Schedules are slowly making their way to the World Wide Web. Here are a few:
- ONU - http://www.onusports.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule. I like their non conference schedule - several of the top teams based on last year's play
- Marietta - http://pioneers.marietta.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
- Muskingum - http://fightingmuskies.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
- Rose-Hulman - http://athletics.rose-hulman.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
- Earlham - http://www.goearlham.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
While not in the GL - I include Calvin's schedule as three of their 4 non conference games are against GL teams (OWU, Oberlin and CWRU) - another good job of setting up challenging games: http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
- Bluffton - http://www.bluffton.edu/athletics/menssoccer/2017/schedule.html
OWU: http://battlingbishops.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc (http://battlingbishops.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc)
Non-conference (2016 records): @Calvin (23-3-0), @Hope (6-12-1), Millikin (10-7-0), St. Thomas (20-2-3), @Ohio Northern (17-2-4), @John Carroll (12-6-3), Case Western (5-9-4), Capital (14-4-2), @Thomas More (10-9-1).
Pretty challenging, as expected. Four tourney teams, two Final Four teams. The usual top Great Lakes teams (including OAC's top 3) minus Carnegie Mellon, who seems to avoid most top GL teams in non-conference. Switching Otterbein for JCU is a nice pickup, as JCU should be very, very good next year. Hanover off, but I think they'll regress next year, while Thomas More should be better. Weakest spots are probably Millikin and Hope, but Hope has to get better at some point, the facilities and history are too good.
Capital's schedule - not yet on the website:
Non-Conference: Salisbury(A) and St. Mary's(A) (MD) Sept 1&2 - tourney in MD; St. Thomas(H) and Millikan(H) - same weekend as OWU's schedule; Denison(H); Washington&Lee(A); Wooster(H); Thomas More(A); OWU(A)
Some definite challenges here - especially on the road. Should Denison and TM bounce back - which I would expect - winning 5+ from this group would be an accomplishment.
Quote from: Domino1195 on February 28, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
Schedules are slowly making their way to the World Wide Web. Here are a few:
- ONU - http://www.onusports.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://www.onusports.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule). I like their non conference schedule - several of the top teams based on last year's play
- Marietta - http://pioneers.marietta.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc (http://pioneers.marietta.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc)
- Muskingum - http://fightingmuskies.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://fightingmuskies.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
- Rose-Hulman - http://athletics.rose-hulman.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://athletics.rose-hulman.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
- Earlham - http://www.goearlham.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://www.goearlham.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
While not in the GL - I include Calvin's schedule as three of their 4 non conference games are against GL teams (OWU, Oberlin and CWRU) - another good job of setting up challenging games: http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
- Bluffton - http://www.bluffton.edu/athletics/menssoccer/2017/schedule.html (http://www.bluffton.edu/athletics/menssoccer/2017/schedule.html)
- John Carroll - http://www.jcusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc& (http://www.jcusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc&) - 4 tournament teams from 2016, Medaille a finalist in the AMCC tourney. If Case and Denison bounce back their preseason will be very challenging!
Manchester is up -- playing Wisconsin Whitewater, ONU and Depauw.
http://www.muspartans.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
Case's schedule is up. Another tough year ahead for the Spartans.
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
Quote from: UAA Insider on April 03, 2017, 07:28:58 PM
Case's schedule is up. Another tough year ahead for the Spartans.
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
Wow! On top of the UAA slate, they have DePauw (A), Calvin (H), John Carroll (H), Ohio Wesleyan (A), Lycoming (H), Kenyon (A), Oberlin (H), North Park (H). That's the 2016 runner-up/2015 semifinalist, the NCAC's top four teams, one of the OAC's top two teams (and last year's champ), and one of the CCIW's top two teams. Just can't understand why they didn't schedule Ohio Northern?!?! JUST KIDDING!
Quote from: Flying Weasel on April 04, 2017, 12:42:54 PM
Quote from: UAA Insider on April 03, 2017, 07:28:58 PM
Case's schedule is up. Another tough year ahead for the Spartans.
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
Wow! On top of the UAA slate, they have DePauw (A), Calvin (H), John Carroll (H), Ohio Wesleyan (A), Lycoming (H), Kenyon (A), Oberlin (H), North Park (H). That's the 2016 runner-up/2015 semifinalist, the NCAC's top four teams, one of the OAC's top two teams (and last year's champ), and one of the CCIW's top two teams. Just can't understand why they didn't schedule Ohio Northern?!?! JUST KIDDING!
Agreed! ONU should be interesting: they graduate a significant portion of games played last year, but have quality sophs and juniors to fill in. Wonder if they will struggle to start the year until the inexperienced gain game experience. John Carroll brings everyone back - should be the preseason favorite in the OAC.
- Geneva - http://www.geneva.edu/athletics/mens/soccer/msoccer_schedule (http://www.jcusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc&) - Not as strong a preason challenge as other 2016 NCAA Great Lakes tournament teams: PSU Behrend, ONU the only tourney teams; Fredonia coming off a good season; maybe Allegheny bounces back (typo on their website).
The 2017 schedule for Wabash College:
http://sports.wabash.edu/schedule.aspx?schedule=387&path=msoc (http://sports.wabash.edu/schedule.aspx?schedule=387&path=msoc)
Clougher receives college's highest honor...
http://www.kenyon.edu/middle-path/story/three-cheers/
Congratulations to him and very impressive!
Kenyon schedule posted. Carnegie Mellon and Case Western on the schedule, both home matches for Kenyon.
http://athletics.kenyon.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Quote from: Domino1195 on March 22, 2017, 12:00:21 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on February 28, 2017, 04:29:17 PM
Schedules are slowly making their way to the World Wide Web. Here are a few:
- ONU - http://www.onusports.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://www.onusports.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule). I like their non conference schedule - several of the top teams based on last year's play
- Marietta - http://pioneers.marietta.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc (http://pioneers.marietta.edu/schedule.aspx?path=msoc)
- Muskingum - http://fightingmuskies.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://fightingmuskies.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
- Rose-Hulman - http://athletics.rose-hulman.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://athletics.rose-hulman.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
- Earlham - http://www.goearlham.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://www.goearlham.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
While not in the GL - I include Calvin's schedule as three of their 4 non conference games are against GL teams (OWU, Oberlin and CWRU) - another good job of setting up challenging games: http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule (http://www.calvinknights.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule)
- Bluffton - http://www.bluffton.edu/athletics/menssoccer/2017/schedule.html (http://www.bluffton.edu/athletics/menssoccer/2017/schedule.html)
- John Carroll - http://www.jcusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc& (http://www.jcusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc&) - 4 tournament teams from 2016, Medaille a finalist in the AMCC tourney. If Case and Denison bounce back their preseason will be very challenging!
- Geneva - https://www.geneva.edu/athletics/mens/soccer/msoccer_schedule (https://www.geneva.edu/athletics/mens/soccer/msoccer_schedule) - interested in that ONU game; PSU-Berhend and Fredonia for some preseason spice
- Thomas More - http://www.tmcsaints.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule - another strong preseason set of games
- Denison - http://www.denisonbigred.com/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule
- Mount Union - http://athletics.mountunion.edu/sports/msoc/2017-18/schedule - some challenges in the preseason
Denison playing Carnegie Mellon, at CMU. Don't think they have played each other in a while.
Who are the best Teams in the Great Lakes for 2017?
Which Conferences will dominate the Region?
Preseason Scrimmages:
Date | Away | Home | Time |
| Tue. 22 | Malone | Mount Union | 7:30 PM |
| Tue. 22 | Mt Vernon Nazarene | Capital | 6:00 PM |
| Wed. 23 | Baldwin Wallace | Denison | 7:00 PM |
| Fri. 25 | DePauw | Ill. Wesleyan | 5:00 PM |
| Sat. 26 | Earlham | Muskingum | 4:00 PM |
| Sat. 26 | Capital | Oberlin | 7:00 PM |
| Sun. 27 | Principia | DePauw | 5:00 PM |
| Tue. 29 | Case Western | Baldwin Wallace | 2:00 PM |
Mon 8/21 - OWU @ Cleveland St
Others??
NCAC Poll: http://www.northcoast.org/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/PreseasonPoll (http://www.northcoast.org/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/PreseasonPoll)
- Kenyon
- OWU
- Oberlin
- Wabash (tied for 3rd)
- DePauw
- Denison
- Allegheny
- Hiram
- Wooster (tied for 8th)
- Wittenberg
OAC Poll: http://www.oac.org/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/2017__Soccer_poll.pdf
- John Carroll
- ONU
- Capital
- Marietta
- Otterbein
- Mt. Union
Heartland Conference: http://www.heartlandconf.org/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/20170815kwo0x9
- Transylvania
- Rose-Hulman
- Hanover
- Mt. St. Joseph
- Manchester
- Earlham
- Anderson
- Franklin
- Defiance
- Bluffton
AMCC Poll: http://www.amccsports.org/sports/msoc/2017-18/releases/Preseason_Coaches_Poll
- PSU-Behrend
- Medaille
- PSU-Altoona
- La Roche
- Franciscan
- Mt. Aloysius
- Pitt-Bradford
- D'Youville
- Pitt-Greensburg
- Hilbert
President's Athletic Conference: http://www.pacathletics.org/news/2017/8/14/mens-soccer-msoc-prepoll.aspx
- Geneva
- Thomas More
- Grove City
- Wash & Jeff
- Westminster (tied for 4th)
- Bethany
- Waynesburg
- St. Vincent
- Thiel
In the OAC, John Carroll (2-0) had a strong showing, beating #5 Kenyon. The game should have easily been tied 1-1, where Kenyon missed an open net. JCU has strong freshman, and the team looks better than Last year. Should hop up in national rankings after Penn State-B on Friday.
ONU (0-1-1) lost to Geneva 3-1 and tied its other match; you may have seen the Bike that was scored by Geneva. ONU's best defender is taking the year off and studying abroad, but will maintain his eligibility and come back next season.
'Etta and Heidelberg start 2-0 as well.
Quote from: bestfancle on September 05, 2017, 03:32:59 PMONU (0-1-1) lost to Geneva 3-1 and tied its other match; you may have seen the Bike that was scored by Geneva.
https://www.facebook.com/NBCSportsSoccer/videos/1568866976526326/
Quote from: Flying Weasel on September 05, 2017, 10:12:28 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on September 05, 2017, 03:32:59 PMONU (0-1-1) lost to Geneva 3-1 and tied its other match; you may have seen the Bike that was scored by Geneva.
https://www.facebook.com/NBCSportsSoccer/videos/1568866976526326/
I'm not sure what was more impressive, the bike or the flip the player executed in celebration. Terrific stuff.
OAC News:
POW: Liam McIntosh, GK, JCU - Two 1-0 shutouts
Standings (non-conference):
t-1. Heidelburg (2-0)
t-1. Marietta (2-0)
t-1. John Carroll (2-0)
4. Otterbein (1-0)
5. Capital (1-1)
6. ONU (0-1-1)
t-7. Wilmington (1-2)
t-7. Mount Union (1-2)
t-9. Muskingum (0-2)
t-9. BW (0-2)
Games to watch:
9/6/17:
Otterbien at Kenyon
9/8/17:
Kalamazoo at ONU
Penn State-B at JCU
9/9/17:
Denison at Heidelberg
Otterbein at Hanover
9/10/17:
JCU at Medaille
Capital hosts #3 St Thomas on Friday
Haven't seen many teams play so far - Scrimmages: Denison & Baldwin Wallace, Capital & Oberlin; Games: the two Capital played in Maryland, Kenyon & Otterbein. Based on games seen, scores and preseason expectations:
Teams bringing back their core group of starters are doing what you'd expect (Geneva, JCU), teams replacing a lot struggling (ONU). Kenyon is a "not sure" yet - first half disjointed - second half came out strong and controlled the game. I think Jeon might be the key for them - when they played through him they gained control. Lots of overlapping runs down the wings and "old English" style crosses into the box in the first half.
Once again Capital fields a team of underclassmen - 26 fresh/sophomores, 4 seniors. MD trip was a travel nightmare - arrived 1.5 hours before the game after a 4 hour trip. Got an early goal and literally parked the bus. St. Mary's was a physical game - they scored on a DFK from a tight angle - perfectly placed - got a second late as Cap was exposed trying to get the equalizer. If they two MD teams I thought Salisbury was slightly better. Gettysburg was fun to watch - lots of talent.
Not sure what to make of Thomas More's home loss to Hanover. I thought Hanover would struggle to start the year as they replace many players - we'll find out "more" this weekend
Which conferences are the strongest in the Great Lakes??
Is the NCAC as good as the OAC this year??
Does Capital even have a chance against the #3-4 Ranked returning Semi Finalist "TOMMIES"???
Quote from: TableMax on September 07, 2017, 01:12:23 PM
Which conferences are the strongest in the Great Lakes??
Is the NCAC as good as the OAC this year??
Does Capital even have a chance against the #3-4 Ranked returning Semi Finalist "TOMMIES"???
OK, TableMax, you are clearly a Russian bot trying to lure me back into the fray, and of course almost any lure would do.
Why the need to know which conference is stronger?
I'm not an OAC expert, but my guess is that the NCAC is stronger than ever. It's possible there are no top 5 teams or maybe not even a top 10 team, but I doubt the overall strength has ever been stronger. Kenyon IMHO is not just a "we'll see" team. They will be very good again. Maybe not as good as the three prior editions, but that doesn't necessarily mean this year's edition won't be the squad that gets further. I don't think Tufts' squad last year was their best out of the last 3-4 years and yet we know what happened. They lost a bunch of talent but they still have quite a bit. They should get stronger as the year goes on. They snatched a good win against CMU (who should be another top Great Lakes team with most of the Tartan squad returning), and as another poster noted they probably deserved at least an away draw with JCU (who also will be a top Great Lakes team). That game reminded me of the CWRU affair last year where Kenyon let CWRU hang around and hang around until CWRU scored in OT. No real conclusions to reach based on the JCU match. OWU should be back to being OWU, although perhaps they are a year away from being a national title contender. Oberlin is going to be very good and with high levels of confidence and determination. Wabash should be good again and DePauw always contends. Will the OAC have that many strong teams? I don't know. JCU is good, I suspect Capital will challenge again, and you can never count out ONU.
I'm going to write a long piece on "homerism" and the impact on perception/perspective at some point, but for now I'll just share a few thoughts I had watching the Kenyon-JCU game which was painful to watch as, IMHO, Kenyon looked the more talented team but blew several can't miss chances and then that feeling set in of "we're gonna lose this one" the longer this match stays 0-0. A noted above, very similar to the CWRU loss last year. Very similar to the first loss of the season in 2014 at Wabash after starting out 12-0. In fairness, Kenyon has had its share of late goal and/or improbable last second type wins, versus Denison in 2014, Oberlin last year (x2), versus Tufts in 2015, etc, etc. The focus the last two years has been on Kenyon getting knocked out in the Elite 8 by two unimaginable defensive errors by All-American caliber centerbacks essentially gifting trips to the Final Four to the opposition, versus Calvin in 2015 and Tufts in the last minute of the 2nd OT in 2016, but those dreadful endings only happened because Kenyon had failed to score. Same thing in 2014 when the Lords were one of the top 2-3 teams in the country and had a nightmarish rematch with OWU on home field in the Sweet 16. Even in that one where Kenyon was getting seriously outplayed they had the best opening point-blank chance which was missed (twice) and then a minute later OWU drew a PK. Come to think of it a failed clearance led to Messiah's under two minutes winner in 2013 about 15 minutes after Kenyon had a point-blank chance to go ahead. You can't win if you don't score. That's the real mistake. Don't put yourself in a position to need last second heroics or fall prey to last second disaster.
Good post - and no need to mask your love of Kenyon soccer - we know of your passion!
First weekend of the EPL - 3.1 goals per game - caused one commentator to remark, "Playing defense is a dying art." Maybe - I've seen shabby/lazy marking, I've seen miscommunication by central defenders and lackluster attempts by midfielders to get back and defend.
I think the critical positions in today's game are two-way wingers - whether they be backs or middies - and a dominant DM (if you are fortunate to have two you are truly blessed). Defense has always been a team responsibility, but having a killer DM protects the middle from easy/fast penetration. I've read several accounts about Kante - he is the current gold standard.
Two-way wingers protect the flanks, deny crosses and prevent opposing wingers from turning the corner st the by-line.
It will be interesting to see how many teams use the 3-5-2 (many times playing as a 5-3-2). And playing it means be effective with it - see Arsenal for a disasterous failure using it.
Seattle won the MLS Cup last year without recording a shot on goal. Soccer is probably the only sport in which you can be held scoreless and win a championship. Goals conceded is the most important variable, and what I've seen - so far - are breakdowns in communication and/or marking assignments more than "golasos". One mistake in defending is all it takes to lose . . .
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 08, 2017, 08:03:38 AM
Good post - and no need to mask your love of Kenyon soccer - we know of your passion!
First weekend of the EPL - 3.1 goals per game - caused one commentator to remark, "Playing defense is a dying art." Maybe - I've seen shabby/lazy marking, I've seen miscommunication by central defenders and lackluster attempts by midfielders to get back and defend.
I think the critical positions in today's game are two-way wingers - whether they be backs or middies - and a dominant DM (if you are fortunate to have two you are truly blessed). Defense has always been a team responsibility, but having a killer DM protects the middle from easy/fast penetration. I've read several accounts about Kante - he is the current gold standard.
Two-way wingers protect the flanks, deny crosses and prevent opposing wingers from turning the corner st the by-line.
It will be interesting to see how many teams use the 3-5-2 (many times playing as a 5-3-2). And playing it means be effective with it - see Arsenal for a disasterous failure using it.
Seattle won the MLS Cup last year without recording a shot on goal. Soccer is probably the only sport in which you can be held scoreless and win a championship. Goals conceded is the most important variable, and what I've seen - so far - are breakdowns in communication and/or marking assignments more than "golasos". One mistake in defending is all it takes to lose . . .
Domino, lol, didn't think I was masking. I proudly embrace my leanings, even though I am actually a bigger fan of the school than the soccer program.
In my initial draft I had a sentence about winning without scoring that I took out, because, while true in any individual incidence, it's not so true in terms of a pattern of results or a strategy that should be depended on. I did a poor job with my real point, which was that in the aftermath of games like the last two Elite 8 games, the sequence leading to the game winner becomes larger than life and I/we overly focus on that instead of the other 89+ or 109+ minutes. And the common denominator across Kenyon's last 3 exits from the tournament was
a failure to score.
We as sports fans, and almost always following a loss (because when you win who cares how many breaks went your way or how against the run of play a result was), become preoccupied with the IF ONLYs....and that of course is one of the great fallacies in homerism or even just regular postgame analysis. Even if the IF ONLY had been true, that doesn't mean all other variables would have stayed in place. At the risk of blatant tautology, dynamics are by their nature dynamic. We don't actually know what would happen.
Here's a good oversimplified example of how homerism often works. Your team has been badly outplayed and is losing 4-0 with two minutes to go. You pull out your last card which is the Buffalo Wings bartender guy, and 90 seconds later the game is 4-4. You're ecstatic and have no qualms about feeling the new circumstance is well-deserved, and not only well-deserved but maybe even historically phenomenal. Then your team loses in OT. You feel robbed. You focus on thinking something was a bad call or an inexcusable error or gross luck on the other side. You remember the game as a really painful one that "got away," instead of understanding that your team had no business equalizing in the first place. And of course the feelings (and perceptions) one has if your team was the one in full control who blew a nice lead and lost involve another angle on homerism...one primed for a stance of righteous indignation.
Domino, best of luck to your Capital crew. I genuinely hope you guys run the table unless of course that involves a first round NCAA meeting with a certain squad. I don't always agree with you 100%, but you, along with the blooterman (and of course some others), always strive to play your analyses right down the middle.
Great friday for the OAC. Northern beat Kalamazoo 3-1, JCU beat Penn State-B 3-1, and Capital beat St. Thomas 2-0.
There are some good games today and tomorrow that I will be paying attention to. As of right now, JCU looks destined to make the tournament. If they lose the OAC Championship as they have in years past, I would expect a bid.
Case got outmatched yesterday at #2 Calvin. Calvin looks really, really good.
A lot of the ohio teams are matching up the next couple weeks. CMU, Case, JCU, Ohio Wesleyan, Kenyon. Should clear a lot of things up by next weekend.
Massey Ratings as of this morning - current rating, current and future SOS:
| Position | Team | Record | Δ | Rat | Team | SoS | Team | SSF |
| 1 | Kenyon
North Coast AC | 4-1
0.800 | -3 | 9
1.23 | Carnegie Mellon
University AA | 10
2.28 | Case Western
University AA | 2
1.99 |
| 2 | John Carroll
Ohio AC | 3-0
1.000 | 45 | 14
1.09 | DePauw
North Coast AC | 17
1.91 | Carnegie Mellon
University AA | 9
1.73 |
| 3 | Carnegie Mellon
University AA | 2-1
0.667 | 14 | 18
1.04 | John Carroll
Ohio AC | 25
1.77 | Ohio Wesleyan
North Coast AC | 21
1.39 |
| 4 | Oberlin
North Coast AC | 3-1
0.750 | 8 | 36
0.79 | Kenyon
North Coast AC | 29
1.65 | Denison
North Coast AC | 42
1.10 |
| 5 | Case Western
University AA | 2-1-1
0.625 | 6 | 43
0.73 | Denison
North Coast AC | 47
1.44 | Allegheny
North Coast AC | 48
1.04 |
| 6 | Ohio Northern
Ohio AC | 3-1-1
0.700 | -9 | 45
0.70 | Ohio Wesleyan
North Coast AC | 52
1.35 | DePauw
North Coast AC | 52
1.01 |
| 7 | Geneva
Presidents' AC | 3-0
1.000 | 87 | 55
0.62 | PSU-Behrend
Allegheny Mtn | 55
1.33 | Oberlin
North Coast AC | 54
0.99 |
| 8 | Ohio Wesleyan
North Coast AC | 2-2
0.500 | 1 | 57
0.62 | Case Western
University AA | 62
1.22 | Hiram
North Coast AC | 55
0.99 |
| 9 | Capital
Ohio AC | 3-1
0.750 | 48 | 61
0.61 | Hanover
Heartland CAC | 69
1.15 | Capital
Ohio AC | 58
0.93 |
| 10 | DePauw
North Coast AC | 1-1-1
0.500 | -5 | 62
0.61 | Otterbein
Ohio AC | 73
1.11 | Ohio Northern
Ohio AC | 87
0.70 |
| 11 | Grove City
Presidents' AC | 3-0-1
0.875 | 30 | 73
0.54 | Thomas More
Presidents' AC | 92
0.96 | Mt Union
Ohio AC | 91
0.69 |
| 12 | PSU-Behrend
Allegheny Mtn | 2-1
0.667 | 77 | 76
0.53 | Wilmington OH
Ohio AC | 107
0.80 | Otterbein
Ohio AC | 104
0.60 |
| 13 | Medaille
Allegheny Mtn | 4-0
1.000 | 130 | 83
0.50 | Capital
Ohio AC | 110
0.73 |
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 10, 2017, 07:15:01 PM
Massey Ratings as of this morning - current rating, current and future SOS:
| Position | Team | Record | Δ | Rat | Team | SoS | Team | SSF |
| 1 | Kenyon
North Coast AC | 4-1
0.800 | -3 | 9
1.23 | Carnegie Mellon
University AA | 10
2.28 | Case Western
University AA | 2
1.99 |
| 2 | John Carroll
Ohio AC | 3-0
1.000 | 45 | 14
1.09 | DePauw
North Coast AC | 17
1.91 | Carnegie Mellon
University AA | 9
1.73 |
| 3 | Carnegie Mellon
University AA | 2-1
0.667 | 14 | 18
1.04 | John Carroll
Ohio AC | 25
1.77 | Ohio Wesleyan
North Coast AC | 21
1.39 |
| 4 | Oberlin
North Coast AC | 3-1
0.750 | 8 | 36
0.79 | Kenyon
North Coast AC | 29
1.65 | Denison
North Coast AC | 42
1.10 |
| 5 | Case Western
University AA | 2-1-1
0.625 | 6 | 43
0.73 | Denison
North Coast AC | 47
1.44 | Allegheny
North Coast AC | 48
1.04 |
| 6 | Ohio Northern
Ohio AC | 3-1-1
0.700 | -9 | 45
0.70 | Ohio Wesleyan
North Coast AC | 52
1.35 | DePauw
North Coast AC | 52
1.01 |
| 7 | Geneva
Presidents' AC | 3-0
1.000 | 87 | 55
0.62 | PSU-Behrend
Allegheny Mtn | 55
1.33 | Oberlin
North Coast AC | 54
0.99 |
| 8 | Ohio Wesleyan
North Coast AC | 2-2
0.500 | 1 | 57
0.62 | Case Western
University AA | 62
1.22 | Hiram
North Coast AC | 55
0.99 |
| 9 | Capital
Ohio AC | 3-1
0.750 | 48 | 61
0.61 | Hanover
Heartland CAC | 69
1.15 | Capital
Ohio AC | 58
0.93 |
| 10 | DePauw
North Coast AC | 1-1-1
0.500 | -5 | 62
0.61 | Otterbein
Ohio AC | 73
1.11 | Ohio Northern
Ohio AC | 87
0.70 |
| 11 | Grove City
Presidents' AC | 3-0-1
0.875 | 30 | 73
0.54 | Thomas More
Presidents' AC | 92
0.96 | Mt Union
Ohio AC | 91
0.69 |
| 12 | PSU-Behrend
Allegheny Mtn | 2-1
0.667 | 77 | 76
0.53 | Wilmington OH
Ohio AC | 107
0.80 | Otterbein
Ohio AC | 104
0.60 |
| 13 | Medaille
Allegheny Mtn | 4-0
1.000 | 130 | 83
0.50 | Capital
Ohio AC | 110
0.73 |
Thanks Domino!
In my opinion. Case and JCU look the best. I think Ohio Northern is a little high, especially after that Geneva game. I'm excited for Kenyon's next few games. They play a lot of OAC opponents, and I expect them to have a good showing.
PSU-B should go up in rankings the next few weeks. Like you mentioned in another thread, Medaille didn't look great (I think PSU-B was better). Heidelberg and Marietta may jump into the rankings. Heidelberg is a sleeper team of sorts, have a strong freshman class.
Massey Ratings look like CNN and Fake News... JCU should be Number 1 team....
A couple of you are mentioning Case and I can't tell if you are confusing Case and JCU. On what basis would you all be so high on Case so far?
JCU obviously is doing well. Kenyon has rebounded from that "could have gone either way" away loss, especially with a nice away win over Centre which has a history of faring well against Kenyon, OWU, DePauw, etc.
In terms of overlooking, don't overlook CMU, which had two nice wins on the West Coast. The CMU coach never stops screaming at the refs but the Tartans are a very good, tough team.
Also, Oberlin had a very respectable showing against Calvin, as the Yeomen were only 4-5 minutes away from a major upset win. Unfortunately, they conceded twice within a minute and lost 3-2. The Calvin coach (who along with Shapiro at Tufts I consider perhaps the top young coach in D3) gave his now almost formulaic-sounding post-game comments about how much respect he has for the Oberlin coaching staff and the program or whatever.
I agree, Paul. I think everyone is high on Case's SOS, but keep looking past JCU's hot start. They play on Wednesday, should be a good gauge on the GL region.
Agreed Paul, sorry if I came off confusing. Anyways, I am excited for the JCU games this week. Case and Ohio Wesleyan (who JCU haven't played in about 6 years).
I haven't had the chance to watch Oberlin, I will try to catch one of their games this week. I know they graduated some really talented guys from last season.
These next two weeks kick off the Battle for Ohio contests between NCAC and OAC teams. OAC with a respectable start YTD - but there are more top tier match-ups coming up that will provide more insight as to whether the top teams in the OAC have gained ground on the historically stronger NCAC. Current and future SOS - as of what I posted yesterday - still reflects history, to a degree. Head-to-head will be far more telling.
Tue. 12 Allegheny Baldwin Wallace 7:00 PM
Wed. 13 Kenyon Marietta 4:30 PM
Denison Capital 7:00 PM
Ohio Wesleyan Ohio Northern 7:00 PM
Otterbein Hiram 7:30 PM
Thu. 14 Baldwin Wallace Wooster 5:00 PM
Fri. 15 Wittenberg Wilmington 7:30 PM
Sat. 16 Ohio Northern Oberlin 7:00 PM
Ohio Wesleyan John Carroll 7:00 PM
Mount Union Denison 7:00 PM
Wed. 20 Denison Otterbein 7:00 PM
Baldwin Wallace Oberlin 7:00 PM
Wooster Capital 7:00 PM
Hiram John Carroll 7:00 PM
Thu. 21 Heidelberg Kenyon 5:15 PM
The mighty "Tommies" came into Franklin County and left with a 0-2 defeat but rebounded nicely in Delaware County. Didn't even have to save a shot on goal except from own team.. Interesting how Massey has OWU so high in the "RANKINGS"....
I hope Capital can survive week against the NCAC and a highly ranked Washington and Lee side....
OAC News:
POW: Joseph Schulte, Ohio Northern, Junior, Midfielder. 3 goals in Northern's 3 victories.
Standings (non-conference):
t-1. John Carroll (4-0)
t-1. Marietta (4-0)
3. Heidelburg (3-0)
4. Capital (3-1)
5. ONU (3-1-1)
6. Otterbein (2-1)
7. Mount Union (2-2)
8. Wilmington (1-3-1)
9. BW (1-3)
10. Muskingum (0-4-1)
Games to watch:
9/12:
Allegany at BW
9/13:
Kenyon at Marietta
Mount at Geneva
OWU at ONU
JCU at Case
9/16:
Marietta at Case
Capital at W&L
ONU at Oberlin
OWU at JCU
Mount at Denison
Grove City at Otterbein
A lot should clear up this weekend. I would look at Capital, Marietta, and Northern. OAC has typically been top heavy (JCU and ONU in the past 5 years). It will be interesting to see if Capital and Marietta can cause some damage, and if ONU's rough start was just a fluke.
Not even a single nod to Marietta??? 4-0 - all clean sheets - 3 of 4 on the road - one at Wooster who RV??? Not a killer schedule but that's still an impressive start. They can have a say in next week's rankings - hosting Kenyon tomorrow and visiting Case on Saturday.
United Soccer Coaches NCAA Division III Men - Great Lakes - Poll 1 - September 12, 2017
Rank School Prev. W-L-T
1 John Carroll University
DH Penn State-Behrend 3-1; DA Medaille College 3-0; NR 4-0-0
2 Kenyon College
DH Otterbein University 4-1; DH Spalding University 1-0; DA Centre College 2-0; NR 4-1-0
3 Carnegie Mellon University
DA University of Redlands 1-0; DA Pomona-Pitzer Colleges 1-0; NR 3-1-0
4 Geneva College
DA La Roche College 6-2; NR 3-0-0
5 Transylvania University
DH Birmingham-Southern College 1-0; DA Berry College 2-0; NR 3-0-0
6 Oberlin College
DH Brooklyn College 6-1; LH Calvin College 0-3; NR 3-1-0
7 Capital University
DH University of St. Thomas 2-0; DH Millikin University 3-1; NR 3-1-0
8 Ohio Northern University
DH Wittenberg University 2-1; DH Kalamazoo College 3-1; DH Thomas More College 3-0; NR 3-1-1
9 Grove City College
DH College of Wooster 1-0; DH Allegheny College 2-1; NR 3-0-1
10 Penn State-Behrend
LA John Carroll University 1-3; DH Hiram College 4-0; NR 2-1-0
Also receiving votes: Hanover College (3), Medaille College (3), Heidelberg University (2), College of Wooster (1), DePauw University (1), Otterbein (1)
Nice to see the GL thread up and running. My thoughts, having seen only a few teams play:
(1) John Carroll has been the best team so far. If they knock off OWU and Case they should be a Pool C lock barring a total collapse, and they look like the clear #1 in the OAC.
(2) Kenyon still looks like the best team in the NCAC. The win over Carnegie could come in handy. I don't think they'll be as dominant as the last few years. But not sure the rest of the NCAC has closed the gap.
(3) Impressed with Capital against St. Thomas. The St. Mary's loss is a head scratcher, and they rode their luck against St. Thomas, but you take it. The reaction at full-time was a little too celebratory, which made the slow start against a terrible Millikin team unsurprising. But nice job to turn it around at half. I don't see them topping JCU in the regular season. But wins over W&L and/or OWU plus a stronger SOS could help with a Pool C.
(4) Disappointed with OWU against St. Thomas. OWU played Calvin dead even, so was expecting a better showing. Gifted an own goal but couldn't create much else. St. Thomas was good - better than Calvin in my opinion. Doesn't get easier, with trips to ONU and John Carroll this week and Case (home) and Oberlin (away) the next. OWU is even younger this year - started 0 seniors, 2 juniors, 7 sophs, and 2 frosh against Calvin. Bright side to that is OWU has a chance to grow a ton from now to the end of the season. But they need to put some wins together now or else they'll have to win the NCAC tournament.
(5) NCAC still looks a little stronger, but it's an open question, more than at any point in the last decade. OAC might have the best team in JCU. Capital continues to get better. Should balance a dropoff from ONU. Kenyon and DePauw look weaker than last year, and OWU isn't there yet. Wabash and Oberlin probably make the NCAC deeper. Denison has been disappointing. We'll see what happens in the next two weeks.
(6) Marietta hasn't earned it yet. This was a topic of discussion last year, but to get votes/respect you have to either (a) beat teams people respect, (b) rattle off a bunch of wins (8, 9, 10), or (c) have a reputation from prior years. Marietta was average (at best) last year, and they haven't beaten anyone of note yet. If they knock off Case or Kenyon, people will notice.
(7) Wooster receiving a vote is absurd. They've won an average of 4 games for the last 5 years and have not even sniffed the conference tournament once. They have zero good (or even decent) wins this year. Nothing more to say on it.
Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend the JCU vs. Case game tonight. In the past, it has always seemed like the home team wins that match-up, which is odd because the schools are only a short 20 minutes apart. I expect this to be JCU's 4th toughest game left on the schedule (Behind at CMU, vs Ohio Northern in conference, and the OAC tournament final) ahead of Saturday's game against OWU.
I expect this game to me very tough for JCU, the physical play of their cross-town rival will test their freshman, and JCU's back line is not necessarily sound.
Case has a great stream that will be available here at game-time:
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/msoc/live
Quote from: bestfancle on September 13, 2017, 09:16:06 AM
Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend the JCU vs. Case game tonight. In the past, it has always seemed like the home team wins that match-up, which is odd because the schools are only a short 20 minutes apart. I expect this to be JCU's 4th toughest game left on the schedule (Behind at CMU, vs Ohio Northern in conference, and the OAC tournament final) ahead of Saturday's game against OWU.
I expect this game to me very tough for JCU, the physical play of their cross-town rival will test their freshman, and JCU's back line is not necessarily sound.
Case has a great stream that will be available here at game-time:
http://athletics.case.edu/sports/msoc/live
Case has taken three of the last four against JCU, will be interesting to see the matchup tonight.
Finals: Marietta vs Kenyon 0-0. Oberlin vs Grove City 1-1.
Miserable outing for Kenyon. Yes, conditions were poor but zero excuse for not scoring. Chance after chance after chance around the six or closer. And another week will go by with some thinking Marietta is decent but they aren't. They kicked the ball out at every chance, threw the ball as high in the air as they could, and kicked the ball away every time they gave away a re-start. Kudos to the Marietta GK who made some miraculous saves in very poor conditions for a GK. The even worse news from this vantage point is that Kenyon indeed is just a notch over mediocre right now. The defense at full strength is still probably top-tier but the troubles scoring is going to force the defense out of shape with pressure on Myers and Wynn to keep pulling out wins for them. The senior class needs to step up and the Lords need to get in a habit of scoring early instead of leaving games in the balance 0-0 or 1-1 late.
Not a great result for Oberlin either, but Grove City is pretty good and letdown after Calvin probably to be expected.
Is anyone watching this CWRU vs JCU game? Might be some bias due to my nephew playing for CWRU but that PK call was terrible! JCU looks solid, but not top 10 worthy.
Quote from: UAA Insider on September 13, 2017, 08:19:47 PM
Is anyone watching this CWRU vs JCU game? Might be some bias due to my nephew playing for CWRU but that PK call was terrible! JCU looks solid, but not top 10 worthy.
That was a PK. Not a horrible foul, but I've always hated if refs make different calls based on location of the foul. That happens outside the box, it's a free kick, and no one complains. JCU doesn't look as good as they have in recent games, Case is always a tough opponent.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 13, 2017, 08:09:00 PM
Miserable outing for Kenyon. Yes, conditions were poor but zero excuse for not scoring. Chance after chance after chance around the six or closer. And another week will go by with some thinking Marietta is decent but they aren't. They kicked the ball out at every chance, threw the ball as high in the air as they could, and kicked the ball away every time they gave away a re-start. Kudos to the Marietta GK who made some miraculous saves in very poor conditions for a GK. The even worse news from this vantage point is that Kenyon indeed is just a notch over mediocre right now. The defense at full strength is still probably top-tier but the troubles scoring is going to force the defense out of shape with pressure on Myers and Wynn to keep pulling out wins for them. The senior class needs to step up and the Lords need to get in a habit of scoring early instead of leaving games in the balance 0-0 or 1-1 late.
Not a great result for Oberlin either, but Grove City is pretty good and letdown after Calvin probably to be expected.
I think Ryan addressed the potential that the variance between the NCAC and other GL teams might be lessening. Capital beat Oberlin 4-0 in preseason - not making too much of a scrimmage but it was a dominate result. The OAC is fairing well against the mighty NCAC - a brand - that expects perennial exaltation in spite of reality. The games are played on grass and plastic - not in our expectations. Let's see what the next round brings . . .
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 13, 2017, 10:35:00 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 13, 2017, 08:09:00 PM
Miserable outing for Kenyon. Yes, conditions were poor but zero excuse for not scoring. Chance after chance after chance around the six or closer. And another week will go by with some thinking Marietta is decent but they aren't. They kicked the ball out at every chance, threw the ball as high in the air as they could, and kicked the ball away every time they gave away a re-start. Kudos to the Marietta GK who made some miraculous saves in very poor conditions for a GK. The even worse news from this vantage point is that Kenyon indeed is just a notch over mediocre right now. The defense at full strength is still probably top-tier but the troubles scoring is going to force the defense out of shape with pressure on Myers and Wynn to keep pulling out wins for them. The senior class needs to step up and the Lords need to get in a habit of scoring early instead of leaving games in the balance 0-0 or 1-1 late.
Not a great result for Oberlin either, but Grove City is pretty good and letdown after Calvin probably to be expected.
I think Ryan addressed the potential that the variance between the NCAC and other GL teams might be lessening. Capital beat Oberlin 4-0 in preseason - not making too much of a scrimmage but it was a dominate result. The OAC is fairing well against the mighty NCAC - a brand - that expects perennial exaltation in spite of reality. The games are played on grass and plastic - not in our expectations. Let's see what the next round brings . . .
Perennial exaltation? Really? In spite of reality? What reality exactly? First, hardly anyone outside of a few coaches and RH see the NCAC as a top 5 conference. Most surveys don't even put NCAC in the top 8. What result are you referring to? Kenyon completely dominated Marietta. Look at the stats. I could not care less if the OAC ends up being stronger. But I doubt that will happen. There's JCU and Capital, and then who?
Past results. Current SOS. Let's see how things play out. Stats are stats - another point Ryan made. Seeing the games - seeing how teams play - that's another story. Wooster vs Grove City - watched it. Grove City got a fortunate PK to win against a pesky Wooster team - who - looking at "stats" - outplayed GC. Stats be damned - it was a game mired in midfield play - scrappy - could have gone either way.
Reality? The NCAC is a two team race - OWU and Kenyon - and 3-4 also rans - most of whom are overrated. OAC is improving and it will be a more interesting conference to watch this year for the 6 teams that make the conference than in past years.
The bottom dwellers in the NCAC are deeper than I've seen in years - no clear-cut top 4 - no guaranteed 3 NCAA bids.
Not sure this is a debate worth too much time this early, but I'll bite. The NCAC has been better than the OAC for awhile. Period. Its best teams have been better than the OAC's best and its middle teams have been better than the OAC's middle teams. Bottom dwellers are bottom dwellers - irrelevant for this kind of discussion (excluding the NESCAC).
Nationally, the NCAC stacks up well because, especially since DePauw joined, it's often been a three-bid league with at least one team good enough to go to the Final Four/win it all (OWU mostly from '06 to '15, Kenyon from '14 to now). Outside of the NESCAC, few conferences can say that. The OAC has mostly been a one-bid league, with Ohio Northern making a few deep runs.
My only point was that it looks possible that the OAC is better this year. I'm not sure that it is, but it's up for debate. The OAC looks to have the best team in John Carroll, which has not been the case in awhile. Capital is improving. But Ohio Northern looks weaker. In the NCAC, Kenyon and DePauw look weaker than last year, although Kenyon still looks like a surefire NCAA team. OWU is hard to gauge, but OWU and Oberlin look head-and-shoulders better than any OAC team outside that top 3. OWU just beat ONU, and Oberlin plays them soon. I'm not sure the NCAC is a three-bid (or even two-bid) league at this point. But I'm not sure the OAC is either. So, like I said, it's up for discussion.
No other GL conference comes close to those two. Not sure why Wooster is relevant as, again, they've been bottom of the NCAC forever. Which conference race is more "interesting" is in the eye of the beholder, I'd imagine. (The NESCAC is probably always the most interesting, but I don't have near as much of an actual interest in it as I do the NCAC). But thus far it seems like the gap between John Carroll and the rest of the OAC might be greater than the gap between Kenyon and the rest of the NCAC. We'll see.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on September 14, 2017, 08:12:57 AM
Not sure this is a debate worth too much time this early, but I'll bite. The NCAC has been better than the OAC for awhile. Period. Its best teams have been better than the OAC's best and its middle teams have been better than the OAC's middle teams. Bottom dwellers are bottom dwellers - irrelevant for this kind of discussion (excluding the NESCAC).
Nationally, the NCAC stacks up well because, especially since DePauw joined, it's often been a three-bid league with at least one team good enough to go to the Final Four/win it all (OWU mostly from '06 to '15, Kenyon from '14 to now). Outside of the NESCAC, few conferences can say that. The OAC has mostly been a one-bid league, with Ohio Northern making a few deep runs.
My only point was that it looks possible that the OAC is better this year. I'm not sure that it is, but it's up for debate. The OAC looks to have the best team in John Carroll, which has not been the case in awhile. Capital is improving. But Ohio Northern looks weaker. In the NCAC, Kenyon and DePauw look weaker than last year, although Kenyon still looks like a surefire NCAA team. OWU is hard to gauge, but OWU and Oberlin look head-and-shoulders better than any OAC team outside that top 3. OWU just beat ONU, and Oberlin plays them soon. I'm not sure the NCAC is a three-bid (or even two-bid) league at this point. But I'm not sure the OAC is either. So, like I said, it's up for discussion.
No other GL conference comes close to those two. Not sure why Wooster is relevant as, again, they've been bottom of the NCAC forever. Which conference race is more "interesting" is in the eye of the beholder, I'd imagine. (The NESCAC is probably always the most interesting, but I don't have near as much of an actual interest in it as I do the NCAC). But thus far it seems like the gap between John Carroll and the rest of the OAC might be greater than the gap between Kenyon and the rest of the NCAC. We'll see.
I agree with this, even as an "OAC guy". The NCAC has been much better than the OAC. Typically, the OAC has had ONU make it regardless of auto-bid or selection. Last year, we saw the OAC get two teams, basically due to ONU losing in the conference tournament.
Based on what we've seen so far this year, OAC is *probably* a two-bid league. JCU should make it regardless of conference tournament, and Capital/Marietta could get a bid by either beating JCU in conference or maintaining strong records and only losing to top teams like JCU.
OAC's bad teams are really bad, always have been. Even to the point that the first round of the OAC tournament are typically blow-outs. Not sure if that changes this year. What I can say, is OAC's best team (JCU) looks the best since ONU did in 2013, and might be the best team in the Great Lakes (which is rare for an OAC team). Also based on the looks of it, the OAC's middle tier (2-5) look marginally better than they have in the past.
I would not claim the OAC is stronger than the NCAC, and it will be tough to ever surpass the NCAC based on the "average team". Part of this is rooted in academics and history of success. That being said, if there ever was a year for the OAC to get the same number/more bids than the NCAC, this is that year.
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 13, 2017, 11:45:34 PM
Past results. Current SOS. Let's see how things play out. Stats are stats - another point Ryan made. Seeing the games - seeing how teams play - that's another story. Wooster vs Grove City - watched it. Grove City got a fortunate PK to win against a pesky Wooster team - who - looking at "stats" - outplayed GC. Stats be damned - it was a game mired in midfield play - scrappy - could have gone either way.
Reality? The NCAC is a two team race - OWU and Kenyon - and 3-4 also rans - most of whom are overrated. OAC is improving and it will be a more interesting conference to watch this year for the 6 teams that make the conference than in past years.
The bottom dwellers in the NCAC are deeper than I've seen in years - no clear-cut top 4 - no guaranteed 3 NCAA bids.
I'm not sure what this debate is about either. Why wouldn't we hope both conferences improve over time? The NCAC used to be a one or at most two bid league. The years with three bids is all very, very recent, roughly paralleling DePauw joining and Kenyon's rise from '13 to now. Kenyon was generally an after-thought until '13 except for '10. It's an open question as to whether Kenyon has a nice run that is closing or whether they are in fact a perennial challenger to the historical dominance of OWU. I like what Coach New has done with the Oberlin program but it's very much an open question as to whether Oberlin is going to be a true threat for more than an occasional year here and there. No clue at all where you saw unwarranted or unfounded "exaltation."
Domino, I don't know why you keep appealing to RH, as though that is supposed to be determinative. Very smart guy and I always consider what he says but I also can think for myself. You also, if you are going to "appeal to authority" like that, should actually be accurate about what he said. You omitted his comments about Marietta for example, and his suggestion that the NCAC is still stronger on balance because of Oberlin and Wabash..
As far as the OAC, is your theory that this is an unusual year, or are you suggesting that there is a new trend? Based on what? Influx of better coaches? Improved recruiting? What exactly? Or do you think the gap has narrowed simply because the NCAC is not as strong at the top this year? It's still VERY early. JCU is in a good position at the moment but I'm not sold that they are the best team in the region, based on what we've seen so far. They looked fit and athletic but not particularly skilled or competent in possession. Didn't see much after Parente and the coach's son. In a first round NCAA game, I'd still favor CMU, Kenyon and OWU over JCU. Actually watching them I wasn't THAT impressed. And who knows about a Geneva? Your other comments are confusing. You said the bottom of the NCAC is stronger than ever. Why? Because Hiram beat Otterbein? Have you seen who Hiram has lost to?
Had to be a happy Battling Bishop team going south on 23 after winning at ONU..Good win.. Even though prolly not same ONU team as last year. Last year they CLOWNED Oberlin 4-0 (TableMax).. Game on Saturday vs the YEOS should be interesting..Are they really ranked 7th in Great Lakes? Hellava endowment...
Kenyon escaped Marietta with a tie LOL... Just kidding.. They can maybe beat Heidelberg..
JCU is still the best side in the GL Region...
And I heard about that Oberlin Cap beatdown.. But it was just a scrimmage soooo...
Capital game at Nationally Ranked Washington and Lee will be the ANTIFA game of the weekend...........
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 14, 2017, 09:46:31 AM
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 13, 2017, 11:45:34 PM
Past results. Current SOS. Let's see how things play out. Stats are stats - another point Ryan made. Seeing the games - seeing how teams play - that's another story. Wooster vs Grove City - watched it. Grove City got a fortunate PK to win against a pesky Wooster team - who - looking at "stats" - outplayed GC. Stats be damned - it was a game mired in midfield play - scrappy - could have gone either way.
Reality? The NCAC is a two team race - OWU and Kenyon - and 3-4 also rans - most of whom are overrated. OAC is improving and it will be a more interesting conference to watch this year for the 6 teams that make the conference than in past years.
The bottom dwellers in the NCAC are deeper than I've seen in years - no clear-cut top 4 - no guaranteed 3 NCAA bids.
I'm not sure what this debate is about either. Why wouldn't we hope both conferences improve over time? The NCAC used to be a one or at most two bid league. The years with three bids is all very, very recent, roughly paralleling DePauw joining and Kenyon's rise from '13 to now. Kenyon was generally an after-thought until '13 except for '10. It's an open question as to whether Kenyon has a nice run that is closing or whether they are in fact a perennial challenger to the historical dominance of OWU. I like what Coach New has done with the Oberlin program but it's very much an open question as to whether Oberlin is going to be a true threat for more than an occasional year here and there. No clue at all where you saw unwarranted or unfounded "exaltation."
Domino, I don't know why you keep appealing to RH, as though that is supposed to be determinative. Very smart guy and I always consider what he says but I also can think for myself. You also, if you are going to "appeal to authority" like that, should actually be accurate about what he said. You omitted his comments about Marietta for example, and his suggestion that the NCAC is still stronger on balance because of Oberlin and Wabash..
As far as the OAC, is your theory that this is an unusual year, or are you suggesting that there is a new trend? Based on what? Influx of better coaches? Improved recruiting? What exactly? Or do you think the gap has narrowed simply because the NCAC is not as strong at the top this year? It's still VERY early. JCU is in a good position at the moment but I'm not sold that they are the best team in the region, based on what we've seen so far. They looked fit and athletic but not particularly skilled or competent in possession. Didn't see much after Parente and the coach's son. In a first round NCAA game, I'd still favor CMU, Kenyon and OWU over JCU. Actually watching them I wasn't THAT impressed. And who knows about a Geneva? Your other comments are confusing. You said the bottom of the NCAC is stronger than ever. Why? Because Hiram beat Otterbein? Have you seen who Hiram has lost to?
I can't speak to everything you addressed Paul (even though your comment wasn't to me), but there's a couple opinions that I have.
1. Blake New at Oberlin is an incredible technical coach, I actually had the opportunity to play for him during two seasons of club soccer, and the emphasis he puts on technical play is outstanding (first touch and weighted passes, specifically). I thought they would drop off this year due to their graduating class, but that doesn't seem to be happening at the moment.
2. I think JCU is more impressive than people think. Based on last nights game (1-0 win vs. Case) they did NOT perform to the level they have set during their previous games. JCU graduated three players that saw the field last year. Two of those players would struggle to see the field this year.
3. The recruiting effort in the OAC has really turned up a notch. I think of Otterbein's new coach, he has been seen recruiting throughout the region. Also, arguably JCU's strongest freshman, Turintin*, was committed to D-1 Cleveland State. This is a new trend when JCU, and other schools, are competing with D-1 schools for top talent. Many high school kids coming from the area are set on Akron, and when they can't make it there, they typically end up at Cleveland State. Now JCU has become a viable alternative to CSU and they are competing for the same players.
I am very excited to go to the JCU vs. OWU game this weekend, and I think JCU will surprise a lot of people by putting multiple goals away. If anyone remembers, JCU vs. OWU last played in 2011, and the game ended 2-1 to OWU with a bench clearing brawl. If there is one non-conference game that JCU will step up for, it will be this game.
I will be surprised and ready to adjust my impressions if JCU handles OWU. I'm guessing OWU will be the team to score multiple goals, although JCU does have the advantage of being at home. Is Kenyon better than CMU because they got an OT winner? Is JCU better than Kenyon because, on home field, they snagged one AFTER Jeon missed a couple of wide open nets and a couple of others had close-range misses?
IT'S EARLY!
On Sept 7th I wrote this:
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 07, 2017, 09:18:16 AM
Haven't seen many teams play so far - Scrimmages: Denison & Baldwin Wallace, Capital & Oberlin; Games: the two Capital played in Maryland, Kenyon & Otterbein. Based on games seen, scores and preseason expectations:
Teams bringing back their core group of starters are doing what you'd expect (Geneva, JCU), teams replacing a lot struggling (ONU). Kenyon is a "not sure" yet - first half disjointed - second half came out strong and controlled the game. I think Jeon might be the key for them - when they played through him they gained control. Lots of overlapping runs down the wings and "old English" style crosses into the box in the first half.
Once again Capital fields a team of underclassmen - 26 fresh/sophomores, 4 seniors. MD trip was a travel nightmare - arrived 1.5 hours before the game after a 4 hour trip. Got an early goal and literally parked the bus. St. Mary's was a physical game - they scored on a DFK from a tight angle - perfectly placed - got a second late as Cap was exposed trying to get the equalizer. If they two MD teams I thought Salisbury was slightly better. Gettysburg was fun to watch - lots of talent.
Not sure what to make of Thomas More's home loss to Hanover. I thought Hanover would struggle to start the year as they replace many players - we'll find out "more" this weekend
Your response from Sept 7:
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 07, 2017, 08:04:07 PM
Quote from: TableMax on September 07, 2017, 01:12:23 PM
Which conferences are the strongest in the Great Lakes??
Is the NCAC as good as the OAC this year??
Does Capital even have a chance against the #3-4 Ranked returning Semi Finalist "TOMMIES"???
OK, TableMax, you are clearly a Russian bot trying to lure me back into the fray, and of course almost any lure would do.
Why the need to know which conference is stronger?
I'm not an OAC expert, but my guess is that the NCAC is stronger than ever. It's possible there are no top 5 teams or maybe not even a top 10 team, but I doubt the overall strength has ever been stronger. Kenyon IMHO is not just a "we'll see" team. They will be very good again. Maybe not as good as the three prior editions, but that doesn't necessarily mean this year's edition won't be the squad that gets further. I don't think Tufts' squad last year was their best out of the last 3-4 years and yet we know what happened. They lost a bunch of talent but they still have quite a bit. They should get stronger as the year goes on. They snatched a good win against CMU (who should be another top Great Lakes team with most of the Tartan squad returning), and as another poster noted they probably deserved at least an away draw with JCU (who also will be a top Great Lakes team). That game reminded me of the CWRU affair last year where Kenyon let CWRU hang around and hang around until CWRU scored in OT. No real conclusions to reach based on the JCU match. OWU should be back to being OWU, although perhaps they are a year away from being a national title contender. Oberlin is going to be very good and with high levels of confidence and determination. Wabash should be good again and DePauw always contends. Will the OAC have that many strong teams? I don't know. JCU is good, I suspect Capital will challenge again, and you can never count out ONU.
On Sept 12 Ryan wrote this:
"(5) NCAC still looks a little stronger, but it's an open question, more than at any point in the last decade. OAC might have the best team in JCU. Capital continues to get better. Should balance a dropoff from ONU. Kenyon and DePauw look weaker than last year, and OWU isn't there yet. Wabash and Oberlin probably make the NCAC deeper. Denison has been disappointing. We'll see what happens in the next two weeks."
Not looking to Ryan as an expert - doubt he or any one of us want that crown. But based on what's happening - YTD - what I've seen - I don't think the NCAC is as strong as you do. I think the OAC has some improved teams, like Marietta. And when I used the term "deeper" for NCAC bottom dwellers - I meant that there are more teams that are going to struggle in the NCAC than there were in the past. Wabash is playing an incredible soft non conference schedule and I'm not convinced they will land in the top 5 of the NCAC. God bless Wittenberg - but I watched that Thomas More game and they are hapless. Saw Denison in the pouring down rain last night - they did not use a couple players - especially their best (IMO) Khaira - he was on the sideline but didn't start - can't remember the last time that happened (Rudolph also didn't play). Started 4? freshmen - going to be a very long year for them. Saw the Baldwin Wallace-Allegheny game - Allegheny has upside - a good midfield - but they can't leak goals like they did this night; haven't seen Hiram but based on early results it is douubtful they will contend for a playoff spot. Saw Wooster - a maybe - they are scrappy, high work rate - may win a few more physical games than in the past. Haven't seen DePauw.
OWU has to tighten things up in the back, until they do Kenyon's defense makes them #1, OWU 2, Oberlin 3 - and after that????
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 14, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
I will be surprised and ready to adjust my impressions if JCU handles OWU. I'm guessing OWU will be the team to score multiple goals, although JCU does have the advantage of being at home. Is Kenyon better than CMU because they got an OT winner? Is JCU better than Kenyon because, on home field, they snagged one AFTER Jeon missed a couple of wide open nets and a couple of others had close-range misses?
IT'S EARLY!
JCU is a solid team - all the players know their roles, they don't make dumb mistakes on the ball (3 touch) and their chemistry is very tight for this early in the season. They were up 3-0 on Medaille before Medaille knew they were in a game. They are playing very similarly to W&L - not a lot of fancy players but a well connected side where all the players are on the same page.
I told my son OWU would win last night - ONU is going to need more time to develop chemistry with all those new starters, and not having McNeil in goal is showing. But OWU let a 2-0 slip away before getting a late game winner. Naive Assumption - what has been happening will continue to happen: JCU doesn't concede goals - they won't on Sat. OWU gives up late goals - they will on Sat.
JCU weakness - not keeping the foot on the pedal for 90 minutes. They gave Medaille a couple of real good scoring chances in the last 10 - total domination in the first half followed by weaker effort in the second.
We'll see. I was one of the loudest on here when that 17-4 JCU team was snubbed. I genuinely have no reason to root against the OAC. From the beginning, the question of which conference is better is one I did not understand. You'll notice that in the quote of mine you quoted I said the NCAC might not have a single top 10 or even top 15 team this year. Down at the top and possibly stronger than usual 3 thru 5.
Not sure how OWU plays on turf. However, even in the last 2-3 years when I would argue Kenyon had the better team, OWU still has tended to show a more dynamic and connected offense. I wish Kenyon played offense more like OWU. I've been very vocal about the scoring woes of the Lords. Based on the Kenyon and Case games I'd be very surprised if JCU beats OWU 2-0 or 3-1. A one goal JCU win wouldn't surprise me, but a signature 2-0 or 3-1 win for OWU wouldn't surprise either. Looks like we'll have a good online crowd for that one Saturday night!
FYI: This is a huge game for OWU and they usually play well in big games. You can look at their schedule and see that the OWU SoS is going to be very high, but they can't necessarily count on ONU being ranked when it matters, and they have the losses already to Calvin and STU. Martin knows they could really used a ranked win.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 14, 2017, 11:52:26 AM
We'll see. I was one of the loudest on here when that 17-4 JCU team was snubbed. I genuinely have no reason to root against the OAC. From the beginning, the question of which conference is better is one I did not understand. You'll notice that in the quote of mine you quoted I said the NCAC might not have a single top 10 or even top 15 team this year. Down at the top and possibly stronger than usual 3 thru 5.
Not sure how OWU plays on turf. However, even in the last 2-3 years when I would argue Kenyon had the better team, OWU still has tended to show a more dynamic and connected offense. I wish Kenyon played offense more like OWU. I've been very vocal about the scoring woes of the Lords. Based on the Kenyon and Case games I'd be very surprised if JCU beats OWU 2-0 or 3-1. A one goal JCU win wouldn't surprise me, but a signature 2-0 or 3-1 win for OWU wouldn't surprise either. Looks like we'll have a good online crowd for that one Saturday night!
FYI: This is a huge game for OWU and they usually play well in big games. You can look at their schedule and see that the OWU SoS is going to be very high, but they can't necessarily count on ONU being ranked when it matters, and they have the losses already to Calvin and STU. Martin knows they could really used a ranked win.
This game is huge for the Battle of Ohio. Of all the Ohio-based schools NCAC and OAC schools - only Kenyon, Oberlin and Denison build their teams with non Ohioans. OWU would have been predominantly east coast years ago - now features 17 Ohioans. Otterbein's new coach - former DI and MLS player, DOC of a very strong central Ohio club - will gain recruits in the coming years. Capital, OWU, Muskingum coaches are part of a very strong central Ohio club (sent two teams to nationals - all but 2 or 3 playing college ball in Ohio: http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2017-National-Championships/Team/44810/OP9798GreenOH-SRII-R/ http://tournaments.usyouthsoccer.org/events/2017-National-Championships/Team/44809/OPGreenOH-SNLBK/)
When Archie Miller left my beloved UD Flyers for Indiana, the Dayton papers ran a story about conversations he had with his dad - about losing recruits. He told of losing kids to Michigan State, where the recruits were leaning towards UD but would tell Archie, "But it's Tom IZZO!" Archie put UD basketball back on the map - he was a helluva recruiter and will be so at Indiana - but he got tired of putting all that effort into a recruit, to be told no because the school lacked the appeal of the BIG programs.
The top central Ohio players look at the same list of in-state schools; OWU was automatic for central Ohio kids not wanting to play DI OSU or DII Ohio Dominican - still is to a degree. Non conference, in-state games are incredibly important to the image of a program. I wished the NCAC and OAC would hold a pre-season tournament/challenge - as the Big10 and ACC do in college basketball.
Domino, I think you just nailed it. I'm not really an Ohio guy. I'm a North Carolina (with a major nod to Kentucky and Cawood Ledford), Pittsburgh, Wash, DC and Massachusetts person (in that order).
I do appreciate the Dayton Flyers with a nod to Don Donoher. And one of my very best friends at Davidson was a QB at Moeller in Cincy (so a nod to Gerry Faust as well).
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 14, 2017, 01:00:47 PM
Domino, I think you just nailed it. I'm not really an Ohio guy. I'm a North Carolina (with a major nod to Kentucky and Cawood Ledford), Pittsburgh, Wash, DC and Massachusetts person (in that order).
I do appreciate the Dayton Flyers with a nod to Don Donoher. And one of my very best friends at Davidson was a QB at Moeller in Cincy (so a nod to Gerry Faust as well).
My one and only encounter with Donoher was when I got kicked off the soccer team for "insubordination" . . . let's just leave it at that! He was also the AD at that time.
Wittenberg and the NCAC will be to much tonight for Wilmington.
Starting off the day right. A good test for the OAC as a whole. Marrietta vs Case and Washington & Lee vs Capital.
Then at 7PM huge games with Northern vs Oberlin, and OWU at JCU. This day has been on the calendar for weeks.
Marietta has fallen, and W&L hangs a 4-spot on Capital with shots 25 to 7 and corners 9 to 1.
Cap looked like Chuck Wepner. WL Ali. "Everybody takes a beating". Adds character.
JCU has to be favored tonight. We'll see. OWU is pretty banged up, which makes the ONU win even more important. OWU dominated the first half but sat a bit too deep in the second and allowed ONU to get its wing-driven game going. OWU gave up two soft/preventable goals but did well to recover and get the winner. JCU is better than ONU so it'll take the same effort and then some to get a result. A shutout wouldn't hurt either - OWU hasn't had one yet, which pains me as a defender.
Tough one for Cap. Not a bad loss in one sense because W&L is very good. On the other hand, you don't want a 0-4 result on your resume.
Wanted to see what all the hype was for John Carroll and they look pretty good. Great goal for Lombardo? got john Carroll to go 1-0 up on OWU...Nice piece of skill to stay balanced to finish it. OWU ties it up 30 seconds later on a long throw that no one touched except the last defender and it scraped his foot and rolled in off the line...One of the oddest goal I have ever seen.
John Carroll playing a ton of direct balls over the top of OWU with some success. They have some speed up top
Alright, I'm done with Kenyon. Anemic, pathetic, etc, etc, etc. No ideas. Just long cross after long cross for at best header attempts from 12 or yards out. Total confusion about how to use Myers. No apparent sense of urgency with seemingly lackadaisical effort. Leadership, inspiration, and creativity start at the top.
John Carroll goes up 2-1 on a pure strike from Lombardo..I needed to finish my night seeing some goals..This kid lombardo is a out and out pure striker. Granted OWU is getting over matched but a beautiful switch by Marinaro? and a nice cross from the flank that Lombardo buried. I'm guessing Pasta night is a BIG deal with this side..
At the JCU game right now. Dispite outplaying OWU, a couple moments of terrible defending change the game from being up 3-1 to down 4-3. JCU is struggling.
Quote from: bestfancle on September 16, 2017, 08:37:30 PM
At the JCU game right now. Dispite outplaying OWU, a couple moments of terrible defending change the game from being up 3-1 to down 4-3. JCU is struggling.
Holy crap..I switched games at 3-1 figuring they were in control and I miss 3 goals. damn...My own stupidity ...
WOW 4-4...I am here to stay for OT...I think i can go back and see the goals
Well that was interesting. John Carroll beats OWU 5-4 on a goal with 2 minutes left in double overtime. I'll give my full views tomorrow, but disappointed on the final goal with the defending and the refereeing. One JCU player outjumped 3 OWU defenders on the header. Can't let that happen. As for the ref, an OWU player picked up the ball in the corner and a JCU player very, very clearly grabbed his arm and dragged him back, took the ball, and crossed for the winning header. Considering the ref called 29 fouls, hard to believe he swallowed his whistle there.
JCU was the better side in overtime, which made the differences. JCU dominated the first half, OWU edged the second half. Goes without saying, but a lot of poor defending on both sides in a game with 9 goals.
First of all, I apologize. JCU is MUCH better and MUCH more talented than I thought. Tough result for OWU after climbing back and taking the lead, and they will be very good...at least next year but perhaps at the end of this season when it matters. Good to see some real offense and good offensive play.
And ONU handled Oberlin...not a good result for the Yeomen...have to win some of these types of games if you want to crack into the category of being a real challenger.
I only caught the 1st half and OT but JCU is very legit. That kid Lombardo is a fantastic striker and they looked very dangerous going forward especially on their carpet. I missed thee 2nd half but sounds like they need to shore up defensively if they want to make a deep NCAA run. I would not want to play an NCAA road game at JCU as they looked very COMFORTABLE at home.
Kenyon has scored ONE goal in the last 220 minutes of play, against mighty Marietta and not-your-father's Thomas More. That one goal was from a long cross and an athletic, spectacular (some might say a bit lucky) header by Jeon. I will again repeat that the Lords were scoreless in their last three NCAA exits spanning a shade under 300 minutes of play. Against TMC, Kenyon had 80-85% of the possession...BUT...TMC had 75-80% of the best, point-blank chances...and to be honest, failing to grab a second goal, the Lords were fortunate not to lose.
I was wrong, wrong, wrong about the NCAC...just saw this morning that DePauw lost 4-0 to Centre. Oberlin spit the bit with Calvin on the ropes and then in a must-win home game with ONU. OWU, at an admittedly deceptive 3-3, is currently the best team in the NCAC.
Here's my current Great Lakes rankings...
1) JCU
2) CMU
3) Geneva
4) Transy
5) OWU
6) ONU
7) Capital
8) Kenyon
9) Oberlin
10) Pick 'em from Hanover, RHIT, Grove City
(Paul Newman - was posting this while you were making your comment)
What to make of yesterday's games? Head-scratching might leave you bald.
Identity. What defines a program, what defines the current team? What changes a program/team's identity? When is a event a one-off, an aberration - and when is an event a signal of an emerging trend? My take-away from this weekend is that there are many identities in flux - at least for this season. Whether they are signs of larger changes, whether they are mere aberrations three weeks into the season - we'll soon find out.
Players today have such an advantage with film of every game at their disposal. Unfortunately, "kids today" are spoiled brats who don't know how to work for goals, especially when things get tough. Film study provides the opportunity to look into a mirror - see what you did - learn from it. You can lead a player to the film room but you can't make them see . . .
Massey GL Rankings through yesterday, 1-12:
Team Record SoS SSF
John Carroll 6-0 16 29
Carnegie Mellon 4-1 24 9
Kenyon 4-1-2 20 37
Transylvania 5-0 223 265
Ohio Wesleyan 3-3 9 24
Ohio Northern 4-2-1 79 82
Case Western 3-2-1 39 4
Capital 4-2 70 45
Oberlin 3-2-1 119 72
Marietta 4-1-1 127 112
Geneva 4-1 187 239
Two programs that can't afford a misstep are Transy and Geneva - those SOS YTD and future won't leave room for a mistake. SOS will change as the season progresses - I'm still not convinced the NCAC conference games are worthy of a high strength value. For grins - side by side comparison of OAC and NCAC teams: top 4, middle three, bottom three (Massey rankings):
Rank Team Rank Team
85 John Carroll 196 Kenyon
375 Ohio Northern 352 Ohio Wesleyan
427 Capital 447 Oberlin
449 Marietta 518 DePauw
496 Heidelberg 701 Allegheny
536 Otterbein 711 Denison
796 Mt Union 742 Wabash
840 Baldwin-Wallace 852 Wooster
858 Wilmington OH 853 Hiram
1120 Muskingum 1051 Wittenberg
Recapping the JCU vs. OWU game yesterday; that was exciting to watch.
JCU did a really good job the first half. I was even surprised of the splitting runs. The Senior, Lombardo, had the best game I have ever seen him play. OWU's first goal came in basically from a throw in, and was a fluke.
In the second half, JCU basically fell apart. I think the team will struggle with speed coming out of other team's midfield players. Just like the Penn State-B and the Case game, JCU tends to let off the gas.
Blowing a 3-1 lead, to be down 4-3 is very tough. You have to give JCU credit for coming back and winning, most teams after blowing that head start wouldn't be able to stay on the field.
That might be a sure-fire lock for JCU to get an at-large bid. I think they will beat CMU, and should blow out Hiram. Even if they lost to CMU, and lost in the conference tournament. This JCU team with 2 or 3 blemishes would make the NCAA.
Quote from: bestfancle on September 17, 2017, 11:05:53 AM
Recapping the JCU vs. OWU game yesterday; that was exciting to watch.
JCU did a really good job the first half. I was even surprised of the splitting runs. The Senior, Lombardo, had the best game I have ever seen him play. OWU's first goal came in basically from a throw in, and was a fluke.
In the second half, JCU basically fell apart. I think the team will struggle with speed coming out of other team's midfield players. Just like the Penn State-B and the Case game, JCU tends to let off the gas.
Blowing a 3-1 lead, to be down 4-3 is very tough. You have to give JCU credit for coming back and winning, most teams after blowing that head start wouldn't be able to stay on the field.
That might be a sure-fire lock for JCU to get an at-large bid. I think they will beat CMU, and should blow out Hiram. Even if they lost to CMU, and lost in the conference tournament. This JCU team with 2 or 3 blemishes would make the NCAA.
CMU on the road will be tough, but otherwise I agree entirely. Wins over Kenyon and OWU will make JCU a virtual lock barring a complete collapse. And at this juncture, JCU and CMU would appear to be the only GL teams who might feel confident about a Pool C.
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 17, 2017, 10:34:51 AM
(Paul Newman - was posting this while you were making your comment)
Identity. What defines a program, what defines the current team? What changes a program/team's identity? When is a event a one-off, an aberration - and when is an event a signal of an emerging trend? My take-away from this weekend is that there are many identities in flux - at least for this season. Whether they are signs of larger changes, whether they are mere aberrations three weeks into the season - we'll soon find out.
Great questions, Domino, and our friend RH has chimed in on these in the past as well.
I would say....A very good, very stable coaching situation, and one where if there is any turnover, the keys to the car are handed to a well-groomed asst and/or alum who get the program and the program values/expectations. Martin is obviously the exemplar here. Russo at Williams was another. The guy at Trinity. The Messiah deal.
I think the selective admissions challenge is overrated. Otherwise, Williams and Amherst wouldn't be such historical powerhouses, and we wouldn't see schools like Haverford, Chicago, etc have their days.
Different situations also have different hurdles in terms of what is the next ceiling to break through. Kenyon is stuck at the Sweet 16/Elite 8. Oberlin is trying to break into consistent challenger threat category.
You have to get good players and players with the right attitude who fit with the culture (speaking of which, strong programs need a culture/identity). Good coaches have to understand the appeal of their situation/school. Is it the coach? Is it the school? Is it something else?
I've mentioned Shapiro and Souders a lot as two of the most successful relatively new/young coaches. They inspire a culture with their programs and teams, and in a way that is very positive and not angry, sullen, passive-aggressive. They are leaders but without making it about them. They get how to grow a support and alumni base. They get that it's about the student-athletes while holding their athletes to high standards...and I'd imagine they would do most anything for a kid whether it's the two-time All-American or the last player on the bench.
And then there's luck...a a good bounce here or there can make the difference in a Final Four or no Final Four...and the good luck (with its success) then feeds the very things a program is striving for in terms of confidence, vibe, culture, expectations, etc.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 17, 2017, 11:29:11 AM
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 17, 2017, 10:34:51 AM
(Paul Newman - was posting this while you were making your comment)
Identity. What defines a program, what defines the current team? What changes a program/team's identity? When is a event a one-off, an aberration - and when is an event a signal of an emerging trend? My take-away from this weekend is that there are many identities in flux - at least for this season. Whether they are signs of larger changes, whether they are mere aberrations three weeks into the season - we'll soon find out.
You have to get good players and players with the right attitude who fit with the culture (speaking of which, strong programs need a culture/identity). Good coaches have to understand the appeal of their situation/school. Is it the coach? Is it the school? Is it something else?
Bold and Italics mine, words provided by PN.
Culture. I've thought winning cultures are easy to join - the hard work - defining a program's identity - is done for prospective players before they hit campus. Coaches and returning players - their job is to make sure the next round of recruits upholds it. With super strong traditions- OWU - alumni will get involved should there be an aberration. When strong cultured programs hit a bump - they have that intangible to fall back upon - to get them back on track. That "could" be an advantage for NCAC schools - many have a culture that can be used to motivate them.
Good Players. Technical, athletic, fast and strong. You see these attributes when you recruit them, but will those qualities translate to a successful college player? All the top teams are all pretty good at bring in good players. And emerging programs vying to be included in the top tier must have three-four years of solid recruits that get results, that cause a potential recruit to pause and think: "Hmmmmmm."
What is the essential component of a successful translation of a good HS player? Attitude. The good player question is settled once you are recruited to a top program. A top program, historically speaking, can and will "help" a good player understand what winning attitude is - what is required to succeed in the program and get playing time. Emerging programs - here's the rub. The culture does not exist and it can crumble as quickly as it started to ascend. It's like you need a rocket engine to break the gravitational pull.
Great stuff, PaulNewman and Domino! Superior coaching and institutional support are entry level criteria for developing a nationally prominent program--necessary, but definitely not sufficient! I like PaulNewman's addition of Lady Luck, an elusive and unquantifiable element that can affect one's life course in so many ways. The following article seems relevant to some of the issues being discussed (sorry for the lack of GL content):
http://csri-jiia.org/old/documents/publications/research_articles/2015/JIIA_2015_8_6_Factors_in_Success_NCAA_DIII.pdf
Of course, "mission-driven" institutions (especially one located in PA ;) have fared better in soccer than in D3 sports across the board (i.e., Directors' Cup).
A quality that might be defined as "something else" - that I should have included as an essential personal trait - is decision making. Having incredibly quick feet can be negated by taking a third touch; a sloppy pass is negated by a quick decision to get the ball near the open player. Quickness of play, along with good decision making, is what great teams consistently do.
CMU last night one and two-touched passes from the back line to the midfield to the forwards. Simply and effective. Turned the game off at half - saw what I needed to see. The JCU - CMU game will be very interesting. After factoring in physicality - if one team isn't prepared for the battle that will be required to win this game - quickness of play will decide this match.
I posted earlier about GL teams that couldn't afford bumps based on SOS - Transy and Geneva. Geneva just got jolted. I think it's a tight three-way race with Geneva, Grove City and Thomas More. Their head-to-head match-ups will be a blast.
OAC News:
POW: Danny Ruple, Sophomore Forward, Baldwin Wallace, 4 goals and 3 assists in two games against Wooster and Bluffton University.
What is interesting about Ruple, is he may be the best pure goal scorer in the conference. His team around him isn't very good but he will be double marked throughout most of the OAC regular season. Local kid, could have gone to a ton of division 3 and division 2 schools, but chose to stay in his hometown and attend BW.
Standings (non-conference):
1. John Carroll (6-0)
2. Heidelberg (4-0)
3. Marietta (4-1-1)
t-4. Capital (4-2)
t-4. Otterbein (4-2)
6. ONU (4-2-1)
7. Wilmington (3-3-1)
t-8. BW (3-4)
t-8. Mount Union (3-4)
10. Muskingum (2-4-1)
Games to watch:
9/20:
Bethany at Marietta
Hiram at JCU
9/21:
Heidelberg at Kenyon
9/23:
Capital at Thomas More
Washington and Jefferson at Marietta
Rose-Hulman at ONU
9/24:
JCU at Carnegie Mellon
This week is obviously capstoned by that JCU game on Sunday. A very good week from the OAC, even the lesser teams got a couple of wins under their belts. Don't sleep on Heidelberg; I mentioned them earlier as having a good freshman class. They also have a young coach, and if you have a chance, check out that game vs. Kenyon.
JCU game at CMU is the toughest game on paper they have left. I would argue that the CMU game is only 2nd to the OAC Championship match for John Carroll. Hiram on Wednesday is always a game JCU seems to win, and then they have Fredonia next week before Conference play starts.
I also believe CMU can become a pretty good team. Being a fan of the UAA, I look at their schedule and 4 of their wins are against teams that are currently sitting below .500 win %. Yes, they are beating the teams in front of them, but It'll be interesting to see CMU develop as the tough UAA schedule gets started.
OAC currently 17 games over 500 pre conference... NCAC under 500...
One note: Geneva lost at Fredonia:
RankSchool
Prev.
W-L-T
1John Carroll University (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1277-john-carroll-university) DA Case Western Reserve University 1-0; DH Ohio Wesleyan University 5-4;
1
6-0-0
2Carnegie Mellon University (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1064-carnegie-mellon-university) DH Westminster College (Pa.) 4-0;
3
4-1-0
3Transylvania University (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1688-transylvania-university) DH Centre College 2-0;
5
4-0-0
4Kenyon College (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1296-kenyon-college) TA Marietta College 0-0; TH Thomas More College 1-1;
2
4-1-2
5Geneva College (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1210-geneva-college) DH University of Mount Union 1-0; DH SUNY Fredonia 2-1;
4
5-0-0
6Ohio Northern University (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1485-ohio-northern-university) LH Ohio Wesleyan University 2-3; DA Oberlin College 3-1;
8
4-2-1
7Capital University (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1059-capital-university) DH Denison University 2-0; LA Washington & Lee University 0-4;
7
4-2-0
8Oberlin College (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1479-oberlin-college) TA Grove City College 1-1; LH Ohio Northern University 1-3;
6
3-2-1
9Marietta College (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1363-marietta-college) TH Kenyon College 0-0; LA Case Western Reserve University 1-2;
NR
4-1-1
10Grove City College (http://ww2.nscaa.com/schools/m/1227-grove-city-college) TH Oberlin College 1-1; LA Otterbein University 0-3;
9
3-1-2Also receiving votes: Ohio Wesleyan University (10), Case Western Reserve University (9), Hanover College (3), Penn State-Behrend (2), Heidelberg University (1), Otterbein University (1)
No real complaints about the Top 4, although Transy at #3 seems a bit high given the weak schedule so far. Having said that, I would love to know who votes on these things, given the obvious problems:
- They misstated Geneva's record. Counting their loss would have dropped them, although the rest of the voting makes you wonder.
- Otterbein pastes Grove City 3-0, and Grove City drops one spot.
- Marietta, unranked last week, jumps into the rankings on the back of a week where they...won zero games and pulled out a draw in a game where they were outshot 25-5. They also lost to Case, who is unranked despite losses only to John Carroll and Calvin.
- Ohio Northern loses at home against Ohio Wesleyan and jumps two spots.
- OWU remains unranked, even with a win over ONU and close losses to teams ranked #2, #5, and #9 in the national rankings.
On the bright side, this poll doesn't matter in the grand scheme. With conference play starting soon, not sure Transy, Grove City, or Geneva will drop much here. But their SOS is going to be rough for the real rankings.
I'd probably go (1) John Carroll; (2) Kenyon; (3) Carnegie Mellon; (4) Capital; (5) OWU; (6) Geneva; (7) Transy; (8) ONU; (9) Case; (10) Oberlin
The GL is messing with our heads. Last year I preached parity. This year the word is: inconsistency. Pass or play. Only those who know who Betty White's husband was will get the reference.
Watched GC vs PSU-B tonight. Stats don't come close to telling the story. If time of possession were tracked GC might be 60-65 percent. But they needed a last minute goal to win. GC loses to Otterbein, ties ONU, needs a PK to beat Wooster. BW comes back from two goals down to beat Wooster 3-2 in OT. Otterbein loses at Hiram after winning at Hanover. Hanover beats Thomas More at TM, who loses at ONU but ties Kenyon at Kenyon.
Will the real Slim Shady please stand up . . .
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on September 19, 2017, 07:56:26 PM
No real complaints about the Top 4, although Transy at #3 seems a bit high given the weak schedule so far. Having said that, I would love to know who votes on these things, given the obvious problems:
- They misstated Geneva's record. Counting their loss would have dropped them, although the rest of the voting makes you wonder.
- Otterbein pastes Grove City 3-0, and Grove City drops one spot.
- Marietta, unranked last week, jumps into the rankings on the back of a week where they...won zero games and pulled out a draw in a game where they were outshot 25-5. They also lost to Case, who is unranked despite losses only to John Carroll and Calvin.
- Ohio Northern loses at home against Ohio Wesleyan and jumps two spots.
- OWU remains unranked, even with a win over ONU and close losses to teams ranked #2, #5, and #9 in the national rankings.
On the bright side, this poll doesn't matter in the grand scheme. With conference play starting soon, not sure Transy, Grove City, or Geneva will drop much here. But their SOS is going to be rough for the real rankings.
I'd probably go (1) John Carroll; (2) Kenyon; (3) Carnegie Mellon; (4) Capital; (5) OWU; (6) Geneva; (7) Transy; (8) ONU; (9) Case; (10) Oberlin
Yes, it seems like there is not a lot of attention being payed (paid?) by voters. OWU proved (in a lost, albeit) that they can hang with JCU and others. Not a doubt in my mind that they should be getting attention. Case is another team with "quality" losses, if you can call it that.
What I did notice is leaving off Heidelburg, who I believe should be put in the Top 10. I am more impressed by their play than Marietta, but one of those two should be in. I honestly do not believe ONU is a top 2 seed in the OAC this year. They will finish number 3 or 4 (behind JCU, Capital, and Heidelburg or Marietta) in conference, and if it's 3 I could see them upsetting the 2 seed in playoffs, because Ridenour is one of the best coaches at film study. In playoffs, ONU is a different animal, each player knows the proper footing and tendencies of their opponents.
And you're right! This poll means nothing, especially for individual teams, although when it comes down to bids at the end of the year it does help conferences (like my OAC) who are historically a 1-team conference (with the exception of last year).
And here's why Heidelberg shouldn't be in the top 10 - the lowest SoS of any ranked or RV team per the latest coach's poll.
Defining moments for GL teams for next week's rankings:
- Not going to say Transy's game vs TM tonight is a must win - they have the inside track to win the Heartland - but they have zero room for error in conference play, given their current and future SoS. Right now the Berry and Centre wins are good wins, but that can change. Heartland will be a one-bid conference.
- Rose-Hulman vs DePauw - the Slim Shady Game of the Day. RH's record is not that impressive considering the teams they have played: DePauw has had a much more challenging schedule to date and will be the strongest opponent RH has had this year.
- PrAC got more interesting with Geneva's recent stumble. Away games at PSU-B and Allegheny in the next 7 days. TM has statement games vs Transy and Capital this week, and they have a much stronger current and future SoS compared to Geneva. A win or draw by Grove City over Carnegie Mellon could do wonders for their SoS. I see this as a dead-heat right now with a small chance for second bid (TM or GC with the outside chance - Geneva has to win the conference to get a bid)
- OAC - this may be the highest future SoS that conference has had within the conference in years. Again, SoS changes as the year progresses, but if thing stay close to where they are now the OAC could get two bids. As noted in other posts, JCU has to have a complete melt-down for them to miss the post season. They may be able to withstand a loss in the conference championship game and still make it in, as ONU did last year
- NCAC - two horse race - OWU and Kenyon. Reverse of the OAC situation, the SoS within the NCAC may be the lowest it has been in years. DePauw and Oberlin can help with Oberlin beating Case, Depauw beating RH. Otherwise Denison has TM, Allegheny has Geneva, Wooster has Capital, Hiram has JCU. Results in these games can boost the conference SoS nicely
School
| Prev.
| W-L-T
| SoS
| SSF
|
John Carroll University
| 1
| 6-0-0
| 15
| 26
|
Carnegie Mellon University
| 3
| 4-1-0
| 29
| 7
|
Transylvania University
| 5
| 4-0-0
| 224
| 266
|
Kenyon College
| 2
| 4-1-2
| 14
| 33
|
Geneva College
| 4
| 5-0-0*
| 199
| 239
|
Ohio Northern University
| 8
| 4-2-1
| 70
| 80
|
Capital University
| 7
| 4-2-0
| 63
| 42
|
Oberlin College
| 6
| 3-2-1
| 110
| 72
|
Marietta College
| NR
| 4-1-1
| 128
| 100
|
Grove City College
| 9
| 3-1-2
| 123
| 159
|
Received Votes:
| SoS
| SSF
|
Ohio Wesleyan University (10)
| 8
| 25
|
Case Western Reserve University (9)
| 36
| 1
|
Hanover College (3)
| 130
| 240
|
Penn State-Behrend (2)
| 116
| 227
|
Heidelberg University (1)
| 269
| 140
|
Otterbein University (1)
| 122
| 91
|
September 20, 2017
Significant Digits, Vol. 1, Issue 1 (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/significant-digits/2017/significant-digits-09-20)
The Great Lakes Region by the Numbers
By D3soccer.com contributor
It's new; it's different. It may be a one-off, or it may become a re-occurring column. Check out Significant Digits: the Great Lakes Region by the Numbers, and let us know what you think.
JCU routs Hiram 4-0 at home, as expected. They only played starters for about 50% of the game. Should be rested and able to give it a good run this weekend at CMU.
Nice win by Oberlin over BW.
And OWU takes down Case 1-0. Stats show it was pretty even. Tough place to play and win no doubt. The Tommies must be pretty good.
Kenyon should put a beating on Heidelberg today.
Quote from: Christan Shirk on September 20, 2017, 07:21:19 PM
September 20, 2017
Significant Digits, Vol. 1, Issue 1 (http://www.d3soccer.com/columns/significant-digits/2017/significant-digits-09-20)
The Great Lakes Region by the Numbers
By D3soccer.com contributor
It's new; it's different. It may be a one-off, or it may become a re-occurring column. Check out Significant Digits: the Great Lakes Region by the Numbers, and let us know what you think.
I thought it was great. Clever, interesting, well done. Whether can be sustained is another matter, as is whether the idea can or could be expanded beyond Great Lakes, which would increase overall appeal. Whoever did it, whether an existing contributor or new one, should definitely be encouraged to be an ongoing contributor.
Sunset is 7:31 - going to start the second OT after this time.
The OAC looks deep. Berg takes down Kenyon. I predict OWU wins NCAC.
OWU is hard to evaluate right now, as they're young and banged up. Down half the starting lineup due to injury yesterday but did a good job to grind out a win (and a first shutout). If they can get healthy and the younger guys keep improving, they have a chance. They're 4-3, but three close losses to top 10 teams, two on the road, shows they can compete. But I'd still make Kenyon the slight favorite, assuming they get out of this funk. Lots of experience over there and, despite the performance today, they've been better in the back.
I was impressed with Heidelberg. Lots of team speed. Don't think they're on John Carroll's level but in that second tier with Capital and ONU. Kenyon looked a step off the pace for the portion I watched (after it was 2-1 Kenyon).
2nd tier takes down Kenyon at home. Kenyon 1-2-1 against OAC. OAC record not bad right now. Deserves credit. Yep.
Look at overall and head to head matchups. It's telling in 2017.
Watched most of the Kenyon-Berg game. I commented after the Otterbein game that I was unsure about Kenyon. Uncharacteristic mistakes in the back - Berg's first goal yet another example. Several through-balls allowed Berg to get behind the back 4, and one v one dribblers had more success than you expect from a Kenyon team.
But offense is nonexistent. Woo Jeon and Myers, Carmona occasionally. That's it. Purposeless crosses to no one, none of that dynamic combination play near the box. Stagnant - zero quickness on the ball. Maybe a funk, maybe an identity crisis.
Berg tried to give Kenyon two goals in the first half - goal line save by a defender and a ball skied onto the baseball field.
A huge win for Berg. I said they look good, and that game half-proves it. Kenyon honestly looks worse as the season goes on. I could easily see OWU winning the conference.
Looking towards the OAC, it has to have the highest in-conference SoS it has had in the last 10 years. JCU, Capital, Heidelberg look great. Marietta solid. And ONU gets much better in conference once the team gets better film study and familiar opponents. It will be an exciting in-conference season.
Tough to be a Kenyon loyalist right now. Let me say up front that I have zero inside info on what is going on (or if anything is going on). The current seniors were frosh back when I had a real personal stake, and while I know Myers, Wynn, Jeon, O'Neill, etc are fantastic young men, I don't have any ties to them. All the guys who were seniors when these guys were frosh are now well into their post-college paths and while still caring about Kenyon and the program I'd guess I follow the games (and certainly the dialogue on this site) far more than they do.
At any rate, something does not feel right. On the one hand, the team did lose a special class of seniors last year and certainly that shows. A drop-off, as well as an adjustment period, were inevitable. That said, Kenyon now has more blemishes in just the first couple of weeks of this 2017 campaign than I think any of the three previous editions AT THE END OF THE SEASON which included deep playoff runs. And it's not like those blemishes came in an early season weekend versus Messiah/Rowan or Chicago/Calvin. And it's not like even with the loss of last year's class that the talent cupboards are bare. Yes, perhaps the OAC is not just better than I thought, but much better, but still, Kenyon clearly has been the stronger team each of the last three games, and they have two draws and a big fat loss to show for that. Today they looked flat, gave up an early goal, and then, of course, relied on Myers to bring them back as he scored twice to put them ahead. Kenyon would have the ball with good possession in the final third for several minutes at a time, and repeatedly end up stretched such that the 12-15 seconds Heidelberg had the ball they had enormous space and players on through balls or over the top to go in one v one vs the GK. Heidelberg actually blew at least two or three of those chances. Kenyon had a breakaway with a striker one v one versus the Heidelberg GK with plenty of space and did not finish. 15 seconds later Heidelberg drew a PK and tied things up. Kenyon yet again almost scored several times in OT but did not, leaving the announcer, who is the asst SID, to say something like "Kenyon's best chance here is a header from Myers." Mind you, Myers was a 1st or 2nd team AA, as a centerback! He's always been good for the offense, but having him scoring on headers as your primary source of scoring is a problem, not to mention that moving him so far forward compromises the defense. The announcer, earlier in the game while Kenyon was doing little while down 1-0 in the first half commented that the vibe or energy just was not there as compared to recent years. You know it's not great when the announcer is referencing names like Justice, Carney and Ernst from the 2014 team.
So, yes, Kenyon is not as strong this year. Yes, some of the OAC teams may be a little better than thought. But Kenyon edged CMU and played JCU even and could have won that one. There appears to be more going on. The vibe isn't right, and I don't know what that is about. My GUESS is that getting so close the last three years wears on a program and a coaching staff (Kenyon only has two coaches compared to some other top programs have 4 or 5 coaches). Maybe a hangover effect...possibly something bigger than that. I'll have to check, but the other program that comes to mind as struggling after coming close but not fully breaking through is F&M, and if my short-memory is OK I think F&M also is struggling. This is when the coaching and leadership at the top matters. No one can question how far Brown has brought the program....a program that perennially was having losing seasons before his arrival in 2006, but he, too, in addition to the players, has to get over the gut-wrenching NCAA exits of the last three years. As I mentioned perhaps in the NESCAC thread, a bounce of the ball and a bit of good or bad fortune can cause a dynamic of its own, and what I'm expressing may reflect nothing more than that...but THAT is still something, with real effects, that will require a lot of effort to counteract. I don't want to be overly dramatic, but this isn't a program with 10-15 consecutive years of being a top-tier program, and this season and certainly next season could be huge in determining whether the Lords remain in the discussion as a top-tier program or gradually fade into more of a second tier deal. I'd also inject the caveat that one can probably count on less than one hand the number of programs that has sustained an unbroken record of success (perhaps allowing for one or two off years) over the last 10-15 years. So it's not a crime if a program can't do it, but certainly to do it requires a ton of effort, planning, and a special type of leadership.
As a loyalist, there are reasons Kenyon should remain strong...including the overall strength of the school and its appeal, a brand new field, one of the best athletic complexes in D3, and momentum where just one example was a very recent anonymous, single gift to the school of 75 million. The soccer program has to be an extension of the school and the school's overall strengths and not a program that tries to excel in spite of the school's mission. Again, there may be no "there there," but I do know Kenyon has work to do to match or exceed other top D3 soccer programs in terms of support, alumni base, and loyalty that goes both ways and builds over the years rather than diminishing over time. Continuous positive energy and a visceral sense of the team being an immediate family inside of an even larger loyal and dedicated family are some of fuel necessary to keep success going.
Huh? What? "SOME of the OAC teams may be better than thought"
Ok.
Quote from: TableMax on September 21, 2017, 10:29:39 PM
Huh? What? "SOME of the OAC teams may be better than thought"
Ok.
That's what you got out of that post? OK.
Kenyon isn't very good. You have to factor that in to your analysis. Just because someone is weaker doesn't mean another team is by definition stronger. It's relative. And I merely suggested that Kenyon isn't as strong as some predicted and some OAC teams are stronger than I thought. You don't think that's fair? Want me to crown a couple of the OAC teams national champions? And scorelines don't tell the full story. They certainly count in the W-L column but a result of game doesn't necessarily tell you that the winner is miles and miles better than we thought.
Really scratching my head with Kenyon this season. They really blew up on the scene in 2014 and since then have posted a 45-4-1 record in the previous three regular seasons, including a 12-0-0 record versus the OAC in that span.
Now here they are at 4-2-2 and 1-2-1 versus the OAC in 2017. Where did the wheels fall off the wagon?
Perhaps one of the worst descriptors for a very talented collection of players is "Golden Generation". Several national teams who have been dubbed by pundits with this title failed to achieve the championships "expected". Expectations translate to fore gone conclusions by fans and followers, and invariably disappointment when the teams "under perform." Belgium is in the hot seat now.
Unlike national sides, we're dealing with 18-22 year old boys. Emotion is more important to college athletes than (perhaps) professional. Huge turnover in the starting line up is more unsettling than fans think. Returning players may be very talented, but the on-field chemistry of the starting XI takes time to re-establish. ONU goes to the championship game in 2012 (25-3 record), 2013 record 18-4, 2014 record 12-8.
Kenyon had such a collection of players these past 3-4 years. I saw them play in person a dozen times - it's a shorter drive from my house to Kenyon than it is to Capital. Not ready to write them off - but they have work to do emotionally and tactically. Tactically - Woo has to be on the ball more, Myers CANNOT be the team's leading scorer, and they have to make quicker decisions on the ball. Too. Slow. Emotionally? If I could answer that I'd have a private practice and would be a millionaire . . .
Kenyon over Berg. Wittenberg
OWU will SMASH Oberlin
ONU will prevail at home.
JCU the best team in the GL will prove it again on Sunday. Yes they can win it all in 2017
Lions over the Falcons
Honestly, I don't understand why so many in this thread are confused about "what is wrong" with Kenyon.
ONU graduated 6 regular starters and their top 2 career goal-scorers. Graduated a 3 year starter at GK. Nobody is asking what is wrong with the Polar Bears. They are rebuilding. Also, Geneva, Grove City, and OWU are all pretty good. Yet, even in a rebuilding year, ONU has the talent and the pedigree to be in the conversation for an OAC title (No, I don't think they are beating JCU this year - but I wouldn't be stunned).
Kenyon graduated 5 regular starters and their top 2 career goal-scorers. Graduated a 4 year starter at GK. Why are we so confused as to what's wrong? They are rebuilding. Also, JCU, TMore, and, it appear HBerg are all pretty good (sorry Marietta, not convinced yet.. yes you drew with Kenyon but you didn't cross midfield). Even in a rebuilding year, Kenyon has the talent and the pedigree to be in the picture for an NCAC title.
Maybe all the whingeing is just because there are some disappointed Lords homers in the thread - but come on.
ONU is down because Kinkopf, Janusz, Horton and McNeil are really tough to replace. Are the younger guys talented - yep. Are they "as good".. probably not.
Kenyon is down because Amolo, Glassman, Lee and Clougher are really tough to replace. Are the younger guys talented - yep. Are they "as good".. probably not. It's not rocket science.
First, my post was about Kenyon, not the OAC. Secondly, Tablemax, if you look a little further up in that post from what you quoted I wrote "...not just better than I thought, but much better..."
I'm not confused. Several of us have said Kenyon lost a lot. They still have had some poor results and should not be sitting at 4-2-2. I can guarantee you that they are not happy with the outcomes of the last three games.
Domino, you bring up what I think is one of the most important points. EXPECTATIONS. Once they're there, then there is hardly any room for upside surprise. Same dynamic in the stock market. Once you've done really well the room to surprise on the upside shrinks considerably. The 2014, 2015 and 2016 teams (internally and externally) had a goal of at least Final Four and at least one national title in those three years. As fans we fall that trap all the time. No one is going to care that the Celtics got to the Eastern Conference Finals. And they definitely won't care if the Celtics are good this year but bow out earlier or don't progress to the NBA Finals. When there is little room to surprise that creates tremendous pressure. Even neutrals have considered bowing out in the Elite 8 to be disappointing...focusing more on hurdles not cleared rather than how good you have to be to get to Sweet 16s and Elite 8s. Amherst faced the same reaction until they finally broke through. Domino, I imagine that you are feeling some of the same with Capital this year. Last year Capital was a new hot team and I'd bet you felt really excited. The best feeling for Kenyon was in 2013 when they knew they had a good team but not many others did. They seemed to come out of nowhere and there was a ton of room for upside surprise. Then they beat Ohio Northern (the year after ONU was the national finalist) and Wheaton (Ill) (when Wheaton was excellent) back to back, followed by the strong showing in an electric atmosphere at Messiah. Because of that major upside surprise, however, the 2014 team believed they should win the national title or at least get to the Final Four with hopefully a rematch with the Falcons. They had a record-setting season that ended with bitter disappointment. Human nature is to remember the disappointment more than a great season.
With respect to emerging phenomenon - business teaches to ask probing questions, the most important being: is this phenomenon a trend or a fad? Trends are significant market forces that would cause a business to make fundamental changes to the organization. Misinterpreting a fad for a trend could be deadly. Urban Cowboy movie had every yay-hoo dressin' up all western like; within two years factories were closing as quickly as they were built - Tony Lama story here: http://www.nytimes.com/1982/11/27/us/makers-of-western-apparel-suffer-from-death-of-the-urban-cowboy-fad.html?mcubz=3
PN: the conversation we got going last week - it's all about emergence and decline; branding and culture; and what does it take for a team to continue a trend, deal with a (hopefully temporary) decline. Managing an emerging brand - Capital? - what's involved in that? How to you guard against becoming a fad and maintain a trend that leads to a long-standing culture? What is the identity of an merging brand - who maintains it, who owns it? Do the stakeholders realize their level of ownership? Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win - my son read this during the summer - trying to get the rest of the lads to understand their part.
F(x)= XXvar1 + XXvar2 ... each team's equation: what do we need to be successful.
There are so many variables involved in building a team - season by season the variables and challenges change. No two teams answer the equation the same way - and from season to season the equation changes for the same club.
We have a year unlike the previous 4 in the GL. Saturday's another day to see what's in our box of chocolates.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2017, 11:22:00 AM
.... I'm not confused. Several of us have said Kenyon lost a lot. They still have had some poor results and should not be sitting at 4-2-2. I can guarantee you that they are not happy with the outcomes of the last three games.
Domino, you bring up what I think is one of the most important points. EXPECTATIONS. ....
Okay - I agree. Performance since 2013 put certain EXPECTATIONS on the 2017 Kenyon side. But - my point is there is something wrong with the
expectations, not with the
team. Ask "why did we expect this group to be a top 10 team" - not "what the heck is wrong in that locker room".
Why shouldn't they be sitting at 4-2-2? What gives you that impression? Okay... outshooting Marietta 25-5 and bending the freaking crossbar several times probably tells us the result was an aberration. So, let's say they "should" be 5-2-1. Why are we measuring this group of young men by the standard from a different group of young men?
I didn't watch TMore - but the stats tell me that isn't an unfair result.. perhaps a bit unlucky, but not unfair. I did watch last night - and Heidelberg can straight up counterattack. It's myopic to just say that's a game Kenyon "should" win based on 4 years of (truly impressive) success.
Of course the team and staff are unhappy with the last 3 results. Of course it's folly within the program or within the fan base to just lower the expectations because of graduation. If Coach Brown was doing anything other than demanding better as they prepare for conference play... he'd be nuts. Similarly, any program used to winning will suffer through some identity crises in a year where they just aren't as good.
But searching for the magic dust to explain what ails them is silly. The magic dust is better players. All of the intangibles being referenced... culture, branding, chemistry, ownership and buy-in.... hell in this case even tactics - are they the difference maker in a contest between 2 elite teams? Yes. But Kenyon isn't elite this year. The good news is they still are
very good - and I think there is enough in Gambier to say they will be elite again in the future.
Quote from: DonkeyTouch on September 22, 2017, 03:18:50 PM
(Snip)
But searching for the magic dust to explain what ails them is silly. The magic dust is better players. All of the intangibles being referenced... culture, branding, chemistry, ownership and buy-in.... hell in this case even tactics - are they the difference maker in a contest between 2 elite teams? Yes. But Kenyon isn't elite this year. The good news is they still are very good - and I think there is enough in Gambier to say they will be elite again in the future.
I don't like the word Elite - Elite is defined by time, and time eventually provides an end to this status. This year I've seen more top GL teams beat themselves.
I've seen dozens of GL games this year and I can provide a scouting report on most of the top teams: I know what they do well, I know where they can be weak. I know how teams can win and lose every game. It's not parity this year - although I think there are a lot of teams that are very equal and capable - it's inconsistency. Of the inconsistent play I've seen, the most significant factor is poor decision-making. It is speed of play, it is three-touch, holding the ball too long. It is the back line getting caught out of position, not communicating. It is a non-assertive DM and midfield. It's defenders playing "Honduran" defense: doing dumb crap like trying to dribble out of their defensive third. It's overly aggressive GK's who should be shot every time they come racing out of the 6 for NO REASON other than they're bored.
After that - inability to finish is the second cause for losses. Skill lets every player down, but some of the open looks kids are missing are mind-numbing.
It's all about tactics and attitude. Every top team has good players. Winning is a matter of executing the game plan - tactics and adjustments; it's about attitude - the will to win. The coach, the seniors, the captains - they have to get a team ready to play.
So father worst performance is by the CMU camera crew . . .
Yes CMU camera work is below average.
I thought Grove City had the better of the play in the first half. But CMU leads 1-0 on a corner kick.
What a strike for CMU's second. Still - a quagmire of a game (giggity) - a grinder. GC just not doing enough by defending and hoping. A feisty performance by weathered by GC- but CMU will do what it needs to win. Sunday's game against JCU - I frickin' might have to drive over to see this one.
TMC tied Kenyon away. Lost 3-2 at Nationally ranked Transylvania. Can Capital win 2 years in a row at TMC??
Case over #3/#4 Lycoming 1-0!!!
GO SPARTANS!!!
Today's the big game for JCU. Win here and they have a chance at being undefeated.
My prediction 1-1 draw, going into a place like CMU will be tough. I think the refs will play a big factor in this game. Free kicks and corners my decide this one. JCU does come in with a lot of rest, which should be nice. At kickoff the temp is expected to be 88 degrees!!
And CMU strike first, with an excellent run and finish by #10, Cohen.
JCU hit the crossbar 10 minutes earlier.
so far, fairly even, with the goal as the divider.
CMU 1-0 JCU at the half
towards the end of the half, CMU had some good possession, and JCU legs looked a little tired, but still fairly even.
hot day, with a water break 30 minutes in.
JCU tie it up at the very last second of the game!
OT coming up..
up to that point, i would have said that CMU had done what they needed to do in order to close the game out.
should be an interesting overtime
88 degrees in Pittsburgh right now 8-)
What a game today.
Honestly, at times, JCU looked lost and out of it. That being said, there were other time where the team looked as if it could score at any minute. Both JCU and CMU had one shot that hit the bar. JCU also missed an open net with about 10 minutes left. This was pretty much as even as two teams could be, both keepers made some great saves as well. For a team like JCU to travel to CMU, in 90 degree heat, and get a tie is a good result for them.
CMU also looked great, particularly in the first half hour of the game. JCU couldn't really get anything started at the beginning.
Now moving on to that last play in regular time... I have never seen such a composed decision in a collegiate game before. I honestly believe that 99% of players are going to shoot the ball if it is at their feet, in the box, with 3 seconds left in the game. The one player for JCU had the composure to slide the ball over to the other side of the box to find Rozsits who put it away with 1 second left on the clock! Incredible!
JCU deserved to score, I believe they really outmatched CMU the last 10 minutes of regular time. I give credit to the coaches, they pulled out a lot of starters with 30 minutes left in the game to send them back in rested with 10 minutes left and apply pressure. JCU looked as if they would get a winner in OT until Lombardo got a (deserved) 2nd yellow. Although he got the first one from celebrating the tying goal (...dumb).
Both the teams looked great, and I expect them to compete nationally. As far as rankings go, I expect both teams to stay about the same; CMU might even rise a bit.
Has anyone seen Depauw play? Both Wooster and Manchester beat them this weekend.
Quote from: midwest on September 24, 2017, 08:21:55 PM
Has anyone seen Depauw play? Both Wooster and Manchester beat them this weekend.
I have not - but I've seen Manchester twice and Wooster twice. I'd tip Wooster as having a good chance to finish 4th in the NCAC - as I've said previously they are scrappy and they don't quit. They have a young coach who impresses me with his sideline demeanor, his mgmt of the team - and I think he got to them after that horrible collapse vs Baldwin Wallace. Manchester frustrated ONU for 70 minutes - not much in the way of attacking play and not exactly parking the bus. Did the same to Otterbein first half. Interested to see what happens at Heidelberg.
Going to run my Massey numbers later today but the NCAC is clearly down this year. I don't think Oberlin is a given for the post season - after OWU and Kenyon, eliminating Wittenberg - it's up for grabs.
Quote from: bestfancle on September 24, 2017, 08:19:08 PM
What a game today.
Honestly, at times, JCU looked lost and out of it. That being said, there were other time where the team looked as if it could score at any minute. Both JCU and CMU had one shot that hit the bar. JCU also missed an open net with about 10 minutes left. This was pretty much as even as two teams could be, both keepers made some great saves as well. For a team like JCU to travel to CMU, in 90 degree heat, and get a tie is a good result for them.
CMU also looked great, particularly in the first half hour of the game. JCU couldn't really get anything started at the beginning.
Now moving on to that last play in regular time... I have never seen such a composed decision in a collegiate game before. I honestly believe that 99% of players are going to shoot the ball if it is at their feet, in the box, with 3 seconds left in the game. The one player for JCU had the composure to slide the ball over to the other side of the box to find Rozsits who put it away with 1 second left on the clock! Incredible!
JCU deserved to score, I believe they really outmatched CMU the last 10 minutes of regular time. I give credit to the coaches, they pulled out a lot of starters with 30 minutes left in the game to send them back in rested with 10 minutes left and apply pressure. JCU looked as if they would get a winner in OT until Lombardo got a (deserved) 2nd yellow. Although he got the first one from celebrating the tying goal (...dumb).
Both the teams looked great, and I expect them to compete nationally. As far as rankings go, I expect both teams to stay about the same; CMU might even rise a bit.
Great match and write-up. Being a fan and providing objectivity is appreciated. Definitely worth staying indoors on a 90 degree day to watch this evenly played game. And I agree on the final shot
- the announcer said "1" and I still wasn't sure he'd get the shot off. But this was a fair result.
Surprised at the water breaks. College obviously allows for subs whereas pros don't. I thought the Cap-TM game would employed this as well - 95 at game time, also on turf. The officials did not.
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 25, 2017, 06:35:24 AM
Quote from: midwest on September 24, 2017, 08:21:55 PM
Has anyone seen Depauw play? Both Wooster and Manchester beat them this weekend.
I have not - but I've seen Manchester twice and Wooster twice. I'd tip Wooster as having a good chance to finish 4th in the NCAC - as I've said previously they are scrappy and they don't quit. They have a young coach who impresses me with his sideline demeanor, his mgmt of the team - and I think he got to them after that horrible collapse vs Baldwin Wallace. Manchester frustrated ONU for 70 minutes - not much in the way of attacking play and not exactly parking the bus. Did the same to Otterbein first half. Interested to see what happens at Heidelberg.
Going to run my Massey numbers later today but the NCAC is clearly down this year. I don't think Oberlin is a given for the post season - after OWU and Kenyon, eliminating Wittenberg - it's up for grabs.
Thanks -- Wooster coach is charismatic, energetic, a great coach for young men, so I'm not surprised he is getting results from his kids. My kid considered playing there, but chose elsewhere. We happen to know Manchester coach as well, more low key in style, but again, the kind of coach who inspires complete dedication in his players. Happy to see them both getting some good results (until my kid's team faces them, then all bets are off).
Thanks Domino.
Yes, the water breaks were bizarre, and I think they benefited JCU more. I'm not sure if it was bus fatigue or simple fitness. I feel that JCU was more "coached" yesterday than CMU, for better or for worse. More substitutions and strategic changes for JCU, while it seemed like the CMU coach was letting his players figure it out and just trying to keep them motivated.
Massey ratings through yesterday:
Team
|
Record |
SoS |
SSF | Week Ahead
|
John Carroll
|
7-0-1 |
6 |
25 | Fredonia, Wilmington
|
Carnegie Mellon
|
6-0-1 |
14 |
6 | NYU, PSU-Behrend
|
Ohio Wesleyan
|
'5-3-0 |
2 |
22 | Capital, Wooster
|
Kenyon
|
'5-2-2 |
27 |
29 | CWRU, Denison
|
Heidelberg
|
'6-0-0 |
207 |
117 | Manchester, @Muskingum
|
Transylvania
|
'7-0-0 |
236 |
260 | Rose-Hulman, @Mt. St. Joseph
|
Case Western
|
'4-3-1 |
12 |
1 | @Kenyon, Brandeis
|
ONU
|
'6-2-1 |
74 |
63 | Anderson, @Mt. Union
|
Capital
|
'5-3-0 |
62 |
36 | @OWU, Otterbein
|
Otterbein
|
'6-2-0 |
140 |
82 | @ Capital
|
Thomas More
|
'4-3-1 |
48 |
108 | @Denison, @Grove City
|
Grove City
|
'4-2-2 |
64 |
140 | @Baldwin Wallace, Thomas More
|
Many of the top teams play at home this week - Case looking at yet another brutal week - #1 SSF schedule in the country. Kind of impressed with the schedule strength - past and future - for GL teams. Now you have to win some of these tough matches.
- Transylvania has two games left that will challenge, and they get conference contender Rose-Hulman right away. SoS looks like it will continue to decline so - again - no slip ups for you. After RH they have 4 straight away games - Hanover the third, followed by Manchester. Manchester will put up a fight and depending on the Hanover game they may have to dig deep emotionally for that game.
- Prac - Thomas More may be the new front runner - this week. Got to take care of business away at Denison before opening conference play at GC. Geneva, CG and TM will surely make the post season - so they will get to play each other a second time. Geneva's two tilts against these two are away.
- NCAC - OWU's schedule and performance lead me to tabbing them the front runner. Kenyon can restate their case - well - by having a good performance against Case. Then the Boondocks Derby with Denision. As I said earlier I think Wooster has a real chance for the NCAC tournament - we'll learn more about them when they visit OWU on Saturday.
- AMCC - it's PSU-B's title to lose. I know Franciscan and Mt. Aloysius have gawdy records but they have't played anyone of note. PSU-B is the highest rated AMCC team in the GL at #14.
- OAC - JCU. Not sure what else needs to be said. Their biggest challenge from here on out will be between their ears. It is mentally difficult to maintain such a performance rate, and we saw in the Medaille game they can let their foot off the gas. ONU continues to figure out their starting XI and has a fairly easy week. I swear I'm not a hater but Heidelberg's schedule bothers me. I watched the Kenyon game - I saw how fortunate they were not to lose that game. I tip Otterbein as third best and have Heidelberg and Capital at 4-5. Otterbein has the week off before the C-Bus Derby at Cap next Sat - I expect we'll see several 'Bein players at OWU on Wed. Heidelberg has pesky Machester before starting conference play. And Capital - inconsistent and struggling mentally. They are on pace to set a 4 yr high mark in YC and RC, and the cards they are receiving aren't even due to hard fouls - it's dissent, delay restarts. With 75% of the team being freshman and sophs you expected some immaturity, but not this much.
Kenyon back to form again playing with fire and today barely escaping with a 1-0 win over Case after 24 to 8 shots advantage. That included giving up a PK late just like they did against Heidelberg. I think the Lords went a couple of seasons without giving up ANY PKs.
If we take out the scrimmage with Wittenberg, the last four results go like this....
25-5 in shots....0-0 T
26-12 in shots...1-1 T
21-15 in shots 3-2 L
24-8 in shots 1-0 W
If the team isn't going to score then might as well make the defense as impenetrable as possible. Myers is running his socks off up top when he could be strengthening the defense at a minimum from a holding mid role. And then, Carmona, who you don't necessarily want isolated as a defender because of his size and occasional loose plays, could play the attacking, creative mid role and help create some better chances for the forwards. Not to mention that without Myers next to him Lowry is forced to make even more stops on his own than usual. Maybe they will get it together and/or be saved by how weak the NCAC is appearing to be...does look like a two-way race at the moment. Maybe Oberlin will rebound but they have been disappointing. Think about this (and this is what I was trying to explain a week or two ago about the after-shock effects of falling short in big spots...Oberlin was 5 minutes away from knocking off Calvin, and since then has lost their most competitive games rather routinely.
OAC News:
POW - Juan Rivas, FWD, Otterbein - 3 goals and an assist in a 4-1 week. His 2nd hat trick of the year.
Standings (non-conference):
1. Heidelberg (6-0)
2. John Carroll (8-0-1)
3. Otterbein (6-2)
4. ONU (6-2-1)
5. Marietta (5-2-1)
6. Capital (5-3)
7. Wilmington (5-3-1)
8. BW (4-5)
9. Mount Union (3-4)
10. Muskingum (2-5-1)
JCU almost "Pulled a Kenyon" tonight. Couldn't find the net in the first half missing Lombardo. Ended up polishing off fredonia 2-0.
This week begins the OAC regular season.
My Playoff Predictions (top-6 make it in OAC, with seeds 1 and 2 getting byes):
1. JCU - (9-0) - Should not be troubled in the conference.
2. Heidelberg - (7-1-1) - I expect a tie vs. ONU and a loss to JCU
3. ONU - (6-2-1) - Uncertainty will cost them an extra loss against another team.
4. Capital - (5-3-1) - Losses to the 3 teams above them and maybe a tie.
5. Otterbein - (5-4)
6. BW - (4-4-1) - I know, odd pick, but I think Ruple will cause trouble in the OAC.
Outside looking in: Marietta (4-5), Wilmington (2-7), Mount (1-6-2), Muskingum (0-9)
Quote from: bestfancle on September 26, 2017, 09:07:11 PM
OAC News:
POW - Juan Rivas, FWD, Otterbein - 3 goals and an assist in a 4-1 week. His 2nd hat trick of the year.
Standings (non-conference):
1. Heidelberg (6-0)
2. John Carroll (8-0-1)
3. Otterbein (6-2)
4. ONU (6-2-1)
5. Marietta (5-2-1)
6. Capital (5-3)
7. Wilmington (5-3-1)
8. BW (4-5)
9. Mount Union (3-4)
10. Muskingum (2-5-1)
JCU almost "Pulled a Kenyon" tonight. Couldn't find the net in the first half missing Lombardo. Ended up polishing off fredonia 2-0.
This week begins the OAC regular season.
My Playoff Predictions (top-6 make it in OAC, with seeds 1 and 2 getting byes):
1. JCU - (9-0) - Should not be troubled in the conference.
2. Heidelberg - (7-1-1) - I expect a tie vs. ONU and a loss to JCU
3. ONU - (6-2-1) - Uncertainty will cost them an extra loss against another team.
4. Capital - (5-3-1) - Losses to the 3 teams above them and maybe a tie.
5. Otterbein - (5-4)
6. BW - (4-4-1) - I know, odd pick, but I think Ruple will cause trouble in the OAC.
Outside looking in: Marietta (4-5), Wilmington (2-7), Mount (1-6-2), Muskingum (0-9)
Watched JCU until they scored; had Heidelberg on for most of the night while watching Marietta on a second screen. Defense is what is needed to make the conference tournament. While Kenyon's offense continues to frustrate our friend PN, they are getting results from their defense.
Marietta's senior GK is 5-0-1 - no goals conceded. Frosh keeper was in the nets for both losses. BW concedes a lot of goals - GK can be baited to coming too far outside his 6 (unnecessarily IMO). We'll see them head to head in Sat. If Marietta continues with their patient counter-attack they should win 2-0 min.
Wilmington over Hanover. Hmmmm. I expected Hanover to go through a rebuilding year - but that early season win at TM impressed me. At Manchester Sat - saw, again last night, how frustrating it is to play against them - sit in deep and wait. Won't be surprised if Manchester nicks it 1-0, but if Hanover gets on top early it might be 3-0 or more. Need to see if Manchester can attack if they need to - so far, conceding first means game over.
But there's Wilmington with their best non-conference record in years. No shame in their losses to TM and Maryville - Denison is improving - tough non conference schedule may have prepared them for a weaker NCAC conference. I expect a reality check on Sat at JCU - but I will be interested to see how they play. And Denison hosting TM today will tell us how far Denison has come.
Capital finds out A LOT about their young team today at OWU and Sat vs Otterbein. Looks like the rain holds off today - grass not Cap's best surface. Today's game is won at the midfield - in Cap's losses the midfield has been overrun and submissive.
AMCC - those traditional middle table teams are interesting this year. Mt Aloyious's record exposed yesterday, but Franciscan and Medaille might be real challengers to "box of chocolates" PSU-B. Very unimpressive result vs D'Youville yesterday.
Frustrating night for OWU, losing 1-0 to Capital after conceding a poor goal against the run of play. Tough lesson, but OWU never got out of second gear until it was too late. Capital was happy to concede territory and possession, but rather than jump on that OWU just waltzed upfield in the first half. Pace was a bit better in the second, but it only takes one counterattack. Capital player tried a speculative shot from distance that was partially blocked, OWU keeper came out, another forward beat the keeper to the ball and tapped into an open net. OWU created a few more chances and missed a sitter with a couple minutes to go, but couldn't find the net. Not a conference loss, but could be a killer for Pool C.
Mostly disappointed with the lack of fire. OWU had to know Cap would come out fired up, given that Cap always gets up for this game and they got spanked last time out. Considering Capital had conceded 9 goals in their last three games, I had hoped to see a killer instinct. Just wasn't there.
Cap played hard and showed some pace going forward. I'm guessing Yost made some moves to be tighter at the back, which paid off, as they limited OWU's clear-cut chances. They'll need to do more to challenge John Carroll in the OAC, as I don't think they can afford to sit as deep against JCU as they did today.
At this point, seems like the Great Lakes has John Carroll and Carnegie, then a bunch of decent teams. Also, looks like the OAC is probably better than the NCAC this year. I'd still favor Kenyon and OWU over any non-JCU team in a one-off, but the OAC looks to have a stronger overall group at the top with Cap, ONU, Heidelberg, and Otterbein.
Cap-OWU: A well fought battle by both sides last night. Capital played their best game of the year IMO - not only based on how well the three lines stayed connected and how well they communicated with each other but by the competitiveness they demonstrated. The 50/50 battles were contested and Cap won their fair share; "second balls" were challenged and many won. The forwards backed up their speed with incredible effort - speed with a purpose as they pressed better than any other time this season.
These efforts provide the moments necessary for a counter-attacking to get their opportunities on goal. Against teams like OWU you may only get 2-3 quality chances - have cash in on one, which they did.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on September 27, 2017, 09:28:10 PM
At this point, seems like the Great Lakes has John Carroll and Carnegie, then a bunch of decent teams. Also, looks like the OAC is probably better than the NCAC this year. I'd still favor Kenyon and OWU over any non-JCU team in a one-off, but the OAC looks to have a stronger overall group at the top with Cap, ONU, Heidelberg, and Otterbein.
I just don't see how you come up with this conclusion.
Kenyon: 1-2-1 against OAC (1-1-1 removing JCU). They tied Marietta, who might not even be top 4 OAC this year.
OWU: 1-2 against OAC (1-1 removing JCU) Now I understand OWU, Capital had to play a great game, but it was away to OWU.
I would not be taking Kenyon in a game vs. Heidelberg or Capital. OWU might make a little more sense, but still it's far from obvious.
2017
OAC vs. NCAC....18-8-1...Last year was 500 ...
OAC 28 games over 500 already in 2017........NCAC 3 games UNDER 500 for all games pre-conference...
Cap 7-0 vs. the NCAC last 2 years...
Quote from: bestfancle on September 28, 2017, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on September 27, 2017, 09:28:10 PM
At this point, seems like the Great Lakes has John Carroll and Carnegie, then a bunch of decent teams. Also, looks like the OAC is probably better than the NCAC this year. I'd still favor Kenyon and OWU over any non-JCU team in a one-off, but the OAC looks to have a stronger overall group at the top with Cap, ONU, Heidelberg, and Otterbein.
I just don't see how you come up with this conclusion.
Kenyon: 1-2-1 against OAC (1-1-1 removing JCU). They tied Marietta, who might not even be top 4 OAC this year.
OWU: 1-2 against OAC (1-1 removing JCU) Now I understand OWU, Capital had to play a great game, but it was away to OWU.
I would not be taking Kenyon in a game vs. Heidelberg or Capital. OWU might make a little more sense, but still it's far from obvious.
I know you OAC guys are feeling pumped up, and rightfully so, but very, very few people on this board would pick against Kenyon or OWU in a NCAA 1st or 2nd round match versus Cap, Heidelberg, Otterbein, Marietta, etc. They also would be favored over ONU and close to even odds versus JCU. If memory serves, an OAC team has not won a single NCAA game since 2012. Kenyon and OWU have played in huge tournament games. Kenyon sucks right now but they are still better than any OAC team not named JCU. Maybe watch that game again.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 28, 2017, 07:55:23 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on September 28, 2017, 01:06:41 PM
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on September 27, 2017, 09:28:10 PM
At this point, seems like the Great Lakes has John Carroll and Carnegie, then a bunch of decent teams. Also, looks like the OAC is probably better than the NCAC this year. I'd still favor Kenyon and OWU over any non-JCU team in a one-off, but the OAC looks to have a stronger overall group at the top with Cap, ONU, Heidelberg, and Otterbein.
I just don't see how you come up with this conclusion.
Kenyon: 1-2-1 against OAC (1-1-1 removing JCU). They tied Marietta, who might not even be top 4 OAC this year.
OWU: 1-2 against OAC (1-1 removing JCU) Now I understand OWU, Capital had to play a great game, but it was away to OWU.
I would not be taking Kenyon in a game vs. Heidelberg or Capital. OWU might make a little more sense, but still it's far from obvious.
I know you OAC guys are feeling pumped up, and rightfully so, but very, very few people on this board would pick against Kenyon or OWU in a NCAA 1st or 2nd round match versus Cap, Heidelberg, Otterbein, Marietta, etc. They also would be favored over ONU and close to even odds versus JCU. If memory serves, an OAC team has not won a single NCAA game since 2012. Kenyon and OWU have played in huge tournament games. Kenyon sucks right now but they are still better than any OAC team not named JCU. Maybe watch that game again.
I was at that game, and I said it was even. The thing is, JCU keeps getting results and looking better, while Kenyon is losing to subpar teams.
Loss to Heidelberg, with ties to Marietta and Thomas More before that is just not good. At the start of the season, these results could be viewed as one-offs, but they have been repeating stale results.
If you were ranking the top teams from both conferences, Kenyon is 4th or 5th (or even 6th), it's that simple. OWU looks much better than Kenyon, JCU looks much better than Kenyon.
Kenyon looks a lot closer to Capital, Marietta, and Heidelberg than they do to JCU. Heck, even ONU is getting more credit than Kenyon right now (even though I think that is fluff). Scoring goals is just as important as every other aspect of the game.
This isn't anti-NCAC, the NCAC is better every year in recent history. I would bet the NCAC will be stronger than the OAC next year too. Just on a team by team basis, Kenyon doesn't look elite (while they look great at times) and the results have been poor.
bestfancle, maybe we are missing each other.
You said Kenyon looked even with JCU.
There is no question that Kenyon has had disappointing results. The results are what they are. That said, I watched all of those games. Marietta and TMC were not competitive. Heidelberg was more so, but Kenyon still dominated possession 80/20. They haven't been scoring but that can go in waves too. Perhaps you're not remembering Jeon missing open nets from a 8 and 6 against JCU. JCU didn't score until late. Based on results, Kenyon is about where you suggested but you have them 1-2 slots too low. But based on the eye test, they are still better than all of those teams except for JCU, and much better than some of them. Case just beat Lycoming. Is that result real? Kenyon beat Case and with a 24 to 8 shot mismatch. And oh yeah, Kenyon beat CMU....assuming we're going purely by results.
2017 results should matter more than "past performance" and Endowments..
The NCAA should take 2-3 teams from the OAC this year...
The NCAC should get one......
Pretty obvious..
Looking at GL conferences after most have finished their non-conference schedule. Using Massey to rank teams, compare to preseason expectations and look ahead at the potential paths to the NCAA's.
OAC - heading into conference play this weekend:
- JCU - all games against the top tier are away except ONU. Wins on the road increase SoS by a factor of 1.25 - all road results against these teams only solidify JCU's position as a NCAA lock.
- Note the SoS for Capital and JCU - their road schedules are tougher and therefore their SoS stronger. Capital is one of the bubble teams that could land a Pool C bid.
- Heidelberg - needs the conference title or the conference tournament to reach the post season. OAC followers are all too familiar with the 17-4 JCU team that didn't get a bid - lost that to Heidelberg. They could be 14-2 before the OAC tourney, win 1, lose one - 15-3 - and not make the post season because of SoS.
Team |
Record |
SoS |
SSF |
Preseason |
Away |
| John Carroll | 8-0-1 |
14 |
20 |
1 | @Heidelberg, Capital, Marietta, Otterbein |
| Heidelberg | 7-0-0 |
212 |
110 |
NR | @ONU, Marietta |
| Ohio Northern | 7-2-1 |
98 |
60 |
2 | @Otterbein, JCU |
| Capital | 6-3-0 |
41 |
30 |
3 | @ONU, Heidelberg |
| Otterbein | 6-2-0 |
157 |
74 |
5 | @Capital, Heidelberg, Marietta |
| Marietta | 6-2-1 |
143 |
77 |
4 | @Capital, ONU |
| Mt Union | 4-4-0 |
81 |
50 |
6 | @Heidelberg, Marietta, JCU |
| Wilmington OH | 6-3-1 |
232 |
149 |
| Baldwin-Wallace | 4-5-1 |
191 |
117 |
| Muskingum | 2-6-1 |
282 |
178 |
NCAC - each team with one conference game on the books:
- Kenyon has one of the "top" tier games away - all else are at home.
- OWU not only has the majority of top-tier games away, they still have a road contest at Thomas More. Depending on how the NCAC shapes up - the 4 teams that qualify for the NCAC tourney - OWU could be a legit Pool C candidate due to that SoS. Last year made it with a 10-3-2 record while NOT making their own NCAC tournament.
- Oberlin also with a tough non-conference game remaining at Case; not seeing them make the top 4.
| Team | Record | SoS | SSF | Preseason | Away |
| Kenyon | 6-2-2 | 26 | 33 | 1 | @OWU |
| Ohio Wesleyan | 5-4-0 | 2 | 26 | 2 | @Oberlin, TM, DePauw, Wabash, Denison |
| Denison | 4-5-0 | 20 | 34 | 6 | @Kenyon, Wabash |
| Oberlin | 4-4-1 | 92 | 75 | 3 | @Case, Denison, Kenyon, DePauw |
| Wabash | 7-2-0 | 284 | 188 | 3 | @Kenyon, Oberlin, DePauw |
| DePauw | 3-4-1 | 87 | 73 | 5 | @Denison, Kenyon |
| Wooster | 6-4-0 | 224 | 162 | 8 |
| Allegheny | 3-6-0 | 75 | 66 | 7 |
| Hiram | 2-7-0 | 96 | 80 | 8 |
| Wittenberg | 2-7-1 | 151 | 142 | 10 |
Heartland - right away those weak SoS tell you only one team, as last year, gets invited to the post season. Transy is in the same boat as Heidelberg - AQ or nothing. Transy's 4 game road swing starts after the home game against RH this weekend. After the third - at Hanover - the fourth is at Manchester. This team has to guard against mental or emotional let-downs during that 4-game stretch. Imagine if they go 17-1 - undefeated conference play, win first playoff game and lose the final - and fail to get a bid. That would be a tough call for the committee, but they would have their pre-conference schedule to blame if it did
| Team | Record | SoS | SSF | Preseason | Away |
| Transylvania | 7-0-0 | 236 | 262 | 1 | @Hanover, Manchester |
| Hanover | 5-3-0 | 200 | 249 | 3 | @RH |
| Rose-Hulman | 5-3-1 | 180 | 244 | 2 | @Transy |
| Manchester | 4-5-0 | 163 | 238 | 5 |
| Anderson | 4-4-1 | 304 | 305 | 7 |
| Mt St Joseph | 2-5-1 | 231 | 271 | 4 |
| Defiance | 3-3-2 | 331 | 317 | 9 |
| Earlham | 0-8-0 | 150 | 251 | 6 |
| Franklin | 1-7-0 | 346 | 322 | 8 |
| Bluffton | 0-8-0 | 303 | 293 | 10 |
PRaC - I lean towards a one-bid view for this conference, but there are scenarios where TM could not win the AQ and sneak in with a Pool C. A home win vs OWU might have a big impact - more that the conference games themselves, but winning against GC and Geneva, and an OWU win could do it for them. Geneva and GC need the AQ - no Pool C for them.
| Team | Record | SoS | SSF | Preseason | Away |
| Thomas More | 4-4-1 | 38 | 109 | 2 | @ GC |
| Grove City | 4-2-1 | 76 | 145 | 3 | @ W&J |
| Geneva | 6-2-2 | 181 | 224 | 1 | @GC, @TM |
| Wash & Jeff | 7-2-0 | 254 | 237 | 4 | @Geneva, @TM |
| Westminster | 4-4-1 | 255 | 245 | 5 | @ W&J, @TM |
| Bethany WV | 4-5-0 | 244 | 241 | 6 | @GC, @Geneva |
| Waynesburg | 2-4-5 | 341 | 286 | 7 |
| Thiel | 3-5-0 | 335 | 290 | 9 |
| St Vincent | 3-6-1 | 369 | 316 | 8 |
AMCC - an obvious one-bid conference - but who will it be? Medaille has home games against all the top-tier teams - ball's in their possession as far as I'm concerned. Fransciscan and PSU-B already at 2-0, Medaille at 1-1.
| Team | Record | SoS | SSF | Preseason | Away |
| PSU-Behrend | 7-3-0 | 168 | 213 | 1 | @CMU, Medaille |
| Medaille | 6-4-0 | 197 | 254 | 2 |
| Franciscan | 7-2-0 | 311 | 302 | 5 | @Mt. Aly, PSU-B |
| Mt Aloysius | 8-1-1 | 343 | 351 | 6 | @PSU-B |
| La Roche | 4-6-0 | 271 | 274 | 4 |
| Pitt-Greensburg | 2-6-1 | 328 | 359 | 9 |
| D'Youville | 1-7-1 | 245 | 311 | 8 |
| PSU-Altoona | 2-7-0 | 344 | 339 | 3 |
| Pitt-Bradford | 2-7-1 | 338 | 334 | 7 |
| Hilbert | 0-8-0 | 349 | 371 | 10 |
Ball would be in Medailles possession but they've already dropped a game to Mt. Aloy and will have to run the table in the regular season for home field advantage
Quote from: Domino1195 on September 29, 2017, 02:52:01 PM
AMCC - an obvious one-bid conference - but who will it be? Medaille has home games against all the top-tier teams - ball's in their possession as far as I'm concerned. Fransciscan and PSU-B already at 2-0, Medaille at 1-1.
| Team | Record | SoS[/CENT
| SSF | Preseason | Away |
| PSU-Behrend | 7-3-0 | 168 | 213 | 1 | @CMU, Medaille |
| Medaille | 6-4-0 | 197 | 254 | 2 |
| Franciscan | 7-2-0 | 311 | 302 | 5 | @Mt. Aly, PSU-B |
| Mt Aloysius | 8-1-1 | 343 | 351 | 6 | @PSU-B |
| La Roche | 4-6-0 | 271 | 274 | 4 |
| Pitt-Greensburg | 2-6-1 | 328 | 359 | 9 |
| D'Youville | 1-7-1 | 245 | 311 | 8 |
| PSU-Altoona | 2-7-0 | 344 | 339 | 3 |
| Pitt-Bradford | 2-7-1 | 338 | 334 | 7 |
| Hilbert | 0-8-0 | 349 | 371 | 10 |
Domino - FYI, the home/away multiplier is no longer in effect.
As for who I'd favor, I have a short answer, a slightly longer answer, and novel that I won't write. Short answer: I've watched everyone play and, right now, I'd favor Kenyon and OWU over any non-JCU team from the OAC. Doesn't mean they'd win, obviously - see OWU-Capital.
Slightly longer answer: I think some of us differ in the weight we give a few results. For example, I give no weight to Kenyon-Marietta. The only thing I took from it is that Kenyon sometimes struggles for goals - which I already knew.
Team-by-team, I'm setting Otterbein aside for now because Kenyon smoked them and they don't have a quality win just yet.
OWU beat ONU and looked better, on the road. OWU lost to Cap, but were the better side even on an off-day. OWU-Heidelberg is hypothetical, but Heidelberg's played one team besides Kenyon with a winning record...Anderson, who just lost 8-0 to ONU. OWU has proven they can hang with top 10 teams. Heidelberg can get there, but haven't done it for me yet. As I said at the time, I was impressed with Heidelberg against Kenyon. But very few teams go from 7-10 to world-beaters the next season. I'm withholding judgment until I see more results against good teams.
As for Kenyon, I think it boils down to whether you think the "real" Kenyon is the one that beat Carnegie and played JCU pretty even or the one that lost to Heidelberg and tied Thomas More and Marietta. I think Kenyon is much closer to the former than the latter. They should have put Heidelberg to bed and they dominated TM and Marietta. That, to me, looks more like a temporary funk than anything else.
You can't ignore results, but if I'm picking a favorite in a given game I'm not going off a random 20 minutes of soccer. Look at it this way - John Carroll outplayed OWU for 75 minutes out of 110. Yet OWU should have won that game (you should win any game you lead with under 10 to play). If OWU had held on for that last two minutes, who would you pick in a rematch? Right now, I'd still favor JCU.
For Pool C, looks like 6 teams with a chance. JCU, barring a collapse, is a Pool C lock. Same with Carnegie. For the rest - ONU, Heidelberg, Capital, OWU, and Kenyon - a dominant conference season is probably required.
In the OAC, Heidelberg's SOS isn't very good so they need a few more ranked wins and have a smaller margin for error. Cap's SOS is pretty good and they have two likely ranked wins (St. Thomas & OWU). But they already have 3 losses, two by blowout (although not sure how the committee views that). ONU likely has zero ranked wins at the moment, so they need to beat the other top teams.
In the NCAC, Kenyon and OWU each only has one ranked win right now and might only have two more chances: each other and Wabash (if they keep it up). That lowers the margin for error. Kenyon will hope Heidelberg struggles to negate the head-to-head edge. OWU will do the same for Cap, but has the edge over ONU. Both teams should have good SOS numbers, and OWU's will be very high. But the rest of the league struggling out of conference will hurt that too.
After the first night of OAC action, things were reasonably expected.
JCU (1-0) beats Wilmington 4-2. JCU did not look great, they were up 3-0 and looked like they had the game under control, then let up on the gas once again. I'm not sure if they underestimated Wilmington, but JCU has a very tough week ahead and will have to be more clinical and better defensively to avoid a blemish.
Heidelberg (1-0) beat Muskingum only 2-1. I think this might have been a wakeup call for Heidelberg. Musky is historically the worst team in the OAC. Interesting to note, Heidelburg made 0 saves, and only gave up a goal on a 1 on 1, so defensively they might have been alright.
Marietta (1-0) smashed BW 5-2. BW was up 2-0 at the start of the match, before Etta woke up and put a beating on them. BW might not have the OAC season I expected of them. Just so weak at the back.
Northern (1-0) beat mount 1-0, but were out shot and out cornered. Northern recieved a 2nd yellow near the end of the match and Mount deserved a tie.
Otterbein (1-0)beat Capital 1-0, which is really bad for Capital's chances at getting an at-large bid. Seems like otterbein played them tough, and Capital tried to come out and even the 2nd half but couldn't do it.
Tuesday Carroll Plays away at 'Berg at 4 PM and must be on their game. This is a huge game, both teams without a loss. In many ways this could decide the 1 seed for the OAC tournament.
What in the heck is going on at Oberlin? Lose to Wittenberg and stats say Witt actually dominated.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 01, 2017, 03:27:49 PM
What in the heck is going on at Oberlin? Lose to Wittenberg and stats say Witt actually dominated.
Using our previous discussion: I don't think the team has the attitude necessary to compete in the NCAC. And the defensive players lost to graduation have not been adequately replaced.
GL top 12 - week ahead. Been dry as the desert last couple weeks - forecast calls for rain 6 consecutive days. My back is killing me from reffing 6 games this week on concrete - I welcome the rain - but it may impact some games:
- JCU with two potentially challenging road tests. Marietta beats ONU last year on their home field - rain will affect this field. Heidelberg has played on turf and grass at home; 4pm start leads me to believe this will be on grass.
- CMU with a very difficult game at Brandeis - getting any points from this game will be a surprise.
- Kenyon has a schedule-maker's gift - a week off and one home game against a weaker Wabash team. Again - rain could impact the playing surface.
- Transy converts a beautiful FK from 20 yds out for the only goal vs RH. Two games away against bottom-tier clubs - need to keep focused.
- Berg survived a less than dominant performance at Muskingum. Temps expected to be in the high 80's for Tuesday's JCU match - dry conditions. If they get a result here I'm going to become a believer.
- OWU saw how scrappy Wooster can be - I still think Wooster gets into the NCAC's tourney. Speaking of scrappy - this week's game at TM will be just that.
- ONU battles to a 1-0 win at Mt. Union, who plays a tough, bunkered-in defensive style. ONU loses their starting GK to a RC suspension for their game at Otterbein. Capital on turf Sat night.
- Otterbein played a fantastic game at Capital Sat night. Very disciplined and organized defense - got the early goal and defended excellently second half. Not sure how the back-up keeper affects Tuesday's game - but I would think 1-0 would be the final - just not sure who gets this one.
- Case "should" bag two wins this week. N ina ow let's play the games.
- Capital and Otterbein was a truly great college soccer game, played by two evenly matched teams. Sometimes we are tempted to find fault in a loss, especially here in Columbus, Ohio (I'm sure someone is complaining about the OSU football game from Sat as I write). But I thought both team executed their game plans very well. Wilmington's two goals against JCU caught my eye - Tuesday at Wilmington.
- Marietta has the SE Ohio derby before the JCU game this weekend. The Muskies are going to give everyone who goes to New Concord a battle - DO NOT look past them Marietta . . .
- TM with three this week - that OWU game in the middle of two conference games certainly could be very distracting. I think TM is the conference champion - and they don't want to lose home field for the conference tourney. Nice break getting all three games at home.
| Team | Record | SoS | SSF | Week Ahead |
| John Carroll | 9-0-1 | 20 | 22 | @Heidelberg, @ Marietta |
| Carnegie Mellon | 7-1-1 | 19 | 6 | PSU-B, @Brandeis |
| Kenyon | 7-2-2 | 23 | 34 | Wabash |
| Transylvania | 8-0-0 | 231 | 260 | @Mt. St Joseph, @Defiance |
| Heidelberg | 8-0-0 | 223 | 103 | JCU, Mt. Union |
| Ohio Wesleyan | 6-4-0 | 11 | 25 | @Thomas More, Allegheny |
| Ohio Northern | 8-2-1 | 81 | 56 | @Otterbein, Capital |
| Otterbein | 7-2-0 | 108 | 65 | ONU, Muskingum |
| Case Western | 4-5-1 | 4 | 2 | Oberlin, @NYU |
| Capital | 6-4-0 | 37 | 29 | @Wilmington, @ONU |
| Marietta | 7-2-1 | 142 | 73 | @Muskingum, JCU |
| Thomas More | 5-4-1 | 29 | 94 | W&J, OWU, Waynesburg |
https://boxcast.tv/view/mens-soccer-vs-john-carroll-856649
Link to the #4 JCU at #20 Heidelberg game for those interested!
JCU goes down 2-0 early, only to score one off the kickoff. Almost end of the first half Berg 2 - JCU 1.
Heidelberg beats JCU 3-2, could have been a tie.
The stream was bad quality, but 'Burg had two chances at the end to make it 4-2 when JCU started throwing guys forward.
Heidelberg's Freshman Corey Gilbert is from the same school at JCU's Captain Marinaro. Had to feel good to have such a good game against the high school teammate.
I'm not sure if Heidelberg jumps JCU in rankings, but it is close. Once again, JCU's schedule played against them. Heidelberg has a tough field that is good for their style of play (counter), JCU struggled to create. If I was JCU, I would be itching to meet these guys again. Relatively ameature move in my opinion to storm the pitch after a regular season in-conference win.
Credit to Heidelburg, they came in and executed a great gameplan! Things will be much more exciting during the OAC season now with both of these teams ranked for the foreseeable future.
It will be interesting to see where this puts the great lakes region rankings, but I wouldn't be surprised to see both OAC schools and CMU in the top 3...
Defensive consistency - or lack of - is the story line for GL teams. Those playing the most consistently on defense are getting results. Of teams I've seen this past week I'd say CMU, Otterbein and Heidelberg are doing what is needed to get W's. Otterbein was fortunate not to concede last night - ONU did get past the outside backs a few times - but the central defense and GK kept it clean. While ONU was missing their starting keeper, both header goals are on the backs. When a 5'4" attacker scores a header goal . . . Heidelberg shows great patience on defense, waiting to get the counter. Two long balls down the middle, splitting the JCU CB's - two goals.
Disciplined defensive teams will rarely win the "stat" sheet battles - time of possession is meaningless when playing these teams. Even shots can be misleading - they do not tell you if these were quality chances or long distance bombs. Side note: official stats leave a lot to be desired, having attended games and comparing later to what I saw versus what the score sheet states.
So . . . I watched Oberlin vs Case up to Oberlin's second goal and turned it off . . .
Oberlin is a competent team - skillful. But I stand by my assessment that they lack the "killer" instinct - and allowing Case to come back and tie it with two late goals speaks to this assessment.
Last night Case was not competent. First half pass completion rate to Oberlin players was about 90%. They are far too slow making decisions on the ball, and then they made the wrong decisions. Second half they attacked with purpose but were inept with their finishing. Case got in deep several times and tried to make another pass when a shot was the better choice. The goals they conceded were self-inflicted - poor attempt to challenge for a ball leading to a 2v2 break; got caught flat in the back and a through ball to Oberlin's leading scorer was all she wrote. The keeper hesitated just enough - felt badly for him - may have been better to stay in the 6 given the angle the attacker had and the retreating runs by his defenders - but that's armchair analysis for you.
At best Case wins 1 to 2 more games this year. Oberlin wins 3, maybe 4. Of course, this is based on their opponents playing their A game.
OAC NEWS:
POW: Tom Sloan, two goals for the week including one in Marietta's OAC opener vs. BW
Standings:
HEIDELBERG 2-0 9-0
OTTERBEIN 2-0 8-2
MARIETTA 2-0 8-2-1
JOHN CARROLL 1-1 9-1-1
ONU 1-1 8-3-1
CAPITAL 1-1 7-4
MOUNT UNION 1-1 5-5
WILMINGTON 0-2 6-5-1
BW 0-2 4-7-1
MUSKINGUM 0-2 2-8-1
Games of the Weekend:
10/6:
Wilmington at Baldwin Wallace 7:30 PM
10/7:
Muskingum at Otterbein 1:00 PM
Mount Union at Heidelberg 1:00 PM
John Carroll at Marietta 4:00 PM
Capital at Ohio Northern 7:00 PM
Going back to that JCU game, they were heavily outplayed for the first 10 minutes but looked better the rest of the game. JCU has a huge problem with getting split down the middle of the field. I remember someone mentioning that JCU is a "lock" barring a meltdown. Losing to Heidelberg is not a meltdown, but losing this week to Marietta would be the start of one. Sometimes a loss can be a good thing for a team, so hopefully JCU takes this the right way. It would greatly benefit them if Heidelberg can somehow lose a game or two and forfeit home field in the OAC tournament, because their field is tough for a team like JCU to win on.
This is also a huge test for Marietta this weekend. They have a pretty good record for the games they scheduled this year. Earlier they beat Case and tied Kenyon. By no means a walk in the park for JCU.
Otterbein and Wilmington should both have easy match-ups this weekend.
The late game is Capital vs ONU, two teams typically in the top 4 of the OAC each year. This year there might not be room for both in the top 4. I think ONU wins this game. Traveling to Ada is always tough and I have mentioned 1000 times that ONU is a different beast in the OAC season. Ridenour has the team film trained like beasts.
Wabash at Kenyon tomorrow afternoon. The strength of the Wabash squad is along the back. If we can hold the Lords to a scoreless draw, I would be extremely happy with that performance from the Little Giants.
Quote from: Little Giant 89 on October 06, 2017, 11:00:15 AM
Wabash at Kenyon tomorrow afternoon. The strength of the Wabash squad is along the back. If we can hold the Lords to a scoreless draw, I would be extremely happy with that performance from the Little Giants.
From the other point of view Kenyon cannot afford a draw (or loss) to Wabash. Kenyon to have any shot at a Pool C needs to be clean the rest of the way. They might be able to absorb a loss to OWU in the NCAC tourney, and of course OWU will be sky-high for the regular season matchup on their home field. Basically I think they might be able to afford one more loss. If they lose to OWU in a couple of weeks they probably need to win the AQ. The loss to Heidelberg basically left them with no margin for error.
RH will know better than I, but, again from the Kenyon/NCAC perspective, Heidelberg's win over JCU was a killer. Heidelberg now are already going to have two ranked wins (Kenyon and JCU).
I'm guessing the only scenario where the NCAC gets two bids is if Kenyon goes clean and loses in NCAC tourney and OWU wins the AQ. Hard to see anyone other than Kenyon being in a Pool C conversation at this point.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 06, 2017, 12:43:19 PM
Quote from: Little Giant 89 on October 06, 2017, 11:00:15 AM
Wabash at Kenyon tomorrow afternoon. The strength of the Wabash squad is along the back. If we can hold the Lords to a scoreless draw, I would be extremely happy with that performance from the Little Giants.
From the other point of view Kenyon cannot afford a draw (or loss) to Wabash. Kenyon to have any shot at a Pool C needs to be clean the rest of the way. They might be able to absorb a loss to OWU in the NCAC tourney, and of course OWU will be sky-high for the regular season matchup on their home field. Basically I think they might be able to afford one more loss. If they lose to OWU in a couple of weeks they probably need to win the AQ. The loss to Heidelberg basically left them with no margin for error.
RH will know better than I, but, again from the Kenyon/NCAC perspective, Heidelberg's win over JCU was a killer. Heidelberg now are already going to have two ranked wins (Kenyon and JCU).
I'm guessing the only scenario where the NCAC gets two bids is if Kenyon goes clean and loses in NCAC tourney and OWU wins the AQ. Hard to see anyone other than Kenyon being in a Pool C conversation at this point.
We'll find out about Wabash's soft schedule tomorrow. I would have bet Heidelberg's schedule wouldn't have prepared them for tougher games - but look what they've done. A young team's confidence remains high after such a start - they were overconfident vs Manchester - got refocused vs JCU. That's encouraging if you're a Berg fan.
Wabash's losses to Hanover and RH aren't horrible losses - the Hanover loss gets a boost when Hanover beats Transy next week. They've beaten 1 team that has a winning record. If SoS means ANYTHING this year . . . I can't imagine them getting any kind of result tomorrow.
OWU has some real issues on defense. I can't see Kenyon losing a NCAC game this season - even at OWU. I know PN is skeptical - but I rely on what my eyes tell me about how a team's playing and the mistakes they're making.
The Slim Shady game of the day in the NCAC is Denison vs DePauw.
TM is better than they were to start the season - they win the PRaC and get the AQ - if not that may take a Pool C from someone. Imagine the quandary a committee member might have if: OWU beats ONU away, loses to Cap at home, TM away; ONU beats TM at home, loses to OWU at home; Cap beats OWU away, loses to TM away. If Cap pull out a win tomorrow night at ONU - you got one fine mess . . .
Quote from: bestfancle on October 06, 2017, 07:59:26 AM
OAC NEWS:
POW: Tom Sloan, two goals for the week including one in Marietta's OAC opener vs. BW
Standings:
HEIDELBERG 2-0 9-0
OTTERBEIN 2-0 8-2
MARIETTA 2-0 8-2-1
JOHN CARROLL 1-1 9-1-1
ONU 1-1 8-3-1
CAPITAL 1-1 7-4
MOUNT UNION 1-1 5-5
WILMINGTON 0-2 6-5-1
BW 0-2 4-7-1
MUSKINGUM 0-2 2-8-1
Games of the Weekend:
10/6:
Wilmington at Baldwin Wallace 7:30 PM
10/7:
Muskingum at Otterbein 1:00 PM
Mount Union at Heidelberg 1:00 PM
John Carroll at Marietta 4:00 PM
Capital at Ohio Northern 7:00 PM
Going back to that JCU game, they were heavily outplayed for the first 10 minutes but looked better the rest of the game. JCU has a huge problem with getting split down the middle of the field. I remember someone mentioning that JCU is a "lock" barring a meltdown. Losing to Heidelberg is not a meltdown, but losing this week to Marietta would be the start of one. Sometimes a loss can be a good thing for a team, so hopefully JCU takes this the right way. It would greatly benefit them if Heidelberg can somehow lose a game or two and forfeit home field in the OAC tournament, because their field is tough for a team like JCU to win on.
This is also a huge test for Marietta this weekend. They have a pretty good record for the games they scheduled this year. Earlier they beat Case and tied Kenyon. By no means a walk in the park for JCU.
Otterbein and Wilmington should both have easy match-ups this weekend.
The late game is Capital vs ONU, two teams typically in the top 4 of the OAC each year. This year there might not be room for both in the top 4. I think ONU wins this game. Traveling to Ada is always tough and I have mentioned 1000 times that ONU is a different beast in the OAC season. Ridenour has the team film trained like beasts.
Wilmington is a very undisciplined team They have some athletes for sure, but the box score is incorrect with the number of YC vs Capital: they had 5. FIVE. All in the last 20+ minutes. 21 YC for the year. We know BW can score - and maybe - if they score first - they can hang on. If BW is leading late in the game I'd consider short-term health insurance coverage for their team.
JCU stuck it to Marietta last year in the OAC playoffs 7-1. Marietta's 7 seniors, 7 juniors were part of that game. Not only did they stick it to them on the scoreboard, they started the game at 4pm on a Wednesday afternoon, knowing Marietta had a 2.5-3 hour bus ride on game day. Tomorrow on wet grass at 4pm.
Berg is 3-0 vs Mt Union last three years - 8-0 goals. Mt Union hasn't scored against Berg since 2013.
Cap and ONU have a lot to play for re: Pool C. These two, along with Thomas More and OWU, have played one another with very mixed results. A (typical) slow start for Capital can be fatal - as it was in last year's OAC tourney game - down 2-0 with 10 minutes. Capital is tall and does damage on set pieces - ONU concedes two header goals vs Otterbein this week.
And of course Heidelberg draws 0-0 with Mt Union....and Denision and DePauw go scoreless as well.
Denison is a mystery....good school, reasonable admissions, popular for Northeast and New England folks....and multiple bad years in a row.
The Lords win 2-1 with a goal in extra time.
Massey rankings with a few other items from NCAA stats. Was curious about GA/GF, Fouls and YC.
- JCU - Offense could have a field day vs BW; 3 of last 4 vs ONU draws – two in OAC tourney play – won both in KFTM by JCU.
- CMU - any points this week will be a plus. Cannot see Chicago dropping two straight at home, in conference.
- Kenyon - concedes first point for Wabash from a team in the top 50% of DIII schools. Kenyon plays first road game in a month - Wooster with a heart-breaking loss to Wittenberg with 7 second to go. Expecting a physical affair on Wednesday. 2-0 this week.
- Berg - great win vs JCU - runs into the parked bus on Sat. History is all against Berg on Wednesday at ONU - how do they respond after their first loss of the year on Sat vs Otterbein?
- Transy - overcame 1st minute PK at Defiance. Hanover 7-1 last 8, 10 goals last two. Not only does Transy lose at Hanover – could drop points at Manchester if they suffer a let down.
- Otterbein - 7 game win streak comes from 6 at home; 4 of their last 6 on the road. Wilmington on the verge of becoming a hack team – two straight 5 YC games. They get Heidelberg after Bergs first loss of the year.
- Capital - Mt Union puts 12 men behind the ball; they park fleets of buses. Took Cap 215+ minutes to score one goal vs Mt.Union last year – Cap with 15 goals on the year, two starting forwards with injury. Could be another 0-0 game.
- OWU - took 1 point from these team last year – Wabash affair with 8 YC. OWU highest of top 12 GL teams fouls committed. You tell me – if OWU stops conceding maybe 4 points.
- Case - got 3 of 4 points last week. Will get 0 this week - maybe 1 win for the rest of the year.
- Thomas More - great week for TM – only one game this week after three last week – Geneva at home next week for what will most likely give TM the conference title. Don't. Look. Ahead.
- ONU - 3 conference home losses since 2012 – all three to Capital (one in OAC play). Drops 2 straight conference games since the time of Moses; haven't lost back to back home games since the Big Bang.
- Marietta - 1-3 vs Union last 4, could be deflated after JCU loss.
| Team | Record | Rat | SoS | SSF | Fouls* | YC* | GF* | GA* | Week Ahead |
| John Carroll | 10-1-1 | 8 | 11 | 20 | 100 | 15 | 27 | 11 | BW, ONU |
| Carnegie Mellon | 8-2-1 | 19 | 9 | 5 | 103 | 10 | 24 | 5 | @Chicago, @Wash U |
| Kenyon | 8-2-2 | 27 | 24 | 31 | 130 | 8 | 26 | 8 | @Wooster, @Hiram |
| Heidelberg | 9-0-1 | 30 | 156 | 98 | 83 | 6 | 20 | 5 | @ONU, Otterbein |
| Transylvania | 10-0 | 33 | 238 | 256 | 67 | 3 | 24 | 4 | @Hanover, @Manchester |
| Otterbein | 9-2 | 40 | 111 | 57 | 129 | 13 | 25 | 9 | @Wilmington, @Heidelberg |
| Capital | 8-4 | 44 | 25 | 26 | 118 | 15 | 15 | 13 | Muskingum, @Mt. Union |
| Ohio Wesleyan | 7-5 | 49 | 15 | 23 | 148 | 16 | 23 | 18 | @DePauw, @Wabash |
| Case Western | 5-5-2 | 52 | 2 | 1 | 66 | 6 | 16 | 10 | @Wash U, @Chicago |
| Thomas More | 8-4-1 | 54 | 45 | 97 | 143 | 15 | 24 | 16 | @St. Vincent |
| Ohio Northern | 8-4-1 | 69 | 70 | 54 | 120 | 9 | 27 | 13 | Berg, @JCU |
| Marietta | 8-3-1 | 82 | 125 | 71 | 96 | 6 | 20 | 7 | Mt. Union, @Wilmington |
| *Through 10/5 |
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 06, 2017, 01:58:11 PM
Cap and ONU have a lot to play for re: Pool C. These two, along with Thomas More and OWU, have played one another with very mixed results. A (typical) slow start for Capital can be fatal - as it was in last year's OAC tourney game - down 2-0 with 10 minutes. Capital is tall and does damage on set pieces - ONU concedes two header goals vs Otterbein this week.
Winning goal was not an own-goal but a flicked-on header from a tall Capital player off a long throw . .
A little surprised at the high jump from NCAA poll. Heidelberg #8, JCU #13. Compared to d3soccer.com that has JCU at #10 and 'Burg at #18. Kenyon and CMU receiving votes in the NCAA Poll, while being ranked #22 and #20 on d3soccer, respectively.
That sure makes for a fun OAC playoffs if both teams can hold til then.
If both teams hold, and make the OAC final, they are basically playing for a home spot in the NCAA, while the other would most likely travel.
Quote from: bestfancle on October 10, 2017, 02:20:17 PM
A little surprised at the high jump from NCAA poll. Heidelberg #8, JCU #13. Compared to d3soccer.com that has JCU at #10 and 'Burg at #18. Kenyon and CMU receiving votes in the NCAA Poll, while being ranked #22 and #20 on d3soccer, respectively.
That sure makes for a fun OAC playoffs if both teams can hold til then.
If both teams hold, and make the OAC final, they are basically playing for a home spot in the NCAA, while the other would most likely travel.
I also was surprised by the big jump in the coach's poll. I think the D3 poll voters do account for SoS more than the coaches.
The GL top ten will be entirely different next week. Berg plays two of the top 10 this week - I already posted the improbably odds of winning at ONU. Otterbein has 4 of the next 6 on the road after a generous home schedule for almost a month (the one road game was 25 miles away at Capital where they had as many (more) fans as did the home team). CMU has a difficult task with two conference road games - both against home teams coming off losses. Transy at Hanover - not seeing a victory - a draw would be an excellent result.
Of this week's top ten you're looking at 5-6 teams getting a loss this week.
OMG - if that wasn't a PK on the Kenyon keeper nothing is . . . minute 50-53 ish.
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 10, 2017, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on October 10, 2017, 02:20:17 PM
A little surprised at the high jump from NCAA poll. Heidelberg #8, JCU #13. Compared to d3soccer.com that has JCU at #10 and 'Burg at #18. Kenyon and CMU receiving votes in the NCAA Poll, while being ranked #22 and #20 on d3soccer, respectively.
That sure makes for a fun OAC playoffs if both teams can hold til then.
If both teams hold, and make the OAC final, they are basically playing for a home spot in the NCAA, while the other would most likely travel.
I also was surprised by the big jump in the coach's poll. I think the D3 poll voters do account for SoS more than the coaches.
The GL top ten will be entirely different next week. Berg plays two of the top 10 this week - I already posted the improbably odds of winning at ONU. Otterbein has 4 of the next 6 on the road after a generous home schedule for almost a month (the one road game was 25 miles away at Capital where they had as many (more) fans as did the home team). CMU has a difficult task with two conference road games - both against home teams coming off losses. Transy at Hanover - not seeing a victory - a draw would be an excellent result.
Of this week's top ten you're looking at 5-6 teams getting a loss this week.
Did you guys think Heidelberg would move ahead of JCU in the Regional Rankings? If so, then Heidelberg was destined to move into the top 8 nationally because of how the NSCAA / USC has traditionally formulated their National Rankings (regional #1's as the top 8, and so on).
I don't want to assume who does or does not know what about the coaches' poll, but there are always new fans on here and so every year it is good to review this for their benefit, and now seems as good a time as any. Traditionally (going back as far as I can remember, +/-2000) the NSCAA / USC has formulated their national ranking by placing the regional #1's as the top 8 in the national ranking, the regional #2's in spots 9 thru 16, and the regional #3's in places 17 thru 24. Then one lucky regional #4 gets the final spot with some or all of the other regional #4's being listed as receiving votes. In 2014 or 2015 there was effort by some within the NSCAA to become more flexible and it resulted in their national rankings deviating from that traditional formulation/framework a little bit (not much, but a little). I haven't followed the NSCAA rankings closely in recent years, but I remember checking in last year and finding a week in which it completely followed the traditional formulation/framework. Looking at the current USC national rankings I see that they have a couple regional #3's above some regional #2's, and two regional #4's while one regional's #3 was not ranked as shown below. Anyway, it's this traditional formulation/framework that results in some pretty drastically moves up and down in the NSCAA / USC national rankings from week to week. If a team moves 1 or 2 spots in the the regional rankings it can result in a pretty significant move in the national rankings regardless of how teams in other regions fared in the previous week. And it means that a weak region will still usually have three teams in the national rankings and a strong region will only have three, maybe four, teams in the national rankings.
United Soccer Coaches NCAA Division III Men - National - Poll 5 - October 10, 2017
Rank School Prev. W-L-TCENTRAL #1 1 Calvin College 2 12-0-0
WEST #1 2 Trinity University (Texas) 3 11-1-0
MID-ATL. #1 3 Messiah College 5 11-1-0
NEW ENG. #1 4 Tufts University 12 8-1-1
NORTH #1 5 University of St. Thomas 7 12-1-0
SO.ATL. #1 6 Rowan University 10 12-2-0
EAST #1 7 SUNY Oneonta 14 9-1-1
G.LAKES #1 8 Heidelberg University NR 9-0-1
NEW ENG. #2 9 Amherst College 8 5-1-2
SO.ATL. #2 10 Rutgers University-Newark 13 14-1-0
MID-ATL. #2 11 Lycoming College 16 12-1-0
CENTRAL #2 12 North Park University 17 9-1-0
G.LAKES #2 13 John Carroll University 4 10-1-1
CENTRAL #3 14 University Of Chicago 1 11-1-0
NEW ENG. #3 15 Brandeis University 15 9-2-0
WEST #2 16 University of Redlands 19 9-3-1
EAST #2 17 Buffalo State College NR 10-1-2
NORTH #2 18 Macalester College 21 7-3-1
EAST #3 19 SUNY Cortland 6 11-2-0
G.LAKES #3 20 Transylvania University 18 9-0-0
WEST #3 21 University Of Mary Hardin-Baylor 22 11-1-0
NEW ENG. #4 22 Springfield College 20 10-0-0
MID-ATL. #3 23 Drew University 24 12-0-1
SO.ATL. #3 24 University Of Mary Washington 25 9-2-1
MID-ATL. #4 25 Johns Hopkins University 9 11-1-1
Good to know FW, I didn't know this. I also didn't expect JCU to get jumped by 'Berg, but I am not super surprised by that.
I think the jump to #1 is a bit much. If they beat ONU and Otterbein this week - sure.
OAC NEWS:
POW: Collin Hoffmann, Otterbein, Goalie in two 'Bein shutouts.
Standings:
OTTERBEIN 3-0 9-2
HEIDELBERG 2-0-1 9-0-1
JOHN CARROLL 2-1 10-1-1
MARIETTA 2-1 8-3-1
CAPITAL 2-1 8-4
MOUNT UNION 1-1-1 5-5-1
OHIO NORTHERN 1-2 8-4-1
WILMINGTON 0-2-1 6-5-2
BALDWIN WALLACE 0-2-1 4-7-2
MUSKINGUM 0-3 2-9-1
Games 10/11:
Mount Union * Marietta 4:00 PM
Baldwin Wallace * John Carroll 7:00 PM
Muskingum * Capital 7:00 PM
Heidelberg * Ohio Northern 7:00 PM
Otterbein * Wilmington 7:00 PM
Pretty cool article posted by Cleveland.com of JCU's coach and his son, who I believe should be a 1st or 2nd team All-American this year: http://www.cleveland.com/dman/2017/10/hector_marinaro_john_carroll_s.html
Well... ONU smashed Heidelberg 4-0. JJ Fortner had a night for ONU. 'Berg probably drops out of national rankings now, or at least Carroll passes them.
JCU beat BW 1-0. Evenly played 1st half, while JCU dominated the 2nd and should have won 2 or 3 to nothing.
Other scores:
Capital 6, Musky 0
Marietta 3, Mt. Union 2
Otterbein 5, Marietta 1
Denison over Oberlin, 2-0.
Massey after yesterday's games.
- Major props to Transy - watched the first half: they are are very solid team. I thought their structure, passing and movement were excellent. For those of us interested in Pool C candidates: PLEASE make sure you win the AQ!!!!
- I added 15 teams as I expect both CMU and Case to drop from the top ten next rankings, and I expect all below Case to win this weekend - a PSU-B win over Franciscan might put them in the top 10-12.
- Watched Geneva - GC yesterday - much of the game played in rainy conditions. Gave up a goofy goal but came back to get the draw - a much better side than GC. PRaC comes down to Geneva at TM next Tuesday. Don't know if Geneva's SoS allows them into the C Pool - TM getting the AQ helps OAC Pool C hopefuls.
- Looks like Denison and Wabash are the leading candidates to round out the NCAC post-season bracket. Denison keeping it clean 3 of last 4
- Otterbein is getting scary as they play with more confidence each game. While I expected Berg to lose I didn't expect 4 goals. How do they respond after their first loss against the Otters on Sat?
- OAC with 6 of the top 12 spots using Massey. ONU at JCU is always a classic. Didn't see the game yesterday but was surprised JCU only got one against BW. Cap at Mt. Union - watched Mt. Union - Marietta yesterday - both defenses/GK's had off days yesterday conceding shaky goals.
Depending on that Otterbein/Berg game next week's top 4 could be JCU, Transy Kenyon and Bein/Berg or Cap
| Team | Conference | Record | Rat | SoS | SSF |
| John Carroll | Ohio AC | 11-1-1 | 8 | 19 | 21 |
| Carnegie Mellon | University AA | 8-2-1 | 19 | 7 | 5 |
| Transylvania | Heartland CAC | 11-0 | 27 | 204 | 254 |
| Kenyon | North Coast AC | 9-2-2 | 28 | 27 | 34 |
| Otterbein | Ohio AC | 10-2 | 33 | 104 | 60 |
| Capital | Ohio AC | 9-4 | 46 | 40 | 27 |
| Heidelberg | Ohio AC | 9-1-1 | 47 | 135 | 106 |
| Ohio Wesleyan | North Coast AC | 7-5-1 | 55 | 20 | 26 |
| Thomas More | Presidents' AC | 8-4-1 | 56 | 46 | 102 |
| Ohio Northern | Ohio AC | 9-4-1 | 57 | 69 | 64 |
| Case Western | University AA | 5-5-2 | 61 | 4 | 1 |
| Marietta | Ohio AC | 9-3-1 | 76 | 129 | 74 |
| Geneva | Presidents' AC | 9-2-2 | 86 | 202 | 226 |
| PSU-Behrend | Allegheny Mtn | 10-4 | 93 | 178 | 208 |
| Denison | North Coast AC | 5-6-1 | 98 | 14 | 31 |
OWU @ Wabash - noon start. Gamesmanship?? I'd be surprised if OWU spent the night but that's close to a 4 hour drive - they'd have to leave 6:30?
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 14, 2017, 10:09:56 AM
OWU @ Wabash - noon start. Gamesmanship?? I’d be surprised if OWU spent the night but that’s close to a 4 hour drive - they’d have to leave 6:30?
I'd be shocked if they DIDN'T spend the night. It's not like Martin just woke up yesterday.
Maybe my Greek compatriot will chime in.
Unless you're playing in the UAA I don't see the need for overnight trips in conference play. I would think the preservation of precious budget dollars would be another factor that might have suggested a later start time. Just curious - unless someone has direct knowledge of this situation.
Kenyon goes the night before, and I'm sure OWu does, and DPU and Wab reciprocate.
Anything over 3 hours and a team will go the night before on the weekend
OWU and Wabash played each other in futbol and football today. I assume they came out together the night before.
This past weekend was weird for the OAC.
JCU tops ONU 2-1 in OT, which is a great win for the Streaks. ONU has always been their kryptonite. The last 3 meetings before this were ties (2 OAC finals and 2016 regular season game). JCU now can make its own destiny as far as the regular season championship goes.
Heidelberg his hit the wall, and may suddenly be irrelevant. Lost 4-0 to ONU and lost 3-0 to Otterbein last week, Wow! I am stunned. Now it looks as if the OAC only has 1 pool C candidate, JCU. Everyone else is looking for an Automatic bid.
Otterbein is throwing together a strong conference performance. JCU goes to Otterbein Tuesday, and we will see if they are the real deal.
Massey rankings - week ahead:
| Team | Conference | Record | Δ | Rat | SoS | SSF | Week Ahead |
| John Carroll | Ohio AC | 12-1-1 | 0.89286 | 2 | 8 | 15 | 17 | @Otterbein, @Capital |
| Carnegie Mellon | University AA | 9-3-1 | 0.73077 | -1 | 20 | 4 | 6 | LaRoche, |
| Otterbein | Ohio AC | 11-2 | 0.84615 | 16 | 25 | 77 | 51 | JCU, Baldwin Wallace |
| Kenyon | North Coast AC | 10-2-2 | 0.78571 | 28 | 37 | 36 | @OWU, DePauw |
| Ohio Wesleyan | North Coast AC | 8-5-1 | 0.60714 | 5 | 45 | 19 | 27 | Kenyon, Hiram |
| Transylvania | Heartland CAC | 11-1 | 0.91667 | -14 | 48 | 212 | 254 | Franklin, @Anderson |
| Capital | Ohio AC | 9-5 | 0.64286 | -2 | 49 | 36 | 28 | Marietta, JCU |
| Heidelberg | Ohio AC | 9-2-1 | 0.79167 | -24 | 53 | 111 | 96 | @BW, @Marietta |
| Ohio Northern | Ohio AC | 9-5-1 | 0.63333 | 18 | 54 | 38 | 52 | Wilmington, @Muskingum |
| Thomas More | Presidents' AC | 9-4-1 | 0.67857 | 1 | 57 | 67 | 93 | Geneva, @Bethany |
| Case Western | University AA | 5-7-2 | 0.42857 | -20 | 73 | 2 | 1 | North Park |
| Geneva | Presidents' AC | 10-2-2 | 0.78571 | 11 | 76 | 187 | 206 | @TM, Thiel |
| Denison | North Coast AC | 6-6-1 | 0.5 | 21 | 84 | 17 | 30 | @Wabash, Wooster |
| PSU-Behrend | Allegheny Mtn | 11-4 | 0.73333 | 6 | 85 | 179 | 188 | @Pitt-Bradford, LaRoche |
| Marietta | Ohio AC | 9-4-1 | 0.67857 | -9 | 93 | 134 | 78 | @Capital, Berg |
Great match-ups this week for most of the conference contenders - unfortunately many at the same time - can't catch them all.
- NCAC: OWU vs Kenyon - as usual this game will decide the conference champ. Right behind them a resurgent Denison vs Wabash - current 3-4 place holders. These are, most likely, the 4 teams that make the post season tourney.
- OAC: another 1 vs 2 showdown with JCU visiting Otterbein. The two stingiest defenses in the conference - Otterbein conceding only 3 goals during this 9 game winning streak. The size of JCU is considerable, especially at midfield. The next 4 coming off losses - no shame for ONU losing at JCU but the other three need to look in the mirror and ask themselves the hard question: Do you have what it takes to finish the season on a positive streak? All four of these teams have earned the Box of Chocolates status for the week.
- PRaC: the third 1 vs 2 match-up of the week. TM is the team to beat, winners of 5 straight and with double-revenge, losing twice at Geneva last year, including the conference playoff final 1 minute into OT. I think TM makes a statement in this game - and then must avoid a hangover traveling to Bethany on the weekend.
- HCAC: Transy falls from the ranks of the unbeaten - I thought 4 straight road games was going to be tough - the hangover game after Hanover is what got them. Interestingly that loss creates a 3-way tie for first. Transy has 3 of the last 4 against the lower half of the conference with one potentially tricky away game at 4th place Anderson. Anderson's record against winning teams is very poor - I expect they'll finish 4-0.
- UAA: CMU gets a nice victory at Wash U; Case plays tough in both games - taking Chicago to OT. The CMU result just might have nailed Wash U coffin closed. CMU with a very weak non-conference game this week and then 9 days off to play the 3rd and 4th UAA ranked teams, at home. If they win those two and win vs Case I think they're hosting the first round of the NCAA's as they did last year.
The first of the Regional Rankings comes out Wednesday. For the most part the rankings aren't going to be a shock to most teams except those with weak SoS. We saw last year what happened to Kenyon in the first rankings - first place in the coach's poll and 7th, I believe, in the first regional. If past form holds true the top 8 teams, ranked, could be JCU, CMU, Kenyon, OWU,TM, Otterbein - and then Capital, ONU Dension - you pick. I would not be surprised if Otterbein falls lower than 6th. Transy may make the top 8 - history says they won't. I don't believe Tuesday's results will impact the rankings - please let me know if this is not correct.
Looks like JCU has moved up to 7 and 9 on D3soccer and Coaches poll respectively. Kenyon ranked 20 and 22, respectively.
The coaches poll has 3 oac teams for what must be the first time in a decade, which may play real well for the OAC in regional rankings.
While the d3 soccer poll has CMU ranked, the coaches poll has Heidelberg and Otterbien, with CMU only RV.
Maybe I spoke too soon regarding a second OAC bid should JCU lose in the OAC final.
In today's games, Denison got a last minute goal in regular time at Wabash to tie it at 3, as they head into OT.
Quote from: midwest on October 17, 2017, 06:05:56 PM
In today's games, Denison got a last minute goal in regular time at Wabash to tie it at 3, as they head into OT.
I saw the score at 3-1 and turned it off!
https://boxcast.tv/view/msoc-vs-john-carroll-197028
JCU @ Otterbein link
At 10-2-2 where will Kenyon be regionally ranked tomorrow? They have a win v CMU to open the season and a decent win v Case and a big win v Otterbein who are in 1st place in their conference. Their NCAC conference only has 2 other teams above .500. That is a ton of wins v sub .500 teams. I am guessing they will be ranked #4 or #5 but what will their record be v ranked opponents? Case will not be ranked. So Otterbein and CMU will be which is 2 wins. JCU will be so that is 1 loss. Thomas More will not be ranked. Will OWU at 8-5-2 get the #8 ranking? Probably not and even if they did a loss to Kenyon would knock them right out. I have not seen Kenyon play this year and have only seen OWU once at John Carroll and in that game they were horrific defensively. Will be an interesting game...
For you Midwest fans should I be watching the JCU v Otterbein game or the OWU v Kenyon game?
Denison-Wabash final score after OT, 3-3.
What a strike by OWU #9..1-0 OWU about 15 min in..They have come out FIRED up in this game...and as I am typing they go up 2-0 on a series of mistakes by Kenyon...WOW...one complete flat giveaway and one WHIFF and OWU looks like an NCAA team in this game.Kenyon looks flat and uninterested and the scoreboard is proof
Actually Kenyon is up 2-0.
Well they were. Of course I posted and now 2-1.
Good game...Kenyon gets back into it with a nice strike just outside the box by #8 off a defensive giveaway that I saw a ton in the JCU game I watched earlier this year...
Kenyon had shout for a PK to go up 3-0 and now 2-1 Kenyon.
Oh crap so the Home team is not in white? ...Well then reverse everything I said..Kenyon came out pumped up..LOL...The 1st strike was insane by #9 for whatever team he plays for
Very wide open game..Fun to watch..Tons of drama and emotion..You can tell a rivalry game
Does OWU have injuries? This OWU side seems to be lacking a bit in the talent they usually have. they also look to be lacking some fight. They are having a tough time creating dangerous scoring chances. Kenyon seems to be in control with about 25 minutes left and you would never know this was a one goal game
3-1 Kenyon on a fantastic header..Kid has some ups...defending was poor..Really disappointed in this OWU side tonight...If they do not have the talent at least match Kenyon's workrate and intensity. I do not see any fight as its like all 11 OWU players are playing with their heads down. I will say Kenyon's workrate is very impressive..
JCU was up 1-0 on Otterbein, Bein got a red. Jesse Marinaro, JCU's best player goes down with an injury and Bein ties it 1-1. 73rd minute right now.
If you watch the replay the kenyon goalscorer makes a very cagey run to the middle of the box and the OWU defender totally loses him.
Quote from: bestfancle on October 17, 2017, 08:42:18 PM
JCU was up 1-0 on Otterbein, Bein got a red. Jesse Marinaro, JCU's best player goes down with an injury and Bein ties it 1-1. 73rd minute right now.
Seems like a more intense game..Will tune in..
JCU at Otterbein heading to OT 1-1...
Slight homer in me, but it really sucks to see JCU lose like that. Red for Otterbein doesn't do it justice, taking out the best player on the team for an extended period of time. Just a dirty play.
Lombardo's red for jcu later in the game will really hurt them. That's his 2nd red on the year so I think he misses more than just one game.
JCU should still be a lock, but they can't afford one more loss in conference outside of the confrence final.
I am often harsh on my Lords but Kenyon put in a splendid performance tonight. This one won't be as remembered as perhaps some others in the past few years but this was a huge, signature win for Coach Brown. 4 wins in a row now versus OWU and I'd guess that hasn't been done by any team over the past 35 years, ever. You could tell Brown and Coach Moore were fired up. Still wish they generated more clean chances with all of that effort. That said, the effort and work rate were outstanding. Reminded me of when Kenyon demolished Trinity (TX) in the Sweet 16 last year 4-0 and perhaps used up a little too much energy before going toe to toe with Tufts for 109 minutes the next day. This version is not as good as last year's, but at least tonight their effort and heart cannot be faulted. Congrats to Coach Brown and his squad.
P.S. I also was happy to see that Kenyon had zero celebration or histrionics after the game.
Quote from: bestfancle on October 17, 2017, 09:14:59 PM
Slight homer in me, but it really sucks to see JCU lose like that. Red for Otterbein doesn't do it justice, taking out the best player on the team for an extended period of time. Just a dirty play.
Lombardo's red for jcu later in the game will really hurt them. That's his 2nd red on the year so I think he misses more than just one game.
JCU should still be a lock, but they can't afford one more loss in conference outside of the confrence final.
Yea that was wild...You have to admit that was a HUGE win for Otterbein...I mean I do not remember hearing about Otterbein since they made a surprise appearance up at SLU in the 2002 Final 4.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 17, 2017, 09:16:32 PM
I am often harsh on my Lords but Kenyon put in a splendid performance tonight. This one won't be as remembered as perhaps some others in the past few years but this was a huge, signature win for Coach Brown. 4 wins in a row now versus OWU and I'd guess that hasn't been done by any team over the past 35 years, ever. You could tell Brown and Coach Moore were fired up. Still wish they generated more clean chances with all of that effort. That said, the effort and work rate were outstanding. Reminded me of when Kenyon demolished Trinity (TX) in the Sweet 16 last year 4-0 and perhaps used up a little too much energy before going toe to toe with Tufts for 109 minutes the next day. This version is not as good as last year's, but at least tonight their effort and heart cannot be faulted. Congrats to Coach Brown and his squad.
P.S. I also was happy to see that Kenyon had zero celebration or histrionics after the game.
Messiah plays OWU only rarely, but they are 3-0 all time vs the Bishops.
Quote from: Falconer on October 17, 2017, 10:44:48 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 17, 2017, 09:16:32 PM
I am often harsh on my Lords but Kenyon put in a splendid performance tonight. This one won't be as remembered as perhaps some others in the past few years but this was a huge, signature win for Coach Brown. 4 wins in a row now versus OWU and I'd guess that hasn't been done by any team over the past 35 years, ever. You could tell Brown and Coach Moore were fired up. Still wish they generated more clean chances with all of that effort. That said, the effort and work rate were outstanding. Reminded me of when Kenyon demolished Trinity (TX) in the Sweet 16 last year 4-0 and perhaps used up a little too much energy before going toe to toe with Tufts for 109 minutes the next day. This version is not as good as last year's, but at least tonight their effort and heart cannot be faulted. Congrats to Coach Brown and his squad.
P.S. I also was happy to see that Kenyon had zero celebration or histrionics after the game.
Messiah plays OWU only rarely, but they are 3-0 all time vs the Bishops.
LOL. I heard somewhere that there was a team in Grantham, PA that is pretty decent. For Kenyon the last time they won 3 regular season games in a row vs OWU was 1954-1956...a few years before this 57 year old was born.
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 09:23:20 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on October 17, 2017, 09:14:59 PM
Slight homer in me, but it really sucks to see JCU lose like that. Red for Otterbein doesn't do it justice, taking out the best player on the team for an extended period of time. Just a dirty play.
Lombardo's red for jcu later in the game will really hurt them. That's his 2nd red on the year so I think he misses more than just one game.
JCU should still be a lock, but they can't afford one more loss in conference outside of the confrence final.
Yea that was wild...You have to admit that was a HUGE win for Otterbein...I mean I do not remember hearing about Otterbein since they made a surprise appearance up at SLU in the 2002 Final 4.
The Otterbein team in 2002 had an AA defender (Mike Lochner), and I think he was the guy whose throw-ins were their single most dangerous weapon--and (if memory serves) the main reason they defeated Trinity in the semi-final. One of his almost indefensible mega-throws led directly to their second goal in a 3-2 win. It was a great Trinity side (that game was their only loss) led by Josh Card, who is still today by far the all-time goal scorer for Trinity. That Otterbein team won by imitating a boa constrictor. They shut you down and slowly squeezed you to death, with the coup de gras often taking the form of a Lechner throw-in.
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 08:36:38 PM
Does OWU have injuries? This OWU side seems to be lacking a bit in the talent they usually have. they also look to be lacking some fight. They are having a tough time creating dangerous scoring chances. Kenyon seems to be in control with about 25 minutes left and you would never know this was a one goal game
Correct on both fronts. OWU down four starters for the season, including two of the three seniors on defense out with concussions since the start of the season. Last year's NCAC freshman of the year has been hurt for much of the season but was back last night. May have lost another starter towards the end of last night's game. Also out at least one contributing sub for the season. So yes, injuries have been a huge problem.
OWU's other problem is youth. Not that being young is an excuse, but only three upper classmen (two juniors, one senior) play substantial minutes. And the younger guys have not stepped up when physical teams have put OWU under pressure. This game was one example, but St. Thomas did what Kenyon did and then some. Too many OWU players looked scared to be in that game last night.
The frustrating part is that OWU shows flashes. John Carroll controlled most of that game, but OWU turned it on for 30 minutes and went from 3-1 down to 4-3 up and were flying. Kenyon dominated the first 30 minutes, then OWU woke up for 15 and should have been at least 2-2. But then they slow back down, and good teams exploit it.
OWU is probably a year away from being able to consistently beat top teams. They've competed with them this year, but haven't gotten over the hump. I'd give them a puncher's chance in a rematch with Kenyon, just because they gave up a wonder goal and a stupid goal in the first half and you can avoid both of those. But some guys will need to elevate their play.
As for Kenyon, they know what they do and they do it very well. Carmona and Myers were the best two players on the field. As PN said, they're not the Kenyon of the last couple years. They're lacking some invention/a gamebreaker in the final third, and you can cause serious problems in the back (see, Heidelberg). But they don't necessarily have to be as good to do serious damage. 2016 Tufts was not even close to 2014 Tufts, and they won the title.
Brown's best teams suffocate you in the midfield. This version is capable of doing that to good teams. And that gives Kenyon a chance against anyone, because they'll be able to hang in any game. If the defense tightens up some they could go pretty deep. Less margin for error than in year's past, but you need a little luck to make the Final Four anyway.
Also, if Kenyon can win out to the NCAC final, I think they'll have a shot at a Pool C. We'll know better when the first set of rankings come out today.
1) Posting is easier following a good win as opposed to a bitter loss that leaves one with a stomach-churning sick feeling.
2) Interesting to see Mr.Right comment on the obvious intensity of a rivalry game. I personally cannot stand rivalry games that I have a stake in. Perhaps I am too old and/or I should not care so much that I feel cardiovascularly threatened. The feeling I had clutching and digging into my father's thigh at the Spectrum in Philly when UK was 2.1 seconds away from a monumentally, historic victory and Laettner hit the shot in the greatest college basketball game ever played was the same feeling I felt after Kenyon lost to OWU in 2014, and for days afterwards, and that I can still conjure up on any random drive to work on any morning up to the present. I dread rivalry games where I have a personal interest of religious intensity.
3) The classic rivalry games/matches, and the ones that cause dread, typically are built on some combination of respect and bad blood. The respect part at least in part includes an appreciation that there is a very good chance your team will lose. Anytime Kenyon plays OWU I am always convinced Kenyon will lose. The Lords could win the next 10 straight and I'd still be convinced that #11 would result in a loss. Conversely, one clear sign of Kenyon "arriving," so to speak, is knowing that an OWU fan knows they could lose, and not just in the usual sense of the "any given day" theme. I'm talking about when you are actually afraid your team may lose, when losing feels like a very real and visceral risk. The "bad blood" sort of speaks for itself. There is sort of a baseline bad blood, which, let's say in terms of a ratio with respect runs about 55/45 or 60/40 in general, and for the months into the offseason. Then there is the acute phase bad blood, in the build up to game day and immediately after, when the ratio ratchets up to 80/20 or 90/10 in terms of bad blood/respect. I grew up 30 minutes from Duke and UNC. I mostly have been spared from the angst of that rivalry because I was raised a UK fan, but I witnessed what happens. Two very smart, very rational, and even very nice people can literally go insane when they are in the heat of a rivalry thing. I'm talking about the kind of intensity and bad blood where you almost (and maybe not even almost) want the other team to lose more than you want your team to win. In D3 soccer, Williams-Amherst and Messiah-E'town are other examples that come to mind.
4) Being a fanatical partisan runs deep and often contains some unaccounted for element in terms of just why the intensity is so high. I'm not a Kenyon alum. I went to Davidson in a very close call over W&L back in the day, mostly because I was a mid-major D1 tennis player, and for better weather. Davidson is always "ranked" higher than Kenyon. Most who know of such things would consider Davidson to be a slightly to somewhat "better" school. I nevertheless wish I had gone to Kenyon instead. I am convinced I would have been happier there. It's sort of like unexplainable attractions. If presented with a line-up of 10 very attractive women, any of us might pick one that isn't necessarily the most "objectively" attractive but most attractive to us (and that can be almost impossible to describe or explain). At any rate, I wouldn't run through a wall for a particular coach as some might for their alma maters but I would gladly run through a wall for Kenyon, the school. As an aside, and this is a gripe, the school, administrators and coaches should feed and foster anything that could possibly contribute to the growth, positive vibe, and sense of family among parents, alums, current participants, etc. THAT IS VITAL and the best programs are good at that.
5) Being a partisan who cares deeply often results in what I will call creative accounting. Essentially, in the extreme, that involves what you think could have or should have happened...like discounting all the plays in the opponent's favor, including the ones when they didn't score but could have, and then counting all of your team's plus the ones you think could have resulted in scores. I think last night's first half should have ended 4-0. RH thinks 2-2. Notice 'should' versus 'could.' I can concede the half could have ended 2-2 but I'd never agree that should have happened. In the nightmare game of 2014, I admitted at the time and admit now that OWU dominated on the day. That said, the Lords had the first clear scoring chance (as I recall of course!), clanged the post and then barely missed wide. If Kenyon scores there who knows how that might have changed the whole dynamic. They didn't. A minute later OWU is awarded what from a partisan point of view seemed like a soft PK in a huge, high stakes game. OWU scores again just before the half. 2-0 and a mountain to climb against a very good team that has been given a full dose of confidence and belief. I of course remember all the chances Kenyon had to score in the 2nd half to get even, like a phenomenal GK save of an Amolo free kick around the 53rd minutes. I of course don't recall any chances in the 2nd half from OWU but I've been told they had a couple lol. Same with Tufts last year. I remember Kenyon dominating the 1st half, into a vicious wind. Even Shapiro admitted they were outplayed in that half. But the Lords didn't get one in. Tufts then probably outplayed Kenyon into the wind as well, and well, we know how that one ended in minute 109. And, btw, I have no doubts in my partisan brain that a healthy Kenyon would have beaten Tufts in 2014, and that a rematch with Messiah that year would have been a classic thriller. That's part of the beauty of being a fan....even in defeat I can still fantasize about what I think should have happened.
6) The 1st half of the Tufts game reminds me of my concern this year. Yes, Kenyon is not as good as the last 3 years, but they are still a threat. They have those 3-4 years in their collective consciousness. They don't go into games expecting to lose to anybody. The risk is that when you expend that much energy, and don't score as a result, then you press even harder to get one, get more and more extended, and more and more exposed to counters. Not to mention that you're exhausted. And there's a natural deflation factor as well. You've dominated or at least had the better of play but are level or even down a goal. That's deflating...and you really don't have any room left to "play even harder." Good runs in tourneys involve the effort yielding fruit, and having a bit of luck on your side.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on October 18, 2017, 07:50:12 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 17, 2017, 08:36:38 PM
Does OWU have injuries? This OWU side seems to be lacking a bit in the talent they usually have. they also look to be lacking some fight. They are having a tough time creating dangerous scoring chances. Kenyon seems to be in control with about 25 minutes left and you would never know this was a one goal game
Correct on both fronts. OWU down four starters for the season, including two of the three seniors on defense out with concussions since the start of the season. Last year's NCAC freshman of the year has been hurt for much of the season but was back last night. May have lost another starter towards the end of last night's game. Also out at least one contributing sub for the season. So yes, injuries have been a huge problem.
OWU's other problem is youth. Not that being young is an excuse, but only three upper classmen (two juniors, one senior) play substantial minutes. And the younger guys have not stepped up when physical teams have put OWU under pressure. This game was one example, but St. Thomas did what Kenyon did and then some. Too many OWU players looked scared to be in that game last night.
The frustrating part is that OWU shows flashes. John Carroll controlled most of that game, but OWU turned it on for 30 minutes and went from 3-1 down to 4-3 up and were flying. Kenyon dominated the first 30 minutes, then OWU woke up for 15 and should have been at least 2-2. But then they slow back down, and good teams exploit it.
OWU is probably a year away from being able to consistently beat top teams. They've competed with them this year, but haven't gotten over the hump. I'd give them a puncher's chance in a rematch with Kenyon, just because they gave up a wonder goal and a stupid goal in the first half and you can avoid both of those. But some guys will need to elevate their play.
As for Kenyon, they know what they do and they do it very well. Carmona and Myers were the best two players on the field. As PN said, they're not the Kenyon of the last couple years. They're lacking some invention/a gamebreaker in the final third, and you can cause serious problems in the back (see, Heidelberg). But they don't necessarily have to be as good to do serious damage. 2016 Tufts was not even close to 2014 Tufts, and they won the title.
Brown's best teams suffocate you in the midfield. This version is capable of doing that to good teams. And that gives Kenyon a chance against anyone, because they'll be able to hang in any game. If the defense tightens up some they could go pretty deep. Less margin for error than in year's past, but you need a little luck to make the Final Four anyway.
Also, if Kenyon can win out to the NCAC final, I think they'll have a shot at a Pool C. We'll know better when the first set of rankings come out today.
Well that makes sense now as OWU looked much weaker than I have ever seen them in Martin's tenure last night. I thought to myself this is a team that must have significant injuries. I did not realize they were that young though. It is not an excuse like you said but they looked like they were missing of any field leadership last night. No one pumping the guys up, telling them not to hang their heads and reassuring them even down 2-0 there is plenty of time left in the game. I saw NONE of that on the stream and most concerning I saw a total lack of FIGHT. I also agree with you that when your team shows flashes or as a team that plays hard for 70 minutes can be more frustrating than watching a bad team. It can frustrate you as a fan because you know that if the player could dig deep they could play hard for 90 or their "flashes" turn into consistent solid performances. Young teams do this quite often and eventually will gel as you say in a year or 2. It does seem that the conference based on the standings is down in general so they may get that 2nd chance in a couple weeks on Kenyon's field. Still a ways away BUT if they do get that 2nd chance they might just be able to catch Kenyon a tad over confident going into the game(only natural) and might surprise. Will be something to watch for.
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 16, 2017, 01:09:09 PM
The first of the Regional Rankings comes out Wednesday. For the most part the rankings aren't going to be a shock to most teams except those with weak SoS. We saw last year what happened to Kenyon in the first rankings - first place in the coach's poll and 7th, I believe, in the first regional. If past form holds true the top 8 teams, ranked, could be JCU, CMU, Kenyon, OWU,TM, Otterbein - and then Capital, ONU Dension - you pick. I would not be surprised if Otterbein falls lower than 6th. Transy may make the top 8 - history says they won't. I don't believe Tuesday's results will impact the rankings - please let me know if this is not correct.
Regional rankings do not include yesterday's games. Surprised Berg is as high as they are - same for OWU's omission. OAC teams have good Pool C chances - JCU and Otterbein in the best positions as of these rankings. Bein has a real chance to go undefeated - their last two away games will be tricky. Capital has JCU and Berg coming up - which will give them 5 games against the top 8 regional competitors. They'd have to win out and win at least two tourney games to get Pool C consideration IMO.
As I stated Transy's poor SoS (.494) leaves them no room for faltering - it's AQ or bust for them.
1 John Carroll 12-1-1 12-1-1
2 Kenyon 10-2-2 10-2-2
3 Carnegie Mellon 9-3-1 9-3-1
4 Otterbein 11-2-0 11-2-0
5 Heidelberg 9-2-1 9-2-1
6 Thomas More 9-4-1 9-4-1
7 Capital 9-5-0 9-5-0
8 Ohio Northern 9-5-1 9-5-1
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 18, 2017, 05:33:08 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 16, 2017, 01:09:09 PM
The first of the Regional Rankings comes out Wednesday. For the most part the rankings aren't going to be a shock to most teams except those with weak SoS. We saw last year what happened to Kenyon in the first rankings - first place in the coach's poll and 7th, I believe, in the first regional. If past form holds true the top 8 teams, ranked, could be JCU, CMU, Kenyon, OWU,TM, Otterbein - and then Capital, ONU Dension - you pick. I would not be surprised if Otterbein falls lower than 6th. Transy may make the top 8 - history says they won't. I don't believe Tuesday's results will impact the rankings - please let me know if this is not correct.
Regional rankings do not include yesterday's games. Surprised Berg is as high as they are - same for OWU's omission. OAC teams have good Pool C chances - JCU and Otterbein in the best positions as of these rankings. Bein has a real chance to go undefeated - their last two away games will be tricky. Capital has JCU and Berg coming up - which will give them 5 games against the top 8 regional competitors. They'd have to win out and win at least two tourney games to get Pool C consideration IMO.
As I stated Transy's poor SoS (.494) leaves them no room for faltering - it's AQ or bust for them.
1 John Carroll 12-1-1 12-1-1
2 Kenyon 10-2-2 10-2-2
3 Carnegie Mellon 9-3-1 9-3-1
4 Otterbein 11-2-0 11-2-0
5 Heidelberg 9-2-1 9-2-1
6 Thomas More 9-4-1 9-4-1
7 Capital 9-5-0 9-5-0
8 Ohio Northern 9-5-1 9-5-1
I think JCU keeps that #1 spot, even with the loss to Otterbein, but I'm not sure. I think you're right that Bein and JCU could get Pool C bids. JCU needs to win out (to the OAC Championship game) to ensure a Pool C bid. Otterbien is similar, but I think they need to win the OAC Championship.
At .621, John Carroll's SOS is very high. So they have significantly more room for error than Otterbein and Heidelberg. Not sure they need to reach OAC title game to be safe. We'll have to see how results vs. ranked teams shapes up in the next couple weeks. For sure Kenyon and Carnegie Mellon will be ranked throughout, so there's a win and a tie versus ranked teams that they can count on. Otterbein probably stayed ranked as well, so that's a loss they'll probably be stuck with.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 18, 2017, 12:48:03 PM
I think last night's first half should have ended 4-0. RH thinks 2-2. Notice 'should' versus 'could.' I can concede the half could have ended 2-2 but I'd never agree that should have happened.
To clarify, I think 2-1 was a fair score on the balance of play for the first half. Kenyon dominated the first 30, OWU dominated the last 15. My comment on "should have been 2-2" pointed to the stretch where it was 2-1 and OWU missed a 1v1 with the keeper and had a free header saved off the goal line. Setting aside what had come before that, OWU
should have made it 2-2 in that stretch, even if that would have flattered the team based on how terrible they were in the first 30.
Quote from: Ryan Harmanis on October 19, 2017, 07:41:44 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 18, 2017, 12:48:03 PM
I think last night's first half should have ended 4-0. RH thinks 2-2. Notice 'should' versus 'could.' I can concede the half could have ended 2-2 but I'd never agree that should have happened.
To clarify, I think 2-1 was a fair score on the balance of play for the first half. Kenyon dominated the first 30, OWU dominated the last 15. My comment on "should have been 2-2" pointed to the stretch where it was 2-1 and OWU missed a 1v1 with the keeper and had a free header saved off the goal line. Setting aside what had come before that, OWU should have made it 2-2 in that stretch, even if that would have flattered the team based on how terrible they were in the first 30.
Right, I understood that was your reasoning in the individual instance. I was attempting to offer some more macro observations about how we as fans/partisans choose to parse, perceive and recall in different ways. My major point is that I believe all of us frequently freeze some events as static and then allow others to be more dynamic...like your goals counted, and your team's that should have happened ('your' in the larger sense)....while the other team's goals (in this case the "wonder goal" [read: a bit of luck but not something that one would take away if it's 'your' team's wonder goal] and a goal off an unforced error) can be erased in a way and any good chances that happened for other team in those said 15 minutes aren't calculated. I didn't see it but my understanding was that the OWU goal came off a Kenyon unforced error as well. Just saying the instinct is to "count" what's in our favor and not so much with the other side. Also cannot assume what would have happened had those unforced errors not taken place. Maybe a team still would have scored. I tried to include examples of myself doing what I was talking about to bolster the idea that I was attempting to describe a larger dynamic phenomenon that happens with fans and was not making any kind of more personal statement or saying anything that only applied to one particular game analysis.
BTW, I would disagree with the idea of a "puncher's chance." Any recent OWU-Kenyon game in my view has had closer to 50/50 odds and certainly no more than 60-40 in either direction. There is not a doubt in my mind that OWU could beat Kenyon at Kenyon especially with a bid on the line.
JCU Plays at Capital today most likely missing their two best players. Lombardo got a red last game and Marinaro went off with a pretty bad nose injury last game (I can't imagine he will play today).
Here's the current OAC standings:
SCHOOL CONF OVERALL
OTTERBEIN 7-0 13-2
JOHN CARROLL 4-2 12-2-1
HEIDELBERG 3-2-1 10-2-1
MARIETTA 3-2-1 9-4-2
CAPITAL 3-2-1 9-5-1
MOUNT UNION 3-2-1 7-6-1
ONU 3-3 10-5-1
WILMINGTON 1-4-1 7-7-2
BW 1-5-1 5-10-2
MUSKINGUM 0-6 2-12-1
Kenyon plays with fire yet again. Outshoots DePauw 24 to 6 but squeaks by 1-0 on a Lowry header. Koval missed a wide open net from 2 yards out. Today was senior day so that can sometimes drain some energy. Oberlin may still have an outside chance at a playoff spot but even if they don't they would love nothing better than to get a win at Kenyon after last year's last second defeats (twice), and Allegheny on the road to close the regular season could be a classic letdown game. All that said, 7-0 in the NCAC and on the verge of a third straight regular season title is pretty good.
GREAT LAKES REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 25, 2017
Rank
|
School | . Div. III .
Record | . Div. III .
SOS |
. R-v-R .
| . Non-Conf. .
SOS | . Overall .
Record | . Prev. .
Rank |
1. | John Carroll | 13-2-1 | 0.621 | 3-2-1 | 0.643 | 13-2-1 | 1 |
2. | Kenyon | 12-2-2 | 0.594 | 2-2-1 | 0.663 | 12-2-2 | 2 |
3. | Otterbein | 13-2-0 | 0.564 | 4-1-0 | 0.567 | 13-2-0 | 4 |
4. | Carnegie Mellon | 10-3-1 | 0.632 | 2-3-1 | 0.627 | 10-3-1 | 3 |
5. | Ohio Northern | 11-5-1 | 0.587 | 2-3-0 | 0.585 | 11-5-1 | 8 |
6. | Heidelberg | 10-3-1 | 0.551 | 2-2-0 | 0.521 | 10-3-1 | 5 |
7. | Thomas More | 10-4-2 | 0.579 | 1-1-1 | 0.619 | 10-4-2 | 6 |
8. | Capital | 9-6-1 | 0.594 | 2-4-0 | 0.601 | 9-6-1 | 7 |
I don't want to speak too soon, but I would guess that two OAC schools make it now with the slight chance at a third.
JCU should win its final game against Musky. They really handled Mount last night, which is huge and somewhat surprising. Otterbein has clinched the regular season championship, which gives them a bye in the first round of the OAC. Similarly, JCU clinches the 2 seed, and will also get a bye in the first round. I'd be nervous to see ONU if I was JCU, ONU is in that bubble that could maybe receive an at-large bid, although unlikely.
What is crazy is Heidelberg, which is a team I have admittedly been very high on is currently in the 7 spot, looking in. With losses to Marietta and Capital, their only hope is to end up in a tiebreaker with Mount Union for the 6th seed. That would require a Mount loss and a Heidelberg win on Saturday. If anyone knows what this tie-breaker is, besides H2H (they tied earlier this year), please let me know.
OAC STANDINGS:
OTTERBEIN 8-0 14-2
JOHN CARROLL 6-2 14-2-1
OHIO NORTHERN 5-3 12-5-1
MARIETTA 4-3-1 10-5-2
CAPITAL 4-3-1 10-6-1
MOUNT UNION 4-3-1 8-7-1
HEIDELBERG 3-4-1 10-4-1
WILMINGTON 2-5-1 8-8-2
BALDWIN WALLACE 1-6-1 5-11-2
MUSKINGUM 0-8 2-14-1
Here are all Saturdays games, there might be some movement in positions 3-7.
Sat. 28
Wilmington * Heidelberg 2:00 PM
Marietta * Ohio Northern 7:00 PM
Otterbein * Mount Union 7:00 PM
Muskingum * John Carroll 7:00 PM
Capital * Baldwin Wallace 7:00 PM
Heidelberg is higher in the regional rankings than in their conference standings!
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 26, 2017, 08:13:04 AM
Heidelberg is higher in the regional rankings than in their conference standings!
Exactly! Very, very odd, and I obviously have them behind ONU, so it looks like they have very low odds at an NCAA birth after such a promising start to the season. They basically need an OAC tournament championship.
The way I see it now:
JCU - Automatic bid, regardless of OAC results.
Otterbein - Automatic bid with OAC semi-final win and a loss to JCU in the OAC final.
ONU - Chance to receive bid through beating JCU in the OAC semi-final, and loss or win to Otterbein in the OAC final.
All other teams require an automatic bid though winning the OAC Championship.
There could be an extremely rare situation where ONU wins it all and Otterbein and JCU both get selected, which I would imagine would be the first time ever that the OAC had 3 NCAA tournament participants.
Well, in the midst of this very fine season for the OAC, gotta give a nod to Kenyon. Doesn't seem like too long ago that the Lords were languishing at 4-2-2 and just about left for dead (including by this writer). Now 9 games later they sit at 13-2-2 with a 3rd consecutive NCAC regular season crown, and yet again very much in the conversation for top squad in Great Lakes and quietly sneaking back into relevance on the national stage. Would be good to see them finish strong and win a 4th consecutive NCAC tourney. This might be one of Brown's best coaching efforts, as the Lords lack finishing firepower. The good news is that they still have substantial room for improvement, and they will have to be significantly sharper and more clinical in the final third if they have any hopes of a good NCAA run. They were pretty bad yesterday in the final third against Oberlin, with poor touches, missed chances in close, sloppy passing and giveaways, and skied balls 30 feet over the net from the 18. The Kenyon announcer who is also the asst SID was quite open about the sloppy play and what looked like lackadaisical engagement. Some of the starters look like they could use more anxiety about losing playing time to reserves breathing down their neck but this team isn't quite as deep as other recent editions. I also have concerns about Lowry holding up the back line with frosh alongside him, but he is so good and one of the most unheralded talents in D3.
Rain, sleet and or snow in Ohio today. Temps in the 30's. Several teams vying for tournament placing on Decision Day. Denison currently in 3rd plays OWU at home today. If they win the have the pleasure of playing OWU again next week at OWU.
OAC is wide open for places 3 through 6. Heidelberg in 7th still makes the field if certain outcomes occur. Capital could finish 3rd or 6th. Otterbein has to be careful on that HS pitch at Mt Union - prediction - at least one RC. Hopefully Otterbein maintains their cool because it will be challenged.
AMCC tourney gets underway with the Buffalo derby - kind of weird as Medaille plays some of their games on the D'Youville field. Would guess, given the weather, that's where they will play today.
PRaC still not settled - TM, Geneva and GC vying for placement - 3 teams with a chance at 4th.
Juicy schedule in the HCAC today as RH and Hanover go head to head for second place. Last year this game decided the league champ and AQ - Hanover beating RH and ending RH's slim NCAA hopes. Barring catastrophe against Earlham today Manchester takes 4th.
Interesting to see the impact of CMU's draw on not only their SOS but all the downstream teams.
Good luck to all, and may Ohio teams not suffer from CR's Rob Lowe or that creepy guy "Michael". Michael is over his head at U9 . . .
Tourney play this week will deal with interesting weather conditions on Tuesday and Wednesday. Tuesday 7pm game time temp forecast is low 30's. Wednesday's forecast calls for evening rain and temps in the low 40's
OAC First Round - Tue., Oct. 31
#6 Heidelberg at #3 Capital, 7:00 pm - repeat of last Wednesday's game. Heidelberg's SoCal players wore gloves and leggings in that game . . .
#5 Marietta at #4 Ohio Northern, 7:00 pm - repeat of Sat's 1-1 tie. Marietta's keeper stops a PK in Sat's game
NCAC Semifinals - Wed., Nov. 1
#4 Denison at #1 Kenyon, 2:00 pm - Kenyon in cruise mode since the NCAC season began. Boondock Derby part 2
#3 Wabash at #2 Ohio Wesleyan, 7:00 pm - how does Wabash respond from their home loss to OWU? Two great goals from OWU to beat Denison on Sat in a very even game
AMCC Semifinals - Wed., Nov. 1
#4 Franciscan at #1 Penn State-Behrend, 2:00 pm - tight one first go-round - Franciscan's poor road record says they won't get a result
#3 Medaille at #2 Mount Aloysius, 12:00 pm - Medaille struggles with D'Youville on Sat needing OT to pull it out. These two played to a 4-3 OT result at Mt Aloy first time
HCAC Semifinals - Wed., Nov. 1
#4 Manchester at #1 Transylvania, 7:00 pm - so Transy plays he only team to beat them all year???? I expect a beat-down . . .
#3 Rose-Hulman at #2 Hanover, 2:00 pm - to be continued . . . Sat's 0-0 draw still begging for a goal. This time there will be a winner.
PRaC Semifinals - Wed., Nov. 1
#4 Washington and Jefferson at #1 Thomas More, 2:00 pm - 3-0 the first time - I expect the same this time.
#3 Grove City at #2 Geneva, 7:00 pm - the tied at GC in the regular season, they're tied in the standings. GC's losses to Otterbein, CMU, Buff St and TM - combined record of 51-11-8. Conference SoS is weak - but something to be said for their non-conference SoS.
In the OAC, I believe the winners will be Heidelberg in OT and ONU will beat Marietta by two goals.
This would send ONU back to JCU and 'Berg to Otterbein. Both are very hard match-ups!
The OAC proved to be the best Conference in the GL Region by a wide margin and will get 2-3 teams into the NCAA tourney
. JCU is still the favorite to win the League Tourney... Kenyon will most likely come out of the NCAC and will probably get a chance to improve on their mediocre record vs. OAC teams in 2017...
Quote from: TableMax on October 30, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
The OAC proved to be the best Conference in the GL Region by a wide margin and will get 2-3 teams into the NCAA tourney
. JCU is still the favorite to win the League Tourney... Kenyon will most likely come out of the NCAC and will probably get a chance to improve on their mediocre record vs. OAC teams in 2017...
I agree with the 2 to 3 bids. JCU should make it regardless, Otterbein will be in as long as they make it to the OAC final, and might even get in if they lose. Then if JCU and Otterbein lose, the OAC Champ gets an automatic bid.
I believe both Otterbein and JCU have a chance to host the first round of the NCAA tournament, if either of them with the Championship.
Quote from: TableMax on October 30, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
The OAC proved to be the best Conference in the GL Region by a wide margin and will get 2-3 teams into the NCAA tourney
. JCU is still the favorite to win the League Tourney... Kenyon will most likely come out of the NCAC and will probably get a chance to improve on their mediocre record vs. OAC teams in 2017...
LOL. No question Kenyon would have been bottom of the table in the OAC this season.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 30, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: TableMax on October 30, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
The OAC proved to be the best Conference in the GL Region by a wide margin and will get 2-3 teams into the NCAA tourney
. JCU is still the favorite to win the League Tourney... Kenyon will most likely come out of the NCAC and will probably get a chance to improve on their mediocre record vs. OAC teams in 2017...
LOL. No question Kenyon would have been bottom of the table in the OAC this season.
I know you're joking Paul, but say Kenyon is added to the OAC, and wins all its games against the teams it hasn't played, they finish in 3rd at 7-2-1, behind JCU (would be 8-2) and Otterbein (would be 9-1), and that is giving them the benefit of the doubt that they don't slip up against an ONU or Capital.
Quote from: bestfancle on October 30, 2017, 04:00:32 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 30, 2017, 02:11:07 PM
Quote from: TableMax on October 30, 2017, 01:23:23 PM
The OAC proved to be the best Conference in the GL Region by a wide margin and will get 2-3 teams into the NCAA tourney
. JCU is still the favorite to win the League Tourney... Kenyon will most likely come out of the NCAC and will probably get a chance to improve on their mediocre record vs. OAC teams in 2017...
LOL. No question Kenyon would have been bottom of the table in the OAC this season.
I know you're joking Paul, but say Kenyon is added to the OAC, and wins all its games against the teams it hasn't played, they finish in 3rd at 7-2-1, behind JCU (would be 8-2) and Otterbein (would be 9-1), and that is giving them the benefit of the doubt that they don't slip up against an ONU or Capital.
Bottom line? I'm very comfortable with how Kenyon stacks up vis-Ã -vis the OAC. So many ways to look at data, both real and imagined. The OAC had one go through the OAC undefeated. Kenyon beat them. JCU was the only OAC team that played Kenyon evenly.
Quote from: bestfancle on October 30, 2017, 10:00:14 AM
In the OAC, I believe the winners will be Heidelberg in OT and ONU will beat Marietta by two goals.
This would send ONU back to JCU and 'Berg to Otterbein. Both are very hard match-ups!
I think you're looking at ONU's history rather than at the team they are this year. Needed an 80th minute PK to get to OT at BW and then a second OT game at home vs Marietta their last two. They are still a rebuilding team at this point.
Marietta, like Otterbein, are senior-based teams. Otterbein obviously putting on a defensive clinic in OAC play - Marietta looking for more consistency. I posted earlier that ONU losing at home to OAC teams rarely happens, but their current form isn't great right now.
Since Berg's 9-0 start they are 2-4-1, conceding 16 goals in those 7 games, no wins against teams with a winning record. Pre conference - only played two teams with a winning record. Capital is very young and inconsistent, but they have played the 27th toughest schedule out of 414 teams. Haven't played well at home in OAC play - 1-2-1 - but I think they'll show up tomorrow.
Quote from: Domino1195 on October 30, 2017, 10:49:58 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on October 30, 2017, 10:00:14 AM
In the OAC, I believe the winners will be Heidelberg in OT and ONU will beat Marietta by two goals.
This would send ONU back to JCU and 'Berg to Otterbein. Both are very hard match-ups!
I think you’re looking at ONU’s history rather than at the team they are this year. Needed an 80th minute PK to get to OT at BW and then a second OT game at home vs Marietta their last two. They are still a rebuilding team at this point.
Marietta, like Otterbein, are senior-based teams. Otterbein obviously putting on a defensive clinic in OAC play - Marietta looking for more consistency. I posted earlier that ONU losing at home to OAC teams rarely happens, but their current form isn’t great right now.
Since Berg’s 9-0 start they are 2-4-1, conceding 16 goals in those 7 games, no wins against teams with a winning record. Pre conference - only played two teams with a winning record. Capital is very young and inconsistent, but they have played the 27th toughest schedule out of 414 teams. Haven’t played well at home in OAC play - 1-2-1 - but I think they’ll show up tomorrow.
Yeah, I agree I am looking at ONU somewhat historically, but I have also seen Ridenour be extremely keen with film. Year after year, each player on ONU knows the tenancies of their opponents in the OAC, leading to a lot of success. Still, if the talent isn't there, they won't win, I just think they will be extremely prepared, compared to Marietta who have lost in the Quarter-Finals in 2014, 2015, and a whopping 7-1 in the Semi-Final to JCU last year after winning the Quarter-Final in 2OT.
Berg is a confusing team, they only barely made the 6th seed. That being said, when I watched them against Kenyon and JCU earlier this year, they were able to properly manage the game, and I feel that they will get back to that point.
I guess its all up in the air, the magic of playoffs. ???
Nearing Halftime in both OAC games:
Heidelberg getting the better of Capital, except for maybe set pieces.
ONU and Marietta are more even, I'd give a slight edge to Marietta. ONU is "mucking" up the game, playing tough solid D.
Excuse me if I miss anything, I'm trying to watch both games. ONU/Etta has been more exciting.
Swing and a miss on my predictions...
Marietta wins 1-0, and Capital wins 2-0.
Marietta heads to Otterbein and Capital heads to JCU on Thursday.
Earlier this year Capital lost to JCU 2-0 at home, when JCU was missing its two best players (Injury and Red Card suspension). JCU should handle them.
Also, Marietta lost 3-0 to Otterbein only a week ago at their own place. Marietta might get killed at Otterbein all things considered.
NOTE: The originally posted table had SOS and RvR data that was from the previous week. It is now corrected.GREAT LAKES REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2017
Rank
|
School | . Div. III .
Record | . Div. III .
SOS |
. R-v-R .
| . Overall .
Record | . Prev. .
Rank |
1. | John Carroll | 15-2-1 | 0.592 | 3-2-1 | 15-2-1 | 1 |
2. | Otterbein | 15-2-0 | 0.560 | 4-1-0 | 15-2-0 | 3 |
3. | Kenyon | 14-2-2 | 0.572 | 2-2-1 | 14-2-2 | 2 |
4. | Carnegie Mellon | 10-3-3 | 0.636 | 2-3-3 | 10-3-3 | 4 |
5. | Thomas More | 12-4-2 | 0.567 | 1-1-1 | 12-4-2 | 7 |
6. | Capital | 11-6-1 | 0.586 | 3-4-0 | 11-6-1 | 8 |
7. | Ohio Northern | 12-5-2 | 0.574 | 2-3-0 | 12-5-2 | 5 |
8. | Heidelberg | 11-4-1 | 0.541 | 2-3-0 | 11-4-1 | 6 |
The switch with Otterbein and Kenyon this week makes ZERO sense, unless Otterbein filed a complaint and won. Same SOS and same RvR with both teams winning since last ranking. One could argue that Otterbein should have been higher to begin with, but there's no basis for a change that I can see. Also, since cmte apparently now considers 3rd and 4th ranking this might not matter, but Heidelberg dropping out after another loss and OWU moving in would take away a loss from Kenyon and give them another win, which of course would only matter if Kenyon picks up a loss or draw with OWU Saturday.
The switch with Otterbein and Kenyon this week makes ZERO sense, unless Otterbein filed a complaint and won. Same SOS and same RvR with both teams winning since last ranking. One could argue that Otterbein should have been higher to begin with, but there's no basis for a change that I can see. Also, since cmte apparently now considers 3rd and 4th ranking this might not matter, but Heidelberg dropping out after another loss and OWU moving in would take away a loss from Kenyon and give them another win, which of course would only matter if Kenyon picks up a loss or draw with OWU Saturday.
Apologies. We downloaded 6 of the 8 regions' data sheets before they had been updated for this week. That's why the SOS and RvR didn't change and the change in ranking doesn't make sense. Shortly the corrected data will be on the website.
Corrected . . .
GREAT LAKES REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2017
Rank
|
School | . Div. III .
Record | . Div. III .
SOS |
. R-v-R .
| . Overall .
Record | . Prev. .
Rank |
1. | John Carroll | 15-2-1 | 0.592 | 3-2-1 | 15-2-1 | 1 |
2. | Otterbein | 15-2-0 | 0.560 | 4-1-0 | 15-2-0 | 3 |
3. | Kenyon | 14-2-2 | 0.572 | 2-2-1 | 14-2-2 | 2 |
4. | Carnegie Mellon | 10-3-3 | 0.636 | 2-3-3 | 10-3-3 | 4 |
5. | Thomas More | 12-4-2 | 0.567 | 1-1-1 | 12-4-2 | 7 |
6. | Capital | 11-6-1 | 0.586 | 3-4-0 | 11-6-1 | 8 |
7. | Ohio Northern | 12-5-2 | 0.574 | 2-3-0 | 12-5-2 | 5 |
8. | Heidelberg | 11-4-1 | 0.541 | 2-3-0 | 11-4-1 | 6 |
So Kenyo'ns SOS fell, so the difference in SOS between Otterbein and Kenyon narrowed while Otterbein's RvR remained significantly better. Now the flip-flop makes some sense.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 01, 2017, 06:33:30 PM
So Kenyo'ns SOS fell, so the difference in SOS between Otterbein and Kenyon narrowed while Otterbein's RvR remained significantly better. Now the flip-flop makes some sense.
Thanks. Makes much more sense now, and no quarrels. Really tight with all of the top four. Still could flip again if Kenyon loses a loss with 4-1 head to head win. Good motivation for Kenyon to go ahead and get the AQ, although that's not gonna happen if they can't do better than 1-0 today with 34-4 shots advantage. I've also wondered if that last second -- as in 89:59 -- goal for JCU at CMU would end up being very costly to CMU.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 01, 2017, 06:27:07 PM
Corrected . . .
GREAT LAKES REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 01, 2017
Rank
|
School | . Div. III .
Record | . Div. III .
SOS |
. R-v-R .
| . Overall .
Record | . Prev. .
Rank |
1. | John Carroll | 15-2-1 | 0.592 | 3-2-1 | 15-2-1 | 1 |
2. | Otterbein | 15-2-0 | 0.560 | 4-1-0 | 15-2-0 | 3 |
3. | Kenyon | 14-2-2 | 0.572 | 2-2-1 | 14-2-2 | 2 |
4. | Carnegie Mellon | 10-3-3 | 0.636 | 2-3-3 | 10-3-3 | 4 |
5. | Thomas More | 12-4-2 | 0.567 | 1-1-1 | 12-4-2 | 7 |
6. | Capital | 11-6-1 | 0.586 | 3-4-0 | 11-6-1 | 8 |
7. | Ohio Northern | 12-5-2 | 0.574 | 2-3-0 | 12-5-2 | 5 |
8. | Heidelberg | 11-4-1 | 0.541 | 2-3-0 | 11-4-1 | 6 |
Yep, this is primed up for a MASSIVE OAC Final. Top two teams battling it out (barring a loss tomorrow by one of the teams). Both should make the NCAA, and I firmly believe they are playing for a set of Home Games in the NCAA tournament. I can't wait to head to Columbus for the game on Saturday.
Also, note a sour end for the Heidelberg team. That being said, they are a young team, with a great coach, and a lot of potential going forwards. Hopefully they can build on their success from early on this season, next year. There will be a big shift next year. Heidelberg and ONU should really improve, JCU and Marietta might fall a little bit.
Question for Y'all, if Heidelberg drops out of the Regional rankings (which I think they will), is this good or bad for JCU/Otterbein? If you remember, JCU (and Kenyon) lost to Heidelberg, while Otterbein beat them.
As Paul noted, Kenyon (and JCU) beat OWU, so if they move in, that will help both those teams by adding another ranked win?
Another year and another Kenyon Vs. OWU NCAC final. This is the fourth time in five years the two rivals have played in the conference final and if the previous finals are any indication then we are in for a treat:
2013: An excellent OWU team beats an upstart Kenyon team 3-1 — and it should not have been that close. But Kenyon showed their determination and made it a tough battle throughout.
2014: Back at OWU, Kenyon takes an early lead, OWU claws back with a dominant second-half and takes it to overtime. Kenyon comes out firing and Eudy scores a phenomenal goal in a period were OWU could hardly get a touch of the ball. OWU would get revenge in the NCAA tournament just two weeks later.
2015: Kenyon hosts for the first time and dominates all game. They miss a penalty but still cruise at 2-0 with 5 minutes. OWU emerge to put on a clinic on for the final two minutes and score twice before Glassman is taken down in the box and Barnes scores a penalty with 6 seconds left.
None of this is to mention last years OT game between Kenyon and Oberlin!
Prediction: Kenyon outplay the Battling Bishops but OWU keep it tight and nervy. 1-0 Kenyon final result
^^^^nice recap, except...OWU scored first in '14, and Kenyon tied it before the half ended off a corner.
I was at the game in '13...I think was tied at the half after Kenyon yet again conceded a very early goal (as they went on to do with Messiah as well), and yeah, the final score probably could have been worse. I believe they drew earlier in that season, and it was after the tourney loss that the Lords put themselves on the map beating Ohio Northern and Wheaton before the epic battle in Grantham on a frigid evening. OWU was I believe #1 in the country for much of that season. An OWU loss at home to Rose Hulman prevented a Sectional at OWU with Messiah, Kenyon and another upstart F&M.
You didn't mention a NCAC semi in 2012...Kenyon took OWU to PKs but could not advance. I was just reminiscing a few days ago about a certain lefty midfielder for Kenyon being in 1v1 on the OWU GK and missing on a sitter in the 99th minute that might have propelled Kenyon to an AQ in '12.
AMCC final is a repeat from last year - as is PRaC and NCAC. PSU-B hosts Medaille again and they are on quite a roll, winning 11 out of 12 - only loss to CMU 2-1 over these past 12 games. The last time Medaille beat PSU-B was 2013 - since then they have lost 7 straight, scoring only 1 goal in those 7 games. I don't think PSU'B's schedule allows them to lose the final and get in.
PRaC - Geneva pulls out a double OT win last night - watched bits and pieces. It was one of those games where you were going to feel for the loser - about as even a game as one could play. A minute before the OT winner GC left winger smashes a cheeky shot near post - almost caught the upper 90 - keeper knocks out for a corner. Geneva shots from outside the 18 - right wing - large angle - and the ball seemed to have eyes as it tucks inside the far post, curling away from the diving keeper. Last year at Geneva TM took the hosts to OT before losing. This year TM hosts. Geneva could be a possible bid-stealer but I don't see TM losing this game.
HCAC - speaking of evenly played games . . . Hanover scores at the death in regulation to cause OT but drops the decision on KFTM. Transy struggled all night against Manchester - I've seen Manchester several times this year and have described them as pesky - and that they are. RH loses last year in the conference final - they return to play host Transy. I feel this is potentially a real bid-stealer game. Transy's SoS of .459, 15-1 record and 1-0-0 RvR could cause the GL Committee heart burn if they lose, but we saw what this committee did to 17-4 JCU in 2014 because of JCU's SoS. If they are consistent Transy must win to get in.
NCAC - perhaps OWU should have minded the weather reports ??? ? Kenyon was smart enough to play at 2pm and avoid the awful conditions of the evening. PN has pulled his hair out over the nukmber of shots per game by Kenyon: they are 13th in the country with 20.44 shots per game, 368 total shots. Small consolation maybe but Rowan is #1 with 447 shots taken and Kenyon is 3rd in the GL behind Medaille and ONU. "Tried" to watch that OWU game - stuck with it in the second half. Wabash gives up two leads, the last one coming with less than 2 minutes in the second half. CR Tre' Gaither must wonder what he's done to the assignors as he seems to ref all the foul-weather games in Ohio. As was pointed out previously the NCAC final is the same as it ever was . . .
OAC semis tonight - rain is in the forecast for 7-8pm in the state - both games on turf - temps in the 60's. Bein and Marietta - senior based teams - score line doesn't tell the story of the first match-up. But honestly, Otterbein doesn't try to "win" the stat sheet battle - same for all defensive-oriented teams. They will concede possession and keep the sheet clean. Only three goals allowed in conference play. Having played recently these teams will have spent time reviewing game film - Marietta did a poor job preventing crosses from the flanks - they fix that and this game could go to OT. JCU's home field dominance is as strong as ONU- only three losses in the past 5 years. When Cap beat them two years ago their bus broke down a mile from the stadium and they walked, with the gear, the rest of the way. It may rain again as it did that night - I suggest they get off the bus and walk the last mile???
Looking ahead to potential final rankings: I ranked teams by SoS and then removed those with poor won-loss records. Below are the 10 candidates for the 8 spots. As was pointed out earlier - teams like OWU, ONU and Heidelberg staying or dropping out can have significant impact on RvR records. Capital's is 4-0 versus these teams and sits on the bubble for an NCAA spot. Of course they have their destiny in their hands and do not need to rely on committee decisions if they win this evening.
Institution |
In-Division
win-loss pct |
RvR |
In-Division SOS |
| Carnegie Mellon |
10-3-3
( 0.719) |
2-3-3
( 0.438) |
0.636 |
| John Carroll |
15-2-1
( 0.861) |
3-2-1
( 0.583) |
0.592 |
| Capital |
11-6-1
( 0.639) |
3-4-0
( 0.429) |
0.586 |
| Ohio Wesleyan |
11-6-1
( 0.639) |
1-6-0
( 0.143) |
0.576 |
| Ohio Northern |
12-5-2
( 0.684) |
2-3-0
( 0.400) |
0.574 |
| Kenyon |
14-2-2
( 0.833) |
2-2-1
( 0.500) |
0.572 |
| Thomas More |
12-4-2
( 0.722) |
1-1-1
( 0.500) |
0.567 |
| Otterbein |
15-2-0
( 0.882) |
4-1-0
( 0.800) |
0.56 |
| Heidelberg |
11-4-1
( 0.719) |
2-3-0
( 0.400) |
0.541 |
| Marietta |
10-5-3
( 0.639) |
1-2-3
( 0.417) |
0.536 |
Just sayin', 2pm Kenyon-Denison game time didn't avoid bad weather -- cold, steady rain, temps in low 40s.
Domino, I think you would agree that there is a difference between a good team that plays defensively and exploits the counter (and is willing to lose the shots "battle" 12 to 6 or 18 to 10) and a team just being really inferior to an opponent (and in my view, shot differentials like 25 to 5, 34 to 4, 24 to 8, etc fall into the latter category).
Tough pill for Wabash to swallow after being two minutes away from probably the biggest win in Wabash soccer history. You can tell from the coach's post-game comments that he was absolutely gutted and felt the Little Giants deserved the win. So close but so far away. When trying to take out a Goliath program, especially on Goliath's storied home pitch, you have to drive the stake all the way through.
I have a Messiah-Kenyon trivia question for Paul Newman (and yes, anyone else can take a guess). I've listed below the all-time Kenyon leaders in a particular statistic. Which one of those men has a brother who was an all-conference forward for Messiah?
Goals against avg (minimum 2000 minutes)
0.61 - James Smith (15 GA, 2207 min) - 2009-12
0.63 - Sam Clougher (57 GA, 8183 min) 2013-16
0.66 - Tyler Schatz (17 GA, 2319 min) - 2008-11
0.71 - Andy Kingston (16 GA, 2033 min) - 1992-94
0.72 - Chris Schilling (24 GA, 2997 min) - 1994-97
0.75 - Marshall Chapin (55 GA, 6630 min) - 1990-93
0.97 - Elliot Shay (24 GA, 2220 min) - 1994-97
0.99 - Jared Kunze (26 GA, 2362 min) - 2008-11
1.03 - Jamie White (46 GA, 4015 min) - 2006-09
1.04 - Charles Hansen (32 GA, 2779 min) - 1988-89
1.21 - Andrew Wellenbach (27 GA, 2015 min) - 1970-73
I saw the brothers play each other in the regular season. That's the only clue you should need. 8-)
Quote from: midwest on November 02, 2017, 09:01:00 AM
Just sayin', 2pm Kenyon-Denison game time didn't avoid bad weather -- cold, steady rain, temps in low 40s.
Missed that - was driving to Toledo and trying to watch . . . didn't look as miserable as the OWU game!
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 02, 2017, 09:56:18 AM
Domino, I think you would agree that there is a difference between a good team that plays defensively and exploits the counter (and is willing to lose the shots "battle" 12 to 6 or 18 to 10) and a team just being really inferior to an opponent (and in my view, shot differentials like 25 to 5, 34 to 4, 24 to 8, etc fall into the latter category).
Agreed. But stats are misleading in many ways. I don't know who counts shots at some games l've seen but "shots" from 25+ yards that sail over the goal by 10+ feet aren't shots. SOG should be the metric - and even then: how threatening were they chances?
I think no greater disparity in using stats exists with rankings - coach's poll vs regional rankings for example. There are some gaudy W-L records in the GL region, yet these teams aren't close to a .500 SoS.
Both OAC games tied 1-1 with about 10 left. I'm at the JCU game streaming the Otterbein one on my phone.
So Otterbein wins yesterday, 1 minute into overtime.
And JCU loses in penalties (although that game is recorded as a tie, I believe). They had a chance to win it in the 83rd minute that majority of college soccer players would score, a 1 on 1 with the Goalie from about 30 yards out. The goalie came out flying instead of cutting off the angle, all JCU's player had to do was hit it around the keeper and pass it in the net.
Does JCU still make the tournament, I am about 80% sure they will. Now if Capital beats Otterbein on Saturday, it may become an issue for the committee. Do I think JCU is good enough, sure, as long as their players show up. History says the OAC is a 1 or 2 bid region, and I don't know where the committee goes if both Otterbein and JCU are searching for At-Large bids.
If I am JCU, I am hoping for all the favorites to win their respective tournaments. If Kenyon and Otterbein eat up the AQ's, then JCU's chances are much much higher.
Quote from: bestfancle on November 03, 2017, 07:45:27 AM
So Otterbein wins yesterday, 1 minute into overtime.
And JCU loses in penalties (although that game is recorded as a tie, I believe). They had a chance to win it in the 83rd minute that majority of college soccer players would score, a 1 on 1 with the Goalie from about 30 yards out. The goalie came out flying instead of cutting off the angle, all JCU's player had to do was hit it around the keeper and pass it in the net.
Does JCU still make the tournament, I am about 80% sure they will. Now if Capital beats Otterbein on Saturday, it may become an issue for the committee. Do I think JCU is good enough, sure, as long as their players show up. History says the OAC is a 1 or 2 bid region, and I don't know where the committee goes if both Otterbein and JCU are searching for At-Large bids.
If I am JCU, I am hoping for all the favorites to win their respective tournaments. If Kenyon and Otterbein eat up the AQ's, then JCU's chances are much much higher.
JCU is a lock for the tourney. Follow the comments on the National thread as there are many seasoned vets chiming in on the Pool C discussion. Per Massey today JCU's schedule ranks 12th, Cap is 20 and Otterbein is 43. Cap still has work to do - especially if more top seeded teams fail to win their AQ. But in a "normal" year Cap's SOS and RvR would give them a solid chance.
After that we have to hope the last ranking includes the teams your team beat. For Cap - ONU, OWU and Berg have a huge impact if they stay ranked. I think Marietta's out of consideration - although they had a very good year. The bubble team is Berg - whether they finish 8th or lower. Transy and PSU-B's SOS won't be strong enough for them to move up even if they win on Sat.
You have to look at the OAC as this year's NCAC. They "always" get three bids. This year they could get one - but I think OWU is another Pool C bubble team. Their RvR is very poor so they need to win on Sat IMO.
Looks like the NCAC will only get one team in this year. Kenyon would be maybe 4th place this year in the OAC?? The committee has to see that. OAC clowned NCAC teams all year. Hope they do the right thing. BWAHAHAHA
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 03:09:41 PM
Looks like the NCAC will only get one team in this year. Kenyon would be maybe 4th place this year in the OAC?? The committee has to see that. OAC clowned NCAC teams all year. Hope they do the right thing. BWAHAHAHA
4th? Why so high, TableMax?
Now that Kenyon is done with a 15-2-3 overall record and 10-0-1 conference record, likely picking up a ranked win and draw from OWU likely getting ranked, and head to head wins over Otterbein and CMU, let me be the first to thank you for your contributions this season. Fine-grained, sophisticated stuff. I've grown from reading your work.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 04:17:10 PM
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Exactly. And if Kenyon's "facts" aren't good enough, then so be it. Meanwhile, I'll look forward to more of your superb analysis.
Fake news and recaps from 2012 won't be enough this season. 1-2-1 vs OAC teams this year should put Kenyon out for sure. Head to head OAC teams power clowned NCAC this year. The OAC GETS 3. And OWU will carry NCAC. Facts and results should matter.
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 04:28:48 PM
Fake news and recaps from 2012 won't be enough this season. 1-2-1 vs OAC teams this year should put Kenyon out for sure. Head to head OAC teams power clowned NCAC this year. The OAC GETS 3. And OWU will carry NCAC. Facts and results should matter.
LOL. I missed where a team's record versus the OAC made it into the NCAA selection criteria. Send me a link. And there I was imagining you might be an Oberlin grad.
Unfortunately it will matter this year as Kenyon kicked off 5 times this year vs OAC teams with garbage at best results. 1-2-1. We shall see. Good luck.
4 games. My bad.
Ba
Ba
BWAHAHAHA
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 04:28:48 PM
Fake news and recaps from 2012 won't be enough this season. 1-2-1 vs OAC teams this year should put Kenyon out for sure. Head to head OAC teams power clowned NCAC this year. The OAC GETS 3. And OWU will carry NCAC. Facts and results should matter.
You can't just call anything you don't like "fake news."
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 04:39:12 PM
Unfortunately it will matter this year as Kenyon kicked off 5 times this year vs OAC teams with garbage at best results. 1-2-1. We shall see. Good luck.
That math doesn't add up — 1+2+1 = 4, not 5.
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 04:40:44 PM
4 games. My bad.
Ba
Ba
BWAHAHAHA
Every time I read these ad hominem insults, I keep thinking of the the deliverance banjo riff.
I'm sure u were a big fan of that movie and banjo.
But joking aside. Look at the results.
MAGA. 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 04:17:10 PM
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Hey, Steven Wujczyk, the fact that you didn't hide your email from your public profile might be embarrassing now, huh? (For the record — I have no ties to Kenyon or the NCAC.) Normally I wouldn't out someone like that, but after reading your immature trash talk I don't care about your feelings or how stupid you look. Good luck to your son tomorrow.
Not really. U brought up the Banjo comment.
Good luck to u.
Hope the committee rewards results on the field.
A lot of pointless arguing about teams that will end up getting thrashed by a mid-atlantic or new england side if they make it that far in the NCAAs ;)
And Blooter only tough guys like u need to hide your identity.
Quote from: TableMax on November 04, 2017, 05:24:15 PM
And Blooter only tough guys like u need to hide your identity.
Lol
Just ignore this troll. Kenyon is a pool C lock. Don't know why anyone would logically think otherwise. However I do agree that the GL region is the weakest it's been in some time and I don't particularly like anyone's chances of winning it all out of that region. Any year that the OAC is getting more bids than the NCAC should speak volumes.
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 04, 2017, 05:10:37 PM
A lot of pointless arguing about teams that will end up getting thrashed by a mid-atlantic or new england side if they make it that far in the NCAAs ;)
PAclassic, beat Tufts, then get back to us ;)
I'm just curious when 15-2-3 and an 11 or 12 game unbeaten streak became a bad season. The Lords did have to replace one of the best classes in the school's history so a mediocre start was expected. I think they've done OK.
Otterbein wins it over Capital, 1-0. Capital came out really strong and bossed the first 20. Otterbein grew into it and got the goal right after half on a misplayed cross. Some real last-ditch defending from the hosts in the last 5, but they got over the line in the end.
Cap vs Bein - carbon copy of the first game. Otterbein scores a scrappy goal and protects the lead with a smothering defense. So many shots blocked by the defense - that sequence in the last 5 minutes where Cap took 4-5 shots - ball caroming off defenders and re-shot multiple times - not sure the keeper touched it once - 1,400 fans not sure if it was going to be cleared or put in the net for what seemed like 20 -30 seconds.
Bittersweet moment for my son and former teammates - club and high school - who play for Otterbein. I will forever remember the minutes long embrace by Otterbein's captain with my son as he comforted a very emotional opponent and great friend.
So today Cap stands 44th with a SOS of 17. In any other year this would be good enough for a bid - three potentiate bid-stealers with Trinity, Oglethorpe ad Springfield playing today - please win lads!
However it works out, I believe Capital has a foundation upon which they can build. I've seen quite a transformation in the past for years - quality of players, style of play and understanding of what it takes to win DIII soccer. The last three games - Berg, JCU and Otterbein - fantastic efforts by all he boys who left it on the field. Compare these to the Washington & Lee game where players quit playing after the second goal (70 minute mark). Growth, maturity and the #willtowin.
Onward . . .
With 8 spots taken by GL teams it look tough for Cap. The GL has gotten 9 teams in before and the NCAC has gotten 3 teams in. Springfield's loss today in KFTM takes another Pool C bid away most likely. They'll be the last team in or one of the first out.
I am excited and anxious to see where the GL region plays out tonight!
Either JCU or Otterbein as a host? That can play a major difference for the team. I don't think we will see two OAC teams in the same group, so the team that is not hosting may be shipped out somewhere far (New England or Chicago?).
Last year JCU traveled to Lynchburg only to lose 4-1. Kenyon was in that same group as well.
I also want to give credit to the OAC as a whole, there may be two All-Americans from this conference, for the first time in a long time. The last few years OAC was dominated by JCU's Brian Potonik then ONU's Matt Kinkoph. This year JCU's Jesse Marinaro (finishes in the top 5 points all-time for JCU) should be an all american. Also, with what Otterbein's defense has done this year, I would not be surprised to see a defender/keeper be recognized as all-american either. You can also add in BW's Danny Ruple who dominated the OAC statistically as a future all american.
Quote from: bestfancle on November 06, 2017, 08:07:44 AM
I am excited and anxious to see where the GL region plays out tonight!
Either JCU or Otterbein as a host? That can play a major difference for the team. I don't think we will see two OAC teams in the same group, so the team that is not hosting may be shipped out somewhere far (New England or Chicago?).
Last year JCU traveled to Lynchburg only to lose 4-1. Kenyon was in that same group as well.
I also want to give credit to the OAC as a whole, there may be two All-Americans from this conference, for the first time in a long time. The last few years OAC was dominated by JCU's Brian Potonik then ONU's Matt Kinkoph. This year JCU's Jesse Marinaro (finishes in the top 5 points all-time for JCU) should be an all american. Also, with what Otterbein's defense has done this year, I would not be surprised to see a defender/keeper be recognized as all-american either. You can also add in BW's Danny Ruple who dominated the OAC statistically as a future all american.
Agreed re: Otterbein's defense. Senior Jaden Lunger has been all-conference all three previous years and all-Ohio last year. I think he receives some level of All-American recognition.
A few thoughts BEFORE the announcements...just because....
1) Congrats to the OAC. Seriously. A fan or two could learn some things, but especially the top handful of teams have had good to very good to great years. I genuinely hope Capital snares a bid, as, when I looked at the teams vying for the last few Pool C slots, Capital is as good (or better) a choice as any. I will especially be happy for Domino and his kid.
2) Props to OWU. Somehow, some way, OWU manages to keep their string of consecutive NCAA appearances intact. Last year they did so without making the conference tournament at all, and this year, when they had to have the AQ, they prevailed against a Wabash team that was within 2 minutes of knocking them out and then enjoyed a very unusual set of circumstances to prevail again in PKs in the title game. I could go on about good fortune but they obviously have something to do with creating their fortunes. Before the last Kenyon game, I would have bet on OWU finding some way to stay alive, and they did, even though I didn't imagine that happening as it did in reality. As Coach Martin barrels ahead towards 700 wins, I tip my cap to OWU Nation. Next year they should be back on their usual top-of-the-table form, but even this year they could be a team primed to pull an upset or two with no pressure on them at all.
3) Congrats to Kenyon and Coach Brown. The Lords are now at 5 consecutive NCAA appearances (I am pretty sure). I thought this would be a key year in the Brown era as the Amolo-Clougher group was gone after a historic 4 year run. The strength of a program is its ability to keep to stay at or near the top year after year, including after major losses. Next year will be yet another huge challenge, but by almost any measure Kenyon has had another superb campaign.
4) We can never know the often small, sometimes never remembered, and sometimes quite memorable moments that go into impacting who wins a game or who gets a bid. That JCU last second goal versus CMU looms large, stealing a ranked win from CMU and possibly impacting the fortunes of CMU and Capital. Or JCU NOT scoring on several great chances to give Capital another ranked loss before PKs. Or if OWU ends up ranked impacting several teams when a loss to Wabash surely would have prevented that. I could go on.
5) I was texting with a Kenyon legend after the game Saturday and he asked me if I was OK. I was a ton more OK than I was when Kenyon allowed Majumder to turn in the box at the six (and now I remember the unforced error that led to the Tufts throw-in that should have never happened to begin with). Anyway, I asked him if he was OK. He responded that Kenyon soccer meant nothing in this era of our ridiculous, embarrassing and incredibly dangerous national leadership.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 11:43:50 AM
A few thoughts BEFORE the announcements...just because....
1) Congrats to the OAC. Seriously. A fan or two could learn some things, but especially the top handful of teams have had good to very good to great years. I genuinely hope Capital snares a bid, as, when I looked at the teams vying for the last few Pool C slots, Capital is as good (or better) a choice as any. I will especially be happy for Domino and his kid.
2) Props to OWU. Somehow, some way, OWU manages to keep their string of consecutive NCAA appearances intact. Last year they did so without making the conference tournament at all, and this year, when they had to have the AQ, they prevailed against a Wabash team that was within 2 minutes of knocking them out and then enjoyed a very unusual set of circumstances to prevail again in PKs in the title game. I could go on about good fortune but they obviously have something to do with creating their fortunes. Before the last Kenyon game, I would have bet on OWU finding some way to stay alive, and they did, even though I didn't imagine that happening as it did in reality. As Coach Martin barrels ahead towards 700 wins, I tip my cap to OWU Nation. Next year they should be back on their usual top-of-the-table form, but even this year they could be a team primed to pull an upset or two with no pressure on them at all.
3) Congrats to Kenyon and Coach Brown. The Lords are now at 5 consecutive NCAA appearances (I am pretty sure). I thought this would be a key year in the Brown era as the Amolo-Clougher group was gone after a historic 4 year run. The strength of a program is its ability to keep to stay at or near the top year after year, including after major losses. Next year will be yet another huge challenge, but by almost any measure Kenyon has had another superb campaign.
4) We can never know the often small, sometimes never remembered, and sometimes quite memorable moments that go into impacting who wins a game or who gets a bid. That JCU last second goal versus CMU looms large, stealing a ranked win from CMU and possibly impacting the fortunes of CMU and Capital. Or JCU NOT scoring on several great chances to give Capital another ranked loss before PKs. Or if OWU ends up ranked impacting several teams when a loss to Wabash surely would have prevented that. I could go on.
5) I was texting with a Kenyon legend after the game Saturday and he asked me if I was OK. I was a ton more OK than I was when Kenyon allowed Majumder to turn in the box at the six (and now I remember the unforced error that led to the Tufts throw-in that should have never happened to begin with). Anyway, I asked him if he was OK. He responded that Kenyon soccer meant nothing in this era of our ridiculous, embarrassing and incredibly dangerous national leadership.
Excellent thoughts Paul!
OWU seems to overachieve which I think is a great testament to their coaching staff and the way they approach leadership development. Kenyon really pulled it together towards the end of the season, and what they did during their regular season was very impressive.
Seeing that JCU (vs. CMU) goal live, I knew it was a big deal, but could never have imagined the implication it would have at this point in the season.
Let's hope Great Lakes represents well in the NCAA tournament, we should be able to do some things this year!
Will update when the actual bracket is uploaded (this new Video method STINKS), but it seems that JCU and Otterbein host. Capital makes it in as well. JCU gets OWU the first game, with Calvin looming for the winner.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 11:43:50 AM
A few thoughts BEFORE the announcements...just because....
1) Congrats to the OAC. Seriously. A fan or two could learn some things, but especially the top handful of teams have had good to very good to great years. I genuinely hope Capital snares a bid, as, when I looked at the teams vying for the last few Pool C slots, Capital is as good (or better) a choice as any. I will especially be happy for Domino and his kid.
2) Props to OWU. Somehow, some way, OWU manages to keep their string of consecutive NCAA appearances intact. Last year they did so without making the conference tournament at all, and this year, when they had to have the AQ, they prevailed against a Wabash team that was within 2 minutes of knocking them out and then enjoyed a very unusual set of circumstances to prevail again in PKs in the title game. I could go on about good fortune but they obviously have something to do with creating their fortunes. Before the last Kenyon game, I would have bet on OWU finding some way to stay alive, and they did, even though I didn't imagine that happening as it did in reality. As Coach Martin barrels ahead towards 700 wins, I tip my cap to OWU Nation. Next year they should be back on their usual top-of-the-table form, but even this year they could be a team primed to pull an upset or two with no pressure on them at all.
3) Congrats to Kenyon and Coach Brown. The Lords are now at 5 consecutive NCAA appearances (I am pretty sure). I thought this would be a key year in the Brown era as the Amolo-Clougher group was gone after a historic 4 year run. The strength of a program is its ability to keep to stay at or near the top year after year, including after major losses. Next year will be yet another huge challenge, but by almost any measure Kenyon has had another superb campaign.
4) We can never know the often small, sometimes never remembered, and sometimes quite memorable moments that go into impacting who wins a game or who gets a bid. That JCU last second goal versus CMU looms large, stealing a ranked win from CMU and possibly impacting the fortunes of CMU and Capital. Or JCU NOT scoring on several great chances to give Capital another ranked loss before PKs. Or if OWU ends up ranked impacting several teams when a loss to Wabash surely would have prevented that. I could go on.
5) I was texting with a Kenyon legend after the game Saturday and he asked me if I was OK. I was a ton more OK than I was when Kenyon allowed Majumder to turn in the box at the six (and now I remember the unforced error that led to the Tufts throw-in that should have never happened to begin with). Anyway, I asked him if he was OK. He responded that Kenyon soccer meant nothing in this era of our ridiculous, embarrassing and incredibly dangerous national leadership.
Thanks for the positive vibes - it worked!!!
So JCU gets 1st in the last ranking for Great Lakes.
JCU's Group:
JCU vs. OWU
Calvin vs. Thomas More
JCU's group plays Chicago's group:
Chicago vs. Lake Forest
Dominican (IL) vs. Capital
The other prominent Great Lakes group, Otterbein:
Otterbein vs. Medille
Kenyon vs. Transylvania
Congrats, friends, on the Pool C bids. I thought Cap was out until I dug into the numbers - then I thought they should be in. Tough for CMU, but you have to get some good wins. Cap did that, so I think the committee got it right for them at least. CMU can thank (curse?) a last second goal against JCU and bad geography for being left out in favor of Texas-Tyler.
New job started at full speed, plus the at-large predictions, plus some personal stuff, so I haven't had time to pull together overall thoughts. Hope to be able to discuss the upcoming match-ups and last weekend's games later on this week.
PN - I have to strongly disagree on one point from the NCAC final up front. The OWU alum section unanimously thought Carmona was head-and-shoulders above everyone else on the field.
RH, as a former CB I would think you'd have a keen focus on Lowry's skills. Especially without Myers next to him he puts out a ton of fires and probably has the best foot skills and instincts of anyone this side of Carmona.
Speaking of Carmona, I would guess the OWU alum section was mystified that Carmona didn't take a PK!
Congrats on making yet another tournament, and I'm picking OWU for the "upset" over JCU.
Talking about Carmona reminded me that Kenyon lost Penas in the 1st half in what looked like at least a foul (that would have been right in front of the OWU alum section) and that led to one of OWU's best scoring chances from the run of play (as otherwise OWU's best offense were the Huelsman throw-ins). I don't know if Penas suffered an ACL type injury or will be back, but as a playmaker in the Carmona mold he would be a big loss going forward. Carmona plays deep a ton like the Italian star who now plays MLS (blanking on his name) and I'd love to see him more often in an attacking mid role. Kenyon needs better and cleaner offensive chances, although they had enough the other day to get the job done and they didn't finish any of them. Koval had at least a couple and Jeon had the ball on his foot at what looked like about 3 yards from goal. Then there were a couple of perfectly played balls right threw the box that a couple of Kenyon players weren't alert enough to tap in. Those are plays that will make the difference between advancing and not.
I am not inclined to feel sorry for OWU (or for JCU for that matter) but it really is a disservice to these teams every year where Calvin is underseeded. Everyone knows Calvin is one of the top 3-4 teams in the country, and yet, the team that has earned hosting, gets Calvin in a pod. Happened to CMU last year. Also not fair to Calvin as the Knights have to play a highly seeded team that according to the seeding is supposed to beat Calvin. Folks should remember that when they question Calvin. The Knights get tested right out of the gate.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Talking about Carmona reminded me that Kenyon lost Penas in the 1st half in what looked like at least a foul (that would have been right in front of the OWU alum section) and that led to one of OWU's best scoring chances from the run of play (as otherwise OWU's best offense were the Huelsman throw-ins). I don't know if Penas suffered an ACL type injury or will be back, but as a playmaker in the Carmona mold he would be a big loss going forward. Carmona plays deep a ton like the Italian star who now plays MLS (blanking on his name) and I'd love to see him more often in an attacking mid role. Kenyon needs better and cleaner offensive chances, although they had enough the other day to get the job done and they didn't finish any of them. Koval had at least a couple and Jeon had the ball on his foot at what looked like about 3 yards from goal. Them there were a couple of perfectly played balls right threw the box that a couple of Kenyon players weren't alert enough to tap in. Those are plays that will make the difference between advancing and not.
Obviously I am not contributing much to this, but if you mean Pirlo, he just retired today. :)
Quote from: blooter442 on November 06, 2017, 10:39:45 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 10:16:56 PM
Talking about Carmona reminded me that Kenyon lost Penas in the 1st half in what looked like at least a foul (that would have been right in front of the OWU alum section) and that led to one of OWU's best scoring chances from the run of play (as otherwise OWU's best offense were the Huelsman throw-ins). I don't know if Penas suffered an ACL type injury or will be back, but as a playmaker in the Carmona mold he would be a big loss going forward. Carmona plays deep a ton like the Italian star who now plays MLS (blanking on his name) and I'd love to see him more often in an attacking mid role. Kenyon needs better and cleaner offensive chances, although they had enough the other day to get the job done and they didn't finish any of them. Koval had at least a couple and Jeon had the ball on his foot at what looked like about 3 yards from goal. Them there were a couple of perfectly played balls right threw the box that a couple of Kenyon players weren't alert enough to tap in. Those are plays that will make the difference between advancing and not.
Obviously I am not contributing much to this, but if you mean Pirlo, he just retired today. :)
Yes, him....early dementia is frightening.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 09:56:35 PM
RH, as a former CB I would think you'd have a keen focus on Lowry's skills. Especially without Myers next to him he puts out a ton of fires and probably has the best foot skills and instincts of anyone this side of Carmona.
Speaking of Carmona, I would guess the OWU alum section was mystified that Carmona didn't take a PK!
Congrats on making yet another tournament, and I'm picking OWU for the "upset" over JCU.
Complete agreement on Lowry. One of the most criminally underrated defenders the past three season. Never the prettiest player but he constantly amazes me with his strength, speed, and ability to find a loose ball after a challenge.
On Carmona, he missed a penalty on his Kenyon debut a few years ago. Not taken one since! He has also played minutes in an attacking role but so hard to give up someone who can guarantee possession as you play out from the back.
Quote from: The Cove on November 06, 2017, 10:58:35 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 09:56:35 PM
RH, as a former CB I would think you'd have a keen focus on Lowry's skills. Especially without Myers next to him he puts out a ton of fires and probably has the best foot skills and instincts of anyone this side of Carmona.
Speaking of Carmona, I would guess the OWU alum section was mystified that Carmona didn't take a PK!
Congrats on making yet another tournament, and I'm picking OWU for the "upset" over JCU.
Complete agreement on Lowry. One of the most criminally underrated defenders the past three season. Never the prettiest player but he constantly amazes me with his strength, speed, and ability to find a loose ball after a challenge.
On Carmona, he missed a penalty on his Kenyon debut a few years ago. Not taken one since! He has also played minutes in an attacking role but so hard to give up someone who can guarantee possession as you play out from the back.
I actually might move Lowry to the holding mid slot because his ball winning and distribution are excellent and he can make those rusn with the ball 2-3 times a game that put the defense under a ton of pressure. Could move Myers back to CB and Carmona up further. Myers has 12-13 goals. He'd still have 8 or so playing CB off set pieces, so the gain putting him up top is marginal for giving up an AA CB.
It will be very challenging for JCU to beat OWU again. JCU needs to return to from from a couple of weeks ago, and hopefully getting knocked out by Capital wakes them up. Jay Martin is a great coach, and it will be a battle. I think JCU wins out, in overtime, although there will not be the same scoring outburst there was last game. JCU did lose round 1 last year, and I think they are extremely motivated to go further this year.
Then the winner faces Calvin, which will be extremely tough as well! Can't wait to see what happens.
Splitting hairs on #9 and #2 - both were stand outs. 9 more so in the first half, but #2 was flawless second half - great composure under pressure and winning balls without fouling.
But I commented to the Kenyon fans I sat next to about #8 for OWU. I truly enjoy watching him play - since freshman year he impressed me. Playing in the middle of the park, taking hits, winning balls - and never carping, chirping or disrespecting opponents or officials. Took a hard foul right in front of me- placed the ball and put it back into play - nothing seems to phase him.
Also very surprised about CMU - but RvR wasn't great. So - the JCU result was more damaging than the CWRU loss? I get JCU would have given another ranked win - just curious if that final loss also made a difference.
Domino, don't over think CMU. Be thankful ;) You crushed them on RvR, and I'm gonna bet OWU did get ranked, giving Cap an impressive 5 ranked wins. The early win over STU was big too. Losing to CWRU looked bad, but the low ranked wins and thus the JCU goal were devastating.
Sharer for OWU is good. Tough kid with good skills and dangerous shot. The frosh Sobotka (#9) also coming on strong. And those Huelsman throw-ins easily could produce a goal in a playoff game.
Btw, since you were there but maybe on the wrong half, did you get a sense of the Penas injury? The Kenyon announcer initially seemed to think leg injury but then later suggested maybe shoulder separation. Collarbone?
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 10:36:47 PM
I am not inclined to feel sorry for OWU (or for JCU for that matter) but it really is a disservice to these teams every year where Calvin is underseeded. Everyone knows Calvin is one of the top 3-4 teams in the country, and yet, the team that has earned hosting, gets Calvin in a pod. Happened to CMU last year. Also not fair to Calvin as the Knights have to play a highly seeded team that according to the seeding is supposed to beat Calvin. Folks should remember that when they question Calvin. The Knights get tested right out of the gate.
I totally agree! Underseeding Calvin doesn't just punish them. It also punishes a host team who had a great season by pitting them against a top 5 team in the first weekend. Not sure how a website that ranks them first or second all season in the national poll also ranks them 4th in their region, but I'm guessing that by now Calvin understands this is going to be how the post season will always go as long as the conference is weak.
If I were setting lines for these matches:
JCU (-0.5) vs. OWU - O/U 2.5 Goals - I have to give JCU the slight advantage due to hosting, but it is a close as you can get to a pick 'em.
Calvin (-2) vs. Thomas More - O/U 3.5 Goals - Could easily see this game as a blowout favoring Calvin
Chicago (-2) vs. Lake Forest - O/U 3 Goals - Similar to Calvin, should be no problem for Chicago
Dominican (even) (IL) vs. Capital - O/U 3.5 Goals - Similar Records, bot teams seem to give up goals. Maybe a slight edge to Cap?
Otterbein (-1) vs. Medille - O/U 2 Goals - Could easily see this going 1-0 or 2-0 to Otterbein off crosses and long throws.
Kenyon (-1.5) vs. Transylvania - O/U - 3 Goals - Kenyon coming off a loss should be ready to play Otterbein the next day.
Quote from: D3 Dad on November 07, 2017, 08:08:13 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2017, 10:36:47 PM
I am not inclined to feel sorry for OWU (or for JCU for that matter) but it really is a disservice to these teams every year where Calvin is underseeded. Everyone knows Calvin is one of the top 3-4 teams in the country, and yet, the team that has earned hosting, gets Calvin in a pod. Happened to CMU last year. Also not fair to Calvin as the Knights have to play a highly seeded team that according to the seeding is supposed to beat Calvin. Folks should remember that when they question Calvin. The Knights get tested right out of the gate.
I totally agree! Underseeding Calvin doesn't just punish them. It also punishes a host team who had a great season by pitting them against a top 5 team in the first weekend. Not sure how a website that ranks them first or second all season in the national poll also ranks them 4th in their region, but I'm guessing that by now Calvin understands this is going to be how the post season will always go as long as the conference is weak.
The national rankings that are provided on the NCAA website are
NOT the NCAA's rankings. Those are the United Soccer Coaches (USC) national rankings. It is labelled as such, but it can be confusing if you don't notice that. The regional rankings on the NCAA website are done by the NCAA, the national rankings on the NCAA website are done by USC. So two separate and independent entities working under different criteria, with different methods and objectives. So there are naturally going to be conflicts and discrepancies between the two.
GREAT LAKES REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - November 06, 2017
Rank
|
School | . Div. III .
Record | . Div. III .
SOS |
. R-v-R .
| . Overall .
Record | . Prev. .
Rank |
1. | Otterbein | 17-2-0 | 0.570 | 7-1-0 | 17-2-0 | 2 |
2. | John Carroll | 15-2-2 | 0.597 | 4-2-2 | 15-2-2 | 1 |
3. | Kenyon | 15-2-3 | 0.580 | 2-2-2 | 15-2-3 | 3 |
4. | Thomas More | 14-4-2 | 0.580 | 1-1-1 | 14-4-2 | 5 |
5. | Capital | 12-7-2 | 0.609 | 4-5-2 | 12-7-2 | 6 |
6. | Carnegie Mellon | 10-4-3 | 0.623 | 1-3-3 | 10-4-3 | 4 |
7. | Marietta | 11-6-3 | 0.556 | 2-3-3 | 11-6-3 | -- |
8. | Ohio Northern | 12-6-2 | 0.575 | 2-4-1 | 12-6-2 | 7 |
Quote from: bestfancle on November 07, 2017, 12:11:18 PM
If I were setting lines for these matches:
JCU (-0.5) vs. OWU - O/U 2.5 Goals - I have to give JCU the slight advantage due to hosting, but it is a close as you can get to a pick 'em.
Calvin (-2) vs. Thomas More - O/U 3.5 Goals - Could easily see this game as a blowout favoring Calvin
Chicago (-2) vs. Lake Forest - O/U 3 Goals - Similar to Calvin, should be no problem for Chicago
Dominican (even) (IL) vs. Capital - O/U 3.5 Goals - Similar Records, bot teams seem to give up goals. Maybe a slight edge to Cap?
Otterbein (-1) vs. Medille - O/U 2 Goals - Could easily see this going 1-0 or 2-0 to Otterbein off crosses and long throws.
Kenyon (-1.5) vs. Transylvania - O/U - 3 Goals - Kenyon coming off a loss should be ready to play Otterbein the next day.
Oh I like this.....I'll take Chicago at -2 for 1000 bananas, Calvin -2 for 1000 bananas, Dominican / Capital under 3.5 for 500 bananas and Kenyon -1.5 for 1000 bananas...I will email you a banana account # shortly.
Quick thoughts (edit - on review, not so quick):
(1) Lowry was very good, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't like he was holding down the fort while Kenyon was under siege. I thought Carmona had a much bigger impact - Kenyon controlled the ball because of him. Kenyon plays too direct in the final third, in my opinion, but they build well from the back, recycle the ball after clearances, and go again, all because of him. I think if you took him off the team, Kenyon would be forced to completely change their style of play, and they'd have to play much more direct the full length of the field, which is quite easy to defend. Put it this way - I would still favor Kenyon over OWU even if you replaced Lowry with an average CB. I'd favor OWU if you replaced Carmona with an average CM. Good chance this postseason, however, that a team will put Kenyon under sustained pressure for a half or a full game, and in that type of game Lowry could be the more valuable player.
(2) The first half play looked clean from my view, but even then you sometimes see those called due to the sheer force of the collision. 50-50 call - very much the type of tackle where you think it's clean when your guy makes it and not when the other guy does. We were under the impression that it was a shoulder injury.
(3) I thought the NCAC final was pretty even through regulation. Kenyon had more possession, especially in the second half, but chances were even. Not much in the first. Kenyon had one where someone got loose from 10 yards but had it blocked, and Myers had a header that the OWU keeper made look more difficult than it was. OWU had some half-chances and one really good look that the right mid blazed over when unmarked from 12 yards out. Second half saw even fewer chances. I can't remember if the one play where a Kenyon forward cut inside and shot and the keeper made a great save was in regulation or OT, but that was the main one. OWU had a chance similar to the one in the first half, as the ball fell to an outside mid who blazed over from 12 yards. Overall, 0-0 was fair for 90 minutes. Overtime was a different story, as Kenyon went gangbusters in the first OT and should have won the game. Dominated field position, forced a ton of corners, and had multiple clear-cut, you-have-to-finish-that chances. OWU's keeper made a couple of big saves, including a great breakaway save after an OWU player completely whiffed a clearance. Second OT Kenyon controlled field position but couldn't generate much. OWU did next to nothing in OT, but they fought hard. As for PKs, it's a crapshoot to begin with. Credit to OWU's other keeper for the first save, which was legitimately great, and then for guessing right on a few others even with his team behind. I would think Carmona will take a PK next time, if only because you want to have a say in the outcome when you're such an instrumental part of the team.
From the OWU view, they went bigger in the back, which allowed them to defend crosses much better than the first match-up. But the biggest difference, to be honest, was that nobody played scared. I'd say only 3 guys had the required level of intensity for the first match-up, while almost everyone brought it Saturday. I hope, between Saturday's game and the comeback against Wabash, that the team has turned a corner mentally and will be ready to go from the start on Friday. They'll have to create more going forward, but few teams pressure you through the midfield like Kenyon. And OWU has the firepower to create goals, especially on turf.
For Kenyon, I wouldn't stress over that game. But it did highlight Kenyon's struggles to break down a determined defense if crosses/set pieces aren't working. Perhaps, as PN suggests, moving Lowry up could let Carmona play further forward and play the final ball more often. We'll see. Kenyon has the goods to make the Final Four - very similar to Tufts last year. I think scoring first is the key for Kenyon. Their style makes it difficult for opposing teams to overcome a deficit, but also makes it hard for Kenyon to come from behind.
(4) I don't think OWU particularly cares who they play right now. Not in the sense that they're the favorite, because they aren't, or that they are overconfident, because they still haven't beaten a tournament-level team. But OWU knows they can play with the other three teams in that pod - they played Calvin even, had JCU on the ropes, and played Thomas More tough despite sleepwalking through a full half. And all of those games were on the road. The team should be loose, as they're playing with house money. Much different than the way OWU limped into the tournament last year. We'll see how they do, but I love seeing this team get the postseason experience when they only play 1 senior and 2 juniors. Sets the program up well for the future.
(5) Also thrilled for my little brother to get his first NCAC tournament title. It's been a rough season for him - he suffered a concussion the second weekend of the season and is still recovering. Missing your senior season is tough enough, even more so when the team was struggling and the defense was leaking goals (he's a CB). Regardless of what happens in the tournament, that was a good way for him to go out.
Great post. Well described. Not a quibble.
Quote from: bestfancle on November 07, 2017, 12:11:18 PM
If I were setting lines for these matches:
JCU (-0.5) vs. OWU - O/U 2.5 Goals - I have to give JCU the slight advantage due to hosting, but it is a close as you can get to a pick 'em.
Calvin (-2) vs. Thomas More - O/U 3.5 Goals - Could easily see this game as a blowout favoring Calvin
Chicago (-2) vs. Lake Forest - O/U 3 Goals - Similar to Calvin, should be no problem for Chicago
Dominican (even) (IL) vs. Capital - O/U 3.5 Goals - Similar Records, bot teams seem to give up goals. Maybe a slight edge to Cap?
Otterbein (-1) vs. Medille - O/U 2 Goals - Could easily see this going 1-0 or 2-0 to Otterbein off crosses and long throws.
Kenyon (-1.5) vs. Transylvania - O/U - 3 Goals - Kenyon coming off a loss should be ready to play Otterbein the next day.
For fun: I'll take Chicago/over, Dominican/under, Otterbein/over, and Transy/under (but Kenyon wins). Not picking a winner in OWU-JCU but I'll take the over.
Today's the day for some of our Great Lakes teams. Good luck to the region!
We had our first snow last night in Northeast, Ohio. Although nothing stuck, its a good indication of how cold it will be tonight, especially in that Calvin vs. Transy game at 8 PM.
JCU vs. OWU takes off at 5:30, and I am more than excited.
Editing my post: At 4PM it is approximately 26 degrees in University Heights, windchill at 15. It's supposed to hover around 24-25 all night. Happy to be in the stands, not on the pitch.
Love the 2 JCU All-Pasta Players and IIRC their 2 best players #10 Lombardo and #21 Marinaro(Coaches Son)...Both seniors
First time seeing either of these teams play this year and I must say JCU appears to be the much stronger side. OWU just booting the ball every time they get it. I'm very impressed with JCU.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 10, 2017, 05:46:40 PM
First time seeing either of these teams play this year and I must say JCU appears to be the much stronger side. OWU just booting the ball every time they get it. I'm very impressed with JCU.
Can't get the stream to work, but see that JCU just scored. Curious as to how OWU responds.
Ah, there we go...not sure if that was a deflection or a deft touch over the 'keeper?
All-Pasta teammates get in on the goal...What is this JCU GK doing?
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2017, 05:51:28 PM
Ah, there we go...not sure if that was a deflection or a deft touch over the 'keeper?
Deflection
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 10, 2017, 05:52:34 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2017, 05:51:28 PM
Ah, there we go...not sure if that was a deflection or a deft touch over the 'keeper?
Deflection
Just watched again twice -- looked like a nice touch to me but looked like more luck than judgment. GK certainly didn't cover himself in glory, but he was in a tough spot.
SICK STRIKE
Great hit. No deflection on that one!
What a great game this is...Well played game of futbol on the ground..Not sure about that PK as that looked from our view like all ball nut will check the replay...Nice ball though before the PK..
Looked clean to me after reviewing the replay, but still a tough call for the ref in the moment.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 10, 2017, 06:17:19 PM
Looked clean to me after reviewing the replay, but still a tough call for the ref in the moment.
Yea thats what I thought..
Tough call indeed, but great through ball from Marinaro and then the PK was put away confidently.
This JCU team is fun to watch but I thought before the PK that OWU was growing into the game and had some chances to take the lead. All-Pasta team in on both goals but no help for Italia who lost to Sweden today 1-0 and now must win at San Siro on Tuesday or miss out on 1st WC since 1958..
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 06:31:00 PM
This JCU team is fun to watch but I thought before the PK that OWU was growing into the game and had some chances to take the lead. All-Pasta team in on both goals but no help for Italia who lost to Sweden today 1-0 and now must win at San Siro on Tuesday or miss out on 1st WC since 1958..
Can't say I would miss watching Catenaccio, particularly now that Pirlo's retired...
Ya I hear ya..Did you see Chiellini criticize Pep for "ruining" Italian defenders..lol...interesting article I'll try to find for u
JCU needs another goal or else they are gonna be in trouble. Would not want OWU to tie this up or send into extra time. Even with the questionable PK call (and that was a gorgeous thru ball but ref maybe should have consulted with his AR who likely had a good view), OWU likely felt confident at the half.
OWU's record of NCAA appearances is truly astounding. 40 out of 44 possible appearances.
That was nice....These 2 are fun to watch..Marinaro a typical coaches son with incredible vision on the pitch..Lombardo a classy finisher..3-1 JCU
And that should be curtains.
What a sequence of play followed by a great finish for JCU. They have been knocking at the door for this 3rd goal all half and there they get it. Props to OWU for the effort, but this JCU team is scary offensively.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2017, 07:01:00 PM
And that should be curtains.
lol..Agreed not sure what this young OWU team has left...
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 10, 2017, 07:03:05 PM
What a sequence of play followed by a great finish for JCU. They have been knocking at the door for this 3rd goal all half and there they get it. Props to OWU for the effort, but this JCU team is scary offensively.
Also Agreed..2nd Half all JCU
Announcers have been excellent. Very balanced for home team guys.
I still would not let OWU score in next 5 minutes.
Assuming Calvin wins tonight tomorrow with JCU will be a good one.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2017, 07:13:58 PM
Announcers have been excellent. Very balanced for home team guys.
I still would not let OWU score in next 5 minutes.
Assuming Calvin wins tonight tomorrow with JCU will be a good one.
Yes very good announcing...Well prepared especially Play by Play kid..very mature college kids
For anyone who doesn't know, they are playing in Don Shula Stadium as JCU is Shula's alma mater.
Very professional performance from JCU. I thought they had the better of the early play, so to give up an equalizer (albeit a great shot) against the run of play is somewhat demoralizing, but -- even with the PK being somewhat fortuitous -- I still think they are deserved winners.
Congrats to JCU. Played a strong game. Even though not a classic OWU outfit it's still a big confidence boost to get past OWU and Martin. Blue Streaks will feel good tomorrow night again on their home pitch.
While waiting for game #2 let's talk a little bit about Bowdoin lol.
Whoever mentioned earlier that under ranking Calvin really actually punishes their opponents more than Calvin i would say is pretty accurate. This heavily laden senior talented JCU side should not be facing a Calvin until the sweet 16..
Calvin just relentless to start this game..TMC in its heels
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 08:11:57 PM
Whoever mentioned earlier that under ranking Calvin really actually punishes their opponents more than Calvin i would say is pretty accurate. This heavily laden senior talented JCU side should not be facing a Calvin until the sweet 16..
I couldn't agree more. Especially when other less skilled teams have cake walks into the sweet 16. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself but Calvin v. JCU will be a fantastic game.
WOW...what a hit but off the underside of the bar! Close for TMC.
WOW....What a giveaway off a throw by Clavin and TMC player rips a 30 yarder off the cross bar
Looking at it again, that came off the angle of post and bar top right. Veeeeeeeeery close.
Wow, sucker punch by Calvin just after TMC had a great chance. Really nice diagonal through ball to switch the play that found the man on the right, and Witte crosses for McCaw. 1-0 Knights.
Yea nice goal...Calvin looks laser focused on attack
TMC zoning on corners against Calvin...Interesting
Man it is fun to watch Calvin attack...they have great speed and a number of dynamic runners.
Did anyone else hear that? Apparently the JCU SID told the announcers that they are hosting the VBall national championships coming up, but opted out of bidding for hosting soccer.
Nice idea by Stark going outside of the boot, but too far in the end. A promising counter goes begging.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2017, 08:28:02 PM
Man it is fun to watch Calvin attack...they have great speed and a number of dynamic runners.
Agreed..
Calvin CB and GK caught in a miscommunication, TMC attacker steals the ball away but it goes out for a goal kick. Calvin has been extremely dynamic up top but that was worrisome.
TMC is in on goal but van Ryn makes a great save. There are more goals in this one!
Gotta finish that
See how fast Calvin goes once they get the ball...plays right to feet than boom they are off..That is how you beat Tufts....You are correct that Calvin's off ball running is as impressive as I have seen all year
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 08:38:24 PM
See how fast Calvin goes once they get the ball...plays right to feet than boom they are off..That is how you beat Tufts....You are correct that Calvin's off ball running is as impressive as I have seen all year
Exactly, like you said you really have to get at them before they get "set"...I would be curious to know the % of goals Calvin scores on the counter. Even in the few times I've seen them, they are the best counter attacking team in D3 for my money.
Calvin has probably edged it but TMC has had its own chances. They are certainly still in this game.
Now these announcers will not stop talking....
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2017, 08:50:28 PM
Now these announcers will not stop talking....
At least there's no bird call! ;)
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2017, 08:41:16 PM
Calvin has probably edged it but TMC has had its own chances. They are certainly still in this game.
Agreed...Calvin does look somewhat susceptible of giving up a goal if TMC plays it right BUT they cannot give up another one to Calvin
Assuming a Calvin win, JCU will have more offensive firepower and creativity than any team they've seen this year. We'll see if that matters.
Complete lack of focus by TMC defensively...Calvin kid with a header with 3 defenders around him ball watching
Fire up the bus to Crestview Hills, KY.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2017, 09:15:43 PM
Fire up the bus to Crestview Hills, KY.
I wonder if Bojangles' will still be open this late, or if they even have them in Ohio.
(For those who don't know, Bojangles' is basically KFC on steroids, and better than Chick-Fil-A and Popeyes', too. Best fast food chain in America, and I've had In-N-Out. The closest one to Boston is in Reading, PA. I've implored their employees to expand Northeast, promising profitability.)
Pretty funny to hear the announcer talking about the TMC approach of "we have nothing to lose, let's take 'em on" and then having his stream-of-consciousness rambling interrupted by the second goal.
What a nightmare...TMC getting outclassed now...just bad decisions tonight...I must say I will be very interested in tuning into this JCU v Calvin game tomorrow night..Both teams attack with numbers...
Off to New Zealand....Interestingly Peru favored by a goal tonight at New Zealand...BEIN Sports
Here comes 15 minutes of the....the measure of a man isn't how he acts when he's up 5-0 but how he stands up to adversity and fights until the bitter end when he's down 5-0.
Watching Witte gain the byline, turn the corner and drop balls back to the spot/18 yd line - same as it ever was. He did that 5,6? times last year against Tufts? And he'll do it again tonight. It's like watching Arjen Robben going to go left - you can dare him to go right but he's going to get the ball on his left before he shoots or passes. Wonder if JCU will try to make Witte go to his left.
Just a great attacking display last night - clinical is overused to describe such play - but that's what they were last night. Love the one and two-touch play. Wished our boys played that way . . .
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 09:23:26 PM
What a nightmare...TMC getting outclassed now...just bad decisions tonight...I must say I will be very interested in tuning into this JCU v Calvin game tomorrow night..Both teams attack with numbers...
After watching both teams today I agree this will be a great 2nd round matchup. Both play similar styles...ball in the ground, quick passes, not a lot of fouling so the game has a good flow. This should be a sweet 16 or later game. . shame one of them has to go home after this game
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2017, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 09:23:26 PM
What a nightmare...TMC getting outclassed now...just bad decisions tonight...I must say I will be very interested in tuning into this JCU v Calvin game tomorrow night..Both teams attack with numbers...
After watching both teams today I agree this will be a great 2nd round matchup. Both play similar styles...ball in the ground, quick passes, not a lot of fouling so the game has a good flow. This should be a sweet 16 or later game. . shame one of them has to go home after this game
And this is basically all I was trying to say a few days ago about Calvin being underseeded whether 100% procedurally correct or not. I'm gonna guess too that JCU is every bit the team North Park is.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2017, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 09:23:26 PM
What a nightmare...TMC getting outclassed now...just bad decisions tonight...I must say I will be very interested in tuning into this JCU v Calvin game tomorrow night..Both teams attack with numbers...
After watching both teams today I agree this will be a great 2nd round matchup. Both play similar styles...ball in the ground, quick passes, not a lot of fouling so the game has a good flow. This should be a sweet 16 or later game. . shame one of them has to go home after this game
And this is basically all I was trying to say a few days ago about Calvin being underseeded whether 100% procedurally correct or not. I'm gonna guess too that JCU is every bit the team North Park is.
Ahh I agree..Were you saying the under seeding of Calvin was a direct hit on its opponents and not really Calvin itself? I would have to agree. This JCU v Calvin match is an Elite 8 / Sweet 16 match easily. Such a shame because both rosters are loaded with seniors
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 10:57:29 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 10:39:04 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2017, 09:39:13 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2017, 09:23:26 PM
What a nightmare...TMC getting outclassed now...just bad decisions tonight...I must say I will be very interested in tuning into this JCU v Calvin game tomorrow night..Both teams attack with numbers...
After watching both teams today I agree this will be a great 2nd round matchup. Both play similar styles...ball in the ground, quick passes, not a lot of fouling so the game has a good flow. This should be a sweet 16 or later game. . shame one of them has to go home after this game
And this is basically all I was trying to say a few days ago about Calvin being underseeded whether 100% procedurally correct or not. I'm gonna guess too that JCU is every bit the team North Park is.
Ahh I agree..Were you saying the under seeding of Calvin was a direct hit on its opponents and not really Calvin itself? I would have to agree. This JCU v Calvin match is an Elite 8 / Sweet 16 match easily. Such a shame because both rosters are loaded with seniors
Yes, exactly. It's not fair to Calvin either, but it's in some ways further proof of their underseeding that THEY seem completely unphased and just keep beating whoever is in front of them. Basically a yearly thing, so not new at all. And most teams with a great record who are suspect in reality get bounced right away.
Got the chance to see the JCU game last night and watched the Calvin game as well.
JCU looked the best I've ever seen them, so maybe losing to Capital was a good thing. Marinaro, after an already impressive season, completely dominated the game. Even to a point where it looked like he was playing defensive mid and just distributing the ball like a point guard. He had two assists and the Penalty (which he basically created). JCU's other seniors were impressive as well, both Lombardo and Browsky were clinical. The goal they gave up was an incredible strike from OWU, and they have a lot to look forward to in upcoming years.
Calvin was extremely impressive as well, for as good as JCU played, they have to be even better defensively. Offensively, JCU should be able to keep up, but if they aren't tight at the back, it could go south. Should be an excellent match.
Quote from: bestfancle on November 11, 2017, 12:05:56 PM
Got the chance to see the JCU game last night and watched the Calvin game as well.
JCU looked the best I've ever seen them, so maybe losing to Capital was a good thing. Marinaro, after an already impressive season, completely dominated the game. Even to a point where it looked like he was playing defensive mid and just distributing the ball like a point guard. He had two assists and the Penalty (which he basically created). JCU's other seniors were impressive as well, both Lombardo and Browsky were clinical. The goal they gave up was an incredible strike from OWU, and they have a lot to look forward to in upcoming years.
Calvin was extremely impressive as well, for as good as JCU played, they have to be even better defensively. Offensively, JCU should be able to keep up, but if they aren't tight at the back, it could go south. Should be an excellent match.
I would agree with all of this...Marinaro was just pulling the strings all game...Also, you are correct JCU will need to tighten up defensively because there were some loose moments last night defensively especially in the 1st half. I will say that both teams will have plenty of space on the counter if both play the same as last night. My hunch is that JCU plays a bit more conservative
JCU was value for the win. Similar to the first game, they were the better side for long stretches. OWU showed flashes, but JCU really dominated the second half until the third goal. They let their foot off the gas a bit after that, and if OWU had a little more composure could have pulled one back. But JCU really turned it on, and their attack should cause problems for anyone, including Calvin. 3-1 was probably reflective of the overall game.
Still, hard to ignore key referee decisions in the first half. The first goal looked clearly offside, although I did not have a great angle for it. It's of course possible that, right as the JCU attacker shot, the goalscorer reacted and ended up several yards behind the defense. But it looked like he strayed well offside and happened to be there when the ball came through. The second goal, as others have said, was just a bad call. Add in that the linesman on the near side could not run fast enough to keep up with the game (although it had no impact), and you shake your head and wonder how you end up with those referees in an NCAA game. To be fair, I've seen national titles decided on worse calls--see Messiah v. Lynchburg, 2010. But the game is much different if it's 1-1 or 1-0 OWU at half instead of 2-1 JCU. OWU needed to play well and have a little luck to advance, and instead they were clearly outplayed and suffered some bad breaks.
Even assuming the refs missed both calls, though, the first two goals were preventable. For the first, OWU let a guy dribble from deep right into the box, straight through the heart of the team. Great attacking play, yes, but someone needed to make a tackle, force a pass, or take a foul.
For the second, OWU had JCU pinned deep, JCU cleared the ball, and despite having three defenders marking one JCU forward, nobody made a play on the ball. That gave the forward enough time to bring the ball down with a nice touch and lay it off. OWU defense needed to be aggressive there. Best case, you win the ball and keep JCU pinned deep. Otherwise, you commit a foul and can reset with your defense behind the ball. With three defenders back, worst case you miss the ball and still have two guys behind to defend.
Then, after the layoff, the entire defense converged on the ball, leaving a player open streaking down the right side. That one looked just onside, to me, and a good through ball to him. But a bit of communication and OWU would have had one player stay wide to pick him up. So yes, poor refereeing, but OWU could have avoided those situations. And JCU is so good going forward that they punished them.
Up-and-down season. After losing 5 of their top 15 players to season-ending injuries, the young guys picked up a ton of experience by playing several top-15 teams close and making the NCAA tournament. But disappointing to see a true "rebuilding" year, especially after a letdown 2016. That said, if OWU can pull another good recruiting class, I expect a top 20 team in 2018. OWU loses only one senior (a right back) and two juniors, and will return both goalkeepers and every goalscorer.
Good luck to the remaining GL teams tonight and the rest of the way.
Is Otterbein really making us pay ??! No lo-res version??!
And is anyone else having any trouble with the feed, period? And if I want to pay how do I do it?
I am getting the otterbein feed, no commentary.
Calvin's speed on the backline is affecting JCU's fast counter...They are getting to balls that OWU was not getting to last night
Wow..Calvin's mcColl just misses wide...JCU looking for Marinaro and whoever on Calvin is marking him VERY WELL..right in his grill and not letting him do anything like last night
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 07:34:36 PM
Wow..Calvin's mcColl just misses wide...JCU looking for Marinaro and whoever on Calvin is marking him VERY WELL..right in his grill and not letting him do anything like last night
Likely Vegter. The kid is an absolute stud.
Yea...Good good game between these 2...0-0 at the Half with both teams...Calvin with a nasty chance before the half but a fine save by JCU GK....
Play fairly even but Calvin had the two best chances by far. Should be at least 1-0.
Is anybody still the press box at Otterbein? Paid my $4.99 and can't even get live stats.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2017, 08:05:05 PM
Is anybody still the press box at Otterbein? Paid my $4.99 and can't even get live stats.
Do you use Chrome and have an adblocker? Apparently that can cause problems.
JCU upping the ante to start the 2nd Half...They are getting better looks at net now..Marinaro starting to find a bit of space
Golden chance for Marinaro but he rushes and hits it over..He had more time but his teammates did not let him know. He was used to having a Calvin defender right on him..JCU looking the more fit team 2nd half.
JCU just misses wide..Very nice hit
Not a bad hit by the JCU kid...
Oof...JCU goes close again!
And there you have it. 1-0 Calvin with 5 left.
What a shame....Calvin gets one with 4 minutes left...JCU must push
Nice grab by van Ryn...JCU isn't going away.
Tough one for JCU. I rewound, the Calvin player was a few yards onside, JCU guy on the right (closer to the screen) kept everyone on.
Damn long throw...25 yard hit gets deflected hits the post and the GK is out of position and Calvin kid taps it in as the defender lost him...Calvin gets the 2nd goal with JCU pushing #'s...That is really a shame..That is a VERY GOOD JCU team full of seniors..This had to be their year...To bad but Calvin is just that good. Should be interesting against Chicago but I have a feeling Calvin is on a real mission here.
Cap.-Dominican seems finely poised as we enter the last 5 or so.
Who is who?
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2017, 10:42:44 PM
Who is who?
Dominican is attacking left to right (for now).
Dominican bench gets 2 Yellow's and a Red and if they advance he will not be near the bench tomorrow...Embarrassment
Ahh PK's to end the evening.....Chicago is going to eat one of these teams alive tomorrow...
Scratch that..... Capital wins it on a fantastic strike with 35 seconds left...nice switch of fields by Capital and then a nice hit after a hard foul that the ref said play on and the the goal..
Nice Cap got their first ever NCAA win, but for the 4th it 5th time this year they had to play against 14. God awful officiating - even the Dominican fans I spoke to after the game agreed. Lost track of the yellows - maybe 8??? Not a very poised effort by Cap - but they persevered and grinded it out.
Missed most of Kenyon vs Transylvania due to the video mess. From what I saw, Kenyon controlled much of possession and pressed a lot. Any win is a good win at this time. However, I could tell I didn't see some of usual characters out there and saw after the game that Jeon didn't play because of concussion protocol and Myers came out after 5 minutes with a leg injury. Saw video of him using two guys to walk off the field and was clearly not putting hardly any weight in his steps. Will be hard to advance much further if those guys can't play.
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 12, 2017, 12:46:41 AM
Nice Cap got their first ever NCAA win, but for the 4th it 5th time this year they had to play against 14. God awful officiating - even the Dominican fans I spoke to after the game agreed. Lost track of the yellows - maybe 8??? Not a very poised effort by Cap - but they persevered and grinded it out.
Cap playing against 14??? Officiating was bad all around...missed two handballs in the box against Capital, who committed 27 FOULS!!! never took a second yellow yet the Dominican coach, received a second yellow while walking away!
Quote from: FR_Sam on November 12, 2017, 01:50:32 AM
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 12, 2017, 12:46:41 AM
Nice Cap got their first ever NCAA win, but for the 4th it 5th time this year they had to play against 14. God awful officiating - even the Dominican fans I spoke to after the game agreed. Lost track of the yellows - maybe 8??? Not a very poised effort by Cap - but they persevered and grinded it out.
Cap playing against 14??? Officiating was bad all around...missed two handballs in the box against Capital, who committed 27 FOULS!!! never took a second yellow yet the Dominican coach, received a second yellow while walking away!
I did say Dominican fans I spoke with after the agreed the officiating was horrible. Capital was whistled for 27 fouls - as to whether they "committed" 27 fouls - that's another story. Another example of a CR who felt he was more important to the game than the players.
One of the alleged handling incidents came off the player's chest - yes his arm was extended away from his body and probably looked like handling - I was on the fence behind the AR looking straight in on the play. AR confirmed it was off the chest.
Yes you said "even the Dominican fans agreed" after you implied it was Dominican and the refs working against Capital and they got the win despite having to play against Dominican's 11 and three officials who were working in Dominican's favor. That was not the case. The officiating was poor. Dominican fans felt they were bad, working against Dominican...Capital fans thought they were bad, working against Capital. I just said they were bad all around.
It is also amazing that the officiating was so bad you felt the need to come on the board and rag on them, yet now you know beyond doubt that a ball in the box was played by a chest because the AR (who was bad as you have stated) confirmed it was played with a chest. See the irony in that? If the officials were that awful, just maybe you shouldn't use the official confirming a call to be the reason why a ball in the box was played with a chest as opposed to an extended arm.
Your original post should have ended with "nice to see Cap get their first ever NCAA win. Not a very poised effort but they persevered and grinded it out."
Kenyon all over Otterbein but of course can't score. Did hit a crossbar and missed another just wide.
And of course Otterbein scores after having ball for 10 secs.
Well, nice season. 3 shots for Ott and 3 goals.
Tough loss for JCU Saturday night, you can't knock JCU's effort in the 2-0 loss to Calvin.
I was extremely impressed with both teams, some of the best tactical soccer I have seen live at the division 3 level. Both teams were so strategic and had long periods of possession. JCU's Marinaro had a pretty good chance to go up 1-0, but couldn't convert. I believe Calvin was the better team and probably deserved to win 1-0, but I wouldn't have been surprised to see this game head to OT or for JCU to sneak out a win.
Calvin was so good, both their CB and #9 are gifted players, and were incredible to watch.
Overall great showing by the OAC in my opinion. JCU really took it to OWU, then lost to one of the best teams in the country in a close one. Capital sneaks into the playoffs and wins its first game in 2OT, then loses to another great team in Chicago. Otterbein is still going playing their "brand" of soccer that allowed them to win the OAC tournament. Not the prettiest play, but it works for them. Great coaching coming out of Griffiths and his group.
JCU has to rebuild going into next year. Losing its 3 firepower players on offense will be tough, but they return Parente who will be the main offensive weapon next year. JCU also returns the best Goalie in the conference IMO, and freshman of the year Turintin who is obviously a D-1 player. He may be the captain of the squad next year as a sophomore. I expect two St. Ignatius High School kids to fill the gaps in the defense (if anyone is familiar with Iggy, they are typically the best team in the state each year). One player played significant minutes last year but spent this season studying abroad (plans to play a 5th year). The other player is a freshman on the team right now, who has played spot minutes this year.
Otterbein and Capital should only get better and I don't expect Ohio Northern to stay down for long. They also have a player, who might be the best defender in the conference, Dakota Swisher, who studied abroad this semester and will return next year as a 5th year senior to anchor the defense.
Congratulations to Otterbein. I'll be honest, I don't know how they are doing it, as I only watched them for a full game last night, but 17 in a row is 17 in a row. They beat every team in a conference that was very strong this year, including 2 wins over a very dangerous Capital side. I don't know how they beat JCU, who, IMO, was the top team in GL this year without question. Otterbein also sort of came out of nowhere. Even the OAC contingent here was all into JCU, then Heidelberg, with Capital going in and out of favor all season, and periodic mentions of Ohio Northern and Marietta. Meanwhile, Otterbein just kept winning under the radar until very late in the season when we all began noticing. You can tell from their press conference last night how excited they were (and even seemed surprised themselves). I can't imagine they will seriously challenge St Thomas but who knows. Regardless, those young men will have memories for a lifetime.
As for my Lords, a very disappointing ending. This was a very good season overall after losing last year's stellar class, sort of like if JCU makes the tournament again next year after losing Marinaro, Lombardo, etc. Kenyon came out flying and Otterbein hardly touched the ball for the first 15-20 minutes. But Kenyon didn't score, and then after 2 corners and 2 shots Otterbein was up 2-0. A late 1st half muff in the box by the frosh GK (who has had a great first season) led to a scrum and a 3rd goal. 3 goals on 4 shots and 3 out of 6 for the whole game. The conditions were obviously the same for both teams but not ideal for a comeback. Looked like Kenyon got a goal 10 minutes into the 2nd half but either it didn't cross the line or the refs could not confirm that it did. They fought valiantly to the bitter end and pulled 2 goals back and had decent chances in the final 10 minutes to draw even. Otterbein rarely crossed midfield. Not having Myers no doubt hurt, perhaps more psychologically, but the Lords still had enough to get the job done and they didn't. I've noted before that pressing and dominating possession can be exhausting especially if you don't score and the other team gets one against the run of play. I sometimes wonder if the full press would be more effective as an in and out kind of deal so the other team doesn't know when it's coming and can't adjust as easily.
Congrats to the Kenyon seniors who never achieved what they wanted but still had great careers and were vital cogs in the resurgence of Kenyon soccer over the past 5-6 years. Tough way for Myers to go out, who, btw, did get the NCAC double as Defensive POY last year and Offensive POY this year...first time that's happened since '96 and '97 when Kenyon's Kelsey Olds did the same.
From 2007 to 2016, Otterbein went 7-11-0, 7-7-3, 5-10-3, 3-14-2, 5-10-2, 6-8-3, 9-9-0, 10-9-0, 8-7-3 and 8-7-3. Otterbein hadn't qualified for an OAC tournament since 2003 despite its expansion to 6 teams in 2007. Otterbein hadn't made the NCAA tournament since their surprising run to the Final in 2002.
This year, with a new head coach in Jason Giffiths, the Cardinals go undefeated in OAC play to not only make the conference tournament, but as the #1 seed, and then added two more wins to claim the OAC title for the first time since 2002.
Nice coaching change.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 13, 2017, 05:49:25 PM
From 2007 to 2016, Otterbein went 7-11-0, 7-7-3, 5-10-3, 3-14-2, 5-10-2, 6-8-3, 9-9-0, 10-9-0, 8-7-3 and 8-7-3. Otterbein hadn't qualified for an OAC tournament since 2003 despite its expansion to 6 teams in 2007. Otterbein hadn't made the NCAA tournament since their surprising run to the Final in 2002.
This year, with a new head coach in Jason Giffiths, the Cardinals go undefeated in OAC play to not only make the conference tournament, but as the #1 seed, and then added two more wins to claim the OAC title for the first time since 2002.
Nice coaching change.
No doubt the coach made adjustments. Some of the more important adjustments were to attitude and behavior: Otterbein was amongst the conference leaders in fouls and cards - not this year. I believe the coach's connections to the Classic Eagles will bear fruit in future recruiting also.
But I will wait to see how this team performs next year when those 9 seniors are gone . . .
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 12, 2017, 08:59:27 AM
Quote from: FR_Sam on November 12, 2017, 01:50:32 AM
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 12, 2017, 12:46:41 AM
Nice Cap got their first ever NCAA win, but for the 4th it 5th time this year they had to play against 14. God awful officiating - even the Dominican fans I spoke to after the game agreed. Lost track of the yellows - maybe 8??? Not a very poised effort by Cap - but they persevered and grinded it out.
Cap playing against 14??? Officiating was bad all around...missed two handballs in the box against Capital, who committed 27 FOULS!!! never took a second yellow yet the Dominican coach, received a second yellow while walking away!
I did say Dominican fans I spoke with after the agreed the officiating was horrible. Capital was whistled for 27 fouls - as to whether they "committed" 27 fouls - that's another story. Another example of a CR who felt he was more important to the game than the players.
One of the alleged handling incidents came off the player's chest - yes his arm was extended away from his body and probably looked like handling - I was on the fence behind the AR looking straight in on the play. AR confirmed it was off the chest.
the entire "hand-ball" debate is a very touchy subject. I have assessors that telll me 70% of handballs are mistakenly called. by rule the player must have INTENT in order to call it. even when I ref now I have parents screaming handball EVERY chance they get. and of course they don't know the actual rule. I could go on for days about parents. I even had one go ballistic bc I didn't call offsides on a CORNER KICK! but most hand balls are not supposed to be called but it's hard when you have parents and coaches complaining nonstop. i'm huge on letting them play until they get chippy and dirty.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 05:33:42 PM
the entire “hand-ball” debate is a very touchy subject. I have assessors that telll me 70% of handballs are mistakenly called. by rule the player must have INTENT in order to call it. even when I ref now I have parents screaming handball EVERY chance they get. and of course they don’t know the actual rule. I could go on for days about parents. I even had one go ballistic bc I didn’t call offsides on a CORNER KICK! but most hand balls are not supposed to be called but it’s hard when you have parents and coaches complaining nonstop. i’m huge on letting them play until they get chippy and dirty.
Not to get nit-picky, but this is probably my biggest pet peeve in soccer, and it's a common mistake at every level. The call is "offside", not "offsides".
Quote from: bestfancle on November 14, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 05:33:42 PM
the entire "hand-ball" debate is a very touchy subject. I have assessors that telll me 70% of handballs are mistakenly called. by rule the player must have INTENT in order to call it. even when I ref now I have parents screaming handball EVERY chance they get. and of course they don't know the actual rule. I could go on for days about parents. I even had one go ballistic bc I didn't call offsides on a CORNER KICK! but most hand balls are not supposed to be called but it's hard when you have parents and coaches complaining nonstop. i'm huge on letting them play until they get chippy and dirty.
I honestly don't know how some refs are so bad at judging offsides. I personally think I am very good at it but that also comes with playing so much. I enjoy reffing more than playing now haha plus the money is outrageous
Not to get nit-picky, but this is probably my biggest pet peeve in soccer, and it's a common mistake at every level. The call is "offside", not "offsides".
MOney is getting better and better for refs because there is such a shortage of them...
you're absolutely right, but i will admit it's VERY rare to find a good ref that knows the game more
than just by the book. it's not possible nor fair to the kids. some make it about themselves instead of letting the kids have fun. there are plenty out there that just show up for the money. I on the other hand try to help the kids and stay vocal with everyone. I started 5-6 months ago and was chosen to refNJ State Cup Finals and Semi finals. it was a great experience, and next season i will actually begin to ref D3 and Juco games. I had my license for this year but chose to coach instead.
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 07:53:23 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 14, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 05:33:42 PM
the entire "hand-ball" debate is a very touchy subject. I have assessors that telll me 70% of handballs are mistakenly called. by rule the player must have INTENT in order to call it. even when I ref now I have parents screaming handball EVERY chance they get. and of course they don't know the actual rule. I could go on for days about parents. I even had one go ballistic bc I didn't call offsides on a CORNER KICK! but most hand balls are not supposed to be called but it's hard when you have parents and coaches complaining nonstop. i'm huge on letting them play until they get chippy and dirty.
I honestly don't know how some refs are so bad at judging offsides. I personally think I am very good at it but that also comes with playing so much. I enjoy reffing more than playing now haha plus the money is outrageous
Not to get nit-picky, but this is probably my biggest pet peeve in soccer, and it's a common mistake at every level. The call is "offside", not "offsides".
Worst handling call this year.... Camden vs Stockton with 28 seconds left. You know that one all too well, firstplaceloser....
90% of officials f*ck up handling calls, and it's even worse in a two man system...
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 09:36:26 PM
you're absolutely right, but i will admit it's VERY rare to find a good ref that knows the game more
than just by the book. it's not possible nor fair to the kids. some make it about themselves instead of letting the kids have fun. there are plenty out there that just show up for the money. I on the other hand try to help the kids and stay vocal with everyone. I started 5-6 months ago and was chosen to refNJ State Cup Finals and Semi finals. it was a great experience, and next season i will actually begin to ref D3 and Juco games. I had my license for this year but chose to coach instead.
Being a good ref isn't by the book... You can know all the rules... Managing the players is how you manage the game... Get one or two guys on your side and you're golden. When you miss a call, tell me... Yo', I was in a bad position, I got that one wrong. Works wonders.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 15, 2017, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 07:53:23 PM
Quote from: bestfancle on November 14, 2017, 06:49:01 PM
Quote from: firstplaceloser on November 14, 2017, 05:33:42 PM
the entire "hand-ball" debate is a very touchy subject. I have assessors that telll me 70% of handballs are mistakenly called. by rule the player must have INTENT in order to call it. even when I ref now I have parents screaming handball EVERY chance they get. and of course they don't know the actual rule. I could go on for days about parents. I even had one go ballistic bc I didn't call offsides on a CORNER KICK! but most hand balls are not supposed to be called but it's hard when you have parents and coaches complaining nonstop. i'm huge on letting them play until they get chippy and dirty.
I honestly don't know how some refs are so bad at judging offsides. I personally think I am very good at it but that also comes with playing so much. I enjoy reffing more than playing now haha plus the money is outrageous
Not to get nit-picky, but this is probably my biggest pet peeve in soccer, and it's a common mistake at every level. The call is "offside", not "offsides".
Worst handling call this year.... Camden vs Stockton with 28 seconds left. You know that one all too well, firstplaceloser....
90% of officials f*ck up handling calls, and it's even worse in a two man system...
hahahaha oh yeah I remember that. to make that calll with 30 seconds left is BRAVE lol
Thinking about it the old school 2 man system seems like it takes some time to get used to it. I would think you need a good working relationship with the other ref as it basically is like having 2 refs on the field. Meaning 2 whistles not 1. So if 1 ref is calling the game one way and the other ref another then you really have a dysfunctional game going on.
Attached are the award winners for the Great Lakes. Also interesting to note that Griffiths from Otterbein, was Great Lakes Men's coach of the year! Well Done!
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Awards/Recipients/2017_United_Soccer_Coaches_NCAA_Division_III_Men_s_All-Great_Lakes_Region_Teams.aspx
JCU got it's two studs in, Kenyon had about four. Otterbein did well too. Even BW had its stud, Danny Ruple, make 3rd team as a sophomore.