Who's all in?
CUNYAC -Staten Island
CCC - Nichols
GNAC - Albertus Magnus
Liberty - Union
LEC - Eastern Connecticut
MASCAC - Salem St
NECC - Becker
NJAC - Ramapo
NAC - Husson
USAC - LaGrange
UAA - Washington U
Who's all in?
CUNYAC -Staten Island
CCC - Nichols
GNAC - Albertus Magnus
Liberty - Union
LEC - Eastern Connecticut
MAC-F - Misericordia
MASCAC - Salem St
MWC - Ripon
NECC - Becker
NJAC - Ramapo
NAC - Husson
NCAC - Wooster
SUNYAC - Oswego St.
USAC - LaGrange
UAA - Washington U
SCIAC - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
MIAA - Calvin!
SLIAC - Westminster (Mo.)..... and we won't lose by 50 in the first round this year!!!! 30, maybe, but not 50!!! ;)
CUNYAC -Staten Island
CCC - Nichols
GNAC - Albertus Magnus
Liberty - Union
LEC - Eastern Connecticut
MAC-F - Misericordia
MASCAC - Salem St
MIAA - Calvin
MIAC - Bethel (MN)
MWC - Ripon
NECC - Becker
NJAC - Ramapo
NAC - Husson
NCAC - Wooster
SCIAC - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
SLIAC - Westminster (Mo.)
SUNYAC - Oswego St.
USAC - LaGrange
UAA - Washington U
UMAC - Northwestern (MN)
AMCC - La Roche v Medaille
ASC - Hardin-Simmons
CAC - CNU
Centennial - Swarthmore
CCIW - NCC
CUNYAC -Staten Island
CCC - Nichols
CSAC - Neumann
E8 - SJF
GNAC - Albertus Magnus
HCAC - MSJ v Hanover
IIAC - Wartburg
Landmark - Scranton
Liberty - Union
LEC - Eastern Connecticut
MAC-F - Misericordia
MAC-C - Lycoming
MASCAC - Salem St
MIAA - Calvin
MIAC - Bethel (MN)
MWC - Ripon
NECC - Becker
NESCAC - Williams v Middlebury
NEWMAC - MIT v Babson
NJAC - Ramapo
NAC - Husson
NACC - Concordia WI v Benedictine
NCAC - Wooster
NEAC - Lancaster Bible v Morrisville St
NWC - Whitman
OAC - Marietta
ODAC - Emory and Hnery v Guilford
PAC - Thomas More
SAA - Birm Southern v Rhodes
SCIAC - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
SCAC - Tex Lutheran v Schreiner
Skyline - Farmingdale St
SLIAC - Westminster (Mo.)
SUNYAC - Oswego St.
USAC - LaGrange
UAA - Washington U
UMAC - Northwestern (MN)
WIAC - River Falls
I'm guessing there's no way of splitting Whitworth and Whitman in the 1st weekend?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2017, 10:42:45 AM
I'm guessing there's no way of splitting Whitworth and Whitman in the 1st weekend?
If the Whitman women host (I haven't looked into whether their win over UPS will give them that option), I think the NWC men's teams will get split.
To me, the best scenario is CMS, SCAC champ, and Whitworth at Whitman; but you could see CMS, Whitworth, and SCAC champ at Hardin-Simmons.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2017, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2017, 10:42:45 AM
I'm guessing there's no way of splitting Whitworth and Whitman in the 1st weekend?
If the Whitman women host (I haven't looked into whether their win over UPS will give them that option), I think the NWC men's teams will get split.
To me, the best scenario is CMS, SCAC champ, and Whitworth at Whitman; but you could see CMS, Whitworth, and SCAC champ at Hardin-Simmons.
Yeah, if Whitman men can host, they'd be best off flying CMS in to play Whitworth and the SCAC champ to play Whitman.
If Whitman men cannot host, they'd be best sent to Texas to play the SCAC champ with CMS also traveling there to play Hardin-Simmons. Whitworth could be shipped elsewhere then.
No sense in shifting the Whitman pod to Whitworth if Whitman men cannot host.
NWC/Claremont-M-S/Texas will be combined in some way unless they have 5+ flights approved (doubtful).
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2017, 12:44:01 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2017, 11:42:29 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2017, 10:42:45 AM
I'm guessing there's no way of splitting Whitworth and Whitman in the 1st weekend?
If the Whitman women host (I haven't looked into whether their win over UPS will give them that option), I think the NWC men's teams will get split.
To me, the best scenario is CMS, SCAC champ, and Whitworth at Whitman; but you could see CMS, Whitworth, and SCAC champ at Hardin-Simmons.
Yeah, if Whitman men can host, they'd be best off flying CMS in to play Whitworth and the SCAC champ to play Whitman.
If Whitman men cannot host, they'd be best sent to Texas to play the SCAC champ with CMS also traveling there to play Hardin-Simmons. Whitworth could be shipped elsewhere then.
No sense in shifting the Whitman pod to Whitworth if Whitman men cannot host.
NWC/Claremont-M-S/Texas will be combined in some way unless they have 5+ flights approved (doubtful).
Which is too bad, I would like to see if both Whitworth and Whitman could advance out of separate pods on the the first weekend. They are pretty confined to playing only West teams, which limits the Wests ability to have multiple teams advance. BUT, I understand the flights and money issue. it is just unfortunate that is the way the schools are located across the country.
It is what it is. You get used to it out here. Imagine telling Middlebury, Tufts, Wesleyan, and Amherst that they are in a 1st round pod together and that only one can advance to the round of 16...
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2017, 02:09:48 PM
It is what it is. You get used to it out here. Imagine telling Middlebury, Tufts, Wesleyan, and Amherst that they are in a 1st round pod together and that only one can advance to the round of 16...
Hey, I like that idea!! ;D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2017, 02:58:51 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on February 26, 2017, 02:09:48 PM
It is what it is. You get used to it out here. Imagine telling Middlebury, Tufts, Wesleyan, and Amherst that they are in a 1st round pod together and that only one can advance to the round of 16...
Hey, I like that idea!! ;D
Like
Smokey Robinson & the Miracles sang 🎤, I second that emotion! 😉
Another song, "Don't Be Cruel".
NESCAC teams would be very happy to never see each other again this season.
Quote from: middhoops on February 26, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
NESCAC teams would be very happy to never see each other again this season.
Those of us from double round-robin leagues think that you NESCAC guys barely made acquaintances with each other this season. ;)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2017, 07:38:13 PM
Quote from: middhoops on February 26, 2017, 06:49:23 PM
NESCAC teams would be very happy to never see each other again this season.
Those of us from double round-robin leagues think that you NESCAC guys barely made acquaintances with each other this season. ;)
Well, yeah. Busted.
But no less true.
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
They effectively do, they're just secret, and not placed equally around the bracket.
Quote from: AO on February 27, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
They effectively do, they're just secret, and not placed equally around the bracket.
Well, they are hardly seeds then, if they aren't placed equally around the bracket. Plus, generally they do award higher ranked teams with hosting, but that's not always the case and the host team probably doesn't always play the lowest ranked team in the 1st round.
If River Falls is the top seed in that bracket, Bethel definitely isn't the worst team.
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Swarthmore isn't even the top seed in its own opening weekend pod. Remarkable that they are hosting.
Have there ever been two closer tournament hosts than Swarthmore and Neumann? They can't be much more than 5 miles apart.
Quote from: txg on February 27, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Swarthmore isn't even the top seed in its own opening weekend pod. Remarkable that they are hosting.
Have there ever been two closer tournament hosts than Swarthmore and Neumann? They can't be much more than 5 miles apart.
St. Johns Fisher and University of Rochester are both hosting as well this year... According to Sager in the UAA board that is 6 miles apart.
Quote from: txg on February 27, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Swarthmore isn't even the top seed in its own opening weekend pod. Remarkable that they are hosting.
Have there ever been two closer tournament hosts than Swarthmore and Neumann? They can't be much more than 5 miles apart.
The CNU women are hosting.
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 27, 2017, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: txg on February 27, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Swarthmore isn't even the top seed in its own opening weekend pod. Remarkable that they are hosting.
Have there ever been two closer tournament hosts than Swarthmore and Neumann? They can't be much more than 5 miles apart.
St. Johns Fisher and University of Rochester are both hosting as well this year... According to Sager in the UAA board that is 6 miles apart.
Swarthmore and Neumann are either seven and a half miles or eight and a half miles (depending upon which route you take) apart, so St. John Fisher and Rochester win this weird contest.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:42:25 PM
Quote from: AO on February 27, 2017, 05:10:08 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
They effectively do, they're just secret, and not placed equally around the bracket.
Well, they are hardly seeds then, if they aren't placed equally around the bracket. Plus, generally they do award higher ranked teams with hosting, but that's not always the case and the host team probably doesn't always play the lowest ranked team in the 1st round.
If River Falls is the top seed in that bracket, Bethel definitely isn't the worst team.
My point is I believe we were told that at least in each 16 team region, everybody has a number they will use to determine who hosts and to serve as a guide to get the match ups that make the most sense while staying within budget. Bethel is the lowest ranked team of the 4 playing at River Falls, but others have correctly pointed out it would have made more "seed" sense to send my Eagles to River Falls and Bethel to Whitewater but maybe they were separating St. Thomas and Bethel from meeting up in the 2nd round since it was a free move to do so.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2017, 08:08:49 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 27, 2017, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: txg on February 27, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Swarthmore isn't even the top seed in its own opening weekend pod. Remarkable that they are hosting.
Have there ever been two closer tournament hosts than Swarthmore and Neumann? They can't be much more than 5 miles apart.
St. Johns Fisher and University of Rochester are both hosting as well this year... According to Sager in the UAA board that is 6 miles apart.
Swarthmore and Neumann are either seven and a half miles or eight and a half miles (depending upon which route you take) apart, so St. John Fisher and Rochester win this weird contest.
Using the official NCAA distance numbers - SJF to Rochester and Rochester to SJF are both 7.0 miles. Swarthmore to Neumann is 11 miles and Neumann to Swarthmore is 10.
I'm not sure how those are figured, though - they have Eastern and Cabrini as 4 miles apart, which is preposterous. CMS is literally across the street from Pitzer, but the NCAA has them at 2 miles. Who knows?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
Its almost like they forgot what they were doing in the lower left quad. Babson has to be the top seed right?. And Hope's pod is upside down, WashU has to be the highest seed there.
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2017, 08:49:43 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
Its almost like they forgot what they were doing in the lower left quad. Babson has to be the top seed right?. And Hope's pod is upside down, WashU has to be the highest seed there.
I think that pod is CNU -1, Babson -2, Tufts -3, Ramapo -4.
It ladders around pretty well, actually - if you look at Whitman as the #1 overall, then CNU is 4 and Babson 5, with WashU 6, and so in. It goes "to seed" pretty well.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2017, 09:10:28 PM
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2017, 08:49:43 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 27, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
They really don't have seeds.
Its almost like they forgot what they were doing in the lower left quad. Babson has to be the top seed right?. And Hope's pod is upside down, WashU has to be the highest seed there.
I think that pod is CNU -1, Babson -2, Tufts -3, Ramapo -4.
It ladders around pretty well, actually - if you look at Whitman as the #1 overall, then CNU is 4 and Babson 5, with WashU 6, and so in. It goes "to seed" pretty well.
Not if you listened to KVS on Hoopsville today. He basically said they still treated Babson as the top seed.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2017, 08:41:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2017, 08:08:49 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 27, 2017, 06:01:46 PM
Quote from: txg on February 27, 2017, 05:55:54 PM
Quote from: bbfan44 on February 27, 2017, 05:02:04 PM
Trying to understand the brackets: are the top 4 seeds Whitman, Middlebury, Swarthmore, and UWRF?
Swarthmore isn't even the top seed in its own opening weekend pod. Remarkable that they are hosting.
Have there ever been two closer tournament hosts than Swarthmore and Neumann? They can't be much more than 5 miles apart.
St. Johns Fisher and University of Rochester are both hosting as well this year... According to Sager in the UAA board that is 6 miles apart.
Swarthmore and Neumann are either seven and a half miles or eight and a half miles (depending upon which route you take) apart, so St. John Fisher and Rochester win this weird contest.
Using the official NCAA distance numbers - SJF to Rochester and Rochester to SJF are both 7.0 miles. Swarthmore to Neumann is 11 miles and Neumann to Swarthmore is 10.
I'm not sure how those are figured, though - they have Eastern and Cabrini as 4 miles apart, which is preposterous. CMS is literally across the street from Pitzer, but the NCAA has them at 2 miles. Who knows?
I believe the NCAA uses the address registered by the school which may not be the address of the athletic facility. Learned this painfully a few years ago - one address had us a mile over the 500 limit the one on file 1 mile under the 500 limit - the difference between flight or , ugh, a very long bus ride.
The other mileage differential maybe one way streets or non-direct paths between same two points.
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
EDIT: I just typed and sent this post. Hopefully you can read through the poor wording to see what I am getting at.
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
EDIT: I just typed and sent this post. Hopefully you can read through the poor wording to see what I am getting at.
I tried my best ??? Hopefully this is of some use...you can click on it to make it bigger and use the scroll bar to move left and right. I certainly understand that it might be hard to read, but many schools are in really close proximity.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi66.tinypic.com%2F21ay61v.jpg&hash=61e8d5a0c6e533bd8451acaeca3a8d3c78cf3369)
Quote from: AllStar on February 28, 2017, 01:18:38 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
EDIT: I just typed and sent this post. Hopefully you can read through the poor wording to see what I am getting at.
I tried my best ??? Hopefully this is of some use...you can click on it to make it bigger and use the scroll bar to move left and right. I certainly understand that it might be hard to read, but many schools are in really close proximity.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi66.tinypic.com%2F21ay61v.jpg&hash=61e8d5a0c6e533bd8451acaeca3a8d3c78cf3369)
+1
You've got the MIT line pointed to Endicott (MIT is the dot below the Endicott name), but very excellent. Far better than I could do.
Here's an informal poll to get some chatter going.
Of the 16 host teams, which is the most likely to get upset in the first round?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2017, 08:42:28 AM
Here's an informal poll to get some chatter going.
Of the 16 host teams, which is the most likely to get upset in the first round?
Hope, Rochester, St. John Fisher, Swarthmore - probably in that order.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2017, 08:42:28 AM
Here's an informal poll to get some chatter going.
Of the 16 host teams, which is the most likely to get upset in the first round?
I'll pick Hope.
My 2 candidates involve, naturally, WIAC teams.
First off, I think River Falls could get upset by Bethel. I feel the Falcons completely got hosed. The #1 regionally ranked team in the Central, WIAC regular season and tourney champs get "rewarded" with a 1st round game with Bethel, the co-champ of the MIAC with St. Thomas and MIAC tourney champ. Also in their pod is Wartburg, the 6th seed, tourney champ from the IIAC. Not sure how the NCAA screwed that up.
My other candidate is Oshkosh upsetting Hope. I know playing at Hope is a daunting task, but they shouldn't even be hosting. Despite the Titans losing the WIAC championship game, they are playing really well as of late. Hope did go 3-1 against the WIAC, beating Stout, La Crosse and River Falls, but falling to Stevens Point.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2017, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2017, 08:42:28 AM
Here's an informal poll to get some chatter going.
Of the 16 host teams, which is the most likely to get upset in the first round?
Hope, Rochester, St. John Fisher, Swarthmore - probably in that order.
Are you that impressed with Albertus Magnus hailing from the GNAC or the fact that Rochester has lost their last 2 and 3 of their last 5?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2017, 09:19:57 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2017, 08:50:23 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2017, 08:42:28 AM
Here's an informal poll to get some chatter going.
Of the 16 host teams, which is the most likely to get upset in the first round?
Hope, Rochester, St. John Fisher, Swarthmore - probably in that order.
Are you that impressed with Albertus Magnus hailing from the GNAC or the fact that Rochester has lost their last 2 and 3 of their last 5?
Momentum is a big part of it - AMC is way better now than they were in January; Rochester is the opposite. Plus the clash of styles could cause problems for Rochester (or AMC) and the AMC seniors have experience with a deep run on a good team.
Really, I just picked the matchups where the lower seed didn't seem entirely overmatched. River Falls might be next for the same reason.
The match-up between Albertus and Rochester should be an excellent first round game. As you know I am a little biased being an Albertus supporter but I really think the committee did no favors to Rochester here. With all due respect to Union, and I know the numbers on paper suggest other wise, but there is no way that Albertus should be considered the weakest if you will in this 4 team POD. Obviously the host (Rochester) is the #1 seed who will play the #4 (Albertus) in the first round. Making Wesleyan and Union the defacto 2 vs 3 match-up.
Again I want to stress that I am not saying the NCAA got it wrong but what I will say is Rochester got a very tough draw. I know this Falcons team well, we are not going to roll over for anyone and we are really clicking at the right time. I have watched every game this season and from Game 1 to now, as Ryan Scott mentioned you cant even compare the team in terms of confidence and overall performance.
I look forward to a great match-up on Friday between two really well coached teams who have completely opposite styles. If Albertus doesn't turn the ball over to much I really like our chances in this game.
Quote from: AllStar on February 28, 2017, 01:18:38 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
EDIT: I just typed and sent this post. Hopefully you can read through the poor wording to see what I am getting at.
I tried my best ??? Hopefully this is of some use...you can click on it to make it bigger and use the scroll bar to move left and right. I certainly understand that it might be hard to read, but many schools are in really close proximity.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi66.tinypic.com%2F21ay61v.jpg&hash=61e8d5a0c6e533bd8451acaeca3a8d3c78cf3369)
Very good! Thanks All Star, almost as good as all of your brackets for the conference tourneys! ;)
As expected, it really does highlight the lack of (good bball) schools west of the Mississippi.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2017, 07:59:06 AM
You've got the MIT line pointed to Endicott (MIT is the dot below the Endicott name), but very excellent. Far better than I could do.
Ballpark area. ;D I actually only threw it together after I read Smitty Oom's post. When you want to show the whole country, a whole lot of school names get lost because they are concentrated together. The good news is I don't think I missed any despite it being hard to read. I had to manually add several of them. Close enough. ;D
Quote from: AllStar on February 28, 2017, 11:47:21 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2017, 07:59:06 AM
You've got the MIT line pointed to Endicott (MIT is the dot below the Endicott name), but very excellent. Far better than I could do.
Ballpark area. ;D I actually only threw it together after I read Smitty Oom's post. When you want to show the whole country, a whole lot of school names get lost because they are concentrated together. The good news is I don't think I missed any despite it being hard to read. I had to manually add several of them. Close enough. ;D
Great job!
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 10:14:25 AM
Quote from: AllStar on February 28, 2017, 01:18:38 AM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
EDIT: I just typed and sent this post. Hopefully you can read through the poor wording to see what I am getting at.
I tried my best ??? Hopefully this is of some use...you can click on it to make it bigger and use the scroll bar to move left and right. I certainly understand that it might be hard to read, but many schools are in really close proximity.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi66.tinypic.com%2F21ay61v.jpg&hash=61e8d5a0c6e533bd8451acaeca3a8d3c78cf3369)
Very good! Thanks All Star, almost as good as all of your brackets for the conference tourneys! ;)
As expected, it really does highlight the lack of (good bball) schools west of the Mississippi.
No need to qualify it, Smitty. Only 16% of D3 schools that have men's basketball programs are located west of the Mississippi. And 11% of this season's tourney field is on the left side of Old Man River. This is in stark contrast to the general U.S. population, 41% of which lives west of the Mississippi, demonstrating in part just how skewed D3 geography really is. (It's also grossly over-represented in New England and New York State, but that's another story.)
I'd argue that if the tourney does have a favorite this year, it's the decidedly-west-of-the-Mississippi Whitman Blues. I've seen 'em several times online, and if I had to lay down a bet on a team this March, it'd be on the Blues.
That's a bold statement, Mr. Sager. I mean, if it's anyone, it's you that knows how hard it is to beat the same team FOUR times in the same season, let alone three! ;D :D >:(
:D
Here's another chart of all the NCAA Tournament teams. ;D Hopefully I didn't screw anything up.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi67.tinypic.com%2Fid623r.jpg&hash=3cf2fc3f56a8c48bfa1a4604e0065534e05ddf8e)
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F155jtk2.png&hash=439c5384be314723b34406d2d013f8ebc8d65969)
It gets really tricky in New England.
Quote from: HOPEful on February 28, 2017, 11:03:21 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F155jtk2.png&hash=439c5384be314723b34406d2d013f8ebc8d65969)
It gets really tricky in New England.
Tremendous map! Better than mine!
Nicely done, HOPEful!
So did anyone notice only #19 Denison and #20 St. Norbert were the only 2 ranked teams not to make the tournament?
Also, no ranked teams play each other in the 1st round.
Is there a pod of death or bracket of death this year?
I haven't heard too many complaints about the matchups.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2017, 02:41:07 PM
So did anyone notice only #19 Denison and #20 St. Norbert were the only 2 ranked teams not to make the tournament?
Also, no ranked teams play each other in the 1st round.
Is there a pod of death or bracket of death this year?
I haven't heard too many complaints about the matchups.
I think there is at least one top 25 team that doesn't make the tournament... there are certainly years that number could be hire if any of them stumble in the conference tournaments.
I don't think there is a bracket of death. I think the good teams are spread out around the country and the committee is doing their best to balance the brackets. Last time we really had one was in 2013 when it was unavoidable with single-round games (lose the ability to find a middle school to host and thus the radius is nearly 1000 miles for match-ups).
Getting 23 out of 25 ranked teams is pretty high, I thought.
I think the bottom right is wide open. River Falls could be the #1 seed but they could lose to Bethel in the 1st round. Possible #2 seed Washington U is on the road, Wooster, Whitewater, the defending champs. Lots of teams that have the ability to come out of there.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2017, 02:41:07 PM
Is there a pod of death or bracket of death this year?
I haven't heard too many complaints about the matchups.
I think this is the best bracket the committee has ever put out. Not a whole lot to complain about.
If I were to vote on a "bracket of death", I'd go upper right corner. Middlebury, Lycoming, Neumann, Nichols, Salisbury, Cabrini, Endicott... Neumann has to be a little bummed that their 25-2 record landed them one of the best guard tandems in the country in the first round (Echevarria and Bruton)... Lycoming can't love getting Tyheim Monroe in the first round either.
Quote from: HOPEful on March 01, 2017, 03:33:21 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2017, 02:41:07 PM
Is there a pod of death or bracket of death this year?
I haven't heard too many complaints about the matchups.
I think this is the best bracket the committee has ever put out. Not a whole lot to complain about.
If I were to vote on a "bracket of death", I'd go upper right corner. Middlebury, Lycoming, Neumann, Nichols, Salisbury, Cabrini, Endicott... Neumann has to be a little bummed that their 25-2 record landed them one of the best guard tandems in the country in the first round (Echevarria and Bruton)... Lycoming can't love getting Tyheim Monroe in the first round either.
The bracket of death is the one with only one team in top ten?
Quote from: HOPEful on March 01, 2017, 03:33:21 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2017, 02:41:07 PM
Is there a pod of death or bracket of death this year?
I haven't heard too many complaints about the matchups.
I think this is the best bracket the committee has ever put out. Not a whole lot to complain about.
If I were to vote on a "bracket of death", I'd go upper right corner. Middlebury, Lycoming, Neumann, Nichols, Salisbury, Cabrini, Endicott... Neumann has to be a little bummed that their 25-2 record landed them one of the best guard tandems in the country in the first round (Echevarria and Bruton)... Lycoming can't love getting Tyheim Monroe in the first round either.
I'd pick that as the easiest one - maybe the most open. Yeah, there are more legit contenders there than in other brackets, but that's because there aren't as many dominant teams. I do think it's pretty well spread overall. To me, the left side is tougher than the right, but there are championship contenders everywhere.
From what I've seen from analyzing so far, here are some serious matches to keep an eye on:
Rochester vs Albertus Magnus
Eastern Connecticut vs MIT
Wooster vs North Central
Guilford vs Thomas More
Whitworth vs Claremont-MS
Skidmore vs New Jersey City
Hope vs UW Osh-Kosh
And every other game.... But those are the most deadlocked in my eyes.
Quote from: HOPEful on February 28, 2017, 11:03:21 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F155jtk2.png&hash=439c5384be314723b34406d2d013f8ebc8d65969)
It gets really tricky in New England.
Wrong Bethel though. The Bethel in Indiana is the NAIA Bethel. The D3 Bethel is in Minnesota.
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2017, 08:29:34 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on February 28, 2017, 11:03:21 PM
Quote from: Smitty Oom on February 28, 2017, 12:01:04 AM
If anybody has the ability to make a map of the US with the logo of each of the 64 teams represented in the Men's Bracket where their school is located that would be a very cool and useful visual to see where all these teams are traveling. I feel like it may be hard to accomplish this though so if it is too time consuming don't bother! Just inquiring...
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2F155jtk2.png&hash=439c5384be314723b34406d2d013f8ebc8d65969)
It gets really tricky in New England.
Wrong Bethel though. The Bethel in Indiana is the NAIA Bethel. The D3 Bethel is in Minnesota.
I was going to say you forgot Bethel because I didnt see it in MN but you worked so hard on it I didn't want to scrutinize... Lovely pic though!! Love both you and AllStar's!!
It is so weird to see only one team in Virginia on this map.
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/tournament-preview
Hey Ryan, I really enjoyed your tournament preview. Maybe I'll base all my fantasy leagues on your predictions so when I bomb out, I have someone to blame!
Nice work! +1
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2017, 07:57:22 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/tournament-preview
Hey Ryan, I really enjoyed your tournament preview. Maybe I'll base all my fantasy leagues on your predictions so when I bomb out, I have someone to blame!
Nice work! +1
I'm glad I got the call up this year - I've long given up the notion of being able to predict the d3 tournament. It's much easier to write the preview if you hold no delusions of maybe being right.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2017, 08:05:41 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2017, 07:57:22 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/tournament-preview
Hey Ryan, I really enjoyed your tournament preview. Maybe I'll base all my fantasy leagues on your predictions so when I bomb out, I have someone to blame!
Nice work! +1
I'm glad I got the call up this year - I've long given up the notion of being able to predict the d3 tournament. It's much easier to write the preview if you hold no delusions of maybe being right.
I also really enjoyed the article! Personally, I am rooting for Hanover vs. Rochester to play in Salem now ;D :)
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 02, 2017, 08:08:53 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2017, 08:05:41 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 02, 2017, 07:57:22 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/tournament-preview
Hey Ryan, I really enjoyed your tournament preview. Maybe I'll base all my fantasy leagues on your predictions so when I bomb out, I have someone to blame!
Nice work! +1
I'm glad I got the call up this year - I've long given up the notion of being able to predict the d3 tournament. It's much easier to write the preview if you hold no delusions of maybe being right.
I also really enjoyed the article! Personally, I am rooting for Hanover vs. Rochester to play in Salem now ;D :)
That would be the ultimate win for me personally, I think - especially since I literally put down the first two names that came to mind.
The DIII Tournament gets some love on Bill Rhoden's podcast, Bill Rhoden on Sports:
https://soundcloud.com/user-876026376/episode-107-start-of-march-madness-division-iii
Rhoden, the New York Times Sports vet, is the uncle of Middlebury assistant coach Kyle Dudley.
It is nearly time to tip up the ball on the NCAA Division III Basketball Tournaments. Who will end up in Grand Rapids and Salem with a chance at a national title?
On Thursday's nights Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave McHugh gives his preview of the two tournaments and who may be the surprises, who can pull off an upset, who are the favorites to make a run, and who just might walk away with the walnut and bronze.
Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs LIVE starting at 7:00 PM ET from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/mar2 --- or via the simulcast on Facebook Live (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville). If you miss the show live, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcasts.
The show is jammed packed with guests, but Dave will also have time for your questions. Make sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com. You can also tweet them to us.
And please consider helping Hoopsville stay on the air like you might help your public television station. The annual fundraising campaign was extended a few days because we had only raised 52% of our goal. Click the following link for more information and to make a donation: Hoopsville Fundraising Page (https://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser-2017)
Guests scheduled (in order of appearance):
- Carl Danzig, Scranton men's coach
- Abby Pyzik Smith, Lynchburg women's coach
- Brad Fischer, No. 13 UW-Oshkosh women's coach
- Michael Blaine, Medialle men's coach
- Jeff Brown, No. 6 Middlbury men's coach
- Cameron Hill, No. 7 Trinity (Texas) women's coach
You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087
Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
YouTube: www.youtube.com/user/d3hoopsville
Fundraiser: https://igg.me/at/hoopsville-fundraiser-2017
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Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 01, 2017, 08:39:54 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2017, 08:29:34 PM
Wrong Bethel though. The Bethel in Indiana is the NAIA Bethel. The D3 Bethel is in Minnesota.
I was going to say you forgot Bethel because I didnt see it in MN but you worked so hard on it I didn't want to scrutinize... Lovely pic though!! Love both you and AllStar's!!
Alas! How embarrassing. I fixed it. At least I didn't put Ripon in CA! :) Also, the D3 Bethel need to work on their logo, just sayin...
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi66.tinypic.com%2Fvowqo1.png&hash=277f79a2c3c25d5bc5f9551262334c48dc02ffa6)
I've been running adjusted efficiency metrics all season. Check them out if you're interested in tournament matchups. Scroll down on the page for the system's score predictions (note there's a column for true home/away games and a column for neutral site games).
http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency-ratings/
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
I've been running adjusted efficiency metrics all season. Check them out if you're interested in tournament matchups. Scroll down on the page for the system's score predictions.
http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency-ratings/
Explain:
Guilford 65 Thomas More 65
Quote from: sac on March 03, 2017, 10:20:52 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
I've been running adjusted efficiency metrics all season. Check them out if you're interested in tournament matchups. Scroll down on the page for the system's score predictions.
http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency-ratings/
Explain:
Guilford 65 Thomas More 65
That would be the score of a game at Thomas More based on the way the schedule pulls into the sheet. Neutral site column has Guilford 67-63. Massey says 70-62.
It's kind of wonky but I don't have a good way of differentiating true home/road games from neutral site games automatically.
I think the close margin is a result of both teams operating rather slowly. I'm only expecting ~63 possessions in that game.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on March 03, 2017, 10:13:27 AM
I've been running adjusted efficiency metrics all season. Check them out if you're interested in tournament matchups. Scroll down on the page for the system's score predictions (note there's a column for true home/away games and a column for neutral site games).
http://detroitjockcity.com/division-iii-mens-basketball-efficiency-ratings/
Interesting to see Hanover as only a seven point favorite over Westminster. Massey also has Hanover as the seven point favorites.
I am biased against Hanover having seen them play early on. The November game in St. Louis was obviously an anomaly for some reason or another. But this Westminster team has had some great stretches within individual games and scored a come from behind exhibition win over Division II Maryville. This is not the 12-15 Westminster from a season ago even if almost all of the names on the roster are the same.
If Westminster was able to get the three point production from the guards and a
transcendent game from Tabb, Villalobos or O'Brien, lookout.
Looks like we'll have a new champion as Augustana comes from behind in the final half minute and hits a 3 at the buzzer to knock off St Thomas 77-74.
Enjoying the Whiparound tonight other than the occasional audio issues. Hard to hear the studio when game audio is going and hard to hear anything with multiple game audios going. I'm sure it will get better in the future but nice first attempt. Hope it comes back in the future :)
Also really enjoying the Whiparound! Have that up as well as one or two games I want to watch in full, like the UST game. Wow did the Defending Champs really blow a solid 6-8 point lead under one minute with bad TO and missed FT.. but thats why you play to the buzzer! Augie took advantage of the TO and made FT, they deserved to win after that last minute plus.
UST blew an eight-point lead with under 40 seconds to go.
HSU 109, LaGrange 103. Just curious.
When was the last time 212 points were scored in a Playoff game?
When was the last time that 2 teams hit 100 in regulation in a playoff game?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2017, 12:57:00 AM
HSU 109, LaGrange 103. Just curious.
When was the last time 212 points were scored in a Playoff game?
When was the last time that 2 teams hit 100 in regulation in a playoff game?
Most recent example I can find is Illinois Wesleyan over Hope 108-101 in 2OT back in 2012.
Johnson & Wales beat Ramapo 114-106 in OT in 2011
For a regulation game... I don't know
Big congrats to the CCC as Nichols and Endicott both win. I think Endicott may have been one of the last teams in and they beat #16 Salisbury, a team Ryan had going to the Final Four. Nichols tops #11 Neumann on their home court. They had 2 losses all year. I'm not sure anyone picked both to win and set up a 4th meeting. Great stuff!
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 04, 2017, 02:20:59 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2017, 12:57:00 AM
HSU 109, LaGrange 103. Just curious.
When was the last time 212 points were scored in a Playoff game?
When was the last time that 2 teams hit 100 in regulation in a playoff game?
Most recent example I can find is Illinois Wesleyan over Hope 108-101 in 2OT back in 2012.
Johnson & Wales beat Ramapo 114-106 in OT in 2011
For a regulation game... I don't know
Grinnell makes answering such questions much easier. ;)
Wheaton (IL) defeated Grinnell, 131-117, in the opening round in 1996. It was a regulation game.
Roanoke beat Shenandoah, 128-110, likewise in regulation, in the opening round in that same tournament. Those two games answer Ralph's second question.
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
Hope did a great job of hosting this weekend. The bar at the DoubleTree could be staffed a little better....they weren't ready for two Wisco teams.
Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 04, 2017, 09:57:03 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
Hope did a great job of hosting this weekend. The bar at the DoubleTree could be staffed a little better....they weren't ready for two Wisco teams.
Why in the world weren't you hanging out at the New Holland Brewing Company... seriously! The DoubleTree probably expects everyone to be at New Holland, instead. LOL
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
So, Dave, does this look accurate? I was wondering who would be hosting. Announced around 2 pm tomorrow?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2017, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
So, Dave, does this look accurate? I was wondering who would be hosting. Announced around 2 pm tomorrow?
Yep... that is our thinking. We chose Hope ahead of Augustana when we did our at-large selections, so in that case plus the fact Hope seats 3500 fans easy (ish)... I think it goes to Hope... but it could go either way.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2017, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2017, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
So, Dave, does this look accurate? I was wondering who would be hosting. Announced around 2 pm tomorrow?
Yep... that is our thinking. We chose Hope ahead of Augustana when we did our at-large selections, so in that case plus the fact Hope seats 3500 fans easy (ish)... I think it goes to Hope... but it could go either way.
Not to take anything away from Hope, but I assume they hosted over Wash U because of the Wash U women hosting? Man, with that crowd, I bet that was a big bonus, especially in the close game vs Oshkosh. And now they get to host the sectionals, possibly.
Yes... they were hosting because WashU women had priority. And yep, very good chance they return. But again... I think it is a 50/50 guess at this point.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2017, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2017, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
So, Dave, does this look accurate? I was wondering who would be hosting. Announced around 2 pm tomorrow?
Yep... that is our thinking. We chose Hope ahead of Augustana when we did our at-large selections, so in that case plus the fact Hope seats 3500 fans easy (ish)... I think it goes to Hope... but it could go either way.
I feel like on paper Hope hosts over Augustana via every criteria. The only reason I could see them sending the pod to Rock Island would be as a kindness to Hanover and Wartburg. For Hanover, they wouldn't have to play a true away game on Friday and for Wartburg, the 456 mile trip would be shortened to a much more reasonable 164 miles.
Hope - WP 0.800 SOS 0.525 RPI 0.594
Augustana - WP 0.704 SOS 0.542 RPI 0.583
Quote from: HOPEful on March 05, 2017, 08:09:21 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2017, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 04, 2017, 11:50:24 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
So, Dave, does this look accurate? I was wondering who would be hosting. Announced around 2 pm tomorrow?
Yep... that is our thinking. We chose Hope ahead of Augustana when we did our at-large selections, so in that case plus the fact Hope seats 3500 fans easy (ish)... I think it goes to Hope... but it could go either way.
I feel like on paper Hope hosts over Augustana via every criteria. The only reason I could see them sending the pod to Rock Island would be as a kindness to Hanover and Wartburg. For Hanover, they wouldn't have to play a true away game on Friday and for Wartburg, the 456 mile trip would be shortened to a much more reasonable 164 miles.
Hope - WP 0.800 SOS 0.525 RPI 0.594
Augustana - WP 0.704 SOS 0.542 RPI 0.583
First RPI isn't considered - but just on WP and SOS it's pretty clearly Hope. Secondly, there are criteria to be considered for hosting and "being nice" isn't one of them. In my mind it's either Hanover with a flight for Warburg, or its Hope.
If one host requires someone flying in and another doesn't, it's pretty obvious what team will be hosting...most of the time.
The NCAA could always spring for what I think would be the 4th flight on the men's side? By seed Hanover should be hosting.
Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 04, 2017, 09:57:03 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
Hope did a great job of hosting this weekend. The bar at the DoubleTree could be staffed a little better....they weren't ready for two Wisco teams.
I mean, is
any bar?
Middlebury Babson Hope and Marietta
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2017, 12:33:53 PM
Middlebury Babson Hope and Marietta
Everybody in the eastern time zone. That's got to be pretty rare, right?
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2017, 12:33:53 PM
Middlebury Babson Hope and Marietta
Everybody in the eastern time zone. That's got to be pretty rare, right?
You guys decided who is going where yet this weekend?
Quote from: Fifth and Putnam on March 05, 2017, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2017, 02:45:28 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 05, 2017, 12:33:53 PM
Middlebury Babson Hope and Marietta
Everybody in the eastern time zone. That's got to be pretty rare, right?
You guys decided who is going where yet this weekend?
Not yet... probably tomorrow before we figure it out. Recovering from a very busy weekend for us.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2017, 11:31:36 PM
Quote from: AppletonRocks on March 04, 2017, 09:57:03 PM
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 04, 2017, 09:53:03 PM
Looking ahead to next weekend's sectionals ...
In the top-left bracket, I'm guessing that the NCAA will fly two teams to Marietta rather than three to northwest, even assuming Whitman wins.
In the bottom-left, Babson should host, with short trips for Tufts & Keene State, while Christopher Newport flies up the coast.
In the top-left, Williams, Endicott, and Susquehanna will be heading to Middlebury.
In the bottom-right, it's interesting. Hanover and Wartburg are too far apart for either to host, so I'm guessing Augustana, but it could be Hope.
Hope did a great job of hosting this weekend. The bar at the DoubleTree could be staffed a little better....they weren't ready for two Wisco teams.
Why in the world weren't you hanging out at the New Holland Brewing Company... seriously! The DoubleTree probably expects everyone to be at New Holland, instead. LOL
We played late, we stayed late and acknowledged our seniors, and by the time we got to the hotel it was pretty late. The beauty of the hotel was we could stay up late.....real late....and we did.
Hail Titans !
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Quote from: AllStar on March 06, 2017, 07:19:29 PM
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I got very excited when I saw that you had the most recent post here, cause I knew these brackets were coming! Love them, thanks AllStar. +k!
Glad to be a help Smitty Oom! I'm really happy the team I support is still playing for now (Keene), but I'd be doing these nonetheless and plan to continue to in the future because they seem well-received. There are now a bunch of graphics in various places on these boards, mostly in the northeast and east regions. ;D. Thank you for the compliments, and I'm always open to feedback!
Nice, AllStar! Suitable for framing! ;)
So, again, to get some brief chatter here.
Who's the most surprising Sweet 16 team?
Endicott? They were probably one of the last few teams in. Went up against a ranked team in Salisbury and then conference rival Nichols, who had just beaten them a week before hand.
Keene St? Another team that was on the fence. What were they, the 9th or 10th ranked team the region? They top Amherst and then host and highly rated Ramapo.
Is it Wartburg, 6th seeded in their own conference tourney? Absolutely hammered Benedictine and River Falls.
Wartburg. I think Keene and Endicott have had some nice results, but Keene doesn't shock us and Endicott's scores are the only surprising thing for me. But a 6th seed beating to Top 10s by 59 total points? Yeah... Wartburg.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2017, 11:20:45 PM
Wartburg. I think Keene and Endicott have had some nice results, but Keene doesn't shock us and Endicott's scores are the only surprising thing for me. But a 6th seed beating to Top 10s by 59 total points? Yeah... Wartburg.
Agreed, not just Wartburg getting to the 16 but the way they managed it has to make them the story.
I'll add my vote to the Wartburg column.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2017, 11:20:45 PM
Wartburg. I think Keene and Endicott have had some nice results, but Keene doesn't shock us and Endicott's scores are the only surprising thing for me. But a 6th seed beating to Top 10s by 59 total points? Yeah... Wartburg.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2017, 11:29:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2017, 11:20:45 PM
Wartburg. I think Keene and Endicott have had some nice results, but Keene doesn't shock us and Endicott's scores are the only surprising thing for me. But a 6th seed beating to Top 10s by 59 total points? Yeah... Wartburg.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2017, 11:38:51 PM
I'll add my vote to the Wartburg column.
Agreed, not just Wartburg getting to the 16 but the way they managed it has to make them the story.
So of the 3. Are they the most likely to get out of the Sweet 16...or further?
They have Augie, who won by just 3 and 2 points, but they are Augie!
Endicott has a tough one against host Middlebury.
Keene St. takes on CNU.
I think Wartburg has the best chance to get out of the weekend only because I think that pod has a "free-for-all" feel to it. I think anyone could win that pod. Keene State and Endicott are sitting in pods were one or two dominating teams are sitting which makes me feel it is far harder for them.
Endicott went to Middlebury earlier this year and overcame a huge halftime lead. The Panthers were not happy about it. I'm pretty sure Endicott could shoot 80% from the floor on Friday and Matt St. Amour would find a way to shoot 85%. If they hadn't had the history, I'd pick EC in the upset (like I did back in December); not this time.
I think Keene is a legitimately good team. They're deep and strong. I don't consider them any less than the other three teams in that bracket, but seeing as how the four teams in Wartburg's bracket are all probably more fallible, I'll give them the edge. They have no defeated three of the top WIAC teams this season. Even if the shooting doesn't hold up, they're not terrible.
I'll take Endicott. You can't get much better than Walker and Motroni. Add if they can get past Middlebury, a team they beat back in November, I like their chances against Williams or Susquehanna.
Even if Wartburg beats Augie, I'd take the Hope/Hanover winner in the Saturday game. I'm keen on Keene but the gambit of CNU and then Babson/Tufts if too daunting to pick them...
Walker and Motroni are really good, but Brown and Daly are likewise one of the very best backcourt duos in the country; both are absolutely relentless on both ends, especially defensively. Should be a great match-up, and Midd goes in with an edge knowing that if the backcourt matchup is even, it's very unlikely that Endicott's thin frontcourt can match the production Midd gets from St. Amour and its big men. But an Endicott win would not shock me, and if Williams does advance and Endicott pulls off the upset, their guards' quickness would pose big problems for us. They are very capable of making it to Salem, for sure.
I was really impressed by Hope's Hawkins and Blackledge when Williams played them earlier -- as good a duo of players as I've seen in the country. Hawkins is lightning quick and Blackledge is just a really savvy dude out there. Williams was fortunate to get him in foul trouble. Hope seems to rely on those guys a heck of a lot so the key is for Carlson and Stuive to continue to provide big shooting games; any significant bench production seems to be a major bonus at this point for Hope and seems increasingly less likely as the competition grows stronger. Hope's talent level 5-10 I found to be underwhelming, putting an enormous amount of pressure on the top four (very talented) guys.
I like Tufts emerging from the Babson/CNU bracket. Tom Palleschi has another week to get healthy and it seems like Vinny Pace may have found his mojo now that he's a year removed from his surgery. Those two guys if healthy plus Tarik Smith gives them three REALLY tough guys to stop individually, and they have waves of interchangeable big, athletic wings who can shoot the 3 to rotate in and out and around them. Health has really been the only limiting factor for them this year. Babson on the other hand still seems pretty banged up and figures to get worn down in back-to-back games relying SO much on just a few key guys to carry a huge burden (even if one is a sure-fire first team all-American).
Quote from: HOPEful on March 07, 2017, 11:35:23 AM
I'll take Endicott. You can't get much better than Walker and Motroni. Add if they can get past Middlebury, a team they beat back in November, I like their chances against Williams or Susquehanna.
Even if Wartburg beats Augie, I'd take the Hope/Hanover winner in the Saturday game. I'm keen on Keene but the gambit of CNU and then Babson/Tufts if too daunting to pick them...
If Hope plays the way that it did on Saturday against Wash U for the next two weekends, the Dutch will cut down the net in Salem. Thing is, I'm not sold on the idea that they can sustain what they did to Wash U for four more games, even though two of them would be in DeVos. They haven't put together that kind of a Wartburgian stretch this year against top teams.
I still think that Whitman is the x factor in this tournament. Nobody ever talks about the Blues, because everybody's usually in bed already while Whitman is playing. But I've watched a couple of Whitman games, and it's a seriously deep and talented team that can wear down an opponent with that relentless tempo. I'm interested in seeing what Whitman would bring to the table against a Christopher Newport or a Middlebury or a Hope.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
Quote from: HOPEful on March 07, 2017, 11:35:23 AM
I'll take Endicott. You can't get much better than Walker and Motroni. Add if they can get past Middlebury, a team they beat back in November, I like their chances against Williams or Susquehanna.
Even if Wartburg beats Augie, I'd take the Hope/Hanover winner in the Saturday game. I'm keen on Keene but the gambit of CNU and then Babson/Tufts if too daunting to pick them...
If Hope plays the way that it did on Saturday against Wash U for the next two weekends, the Dutch will cut down the net in Salem. Thing is, I'm not sold on the idea that they can sustain what they did to Wash U for four more games, even though two of them would be in DeVos. They haven't put together that kind of a Wartburgian stretch this year against top teams.
I still think that Whitman is the x factor in this tournament. Nobody ever talks about the Blues, because everybody's usually in bed already while Whitman is playing. But I've watched a couple of Whitman games, and it's a seriously deep and talented team that can wear down an opponent with that relentless tempo. I'm interested in seeing what Whitman would bring to the table against a Christopher Newport or a Middlebury or a Hope.
If they can get by Hardin-Simmons - which, one coach told me is the best team he's seen in person in the last two years (and he's seen multiple top 10 programs in both years). That should be a great matchup.
Yes, I've seen a couple of Cowboys games as well, and Hardin-Simmons is indeed legit. That should be a great early game in Ohio on Friday night.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
If Hope plays the way that it did on Saturday against Wash U for the next two weekends, the Dutch will cut down the net in Salem.
Yes, but I don't think this statement is all that fair to Hope. If your forward that averages 11 points per games shoots 10 for 11 from 3 and as a team you take 29 shots from behind the arc and make 55% of them, you're not losing that game!! There's certainly room for some regression against Hanover. If I watch every Hope game for the next 30 years, I might not see them play as well as they did last Saturday. I'm just hoping they can keep up the defensive intensity they showed against UWO and Washington.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 07, 2017, 11:48:36 AM
Hope's talent level 5-10 I found to be underwhelming, putting an enormous amount of pressure on the top four (very talented) guys.
Not wrong, especially when it comes to scoring points. Harrison, Dante, Chad, and Stuive definitely carry the team offensively.
Anyone have much insight into Susquehanna, besides statistical? Seems like they don't have any fans on these boards ...
Quote from: HOPEful on March 07, 2017, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2017, 02:58:07 PM
If Hope plays the way that it did on Saturday against Wash U for the next two weekends, the Dutch will cut down the net in Salem.
Yes, but I don't think this statement is all that fair to Hope. If your forward that averages 11 points per games shoots 10 for 11 from 3 and as a team you take 29 shots from behind the arc and make 55% of them, you're not losing that game!! There's certainly room for some regression against Hanover. If I watch every Hope game for the next 30 years, I might not see them play as well as they did last Saturday. I'm just hoping they can keep up the defensive intensity they showed against UWO and Washington.
Who said anything about
fair? I don't see how fairness plays into this.
I didn't say anything about Stuive going off like a maniac beyond the arc, because that's not a necessary ingredient for Hope's success. If somebody else -- Carlson, perhaps, or Blackledge or Hawkins -- is hitting a lot of those shots instead of Stuive over the next two weekends, it all comes out the same.
My point was that Hope played well enough at both ends of the floor on Saturday to beat any team in the nation, so the Dutch have demonstrated that the Walnut & Bronze is within their grasp. And, yeah, there is room for regression against Hanover, but perhaps not as much as you think; the Panthers are a very good basketball team, in spite of the fact that the HCAC isn't a league that garners a lot of respect. And the room for regression gets even smaller as Hope gets deeper in.
I agree that Hanover is a good basketball team, but if I was in a sweet sixteen confidence pool I would have Hope at 16. Not only are they at home, but Hanover has been on the right side of a ton of close games this year. Hanover has proven that when the game is on the line in the last few minutes, they have the ability, execution and toughness to get it done. IMHO I just don't see this game being all that close due to the talent of the Hope bigs.
Quote from: 4samuy on March 07, 2017, 09:55:06 PM
I agree that Hanover is a good basketball team, but if I was in a sweet sixteen confidence pool I would have Hope at 16. Not only are they at home, but Hanover has been on the right side of a ton of close games this year. Hanover has proven that when the game is on the line in the last few minutes, they have the ability, execution and toughness to get it done. IMHO I just don't see this game being all that close due to the talent of the Hope bigs.
it depends on which Hope team shows up. Hope has the advantages - home court, DeVos will be packed, size and on paper should win. But, this is the same team that lost some head scratchers including two to Calvin down the stretch.
... which goes back to my original statement about the Dutch. They've proven over the course of one game that they can beat anybody in this tournament. They haven't proven that they can replicate that kind of performance, or anything close to it, five times in a row.
Wow! My simple graphics really set off a firestorm here. ;) ;) ;)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2017, 05:43:26 PM
And, yeah, there is room for regression against Hanover, but perhaps not as much as you think; the Panthers are a very good basketball team, in spite of the fact that the HCAC isn't a league that garners a lot of respect. And the room for regression gets even smaller as Hope gets deeper in.
Agree with all of this. Hanover is a VERY good team. I believe the winner of the Hope/Hanover game will being playing in Salem. I also think Hope matches up well against Hanover, barring they keep out of foul trouble. I expect Fails to struggle against Dante Hawkins, and I expect Hope's defense to focus primarily on stopping (perhaps containing is the better gerund) McKinney and Muchmore. Hope's depth is certainly an issue, but the Panthers have almost the exact same issue. Fails, McKinney, Muchmore, and Buck account for almost the exact disproportionate amount of Hanover's offense as Blackledge, Hawkins, Carlson, and Stuive do for Hope (both teams between 72-73% of scoring).
I'm really excited for this game! Is it Friday yet!? :)
The NE is much less congested now...
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Less congested to be sure, but 6 out of 16 ain't chopped liver.
One thing I keep reminding myself about teams from conferences that aren't as highly regarded... there is no reason they can't make runs.
Too many times people conflate good or great conferences with good or great teams and that they should be the only ones who will be able to compete for championships. That has been proven more and more often untrue in Division III. We don't have to go back that far to see how teams at the top of some of the "weaker" conferences constantly prove themselves in the NCAA tournament. Benedictine last year, Morrisville State out of the NEAC got to the Sweet 16 two years in a row - something Keene State has now replicated. Cabrini represented the CSAC very well for a number of years. There are many other examples, even Catholic back in the early 2000s when the CAC wasn't as highly regarded.
Sure, the best conferences certainly have some very good teams. I am not saying that. I just think Division III proves great teams are everywhere. It doesn't matter the conference or the region. Too many people poo-poo teams based on their conference. It may be hard to gauge a team and how good they are based on their conference and there is certainly room for debate on when to call them good, great, Top 25, but as we always say... when they prove themselves it is hard to ignore. Hanover may have already done some of their proving, but this weekend is a perfect chance to turn even more heads.
Quote from: middhoops on March 08, 2017, 11:12:28 AM
Less congested to be sure, but 6 out of 16 ain't chopped liver.
More like filet mignon. I had not backhanded motivations for the comment. Simply that map was prettier since I wasn't trying to fit a bagillion teams into Massachusetts.
If Hanover were actually located where they are on the map, they could've hosted!
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2017, 03:19:37 PM
If Hanover were actually located where they are on the map, they could've hosted!
Ah... fix made. But they still wouldn't have been able to host if they didn't put in a bid.
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Marietta is right on the West Virginia border if we are starting to slit hairs. They are right on the Ohio River. LOL
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 08, 2017, 03:41:14 PM
Marietta is right on the West Virginia border if we are starting to slit hairs. They are right on the Ohio River. LOL
Hairs have been split. And I'm aware of Hope's geography as well but it's more aesthetically pleasing to place the logo where it is...
I didn't mean for you to fix anything, just making a point. It's not like you could even get the New England teams to their geographic locations without a whole lot of overlap anyway.
Here's how Massey rates the Sweet Sixteen:
1. Whitman
3. Middlebury
4. Christopher Newport
5. Marietta
6. Babson
13. Augustana
14. Hanover
15. Hope
17. Rochester
19. Williams
20. Wartburg
22. Hardin-Simmons
23. Tufts
43. Susquehanna
53. Endicott
66. Keene State
Massey's predictions for Friday night:
Whitman 96, Hardin-Simmons 87 (WC 79%, HSC 21%)
@ Marietta 80, Rochester 73 (MC 75%, UR 25%)
Christopher Newport 76, Keene State 66 (CNU 82%, KSC 18%)
@ Babson 82, Tufts 75 (BC 74%, TU 26%)
Williams 75, Susquehanna 71 (WC 62%, SU 38%)
@ Middlebury 87, Endicott 76 (MC 84%, EC 16%)
Augustana 80, Wartburg 78 (AC 53%, WC 47%)
@ Hope 76, Hanover 71 (Hope 67%, Hano 33%)
... and Massey's championship probabilities:
| 1. Whitman | 20.63 |
| 2. Middlebury | 19.07 |
| 3. Christopher Newport | 13.54 |
| 4. Marietta | 13.25 |
| 5. Babson | 8.79 |
| 6. Hope | 5.24 |
| 7. Augustana | 4.68 |
| 8. Wartburg | 3.35 |
| 9. Rochester | 3.23 |
| 10. Williams | 3.13 |
| 11. Hanover | 1.35 |
| 12. Tufts | 1.10 |
| 13. Hardin-Simmons | 0.86 |
| 14. Endicott | 0.84 |
| 15. Susquehanna | 0.74 |
| 16. Keene State | 0.19 |
This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for Augustana, after losing their top six players and roughly 80% of their production (points, rebounds, minutes) from last season's quarterfinalist team. Has any other surviving team lost so much from the prior season?
Of the New England teams, all save for Tufts feature a mostly identical group of key players as last year, although Keene did lose its star big guy. Tufts has surprised / impressed me considering that they lost two key starters to graduation, Pace has been limited by his ACL tear suffered last March, and Palleschi missed a good chunk of the season with a dislocated knee. Only one returning starter has been healthy all year.
Quote from: augie77 on March 09, 2017, 12:49:45 AM
This was supposed to be a rebuilding year for Augustana, after losing their top six players and roughly 80% of their production (points, rebounds, minutes) from last season's quarterfinalist team.
Augustana also lost sophomore forward Pierson Wofford, who played in 20 games last season as a freshman and was projected to be one of the top players on this season's team, in late January for undisclosed reasons.
Quote from: augie77 on March 09, 2017, 12:49:45 AMHas any other surviving team lost so much from the prior season?
Good question. I'll look into that.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 09, 2017, 08:56:23 AM
Of the New England teams, all save for Tufts feature a mostly identical group of key players as last year, although Keene did lose its star big guy. Tufts has surprised / impressed me considering that they lost two key starters to graduation, Pace has been limited by his ACL tear suffered last March, and Palleschi missed a good chunk of the season with a dislocated knee. Only one returning starter has been healthy all year.
Keene is also missing guard Dizel Wright, one of their best players, but it's not quite the same since he was injured for the second half of last season also. Imagine what they could've done with him last year and this year.
The Division III NCAA tournaments have already seen their fair share of twists and turns. Both defending champions eliminated on the opening night, several home teams beaten, off-the-radar squads tearing Top 10 teams apart, and much more.
It has been an exciting start. What's next?
Can the home teams parlay a perceived advantage into a Championship Weekend appearence? What Cinderalla team will hear the chimes of midnight? What program will continue to make history? How will the battle of Top 25 teams shake out? And will a storied career end this weekend or in Salem?
There is plenty to talk about ahead of the Sectional Weekend and Dave McHugh has a super-sized list of guests on Thursday night's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com).
Hoopsville is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. You can watch the show LIVE staring at 7:00 p.m. ET here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/mar9 --- or via the Facebook Live (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville) simulcast. If you missed any part of the show, you can watch it On Demand or listen to the podcast.
Despite the large list of guests, Dave will find time to answer questions as well. Make sure to email them to hoopsville@d3hoops.com or tweet them and Dave will answer them on air.
Guests scheduled (in order of appearance):
- Brian Morehouse, No. 18 Hope women's coach
- Trevor Woodruff, No. 17 Scranton women's coach
- Craig Carse, Hardin-Simmons men's coach
- Ruth Sinn, No. 2 St. Thomas women's coach
- Michelle Ferenz, No. 16 Whitman women's coach
- Kevin App, Williams men's coach
- Grey Giovanine, Augustana men's coach
You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
SoundCloud: www.soundcloud.com/hoopsville
iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087
Don't forget you can always interact with us:
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #Hoopsville
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A lot of good articles about the remaining teams on d3hoops.com this week, enjoyed them all! Here is one I found that is about a week old but it was from the USAtoday and covers the Whitman Blues. Sorry if this had already been shared but I didn't see it on here or the NWC boards. Even cites the d3hoops top 25 poll!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/02/meet-the-only-unbeaten-mens-team-in-college-basketball-whitman-college/98656274/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/02/meet-the-only-unbeaten-mens-team-in-college-basketball-whitman-college/98656274/)
POSSIBLE UPSET ALERT: early in the second half HSU trails #1 (and undefeated) Whitman by a single point.
Keene on the verge of upsetting CNU.
Whitman blows out HSU by 20
68-64 Keene St
Williams pulling away from Susquehanna
Augie up 10 with 4 to play.
Williams tops Susquehanna 78-61
Augie wins 80-69
How did Hanover win it with a second to go?????
Marietta out.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2017, 09:33:29 PM
How did Hanover win it with a second to go?????
That was quite the finish... hit a layup to tie it, deflect the pass on the inbound to force a turnover, then hit the 3 to win
Wes McKinney drove for a layup with Hanover down, 77-75. He missed, but Corey Muchmore deposited the putback with two seconds left. Cody Stuive of Hope was called for an inbounds violation -- or was it some sort of deflection? hard to tell from the angle, and the PBP guy didn't make a call -- while bringing the ball back into play, giving the Panthers the ball back under their offensive basket with 1.8 seconds left. The Panthers inbounded to McKinney in the right corner, who hit a fallaway 18-footer at the buzzer to win the game for Hanover, 79-77.
Wow. What a night!
Looks like Marietta absolutely gagged at the end of the game. Rochester kept missing free throws in the final seconds, but Marietta first failed to collect a defensive rebound and then turned the ball over at the other end.
Keene State (22-9) @ Babson (27-2)
Williams (22-8) @ Middlebury (27-3)
Whitman (30-0) vs. Rochester (24-4) @ Marietta, OH
Augustana (22-8) vs. Hanover (25-3) @ Holland, MI
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2017, 09:56:00 PM
Keene State (22-9) @ Babson (27-2)
Williams (22-8) @ Middlebury (27-3)
Whitman (30-0) vs. Rochester (24-4) @ Marietta, OH
Augustana (22-8) vs. Hanover (25-3) @ Holland, MI
Those are going to be some empty gyms tomorrow. Hope video had over 1900 watching near the end.
Quote from: realist on March 10, 2017, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2017, 09:56:00 PM
Keene State (22-9) @ Babson (27-2)
Williams (22-8) @ Middlebury (27-3)
Whitman (30-0) vs. Rochester (24-4) @ Marietta, OH
Augustana (22-8) vs. Hanover (25-3) @ Holland, MI
Those are going to be some empty gyms tomorrow. Hope video had over 1900 watching near the end.
Clearly won't be as packed as it was tonight in Holland with Hope out, but Augie travels well and I believe they had a pretty good crowd there tonight.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2017, 09:41:52 PM
Wes McKinney drove for a layup with Hanover down, 77-75. He missed, but Corey Muchmore deposited the putback with two seconds left. Cody Stuive of Hope was called for an inbounds violation -- or was it some sort of deflection? hard to tell from the angle, and the PBP guy didn't make a call -- while bringing the ball back into play, giving the Panthers the ball back under their offensive basket with 1.8 seconds left. The Panthers inbounded to McKinney in the right corner, who hit a fallaway 18-footer at the buzzer to win the game for Hanover, 79-77.
The inbound pass was deflected back towards Stuive, the inbounder, who caught the ball before he had established himself back onto the court. It was an alert call by the official.
Any video of McKinney's buzzer beater?
Quote from: Augie6 on March 10, 2017, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: realist on March 10, 2017, 10:00:02 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2017, 09:56:00 PM
Keene State (22-9) @ Babson (27-2)
Williams (22-8) @ Middlebury (27-3)
Whitman (30-0) vs. Rochester (24-4) @ Marietta, OH
Augustana (22-8) vs. Hanover (25-3) @ Holland, MI
Those are going to be some empty gyms tomorrow. Hope video had over 1900 watching near the end.
Clearly won't be as packed as it was tonight in Holland with Hope out, but Augie travels well and I believe they had a pretty good crowd there tonight.
Hanover looked like it had a full section in the second game. But, yeah, with an arena as cavernous as DeVos, it's easy for it to look empty when the home team isn't playing.
What are the chances going forward (in future years), that we'll have game times staggered for online viewing? It's a little disappointing all 4 games tomorrow start at 7 Eastern.
It is worth a conversation to be sure... it is mandated, but I think it is worth chatting with the committee about it. The chair is in Marietta with me... I'll bring it up. Back in the day, it didn't matter. Now with video web streaming, it is worth the conversation.
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 09, 2017, 10:35:44 PM
A lot of good articles about the remaining teams on d3hoops.com this week, enjoyed them all! Here is one I found that is about a week old but it was from the USAtoday and covers the Whitman Blues. Sorry if this had already been shared but I didn't see it on here or the NWC boards. Even cites the d3hoops top 25 poll!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/02/meet-the-only-unbeaten-mens-team-in-college-basketball-whitman-college/98656274/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2017/03/02/meet-the-only-unbeaten-mens-team-in-college-basketball-whitman-college/98656274/)
Also a nice article in Seattle Times today: http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/whitman-basketball-teams-enjoy-athletic-renaissance/ (http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/college/whitman-basketball-teams-enjoy-athletic-renaissance/)
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2017, 10:17:01 PM
Any video of McKinney's buzzer beater?
http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/basketball/2017/03/10/hanover-advances-d-iii-tourney-mckinneys-buzzer-beater/99040124/
Kind of amusing how McKinney's teammates react. He hits the game winner and none of them run over to McKinney in the corner. ??? ;D :P
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3865/33372758145_cdba1cde63_h.jpg)
Anyone else remember this line from the end of the tournament preview (http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/tournament-preview)?
Quote(Or maybe this is all comically ignorant and we'll see Hanover top Rochester for the title.)
I have to say... I didn't have either making it this far but now they're a couple wins from the finals. Perhaps next year Ryan won't put so much effort into the preview and just pick two teams :D
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 11, 2017, 04:48:13 AM
Anyone else remember this line from the end of the tournament preview (http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2017/tournament-preview)?
Quote(Or maybe this is all comically ignorant and we'll see Hanover top Rochester for the title.)
I have to say... I didn't have either making it this far but now they're a couple wins from the finals. Perhaps next year Ryan won't put so much effort into the preview and just pick two teams.
Yeah, I noticed. Coahc Flockerzi emailed me after the preview and (jokingly) complained about not being picked to win that game. I texted him last night with congratulations and a reminder that it's still possible. It might be the best moment of the year for me if that matchup works out.
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 10:42:04 AM
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
It'll be there. I'm pretty sure Dave is still there to call the game.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 10:42:04 AM
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
It'll be there. I'm pretty sure Dave is still there to call the game.
I've never added those before, but I tried just now. I think they're correct. I know the video one is right.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 10:42:04 AM
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
It'll be there. I'm pretty sure Dave is still there to call the game.
I've never added those before, but I tried just now. I think they're correct. I know the video one is right.
There will be video and live stats... otherwise, I am here in Marietta, Ohio for absolutely no reason. LOL
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 10:58:30 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 10:42:04 AM
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
It'll be there. I'm pretty sure Dave is still there to call the game.
I've never added those before, but I tried just now. I think they're correct. I know the video one is right.
There will be video and live stats... otherwise, I am here in Marietta, Ohio for absolutely no reason. LOL
Well, if there weren't, you'd still see a great game.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 10:58:30 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 10:42:04 AM
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
It'll be there. I'm pretty sure Dave is still there to call the game.
I've never added those before, but I tried just now. I think they're correct. I know the video one is right.
There will be video and live stats... otherwise, I am here in Marietta, Ohio for absolutely no reason. LOL
Well, if there weren't, you'd still see a great game.
Fair point... tonight's match up has got my brain spinning. Too radically different approaches... though ironically, Rochester coached by a man who played "The System" at Grinnell so is familiar with up-tempo, but uses more of a Princeton offense. Incredible.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 02:09:00 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 10:58:30 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:56:44 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 10:52:44 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2017, 10:42:04 AM
No live stats/video link for Rochester v Whitman?
It'll be there. I'm pretty sure Dave is still there to call the game.
I've never added those before, but I tried just now. I think they're correct. I know the video one is right.
There will be video and live stats... otherwise, I am here in Marietta, Ohio for absolutely no reason. LOL
Well, if there weren't, you'd still see a great game.
Fair point... tonight's match up has got my brain spinning. Too radically different approaches... though ironically, Rochester coached by a man who played "The System" at Grinnell so is familiar with up-tempo, but uses more of a Princeton offense. Incredible.
I see Grinnell all over the Rochester offense. They don't necessarily do the threes and layups thing, but the cuts and movement is very reminiscent of some of the GC offense. The System, on offense, is all about getting people open; you don't necessarily have to do it every six seconds, but the principles remain.
Eh... I don't see Grinnell in their system to be honest. Yes, they shoot a lot of threes, but in the flow of the offense with a ton of back-door cuts. They want those Princeton-style items to work from what I have seen. That said, not a lot of mid-range jumpers. I heard VanderWal talk about knowing it was close or deep... nothing else.
Though, gives me something to chat with Luke with prior to the game to make sure I do understand what I am watching. I love picking coaches' brains about this stuff.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 02:42:54 PM
Eh... I don't see Grinnell in their system to be honest. Yes, they shoot a lot of threes, but in the flow of the offense with a ton of back-door cuts. They want those Princeton-style items to work from what I have seen. That said, not a lot of mid-range jumpers. I heard VanderWal talk about knowing it was close or deep... nothing else.
Though, gives me something to chat with Luke with prior to the game to make sure I do understand what I am watching. I love picking coaches' brains about this stuff.
I just mean the way they get open - screens and cuts - I suspect he'll tell you some of that is from Grinnell. The offensive movement works regardless of the speed you're playing.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 02:42:54 PM
Eh... I don't see Grinnell in their system to be honest. Yes, they shoot a lot of threes, but in the flow of the offense with a ton of back-door cuts. They want those Princeton-style items to work from what I have seen. That said, not a lot of mid-range jumpers. I heard VanderWal talk about knowing it was close or deep... nothing else.
Though, gives me something to chat with Luke with prior to the game to make sure I do understand what I am watching. I love picking coaches' brains about this stuff.
I just mean the way they get open - screens and cuts - I suspect he'll tell you some of that is from Grinnell. The offensive movement works regardless of the speed you're playing.
Most coaches I talk to describe it as Princeton-style. Maybe not as slow and methodical, but watching it really feels like Princeton-style with their cuts and back-door cuts.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 03:07:22 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2017, 02:46:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2017, 02:42:54 PM
Eh... I don't see Grinnell in their system to be honest. Yes, they shoot a lot of threes, but in the flow of the offense with a ton of back-door cuts. They want those Princeton-style items to work from what I have seen. That said, not a lot of mid-range jumpers. I heard VanderWal talk about knowing it was close or deep... nothing else.
Though, gives me something to chat with Luke with prior to the game to make sure I do understand what I am watching. I love picking coaches' brains about this stuff.
I just mean the way they get open - screens and cuts - I suspect he'll tell you some of that is from Grinnell. The offensive movement works regardless of the speed you're playing.
Most coaches I talk to describe it as Princeton-style. Maybe not as slow and methodical, but watching it really feels like Princeton-style with their cuts and back-door cuts.
That's exactly right; it's a Princeton variant. John Beilien runs it at Michigan, Mike Maker ran it at Williams, and now Kevin App has the Ephs running it to near perfection.
Massey sez:
Augustana 72, Hanover 69 (AC 62%, HC 38%)
Whitman 81, Rochester 76 (WC 68%, UR 32%)
@ Babson 83, Keene State 73 (BC 84%, KSC 16%)
@ Middlebury 83, Williams 75 (MC 78%, WC 22%)
Williams downs host Middlebury, 79-75.
Augustana 77, Hanover 64
Williams 79, Middlebury 75
Babson 102, Keene State 79
Whitman 91, Rochester 87
Whitman 91, Rochester 87.
So the national semis are Augie v. Williams, and Babson v. Whitman.
I know its a 1 game playoff, so any of the 4 left can win it, but it looks like to me Babson/Whitman is the defacto "National Championship" game.
Maybe Babson/Whitman beat each other up in double OT while the other game is a 20 point rout that can take it easy (and that will likely be the earlier game on Friday meaning more rest too), but that's about the only way I can see Williams/Augie winning it.
Quote from: 7express on March 11, 2017, 09:19:44 PM
I know its a 1 game playoff, so any of the 4 left can win it, but it looks like to me Babson/Whitman is the defacto "National Championship" game.
Maybe Babson/Whitman beat each other up in double OT while the other game is a 20 point rout that can take it easy (and that will likely be the earlier game on Friday meaning more rest too), but that's about the only way I can see Williams/Augie winning it.
Whitman - Babson at 5pm on Friday; Williams - Augustana at 7:30.
7express, I'm sure Eph and Augie fans will happily encourage those sentiments. Always better to be underrated than overrated!
I don't see a de facto anything in this Final Four. I think it's wide open.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 11, 2017, 09:24:52 PM
7express, I'm sure Eph and Augie fans will happily encourage those sentiments. Always better to be underrated than overrated!
And considering 7express's 'success' in the national pickems contest this season, I'd say this is a good omen for the winner of the 7:30 game! ;D
I'd have to agree with 7 that the 5:00 game appears on paper to have the two stronger teams, but the cliche that games aren't played on paper still applies.
I would say Rochester is more swing offense than Princeton style...but every offense shares elements with others.
Quote from: WUH on March 11, 2017, 10:58:38 PM
I would say Rochester is more swing offense than Princeton style...but every offense shares elements with others.
I talked to Luke before the game... some stuff he told me was just between us for understandable reasons... but I can say this:
The only thing the have from Grinnell is his encouragement for them to shoot and gain confidence in shooting. Otherwise, they take parts of the Princeton stuff long with Beilien stuff in their offense. However, he doesn't call plays from the sideline. They see what they have in front of them and go into their different sets accordingly. It really is a hodgepodge of different ideas and looks being run as if a team had a motion offense... but that isn't part of their system.
I doubt we've ever had two teams reach the Final Four with 8 losses.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/32593925803_d1a38a81b0_b.jpg)
Quote from: AllStar on March 12, 2017, 09:08:54 PM
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/32593925803_d1a38a81b0_b.jpg)
What struck me the most about this is:
(1) Only two of the final four were ranked in the top ten at the start of the tournament, and
(2) Collectively, the final four have beaten just one top ten team between them in the tournament.
We all thought this year was wide open... this would certainly support that idea.
I've been collecting data for a couple of charts I'll post later in the week regarding d3hoops.com's preseason poll performance in terms of predicting the Final Four, and this actually isn't a bad year for the pollsters. It's not a great year, either, but it's not nearly the disaster that last year was, when Benedictine became only the sixth team in the history of the d3hoops.com poll to reach Salem after having been left off of everybody's preseason ballots.
Quote from: kiko on March 13, 2017, 12:02:00 AM
Quote from: AllStar on March 12, 2017, 09:08:54 PM
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/32593925803_d1a38a81b0_b.jpg)
What struck me the most about this is:
(1) Only two of the final four were ranked in the top ten at the start of the tournament, and
(2) Collectively, the final four have beaten just one top ten team between them in the tournament.
We all thought this year was wide open... this would certainly support that idea.
The early game teams were #1 and #3, with two losses between them. The later game teams were both ORV, with 16 losses between them.
As to point #2, true, but they beat all the teams who beat the top ten teams!
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2017, 12:16:31 AM
I've been collecting data for a couple of charts I'll post later in the week regarding d3hoops.com's preseason poll performance in terms of predicting the Final Four, and this actually isn't a bad year for the pollsters. It's not a great year, either, but it's not nearly the disaster that last year was, when Benedictine became only the sixth team in the history of the d3hoops.com poll to reach Salem after having been left off of everybody's preseason ballots.
Williams is now the seventh team to reach Salem despite zero preseason points. And IIRC you were among the many who felt Augie deserved zero preseason votes due to their graduation losses (they finished 18th due to voters who seem to automatically give initial votes to teams who did well the year before).
This year's Final Four features three teams that should be loaded for awhile. Whitman has NO seniors. The only threat to Whitman becoming a regular in Salem is the possibility of a D1 program poaching Coach Bridgeland, if he has any interest -- he's now quickly turned two different previously anonymous programs into rapid massive successes. He is right in the sweet spot of youth and great experience (now over a decade as a head coach) that D1 schools covet. And he's already been interim coach at Pepperdine, a big plus for D1 programs. An undefeated year plus a national title would probably be the cherry on the Sunday ... I'd be surprised if that occurs if he DIDN'T get some serious D1 interest.
Williams has only one contributing senior, and while he's our top player, there are a ton of young guys with substantial unrealized upside on the roster. The Ephs are just now scratching the surface and despite no longer having the luxury of being under the radar all year, they should be a contender for the next two years. Augustana is in the same boat, seemingly, with so many frosh and sophomores playing key roles right now.
Babson is the polar opposite: with Flannery, Nelson, Droney, Rice, and Bohmiller all graduating, it could be tough sledding for Babson next season. They will certainly be playing with a sense of purpose and desperation this weekend. Speaking of Jacks and Bohmiller, any word on their health status? Bohmiller I assume is out for the year. Jacks seems to be struggling in the very few minutes he is playing in the tourney. If those two guys were healthy, Babson would be the favorite; as is, it's amazing they've gotten this far with two of their top five missing. Flannery is just SO good that he can carry them vs. anyone it seems.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
This year's Final Four features three teams that should be loaded for awhile. Whitman has NO seniors. The only threat to Whitman becoming a regular in Salem is the possibility of a D1 program poaching Coach Bridgeland, if he has any interest -- he's now quickly turned two different previously anonymous programs into rapid massive successes. He is right in the sweet spot of youth and great experience (now over a decade as a head coach) that D1 schools covet. And he's already been interim coach at Pepperdine, a big plus for D1 programs. An undefeated year plus a national title would probably be the cherry on the Sunday ... I'd be surprised if that occurs if he DIDN'T get some serious D1 interest.
Williams has only one contributing senior, and while he's our top player, there are a ton of young guys with substantial unrealized upside on the roster. The Ephs are just now scratching the surface and despite no longer having the luxury of being under the radar all year, they should be a contender for the next two years. Augustana is in the same boat, seemingly, with so many frosh and sophomores playing key roles right now.
Babson is the polar opposite: with Flannery, Nelson, Droney, Rice, and Bohmiller all graduating, it could be tough sledding for Babson next season. They will certainly be playing with a sense of purpose and desperation this weekend. Speaking of Jacks and Bohmiller, any word on their health status? Bohmiller I assume is out for the year. Jacks seems to be struggling in the very few minutes he is playing in the tourney. If those two guys were healthy, Babson would be the favorite; as is, it's amazing they've gotten this far with two of their top five missing. Flannery is just SO good that he can carry them vs. anyone it seems.
It was described by the Babson coach during his interview on Hoopsville last night; I don't recall the exact words so it's best left to be heard on the archive replay.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
This year's Final Four features three teams that should be loaded for awhile. Whitman has NO seniors. The only threat to Whitman becoming a regular in Salem is the possibility of a D1 program poaching Coach Bridgeland, if he has any interest -- he's now quickly turned two different previously anonymous programs into rapid massive successes. He is right in the sweet spot of youth and great experience (now over a decade as a head coach) that D1 schools covet. And he's already been interim coach at Pepperdine, a big plus for D1 programs. An undefeated year plus a national title would probably be the cherry on the Sunday ... I'd be surprised if that occurs if he DIDN'T get some serious D1 interest.
Williams has only one contributing senior, and while he's our top player, there are a ton of young guys with substantial unrealized upside on the roster. The Ephs are just now scratching the surface and despite no longer having the luxury of being under the radar all year, they should be a contender for the next two years. Augustana is in the same boat, seemingly, with so many frosh and sophomores playing key roles right now.
Babson is the polar opposite: with Flannery, Nelson, Droney, Rice, and Bohmiller all graduating, it could be tough sledding for Babson next season. They will certainly be playing with a sense of purpose and desperation this weekend. Speaking of Jacks and Bohmiller, any word on their health status? Bohmiller I assume is out for the year. Jacks seems to be struggling in the very few minutes he is playing in the tourney. If those two guys were healthy, Babson would be the favorite; as is, it's amazing they've gotten this far with two of their top five missing. Flannery is just SO good that he can carry them vs. anyone it seems.
All the returning players are nice but getting to Salem involves more good fortune than people want to accept. All of those teams won a close game that they maybe could have lost and maybe don't win next year. You never know.
Oh, no doubt SAC. I mean just look at Augustana -- last year's loaded, heavily-favored, senior-dominated squad fell one game short of Salem, while this year's "rebuilding" team made it. Match-ups, injuries, luck, peaking at the right time, they all play a huge factor. But I do think Whitman (in particular), Augustana, and Williams all look fairly loaded heading into next year, along with a few other squads that bring nearly everyone back (North Central, Whitewater, Swarthmore, River Falls, Wash U. ...).
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2017, 01:08:41 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2017, 12:16:31 AM
I've been collecting data for a couple of charts I'll post later in the week regarding d3hoops.com's preseason poll performance in terms of predicting the Final Four, and this actually isn't a bad year for the pollsters. It's not a great year, either, but it's not nearly the disaster that last year was, when Benedictine became only the sixth team in the history of the d3hoops.com poll to reach Salem after having been left off of everybody's preseason ballots.
Williams is now the seventh team to reach Salem despite zero preseason points.
We both miscounted, Chuck. Williams is the
eighth team to reach Salem despite zero preseason points.
2002: Otterbein (national champion)
2002: Rochester (4th place)
2005: Calvin (3rd place)
2005: York PA (4th place)
2008: Ursinus (4th place)
2009: Franklin & Marshall (4th place)
2016: Benedictine (2nd place)
2017: Williams (?)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2017, 01:08:41 AMAnd IIRC you were among the many who felt Augie deserved zero preseason votes due to their graduation losses (they finished 18th due to voters who seem to automatically give initial votes to teams who did well the year before).
True, which doesn't look good for me now, although
you're the one who said that Trevor Seibring was going to be the CCIW Most Outstanding Player this season. ;) Seriously, though, given the circumstances I'll defend my charge that picking Augustana 18th in the preseason poll
was ridiculous. The Doggies lost their top six scorers/rebounders/minutes-eaters to graduation. As you said, it was a case of voters automatically giving their initial votes to teams who did well the year before, because in the same breath I pointed out that Elmhurst, which had lost
nine seniors from the year before, nevertheless drew a little bit of support in the preseason poll as well.
I strongly doubt that the pollsters who put Augie 18th or higher on their preseason ballots were doing their homework. Augustana returned three rotation reserves -- Dylan Sortillo, Chrishawn Orange, and Pierson Wofford (who left the team a month and a half ago) -- plus a trio of marginal end-of-the-bench guys in Jacob Johnston, Michael Hoekstra, and A.J. Dollmeyer (who has played a grand total of two minutes in the tourney thus far and is clearly now the third-string center). Nobody who took a long and serious look at Augie at the end of last season would've projected them anywhere near 18th in the nation in the 2016-17 preseason poll, because nobody could've foreseen: a) the phenomenal improvement of Johnston from garbage-minutes scrub as a junior to All-CCIW second-teamer as a senior; b) the emergence of sophomore Nolan Ebel, who was essentially relegated to JV duty last season, as a worthy successor to Hunter Hill at PG; c) the addition of a valuable D2-transfer contributor in Brett Benning; or d) the important roles that freshmen Micah Martin, Lucas Simon, and Donovan Ferguson would play for Augie this season.
Quote from: ronk on March 13, 2017, 08:29:44 AM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
This year's Final Four features three teams that should be loaded for awhile. Whitman has NO seniors. The only threat to Whitman becoming a regular in Salem is the possibility of a D1 program poaching Coach Bridgeland, if he has any interest -- he's now quickly turned two different previously anonymous programs into rapid massive successes. He is right in the sweet spot of youth and great experience (now over a decade as a head coach) that D1 schools covet. And he's already been interim coach at Pepperdine, a big plus for D1 programs. An undefeated year plus a national title would probably be the cherry on the Sunday ... I'd be surprised if that occurs if he DIDN'T get some serious D1 interest.
Williams has only one contributing senior, and while he's our top player, there are a ton of young guys with substantial unrealized upside on the roster. The Ephs are just now scratching the surface and despite no longer having the luxury of being under the radar all year, they should be a contender for the next two years. Augustana is in the same boat, seemingly, with so many frosh and sophomores playing key roles right now.
Babson is the polar opposite: with Flannery, Nelson, Droney, Rice, and Bohmiller all graduating, it could be tough sledding for Babson next season. They will certainly be playing with a sense of purpose and desperation this weekend. Speaking of Jacks and Bohmiller, any word on their health status? Bohmiller I assume is out for the year. Jacks seems to be struggling in the very few minutes he is playing in the tourney. If those two guys were healthy, Babson would be the favorite; as is, it's amazing they've gotten this far with two of their top five missing. Flannery is just SO good that he can carry them vs. anyone it seems.
It was described by the Babson coach during his interview on Hoopsville last night; I don't recall the exact words so it's best left to be heard on the archive replay.
I can't recall what he said about Jacks, but he indicated that Bohmiller has had a relapse of his concussion symptoms. While he didn't want to commit one way or the other and he made it clear that it's all up to the trainers and medical staff, the tone of his voice seemed to indicate that he doesn't expect to have Bohmiller available in Salem.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2017, 03:12:36 PM
Oh, no doubt SAC. I mean just look at Augustana -- last year's loaded, heavily-favored, senior-dominated squad fell one game short of Salem, while this year's "rebuilding" team made it. Match-ups, injuries, luck, peaking at the right time, they all play a huge factor. But I do think Whitman (in particular), Augustana, and Williams all look fairly loaded heading into next year, along with a few other squads that bring nearly everyone back (North Central, Whitewater, Swarthmore, River Falls, Wash U. ...).
Westminster, Mo ;D ;D ;) ;)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2017, 03:13:02 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2017, 01:08:41 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 13, 2017, 12:16:31 AM
I've been collecting data for a couple of charts I'll post later in the week regarding d3hoops.com's preseason poll performance in terms of predicting the Final Four, and this actually isn't a bad year for the pollsters. It's not a great year, either, but it's not nearly the disaster that last year was, when Benedictine became only the sixth team in the history of the d3hoops.com poll to reach Salem after having been left off of everybody's preseason ballots.
Williams is now the seventh team to reach Salem despite zero preseason points.
We both miscounted, Chuck. Williams is the eighth team to reach Salem despite zero preseason points.
2002: Otterbein (national champion)
2002: Rochester (4th place)
2005: Calvin (3rd place)
2005: York PA (4th place)
2008: Ursinus (4th place)
2009: Franklin & Marshall (4th place)
2016: Benedictine (2nd place)
2017: Williams (?)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2017, 01:08:41 AMAnd IIRC you were among the many who felt Augie deserved zero preseason votes due to their graduation losses (they finished 18th due to voters who seem to automatically give initial votes to teams who did well the year before).
True, which doesn't look good for me now, although you're the one who said that Trevor Seibring was going to be the CCIW Most Outstanding Player this season. ;) Seriously, though, given the circumstances I'll defend my charge that picking Augustana 18th in the preseason poll was ridiculous. The Doggies lost their top six scorers/rebounders/minutes-eaters to graduation. As you said, it was a case of voters automatically giving their initial votes to teams who did well the year before, because in the same breath I pointed out that Elmhurst, which had lost nine seniors from the year before, nevertheless drew a little bit of support in the preseason poll as well.
I strongly doubt that the pollsters who put Augie 18th or higher on their preseason ballots were doing their homework. Augustana returned three rotation reserves -- Dylan Sortillo, Chrishawn Orange, and Pierson Wofford (who left the team a month and a half ago) -- plus a trio of marginal end-of-the-bench guys in Jacob Johnston, Michael Hoekstra, and A.J. Dollmeyer (who has played a grand total of two minutes in the tourney thus far and is clearly now the third-string center). Nobody who took a long and serious look at Augie at the end of last season would've projected them anywhere near 18th in the nation in the 2016-17 preseason poll, because nobody could've foreseen: a) the phenomenal improvement of Johnston from garbage-minutes scrub as a junior to All-CCIW second-teamer as a senior; b) the emergence of sophomore Nolan Ebel, who was essentially relegated to JV duty last season, as a worthy successor to Hunter Hill at PG; c) the addition of a valuable D2-transfer contributor in Brett Benning; or d) the important roles that freshmen Micah Martin, Lucas Simon, and Donovan Ferguson would play for Augie this season.
Bold one: I didn't miscount - I just took your generally reliable word for it that there were six! ;D
Bold two: Yeah, I certainly blew that prediction. I expected a senior year for Trevor more on the lines of Zach Freeman a decade earlier, except with a better supporting cast that just might carry them to the top (Zach was first-team AA in 2007, but the graduation of an incredible 2006 senior class left him a 'Lone Ranger'). Still not sure whether I just over-hyped him or whether his back problems were actually a season-long (undisclosed) problem.
For overall excellence, I would definitely take Jordan Robinson for Regional POY. But it's hard to argue against Sabin's offensive output.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2017, 03:12:36 PM
Oh, no doubt SAC. I mean just look at Augustana -- last year's loaded, heavily-favored, senior-dominated squad fell one game short of Salem, while this year's "rebuilding" team made it. Match-ups, injuries, luck, peaking at the right time, they all play a huge factor. But I do think Whitman (in particular), Augustana, and Williams all look fairly loaded heading into next year, along with a few other squads that bring nearly everyone back (North Central, Whitewater, Swarthmore, River Falls, Wash U. ...).
I'm going to throw another name into that pile: Nebraska Wesleyan. The Prairie Wolves were IIAC co-champs this season but missed out on making the tourney -- no surprise there, since the IIAC rarely gets two teams into the dance. But next season NWU will return All-West Region first-teamer (and IIAC MVP) Cooper Cook (18.5 ppg, 6.8 rpg, .448 trey), All-West Region third-teamer (and the region's ROY) Nate Schimonitz (19.1 ppg, 4.9 rpg, 2:1 a:to), two other starters, and super-sub Deion Wells-Ross (12.7 ppg, 7.0 rpg while only averaging 22.4 mpg). All told, the Prairie Wolves return four starters, their top six scorers, and their top five rebounders from a team that went 18-8.
Jacks played last weekend. Bohmiller is day-to-day, I guess.
Jacks barely played in both games, just for a few minutes total, so something is clearly limiting him though ... he's Babson's fourth best guy when healthy. And without him there is no frontcourt depth at all. In all events barring foul trouble I doubt Flannery will spend a minute on the bench this weekend.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2017, 08:12:31 AM
Babson is the polar opposite: with Flannery, Nelson, Droney, Rice, and Bohmiller all graduating, it could be tough sledding for Babson next season.
Tough sledding might be a bit of an over statement... Comenale is first-team all conference and all-region as a junior, Lowry has now started in four NCAA tournament games at the point guard spot (putting up huge assist numbers) as a junior, and a healthy Bradley Jacks returns next season as well. Add in transfers (Babson has always made a killing on the transfer market) and that's a nice little core to bring back in the NEWMAC.
I'm sure Babson will be a solid team next year. But they lose 56 ppg (out of 83) and 25 rpg (out of 39). Those are massive losses to graduation. And you can't overstate the impact of losing a three-time all-American like Flannery. His presence on the floor makes things MUCH easier for his teammates. You think Comenale will see 1/5 of the open looks he now gets from 3 when he is the main focus of opposing defenses every single game? And it's not like there is a huge reservoir of underclass talent ready to step up -- zero sophomores on the roster, and only one frosh (Oftring) who looks like he might be a major contributor next season. Barring an insane recruiting class or several high-impact transfers, Babson is not gonna be a top 25 team next year.
Meanwhile, their rivals should be substantially stronger next year. I think Springfield is a dark horse top 25 team, returning its entire frosh-dominated roster including likely national-ROY Jake Ross, who will be to Springfield what Flannery has been to Babson (assuming he sticks around and stays healthy). They have loads of talent, just need experience. MIT, which beat Babson for the NEWMAC title, only graduates one senior, and MIT's star missed half the season this year. I could easily see Babson going from a top-two team nationally (and one that absolutely dominated its league for the last few years) to a middle-of-the-pack team in NEWMAC. That is what I mean by rough sledding.
The thing about Sabin that is impressive isn't the fact he averaged 30+ a game. It's that he shot 55% doing it. Adding 5.4 reb a game is a bonus as is his solid 3-pt shooting and way above average FT shooting.
CNU will still be good. Ramapo returns almost everybody. Of course, Whitman doesn't have a senior on the team, so I suspect they'll be pre-season #1 no matter what happens this weekend.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
CNU will still be good. Ramapo returns almost everybody. Of course, Whitman doesn't have a senior on the team, so I suspect they'll be pre-season #1 no matter what happens this weekend.
And Ramapo will disappoint again next year, just like every other year for the NJAC. I listened to the interview on Hoopsville prior to the tourney with the Ramapo coach and it was a good one. He really felt they had a shot at something special and they were hosting too. But, NJCU goes out in the 1st round and Ramapo loses at home on Saturday. Not sure if I can ever trust a NJAC team in the NCAAs.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2017, 04:25:29 PM
The thing about Sabin that is impressive isn't the fact he averaged 30+ a game. It's that he shot 55% doing it. Adding 5.4 reb a game is a bonus as is his solid 3-pt shooting and way above average FT shooting.
Solid three point shooting is a bit of an understatement.
His three point percentage was 48%!
So what are the rosters for the all-star game? I would hope Sabin is in it.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
So what are the rosters for the all-star game? I would hope Sabin is in it.
The rosters are on the front page.
Daniel Bahls, son of Augustana President Steven Bahls, is a 2004 graduate of Williams. Dad and son have a friendly wager on this. ;)
NABC D3 ALL STAR ROSTERS (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2017/03/nabc-all-star-rosters)
Yup it was on the front page but here are the rosters, Sabin is in it. I'm sure he will put on a show!
Quote from: ronk on March 15, 2017, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
So what are the rosters for the all-star game? I would hope Sabin is in it.
The rosters are on the front page.
OK. That must have been recent. I had checked earlier and I didn't think I saw them. Maybe I just missed it too.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
CNU will still be good. Ramapo returns almost everybody. Of course, Whitman doesn't have a senior on the team, so I suspect they'll be pre-season #1 no matter what happens this weekend.
And Ramapo will disappoint again next year, just like every other year for the NJAC. I listened to the interview on Hoopsville prior to the tourney with the Ramapo coach and it was a good one. He really felt they had a shot at something special and they were hosting too. But, NJCU goes out in the 1st round and Ramapo loses at home on Saturday. Not sure if I can ever trust a NJAC team in the NCAAs.
For decades the NJAC was a real force in d3 men's basketball. While the league only won one title (the infamous Prop 48 Rowan team of '96), it reached the national championship game four other times, losing it in '75 (Rowan), '89 (TCNJ), '01 (William Paterson), and '09 (Stockton), and NJAC teams reached the Final Four an impressive total of ten times in the tourney's first 27 years. But after that '09 Stockton outfit, it's like the whole circuit fell off of a cliff. The only NJAC team that's managed to get out of the first weekend of the tourney since then was the Stockton team of three years ago that was eliminated by Morrisville State in the sectional semifinals.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 04:03:26 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 15, 2017, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
So what are the rosters for the all-star game? I would hope Sabin is in it.
The rosters are on the front page.
OK. That must have been recent. I had checked earlier and I didn't think I saw them. Maybe I just missed it too.
Was up for 24 hours but we have a ton of feature content coming in, plus a couple of key coaching changes, so it got bumped.
I'm surprised NJAC has not performed better in light of the huge amount of New Jersey hoops talent, much of which is spread across D3. Susquehannah's Steven Weidlich was just named POY in his region. Tufts had huge tourney back-to-back games from Vinny Pace and Eric Savage. Williams' starting point guard is Mike Greenman. Catholic's star the past few years has been Jay Howard. All are Jersey hoops guys who left the state ... if NJAC can keep a few more guys like that home, it could easily return to prominence.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2017, 04:23:36 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 04:03:26 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 15, 2017, 02:38:30 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 02:14:18 PM
So what are the rosters for the all-star game? I would hope Sabin is in it.
The rosters are on the front page.
OK. That must have been recent. I had checked earlier and I didn't think I saw them. Maybe I just missed it too.
Was up for 24 hours but we have a ton of feature content coming in, plus a couple of key coaching changes, so it got bumped.
I did find it. I usually just check the "top stories" and didn't scroll down on my phone.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 15, 2017, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
CNU will still be good. Ramapo returns almost everybody. Of course, Whitman doesn't have a senior on the team, so I suspect they'll be pre-season #1 no matter what happens this weekend.
And Ramapo will disappoint again next year, just like every other year for the NJAC. I listened to the interview on Hoopsville prior to the tourney with the Ramapo coach and it was a good one. He really felt they had a shot at something special and they were hosting too. But, NJCU goes out in the 1st round and Ramapo loses at home on Saturday. Not sure if I can ever trust a NJAC team in the NCAAs.
For decades the NJAC was a real force in d3 men's basketball. While the league only won one title (the infamous Prop 48 Rowan team of '96), it reached the national championship game four other times, losing it in '75 (Rowan), '89 (TCNJ), '01 (William Paterson), and '09 (Stockton), and NJAC teams reached the Final Four an impressive total of ten times in the tourney's first 27 years. But after that '09 Stockton outfit, it's like the whole circuit fell off of a cliff. The only NJAC team that's managed to get out of the first weekend of the tourney since then was the Stockton team of three years ago that was eliminated by Morrisville State in the sectional semifinals.
I do recall past conversations about the conference's historical success, but as you pointed out and reminded us, their more recent exploits in the NCAAs have been short.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 15, 2017, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
CNU will still be good. Ramapo returns almost everybody. Of course, Whitman doesn't have a senior on the team, so I suspect they'll be pre-season #1 no matter what happens this weekend.
And Ramapo will disappoint again next year, just like every other year for the NJAC. I listened to the interview on Hoopsville prior to the tourney with the Ramapo coach and it was a good one. He really felt they had a shot at something special and they were hosting too. But, NJCU goes out in the 1st round and Ramapo loses at home on Saturday. Not sure if I can ever trust a NJAC team in the NCAAs.
For decades the NJAC was a real force in d3 men's basketball. While the league only won one title (the infamous Prop 48 Rowan team of '96), it reached the national championship game four other times, losing it in '75 (Rowan), '89 (TCNJ), '01 (William Paterson), and '09 (Stockton), and NJAC teams reached the Final Four an impressive total of ten times in the tourney's first 27 years. But after that '09 Stockton outfit, it's like the whole circuit fell off of a cliff. The only NJAC team that's managed to get out of the first weekend of the tourney since then was the Stockton team of three years ago that was eliminated by Morrisville State in the sectional semifinals.
Dumb and random question, but what conference was Upsala affiliated with?
Upsala was in the MAC. The Vikings were in the MAC Northern Division for over three decades, and, after the MAC was reconfigured, for the last two years of Upsala's existence the Vikings were in the MAC Freedom before the school closed its doors following the 1994-95 school year.
Quote from: kiko on March 15, 2017, 11:42:27 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 15, 2017, 04:13:44 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2017, 07:35:56 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2017, 05:55:39 PM
CNU will still be good. Ramapo returns almost everybody. Of course, Whitman doesn't have a senior on the team, so I suspect they'll be pre-season #1 no matter what happens this weekend.
And Ramapo will disappoint again next year, just like every other year for the NJAC. I listened to the interview on Hoopsville prior to the tourney with the Ramapo coach and it was a good one. He really felt they had a shot at something special and they were hosting too. But, NJCU goes out in the 1st round and Ramapo loses at home on Saturday. Not sure if I can ever trust a NJAC team in the NCAAs.
For decades the NJAC was a real force in d3 men's basketball. While the league only won one title (the infamous Prop 48 Rowan team of '96), it reached the national championship game four other times, losing it in '75 (Rowan), '89 (TCNJ), '01 (William Paterson), and '09 (Stockton), and NJAC teams reached the Final Four an impressive total of ten times in the tourney's first 27 years. But after that '09 Stockton outfit, it's like the whole circuit fell off of a cliff. The only NJAC team that's managed to get out of the first weekend of the tourney since then was the Stockton team of three years ago that was eliminated by Morrisville State in the sectional semifinals.
Dumb and random question, but what conference was Upsala affiliated with?
Although a NJ school, Upsala was not an NJAC school but instead, for most of its existence they were in the Middle-Atlantic(MAC)-'53-'77 and MAC-F in '93-95; in between, there were four divisions of the MAC and they weren't in either of the 2 that Scranton played during that period.
I actually encountered a former Upsala player wearing their T shirt this summer during a girls' AAU tourney.
Current Massey:
1. Whitman
3. Babson
5. Augustana
7. Williams
Massey sez:
Whitman 84, Babson 81 (WC 61%, BC 39%)
Augustana 72, Williams 71 (AC 53%, WC 47%)
Thus far this early semi is being played at Whitman's pace, in Whitman's style.
Wow. 45-20
Now 45-24
The Babson student that made the trip and is wearing a Beaver costume is pure brilliance.
It's 51-47 Whitman at the half.
Where's the video link?
Edit: Duh, found it at the top of the live stats.
Holy cow. Babson was down by 25 points, 45-20, with seven and a half minutes to go in the first half -- and went on a supersonic run to cut it to a 51-47 deficit at the half.
You know, Babson has turned the ball over 18 times. Whitman has caused some of these, but Babson is just careless. I missed watching the 1st half, so I don't know how Babson got back in it, but they don't look good here, down 10.
They must really play a different brand of ball out East. I guess I'm used to some kind of discipline from Point. Babson is up 6 with less than 2 minutes to play and they're launching 3s 10 seconds into the shot clock! Makes me scratch my head for sure! LOL ??? ;D
91-85 Babson
71-40 Babson the final 27 minutes and change.
Quote from: sac on March 17, 2017, 06:50:35 PM
71-40 Babson the final 27 minutes and change.
And that's only because the Blues made a late run. At one point Babson had outscored Whitman by THIRTY-EIGHT points since being down by 25!
While Williams and Augie both have probabilities somewhere north of zero, I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and predict that Babson will take home 'The Big Doorstop'.
Babson's length really bothered Whitman around the basket in the second half. The Blues missed a ton of shots within five feet of the rim, and it's because Babson forced them to take tougher, higher angles off of the backboard or made them take off-balance shots on the drive in order to avoid getting the shot blocked. That, plus Whitman going ice-cold from downtown and the huge rebounding disparity in Babson's favor, was what flipped the game in favor of the Beavers down the stretch.
The Beavers showed why seniors make all the difference. Their discipline and composure, first when down by 25 late in the first half, and then when Whitman jumped out to a 12-point lead in the first six minutes of the second half, were tremendous. Younger teams, and teams that haven't gotten that deep into the tourney before, almost never withstand those sorts of runs. Babson did, and it's a tribute to the veteran savvy of Flannery & Co.
Augie leads at the half, 42-34. I strongly doubt that Augie can continue shooting at this torrid pace, but if the Doggies keep playing this kind of defense, it probably won't matter. The Ephs are only 11-31 (.355) from the field and 4-15 (.267) from downtown -- and they're not getting any second chances, either, as Augie controls the boards, 21-9, and has given up only three offensive rebounds to Williams. Ferguson and Martin each have two blocks for Augustana.
Still early in the second half, but this one has the vibe of a game that's going down to the wire.
Augie moves on to the championship game, 90-79. Big shooting night for AC, over 60% from the field and over 50% from beyond the arc. Orange was the man in this one.
Augustana vs. Babson will be a rematch of a semifinal game from two seasons ago. This time, I think Babson will get revenge and own the Big Doorstop for 2017.
Great season for Williams ... and, of course, for Whitman, too.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2017, 09:28:56 PM
Augie moves on to the championship game, 90-79. Big shooting night for AC, over 60% from the field and over 50% from beyond the arc. Orange was the man in this one.
Augustana vs. Babson will be a rematch of a semifinal game from two seasons ago. This time, I think Babson will get revenge and own the Big Doorstop for 2017.
Great season for Williams ... and, of course, for Whitman, too.
No doubt the MVP, but Augie had FIVE players with 14+ points - definitely a TEAM win. Williams was much too dependent on Aronowitz - he was outstanding, but five beats one even if the one is Michael Jordan!
This is Augustana's fourth trip to the championship game. Unfortunately, they lost in 1981, 1993 and 2015. Here's hoping this post will jinx them to the opposite result in 2017! ;)
Fwiw, they also finished third in 1975 and 1976.
I'm still amazed that this Augie team is in the Championship game after losing to Point in the Final two years ago, returning everyone last year, but falling in the Elite 8 at home and then losing nearly everyone this year. What a great job by the coaching staff and players. Simply unbelievable, IMO.
Quote from: augie77 on March 17, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
Fwiw, they also finished third in 1975 and 1976.
It was worth a lot to Scranton who defeated Augie in the '76 semifinal on the way to its 1st national title. ;D Was there at the game.
Quote from: ronk on March 17, 2017, 10:52:59 PM
Quote from: augie77 on March 17, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
Fwiw, they also finished third in 1975 and 1976.
It was worth a lot to Scranton who defeated Augie in the '76 semifinal on the way to its 1st national title. ;D Was there at the game.
You're old. :P ::) ;D :D :)
Ronk and I were both there (Albright College in Reading, Pa) in 1976. He was smiling. I was not. >:(
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2017, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 17, 2017, 10:52:59 PM
Quote from: augie77 on March 17, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
Fwiw, they also finished third in 1975 and 1976.
It was worth a lot to Scranton who defeated Augie in the '76 semifinal on the way to its 1st national title. ;D Was there at the game.
You're old. :P ::) ;D :D :)
Yes, it was back when we practiced jump ball plays before the alternate possession rule came into being.
Quote from: augie77 on March 17, 2017, 10:57:49 PM
Ronk and I were both there (Albright College in Reading, Pa) in 1976. He was smiling. I was not. >:(
Let's hope we both will be smiling tomorrow night. Tough task ahead as Babson is very good and Flannery is a stud. Hope Augie can keep it rolling for one more game!
Quote from: ronk on March 17, 2017, 11:01:38 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2017, 10:55:14 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 17, 2017, 10:52:59 PM
Quote from: augie77 on March 17, 2017, 10:14:16 PM
Fwiw, they also finished third in 1975 and 1976.
It was worth a lot to Scranton who defeated Augie in the '76 semifinal on the way to its 1st national title. ;D Was there at the game.
You're old. :P ::) ;D :D :)
Yes, it was back when we practiced jump ball plays before the alternate possession rule came into being.
LOL :o ::) 8-) +1!
Babson 79
Augustana 78
Tremendous game, exciting finish.
A fitting end for one of the best D3 players we have seen. Congrats to Flannery on an outstanding game/season/career! He obviously had a lot of help along side him, and they are all great players. When things were clicking for Babo they did not have too many weaknesses! Enjoyed another great year following d3 hoops, thanks to Dave, Pat and Ryan along with the rest of the people at d3sports.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3940/33519232025_24d7d45a5f_b.jpg)
CBS put the championship game online - you can watch the whole thing here: http://www.cbssports.com/general/video/2017-diii-basketball-championship-full-game/
If you look very closely, you can see Gordon and I sitting on the left side of press row.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2017, 07:30:17 PM
CBS put the championship game online - you can watch the whole thing here: http://www.cbssports.com/general/video/2017-diii-basketball-championship-full-game/
If you look very closely, you can see Gordon and I sitting on the left side of press row.
Wish they did that 2 years ago. It took me over a year to get a copy of the Pointer championship game and all it was was a video feed. It wasn't the broadcasted game, it had no commentary, score update or anything.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2017, 11:06:34 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2017, 07:30:17 PM
CBS put the championship game online - you can watch the whole thing here: http://www.cbssports.com/general/video/2017-diii-basketball-championship-full-game/
If you look very closely, you can see Gordon and I sitting on the left side of press row.
Wish they did that 2 years ago. It took me over a year to get a copy of the Pointer championship game and all it was was a video feed. It wasn't the broadcasted game, it had no commentary, score update or anything.
And after all that work, it might get vacated. I wonder if the tape will magically erase like Marty McFly's family photo?
What's the story on UW-Stevens Point? If they end up forfeiting the 2015 season, including the national championship game, does that make Augustana the 2015 national champion?
Quote from: augie77 on March 22, 2017, 02:11:32 PM
What's the story on UW-Stevens Point? If they end up forfeiting the 2015 season, including the national championship game, does that make Augustana the 2015 national champion?
No. No one is declared a champion. The game is simply vacated and the loss remains on Augie's record. They don't hand the title to the other team. See Thomas More's case.
As for the investigation... we expect the NCAA to reveal their investigation and punishments anytime between now and mid-April. The exact timing is tough to nail down. There is basically a 100 or 150 day timeline from the moment the NCAA gives UWSP their initial report until all the the appeals, hearings, and such are done and the report is due.
And as for the title game being online... it has been missing for 2014, 2015, and 2016. They released it for 2013 and then not again until this year. It has been a topic I have harped on for all of those years... finally we got the link this year (and it wasn't forgotten).
Congrats to Babson on it's first ever championship! Also a congrats to the three other teams in Salem--all 3 have a chance to be back soon. Giovanine has a dangerous group of talent coming back but the way he handled himself was disrespectful and arrogant once again. Ripping his jacket off in the Williams game and making it seemingly all about himself. It looked like he was having words with babson players post game unfortunately. As an annual goer of the Salem Final Four its really a shame seeing such poor sportsmanship.
Quote from: whyDiii on March 22, 2017, 09:12:45 PM
Congrats to Babson on it's first ever championship! Also a congrats to the three other teams in Salem--all 3 have a chance to be back soon. Giovanine has a dangerous group of talent coming back but the way he handled himself was disrespectful and arrogant once again. Ripping his jacket off in the Williams game and making it seemingly all about himself. It looked like he was having words with babson players post game unfortunately. As an annual goer of the Salem Final Four its really a shame seeing such poor sportsmanship.
In the CCIW, we've gotten quite used to Grey Giovanine. A standing joke is giving an over/under on how many minutes into a given game he will fling his jacket into the crowd (they actually have a designated 'jacket retriever', unless that is just an 'urban legend'). He is clearly a coaching 'genius', but his 'act' wears thin.
But hard to argue with the results - this is three straight final fours, and two title games, though no titles. Since they lost 4 of their last 5 games before the postseason, did ANYONE serious predict coming within a blocked layup of winning the title?!
They were Elite 8 last year, losing to St. Thomas at home. But still, impressive...
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2017, 01:46:47 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2017, 11:06:34 AM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2017, 07:30:17 PM
CBS put the championship game online - you can watch the whole thing here: http://www.cbssports.com/general/video/2017-diii-basketball-championship-full-game/
If you look very closely, you can see Gordon and I sitting on the left side of press row.
Wish they did that 2 years ago. It took me over a year to get a copy of the Pointer championship game and all it was was a video feed. It wasn't the broadcasted game, it had no commentary, score update or anything.
And after all that work, it might get vacated. I wonder if the tape will magically erase like Marty McFly's family photo?
You're killing me, Smalls.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 22, 2017, 10:43:38 PM
They were Elite 8 last year, losing to St. Thomas at home. But still, impressive...
Oh, geez. I knew that, having just posted recently that IWU ALMOST matched them '12-'14 with FF, Sweet 16, FF. :-[
I saw on twitter that the NABC Coach of the Year was Stephen Brennan from Babson, and I would like to congratulate him and his team for a very deserving National Championship Title. He had a lot of talent and in my eyes recruiting is the most important aspect of being a Collegiate Basketball Coach. But I think that he would have been the third or fourth coach I would have given the honor "Coach of the Year." I would have voted Grey Giovanine, bringing a team to the Final Four that graduated two All-Americans and a handful of other seniors that were the main players for Augie the past 3 years. There is also a good argument for Eric Bridgeland of Whitman who had an undefeated season and Final Four appearance before losing a tough battle to Babson. Tim Howell is a very good player but he isn't in the same tier as Flannery is (and not many that have played D3 hoops are so that is not a shot at Howell), he just doesn't affect the game in as many ways. Not to mention there were two other D2 transfers on the Beaver National Championship squad. In my eyes both of those Coaches did more with less than Brennan did. But it is hard to argue against the Coach that is holding the Walnut and Bronze at the end of March. I would just like to hear what you guys all think about this? I know it is not of significant importance but it is a good talker in the d3 hoops abyss that is April to October.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 22, 2017, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: whyDiii on March 22, 2017, 09:12:45 PM
Congrats to Babson on it's first ever championship! Also a congrats to the three other teams in Salem--all 3 have a chance to be back soon. Giovanine has a dangerous group of talent coming back but the way he handled himself was disrespectful and arrogant once again. Ripping his jacket off in the Williams game and making it seemingly all about himself. It looked like he was having words with babson players post game unfortunately. As an annual goer of the Salem Final Four its really a shame seeing such poor sportsmanship.
In the CCIW, we've gotten quite used to Grey Giovanine. A standing joke is giving an over/under on how many minutes into a given game he will fling his jacket into the crowd (they actually have a designated 'jacket retriever', unless that is just an 'urban legend'). He is clearly a coaching 'genius', but his 'act' wears thin.
But hard to argue with the results - this is three straight final fours, and two title games, though no titles. Since they lost 4 of their last 5 games before the postseason, did ANYONE serious predict coming within a blocked layup of winning the title?!
i had the coat coming off in the first five minutes and he made it until the 2nd half which must be some kind of record! Arrogant - yes, but what coach does not have some type of ego. Good x and o coach - yes. Good team next year - yes, but so will at least three others in the CCIW so expect another battle next season with CCIW beating each other up.
Is the coat coming off a motivator to his players - yes, to a certain extent. Does he constantly talk to his players all game - yes, particularly when free throws being shot which is not too classy.
Quote from: Smitty Oom on March 23, 2017, 12:37:19 PM
I saw on twitter that the NABC Coach of the Year was Stephen Brennan from Babson, and I would like to congratulate him and his team for a very deserving National Championship Title. He had a lot of talent and in my eyes recruiting is the most important aspect of being a Collegiate Basketball Coach. But I think that he would have been the third or fourth coach I would have given the honor "Coach of the Year." I would have voted Grey Giovanine, bringing a team to the Final Four that graduated two All-Americans and a handful of other seniors that were the main players for Augie the past 3 years. There is also a good argument for Eric Bridgeland of Whitman who had an undefeated season and Final Four appearance before losing a tough battle to Babson. Tim Howell is a very good player but he isn't in the same tier as Flannery is (and not many that have played D3 hoops are so that is not a shot at Howell), he just doesn't affect the game in as many ways. Not to mention there were two other D2 transfers on the Beaver National Championship squad. In my eyes both of those Coaches did more with less than Brennan did. But it is hard to argue against the Coach that is holding the Walnut and Bronze at the end of March. I would just like to hear what you guys all think about this? I know it is not of significant importance but it is a good talker in the d3 hoops abyss that is April to October.
There is a reason that for the first time, I believe, in our history we gave it as a Co-Coach of the Year honor: Bridgeland and Giovanine.
I almost went to the All-American page to see if d3hoops selected their Coach of the Year, and then decided to just post my message anyways. Now I look dumb LOL!
http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2017 (http://www.d3hoops.com/awards/all-americans/men/2017)
I think that d3hoops did a great job making all of their selections! :D
I'm giving him a little time before I call, but I suspect Brennan was under a tremendous pressure to win this year. With the team he had, anything short of that title would've been a disappointment. At the same time, he had to keep his players from feeling the pressure. I've not seen a bigger difference in demeanor on a coach than on Brennan pre and post championship game.
I'm happy for him getting some recognition.
An off-season hypothetical for your discussion pleasure: had Duncan Robinson not transferred to Michigan, he would have been a senior at Williams this year. Would Joey Flannery have still been national POY, or would it more likely have been DR?
(Don't know where to post this, but I'll do it here.) Read a great line today (referencing the indefinitely postponed vote on Trumpcare) - they didn't suffer a defeat; they had an 'alternative victory'. I can hardly wait 'til this reaches sports: can you envision Grey Giovanine saying 'We didn't lose the title game; we had an alternative victory'! :o ;D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2017, 06:27:00 PM
An off-season hypothetical for your discussion pleasure: had Duncan Robinson not transferred to Michigan, he would have been a senior at Williams this year. Would Joey Flannery have still been national POY, or would it more likely have been DR?
I'm currently watching the Michigan/Oregon game. Just to complicate matters, I'd say Flannery would have no chance against the D1 Robinson, but DR looks almost nothing like the 'wispy' guy I saw in Salem. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the Michigan strength coach is better than the Williams strength coach (if they even have such a specialist), so the Williams senior DR might not be the UM DR. While he is greatly improved, he still is a defensive liability against D1 players, which is why he is not a starter. But he is still a GREAT shooter, whether D3, D1, or NBA.
Haven't we had moral victories for decades?
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 23, 2017, 11:13:08 PM
Haven't we had moral victories for decades?
Yeah, but alternative victories seems somehow different. After all, alternative facts are hardly equal to moral facts! :o ;D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2017, 08:16:55 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 23, 2017, 06:27:00 PM
An off-season hypothetical for your discussion pleasure: had Duncan Robinson not transferred to Michigan, he would have been a senior at Williams this year. Would Joey Flannery have still been national POY, or would it more likely have been DR?
I'm currently watching the Michigan/Oregon game. Just to complicate matters, I'd say Flannery would have no chance against the D1 Robinson, but DR looks almost nothing like the 'wispy' guy I saw in Salem. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the Michigan strength coach is better than the Williams strength coach (if they even have such a specialist), so the Williams senior DR might not be the UM DR. While he is greatly improved, he still is a defensive liability against D1 players, which is why he is not a starter. But he is still a GREAT shooter, whether D3, D1, or NBA.
Ypsi, not many stentght and conditioning coaches have the credentials of the guy at Michigan. He has a reputation of taking 190 lbs weaklings and turning them into NBA type bodies. John Belien pursued him for two years to get him to come to Michigan.
I wasn't quite sure where to put this...
I really have no interest in D1 women's softball, but the field was announced this weekend and something unique happened. Every team from the SEC got a bid. That's 13 teams from one conference made the NCAA tourney.
For women's softball, there are 32 AQs and 32 at-large bids. I think there are around 300 teams in D1.
I imagine, because of how D3 is set up, we would never see a whole conference represented. Even if D3 was set up like D1, that would be a crazy sight to see all 8 WIAC teams in the NCAAs or all 9 CCIW teams...maybe all 11 NESCAC teams, heck, we had 5.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 15, 2017, 10:49:21 PM
I wasn't quite sure where to put this...
I really have no interest in D1 women's softball, but the field was announced this weekend and something unique happened. Every team from the SEC got a bid. That's 13 teams from one conference made the NCAA tourney.
For women's softball, there are 32 AQs and 32 at-large bids. I think there are around 300 teams in D1.
I imagine, because of how D3 is set up, we would never see a whole conference represented. Even if D3 was set up like D1, that would be a crazy sight to see all 8 WIAC teams in the NCAAs or all 9 CCIW teams...maybe all 11 NESCAC teams, heck, we had 5.
Not only did the SEC get all 13 in, 8 of them were seeded (only top 16 are seeded) ... the Pac 12 got 8 of it's 9 teams in. So that's 21 out of 64 teams from 2 conferences and 19 of the 32 at large bids.
Had to have a look at some of those records.. Missouri was 11th in conference at 7-16 and a conference worst 29-26 overall record. :-\
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 15, 2017, 10:49:21 PM
I wasn't quite sure where to put this...
I really have no interest in D1 women's softball, but the field was announced this weekend and something unique happened. Every team from the SEC got a bid. That's 13 teams from one conference made the NCAA tourney.
For women's softball, there are 32 AQs and 32 at-large bids. I think there are around 300 teams in D1.
I imagine, because of how D3 is set up, we would never see a whole conference represented. Even if D3 was set up like D1, that would be a crazy sight to see all 8 WIAC teams in the NCAAs or all 9 CCIW teams...maybe all 11 NESCAC teams, heck, we had 5.
D3 women's tennis this year saw six NESCAC squads get in (in a 49 team tournament), including a 6-9 Amherst squad. So, just about anything is theoretically possible, I suppose.
So a 17-10 Oshkosh team making the tourney doesn't seem so bad now!
Minnesota's softball team was 54-3, Big 20 10 tourney and regular season champs and they didn't get seeded. Ouch!
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 16, 2017, 07:42:31 AM
So a 17-10 Oshkosh team making the tourney doesn't seem so bad now!
Minnesota's softball team was 54-3, Big 20 tourney and regular season champs and they didn't get seeded. Ouch!
There's unbelievable outrage over here and most of the people upset couldn't tell you where the Gophers play or name a player. It's another strong argument to get rid of the RPI or other similar ranking system and go to a system that includes margin of victory so it matters more how you played against your schedule rather than merely who happened to be on the schedule.
http://deadspin.com/the-top-ranked-softball-team-in-the-country-is-somehow-1795244602?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://deadspin.com/the-top-ranked-softball-team-in-the-country-is-somehow-1795244602?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
A lot of outrage here in MN! The Coaches Poll came out today and the Gopher's were the top ranked team... We thought we had Pool C disagreement between posters/committee, but this discrepancy is a whole new level!
Quote from: AO on May 16, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 16, 2017, 07:42:31 AM
So a 17-10 Oshkosh team making the tourney doesn't seem so bad now!
Minnesota's softball team was 54-3, Big 20 tourney and regular season champs and they didn't get seeded. Ouch!
There's unbelievable outrage over here and most of the people upset couldn't tell you where the Gophers play or name a player. It's another strong argument to get rid of the RPI or other similar ranking system and go to a system that includes margin of victory so it matters more how you played against your schedule rather than merely who happened to be on the schedule.
Softball has a series of mercy rules (as do other sports)... making the margin of victory a tough thing to use as a measuring stick. Depending on the spread and at what point in the game... would affect that data. One team might beat someone by ten in five innings, but another might win by 15 or more because they had 9 after 5 and then scored 6 or more in a later inning. Too many variables that makes margin of victory a very bad, IMHO, measure involved in rankings and selections - not to mention the sportsmanship factor I think is just as important.
Quote from: AO on May 16, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 16, 2017, 07:42:31 AM
So a 17-10 Oshkosh team making the tourney doesn't seem so bad now!
Minnesota's softball team was 54-3, Big 20 tourney and regular season champs and they didn't get seeded. Ouch!
There's unbelievable outrage over here and most of the people upset couldn't tell you where the Gophers play or name a player. It's another strong argument to get rid of the RPI or other similar ranking system and go to a system that includes margin of victory so it matters more how you played against your schedule rather than merely who happened to be on the schedule.
The Deadspin article says that Minnesota was No. 11 by RPI, so being an unseeded team was a committee decision that actually went against RPI to some degree. Also interesting that the committee had them No. 7 on May 6 but dropped them out of the Top 16 after they went 6-0 to finish the year. It really just seems like the committee made a mistake.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 16, 2017, 03:18:22 PM
Quote from: AO on May 16, 2017, 10:58:48 AM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on May 16, 2017, 07:42:31 AM
So a 17-10 Oshkosh team making the tourney doesn't seem so bad now!
Minnesota's softball team was 54-3, Big 20 tourney and regular season champs and they didn't get seeded. Ouch!
There's unbelievable outrage over here and most of the people upset couldn't tell you where the Gophers play or name a player. It's another strong argument to get rid of the RPI or other similar ranking system and go to a system that includes margin of victory so it matters more how you played against your schedule rather than merely who happened to be on the schedule.
The Deadspin article says that Minnesota was No. 11 by RPI, so being an unseeded team was a committee decision that actually went against RPI to some degree. Also interesting that the committee had them No. 7 on May 6 but dropped them out of the Top 16 after they went 6-0 to finish the year. It really just seems like the committee made a mistake.
What? That happens? ROFL
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 16, 2017, 03:18:22 PM
The Deadspin article says that Minnesota was No. 11 by RPI, so being an unseeded team was a committee decision that actually went against RPI to some degree. Also interesting that the committee had them No. 7 on May 6 but dropped them out of the Top 16 after they went 6-0 to finish the year. It really just seems like the committee made a mistake.
They're not admitting to any mistake. Their official statement: https://twitter.com/JaceFrederick/status/864244645324353536
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 16, 2017, 03:06:55 PM
Softball has a series of mercy rules (as do other sports)... making the margin of victory a tough thing to use as a measuring stick. Depending on the spread and at what point in the game... would affect that data. One team might beat someone by ten in five innings, but another might win by 15 or more because they had 9 after 5 and then scored 6 or more in a later inning. Too many variables that makes margin of victory a very bad, IMHO, measure involved in rankings and selections - not to mention the sportsmanship factor I think is just as important.
The difference between winning by 10 or 15 (a comfortable win) is practically nothing for most margin of victory rating systems. For softball you could make it have zero impact. Here's how Massey explains how it works with football scores:
QuoteThe main version does consider scoring margin, but its effect is diminished as the game becomes a blowout. The score of each game is translated into a number between 0 and 1. For example 30-29 might give 0.5270, while 45-21 gives 0.9433 and 56-3 gives around 0.9998
The maximum is topped at 1, so the curve flattens out for blowout scores. In addition, I do a Bayesian correction to reward each winner, regardless of the game's score.
The net effect is that there is no incentive to run up the score. However, a "comfortable" margin (say 10 points) is preferred to a narrow margin (say 3 points).
In summary, winning games against quality competition overshadows blowout scores against inferior opponents. Each week, the results from the entire season are re-evaluated based on the latest results. Consistent winners are rewarded, and a blowout score has only marginal effect on a team's rating.
I would argue that baseball and softball have more in-game variability than, say, basketball or especially football, so the 54-3 record should outweigh the lesser strength of schedule you get in the Big Ten.
The committee obviously sees things differently.