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General => General Division III issues => Topic started by: Ron Boerger on January 25, 2020, 01:43:11 PM

Title: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Ron Boerger on January 25, 2020, 01:43:11 PM
There are a boatload of proposals being adopted (for the most part) at this weekend's NCAA convention.   These are paraphrased; the complete proposals can be seen on NCAA D3 twitter. (https://twitter.com/NCAADIII)

2020-1:  Active members/conferences shall designate an athletics diversity and inclusion designee.   ADOPTED
2020-2:  Changes to provisional process for non-NCAA members; reduces from four to three years; a provisional members that cannot gain full membership in that time can apply for a one-time repeat of a year.   ADOPTED
2020-3:  Same as 2020-2 for NCAA members.  ADOPTED
2020-4: Members may provide snacks and "permissible nutrional supplements" to student-athletes as a benefit.  ADOPTED  #nomnom
2020-5A:  Members may provide practice expenses for golf during an official vacation period regardless of location.   ADOPTED
2020-5B:  Same as 5A for swimming/diving.  ADOPTED
2020-6:  Allows student-athletes serving in a leadership capacity to voluntarily participate in leadership programming (with many exclusions to keep the focus on leadership rather than having anything to do with the actual team sport).   ADOPTED
2020-7:  Add equestrian as an emerging sport for women.  DEFEATED
2020-8:  Add acrobatics and tumbling as an emerging sport for women.   ADOPTED
2020-9:  Add wrestling as an emerging sport for women.  ADOPTED
2020-10:  Teams in year 3/4 of the provisional/reclassifying process count towards the seven members needed to make up a conference, as long as there are four active members.  ADOPTED
2020-11:  Members with D1 sports may apply all D1 legislation, except Bylaw 15 (financial aid), to the D1 sports. ADOPTED
2020-12:  Directs the Softball and Baseball Committees to explore "concerns" with emphasis on championship timing as it relates to said concerns, with implementation no later than Spring 2023.  ADOPTED
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2020, 05:29:28 PM
Quote2020-10:  Teams in year 3/4 of the provisional/reclassifying process count towards the seven members needed to make up a conference, as long as there are four active members.  ADOPTED

Interesting...
I wonder if that applies to a conference "re-stocking" with new and affiliates to maintain an AQ bid.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Ron Boerger on January 26, 2020, 10:15:17 AM
The NCAA's summary of the voting can be found here: http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/division-iii-adds-emerging-sports-women-list - with a few exceptions, not a great deal of additional detail but does include the vote totals.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 26, 2020, 03:16:01 PM
Reducing the reclassifying period from 4 years to 3 years is probably the biggest deal, I wonder if schools already in the process get to take advantage of the shortened timeline or (more likely) it's only for new applicants to D3.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2020, 03:33:46 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 26, 2020, 03:16:01 PM
Reducing the reclassifying period from 4 years to 3 years is probably the biggest deal, I wonder if schools already in the process get to take advantage of the shortened timeline or (more likely) it's only for new applicants to D3.

Most recent provisional teams have been given permission to skip year 3 in the process.  It's been effectively three years for a little while now.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 27, 2020, 02:08:18 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2020, 03:33:46 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 26, 2020, 03:16:01 PM
Reducing the reclassifying period from 4 years to 3 years is probably the biggest deal, I wonder if schools already in the process get to take advantage of the shortened timeline or (more likely) it's only for new applicants to D3.

Most recent provisional teams have been given permission to skip year 3 in the process.  It's been effectively three years for a little while now.

Not quite ... there are quite a few that have had to go the full four years. I have to look back on it, but I still think the four-year process out numbers the three-year.

This essentially makes it more enticing to schools on the fence. This helps sell the fact that a class that would otherwise be locked out of any NCAA tournament hopes now is guaranteed (baring the department doesn't screw up and needs to repeat a year) to a class of students.

We may see another influx of applications - though limited to four accepted per year - in DIII.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2020, 02:47:41 PM
These are all really small sample sizes, but I actually think in the past 6-8 years we have had about as many schools repeat a year and go 5 (Alfred State, Iowa Wesleyan come to mind immediately) rather than skip a year and go in 3.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: justafan12 on January 27, 2020, 04:40:11 PM
2020-12:  Directs the Softball and Baseball Committees to explore "concerns" with emphasis on championship timing as it relates to said concerns, with implementation no later than Spring 2023.  ADOPTED

What are the concerns?
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2020, 05:13:07 PM
That the baseball season lasts one week longer than the softball season does, now that baseball has a three-week tournament.

I challenge anyone to find a week to take out of baseball. New England and the upper midwest can barely get their games in as it is.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Ron Boerger on January 27, 2020, 06:11:22 PM
Here is the full proposal: (source (https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/reports/getReport/90015))

Resolution:

WHEREAS, changing climate patterns have created increasingly difficult weather
events, often delaying the start of the spring season, particularly in the Northeast, MidAtlantic and Midwest;

WHEREAS, these weather events have negatively impacted the ability of a significant
majority of Division III member institutions to prepare outdoor facilities for softball
and baseball, hindering practice time in their local competition environment and
disrupting overall competition schedules;

WHEREAS, these consistent disruptions to contest schedules cause more games to
be compacted into fewer permissible weeks of play, increasing the likelihood and
frequency of missed class time, and often necessitating the cancellation of contests
altogether, particularly conference contests that can impact fair determination of
automatic bids and potentially Pool B and C selections;

WHEREAS, the fall and winter sport student-athletes are provided funding and other
campus resources to properly prepare and fully complete their seasons (e.g., return
earlier than the student body in the fall to begin preseason practice and participate in
Labor Day weekend tournaments; return to campus earlier than the designated start of
the spring semester during the winter break to participate in holiday tournaments and/ or resume practice for January conference competition);

WHEREAS, softball student-athletes are handicapped further by the historical start to
the NCAA tournament which is conducted one week earlier than baseball, their most
similar sport counterpart, raising concerns about gender equity that is not found in any
other sport;

WHEREAS, resolution of these concerns will contribute to a more positive competition
environment conducted in better weather, and help promote higher retention rates of
these student-athletes;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the Division III membership directs the Division III
Softball and Baseball Committees to collaborate on a plan to address the above
referenced concerns with the Division III Championships Committee, with particular
point of emphasis on examining the timing of the tournament schedules as they relate
to these concerns, with an effective date for strategic implementation no later than the
Spring 2023 season;

LET IT BE FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Division III Championships Committee
incorporate such changes as may be agreed upon into the bid process for the 2023-26
bid cycle.

Source: Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference, Commonwealth Coast
Conference, Great Northeast Athletic Conference, Michigan Intercol. Ath. Assn.
and North Eastern Athletic Conference
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 27, 2020, 08:56:41 PM
"Changing climate patterns"? The problem is that it's the same climate patterns we've always had in this part of the country -- the patterns that cause the ground to be covered in snow every February and often into March as well.

I agree with Pat that you can't shorten the baseball season without ruining the integrity of the sport. The obvious solution is to give softball an extra week.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2020, 09:00:47 PM
In all honesty, it's the first I've heard of softball having issues of this nature, but I'm all for giving them an extra week.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 27, 2020, 11:15:15 PM
Yeah ... softball has been having a bit of a challenge. Just hasn't grabbed as many headlines. I call softball games in the spring and there are times when games are either getting dropped because time is up on the season or they are slamming them into every open date imaginable. Softball just wanted a little more wiggle room.

Of course, my solution would be to drop about 8-10 games from the softball and baseball schedules and put in an actual start date (for all spring sports) to help even the playing field as well. But we know how that has gone over in the past.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: smedindy on January 28, 2020, 01:58:41 PM
We're already starting softball this weekend - The D2 Desert Stinger in Vegas.

I see La Verne's already played some games.

Up here in the PNW, the rain and snow plays havoc. One year, due to all of the rain and snow and the field - St. Martin's had just two home games at their place. We've had to play games in the Seattle suburbs or the Tri Cities because of field conditions - even in April and May. (And CWU is on the dry side of the Cascades).

Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: justafan12 on January 28, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
Since I first started following D3 softball about 10 years ago I have noticed more and more teams "traveling" to a warm weather location to get their games in.  Lots of spots in Florida and Arizona for games and now teams are flying to Texas and then traveling to various locations for games.  This helps with the non conference schedule but does nothing for conference games.

And please don't reduce the number of games.  They are limited to 40 games as it is which is not many in the grand scheme of things. 
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: jknezek on January 28, 2020, 08:39:46 PM
Quote from: justafan12 on January 28, 2020, 05:59:48 PM
Since I first started following D3 softball about 10 years ago I have noticed more and more teams "traveling" to a warm weather location to get their games in.  Lots of spots in Florida and Arizona for games and now teams are flying to Texas and then traveling to various locations for games.  This helps with the non conference schedule but does nothing for conference games.

And please don't reduce the number of games.  They are limited to 40 games as it is which is not many in the grand scheme of things.

How many D3 team sports play 40 games? None that I know of except baseball and softball. That's a ton of games. Basketball and volleyball go low to mid 30s plus the NCAA tournament. Soccer and field hockey are around 20. Lacrosse and football way less. Saying 40 isn't a big number in the grand scheme of things is pretty odd.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2020, 08:42:28 PM
Softball, especially, plays doubleheaders, and 20 competition dates compares quite favorably against those numbers you cite.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: jknezek on January 28, 2020, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2020, 08:42:28 PM
Softball, especially, plays doubleheaders, and 20 competition dates compares quite favorably against those numbers you cite.

Sure. But to say 40 games, 20 double headers or not, is not a lot is just odd. Come on. There are 230 or so softball schools. 40 games is huge compared to the number of games and teams in other sports. I'm not advocating cutting them, I'm just a bit stumped at the statement.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 28, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Teams don't tend to play nothing but double-headers. That usually is a conference thing. It usually equates to about 28+ game dates. The trickier part being that they consolidate into a small period of time ... near the end of semesters ... which makes no sense to me when it comes to being a student.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2020, 09:56:39 PM
Division I softball plays 56 games, and before that limit was imposed in 2009, some warm weather schools would play up to 65 games before they even got to NCAA regionals. That was a little much.

40 games isn't very many at all and most teams up here don't even bother scheduling 40 anymore since it's expensive and they know they won't get the OOC games in anyway. When a program gets its schedule pared down to basically nothing but "spring training" and conference games, that strikes me as not serving the student-athlete all that well. They like the game enough to play it at D3, let the kids play some more ballgames.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: jknezek on January 28, 2020, 10:06:25 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on January 28, 2020, 09:56:39 PM
Division I softball plays 56 games, and before that limit was imposed in 2009, some warm weather schools would play up to 65 games before they even got to NCAA regionals. That was a little much.

40 games isn't very many at all and most teams up here don't even bother scheduling 40 anymore since it's expensive and they know they won't get the OOC games in anyway. When a program gets its schedule pared down to basically nothing but "spring training" and conference games, that strikes me as not serving the student-athlete all that well. They like the game enough to play it at D3, let the kids play some more ballgames.

I don't think D1 is a valid comparison for DIII. Again, what other DIII sport plays 40 games? I'm just confused, for example, on how 20 soccer games is enough but 40 softball isn't? That's a ton of time spent travelling even if a pile are double headers.

You want to shift the season by a couple weeks? I'm ok with that. Fall sports start 3 weeks (roughly) early. I could see shifting the tournament to start late May and end early June, so the season ends 3 weeks, roughly, after spring semester ends. Athletes might miss graduation, but that happens. But I just don't see the argument that "only" having 40 games is shafting softball athletes.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 28, 2020, 10:59:07 PM
FYI - the real argument is that teams who can't get close enough to 40 games are at a disadvantage to those who can easily get to 40 (better weather) because their resumes look better to the national committee. Getting everyone on the same level has been discussed a lot.

But don't think that double-headers are no big deal and 40 games isn't either. Remember, with a double-header the teams are on the field no later than 90 minutes prior to first pitch for all the warm-ups, hitting, etc. that is done. Then the games are played - than can take six hours depending on many things - and then the trip home for those who are traveling.

So those days are much longer for student-athletes than almost all other sports.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2020, 10:58:53 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 28, 2020, 09:55:11 PM
Teams don't tend to play nothing but double-headers. That usually is a conference thing. It usually equates to about 28+ game dates. The trickier part being that they consolidate into a small period of time ... near the end of semesters ... which makes no sense to me when it comes to being a student.

My observation is that baseball is like this -- not at all always doubleheaders, but softball is for all intents and purposes always two games. A sampling:

https://www.catholicathletics.com/sports/sball/2019-20/schedule
https://gomessiah.com/sports/softball/schedule/2020
https://athletics.augsburg.edu/sports/softball/schedule/2020
https://www.chapmanathletics.com/sports/sball/2019-20/schedule
https://www.keeneowls.com/sports/sball/2019-20/schedule
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2020, 11:23:28 AM
Interesting ... though, I also may be getting some games that are make-ups in my head. Crazy as it sounds ... I've called many a solo game.

Though, I just checked my schedule and there are a lot of DHs. Maybe there was a change I missed.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2020, 12:24:46 PM
I can't speak for any other programs, but, aside from the annual spring trip to Florida (where they typically play two different opponents every game day while they're down there) North Park softball teams have only played doubleheaders going all the way back through 2008, with two exceptions. In 2010 against Concordia (IL) and again in 2016 against Kalamazoo the Vikings only played single games ... and in both cases that was because the nightcap of the scheduled doubleheader was suspended by rain before it became an official game, and the suspended game was never finished and thus disappeared from the books.

I rarely even bother looking at the schedule once I have the game date and the opponent marked on my personal calendar, because I automatically assume that I'm going to be calling a doubleheader if it's softball. For baseball, on the other hand, I always check online to see if it's a single game or a doubleheader.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2020, 12:58:27 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 29, 2020, 12:24:46 PM
I can't speak for any other programs, but, aside from the annual spring trip to Florida (where they typically play two different opponents every game day while they're down there) North Park softball teams have only played doubleheaders going all the way back through 2008, with two exceptions. In 2010 against Concordia (IL) and again in 2016 against Kalamazoo the Vikings only played single games ... and in both cases that was because the nightcap of the scheduled doubleheader was suspended by rain before it became an official game, and the suspended game was never finished and thus disappeared from the books.

I rarely even bother looking at the schedule once I have the game date and the opponent marked on my personal calendar, because I automatically assume that I'm going to be calling a doubleheader if it's softball. For baseball, on the other hand, I always check online to see if it's a single game or a doubleheader.

Ha. My experience with baseball is identical to yours. Wait, how many games today? Crap ... two ... didn't plan on that. LOL Last year with a bad back, I actually had to back out of a few games because of their schedule.

I haven't called a lot of softball in the last few years - it was a few years ago when I called more (and produced more, I should add, at another school) and I felt there were more single-games. I always had to check the schedule. Maybe there was just a change in the area. Who knows. I could also be getting ... old.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: smedindy on January 29, 2020, 01:00:27 PM
CWU plays either doubleheaders, or large tournaments (D2 softball - they have huge events like the Desert Stinger in Vegas and the Tournament of Champions in Turlock, CA where they play 5 or 6 games in three days). I looked at Wabash's baseball schedule and they have a February 29th (!) event in Westfield, IN with Wittenberg and three other teams. They then play seven games in Arizona (including a DH), then only five single games (one of them part of a five game set with Hanover and the others with local-ish teams like Franklin and Rose Hulman) and the rest double headers. The NCAC has always tended to DHs for conference games since they stopped using divisions. When they had divisions, sometimes they played three game sets with a DH and a single game.

To me the number of games isn't that great. The 40 games is probably a better test for a team since you have to utilize your pitching staff. It's a good test of team depth. Plus, the nature of baseball and softball is such that there's more randomness in a single game result. Doubleheaders for conference games is also the best test since you can't just use one or two pitchers.

It IS a long season, mainly because the games are normally on weekends. For schools using quarters it does take place over two quarters.

I checked a couple of other softball schedules in D3 - all Dhs. The SCIAC seems to play DHs + a single game. Friday at one place and a Saturday DH at the other.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2020, 01:00:58 PM
I went to college in Boston - it felt like the baseball/softball teams would play any and every game they could get in.  When you go weeks, sometimes, without proper weather, I feel like they'd play three in one day if the opponents were down to do it.  I wasn't super connected to the baseball team, but I do remember them fielding grounders in the gym after midnight through the end of basketball season.  It never seemed like fair competition with schools in SoCal.
Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: justafan12 on January 29, 2020, 05:59:44 PM
"They like the game enough to play it at D3, let the kids play some more ballgames."

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!  My comment regarding 40 games was comparing it to D1 and D2 who play 50 or more games, not other sports.  I don't see why the limit at D3.  Does the NCAA think the SA can't  handle more games?  Can SA in D3 not balance their academics better than the other divisions.  Sorry I just don't see why the difference.  Maybe its a budgeting thing.

Several years ago, the ASC conference went to 33 conference games so that left only 7 games against non conference teams.  Most teams first or second series of the year was a conference series.  Not much of a preseason.  They have since split into 2 divisions making room for more non conference games.

Title: Re: D3 Proposals at the 2020 NCAA Convention
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2020, 09:56:09 PM
Your rhetorical question is exactly the answer ... DIII presidents don't want the students primarily focused on academics. Athletics is a respected aspect of it, but they are NOT going to allow more games (and there has been talks about cuts) especially in sports like baseball and softball.

Comparing to DI and DII are not relevant - by a long shot.