than you! YOU shouted 'Build the wall!' and other racist and hate statements!
You were happy with every card that Boston team faced, with every inequitable judging. UMASS Boston Athletes had to play with 9 players against 11 of yours and YOU COULD NOT BREAK THEM! Now, after everything you did, sit still on you fifth point and learn how to lose honorably! YOU, who failed to raise respectable members of civilized society, sit still and think what SHAME and WORMWOOD you, and your kids are for this country!"
"Soccer is a contact sport, and everything can happen, but yes, you know better 'sofa and TV remote control experts'!"
"I know for a fact that they are playing. wbu? send me the link of your game i want to watch it online." (in response to Haverford not playing this weekend while UMB are)
"Leave your mail address and I will send you the masonry kit and a plane ticket to the border, so you could finally get up from the couch and go and build the wall you requested on Sunday. Do not thank me!"
"felixcloudy you aren't advancing to the next round. FACTS!!!!!"
"Gravitation is a powerful thing, especially if you walk your head forward, no?" (this one cracked me up because I guess they're saying that the headbutt(s) was due to a strong gravitational force on their heads!)
"Feel free to watch the game online on Saturday. They will be playing soccer while you guys are watching them. Lmao!"
That is a comments section.....Do we have proof that the homophobic slur is an actual player??? No...I do not read comment sections for this reason...I think we should move on from this whole conversation as we should all agree to disagree on some of this stuff.
I think UMB does have a chance to beat Tufts with or without their coach. A slight chance but a chance. I would be shocked if he was coaching this weekend...When UMB plays without Williamson they do not have a monster target striker but they also become instantly faster up top. I think Tufts will close them hard when they have the ball like no other team they have seen this season. They will not be allowed to possess the ball like they are used to. In fact, I was quite surprised Haverford allowed them to possess as much as they did. That will not happen in this game. If Tufts plays like they did against Rowan defensively then UMB has no shot. If they come out sleeping like they did against Springfield then UMB will have some chances to take advantage. UMB does have depth but they will have to play ALOT fastre then they are normally used to playin. Tufts will speed them up and force plenty of giveaway's which Tufts will pounce on and try to score off of. I think Tufts will put this team to bed 2-0 but if Tufts is over confident then this could be an interesting game
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 12:53:41 PM
I am about as far left on the political spectrum as they come but no one does these kids any favors by explaining away behavior that should not be tolerated. Doing so only serves to feed the voracious appetites and arguments on the far right against multi-multiculturalism and increased opportunities for the disadvantaged.
I'm moderate-left, but also agree 100%. Doing what is right morally > feeding a party agenda.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 12:53:41 PM
The videos of the coach that bloots referenced suggest he is pretty immature, basically goofing his way through every interview.
For those of you who don't want to spend time watching the video, I'll sum it up for you:
"Umm I honestly I don't really care about the NJAC, I know that people say they're good but you know there's a lot of people out there who say a lot that don't know what they're talking about, so I'll go on my own accord."
https://youtu.be/kiCBH6QQAs0?t=1m35s
To be fair, he did say he assumed Kean would be a good team. That said, not a very professional statement from a coach who - while "young" compared to other head coaches like Coven, Anderson, etc. - should be more polished. I have seen players conduct themselves more professionally than that; in fact, I would expect college-aged young men to be more professional than that.
I like watching Tufts play, but wanted UMB to go far in the tourney as recently as last week. This weekend changed all of that. Go Tufts.
Still a long way until game time but hats off to the refs in the Tufts v UMB game. That will be a thankless job.
As a reminder, this is the second consecutive year that there has been controversy surrounding the UMass Boston team as they enter the NCAA Tournament. Last year it was 3 players being suspended for tweeting inappropriate things at ESPN announcer Taylor Twellman.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/11/13/taylor-twellman-umass-boston-soccer-twitter/
This is a pretty awful look for this program. They are getting results yes, but the behavior in which they are conducting themselves is flat out embarrassing. As a Division III soccer program, it's not good to find yourself making national news for the wrong thing even one time (the tweets), but to follow that up with this effort where you have an assault on a referee, a separate head butt, and a punted ball into the face of an opponent....wait til this goes viral.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2016, 03:56:33 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 15, 2016, 12:45:43 PM
Just found the video of the second goal in Rutgers-Newark's 2nd goal against ETown - what a hit. They have a camera at the back corner of the goal and usually when you see those videos it just shakes and bounces up but this one you can hear the shot hit the back metal part of the goal. Pretty cool.
https://youtu.be/RLzybL5nArY?t=44s
RUN is the REAL DEAL...That might be the goal of the year.....If they can tighten up defensively they have a chance to win it all.
Da Sousa is the real deal. best of luck to RUN
Anybody have reliable impressions of Redlands? They have played in some big games and did well to get through Wash U and DePauw. I know St Thomas has had a phenomenal season for them, but I would think Redlands is the one team in that sectional with a shot at upsetting Chicago if they can avoid falling behind early.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 16, 2016, 01:46:07 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 12:53:41 PM
I am about as far left on the political spectrum as they come but no one does these kids any favors by explaining away behavior that should not be tolerated. Doing so only serves to feed the voracious appetites and arguments on the far right against multi-multiculturalism and increased opportunities for the disadvantaged.
I'm moderate-left, but also agree 100%. Doing what is right morally > feeding a party agenda.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 12:53:41 PM
The videos of the coach that bloots referenced suggest he is pretty immature, basically goofing his way through every interview.
For those of you who don't want to spend time watching the video, I'll sum it up for you:
"Umm I honestly I don't really care about the NJAC, I know that people say they're good but you know there's a lot of people out there who say a lot that don't know what they're talking about, so I'll go on my own accord."
https://youtu.be/kiCBH6QQAs0?t=1m35s
To be fair, he did say he assumed Kean would be a good team. That said, not a very professional statement from a coach who - while "young" compared to other head coaches like Coven, Anderson, etc. - should be more polished. I have seen players conduct themselves more professionally than that; in fact, I would expect college-aged young men to be more professional than that.
I like watching Tufts play, but wanted UMB to go far in the tourney as recently as last week. This weekend changed all of that. Go Tufts.
i'm going through these comments after not being
on in a few days. so i'm commenting on where i see fit. that coach from umass is an
over confident (i can't say what i want, sadly) but after hearing what he said idk why kids would he want to play for him. i would have loved for his past teams to play some of the NJAC teams from the last few years. but on a brighter note they get to play Tufts who beats every NjAC Team and also the arch nemesis of the NJAC, Messiah.
did a little research on Ocane williamson the one who head butted the referee. he has hopes of playing pro and after that incident kids them goodbye my friend. He could have excelled at a PDL
level then moved on.
found this as well (interesting song choice) 😂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nl8lMg0uyWk
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 16, 2016, 03:13:23 PM
but on a brighter note they get to play Tufts who beats every NjAC Team and also the arch nemesis of the NJAC, Messiah.
Yep.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 16, 2016, 03:13:23 PM
did a little research on Ocane williamson the one who head butted the referee. he has hopes of playing pro and after that incident kids them goodbye my friend. He could have excelled at a PDL
level then moved on.
found this as well (interesting song choice) 😂
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nl8lMg0uyWk
😂
Why is his first highlight him missing? I mean, great effort, and would have been a worldie if it had gone in, but it didn't.
It would have always be an uphill climb, considering he is already 26. The fact that he is that old and did something so stupid BOGGLES my mind. There's no excuse for it, but I could see a hot-headed 18 year old doing something rash - but a man who is 4 years away from his 30th birthday? Cmon. He graduated high school the same year that some kids he is playing against graduated from fifth grade! I hope he has at least apologized for his behavior.
Quote from: GabWirz on November 15, 2016, 11:09:49 PM
This is footage of the 2 red cards and the headbutt that should have resulted in a 3rd red from the Umass Boston - Haverford game. As a former player it's sad to think that the careers of the Haverford seniors were ended in PKs by a team that exhibits this kind of behavior.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZO-ULHFxA&feature=youtu.be
I just saw the video, and the actions of the UMB team are embarrassing to me, the University and the Little East Conference. After watching UMB, this year it is obvious that their Coach, Beverlin either does not or cannot control his players when they fall behind and lose their composure. I personally think Beverlin is a bit arrogant from pre/post game interviews I have watched over the last couple years. The Kang foul and his kicking the ball into the face of the Haverford player was bad in itself, but the two head butts, the last on an official, was way overboard. I see Williamson name is still on the roster as of today. These incidents put a huge black mark on this team...very sad!!
Quote from: ECSUalum on November 16, 2016, 04:35:57 PM
Quote from: GabWirz on November 15, 2016, 11:09:49 PM
This is footage of the 2 red cards and the headbutt that should have resulted in a 3rd red from the Umass Boston - Haverford game. As a former player it's sad to think that the careers of the Haverford seniors were ended in PKs by a team that exhibits this kind of behavior.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ypZO-ULHFxA&feature=youtu.be
I just saw the video, and the actions of the UMB team are embarrassing to me, the University and the Little East Conference. After watching UMB, this year it is obvious that their Coach, Beverlin either does not or cannot control his players when they fall behind and lose their composure. I personally think Beverlin is a bit arrogant from pre/post game interviews I have watched over the last couple years. The Kang foul and his kicking the ball into the face of the Haverford player was bad in itself, but the two head butts, the last on an official, was way overboard. I see Williamson name is still on the roster as of today. These incidents put a huge black mark on this team...very sad!!
arrogant was a much BETTER use of word than i was thinking. but he's like the guy you hate see excel at anything in life. i'm sorry is that too much?
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 16, 2016, 04:03:27 PM
It would have always be an uphill climb, considering he is already 26.
He is 28! D/O/B per UMB roster is 2/24/88 . . .
You're right - I was using the age listed in the highlight video that was previously posted. Makes it even more shameful.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 02:37:45 PM
Anybody have reliable impressions of Redlands? They have played in some big games and did well to get through Wash U and DePauw. I know St Thomas has had a phenomenal season for them, but I would think Redlands is the one team in that sectional with a shot at upsetting Chicago if they can avoid falling behind early.
My first post... as a DePauw fan, I have to say Redlands is a very technical, possessive, and aggressive Team (not dirty though). They are also composed - and they went deep. They seem to be able to hold, their own against good competition which I think Depauw is. Good footwork and crafty. I'm looking to see what happens against Chicago
I'm going to try and make this my last comment about the UMass-Boston saga. I do feel bad for Haverford, and I do lean towards believing the game should have been terminated with Haverford awarded a forfeit. The latter did not happen.
Beyond the above, this is a sad story that UMass will have to suffer itself. UMass should have been one of the great stories of the tournament and indeed the season overall. What had been a magical season with a chance to shine brightly on the school and its mission has devolved into something ugly. Many of us who would be cheering and pulling hard for them as the very talented, upstart underdog now wish they were no longer in the tournament. Many of us would probably appreciate Williamson's story as well (which no doubt would tell us a lot about him), but now we're not really interested. The coach, and by extension his players, could not afford to be blind to an appreciation for how much good they could have done for themselves. Once you get past feeling bad for Haverford and being aghast at the behavior, in my mind the lingering and most important story will be what the team did to itself. For two full years now we've known that UMass's most dangerous opponent was self-implosion. There is no way that at least the coaching staff has not known that. And now here we are....
Quote from: emanfish on November 16, 2016, 05:39:08 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 02:37:45 PM
Anybody have reliable impressions of Redlands? They have played in some big games and did well to get through Wash U and DePauw. I know St Thomas has had a phenomenal season for them, but I would think Redlands is the one team in that sectional with a shot at upsetting Chicago if they can avoid falling behind early.
My first post... as a DePauw fan, I have to say Redlands is a very technical, possessive, and aggressive Team (not dirty though). They are also composed - and they went deep. They seem to be able to hold, their own against good competition which I think Depauw is. Good footwork and crafty. I'm looking to see what happens against Chicago
Thanks. Redlands has made deep runs before and I presume will show up expecting to pull the upset. They were one of my early season faves before they went on a tailspin for a while but obviously they are doing something right now.
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 16, 2016, 05:15:34 PM
You're right - I was using the age listed in the highlight video that was previously posted. Makes it even more shameful.
HOW COME NO ONE POINTED OUT THERE WAS 1:30 LEFT IN THE GAME
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 05:45:55 PM
I'm going to try and make this my last comment about the UMass-Boston saga. I do feel bad for Haverford, and I do lean towards believing the game should have been terminated with Haverford awarded a forfeit. The latter did not happen.
Beyond the above, this is a sad story that UMass will have to suffer itself. UMass should have been one of the great stories of the tournament and indeed the season overall. What had been a magical season with a chance to shine brightly on the school and its mission has devolved into something ugly. Many of us who would be cheering and pulling hard for them as the very talented, upstart underdog now wish they were no longer in the tournament. Many of us would probably appreciate Williamson's story as well (which no doubt would tell us a lot about him), but now we're not really interested. The coach, and by extension his players, could not afford to be blind to an appreciation for how much good they could have done for themselves. Once you get past feeling bad for Haverford and being aghast at the behavior, in my mind the lingering and most important story will be what the team did to itself. For two full years now we've known that UMass's most dangerous opponent was self-implosion. There is no way that at least the coaching staff has not known that. And now here we are....
Couldn't have said it any better. A deep run in the NCAA is a very positive thing for a school and
now it means nothing for them.
Really looking forward to this weekend as Kenyon has never been to New England in the 7 years I've followed the Lords and maybe never. Rare opportunity for alums, families of alums, and friends of the college who live in the Boston area and those in NYC/CT and/or Philly/DC areas who can make the trip. Kenyon tailgating event on Field A at Tufts adjacent to Bello Field prior to Trinity game. Kenyon folks should go to the men's soccer webpage to register. Also a great opportunity for talented prep and public high school players in the area to get a taste of Kenyon soccer and what NCAA tournament-level D3 soccer is like.
#makebellopurple
The Jumbos come away with a strong weekend and are fortunate to have the home game ahead. No matter the opponent I think they are primed and will push through to Sunday. Nate Majumder is fit and will make waves going forward. Becherano and the Halliday brothers are studs. The defense, led by Sullivan, Coleman and Weatherbie will protect and serve. Greenwood will take out the trash. Jumbos 2-0.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 01:06:51 PM
I am not defending UMB's antics at all. I do not believe they will be forced to forfeit because it is to late...I do believe the coach should be suspended or even fired.
My main point is that it is very ironic that we have former Amherst players being the first to comment on this teams antics and the antics of their bench. They have the least amount of credibility on this issue and BTW................. there is a HUGE difference at a player throwing a ball FULL SPEED into a players sternum(He could have been killed) then drop kicking a ball into another player(while absolutely stupid he could not have been killed)....I am commenting on the game live and did not get a chance to see full blown replays and zoom-ins.
2 things to address here: The first is that (to continue with the political theme) Mr. Right seems to have the consistency of Hillary Clinton combined with the grace and delicacy of Donald Trump. There have been more than a few examples of players getting over-the-top violent in past years that Mr. Right seems to quickly forget en lieu of referencing Amherst's bench behavior. For example: a few years back, Peter Lee Kramer of Tufts was suspended for a red card early in the season, then came back after his suspension and threw a HARD elbow at the face of a bowdoin player who had to leave the game ( https://www.instagram.com/p/uwEjgzpPg9/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/uwEjgzpPg9/) ). Kramer was suspended again that season but Mr. Right said later on the threads: "Wow Kramer is usually pretty level headed. Kramer and big ole Sam Williams are two of the best CB's in the country in my opinion." Since then we have not heard 'boo' about Tufts being dirty or cheap. Yet someone in a game COMPLETELY unrelated to Amherst headbutts a ref and Mr. Right goes right to talks of the Amherst bench, and the time one of their players threw a legal throw-in off someone's chest.
Which brings me to my next point... Mr. Right can you please explain the science behind how someone could die from a soccer ball hitting them in the sternum (note, it was a THROW in)? Curious how it is more dangerous than someone kicking a ball at a players head. Furthermore, is it only lethal if the ball-to-the-sternum is a throw in or could it happen if someone kicked the ball as well? I only ask because literally NO ONE has ever died in the sport of soccer from a ball to the chest or sternum and it has happened *thousands* of times. I've attached a link to a list of every player who has died playing professional soccer to make things easier for you. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing) ) While you're looking that up I'd also like to reference your "My advice is to look at your own house first" quote that you shot at Gab Wirz earlier. The Amherst "house" has had 4 NESCAC championships in the last 6 years (and missed the 5th by an inch in extra PKs), a National Championship, one of the best (if not THE best) records in the past 5 years across the NCAA, a handful of NCAA and NESCAC stat records, and a TON of individual recognitions without any suspenions or sanctions (I'm genuinely curious, in the past 5 years have we ever received a straight red?). Yet you've been telling us for years that "The antics can't last forever", "one day the karma will catch up to them", etc.... but will it? Where have Williams and the rest of the NESCAC been up to this whole time? Their coaches might want to spend a little less time reading books on etiquette and a little more time figuring it out what it takes to win soccer games. Serpone clearly has it figured out.
So in conclusion:
I'm disappointed to see haverford lose. I thought they were a good team and obviously UMass is going to have some other issues in the tournament so I think the competitive balance on their side of the bracket dropped off substantially.
I think (and I'm TOTALLY bias) Amherst has the best chance of winning the tournament again this year. They're playing well and, as I said in a post on the NESCAC thread, they have a senior class that you can always count on. We've seen year after year after year that a large, tough-minded senior class is a key to success in November and December.
Apologies to everyone else not named Mr. Right for the aggression here. The guy just gets to me.
Still love you though Mr. Right. The wild thoughts that go on in that cranium of yours will never cease to intrigue me.
RIP Biggie Smalls
this is totally crap - all of it. Videos about soccer players dying? damnit..
there are times Chicago struggles to score and their defense has bailed them out. IMHO Redlands can definitely win this game if , as NCAC New Enlgand stated, they can get on the board first.
FYI-In typical Windy City late fall fashion, Friday forecast 67 degrees and for the Saturday games?
You guessed it, 39 degrees 15-20 mph winds with flurries.
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 16, 2016, 07:03:52 PM
The Jumbos come away with a strong weekend and are fortunate to have the home game ahead. No matter the opponent I think they are primed and will push through to Sunday. Nate Majumder is fit and will make waves going forward. Becherano and the Halliday brothers are studs. The defense, led by Sullivan, Coleman and Weatherbie will protect and serve. Greenwood will take out the trash. Jumbos 2-0.
Please do us all a favor and destroy UMass-Boston this weekend.
Quote from: TribeFan on November 16, 2016, 09:50:47 PM
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 16, 2016, 07:03:52 PM
The Jumbos come away with a strong weekend and are fortunate to have the home game ahead. No matter the opponent I think they are primed and will push through to Sunday. Nate Majumder is fit and will make waves going forward. Becherano and the Halliday brothers are studs. The defense, led by Sullivan, Coleman and Weatherbie will protect and serve. Greenwood will take out the trash. Jumbos 2-0.
Please do us all a favor and destroy UMass-Boston this weekend.
i think you have everyone's backing on this statement
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 16, 2016, 10:32:23 PM
i think you have everyone's backing on this statement
Yes.
Also, here come the articles. Hardly super reputable sources, but don't doubt the potential virality of this story just yet:
Oops #1 (http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/11/16/13654498/this-d3-soccer-game-had-2-red-cards-a-headlock-takedown-and-a-ref-getting-headbutted)
Oops #2 (http://deadspin.com/team-of-bad-soccer-men-does-all-sorts-of-bad-soccer-man-1789059433)
As a referee, I would have abandoned the match after getting assaulted and let the NCAA handle it. However, I'm not sure what they would do in a 1-1 tournament game. Supposedly, there was a phone call made to the NCAA after regulation. If I'm the coach/AD Ocane Williamson (#77) never plays again at my school.
Has there been a statement by UMB or the NCAA about this? I feel like both are trying to just sweep it under the rug by remaining silent...
My last comment on UMASS-Boston:
I am a big believer that coaches should be given positions based on merit rather than age or experience. I was and am a big fan of Brad Stevens, the Celtics coach who was appointed at age 36, and think he is a great leader even if the Celtics aren't in the Warriors/Cavs/Heat class of NBA title contenders. Moreover, I think it is admirable that Beverlin, who appears to be 29 or 30, has brought in a lot of "non-traditional" students (as far as age goes) into the program, as well as players from community college. Certainly a 28-year-old freshman might not be the typical example of a player who is a non-traditional student, but - while soccer may be the catalyst - ultimately these students are working towards an education, something they might not have done otherwise. However, what is evident to me is that Beverlin is simply not mature enough to handle the responsibility of being the head coach of a college soccer program. Certainly, he wasn't the one that kicked the ball into the player's head or assaulted the official, but I have seen zero evidence of any condemnation from him regarding his players' unacceptable antics. Moreover, the aforementioned interviews in which he displays a complete lack of professionalism furthers my belief that he is not mature enough. It is one thing to not be "polished," I know many respectable and reputable individuals who are far from polished, but NCAC said it appeared he was "goofing" his way through interviews, and I think that is a great way of describing it; such behavior is rooted in immaturity. What happened on Sunday may well have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but UMB has had disciplinary problems throughout Beverlin's tenure. Certainly I am only one person, and this is my opinion, but I would implore UMASS-Boston to ask him to resign, because I strongly believe that he's not fit for the job.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 16, 2016, 06:20:14 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 16, 2016, 05:45:55 PM
I'm going to try and make this my last comment about the UMass-Boston saga. I do feel bad for Haverford, and I do lean towards believing the game should have been terminated with Haverford awarded a forfeit. The latter did not happen.
Beyond the above, this is a sad story that UMass will have to suffer itself. UMass should have been one of the great stories of the tournament and indeed the season overall. What had been a magical season with a chance to shine brightly on the school and its mission has devolved into something ugly. Many of us who would be cheering and pulling hard for them as the very talented, upstart underdog now wish they were no longer in the tournament. Many of us would probably appreciate Williamson's story as well (which no doubt would tell us a lot about him), but now we're not really interested. The coach, and by extension his players, could not afford to be blind to an appreciation for how much good they could have done for themselves. Once you get past feeling bad for Haverford and being aghast at the behavior, in my mind the lingering and most important story will be what the team did to itself. For two full years now we've known that UMass's most dangerous opponent was self-implosion. There is no way that at least the coaching staff has not known that. And now here we are....
Couldn't have said it any better. A deep run in the NCAA is a very positive thing for a school and
now it means nothing for them.
Ditto, +1 for NCAC
I will say this. I was at the game but left before the ref headbutt etc. I was surprised Beverlin wasn't very animated trying to calm down his guys. When 25 headbutted Corkery he was immediately subbed off after, but at no point did I see Beverlin or his staff address the young man for what he did.
I'm not sure if he should be fired, but I guarantee you he will be much more selective about the type of people he lets into his program if he does keep the job. Sometimes you take risks on character to win games, and judging on that day it seems obvious he's done that. I would be shocked if he gets those type of kids moving forward, which I'm sure will have a negative impact on his program in regards to talent.
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 16, 2016, 07:03:52 PM
The Jumbos come away with a strong weekend and are fortunate to have the home game ahead. No matter the opponent I think they are primed and will push through to Sunday. Nate Majumder is fit and will make waves going forward. Becherano and the Halliday brothers are studs. The defense, led by Sullivan, Coleman and Weatherbie will protect and serve. Greenwood will take out the trash. Jumbos 2-0.
COUNTING ON IT!!!
Quote from: HooksLeft on November 16, 2016, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 01:06:51 PM
I am not defending UMB's antics at all. I do not believe they will be forced to forfeit because it is to late...I do believe the coach should be suspended or even fired.
My main point is that it is very ironic that we have former Amherst players being the first to comment on this teams antics and the antics of their bench. They have the least amount of credibility on this issue and BTW................. there is a HUGE difference at a player throwing a ball FULL SPEED into a players sternum(He could have been killed) then drop kicking a ball into another player(while absolutely stupid he could not have been killed)....I am commenting on the game live and did not get a chance to see full blown replays and zoom-ins.
2 things to address here: The first is that (to continue with the political theme) Mr. Right seems to have the consistency of Hillary Clinton combined with the grace and delicacy of Donald Trump. There have been more than a few examples of players getting over-the-top violent in past years that Mr. Right seems to quickly forget en lieu of referencing Amherst's bench behavior. For example: a few years back, Peter Lee Kramer of Tufts was suspended for a red card early in the season, then came back after his suspension and threw a HARD elbow at the face of a bowdoin player who had to leave the game ( https://www.instagram.com/p/uwEjgzpPg9/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/uwEjgzpPg9/) ). Kramer was suspended again that season but Mr. Right said later on the threads: "Wow Kramer is usually pretty level headed. Kramer and big ole Sam Williams are two of the best CB's in the country in my opinion." Since then we have not heard 'boo' about Tufts being dirty or cheap. Yet someone in a game COMPLETELY unrelated to Amherst headbutts a ref and Mr. Right goes right to talks of the Amherst bench, and the time one of their players threw a legal throw-in off someone's chest.
Which brings me to my next point... Mr. Right can you please explain the science behind how someone could die from a soccer ball hitting them in the sternum (note, it was a THROW in)? Curious how it is more dangerous than someone kicking a ball at a players head. Furthermore, is it only lethal if the ball-to-the-sternum is a throw in or could it happen if someone kicked the ball as well? I only ask because literally NO ONE has ever died in the sport of soccer from a ball to the chest or sternum and it has happened *thousands* of times. I've attached a link to a list of every player who has died playing professional soccer to make things easier for you. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing) ) While you're looking that up I'd also like to reference your "My advice is to look at your own house first" quote that you shot at Gab Wirz earlier. The Amherst "house" has had 4 NESCAC championships in the last 6 years (and missed the 5th by an inch in extra PKs), a National Championship, one of the best (if not THE best) records in the past 5 years across the NCAA, a handful of NCAA and NESCAC stat records, and a TON of individual recognitions without any suspenions or sanctions (I'm genuinely curious, in the past 5 years have we ever received a straight red?). Yet you've been telling us for years that "The antics can't last forever", "one day the karma will catch up to them", etc.... but will it? Where have Williams and the rest of the NESCAC been up to this whole time? Their coaches might want to spend a little less time reading books on etiquette and a little more time figuring it out what it takes to win soccer games. Serpone clearly has it figured out.
So in conclusion:
I'm disappointed to see haverford lose. I thought they were a good team and obviously UMass is going to have some other issues in the tournament so I think the competitive balance on their side of the bracket dropped off substantially.
I think (and I'm TOTALLY bias) Amherst has the best chance of winning the tournament again this year. They're playing well and, as I said in a post on the NESCAC thread, they have a senior class that you can always count on. We've seen year after year after year that a large, tough-minded senior class is a key to success in November and December.
Apologies to everyone else not named Mr. Right for the aggression here. The guy just gets to me.
Still love you though Mr. Right. The wild thoughts that go on in that cranium of yours will never cease to intrigue me.
RIP Biggie Smalls
Thanks for reminding people how smart I was to say that in October 2014 that Tufts Sam Williams and Peter Lee Kramer were the 2 best CB's in the country as they proved me right by winning the 2014 NCAA Championship. I will say all this UMB talk should go to a new thread as this thread should be talking about the upcoming NCAA games and during the games.
-k to Hooksleft for being such a Amherst homer also +k to Hooksleft for admitting I rile you up. -K to NCAC for saying I was being a contrarian as he should know by now I only write what I feel. I do not go out of my way to write just for the sake of opposing popular opinion. Again, I was typing in real time an did not see the Headbutt or was not privy to slow motion replays and zoom-ins. Now onto the game previews. I think it is only fair to preview games that I have seen the actual teams in play more than once so I will predict a score but not get into specifics for certain games.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 12:06:53 PM
Quote from: HooksLeft on November 16, 2016, 07:51:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2016, 01:06:51 PM
I am not defending UMB's antics at all. I do not believe they will be forced to forfeit because it is to late...I do believe the coach should be suspended or even fired.
My main point is that it is very ironic that we have former Amherst players being the first to comment on this teams antics and the antics of their bench. They have the least amount of credibility on this issue and BTW................. there is a HUGE difference at a player throwing a ball FULL SPEED into a players sternum(He could have been killed) then drop kicking a ball into another player(while absolutely stupid he could not have been killed)....I am commenting on the game live and did not get a chance to see full blown replays and zoom-ins.
2 things to address here: The first is that (to continue with the political theme) Mr. Right seems to have the consistency of Hillary Clinton combined with the grace and delicacy of Donald Trump. There have been more than a few examples of players getting over-the-top violent in past years that Mr. Right seems to quickly forget en lieu of referencing Amherst's bench behavior. For example: a few years back, Peter Lee Kramer of Tufts was suspended for a red card early in the season, then came back after his suspension and threw a HARD elbow at the face of a bowdoin player who had to leave the game ( https://www.instagram.com/p/uwEjgzpPg9/ (https://www.instagram.com/p/uwEjgzpPg9/) ). Kramer was suspended again that season but Mr. Right said later on the threads: "Wow Kramer is usually pretty level headed. Kramer and big ole Sam Williams are two of the best CB's in the country in my opinion." Since then we have not heard 'boo' about Tufts being dirty or cheap. Yet someone in a game COMPLETELY unrelated to Amherst headbutts a ref and Mr. Right goes right to talks of the Amherst bench, and the time one of their players threw a legal throw-in off someone's chest.
Which brings me to my next point... Mr. Right can you please explain the science behind how someone could die from a soccer ball hitting them in the sternum (note, it was a THROW in)? Curious how it is more dangerous than someone kicking a ball at a players head. Furthermore, is it only lethal if the ball-to-the-sternum is a throw in or could it happen if someone kicked the ball as well? I only ask because literally NO ONE has ever died in the sport of soccer from a ball to the chest or sternum and it has happened *thousands* of times. I've attached a link to a list of every player who has died playing professional soccer to make things easier for you. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing) ) While you're looking that up I'd also like to reference your "My advice is to look at your own house first" quote that you shot at Gab Wirz earlier. The Amherst "house" has had 4 NESCAC championships in the last 6 years (and missed the 5th by an inch in extra PKs), a National Championship, one of the best (if not THE best) records in the past 5 years across the NCAA, a handful of NCAA and NESCAC stat records, and a TON of individual recognitions without any suspenions or sanctions (I'm genuinely curious, in the past 5 years have we ever received a straight red?). Yet you've been telling us for years that "The antics can't last forever", "one day the karma will catch up to them", etc.... but will it? Where have Williams and the rest of the NESCAC been up to this whole time? Their coaches might want to spend a little less time reading books on etiquette and a little more time figuring it out what it takes to win soccer games. Serpone clearly has it figured out.
So in conclusion:
I'm disappointed to see haverford lose. I thought they were a good team and obviously UMass is going to have some other issues in the tournament so I think the competitive balance on their side of the bracket dropped off substantially.
I think (and I'm TOTALLY bias) Amherst has the best chance of winning the tournament again this year. They're playing well and, as I said in a post on the NESCAC thread, they have a senior class that you can always count on. We've seen year after year after year that a large, tough-minded senior class is a key to success in November and December.
Apologies to everyone else not named Mr. Right for the aggression here. The guy just gets to me.
Still love you though Mr. Right. The wild thoughts that go on in that cranium of yours will never cease to intrigue me.
RIP Biggie Smalls
Thanks for reminding people how smart I was to say that in October 2014 that Tufts Sam Williams and Peter Lee Kramer were the 2 best CB's in the country as they proved me right by winning the 2014 NCAA Championship. I will say all this UMB talk should go to a new thread as this thread should be talking about the upcoming NCAA games and during the games.
-k to Hooksleft for being such a Amherst homer also +k to Hooksleft for admitting I rile you up. -K to NCAC for saying I was being a contrarian as he should know by now I only write what I feel. I do not go out of my way to write just for the sake of opposing popular opinion. Again, I was typing in real time an did not see the Headbutt or was not privy to slow motion replays and zoom-ins. Now onto the game previews. I think it is only fair to preview games that I have seen the actual teams in play more than once so I will predict a score but not get into specifics for certain games.
Does anyone really care about +K and -K. I find it silly to have this feature. I guess I'll get a -K for that..oh no.
Quote from: luckylefty on November 17, 2016, 10:11:01 AM
I will say this. I was at the game but left before the ref headbutt etc. I was surprised Beverlin wasn't very animated trying to calm down his guys. When 25 headbutted Corkery he was immediately subbed off after, but at no point did I see Beverlin or his staff address the young man for what he did.
I'm not sure if he should be fired, but I guarantee you he will be much more selective about the type of people he lets into his program if he does keep the job. Sometimes you take risks on character to win games, and judging on that day it seems obvious he's done that. I would be shocked if he gets those type of kids moving forward, which I'm sure will have a negative impact on his program in regards to talent.
You left lefty? How unlucky.
My opinion on this mess (sorry to stay in this thread): while the ref and/or NCAA could reasonably have given the game to Haverford, I'm okay that they did not. The "innocent" UMB players won despite being shorthanded.
However, I am incredibly disappointed in the aftermath, or lack thereof. While the NCAA denied UMB the right to host, that appears to be the only action taken (a 9 mile road trip will show them!). The red cards that were given have enabled both the NCAA and UMB to otherwise hedge their bets. In a perverse way, I almost want to see UMB win Saturday just to see what happens when hands are forced. Will the coach/school suspend #77? Will the NCAA?
If
anyone had even a modicum of integrity, these questions would have been addressed already. The coach's future can wait until the season is over.
Mr.Right's Sweet 16 Predictions:
Messiah v Calvin----Could be the best game of the Sweet 16. I cannot comment on Calvin because I have yet to see them play. It sounds like they are a big physical team that will not back down..They came out of 1 of the toughest pods in the NCAA 1st / 2nd round defeating 2 quality opponents. That put to bed the thought that they had not played any real tough teams all year especially in their weak conference. My question is do they have enough up top to score against Messiah or will they be relying on set pieces? After last season's GK debacle at Messiah they have seemed to have remedied that situation faster than I would have predicted. I have only seen them about 3 times this season but they look very dangerous as usual going forward. I think this game has a 1-0 scoreline or PK's written all over it but I have to give the home field advantage to Messiah...1-0 Messiah
Cortland St v F&M----I have only seen these teams play twice all year. I was very impressed with what I saw out of F&M this past week-end. I was unimpressed with what I saw of Cortland St when I caught a game in the middle of the year v Oneonta. I think F&M is the better team BUT could they be looking ahead to a possible dream match-up for them against Messiah? If so, that would spell trouble. I think F&M will dominate possession in this game and not allow Cortland to many chances on net. 2-0 F&M
Tufts v UMASS Boston----This is an interesting match-up that quite possibly should be played every year in the regular season out of conference for both teams. UMB will be missing 2 very key players but they still will have enough to compete. They will be motivated by a US v the World bulletin board material type motivation. As I have said previously they will have to play their futbol MUCH faster then they will be used to. Tufts will be pressing and closing like mad and UMB will not be used to it IMO. Tufts will be forcing giveaway's all over the field and most likely will score off of 1 of them. Tufts will be controlling possession which again UMB will not be used to and quite possibly could get very frustrated by it. I do not agree with the poster who said Majumder is back to 100%. He did score v Rowan but his injury issues(neck / concussions) make him not nearly 100%. He looks a shell of what he did last year but still is obviously a good player even at 75%. UMB can match Tufts speed and skill but will be unable to match Tufts composure and height. I will say UMB's goalie made some fine saves v Haverford especially in Pk's as I thought he was questionable back there. Let's hope for a clean game and no ugliness but Tufts rolls in this one. Tufts 3-0
Amherst v Brandeis------As I previously stated Christopher Martin is playing his best futbol I have seen him play since arriving at Amherst. He is a real danger man that I am not sure Brandeis will be able to handle. They must not let him run at defenders as they must step up and tackle him immediately. That does not mean foul him either because Amherst will have a significant advantage as they usually do in this game off of set pieces. I think Brandeis has enough weapons in midfield and up top to get some great chances on Amherst GK Lee Owen. Owen really struggles with low dipping shots that he cannot catch and routinely coughs them up for juicy rebounds. Ocel, Jastremski and Vieira MUST pounce on these rebounds. Both teams are really playing well right now and have strung together a ton of great wins lately. I will be curious to see Brandeis gameplan as will they sit in 1st Half and absorb some pressure or will they go full throttle right from the get go. I hope it is the latter as if they can score 1st they will have an excellent chance of advancing. Amherst will want revenge for their 2014 PK loss to Brandeis at Oneonta in the Sweet 16 so that will also be on their minds. While I believe this will be a even game can Brandeis get a much needed goal or 2 that they will desperately need. I think so. Brandeis 1-0
RUN v Oneonta St-----I have seen RUN about 7 times this year and am very impressed. They play some nice possession futbol and have individual studs that can score goals that most teams do not have. I still question whether they will look the same on Amherst grass field then they do on their own carpet. I also question RUN defensively sometimes as i have seen them give up a couple soft goals on defensive giveaway's in their own end. I still love the skill of their CB's and love how they look for their strikers feet instead of just panicking and whacking the ball long. Oneonta is a good team but not nearly the same dangerous teams they had in 2014 and 2015. They are young and also possess the ball nicely but give the ball away a ton in the back which will spell big problems against RUN if it continues. This game will be a very entertaining game of true futbol with the ball on the ground and each team possessing nicely. It will be much needed relief after watching the first game of Amherst whacking balls long. Greta match-up but RUN will be to much. RUN 2-1
Trinity(TX) v Kenyon-----I have only seen these teams once each so this is tough for me to predict. I am guessing but I think Trinity is the better team but will need some luck as they quite possibly have been the unluckiest side in D3 soccer along with SLU in the last 10-15 years. While Tufts would relish a revenge game v Kenyon for knocking them out last year in the NCAA's it will not happen. Trinity(TX) 2-0
Chicago v Redlands-----Chicago is legit and has weapons all over the field. I thought they were legit last year but got a little unlucky when they got knocked off in the NCAA's last year. They are on a mission and while I have not seen Redlands yet this year I am not expecting much. This is not the same Redlands program it was 10 years ago when they were out and out nasty....Chicago 4-1
St.Thomas v Benedictine-----I caught 15 minutes of St.Thomas this st weekend and that is it. I have never seen Benedictine play and the only thin I know about them is they are in the same conference as Dominican. They drew with Dominican this year and I was not impressed at all with Dominican when I saw Chicago this year absolutely pick them apart. What does all this mean??? NOTHING...Just a hunch but St.Thomas 2-0
The NCAA didn't deny UMB the home game out of punishment. The fact is that they do not have a true "home" field. They play their games nearby at Boston College High School in Dorchester. If the altercation did not occur and they still won, the game would still be held at Tufts.
People will say they do not care about +k / -k but they do. I actually like the feature especially now that I will only give explanations for a +/- when I used to freely just give them about without explaining why. If everyone would explain why they give the karma it makes for a better site and more discussion which is why the feature is their to begin with IMO. Rudy, you are not the 1st to question it and will not be the last but if you do get a +/- from me I will tell you why.
Slightly related to the UMB fiasco is something that illustrates the problem with PKs deciding who advances.
One of the philosophies behind a red card is to give the offending player's team a direct disadvantage in personnel for the remainder of the game. Does no one else find it incongruous that said disadvantage expires in PKs - especially in this specific case where UMB was playing TWO men down until PKs?
I can obviously see the counter-argument here; if someone's red comes as a result of a second yellow, should that team really have to go 5-on-4 in PKs? But perhaps in a situation where a team has drawn TWO reds, they ought to be at some sort of disadvantage in PKs, no?
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 01:20:37 PM
Mr.Right's Sweet 16 Predictions:
Messiah v Calvin----Could be the best game of the Sweet 16. I cannot comment on Calvin because I have yet to see them play. It sounds like they are a big physical team that will not back down..They came out of 1 of the toughest pods in the NCAA 1st / 2nd round defeating 2 quality opponents. That put to bed the thought that they had not played any real tough teams all year especially in their weak conference. My question is do they have enough up top to score against Messiah or will they be relying on set pieces? After last season's GK debacle at Messiah they have seemed to have remedied that situation faster than I would have predicted. I have only seen them about 3 times this season but they look very dangerous as usual going forward. I think this game has a 1-0 scoreline or PK's written all over it but I have to give the home field advantage to Messiah...1-0 Messiah
Cortland St v F&M----I have only seen these teams play twice all year. I was very impressed with what I saw out of F&M this past week-end. I was unimpressed with what I saw of Cortland St when I caught a game in the middle of the year v Oneonta. I think F&M is the better team BUT could they be looking ahead to a possible dream match-up for them against Messiah? If so, that would spell trouble. I think F&M will dominate possession in this game and not allow Cortland to many chances on net. 2-0 F&M
Tufts v UMASS Boston----This is an interesting match-up that quite possibly should be played every year in the regular season out of conference for both teams. UMB will be missing 2 very key players but they still will have enough to compete. They will be motivated by a US v the World bulletin board material type motivation. As I have said previously they will have to play their futbol MUCH faster then they will be used to. Tufts will be pressing and closing like mad and UMB will not be used to it IMO. Tufts will be forcing giveaway's all over the field and most likely will score off of 1 of them. Tufts will be controlling possession which again UMB will not be used to and quite possibly could get very frustrated by it. I do not agree with the poster who said Majumder is back to 100%. He did score v Rowan but his injury issues(neck / concussions) make him not nearly 100%. He looks a shell of what he did last year but still is obviously a good player even at 75%. UMB can match Tufts speed and skill but will be unable to match Tufts composure and height. I will say UMB's goalie made some fine saves v Haverford especially in Pk's as I thought he was questionable back there. Let's hope for a clean game and no ugliness but Tufts rolls in this one. Tufts 3-0
Amherst v Brandeis------As I previously stated Christopher Martin is playing his best futbol I have seen him play since arriving at Amherst. He is a real danger man that I am not sure Brandeis will be able to handle. They must not let him run at defenders as they must step up and tackle him immediately. That does not mean foul him either because Amherst will have a significant advantage as they usually do in this game off of set pieces. I think Brandeis has enough weapons in midfield and up top to get some great chances on Amherst GK Lee Owen. Owen really struggles with low dipping shots that he cannot catch and routinely coughs them up for juicy rebounds. Ocel, Jastremski and Vieira MUST pounce on these rebounds. Both teams are really playing well right now and have strung together a ton of great wins lately. I will be curious to see Brandeis gameplan as will they sit in 1st Half and absorb some pressure or will they go full throttle right from the get go. I hope it is the latter as if they can score 1st they will have an excellent chance of advancing. Amherst will want revenge for their 2014 PK loss to Brandeis at Oneonta in the Sweet 16 so that will also be on their minds. While I believe this will be a even game can Brandeis get a much needed goal or 2 that they will desperately need. I think so. Brandeis 1-0
RUN v Oneonta St-----I have seen RUN about 7 times this year and am very impressed. They play some nice possession futbol and have individual studs that can score goals that most teams do not have. I still question whether they will look the same on Amherst grass field then they do on their own carpet. I also question RUN defensively sometimes as i have seen them give up a couple soft goals on defensive giveaway's in their own end. I still love the skill of their CB's and love how they look for their strikers feet instead of just panicking and whacking the ball long. Oneonta is a good team but not nearly the same dangerous teams they had in 2014 and 2015. They are young and also possess the ball nicely but give the ball away a ton in the back which will spell big problems against RUN if it continues. This game will be a very entertaining game of true futbol with the ball on the ground and each team possessing nicely. It will be much needed relief after watching the first game of Amherst whacking balls long. Greta match-up but RUN will be to much. RUN 2-1
Trinity(TX) v Kenyon-----I have only seen these teams once each so this is tough for me to predict. I am guessing but I think Trinity is the better team but will need some luck as they quite possibly have been the unluckiest side in D3 soccer along with SLU in the last 10-15 years. While Tufts would relish a revenge game v Kenyon for knocking them out last year in the NCAA's it will not happen. Trinity(TX) 2-0
Chicago v Redlands-----Chicago is legit and has weapons all over the field. I thought they were legit last year but got a little unlucky when they got knocked off in the NCAA's last year. They are on a mission and while I have not seen Redlands yet this year I am not expecting much. This is not the same Redlands program it was 10 years ago when they were out and out nasty....Chicago 4-1
St.Thomas v Benedictine-----I caught 15 minutes of St.Thomas this st weekend and that is it. I have never seen Benedictine play and the only thin I know about them is they are in the same conference as Dominican. They drew with Dominican this year and I was not impressed at all with Dominican when I saw Chicago this year absolutely pick them apart. What does all this mean??? NOTHING...Just a hunch but St.Thomas 2-0
Saw Calvin in person; Messiah against CNU. Calvin is really not that big - smaller than last year's team. What they are is a well-disciplined unit that plays their style - very connected, difficult to penetrate (especially in the middle),and opportunistic with opponent's mistakes. Their three up top can counter in the blink of an eye - and they are good at forcing mistakes in their attacking third. The set piece goal against ONU was "tainted' - both by the officiating and by season-long issues for ONU's keeper on set pieces - but I think they are more likely going to score from high pressure resulting in a turn-over. (Sorry to bring that up NCAC!). Calvin's defense concerned me given the goals they conceded this year - but seeing the two games last weekend I think they are in great form. I don't have enough perspective on Messiah based on one game - CNU's team was gigantic compared to them - but this should be a very even game and 1-0 seems about right - not sure which way.
Redlands also looked good last weekend - but DePauw struggled in both games last weekend - wouldn't say they were close to their early season form. Chicago plays another game without Desai and put last week's game to bed within 30 minutes of the start. They are just so stinking young - handling the pressure as the tournament progresses will be critical.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 01:26:07 PM
People will say they do not care about +k / -k but they do. I actually like the feature especially now that I will only give explanations for a +/- when I used to freely just give them about without explaining why. If everyone would explain why they give the karma it makes for a better site and more discussion which is why the feature is their to begin with IMO. Rudy, you are not the 1st to question it and will not be the last but if you do get a +/- from me I will tell you why.
-K to the poster who expressed appreciation for your point of view and partially supported what you were saying??? OK. Got it. Object to contrarian? How about provocative? Or enjoying distinguishing your views from others? Making a thing of thinking you are smarter? Any of those fit a little better?
-K to you for giving out karma anytime anyone challenges you in the slightest and no matter how reasonably, as though you are the emperor who decides who and what gets blessed and who and what doesn't. Now you're going to cry foul that you didn't see enough data. Then maybe wait until you have the data before you spout off about what is just good "entertainment" on a Saturday afternoon in Philly or Friday night in Jersey. You were WRONG on MSU and WRONG on UMass...and you were WRONG when you felt compelled to defiantly react to a benign suggestion that Midd might struggle to get beyond the 2nd round of the NCAAs by proclaiming Midd would host all the way to the Final Four.
Quote from: sunny on November 17, 2016, 01:41:01 PM
Slightly related to the UMB fiasco is something that illustrates the problem with PKs deciding who advances.
One of the philosophies behind a red card is to give the offending player's team a direct disadvantage in personnel for the remainder of the game. Does no one else find it incongruous that said disadvantage expires in PKs - especially in this specific case where UMB was playing TWO men down until PKs?
I can obviously see the counter-argument here; if someone's red comes as a result of a second yellow, should that team really have to go 5-on-4 in PKs? But perhaps in a situation where a team has drawn TWO reds, they ought to be at some sort of disadvantage in PKs, no?
The game is over at the end of overtime though. PKs are just a tiebreaker for tournaments. It goes down as a tie on the scoresheet. The disadvantages become irrelevant because the game is technically over.
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 17, 2016, 01:23:19 PM
The NCAA didn't deny UMB the home game out of punishment. The fact is that they do not have a true "home" field. They play their games nearby at Boston College High School in Dorchester. If the altercation did not occur and they still won, the game would still be held at Tufts.
Messiah v Calvin----2-0 Messiah
Cortland St v F&M----3-0 F&M
Tufts v UMASS Boston----1-0 Tufts
Amherst v Brandeis------Amherst 1-0 but could see it 1-0 Brandeis
RUN v Oneonta St-----Oneonta St 1-0
Trinity(TX) v Kenyon-----Trinity(TX) 1-0 in a difficult and not too confident pick
Chicago v Redlands-----Chicago 2-1
St.Thomas v Benedictine----St.Thomas 2-1
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 17, 2016, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 01:26:07 PM
People will say they do not care about +k / -k but they do. I actually like the feature especially now that I will only give explanations for a +/- when I used to freely just give them about without explaining why. If everyone would explain why they give the karma it makes for a better site and more discussion which is why the feature is their to begin with IMO. Rudy, you are not the 1st to question it and will not be the last but if you do get a +/- from me I will tell you why.
-K to the poster who expressed appreciation for your point of view and partially supported what you were saying??? OK. Got it. Object to contrarian? How about provocative? Or enjoying distinguishing your views from others? Making a thing of thinking you are smarter? Any of those fit a little better?
-K to you for giving out karma anytime anyone challenges you in the slightest and no matter how reasonably, as though you are the emperor who decides who and what gets blessed and who and what doesn't. Now you're going to cry foul that you didn't see enough data. Then maybe wait until you have the data before you spout off about what is just good "entertainment" on a Saturday afternoon in Philly or Friday night in Jersey. You were WRONG on MSU and WRONG on UMass...and you were WRONG when you felt compelled to defiantly react to a benign suggestion that Midd might struggle to get beyond the 2nd round of the NCAAs by proclaiming Midd would host all the way to the Final Four.
Ouch.....Someone is a little sensitive...I remember you complaining about karma and why it would be much better to explain why someone is giving it. I gave you my explanation and you fly off the handle..Then you complain about me giving karma for disagreeing and proceed to give it right back..PETTY....Cant have it both ways...I by no means think I am some sort of emperor and do not give negative karma to anyone that challenges me....That is silly. Wirz challenged me and I did not give him -k...Free speech baby I can spout during the game as much as I please as you often do...To be truthful it was good entertainment, stupid and petty but still good entertainment. Grow up
Odds for Making the 2016 NCAA Final 4
Chicago -140
Messiah +125
Amherst +125
Trinity(TX) +135
Tufts +140
RUN +140
Calvin +150
Kenyon +150
F&M +150
Brandeis +160
Oneonta +175
St.Thomas +200
Redlands +225
Cortland St +225
UMASS Boston +350
Benedictine +400
Quote from: sunny on November 17, 2016, 01:41:01 PM
One of the philosophies behind a red card is to give the offending player's team a direct disadvantage in personnel for the remainder of the game. Does no one else find it incongruous that said disadvantage expires in PKs - especially in this specific case where UMB was playing TWO men down until PKs?
I can obviously see the counter-argument here; if someone's red comes as a result of a second yellow, should that team really have to go 5-on-4 in PKs? But perhaps in a situation where a team has drawn TWO reds, they ought to be at some sort of disadvantage in PKs, no?
I could agree with this, although I do see the counter-argument as well.
On a somewhat related note, for all of the excitement it features, I personally dislike OT without a chance for the other team to reply (sudden death). I propose an alternative: the team who scores first has almost won the game, but - time-permitting - the other team gets one attack from the kickoff to try and equalize. If the team who scored clears the ball past the halfway line ("hoofing it" is OK as long as the ball stays in bounds), the game is over. Sure, bad bounces or flukes are part of the game, but I think it does make sense to give the other team at least one opportunity to salvage something. Might be an unpopular opinion without probably a snowball's chance at becoming a thing, but I know that many dislike sudden death OT as well.
Odds For Winning the 2016 National Title:
Chicago +200
Messiah +225
Trinity(TX) +275
Amherst +280
Tufts +300
RUN +300
Calvin +325
Brandeis +375
F&M +400
Oneonta +400
Kenyon +500
St.Thomas +800
Redlands +1000
Cortland St +1000
UMASS Boston +1600
Benedictine +2000
Also,
Hooksleft it seems you are very confident that Amherst will repeat as NCAA champions. Let's put your wallet where your mouth is..I'll even give you better odds tahn I have projected...If interested you can email me and we can discuss the details.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 03:06:54 PM
Ouch.....Someone is a little sensitive...I remember you complaining about karma and why it would be much better to explain why someone is giving it. I gave you my explanation and you fly off the handle..Then you complain about me giving karma for disagreeing and proceed to give it right back..PETTY....Cant have it both ways...I by no means think I am some sort of emperor and do not give negative karma to anyone that challenges me....That is silly. Wirz challenged me and I did not give him -k...Free speech baby I can spout during the game as much as I please as you often do...To be truthful it was good entertainment, stupid and petty but still good entertainment. Grow up
LOL. That's sad.
First of all, you still usually DO NOT give a reason. And secondly, you act like giving a reason inoculates you in some truly bizarre way when your reasons almost always are infantile and inane.
Again...You are way to sensitive...Now your complaining about my reasoning and the level of it...Give me a break...You complain about everything...Just let it go and move on...I have shifted my focus to the games coming up and you and others keep bringing it back to UMB and my reasoning skills...Move on and tell us about the Kenyon matchup with Trinity which would be more helpful for the rest of us who do not know much about Kenyon
So Mr. Right, you give Tufts a +140 chance to make it to the final 4 but no odds to win it all?
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 17, 2016, 03:58:19 PM
So Mr. Right, you give Tufts a +140 chance to make it to the final 4 but no odds to win it all?
My bad.....Thanks for the heads up....I just fixed it
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 03:30:06 PM
Benedictine +2000
Still better odds than Leicester! Get your Benedictine bets in now.
Redlands at +1000... I'll bite only because of the possible path. I could see St. Thomas PKing their way in to a FINAL FOUR if they get Chicago.
Second bite, Trinity +275... based off potential match-ups. Still leaning with original prediction of Trinity over Tufts (per my bracket).
I'd put Brandeis at about 6/1... Amherst / RUN or Oneonta / Messiah/Calvin/F&M/Cortland is a very very tough draw. I'd wager that Amherst DOES NOT reach the Final Four. I've do RUN in my final four, but Oneonta St should beat them and secure the spot...
Messiah should have just enough depth to get passed Calvin and then beat F&M or Cortland 2 or 3 - rock.
MAF Predictions: Sweet 16 Edition
Messiah v Calvin----2-1 Calvin
Cortland St v F&M----1-0 F&M
Tufts v UMASS Boston----4-2 Tufts
Amherst v Brandeis------Amherst 1-0 OT
RUN v Oneonta St-----Oneonta St 1-1 2OT (Ononeta advances in PKs 5-4)
Trinity(TX) v Kenyon-----Trinity(TX) 2-0
Chicago v Redlands-----Chicago 2-1 OT
St.Thomas v Benedictine----St.Thomas 2-1
Sweet 16 predictions
Messiah 2 - Calvin 0
Cortland St 0 - F&M 2
Tufts 2 - UMASS Boston 1 (I would have picked UMass-Boston if at full strength)
Amherst 2 - Brandeis 0
RUN 2 - Oneonta St 1
Trinity(TX) 3 - Kenyon 1
Chicago 2 - Redlands 0
St.Thomas 1 - Benedictine 1 (St.Thomas in PKs)
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 17, 2016, 04:26:32 PM
Redlands at +1000... I'll bite only because of the possible path. I could see St. Thomas PKing their way in to a FINAL FOUR if they get Chicago.
Second bite, Trinity +275... based off potential match-ups. Still leaning with original prediction of Trinity over Tufts (per my bracket).
I'd put Brandeis at about 6/1... Amherst / RUN or Oneonta / Messiah/Calvin/F&M/Cortland is a very very tough draw. I'd wager that Amherst DOES NOT reach the Final Four. I've do RUN in my final four, but Oneonta St should beat them and secure the spot...
Messiah should have just enough depth to get passed Calvin and then beat F&M or Cortland 2 or 3 - rock.
I agree I think Trinity(TX) gets to the Final 4 out of that pod but since I only saw them once I have to see for myself against Kenyon
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 03:35:01 PM
Also,
Hooksleft it seems you are very confident that Amherst will repeat as NCAA champions. Let's put your wallet where your mouth is..I'll even give you better odds tahn I have projected...If interested you can email me and we can discuss the details.
Let me remind all of you, and I feel like this isn't the first time I've had to do this, but being compensated for the performance of a team in the NCAA is illegal, "The NCAA opposes all forms of legal and illegal sports wagering, which has the potential to undermine the integrity of sports contests and jeopardizes the welfare of student-athletes and the intercollegiate athletics community".
That being said, how Amherst isn't, the favorite, baffles the mind.
I don't have an ultimate prediction on Kenyon vs Trinity, but I'll offer the following. I'm mildly surprised at most of the predictions suggesting a pretty comfortable win for Trinity. I'm not displeased because I think the underdog role suits Kenyon just fine and while the Lords have very high expectations there is not the same pressure playing a fellow national title contender away from home as hosting like they did the prior two years with the internal pressure of being the "favorite." Certainly Trinity is a strong title contender. 22-1 speaks for itself and they very easily could have won the Elite 8 game at Amherst last year. I've watched them play and they are very good and very talented. That said, Kenyon also was probably looking more likely to score against Calvin in their Elite 8 game when, as Domino noted, the Lords had a fatal and totally avoidable defensive miscue in like the 84th minute that determined the 1-0 outcome. It's no coincidence that Kenyon's hype video for the tourney this year begins with that very play. The current seniors have been to 4 straight Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 game. They have played in some massive games going all the way back to their frosh years when they knocked off ONU and Wheaton (Ill) and lost to Messiah. The juniors and sophs have played massive games with OWU, Chicago, Tufts, NCAC tourney games, Lynchburg on the road last week, etc, etc. Even frosh have played a full season with a team that started the season with high expectations. Kenyon has been playing under heavy pressure for at least the past 3 weeks because of the SoS thing and while not always pretty they came through and are sitting at a respectable 19-2 with an 11 game winning streak and another Sweet 16 appearance. Kenyon will have to play its best soccer to go deeper but that's probably true of most of the other teams as well. I see a 1 goal game either way that likely goes to OT and will be one of games of the entire tournament. If Kenyon can manage to score first, and if they can maintain the same intensity and focus for 90 minutes I think it's possible the Lords could pull away. Bottom line...I don't know who will win but I would be shocked if Kenyon did not show very, very well. After that, regardless of who wins, I think Tufts has an equal or better chance to get through because of the easier first game (on paper) and home field advantage. I don't think Tufts students go on break for Thanksgiving week so the Jumbos should have a very good turnout. I'm expecting that Kenyon will have a decent fan turnout for a team so far away. Very excited for Saturday to get here.
Quote from: Letthekidsplay59 on November 17, 2016, 07:00:22 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 03:35:01 PM
Also,
Hooksleft it seems you are very confident that Amherst will repeat as NCAA champions. Let's put your wallet where your mouth is..I'll even give you better odds tahn I have projected...If interested you can email me and we can discuss the details.
Let me remind all of you, and I feel like this isn't the first time I've had to do this, but being compensated for the performance of a team in the NCAA is illegal, "The NCAA opposes all forms of legal and illegal sports wagering, which has the potential to undermine the integrity of sports contests and jeopardizes the welfare of student-athletes and the intercollegiate athletics community".
That being said, how Amherst isn't, the favorite, baffles the mind.
Thanks mom....The NCAA is talking about active student athletes not fans since Vegas posts lines on all NCAA D1 football and Basketball games...I am not an active student athlete...While I do not mind baffling the mind but Amherst is not the favorite because they are not as strong as they were in 2015. They have holes that can be exploited and have a big question mark in net. These odds are not based on last years results but this years performances...
Well, the Tufts GK has also come under scrutiny with his alleged failure to handle flighted balls into the box, especially between the 12 and the 6. Does that mean they don't have a chance either? Or does Shapiro go back to playing around with the GK starter for Saturday's match?
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 01:26:07 PM
People will say they do not care about +k / -k but they do. I actually like the feature especially now that I will only give explanations for a +/- when I used to freely just give them about without explaining why. If everyone would explain why they give the karma it makes for a better site and more discussion which is why the feature is their to begin with IMO. Rudy, you are not the 1st to question it and will not be the last but if you do get a +/- from me I will tell you why.
Everyone knows I don't care about karma. Hah!
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 07:17:00 PM
Quote from: Letthekidsplay59 on November 17, 2016, 07:00:22 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 17, 2016, 03:35:01 PM
Also,
Hooksleft it seems you are very confident that Amherst will repeat as NCAA champions. Let's put your wallet where your mouth is..I'll even give you better odds tahn I have projected...If interested you can email me and we can discuss the details.
Let me remind all of you, and I feel like this isn't the first time I've had to do this, but being compensated for the performance of a team in the NCAA is illegal, "The NCAA opposes all forms of legal and illegal sports wagering, which has the potential to undermine the integrity of sports contests and jeopardizes the welfare of student-athletes and the intercollegiate athletics community".
That being said, how Amherst isn't, the favorite, baffles the mind.
Thanks mom....The NCAA is talking about active student athletes not fans since Vegas posts lines on all NCAA D1 football and Basketball games...I am not an active student athlete...While I do not mind baffling the mind but Amherst is not the favorite because they are not as strong as they were in 2015. They have holes that can be exploited and have a big question mark in net. These odds are not based on last years results but this years performances...
I would give you a +k on this post Mr right if I believed in karma. Entertaining comment.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 17, 2016, 08:12:19 PM
Well, the Tufts GK has also come under scrutiny with his alleged failure to handle flighted balls into the box, especially between the 12 and the 6. Does that mean they don't have a chance either? Or does Shapiro go back to playing around with the GK starter for Saturday's match?
I've already covered what I think of Owen - although as I said I would like to see him do well - but as far as Tufts goes I think they stick with Greenwood. As much as Greenwood is questionable on high balls, he is extremely reliable otherwise, and I think he has been the best 'keeper in the NESCAC this year. Moreover, he very rarely gives up rebounds, and his .525 GAA and .867 save percentage are 9th and 10th in the country, respectively. That said, set pieces can make all the difference NCAAs, and I am sure that other teams will be sending high balls into the box.
Messiah 2
Calvin 0
I think this will be a solid 2-0 win for Messiah. Dispite Mr.Right's crys last year that the Messiah dynasty was over, here they are once again in the sweet sixteen. I don't think Calvin's front runners will be able to penetrate the Messiah back four. The Messiah wingers will have success and midfielder and NPOY candidate Jacob Bender will control the middle third.
Cortland St 0
F&M 1
Two good teams but I give the edge to F&M. Former Messiah player and current F&M head coach has done a great job with this program. Pennsylvania would love to watch a Messiah vs F&M rematch in the Elite 8.
Tufts 1
UMass 1 (UMass in PK's)
I hate to predict this. I'm no Tufts fan and they really lost me when they lost two in a row to Bowdoin. But man, I hope I'm wrong on this one. But UMass can play soccer (when they are not up to their shenanigans) and I fear some kind of reverse psychology might get them up for this one even though they are down players. Need Tufts to really show up for this one. For this game...a very sincere GO JUMBOS!!!...send UMass home so they can really think about their behavior and hopefully mend their ways.
Amherst 0
Brandeis 1
RUN 2
Oneonta St 1
Trinity(TX) 0
Kenyon 2
I think Trinity's lack of playing against good competition will catch up to them.
Chicago 2
Redlands 0
Seems that Chicago just has too much mojo for Redlands.
St.Thomas 0
Benedictine 1
I haven't been around much, given work travel. Lots of bickering, but that's what the tourney does.....that umass Boston video was something. I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of sanction is imposed at some point. Rooting for the Judges and Jumbos..... looking for some reports for those attending the games....
Sweet 16 Predictions
Messiah 2 - Calvin 1
Cortland St 1 - F&M 0
Tufts 3 - UMASS Boston 2
Amherst 2 (OT) - Brandeis 1
RUN 2 - Oneonta St 0
Trinity(TX) 2 - Kenyon 1
Chicago 1 - Redlands 2
St.Thomas 2 - Benedictine 0
Simmer down please, Mr. Right. Even Mr. Right can be Mr. Wrong sometimes!
Also, Lee Owen is more than capable in net for Amherst. Anyone who disagrees should reference Amherst's NCAA win against St. Lawrence in 2014 when Bull was taken out for the shootout because Owen is such a good shot stopper. He's not as massive or commanding as Bull, but still a very solid goalkeeper.
Shooter's Thoughts
Messiah v Calvin----2-1 Messiah in OT (own goal for Calvin sends Messiah through despite being the weaker side)
Cortland St v F&M----1-0 Cortland (Cortland will dominate and the score won't reflect the game)
Tufts v UMASS Boston----2-1 UMass Boston (They want to be the villain and it only fuels their fire)
Amherst v Brandeis------Amherst 1-0 OT (Amherst sneaks by and continues the quest to repeat)
RUN v Oneonta St-----Oneonta St 3-2 (Toughest game to predict so flip a coin. Heads Oneonta. Tails RUN. It was heads)
Trinity(TX) v Kenyon-----Trinity(TX) 2-1 (Kenyon is no match for an experienced Trinity squad)
Chicago v Redlands-----Chicago 1-1 2OT (Chicago advances on PKs 4-2 and avoids disaster)
St.Thomas v Benedictine----St.Thomas 1-0 (No clue about either of these teams so lets go with this)
Quote from: ultimateD3soccerexpert on November 18, 2016, 08:19:29 AM
Simmer down please, Mr. Right. Even Mr. Right can be Mr. Wrong sometimes!
Also, Lee Owen is more than capable in net for Amherst. Anyone who disagrees should reference Amherst's NCAA win against St. Lawrence in 2014 when Bull was taken out for the shootout because Owen is such a good shot stopper. He's not as massive or commanding as Bull, but still a very solid goalkeeper.
Saying someone is a "good shot stopper" by citing his ability to stop PKs is like judging a quarterback solely by his ability to execute QB sneaks - it is a component of the position, but does not illustrate the gamut of responsibilities. Not a perfect parallel - while certain QBs are "running QBs" and his team's offense may be based around the ground game, a goalkeeper cannot choose to face primarily penalty kicks in the way a QB can choose to primarily run the ball - but I think you get where I'm coming from. We have referenced that very result, and I've also referenced the PK that he stopped against Midd., but from open play he gives up a concerning number of rebounds and doesn't handle high balls well. He is not a bad goalkeeper by any means, but doesn't inspire confidence in the way that Bull did or other goalkeepers who are on teams with national title ambitions - Hill Bonin, etc. - do.
That said, I've also said that if one or more games in the tournament was to come down to PKs - and I imagine that, should Amherst get to the Final again, one most likely will - that the Jeffs could well have an advantage with Owen in net. That is why they play the games!
Bloots, great job on the Midwest piece. I can imagine those aren't easy when you aren't previously very familiar with most of the teams. That Kuplic story should be a full future article! Would love to hear his story between getting cut and then coming back several years later and what happened in between.
Thinking forward to tomorrow, I am particularly intrigued by Tufts vs. UMass-Boston. As a previous poster said, it seems that UMB likes to be the villain. With that said, I think Tufts really needs to score first; UMB is certainly capable of imploding, as we've seen, but the fact that they came back from 1-0 down with 10 men and then hung on with 9 suggests that they won't quit. And if they get a head of steam by getting a goal, Tufts could well be in trouble.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 18, 2016, 09:27:59 AM
Bloots, great job on the Midwest piece. I can imagine those aren't easy when you aren't previously very familiar with most of the teams. That Kuplic story should be a full future article! Would love to hear his story between getting cut and then coming back several years later and what happened in between.
Cheers! I do a fair amount of research to compensate for my lack of inherent knowledge, but that was by far my favorite discovery while researching (and writing) for that piece.
Quote from: ultimateD3soccerexpert on November 18, 2016, 08:19:29 AM
Simmer down please, Mr. Right. Even Mr. Right can be Mr. Wrong sometimes!
Also, Lee Owen is more than capable in net for Amherst. Anyone who disagrees should reference Amherst's NCAA win against St. Lawrence in 2014 when Bull was taken out for the shootout because Owen is such a good shot stopper. He's not as massive or commanding as Bull, but still a very solid goalkeeper.
Owen is average at best and will be the reason Amherst does not win the 2016 NCAA Championship. I will be the first to admit if I am wrong but as I have said before he lacks confidence back there and is a real liability with low dipping shots from even 25-35 yards out. He will "stop" them but coughs up plenty of juicy rebounds that good teams will pounce on. After the 3-0 drubbing Amherst suffered at Tufts, Serpone made one change the next day v Bates. You guessed it he changed GK and started his Frosh in net. Coaches do not just make changes for no reason. I will give him credit for going back to Owen after that which I thought was an odd move but since then he has not really been tested except for the Wesleyan game in which he gave up 2 goals. Conn, Hamilton,Trinity(2x) and Daniel Webster did not put to much pressure on him. He might prove me wrong this weekend and I will admit that if it happens but the pressure is on now going against stronger competition.
Messiah 2 - Calvin 1
Cortland St 0 - F&M 1
Tufts 2 - UMASS Boston 1
Amherst 2 - Brandeis 0
RUN 3 - Oneonta St 1
Trinity(TX) 2 - Kenyon 0
Chicago 2 - Redlands 1
St.Thomas 1 - Benedictine 0
Messiah 3 - Calvin 1
F&M 2 - Cortland St. 1
Tufts 2 - UMASS Boston 0
Kenyon 3 - Trinity 2
Amherst 2 - Brandeis 0
RUN 4 - Oneonta St. 2
Chicago 3 - Redlands 1
St. Thomas 3 - Benedictine 2
Of all the Sweet 16 games who do people think the biggest margin of victory will be and who will get it done?
Mr. Right...
o/u on games decided by PKs... 2.5
o/u on games reaching OT... 3.5
Messiah 2 - Calvin 0
Cortland St 0 - F&M 1
Tufts 3 - UMASS Boston 0
Amherst 1 - Brandeis 1 / Brandeis in PKs
RUN 2 - Oneonta St 2 / RUN in PKs
Trinity(TX) 2 - Kenyon 1
Chicago 2 - Redlands 2 / Redlands in PKs
St.Thomas 1 - Benedictine 0
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 18, 2016, 01:09:59 PM
Mr. Right...
o/u on games decided by PKs... 2.5
o/u on games reaching OT... 3.5
PK's-Over
OT-Under
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2016, 11:41:45 AM
Of all the Sweet 16 games who do people think the biggest margin of victory will be and who will get it done?
Redlands will hang tough but I think Chicago beats them by two goals. Probably 3-1.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 17, 2016, 08:18:21 PM
Everyone knows I don't care about karma. Hah!
+K for this. :D
I think the game that stands out to me that could be the biggest margin of victory would be Tufts defeating UMB, however I have a feeling UMB is going to make it a game and Tufts is not known for scoring a ton of goals.
I also would say he Chicago v Redlands game would be another one to pick for biggest margin but I have not seen Redlands play this year. I just am not expecting the Redlands of 5-10 years ago when they were nasty.
If Messiah scores early and forces Calvin to go at them it is possible they could get a 2-3 goal margin of victory but I really feel that game will be extremely close.
So I am going to go with F&M defeating Cortland St by the biggest margin of victory this weekend.
Less than 4 hours from kickoff at Shoemaker...
I'm expecting Calvin versus Messiah to be a great game. I don't know if the very similar missions of the schools and types of young men recruited to them adds to the drama or not, but regardless these are two teams that hardly ever lose and should be expecting to win. The natural pick is Messiah as we are seeing from posters offering predictions, and given how good Messiah has been looking and the home field that makes sense. However, don't be shocked if Calvin advances. The key is to still be in the game late (with a full 11 men) so that Messiah starts feeling the pressure of realizing they could lose. Calvin's centerback duo is as good as any pair in the country. Groenwald got most of the attention last year and now Vegter this year, but Noyola who has partnered with both them of them is rock-solid. As I suggested in another post regarding the field size, another key will be how much Messiah can get Calvin spaced out and nobody should be better at attempting to do just that as Messiah. As someone else alluded to the game may be decided by Messiah's pace on the wings. I don't have a good feel for how well Calvin's outside backs can handle the Messiah wingers. Messiah probably has more overall firepower as their offense could come from basically anywhere, but if Calvin can get a goal I would like their chances to grind out the game with a lead.
In the other game, which Cortland will show up? The squad that lost to Oneonta 3-0 or the one that beat Oneonta (and everyone else) late in the season? I think F&M will believe they should win this game and I'm gonna guess that they will.
Quote from: D3soccerwatcher on November 17, 2016, 08:18:21 PM
Everyone knows I don't care about karma. Hah!
+K for this. :D
[/quote]
Hey blooter - your post got a chuckle out of me. Thanks!
RH nailed the Transcontinental. Well done.
More of a NESCAC guy so I'll stick with what I know...
Amherst 2 - 0 Brandeis: Amherst at home and on grass is a difficult task, especially for what I see as a Brandeis team that likes to play on the ground and can be easily affected by Amherst's physicality and speed. Amherst definitely the favorite for the title in my mind
Tufts 1 - 2 UMASS Boston: All the people swinging in Tufts' favor have short term memories. When it counts and against teams they are overconfident about (supposed to beat), Tufts loses. Simple as that. UMB loves to play the villain and you can bet they won't be caught thinking about Mr. Wirz or Haverford, they'll be gunning all out to win. Just don't think Tufts has the consistency or mentality to win this game, and if by some miracle they do win this game because UMB is short handed, they'll lose the next one.
Hope Tufts proves me wrong because NESCAC teams advancing further adds legitimacy to the league, but those are just my thoughts.
SoccerFollower, I know what you mean about Tufts being overconfident, but I think they realize how lucky they were to get a bid. And, having been knocked out in last year's Sweet 16 in heartbreaking fashion, I would imagine the team understands the dangers of getting cocky. That being said, I think UMB will give them a hell of a game - I'm not expecting UMB to stop playing chippy for a multitude of reason (it's their identity, the NCAA and school have been mum about the Haverford game, etc.). Looking forward to watching this one!
Would peg Amherst as the favorite tomorrow against Brandeis, but I was disappointed to learn that this indeed happened as Mr.Right said.
During the NESCAC semi against Bowdoin, after a Bowdoin defender scored the own-goal equalizer, Mr.Right alleged that it appeared that an Amherst player hugged the defender - and not like a "sorry this happened to you" sort of hug, but a more mocking sort of hug. I was suspicious of the allegations, but I watched the highlight video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CwXDgfoTsM) multiple times and while the vantage point is far away (behind the bench, so the other side of the field) I came to the same conclusion.
It does happen quite fast, so I took screengrabs to illustrate the progression of the incident:
Pre-hug (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BypZHNl-L5WSdlZYd2kzaWJaUU0)
Wrapping arms (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BypZHNl-L5WSSlo2T1k4Q01TcmM)
Hug (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BypZHNl-L5WScFV0cEVOWGF6Z0U)
Of course, emotions are running high, and we've all perhaps gloated or rubbed it in during games. Moreover, this isn't meant to be an indictment of Amherst as a program - simply one incident. However, to hug another player in mocking fashion goes beyond simple gloating, and is not very classy in my opinion.
Can you tell which player it is?
Quote from: letsGOswans! on November 18, 2016, 02:52:50 PM
Can you tell which player it is?
Not affirmatively, but my guess is Hlinomaz.
Emotions do run high during games. Especially the ones that are high stakes.
Question: Should we start listing them all today? If I told you that I could bring the team you (meant universally, not directed at the previous poster) support under this dark cloud, would you still wish to perpetuate this string? I'm sure we all have moments that we remember. Is this what we want to do?
Also, wrong on the player whose name you just posted. So if we are going to smear, let's at least get it right.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 18, 2016, 03:00:10 PM
Also, wrong on the player whose name you just posted. So if we are going to smear, let's at least get it right.
I never said that I had definitive knowledge of who the player was, so I hope you enjoyed telling me I was "wrong," although I never claimed to be "right" with my guess.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 18, 2016, 02:59:15 PM
Question: Should we start listing them all today? If I told you that I could bring the team you (meant universally, not directed at the previous poster) support under this dark cloud, would you still wish to perpetuate this string? I'm sure we all have moments that we remember. Is this what we want to do?
Go ahead. If someone made allegations against the team I support - and, you're right, there are things that its players have done that I am not proud of - I would say "X player did do that and I condemn his actions" rather than "well yeah but look at what X team did, other teams do this stuff, too." The former is acknowledging the actions and condemning them; the latter is diverting attention. As for Amherst, I do believe that a certain amount of the animosity targeted at the program is rooted in envy of the Jeffs' success, success which is indisputable, but anecdotally speaking I have seen far more accusations of unsportsmanlike behavior against Amherst than any other side with comparable prestige. Given the disproportionately high occurrence of those claims being made against Amherst in comparison to other teams with similarly illustrious CVs, I have a hard time believing that they don't contain (at least
some) merit.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 18, 2016, 02:59:15 PM
Emotions do run high during games. Especially the ones that are high stakes.
J4J, I know you pride yourself on being objective, but the way you continually excuse or dismiss allegations against Amherst by seeking to divert attention elsewhere when such allegations are made is tiring, and makes me doubt the veracity of your claim to being objective. If you admitted or acknowledged these things, or even simply ignored them and didn't try to contest them, I would have no choice but to say "J4J is an Amherst supporter but can at least be unbiased and I respect that." So far, aside from a solitary post in which you acknowledged that Tufts deserved to win on 10/1, I have not seen any of that objectivity. It is understandable that you want to defend your team, but diverting attention - rather than acknowledging or ignoring the statements altogether - would not be what I would choose to do, and I am disappointed that you have chosen the first option. All I was saying is that I was disappointed to learn that this allegation - which I doubted when I first read it - happened to be true. That's it.
Jacob Bender with the Bender 1-0 Falcons ::)
WOW...Bender with an absolute rocket for Messiah to give them a 1-0 lead. They have dominated possession so far 10 minutes in and have been pingin it around the field nicely...Still long way to go...
OK, Jacob Bender, that's not fair. Wow!
Quote from: Medicated Pete on November 18, 2016, 05:11:00 PM
Jacob Bender with the Bender 1-0 Falcons ::)
Nominative Determinism.
Fantastic save by the Calvin 'keeper. The finish was somewhat central, but as the informative announcers said, the fact that he stayed home and didn't get caught in no-mans-land showed excellent decisiveness and awareness.
Greetings, here are my picks for the weekend: https://soundcloud.com/young-frederick-141492098 (https://soundcloud.com/young-frederick-141492098)
Messiah misses a chance to go up 2-0 on a "sick" burst of speed and skill by Messiah's West on the left flank and a beautiful ball across the box should have been finished...Absolute wheels on the flank there for West and great service again I think it should have been finished as he hit it right at the GK. Always want to grab that 2-0 lead if you can, just ask Haverford.
This is a very good, competitive game with high-quality play all-around. Messiah passing the ball as well as any team I've seen this year and Calvin looks dangerous on the counter.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 18, 2016, 05:48:19 PM
This is a very good, competitive game with high-quality play all-around. Messiah passing the ball as well as any team I've seen this year and Calvin looks dangerous on the counter.
Agreed.....I have a hunch there are some more goals in this game
Calvin's best chance of the game a few minutes into the second half off of a header from a free kick. My knowledge is mostly confined to NE teams, so perhaps it's not a surprise that I'm just finding this out, but I am impressed with Calvin's close control - it's certainly better than I would have guessed.
Bang, bang. 1-1. Messiah punished for not making their dominance pay. I suspect Calvin will start to sit in more.
Calvin doesn't strike me as a team that is going to just sit back and defend.
Calvin's coach must of lit a fire under his teams ass...They looked like a totally different team 2nd Half...They have conrolled play for the most part 2nd Half especially last 20 minutes...They are a very dangerous team and had they not come out asleep 1st Half they might of had a lead.
Quote from: FalconFan on November 18, 2016, 06:33:51 PM
Calvin doesn't strike me as a team that is going to just sit back and defend.
Agreed. In Calvin's mind they are the best team in the country. How many final fours in last 8-9 years? Undefeated last year until Loras knocked them out I think 1-0 in national semis.
I suppose my feeling was due to a lack of knowledge re: Calvin. I just knew that last year their defense was super stingy and that was how they got to the Final 4, but I have been super impressed with them on the counter.
Unbelievably good first sweet 16 game.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 18, 2016, 07:13:33 PM
Unbelievably good first sweet 16 game.
Agreed. This game has had a real punch - counter punch flow to it.
Congrats to Calvin, what a game that was.
Heartbreaker for Messiah, but congrats to Calvin. What a great, competitive game.
Vegter was superb. Game saving tackle and takeaway inside the six.
Outstanding game.
Messiah keeper has quite a mullet.
Congratulations to the Knights. They deserved to win this one and showed how much heart they have. It must be especially gratifying to them, considering that the Falcons have beaten them more than once in the tournament recently, in games just as close as this one.
I'm so pleased to see how far the Falcons came from the opening of 2015 to the close of 2016. The main thing they lacked this year was a target. I don't know whether that problem will be solved next season, but nearly all of the top players return so I would anticipate an even deeper run next year.
Jacob Bender is obviously irreplaceable. I said months ago that he's on my all-time Falcon team as perhaps (with JD Binger) one of the two best all-around players Messiah has ever had.
I predict Calvin now goes all the way.
Bloots, thanks for the dialogue.
I have never professed to be objective! ;D
I agree that unsportsmanlike behavior taints the game. The hug shouldn't have happened. (Ironic that we're talking about hugs when headbutts kicked this back-and-forth off!)
And: posters shouldn't take every opportunity to evoke Amherst's name every time another team commits an act of poor sportsmanship.
This practice has become habit, especially by He Who Should Not be Named (who has offered many informative posts but can't help himself when it comes to his nemesis for some reason).
I'm not trying to distract. I'm just saying that folks are quick to throw Amherst into every mention of everyone else's dirty laundry. If I come across as defensive, it's because I am!
Wish I had seen the Messiah/Calvin game. Caught the OT. The end comes quickly.
Great game and I must say Calvin looked more fit and fired up as the game wore on. I was going to say that this is where Messiah's schedule does them no favors when they start playing quality opponents but certainly Calvin does not have a great schedule either so that is a wash. Calvin really impressed me 2nd Half as they have some motor..That is a Final 4 team and NCAA Champion if they continue to play like they did 2nd Half and OT. 1st half they looked asleep and Messiah could and should have put them away but did not and as Haverford saw last week you cannot keep teams in games.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 18, 2016, 07:34:48 PM
Bloots, thanks for the dialogue.
I have never professed to be objective! ;D
I agree that unsportsmanlike behavior taints the game. The hug shouldn't have happened. (Ironic that we're talking about hugs when headbutts kicked this back-and-forth off!)
And: posters shouldn't take every opportunity to evoke Amherst's name every time another team commits an act of poor sportsmanship.
This practice has become habit, especially by He Who Should Not be Named (who has offered many informative posts but can't help himself when it comes to his nemesis for some reason).
I'm not trying to distract. I'm just saying that folks are quick to throw Amherst into every mention of everyone else's dirty laundry. If I come across as defensive, it's because I am!
Wish I had seen the Messiah/Calvin game. Caught the OT. The end comes quickly.
Fair response! +K
Van Dorne and Witte were fantastic too. Calvin coach took Wheaton to national final as a GK and this Calvin GK looks as good as the kid last year.
And let me acknowledge that the Messiah announcers for the most part were very fair and did a good job with a huge audience.
Coach must have made some kind of adjustment because Messiah wingers were doing what I thought they might in the 1st half and then were almost silent in the 2nd. Calvin wingers got stronger as the game went on and started breaking through. Impressive road so far beating ONU, CMU at CMU and now Messiah at Messiah.
And fyi, looking ahead...Calvin knocked F&M out last year.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2016, 07:36:14 PM
Great game and I must say Calvin looked more fit and fired up as the game wore on. I was going to say that this is where Messiah's schedule does them no favors when they start playing quality opponents but certainly Calvin does not have a great schedule either so that is a wash. Calvin really impressed me 2nd Half as they have some motor..That is a Final 4 team and NCAA Champion if they continue to play like they did 2nd Half and OT. 1st half they looked asleep and Messiah could and should have put them away but did not and as Haverford saw last week you cannot keep teams in games.
Two golden opportunities in first half to score second goal to give them a cushion they really needed. As you suggested it might come back to bite then. Calvin was relentless in 2nd half. Great leadership from the Messiah seniors. They will be missed. unfortunately someone has to lose. Would have been nice for them to go to final 4 their last season..feel bad for them. Congratulations to Calvin ..they earned it.
Great game. Falconer, I'd like to get your thoughts on why you predict Calvin will go all the way. I'm
Curious to know about the three draws this year and if they gave up leads or came back to tie.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2016, 07:36:14 PM
Great game and I must say Calvin looked more fit and fired up as the game wore on. I was going to say that this is where Messiah's schedule does them no favors when they start playing quality opponents but certainly Calvin does not have a great schedule either so that is a wash. Calvin really impressed me 2nd Half as they have some motor.
Calvin's got a whole slew of freshman midfielders who come in like a hockey line for a few minutes each half, and Calvin doesn't lose much. The freshmen (mostly attacking middies) play maybe a third of the game and they have nearly a third of Calvin's goals -- 18 out of 60. Calvin didn't sub much last year, but this year, subbing in these 5 freshmen, the starters can play harder while they are in.
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 18, 2016, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2016, 07:36:14 PM
Great game and I must say Calvin looked more fit and fired up as the game wore on. I was going to say that this is where Messiah's schedule does them no favors when they start playing quality opponents but certainly Calvin does not have a great schedule either so that is a wash. Calvin really impressed me 2nd Half as they have some motor.
Calvin's got a whole slew of freshman midfielders who come in like a hockey line for a few minutes each half, and Calvin doesn't lose much. The freshmen (mostly attacking middies) play maybe a third of the game and they have nearly a third of Calvin's goals -- 18 out of 60. Calvin didn't sub much last year, but this year, subbing in these 5 freshmen, the starters can play harder while they are in.
There you are! Was wondering where you were. Congrats and good luck today. I imagine the weather might affect the game today - hopefully not too badly.
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 19, 2016, 08:17:12 AM
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 18, 2016, 09:31:41 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 18, 2016, 07:36:14 PM
Great game and I must say Calvin looked more fit and fired up as the game wore on. I was going to say that this is where Messiah's schedule does them no favors when they start playing quality opponents but certainly Calvin does not have a great schedule either so that is a wash. Calvin really impressed me 2nd Half as they have some motor.
Calvin's got a whole slew of freshman midfielders who come in like a hockey line for a few minutes each half, and Calvin doesn't lose much. The freshmen (mostly attacking middies) play maybe a third of the game and they have nearly a third of Calvin's goals -- 18 out of 60. Calvin didn't sub much last year, but this year, subbing in these 5 freshmen, the starters can play harder while they are in.
There you are! Was wondering where you were. Congrats and good luck today. I imagine the weather might affect the game today - hopefully not too badly.
Thanks!
The weather forecast is sunny with a high of 69, then a 30% chance of rain at game time and possible snow later. We'll hope the weather takes its time in getting there...
In Grand Rapids we had a high of 70 yesterday, and right now it's snowing with an inch of accumulation in the forecast.
In a curious and IMHO surprising move, Chicago has decided to play the round of sixteen games today on their grass pitch instead of the turf. I believe they had played their last 6 or 7 games total on turf (could be off on those #s). Couple questions for anyone that may have insight. Does the NCAA have any say on where they play? Does anyone know whether Redlands, st Thomas and Benedictine play homes games on grass or turf?
I thought if you are hosting or apply to host THEN you must play on the field where you played the majority of your games during the season. At least that used to be the rule and I am not sure if it has changed.
I was unable to catch the F&M v Cortland matchup last night as I had to go out to dinner...I do not see any live reports...was it a deserved win? Does anyone have a report?
It was an even played game. The pitch was very slippery. Cortland outshot F & M 21-16. Both teams had chances, Cortland had a few great chances that they failed to score on. F & M scored in OT when two of Cortland defenders fell leaving the F & M player wide open for the scoring shot.
I just took a photo overlooking the Chicago athletic fields. You can see the maroon tents coming out on the grass field. Looks like it won't be on turf.
http://m.imgur.com/3zH3O3R
This Tufts/ UMB game hasn't even started and I can't stand their play by play guy.... Too many "Uh's" and can't pronounce names! Yikes!!!!!
Quote from: NEsoccerfan20 on November 19, 2016, 11:06:26 AM
This Tufts/ UMB game hasn't even started and I can't stand their play by play guy.... Too many "Uh's" and can't pronounce names! Yikes!!!!!
He's not great, but the color guy is even worse!
Come on Amherst, you have a $2.2 Billion with a "B" endowment fund and you can't afford HD cameras for your soccer program? So far the match is a table tennis match, hopefully they settle down and start stringing togethe some nice passes.
Amherst v Brandeis game so far is very choppy as expected. They will not allow Brandeis to possess as they press and close very fast. Amherst does not want to possess so do no expect passes being strung together. One Note....Brandeis is fouling to much early and they just cannot give Amherst all these set pieces as that their bread and butter.
Brandeis with a 1-0 lead on a superb move by Vieira down the flank and great service for the goal...I believe it was Jastremski who finished.
Nice run by Ajayi, he is definitely a livewire down the side. Is he a back or a winger? I remember seeing him just playing hoofball last year but it seems like he is playing out wide more today.
Amherst definitely shading it in the opening stages, but the Judges' increase team size has them at least competitive. Vieira the catalyst on this field for the Judges as he was last year against Trinity (TX) in a 2-0 loss.
As I write this Vieira gets down the right side, sends a ball in, Amherst fails to clear and the ball gets put home. Jastremski gets the credit for the goal, although all that I saw was that it ended up going in.
Worst thing that Brandeis can do is sit in, I think they have to get another if they have any hope of getting a result. Even then it might not be enough - we saw Amherst come back from 2-0 down against Wesleyan. Regardless, this early goal has to have messed up the Amherst game plan, and I will be curious to see how they respond.
Elsewhere, looks like UMASS-Boston has showed up to play against Tufts. Can't stand the Tufts color guy and my Wi-Fi is only good enough to support one stream - the Brandeis-Amherst stream - so I am just watching that, but see that UMB is outshooting Tufts 6-1. Whether that translates to goals, who knows, but I don't think UMB has any illusions of going home without putting up a fight :D (Pun fully intended sorry, sorry, had to, couldn't resist). Seriously, though, UMB more than holding its own, at least as far as the stats go.
Yes they are...Tufts looks VERY FLAT so far...Almost like all they needed to do was show and win but to be honest I am watching Amherst v Brandeis and listening to Tufts v UMB.
Woodhouse in the Brandeis goal has dealt well with the inevitable barrage of high balls into the box. Owen has done the same for Amherst, and I must say I didn't think he could have done anything about the goal.
Brandeis holding their own and more v Amherst 1st Half. They have looked the better team but they have had a few questionable giveaway's by their backs but Amherst has not converted on them. They must be more cautious with short square balls in the back v Amherst because of Martin and Hlionmaz.
NOTE: Rumor has it this quite possibly will be the final year for Mike Coven at Brandeis. Not 100% sure but I have heard this from a couple different people. A final 4 would be a great way to go out but I am jumping ahead of myself...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2016, 11:49:54 AM
NOTE: Rumor has it this quite possibly will be the final year for Mike Coven at Brandeis. Not 100% sure but I have heard this from a couple different people. A final 4 would be a great way to go out but I am jumping ahead of myself...
:o
Obviously a rumor, but I can see it. Coven has had an illustrious career and Margolis has been waiting in the wings and has been running the tactics for the most part from what I know.
Orozco finishes a nice cross and heads it past Brandeis GK Woodhouse who had no chance...1-1
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2016, 12:17:13 PM
Orozco finishes a nice cross and heads it past Brandeis GK Woodhouse who had no chance...1-1
Finely poised. I said that I thought Brandeis needed a second goal...wonder if they will keep going forward for the winner. I would suspect so, but I would imagine that Amherst might have the advantage if the game goes to PKs with Owen being a PK specialist.
Amherst appealing for a handball in the box. Looked like it might have been one to me but nothing given. Judges perhaps lucky to get away with one there.
Elsewhere, Tufts finally breaks the deadlock against UMB and Redlands up 1-0 on Chicago in the first half. Tufts started slowly but has grown into the game, but I think that - at least based on their flat start today - Trinity or Kenyon could give them a stern test tomorrow.
For as much as Rojas was highly-touted coming into Tufts I think Tasker has been the Jumbos' rookie of the year by far. I was able to get a second game going and he is getting involved and moving around well.
Brandeis is hanging on here as they look a bit tired...They have not had a real sniff 2nd Half but Amherst has not had to many either but Brandeis has been pinned in a bit 2nd Half.
Huge let-off for Brandeis as I think it was Orozco got down the left and crossed the ball right in front. Wasn't cleared but no Amherst player was able to finish it.
Tufts ends UMB's run and advances to the Elite 8.
Amherst v Brandeis heading to OT. Vieira had a nice chance to slide a cross low for a possible finish but he over hit it and went high. You must go low especially against Amherst.
I'll be at the Kenyon/Trinity game.
Will be in a top corner of the stands.
Navy pants, blue sweater, navy hat, brown vest.
Say hello, would love to meet some other posters.
Uchi 1-1 Redlands
Chicago having the better of it after conceding early.
IMHO Chicago has more than just the better of it, they have dominated both possession and opportunities. I would think they will get a couple more before it's over
Redlands 2-1 with 30ish or so left in regulation.
Amherst and Brandeis headed to PKs. This could be Owen's time to shine.
Redlands 3-1! WOW. This is where Chicago has to prove its true colors.
Redlands has come out in the second half with a completely different mentality than first half. Much more agrssive. 3-1 redllands
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 01:29:28 PM
Amherst and Brandeis headed to PKs. This could be Owen's time to shine.
More like Woodhouse's time to shine! What a game for both teams. Enjoy the offseason, Amherst.
Brandeis downs Amherst on PKs, 3-1. Woodhouse with 3 saves.
Good, well-fought game by both teams. Amherst shaded it in general play and dominated the stats but the Judges came to play today and more than held their own. Especially proud of Brandeis considering I said on multiple occasions I didn't think they'd make NCAAs, but to not only make it but make it to the Elite 8 is more than I would have imagined.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2016, 01:38:00 PM
More like Woodhouse's time to shine! What a game for both teams. Enjoy the offseason, Amherst.
Well I knew Owen had a good PK pedigree and Woodhouse is no slouch but certainly didn't expect him to save 3 PKs. Wow. I'm very OK with your correction!
Big Win for Brandeis in PK's...Woodhouse the MVP...I thought he might have moved early on Ciambella's kick and I also thought Ocel's kick was very casual but Brandeis and Woodhouse get it done...Your 2015 NCAA Champions will not be repeating
the plague fails to advance once again on their own pitch, as Brandeis continues on through penalty kicks 3-1!
Chicago gets one back for 3-2. Big last 15 minutes coming up.
Brandeis GK was superb in PKs. Vieira is very good. Good luck to Coven's group going forward.
Also, good luck to Tufts.
Maroons hit the post with a minute remaining! Wow. This is a barnburner.
That was lopez with wide open header that hit post
Final score 3-2 Redlands. Chicago had chances but couldn't finish them and Redlands made them pay. Tough way for the Maroons to lose for the first time this season but they had more than enough chances and should have taken over the game after getting back to 1-1. Chicago loses Desai and Weis but returns a lot of talent next year so I would imagine that they will continue to be a tough out. Congrats to the Bulldogs.
Quote from: 4samuy on November 19, 2016, 02:00:59 PM
That was lopez with wide open header that hit post
Thanks. I couldn't tell, my guess was Desai. So far I'm 0 for 2 in the last day in terms of identifying players. ;)
Desai hasn't played played all tournament. I believe he was suspended for two games after receiving his second red card of the year against Washington U and because of the first round bye, he was ineligible for second round and today. I think that is what happened. If someone knows different please post.
Quote from: 4samuy on November 19, 2016, 02:30:57 PM
Desai hasn't played played all tournament. I believe he was suspended for two games after receiving his second red card of the year against Washington U and because of the first round bye, he was ineligible for second round and today. I think that is what happened. If someone knows different please post.
Interesting. I knew he got a red against WashU but didn't realize that it was his second of the year. ::)
Rutgers-Newark 3-up against Oneonta inside a half-hour. :o I knew that this wasn't the Oneonta team of the last two years, but definitely didn't see that coming.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 02:47:48 PM
Rutgers-Newark 3-up against Oneonta inside a half-hour. :o I knew that this wasn't the Oneonta team of the last two years, but definitely didn't see that coming.
Man...Im pissed I missed the 1st Half as would have loved to see RUN goals...They are on a mission for sure. Some streams you can rewind back but not this one apparently.
Kenyon up 2-0 with about 40 minutes left. Trinity has to try to get a goal in the next 20-25 minutes without conceding to get back into this,
Forget it...Trinity is self destructing...3-0 Kenyon on a horrific mistake...
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 19, 2016, 01:48:25 PM
Brandeis GK was superb in PKs. Vieira is very good. Good luck to Coven's group going forward.
Interestingly, I believe Vieira wanted Amherst / Williams / Midd and they passed....He has proven them all WRONG...He just works his ass off and especially inthe 1st half today he was very dangerous
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2016, 03:12:44 PM
Interestingly, I believe Vieira wanted Amherst / Williams / Midd and they passed....He has proven them all WRONG...He just works his ass off and especially inthe 1st half today he was very dangerous
If I recall correctly, he went to SLU for one year before transferring to Brandeis.
Vieira's a much different player than he was when he arrived at Brandeis. Probably the most improved player on the roster. Back-to-back Sweet 16s in which he has more of an impact than his decorated teammate in the midfield.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 19, 2016, 03:18:28 PM
Vieira's a much different player than he was when he arrived at Brandeis. Probably the most improved player on the roster. Back-to-back Sweet 16s in which he has more of an impact than his decorated teammate in the midfield.
Agree with all of this. It's funny, he got some time his freshman year and I remember watching him run - he had the most awkward gait I have ever seen, it almost seemed like he was about to fall over while running. After the game, I asked Coven "who is this Vieira kid? He runs super weird." He said "you watch, Zach Vieira is a
good soccer player." He's proven me right, and then some.
Whatever Viera lacks in skill he makes up for with heart. The kid is a real sparkplug and a joy to watch.
Holy crap St Thomas are some big boys. Benedictine looks like the Lilliputians.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
Whatever Viera lacks in skill he makes up for with heart. The kid is a real sparkplug and a joy to watch.
I would venture to say that he has some pretty good skill! This (https://youtu.be/2rq266q_G5Q) goal against Tufts in Brandeis' 2-0 win back in '14 was pretty sweet, a year in which the Judges were one of only 2 teams to beat the eventual natty champs.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 03:24:15 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
Whatever Viera lacks in skill he makes up for with heart. The kid is a real sparkplug and a joy to watch.
I would venture to say that he has some pretty good skill! This (https://youtu.be/2rq266q_G5Q) goal against Tufts in Brandeis' 2-0 win back in '14 was pretty sweet, a year in which the Judges were one of only 2 teams to beat the eventual natty champs.
Agreed, and I certainly did not mean to imply that he is a skilless brute. Even in that clip, the skill was top notch, but without the effort and fight that he clearly displayed he wouldn't have been able to score that goal.
Congrats to Brandeis. Good revenge. Yes, the Tufts announcers were poor. UMB looked quick on the video. Tufts came out flat but controlled the last 60 minutes. Mr .Right was correct about UMB's pace. Trinity looks small and not as athletic as Kenyon, who has a somewhat NESCAC style. Let's hope Jumbos can get some nice revenge...
Who is who in the St.Thomas v Benedictine game?....Wonder why Chicago randomly switched to the grass field?
Got it...St.Thomas are in white...They are big boys..
For an Amherst fan, fun to see Benedictine in the Sweet 16, let alone up, 1-0. Head coach in his first year after a successful stint as an assistant at Amherst. Yes, I'm looking for some quick healing. ;)
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2016, 03:52:37 PM
Agreed, and I certainly did not mean to imply that he is a skilless brute. Even in that clip, the skill was top notch, but without the effort and fight that he clearly displayed he wouldn't have been able to score that goal.
Certainly true. There were about 2 or 3 times during that sequence where it looked like the chance had gone, but he kept fighting and got his reward. Hopefully he brings the same level of commitment tomorrow, I am confident that he will leave it all out on the field.
From what I have seen St.Thomas is the better team and deserves a goal here to even the game up. Benedictine is sitting 10 deep and whacking everything in sight. I cannot believe Chicago could not get out of this group...I hope the redlands match starts at 2pm ET tomorrow so we can catch a look at them. I have still not seen them play but I cannot believe they are as good as they were 10 years ago. Maybe I am wrong
Hm. Have been watching only since about the 57th minute, and, except for a stretch of about three minutes, I would give possession to Benedictine. Makes sense that the longer the game goes on, the more Benedictine will feel inclined to drop and cover. In the meantime, St. Thomas will begin to have belief and press.
Announcer keeps remarking about the windy conditions. Hopefully, the wind won't score.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 19, 2016, 03:03:08 PM
Forget it...Trinity is self destructing...3-0 Kenyon on a horrific mistake...
trinity played too easy of a schedule this season.
Amazing. St. Thomas forces the tie. Wind helped on that one for sure. Sitting in against the wind may be the only option late in the game to protect a one-goal lead, but now Ben U has to tighten up big time. Winning the coin toss for OT, if it stays even, will be key.
Kenyon absolutely eviscerated Trinity. Could have easily been as much as 6-0, just a phenomenal game from the Lords. Really look like they have a chance to go all the way, especially with all the upsets today. Tufts will be a fun rematch from last year but I see the Lords coming through with the W.
I will say this, in the Chicago Redlands match I believe Redlands won the toss and selected to take the wind in the first half. They came out and scored first and chicago tied at end of the half. I am not kidding because I was there, the wind changed directions in the second half and gave Redlands the wind at their back again. It definitely did not have an effect on any of the goals that were scored but did impact set pieces, goal kicks and where possessions started etc.
Tommies!
Your John Madden statement of the day: Regardless of who advances out of this quad tomorrow, it's safe to say that not many would have anticipated them getting to the Final 4.
Yes, it's St. Thomas. I feel like I jinxed Ben U. :P
Great run for an unranked team to make it to the Sweet 16 after winning their first-ever conference championship. Congrats to the Tommies.
What a great goal for St.Thomas...beauty of a finish...Nice comeback win
Quote from: 4samuy on November 19, 2016, 04:58:04 PM
I will say this, in the Chicago Redlands match I believe Redlands won the toss and selected to take the wind in the first half. They came out and scored first and chicago tied at end of the half. I am not kidding because I was there, the wind changed directions in the second half and gave Redlands the wind at their back again. It definitely did not have an effect on any of the goals that were scored but did impact set pieces, goal kicks and where possessions started etc.
That is why a coach SHOULD ALWAYS take the wind 1st Half because the wind can always change directions especially in Chicago or New England or anywhere really.
Interested to see how Calvin comes out and plays today...Looks like horrific conditions with rain and wind at messiah
What time does Tufts play Trinity tomorrow?
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 19, 2016, 05:53:26 PM
What time does Tufts play Trinity tomorrow?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 05:57:07 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 19, 2016, 05:53:26 PM
What time does Tufts play Trinity tomorrow?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc
LOL and +K.....although I admit I don't get the revenge angle. Kenyon was denied a chance to play Tufts in 2014. Last year Kenyon earned home field and Tufts had a great run that was unexpected. Now Tufts has home field. Should be a great game and I doubt revenge will have anything to do with it.
Kudos to UMass-Boston. Given the circumstances, they handled themselves well and played well. Very talented team and too bad they didn't let us see them at full strength. They came out on fire and then faded a little.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 19, 2016, 06:04:55 PM
LOL and +K.....although I admit I don't get the revenge angle. Kenyon was denied a chance to play Tufts in 2014. Last year Kenyon earned home field and Tufts had a great run that was unexpected. Now Tufts has home field. Should be a great game and I doubt revenge will have anything to do with it.
Kudos to UMass-Boston. Given the circumstances, they handled themselves well and played well. Very talented team and too bad they didn't let us see them at full strength. They came out on fire and then faded a little.
Certainly true, but - disregarding context - Tufts had its season ended by Kenyon scoring a 90th-minute winner last year. That's where my revenge idea came from. Either way, looking forward to the match.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 19, 2016, 03:15:51 PM
If I recall correctly, he went to SLU for one year before transferring to Brandeis.
I don't think he went to St. Lawrence, but I did find a page from before the 2013-14 school year started saying that he changed his choice from SLU to Brandeis. My initial thought was "if he did go to SLU, he didn't play," because he played 4 seasons at Brandeis. He would have done well up there, but I'm happy with his choice!
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 06:14:20 PM
Certainly true, but - disregarding context - Tufts had its season ended by Kenyon scoring a 90th-minute winner last year. That's where my revenge idea came from. Either way, looking forward to the match.
I think any team likes to get a shot at the team that eliminated them the previous season. Perhaps redemption is the better word than revenge.
Quote from: FalconFan on November 19, 2016, 06:18:45 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 06:14:20 PM
Certainly true, but - disregarding context - Tufts had its season ended by Kenyon scoring a 90th-minute winner last year. That's where my revenge idea came from. Either way, looking forward to the match.
I think any team likes to get a shot at the team that eliminated them the previous season. Perhaps redemption is the better word than revenge.
Got it, but when one team won a title just 2 years ago and another program has been searching for one for four straight years the redemption angle seems to heavily slant to one side. Given how Tufts has found itself getting in the tourney the last 3 years and their overall good fortune including now a completely unforeseen home advantage I'm not compelled on either revenge or redemption but obviously every team will use whatever motivation it can. We'll embrace the underdog role which suits us well.
This has been one heck of a second half for Calvin
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 19, 2016, 06:30:30 PM
Got it, but when one team won a title just 2 years ago and another program has been searching for one for four straight years the redemption angle seems to heavily slant to one side. Given how Tufts has found itself getting in the tourney the last 3 years and their overall good fortune including now a completely unforeseen home advantage I'm not compelled on either revenge or redemption but obviously every team will use whatever motivation it can. We'll embrace the underdog role which suits us well.
Also true. Kenyon would be a deserved Final 4 side. I think that home field could be advantageous for Tufts but I think Kenyon will know that Tufts is, while hot at the right time and hosting, by no means unbeatable. The underdog status is an interesting point, and I think Kenyon will indeed be the underdog despite a superior record and national ranking because Tufts does have a target on their backs after beating Rowan and hosting this pod. They have been the underdogs in the past, particularly 2014, but are perhaps now the favorites in the pod, and it will be curious to see how they cope with that newfound pressure, although I'd think the pressure of being in a NCAA title game is greater than hosting in the Elite 8. Either way, should be fun!
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 06:17:23 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 19, 2016, 03:15:51 PM
If I recall correctly, he went to SLU for one year before transferring to Brandeis.
I don't think he went to St. Lawrence, but I did find a page from before the 2013-14 school year started saying that he changed his choice from SLU to Brandeis. My initial thought was "if he did go to SLU, he didn't play," because he played 4 seasons at Brandeis. He would have done well up there, but I'm happy with his choice!
Thank you for the correction. I knew that there was something linking him to SLU floating around in my memory, but it must not have involved his actually playing there!
Tufts 2- Keynon 1. Tufts goes through.
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 19, 2016, 06:44:46 PM
Tufts 2- Keynon 1. Tufts goes through.
Are you implying that Greenwood is going to concede a goal?! ;) I kid, I kid, all in good fun NEPitch.
I appreciated the expert color commentary in the Calvin-F&M game. Was that "our" Flying Weasel on the mic?
Blooter, I've always been of the mind set that each team gets one goal per game. The Jumbos have been fortunate enough to prove me wrong to this point - and I'm happy about that. But at this stage of the tourney, yes, I concede the we may have to give one to get two. :)
Quote from: NEPitch62 on November 19, 2016, 06:58:36 PM
Blooter, I've always been of the mind set that each team gets one goal per game. The Jumbos have been fortunate enough to prove me wrong to this point - and I'm happy about that. But at this stage of the tourney, yes, I concede the we may have to give one to get two. :)
Fair enough. Just don't be too generous! ;)
(For the record, I am a neutral in this one, as it's two programs that I like to watch and have great respect for - I just want to see a good game.)
No, generous stops at 1 Blooter. Zero is the goal (no pun intended) Go Jumbos!
In 2014, when Brandeis beat Amherst on penalties, I believe Lee Owen stepped in as goalie for the PK shootout. Is he really a PK specialist or was Bull that poor at penalties.
Did anyone watch the run vs oneonta game? Other than 15 minutes terrible defending by oneonta they completely dominated run. 12-1 in corners says it all. Prediction is run will lose to Brandeis tomorrow
Quote from: 4samuy on November 18, 2016, 08:59:53 PM
Great game. Falconer, I'd like to get your thoughts on why you predict Calvin will go all the way. I'm
Curious to know about the three draws this year and if they gave up leads or came back to tie.
Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I'm on the road today and haven't seen a single game or visited the board until now. I base my conclusion (so far looking good) on two things: (1) my ability to evaluate the quality of Messiah's teams, vis-a-vis other years; and (2) the eye test for Messiah's opponents, especially when the Falcons bring their "A" game--and they absolutely brought their "A" game in the first half yesterday. They should have scored at least 3 goals on Calvin, and surely would have scored at least 3 on almost any other team in the nation yesterday. That's how well they played that half.
I don't know why they wouldn't have continued that "A" game in the second half, at this point in the season and with holding to that pattern for the last two months. So, I'm just assuming that Calvin was the reason that the Falcons were seriously outplayed in the second half and the first overtime (ironically I think it was about even in the second OT). So, I evaluate Calvin as simply the best team in d3 this year--and a team that is relentless as well, which is what it takes to crown the champion.
If others don't find this very convincing, I certainly understand. I'm simply explaining what I said.
Final comment: the two goals Calvin scored were the first non-PK goals surrendered by the Falcons since Misericordia scored on an own goal, when a Falcon defender hit the head of an opponent and reflected back into the goal. Even given this, neither Calvin goal came in the run of play. The last time Messiah yielded a goal in the run of play was to York on Sept 20. That's pretty darn impressive in my book. Every starting defender (including the sophomore keeper) returns next fall, so the defense ought to be even better in 2017.
Who could have predicted that you would see a list of the Elite 8 and not see any of these names.... Chicago, Messiah, Amherst and Rowan?
Congrats to Calvin. No question they earned it the hard way. Given who is left the Knights have to be considered the favorite. Even more impressive the way they have won the past two games coming from behind. F&M looked to be in good control well into the 2nd half and 10 minutes later it was Calvin 3-1.
Quote from: CovensCorner on November 19, 2016, 08:04:21 PM
In 2014, when Brandeis beat Amherst on penalties, I believe Lee Owen stepped in as goalie for the PK shootout. Is he really a PK specialist or was Bull that poor at penalties.
I think he is a PK specialist. IIRC that year he saved 3 of SLU's 5 pens in the 2nd Round, so the game before the Sweet 16 versus Brandeis, although perhaps Bull's confidence regarding PKs was shaken after losing to Bowdoin in that fashion the preceding week in the NESCAC final. Owen also saved a PK this year against Midd., a 1-1 draw, so that was clearly an influential moment in terms of that result, so I think he is quite good at PKs.
Quote from: ENYfooty on November 19, 2016, 08:20:54 PM
Did anyone watch the run vs oneonta game? Other than 15 minutes terrible defending by oneonta they completely dominated run. 12-1 in corners says it all. Prediction is run will lose to Brandeis tomorrow
As the eternal pragmatist/pessimist when it comes to my own team, I'll say that there are no easy games at this point in the season, and that I will not make a prediction regarding that game (in fact, aside from UAA games, I rarely make predictions about Brandeis matches, period). That said, I would be very OK with your prediction coming to fruition.
Classy response from Serpone (http://athletics.amherst.edu/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20161119vvsr47) in the Amherst press release after the game today. Feisty as he may be on the touchline I have never seen him be anything but classy and diplomatic in his remarks whether in victory or defeat. Also congrats to him on the birth of his third child: if I am correct this is the second time that his wife has had a child during the NCAA Tournament. ;D
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 09:31:24 PM
Classy response from Serpone (http://athletics.amherst.edu/sports/msoc/2016-17/releases/20161119vvsr47) in the Amherst press release after the game today. Feisty as he may be on the touchline I have never seen him be anything but classy and diplomatic in his remarks whether in victory or defeat. Also congrats to him on the birth of his third child: if I am correct this is the second time that his wife has had a child during the NCAA Tournament. ;D
This quote was illuminating......""
We haven't lost two games in a season since 2011 which is an amazing statistic. The standard for the program couldn't be higher and we'll work hard to keep it rolling forward."
I haven't seen RUN play, but IMO Brandeis is the best side Chicago played all season, and that is no disrespect at all to Redlands who capitalized on their opportunities. Brandeis moves on to the final four.
Lads, honestly speaking- I believe Messiah and Calvin played one of the most polished/smooth/organized/inspired/gritty matches of this 2016 season. Both squads truly embody the possession style and it was oh so easy on the eyes. I hope more coaches and teams take note of the success and positivity that comes from playing this way.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 19, 2016, 02:35:36 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 19, 2016, 02:30:57 PM
Desai hasn't played played all tournament. I believe he was suspended for two games after receiving his second red card of the year against Washington U and because of the first round bye, he was ineligible for second round and today. I think that is what happened. If someone knows different please post.
Interesting. I knew he got a red against WashU but didn't realize that it was his second of the year. ::)
First card - straight red is a two game suspension -two yellows is a one game suspension.
Very unfortunate - very questionable RC - Wash U player ducks his head to waist level while Desai attempts to kick the ball - could have (should?) have been a dangerous play against Wash U - but to give red in this situation was just poor officiating
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 20, 2016, 01:42:37 AM
Lads, honestly speaking- I believe Messiah and Calvin played one of the most polished/smooth/organized/inspired/gritty matches of this 2016 season. Both squads truly embody the possession style and it was oh so easy on the eyes. I hope more coaches and teams take note of the success and positivity that comes from playing this way.
Agreed but I'm biased. I will be pulling for Calvin to win it all as an ambassador of possession soccer at its best. Although they also have the set piece component as evidenced by 2 goals against Messiah on corner and free kick. Some of those are luck of the bounce but when you score multiple important goals off if them then it is not just luck. I think this may turn out to be the deciding factor in them going all the way. Of course all 4 teams remaining got there for a reason so any team is capable of winning it.
Quote from: rudy on November 20, 2016, 09:34:47 AM
Quote from: Wisco21 on November 20, 2016, 01:42:37 AM
Lads, honestly speaking- I believe Messiah and Calvin played one of the most polished/smooth/organized/inspired/gritty matches of this 2016 season. Both squads truly embody the possession style and it was oh so easy on the eyes. I hope more coaches and teams take note of the success and positivity that comes from playing this way.
Agreed but I'm biased. I will be pulling for Calvin to win it all as an ambassador of possession soccer at its best. Although they also have the set piece component as evidenced by 2 goals against Messiah on corner and free kick. Some of those are luck of the bounce but when you score multiple important goals off if them then it is not just luck. I think this may turn out to be the deciding factor in them going all the way. Of course all 4 teams remaining got there for a reason so any team is capable of winning it.
This Calvin team is very different from the one that got to the national finals game in 2009 and 2011. Those teams were physical and direct. The players were big, fast, strong, but less skilled. They picked up lots of fouls. I remember tuning into an NCAA tournament game once and thinking that Calvin's opponent was excessively physical. Then I realized I had the colors reversed.
Ryan Souders stresses ball control far more. He recruits more technical players. There are many fewer fouls and the style of play is much more appealing.
Not only does Calvin emphasize control, they do more one-touch passing than other teams I've seen. They can string together a half dozen of them in rapid fire through tight slots to move the ball quickly through the midfield. Sometimes I wonder if they emphasize that so much that they lose the ball more than they need to, but it works for them.
Quote from: Dark Knight on November 20, 2016, 10:59:01 AM
This Calvin team is very different from the one that got to the national finals game in 2009 and 2011. Those teams were physical and direct. The players were big, fast, strong, but less skilled. They picked up lots of fouls. I remember tuning into an NCAA tournament game once and thinking that Calvin's opponent was excessively physical. Then I realized I had the colors reversed.
Ryan Souders stresses ball control far more. He recruits more technical players. There are many fewer fouls and the style of play is much more appealing.
Not only does Calvin emphasize control, they do more one-touch passing than other teams I've seen. They can string together a half dozen of them in rapid fire through tight slots to move the ball quickly through the midfield. Sometimes I wonder if they emphasize that so much that they lose the ball more than they need to, but it works for them.
I have only watched Calvin a half-dozen times since I started following NCAA soccer in 2010. That said, I was extremely impressed with them this weekend: their one-touch passing, particularly in the second half against Messiah, was extremely impressive. Of course, given the chances the Falcons had, Messiah should've perhaps been out of sight at the end of the first half - not to say that Calvin didn't play well, Messiah was just totally dominant - but on the course of the game Calvin more than earned the win.
As I said before, I - and this is perhaps due to my lack of familiarity with the Knights - thought they were a defense-first team; this weekend has made me realize that assumption is perhaps incorrect currently, but maybe not totally off base considering you said that they used to be big, strong, and fast - traits which are usually associated with sides that emphasize defense. I would consider Calvin to be the favorites considering Chicago and Amherst are out, but as we know the tournament is full of surprises. Either way, I think that - based on what I saw - the Knights would be worthy NCAA champions.
What I love about this tournament is the ability for real surprises to happen.
We could see a final 4 that includes the #5 team in the nation without a single other ranked team.
Compare this to the women's bracket where the 'surprise' result would send the #21 team to the final 4...
Supporting Kenyon and the Tommies today - 3 Midwest teams in the final 4 would be great.
Other match is a grenade game - dislike the NJAC and their public schools of 10,000+ kids but I also want to see the UA-less final 4 streak continue.
I was at Amherst for the two games yesterday. My impression is that Brandeis is every bit as hard-working and physical a team as any NESCAC side. If they play with the same intensity today, I would be surprised if RUN will be able to cope. I was impressed by the entire Brandeis team, but especially with the left back, No. 5, Vinson. He is as good a left back as I've seen at the D-3 level.
I can't figure out how the Amherst box score attributes their goal to Ajayi. It was a clean header by Orozco into the bottom left corner off a cross from the right.
Oneonta was stage struck yesterday. Almost all of the regulars from the Final 4 team have graduated, and the current group was not prepared to play a game of that magnitude. Perhaps it will be a valuable learning experience. I was surprised that both teams, at least while I watched in the first half, played low pressure, and each team allowed the other to possess far more than Brandeis will allow RUN today. That said, RUN has some very dangerous offensive talent, especially Atubi and da Souza, both of whom seem to be able to change a game in an instant from anywhere within 30 yards of the goal. RUN's defense was never really tested while the game was still competitive, so it will be interesting to see if they can deal with Brandeis' movement.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2016, 12:18:48 PM
I was at Amherst for the two games yesterday. My impression is that Brandeis is every bit as hard-working and physical a team as any NESCAC side. If they play with the same intensity today, I would be surprised if RUN will be able to cope. I was impressed by the entire Brandeis team, but especially with the left back, No. 5, Vinson. He is as good a left back as I've seen at the D-3 level.
Having followed Brandeis since 2011, I can say that the Judges definitely have developed in terms of their ability to hold their own physically and athletically. For a while, they were a good, solid technical team, but didn't really have the steel to cope with the pressure of NESCAC sides - Williams beat them two years in a row in the Sweet 16 - 2012 and 2013 - Tufts beat them in a regular-season contest in 2013. However, the next year saw a major change with the arrivals of Ocel and Hernandez and the development of Lanahan into an All-American CB, and that change became evident as that year Brandeis beat Tufts 2-0 in the regular season, Bowdoin 1-0 in the NCAA 2nd Round, and Amherst on PKs in the Sweet 16. Since then, they've only fallen once to a NESCAC foe - Tufts this year - while beating the Jumbos last year and defeating Amherst on PKs yesterday, so an improvement from 0 wins and 3 losses to 3 wins, 2 shootout victories, and only 1 defeat. While Brandeis did well in 12-13 and 13-14, the physical and athletic deficiencies were recognized by the coaches, and it's quite clear that they were addressed.
Vinson is a very good LB, and perhaps one of the reasons that he stood out is that he is a Division I transfer from Loyola - Chicago. He was recognized as being very good upon arrival but I don't think he had much "game time," as I believe he played a little bit last season but not much. Either way, he didn't play a ton in the first half of the season, but has started every game since WashU, when he also got the winner, and the Judges have only lost once during that stretch. I maintain that Vinson getting a consistent run of games and establishing himself as the first-choice LB has been a big reason that Brandeis has tightened up defensively.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 12:33:05 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2016, 12:18:48 PM
I was at Amherst for the two games yesterday. My impression is that Brandeis is every bit as hard-working and physical a team as any NESCAC side. If they play with the same intensity today, I would be surprised if RUN will be able to cope. I was impressed by the entire Brandeis team, but especially with the left back, No. 5, Vinson. He is as good a left back as I've seen at the D-3 level.
Having followed Brandeis since 2011, I can say that the Judges definitely have developed in terms of their ability to hold their own physically and athletically. For a while, they were a good, solid technical team, but didn't really have the steel to cope with the pressure of NESCAC sides - Williams beat them two years in a row in the Sweet 16 - 2012 and 2013 - Tufts beat them in a regular-season contest in 2013. However, the next year saw a major change with the arrivals of Ocel and Hernandez and the development of Lanahan into an All-American CB, and that change became evident as that year Brandeis beat Tufts 2-0 in the regular season, Bowdoin 1-0 in the NCAA 2nd Round, and Amherst on PKs in the Sweet 16. Since then, they've only fallen once to a NESCAC foe - Tufts this year - while beating the Jumbos last year and defeating Amherst on PKs yesterday, so an improvement from 0 wins and 3 losses to 3 wins, 2 shootout victories, and only 1 defeat. While Brandeis did well in 12-13 and 13-14, the physical and athletic deficiencies were recognized by the coaches, and it's quite clear that they were addressed.
Vinson is a very good LB, and perhaps one of the reasons that he stood out is that he is a Division I transfer from Loyola - Chicago. He was recognized as being very good upon arrival but I don't think he had much "game time," as I believe he played a little bit last season but not much. Either way, he didn't play a ton in the first half of the season, but has started every game since WashU, when he also got the winner, and the Judges have only lost once during that stretch. I maintain that Vinson getting a consistent run of games and establishing himself as the first-choice LB has been a big reason that Brandeis has tightened up defensively.
It seems to be a prevalent theme that some of the best D-3 sides have D-1 transfers. Ciambella, arguably Amherst's best player, is a transfer from Creighton.
It seems to be a prevalent theme that some of the best D-3 sides have D-1 transfers. Ciambella, arguably Amherst's best player, is a transfer from Creighton.
[/quote]
St Thomas also has number of D1 transfers on the roster.
It sure is nice to watch and talk about good quality soccer instead of spending the last week talking about red cards, head butts, ref abuse etc. Congrats to Calvin and good luck to the remaining sides.
Whether by design or by coincidence Brandeis has had much more of the ball than RUN. I don't think that RUN is parking the bus, per se, but I think they realize the best possibilities will come from using their pace on the counter, as they do have some quick players.
Elsewhere I thought Tufts was shading it against Kenyon but the Lords are growing into the match. Still anyone's game.
Brandeis lets the ball bounce in the box on a corner and RUN gets a shot off. Thankfully for the Judges Woodhouse gets to it.
One-nil Brandeis, Lynch puts it home around halfway through the first half.
59 seconds later, Lynch again! 2-0 Judges.
Wow - that was quick. Will be interesting to see how RUN responds now down 2.
I cannot believe how poor RUN looks compared to the way they look on their home turf..It is like watching 2 different teams...Really disappointing showing so far on the grass which I thought might happen but not this dramatic....
Meanwhile Kenyon and Tufts will be in another 1 goal battle for sure but Tufts has the wind at their back 1st Half and really need to try to get a goal before goin into the wind because the wind is not going to change today.
RUN pulls one back for 2-1 in the 41st.
2-1 Brandeis at the half. Did not see the RUN goal, was away from the computer, but while conceding in the last 5 minutes of a half isn't preferable, the Judges still go into the half a goal to the good.
0-0 between Tufts and Kenyon. Jumbos probably just shading it but a very even game and they had the wind in the first half. Winds are forecasted to stay consistently west and Kenyon will have it in the second. Hope that we see some goals.
I'm watching tufts and Kenyon. Not very pretty soccer. Lots of kicking the ball to nobody. Although maybe it looks worse because of bad camera angle?? Anyone at the game have different perspective?
Tufts 0
Kenyon 0
Halftime
Not a lot of offense in this game so far.
Artificial turf and high winds are a terrible mix for soccer. Video stream is a bit difficult with a low camera angle and the camera seems to frequently be behind the play (perhaps to do the extremely fast playing conditions).
Surprised that Tufts has not, with the wind at their backs, shown the possession style that folks credit them for.
Kenyon more in control of the middle third even fighting the wind.
It'll be interesting to see if Kenyon is able to corral the wind's advantage in the second half.
Greenwood will have to remain on high alert on any high balls served into the box.
Agree about the video. Too close to the field and the camera operator is too fixated on the close-up angle. Not convinced it's the speed of play. Rather inexperience. If someone's at the game, ask the camera person to forget about the close-ups and show as much of the play as possible. Thanks!
Woooooooooh. Big let-off for the Judges. RUN player got through the middle, all alone, rounded the 'keeper, but the kid took a bad touch and thankfully for 'Deis a defender was there to clean up the mess. Brandeis has to be careful because if RUN gets another in the first five minutes of the half Brandeis could be in trouble.
RUN is certainly growing into the game in the second half, albeit that one break aside it doesn't seem that they have created much.
Tufts' Zach Halliday just misses left wide left. Clougher would have been disadvantaged if it had been on target as it came through the screen.
First chance to watch this weekend. Both games fairly even.
Tufts is playing much better against the wind, perhaps because it's forcing them to keep the ball on the floor. Kenyon a bit lucky to remain level, as the Jumbos just missed an absolute sitter from 12 yards out.
3-1 Brandeis with 24 left. Handler finishes the free kick from Ocel.
Brandies with the dagger
Tufts playing better 2nd Half but Tufts LB McMillian is such a disaster back there...No skill, whakcs everything and gets beat 1v1..not sure what Shapiro sees in him but he could well cost Tufts the game...
what's going on with the sidelines
Can't quite tell what is happening but it appears that the RUN coach got a red?
Rojas with a nice, right-footed outside-of-the-boot effort that goes just wide right.
4-1 Brandeis! I missed it. >:( But 4-1! ;D
RUN implodes
Tufts announcers aren't lighting the world on fire but I agree the ref needs to flash a card or two. If someone goes behind, tempers (which are already on edge) are going to get out of control.
Tufts has been the stronger team in the second half, but has only carved out a few good chances. Kenyon has been able to survive while resting its big guns for a substantial period of time. That could pay dividends in overtime if Amolo and co. have more left in the tank.
RUN gets one back to 4-2 on a PK with around 10 left.
Agree that Tufts looked better second half. Better than they did first half and better than Kenyon.
Kenyon did not take advantage of the wind and played with no urgency whatsoever.
Also, it's official: turf sucks.
Stopped watching when Brandeis went up, 3-1, on a controversial restart.
RUN had taken control of the game in the second half up until that point. Looked like it was going to be an exciting contest. Then the balloon popped. Went from watching two games to just the Tufts/Kenyon match after that.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 02:49:11 PM
RUN gets one back to 4-2 on a PK with around 10 left.
I was watching the Tufts game, but the RUN red card after the third Brandeis goal couldn't have helped the RUN cause. Kudos to the Judges and what a great way for Coach Coven to go out (if, in fact, he is retiring).
Brandeis into its first Final 4 since 1984. This is the same team that lost 5-4 to home against Wheaton? WOW!
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 20, 2016, 03:02:21 PM
I was watching the Tufts game, but the RUN red card after the third Brandeis goal couldn't have helped the RUN cause. Kudos to the Judges and what a great way for Coach Coven to go out (if, in fact, he is retiring).
I think it was the coach who got the red, but didn't exactly see how it happened or what did in fact happen.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2016, 03:01:44 PM
Stopped watching when Brandeis went up, 3-1, on a controversial restart.
RUN had taken control of the game in the second half up until that point. Looked like it was going to be an exciting contest. Then the balloon popped. Went from watching two games to just the Tufts/Kenyon match after that.
Certainly RUN had cranked up the pressure in the second and was knocking on the door. But then two goals in quick succession was the dagger.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 20, 2016, 02:31:30 PM
Tufts playing better 2nd Half but Tufts LB McMillian is such a disaster back there...No skill, whakcs everything and gets beat 1v1..not sure what Shapiro sees in him but he could well cost Tufts the game...
I was standing near a group of the Tufts players during the K/T match yesterday, and the way he was running his mouth you'd think he's been a 3-time 1st team AA....
Wow. Not directly related to MSOC action but the Brandeis women were down 2-0 with 16 left, got one back 30 seconds later to make it 2-1, scored two in a minute to lead 3-2, gave up the equalizer with 3 seconds left, and then won it two minutes into OT. Both Judges teams headed to the Final 4, the women for the first time.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2016, 02:59:35 PM
Agree that Tufts looked better second half. Better than they did first half and better than Kenyon.
Kenyon did not take advantage of the wind and played with no urgency whatsoever.
Also, it's official: turf sucks.
It's a shame, too, as Tufts has a nice grass field just up the road going to waste.
Didn't the NCAA once upon a time give hosting preference to teams with grass?
Wow. Good for Brandeis.
Jumbos win it in the 109th. What a dramatic way for Majumder to mark his return from injury (even if he's been back for a while). Happy for the Jumbos and Shapiro but that is heartbreaking for Kenyon.
NESCAC back in the final four!
Outside of the New England bubble, Redlands (Tufts' Final 4 opponent) is 2-0 up on St. Thomas with around 25 minutes left. Based on what I saw this weekend I think Redlands would pose a tougher test than St. Thomas, but who knows. Still time left!
Tufts scores on a long throw with 1 minute left in 2OT. Brutal turn for Kenyon, who won game after game on long throws, corners, and set pieces. Live by them, die by them I guess.
Some Kenyon players seemed upset about something on it, but it looked straightforward. Long throw, flicked on, and Majumder prodded it home. Only thing was maybe offsides? But I couldn't see anything. I'm sure someone who was there live could elaborate.
Tufts was the better team, by a small margin. The wind really killed the game - anything in the air immediately died (if against the wind) or carried much too far (if with it). Tufts created a little more from open play and should have scored twice before overtime. Kenyon had one great opportunity early in the second half but Greenwood made a really good save after Amolo sprang someone behind. Aside from that, Kenyon wasn't able to create anything from the run of play.
Going in we all figured the NESCAC and UAA would each get a team to the Final Four. Just didn't think it'd be Tufts and Brandeis. Weird sport we follow.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on November 20, 2016, 03:31:52 PM
Some Kenyon players seemed upset about something on it, but it looked straightforward. Long throw, flicked on, and Majumder prodded it home. Only thing was maybe offsides? But I couldn't see anything. I'm sure someone who was there live could elaborate.
I wasn't there, but my impression after a glance at the replay was that Majumder was not offside and that Clougher was screened by his own defender.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 03:04:18 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 20, 2016, 03:02:21 PM
I was watching the Tufts game, but the RUN red card after the third Brandeis goal couldn't have helped the RUN cause. Kudos to the Judges and what a great way for Coach Coven to go out (if, in fact, he is retiring).
I think it was the coach who got the red, but didn't exactly see how it happened or what did in fact happen.
Yes, it was one of the RUN coaches who got the red card. It was for dissent. RUN was upset because there was a several second delay after a scrum that resulted in a Brandeis free kick (which Brandeis subsequently converted for their third goal). Apparently, the officials conferred and ruled that the free kick should be for Brandeis. The RUN coaches obviously disagreed. The red card was given after the goal was scored.
Tommies come from 2 goals down to tie with 11 left on a PK! Redlands player was judged to have saved a goal with his arm and was shown a red card. 11 v. 10 now.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 20, 2016, 03:39:36 PM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on November 20, 2016, 03:31:52 PM
Some Kenyon players seemed upset about something on it, but it looked straightforward. Long throw, flicked on, and Majumder prodded it home. Only thing was maybe offsides? But I couldn't see anything. I'm sure someone who was there live could elaborate.
I wasn't there, but my impression after a glance at the replay was that Majumder was not offside and that Clougher was screened by his own defender.
Did the Kenyon players think there was a foul either on the skimmed on header to Majumder or on Majumder's collision with the goalie and defender?
St Thomas will be the cinderella story
Tony Kuplic may just be THE story of the tournament. Another 2 goals today to aid in UST's comeback from a 2-0 deficit, including a tremendous strike to win the game in OT!
Tommies heading into final four with perhaps a feeling of destiny/belief after coming from behind twice in the weekend to advance. Guts ball.
Pretty wild to think that Brandeis and Tufts are in the Final 4. Both teams would have been considered outside shots for an at-large bid, perhaps Brandeis moreso than Tufts. Despite their superior ranking in the final RRs Brandeis only had one real big win this year, against Haverford, while Tufts beat Brandeis, Amherst, and Midd. Regardless, both teams' NCAA fates were far from certain, so considering both teams seemed out of contention for NCAA bids it's pretty amazing to think they're in the Final 4.
Aside from Bowdoin (a significant chunk of my family went there), Tufts is my favorite NESCAC side. I think they play the game the right way and Shapiro is a class act. What Tufts lacks in talent - I don't think there's any debate that the team of Williams, Kayne, Hoppenot, and Santos was more talented than this year's squad - they make up for in heart and fight. Greenwood has improved a lot and looked better than I've ever seen him on high balls this weekend, so I tip my hat to him. Sullivan and Coleman held firm in numerous high-pressure situations, and while Becherano carried the team when Majumder was out, it's been great to see Majumder come back to being his old self and making the difference in the tournament. Can they win the national title? Of the four teams (congrats to St. Thomas btw on your epic comeback!) I personally think Calvin is the favorite, but I wouldn't put it past the Jumbos. They might not be the surprise package of two years ago, and you can bet their opponents will have scouted them, but they have the tools and the invaluable experience.
Regarding Brandeis, I'm still in shock. Unlike many who optimistically pick their team to win regardless of the opposition (and there are some of you out there ;) ), I am too much of a skeptic to ever feel completely confident in a result. With that said, I thought that the Brandeis team of two years ago was by far the best that I'd seen in my time, and would be Brandeis' only chance at a Final 4 for quite some time. Last year the guys made it to the Sweet 16 and were generally solid but this year I didn't think that Brandeis would make the NCAA Tournament, let alone the Final 4, so this has been a remarkable season for Coven and his boys regardless of what happens in Virginia and regardless of whether he is indeed retiring as has been rumored (although you can bet that the team will be fired up for the occasion and think it has as good of a chance as any).
As for me, I might not be on here much in the near future, if at all. The next two weeks will be pretty busy for me, as I'm wrapping things up at my current job and starting a new one, plus traveling for the holidays. In fact, watching both the Brandeis men and women in their Final 4 matches may be a bridge too far, as I'll be starting my new job, but I'll do my best to tune in. The good news is that you all will likely get a break from my incessant posting. ;) As for potential matchups, I would obviously have to pick a side in a potential Brandeis-Tufts final, but the Jumbos would be worthy champions - actually, all of the sides would be worthy champions, because you can't fake your way to the Final 4.
Anyway, if I'm not on before or during the tourney, thanks all to you for enlightening, engaging discussion all season, and I look forward to enjoying a competitive, exciting, and clean (emphasis on the last part) tournament. Roll Deis!
Bloots, best wishes on your new venture. Something tells me you just might not be able to stay away altogether. This stuff is addictive. Happy Thanksgiving.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2016, 04:27:17 PM
Bloots, best wishes on your new venture. Something tells me you just might not be able to stay away altogether. This stuff is addictive. Happy Thanksgiving.
Thank you, happy Thanksgiving to you as well! And I think I will, I just wanted to clarify that I am still alive and well if I do drop off the face of the...uh...boards.
I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.
Quote from: 4samuy on November 20, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.
I think it's relevant enough! Still think Messiah is the favorite on the women's side, but as we've come to know (e.g. Tufts in 2014) the favorite tag doesn't win you championships.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 04:23:22 PM
Pretty wild to think that Brandeis and Tufts are in the Final 4. Both teams would have been considered outside shots for an at-large bid, perhaps Brandeis moreso than Tufts. Despite their superior ranking in the final RRs Brandeis only had one real big win this year, against Haverford, while Tufts beat Brandeis, Amherst, and Midd. Regardless, both teams' NCAA fates were far from certain, so considering both teams seemed out of contention for NCAA bids it's pretty amazing to think they're in the Final 4.
Aside from Bowdoin (a significant chunk of my family went there), Tufts is my favorite NESCAC side. I think they play the game the right way and Shapiro is a class act. What Tufts lacks in talent - I don't think there's any debate that the team of Williams, Kayne, Hoppenot, and Santos was more talented than this year's squad - they make up for in heart and fight. Greenwood has improved a lot and looked better than I've ever seen him on high balls this weekend, so I tip my hat to him. Sullivan and Coleman held firm in numerous high-pressure situations, and while Becherano carried the team when Majumder was out, it's been great to see Majumder come back to being his old self and making the difference in the tournament. Can they win the national title? Of the four teams (congrats to St. Thomas btw on your epic comeback!) I personally think Calvin is the favorite, but I wouldn't put it past the Jumbos. They might not be the surprise package of two years ago, and you can bet their opponents will have scouted them, but they have the tools and the invaluable experience.
Regarding Brandeis, I'm still in shock. Unlike many who optimistically pick their team to win regardless of the opposition (and there are some of you out there ;) ), I am too much of a skeptic to ever feel completely confident in a result. With that said, I thought that the Brandeis team of two years ago was by far the best that I'd seen in my time, and would be Brandeis' only chance at a Final 4 for quite some time. Last year the guys made it to the Sweet 16 and were generally solid but this year I didn't think that Brandeis would make the NCAA Tournament, let alone the Final 4, so this has been a remarkable season for Coven and his boys regardless of what happens in Virginia and regardless of whether he is indeed retiring as has been rumored (although you can bet that the team will be fired up for the occasion and think it has as good of a chance as any).
As for me, I might not be on here much in the near future, if at all. The next two weeks will be pretty busy for me, as I'm wrapping things up at my current job and starting a new one, plus traveling for the holidays. In fact, watching both the Brandeis men and women in their Final 4 matches may be a bridge too far, as I'll be starting my new job, but I'll do my best to tune in. The good news is that you all will likely get a break from my incessant posting. ;) As for potential matchups, I would obviously have to pick a side in a potential Brandeis-Tufts final, but the Jumbos would be worthy champions - actually, all of the sides would be worthy champions, because you can't fake your way to the Final 4.
Anyway, if I'm not on before or during the tourney, thanks all to you for enlightening, engaging discussion all season, and I look forward to enjoying a competitive, exciting, and clean (emphasis on the last part) tournament. Roll Deis!
Bloots, great analysis as usual! Will miss your posts.
The Jumbos won today because they were definitely the better team, especially against the wind. Yes, Halliday missed an open netter but the Jumbos held strong and get the revenge heartbreaking win against the lords. Halliday has been the glue. Greenwood made a great save also. It's like the Jumbos had 2 different strategies....credit to Shapiro for a fine coaching job.
Well, that was pure devastation.
Don't know what happened on the final play. Looked like the Kenyon players expected a foul to be called maybe on the initial header or maybe on Majumder getting to ball. Clougher seemed convinced something should have been called, but after talking to the refs shook all of their hands and then went around shaking hands with and hugging Tufts players. A class kid who will be sorely missed.
A very interesting game live that maybe didn't come through on video. The wind was a huge factor obviously. I felt extremely confident when Kenyon survived the first half going into the wind and maybe even had the better of the play. I was sure that was a good sign for the Lords and that they would create a lot more good chances and score in the 2nd half. Instead, Tufts actually had the better of the play the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half which was hard to figure although that was a period when the wind calmed down and then picked up again later. Kenyon got a break going into the wind in the 1st OT, and then it looked like we were definitely heading to PKs. Kenyon gave up a corner which they survived but that led to a long throw. BTW, deep throws are becoming such a weapon for many teams that perhaps they should be considered a stat like corners and shots. A tie would have been a fair result, but that is how OT periods go with a stunning end where not everyone is sure what happened. I see Kenyon outshot Tufts but had less corners. Jeon had a clean chance very similar to a breakaway chance last year against Calvin and Greenwood made a good play. Koval had a chance right around the six late in the 2nd OT about a minute before Tufts scored that he hit just wide. I should add that Jeon played great both days and gave everything he had, as did almost all of the Lords players. Could not be prouder of them.
I feel awful for the seniors (and Coach Brown) for not getting to a Final Four. They deserved at least one out of those 4 years and probably 2 and got none. Congrats to Tufts. A sweet victory for them for sure. They are a tough group. We talk about their possession but they are gritty and physical and HUGE. They outfouled Kenyon by a good margin in what at times was a chippy game, but after Tufts got through their immediate celebration there seemed to be a sense of mutual respect and players from both teams were hugging each other (except for the Kenyon players still in shock and disconsolate and on the ground). Both teams played their hearts out. Other than Tufts probably feeling more comfortable playing at home, I don't think that played a major role. Kenyon had an excellent turnout and from that point of view the game almost felt like it was at a neutral site.
Shapiro made some interesting moves. He started his 6'5 frosh up top and didn't start Becherano or Majumder. Seemed like he tried that for 10 minutes to see if they could get an early goal with the wind and a height advantage. Kenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5. Shapiro must recruit for size and Tufts matched or exceeded Kenyon on depth today, or put another way, when Kenyon subbed they got smaller whereas Tufts got bigger. Myers and Lowry (6'1 and 6'0) almost never lose headers and Tufts won some. Don't know if that is relevant to the last play or not.
Devastated but in a strange way content. Kenyon put in a stellar performance against Trinity and fought tooth and nail with Tufts today in a game that easily could have gone either way and/or been decided in PKs. Tufts now has an excellent chance to get to the final, and if they get to the final (against either Calvin or Brandeis) I would expect a game very similar to the one today but hopefully with better conditions.
Quote from: Nutmeg on November 20, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 04:23:22 PM
Pretty wild to think that Brandeis and Tufts are in the Final 4. Both teams would have been considered outside shots for an at-large bid, perhaps Brandeis moreso than Tufts. Despite their superior ranking in the final RRs Brandeis only had one real big win this year, against Haverford, while Tufts beat Brandeis, Amherst, and Midd. Regardless, both teams' NCAA fates were far from certain, so considering both teams seemed out of contention for NCAA bids it's pretty amazing to think they're in the Final 4.
Aside from Bowdoin (a significant chunk of my family went there), Tufts is my favorite NESCAC side. I think they play the game the right way and Shapiro is a class act. What Tufts lacks in talent - I don't think there's any debate that the team of Williams, Kayne, Hoppenot, and Santos was more talented than this year's squad - they make up for in heart and fight. Greenwood has improved a lot and looked better than I've ever seen him on high balls this weekend, so I tip my hat to him. Sullivan and Coleman held firm in numerous high-pressure situations, and while Becherano carried the team when Majumder was out, it's been great to see Majumder come back to being his old self and making the difference in the tournament. Can they win the national title? Of the four teams (congrats to St. Thomas btw on your epic comeback!) I personally think Calvin is the favorite, but I wouldn't put it past the Jumbos. They might not be the surprise package of two years ago, and you can bet their opponents will have scouted them, but they have the tools and the invaluable experience.
Regarding Brandeis, I'm still in shock. Unlike many who optimistically pick their team to win regardless of the opposition (and there are some of you out there ;) ), I am too much of a skeptic to ever feel completely confident in a result. With that said, I thought that the Brandeis team of two years ago was by far the best that I'd seen in my time, and would be Brandeis' only chance at a Final 4 for quite some time. Last year the guys made it to the Sweet 16 and were generally solid but this year I didn't think that Brandeis would make the NCAA Tournament, let alone the Final 4, so this has been a remarkable season for Coven and his boys regardless of what happens in Virginia and regardless of whether he is indeed retiring as has been rumored (although you can bet that the team will be fired up for the occasion and think it has as good of a chance as any).
As for me, I might not be on here much in the near future, if at all. The next two weeks will be pretty busy for me, as I'm wrapping things up at my current job and starting a new one, plus traveling for the holidays. In fact, watching both the Brandeis men and women in their Final 4 matches may be a bridge too far, as I'll be starting my new job, but I'll do my best to tune in. The good news is that you all will likely get a break from my incessant posting. ;) As for potential matchups, I would obviously have to pick a side in a potential Brandeis-Tufts final, but the Jumbos would be worthy champions - actually, all of the sides would be worthy champions, because you can't fake your way to the Final 4.
Anyway, if I'm not on before or during the tourney, thanks all to you for enlightening, engaging discussion all season, and I look forward to enjoying a competitive, exciting, and clean (emphasis on the last part) tournament. Roll Deis!
Bloomer great analysis as usual! Will miss your posts.
The Jumbos won today because they were definitely the better team, especially against the wind. Yes, Halliday missed an open netter but the Jumbos held strong and get the revenge heartbreaking win against the lords. Halliday has been the glue. Greenwood made a great save also. It's like the Jumbos had 2 different strategies....credit to Shapiro for a fine coaching job.
Well, thank you, Mr. Kayne. Regards to your other screen name too. And congrats on the well-earned revenge. Not sure a goal off a loose ball play in the 109th minute equates to "definitely better team." I'm guessing Shapiro will express that a bit more generously, being the class guy that he is.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 20, 2016, 05:18:13 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on November 20, 2016, 05:11:36 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 04:23:22 PM
Pretty wild to think that Brandeis and Tufts are in the Final 4. Both teams would have been considered outside shots for an at-large bid, perhaps Brandeis moreso than Tufts. Despite their superior ranking in the final RRs Brandeis only had one real big win this year, against Haverford, while Tufts beat Brandeis, Amherst, and Midd. Regardless, both teams' NCAA fates were far from certain, so considering both teams seemed out of contention for NCAA bids it's pretty amazing to think they're in the Final 4.
Aside from Bowdoin (a significant chunk of my family went there), Tufts is my favorite NESCAC side. I think they play the game the right way and Shapiro is a class act. What Tufts lacks in talent - I don't think there's any debate that the team of Williams, Kayne, Hoppenot, and Santos was more talented than this year's squad - they make up for in heart and fight. Greenwood has improved a lot and looked better than I've ever seen him on high balls this weekend, so I tip my hat to him. Sullivan and Coleman held firm in numerous high-pressure situations, and while Becherano carried the team when Majumder was out, it's been great to see Majumder come back to being his old self and making the difference in the tournament. Can they win the national title? Of the four teams (congrats to St. Thomas btw on your epic comeback!) I personally think Calvin is the favorite, but I wouldn't put it past the Jumbos. They might not be the surprise package of two years ago, and you can bet their opponents will have scouted them, but they have the tools and the invaluable experience.
Regarding Brandeis, I'm still in shock. Unlike many who optimistically pick their team to win regardless of the opposition (and there are some of you out there ;) ), I am too much of a skeptic to ever feel completely confident in a result. With that said, I thought that the Brandeis team of two years ago was by far the best that I'd seen in my time, and would be Brandeis' only chance at a Final 4 for quite some time. Last year the guys made it to the Sweet 16 and were generally solid but this year I didn't think that Brandeis would make the NCAA Tournament, let alone the Final 4, so this has been a remarkable season for Coven and his boys regardless of what happens in Virginia and regardless of whether he is indeed retiring as has been rumored (although you can bet that the team will be fired up for the occasion and think it has as good of a chance as any).
As for me, I might not be on here much in the near future, if at all. The next two weeks will be pretty busy for me, as I'm wrapping things up at my current job and starting a new one, plus traveling for the holidays. In fact, watching both the Brandeis men and women in their Final 4 matches may be a bridge too far, as I'll be starting my new job, but I'll do my best to tune in. The good news is that you all will likely get a break from my incessant posting. ;) As for potential matchups, I would obviously have to pick a side in a potential Brandeis-Tufts final, but the Jumbos would be worthy champions - actually, all of the sides would be worthy champions, because you can't fake your way to the Final 4.
Anyway, if I'm not on before or during the tourney, thanks all to you for enlightening, engaging discussion all season, and I look forward to enjoying a competitive, exciting, and clean (emphasis on the last part) tournament. Roll Deis!
Bloomer great analysis as usual! Will miss your posts.
The Jumbos won today because they were definitely the better team, especially against the wind. Yes, Halliday missed an open netter but the Jumbos held strong and get the revenge heartbreaking win against the lords. Halliday has been the glue. Greenwood made a great save also. It's like the Jumbos had 2 different strategies....credit to Shapiro for a fine coaching job.
Well, thank you, Mr. Kayne. Regards to your other screen name too. And congrats on the well-earned revenge. Not sure a goal off a loose ball play in the 109th minute equates to "definitely better team." I'm guessing Shapiro will express that a bit more generously, being the class guy that he is.
Look, u make lots of explanations and insinuations, and have bashed the NESCAC in past years, and the student bodies. That's okay. I make a statement that Tufts was the better team, especially against the wind...which others have stated, and u make personal attacks. That's okay and u can think what you want. I feel bad for the Kenyon players. They played har, like Tufts last year, but it wasn't in their cards. Call me whomever u want or think. Congrats to Kenyon, and good luck Jumbos...
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on November 20, 2016, 03:31:52 PM
Tufts scores on a long throw with 1 minute left in 2OT. Brutal turn for Kenyon, who won game after game on long throws, corners, and set pieces. Live by them, die by them I guess.
Some Kenyon players seemed upset about something on it, but it looked straightforward. Long throw, flicked on, and Majumder prodded it home. Only thing was maybe offsides? But I couldn't see anything. I'm sure someone who was there live could elaborate.
Tufts was the better team, by a small margin. The wind really killed the game - anything in the air immediately died (if against the wind) or carried much too far (if with it). Tufts created a little more from open play and should have scored twice before overtime. Kenyon had one great opportunity early in the second half but Greenwood made a really good save after Amolo sprang someone behind. Aside from that, Kenyon wasn't able to create anything from the run of play.
Going in we all figured the NESCAC and UAA would each get a team to the Final Four. Just didn't think it'd be Tufts and Brandeis. Weird sport we follow.
Yep, weird sport for sure. Congrats to the Judges and Jumbos....
Personal attacks? Do you have two screen names or not?
Tufts and Kenyon are both great schools with great kids. Nothing else to say there. Like I said, I think there is a mutual respect.
I watched the end again several times on video. Kenyon was pressuring in the Tufts end from 2:30 or down to 2:00 when Koval missed wide just to the right of the six. Greenwood goal kick, Tufts possessed a little, Kenyon stole ball and had time for a full clear but instead ball sputtered back to Tufts, and then another chance for a clear and that's when ball went out for a pretty deep throw.
After watching the replay 4-5 times themselves Tufts announcers still weren't sure what happened. After several look myself looks like Eichhorst got off a clean backwards nod header that fell in front of Majumder and Lowry, Clougher came out while Majumder got a bit of touch and ball rolls in net. Clougher would have gotten it if had not come out as the 3-way collision with Lowry, Majumder and Clougher created the chance.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 20, 2016, 05:48:42 PM
Personal attacks? Do you have two screen names or not?
Tufts and Kenyon are both great schools with great kids. Nothing else to say there. Like I said, I think there is a mutual respect.
I watched the end again several times on video. Kenyon was pressuring in the Tufts end from 2:30 or down to 2:00 when Koval missed wide just to the right of the six. Greenwood goal kick, Tufts possessed a little, Kenyon stole ball and had time for a full clear but instead ball sputtered back to Tufts, and then another chance for a clear and that's when ball went out for a pretty deep throw.
After watching the replay 4-5 times themselves Tufts announcers still weren't sure what happened. After several look myself looks like Eichhorst got off a clean backwards nod header that fell in front of Majumder and Lowry, Clougher came out while Majumder got a bit of touch and ball rolls in net. Clougher would have gotten it if had not come out as the 3-way collision with Lowry, Majumder and Clougher created the chance.
Quote from: Nutmeg on November 20, 2016, 05:52:14 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 20, 2016, 05:48:42 PM
Personal attacks? Do you have two screen names or not?
Tufts and Kenyon are both great schools with great kids. Nothing else to say there. Like I said, I think there is a mutual respect.
I watched the end again several times on video. Kenyon was pressuring in the Tufts end from 2:30 or down to 2:00 when Koval missed wide just to the right of the six. Greenwood goal kick, Tufts possessed a little, Kenyon stole ball and had time for a full clear but instead ball sputtered back to Tufts, and then another chance for a clear and that's when ball went out for a pretty deep throw.
After watching the replay 4-5 times themselves Tufts announcers still weren't sure what happened. After several look myself looks like Eichhorst got off a clean backwards nod header that fell in front of Majumder and Lowry, Clougher came out while Majumder got a bit of touch and ball rolls in net. Clougher would have gotten it if had not come out as the 3-way collision with Lowry, Majumder and Clougher created the chance.
Both are great schools and great teams.....it's unfortunate one has to go home.... and, unfortunately only one team is happy at the end of the tourney.
I have been really impressed by Calvin. They look like they have what it takes to finally break through and win it all after 2 second place finishes.
Quote from: 4samuy on November 20, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.
Impressive, and I wonder when the last time a conference had 3 members advance to the final 4 (Men's or Women's). Also, does Brandeis making the final 4 buy the oft criticized UAA a few months of reprieve? ;)
NCAC, so spot on in many regards.
Bloots, for what it's worth, after seeing them in person (and I've seen them in person now four years in a row), I thought this was the most well-rounded team Brandeis has had . . .
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2016, 04:23:22 PM
Pretty wild to think that Brandeis and Tufts are in the Final 4. Both teams would have been considered outside shots for an at-large bid, perhaps Brandeis moreso than Tufts. Despite their superior ranking in the final RRs Brandeis only had one real big win this year, against Haverford, while Tufts beat Brandeis, Amherst, and Midd. Regardless, both teams' NCAA fates were far from certain, so considering both teams seemed out of contention for NCAA bids it's pretty amazing to think they're in the Final 4.
Aside from Bowdoin (a significant chunk of my family went there), Tufts is my favorite NESCAC side. I think they play the game the right way and Shapiro is a class act. What Tufts lacks in talent - I don't think there's any debate that the team of Williams, Kayne, Hoppenot, and Santos was more talented than this year's squad - they make up for in heart and fight. Greenwood has improved a lot and looked better than I've ever seen him on high balls this weekend, so I tip my hat to him. Sullivan and Coleman held firm in numerous high-pressure situations, and while Becherano carried the team when Majumder was out, it's been great to see Majumder come back to being his old self and making the difference in the tournament. Can they win the national title? Of the four teams (congrats to St. Thomas btw on your epic comeback!) I personally think Calvin is the favorite, but I wouldn't put it past the Jumbos. They might not be the surprise package of two years ago, and you can bet their opponents will have scouted them, but they have the tools and the invaluable experience.
Regarding Brandeis, I'm still in shock. Unlike many who optimistically pick their team to win regardless of the opposition (and there are some of you out there ;) ), I am too much of a skeptic to ever feel completely confident in a result. With that said, I thought that the Brandeis team of two years ago was by far the best that I'd seen in my time, and would be Brandeis' only chance at a Final 4 for quite some time. Last year the guys made it to the Sweet 16 and were generally solid but this year I didn't think that Brandeis would make the NCAA Tournament, let alone the Final 4, so this has been a remarkable season for Coven and his boys regardless of what happens in Virginia and regardless of whether he is indeed retiring as has been rumored (although you can bet that the team will be fired up for the occasion and think it has as good of a chance as any).
As for me, I might not be on here much in the near future, if at all. The next two weeks will be pretty busy for me, as I'm wrapping things up at my current job and starting a new one, plus traveling for the holidays. In fact, watching both the Brandeis men and women in their Final 4 matches may be a bridge too far, as I'll be starting my new job, but I'll do my best to tune in. The good news is that you all will likely get a break from my incessant posting. ;) As for potential matchups, I would obviously have to pick a side in a potential Brandeis-Tufts final, but the Jumbos would be worthy champions - actually, all of the sides would be worthy champions, because you can't fake your way to the Final 4.
Anyway, if I'm not on before or during the tourney, thanks all to you for enlightening, engaging discussion all season, and I look forward to enjoying a competitive, exciting, and clean (emphasis on the last part) tournament. Roll Deis!
Always found your posts excellent, best in your new job!!
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 20, 2016, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 20, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.
Impressive, and I wonder when the last time a conference had 3 members advance to the final 4 (Men's or Women's). Also, does Brandeis making the final 4 buy the oft criticized UAA a few months of reprieve? ;)
Brandeis has been excellent the past few years. They have just as good of chance of anyone to win the hardware. Very impressive on the woman's side...
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 20, 2016, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 20, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.
Impressive, and I wonder when the last time a conference had 3 members advance to the final 4 (Men's or Women's). Also, does Brandeis making the final 4 buy the oft criticized UAA a few months of reprieve? ;)
2012 Messiah Men and Women MAC (Commonwealth) and Misericordia MAC (Freedom)
I believe NCsoccerfan was referring to 3 sides in the same final four. This year UAA women have 3 on the women's side(Brandeis,washu and chicago). UAA also advanced Brandeis on the men's side.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 20, 2016, 04:11:44 PM
St Thomas will be the cinderella story
Quote from: gustiefan04 on November 20, 2016, 04:13:36 PM
Tony Kuplic may just be THE story of the tournament. Another 2 goals today to aid in UST's comeback from a 2-0 deficit, including a tremendous strike to win the game in OT!
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 20, 2016, 04:14:47 PM
Tommies heading into final four with perhaps a feeling of destiny/belief after coming from behind twice in the weekend to advance. Guts ball.
It was a wild weekend! These come back wins are showing a lot of heart. Excited to see the Final Four - looking forward to some great match ups.
I think the Toms keep it going against Tufts.
2016 NCAA Champion Odds
Calvin -120
Tufts +180
Brandeis +240
St.Thomas +300
2016 NCAA Semi-Final Odds
Tufts +110
St.Thomas +220
Draw +180
Over 2.5 +200
Under 2.5 -200
Calvin -140
Brandeis +220
Draw +200
Over 2.5 -110
Under 2.5 +120
Please email me if you feel like some banana action
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2016, 07:47:55 PM
Bloots, for what it's worth, after seeing them in person (and I've seen them in person now four years in a row), I thought this was the most well-rounded team Brandeis has had . . .
NO way....IMO 2014 Brandeis had their most rounded and best team but they ran into an Oneonta side that was pretty nasty that year
It might be time to throw Kenyon into the SLU and Trinity(TX) teams of having the worst luck in the NCAA's the past 5-10 years.
I would even throw Amherst ino the worst luck section even though they were 2015 Champions. They have seen some hard luck in PK's and the NCAA's since 2010
2 most disappointing teams this past weekend:
Trinity(TX)----I did not know really what to expect from them this past weekend but the defensive miscues was not something i was expecting. They got absolutely pummeled by Kenyon and from what I saw did not pose much of a threat offensively either. Trinity(TX) of the past decade they were not.
Chicago------From what you all were saying they were missing 2 of their best players BUT still to not qualify out of what had to be the easiest pod this past weekemnd is very disappointing especially given their fantastic season
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 21, 2016, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2016, 07:47:55 PM
Bloots, for what it's worth, after seeing them in person (and I've seen them in person now four years in a row), I thought this was the most well-rounded team Brandeis has had . . .
NO way....IMO 2014 Brandeis had their most rounded and best team but they ran into an Oneonta side that was pretty nasty that year
We will see . . . This year's team has already surpassed all predecessors.
Have you watched Brandeis in person this year?
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 21, 2016, 03:36:16 PM
2 most disappointing teams this past weekend:
Trinity(TX)----I did not know really what to expect from them this past weekend but the defensive miscues was not something i was expecting. They got absolutely pummeled by Kenyon and from what I saw did not pose much of a threat offensively either. Trinity(TX) of the past decade they were not.
Chicago------From what you all were saying they were missing 2 of their best players BUT still to not qualify out of what had to be the easiest pod this past weekemnd is very disappointing especially given their fantastic season
Especially agree on the Trinity assessment. They looked very good in winning their home pod last weekend, and their best player, Wyke, returned to action in Medford this weekend. I expected them to be very competitive and perhaps the favorite to emerge.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 21, 2016, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 21, 2016, 03:36:16 PM
2 most disappointing teams this past weekend:
Trinity(TX)----I did not know really what to expect from them this past weekend but the defensive miscues was not something i was expecting. They got absolutely pummeled by Kenyon and from what I saw did not pose much of a threat offensively either. Trinity(TX) of the past decade they were not.
Chicago------From what you all were saying they were missing 2 of their best players BUT still to not qualify out of what had to be the easiest pod this past weekemnd is very disappointing especially given their fantastic season
Especially agree on the Trinity assessment. They looked very good in winning their home pod last weekend, and their best player, Wyke, returned to action in Medford this weekend. I expected them to be very competitive and perhaps the favorite to emerge.
Trinity looked bad. Kenyon was more athletic, faster and played better soccer....
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 21, 2016, 04:01:40 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 21, 2016, 03:20:27 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 20, 2016, 07:47:55 PM
Bloots, for what it's worth, after seeing them in person (and I've seen them in person now four years in a row), I thought this was the most well-rounded team Brandeis has had . . .
NO way....IMO 2014 Brandeis had their most rounded and best team but they ran into an Oneonta side that was pretty nasty that year
We will see . . . This year's team has already surpassed all predecessors.
Have you watched Brandeis in person this year?
Yes twice but I have seen them enough on the stream as well...Listen they are a very good team but the 2014 Brandeis side with Soboff and company would have this years side on its heels a but IMO...Bloots would be the best to analyze this one
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 21, 2016, 04:26:32 PM
Yes twice but I have seen them enough on the stream as well...Listen they are a very good team but the 2014 Brandeis side with Soboff and company would have this years side on its heels a but IMO...Bloots would be the best to analyze this one
My first time on today, guess it was good timing!
Mr.Right, I posted yesterday that I will probably be on sparingly in the next two weeks due to changing jobs and Turkey Day. That's not to say I definitely won't be on at all, just not nearly as often as normal, which is perhaps good for all of us. ;)
I definitely think that Brandeis' 2014 side was a better team than this year's Judges team, at least in terms of front-to-back talent. There were five players that year who I think are virtually irreplaceable: Lanahan, Ocel, Soboff, Savonen, and Lynch, and they also had other stars like Picard and Vieira. Obviously Vieira and Ocel are around this year and Lanahan and Lynch last year, but Savonen and Soboff were both difference-makers in the way that Santos was for Tufts: they were the players who could take a game by the scruff of the neck and do it all themselves.
Up front, taking the full season into account, I think 2014 Brandeis was better than 2016 Brandeis, although the Judges are scoring more goals now than they were earlier in the season. Defensively, the same, and I think the defensive improvement has been even more evident. The only area I would say where they are perhaps better this year is in midfield, as Ocel, Miskin, and Hernandez have been playing together for 3 years now, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Ocel be named an All-American again. In goal, they are perhaps even, as Graffy in 2014 and Woodhouse in 2016 were both very good, and Woodhouse has been a monster in the tournament and was HUGE against Amherst. Moreover, that team had an extremely impressive regular-season record, 17-2, compared to this year's team going 10-5-3, so the 2014 team's body of work in the regular season was undoubtedly more impressive.
I think the 2014 side certainly had the talent to go to the Final 4. The big difference was that Oneonta was even better, and the only shot Brandeis had was for the Judges to host the tourney. They probably would have hosted through the Elite 8 if not for a couple of hard-luck one-goal losses to Rochester and Chicago, both away. Oneonta was definitely a deserved Final 4 team, though, and I had no complaints about bowing out to them. Also, I think this year's team is playing its best soccer right now, whereas I think the 2014 side peaked in late September to early October: there was a stretch where the 2014 side was on an absolute tear, beating both the regional contenders (Tufts 2-0 home and Babson 2-0 away), and obliterating the average sides (I think they put 4 past Bridgewater and Clark as well as 5 past Hobart). By the end of the season, though, they were running on fumes - a lucky win at WashU on Halloween, 1-0 over NYU, and while they did enough to beat Bowdoin and Amherst in the tournament they had pretty much run out of gas by that point. This year's team, however, seems like it's only getting stronger, and has been on an impressive run since mid-October - almost the reverse of the 2014 side.
Now, to 1970s NESCAC Player's point, this year's team, while not as talented as the 2014 team, is perhaps more functional and less reliant on individual talent. This year, the only players I would classify as being real standouts based on their season-long performances are perhaps Ocel and Woodhouse. I was very critical of Brito in a few of the big losses as he made some big mistakes but he has really improved and I think perhaps all he needed was game time - his talent is evident. I also think that Vieira has come into form as of late, Jastremski has been playing well, Hernandez has been dominant in the midfield, and Vinson has been unreal at left back. I think Brandeis was definitely unlucky with injuries early on and lost Miskin in the midfield for a while, which I think definitely hurt, so perhaps having a healthy side is another factor that has contributed to this team's run.
All told, I still think that this year's Brandeis team wasn't quite as talented as that 2014 side in terms of aggregate talent in the starting XI. That said, I also said that this year's Tufts team wasn't nearly as talented as the 2014 side that won the national title, but the Jumbos are back in the Final 4, so what do I know? Ultimately, this year's Brandeis side has figured out a way to get to its first Final 4 in 32 years, so whatever they're doing is evidently working. ;)
Good analysis and I kind of figured you would agree with me on the talent side of 2014 Brandeis. New job or not you might have to come up with an excuse for next Friday to miss work...I already have taken a day off so I can catch the Semi's which are on at 11am and 130pm...With Brandeis in the Final 4 and possibly Coven's last match it would be worth ur while to miss work that day....I have a litany of excuses that I would be happy to share with u...lol...good luck
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 20, 2016, 07:19:31 PM
Quote from: 4samuy on November 20, 2016, 04:43:20 PM
I know this may not be the forum for this, but congrats to the Chicago women for advancing to the final four along with fellow UAA sides Brandeis and WashU.
Impressive, and I wonder when the last time a conference had 3 members advance to the final 4 (Men's or Women's). Also, does Brandeis making the final 4 buy the oft criticized UAA a few months of reprieve? ;)
Hard for any conference other than the UAA to do that due to the (mostly) regional scheduling.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 21, 2016, 05:18:15 PM
Good analysis and I kind of figured you would agree with me on the talent side of 2014 Brandeis. New job or not you might have to come up with an excuse for next Friday to miss work...I already have taken a day off so I can catch the Semi's which are on at 11am and 130pm...With Brandeis in the Final 4 and possibly Coven's last match it would be worth ur while to miss work that day....I have a litany of excuses that I would be happy to share with u...lol...good luck
This made me laugh out loud, particularly the "litany of excuses" part. ;D I will see what I can do!
Still heartbroken but a bit sobered up with hopefully greater clarity of mind and perspective. And so I offer what I hope will be my final thoughts on this season (while reserving the right to post once or twice during the Final Four)....
1) I'll start with Brandeis since that is a feel-good story I can endorse with no hint of a conflicted soul. Brandeis is the team out of that group including Kenyon, Trinity, F&M, SLU, Chicago, Haverford, the NJAC top seed, etc that was pushing every year to break through and finally did so. Huge congrats to Brandeis and Coach Coven. And here is something that I think is relevant to the discussion above about Brandeis 2014 versus Brandeis 2016....EXPECTATIONS and PRESSURE. The 2014 needed and felt pressure to go deep because of expectations, including self-imposed expectations. Same with 2014 Kenyon which arguably was the best of the 2013 through 2016 teams while acknowledging that 2015 and 2016 were very close cousins. There are not many teams who can go wire to wire. Look at Chicago and Rowan (and Messiah) this year. Messiah certainly did it in the past and as recently as 2013, and you can make a strong argument that Amherst after years of heartbreak and pressure did it in 2015. Maybe OWU in 2011 (although OWU was saved having to contend with Messiah that year). In general, though it's very difficult to do. 2016 Brandeis perhaps could just relax and give things a go in a way they couldn't when they were expected to at least go Elite 8 with at least one Final Four during those years. Our own blooter had Brandeis dead and buried just a few weeks ago, and wasn't convinced even the week of selections that Brandeis would get in. Anyway, the role of pressure and the benefit of a good team coming out of nowhere might be worth further discussion. In Kenyon's run the "happiest" one even in eventual defeat was probably the 2013 edition that seemingly came out of nowhere to make a run and announce its presence on the national stage that would then run through this year and hopefully beyond.
2) "The Play." Not sexy I know but it's not my job to promote Tufts any more especially today. After watching probably 25-30 times looking at where everyone was positioned and what unfolded it is clear to me that the Majumder goal was a good goal. Great play especially if designed as they said in the press conference. Surprising that they pulled something out in the 109th minute that they hadn't already tried (or maybe they did), but the throw midway to a tall player to nod deeper into Majumder at the six was a very nice play. Who wouldn't want Majumder with the ball at his feet at the six? That said, Kenyon after mostly shutting down Tufts the whole game save for the one really clean look that Halliday had, didn't do a great job on that play. They well knew from Majumder scoring twice in Gambier that he is a danger man. I might have to look again but there did not seem to be any risk coming from the weak side (a la how Lowry got the game winner from a ball played over by Myers versus Lynchburg). Seems Kenyon should have had a player on both sides of Majumder so he couldn't turn either way and then also Clougher would not have had to come out. I wonder if Myers was screened too because he was within a second or so of being able to come from where he was positioned to clear the ball off the line. Also wonder if Clougher could have jumped the ball before it reached Majumder. Kenyon also put zero pressure on Eichorst heading off the throw. At any rate, after such superb defending all game just hate to have it end like that from the Lords point of view. Clougher has been one of the best GKs in the country for four consecutive years, and while I think there are CB duos perhaps equal to Myers and Lowry I don't there are any that are any better. Most know about Myers. Lowry has been brilliant as well. They're both really skilled as well with tight control contrary to some of the superficial views about Kenyon and possession. They both return, so barring injuries that duo will remain intact for another year. How they replace Clougher is another story.
3) The "revenge" thing. Guess I was wrong, because Shapiro actually endorsed the revenge angle in response to a question at the press conference. Maybe this is a budding intersectional rivalry which will continue. Maybe words were exchanged last year on on the field yesterday. Maybe it really just is about who ended your season the previous year. I don't know. My struggle in understanding it, and perhaps these are just two different things, is that my reaction is that there is a major false equivalency. Tufts had just won a national title and was not a favorite in 2015. Much like this year, and perhaps more so than this year, there was a question about Tufts even making the tournament. Then they beat Montclair and had a good run to the Sweet 16. Kenyon was supposed to win that game, even if you consider the teams even last year or even if secretly (or not so secretly) one thought Tufts was better. Now if Tufts feels entitled to win the national title every year then I get it, but I doubt that's how they feel. So from my perspective we're talking about a team that just recently won a national title, extremely well-earned but also not expected, and another team that was still waiting to break through. Maybe it's just a matter of who your team is but I just don't see how Tufts could have been so worked up about a team still striving when you just reached the promised land the year before. I'l also say that Shapiro was not nearly as generous as I expected. He was fine, mind you. He didn't say anything unprofessional or really provocative, but he certainly did not go out of his way to give Kenyon its due or talk about what a great, truly competitive game it was, how it could have gone either way, know what Kenyon's seniors feel like, etc, etc. Like I said, he is absolutely under no obligation to do so...and he didn't. Mildly surprised.
4) I won't concede that Tufts was "better,' regardless of who says that, just like I doubt any Tufts fans would concede that Kenyon was "better" last year. From my point of view these were two very well-matched and even teams. I think both took each other to the limits of the other. If Kenyon had scored the minute before when they served 4-5 balls into the box in a sequence and had a good shot at the six go wide I don't think there would have been any screams of an unfair or significantly unbalanced result. Kenyon also had a couple of dangerous free kicks that one would have hoped tested Greenwood more. The game went in waves in very tough conditions and often against what we'd expect. Kenyon carried more play (and possession) in the 1st half going into the wind, which Shapiro did acknowledge, and then Tufts did the same during the first half of the 2nd half. The game went back and forth from there. I don't think Tufts would have beaten Trinity 4-0. I also don't think Kenyon would beat Trinity again 4-0. Trinity doesn't suck. Trinity almost took out Amherst last year and the performance of Redlands this year (taking out Chicago) shows that the West has some good teams. But Kenyon did out-possess a possession oriented team in Trinity and Kenyon possessed a lot in the 1st half with Tufts (by necessity really as that was the only way to get through that 1st half). It was a tough day to judge and I don't think any hard conclusions should be reached based on how a team played one day in those conditions. I view Kenyon as a hybrid team. In response to a question about Kenyon "always playing balls in the air," Shapiro actually compared Kenyon to Amherst, and in so doing also said they were perhaps prepared for Kenyon's pressure because that is how much of the NESCAC plays. One difference though is that Kenyon was pressuring and winning balls in the middle third instead of Tufts half of the field in part because of the wind. That's one thing that might have been a little different on another day. I also react to the notions that Tufts just loves possession and only plays beautiful soccer. Tufts is a hybrid too, maybe 40/60 instead of 60/40, but a hybrid still. Sullivan and Coleman had plenty of big clearances, and Sullivan is superb in the enforcer role but don't for a minute think that he is not an enforcer. Tufts is very physical and as I commented yesterday very, very big. The kid who started up top, Najjar (sp?), Eichhorst, Rojas, etc are even bigger than the CBs. Rojas btw made a difference when he came in. Tufts' size had an impact on Kenyon just as I think that made a difference versus UMass-Boston (who by the way were for real and could have won that game with a big break here or there...and their full team). With all those caveats out of the way, I will say this...Tufts was the best and most challenging team Kenyon played all year, and Kenyon played more than a handful of really good teams. I heard 4th hand that the Kenyon players felt that way too. As I said, I think both teams pushed each other to their limits in less than ideal conditions. It was a worthy battle in the Elite 8, and yes, a bitter one for either team to lose.
5) PKs.... PKs always get a rap or a bad rap as a terrible way to lose. I'd like to amend that. Sometimes it's better to lose in PKs because at least when you begin the PK shootout you KNOW there is a decent chance you are going to lose. That means you have time while it's happening (as a fan and as a player) to absorb at least a little bit that you might not advance. A loss in sudden death OT feels different. Yes, you know the other team might score, but you don't see when and where that might happen...and often it still FEELS totally unexpected in a way you can't steel yourself for. I would have rather "lost" yesterday in PKs even though I know that would have been pretty painful as well given the stakes and what the game meant to my team.
6) Attendance and Fri/Sat Final Fours....I was curious about attendance at the Calvin-Messiah game and saw they had 1700+. By any measure that's a great D3 turnout. I checked the Messiah-Kenyon game in 2013 which was on a Saturday night and then attendance was just short of 3000. The next night versus F&M on a Sunday night was 1700+. Decent attendance at the Final Four is challenging enough and the Fri/Sat set-up (and yes, I know why) makes it worse. There might be only 200-300 people for games that deserve at least 1000+ and preferably 2000+. The early times are brutal too. I don't care that much now, but if I did I would have to take off from work to make sure I could see 11:00 and 1:30 games.
7) I enjoy reading the posts of anyone I've ever bumped heads with on this site. Mr.Right, I'll continue to love you. Keep up the good work.
8) Where the heck is Bowdoin when you really need them?
9) NCAC out.....
NO hard feelings...I always cool down after 5 minutes anyway in life and forget what I was even arguing about in the 1st place. You do a nice justice for this site with your wholehearted and profound commentary. BTW disagreements are the best part of this site because it opens up other discussion topics and gets more people involved.
Speaking of disagreements, I have to disagree with your thoughts on the Tufts press conference after the game. I thought Greenwood, Majumder and Shaprio were very thoughtful and humble in their victory. I am not sure what else could have been said that you would of like to hear...
BTW---Speaking of Press Conferences I thought UMASS Boston's coach and two captains were also very humble after their loss to Tufts. They played hard in that game and were not dirty at all against Tufts so they can go out of the tournament on a high note not a low one. You can tell the players absolutely love Beverlin and what he does for them on an off the field. I agreed with his assessment that he was surprised in the 1st Half that Tufts was not pressing them as much as he thought they would. I also agree with that but that could have been the game plan by Tufts. It is quite possible and just a guess that Beverlin might be to close to his players and there is not a Coach / Player line but that is just a guess. Either way UMB went out with class after the fiasco at Haverford.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2016, 10:22:20 AM
Speaking of disagreements, I have to disagree with your thoughts on the Tufts press conference after the game. I thought Greenwood, Majumder and Shaprio were very thoughtful and humble in their victory. I am not sure what else could have been said that you would of like to hear...
You're right (per usual ;)). Some sour grapes I'm sure but doing my best to cope.
I said he was fine. Just thought based on what have read about him here and heard about him that he might be a little more magnanimous. Pretty sure Kenyon would not have been more magnanimous, but I guess I expected more from Shapiro. Maybe they were still stunned and overcome about getting back to Final Four. I can tell you that watching live -- and I am an eternal pessimist -- that all the way until Tufts scored I thought Kenyon was going to win.
BTW, I am very familiar with Greenwood back to high school days. A tremendous competitor and has had a phenomenal career for an undersized GK. Clougher has been great in PK shootouts but given how tough Greenwood is and the home crowd I would have guessed 60/40 that Tufts would have prevailed.
And since Serpone gets mentioned a lot negatively I'll just add that I've noticed he has been very complimentary and gracious with his comments (published) in aftermath of both wins and losses.
A few Thoughts:
Hats off to a wonderful Dynasty:
When Messiah begin the 2017 season, it will be the first time in 16 years that no player on the roster has a championship under their belt.
This is just absolutely amazing considering the level of competition at D3 soccer.
In sports we are cautioned never to say never, but I just do not see another program having that type of greatness at the highest level for such a sustained period of time.
I think there are teams who have consistently been able to compete consistently (a decade or more) at a very high level in our sport (Loras/Amherst/OWU/Wheaton/Williams/SLU/Oneonta) to name a few, but to win titles year after year. I just do not see it happening again.
Hats off to Tufts:
Proved that they have the heart of a champion, by getting themselves in a position to do what only Wheaton/OWU/Messiah have done in the modern era, win more than one crown.
This program is obviously very legit. The mark of a great program is the improvement of players year after year. I think Tufts has done this very well.
Hats off to Brandies:
The 1976 Champions and 1984 runners up have waited 4 decades to be here, and something tells me they will not disappoint.
Despite the wait, they have been knocking at the door for the past 5-6 years, and a win for Coven would be what all disinterested (objective) fans will be pulling for I'm sure.
Hats off to Calvin:
The Dutch of D3 soccer.
Finalists in 2009 and 2011 were disappointed in not reaching the promiseland, but are in prime position to get over the hump this year. I also think many neutrals will want to see Calvin finally pull it off and enter the elite club of Champions. They play the right way, and the program deserves the win, but deserving a championship means nothing unless you snatch it up and squeeze tight.
Hats off to St. Thomas
Might be time for a Saint to take the title again :)
In all seriousness, this is a real feel good story, and if any season were made for a total upset, this would be it.
I don't think these boyz are wearing a glass slipper however, in D3, you get to the final 4 it means you are a dangerous team.
A title would cement the programs legacy and point it upwards for sure!
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 22, 2016, 01:21:21 PM
You're right (per usual ;)). Some sour grapes I'm sure but doing my best to cope.
I said he was fine. Just thought based on what have read about him here and heard about him that he might be a little more magnanimous. Pretty sure Kenyon would not have been more magnanimous, but I guess I expected more from Shapiro.
To be fair to him, he did say that it was a "very good Kenyon team" and that "we knew we'd have our hands full," so he did offer praise even if it wasn't a significant amount.
As for the earlier point about the incongruity of the respective programs being pained by losing, I personally would agree that the pain of losing in the Sweet 16 the year after winning a national title perhaps doesn't equate to the pain of losing in the Elite 8 for a program that's been chasing the Final 4 for years, and so the former perhaps doesn't have a strong justification for wanting "revenge." In that case, I agree that one has certainly been to the Promised Land, while the other hasn't had the chance to taste it, and so the former should be grateful. But I'd say that all programs are selfish - they want to win no matter how many times the team has (or hasn't) won. I'd say the big thing is that even programs who have tasted success are greedy for more, and any exit from the tournament - regardless of the stage - can invoke the desire for revenge, even if it's perhaps not as justified as other cases.
Back to Shapiro, perhaps I and others hyped up his demeanor too much. :P That said, I think Shapiro being a class act - which I still think he is - doesn't necessarily mean that he is super magnanimous/warm/friendly. In fact, from my observations of him he seems very much like the archetypal pragmatist who really doesn't get too high or low regardless of the situation. For me, I hold him in high regard due to his even keel, particularly when his team isn't doing well: he isn't the type of coach hassling and yelling at the ref and doesn't hold sour grapes in his comments when the Jumbos lose, which is admittedly not extremely often. Of course, you can be disappointed, but given that it's very easy to go from disappointment to bitterness in bad situations, the fact that he does not do that - at least publicly - is admirable.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2016, 01:49:50 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 22, 2016, 01:21:21 PM
You're right (per usual ;)). Some sour grapes I'm sure but doing my best to cope.
I said he was fine. Just thought based on what have read about him here and heard about him that he might be a little more magnanimous. Pretty sure Kenyon would not have been more magnanimous, but I guess I expected more from Shapiro.
To be fair to him, he did say that it was a "very good Kenyon team" and that "we knew we'd have our hands full," so he did offer praise even if it wasn't a significant amount.
As for the earlier point about the incongruity of the respective programs being pained by losing, I personally would agree that the pain of losing in the Sweet 16 the year after winning a national title perhaps doesn't equate to the pain of losing in the Elite 8 for a program that's been chasing the Final 4 for years, and so the former perhaps doesn't have a strong justification for wanting "revenge." In that case, I agree that one has certainly been to the Promised Land, while the other hasn't had the chance to taste it, and so the former should be grateful. But I'd say that all programs are selfish - they want to win no matter how many times the team has (or hasn't) won. I'd say the big thing is that even programs who have tasted success are greedy for more, and any exit from the tournament - regardless of the stage - can invoke the desire for revenge, even if it's perhaps not as justified as other cases.
Back to Shapiro, perhaps I and others hyped up his demeanor too much. :P That said, I think Shapiro being a class act - which I still think he is - doesn't necessarily mean that he is super magnanimous/warm/friendly. In fact, from my observations of him he seems very much like the archetypal pragmatist who really doesn't get too high or low regardless of the situation. For me, I hold him in high regard due to his even keel, particularly when his team isn't doing well: he isn't the type of coach hassling and yelling at the ref and doesn't hold sour grapes in his comments when the Jumbos lose, which is admittedly not extremely often. Of course, you can be disappointed, but given that it's very easy to go from disappointment to bitterness in bad situations, the fact that he does not do that - at least publicly - is admirable.
And you were right. I watched again and that stuff is in there, so I overreacted (shocking!) and I apologize to Tufts Nation. You also were right that it wasn't effusive, so maybe on first listen I heard what I wanted to hear. I guess I thought he might start his "opening statement" with "wow, what an exciting, great game" or something like that. Already made way to much of it, and of course there is no Kenyon post-game conference to be found, so we can read into that whatever we wish.
Can always count on the Blootmeister to take pains to be fair which is appreciated regarding the other comments. And I think sometimes we praise some unduly and hammer others unduly.
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 22, 2016, 02:18:08 PM
And you were right. I watched again and that stuff is in there, so I overreacted (shocking!) and I apologize to Tufts Nation. You also were right that it wasn't effusive, so maybe on first listen I heard what I wanted to hear. I guess I thought he might start his "opening statement" with "wow, what an exciting, great game" or something like that. Already made way to much of it, and of course there is no Kenyon post-game conference to be found, so we can read into that whatever we wish.
Can always count on the Blootmeister to take pains to be fair which is appreciated regarding the other comments. And I think sometimes we praise some unduly and hammer others unduly.
I appreciate the compliment and like that name - if only I could change my username! +K
Quote from: blooter442 on November 22, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
Quote from: NCAC New England on November 22, 2016, 02:18:08 PM
And you were right. I watched again and that stuff is in there, so I overreacted (shocking!) and I apologize to Tufts Nation. You also were right that it wasn't effusive, so maybe on first listen I heard what I wanted to hear. I guess I thought he might start his "opening statement" with "wow, what an exciting, great game" or something like that. Already made way to much of it, and of course there is no Kenyon post-game conference to be found, so we can read into that whatever we wish.
Can always count on the Blootmeister to take pains to be fair which is appreciated regarding the other comments. And I think sometimes we praise some unduly and hammer others unduly.
I appreciate the compliment and like that name - if only I could change my username! +K
You may not be able to change your Username, but you can change the name that appears next to your posts. Go to Profile/Account Settings and then change your Name (not Username). Blootmeister . . .
While things are a bit calm for the next week or so, I have a "soccer speak" question that I am sure you folks can answer. It is an "is" and "are" question. I know that the Jumbos "are" on a roll. Does that also mean Tufts "are" on a roll? I know that in the World Cup Germany "are" a good side and the U.S. "are" not so much. Barcelona is a wonderful city and Barcelona are a good side. Tufts "is" a great university and the Tuft's University Men's Soccer Team "is" or "are" headed back to the final four??
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 22, 2016, 01:26:01 PM
A few Thoughts:
Hats off to a wonderful Dynasty:
When Messiah begin the 2017 season, it will be the first time in 16 years that no player on the roster has a championship under their belt.
This is just absolutely amazing considering the level of competition at D3 soccer.
In sports we are cautioned never to say never, but I just do not see another program having that type of greatness at the highest level for such a sustained period of time.
I think there are teams who have consistently been able to compete consistently (a decade or more) at a very high level in our sport (Loras/Amherst/OWU/Wheaton/Williams/SLU/Oneonta) to name a few, but to win titles year after year. I just do not see it happening again.
Hats off to Tufts:
Proved that they have the heart of a champion, by getting themselves in a position to do what only Wheaton/OWU/Messiah have done in the modern era, win more than one crown.
This program is obviously very legit. The mark of a great program is the improvement of players year after year. I think Tufts has done this very well.
Hats off to Brandies:
The 1976 Champions and 1984 runners up have waited 4 decades to be here, and something tells me they will not disappoint.
Despite the wait, they have been knocking at the door for the past 5-6 years, and a win for Coven would be what all disinterested (objective) fans will be pulling for I'm sure.
Hats off to Calvin:
The Dutch of D3 soccer.
Finalists in 2009 and 2011 were disappointed in not reaching the promiseland, but are in prime position to get over the hump this year. I also think many neutrals will want to see Calvin finally pull it off and enter the elite club of Champions. They play the right way, and the program deserves the win, but deserving a championship means nothing unless you snatch it up and squeeze tight.
Hats off to St. Thomas
Might be time for a Saint to take the title again :)
In all seriousness, this is a real feel good story, and if any season were made for a total upset, this would be it.
I don't think these boyz are wearing a glass slipper however, in D3, you get to the final 4 it means you are a dangerous team.
A title would cement the programs legacy and point it upwards for sure!
Very nice post! +K. I think it's like hockey, any team with a good defense and hot goaltending has a good chance of winning. I haven't watched enough of all 4 teams to judge, but I have seen 3 of the 4, and they have good defenses. Also, any of the 4 teams can get hot and win. Unless, there is a clear favorite, like Messiah in past years, I really won't be surprised by the team that wins the title. Yes, NCAC, if Kenyon had beaten Tufts, i wouldn't be surprised if they won the title. They were a quality side capable of it. One other thing....BLOOOOOTS!
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 22, 2016, 02:59:28 PM
Very nice post! +K. I think it's like hockey, any team with a good defense and hot goaltending has a good chance of winning. I haven't watched enough of all 4 teams to judge, but I have seen 3 of the 4, and they have good defenses. Also, any of the 4 teams can get hot and win. Unless, there is a clear favorite, like Messiah in past years, I really won't be surprised by the team that wins the title. Yes, NCAC, if Kenyon had beaten Tufts, i wouldn't be surprised if they won the title. They were a quality side capable of it. One other thing....BLOOOOOTS!
* Blootmeister
;)
(Don't worry, I don't actually expect people to call me that. But I very much agree that good defense and hot goaltending can get a team a long way, especially at a time of year when goals are at a premium.)
To think myself in particular was starting to question whether Shapiro had "lost" his team way back in 2012 or 2013...I am to lazy to go back to old posts but I can remember when I was questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" after snagging such a great class in his 2nd year at Tufts. I was to quick to judge but that 2015 class was so talented that by their Sophomore year(2012) they were really struggling and I remember questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" or not allowing Santos, Hoppenot,etc to play with flair and not worrying about defending(especially Santos). In all, it just took more time than normal for all of them to gel but when it did gel man did they get it done in 2014..
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 22, 2016, 03:24:39 PM
To think myself in particular was starting to question whether Shapiro had "lost" his team way back in 2012 or 2013...I am to lazy to go back to old posts but I can remember when I was questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" after snagging such a great class in his 2nd year at Tufts. I was to quick to judge but that 2015 class was so talented that by their Sophomore year(2012) they were really struggling and I remember questioning if Shapiro was "over-coaching" or not allowing Santos, Hoppenot,etc to play with flair and not worrying about defending(especially Santos). In all, it just took more time than normal for all of them to gel but when it did gel man did they get it done in 2014..
I remember those posts! The tools were in place in 2014. Some of the posts stemmed from Tufts not making the NCAA's in 2013, and Santos starting 2014 on the bench.... However, the stellar defense, inclusive of Monil Patel (whose not often mentioned with Kramer and Williams), the goaltending, the vision and passing at midfield, and the feisty Hoppenot, did finally put it together. I remember people stating that Tufts may have had the best tournament run in history being on the road against all favorites, including the then invincible Messiah, but that they weren't one of the great champions. Since time has passed, with reflection, that team sure looks pretty good, certainly with the multiple components... Finally, I seem to recall a Wheaton poster stating that they never heard of Tufts before the final 4........
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 22, 2016, 02:40:08 PM
While things are a bit calm for the next week or so, I have a "soccer speak" question that I am sure you folks can answer. It is an "is" and "are" question. I know that the Jumbos "are" on a roll. Does that also mean Tufts "are" on a roll? I know that in the World Cup Germany "are" a good side and the U.S. "are" not so much. Barcelona is a wonderful city and Barcelona are a good side. Tufts "is" a great university and the Tuft's University Men's Soccer Team "is" or "are" headed back to the final four??
Tufts "are" headed back to the Final 4. It appears to be an English thing to refer to a team in the plural. Perhaps, even though a team is a singular unit, the reference comes from the fact that the team consists of 11 players.
Tournament Bracket Extravaganza Standings
MAF: Rd1= 44 points Rd2= 44 points Rd3= 8 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0 Total 96 points
Shooter: Rd1= 44 points Rd2= 40 points Rd3= 16 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0 Total 100 points
LastGuy: Rd1=42 points Rd2= 52 points Rd3= 32 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0 Total 126 points
Swibbles: Rd1= 54 points Rd2= 28 points Rd3= 8 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0 Total 90 points
NJrexSoccer03: Rd1= 44 points Rd2= 36 points Rd3= 24 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0 Total 104 points
D3 Scout: Rd1= 42 points Rd2= 32 points Rd3= 16 points Rd4= 0 Rd5= 0 Rd6= 0 Total 90 points
Pelinho: Rd1= 48 points Rd2 40 points Rd3= 24 points Rd4= 32 points Rd5= ? Rd6= 0 Total 144 points *Potential 32 points left for you*
***Please double and triple check your score. I apologize in advance for any errors or miscalculations!!***
Round 1 is worth 2 points
Round 2 is worth 4 points
Round 3 is worth 8 points
Round 4 is worth 16 points
Round 5 is worth 32 points
Champion is worth 64 points
Congrats to Pelinho05 on winning this year's bracket challenge!
Thanks 1970s NESCAC Player!
Ah, nothing better than that fresh haircut feeling and a bit of a gestalt shift.
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday. Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast. I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends!
Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity. Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation,
they don't rebuild, they reload. In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do.
I found one of your comments especially interesting:
Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5. Shapiro must recruit for size....
They are the Jumbos, aren't they ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year). In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.
Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 22, 2016, 07:11:38 PM
Thanks 1970s NESCAC Player!
Ah, nothing better than that fresh haircut feeling and a bit of a gestalt shift.
I forgot that Newman went to Kenyon! Well played . . .
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 22, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday. Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast. I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends!
Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity. Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload. In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do.
I found one of your comments especially interesting:
Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5. Shapiro must recruit for size....
They are the Jumbos, aren't they ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year). In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.
Thanks. I appreciate your post, Ommadawn.
I'll respond backwards. I've had the same thought about Amherst re: why Tufts is such an unusually large team...although supposedly being committed to a very different style while still accounting for the size/style of one team sounds complicated. Maybe that makes sense when you throw in Midd and Williams as also tending to have some big (and tall) kids, but perhaps it is also just coincidence. Certainly it did not seem like coincidence when Shapiro decided to start 6'4/6'5 Braun for the first time all season over the two highest scorers over the last two years (and that may well have had more to do with the conditions than the specific opponent). He also put Rojas, Najjar and Eichhorst in at opportune times and Kenyon struggled to handle them. Would be interesting to hear directly from Shapiro what he was thinking. At any rate, I certainly was not contesting that Tufts plays good soccer. My point was simply that that doesn't mean they also aren't tough and physical, as indicated by frequently out-fouling opponents as they did again on Sunday. Not a knock but more an endorsement of how competitive they are. Teams want to win above all else and hardly anyone is going to choose aesthetics over winning. I watched Tufts play Brandeis live last year and was duly impressed with their overall package of talent, skill, speed and athleticism/physicality.
I think there are parallels between the programs and where they currently are at. I think, though, that it's important to remember that they are newer or at least resurgent programs. As Mr.Right likes to say, Shapiro's predecessor left him a bag of beat-up deflated balls and a ring of cones. Kenyon had not had a winning season in years, much less a NCAA bid, when Brown took over. Programs require a very committed and talented coach to build a program, to tend to the grass so to speak once the program develops, and then continually look for ways to improve. Being at a very attractive institution certainly helps but is by no means a guarantee. Tufts has become one of the hottest schools in the country, mostly shedding its unfair reputation as a great fallback option for Ivy League rejects/wannabes. It is unique among the NESCACs in terms of size, range of offerings and location right outside one of the country's great cities. It seems Shapiro has leveraged the Tufts "difference" to great advantage. Kenyon is one of the "Midwest NESCACs" along with Oberlin, Carleton, Grinnell and Macalester. [DePauw and Denison are also similar in terms of NCAC schools.] I don't know anything about how Tufts and Kenyon may have overlapped in seeking recruits, as Kenyon is so different from Tufts and seems more naturally an overlap with Colby and Bates among NESCACs while Oberlin would overlap with Wesleyan. Now that's in terms of how students in general looking at these schools would tend to migrate, so maybe that doesn't hold with athletic recruiting. In any case, just thinking about some of those schools just mentioned with a mix of some doing well with soccer and others not so much yields important tells about what is necessary to sustained athletic success in any particular sport.
As for my psychological state during the game, as I said, I was unusually confident (for me) that Kenyon was going to prevail all the way to the 109th minute when I was trying to figure out where we should position ourselves for PKs. So yeah, I was devastated, but I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend overall and it was a wonderful treat to see Kenyon play in the Boston area so we could actually see them play. It was good to see so many Kenyon folks show up and frankly the turnout was as good or better than some home games (sans students). Remember that almost all posters who opined thought Trinity would handle Kenyon rather easily. That was bizarre to me, as though some have no idea about Kenyon's standing in the current D3 soccer world, but even with the loss, the exposure in a different area of the country that is very popular and D3-soccer-centric yielded what I think was a big net plus. I think by almost any measure Kenyon showed well as I knew they would. One of the biggest challenges I would guess for Kenyon with recruiting is just getting kids to visit Gambier. Now certainly it is not for everyone and especially those craving a big urban environment, but for many it is magic at first sight. Knowing that as a soccer player you can go there and also play for a top D3 program is very attractive.
Areas for improvement, as though I have some say, which I very resoundingly do not....a trip every year or at a minimum every other year to New England, Pennsylvania (beyond Pittsburgh so like Messiah, F&M, Haverford/Swat) or Jersey, or Chicago area....an overseas trip or equivalent as frequently as allowed by the NCAA....more aggressive inclusion and involvement of the alumni base, including more aggressive marketing of alumni successes so parents of potential recruits can feel even more confident and knowledgeable about where a Kenyon education can lead given its remote and sort of quirky location....and greater commitment to the idea that all players will be taken care of and supported whether they end up playing a lot or not especially in this era of these colleges costing 60-65K+ a year. Kenyon is pretty good with financial aid and also has the advantage of some merit aid, but the latter of course only comes into play for kids at or near the top of the admissions pool.
Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 23, 2016, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 22, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday. Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast. I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends!
Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity. Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload. In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do.
I found one of your comments especially interesting:
Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5. Shapiro must recruit for size....
They are the Jumbos, aren't they ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year). In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.
Thanks. I appreciate your post, Ommadawn.
I'll respond backwards. I've had the same thought about Amherst re: why Tufts is such an unusually large team...although supposedly being committed to a very different style while still accounting for the size/style of one team sounds complicated. Maybe that makes sense when you throw in Midd and Williams as also tending to have some big (and tall) kids, but perhaps it is also just coincidence. Certainly it did not seem like coincidence when Shapiro decided to start 6'4/6'5 Braun for the first time all season over the two highest scorers over the last two years (and that may well have had more to do with the conditions than the specific opponent). He also put Rojas, Najjar and Eichhorst in at opportune times and Kenyon struggled to handle them. Would be interesting to hear directly from Shapiro what he was thinking. At any rate, I certainly was not contesting that Tufts plays good soccer. My point was simply that that doesn't mean they also aren't tough and physical, as indicated by frequently out-fouling opponents as they did again on Sunday. Not a knock but more an endorsement of how competitive they are. Teams want to win above all else and hardly anyone is going to choose aesthetics over winning. I watched Tufts play Brandeis live last year and was duly impressed with their overall package of talent, skill, speed and athleticism/physicality.
I think there are parallels between the programs and where they currently are at. I think, though, that it's important to remember that they are newer or at least resurgent programs. As Mr.Right likes to say, Shapiro's predecessor left him a bag of beat-up deflated balls and a ring of cones. Kenyon had not had a winning season in years, much less a NCAA bid, when Brown took over. Programs require a very committed and talented coach to build a program, to tend to the grass so to speak once the program develops, and then continually look for ways to improve. Being at a very attractive institution certainly helps but is by no means a guarantee. Tufts has become one of the hottest schools in the country, mostly shedding its unfair reputation as a great fallback option for Ivy League rejects/wannabes. It is unique among the NESCACs in terms of size, range of offerings and location right outside one of the country's great cities. It seems Shapiro has leveraged the Tufts "difference" to great advantage. Kenyon is one of the "Midwest NESCACs" along with Oberlin, Carleton, Grinnell and Macalester. [DePauw and Denison are also similar in terms of NCAC schools.] I don't know anything about how Tufts and Kenyon may have overlapped in seeking recruits, as Kenyon is so different from Tufts and seems more naturally an overlap with Colby and Bates among NESCACs while Oberlin would overlap with Wesleyan. Now that's in terms of how students in general looking at these schools would tend to migrate, so maybe that doesn't hold with athletic recruiting. In any case, just thinking about some of those schools just mentioned with a mix of some doing well with soccer and others not so much yields important tells about what is necessary to sustained athletic success in any particular sport.
As for my psychological state during the game, as I said, I was unusually confident (for me) that Kenyon was going to prevail all the way to the 109th minute when I was trying to figure out where we should position ourselves for PKs. So yeah, I was devastated, but I thoroughly enjoyed the weekend overall and it was a wonderful treat to see Kenyon play in the Boston area so we could actually see them play. It was good to see so many Kenyon folks show up and frankly the turnout was as good or better than some home games (sans students). Remember that almost all posters who opined thought Trinity would handle Kenyon rather easily. That was bizarre to me, as though some have no idea about Kenyon's standing in the current D3 soccer world, but even with the loss, the exposure in a different area of the country that is very popular and D3-soccer-centric yielded what I think was a big net plus. I think by almost any measure Kenyon showed well as I knew they would. One of the biggest challenges I would guess for Kenyon with recruiting is just getting kids to visit Gambier. Now certainly it is not for everyone and especially those craving a big urban environment, but for many it is magic at first sight. Knowing that as a soccer player you can go there and also play for a top D3 program is very attractive.
Areas for improvement, as though I have some say, which I very resoundingly do not....a trip every year or at a minimum every other year to New England, Pennsylvania (beyond Pittsburgh so like Messiah, F&M, Haverford/Swat) or Jersey, or Chicago area....an overseas trip or equivalent as frequently as allowed by the NCAA....more aggressive inclusion and involvement of the alumni base, including more aggressive marketing of alumni successes so parents of potential recruits can feel even more confident and knowledgeable about where a Kenyon education can lead given its remote and sort of quirky location....and greater commitment to the idea that all players will be taken care of and supported whether they end up playing a lot or not especially in this era of these colleges costing 60-65K+ a year. Kenyon is pretty good with financial aid and also has the advantage of some merit aid, but the latter of course only comes into play for kids at or near the top of the admissions pool.
+k
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 22, 2016, 11:28:37 PM
Paul Newman (pka NCAC NE), I join Mr. Right (and others) in appreciating your insightful commentary after the "pure devastation" that you experienced on Sunday. Knowing your allegiance beforehand, I couldn't help thinking about what being at the game was like for you while watching the webcast. I hope that Pennebaker is correct and that your bouts of "expressive writing" (and new moniker) have served therapeutic ends!
Despite my general impression that the wind was the true winner of the game, I thought that the match pitted two programs that are at, or near, full maturity. Both schools have, over a similar period of time, joined the top tier of D3 programs to the extent that when they lose their impact players to graduation, they don't rebuild, they reload. In New England at least, they compete for some of the same players in recruiting. If the past two years are any indication, Kenyon and Tufts can expect to meet again in the NCAA tournament and undoubtedly will play a memorable game when they do.
I found one of your comments especially interesting:
Quote from: PaulNewmanLords'49 on November 20, 2016, 05:13:03 PMKenyon is not used to that, as Tufts seemed to roll out a slew of 6'2 and over players with several 6'4/6'5. Shapiro must recruit for size....
They are the Jumbos, aren't they ;) (although "Majumbos" might be more appropriate given the exploits of their talisman, with a big tip of the trunk to Becherano for rising to the occasion and carrying the offensive load this year). In seriousness, however, I wonder if the size of the Tufts players is a direct reflection of the NESCAC arms (legs?) race to come up with a roster that can defend the tall attackers that Amherst seems to roll out with regularity.
This response belongs in the Nescac Thread but I will respond here. In actuality it was Williams in 2009 that started this "height" phenomenon. They started a Back 4 of LB Matt Ratajczak at 6'4, CB Conor Smith at 6'4, CB Joe Vella at 6'2 and RB Philip Vestergaard at 6'4. They were absolute beasts back there but they played on the ground and possessed the ball very well. They all were fast and skilled. That was a "nasty" Williams side that beat an extremely talented 2009 York side at York and then beat CNU to get to the NCAA Final 4 in 2009. They lost to Messiah 2-1 in a well played game(not as well played as the PK loss to Messiah in 2006) but a very well played game that they had a chance to tie up but a deserved PK was not called.Oh well...Anyway, to catch up Amherst and Midd started to get even bigger. Mind you they were still big but not fast or nearly as skilled as that Williams back 4 in 2009. Bowdoin was actually the 2nd biggest side in 2009 and got even bigger and added 2 long throwers which propelled them to the NCAA Final 4 in 2010(which they absolutely coughed up a 1-0 lead in the Semi's to Lynchburg with 2 minutes left). That was a very dangerous Bowdoin side as they had some serious skill in midfield as well. Back to my point....Williams had massive SIZE but they still played futbol, they were not whacking everything..It was fun to watch...To catch-up Serpone got VERY BIG even up front which caused problems especially for the weaker sides in Nescac. Bates and Colby just couldn't keep up. Now every Nescac side is trying to keep up with Amherst and their physicality but man it is not the most pleasurable thing to watch. Ironically, after 2009 Williams got smaller in some areas of the field while other teams like Conn and Tufts were getting bigger to keep up. Back to 2009 though Williams Back 4 were skilled and fast but were also obviously very physical and Messiah had scouted them at York in the Elite 8. That was McCarty's 1st year and he knew Williams had a massive height advantage and they were big and fast but Messiah's flank players were even faster and Williams got stretched to much in that game. Good game though...
What is the fascination with height in Nescac soccer? Most of the best players in the history of the game are under 6 ft? It's not basketball. I happen to know that Amherst is bringing in a very talented wing player next year who is probably 5'6 to 5'7. Messiah has a good mix of size with many 5'8 and under. I don't see a lot of tall top international players.
I'm not convinced that most of the best players in the history of the game are under 6 ft. Sure, the nifty attacking midfielders and some strikers who dart around creating/finding pockets of space are the smaller guys with magical feet (Messi, Pele, Maradona, Pirlo, Robben). These legends are amazing. But most quality sides feature players that bring a mix of physicality, personality, technicality and tactical acuity. In fact, I contend that a side with 11 Messis would not fare well at all. Height is an advantage in goal, of course, with some GKs who hover at around 6 ' needing incredible ups to make up the difference. Every world-class team I can think of has tall CBs (center halfs if you're in England). Most complete teams have the option of a tall, central, hold-up striker who plays with his back to the goal during the build-up and then faces the goal to finish the crosses. Height is not an inherent evil: Ronaldo, Zlatan, Bale, Suarez, Pique.
The challenge is to require all players, no matter their size, to hone their technical skills and tactical vision. It's tempting to rely on the physical when you have the physical on your side. It's short-sighted, however. A good coach will find a system that can use the height to the team's advantage while mixing in players with other attributes that complement. Amherst under Serpone has had some tall dudes: both Sucres, Kovacs and Bull, Singer, Wirz, Bean, Orozco. And some under 6' who have left their mark: NPL, Ciambella, both Ayoamas, Lenhart, Heo, to name just a few. As noted, there's plenty of height at other NESCACs: the rising Hamilton team, Tufts, Mid, Williams. I see that Brandeis has 11 guys listed over 6'.
Come to think of it, maybe this 6' ruler is not really a great barometer for college teams in the US, where accomplished athletes have access to good nutrition and health care!
The Tommies will play Friday Dec. 2 in Salem, Va., in the national semifinals against unranked Tufts (Mass.) (13-5-2). Unranked Brandeis (13-5-4) and No. 16-ranked Calvin (22-2) play that day in the other semifinal.
this sentence right here is astonishing in a good way. 2 unranked teams,a #8, and #16 ranking. when was the last time this has happened ? it's amazing that teams like this battle through and survive and advance. no one in their right mind would've picked any of these teams besides Tufts given their past tournament results
Yes, it's what makes the Beautiful Game a three-act play (pre-season, regular season, post-season), featuring comedy, tragedy, scene changes, foreshadowing, plot twists and a ton of character development. Though I'm usually seated in the upper loge by this time each year (except for 2015 :D), it's still quite a show!
This is the 4th appearance in the final 4 for Calvin since 2009. They are consistently under rated. This year is surprising though only because of the tough route they had to get there. Not very people would predict Calvin to beat Messiah at Messiah. One of these year maybe it won't be a surprise when they succeed.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 22, 2016, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 22, 2016, 02:40:08 PM
While things are a bit calm for the next week or so, I have a "soccer speak" question that I am sure you folks can answer. It is an "is" and "are" question. I know that the Jumbos "are" on a roll. Does that also mean Tufts "are" on a roll? I know that in the World Cup Germany "are" a good side and the U.S. "are" not so much. Barcelona is a wonderful city and Barcelona are a good side. Tufts "is" a great university and the Tuft's University Men's Soccer Team "is" or "are" headed back to the final four??
Tufts "are" headed back to the Final 4. It appears to be an English thing to refer to a team in the plural. Perhaps, even though a team is a singular unit, the reference comes from the fact that the team consists of 11 players.
Tufts is not plural....it is singular - it is one university, not several.
"Tufts University is headed." Same thing as "Tufts is headed."
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 23, 2016, 09:03:11 PM
The Tommies will play Friday Dec. 2 in Salem, Va., in the national semifinals against unranked Tufts (Mass.) (13-5-2). Unranked Brandeis (13-5-4) and No. 16-ranked Calvin (22-2) play that day in the other semifinal.
this sentence right here is astonishing in a good way. 2 unranked teams,a #8, and #16 ranking. when was the last time this has happened ? it's amazing that teams like this battle through and survive and advance. no one in their right mind would've picked any of these teams besides Tufts given their past tournament results
Calvin is a surprise? 3 final four appearances in the previous 7 seasons and it is a surprise to see them here?
They come from a weak conference and have an under-represented fan base on here so i understand how it surprising to a lot of people with the inclination to look past flyover country.
Quote from: wingtips2 on November 27, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 23, 2016, 09:03:11 PM
The Tommies will play Friday Dec. 2 in Salem, Va., in the national semifinals against unranked Tufts (Mass.) (13-5-2). Unranked Brandeis (13-5-4) and No. 16-ranked Calvin (22-2) play that day in the other semifinal.
this sentence right here is astonishing in a good way. 2 unranked teams,a #8, and #16 ranking. when was the last time this has happened ? it's amazing that teams like this battle through and survive and advance. no one in their right mind would've picked any of these teams besides Tufts given their past tournament results
Calvin is a surprise? 3 final four appearances in the previous 7 seasons and it is a surprise to see them here?
They come from a weak conference and have an under-represented fan base on here so i understand how it surprising to a lot of people with the inclination to look past flyover country.
i'm not quite sure you read my post right. i literally said it was astonsishing in a good way... and yes calvin is a surprise they haven't had the best of seasons. thy didn't make a lot of noise but now they are which is good like i said. i'm sure i'm not the only one to not pick any of the final four correct. im actually pulling for Calvin this weekend
also the fact that Calvin hasn't made it to the final four since 2011, makes them pretty surprising to me.
uhhhh.... Calvin was in last years Final Four.
Quote from: wingtips2 on November 27, 2016, 10:59:03 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 23, 2016, 09:03:11 PM
The Tommies will play Friday Dec. 2 in Salem, Va., in the national semifinals against unranked Tufts (Mass.) (13-5-2). Unranked Brandeis (13-5-4) and No. 16-ranked Calvin (22-2) play that day in the other semifinal.
this sentence right here is astonishing in a good way. 2 unranked teams,a #8, and #16 ranking. when was the last time this has happened ? it's amazing that teams like this battle through and survive and advance. no one in their right mind would've picked any of these teams besides Tufts given their past tournament results
Calvin is a surprise? 3 final four appearances in the previous 7 seasons and it is a surprise to see them here?
They come from a weak conference and have an under-represented fan base on here so i understand how it surprising to a lot of people with the inclination to look past flyover country.
I guess it's hard to imagine that any of the farmers in "flyover country" could actually play soccer?? ???
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 27, 2016, 07:43:17 PM
uhhhh.... Calvin was in last years Final Four.
my mistake, i didn't really follow much of the season last year. but regardless i never stated that Calvin wasn't good enough or shouldn't belong. he took my comment and just took it in whatever direction he wanted.
I think of the 4 teams left Calvin is the best side based on what I have watched and you can see that in my odds / predictions....However, make no mistake any team can win this thing with 2 solid efforts in 2 games. It will be interesting to see how Brandeis comes out against Calvin in the 1st Half. They went at Amherst without any fear but by the end of the game they were getting gassed IMO. Will they sit and counter 1st Half and reserve energy or do they try to snag the 1st goal of the game? The Tufts v St.Thomas game will also be interesting...St,Thomas from what I have only seen 0on the stream looks like a big workmanlike side just like Tufts. Tufts might have a bit more talent but the game could go either way. If the field is 120 x 80 then Tufts might be able to spread them out but as I have said about 3 times already I really see Tufts weakness being at LB. McMillian to me can be beaten and again I would overflow that flank and go right at him.
Apologies that D3soccer.com's tournament coverage this year has been running behind schedule. Lots of OT at my paying job and family life have made it impossible for me to keep up this year, and it seems all our staff/contributors have less time to devote to the site this year. Anyway, we just published the first of four interviews with the Final Four men's head coaches. Ryan does an excellent job with these.
November 30, 2016
Interview: Jon Lowery, St. Thomas men's coach (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/ryan-harmanis/2016/coach-lowery-interview)
By Ryan Harmanis
Wow. The interviews are always excellent but that may be the best one yet.
In my mind Tufts and Calvin go in as co-faves, with Calvin perhaps by a nose based on Tufts catching a couple of unexpected breaks (UMass issues, home field) and Calvin at least on paper coming through the most difficult overall gauntlet all on the road. We know Brandeis can beat either or both, and then especially for us East Coasters STU is the wild card/longshot. The Tommies have been able to come from behind in the tournament so far but that would not seem to be a winning strategy versus Tufts. Maybe they should look to Kuplic early rather than late. The STU coach clearly has a great pedigree so again we've got four outstanding coaches leading their squads.
Yes but i have been around long enough to see a team that is just "happy" to be in the Final 4 with the rest being gravy. This is where I give Tufts a major edge in this game. I am Nescac biased but this advantage cannot be understated. Tufts will know how to handle the long break off and basically all the intangibles that Tufts will know how to deal with better than St.Thomas. The 1st goal in this game will be key as in most games. I think Tufts will have a real good chance to score 1st and early in the game if St.Thomas is not focused and "ready to go". The longer St.Thomas stays 0-0 or even grabs a quick lead the better chance they will have to advance. However. being down in 3 of their 4 NCAA games does not speak well for a great start to the game. Their determination and focus was in play to come back and win all those games. I do not think it would behoove them to go down in this game as Tufts is a different beast when they go up 1-0. Let us not forget that Tufts has 4 straight shutouts in 4 NCAA games so far against some pretty good competition. This game should be very telling if St.Thomas is "just happy to be in the Final 4" or if they are ready to WIN this whole thing.
And the second of the four interviews with the Final Four men's head coaches is posted . . .
November 30, 2016
Interview: Josh Shapiro, Tufts men's coach (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/ryan-harmanis/2016/coach-shapiro-interview)
By Ryan Harmanis
Tufts 3, St. Thomas 0... Heart says Tommies, head says Jumbos. Scoreline not indicative of the game. This will be a battle in the middle-third and it wouldn't surprise me to see the halftime scoreless. Tommies have to chase it late, Tufts ends up adding some insurance. Instant classic rating 5 of 10.
Brandeis 2, Calvin 2... Heart says Calvin, head says Calvin. The soccer gods can determine this one in PKs... Do you roll with the battle tested team that has a home turf field OR go with the team that has been to the final four several times and knows how to win in big moments? Instant classic rating 8 of 10.
Brandeis is 13-5-4 this year, Calvin is 64-5-4 the last three.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tufts vs Brandeis...
2016: Tufts 1, Brandeis 0 (at Brandeis)
2015: Brandeis 1, Tufts 0 (at Tufts)
2014: Brandeis 2, Tufts 0 (at Brandeis)
2013: Tufts 2, Brandeis 0 (at Tufts)
Leaning Tufts if Brandeis advances
Leaning Calvin in they advance.
The second two coaches interviews . . .
December 1, 2016
Interview: Michael Coven, Brandeis men's coach (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/ryan-harmanis/2016/Coach-Coven-interview)
By Ryan Harmanis
December 1, 2016
Interview: Ryan Souders, Calvin men's coach (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/ryan-harmanis/2016/Coach-Souders-interview)
By Ryan Harmanis
Quote from: Christan Shirk on December 01, 2016, 09:47:38 AM
The second two coaches interviews . . .
December 1, 2016
Interview: Michael Coven, Brandeis men's coach (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/ryan-harmanis/2016/Coach-Coven-interview)
By Ryan Harmanis
December 1, 2016
Interview: Ryan Souders, Calvin men's coach (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/ryan-harmanis/2016/Coach-Souders-interview)
By Ryan Harmanis
Great Stuff on all of the interviews!
UST 2 Tufts 1 OT
Calvin 2 Brandeis 1
Calvin 2 UST 1 2OT
Should be a good weekend
Coven's interview had to be the best...he is a character and a blast from the past...
OH.....I thought the Brandeis / Calvin game was the 1st game at 11am...I guess it is St.Thomas v Tufts up first...
Field looks to be a good size and has to be close to 120x80...
Wind looks to be a factor today...looking like it is going from left to right
Field looks to be a bit narrow
narrow???? Are we watching the same game? maybe the stream has blurred my vision but the field looks to be wide enough to me
St.Thomas GK makes a fatal mistake and Tufts scores on a 40 yard shot that HAS TO BE SAVED,,,,McMillian gets the goal and that is just a HORRIFIC GK ERROR and he has been a disaster all game so far....That shot just cannot be a goal and must be saved....Very poor for St.Thomas GK
Just started watching since half time and St. Thomas seems to be dominating both possession and attacking opportunities. They've already hit the post early in this second half and seem poised to even the game up.
St.Thomas has come out of Halftime very aggressive. First 10 minutes they are all over Tufts and already have hit the post. Tufts needs to relieve pressure.
Some of these non-calls (fouls by Tufts) are getting difficult to understand. There it goes to 2-0
Dagger.......Tufts has just had more composure. St.Thomas GK has been the difference. He is just not had a good game at all and really cost them.
Not over yet. Time for some kuplic magic???
St.Thomas snags on back on a nice goal but Tufts defenders were caught sleeping....Horrible man marking on that goal by Tufts but I just do not think St.Thomas has another goal in them against the experienced Tufts side...We will see
And how the hell that isn't a foul on Calvin for under cutting I'll never understand. Good lord refereeing isn't that difficult!
My company blocks the NCAA feed, so I'm following the live stats. Anyone have any idea why Ocel was subbed out at 5 minutes for Brandeis?
He got undercut on a headball and slammed his head against the turf pretty hard. He looks to be back in now though.
Thanks NEsoccerfan. Figured it was something like that.
Woodhouse has already made 2 HUGE saves, and he has been EXCELLENT all tournament. How this kid didn't even get any recognition on the regional team baffles me.
Miskin from Brandeis just had a GOLDEN opportunity to score from the PK spot wide and hit the post. Brandeis needed that as Calvin has had the bulk of the chances so far this game.
Brandeis just narrowly misses another great opportunity with Espiga coming in a half second late on a sliding tap-in. Brandeis is settling into the game well after Calvin had the better of the first quarter of this game.
Brandeis scores, but gets it called back on a questionable offside call. Brandeis has come out with some serious urgency this second half.
It was offside....however, Brandeis is dominating the 2nd Half...Calvin looks absolutely gassed but Brandeis has had NUMEROUS chances to score and cannot finish...
What was the red card for?
As painful as that RCwas, it was the right play for the defender. Good for him to know when you "have" to commit a foul like that.
If Beard did in fact score that while sitting down that is his second goal this year scored while lying on the ground. He headed the first goal of the year for Calvin against Capital while lying on his back.
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:27:21 PM
As painful as that RC is was was the right play for the defender. Good for him to know when you "have" to commit a foul like that.
If Beard did in fact score that while sitting down that is his second goal this year scored while lying on the ground. He headed the first goal of the year for Calvin against Capital while lying on his back.
DOGSO - the right call and the right foul to commit
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That is an lucky foul, then unlucky red card then an unlucky goal...Brandeis in trouble 15 min left...They deserve to win thin game and must push numbers...Calvin has not looked good today IMO
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.
I don't see how either of these teams could be favored against Tuft's. Well, I was probably one of the few who thought Tuft's would win from the beginning.
Quote from: letsGOswans! on December 02, 2016, 03:44:10 PM
I don't see how either of these teams could be favored against Tuft's. Well, I was probably one of the few who thought Tuft's would win from the beginning.
Each day and game is different....Let's go Jumbos!
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.
I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2016, 03:29:43 PM
That is an lucky foul, then unlucky red card then an unlucky goal...Brandeis in trouble 15 min left...They deserve to win thin game and must push numbers...Calvin has not looked good today IMO
Yes, Brandeis deserved the win.....tough loss.
That GK for Calvin could be the difference tomorrow v Tufts as I do not see Tufts getting a goal or 2 by him plus he looks like he would be very good in PK's..I thought Brnadeis deserved the win but just could not finish. Make no mistake Brandeis might have worn down Calvin enough today for Tufts to beat them tomorrow.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.
I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.
No attempt to play the ball, grabbed the shoulder and pulled the player back. Depends on the temperature of the game - I have seen opportunities where referees have chosen not to give a card - but intentional acts like that will draw a card all day tomorrow in the EPL.
Amidst a crazy week, managed to find some time to watch the game. Thanks to all for your kind wishes regarding my new opportunity.
Calvin is a class side and they are absolutely fantastic on the break. I hadn't seen much of them before the Messiah game a couple of weeks back but they are a classy side who has awesome pace. Hooker and Van Dorn were both dangerous all game and they are two excellent players, although the Knights clearly have a lot of talent throughout their team. Defensively they "bent" as the announcers said but I think that was more because of how well Brandeis was playing rather than Calvin being defensively deficient. Regardless, they held firm.
Great effort by Brandeis, and the game could have very well ended differently with some better finishing and without the red card, which I have to say was admittedly the right call. I think Calvin perhaps shaded general play and earned the win but Woodhouse stood on his head with some incredible saves. Still, a great season, and I couldn't be prouder of the Judges and the way they responded to adversity this year when I had written them off in late October.
Looking forward to watching the final tomorrow. Good luck to both teams - both would be worthy winners. Tufts will certainly be up for it and I wish them luck but I think they will see their biggest test of the year against Calvin. You can bet the Knights are hungry and smell the opportunity to win that elusive national title. Should be a great game.
Now, on to watch the Brandeis women tonight - should be a great contest with fellow UAA side WashU. Roll Deis!
Unfortunate result for Brandeis after dominating most of the second half, but that is football. What a goalmouth scramble after the free kick! Agree with Mr. Right that Calvin appeared to run out of gas. Should be another good one tomorrow, but if Tufts can nip that first goal, I don't see Calvin winning.
Tough fought game for Calvin. They were more dominate in the first half, but Brandis came out strong the second half and Calvin was fortunate to be able to squeeze a goal in. It should be a very good championship game. I think the Knights will prevail though.
Certainly wasn't the prettiest of soccer at times, but a well fought battlebetween both sides. Game could've really gone either way. I give major credit to both goalies for coming up with some big saves.
Quote from: jgroenewold on December 02, 2016, 03:57:15 PM
Certainly wasn't the prettiest of soccer at times, but a well fought battlebetween both sides. Game could've really gone either way. I give major credit to both goalies for coming up with some big saves.
What's your son doing? The Crew have a combine Sunday at Ohio Dominican - would love to see him on our back line!
Tomorrow - if Calvin dictates the game it will be fast and wide - they have ridiculous speed. Tufts has size - if they dictate it will be a "half-court" game and they will most likely cash-in on a set piece.
@Domino1195. I'm actually his older brother. He's playing pro out in Australia.
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 04:01:44 PM
Quote from: jgroenewold on December 02, 2016, 03:57:15 PM
Certainly wasn't the prettiest of soccer at times, but a well fought battlebetween both sides. Game could've really gone either way. I give major credit to both goalies for coming up with some big saves.
What's your son doing? The Crew have a combine Sunday at Ohio Dominican - would love to see him on our back line!
Tomorrow - if Calvin dictates the game it will be fast and wide - they have ridiculous speed. Tufts has size - if they dictate it will be a "half-court" game and they will most likely cash-in on a set piece.
Excellent game today, as Calvin had control for the majority of the first half, however, Brandeis was sitting deep and looking to play the ball over the top. Calvin was able to exemplify its strong wing play a precision passing. The second half was a different story, Brandeis adjusted and decided to press higher causing trouble for Calvins back line, who looked winded with about 23 mins to play in the second half. Was the offsides called because Viera got a touch on the ball before Lynch put it in the back of the net?
As for the Calvin vs Tufts matchup, I honestly believe Calvin had a tough time with the physicality of Brandeis and expect Tufts to play a physical game as well tomorrow breaking down Calvin. Tufts wins 2-1.
Don't really understand the need to declare who was "deserving" after games. That's so subjective and so many things happen during a game that could change what happens after that. Calvin easily could have been up 2-0 after 20-25 minutes today. Then Brandeis has them under intense pressure for large parts of the 2nd half. I think Brandeis' goal maybe should have counted. I'm not sure I even understand the offsides call but I'm also not convinced that Vieira really got a touch on the ball. Let's say Brandeis gets that goal. Calvin was down in the 2nd half to Messiah. They were 0-0 at the half with F&M, F&M goes up 1-0 and then Calvin goes up 4-1. I agree that Calvin looked exhausted which I had not seen before, and I agree that Tufts will be very physical with Calvin as well. The irony again is that we hear so much about how Tufts and Brandeis love to play the ball on the ground and play real soccer, but their physicality is what is shining through. Woodhouse was phenomenal. Jastremzski played the best game I've ever seen him play. Tough break with Ocel getting injured very early and probably never recovering. Vieira was a beast as usual. Tremendous showing for Brandeis and they very easily could have advanced and would have had as agood or better chance against Tufts tomorrow as Calvin will. That said, underestimate Calvin at your own risk. They could have lost 1st round to a very good ONU team. CMU got an unlucky break on a Calvin goal and then were extremely close to equalizing but Van Ryn stood on his head. Then Messiah at Messiah, including falling behind. Some of the these 1 goal games, OT games, games that goes to PKs could have turned on any number of forgotten plays. Sometimes there is just a worthy survivor instead of who "deserved it more." It's also very easy when you're on the losing side of one of these games to forget the games before when you were very fortunate to get the bounce and advance.
Like I suggested, Brandeis easily could have won the national title. Tufts would have had no psychological edge against them. That said, we've got a classic final with two teams that have an aura of "we're not going to lose." Ever since they went up 1-0 on Rowan Tufts has had that feeling of destiny. Just amazing for a team that has not been able to win even a single game in the NESCAC tournament for at least the past 3 years, even with home field, and now it seems like they would win the next 30 games in a row if they kept playing another few months. Calvin is now something like 46-3 over the past two years. Beats Messiah at Messiah. Survives a very highly motivated and Brandeis side. Evoking a sense that they do indeed play for something larger than themselves. We've also got two of the very best (maybe the best) coaches in D3 at understanding the psychology of their teams and creating maximum positivity. A couple of factors to note. Noyola for Calvin, the unsung but outstanding CB, has not played since the Messiah game. That's a big deal. He's not a huge kid but he plays big, and there is a hint of Tufts just being too big and physical for the Knights. Can Vegter hold up as the one defender who can physically and athletically match up with everything Tufts will throw at them? At any rate, we have the makings of a really great battle when you can't picture either team not winning.
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:52:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.
I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.
No attempt to play the ball, grabbed the shoulder and pulled the player back. Depends on the temperature of the game - I have seen opportunities where referees have chosen not to give a card - but intentional acts like that will draw a card all day tomorrow in the EPL.
Didn't see the play but sounds tactical anyways, so YC 100% anywhere else on the pitch
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.
I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.
that was 10000% a foul and a red card haha you can't even
argue it he was in on goal
Spurs' Walker takes a foot to the face - standing fully erect - lucky not to have been blinded - cut on his eyebrow. Dangerous play - no card. Not going to make Chicago or Desai feel better - but poor refereeing sickens me. Just do your job.
Watching Stark's undercut on the Brandeis player again: yellow card foul on him - could have been worse. Will not be surprised to learn the Brandeis player is concussed. Yet the foul was called against Brandeis. Hoping officiating plays no part in today's final.
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 03, 2016, 11:06:29 AM
Spurs' Walker takes a foot to the face - standing fully erect - lucky not to have been blinded - cut on his eyebrow. Dangerous play - no card. Not going to make Chicago or Desai feel better - but poor refereeing sickens me. Just do your job.
Watching Stark's undercut on the Brandeis player again: yellow card foul on him - could have been worse. Will not be surprised to learn the Brandeis player is concussed. Yet the foul was called against Brandeis. Hoping officiating plays no part in today's final.
I have no dog in the fight, but I watched that play several times and the Brandeis player clearly jumped over the back of the Calvin Player. the right call was made.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on December 02, 2016, 10:23:18 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:47:58 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 03:30:48 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 02, 2016, 03:29:05 PM
Last man foul on a breakaway. It would not have even been a yellow in any other situation, but since he was the last man, it was probably the right call. What a shame, Brandeis was absolutely dominating Calvin all second half, but just failed to finish over and over.
That would have been a professional foul YC every day of the week.
I respectfully disagree. If that foul happened in the middle of the park it would not have been a YC ANY day of the week. ESPECIALLY at the professional level.
that was 10000% a foul and a red card haha you can't even
argue it he was in on goal
I was not arguing against either of those. Check out my original post: I called it a "last-man
foul" and said that the red card was "probably the right call". As a former player and current referee, my only point was that it might not have been a card - even a yellow - in a different situation. But even that is (obviously) open for interpretation.
Quote from: KICKIN95 on December 03, 2016, 11:09:31 AM
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 03, 2016, 11:06:29 AM
Spurs' Walker takes a foot to the face - standing fully erect - lucky not to have been blinded - cut on his eyebrow. Dangerous play - no card. Not going to make Chicago or Desai feel better - but poor refereeing sickens me. Just do your job.
Watching Stark's undercut on the Brandeis player again: yellow card foul on him - could have been worse. Will not be surprised to learn the Brandeis player is concussed. Yet the foul was called against Brandeis. Hoping officiating plays no part in today's final.
I have no dog in the fight, but I watched that play several times and the Brandeis player clearly jumped over the back of the Calvin Player. the right call was made.
Stark backs in under the space of the Brandeis player, who has his eyes on the ball and leaps up to play it. Stark's never looks at the ball - what's his intent? This type of foul usually goes unnoticed and missed too often. In my pregame discussion with captains I have three things I always warn against: studs-up challenges, fouling the keeper and undercutting players in the air. College keeper undercut and landing in his neck - something you don't forget.
Looks to me that Calvin may get a couple.
Quote from: 4samuy on December 03, 2016, 02:06:16 PM
Looks to me that Calvin may get a couple.
Problem for Calvin is that yesterday they looked like getting a couple in the first half but didn't and then were outplayed (and looking tired) in the second half and fortunate not to have gone down a goal and fortunate on their goal. How will the second half play out today for Calvin, we'll see.
Calvin definitely has control of the game. Tufts seems to be looking for the long ball, and physical play.
Thoughts on yesterday's games:
Tufts 2 - St. Thomas 1
Played out about as I expected. Tufts carried more of the play in the first half, but few scoring chances for either team. Game changed dramatically after the Tufts goal. Speculative shot - a complete waste 9 times out of 10 - but the wind, the sun, and perhaps some nerves led to the GK error and a gifted 1-0 lead for Tufts. St. Thomas reacted well at the end of the 1st half and the start of the second, but you can't make those kinds of mistakes against a team that punishes them like Tufts.
St. Thomas really needed to get back to even terms, as a two-goal deficit was going to be tough to overcome. The second Tufts goal was a killer. St. Thomas did a great job to get back into the game, and on the day there wasn't much between the two teams. But that was the fourth time in five NCAA games St. Thomas fell behind, and eventually it's too much to overcome.
Calvin 1 - Brandeis 0
Game started at a frantic pace, with Calvin carrying the play through midfield. Brandeis made what I viewed as a conscious decision to play more direct and on the counter early on, and they were able to get into dangerous positions doing so. But Calvin's midfield was bossing things, and that let them control territory and create some good chances. Brandeis GK was forced to make a couple of good saves, but in the last 15 minutes of the half the game began to turn. Brandeis was finding more midfield gaps, and should have taken the lead on a beautiful counter. A great back-post run led to a delayed midfield run, and the Brandeis player took a really good first touch to leave him alone with the GK on his line. But he hit the post.
Second half, Brandeis played more on the floor, and Calvin looked tired really early. Brandeis was dominating, frankly, but you need to turn that control into goals. They did, but it was called back for offsides - more on that in a moment. Then a great break from Calvin leads to a foul just outside the 18 and a straight red for the Brandeis CB. The issue was compounded when Brandeis GK gave up a rebound and Calvin punched it in on a goalmouth scrum. Brandeis put on some final pressure and had one great shot where Van Ryn made a good save, but it was too much playing a man down.
I thought Brandeis was marginally the better side, but Calvin made enough chances that it was going to come down to who finished. The difference was Brandeis's inability to score, Calvin knocking one in, and a series of close calls:
(1) I thought the Brandeis goal probably should have stood. I'm assuming that the goalscorer was offside if the Brandeis player got a flick on it. But we (watching online) had a better angle than the linesman - who was on the far side and screened by multiple players - and I was not confident at all that it was the Brandeis player, rather than the Calvin defender (or no one at all), who touched the ball. To me, it's usually telling when no defenders think it's offsides, and no Calvin players reacted until after they saw the linesman's flag. A 50-50 call at best.
(2) The red card was "soft," but the right call. Classic swim move to pull a guy back and get on the right side of him, and in that position, with the Calvin player bearing in on goal, that's a red in most professional leagues. That's a foul that would not be a yellow unless it's to stop a counter-attack. You usually see attacking players commit it when defenders are trying to shield a ball out of bounds.
My only gripe is not at all with this official, but with D-III refereeing in general. That foul happens on a regular basis and this was one of the very few (if ever) times I've seen a red given. My personal point of reference: in 2014 OWU had breakaways in back-to-back tournament games (against Kenyon and Christopher Newport) and a defender football-tackled a player from behind. Both times the referee gave a penalty, but only a yellow card. There needs to be consistency on these calls. Brandeis was more upset, even though it was the right call, because referees refuse to make that call on a regular basis.
(3) I thought the ref could have called a foul on Calvin's goal. The GK couldn't hold the free kick, but a Calvin player came flying in for the finish, missed the ball, and ran into the Brandeis GK. That kept him from having any chance to get back to the ball. Not a blatant foul, by any means, but if you're Brandeis I think you're unlucky to see your goal called back while Calvin's goal stood.
None of these calls were wrong, by any means. They fall into the category of "breaks," and Calvin got a few more of them. Calvin's defense did a nice job bending but not breaking. I think they need to make the periods when they're on top of the game count a little more, because they were in total control for a long period in the first half but didn't create enough clear chances. They'll need to score during those periods during the game today.
EDIT: In my opinion, 100% a foul on Stark on the play early on that left Ocel shaken up. Ocel was attacking the ball, and Stark was not attempting to play it or even trying to hold off Ocel. He simply undercut him. Smaller players do this on a regular basis, and they get more calls than they should. If they're trying to shield the guy going for the ball and he goes over the top, sure, foul on him, but if they wait until the other guy jumps and then back into him, that's a foul - and a dangerous one. Not sure how much impact it truly had on the game, but that was just a bad call.
Contrary to what many predicted, I don't think that Tufts' physicality has affected Calvin. Calvin definitely had more of the ball and more of the chances. That said, aside from one good save from point-blank range, Greenwood has not had a whole lot to do, so it remains to be seen if Calvin can cash in or if they will be stymied offensively like they were for 70+ minutes yesterday. I think Tufts will try to keep the game tight and nick a goal, because they seem more likely to get something out of nothing than does Calvin - although I could well be wrong.
The one observation that I have is that Tufts' midfield has had trouble possessing the ball. I think Zach Halliday has done a great job but I am not totally sold on the other Tufts CMs. Rojas is promising but I think he is still figuring things out - I think Tasker is Tufts' best freshman.
Having been a longtime critic of Sullivan, I am starting to see what he brings - he is not as cerebral or composed as Williams was, but he's definitely rugged and tenacious, and while I personally would rather have the former traits than the latter in my CB "enforcer" he has done a solid job for the most part.
A little disappointed in the first half. Both teams started well, with Tufts playing more vertical and Calvin doing a nice job through the middle. Calvin controlled the play, but didn't create much except for the Hooker shot from point-blank range where Greenwood was in great position. Thank goodness that didn't go in, as it came on a Calvin counterattack where the ref wasn't paying attention and blocked a Tufts pass right to Calvin, which led to the whole opportunity.
As FW mentioned, this played out much like yesterday's first half for Calvin. They controlled the midfield, but haven't been able to make the final ball count. They're hitting cross after cross and cutback after cutback but Tufts is doing a nice job. Calvin's wingers started to get the measure of the Tufts outside backs later on in the half. That'll be a key matchup, because they're Calvin's best route to scoring outside of a free kick.
The Tufts attacking players have been able to cause problems for Calvin's back line, but they haven't gotten the ball up there with numbers often enough. Calvin's midfield is doing a really nice job preventing the Jumbos from stringing anything through the middle.
This game is begging for a goal. Or at least I'm begging for one.
IMO the Ocel-Stark play could have gone either way. I leaned towards thinking Stark fouled but I think if you see that play 10 times at least go for Stark. Tufts seems to be punishing Stark for it today, just clobbering him repeatedly and forcing him to the bench early, so I think the physicality has made a difference.
Last year Barnes for OWU got no card at all, not even yellow for taking out Glassman from well behind with Glassman clearly in all alone with the GK. The ref called the foul for a PK, so even if you didn't think it was a foul the ref called it (and I have a 25 frame slo-mo that shows he cleaned out five ways to Sunday).
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 02:31:51 PM
A little disappointed in the first half. Both teams started well, with Tufts playing more vertical and Calvin doing a nice job through the middle. Calvin controlled the play, but didn't create much except for the Hooker shot from point-blank range where Greenwood was in great position. Thank goodness that didn't go in, as it came on a Calvin counterattack where the ref wasn't paying attention and blocked a Tufts pass right to Calvin, which led to the whole opportunity.
As FW mentioned, this played out much like yesterday's first half for Calvin. They controlled the midfield, but haven't been able to make the final ball count. They're hitting cross after cross and cutback after cutback but Tufts is doing a nice job. Calvin's wingers started to get the measure of the Tufts outside backs later on in the half. That'll be a key matchup, because they're Calvin's best route to scoring outside of a free kick.
The Tufts attacking players have been able to cause problems for Calvin's back line, but they haven't gotten the ball up there with numbers often enough. Calvin's midfield is doing a really nice job preventing the Jumbos from stringing anything through the middle.
This game is begging for a goal. Or at least I'm begging for one.
Regarding style of play, this is not the same Tufts team as the last few years. They play a little differently and maybe not as pretty, but the are very gritty....
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 02:31:51 PM
It came on a Calvin counterattack where the ref wasn't paying attention and blocked a Tufts pass right to Calvin, which led to the whole opportunity.
That's the third time in this Final 4 that the ref has interfered with a ball in open play: yesterday's Brandeis-Calvin men's matchup and Brandeis-WashU women's matchup saw the same thing happen.
On another note, pretty interesting that Becherano, whom I think was far less celebrated that Majumder/Majumber/Majumbder (a joke about the consistently incorrect spelling of his name on these boards ;) ), gets All-American this year, something Majumder didn't do last year when he was firing on all cylinders. Becherano deserved it this year IMHO and I certainly think Majumder would have been a deserved selection, but still interesting nonetheless how an (relatively speaking) unheralded player ended up getting the accolades.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2016, 02:36:06 PM
Last year Barnes for OWU got no card at all, not even yellow for taking out Glassman from well behind with Glassman clearly in all alone with the GK. The ref called the foul for a PK, so even if you didn't think it was a foul the ref called it (and I have a 25 frame slo-mo that shows he cleaned out five ways to Sunday).
I'm assuming that means you agree with the general point, that referees often fail to give red cards for those calls?
Boy does this kid Isky Van Doorne have an engine.
Quote from: letsGOswans! on December 03, 2016, 03:11:45 PM
Boy does this kid Isky Van Doorne have an engine.
He really does. Feels like every dangerous attack flows through him.
What a save by Greenwood. Great hit, did well to push it over, although it was somewhat central. Still, important.
Line of the game from the announcer: "The midfield has been a quagmire."
That Calvin keeper has got a real air of confidence and control about him
Majumder is causing some major problems for Calvin's back line right now. Almost turned his guy with 1:30 left there, Calvin player desperately kicks out for a corner, which the ref and linesman give as a goal kick.
Overtime.
If I'm Calvin, I need my big guys to step up. Van Doorne's been their best player, but Stark and Hooker not at their best. Adams and Witte have been effective, but Stark's final ball is better if he can get in position on the wing.
Calvin's never going to score if they commit 2-3 guys to the box on the attack. Tough to score on a 2 v 8.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on December 03, 2016, 03:22:50 PM
Calvin's never going to score if they commit 2-3 guys to the box on the attack. Tough to score on a 2 v 8.
Exactly. They're getting crosses in, but Tufts defense in good position and not enough Calvin attacking players to get on the end of it.
These teams are gassed. Would love to see someone win it with a moment of brilliance, but looks like it might come down to which team makes a mistake. Or penalties.
Calvin is much more talented, but they need to convert and finish the game.
Wow! So Tufts wins it for the second time in three years. Natty goes to NESCAC for third year in a row.
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 03:38:04 PM
Calvin is much more talented, but they need to convert and finish the game.
Not this game.....Congrats to the gritty Jumbos.....The Jumbos depth was the key to their championship....
Could have told you Tufts would score the game winner off a set piece. Well done to the Jumbos. Shapiro is the best coach in D3 soccer. He knows he doesn't have a stand out player and that defense wins championships. Tufts just does not give up goals or even good opportunities. Crazy to think this is his second time doing this in the last 3 years! There is no chance anyone can think that this Jumbos team is better than the 2014 team in any aspect of the game.
Oh well doesn't matter, well done!
Congrats to the seniors who have now won 2 NCAA championships. That is remarkable!
Tough loss for the Knights but a well executed corner by Tufts makes the Jumbos National Champs once again. Either team was a deserving champion. Kudos to Dave McHugh and Jeff Burns for providing an exceptionally well done broadcast. An easy to listen to pair of announcers who know the sport and were a pleasure to listen to.
Congrats to the Jumbos. If I am correct, Tufts is the first NESCAC side to win the NCAA title more than once, as I believe Amherst, Midd., and Williams have one each.
Quote from: Domino1195 on December 02, 2016, 04:01:44 PM
Quote from: jgroenewold on December 02, 2016, 03:57:15 PM
Certainly wasn't the prettiest of soccer at times, but a well fought battlebetween both sides. Game could've really gone either way. I give major credit to both goalies for coming up with some big saves.
What's your son doing? The Crew have a combine Sunday at Ohio Dominican - would love to see him on our back line!
Tomorrow - if Calvin dictates the game it will be fast and wide - they have ridiculous speed. Tufts has size - if they dictate it will be a "half-court" game and they will most likely cash-in on a set piece.
Well we got both - Calvin effective getting the ball wide and using their speed and attacking skills; Tufts playing very physical but using their size on the set piece fit the winner. Tufts' Sullivan might consider rugby or pointy-ball in his future.
Heartbreak. Runners-up 3 of the last 8 years. It's so hard just to get to the championship game. One of these years..... :'( :'(
Thank you to the Calvin seniors.
A few more observations:
Calvin got behind Tufts plenty of times but they just were not committing enough numbers forward as others said. They should have had people in the box when their wingers drove byline to cut it back.
3 NCAA championships in a row for NESCAC teams. Lol that only 2 teams got bids this year. I PROMISE you that bowdoin and williams would have at least got to the second week of competition.
Calvin lacked quality on their left wing and striker position. Is that their normal striker? He got no change from Sullivan or Coleman.
Can't help but feel sorry for Messiah. I do think they were the best team this year.
Quote from: letsGOswans! on December 03, 2016, 03:49:04 PM
Could have told you Tufts would score the game winner off a set piece. Well done to the Jumbos. Shapiro is the best coach in D3 soccer. He knows he doesn't have a stand out player and that defense wins championships. Tufts just does not give up goals or even good opportunities. Crazy to think this is his second time doing this in the last 3 years! There is no chance anyone can think that this Jumbos team is better than the 2014 team in any aspect of the game.
Oh well doesn't matter, well done!
Congrats to the seniors who have now won 2 NCAA championships. That is remarkable!
Congrats to Shapiro! I don't like to compare the championship teams. Each is different and deserves credit. They had different styles... grit vs. extreme talent... both had great defense... the key and common denominator.. also, the NESCAC deserves some credit, given its highly competitive nature. Teams are battle tested all year... 3 champions in three years....
Congratulations to Tufts on the victory. Calvin was clearly the more skilled and technical team, but Tufts did not break and got a gritty win buy imposing physical play and gutted out a gritty win. Soccer is a game that doesn't always reward the most skilled team if you can't put together successful scoring combinations in the front third.
Interestingly enough, despite not having as star-studded of a cast as the 2014 side, Tufts does graduate a significant amount of talent up the spine: Greenwood, Sullivan, Zach Halliday, Lawson, Majumder, and Becherano. However, they do have some good players coming back, so I'd imagine they'll be strong next year as well.
Fun fact: that was Kulscar's first career goal.
Calvin deserved to win. Brutal loss.
Seriously, congrats to you damn Tufts fans. Too big, too much depth, too talented and athletic. Shapiro is a great coach but also a great recruiter. He just kept bringing in players off the bench, including players who had not played at all until rather late in the 2nd half. Zinner scored two years ago in the first national title semi game and didn't get in until late. He made a difference. Tasker was huge on the left side, as was the kid from Hawaii. Majumder pressured Calvin in a different, threatening way....such a wiry, slippery, strong and skilled player. Just player and after player. Kulscar scores....seems like they have about 10 guys just like him. Tufts back line won almost every header and usually with a message. Sent a message to Stark in the first 5 minutes that he was going nowhere today. Greenwood is just a pure winner. I give Shapiro credit for having some sense of when to go to certain guys even if they had not been in the rotation. Did Jameson even play in the two Sectional games at Tufts?
Tip of the hat to Vegter who is a stud. Van Dorne is superb but thought he also got tired.
Congrats to Tufts! Well done. I've read a good amount about Majumber on these boards, but this was the first time I've seen him play. Since I haven't seen him I'm hoping someone can give some insight on him. It seemed to me that there were many more players on the pitch (on both sides) that had more of an impact on the game. I would enjoy hearing anyone's thoughts.
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 04:00:04 PM
Congratulations to Tufts on the victory. Calvin was clearly the more skilled and technical team, but Tufts did not break and got a gritty win buy imposing physical play and gutted out a gritty win. Soccer is a game that doesn't always reward the most skilled team if you can't put together successful scoring combinations in the front third.
The Calvin team that beat Messiah was the more technical team...This weekends Calvin side did not look the same team...They looked gassed and unable to deal with physical play. I am nor sure where u are seeing they are a "way" more technical side today...The interesting thing is I remember remarking in that Messiah game how dit Calvin looked and how Messiah looked gassed...Not sure how that changed in 2 weeks...Shapiro win his 2nd in 3 years and Nescac their 3rd in a row...You would have to figure if Shapiro is to move on back to D1 this would be the time to do it...Mid 40's, Former D1 assistant at Georgetown, etc etc...IDK maybe he is happy in Boston...To think Ralph Ferrigno had this Tufts team as the absolute doormat in Nescac only 6-7 years ago.Amazing what a new coach can bring....Williams and Amherst have had more talented sides in the past but could never get 2 NCAA's and Tufts has so that is a big +...I just did not see this Tufts side anywhere near winning this title this year and didnt even think they would get out of the regular season...Shapiro recruits "heart" almost over talent but I can tell you atleast 4 of Tufts starters were passsed by by Williams and Amherst and he turns them into players...Hats off
Quote from: 4samuy on December 03, 2016, 04:07:28 PM
Congrats to Tufts! Well done. I've read a good amount about Majumber on these boards, but this was the first time I've seen him play. Since I haven't seen him I'm hoping someone can give some insight on him. It seemed to me that there many more players on the pitch (on both sides) that hamper of impact on the game. I would enjoy hearing anyone's thoughts.
He is a very good player - physical, fast, and skilled. Can play both up top and out wide. However I do think he was a bit overhyped at the start of last year because, after graduating a ton of offense of talent from the 2014 team, he was the one scoring most of the goals earlier in the year. Perhaps some of that sentiment carried over into this year. He did have a good year last year but after a flying start he went quiet towards the end of last year, although he did score 2 goals in the tournament against Kenyon, and got a few big ones this year after being out injured, so he is definitely a clutch player. That said, if it sounds like he is overhyped, that is perhaps our own fault. ;)
Quote from: 4samuy on December 03, 2016, 04:07:28 PM
Congrats to Tufts! Well done. I've read a good amount about Majumber on these boards, but this was the first time I've seen him play. Since I haven't seen him I'm hoping someone can give some insight on him. It seemed to me that there were many more players on the pitch (on both sides) that had more of an impact on the game. I would enjoy hearing anyone's thoughts.
He was a local Williamstown kid that Russo desperately wanted at Williams. His father is a Williams professor and the kid just wanted to get out of town...Harvard took a look at him and were not interested , he ends up at Tufts and Russo calls Shapiro to tell him "hey give this kid a chance as he is a stud"...He went under the radar because he did not play club soccer I believe
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 03, 2016, 04:10:25 PM
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 04:00:04 PM
Congratulations to Tufts on the victory. Calvin was clearly the more skilled and technical team, but Tufts did not break and got a gritty win buy imposing physical play and gutted out a gritty win. Soccer is a game that doesn't always reward the most skilled team if you can't put together successful scoring combinations in the front third.
The Calvin team that beat Messiah was the more technical team...This weekends Calvin side did not look the same team...They looked gassed and unable to deal with physical play. I am nor sure where u are seeing they are a "way" more technical side today...The interesting thing is I remember remarking in that Messiah game how dit Calvin looked and how Messiah looked gassed...Not sure how that changed in 2 weeks...Shapiro win his 2nd in 3 years and Nescac their 3rd in a row...You would have to figure if Shapiro is to move on back to D1 this would be the time to do it...Mid 40's, Former D1 assistant at Georgetown, etc etc...IDK maybe he is happy in Boston...To think Ralph Ferrigno had this Tufts team as the absolute doormat in Nescac only 6-7 years ago.Amazing what a new coach can bring....Williams and Amherst have had more talented sides in the past but could never get 2 NCAA's and Tufts has so that is a big +...I just did not see this Tufts side anywhere near winning this title this year and didnt even think they would get out of the regular season...Shapiro recruits "heart" almost over talent but I can tell you atleast 4 of Tufts starters were passsed by by Williams and Amherst and he turns them into players...Hats off
Yep, thought this was a semi rebuilding year, especially after the slow start.... but the team found its identity....
I wouldn't compare the two Tufts teams either. Champions in their own right. I do think this year's edition might overwhelm the other one. The amount of depth and overall talent are impressive.
Majumder in fairness is probably just now getting into top form. He is good because he is dangerous and immediately creates anxiety for the other team. Like I said earlier, he's wiry, slippery, strong and skilled. Good soccer IQ with a good feel for big moments and obviously a winner. He made a difference in this game today.
To echo some of your points, I think that this year's team has a crazy amount of depth. So while the 2014 team had bigger names, and perhaps more talent in the first 11, this year's team may just have had more aggregate talent, as there is very little drop off once you look at the bench.
Quote from: blooter442 on December 03, 2016, 04:22:30 PM
To echo some of your points, I think that this year's team has a crazy amount of depth. So while the 2014 team had bigger names, and perhaps more talent in the first 11, this year's team may just have had more aggregate talent, as there is very little drop off once you look at the bench.
Agreed. Scary to think who they have in their soph and especially frosh classes. Players who will become household names in the NESCAC but who also played solid and often key roles today. Shapiro clearly has some kind of formula going and success will breed success.
I thought Majumder was very talented. He is a tough smart player. Sullivan on the other hand is a hack and tight officiating would make him a liability to his team.
Quote from: blooter442 on December 03, 2016, 04:22:30 PM
To echo some of your points, I think that this year's team has a crazy amount of depth. So while the 2014 team had bigger names, and perhaps more talent in the first 11, this year's team may just have had more aggregate talent, as there is very little drop off once you look at the bench.
BLOOOOTS!........you are an astute futol fan. Like I said above, depth (and defense) were the key to this team..... also not mentioned the past few games, Becherano deserves credit also....he stepped up out of nowhere..... agree on the 2014 starters. Both teams had great defense...and the same goalie
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 02:52:49 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2016, 02:36:06 PM
Last year Barnes for OWU got no card at all, not even yellow for taking out Glassman from well behind with Glassman clearly in all alone with the GK. The ref called the foul for a PK, so even if you didn't think it was a foul the ref called it (and I have a 25 frame slo-mo that shows he cleaned out five ways to Sunday).
I'm assuming that means you agree with the general point, that referees often fail to give red cards for those calls?
I do agree, although I don't think that made a big difference in the game. Calvin scored right away and there were 15 minutes left. Not ideal for Brandeis for sure, but IMO not nearly as big as Ocel getting injured early and the goal taken away.
As for the other thing, I'm truly interested in the psychology of partisanship. We remember what naturally favors our own teams. I didn't think twice about Kenyon beating Lynchburg in OT after the game or how that might have gone the other way. I of course thought a lot about it after the Tufts game while I'm sure Tufts fans believe the game was hardly ever in doubt or just plain moved on with little thought at all. I never spent an extra second thinking about Kenyon advancing on PKs versus Thomas More two years ago. The "who deserves what" comments -- from all of us, me included -- almost without fail reflect our love for our own teams. There are so many things, some rather arbitrary, that impact how things play out. Would Tufts have beaten Haverford at Haverford? Maybe. Could anyone have anticipated Tufts having two home games at a critical stage thrown in its lap when they came in at 9-5-2? No. What if PS-Behrend beat OWU in OT in 2014 or Calvin won the PKs? What if Amherst had advanced instead of Brandeis? What if Brandeis had been in the final today? What if Chicago was there instead of St Thomas, or Messiah instead of Calvin? In the end, in terms of today, we got two legit teams who had no thought that they could lose and that played out into a 2nd OT.
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 04:25:58 PM
I thought Majumder was very talented. He is a tough smart player. Sullivan on the other hand is a hack and tight officiating would make him a liability to his team.
Sullivan is the quintessential Nescac player...Very athletic and tough an big...Calvin wore down because of the physical play of Tufts and quite frankly Brandeis...They just were not used to it...
I hear a lot from the supporters of the NESCAC on this forum and have figured they would be a skill conference that play control soccer. But from what I saw, that was not the case. They rely on physicality and to certain extent kick and run. The teams I see in other parts of the country play a better brand of soccer. I think it is very ironic how little respect is given to Calvin coming into the tournament season.
One secret NESCAC players and coaches have learned is that there is plenty of opportunity in college soccer to apply the free hit, especially the afters. Sullivan is an example of one who has figured that out. He's not alone, by any means, but we all saw him today, so he's an easy one to spotlight today. Those hits wear opponents down, especially players from teams who are not used to the rough and tumble--perhaps the players from teams who play pretty soccer against other teams who play pretty soccer. While NESCAC teams have the experience of playing in a physical league, each of the top teams in the league also have players who know how to play the pretty, nifty, creative flair brand that we all appreciate. Mixing the two blends an excitingly dangerous cocktail that leads to championships. Congrats to Tufts.
Well said and a good analysis jumpforjoy.
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 05:13:36 PM
I hear a lot from the supporters of the NESCAC on this forum and have figured they would be a skill conference that play control soccer. But from what I saw, that was not the case. They rely on physicality and to certain extent kick and run. The teams I see in other parts of the country play a better brand of soccer. I think it is very ironic how little respect is given to Calvin coming into the tournament season.
You're in a NESCAC-centric site and they just won their 3rd national title in a row. Calvin clearly is among the top handful of elite D3 programs. They have an absolutely stud coach. I think many knowledgeable soccer folks know all that. I thought they were going to win but then again I couldn't picture how Tufts was going to lose. While the pace was not as frenetic (or in some ways as exciting) as the Calvin-Brandeis tilt, it was a worthy national title battle. When a game goes into double OT obviously either team could have won. Hopefully most now understand a bit more about how good Calvin's program is. NESCAC plays high level D3 soccer and no other conference or region can compete with the amount of interest. There are people here who care what happens in the Colby-Bates finale in a bottom of the table clash whereas few here could even name the bottom of the table teams in the MIAC. It
is a bit annoying when NESCACers talk about how "pretty" they play, but the recent success speaks for itself.
The NJAC and the UAA get a decent amount of press, and not coincidentally often as as offshoot of NESCAC interest. Then there are schools like Messiah, OWU and Kenyon who have had a few (in Messiah's case) or 1 or 2 prominent, heavily involved and loyal supporters here but I doubt we will ever see the amount of overall interest in any conference or team to rival the NESCAC.
Regarding Tufts' depth here's another thing that really doesn't get mentioned. Not only does the depth impact games like today, but imagine the training advantage. Tufts literally can have two virtually equal teams of 11 go against each other in practice. Imagine Majumder as one of the players on your SECOND 11. And also kids like Zinner who started for the 2014 team and then the boatload of talented frosh.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on December 03, 2016, 05:30:01 PM
One secret NESCAC players and coaches have learned is that there is plenty of opportunity in college soccer to apply the free hit, especially the afters. Sullivan is an example of one who has figured that out. He's not alone, by any means, but we all saw him today, so he's an easy one to spotlight today. Those hits wear opponents down, especially players from teams who are not used to the rough and tumble--perhaps the players from teams who play pretty soccer against other teams who play pretty soccer. While NESCAC teams have the experience of playing in a physical league, each of the top teams in the league also have players who know how to play the pretty, nifty, creative flair brand that we all appreciate. Mixing the two blends an excitingly dangerous cocktail that leads to championships. Congrats to Tufts.
Yes, well said. Sullivan is right on the edge and maybe sometimes over. Probably time to give Coleman some credit too. Virtually no mistakes from him. Does seem Tufts made a very conscious decision to be extra physical today, either because thinking Calvin wouldn't like it or would wear down because of fatigue from the Brandeis battle, or some of both...but it was obvious and not just Sullivan as they went out of their way early and especially with Stark to let Calvin "feel them," so to speak.
Side note: Weatherbie was huge for Tufts the past two weekends as well.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2016, 04:39:12 PM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 02:52:49 PM
I'm assuming that means you agree with the general point, that referees often fail to give red cards for those calls?
I do agree, although I don't think that made a big difference in the game. Calvin scored right away and there were 15 minutes left. Not ideal for Brandeis for sure, but IMO not nearly as big as Ocel getting injured early and the goal taken away.
As for the other thing, I'm truly interested in the psychology of partisanship. We remember what naturally favors our own teams.
I get what you're saying. I'm sure I remember those two specific plays because they involved "my" team, but I don't know how much that matters. Those were just examples of a specific type of foul - player breaks in behind the defense, guy pulls him down from behind - where the referee should have given a red card but didn't. The same thing happened yesterday and he did red card him, so apt comparison. I'd guess those type of red-cardable offenses happen all the time on various types of plays. (As for the one you mentioned, I think that was a different type of foul than one where a ball is played in behind and he's pulled down, so I wouldn't consider it the same type of play, and thus not a direct comparison. But the same principle holds for any instance where the foul, by the book, deserves red.)
Anyway, the overall premise for the Brandeis-Calvin post was that, in tight games, there are key moments that tilt the game one way or the other. You see it happen when one team misses a glaring opportunity, and the other scores right away. (Think today's Man City/Chelsea game. Man City is up 1-0, misses an open net from 3 yards out, a few minutes later Chelsea draws even, and Chelsea goes on to win 3-1). When you think back on those games, you see inflection points, and I thought those three points where the biggest ones. Considering how much Brandeis was in control in the second half, I think it's fair to say the red card was a game-changing moment - doubly so once Calvin scored on the ensuing free kick. And I do think playing a man down when you desperately need a goal is a huge deal.
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 05:13:36 PM
I hear a lot from the supporters of the NESCAC on this forum and have figured they would be a skill conference that play control soccer. But from what I saw, that was not the case. They rely on physicality and to certain extent kick and run. The teams I see in other parts of the country play a better brand of soccer. I think it is very ironic how little respect is given to Calvin coming into the tournament season.
Did you watch the Champion Tufts 2014, and 2015, teams? Pretty soccer at its best. You can't generalize from this year's team or Amherst. Also, I'm sure more was expected from Calvin than Tufts coming into this year...
+k for several good comments...
I don't know if Calvin is disrespected as much as they're difficult to judge going into the tournament. It's not their fault, they schedule good teams any time they can, but the MIAA just hasn't been competitive aside from Calvin in several years. So it's hard to tell if they're an elite team that is beating a bunch of non-tournament-worthy teams, or just a good team doing the same. Add all their graduation losses - after which you'd expect a drop-off - to an early-season loss to an OWU team that underwhelmed and a less dominating run through the MIAA, and I think it was fair to wonder if they were on the same level as last year's team.
They certainly get the respect they deserve via voters, as they're consistently ranked highly. As for the regional rankings and the NCAA draw, that's a function of (1) strength of schedule and (2) geography. Calvin's SOS put them in the same boat as a team like Springfield, who played in a better conference than the MIAA, and Springfield had to play Tufts in round one. Geographically, nobody is that close to Calvin, so they're regularly paired with OWU, Carnegie Mellon, etc. This year Calvin and ONU were both Final Four good. Last year and the year before it was Calvin and OWU playing out that type of game in the opening weekend.
My understanding is that the double round robin is gone for next year. With that and the home/away multipliers eliminated, much of the strength-of-schedule issue should disappear for Calvin. Then, if they put together another stellar regular season, I'd expect them to be higher ranked in the NCAA rankings and given better draws early in the tournament. Ultimately, the bad draws (or lack of respect) hasn't mattered, except to help Calvin switch into high gear early in the tournament. They've made the final three times and just been unlucky to be on the wrong side of three really close games.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 06:06:48 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2016, 04:39:12 PM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on December 03, 2016, 02:52:49 PM
I'm assuming that means you agree with the general point, that referees often fail to give red cards for those calls?
I do agree, although I don't think that made a big difference in the game. Calvin scored right away and there were 15 minutes left. Not ideal for Brandeis for sure, but IMO not nearly as big as Ocel getting injured early and the goal taken away.
As for the other thing, I'm truly interested in the psychology of partisanship. We remember what naturally favors our own teams.
I get what you're saying. I'm sure I remember those two specific plays because they involved "my" team, but I don't know how much that matters. Those were just examples of a specific type of foul - player breaks in behind the defense, guy pulls him down from behind - where the referee should have given a red card but didn't. The same thing happened yesterday and he did red card him, so apt comparison. I'd guess those type of red-cardable offenses happen all the time on various types of plays. (As for the one you mentioned, I think that was a different type of foul than one where a ball is played in behind and he's pulled down, so I wouldn't consider it the same type of play, and thus not a direct comparison. But the same principle holds for any instance where the foul, by the book, deserves red.)
Anyway, the overall premise for the Brandeis-Calvin post was that, in tight games, there are key moments that tilt the game one way or the other. You see it happen when one team misses a glaring opportunity, and the other scores right away. (Think today's Man City/Chelsea game. Man City is up 1-0, misses an open net from 3 yards out, a few minutes later Chelsea draws even, and Chelsea goes on to win 3-1). When you think back on those games, you see inflection points, and I thought those three points where the biggest ones. Considering how much Brandeis was in control in the second half, I think it's fair to say the red card was a game-changing moment - doubly so once Calvin scored on the ensuing free kick. And I do think playing a man down when you desperately need a goal is a huge deal.
Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest that the play was insignificant. I just think the prior plays I mentioned were bigger....a goal taken away is obvious I guess. And I agree that Brandeis has Calvin in serious trouble, but I would just say that I've seen Calvin like that several times before so hard to know what might have happened if Brandeis had caught a couple of breaks earlier in the game.
I sort of thought Calvin would somehow prevail, but I do think Tufts likes playing these other big teams they have never played before and Shapiro clearly is good at that (as is his team). So Tufts-Brandeis would have been an interesting and maybe more exciting final.
Quote from: Nutmeg on December 03, 2016, 06:07:46 PM
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 05:13:36 PM
I hear a lot from the supporters of the NESCAC on this forum and have figured they would be a skill conference that play control soccer. But from what I saw, that was not the case. They rely on physicality and to certain extent kick and run. The teams I see in other parts of the country play a better brand of soccer. I think it is very ironic how little respect is given to Calvin coming into the tournament season.
Did you watch the Champion Tufts 2014, and 2015, teams? Pretty soccer at its best. You can't generalize from this year's team or Amherst. Also, I'm sure more was expected from Calvin than Tufts coming into this year...
+k for several good comments...
LOL. Can Brother Flounder come out and take a bow? Let him share in the moment for heavens sakes!
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2016, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on December 03, 2016, 06:07:46 PM
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 05:13:36 PM
I hear a lot from the supporters of the NESCAC on this forum and have figured they would be a skill conference that play control soccer. But from what I saw, that was not the case. They rely on physicality and to certain extent kick and run. The teams I see in other parts of the country play a better brand of soccer. I think it is very ironic how little respect is given to Calvin coming into the tournament season.
Did you watch the Champion Tufts 2014, and 2015, teams? Pretty soccer at its best. You can't generalize from this year's team or Amherst. Also, I'm sure more was expected from Calvin than Tufts coming into this year...
+k for several good comments...
LOL. Can Brother Flounder come out and take a bow? Let him share in the moment for heavens sakes!
He may be in Virginia!
Totally agree, the called-back goal and the actual goal were bigger. And you're right, Calvin has really had a knack for bending and not breaking over the last few years. They did it last year against OWU, F&M, and Kenyon, and survived all three games. Finally caught up a bit against Loras, as they couldn't recover after falling behind. This year, they did much of the same. Nature of the game when you're playing good teams, as there are periods when both sides are on top. There weren't a ton of the top games where one team just dominated the entire match, which speaks to the overall quality of Division III. Lots of good teams around.
Tufts just didn't make any mistakes. That's the difference, in my opinion. So many of these games turn on a mistake or two, and Tufts' only mistake was slack marking on a corner yesterday when they were already up 2-0. In a way, it's similar to Amherst and Loras from last year, as those were two teams that played direct because it eliminated the chances for mistakes in the back. Plenty of ways to skin a cat (not sure why that's an actual phrase), but that no-nonsense approach has worked the last two years.
Quote from: Nutmeg on December 03, 2016, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2016, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: Nutmeg on December 03, 2016, 06:07:46 PM
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 05:13:36 PM
I hear a lot from the supporters of the NESCAC on this forum and have figured they would be a skill conference that play control soccer. But from what I saw, that was not the case. They rely on physicality and to certain extent kick and run. The teams I see in other parts of the country play a better brand of soccer. I think it is very ironic how little respect is given to Calvin coming into the tournament season.
Did you watch the Champion Tufts 2014, and 2015, teams? Pretty soccer at its best. You can't generalize from this year's team or Amherst. Also, I'm sure more was expected from Calvin than Tufts coming into this year...
+k for several good comments...
LOL. Can Brother Flounder come out and take a bow? Let him share in the moment for heavens sakes!
He may be in Virginia!
Well, then, please give him our regards and let him use your phone!
RH, I wish you were a Redlands alum and/or that my kid went to Haverford.
Your work on the interviews and write-ups, including for today's game, was stellar.
Quote from: letsGOswans! on December 03, 2016, 03:11:45 PM
Boy does this kid Isky Van Doorne have an engine.
I would definitely pick him out as the AA in the calvin midfield, not Hooper.
Quote from: oldknight on December 03, 2016, 03:49:59 PM
Tough loss for the Knights but a well executed corner by Tufts makes the Jumbos National Champs once again. Either team was a deserving champion. Kudos to Dave McHugh and Jeff Burns for providing an exceptionally well done broadcast. An easy to listen to pair of announcers who know the sport and were a pleasure to listen to.
Know the sport? Dude called a goal kick a "six kick"
Quote from: wingtips2 on December 03, 2016, 09:18:40 PM
Quote from: oldknight on December 03, 2016, 03:49:59 PM
Tough loss for the Knights but a well executed corner by Tufts makes the Jumbos National Champs once again. Either team was a deserving champion. Kudos to Dave McHugh and Jeff Burns for providing an exceptionally well done broadcast. An easy to listen to pair of announcers who know the sport and were a pleasure to listen to.
Know the sport? Dude called a goal kick a "six kick"
I admit I don't know what comment you're referring to, but both McHugh and Burns played college soccer.
Congrats to the Tufts Jumbos for a fantastic "come from behind season" and a their second National Championship!!
Quote from: oldknight on December 03, 2016, 09:39:34 PM
Quote from: wingtips2 on December 03, 2016, 09:18:40 PM
Quote from: oldknight on December 03, 2016, 03:49:59 PM
Tough loss for the Knights but a well executed corner by Tufts makes the Jumbos National Champs once again. Either team was a deserving champion. Kudos to Dave McHugh and Jeff Burns for providing an exceptionally well done broadcast. An easy to listen to pair of announcers who know the sport and were a pleasure to listen to.
Know the sport? Dude called a goal kick a "six kick"
I admit I don't know what comment you're referring to, but both McHugh and Burns played college soccer.
I have no idea what comment is being referred to... thanks for the kind words from others.
It was a joy to call the games with Burns and Ira Thor (semis). But the six kick? I don't remember a comment from anyone like that... but a lot of things said.
For the record, Burns not only played, but he was a pretty good coach as well.
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 03, 2016, 04:54:48 PM
Quote from: d3fan1 on December 03, 2016, 04:25:58 PM
I thought Majumder was very talented. He is a tough smart player. Sullivan on the other hand is a hack and tight officiating would make him a liability to his team.
Sullivan is the quintessential Nescac player...Very athletic and tough an big...Calvin wore down because of the physical play of Tufts and quite frankly Brandeis...They just were not used to it...
This.
To comments that Calvin was a better technical team: I thought they played soccer - defined as an abstract idea - "better" than Tufts. But in the real world - the "meat space" where games are played - Tufts showed everyone new to the game or those involved for 50 years: this is how championships are won in NCAA D3.
While I thought the referee's line for fouls was a little lenient, you tell players to go out in the beginning of the game to push the referee to define where the line will be today. Indiana's Jerry Yeagley used to preach to his players to knock your opponent on their butt in the first 5 minutes of every game to find two things - what will the ref call, what is your opponent's response. Tufts - Sullivan in particular - played the game as it was defined yesterday.
Quote from: wingtips2 on December 03, 2016, 09:18:40 PM
Know the sport? Dude called a goal kick a "six kick"
To be fair, that
is actually a slang term for goal kicks (taken from the top of the SIX yard box).
Quote from: blooter442 on December 04, 2016, 10:58:50 AM
Quote from: wingtips2 on December 03, 2016, 09:18:40 PM
Know the sport? Dude called a goal kick a "six kick"
To be fair, that is actually a slang term for goal kicks (taken from the top of the SIX yard box).
[/quot
i say six kick sometimes does that mean i do not "know" the sport . and even if he did what's the big deal lol let the man say whatever he pleases. no trying to come at you about something so little
but a lot of people on here have strong opinions against people who don't think exactly like they do.
All - was searching youtube for any videos of the final four and stumbled on this made by (I assume given the youtube name) the backup keeper for Tufts. A pretty well done and interesting look into the Jumbos journey during the final four stages. Have a look!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjAbYBgKhY
Quote from: oldonionbag on December 05, 2016, 10:51:08 AM
All - was searching youtube for any videos of the final four and stumbled on this made by (I assume given the youtube name) the backup keeper for Tufts. A pretty well done and interesting look into the Jumbos journey during the final four stages. Have a look!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mjAbYBgKhY
Fantastic! Gives me the chills going along for their ride! Congrats to Tufts and once again, NESCAC rules!
Any comments or thought about how Roanoke College did hosting this past weekend?
I'm always curious to learn what we could have done better and what people enjoyed.
Congrats to Tufts!
I was not able to make the trip to Salem personally because of some last minute work issues but I have spoken with lot's of friends who did make it (Messiah Women's fans). All were impressed with the hospitality in Salem and the friendliness and facilities at Roanoke College. Great job.
The site looked fantastic on the stream. Announcers both days were exceptional. The best of any announcers I have heard all season and I have heard a ton of them.
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 07, 2016, 12:09:15 PM
The site looked fantastic on the stream. Announcers both days were exceptional. The best of any announcers I have heard all season and I have heard a ton of them.
I agree. I recall watching the Tufts vs. Wheaton final in 2014 and they had the Wheaton's women's coach as a guest all second half. All they did was talk about how great Wheaton was as a team and athletic program...while Tufts led the whole game. The final four should not have a representative from a school for a whole half.... I could understand 5-10 minutes, but it really takes away from the game. It seems they learned from that SNAFU.....
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 07, 2016, 12:09:15 PM
The site looked fantastic on the stream. Announcers both days were exceptional. The best of any announcers I have heard all season and I have heard a ton of them.
Must not have been the Roanoke College guys. They use two local high school football announcers and their lack of soccer knowledge is painfully obvious. I've reached out to the AD to see what we can do to change that. I'm happy to hear that we did a good job hosting. The new athletic center is kind of crazy for a DIII program, but so was the price tag........
Quote from: NokeAlum15 on December 07, 2016, 12:42:16 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 07, 2016, 12:09:15 PM
The site looked fantastic on the stream. Announcers both days were exceptional. The best of any announcers I have heard all season and I have heard a ton of them.
Must not have been the Roanoke College guys. They use two local high school football announcers and their lack of soccer knowledge is painfully obvious. I've reached out to the AD to see what we can do to change that. I'm happy to hear that we did a good job hosting. The new athletic center is kind of crazy for a DIII program, but so was the price tag........
Men's games were called by Dave McHugh of D3sports.com.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 09, 2016, 02:22:02 AM
Quote from: NokeAlum15 on December 07, 2016, 12:42:16 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 07, 2016, 12:09:15 PM
The site looked fantastic on the stream. Announcers both days were exceptional. The best of any announcers I have heard all season and I have heard a ton of them.
Must not have been the Roanoke College guys. They use two local high school football announcers and their lack of soccer knowledge is painfully obvious. I've reached out to the AD to see what we can do to change that. I'm happy to hear that we did a good job hosting. The new athletic center is kind of crazy for a DIII program, but so was the price tag........
Men's games were called by Dave McHugh of D3sports.com.
Proud to do it! Played collegiate soccer and through most of my youth... been angling to call the Division III games for years (for reasons already stated). So thrilled to have the chance to do it this year. Also a nod to Ira Thor (semifinals) and Jeff Burns (championship) for being the color commentators. Ira has deep roots in soccer as well and Burns played and coached soccer at Randolph-Macon before eventually becoming AD there. I had a blast working with those guys and those from Webstream (who produced the event). I hope this is a sign of improvements to Division III championships in the future. I should also note that ODAC Assistant Commissioner J.J. Nekoloff (who also played soccer I think through college) was instrumental in making sure there were quality broadcasters for these games.
Thanks everyone...I really enjoyed calling the games and hopefully Dave and I get to do this together for future tournaments...Both of us have played the game as athletes (I still play...sorta)...and have covered the game as professionals...and I've coached it on the travel level....It was a pleasure to be a part of the two semis...I would have loved to have called the final with Dave but the day job called! Home hoops doubleheader this time of year meant I had to get back to Jersey!