Are you aware of any fitness requirements (i.e. 2 mile run in xx:xx) at the schools you have experience with? My HS freshman just received the requirements from the HS coach - 5:30 mile and 11:45 2 miles. I wasn't sure how that compared to college expectations.
Usually a 2 mile run should be under 12 but some are as low as 11:30. GK's are given plenty of leeway in that regard
Mr. Right hit it spot on. The norm tends to be 2 in 12 or 1 in 5ish. All depends on the coach and what they are looking for. There are other fitness tests that teams may do such as the "Beep Test." All are pretty standard in the soccer world.
2 miles can range anywhere from 11:30-12:00, or as Mr. Right said, 1 under 5. I've heard of 1 mile under 4:30 too. The beep test is pretty standard.
Quote from: oldonionbag on July 12, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
2 miles can range anywhere from 11:30-12:00, or as Mr. Right said, 1 under 5. I've heard of 1 mile under 4:30 too. The beep test is pretty standard.
Any college soccer player that can run a 4:30 mile should seriously consider taking up cross country . . .
Some schools will do a test consisting of a series of distances with a set interval between each, such as 2 miles in 12:00 minutes, followed by a 5 minute rest, followed by one mile in 6:00, followed by a 5 minute rest, followed by a 1/2 mile in 3:00. There is some merit to this, as soccer games consist of intervals of running and resting.
The best coaches use these tests to gauge the fitness of individual players at the start of preseason, not to punish them if they don't make the times.
Many teams also test for speed, such as 40 yard dash times, and some sort of shuttle run.
Quote from: oldonionbag on July 12, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
2 miles can range anywhere from 11:30-12:00, or as Mr. Right said, 1 under 5. I've heard of 1 mile under 4:30 too. The beep test is pretty standard.
Forgive my skepticism, but I'd like to see some evidence that any college use a 4:30 mile as a standard in soccer. I'd bet no one does.
Twenty years ago under Layton Shoemaker, Messiah had a standard of 2 miles in 12 minutes. Under Brandt it was 1 mile in 5 minutes, which most players reached. As far as I know, just one player managed to go a little under 4:40, namely, the AA defender and POY, J D Binger. I don't claim that the Falcons are the fittest team in D3, but surely they are among the fittest teams, despite the fact that their liberal substitution practice would suggest otherwise. Many players have said that they almost never play a team with comparable fitness--and they are in the best position to make such a comparison.
I agree with the comment above that any soccer player who can break 4:30 ought to be running XC. That's really fast. I was a XC runner in HS and college, not a soccer player, so I understand what it takes to go under 4:30, even today when lots of HS runners can go under 4:20. You can't just go out and run (say) 4:28, without specifically training to do that. Running for conditioning, as soccer players do (and I've always had much respect for their commitment to high levels of conditioning, which are probably higher than any other sport other than XC), won't get you under 4:30. To do that, a lot of interval work is necessary--a kind of training that doesn't seem as relevant for soccer.
Granted, there will on rare occasions be soccer players who can go that fast, but it will be rare unless they also run middle or long distances competitively. A few years ago there was a PA HS player who made the state final in 1600 meters, and I think he was right around 4:20. In my own case, a long time ago when 4:30 might get you to the state finals, I finished one place ahead of a soccer player in the mile at the county championships, but (again) he trained for the mile and not just for soccer. He was very good at both and played collegiately at Penn.
Certainly times are much faster today, but 4:30 is still really fast for anyone who isn't specifically training to do that. I'd bet the ranch that the vast majority of World Cup players can't run 4:30 without training specifically for it--and many still probably couldn't break 4:30 if they did train for it. Let me offer some support for that opinion from this event, the 1500 meters for the decathlon at this year's NCAA D1 championships: http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/track-field/results/d1/outdoor17/final/041-0_compiled.htm. Remember: this event is about 100 meters shorter than a mile, so to run 4:30 in the mile you would be running somewhere around 4:13 for 1500 meters.
I think we can assume that (a) all of these men are top college athletes, comparable in that regard to professional soccer players, not to nearly all D3 soccer players; (b) they do train to run as fast as they can in 1500 meters, they don't just run for conditioning; and (c) they run as fast as they can on that day, with everything they have left after two days of competition that does NOT include any other race longer than 400 meters (and there isn't a separate qualifying heat either). Yes, they might knock off a few seconds if they were just running one mile and not anything else, but (again) these men are in top shape and this is the big kahuna so they do their best.
Draw your own conclusions.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on July 12, 2017, 05:04:07 PM
Quote from: oldonionbag on July 12, 2017, 04:29:51 PM
2 miles can range anywhere from 11:30-12:00, or as Mr. Right said, 1 under 5. I've heard of 1 mile under 4:30 too. The beep test is pretty standard.
Any college soccer player that can run a 4:30 mile should seriously consider taking up cross country . . .
Exactly. 4:30 is plain crazy.
Such a common sight to see coaches blow players up with a Cooper test, then sprints on consecutive days. Absolutely useless, except for causing muscular injuries. And none of this stuff remotely helps the player who cannot recover and orient himself defensively or move well enough be an effective part of a simple attacking pattern.
I've always liked running a group thru Scottish 18s as a nice gauge of fitness. It's soccer-type running, and even though it's a go-to-failure exercise, it's not terribly hard on leg muscles and joints.
I remember my h.s. coach laughing at a 5:30 mile time. He never cared what we could run a mile in. He cared we could do those jog sprints around the field. 50 yard sprint, 50 yard jog, ending width sprint, 50 yard jog, 50 yard sprint, ending width jog. Over and over for 20 or 30 minutes. All defenders together, all midfielders together, all forwards together. Your group got caught, you sprinted until you were back in place. I hated those practices. I don't think he even cared about speed too much. I don't know how many times he told me and others being slow just meant I had to be smarter. Coach Piranian was honest with me at W&L 21 years ago. I think he realized I was unlikely to be smart enough to make up for my lack of speed at the D3 level...
I was All-Conference in cross-country in high school, and my best mile time was 4:42. Granted, this was in Maine (not the most competitive running state), and I was also better at longer distances than middle distance events like the mile – 16:15 for 5K and 34:39 for 10K, which percentile-wise are much better than a 4:42 mile – but my point is that you have to be blessed with some serious natural talent to drop a 4:30 unless you're running somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 miles per week. I grew up with a kid who was a soccer player and stumbled into track (he ran a 4:15 as a senior in high school) and then ended up running XC and track at Dartmouth, but he was very much the exception rather than the norm.
On that note, Tobias Muellers ran a 48 second 400 at the NESCAC outdoor track championships, which was good for second in the conference, so I imagine he might be able to come close because that is some insane leg speed. That said, I highly doubt that a coach would set a 4:30 benchmark for his (or her) D3 program – 5:00 is plausible, and I'd say that 12:00 for 2 miles is probably more likely.
According to "The Messiah Method" (Michael Zigarelli), the standard for the Messiah team is the 5:00 minute mile. With about three quarters of the players making it and the others close behind. Also, it appears that no Messiah player has ever achieved the 4:30 mark. I agree, there isn't a D3 program in the country achieving 4:30 -- not one.
Teams have begun to get away from timed mile or 2 mile runs. Beep tests are becoming most prevalent amongst programs as a way to assess fitness.
In regards to teams and rest and recovery, you would be very surprised how conscious coaches are now. I know programs that barely have starters train the day after a game and will never have their core 16 or 17 players do fitness during the season.
No one can truly grasp this topic, unless.. as was said before you have attempted to run 2 miles in 12 minutes.
Sure it sounds easy, did to me as a freshman... how bad could it be.
I will say that as a freshman I beat the entire team... after the first lap that is.
Then there were 7 laps to go.
Half way through the second lap it suddenly hit me that this would end up harder than I thought.
To be honest I was not sure I finished... so ended my first day as a college soccer player.
I never broke that barrier as hard as I tried, got a 12:15 junior year which is the fittest I have been my entire life.
430 mile is insane.
Actually if you can do a 430 mile, I would say you are in the wrong field and you should spend all your time on a track!!!
The best part of the 2 mile test is to see how your Frosh perform. They are usually not quite as prepared as returning players and you can tell who has been slacking a bit or who was really preparing for the test. As a Frosh it would behoove you to run a fantastic 2 mile as that can impress the coach right away and if they can keep up with the returners in terms of skill, they will get a solid chance to make the team and get some minutes. On the flip, if a player is coming in as one of your top recruits and runs a poor 2 mile it might take them a week or 2 to get up to speed fitness wise and will not see the field until then.
Mr. Right as usual is right in focusing on the two mile. Both in high school and in college soccer programs a sub 12 minute two mile is one of the primary litmus tests. I have seen hundreds of players run two miles, both high school and college, and only one participant ever ran a sub 11, and he didn't make the starting XI. A 4:30 mile for a soccer player is the proverbial unicorn. Schools as well as the National Team have trended toward interval tests. The Stanford summer fitness guide with target times can be found at http://froeberg.com/soccerunited/stanfordfitness.pdf.
How about the D3 National Champion 2 of the past 3 years? Anyone know what Tufts does?
Here's Haverford's summer running regimen. http://www.haverfordathletics.com/Men-s_Soccer_Summer_Runs.pdf Reading between the lines they are looking for players to come in and run a sub 12 two mile. Haverford is a top notch D3 program.
Quote from: blooter442 on July 12, 2017, 11:09:29 PM
On that note, Tobias Muellers ran a 48 second 400 at the NESCAC outdoor track championships, which was good for second in the conference, so I imagine he might be able to come close because that is some insane leg speed. That said, I highly doubt that a coach would set a 4:30 benchmark for his (or her) D3 program – 5:00 is plausible, and I'd say that 12:00 for 2 miles is probably more likely.
Muellers is a terrific athlete. He just missed winning the D3 title in the decathlon, making him unquestionably the best athlete in D3 soccer and probably all of college soccer. Messiah had an even better decathlete once, a man who won the open decathlon (all divisions) at the Penn Relays and later qualified for the Olympic trials in that event. His name is Chris Boyles, and he was the GK on the first Falcon national champions in 2000.
Muellers runs 48 in the 400 meters, and he won that race in the D3 decathlon. The D1 decathletes are even faster in the 400: http://www.ncaa.com/sites/default/files/external/track-field/results/d1/outdoor17/final/041-5_compiled.htm
Muellers also ran a PR of 4:28 in the 1500. My hat's off to him, but that translates to about 4:45 in the mile. No evidence here that he would go under 4:30 without doing much more focused workouts, and maybe he could get there. We won't know without more evidence.
I was nowhere nearly as fast as the best decathletes in D3 or D1. I never got close to 50 seconds for the quarter mile, even though in HS I sometimes anchored the 4x440 relay when our fastest half miler (who won the state meet) was unable to do that for some reason. I never trained for that race, and perhaps I could have gotten down near 50 seconds--but we'll never know, and I just don't believe I'd have gone under 50 in any circumstances. But, I'd have beaten every one of the decathletes at the mile, b/c that's what I focused on. It's all about the workouts.
I know a few milers who would have beaten all of the D1 decathletes at 400 meters. Such people are immensely talented, far beyond anyone who belongs in this conversation. I don't know Jim Ryun, but in HS in the 1960s he ran 3:59 and then at 19 set the world record in the mile at 3:51. He anchored Kansas' 4x440 relay and consistently ran 46-47. Someone I do know (now a famous physicist who also wrote a book about world records) once had a chance to train with Henry Rono, the greatest middle distance runner in the world in his heyday. They ran a workout of 4x400 meters in 55 seconds with very short rests. Sounds unbelievable, but it's true. Today the world record in the mile is equivalent to running 4x400 under 56, without stopping. I just can't imagine that, but it's a fact.
All this just reinforces the point that you don't run 4:30 without aiming to do it, or at least without training specifically for middle distance running or longer.
I think we can now all reasonably conclude that the original reference to 4:30 was simply an error, with 5:30 almost certainly being was meant. All of the replies here strongly suggest that even 5:00 would not be any kind of requirement for a D3 soccer team, and only a tiny percentage of even strong D3 players would approach or break 5:00.
I've coached one kid in 20 years who got close to 5:00. Also a 400, 800m guy. Absolute garbage player. Just useless.
Quote from: Clotpoll on July 14, 2017, 07:07:59 PM
I've coached one kid in 20 years who got close to 5:00. Also a 400, 800m guy. Absolute garbage player. Just useless.
Yes, ability to run a 5:00 mile has nothing to do with being a good football player . . .
Agreed with all of the above. As a lifelong Nordic skier and runner now in my early 60s, and a fan and frequent spectator of soccer matches, I have some perspective on fitness requirements, running times, etc.
A 2-mile in 12 minutes is probably a reasonable goal for college soccer players. That would be a goal, not a hard requirement. There will be some athletes who can't hit that mark even at their fittest, but they can still be strong, skilled and effective players on the pitch.
When my son played for Brown, they had a "requirement" of 3 miles in 18 minutes. That distance is a bit long in my opinion. Needless to say, many of the athletes couldn't hit that mark, but they ran it 3 times spread out during preseason and even in-season as a general gauge of fitness and ongoing dedication.
A 4:30 mile is a quality mile for most good high school track runners in the modern world. Very few soccer players would come close to that mark, and it wouldn't be a reliable indicator of their performance on the pitch anyway.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on July 14, 2017, 07:25:05 PM
Quote from: Clotpoll on July 14, 2017, 07:07:59 PM
I've coached one kid in 20 years who got close to 5:00. Also a 400, 800m guy. Absolute garbage player. Just useless.
Yes, ability to run a 5:00 mile has nothing to do with being a good football player . . .
I might agree that the ability to run a 5:00 mile may not make you a good soccer player..but I think serious pre-season training to try to achieve a 5:00 mile will make you a better soccer player (particularly in terms of fitness but also in terms of mental toughness and knowing just how far you can push your body). And I think we all can agree that fitness is a key element in D3 soccer.
I have two sons playing for two different D3 schools. For one school a 5-minute mile is a key target. Since he will be a freshman I can't comment yet on how many on the team achieve that goal, but I can say that he's working hard to get there and he is very close. For the other school, two miles in 12 minutes or under is the target. My son on that team, who will be a junior, says he fully expects everyone to reach that goal. His personal goal is two miles in under 11 minutes.
Quote from: truenorth on July 15, 2017, 08:17:58 AM
Agreed with all of the above. As a lifelong Nordic skier and runner now in my early 60s, and a fan and frequent spectator of soccer matches, I have some perspective on fitness requirements, running times, etc.
A 2-mile in 12 minutes is probably a reasonable goal for college soccer players. That would be a goal, not a hard requirement. There will be some athletes who can't hit that mark even at their fittest, but they can still be strong, skilled and effective players on the pitch.
When my son played for Brown, they had a "requirement" of 3 miles in 18 minutes. That distance is a bit long in my opinion. Needless to say, many of the athletes couldn't hit that mark, but they ran it 3 times spread out during preseason and even in-season as a general gauge of fitness and ongoing dedication.
A 4:30 mile is a quality mile for most good high school track runners in the modern world. Very few soccer players would come close to that mark, and it wouldn't be a reliable indicator of their performance on the pitch anyway.
3 miles in 18 minutes is highest standard for a Marine Corps officer fitness test. You get docked points for every 10 seconds slower than 3 in 18. Seems like a rather excessive distance for a D3 soccer fitness program.
Yes, the 3 miles in 18 minute requirement was at Brown, which is a D1 program. As I mentioned in my initial post, I agree that 3 miles is an excessive distance for any program at any level.
Conn college does 2.5 miles in less than 15. A kid there has broken 13:45. Wouldn't surprise me if The coach brought that with him from Brown.
Rowan 5 miles 32 minutes.
Why would any coach require 5 miles in 32 minutes. Soccer is a series of sprints and clearly you need to know how to pace yourself properly but this does not seem to be the right way to go about it.
Agreed. As an aging distance runner, I can tell you that soccer is much more comparable to an interval workout than a steady state distance workout. At the professional level, outside backs and box-to-box midfielders can cover up to 10K during the course of a 90 minute game...but they are doing that in 40-80 meter sprints...
Having the aerobic fitness to run 5 miles in 32 minutes does not directly translate into the stop/start nature of soccer on the pitch. If I were a soccer coach, I'd be more interested in seeing 400M, 800M and 1,500 M times...with a 2 to 2.5 mile timed run being the max I would want to see...
Quote from: franklyspeaking on August 02, 2017, 01:15:40 PM
Why would any coach require 5 miles in 32 minutes. Soccer is a series of sprints and clearly you need to know how to pace yourself properly but this does not seem to be the right way to go about it.
5 miles in 32 minutes makes as much sense as 1 mile in 4:30. Both aren't related to the type of fitness required for soccer.