A separate thread seems useful, so here it is...
No need to "quote" this first post--just start us out, someone...
Opinions on who got the biggest shaft being left out and who go the biggest shaft in their opening match up?
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
Concerning the bye not given to Messiah (noticed on another thread), no big deal.
Quite possibly, the Falcons would rather not have a bye. The last time they had one, they won their first game just 1-0 vs Morrisville, and (as many of their fans will painfully recall), as defending champions in 2011 they got bounced 1-0 by Neumann after receiving a bye. Now, 2012 was a totally different story...
Anyway, it's probably best for the Falcons to play rather than sit out the first round game. Lots of young players get time on this team, and they can benefit from the baptism vs the lower-ranked opponent first.
Quote from: Falconer on November 05, 2018, 03:31:21 PM
Concerning the bye not given to Messiah (noticed on another thread), no big deal.
Quite possibly, the Falcons would rather not have a bye. The last time they had one, they won their first game just 1-0 vs Morrisville, and (as many of their fans will painfully recall), as defending champions in 2011 they got bounced 1-0 by Neumann after receiving a bye. Now, 2012 was a totally different story...
Anyway, it's probably best for the Falcons to play rather than sit out the first round game. Lots of young players get time on this team, and they can benefit from the baptism vs the lower-ranked opponent first.
Byes are based on geography and how the bracket is created even more so than the best team(s) receiving it. Some years it matches up, some years it doesn't. With so many teams in the east/northeast, they have a harder time receiving a bye.
Quote from: jknezek on November 05, 2018, 03:17:39 PM
Opinions on who got the biggest shaft being left out
Oh you already know who I think got the shaft...Good thing is SNC returns almost all of their starters and a large senior class for next year and I hope they get revenge for getting screwed.
I feel really badly for North Park, St. Norbert and C-M-S, and pretty bad for Ithaca and Hope.
There's a lot of focus on blaming NESCAC and UAA....They are the two best conferences year in and year out without dispute. The #8 NESCAC team (that had to win a play-in game to even get the 8th spot) just prevailed over Tufts, Amherst and Williams! The #8 seed!!! Middle of pack NESCAC is very good soccer and some of these other teams might be challenged to win even 1 or 2 games in the NESCAC or UAA (see Emory Eagles).
Someone was sarcastic about the East getting the bids. LL only got the AQ. NCAC only got the AQ. Look to the North and West for some of the blame. The North cmte chair earned his money. 4 bids to the MIAC! That's where I would complain...Augsburg, St Thomas, Southwestern...and two Pool Bs.
Chicago has a good draw. So does Calvin. Tufts has one home game to the Sweet 16 and no doubt home field for the Sectional. Good draw for Tufts. Messiah's looks the hardest IMO.
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
D3 results:
T1. Trinity - 13-1-3, .853
T1. CMS - 14-2-1, .853
3. SW - 12-4-2, .722
Against RROs:
1. CMS - 4-1-0, .800
2. Trinity - 2-0-3, .700
3. SW - 3-2-1, .583
Strength of Schedule:
1. SW - 0.558
2. Trinity - 0.534
3. CMS - 0.532
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 05, 2018, 04:37:27 PM
Middle of pack NESCAC is very good soccer and some of these other teams might be challenged to win even 1 or 2 games in the NESCAC or UAA (see Emory Eagles).
[RANT] Apologies for my side-bar, but I couldn't let this slide. I struggle to call NESCAC very good soccer. Maybe very successful soccer, but I've not been impressed with the quality of the game in those I watched. [END RANT]
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
These are supposed to be the final numbers the NCAA uses in making their decisions. Unfortunately (in CMS' case) we have zero explanation why a small (significant, but still small) difference in OWP overrides much larger differences in overall record and records against RROs. Then there's the fact that SW was 0-1-1 against Trinity with the tie actually a loss in PK.
I'd sure love Christian or one of the d3soccer folks to weigh in on this. I've never seen this large of a disconnect between the NCAA's own criteria and their selections.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
These are supposed to be the final numbers the NCAA uses in making their decisions. Unfortunately (in CMS' case) we have zero explanation why a small (significant, but still small) difference in OWP overrides much larger differences in overall record and records against RROs.
I'd sure love Christian or one of the d3soccer folks to weigh in on this. I've never seen this large of a disconnect between the NCAA's own criteria and their selections.
I'd also like to know whether H2H plays any role at all...From my slim understanding, anyway, it does not. UWP top 3 in the North, even though they lost to SNC, who finished 6th in the region? I know that they took a Pool B bid, but one could argue that since there were 2 Pool Bs, Platteville essentially took SNC's Pool C spot. I simply do not understand. Does H2H have any weight? It certainly should, in my opinion.
Good thing to see Case Western Reserve in the Dance.
GO SPARTANS!!!
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
D3 results:
T1. Trinity - 13-1-3, .853
T1. CMS - 14-2-1, .853
3. SW - 12-4-2, .722
Against RROs:
1. CMS - 4-1-0, .800
2. Trinity - 2-0-3, .700
3. SW - 3-2-1, .583
Strength of Schedule:
1. SW - 0.558
2. Trinity - 0.534
3. CMS - 0.532
Thanks. The regional rankings have changed since the brackets were released. This morning, CMS was ranked 1 and SW was 5. That's a pretty big jump for SW in one week.
These final rankings do seem unusual.
Kenyon finishes at #4 in Great Lakes.....16-1-2 (.890+); .578 SoS; 2-1-2 RvR...beat John Carroll H2H....not to mention unbeaten in NCAC play winning regular season and tournament. What else were they supposed to do? Seems there is a very good chance they had to win the AQ, although looking at all the Pool Cs it appears that some teams were rewarded for bigger numbers on RvR while others were given a pass on RvR.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 05, 2018, 04:53:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 05, 2018, 04:37:27 PM
Middle of pack NESCAC is very good soccer and some of these other teams might be challenged to win even 1 or 2 games in the NESCAC or UAA (see Emory Eagles).
[RANT] Apologies for my side-bar, but I couldn't let this slide. I struggle to call NESCAC very good soccer. Maybe very successful soccer, but I've not been impressed with the quality of the game in those I watched. [END RANT]
Very competitive soccer? I'm generally not a NESCAC apologist. The team I follow is not a NESCAC team. But they have won 3 out of the last 4 national titles.
The current discussion reminds me of a posting from last year by our friend Blooter:
Quote from: blooter442 on June 26, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
If I can borrow comparisons with foreign leagues solely in terms of style of play, this is what I'd say:
NESCAC – English Premier League – Physical and athletic. A very competitive league where the gap from top-to-bottom isn't as large as other leagues. Much like the EPL there are a few teams who can play a possession-based game such as Tufts and Williams, but the style of play is pretty direct for the most part. The top teams are always in the hunt – even if, in the case of the EPL, there hasn't been a UCL Champion from the League since 2012, whereas the NESCAC has won the last 3 UAA titles.
UAA – La Liga – Technical and skillful. Pass-and-move is the name of the game, although Brandeis can play direct when necessary – they are probably the most physical team in the league, while Chicago and Rochester are probably the most athletic sides. The teams at the top of the UAA are always relatively competitive in terms of the national picture, but perhaps the opposite of the NESCAC/EPL comparison is true here, as the last four UCL titles have been won by La Liga sides while Brandeis is the only UAA side to have won a national title (and that was before they became members of the UAA).
NEWMAC – Bundesliga – A couple of solid possession teams, but most teams line up relatively "pragmatic" – at least in my experience. I say pragmatic because a "defensive" lineup would be more like Serie A, while the Bundesliga (and the NEWMAC) are relatively balanced.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 05, 2018, 05:47:36 PM
The current discussion reminds me of a posting from last year by our friend Blooter:
Forgot about that one! Before I saw it was a quoted post I first saw the text about PL, La Liga, and was like hey, that looks familiar...thanks for posting!
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
These are supposed to be the final numbers the NCAA uses in making their decisions. Unfortunately (in CMS' case) we have zero explanation why a small (significant, but still small) difference in OWP overrides much larger differences in overall record and records against RROs.
I'd sure love Christian or one of the d3soccer folks to weigh in on this. I've never seen this large of a disconnect between the NCAA's own criteria and their selections.
I'd also like to know whether H2H plays any role at all...From my slim understanding, anyway, it does not. UWP top 3 in the North, even though they lost to SNC, who finished 6th in the region? I know that they took a Pool B bid, but one could argue that since there were 2 Pool Bs, Platteville essentially took SNC's Pool C spot. I simply do not understand. Does H2H have any weight? It certainly should, in my opinion.
Am I missing something? The only Pool B I'm seeing is Platteville?
Quote from: WarhawkFan on November 05, 2018, 06:51:55 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
These are supposed to be the final numbers the NCAA uses in making their decisions. Unfortunately (in CMS' case) we have zero explanation why a small (significant, but still small) difference in OWP overrides much larger differences in overall record and records against RROs.
I'd sure love Christian or one of the d3soccer folks to weigh in on this. I've never seen this large of a disconnect between the NCAA's own criteria and their selections.
I'd also like to know whether H2H plays any role at all...From my slim understanding, anyway, it does not. UWP top 3 in the North, even though they lost to SNC, who finished 6th in the region? I know that they took a Pool B bid, but one could argue that since there were 2 Pool Bs, Platteville essentially took SNC's Pool C spot. I simply do not understand. Does H2H have any weight? It certainly should, in my opinion.
Am I missing something? The only Pool B I'm seeing is Platteville?
You, me and the NCAA, which also says there was only one Pool B bid: https://www.ncaa.com/news/soccer-men/article/2018-11-05/college-soccer-diii-mens-championship-bracket-released-2018?amp
Quote from: Buck O. on November 05, 2018, 07:00:52 PM
Quote from: WarhawkFan on November 05, 2018, 06:51:55 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
I may have misread or misunderstood, but I thought I also saw other posters referring to more than one Pool B bid
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
These are supposed to be the final numbers the NCAA uses in making their decisions. Unfortunately (in CMS' case) we have zero explanation why a small (significant, but still small) difference in OWP overrides much larger differences in overall record and records against RROs.
I'd sure love Christian or one of the d3soccer folks to weigh in on this. I've never seen this large of a disconnect between the NCAA's own criteria and their selections.
I'd also like to know whether H2H plays any role at all...From my slim understanding, anyway, it does not. UWP top 3 in the North, even though they lost to SNC, who finished 6th in the region? I know that they took a Pool B bid, but one could argue that since there were 2 Pool Bs, Platteville essentially took SNC's Pool C spot. I simply do not understand. Does H2H have any weight? It certainly should, in my opinion.
Am I missing something? The only Pool B I'm seeing is Platteville?
You, me and the NCAA, which also says there was only one Pool B bid: https://www.ncaa.com/news/soccer-men/article/2018-11-05/college-soccer-diii-mens-championship-bracket-released-2018?amp
Quote from: EB2319 on November 05, 2018, 04:53:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 05, 2018, 04:37:27 PM
Middle of pack NESCAC is very good soccer and some of these other teams might be challenged to win even 1 or 2 games in the NESCAC or UAA (see Emory Eagles).
[RANT] Apologies for my side-bar, but I couldn't let this slide. I struggle to call NESCAC very good soccer. Maybe very successful soccer, but I've not been impressed with the quality of the game in those I watched. [END RANT]
I would totally agree with you BUT it is almost like the committee has given NESCAC the distinction of being the ACC in D1. I will say it is warranted because of 4 different teams in the league(almost a 5th) have won NCAA National Championships. So it is what it is. The playing style SUCKS I agree but it is successful and the athleticism of the players in Nescac trumps the conservative ugly soccer. Interestingly, I love the UAA as their Head Coaches for the most part play some true futbol and are not afraid to send #'s forward and play teams straight up. However, at SOME POINT the UAA has to answer to the fact they are getting 4-5 teams in every year and not winning National Championships. I know there road the Championship is harder but still Nescac has gotten it done in the Final 4 and the UAA has yet to do it. Nescac does not get 4-5 teams every year as MOST years they get the AQ and 2 Pool C's it just ended up that New England got 5 Pool C's(which is normal) and they all happened to be Nescac's.
I will say that 5 Pool C's is a bit much...As much as I know Midd is an NCAA team I personally do not like the fact that the committee rewarded them for playing 5 CRAP non-conference opponents. I thought had they gotten left out it would have forced Head Coach Alex Elias to play a couple tougher non-conference teams. The New England team that got screwed was Roger Williams. They were 16-5-0 with a 3-2-0 RvR and a .561 SOS and lost a real tough game to Gordon in the CCC Championship. I saw RWU in person and I know they are better than Gordon but they failed to win that game when they needed to. Personally, had they gotten to PK's with Gordon I think they would have gotten in over Midd. They jumped from not being ranked to #7 in New England so the committee recognized it BUT it just was not enough to pass Midd. Midd did have some solid results against the ranked Nescac teams and in the end that was the difference.
I mean Endicott has a major beef as well. 10-6-2 with a .612 SOS and 4-4-0 RvR.....That is VERY CLOSE and I think had they had one less loss maybe two they would have gotten in. Their horrible start to the 2018 season KILLED them. The loss to Trinity CT is a killer but other than that I am the other 5 losses were against St.Joe's, Rochester, Brandeis, Conn College and Roger Williams. Those are all very good teams and 4 ranked wins and a SOS over .600 is very tough to ignore.
Two Pool B berths?!? Where did someone get that idea? Who did they think was the second Pool B selection?
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2018, 07:40:21 PM
Two Pool B berths?!? Where did someone get that idea? Who did they think was the second Pool B selection?
The only thing I can think is they forgot that UW-Superior is now in a conference
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 05:06:43 PM
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2018, 04:49:19 PM
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 03:20:05 PM
As someone new to following soccer as well as D3 athletics, how does a team like Claremont-Mudd-Scripps who is ranked #1 in the West region get left out when Southwestern (Texas) who is ranked #5 regionally get in with the Pool C bid?
According to https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/soccer-men/d3/regional-rankings (the ones released today) the NCAA has Southwestern ranked #1 in the region despite having a worse record than Trinity or CMS, a lower winning percentage against RROs, and a 1-3 h2h loss to Trinity. CMS was third. The only thing SW had over either school was a better SOS (by a whopping .02). Don't ask me.
Honest question: Are these regional rankings released today there solely to serve the purpose of justifying At-Large bids? In this situation, that seems to be the case...
These are supposed to be the final numbers the NCAA uses in making their decisions. Unfortunately (in CMS' case) we have zero explanation why a small (significant, but still small) difference in OWP overrides much larger differences in overall record and records against RROs. Then there's the fact that SW was 0-1-1 against Trinity with the tie actually a loss in PK.
I'd sure love Christian or one of the d3soccer folks to weigh in on this. I've never seen this large of a disconnect between the NCAA's own criteria and their selections.
$100 dollar bet it was because they did not want an extra flight to Texas. They already have Pacific Lutheran going to the midwest.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 05, 2018, 05:47:36 PM
The current discussion reminds me of a posting from last year by our friend Blooter:
Quote from: blooter442 on June 26, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
If I can borrow comparisons with foreign leagues solely in terms of style of play, this is what I'd say:
NESCAC – English Premier League – Physical and athletic. A very competitive league where the gap from top-to-bottom isn't as large as other leagues. Much like the EPL there are a few teams who can play a possession-based game such as Tufts and Williams, but the style of play is pretty direct for the most part. The top teams are always in the hunt – even if, in the case of the EPL, there hasn't been a UCL Champion from the League since 2012, whereas the NESCAC has won the last 3 UAA titles.
UAA – La Liga – Technical and skillful. Pass-and-move is the name of the game, although Brandeis can play direct when necessary – they are probably the most physical team in the league, while Chicago and Rochester are probably the most athletic sides. The teams at the top of the UAA are always relatively competitive in terms of the national picture, but perhaps the opposite of the NESCAC/EPL comparison is true here, as the last four UCL titles have been won by La Liga sides while Brandeis is the only UAA side to have won a national title (and that was before they became members of the UAA).
NEWMAC – Bundesliga – A couple of solid possession teams, but most teams line up relatively "pragmatic" – at least in my experience. I say pragmatic because a "defensive" lineup would be more like Serie A, while the Bundesliga (and the NEWMAC) are relatively balanced.
What conference would be:
Serie A?
English Championship ?
Nescac reminds me more of the English Championship but he is spot on with the UAA being La Liga
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 05, 2018, 07:40:21 PM
Two Pool B berths?!? Where did someone get that idea? Who did they think was the second Pool B selection?
Yeah I mistook UW Superior as Pool B...regardless, there were several poor Pool C selections, which I have evidenced in several past posts
I am sorry the committee did its job for the most part based on the criteria. How are they supposed to leave Williams out with 5 RANKED Wins? I could see leaving them out if they had 1 more loss BUT at 10-5-2 its enough.
[/quote]
Nescac reminds me more of the English Championship but he is spot on with the UAA being La Liga
[/quote]
I'm sorry, but I have to agree. Outside of Tufts, the Nescac style of play - while undoubtedly successful - is so primitive. Many high level high school teams and all academy teams play a much more aesthetically appealing brand of soccer. I love this sport, even at the d3 level, but I simply can't bring myself to watch Nescac games. I say this all while recognizing that the goal isn't to make things entertaining for myself or others. The goal is to win and be successful, which Nescac sides have achieved.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 05, 2018, 08:13:32 PM
I am sorry the committee did its job for the most part based on the criteria. How are they supposed to leave Williams out with 5 RANKED Wins? I could see leaving them out if they had 1 more loss BUT at 10-5-2 its enough.
Their criteria has been applied wildly inconsistently. Southwestern over CMS? Augsburg or St. Thomas over St Norbert/North Park? Hard to justify a team with a winning percentage of roughly .600 when there are teams that have far better metrics.
Curious how much of the NESCAC ugliness can be blamed on Serpone and Amherst? Success breeds imitation. Was the NESCAC always this aesthetically challenged back when Williams was the class of the league?
Quote from: 4231CenterBack on November 05, 2018, 08:45:44 PM
Curious how much of the NESCAC ugliness can be blamed on Serpone and Amherst? Success breeds imitation. Was the NESCAC always this aesthetically challenged back when Williams was the class of the league?
NO.....Williams played some fantastic futbol and no I am not just being a total homer but TBH they never Won the whole thing playing futbol they always bowed out to teams that were very defensive and not as talented. It was extremely frustrating...When they had all the Jamaicans they were playing like Arsenal circa 2004...It was so fun to watch and you know what they would draw like 1000 fans to the game because it was so entertaining. Fun times...Now everything is so conservative/ugly that Nescac teams do not draw fans like they used to about 10-15 years ago....
Midd was always UGLY in style but successful so Serpone entered the league in 2007 and saw Midd win the National Championship UGLY and he made it worse...Williams was still trying to play futbol and countering during this transition but by 2009 all of a sudden Bowdoin recruited some monsters and they started going long throws/set pieces mixed with some skill and by 2012 the league had changed completely. It has gotten worse every year IMO and I have watched a ton of games..That being said I still love watching the league just get frustrated sometimes...
Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 05, 2018, 08:43:56 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 05, 2018, 08:13:32 PM
I am sorry the committee did its job for the most part based on the criteria. How are they supposed to leave Williams out with 5 RANKED Wins? I could see leaving them out if they had 1 more loss BUT at 10-5-2 its enough.
Their criteria has been applied wildly inconsistently. Southwestern over CMS? Augsburg or St. Thomas over St Norbert/North Park? Hard to justify a team with a winning percentage of roughly .600 when there are teams that have far better metrics.
There is always 1 head scratch BUT I truly believe they did want to fly CMS to Texas....St.Thomas IMO is a worthy pick and I gave you my spin on St.Norbert. I think North PArk got screwed being "stuck" behind Hope because Hope was not coming off the board. If you look at Hope's non-conference schedule compared to Calvin's it is not even close as they had to many cupcakes IMO.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 05, 2018, 08:55:38 PM
Quote from: 4231CenterBack on November 05, 2018, 08:45:44 PM
Curious how much of the NESCAC ugliness can be blamed on Serpone and Amherst? Success breeds imitation. Was the NESCAC always this aesthetically challenged back when Williams was the class of the league?
NO.....Williams played some fantastic futbol and no I am not just being a total homer but TBH they never Won the whole thing playing futbol they always bowed out to teams that were very defensive and not as talented. It was extremely frustrating...When they had all the Jamaicans they were playing like Arsenal circa 2004...It was so fun to watch and you know what they would draw like 1000 fans to the game because it was so entertaining. Fun times...Now everything is so conservative/ugly that Nescac teams do not draw fans like they used to about 10-15 years ago....
Midd was always UGLY in style but successful so Serpone entered the league in 2007 and saw Midd win the National Championship UGLY and he made it worse...Williams was still trying to play futbol and countering during this transition but by 2009 all of a sudden Bowdoin recruited some monsters and they started going long throws/set pieces mixed with some skill and by 2012 the league had changed completely. It has gotten worse every year IMO and I have watched a ton of games..That being said I still love watching the league just get frustrated sometimes...
Thank you! nice summary.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 05, 2018, 08:38:47 PM
I'm sorry, but I have to agree. Outside of Tufts, the Nescac style of play - while undoubtedly successful - is so primitive. Many high level high school teams and all academy teams play a much more aesthetically appealing brand of soccer. I love this sport, even at the d3 level, but I simply can't bring myself to watch Nescac games. I say this all while recognizing that the goal isn't to make things entertaining for myself or others. The goal is to win and be successful, which Nescac sides have achieved.
I don't disagree that it is tough to watch, so in that sense yes it is Championship-esque. If the original request was for a pure stylistic critique (I can't remember the exact request) then 100% agree. However, while NESCAC teams can compete for (and do win) NCAA titles (competing against the UAA/NEWMAC/etc.), Championship teams can't qualify for and compete in a cup competition (the CL) against other top leagues; teams from the PL/La Liga/Bundesliga, however, can. That's why I picked the PL and La Liga, for comparison's sake. ;)
It's worth noting that a lot of long-ball teams spend time in both the Championship and Premier League (e.g. Stoke, WBA, etc.), so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the PL has some of the long-ball approach in it.
Couple of notes about the final regional rankings, selections, bracketing, etc.
First off...
Quote from: territorysooner on November 05, 2018, 05:22:33 PM
Thanks. The regional rankings have changed since the brackets were released. This morning, CMS was ranked 1 and SW was 5. That's a pretty big jump for SW in one week.
The rankings did not "change." What you saw posted (where you saw them) was from the previous week. The final regional rankings are not posted until AFTER the brackets are announced for one simple reason - they don't want people guessing at the selections and bracketing ahead of time. They want the element of surprise still for bracket shows and whatnot. I do appreciate that aspect.
I just want to make sure people don't think the rankings were "changed" to explain the selections and bracketing. That didn't happen and I'm quite positive in saying that. Previous rankings stay posted until new rankings are released.
Others will remember, it took a lot of fighting and arguing to even get the final regional rankings published in the first place. I am happy to explain how it all transpired if anyone is interested, because the story is both fascinating and frustrating ... but we now get to see these things when just a couple of years ago they were nonexistent.
But to clarify the point ... the rankings were not "changed" after the bracket came out. You were looking at last week's rankings and what was released today (now linkable) is the new rankings at the end of the season.
No ... I'm not going to get into why CMS wasn't picked or whatnot, because I haven't talked to enough people to understand what did or didn't happen. I can only save that energy, right now, for football, basketball, and lacrosse. Maybe someday soccer can get that attention from me. (Though, I have dabbled the last few years since I have contacts close to the committees.) :)
As for the theory that selections were made to avoid travel ... if that did happen, then the committee would have committed malpractice. I have spoken to a number of committees in a number of sports and they emphasis that they select their teams and don't consider the ramifications of the bracket until they get to bracketing. We actually had a case in basketball last year where some theorized that ... well, until the committee chair explained what happened with the bracketing and then it all made more sense (though, many then argued they should have made one more pick in Texas to help it all get solved ... it was a funny reversal of thinking/theorizing).
Yes, from an outsider's point of view, it appears CMS was left out to avoid flights and what not ... that just isn't how this plays out. If that did happen, it won't be held a secret and not only would the committee be in trouble, but so would the committee's NCAA liaison. There are protocols and that one is followed very well from what I've been told. Even a liaison isn't allowed to utter, "if you don't pick them it saves money." Ultimately, the committees want to spend as much money as they can, so leaving CMS out would be opposite of that thinking. :)
Per the bye not going to Messiah - the explanation I read was pretty good. Byes aren't designed in DIII to go to the best teams, they are designed to go to the most logical teams geographically speaking when it comes to bracketing. That does not mean they can't go to the best teams if conditions allow, it just isn't the best idea for a committee trying to work in the confines they have when bracketing.
As for the criteria, selections, etc. ... again, can't speak to that. Not sure if the d3soccer guys have the same type of relationships with the committees those of us at d3football, d3hoops, d3baseball, etc. have with our respective committees (and I'm developing also with lacrosse). We have found it invaluable not only in educating and informing fans and the public ... but for the committees understanding there are people watching other than coaches who have a vested interest and will question what we believe to be mistakes. It also gives the committees (primarily the chairs) the opportunity to discuss their selections. People may not like the answers for a variety of reasons (usually personal or misinformed), but the committee at least explains things at the very least.
OK... I think that's enough from me. Time to start studying these brackets ... I've got to be ready, after-all (hint, hint).
I second worst draw among potential "deep run" contenders goes to W&L AND Johns Hopkins. That's look like a toss-up game and IMO both had decent to good chances for a nice run if the prize for coming out of that game wasn't Messiah. Also presents a very challenging 2nd round game for the Falcons.
It's been raining in Grantham for a full day and a half, with no end in sight. Current forecast has no rain tomorrow or Thursday, but 100% on Friday.
It's a good bet that the opening rounds in Grantham will be played on turf, not grass. That would seem to help JHU quite a bit. On the other hand, last year the Falcons played simply terrific soccer the second weekend (vs Stevens and Rochester) on that same surface. They utterly dominated possession against a really good Rochester team that took out Amherst the day before. If they play nearly as well this coming weekend, none of the other teams will have a chance. It's up to them, frankly, to take care of business, regardless of which surface is in play.
I said before that I think having played Messiah is a help in terms of preparation, what to expect in terms of level of effort required to stay in the game deep into the 2nd half where you still have a chance, and minimizing the intimidation of the opposing jersey/atmosphere factor. JHU has played Messiah this year and actually had a 2-0 lead. I thought W&L played Messiah last year but it was 2 years ago, but that is still recent enough for the coaching staff and some of the players to have an idea about what would be facing them (and Messiah blitzed W&L 4-0 two years ago I believe at W&L).
Bracket musings....
I agree that at first blush at least Chicago looks to have the easiest path among the "big four." That said, I'm guessing that impression is largely influenced by looking at the bottom half of Chicago quad where there does not appear to be any major challenge in an Elite 8 game. They have to get there, and assuming they get Carleton and then Trinity (or maybe MHB), those could be tricky games (and of course Trinity is familiar with the Maroons from their early season 3-3 draw). The bottom half of the quad also presents a great opportunity for several teams (Luther, GAC, St Thomas, Augsburg, Knox, etc) to have a nice run and then take a swing at Chicago or whoever get to the Elite 8 from the top.
Calvin's quad has some good teams but I don't see anyone that would worry them a ton, especially at their place. A CWRU-Capital 2nd round game would be interesting as I believe they had a 1 goal OT game earlier. A big question is whether Chewy Gordon will even play or be effective if he does. A Kenyon-CMU game would be a very good 2nd round dogfight but Centre also is on a roll. Lyco versus John Carroll would be a very competitive 2nd round game. Kenyon, CMU, Lyco and John Carroll would all have a chance against Calvin but Calvin would be pretty clearly favored in each scenario.
Some of the best 1st rounds games are on the other half of the bracket.....Midd vs St. Joe's, Montclair-Colby should be fascinating, Haverford-NYU, definitely W&L and Hopkins, SLU versus Brockport, Eastern and Mary Washington, and even F&M versus high-octane Western Conn.
Messiah will have a good 2nd round game with either W&L or JHU, and then could face the winner of a Cortland St-Williams clash. I could see several teams emerging from the bottom half, so while that lower half has several very good teams (UR, SLU, F&M, Eastern, MW, etc) Messiah will only have to face one of them. Hard to predict which team that will be.
I don't see Tufts having too much trouble with Stevens or Gordon, especially at home. The Sweet 16 game, though, with either Midd, St Joe's or Amherst will pose a significant challenge. I like Conn College's draw in the bottom half of that quad at least to the Sweet 16 (although Fala from Ramapo might be a problem especially if Conn can't score). Then again, Ramapo might not get by Springfield. The winner of a projected Haverford-Montclair beauty would like their chances getting all the way to the Final Four, especially if Tufts is not there to meet one of them in the Elite 8.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
Bracket musings....
I agree that at first blush at least Chicago looks to have the easiest path among the "big four." That said, I'm guessing that impression is largely influenced by looking at the bottom half of Chicago quad where there does not appear to be any major challenge in an Elite 8 game. They have to get there, and assuming they get Carleton and then Trinity (or maybe MHB), those could be tricky games (and of course Trinity is familiar with the Maroons from their early season 3-3 draw). The bottom half of the quad also presents a great opportunity for several teams (Luther, GAC, St Thomas, Augsburg, Knox, etc) to have a nice run and then take a swing at Chicago or whoever get to the Elite 8 from the top.
Calvin's quad has some good teams but I don't see anyone that would worry them a ton, especially at their place. A CWRU-Capital 2nd round game would be interesting as I believe they had a 1 goal OT game earlier. A big question is whether Chewy Gordon will even play or be effective if he does. A Kenyon-CMU game would be a very good 2nd round dogfight but Centre also is on a roll. Lyco versus John Carroll would be a very competitive 2nd round game. Kenyon, CMU, Lyco and John Carroll would all have a chance against Calvin but Calvin would be pretty clearly favored in each scenario.
Some of the best 1st rounds games are on the other half of the bracket.....Midd vs St. Joe's, Montclair-Colby should be fascinating, Haverford-NYU, definitely W&L and Hopkins, SLU versus Brockport, Eastern and Mary Washington, and even F&M versus high-octane Western Conn.
Messiah will have a good 2nd round game with either W&L or JHU, and then could face the winner of a Cortland St-Williams clash. I could see several teams emerging from the bottom half, so while that lower half has several very good teams (UR, SLU, F&M, Eastern, MW, etc) Messiah will only have to face one of them. Hard to predict which team that will be.
I don't see Tufts having too much trouble with Stevens or Gordon, especially at home. The Sweet 16 game, though, with either Midd, St Joe's or Amherst will pose a significant challenge. I like Conn College's draw in the bottom half of that quad at least to the Sweet 16 (although Fala from Ramapo might be a problem especially if Conn can't score). Then again, Ramapo might not get by Springfield. The winner of a projected Haverford-Montclair beauty would like their chances getting all the way to the Final Four, especially if Tufts is not there to meet one of them in the Elite 8.
Good summary. I think Stevens Institute could give Tufts a game. They beat Haverford. They were not a cakewalk last year at Messiah. I wouldn't underestimate them if they get by first game against Gordon.
I don't completely understand all the love for Colby, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Montclair hammers them 3-0. That's not necessarily my prediction, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2018, 12:24:28 PM
I don't completely understand all the love for Colby, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if Montclair hammers them 3-0. That's not necessarily my prediction, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit.
I don't know if it's enthusiasm for their chances as much as just general enthusiasm among the NESCAC that they're doing things. They have traditionally been towards the bottom of their conference, so to see them go on the road as the eighth seed and win a NESCAC title has certainly gotten people talking. That being said, I do think Montclair will have its way with them.
On second thought, I will say Montclair hammers Colby, who haven't even won half their games played and statistically were dominated in their last three:
Outshot by Williams 9-3 - advance on PKs
Outshot by Amherst 7-3 - scored on all 3 shots
Outshot by Tufts 10-2 - advance on PKs
Williams... 10-5-3 (5 wins vs Ranked, but two vs Hamilton) who snuck in the 3rd NCAA release. Take that away and you have team well on the outside of the bubble. Is a .638 WP the lowest of a Pool C in recent years?
Middlebury hasn't played anyone outside of the NESCAC this year. I'd love for St. Joe's to knock them off, although I just don't see it.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2018, 11:45:01 PM
As for the criteria, selections, etc. ... again, can't speak to that. Not sure if the d3soccer guys have the same type of relationships with the committees those of us at d3football, d3hoops, d3baseball, etc. have with our respective committees (and I'm developing also with lacrosse). We have found it invaluable not only in educating and informing fans and the public ... but for the committees understanding there are people watching other than coaches who have a vested interest and will question what we believe to be mistakes. It also gives the committees (primarily the chairs) the opportunity to discuss their selections. People may not like the answers for a variety of reasons (usually personal or misinformed), but the committee at least explains things at the very least.
OK... I think that's enough from me. Time to start studying these brackets ... I've got to be ready, after-all (hint, hint).
Always appreciate your insight, Dave, but you don't have to be an insider to take exception to Southwestern jumping from #5 to #1 in the regional ranking in a one-week period without any result meriting such a sea change, at least according to majority of the objective criteria the NCAA supposedly bases their selections on.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2018, 12:34:25 PM
On second thought, I will say Montclair hammers Colby, who haven't even won half their games played and statistically were dominated in their last three:
Outshot by Williams 9-3 - advance on PKs
Outshot by Amherst 7-3 - scored on all 3 shots
Outshot by Tufts 10-2 - advance on PKs
Montclair probably will have their way with Colby, but that may not translate into a result. Colby is well organized defensively, and most opponent shots are either blocked or harmless. GK Carlson has not had to make many great saves during this run. Tufts did let them off a bit with wasted chances, but neither Amherst nor Williams had a slew of scoring opportunities. Colby is also dangerous on the counterattack.
My observation is that the official shot totals may not be totally reliable . . .
All that said, Colby has not had to play from behind, so if Montclair scores first, that may be all they need.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 06, 2018, 12:53:14 PM
Williams... 10-5-3 (5 wins vs Ranked, but two vs Hamilton) who snuck in the 3rd NCAA release. Take that away and you have team well on the outside of the bubble. Is a .638 WP the lowest of a Pool C in recent years?
Middlebury hasn't played anyone outside of the NESCAC this year. I'd love for St. Joe's to knock them off, although I just don't see it.
St. Joe's is fully capable of knocking off Middlebury if St. Joe's plays their usual game.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2018, 12:34:25 PM
On second thought, I will say Montclair hammers Colby, who haven't even won half their games played and statistically were dominated in their last three:
Outshot by Williams 9-3 - advance on PKs
Outshot by Amherst 7-3 - scored on all 3 shots
Outshot by Tufts 10-2 - advance on PKs
I didn't necessarily predict competitive....I said interesting, because MSU is a powerhouse and no one expected Colby to be anywhere near the tournament, but they are....AFTER advancing past Tufts (at Tufts), Amherst (at Amherst) and Williams. They don't need to win the statistical battle to get a result.
Sure, one likely scenario is Montclair is rolling after destroying Ramapo and especially at home will crush a Colby side that is probably exhausted, feels they already won a championship, and may have a hard time matching the efforts they had in the NESCAC tourney. Is it possible for Colby to show up with the same intensity they showed over the past week?
On the other hand, and I was about to post this just before you posted....Montclair is probably the most difficult to predict team in the tournament. They could storm their way into the Final Four routing teams 4-0, 5-0, 3-0 OR they could have a meltdown in the middle of a game and lose 1st round or 2nd round. Neither would surprise me, but the latter is as close to likely as the former.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 06, 2018, 01:19:51 PM
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 06, 2018, 12:53:14 PM
Williams... 10-5-3 (5 wins vs Ranked, but two vs Hamilton) who snuck in the 3rd NCAA release. Take that away and you have team well on the outside of the bubble. Is a .638 WP the lowest of a Pool C in recent years?
Middlebury hasn't played anyone outside of the NESCAC this year. I'd love for St. Joe's to knock them off, although I just don't see it.
St. Joe's is fully capable of knocking off Middlebury if St. Joe's plays their usual game.
St. Joe's is fully capable of knocking off
anyone, as far as I can tell from the results they've produced this year. You don't get those lopsided statistics, especially the hugely impressive defensive statistics, simply with mirrors. Now, I haven't seen them play more than 15 minutes, so I'm not saying they remind me of the Middlebury team (with Casey Ftorek and supporting cast) that won it all without scoring a single goal in the Final Four. I'm not saying that. I have no idea how their style compares with that Midd team. But, the numbers suggest that, like Midd, they seem capable of entirely closing down opponents' scoring opportunities. Midd yielded 8 goals that season, against NESCAC level competition plus the tournament (in which they gave up zero goals in 5 games). If the Monks can come close to duplicating that--and I think they can--they are a Final Four team at worst.
Quote from: rudy on November 06, 2018, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2018, 11:20:56 AM
Bracket musings....
I agree that at first blush at least Chicago looks to have the easiest path among the "big four." That said, I'm guessing that impression is largely influenced by looking at the bottom half of Chicago quad where there does not appear to be any major challenge in an Elite 8 game. They have to get there, and assuming they get Carleton and then Trinity (or maybe MHB), those could be tricky games (and of course Trinity is familiar with the Maroons from their early season 3-3 draw). The bottom half of the quad also presents a great opportunity for several teams (Luther, GAC, St Thomas, Augsburg, Knox, etc) to have a nice run and then take a swing at Chicago or whoever get to the Elite 8 from the top.
Calvin's quad has some good teams but I don't see anyone that would worry them a ton, especially at their place. A CWRU-Capital 2nd round game would be interesting as I believe they had a 1 goal OT game earlier. A big question is whether Chewy Gordon will even play or be effective if he does. A Kenyon-CMU game would be a very good 2nd round dogfight but Centre also is on a roll. Lyco versus John Carroll would be a very competitive 2nd round game. Kenyon, CMU, Lyco and John Carroll would all have a chance against Calvin but Calvin would be pretty clearly favored in each scenario.
Some of the best 1st rounds games are on the other half of the bracket.....Midd vs St. Joe's, Montclair-Colby should be fascinating, Haverford-NYU, definitely W&L and Hopkins, SLU versus Brockport, Eastern and Mary Washington, and even F&M versus high-octane Western Conn.
Messiah will have a good 2nd round game with either W&L or JHU, and then could face the winner of a Cortland St-Williams clash. I could see several teams emerging from the bottom half, so while that lower half has several very good teams (UR, SLU, F&M, Eastern, MW, etc) Messiah will only have to face one of them. Hard to predict which team that will be.
I don't see Tufts having too much trouble with Stevens or Gordon, especially at home. The Sweet 16 game, though, with either Midd, St Joe's or Amherst will pose a significant challenge. I like Conn College's draw in the bottom half of that quad at least to the Sweet 16 (although Fala from Ramapo might be a problem especially if Conn can't score). Then again, Ramapo might not get by Springfield. The winner of a projected Haverford-Montclair beauty would like their chances getting all the way to the Final Four, especially if Tufts is not there to meet one of them in the Elite 8.
Good summary. I think Stevens Institute could give Tufts a game. They beat Haverford. They were not a cakewalk last year at Messiah. I wouldn't underestimate them if they get by first game against Gordon.
You might be right. I know virtually nothing about Stevens. Tufts, though, to counter what I said about Montclair, may be the most consistent team in the tournament, at least on par with Messiah and Calvin. Stevens (or Gordon) will have to play a near-perfect game and get a bounce or two. Tufts also should be chomping at the bit to come out flying....2 weeks without a game and also waiting out the 1st round (plus getting to scout).
If the bracket can be read consistently, I just realized that CWRU may be the top seed in that quad with Calvin second, so if CWRU gets through the weekend the Spartans would be in line to be Sectional hosts. Big difference as CWRU is turf on a football versus the natural grass as Calvin. If someone knows, please confirm or correct.
1970s....will Colby fly or bus to NJ? Long trip. Are you going?
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 06, 2018, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2018, 11:45:01 PM
As for the criteria, selections, etc. ... again, can't speak to that. Not sure if the d3soccer guys have the same type of relationships with the committees those of us at d3football, d3hoops, d3baseball, etc. have with our respective committees (and I'm developing also with lacrosse). We have found it invaluable not only in educating and informing fans and the public ... but for the committees understanding there are people watching other than coaches who have a vested interest and will question what we believe to be mistakes. It also gives the committees (primarily the chairs) the opportunity to discuss their selections. People may not like the answers for a variety of reasons (usually personal or misinformed), but the committee at least explains things at the very least.
OK... I think that's enough from me. Time to start studying these brackets ... I've got to be ready, after-all (hint, hint).
Always appreciate your insight, Dave, but you don't have to be an insider to take exception to Southwestern jumping from #5 to #1 in the regional ranking in a one-week period without any result meriting such a sea change, at least according to majority of the objective criteria the NCAA supposedly bases their selections on.
Ron - I just haven't had the time to be able to study each rankings, talk with individuals to get an understanding of what's going on, and make my own conclusions. I have been busy trying to get the bills paid and have gigs. I don't mean that as a dismissive statement, I'm just saying ... I'll take your word for it at this point. I just don't have enough information myself to say if that statement, or interpretation, is right or wrong. :)
You know me, I can give you a breakdown in football, basketball, and lacrosse ... I thought about wading into soccer this year, but I also got enough work to keep me focused on other things (like calling soccer games LOL). Good in that token, unfortunate for my regional ranking watching efforts. :)
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2018, 12:34:25 PM
On second thought, I will say Montclair hammers Colby, who haven't even won half their games played and statistically were dominated in their last three:
Outshot by Williams 9-3 - advance on PKs
Outshot by Amherst 7-3 - scored on all 3 shots
Outshot by Tufts 10-2 - advance on PKs
Colby will not be intimated by playing Montclair State. They just played Tufts at Tufts on the turf and withstood 39 shots (11 on goal - I think) with several of them being quality chances. Colby has size, is well organized in the back, and has a very good keeper in Carlson. The longer the game goes scoreless (or if Colby scores first like they did against Amherst) they will make it very difficult for MSU.
Also, the St. Joe's match up with Middlebury will be a great one. Middlebury has a very good starting 11 (assuming they get decent goal-tending in this game). I don't expect St. Joe's to put 11 behind the ball like they did at Tufts last year. I think St. Joe's goes right at Midd and plays them straight up. They are a confident group with Tournament experience and will be playing with a chip on their shoulder. The committee has made it a possibility that St. Joe's could have to go through at least 2, 3, and potentially all 4 of the top NESCAC teams from the regular season to get to the Final 4. If the Monks were able to do that it would be one of the great Tournament stories of all time (at least for Mainers).
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2018, 02:20:35 PM
If the bracket can be read consistently, I just realized that CWRU may be the top seed in that quad with Calvin second, so if CWRU gets through the weekend the Spartans would be in line to be Sectional hosts. Big difference as CWRU is turf on a football versus the natural grass as Calvin. If someone knows, please confirm or correct.
I believe it's the most centralized location that gets to host. CWRU fits that bill....
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2018, 02:37:33 PM
1970s....will Colby fly or bus to NJ? Long trip. Are you going?
I believe they will bus, as it is probably only 7 hours (400 miles); that's closer than Hamilton (Clinton, NY) from Waterville, which is always a bus trip.
I don't plan to go at this time, although from Providence area, it's only about 200 miles -- I made that trip through NYC so many times for youth soccer tourneys that I avoid it now whenever I can. However, if there is another miracle Saturday, I might not be able to resist for Sunday . . .
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 06, 2018, 03:15:28 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 06, 2018, 02:20:35 PM
If the bracket can be read consistently, I just realized that CWRU may be the top seed in that quad with Calvin second, so if CWRU gets through the weekend the Spartans would be in line to be Sectional hosts. Big difference as CWRU is turf on a football versus the natural grass as Calvin. If someone knows, please confirm or correct.
I believe it's the most centralized location that gets to host. CWRU fits that bill....
Relatively speaking. If everyone is within the 500 mile radius and the committee has no other reasons to change it, the higher regionally ranked, or better criteria, team will host. There are many times that due to those mileage issues the game will be put at the most geographically logical location. There are also times when schools decide they can't host or if both men and women have teams in contention when the odd/even year rules will kick in.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2018, 12:34:25 PM
On second thought, I will say Montclair hammers Colby, who haven't even won half their games played and statistically were dominated in their last three:
Outshot by Williams 9-3 - advance on PKs
Outshot by Amherst 7-3 - scored on all 3 shots
Outshot by Tufts 10-2 - advance on PKs
Colby will continue to play the way they have throughout the conference tournament. It still befuddles me how people just make this random pronouncements about teams without ever seeing a team play, their style, their players, their weaknesses,etc etc...You cannot base your opinion of a team just by looking at statistics IMO. Yes you can get an idea MAYBE about a team but not a clear picture. I would be happy to take your wager on a 3-0 MSU result......NJAC teams the past few years have a history of really under performing in the tournament. Think Cabrini over Rowan. I have not seen MSU this year but Colby is so organized defensively MSU will not open them up. They have the 2nd/3rd best GK in Nescac. They are in a tight 4-2-3-1 with very quick pesky skilled wingers. They have two workhorses holding. They have long throws, they have 3 guys over 6'7 to get on the end of them. I could go on....Will they advance? I have no idea...but they play ugly better than anyone is playing ugly right now plus they can counter very well. They will just sit and absorb pressure for 90 minutes if need be and try to steal a goal. MSU will like urself will have studied Colby's record and stats and some of these Jersey kids will be way over confident going into the game. Not all of them but some which is enough...Colby will not be tired...are u kidding me they are psyched to still be practicing and playing and will be jacked and have had a week of rest. The one thing that is against them is the unfamiliarity with NJAC teams and NCAA play but I do not see that being much of a problem...MSU must come out and get a quick goal or two to get Colby out of its shell as that will be the only way to open them up. I agree with whoever said they bloclk a ton of shots and if they cannot block them they have a legit GK to bail them out. The game will go either way and be won by one goal....but you do seem confident so I would be happy to get some action on that 3 goal line you have predicted...... I would go up to maybe 1,000 biscuits tops....
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2018, 12:10:57 AM
It still befuddles me how people just make this random pronouncements about teams without ever seeing a team play, their style, their players, their weaknesses,etc etc...You cannot base your opinion of a team just by looking at statistics IMO.
Disagree. If you haven't seen a team play, then what else can you base your prediction upon? And for the record, I did watch the NESCAC championship, and hence my quote from upthread "I don't understand all the love for Colby".
QuoteNJAC teams the past few years have a history of really under performing in the tournament. Think Cabrini over Rowan.
That's a huge reach. Rowan outplayed and outshot Cabrini 42-2 and lost in OT on a set piece. They win that game 99/100 times.
QuoteI have not seen MSU this year
I have, multiple times. They are legit. I'm not saying they're a shoe-in to win it all, but they can cause a lot of damage. They're coming into the tournament on a hot streak, having scored 18 goals in their last 4 games. They're playing on home turf and will play a team making an 8 hour bus drive. I don't think they'll be overconfident, but rather psyched themselves to be back in the tournament after a rare miss last season.
QuoteThe game will go either way and be won by one goal
I'll see your 1,000 biscut tops and raise you 1,000 that it's not a 1 goal game.
I never trust MSU in the tournament, although I traditionally have high expectations.
2016: a 5-1 drubbing by CNU in the opening round,
2015: blowing a 2 goal lead vs Daniel Webster in the opening round, escaping 3-2
conceding 2 goals in the final 10 to Tufts, losing 3-2
2014: a 3-0 loss to Stevens in the opening round.
2013: Miseri equalizes with a few minutes left and forces PKs in the opening round. MSU advanced to Elite 8 and Camden jumped all over them scoring twice in the first 10 minutes. Showed some grit and almost equalized late in 2nd half.
Colby has all the momentum in the world and this should make for a physical, entertaining game. This is a one that I'd love to watch, but I'll be working instead.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2018, 12:10:57 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 06, 2018, 12:34:25 PM
On second thought, I will say Montclair hammers Colby, who haven't even won half their games played and statistically were dominated in their last three:
Outshot by Williams 9-3 - advance on PKs
Outshot by Amherst 7-3 - scored on all 3 shots
Outshot by Tufts 10-2 - advance on PKs
Colby will continue to play the way they have throughout the conference tournament. It still befuddles me how people just make this random pronouncements about teams without ever seeing a team play, their style, their players, their weaknesses,etc etc...You cannot base your opinion of a team just by looking at statistics IMO. Yes you can get an idea MAYBE about a team but not a clear picture. I would be happy to take your wager on a 3-0 MSU result......NJAC teams the past few years have a history of really under performing in the tournament. Think Cabrini over Rowan. I have not seen MSU this year but Colby is so organized defensively MSU will not open them up. They have the 2nd/3rd best GK in Nescac. They are in a tight 4-2-3-1 with very quick pesky skilled wingers. They have two workhorses holding. They have long throws, they have 3 guys over 6'7 to get on the end of them. I could go on....Will they advance? I have no idea...but they play ugly better than anyone is playing ugly right now plus they can counter very well. They will just sit and absorb pressure for 90 minutes if need be and try to steal a goal. MSU will like urself will have studied Colby's record and stats and some of these Jersey kids will be way over confident going into the game. Not all of them but some which is enough...Colby will not be tired...are u kidding me they are psyched to still be practicing and playing and will be jacked and have had a week of rest. The one thing that is against them is the unfamiliarity with NJAC teams and NCAA play but I do not see that being much of a problem...MSU must come out and get a quick goal or two to get Colby out of its shell as that will be the only way to open them up. I agree with whoever said they bloclk a ton of shots and if they cannot block them they have a legit GK to bail them out. The game will go either way and be won by one goal....but you do seem confident so I would be happy to get some action on that 3 goal line you have predicted...... I would go up to maybe 1,000 biscuits tops....
I hope you are correct that Colby will be just as jacked up as they must have been in Amherst this past weekend. My concern would be that are coming off a huge high for their team and program, and they did everything the hard way....on the road versus perennial powerhouses Tufts and Amherst and then historical powerhouse Williams, with two of those games going the full 110 minutes. They already have achieved a historical accomplishment for their program. A letdown would be natural and we see that all the time in like the NCAA bball tournament when a team pulls off a colossal upset or two. On the other hand, perhaps the rush they are experiencing will continue as you suggest and I have no doubt that they are highly motivated to show well. And as I already noted, Montclair is a major wild card all by itself. Certainly it's hard to imagine better preparation for playing a very athletic, physical and talented NJAC squad like MSU than just competing with Tufts and Amherst (and Williams in the NESCAC final).
This is unrelated to other topics and is a bit wishful but it relates to the U Chicago section of the bracket.
For any neutrals interested in some good D3 soccer, we should all hope for a Luther vs. U Chicago Elite 8 match up. Most of my knowledge comes from the North region and the MIAC for reference.
Luther is the best team in the North region, they easily handled teams such as GAC, UST, and Mac. They also play a great brand of possession/attacking soccer not often seen at any level in college. They have a good chance at an Elite 8 run just like Chicago does.
So, if this match up happens I highly encourage people to check this game out. It could easily be the game of the year when it comes to two teams playing actually soccer and attacking each other head on. This for me was the most exciting revelation I had when the bracket came out.
Quote from: MinnesotaSoccer10 on November 07, 2018, 09:55:49 AM
This is unrelated to other topics and is a bit wishful but it relates to the U Chicago section of the bracket.
For any neutrals interested in some good D3 soccer, we should all hope for a Luther vs. U Chicago Elite 8 match up. Most of my knowledge comes from the North region and the MIAC for reference.
Luther is the best team in the North region, they easily handled teams such as GAC, UST, and Mac. They also play a great brand of possession/attacking soccer not often seen at any level in college. They have a good chance at an Elite 8 run just like Chicago does.
So, if this match up happens I highly encourage people to check this game out. It could easily be the game of the year when it comes to two teams playing actually soccer and attacking each other head on. This for me was the most exciting revelation I had when the bracket came out.
I thought Luther was pretty impressive when I watched them as well. Their coach (a Trinity Alum) has done a nice job recruiting talented players and implementing a possession style of play. they have a senior laiden team, with tournament experience. I suspect a match up against Chicago would be very entertaining...
With that said. I think Carleton will give Chicago quite a game (assuming they take care of biz vs. Transylvania). The Carl's have only lost 1 game this year and are VERY organized and opportunistic. They have flown under the radar and played the role of underdog all year. So they should feel very comfortable coming into that match and I'm certain they will come into the tournament with a little chip on their shoulder. I could see the Carl's sneaking out a 1-0 win vs Chicago, or even taking this one to PK's if they can execute their game plan.
Quote from: MinnesotaSoccer10 on November 07, 2018, 09:55:49 AM
This is unrelated to other topics and is a bit wishful but it relates to the U Chicago section of the bracket.
For any neutrals interested in some good D3 soccer, we should all hope for a Luther vs. U Chicago Elite 8 match up. Most of my knowledge comes from the North region and the MIAC for reference.
Luther is the best team in the North region, they easily handled teams such as GAC, UST, and Mac. They also play a great brand of possession/attacking soccer not often seen at any level in college. They have a good chance at an Elite 8 run just like Chicago does.
So, if this match up happens I highly encourage people to check this game out. It could easily be the game of the year when it comes to two teams playing actually soccer and attacking each other head on. This for me was the most exciting revelation I had when the bracket came out.
I agree with this, mostly. It certainly would be an attractive soccer game to watch. I think Chicago has a clear advantage in talent here, however. As a Luther grad I would love to see the Norse get to this point. But having watched Loras against both I just think Chicago would be too much to handle.
I'm hoping for a Calvin v UW-Platteville game so high school teammates Bitter and McCaw can play against each other in their senior season. I'm sure Loras is bummed that those two chose to leave Dubuque for college!
Good to get info on Luther and Carleton. Any further details appreciated, and also any insights into Southwestern, MHB, Augsburg, St Thomas, Pac Lutheran, Wisc-Superior, Wisc-Platteville and GAC. And what about Knox? Will Luther definitely get by the Prairie Fire (in running for best nickname/mascot)?
MinnesotaSoccer is right about Luther. They are a great team to play against and watch. Much more enjoyable than Loras branded soccer.
Augsburg has relied on their big center back for most of the goals. Look for him (#20) on set plays. They have some good midfielders too. Vang (#8) is a creative player and good with the ball on his foot. He can be dangerous if teams defend poorly against him.
St. Thomas is an extremely young team. Very few players with NCAA game experience on the roster. Many playing now have watched the games in the past but are new to the field. St. Thomas has the players to do well but have struggled to score on offense. Their naivety and inability to score might be their downfall. They have a good goalkeeper who can keep them in games, e.g North Park last year.
A Carleton-Chicago game would be interesting to watch. Carleton is well coached and very disciplined as Gustie has said. May pose to be difficult for Chicago to break down.
More musings....
No doubt East Coast bias plays a role but the right side of the bracket looks to be significantly tougher than the left, with the caveat that Chicago and Calvin are as likely to win the whole thing as anyone.
On the worst/most challenging draws front, we've already made mention of W&L and Hopkins. SLU stands out...Brockport and then likely Rochester (at Rochester). St Joseph's was served no favors and probably wishes they could switch places with fellow Maine squad, Thomas. The Monks are lined up with Middlebury, Amherst and presumably Tufts...quite a NESCAC gauntlet. Haverford and NYU also grabbed short straws, facing each other to advance on paper to Montclair. Montclair has a sneaky tough draw as well. The good news is that they don't face Tufts in the first two rounds, but they get Cinderella and then the winner of the aforementioned Haverford-NYU tilt. I won't be surprised at all if Montclair doesn't escape the weekend.
Some very good, perhaps under the radar, opening round matches include SLU-Brockport, Ramapo-Springfield and Eastern-Mary Washington.
The most interesting matchups on the left side of the bracket would seem to be potential 2nd round clashes....Carleton-Chicago, Trinity-MHB/Southwestern, Luther-GAC, CWRU-Capital, Kenyon-CMU and John Carroll-Lycoming.
Tufts has a very different road than in recent years, including their 2014 and 2016 championship years. In 2014 they had to go through the Mid-Atlantic (Muhlenberg and Messiah), in 2015 Montclair and Kenyon, and 2016 Rowan, UMass-Boston and Kenyon. In 2017, amazingly the first time they hosted the first weekend, they got St. Joe's, Hopkins and Brandeis. This is the first year the Jumbo path has a distinctly NESCAC flavor with Middlebury or Amherst potential Sweet 16 foes (along with St. Joseph's) and potential for an Elite 8 game with Conn College. Maybe (and this all assumes they will get by Stevens/Gordon) they won't care about re-matches with NESCACs but I do think they enjoyed playing new and different teams in the Mid-Atlantic, South Atlantic and Midwest where the latter squads probably did not know what to expect like fellow NESCAC teams would. Of course it's also very, very possible that for the Elite 8 Montclair or Haverford might be waiting instead of Conn. All that said, there's not a single team in that quad that would make me bet against Tufts.
I am very curious to see who emerges to the Elite 8 from the bottom right part of the bracket....Rochester, SLU, or F&M...or an under the radar side like Brockport, Eastern or MW. The first three cited all have gotten to Sweet 16s and Elite 8s in recent years but have failed to break through. F&M has lost twice in the Elite 8, first in 2013 to Messiah and again in 2016 to Calvin. Both losses IIRC were identical 4-1 scorelines and both were played on iconic Shoemaker Field.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2018, 12:41:17 PM
I am very curious to see who emerges to the Elite 8 from the bottom right part of the bracket....Rochester, SLU, or F&M...or an under the radar side like Brockport, Eastern or MW. The first three cited all have gotten to Sweet 16s and Elite 8s in recent years but have failed to break through. F&M has lot twice in the Elite 8, first in 2013 to Messiah and again in 2016 to Calvin. Both losses IIRC were identical 4-1 scorelines and both were played on iconic Shoemaker Field.
Rochester is an interesting one. They have played kind of ugly the last couple of years, utilizing the long throw in particular, but have been effective. Last year I did not see them doing much after losing Greblick and Ben Swanger but out of nowhere Geoff Rouin scored 14 goals and was named All-American. This year after losing that scoring punch (he and Di Perna were most of their offense) I
really didn't see them doing much — Ikeda and Cooley are the two players I thought would be decent — but they have chugged along this year and gotten some big results and have had a very well-balanced offense. The one "blip" was that they lost at home to Case and tied Emory on the road (sandwiched around a win over CMU) to close out the regular season. Regardless, even with a lack of star names, they are always a tough bunch and I see that continuing this year.
Paul - how do you say "East Coast bias?" I am genuianely curious. A vast majority of DIII schools and programs are from the Appalachains eastward ... I tend to think of that as simply mathematics, not bias.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
Paul - how do you say "East Coast bias?" I am genuianely curious. A vast majority of DIII schools and programs are from the Appalachains eastward ... I tend to think of that as simply mathematics, not bias.
D-Mac, I expect Paul is referring to the lens through which he is viewing the bracket . . .
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 07, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
Paul - how do you say "East Coast bias?" I am genuianely curious. A vast majority of DIII schools and programs are from the Appalachains eastward ... I tend to think of that as simply mathematics, not bias.
D-Mac, I expect Paul is referring to the lens through which he is viewing the bracket . . .
Yeah - I'm trying to grasp the lens. There are a lot of people who talk about "east coast" bias in many sports in DIII. That isn't accurate when you look at the math. It makes it sound like the smaller proportion should somehow have more weight. If one looks at the map of Division III and where schools are located, they will see a huge tilt to the right.
That is why the Northeast has so many ranked teams - they have a huge number of schools within the borders of the region (even when an effort was made, and will be made again, to redraw those borders). There isn't anything that can be done about the geographical location of Division III institutions. Not when half of the geographic country has a handful of schools in comparison to the other half.
But again ... I want to understand better the lens Paul is looking through to understand what he means by bias. I do appreciate it could have a completely different meaning.
Quote from: D3Grad on November 07, 2018, 12:11:44 PM
MinnesotaSoccer is right about Luther. They are a great team to play against and watch. Much more enjoyable than Loras branded soccer.
Augsburg has relied on their big center back for most of the goals. Look for him (#20) on set plays. They have some good midfielders too. Vang (#8) is a creative player and good with the ball on his foot. He can be dangerous if teams defend poorly against him.
St. Thomas is an extremely young team. Very few players with NCAA game experience on the roster. Many playing now have watched the games in the past but are new to the field. St. Thomas has the players to do well but have struggled to score on offense. Their naivety and inability to score might be their downfall. They have a good goalkeeper who can keep them in games, e.g North Park last year.
A Carleton-Chicago game would be interesting to watch. Carleton is well coached and very disciplined as Gustie has said. May pose to be difficult for Chicago to break down.
I agree with a lot of this.
Augsburg the past few years has tried to play a possession oriented style, but they just have not had enough quality players to truly be threatening with it. They can be exposed if the opposing team has an organized press. This year it seems they have gutted out some results, including all of the MIAC playoff games. I watched them all and I would say they deserved to lose all of them IMO. #20 is a D2 transfer CB who is like 6'5" and has 7 goals, he's a solid defender as well. #8 Vang is a top class player. The problem is that he is pretty much all of their creativity, even though he is good enough to supply that in any game. I could see them losing to UW Superior in the first round, but if they advance I cannot imagine they can beat UST again. They beat UST in the playoffs in a S/O after being up a man fro 80mins of regulation and all of extra time. During which UST was the better and more threatening team.
St. Thomas lost a lot last year, and had to fill in with a lot of freshmen. Granted, they did bring in some talent, but not enough to cover their losses. I think they were given an easy pod of 4 and should advance, especially since they are hosting. One thing too is they have 3 top goalkeepers for a D3 team. Which is unfortunate since you can only start 1, but I would say those 3 are probably all in or around the top 5 keepers in the MIAC.
Gustavus has been grinding out results all year. They got a new coach this year, who has done very well with this team especially since there is a very low influence of freshman who have played. You can tell they are still working out some kinks though. They have been looking to build from the back (4-3-3 pushing FBs very high and wide, splitting the CB's and dropping a CDM in between them. From this, they do not connect with their midfield much and usually try and hit a long ball and find the second ball. It is odd, and I think in the coming years this team will see more fluidity in possession as the coach has more time to train his players and recruit players of his won. With that, they have kept a lot of clean sheets and have some individual quality in #12 Parens and #17 Gibbons who are both around the tops in the conference for points. I would expect them to advance in the first game over Dominican (although I am ignorant to Dominican's quality), and to lose to Luther who are the best team in the region as I have stated before.
Carleton: I have not watched them this much this season, but when I did I was not very impressed. But they kept getting results, they did play a terrible non conference schedule, but still got good results in the MIAC. They are always organized and play direct, but it seems this year the difference is they have someone who has been scoring goals for them in #9 da Cunha. If they play Chicago I could see them getting smacked to be honest, I do no think they are great so I disagree with GustieFan on this one.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 07, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
Paul - how do you say "East Coast bias?" I am genuianely curious. A vast majority of DIII schools and programs are from the Appalachains eastward ... I tend to think of that as simply mathematics, not bias.
D-Mac, I expect Paul is referring to the lens through which he is viewing the bracket . . .
Yeah - I'm trying to grasp the lens. There are a lot of people who talk about "east coast" bias in many sports in DIII. That isn't accurate when you look at the math. It makes it sound like the smaller proportion should somehow have more weight. If one looks at the map of Division III and where schools are located, they will see a huge tilt to the right.
That is why the Northeast has so many ranked teams - they have a huge number of schools within the borders of the region (even when an effort was made, and will be made again, to redraw those borders). There isn't anything that can be done about the geographical location of Division III institutions. Not when half of the geographic country has a handful of schools in comparison to the other half.
But again ... I want to understand better the lens Paul is looking through to understand what he means by bias. I do appreciate it could have a completely different meaning.
Per usual....different wavelengths for you and me.
1970s was correct....I was trying to show some deference for the possibility that I might have some bias, as some posters even just within the last few days have made sarcastic comments about "all the Pool Cs" going to the East Coast, to some degree in concert with all of the laments about mid-table NESCACs and UAAs getting into the tournament. I also by using that intro was covering myself because I indeed do not know a ton about some of the Central, much of the North, and the West (other than what most might guess about Trinity, Whitworth, Colorado Coll, etc based on recent years). I do in fact view the right side of bracket as "tougher" with a greater number of more competitive teams, but given that the left side has so many from less familiar regions I wanted to leave room for others and especially posters from those regions to counter and/or correct me.
P.S. And also sensitive to the board being dominated by East Coasters....especially the New England, Mid-Atlantic, and to some degree South Atlantic contingents....and over the years I have urged more viewers of the site from other regions to become more active posters.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 07, 2018, 07:41:46 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2018, 12:10:57 AM
It still befuddles me how people just make this random pronouncements about teams without ever seeing a team play, their style, their players, their weaknesses,etc etc...You cannot base your opinion of a team just by looking at statistics IMO.
Disagree. If you haven't seen a team play, then what else can you base your prediction upon? And for the record, I did watch the NESCAC championship, and hence my quote from upthread "I don't understand all the love for Colby".
QuoteNJAC teams the past few years have a history of really under performing in the tournament. Think Cabrini over Rowan.
That's a huge reach. Rowan outplayed and outshot Cabrini 42-2 and lost in OT on a set piece. They win that game 99/100 times.
QuoteI have not seen MSU this year
I have, multiple times. They are legit. I'm not saying they're a shoe-in to win it all, but they can cause a lot of damage. They're coming into the tournament on a hot streak, having scored 18 goals in their last 4 games. They're playing on home turf and will play a team making an 8 hour bus drive. I don't think they'll be overconfident, but rather psyched themselves to be back in the tournament after a rare miss last season.
QuoteThe game will go either way and be won by one goal
I'll see your 1,000 biscut tops and raise you 1,000 that it's not a 1 goal game.
But Rowan DID lose that game and based on your theory of predicting how a team will do based on stats you would have predicted that Rowan defeat Cabrini by a score of 8-0. Rowan was completely over confiedent going into that game and most likely the players felt they could show up and win that game but they did not. Rowan was highly overrated in 2017 and I watched a ton of NJAC games last season. Did I think they would lose to Cabrini? Hell no. I had watched RUN a lot more last season than Rowan and had been saying all year last season how good I thought RUN was but they ran into a Brandeis buzzsaw in the NCAA 2nd Round last year and were knocked out. However, the kid who followed the NJAC the most last year was the former RUC player that was one of their key players in their NCAA Final run in 2013(I cannot remember his handle and he has not been on here this year posting) had been telling anyone that would listen last season how overrated Rowan actually was.
It is just my opinion that the NJAC has dropped off ever since RUC 2013 Final run and MSU Final 4 run in 2011. I cannot remember a NJAC team reaching an Elite 8 since 2013. I am not sure what the reason is for the drop off but my point is since I have not seen MSU play this season I would never predict the game against Colby. I could only guess the result and the reasoning for my prediction but I would premise my comments with that instead of pounding my chest with certainties about MSU. If I am wrong I would admit that but I am GUESSING that MSU does not get out of this pod this coming weekend whether its in the 1st Round or 2nd Round. I just think it is more helpful to readers to premise predictions with actual knowledge of said teams you are predicting. Just me...Everyone is different...
As far as Luther goes I watched the ARC Final and with Luther at Loras and I had seen them once during the regular season. Loras played its usual game that got them to multiple Final 4's just without the same talent. That's not to say they did not have any players because they were pretty good on the day. In fact if they were more organized defensively they would have held onto their lead and saw the game out in the 2nd Half. I will say you are correct about Luther as they were mighty entertaining especially on the counter they looked VERY dangerous. They definitely have some studs going forward and they do play the right way which is to be commended but based on that game I am not sure how good defensively they would be against the Top 4-8 teams in D3. I believe that side could score against any team in the country and I actually am hoping they advance as far as they can because they actually do try to play futbol and it is fun to watch and against the right teams you could have a total back and forth game that ends 4-3. Just my take and I could be wrong about them on defense and I will be rooting and watching them in the NCAA's.
That RUN team ran into that same Brandeis team the year before in the Elite 8
Quote from: d3commenter on November 07, 2018, 08:10:09 PM
That RUN team ran into that same Brandeis team the year before in the Elite 8
Yup....I thought that team was even a tad better than in 2016 and they were coming off a Win over Oneonta in the Sweet 16. I remember predicting that RUN might struggle because that pod was at Amherst on grass and they had not played many games in 2016 on grass but they surprised me and advanced over a pretty good Oneonta team. Brandeis ripped RUN apart in that Elite 8 match as I thought that game would be pretty tight and it was for the first 20 minutes and then Brandeis scored two goals in a minute to take a 2-0 lead. RUN got on back before the Half and it was looking like it could be a tight game again but then IIRC Brandies Lynch got a 3rd goal and RUN got a straight Red Card and it was curtains for RUN.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2018, 11:48:32 AM
Good to get info on Luther and Carleton. Any further details appreciated, and also any insights into Southwestern, MHB, Augsburg, St Thomas, Pac Lutheran, Wisc-Superior, Wisc-Platteville and GAC. And what about Knox? Will Luther definitely get by the Prairie Fire (in running for best nickname/mascot)?
From what I've seen this year...
Southwestern lean heavily on forward Jake Swonke, who is a great finisher if given a chance. They're hard to break down and Goalkeeper Carr won Defensive MVP at the SCAC Tournament this Past weekend. Didn't concede from the run of play (kept two clean sheets, conceded on penalty against Trinity in the 110 mins, then four pens in the shootout) and defensively they're stout, but not very expansive with the ball. Set up to counter and get set pieces. Long throw causes problems too.
UMHB had a historic season last year, reaching the sweet 16. Upset Trinity in San Antonio - inspired by Their excellent head coach Brad Bankhead - in a wild game, but couldn't get past Emory. They're big and physical with a few skilful players up top. They won't be intimidated being back in SA, and won the ASC in a crazy game vs UTD 1-0 last weekend (lots of yellows and a red I believe). They'll be big and tough and a bit rough but will definitely fancy their chances vs southwestern.
The rest of that quad is intriguing too. Trinity beat Chapman 2-0 in the round of 32 in 2016, so it's a rematch there. Trinity fairly clear home favorite but Chapman won't be intimidated. Will say, Trinity vs Chicago in September was the best game I saw all year. Had everything. Two fantastic teams. I'd love to see Trinity vs Chicago in the Sweet 16, with the winner facing (probably) Luther in the Elite 8. That's three very good teams who play the right way. I'd expect one of those three to make the Final 4.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2018, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 07, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
Paul - how do you say "East Coast bias?" I am genuianely curious. A vast majority of DIII schools and programs are from the Appalachains eastward ... I tend to think of that as simply mathematics, not bias.
D-Mac, I expect Paul is referring to the lens through which he is viewing the bracket . . .
Yeah - I'm trying to grasp the lens. There are a lot of people who talk about "east coast" bias in many sports in DIII. That isn't accurate when you look at the math. It makes it sound like the smaller proportion should somehow have more weight. If one looks at the map of Division III and where schools are located, they will see a huge tilt to the right.
That is why the Northeast has so many ranked teams - they have a huge number of schools within the borders of the region (even when an effort was made, and will be made again, to redraw those borders). There isn't anything that can be done about the geographical location of Division III institutions. Not when half of the geographic country has a handful of schools in comparison to the other half.
But again ... I want to understand better the lens Paul is looking through to understand what he means by bias. I do appreciate it could have a completely different meaning.
Per usual....different wavelengths for you and me.
1970s was correct....I was trying to show some deference for the possibility that I might have some bias, as some posters even just within the last few days have made sarcastic comments about "all the Pool Cs" going to the East Coast, to some degree in concert with all of the laments about mid-table NESCACs and UAAs getting into the tournament. I also by using that intro was covering myself because I indeed do not know a ton about some of the Central, much of the North, and the West (other than what most might guess about Trinity, Whitworth, Colorado Coll, etc based on recent years). I do in fact view the right side of bracket as "tougher" with a greater number of more competitive teams, but given that the left side has so many from less familiar regions I wanted to leave room for others and especially posters from those regions to counter and/or correct me.
P.S. And also sensitive to the board being dominated by East Coasters....especially the New England, Mid-Atlantic, and to some degree South Atlantic contingents....and over the years I have urged more viewers of the site from other regions to become more active posters.
That is why I asked ... I don't think we are on different wave lengths. I simply took the opportunity I had at the time to present a thought.
I think the problem for me comes down to the word "bias" thrown around. People think when they see that word that it has to be true without knowing all the facts. Too many times when talking about that it turns out the people involved have NO idea how many schools are Appalachians and Eastward. Thus, people think there is a bias because they see stories and such more from that general area and don't appreciate that it's because 2/3s of the division is there. It is unavoidable.
I'd love to see interactions on the boards from around the country, but much like the distribution of schools in Division III, so is the population and also fan-hood of those schools. You would have to have a larger, disproportionate, portion of fanhood and posters to compensate.
That said ... in my experience the biggest chunk of posters come from the Midwest.
Quote from: Londoner on November 08, 2018, 09:41:29 AM
From what I've seen this year...
Southwestern lean heavily on forward Jake Swonke, who is a great finisher if given a chance. They're hard to break down and Goalkeeper Carr won Defensive MVP at the SCAC Tournament this Past weekend. Didn't concede from the run of play (kept two clean sheets, conceded on penalty against Trinity in the 110 mins, then four pens in the shootout) and defensively they're stout, but not very expansive with the ball. Set up to counter and get set pieces. Long throw causes problems too.
UMHB had a historic season last year, reaching the sweet 16. Upset Trinity in San Antonio - inspired by Their excellent head coach Brad Bankhead - in a wild game, but couldn't get past Emory. They're big and physical with a few skilful players up top. They won't be intimidated being back in SA, and won the ASC in a crazy game vs UTD 1-0 last weekend (lots of yellows and a red I believe). They'll be big and tough and a bit rough but will definitely fancy their chances vs southwestern.
The rest of that quad is intriguing too. Trinity beat Chapman 2-0 in the round of 32 in 2016, so it's a rematch there. Trinity fairly clear home favorite but Chapman won't be intimidated. Will say, Trinity vs Chicago in September was the best game I saw all year. Had everything. Two fantastic teams. I'd love to see Trinity vs Chicago in the Sweet 16, with the winner facing (probably) Luther in the Elite 8. That's three very good teams who play the right way. I'd expect one of those three to make the Final 4.
Great insights from a man who definitely knows his Trinity futbol - thanks, Londoner. The only thing I will add to that is the area has received a good deal of rain this morning so the field conditions could be tricky. Rain should stop in the next hour or two so there will be a little time for things to drain; cool (high of 55), cloudy, breezy the rest of the day.
I wonder if there has been a year in recent memory where the favorites seemed so favored and clearly on another level than the rest of the field. With few exceptions (and those look mostly partisan) bracket predictors are picking "the big four" -- Chicago, Calvin, Tufts and Messiah -- to land in the Final Four. I personally have viewed those four as distinct from the next tier from the beginning of the season to the end, and IMO the next tier is pretty fluid/interchangeable between teams 5 thru 16 or so.
It is also IMO difficult to pick which of "the big four" is least likely to get to Greensboro. In terms of a champion, Chicago and Calvin appear to have a good deal of sentiment behind them, and for good reason. Who, though, could argue that Messiah isn't a smart choice? And then there's steady, tough as nails Tufts who has never lost a Final Four match. In any case, if these four do make it that will be a huge treat for fans of those teams and us neutrals who will enjoy and be intrigued by how the games play out.
I wonder what the statistical odds are for none of that four making it. That would yield an intriguing Final Four in itself with a completely wide open outcome.
P.S. Yeah, I know, Messiah has never lost a Final Four match, either, with far more opportunity, right?
P.S.S. The "cmte" has received some flak over a few snubs, but let's give them credit for putting "the big four" all in separate quads (even if it wasn't intentional).
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 11:14:55 AM
I wonder if there has been a year in recent memory where the favorites seemed so favored and clearly on another level than the rest of the field. With few exceptions (and those look mostly partisan) bracket predictors are picking "the big four" -- Chicago, Calvin, Tufts and Messiah -- to land in the Final Four. I personally have viewed those four as distinct from the next tier from the beginning of the season to the end, and IMO the next tier is pretty fluid/interchangeable between teams 5 thru 16 or so.
It is also IMO difficult to pick which of "the big four" is least likely to get to Greensboro. In terms of a champion, Chicago and Calvin appear to have a good deal of sentiment behind them, and for good reason. Who, though, could argue that Messiah isn't a smart choice? And then there's steady, tough as nails Tufts who has never lost a Final Four match. In any case, if these four do make it that will be a huge treat for fans of those teams and us neutrals who will enjoy and be intrigued by how the games play out.
I wonder what the statistical odds are for none of that four making it. That would yield an intriguing Final Four in itself with a completely wide open outcome.
P.S. Yeah, I know, Messiah has never lost a Final Four match, either, with far more opportunity, right?
P.S.S. The "cmte" has received some flak over a few snubs, but let's give them credit for putting "the big four" all in separate quads (even if it wasn't intentional).
I would bet not all 4 make it but I'd also bet that at least one makes it! Probably 2. So many things have to go right to make final 4...much less win it all. Almost every game Messiah won last year in tournament was by 1 goal. Tufts made it to elite 8 without scoring a goal last year. One thing for sure we will have at least 2 different teams in final 4 than last year.
Geez, this week has moved slow waiting for the tournament.....
So....
Best nickname/mascot challenge....Final Four...Knox Prairie Fire versus Chicago Maroons; John Carroll Blue Streaks versus NYU Violets....the "color" nicknames do not advance....Championship match -- Knox Prairie Fire versus JCU Blue Streaks....Champion = Knox Prairie Fire 3-2 OT1
Honorable Mention....St Joseph's (ME) Monks and Ramapo Roadrunners
Interesting and impressive history with Chicago and 'Maroons'....
https://athletics.uchicago.edu/about/history/maroons-phoenix
And while Chicago can tout Amos Alonzo Stagg, John Carroll can counter with Don Shula and Don Shula Field.
More news and notes....the opening round match between Centre and Carnegie Mellon could be a sleeper to keep an eye on. Both coaches are Centre grads....Centre coach Jeb Burch in '94 and CMU coach Brandon Bowman in '97. Interestingly, Burch took over at Centre in 2002, the same year Bowman started an 11 year run just up the road at rival Transylvania, and according to Bowman's CMU bio Transy and Centre never played during that span. Both teams will be very familiar with the venue as Centre and CMU have played Kenyon every year or almost every year for the past handful of years. This season Kenyon beat Centre in Gambier and drew with CMU in Pittsburgh.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 08, 2018, 03:43:55 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2018, 02:55:41 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:27:09 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 07, 2018, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 07, 2018, 02:22:39 PM
Paul - how do you say "East Coast bias?" I am genuianely curious. A vast majority of DIII schools and programs are from the Appalachains eastward ... I tend to think of that as simply mathematics, not bias.
D-Mac, I expect Paul is referring to the lens through which he is viewing the bracket . . .
Yeah - I'm trying to grasp the lens. There are a lot of people who talk about "east coast" bias in many sports in DIII. That isn't accurate when you look at the math. It makes it sound like the smaller proportion should somehow have more weight. If one looks at the map of Division III and where schools are located, they will see a huge tilt to the right.
That is why the Northeast has so many ranked teams - they have a huge number of schools within the borders of the region (even when an effort was made, and will be made again, to redraw those borders). There isn't anything that can be done about the geographical location of Division III institutions. Not when half of the geographic country has a handful of schools in comparison to the other half.
But again ... I want to understand better the lens Paul is looking through to understand what he means by bias. I do appreciate it could have a completely different meaning.
Per usual....different wavelengths for you and me.
1970s was correct....I was trying to show some deference for the possibility that I might have some bias, as some posters even just within the last few days have made sarcastic comments about "all the Pool Cs" going to the East Coast, to some degree in concert with all of the laments about mid-table NESCACs and UAAs getting into the tournament. I also by using that intro was covering myself because I indeed do not know a ton about some of the Central, much of the North, and the West (other than what most might guess about Trinity, Whitworth, Colorado Coll, etc based on recent years). I do in fact view the right side of bracket as "tougher" with a greater number of more competitive teams, but given that the left side has so many from less familiar regions I wanted to leave room for others and especially posters from those regions to counter and/or correct me.
P.S. And also sensitive to the board being dominated by East Coasters....especially the New England, Mid-Atlantic, and to some degree South Atlantic contingents....and over the years I have urged more viewers of the site from other regions to become more active posters.
That is why I asked ... I don't think we are on different wave lengths. I simply took the opportunity I had at the time to present a thought.
I think the problem for me comes down to the word "bias" thrown around. People think when they see that word that it has to be true without knowing all the facts. Too many times when talking about that it turns out the people involved have NO idea how many schools are Appalachians and Eastward. Thus, people think there is a bias because they see stories and such more from that general area and don't appreciate that it's because 2/3s of the division is there. It is unavoidable.
I use what I call the AMP Line to signify the cutoff between D3's two halves. The Allegheny, Monongahela, and Potomac rivers roughly bisect the northeastern half of D3 from the rest-of-the-United-States half of D3. For those of you who are geographically challenged, the Allegheny River starts up along the western part of the New York/Pennsylvania border, running fairly close to Lake Erie before plunging southward to Pittsburgh, where it meets the Monongahela (coming up northward from West Virginia) to form the Ohio River. The Monongahela runs close to the Potomac, which of course flows from the Appalachians eastward, forming the border between Maryland (and the District of Columbia) and Virginia before emptying into Chesapeake Bay and, thus, the Atlantic Ocean.
Everything northeastward of the AMP Line -- New England, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and everything in Pennsylvania east of Pittsburgh -- contains half of the schools in D3. The other 92% or so of the lower 48 states contains the other half, with approximately two-thirds of that rest-of-the-country half concentrated in the Midwest.
This national map of D3 baseball looks pretty much the same as what the map of D3 men's soccer would look like if someone made one. (https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?dg=feature&oe=UTF8&msa=0&ie=UTF8&mid=1Yv3dOF3BINjiWEofb6ZWVbqoNkg&ll=39.19843237589509%2C-95.60881849999998&z=5)
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 08, 2018, 03:43:55 PM
I'd love to see interactions on the boards from around the country, but much like the distribution of schools in Division III, so is the population and also fan-hood of those schools. You would have to have a larger, disproportionate, portion of fanhood and posters to compensate.
That said ... in my experience the biggest chunk of posters come from the Midwest.
That's true in the other sports, but it's not true for the men's soccer section of d3boards.com. The posters for this particular sport are very heavily weighted to the northeastern side of the AMP Line.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 12:47:01 PM
And while Chicago can tout Amos Alonzo Stagg, John Carroll can counter with Don Shula and Don Shula Field.
Pats OC, Josh McDaniels, also went to John Carroll . . .
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 11:14:55 AMP.S. Yeah, I know, Messiah has never lost a Final Four match, either, with far more opportunity, right?
Don't Falcon fans wish! We'd have 15 titles instead of "only" 11 if that was the case. Lost in the semifinals three times and tied once: 1986 lost to UC San Diego 2-1 in OT, 1988 tied UC San Diego 0-0 and lost in PK shootout, 2001 lost to Redlands 2-1 in OT, and in 2007 lost 1-0 to Trinity (Tx.). And we needed a PK shootout to win the 2008 final over Stevens after a 1-1 tie. So Messiah is merely a .846-team when playing in Final Fours with a 21-3-2 record, and just 11-3-1 (.767) in semifinals. But, the Falcons have never lost in a Final (10-0-1), so they have that going for them if they can survive the semifinal.
FW,
All national title games go in the record book as a W or L if it reaches PKs...
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 09, 2018, 01:51:54 PM
FW,
All national title games go in the record book as a W or L if it reaches PKs...
This is my understanding, as well, although it may not comport with international rules, which I believe would record the champion as the winner of the shootout, but would officially consider the game a tie.
anybody have suggestions on games being played today worth watching?
Quote from: rudy on November 09, 2018, 02:21:42 PM
anybody have suggestions on games being played today worth watching?
Calvin kicks off in 14 minutes and I think it's worth a watch, if nothing else because Calvin plays some nice stuff.
IIRC Carthage plays later, 5:30.
There are some excellent fixtures on Saturday:
1:30 St. Joseph's vs Middlebury
1:30 Springfield vs Ramapo
2:30 W&L vs JHU
2:30 Augsburg vs UW-Superior
5:00 Colby vs Montclair St
5:00 WConn vs F&M
7:30 MW vs Eastern
7:30 SLU vs Brockport St
7:30 Haverford vs NYU
Yes, guys, I am well aware of how PK shootout wins are officially recorded. So, . . . Messiah won the 2008 final 1-1.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 12:47:01 PM
And while Chicago can tout Amos Alonzo Stagg, John Carroll can counter with Don Shula and Don Shula Field.
Springfield can also claim Stagg, as he coached for two years there before his 40+ year run in Chicago.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 09, 2018, 02:48:18 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 09, 2018, 02:21:42 PM
anybody have suggestions on games being played today worth watching?
Calvin kicks off in 14 minutes and I think it's worth a watch, if nothing else because Calvin plays some nice stuff.
IIRC Carthage plays later, 5:30.
Thanks. Missed Calvin game it looks like they took care I business. Yes they do play nice soccer. I'll watch second half of Carthage...close game so far.
I was just getting ready to ask if Carthage could pull off the Central Region triple.....Chicago, North Park and Calvin....and then UW-P scores two to go up 2-1. Good, entertaining game.
Remnants of snubmania.....St Norbert beat both of these teams.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 09, 2018, 01:01:00 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 08, 2018, 03:43:55 PM
I'd love to see interactions on the boards from around the country, but much like the distribution of schools in Division III, so is the population and also fan-hood of those schools. You would have to have a larger, disproportionate, portion of fanhood and posters to compensate.
That said ... in my experience the biggest chunk of posters come from the Midwest.
That's true in the other sports, but it's not true for the men's soccer section of d3boards.com. The posters for this particular sport are very heavily weighted to the northeastern side of the AMP Line.
I was talking about the boards generically. Not being too specific.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 06:57:58 PM
I was just getting ready to ask if Carthage could pull off the Central Region triple.....Chicago, North Park and Calvin....and then UW-P scores two to go up 2-1. Good, entertaining game.
Remnants of snubmania.....St Norbert beat both of these teams.
In last year's tournament North Park beat largely the same UWP side in the second round, 6-1, and it wasn't even as close as the score indicated. Logan Rinderknecht, the main offensive weapon of the Pioneers, had a hat trick tonight against Carthage. Last season against NPU he didn't even get a SOG.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 06:57:58 PM
I was just getting ready to ask if Carthage could pull off the Central Region triple.....Chicago, North Park and Calvin....and then UW-P scores two to go up 2-1. Good, entertaining game.
Remnants of snubmania.....St Norbert beat both of these teams.
Thanks for pointing this out. Must have been a tough game for SNC players to watch/follow.
Keystone unexpectedly scores off a corner kick pinball and finish to lead Case 1-0 about 15 minutes in...Case has also missed a PK in this game and are dominating possession but not the scoreboard...Keystone comes from the weak CSAC league but did beat Etown 4-3 in the first game of the year. I would be willing to bet this league has not produced an NCAA Win in years or ever?
Keystone holding on here as it is Halftime and they have a surprising 1-0 lead over Case. Looks like it is kinds trying to snow in Cleveland.
Case draws even in the first minute of the 2nd Half off a rebound from Keystone GK from a bullet....1-1
Meanwhile, Messiah is all over Baruch but still 0-0 late in the 1st Half...Baruch upset Staten Island in their league as they were not even the best team in that league. Once Messiah gets one I am sure the floodgates will open.
Baruch looks organized defensively in what looks to be a tight 5-4-1....
Messiah finally gets one off a rip and a GK save but a juicy rebound is finished when the GK left his net to go after the rebound and did not dive on the ball and Messiah beat the GK to the ball and crossed an easy pass near the goalline and it was an easy finish. Should be ballgame 1-0 Messiah almost Halftime...
So really now the only surprise at this point is Case still level with Keystone 1-1 about 10-15 minutes into 2nd Half.
Enjoying the Flying Weasel halftime update...
Case takes a late 2-1 lead over Keystone and were lucky they were not called offside as it was close....Keystone was not bad 1st Half but 2nd Half they have died off but still about 10 minutes left.
What a hit by Case #23 with 2 minutes left to give Case a 3-1 Win over Keystone...2 minutes left and Keystone was pushing #'s but could not find that tying goal. I will say Keystone had a couple skilled players but their GK went to punt the ball and hit it just outside the box so Case got an indirect free kick and Case with a beauty of a play as one player just touched it an inch and #23 ripped a bullet right underneath the crossbar as the GK had no chance. One of the better set pieces I have seen this year. 3-1 Case moves on to play probably Capital tomorrow. Nice stream in Cleveland today.
Stevens and Gordon look relatively even here in Meffid...Stevens a bit better technically with some nice combinations but Gordon holding its own. One thing somewhat concerning for Gordon is the keeper has called for a few crosses but gotten nowhere near them...Stevens seems keen to exploit them on high balls.
The announcer sound like he has that closepin on his nose again....He actually is pretty good and comes up with some solid information when the ball is not in play...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 09, 2018, 06:57:58 PM
I was just getting ready to ask if Carthage could pull off the Central Region triple.....Chicago, North Park and Calvin....and then UW-P scores two to go up 2-1. Good, entertaining game.
Remnants of snubmania.....St Norbert beat both of these teams.
Not to continue beating the dead horse but I noticed St. Norbert did not schedule a single MIAC team this year. In recent years they would always have 1 or 2. Sometimes would have an IIAC team too. Looks to be the lack of scheduling may be to play. I believe if St. Norbert scheduled one of these two conferences win or lose a bid would have been given.
In other news. St. Thomas up 1-0 over Pacific Lutheran. Game is fairly even. St. Thomas scores just before halftime with a half bicycle kick.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 01:24:14 PM
The announcer sound like he has that closepin on his nose again....He actually is pretty good and comes up with some solid information when the ball is not in play...
Haha yes indeed on both points. Gordon kid with some nice moves and shoots wide. 15 left in the half.
OUCH...Stevens kid gets cleaned out by Gordon GK with both going for a high ball...Stevens kid screams as he goes down and Stevens players want a pen. Ref says no that it was an accident and being stood next to the play I agree as it looked like GK got the ball. After a nervy few minutes the kid gets up and walks off and play restarts.
Looks mad windy down there Bloots...I had seen Gordon play Colby and some of their RWU match but they look decent in this game. Not sure about their GK but your right an even game so far.
I get the sense that Stevens will dominate in the second half when they have the wind at their back.
Yes you are both right, strong winds out of the NW and Stevens will have it second half. As Winnie the Pooh would say "it's a blustery day."
St,Joe's and Midd already proving to be a physical battle as both teams are fouling like crazy. St.Joe's has to be careful not to give Midd so many set pieces in their end.
MIdd has the games first real solid chance off a set piece as a nice ball in by Barsamian goes off either Davis or Robinson's head and bangs off the post....
Still 0-0 in Meffid, windy as all hell. Stephens with most of the play and the wind the second half.
Fantastic save by the Gordon GK off a nice curler. 20 left.
Stevens #10 is a heck of a player. Nice touches and movement.
Gordon #3 goes close just wide left.
OT
2OT
St.Joe's now absorbing pressure pretty well in front of Mullen. Midd has been in St.Joe's end a ton this Half but just cannot find a tying goal. They have had a few good looks but Mullen has been up to the task. 1-0 St.Joe's about 18 minutes left.
Midd gets a GGGGOOOOOOAAAAALLLL
Midd just misses a golden chance off another set piece..Ball sent long into the back corner of the box gets headed back across the box and a wide open Aidan Robinson has a free header as he was left unmarked and his header from the 6 yard box goes just wide....
And Midd ties it up with12 minutes left. SJ gives up its second goal of the year.
PKs in Meffid
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 01:54:33 PM
Yes you are both right, strong winds out of the NW and Stevens will have it second half. As Winnie the Pooh would say "it's a blustery day."
Just got back from my son's game and I agree with this description.
Weather wasn't any nicer in West Roxbury.
WOW....Midd finally finishes a chance by their leader and Captain Daniel O'Grady has saved his team once again and his career for now...He goes streaking down the flank and gets a fantastic ball from Goulart and for some reason St.Joe's GK Mullen was off his line and he hits a beauty of a chip with his right foot as he is falling down to his left over Mullen's head....1-1 about 8 minutes left...O'Grady is such a gamer....
O'Grady rips a shot from 12 and it's just above the crossbar. For the part of the game I've seen, Midd has definitely been on the front foot.
For sure but I do not think Midd wants to go to PK's.
AND SJ TAKES THE LEAD WITH FIVE MINUTES TO GO
Jeez....St.Joe's gets a goal off a set piece and header...Hyer had no chance but Midd's defender Moffat miss timed his jump and the St.Joe's player finished it...That is really tough stuff because it looked like Midd was having their way.
Stevens on PKs, 3-1.
Bloots that ref for the Stevens/Gordon match looked like he was about 12....Maybe it was just the stream
Midd has a player sent off with 14 seconds left. Not a good way to end the season.
And St. Joe's wins.
Messiah played terrific soccer today vs Baruch, but a very strong wind against them in the first half limited their chances. West had a couple of great direct kicks, one of which was saved and the other just wide. All of his free kicks today cleared the wall, but the wind played havoc with them. A great header in close was saved by Baruch's keeper, or it would have been 2-0 at the half.
The second team scored the first goal--which was good, b/c the Falcons are now 6 or 7 men down with injuries. The first and second team RBs are gone for the season. CB Cooper Robbins is out for the weekend with a concussion. The roster is so short, that McCarty actually activated two men from the club team, both of whom played lots of minutes today. I've never seen a similar situation as long as I can remember. Four substitutes started for the Falcons today. It's obviously not an ideal time to have starters out, but what can you do? Robbins is just so important on the backline, but they will have to play JHU or W&L tomorrow without him or Joseph King in front of the keeper. Quite possibly, they won't win their own pod--but, they are mentally very tough so don't count them out.
West could have scored the second goal, when he beat two defenders on the endline and was headed for the goal, but he made a great pass to Jonathan Groothoff, who charged in from the RW and shot it hard into the left corner for the crucial second goal.
Baruch looked just awful when they had the ball, to be truthful. They did nearly score vs the Falcons' second team (with both of the taxi squad men playing), but missed wide. Otherwise they were wholly unable to possess and never threatened.
Baruch comes from maybe the second or third worst league in the country and they were not even the best team in the league. That league is AWFUL and was basically a bye for Messiah without an actual bye.
Carnegie Mellon and Centre look to be in 2OT heading to PK's.....
Falconer.. definitely tough to not have Cooper for the weekend. One good thing I saw was freshman Luke K played. He had started some games before getting injured. David Alejos also played some. I hope to see more of Britt in game tomorrow...he brings a lot of energy and toughness and has a nose for the net. It will be a tight game against either team tomorrow but Messiah still has enough firepower to move on. West is due for a goal so you can count on him getting one..
WCONN at F&M about to kickoff as well....Curious to see if WCONN can keep up the solid play. They can attack but they are not so solid on the defensive end and can be shaky in net....This will be a tough match-up for them but they do have Chauncey Allers who has 24 Goals on the year...Can he put them on his back?
Quote from: rudy on November 10, 2018, 03:56:21 PM
Falconer.. definitely tough to not have Cooper for the weekend. One good thing I saw was freshman Luke K played. He had started some games before getting injured. David Alejos also played some. I hope to see more of Britt in game tomorrow...he brings a lot of energy and toughness and has a nose for the net. It will be a tight game against either team tomorrow but Messiah still has enough firepower to move on. West is due for a goal so you can count on him getting one..
Honestly, except for Vegter at Calvin, who should be defensive POY, Luke G is the best CB I've seen all season, even though it's not his natural position. Against Lyco, he took Tueno out of the game, and against everyone else he dominated his side of the field. And, of course, he's very dangerous going forward. I do think if he'd played all season at CB he would have been all-conference there. I imagine with some defenders coming in next year, Luke will move up at least a bit, but he's the best all-around Falcon defender, IMO, since JD Binger. Attackers can't beat him, but he can beat them.
Stevens-Gordon thoughts:
- Stevens was the better side throughout the game, and had some nice interplay. That being said, Gordon was scrappy and hard-working and had a few chances of its own, although most of them came in transition or scrums in the box. Stevens was the better side in the first half despite playing against the wind, as they kept the ball on the ground. Likewise, Gordon looked dangerous in the second going against the wind as well, although I think Stevens was more threatening as far as having good chances.
- The Gordon goalkeeper is very good. He made a couple of outstanding one-handed saves where it seemed like the ball was going in. I also liked Gordon's #23, but Stevens' #10 was the best player on the pitch IMHO.
- Gordon hit the crossbar with a rocket of a free kick in the 109th minute. It was struck super hard and hit the bar straight on, and if it was an inch or two lower I think it's off the underside of the bar and in.
- Both goalkeepers did well in the shoot out. The Stevens penalties were better than the Gordon penalties, though, so I cannot blame of the Gordon goalkeeper for not saving them. Both goalkeepers were going way off their line but no one was calling it as seems to be the case often these days.
- The ref was definitely letting them play but did well to keep a hold of the game despite it being a chippy affair.
- All told, an entertaining game despite it being scoreless.
Nice recap Bloots...Was Tufts players watching the match? How u feel Stevens will match up at Tufts tomorrow....
Luther and Knox knotted 0-0 at end of regulation. Luther definitely better in possession, but Knox with a couple close chances as time was winding down.
Unbelievable that UR is not charging to stream their game and then SLU's game...Maybe they thought that would not look good being an NCAA game and all or maybe there is some sort of rule about that by the NCAA but I highly doubt it.
Quote from: gustiefan04 on November 10, 2018, 05:56:56 PM
Luther and Knox knotted 0-0 at end of regulation. Luther definitely better in possession, but Knox with a couple close chances as time was winding down.
Wow I thought Luther would win that game 2-0...I think this is Knox's first appearance ever....
Meanwhile, Calvin being held scoreless by UWP
The situation at Messiah sounds dire....but with the best striker in Falcons history and arguably the best defender ever playing I'm going to give them a puncher's chance lol.
Will be interesting to see how Colby reacts when MSU scores (which seems inevitable).
Colby just blew a chance to grab a 2-0 lead as Pereira muffed it with his left foot....MSU giving Colby way to much space...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 06:11:27 PM
Colby just blew a chance to grab a 2-0 lead as Pereira muffed it with his left foot....MSU giving Colby way to much space...
Yeah, I don't know how he didn't finish that....Nice setup by the quick wing #2...
Luther with the win in overtime. I do not know anything about Dominican but if Gustavus wins that will be an interesting and evenly matched game. St. Thomas/UW-Superior/Luther/Gustavus are equal in strength. I do not see any of these teams challenging Chicago or Trinity in an Elite 8 game but will make a good Sweet 16 round.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
Unbelievable that UR is not charging to stream their game and then SLU's game...Maybe they thought that would not look good being an NCAA game and all or maybe there is some sort of rule about that by the NCAA but I highly doubt it.
All NCAA tournament games for DIII sports are required to be streamed for free. I'm not sure if the NCAA subsidizes the streams or just simply require free streams, but tournament games cannot be behind paywalls unless there are special circumstances (e.g. Mount Union Football having a TV package).
Quote from: stlawus on November 10, 2018, 06:20:00 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
Unbelievable that UR is not charging to stream their game and then SLU's game...Maybe they thought that would not look good being an NCAA game and all or maybe there is some sort of rule about that by the NCAA but I highly doubt it.
All NCAA tournament games for DIII sports are required to be streamed for free. I'm not sure if the NCAA subsidizes the streams or just simply require free streams, but tournament games cannot be behind paywalls unless there are special circumstances (e.g. Mount Union Football having a TV package).
That's not quite right. You get free broadcast rights from the NCAA if you don't charge for your NCAA streams. Otherwise it's quite a bit of money if you have commercials or PPV so basically no school would ever make back the money. I think staff for broadcasts can be included as part of your hosting package so the school won't be out much for doing a broadcast.
Colby GK Dan Carlson goin nuts at his back 4...The Frosh Pugh almost just cost them right there....Clouse is having a nightmare game...He looks gassed, giving the ball away at will and playing out of position a bit tonight....He MUST clean this up.
Quote from: njf1003 on November 10, 2018, 06:25:39 PM
Quote from: stlawus on November 10, 2018, 06:20:00 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 05:58:47 PM
Unbelievable that UR is not charging to stream their game and then SLU's game...Maybe they thought that would not look good being an NCAA game and all or maybe there is some sort of rule about that by the NCAA but I highly doubt it.
All NCAA tournament games for DIII sports are required to be streamed for free. I'm not sure if the NCAA subsidizes the streams or just simply require free streams, but tournament games cannot be behind paywalls unless there are special circumstances (e.g. Mount Union Football having a TV package).
That's not quite right. You get free broadcast rights from the NCAA if you don't charge for your NCAA streams. Otherwise it's quite a bit of money if you have commercials or PPV so basically no school would ever make back the money. I think staff for broadcasts can be included as part of your hosting package so the school won't be out much for doing a broadcast.
Didn't know that, I thought there was just a blanket requirement. Either way all the teams that charge/used to charge broadcasts were made free in the playoffs, like Hobart. They've since removed the pay wall but when they charged broadcasts they were made free for the playoffs.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2018, 06:04:28 PM
The situation at Messiah sounds dire....but with the best striker in Falcons history and arguably the best defender ever playing I'm going to give them a puncher's chance lol.
:o
Thought you'd chime in on this, Paul. I know you do agree with my view that West is the top D3 gun this year, once you saw him when he was red hot in that streak. (What he's been doing lately is looking to pass out of double and triple teaming--which is how J Groothoff got such a great look today.) If you saw Luke Groothoff play a few games at CB, however, I think you might also agree with my view of his prowess there. I implied that he's better than AA Carter Robbins (an older brother of Cooper and someone I know you appreciated), because I believe that. He's two rungs above Robbins in athleticism, smoother with the ball at his feet, and already looking like a 3-year veteran with his decision making. And simply no comparison with Robbins when he goes forward. Without question, West and L Groothoff are the two most talented Falcons on this team. (Blooter and Mr Right saw Groothoff play in HS, and I sense that neither of them is inclined to dispute this assessment.)
But, as you know, if you take four starters off of any team, they probably aren't as good. Hopkins is really, really good, top to bottom--terrific defensively, starting with the keeper and Cole Rosenberger, and capable of matching Messiah with possession on a good day. This is not a good time for the Falcons to be missing two starting defenders. I'm not as worried about the offense, despite Alejos being hobbled again (he did play today, though he didn't start) and not being able to bring Luke out the back to join the attack. I'm concerned that Cooper's steady presence and King's athleticism will be sorely missed in the back. Come tournament time, if you're going to have men go missing, you'd rather have it be somewhere else than CB and RB.
I don't question how good those players are....I was responding more to your angst about being disadvantaged...You likely will still be better at every single position on the field...sure, you could get upset, but if there was no chance of being upset then why even play?
Also wonder how Groothoff got out of Maine....Colby could really use him right about now...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 05:53:48 PM
Nice recap Bloots...Was Tufts players watching the match? How u feel Stevens will match up at Tufts tomorrow....
They were there at least most of regulation if not the OTs.
I think Stevens will give them a game. They play a fluid 4-3-3 with the front 3 making diagonal runs. Aversano (#10) is their best player. He is quick, skillful, and apparently has 10 goals and 9 assists on the year. CF #9 is solid and holds the ball up well. They do not have a ton of size but are scrappy and physical.
As for how they match up I think Tufts has a size advantage which could be key on set pieces and I think Tasker and Lane could have some joy out wide but I think Tufts' back 4 will have its hands full with Stevens' front 3. That may be going out on a limb considering they did not score today but I think Najjar might get dragged around a bit by the front 3 using diagonal runs and combinations. He will have to be 100% on and I think Weatherbie will be going up against Aversano so he will have his hands full, but he has gone up against the best player of many opponents this year and come out on top.
Stevens had a few nice plays where they had great buildup but then were let down by the final ball. Then again Tufts has had a bit of trouble scoring lately. I don't think this will be a free-flowing game.
All told -- particularly considering Stevens went the full 110 minutes and Tufts was rested -- I think Tufts should win this in regulation, but I do not think it will be a stroll by any means.
Colby hanging around just fine right now....15 minutes left...MSU will be pushing crazy numbers forward which should give Colby some chances to counter...Also, Seabrook is using the Wiercinski playbook of taking their sweet ol time on free kicks/throws and goal kicks...I just think #10 Clouse is killing them in the middle of the field..He is so GASSED right now...Colby just does not have the depth but they are doing fine against NJAC's top team...
Quote from: Falconer on November 10, 2018, 06:31:37 PM
Without question, West and L Groothoff are the two most talented Falcons on this team. (Blooter and Mr Right saw Groothoff play in HS, and I sense that neither of them is inclined to dispute this assessment.)
I'd agree with that, although given he's got three years on Groothoff and has scored 87 goals this year I'd have West at #1 (although Groothoff could be just as good in a few years). Anyway, Groothoff is a stud although back then I saw him playing at CM. That being said, I think his soccer IQ and athleticism would see him succeed just about anywhere on the field, maybe even in goal, so I am not surprised that he has done so well at CB this year (and chipped in with a few goals, too).
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2018, 06:38:16 PM
I don't question how good those players are....I was responding more to your angst about being disadvantaged...You likely will still be better at every single position on the field...sure, you could get upset, but if there was no chance of being upset then why even play?
Also wonder how Groothoff got out of Maine....Colby could really use him right about now...
I don't agree that the Falcons will still be better at every position. And, I'd say that even if no one were hurt. JHU has some players who would start in Grantham, especially Rosenberger. He's first team all-Centennial for a good reason. Of the defenders I've seen this year, I put him maybe third, after Vegter and Groothoff--but Groothoff sometimes plays in the MF. Watch him tomorrow and see what you think. He'll almost certainly be marking West. At Keeper, Messiah and Hopkins might be dead even, or perhaps Hopkins has a slight advantage. The Falcons would also find somewhere to put Martinez and Younker. That's at least three Blue Jays whom I would start for Messiah.
Montclair equalizes with less than 10 minutes left. Colby didn't clear the ball but it was a nice finish, left-footed and into the far corner. Will be curious to see if Colby just plays for pens or if they try to go for the W.
MSU gets the game tying goal with 5 minutes left...Nig mistake by Colby's Frosh #14 who tried to get in front of the ball played in and misjudged it. Then the RB Wyett tried to clear it and he it off an MSU player and it went right to the kid who ripped it left footed into the net...Carlson had no chance...Colby was getting stretched and agian because Clouse is slow damn slow it is giving MSU 2v1 in the middle of the field...1-1 4 minutes left.
Whooey...Montclair kid gets off a shot, Carlson can't hold it and he has to take out his own man to smother the rebound with MSU players lurking.
And a mixup in Montclair's end almost gives Colby a winner, but MSU gets it clear...then a nice cross in from the right with about 30 seconds left sees Colby get a free header but the kid puts it right at the 'keeper. I guess we have our answer, Colby is going for it.
1-1 Colby at MSU heading to OT.....Colby's 2 wingers #11 Rosenberg and #2 Kyle Douglas have played very well tonight. Both guys are really busting their ass up and down the field as they have to defend and attack. I have never seen Douglas work this hard as that is not his MO but he is tonight. He has burned MSU defensively a couple times tonight. MSU looks shaky on defense as I do not know how far they can go because they do not work all game especially defending. They have talent but you gotta want it as well. Their GK seems solid though. If I were Colby I would hang on for PK's as that is what got you here in the first place but MSU gives enough space so Colby can get a good look or two.
WCONN gets an unbelievable goal with 30 seconds left to tie up the match at F&M. 1-1 heading to OT...WCONN has some kind of magic this year as they beat Keene ST by getting a game tying goal very late and then winning it in OT.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 07:02:37 PM
WCONN gets an unbelievable goal with 30 seconds left to tie up the match at F&M.
:o
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2018, 06:38:16 PM
Also wonder how Groothoff got out of Maine....Colby could really use him right about now...
That's simple. First, he was never going to Colby or any other NESCAC. Had he stayed in New England (let alone Maine), he would have played D1, probably at New Hampshire or Brown. Second, his brother (so I hear from a friend who knows him) is having a wonderful time at Messiah, and not just on the soccer field. That counts a whole lot. Family happiness might even be the single biggest reason for the Falcon dynasty: one very talented brother has a great experience, and the others follow him. As in Robbins (3 so far), Thompson (4, two of whom were AAs), Cole (2 started today), Bender (2, and there is rumored to be one more possible Falcon in the pipeline who is already a D1 level player), Tassy (2 sons of a high level D1 player and coach who excelled at Messiah decades ago), Suessmuth (1 of them the all-time leading Falcon scorer), Woodworth (2, the first of whom led the Falcons to their first two titles) and just so many more I can't count them.
Incidentally, the Groothoff boys learned their soccer in California, not Maine. Not sure exactly how old they were when their family moved to Maine.
Jeez WCONN is all over F&M...Allers almost won it for WCONN but a fantastic save by F&M GK...1-1 heading to 2OT
Colby scored a beautiful goal that was apparently offside...Takes guts for the AR to call that...
Jesus....Colby #17 Fletcher has a SITTER...and he muffed it....should have been game over...WIDE OPEN...gotta score there...
Looks like a West Conn own goal sends F&M through.
Quote from: Falconer on November 10, 2018, 07:10:10 PM
Incidentally, the Groothoff boys learned their soccer in California, not Maine. Not sure exactly how old they were when their family moved to Maine.
Senior and sophomore. They have a sister, too, who is still in high school. I believe she scored a hat-trick in the state final last year (her team won 9-0, the most lopsided state final in Maine history).
https://www.pressherald.com/2015/09/14/groothoff-brothers-join-clippers-ship/
F&M just shocks WCONN 2-1 in 2OT off a set piece. Kid hit it into the mixer and a WCONN defender headed it backwards into his own net. It was a great finish but wrong net...Tough way to end your season as WCONN was stunned....That was a serious performance by those WCONN Seniors this season and in that game as they proved they were for real. I expect WCONN to drop off in 2019 because they graduate about 3-4 of their best players. Nice season for WCONN.
Colby and MSU heading for PK's....Can Colby win 3 in a row or does their luck run out?
Colby's last two kickers and Montclair's last all missed...MSU wins the shootout, but why was the celebration so delayed? I am guessing it has something to do with the ref picking up the ball after the last kick, he looked like he was asking his assistant if the GK stayed on his line.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 07:29:54 PM
Colby and MSU heading for PK's....Can Colby win 3 in a row or does their luck run out?
The third time was not the charm, but a valiant battle by the Mules.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 07:42:25 PM
Colby's last two kickers and Montclair's last all missed...MSU wins the shootout, but why was the celebration so delayed? I am guessing it has something to do with the ref picking up the ball after the last kick, he looked like he was asking his assistant if the GK stayed on his line.
I thought there was confusion about whether there was another round....
Phenomenal effort by Colby....They really needed to convert on that great chance to go up 2-0, but in truth they were under siege for much of the game....curious to see the shot totals.
I must have lost count as I thought it was tied in PK's but one hell of an effort by Nescac's #8 seed Colby...They had a couple chances to win that game and just did not finish...The kid who had a sitter in 2OT absolutely killed them.....Great season though....Colby Frosh Fabricant who is from Jersey hits a clean header right at GK and then absolutely embarrasses himself by skying a PK 30 yards over the goal...Berolzheimer's PK was telegraphed as well...MSU was giving Colby so much space in the middle of the field that they are not used to getting in Nescac which helped them get some nice counters but also took them out of their compact 6 defending and Clouse killed them in midfield defending IMO. CB Pugh was just ok tonight but it was his mistake that MSU pounced on and scored in the 85th minute....Still a great effort by Colby tonight...That is one hell of a long bus ride home to think about that loss but they should be proud as their season lasted maybe 2 weeks longer than it usually does. I will say they graduate a ton so it might be hard to replicate this but at least they know and have the confidence to win.
I do not think Colby was under seige for much of the game...MSU has more talent but Colby had about 5-6 good looks that they never would see in a Nescac game...Shots were 9-7 SOG for MSU which is the more important stat...29-17 Overall
Quote from: stlawus on November 10, 2018, 07:50:01 PM
Looks like it doesn't matter that Rochester made the broadcast free since they are incapable of getting it to work in the first place. Embarrassing.
I have it going.....
Peters with a nice run down the left to get things started and almost results in a chance. Williams coming out positive.
Does the ref have a broken nose? He is bundled up like a fan on the bleachers and has a couple strips of tape on his nose...He looks a bit off...
UR stream is well done with sound...
I cannot stand this Cortland crap without sound....
I am kind of curious to see NYU tonight as I have not seen them play all year.
It has sound but you gotta turn it wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy up to hear anything.
As an aside, and not on topic at all but still soccer-related, everyone should watch this.
https://twitter.com/TomMunns1/status/1060592423586402305
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 07:59:48 PM
As an aside, and not on topic at all but still soccer-related, everyone should watch this.
https://twitter.com/TomMunns1/status/1060592423586402305
Damn 271,000 retweets...such a brit move
Brockport just hit a BOMB from about 35 yards out...1-0 over SLU 15 minutes left in first half...Possible goal of his life...SLU GK WAS out of position or not ready for it....
Williams strikes first off, finishing off a pinball with a downward header.
Penn State Behrend off to a quick 1-0 lead over Lycoming 4'
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 10, 2018, 08:16:32 PM
Penn State Behrend off to a quick 1-0 lead over Lycoming 4'
Really?? I thought Lycoming's physicality would see them thru this pod....
If these are the announcers you pay $7.95 a game for UR matches jesus.....the color guy is SOOO BAD....He is making no sense and rambling on and on......A piece of paper blew onto the field and the kid said 3 times yelling...."There is paper on the field" "There is paper on the field"...."How can the ref let them play with paper on the field?"....jesus
Brockport 1-0 SLU at the Half.....Why do I feel like SLU is always playing from behind in the NCAA's like the past 5 years. Always give up this random goal and then they are chasing the game...Well not in 2014 but I feel like SLU is very unlucky in NCAA's for some reason.
When they host on Sandy they play strong in the first 2 rounds, when they go on the road they struggle, at least within the last 4 or 5 years.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
If these are the announcers you pay $7.95 a game for UR matches jesus.....the color guy is SOOO BAD....He is making no sense and rambling on and on......A piece of paper blew onto the field and the kid said 3 times yelling...."There is paper on the field" "There is paper on the field"...."How can the ref let them play with paper on the field?"....jesus
"The referee stopped the game because of the paper, oh wait, it was just a throw in".
Its a piece of paper, not a toddler.
SLU I playing well I think.
We have possession in our DNA, but I would like to see a bit less in the defense, these guys are pressing hard up top hoping to pick off the defender.
If SLU keeps Brockport to one goal then I think we have a chance in this game still.
LOL....Ok maybe I was a bit off about Etown....They knot the score up before the Half as it is 1-1 Williams v Etown...Etown scores off a corner then a ping pong ball around the 6 and a failed clearance by Williams and Etown finishes it...That is bad defending by Williams. First of all Fabricant should have headed it out but missed timed his jump and then another defender had an easy chance to clear it but failed....Now I have to watch 2nd Half for sure as this game will come down to who wants it more...Why is this game so far behind as it was supposed to start at 730?
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 10, 2018, 08:29:45 PM
SLU I playing well I think.
We have possession in our DNA, but I would like to see a bit less in the defense, these guys are pressing hard up top hoping to pick off the defender.
If SLU keeps Brockport to one goal then I think we have a chance in this game still.
Of course...I just mean I always feel like SLU gets really unlucky in NCAA's...Was it 2015 or 2016 they went on the road and were chasing after falling behind in a game they should have won IIRC...
In 2015 they gave up a bad goal against Sage at home in the first round but won 2-1. They lost to W&L in 2016 where they chased the game for most of the match.
That goal was a season in the making. Smith and the back line played with fire with that toy around back pass all year and were close to getting burned multiple times. Horrific time to finally concede from it.
SLU just makes a grave mistake in the back to allow Brockport to grab a 2-0 lead...I just do not understand hitting a careless backpass and then the GK hits a bad ball back which Brockport picks off and then the GK comes charging out of his net when maybe his defender could have gotten there....You cannot play these dinky balls around the back unless you are SURE...Just clear it out and reset....Not in SLU's DNA but it kills them in these type of games...
I've had a terrible feeling this would happen. They have been so close to conceding from that all year. So many times all they needed to do was take a regular goal kick or a simple clearance.
Well you have 30 minutes left...plenty of time..
Right back in it with that penalty. Interesting choice to have Callahan take it, but it worked. Going to be a fun 30 minutes.
See SLU gets a PK Goal and are right back in it...2-1 Brockport...and a fight breaks out after the PK...
Etown takes a 2-1 lead over Williams...AGAIN piss poor defending as the kid beat 3 guys and then slotted it low and Williams GK Schein dove for the ball a second to late as it snuck under him...Not good...Schein has to make that save BUT Williams defending just sucked right there. 2-1 Etown about 30 minutes left
This Brockport GK is pretty good I will give them that...SLU starting to run out of time with about 13 minutes left they need an equalizer...They cannot pass back now just gotta push the issue and only go forward. Cannot waste time by swinging it in the back IMO.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 09:20:00 PM
This Brockport GK is pretty good I will give them that...SLU starting to run out of time with about 13 minutes left they need an equalizer...They cannot pass back now just gotta push the issue and only go forward. Cannot waste time by swinging it in the back IMO.
This is only his 3rd game starting this season I believe. I'm not sure why their usual starter is not in...
Well when you don't play with a sense of urgency down a goal late in the game not much else you can expect. One awful unforced give away made the difference. Very disappointing end to the seniors' season. Used to be able to expect at least a 2nd round or sweet 16 finish to the season for this program.
This was a high quality NCAA game between conference champions.
Unfortunately someone had to lose, especially since it was the team in Ajax colors.
The true shame is that the first round game was between SUNYAC and LL champs.
I wish Brockport all the best and hope they can continue to carry the flag for the region.
In the end, either your team wins it all, or you will be experiencing great heartbreak in the end.
Now I can enjoy some good soccer without going crazy in the process.
Yea disappointing for sure for SLU but Williams not much better,,,,Etown defeats Williams 2-1 to advance....Williams made to many errors and just did not look themselves all game...Williams has now not won an NCAA game in 5 years....Just ridiculous for a program that had such history and deep runs in the NCAA's. Not a good way to go out....very disappointing....
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 10, 2018, 09:47:18 PM
Yea disappointing for sure for SLU but Williams not much better,,,,Etown defeats Williams 2-1 to advance....Williams made to many errors and just did not look themselves all game...Williams has now not won an NCAA game in 5 years....Just ridiculous for a program that had such history and deep runs in the NCAA's. Not a good way to go out....very disappointing....
Cheer up my friend, the fact that you can be disappointed shows the high quality of the program.
I think the taste of the dance is great for the program.
The Coach knows all too well what it takes to go all the way and it is good that he has now done so as the top man at his Alma Mater.
It is tough to rebuild something that was already great... as we are seeing with the Saints as well.
Something tells me that the 2nd championship is the hardest one to get :{
Pool C teams have been a disaster so far...
Maybe not too bad, but the teams that should have won faltered.
Looks like a good night for EZK.
NYU equalizes with two minutes left...wowzah...NYU kid hits a long one and not sure if it took a deflection but you can tell the NYU fans were surprised by that. 1-1.
Watching it again the Haverford defense just kept backing off as NYU came forward and it nicked off the back of the kid's -- who was running back -- heel and looped over the GK. Decent strike but the deflection helped.
Can't help but laugh to see an AR wearing leggins and a hat in NYU-Hav. Toughen up, guy
Got to hand it to Brockport for having a good scouting report on SLU. They knew going in that if pressured SLU backs tend to give the ball away. This game was no different. Unfortunately for SLU they weren't able to get a point out of the 4 Musketeers. Great group of senior offensive players hung up their cleats tonight.
Just got back from seeing Trinity(TX) take out the trash, I mean Chapman, 3-0 in a game that wasn't that close. Chapman pulling players down constantly and playing very physically led to 2 PKs for Trinity (one brilliantly saved by the Chapman keeper). Chapman coach got two yellows and a red in quick succession with about 18' to go.
Trinity will need a better effort tomorrow against a solid Mary Hardin-Baylor squad that is up 2-0 late on "top regionally ranked" Southwestern.
NYU with its tails up. Been the more dangerous side in the first OT.
Wooooof...about 10 seconds left in the first OT and a Haverford kid plays a give-and-go which has him 1v1 but his touch is too heavy and the keeper collects at the second attempt.
Hope that Boxcast doesn't just shut off at its "end time" like it did last year.
>:(
Blooter. That is unreal. I thought it was my service provider
Haverford had two chances to get a stranglehold in PKs
If I read my Live Stats correctly, it looks like NYU beat Haverford 5-4 in the 7th round of PKs. Is that what happened?
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 10, 2018, 11:06:44 PM
Blooter. That is unreal. I thought it was my service provider
I'm no software developer, but I find it ridiculous and have no idea how they haven't found a solution to that. Of course you could tell the school to set it for way later, but I still feel like that's something that should be addressed in terms of functionality, not by clients having to be vigilant about time.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 10, 2018, 11:13:37 PM
If I read my Live Stats correctly, it looks like NYU beat Haverford 5-4 in the 7th round of PKs. Is that what happened?
Affirmative.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 11:14:35 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 10, 2018, 11:13:37 PM
If I read my Live Stats correctly, it looks like NYU beat Haverford 5-4 in the 7th round of PKs. Is that what happened?
Affirmative.
Thank you for the confirmation, Blooter!
Upon looking up this "bug," Boxcast does give the option to not include an end time when creating an event (which simply necessitates the user manually stop the broadcast). In that case, while noting that the game started late (as a result of the first match going to a shootout), I reverse my initial judgment: Montclair Athletics, ya dun goofed.
https://boxcast.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202109213-How-to-Schedule-Your-First-Broadcast
I would be less frustrated if all the shots had missed, but since they were making them left and right I'd like to have seen it. Oh well. At least tomorrow's game won't be delayed by the match previous going to PKs, since there is no preceding match.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 10:57:40 PM
Hope that Boxcast doesn't just shut off at its "end time" like it did last year.
The feed cut out last year too? That's just unforgivable.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 10, 2018, 11:24:44 PM
The feed cut out last year too? That's just unforgivable.
Not MSU, Boxcast in general, apologies for the ambiguity. Last year's issue was Brandeis' Boxcast feed, so while MSU can't be blamed for that, Boxcast resulted in similar frustration for viewers.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 10, 2018, 11:24:44 PM
The feed cut out last year too? That's just unforgivable.
Not MSU, Boxcast in general, apologies for the ambiguity. Last year's issue was Brandeis' Boxcast feed, so while MSU can't be blamed for that, Boxcast resulted in similar frustration for viewers.
It's still pretty lame. I'd imagine (even though I really have no idea, as I don't do this sort of thing) that there is some sort of procedures manual that describes what a host institution for an NCAA tournament has to do and how to do it. Since this has happened before, someone should have edited it to say that hosts should enable the manual termination option to avoid inadvertently cutting off the stream prematurely. What are all of those people doing in that big office building in Indianapolis?
There was a game last night, and one which I didn't know the result until this morning, where the stream had very clear audio coming from the fan section of a particular team the whole time. The actual team doesn't matter (even though it's one of my very favorite colleges in the entire United States), as a microphone could be placed in the fan section of virtually any team, and we would have heard the same.
I was amazed at just how insane and over the top the parents sounded. In some ways amusing and other some ways insufferable.
Made me think about two things....
1) I would be cringing with embarrassment and shame if I listened to a tape of myself in the stands "back in the day"
2) I'm still hanging around and posting because I miss those days so much, and wowza, all of it including all the roller coaster of emotions was an unforgettable blast that leaves you wanting MORE
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
There was a game last night, and one which I didn't know the result until this morning, where the stream had very clear audio coming from the fan section of a particular team the whole time. The actual team doesn't matter (even though it's one of my very favorite colleges in the entire United States), as a microphone could be placed in the fan section of virtually any team, and we would have heard the same.
I was amazed at just how insane and over the top the parents sounded. In some ways amusing and other some ways insufferable.
Made me think about two things....
1) I would be cringing with embarrassment and shame if I listened to a tape of myself in the stands "back in the day"
2) I'm still hanging around and posting because I miss those days so much, and wowza, all of it including all the roller coaster of emotions was an unforgettable blast that leaves you wanting MORE
For your sake Paul I hope Kenyon makes final 4 ...play into December! How many years until grandchildren start playing? 😁
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2018, 11:07:29 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
There was a game last night, and one which I didn't know the result until this morning, where the stream had very clear audio coming from the fan section of a particular team the whole time. The actual team doesn't matter (even though it's one of my very favorite colleges in the entire United States), as a microphone could be placed in the fan section of virtually any team, and we would have heard the same.
I was amazed at just how insane and over the top the parents sounded. In some ways amusing and other some ways insufferable.
Made me think about two things....
1) I would be cringing with embarrassment and shame if I listened to a tape of myself in the stands "back in the day"
2) I'm still hanging around and posting because I miss those days so much, and wowza, all of it including all the roller coaster of emotions was an unforgettable blast that leaves you wanting MORE
For your sake Paul I hope Kenyon makes final 4 ...play into December! How many years until grandchildren start playing? 😁
Well, I don't have any yet.....so at least two years. But I do already have their college search trips all planned out.
Told Buck I'd be at the Tufts-Stevens game -- and I will -- but may be late if this Manchester Derby keeps up at this pace. 1-0 City 10 minutes in and it is end-to-end, great theater.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2018, 11:07:29 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
There was a game last night, and one which I didn't know the result until this morning, where the stream had very clear audio coming from the fan section of a particular team the whole time. The actual team doesn't matter (even though it's one of my very favorite colleges in the entire United States), as a microphone could be placed in the fan section of virtually any team, and we would have heard the same.
I was amazed at just how insane and over the top the parents sounded. In some ways amusing and other some ways insufferable.
Made me think about two things....
1) I would be cringing with embarrassment and shame if I listened to a tape of myself in the stands "back in the day"
2) I'm still hanging around and posting because I miss those days so much, and wowza, all of it including all the roller coaster of emotions was an unforgettable blast that leaves you wanting MORE
For your sake Paul I hope Kenyon makes final 4 ...play into December! How many years until grandchildren start playing? 😁
Well, I don't have any yet.....so at least two years. But I do already have their college search trips all planned out.
Ha...I'm sure you have a few northeast schools on the list.
Maybe a certain Ohio school. +k
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2018, 06:04:28 PM
The situation at Messiah sounds dire....but with the best striker in Falcons history and arguably the best defender ever playing I'm going to give them a puncher's chance lol.
Well, history is against the Falcons advancing today. In their entire illustrious history, they have never won a 2nd round NCAA match when playing a team that advanced from the first round via a penalty kick shootout. Not sure about dire, but, no, it isn't looking good for the Falcons.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 12:43:52 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 10, 2018, 06:04:28 PM
The situation at Messiah sounds dire....but with the best striker in Falcons history and arguably the best defender ever playing I'm going to give them a puncher's chance lol.
Well, history is against the Falcons advancing today. In their entire illustrious history, they have never won a 2nd round NCAA match when playing a team that advanced from the first round via a penalty kick shootout. Not sure about dire, but, no, it isn't looking good for the Falcons.
LOL. So, not even a puncher's chance???
And this has happened how many times before? Once? Zero?
I think Hopkins gives them a game today....Surprised Falcon fans are so confident right now...Actually this game could be harder for Messiah then the Sweet 16 IMO.
Tufts almost gets a quick goal on Stevens with a nice run by Tasker but a rushed shot by Braun hits it weakly to the GK. He had an extra second to receive the ball and rip it.
St.Joe's on the back foot early as Amherst is putting them under serious pressure and get a quick early goal to take a 1-0 lead on a nice 1v1 play for Giammattei who gets a left footed shot off and St.Joe's GK could not get to it and it was easily tapped in. St.Joe's players were saying the ball was out and I could not tell by the stream. The grass field is really an advantage for Amherst and St.Joe's does have a good scout because they are forcing Giammattei to use his left. However, Giammattei is extremely active to begin this game. St.Joe's MUST calm down and settle the nerves and realize they have 80 minutes to find a goal.
Jesus....Amherst is absolutely dominating St.Joe's in the first 15 minutes as they take a 2-0 lead off a header from Ajayi off a corner kick.
Ramapo takes a 1-0 lead on Conn off a horrible defensive miscue. Long free kick from behind midfield was allowed to bounce by Conn defenders and it bounced right to Ramapo's big striker who headed it over Marcucci. Conn defenders HAVE TO CLEAR that ball out before it bounces..Unacceptable...Conn has already had a few solid chances and this game should be the most competitive today for Nescac teams.
That gives Fala 27 this year. That's a crazy number.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
I think Hopkins gives them a game today....Surprised Falcon fans are so confident right now...Actually this game could be harder for Messiah then the Sweet 16 IMO.
Which Falcon fans are so confident?
Ramapo at Conn game very entertaining and physical match..Ramapo has a solid GK but Conn has had some good looks. The best being a PK by Manoogian but he fluffed it. Horrible PK as he telegraphed it and did not hit it very hard as Ramapo GK easily saved it. Ramapo a team that fouls hard with a couple on the edge of dirty but I think Conn should be able to sneak a goal in the 2nd Half to even this match up.
Meanwhile, Amherst scored a 3rd Goal to take a 3-0 lead over St.Joe's but St.Joe's finally settled down and got one back before the Half on a ridiculous defensive mistake by Amherst. St.Joe's GK has the ball in his hands and puts it down to his defenders feet who then proceeds to hit a 50 yard ball on the nose to his striker who runs onto it and finishes a breakaway 1v1 on Amherst GK White...Amherst defense was asleep as you cannot allow a goal from what basically was a goalkick. If St.Joe's can sneak another early in the 2nd Half they could get right back in the game OR Amherst gets one more and its curtains for St.Joe's.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
I think Hopkins gives them a game today....Surprised Falcon fans are so confident right now...Actually this game could be harder for Messiah then the Sweet 16 IMO.
Which Falcon fans are so confident?
There was a post that was deleted by a Falcon fan that I was responding to. Anyhow, Hopkins came out flying but have settled down a bit and Messiah got the lead from a Nick West Goal.
Amherst dirty play bites them in the ass as St.Joe's gets a 2nd Goal early in the 2nd Half off a set piece right outside the box on a beauty of a hit that went under Amherst GK White's arms. STUPID DIRTY FOUL by Amherst CB Felix Wu on a St.Joe's player off the ball caused the free kick goal. I mean the foul was not even involved in the play it was off the ball and just plain dirty stuff..#Cheap shot....However, St.Joe's makes them pay and gets right back into the game with an early goal.
St. Thomas up 4-0 within 20 minutes over UW-Superior. They might have solved their goal scoring woes.
Quote from: D3Grad on November 11, 2018, 02:28:44 PM
St. Thomas up 4-0 within 20 minutes over UW-Superior. They might have solved their goal scoring woes.
[/quote
Damn that is a statement heading into the Sweet 16.
Amherst gets ANOTHER goal off a set piece..St.Joe's just having all kinds of problems defending Amherst set pieces. Nice ball in and a real nice finish by CB Felix Wu off his head but he got by his defender who was ball watching...4-2 Amherst with about 25 minutes left and that will probably do it unless St.Joe's can get one back in the next 10 minutes.
Conn College GK AJ Marcucci goes down after getting kicked by Ramapo star striker I think in the head but not sure. He has to be taken out so maybe a concussion or something but now Conn is down 1-0 with 15 minutes left and they have a backup GK in there that has not played a minute all year....Pressure? Nah....Interestingly, during the huddle when Marcucci was being looked at Manoogian and Murphy were kind of talking in a heated fashion almost like Manoogian wants Murphy to change systems to find a goal and push numbers but Conn looks to be staying in their system for now. I think they gotta go now because Ramapo is wasting time on every dead ball...
Tufts scores off a long throw into the box that bounced once and it looked like Tasker ripped it off the bounce just under the bar. 1-0 Tufts with about 6 minutes left. If this holds we will have a Amherst at Tufts rematch next weekend.
Conn's GK Marcucci back in the game. That is a good sign BUT Conn is in a world of hurt as they are running out of time here..1-0 Ramapo with about 12 minutes left.
In 1 minute Conn has hit the post, had an open goal without a GK and a defender cleared one off the line BUT the heat has been turned up by Conn ever since Murphy changed and sending everyone but a couple guys forward...Had he done this with 20 minutes left Conn might have gotten one. 1-0 Ramapo about 6 left
Gritty win for the Lords....
Ramapo with a nice effort today sneaks past Conn 1-0 in New London. As the final whistle blew some Conn players fell to the ground but there was that little melee at midfield after the final whistle between Ramapo players and Conn players...Tough game for Conn they had about FIVE point blank opportunities to score and just could not finish. Also, the goal they let up in the first 10 minutes was soft as hell. I have not seen them let up a soft goal really all year but that was weak sauce. Still a great year for Conn in what had to be one of the best in Conn's history. They lose A TON of Seniors so this will be very hard to match in 2019 but man I feel for Manoogian who missed that PK early in the 1st Half. He is a gamer but that PK was weak sauce....What a career by Manoogian though...Absolute gamer....Now Ramapo will get the winner of MSU and NYU tonight....I wonder if they would want a rematch with MSU after they got hammered 5-0 in the NJAC Final. After seeing both teams the past 2 days I think MSU has a little more talent than Ramapo but nit by much and certainly not 5-0 worth. I also would not count out NYU maybe getting a result tonight...
Calvin has an unfair advantage as they can scout the John Carroll match tonight because they will play the winner. That really is not right at all and I doubt those teams would have scouted Calvin yesterday before even playing their first games last night. Calvin has a tough draw next weekend. IMO Messiah might have the easiest path as they will face Cortland/Etown winner and then either F&M/Rochester/Brockport/Eastern in the Elite 8. All decent teams but F&M did not impress me last night against WCONN who should have beaten them. I know Cortland drew Messiah earlier in the year but they are not playing the same as they were earlier this year. IDK maybe I am wrong but to me that is the easiest Sweet 16 / Elite 8 pod right now because Chicago still has to possibly get by Trinity and Tufts/Amherst will battle in another with Calvin/Kenyon/Case/John Carroll in the last.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 03:30:19 PM
Calvin has an unfair advantage as they can scout the John Carroll match tonight because they will play the winner. That really is not right at all and I doubt those teams would have scouted Calvin yesterday before even playing their first games last night. Calvin has a tough draw next weekend. IMO Messiah might have the easiest path as they will face Cortland/Etown winner and then either F&M/Rochester/Brockport/Eastern in the Elite 8. All decent teams but F&M did not impress me last night against WCONN who should have beaten them. I know Cortland drew Messiah earlier in the year but they are not playing the same as they were earlier this year. IDK maybe I am wrong but to me that is the easiest Sweet 16 / Elite 8 pod right now because Chicago still has to possibly get by Trinity and Tufts/Amherst will battle in another with Calvin/Kenyon/Case/John Carroll in the last.
That game won't be played until next weekend, right? Game tapes must be shared (even a certain number of those tapes) AND on-sight scouting is not allowed. So, while Calvin has an extra day, per se, I don't see how that's going to make a huge difference. Calvin, may even have restrictions on what they can do on Sundays staff-wise.
Excellent video quality at F&M but angle is off-putting making field look like it's at a 45 degree tilt...I don't understand how these turf fields can look so different on video....like the Rochester field looks dark and wet/splatchy...
And Eastern up 1-0 on a too wide open look and nice shot into side netting....
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 01:21:33 PM
Ramapo takes a 1-0 lead on Conn off a horrible defensive miscue. Long free kick from behind midfield was allowed to bounce by Conn defenders and it bounced right to Ramapo's big striker who headed it over Marcucci. Conn defenders HAVE TO CLEAR that ball out before it bounces..Unacceptable...Conn has already had a few solid chances and this game should be the most competitive today for Nescac teams.
To see that goal, go here https://www.nsnsports.net/colleges/connecticut-college/ and then "On Demand" to find the video. Start watching about 28:30. Joseph Fala is 6'7", and I gather that goals such as this are a huge part of his repertoire. Why not? On set plays he might be virtually unstoppable. Of his NCAA leading 27 goals, 3 are PKs. He puts 56% of his shots on goal--which is not hard to believe, given his size and where he seems to plant himself. The man has just over half of his team's 53 goals.
Chewy Gordon's season ended last week, and his team's season ended this week, so the only other challenger for Fala is Nick West, who got a brace today vs JHU. If Ramapo keeps playing, Fala will probably keep scoring...
Wowzah...Carleton takes a 1-0 lead over Chicago. Free kick off the underside of the bar which hit the Chicago 'keeper and went into the net for an own goal.
Carleton with the 1-0 lead off a decent free kick that bounced down off the crossbar hitting the diving goalkeeper in the back and goes in. Carleton playing stingy defense with high numbers making it hard for Chicago.
West's 2 goals are now up as highlights here: https://gomessiah.com/news/2018/11/11/mens-soccer-messiah-clips-blue-jays-in-ncaa-second-round-at-home.aspx. The second one is just lovely to behold: be sure to see it. Hopkins is no slouch defensively. All season they gave up just 18 goals, less than one per game--but 4 of them to West.
That second goal broke up a tight game. Hopkins dominated possession and got some great looks in the first 20 minutes, but the Falcons had the better of the remainder. After that second goal, however, the Jays started to tire (they played 2 OTs last night) and never really had a chance. Luke Groothoff again looked great in the back, and so did Shay Quintin.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 02:06:02 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 01:50:14 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
I think Hopkins gives them a game today....Surprised Falcon fans are so confident right now...Actually this game could be harder for Messiah then the Sweet 16 IMO.
Which Falcon fans are so confident?
There was a post that was deleted by a Falcon fan that I was responding to. Anyhow, Hopkins came out flying but have settled down a bit and Messiah got the lead from a Nick West Goal.
I made the 90 minute drive up to Messiah to catch this game and was glad I did. Quality soccer for pretty much the entire game. Nick West, unsurprisingly, was the difference. Potted the first goal on a kind of funky deflection header on a set piece. But the second... Brilliant. Nice ball sprung him down the left flank, he used his speed and patience to beat the Hop defender and then just juked the life of the keeper for an easy knock in.
Hopkins was a MUCH better version of themselves this weekend from what I saw last weekend in Haverford. Their lone striker was just better all around, and they utilized #7 a lot more today than what I (frustratingly) observed against F&M.
The first half, really, the game was pretty much a toss up. But the goal was a dagger and a little deflating because while not against the run of play, it didn't really come with Messiah bossing the game. You guys know, as an underdog, when you're holding you're own, that first goal can be a killer.
And I know I don't post enough to be a broken record on here, but... (!!!)
Appleby never switched his formation. Never pushed two or even three forwards forward. I know you can't curse here, but wow is he a frustrating coach. There's over 35 minutes when West potted that second goal. PUSH THE FORMATION FORWARD!
The only reason I didn't leave early is due to the fact that JHU's field hockey team was locked in an epic battle with Messiah in the 3rd round of the playoffs. Hop wound up winning in ET on a sudden victory goal. Tons of fans for both teams and the atmosphere was excellent, so, kind of made the drive worth it. (I love US15 anyways, so...)
Quote from: Falconer on November 11, 2018, 06:39:51 PM
West's 2 goals are now up as highlights here: https://gomessiah.com/news/2018/11/11/mens-soccer-messiah-clips-blue-jays-in-ncaa-second-round-at-home.aspx. The second one is just lovely to behold: be sure to see it. Hopkins is no slouch defensively. All season they gave up just 18 goals, less than one per game--but 4 of them to West.
That second goal broke up a tight game. Hopkins dominated possession and got some great looks in the first 20 minutes, but the Falcons had the better of the remainder. After that second goal, however, the Jays started to tire (they played 2 OTs last night) and never really had a chance. Luke Groothoff again looked great in the back, and so did Shay Quintin.
That was a fair result, to be sure. Messiah is really freaking good and the quality on both sides was just fun to watch. I will say, I was surprised by how often the Falcons turned the ball over, especially in the first half.
Hopkins really struggles to score against quality opponents. They want to pass the ball into the back of the net, or rely on really difficult ticky-tacky touches at the top of the box to spring a goal. They took a few decent shots from 20 yards today, but in general it's way too much E-W.
I don't have the depth of knowledge you guys do, but this Messiah team is extremely solid. Very good in the back, lots of speed out wide, Nick West = Nick West.
I have to say, not super impressed with the goalie. (No offense if a relative is here reading.) He coughed up a few weird rebounds on fairly pedestrian shots. He's not a "problem," but I just found it a little odd. (I'm a goalie, so I'm not just talking mess here.)
But their backline is solid, nice structure in their formation. I'll be pulling for them the rest of the way.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 11, 2018, 06:48:52 PM
Appleby never switched his formation. Never pushed two or even three forwards forward. I know you can't curse here, but wow is he a frustrating coach. There's over 35 minutes when West potted that second goal. PUSH THE FORMATION FORWARD!
I watched the W&L/JHU game yesterday. I was amazed with a 20+ mph wind at their back for the full second half and the first period of OT Hopkins never changed how they played. W&L changed styles for the wind, to some degree, and even though they didn't get a goal, I think they played a more correct game for the conditions. Give JHU's goalie credit on the PKs though, and the Hopkins shooters left no doubt in where they placed those shots.
Carleton defending well. 72 mins in and the Maroons are down 1-0, but really starting to generate good looks. I'm not sure the bye's are a big help. It took Tufts a half to get rolling today, then they dominated the second half with what seemed like countless corners and quality scoring chances before finally cashing in. Let's see if the Maroon's can do the same.
1-1 Maroons, beautiful curler by Adeosun I think it was.
Carleton giving the game away, IMO, by not trying to attack seriously. They just keep dumping and not running.
Chicago makes them pay, tieing it with 11 left. Look in the mirror, Carleton. Just like Amherst vs Rochester last year in the Sweet Sixteen, it was yours to win if you only just played more aggressively on the offensive end.
Beautiful individual goal for Chicago. Chicago totally in control now.
Great shot by Adeosun and the Maroons are level with Carleton in the 79th minute. Huge goal.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 05:17:11 PM
Excellent video quality at F&M but angle is off-putting making field look like it's at a 45 degree tilt...I don't understand how these turf fields can look so different on video....like the Rochester field looks dark and wet/splatchy...
Lots of factors like lighting angles, camera settings, computer/encoding settings, knowledge of the equipment, etc., etc. Also a person's eye on sight is compensating in ways video cameras can not or aren't being allowed to do.
Two phenomenal goals by Chicago to get the win tonight
Quote from: d3commenter on November 11, 2018, 07:57:36 PM
Two phenomenal goals by Chicago to get the win tonight
That freshman Ruark is a real talent. Shame that he wasn't recognized on the all UAA team as I think he is one of the top Freshman in the nation.
Luther and Dominican played and excellent game too. Luther scoring in the last 2 minutes to take the win. We have a Luther-St. Thomas rematch in the Sweet 16. Luther won 2-1 earlier in the year which was an even game.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 11, 2018, 07:31:31 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 10, 2018, 11:29:17 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 10, 2018, 11:24:44 PM
The feed cut out last year too? That's just unforgivable.
Not MSU, Boxcast in general, apologies for the ambiguity. Last year's issue was Brandeis' Boxcast feed, so while MSU can't be blamed for that, Boxcast resulted in similar frustration for viewers.
It's still pretty lame. I'd imagine (even though I really have no idea, as I don't do this sort of thing) that there is some sort of procedures manual that describes what a host institution for an NCAA tournament has to do and how to do it. Since this has happened before, someone should have edited it to say that hosts should enable the manual termination option to avoid inadvertently cutting off the stream prematurely. What are all of those people doing in that big office building in Indianapolis?
Message received... at either NCAA or Boxcast or MSU. Tonight's NYU vs MSU has the stream expiration set for just before midnight.
"NCAA Men's Soccer 1st & 2nd Rounds
Action from the 2nd Round of the NCAA Division III Men's Soccer Championship at MSU Soccer Park as Montclair State hosts New York University
Broadcast started 11/11/18 6:45pm ending 11/11/18 11:59pm"
This MSU-NYU game is very entertaining...but probably not gonna end well...MSU players trash talking directly with NYU fans.. still 1-1...
Really impressed with NYU...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 08:37:59 PM
This MSU-NYU game is very entertaining...but probably not gonna end well...MSU players trash talking directly with NYU fans.. still 1-1...
Really impressed with NYU...
It's worth noting that NYU's head coach is female. I don't know if there are any other female head coaches in college soccer, but it makes their team's story even more special in my eyes. I hope other programs follow suit.
Really hard to root for MSU...like going to a premiere of Jersey Shore and a soccer match breaks out...
Also don't like that can't tell how much time left...
What a save by the NYU goalkeeper off the free kick. Tipped it onto the bar.
I'd like to know how long that half lasted....ref must have stopped the clock a ton...
And yes, great save.....
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 08:54:09 PM
Really hard to root for MSU...like going to a premiere of Jersey Shore and a soccer match breaks out...
Comment of the year. I'm pretty sure it's been a year since the last time I said that, as I believe Mr.Right was saying he should bring the UChicago announcers from Freetown Christiania to his family's Thanksgiving dinner.
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 15, 2017, 02:08:16 PM
On another note: I would love to bring these 2 to Thanksgiving as with all the tension in my family they deserve to be forced to sit and listen for 3 hours to these 2.
And indeed, it has been a year. Congrats to 2018 winner Paul.
And in the Sweet 16 Calvin gets.... PS-Behrend...
And Montclair advances in PKs, after a 1-1 match, following two 1-1 matches yesterday at that site that were also decided by penalties, and aaaargh! Maybe we should declare the whole pod null and void and start over.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 11, 2018, 09:50:33 PM
And Montclair advances in PKs, after a 1-1 match, following two 1-1 matches yesterday at that site that were also decided by penalties, and aaaargh! Maybe we should declare the whole pod null and void and start over.
Lol... I know a few Ford fans and players who would vote for that!
What a great come from behind win for Kenyon today. Was lucky enough to be at the game. It got very chippy in the second half. Lords controlled the pace most of the game but couldn't find the net. CMUs keeper was fantastic, made a ton of great saves. Looking forward to the Lords getting another shot at CWRU.
So the Northeast Sectional will have an all-NESCAC semifinal and an all-NJAC semifinal.
And 6 of the 8 sectional semifinals are rematches from earlier this season.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 09:58:53 PM
So the Northeast Sectional will have an all-NESCAC semifinal and an all-NJAC semifinal.
And 6 of the 8 sectional semifinals are rematches from earlier this season.
Any thoughts on where Messiah will travel to? Rochester is top regional rank left in their pod. They are within 500 miles. So if they are able to host do we assume they will host?
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2018, 10:16:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 09:58:53 PM
So the Northeast Sectional will have an all-NESCAC semifinal and an all-NJAC semifinal.
And 6 of the 8 sectional semifinals are rematches from earlier this season.
Any thoughts on where Messiah will travel to? Rochester is top regional rank left in their pod. They are within 500 miles. So if they are able to host do we assume they will host?
The Messiah women have been sent to Christopher Newport for Sections. That should mean the Messiah men get to host.
I concur. I suspect Messiah will be at home. Rochester and Messiah are both #1 ranked teams, but it seems pretty obvious Messiah is the stronger of the two criteria-wise.
And there are no travel reasons why Messiah men can't host.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 10:48:05 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 11, 2018, 10:16:25 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 11, 2018, 09:58:53 PM
So the Northeast Sectional will have an all-NESCAC semifinal and an all-NJAC semifinal.
And 6 of the 8 sectional semifinals are rematches from earlier this season.
Any thoughts on where Messiah will travel to? Rochester is top regional rank left in their pod. They are within 500 miles. So if they are able to host do we assume they will host?
The Messiah women have been sent to Christopher Newport for Sections. That should mean the Messiah men get to host.
Ah..thought the women would be hosting. That is good news for the team and fans. Thanks for the info.
Messiah men are hosting.
Tufts, Case Western and Chicago the other Sectional hosts.
Tufts-Amherst in the Sweet 16 is going to be an absolute bloodbath. Calling Tufts 2-1 in 2OT.
The Great Lakes Sectional hosted by Case Western will play a Friday-Saturday night schedule.
The other three Sectionals are playing a Saturday-Sunday daytime schedule.
Does every pod and sectional require NCAA postgame interviews? And if not posted on a team's website where can one find them?
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 11, 2018, 11:20:34 PM
Does every pod and sectional require NCAA postgame interviews? And if not posted on a team's website where can one find them?
This is up in the air. They are part of the set-up and planning, but if there is no media on hand, they can be eliminated (usually in agreement with all parties including the NCAA rep onsite). Sometimes schools, even with no media on site, will record post-games so that they can be uploaded (or streamed). Usually they are posted on the school's event-site. That's hard to say where each is, but usually can be found on the team (MSOC, WSOC) page.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 12, 2018, 08:56:35 AM
I made the 90 minute drive up to Messiah to catch this game and was glad I did. Quality soccer for pretty much the entire game. Nick West, unsurprisingly, was the difference. Potted the first goal on a kind of funky deflection header on a set piece. But the second... Brilliant. Nice ball sprung him down the left flank, he used his speed and patience to beat the Hop defender and then just juked the life of the keeper for an easy knock in.
Hopkins was a MUCH better version of themselves this weekend from what I saw last weekend in Haverford. Their lone striker was just better all around, and they utilized #7 a lot more today than what I (frustratingly) observed against F&M.
The first half, really, the game was pretty much a toss up. But the goal was a dagger and a little deflating because while not against the run of play, it didn't really come with Messiah bossing the game. You guys know, as an underdog, when you're holding you're own, that first goal can be a killer.
And I know I don't post enough to be a broken record on here, but... (!!!)
Appleby never switched his formation. Never pushed two or even three forwards forward. I know you can't curse here, but wow is he a frustrating coach. There's over 35 minutes when West potted that second goal. PUSH THE FORMATION FORWARD!
The only reason I didn't leave early is due to the fact that JHU's field hockey team was locked in an epic battle with Messiah in the 3rd round of the playoffs. Hop wound up winning in ET on a sudden victory goal. Tons of fans for both teams and the atmosphere was excellent, so, kind of made the drive worth it. (I love US15 anyways, so...)
Hopkins is a quality team. Glad to play them at home as I think that gave Messiah a slight advantage. Always a scary team to play. Probably the toughest 2nd round game for any of the big 4... Chicago, Calvin, Tufts, Messiah. Similar style as Messiah so not easy to get the ball back once they get it as evidenced in first 20 minutes or so. This particular starting 11 lineup was a first on the year so maybe took some time to settle down. Looked to me like after that first 20 Messiah had a majority of possession but not a lot of shots. They could have taken more whacks from 20-25 but chose not too. Hopkins had a couple from that range that were not far off from ending up in the back of the net. I think along with Calvin...Hopkins is the closest in style to Messiah I have seen them play. Oddly enough though both Messiah goals came in an un Messiah fashion which is encouraging because sometimes in these tight NCAA games you have to score in a variety of ways. No set piece goals but first was a quick 2 pass counter into the box and then double header into the net. Brit, who got his first start on the year I believe, headed it toward Nick for the goal just beating the keeper. Second was Nick just getting the ball in the open field. Justin ran with him.to pull one defender off Nick which allowed him to beat just one defender and then finish. That defender was in a tough position with West having a full head of steam and no help.
Hopefully in the next week we get a couple more bodies healthy so there is more depth at a few positions.
CWRU had no trouble at all in its opening round matches. This next game against Kenyon will be a DILLY!!!!
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 11, 2018, 06:48:52 PM
I made the 90 minute drive up to Messiah to catch this game and was glad I did. Quality soccer for pretty much the entire game.
Thank you for making the effort, Hopkins92. I understand why you went over to the other field to watch the hockey game, but I do hope you found the soccer crowd courteous and perhaps even friendly. Falcon fans want our visitors to feel more than welcome--even though we hope they leave a little disappointed with the result on the field! ;D
I've always enjoyed going to games at Gettysburg, Dickinson, and Etown, though the crowd is usually pretty small except at Etown--which has the best spectator views, by far, putting you right on top of the action. Kind of like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field.
Another 3-0 win against a game but outmatched Mary Hardin-Baylor side sets up a rematch of the Trinity(TX)-UChicago season-opening tie, but this time in the much cooler climes in Illinois. Current long-range forecasts have the temperatures starting in the mid-30s at match start and going down from there - roughly 55 degrees colder than when the two met in San Antonio.
I enjoy watching post-game interviews and also the NCAA tournament previews that some schools do with coaches and players on video talking about the teams and potential opponents, as well as what coaches say in game recaps.
Sterling Weatherbie is the focus of the Tufts NCAA preview. Impressive guy and certainly one of the biggest sort of unsung "winners" in recent memory.
Serpone again had spot-on recap comments yesterday. And of course for any of these coaches it sure is easier to feel really gracious and generous after a win.
No one pulls off sounding so genuine while essentially having the same comments over and over (just insert different opponent team name and name of coach) as Souders at Calvin. Don't let the warm embrace fool ya....super-competitive warrior, and one of the very best coaches in the country right up there with Shapiro.
I've watched a couple of videos of Brandon Bianco, coach of CWRU, and he is an extremely impressive young coach. Sounds smart with great, mature temperament, and exudes building a culture that would make both players and parents feel good. CWRU should do whatever is necessary to keep him as I imagine he will be on the very short list when perceived bigger jobs become available (whether that be another UAA, a NESCAC, or going "home" to OWU).
One of the favorite lines of all these coaches is the "I love this group and am so happy for our guys that we all get to spend another week together," and then there is that classic Shapiro line "we might as well go grab the whole darn thing."
I said before that I would be cheering for CWRU the rest of the way, EXCEPT for a match with Kenyon. If they get by the Lords I will be back on the CWRU bandwagon. Kenyon should be freed up to come out flying, as they are beyond, beyond fortunate to still be playing. The Kenyon announcer was packing up the gear and lamenting that it just wasn't going to be their day. CMU was running out the clock frustrating the heck out of Kenyon with that deal by the corner flag until the Lords got one last gasp down the field and after a corner and scrum with the Kenyon GK in the CMU box somehow a frosh got his foot on the ball and knocked it in the net with 30 seconds left. Despite a shots disadvantage that distorts the true feel of the game, CMU had seemed well in control. The Tartans are a very good team with some excellent players, including the GK who makes phenomenal saves. Brutal way to lose for CMU.
Some superb Sweet 16 games coming.....with fascinating set-ups about who will be feeling more pressure. Amherst should feel great about taking their best shot at Tufts. Trinity shouldn't feel intimidated by Chicago. Will Montclair be relieved to get back to a NJAC team and/or will Ramapo be chomping at the bit after getting drilled 5-0 in the NJAC final? Who will benefit more from having played earlier, Cortland or Messiah? Eastern versus Rochester feels like a toss-up. And what about St. Thomas as a sleeper pick at this point?
Watched the Tufts/Stevens game on live stream. Tufts totally dominated (something like 10 corners to Stevens' 1), though one lapse of concentration almost cost them the game on a counter. Najjar picked up the yellow outside of the box, but Tufts was lucky to escape there, looked like a 3 on 2.
Realistically, Tufts should have had 3-4 goals. My big takeaway was the Jumbos' inability to finish - they hit the post twice, had numerous headers they put straight at the keeper or wide, and had several other great chances (notably in the 5th minutes there was a cross played into Braun's feet, who was wide open in the box but hit it straight at the keeper). Tufts can certainly grind out wins, but they will need to be much more lethal in their finishing...it doesn't matter how many opportunities you create if you can't put one or two of them away...it could come back to bite them against a team like Amherst, who will be looking to muck up the game and throw Tufts off its brand of possession soccer. Amherst is a team that knows how to grind out wins too, so Tufts must take every chance it can get in that game, as I don't think we'll see too many golden opportunities to score.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 12, 2018, 10:50:11 AMWho will benefit more from having played earlier, Cortland or Messiah?
It's hard to say, actually. Teams that play Messiah regularly know exactly what they're in for--a possession-oriented team that usually builds from the back and is more likely to score in the run of play than off set pieces. In theory, once you know that, you know it and can prepare for it. In practice, however, a lot of teams find themselves shaking their heads at the skill level at some point in the game: you can see players doing just that in brief lulls. (I definitely noticed several players from Baruch doing this on Saturday, but not JHU players yesterday. They already know what it would be like--and they are also highly skilled and play a similar style game.) I would say that, having seen the Falcons once already will help Cortland players prepare mentally for what they will face.
On the other hand, Messiah players know what Cortland brought on opening day: an over-the-top physical game. I can't say whether Cortland plays that way regularly, since I've seen them just that one time. Their foul totals are ordinary, 255 fouls in 22 games (the Falcons have just 134 in 21 games), but they have 20 YCs and 2 RCs, indicating some tendency to overdo it. On opening day, fouls actually called were 22-6 Cortland, and the Red Dragons were also booked twice. IMO (as I said at the time), the official swallowed his whistle that day: both numbers should have been significantly higher, and 3 Falcons were injured and missed some games. So, I would say that a key to the game will be the quality of officiating. If those boys are on top of their game, it will probably help the Falcons more than the Dragons. In my experience, officiating in tournament games is usually much better than in the regular season--I thought both games in Grantham this weekend were expertly officiated--but, there are always exceptions.
A subtler factor, relative to opening day, is that Nick West is now being used differently--or, perhaps it's simply that his teammates know understand how to use him more fully. He still took 7 shots vs Cortland, 3 of them on frame (one more than the entire Cortland team, which scored on both of their SOG), but it wasn't until partway through the second game vs Whitworth that they started looking for him over the top, as they have done ever since. Also, the Falcons have found others scorers since West's streak ended. There are now 3 Falcons with 5 or 6 goals and 1 with 4. Also, Kokolios has 3 in 15 starts; he was the leading point scorer behind West when he went down and missed several games. He only just returned for a few minutes on Saturday. It would help the Falcons is he can play more vs Cortland. This weekend, they scored 7 goals with only 2 by West. So, they are now more well balanced offensively than at mid-season.
Cortland has two main scoring threats, Keller with 18(!) goals and Ormsby with 12. Neither man scored opening day. After them, it's all the way down to Ruggiero with 4 (he had a great goal opening day) and then no one else with more than 3 goals. So, job one for Messiah is to shut down Keller and Ormsby, not forgetting that Cortland has several other players very capable of scoring. While Cortland knows exactly whom they have to shut down, so who else will be open for the Falcons?
Falconer, any thoughts about the other Sweet 16 games?
MSU dodged a bullet with their player only getting a YC vs NYU in 2nd half Play was reminiscent of MA Boston vs Haverford where the player blasted the ball at him after the foul. Followed by a subsequent two handed forceful shove.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 12, 2018, 01:26:32 PM
MSU dodged a bullet with their player only getting a YC vs NYU in 2nd half Play was reminiscent of MA Boston vs Haverford where the player blasted the ball at him after the foul. Followed by a subsequent two handed forceful shove.
Very fortunate. That said MSU is VERY talented....a lot of players with skill and get off a ton of hard shots. I imagine they will get by Ramapo, and if Amherst is there I'd give them a decent to good chance to prevail. I cannot see them beating Tufts.
Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 12, 2018, 01:26:32 PM
MSU dodged a bullet with their player only getting a YC vs NYU in 2nd half Play was reminiscent of MA Boston vs Haverford where the player blasted the ball at him after the foul. Followed by a subsequent two handed forceful shove.
I thought it was a clear red. The refs at the games at Montclair were very reluctant to give cards on Saturday and so the play got very ragged and rough. Sunday's game was a result of that, with lots of fouls and ugly play.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 11, 2018, 09:08:09 PM
Comment of the year. I'm pretty sure it's been a year since the last time I said that, as I believe Mr.Right was saying he should bring the UChicago announcers from Freetown Christiania to his family's Thanksgiving dinner.
I hope Auntie Right does a good job with the cranberries lest she be called out for delivering "weak sauce" ;)
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 12, 2018, 05:16:37 PM
I hope Auntie Right does a good job with the cranberries lest she be called out for delivering "weak sauce" ;)
Laughed out loud
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 11, 2018, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 03:30:19 PM
Calvin has an unfair advantage as they can scout the John Carroll match tonight because they will play the winner. That really is not right at all and I doubt those teams would have scouted Calvin yesterday before even playing their first games last night. Calvin has a tough draw next weekend. IMO Messiah might have the easiest path as they will face Cortland/Etown winner and then either F&M/Rochester/Brockport/Eastern in the Elite 8. All decent teams but F&M did not impress me last night against WCONN who should have beaten them. I know Cortland drew Messiah earlier in the year but they are not playing the same as they were earlier this year. IDK maybe I am wrong but to me that is the easiest Sweet 16 / Elite 8 pod right now because Chicago still has to possibly get by Trinity and Tufts/Amherst will battle in another with Calvin/Kenyon/Case/John Carroll in the last.
That game won't be played until next weekend, right? Game tapes must be shared (even a certain number of those tapes) AND on-sight scouting is not allowed. So, while Calvin has an extra day, per se, I don't see how that's going to make a huge difference. Calvin, may even have restrictions on what they can do on Sundays staff-wise.
I am not aware of game tapes that MUST be shared to all Staffs.....Where is there a rule about that? Also, on site scouting always used to happen. It was never a problem up until 2015 and plenty of Coaches would do this if able to because of different gametimes. So unless there has been some new restrictions passed I do not know of anything that does not permit Coaches to scout teams if able to...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 12, 2018, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 11, 2018, 04:20:49 PM
That game won't be played until next weekend, right? Game tapes must be shared (even a certain number of those tapes) AND on-sight scouting is not allowed. So, while Calvin has an extra day, per se, I don't see how that's going to make a huge difference. Calvin, may even have restrictions on what they can do on Sundays staff-wise.
I am not aware of game tapes that MUST be shared to all Staffs.....Where is there a rule about that? Also, on site scouting always used to happen. It was never a problem up until 2015 and plenty of Coaches would do this if able to because of different gametimes. So unless there has been some new restrictions passed I do not know of anything that does not permit Coaches to scout teams if able to...
Yeah, I've definitely seen coaches scouting on-site both this year and last year.
My vote for "feel-good" story of the tournament to this point is Jeremy Payne's (Messiah '14) Eastern Eagles heading to the Sweet 16 where they'll play on the site of so many of Payne's accomplishments - Messiah's Shoemaker field.
Quote from: Falconer on November 12, 2018, 09:40:25 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 11, 2018, 06:48:52 PM
I made the 90 minute drive up to Messiah to catch this game and was glad I did. Quality soccer for pretty much the entire game.
Thank you for making the effort, Hopkins92. I understand why you went over to the other field to watch the hockey game, but I do hope you found the soccer crowd courteous and perhaps even friendly. Falcon fans want our visitors to feel more than welcome--even though we hope they leave a little disappointed with the result on the field! ;D
I've always enjoyed going to games at Gettysburg, Dickinson, and Etown, though the crowd is usually pretty small except at Etown--which has the best spectator views, by far, putting you right on top of the action. Kind of like Fenway Park or Wrigley Field.
Played at Etown and, yeah, tremendous field.
I'm a loner when it comes to watching games, so I usually sit up high or like I did on Sat behind a goal with no one else around for the second half. That was my first time at Messiah and I really enjoyed it. Beautiful campus and the field and environment are tremendous. Only folks I interacted with were field hockey fans up on the hill and they were gracious in defeat. I was actually pretty surprised by how many Hopkins field hockey fans were there. I didn't realize it was for a spot in the final four until after the game ended, so it made more sense.
I had no idea how Tufts scored (or how late in the game....82nd minute) until browsing around last night and seeing the video of the goal. Essentially the same play as the 109th minute goal for Tufts versus Kenyon in the 2016 Elite 8 game. In 2016 it was Weatherbie with a throw to Eichhorst who headed back into the box where Majumder got a foot on the ball for a trickle in GW. Sunday versus Stevens, on the same side of the field, a few yards further down towards the touchline, it was AGAIN Weatherbie with the throw to Paoletta who nods the ball back into the box (like Eichhorst) creating a remarkably open loose ball in space where Tasker gets foot on it and blasts the ball into the net. I recall Halliday in the 2016 post-game say they had been trying that play all season and that was the first time it worked.
Speaking of D3's best defenders, few can be better than Bret Lowry for Kenyon. Started almost every game since coming on campus, an AA last year, NCAC Defender of the Year this year. Makes plays all over the field all game long. Chased down and ran off the ball a CMU player on a breakaway that would have sealed the win for CMU in the 2nd half. He has an amazing ability to strip balls without fouling. Makes game winning plays that are hardly noticed and then game winning plays like the last second goal against Wabash that in retrospect might have been the difference in getting the Lords in the NCAA tournament. Arguably the best defender in the history of Kenyon soccer.
Kudos to Chewy Gordon for a phenomenal season that unfortunately was cut short by injury. Looks like the played the last minute of the 1st half and last minute of the 2nd half in Capital's last game with CWRU. Incredibly painful for these seniors who have had great careers and/or great seasons who suffer a late injury.
Jeremy Payne is a great story, but for me more because of his age than his Messiah heritage. Must be like 26 or at most 27, and even with his pedigree it is impressive for him to do such a great job with a full college team not that much younger than him.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 11, 2018, 11:05:40 PM
Tufts-Amherst in the Sweet 16 is going to be an absolute bloodbath. Calling Tufts 2-1 in 2OT.
Let's hope so! But there will be blood...
Quote from: Dave B on November 13, 2018, 09:26:11 AM
My vote for "feel-good" story of the tournament to this point is Jeremy Payne's (Messiah '14) Eastern Eagles heading to the Sweet 16 where they'll play on the site of so many of Payne's accomplishments - Messiah's Shoemaker field.
If Eastern and Messiah both get to Elite 8 and play head to head that will really make for a great story. Cooper Robbin's brother Kirby is assisting at Eastern as well .
I'm going to try this again....
Ramapo is legit and will beat MSU.
Off topic, but the seeding for the ECAC was strange. Newark hosted a pod as #1 seed, Willy P was a #4 seed and had to travel to Neumann?
Newark hosts the semis:
Drew vs Wesley
WPU vs Newark
My guess is that WPU beats Drew in the final...
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 12, 2018, 10:05:22 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 11, 2018, 04:20:49 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 11, 2018, 03:30:19 PM
Calvin has an unfair advantage as they can scout the John Carroll match tonight because they will play the winner. That really is not right at all and I doubt those teams would have scouted Calvin yesterday before even playing their first games last night. Calvin has a tough draw next weekend. IMO Messiah might have the easiest path as they will face Cortland/Etown winner and then either F&M/Rochester/Brockport/Eastern in the Elite 8. All decent teams but F&M did not impress me last night against WCONN who should have beaten them. I know Cortland drew Messiah earlier in the year but they are not playing the same as they were earlier this year. IDK maybe I am wrong but to me that is the easiest Sweet 16 / Elite 8 pod right now because Chicago still has to possibly get by Trinity and Tufts/Amherst will battle in another with Calvin/Kenyon/Case/John Carroll in the last.
That game won't be played until next weekend, right? Game tapes must be shared (even a certain number of those tapes) AND on-sight scouting is not allowed. So, while Calvin has an extra day, per se, I don't see how that's going to make a huge difference. Calvin, may even have restrictions on what they can do on Sundays staff-wise.
I am not aware of game tapes that MUST be shared to all Staffs.....Where is there a rule about that? Also, on site scouting always used to happen. It was never a problem up until 2015 and plenty of Coaches would do this if able to because of different gametimes. So unless there has been some new restrictions passed I do not know of anything that does not permit Coaches to scout teams if able to...
Yes. Tape sharing is a must. For example, if you make the tournament, you are required to send your last two games (at least) to your opponent.
And you may see coaches from the teams in participation at that current pod scouting. That is perfectly allowed, but as I understand it you can't send coaches to another pod. That said, I have scoured the rules (in multiple locations) and it isn't clear about that. It is clear about video taping and such and it indicates at the championship weekend people can pay a ticket and come in and scout (which is odd), but nothing else.
So ... I'm contacting a couple of committee people I know to confirm. I'll update as soon as I can.
Quote from: rudy on November 13, 2018, 12:51:38 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 13, 2018, 09:26:11 AM
My vote for "feel-good" story of the tournament to this point is Jeremy Payne's (Messiah '14) Eastern Eagles heading to the Sweet 16 where they'll play on the site of so many of Payne's accomplishments - Messiah's Shoemaker field.
If Eastern and Messiah both get to Elite 8 and play head to head that will really make for a great story. Cooper Robbin's brother Kirby is assisting at Eastern as well .
I'm really hoping for that match-up and while I knew that Payne had former Falcons as assistants, I didn't realize that Robbins was one of them. I hope Cooper is available to play this weekend.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 13, 2018, 11:59:47 AM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 11, 2018, 11:05:40 PM
Tufts-Amherst in the Sweet 16 is going to be an absolute bloodbath. Calling Tufts 2-1 in 2OT.
Let's hope so! But there will be blood...
Last time they played it only took a Dane Lind elbow 9 seconds in to the game to draw blood as well as the ensuing yellow card... It may take longer than 9 seconds this time around, but no guarantees.
Is Rochester the most under the radar really good team in the country? I expect the Yellowjackets to advance, and I would give them a fair chance versus the Falcons if Cortland cannot pull the upset. Rochester has been knocking on the door for a Final Four breakthrough, and they have familiarity with Messiah. They also easily could have won their game at Chicago where the Maroons scored in the final minute. I was flipping back and forth between games when they played Brockport but every time I tuned in UR appeared to have Brockport pinned in and under siege, one day after Brockport disposed of SLU.
St Thomas, a team that has had back to back Final Four and Elite 8 seasons, also barely has been mentioned this season.
All of these teams know they are only two wins away from Greensboro.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 03:59:52 PM
Is Rochester the most under the radar really good team in the country? I expect the Yellowjackets to advance, and I would give them a fair chance versus the Falcons if Cortland cannot pull the upset. Rochester has been knocking on the door for a Final Four breakthrough, and they have familiarity with Messiah.
Yeah, they're good. They don't have any superstars, but they're very solid and streetwise in the Tournament. If I had to pick a team outside of my Final 4 selections — Tufts, Messiah, Chicago, Calvin — to gatecrash the party, it'd be Rochester.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 03:59:52 PM
Is Rochester the most under the radar really good team in the country? I expect the Yellowjackets to advance, and I would give them a fair chance versus the Falcons if Cortland cannot pull the upset. Rochester has been knocking on the door for a Final Four breakthrough, and they have familiarity with Messiah. They also easily could have won their game at Chicago where the Maroons scored in the final minute. I was flipping back and forth between games when they played Brockport but every time I tuned in UR appeared to have Brockport pinned in and under siege, one day after Brockport disposed of SLU.
St Thomas, a team that has had back to back Final Four and Elite 8 seasons, also barely has been mentioned this season.
All of these teams know they are only two wins away from Greensboro.
You could say the same about SUNY Cortland. They have a lot of team speed and a couple dangerous scorers. Really tough team. The coach has had a very successful run the past 4 years. Messiah will have their hands full.
What, have we morphed into the quiet period?
I mean, do we really think Chicago is going to get by Trinity? Isn't Trinity due for a big win instead of a disappointing exit? How does this Trinity edition compare with those from the preceding 5-6 years?
Hopefully in addition to the excellent sectional reviews for the site Mr.Right will give us a breakdown and prediction on Amherst-Tufts with maybe a bonus review of the NJAC re-match.
After I posted above about Rochester I realized that UR as a team/school mirrors Rochester the city/area in terms of being off the radar. BTW, I'm not sure I've ever seen a UR fan post on this board. Rochester the area is off the radar as in sort of off the map. About midway between Syracuse and Buffalo, Rochester is closer to Cleveland than it is to Boston or NYC. Rochester generally is not a place most folks think of going unless vacationing on the Finger Lakes or on the way to Niagara Falls. What most think of is that the area is usually cloudy and gets really, really cold, and most don't think of UR as a school to consider. That said, UR is a superb school, with an also under the radar but very well-respected medical school. The library is as impressive as almost any building on any campus in America and the Eastman School of Music is first-rate. The city is a mix of deteriorated spots and revitalized neighborhoods with a lot of culture for a city its size, lots of beautiful parks, and surprisingly manageable traffic. It is the home of wonderful Wegmans, the deluxe grocery chain now thankfully multiplying with stores in Massachusetts. And it played a central role in the nation's civil rights history with Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass, statues of both sharing a square down the street from the Susan B. Anthony House. Nearby is the Freedom Trail with Seneca Falls.
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
I mean, do we really think Chicago is going to get by Trinity? Isn't Trinity due for a big win instead of a disappointing exit? How does this Trinity edition compare with those from the preceding 5-6 years?
Trinity has compiled yet another stellar record over the course of the season. I would be a lot more confident in their chances of an upset had my dominant impression of their epic battle with Chicago in the heat and humidity of September 2nd not been that the Maroons could easily have scored 2-3 more goals (through some combination of deserving PKs not awarded and Matthew Koh near misses). A lot may have changed for both teams since then, though, so we'll see...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
I'm not sure that I qualify as a Rochester fan, but I can certainly be counted as an admirer of the program and Coach Apple. The team is remarkably consistent from year to year, and no one writes a better, more literate recruiting letter (yes, that's "letter," not "email" or "text") than Coach Apple. Meliora!
Yeah, Chicago v Trinity is a tough call. However IMO, I've watched quite a few MIAC games this year and thought that style would cause Chicago some fits with the defensive structured bunker mentality. All four MIAC teams were in the top left bracket and you saw what Carleton was able to do.
Chicago played MIAC squad Macalester earlier in the year and survived 2-0 with a late goal at home for the win. (And I believe Macalester beat St Thomas 3-0 in their match up this year).
I just think that Trinity is good match up for Chicago with the pitch opening up which will play to Chicago's strengths. The game these teams played earlier in the year, Chicago was up 3-1 with about 30 to play and some crazy calls on both sides ended the game in a draw down in San Antonio. I will say that Chicago's young back line and keeper have made good strides since that match up and should be ready for the challenge. I don't buy some of what I've heard about Trinity and the cold weather. Looking forward to an entertaining match up.
It might indeed be the case that Messiah will have the toughest road to the Final Four, as has been suggested. Soon we'll know. The Falcons played Rochester in the Elite Eight last year and Cortland to open this year, and they will be very tough outs--even if the Falcons were full strength. In fact, they aren't anywhere near full strength. It is literally not the same team that played most of the conference games. I don't think Cooper Robbins has been cleared to play yet (concussion protocol), and the rest of the injury situation is even worse than it was last weekend. If my sources are right, then I expect at least 5 regulars not to be in the starting lineup, and 3 of them not to play at all, including a CB (Robbins) and the best ball handler, a defensive MF. I cannot recall any previous season in which the Falcons have seen more key players missing at any point in the season, let alone for the most important games. It is what it is: what can you do?
If they can survive the weekend, however, two weeks of rest will surely help. Two men are out for the season regardless, but the Falcons might be close to full strength again if they can get to the Final Four. Big hurdles to clear first.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 14, 2018, 10:42:34 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
I mean, do we really think Chicago is going to get by Trinity? Isn't Trinity due for a big win instead of a disappointing exit? How does this Trinity edition compare with those from the preceding 5-6 years?
Trinity has compiled yet another stellar record over the course of the season. I would be a lot more confident in their chances of an upset had my dominant impression of their epic battle with Chicago in the heat and humidity of September 2nd not been that the Maroons could easily have scored 2-3 more goals (through some combination of deserving PKs not awarded and Matthew Koh near misses). A lot may have changed for both teams since then, though, so we'll see...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
I'm not sure that I qualify as a Rochester fan, but I can certainly be counted as an admirer of the program and Coach Apple. The team is remarkably consistent from year to year, and no one writes a better, more literate recruiting letter (yes, that's "letter," not "email" or "text") than Coach Apple. Meliora!
Yes, Meliora ("Ever Better")!
Surprised we haven't had any weather posts. I guess a storm is coming through but I can't figure out which sites will or will not be significantly impacted. Sounds like Grantham may be in the crosshairs.
The snow is already falling here in southcentral PA, with accumulations of 6 inches or more expected in the next few hours followed by rain/sleet/wintery mix this evening and overnight. No precipitation expected Friday thru Sunday. Temps to be in the 30 (low) to 45 (high) range throughout. It's going to be interesting to see what the field condition is at Messiah come Saturday morning.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 09:49:41 AM
Surprised we haven't had any weather posts. I guess a storm is coming through but I can't figure out which sites will or will not be significantly impacted. Sounds like Grantham may be in the crosshairs.
Looking out my windows, I see snow falling--big flakes, which usually indicate less accumulation. Central PA is presently forecast as follows: "Heavy mixed precipitation expected. Total snow accumulations of 3 to 5 inches and ice accumulations of up to one tenth of an inch are expected." It's supposed to be low 40s the next three days, dropping just below freezing at night. I don't think we're going to get smashed on this one, just inconvenienced today and maybe tomorrow morning. I think the snow will be gone from Shoemaker Field by tomorrow evening.
If not, then perhaps they will plow it off of the turf field that had to be used for the Sweet Sixteen and Elite Eight games last year, owing to extraordinarily wet conditions. That's a lovely field, and the Falcons played IMO their single best game all season on that carpet vs Rochester--it's only a bit of an exaggeration to say that Rochester didn't touch the ball. There were long stretches in which that was literally true. Of the 11 Falcon starters that day (https://gomessiah.com/boxscore.aspx?path=msoc&id=6077), however, five graduated and two more are injured. At most four of them will start this weekend--though I'd love to be pleasantly surprised by a higher number.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
BTW, I'm not sure I've ever seen a UR fan post on this board.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
Well, I did go to grad school at the U of R, so while they're not my primary rooting interest, I would like for them to do well. Does that count?
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 03:59:52 PM
I
St Thomas, a team that has had back to back Final Four and Elite 8 seasons, also barely has been mentioned this season.
This year's St. Thomas team is far different from the teams of the past 2 years. They graduated 9 seniors from last years team, with 7 of them being starters (Including the MIAC and USC Player of the year). They are very young this year, and the youth they brought in are good but not at the level of the past 2 years. They were semi-fortunate to get an at large bid, and then very fortunate to host one of the weakest pods in the tournament. I expect Luther to beat them, as they did dominate the bulk of their regular season match up that ended 2-1 in favor of Luther. It can be argued that St. Thomas did start playing better as the season went on, I think they just aren't that talented this year. But, tournament soccer is different and they will try and absorb pressure from Luther and hit them on the break, which could work considering Luther does play a possession/attacking oriented style of soccer.
As I've stated before, I would love to see a Luther/Chicago Elite 8 matchup. For reference, I have not watched Trinity this year, but I have watched the Luther and Chicago and I figure that would be a class game to watch.
Quote from: 4samuy on November 14, 2018, 10:55:40 PM
Chicago played MIAC squad Macalester earlier in the year and survived 2-0 with a late goal at home for the win. (And I believe Macalester beat St Thomas 3-0 in their match up this year).
I would not put much merit on the MIAC vs MIAC games and try to put some transitive property to how Chicago would fare. Each game will be a different game. I will say that if St. Thomas finds themselves past Luther the matchup with Chicago (given they win) will be interesting for Chicago. After falling early to Carleton they will have to make sure that does not happen again. I believe this St. Thomas will be better than Carleton when it comes to holding onto the game. A recent tournament experienced coach who has learned how to come back from being down and hold off teams to win.
Quote from: MinnesotaSoccer10 on November 15, 2018, 12:33:35 PM
This year's St. Thomas team is far different from the teams of the past 2 years. They graduated 9 seniors from last years team, with 7 of them being starters (Including the MIAC and USC Player of the year). They are very young this year, and the youth they brought in are good but not at the level of the past 2 years. They were semi-fortunate to get an at large bid, and then very fortunate to host one of the weakest pods in the tournament. I expect Luther to beat them, as they did dominate the bulk of their regular season match up that ended 2-1 in favor of Luther. It can be argued that St. Thomas did start playing better as the season went on, I think they just aren't that talented this year. But, tournament soccer is different and they will try and absorb pressure from Luther and hit them on the break, which could work considering Luther does play a possession/attacking oriented style of soccer.
You are very right about the youth of this year's team. I do not think Luther dominated the bulk of the previous game. I watched it and yes Luther had the ball a bit more but possession is not dominating. St. Thomas played without the starting GK as well. Teams grow into the tournament and this team may just surprise. This young team will be a team to keep an eye on as they age. They are starting in a much better place than the previous graduated senior class did when they showed up as freshman.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 15, 2018, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
BTW, I'm not sure I've ever seen a UR fan post on this board.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
Well, I did go to grad school at the U of R, so while they're not my primary rooting interest, I would like for them to do well. Does that count?
Sadly, that does not count, as you only like them and they are not a primary rooting interest. You are not a true-blue homer for the Yellowjackets. I am not a true fan either, as I confess to never once going to a UR game during my daughter's four years on River Campus. But at least you did get a great education.
Falconer, I looked at the box score and the stats were not nearly as lopsided as I expected given your comments. I'm sure Messiah had a possession advantage as they always do, but after 60+ minutes it was a 0-0 game.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 02:24:26 PM
Falconer, I looked at the box score and the stats were not nearly as lopsided as I expected given your comments. I'm sure Messiah had a possession advantage as they always do, but after 60+ minutes it was a 0-0 game.
You're right, but after the first goal the Falcons pretty much put the ball in the freezer. There was a stretch in that part of the game when it seemed like 3-4 minutes without anyone from Rochester getting a touch. Some shorter stretches identical to that. In other words, when Rochester absolutely needed to have the ball, they couldn't get it.
Quote from: Falconer on November 15, 2018, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 02:24:26 PM
Falconer, I looked at the box score and the stats were not nearly as lopsided as I expected given your comments. I'm sure Messiah had a possession advantage as they always do, but after 60+ minutes it was a 0-0 game.
You're right, but after the first goal the Falcons pretty much put the ball in the freezer. There was a stretch in that part of the game when it seemed like 3-4 minutes without anyone from Rochester getting a touch. Some shorter stretches identical to that. In other words, when Rochester absolutely needed to have the ball, they couldn't get it.
Yeah, Messiah isn't a team you want to be chasing the game with down even 1-0 much less 2-0. And course we know from just this year that going up a goal or two on Messiah isn't necessarily going to prevent the Falcons from coming back, but if a team has to pick they'd definitely prefer to get the first goal and take their chances (a la Tufts 2014). An interesting scenario is an even game that gets late, and whether the Falcons as heavy favorites will start to panic a little deep into a game or in OT. And in pressing for that winning goal do they take the risk of giving up a goal on the counter. I know Falcons fans were worried (and the announcers were freaking) in 2013 when it was 1-1 with Kenyon late, and in retrospect 2013 might have been the Lord's best chance to get to the Final Four as a converted sitter around the 75th minute would have really put the Falcons in a bind.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 04:49:29 PM
An interesting scenario is an even game that gets late, and whether the Falcons as heavy favorites will start to panic a little deep into a game or in OT. And in pressing for that winning goal do they take the risk of giving up a goal on the counter.
I just cannot imagine this team panicking. I was so impressed with their composure when they came back from 2-0 down to JHU, a solid team in its own right. When behind, even with the clock ticking down, they simply went about their methodical yet relentless attack until the Hopkins lead was wiped out.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 15, 2018, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 04:49:29 PM
An interesting scenario is an even game that gets late, and whether the Falcons as heavy favorites will start to panic a little deep into a game or in OT. And in pressing for that winning goal do they take the risk of giving up a goal on the counter.
I just cannot imagine this team panicking. I was so impressed with their composure when they came back from 2-0 down to JHU, a solid team in its own right. When behind, even with the clock ticking down, they simply went about their methodical yet relentless attack until the Hopkins lead was wiped out.
Disagree. I think
any team can start to feel really uneasy in a NCAA one-off situation, especially a heavy favorite. Certainly Messiah more than most teams will have confidence that they can score/equalize and/or snag a late game winner, but when you get to the last 5-10 minutes or overtime when the next goal is most likely going to decide things, and when you are just as worried about the other team getting a late game winner while you're wanting a game winner I don't think there is any immunity to feeling pressure mount.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 15, 2018, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 04:49:29 PM
An interesting scenario is an even game that gets late, and whether the Falcons as heavy favorites will start to panic a little deep into a game or in OT. And in pressing for that winning goal do they take the risk of giving up a goal on the counter.
I just cannot imagine this team panicking. I was so impressed with their composure when they came back from 2-0 down to JHU, a solid team in its own right. When behind, even with the clock ticking down, they simply went about their methodical yet relentless attack until the Hopkins lead was wiped out.
I didn't say that such panic couldn't or wouldn't happen, just that I couldn't imagine it. My imagination must not be very good ;)
Disagree. I think any team can start to feel really uneasy in a NCAA one-off situation, especially a heavy favorite. Certainly Messiah more than most teams will have confidence that they can score/equalize and/or snag a late game winner, but when you get to the last 5-10 minutes or overtime when the next goal is most likely going to decide things, and when you are just as worried about the other team getting a late game winner while you're wanting a game winner I don't think there is any immunity to feeling pressure mount.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
What, have we morphed into the quiet period?
I mean, do we really think Chicago is going to get by Trinity? Isn't Trinity due for a big win instead of a disappointing exit? How does this Trinity edition compare with those from the preceding 5-6 years?
Hopefully in addition to the excellent sectional reviews for the site Mr.Right will give us a breakdown and prediction on Amherst-Tufts with maybe a bonus review of the NJAC re-match.
After I posted above about Rochester I realized that UR as a team/school mirrors Rochester the city/area in terms of being off the radar. BTW, I'm not sure I've ever seen a UR fan post on this board. Rochester the area is off the radar as in sort of off the map. About midway between Syracuse and Buffalo, Rochester is closer to Cleveland than it is to Boston or NYC. Rochester generally is not a place most folks think of going unless vacationing on the Finger Lakes or on the way to Niagara Falls. What most think of is that the area is usually cloudy and gets really, really cold, and most don't think of UR as a school to consider. That said, UR is a superb school, with an also under the radar but very well-respected medical school. The library is as impressive as almost any building on any campus in America and the Eastman School of Music is first-rate. The city is a mix of deteriorated spots and revitalized neighborhoods with a lot of culture for a city its size, lots of beautiful parks, and surprisingly manageable traffic. It is the home of wonderful Wegmans, the deluxe grocery chain now thankfully multiplying with stores in Massachusetts. And it played a central role in the nation's civil rights history with Susan B. Anthony and Frederick Douglass, statues of both sharing a square down the street from the Susan B. Anthony House. Nearby is the Freedom Trail with Seneca Falls.
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
Unfortunately I will be heading out of town on Saturday morning so I will only be catching the Calvin/PSU Behrend and Case/Kenyon/ Friday Sweet 16 match-ups. So I will be relying on some of you to provide updates here and there because I will be in the air for most of these games.
I really cannot give an accurate breakdown of MSU v Ramapo because I have only seen them both play this past weekend. Based on what I saw MSU has more individual talent especially in midfield but Ramapo might have the better striker and GK'er which usually matters more in November. I will say neither team is the most disciplined but I thought Ramapo did a nice job defensively against Conn on Sunday. I did not watch MSU advance over NYU so I can only comment on what I saw against Colby. Based on how they defended as a team against Colby they might be able to get past Ramapo but if they defend like that against Tufts or Amherst they will get concede maybe 3 Goals. They are very dangerous going forward and but are to undisciplined defensively as they looked to be rather unorganized back there. I liked one of their CB's but if they are giving THAT MUCH space as they gave to Colby I think they get burned especially against Amherst. They are leaving their GK high and dry on the counter because they do not require or ask their attacking players to defend. Now against Colby it turned it into a very entertaining game because Colby has never seen that much open field in Nescac play and almost got over excited and came to far out of its shell which in turn allowed MSU's more talented attacking players to get some dangerous chances against Colby. It was one of the more enjoyable games from last weekend. Basically, if MSU does not track back against Amherst or Tufts they will have some issues IMO so they better outscore them which I do not see happening either. However, if Ramapo's GK played like he did against Conn and remember he and his defense has not allowed a Goal in the NCAA's as of yet then Ramapo might just advance against MSU BUT their confidence might be a bit fragile against an MSU side who picked them apart only 2 weeks ago. I will say it should be a much more entertaining game than the Tufts v Amherst game.
Tufts v Amherst---------I have written about these teams all year so there really is not much else to say at this point. There are no surprises in this game as both teams know each other very well. Amherst plays in a 4-3-3 which is technically a 4-5-1 because they pinch their wingers very tight in midfield. Tufts almost looks like they are playing in a 4-1-4-1 because with Rojas and Van Brewer are both on the field they are not helping hold with Aroh. I would expect to see maybe more of Delaney in this game but Shapiro has been giving a ton of minutes to the Frosh Seigelstein who I thought was one year away because of his slight frame but he has proven to be very skilled and looked pretty dangerous with the ball at his feet. Anyway, both teams love to control midfield over their opponents and whoever can do it in this match will win the game as long as they finish their chance(s). I expect both teams to be pretty tight defensively in this game so do not expect many chances for either team as 1 goal might do it. I give the backline advantage to Tufts as Weatherbie, Najjar, Paoletta and Daly are more steady and consistent to me than Amherst backline right now. I do like Amherst wingbacks long thrower Johnson and O'Brien as they should be able to handle Tasker and Lane. O'Brien is as fast as Tasker and should not get beaten more than once or twice in this game by Tasker. Lane is quicker than Johnson but not by as much as you think as for a big guy Johnson is pacey but also is a smart defender that usually does not make many mistakes back there. If Fitzgerald and Wu are starting at CB that makes me nervy as Wu is an inconsistent player and Fitzgerald is big and physical but mighty slow that is why I know Shapiro will give Braun the bulk of the minutes but I still say Jacobs could do some damage up top against those two CB's. Still Braun should get a real solid look or two in this game but frankly his finishing has not been good recently. In net I would take the Senior Meith over Amherst Frosh White. White has been good up until last Sunday against St.Joe's where they proved if you shoot low against White you can get goals as he was a step slow getting down. If the game goes to PK's I would rather Mieth as White is an unknown unless Amherst has another one of their 3 GK's they use in PK's. Because Amherst pinches their wingers Tufts will have plenty of space out wide in which they keep Tasker and Lane outwide consistently. The pinched wingers also gives opponents plenty of space in between the lone striker and the pinched midfield. it is a gaping area of space that Amherst is happy to give teams but smart teams can take advantage of that space if you overlap your wingbacks because if say Tasker and Lane get into those holes from the lone striker to the pinched midfield they than can play wide to an overlapping wingback to create 2v1's on the flank areas and should be able to whip balls into the box with about 4-5 guys crashing. That being said I am guessing Tufts will rarely take the risk of having their wingbacks overlap in this match because they will be afraid to give up a quick counter to Amherst who is strong on the counter. However, if Tufts does not overlap than the space Amherst is giving you will not be taken advantage of and then it will end up being 5 v 9 going at Amherst defense and those are numbers that will not allow Tufts many chances. So the question ends up being does Shapiro take a chance(doubtful) or do they just hope an pray for a set piece goal or a Tasker cross to Braun's head. By now you know which way I think Tufts should go but I doubt they will. Still you have to take what your opponent gives you. If Amherst plays like they did Sunday against St.Joe's and Fikayo Ajayi plays the game of his life again plus German Giammattei plays like a stud again then I honestly think Amherst advances. Along with Lind and Cutler Coleman who I know will play very well in this game as long as Amherst CB's don't muck this game up and the GK White does not make any mistakes I will take Amherst in this game.
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 15, 2018, 05:56:43 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on November 15, 2018, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 04:49:29 PM
An interesting scenario is an even game that gets late, and whether the Falcons as heavy favorites will start to panic a little deep into a game or in OT. And in pressing for that winning goal do they take the risk of giving up a goal on the counter.
I just cannot imagine this team panicking. I was so impressed with their composure when they came back from 2-0 down to JHU, a solid team in its own right. When behind, even with the clock ticking down, they simply went about their methodical yet relentless attack until the Hopkins lead was wiped out.
I didn't say that such panic couldn't or wouldn't happen, just that I couldn't imagine it. My imagination must not be very good ;)
Disagree. I think any team can start to feel really uneasy in a NCAA one-off situation, especially a heavy favorite. Certainly Messiah more than most teams will have confidence that they can score/equalize and/or snag a late game winner, but when you get to the last 5-10 minutes or overtime when the next goal is most likely going to decide things, and when you are just as worried about the other team getting a late game winner while you're wanting a game winner I don't think there is any immunity to feeling pressure mount.
Well, Ommadawn, with that 24/1 karma ratio you must be doing something right! ;)
I am sorry Messiah has the absolute easiest road of anyone to the NCAA Final 4.....UR could give them a game but that is if they get by Eastern. UR is the type of team that could give Messiah a game but also lose to Eastern. Eastern is a nice story and all but they have exceeded all expectations and if you look at their schedule there are not to many great Wins except Willy P....I mean based on EB2319 theory on how to evaluate a team if you have not seen them play then Wesleyan(CT) is a better team than Eastern because Wheeler's bunch beat Eastern 1-0 in OT AND outshot them 14-9. Now Eastern is 17-2-2 and Wesleyan finished 4-11-0 but hey what do I know. I have never seen Eastern play so I have no idea what they do well and frankly what their weaknesses are but I would expect Messiah to beat them rather handily. So it is only Cortland St and UR that stand in Messiah's way and I am just not seeing it unless those games get moved to the turf which both teams are familiar with. The Amherst/Tufts/MSU pod is a battle as is Trinity/Chicago/Luther and Calvin/Kenyon/Case.
I agree that Rochester would have a puncher's chance against Messiah but could also lose to Eastern. While Messiah Nation would be happy with all the family love the Falcons will smoke Eastern. As a neutral I'm hoping for a Messiah-Rochester game, but who knows, maybe Cortland will actually turn up in a Sweet 16 tilt.
What kind of fan support will Amherst have at Tufts? I have no sense of how many Amherst alums (who would even care) live around the Boston area. It is a classic matchup pitting the two recent NESCAC heavyweights against each, and with both very determined and expecting to win. Tufts usually always shows up and is remarkably consistent but I wonder if they will be a little flat or overconfident this time.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:16:30 PM
I am sorry Messiah has the absolute easiest road of anyone to the NCAA Final 4.....UR could give them a game but that is if they get by Eastern. UR is the type of team that could give Messiah a game but also lose to Eastern. Eastern is a nice story and all but they have exceeded all expectations and if you look at their schedule there are not to many great Wins except Willy P....I mean based on EB2319 theory on how to evaluate a team if you have not seen them play then Wesleyan(CT) is a better team than Eastern because Wheeler's bunch beat Eastern 1-0 in OT AND outshot them 14-9. Now Eastern is 17-2-2 and Wesleyan finished 4-11-0 but hey what do I know. I have never seen Eastern play so I have no idea what they do well and frankly what their weaknesses are but I would expect Messiah to beat them rather handily. So it is only Cortland St and UR that stand in Messiah's way and I am just not seeing it unless those games get moved to the turf which both teams are familiar with. The Amherst/Tufts/MSU pod is a battle as is Trinity/Chicago/Luther and Calvin/Kenyon/Case.
I think you need to get out of New England more. Hopkins and Cortland could both beat Amherst or Tufts. Not saying they would beat them easily but both e capable. Messiah beat MSU 5-1 earlier this year so including them as a tough out with Tufts and Amherst makes no sense. I watched Eastern and they were better than I expected. Knocking off F&M is not easy. By no means does Messiah have a cakewalk to final 4. They had toughest second round game imo. Calvin won't have a tough game until elite 8.
Given we got about 1/2 foot of snow topped with a layer of sleet and now it's turning to rain that's supposed to last through much of the night, I'd say the Messiah Sectional is gonna be on the lacrosse team's turf field just like last year.
Both Cortland and Rochester have a size and physicality advantage on Messiah, and in theory the smaller field helps them press that advantage as they have less ground to cover to track Messiah's pace and movement. But, Messiah usually adapts very well to turf going back to the 2002 Final Four on St. Lawrence's field hockey turf when, with their short, controlled passing game, they looked the least effected of the four teams by the conditions and playing surface. Last year Messiah played some of their best attacking soccer of the whole year during Sectionals on the turf.
The other thing is, Messiah is known for their possession game, but their goals in recent years have come increasingly from quick (direct?) attacks, not patient build-up, where they get the ball down field in two or three passes before defenses can get numbers back to crowd the box. In general, the more passes Messiah strings together on a given possession, the less likely they are to score (not that all that possession is without value--it tires the opponent physically and mentally and you can't concede a goal if your opponent doesn't have the ball). The smaller turf field and faster playing surface actually facilitates their quick-strike attack as was seen this weekend last year and it had West, Colby Thomas, et. al. brimming with confidence heading into the Final Four.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 15, 2018, 02:24:26 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 15, 2018, 11:26:50 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
BTW, I'm not sure I've ever seen a UR fan post on this board.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 14, 2018, 09:27:39 PM
Come on Rochester fans! Come out of the shadows and make yourselves known.
Well, I did go to grad school at the U of R, so while they're not my primary rooting interest, I would like for them to do well. Does that count?
Sadly, that does not count, as you only like them and they are not a primary rooting interest. You are not a true-blue homer for the Yellowjackets. I am not a true fan either, as I confess to never once going to a UR game during my daughter's four years on River Campus. But at least you did get a great education.
We would be more likely to get U of R fans posting on this board if there were more U of R fans, period. And there would be more U of R fans if the U of R would stop charging to watch the webcasts of their games. Does anyone else still do this? A decade ago, when my cousin was playing for UMass, I paid a monthly fee to watch UMass athletic events, but that model seems to have passed on everywhere--except Rochester.
I wouldn't think that making it harder for potential recruits to watch their games does any favors for their recruiting, either.
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2018, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:16:30 PM
I am sorry Messiah has the absolute easiest road of anyone to the NCAA Final 4.....UR could give them a game but that is if they get by Eastern. UR is the type of team that could give Messiah a game but also lose to Eastern. Eastern is a nice story and all but they have exceeded all expectations and if you look at their schedule there are not to many great Wins except Willy P....I mean based on EB2319 theory on how to evaluate a team if you have not seen them play then Wesleyan(CT) is a better team than Eastern because Wheeler's bunch beat Eastern 1-0 in OT AND outshot them 14-9. Now Eastern is 17-2-2 and Wesleyan finished 4-11-0 but hey what do I know. I have never seen Eastern play so I have no idea what they do well and frankly what their weaknesses are but I would expect Messiah to beat them rather handily. So it is only Cortland St and UR that stand in Messiah's way and I am just not seeing it unless those games get moved to the turf which both teams are familiar with. The Amherst/Tufts/MSU pod is a battle as is Trinity/Chicago/Luther and Calvin/Kenyon/Case.
I think you need to get out of New England more. Hopkins and Cortland could both beat Amherst or Tufts. Not saying they would beat them easily but both e capable. Messiah beat MSU 5-1 earlier this year so including them as a tough out with Tufts and Amherst makes no sense. I watched Eastern and they were better than I expected. Knocking off F&M is not easy. By no means does Messiah have a cakewalk to final 4. They had toughest second round game imo. Calvin won't have a tough game until elite 8.
Really...I would be willing to bet serious money I have seen more teams across D3 this season than yourself so do not tell me to get out of New England...I never said anything about Cortland OR Hopkins or anything related to Tufts and Amherst....I was unaware Hopkins was still in your sectional coming up.....How many times has ur ass seen Cortland play this season? Probably once against Messiah....You "Falcoln fans" love to over hype your opponents in the Tournament because god forbid your road to the Final 4 is assumed to be almost unworthy...It is almost like the more you write it the more you think we will buy it...Doubtful....IT IS THE EASIEST PATH.....-k for arrogance.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
Tufts v Amherst---------I have written about these teams all year so there really is not much else to say at this point.
...followed by 755 words about Tufts vs. Amherst. :o ;D
Quote from: Buck O. on November 15, 2018, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
Tufts v Amherst---------I have written about these teams all year so there really is not much else to say at this point.
...followed by 755 words about Tufts vs. Amherst. :o ;D
Ur a pain in the ass as well....-k for being an annoyance
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 15, 2018, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
Tufts v Amherst---------I have written about these teams all year so there really is not much else to say at this point.
...followed by 755 words about Tufts vs. Amherst. :o ;D
Ur a pain in the ass as well....-k for being an annoyance
I enjoy reading your analysis, and I honestly have no idea how you're able to keep all of these details about all of these players straight. But that's about the reaction I thought I might get. Somehow, I'll soldier on.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2018, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:16:30 PM
I am sorry Messiah has the absolute easiest road of anyone to the NCAA Final 4.....UR could give them a game but that is if they get by Eastern. UR is the type of team that could give Messiah a game but also lose to Eastern. Eastern is a nice story and all but they have exceeded all expectations and if you look at their schedule there are not to many great Wins except Willy P....I mean based on EB2319 theory on how to evaluate a team if you have not seen them play then Wesleyan(CT) is a better team than Eastern because Wheeler's bunch beat Eastern 1-0 in OT AND outshot them 14-9. Now Eastern is 17-2-2 and Wesleyan finished 4-11-0 but hey what do I know. I have never seen Eastern play so I have no idea what they do well and frankly what their weaknesses are but I would expect Messiah to beat them rather handily. So it is only Cortland St and UR that stand in Messiah's way and I am just not seeing it unless those games get moved to the turf which both teams are familiar with. The Amherst/Tufts/MSU pod is a battle as is Trinity/Chicago/Luther and Calvin/Kenyon/Case.
I think you need to get out of New England more. Hopkins and Cortland could both beat Amherst or Tufts. Not saying they would beat them easily but both e capable. Messiah beat MSU 5-1 earlier this year so including them as a tough out with Tufts and Amherst makes no sense. I watched Eastern and they were better than I expected. Knocking off F&M is not easy. By no means does Messiah have a cakewalk to final 4. They had toughest second round game imo. Calvin won't have a tough game until elite 8.
Really...I would be willing to bet serious money I have seen more teams across D3 this season than yourself so do not tell me to get out of New England...I never said anything about Cortland OR Hopkins or anything related to Tufts and Amherst....I was unaware Hopkins was still in your sectional coming up.....How many times has ur ass seen Cortland play this season? Probably once against Messiah....You "Falcoln fans" love to over hype your opponents in the Tournament because god forbid your road to the Final 4 is assumed to be almost unworthy...It is almost like the more you write it the more you think we will buy it...Doubtful....IT IS THE EASIEST PATH.
Humble
and endearing. You really
are the complete package!
Quote....-k for arrogance.
Ohh the irony! Though it might explain the -130 k.
You're not still smarting from Williams being sent packing by a mediocre PA school, are you?!?
And funny how yet again one post by one Messiah fan becomes "Falcon fan
s".
Hey, I have thoughts on the Messiah Sectional, but I'm not sure if I should risk sharing them. I mean, if I say Messiah is going to cruise to the Final Four, I (and maybe all Falcon Fans) might be judged to be arrogant. But if I say that Messiah was challenged by Hopkins and suggest that Cortland, Rochester and Eastern might present as much of a challenge to Messiah as the Ramapo/Montclair St winner will to Tufts or Amherst, well . . ., we already know what rudy and Falcon fans accused of.
OK, seriously now, I do think it's possible that Messiah gets through with relative ease, but I'm not counting on that. Each of the other teams have won a lot of games and beat some very good opponents and have their strengths. They play the games for a reason. Messiah has its weaknesses (lack of diverse reliable scoring threats comes to mind) and its hard for anyone to win at this stage if you have an off day. How their Sectional stacks up to the others, I don't know. Are Trinity/Luther/St. Thomas really any tougher a set of opponents than Cortland/Rochester/Eastern? Not sure how to really assess that? I think Eastern's lack of pedigree and lack of experience at this level could make them the weakest of the bunch, but Luther's current squad has no more NCAA experience than Eastern. Luther are the best out of the North Region this year, but how does the North stack up with the Mid-Atlantic and East Regions? Trinity always is hard to gauge because of their geographic isolation and relatively weak schedule. And on and on.
I don't put too much stock in the NCAA Regional Rankings, but when looking at the Sweet 16, all teams are #1 or #2 in their regions except Kenyon (#4), Eastern (#5), and unranked PSU-Behrend. I think that's a fair rough assessment besides Kenyon who I think is on par with the #1's and #2's. So Messiah will need to beat the East #2 and #1. Or Eastern, who if they reach the Elite 8 match will have beaten the Mid-Atlantic #2 and East #1 to get there. I honestly don't think most Falcon fans are over-confident. We know the games aren't won on paper and that soccer is a fickle sport. But we do have plenty of reason to be confident and certainly can't complain about the teams we've been grouped with for Sectionals. It's far from a "group of death", but it's not a cakewalk either. I like Messiah's chances . . . a lot, but will be nervous until we have a 2-goal lead.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 07:19:00 PM
Quote from: rudy on November 15, 2018, 06:49:50 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:16:30 PM
I am sorry Messiah has the absolute easiest road of anyone to the NCAA Final 4.....UR could give them a game but that is if they get by Eastern. UR is the type of team that could give Messiah a game but also lose to Eastern. Eastern is a nice story and all but they have exceeded all expectations and if you look at their schedule there are not to many great Wins except Willy P....I mean based on EB2319 theory on how to evaluate a team if you have not seen them play then Wesleyan(CT) is a better team than Eastern because Wheeler's bunch beat Eastern 1-0 in OT AND outshot them 14-9. Now Eastern is 17-2-2 and Wesleyan finished 4-11-0 but hey what do I know. I have never seen Eastern play so I have no idea what they do well and frankly what their weaknesses are but I would expect Messiah to beat them rather handily. So it is only Cortland St and UR that stand in Messiah's way and I am just not seeing it unless those games get moved to the turf which both teams are familiar with. The Amherst/Tufts/MSU pod is a battle as is Trinity/Chicago/Luther and Calvin/Kenyon/Case.
I think you need to get out of New England more. Hopkins and Cortland could both beat Amherst or Tufts. Not saying they would beat them easily but both e capable. Messiah beat MSU 5-1 earlier this year so including them as a tough out with Tufts and Amherst makes no sense. I watched Eastern and they were better than I expected. Knocking off F&M is not easy. By no means does Messiah have a cakewalk to final 4. They had toughest second round game imo. Calvin won't have a tough game until elite 8.
Really...I would be willing to bet serious money I have seen more teams across D3 this season than yourself so do not tell me to get out of New England...I never said anything about Cortland OR Hopkins or anything related to Tufts and Amherst....I was unaware Hopkins was still in your sectional coming up.....How many times has ur ass seen Cortland play this season? Probably once against Messiah....You "Falcoln fans" love to over hype your opponents in the Tournament because god forbid your road to the Final 4 is assumed to be almost unworthy...It is almost like the more you write it the more you think we will buy it...Doubtful....IT IS THE EASIEST PATH.....-k for arrogance.
Ha. Where is arrogance? You are the one claiming easiest path. I'm saying Messiah will have tough games..that is not arrogance. Arrogance is saying Messiah will easily win their group. -k for you. BTW games just got moved to Rochester so makes it more difficult.
Yes, the Sectional has been moved to Rochester due to the snow and freezing rain that's covering southcentral PA.
Saturday
Messiah vs. Cortland at 11:00 am
Rochester vs. Eastern at 1:30 pm
Sunday
Sectional Final at 1:00 pm
Wow I go out to dinner and missed all that. Deeeeeep breaths everyone...
(Not that I haven't been involved in my own squabbles on here, but sometimes it just takes someone outside of the situation saying it.)
Just took the train home which takes me right by Bello...nobody on the field but the lights were on and the snow was falling and it was illuminated by the lights. Pretty cool scene, but it'll all be gone by tomorrow methinks.
Does anybody know if Rochester streamed the first round game they hosted but didn't play in last weekend (St. Lawrence vs. Brockport St.)? If so, was there commentary? Just curious what to expect since I'm 90% sure I won't be making the trek up to Rochester for a variety of reasons. Really, really bummed about this.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 15, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Does anybody know if Rochester streamed the first round game they hosted but didn't play in last weekend (St. Lawrence vs. Brockport St.)? If so, was there commentary? Just curious what to expect since I'm 90% sure I won't be making the trek up to Rochester for a variety of reasons. Really, really bummed about this.
If they streamed any games, they have to stream all the games. Commentary is supposed to be the same: do for one; do for all. Rochester tends to be the type of department that will adhere to those rules.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 15, 2018, 10:42:31 PM
Does anybody know if Rochester streamed the first round game they hosted but didn't play in last weekend (St. Lawrence vs. Brockport St.)? If so, was there commentary? Just curious what to expect since I'm 90% sure I won't be making the trek up to Rochester for a variety of reasons. Really, really bummed about this.
Yes, they streamed all the games they hosted last week. They were having some technical issues before the first round games but hopefully they have that sorted out. Also, the commentary was cringe worthy
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 07:34:02 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 15, 2018, 07:20:08 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 15, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
Tufts v Amherst---------I have written about these teams all year so there really is not much else to say at this point.
...followed by 755 words about Tufts vs. Amherst. :o ;D
Ur a pain in the ass as well....-k for being an annoyance
You get a -k, you get a -k!
Oprah, eat a snickers.... (takes a bite, Mr.Right appears).
LGOTB....well played...and thoughtful.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 15, 2018, 09:12:21 PM
You're not still smarting from Williams being sent packing by a mediocre PA school, are you?!?
LoL YAS queen! Mr. Right needs to take off the NESCAC goggles. Good thing we used up all those Pool C's on NESCAC schools... Oh wait, how many made it to the round of 16? I'm so tired of NESCAC being referred to as elite and above everyone else, especially Mid-Atlantic schools like Eastern. If they don't win the game, it's because "they weren't playing well" or "they had an off day". It's never that they were beat by a better team. And of course NOW you are saying Messiah has the easiest route, after the fact of beating Hopkins... +k to rudy if I had them
I should have left the lull alone....and I probably shouldn't venture into writing out loud what I'm thinking but I'm not great at that kind of restraint (even though I've been working on it).
It's clear that the trigger was the "you ought to get out more" comment (no doubt intended more innocuously than it was taken but I admit I took it similarly) more so than disagreement about who has easier or easiest sectionals. And I can see why especially after some repetition of an opinion (i.e. easiest path) that feels like a slight to a particular fan group that someone (or more than one) from that fan group would take exception and/or counter. That all seems totally normal, and frankly I would have been surprised if there wasn't any pushback. I have no interest in wading into the easiest sectional debate, other than to say I think that the perceived distance between Messiah and its section-mates, virtually any year, impacts how hard of a draw we view them as having. Maybe less so this year (but only a smidgen less so), you could plug almost any threesome of teams in with Messiah and 90-95% of us folks who follow this stuff will predict Messiah advancing with little to no hesitation.
I think there is a much bigger dynamic at play which provides the context for and also the fuel for periodic irritations and annoyances, which, when voiced, of course leads to expressions of counter-irritations and/or robust defenses. And let me be clear that the dynamic isn't only applicable to Messiah but also to any perceived dynasty -- UCLA with John Wooden back in the day, the NE Patriots, Duke bball, Alabama football, etc, etc. What is a little different with Messiah, at least for those of us who lean far more secular -- and I don't want to go deep down that road -- is how the school's mission/orientation impacts (or doesn't at all) how Messiah fans approach following their team, expectations for their team, any presumptions about how most or every season should turn out, and whether there is any suggestion that the rest of us should feel worse for Messiah's boys when they falter, etc, etc. I could be wrong but there over the past handful of years have seemed to be fans of and slants towards a larger group of Christian-centered schools (and I know in part that's because several have very strong soccer traditions, but still....)
Among non-Messiah fans, I'm sure there is a range from rival fans who don't like 'em, to neutrals who don't think about Messiah at all to neutrals who appreciate the product on the field, to fans who actually like Messiah, like watching them play, and have a very respectful appreciation for the tradition and the young men who are and/or are becoming a part of that tradition. I generally consider myself to be in the latter category. Now, I'm not going to cheer for the Falcons to win yet another title, but I like the program in general, seriously appreciate the tradition and how good they are each year, and I am inclined to believe that the players truly are wonderful, genuine guys who will do good things in the world after graduation. The atmosphere at Messiah is like none other I've experienced (with OWU close behind) and I was blown away during my one evening at Shoemaker Field.
All that said, if I take what Messiah fans here post in aggregate....and I'm not going to get the words exactly right so don't focus too much on any single word...I (speaking only for myself) experience some entitlement, presumption, over-associative bias, and sort of a insular prism through which all things come back to Messiah. I'm going to try to keep this short instead of going into a whole dissertation....but other schools have great stories and families too...and it's sad when anyone's career ends with a loss (or at the very elite levels of D3 without a Final Four appearance or without a title)...but it's not tragic, and it's certainly not more tragic or more alarming when Messiah loses once in a while or has injuries or whatever...and other teams can have injuries and titles and whatever independent of Messiah or comparisons or switch of topics back to Messiah....Just as one very clear example, and I do genuinely appreciate the poster and enjoy reading his posts...but OWU can be cited as winning the 2011 title without an immediate morph into the play by play of Messiah's great goals against OWU in the first game of that season with a reminder that Messiah won the game. Listen, I have been plenty guilty of doing this exact thing -- taking a topic or event and linking in a connection or way to get a word in about my school -- but I have tried to be more mindful...and my school isn't Messiah, with that tradition or with anywhere near the vocal fan base on this site.
FWIW, IMO Messiah has had a tough draw and that continues. We know Cortland has had a fine year and at least on paper should provide some legit resistance. I know Rochester would show well, and perhaps the dynamics with Eastern would be just strange and homey enough to facilitate what would be viewed as a major upset. And then, assuming Messiah moves on, in theory Tufts could be waiting for in a national semi. I for one have wanted to see a Messiah-Tufts rematch...and I hope we do although I am less confident about Tufts getting out of this weekend despite my overall very high confidence about Tufts.
Not trying to be provocative....but rather attempting to give voice to something that always feels like it is in the air and difficult/awkward to mention or discuss.
Quote from: watchers on the ball on November 16, 2018, 12:14:36 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 15, 2018, 09:12:21 PM
You're not still smarting from Williams being sent packing by a mediocre PA school, are you?!?
LoL YAS queen! Mr. Right needs to take off the NESCAC goggles. Good thing we used up all those Pool C's on NESCAC schools... Oh wait, how many made it to the round of 16? I'm so tired of NESCAC being referred to as elite and above everyone else, especially Mid-Atlantic schools like Eastern. If they don't win the game, it's because "they weren't playing well" or "they had an off day". It's never that they were beat by a better team. And of course NOW you are saying Messiah has the easiest route, after the fact of beating Hopkins... +k to rudy if I had them
You quoted the single line in FW's otherwise very well done response that IMO easily could have been omitted.
There are a lot of things you can say about Mr.Right but saying he is a shill for NESCAC is not one of them. A big fan with a lot of knowledge, yes, but also brutally critical at times as well. And there are very few here, other than perhaps a FW, who knows more about D3 in general. You also appear not to have noticed that he has cheered and backed less known and less elite New England colleges on many an occasion.
+K for Climate Science as the East Sectional heads from the "frozen ..now soggy..tundra" of Shoemaker Field to the balmy shores of (ever warming) Lake Ontario. Thank goodness there were no flights involved. I have to wonder if a second year of November problems spells the beginning of the end of the wonderful grass on Shoemaker. I certainly hope not.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 16, 2018, 12:34:28 PM
Not trying to be provocative....but rather attempting to give voice to something that always feels like it is in the air and difficult/awkward to mention or discuss.
The whole response was very well written Paul, +k. I tend to agree with that one line being the trigger, although I think it was meant in jest and I have certainly said similar things, or at least things of similar nature. And while I'm not defending Right's -k comments, I will 100% go to bat for him in saying he is not a NESCAC shill and like Paul said also roots for many non-NESCAC New England teams (RWU, Gordon, Brandeis, Babson). He does not mince words but I think is generally fair.
Thanks PN...Glad there are still some that can be fair for both sides of the argument and that there are people who pay attention to posters full body of work.
Now that it has been concluded that Messiah has the toughest draw in the NCAA Sweet 16 and will be facing off against world-beaters Cortland St tomorrow afternoon it looks like Vegas has been influenced as well by Falcon Nation as they have Cortland as favorites in that game. Even though we have been told over and over throughout the season that Messiah fields about 6-7 D1 players in their starting lineup it will just not be enough against Cortland.
Ok.....back to reality...Has anyone seen this Penn State-Behrend team play? I am assuming tonight's match against Calvin will be a half-field scrimmage with PSU-Behrend having 10 players behind the ball? On second look though this team has not allowed a goal in the first 2 rounds and have managed 2 goals themselves in two 1-0 victories. I was surprised to see them shutout Lycoming and then John Carroll for the second time this season. They come from a historically weak league the AMCC and I would be guessing but I assume this is the farthest a team has gone coming out of this league. They also were pretty even in the SOG category against both teams. Wondering if they can give Calvin a fight because if they do not than Calvin will have a significant advantage over the winner of Kenyon/Case because they will be able to rest players.
I can read, so, yes, I have seen Mr. Right say nice things about other teams. However, I don't have time to read 6 paragraph wordy essays. I stand by the NESCAC bias.
P.S. Thanks for the two karma points, guys!!!
Quote from: watchers on the ball on November 16, 2018, 02:05:18 PM
I can read, so, yes, I have seen Mr. Right say nice things about other teams. However, I don't have time to read 6 paragraph wordy essays. I stand by the NESCAC bias.
P.S. Thanks for the two karma points, guys!!!
It is not my fault you have the attention span of a 5 year old so you are free to pass over my "wordy" essays. I take pride in my work and it is really not meant for everyone BUT that means you cannot just turnaround a blast my Nescac biases if you do not have the patience or intelligence to read my work. You should keep ur trap shut. Funny you bring up Eastern since they did lose to one of Nescac's worst teams Wesleyan 1-0...I should give you a -k for ignorance but I will give you a pass because your new.
Quote from: 2xfaux on November 16, 2018, 12:56:42 PM
+K for Climate Science as the East Sectional heads from the "frozen ..now soggy..tundra" of Shoemaker Field to the balmy shores of (ever warming) Lake Ontario. Thank goodness there were no flights involved. I have to wonder if a second year of November problems spells the beginning of the end of the wonderful grass on Shoemaker. I certainly hope not.
Since I am guessing the NCAA made this decision you have to believe the Messiah staff was going NUTS about it. Unless Messiah offered it up to the NCAA which I would highly doubt with a turf field available.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 16, 2018, 12:34:28 PM
All that said, if I take what Messiah fans here post in aggregate....and I'm not going to get the words exactly right so don't focus too much on any single word...I (speaking only for myself) experience some entitlement, presumption, over-associative bias, and sort of a insular prism through which all things come back to Messiah. I'm going to try to keep this short instead of going into a whole dissertation....but other schools have great stories and families too...and it's sad when anyone's career ends with a loss (or at the very elite levels of D3 without a Final Four appearance or without a title)...but it's not tragic, and it's certainly not more tragic or more alarming when Messiah loses once in a while or has injuries or whatever...and other teams can have injuries and titles and whatever independent of Messiah or comparisons or switch of topics back to Messiah....Just as one very clear example, and I do genuinely appreciate the poster and enjoy reading his posts...but OWU can be cited as winning the 2011 title without an immediate morph into the play by play of Messiah's great goals against OWU in the first game of that season with a reminder that Messiah won the game. Listen, I have been plenty guilty of doing this exact thing -- taking a topic or event and linking in a connection or way to get a word in about my school -- but I have tried to be more mindful...and my school isn't Messiah, with that tradition or with anywhere near the vocal fan base on this site.
Not trying to be provocative....but rather attempting to give voice to something that always feels like it is in the air and difficult/awkward to mention or discuss.
Your post strikes me as thoughtful and reasonable PaulNewman. As a fan of soccer in general (not just men's D3 college soccer), I have long admired Messiah's tradition of success on the national stage. I too am not particularly religious and thus I don't personally relate to institutions that have an overtly religious mission and value set. They are what they are, and that's completely fine.
That said, I personally experienced some of what you describe. My younger son's Bowdoin team went to the final four in San Antonio in 2010. That year both the Messiah men's and women's teams were in the final four, which is impressive in its own right. We sat at a large table with parents from a number of the schools at the pre-tournament banquet. We definitely picked up on a sense of entitlement from some of the Messiah parents. I have no idea whether that was attributable to the program's long history of success (heck, I'm a Patriots fan) or the religion-oriented culture of the school and the families of the student athletes...probably both....
Just an observation, not a judgment...
Mr. Right-- My apologies for any confusion, I was not referring to your writing. I was talking about Paul Newman's literal 6 paragraphs. I think you are an entertaining writer and enjoy the quips you share in your posts, as well as your inside scoop. +invisible karma
Watchers on the ball-------OK no worries...Thank you and I do appreciate your response....Very well I think we can all move on as I am ready to watch hopefully a couple solid matches and a great stream from Case...Also, I am sorry for getting snippy with you...Please tell us more about Eastern as I actually am curious if in fact that is the team you root for.
Quote from: watchers on the ball on November 16, 2018, 02:05:18 PM
I can read, so, yes, I have seen Mr. Right say nice things about other teams. However, I don't have time to read 6 paragraph wordy essays. I stand by the NESCAC bias.
P.S. Thanks for the two karma points, guys!!!
Lol. Your first post was before mine...now you're disowning what you wrote?
And you're too busy to read my wordy post? Then don't.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 01:55:54 PMNow that it has been concluded that Messiah has the toughest draw in the NCAA Sweet 16 and will be facing off against world-beaters Cortland St tomorrow afternoon it looks like Vegas has been influenced as well by Falcon Nation as they have Cortland as favorites in that game. Even though we have been told over and over throughout the season that Messiah fields about 6-7 D1 players in their starting lineup it will just not be enough against Cortland.
So glad you finally came around to seeing things our wa----ohh, but wait, no one called Cortland world-beaters, did they? No one said Cortland was the favorite, or did I miss something? I think someone thought you were too dismissive of the teams in Messiah's Sectionals. That's all.
I think Cortland may be a little overrated, but that's more a feeling than anything else. They couldn't protect 2-0 leads on three occasions this season and that isn't a good sign and probably what makes me doubt their credentials the most. They may have had the easiest opening weekend of the tournament, so there's not much to take away form their two wins to reach the Sweet 16.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 01:55:54 PMOk.....back to reality...Has anyone seen this Penn State-Behrend team play? I am assuming tonight's match against Calvin will be a half-field scrimmage with PSU-Behrend having 10 players behind the ball? On second look though this team has not allowed a goal in the first 2 rounds and have managed 2 goals themselves in two 1-0 victories. I was surprised to see them shutout Lycoming and then John Carroll for the second time this season. They come from a historically weak league the AMCC and I would be guessing but I assume this is the farthest a team has gone coming out of this league. They also were pretty even in the SOG category against both teams. Wondering if they can give Calvin a fight because if they do not than Calvin will have a significant advantage over the winner of Kenyon/Case because they will be able to rest players.
I tuned in for bits and pieces of their game against Lycoming. I did not see a team that was bunkering in. They seemed to be looking to attack, but they did have to absorb some sustained pressure from Lycoming at the end with Lyco fighting for their lives, but that is to be expected. Again, I didn't see long stretches of game. I did catch parts of their AMCC conference final, if I'm not mistaken, and in that game (obviously against a different level of competition) it was a pretty wide-open game with lots of end-to-end stuff. But that wouldn't necessarily be the approach they'd take when playing a equal or superior opponent.
Well Well Well, I think "Short-Tempered" Mr. Right just sits at home and adores the NESCAC without paying proper homage to the UAA. During this season, at one point, every UAA team was ranked in the top 25. "Truth-Tellin" Paul Newman seems to be the only one who does proper research on this forum. Regardless of the irrelevance of the NESCAC, looking forward to the matchups this weekend, gents. Geaux Tigers!
Quote from: JimLahey on November 16, 2018, 04:03:10 PM
Well Well Well, I think "Short-Tempered" Mr. Right just sits at home and adores the NESCAC without paying proper homage to the UAA. During this season, at one point, every UAA team was ranked in the top 25. "Truth-Tellin" Paul Newman seems to be the only one who does proper research on this forum. Regardless of the irrelevance of the NESCAC, looking forward to the matchups this weekend, gents. Geaux Tigers!
Ahoy fellow Deisian, I am not trying to be a Mr.Right apologist but I have to say he has definitely given plenty of homage to the UAA particularly last year when the conference had two teams in the Final 4. In fact, after initially being a skeptic he has become one of the biggest 'Deis boosters in the last few years (although both he and I were quite critical of them this year).
Quote from: JimLahey on November 16, 2018, 04:03:10 PM
Well Well Well, I think "Short-Tempered" Mr. Right just sits at home and adores the NESCAC without paying proper homage to the UAA. During this season, at one point, every UAA team was ranked in the top 25. "Truth-Tellin" Paul Newman seems to be the only one who does proper research on this forum. Regardless of the irrelevance of the NESCAC, looking forward to the matchups this weekend, gents. Geaux Tigers!
Irrelevance of NESCAC?? You might want to look at the list of National Champions the past 5 years... The UAA is a great conference, there is no denying that. However, you may want to have one of your teams win a National title or two in the current era before labeling another conference (with multiple National titles in the last 5 years) irrelevant.
Quote from: JimLahey on November 16, 2018, 04:03:10 PM
Well Well Well, I think "Short-Tempered" Mr. Right just sits at home and adores the NESCAC without paying proper homage to the UAA. During this season, at one point, every UAA team was ranked in the top 25. "Truth-Tellin" Paul Newman seems to be the only one who does proper research on this forum. Regardless of the irrelevance of the NESCAC, looking forward to the matchups this weekend, gents. Geaux Tigers!
You are not going to be able to reel me back in...I have said my piece and I actually do give the UAA plenty of credit for playing style over Nescac but since you do not fully read my posts ur ignorant comment and shot at me makes no sense since I have no clue who the hell u are. Maybe an attention grab for yourself? Possibly banging your head too many times on all those UAA Mens Soccer Championship trophies? Your use of gents is a Clear giveaway of where u are from so I will give u a pass as well. Maybe because I have said I was unimpressed with Case in attack as against Brandeis? Who knows but I am not going to respond to every nut that takes a swing...I am moving on now
Did the order of the games for Messiah moved to Rochester stay the same or change???
These Case announcers were doing the games last weekend and did a nice job. The girl is pretty knowledgeable and adds some nice insights.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 16, 2018, 04:59:25 PM
Did the order of the games for Messiah moved to Rochester stay the same or change???
Stayed the same.
Whooey...this one should be fun!
This chick is so impressive analyzing what Kenyon is doing...I love this....In 7 minutes she recognized Kenyon in a 4-4-2 with a diamond but pinching their midfielders all the while their strikers moving north to south.....Case in a 4-2-3-1 .....
Kenyon strikes first on a really nice run but Case defending was not good...Gotta step up and stick that kid...Also ball watching when the ball came across the box...
Big opening goal.....
Kenyon strikes first, the Lords cutting the Spartans open like butter down the right. Going down so early with the last matchup in mind (a 3-0 Case win) it will be interesting to see how Case reacts to this.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 05:16:48 PM
This chick is so impressive analyzing what Kenyon is doing...I love this....In 7 minutes she recognized Kenyon in a 4-4-2 with a diamond but pinching their midfielders all the while moving north to south.....
Yeah she is really on-point, analyzing the pros and cons of the 4-4-2 diamond. I myself have not heard this level of tactical analysis in D3 announcing as best as I can remember (I do not mean to disservice all the great commentators out there, but just impressed with her analysis).
Case is awfully lucky not to be down by a lot more than 1-0. Between the ball that was nearly poked in at the right post, the miss wide left on an open net, and the open header that went straight at the keeper, that's at least three near misses. And Case has had a couple decent chances as well. This game seems to have several more goals in it.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 16, 2018, 05:19:37 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 05:16:48 PM
This chick is so impressive analyzing what Kenyon is doing...I love this....In 7 minutes she recognized Kenyon in a 4-4-2 with a diamond but pinching their midfielders all the while moving north to south.....
Yeah she is really on-point, analyzing the pros and cons of the 4-4-2 diamond. I myself have not heard this level of tactical analysis in D3 announcing as best as I can remember (I do not mean to disservice all the great commentators out there, but just impressed with her analysis).
She just said she used to coach collegiately. It shows.
1-1, Case equalizes with 4 left in the half. Wonder how that will swing the momentum.
WOW...Case gets another one less than two minutes later...poor defending by Kenyon and nobody took responsibility and cleared the ball and Magruder finished. 2-1.
That was particularly cruel on Kenyon who had shaded the run of play in the opening half methinks.
Overtime for Kenyon and Case. Kenyon controlled most of the second half when I was watching, Case still had a couple of chances though. Could be a crazy turf bounce that decides this one
Just realized that I know David Anderson, the kid who scored the tying goal for Kenyon. They used to live in Belmont until six or seven years ago, when they moved to IL, and he used to play for the Bolts. My son was on one of the younger Bolts teams with his younger brother (who now plays for Wooster, IIRC).
Granted I've only seen about 30 minutes of this game, but Kenyon is not impressing me and I don't see how they'll score in OT.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 16, 2018, 04:59:25 PM
Did the order of the games for Messiah moved to Rochester stay the same or change???
Not sure if someone answered this but they remained the same.
Penalties in Cleveland.
Clinical kicks. Very impressed with both teams shots. Congrats to Case.
Have to say most of the penalties were very impressive. Even Anderson's that was saved looked decent, but the first three in particular were class I thought.
Tough way for the Lords to go out, but they made the most of their second life after being down to CMU in the final minute in the previous round.
Wow....my video was delayed and didn't even see PKs. Kenyon had a header in OT from like 3-4 yards out that I don't know how it didn't go in. Another stretch with several chances.
I thought it would be a 50/50 game and thought Kenyon would find a way, but end of 1st half was just a disaster. Case is very good and very dangerous, especially on those long set pieces. No complaints from me about Case moving on but heartbreaking. Sometimes just do not get some of the decisions.....4-5 starters on bench last 8+ minutes of regulation and even longer than that with top 2 forwards out for 30 minutes.
Very disappointing. Congrats to Case and will be cheering very hard for them from here.
Wow....Kenyon's season over....at 18-1-3.
Love watching Calvin play. So good technically and passing the ball quick on the turf.
Calvin smacks the bar from an indirect at the top of the six...backpass by the PSU defender and while at first it looked borderline between a clearance versus a backpass after a second look it did appear to be a backpass.
Great first-time strike by Olson, Calvin 1-0.
Wow! 1-1! PSU-Behrend!
Well then...PSU equalizes after a pretty nice spell.
Whooey...PSU with a great chance for 2-1 but it's put wide...and then Calvin takes it right down the field and scores. What a game!
Behrend almost goes in front 2-1, and then lightning quick off the goal kick Calvin comes down pass-pass-pass-shot-goal. 2-1 Calvin.
This game is not going as expected. Behrend getting more chances than I would have expected. Even the great Vegter lost the ball in his own box one time. And just like that it's 3-1 Calvin. Now this is the stuff that was expected. Going to be tough for Behrend, but they have shown more than expected already.
I was sad to learn about Kenyon, Paul. Very sad. I feel your pain. So close today, yet so far.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 16, 2018, 09:57:54 PM
This game is not going as expected. Behrend getting more chances than I would have expected. Even the great Vegter lost the ball in his own box one time. And just like that it's 3-1 Calvin. Now this is the stuff that was expected. Going to be tough for Behrend, but they have shown more than expected already.
Yeah it has been a very open game...Calvin definitely with the better of the play and deservedly in front but PSU's been in it.
Calvin finally getting their just deserts, and at 4-1 it's curtains on Behrend, but they showed some fight and made if extremely interesting for 70 minutes.
GO SPARTANS!!!!
Quote from: DagarmanSpartan on November 16, 2018, 10:12:25 PM
GO SPARTANS!!!!
DickermanSpartan You are one of the good ones in this forum.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 04:24:48 PM
Quote from: JimLahey on November 16, 2018, 04:03:10 PM
Well Well Well, I think "Short-Tempered" Mr. Right just sits at home and adores the NESCAC without paying proper homage to the UAA. During this season, at one point, every UAA team was ranked in the top 25. "Truth-Tellin" Paul Newman seems to be the only one who does proper research on this forum. Regardless of the irrelevance of the NESCAC, looking forward to the matchups this weekend, gents. Geaux Tigers!
You are not going to be able to reel me back in...I have said my piece and I actually do give the UAA plenty of credit for playing style over Nescac but since you do not fully read my posts ur ignorant comment and shot at me makes no sense since I have no clue who the hell u are. Maybe an attention grab for yourself? Possibly banging your head too many times on all those UAA Mens Soccer Championship trophies? Your use of gents is a Clear giveaway of where u are from so I will give u a pass as well. Maybe because I have said I was unimpressed with Case in attack as against Brandeis? Who knows but I am not going to respond to every nut that takes a swing...I am moving on n
First of all Mr. Right I am a member of the International Association of Trailer Parks, Trailer Park Supervisors & Assistant Trailer Park Supervisors so I know what I'm talking about. I will admit its been a pleasure listening to your uneducated takes all season long, but It's about time that we start getting people on this forum who actually know what they're talking about. Second of all, who is the judge of good soccer, all I know is that Case is in the Elite 8 despite getting little to no appreciation from you and your Masshole ignorance. I'm looking forward to seeing new programs evolve and break barriers, barriers that you personally have never been able surpass as an idiot.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 05:16:48 PM
This chick is so impressive analyzing what Kenyon is doing...I love this....In 7 minutes she recognized Kenyon in a 4-4-2 with a diamond but pinching their midfielders all the while their strikers moving north to south.....Case in a 4-2-3-1 .....
Kenyon strikes first on a really nice run but Case defending was not good...Gotta step up and stick that kid...Also ball watching when the ball came across the box...
Big opening goal.....
It is 2018 sir, please do not assume the broadcasters gender.
And the Case defenders did screw up. Should not let one player dice them like that.
Quote from: JimLahey on November 16, 2018, 10:44:05 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 16, 2018, 04:24:48 PM
Quote from: JimLahey on November 16, 2018, 04:03:10 PM
Well Well Well, I think "Short-Tempered" Mr. Right just sits at home and adores the NESCAC without paying proper homage to the UAA. During this season, at one point, every UAA team was ranked in the top 25. "Truth-Tellin" Paul Newman seems to be the only one who does proper research on this forum. Regardless of the irrelevance of the NESCAC, looking forward to the matchups this weekend, gents. Geaux Tigers!
You are not going to be able to reel me back in...I have said my piece and I actually do give the UAA plenty of credit for playing style over Nescac but since you do not fully read my posts ur ignorant comment and shot at me makes no sense since I have no clue who the hell u are. Maybe an attention grab for yourself? Possibly banging your head too many times on all those UAA Mens Soccer Championship trophies? Your use of gents is a Clear giveaway of where u are from so I will give u a pass as well. Maybe because I have said I was unimpressed with Case in attack as against Brandeis? Who knows but I am not going to respond to every nut that takes a swing...I am moving on n
First of all Mr. Right I am a member of the International Association of Trailer Parks, Trailer Park Supervisors & Assistant Trailer Park Supervisors so I know what I'm talking about. I will admit its been a pleasure listening to your uneducated takes all season long, but It's about time that we start getting people on this forum who actually know what they're talking about. Second of all, who is the judge of good soccer, all I know is that Case is in the Elite 8 despite getting little to no appreciation from you and your Masshole ignorance. I'm looking forward to seeing new programs evolve and break barriers, barriers that you personally have never been able surpass as an idiot.
Heading to the airport and I read this...WOW.....Well you communicated your trademark vitriol for D3boards. Congratulations..I am not going to respond the way I want because I am not going to get kicked off this site. Obviously, you have just finished the long Trump tour in the midwest and now have nothing better to do. You are a stain on the Brandeis community and more importantly in society itself. You are a blip in the big picture but more disappointing is people have actually given you karma points for that rant. Maybe I am over critical and maybe I have overstayed my welcome but I will decide that, not you and your ignorant rant.
Stay warm all you D-III soccer fans. Gonna be a chilly one out there. Looks like Medford , MA (Tufts) is gonna be the warmest Sectional with temps in the low 40's followed by Cleveland, OH (Case Western) with temps maybe reaching 40 and Rochester just tick behind. Chicago looks to be the worst with temps in the mid-30's , feeling like high 20's with the humidity (have fun Trinity fans!). But no sub-freezing temps anywhere.
My kids are playing ball in the back yard so I don't know why they had to move the games from PA to Rochester!!! Otherwise I'd be out there freezing my buns instead of camped out on the couch in my pajamas.
I'm heading to Kean University to watch NJ state championships today. High 40s so it won't be too bad. I'm sure I'll be checking the conversations here from my phone.
So Messiah is missing starters CB Cooper Robbins and CM Samuel Ruiz-Plaza due to injury. Even with their depth, the Falcons will miss those players and it cuts into their depth.
So three of the four Sectionals are being played on American football fields. Ugghh! Horrible aesthetic for the beautiful game.
Messiah not looking sharp in the early going. Way more unforced errors/give-aways/errant passes than usual. Cortland had had a lot of possession. The Falcons need to keep Cortland off the scoreboard until they can find their rhythm.
Unsurprisingly, Tufts maintaining a good amount of possession and generating chances on the ground. Also unsurprisingly, Amherst playing dump and run and hardly maintaining any possession. All soccer purists out there should be rooting for Tufts.
As an aside, I did not realize Tufts has only 4 seniors...wow
It's a shame that Giammattei plays at Amherst. He is a VERY skilled player who would absolutely thrive in a possession based system. I would guess that playing in the Amherst dump and run system causes him frustration.
Looked away and missed Cortland's goal with 15 minutes left in the half. Apparently a well worked goal converted by Cortland's leading scorer. Messiah not looking good. May be missing Samuel Ruiz Plaza more than expected. Who knows how different things would be if Nick West's shot off the post 6 minutes in would have gone in.
The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship.
Having played at Messiah in a playoff game, I can attest to the fact thet there is indeed a 12th man factor for the Falcons when they are at home.
Cortland and Rochester know they can beat Messiah or any other team in the country...
Still loads of time left and you cannot write off a champion, but having to travel to Rochester might prove telling.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 11:36:50 AM
Looked away and missed Cortland's goal with 15 minutes left in the half. Apparently a well worked goal converted by Cortland's leading scorer. Messiah not looking good. May be missing Samuel Ruiz Plaza more than expected. Who knows how different things would be if Nick West's shot off the post 6 minutes in would have gone in.
He's the point guard as well as the main helper on defense. You can't just move an outside defender into his spot and expect a similar result the first game. The losses of those two high level starters is very big, as I tried to emphasize going into this game.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 11:36:50 AM
Looked away and missed Cortland's goal with 15 minutes left in the half. Apparently a well worked goal converted by Cortland's leading scorer. Messiah not looking good. May be missing Samuel Ruiz Plaza more than expected. Who knows how different things would be if Nick West's shot off the post 6 minutes in would have gone in.
No excuses but injuries not helping . Turf field also not our best surface. Cortland as I said before has great team speed and pressuring the wings as soon as they get it. Need to figure things out second half and get even soon.
Cortland 1, Messiah 0 at halftime. Not a good display at all from the Falcons. Regularly struggled to pass out of the back and advance the ball to midfield. I think Ruiz Plaza would have helped a lot with that.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 12:00:56 PM
Cortland 1, Messiah 0 at halftime. Not a good display at all from the Falcons. Regularly struggled to pass out of the back and advance the ball to midfield. I think Ruiz Plaza would have helped a lot with that.
Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament--and now he's not in the tournament. As I said the other day, this isn't the same team that ran the table in the conference.
We get it Messiah fans: you have the toughest road to the final 4, your best players are injured, the weather has cost you a home game, and playing on turf hurts you. All teams have to play with some level of adversity.
Cortland playing deeper and seemingly content to sit in their defensive half and let Messiah possess the ball more. The extra possession will please Messiah, but they'd rather a team stretched than sitting compact. Messiah isn't at their best breaking down a team putting so many men behind the ball. Messiah is looking better and starting get some better looks and shots.
Nick West scores for Messiah. 1-1.
Nick West again! 2-1 Messiah. Top left corner with pace from distance. Top shelf free kick to give him a nation-leading 28 goals on the season.
In the North it is "Go West Young Man".
After the equalizer, Cortland came out of their defensive shell. But that only helps Messiah.
Horrible defending by Amherst's Shahmirzadi. 2-0 Tufts and this one appears to be over. The better team won today.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
We get it Messiah fans: you have the toughest road to the final 4, your best players are injured, the weather has cost you a home game, and playing on turf hurts you. All teams have to play with some level of adversity.
Sheesh! You clearly do not get it.
No Falcon fan has claimed we have the toughest road to the Final Four. I personally don't think any sectional is significantly tougher or easier than the others.
No one has claimed all our best players are out injured--Nick West is playing, Luke Groothoff is playing, etc., etc. Talking about the affect of players missing due to injury is a natural thing to do. It's not making excuses to discuss the reasons for a team to be underperforming as Messiah clearly was in the first half and suggest that the absence of a player as central to what Messiah does as is the case with Ruiz Plaza might be a significant contributing factor.
No Falcon fan has lodged a complaint about the change of venue (OK, I did because it meant I couldn't be at the game).
I personally don't think turf hurts us as much as some other fans because I've seen us play awfully well on turf including in last year's Sectional. And I'm not convinced our problems today were due to the turf.
PK for Messiah. Nick West converts for the hat trick. Messiah up 3-1 with under 5 to play.
Cortland State responds with a goal of their own. This will make for an interesting final 3 1/2 minutes. And Cortland works for another shot that goes wide.
It makes you wonder why Cortland ever bunkered down in the second half when then led 1-0. It let Messiah back in the game. Cortland can be very dangerous, but waited to test Messiah again until after they lost the lead.
Nervy finish for the Falcons as Cortland pressed for the equalizer, but the Falcons see it out. FINAL: MESSIAH 3, CORTLAND 2
Went to Tufts-Amherst, where there was a raucous crowd, mostly Tufts fans.
This was much the reverse of the September game where Tufts dominated for 60 minutes and then had to hang on. This time Tufts shaded the first half without really creating any dangerous chances — Weatherbie coming forward was probably their most dangerous attackinrg threat.
Second half, all Tufts. First goal was a banger from Rojas after some buildup and then the frosh Seigelstein converted a rebound for the second. Third goal was reserve Glover sticking with the play and GK White couldn't hold it allowing Glover to walk it in. All told a dominating last 30 from Tufts, who was the worthy winner.
Still licking my wounds today, despite the ever so genuine words of condolence...."so close but yet so far"....Really?
Did Cortland have any injuries? What was over the top was not that Messiah was missing a key to their attack or their most skillful player....its that he has to be the most skillful player in the country. Even if he is (how could we determine that?) there's no need for that there. I haven't watched a minute of any of these games today, but is there any chance that Cortland was just outplaying them for a few minutes? Messiah's safely into the Elite 8....no worries.
One step closer to a Messiah-Tufts blockbuster.
JimLahey is a troll....just look at what he (she?) did with his first post. Should have been shut down right then and there.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
We get it Messiah fans: you have the toughest road to the final 4, your best players are injured, the weather has cost you a home game, and playing on turf hurts you. All teams have to play with some level of adversity.
Sheesh! You clearly do not get it.
No Falcon fan has claimed we have the toughest road to the Final Four. I personally don't think any sectional is significantly tougher or easier than the others.
No one has claimed all our best players are out injured--Nick West is playing, Luke Groothoff is playing, etc., etc. Talking about the affect of players missing due to injury is a natural thing to do. It's not making excuses to discuss the reasons for a team to be underperforming as Messiah clearly was in the first half and suggest that the absence of a player as central to what Messiah does as is the case with Ruiz Plaza might be a significant contributing factor.
No Falcon fan has lodged a complaint about the change of venue (OK, I did because it meant I couldn't be at the game).
I personally don't think turf hurts us as much as some other fans because I've seen us play awfully well on turf including in last year's Sectional. And I'm not convinced our problems today were due to the turf.
"It might indeed be the case that Messiah will have the toughest road to the Final Four, as has been suggested." - Falconer
"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament--and now he's not in the tournament." - Falconer
"The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship." - Not from a Messiah fan, but adding to the echo chamber.
"Turf field also not our best surface." - Rudy
YOU clearly don't get it hahahhahaha.
I love watching Messiah. They are one of my top 3 favorite teams. Great coach and great players. As far as you fans though...
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2018, 01:17:37 PM
Went to Tufts-Amherst, where there was a raucous crowd, mostly Tufts fans.
This was much the reverse of the September game where Tufts dominated for 60 minutes and then had to hang on. This time Tufts shaded the first half without really creating any dangerous chances — Weatherbie coming forward was probably their most dangerous attackinrg threat.
Second half, all Tufts. First goal was a banger from Rojas after some buildup and then the frosh Seigelstein converted a rebound for the second. Third goal was reserve Glover sticking with the play and GK White couldn't hold it allowing Glover to walk it in. All told a dominating last 30 from Tufts, who was the worthy winner.
Bloots, wish I could have made it! How was Serpone?
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 17, 2018, 01:58:51 PM
Bloots, wish I could have made it! How was Serpone?
Honestly didn't notice, but I can't imagine great. ;)
Lopez did as Lopez does, Chicago leads 1-0 with 15 left.
Chicago gets another five minutes later, 2-0. Again, it's Lopez.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
We get it Messiah fans: you have the toughest road to the final 4, your best players are injured, the weather has cost you a home game, and playing on turf hurts you. All teams have to play with some level of adversity.
Sheesh! You clearly do not get it.
No Falcon fan has claimed we have the toughest road to the Final Four. I personally don't think any sectional is significantly tougher or easier than the others.
No one has claimed all our best players are out injured--Nick West is playing, Luke Groothoff is playing, etc., etc. Talking about the affect of players missing due to injury is a natural thing to do. It's not making excuses to discuss the reasons for a team to be underperforming as Messiah clearly was in the first half and suggest that the absence of a player as central to what Messiah does as is the case with Ruiz Plaza might be a significant contributing factor.
No Falcon fan has lodged a complaint about the change of venue (OK, I did because it meant I couldn't be at the game).
I personally don't think turf hurts us as much as some other fans because I've seen us play awfully well on turf including in last year's Sectional. And I'm not convinced our problems today were due to the turf.
"It might indeed be the case that Messiah will have the toughest road to the Final Four, as has been suggested." - Falconer
"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament--and now he's not in the tournament." - Falconer
"The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship." - Not from a Messiah fan, but adding to the echo chamber.
"Turf field also not our best surface." - Rudy
YOU clearly don't get it hahahhahaha.
I love watching Messiah. They are one of my top 3 favorite teams. Great coach and great players. As far as you fans though...
I also said no excuses. Read my entire statement. Truth is they play on grass all year so yeah it effects them some. What are you Mr Rights brother.
2-0 final in Chicago in favor of the Maroons.
I stayed for the first half of the Montclair-Ramapo game after the first matchup. Ramapo actually looked the stronger of the two teams for the first 20 or so minutes. Montclair then started to get into the game and won what looked to be a very soft penalty with the MSU player going across the Ramapo player and falling down where it didn't really look like much (if any) contact. Then the Montlcair guy who won the penalty started doing a dance while he was still on the ground celebrating that he'd won the penalty. Not a great look. Heard that Ramapo actually came out the better in the second half. I saw Montclair's other two goals online: the first was the Ramapo defenders letting the ball bounce in the box and the second a breakaway -- and the third one was followed by some more bad sportsmanship as the goalscorer shoved the defender out of his way en route to celebrating. I am guessing there was some back and forth throughout but again not a great look, although I guess that's what happens when you put two NJAC teams with history this year on the field in a Sweet 16 game. All told it appeared to be a game that was closer than the scoreline indicated. Fala was pretty isolated up top but he did create some decent chances for himself. He is a heck of a player.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 17, 2018, 01:42:40 PMDid Cortland have any injuries?
The most notable absence for Cortland today was sophomore defender Brandon Gracias who started 8 games this season and only did not appear in 3 games prior to today: two in early September and in the 1st round, but did play against E-town in the 2nd round. Otherwise, every other player with 5 or more starts this year played today and all their other typical first players off the bench down the stretch played today. I can't speak with any certainty or knowledge about injuries for Cortland, but it doesn't appear that was an issue for them at all today.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 17, 2018, 01:42:40 PMbut is there any chance that Cortland was just outplaying them for a few minutes?
Sure, Cortland was playing better for much of the first half. Their pressure when Messiah tried to pass out of the back and denial of passing lanes to the flanks was effective for much of the opening stanza. Messiah wasn't accurate with their passes and while Messiah would have hoped that other players would have been able to fill Ruiz Plaza's role, it seemed to me that things were often breaking down where he would normally be pulling the strings. Would his presence have made the difference or would he have struggled as well? We can only speculate about that.
And in attack, Cortland attacked well at times and put Messiah under pressure a lot in the first half. Their goal, which I missed, was by all accounts (the Rochester commentators and Messiah fans I have spoken to) a very well-worked combination play to set up their leading scorer to notch his 19th of the season.
Then Cortland decided to set up very deep and conservatively early in the second half, content to absorb pressure and just clear balls to no one and invite Messiah to come at them again and again. That gradually gave the impetus over to Messiah who, with all that ball possession, finally started to find their rhythm that they never found in the 1st half. Messiah does struggle to break down and score on teams when they hunker down and crowd the defensive third, so there would have been more merit in doing what Cortland did if Messiah had been finding success and banging on the door with Cortland playing them straight up. But that wasn't the case. Not sure why Cortland messed with what was working for them. As a Messiah fan, I'll take it, but is was a head scratcher for me.
Maybe sooner or later Messiah would have figured it out today or maybe at some point Nick West would have had one of his POY moments even if Cortland hadn't changed tactics. We'll never know. Keeping Messiah, specifically Nick West, off the score sheet for 90 minutes is a tall order no matter what your approach is, but I think Cortland hurt there chances be stepping off the gas and just trying to defend their lead with so much time left on the clock and Messiah not looking very threatening.
Just curious if anyone can place this play and what happened. I assume it is a save near the end of the 2nd OT. See picture on Kenyon website with the recap.....ball looking like it is going to cross the line after what I presume was a header and CWRU's GK hand reaching out for it. I don't recall another corner after that, but not sure what happened or if that is where I thought Kenyon had ended it.
https://athletics.kenyon.edu/news/2018/11/16/mens-soccer-spartans-advance-by-lords-in-penalty-kicks.aspx
In the dark recesses of the internet I uncovered Kenyon's 85 seconds post-game press conference. Brown referred to difficult conditions. No idea what he was talking about. Any ideas? The weather? Wind that commentators never mentioned during the game? Field conditions? CWRU crowd support?
Calvin coach in his post-game said something about his team having to adjust to the football lines. Wondered if that was an indirect jab at Calvin not hosting. Calvin has played on that field before and also at JCU for 2 NCAA games last year which also has football lines.
I will be very interested to see what happens if Montclair pulls their antics versus Tufts. Do not think that will work with Tufts.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 04:58:59 PM
As a Messiah fan, I'll take it, but is was a head scratcher for me.
Sounds like a team not as confident as it should be in its own abilities. They perhaps felt that the best way to overcome the seemingly-impending Messiah offensive pressure onslaught -- particularly that which they create when they are down -- was to try to soak it up without realizing that Messiah was performing below its best. You could argue that by Cortland being 1-0 up it should have been obvious that Messiah wasn't at its best, but I think perhaps being in the game you may not be evaluating how the other team is "doing" as much as focusing on your own. All told, I would guess that they thought -- regardless of how Messiah was doing -- that Messiah is going to attack so they should retreat. Obviously, it did not work.
This is cute....clicked on a recap and got this...
PrestoSports has taken a 30 second timeout. Please use this chance to grab a cold beverage or a tasty snack. Your website will be back up in a moment.
I didn't suspect that Cortland had a bunch of injuries.
Here's the bottom line. Some of us, including NEsoccerfan, really like Messiah and enjoy how they play, how they carry themselves, etc, etc.
But are we supposed to feel bad for them too??? After 12 titles? When Messiah's second string 11 would be a top 15-20 team? When each week yet another player is declared the best at his position in the entire country? Even with injuries, did Messiah have a significant talent advantage or not? Considering that they are still putting generational all-time players out on the field one would think so.
And let me clarify. I DO feel bad for the individual players who are injured and unable to play. For all of them on all teams, especially star players in their senior years.
Simple question: Did anyone ask you to feel sorry for Messiah?
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
We get it Messiah fans: you have the toughest road to the final 4, your best players are injured, the weather has cost you a home game, and playing on turf hurts you. All teams have to play with some level of adversity.
Sheesh! You clearly do not get it.
No Falcon fan has claimed we have the toughest road to the Final Four. I personally don't think any sectional is significantly tougher or easier than the others.
No one has claimed all our best players are out injured--Nick West is playing, Luke Groothoff is playing, etc., etc. Talking about the affect of players missing due to injury is a natural thing to do. It's not making excuses to discuss the reasons for a team to be underperforming as Messiah clearly was in the first half and suggest that the absence of a player as central to what Messiah does as is the case with Ruiz Plaza might be a significant contributing factor.
No Falcon fan has lodged a complaint about the change of venue (OK, I did because it meant I couldn't be at the game).
I personally don't think turf hurts us as much as some other fans because I've seen us play awfully well on turf including in last year's Sectional. And I'm not convinced our problems today were due to the turf.
"It might indeed be the case that Messiah will have the toughest road to the Final Four, as has been suggested." - Falconer
"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament--and now he's not in the tournament." - Falconer
"The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship." - Not from a Messiah fan, but adding to the echo chamber.
"Turf field also not our best surface." - Rudy
YOU clearly don't get it hahahhahaha.
I love watching Messiah. They are one of my top 3 favorite teams. Great coach and great players. As far as you fans though...
OK, I'll bite. So let me get this straight.
"It
might indeed be the case that Messiah will have the toughest road to the Final Four"
= "we have the toughest road the the FInal Four"
"Ruiz Plaza
[singular] is the most skillful handler in the tournament--and now he's not in the tournament"
= "our best player
s [plural] are injured"
non-Messiah fan making speculative comment not previous voiced by anyone
= adding to the echo chamber
NEsoccerfan is correct, all teams have to play with some level of adversity. Is there some unwritten message board rule that I am unaware of that prohibits fans from mentioning the adversity their team is going to face and how that might affect their chances?
And what is a Messiah fan allowed to say about Cortland today that won't be cause for criticism? If a Messiah fan says that Cortland played well, outplaying the Falcons for stretches, he's just trying to build up Cortland to seem like world-beaters to make Messiah's eventual victory and advancement seem all the more impressive. Ohh the arrogance!!! But if a Messiah fan says that the Falcons were having an off-day and/or the injuries really affected them and/or ___fill-in the blank___, then he's not giving Cortland their due credit and doesn't think anyone can ever outplay Messiah. Ohh the arrogance!!!
It might help if we make some rules. Like . . . (1) You can only mention your team's injuries if your team is the underdog. (2) You can only mention the potential affect of the playing surface if your are not the top seed. And so on and so forth. Or, maybe it'd be easier to have just this one rule: If you are a Messiah fan, you are restricted to saying that Messiah gets dozens of great players who despite the talent advantage is just a good but not great team who gets preferential treatment and easy paths to the final and is immune to the affects of injuries and playing conditions.
OK . . . I'm having a little fun with this because of how ridiculous I find much of this to be--yes, I genuinely do not understand what is so unacceptable about most of the things that you guys are reacting to. But, whatever. It just seems like maybe we could all afford to cut each other a lot more slack and let fans be partisan (that is what a fan is, right?) and have their biased opinions and be cheerleaders and what not. And I think it'd be more helpful to be more direct with our reactions instead of generalizing and stereotyping. If you disagree with something I write or how I come across, then by all means direct your reaction to me not "Messiah fans". Don't blame all Messiah fans, 99.9% of whom have never once logged into this message board, for something I write on here--they don't deserve that and I'm quite willing to take sole ownership and responsibility for my own words. Just some suggestions for what they are worth.
Simple questions....so what do YOU think the pushback and what you seem to think are very unfair distortions and exaggerations are all about?
And why the need to defend and unravel the silliness of the criticism at every turn?
You are way overplaying the "Messiah fans are placed in impossible binds" deal.
The big guy Magruder held off the Calvin D and banged one top shelf. 1-0 Case.
Calvin gets one just before half on a PK, allegedly handball? 1-1.
Calvin takes the lead on a stunning goal, McCaw crosses from the left for Witte who chested the ball down for Olson to blooter on the half-volley top right for 2-1.
Calvin up 3-1 now after a shot by Albrecht from 25 yards. Thought the goalkeeper should have done better at his near post.
And Calvin is the first team in the Final 4...a potential semifinal with Messiah awaits.
Gosh...now I feel even sicker. What a waste.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2018, 08:54:01 PM
And Calvin is the first team in the Final 4...a potential semifinal with Messiah awaits.
Messiah? I thought Calvin played the winner of Chicago/Luther.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 17, 2018, 08:55:59 PM
Gosh...now I feel even sicker. What a waste.
Why? Those 2 Calvin goals in second half were top notch and their attacking talent is superb. Doubt Kenyon would have done better honestly.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 17, 2018, 08:54:01 PM
And Calvin is the first team in the Final 4...a potential semifinal with Messiah awaits.
If I'm reading the brackets correctly, Calvin will get the Chicago/Luther winner in the first semifinal and Messiah/Rochester is paired with Tufts/MSU in the second semifinal.
Here's the bracket: http://www.d3soccer.com/ncaatournament/2018/men/2018-mens-printable-bracket.pdf
Quote from: blue_jays on November 17, 2018, 08:59:26 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 17, 2018, 08:55:59 PM
Gosh...now I feel even sicker. What a waste.
Why? Those 2 Calvin goals in second half were top notch and their attacking talent is superb. Doubt Kenyon would have done better honestly.
Disagree....but we'll never know so it doesn't matter in the least. Pretty sure, though, that Calvin got what they wanted at each stage of the bracket. Case can feel great about getting to the Elite 8 for first time in program history. Kenyon would have felt just as bad losing in the Elite 8 as they did not advancing last night. But beyond my homerism, I really was hoping Case would get through (and I think they were good enough to get through and last night probably drained them a little).
Quote from: Bobcat1 on November 17, 2018, 08:58:36 PM
Messiah? I thought Calvin played the winner of Chicago/Luther.
Ah, yes...the commentator mistakenly said Messiah. I think I knew it would be Chicago or Luther but didn't bother question it upon hearing it at first.
It's predestined to be Calvin vs. Luther in the semis, right? ;D ::)
Quote from: calvin_grad on November 18, 2018, 07:37:20 AM
It's predestined to be Calvin vs. Luther in the semis, right? ;D ::)
Nice! that is one of my 95 theses :D
Quote from: rudy on November 17, 2018, 04:15:41 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 01:43:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 17, 2018, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 17, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
We get it Messiah fans: you have the toughest road to the final 4, your best players are injured, the weather has cost you a home game, and playing on turf hurts you. All teams have to play with some level of adversity.
Sheesh! You clearly do not get it.
No Falcon fan has claimed we have the toughest road to the Final Four. I personally don't think any sectional is significantly tougher or easier than the others.
No one has claimed all our best players are out injured--Nick West is playing, Luke Groothoff is playing, etc., etc. Talking about the affect of players missing due to injury is a natural thing to do. It's not making excuses to discuss the reasons for a team to be underperforming as Messiah clearly was in the first half and suggest that the absence of a player as central to what Messiah does as is the case with Ruiz Plaza might be a significant contributing factor.
No Falcon fan has lodged a complaint about the change of venue (OK, I did because it meant I couldn't be at the game).
I personally don't think turf hurts us as much as some other fans because I've seen us play awfully well on turf including in last year's Sectional. And I'm not convinced our problems today were due to the turf.
"It might indeed be the case that Messiah will have the toughest road to the Final Four, as has been suggested." - Falconer
"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament--and now he's not in the tournament." - Falconer
"The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship." - Not from a Messiah fan, but adding to the echo chamber.
"Turf field also not our best surface." - Rudy
YOU clearly don't get it hahahhahaha.
I love watching Messiah. They are one of my top 3 favorite teams. Great coach and great players. As far as you fans though...
I also said no excuses. Read my entire statement. Truth is they play on grass all year so yeah it effects them some. What are you Mr Rights brother.
Saying no excuses and then following it up with an excuse is the same as saying no offense and then following it up with an offensive statement - it renders your prefacing statement moot.
Nothing I said was inflammatory, and I'm not even arguing any of the above quotes. My only point was the echo chamber of excuses/complaints was starting to get quite redundant - that's all.
Back to back years with 3 UAA teams in the elite 8 - quite impressive IMO. Let's see if they can repeat with 2 in the final 4. If Chicago or Rochester can win it all, id argue the UAA is the top conference over the last two years.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 09:24:31 AM
Saying no excuses and then following it up with an excuse is the same as saying no offense and then following it up with an offensive statement - it renders your prefacing statement moot.
Nothing I said was inflammatory, and I'm not even arguing any of the above quotes. My only point was the echo chamber of excuses/complaints was starting to get quite redundant - that's all.
So what is permissible and what is off-limits in pre-game discussion and analysis? To me, it's completely natural to mention potential factors that could influence how a game plays out. Countless TV and radio and podcast hours are spent every day on pre-game analysis breaking down and analyzing every conceivable angle from injuries, current form, home field advantage, team playing styles and how they match-up, player match-ups, grass vs. turf, outdoor vs. dome, weather, turn-around time from previous game and distance traveled, re-matches, etc., etc., etc. Mentioning that so-and-so was not cleared from concussion protocol and will not be unavailable is interesting to know and interesting to speculate how impactful the loss may be and what adjustments to the line-up the coach might make beyond a straight substitution. Discussing how defensive-minded Team A, whose home field is on the narrow side, might perform on max. width field is interesting. Mentioning weather and field conditions and discussing how that might have different effects on different playing styles and how each team might deal with any adverse conditions seems to be valid and interesting discussion points to me. And on and on. We don't have full-blown media coverage by neutral analysts and talking head to do all this pre-game analysis for us, and most of us do not know enough about the other teams out there to speak intelligently about their injuries, key players, playing style, etc., so we are left with fans (yes, partisans who sometimes have biases and blinders) bringing to the table what they know about their team. Engaging in the discussion of any of these and the countless other pre-game topics is not necessarily "making excuses" or complaining. At least I didn't think it was.
And as far as it becoming an echo chamber (and there are other echo chamber on this message board), once one fan of Team X mentions something are all other fans of Team X prohibited from chiming in with their take on the same issue lest it start feeling like an echo chamber?
What you guys are wanting does not seem fair or reasonable to me. That's all.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 10:14:10 AM
Back to back years with 3 UAA teams in the elite 8 - quite impressive IMO. Let's see if they can repeat with 2 in the final 4. If Chicago or Rochester can win it all, id argue the UAA is the top conference over the last two years.
Yes the UAA has really turned around their tournament record which was pretty dismal until a few years ago. It has certainly made the D-III landscape more diverse and interesting with more and different teams that are capable making that deep run towards the Final Four. What a season for Case Western. Bianco did a great job with them this year. And Chicago is Chicago. Quite a team. Quite a set of players. Possibly the best team over the last three years but without a title . . . yet. We'll see if they can go out with the big one this year.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 11:14:29 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 09:24:31 AM
Saying no excuses and then following it up with an excuse is the same as saying no offense and then following it up with an offensive statement - it renders your prefacing statement moot.
Nothing I said was inflammatory, and I'm not even arguing any of the above quotes. My only point was the echo chamber of excuses/complaints was starting to get quite redundant - that's all.
So what is permissible and what is off-limits in pre-game discussion and analysis? To me, it's completely natural to mention potential factors that could influence how a game plays out. Countless TV and radio and podcast hours are spent every day on pre-game analysis breaking down and analyzing every conceivable angle from injuries, current form, home field advantage, team playing styles and how they match-up, player match-ups, grass vs. turf, outdoor vs. dome, weather, turn-around time from previous game and distance traveled, re-matches, etc., etc., etc. Mentioning that so-and-so was not cleared from concussion protocol and will not be unavailable is interesting to know and interesting to speculate how impactful the loss may be and what adjustments to the line-up the coach might make beyond a straight substitution. Discussing how defensive-minded Team A, whose home field is on the narrow side, might perform on max. width field is interesting. Mentioning weather and field conditions and discussing how that might have different effects on different playing styles and how each team might deal with any adverse conditions seems to be valid and interesting discussion points to me. And on and on. We don't have full-blown media coverage by neutral analysts and talking head to do all this pre-game analysis for us, and most of us do not know enough about the other teams out there to speak intelligently about their injuries, key players, playing style, etc., so we are left with fans (yes, partisans who sometimes have biases and blinders) bringing to the table what they know about their team. Engaging in the discussion of any of these and the countless other pre-game topics is not necessarily "making excuses" or complaining. At least I didn't think it was.
And as far as it becoming an echo chamber (and there are other echo chamber on this message board), once one fan of Team X mentions something are all other fans of Team X prohibited from chiming in with their take on the same issue lest it start feeling like an echo chamber?
What you guys are wanting does not seem fair or reasonable to me. That's all.
I understand your points, and I don't disagree. I'm not the referee on what is or is not permissible, nor do I purport to be. Anyone on here is free to say what they want, and that includes me. My initial comment was not prescriptive or a directive. It was a mental observation sprinkled with some hyperbole and sarcasm, that I chose to share on the thread. To me, it was starting to sound like you three/four were preparing excuses /justifications in the event of a loss v. Cortland. Even as a Messiah supporter myself, I found that to be vexatious. Had I known it would have offended you guys to the point I'd receive negative karma, I would have kept my thoughts to myself. Good luck against Rochester today (no sarcasm that time).
Tufts up 4-0 on MSU at half. Wow!!
Rochester 1, Messiah 0 at halftime.
The play-by-play guy made one comment/observation which deserves repeating. Messiah is winning the possession battle, but Rochester isn't giving them any good looks, and Messiah is a team that doesn't shoot unless the have a good look. He captured it nicely. And that doesn't just apply to today.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 11:59:34 AM
I understand your points, and I don't disagree. I'm not the referee on what is or is not permissible, nor do I purport to be. Anyone on here is free to say what they want, and that includes me. My initial comment was not prescriptive or a directive. It was a mental observation sprinkled with some hyperbole and sarcasm, that I chose to share on the thread. To me, it was starting to sound like you three/four were preparing excuses /justifications in the event of a loss v. Cortland. Even as a Messiah supporter myself, I found that to be vexatious. Had I known it would have offended you guys to the point I'd receive negative karma, I would have kept my thoughts to myself. Good luck against Rochester today (no sarcasm that time).
Fair enough, NEsoccerfan. I'm not sure what I personally posted that would have been interpreted as preparing excuses, but OK. "Vexatious" . . . learned a new word; thank you (vocabulary was never my strong suite). I was not personally offended by any specific criticism/reaction but the repeated broad brushing of "Messiah fans" does get under my skin for whatever reason . . . ohh, yeah, because I am a Messiah fan! I've been posting on this and the previous D-III soccer message board since 2001 and anyone who has known me for a good length of time will know that I want to see these message boards have more posters, to have more teams and regions represented, to have more exchange of information, opinions, and viewpoints. I want people to feel welcome to express themselves and go from lurker to active participant. Sure, people should also feel free to disagree with opposing opinions, but disagreeing with another's opinion is different from criticizing that opinion or that person. It just felt like the implication or suggestion was that some of the opinions and viewpoints expressed, particularly by "Messiah fans" in this instance, shouldn't have been expressed (e.g. every team faces adversity, so why are you Messiah fans pointing out that some of your players are out injured). And it felt like there was a rush to judge others' motivations (e.g. you say your sectional is tough just to exaggerate your team's greatness when they advance, you mention injured players so you have an excuse when they lose). I say "it felt like . . ." because I don't know the reasons or motives for the reactions and criticisms that I took exception to, but they were the type of reactions that just don't seem to me to create a welcoming and inviting climate for the free exchange of information and opinions. The purpose of this latest silly and annoying and probably ineffective long-winded crusade of mine full of hyperbole/sarcasm is to ask everyone to consider what we can do to encourage rather than discourage more participation and more exchange of information and opinions, even if it means giving a pass sometimes to a partisan fan preparing his excuses. Grading people's opinions, motives, and contributions doesn't seem conducive to creating the climate we should want. That's my 92 cents on the matter and will be my last word on the matter for this year . . . I promise.
Messiah equalizes early in 2nd half, just before I could get back into the living room, so I have no idea about the goal besides that it was Nick West (surprise, surprise).
1-1 still with 27 minutes remaining.
For Messiah it was nice to see Joe King back from injury and getting playing time today for the first time in over a month. The sophomore outside back was a very nice addition to the starting lineup to start the season, especially given Shay Quintin missed most of September due to injury. Hopefully he gets to play in a couple more games yet this season.
Not really that surprised by the Tufts-MSU game after having watched the Messiah-MSU game earlier this year. I'm surprised Tufts put 4 up so quickly (their finishing is on today, that's for sure), but besides that . . .
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
Rochester wins 2-1. Congrats to them. They played with the confidence and discipline you'd expect from their UAA pedigree. They limited Messiah's good looks and grabbed two goals. Messiah certainly wasn't at their best this weekend and I'll leave it to others to decide how much of that is down to their opponents quality versus themselves. There are probably some other fair observations and laments and what-if's from the Messiah point of view, but it is what it is. Rochester took care of business, Messiah did not.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound. Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away. Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:40:30 PM
Not really that surprised by the Tufts-MSU game after having watched the Messiah-MSU game earlier this year. I'm surprised Tufts put 4 up so quickly (their finishing is on today, that's for sure), but besides that . . .
Agreed. Tufts out shot MSU 16-4 in the first half. For an elite 8 match-up, that is quite remarkable.
Tufts-Montclair notes:
- When Montclair kicked off I was standing at the Tufts attacking end. I noted that they were playing three at the back. I guess I knew that that was their typical scheme, but it did surprise me a little bit. When you play three at the back you have to have wingbacks who are either sitting deep or have the athleticism to get up and down the sides to keep your team from being exposed to a counter. Montclair did not have either of those. Their first half performance was apalling, demonstrating a complete lack of focus defensively and completely unbecoming of a team in Elite 8 game. They had to have known how dangerous Tufts' front five are but Tufts scored three goals in transition.
- The first goal, Montclair was completely flat footed. If I remember correctly it was the three on two and I think Rojas had the initial possession which Braun finished off.
- Second goal, more of the same. This time the keeper got a had to Tasker's shot, but couldn't keep it out.
- Third goal, van Brewer with a nice finish. Again, Montclair caught open at the back.
- Fourth goal was Enge finishing a rebound.
- Defensively, the hosts did not have much to do. I will say that Mieth did not look super confident on a couple of high balls, but handled them well enough.
- Paoletta is a stud. I don't think he is Vegter level yet but I was very impressed with his athleticism and composure. When the game was still scoreless, there was a bouncing ball and a few Montclair player standing around it, probably about 30 yards from goal. Paoletta threw himself into the crowd and emerged with the ball, kicking it away.
- I was impressed with Tufts' mentality and focus. There was a short spell at the beginning of the second half when already winning by four goals, the hosts took their foot off the gas a little bit. Shapiro and a few of his players made it clear that this was not acceptable and they regained control.
- I think Lopez is a better striker than Braun, and Calvin's attack is very impressive, but based on the last two days I would take Tufts' front five over both and Rochester (assuming Chicago wins).
My sense of Montclair State is that in some ways they are fast-track bullies. They can completely demolish inferior opponents (see their 8-0, 8-0, 7-0, 8-1 wins), but against other top sides, they do not have the defensive organization and discipline needed and despite some quality in attack it's usually not going to produce enough against the better defenses.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
Messiah was the superior team from my observation. But think you are right about their reliance on West. Offensive strategy seemed to be get him the ball in the middle and let him go one on one. When that wasn't working they didn't seem to have a plan B.
I forced myself to get to the Tufts match....wanted to go up to some Tufts alums (Majumder, Halliday, Conor Coleman, etc) and ask (jokingly) if they wanted to do a live interview for D3soccer.com, especially when I knew I had blooter right there with me. I did meet blooter for first time in person. Got the lowdown on those Iceland trips.
Tufts was super-impressive. They shell-shocked Montclair in the first 10 minutes, not giving MSU time to even get into the game or even start some good complaining. Don't know if it was because so far behind or because it was Tufts or some of both, but I didn't see MSU try the kind of jawing and physical play we've seen in other games. MSU was thoroughly outclassed. Tufts for one thing is much bigger than MSU. Tasker is quite a player and much stronger and more physical than I remembered for a smaller guy. Tufts is very skilled, very big, and can be very physical when needed. Very organized and very deep. I have a hard time picturing them losing unless via PKs.
Mixed feelings about the Messiah result which I didn't see at all. On the one hand, very happy for a team like Rochester to break through for a Final Four....but on the other we yet again are denied a Tufts-Messiah match on a big stage. I honestly think that would be a 50/50 game (with Messiah at or near full strength) and where Tufts would probably find a way. Would also have been interesting to see what Shapiro would do (or not do) to deal with West.
Many many coaches are relieved they do not have to plan for West anymore.
Kid is a beast.
I saw some of the game yesterday where he had a hattrick and was quite quite impressed.
3 very different goals which I think showed off his versality as a player.
Hats off to Messiah.
You have to stop them in the Quarter Finals or before.
This team does not lose in the final four.
It says something about the program that an elite 8 exit feels like a failed season.
Bottom line: Tufts outscored their opponents 7-0 this weekend. They have not allowed a goal in nearly a month and are a very worthy representative of the NESCAC in the Final Four. Best wishes to the Jumbos in Greensboro!
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 17, 2018, 11:54:01 AM
The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship.
Having played at Messiah in a playoff game, I can attest to the fact thet there is indeed a 12th man factor for the Falcons when they are at home.
Cortland and Rochester know they can beat Messiah or any other team in the country...
Still loads of time left and you cannot write off a champion, but having to travel to Rochester might prove telling.
Not to be a Soccerdamus on this one, but as soon as I heard the venue was changed I thought that they would have issues this weekend.
A team like Messiah has a formula that has worked for almost two decades...
Host until the final four and take care of business once there.
PA is a fortress to these guys.
The program is much more than the players and coaches, it is the Alums and the fans, these guys get a big boost playing infront of a home crowd and more importantly, it can intimidate players nd teams who are not supremely confident in themselves.
Again, congrats to the Falcons, there is also next year.
They will have to replace a few studs, but again, they have been doing this for a couple decades just fine.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 18, 2018, 04:35:31 PM
I forced myself to get to the Tufts match....wanted to go up to some Tufts alums (Majumder, Halliday, Conor Coleman, etc) and ask (jokingly) if they wanted to do a live interview for D3soccer.com, especially when I knew I had blooter right there with me. I did meet blooter for first time in person. Got the lowdown on those Iceland trips.
Tufts was super-impressive. They shell-shocked Montclair in the first 10 minutes, not giving MSU time to even get into the game or even start some good complaining. Don't know if it was because so far behind or because it was Tufts or some of both, but I didn't see MSU try the kind of jawing and physical play we've seen in other games. MSU was thoroughly outclassed. Tufts for one thing is much bigger than MSU. Tasker is quite a player and much stronger and more physical than I remembered for a smaller guy. Tufts is very skilled, very big, and can be very physical when needed. Very organized and very deep. I have a hard time picturing them losing unless via PKs.
Mixed feelings about the Messiah result which I didn't see at all. On the one hand, very happy for a team like Rochester to break through for a Final Four....but on the other we yet again are denied a Tufts-Messiah match on a big stage. I honestly think that would be a 50/50 game (with Messiah at or near full strength) and where Tufts would probably find a way. Would also have been interesting to see what Shapiro would do (or not do) to deal with West.
PN and I had a fun time, and for those who are wondering, there really is not too much to the trips other than — in addition to my well-documented and shameless avgeekery (http://speedbirdspotter.com/travel-reports) — me feeling like I'm beating the system by going to Europe for less than $300 round trip.
I particularly agree with the point about not being able to see Tufts lose other than a PK shootout. I've said this before but, last year, when Brandeis and Tufts met at this stage I was not confident at all of the Judges winning in regulation or overtime — I felt Tufts had a certain air of inevitability in terms of winning close games (as the Jumbos did in last year's regular season game). I did feel that if that game went to PKs that Brandeis would have a chance since I thought Woodhouse to be the superior keeper to Mieth (and one who saved 40% of penalties he faced) and Tufts had been through two shootouts in as many games. The only reason that game didn't go to penalties was a fluke goal with a minute left in the second OT. Anyway — fully recognizing I found a way to bring this back to my own team (my apologies) — the point is that a fluke event like that is not likely to happen again in the next two games and I don't see the Tufts defense being completely overwhelmed by another offense: the back line looked very solid and Najjar (whom I thought to be the most uncertain part of that back four) has looked more assured than I've seen before. Anyway, big task on Rochester's hands. That one will be a fun watch.
Chicago with an outstanding 29-5 shot advantage going into OT, with a handful cleared off the line. I'm getting some Northern Park Deja Vu...
Chicago wins it in OT...who else, Lopez...lol the announcer didn't know that the game is over.
I have heard announcers refer to corners as free kicks and offsides as fouls.
I think in a few years we will have more guys calling games wo grew up playing, or even better alumnis of the schools who know the players and programs.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 18, 2018, 04:35:31 PM
I forced myself to get to the Tufts match....wanted to go up to some Tufts alums (Majumder, Halliday, Conor Coleman, etc) and ask (jokingly) if they wanted to do a live interview for D3soccer.com, especially when I knew I had blooter right there with me. I did meet blooter for first time in person. Got the lowdown on those Iceland trips.
Tufts was super-impressive. They shell-shocked Montclair in the first 10 minutes, not giving MSU time to even get into the game or even start some good complaining. Don't know if it was because so far behind or because it was Tufts or some of both, but I didn't see MSU try the kind of jawing and physical play we've seen in other games. MSU was thoroughly outclassed. Tufts for one thing is much bigger than MSU. Tasker is quite a player and much stronger and more physical than I remembered for a smaller guy. Tufts is very skilled, very big, and can be very physical when needed. Very organized and very deep. I have a hard time picturing them losing unless via PKs.
Mixed feelings about the Messiah result which I didn't see at all. On the one hand, very happy for a team like Rochester to break through for a Final Four....but on the other we yet again are denied a Tufts-Messiah match on a big stage. I honestly think that would be a 50/50 game (with Messiah at or near full strength) and where Tufts would probably find a way. Would also have been interesting to see what Shapiro would do (or not do) to deal with West.
Well, you survived your trip to Tufts... that's good to hear! I agree about wanting to see a Tufts Messiah match! Anyway, again no repeat champion! Congrats to the remaining 4 teams!
UAA with back to back 3 teams in the elite 8 and 2 teams in the final 4. Quite impressive. Can one or both break through? Notwithstanding their great season, I don't like Rochester's odds of prevailing against Tufts. Chicago Calvin is going to be one hell of an offensive showdown. I can't wait. Torn on who to root for now that messiah is out. Underdog Rochester? Arguably the most talented Chicago? Perennial runner up calvin? Tufts winning their 3rd in 5 years?
Both Chicago and Calvin have superstar seniors that have been so close (e.g., vegter, witte, Lopez,
Koh, capotosto) but have yet to taste the glory. Reading those names out loud, I think it's arguable those are 5 of the top 10-20 players in the country. I think I'll be cheering for the winner of that game.
In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be
Quote from: blue_jays on November 18, 2018, 07:38:55 PM
In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be
BEAUTIFUL stuff. THIS is what soccer is meant to look like - the Messiah, Chicago, Calvin etc. brand. Not that long throw, dump and run nonsense.
Congratulations to Rochester on a well deserved trip to the Final Four. I would have chimed in earlier, but I spent most of the day on a long road trip, missed the game (I suppose that saved me some anxiety), and only now have a chance to extend my kudos.
I an strongly wishing for a Calvin-Rochester final, with the Knights taking home the trophy as a culmination of a series of terrific seasons without one.
Watched the replay of UR-Messiah -- ugh, the UR color commentator drove me nuts. Every time a goal was scored he would interrupt the play-by-play guy to get in a line. Other than that didn't speak much at all, leaving the PBP guy to do the color and PBP himself.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 08:11:17 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on November 18, 2018, 07:38:55 PM
In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be
BEAUTIFUL stuff. THIS is what soccer is meant to look like - the Messiah, Chicago, Calvin etc. brand. Not that long throw, dump and run nonsense.
If you watched Lopez on the stream, it was maybe the most nonchalant NCAA game-winner you'll ever see. Held up his arms for a few seconds and walked back calmly to his swarming teammates. He's one cool customer, never would have known it was probably the biggest goal of his career.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 10:14:10 AM
Back to back years with 3 UAA teams in the elite 8 - quite impressive IMO. Let's see if they can repeat with 2 in the final 4. If Chicago or Rochester can win it all, id argue the UAA is the top conference over the last two years.
This is always a fun debate. The UAA has without question had a very good run in recent years...3 teams in the elite 8 this year is impressive! I think this point has been raised before...but doesn't the UAA's geographical dispersion help its teams' chances of getting into and advancing through the NCAA tournament? One wonders if the NESCAC would advance more teams through the early rounds if they had schools in Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, NYC and upstate NY rather than beating on each other and the dozens of other D3 schools in New England...
Also, at the end of the day, it's about winning. The NESCAC has had four different schools win the tournament (Williams, Middlebury, Tufts and Amherst) and a fifth (Bowdoin) make the final four. If/when the UAA has several schools win the whole thing, then it's truly game on!
Quote from: truenorth on November 19, 2018, 08:23:28 AM
This is always a fun debate. The UAA has without question had a very good run in recent years...3 teams in the elite 8 this year is impressive! I think this point has been raised before...but doesn't the UAA's geographical dispersion help its teams' chances of getting into and advancing through the NCAA tournament? One wonders if the NESCAC would advance more teams through the early rounds if they had schools in Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, NYC and upstate NY rather than beating on each other and the dozens of other D3 schools in New England...
Also, at the end of the day, it's about winning. The NESCAC has had four different schools win the tournament (Williams, Middlebury, Tufts and Amherst) and a fifth (Bowdoin) make the final four. If/when the UAA has several schools win the whole thing, then it's truly game on!
As someone who thinks a UAA team needs to win a national title in the modern era before the conference can be considered on the same level as the NESCAC, I fully think the NESCAC still holds superior. However, I think there is an alternative viewpoint with regards to geography — that having all teams in a given conference in one part of the bracket (whether the same quadrant or same half) actually helps the chances of said conference having a team in the Final 4.
From a pure probability standpoint, if you give each team a 50% chance of winning each game, the chance that a given team wins all four NCAA games prior to the Final 4 is 6.25% (.50^4=.0625). If you have four teams in four different quadrants, each team's chances are 6.25%. However, if you have, say, four teams in the same quadrant, the probability that
one out of those four teams gets to the Final 4 is 25%.
I realize that this is far from perfect, and do not anticipate this would hold up in D3 Court (or NESCAC Court, presided by Justice Flounder ;)). Moreover, byes nonwithstanding, I can understand that NESCAC teams tend to "cannibalize" one another by being in the same part of the bracket. However, by looking at each region without considering the betting lines on a particular game, it could be argued that having all teams local improves the NESCAC's chances of having a representative in the Final 4.
Now, what is not arguable is that NESCAC teams have gotten it done in the Final 4, whereas UAA teams have not —although I think most of us can agree Chicago got robbed last year by a blown call. That — the UAA's record in Final 4 matches — is something that the conference will be hoping changes this year.
Quote from: truenorth on November 19, 2018, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 10:14:10 AM
Back to back years with 3 UAA teams in the elite 8 - quite impressive IMO. Let's see if they can repeat with 2 in the final 4. If Chicago or Rochester can win it all, id argue the UAA is the top conference over the last two years.
This is always a fun debate. The UAA has without question had a very good run in recent years...3 teams in the elite 8 this year is impressive! I think this point has been raised before...but doesn't the UAA's geographical dispersion help its teams' chances of getting into and advancing through the NCAA tournament? One wonders if the NESCAC would advance more teams through the early rounds if they had schools in Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, NYC and upstate NY rather than beating on each other and the dozens of other D3 schools in New England...
Also, at the end of the day, it's about winning. The NESCAC has had four different schools win the tournament (Williams, Middlebury, Tufts and Amherst) and a fifth (Bowdoin) make the final four. If/when the UAA has several schools win the whole thing, then it's truly game on!
If the question is which has been the top conference over the last two years, which is the way that NESoccerFan posed it, then I think it's obvious that it's the UAA, even if neither Chicago or Rochester wins the tournament. Over the last two years, the UAA has claimed seven Elite Eight spots out of a total of 16 available, and four Final Four spots out of a total of eight available. In contrast, the NESCAC has claimed only two Elite Eight spots and one Final Four spot.
In theory, it's possible that the NESCAC schools that are all assigned to the same regional could knock each other out, limiting the number of teams that cold advance (although I'll point out that this works the other way, too; if two teams from the same conference play, one won't advance, but one will, so with Tufts, Amherst and Midd all being assiged to the same half of the same regional, while only one of those teams could make the Elite Eight, there was an excellent chance that one of those teams would make the Elite Eight). But over the last two years, the only intra-NESCAC matchup was Tufts' win over Amherst on Sat., which matches the number of intra-UAA matchups over the last two years (Chicago having beaten Emory in a regional final last year).
Quote from: Buck O. on November 19, 2018, 09:33:28 AM
Quote from: truenorth on November 19, 2018, 08:23:28 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 10:14:10 AM
Back to back years with 3 UAA teams in the elite 8 - quite impressive IMO. Let's see if they can repeat with 2 in the final 4. If Chicago or Rochester can win it all, id argue the UAA is the top conference over the last two years.
This is always a fun debate. The UAA has without question had a very good run in recent years...3 teams in the elite 8 this year is impressive! I think this point has been raised before...but doesn't the UAA's geographical dispersion help its teams' chances of getting into and advancing through the NCAA tournament? One wonders if the NESCAC would advance more teams through the early rounds if they had schools in Chicago, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Atlanta, NYC and upstate NY rather than beating on each other and the dozens of other D3 schools in New England...
Also, at the end of the day, it's about winning. The NESCAC has had four different schools win the tournament (Williams, Middlebury, Tufts and Amherst) and a fifth (Bowdoin) make the final four. If/when the UAA has several schools win the whole thing, then it's truly game on!
If the question is which has been the top conference over the last two years, which is the way that NESoccerFan posed it, then I think it's obvious that it's the UAA, even if neither Chicago or Rochester wins the tournament. Over the last two years, the UAA has claimed seven Elite Eight spots out of a total of 16 available, and four Final Four spots out of a total of eight available. In contrast, the NESCAC has claimed only two Elite Eight spots and one Final Four spot.
In theory, it's possible that the NESCAC schools that are all assigned to the same regional could knock each other out, limiting the number of teams that cold advance (although I'll point out that this works the other way, too; if two teams from the same conference play, one won't advance, but one will, so with Tufts, Amherst and Midd all being assiged to the same half of the same regional, while only one of those teams could make the Elite Eight, there was an excellent chance that one of those teams would make the Elite Eight). But over the last two years, the only intra-NESCAC matchup was Tufts' win over Amherst on Sat., which matches the number of intra-UAA matchups over the last two years (Chicago having beaten Emory in a regional final last year).
Thanks, Buck.O, that was exactly my point!
I just wanted to circle back to a comment I made during the Messiah-Cortland game on Saturday, specifically this one:
"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament..."
Three things might help critics understand what was in my mind at that moment.
(1) I was talking (in my mind) mainly to other Falcon fans, though I was certainly aware of a larger audience. In context, FW and I (and probably some others who didn't speak up) were talking about the difficulties the Falcons were having moving the ball forward from the back--the mainstay of their offense. Did Cortland have something to do with this? Of course--my comment wasn't intended to imply any lack of intensity on their part. Remember, Messiah played Cortland on opening day, and on that day Cortland was no less aggressive defensively, but the Falcons still outshot them 19-11. IMO, at that moment on Saturday, the absence of Ruiz Plaza was making itself obvious (to me). Indeed, the first half shots were almost even (5-4 Messiah). I was reminding my fellow Falcon fans that you don't just take Ruiz Plaza out of the mix and expect the offense to work as well as it normally does--despite Cortland's intense pressure (see below).
(2) When I said, "Quite possibly, ...", I assumed folks would see both confidence and uncertainty in my mind. I basically meant, "I wouldn't be surprised if ..." And, I would say that also today. I wouldn't be surprised if Ruiz Plaza actually is the best handler in the tournament, but I could certainly be persuaded otherwise by seeing someone better. So far, I haven't. His effectiveness is especially evident in the face of high defensive pressure, such as Cortland was exhibiting. He is rarely fazed by that. Ruiz Plaza is rarely flashy, only occasionally quick, but almost always very reliable even under much pressure. Anyone can lose the ball, and he's no exception, but he's the guy you want to have the ball at his feet in such situations. It will then go where it's most effective for it to go.
(3) Finally, in terms of losing him rather than someone else for the second week of games, if someone had asked me beforehand which Falcon(s) would I be most concerned about losing for the tournament, here's my list of three, in order:
--West (duh)
--Ruiz Plaza
--Luke Groothoff
In other words, I'd rather have almost anyone else miss those games. Ruiz Plaza was the main driver of the Falcon offense this year, as he had been for each of the 3 previous seasons. He didn't start the first two games of his FR season (2015), but after the debacle at CMU he entered the starting lineup and stayed there, except for injuries, the rest of his career. In Falcon history, it's unusual for a FR to start most or all of a season, and exceptional to do so at the 6/8 position that runs the offense. I don't quite think his game was on the level of Brian Ramirez, and certainly not at the level of the great Hayden Woodworth (POY in 2002 and the main reason for winning the Final Four in 2000), but he's head and shoulders above most other occupants of that role in Falcon history. It will be awfully hard to replace him in 2019.
So, this is what I was getting at in my brief comment.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 08:11:17 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on November 18, 2018, 07:38:55 PM
In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be
BEAUTIFUL stuff. THIS is what soccer is meant to look like - the Messiah, Chicago, Calvin etc. brand. Not that long throw, dump and run nonsense.
NESoccerfan - do you want to expand on this? Are you implying Messiah, Calvin, and Chicago play a certain brand of soccer that Rochester or Tufts does not? I'm not sure who you are referring to with the long throw, dump and run comment (Amherst?). I have watched Chicago and Tufts play several times this year. They play a very similar brand of futbol. Not only can they knock it around, they can also play direct when the opportunity presents itself and can score off set pieces. I only watched Messiah play Lycoming in the conference final, so I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that one game. I know how good they are. I watched Calvin play all their tournament games and believe they knock it around at a level slightly above the group you mentioned. Just my two cents. At the end of the day, the championship trophy is not awarded for style points. I think any of the Final Four teams left are quite capable of winning the title.
Yes...I find the preoccupation with "beautiful futbol" in D3 soccer to be somewhat amusing. This is not La Liga, nor is it year around club soccer. This is D3 soccer...featuring good, hard working athletes who play a very short regular season leading in to a high pressure "one and done" NCAA tournament. The object is to win. If I were a coach, I'd be encouraging athleticism, fearlessness, winning the 50/50s and strong, high pressure defense from front to back. If you have the time to knock it around and effectively build up an attack...great...but you gotta do what you gotta do when faced with various circumstances in the moment. And you'd better be adaptable. It's about effectiveness and not aesthetics...
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound. Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away. Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx
The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).
Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box. Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.
I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play. I'm curious to hear what other people think.
Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.
Looks incidental to me. Played goalie nearly my entire career including through college and after ... and that's just two people going for the ball and it not played well by the keeper. I don't see it as a foul even when refs protect keepers.
Crazy goal to be sure. Seen it happen, but sucks every time.
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 18, 2018, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 17, 2018, 11:54:01 AM
The change of location may cost Messiah its 12th championship.
Having played at Messiah in a playoff game, I can attest to the fact thet there is indeed a 12th man factor for the Falcons when they are at home.
Cortland and Rochester know they can beat Messiah or any other team in the country...
Still loads of time left and you cannot write off a champion, but having to travel to Rochester might prove telling.
Not to be a Soccerdamus on this one, but as soon as I heard the venue was changed I thought that they would have issues this weekend.
A team like Messiah has a formula that has worked for almost two decades...
Host until the final four and take care of business once there.
PA is a fortress to these guys.
The program is much more than the players and coaches, it is the Alums and the fans, these guys get a big boost playing infront of a home crowd and more importantly, it can intimidate players nd teams who are not supremely confident in themselves.
History provides a counterpoint to your suggestion that being away from home reduced Messiah's probability of advancing. There's virtually no difference in Messiah's NCAA W-L-T record at home versus away from home in the Brandt/McCarty Era. And their loss to Rochester was the first time in the Brandt/McCarty era that the Falcons lost to a host team in an NCAA game.
Messiah in the NCAA Tournament1st Round to Quarterfinals (pre-Final Four)Brandt/McCarty Era (1997-2017): Home 33-4-1 (.882), Away/Neutral 19-1-3 (.891)
10 Titles in 14 Years (2000-2013): Home 25-1-0 (.962), Away/Neutral 17-1-3 (.881)
All Rounds including Final FourBrandt/McCarty Era (1997-2017): Home 33-5-1 (.859), Away/Neutral 41-2-3 (.924)
10 Titles in 14 Years (2000-2013): Home 25-2-0 (.926), Away/Neutral 37-2-3 (.917)
And Messiah has had just as many close games and close calls at home as away from home. 23% of home NCAA games have gone to OT from 1997 to 2017 versus 24% of neutral and away games. My guess is the number of games decided by a goal or less would also be very similar home or away.
The fans love having home games, of course. And the players probably prefer it because of having all their friends and the full crowd there to make it such a special atmosphere. But in terms of results, home or away doesn't matter much if at all. I think both Coach Brandt and Coach McCarty have mentioned that from a preparation standpoint, they prefer away games in the tournament because it allows for a more controlled environment with fewer distractions ahead of the games compared to when the players are on campus and sleeping in the dorms the night before.
Just want to give another shoutout to the color commentator on CWRU's broadcasts. She was fantastic both nights.
Quote from: Bobcat1 on November 19, 2018, 02:26:34 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 08:11:17 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on November 18, 2018, 07:38:55 PM
In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be
BEAUTIFUL stuff. THIS is what soccer is meant to look like - the Messiah, Chicago, Calvin etc. brand. Not that long throw, dump and run nonsense.
NESoccerfan - do you want to expand on this? Are you implying Messiah, Calvin, and Chicago play a certain brand of soccer that Rochester or Tufts does not? I'm not sure who you are referring to with the long throw, dump and run comment (Amherst?). I have watched Chicago and Tufts play several times this year. They play a very similar brand of futbol. Not only can they knock it around, they can also play direct when the opportunity presents itself and can score off set pieces. I only watched Messiah play Lycoming in the conference final, so I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that one game. I know how good they are. I watched Calvin play all their tournament games and believe they knock it around at a level slightly above the group you mentioned. Just my two cents. At the end of the day, the championship trophy is not awarded for style points. I think any of the Final Four teams left are quite capable of winning the title.
I don't know that I "want to", but I will anyways to clear the air :). I am not implying that Rochester or Tufts do not. My "etc." was intended to cover similar possession-branded teams. Chicago, Calvin, and Messiah were just the first 3 that popped into my head.
As far as Tufts, I completely agree with you. They play some beautiful soccer, and I've been continuously impressed by the ease/speed with which they get the ball from the outside defenders to the target forward (Braun's) feet. This allows them to play a lot of what my former club coach called "in-back-through", which are deadly at EVERY level of soccer. Perhaps why my subconscious didn't jump to Tufts while it did for the others, is that I still think of Tufts as a bigger/physical team, that can play a more direct style if the opponent or game flow dictates it. That, if anything, is a compliment to them and a testament to their versatility.
As far as Rochester, I've only seen them play once a year for the last few years, so it's not fair for me to make a judgment one way or the other. I will say that when I played against them annually a decade or so ago, Rochester's style was more direct than from what I've seen lately.
As far as dump and run, I was hoping to avoid calling out specific teams since that has gotten me into some long-winded discussions lately, but, yes, I was referring to Amherst (and a few others).
Quote from: truenorth on November 19, 2018, 03:25:59 PM
Yes...I find the preoccupation with "beautiful futbol" in D3 soccer to be somewhat amusing. This is not La Liga, nor is it year around club soccer. This is D3 soccer...featuring good, hard working athletes who play a very short regular season leading in to a high pressure "one and done" NCAA tournament. The object is to win. If I were a coach, I'd be encouraging athleticism, fearlessness, winning the 50/50s and strong, high pressure defense from front to back. If you have the time to knock it around and effectively build up an attack...great...but you gotta do what you gotta do when faced with various circumstances in the moment. And you'd better be adaptable. It's about effectiveness and not aesthetics...
I completely agree with you. The object is to win and it is absolutely possible to win the whole thing playing an ugly (in my personal opinion) brand of soccer (see national champ Amherst). My comment is just what I, and I think most soccer purists enjoy to watch from strictly an entertainment and love of the game perspective.
Quote from: Dave B on November 19, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound. Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away. Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx
The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).
Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box. Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.
I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play. I'm curious to hear what other people think.
Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.
Definitely not a foul on that challenge. The official isn't in the screen shot, but he was still at the top of the box, in a great position to see the play as it happened.
Quote from: Dave B on November 19, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound. Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away. Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx
The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).
Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box. Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.
I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play. I'm curious to hear what other people think.
Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.
Great find. Couple notes:
(1) The UR goalie is quite short (but see point 2 below).
(2) I'm not sure what was more impressive, the effort on the header by Nick West or the save by the aforementioned tiny UR goalie. Both were spectacular.
(3) The first goal by UR was absolute CLASS. That requires so much skill and a good dose of luck as well.
(4) The goal by Nick West was straight out of a karate movie. What a flexible/sneaky touch by him on that volley.
(5) I believe it was #10, not #17 on the botched clearance that lead to the game winning goal.
(6) You can't call the game winner a foul. It was a clean challenge.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 18, 2018, 08:45:46 PM
Watched the replay of UR-Messiah -- ugh, the UR color commentator drove me nuts. Every time a goal was scored he would interrupt the play-by-play guy to get in a line. Other than that didn't speak much at all, leaving the PBP guy to do the color and PBP himself.
I mostly follow the UAA, and I hear you that the commentary can at times be awkward. Its important to realize that at Rochester they are undergrad students, and often they work several sports and may not even have a soccer background. I've met a couple of them (just a passing conversation on their way to the press box) and i've come to realize that they are nice kids who are - if nothing else - sincere in their desire to do well. Like many of you i also watch a lot of the professional game and i realize i became used to the silky-smooth delivery and effortless insights of those pros (hello Arlo White), but it's just not realistic to carry those expectations here, no matter how similar the settings. I also console myself that it's gotten much better - a couple of years ago there was a young person who cataloged any foul given anywhere on the field as a "penalty kick". Different schools do it differently - Wash Univ. (at least last year) had a fantastic commentator, as did NYU this year; the Emory guy knew the game but couldn't mask his rooting interest; Chicago had two former players this season who were top shelf - informative with their perspective, even-handed with the criticism, enthusiastic fans of the game, just hands down the best. As "Saint of Old" observed earlier, i'm hoping that as time goes on we get treated to more commentary like Chicago had this year.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2018, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 19, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound. Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away. Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx
The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).
Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box. Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.
I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play. I'm curious to hear what other people think.
Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.
Great find. Couple notes:
(1) The UR goalie is quite short (but see point 2 below).
(2) I'm not sure what was more impressive, the effort on the header by Nick West or the save by the aforementioned tiny UR goalie. Both were spectacular.
(3) The first goal by UR was absolute CLASS. That requires so much skill and a good dose of luck as well.
(4) The goal by Nick West was straight out of a karate movie. What a flexible/sneaky touch by him on that volley.
(5) I believe it was #10, not #17 on the botched clearance that lead to the game winning goal.
(6) You can't call the game winner a foul. It was a clean challenge.
Totally agree on 1 - 5 (5 - that's what I get for not watching it full screen (or on a bigger screen) and my apologies to Mr. Fitz.)
6 - Maybe I wasn't clear, but I wasn't calling it a foul. I'm not trying to take anything away from Rochester at all. Just wasn't clear on the rule *on what was allowable contact) and wanted to see what people thought.
Quote from: Dave B on November 19, 2018, 05:39:25 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 19, 2018, 04:57:43 PM
Quote from: Dave B on November 19, 2018, 03:43:56 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 18, 2018, 03:00:28 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on November 18, 2018, 02:45:37 PM
Wow. Rochester go up 2-1 with under 8 to play when a Messiah player was unable to clear the ball before it broke the goal-line plane.
According to the stats, it was a cross that hit off the keeper for an own goal. I'm curious how that happened, as Messiah's keeper has been quite solid in the handful of games I've seen this year.
I really feel for Nick West after the spectacular season he had. The only consolation is that he has a title from last year. With his pace and aggression, I feel that he can compete at the next level and am hoping this isn't the end of his soccer career.
The video wasn't the best quality (at least for me) and I couldn't catch exactly what happened with the ball before it was surprisingly goal-bound. Before the whistle even blew, I kind of figured it had crossed the plane before being cleared away. Not the kind of goal you want to go out on, but the overall performance this weekend from the Falcons was not what it needed to be.
Nick West certainly did all he could this year to help Messiah be successful. But in my opinion they were too reliant on him--not intentionally per se. Lots of great players out there including a few at Chicago, etc., but West has to be a finalist for POY.
https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/11/18/mens-soccer-will-play-at-final-four-after-2-1-win-over-messiah.aspx
The Rochester website has a recap up that has video of the goal (starting at 1:49).
Micah Fitz (#17, for non-Messiah fans) tries to clear a crossed ball at the top of the box, but almost whiffs on it and it goes deeper into the box. Bell gets ready to catch it, but as he's jumping up, there is some contact with a Rochester player who had jumped slightly earlier and is now coming down. Didn't seem to be a whole lot of contact but it was enough to prevent Bell from catching it and it bounces off of his hands and across the line.
I don't really know if it was a foul or not and think that Bell could have gone up more aggressively, but I'm not sure about the rule about contact with the GK on that kind of play. I'm curious to hear what other people think.
Overall, a pretty bizarre way to give up the winning goal.
Great find. Couple notes:
(1) The UR goalie is quite short (but see point 2 below).
(2) I'm not sure what was more impressive, the effort on the header by Nick West or the save by the aforementioned tiny UR goalie. Both were spectacular.
(3) The first goal by UR was absolute CLASS. That requires so much skill and a good dose of luck as well.
(4) The goal by Nick West was straight out of a karate movie. What a flexible/sneaky touch by him on that volley.
(5) I believe it was #10, not #17 on the botched clearance that lead to the game winning goal.
(6) You can't call the game winner a foul. It was a clean challenge.
Totally agree on 1 - 5 (5 - that's what I get for not watching it full screen (or on a bigger screen) and my apologies to Mr. Fitz.)
6 - Maybe I wasn't clear, but I wasn't calling it a foul. I'm not trying to take anything away from Rochester at all. Just wasn't clear on the rule *on what was allowable contact) and wanted to see what people thought.
I should clarify when I said "you" I did not mean you. I meant a random person watching the video (in my opinion, which is fallible!).
Quote from: blue_jays on November 18, 2018, 07:38:55 PM
In real time, this goal was fast as hell. 3 one-touches and Lopez buried it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEh4CBLKoas&feature=youtu.be
Did anyone see the scuffle after the goal/celebrations? Multiple players from each team had to be separated by teammates, coaches, and refs. Curious if anyone was at the game or watched the stream and saw what happened or what started it?
HI all - i'm a noob here, but i've been reading the boards for a couple of seasons now, always interesting thoughts and perspectives. I'm a UofR fan, but I got inspired to post today to tip my hat to the players and fans of Messiah - your quality on the field is mirrored by your class and graciousness off of it.
A year ago our guys left your field in defeat, drained of energy but happy that they gave their best and satisfied with the fact that they played and lost a great game of soccer to a side that simply had a better game. And one year later fate brought both sides back together, with the location and result switched - the former due to the weather, the latter due to one side simply having a better game. With the stakes so high and the emotions and effort invested so big (a year of grueling preparation, and the final year for some), its easy to see how many times this scene elicits negative responses. And yet in that hard moment, the players again exchanged genuine respect and admiration. And in the stands one of your fans walked over to the Rochester parents to congratulate us on the win and wish us the best on the journey ahead. "It's not easy to beat us" he said, a simple truth that was said without boast, and that captured the moment and complimented both sides nicely. The game ideally brings out the best in us always - that's the big goal, and it's hard to get there, but your program clearly gets there a lot. And it also helps others to get there too.
Lastly, our team has a fantastic student photographer at the games, and she captured some nice shots of Messiah players - you can see and download them here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wH1DhzT0r7CaM-3BQ5-d3PtWfWFf_Ve2?usp=sharing
Her only request is that if you post it somewhere to just give her a photo credit - Kseniya Kalaur (Instagram KKseniyaa8)
Quote from: MaturinNYC on November 19, 2018, 11:28:50 PM
HI all - i'm a noob here, but i've been reading the boards for a couple of seasons now, always interesting thoughts and perspectives. I'm a UofR fan, but I got inspired to post today to tip my hat to the players and fans of Messiah - your quality on the field is mirrored by your class and graciousness off of it.
A year ago our guys left your field in defeat, drained of energy but happy that they gave their best and satisfied with the fact that they played and lost a great game of soccer to a side that simply had a better game. And one year later fate brought both sides back together, with the location and result switched - the former due to the weather, the latter due to one side simply having a better game. With the stakes so high and the emotions and effort invested so big (a year of grueling preparation, and the final year for some), its easy to see how many times this scene elicits negative responses. And yet in that hard moment, the players again exchanged genuine respect and admiration. And in the stands one of your fans walked over to the Rochester parents to congratulate us on the win and wish us the best on the journey ahead. "It's not easy to beat us" he said, a simple truth that was said without boast, and that captured the moment and complimented both sides nicely. The game ideally brings out the best in us always - that's the big goal, and it's hard to get there, but your program clearly gets there a lot. And it also helps others to get there too.
Lastly, our team has a fantastic student photographer at the games, and she captured some nice shots of Messiah players - you can see and download them here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1wH1DhzT0r7CaM-3BQ5-d3PtWfWFf_Ve2?usp=sharing
Her only request is that if you post it somewhere to just give her a photo credit - Kseniya Kalaur (Instagram KKseniyaa8)
Great story, and welcome to the boards. In reading the boards you may have noticed -- while I have always found Rochester to be a gritty and very tough opponent -- I have gone off on them a number of times due to my former perception of them being overrated by sneaking into the tournament with unspectacular records and then getting knocked out in the first two rounds. However, I gained a
lot of respect for them last year when they knocked off a trio of excellent opponents -- Conn. College, SUNY Oneonta, and Amherst -- en route to the Elite 8. That was really, really impressive, not just because they beat two NESCACs and a perennial SUNY contender, but because they had to rally in two of those three games and had to save a PK (having missed a PK earlier in that game) in the last minute. One solid tournament run is just that -- one season -- but it completely changed my perception of Rochester and proved that they can handle the pressure of the tournament (they did get to the Sweet 16 in 2013 as well IIRC), a perception that was reinforced by this year's results.
Moreover, what has impressed me about Rochester is their ability to sustain these results even without headliner talent. The last real superstar that I thought UR had was Alex Swanger — although Greblick and Ben Swanger did impress at times during their careers — so when UR graduated both of them in 2017 I did not see how they would improve on their previous season. Then after Rouin — who came out of nowhere to score 14 goals after scoring three in his first three seasons — graduated, I thought for sure UR would come back down to Earth with no proven goalscorer. However, Coach Apple has proven that the Rochester system can be sustained even without headliners, and I would add that I think Ikeda has done a fantastic job leading the Yellowjackets.
As for your earlier response to my comments on the commentary, point taken — I was more or less just agitated that the color guy just didn't do much talking except for taking the PBP's thunder on big plays. That being said, I certainly don't expect every student commentator (I was one, at one point, and I would cringe if forced to listen to my basketball commentary) to be a professional.
Good luck to the Yellowjackets -- a Final 4 appearance is a testament to the great work that Coach Apple and his players have done.
I was not able to catch any of the games this weekend but it seems we have a very entertaining and intriguing NCAA Final 4 next Friday morning. Since I have seen each Final 4 team play more than once this season I can predict both games will be very tight IMO. Tufts really surprised me by slamming Amherst 3-0 as Amherst had been playing very well the past few weeks. I was not surprised that Tufts smoked MSU because I had seen MSU's lack of team defending. MSU had the players to compete in that match especially in attack but their refusal to work and defend as a team meant they could only go so far riding the backs of their attackers. That is a situation where you have to question the Head Coach and his staff on their tactical ability or their ability to organize and get the most from their players. I fully expect UR to give Tufts the best game they have seen this year. UR is extremely organized defensively and is just as athletic as Tufts. UR has some gamers and that game will be as tight as a Snare Drum. I love the Frosh defender for UR who took a few weeks to get on the field but once he did he was a in mainstay. He is a tough athletic kid #27 Will Eisold who also by the looks of your pictures might have been one of the few if not the only kid not wearing gloves in 35 degree frigid weather with snow. That is a rarity these days but very refreshing. 20 years ago you would NEVER see kids wearing gloves but today it is considered part of the uniform when cold. Not a big deal but just something I notice especially if I am recruiting a kid. Just my opinion and not everyone's.
Quote from: MaturinNYC on November 19, 2018, 05:27:10 PMDifferent schools do it differently - Wash Univ. (at least last year) had a fantastic commentator
Jay Murry is the long-time broadcaster for all of Wash U's sports. He is outstanding at all of them, too.
I few loose thoughts as I wind down and out of 2018 (which is not to say that I won't try to catch the last 3 games)......
I am almost a Tufts fan....almost...
I can't recall him being talked about much (although Mr.Right might have and I missed it) but Van Brewer is more important to Tufts than I realized. He serves the Messiah Plaza role...distributing and playmaking. My guess is that you wouldn't think he is athlete if you saw him on the street, but he is very strong on the ball, you rarely see anyone take the ball off him, and he is crafty escaping pressure and making nice, accurate passes in tight spaces. And then I think his sub came in...#6...who promptly banged in a goal to put Tufts up 4-0.
I think I said this before, but Tufts was the wrong opponent for MSU....Tufts was ready to play and almost seemed disappointed that MSU didn't get chippier. I used the word 'relished' and that really fits for me in terms of how much Tufts embraced the matchup. MSU lost that game before they even got off the bus. And Tufts has the kind of depth where you wonder if the subs are better than some of the starters...and there certainly is no apparent drop-off in size or athleticism. I am looking forward to how Tufts and Rochester look out on the field against each other.
I didn't want to re-quote the whole thing, but I want to endorse FW's idea about greater participation and to agree that there can be a "broad brush" effect based on a limited number of posters for a school and even often only one poster. There are only 2-3 regular Messiah posters. And then there are the NESCAC posters, who roughly are one per school, not counting Mr.Right and blooter who follow and comment about NESCAC, UAA and the rest of New England with volume. Then there is the "Kenyon guy," the "W&L guy," the "OWU guy," the "North Park guy," etc, etc. Loras has had their two primary posters in the past and Chicago seems to have a couple. Seems like Calvin and Wheaton (Ill) have had a poster or two in the past. It would be nice if more teams had a handful or more of posters, which would also help those of us who do have specific teams from seeming like a team spokesperson or whatever or a single target for negativity towards a particular school by association. It's also inhibiting when you are a single poster. I actually would have liked to say more about Kenyon, including why I think they would have embraced playing Calvin and fared well, more critique of coaching decisions, poor plays, etc. Believe it or not, I've heard of some Kenyon folks feeling that I've been too critical to the extent that I've been referred to as a "Kenyon hater." Anyway, more posters would help increase activity, expression of different views, etc while taking some of the pressure/focus off of individual posters. Periodically we've had former players, especially those who have recently graduated, chime in, but they seem hesitant and generally dissipate into the ether within a few weeks or within at most a season or so. Maybe they are just better able to move on with their lives than dirt old posters like myself, but hopefully it's not because they find the waters too unwelcoming.
Good luck to the surviving foursome.
There's actually another fairly regular North Park soccer poster (Gotberg) and a couple of occasional NPU soccer posters (tjcummingsfan and Mark Erickson), but they confine their posts to the CCIW soccer board. Aside from a once-in-a-blue-moon cameo by Gotberg, I'm the only NPU supporter who ever ventures over here or to any of the other soccer boards.
I'll happily chime in more often but my bias is indicated in my name...
This Tufts team is impressive - the fact that the Bos have become a top program only 8 years after being in shambles with Ferrigno is something else.
Quote from: MaturinNYC on November 19, 2018, 11:28:50 PM
I'm a UofR fan, but I got inspired to post today to tip my hat to the players and fans of Messiah - your quality on the field is mirrored by your class and graciousness off of it.
I'm gratified and humbled by your own display of graciousness, MaturinNYC. Deeply so. I left +K a few hours ago but didn't have a chance to respond verbally. Honestly, this type of response is the biggest reason I'm a Falcon fan. I can't take any credit whatsoever for the things that led you to say this--as I said yesterday, I was on the road all day and nowhere near Rochester, but I probably know some of the people who impressed you. I'm 100% confident that the players, the coach, and the parents (at least once they gain some experience as Falcon fans) agree that Messiah soccer is more about
being someone than
doing something.
I can buy into that only from a certain distance: I have no sons or relatives who've played for Messiah, I'm not close to the coaches, and I've had conversations with any of the parents only half a dozen times over the past few years. It's still wonderful to see it, even if not from very close up. It actually is true, as far as I can tell from that distance. Winning big games has become commonplace for them at this point, but winning at bigger things matters more to them: and that has been true since long before that first championship. Thank you (again) for the extraordinary kindness of sharing this impression. I hope Rochester can emulate the Falcon program on this too, as well as in finding success on the pitch. A lot of us are rooting for you the rest of the way.
Quote from: Past Jumbo on November 20, 2018, 01:36:55 PM
I'll happily chime in more often but my bias is indicated in my name...
Pardon the suggestion, but isn't a "past Jumbo" just another name for a Mammoth? ???
Tufts Van Brewer is very skilled and plays fast with the ball at his feet which I like. He does make the engine run BUT I would still like to see an opponent stick the kid hard right out of the gates. That does not mean "a dirty foul" or going out to injure the kid at all but just keep a kid on him like glue and the minute he touches the ball then stick him hard. Easier said than done but certainly not impossible. He usually takes one touch and distributes as I rarely see him take on 3 to 4 guys in the middle of the field. Disrupt him and you will disrupt Tufts attack as long as Rojas does not pick up the slack which he is quite capable of. I think UR sits with 6 but I have not seen them play since mid October. My only issue with Van Brewer is his lack of interest in getting stuck in. It's not his job but it would be nice to know how many tackles he has this season. So to recap....
No gloves=Tough kid
Gloves=75% are Soft 25% Tough
Double Gloved=I do not want to play in cold weather. Why am I here? I guess I will play but I refuse to tackle.
Note=1st day in Massachusetts and the first 2 stores East of the Mississippi to open legal weed stores. As you can imagine lines are going around blocks to get in. 219 Million in revenue for the state but a real slow and methodical rollout is unfortunate. Anyway, maybe there is a strand that could help Van Brewer and give him confidence to stick guys.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 20, 2018, 10:42:09 AM
UR is extremely organized defensively and is just as athletic as Tufts. UR has some gamers and that game will be as tight as a Snare Drum. I love the Frosh defender for UR who took a few weeks to get on the field but once he did he was a in mainstay. He is a tough athletic kid #27 Will Eisold who also by the looks of your pictures might have been one of the few if not the only kid not wearing gloves in 35 degree frigid weather with snow. That is a rarity these days but very refreshing. 20 years ago you would NEVER see kids wearing gloves but today it is considered part of the uniform when cold. Not a big deal but just something I notice especially if I am recruiting a kid. Just my opinion and not everyone's.
You obviously have been watching them, spot-on with your notes! Will has been phenomenal, hard to believe that he was playing HS ball this time last year. Some bad injuries to some great kids (including his older brother, JR, and Lasha Alkhazishvili, both fantastic CBs) unfortunately opened the door, but he's been clutch since coming on. You are mistaken about the gloves thing though - 4 or 5 of our guys were barehanded, and Zach (CDM) wore the same kit he did in August. I'd love to go on a long post about the squad, but they're still playing and it's not my role to comment too much now, but i will say that "gamers" is an apt description of them all. No doubt that's true for every team that plays in late November, so we should be in for some exciting matches in Greensboro.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 20, 2018, 02:57:43 PM
Note=1st day in Massachusetts and the first 2 stores East of the Mississippi to open legal weed stores. As you can imagine lines are going around blocks to get in. 219 Million in revenue for the state but a real slow and methodical rollout is unfortunate. Anyway, maybe there is a strand that could help Van Brewer and give him confidence to stick guys.
This made me laugh so hard, although I wish I hadn't been eating lunch while reading it. When I started reading the paragraph I wondered how the heck it was relevant at all, but I got my answer by the end.
Quote from: Past Jumbo on November 20, 2018, 01:36:55 PM
This Tufts team is impressive - the fact that the Bos have become a top program only 8 years after being in shambles with Ferrigno is something else.
Have to give Ferrigno credit for having a LFC training shirt in his first Google Images result, but with that mustache my goodness does he look familiar... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borat_Sagdiyev)
Quote from: blooter442 on November 20, 2018, 05:10:23 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 20, 2018, 02:57:43 PM
Note=1st day in Massachusetts and the first 2 stores East of the Mississippi to open legal weed stores. As you can imagine lines are going around blocks to get in. 219 Million in revenue for the state but a real slow and methodical rollout is unfortunate. Anyway, maybe there is a strand that could help Van Brewer and give him confidence to stick guys.
This made me laugh so hard, although I wish I hadn't been eating lunch while reading it. When I started reading the paragraph I wondered how the heck it was relevant at all, but I got my answer by the end.
Quote from: Past Jumbo on November 20, 2018, 01:36:55 PM
This Tufts team is impressive - the fact that the Bos have become a top program only 8 years after being in shambles with Ferrigno is something else.
Have to give Ferrigno credit for having a LFC training shirt in his first Google Images result, but with that mustache my goodness does he look familiar... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borat_Sagdiyev)
Post of the Season shortly before the Final 4 Mr. Right!!!
From my experience the best players are normally those that are always calm in possession.
There is a Strain for everything my friend :)
Quote from: truenorth on November 19, 2018, 03:25:59 PM
Yes...I find the preoccupation with "beautiful futbol" in D3 soccer to be somewhat amusing. This is not La Liga, nor is it year around club soccer. This is D3 soccer...featuring good, hard working athletes who play a very short regular season leading in to a high pressure "one and done" NCAA tournament. The object is to win. If I were a coach, I'd be encouraging athleticism, fearlessness, winning the 50/50s and strong, high pressure defense from front to back. If you have the time to knock it around and effectively build up an attack...great...but you gotta do what you gotta do when faced with various circumstances in the moment. And you'd better be adaptable. It's about effectiveness and not aesthetics...
I think there is a reason they call ours the beautiful game.
I was the first or second poster to congratulate the Amherst boys for reaching the promiseland a few seasons ago.
They deserved their crown and no one can take it away from them. Ever.
I think it is an all-time debate that is maybe as old as football itself.
I prefer (as a fan) to watch a passing team with individuals who are skillful on the ball and have really quick brain speed.
I love to see a #10 make a pass that I did not see before he made it and his teammate (9/7) being the only other human that knew the play in advance and made the right run.
Total football when played by good footballers cannot be beat in my opinion.
I still think there is a place for winning, after all at the end of the day that is what survives the test of time, championships, but soccer should be played on the ground in my opinion, and is more pleasing (to watch atleast) that way.
"Quality without results is pointless. Results without quality is boring."
"Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is."
The previous points by Saint of Old and EB2319 are completely valid! I love quality football, but I also love the Premier League much more than La Liga or Serie A. What drives me as a former college athlete (D1 Nordic skier) and as a fan of many sports is competitiveness. I'm most inspired and compelled by individual athletes and teams who compete hard and leave it all out there. Thus I'd take an ugly highly competitive football team over a pretty playing but less competitive team. I realize those are not mutually exclusive, but I love hard competition, and you don't always see it when a team is playing it out of the back and focused on linking passes to build the attack, but aren't necessarily challenging all the 50/50s or defending from front to back. Just my personal preference...and I realize other folks have other preferences...
Not trying to be a yes man but I think truenorth is bang on — I was a Nordic skier and runner in high school and to me there is nothing more satisfying than edging a close battle based on toughness and grit. I would also profess to be more of a PL fan for its competitiveness.
All things equal, I'd rather watch Barcelona than Stoke City/WBA/Amherst/etc. Moreover, I admire teams that have the ambition to keep the ball on the ground. At the end of the day, though, results are what matters. I think a team that strives to play pretty has to have some steel to be successful. You can't tiki taka the ball in every time.
Therefore, to me, the teams most impressive are those that can win while playing nice stuff. As Saint of Old said, nothing beats Total Football and other possession-based styles — but few can pull them off successfully. Those that do not only withstand the test of time but will be admired that much more.
Interesting side topic. I've posted a bunch about how frustrating Hopkins can be, because they almost refuse to play Route 1 football, no matter what the situation dictates. I'm all for possession, and that's how I've coached many teams. But as others have mentioned, sometimes you need to mix that up either because the other team is bunkering, or it's late in a game and you simply don't have time to make 18 passes to break down a team.
The other thing that drives me a little nuts about possession to a fault teams: It's very difficult to pass the ball into the goal, regardless of what the other team is doing. SHOOT THE BALL. Lots of teams fall into this trap. If you're 25-18 yards out and you have a window, shoot the ball.
"you can't score if you don't shoot"
Quote from: EB2319 on November 21, 2018, 10:56:09 AM
"you can't score if you don't shoot"
"When you take a shot, nothing bad can happen."
Quote from: Falconer on November 21, 2018, 02:08:00 PM
"When you take a shot, nothing bad can happen."
False ;-) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJYtDPcd-fU
Quote from: EB2319 on November 21, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: Falconer on November 21, 2018, 02:08:00 PM
"When you take a shot, nothing bad can happen."
False ;-) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJYtDPcd-fU
This was the exact moment I became a true and proper football fan.
True story.
This is the video I saw first.
"...very keen to go to ground" ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slk-PEzbvag
That is one of the most amazing turn of events in a football match I've ever seen...thanks for sharing!
Have I lost my touch, or is there really no video for the Final Four?!
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 23, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Have I lost my touch, or is there really no video for the Final Four?!
Check again on the 30th - when the game is schedule ;D
Ha! So the answer is yes. And no. Thanks, EB.
A week before the big matches, anyone have predictions? As a Calvin fan I think this is the year they take the crown. They play beautiful soccer with tremendous skill. The game with Chicago should be a great game. I think Tufts will get the better of Rochester setting up a Tufts v. Calvin final. A rematch of 2016. Anyone else have thoughts?
Quote from: Knight_Fan4L on November 23, 2018, 02:41:57 PM
A week before the big matches, anyone have predictions? As a Calvin fan I think this is the year they take the crown. They play beautiful soccer with tremendous skill. The game with Chicago should be a great game. I think Tufts will get the better of Rochester setting up a Tufts v. Calvin final. A rematch of 2016. Anyone else have thoughts?
I did not see the game v Chicago at Calvin in September, but the stats offered in the box score certainly provide encouragement for a different result next week. Calvin outshot Chicago 19 (9) to 9 (5) and had 6 corners to Chicago's 1. Even more startling was the foul total, with Chicago being whistled for 13 to Calvin's 2 (!). Calvin is certainly due for a championship, but the stars seem equally well-aligned for the Maroons.
Quote from: Knight_Fan4L on November 23, 2018, 02:41:57 PM
A week before the big matches, anyone have predictions? As a Calvin fan I think this is the year they take the crown. They play beautiful soccer with tremendous skill. The game with Chicago should be a great game. I think Tufts will get the better of Rochester setting up a Tufts v. Calvin final. A rematch of 2016. Anyone else have thoughts?
Personally, I see an all-UAA final, with Chicago taking the crown, due to the fact that as the higher seed, they won't have to wear their hideous maroon-and-gray road unis. Wearing those uniforms should be a felony.
Quote from: Buck O. on November 23, 2018, 04:39:02 PM
Personally, I see an all-UAA final, with Chicago taking the crown, due to the fact that as the higher seed, they won't have to wear their hideous maroon-and-gray road unis. Wearing those uniforms should be a felony.
The dark grey with maroon stripes? Coming from a town/club with maroon as the main color, I love that option.
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 23, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Have I lost my touch, or is there really no video for the Final Four?!
They actually used to have the final four over thanks giving break.
Really gave all 4 teams an opportunity to break bread before the war begins.
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 23, 2018, 08:33:37 PM
Quote from: Jump4Joy on November 23, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
Have I lost my touch, or is there really no video for the Final Four?!
They actually used to have the final four over thanks giving break.
Really gave all 4 teams an opportunity to break bread before the war begins.
I'm pretty sure the NCAA not wanting to pay to fly teams on short notice on Thanksgiving weekend also has something to do with it.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 23, 2018, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 23, 2018, 04:39:02 PM
Personally, I see an all-UAA final, with Chicago taking the crown, due to the fact that as the higher seed, they won't have to wear their hideous maroon-and-gray road unis. Wearing those uniforms should be a felony.
The dark grey with maroon stripes? Coming from a town/club with maroon as the main color, I love that option.
The maroon and grey looks really good in person. Very La Liga style.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 20, 2018, 12:07:46 PM
I few loose thoughts as I wind down and out of 2018 (which is not to say that I won't try to catch the last 3 games)......
I am almost a Tufts fan....almost...
I can't recall him being talked about much (although Mr.Right might have and I missed it) but Van Brewer is more important to Tufts than I realized. He serves the Messiah Plaza role...distributing and playmaking. My guess is that you wouldn't think he is athlete if you saw him on the street, but he is very strong on the ball, you rarely see anyone take the ball off him, and he is crafty escaping pressure and making nice, accurate passes in tight spaces. And then I think his sub came in...#6...who promptly banged in a goal to put Tufts up 4-0.
I think I said this before, but Tufts was the wrong opponent for MSU....Tufts was ready to play and almost seemed disappointed that MSU didn't get chippier. I used the word 'relished' and that really fits for me in terms of how much Tufts embraced the matchup. MSU lost that game before they even got off the bus. And Tufts has the kind of depth where you wonder if the subs are better than some of the starters...and there certainly is no apparent drop-off in size or athleticism. I am looking forward to how Tufts and Rochester look out on the field against each other.
I didn't want to re-quote the whole thing, but I want to endorse FW's idea about greater participation and to agree that there can be a "broad brush" effect based on a limited number of posters for a school and even often only one poster. There are only 2-3 regular Messiah posters. And then there are the NESCAC posters, who roughly are one per school, not counting Mr.Right and blooter who follow and comment about NESCAC, UAA and the rest of New England with volume. Then there is the "Kenyon guy," the "W&L guy," the "OWU guy," the "North Park guy," etc, etc. Loras has had their two primary posters in the past and Chicago seems to have a couple. Seems like Calvin and Wheaton (Ill) have had a poster or two in the past. It would be nice if more teams had a handful or more of posters, which would also help those of us who do have specific teams from seeming like a team spokesperson or whatever or a single target for negativity towards a particular school by association. It's also inhibiting when you are a single poster. I actually would have liked to say more about Kenyon, including why I think they would have embraced playing Calvin and fared well, more critique of coaching decisions, poor plays, etc. Believe it or not, I've heard of some Kenyon folks feeling that I've been too critical to the extent that I've been referred to as a "Kenyon hater." Anyway, more posters would help increase activity, expression of different views, etc while taking some of the pressure/focus off of individual posters. Periodically we've had former players, especially those who have recently graduated, chime in, but they seem hesitant and generally dissipate into the ether within a few weeks or within at most a season or so. Maybe they are just better able to move on with their lives than dirt old posters like myself, but hopefully it's not because they find the waters too unwelcoming.
Good luck to the surviving foursome.
Maybe it's because everyone else but us losers have a life 😳
Quote from: Falconer on November 20, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
Quote from: Past Jumbo on November 20, 2018, 01:36:55 PM
I'll happily chime in more often but my bias is indicated in my name...
Pardon the suggestion, but isn't a "past Jumbo" just another name for a Mammoth? ???
Hahaha... good one Falconer! 🐘🐘🐘🐘
Bloots, excellent preview of Semi-final No. 2!
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 26, 2018, 02:32:17 PM
Bloots, excellent preview of Semi-final No. 2!
Thanks! Excited for both semis, but that one in particular.
Quote from: Falconer on November 19, 2018, 12:46:45 PM
I just wanted to circle back to a comment I made during the Messiah-Cortland game on Saturday, specifically this one:
"Quite possibly, Ruiz Plaza is the most skillful handler in the tournament..."
<BIG SNIP>
Finally, in terms of losing him rather than someone else for the second week of games, if someone had asked me beforehand which Falcon(s) would I be most concerned about losing for the tournament, here's my list of three, in order:
--West (duh)
--Ruiz Plaza
--Luke Groothoff
In other words, I'd rather have almost anyone else miss those games. Ruiz Plaza was the main driver of the Falcon offense this year, as he had been for each of the 3 previous seasons. He didn't start the first two games of his FR season (2015), but after the debacle at CMU he entered the starting lineup and stayed there, except for injuries, the rest of his career. In Falcon history, it's unusual for a FR to start most or all of a season, and exceptional to do so at the 6/8 position that runs the offense. I don't quite think his game was on the level of Brian Ramirez, and certainly not at the level of the great Hayden Woodworth (POY in 2002 and the main reason for winning the Final Four in 2000), but he's head and shoulders above most other occupants of that role in Falcon history. It will be awfully hard to replace him in 2019.
I feel gratified by this information that just came out: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/web/Awards/Recipients/2018_United_Soccer_Coaches_NCAA_Division_III_Men_s_All-Mid-Atlantic_Region_Teams.aspx. West was obviously a foregone conclusion, but Ruiz Plaza finally gets recognized for the high level skills he cultivated.
Honestly I'm surprised that Luke Groothoff got recognized as a FR (the only one on the first or second team), but (as I've said all year) he's dynamite at CB, better than anyone else I've seen this year except Vegter--even though he didn't play there in HS. I hope he makes it all the way to the national AA team. I've seen most of the defenders on this list of regional AAs, and IMO Groothoff is already better than any of them. I'm also glad to see Gilbert Waso here; as I said somewhere last week, he's a personal favorite.
Vindicated? About what? Didn't see anyone disagree with you that Plaza is really, really good and/or a key player for Messiah.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 28, 2018, 09:39:33 AM
Vindicated? About what? Didn't see anyone disagree with you that Plaza is really, really good and/or a key player for Messiah.
"Gratified" would be a better word, PaulNewman, and I just changed it. Thanks for the implicit suggestion.
Quote from: blue_jays on November 24, 2018, 10:09:40 AM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 23, 2018, 06:42:57 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 23, 2018, 04:39:02 PM
Personally, I see an all-UAA final, with Chicago taking the crown, due to the fact that as the higher seed, they won't have to wear their hideous maroon-and-gray road unis. Wearing those uniforms should be a felony.
The dark grey with maroon stripes? Coming from a town/club with maroon as the main color, I love that option.
The maroon and grey looks really good in person. Very La Liga style.
I'll admit that I've never seen them in person, but I have my doubts. I have nothing against maroon or gray, but I don't think they go together.
Then again, some of the away kits in La Liga over the years have been pretty ugly, too, so I'll agree with the second sentence!
On the subject of kit selection, I wonder why Tufts wore the (very spiffy in my opinion) blue-and-black-striped "third kit" (http://www.gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/msoc/2018-19/photos/0003/index) in its regular-season home game against Amherst but wore the home kit in the NCAA game. At first I thought it had replaced the light blue as the away kit and was being worn due to the weekend double-header (even a home team hosting a double header wears its away kit at least once), but I have seen them wear their traditional blue away kit this year, so clearly it has not been supplanted. NCAA mandate, maybe?
I was under the impression it was just for homecoming? I do like these, though! Much better than blue and brown hoops ;)
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 28, 2018, 04:14:33 PM
I was under the impression it was just for homecoming? I do like these, though! Much better than blue and brown hoops ;)
If so, that's a lot of money for one game (or so I'd imagine)!
Quote from: blooter442 on November 28, 2018, 04:27:19 PM
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 28, 2018, 04:14:33 PM
I was under the impression it was just for homecoming? I do like these, though! Much better than blue and brown hoops ;)
If so, that's a lot of money for one game (or so I'd imagine)!
It could also be that the boys bought the shirts as a team to wear at the Homecoming game and then keep. One of my sons' team did that one year.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 28, 2018, 04:46:13 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 28, 2018, 04:27:19 PM
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 28, 2018, 04:14:33 PM
I was under the impression it was just for homecoming? I do like these, though! Much better than blue and brown hoops ;)
If so, that's a lot of money for one game (or so I'd imagine)!
It could also be that the boys bought the shirts as a team to wear at the Homecoming game and then keep. One of my sons' team did that one year.
Have they been seen before? My team pulled a kit out of the athletic archives because we thought it was sweet, plus our kit that year was horrendous. Coach/AD allowed us to wear it for one game.
Apparently they are a kit; Tufts wore them for one other game this year. As for other schools using "older" uniforms, Brandeis definitely did that last year in the NCAA matches, bringing out its old away blues in the Sweet 16 and Elite 8 and the home whites in the 2nd Round, using them instead of the newer uniforms which have been around since 2015 or so.
Most teams have a Men's Soccer budget that can swell throughout the year primarily from Alum support. One of the first things Tufts did after 2014 that I noticed(it might have been done earlier) was to put a link to donate to Men's Soccer the minute you went on their homepage. I would imagine that Tufts Men's Soccer giving has expanded by leaps and bounds since Shapiro's arrival and especially since the 2 NCAA Titles. Because of the close knit family atmosphere on every Tufts team the past 5-6 years especially and in the future Tufts should have a pretty solid Men's Soccer budget. Most teams will hit up alums every three years before they take their pre-season trips to Europe or wherever to help pay for expenses and also help out some of the guys that just cannot afford to throw down an extra $2000 or more depending on the itinerary on top of tuition and everything else. In the off years that budget will be used for everything imaginable to new uniforms, new balls, new training equipment, adding extra money on top of the little meal money these kids get when they go on the road, etc etc etc. Uniforms are the biggest one and some schools will change it up every year. Williams for example used to change its kit almost every year with the Seniors an especially Captains picking what they wanted. I am sure someone could youtube 2011 because Williams Captains chose an All Gold with Purple trim Home kit which might have been the most hideous uniform I have seen but in 20 years it might look sweet to someone else's eyes. Anyway, most teams have 2 kits(Home and Away) but there are some teams in D3 with a 3rd Kit for different occasions. While some might say who cares about uniforms BUT players have pride in that jersey they put on every game and most players love to choose what they put on. Quite frankly, Tufts kind of has an ugly scheme of colors so it can be more challenging I would imagine for them to get something that everyone can agree on but players enjoy the process.
It is really hard to predict these 2 Final 4 games for me because I have only seen Calvin once and Chicago twice this season. Obviously, I have seen Tufts play all year but only really seen UR 3 times this season. I am not even going to get my feet stuck in mud with Chicago and Calvin but will predict that while most people see that game having the best chance for some goals I really think BOTH Semi's will be very tight low scoring matches. 1-0 or 0-0 would not surprise me for either game. The weather for Greensboro, NC looks interesting with a decent 55 degrees and 60% chance of rain. More importantly they are predicting 15mph winds which while not extreme it is enough to definitely effect the match. Winning the toss will be important because you always take the win at your back 1st Half as obviously the wind could die down or not be a factor 2nd Half. Interestingly, some teams play better going into the wind because it makes them focus more with the idea being they have to work harder going into the wind and are focusing more because they are aware the other team has an advantage. On the flip some teams take for granted the wind at their backs and do not work "as hard" because they figure the other team is at a disadvantage. This is all relative ofcourse because it is possible the wind will have no factor at all and this being a NCAA Final 4 game BOTH teams will be 100% focused and busting their butts.
Please any UR fan correct me with anything I have wrong but let me take a stab at this. What I remember about Rochester when I have seen them this year was they are in a 4-2-3-1 and attack with 4 but give that 5th player(the other midfielder) the freedom to move box to box and get in attack especially on the counter. They interchange nicely in attack and will transition very fast from defene to attack and vice versa. Like Tufts they hunt the ball immediately after a give away with instant pressure to get the ball back. Their #4 Bryce Ikeda has to be their best and most complete player. He is a stud with few weaknesses that I can see. He uses both feet, technical, gives great service, has a long throw and is a gamer. He is a total competitor and his teammates follow his lead. A perfect Captain he also looks to be the type of gamer that will find a goal for his team when they desperately need one. #14 Josh Cooley has 6 Goals and is a skilled player with a nice left foot.#10 Patrick Douge is a nice left footed player off the bench for them. I remember the striker Aidan Miller who is extremely dangerous and should cause Tufts CB's some problems. I would expect Tufts CB Paoletta to be watching him closely. Miller has 5 Goals on the season but a quick glance at the stats and all 5 were against UAA competition to lead his team in league goals. To me that is most important showing you can score against the best defenses in D3. #6 Ulrik Koren's Goal off beautiful service from Douge on the flank was a masterpiece volley. #11 Nik Angval I really enjoy watch play. He is a gritty kid and IIRC is their holder. He gets stuck in but also can thread the needle. I would imagine if you were to watch a UR practice you would see them working a ton on box play both in attack and on defense. They are VERY dangerous in the box in attack especially on set pieces but also from the flanks as against Brandeis this year when they won the ball back they would play a quick pass or two and find their flank players who were whipping balls into the box with numbers getting there. On a counter that will be dangerous for Tufts to defend as UR looks really well schooled on positioning in the box on attack and where the service is going to end up. The one position that makes me nervy for UR is in net. GK Patrick Conway seems like a great kid and is a solid GK but not a superior GK. He is listed at 5'9 but I would guess that might be an inch generous and I just do not like small GK'ers especially against a team like Tufts. That is just me and everyone is different but for some reason my eyes on the stream see a mouse in a giant net and I do not like the look. I will say he is very quick and I would be willing to guess he is one of the faster players on the UR roster. He is a natural shot stopper with good reflexes. Against Brockport in the NCAA 2nd Round he made a couple real nice saves but he also looked very questionable on crosses and actually bobbled a dangerous one that Brockport almost finished. I see saves from the kid but I also see juicy rebounds where there should not be. I just do not feel comfortable with him on long balls being pumped into his box. His defenders MUST protect him in their box for them to advance against Tufts IMO. Also, he has to try to limit the rebounds and second chances Tufts will get because they will crash that net and they have been scoring some scrappy goals as of late. In recap, as long as Conway can stay mistake free I give UR a real solid chance to advance because they can match Tufts physicality and mental toughness. This scrappy UR team does not look like a team to me that is just happy to be here as they have a look like they want to get this done and go home with the trophy. Sometimes teams that get to their first Final 4 have a look of satisfaction and nervousness in their first Final 4 BUT this UR team has a different look to me and have the confidence to get this done.
Shapiro has been changing and tinkering with Tufts lineup all year as he does a pretty good job of getting everyone there fair share of minutes and also giving young guys a solid run to get them prepared for future years. However, I do not expect any changes for this match unless there is an injury I do not know about. As long as Rojas and Van Brewer are starting in midfield than to me Tufts looks like they are in a 4-1-4-1. They have their only Frosh starter at LB but that doesn't mean you can go at him as along with CB Paoletta that side of the field is very solid. 2 excellent backs. RB Weatherbie is also pretty solid but under pressure he will give the ball away as he is not the most skilled player out there. CB Najjar worries me the most as he can look suspect back there on occasion especially 1v1 defending. Holding midfielder Aroh has done well I suppose but I am still not convinced and I think a player like UR Ikeda is the type of mobile player that can give Aroh and Najjar fits in this game. The rest of Tufts starters are very solid and dangerous players. Van Brewer and Rojas look to be playing some of their best futbol in a Tufts uniform and Tasker has been playing out of his mind this season. Lane out wide is also problematic for defense and UR wingbacks MUST be ready. Braun is Braun. This is where UR GK Conway makes me nervy. I can just picture for example from a quick counter that is played wide and a long serve from the flank by say Tasker into a charging Braun with a UR defender backpedaling and UR GK Conway coming off his line to get the ball. The 6'5 Braun will win that battle but does he finish? He has had problems finishing lately but has also surprised me with all the goals he has scored this year.
Anyhow it should be an excellent matchup and I am looking forward to both matches. Asked my boss to work from home tomorrow and for all that are still in school.....Work from home=doing laundry and watching the games with a couple emails to make myself look busy....
The hideous kit I referenced was something very close to this... https://sidelineswap.com/gear/soccer/apparel/565534-umbro-diamond-pattern-44-xl-long-sleeve-soccer-dri-fit-shirt.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 29, 2018, 01:34:30 PM
The hideous kit I referenced was something very close to this... https://sidelineswap.com/gear/soccer/apparel/565534-umbro-diamond-pattern-44-xl-long-sleeve-soccer-dri-fit-shirt.
HAHA that was CLASSIC UMBRO 1990's style.....Umbro dominated for a while and then faded
Final 4 Prediction.
I was flipping by some NBA Basketball commentary a few months back and I heard Kenny "The Jet"Smith make an extremely astute observation.
This 2 time NBA Champion said:
Winning a National Championmship has nothing vto do with the game played on the court (field)".
He is absolutely right, in my opinion.
The comradrie and special bonds, locker room hijinks, ribbing each other, crazy inside jokes, how guys got their nick names, and just general team spirit/vibe/love is what does it.
Once you go past a certain phase, every team remaining is stacked with talent and an unbelievable amount of will power.
The margin for error is soo very thin that it is these unmeasurable variables that do the trick.
Simply put... how much do these guys love each other and the program/coach they play for... Will they put forward that extra effort to help their teammate in trouble.
All of this is subconcious and develops overtime by osmosis.
The Hungriest team will always eat the food at the end of the day... more often than not it is the team with the most togetherness and brotherhood.
I know we are all ready to play!!!
We will have to settle for watching a great final four with all amazing teams... but like the Highlander... There Can be ONLY 1.
Tufts 2-0 Rochester
Chicago 2-1 Calvin
Chicago 2-1 Tufts
Greensboro,NC weather looks nice today. A guess would say a comfortable soccer playing 55 degrees with no rain. Looking at the American flag high up above the scoreboard it looks to be somewhat windy but certainly not 15mph. Some gusts for sure...
I will go:
Calvin 1-0 Chicago
UR 1-1 Tufts PK's coin flip....
Chicago looks really good out of the gate...Calvin looking to counter. Seems the Maroons are winning the midfield battle.
This is a real great start to this first game...Both teams fighting like mad and both teams NOT sitting in....There will definitely be some goals in this match....Enjoy this one because Game 2 will be the opposite...
Big chance for Calvin right there...McCaw gets it right in front but puts it at Katsimpalis who did make a nice save...wow.
2 HUGE chances for Calvin and absolutely STUFFED....This has been Calvin's problem in the Final 4...They MUST finish these early chances.
WOW! Calvin coming out firing and totally dominating. Katsimpalis with two incredible saves - unbelievable. Should be 2-0 Calvin.
Another big chance goes begging for Calvin — Katsimpalis stuffs Witte in transition. Chicago's backs have been caught too high twice already. They may be winning the midfield battle but need to get a grip defensively.
Calvin not dominating but Chicago looks susceptible on the counter and their midfield defensively MUST get it straightened out
"... as Chicago had plenty of chances. North Park's goalie had at least twenty saves, and I'm not exaggerating."
Uh, Dave, Mathias Stulen had 11 saves for NPU against the Maroons in last year's semi.
I will say Calvin's LB looks shaky to start this match...Couple giveaway's and some 1v1 issues so Chicago would be wise to attack that side of the field...
And Calvin strikes first! McCaw with a nice hit but questionable defending by Chicago.
Question...in a weekend double-header (whether 1st/2nd Round, Sweet 16/Elite 8, or Final 4/Championship) how much difference in terms of fatigue does getting to play the first game (as opposed to the second) on the first day make? Does that extra two hours of recovery make a difference after going hard for 90/110 mins? Sounds like a n00b question but I never played. I would imagine it makes at least a little difference because most coaches will pick the first game when hosting a pod. FWIW, in running high school an extra hour between the mile and two-mile in big meets (conference/state/etc.) made all the difference but obviously those were being run in the same day versus over two.
That was a heck of a goal by McCaw.
Wow...Chicago falling apart defensively here. 2-0 Calvin.
And Chicago hits one right back...really nice individual move by Koh who feeds Adeosun on the line less than a minute after going 2-0 down. Should be a heck of a game.
Will Chicago stay calm in their 4-2-3-1 or will they force it....Honestly, Chicago needs to wake up defensively....
BARN BURNER...This game is fantastic....Calvin GK a massive error...You gotta dive on that ball on Koh's foot....Calvin's 2nd goal another GK'ing error as Chicago's GK way off his line....
Great stuff this Half....
What a game! Chicago gets back in it. Calvin 2 Chicago 1
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 11:30:50 AM
Question...in a weekend double-header (whether 1st/2nd Round, Sweet 16/Elite 8, or Final 4/Championship) how much difference in terms of fatigue does getting to play the first game (as opposed to the second) on the first day make? Does that extra two hours of recovery make a difference after going hard for 90/110 mins? Sounds like a n00b question but I never played. I would imagine it makes at least a little difference because most coaches will pick the first game when hosting a pod. FWIW, in running high school an extra hour between the mile and two-mile in big meets (conference/state/etc.) made all the difference but obviously those were being run in the same day versus over two.
IMO it makes a big difference especially for the big guys over 6'3...They take longer to regenerate.
I don't know that I'd call Calvin's second goal a keeper error. Very difficult to tell on the broadcast, but it sure looked like that was an intended cross that he either mis-hit or it got deflected and swerved right under the bar.
I'd call that more fluke than error.
/splitting hairs
UC keeper making great saves or this score could be 4-1 at this point.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 30, 2018, 11:38:02 AM
mi****
lol...you got stopped by the BoardBot saying what seemed to have been "mis-hit" (sans dash).
This game is bonkers.
Whooey...Calvin with TWO huge chances, one hits the bar and another cleared off the line. Calvin should be home and dry but a combination of luck and a well-timed run from Koh has them still in it.
Calvin is ALL OVER and I am not sure where the UC defense is
That is a killer 3rd Goal right before the Half....Chicago MUST come out and switch it up...I mean this team is in a 4-2-3-1 and they are getting smoked sitting with 6....They are going to have to come out and attack with numbers and outscore Calvin and leave their GK out to dry on the counter....
And Calvin gets a third..Katsimpalis came wayyyyy out of his net and got caught in no-man's land. 3-1 now.
Yeah, Calvin is bossing this game right now. And UC is RATTLED big time. If they had gutted it out and got to half at 2-1, I'd say this game has legs.
As it stands, Chicago needs to get it together in the back or this is going to be an embarrassing result.
Wow. That was the most fun I've had watching a first half of college soccer in a LONG time.
Can't say that Calvin doesn't deserve their 3-1 halftime lead, they are absolutely running this game.
Quote from: Knight_Fan4L on November 30, 2018, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 11:34:28 AM
Will Chicago stay calm in their 4-2-3-1 or will they force it....Honestly, Chicago needs to wake up defensively....
BARN BURNER...This game is fantastic....Calvin GK a massive error...You gotta dive on that ball on Koh's foot....Calvin's 2nd goal another GK'ing error as Chicago's GK way off his line....
Great stuff this Half....
I wouldn't say the second Calvin goal was the GK's fault. Adams tried to cross it, the defender running along side made contact with the ball in his stride and deflected it in. The GK was looking for a cross and an awkward shot came at him.
Still was out of position and about 3-4 steps to far off his line....either way it doesnt matter because he has saved about 3 Goals along with his crossbar and one cleared off the line....I am really surprised Chicago is not more disciplined defensively as they came out of the gates PINCHED in a 4-2-3-1 and were giving Calvin all the room on the flanks that they wanted...Calvin burned them all Half...Chicago's tactics did not work in that Half.
Time to see what Chicago coach is made of. They haven't been down 2 goals all season.
The set-up for this game strongly favored Calvin. The Knights almost never lose and last two losses to Chicago. Really hard to beat a team as good as Calvin 3 times in a row. Souders is also a fantastic motivational coach and he had his guys primed. Now I'm questioning why I slightly favored Chicago. I thought the Maroons might come out flying and get a couple of quick goals themselves. They looked good first 6-8 minutes but last 30 minutes could not sustain any possession in their offensive half and Calvin looks lethal. Chicago could score a couple of goals in 2nd half but don't see how they will prevent more goals from Calvin.
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 30, 2018, 11:51:10 AM
Wow. That was the most fun I've had watching a first half of college soccer in a LONG time.
Agreed - these teams are playing direct, aggressive, but beautiful soccer. They both deserve to be here.
Pet Peeve:
A cross to no one is not a good play. It means you didn't pick your head up to see your pass was going to be fruitless.
It's the only area on the field where fans/announcers praise a pass that had no chance of connecting with anyone.
Geez. Calvin is really clinical in their finishing. Chicago does a lot of ball watching in their defensive 3rd.
BALLGAME.....Calvin looks determined to go home with that trophy....Chicago to lackadaisical on defense 1st Half killed em....Chicago loses 4 Seniors but some bigtime players.....Calvin should enjoy this wide open space today because I can promise you Tufts or UR will not be giving them anything resembling this type of space....
4-1 honestly flatters Chicago. Could be about 7.
I've been on a call so I just turned this game on and ... what in the heck is going on here? Calvin plays a ball to a man who is virtually standing on the penalty spot and who is completely unmarked by UC, and of course he puts it in to make it 4-1. This isn't the Chicago that I saw the last few weeks.
Honestly I thought Chicago's size and midfield would see them through this game, but they have been totally ripped apart by Calvin. Those Calvin wingers have had a field day with Chicago's pinched wingers. You know Calvin's wings are strong, gotta have some pressure rather than just letting them walk right in.
Again, 4-1 flattered Chicago — Calvin was totally dominant. The Maroons had a great season and made a second-consecutive Final 4 but Calvin was the worthy winner.
Yup you are correct Bloots it could have been worse...I did not like the tactics from Babst in the opening half but honestly Chicago's midfield were not tracking and maybe not asked to track and their defenders were off all day. Calvin had a field day.....
The only way Chicago wins that game with the system they played and suffocating the middle of the field would be on a narrow field(Amherst field). Then his tactics would have worked but on a field that looks to be 120x80 you just cannot do it. You cannot give Calvin all that space out wide. Also, Chicago's wingers were pinched BUT they were looking to break on attack rather then actually defending and hunting the ball. It was not a good performance and Babst will be disappointed in his players IMO in that game but also you have to question the approach. 1st Half stay tight and give Calvin nothing. Keep them off the board then IF you want to attack give it a go 2nd Half...maybe he was trying to get the 1st Goal but IDK.....
Jesus....Tufts has 21 Goals in their last 7 Games against Nescac and NCAA teams....That is impressive for a team that has been struggling to score goals the past few years and especially early on this season.....
Yeah, the lack of an adjustment at half is not a good look for Chicago. Funnel the wings into the middle. They never did that.
Kind of bizarre, but as I've noted (parochially) some of these coaches seem incapable of adjusting their formation/style of play.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 01:06:50 PM
Jesus....Tufts has 21 Goals in their last 7 Games against Nescac and NCAA teams....That is impressive for a team that has been struggling to score goals the past few years and especially early on this season.....
That front five is clicking right now and I have a sneaky feeling we will be seeing a rematch of 2016 tomorrow...
Also, Tufts only has 4 Seniors on their roster with starting GK Mieth, starting RB Weatherbie, little used reserve Glover and starting CB Najjar.....They will have to be my preseason pick to win Nescac in2019 because besides a huge hole left in net with the loss of Mieth IMO the other 3 are replaceable right away with what they have on their bench. They could come back in 2019 with only 1 Frosh a GK and still have plenty of depth.....2020 will be another story as they will have a huge graduating class....Anyhow...on to the game....
As predicted absolutely no changes for Tufts starting lineup......
Mieth got away with one there...Rochester taking the wind first half.
Aroh got burned on a play with his lack of speed...I am telling you if you can draw him out of the middle of the field it will open things up bigtime...
Eisold with a huge block as Rojas pulled the trigger from the top of the 18 with Conway stranded on his line.
Great header from Braun off a nice serve from van Brewer. 1-0.
I am a bit disappointed in UR to start this match. They MUST wake up as they cannot allow Tufts to control midfield and frankly Tufts looks like they want it more....Braun scores off a corner with his head and that is why he is an AA. However, if he had any legit skill and touch he could have had maybe 2 more goals. The kid is a stud athlete and uses his body to his advantage BUT he is not the most skilled. You have to body him up on set pieces and time your jumps as other than set pieces Braun should be able to be neutralized by good defenses.
THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT.....Braun just fluffs a 1v1 with GK....should be 2-0.....nice counter by Tufts though
UR still right in this game. They must not concede another and get into halftime down 1-0 or try to get an equalizer. UR is plenty capable of finding a goal in this one but Ikeda has to be more active
What a counter by Tufts and a beautiful through ball by Tasker to Braun. That HAS to be buried! Also, great refereeing playing the advantage and allowing Tufts to continue its counter.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT.....Braun just fluffs a 1v1 with GK....should be 2-0.....nice counter by Tufts though
Yeah, goalie closed well, but frankly was dead to rights. Braun choked a bit there. Calvin would've buried that chance.
See Tufts pressure is forcing UR to play direct as they are rushing a bit. When I have seen UR they were moving the ball on the carpet and finding their wide guys on the touch as today so far it has been very direct and trying to play balls over the top. Will be interesting to see what UR does 2nd Half.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT.....Braun just fluffs a 1v1 with GK....should be 2-0.....
Yeah he blew that one. That looked like game right there.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:14:09 PM
Braun scores off a corner with his head and that is why he is an AA. However, if he had any legit skill and touch he could have had maybe 2 more goals. The kid is a stud athlete and uses his body to his advantage BUT he is not the most skilled. You have to body him up on set pieces and time your jumps as other than set pieces Braun should be able to be neutralized by good defenses.
Prior to Marcucci winning NESCAC PoY I remember hearing from someone that they thought Braun would win it and I thought "he had a good season but not sure about NESCAC PoY." Then he was named a 1st Team AA last night, which surprised me a bit. After all Santos scored the same number of goals (10) in the national title year playing out wide and he didn't even get a sniff of AA, let alone 1st Team. As for Braun, I thought he was in the running for AA but 3rd or maybe 2nd Team, certainly didn't think 1st Team. After all, he didn't even start the first four games of the year for Tufts — Jacobs got the nod initially — which I took to be Shapiro testing out different guys at CF not being confident of any one person starting there at the start of the season. Braun obviously won the job but I hardly thought that was a vote of confidence. Since starting though he has scored 9 goals so it's safe to say he's repaid Shapiro's faith.
Then again as far as AA forwards go, I can't really say who else besides the obvious names like Lopez/Koh/McCaw/Nick West that I'd choose over him. He has scored a number of big game-winners, more than many others, so he deserves the plaudits.
Just a quick aside, announcers talking about NESCAC and UAA being dominant in the Director's Cup standings. Which, of course, is an accurate statement.
Just noting that The Hop currently leads D3. :D
Tufts has dominated this half. The announcers mentioned that there have been 7 Jumbo subs this half...and without any real drop-off. That's insane depth.
Is Rochester typically a counter-attack squad? They've been moderately successful doing that.
I agree that Tufts is the better side so far... But not by all that much. Rochester picked up the intensity the last 20 minutes or so.
Announcer guy acting like a goalie, standing alone in his goal mouth, is being daring by catching the ball.
C'mon dude.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT.....Braun just fluffs a 1v1 with GK....should be 2-0.....
Yeah he blew that one. That looked like game right there.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:14:09 PM
Braun scores off a corner with his head and that is why he is an AA. However, if he had any legit skill and touch he could have had maybe 2 more goals. The kid is a stud athlete and uses his body to his advantage BUT he is not the most skilled. You have to body him up on set pieces and time your jumps as other than set pieces Braun should be able to be neutralized by good defenses.
Prior to Marcucci winning NESCAC PoY I remember hearing from someone that they thought Braun would win it and I thought "he had a good season but not sure about NESCAC PoY." Then he was named a 1st Team AA last night, which surprised me a bit. After all Santos scored the same number of goals (10) in the national title year playing out wide and he didn't even get a sniff of AA, let alone 1st Team. As for Braun, I thought he was in the running for AA but 3rd or maybe 2nd Team, certainly didn't think 1st Team. After all, he didn't even start the first four games of the year for Tufts — Jacobs got the nod initially — which I took to be Shapiro testing out different guys at CF not being confident of any one person starting there at the start of the season. Braun obviously won the job but I hardly thought that was a vote of confidence. Since starting though he has scored 9 goals so it's safe to say he's repaid Shapiro's faith.
Then again as far as AA forwards go, I can't really say who else besides the obvious names like Lopez/Koh/McCaw/Nick West that I'd choose over him. He has scored a number of big game-winners, more than many others, so he deserves the plaudits.
I usually break this out once a year but I do not think I have this season. This is a prime example of "Bloots the Diplomat".....All kidding aside you are exactly correct about Tufts depth and Jacobs/Braun and Shapiro not knowing what Braun would give him to start the season. Braun had horrific fitness last season and personally as I have said all year I am a Max Jacobs fan as a striker. He would be starting and scoring goals for most D3 teams up top.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 30, 2018, 02:35:34 PM
Announcer guy acting like a goalie, standing alone in his goal mouth, is being daring by catching the ball.
C'mon dude.
I will say both of them are doing very well today and are enjoyable to listen to which is a massive improvement from last season.
Tufts just looks a little more athletic and a little bigger and more physical. Doubt UR is used to not winning so many 50/50 balls. Just not the same overall firepower as the Jumbos.
Treverrow barely plays....probably could be at least 1st team all-conference if playing somewhere else.
For me Tasker and Rojas are as important or more so than Braun.
I'm pulling for UR but Calvin-Tufts is the far more dynamic (and interesting) final.
BTW, on that second great look off the counter that started with UR CB #27 playing a cross deep in his offensive end to a bad spot while knowing he was not back in case of a quick breakaway counter. He had not cleared out yet after a corner or free kick for UR.
After watching Tufts/Roch 1st half, does anyone beside me get the feeling that Calvin will win by 2-3 goals in the final?
Quote from: EB2319 on November 30, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
After watching Tufts/Roch 1st half, does anyone beside me get the feeling that Calvin will win by 2-3 goals in the final?
Wouldn't make that mistake. Tufts after all gritted out a 1-0 2OT result in the Final against Calvin in 2016...and I think most would say that Calvin had the better chances throughout the game.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 30, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
After watching Tufts/Roch 1st half, does anyone beside me get the feeling that Calvin will win by 2-3 goals in the final?
I will take any wager on that...name ur price
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 02:47:34 PM
Quote from: EB2319 on November 30, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
After watching Tufts/Roch 1st half, does anyone beside me get the feeling that Calvin will win by 2-3 goals in the final?
Wouldn't make that mistake. Tufts after all gritted out a 1-0 2OT result in the Final against Calvin in 2016...and I think most would say that Calvin had the better chances throughout the game.
Fair enough. But man, Calvin just seems to be playing as a cohesive unit.
Now Tufts looks VERY confident BUT teetering possibly on over confidence. UR has shown in this tournament that they can flip the switch 2nd Half and all they need is one goal....
I'd be shocked if Calvin beat Tufts by 3 and very surprised by 2 (unless an end of game thing where Tufts was pressing at the end to equalize). I would predict a 1 goal game either way. I'm always surprised, too, when Tufts is continually underestimated. They are much bigger (other than Calvin's two CBs who are relatively thin) than Calvin and with a ton of depth.
I don't think they would beat UR by 3 either.
Quote from: EB2319 on November 30, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
Fair enough. But man, Calvin just seems to be playing as a cohesive unit.
100%! They are clicking really well. But Tufts is like Amherst, they can impose their style on any team, even if it is more adventurous than the latter. Regardless, I don't think tomorrow's game will be as open and free-flowing.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:36:45 PM
I usually break this out once a year but I do not think I have this season. This is a prime example of "Bloots the Diplomat".....All kidding aside you are exactly correct about Tufts depth and Jacobs/Braun and Shapiro not knowing what Braun would give him to start the season. Braun had horrific fitness last season and personally as I have said all year I am a Max Jacobs fan as a striker. He would be starting and scoring goals for most D3 teams up top.
Haha I appreciate that, I think I have maybe been a bit more partisan this year (maybe just salty at times) so perhaps that explains why. But yeah, as much as I wouldn't have picked him a 1st Team AA he is now one and nobody can take that away from him (unless he hires the same law firm as my boy Bruce Poliquin in ME-2...kidding, he had his TRO denied and will probably lose again in court). Anyway, you can only beat what's in front of you and he has done that up to this point.
LOL....Western Maine actually elected a Democrat.....The world is an amazing place...anyhow
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:52:23 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 02:50:09 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:36:45 PM
I usually break this out once a year but I do not think I have this season. This is a prime example of "Bloots the Diplomat".....All kidding aside you are exactly correct about Tufts depth and Jacobs/Braun and Shapiro not knowing what Braun would give him to start the season. Braun had horrific fitness last season and personally as I have said all year I am a Max Jacobs fan as a striker. He would be starting and scoring goals for most D3 teams up top.
Haha I appreciate that, I think I have maybe been a bit more partisan this year (maybe just salty at times) so perhaps that explains why. But yeah, as much as I wouldn't have picked him a 1st Team AA he is now one and nobody can take that away from him (unless he hires the same law firm as my boy Bruce Poliquin in ME-2...kidding, he had his TRO denied and will probably lose again in court). Anyway, you can only beat what's in front of you and he has done that up to this point.
LOL....Western Maine actually elected a Democrat.....The world is an amazing place...anyhow
It had a Democrat for a decade-plus before Poliquin got in, but he is the first incumbent to lose ME-2 in more than 100 years. Pretty nuts.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:36:45 PM
I usually break this out once a year but I do not think I have this season. This is a prime example of "Bloots the Diplomat".....All kidding aside you are exactly correct about Tufts depth and Jacobs/Braun and Shapiro not knowing what Braun would give him to start the season. Braun had horrific fitness last season and personally as I have said all year I am a Max Jacobs fan as a striker. He would be starting and scoring goals for most D3 teams up top.
Haha I appreciate that, I think I have maybe been a bit more partisan this year (maybe just salty at times) so perhaps that explains why. But yeah, as much as I wouldn't have picked him a 1st Team AA he is now one and nobody can take that away from him (unless he hires the same law firm as my boy Bruce Poliquin in ME-2...kidding, he had his TRO denied and will probably lose again in court). Anyway, you can only beat what's in front of you and he has done that up to this point.
And Tasker gets the second...that should be game.
A perfect example. 27 for UR is very good but young and just got overpowered by Braun to create a wide open look for Tasker. That should have been nothing.
Tufts up 2-0 early 2nd Half as Tasker finishes an easy one. Tufts will certainly now sit in their 4-5-1 and be very compact. UR is going to have serious issues finding 2 Goals here. UR does not look sharp today. Passing is not crisp, guys do not look confident in what they are doing, they are not connecting and interchanging like they normally do and they are getting bodied all over the field. They have to find a goal somehow in the next 20 minutes while not conceding.
LOL...really?
Quote from: EB2319 on November 30, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
After watching Tufts/Roch 1st half, does anyone beside me get the feeling that Calvin will win by 2-3 goals in the final?
Quote from: oldonionbag on November 30, 2018, 03:02:11 PM
LOL...really?
How's the viewing party? Is BF/Nutmeg there? Tell him we say hello. ;)
How can you not like Van Brewer? I don't think I've ever seen him yell at the ref or go at people verbally.
Great finish by Lane (Leopold), that was nice.
Ikeda just rips Van Brewer's legs out from under him. Bit of a dirty foul but Ikeda is frustrated and Van Brewer will have his head on a swivel now. These are the types of fouls that should have happened in the beginning of the game to control midfield....
Lane makes a nifty cutback and beauty of a rip to make this a 3-0 game and finish off UR quite embarrassingly today....UR will be disappointed because they are better than this and are just not working now...
Starting CB Paoletta goes down....If he is out tomorrow that would be a huge loss....Does not look like anything serious but who knows
Tufts has controlled the midfield, showing better defensive organization and steel overall. Interestingly enough — while Tufts has a very fluid 4-1-4-1 with the two attacking CMs all over the field — the Tufts student newspaper pointed out that Tufts plays Van Brewer as the No. 8 going box-to-box and Rojas as the No. 10...I always have thought of them as both attacking but I would have thought as the more creative and smaller player Van Brewer would be the No. 10 and Rojas as the No. 8 but I will say I think Van Brewer has the superior workrate and puts himself about and maybe that is why he is the No. 8. Rojas is a great player who has shown brilliance in flashes, and has come on well this year, but I do not think he has maximized his potential. Maybe he will take it to another level next year.
On the screen comes Tufts assistant Ciuffetelli...who also happens to be my neighbor...wearing short sleeves...I guess he is enjoying the Carolina weather which is much warmer than cloudy and cold Beantown.
Well, kind of a letdown today after expecting two superb games.
Tomorrow is a massive one. Calvin is absolutely determined to get the title and Tufts is closing in on 3 titles in 5 years. Both have solidified their positions as two of the top three programs in the country currently.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 30, 2018, 03:22:04 PM
Well, kind of a letdown today after expecting two superb games.
Tomorrow is a massive one. Calvin is absolutely determined to get the title and Tufts is closing in on 3 titles in 5 years. Both have solidified their positions as two of the top three programs in the country currently.
I was happy that another UAA made the Final 4 — unfortunately the conference remains winless in Final 4 games — but I
really wanted to see a Tufts-Messiah Final 4...ah well, c'est la vie.
UR gets one back off a flick from a corner...Nice finish...3-1 19 minutes left...Tufts has its whole bench in right now...Does Shapiro get his starters back in? Plenty of time here
Rochester gets one back, nice flick on and Miller finishes well off his face, but too little too late. Perhaps Tufts might not be as impenetrable from set pieces as we thought.
Two (seemingly) preventable Tufts goals are the difference between the two teams...that's a shame for Rochester. Ikeda also skied a free kick from 25 yards when it was scoreless. That said, Tufts has been the better side.
Yup but UR all of a sudden is starting to play like I thought they would....Where was this intensity in the 1st Half???
Eisold with an unreal team save off of Lane's rocket which beat Conway...wow! Has to be said that Lane had WAY too much space at the top of the box...I guarantee Tufts would not have given UR that much space in the box.
Jacobs had apparently made it 4-1 but someone was called for offside. Tufts could have five or six.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 03:39:19 PM
Eisold with an unreal team save off of Lane's rocket which beat Conway...wow! Has to be said that Lane had WAY too much space at the top of the box...I guarantee Tufts would not have given UR that much space in the box.
Jacobs had apparently made it 4-1 but someone was called for offside. Tufts could have five or six.
Ya Jacobs with a beautiful finish but his clueless teammate ran in front of the shot and was rightly called offside as he involved himself in the play for no reason and interfered with the GK....Lane's rip was with the outside of his right foot and was dipping and hit with pace...Nice stuff...
Not me...wish I was! haha
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 30, 2018, 03:22:04 PM
Well, kind of a letdown today after expecting two superb games.
Tomorrow is a massive one. Calvin is absolutely determined to get the title and Tufts is closing in on 3 titles in 5 years. Both have solidified their positions as two of the top three programs in the country currently.
I was happy that another UAA made the Final 4 — unfortunately the conference remains winless in Final 4 games — but I really wanted to see a Tufts-Messiah Final 4...ah well, c'est la vie.
Would love to see that also... but somehow every year something happens to prevent it....
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 03:15:33 PM
Starting CB Paoletta goes down....If he is out tomorrow that would be a huge loss....Does not look like anything serious but who knows
Paoletta on crutches at the end of the game. He is definitely Tufts' defensive leader and his absence could well be the difference. Who replaced Paoletta for the last 20+ minutes?
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 03:24:16 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 30, 2018, 03:22:04 PM
Well, kind of a letdown today after expecting two superb games.
Tomorrow is a massive one. Calvin is absolutely determined to get the title and Tufts is closing in on 3 titles in 5 years. Both have solidified their positions as two of the top three programs in the country currently.
I was happy that another UAA made the Final 4 — unfortunately the conference remains winless in Final 4 games — but I really wanted to see a Tufts-Messiah Final 4...ah well, c'est la vie.
I was happy also and thought Chicago would do well.... I guess not and I don't hear much from the UAA folks who were all over the place a few days ago. It's a good conference that still has something to prove...
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 30, 2018, 03:56:30 PM
Paoletta on crutches at the end of the game. He is definitely Tufts' defensive leader and his absence could well be the difference. Who replaced Paoletta for the last 20+ minutes?
FY Will Raphael.
Another n00b question from someone who knows the game but didn't play: does someone being on crutches pretty much mean they're "done"? Or is it precautionary? I guess it all depends on who, and what the injury is, but curious to hear perspectives.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 30, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
I was happy also and thought Chicago would do well.... I guess not and I don't hear much from the UAA folks who where all over the place a few days ago. It's a good conference that still has something to prove...
Yeah, I still believe the UAA needs to win the big one before any talk of it being superior can be taken seriously.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 30, 2018, 03:56:30 PM
Paoletta on crutches at the end of the game. He is definitely Tufts' defensive leader and his absence could well be the difference. Who replaced Paoletta for the last 20+ minutes?
FY Will Raphael.
Another n00b question from someone who knows the game but didn't play: does someone being on crutches pretty much mean they're "done"? Or is it precautionary? I guess it all depends on who, and what the injury is, but curious to hear perspectives.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 30, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
I was happy also and thought Chicago would do well.... I guess not and I don't hear much from the UAA folks who where all over the place a few days ago. It's a good conference that still has something to prove...
Yeah, I still believe the UAA needs to win the big one before any talk of it being superior can be taken seriously.
Bloots, at this point it's speculation.... only The Shadow really knows ;)
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:16:15 PM
THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKIN ABOUT.....Braun just fluffs a 1v1 with GK....should be 2-0.....
Yeah he blew that one. That looked like game right there.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 02:14:09 PM
Braun scores off a corner with his head and that is why he is an AA. However, if he had any legit skill and touch he could have had maybe 2 more goals. The kid is a stud athlete and uses his body to his advantage BUT he is not the most skilled. You have to body him up on set pieces and time your jumps as other than set pieces Braun should be able to be neutralized by good defenses.
Prior to Marcucci winning NESCAC PoY I remember hearing from someone that they thought Braun would win it and I thought "he had a good season but not sure about NESCAC PoY." Then he was named a 1st Team AA last night, which surprised me a bit. After all Santos scored the same number of goals (10) in the national title year playing out wide and he didn't even get a sniff of AA, let alone 1st Team. As for Braun, I thought he was in the running for AA but 3rd or maybe 2nd Team, certainly didn't think 1st Team. After all, he didn't even start the first four games of the year for Tufts — Jacobs got the nod initially — which I took to be Shapiro testing out different guys at CF not being confident of any one person starting there at the start of the season. Braun obviously won the job but I hardly thought that was a vote of confidence. Since starting though he has scored 9 goals so it's safe to say he's repaid Shapiro's faith.
Then again as far as AA forwards go, I can't really say who else besides the obvious names like Lopez/Koh/McCaw/Nick West that I'd choose over him. He has scored a number of big game-winners, more than many others, so he deserves the plaudits.
Yeah, I mentioned in an earlier post that I thought that Niang should have been NESCAC POY, and in my opinion is more deserving than Braun for 1st team AA consideration. But, to me, it looks like the AA selections favor players and teams who made the NCAA tournament. That may not in fact be true, but it kinda looks that way...
I'm really excited to watch the Braun V. Vegter physical match-up tomorrow.
Today, I saw Vegter get the better of 3 time AA, Lopez in physical match-ups on at least 3 occasions. Lopez is no Braun, but he is quite a sizeable forward himself.
On the other hand, today, I saw Braun score 1 off a header and absolutely manhandle UR's left back to lead to the second goal. I obviously can't say for sure, but something tells me if Vegter was marking Braun on that corner, he might not have gotten a clear shot off. Further yet, it's obviously personal opinion, but I'm quite confidant that the second goal would not have happened if that was Braun v. Vegter.
Am at all games today. Calvin big, strong, especially defenders, quick and skilled, pressure the ball, more cohesive today. Tufts unselfish, finish well, skilled, perhaps honed by tough schedule. UR flat today. Did not play their best game for sure. Tomorrow will be highly competitive, Calvin really hungry for a title.
First half of first game today really fun to watch as has been pointed out.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 30, 2018, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 30, 2018, 03:56:30 PM
Paoletta on crutches at the end of the game. He is definitely Tufts' defensive leader and his absence could well be the difference. Who replaced Paoletta for the last 20+ minutes?
FY Will Raphael.
Another n00b question from someone who knows the game but didn't play: does someone being on crutches pretty much mean they're "done"? Or is it precautionary? I guess it all depends on who, and what the injury is, but curious to hear perspectives.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on November 30, 2018, 03:58:43 PM
I've NEVER seen a situation where a player needs crutches and then turns around and plays the very next day. I've seen a Saturday injury that turned out to me nothing and a guy can play next Tues/Weds. But less than 24 hours later?
Nah.
I was happy also and thought Chicago would do well.... I guess not and I don't hear much from the UAA folks who where all over the place a few days ago. It's a good conference that still has something to prove...
Yeah, I still believe the UAA needs to win the big one before any talk of it being superior can be taken seriously.
Admittedly I haven't been paying attention as closely the last couple of weeks....but....the UAA folks were talking all over the place within the past few days and now are oddly silent???
I don't recall any UAA fans bragging obnoxiously, or unabashedly pushing certain players for AA slots, or commenting on AA players from other teams that they know little about, etc, etc. For the most part, at least as a correlate to their success and high profile, there are very few UAA posters...like I can't recall a single one for Emory or NYU or CMU...and only one from Rochester who just posted for the first time in the last few days.
The UAA is a great conference. They don't have to win a title to get that designation. Two teams in the final four two years in a row speaks for itself. The criticism used to be that the UAA couldn't get any teams past the Sweet 16....now the final four isn't good enough. Sure, titles count, and every program wants one, but given that only one team per year can win one, I don't think a title is required to be considered a top-tier conference or program. Losing in OT or PKs can be twisted into something that actually sounds substantial?
There's plenty of room in the world for both the NESCAC and UAA to be viewed as very attractive.
And before we start proclaiming what tomorrow's result means for the annals of history (and personal egos), can we agree that what both of these programs -- Calvin and Tufts -- have done over the past handful of years is pretty stunning. Both have marched through the NCAA tourney yet again, and today both dismantled very worthy semifinal opponents.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 30, 2018, 06:30:51 PM
Admittedly I haven't been paying attention as closely the last couple of weeks....but....the UAA folks were talking all over the place within the past few days and now are oddly silent???
I don't recall any UAA fans bragging obnoxiously, or unabashedly pushing certain players for AA slots, or commenting on AA players from other teams that they know little about, etc, etc. For the most part, at least as a correlate to their success and high profile, there are very few UAA posters...like I can't recall a single one for Emory or NYU or CMU...and only one from Rochester who just posted for the first time in the last few days.
The UAA is a great conference. They don't have to win a title to get that designation. Two teams in the final four two years in a row speaks for itself. The criticism used to be that the UAA couldn't get any teams past the Sweet 16....now the final four isn't good enough. Sure, titles count, and every program wants one, but given that only one team per year can win one, I don't think a title is required to be considered a top-tier conference or program. Losing in OT or PKs can be twisted into something that actually sounds substantial?
There's plenty of room in the world for both the NESCAC and UAA to be viewed as very attractive.
And before we start proclaiming what tomorrow's result means for the annals of history (and personal egos), can we agree that what both of these programs -- Calvin and Tufts -- have done over the past handful of years is pretty stunning. Both have marched through the NCAA tourney yet again, and today both dismantled very worthy semifinal opponents.
Good post Mr. Newman...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 30, 2018, 06:30:51 PM
Admittedly I haven't been paying attention as closely the last couple of weeks....but....the UAA folks were talking all over the place within the past few days and now are oddly silent???
I don't recall any UAA fans bragging obnoxiously, or unabashedly pushing certain players for AA slots, or commenting on AA players from other teams that they know little about, etc, etc. For the most part, at least as a correlate to their success and high profile, there are very few UAA posters...like I can't recall a single one for Emory or NYU or CMU...and only one from Rochester who just posted for the first time in the last few days.
The UAA is a great conference. They don't have to win a title to get that designation. Two teams in the final four two years in a row speaks for itself. The criticism used to be that the UAA couldn't get any teams past the Sweet 16....now the final four isn't good enough. Sure, titles count, and every program wants one, but given that only one team per year can win one, I don't think a title is required to be considered a top-tier conference or program. Losing in OT or PKs can be twisted into something that actually sounds substantial?
There's plenty of room in the world for both the NESCAC and UAA to be viewed as very attractive.
And before we start proclaiming what tomorrow's result means for the annals of history (and personal egos), can we agree that what both of these programs -- Calvin and Tufts -- have done over the past handful of years is pretty stunning. Both have marched through the NCAA tourney yet again, and today both dismantled very worthy semifinal opponents.
Brother Flounder may be referring to me. As for where I've been: The second semifinal ended about four hours ago, and since then I've been (1) doing regular life things, like driving home from work, and (2) watching WashU's women in their semifinal, which sadly they also lost. (It's been a bad day for the UAA.) So my apologies if I didn't post quickly enough.
Anyway, the point that I made back in Reply #509 was that "If the question is which has been the top conference over the last two years, which is the way that NESoccerFan posed it, then I think it's obvious that it's the UAA, even if neither Chicago or Rochester wins the tournament. Over the last two years, the UAA has claimed seven Elite Eight spots out of a total of 16 available, and four Final Four spots out of a total of eight available. In contrast, the NESCAC has claimed only two Elite Eight spots and one Final Four spot." Now we know that in fact, neither Chicago nor Rochester will win the tournament, but as I said at the time, I felt that the UAA's advantage was significant enough that it would hold even if a UAA team did not win the tournament. In the event that Calvin wins tomorrow, I do think it would be particularly strange to argue that the UAA wasn't the strongest league over the last two years because Messiah and Calvin won the championships in those years.
OTOH, if the question is which league has been stronger over a longer period of time, then obviously the UAA's case weakens and the NESCAC's strengthens. But that wasn't the question I addressed.
Now I'm off to watch the other women's semifinal, in which I'm rooting for the NESCAC team, since two of the Williams players went to my son's high school and I know their parents. Go Ephs!
Quote from: Buck O. on November 30, 2018, 08:10:00 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 30, 2018, 06:30:51 PM
Admittedly I haven't been paying attention as closely the last couple of weeks....but....the UAA folks were talking all over the place within the past few days and now are oddly silent???
I don't recall any UAA fans bragging obnoxiously, or unabashedly pushing certain players for AA slots, or commenting on AA players from other teams that they know little about, etc, etc. For the most part, at least as a correlate to their success and high profile, there are very few UAA posters...like I can't recall a single one for Emory or NYU or CMU...and only one from Rochester who just posted for the first time in the last few days.
The UAA is a great conference. They don't have to win a title to get that designation. Two teams in the final four two years in a row speaks for itself. The criticism used to be that the UAA couldn't get any teams past the Sweet 16....now the final four isn't good enough. Sure, titles count, and every program wants one, but given that only one team per year can win one, I don't think a title is required to be considered a top-tier conference or program. Losing in OT or PKs can be twisted into something that actually sounds substantial?
There's plenty of room in the world for both the NESCAC and UAA to be viewed as very attractive.
And before we start proclaiming what tomorrow's result means for the annals of history (and personal egos), can we agree that what both of these programs -- Calvin and Tufts -- have done over the past handful of years is pretty stunning. Both have marched through the NCAA tourney yet again, and today both dismantled very worthy semifinal opponents.
Brother Flounder may be referring to me. As for where I've been: The second semifinal ended about four hours ago, and since then I've been (1) doing regular life things, like driving home from work, and (2) watching WashU's women in their semifinal, which sadly they also lost. (It's been a bad day for the UAA.) So my apologies if I didn't post quickly enough.
Anyway, the point that I made back in Reply #509 was that "If the question is which has been the top conference over the last two years, which is the way that NESoccerFan posed it, then I think it's obvious that it's the UAA, even if neither Chicago or Rochester wins the tournament. Over the last two years, the UAA has claimed seven Elite Eight spots out of a total of 16 available, and four Final Four spots out of a total of eight available. In contrast, the NESCAC has claimed only two Elite Eight spots and one Final Four spot." Now we know that in fact, neither Chicago nor Rochester will win the tournament, but as I said at the time, I felt that the UAA's advantage was significant enough that it would hold even if a UAA team did not win the tournament. In the event that Calvin wins tomorrow, I do think it would be particularly strange to argue that the UAA wasn't the strongest league over the last two years because Messiah and Calvin won the championships in those years.
OTOH, if the question is which league has been stronger over a longer period of time, then obviously the UAA's case weakens and the NESCAC's strengthens. But that wasn't the question I addressed.
Now I'm off to watch the other women's semifinal, in which I'm rooting for the NESCAC team, since two of the Williams players went to my son's high school and I know their parents. Go Ephs!
I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular...and the UAA is an excellent conference with great results...I actually like the Maroons and was rooting for them. They'd make a great story winning the Championship.... It's just people were posting like it was a given that the UAA were going to easily win the cahampionship. As for tomorrow it's a great match up that either team could win...
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 30, 2018, 02:30:36 PM
Just a quick aside, announcers talking about NESCAC and UAA being dominant in the Director's Cup standings. Which, of course, is an accurate statement.
Just noting that The Hop currently leads D3. :Did
Don't get too excited yet, Hop92, Williams wins the Director's Cup every year!
In regards to the other matches going on in Greensboro, the women's final is an all-NESCAC affair...Williams won the regular season game but Middlebury won the NESCAC Final and the conference title...should be a good'un.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 30, 2018, 10:22:09 PM
Williams wins the Director's Cup every year!
My favorite UAA team
almost got Williams two years, holding the lead until the final results, but alas...
Williams may never be unseated from the Director's Cup again.
WUPHF: Scoring criteria for Directors's Cup has been modified to accommodate sponsor's wish that different colleges win it. Specifically, both men and women soccer and basketball are mandatory numbers. Concern is lack of advertising impact from sole dominance. Award less relevant now than ever before. What is important are academics, participation, fun. Already visible are a number of colleges with limited resources, various cultures, and different best interests moving to fewer and major/minor sports simply to preserve some options and enrollment marketing presence.
WashU does a great job with what it chooses to do well, and doesn't need sking, wrestling, lacrosse, etc. or focus on chasing Directors's Cup.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on November 30, 2018, 03:56:30 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 30, 2018, 03:15:33 PM
Starting CB Paoletta goes down....If he is out tomorrow that would be a huge loss....Does not look like anything serious but who knows
Paoletta on crutches at the end of the game. He is definitely Tufts' defensive leader and his absence could well be the difference. Who replaced Paoletta for the last 20+ minutes?
This IS NOT good news for Tufts....That means Paoletta is out and he is Tufts starting CB and their best defender. He allows for Najjar and Aroh to play CB and hold respectively because his pace and IQ make up for their lack of pace. Najjar and Aroh are real solid in the air but Paoletta allows for them to be a step slow because he can clean up their mistakes. Overstatement? We will see.......Now does Shapiro stick a Frosh at CB who is a good player BUT has never started a game and certainly has not played in a game like this. Whoever starts is going to have to deal with Calvin's sensational striker and that will not be easy. This could turn the game or in Vegas speak this injury would significantly shift the line towards Calvin. Shapiro should probably go with tested veteran Tanner Jameson who has speed and has played CB before he just is not the toughest kid but with Aroh and Najjar it should be ok. If he does start the Frosh that would make 2 Frosh starting on a backline in a NCAA Final. Certainly not unheard of but pretty rare..I look for Calvin to take advantage of this opportunity especially if they play like they did yesterday.
Well scratch all that...Paoletta is in the starting lineup so obviously it was not serious. Maybe the crutches were cautionary...who knows...
Tufts brings the third kit out...maybe they were reading the boards.
Wowzah...Tufts out front less than a minute in. Aroh, deflected, 1-0.
Might this be the second edition of "Tufts holding midfielder's first goal of the season is the winner in national championship game against Calvin"?
Tufts goes up 1-0 on a deflected shot...Calvin MUST clear that ball out BUT with these conditions and the ref looking like he will let both teams play there could be some goals today...
Wooooow...Tasker in behind and beats the 'keeper but the flag is up. Tufts out way more aggressive than Calvin in these first couple minutes. The Knights can't get near the ball.
Tasker well onside for a second chance...
Najjar almost whiffs but Calvin cannot capitalize....He is shaky back there im tellin u....We got a nice physical battle in the rain today
Calvin's RB certainly got the scouting report on Tasker as he stuffs him cutting inside with the ball at his feet. He is sittin on Tasker's Right foot...I like it
Calvin scored against Calvin...heh.
Calvin actually has played well since going down and has created some chances...I could see them getting back into this.
Calvin starting to control possession midway thru this Half BUT THEY MUST attack faster before Tufts can get into its 4-5-1....They are allowing Tufts to get set on defense..
Announcers pick up on the fact that Calvin is constantly attacking Tufts right side defensively. They have realized an advantage they think they have against Tufts RB Weatherbie and CB Najjar....Nice pick up
Lane blows a big chance for 2-0.
...less than a minute later, he makes it 2-0 with a nice header off a long throw by Daly.
Tufts is really busting ass pressing Calvin and forcing giveaway's....Tufts gets a goal off a long throw and easy header finish...A ton of ball watching on that play and that ball has to be cleared...
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2018, 02:34:46 PM
Tufts brings the third kit out...maybe they were reading the boards.
Glad I brought up the topic. For the record, I think these are easily the Jumbos' best unis!
The players foot looked completely over the line on the throw in, but no call from the ref. Still, Calvin's defense does not look up to dealing with Tufts' physicality.
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2018, 03:07:35 PM
Tufts is really busting ass pressing Calvin and forcing giveaway's....Tufts gets a goal off a long throw and easy header finish...A ton of ball watching on that play and that ball has to be cleared...
Agree on needing to clear that ball, but the goal should not have counted. The player throwing in the ball has his foot over the line.
2-0 Tufts Halftime.....Calvin not panicking which I like....They have the talent to get two goals and get back into this match in the 2nd Half...BUT they are running into a buzzsaw that most Nescac teams have when playing Tufts...They are not playing fast enough in attack when they get the ball. They have to ping a few passes and then right out wide and service in the box..Right now Tufts has plenty of time to set up in their 4-5-1 and just absorb pressure...Calvin will not beat them in the air and if they allow them to set defensively it is extremely hard to break Tufts down...Calvin not quite used to the physicality of Tufts and the depth is a big issue..Tufts has gone about 6-7 deep and Calvin maybe 3-4....Still I give Calvin a solid chance especially if they can get an early goal 2nd Half...Now we will see what Calvin's Head Coach does......
LOL. I'm cheering for Calvin, but really? When was the last time you saw a call on a throw over the line? That's the least of Calvin's problems. They are just getting beat, plain and simple. Even Vegter has looked shaky a couple of times (as Tasker had him beat if he had only stayed on his feet) and a few giveaways. This to me looks like a very good mid major D1 team that is too big, fast, and physical for maybe the best D3 team in the country.
Not over yet....let's see if Souders has some more motivational magic.
You know, all year I opined that Tufts was better than everyone else but not blowing me away. They have certainly done the latter in the tournament this year. They've scored 12 goals since the Sweet 16 and have only conceded one. I think PaulNewman hit it on the head saying that they look like a decent D1 team -- they are big, fast, and physical, and while they might not have the same depth or size/speed/physicality/athleticism as a top D1 team across the board, they do look like they could hold their own. Regardless, they look like they're equal with Calvin in terms of skill and on another level in those aforementioned categories.
Looked a soft PK to me...but Calvin gets one back with 40 left. This has suddenly gotten interesting.
Really surprised Paoletta made such a stupid foul to basically gift Calvin right back into this game....THAT COULD COST TUFTS......Calvin has 40 minutes to get an equalizer....Paoletta has such a high soccer IQ and that was a bonehead play...No need to foul as Meith was coming to cut it off and if the kid scores he scores but give Meith a chance to make the save..Do not give Calvin a free PK...
Really impressed with Tufts pressing today..They are really bothering Calvin defenders which is what Chicago should have been doing. Easier said than done because Tufts can afford to bust ass all game with such a deep bench.
Calvin getting a few half-chances together and Tufts just about gets away with it...this really looks to be interesting.
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2018, 04:03:04 PM
Calvin getting a few half-chances together and Tufts just about gets away with it...this really looks to be interesting.
Yup...20 minutes left and Tufts will sit in a compact shell and try to hold on and absorb pressure...Shapiro puts in Jared Glover?? A NC kid and also a couple Frosh to give them a run but jeez one mistake and this game is even....
Ref has to get aware that Tufts is really burning seconds on every stoppage....
Tufts juuuuuuust starting to creak defensively...
That being said, Najjar has played one of his best games for Tufts today...been at the right place sweeping things up and hasn't made any bad giveaways that I've seen.
Najjar has been solid today...I like how Shapiro moved Tasker to the right side of the field midway thru the 1st Half to better utilize him against Calvin's weaker wingback the LB as the RB was eating Tasker up early in the game...Good move
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2018, 04:10:22 PM
Tufts juuuuuuust starting to creak defensively...
Tufts does seem to be half a step slower than they were in the first half, which is also reducing the risk that Calvin will be caught on the counter.
As I say that Tasker moves back to the left side of the field....Tough conditions though which could help get Calvin that equalizing goal on a mistake
This is gonna be a fun last five minutes.
3 minutes left....Any guesses on how many laps Mieth does around the field after the final whistle?
And that is ballgame...congrats to the Jumbos once again. 3 titles in 5 years is impressive, and the way they saw the game out today after dominating the first half was impressive.
Quote from: Buck O. on December 01, 2018, 03:13:49 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2018, 02:34:46 PM
Tufts brings the third kit out...maybe they were reading the boards.
Glad I brought up the topic. For the record, I think these are easily the Jumbos' best unis!
Yep, wonderful uniforms!
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2018, 04:29:56 PM
And that is ballgame...congrats to the Jumbos once again. 3 titles in 5 years is impressive, and the way they saw the game out today after dominating the first half was impressive.
Great fought battle. Two excellent teams. Calvin brought the heat the second half. The Jumbos bent a little but didn't break. Congrats to both teams, and to Coach Shapiro...
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 01, 2018, 04:16:44 PM
As I say that Tasker moves back to the left side of the field....Tough conditions though which could help get Calvin that equalizing goal on a mistake
LaPaz, your analysis was spot on during the whole game...
One common theme from (a number of) Tufts' NCAA games these last few years is the Jumbos getting goals at the end and (particularly) at the beginning of games. Early goals have been a thing going as far back as "Ye Olde Giant Slayer Goal," to the OWU semi, to this year's Montclair game, to both the semis and finals this year, and late (2OT) goals have seen them through against Kenyon and Calvin in 2016. Either way, they've been ON at both the beginning and end of games and it's paid off. That is the sign of a well-coached team with the right mentality.
Fun fact: In the last five years, Tufts has trailed just three times in NCAA action (four times if you count last year's sudden-death loss): all were in 2015 against Montclair State and Kenyon (twice).
Quote from: blooter442 on December 01, 2018, 04:41:52 PM
One common theme from (a number of) Tufts' NCAA games these last few years is the Jumbos getting goals at the end and (particularly) at the beginning of games. Early goals have been a thing going as far back as "Ye Olde Giant Slayer Goal," to the OWU semi, to this year's Montclair game, to both the semis and finals this year, and late (2OT) goals have seen them through against Kenyon and Calvin in 2016. Either way, they've been ON at both the beginning and end of games and it's paid off. That is the sign of a well-coached team with the right mentality.
Fun fact: In the last five years, Tufts has trailed just three times in NCAA action (four times if you count last year's sudden-death loss): all were in 2015 against Montclair State and Kenyon (twice).
And what about winning titles after losing early in the NESCAC tourney.... there is a theme there... does the rest help?
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 01, 2018, 04:54:50 PM
And what about winning titles after losing early in the NESCAC tourney.... there is a theme there... does the rest help?
Eh, I think it might help -- certainly doesn't hurt -- but they do get some rest during Thanksgiving if I am not mistaken (which I would think to be more impactful for the semis and Final)? Either way, you gotta get through those first two weekends, so, yes, in that regard I think it helps, but might be negligible regarding semis and the Final. Again, certainly doesn't hurt!
Gutted for my alma mater. :'( :'( It takes a combination of a skilled team and a little luck/good bounces to win a national championship in any "one and done" tournament.
Runners-up in '09, '11, '16, and '18, and semi-finalists in '15. At some point, they have to break through, right??
Thanks to the senior class. Time for the next group to step up, but the Knights are going to miss Vegter, McCaw, Witte, and Alcrecht especially from this great senior class.
Great press conference. Candor from Souders that being the bridesmaid isn't fun, but that he was proud of his team. And the Tufts presser features a nice (impromptu) monologue from Weatherbie (starting around 20:05) about how Shapiro transforms players and how instrumental he is in his team's success. He's bang on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_G8_-mlCmk&feature=youtu.be
TUFTS ARE THE KINGS OF COLEGE SOCCER.
IT IS UNDISPUTED.
IT NEEDS NO EXPLANATION.
As for Shapiro, Great Generals know how to build Great Armies.
I just had time to watch the last part as I'll watch it all later on but the last 10 seconds were hilarious. I don't think they thought the microphone was picking up what they said but Someone goes " that was nice just freelancing" to Weatherbie...then Weatherbie goes "aiight let's get outta here" so they all stand up to leave and Mieth is like umm here let me just ahh grab this umm trophy all nonchalantly...picks it up like he's gonna make out with it and then they all disappear...IDK that was kinda funny.
Just hoping Mr. Right would be gracious enough to congratulate Tufts after hating on them/shorting them all season. Probably the same guy who shorted Apple and Amazon. Eventually you'll be right I guess. See you next year my man!
Thanks to everyone who watched our broadcast of all of the games this weekend... Really enjoyed calling all these exciting games for the third year in a row alongside Dave
Quote from: BetaBob on December 02, 2018, 12:42:59 AM
Just hoping Mr. Right would be gracious enough to congratulate Tufts after hating on them/shorting them all season. Probably the same guy who shorted Apple and Amazon. Eventually you'll be right I guess. See you next year my man!
You are right I did forget to congratulate Tufts.....I can promise you I am not a Tufts hater and I really do not think I was "hating" on them all season. We can agree to disagree on that. Did I short them? YES...I have no problem admitting that and also no problem saying I WAS WRONG...In my pre-season predictions I picked them to finish #2 behind Amherst in Nescac because I thought they had lost a monster Senior class with some glue guys that I did not think were easily replaceable right away. I was proved wrong. I must admit ever since the Bowdoin game Tufts has been scoring goals at an impressive clip as they were clicking in attack all November. However, up until mid-October they were still really struggling to find the back of the net against strong Nescac defenses that were sitting deep and compact. They had something like 7 Goals in 7 Nescac games until they moseyed out to Hartford and walloped Trinity 6-0 and then the floodgates opened as something obviously clicked because ever since that game they have been finishing with precision. Including the Trinity match they have scored multiple goals in 7 of their last 9 matches against Nescac and NCAA competition. No cupcakes..Colby held them 0-0 and advanced on PK's in the Nescac Tournament and Stevens held them scoreless until the 80th minute. So you have to understand that based on the past few seasons and up until the middle of October I saw a team that was still struggling to score goals. That is why I "shorted" them. I thought they would get knocked out in the Sweet 16 / Elite 8 again this year and replicate their 2017 staggering NCAA tournament record 328 minutes of scoreless soccer.
Was I more critical of Tufts than others? Yes maybe...I think it just really started to piss me off in late September. Tufts was not scoring goals but they were clearly the most talented and dominant team in Nescac/New England BUT they were still sticking to their guns and playing in that 4-2-3-1 and playing VERY conservatively IMO. We can disagree on that if you want BUT IMO they had WAY TO MUCH TALENT to play in that system and use the same tactics they were using in 2016 with this group of players. 2018 Tufts was more talented than 2016 Tufts yet they were playing the same style. I wanted to see them open it up on opponents and come out of their "shell" more. They had way to much talent to hold with 6 and attack with 4 or sometimes 5. I thought it was ridiculous not to play a free flowing all out attacking style like Pep because they had the talent to do it against other Nescac teams. That is what had irked me but that's me and we can agree to disagree.
I know how good of a Coach Shapiro is and I say it all the time that guys get to this program and continue to improve their play where in other programs guys seem to flatline. I am positive next year we will see marked improvement and significant contributions from guys that did not see much of the field this year. That is a testament to how good of a Head Coach Shapiro is. On the topic of Shapiro it is interesting as unlike most Head Coaches he seems very content where he is in life. 3 NCAA Titles in 5 years would get you a ton of interviews at D1 schools. I guess I am just used to Head Coaches that are always looking for the next career move and I am actually saying it is quite refreshing to see a Head Coach be so content in his situation. It is really old school because you would see a ton of this in the 1970's/80's but it is pretty rare these days. Maybe he does not want to Coach in D1 and deal with all the headaches, all the recruiting, etc etc. He has had his fill at Georgetown and others. Maybe he knows winning titles like this in D1 would be almost impossible unless he were to end up at a top level ACC/Big 10 school.
As far as BetaBob....Where were you all season? Obviously, you were reading my work but failing to throw yourself into the mixer. I would not care if you are a Jumbo partisan. Why not log in and give it to me and critique my work each week? Give us your opinions and evals....Instead you decide to read my work all year and then throw a cheap shot to my gut when I am not looking. That's fine to each his own.....
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
Mr. Right appreciate you admitting your mistake. We certainly appreciated your bulletin board material. I think your criticism of Tufts for being defensive misses you point a little bit. The reality is this team is as offensive as the 2014 group but other teams have changed in response to our success. Happens when you win 3 in 5. When teams come out with the entire intention of playing for a draw it is going to be tough to score a bunch of goals. With the exception of Trinity every team in this conference is well-organized, athletic and tough to break down. But despite that tufts was only shut out twice all year.
I think honestly the source of most of the animosity on the part of people associated with Tufts comes from your individual assessments which often are completely wide of the mark. Any time you called someone on the team soft you were wrong, just ask Calvin or Amherst if TVB was soft.
FWIW, I think this team was the best Tufts team yet, in terms of record (obviously), talent, and depth. 2016 was a scrappy group that as Shapiro said was incredibly comfortable in tight situations, but most will admit didn't play the best soccer. 2014 had some nice players like Santos, Brown, and Hoppenot but this year's team had Braun (who had a very good year despite my comments about his 1st Team AA Selection), Tasker, Lane, Rojas, and Van Brewer...I also thought Tasker should have been an AA. And even with d4's point about teams setting up to play for the draw, Tufts scored 13 in 5 games this NCAA run (2.6/game) as opposed to 14 in 6 in 2014 (2.3/game). More goals per game during the NCAA run despite teams parking buses...that speaks to how good this year's team was.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 02, 2018, 10:17:28 AM
Mr. Right appreciate you admitting your mistake. We certainly appreciated your bulletin board material. I think your criticism of Tufts for being defensive misses you point a little bit. The reality is this team is as offensive as the 2014 group but other teams have changed in response to our success. Happens when you win 3 in 5. When teams come out with the entire intention of playing for a draw it is going to be tough to score a bunch of goals. With the exception of Trinity every team in this conference is well-organized, athletic and tough to break down. But despite that tufts was only shut out twice all year.
I think honestly the source of most of the animosity on the part of people associated with Tufts comes from your individual assessments which often are completely wide of the mark. Any time you called someone on the team soft you were wrong, just ask Calvin or Amherst if TVB was soft.
I actually just stated teams were coming out in Nescac and playing defensive and yes I understand it is hard to break them down. I am not talking about goals I am talking about system of play. However, my point was if they could not break them down in Nescac how were they going to break down teams in he NCAA's that would be more talented and still playing defensive. My criticism was the system of play and tactics on Tufts part in the beginning of the year. I just thought it would be nice to see such a talented team come out and play attacking soccer and go all out. Attack with your wingbacks and sit with Aroh, Najjar and Paoletta like Man City. Instead we got a team did not want to give up the first goal and played to conservative with the talent they had. I just happened to think it made for more unnecessary ugly Nescac soccer games.
I honestly do not think my individual assessments were "wide of the mark"....I can admit when I am wrong....TVB did show in the Final 4 especially against Calvin he was willing to get his nose stuck in there. What else....Is Aroh not slow? Does Najjar not give the ball away more than he should? Does Tasker now have a left foot? Surely I am wrong sometimes on individual assessments as everyone is BUT do some of these players not have weaknesses? Is Braun now the most technical striker in D3? .....You people do forget I also praise them a ton as well....Tasker's speed....Braun's raw athleticism....Shapiro's ability to improve players...Weatherbie's guts....Paoletta's technique/Soccer IQ...On and on....
See and thats my point. First off, Calvin is one of the fastest guys on the team at top speed and is an absurd athlete for the d3 level. And tasker scored a goal with his left foot Friday so it must be alright.
Braun's technique... actually you're spot on with that.
And you're being a little generous to Biagio's soccer IQ. Kids an animal though.
And tufts scoring record in the NCAAs, with the exception of last year when Tasker and Kulscar were out and braun was hampered by injury, is the proof of my point. When they play teams that are willing to play them straight up they score goals. They certainly don't change their style for the tournament but their opponents do. Montclair state was the perfect example of what happens to teams that try to play tufts in an open game.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 02, 2018, 10:17:28 AM
Mr. Right appreciate you admitting your mistake. We certainly appreciated your bulletin board material. I think your criticism of Tufts for being defensive misses you point a little bit. The reality is this team is as offensive as the 2014 group but other teams have changed in response to our success. Happens when you win 3 in 5. When teams come out with the entire intention of playing for a draw it is going to be tough to score a bunch of goals. With the exception of Trinity every team in this conference is well-organized, athletic and tough to break down. But despite that tufts was only shut out twice all year.
I think honestly the source of most of the animosity on the part of people associated with Tufts comes from your individual assessments which often are completely wide of the mark. Any time you called someone on the team soft you were wrong, just ask Calvin or Amherst if TVB was soft.
d4P, does this mean that current NESCAC players actually read these threads and are aware, for example, when MR levels individual criticisms at players?
All I can opine on is what I see. Unlike yourself who watches these guys everyday at practice and every game I do not see everything. I try to watch all 11 Nescac teams and write what I see. It is impossible to watch every minute of every game for any team. I watched Tufts just as much as I watched any other Nescac team. I still think I get it right most of the time especially considering I only see them play maybe once a week and on a stream. Your refusal to acknowledge any weaknesses of your players is telling and I was not debating you about your opponents playing style. I am agreeing with you on that. I was talking about Tufts playing style especially late September/early October when it was clear Tufts was the best team in the region. It was just frustrating for someone that watches a ton of Nescac Men's Soccer to see the best team play the way they were playing against lesser Nescac sides. It is just a disagreement on tactics/playing style. I just happened to think it was unnecessarily overly conservative for the best team in the league to NOT ATTACK full throttle and go at every Nescac team they played for the full 90. That's all and we can agree to disagree......
I am sorry but Aroh might be fine "at top speed" but he is not a quick player especially with the ball at his feet. A holding midfielder usually has to rely on quickness for 90 minutes than running at top speed. Braun could have had 4 Goals this weekend if he was a lethal finisher however if he was a lethal finisher he would be starting for an ACC school. So it is a good thing he slipped thru the cracks...
One more thing....Let's assume I do have it all ass backwards and I do not know what I am talking about. Out of curiosity D4Pace or any other Jumbo supporter since you have probably taken a few Coaching Courses prove me wrong. Let's say you are a Head Men's Soccer Coach with a match against Tufts tomorrow. Let's also assume the team you coach is basically just as talented as Tufts. What is your gameplan? What is the best way to go at Tufts? Where on the field are you taking chances? What would the best system of play be against Tufts? I would like to know you or any other Jumbo supporters opinion on Tufts weaknesses.
D4Pace I want to see what your made of. Do you have the sack to opine on your former teammates weaknesses for the whole world to see? Or are u worried about what your friends would think. It is a tough situation isn't it? Am I being too harsh? Maybe but again I am "wide of the mark" most of the time. I need to be schooled and corrected so I can get it right next year. Please help me out....
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
.
I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
Mr. Right, from my view of actually being at all the games in Greensboro, you are certainly correct that Tufts' direct/aggressive/fouls play in the first 15 minutes set Calvin on their heels. It seemed to surprise and intimidate Calvin, taking them a while to regain their confidence. Physical contact, tackling, etc., clearly different, appeared to many in the stands regardless of of loyalty to be deliberate attempt to gain an upper hand. Probably good strategy ....
Totally fair point about not being able to watch as much and you do a great job considering that. I want that to be clear that I completely respect that. 1970s I know for a fact a bunch of different schools in the NESCAC read the boards pretty consistently not that sure about the rest of the country.
Mr. Right while I appreciate your challenge, I'm not super interested in sharing how I would try to beat tufts. I love watching the boys pile up the rings for Coach Shapiro. I definitely agree that all the guys on the team have flaws, mine was speed hence the name, but I think they should be judged relative to the d3 level. You're right if we didn't then we'd be playing in the ACC or with Pulisic and mcKennie in the Bundesliga.
For example, Gavin Tasker is really bad at telling jokes, Coleman was incapable of using an inside voice, and Rojas is way too good at instagram.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
.
I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
Fans being fooled by stats is one thing, but your last sentence seems to imply that teams and/or coaches would make that mistake. I'm sure Calvin was not fooled by how good Tufts is or how competitive of a game to expect. And of course Souders would still think he had the better team. Calvin was pretty confident that this was their year, and then they came into the came after blitzing the team most thought had the best chance to win way back to preseason (Chicago). I think it's true Calvin had to adjust to Tufts athleticism and physicality and in the 2nd half they did match the intensity. I thought Tufts maybe started protecting the lead too early but maybe they did keep attacking and Calvin was just playing much better in the 2nd half. No question Calvin could have equalized with the amount of pressure they created, but they didn't, and Tufts has an aura that gets them through these games (the kind of aura Calvin is used to having). As bloots pointed out, those early goals really are big and to some degree fortuitous.
Huge congrats to Tufts....an amazing achievement. You have to have some good fortune but 3 out of 5 speaks for itself. I wonder if it's true that Shapiro is a Tufts lifer now. At some point one would think money talks and a man has to do what is best for his family, but I'm sure Tufts is treating him very well.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
.
I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
Fans being fooled by stats is one thing, but your last sentence seems to imply that teams and/or coaches would make that mistake. I'm sure Calvin was not fooled by how good Tufts is or how competitive of a game to expect. And of course Souders would still think he had the better team. Calvin was pretty confident that this was their year, and then they came into the came after blitzing the team most thought had the best chance to win way back to preseason (Chicago). I think it's true Calvin had to adjust to Tufts athleticism and physicality and in the 2nd half they did match the intensity. I thought Tufts maybe started protecting the lead too early but maybe they did keep attacking and Calvin was just playing much better in the 2nd half. No question Calvin could have equalized with the amount of pressure they created, but they didn't, and Tufts has an aura that gets them through these games (the kind of aura Calvin is used to having). As bloots pointed out, those early goals really are big and to some degree fortuitous.
Huge congrats to Tufts....an amazing achievement. You have to have some good fortune but 3 out of 5 speaks for itself. I wonder if it's true that Shapiro is a Tufts lifer now. At some point one would think money talks and a man has to do what is best for his family, but I'm sure Tufts is treating him very well.
Good analysis, PN, but I also thought that Tufts could have been up by 3 or 4 goals at HT.
I'm ambivalent about some of the stuff above. I'll pull a DT and say "there are good people on both sides, both sides."
When you write as much as MR does, with very detailed game set-ups and the like, he's going to get a couple of things wrong. I've never seen him as a Tufts hater at all....maybe less ready to crown them before they've been crowned, but he always eventually has given Tufts its due. All of our styles grate on each other after a while. MR and I are probably responsible for at least half of each other's negative karma going back a few years ago....but imagine if people like him and myself and Falconer and 1970s and even BF (D4, can you do something about BF lol???) didn't participate. We all contribute to making all this a bigger deal than it is. MR helps hype Tufts and the rest of the NESCAC and often other programs and players as well. I thought I was done, and then the season started and I gradually got pulled in more and more....and caught the Kenyon bug yet again with another great season I wasn't expecting and then only to be heartbroken yet again. I'm sure some Kenyon folks are sick of me and my ridiculous comments. But I've also elevated Kenyon's profile over the years, and I think it does make some difference when programs have their super-fans and super-defenders. I'm also really embarrassed. It really is remarkable how middle aged and older middle aged men can get so caught up in all this stuff. Pretty easy to diagnose but much harder to treat...
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 02, 2018, 01:42:47 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
.
I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
Fans being fooled by stats is one thing, but your last sentence seems to imply that teams and/or coaches would make that mistake. I'm sure Calvin was not fooled by how good Tufts is or how competitive of a game to expect. And of course Souders would still think he had the better team. Calvin was pretty confident that this was their year, and then they came into the came after blitzing the team most thought had the best chance to win way back to preseason (Chicago). I think it's true Calvin had to adjust to Tufts athleticism and physicality and in the 2nd half they did match the intensity. I thought Tufts maybe started protecting the lead too early but maybe they did keep attacking and Calvin was just playing much better in the 2nd half. No question Calvin could have equalized with the amount of pressure they created, but they didn't, and Tufts has an aura that gets them through these games (the kind of aura Calvin is used to having). As bloots pointed out, those early goals really are big and to some degree fortuitous.
Huge congrats to Tufts....an amazing achievement. You have to have some good fortune but 3 out of 5 speaks for itself. I wonder if it's true that Shapiro is a Tufts lifer now. At some point one would think money talks and a man has to do what is best for his family, but I'm sure Tufts is treating him very well.
Good analysis, PN, but I also thought that Tufts could have been up by 3 or 4 goals at HT.
Agreed. You may have seen my post at halftime saying that Tufts was throttling Calvin and looked like a D1 team against a D3 team. But I had to be fair. Calvin more than made the game interesting in the 2nd half....which was apparent in the Tufts press conference. And while Tufts could have been up 3-0 or 4-0 at half, Calvin shouldn't have allowed the two goals that did go in. I actually didn't see the first, but I wonder how many times this year Calvin has allowed a throw-in to get all the way through the box to a wide open, point blank player on the other side.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:26:34 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
.
I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
Fans being fooled by stats is one thing, but your last sentence seems to imply that teams and/or coaches would make that mistake. I'm sure Calvin was not fooled by how good Tufts is or how competitive of a game to expect. And of course Souders would still think he had the better team. Calvin was pretty confident that this was their year, and then they came into the came after blitzing the team most thought had the best chance to win way back to preseason (Chicago). I think it's true Calvin had to adjust to Tufts athleticism and physicality and in the 2nd half they did match the intensity. I thought Tufts maybe started protecting the lead too early but maybe they did keep attacking and Calvin was just playing much better in the 2nd half. No question Calvin could have equalized with the amount of pressure they created, but they didn't, and Tufts has an aura that gets them through these games (the kind of aura Calvin is used to having). As bloots pointed out, those early goals really are big and to some degree fortuitous.
Huge congrats to Tufts....an amazing achievement. You have to have some good fortune but 3 out of 5 speaks for itself. I wonder if it's true that Shapiro is a Tufts lifer now. At some point one would think money talks and a man has to do what is best for his family, but I'm sure Tufts is treating him very well.
Paul, I wasn't implying anything about Calvin's coach... I said "if".... I do agree Tufts May have packed it in a little early..... Regarding Mr. Right, I also don't consider him a Tufts hater. I realize no one can have the skinny on every player, but LaPaz tries to give an honest direct opinion... Yes, sometimes calling players by names, and going further than most in this regard, but I don't thinks he does it because he hates one team or another....
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: BetaBob on December 02, 2018, 12:42:59 AM
Just hoping Mr. Right would be gracious enough to congratulate Tufts after hating on them/shorting them all season. Probably the same guy who shorted Apple and Amazon. Eventually you'll be right I guess. See you next year my man!
As far as BetaBob....Where were you all season? Obviously, you were reading my work but failing to throw yourself into the mixer. I would not care if you are a Jumbo partisan. Why not log in and give it to me and critique my work each week? Give us your opinions and evals....Instead you decide to read my work all year and then throw a cheap shot to my gut when I am not looking. That's fine to each his own.....
Yeah, I agree with Mr. Right. Woofing once your team has won, after having not made a peep all season, is weak. And I think it's ridiculous to claim that Mr. Right has been "hating on" Tufts specifically. Anyone who follows this site knows that he is ready and willing to drop bombs on anyone at any school, if he doesn't think they're doing the job. He may not always be right when he does that, but I appreciate that he's willing to say what he thinks and why he thinks it.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on December 02, 2018, 11:28:53 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 02, 2018, 10:17:28 AM
Mr. Right appreciate you admitting your mistake. We certainly appreciated your bulletin board material. I think your criticism of Tufts for being defensive misses you point a little bit. The reality is this team is as offensive as the 2014 group but other teams have changed in response to our success. Happens when you win 3 in 5. When teams come out with the entire intention of playing for a draw it is going to be tough to score a bunch of goals. With the exception of Trinity every team in this conference is well-organized, athletic and tough to break down. But despite that tufts was only shut out twice all year.
I think honestly the source of most of the animosity on the part of people associated with Tufts comes from your individual assessments which often are completely wide of the mark. Any time you called someone on the team soft you were wrong, just ask Calvin or Amherst if TVB was soft.
d4P, does this mean that current NESCAC players actually read these threads and are aware, for example, when MR levels individual criticisms at players?
Mr. Right was quoted in one of the episodes of the YouTube series that Dexter Eichhorst put together about the 2017 season, during one of the the faux radio interview show segments. So the answer is yes.
Quote from: Buck O. on December 02, 2018, 08:05:25 PM
Yeah, I agree with Mr. Right. Woofing once your team has won, after having not made a peep all season, is weak. And I think it's ridiculous to claim that Mr. Right has been "hating on" Tufts specifically. Anyone who follows this site knows that he is ready and willing to drop bombs on anyone at any school, if he doesn't think they're doing the job. He may not always be right when he does that, but I appreciate that he's willing to say what he thinks and why he thinks it.
Woah now...he does have
one other post, which was criticizing an offsides call (that his son was on the receiving end of). ;) Regardless I agree with the sentiment of your post, Buck O., and while Mr.Right may have chosen Amherst over Tufts this year I do not think he is a hater at all.
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
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I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
I tried to emphasize during the broadcast that their numbers wouldn't have been as high if they played in the UAA or NESCAC. However prior to the Tufts came, Calvin ripped through the NCAA Tournament, outscoring five opponents by a combined 17-1. It's a potent offense. It just wasn't as quick as Tufts. I felt they didn't play fast enough.
Quote from: irapthor on December 02, 2018, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 02, 2018, 01:14:20 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 10:09:49 AM
Just finished watching the Calvin/Tufts pressers and nothing really jumps out at me that is new. I mean you can tell Tufts players love playing for Shapiro as they really respect him. I thought the Calvin Head Coach was obviously disappointed BUT reading between the lines I think he clearly thought Calvin was the better team. He acknowledged that Calvin dominated possession and thought that would determine who won the game. I guess I am a little surprised at his tactics going into the game against Tufts. He probably only had seen Tufts play UR but clearly he should know since they played in 2016 what to expect from Tufts and how to beat them. However, Calvin did not look willing or ready for the physicality of Tufts out of the gates. By the 2nd Half Calvin was matching Tufts physicality but it was to late as they were down 2-0. I also was a bit surprised at how Calvin tried to attack Tufts. They were trying to play wide as they did against Chicago and clearly were attacking the left side of the field BUT they were attacking at the same speed they were attacking Chicago. Chicago just does not defend or hunt the ball like Tufts does. As I said all game Calvin was moving to slow in attack when they were possessing. They dominated possession but Tufts had plenty of time to get set defensively and thwart any dangerous chances. Calvin HAD to play even faster than they were. Get the ball back off a giveaway and ping two quick passes and then get the ball wide to the flanks. Burst down the flank and get service into the box with 4-5 guys waiting. They were not doing that as they took way to long and they started to get frustrated a bit because at about the 30th minute Vetger hit a couple beautiful 40 yard balls long to try to spring their striker but Tufts easily snuffed them out. I guess I am trying to say I am a little surprised at Calvin's Head Coach approach in attack.
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I think a good sentence here is that the Calvin coach thought his team was better. If so, that's a mistake. The announcers kept saying how great Calvin is offensively and kept saying how many goals they scored. I understand why they did this as it's part of broadcasting and they really don't get to see these teams play much. (I think they did an excellent job by the way). Again, this is apples and oranges. Schedules are different, conferences are different, and the numbers of games played are different. Don't get me wrong, Calvin is a great offensive team but people often give statistics too much weight. When u get in the tourney, less reliance on stats and more scouting, if possible, is probably the way to go...
I tried to emphasize during the broadcast that their numbers wouldn't have been as high if they played in the UAA or NESCAC. However prior to the Tufts came, Calvin ripped through the NCAA Tournament, outscoring five opponents by a combined 17-1. It's a potent offense. It just wasn't as quick as Tufts. I felt they didn't play fast enough.
I'll concur - the talk about Calvin's offense was that it is potent, but also in an MIAA conference where they may be able to put up bigger numbers. We talked a few times during the weekend - in both of their games - about how they put up some gaudy numbers against opponents other teams didn't have on their schedule. We also talked about how Tufts plays in a conference where it is more of a grind each game.
But let's keep in mind at the same time ... Calvin hung a four-spot on Chicago. While stats can say one thing and you do have to take into account who they play (which we did), they still scored four goals against the Maroons in the semifinals.
Tufts defense was very good. Better than advertised coming in, in my opinion.
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ... did anyone have any issues with the streaming of the games? I'm not necessarily looking for "it wouldn't start" as that could be anything from your device to the connection to the ...
I'm looking for "commercial breaks weren't really commercials" (just a screen that said commercial break) to the stream stopped and we had to go out and come back in to get the game again. That kind of stuff.
I do NOT want to necessarily overflow this page with complaints and such. I am, again, trying to put together some perspectives before I report some that I've already gathered from others to people I think need to know (and will listen to me). Feel free to DM me instead of crowding this thread or others.
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
I thought that the stream was fine, Dave. And you and Ira did a great job.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ... did anyone have any issues with the streaming of the games? I'm not necessarily looking for "it wouldn't start" as that could be anything from your device to the connection to the ...
I'm looking for "commercial breaks weren't really commercials" (just a screen that said commercial break) to the stream stopped and we had to go out and come back in to get the game again. That kind of stuff.
I do NOT want to necessarily overflow this page with complaints and such. I am, again, trying to put together some perspectives before I report some that I've already gathered from others to people I think need to know (and will listen to me). Feel free to DM me instead of crowding this thread or others.
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
Overall, an excellent broadcast!
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
Since you asked, PaulNewman, I'll give my twenty five cents.
Tufts is clearly the premiere D3 program over the past five years. Clearly. Those used to saying that the road to the title goes through Grantham need a geography lesson.
I'm sure you want more, so I'll offer more. First, IMO the two best Falcon teams in that period were (in order) 2014 and 2016. Tufts beat the former on a deflected shot in the first minute on a small muddy field, while the Falcons hit the woodwork at least once (was it twice?) in the closing minutes. That's as close as it gets. I think the Falcons were probably slightly better, meaning that they might have beaten Tufts in a 3-game series, but that's just my opinion and we'll never know. We do know that Tufts won fair and square and went on to beat two really good teams soundly in the Final Four. They fully deserved that win.
The 2016 team lost at home to Calvin in 2OTs. Calvin deserved to win that one: they clearly dominated the second half, tied the game, and won on a great play. True, the Falcons should have scored at least 3 in the first half, but they have to blame themselves and no one else for not advancing. Calvin then gave Tufts all they could handle in the final, but Tufts prevailed. That's what great teams do. Had the Falcons advance, maybe they beat Tufts, but that's only speculation. What we do know favors Tufts.
Now, the 2017 team was a different story. No one, flat no one, shut them out all year, and they played great defense except on set plays where they sucked on both ends of the field. Perhaps Tufts would have beaten them in the semi-final, if they got past Brandeis, but I actually don't think so. Not b/c Tufts wasn't just as good last year--they might have been better than the Falcons last year--but that particular Falcon team as everyone knows, just refused to lose. I think we can assume that they would have scored at least one against Tufts, just as they scored against everyone else, and perhaps that would have been enough. More likely, it would have been like the Brandeis game, which ended 3-2. Again, this is speculation. What we do know is that, reversing 2016, the Falcons got it done and the Jumbos didn't make the Final Four.
The 2018 Falcon team was (IMO) perhaps (I say perhaps) weaker overall than the 2014, 2016, and 2017 teams--though obviously stronger than the 2015 team that didn't even get a bid. The SRs this year (the 5 big names being West, Ruiz Plaza, J Brautigam, Bell, and Alejos) were just FR in 2015. All 5 started before the season ended--which tells you a lot about that team, since that just never happens in Grantham. The supporting cast was the weakest in a long time. The JR and SO classes on this year's team aren't as deep as the SRs of 2017 and 2018, especially the SO class. However, the FR class is certainly among the very best in Falcon history; we'll see just how good before they are done. Luke Groothoff (as noted by bloots) is the first FR AA (second team, but he should have been 1st team IMO) for the Falcons since Kasiguran, who might have been the single best D3 player of his era. Groothoff could prove to be in that category: time and teammates will tell. Kasiguran's supporting cast was unbelievably good, still (IMO) the greatest Falcon class ever. I know next to nothing about the incoming FR class, except that it might be the largest in number under Brandt or McCarty and it's supposed to contain one of the best CBs out there (someone from the Southwest). That's exactly what's needed if the Falcons are to reclaim supremacy from Tufts. Two or three great classes in a row are what the doctor ordered. Perhaps that's in the works.
I would have loved to see a Falcon-Tufts semi-final: who wouldn't have? Rochester stepped in and prevented that. I congratulated them without any sour grapes already, as anyone can see. They played a great game, earning the right to play Tufts themselves, but as saw they weren't quite in the same class as Tufts. I don't know whether the Falcons would have done any better, but almost certainly they wouldn't have beaten Tufts without CM Ruiz Plaza, CB Cooper Robbins, and three other key players much slowed by injuries (Alejos and Kokolios were starters unable to start), with 7 men in all down or out. I mention this here only b/c you asked for my view, PaulNewman, so I'm giving it. All things considered, this wasn't going to be the year for that Falcon-Jumbo game; the real Falcon team wouldn't have showed up. I think we can assume that West would have scored at least once vs Tufts, since he scored against every other top 25 team this year, but we can't assume that the Falcons would have scored twice or have shut out the Jumbos. Certainly it would have been a barn burner.
So, that's my thoughts. More than three cents worth, granted. I hope others don't resent any of this, which I've kept to myself until now. Had there been no specific request from you, I probably would have remained silent. I missed all 3 games this weekend owing to family commitments and other things--and mostly that would have been true even if the Falcons had made it to Greensboro. Just as I missed the game with Rochester. So, I can't comment specifically on any of the games. The only time I've seen Tufts this year was their home game vs Bates, in which Bates put cement around the wheels of their bus and Tufts proceeded to display an almost studied inability to finish. Clearly they got over that problem at some point in November, which is why they won (apparently).
Congratulations to Tufts. They earned it.
Great post MaturinNYC....
A few loose thoughts/questions not necessarily fitting here but didn't want to start a whole new thread....
Tufts and NESCAC....Much is made of the shortened NESCAC season, and limited time for preseason training. My question is whether there really is a lack of a Spring season. I know they can't have any sort of formal Spring season with official practices and real scrimmages, but....is there an expectation that players training and lift and play indoors through the winter, and then latch on to some kind of fairly competitive Summer action? Do the captains tapped for the next year make sure there is ongoing training and cohesion?
Also, much is made in the D1 vs D3 discussion about kids choosing D3 because (among several factors) of the option for doing a junior year abroad? I was thinking about this and realized I can't recall anyone mentioning any players of real significance for at least top level, competitive D3s where kids actually have taken a year abroad. I can recall a player or two from Kenyon taking a Spring semester only to go abroad but not a full year. Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?
And what goes into programs NOT utilizing the training trip abroad once every 3-4 years? Is this allowed in NESCAC? Why would very competitive programs not take advantage? Funding? Just coach preference? Lack of player interest?
And finally (for now), and to the extent that there is any truth to this....what is the reason(s) some (and I don't mean Mr.Right) during the season (and prior seasons) seemed doubtful or unsure about how good Tufts is. It almost seems like some are surprised. Yes, there is good fortune (the pure luck of getting home field for the sectional in 2016), but Tufts arguably could have zero titles or FIVE. Who could say they wouldn't have won last year if they had gotten by Brandeis in an OT game? And they lost in the last 30 seconds to Kenyon in 2015 (preventing the Jumbos from playing in the Elite 8....none other than Calvin)? And think there is a momentum that comes from winning one, but certainly after two to three within a short time frame that helps creates a culture of expecting to win, having a certain swagger, and I'm sure huge benefits in terms of recruiting.
Which reminds me, one more thing....to the extent that someone can share this info, what schools is Tufts winning recruits from in head to head battles or in cases where Tufts is one of a recruit's final 3-4 choices? Other NESCACs? Academically oriented D1 mid-majors (Davidson, Colgate, Richmond, Bucknell, etc)?
Gratuitous, self-serving commentary corner....the more I watched Calvin the more I'm not super confident that Kenyon would have beaten Calvin. We probably will mostly remember Tufts beating Calvin, but the Knights certainly were a fantastic team and would have been worthy national champions. But I do think Kenyon would have had a chance. Looking through some of the comments about how Tufts asserted control early in the game, I think it's possible that Kenyon is one of the other few teams that could have taken Calvin out of its game a little too. Calvin is used to having control, even in close games, but I think the high pressure and swarming of the Lords (on a very good day) could have bothered Calvin....not to the same degree as Tufts, because the Lords could not match the overall size, athleticism and physicality of Tufts, but perhaps enough to create a competitive game. After all, the Lords did finish at 18-1-3 which compares pretty well to the eventual Elite 8 and Final Four teams.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Also, much is made in the D1 vs D3 discussion about kids choosing D3 because (among several factors) of the option for doing a junior year abroad? I was thinking about this and realized I can't recall anyone mentioning any players of real significance for at least top level, competitive D3s where kids actually have taken a year abroad. I can recall a player or two from Kenyon taking a Spring semester only to go abroad but not a full year. Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?
I think "year abroad" might be colloquial...I certainly don't know of any players who have gone for a full year, rather just the spring. (That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, of course.)
Thanks, Falconer. Good post.
As you probably noticed from pretty early on I said I was hoping for a Tufts-Messiah match. Certainly Messiah would have had a chance (certainly as good a chance as anyone else), but what I think we're learning about Tufts is that they might even have been disappointed that they didn't get Messiah. Just like Messiah teams, they now expect to win no matter what and regardless of who the opponent is. It is impressive that Shapiro can walk the line between supreme confidence and over-confidence.
Going forward will be interesting....1) does Shapiro stay? and 2) is Tufts now like the Golden State Warriors? Darlings at first and a marvel but now with a target on their backs and a team most of us will really want to see lose and be even madder when they don't.
Quote from: Buck O. on December 02, 2018, 08:05:25 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 02, 2018, 09:51:48 AM
Quote from: BetaBob on December 02, 2018, 12:42:59 AM
Just hoping Mr. Right would be gracious enough to congratulate Tufts after hating on them/shorting them all season. Probably the same guy who shorted Apple and Amazon. Eventually you'll be right I guess. See you next year my man!
As far as BetaBob....Where were you all season? Obviously, you were reading my work but failing to throw yourself into the mixer. I would not care if you are a Jumbo partisan. Why not log in and give it to me and critique my work each week? Give us your opinions and evals....Instead you decide to read my work all year and then throw a cheap shot to my gut when I am not looking. That's fine to each his own.....
Yeah, I agree with Mr. Right. Woofing once your team has won, after having not made a peep all season, is weak. And I think it's ridiculous to claim that Mr. Right has been "hating on" Tufts specifically. Anyone who follows this site knows that he is ready and willing to drop bombs on anyone at any school, if he doesn't think they're doing the job. He may not always be right when he does that, but I appreciate that he's willing to say what he thinks and why he thinks it.
Spot on, Buck O - these jabs at Mr. Right are quite bush league.
First I want to clarify I wasn't trying to take a jab at Mr Right. He does a good job but as someone with a unique perspective on the players he wanted to mention I wanted to offer my counterpoints. We have obligation to agree or see the game the same way.
Next in response to falconer. I think that 2014 messiah team was easily the best we played and the discussion amongst alumni was how this weekends calvin team stacked up with the consensus being they were very close to the same level. Tufts can certainly sympathize with Messiahs Injury plight because to some extent, all credit to Brandeis, that's what prevented the Tufts messiah final four last year. Tufts had 9 starters miss time during the season including 3 for the sweet 16/elite 8 games. It would have been interesting test between the team that always scored and the one that never conceded. I'm sure the two will run into each other soon enough.
I can only speak for tufts but a large percentage of Tufts Juniors go abroad. In the past couple years Meith, Najjar, Weatherbie, zinner, Coleman, Eichhorst, Johnson, both Halliday's, Majumder and others have gone their junior spring.
Kudos to Tufts for winning another title. I was rooting for Calvin to get the title since they have been longing for so long. Tufts is also hard to root against because they are an extremely respectful side during and after a game. After losing to them in 2016 not one rude word came out of their mouth which I greatly appreciated. A quality all great teams should have and I expect a lot of that comes through Shapiro.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AMAnd what goes into programs NOT utilizing the training trip abroad once every 3-4 years? Is this allowed in NESCAC? Why would very competitive programs not take advantage? Funding? Just coach preference? Lack of player interest?
North Park's men's soccer program has never taken such a trip. The only international trips that NPU teams have taken have typically been missions service trips, in which the team (it's usually women's basketball or softball) goes to Latin America or Africa and stages youth clinics, digs a fishpond or two or patches a hospital roof, and plays a few local teams. Those kinds of trips are pretty easy to fund via church donations.
For the NPU soccer program, there's the additional headaches involved in getting extra visas arranged for all of the international players who would be going on the trip (although the problem would solve itself nicely if the trip was to Scandinavia), plus you'd have to pry a lot of the Scandinavian players away from the town teams that they play for in the summer, which is a very big deal for them since it involves local pride. And the American kids are typically busting their humps all summer trying to earn enough money for school in the fall; many of them are from working-class immigrant families, for whom just paying a NPU tuition bill is a financial challenge.
I would imagine that lots of other D3 schools that don't have deep pockets don't take international trips.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Great post MaturinNYC....
A few loose thoughts/questions not necessarily fitting here but didn't want to start a whole new thread....
Tufts and NESCAC....Much is made of the shortened NESCAC season, and limited time for preseason training. My question is whether there really is a lack of a Spring season. I know they can't have any sort of formal Spring season with official practices and real scrimmages, but....is there an expectation that players training and lift and play indoors through the winter, and then latch on to some kind of fairly competitive Summer action? Do the captains tapped for the next year make sure there is ongoing training and cohesion?
Also, much is made in the D1 vs D3 discussion about kids choosing D3 because (among several factors) of the option for doing a junior year abroad? I was thinking about this and realized I can't recall anyone mentioning any players of real significance for at least top level, competitive D3s where kids actually have taken a year abroad. I can recall a player or two from Kenyon taking a Spring semester only to go abroad but not a full year. Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?
And what goes into programs NOT utilizing the training trip abroad once every 3-4 years? Is this allowed in NESCAC? Why would very competitive programs not take advantage? Funding? Just coach preference? Lack of player interest?
And finally (for now), and to the extent that there is any truth to this....what is the reason(s) some (and I don't mean Mr.Right) during the season (and prior seasons) seemed doubtful or unsure about how good Tufts is. It almost seems like some are surprised. Yes, there is good fortune (the pure luck of getting home field for the sectional in 2016), but Tufts arguably could have zero titles or FIVE. Who could say they wouldn't have won last year if they had gotten by Brandeis in an OT game? And they lost in the last 30 seconds to Kenyon in 2015 (preventing the Jumbos from playing in the Elite 8....none other than Calvin)? And think there is a momentum that comes from winning one, but certainly after two to three within a short time frame that helps creates a culture of expecting to win, having a certain swagger, and I'm sure huge benefits in terms of recruiting.
Which reminds me, one more thing....to the extent that someone can share this info, what schools is Tufts winning recruits from in head to head battles or in cases where Tufts is one of a recruit's final 3-4 choices? Other NESCACs? Academically oriented D1 mid-majors (Davidson, Colgate, Richmond, Bucknell, etc)?
Lots of interesting commentary in this thread!
There are some questions above that I might be able to offer some color to as the parent of a committed NESCAC player.
My son had overnights and long visits at a variety of NESCAC schools so he got a wide variety of perspective from many different current players and coaches. At one school, I talked to the coach about terms abroad specifically (this school made the NESCAC tourney this season). He said 6 of 8 juniors went on term abroad the past season (and they went together!). The coach said he encourages it. The rising seniors become even closer, and the younger classes have to step up and become 'leaders' in the absence of the true 'leadership group' during the spring 'practices.' Other coaches had similar sentiments on terms abroad, but admittedly, I only discussed this personally with 2 current NESCAC coaches.
As for how different players made their decisions, it was fascinating to hear the details of conversations my son had with different players. He said there were a bunch of players that literally visited EVERY NESCAC school to find 'the right fit' for them after getting offers from every coach. I think most realize they aren't going pro playing at the D3 level, so the right fit academically, socially, soccerwise, etc. is all part of the puzzle. Not every kid wants a 5000+ student school in a city like Tufts, and not everyone wants to be in Maine or Vermont, etc. Now I realize this anecdote is probably unlikely, but many different players said very similar things. And seeing for ourselves how different various coaches run their programs, and how different some of the schools are from one another, leads me to believe this is all true. Some kids specifically told my son there were some coaches they could never play for so that school was off of their list.
Spring workouts and summer training are a must--if you want to play. In my area, many NESCAC players from rival schools find themselves playing as teammates on U23 teams over the summer. The games aren't that important, but the practices sure are. You'd be quite impressed with the quality of the practices, as there are a lot of D1 kids (and graduates!) playing on/practicing with/against these teams as well.
Finally, what schools is Tufts winning players from--I think that is a very loaded question. Tufts wins some players, and they also lose some. A recruiting class is quite small, and Shapiro is later than many (I'd probably even say later than most, or even last!) to make solid offers. And he is open and honest about it! But that comes from his position of strength, right? Success breeds success. Some kids want to wait, others don't. Some kids wait and get screwed and lose a spot. Shapiro is also a great guy and kids WANT to play for him. I was talking to another NESCAC recruit just yesterday about this exact issue, and he told me that there were only 3 NESCAC coaches he wanted to play for, and a few he "would never player for." Shapiro was one of the 3 he would play for. No shock there!
One thing that was always of interest to my son was the quality of talent at the school camps. If you've been to a Tufts one day camp, you'll see a massive disparity in the talent level between the players. And because Shapiro does one day camps rather than a 4 day camp like Bowdoin or Amherst, for instance, Friday's camp might have few skilled players relative to Saturday's camp.
I personally think the fact that Tufts is so different from the rest of NESCAC as a school makes it hard, if not impossible, to answer this question. Tufts has an engineering school, so if that's your thing, you think Tufts. If you want to go to school in a small New England town, Williams might be your choice. I doubt there are very many players looking at Richmond AND Tufts, but hey, I could be very wrong too. Once he knew that it was likely because of his academic performance, my son, for instance, was set on NESCAC. Geography also played a big part in the decision.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ... did anyone have any issues with the streaming of the games? I'm not necessarily looking for "it wouldn't start" as that could be anything from your device to the connection to the ...
I'm looking for "commercial breaks weren't really commercials" (just a screen that said commercial break) to the stream stopped and we had to go out and come back in to get the game again. That kind of stuff.
I do NOT want to necessarily overflow this page with complaints and such. I am, again, trying to put together some perspectives before I report some that I've already gathered from others to people I think need to know (and will listen to me). Feel free to DM me instead of crowding this thread or others.
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
I really enjoyed them and thought you were terrific onair.
I had some problems staying connected during the Rochester game, but don't know wwhere the problem was.
The commercial break was annoying. I figure the folks watching are interested in D3 soccer generally and might have enjoyed some programing like a season retrospective or an interview with a NCAA D3 representative talking about the future. Even a preview of the woman's game might been fun.
I know relatively little about recruiting at Messiah, since I've never had a son on the team and I don't know any of the parents well enough to hear things. Having followed the team forever, however, I have picked up enough information in the Brandt-McCarty eras to know just a little with some confidence.
First, Messiah doesn't recruit in the same way that many other schools apparently recruit. Players come after Messiah rather than the other way around. They often show up at summer camps initially (so I hear), and if they are led to believe they might be good enough to play at Messiah then they will then (if so inclined) let coaches know of their interest. The coaches know which positions they need to fill, they know how many slots they have for the next season (perhaps more than usual next year for reasons entirely unknown to me), and I think it may be first come first served from there. I know that some well qualified players were turned down in Brandt's years simply b/c they waited too long to make a decision. Unable to say whether that's still true under McCarty. In a few instances, high D1 level players visit campus--about 20 years ago there was a local player (son of Messiah alumni) who briefly considered Messiah but ended up as an all-conference player at Penn State. He now coaches at D2 or NAIA level. Kai Kasiguran was at that level (he declined an offer from Akron), and so perhaps is current FR Luke Groothoff. Jack Thompson might have been at that level also, though for some reason he didn't pile up AA honors at Messiah--he certainly merited such. Only a very small number of Falcons (as far as I know) have also been recruited by NESCACs. Those schools in general are just so different from Messiah in so many ways, that it doesn't seem likely to happen very often. Nor does Messiah ordinarily get many players from New England, although in an exceptional case next fall there will be 3 returning starters (Shay Quintin and the Groothoff brothers) from New England. Quintin is the only one who attended a famous prep school, however--Milton Academy, where some apparently regarded him as the best player despite several teammates going to D1 or NESCAC.
Second, every so often a player decides not to return, for his own reasons, even sometimes a starter--Danny Brandt (who obviously reversed his decision later on) is the best known recent example. Another recent example was a FR from CA who was highly athletic and skilled, but (apparently) for financial reasons didn't return: one of his parents teaches at a private college in CA that plays D2, he got free tuition at that school, and he's good enough to start for them (as he did this season). I hear he would rather have stayed at Messiah, but life can override one's preferences as we all know. For the most part, however, players who choose Messiah stay, play all four years, and graduate--even in one famous case (POY Josh Wood) they enroll in one of the graduate programs and play another year.
Do they go abroad? I don't have much knowledge about this for specific players. I can say only this much. I can't recall seeing any foreign language majors on the soccer roster at any point in the past couple decades. One doesn't always know this type of information very precisely. The college will publicize a player's major in certain news releases, and usually they list it for each incoming player in the spring, but who knows whether any given player changes his major at some point? I do know that (according to the catalog) language majors must spend a full year abroad. I don't know whether that could be accomplished by two spring semesters. I also know that the college is famous for offering zillions of opportunities for students to go abroad. In a few recent years, I recall seeing news releases to the effect that Messiah was among the top 10 undergraduate colleges (in a given year) for sending students abroad; well over half of the students do this, apparently, however for many of them it happens in 3-week courses in January (they have a January term) or after the spring term. So, unless this situation has changed, I think we can assume that at least some soccer players do go abroad, though whether for a full semester I cannot say.
I think Messiah usually does do a foreign trip of some sort at the level allowable--isn't it limited to once in four years, or something like that? For a long time, when Layton Shoemaker was coaching and even occasionally under Brandt, they would also do an in-season western trip every few years, either to CA or CO or Chicago. UAA schools have schedules that require air travel, but I doubt a place like Messiah could ever do that. They have NESCAC level enrollments, but nothing remotely close to NESCAC level endowments (or tuition levels).
Quote from: daddyEzK on December 03, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ... did anyone have any issues with the streaming of the games? I'm not necessarily looking for "it wouldn't start" as that could be anything from your device to the connection to the ...
I'm looking for "commercial breaks weren't really commercials" (just a screen that said commercial break) to the stream stopped and we had to go out and come back in to get the game again. That kind of stuff.
I do NOT want to necessarily overflow this page with complaints and such. I am, again, trying to put together some perspectives before I report some that I've already gathered from others to people I think need to know (and will listen to me). Feel free to DM me instead of crowding this thread or others.
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
I really enjoyed them and thought you were terrific onair.
I had some problems staying connected during the Rochester game, but don't know wwhere the problem was.
The commercial break was annoying. I figure the folks watching are interested in D3 soccer generally and might have enjoyed some programing like a season retrospective or an interview with a NCAA D3 representative talking about the future. Even a preview of the woman's game might been fun.
Well we do need to take those breaks ... or we would kill ourselves with exhaustion. LOL
I am curious if anyone actually saw commercials run during those breaks. I'm getting word that those breaks may not have been filled with ... commercials. That's a problem.
I would love to have more content at halftime. I actually suggested to the VP of DIII who was in attendance on Friday about coming up, but he didn't make it. We could try and get someone from the committee(s) in the future. Preview could be interesting, but I'm also conscious that not everyone watching Game A is planning to watch any other games.
And having to come and go from the Rochester game is what I was wondering about. I know there were bigger problems in the women's title game for whatever reasons, so I'm trying to chase down how wide-spread those technical problems may have been ... which I don't think were on the user's end (in my opinion based on a wealth of web streaming and TV production experience).
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2018, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: daddyEzK on December 03, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ... did anyone have any issues with the streaming of the games? I'm not necessarily looking for "it wouldn't start" as that could be anything from your device to the connection to the ...
I'm looking for "commercial breaks weren't really commercials" (just a screen that said commercial break) to the stream stopped and we had to go out and come back in to get the game again. That kind of stuff.
I do NOT want to necessarily overflow this page with complaints and such. I am, again, trying to put together some perspectives before I report some that I've already gathered from others to people I think need to know (and will listen to me). Feel free to DM me instead of crowding this thread or others.
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
I really enjoyed them and thought you were terrific onair.
I had some problems staying connected during the Rochester game, but don't know wwhere the problem was.
The commercial break was annoying. I figure the folks watching are interested in D3 soccer generally and might have enjoyed some programing like a season retrospective or an interview with a NCAA D3 representative talking about the future. Even a preview of the woman's game might been fun.
Well we do need to take those breaks ... or we would kill ourselves with exhaustion. LOL
I am curious if anyone actually saw commercials run during those breaks. I'm getting word that those breaks may not have been filled with ... commercials. That's a problem.
I would love to have more content at halftime. I actually suggested to the VP of DIII who was in attendance on Friday about coming up, but he didn't make it. We could try and get someone from the committee(s) in the future. Preview could be interesting, but I'm also conscious that not everyone watching Game A is planning to watch any other games.
And having to come and go from the Rochester game is what I was wondering about. I know there were bigger problems in the women's title game for whatever reasons, so I'm trying to chase down how wide-spread those technical problems may have been ... which I don't think were on the user's end (in my opinion based on a wealth of web streaming and TV production experience).
just a blank screen that said we were in a commercial break.
I watched most of both games on Friday.
1) I know you're looking more for technical feedback, but... You guys were solid. I made an in-game comment giving one of you grief about a fairly routine catch by a GK that got blown out of proportion. But if that's the most glaring "error" (which it wasn't, it was just kind of funny), you guys killed it. (I don't have a ton of patience for announcers who clearly don't know the game, but insist on chattering away like they're calling a horse race or something.)
2) And, yes, your concerns are accurate... The commercial breaks were, for the most part, just the blue screen noting we were in a break.
Now, I might be in the minority, but unless you guys have the ability/production capacity, I'm not really sure it's worth doing a half-time show. Most people watching know they have 15 minutes to hop up and go get some stuff done, and I just don't think many folks want to sit through 8-10 minutes of analysis. Now, I think you could tell the audience "We're going to take a 10 minute break, and when we come back, we'll have first half highlights and talk strategy for the 2nd half" or whatever.
But as you mentioned, you guys need a break. As folks who sit back and think about big time broadcasts, they throw it to studio (or down on the field for the panel) and yammer on for a few commercial breaks. Then they come back to the booth before kick-off (sometimes with very little banter/analysis, sometimes with a condensed package of what the studio panel covered.
Anyways... There's a bunch of stuff you didn't ask for, but hopefully it is either validating or interesting.
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
In a few instances, high D1 level players visit campus--about 20 years ago there was a local player (son of Messiah alumni) who briefly considered Messiah but ended up as an all-conference player at Penn State. He now coaches at D2 or NAIA level.
To have a little fun with my electronic friends from New England: the man I refer to here somewhat cryptically was a two-time AA who played several years for the New England Revolution and later briefly coached a Boston-area D3 team. As I understand it, few thought he'd actually end up at Messiah, but he did express some interest in doing so and did (I think) visit campus with that in mind as a possibility. (I happen to know his father, who taught HS math very successfully just a few miles from Messiah.)
Can anyone fill in the blank? :o
(sorry, accidentally deleted so just reposting)
Hi all - I think i'm one of the "UAA folks who were all over the place" that BrotherFlounder called out (though i think this is only my 3rd or 4th post?). Anyways, apologies for my silence, but i got home late last night from Greensboro (a 10 hour drive) and spent the day catching up on all the other stuff i've been ignoring for the past few weeks, only just getting on the boards tonight. I'm not at all sure that me saying this adds any gloss to the feat, but congratulations to Tufts on their championship, and to the NESCAC league on producing yet another championship team - very impressive.
So far my personal experience has been with the UAA, and i've only seen three NESCAC teams in person (2017 Conn College and Amherst, and 2018 Tufts) - so anything i post will likely be about the UAA. I get though that since the UAA regularly gets several Group C tournament slots and is often talked about as 'the best', that that will engender feelings of being slighted and some assumptions of superiority. So let me be clear that i respect every team i've seen from the various leagues that the team i follow (Rochester) has played against for the past 3 seasons. From the Skyline Conference to the powerhouses of the Liberty League and SUNYAC in particular (i've seen about 18 games from those two), they have some fantastic programs that play great soccer, and i can't recall any game that was easy...at all. One fact about D3 soccer that i can say with authority is that no school, no team, and certainly no league can claim a gulf of quality - there is quality all over, the margins are thin and getting thinner.
Having seen both semi's in person (and streamed the final on I95 while my wife drove), i wouldn't have been surprised by any of the 4 teams winning it all - they each showed the quality which got them there, but Tufts simply showed it more, longer and at the key moments, and so they deserve the big trophy.
Kudos to Hannah Lichtenstein on her excellent review of Semi #2, just spot-on with every word i thought. (Semi #1 was also very good, but no name attached). I also enjoyed reading all the posts and perspectives about the games here (in particular Mr.Right was pretty much that with his notes, and thanks PaulNewman). So in hopes of entertaining and informing, let me contribute some additional thoughts:
- Greensboro knows how to host, they did a nice job preparing the field and creating an environment befitting the Final Four (loved the cannon blasts on the goals). And the NCAA did a great job with pre-game events, swag bags, site signage, trophies, etc. For our guys this was just 1 game further than the Elite 8 they reached last year, but it felt another level, very special.
- Some have said that the field looked big, but according to sources it is 75 wide, which is about 8 yards wider than UofR's home field turf. So big, but not huge.
- Calvin looked like they could've beaten Barca or Man City on Friday - all they did turned to gold, and you could tell what it meant to them to finally get past a very good Chicago side that had barred the door for so long. I can relate to the feeling after UofR at last got past Messiah - it's a great feeling. But by definition such games are summits, both mentally and physically, so did reaching that height mean that they weren't 100% for the real summit the next day? They certainly looked a step slower and a thought late vs. Tufts in the first half.
- In the 2nd semi, Rochester may have been suffering from the same "false summit" syndrome, even though the Messiah win was two weeks prior. Who knows for sure, but one thing was clear - experience told. Tufts had been here before and even in the introductions that showed - they were loose and engaged and enjoying themselves, whereas Rochester looked like they were still processing the event and the stage, and as many (including Coach Apple) have said, they didn't play the game that got them there in the first half. Tufts game denied Rochester comfort on the ball, and they executed it ruthlessly. Ironically after the second Tufts goal, Rochester seemed to find their gears and played with more confidence, only to yield a third before getting one back on a corner (btw, Miller took a boot in the jaw on his way to heading the ball, not 'off the face' as the stream showed). At that point the game felt like it could've easily turned had a 2nd goal come, but credit Tufts with limiting quality chances the rest of the way and seeing the game thru.
- All four teams were quality as i said, as were their fans (the one exception was a guy we referred to as "purple shirt" who clearly offended even his own side's supporters - if you're reading this sir, you'll find the game more enjoyable if you don't yell "you suck" so much to everyone playing, officiating or coaching it). It was fun to talk with supporters from the other schools, including those from the Women's teams who also stayed at the Sheraton - game recognizes game, as the kids say.
- One of the most surprising and strangely fantastic moments actually happened Friday night in the hotel lobby. Some of the Seniors from Rochester were gathered there, and after a while some of the Chicago players walked in. Seeing this unfold from nearby a parent said "I wonder how this is going to play out?". Two groups who fought each other for 4 years, both having recently lost their last game - could've easily gotten very negative very quick. Instead, there were jokes - "Hey, the guys who lost by 3 today should buy the guys who lost by 2 a coke", and debates over who has the more boring/nerdy campus, comparisons of scouting notes on each player ("the word on you was 'slow'" - "but i'm the fastest guy on our team!!!") and chants of "UAA! UAA!" (because you know, common ground must be found) and handshakes and back-slaps and more guys called out from their rooms to come and join in. It was 4 years of memories and laughs, and probably the best thing to cap off a career with. Unplanned, unexpected, uncommon and unforgettable.
- The best dessert i've ever had was the Affogato at Print Works Bistro in the Proximity Hotel
- The Rochester Alumni Assoc. hosted a post-game gathering at Horigan's House of Taps for alums, parents and friends, which had a really interesting concept: you buy a bracelet and fill it with $10 or $20, then you get a glass and walk up to a wall of taps offering beers and wines of every conceivable variety, and you get charged by the ounce. Grab another glass for a different drink, etc. So you can get a flight of tasters, or whole pints, wines, ciders, etc. - fantastic idea.
Ok, that's all i got.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2018, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: daddyEzK on December 03, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ...
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
I really enjoyed them and thought you were terrific onair.
I had some problems staying connected during the Rochester game, but don't know wwhere the problem was.
Well we do need to take those breaks ... or we would kill ourselves with exhaustion. LOL
I watched the two semi's live, but i caught the final on the stream - i also thought you guys were great, solid observations and you had insightful anecdotes and were great, really added to the atmosphere. Technically the connection stopped/froze a few times for me but i'm convinced that had more to do with the fact that i was in a car on a tethered connection from my phone - i simply restarted and it was fine, and i was grateful for the ability to watch it so absolutely no complaints there.
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 03, 2018, 02:56:55 PM
(sorry, accidentally deleted so just reposting)
Hi all - I think i'm one of the "UAA folks who were all over the place" that BrotherFlounder called out (though i think this is only my 3rd or 4th post?). Anyways, apologies for my silence, but i got home late last night from Greensboro (a 10 hour drive) and spent the day catching up on all the other stuff i've been ignoring for the past few weeks, only just getting on the boards tonight. I'm not at all sure that me saying this adds any gloss to the feat, but congratulations to Tufts on their championship, and to the NESCAC league on producing yet another championship team - very impressive.
So far my personal experience has been with the UAA, and i've only seen three NESCAC teams in person (2017 Conn College and Amherst, and 2018 Tufts) - so anything i post will likely be about the UAA. I get though that since the UAA regularly gets several Group C tournament slots and is often talked about as 'the best', that that will engender feelings of being slighted and some assumptions of superiority. So let me be clear that i respect every team i've seen from the various leagues that the team i follow (Rochester) has played against for the past 3 seasons. From the Skyline Conference to the powerhouses of the Liberty League and SUNYAC in particular (i've seen about 18 games from those two), they have some fantastic programs that play great soccer, and i can't recall any game that was easy...at all. One fact about D3 soccer that i can say with authority is that no school, no team, and certainly no league can claim a gulf of quality - there is quality all over, the margins are thin and getting thinner.
Having seen both semi's in person (and streamed the final on I95 while my wife drove), i wouldn't have been surprised by any of the 4 teams winning it all - they each showed the quality which got them there, but Tufts simply showed it more, longer and at the key moments, and so they deserve the big trophy.
Kudos to Hannah Lichtenstein on her excellent review of Semi #2, just spot-on with every word i thought. (Semi #1 was also very good, but no name attached). I also enjoyed reading all the posts and perspectives about the games here (in particular Mr.Right was pretty much that with his notes, and thanks PaulNewman). So in hopes of entertaining and informing, let me contribute some additional thoughts:
- Greensboro knows how to host, they did a nice job preparing the field and creating an environment befitting the Final Four (loved the cannon blasts on the goals). And the NCAA did a great job with pre-game events, swag bags, site signage, trophies, etc. For our guys this was just 1 game further than the Elite 8 they reached last year, but it felt another level, very special.
- Some have said that the field looked big, but according to sources it is 75 wide, which is about 8 yards wider than UofR's home field turf. So big, but not huge.
- Calvin looked like they could've beaten Barca or Man City on Friday - all they did turned to gold, and you could tell what it meant to them to finally get past a very good Chicago side that had barred the door for so long. I can relate to the feeling after UofR at last got past Messiah - it's a great feeling. But by definition such games are summits, both mentally and physically, so did reaching that height mean that they weren't 100% for the real summit the next day? They certainly looked a step slower and a thought late vs. Tufts in the first half.
- In the 2nd semi, Rochester may have been suffering from the same "false summit" syndrome, even though the Messiah win was two weeks prior. Who knows for sure, but one thing was clear - experience told. Tufts had been here before and even in the introductions that showed - they were loose and engaged and enjoying themselves, whereas Rochester looked like they were still processing the event and the stage, and as many (including Coach Apple) have said, they didn't play the game that got them there in the first half. Tufts game denied Rochester comfort on the ball, and they executed it ruthlessly. Ironically after the second Tufts goal, Rochester seemed to find their gears and played with more confidence, only to yield a third before getting one back on a corner (btw, Miller took a boot in the jaw on his way to heading the ball, not 'off the face' as the stream showed). At that point the game felt like it could've easily turned had a 2nd goal come, but credit Tufts with limiting quality chances the rest of the way and seeing the game thru.
- All four teams were quality as i said, as were their fans (the one exception was a guy we referred to as "purple shirt" who clearly offended even his own side's supporters - if you're reading this sir, you'll find the game more enjoyable if you don't yell "you suck" so much to everyone playing, officiating or coaching it). It was fun to talk with supporters from the other schools, including those from the Women's teams who also stayed at the Sheraton - game recognizes game, as the kids say.
- One of the most surprising and strangely fantastic moments actually happened Friday night in the hotel lobby. Some of the Seniors from Rochester were gathered there, and after a while some of the Chicago players walked in. Seeing this unfold from nearby a parent said "I wonder how this is going to play out?". Two groups who fought each other for 4 years, both having recently lost their last game - could've easily gotten very negative very quick. Instead, there were jokes - "Hey, the guys who lost by 3 today should buy the guys who lost by 2 a coke", and debates over who has the more boring/nerdy campus, comparisons of scouting notes on each player ("the word on you was 'slow'" - "but i'm the fastest guy on our team!!!") and chants of "UAA! UAA!" (because you know, common ground must be found) and handshakes and back-slaps and more guys called out from their rooms to come and join in. It was 4 years of memories and laughs, and probably the best thing to cap off a career with. Unplanned, unexpected, uncommon and unforgettable.
- The best dessert i've ever had was the Affogato at Print Works Bistro in the Proximity Hotel
- The Rochester Alumni Assoc. hosted a post-game gathering at Horigan's House of Taps for alums, parents and friends, which had a really interesting concept: you buy a bracelet and fill it with $10 or $20, then you get a glass and walk up to a wall of taps offering beers and wines of every conceivable variety, and you get charged by the ounce. Grab another glass for a different drink, etc. So you can get a flight of tasters, or whole pints, wines, ciders, etc. - fantastic idea.
Ok, that's all i got.
I really like the anecdote -- the combination of banter plus mutual respect between a number of (but admittedly not all) rival teams is one of the things that has made me become a fan of D3 soccer as a whole. +K
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
In a few instances, high D1 level players visit campus--about 20 years ago there was a local player (son of Messiah alumni) who briefly considered Messiah but ended up as an all-conference player at Penn State. He now coaches at D2 or NAIA level.
To have a little fun with my electronic friends from New England: the man I refer to here somewhat cryptically was a two-time AA who played several years for the New England Revolution and later briefly coached a Boston-area D3 team. As I understand it, few thought he'd actually end up at Messiah, but he did express some interest in doing so and did (I think) visit campus with that in mind as a possibility. (I happen to know his father, who taught HS math very successfully just a few miles from Messiah.)
Can anyone fill in the blank? :o
Derek Potteiger?
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Tufts and NESCAC....Much is made of the shortened NESCAC season, and limited time for preseason training.
When my son was at a camp over the summer at a NESCAC school, one of the current players led a tour, and the topic of the delayed start of practice, compared to the rest of D3, came up. He said that he had been told that it would probably be done away with next year, so that the NESCACs could start training at the same time as every other D3. Anyone know if there's any truth to that?
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Also, much is made in the D1 vs D3 discussion about kids choosing D3 because (among several factors) of the option for doing a junior year abroad? I was thinking about this and realized I can't recall anyone mentioning any players of real significance for at least top level, competitive D3s where kids actually have taken a year abroad. I can recall a player or two from Kenyon taking a Spring semester only to go abroad but not a full year. Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?
Like others, I know of tons of examples of kids going abroad for the spring semester, but not for the whole year. This is a topic that my son and I raised with a number of coaches and they were all fine with going abroad for the spring, and pointed to it as one of the advantages of a D3 program compared to D1.
More generally, if you were a player at, say, Kenyon, would you want to miss your junior season to go on a year abroad, when you could spend a semester abroad in the spring without missing the season? I would think not.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Which reminds me, one more thing....to the extent that someone can share this info, what schools is Tufts winning recruits from in head to head battles or in cases where Tufts is one of a recruit's final 3-4 choices? Other NESCACs? Academically oriented D1 mid-majors (Davidson, Colgate, Richmond, Bucknell, etc)?
I doubt they are competing with Richmond, since Richmond cut its men's soccer team a couple of years ago.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 03, 2018, 01:31:41 PM
Quote from: daddyEzK on December 03, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 02, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
On a separate note out of curiousity as I try and report some things back to people ... did anyone have any issues with the streaming of the games? I'm not necessarily looking for "it wouldn't start" as that could be anything from your device to the connection to the ...
I'm looking for "commercial breaks weren't really commercials" (just a screen that said commercial break) to the stream stopped and we had to go out and come back in to get the game again. That kind of stuff.
I do NOT want to necessarily overflow this page with complaints and such. I am, again, trying to put together some perspectives before I report some that I've already gathered from others to people I think need to know (and will listen to me). Feel free to DM me instead of crowding this thread or others.
Thanks ... and I at least hope the broadcasts were entertaining. The games certainly were - even if the first one had us sitting outside under a tent.
I really enjoyed them and thought you were terrific onair.
I had some problems staying connected during the Rochester game, but don't know wwhere the problem was.
The commercial break was annoying. I figure the folks watching are interested in D3 soccer generally and might have enjoyed some programing like a season retrospective or an interview with a NCAA D3 representative talking about the future. Even a preview of the woman's game might been fun.
Well we do need to take those breaks ... or we would kill ourselves with exhaustion. LOL
I am curious if anyone actually saw commercials run during those breaks. I'm getting word that those breaks may not have been filled with ... commercials. That's a problem.
I would love to have more content at halftime. I actually suggested to the VP of DIII who was in attendance on Friday about coming up, but he didn't make it. We could try and get someone from the committee(s) in the future. Preview could be interesting, but I'm also conscious that not everyone watching Game A is planning to watch any other games.
And having to come and go from the Rochester game is what I was wondering about. I know there were bigger problems in the women's title game for whatever reasons, so I'm trying to chase down how wide-spread those technical problems may have been ... which I don't think were on the user's end (in my opinion based on a wealth of web streaming and TV production experience).
First off, I thought you and Ira did well. Now, as to the questions you asked:
As others have reported, I never saw any ads during the commercial breaks. Acura and Fruit of the Loom got their money's worth nevertheless, as I saw one of their ads whenever I had to reload the stream, as the stream would buffer for a bit and then quit. This problem was much worse for the women's final: I was actually playing the stream on my PC and my tablet simultaneously so that I could switch from one to other whenever one of them would freeze up, as it would take a couple of minutes to restart and sit through the requisite ad. But in every game, it seemed like I had to reload whenever you went to a commercial break. (I've noticed this issue with other streams as well.)
I pulled a Blooter and took advantage of an opportunity for economical travel and accommodations, heading off not to Copenhagen, Reykjavik, or Liverpool, but to Greensboro for the Final Four. Doing so allowed me to check off an item on my D3 men's soccer spectating bucket list (up next: a night game at the Rock Bowl). I will attempt to offer a few comments that, for the most part, do not duplicate the excellent observations of MaturinNYC and address issues that may not have been fully discussed or evident on the live stream.
*My biggest regret in attending the games in person is that I did not get to view and, more importantly, hear Ira and Dave's webcast. A family member who tuned in gave high marks to the commentary.
*In an attempt to let the live experience soak in, I went (largely) device-free. I confess that I peeked at the halftimes to see what Mr. Right, Blooter, PaulNewman, and the rest of the gang had to say. [By the way, who occupies the Rob Stone, Stuart Holden, and, most importantly, Alexi Lalas roles? Or is it more like who occupies the Stephen A. Smith ("Trent Vegter is a dear, dear friend..."), Max Kellerman, and Skip Bayless roles? I have my own ideas, but suspect my karma would take a massive hit if I shared them ;)]
*As MaturinNYC mentioned, UNCG was a top notch host and everything about the facilities and presentation elements were first class. It was amazing to see how well the field held up over 6 games (and multiple rainfalls) in less than 36 hours. The grounds crew deserves a ton of credit for keeping the field playable. I cannot remember any (overly) bad bounces. It was a real treat to see players run onto perfectly weighted, defender-splitting through balls that would have rolled mercilessly out of bounds on turf.
*All four teams were well-represented by family, friends, fans, and alumni. Rochester won the custom gear competition hands down. Those snappy blue Final Four t-shirts evoked the spirit of Meliora and had to leave the Yellowjackets on the field feeling very supported. From an auditory perspective, the fans of all four teams brought enough cowbells to keep even Christopher Walken happy. The cannon shots after the goals were very cool on a visceral level and brought a bigtime feel to the games.
*Although not the mecca for coaches that the D1 basketball Final Four is, there were members of quite a few D3 coaching staffs in attendance, including Whitworth, from the Pacific Northwest. It was interesting to see Brandon Bianco, chair of the championships committee, handing out all of the awards. If Case had managed to knock off Calvin in the Elite Eight, would he have presented himself with the Case team award and shaken his own hand? As I watched the title game, I wondered what was going through the mind of Coach Bianco's fellow committee member, Justin Serpone, who had to watch his conference rival claim another championship.
*Calvin's performance against Chicago was, as amply described on these pages, simply stunning. After watching several of their live streams during the season, I had wondered if they could dominate elite teams the way they did their conference opponents. I got my answer!
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
*The energy that Tufts brought to the first 5-10 minutes of the final was palpable, belying my comment about the back-to-back format. Speaking of energy, I was shocked to see in the box score that Calvin only used 13 players. I knew that the Knights didn't do a ton of subbing and that they experienced no drop off when they did, but had no idea that they only used 13 players. That speaks volumes about their level of conditioning. Even more impressive (to me) than the conditioning of the Knights was their collective first touch, especially the wide players, who routinely and calmly received passes in the air from distance in ways that left them ready to dribble or pass as needed. From the Jumbos, I was awed by the real estate covered by Tasker and Lane. I can't imagine that the video feed was able to capture them tracking both back and across the field with pace, thwarting attacks and closing down players with remarkable effectiveness. I smiled at the LeBron-like halftime rest that Coach Shapiro gave Tasker when he subbed Tasker out at the 43-minute mark of the first half.
*Calvin's players, coaches, and supporters exuded pure class in victory and defeat. With a fourth runner-up, the Knights have entered Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings territory, but with Coach Souders at the helm, their chances of winning the big one someday are strong.
*I'm not sure if the webcast caught this, but midway through the first half of the final, when Tufts was racking up the fouls at an alarming rate and zero fouls had been called against Calvin, several Jumbo supporters were vocal in their criticism of the referee. Coach Shapiro turned to the crowd and motioned for quiet, saying that addressing the referee was his job. Nary a peep was heard from the fans regarding the referee for the rest of the game. This incident shows the respect that the Jumbo supporters have for Coach Shapiro.
Final Four done. Rock Bowl, here I come!
A bit late here, but I too enjoyed the broadcast. The only technical thing I remember is that I did see the "Commercial Break" notice during halftime.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
I pulled a Blooter and took advantage of an opportunity for economical travel and accommodations, heading off not to Copenhagen, Reykjavik, or Liverpool, but to Greensboro for the Final Four. Doing so allowed me to check off an item on my D3 men's soccer spectating bucket list (up next: a night game at the Rock Bowl). I will attempt to offer a few comments that, for the most part, do not duplicate the excellent observations of MaturinNYC and address issues that may not have been fully discussed or evident on the live stream.
Good choice, and I am impressed you remembered some of my destinations! Two years ago I had finished a job the week of Thanksgiving and had 12 days until the next one started. With nothing to do that week and Brandeis heading to the Final 4 I looked at flights to Roanoke VA but all the tickets were in the $400+ round trip range, a price range which I very rarely pay (the last $500+ ticket I had was a $594 BOS-LHR round trip on BA last spring...an exceptional price at the time but that route is now selling for sub-$400). Even flights into IAD/DCA/BWI were above $300 round trip. I ended up doing a couple of $97 round trips to NYC and Chicago instead (both on United before the whole Dr. Dao episode; haven't flown them since). Regardless, glad to hear you got a good deal.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*In an attempt to let the live experience soak in, I went (largely) device-free. I confess that I peeked at the halftimes to see what Mr. Right, Blooter, PaulNewman, and the rest of the gang had to say. [By the way, who occupies the Rob Stone, Stuart Holden, and, most importantly, Alexi Lalas roles? Or is it more like who occupies the Stephen A. Smith ("Trent Vegter is a dear, dear friend..."), Max Kellerman, and Skip Bayless roles? I have my own ideas, but suspect my karma would take a massive hit if I shared them ;)]
Also a good choice -- I tried to keep my phone away while live at the Regional and Sectional rounds this year. That being said, I sure hope I am not Lalas...he and Twellman are obnoxious. Is being Ian Darke an option? ;)
Quote from: blooter442 on December 03, 2018, 06:53:17 PM
Also a good choice -- I tried to keep my phone away while live at the Regional and Sectional rounds this year. That being said, I sure hope I am not Lalas...he and Twellman are obnoxious. Is being Ian Darke an option? ;)
Mr. Right wrote recently of your peacekeeping role on the board, so I thought that you might slide into the Max Kellerman position. Besides, Ian Darke's accent differs from that of the one on the Soundcloud link you provided a while back ;)
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
I'm ambivalent about some of the stuff above. I'll pull a DT and say "there are good people on both sides, both sides."
When you write as much as MR does, with very detailed game set-ups and the like, he's going to get a couple of things wrong. I've never seen him as a Tufts hater at all....maybe less ready to crown them before they've been crowned, but he always eventually has given Tufts its due. All of our styles grate on each other after a while. MR and I are probably responsible for at least half of each other's negative karma going back a few years ago....but imagine if people like him and myself and Falconer and 1970s and even BF (D4, can you do something about BF lol???) didn't participate. We all contribute to making all this a bigger deal than it is. MR helps hype Tufts and the rest of the NESCAC and often other programs and players as well. I thought I was done, and then the season started and I gradually got pulled in more and more....and caught the Kenyon bug yet again with another great season I wasn't expecting and then only to be heartbroken yet again. I'm sure some Kenyon folks are sick of me and my ridiculous comments. But I've also elevated Kenyon's profile over the years, and I think it does make some difference when programs have their super-fans and super-defenders. I'm also really embarrassed. It really is remarkable how middle aged and older middle aged men can get so caught up in all this stuff. Pretty easy to diagnose but much harder to treat...
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
I do not think D4pace was taking a jab just countering my point which is what we do on here but thanks to all for the backup from some of the "gang" like NESoccerfan, Buck O and PN. I agree with pretty much all of what PN said here except the part about being middle-aged...lol...I am still in my 30's.
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 03, 2018, 07:16:29 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
I'm ambivalent about some of the stuff above. I'll pull a DT and say "there are good people on both sides, both sides."
When you write as much as MR does, with very detailed game set-ups and the like, he's going to get a couple of things wrong. I've never seen him as a Tufts hater at all....maybe less ready to crown them before they've been crowned, but he always eventually has given Tufts its due. All of our styles grate on each other after a while. MR and I are probably responsible for at least half of each other's negative karma going back a few years ago....but imagine if people like him and myself and Falconer and 1970s and even BF (D4, can you do something about BF lol???) didn't participate. We all contribute to making all this a bigger deal than it is. MR helps hype Tufts and the rest of the NESCAC and often other programs and players as well. I thought I was done, and then the season started and I gradually got pulled in more and more....and caught the Kenyon bug yet again with another great season I wasn't expecting and then only to be heartbroken yet again. I'm sure some Kenyon folks are sick of me and my ridiculous comments. But I've also elevated Kenyon's profile over the years, and I think it does make some difference when programs have their super-fans and super-defenders. I'm also really embarrassed. It really is remarkable how middle aged and older middle aged men can get so caught up in all this stuff. Pretty easy to diagnose but much harder to treat...
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
I do not think D4pace was taking a jab just countering my point which is what we do on here but thanks to all for the backup from some of the "gang" like NESoccerfan, Buck O and PN. I agree with pretty much all of what PN said here except the part about being middle-aged...lol...I am still in my 30's.
LOL....just imagine how skilled you'll be at this stuff when you get a few more years under your belt.
I'm curious to see if D4 is going to respond to any of my questions about Tufts, recruiting, off-season, etc. I was struck for example when I saw Tasker in person how strong he is as one of Tufts' smaller (relatively) players. He clearly does a ton of weightlifting and strength training...and I do think Tasker in particular is one of the most underrated Tufts players in recent years. I would have easily voted him as an AA.
That said, I disagree with D4 a little that Tufts should have had a handful of AA selections. What makes them so good in my mind is that they have a full roster of very good players who find a way to mesh well together. There is no way to focus on just one or three of their players.
I didn't realize that Calvin only played 13. As I've said before I consider Shapiro and Souders like 1 and 1A in terms of best coaches. I'm just a tiny bit less impressed learning that he only plays 13-14. He makes a big deal about "all 26," and with a school with that kind of mission and in D3 I can't see only giving 13 kids playing time. Also obviously is a weakness when playing a team like Tufts.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*My biggest regret in attending the games in person is that I did not get to view and, more importantly, hear Ira and Dave's webcast. A family member who tuned in gave high marks to the commentary.
Rejoice Ommadawn, that's an easy regret to fix! - https://www.ncaa.com/video/soccer-men/2018-12-01/diii-mens-soccer-2018-championship-recap
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*In an attempt to let the live experience soak in, I went (largely) device-free.
Me too! I had several friends and family asking me to send them updates before the game - so i just sent out the live stream link to all and then turned my phone off. Nothing beats being there, but you're not there if you're looking at your feet.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*As MaturinNYC mentioned, UNCG was a top notch host and everything about the facilities and presentation elements were first class. It was amazing to see how well the field held up over 6 games (and multiple rainfalls) in less than 36 hours. The grounds crew deserves a ton of credit for keeping the field playable.
I agree, but a friend from London sent me a note saying "that pitch looks as beat up as Wembley" - the discolored patches are just an artifact of the grass seed they use i think, as in person and up-close it's smooth and uniform.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*All four teams were well-represented by family, friends, fans, and alumni. Rochester won the custom gear competition hands down. Those snappy blue Final Four t-shirts evoked the spirit of Meliora and had to leave the Yellowjackets on the field feeling very supported.
Have to give a shout out to superfan Catherine Conway (older sister of our keeper, Patrick), who got that organized and made reality from her phone about 10 minutes after the Messiah game (technology & logistics are amazing these days). Also the women of the UofR Field Hockey team produced a hype video showing support from current students, athletes & alums to the Dean's office to an older gentleman playing a trumpet and delivering a rendition of a 1908 "UofR Battle Song" --- priceless stuff.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*Calvin's performance against Chicago was, as amply described on these pages, simply stunning. After watching several of their live streams during the season, I had wondered if they could dominate elite teams the way they did their conference opponents. I got my answer!
That was my take as well - Calvin was clicking that game.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
Great idea! I agree, giving the teams even a one-day break would help - but you can also see how the reality (another hotel night bill for the NCAA, etc.) works against that.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*Calvin's players, coaches, and supporters exuded pure class in victory and defeat. With a fourth runner-up, the Knights have entered Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings territory, but with Coach Souders at the helm, their chances of winning the big one someday are strong.
Agreed.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*I'm not sure if the webcast caught this, but midway through the first half of the final, when Tufts was racking up the fouls at an alarming rate and zero fouls had been called against Calvin, several Jumbo supporters were vocal in their criticism of the referee. Coach Shapiro turned to the crowd and motioned for quiet, saying that addressing the referee was his job. Nary a peep was heard from the fans regarding the referee for the rest of the game. This incident shows the respect that the Jumbo supporters have for Coach Shapiro.
Lol, a similar scene played out on Friday as well.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
I pulled a Blooter and took advantage of an opportunity for economical travel and accommodations, heading off not to Copenhagen, Reykjavik, or Liverpool, but to Greensboro for the Final Four. Doing so allowed me to check off an item on my D3 men's soccer spectating bucket list (up next: a night game at the Rock Bowl). I will attempt to offer a few comments that, for the most part, do not duplicate the excellent observations of MaturinNYC and address issues that may not have been fully discussed or evident on the live stream.
*My biggest regret in attending the games in person is that I did not get to view and, more importantly, hear Ira and Dave's webcast. A family member who tuned in gave high marks to the commentary.
*In an attempt to let the live experience soak in, I went (largely) device-free. I confess that I peeked at the halftimes to see what Mr. Right, Blooter, PaulNewman, and the rest of the gang had to say. [By the way, who occupies the Rob Stone, Stuart Holden, and, most importantly, Alexi Lalas roles? Or is it more like who occupies the Stephen A. Smith ("Trent Vegter is a dear, dear friend..."), Max Kellerman, and Skip Bayless roles? I have my own ideas, but suspect my karma would take a massive hit if I shared them ;)]
*As MaturinNYC mentioned, UNCG was a top notch host and everything about the facilities and presentation elements were first class. It was amazing to see how well the field held up over 6 games (and multiple rainfalls) in less than 36 hours. The grounds crew deserves a ton of credit for keeping the field playable. I cannot remember any (overly) bad bounces. It was a real treat to see players run onto perfectly weighted, defender-splitting through balls that would have rolled mercilessly out of bounds on turf.
*All four teams were well-represented by family, friends, fans, and alumni. Rochester won the custom gear competition hands down. Those snappy blue Final Four t-shirts evoked the spirit of Meliora and had to leave the Yellowjackets on the field feeling very supported. From an auditory perspective, the fans of all four teams brought enough cowbells to keep even Christopher Walken happy. The cannon shots after the goals were very cool on a visceral level and brought a bigtime feel to the games.
*Although not the mecca for coaches that the D1 basketball Final Four is, there were members of quite a few D3 coaching staffs in attendance, including Whitworth, from the Pacific Northwest. It was interesting to see Brandon Bianco, chair of the championships committee, handing out all of the awards. If Case had managed to knock off Calvin in the Elite Eight, would he have presented himself with the Case team award and shaken his own hand? As I watched the title game, I wondered what was going through the mind of Coach Bianco's fellow committee member, Justin Serpone, who had to watch his conference rival claim another championship.
*Calvin's performance against Chicago was, as amply described on these pages, simply stunning. After watching several of their live streams during the season, I had wondered if they could dominate elite teams the way they did their conference opponents. I got my answer!
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
*The energy that Tufts brought to the first 5-10 minutes of the final was palpable, belying my comment about the back-to-back format. Speaking of energy, I was shocked to see in the box score that Calvin only used 13 players. I knew that the Knights didn't do a ton of subbing and that they experienced no drop off when they did, but had no idea that they only used 13 players. That speaks volumes about their level of conditioning. Even more impressive (to me) than the conditioning of the Knights was their collective first touch, especially the wide players, who routinely and calmly received passes in the air from distance in ways that left them ready to dribble or pass as needed. From the Jumbos, I was awed by the real estate covered by Tasker and Lane. I can't imagine that the video feed was able to capture them tracking both back and across the field with pace, thwarting attacks and closing down players with remarkable effectiveness. I smiled at the LeBron-like halftime rest that Coach Shapiro gave Tasker when he subbed Tasker out at the 43-minute mark of the first half.
*Calvin's players, coaches, and supporters exuded pure class in victory and defeat. With a fourth runner-up, the Knights have entered Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings territory, but with Coach Souders at the helm, their chances of winning the big one someday are strong.
*I'm not sure if the webcast caught this, but midway through the first half of the final, when Tufts was racking up the fouls at an alarming rate and zero fouls had been called against Calvin, several Jumbo supporters were vocal in their criticism of the referee. Coach Shapiro turned to the crowd and motioned for quiet, saying that addressing the referee was his job. Nary a peep was heard from the fans regarding the referee for the rest of the game. This incident shows the respect that the Jumbo supporters have for Coach Shapiro.
Final Four done. Rock Bowl, here I come!
Great post. You need to take a risk to post more next year. You seem like one of the few who has an appreciation for D3 across regions. Are you willing to reveal your primary region of interest?
Is JP Dellacamera up for grabs? Julie Foudy? I just want to be
somebody...
I thought the announcers were excellent.
And another kudos for one of the best single things in the tournament....the woman who called the CWRU sectional (and even considering that she was in the bag for CWRU.....she was superb.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Mr. Right wrote recently of your peacekeeping role on the board, so I thought that you might slide into the Max Kellerman position.
I can live with that.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 07:03:06 PM
Besides, Ian Darke's accent differs from that of the one on the Soundcloud link you provided a while back ;)
Touche!
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 09:59:52 AM
Great post MaturinNYC....
A few loose thoughts/questions not necessarily fitting here but didn't want to start a whole new thread....
Tufts and NESCAC....Much is made of the shortened NESCAC season, and limited time for preseason training. My question is whether there really is a lack of a Spring season. I know they can't have any sort of formal Spring season with official practices and real scrimmages, but....is there an expectation that players training and lift and play indoors through the winter, and then latch on to some kind of fairly competitive Summer action? Do the captains tapped for the next year make sure there is ongoing training and cohesion?
Also, much is made in the D1 vs D3 discussion about kids choosing D3 because (among several factors) of the option for doing a junior year abroad? I was thinking about this and realized I can't recall anyone mentioning any players of real significance for at least top level, competitive D3s where kids actually have taken a year abroad. I can recall a player or two from Kenyon taking a Spring semester only to go abroad but not a full year. Anyone have any evidence to the contrary?
And what goes into programs NOT utilizing the training trip abroad once every 3-4 years? Is this allowed in NESCAC? Why would very competitive programs not take advantage? Funding? Just coach preference? Lack of player interest?
And finally (for now), and to the extent that there is any truth to this....what is the reason(s) some (and I don't mean Mr.Right) during the season (and prior seasons) seemed doubtful or unsure about how good Tufts is. It almost seems like some are surprised. Yes, there is good fortune (the pure luck of getting home field for the sectional in 2016), but Tufts arguably could have zero titles or FIVE. Who could say they wouldn't have won last year if they had gotten by Brandeis in an OT game? And they lost in the last 30 seconds to Kenyon in 2015 (preventing the Jumbos from playing in the Elite 8....none other than Calvin)? And think there is a momentum that comes from winning one, but certainly after two to three within a short time frame that helps creates a culture of expecting to win, having a certain swagger, and I'm sure huge benefits in terms of recruiting.
Which reminds me, one more thing....to the extent that someone can share this info, what schools is Tufts winning recruits from in head to head battles or in cases where Tufts is one of a recruit's final 3-4 choices? Other NESCACs? Academically oriented D1 mid-majors (Davidson, Colgate, Richmond, Bucknell, etc)?
Gratuitous, self-serving commentary corner....the more I watched Calvin the more I'm not super confident that Kenyon would have beaten Calvin. We probably will mostly remember Tufts beating Calvin, but the Knights certainly were a fantastic team and would have been worthy national champions. But I do think Kenyon would have had a chance. Looking through some of the comments about how Tufts asserted control early in the game, I think it's possible that Kenyon is one of the other few teams that could have taken Calvin out of its game a little too. Calvin is used to having control, even in close games, but I think the high pressure and swarming of the Lords (on a very good day) could have bothered Calvin....not to the same degree as Tufts, because the Lords could not match the overall size, athleticism and physicality of Tufts, but perhaps enough to create a competitive game. After all, the Lords did finish at 18-1-3 which compares pretty well to the eventual Elite 8 and Final Four teams.
PaulNewman, these are all good observations and questions. I'll offer my perspective on some of this, as well as some of what Falconer and others subsequently posted.
I think it's relatively rare for any NESCAC students, let along NESCAC student athletes, to take a full year abroad. Many of the soccer players typically spend spring semester of their junior year abroad. As I've mentioned before, my younger son (who played for Bowdoin) "studied" (I use that term loosely) abroad in Rome during his spring semester. He became fast friends with a Williams soccer player who was in the same program, and they trained occasionally with a low level club team. His Williams colleague became a close enough friend that he attended my son's wedding earlier this year. Pretty cool...
Regarding winter and spring training, my general sense is that NESCAC players have indoor pickup games and occasional captain's practices, but are largely on their own.
When we think about Tufts as being unique among NESCAC schools (larger university, graduate programs, suburban Boston setting, etc.), my sense is that their men's soccer program has become attractive more because of its sustained recent success and Shapiro's reputation than because of its larger university status. In other words, Shapiro broke the paradigm there...and now success begets success...
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 03, 2018, 07:16:29 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
I'm ambivalent about some of the stuff above. I'll pull a DT and say "there are good people on both sides, both sides."
When you write as much as MR does, with very detailed game set-ups and the like, he's going to get a couple of things wrong. I've never seen him as a Tufts hater at all....maybe less ready to crown them before they've been crowned, but he always eventually has given Tufts its due. All of our styles grate on each other after a while. MR and I are probably responsible for at least half of each other's negative karma going back a few years ago....but imagine if people like him and myself and Falconer and 1970s and even BF (D4, can you do something about BF lol???) didn't participate. We all contribute to making all this a bigger deal than it is. MR helps hype Tufts and the rest of the NESCAC and often other programs and players as well. I thought I was done, and then the season started and I gradually got pulled in more and more....and caught the Kenyon bug yet again with another great season I wasn't expecting and then only to be heartbroken yet again. I'm sure some Kenyon folks are sick of me and my ridiculous comments. But I've also elevated Kenyon's profile over the years, and I think it does make some difference when programs have their super-fans and super-defenders. I'm also really embarrassed. It really is remarkable how middle aged and older middle aged men can get so caught up in all this stuff. Pretty easy to diagnose but much harder to treat...
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
I do not think D4pace was taking a jab just countering my point which is what we do on here but thanks to all for the backup from some of the "gang" like NESoccerfan, Buck O and PN. I agree with pretty much all of what PN said here except the part about being middle-aged...lol...I am still in my 30's.
FWIW I wasn't referring to D4pace, I was referring to the person who in their second post ever said you owe Tufts nation an apology for shorting them all season.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 02, 2018, 01:23:04 PM
Totally fair point about not being able to watch as much and you do a great job considering that. I want that to be clear that I completely respect that. 1970s I know for a fact a bunch of different schools in the NESCAC read the boards pretty consistently not that sure about the rest of the country.
Mr. Right while I appreciate your challenge, I'm not super interested in sharing how I would try to beat tufts. I love watching the boys pile up the rings for Coach Shapiro. I definitely agree that all the guys on the team have flaws, mine was speed hence the name, but I think they should be judged relative to the d3 level. You're right if we didn't then we'd be playing in the ACC or with Pulisic and mcKennie in the Bundesliga.
For example, Gavin Tasker is really bad at telling jokes, Coleman was incapable of using an inside voice, and Rojas is way too good at instagram.
I was going to just let this all pass but I feel like pushing just a bit more. I remembered back to last season when I basically had asked you the same question as I wanted you to rate Tufts players and so on and you kind of defused the situation with praise(kind of like now). It actually is a great tactic as most egomaniacs will stop in their tracks to admire the praise and forget the issue entirely BUT others will question why is this person taking this option? What is behind it? I am kinda in the latter camp so I wanna push forward all in good fun. I suppose it is unfair to ask a Jumbo to rate his teammates and completely break down their own team so I will compromise.....
Tufts played two teams this season more than once(Amherst and Colby). Let's look at Amherst for this situation. Hypothetically, let's say Tufts has a match at Home v Amherst tomorrow. Rumor around the Athletic Department is that Shapiro is unable to Coach tomorrow because the Senior Women's Administrator has mandated that he fill in for a Tufts Assistant Football Coach and teach the guy's PE Class. Shapiro balks at teaching that stupid Badminton PE Class because he has an important match against Amherst but the Senior Women's Administrator said he must because the Assistant Football Coach needed the time to watch even more video of Football's next opponent in 9 months. Shapiro shrugs he has not even seen this woman all Fall and has to think real hard about even what her name is. She looks like a Nancy, but was it Judy? No no no it's Debbie...OK but he tries one more way out of this pickle as he starts explaining the phobia he has to the "shuttles" especially if they have the real feathers but Debbie explains Tufts only uses the synthetic "shuttles". Shapiro gives in and smiles and say's see you next year.
Ok sorry got off track.....
Shapiro is out...D4Pace is IN as the Head stud on the sidelines...Tufts has no injuries as every player is available. Tufts has played Amherst twice this season so D4Pace is confident in what he is doing here...So here it is...First off what are you going to do during warm-ups? Usually Head Coaches have a chat about 30-45 minutes before kickoff. Do you go over and chat up Serpone before the match OR do you give him the stink eye? You are new to this whole scene BUT you gotta show the veteran Head Coach of Amherst that you mean business. Do you show him you are the new young buck on the sidelines and you are intense and your boys are that much more intense than yourself? Intimidation is the name of the game...OK then after figuring all that out.......
How does D4Pace plan on playing Amherst? What is the scouting report on the Jeffs? How will Amherst set up? Where do you attack them and take chances? What weaknesses are glaring straight at you that you must take advantage of? What and who are you focusing on defensively? What does Amherst do in attack that worries you the most? On and on.......
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2018, 08:03:53 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 03, 2018, 07:16:29 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
I'm ambivalent about some of the stuff above. I'll pull a DT and say "there are good people on both sides, both sides."
When you write as much as MR does, with very detailed game set-ups and the like, he's going to get a couple of things wrong. I've never seen him as a Tufts hater at all....maybe less ready to crown them before they've been crowned, but he always eventually has given Tufts its due. All of our styles grate on each other after a while. MR and I are probably responsible for at least half of each other's negative karma going back a few years ago....but imagine if people like him and myself and Falconer and 1970s and even BF (D4, can you do something about BF lol???) didn't participate. We all contribute to making all this a bigger deal than it is. MR helps hype Tufts and the rest of the NESCAC and often other programs and players as well. I thought I was done, and then the season started and I gradually got pulled in more and more....and caught the Kenyon bug yet again with another great season I wasn't expecting and then only to be heartbroken yet again. I'm sure some Kenyon folks are sick of me and my ridiculous comments. But I've also elevated Kenyon's profile over the years, and I think it does make some difference when programs have their super-fans and super-defenders. I'm also really embarrassed. It really is remarkable how middle aged and older middle aged men can get so caught up in all this stuff. Pretty easy to diagnose but much harder to treat...
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
I do not think D4pace was taking a jab just countering my point which is what we do on here but thanks to all for the backup from some of the "gang" like NESoccerfan, Buck O and PN. I agree with pretty much all of what PN said here except the part about being middle-aged...lol...I am still in my 30's.
FWIW I wasn't referring to D4pace, I was referring to the person who in their second post ever said you owe Tufts nation an apology for shorting them all season.
Ya I completely agree...He was probably one of the parents barking at the Ref all game. It would be like me saying to him did you go on the field after the game and apologize to the officiating crew. Of course not after the game he was probably stuffing his face of food with the other parents and players.
Mr. Right, he just misses the point. You are an equal opportunity critic, which is what I like about you.
First off Mr. Right, Cheers to you cause that was hilarious. I think you have nailed NESCAC office dynamics on the head from what I've heard. Despite having zero chance at winning a national championship football is still King. I appreciate your ability to see through my tactics. Although once again you have played right into my hands because I think we can all agree that the Amherst game is a bit of an anomaly given their much maligned style of play. So thanks for letting me off the hook.
First off, Coach Serpone and I have always enjoyed a pretty cordial relationship since he recruited me in high school. In fact, I remember it being a little off-putting when he complimented me on my play during one of our games. So I imagine I would go up and have a brief friendly conversation as most NESCAC coaches do pregame. And the reality is Justin is actually a great guy, his sidelines antics are just a little much.
In terms of the Amherst game, I think the key is keeping them in their own half as much as possible. If you are able to press them so that their monsters are winning headers at half field instead of in your box you will have a much better chance of winning. Now that is much easier said than done. Amherst run of 8 sweet sixteens in a row is almost...ALMOST as impressive as Tufts 3 in 5.
And to Paul Newman, first off I think you are almost always spot on with you analysis. I'm not saying Tufts should have had 6 AA on the stage at the final four singing Kumbaya together. But like you I agree that Tasker is one of the top wingers in the country and deserved AA status despite having less points than Calvins backups. The reality is I would bet a million of Mr. Rights bananas that a NESCAC team will never score 96 goals like Calvin just did so Tasker's 7 goals is as impressive as Witte's 15 (he also got robbed of AA) Tufts defense from 2016 still has nightmares about the kid.
Something just occurred to me when you mentioned Tasker. As you know, Tufts just finished an undefeated championship-winning season. But his younger brother's Middlesex team ALSO just finished an undefeated championship-winning season. In fact, they had the exact same record: 18-0-3. That's a nice double.
Quote[When we think about Tufts as being unique among NESCAC schools (larger university, graduate programs, suburban Boston setting, etc.), my sense is that their men's soccer program has become attractive more because of its sustained recent success and Shapiro's reputation than because of its larger university status. In other words, Shapiro broke the paradigm there...and now success begets success.../quote]
truenorth, I think you are on to something here. Tufts certainly has been a very attractive school for a long time but not like one of the hottest scbools in the country. I think you're right and I realize why I was partly wrong in my UAA comparisons with Tufts. It's not about the size or programs or city but rather Shapiro is the difference and now the culture they have now created is the difference. Which is not to say that Shapiro isn't fantastic at selling Tufts, the school, as much as Tufts soccer.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2018, 09:06:47 PM
Mr. Right, he just misses the point. You are an equal opportunity critic, which is what I like about you.
How true! ;)
Quote from: Buck O. on December 03, 2018, 09:31:30 PM
Something just occurred to me when you mentioned Tasker. As you know, Tufts just finished an undefeated championship-winning season. But his younger brother's Middlesex team ALSO just finished an undefeated championship-winning season. In fact, they had the exact same record: 18-0-3. That's a nice double.
Is the younger one going to Tufts???
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 07:45:14 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
I pulled a Blooter and took advantage of an opportunity for economical travel and accommodations, heading off not to Copenhagen, Reykjavik, or Liverpool, but to Greensboro for the Final Four. Doing so allowed me to check off an item on my D3 men's soccer spectating bucket list (up next: a night game at the Rock Bowl). I will attempt to offer a few comments that, for the most part, do not duplicate the excellent observations of MaturinNYC and address issues that may not have been fully discussed or evident on the live stream.
*My biggest regret in attending the games in person is that I did not get to view and, more importantly, hear Ira and Dave's webcast. A family member who tuned in gave high marks to the commentary.
*In an attempt to let the live experience soak in, I went (largely) device-free. I confess that I peeked at the halftimes to see what Mr. Right, Blooter, PaulNewman, and the rest of the gang had to say. [By the way, who occupies the Rob Stone, Stuart Holden, and, most importantly, Alexi Lalas roles? Or is it more like who occupies the Stephen A. Smith ("Trent Vegter is a dear, dear friend..."), Max Kellerman, and Skip Bayless roles? I have my own ideas, but suspect my karma would take a massive hit if I shared them ;)]
*As MaturinNYC mentioned, UNCG was a top notch host and everything about the facilities and presentation elements were first class. It was amazing to see how well the field held up over 6 games (and multiple rainfalls) in less than 36 hours. The grounds crew deserves a ton of credit for keeping the field playable. I cannot remember any (overly) bad bounces. It was a real treat to see players run onto perfectly weighted, defender-splitting through balls that would have rolled mercilessly out of bounds on turf.
*All four teams were well-represented by family, friends, fans, and alumni. Rochester won the custom gear competition hands down. Those snappy blue Final Four t-shirts evoked the spirit of Meliora and had to leave the Yellowjackets on the field feeling very supported. From an auditory perspective, the fans of all four teams brought enough cowbells to keep even Christopher Walken happy. The cannon shots after the goals were very cool on a visceral level and brought a bigtime feel to the games.
*Although not the mecca for coaches that the D1 basketball Final Four is, there were members of quite a few D3 coaching staffs in attendance, including Whitworth, from the Pacific Northwest. It was interesting to see Brandon Bianco, chair of the championships committee, handing out all of the awards. If Case had managed to knock off Calvin in the Elite Eight, would he have presented himself with the Case team award and shaken his own hand? As I watched the title game, I wondered what was going through the mind of Coach Bianco's fellow committee member, Justin Serpone, who had to watch his conference rival claim another championship.
*Calvin's performance against Chicago was, as amply described on these pages, simply stunning. After watching several of their live streams during the season, I had wondered if they could dominate elite teams the way they did their conference opponents. I got my answer!
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
*The energy that Tufts brought to the first 5-10 minutes of the final was palpable, belying my comment about the back-to-back format. Speaking of energy, I was shocked to see in the box score that Calvin only used 13 players. I knew that the Knights didn't do a ton of subbing and that they experienced no drop off when they did, but had no idea that they only used 13 players. That speaks volumes about their level of conditioning. Even more impressive (to me) than the conditioning of the Knights was their collective first touch, especially the wide players, who routinely and calmly received passes in the air from distance in ways that left them ready to dribble or pass as needed. From the Jumbos, I was awed by the real estate covered by Tasker and Lane. I can't imagine that the video feed was able to capture them tracking both back and across the field with pace, thwarting attacks and closing down players with remarkable effectiveness. I smiled at the LeBron-like halftime rest that Coach Shapiro gave Tasker when he subbed Tasker out at the 43-minute mark of the first half.
*Calvin's players, coaches, and supporters exuded pure class in victory and defeat. With a fourth runner-up, the Knights have entered Buffalo Bills and Minnesota Vikings territory, but with Coach Souders at the helm, their chances of winning the big one someday are strong.
*I'm not sure if the webcast caught this, but midway through the first half of the final, when Tufts was racking up the fouls at an alarming rate and zero fouls had been called against Calvin, several Jumbo supporters were vocal in their criticism of the referee. Coach Shapiro turned to the crowd and motioned for quiet, saying that addressing the referee was his job. Nary a peep was heard from the fans regarding the referee for the rest of the game. This incident shows the respect that the Jumbo supporters have for Coach Shapiro.
Final Four done. Rock Bowl, here I come!
Great post. You need to take a risk to post more next year. You seem like one of the few who has an appreciation for D3 across regions. Are you willing to reveal your primary region of interest?
Is JP Dellacamera up for grabs? Julie Foudy? I just want to be somebody...
I thought the announcers were excellent.
And another kudos for one of the best single things in the tournament....the woman who called the CWRU sectional (and even considering that she was in the bag for CWRU.....she was superb.
Twellman and Lalas suck!
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 02, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
I'm curious what the response to another Tufts title is around the Grantham area.....pretty quiet so far.
Since you asked, PaulNewman, I'll give my twenty five cents.
Tufts is clearly the premiere D3 program over the past five years. Clearly. Those used to saying that the road to the title goes through Grantham need a geography lesson.
I'm sure you want more, so I'll offer more. First, IMO the two best Falcon teams in that period were (in order) 2014 and 2016. Tufts beat the former on a deflected shot in the first minute on a small muddy field, while the Falcons hit the woodwork at least once (was it twice?) in the closing minutes. That's as close as it gets. I think the Falcons were probably slightly better, meaning that they might have beaten Tufts in a 3-game series, but that's just my opinion and we'll never know. We do know that Tufts won fair and square and went on to beat two really good teams soundly in the Final Four. They fully deserved that win.
The 2016 team lost at home to Calvin in 2OTs. Calvin deserved to win that one: they clearly dominated the second half, tied the game, and won on a great play. True, the Falcons should have scored at least 3 in the first half, but they have to blame themselves and no one else for not advancing. Calvin then gave Tufts all they could handle in the final, but Tufts prevailed. That's what great teams do. Had the Falcons advance, maybe they beat Tufts, but that's only speculation. What we do know favors Tufts.
Now, the 2017 team was a different story. No one, flat no one, shut them out all year, and they played great defense except on set plays where they sucked on both ends of the field. Perhaps Tufts would have beaten them in the semi-final, if they got past Brandeis, but I actually don't think so. Not b/c Tufts wasn't just as good last year--they might have been better than the Falcons last year--but that particular Falcon team as everyone knows, just refused to lose. I think we can assume that they would have scored at least one against Tufts, just as they scored against everyone else, and perhaps that would have been enough. More likely, it would have been like the Brandeis game, which ended 3-2. Again, this is speculation. What we do know is that, reversing 2016, the Falcons got it done and the Jumbos didn't make the Final Four.
The 2018 Falcon team was (IMO) perhaps (I say perhaps) weaker overall than the 2014, 2016, and 2017 teams--though obviously stronger than the 2015 team that didn't even get a bid. The SRs this year (the 5 big names being West, Ruiz Plaza, J Brautigam, Bell, and Alejos) were just FR in 2015. All 5 started before the season ended--which tells you a lot about that team, since that just never happens in Grantham. The supporting cast was the weakest in a long time. The JR and SO classes on this year's team aren't as deep as the SRs of 2017 and 2018, especially the SO class. However, the FR class is certainly among the very best in Falcon history; we'll see just how good before they are done. Luke Groothoff (as noted by bloots) is the first FR AA (second team, but he should have been 1st team IMO) for the Falcons since Kasiguran, who might have been the single best D3 player of his era. Groothoff could prove to be in that category: time and teammates will tell. Kasiguran's supporting cast was unbelievably good, still (IMO) the greatest Falcon class ever. I know next to nothing about the incoming FR class, except that it might be the largest in number under Brandt or McCarty and it's supposed to contain one of the best CBs out there (someone from the Southwest). That's exactly what's needed if the Falcons are to reclaim supremacy from Tufts. Two or three great classes in a row are what the doctor ordered. Perhaps that's in the works.
I would have loved to see a Falcon-Tufts semi-final: who wouldn't have? Rochester stepped in and prevented that. I congratulated them without any sour grapes already, as anyone can see. They played a great game, earning the right to play Tufts themselves, but as saw they weren't quite in the same class as Tufts. I don't know whether the Falcons would have done any better, but almost certainly they wouldn't have beaten Tufts without CM Ruiz Plaza, CB Cooper Robbins, and three other key players much slowed by injuries (Alejos and Kokolios were starters unable to start), with 7 men in all down or out. I mention this here only b/c you asked for my view, PaulNewman, so I'm giving it. All things considered, this wasn't going to be the year for that Falcon-Jumbo game; the real Falcon team wouldn't have showed up. I think we can assume that West would have scored at least once vs Tufts, since he scored against every other top 25 team this year, but we can't assume that the Falcons would have scored twice or have shut out the Jumbos. Certainly it would have been a barn burner.
So, that's my thoughts. More than three cents worth, granted. I hope others don't resent any of this, which I've kept to myself until now. Had there been no specific request from you, I probably would have remained silent. I missed all 3 games this weekend owing to family commitments and other things--and mostly that would have been true even if the Falcons had made it to Greensboro. Just as I missed the game with Rochester. So, I can't comment specifically on any of the games. The only time I've seen Tufts this year was their home game vs Bates, in which Bates put cement around the wheels of their bus and Tufts proceeded to display an almost studied inability to finish. Clearly they got over that problem at some point in November, which is why they won (apparently).
Congratulations to Tufts. They earned it.
I also feel the 2014 Messiah team was their most talented....very quick, talented and organized...with a great center attacking middie....
Still couldn't handle Tufts attacking center mid though ayy Brother
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:14:14 PM
Still couldn't handle Tufts attacking center mid though ayy Brother
D4.. was comparing the Messiah teams.... you should watch that Messiah Tufts game from 2014... a great battle...with the BOS gladly prevailing...
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
That would be nice for the Jumbos sake! Games still need to be played though... Stay hungry BOS!
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
I really appreciate what you are acknowledging above. There is always an amazing random and almost statistical improbability that yields something that feels and looks like order. I think you're right. Tufts loses there in 2014 and things are much different. Even if Majumder doesn't score at 108:43 or whatever it was in 2016, or Calvin scores in the 2016 title game instead of you guys. The power of the domino effect that you noted is huge. And now the momentum can sort of feed itself.....until something big changes (or not) like a coaching change.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 10:40:44 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
I really appreciate what you are acknowledging above. There is always an amazing random and almost statistical improbability that yields something that feels and looks like order. I think you're right. Tufts loses there in 2014 and things are much different. Even if Majumder doesn't score at 108:43 or whatever it was in 2016, or Calvin scores in the 2016 title game instead of you guys. The power of the domino effect that you noted is huge. And now the momentum can sort of feed itself.....until something big changes (or not) like a coaching change.
I believe Shapiro has publicly referred to that game and win as the changing point of Tufts soccer and made them believe in themselves and what could be done...
D4 May be able to elaborate...
The reality is people often forget that before 2014 tufts had lost in the first round to vassar in 2012 and then not made the 2013 tournament. I remember the 2014 preseason guys watching Messiah highlights and saying how cool it would be to be able to play those guys. And then that selection show that year the team going wow lets hope we make the elite 8 and then well messiah is there. The day before they beat SUNY Cortland 4/5-1 and we were welp here goes nothing. Now if the Tufts team play messiah zero guys in that room would have any fear. That speaks to both the quality of the players they have now and the mentality coach has inspired.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2018, 09:06:47 PM
Mr. Right, he just misses the point. You are an equal opportunity critic, which is what I like about you.
Haha thanks my man...I really focused hard this season on watching Brandeis as much as possible. I am glad I did because between yourself and Bloots and a couple others we all really dug deep on them this season. You can be brutally honest yourself in regards to Deis but very fair which is really all you can ask for on here. Which gets me thinking to myself about 2019 and maybe focusing more of my time on UAA schools. I mean I always caught 5-6 Brandeis games a year but this season I am betting I saw about 10 but I only would see the other UAA schools maybe 2-3 games each if that. Last season I watched Chicago a ton but yea maybe a deeper dive into the UAA is calling.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 09:08:39 PM
First off Mr. Right, Cheers to you cause that was hilarious. I think you have nailed NESCAC office dynamics on the head from what I've heard. Despite having zero chance at winning a national championship football is still King. I appreciate your ability to see through my tactics. Although once again you have played right into my hands because I think we can all agree that the Amherst game is a bit of an anomaly given their much maligned style of play. So thanks for letting me off the hook.
First off, Coach Serpone and I have always enjoyed a pretty cordial relationship since he recruited me in high school. In fact, I remember it being a little off-putting when he complimented me on my play during one of our games. So I imagine I would go up and have a brief friendly conversation as most NESCAC coaches do pregame. And the reality is Justin is actually a great guy, his sidelines antics are just a little much.
In terms of the Amherst game, I think the key is keeping them in their own half as much as possible. If you are able to press them so that their monsters are winning headers at half field instead of in your box you will have a much better chance of winning. Now that is much easier said than done. Amherst run of 8 sweet sixteens in a row is almost...ALMOST as impressive as Tufts 3 in 5.
Ahh you are a manipulative one as now you are steering me in another direction....you know i'll bite I just cannot resist on this one especially since you answered at least half of my previous question....lol wait.....So Serpone complimented your play while the game was going on? Like you were playing RB on the Jeffs field and while running up the field he turned to you in real time and said you were playing a great game?
Honestly when Serpone first came into the league I would hammer him on here for all the on-field antics but now I am almost to the point of feeling indifferent to it all. For 11 years everyone that I talk to has told me what a great guy he is off the field and then you would see him on the field during a game and I just had a hard time putting it all together. I am not fixated on it but I guess now I am more curious/interested in how he goes from Justin to "game day" Justin back to Justin all in the matter of 3 hours. Is there like a purple and white button in the locker room that gets pushed an hour before the game? It is all very interesting.
Now onto Tufts I am really curious about the GK'ing situation moving forward. Without looking I think Tufts has 3 GK'ers on the roster besides Meith and 2 are Soph and 1 Frosh. I could have that wrong. I have not seen any of them play so does one of them have a leg up on the job or is it a complete toss-up going into 2019?
I know people have commented on much stronger Tasker got in the off season and it has really made a difference. He did not lose any speed and he really played out of his mind this year. He was much stronger on the ball. I also think Paoletta was another guy that looks much stronger than last season and he had a breakout season and was Tufts best defender. Kinda curious who will play alongside him next season? Also, the kid Seigelstein really impressed/surprised me this season. After watching some highlight video that someone posted I noticed he was very skilled but thought at least on the highlight he looked a bit slight and would need a year to get accustomed to the College game/get stronger. Well he also looked stronger than that shabby highlight video so maybe it was my eyes but he impressed and along with Daly and Will Raphael those 3 were real solid.
You got a huge Junior class this season so I will be interested to see who gets picked Captain(s). I would say there are probably 4-5 guys that could be Captain so that is something to watch for....
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
This is a very important statement. Shapiro got "2-3 graduation classes" to buy into the vision before all the winning started. Really good Head Coaches know this is how you build a program. Unfortunately, those "2-3 graduation classes" are the one's that do a ton of the heavy lifting but without it none of this happens. The "buying in" part is sometimes the most challenging part of being a Head Coach. For instance, say after those "2-3 graduation classes" left and did all the heavy lifting but the program stayed pretty static it would be demoralizing for the program and especially for the Head Coach who would begin to question his own methods/tactics/ability/recruiting etc etc....Do not get me wrong there are always setbacks but there are a ton of Head Coaches that do not deal with the setbacks properly and the whole thing collapses. It happens all the time and things can spiral out of control real quick..Or sometimes you get a really great class and they buy in but then the next class you bring in you were looking for more raw talent and less "glue guys". Now you think you have what you need because you have some "glue" mixed with all this new talent. You get 2 bad apples from the talent class and they can kill the whole program if you do not have capable leadership in your JR's and SR's to keep them in check. Anyway, because I know what a tight knit program you people have with alums/friends/parents I know that "those 2-3 graduation classes" will never be forgotten for the work they put in to get the ball rolling.
First of all, I want to thank all of you as I read the boards in an effort to understand the d3 soccer landscape (my son is in prep school). Extremely helpful! (And if anyone has prep school related questions I might be able to answer).
For the poster wondering if Tufts is getting d1 recruits, the answer is apparently yes. The Northeast Soccer Journal had a piece on an Andover striker committing to Tufts, despite an offer from Lehigh. https://www.nesoccerjournal.com/phillips-andover-striker-rolando-rabines-commits-to-tufts/
And whoever said Tufts wasn't a hot school-- what? With an admit rate around 18% (probably less!) I would say it's pretty sought after.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2018, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
In a few instances, high D1 level players visit campus--about 20 years ago there was a local player (son of Messiah alumni) who briefly considered Messiah but ended up as an all-conference player at Penn State. He now coaches at D2 or NAIA level.
To have a little fun with my electronic friends from New England: the man I refer to here somewhat cryptically was a two-time AA who played several years for the New England Revolution and later briefly coached a Boston-area D3 team. As I understand it, few thought he'd actually end up at Messiah, but he did express some interest in doing so and did (I think) visit campus with that in mind as a possibility. (I happen to know his father, who taught HS math very successfully just a few miles from Messiah.)
Can anyone fill in the blank? :o
Derek Potteiger?
Exactly. Well done. +K for playing the game.
Quote from: Another Mom on December 04, 2018, 09:06:35 AM
First of all, I want to thank all of you as I read the boards in an effort to understand the d3 soccer landscape (my son is in prep school). Extremely helpful! (And if anyone has prep school related questions I might be able to answer).
For the poster wondering if Tufts is getting d1 recruits, the answer is apparently yes. The Northeast Soccer Journal had a piece on an Andover striker committing to Tufts, despite an offer from Lehigh. https://www.nesoccerjournal.com/phillips-andover-striker-rolando-rabines-commits-to-tufts/
And whoever said Tufts wasn't a hot school-- what? With an admit rate around 18% (probably less!) I would say it's pretty sought after.
Geez....sorry...Tufts is the new Harvard....good enough?
What I meant is that, like I said, Tufts always has been a very attractive school, but I was trying to get at what makes Tufts suddenly THE place to go for soccer recruits, compared to when (as Mr.Right detailed) 8-12 years ago when Tufts was really not even on the radar as a national D3 soccer program. I was crediting the amazing job Shapiro has done, and as truenorth said now "success begets success." Is Tufts hotter than Bowdoin, Midd, Amherst, Williams, Wash U, Hopkins, Haverford...? Are recruits falling all over themselves to get to Tufts because of the engineering program or because of the proximity to Faneuil Hall? BTW, I don't think of Tufts as the place to go for engineering.....more so international relations, and there seem to be a ton of finance/economics majors on the team who want to be the owner of Man United or running hedge funds.
I also was agreeing with truenorth that the ways in which Tufts is different than the other NESCACs (school-wise) may be overrated, including overrated by myself as I have suggested many times that Tufts is really a UAA-type school. Now I'm thinking there are ways Tufts is more like the other NESCACs in ways I don't want to try to articulate right now, and actually DOES fit more with the NESCAC than UAA.
I also don't think Tufts over Lehigh is that tough a call. I am impressed though that Tufts is snagging Andover and Philips Exeter (Weatherbie) kids who probably have their pick of any elite D3 in the country and maybe had a shot at one of the Ivies.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
Close--but no cigar. Neither team would (presumably) object to playing the semifinals on Friday afternoon (early enough to ensure that it's over well before sundown) and the final on Saturday night (well after sundown, to ensure enough time to get dressed for the game after dark). In December, that's easy to do. You give Calvin the later game on Friday and all's well.
D4, or others....
How do coaches of the kinds of programs we talk about here deal with social media, D3soccer.com, etc? Are players prohibited from posting? I'm surprised that there aren't even a bunch of alumni chomping at the bit to post? What is the penalty if a coach figures out a kid is posting?
And what about playing time? How does a Shapiro deal with any disgruntled rumblings. I'm sure there are no promises but it sounds like he lays out for kids what he sees for them ahead....like not playing much frosh year, getting significant minutes and/or starting by soph or junior year, etc, etc.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 09:46:37 AM
Geez....sorry...Tufts is the new Harvard....good enough?
Well, let's not go overboard ;) Appreciate your analysis.
Also agree that it would be easy to turn down Lehigh for Tufts. The article says Rabines had strong interest from the Ivies and other d3 schools as well.
Quote from: Another Mom on December 04, 2018, 10:04:46 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 09:46:37 AM
Geez....sorry...Tufts is the new Harvard....good enough?
Well, let's not go overboard ;) Appreciate your analysis.
Also agree that it would be easy to turn down Lehigh for Tufts. The article says Rabines had strong interest from the Ivies and other d3 schools as well.
Looking for a thumbs up or fist bump emoji.....good luck to your son.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
David Brandt had exactly this attitude after beating Rowan for the first Falcon title in 2000. He wanted a championship so badly, had
almost gone into OT in the Elite Eight in 1999 vs eventual champion SLU, and then found his team down 2-0 at halftime in the 2000 Semifinal vs unbeaten Linfield College. Brandt was not confident his team could come back in win that game. One of the greatest players (IMO) the Falcons ever faced, Chris McDonald (https://golinfieldwildcats.com/hof.aspx?hof=152), had scored twice; the details are now murky in my mind, but I think at least one of his goals was a brilliant free kick from far out. The Falcons had no answer for him.
During the halftime team meeting, however, one of the classiest things I can recall in D3 took place. Skip Roderick, the coach of Messiah's (then) arch-rival Etown (where he still coaches and now has more than 500 wins for the school that ranks second in victories in D3 history), approached Brandt and offered to talk to the players. His team had won it all in 1989, so Skip knew what it takes. He encouraged the Falcon players to come out hard in the second half--and, they did. A major adjustment was to give a bigger role to a very fast FR defender, Brown Vincent. But the biggest change was that Hayden Woodworth simply took over the game from his CM position. He scored himself and set up others. For the first time all season, an opponent consistently got behind the Linfield defenders, and the Falcons came away with a 3-2 win. The 2-0 Final vs Rowan was, IMO, downhill from there. Brandt saw Woodworth and that game as the defining moment in Falcon history. I think he was right. Hat's off to Skip for a huge assist.
Quote from: Falconer on December 04, 2018, 09:29:53 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2018, 03:25:03 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 02:36:40 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 03, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
In a few instances, high D1 level players visit campus--about 20 years ago there was a local player (son of Messiah alumni) who briefly considered Messiah but ended up as an all-conference player at Penn State. He now coaches at D2 or NAIA level.
To have a little fun with my electronic friends from New England: the man I refer to here somewhat cryptically was a two-time AA who played several years for the New England Revolution and later briefly coached a Boston-area D3 team. As I understand it, few thought he'd actually end up at Messiah, but he did express some interest in doing so and did (I think) visit campus with that in mind as a possibility. (I happen to know his father, who taught HS math very successfully just a few miles from Messiah.)
Can anyone fill in the blank? :o
Derek Potteiger?
Exactly. Well done. +K for playing the game.
Thanks. What's curious to me is him leaving Gordon (after taking them to the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament twice in his 4 years) for a D2 program.
Candidly, I don't know much about D2 as far as coaching prestige or pay, but I was always under the impression that D3 competition is stronger. Am I wrong about that? Outside of special circumstances - of which I admit there may be many - can anyone speculate why a coach would jump from a relatively successful d3 position to a D2 position?
Mr. Right other my position you basically nailed. I think it was an injury or some sort of stoppage so we all watched towards the benches to grab water and I'm standing about 10 feet from coach serpone and he goes "Hey how have you been? Good to see you. You're playing real well today and having a good season so far" And to be honest that might be the most rattled I've been after someone saying something to me. I mean you've been screaming your head off, guys are wrestling each other in the penalty box and here we are making small talk. It was pretty bizarre. Happened along those lines all four years but I was prepared for it the rest of the times.
Paul Newman you're right Tufts is as good of as school as it was 10 years ago and the running joke on campus is still that its a bunch of Brown rejects, but I think you're a little off on the engineering factor. While the school itself is more known for the majors you mentioned if a guy wants to play d3 soccer and be an engineer there aren't that many places to look. Can't go to another NESCAC so right away thats a distinguishing factor from the other conferences, you go can go to MIT but the coach there described his situation as trying to find nobel prize winners that could also play sports, so thats a rare mix. So I think the engineering factor is a big selling point to a bunch of guys and there are generally about 6-7 on the team any year.
I think most schools let their guys have social media i don't really know. I mean with us if you're smart enough to get into tufts coach trusts that you're smart enough to handle your business. And if you mess up another guy on the team will step in and tell you to take down the post without coach having to get involved.
In terms of playing time thats a culture thing, obviously guys are disappointed to not be playing more its natural. Every one of the guys was a high school or club star and now they might be the last guy on the bench. But there are so many success stories of that guy becoming a starter, captain, or even all-american that everyone puts their head down and fights to get better. And when the guy playing over you is one of your best friends there is no animosity. You are rooting for him to have the game of his life every time he steps out there even if that relegates you to a spectating role. And all the guys now know, any of the personal hardships of not playing are worth it cause every single guy gets one of those rings.
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 04, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
Paul Newman you're right Tufts is as good of as school as it was 10 years ago and the running joke on campus is still that its a bunch of Brown rejects, but I think you're a little off on the engineering factor. While the school itself is more known for the majors you mentioned if a guy wants to play d3 soccer and be an engineer there aren't that many places to look. Can't go to another NESCAC so right away thats a distinguishing factor from the other conferences, you go can go to MIT but the coach there described his situation as trying to find nobel prize winners that could also play sports, so thats a rare mix. So I think the engineering factor is a big selling point to a bunch of guys and there are generally about 6-7 on the team any year.
RPI, Rochester, most UAAs in general...Swat? Doesn't Trinity have engineering? WPI...Union....
I at least don't think of Tufts as an engineering mecca and I've lived 50 miles away from the campus for 25+ years (not that that means anything). I also think it's possible that Tufts is a bigger deal outside of Massachusetts than it is for folks who have lived in Mass for years.
And you mean none of you guys can nab a Nobel Prize while you're accumulating national titles? ;)
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 04, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
Paul Newman you're right Tufts is as good of as school as it was 10 years ago and the running joke on campus is still that its a bunch of Brown rejects, but I think you're a little off on the engineering factor. While the school itself is more known for the majors you mentioned if a guy wants to play d3 soccer and be an engineer there aren't that many places to look. Can't go to another NESCAC so right away thats a distinguishing factor from the other conferences, you go can go to MIT but the coach there described his situation as trying to find nobel prize winners that could also play sports, so thats a rare mix.
If the MIT coach actually said that, then he's making excuses for himself. The MIT men's basketball team has won 20 games in nine of the last ten seasons, reaching the Elite Eight last season and the Final Four seven seasons ago.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 11:18:46 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 04, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
Paul Newman you're right Tufts is as good of as school as it was 10 years ago and the running joke on campus is still that its a bunch of Brown rejects, but I think you're a little off on the engineering factor. While the school itself is more known for the majors you mentioned if a guy wants to play d3 soccer and be an engineer there aren't that many places to look. Can't go to another NESCAC so right away thats a distinguishing factor from the other conferences, you go can go to MIT but the coach there described his situation as trying to find nobel prize winners that could also play sports, so thats a rare mix. So I think the engineering factor is a big selling point to a bunch of guys and there are generally about 6-7 on the team any year.
RPI, Rochester, most UAAs in general...Swat? Doesn't Trinity have engineering? WPI...Union....
I at least don't think of Tufts as an engineering mecca and I've lived 50 miles away from the campus for 25+ years (not that that means anything). I also think it's possible that Tufts is a bigger deal outside of Massachusetts than it is for folks who have lived in Mass for years.
And you mean none of you guys can nab a Nobel Prize while you're accumulating national titles? ;)
UW-Platteville has a huge engineering program. I think between 1/3 and 1/2 of the 8000 students there are majoring in engineering of some sort. Loras is also the only small college in Iowa with an ABET-accredited engineering program, but it's a tiny, tiny program.
Carnegie Mellon and Johns Hopkins both have excellent engineering programs. In fact, I believe JHU has the #1 ranked biomedical engineering program in country.
Quote from: Mr.Right on December 04, 2018, 01:30:01 AM
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on December 03, 2018, 09:06:47 PM
Mr. Right, he just misses the point. You are an equal opportunity critic, which is what I like about you.
Haha thanks my man...I really focused hard this season on watching Brandeis as much as possible. I am glad I did because between yourself and Bloots and a couple others we all really dug deep on them this season. You can be brutally honest yourself in regards to Deis but very fair which is really all you can ask for on here. Which gets me thinking to myself about 2019 and maybe focusing more of my time on UAA schools. I mean I always caught 5-6 Brandeis games a year but this season I am betting I saw about 10 but I only would see the other UAA schools maybe 2-3 games each if that. Last season I watched Chicago a ton but yea maybe a deeper dive into the UAA is calling.
I hope you do that. I'd be interested to see what you think. A week or two ago, you mentioned how you preferred the play in the UAA to the play in the NESCAC, which you think is excessively conservative. I was going to ask why, given that opinion, you don't watch more UAA games. I never got around to it, but you anticipated my question without my having to ask it.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2018, 11:38:56 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 04, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
Paul Newman you're right Tufts is as good of as school as it was 10 years ago and the running joke on campus is still that its a bunch of Brown rejects, but I think you're a little off on the engineering factor. While the school itself is more known for the majors you mentioned if a guy wants to play d3 soccer and be an engineer there aren't that many places to look. Can't go to another NESCAC so right away thats a distinguishing factor from the other conferences, you go can go to MIT but the coach there described his situation as trying to find nobel prize winners that could also play sports, so thats a rare mix.
If the MIT coach actually said that, then he's making excuses for himself. The MIT men's basketball team has won 20 games in nine of the last ten seasons, reaching the Elite Eight last season and the Final Four seven seasons ago.
More generally, MIT finished second in the Learfield Directors' Cup standings last year, so it's not just hoops.
https://nacda.com/news/2018/5/31/Williams_Captures_Division_III_Learfield_Directors_amp_8217_Cup_Title.aspx
Calvin and Messiah both have large (for undergraduate colleges) engineering programs. POY Geoff Pezon (https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffrey-pezon-a7188834/), regional AA defender Chris Claassen, and many other Falcons have been engineering majors. Most colleges similar to Calvin and Messiah do not have 4-year, on-site engineering programs; in this respect they are like most of the NESCAC schools. For example, Wheaton has a 5-year program, with 3 years at Wheaton and 2 more at almost any other school that offers engineering. In most cases, that makes it impossible to play soccer all 4 years--a big advantage for Calvin and Messiah that is often overlooked when comparing the soccer programs at similar schools. However, according to the Wheaton website, "Students completing their engineering coursework near Wheaton (IIT, Northern Illinois University, or University of Illinois at Chicago) may remain in Wheaton College housing and may continue to participate fully in extra-curricular activities at the College, including athletics." Obviously that still involves 5 years of expenses, not 4, and the choice of engineering programs is very limited. So, the advantage for Calvin and Wheaton remains.
As far as I know, the only majors that probably preclude playing soccer at a place like Messiah or Calvin would be related to music. Such programs typically require students to be heavily involved in a variety of ensembles, mostly or entirely rehearsing in the late afternoon or evening. One of the few Messiah players I know well personally (an AA from the last decade) told me that he considered playing soccer at another college where he'd been admitted to its music conservatory, with the understanding that he could indeed play soccer there and major in music. However, Brandt told him frankly that he couldn't do both soccer and music at Messiah. Regardless of whether what the other school told him was realistic, he ended up doing a business major at Messiah with some music courses and lessons mixed in.
Do others have any information about mixing soccer with a music major?
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 03, 2018, 07:44:00 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*My biggest regret in attending the games in person is that I did not get to view and, more importantly, hear Ira and Dave's webcast. A family member who tuned in gave high marks to the commentary.
Rejoice Ommadawn, that's an easy regret to fix! - https://www.ncaa.com/video/soccer-men/2018-12-01/diii-mens-soccer-2018-championship-recap
Much appreciated!
Quote from: truenorth on December 03, 2018, 08:02:02 PM
I think it's relatively rare for any NESCAC students, let along NESCAC student athletes, to take a full year abroad. Many of the soccer players typically spend spring semester of their junior year abroad. As I've mentioned before, my younger son (who played for Bowdoin) "studied" (I use that term loosely) abroad in Rome during his spring semester. He became fast friends with a Williams soccer player who was in the same program, and they trained occasionally with a low level club team. His Williams colleague became a close enough friend that he attended my son's wedding earlier this year. Pretty cool...
Definitely cool! Some study abroad programs are more soccer-friendly than others and develop reputations along those lines, attracting players from multiple institutions. Opportunities for intrauniversity and club play vary.
Go to a NESCAC school and study physics and then go to a research university for the one or two year Masters in Engineering.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 09:55:59 AM
D4, or others....
How do coaches of the kinds of programs we talk about here deal with social media, D3soccer.com, etc? Are players prohibited from posting? I'm surprised that there aren't even a bunch of alumni chomping at the bit to post? What is the penalty if a coach figures out a kid is posting?
I do think that players observe these boards, but why they don't post i can't say. It may be an unwritten policy - but honestly, there isn't that much upside to them if they do, and the potential pitfalls are too numerous to count (not just from coaches, but opposition and teammates, their school and NCAA, etc.). My guess is that it is largely self-policing: These guys are all about their team, and they know that their words and actions reflect on that team. The actions they put out on the field, struggling to push their program to the next level - and that's what captures our attention. But why put yourself out there with words here with the only reward being getting your individual voice heard? The risk/reward ratio is too far off i'd think.
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 04, 2018, 03:56:59 PM
I do think that players observe these boards, but why they don't post i can't say. It may be an unwritten policy - but honestly, there isn't that much upside to them if they do, and the potential pitfalls are too numerous to count (not just from coaches, but opposition and teammates, their school and NCAA, etc.). My guess is that it is largely self-policing: These guys are all about their team, and they know that their words and actions reflect on that team. The actions they put out on the field, struggling to push their program to the next level - and that's what captures our attention. But why put yourself out there with words here with the only reward being getting your individual voice heard? The risk/reward ratio is too far off i'd think.
This makes sense. I never played -- I was just someone loosely associated with a program through my time writing for and then editing the sports section of my college newspaper -- and for the first couple years I was on here I definitely didn't want people to know who I was. I even started writing for D3soccer.com during that time but wasn't trying to have my name out there. I eventually dropped the resistance when I thought about it and figured that anyone (particularly those associated with the program who could read between the lines about my experiences around the program/in college/etc.) could figure out who I was if they tried hard enough, so I kind of just went "eh, whatever." Regardless, I can understand why players wouldn't be eager to post -- I think you're absolutely spot-on that there's much more potential downside than upside, at least when one is currently playing.
Quote from: Falconer on December 04, 2018, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
Close--but no cigar. Neither team would (presumably) object to playing the semifinals on Friday afternoon (early enough to ensure that it's over well before sundown) and the final on Saturday night (well after sundown, to ensure enough time to get dressed for the game after dark). In December, that's easy to do. You give Calvin the later game on Friday and all's well.
Not as simple as you think, Falconer, for Yeshiva. They have to be done with the game, packed up, on the bus, grab food, back to their hotels, and in their rooms (basically) by sundown. Not just the game being over. They aren't allowed to eat or travel, either. This was tackled in the NCAA tournament last year when Yeshiva had a game in the first round. They played the game at 1pm (if memory serves) just to make sure they were done and in their hotels before sundown ... in March! That time frame moves up a bit in early December when the sun is setting around 5pm.
Just an aside, the day-between-games model is being reviewed and discussed at the Division III level. Several sports have expressed an interest. The challenge becomes the costs associated with such a plan (extra hotel rooms and such - including production crews that put the game on). There is also the risk a Calvin, Wheaton, etc. can't play on one of the days. Example, currently the structure is Friday/Saturday. Extend that out to Friday/Sunday ... and you risk having a Sunday problem... pushing the game(s) and costs to Monday. No one wants to play on Thursday/Saturday, though soccer could absorb it better than a lot of other sports thanks to the time off between quarters and semis. Of course, that also means teams missing pretty much the entire week from school ... and don't get me started on how presidents (especially in the NESCAC) may react to that idea. (Teams arrived as early as Wednesday, I believe, for this year's tournament.) In sports like basketball and others, moving up those dates is not really a great idea since the turn-around time is harder and shorter. The reason I bring up other sports, this is going to end up being an across-the-board decision, I suspect, to avoid sport-specific complaints or challenges. If one sport is going to have the chance to do it, all of them will be given that chance.
Interestingly enough due to Mother Nature, women's lacrosse did have an extra day built in to the schedule. The championship was at 10am on Memorial Day. I hated the time. I also couldn't tell you if we had a better game or not with the day in between.
One other note: is this for just the championship weekend or for the entire tournament? That isn't for this group to debate or decide. I know that is another question that is being debated (having talked to a few committee members and chairs in a few sports about this topic). If it is for the entire tournament, the costs are going to be very significant. If they do it for just the championship weekend, the costs might be lower, but the complaint of "fairness" is going to be raised.
This is a complicated topic and I do not have any sense at this time where it is headed. I do NOT believe it will change for next season as it is not a topic to be voted on in January at the NCAA Convention last I checked. However, it is being talked about which means it may be a topic for January 2020. DIII budgets costs and such for the next five years have been known and planned out - this would add a significant wrinkle to those budget plans.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 04, 2018, 11:38:56 AM
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 04, 2018, 11:00:54 AM
Paul Newman you're right Tufts is as good of as school as it was 10 years ago and the running joke on campus is still that its a bunch of Brown rejects, but I think you're a little off on the engineering factor. While the school itself is more known for the majors you mentioned if a guy wants to play d3 soccer and be an engineer there aren't that many places to look. Can't go to another NESCAC so right away thats a distinguishing factor from the other conferences, you go can go to MIT but the coach there described his situation as trying to find nobel prize winners that could also play sports, so thats a rare mix.
If the MIT coach actually said that, then he's making excuses for himself. The MIT men's basketball team has won 20 games in nine of the last ten seasons, reaching the Elite Eight last season and the Final Four seven seasons ago.
And many other MIT programs including football which have been successful. This very much feels like an excuse or bad wording. I've had many interviews and conversations with the MIT MBB coach who speaks about certainly looking for different talent .. AND the fact talent is on the campus but not interested in playing (he speaks about a couple of 6-6 brothers on campus currently who played basketball but aren't interested as of yet in playing). However, he's never said he's looking for Nobel prize playing students. He talks about how there are plenty of very good academic students who also have an interest in sport and how enticing those interested in MIT and sports is more challenging, but not difficult.
Not sure why the soccer coach is saying things his counterparts in other sports (many which, as pointed out, are successful) aren't.
Forgive the partisan pride that is impossible to disguise, but this news is also relevant to the discussion: A Rochester Captain, Bryce Ikeda, and the starting right-back, Nik Angyal, were just named Google Cloud Academic All-Americans, and they're both engineering students. And just as a reference point, 13 of Rochester's 30 players are currently declared engineering majors, and the program has earned 17 straight USC Team Academic awards. So i agree with others that one of the great draws of DIII soccer is that you can pursue academically-rigorous degrees while also playing high-level soccer. My son was also looking at a high-level DI program, but the coaches there were very honest that they hadn't had an engineering student on the team for a few years, citing a 40-hour/week training/team curriculum. DIII is where you can be a student athlete, and excel at both.
Further, Nik was named the Academic All-American of the Year. And he won the NCAA Elite 90 award in Greensboro. Kid's got a 4.0 in Chemical Engineering. (I could've majored in Basket Weaving, but no way i'd earn a 4.0 in it...).
https://uofrathletics.com/news/2018/12/4/mens-soccer-angyal-ikeda-named-google-cloud-academic-all-americans.aspx - press release of the Google Cloud Academic All-America recipients:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p61-vNgmYCs - brief interview with Nik Angyal
Quote from: Falconer on December 04, 2018, 02:04:45 PM
Calvin and Messiah both have large (for undergraduate colleges) engineering programs.
I have a nephew who graduated from Calvin as an engineering major. He was very pleased with his education, and he found work right away after graduation.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 04, 2018, 04:16:48 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 04, 2018, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
Close--but no cigar. Neither team would (presumably) object to playing the semifinals on Friday afternoon (early enough to ensure that it's over well before sundown) and the final on Saturday night (well after sundown, to ensure enough time to get dressed for the game after dark). In December, that's easy to do. You give Calvin the later game on Friday and all's well.
Not as simple as you think, Falconer, for Yeshiva. They have to be done with the game, packed up, on the bus, grab food, back to their hotels, and in their rooms (basically) by sundown. Not just the game being over. They aren't allowed to eat or travel, either. This was tackled in the NCAA tournament last year when Yeshiva had a game in the first round. They played the game at 1pm (if memory serves) just to make sure they were done and in their hotels before sundown ... in March! That time frame moves up a bit in early December when the sun is setting around 5pm.
Just an aside, the day-between-games model is being reviewed and discussed at the Division III level. Several sports have expressed an interest. The challenge becomes the costs associated with such a plan (extra hotel rooms and such - including production crews that put the game on). There is also the risk a Calvin, Wheaton, etc. can't play on one of the days. Example, currently the structure is Friday/Saturday. Extend that out to Friday/Sunday ... and you risk having a Sunday problem... pushing the game(s) and costs to Monday. No one wants to play on Thursday/Saturday, though soccer could absorb it better than a lot of other sports thanks to the time off between quarters and semis. Of course, that also means teams missing pretty much the entire week from school ... and don't get me started on how presidents (especially in the NESCAC) may react to that idea. (Teams arrived as early as Wednesday, I believe, for this year's tournament.) In sports like basketball and others, moving up those dates is not really a great idea since the turn-around time is harder and shorter. The reason I bring up other sports, this is going to end up being an across-the-board decision, I suspect, to avoid sport-specific complaints or challenges. If one sport is going to have the chance to do it, all of them will be given that chance.
Interestingly enough due to Mother Nature, women's lacrosse did have an extra day built in to the schedule. The championship was at 10am on Memorial Day. I hated the time. I also couldn't tell you if we had a better game or not with the day in between.
One other note: is this for just the championship weekend or for the entire tournament? That isn't for this group to debate or decide. I know that is another question that is being debated (having talked to a few committee members and chairs in a few sports about this topic). If it is for the entire tournament, the costs are going to be very significant. If they do it for just the championship weekend, the costs might be lower, but the complaint of "fairness" is going to be raised.
This is a complicated topic and I do not have any sense at this time where it is headed. I do NOT believe it will change for next season as it is not a topic to be voted on in January at the NCAA Convention last I checked. However, it is being talked about which means it may be a topic for January 2020. DIII budgets costs and such for the next five years have been known and planned out - this would add a significant wrinkle to those budget plans.
How about Saturday/Monday? It works for Calvin and any other school that can't play on Sundays, and instead of having all four teams play on a weekday, only two have to.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 07:45:14 PMGreat post. You need to take a risk to post more next year. You seem like one of the few who has an appreciation for D3 across regions. Are you willing to reveal your primary region of interest?
Thank you for the kind words. New England is probably my primary region of interest, but, thanks to the Internet and a "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" approach to following college soccer, definitely wind up appreciating D3 across regions.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 07:45:14 PM
Is JP Dellacamera up for grabs? Julie Foudy? I just want to be somebody....
Sure, I'm all for self-determination!
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 03, 2018, 07:45:14 PM
And another kudos for one of the best single things in the tournament....the woman who called the CWRU sectional (and even considering that she was in the bag for CWRU.....she was superb.
Agreed!
Quote from: Brother Flounder on December 03, 2018, 10:28:59 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on December 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM
Brother, I promise you I've watched the 2014 game many times over in addition to being there. It is crazy to think the domino effect of that game. A loss that day and I don't think Tufts wins saturday. The current Juniors and Sophomores were recruited with the promise of championships. Tufts managed to win the first two championships on the back of a couple graduation classes that bought into Shapiros vision, but the classes that had already seen the promised land are on a whole different level. No disrespect to that 2014 team which I will remember for my whole life, but we have nothing on the current and future Jumbo editions.
That would be nice for the Jumbos sake! Games still need to be played though... Stay hungry BOS!
All this talk of 2014 reminded me of another couple of details I forgot to post about yesterday. In mentioning alumni support at the Final Four, I should have noted that there were rumors of a sighting of Ye Olde Dragon Slayer in attendance (no word if he had his slingshot). Also, Aroh of Tufts was spied on crutches BEFORE the Rochester game. I wonder what would have happened to the line in Vegas if that nugget had been made public.
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 04, 2018, 03:56:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 09:55:59 AM
D4, or others....
How do coaches of the kinds of programs we talk about here deal with social media, D3soccer.com, etc? Are players prohibited from posting? I'm surprised that there aren't even a bunch of alumni chomping at the bit to post? What is the penalty if a coach figures out a kid is posting?
I do think that players observe these boards, but why they don't post i can't say. It may be an unwritten policy - but honestly, there isn't that much upside to them if they do, and the potential pitfalls are too numerous to count (not just from coaches, but opposition and teammates, their school and NCAA, etc.). My guess is that it is largely self-policing: These guys are all about their team, and they know that their words and actions reflect on that team. The actions they put out on the field, struggling to push their program to the next level - and that's what captures our attention. But why put yourself out there with words here with the only reward being getting your individual voice heard? The risk/reward ratio is too far off i'd think.
To be clear, fellow Rochester parent, I don't think current players should be posting. I'm just surprised that all (or most) have such great restraint when they do obviously pay attention. I think they are often more mature than us parents. I would think there would be more after graduating, and there is a history of some dipping their toes in for a month or a season or two but very few have become "regulars." Again, this partly may be a function of how much more adept they are at moving on with their lives....or just a necessity. My kid is a very proud alum but med school doesn't allow a lot of free time for even catching most of the streams much less scouring this board all day.
And, please, brag away. I'm really happy to see Rochester get some very deserved attention (not just the soccer program but also the school).
I wonder if the prior MIT coach, now doing very well at W&L, had similar concerns as the current coach in terms of recruiting or developing/maintaining a strong program.
While we're in bragging mode, here's a nice article on David Anderson who was just named a 2nd team AA along with Brett Lowry. I think Buck O mentioned that Anderson used to live in the Boston area and played club for the Greater Boston Bolts.
https://www.kenyon.edu/middle-path/story/lab-leader/
Just watched Pardon The Interruption on ESPN and Tony Kornhiser had a shoutout to coach Josh Shapiro and Tufts for winning the championship again... way to rep D3 Soccer (and Tufts if you're a Jumbo fan)!
Quote from: Buck O. on December 04, 2018, 05:23:11 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 04, 2018, 04:16:48 PM
Quote from: Falconer on December 04, 2018, 09:49:21 AM
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*The elephant in the room of this whole event is the back-to-back format. It almost guarantees that the title game is going to be more ragged than the semifinal matches. I am waiting (but not holding my breath) for the Final Four that features Calvin, Yeshiva, and two other teams. They would have to play the semifinals on Friday and the final on Monday, right?
Close--but no cigar. Neither team would (presumably) object to playing the semifinals on Friday afternoon (early enough to ensure that it's over well before sundown) and the final on Saturday night (well after sundown, to ensure enough time to get dressed for the game after dark). In December, that's easy to do. You give Calvin the later game on Friday and all's well.
Not as simple as you think, Falconer, for Yeshiva. They have to be done with the game, packed up, on the bus, grab food, back to their hotels, and in their rooms (basically) by sundown. Not just the game being over. They aren't allowed to eat or travel, either. This was tackled in the NCAA tournament last year when Yeshiva had a game in the first round. They played the game at 1pm (if memory serves) just to make sure they were done and in their hotels before sundown ... in March! That time frame moves up a bit in early December when the sun is setting around 5pm.
Just an aside, the day-between-games model is being reviewed and discussed at the Division III level. Several sports have expressed an interest. The challenge becomes the costs associated with such a plan (extra hotel rooms and such - including production crews that put the game on). There is also the risk a Calvin, Wheaton, etc. can't play on one of the days. Example, currently the structure is Friday/Saturday. Extend that out to Friday/Sunday ... and you risk having a Sunday problem... pushing the game(s) and costs to Monday. No one wants to play on Thursday/Saturday, though soccer could absorb it better than a lot of other sports thanks to the time off between quarters and semis. Of course, that also means teams missing pretty much the entire week from school ... and don't get me started on how presidents (especially in the NESCAC) may react to that idea. (Teams arrived as early as Wednesday, I believe, for this year's tournament.) In sports like basketball and others, moving up those dates is not really a great idea since the turn-around time is harder and shorter. The reason I bring up other sports, this is going to end up being an across-the-board decision, I suspect, to avoid sport-specific complaints or challenges. If one sport is going to have the chance to do it, all of them will be given that chance.
Interestingly enough due to Mother Nature, women's lacrosse did have an extra day built in to the schedule. The championship was at 10am on Memorial Day. I hated the time. I also couldn't tell you if we had a better game or not with the day in between.
One other note: is this for just the championship weekend or for the entire tournament? That isn't for this group to debate or decide. I know that is another question that is being debated (having talked to a few committee members and chairs in a few sports about this topic). If it is for the entire tournament, the costs are going to be very significant. If they do it for just the championship weekend, the costs might be lower, but the complaint of "fairness" is going to be raised.
This is a complicated topic and I do not have any sense at this time where it is headed. I do NOT believe it will change for next season as it is not a topic to be voted on in January at the NCAA Convention last I checked. However, it is being talked about which means it may be a topic for January 2020. DIII budgets costs and such for the next five years have been known and planned out - this would add a significant wrinkle to those budget plans.
How about Saturday/Monday? It works for Calvin and any other school that can't play on Sundays, and instead of having all four teams play on a weekday, only two have to.
I think for those who want to attend the championships and other reasons ... playing a title game on Monday, other than Memorial Day (lacrosse), is not a very attractive idea. DI men's basketball does it ... but we all know the reasons for that. DI women's used to play on Sunday/Tuesday ... they abandoned that recently for Friday/Sunday.
I just don't think presidents love the idea of playing on Monday ... but that's my theory.
Let me start by saying I appreciate the kind words expressed about Ira and my work this weekend. My purpose with questions was not to garner such comments, but they are appreciated as well.
We had a terrific crew running cameras and the production. I think that went a long way for Ira and I. We had some behind-the-scenes challenges ahead of the first game which made the Calvin-Chicago game interesting, but it was resolved and we rolled along from there. I will say, having more people know we are there and chatting with us helped our broadcasts as well. Being DIII guys, I think people appreciated that we were taking this seriously. I think sometimes non-DIII broadcasters are kept at arm's length because of the numerous instances of them not taking the division seriously ... but I digress.
Now to some thoughts shared...
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 03, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
I watched most of both games on Friday.
1) I know you're looking more for technical feedback, but... You guys were solid. I made an in-game comment giving one of you grief about a fairly routine catch by a GK that got blown out of proportion. But if that's the most glaring "error" (which it wasn't, it was just kind of funny), you guys killed it. (I don't have a ton of patience for announcers who clearly don't know the game, but insist on chattering away like they're calling a horse race or something.)
We will have to agree to disagree. I saw your comment. I think I know the play you are talking about. Ira and I are both keepers ourselves (can't remember if Ira played in college, but he's playing still now; I did play through college) and so we do come from a pretty experienced background. If I am critical of a play, and I try to not be critical all that often (resisting the urge more often than not), then there is something I don't like about the play. I also think it can be a teaching moment for those watching at home like my son who soaks up sports like a sponge and is showing he may be following in his dad's footsteps of being a goalie (he ain't bad for age 9 and not much formal lessons).
I also can't remember the exact play, but I sense it to be a punch out. I thought he could play it with his hands and catch it, but we both agreed that for a punch it was an outstanding punch as a result.
And yes, I have made a conscious effort to try and let the games breathe. I think it helped GREATLY that our production crew not only fed in NAT sounds (natural sound) into our headsets, but also that it was near the field so we could hear aspects of the game. That allowed me to naturally stop and listen or allow it to be heard. When you don't have that, the natural instinct is to cover "dead air" with commentary. So a nice combo of the crew providing a wonderful aspect to the game and my conscious effort to let the game breathe (in all my broadcasting) seems to have been the right mix.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 03, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
2) And, yes, your concerns are accurate... The commercial breaks were, for the most part, just the blue screen noting we were in a break.
Disappointing. That is something I think needs to be changed. If we are tossing to break, there is content that can be run especially created for DIII specifically.
Quote from: Buck O. on December 03, 2018, 05:38:44 PM
The commercial break was annoying. I figure the folks watching are interested in D3 soccer generally and might have enjoyed some programing like a season retrospective or an interview with a NCAA D3 representative talking about the future. Even a preview of the woman's game might been fun.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 03, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
Now, I might be in the minority, but unless you guys have the ability/production capacity, I'm not really sure it's worth doing a half-time show. Most people watching know they have 15 minutes to hop up and go get some stuff done, and I just don't think many folks want to sit through 8-10 minutes of analysis. Now, I think you could tell the audience "We're going to take a 10 minute break, and when we come back, we'll have first half highlights and talk strategy for the 2nd half" or whatever.
But as you mentioned, you guys need a break. As folks who sit back and think about big time broadcasts, they throw it to studio (or down on the field for the panel) and yammer on for a few commercial breaks. Then they come back to the booth before kick-off (sometimes with very little banter/analysis, sometimes with a condensed package of what the studio panel covered.
As a sports and news TV producer in my career, I want to see halftime be a bit "more." As a DIII guy, I want to see the halftimes be something to help talk about DIII, though not patronizing. As a broadcaster calling six games in three days (four in one), I like having the halftimes "off." :)
Yes, in most "halftimes" for sports, they toss to a studio set for other voices to breakdown what has happened and what has gone on. Maybe a feature story has been put together. Those resources just don't exist for these productions.
I do know that the past tactic of "here is a wide shot of the field/court and a score for halftime" was NOT received well within the division. It was felt like a "it's Division III, why should we care about providing any halftime content like highlights or anything?" At the same time, most championships didn't even include an analyst - just one person calling the games. I appreciate the changes to at least include an analyst and something at hafltime. Sadly, it appears "commercial breaks" are just a full screen graphic which is wasted time. There needs to be something we can add to these halftimes especially since there are DIII PSAs that can be run (I run them all the time; schools run them all the time) including a brand new one that is more than 3 minutes in length.
We could also include interviews with committee members (or chair) or others who are on site. It just takes a little more creativity. Sadly, these championships don't always include individuals with DIII as a background - which I know makes some of the interview ideas a little more difficult to execute without it feeling like, "isn't DIII so great?! Tell me more about why DIII is so great!"
Quote from: daddyEzK on December 03, 2018, 12:41:15 PM
I had some problems staying connected during the Rochester game, but don't know wwhere the problem was.
Quote from: Buck O. on December 03, 2018, 05:38:44 PM
As others have reported, I never saw any ads during the commercial breaks. Acura and Fruit of the Loom got their money's worth nevertheless, as I saw one of their ads whenever I had to reload the stream, as the stream would buffer for a bit and then quit. This problem was much worse for the women's final: I was actually playing the stream on my PC and my tablet simultaneously so that I could switch from one to other whenever one of them would freeze up, as it would take a couple of minutes to restart and sit through the requisite ad. But in every game, it seemed like I had to reload whenever you went to a commercial break. (I've noticed this issue with other streams as well.)
This is what my family reported to me and others. That sometimes people had to reload the games. My wife described having to reload the game after regulation and the overtimes of the women's title game. The broadcast would apparently stop after regulation, then again after the overtimes (or after each OT).
That's a problem. There are streaming problems that many can have for other reasons. But for people to need to reload during either every commercial break or after the conclusion of aspects of the game... that's something larger happening.
Inconsistency amongst viewers may make it more difficult to figure out, but I was curious if what my family was experiencing (on a very high-speed connection and on a very solid device) was isolated or not.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*My biggest regret in attending the games in person is that I did not get to view and, more importantly, hear Ira and Dave's webcast. A family member who tuned in gave high marks to the commentary.
You should have tried tuning in while there! :)
We actually ran into a few people who told us they were listening while sitting/standing in the stands. I know people do that with radio broadcasts, but I was a little taken aback the video was being used the same way. Give it a try.
I actually meant to give those tuning in a "shout out" to see if we got any reactions from the stands, but it slipped my mind once we were into the broadcast.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 03, 2018, 06:31:32 PM
*I'm not sure if the webcast caught this, but midway through the first half of the final, when Tufts was racking up the fouls at an alarming rate and zero fouls had been called against Calvin, several Jumbo supporters were vocal in their criticism of the referee. Coach Shapiro turned to the crowd and motioned for quiet, saying that addressing the referee was his job. Nary a peep was heard from the fans regarding the referee for the rest of the game. This incident shows the respect that the Jumbo supporters have for Coach Shapiro.
Oh ... we caught some of it to be sure! I saw a fan trying to tell another fan, who clearly was losing his mind, to chill out. I saw him first after someone (or more than one) on the bench turned toward him and either reacted or just looked (can't remember). In hindsight, it very well could have been Coach Shapiro as well - it's a bit of a blur right now. I saw the fan point towards the scoreboard and at something else that made me immediately realize it was all about fouls. At the time the foul count on the board was something like 9-2.
I made a reference to it and how fans love to think that foul counts are supposed to be "equal." That somehow a well officiated game has even foul counts. At the time, Tufts was being
very aggressive especially in the midfield and with their forwards. There were a lot of fouls where they were coming from behind and hitting the player while attempting to get to the ball. So, I commented about it and referenced how the same thing happens in basketball. Also, that because the fouls were on the board it was feeding the frenzy to fans who wanted "equality." I softballed it for Ira, but I can't remember where he hit it. Shortly afterward, the "fan" in question went back to where he was sitting, still complaining about the foul count, and then I never noticed it again.
I do agree it shows respect for Coach Shapiro ... but I also wish fans (in all sports) would try and be more educated about the game and how it gets called. There is a fan for a women's basketball team I call games for who loses his mind over everything ... including fouls by his daughter where are more than obvious. It takes everything in me and others at the table not to turn around and set the guy straight ... anyway.
Tune in next time! :)
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 06:56:50 PM
While we're in bragging mode, here's a nice article on David Anderson who was just named a 2nd team AA along with Brett Lowry. I think Buck O mentioned that Anderson used to live in the Boston area and played club for the Greater Boston Bolts.
https://www.kenyon.edu/middle-path/story/lab-leader/
Yes, that's right. Thanks for sharing.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 06:44:04 PM
To be clear, fellow Rochester parent,
What, I'm not alone!?! :)
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 06:44:04 PM
I don't think current players should be posting. I'm just surprised that all (or most) have such great restraint when they do obviously pay attention. I think they are often more mature than us parents.
Yes! Yes they are.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2018, 06:44:04 PM
I would think there would be more after graduating, and there is a history of some dipping their toes in for a month or a season or two but very few have become "regulars." Again, this partly may be a function of how much more adept they are at moving on with their lives....or just a necessity. My kid is a very proud alum but med school doesn't allow a lot of free time for even catching most of the streams much less scouring this board all day.
I think you're right there - i know when i graduated...well, outside of DARPA there weren't chat boards then, BUT had there been i wouldn't have time to hit them either. Starting a life does consume your time. But at some point they should be joining us in the hobby. D4, share this link ;-)
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 04, 2018, 09:45:18 PMAs a sports and news TV producer in my career, I want to see halftime be a bit "more." As a DIII guy, I want to see the halftimes be something to help talk about DIII, though not patronizing. As a broadcaster calling six games in three days (four in one), I like having the halftimes "off." :)
Yes, in most "halftimes" for sports, they toss to a studio set for other voices to breakdown what has happened and what has gone on. Maybe a feature story has been put together. Those resources just don't exist for these productions.
I do know that the past tactic of "here is a wide shot of the field/court and a score for halftime" was NOT received well within the division. It was felt like a "it's Division III, why should we care about providing any halftime content like highlights or anything?" At the same time, most championships didn't even include an analyst - just one person calling the games. I appreciate the changes to at least include an analyst and something at hafltime. Sadly, it appears "commercial breaks" are just a full screen graphic which is wasted time. There needs to be something we can add to these halftimes especially since there are DIII PSAs that can be run (I run them all the time; schools run them all the time) including a brand new one that is more than 3 minutes in length.
We could also include interviews with committee members (or chair) or others who are on site. It just takes a little more creativity. Sadly, these championships don't always include individuals with DIII as a background - which I know makes some of the interview ideas a little more difficult to execute without it feeling like, "isn't DIII so great?! Tell me more about why DIII is so great!
I agree that the broadcasters need halftime "off". For several years (a bit less regularly the past two years) on the Messiah men's broadcasts, I have spelled the announcers by doing the halftime segment (despite a voice for print media and no training or previous experience). Now this is without any streaming video, just a still shot with the score, I believe. But the point is that the announcers need the break, but it's nice to have halftime content even if I agree that for some people (myself included sometimes) halftime is a chance to grab something to eat or take care of some tasks/things-to-do. But, if there was halftime content and it was well done, you would give people a reason to hang around through the break or be quicker to return. I think a mix of live material and some pre-recorded material would be awesome. There's all sorts of things you could do and cover, but obviously there's a lot of question marks about who, how, and financing it. But there's a lot of potential here.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 04, 2018, 09:45:18 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 03, 2018, 01:49:24 PM
I watched most of both games on Friday.
1) I know you're looking more for technical feedback, but... You guys were solid. I made an in-game comment giving one of you grief about a fairly routine catch by a GK that got blown out of proportion. But if that's the most glaring "error" (which it wasn't, it was just kind of funny), you guys killed it. (I don't have a ton of patience for announcers who clearly don't know the game, but insist on chattering away like they're calling a horse race or something.)
We will have to agree to disagree. I saw your comment. I think I know the play you are talking about. Ira and I are both keepers ourselves (can't remember if Ira played in college, but he's playing still now; I did play through college) and so we do come from a pretty experienced background. If I am critical of a play, and I try to not be critical all that often (resisting the urge more often than not), then there is something I don't like about the play. I also think it can be a teaching moment for those watching at home like my son who soaks up sports like a sponge and is showing he may be following in his dad's footsteps of being a goalie (he ain't bad for age 9 and not much formal lessons).
I'm a goalie, too. Yeah us! Not gonna debate something that was really REALLY not a big deal, especially because the overall PbP and analysis was so good. I'm pretty harsh regarding commentary on goalkeeping, because even at the highest levels, people make all sorts of ridiculous critical comments and much more often than not they really don't know what they're talking about. I'd also point out that in the particular play I'm talking about, you guys weren't really criticizing the goalie, you were just reacting to a long distance shot and how the goalie chose to deal with it.
Unsure if anyone else saw this, but Tufts got a shout out on PTI. Very cool - when is the last time anything D3 made it on to ESPN?!
https://twitter.com/TuftsMensSoccer/status/1070093360264871938
Quote from: oldonionbag on December 05, 2018, 03:44:34 PM
Unsure if anyone else saw this, but Tufts got a shout out on PTI. Very cool - when is the last time anything D3 made it on to ESPN?!
https://twitter.com/TuftsMensSoccer/status/1070093360264871938
Too bad Tommy Smyth isn't on ESPN2 doing color commentary for UCL games anymore. Maybe during halftime he'd have the opportunity to talk about how Tufts managed to put the ball "into the back of the old onion bag" 13 times during the NCAA tourney ;)
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 04, 2018, 04:35:16 PM
So i agree with others that one of the great draws of DIII soccer is that you can pursue academically-rigorous degrees while also playing high-level soccer. My son was also looking at a high-level DI program, but the coaches there were very honest that they hadn't had an engineering student on the team for a few years, citing a 40-hour/week training/team curriculum.
Amazingly, even a few (but certainly not all) of the Ivies don't prefer their athletes to major in engineering.
Quote from: oldonionbag on December 05, 2018, 03:44:34 PM
Unsure if anyone else saw this, but Tufts got a shout out on PTI. Very cool - when is the last time anything D3 made it on to ESPN?!
https://twitter.com/TuftsMensSoccer/status/1070093360264871938
Unfortunately, it was a couple of weeks ago when a
thug basketball player for Fitchburg State ran over and cold-cocked a Nichols player with a forearm shiver to the face in the middle of a men's basketball game when the Nichols player was just standing in the corner admiring his shot.
D3 nods really aren't all that rare on ESPN. Remember, the Worldwide Leader has countless hours per day of sports news that have to be filled with highlights of some sort or another.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 05, 2018, 11:44:20 PM
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 04, 2018, 04:35:16 PM
So i agree with others that one of the great draws of DIII soccer is that you can pursue academically-rigorous degrees while also playing high-level soccer. My son was also looking at a high-level DI program, but the coaches there were very honest that they hadn't had an engineering student on the team for a few years, citing a 40-hour/week training/team curriculum.
Amazingly, even a few (but certainly not all) of the Ivies don't prefer their athletes to major in engineering.
As one data point, my son had several Brown teammates who were engineering majors. My anecdotal experience with Ivy athletes is that most of them are pretty darn bright, and they're not just "fortunate recruited athletes"...but some are more dedicated to their academics than others during their four years...
Quote from: blooter442 on December 05, 2018, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: oldonionbag on December 05, 2018, 03:44:34 PM
Unsure if anyone else saw this, but Tufts got a shout out on PTI. Very cool - when is the last time anything D3 made it on to ESPN?!
https://twitter.com/TuftsMensSoccer/status/1070093360264871938
Too bad Tommy Smyth isn't on ESPN2 doing color commentary for UCL games anymore. Maybe during halftime he'd have the opportunity to talk about how Tufts managed to put the ball "into the back of the old onion bag" 13 times during the NCAA tourney ;)
Haha, well played. Hopefully it would come with the manic shouting we've come to know and love!
Hi all, been a casual observer of the page and D3 soccer in general for the past few years, with this season over, deciding to actively post a little bit more (or as actively as I can with a busy work schedule :))...as you can hopefully tell by the name, I mainly support Stevens Tech, as I am from the area, and have made it to a few games in recent years (view from their field is incredible, highly recommend a trip). After losing to national champs twice in a row, and losing by 1 goal and giving both Tufts of 2018 and Messiah of 2017 a run for their money, the Ducks have got to be hungry to get back at it next year.Especially after watching Tufts roll through Amherst and Montclair in the rounds of 3 and 4, Ducks (who lasted 80 minutes at 0-0) will feel that playing Tufts on a bye was an unfair draw. Carrying out that theme of some teams poised to break out next year, anyone have any teams in mind? Other than Stevens, schools like Eastern, NYU, CT College, F&M, all seem candidates to try to break the status quo and reach the Final 4....let me know your guys thoughts, happy to be joining the page as a user.
Welcome DucksFan. I loosely follow the Ducks as there are plenty of local players on the roster and I'm always curious to see the transition from HS to college. It'll be nice to see another NJ voice on the boards.
Quote from: DucksFan02 on December 07, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
...losing to national champs twice in a row...
yup, i can relate to that feeling DucksFan ;-)
In descending order of confidence - i'd name both NYU & Case Western, who fielded young•ish lineups this season in the UAA and both impressed. Brockport State made it to the 2nd round with a bunch of young talent, so look out for them from the SUNYAC (in addition to Cortland, Oneonta & next year's surprise - New Paltz). In the Liberty League there's St. Lawrence, but probably 2-3 other names that can make deep runs if they find consistency.
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 08, 2018, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: DucksFan02 on December 07, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
...losing to national champs twice in a row...
yup, i can relate to that feeling DucksFan ;-)
In descending order of confidence - i'd name both NYU & Case Western, who fielded young•ish lineups this season in the UAA and both impressed. Brockport State made it to the 2nd round with a bunch of young talent, so look out for them from the SUNYAC (in addition to Cortland, Oneonta & next year's surprise - New Paltz). In the Liberty League there's St. Lawrence, but probably 2-3 other names that can make deep runs if they find consistency.
It will be an uphill climb for SLU, who graduate a stellar senior class that includes the starting GK, the starting CBs, and offensive talent that accounted for approximately 80% of the Saints' scoring.
SLU has gone through major talent turnover over the years and always finds ways to bounce back. They had some of the best offensive players in program history from 2010-2013 and handled their graduation fine. I'm confident Tosh keeps the program in the top echelon of the league.
Quote from: stlawus on December 09, 2018, 05:24:51 PM
SLU has gone through major talent turnover over the years and always finds ways to bounce back. They had some of the best offensive players in program history from 2010-2013 and handled their graduation fine. I'm confident Tosh keeps the program in the top echelon of the league.
I agree 100%, but think that there's a mountain of difference between keeping "the program in the top echelon of the league" (SLU is ALWAYS my default favorite) and making a deep run in the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: DucksFan02 on December 07, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
Hi all, been a casual observer of the page and D3 soccer in general for the past few years, with this season over, deciding to actively post a little bit more (or as actively as I can with a busy work schedule :))...as you can hopefully tell by the name, I mainly support Stevens Tech, as I am from the area, and have made it to a few games in recent years (view from their field is incredible, highly recommend a trip). After losing to national champs twice in a row, and losing by 1 goal and giving both Tufts of 2018 and Messiah of 2017 a run for their money, the Ducks have got to be hungry to get back at it next year.Especially after watching Tufts roll through Amherst and Montclair in the rounds of 3 and 4, Ducks (who lasted 80 minutes at 0-0) will feel that playing Tufts on a bye was an unfair draw. Carrying out that theme of some teams poised to break out next year, anyone have any teams in mind? Other than Stevens, schools like Eastern, NYU, CT College, F&M, all seem candidates to try to break the status quo and reach the Final 4....let me know your guys thoughts, happy to be joining the page as a user.
Have enjoyed going to Hoboken a few times to see Haverford play the Ducks. Haven't enjoyed the results, but like your stadium and appreciate how well your team plays.
Haverford has won the centennial three times in the past four years, but only gets mentioned as afterthought on these boards after F&M and Hopkins. Count them out at your own peril
Kind of nitpicky, but I don't think people put F&M over Haverford very much here. Obviously, this is just a gut feeling.
I never count out the Fords, from personal experience. ;-)
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 10, 2018, 12:43:20 PM
Kind of nitpicky, but I don't think people put F&M over Haverford very much here. Obviously, this is just a gut feeling.
I never count out the Fords, from personal experience. ;-)
Agreed. daddyEzK simply took offense that Haverford wasn't given the love he felt they deserved (understandable since his kid is on the team). However, any "shade" given to Haverford was probably due in large part to having a new coach and losing 4 of their first 7 games. I believe Haverford usually gets plenty of love, if there such a thing, though daddy is new to the boards this year so his experience is limited. Just my two cents.
Quote from: daddyEzK on December 10, 2018, 09:42:11 AM
Quote from: DucksFan02 on December 07, 2018, 03:13:35 PM
Hi all, been a casual observer of the page and D3 soccer in general for the past few years, with this season over, deciding to actively post a little bit more (or as actively as I can with a busy work schedule :))...as you can hopefully tell by the name, I mainly support Stevens Tech, as I am from the area, and have made it to a few games in recent years (view from their field is incredible, highly recommend a trip). After losing to national champs twice in a row, and losing by 1 goal and giving both Tufts of 2018 and Messiah of 2017 a run for their money, the Ducks have got to be hungry to get back at it next year.Especially after watching Tufts roll through Amherst and Montclair in the rounds of 3 and 4, Ducks (who lasted 80 minutes at 0-0) will feel that playing Tufts on a bye was an unfair draw. Carrying out that theme of some teams poised to break out next year, anyone have any teams in mind? Other than Stevens, schools like Eastern, NYU, CT College, F&M, all seem candidates to try to break the status quo and reach the Final 4....let me know your guys thoughts, happy to be joining the page as a user.
Have enjoyed going to Hoboken a few times to see Haverford play the Ducks. Haven't enjoyed the results, but like your stadium and appreciate how well your team plays.
Haverford has won the centennial three times in the past four years, but only gets mentioned as afterthought on these boards after F&M and Hopkins. Count them out at your own peril
How in the world did you turn a post about Stevens into an opportunity to yet again squawk about Haverford being dissed???
Haverford has gotten a ton of love on this board over the past several years. No need to keep obsessing about F&M who has gone to about 6-7 straight NCAA tournaments with multiple Elite 8 and Sweet 16 appearances. We don't have to vote one over the other.
"Count them out at your own peril..."??? Really? Are you kidding? What in the world does that mean? Peril is now a thing in D3 soccer?
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 10, 2018, 12:43:20 PM
Kind of nitpicky, but I don't think people put F&M over Haverford very much here. Obviously, this is just a gut feeling.
I never count out the Fords, from personal experience. ;-)
Stevens downed the Fords 3-1 this year, granted in an earlier game, with Haverford's goal coming on the last play of the game...presumably Stevens dumped their bench at this point? Additionally the Ducks lost 1-0 to F&M... In any case, appears that F&M more consistent in regular season out of conference + NCAA tourney whereas Haverford does better in CC tourney and regular season...correct me if wrong, on any of that, not a huge follower of the CC.
Need to get Loras back in the mix. Love when the duhawks are making a run in the tourney and their supporters come out.
Quote from: diamondJOEY on December 12, 2018, 09:43:18 AM
Need to get Loras back in the mix. Love when the duhawks are making a run in the tourney and their supporters come out.
The Loras contingent was quieter this year than in any year I can remember. The lack of hubris was refreshing.
Quote from: blue_jays on December 12, 2018, 10:18:30 AM
Quote from: diamondJOEY on December 12, 2018, 09:43:18 AM
Need to get Loras back in the mix. Love when the duhawks are making a run in the tourney and their supporters come out.
The Loras contingent was quieter this year than in any year I can remember. The lack of hubris was refreshing.
Agreed.
Not a whole lot to cheer for this year. The ARC (IIAC) was not very exciting this year. I cant wait for the North region to get some quality teams back into it.
Quote from: diamondJOEY on December 12, 2018, 12:42:18 PM
I cant wait for the North region to get some quality teams back into it.
The North has been in it? It just hasn't been Loras as previous years. I personally have no interest in promoting Loras and it's "soccer" style. It is disgraceful and quite distasteful to watch. If they choose to put the ball on the ground and string more than 3 passes then I do change my stance on the program, but not until then.
Quote from: DucksFan02 on December 11, 2018, 09:05:31 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 10, 2018, 12:43:20 PM
Kind of nitpicky, but I don't think people put F&M over Haverford very much here. Obviously, this is just a gut feeling.
I never count out the Fords, from personal experience. ;-)
Stevens downed the Fords 3-1 this year, granted in an earlier game, with Haverford's goal coming on the last play of the game...presumably Stevens dumped their bench at this point? Additionally the Ducks lost 1-0 to F&M... In any case, appears that F&M more consistent in regular season out of conference + NCAA tourney whereas Haverford does better in CC tourney and regular season...correct me if wrong, on any of that, not a huge follower of the CC.
Thought Stevens played great that game and, based on that performance, I had high expectations for the Ducks for the season. Both F&M and Haverford have traditionally played tough out of conference schedules, including teams like Stevens. I believe it has helped both teams in the conference as the season progresses.
Quote from: D3Grad on December 12, 2018, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: diamondJOEY on December 12, 2018, 12:42:18 PM
I cant wait for the North region to get some quality teams back into it.
The North has been in it? It just hasn't been Loras as previous years. I personally have no interest in promoting Loras and it's "soccer" style. It is disgraceful and quite distasteful to watch. If they choose to put the ball on the ground and string more than 3 passes then I do change my stance on the program, but not until then.
I meant that in the past 2-3 years it really has just been St. Thomas who looks dangerous enough to make a solid run. When the MIAC and IIAC are strong, its really exciting to watch. As to Loras' style of play, while it may be distasteful to watch, i dont see why people put it down so much. I think maybe the coaches have figured out that the rules are different from what you watch on tv. Theres unlimited subs, the clock stops...It creates a different sport with different strategy. With the amount of people you can play in a college match, why wouldnt you want to speed up the tempo and force people to run more, its not cheating, its taking advantage of the rules that are in play...just a thought
Quote from: diamondJOEY on December 13, 2018, 09:30:06 AM
Quote from: D3Grad on December 12, 2018, 06:47:20 PM
Quote from: diamondJOEY on December 12, 2018, 12:42:18 PM
I cant wait for the North region to get some quality teams back into it.
The North has been in it? It just hasn't been Loras as previous years. I personally have no interest in promoting Loras and it's "soccer" style. It is disgraceful and quite distasteful to watch. If they choose to put the ball on the ground and string more than 3 passes then I do change my stance on the program, but not until then.
I meant that in the past 2-3 years it really has just been St. Thomas who looks dangerous enough to make a solid run. When the MIAC and IIAC are strong, its really exciting to watch. As to Loras' style of play, while it may be distasteful to watch, i dont see why people put it down so much. I think maybe the coaches have figured out that the rules are different from what you watch on tv. Theres unlimited subs, the clock stops...It creates a different sport with different strategy. With the amount of people you can play in a college match, why wouldnt you want to speed up the tempo and force people to run more, its not cheating, its taking advantage of the rules that are in play...just a thought
As a player I did enjoy playing quality teams in the region and the IIAC only really produced such. The top teams were Luther and Loras. Luther was top quality in 2016. That team could have gone to at least Sweet 16 had it not played St. Thomas in the R32. Loras was much better 4+ years ago vs recent. They played with an aggression that was unparalleled by anyone else in my four years. They did have the ball on the ground a tad bit more than recent teams. The quality has diminished to the point where it is a complete deviation from soccer rather than a manipulation of the tactics. Long throws are a manipulation of the game. Putting the ball 30 feet in the air over and over before even stringing 2 passes is not a manipulation.
A tactical look at Loras soccer is Catenaccio. An old Italian style where they play man-to-man all across the field with one floating sweeper. This style was for defensive presence and was balanced with "innovative" at the time long balls from the defenders. Now yes this is a tactic but they have deviated so much to where the ball is never on the ground. From my recollection Loras 4+ years ago performed it exceptionally well.
Spot On! Great analysis. What i am hoping for is that they can get some of that quality back. Really loved the IIAC and MIAC competitiveness that we saw a few years back.
Just got a chance to read all the feedback from the championship and really happy to hear everyone enjoyed the content. Dave and I have been working together for 3 years in this role and I think we've gotten better together each year...we balance each other well, both being soccer players turned media/SIDs who know Division III. I think we will find ways to be even better next year and pre-recorded interviews could be an option.
I actually didn't play in college by choice...I had to make a choice between volleyball and soccer and I chose volleyball because I entered college playing for one of the better high school programs in the country...but after college picked up playing again and haven't stopped...I'm 41 and still playing GK in the top amateur league in NJ...And have coached the sport for over a decade on the travel level while balancing a career in college athletic communications.
I see a lot of championships on TV where the announcers don't know the division, the conferences or the teams and you can tell while watching. Dave and I follow these teams all year long and take the time to speak with the coaches leading up to the championships. In fact, that's my favorite part about the championship prep. My conversations with Coach Apple, Coach Shapiro and Coach Souders were so much fun.
I was there live for the mens semi's, but i caught your final broadcast on the way home and re-watched the semi's as well, and you can tell that you two are practiced at and enjoy doing it. D3 Soccer is lucky to have committed, knowledgeable and informed commentators! Btw, you alluded to the fact that you were "under a tent" for Calvin/Chicago, was that the midfield tent on the turf, or outside of the press box? And why - did somebody forget to unlock a door?
Quote from: irapthor on December 16, 2018, 12:24:45 AM
Dave and I follow these teams all year long and take the time to speak with the coaches leading up to the championships. In fact, that's my favorite part about the championship prep. My conversations with Coach Apple, Coach Shapiro and Coach Souders were so much fun.
Did you not speak with Coach Babst, too, or was that conversation not as much fun? ??? ;)
Quote from: MaturinNYC on December 16, 2018, 03:18:24 PM
I was there live for the mens semi's, but i caught your final broadcast on the way home and re-watched the semi's as well, and you can tell that you two are practiced at and enjoy doing it. D3 Soccer is lucky to have committed, knowledgeable and informed commentators! Btw, you alluded to the fact that you were "under a tent" for Calvin/Chicago, was that the midfield tent on the turf, or outside of the press box? And why - did somebody forget to unlock a door?
The tent was around midway down the right hand side at the top of the bleachers. The school (UNC-Greensboro) indicated to both the NCAA (committees/liaison) and the broadcast crew that "that is how it was last year." It wasn't how it was set-up last year.
Ira and I ... pulled rank? Not sure how to describe it, but we did our best for Game 1 (not sure how that broadcast didn't sound like crap ... oh right, the teams put on a show LOL) and then asked to get things changed. Our crew was amazing moving us inside to the press box, where we were last year, between Games 1 and 2 flawlessly. Really impressive.
Also, hat's off to the NCAA committees and liaisons who realized we were not trying to be "divas" or something and that set-up wasn't appropriate for any broadcast ... and making sure to help accomplish what was needed.
I personally think someone just mis-remembered the set-up ... or didn't think the idea through. You can't put broadcasters outside, even under a tent, with equipment and exposed to the elements especially for four games in one day.
Quote from: Ommadawn on December 16, 2018, 05:43:05 PM
Quote from: irapthor on December 16, 2018, 12:24:45 AM
Dave and I follow these teams all year long and take the time to speak with the coaches leading up to the championships. In fact, that's my favorite part about the championship prep. My conversations with Coach Apple, Coach Shapiro and Coach Souders were so much fun.
Did you not speak with Coach Babst, too, or was that conversation not as much fun? ??? ;)
I tried on multiple occasions to get an interview set up but was unsuccessful :(
You can only do so much...their athletics office never responded to me...so I did other research to get caught up...