http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another
Brutal. Penn State-Harrisburg became the second program in as many weeks to announce plans to leave the Capital Athletic Conference, as the school announced it was returning to the North Eastern Athletic Conference starting with the 2019-20 season. The moves leave just six full member schools in the CAC for the fall of 2019: Christopher Newport, Mary Washington, St. Mary's (Md.), Salisbury, Southern Virginia and York (Pa.). Barring the addition of new members, the CAC would lose automatic bids in all NCAA Division III sports for the 2021-22 season.
Quote from: EB2319 on July 19, 2018, 04:46:49 PM
http://www.d3sports.com/notables/2018/07/cac-loses-another
Brutal. Penn State-Harrisburg became the second program in as many weeks to announce plans to leave the Capital Athletic Conference, as the school announced it was returning to the North Eastern Athletic Conference starting with the 2019-20 season. The moves leave just six full member schools in the CAC for the fall of 2019: Christopher Newport, Mary Washington, St. Mary's (Md.), Salisbury, Southern Virginia and York (Pa.). Barring the addition of new members, the CAC would lose automatic bids in all NCAA Division III sports for the 2021-22 season.
This appears to put the conference at a tipping point, where they either need to recruit some schools off of neighboring conferences (e.g. Landmark, Centenial, MAC-C, ODAC) or face extinction due to the remaining schools abandoning the conference. The CAC has also lost its geographic center. With the recent departure of Marymount, there isn't a single school within the DC beltway, and only St. Mary's and Mary Washington are on the fringe of the capital area. In particular this will leave York geographically isolated, and despite being a founding member, I can't imagine why they would want to hang on, versus trying to find a home in the Landmark or Commonwealth conferences.
I imagine this also adds a recruiting negative for coaches in the remaining schools, given the potential loss of NCAA AQs. On the plus side, if Frostburg gets accepted there will be a D-II soccer option in Maryland, for those that want that option. I know a number of Maryland players that have gone to play D-II soccer at PA and WV schools, who might have liked to have an option in Maryland.
I also have to wonder how much Christopher Newport's success has been a factor in the exodus of some schools out of the conference. Looking at the CAC website, since joining in 2013, they have won the following number of championships out of a total of 21 mens/womens sports:
2013/14: 6/21
2014/15: 7/21
2015/16: 9/21
2016/17: 12/21
2017/18: 10/21
Kudos to CNU for their success in a wide range of sports, though Salisbury still dominates in Lacrosse, and UMW in swimming and for the most part, tennis. It is hard to say how much CNU's success has played into the exodus, but when one school has won on-average half the total conference championships over the last three years, I could see it being a negative for recruiting new schools into the CAC.
As one who has been following, covering, and diving in deep on the CAC and it's future for several years now, a couple of things of note (based a lot on the last post):
- The conference isn't going to get any teams from the Landmark, Centennial, Commonwealth, or ODAC. Almost NONE of the schools in those conferences are interested in joining a conference with Salisbury, Christopher Newport, Mary Washington, nor St. Mary's for starters. Heck, even York is a department institutions don't want to deal with (more in a moment).
- As far as becoming extinct, I don't think the CAC dies, actually. It just may not have AQs and such, but the four or five listed above aren't going to get INTO conferences, either. They will need a conference for a lot of other reasons people don't think about (awards and NCAA presence) and they aren't going to be joining conferences as individuals.
- I am not sure where one thinks the CAC's geographical center really was located. I understand many think it was DC, but I never felt that way. As one who played in the conference (in soccer no less), DC just happened to have a couple of schools... but I have always thought the CAC was a "Mid-Atlantic" conference... not a "Washington, DC" conference. Furthermore, conferences have to change and adjust and "geographic centers" change all the time. ODAC has spread out. Some don't, but it isn't new to be changing geographically. Ask the NESCAC, NAC, and others. Also, Salisbury (founding member) and CNU are further from DC than Mary Wash or St. Mary's.
- York has a similar problem the rest do... where are they going to go? I can't tell you how many conversations I've had that make York seem an unwanted guest. People point to lower tuition rates and the like which basically would "eliminate" the Centennial, Landmark, AEC, CSAC, and others. York isn't going to want to go into the NEAC, either. The only conference I could see fitting with YCP and reverse is the MAC (Commonwealth, most likely, though not a great balance option). I think the MAC might be interested (especially per other information I've learned about the conference), but it is not a slam dunk. Yes, YCP is most likely looking... but finding a partner is not going to be easy. (BTW, York has been on the extreme geographically, along with Frostburg, since the beginning; nothing new there.)
- Not sure how it will affect recruiting. While they will lose AQs, you could almost take the Pool Bs and make then AQs in most sports. Most of these schools have programs competing for national championships anyway... not sure that changes in a non-AQ situation. The biggest challenge will be scheduling more than anything.
- I am not sure CNU's presence is the conference is the tipping point. Remember, Catholic and Goucher left the CAC well before CNU was a conference member. I also know other schools like Marymount had a chance to leave around the same time as CUA and GOU and chose not to. Hood and Stevenson came and went prior to CNU being in the conference as well. It isn't like the "public v private" situation hasn't been around for quite some time. CNU may have pushed some schools to make the decision, but those same schools voted to accept CNU as well. I will add, while CNU won the titles it would be worth looking at who finished second and third and who else got NCAA bids ... that tells more of the story than just CNU winning the titles.
The CAC has been trying to solve the problem. I know they have looked south and north. They aren't getting anywhere, unfortunately. To the south is the USA South. It is pretty well known that the northern side of that conference will probably split off if they get the numbers together. That same group, though, isn't interested in CNU since they wanted them out of the USAS back when CNU left. To the north has been schools like Stevens - but the Ducks just announced they are joining the MAC Freedom, so they are off the list of options.
Sadly, there aren't a lot of other options. I think there are some in NJ, but I am not sure it can get pulled off. I think there are options in PA, but I don't think the CAC can convince some schools to come especially now that Harrisburg is out of the conference.
One thing I am quite confident in: Southern Virginia will be leaving as well. They will most likely join whatever USA-South off-shoot is created. YCP is the other one to watch. As mentioned, YCP may leave for the MAC, though still not absolutely sure. That leaves CNU, SAL, SMC, & UMW ... and I don't think there are any other conferences who would want any of those members necessarily (btw, include the size of a conference in one's thinking; the ODAC is LARGE... it isn't going to want to get larger).
One other note for those who do mention it on the boards (other boards), the NJAC isn't an option to obsorb the CAC members - the NJAC bylaws restrict full membership to New Jersey state schools only (associate members is a wide open option).
There is ONE absolutely crazy idea that could save the CAC, or at least the core four, but that one idea requires an earthquake like shift in a regional conference and I'm not convinced that's going to happen at least in the very near future.
York would make a good fit in the MAC Commonwealth. Regarding CNU, their football team already plays in the NJAC and their soccer team did come up north to play Rowan and Rutgers-Camden last year. Is there a drawback to being an associate member, rather than a full member? As for the ODAC, perhaps some schools would leave in favor of joining the USA South off-shoot (should it form), thus opening up spots for someone like MWU, CNU, Salisbury?
Quote from: EB2319 on August 13, 2018, 02:05:56 PM
York would make a good fit in the MAC Commonwealth. Regarding CNU, their football team already plays in the NJAC and their soccer team did come up north to play Rowan and Rutgers-Camden last year. Is there a drawback to being an associate member, rather than a full member? As for the ODAC, perhaps some schools would leave in favor of joining the USA South off-shoot (should it form), thus opening up spots for someone like MWU, CNU, Salisbury?
Yes - YCP may be a good fit, but let's be honest... the Commonwealth may be getting a bit "too good." I just mean that in the sense of giving everyone a chance. Feels a little heavily weighted and adding YCP could make it worse. Not sure the right solution. We shall see. The question becomes, how many MAC schools feel YCP is really a state college and don't want to have anything to do with them. I hope they don't take that tactic.
Yes, CNU and Salisbury play football as associate members in the NJAC, but that's it. As associate members, they don't have any say in the future of the conference. They basically only have a vote in their individual sports - not the conference as a whole.
As for their soccer team, that is out of conference scheduling... those schools agreed to those games. That doesn't mean the NJAC is interested in having CNU (or Salisbury, or others) as part of the conference as a full member. It also would take the NJAC changing it's by-laws to allow out of state schools... which isn't going to happen.
As for the ODAC, don't bet on any of them leaving for the USA South offshoot. There is no reason for them to do it. First off, remember Ferrum just left the USA South for the ODAC. Secondly, the ODAC has a better football conference, I don't see enough football schools leaving the ODAC for a conference created with Averett, NC Wesleyan, and others. I just don't see any ODAC schools interested in joining those USA South schools even if it is a new conference. Then your idea includes UMW, CNU, or Salisbury going into the ODAC - I don't see that necessarily happening. I don't see schools like Washington and Lee being all that enthusiastic to have state schools suddenly in the mix for a LOT of reasons.
To add to my previous comment, I think SMC is the one school in that core four that has a decent chance of moving to another conference, but like YCP the choices are limited.
Thanks for your expert insight Dave but jeez, as a parent of a CAC athlete, I was hoping for someone to paint a little rosier picture than my own pessimistic view! :-\ If the conference drifts geographically south, that would seem to put even more pressure on the northern contingent to bail out. York's issue isn't just distance, but traffic. Every conference away game will be a trip around Baltimore and Washington. On a weekday, they are looking at miserable traffic in at least one direction, and Saturdays are often no cakewalk either. For Salisbury and St. Mary's, both public colleges, the overwhelming majority of their athletes are from Maryland (maybe not so much in lacrosse at Salisbury). If I am a parent of a recruit, hearing that most conference away games are going to be a 4+ hour drive would certainly go in the negative column. Granted, a diligent coach and AD can try to balance this out to a degree in their OOC schedule. St. Mary's is peculiar in being a small LAC, yet public. They would appear to be a good fit in the Centennial or Landmark based on size and academics, but I wonder if those conferences would even allow a public college in their by-laws, yet alone seriously entertain accepting one into their ranks. Anyhow, thanks again for your insights, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Quote from: TwoLeftFeet on August 13, 2018, 05:28:40 PM
Thanks for your expert insight Dave but jeez, as a parent of a CAC athlete, I was hoping for someone to paint a little rosier picture than my own pessimistic view! :-\ If the conference drifts geographically south, that would seem to put even more pressure on the northern contingent to bail out. York's issue isn't just distance, but traffic. Every conference away game will be a trip around Baltimore and Washington. On a weekday, they are looking at miserable traffic in at least one direction, and Saturdays are often no cakewalk either. For Salisbury and St. Mary's, both public colleges, the overwhelming majority of their athletes are from Maryland (maybe not so much in lacrosse at Salisbury). If I am a parent of a recruit, hearing that most conference away games are going to be a 4+ hour drive would certainly go in the negative column. Granted, a diligent coach and AD can try to balance this out to a degree in their OOC schedule. St. Mary's is peculiar in being a small LAC, yet public. They would appear to be a good fit in the Centennial or Landmark based on size and academics, but I wonder if those conferences would even allow a public college in their by-laws, yet alone seriously entertain accepting one into their ranks. Anyhow, thanks again for your insights, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I am sorry I couldn't be rosier... I wish I could. Remember, I'm a CAC guy. I played soccer for Goucher in the CAC during my collegiate career (plus my involvement with many other aspects of the athletic department and the CAC). I don't want the CAC to disappear and I would hope it would be strong. I am also one who absolutely disagrees with the notion that leaving a conference due to state schools' presence and the challenge of recruiting against them is ... bollocks. Changing conferences doesn't suddenly change the physical location of schools.
But I digress...
Yes, York's location per travel has always been a challenge, but first off ... they have dealt with it in the past and in some ways there are solid options to get around Baltimore and DC without dealing with the Beltways (or at least BOTH). I know them well from my own personal travels for work in this region. I would argue that usually the traffic and travel challenges are part of the conversation as to when teams travel to locations and thus the scheduling for conference games is handled so that the longer and tougher trips are on weekends and the shorter, less difficult trips are on the weekdays. However, each sport is different with these parameters.
As for public and private schools... most of what is left of the CAC are publics, but with their own unique attributes. Salisbury University is a traditional public school. Christopher Newport, St. Mary's, and Mary Washington are all honors (liberal arts) public college. While York College is a private college, it acts in much the same way as CNU, SMC, and UMW in it's tuition and academics (thus sometimes the confusion about YCP for many). That said, YCP and Southern Virginia are the privates left in the CAC.
I agree and can understand how travel could be a negative with recruiting. That said, I would contend that it is part of the equation whether it be conference or non-conference. Teams have to travel to play games especially if they want to be competitive on the national scale. If any recruit is looking at the institutions in the CAC, but don't want to have long travel as part of the equation ... they aren't recruits that will work out. That is the case whether it is a strong 8-10 member conference or one struggling to stay at five or six members currently. These teams travel long distances anyway in non-conference play in an effort to be national contenders. And while you may feel the coach and AD can balance it out in their OOC scheduling, I would argue it depends on the sport. In soccer, there are plenty of solid competition short drives away ... but not in all sports and sometimes even in sports where Mid-Atlantic competition is strong ... playing in a different region is a strong way to better the position of a program.
(On a side note, with web streaming abilities of most schools and departments now, travel isn't a big a deal as it used to be for those outside of the team.)
SMC could be a good fit in the Landmark, I would think. Maybe the Centennial, but I am not sure the CC is interested. That is why I mentioned I think they may be able to find an exit strategy better than most. As for the by-laws of conferences, I am not aware of any in the Mid-Atlantic that preclude state schools. I would have to triple-check on the MAC, though, to be honest. The real challenge isn't the by-laws, it's the egos and attitudes of presidents, ADs, and coaches in those regions who can't see the bigger pictures behind their own misconceptions and fragility.
I am interested to see how this all plays out as well. Who knows, maybe there are some big pieces that will shift in the future and suddenly the CAC will be even stronger. It could happen as fast as the CAC ended up in their current situation. One thing I have learned in all these years ... there is always something I didn't see coming ... around the corner. :)
The CAC won't lose their AQ until 2021-2022. Does that give them 4 years to find enough new members and keep their AQ, or is the thought it will self-destruct prior?
ODAC bylaws preclude public institutions. That is not going to change. So looking to the ODAC is really only an option for SVa, who is becoming an associate member for football in for the 2019 season. But I don't think the ODAC has any interest in them becoming a full-time member. Some sports in the conference are already too big. As stated above, SVa must be hoping for a USASAC split.
Well, necessity is the mother of invention. Hopefully, over time things will work out for the best for each of the remaining members, in whatever form that takes place.
Kudos for great reporting, Dave. Thank you for the information and the opinions.
I agree that YCP joining the MAC Commonwealth makes some sense, and it will be interesting to see how it shakes out if they formally seek inclusion (perhaps they have already done so). I don't know how they are perceived by the conference presidents. On paper, YCP is one of the oldest colleges in the USA, far older (to the best of my knowledge) than any other MAC school, yet unlike the NESCACs and the Centennial schools, they aren't an "elite" academic school. They were not a 4-year college until (I think) the 1960s, which is even later than Messiah's similar transformation. Their endowment is smallish considering the size of the student body, yet tuition on paper (ignoring financial aid generated by gifts and the endowment) is a great deal smaller than a typical MAC school. Former president Robert V. Iosue (who retired in 1991) deliberately kept tuition lower than it probably should be, by getting more teaching from faculty than most MAC schools expect. (Incidentally, Grove City College has a similar approach, but their endowment per student is much higher. They offer absolutely minimal financial aid, apart from a tiny number of full scholarships in engineering, but discount the sticker price to remain attractive to prospective students.)
So, they could be seen as an outlier by MAC presidents.
Athletically and geographically, however, they seem a natural fit for the Commonwealth. I take your point about raising the level of competition (I assume you were referring to soccer, not necessarily other sports), but speaking narrowly as a Falcon fan I would like to see that happen. The Falcons play York nearly every year anyway, so the only differences would be that the results matter more for seeding in the conference playoffs--not to mention the playoffs themselves. I would anticipate that York might replace another playoff team most years, and that wouldn't hurt. Now that Etown is out of the MAC, it would be great to see join Messiah and Lycoming in the top tier. Lately York hasn't been at that level, obviously, but (as you said) there will always be things you don't see coming. Generally speaking, the Commonwealth has not been one of the top conferences in soccer on a national level. Adding a resurgent York (two contingent factors there) wouldn't hurt.
I also see your point about perhaps--perhaps--SMC joining the Landmark. However, that would make for some awfully long road trips, with Scranton and Drew and even Juniata, which is in the middle of nowhere about two hours NW of Messiah. My goodness, I've been to SMC and you almost can't get there from here (near Harrisburg). It takes maybe 4 1/2 hours if the DC traffic isn't terrible (which it usually is). There simply is no easy way to do it. If I'm the AD at Scranton, I'm not enthused about that prospect.
I agree that the Centennial is not realistic for them at all.
Quote from: EB2319 on August 14, 2018, 10:37:32 AM
The CAC won't lose their AQ until 2021-2022. Does that give them 4 years to find enough new members and keep their AQ, or is the thought it will self-destruct prior?
Depends on the sport (some are already in trouble). I believe your four year time line is too long... I think it is three years? Frostburg and Harrisburg are gone after this season, thus putting the CAC on the clock starting in 2019-20... meaning 2020-21 will be the last season of the AQ for soccer - off the top of my head.
So essentially, it gives them three years to find the right numbers to keep their AQ. I do NOT think the CAC will disappear. Because four of the schools are going to have trouble finding a home, they might as well stay together. Not having AQs doesn't mean the conference cannot exist (there are other needs for a conference).
Quote from: Falconer on August 15, 2018, 01:03:38 PM
Kudos for great reporting, Dave. Thank you for the information and the opinions.
I agree that YCP joining the MAC Commonwealth makes some sense, and it will be interesting to see how it shakes out if they formally seek inclusion (perhaps they have already done so). I don't know how they are perceived by the conference presidents. On paper, YCP is one of the oldest colleges in the USA, far older (to the best of my knowledge) than any other MAC school, yet unlike the NESCACs and the Centennial schools, they aren't an "elite" academic school. They were not a 4-year college until (I think) the 1960s, which is even later than Messiah's similar transformation. Their endowment is smallish considering the size of the student body, yet tuition on paper (ignoring financial aid generated by gifts and the endowment) is a great deal smaller than a typical MAC school. Former president Robert V. Iosue (who retired in 1991) deliberately kept tuition lower than it probably should be, by getting more teaching from faculty than most MAC schools expect. (Incidentally, Grove City College has a similar approach, but their endowment per student is much higher. They offer absolutely minimal financial aid, apart from a tiny number of full scholarships in engineering, but discount the sticker price to remain attractive to prospective students.)
So, they could be seen as an outlier by MAC presidents.
Athletically and geographically, however, they seem a natural fit for the Commonwealth. I take your point about raising the level of competition (I assume you were referring to soccer, not necessarily other sports), but speaking narrowly as a Falcon fan I would like to see that happen. The Falcons play York nearly every year anyway, so the only differences would be that the results matter more for seeding in the conference playoffs--not to mention the playoffs themselves. I would anticipate that York might replace another playoff team most years, and that wouldn't hurt. Now that Etown is out of the MAC, it would be great to see join Messiah and Lycoming in the top tier. Lately York hasn't been at that level, obviously, but (as you said) there will always be things you don't see coming. Generally speaking, the Commonwealth has not been one of the top conferences in soccer on a national level. Adding a resurgent York (two contingent factors there) wouldn't hurt.
I also see your point about perhaps--perhaps--SMC joining the Landmark. However, that would make for some awfully long road trips, with Scranton and Drew and even Juniata, which is in the middle of nowhere about two hours NW of Messiah. My goodness, I've been to SMC and you almost can't get there from here (near Harrisburg). It takes maybe 4 1/2 hours if the DC traffic isn't terrible (which it usually is). There simply is no easy way to do it. If I'm the AD at Scranton, I'm not enthused about that prospect.
I agree that the Centennial is not realistic for them at all.
Yes... sadly, some presidents have those egos I was referring to earlier that actually get in the way of solutions that make sense. I've said that publicly often. I understand where presidents come from, but sometimes their buddy-buddy systems or high-and-mighty thinking aren't what's best or the smartest idea ... it's just what works best for them (or boosts their self-inflated egos). Just ask around about how the Centennial suddenly had Bryn Mawr in the mix ... and can't get rid of them.
My point about York raising it's level of competition was across the board in general. YCP was pretty darn good in soccer when I was playing collegiate soccer - they weren't a favorite to play especially on their old field. The CAC back then was insane as well. But lacrosse(s) have improved, men's basketball is returning to the conversation, and other sports. Their facilities are top-notch and they should be commended for it.
Yes, tuitions are low, but college presidents (in particular) have to stop pretending that as big a deal as it looks on paper. By the time most privates are done discounting, granting, scholarship-ing, and couponing their tuitions the numbers are far closer across the board than they were when it started. Privates have more wiggle room (because their numbers are ridiculously took high to start with) where as state schools have no ability to adjust their tuitions per student ... and YCP being so low to begin with they don't have a ton of movement either (BTW, check out the stories this off season of how YCP has been dealing with a significant budget shortfall - it isn't pretty).
Now as for SMC ... first off, we have to start changing the conference. The landscape in this region is simple - you have to travel now to get to conference foes. SMC to Southern Virginia isn't that easy - you have to head north to head south. Salisbury to anyone on the western shore is a car accident away from disaster (I can tell you the story about the Salisbury v Stevenson NCAA men's lacrosse game that started three hours late because of it). That said, we need to discuss how people are traveling from Harrisburg to SMC if they are dealing with DC traffic ... because my trip from Baltimore County NEVER features DC traffic. The DC beltway should NEVER be the option heading to DC for the record.
But ... I disgress ... again.
If any of these teams want to save themselves or the conference, it is going to take dealing with travel. Interestingly, not once have I heard anyone leaving the CAC mention travel (Wesley's trips aren't easy)... though Stevens we all knew wanted to stop traveling to Buffalo (ironic considering they didn't want to be in the Landmark SMH). At least most of the trips for SMC would be on highways ... except that trip to Juniata. That just doesn't work for anyone. LOL
BTW - I consider the Scranton AD to be a friend ... I'll ask him. :)
As for the Centennial - they have never changed their membership in any way - up or down - since they were founded. I could see maybe one school leaving if they really feel it would be better ... and maybe eventually Bryn Mawr moved on ... but all of those ideas are a bit of a stretch.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 16, 2018, 10:27:39 PM
If any of these teams want to save themselves or the conference, it is going to take dealing with travel. Interestingly, not once have I heard anyone leaving the CAC mention travel (Wesley's trips aren't easy)... though Stevens we all knew wanted to stop traveling to Buffalo (ironic considering they didn't want to be in the Landmark SMH). At least most of the trips for SMC would be on highways ... except that trip to Juniata. That just doesn't work for anyone. LOL
I find Stevens move to MAC Freedom quite interesting. That school has hardly anything in common with Kings, Del Val, Wilkes, etc. The quotes from their coaches sums it up best:
- "This shift will undoubtedly provide our student-athletes with a much more balanced college experience. "
- "an underlying benefit to this move is the opportunity now afforded to our student-athletes to truly heighten their overall experience at Stevens by having additional time in their schedules to invest in other academic or extra-curricular areas, which will pay dividends to the entire campus community."
- "Time is a precious commodity, and this will enable our student-athletes to be better invested in design projects, group meetings and many campus activities enriching their time at Stevens. "
- " believe our student-athletes' quality of life just skyrocketed with this move. I believe this will allow our student-athletes to continue to have excellent success in their academics as they compete in a conference more regionally suitable.
The move makes the most logical sense... Stevens has been challenged ever since they backed out of the Landmark. Remember, they were there for all of a hot minute (plenty of stories as to why that happened). They were left with one choice at the time... Empire 8. However, that means a lot of trips to Buffalo and other further reaches of New York State.
They wanted out for a lot of the reasons you read in the last post, and read between the lines. They needed shorter trips and such.
MAC Freedom makes the most sense. Furthermore, it makes the MAC Freedom a better conference in a lot of ways instead of it being less than it's sister, Commonwealth, in a lot of sports.
I thought Stevens could end up in one other conference ... but the travel alone, thus allowing their students to be on campus or in the classroom more, makes the Freedom pretty much the only logical choice. Skyline and other conferences aren't competitive enough nor do those conferences want a school like Stevens.
BTW - remember the MAC is all private institutions. They have more in common than it may seem from the outside.
I don't know the history of Stevens in the Landamrk, but I assume there' some bad blood? From an academic standpoint, Stevens to the Freedom makes no sense, regardless of them all being private institutions.
Quote from: EB2319 on August 21, 2018, 03:50:16 PM
I don't know the history of Stevens in the Landamrk, but I assume there' some bad blood? From an academic standpoint, Stevens to the Freedom makes no sense, regardless of them all being private institutions.
Well to be honest... Stevens is a tough fit in a LOT of conferences ... they just don't have a lot of choices. But I don't think they are a stretch too much from the Freedom - again, on paper looks different than reality. All conferences have their extremes to some extent, even the UAA. FDU Florham, DeSales, and others are closer to Stevens if the direction you are referring. Maybe they don't seem to fit a Wilkes or DVU, but I have also found that sometimes I discover schools like a Wilkes are far grander academically than I even knew in the past. But, I don't want to speak for schools too much.
Their history in the Landmark is simple: they were a founding member along with Catholic, Drew, Goucher, Juniata, Moravian, Susquehanna, and USMMA. The conference formed and suddenly Stevens left. There are stories out there, I cannot share what I know (sorry). Then suddenly they were in the Empire 8... the Landmark then invited Scranton to round out the eight.
I remember it as the Landmark formed, Stevens was suddenly out just days later, and 24 hours after leaving was in the Empire 8 ... but my memory of the timing has gotten fuzzy.
Just heard that York is leaving the CAC for the MAC-Commonwealth, beginning in 2020-21. Although I expected this, it's still a big ouch. Anyone aware of any other potential transfers in or out, or could this be the final nail in the coffin for the CAC?
https://ycp.prestosports.com/sports/generalreleases/York_MAC_Announcement (https://ycp.prestosports.com/sports/generalreleases/York_MAC_Announcement)
The CAC was already losing AQ status when PSU-Harrisburg and Frostburg announced they were leaving after this year. With York bolting, that leaves 5 schools. I'm most interested to see what happens to CNU and UMW, both traditionally very good programs. Also curious to see if this shakes up the MAC, with some teams moving from the Commonwealth into the Freedom.
To be clear ... the CAC won't lose that AQ for two seasons of membership below seven. They will have the AQ for 2019 and 2020 at the very least.
SOUTH ATLANTIC REGION - NCAA REGIONAL RANKINGS - October 30, 2019
Rank
|
School | . Div. III .
Record | . Div. III .
SOS |
. R-v-R .
| . Overall .
Record | . Prev. .
Rank |
1. | Washington and Lee | 11-2-3 | 0.605 | 3-1-2 | 11-2-3 | 3 |
2. | Christopher Newport | 11-2-3 | 0.606 | 3-2-2 | 11-2-3 | 1 |
3. | Mary Washington | 11-3-3 | 0.633 | 2-2-2 | 11-3-3 | 2 |
4. | Roanoke | 11-1-3 | 0.558 | 1-0-2 | 12-1-3 | 4 |
5. | Oglethorpe | 12-3-0 | 0.559 | 2-2-0 | 12-3-0 | 5 |
6. | Centre | 13-3-1 | 0.569 | 3-3-0 | 13-3-1 | 6 |
7. | Ramapo | 10-1-5 | 0.584 | 1-0-2 | 10-1-5 | -- |
8. | Rowan | 8-4-3 | 0.611 | 2-0-2 | 8-4-3 | 7 |
Both Southern Virginia University (SVU) and St. Mary's College of Maryland (SMCM) left the CAC this week. SVU is heading to USA South and SMCM is heading to North Eastern (NEAC), both in fall 2021. That leaves only Christopher Newport (CNU), Mary Washington (UMW), and Salisbury, and would appear to be the final nail in the coffin for the CAC.
Though they likely would have preferred full membership in the ODAC, I suspect this is still a positive for SVU who have long wanted out of the CAC, and USA South doesn't look much worse than the CAC from a geographic standpoint, plus they now have football in their primary conference. It looks like a less than optimal compromise for SMCM, as they are a geographic outlier from most of the league, save Gallaudet. I suppose they can schedule Wells and SUNY-Morrisville in one trip, and likewise northern teams could schedule Gallaudet and SMCM in one trip, though it would mean playing on consecutive days. Regardless, they are looking at a lot more travel than they had in the CAC. They also appear to be moving from one unstable conference to another, as NEAC is shedding four schools next year. On the plus side, SMCM men's soccer may finally get an NCAA bid in the coming years, as at least over the last few years they have been more competitive than most, if not all of the NEAC teams. It didn't help SMCM's cause being public, despite being a very small LAC. I don't believe the Landmark or MAC allow publics. The Centennial would probably have been their best fit academically and geographically, but their membership is both full and stable (they haven't added a full member since 1992).
Anyone have any ideas where this leaves CNU, UMW and Salisbury? Again, all three are public universities. Will they up their financial and student-athlete commitments towards NCAA D1 or D2? I don't know that there are a lot of options with D2 conferences in their area. There have been rumors circulating the last couple years of CNU moving to D1, though that may have been mostly wishful thinking on the part of their league competitors. There certainly is precedent with other smallish VA public universities like Longwood and W&M being D1. Likewise, I could see Salisbury moving to D1 or D2. They appear to have the facilities and there is precedent in the state with schools like Frostburg and Bowie State being D2, and the somewhat larger UMBC and Towson being D1. They should at least be middling competitive in lacrosse, given their history in D3. UMW is not much smaller than CNU, though not sure that they would want to move out of D3 as they bill themselves as a LAC and don't have a football team. I believe ODAC also excludes publics, so their D3 options seem pretty thin outside of USA South.
Wow. I hadn't heard any whispers about CNU moving to D1 - that would be interesting. Shame Centennial won't take publics because that would be a great fit for them, and Salisbury for that matter. Certainly a good soccer conference and it would be better travel for both football teams which currently play in the NJAC.
Quote from: EB2319 on December 13, 2019, 03:03:08 PM
Wow. I hadn't heard any whispers about CNU moving to D1 - that would be interesting. Shame Centennial won't take publics because that would be a great fit for them, and Salisbury for that matter. Certainly a good soccer conference and it would be better travel for both football teams which currently play in the NJAC.
It's been over a year since I looked into it, but I don't recall the Centennial explicitly forbidding publics. That being said, they are all private schools, and with the exception of Hopkins, all small LACs. As I mentioned, they haven't taken in a new full member in over 25 years, so it would appear they are not really interested in new members. I have no idea how hard St. Mary's tried to get in, but as a small LAC with only 1,600 students they are a close match to the Centennial academically. I could see travel being a issue though. Then again, if Centennial is looking to add football programs, then maybe Salisbury and CNU have a shot, though again I think a lot of Centennial schools would balk at the travel distance, especially to CNU.
Centennial has no need for more football schools. They only have one ooc game now.
As one who has been covering the conference movements in this region (and nationally) for quite some time ... extensively ... I can tell you at this time there are no DII or D1 plans by any of the institutions.
First, there is NO process in place for a school to jump from DIII to DI. There is one being put together to be considered and voted on in January (at the NCAA Convention). The impetus being St. Thomas in Minnesota who was shoved out of the MIAC. However, there is no indication right now whether DI will approve such a leap from DIII to DI simply because the demands are so great with such a jump (normally a minimum of five years on DII is needed; really 10 years as I have understood the process and expectations). And if the process were approved, there is no guarantee St. Thomas will fit what DI is looking for (though, one would assume the two votes would be linked in someway). If the vote is approved in mid-January, St. Thomas will still not know until late February or as late as April on whether they have been approved to make the jump.
I am sure CNU is watching the process. If there is one school of the three that might be interested in what happens to St. Thomas, it would be CNU. That doesn't mean it would happen, but Salisbury and Mary Washington are in no position to make that move. And even if CNU was interested, it doesn't mean they are ready to make such an investment - and it is a major investment. They would need a conference to invite them as well. I am sure a conference could be found, but that is a requirement.
I know for a fact Salisbury is not looking to DII. As noted, it is no-man's land for these three schools in DII. I am quite sure Mary Wash isn't looking, either. I am not sure where the money would come for such a move, either.
There are some options, though there are not many I know of. The CAC will work on this, but they could become a transitional conference. Keep their core group, but have others transition in and out for varying reasons. It may still not allow for an AQ, but if there is a conference that doesn't necessarily need the AQ, it is the CAC. The Pool B bids could get gobbled up by the conference, for the most part, in nearly every sport by the CAC.
But let's slow down on the idea of going D1. There are far too many things keeping that from happening than what would allow it to happen ... or allow it to become realistic at this point.
Any news on the future of the future of the CAC, or those remaining in the conference? I realize 2021 is the death knell, but certainly there must be some conversations happening?
As I reported on Hoopsville, my sources say the CAC and ACAA agreed to a merger during the NCAA Convention. Could begin as soon as next academic year (20-21), but I don't know the details outside of that.
Considering my report was nearly two weeks ago and no one has told me I'm wrong ...
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 04, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
As I reported on Hoopsville, my sources say the CAC and ACAA agreed to a merger during the NCAA Convention. Could begin as soon as next academic year (20-21), but I don't know the details outside of that.
Considering my report was nearly two weeks ago and no one has told me I'm wrong ...
I think that concept is just so ugly we are all choosing to ignore it...
ACAA? So you would have Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Michigan, California? And the schools want this?
Quote from: jknezek on February 04, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 04, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
As I reported on Hoopsville, my sources say the CAC and ACAA agreed to a merger during the NCAA Convention. Could begin as soon as next academic year (20-21), but I don't know the details outside of that.
Considering my report was nearly two weeks ago and no one has told me I'm wrong ...
I think that concept is just so ugly we are all choosing to ignore it...
It might be ugly, but it secures the AQ.
Quote from: EB2319 on February 04, 2020, 04:19:45 PM
ACAA? So you would have Virginia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, New York, Massachusetts, Wisconsin, Michigan, California? And the schools want this?
No one said anything about in-season conference action. They are likely, in my opinion (still waiting on more info) to adopt the ACAA model and just play conference tournaments - determined by some formula (Massey ratings I believe) - for the AQ. Though, it also doesn't stop members in the CAC and those in the ACAA from playing each other as well helping the scheduling side of things (there are far more members in the ACAA on the East Coast, per se, than in any of the states you mention).
For the CAC, it holds on to the AQs it was in jeopardy of losing. For the ACAA, it gives them access, even if minute, to AQs they were never getting. And it allows all to keep a stronger presence in Division III on the whole (a conference seat as it where).
Plus, it allows for a stronger place for schools transitioning into DIII or transitioning to other conferences to come and possibly get their feet under them.
In the grand scheme of things ... this is the best option for all parties.
A reminder per the ACAA: SUNY Delhi (NAC), Valley Forge (CSAC) are all leaving for other conferences next academic year.
So as long as a conference is formed there is no quota on the number of conference games u play?
Quote from: Mr.Right on February 12, 2020, 06:33:23 AM
So as long as a conference is formed there is no quota on the number of conference games u play?
No quota ... there was talk of adding one when the ACAA was formed due to ... it's unique set-up, but that has since died down best I can tell (and the number originally proposed was way too high for many, I suspect). I also have a feeling every conference would have had to get grandfathered in and that wouldn't have really solved anything.
The only requirements for a conference are four-core members and a minimum of seven members for an AQ (with a two-year clock started once it dips below seven members after earning the AQ).
OK, I got interrupted mid-reply and D-Mac beat my to it, but here it is anyway . . .
At present, there aren't any rules or regulations that require a certain number of conference games to be played for a conference to be eligible for an automatic berth (AQ). Getting an AQ is predominately based on a conference having at least seven eligible members participating in a given sport, at least four of which are core members. The Great South Athletic Conference (GSAC) in its final years not too long ago and now currently the American Collegiate Athletic Association (ACAA) have cobbled together geographically dispersed schools and held year-end conference tournaments without any regular season play. Until now, conferences with this type of arrangement have never managed to reach and maintain the required number of members to become AQ eligible. But, the CAC absorbing the ACAA schools would make that possible.
For men's soccer, the conference would have 7 eligible members (6 core + 1 assoc.) in 2020 as follows:
CAC (3) - Christopher Newport, Mary Washington, Salisbury (core members)
ACAA (3+1=4) - Finlandia, Pine Manor, UC-Santa Cruz (core members) and UW-Whitewater (associate member for men's soccer)
[Note: in 2021, Pratt would be in their third year of provisional membership and would start counting towards the requirements, so the conference could withstand another defection a year from now and still maintain their AQ.]Now , returning to the idea of a required number of conference regular season matches, as reported in the D3soccer.com article
What's new in 2019 (https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/columns/christan-shirk/2019/new-in-2019) (d3soccer.prestosports.com/columns/christan-shirk/2019/new-in-2019 (https://d3soccer.prestosports.com/columns/christan-shirk/2019/new-in-2019)), there had been some interest in establishing such a requirement:
Quote• Policy is being drafted to require conference members to compete against conference opponents in order to earn the conference's automatic berth. The initial working group recommendation called for teams to schedule regular season contests against at least 70% of their conference members that sponsor a given sport to be eligible to earn the conference's automatic berth into the NCAA championship. The Championships Committee supports the notion of establishing a percentage threshold for automatic qualification but wasn't prepared to formally endorse what that threshold should be and asked that data be provided on the current percentage of conference opponents that members play in order to determine an appropriate benchmark. Note that this would not directly impact a conference's eligibility to receive an automatic berth, but rather which members can be awarded that berth. Even a more moderate threshold like 50% would prevent a conference from awarding an automatic berth on the basis of just an end-of-season tournament, and that eliminates some, but not all, the motivation for a geographically-dispersed conference to be formed. Any new policy would likely only be implemented starting with the 2021/22 school year.
According to D-Mac's post above, prusuit of such a policy may have died down.
I'm hearing Salisbury is likely headed to the NJAC.
FYI - the rule about transitioning programs counting towards conference membership was changed at the NCAA convention. Moving forward, any program transitioning into DIII will count as a conference member as soon as they join a conference - so, even in year 1 of their transition to Division III.
Also changing is the four-year process is now a three-year process (baring a school needing to repeat a year). That was also approved at the NCAA convention last month for both those transitioning from within the NCAA (DII or DI) and those from outside the NCAA.
There will be some new members that join this group as they transition into Division III. I know of at least one who has applied this year, but I don't have the details nor is my info shareable. I also know of a few others who have had their eye on the division and I think the change from a four-year to a three-year process could be helpful. This "new" conference could be very helpful in being a place for schools to transition into DIII ... get their feet wet and get accustomed to things, before moving on or staying in the conference (depending on many factors specific to those individual schools).
Quote from: EB2319 on February 12, 2020, 02:01:33 PM
I'm hearing Salisbury is likely headed to the NJAC.
Not happening. Period. End of story. They may be applying to satisfy their president (to tell them they did it), but several things cut this idea out of any chance of being realistic. First, the NJAC has a rule that full-time conference members have to be New Jersey state schools and the entire conference would have to change that rule to allow otherwise. The second, why in the world would ANY sport other than football in the NJAC want to add a trip to Salisbury to their schedules for conference play?
It isn't happening. I've been told that by no less than a dozen people.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 02:06:22 PM
FYI - the rule about transitioning programs counting towards conference membership was changed at the NCAA convention. Moving forward, any program transitioning into DIII will count as a conference member as soon as they join a conference - so, even in year 1 of their transition to Division III.
Also changing is the four-year process is now a three-year process (baring a school needing to repeat a year). That was also approved at the NCAA convention last month for both those transitioning from within the NCAA (DII or DI) and those from outside the NCAA.
I knew that the provisional and reclassifying membership processes were being shortened to three years, but forgot. So thanks for that reminder. What I didn't know was that provisional and reclassifying members would count towards AQ eligibility requirements from year 1. So that is good to know. Thanks.
Quote from: Christan Shirk on February 12, 2020, 03:20:51 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2020, 02:06:22 PM
FYI - the rule about transitioning programs counting towards conference membership was changed at the NCAA convention. Moving forward, any program transitioning into DIII will count as a conference member as soon as they join a conference - so, even in year 1 of their transition to Division III.
Also changing is the four-year process is now a three-year process (baring a school needing to repeat a year). That was also approved at the NCAA convention last month for both those transitioning from within the NCAA (DII or DI) and those from outside the NCAA.
I knew that the provisional and reclassifying membership processes were being shortened to three years, but forgot. So thanks for that reminder. What I didn't know was that provisional and reclassifying members would count towards AQ eligibility requirements from year 1. So that is good to know. Thanks.
Yep... part of what I do. :)
CAC expansion announced...
https://www.cacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200420cw0nca
The Capital Athletic Conference (CAC) will expand to 11 member institutions as league officials announced on Tuesday (May 26) that six schools have accepted invitations to join the CAC and will become official members effective June 15, 2020.
The CAC Board of Directors voted unanimously to offer full membership to six members of the American Collegiate Athletic Conference (ACAA), including: University of California-Santa Cruz, Finlandia University (Mich.), Mills College (Calif.), Mount Mary University (Wisc.), Pine Manor College (Mass.) and Pratt Institute (N.Y.).
The CAC will consist of 11 full-time members for the 2020-21 academic year. The Conference will reduce to eight in 21-22 when Southern Virginia University, St. Mary's College of Maryland and Pine Manor College depart. Christopher Newport University, University Mary Washington and Salisbury University will remain with the Conference along with the incoming members from the ACAA.
Quote from: EB2319 on May 26, 2020, 02:19:40 PM
CAC expansion announced...
https://www.cacsports.com/general/2019-20/releases/20200420cw0nca
The Capital Athletic Conference (CAC) will expand to 11 member institutions as league officials announced on Tuesday (May 26) that six schools have accepted invitations to join the CAC and will become official members effective June 15, 2020.
The CAC Board of Directors voted unanimously to offer full membership to six members of the American Collegiate Athletic Conference (ACAA), including: University of California-Santa Cruz, Finlandia University (Mich.), Mills College (Calif.), Mount Mary University (Wisc.), Pine Manor College (Mass.) and Pratt Institute (N.Y.).
The CAC will consist of 11 full-time members for the 2020-21 academic year. The Conference will reduce to eight in 21-22 when Southern Virginia University, St. Mary's College of Maryland and Pine Manor College depart. Christopher Newport University, University Mary Washington and Salisbury University will remain with the Conference along with the incoming members from the ACAA.
Wow - talk about a geographically dispersed conference.
Yeah, it makes the UAA look like a block party. ;)
Q: Will member schools compete in regular-season competition?
A: No
Q: How will championship events be conducted?
A: Championship host sites will be pre-determined at the start of each year.
For the 2020-21 academic year, in tournaments where six teams compete, the top four CAC teams as determined by conference standings will qualify for the championship. Massey Ratings will then be used for seeding.
For the 2020-21 academic year, the top two teams from the ACAA, using Massey Ratings, will advance to the conference tournament.
Beginning with the 2021-22 academic year, seeding in conference tournaments will be done solely by the Massey Ratings.
The host institution is automatically invited to the championship tournament in both years.
Yep. As I said on one of the men's basketball boards, this is a gold-star day for Ken Massey, as his computer algorithm is now an integral part of the official D3 landscape.
We have reported on this move since January on Hoopsville - and on the basketball boards - as we had it confirmed. We have just been patiently waiting for them to announce it.
I like that they called this an expansion when in reality it is a merger. LOL
As for Massey Ratings ... ACAA has been using that template for awhile. We mentioned on the show that it was the most logical (some way of determining your qualifying teams) way to do it.
It will also change as the conference will change in terms of membership quite a bit over the next few years. Pine Manor probably only has one year of existence remaining. There are three new members coming to DIII (Bob Jones, Warren Wilson, Manor) and at least one of them I am confident will be coming to the new-CAC, but all three could easily be there for a few years before moving to other conference homes. The conference will be a bit of a transitional place for schools moving forward.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 03:03:13 PM
Yep. As I said on one of the men's basketball boards, this is a gold-star day for Ken Massey, as his computer algorithm is now an integral part of the official D3 landscape.
To be clear, ACAA was using it already for this exact purpose.
The ACAA didn't have an autobid.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 04:39:11 PM
The ACAA didn't have an autobid.
No ... but only half of this model will use the Massey (the other half conference games) and the autobid still is decided via actual games played, not handed out via Massey.
Though, some conferences do have back-up plans if necessary that I think use Massey to help decide bids/seeding.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 04:39:11 PM
The ACAA didn't have an autobid.
No ... but only half of this model will use the Massey (the other half conference games) and the autobid still is decided via actual games played, not handed out via Massey.
I didn't say it was handed out via Massey. I said that it's now an integral part of the official D3 landscape -- which it is, because it's now a determining factor in who gets the chance to play in the CAC tourney for that autobid.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 06:31:23 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on May 26, 2020, 05:13:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 26, 2020, 04:39:11 PM
The ACAA didn't have an autobid.
No ... but only half of this model will use the Massey (the other half conference games) and the autobid still is decided via actual games played, not handed out via Massey.
I didn't say it was handed out via Massey. I said that it's now an integral part of the official D3 landscape -- which it is, because it's now a determining factor in who gets the chance to play in the CAC tourney for that autobid.
I'm simply saying this isn't new. The ACAA had it as part of the plan and if they ever had achieved AQ status in sports this would already be the case. And I know other conferences that use Massey (and other things like D3hoops.com Top 25 poll and regional rankings, SOS, etc.) in their tie-breaker rules.
I just don't think this is significant when it already existed.
It is part of the official, every-year process with which a league is choosing its competitors for the AQ, which is new (and the ACAA example is irrelevant, because the ACAA never had an AQ and that "league" no longer exists), and it will continue to be a part of the process for as long as the CAC has this setup. And it's not an obscure, well-down-the-line tiebreaker, either -- this is something that the league will use every season for every sport. Tiebreakers don't come into play every year in every sport like this will.
Do you want to keep playing ping-pong over something that I originally posted tongue-in-cheek, Dave, or are we ready to move on?
No clue what you two are going 'round about, but please don't stop. I haven't had any sports to watch since the night the NBA shut down.
Beginning with the 2021-22 academic year, seeding in conference tournaments will be done solely by the Massey Ratings. The host institution is automatically invited to the championship tournament in both years.
I would be surprised if 3 of the 4 every year are not CNU, UMW and Salisbury. And UCSC will be robbed when either Finlandia or Pratt host, which I guess would be year 4.
Last year's Massey Ratings:
CNU - 16
UMW - 18
St. Mary's - 44 (leaving in 21)
Salisbury - 89
S. VA - 381 (leaving in 21)
UC Santa Cruz - 116
Pine Minor - 158 (leaving in 21)
Finlandia - 410
Pratt - 418
Quote from: PaulNewman on May 27, 2020, 04:41:23 PM
No clue what you two are going 'round about, but please don't stop. I haven't had any sports to watch since the night the NBA shut down.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-feP_Q1zH-tE/WLIP3q866AI/AAAAAAAASn0/n6GUle3e1P4pJxSrT_j4BnTU-cQ6jfm_wCLcB/s1600/SomeSpeedyCanvasback.gif)
Actually, Dave's now got a major D3 news story to cover with the big announcement in the MIAC today, so I doubt he'll be wasting his time on the likes of me anymore. ;)
Absolutely not. The definitive final word is not even close to being decided. FWIW, I've got you well ahead on points, but will your stamina abandon you in the last 2-3 rounds?
(https://images.amcnetworks.com/ifc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/nose.gif)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 27, 2020, 03:28:33 PM
It is part of the official, every-year process with which a league is choosing its competitors for the AQ, which is new (and the ACAA example is irrelevant, because the ACAA never had an AQ and that "league" no longer exists), and it will continue to be a part of the process for as long as the CAC has this setup. And it's not an obscure, well-down-the-line tiebreaker, either -- this is something that the league will use every season for every sport. Tiebreakers don't come into play every year in every sport like this will.
Do you want to keep playing ping-pong over something that I originally posted tongue-in-cheek, Dave, or are we ready to move on?
I didn't realize you were saying something with the tongue-in-cheek. Not your norm usually. If I had picked up on that earlier ... I would have better understood.
And yes, I am still busy with the CAC/ACAA thing (amazing how many people then start believing rumors of other movements, some of which are not even allowed under NCAA rule) and the MIAC thing (don't get me started).
Plus ... I'm trying to figure out if unemployment will ever pay me (I haven't worked since March 11) and I have to make a challenging decision per work coming up.
I rather be doing a lot of other things right now ...
So the CAC, after absorbing the ACAA, rebrands as the Coast-to-Coast Athletic Conference (C2C).
https://adobe.ly/36J4OCs
https://vimeo.com/478382828
https://www.c2csports.com/landing/index
The C2C has a slick presentation and graphic identity, but it still is what it is.