OK, let's do this...thankful for a very long-awaited new season of exhilaration and agony.
Not sure Massey works especially this early in the season for picking top matches, and perhaps no system would be effective now two years removed from a full, real season.
My picks to check out for Weds thru Sunday (9/1/21-9/5/21)
Weds
Rowan vs Hopkins
Cortland vs Rochester
JCU vs Kenyon
Rutgers-Newark vs Stevens
Sleepers -- Carleton vs Whitworth, Loras vs St. Norbert, Redlands vs Chapman, Kzoo vs Chicago, GAC vs Wartburg, Marietta vs CWRU, Denison vs Mt. Union, Greensboro vs Roanoke
Friday
OWU vs Hope
W&L vs Emory
Sleepers -- Ohio Northern vs Calvin, Chicago vs Wabash, Occidental vs Trinity (TX), St Joe's vs Endicott
Saturday
OWU vs Calvin
Hobart vs Brandeis
Stevens vs Cortland
RPI vs Oneonta
Haverford vs Lycoming
NYU vs Rutgers-Camden
Sleepers -- Roanoke vs Salisbury, Oglethorpe vs W&L, GAC vs Colorado Coll, Luther vs Macalester, ECSU vs F&M, Rose Hulman vs Wash U, Mt Union vs CMU, NC Wesleyan vs Hopkins
Sunday
Rochester vs JCU
Gettysburg vs Christopher Newport
Babson vs Swarthmore
St Mary's vs Roanoke
Sleepers -- Lynchburg vs Greensboro, NC Wesleyan vs Mary Washington, Kenyon vs Transy, Emory vs Oglethorpe, St Norbert vs Carthage, NYU vs Stockton, Stevens vs Ithaca
FYI: Today's Rowan vs. Hopkins and Rutgers-Newark vs. Stevens games have been cancelled due to the rain from remnants of Hurricane Ida. After missing a year, how disappointing to have dozens of season openers cancelled.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on September 01, 2021, 02:57:46 PM
FYI: Today's Rowan vs. Hopkins and Rutgers-Newark vs. Stevens games have been cancelled due to the rain from remnants of Hurricane Ida. After missing a year, how disappointing to have dozens of season openers cancelled.
Many games on the east coast have been cancelled or postponed from what I can see. Do we have any games this evening elsewhere that are worth a watch? West Coast matches? Mid-West matches?
I think Montclair State is poised for a big year. They return 10 starters and had a very good recruiting class including HS All-American Amer Lukovic who was originally committed to D1 Rutgers, and Donovan Davis a D1 transfer from Elon, They won their first game today 6-1, but it was against a weak Centenary team so take it with a grain of salt.
I've been following this site since my college career a few years ago and have always followed soccer pretty extensively so I figured I'd get involved a little bit.
I traveled to Kenyon last night to watch their matchup vs JCU. Not too many offensive chances on either end other than the goals and was pretty much a game about defense. I except both teams to have pretty successful years based on the level of play of the game I saw last night.
Video seemed clearer than usual but further away and no sound/play-by-play so impressions may be unreliable.
Biggest takeaway is that this was a very good win for JCU and could be quite valuable later in the season. Very business-like, mature performance for very experienced squad with 17 seniors (10 4th years and 7 5th years). Once JCU withstood the initial wave of Kenyon pressure unscathed and then scored kind of against the run of play, JCU looked more in control while Kenyon looked increasingly frustrated and frenetic. Familiar scenario for Kenyon...exert intense energy and pressure early only to find themselves down 1-0 and then chasing the game against a Sweet 16, Elite 8 very strong, balanced type of opponent. Plus JCU has Turrittin, likely one of the top 5-10 players in D3. If JCU is ever gonna make a Final Four this could be the year. Super schedule too with Rochester, CMU, CWRU, OWU and Chicago all to come.
Disappointing loss for Kenyon. No shame in losing to an excellent, experienced side like JCU, but definitely a reality check. Lords did not look composed, perhaps partly due to playing a large number of frosh and sophs major minutes. A good team should just rope-a-dope against Kenyon's early energy, wait for frustration and fatigue, and then exploit pretty straightforward opportunities on the counter. That's basically what happened, with JCU aided by Kenyon also coughing up the ball in bad spots with very avoidable unforced errors. Kenyon was missing their own All-American and 5th year CB, Hosmer-Quint, and they will sorely miss him if he is out for extended time. Don't know the backstory, but Kenyon's other truly superb defender from 2019, Chayne Bruneau, is no longer there and apparently transferred to Springfield College much closer to his CT home. Major loss as he was phenomenal as a freshmen.
Bottom line....Perfect start for JCU with a statement win right out of the gate on the road. Kenyon is going to take longer that I expected to settle into a lineup and substitution pattern, especially if the plan is for at least a handful of underclassmen to enjoy significant roles. Should evolve into a formidable team but perhaps with a lower ceiling than anticipated.
Roanoke 1 Gboro 0
Caught the 2nd half of this one. Seemed pretty evenly matched in terms or possession, I'd have to give the edge to Noke (I swear, no bias) in terms of offensive chances. They were much more dangerous in the final 3rd.
Noke is pretty upper classmen heavy this year and added a few international players. Admittedly, I pulled up the roster for the first time this morning, so I'll be able to give better player analysis going forward.
Tough match for Noke this weekend in Maryland vs Salisbury.
Watched a bit of the Chicago-Kalamazoo game. Commentary and broadcast was good, but sometimes the camera operators try to zoom in too close to the play, and the viewer can't see what is happening on the field.
Chicago had the edge statistically and probably deserved the win. But Kalamazoo seem like it may continue its run of 1 goal type games with their solid defense. https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/msoc/2021-22/releases/20210901wj59kg (https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/msoc/2021-22/releases/20210901wj59kg).
The one goal was scored on a quirky pass back to the keeper. There was a 50:50 ball near midfield that the Kzoo player kicked in the direction of the keeper. The ball looped over a central defender and bounced to the keeper who played it off his chest and the ball hit the keepers arm, all within the box. The referee called it a pass back and awarded an indirect kick just inside the box. Chicago scored with a shot around the wall.
As a ref, I am not sure I would have called it a pass back. If the keeper had just come out with confidence and grabbed the ball, it probably would have been ok. However, the keeper played it like he thought it was a pass back, and that response probably influenced the referees decision. Oh well.
Messiah and Mary Hardin-Baylor scoreless at the half. Both teams are playing hard with intelligence, but a lot of rust is being shaken out. MHB leads 7-5 in SOG, while the Falcons have all 4 corners and have made heavy use of their bench. The best athlete might be on MHB, but I think this one will come down to who makes fewer errors. Neither keeper has been severely tested. The best shot (from MHB) was a rocket just over the bar from maybe 35 yards out. The highlight so far is a sighting of the F&M coach saying hello to his alma mater: they play MHB next, I hear.
Heading for OT in Grantham, nil-nil. Messiah with the advantage most of the second half, which could have ended 1-1 or 2-1, as both teams dodged bullets. Missing tonight for the Falcons are the dangerous Kokolios and the speedy Daniels: probably both would have started. A very experienced team nonetheless. The SO (but in essence FR) defender Morlote is impressive on both ends.
Falcons win in 2 OT, 1-0, on a textbook header by DMF Reid Ruarke on a corner. When the highlights are posted, be sure to see this one. Glad to see that Ruarke scored it. He badly injured an ankle in the 2019 tournament, missing the final game where his savvy would certainly have helped. This must be gratifying to him, especially since I didn't see him in the starting lineup (perhaps I was just sitting too far away).
MH-B is gutsy and good. They played Messiah straight up and could have won it with a little luck. It's typical for the Falcons to start the season a little sluggish, without COVID in the mix. Tonight was exactly the barn burner they needed to get going. More tough opponents are coming soon.
Quote from: Falconer on September 04, 2021, 08:55:11 PM
The SO (but in essence FR) defender Morlote is impressive on both ends.
Seen/played against Morlote a few times in club/HS. Was a great CM. Is he playing outside back still - I think that's where he played in the few games last year? If so, that move reminds me of Shay Quintin.
Quote from: Ejay on September 05, 2021, 10:15:26 PM
Quote from: Falconer on September 04, 2021, 08:55:11 PM
The SO (but in essence FR) defender Morlote is impressive on both ends.
Seen/played against Morlote a few times in club/HS. Was a great CM. Is he playing outside back still - I think that's where he played in the few games last year? If so, that move reminds me of Shay Quintin.
Yes, he's playing right outside back. Interesting comparison to Quintin. Physically of course there is no comparison—Quintin a smaller man, perhaps faster and probably quicker. Quintin could have played almost anywhere. IMO, Quintin was one of the 3 best players on the 2019 team (his last season), and the single best player on the field in the NCAA regional games in 2017 that sent Messiah to the final four. He individually negated Rochester's efforts to use his side of the field. Their fans pretty much said so at halftime (I talked with several), and they were correct. A lot of guys from around the nation who've quite properly drawn attention here, including a few AAs from his years, were not IMO better players than Quintin.
Outside the national conversation so far, but Trinity (TX) improved to 4-0 with a 1-0 victory against UT-Dallas this afternoon despite playing a man down the last 70'. They've found themselves a gem in Michael Meese, a first-year transfer from William & Mary whose game-winner in the 51st minute today was his fourth goal in as many games to go with a pair of assists. Have no idea how he ended up at Trinity - started 5 of 6 games W&M played in the spring season and averaged nearly 70 minutes a game, both parents W&M grads, Virginia Gatorade PoTY his senior year of high school (2020).
United Soccer Coaches Poll is out: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Rank School Prev W-L-T
1 Tufts University 1 2-0-0
2 Franklin & Marshall College 18 2-0-0
3 Washington & Lee University 11 1-0-1
4 University of Rochester NR 1-0-1
5 University of Redlands NR 1-0-0
6 St. Mary's College of Maryland NR 3-0-0
7 Capital University NR 3-0-0
8 Worcester Polytechnic Institute NR 2-0-0
9 Messiah College 9 2-0-0
10 Calvin University 3 3-0-1
11 Bowdoin College NR 1-0-0
12 Trinity University (Texas) NR 2-0-0
13 Ohio Wesleyan University 13 1-0-1
14 New York University NR 1-0-1
15 University Of Chicago 19 2-0-0
16 Christopher Newport University 22 1-0-1
17 SUNY Oneonta 24 1-0-1
18 Gustavus Adolphus College 25 1-2-0
19 Babson College NR 2-1-0
20 Luther College 5 3-0-0
21 Rowan University 15 3-0-0
22 Carthage College NR 2-0-1
23 Johns Hopkins University 17 0-0-1
24 SUNY Cortland NR 1-1-1
25 Whitman College NR 2-0-0
Records shown are through games of Sept. 12, 2021
Also receiving votes: University of Lynchburg, Otterbein University, Massachusetts Insititute Of Technology, Connecticut College
NOTE: although the site says it includes games through September 12, I think that is mistake. For example, Chicago tied St. Olaf on 9/12 and that's not in included. I'm sure there are other missed games on here, too.
Quote from: OldNed on September 14, 2021, 02:04:53 PM
NOTE: although the site says it includes games through September 12, I think that is mistake. For example, Chicago tied St. Olaf on 9/12 and that's not in included. I'm sure there are other missed games on here, too.
I think they goofed on the date in one spot or another; the poll says September 10, but it says games included through September 12, and Bowdoin's win over Amherst (its second) was not recorded.
Yes, the last 2 W&L games are not included.
I am surprised Amherst isn't on the list, or even in the "also receiving votes" group, unless I'm missing something.
Meaningless rankings still. Conn College receiving votes with a record of 0-0. I'll check back on this poll in a month.
Quote from: Ejay on September 14, 2021, 05:07:37 PM
Meaningless rankings still. Conn College receiving votes with a record of 0-0. I'll check back on this poll in a month.
Because of 2019 Elite 8
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 14, 2021, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Ejay on September 14, 2021, 05:07:37 PM
Meaningless rankings still. Conn College receiving votes with a record of 0-0. I'll check back on this poll in a month.
Because of 2019 Elite 8
Correct. Meaningless
Quote from: Ejay on September 14, 2021, 05:57:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 14, 2021, 05:20:41 PM
Quote from: Ejay on September 14, 2021, 05:07:37 PM
Meaningless rankings still. Conn College receiving votes with a record of 0-0. I'll check back on this poll in a month.
Because of 2019 Elite 8
Correct. Meaningless
At this point it's hard to tell which is worse....the early Massey rankings which lead to missing top games of the weekend, or this Coach poll above. I'm sure someone can make sense of the Coach poll because iirc there is some method where each region has to have a team ranked like 1-8 and then 9-16, etc. An initial poll based on 2019 results is to be expected. But how in the world to explain Rochester, Redlands, St Mary's, Capital, WPI jumping from #4 thru #8 when all were NR the week before. How does F&M jump from #18 to #2 in one week? Now, F&M and W&L could be top 5 teams, but not based on the limited data that went into the rankings. And how does GAC jump to #18 from #25 after two Ls?
Anyway, not a big deal, but a little annoying especially when one sees recaps with captions wrapped around these rankings.
Watched large portions of Emory vs Calvin last night and imo Emory looked every bit as good as Calvin. And yet, when I looked away in the 105th minute at 0-0 I just knew I would look back in a few minutes and see a 1-0 Calvin win with a goal pulled out of the last 3-4 minutes. Seemed like a classic, and expected, outcome for both programs. Always pick Calvin in these spots unless they're playing Tufts. More interested, though, in Emory and the UAA in general. Emory over the past decade that I've followed seems to have a lot of these types of results, and with the exception of I think one Elite 8 run have had hard luck and ultimately underachieved. But what a conference the UAA is top to bottom, especially with the improved performance of NYU and CWRU the past few years.
On another note, I am really impressed with the programs that incorporate a long distance weekend into their schedules. Grand Rapids to Atlanta is a hike and I'm sure not inexpensive. Did the Knights fly in on Thursday or same day as the first tilt yesterday? Possibly a three night stay in Atlanta. Similar deal with Christopher Newport going to Chicago. I understand the NESCAC schools not doing these sort of trips with their condensed seasons and shorter schedules, but so many notable programs could throw in at least a trip in the 6-8 hour range or even 3-5 hour range....like Kenyon or Carnegie going to W&L and Lynchburg or to Messiah and F&M or NJ or even Rochester/Cortland/Oneonta/Hobart, etc. And for the more elite programs who do not typically make such trips, is that more about the coach or larger decisions/resources in athletic departments as a whole? I think CNU is a state school, and UMass-Boston is certainly a state school that a few years ago traveled to the West Coast (Washington state iirc).
OK, OK, geez, maybe W&L and UR ARE #3 and #4 in the country after all....or #1 and #2.
W&L was up 5-0 on Centre at the half.
And Rochester blew out Hobart yesterday 6-0.
Both undefeated, once tied.
And time to give a nod to Chicago sitting at 5-0-1. Also right there with JCU for toughest schedule. Already has faced Kzoo, Wabash, Macalester, St Olaf, Christopher Newport and Luther.
Next six games....Wheaton, JCU, Calvin, Emory, Carthage, Rochester....followed by the rest of the grueling UAA schedule with a trip to North Park mixed in.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 19, 2021, 07:28:17 PM
And time to give a nod to Chicago sitting at 5-0-1. Also right there with JCU for toughest schedule. Already has faced Kzoo, Wabash, Macalester, St Olaf, Christopher Newport and Luther.
Next six games....Wheaton, JCU, Calvin, Emory, Carthage, Rochester....followed by the rest of the grueling UAA schedule with a trip to North Park mixed in.
UChicago has scheduled pretty aggressively ever since Babst turned them into a national contender. Consistently in the top 3-5 hardest schedules at the start of each year, plus the UAA gauntlet.
The UChicago wins over Chris Newport and Luther this weekend demonstrated the trend they've displayed for several years now: they're a second half team that grows into the game. The first half of both games were downright forgettable for the Maroons. Once they made their adjustments at the break, the chances started coming and the young talent showed their ability. They're a deep team that wears you down. 9 of their 10 goals this year have been scored in the second half, as well as 49 vs. 29 in shots taken by half.
In the CNU game, Yetishefsky scored a pair of unusual goals. On the first one, the goalie and a defender converged to try to boot out a loose ball in the box, but they didn't realize Yeti had stepped right into the ball's path and they kicked it off him and into the goal. The second one, he made a run up the right wing and pulled a fast one on the goalie. He looked so sure to center it to the other forward that the goalie started his dive away from goal a split second early. Instead Yeti just nonchalantly passed the ball right into the back of the net.
One positive from COVID is that most colleges now stream all their games. With my son now playing D3 soccer I've been interested to see what teams from around the country look like and have caught a bunch of games. I've been really impressed with the overall quality of play and competitiveness. I saw Carnegie Mellon play Ohio Northern and both teams were well coached, talented, deep.
I know the NESCAC very well and am learning the UAA. What other leagues should I be checking out?
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 20, 2021, 09:50:17 AM
One positive from COVID is that most colleges now stream all their games. With my son now playing D3 soccer I've been interested to see what teams from around the country look like and have caught a bunch of games. I've been really impressed with the overall quality of play and competitiveness. I saw Carnegie Mellon play Ohio Northern and both teams were well coached, talented, deep.
I know the NESCAC very well and am learning the UAA. What other leagues should I be checking out?
Check out the Game Notes thread...
Why does the USC bother with polls?
MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Why does the USC bother with polls?
MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
I don't disagree if that's a valid vote for MCLA, but cmon - that HAS to be a mistake, right?
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Why does the USC bother with polls?
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
So if I'm Eastern or Washington College, I'm asking for a recount.
Region V poll:
4. Eastern (national RV)
5. Washington College (not even RV in national which puts them out of top 40, oh and they beat F&M)
6. F&M (national #24)
Imagine Coast Guard's surprise....#14 nationally but can't crack the Region 1 top 10, but neither did MCLA. Of course St Joe's, Williams, ECSU, J&W, and Norwich made the Region 1 cut but none could manage to get into RV.
Despite the apparent lack of any coherent internal consistency it is interesting to see the poll used nonetheless as a data base for meaningful inferences and judgments with a presumption that deliberation occurred.
Addendum: I will concede that whether by design or luck or some odd combo therein that most of the names in the #1 thru at least #15 range are names one would expect to see, while perhaps arguing over the order. Despite the sterling 8-0 record, #3 seems a little high for St. Mary's without more data, and Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 04:15:58 PM
Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.
In keeping with the school's mission, har har har.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 04:15:58 PM
Imagine Coast Guard's surprise....#14 nationally but can't crack the Region 1 top 10, but neither did MCLA. Of course St Joe's, Williams, ECSU, J&W, and Norwich made the Region 1 cut but none could manage to get into RV.
Despite the apparent lack of any coherent internal consistency it is interesting to see the poll used nonetheless as a data base for meaningful inferences and judgments with a presumption that deliberation occurred.
Addendum: I will concede that whether by design or luck or some odd combo therein that most of the names in the #1 thru at least #15 range are names one would expect to see, while perhaps arguing over the order. Despite the sterling 8-0 record, #3 seems a little high for St. Mary's without more data, and Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.
Paul, you may have missed this but Coast Guard was #1 in Region 2 rankings. I was surprised to see that USCA split New England into 2 regions, but I guess maybe it has something to do with the sheer number of D3 teams in New England.
Quote from: OldNed on September 21, 2021, 06:55:32 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 04:15:58 PM
Imagine Coast Guard's surprise....#14 nationally but can't crack the Region 1 top 10, but neither did MCLA. Of course St Joe's, Williams, ECSU, J&W, and Norwich made the Region 1 cut but none could manage to get into RV.
Despite the apparent lack of any coherent internal consistency it is interesting to see the poll used nonetheless as a data base for meaningful inferences and judgments with a presumption that deliberation occurred.
Addendum: I will concede that whether by design or luck or some odd combo therein that most of the names in the #1 thru at least #15 range are names one would expect to see, while perhaps arguing over the order. Despite the sterling 8-0 record, #3 seems a little high for St. Mary's without more data, and Coast Guard at #14 seems adventurous.
Paul, you may have missed this but Coast Guard was #1 in Region 2 rankings. I was surprised to see that USCA split New England into 2 regions, but I guess maybe it has something to do with the sheer number of D3 teams in New England.
ON, thanks. I did miss that. Embarrassing if it's always been that way. Looks like Mid-Atlantic is split into two regions as well, with NYU landing in one of those and not in the East.
At any rate, the new D3 poll looks, per usual, markedly better and on target while acknowledging that it's still early and a fair amount of movement is to be expected over next 2-3 weeks.
MCLA and Union headed to OT.
Hey, we have a D3soccer.com poll again!
https://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2021/week3
D3soccer.com Men's Top 25, Week 3
Through games of Sunday, September 19, 2021
# School (1st Pl. Votes)
1 Tufts (15) 4-0-0
2 Messiah 4-0-1
3 Washington & Lee 5-0-1
4 Trinity (Texas) 6-0-0
5 Chicago 5-0-1
6 Ohio Wesleyan (2) 5-0-1
7 New York Univ. 5-0-1
8 Rochester 4-0-1
9 St. Mary's (Md.) 8-0-0
10 Middlebury (1) 4-0-0
11 Calvin 6-1-2
12 Oneonta State 4-0-1
13 North Central (Ill.) 8-0-0
14 Rowan 5-1-0
15 Montclair State 5-1-1
16 Coast Guard 6-0-1
17 Eastern 6-0-0
18 Cortland State 5-1-1
19 Carthage 5-1-1
20 Hope 4-1-1
21 Otterbein 5-0-0
22 Franklin & Marshall 4-1-0
23 Chris. Newport 3-1-2
24 Johns Hopkins 3-0-2
25 Amherst 3-1-0
Receiving Votes: Muhlenberg 178, Augsburg 174, Redlands 160, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 154, Washington U. 141, Bowdoin 137, North Park 112, Roanoke 74, Kenyon 69, Connecticut College 53, Loras 38, St. Olaf 36, Vassar 36, Capital 32, Williams 25, Misericordia 25, Eastern Connecticut 23, Mary Washington 21, Babson 17, Mount Union 17, RPI 13, Gettysburg 13, Maryville (Tenn.) 6, Carnegie Mellon 4
I am curious as to why Amherst is either not in the top 25, or quite low in every poll (United Soccer Coaches, Massey,, this one). Didn't they return everyone from 2019, when they were in the final?
I don't have a stake in this, but I paid a fair amount of attention to Amherst as my son went through recruiting. I can't say whether they should be in the top 5 (or whatever) but I find it surprising that they are where they are.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 18, 2021, 03:58:53 PM
Watched large portions of Emory vs Calvin last night and imo Emory looked every bit as good as Calvin. And yet, when I looked away in the 105th minute at 0-0 I just knew I would look back in a few minutes and see a 1-0 Calvin win with a goal pulled out of the last 3-4 minutes. Seemed like a classic, and expected, outcome for both programs. Always pick Calvin in these spots unless they're playing Tufts. More interested, though, in Emory and the UAA in general. Emory over the past decade that I've followed seems to have a lot of these types of results, and with the exception of I think one Elite 8 run have had hard luck and ultimately underachieved. But what a conference the UAA is top to bottom, especially with the improved performance of NYU and CWRU the past few years.
On another note, I am really impressed with the programs that incorporate a long distance weekend into their schedules. Grand Rapids to Atlanta is a hike and I'm sure not inexpensive. Did the Knights fly in on Thursday or same day as the first tilt yesterday? Possibly a three night stay in Atlanta. Similar deal with Christopher Newport going to Chicago. I understand the NESCAC schools not doing these sort of trips with their condensed seasons and shorter schedules, but so many notable programs could throw in at least a trip in the 6-8 hour range or even 3-5 hour range....like Kenyon or Carnegie going to W&L and Lynchburg or to Messiah and F&M or NJ or even Rochester/Cortland/Oneonta/Hobart, etc. And for the more elite programs who do not typically make such trips, is that more about the coach or larger decisions/resources in athletic departments as a whole? I think CNU is a state school, and UMass-Boston is certainly a state school that a few years ago traveled to the West Coast (Washington state iirc).
IMO its all about the $$$$...That is why every program needs a "godfather" of some sort...
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 19, 2021, 07:28:17 PM
And time to give a nod to Chicago sitting at 5-0-1. Also right there with JCU for toughest schedule. Already has faced Kzoo, Wabash, Macalester, St Olaf, Christopher Newport and Luther.
Next six games....Wheaton, JCU, Calvin, Emory, Carthage, Rochester....followed by the rest of the grueling UAA schedule with a trip to North Park mixed in.
Damn that is an impressive schedule. Any takers going against them finishing with the highest SOS?
Quote from: Another Mom on September 22, 2021, 08:51:58 AM
I am curious as to why Amherst is either not in the top 25, or quite low in every poll (United Soccer Coaches, Massey,, this one). Didn't they return everyone from 2019, when they were in the final?
I don't have a stake in this, but I paid a fair amount of attention to Amherst as my son went through recruiting. I can't say whether they should be in the top 5 (or whatever) but I find it surprising that they are where they are.
The polls seem especially volatile this year. Regarding Amherst specifically, they have three wins by one goal and a one goal loss in conference to a team they normally beat. Giammattei has only one goal in 4 games despite a lot of shots, and he only played 32 minutes vs Hamilton in their 1-0 win on 9/18. Maybe things just are not clicking for them offensively right now. With the strength of the league, any team that puts up good conference results is going to be fine. The tough part of their schedule is still in front of them.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Why does the USC bother with polls?
MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
Agreed...but MCLA(or North Adams State) were a decent program in the late 1970's and 1980's and made a couple of NCAA Final Four's in the 1970's. Admissions became much harder for athletics when the school switched "names" and raised standards. Men's Hockey was dumped in the early 2000's. The President wanted a different direction in the mid 1990's and looking back he was right because believe me the city of North Adams, MA has benefitted. Of course, Mass Moca and the mayor should be congratulated. Damn that mayor was a horse's ass but he bullied, pushed and prodded to use eminent domain as a threat or sadly a reality. MCLA also started purchasing more land, buildings, etc. Moving historical house after historical house to fit their every need. Sorry a little off track.
Quote from: Another Mom on September 22, 2021, 08:51:58 AM
I am curious as to why Amherst is either not in the top 25, or quite low in every poll (United Soccer Coaches, Massey,, this one). Didn't they return everyone from 2019, when they were in the final?
I don't have a stake in this, but I paid a fair amount of attention to Amherst as my son went through recruiting. I can't say whether they should be in the top 5 (or whatever) but I find it surprising that they are where they are.
Fair question, especially considering where Amherst finished 2019 and looking at a handful of teams above them (even in the D3 soccer poll) with a loss and a draw or two. For instance, compare to Calvin which has held its ground/brand value so to speak with three blemishes, although one could retort that Calvin has played more games and thus far has played a tougher schedule. The D3 poll consistently is by far the best (and imo most accurate) but even there no one should presume that whoever votes goes into a fine-grained analysis three levels deep. And I truly do not get the hype over Massey.
All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse. Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 22, 2021, 09:22:47 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Why does the USC bother with polls?
MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
Agreed...but MCLA(or North Adams State) were a decent program in the late 1970's and 1980's and made a couple of NCAA Final Four's in the 1970's. Admissions became much harder for athletics when the school switched "names" and raised standards. Men's Hockey was dumped in the early 2000's. The President wanted a different direction in the mid 1990's and looking back he was right because believe me the city of North Adams, MA has benefitted. Of course, Mass Moca and the mayor should be congratulated. Damn that mayor was a horse's ass but he bullied, pushed and prodded to use eminent domain as a threat or sadly a reality. MCLA also started purchasing more land, buildings, etc. Moving historical house after historical house to fit their every need. Sorry a little off track.
That is interesting. I would have never guessed that MCLA (or North Adams State) had been anywhere near a Final Four even 50 years ago.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse. Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.
It is good to see another W&L fan on the boards. We are few and far between across all sports! This could be the Generals breakthrough year, but I am very, very interested in Friday's CNU game. I think we will learn as much about both teams as can be learned in a single soccer game. I am also hoping the last two games opened the scoring floodgates. The Generals looked strong after the Emory game, but finishing chances seems to be very hit or miss this early in the season.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse. Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.
Yes, I am pleased with how W&L are playing :-) It will be interesting to see how the season progresses. They have one of their toughest opponents this weekend.
Since we are feeling a bit squeaky about polls... anyone want to do a fan poll? If we can get 5-10 voters maybe do a national top 15 or 20? I'll organize and collate it if we can get the voters. I'm pronanly not nationally knowledgeable enough to be a voter. Let me know by private message if you are interested.
Quote from: jknezek on September 22, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse. Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.
It is good to see another W&L fan on the boards. We are few and far between across all sports! This could be the Generals breakthrough year, but I am very, very interested in Friday's CNU game. I think we will learn as much about both teams as can be learned in a single soccer game. I am also hoping the last two games opened the scoring floodgates. The Generals looked strong after the Emory game, but finishing chances seems to be very hit or miss this early in the season.
Aren't "finishing chances hit or miss" true for just about every d3 team?? :D I am encouraged that they aren't reliant on only one goal scorer -- they have a few!
Quote from: Another Mom on September 22, 2021, 10:31:59 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 22, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse. Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.
It is good to see another W&L fan on the boards. We are few and far between across all sports! This could be the Generals breakthrough year, but I am very, very interested in Friday's CNU game. I think we will learn as much about both teams as can be learned in a single soccer game. I am also hoping the last two games opened the scoring floodgates. The Generals looked strong after the Emory game, but finishing chances seems to be very hit or miss this early in the season.
Aren't "finishing chances hit or miss" true for just about every d3 team?? :D I am encouraged that they aren't reliant on only one goal scorer -- they have a few!
For every team everywhere. But if you want to be a top 10 in D3 and breakthrough in the late stage playoffs you have to consistently score when chances come. Leaving the first game at Emory aside, first games are just that, it was a grind against Ogelthorpe, Lynchburg and even Hanover. Good teams do win grinds, they have to, but too many grinds and you will get unlucky against someone you shouldn't. That is the difference between the very top of D3 and the 8-25 type teams where W&L has generally lived since Coach Singleton started kicking butt and taking names.
I had a great relationship with Coach Piranian, long ago now, but I love what Singleton has done. Hopefully this year will be that next, massively difficult, step from consistently great to elite.
Agree with your thoughts @jknezek. The team seems to have decent depth, which is good. But the upcoming game could be telling!
Easy for me to say, but as long as they don't come out flat I would not expect W&L to have too much trouble versus CNU. I think CNU plays a style that allows goals. I think the question for W&L will be whether they can get through Sweet 16 and/or Elite 8 games versus a Tufts, Amherst, Messiah, Calvin, Hopkins, Oneonta, Rochester, etc 1-0 or 2-1.
I wish W&L good fortune (as long as it's not at Kenyon's expense, which could happen). Where W&L is at reminds me of where Kenyon was 2013-2019ish....knocking on the door and within a ball slipping under a defender's foot, a missed 2OT winner by a foot, a 109th minute very avoidable catastrophe, etc of reaching the Final Four. The pressure to break through may be as big of an opponent as the formidable opponents themselves. Anyway, I think Singleton has what it takes and I definitely could see W&L breaking through.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 22, 2021, 09:22:47 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Why does the USC bother with polls?
MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
Agreed...but MCLA(or North Adams State) were a decent program in the late 1970's and 1980's and made a couple of NCAA Final Four's in the 1970's. Admissions became much harder for athletics when the school switched "names" and raised standards. Men's Hockey was dumped in the early 2000's. The President wanted a different direction in the mid 1990's and looking back he was right because believe me the city of North Adams, MA has benefitted. Of course, Mass Moca and the mayor should be congratulated. Damn that mayor was a horse's ass but he bullied, pushed and prodded to use eminent domain as a threat or sadly a reality. MCLA also started purchasing more land, buildings, etc. Moving historical house after historical house to fit their every need. Sorry a little off track.
That is interesting. I would have never guessed that MCLA (or North Adams State) had been anywhere near a Final Four even 50 years ago.
Look up Tony Crescitelli. One of the greatest ever to play in D3. He went to North Adams State.
Quote from: 1970s NESCAC Player on September 22, 2021, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 10:08:20 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on September 22, 2021, 09:22:47 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 21, 2021, 01:21:14 PM
Why does the USC bother with polls?
MCLA, 1-4, and fresh off a 6-0 thrashing at the hands of......Husson, I'm guessing for the first time in the history of the program has jumped into the RV category.
And I hope F&M had some Dramamine before their free fall from #2 all the way down to #24 within a week after one loss.
Agreed...but MCLA(or North Adams State) were a decent program in the late 1970's and 1980's and made a couple of NCAA Final Four's in the 1970's. Admissions became much harder for athletics when the school switched "names" and raised standards. Men's Hockey was dumped in the early 2000's. The President wanted a different direction in the mid 1990's and looking back he was right because believe me the city of North Adams, MA has benefitted. Of course, Mass Moca and the mayor should be congratulated. Damn that mayor was a horse's ass but he bullied, pushed and prodded to use eminent domain as a threat or sadly a reality. MCLA also started purchasing more land, buildings, etc. Moving historical house after historical house to fit their every need. Sorry a little off track.
That is interesting. I would have never guessed that MCLA (or North Adams State) had been anywhere near a Final Four even 50 years ago.
Look up Tony Crescitelli. One of the greatest ever to play in D3. He went to North Adams State.
LOL....I will look him up. In my very weak defense, in the 70s I was on a tennis court somewhere in NC or another southern state or searching for crayfish (or golf balls) in a creek. I could have never guessed I'd grow up to waste a ton of time on a D3 soccer website (although to be fair 'website' wasn't in my lexicon back then either). I have the same reaction to North Adams State as when I hear someone reference Boston State or Metropolitan State College.
Quote from: jknezek on September 22, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 22, 2021, 09:49:07 AM
All that said, you must be pleased about W&L as you seem to have more than a fleeting interest in that emergent powerhouse. Imo, Centre getting to 2019 Final Four was a bit of a fluke, but I would love to see a W&L, F&M, Hopkins, Trinity, or the like break through and spoil the brackets for those who already had Tufts, Messiah, North Park, Amherst, Calvin, etc penciled in two months ago.
It is good to see another W&L fan on the boards. We are few and far between across all sports! This could be the Generals breakthrough year, but I am very, very interested in Friday's CNU game. I think we will learn as much about both teams as can be learned in a single soccer game.
I can tell you everything you want to know about the Captains, because I learned it the hard way on Sunday. Their commitment is to the air game, because they're very, very good at it. CNU, as far as I can tell, has always taken great pride in being a defense-oriented power (it must've stung them to no end to give up three goals in the second half to Chicago last Friday), and the Captains hew to that principle this season with a four-man backline that sits deep and is very disciplined. As far as how the Captains work the ball upfield is concerned, they have both the size and what I call the "smart physicality" to absolutely dominate you all day long on 50/50s and second balls, and they use that to get the ball from the backline to midfield, and frequently from midfield to the edge of the 18 as well. Everybody can target well, everybody can get airborne and fetch very well, they're technical enough to settle quickly and minimize heavy body touches ... your Generals would be well served to offer sacrifices to the soccer gods for strong winds in Lexington on Friday.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 22, 2021, 01:13:57 PM
I can tell you everything you want to know about the Captains, because I learned it the hard way on Sunday. Their commitment is to the air game, because they're very, very good at it. CNU, as far as I can tell, has always taken great pride in being a defense-oriented power (it must've stung them to no end to give up three goals in the second half to Chicago last Friday), and the Captains hew to that principle this season with a four-man backline that sits deep and is very disciplined. As far as how the Captains work the ball upfield is concerned, they have both the size and what I call the "smart physicality" to absolutely dominate you all day long on 50/50s and second balls, and they use that to get the ball from the backline to midfield, and frequently from midfield to the edge of the 18 as well. Everybody can target well, everybody can get airborne and fetch very well, they're technical enough to settle quickly and minimize heavy body touches ... your Generals would be well served to offer sacrifices to the soccer gods for strong winds in Lexington on Friday.
Dear lord it sounds like my middle school soccer coach from 30 years ago... cones in the back, athletes up front. Cones kick as hard as you can, athletes go and get it. My desire to watch this game just plummeted.
It ain't pretty, but it works for them. At least they're not dump-and-chase with the longball, the way so many D3 teams are.
As I said, CNU targets well, so when they put it in the air it almost always comes down within a two-yard radius of where the intended recipient was standing when the ball was launched.
Guess I need to be more present to get Hopkins on people's brains. ;-)
Pretty big win in Baltimore tonight over #3 St. Mary's. 3-2 on the turf. Game was 3-1 with under 5 when SMC put one away that made the final few moments tense, but without any true danger.
I'll have to catch another few games, but there seems to be something a little different with The Hop and their possession at all costs style. Didn't get to watch more than a self-driven highlight version of the game, but they seemed a lot more willing to kick out wide in transition than they have in past years. Again, I need to watch more game tape, but Hopkins just looked a little more willing to skip over players rather than tediously pass the ball through every player on the backline and then do the same thing through the midfield.
(If anyone has paid any attention to my grumbling, it is that Appleby had them playing possession but to no real dangerous end much of the time. Seems to have, perhaps, decided to go on the attack a bit more.)
St. Mary's remains winless in the all time series, stretching to 24 or 25 matches without a win. But this team seems really dangerous going forward and fairly well organized in the middle. Can't really get on them too much for the three goals... Maybe for a lack of urgency in their marking on the third. Way too much time at the top of the box, allowing for a banger in the upper 90.
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
I'm Game.
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
Not exactly sure how this will work but willing to give it a go.
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
I'm in.
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 24, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
I'm Game.
In.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 24, 2021, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 24, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
I'm Game.
In.
I'm around enough. I'll play
Quote from: Ejay on September 24, 2021, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 24, 2021, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 24, 2021, 09:45:29 AM
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
I'll give this one more go. If anyone is interested in doing a fan poll for D3 soccer let me know. Only got one taker last time.
I'm Game.
In.
I'm around enough. I'll play
OK, sure. Why not? This might be fun ... and at this point I'm already watching enough online D3 soccer to prove that I have no life, anyway. ;)
I think you have a pretty good quorum here, jtk. Go for it!
Awesome. Ok. We now have enough posters to make it worth while. Thanks for volunteering! Once a week, let's say Wednesday before midnight, send me your top 20 D3 teams. Just put it in a private message or, if you want to make my life easy, email me an excel file (you can find my email address on my profile). Put a subject on the email or private message of Soccer Poll or something so I know what it is. I'll collate it all and get it posted the next day. I do the Region 3 football fan poll, so I have a nice Excel Macro that takes care of everything. I'll make a new thread for the first poll and just add the weekly poll to it every week after. Just like the football polls, I'll recognize the posters at the bottom, and show vote totals and individual votes for each team, but your names will not be attached to the individual votes.
If anyone prefers a different day from Wed, let me know. I really don't care so long as it is a weekday.
While I'd love to throw my hat in the ring, I just have to be honest that I'm just too parochial with my following of the game at the moment. I think I could be dragged into a Mid-Atlantic fan poll, but I just don't have the bandwidth to be a fair arbiter of teams outside of the east coast.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 24, 2021, 08:09:19 PM
While I'd love to throw my hat in the ring, I just have to be honest that I'm just too parochial with my following of the game at the moment. I think I could be dragged into a Mid-Atlantic fan poll, but I just don't have the bandwidth to be a fair arbiter of teams outside of the east coast.
I have the same problem. That's why i offered to organize, not vote!
Quote from: jknezek on September 24, 2021, 08:18:01 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 24, 2021, 08:09:19 PM
While I'd love to throw my hat in the ring, I just have to be honest that I'm just too parochial with my following of the game at the moment. I think I could be dragged into a Mid-Atlantic fan poll, but I just don't have the bandwidth to be a fair arbiter of teams outside of the east coast.
I have the same problem. That's why i offered to organize, not vote!
I strongly object. Both of you would be fantastic voters. We all will have to do a little research, but you both are thoughtful, well-reasoned, and would want to be as fair as possible, etc. You're here anyway!
No pressure...but I bet some others will agree.
Also want to go on record saying that I think this poll will very closely track with the D3soccer.com poll.
Finally, I understand the anonymity aspect but I personally wouldn't oppose seeing how everyone votes each week. Might be fun, and fun to see whether folks tend to overrank or underrank their own faves.
I'm sad as I realize I'm typing this on a Friday night....but I'm only sad because I realize I really don't care.
Quote
I'm sad as I realize I'm typing this on a Friday night....but I'm only sad because I realize I really don't care.
And I'm reading it :-) But agreed, the more voters the merrier. I certainly don't follow the midwest/west closely, but I'll certainly be paying close attention to them now.
Enormous win for John Carroll away at Chicago, scoring with 15 seconds left. And apparently without Turritin who indeed must have been struggling with an injury in recent games. At any rate, JCU really needed a result like this which gives them the major added bonus of a near-guaranteed additional ranked win.
In the category of the unexpected....
Oglethorpe must be the best 1-6 team in the country (in a decade?). Started 0-6 and just got first win versus one of the most recent Final 4 participants, Centre, winning 3-0. Oglethorpe first seven games....W&L, Emory, C-M-S and Redlands (West Coast), Lynchburg, Calvin, Centre.
Dickinson is 0-5 after just losing to Ursinus 3-0. Last Ursinus win versus Dickinson was 2013.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 29, 2021, 12:02:09 PM
In the category of the unexpected....
Oglethorpe must be the best 0-6 team in the country (in a decade?). Started 0-6 and just got first win versus one of the most recent Final 4 participants, Centre, winning 3-0. Oglethorpe first seven games....W&L, Emory, C-M-S and Redlands (West Coast), Lynchburg, Calvin, Centre.
Dickinson is 0-5 after just losing to Ursinus 3-0. Last Ursinus win versus Dickinson was 2013.
I don't know about Ogelthorpe's quality, they weren't competitive in a couple of those games and Centre is NOT the team they were in that last run, but I do think Ogelthorpe played a murderer's row and might have had the hardest first 6 games I've ever seen.
Quote from: jknezek on September 29, 2021, 12:23:52 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 29, 2021, 12:02:09 PM
In the category of the unexpected....
Oglethorpe must be the best 0-6 team in the country (in a decade?). Started 0-6 and just got first win versus one of the most recent Final 4 participants, Centre, winning 3-0. Oglethorpe first seven games....W&L, Emory, C-M-S and Redlands (West Coast), Lynchburg, Calvin, Centre.
Dickinson is 0-5 after just losing to Ursinus 3-0. Last Ursinus win versus Dickinson was 2013.
I don't know about Ogelthorpe's quality, they weren't competitive in a couple of those games and Centre is NOT the team they were in that last run, but I do think Ogelthorpe played a murderer's row and might have had the hardest first 6 games I've ever seen.
Agreed. I know Centre isn't 2019 Centre (maybe one of the weaker Final 4 teams in recent memory). And Oglethorpe indeed may be down, but at least stats-wise they did OK or more than OK with most opponents. I also realize Lynchburg must be down in your neck of the woods but I'm sure still decent and capable on the day.
I touted JCU's schedule early on, and then I think someone chimed in with Chicago. For comparison's sake I offer the following below (consecutive and without omitting any weak opponents)......
JCU....Kenyon, Rochester, CMU, Wooster, CWRU, OWU, Denison (canceled weather), Chicago
CNU....Covenant, Gettysburg, Lynchburg, Methodist, Chicago, North Park, W&L, Emory
Emory...Covenant, W&L, Oglethorpe, Calvin, Lynchburg, Roanoke, CNU, Chicago
Chicago...KZoo, Wabash, Macalester, St Olaf, CNU, Luther, Wheaton (Ill), JCU, Calvin, Emory, Carthage, Rochester (bolstered at end there with UAA kicking in)
Oglethorpe (again)...W&L, Emory, CMS, Redlands, Lynchburg, Calvin, Centre
Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak. Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents. Does it help them get to the tournament? There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other. Just not sure it's worth it.
Games to watch today....
The Main Event is Calvin @ Chicago 6:00 pm
The Undercard is headlined by RPI @ SLU (good video, beautiful field) at 4:00 pm; Carthage @ North Park 8:30 pm; F&M @ Muhlenberg 7:00 pm; Lycoming @ Messiah 7:00 pm; Otterbein @ Denison 7:00 pm
Sleeper tilts include Loras @ UW-Whitewater 7:00 pm; Ohio Northern @ Kalamazoo (superb video, nice field) at 7:00 pm; Lebanon Valley @ Elizabethtown 7:00 pm; Haverford @ Washington College 7:00 pm
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 01:51:08 PM
Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak. Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents. Does it help them get to the tournament? There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other. Just not sure it's worth it.
Yes, strong schedule helps teams get in tournament as one of most key criteria (if not the most) is strength of schedule. Of course getting more wins and draws in those tough games as opposed to mostly or all losses is a big key as well. Roughly speaking, an 11-7 record with a brutal schedule serves a team better than going 16-1 with very few to no tough games.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 01:51:08 PM
Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak. Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents. Does it help them get to the tournament? There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other. Just not sure it's worth it.
Strength of Schedule and Results vs Regionally Ranked Opponents matter three different ways, all of which tie back to your Regional Ranking. Both are measures in how the Regional Committees rank the regions. If you win your conferences' automatic qualifier (AQ), then your Regional Ranking will help determine what pod you are in, who hosts the pod, and your tournament seeding. The higher your ranking, the more likely you are to host (though money and geography come into play also), and the more likely you are to get a lower ranked opponent.
If you don't win your conference AQ, then your Regional Ranking determines at what point you are put on the board to be talked about for an "at-large" or Pool C bid. The highest ranking team from each region without an AQ gets to the table first, and no other team from that Region can be discussed until that highest ranking team is selected. So the higher you are in the Regional Rankings, the more likely you are to be talked about. The only way to be selected is to be talked about.
Finally, if you do get an at-large, then your Regional Ranking goes into the calculation in the first paragraph. So yes, you benefit from a high regional ranking, and a large component of your regional ranking is your Strength of Schedule and your results against Regionally Ranked Opponents. If you schedule cupcakes, both of these factors will be bad. If you schedule hard, these factors may be good, but your w/l may be too bad. However, the thing to keep in mind is it is RESULTS against Regionally Ranked opponents. A close loss to a high RRO can be a good RESULT and help out. A blowout loss to a low RRO is generally a bad RESULT.
So it is not as clear cut as we'd like to think, but we have seen over the years that the Regional and National Committees don't tend to respect teams that schedule weak opponents. They do provide leniency to those who schedule strong and perform well in close to half of those tough games as well as winning against lesser opponents.
I may be learning from the above as well. I didn't know that magnitude of loss (scoreline) mattered in selection. I thought a L was a L, period.
Secondly, I thought a win (or loss) against a regionally ranked out of region foe counts.
And of course there is the "ever ranked" regionally versus ranked in last or next to last ranking question, which if I was certain about I would say so.
The score is not taken into account when looking at results and when they are evaluating teams RVR a win against the team ranked #1 is weighed the same as a team ranked #8.
Quote from: d4_Pace on September 29, 2021, 02:40:22 PM
The score is not taken into account when looking at results and when they are evaluating teams RVR a win against the team ranked #1 is weighed the same as a team ranked #8.
Agreed on this. However, h2h results do matter. So a loss to #8 matters more than a loss to #1 by that criteria. I did summarize, so much may not have been perfectly clear and I'm happy to see the updates and clarifications on what I posted.
Looking back I did have lines about close and blowout that are simply incorrect. My fault and good catch guys!
And yes, all Regions RROs do count in your RRO, but here we have the h2h issue as well, either to get to the table in-region, or to get off the table out of region. If you are on the table, but lost to someone in another region who has yet to see the table, that can be a factor. As we all know, every committee is different in how important some criteria is vs. others.
Not sure on the ever ranked stuff. I know we've debated it, and don't want my memories of that to muddle the truth.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 01:51:08 PM
Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak. Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents. Does it help them get to the tournament? There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other. Just not sure it's worth it.
One final thought from me on this...
There are probably scenarios where scheduling tough games (especially of the punching way above your weight category) doesn't make a lot of sense unless a dollop or more of sadism is involved. A middle of the road or even top team in a very weak conference isn't going to get much benefit from taking on the heavyweights within driving difference (unless the top team in weak conference is an anomaly who is on the level or near the level of area heavyweights). Maybe having one or two just to see what it's like? But getting pummeled by a handful of teams seems counter-productive. For such teams their best bet is to win their conference tournament to make the NCAA tourney followed by an unceremonious exit.
Regarding the new weekly poll some of us are participating in, I'll wait until after the poll is posted to share any details, but (and I knew this because I used to post my weekly top 25 or whatever) the task really is a challenge. I got up to about #13 or #14 where I had a no brainer level of confidence. However, when I got to the last 5-6 I had as many as 20-25 teams that could have filled those slots. A Top 25 gives a little more wiggle room but I would have had similar difficulty with that as well. The season progressing should help with weeding out the bubble category to some extent.
Here are the NCAA selection criteria (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/soccer/d3/common/2019-20D3XSO_PreChampsManual.pdf) used the last time playoffs were conducted. These pretty much stay the same from year to year but there are minor changes on occasion.
Section 2•4 Selection Criteria
PRIMARY CRITERIA
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
● Won-lost percentage against Division III opponents;
● Division III head-to-head competition;
● Results versus common Division III opponents;
● Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the final ranking and the ranking preceding the final ranking. Conference postseason contests are included; and
● Division III strength of schedule;
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP);
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
Note: Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members shall remain ineligible for rankings and selections.
SECONDARY CRITERIA
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the secondary criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order). The secondary criteria introduce results against all other opponents, including those contests versus opponents from other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA Divisions I and II).
● Non-Division III won-lost percentage;
● Results versus common non-Division III opponents;
● Division III non-conference strength of schedule.
Should a committee find that evaluation of a team's won-lost percentage during the last 25% of the season is applicable (i.e., end of season performance), it may adopt such criteria with approval from the championships committee.
Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by the soccer committee. In order to be considered for selection for Pools B or C, an institution must play at least 70% of its competition against Division III in-region opponents. Coaches' polls and/or any other outside polls or rankings are not used as a criterion by the soccer committee for selection purposes.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 29, 2021, 02:52:42 PM
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 01:51:08 PM
Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak. Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents. Does it help them get to the tournament? There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other. Just not sure it's worth it.
One final thought from me on this...
There are probably scenarios where scheduling tough games (especially of the punching way above your weight category) doesn't make a lot of sense unless a dollop or more of sadism is involved. A middle of the road or even top team in a very weak conference isn't going to get much benefit from taking on the heavyweights within driving difference (unless the top team in weak conference is an anomaly who is on the level or near the level of area heavyweights). Maybe having one or two just to see what it's like? But getting pummeled by a handful of teams seems counter-productive. For such teams their best bet is to win their conference tournament to make the NCAA tourney followed by an unceremonious exit.
We are waiting on one poll. Though it's not due until midnight, so "waiting" is the wrong word. Hopefully will post tomorrow. And yes, I thought you guys agreed to a tough task.
How do ties factor into all of this? Is it better to have less wins, no losses and lots of ties...or more wins than losses (but a lot of wins)?
Also, if a team is in a very tough conference (UAA, NESCAC, etc.) does it make more sense for them to rack up wins against easier non conference foes and take their chances either winning the league outright or winning enough games to be considered very good?
Thanks...detailed questions but I appreciate the dialogue.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 04:19:45 PM
How do ties factor into all of this? Is it better to have less wins, no losses and lots of ties...or more wins than losses (but a lot of wins)?
For the NCAA's purposes, ties are calculated into a team's winning percentage as being 1/2 of a win and 1/2 of a loss.
Yep the criteria really is fairly objective at first and then gets a little murky in terms of how everything is weighed out. In my opinion the three biggest things they look at are winning %, SOS which is also a percentage, then RVR. There are essentially minimum percentages for both record and strength of schedule for you really to be eligible. There is no firm cutoff but if you have a SOS in the low .500 or below it doesn't matter your win % and vice versa. Now if you are in the NESCAC, UAA etc it doesn't matter who you play out of conference your SOS is going to be high enough to be above that arbitrary cutoff. For that reason top conference teams are incentivized to try to get their winning % up with "easier" out of conference games. This however is a double edged sword because in doing so you limit your chance for ranked wins which is often the deciding tie breaker between teams with solid win % and SOS.
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 04:19:45 PM
How do ties factor into all of this? Is it better to have less wins, no losses and lots of ties...or more wins than losses (but a lot of wins)?
Also, if a team is in a very tough conference (UAA, NESCAC, etc.) does it make more sense for them to rack up wins against easier non conference foes and take their chances either winning the league outright or winning enough games to be considered very good?
Thanks...detailed questions but I appreciate the dialogue.
"Ranked games" are important to have, aside from Ws, Ls, and Ts. A "ranked" tie and a loss is better than having no ranked games at all. Of course, the more wins the better, and then the more ties rather than losses the better.
You won't really understand all this (and as you can see even some of us who have been around for a long time still get confused or trip on a detail or two) UNTIL you understand "ranked wins/ties/losses." "Ranked teams" is attached to regional rankings (different from the coach poll regional rankings) that don't come into existence until the last 3-4 weeks of the season. The first set that comes out in a few weeks doesn't include your "ranked results" as a factor because they haven't happened yet. Thereafter "ranked results" plays a significant role in rankings the second and third weeks (and maybe the 4th week?). And you may think you have a big ranked win based on what you see in first or second set of regional rankings that suddenly disappears (and that's where the "ever ranked" versus "last ranked" deal comes in).
Anyway, there is a certain poster who frequents the site who likely will re-post a detailed explanation.
BTW, I agree with D4 with one add-on. Teams in the best conferences in general can rely on a good enough SoS. However, teams have missed out on a NCAA bid imo when their good enough SoS isn't as good as a few other teams in their region or another region and get bumped out. Off the top of my head, it seems that this has happened to Middlebury a couple of times, and Midd for a NESCAC has tended to have weaker non-conference schedules.
The safest thing to say in general is schedule well and do well and/or win your league's AQ.
Paul you are absolutely correct. In your example Middlebury was employing an embarrassing out of conference schedule and then usually sitting at 10-11 wins out of 16 games. I remember at Tufts during our early years our goal was to hit 10 wins. At the time we always had a top 5 SOS in the country and hitting 10 was the magic number for us to sweat it out but ultimately get in. I think one of those years in particular we jumped a Midd team with 12 wins but a far worse SOS and less ranked wins.
Quote from: d4_Pace on September 29, 2021, 05:34:55 PM
Paul you are absolutely correct. In your example Middlebury was employing an embarrassing out of conference schedule and then usually sitting at 10-11 wins out of 16 games. I remember at Tufts during our early years our goal was to hit 10 wins. At the time we always had a top 5 SOS in the country and hitting 10 was the magic number for us to sweat it out but ultimately get in. I think one of those years in particular we jumped a Midd team with 12 wins but a far worse SOS and less ranked wins.
Yup.
In fairness, Midd is geographically challenged....even more so than Hamilton (in terms of non-conference options). Actually, Williams may be almost as challenging as Midd.
That said, Plattsburgh, RPI, and Skidmore are all 1.5 to 2.25 hours away. SLU, Potsdam, and Springfield are 3 hours, Vassar and Oneonta 3.5 hours, Boston area schools around 3.5 hours (MIT, Brandeis, Wheaton, Babson, etc), WPI 3.75 hours, Cortland 4.5 hours, and Hobart about 5 hours.
@d4_Pace - I'm also a Tufts grad. 1992. Played hoops for Sheldon. So basically if you're in the UAA, NESCAC you schedule 1-2 teams you think will be ranked out of conference (but that aren't top, top teams) and hope to win or tie, then feast on the local mid tier teams to get your win total up and fine tune for the conference season, then go all out in conference games and control your destiny. If you're good enough you'll win enough games against good teams to get in...even if you're not an AQ. My son is a freshman at Carnegie Mellon and that seems to be their strategy. I'd like to see them do what UChicago does and play the best you can.
CMU consistently plays a good schedule and will have a very good SoS. If CMU played an even tougher schedule they would be at high risk for not winning enough games to have a realistic shot at at-large bids. In addition to their UAA schedule, CMU usually has at least two games against opponents like JCU, Kenyon, OWU, Messiah, Dickinson (historically solid), Lycoming, etc. I will say the Tartans appear to have a couple more cupcakes than usual.
Big time, gut check win for Chicago over Calvin after two truly heartbreaking losses. Just as JCU delivered when desperately needing a major win, Chicago does the same. Chicago is a very talented team.
I'm getting the impression that Calvin does not have one of their signature teams this year (which doesn't mean they won't be a Final 4 threat and very tough to knock out when the time comes).
I also have a little bit of that feel with Tufts. IMO there are only a handful of teams that could knock Tufts out and I would still consider them a favorite to get to Elite 8 or Final 4, but I'm not sure they have a Tasker, Braun, Rojas and/or Lane on the offensive end. Amherst has that kind of threat with their NPOY candidate. Could that be the difference?
Meanwhile, OWU is rolling along and Hector Gomez is so far having a NPOY kind of season. The Jaggar kid is obviously a handful as well.
And of course Messiah is sitting there along with emergent W&L.
I think we're starting to see some separation between the top 5-6 teams and the next tier.
Paul yep a huge win for Chicago tonight. I think you are correct in your assessment. I even think the 2019 team was a big step down from the 2018 team that had Vegter and a few other players that had no business playing d3. They obviously made it back to the final four but a 4-0 loss to Tufts showed they weren't quite at the previous level.
I think Messiah is good like always. I think people are really underrating Amherst off of one result, but they just smoked a good Conn College team on the road this past weekend and still have a player many in the know consider one of the best in NESCAC history.
Tufts graduated probably their strongest class ever last year so a step back was expected. That being said they have been suffering through quite an injury crisis so far this year and have still been able to get results. Hopefully they can reintegrate some of those guys and make another run.
One more thing that wasn't mentioned in the excerpt I pulled from the NCAA manual. The Pool C-eligible teams (AQ conferences non-winners, and anyone left from a non-AQ conference that wasn't selected in Pool B, if there are any) in *each NCAA region* are ranked according to those criteria. The top team from each region is put on the table. Those teams are then compared against each other, the top one is selected and replaced by the next highest ranked team from that region, and the process repeats until all the Pool C bids are exhausted. You can be the top eligible team in a weak region and never make it off the table, especially when there are many upsets in conferences whose bid is determined by the winner of a regular season-ending conference tournament.
Quote from: d4_Pace on September 29, 2021, 08:22:59 PM
Paul yep a huge win for Chicago tonight. I think you are correct in your assessment. I even think the 2019 team was a big step down from the 2018 team that had Vegter and a few other players that had no business playing d3. They obviously made it back to the final four but a 4-0 loss to Tufts showed they weren't quite at the previous level.
I think Messiah is good like always. I think people are really underrating Amherst off of one result, but they just smoked a good Conn College team on the road this past weekend and still have a player many in the know consider one of the best in NESCAC history.
Tufts graduated probably their strongest class ever last year so a step back was expected. That being said they have been suffering through quite an injury crisis so far this year and have still been able to get results. Hopefully they can reintegrate some of those guys and make another run.
I'm certainly not underestimating Amherst. Spoiler alert: Amherst in my top 5.
It is amazing what confidence and vibe does to a program. I don't think Tufts is quite as good but I also can't picture anyone beating them (probably even Amherst). We've never gotten the Tufts-Messiah rematch. Maybe this is the year, and if so I hope it's in the Elite 8.
D4, I'm actually curious about your take on something. My gut tells me Elite 8 games are more nerve-wracking and on edge than Final 4 games or maybe at least the semis. Or maybe this is more true for programs who would be going to the Final 4 for the first time or first time on a long time. Would be curious for any other Final 4 participants from any schools chiming in.
Just popped in my head when I was asking myself why I want a Tufts-Messiah Elite 8 game. In all honesty, at least part of that is me not wanting both (either really) in the Final 4.
Oh my, JCU loses to Penn State-B????
PS-B can be pretty good and almost always wins their league and makes the tournament, but still...
And I'm gonna have to pay more attention to RPI and Washington Coll.
My career ended in the Elite 8 so obviously a little biased there versus my fond memories of the final four. I think there are a few factors. One elite 8 games are on campus which makes it a huge deal. Winning the elite 8 means you're season is still going over Thanksgiving break which makes for a much more enjoyable holiday versus coming off a loss. Finally, the final four is weird. There are so many events and activities leading up to the game that you almost have less time to be nervous. Our first experience we were the new kids who didn't know any better and had nothing to lose. then in subsequent years we felt like we know how this works and we're here to win and it doesn't really matter who else is there.
Quote from: d4_Pace on September 29, 2021, 09:32:37 PM
My career ended in the Elite 8 so obviously a little biased there versus my fond memories of the final four. I think there are a few factors. One elite 8 games are on campus which makes it a huge deal. Winning the elite 8 means you're season is still going over Thanksgiving break which makes for a much more enjoyable holiday versus coming off a loss. Finally, the final four is weird. There are so many events and activities leading up to the game that you almost have less time to be nervous. Our first experience we were the new kids who didn't know any better and had nothing to lose. then in subsequent years we felt like we know how this works and we're here to win and it doesn't really matter who else is there.
Thanks. I think for me it's that the stakes of the Elite 8 in terms of winning or losing are just bigger than the Final 4 games. It determines whether you get to the final 4 or not...and the meaning/significance of getting to a Final 4 compared to getting only to the Elite 8 is massively different.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 29, 2021, 08:09:18 PM
Big time, gut check win for Chicago over Calvin after two truly heartbreaking losses. Just as JCU delivered when desperately needing a major win, Chicago does the same. Chicago is a very talented team.
I'm getting the impression that Calvin does not have one of their signature teams this year (which doesn't mean they won't be a Final 4 threat and very tough to knock out when the time comes).
After two head-scratching stunners, UChicago played its best game of the season against Calvin. The fact the Maroons kept possession so well was eye-opening (65 percent I bet). This is nothing new for Maroon teams over the past 7 years or so, but it was kinda shocking that Calvin had no real answer for it, and only got off one shot on goal. UChicago kept the ball moving and didn't fall into their typical habits of trying to execute the perfect pass or the cheeky dribble.
The main thing the Maroons showed was they can change their play style and hang with anyone in the nation. They are a very technical team that can play beautiful soccer when they make the right decisions with the ball. The defense is elite (CB Wada in particular). The offense is still a huge question mark though - they simply don't score enough. If they can fix that during UAA play, they will prove dangerous at the NCAAs. That's a big if though.
After watching Calvin, I can definitely say this team is not on the level of the pre-2019 squads. The Knights didn't have that rarefied air about them tonight, and the Maroons made them look very vulnerable. Is Calvin a top 5 team? Nope. But NCAA postseason is a whole other animal, and they know how to win on that stage.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 29, 2021, 08:09:18 PMI'm getting the impression that Calvin does not have one of their signature teams this year (which doesn't mean they won't be a Final 4 threat and very tough to knock out when the time comes).
I would agree with that. I've seen Calvin twice, not counting about five minutes of watching the Knights pull the wings off of a fly against Finlandia before I switched to another game in disgust. Both of those occasions (Aurora and Carthage) were when the Knights were home at Zuidema, and I was not at all impressed by them. That surprised me, because they returned a ton of good players from 2019. But Ryan Souders always seems to round his team into something dangerous by the time November rolls around, so I wouldn't write them off yet.
Meanwhile, North Park absolutely buried Carthage this evening, 4-0. The Firebirds didn't even get off a shot in the first half, and ended the game with only three, with the lone SOG coming from an extreme angle 20 yards out on a Sunday hop. Carthage had zero good looks in the forward third, largely because they rarely even got there; I'm pretty sure possession time tonight was at least 70/30 in favor of NPU. This was a glimpse of the Vikings team that I've been waiting to see all season.
Inside the Paul Newman Top 20 Voting War Room....
PN's Top 10
1) WASHINGTON & LEE
2) MESSIAH
3) TUFTS
4) AMHERST
5) OWU
6) MIDDLEBURY
7) TRINITY (TX)
8) NYU
9) CALVIN
10) EMORY
-- The 3 I did NOT vote for that make the "official" poll are N. Central, F&M, and Carthage (all close, especially the first two, but was actually closer to voting for Wheaton (ILL) than N. Central or Carthage...those as well as F&M for me fell in the category of need more data).
-- The 3 I DID vote for that did not make it are Hope (in 10 minutes ago but now out lol), St Olaf (Travis Wall haha), and Pacific Lutheran (in my final spot and maybe a bit of a flyer but they have destroyed last 4 or so opponents who I don't think were all cupcakes).
-- I did NOT vote for Kenyon...haven't earned it and need more data and 3 game stretch @Denison, OWU, and @ Wabash will be telling.
-- Strongly considered JCU and North Park (and view both as top 20 teams big picture). And of course JCU went out last night and lost at HOME to PS-B (but did have overwhelming stats edge which can happen).
-- Kind of developing my own rules and criteria as I go, but would call my approach a combo or mix of who I truly think the best teams are AND actual results to date.
Putting this post here so as not to mess with the actual poll thread.
Addendum: Same rationale for NOT including Chicago as JCU and NP...definitely one of best 20 but have to earn it back and certainly last night will help Maroons get back on track.
Addendum #2...The PN War Room is at an abandoned service station with a faded ESSO sign, down a set of stairs in one of the garage stalls, down a hall, through a room, and then into another room with a huge white board and a single lightbulb dangling from a cord. My happy place. When you show up, walk up to the two old codgers on the stoop of the station smoking Winstons and give them the password....which is MAJUMDER...if they demand a second one say NUTMEG.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 30, 2021, 09:48:59 AM-- The 3 I did NOT vote for that make the "official" poll are N. Central, F&M, and Carthage (all close, especially the first two, but was actually closer to voting for Wheaton (ILL) than N. Central or Carthage
At this juncture, Wheaton is a better team than either North Central or Carthage. The Cardinals have that gaudy record, but other than Dubuque they haven't played anybody of quality (and Dubuque has been shakier than expected), while the Firebirds are too young and inconsistent to hang in the Top 25 for now. Next Wednesday is the big annual showdown between Wheaton and North Park, with NPU visiting the western suburbs this year, and that may be the game that decides the CCIW race -- as it so often has over the past two decades.
North Central visits Carthage this Saturday, and that will also be a game to watch.
The good news for the CCIW is aside from rankings there are 4 teams in the conversation and relevant, and any of the 4 could knock the others out in a one-off playoff match.
At the very top imo there is a virtual tie between W&L, Messiah, and Tufts...similarly strong but not brutal schedules, all with 2-3 OT games, and all with 1-2 draws.
I'm not sold on Otterbein who I have at 14 or 15, but they've played a pretty good schedule and keep getting results so I considered them deserving. And still in the "need to see more" mode with N Central, Augsburg, Wilmington and probably a couple of others with gaudy records (e.g. Coast Guard).
I watched a fair amount of Otterbein @ Denison last night. Ended 1-1. Denison is 4-3-1 and Otterbein is 6-0-2. Very, very similar schedules and imo based on last night very evenly matched teams with if anything Denison having a slight edge. And yet one has a very enviable record and the other just so-so. Hard to explain but I suppose good fortune, karma, and momentum play roles.
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 29, 2021, 02:04:08 PM
Quote from: D3_Slack on September 29, 2021, 01:51:08 PM
Looks like a lot of D3 teams play local non-league schedules...and the opponents are weak. Would value this boards opinion on whether it makes sense for D3 teams to schedule tough non-conference opponents. Does it help them get to the tournament? There are enough good teams near each other to schedule each other. Just not sure it's worth it.
Yes, strong schedule helps teams get in tournament as one of most key criteria (if not the most) is strength of schedule. Of course getting more wins and draws in those tough games as opposed to mostly or all losses is a big key as well. Roughly speaking, an 11-7 record with a brutal schedule serves a team better than going 16-1 with very few to no tough games.
If I remember correctly, Lynchburg 2018 is a great example. 13-2-2 on the year. Their 4 blemishes:
1. Drawing at #12 UMW
2. Drawing with W&L (14-3-2 and won the ODAC)
3. Lost to Bridgewater in regular season
4. Lost to Bridgewater in ODAC semis
Non-conference wins:
Averett (4-13-1)
Oberlin (1-16)
Dickinson (11-6-2)
CNU (7-8-1... uncharacteristic bad year)
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 30, 2021, 11:32:45 AM
I'm not sold on Otterbein who I have at 14 or 15, but they've played a pretty good schedule and keep getting results so I considered them deserving. And still in the "need to see more" mode with N Central, Augsburg, Wilmington and probably a couple of others with gaudy records (e.g. Coast Guard).
I watched a fair amount of Otterbein @ Denison last night. Ended 1-1. Denison is 4-3-1 and Otterbein is 6-0-2. Very, very similar schedules and imo based on last night very evenly matched teams with if anything Denison having a slight edge. And yet one has a very enviable record and the other just so-so. Hard to explain but I suppose good fortune, karma, and momentum play roles.
In the same camp as you @PaulNewman. I think they have some things going for them, and was impressed that they pulled out a tie with OWU. Although not sure if it was because they were good or because OWU was off that night. Watching the Denison game next so hope to have a better idea.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 30, 2021, 12:15:57 AM
I would agree with that. I've seen Calvin twice, not counting about five minutes of watching the Knights pull the wings off of a fly against Finlandia before I switched to another game in disgust. Both of those occasions (Aurora and Carthage) were when the Knights were home at Zuidema, and I was not at all impressed by them.
I would agree, having seen a number of their games as well. I am not a soccer "expert", but they just don't pass the eye test to me right now. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they didn't win the MIAA and are on the bubble come tournament time.
#2 Trinity (TX) had to go to OT to defeat last year's SCAC conference champion, Centenary (LA) 1-0. Centenary sat back all night and despite a 9-2 SOG advantage Trinity could not get it past the Gents' keeper until their 10th SOG 4+ minutes into OT. The winner was a header off a well-delivered free kick from about 30' out that fell perfectly at the top of the 6 (https://youtu.be/lsfA8hshbn0?t=8131).
Trinity played without their starting keeper (injury), leading scorer (not sure why but second game out in a week), and an all-conference defender lost for the season to a knee injury (and who scored his first two goals of the season in his last game).
Quote from: calvin_grad on October 01, 2021, 03:42:51 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 30, 2021, 12:15:57 AM
I would agree with that. I've seen Calvin twice, not counting about five minutes of watching the Knights pull the wings off of a fly against Finlandia before I switched to another game in disgust. Both of those occasions (Aurora and Carthage) were when the Knights were home at Zuidema, and I was not at all impressed by them.
I would agree, having seen a number of their games as well. I am not a soccer "expert", but they just don't pass the eye test to me right now. I wouldn't be shocked at all if they didn't win the MIAA and are on the bubble come tournament time.
Having watched them a few times, the only thing that stood out to me was their center back. The kid can play. Other than that, thought they were pretty conventional on how they attacked. Didn't think they were all too impressive against Chicago. To me they were a lesser version of Franklin & Marshall.
I'm one of the observers who commented that Calvin may be down a little. I would just add caution here. Souders may be the best coach in the country sans-Shapiro at Tufts (and I should say one of the best because there are at least a handful at that level), and come November don't be shocked if the Knights are making another trip to the Final Four. Twigg is one of the best, most dangerous offensive players in the country.
I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get. They often sub very little. Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth. Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench. It is D3 soccer after all. Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.
Some huge results emerging out of the UAA with NYU and Wash U looking strong, both on the road at CWRU and UR respectively. Last checked Brandeis and CMU were locked up 1-1 and Chicago finally snuck out in front of Emory.
Elsewhere, W&L keeps rolling with another win over rival Lynchburg, Oneonta obliterating Potsdam. F&M adding to Dickinson's misery, Haverford getting a 1-0 OT over Muhlenberg, MIT with major NEWMAC win at Coast Guard, and Wilmington being held to a draw at home versus not so great Heidelberg.
And down goes Augsburg...3-0 deficit with less than 8 left to Johnnies of St. John's.
Not a great day for upstarts Wilmington, Augsburg, and Coast Guard.
The W&L win comes playing with 10 men for the last 35 minutes of the game.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 02, 2021, 12:02:00 PM
I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get. They often sub very little. Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth. Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench. It is D3 soccer after all. Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.
I have absolutely no idea why you think that Calvin's faith orientation ought to affect Ryan Souders' substitution patterns.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2021, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 02, 2021, 12:02:00 PM
I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get. They often sub very little. Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth. Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench. It is D3 soccer after all. Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.
I have absolutely no idea why you think that Calvin's faith orientation ought to affect Ryan Souders' substitution patterns.
Should I just ignore this, Greg? Or were you looking for a response.
I've wildly praised Souders for the past 5-6 years and basically called him the best coach in D3 yesterday, but pick out and focus on whatever you like as I know you will.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 03, 2021, 05:20:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 02, 2021, 11:54:53 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 02, 2021, 12:02:00 PM
I will say there is one thing about Calvin I don't get. They often sub very little. Hard to believe given the program's history, reputation, and very recent extreme success that Souders would struggle with recruiting and building depth. Maybe it's a philosophical thing, and I admit I may be biased because of the school's orientation, but it's strange to me to see a deeply Christian-oriented school leave so many young men glued to the bench. It is D3 soccer after all. Messiah on the other hand has a history of having a very deep bench and playing them.
I have absolutely no idea why you think that Calvin's faith orientation ought to affect Ryan Souders' substitution patterns.
Should I just ignore this, Greg? Or were you looking for a response.
Take it any way that you like. I just don't understand the connection you're making between the Christian faith and how many players a coach chooses to use during a soccer game, that's all.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 03, 2021, 05:20:04 PMI've wildly praised Souders for the past 5-6 years and basically called him the best coach in D3 yesterday, but pick out and focus on whatever you like as I know you will.
I didn't say that you criticized Souders as a coach for his recruiting ability or for his tactical skills per se. As you pointed out, you've made it apparent that you respect his coaching acumen. But you
were questioning his refusal to sub heavily, in light of the fact that Calvin is a Christian school. And I'm simply puzzled as to how you draw a line connecting Christian doctrine to a coach's substitution patterns.
Messiah does things one way, and good on them for that. But that doesn't mean that every other Christian school's soccer program -- or anything else about the school, for that matter -- has to line up 100% with the way that Messiah does things. Christian schools aren't stamped out by a cookie cutter, and neither are Christian soccer coaches.
Ryan Souders is a Wheaton grad -- and a heckuva former goalkeeper for WC, by the way -- and I am familiar enough with both his alma mater and his current employer to assure you that Calvin does things
very differently than Wheaton in myriad ways, soccer and otherwise.
On a personal note, I'm not being hostile and I'm not looking for an argument. I only stated that I'm genuinely puzzled as to how you made that connection. But I'm more than happy to drop this topic. I'm not seeking to wade into troubled waters for either of us.
Not going to inquire any further in an environment that doesn't clearly embrace inquiry except to clarify that I wanted to understand how the commitment that is the most overriding one informs or doesn't inform certain practices. I never said what he or anyone else ought to do or not do. I said I wanted to understand what I didn't understand.
I will add that I have commented numerous times over several years about far more than Souders' coaching acumen. I've focused mostly on his leadership, the character he exudes, the way he talks about all of his players, the way they seem to love him and are inspired to perform at a high level, the way he at least acts like he genuinely appreciates opponents, etc. Like I said, he's among the very best in the country and Calvin has been and will continue to be one of the premier programs in the country.
It's not a matter of not wanting to embrace inquiry. It's really more a matter of not wanting to waste time and energy and cause ill-will in light of the fact that you and I have very different and well-entrenched worldviews, particularly in the area of religous faith. To me, a back-and-forth that involves that sort of thing is not only the textbook definition of creating heat rather than light, it also really doesn't have anything to do with D3 soccer in an intrinsic sense ... and that's what this board is for.
I did appreciate your clarification:
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 03, 2021, 10:15:31 PMexcept to clarify that I wanted to understand how the commitment that is the most overriding one informs or doesn't inform certain practices.
... which is fair, because I don't view this at all as an issue, and I've never known any coach at a Christian school who does. Your original inquiry was thus absolutely alien to me, which is why I expressed puzzlement.
I think that the general idea for most D3 coaches, regardless of their faith background or lack of same, is identical -- play to win, don't jeopardize the win or any future games, and, within those parameters, get as many kids on the field or on the court as possible once the outcome has been securely decided.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 03, 2021, 10:02:44 PM
I never said what he or anyone else ought to do or not do. I said I wanted to understand what I didn't understand.
I won't pretend to speak for Souders, or Brad McCarty, or any other coach on this score, but I'll venture to guess that they just don't see it as a faith issue at all. If I had to hazard a guess, coaches at Christian schools would probably to a man (or woman) say something along the lines of, "My job is to have my team perform to the best of its ability, using the talents God gave each player, by using my experience and my expertise in this sport and the ability that God gave me to be a leader and teacher." But because the nuts and bolts of how you manage a team with regard to playing time, injuries, preparing younger players for the next step, rewarding excellent practice performances and habits, etc., and doing all that within the context of how a game is playing itself out, is a universal thing that really doesn't involve faith in any direct way, I don't see how it plays out differently for them.
Of course, if any Calvin or Messiah fan wants to chime in and insist that their coach
does coach his team's games along some specific Christian model with regard to playing time that contrasts with other models of in-game lineup management, I'm certainly not going to argue with someone closer to that particular situation than I am.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 03, 2021, 10:15:31 PMI will add that I have commented numerous times over several years about far more than Souders' coaching acumen. I've focused mostly on his leadership, the character he exudes, the way he talks about all of his players, the way they seem to love him and are inspired to perform at a high level, the way he at least acts like he genuinely appreciates opponents, etc. Like I said, he's among the very best in the country and Calvin has been and will continue to be one of the premier programs in the country.
I agree. I interviewed him on the air two years ago after Calvin's win over Luther in the sectional final at NPU, and I was impressed by him. Not so much by what he said -- coachspeak is coachspeak, after all -- but by what he did. He brought his family with him into the Holmgren Athletic Complex press box, and I got the distinct impression from him that he did so to let his two little daughters share the experience. Nothing about the press box at Holmgren Athletic Complex would impress most adults, and I'm well aware that a D3 soccer webstream is pretty small potatoes as far as a television production goes, sectional final or not. But the mere fact that he wanted his little girls to be a part of that, to see Dad get interviewed with cameras and microphones and a lot of important-looking adults standing around, impressed me -- not because it was an ego thing on his part, but because it was a fatherhood thing. Besides any coaching testimonials, it speaks volumes about Ryan Souders as a man.
This is an interesting discussion - I would submit that a genuine Christian faith should absolutely impact how one coaches. Some key tenants in Christianity are: sacrifice, selflessness, humility, valuing all people regardless of what they can do for you, love, and the list could go on. D3 coaches modeling those behaviors would be the exception rather than the rule, and one can live by those values and still pursue winning every possible game. Some would say that style of coaching is transformational rather than transactional, basically that the coach coaches so that his players and programs are transformed individually and collectively, versus coaching so that the players make a transaction for the coach - which would be winning.
And yes anyone could coach according to those values. But a genuine Christian faith would value these things already, and it would be expressed in all aspects of life - including the coaching profession.
Quote from: d3closefollower on October 04, 2021, 10:13:39 AM
This is an interesting discussion - I would submit that a genuine Christian faith should absolutely impact how one coaches. Some key tenants in Christianity are: sacrifice, selflessness, humility, valuing all people regardless of what they can do for you, love, and the list could go on. D3 coaches modeling those behaviors would be the exception rather than the rule, and one can live by those values and still pursue winning every possible game. Some would say that style of coaching is transformational rather than transactional, basically that the coach coaches so that his players and programs are transformed individually and collectively, versus coaching so that the players make a transaction for the coach - which would be winning.
And yes anyone could coach according to those values. But a genuine Christian faith would value these things already, and it would be expressed in all aspects of life - including the coaching profession.
Thank you.
Quote from: d3closefollower on October 04, 2021, 10:13:39 AM
This is an interesting discussion - I would submit that a genuine Christian faith should absolutely impact how one coaches. Some key tenants in Christianity are: sacrifice, selflessness, humility, valuing all people regardless of what they can do for you, love, and the list could go on. D3 coaches modeling those behaviors would be the exception rather than the rule, and one can live by those values and still pursue winning every possible game. Some would say that style of coaching is transformational rather than transactional, basically that the coach coaches so that his players and programs are transformed individually and collectively, versus coaching so that the players make a transaction for the coach - which would be winning.
And yes anyone could coach according to those values. But a genuine Christian faith would value these things already, and it would be expressed in all aspects of life - including the coaching profession.
I have no argument at all with anything that you said here, aside from the caveat that I think a Christian coach would insist that transformational coaching doesn't hinder the will to win, or the ability to win, and that it in fact might enhance the creation of a winning team culture more than a transactional coaching model would.
Just a question, though: How does what you said apply to the specific question at hand, re: substitution patterns?
So W&L retains their top spot in the national polls and may do so for the rest of the season since i suspect they should be favored in most contest moving forward. I do think are argument can be made that the winner of Tufts-Amherst in two weeks will have a strong claim if they can both take care of business this week.
I have to say I really don't believe Trinity is the second best team in the country. My opinion on their program is largely influenced by when they came to play at Tufts and were blown out by Kenyon 4-0 in the sweet 16 despite being ranked #1 in the country at the time. Ever since then I have been suspicious of their gaudy win loss records.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
So W&L retains their top spot in the national polls and may do so for the rest of the season since i suspect they should be favored in most contest moving forward. I do think are argument can be made that the winner of Tufts-Amherst in two weeks will have a strong claim if they can both take care of business this week.
I have to say I really don't believe Trinity is the second best team in the country. My opinion on their program is largely influenced by when they came to play at Tufts and were blown out by Kenyon 4-0 in the sweet 16 despite being ranked #1 in the country at the time. Ever since then I have been suspicious of their gaudy win loss records.
Mostly agree with your sentiments. I'm trying to recall how W&L jumped Tufts (and maybe Messiah?), including in my own fan poll. Maybe because W&L had their one blemish right out of the gate, and maybe because the draw with Emory was with a more highly rated opponent than Tufts' draw with Colby which also occurred later. All of the top few teams had some close calls but Tufts seemed perilously close to another blemish or two with very late 2OT GWs. That's not to say W&L wouldn't have been challenged in a game in Waterville. It's also true that while W&L has had what I would term a nicely competitive schedule, it hasn't been as brutal as some have faced and the Generals certainly as you suggested are not facing a NESCAC-type schedule the rest of the way. All that said, and perhaps this is wrong, but I don't necessarily think whoever is ranked #1 at any given time is the best team....sort of like the best player in the NBA doesn't necessarily win MVP. I will probably keep W&L at #1 until they get another blemish barring something unforeseen, but that doesn't mean I think they are the best out of the top 4. I do think the top 4 have separated themselves in my mind but in terms of best team or odds to win the title I'd probably put W&L 4th (with Tufts, Messiah, and Amherst in some order above them).
As for Trinity, I've already said they often seem to be mildly over-ranked but in imo they are consistently a top 10 team and sometimes banging on the door of the top 5. You may be overly influenced by that one result in Medford. I mean, after all, give those Lords their due ;).....and consider that the year before they took Amherst (eventual champion) in 2015 to the 106th minute before NPL broke through. That was an Elite 8 game AT Amherst, and the day before Trinity had knocked off a very good Brandeis squad. Trinity also lost in the Elite 8 round in the two previous seasons. In 2013, they lost a tight one to nemesis Loras, and then in 2014 they finally got by Loras only to lose to Wheaton. So they made 3 Elite 8s in a row prior to the Kenyon game. I would agree, though, that #2 at this juncture is at least a few spots too high.
Addendum: I can vaguely recall watching the 2013 Loras vs Trinity Elite 8 game. That was the weekend of the bitterly cold front vortex (I know the word vortex is in there somewhere) that impacted multiple sectional sites, and in addition to playing at home at the Rock Bowl there was a sense that the weather was very much an advantage for the Duhawks as the Tigers were used to milder temps. Trinity got the first tally but fell 2-1, playing a man down for the final 23 minutes. They also picked up another couple of reds for their troubles near or at the final whistle.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PMI have to say I really don't believe Trinity is the second best team in the country. My opinion on their program is largely influenced by when they came to play at Tufts and were blown out by Kenyon 4-0 in the sweet 16 despite being ranked #1 in the country at the time. Ever since then I have been suspicious of their gaudy win loss records.
But that was five years ago.
Of course, whether or not you have a statute of limitations concerning which games influence your opinion is entirely your business and nobody else's.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
So W&L retains their top spot in the national polls and may do so for the rest of the season since i suspect they should be favored in most contest moving forward. I do think are argument can be made that the winner of Tufts-Amherst in two weeks will have a strong claim if they can both take care of business this week.
I have to say I really don't believe Trinity is the second best team in the country. My opinion on their program is largely influenced by when they came to play at Tufts and were blown out by Kenyon 4-0 in the sweet 16 despite being ranked #1 in the country at the time. Ever since then I have been suspicious of their gaudy win loss records.
The 2018 season comes to mind for me. UChicago went down to Texas in the first week of the season and should have won, but couldn't hold a two-goal lead and settled for a 3-3 tie (the game had 9 total cards handed out and it definitely got contentious).
The two sides rematched in the Sweet 16 at UChicago. Trinity came out firing and had some close calls, but once the Maroons settled into their possession game, TUT dried up offensively. That game also featured 2 highlight goals in the second half from The Great Max Lopez, and 2-0 was the final.
Yeah I recognize that that teams performance has nothing to do with this iteration. However, I think the same factors still exist that lead to them being overrated, namely dominating what is easily the weakest region of DIII soccer. I also think they benefit from an easy run to the sweet 16 almost every year due to the dearth of west coast teams. They usually end up in a first four pod of teams that have already handily defeated in the regular season.
D4, just curious if you felt the same way after you guys blew out Montclair 4-0 in the Elite 8. I was at that game and iirc Tufts was up 2-0 within first 10-15 minutes. Strange game. Montclair seemed remarkably anemic and IDK if because seemed already out of it after 15 minutes or not, but they looked almost disinterested. I was very surprised....I thought Tufts would win but assumed it would be competitive.
Oh yeah I also do not see Montclair st as a legitimate national championship contender but for different reasons. I think just based on the profile of the school and the way the program is run with kids transferring in and out they always have a few individual superstars but do not play together as a team. I just think its a recipe for good teams and seasons, but it falls short when put to the test at the highest level.
That game was 3-0 within 15 minutes and completely over. I think more than anything it was a poor tactical decision. They came out in a 3-4-3 with very little cover in midfield that played right into our hands and before them could make an adjustment the game was over.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 08:43:24 PM
Yeah I recognize that that teams performance has nothing to do with this iteration. However, I think the same factors still exist that lead to them being overrated, namely dominating what is easily the weakest region of DIII soccer. I also think they benefit from an easy run to the sweet 16 almost every year due to the dearth of west coast teams. They usually end up in a first four pod of teams that have already handily defeated in the regular season.
Co-sign.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 09:14:14 PM
Oh yeah I also do not see Montclair st as a legitimate national championship contender but for different reasons. I think just based on the profile of the school and the way the program is run they always have a few individual superstars but do not play together as a team. I think at this level that type of team will never be capable of winning it all.
That game was 3-0 within 15 minutes and completely over. I think more than anything it was a poor tactical decision. They came out in a 3-4-3 with very little cover in midfield that played right into our hands and before them could make an adjustment the game was over.
Yup...seemed like Tufts was playing 10 v 8 in a practice scrimmage with the coach telling the 8 to not play super hard.
I'd challenge just a bit on the pod thing. I sort of agreed with you but then I remembered that the top seeds in New England get at least easy game and sometimes two pretty easy games....like you can pencil Tufts and Amherst into the second weekend almost like they got byes.
I don't know how I got into advocating for Trinity a bit, but even if you think their pods are soft, they often end up getting screwed to a degree like ending up in Amherst and Medford in back to back years, and especially for the second where most would have said Trinity deserved to host but the NCAA didn't want to fly 3 teams, 2 from Boston area, to San Antonio. Kenyon's had become infected with some fungus and couldn't host, and the obvious and only choice became Medford.
Thats certainly a fair point. But Tufts has played a top St Joes team and barely beat a solid WPI last time out in second round games. I think in general those teams are a little stronger. But overall you're right.
Another very valid point. We definitely lucked into hosting that year.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 09:48:20 PM
Another very valid point. We definitely lucked into hosting that year.
I really should blame Haverford for a stunning loss to UMass-Boston, AT Haverford, with UMass going for a long stretch in regulation and both OTs with 9 (or was it 8) men before ending their season with PKs. The sectional almost certainly would have gone to Haverford who would have been a bigger challenge to Tufts.....but alas, that didn't happen.
Quote from: blue_jays on October 05, 2021, 07:57:12 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
So W&L retains their top spot in the national polls and may do so for the rest of the season since i suspect they should be favored in most contest moving forward. I do think are argument can be made that the winner of Tufts-Amherst in two weeks will have a strong claim if they can both take care of business this week.
I have to say I really don't believe Trinity is the second best team in the country. My opinion on their program is largely influenced by when they came to play at Tufts and were blown out by Kenyon 4-0 in the sweet 16 despite being ranked #1 in the country at the time. Ever since then I have been suspicious of their gaudy win loss records.
The 2018 season comes to mind for me. UChicago went down to Texas in the first week of the season and should have won, but couldn't hold a two-goal lead and settled for a 3-3 tie (the game had 9 total cards handed out and it definitely got contentious).
I watched that game! It was about 120 degrees on the field. The PBP guy couldn't stop complaining about the heat, which I gotta figure for San Antonio meant that it must've been like playing inside a blast oven. Just watching that game on the Internet made me sweat. I thought that the poor guys from Chicago were going to melt into little maroon puddles on the pitch. No wonder they got chippy (and they
were the chippier team). I was amazed that they hung on enough to salvage a tie.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 05, 2021, 10:06:43 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on October 05, 2021, 07:57:12 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 05, 2021, 06:09:24 PM
So W&L retains their top spot in the national polls and may do so for the rest of the season since i suspect they should be favored in most contest moving forward. I do think are argument can be made that the winner of Tufts-Amherst in two weeks will have a strong claim if they can both take care of business this week.
I have to say I really don't believe Trinity is the second best team in the country. My opinion on their program is largely influenced by when they came to play at Tufts and were blown out by Kenyon 4-0 in the sweet 16 despite being ranked #1 in the country at the time. Ever since then I have been suspicious of their gaudy win loss records.
The 2018 season comes to mind for me. UChicago went down to Texas in the first week of the season and should have won, but couldn't hold a two-goal lead and settled for a 3-3 tie (the game had 9 total cards handed out and it definitely got contentious).
I watched that game! It was about 120 degrees on the field. The PBP guy couldn't stop complaining about the heat, which I gotta figure for San Antonio meant that it must've been like playing inside a blast oven. Just watching that game on the Internet made me sweat. I thought that the poor guys from Chicago were going to melt into little maroon puddles on the pitch. No wonder they got chippy (and they were the chippier team). I was amazed that they hung on enough to salvage a tie.
Then when they played again on Nov. 17 in Chicago, it was rainy and temps in the 30s, much more of what UChicago is used to, lol. Only 4 cards in the rematch. Looking back at the box score, UChicago outshot TUT 13-0 in the second half.
The 120 degrees reminds me of when UChicago football went down to Millsaps in Sept. 2015 and the turf was so hot that Jackson Garrey's cleats melted.
With so many games being available via stream I have watched (literally) almost every top team. I've also caught a bunch of teams at the top of their conference tables to get a sense for what each of the leagues are like. Watching so much D3 soccer has been really interesting and fun. That said, here's what I've seen thus far. There is a ton of parity across the country. I don't see it as the top x number of teams have separated themselves. In fact, I think the championship is completely wide open. I just haven't seen a team that has it all yet. Looking back at those Tufts teams that won under Shapiro they were amazing offensively and defensively with great GK play. I just haven't seen that complete team yet. Not from Tufts, Amherst, NYU, W&L, Messiah, etc. A team to keep an eye on - Emory. Their level of play over the course of the season has improved significantly...but they need to go through a very tough UAA slate. We'll see. Bottom line. This thing is wide open.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 05, 2021, 07:18:59 PM
Mostly agree with your sentiments. I'm trying to recall how W&L jumped Tufts (and maybe Messiah?), including in my own fan poll. Maybe because W&L had their one blemish right out of the gate, and maybe because the draw with Emory was with a more highly rated opponent than Tufts' draw with Colby which also occurred later. All of the top few teams had some close calls but Tufts seemed perilously close to another blemish or two with very late 2OT GWs. That's not to say W&L wouldn't have been challenged in a game in Waterville. It's also true that while W&L has had what I would term a nicely competitive schedule, it hasn't been as brutal as some have faced and the Generals certainly as you suggested are not facing a NESCAC-type schedule the rest of the way. All that said, and perhaps this is wrong, but I don't necessarily think whoever is ranked #1 at any given time is the best team....sort of like the best player in the NBA doesn't necessarily win MVP. I will probably keep W&L at #1 until they get another blemish barring something unforeseen, but that doesn't mean I think they are the best out of the top 4. I do think the top 4 have separated themselves in my mind but in terms of best team or odds to win the title I'd probably put W&L 4th (with Tufts, Messiah, and Amherst in some order above them).
This is just one of those things that polls don't tend to do very well. I love my Generals. Proud alumni. But do I think they are the best team in the country? I have my doubts. Do I think they are a very good team with a solid chance of winning the tournament? Absolutely. But I think there are other teams that have consistently vaulted that hump the Generals have yet to get over. And that experience matters. Maybe not as much this year, given the cluster that was last year, but teams that know they can get to the Final Four because they already have... well, that is a psychological advantage come tournament time.
Fortunately we will get the tournament to shake all this out. Maybe this will be the Generals' year. I certainly hope so. But best in the country? Well... they've kept on winning while playing a decent schedule. Roanoke is yet to come, and the ODAC tournament is never easy. So challenges still lie ahead. Just not the same challenges a NESCAC or UAA team will face.
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 06, 2021, 09:11:41 AM
With so many games being available via stream I have watched (literally) almost every top team. I've also caught a bunch of teams at the top of their conference tables to get a sense for what each of the leagues are like. Watching so much D3 soccer has been really interesting and fun. That said, here's what I've seen thus far. There is a ton of parity across the country. I don't see it as the top x number of teams have separated themselves. In fact, I think the championship is completely wide open. I just haven't seen a team that has it all yet. Looking back at those Tufts teams that won under Shapiro they were amazing offensively and defensively with great GK play. I just haven't seen that complete team yet. Not from Tufts, Amherst, NYU, W&L, Messiah, etc. A team to keep an eye on - Emory. Their level of play over the course of the season has improved significantly...but they need to go through a very tough UAA slate. We'll see. Bottom line. This thing is wide open.
You could be right.
I'd make a distinction between any team within the top 40 might beat another team on the day, like no shock if any UAA team beats another UAA team regardless of record and pretty much same with NESCAC, BUT, in terms of a title....I can't recall a true surprise winner in my recent memory with the possible exception of the 1st Tufts title which in some ways seemed to come out of nowhere even though that was a super-talented team. I mean, since 2010...Messiah, OWU, Messiah, Tufts, Amherst, Tufts, Messiah, Tufts, Tufts. There has been an occasional surprise to make the Final 4 but not winning it.
I know what you mean about previous Tufts teams, but it's easy to forget that at least a couple of those Tufts national title winners had a handful of losses and draws going into the tournament, including a couple of quarterfinal NESCAC tourney losses. A loss for Tufts these days, along with Messiah and Amherst, has become a rare event. Bottom line...there may be a little more separation than you think. We'll see. And I agree about Emory.
RPI after grabbing some attention finally drew last night with Western New England who probably is decent, but still, not a great result. Engineers gave up a 90th minute goal to WNE. I see Vassar is lurking and curious if anyone has an insight on the Brewers.
Wesleyan got a big 1-0 win over Coast Guard. I could be wrong or maybe just finally accepting how strong the NESCAC is top to bottom, but NESCAC seems stronger with more parity than even with Tufts and Amherst still favorites and the emergent Conn Coll.
MIT is another team I'm watching. They gave Tufts a go and get Brandeis tonight.
Other key games tonight are Otterbein at Marietta, Mt Union at JCU, Lynchburg at Roanoke, C-M-S at Pomona-Pitzer, Carthage at Chicago, and of course North Park at Wheaton.
I often wonder about the psychological side talked about here. I personally remember the first run feeling like no one expects anything and we have nothing to lose. We played so loose and care free. I think in subsequent years after having won I felt a little bit more pressure but that also may speak to more to the difference in mentality between freshmen and senior years in general.
My breakdown on this has always been that there are 20-25 teams that can win a national championship if everything goes right. I think the first Tufts teams fell more into that bracket where we avoided most major injuries and got some bounces here and there. Then there are 4-5 teams who can weather a whole bunch of adversity and still pull it off. Obviously, things usually don't all come together, so those teams that are talented enough to not have it all go to plan and still win are much more likely to do so.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 06, 2021, 09:56:05 AM
I often wonder about the psychological side talked about here. I personally remember the first run feeling like no one expects anything and we have nothing to lose. We played so loose and care free. I think in subsequent years after having won I felt a little bit more pressure but that also may speak to more to the difference in mentality between freshmen and senior years in general.
Very much agree. That first one imo was as talented or more so than the next three, but it did seem a surprise at the time. And you may have felt more pressure later but now there is almost a sense of inevitability with Tufts, Messiah, Amherst that I think works very much in your favor. I have no doubt that the psychology of it all is HUGE, both internally for those programs and externally with opponents.
And it's the psychological advantage that W&L doesn't have....and that's why you have to break through and then all that changes.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 06, 2021, 10:02:26 AM
And it's the psychological advantage that W&L doesn't have....and that's why you have to break through and then all that changes.
Which is what I was getting at. And I think being #1 in the polls carries it's own weight for a team not used to it. To carry that weight much of the season, possibly into the tournament, without that experience... it's a psychological challenge. Is it a deal breaker? Of course not. But it can be an issue.
I'm fascinated to see how W&L does. So far they have carried it extremely well. But, looking at their schedule, they hit a string of games that they should win comfortably between now and Roanoke on 10/20. At Ferrum (2-6), at H-SC (4-3-1), home for Shenandoah (6-5), at EMU (0-10), obviously H-SC and Shenandoah aren't bad teams, but for a top 10 let alone #1 team in the country... they shouldn't be the hardest challenge. And this type of run is where it can be a challenge to maintain intensity.
Coach Singleton is excellent and I have great faith in him and what he has done with the program, so I have faith that he knows a way to keep heads on straight and focused. I'm super excited about, and especially FOR, these players. I'm hoping this is their breakthrough season. All that said... I'm so curious as well. That "next level", in this case the last level, is a huge step to make.
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 06, 2021, 09:11:41 AM
With so many games being available via stream I have watched (literally) almost every top team. I've also caught a bunch of teams at the top of their conference tables to get a sense for what each of the leagues are like. Watching so much D3 soccer has been really interesting and fun. That said, here's what I've seen thus far. There is a ton of parity across the country. I don't see it as the top x number of teams have separated themselves. In fact, I think the championship is completely wide open. I just haven't seen a team that has it all yet. Looking back at those Tufts teams that won under Shapiro they were amazing offensively and defensively with great GK play. I just haven't seen that complete team yet. Not from Tufts, Amherst, NYU, W&L, Messiah, etc. A team to keep an eye on - Emory. Their level of play over the course of the season has improved significantly...but they need to go through a very tough UAA slate. We'll see. Bottom line. This thing is wide open.
The psychology of the perception of inevitability really is fascinating...and what portion of that is anticipation of an event and what portion is a mirage that grows in hindsight after the event.
I just did a little research and was stunned to find that in the final D3soccer poll (speaking of polls and poll psychology) before the 2016 tournament Tufts not only wasn't ranked but wasn't even in the RV category. They had been in RV the week before in Week 9 and at #16 in Week 8.
Tufts entered the 2016 tournament with a not so intimidating 10-5-2 record after I believe a quarterfinal NESCAC loss and sweating out even getting a bid. They didn't host a pod and in fact were on the road at Rowan who was significantly favored with a record of 17-2-1 and a D3soccer ranking at #8. Chicago was #1, followed by Messiah, Amherst and Trinity. Kenyon was #5. UMass-B was #10 and Haverford was #15. So in just Tufts' 2016 quadrant there were at least five teams ranked above them [changed from five to four and back to five upon seeing Springfield at #18 who Tufts beat 1st round] and yet I'm sure Rowan wasn't thrilled that they likely would be getting Tufts in the 2nd round. Tufts eked out a 1-0 win, a series of unlikely events led to them hosting and playing a UMass-B team that was missing 2-3 of their best players (including their huge, talented striker) on red cards from the Haverford debacle and then an Elite 8 game with Kenyon to redeem a narrow, last minute loss to Kenyon the prior year. I was at that game and I can vouch that the Tufts crowd definitely provided a boost for the Jumbos. A minute before Majumder ended it in the 109th minute, I watched Kenyon's Brice Koval (whose brother played at Conn Coll) the minute before that miss wide right by a foot or two from about 5-6 yards out. But once Tufts reached the Final 4 the conclusion seemed pretty inevitable and in hindsight one can fall into thinking that it was Tufts' to lose all along.
That 2016 Week 10 poll is linked below. Again,
Tufts wasn't even in RV. Some of the names in RV at the time? How about PS-Behrend, Oberlin, Hanover, Geneva, Morrisville St.
https://d3soccer.com/top25/men/2016/week10
Quote from: jknezek on October 06, 2021, 10:39:46 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 06, 2021, 10:02:26 AM
And it's the psychological advantage that W&L doesn't have....and that's why you have to break through and then all that changes.
Which is what I was getting at. And I think being #1 in the polls carries it's own weight for a team not used to it. To carry that weight much of the season, possibly into the tournament, without that experience... it's a psychological challenge. Is it a deal breaker? Of course not. But it can be an issue.
I'm fascinated to see how W&L does. So far they have carried it extremely well. But, looking at their schedule, they hit a string of games that they should win comfortably between now and Roanoke on 10/20. At Ferrum (2-6), at H-SC (4-3-1), home for Shenandoah (6-5), at EMU (0-10), obviously H-SC and Shenandoah aren't bad teams, but for a top 10 let alone #1 team in the country... they shouldn't be the hardest challenge. And this type of run is where it can be a challenge to maintain intensity.
Coach Singleton is excellent and I have great faith in him and what he has done with the program, so I have faith that he knows a way to keep heads on straight and focused. I'm super excited about, and especially FOR, these players. I'm hoping this is their breakthrough season. All that said... I'm so curious as well. That "next level", in this case the last level, is a huge step to make.
Totally agree and get it. Kenyon was ranked #2 most of 2014 and #1 for at least 4-5 weeks in 2015.
I'm confident about Singleton as well.
That Tufts team was really odd and I think in most people's opinion the weakest of the four winners. Started 0-2-1 and then figured some things out. That team was incredible defensively and could grind games out but just didn't have it going forward compared to other groups. That manifested in the team winning every "big" game all year including 3-0 against Amherst but struggling mightily against teams that sat back and defended, hence back to back losses to Bowdoin in the last week + nescac tourney. Luckily teams in the tournament usually try to come out and play versus packing it in which played into that team's hands.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 06, 2021, 09:59:25 AM
My breakdown on this has always been that there are 20-25 teams that can win a national championship if everything goes right. I think the first Tufts teams fell more into that bracket where we avoided most major injuries and got some bounces here and there. Then there are 4-5 teams who can weather a whole bunch of adversity and still pull it off. Obviously, things usually don't all come together, so those teams that are talented enough to not have it all go to plan and still win are much more likely to do so.
Couldn't agree more @D4_Pace. After having watched close to 150 games of all kinds, I think the top 5, at least in my book, have all of the elements to win it. Even when some of those things work against them. Good teams find ways to win, and they are good teams.
The rest of at least my Top 20, have to play lights out in order to make it to the 1/4s. If for whatever reason they are not playing their best brand of soccer, they run the increasing risk of losing. And when you get to the Hilary Step on the way to the Summit, there is no room for error for these teams. That's the hard part.
Of course, this is soccer and this is theory. This goes out the window when the whistle blows.
Lots of talk on here referencing Tufts teams of the past. I'm a Tufts grad and have watched the program closely (obviously not as close as those that played there). That said, it can't be understated the impact Shapiro had on winning those games. The dude is a master. Now with Dezotell I believe the psychology completely changes. He has a lot to live up to and Tufts gets everyone's best shot.
Which leads me to my next question. How much do the coaches impact which teams to keep an eye on. I love Singleton, Appleby, Serpone but don't really know much about the majority of coaches.
I'm also struck by how many injuries these teams deal with, placing a huge emphasis on depth and luck (hate to say it). Again, I was struck by how many players Shapiro played regardless of the game or situation.
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 06, 2021, 11:59:00 AM
Which leads me to my next question. How much do the coaches impact which teams to keep an eye on. I love Singleton, Appleby, Serpone but don't really know much about the majority of coaches.
I'm also struck by how many injuries these teams deal with, placing a huge emphasis on depth and luck (hate to say it). Again, I was struck by how many players Shapiro played regardless of the game or situation.
Coaches matter big time. Recruiting especially.
Injuries.... most teams will play 20 games in roughly 9 weeks before the NCAA tournament. There is no time to recover from a little nick. They just get worse as you try and play through. For a modest injury like an ankle sprain or a solid concussion, if you lose 2 weeks of practice, then a week to try and get fitness back, it's 1/3 of the season. For a significant injury like a minor pulled hamstring you lose 3 weeks of practice and a week and a half to get fitness back it's half the season. For a major injury you can be done for the season real easy. It doesn't even take a blown acl, just something that's going to take 4 or 5 weeks off, plus 2 or 3 weeks to regain real fitness.
The schedule is so compressed because it needs to fit into one semester that injuries are brutal. Teams need to have depth or be real lucky.
Interesting about the Shapiro angle. I've thought about how to ask D4 about that, and no doubt D4 is gonna be 100% behind Dezotell.
This feels a little like the Belichick-Brady question.
In some ways the Tufts team this year feels like it's still Shapiro's to some degree given that he recruited most of the players and coached a large number of them. By the time Shapiro departed he, the alums like D4, and current players built a strong culture with super-high expectations that I would think have some staying power. And given the investment in the Tufts program it's hard to believe they would hire someone who they didn't think could keep Tufts prosperous. But as you say, Shapiro is special and obviously a real loss. As long as Tufts is viewed as the or a premier program, and given the popularity of the school which combines advantages of NESCAC and UAA type institutions, the recruiting should remain strong at least near term.
Shapiro actually lost a fair number of games. He just was mostly unbeatable in the tournament. Iirc Tufts was ousted in PKs or a late goal by Vassar in 2012 or 2013, the last minute loss in Gambier, and an Elite 8 OT loss to Brandeis. That's it. 4 titles in such a short span (without the name Messiah) seems highly improbable, so yeah, he's good.
And pretty sure Tufts has been getting everyone's best shot for a few years now.
Can someone please post the dates the NCAA will release the NCAA Division III regional rankings? I've got the USC rankings.
Quote from: CC United on October 06, 2021, 02:16:14 PM
Can someone please post the dates the NCAA will release the NCAA Division III regional rankings? I've got the USC rankings.
The NCAA DIII Men's and Women's Soccer Committees will release regional rankings for all 10 regions of DIII on the following dates:
1.) Wednesday, October 20, 2021 (two weeks from CC United's post today)
2.) Wednesday, October 27, 2021
3.) Wednesday, November 3, 2021-- Teams in the third week regional rankings will count as ranked teams for selection purposes, along with any new teams appearing in the fourth and final regional rankings used on Selection Day.
4.) Selection Day-- Monday, November 8, 2021
Men's soccer is a 64 team field this year, with 43 teams getting in through automatic qualification (Pool A), no teams getting in through Pool B, and 21 teams getting in through Pool C at-large picks.
Women's soccer is also a 64 team field, with 44 teams getting in through automatic qualification (Pool A), no teams getting in through Pool B, and 20 teams getting in through Pool C at-large picks.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 05, 2021, 09:46:21 PM
I don't know how I got into advocating for Trinity a bit, but even if you think their pods are soft, they often end up getting screwed to a degree like ending up in Amherst and Medford in back to back years, and especially for the second where most would have said Trinity deserved to host but the NCAA didn't want to fly 3 teams, 2 from Boston area, to San Antonio. Kenyon's had become infected with some fungus and couldn't host, and the obvious and only choice became Medford.
I think there's a bit of both. Trinity gets higher rankings because they're not located in an area with a plethora of strong competition and end up with gaudy records, but OMG they get screwed out of hosting in the later rounds
so often to save the NCAA money. It's a common problem the school (and really any school in many team sports in either this part of the country or the West region) faces frequently and it gets really, really old to almost never have the opportunity to play in front of your home crowd in later rounds when you have otherwise earned the right to host.
And with what's going on in the NCAA you wonder if there will be any money to pay for any part of D3, let alone the travel for championships, so even that experience may be something we reminisce about and miss before long.
And speaking of NESCAC, here we go....Hamilton 0-6 in conference knocks off D3soccer #7 Oneonta St 2-1 in OT. Stats look even.
W&L beats Ferrum 5-1. The only noticeable thing about the game was Ferrum scored on their only shot. Not their only shot on goal, their only shot period. 1 corner kick, 1 shot, 1 goal.
I thought W&L were a little too sleepy the first half.
North Park won the annual rivalry game at Wheaton, 3-1. Wheaton got an early goal off of a PK after an NPU handball in the box -- and it turned out to be the lone shot on goal Wheaton had all night. Credit to Wheaton for staying up one through to halftime despite the Vikings having the run of play, but North Park finally broke through with three tallies in the second stanza.
Chicago edged reeling Carthage, 1-0, at Stagg Field. I'll bet that Maroons fans are breathing a sigh of relief that disaster didn't befall the boys from the Midway in the final minutes, as had been Chicago's m.o. of late.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 06, 2021, 10:45:00 PM
Chicago edged reeling Carthage, 1-0, at Stagg Field. I'll bet that Maroons fans are breathing a sigh of relief that disaster didn't befall the boys from the Midway in the final minutes, as had been Chicago's m.o. of late.
Sigh of relief is right. Shoulda been 3-0 easily. The missed PK was rough and then a sitter empty net opportunity was saved off the line by a defender. But I'm sure Domin will spin it to say something ridiculous even though they were thoroughly outplayed all night.
Man, when's the last time that a Steve Domin Carthage team was goose-egged three straight games? Inquiring minds want to know.
PN RE: Fan poll #2
My top 10 for this week's poll....
1 Washington & Lee
2 Messiah
3 Tufts
4 Amherst
5 OWU
6 NYU
7 Trinity
8 Emory
9 Oneonta St
10 Johns Hopkins
For whatever reasons I felt more squeezed this week. I knew I would be dropping Midd, Calvin, Rochester, (and Hope who was in my first top 20 but got edged out in the group poll) significantly, but I initially expected the first three of those to squeeze into the back end of my top 20. Much tougher than a top 25 (obviously). At any rate all four of those dropped out of my top 20 while suspecting that at least 2 or 3 will re-enter down the road.
My new additions were F&M at #12, RPI at #14, Wash U at #18, and Conn Coll at #19. I have Otterbein clinging to the #20 spot.
The four divergences this week compared to the full voter outcome are Midd, Calvin, and Rochester dropping out and my vote of RPI at #14 while RPI only makes the RV category in the group poll. The other two divergences happened both weeks, as I have had St. Olaf and Pac Lutheran in (and this week have St Olaf at #15 and Pac Luth at #17). I'm feeling even more confident about putting the Oles and Lutes in, so we'll see.
Below is where I informally had another group of teams, some of whom were strongly considered for one of the last few top 20 spots.
21 Rowan
22 Midd
23 Calvin
24 Rochester
25 Kenyon
26 Redlands
27 North Central
28 North Park
29 Hope
30 Wheaton (Ill)
31 UWW
32 MIT
33 GAC
I'm ambivalent about a few teams that I know are very good like Chicago and JCU (both with big wins last night) but imo they have work to do to warrant a ranking. I'm also unsettled on North Central who I haven't had in the top 20 in either of the first two polls, so that may be a big error. UWW has already stumbled this week after I considered placing them higher. MIT won against Brandeis last night in a very tight game and that is a team I suggest keeping an eye on.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 07, 2021, 12:09:20 AM
Man, when's the last time that a Steve Domin Carthage team was goose-egged three straight games? Inquiring minds want to know.
October 2014. A couple of back-to-back goose eggs since then, but 2014 for a triple.
That's a pretty healthy stretch of avoiding such prolonged offensive malaise. By contrast, among the two other perennial CCIW powers, Wheaton's last three-goose-eggs streak came in 2016 and North Park's came in 2009. NPU's streak included a scoreless tie against Elmhurst in the middle of those three games, however; the last time that the Vikings lost three straight by shutout was 1999, which was not coincidentally North Park's most recent losing season.
Wheaton's goose-egg streak in 2016 started with a scoreless tie against Kalamazoo, so to find the last three goose eggs Wheaton has posted in a row that were all losses you have to go clear back to 1987, when the Orange and Blue were shut out five straight times, the first in a scoreless tie and the next four via losses. The next season the CCIW made men's soccer an official sport, and the plethora of brand-new and/or sorely neglected men's soccer programs among CCIW schools in that era guaranteed that Wheaton would never starve for goals for very long.
Carthage wasn't exactly rockin' it at the offensive end prior to this current streak, either. The Firebirds had scored only one goal in each of their three games prior to this goose-egg streak, including a 1-1 tie vs. Millikin (1-8-2) and a 1-0 win over Lake Forest (3-9-1).
I was going to post this is in the NESCAC thread and realized a few might have fun adding to this trivia question...
I hadn't realized that Middlebury sort of has become a "cradle of coaches" in NESCAC, with three Middlebury grads as HCs...Tufts, Midd, and Bowdoin...and course the very recent 4th was Shapiro.
I know there are a bunch of coaches with Messiah ancestry, and I can think of three from OWU off the top of my head (St Olaf, Denison, Springfield).
I would guess there are other schools who have produced a few.
Yeah interesting in that the NESCAC had two legendary coaches that were contemporaries in Russo and Seward. Seward mentored those 4 and deserves a lot of the credit for their careers. On the other hand I don't believe there are any current Williams alums coaching in the NESCAC after Sullivan's unceremonious departure. Mr. Right you would be the expert on this subject, do you know of any factors that might explain the difference?
D4, how are you managing to resist those Tufts program/Shapiro/Dezotell questions/comments from yesterday? I'm sure you have a ton to say, but no worries if that puts you in a bad spot.
While on the subject of Shapiro. Is anyone else of the opinion (like I am) that the guy is going to have a huge career? My prediction - finds his way to MLS and/or the national team. I played hoops at Tufts in the 90's and my son was recruited by Shapiro but didn't go (at Carnegie Mellon). But I watched a ton of Tufts soccer and haven't seen a coach organize a team offensively as good as him...not even close.
OK, come clean. You're either Joe Braun, Sterling Weatherbie, one of the Halliday brothers, or Josh's agent. Just joking.
Phenomenal coach who fully earned the very high praise he gets routinely on this site, but can we let him win a couple of Ivy League titles before we put him in the MLS or leading the national team? He's already had (and having) a great career.
I've watched a ton of Tufts soccer myself both live and via streaming and always thought of Tufts as extremely organized, well-balanced, able to make adjustments, and with some firepower, but not necessarily as an offensive juggernaut. Martin, Brandt, McCarty, Souders, etc have a history of implementing some pretty good offensive systems as well. Shapiro over the last few years also arguably had the most talent to work with than any coach in D3 (which certainly is a credit to him from a recruiting ability perspective).
Why wait until he's done it to predict it. I've watched a ton of soccer and his teams look different. Granted, your frame of reference is so much more rich and informed than mine. That said, I stand by my viewpoint.
Shapiro is certainly on the right trajectory. But if any college coach deserves a big time shot, it's Dave Brandt. Guy's been a winner everywhere - at all levels.
Edit to add - not that he wants it and I don't see him leaving Hope anytime soon.
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 07, 2021, 02:57:31 PM
Why wait until he's done it to predict it. I've watched a ton of soccer and his teams look different. Granted, your frame of reference is so much more rich and informed than mine. That said, I stand by my viewpoint.
It's going to be hard to make that jump. He's roughly 45 now. He's going to need to do something at the D1 level in the next 5 years to gain a bigger D1 job in a hurry, where he can make a real splash, or he's going to need to go be on an MLS staff before he turns 50 so he has a few years to earn an MLS rep. And hiring first time 60 year old head coaches isn't really an MLS MO because there are so many coaches, globally, it's just not needed.
Then you look at the fact that college coaches and professionals rarely work out. Hello Urban Meyer! Or Caleb Porter if you prefer.
Coaching college students, and coaching professionals, is a totally different thing. College coaches, especially at the D1 level in charge of scholarships, can be little Napoleans (a little less with the transfer portal, but still...) At the pro level, you are the most easily interchanged part. The players are basically in charge. At the college level, you are the only part that doesn't move on after 4 or 5 years, so you are the one with all the power.
I doubt he makes an MLS head coaching job. He's just too late to the party. If that's what he wanted to do, he should have found an MLS assistant position rather than the Harvard job.
That being said, I could easily see him moving on to a big-time D1 program in a few years. Way more likely than MLS in my opinion.
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 07, 2021, 02:57:31 PM
Why wait until he's done it to predict it. I've watched a ton of soccer and his teams look different. Granted, your frame of reference is so much more rich and informed than mine. That said, I stand by my viewpoint.
You clearly don't think my frame of reference is more informed, and I have no idea whether it is or not. There are plenty of folks here who have far more knowledge than I do...like by far. My soccer coaching experience topped out at U12 town soccer. I wasn't a soccer player. I played tennis at Davidson. I'm a big college and pro basketball fan. My son wasn't recruited by Shapiro (or really anyone) and played at Kenyon. I've just hung out on this site for a long time. You keep saying you went to Tufts and played basketball and watched a ton of Tufts soccer. OK. A lot of people here have seen a ton of Tufts soccer...and a ton of soccer in general. Can you say more about Tufts' offensive prowess under Shapiro's direction? Did you see any of their losses, or many of the 1-0, 1-1, 2-1 games?
And I'm gonna say no to MLS and the national team.
Tufts was a bit ahead of the curve streaming games. They have a service called JumboCast that streams games. I've watched a ton of Tufts hoops as well. My Tufts basketball coach who I have an excellent relationship with "partnered up" with the soccer program (players would work the clock, etc.) and from the moment he was hired told me to pay attention to Josh (knowing my connection to Tufts and my son playing soccer). That got me started watching their games. I am not qualified to offer too deep of an opinion on Shapiro. The folks on this site with real soccer knowledge would probably laugh. And the points made earlier about his age, etc. are really good ones. I happen to be a big fan. I know what I don't know and I want to stay in my lane. I do have an opinion however. Regardless of win or lose, what I noticed from watching the Tufts team is players understand their role and most likely fit the role. Wingers were fast, able to take on defenders 1v1 really well, etc. and many, many more times in a game than the opponent would be organized in the offensive third with a coordinated set of runs creating space for the person on the ball and options to pass to to goal. Again, not very technical but my best recollection.
Agree 100% with everything you wrote. I think virtually everyone here is extremely impressed with Shapiro, and 4 national titles in six years speaks for itself.
Wait... I'm not a flamethrower or anything, but a guy that has won 2 MLS Cups is considered a failure at the pro level? (ETA - Sorry, talking about Caleb Porter, if not clear.) He was very seriously considered for the NT job on at least two occasions.
I take the overall point, it's very difficult to make that transition. I just don't CP is a very good poster child. You already trotted out a great one, but Nick Saban is probably the very best example in the CFB-->NFL universe.
I would also trot at Bruce Arena as a very strong counter to this argument. Just to continue to e contrary. :D
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 07, 2021, 04:06:56 PM
Wait... I'm not a flamethrower or anything, but a guy that has won 2 MLS Cups is considered a failure at the pro level? (ETA - Sorry, talking about Caleb Porter, if not clear.) He was very seriously considered for the NT job on at least two occasions.
I take the overall point, it's very difficult to make that transition. I just don't CP is a very good poster child. You already trotted out a great one, but Nick Saban is probably the very best example in the CFB-->NFL universe.
I would also trot at Bruce Arena as a very strong counter to this argument. Just to continue to e contrary. :D
CP also coached Akron when it was THE premier program in the country. I remember his team with Darlington Nagby, Teal Bunbury, Perry Kitchen, Kofi Sarkodie, etc and a bunch of other top 25 recruits that was so good Scottie Caldwell (one of Massachusetts' best players ever this side of Sam and Kristie Mewis) couldn't crack the starting line-up but I think scored in the national final game as a soph when Akron won it all after getting to the final the year before.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 07, 2021, 04:20:26 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 07, 2021, 04:06:56 PM
Wait... I'm not a flamethrower or anything, but a guy that has won 2 MLS Cups is considered a failure at the pro level? (ETA - Sorry, talking about Caleb Porter, if not clear.) He was very seriously considered for the NT job on at least two occasions.
I take the overall point, it's very difficult to make that transition. I just don't CP is a very good poster child. You already trotted out a great one, but Nick Saban is probably the very best example in the CFB-->NFL universe.
I would also trot at Bruce Arena as a very strong counter to this argument. Just to continue to e contrary. :D
CP also coached Akron when it was THE premier program in the country. I remember his team with Darlington Nagby, Teal Bunbury, Perry Kitchen, Kofi Sarkodie, etc and a bunch of other top 25 recruits that was so good Scottie Caldwell (one of Massachusetts' best players ever this side of Sam and Kristie Mewis) couldn't crack the starting line-up but I think scored in the national final game as a soph when Akron won it all after getting to the final the year before.
By far one of my most favorite D1 teams of all time. Certainly, put Porter on my radar that first NT run... Team played so well going forward... Really kind of uncommon for that level, as we know.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 07, 2021, 04:06:56 PM
Wait... I'm not a flamethrower or anything, but a guy that has won 2 MLS Cups is considered a failure at the pro level? (ETA - Sorry, talking about Caleb Porter, if not clear.) He was very seriously considered for the NT job on at least two occasions.
I take the overall point, it's very difficult to make that transition. I just don't CP is a very good poster child. You already trotted out a great one, but Nick Saban is probably the very best example in the CFB-->NFL universe.
I would also trot at Bruce Arena as a very strong counter to this argument. Just to continue to e contrary. :D
Yeah. You got me on Porter. I don't know what I was thinking. I'll just chalk that up to being an idiot.
Yup, for a few years at least the "Messiah of D1." And that had to be 95% about CP. Caldwell was/is a super-smart kid who could have gone to Harvard, Duke, UNC, UVA, Stanford, UCLA or wherever, and I remember how odd it seemed when he committed to Akron.
Caldwell's older brother Keith was All-Ivy at Brown (when Brown was nationally relevant and as teammate of Larentowicz) and had a cup of coffee with MLS, and his older sister Amy was a Massachusetts high school legend who famously opted to play in a high school state final instead of making a national camp or call-up or whatever for U17 or U20. She had a good but not great college career at BC and was eclipsed at BC by fellow club player Kristie Mewis.
RE: the age angle...CP is 46 now and so was in his early to mid 30s when he had that run at Akron...and of course was a product of one of the top D1 programs historically at Indiana.
This is a lot to wade into and I don't even know where to start. I think first there is no more than a 1% chance coach Shapiro ever ends up with a MLS let alone national team gig. I think the main factor that has been left out of this conversation is the human aspect. He's got kids and a family that would have to be dragged around the country a few different time in order to make that happen. I think one of the reasons the Harvard gig was so appealing was that he didn't even have to hire movers.
Now if that reality didn't exist could he do it? who knows. The path would be something like the current coach at Notre Dame who dominated at Dartmouth. The problem is even once you make it to a top 10 d1 school like notre dame the jump to the MLS is huge and unfortunately is still largely based on playing experience and the old boy network.
I think the strength of our teams was more two-way play then blowing teams away offensively. I think his biggest strength was creating a culture where the high end offensive guys bought into doing the defensive work. Thats what separated us from other final four teams that had guys who put up 15-20 goals a season but never crossed back into their own half.
Quote from: jknezek on October 07, 2021, 04:32:48 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 07, 2021, 04:06:56 PM
Wait... I'm not a flamethrower or anything, but a guy that has won 2 MLS Cups is considered a failure at the pro level? (ETA - Sorry, talking about Caleb Porter, if not clear.) He was very seriously considered for the NT job on at least two occasions.
I take the overall point, it's very difficult to make that transition. I just don't CP is a very good poster child. You already trotted out a great one, but Nick Saban is probably the very best example in the CFB-->NFL universe.
I would also trot at Bruce Arena as a very strong counter to this argument. Just to continue to e contrary. :D
Yeah. You got me on Porter. I don't know what I was thinking. I'll just chalk that up to being an idiot.
:D Your body of work suggests otherwise. Also, Porter has moved around a bit -- And not of his own volition a couple of times. He's a very good MLS coach, but he certainly could've put a negative vibe in your head with a few of his lackluster seasons.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 07, 2021, 05:48:39 PM
I think the strength of our teams was more two-way play then blowing teams away offensively. I think his biggest strength was creating a culture where the high end offensive guys bought into doing the defensive work. Thats what separated us from other final four teams that had guys who put up 15-20 goals a season but never crossed back into their own half.
The above rang true and for some reason caught my attention and a distant memory jumped into my head, and well....I'm already on thin ice and know I need to get myself in a really nice rehab spa in Arizona for my D3soccer.com addiction (and seriously, folks, I thought I was done with the Covid year providing a great off-ramp opportunity), but what the heck...
D4, not asking you to comment or any other Tufts person, but obviously feel free if so inclined.
First, as backdrop on the Shapiro era, the last year of the Ferrigno era was 2010 and Tufts was 5-8-2. As was noted a couple or so weeks ago, another guy was hired, Carl Junot, who before actually starting took the job at Harvard (and lost that job pretty quickly and now is in some admin role at the Melbourne Grammar School in Australia). In comes Shapiro in 2011 and Tufts has a much improved 9-4-2 season but no NCAA tourney bid. Then in 2012 (I had thought it was 2013 but this imo makes the story more interesting) Tufts goes 9-4-4, making the tournament but exiting 1st round to Vassar in pod played at Brandeis. I was sort of right about how that ended. Tufts dominated the stats, but instead of a PK shootout lost when Vassar got a PK in the 102nd minute. Next, with arguably a better team in 2013, Tufts did NOT make the tournament, finishing with a rather pedestrian 8-5-2 record. The breakthrough onto a big national stage occurred in 2014, but it was hard to see coming. The Jumbos had lost 2-0 to Brandeis earlier in the year (a game I saw live because I was interested in seeing a couple of Brandeis players who had played club with my kid). After draws with MIT and Amherst, Tufts went on a run of Ws until getting bounced in the NESCAC quarters by Conn Coll. As I think has been acknowledged before, Tufts was sitting at 10-2-4 and hoping for but unsure of a NCAA bid. They got it but the pod host was actually Wheaton (MA) so Tufts at that point was not projected to get past Dickinson and Wheaton. They handled both with relative ease, took care of Muhlenberg, and then of course the infamous game with Messiah. In the national semis, a certain frosh right back (and this is why I always get confused and think he was a left back) scored improbably inside the first 2 minutes with a left-footed strike and from there OWU was never really in the game. A fellow named Gus Santos of Framingham, MA fame notched two more goals for a 3-0 Tufts win. The Jumbos went on to defeat a very good Wheaton (Ill) team 4-2 in a tilt that had 3 PKs (2 for Tufts, 1 for Wheaton). [As a side note, how many times has a team beaten both Wheatons in the same tournament???] Anyway, as far as I recall, no one (not even Tufts) was predicting a Tufts national title or even a long run. That interests me in terms of the psychology question...how a program goes from improbable to feeling almost inevitable.
So, back to the awakened distant memory...I can't recall if this was 2012 or 2013 (and it's quite possible I'm just making this up beyond the fact that some here actually discussed this on the site at the time), or could even have been 2014 early in the season, but something happened (or some thought) with the aforementioned Santos, one of the key Tufts offensive players along with Hoppenot, where Santos wasn't started or was benched or something like that. I think there was a thought that that had something to do with the creative, offensively dangerous guys playing defense (see D4 in post above). So what I'm wondering is if that was a seminal dynamic or some kind of reckoning when it became clear that the players were going to do what Shapiro wanted or not play. I can't recall if this involved one game or several, but Santos returned, apparently was on board...and so my question is whether there is anything to this that Shapiro drew a red line that could have backfired but didn't....and the rest is history. Remember, made tourney in 2012, fell short with no bid in 2013, and then the season no one saw coming that ended with lifting a trophy (and now there's four).
Paul your Tufts knowledge and memory rivals mine and I was there for most of it. The 2012 team was solid and made the tournament almost entirely on the back of the sophomore and freshmen classes that would win the title in 2014. The 2013 team had a disappointing season for a myriad of reasons and took a step back. The 2014 team was definitely better than their overall record as demonstrated by the fact they went undefeated in the Nescac regular season. The only two loses were the aforementioned 2-0 at a top 5 Brandeis team that could have gone either way until I got burned and we conceded with about 5 minutes left and a Nescac quarterfinal defeat at home to Conn College which is as much a Tufts tradition as any. We weren't sure about our bid to the tournament largely out of naivety and unfamiliarity with the process and in hindsight we were not one of the last teams off the board. That being said once we were in the attitude was lets get through this weekend so we can extend our season by one more week. After we beat Wheaton (MA) we literally chanted "one more week of practice" because thats how much the group liked being together and didn't want it to end.
When the bracket was made no one expected to beat Messiah. In preseason we watched their youtube clips and talked about how cool it would be to have the chance to play them and see what it was like. We beat Muhlenberg in a pretty comfortable game, although shoutout to the Muhlenberg student section which was hilarious. Coming off of that I think the attitude had changed and everyone truly believed that in one game we could beat Messiah. A ton of factors played into it actually happening, but if anyone had some residual doubts scoring 45 seconds in erased them all. Then the mentality was different. After beating Messiah I don't think the program has expected to lose a game since.
(Good call on the Muhles student section. I remember them behind my goal with very creative/hilarious barbs during a MAC playoff game back in the day.)
Correction...I botched the post above.
Ferrigno's last year actually was 2009...2-10-2 (0-8-1).
As a well-known poster here often has mused, Ferrigno left Shapiro a couple of cones, a sack of balls, and a broken Keurig machine.
So Shapiro's first season was in 2010 and 5-8-2 (3-4-2). Tufts made the tournament and lost that first round game to Vassar in 2012 in his 3rd year at the helm, missed in 2013, and then made again in 2014 and every year since with 4 titles.
I can't find a box score anywhere that reflects this so perhaps a very mild case of dementia hallucinosis, but I also recall a Tufts player suspension for a punch or vicious elbow. I thought it was inside the 18 versus Bowdoin, but again, I can't find evidence, and so I can't place what year that was or if that had any significance in terms of Shapiro's influence over the program or not.
RE: Tufts-Brandeis 2014...Interesting that I was there to watch Brandeis, at a grass field I think somewhere in Boston that was Tufts' home field at the time (or part-time there and part-time at Bello?). Anyway, I recall that Tufts did have a rep at that time of being quite talented (and maybe underachieving) and in some ways Tufts looked like the better team. I recall Kayne being excellent and dangerous...recall a clever pass into space that almost put Majumder 1v1 with Woodhouse? Woodside? I recall Connor Brown and Robbie Lynch (one of the kids I knew along with Savonen) going at it down the right side. I think #10 for Brandeis got the 2nd goal on a header for Brandeis to close the deal. But there was definitely a sense that Tufts was gonna be a handful. Viera maybe? Kid with a headband?
My vote for one of the most underrated Tufts players ever? Monil Patel at left back. He probably hit the corner that Majumder headed in in Gambier in 2015, but he was an impressive-looking, rangy, smooth left back.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:42:51 AM
RE: Tufts-Brandeis 2014...Interesting that I was there to watch Brandeis, at a grass field I think somewhere in Boston that was Tufts' home field at the time (or part-time there and part-time at Bello?). Anyway, I recall that Tufts did have a rep at that time of being quite talented (and maybe underachieving) and in some ways Tufts looked like the better team. I recall Kayne being excellent and dangerous...recall a clever pass into space that almost put Majumder 1v1 with Woodhouse? Woodside? I recall Connor Brown and Robbie Lynch (one of the kids I knew along with Savonen) going at it down the right side. I think #10 for Brandeis got the 2nd goal on a header for Brandeis to close the deal. But there was definitely a sense that Tufts was gonna be a handful. Viera maybe? Kid with a headband?
Here you go... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rq266q_G5Q
Goals by 4 (Zach Vieira) and 13 (Mike Lynch) https://www.brandeisjudges.com/sports/msoc/2014-15/boxscores/20140920_jr32.xml?tmpl=soxml-monospace-template
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 08, 2021, 09:11:44 AM
(Good call on the Muhles student section. I remember them behind my goal with very creative/hilarious barbs during a MAC playoff game back in the day.)
I played striker against Muhlenberg back in the day. A HS friend and ALL his fraternity brothers sat right behind the end line and were relentless. I believe I gave them "if you can't go Greek go teke" comment a few times.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
I can't find a box score anywhere that reflects this so perhaps a very mild case of dementia hallucinosis, but I also recall a Tufts player suspension for a punch or vicious elbow. I thought it was inside the 18 versus Bowdoin, but again, I can't find evidence, and so I can't place what year that was or if that had any significance in terms of Shapiro's influence over the program or not.
Red card came in 2015 against Nathan Majunder in a 1-0 loss against Bowdoin. Don't think it was in the area, since there is no mention in the play-by-play of a penalty.
https://www.gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/msoc/2015-16/boxscores/20151031_6573.xml?view=plays
Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on October 08, 2021, 11:43:58 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
I can't find a box score anywhere that reflects this so perhaps a very mild case of dementia hallucinosis, but I also recall a Tufts player suspension for a punch or vicious elbow. I thought it was inside the 18 versus Bowdoin, but again, I can't find evidence, and so I can't place what year that was or if that had any significance in terms of Shapiro's influence over the program or not.
Red card came in 2015 against Nathan Majunder in a 1-0 loss against Bowdoin. Don't think it was in the area, since there is no mention in the play-by-play of a penalty.
https://www.gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/msoc/2015-16/boxscores/20151031_6573.xml?view=plays
Thanks for your research. Could have been in the other box instead of offensive box (or is that a PK automatically either way...I'm confusing myself).
Anyway, that may have been another incident. Almost positive the one I'm referring to involved PLK, and vaguely recall being pretty hard on him on this site along with several others.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
Anyway, that may have been another incident. Almost positive the one I'm referring to involved PLK, and vaguely recall being pretty hard on him on this site along with several others.
Peter Lee-Kramer had a re in a 2014 tie against Amherst. Maybe that is it.
Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on October 08, 2021, 11:04:21 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:42:51 AM
RE: Tufts-Brandeis 2014...Interesting that I was there to watch Brandeis, at a grass field I think somewhere in Boston that was Tufts' home field at the time (or part-time there and part-time at Bello?). Anyway, I recall that Tufts did have a rep at that time of being quite talented (and maybe underachieving) and in some ways Tufts looked like the better team. I recall Kayne being excellent and dangerous...recall a clever pass into space that almost put Majumder 1v1 with Woodhouse? Woodside? I recall Connor Brown and Robbie Lynch (one of the kids I knew along with Savonen) going at it down the right side. I think #10 for Brandeis got the 2nd goal on a header for Brandeis to close the deal. But there was definitely a sense that Tufts was gonna be a handful. Viera maybe? Kid with a headband?
Here you go... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rq266q_G5Q
Goals by 4 (Zach Vieira) and 13 (Mike Lynch) https://www.brandeisjudges.com/sports/msoc/2014-15/boxscores/20140920_jr32.xml?tmpl=soxml-monospace-template
Oh gosh....abject humiliation.
The 2014 game was on Brandeis' turf field. That doesn't work.
It was 2015! I was confused because Savonen had graduated same year as my kid in '14 and Robbie Lynch was still playing because of an extra year allowed due to an injury year I think. Blooter will remember the details.
Anyway, 2015 Brandeis won 1-0 at Tufts' Kraft Field in Somerville.....and Vieira scored the GW and at least I can say in 2015 he was #10!
Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on October 08, 2021, 12:00:45 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:24:26 AM
Anyway, that may have been another incident. Almost positive the one I'm referring to involved PLK, and vaguely recall being pretty hard on him on this site along with several others.
Peter Lee-Kramer had a re in a 2014 tie against Amherst. Maybe that is it.
Found it. It was Bowdoin...10/29/14. The ref missed it so he got away without any kind of card. But there was talk about how the Bowdoin player could have been seriously injured and I think a video of the incident got passed around.
And he did NOT play the next 2 games...the QF loss to Conn Coll and the 1st round NCAA game versus Dickinson. He returned for 2nd round game with Wheaton. So possible Shapiro gave him a 2 game suspension OR entirety of NESCAC tournament but of course they lost first game there. Anyway, that jives more with my memory, and an interesting event to happen literally on the cusp of the Tufts tournament run ending in 1st title. Credit to Shapiro here assuming I'm right about a suspension (and/or I guess it's possible the conference got involved?).
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 07, 2021, 09:40:41 PM
After beating Messiah I don't think the program has expected to lose a game since.
This is the tweet. Says everything in one short, sweet sentence.
Looking like a tough go for W&L today so far. First half down at Hampden-Sydney, 20 shots, 10 on goal, no scores. H-SC, no shots.
Quote from: jknezek on October 09, 2021, 01:49:00 PM
Looking like a tough go for W&L today so far. First half down at Hampden-Sydney, 20 shots, 10 on goal, no scores. H-SC, no shots.
And a 2-0 win. 35 shots, 18 on goal. H-SC managed one shot. Taking cate of business is important!
While W&L totally dominated, they also looked sloppy I thought. But maybe I am too hard on them. Watching that game, I am not sure how they would fare against Tufts or Amherst. (There are other good teams besides those two, but I haven't watched them).
Quote from: Another Mom on October 09, 2021, 03:11:22 PM
While W&L totally dominated, they also looked sloppy I thought. But maybe I am too hard on them. Watching that game, I am not sure how they would fare against Tufts or Amherst. (There are other good teams besides those two, but I haven't watched them).
Could be. I didn't watch too much. A bit here and there and then the stat lines. But not all games will be the sharpest. I'd like to see them be a bit more ruthless, something I've said a few times this season. They won't get so many chances against the best of the best, so the conversion rate is an easy thing to pick at. But I don't know if they didn't really get good looks, the H-SC keeper stood on his head, or if they just were wasteful. Or a combination of all of them. It's soccer, odd things happen. A comfortable 2-0 road win over a conference foe that will finish in the middle of the ODAC or better is not something to sniff at!
The Generals are an excellent team, in the midst of what has, so far, been an excellent season. They are obviously capable of earning ODAC hardware and possibly even more, so at this point, I feel very spoiled even wrinkling my nose about a single stat line that didn't end up mattering one bit.
Tough day for the SUNYAC heavyweights.
As I predicted Oneonta goes down for the 2nd game in a row, this time to New Paltz St in OT. Actually didn't predict it publicly but meant to ;). New Paltz quietly is having a season and may be in line for national ranking consideration.
And Cortland goes down to Brockport in OT.
Gutsy draw for Midd against probably best team in the country. Played like 50 min with 10 men, and hard to see on video but looked like harsh call. Midd has very good players and grew into game but whatever reason Tufts will have 6-7 players passing around in the final 3rd for 25-40 secs and get a slew of possible chances. Midd has one or two guys up too isolated and can probably spring them occasionally against slightly weaker teams but they end up going 1 v 4 or 5 and 2 vs 7 against a team like Tufts. Midd needs to figure out how to get more chances for #9 and #23....both very good players and physical enough to play against Tufts-caliber players.
Didn't catch much of Emory-Wash U, but when I did seemed like Emory had more of the play. But that said a draw probably a pretty good result for the Eagles.
Yeah going into the game a draw at Midd after a weird geographical back-to-back on the road isn't the worst result. But being up a man for 50 minutes and not getting the three points is disappointing. I don't think it was a weak red as much as a dumb decision. Raffi is an awesome player and has had a great career there, but he just made a quick misjudgment and paid for it. He clearly kicked the ball out of the goalies hand when he tried to punt it and that is always a yellow card. That being said the response from Midd was very impressive and it was hard to tell they were down a man for large stretches.
I don't think Tufts played particularly well in either game this weekend (being tied with Trinity with 20 minutes to go is unacceptable). That being said there is no better team to see on the schedule after a down weekend than Amherst at home for homecoming. That will instantly boost the motivation levels and ensure an intense week of training. Plus all the washed up bros being in town will make sure to keep them in line.
All in all sitting at 9-0-2 and top of the NESCAC is where you want to be. Now they have to dial in for the toughest stretch of their schedule and roll into the post season.
QuoteWas at the game in person, and Midd had some good chances even after going down a man with 30 minutes left in regulation. Tufts was very lucky to escape with a yellow when Campbell took down Saint-Louis as the last defender. Referee made typical mistake of not looking around prior to the foul, but judging the position of players after the foul had occurred. I think this was a very important psychological result for Midd. They came away pissed that they did not win, and they will be up for a rematch down the road. This game highlighted everything that is wrong with NESCAC officiating:
1. Allowing one coach to whine and question calls all day with no repercussions
2. Allowing some early hard fouls with no cards, followed by trying to get the game under control later
3. Flat out incorrect decision to stop the clock in first OT when both teams had players at the table to sub in and ball went out for a corner kick. Ref stopped clock to allow Tufts to take a set piece that they otherwise would never have gotten off
4. Not visible on video, but when Paoletta got a card for decking Roberts at the end of the second OT, Midd players were asking for a red card (It was not a red, IMO). Tufts #23 gets in the face of Midd GK Grady and pushes him. Midd #25 Nelson runs over, yells get the %*#% off my goalie, and pushes him down. Ref was oblivious to the whole thing and asked AR if he saw anything, to which the reply was "No"
Having seen quite a few NESCAC games, the officiating is simply way too permissive and not at the level it needs to be.
Moved the above from SC's Game Notes thread to here.
Interesting post and I'm sure more than a couple of Tufts supporters would have a very different version.
First, for Midd...agree with much of what you said. Taking another L, even to Tufts, after the prior week, would have been tough. Especially given playing with 10 men for so long I would count the draw as a win which should give the Panthers some confidence going forward. Midd did have a few very good chances, and they forced the new Tufts GK to make a couple of good saves. That said, Tufts was camped out in the Midd final third quite a bit and could have been up 2-0 in the first 25 min. I actually was impressed with Midd once they settled in...one of the few teams that can come close to matching Tufts' size and physicality but imo they need to have more possession and rely less on Reid and St Louis breaking free on a counter.
Your comments regarding Tufts while partisan seem to hint at some truths. Tufts has an arrogance/entitlement that grows on itself and serves them well. In their heart of hearts, many among the Tufts faithful are convinced the Jumbos should have won 6 titles in a row. I suppose they've earned the right to have that kind of attitude, and that's not gonna change until they get knocked off a few times in the tournament. As D4 said so well, Tufts fully expects to win every time out and regardless of the opponent. That's powerful. Messiah has an arrogance/entitlement too that serves the Falcons well, but the vibe of it feels very different. The Falcons while often a team with plenty of size to go along with superior skill and dynamic offensive and team play never give off a bully kind of vibe. I get a sense that Tufts enjoys the rivalry with Amherst partly because they can go toe-to-toe with the Mammoths while relatively speaking being the "good guys." At any rate, Tufts is just as imposing as Amherst or more so. That back line with Paoletta, Clivio, Gibson, and I think Daly, with Aroh in front of them is unyielding and very good. They are going to run up your back and make you feel them nearly every time...few offensive players are going to relish facing them for 90 or more minutes. The #23 you mentioned is like the smallest guy on the Tufts squad but of course that doesn't mean he isn't feisty.
NESCAC teams, even inferior ones, know what to expect when they play Tufts or Amherst, and maybe that's why we see them get knocked off with some frequency in the NESCAC tourney and then go on as they usually do in the NCAA tournament. Therein lies my question for W&L, Hopkins, Chicago, Trinity, etc. Can they raise their physicality soon enough, and effectively enough, without foregoing their own strengths? Are they willing to be as ruthless?
As for Dezotell, who I assume you were referencing, I know little about him but what a spot he is in. First year at Tufts, and basically it's title or bust.
An observation on a team that I feel possesses the physicality and very strong goal keeper play to make a run and get after the top teams in D3. NYU is big, feisty and skilled...and I believe they have one of the best GK's I've seen this year. Going through the UAA schedule here at the end is going to round them into form. A team to keep an eye on for sure.
One of my observations of this Hopkins team is that they have very little bite. They are just a bit too polite out there.
Tim Treinen, Hopkins senior center back, has some bite--perhaps too much. He was red carded earlier in the season and sat out the game they tied vs. Stevenson. He got a yellow card on Saturday vs. Worshington College. They really cannot afford to lose him - he makes the system go. Without him, they look much weaker. The other defenders are solid if not quite as aggressive. They are not running up offensive player's backs much though. One of the problems is that none of them is very big - in a physical game, I can seem them getting out-muscled, especially on corner kicks.
The offense tends to rely on quick passing - very little physicality.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 11, 2021, 01:52:31 PM
One of my observations of this Hopkins team is that they have very little bite. They are just a bit too polite out there.
Totally agree. From the times I have watched they seem much more comfortable when they have the space to move and there is not a lot of clashing for the ball. They hold the ball in the back to get teams to step up and spread out to afford them the space to move. When it has gotten physical you can tell it is very disruptive for them.
Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on October 08, 2021, 11:04:21 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 08, 2021, 09:42:51 AM
RE: Tufts-Brandeis 2014...Interesting that I was there to watch Brandeis, at a grass field I think somewhere in Boston that was Tufts' home field at the time (or part-time there and part-time at Bello?). Anyway, I recall that Tufts did have a rep at that time of being quite talented (and maybe underachieving) and in some ways Tufts looked like the better team. I recall Kayne being excellent and dangerous...recall a clever pass into space that almost put Majumder 1v1 with Woodhouse? Woodside? I recall Connor Brown and Robbie Lynch (one of the kids I knew along with Savonen) going at it down the right side. I think #10 for Brandeis got the 2nd goal on a header for Brandeis to close the deal. But there was definitely a sense that Tufts was gonna be a handful. Viera maybe? Kid with a headband?
Here you go... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rq266q_G5Q
Goals by 4 (Zach Vieira) and 13 (Mike Lynch) https://www.brandeisjudges.com/sports/msoc/2014-15/boxscores/20140920_jr32.xml?tmpl=soxml-monospace-template
Haha....Damn Vieira schooled a wide eyed Frosh RB....
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 07, 2021, 01:20:55 PM
Yeah interesting in that the NESCAC had two legendary coaches that were contemporaries in Russo and Seward. Seward mentored those 4 and deserves a lot of the credit for their careers. On the other hand I don't believe there are any current Williams alums coaching in the NESCAC after Sullivan's unceremonious departure. Mr. Right you would be the expert on this subject, do you know of any factors that might explain the difference?
Good point. Saward has a good amount of
former players coaching. Serpone has a ton of former
assistants coaching. Russo should have made it more of a priority and now Williams Men's Soccer is feeling it. There are no alums to grab the reins right now. I personally think Eric Watson(who was a Williams GK) and former Head Coach at Linfield, SUNY New Paltz, Utica and maybe one more would be the only alum to be able to get an interview. He turned all those programs around, knows the game tactically, would keep the ball on the grass, has College Head Coaching experience etc etc..But he left Coaching about 7 years ago and I think went into Admissions so it would be a long shot. For all I know maybe he wanted to get out of the game but IMO once you get your own program to run it stays in your blood.
I feel like
historically(presently things have probably evened out) for
athletes, Williams and Amherst kids either wanted to be the "big swinging d....", work in the bulge banks, med school, etc. While I think Midd and especially Bates kids were more creative and adventurous with their existence, not afraid to take chances with their lives(only live once I want to be happy type deal)....start-ups, environmental gigs, giving back, climbing mountains, non-profits, teachers, ski bums, coaches etc etc...That is my kind of guy trust me...The type of kid that would look at the corporate world, a corporate desk, a corporate phone, corporate bosses, corporate friends, corporate marriage and want to seriously vomit. I worry about the mental health of some of these non-athletes at Williams, Amherst and Midd. They put unnecessary pressure on themselves and worse get more from their parents. Anyway, my point is I think most of these Williams and Amherst kids and ESPECIALLY their parents would look down on a profession like Coaching as if they could and should do better. Can you imagine the dinner table argument?
The father screaming "I did not just spend 300,000 dollars for you to be a Coach.
kid "but dad"...
Father "Son u listen to me and listen to me good".....Of course greed and money play a part as well.
That is the best answer I could give. I would hate to further this conversation especially in this forum on this topic. However, I do not duck questions
Zack Grady is an assistant coach at Trinity, who graduated from Williams a few years ago . . .
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 12, 2021, 03:15:20 AM
Haha....Damn Vieira schooled a wide eyed Frosh RB....
Paul made a comment that I'd remember the details. I do — it was a weird game. I showed up around 20 minutes in and Tufts dominated the first half without creating a ton, and Brandeis would have been happier with 0-0 at the half. I had started to think that the Judges struggled with NESCAC teams, after losing to Williams in two Sweet 16s and falling to (a much less-heralded) Tufts in the 2013 regular season, but the longer the game went on the more I felt Brandeis had a chance, and despite being outshot actually created the better opportunities in the second half (Soboff hit the post and missed a subsequent sitter, and Ocel put a nice shot on goal). Two goals in the last 12 minutes: Lynch got the first one off a corner, Savonen hit the inside of the post a minute later, and then Vieira iced it — D4, to be fair, didn't have much help from his covering defender. I felt even better about the result after Tufts tied Amherst the next week, but also being struck by how Tufts played Amherst (at the time the prohibitive favorite for the NESCAC) very evenly despite being down a man for the last 20 mins + OT and thinking that they were a good side. A harbinger of what was to come (that no one could have anticipated).
The other year that Paul was referring to that was 1-0 was at Tufts, and Tufts was ranked No. 1 coming off its maiden title. Another weird game where Tufts probably was the better side on the day but Brandeis won the midfield battle and kept a shutout...I think that was one of
16 one-goal wins that year, and it was also the year of the Judges' last UAA title.
Ah, the days of prime Brandeis-Tufts. The Judges are a ways away right now but hopefully can re-ignite the competitiveness in future years. Easier said than done...
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 11, 2021, 11:37:38 AM
QuoteThis game highlighted everything that is wrong with NESCAC officiating:
1. Allowing one coach to whine and question calls all day with no repercussions
As for Dezotell, who I assume you were referencing, I know little about him but what a spot he is in. First year at Tufts, and basically it's title or bust.
I was at the Messiah-Ithaca game opening weekend of the 2019 season, and Dezotell and his staff rode the ref loudly and often. I wasn't sure if that was their SOP, but I didn't find the referring to be that bad to warrant such persistent griping and complaining.
I was preparing my "It's definitely NOT better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all."
Will probably say a little more later this evening. Got caught having to actually work and follow game at same time. I have never enjoyed watching an OWU-Kenyon match. Never. Just too nerve-wracking, and even when Lords carry much of the play I am positive OWU will win.
Gomez is unbelievably good. Kenyon doubled and tripled him all day, and when that didn't work they fouled him. And he still almost pulled off a GW, first I think in regulation on magical cross and then maybe in 2nd OT when turned last defender in the box and looked like he was in.
A great D3 game imho.
Obviously a critical, gut-check W for the Lords. Stats may be a little deceptive but 27 (11) to 10 (4) shots, and 10 to 4 corners is a big edge, especially when 2nd half and OTs shots were 22 to 5. I thought Kenyon botched a lot of opportunities by shooting too early or too far out, and the OWU GKs made some very good saves too. Would have been heart-breaking to take a L, and I was sort of with the announcer the last few minutes...like get a goal if you can but at least get the draw.
The right back Luke Muther #15 has got to be among the better right backs in the country. Very good defensively but also dangerous offensively. I hope he was cramping instead of a hamstring as he will or would be big loss. And injuries have got be hard for all of the guys who took a year off to save a year of eligibility. Luke is a New England kid and I've heard that his father played at Colby back in the day. The left CB Burns #19 is a soph but this is his first year, and he has a chance to be one of the best at Kenyon in the last decade...and that's saying a lot when thinking of Justice, Myers, Lowry, and current right CB Hosmer-Quint. Burns has scored some big goals, including on free kicks, and he just looks really solid back there. He definitely has eased the pain of losing Bruneau to Springfield.
Given the new talent mixing in the with old, the Lords should get better over the next few weeks (as long as they can stay relatively healthy).
Looking ahead cannot afford a letdown this weekend at Wabash.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 12, 2021, 08:09:17 PM
The right back Luke Muther #15 has got to be among the better right backs in the country.
I thought he was the best player on Kenyon. Hope it was indeed just a cramp.
Best is that he has the hair to match!
#7 NYU goes down tonight to Mt. St. Vincent, 2-1, in non-conference action.
This game was originally scheduled to be played on September 1, but was postponed due to flooding from Post-Tropical Cyclone Ida.
Brace from Ian Lamas late in the second half past a charging NYU goalkeeper Nick Vafiadas seals the comeback for Mt. St. Vincent. The brace came on Mt. St. Vincent's first 2 shots on goal of the match.
NYU goalkeeper Luca Mancuso was serving a 1 game suspension due to a red card received in Saturday's match vs Carnegie Mellon. NYU backup goalkeeper Nick Vafiadas played all 90 minutes of the match.
Shenandoah cancels tomorrow's game at W&L. No make up scheduled. No reason given on W&L's website. Second game this season cancelled.
The game was canceled due to covid. Thankfully, not on the W&L team.
Quote from: Another Mom on October 12, 2021, 06:17:17 AM
Zack Grady is an assistant coach at Trinity, who graduated from Williams a few years ago . . .
Yes you are correct. He had no interest applying this summer so doubtful that will change in off season. He is happy at Trinity and the Williams family is proud of him.
Obviously I'm a few years out so the team is probably drastically different but my senior year we beat Mt. St. Vincent 10-0. They showed up to the field all posting snapchats about playing the defending champs and hoping to keep the score in single digits. Pretty incredible to have progressed from that to beating a top UAA team in 4 years.
From NYU's perspective that just can't happen. That type of loss reveals a lot about a team's mentality and does not bode well for their future.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 13, 2021, 06:19:37 AM
Obviously I'm a few years out so the team is probably drastically different but my senior year we beat Mt. St. Vincent 10-0. They showed up to the field all posting snapchats about playing the defending champs and hoping to keep the score in single digits. Pretty incredible to have progressed from that to beating a top UAA team in 4 years.
From NYU's perspective that just can't happen. That type of loss reveals a lot about a team's mentality and does not bode well for their future.
I would agree with you there, especially since Mt. St. Vincent came into last night's contest tied for third in their own league. Manhattanville is leading in the Skyline Conference standings. So far this season, Mt. St. Vincent tied with Manhattanville and lost to the team currently in second place in the Skyline, Merchant Marine.
The person who scored the brace for Mt. St. Vincent last night is a junior transfer who transferred into Mt. St. Vincent from NCAA DII side Concordia (NY) of the CACC.
On another note, it is rare for a top goalkeeper on any NCAA DIII team to have also played in a USL League One game (third division of the US Soccer pyramid) while under a USL academy contract that allows the player to play on a pro team while still maintaining college eligibilty, like Luca Mancuso did in March, 2019....
I wonder what we got this year with Messiah. The top Messiah posters have been subdued to understate it, like Flying Weasel and Falconer. The Falcons seem to be just sitting there at #2 all season quietly waiting until their season becomes relevant right around the Sweet 16. Meanwhile, Tufts dominates the scene here as the self-proclaimed top program in D3 (and who can argue?) and seem to have the best player at every position in the country as well as the deepest bench. And W&L is the shiny new kid on the block, basking in a sweep of the polls at #1.
Already an interesting week, with NYU, OWU, and now JHU taking their first losses of the campaign.
Correction....NYU lost to Messiah, but first loss since then.
Just to follow up on a theme above. All season the level of interest, in terms of both depth and breadth, seems way down. I made that observation more locally around Great Lakes interest, but frankly all the regions seem down, and some of the interest in teams that usually generate a lot of posting and multiple posters also seems down. It's true that some regions have had minimal presence on the site, but this feels different. Is it the missed year? Covid? A symptom of national depression? Also surprised that even the usual high interest in NESCAC seems down. Where are the Amherst posters to defend their program? Usually the Mid-Atlantic has more than a handful of posters beyond just the Messiah folks. Are there a lot of players and fans who never officially join and post who regularly follow the site? Who are the 100 to 200 guests often lurking at any given time? Just curious.
This site can be intimidating, especially if one isn't a former player or coach. I am surprised there aren't more parents of players and those going through recruiting.
Quote from: Another Mom on October 13, 2021, 06:58:10 PM
This site can be intimidating, especially if one isn't a former player or coach. I am surprised there aren't more parents of players and those going through recruiting.
Agreed. It is intimidating, especially for new parents who one would think would the ongoing feeder system for keeping the site vibrant and alive. For new posters, especially parents of new players, there are plenty of opportunities to feel stupid. It takes at least a couple of years to understand what seem like arcane and unfair rules in terms of NCAA at large selections, how the RvR system works, how the NCAA regional rankings are different and more important than the current regional rankings folks are seeing every week, etc, etc.. As a newbie it is brutal to see your team doing great and learn that they may not or will not make the tournament because of SoS or RvR or whatever. Look at Randolph this year...undefeated. The Wildcats, I think they're the Wildcats, had a wonderful season around 2013 or 2014 and even though they were like 17-0-1 they didn't even get regionally ranked. Those things get explained well by a few here, but still, even after a few years, I sometimes was scratching my head. And then there are long-time posters, like myself I suppose, that can be hard to deal with without knowing more about them or maybe would even worse if you knew more lol. But all that said, there are a fair amount of posters who aren't intimidated in the least and whether now too busy, finally too mature haha, or whatever, just aren't posting or posting like they did before. Also the intimidation angle doesn't account for ex-players and coaches not being more active, and I don't know what's that about, because I'm sure Tufts and Amherst will have a more than a handful of hard-core alums who will have their day made or ruined by the result on Saturday.
Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.
My therapist says posting here you have to have your head examined ... wait ... I'm only a "Second Stringer" ?!?!?!?! That comes to an end by Friday.....
Love the site, don't feel intimidated at all. Really appreciate the insiders perspective from those that played and love the historical perspective from those that have incredible memories. I was a D3 athlete (hoops at Tufts) and I've got great friends and great memories. Now that my son is playing D3 soccer he realizes what I've been telling him for years...the rivalries are intense, the times with your teammates are amazing...and the talent is real.
That's the thing about D3 sports that I don't think folks understand. The talent level has just exploded.
That said...it does seem like there's a group of teams that are always good...and not too many newcomers recently.
I'm curious if that's going to change. Messiah, Tufts, Amherst, Calvin...I'd like to see more programs get consistently competitive.
What I'm also curious to learn is how deep some of these leagues are. NESCAC and UAA seem really deep. Hopkins/F&M league a little less so. With talent increasing across the country will new leagues emerge as really deep?
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.
This may account for a segment, maybe a large one that impacts new traffic, but if you think about some of the posters of some renown here mentioned over the past couple of days, I don't think they're on Twitter and Facebook or whatever a lot. I don't really view the site as a bulletin board even though that's obviously technically true. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't know of another place to find actual news, insights, takes, polls, promotion of programs, etc for D3 soccer. This may sound strange, but I go to ESPN or even Twitter to read articles including sports articles and in mind this is the closest thing to something like ESPN in terms stories, recaps, pundit takes, etc. I know at best that's it's amateurish journalism and commentary, but for me that's what makes it fun. And imo all of the posters here who post with frequency (and most who are new or post infrequently) try to be informative and within a reasonable proximity of fairness and objectivity. I don't have to like the columnist in Nebraska but that doesn't mean that I don't recognize he or she is a good columnist.
Speaking of newbies, how does one give Karma points? Sometimes I will really agree with a post and want to give the equivalent of a thumbs up. That's giving a Karma point, yes? I am sorry to be dim, but I haven't figured out how to do it!
Quote from: D3_Slack on October 13, 2021, 08:04:42 PM
That's the thing about D3 sports that I don't think folks understand. The talent level has just exploded.
I played back in the early 90s and have been following the D3 soccer landscape for about 15-20 years now. My son is now playing and I've told him on more than one occasion that D3 today is like D1 30 years ago. The players are better, the programs are more serious, the training is more intense, etc, etc.
Newbie here. I started following this site last year as my son's D3 recruiting started picking up. I've been trying to catch games of several Virginia schools that he is considering and see what opinions folks on this site have of various programs. I watched a bit of the Mary Washington vs. St. Mary's Md. game -- UMW with a convincing win and looked good overall.
Not sure if this is the proper forum -- but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how long the Coast 2 Coast conference (where CNU, UMW, and Salisbury are members) is going to last . With essentially no regular season conference schedule, I would think that could negatively impact rivalries, scheduling, and possibly recruiting.
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.
Yep. It's unfortunate, and I suspect that it's a generational thing.
There are so many parts of the D3 landscape that just aren't getting covered. Even a couple quick sentences on these boards from people who are watching games would be welcome.
Quote from: Another Mom on October 13, 2021, 08:57:01 PM
Speaking of newbies, how does one give Karma points? Sometimes I will really agree with a post and want to give the equivalent of a thumbs up. That's giving a Karma point, yes? I am sorry to be dim, but I haven't figured out how to do it!
You have to reach 200 posts to be able to dole out karma. Keep going, Another Mom, you're well on your way there!
Quote from: Chargers96 on October 13, 2021, 09:19:07 PM
Not sure if this is the proper forum -- but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how long the Coast 2 Coast conference (where CNU, UMW, and Salisbury are members) is going to last . With essentially no regular season conference schedule, I would think that could negatively impact rivalries, scheduling, and possibly recruiting.
The C2C has also drawn similar questions on the basketball boards on this site. It's transparently a flag of convenience for schools that currently find themselves orphans and who would get into a local league at the drop of a hat if they could. Current NCAA rules allow a league like the C2C to exist without a regular-season conference schedule, so these schools are taking advantage of the loophole to give themselves a chance to win an automatic bid to the D3 tourneys in the various sports the C2C sponsors. I can't blame them for wanting to avoid independent status; being an indie comes with a whole set of headaches, particularly as far as men's soccer is concerned, because there's currently not enough full-member independents to qualify for a so-called Pool B bid to the tourney field.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 13, 2021, 06:25:22 PM
I wonder what we got this year with Messiah. The top Messiah posters have been subdued to understate it, like Flying Weasel and Falconer. The Falcons seem to be just sitting there at #2 all season quietly waiting until their season becomes relevant right around the Sweet 16. Meanwhile, Tufts dominates the scene here as the self-proclaimed top program in D3 (and who can argue?) and seem to have the best player at every position in the country as well as the deepest bench. And W&L is the shiny new kid on the block, basking in a sweep of the polls at #1.
Already an interesting week, with NYU, OWU, and now JHU taking their first losses of the campaign.
Correction....NYU lost to Messiah, but first loss since then.
I just finished watching Messiah beat Alvernia (9-3) very thoroughly - 4-0 (shots 30-4). I've seen Messiah play a few times in person and virtually all of their games via stream. All of the teams that have played them straight up have struggled including NYU; they worked their way (kinda) back into the game after changing formation and playing more conservatively. The teams that have given them problems play a low block and counter, I think that's typical.
The coach is fielding 20+ players a game so they are deep. An interesting development over the past few games is a freshman, #9, is now co-leading the team in scoring. What makes it particularly interesting is that he's a 6'4" converted central defender; scoring goals every which way (read not simply headers off set pieces).
I haven't watched enough of the other top teams to compare Messiah with them, particularly on a player to player basis. What is obvious from the stats and live play is that Messiah have a lot of goals in them.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 13, 2021, 06:25:22 PM
I wonder what we got this year with Messiah. The top Messiah posters have been subdued to understate it, like Flying Weasel and Falconer. The Falcons seem to be just sitting there at #2 all season quietly waiting until their season becomes relevant right around the Sweet 16. Meanwhile, Tufts dominates the scene here as the self-proclaimed top program in D3 (and who can argue?) and seem to have the best player at every position in the country as well as the deepest bench.
OK, I'll take the bait.
I said last month, that this year's version of Messiah was as good as any I have seen at possessing the ball, by putting it consistently into space and running onto it. That was early in the season. I affirm it again, after watching last night's game vs Alvernia in person--my first opportunity to do that in several weeks. (I've seen some of the other games online, including NYU where I said that game seemed like a Final Four level contest.) Well, I haven't changed my mind: this team is right there with the greatest Falcon teams on possession, though not necessarily scoring. The score last night could easily have been 7 or 8 to zip, except for the efforts of Alvernia keeper's and a couple of near misses. The Falcons are in prime form. Also, as Maine Soccer Fan noted, they are deep. The backup striker he/she mentioned, 6'4" true FR Stefan Leitzel, was indeed recruited as a CB but seems to have the instincts and skills of a striker. To see what I mean, watch the final goal in these highlights: https://gomessiah.com/sports/mens-soccer. While you're at it, watch all four goals. Three of them were textbook plays, and two of them (first and last) happened with most of the starters out.
The second goal was created by Luke Groothoff, undoubtedly the best all-around player in the conference. Having now seen Tufts half a dozen times, though not in person, I don't hesitate to say that Tufts doesn't have a player as good as him--no knock on Tufts, who might again win it all. I'm simply responding to PN's deliberately provocative claim. Typically, he's double or triple-teamed when he receives the ball, so he often has opportunities to school defenders. Another huge bright spot for the Falcons is the young CB Ben Vollmer, who went to HS in Penn State's backyard. He was his HS conference POY: https://www.pennlive.com/sports/2018/11/state-colleges-ben-vollmer-leads-list-of-mid-penn-commonwealth-boys-soccer-all-stars.html and all-state. That conference routinely sends players to high D1 schools. Vollmer was a MF in high school, so he understands very well how to initiate attacks from the back line--and he's great at anticipating where he needs to position himself defensively.
That's enough for now.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 13, 2021, 11:20:44 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.
Yep. It's unfortunate, and I suspect that it's a generational thing.
There are so many parts of the D3 landscape that just aren't getting covered. Even a couple quick sentences on these boards from people who are watching games would be welcome.
It used to be that this was one of the few places out there to share information about D3 sports. Today most schools have gotten more sophisticated in their use of social media and their own websites and it apparently meets the needs for many who just want to see how Johnny and his team did in the latest match - not to mention the explosion of free broadcasts (of varying quality, LOL) so you can actually watch in real-time instead of asking others about that play you heard about a day or two later. As someone who has been here since before the previous incarnation of the d3sports boards (predating d3sports as an entity - 2005 and basically unchanged since) the traffic and discussion pales compared to the glory days here.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 08:06:55 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 13, 2021, 11:20:44 PM
Quote from: jknezek on October 13, 2021, 07:44:20 PM
Posting on bulletin boards has trended downward for years. Other social media is simply more popular. Most people just want to follow their team, and that can be done on Facebook or twitter, let alone school websites. Posting on here involves more... it's active, not passive. You have to really care. Most people just want to follow.
Yep. It's unfortunate, and I suspect that it's a generational thing.
There are so many parts of the D3 landscape that just aren't getting covered. Even a couple quick sentences on these boards from people who are watching games would be welcome.
It used to be that this was one of the few places out there to share information about D3 sports. Today most schools have gotten more sophisticated in their use of social media and their own websites and it apparently meets the needs for many who just want to see how Johnny and his team did in the latest match - not to mention the explosion of free broadcasts (of varying quality, LOL) so you can actually watch in real-time instead of asking others about that play you heard about a day or two later. As someone who has been here since before the previous incarnation of the d3sports boards (predating d3sports as an entity - 2005 and basically unchanged since) the traffic and discussion pales compared to the glory days here.
Even in the last few years the traffic has fallen off a cliff as the generation that started posting in the early 2000s mostly has aged out over the last 10 years, for a variety of reasons. The other problem occurs when the teams that were powers in that era shift down in relevance. Because, let's face it, most posters are active when their teams are good, and disappear when they aren't.
Sadly the teams that have become good just haven't generated a new generation of posters. With COVID last year, which dropped traffic even more, and a lack of football Kickoff magazines for the last 2 years, I keep expecting to come here and find a note from Pat announcing the end. That will be a sad day as there is no other place to discuss D3. There are plenty of places to get D3 news these days, as has been pointed out, but no place to really talk about it except the echo chamber of your own school's Facebook or Twitter feed.
But we do love our echo chambers these days...
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 13, 2021, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: Chargers96 on October 13, 2021, 09:19:07 PM
Not sure if this is the proper forum -- but I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on how long the Coast 2 Coast conference (where CNU, UMW, and Salisbury are members) is going to last . With essentially no regular season conference schedule, I would think that could negatively impact rivalries, scheduling, and possibly recruiting.
The C2C has also drawn similar questions on the basketball boards on this site. It's transparently a flag of convenience for schools that currently find themselves orphans and who would get into a local league at the drop of a hat if they could. Current NCAA rules allow a league like the C2C to exist without a regular-season conference schedule, so these schools are taking advantage of the loophole to give themselves a chance to win an automatic bid to the D3 tourneys in the various sports the C2C sponsors. I can't blame them for wanting to avoid independent status; being an indie comes with a whole set of headaches, particularly as far as men's soccer is concerned, because there's currently not enough full-member independents to qualify for a so-called Pool B bid to the tourney field.
I hate these conferences. I think it's complete b.s. I understand why schools do it, and more power to them for finding a ridiculous loophole, but I think you should have to have a regular season to award a bid. Something like more than 40% of your games have to be against conference foes. That's not really a high bar in an 18-20 game season. If you don't want a post-season tournament, I'm ok with that. I'd actually prefer soccer to award bids based on the regular season finish, but since many leagues don't play a full round robin (cough, ODAC b.s. -- Randolph not playing W&L this year, cough) that is hard to justify. But these conferences of convenience just annoy me. Luckily there don't need to be many of them, but not stealing an AQ for this b.s. is the whole point of Pool B and the fallback to Pool C.
Sounds like at a minimum all agree that interest and participation are down. IMO there are any number of reasons coalescing. For individuals, who knows...marriage, having a kid, a new phase of your children's lives that creates or demands a change in focus and/or interests, work changes, lack of work and having more important concerns to worry about, grad school, etc, etc. I'm not sure why there aren't more guys like D4 providing great commentary and insight while also pushing his program, but often old parents like myself who probably in some ways have no business still being here maintain more of a maniacal interest then the sons who actually played. My son still loves Kenyon and Kenyon soccer, and he'll be thrilled if they have great success, but he doesn't have time to follow closely, watch all the games, etc. He certainly doesn't have the time or level of interest to be posting.
Paul Newman's son..."Geez, Dad, wtf did you do this time?"
Paul Newman..."Whatever you think or might be worried I have done, I did."
I'm actually not that impressed with what most schools provide on their websites and social media. I'm not aware of more than two to three handfuls of programs that have some combination of well-done recaps, recaps with a coach quote, highlight packages, weekly coach shows, well above average broadcast set-ups, etc. Some of the ones that did a good job 8-9 years ago are among those still doing a good job. A majority of schools use that 8th grade template to do recaps.....How It Happened...What's Next...and like one sentence or two for each category. Kenyon used to do a weekly coach show, as did Oberlin, and I'm sure others still do, but it's not like most programs websites are overflowing with content and more than the most stereotypic information. And as was suggested, schools where programs are down are going to offer less and those programs aren't likely to have active posters. If you see someone posting a lot, there's a good chance his or her team is "in the hunt."
Of course over the last two years there has been talk about how many schools might not survive, partly due to the pandemic, and perhaps for some related to political persuasions. We've seen posts in just the last week about Allegheny, a once consistently decent to good program that appears to be a shell of its former self.
Quote from: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 09:14:33 AM
Even in the last few years the traffic has fallen off a cliff as the generation that started posting in the early 2000s mostly has aged out over the last 10 years, for a variety of reasons. The other problem occurs when the teams that were powers in that era shift down in relevance. Because, let's face it, most posters are active when their teams are good, and disappear when they aren't.
Sadly the teams that have become good just haven't generated a new generation of posters. With COVID last year, which dropped traffic even more, and a lack of football Kickoff magazines for the last 2 years, I keep expecting to come here and find a note from Pat announcing the end. That will be a sad day as there is no other place to discuss D3. There are plenty of places to get D3 news these days, as has been pointed out, but no place to really talk about it except the echo chamber of your own school's Facebook or Twitter feed.
But we do love our echo chambers these days...
A couple of things on the bolded part above:
(1) D3soccer isn't part of the D3sports network, they just use the D3sports board (which doesn't mean much if Pat pulls the plug, but...)
(2) D3sports, which formerly relied on Kickoff for a lot of its annual funding, now has what appears to be a decently supported
Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/d3sports/posts), currently with 170 patrons, which is offsetting the loss of Kickoff and advertising revenue from reduced traffic. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if anyone wanted to throw another cup of coffee (or more) their way each month. As someone who's been around here since the '90s (and actually cashed a check or two back in the early Kickoff days) I'm one of the 170.
Absent the Patreon revenue, I fear your concern would have come true already.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 10:52:23 AM
Quote from: jknezek on October 14, 2021, 09:14:33 AM
Even in the last few years the traffic has fallen off a cliff as the generation that started posting in the early 2000s mostly has aged out over the last 10 years, for a variety of reasons. The other problem occurs when the teams that were powers in that era shift down in relevance. Because, let's face it, most posters are active when their teams are good, and disappear when they aren't.
Sadly the teams that have become good just haven't generated a new generation of posters. With COVID last year, which dropped traffic even more, and a lack of football Kickoff magazines for the last 2 years, I keep expecting to come here and find a note from Pat announcing the end. That will be a sad day as there is no other place to discuss D3. There are plenty of places to get D3 news these days, as has been pointed out, but no place to really talk about it except the echo chamber of your own school's Facebook or Twitter feed.
But we do love our echo chambers these days...
A couple of things on the bolded part above:
(1) D3soccer isn't part of the D3sports network, they just use the D3sports board (which doesn't mean much if Pat pulls the plug, but...)
(2) D3sports, which formerly relied on Kickoff for a lot of its annual funding, now has what appears to be a decently supported Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/d3sports/posts), currently with 170 patrons, which is offsetting the loss of Kickoff and advertising revenue from reduced traffic. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if anyone wanted to throw another cup of coffee (or more) their way each month. As someone who's been around here since the '90s (and actually cashed a check or two back in the early Kickoff days) I'm one of the 170.
Absent the Patreon revenue, I fear your concern would have come true already.
I have to admit, I don't spent much time on d3soccer.com. Though I do try and visit the d3 sites, including soccer, and click on a banner or two regularly. 1) it messes with google when I randomly click on things, 2) it supports the sites, though in a very small way. I also am a patreon member, but I use a different username and email since it involves money. This site is woefully insecure!
And I completely agree with the bolded part. Hopefully it is enough. A cup of coffee money per month to come here and post and chat is well worth it to me.
Plus I've built this pretty good vba macro to run and post the two polls I'm doing and I'd hate to see my pet project go to waste! Was thinking I'd even offer to run a national basketball fan poll this year, though I know less about basketball than I do about... well... pretty much anything.
Maybe that explains some of the variance in our takes. When you said you don't spend much time on D3soccer.com I did a double-take. I think of the D3 soccer website and the board as very much together and interconnected (even if they aren't). And even though no one's really doing columns and the like right now, I still use the website quite a bit in terms of seeing scores, finding links to games, looking at team records, box scores, finding things from past years, etc.
My last thought on this topic and I'll try to shut up.
Posting is akin to texting in the sense that affect, intent, sarcasm, lack of sarcasm, humor, etc can be hard to read. I am surprised that humor isn't used more often and by a broader range of posters. Sometimes the feel here seems a little too serious or even dour. With some I can't picture them laughing (like ever) and I often wonder how different they might seem in person.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 14, 2021, 11:06:24 AM
Maybe that explains some of the variance in our takes. When you said you don't spend much time on D3soccer.com I did a double-take. I think of the D3 soccer website and the board as very much together and interconnected (even if they aren't). And even though no one's really doing columns and the like right now, I still use the website quite a bit in terms of seeing scores, finding links to games, looking at team records, box scores, finding things from past years, etc.
And now you know why I don't post so much about specific teams or games, other than a few things about W&L. And why I'm not a voter in the poll. I just don't know that much.
I love soccer. Grew up playing from 6 year old rec leagues through ODP tryouts and state championships for club and h.s., right up until Coach Piranhian at W&L was kind enough to tell me his bench wasn't the best place for me to spend probably 3 or 4 years of my college experience. Played on some good W&L club teams instead in college. Came up just short of going to what was then called the Club National Cup. Went back to some bottom tier local men's leagues in my 20s in NYC and then S. FL until my knees gave out. Was always fun being called Blanco on teams that didn't speak English, but they also appreciated that I could actually play a bit.
I hold a D license for coaching, was about to start on my C license when the last kid decided out, I reffed for 6 years as a kid and 10 more in my 20s and early 30s, coached all 3 of my kids when they were little before they moved on to martial arts. I follow the national team, I punish myself by being a NYRB fan, I go to local Birmingham Legion USL games, I love the Champions League and will even suffer through whatever the current cup competitions between MLS and Liga MX are called.
But sitting down to watch D3 soccer over the internet on my tv? Hell, even D1. I just can't do it outside of my alma mater. Even when the D1 College Cup was in town I bought tickets, went to the games, and hated the style. The rules promote a form of soccer that I can't stomach. And there are so few teams like Messiah that play the beautiful game, and so many teams that play kick and foul and run and sub that I just want to scream most of the time.
More power to you guys. And I love your analysis and SimpleCoach's additions this year. You guys are doing a great job with the poll as far as I can tell. But it's just not for me.
Sorry, I got that confused, and I was trying to be humorous when I said "I object" to you and Hopkins declining to be a pollster. In my mind, myself and others don't have any knowledge or expertise more than I figured you guys did (and after all the poll was your idea!). Anyway, you and Hopkins are obviously very bright guys, but now I understand better if you aren't on the website much (which is a treasure-trove of info).
I access the board through the website. Do others access differently? I think I also thought that because some of the key players running the website historically have been prime posters as well.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 14, 2021, 11:40:05 AM
Sorry, I got that confused, and I was trying to be humorous when I said "I object" to you and Hopkins declining to be a pollster. In my mind, myself and others don't have any knowledge or expertise more than I figured you guys did (and after all the poll was your idea!). Anyway, you and Hopkins are obviously very bright guys, but now I understand better if you aren't on the website much (which is a treasure-trove of info).
I access the board through the website. Do others access differently? I think I also thought that because some of the key players running the website historically have been prime posters as well.
I just come straight to the board, d3boards.com. But typically I post more in the football boards than the soccer ones, though I try to maintain a presence here also because soccer is a passion but d3 football is my guilty pleasure to watch.
I volunteered to run the soccer poll because I built the infrastructure for the Region III Fan Poll in football this year and other than putting in the ballots, it is all automated and my time commitment is pretty small. To be fair, Christian Shirk did offer me the spreadsheet he uses for the d3soccer.com poll, even made some changes to it to accommodate my random idea for 20 teams instead of 25, which was very nice, so I may not have had to do much work even if I hadn't already built out my toy.
So I was just hoping to drive some views and discussion in the soccer area. As you may have noticed, I want these boards to remain. If I can do a little bit to drive some views, I will. We lost the laxpower boards for d3 lacrosse a couple years ago and I miss them. I don't want the same thing to happen here.
Anyway, all this is just clogging up these boards off topic. Suffice to say, I enjoy what you guys post and having this community available. I obviously enjoy seeing W&L doing well. But I don't really enjoy watching college soccer. That may seem a bit cold, even harsh to the student athletes who really don't and shouldn't care about my opinion, but everyone has their peculiarities.
When I start typing d3, d3boards.com is what comes up first ;-) There are many other sports than soccer represented and it's the easiest way to get to whichever of them I want to post in that day - mostly football, basketball, baseball in that order.
d3soccer *used* to be part of the d3sports empire; it was spun off somewhere between 5-10 years ago so the d3sports folks could focus on the sports that bring them a better return (those three). I think there used to be a d3hockey.com but it's no longer around, and the d3boards discussion is very inactive. There's a d3volleyball board too where there are like two of us that post.
I've mostly been a lurker over the years. My observation about this year is that, if the quantity is down, the quality of posts is up. Real analysis, good debate. I still enjoy it. Keep it up you nerds! ;D
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
When I start typing d3, d3boards.com is what comes up first ;-) There are many other sports than soccer represented and it's the easiest way to get to whichever of them I want to post in that day - mostly football, basketball, baseball in that order.
d3soccer *used* to be part of the d3sports empire; it was spun off somewhere between 5-10 years ago so the d3sports folks could focus on the sports that bring them a better return (those three). I think there used to be a d3hockey.com but it's no longer around, and the d3boards discussion is very inactive. There's a d3volleyball board too where there are like two of us that post.
Very interesting. I have D3soccer.com saved as a favorite and is on every toolbar of every device I use. You guys are the true D3 warriors. I have zero interest in D3 sports beyond soccer. Years ago I was interested in Grinnell bball for a few days because of some brief national publicity. Also had a mild interest in Middlebury hockey because my son went to hockey camp there a couple of years and at least at the time the Midd facility/rink blew me away. Who has won D3 hockey titles over the past 10 years? I watch a ton of D1 basketball, the NBA, and have a seasonal interest in college and pro football. Occasionally watch hockey which I much prefer to baseball at any level. I watch a lot of EPL and CL soccer, some MLS and USMNT and USWNT. Might watch a semi or final of Wimbledon, French Open, US Open but in general rarely watch tennis. And no golf for me.
@JKNezek. That's very kind of you and do appreciate it.
I've been a player, coach, referee at every level of the game in the US ... and went as far as having a trial in Europe ... which clearly didn't go the way I wanted it go. Its a mind dedicated to the game over 40 years in the making. I had no idea this site existed until a friend of mine told me about it in August.
That buddy of mine has a son who was/is an outstanding holding mid. Understood the game, the ebbs and flows, and was maniacally consistent with the ball. He was also the most underrated midfielder at his club. In large part because they played like a Championship level regional English team. Recruited by a couple D1 schools that he didn't like, ultimately chose a school for it's Econ & Finance program and its mission. D3. Decided he would walk on. Watched the team play a number of times and was pretty sure he would make it. I actually went to watch the first of the tryouts and for a whole slew of reasons and biases, I thought he was the best outright soccer player out there. But, lo and behold, coach doesn't take him.
Frankly, I was stunned. It basically challenged a number of principles that I have developed over the years that I think matter, and it's what I look at in a player. As an aside, I have other friends who are D3 soccer coaches at a number of different colleges that I do "scouting" and player analysis for. Full disclosure: I don't get paid, but I do get free shirts and other gear in return for the work... my wife really has a problem with this part since I have accumulated so much stuff, I have barely worn some of it.
Anyhow, they have been railing for years about how the game is played, and in their own way are trying to break the mold. And yes, after watching close to 150 games, there is a mold. So I took this personal affront, along with what I was already doing for these coaches, to study the game and what I hold to be true about the game of soccer. I talk about how the game is capable of leaving coaches behind .... well I don't want to be that guy. So, what better way than to reassess how I think the game should be played?
Turns out I am watching so many games that I figured I should share with like minded folks. One of my friends at a small mid-western college suggested here.
So there you have it. Not sure I am adding value to anyone's love or understanding of the game ... but I hope if anything, it show's my love and ... at least evolving understanding of the game. Who thought that I would have so much fun in retirement!
Why people don't come here? I wish I could say. Would love to take over this if at any point someone doesn't want it ...
Quote from: SimpleCoach on October 14, 2021, 01:10:06 PM
@JKNezek. That's very kind of you and do appreciate it.
I've been a player, coach, referee at every level of the game in the US ... and went as far as having a trial in Europe ... which clearly didn't go the way I wanted it go. Its a mind dedicated to the game over 40 years in the making. I had no idea this site existed until a friend of mine told me about it in August.
That buddy of mine has a son who was/is an outstanding holding mid. Understood the game, the ebbs and flows, and was maniacally consistent with the ball. He was also the most underrated midfielder at his club. In large part because they played like a Championship level regional English team. Recruited by a couple D1 schools that he didn't like, ultimately chose a school for it's Econ & Finance program and its mission. D3. Decided he would walk on. Watched the team play a number of times and was pretty sure he would make it. I actually went to watch the first of the tryouts and for a whole slew of reasons and biases, I thought he was the best outright soccer player out there. But, lo and behold, coach doesn't take him.
Frankly, I was stunned. It basically challenged a number of principles that I have developed over the years that I think matter, and it's what I look at in a player. As an aside, I have other friends who are D3 soccer coaches at a number of different colleges that I do "scouting" and player analysis for. Full disclosure: I don't get paid, but I do get free shirts and other gear in return for the work... my wife really has a problem with this part since I have accumulated so much stuff, I have barely worn some of it.
Anyhow, they have been railing for years about how the game is played, and in their own way are trying to break the mold. And yes, after watching close to 150 games, there is a mold. So I took this personal affront, along with what I was already doing for these coaches, to study the game and what I hold to be true about the game of soccer. I talk about how the game is capable of leaving coaches behind .... well I don't want to be that guy. So, what better way than to reassess how I think the game should be played?
A lot of this is why I don't enjoy watching college soccer. I was a technical and tactical player. I was physically imposing when I needed to be, often playing what was called stopper at the time in a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 but now would be defensive mid or box to box mid. What I wasn't was fast. I could run all day, but I sucked in a sprint. So my tactics and positioning were always very good, they had to be. In higher level club competition, with a few subs and long games, I could lay off in the beginning of the game and then tighten down as opposing players wore out. I could pass early in each half and challenge one on one later going forward.
In h.s. and college.... every time I would wear someone down... in would come the fast fresh legs. In h.s., I was good enough that it didn't matter. In college... well, just too slow. So yes, I have a huge bias against the rules of the game in college. Personally but also because what it does to players. Speed, speed, kick and run, and speed. Not enough practice time, too many games, too many subs.
I firmly believe David Beckham would have struggled in U.S. soccer development levels in the 90s. I don't think he would have made a D1 mid 90s college program and I think his playing type would still struggle in college. Luckily the USL and MLS academy teams, and the shift in U.S. Soccer development, have greatly diminished the importance and relevance of college soccer. That's a good thing if we ever want to develop truly good players.
Don't get me wrong, I was never going to be a pro or a high level college player, regardless of the rules. Beckham was only slow by pro standards, I was slow by any standard! But college soccer, in general, is a breeding ground for poor tactics and even worse player development.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 14, 2021, 11:59:21 AM
When I start typing d3, d3boards.com is what comes up first ;-) There are many other sports than soccer represented and it's the easiest way to get to whichever of them I want to post in that day - mostly football, basketball, baseball in that order.
d3soccer *used* to be part of the d3sports empire; it was spun off somewhere between 5-10 years ago so the d3sports folks could focus on the sports that bring them a better return (those three). I think there used to be a d3hockey.com but it's no longer around, and the d3boards discussion is very inactive. There's a d3volleyball board too where there are like two of us that post.
I'm like Ron in that I'm a D3 sports omnivore. Part of that is because I do PBP for nine different sports -- men and women really do play the same game differently, which warrants describing them as different sports -- and the boards are a good alternative source of info to press releases. But part of that has to do with the fact that, philosophically, I'm a D3 devotee; I've gotten to the point where I barely care about D1 sports at all anymore, even during March Madness. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person in the universe who is content to watch a Eureka @ Webster basketball game or a Lynchburg @ Eastern Mennonite soccer game, despite having zero connections to any of those schools.
My time on d3boards.com is usually shaped by whatever sport is in season. Right now I'm active on the football and soccer boards (and, like Ron, I bemoan the fact that the volleyball board is moribund). A month from now I'll be knee-deep in basketball (both men and women), and in the spring I'll be on the baseball boards while wondering if anybody out there is going to contribute anything at all to the softball boards.
I wish that Pat hadn't spun off d3soccer.com to Christan & Co., because those guys have been forced to reinvent the wheel while Pat's got this whole thing down to a science, but I understand his reasons. In addition to what Ron mentioned, Pat's just not a soccer guy at all; he's football, first and foremost, but very much a D3 basketball maven as well. (He farms out a lot of the work on d3baseball.com to Jim Dixon -- Pat's entitled to two seasons a year to have a life, after all.)
I'm not a soccer person by upbringing. I never played the sport, and I really didn't follow it much at all until North Park began to build a strong program two decades ago. Most of what I learned about the game was through osmosis and observation by sitting with soccer aficionados and former varsity players in the stands until a decade ago, when NPU added men's and women's soccer to my broadcasting menu and I started watching Premier League streams on YouTube in order to get a handle on how best to call play-by-play for the sport. I don't claim to have anything close to SimpleCoach's Yoda-like mastery of soccer's intricacies, although I'm at the point now where I fully recognize where jknezek is coming from in his criticism of college soccer.
I've been here for over twenty years as a participating poster, and I'll certainly miss d3boards.com if this site goes the way of the dodo and the passenger pigeon. It's not just about the information, it's about the community. It's about being a little less cut off and a little more expansive in your view of the competitive world in which your alma mater dwells. Back in the days before livestreaming, a bunch of regulars on the CCIW men's basketball board who represented five different schools within the conference would regularly get together at various CCIW gyms and talk shop before and after games, and the regulars would meet all sorts of fans in the stands who would learn their identity through word of mouth and would come up to you and introduce themselves as lurkers. That sort of stuff doesn't really seem to happen anymore.
But enough of my kvetching, as this is turning into yet another "get off my lawn" occasion. ;)
Man, this is a GREAT discussion and with a lot of areas to explore. While we're doing quasi-autobios, I've got a sliver, along with a few thoughts on this board:
* I am a creature of message boards, having discovered them as a great alternative to roaming around the comment sections of various blogs when the technology became widely accessible. I was around when BigSoccer took off and subsequently blew up in stature in the late 90s. I actually moderated the Yanks Abroad forum for a stint. One thing that I'll touch on later, they had a forum that was titled Off Topic and I met ppl on those threads that I subsequently attended their weddings and still talk to/visit out of town to this day.
* I have drastically reduced my participation in message boards because I simply don't have the bandwidth, but I still frequent a forum called the Sports Frog daily, as well as the boards of MGoBlog, which is my goto source of Michigan sports info (I grew up there, still talk to my sportscaster buddy that works for a Detroit station and does sidelines for the football game. Gonna see him in November, can't wait!) And, of course, I've started hitting this board up with more frequency the last few years.
* One critique, that I kind of alluded to above, is that (for understandable reasons) a high percentage of people come here to post/read about a single team. Maybe some parents with recruits are casting a wider net, but we don't hear from them too often. This thread is an awesome example of how engaging a message board can be when you allow the conversation to get just a little off topic.
I'm not sure if there was any one single post I can point to, but my gut/back of mind recollection is that there was the vibe that off-topic chatter was really discouraged. I think maybe when traffic was heavier this was a valid concern?
* Anyways, in terms of the poll, I'm in same boat as jknezak... I came on here to get some background and insight on Hopkins and their opponents, but I started getting hooked into the bigger picture discussions. But, I still simply don't have enough streaming time to follow the national scene to a level would do the poll justice. With that said, one of the reasons I started posting the Mid-Atlantic Games of Note and the results in that thread is get more outside of the Centennial Conf games. I've watched a lot of games (beyond the usual Messiah, because.. Messiah) than I have in years past and it's cool to start building that knowledge.
* Lastly, the thing some of you might bristle at... Soccer can be REALLY boring. The best I can really do with games where I don't have a rooting interest (at this level), is watch a few minutes of the first half to get a feel, and then start Red Zoning it by looking at the scoreboard and finding the goals. :D I like to back a few minutes and see the context, but, man... I don't know how some of you guys sit through 90 minutes of SOME really boring D3 games. (There is quality to be found, and you know it when you see it.)
BTW, per Simple Coach's comment (ETA and now Conn College), I am on a board that asks everyone to chip in a pretty minimal amount every year to host the message board. If someone ever threatens to shut this down, I'd absolutely pony up to keep it going.
Great post, ConnAlum.....appreciate you taking the leap (and risk lol). Occasionally folks do their own self-made kind of column. Start a thread and share your thoughts twice a week or weekly or biweekly if you like. There must be a lot of folks like you....as at any given time there seem to be 150-200 guests on here. I'm curious if an coaches check the site and see what's being said, or if players say "hey coach, that idiot is talking smack about you again."
Hopkins, just to be clear I don't watch games of all (or even most of) the teams I vote for in the poll. Like I'm sure others do, I try to spin out a little narrative by piecing together tidbits from box scores and occasionally a recap, and I will go through schedules of teams I'm the fence about to see the quality of Ws, Ts, and Ls. I will portions of games of teams I've developed some interest in for whatever reason including a team being hyped by someone that I check out. So now I might 15-20 minutes of an Emory game or Chicago and now for example I want to see NYU. It's also fun to me to browse around just to get a feel of the different facilities and such. I recall a few years ago I watched Lynchburg and Roanoke occasionally because I heard they actually drew spectators from the community at large. Anybody know if my guy at Lynchburg is still there? He had the best and coolest intro spots I've ever seen, and the the broadcasts were top-tier for D3 with like real commercials.
Even a few dedicated posters can make a big difference here, and new blood is great. You can take a team that hardly anyone talks about and folks will read what you write and develop at least a marginal interest. When I started around late 2012 no one ever talked about Kenyon, like ever, and that's partly because they had been pretty mediocre for a spell...and now a lot probably would like to see the word 'Kenyon' a lot less. But the point is you can generate some interest, and who knows, maybe even create enough interest for a recruit here and there to get your school or others you know a lot about a look.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 14, 2021, 03:10:26 PM
Hopkins, just to be clear I don't watch games of all (or even most of) the teams I vote for in the poll. Like I'm sure others do, I try to spin out a little narrative by piecing together tidbits from box scores and occasionally a recap, and I will go through schedules of teams I'm the fence about to see the quality of Ws, Ts, and Ls. I will portions of games of teams I've developed some interest in for whatever reason including a team being hyped by someone that I check out. So now I might 15-20 minutes of an Emory game or Chicago and now for example I want to see NYU. It's also fun to me to browse around just to get a feel of the different facilities and such. I recall a few years ago I watched Lynchburg and Roanoke occasionally because I heard they actually drew spectators from the community at large. Anybody know if my guy at Lynchburg is still there? He had the best and coolest intro spots I've ever seen, and the the broadcasts were top-tier for D3 with like real commercials.
Even a few dedicated posters can make a big difference here, and new blood is great. You can take a team that hardly anyone talks about and folks will read what you write and develop at least a marginal interest. When I started around late 2012 no one ever talked about Kenyon, like ever, and that's partly because they had been pretty mediocre for a spell...and now a lot probably would like to see the word 'Kenyon' a lot less. But the point is you can generate some interest, and who knows, maybe even create enough interest for a recruit here and there to get your school or others you know a lot about a look.
Lynchburg treats soccer and lacrosse like most schools treat football. They are the premiere outdoor sports (no football team). And yes, the facility, crowd, and broadcasts are still top notch.
Speaking of pollster quality, these West teams are killing me. I make a big pitch for Pac Lutheran and they lose. And this week I took a chance and put Redlands in my top 20, and I'm rewarded by the Bulldogs losing at home to Chapman in a wild, west affair 5-4. Redlands was up 1-0, then down 1-2, the up 3-2, then 3-3, then up again 4-3, and lost 4-5. All nine goals scored by the 54th minute. Weird.
If New Paltz St loses to Fredonia St this weekend I am tendering my resignation to Mr. W&L.
Side note....It can be fun after there has been some jousting back and forth to meet some of the players or other posters. I met Blooter at a Tufts game and we engaged some of the newest alums, and they started howling about "here's that Kenyon guy!" After they bundled me and stuck me in a locker for 4 hours, we all went out and had a couple of beers (and all that very last part is fiction).
https://www.lynchburgsports.com/general/2021-22/releases/20210715mgwo1w
Damn, Joe Hutzler moved on from Lynchburg just this past summer.
Just love this guy...
https://www.joehutzler.com/
"Pressure is a privilege"
Now back to our regular programming.....
Friday Night Lights (except for Liberty League and SUNYAC fixtures)
One of the biggest Fridays of the season, with a full slate of UAA, SUNYAC, LL, SAA, and SCAC match-ups.
Let's start with the SAA and limit the commentary to Oglethorpe. Remember when the Stormy Petrels were 0-6 (after W&L, Emory, C-M-S, Redlands, Lynchburg, and Calvin)? And got their first win in 2021 over 2019 Final 4 program, Centre? Welp, Oglethorpe now sits at a not-so-great sounding 4-6. But they're 4-0 in conference and looking like favorites to finish the season in first place with hosting privileges for the SAA playoffs.
Prediction (and bookmark it)...the Stormy Petrels will be dancing in the NCAA tournament...and given who they have faced already, Oglethorpe will be no cupcake and could make a run to the Sweet 16.
Now let's set you up for your afternoon and evening of D3 video enjoyment.
I recommend RIT @ RPI at 4:00 pm. Huge game for both with RIT at 2-0-2 in conference and RPI 4-0. For a LL undercard, I would advise Ithaca @ Skidmore, also at 4:00 pm. The Bombers are 4-0 and trying to keep pace with RPI while the Thoroughbreds are clinging to stay relevant for a possible LL playoff spot at 1-2-1. Vassar, SLU, and Hobart are all very much in play for home field in 3v6 and 4v5 playoff games.
If you're feeling lukewarm about starting your weekend with the LL, consider one of the SUNYAC options. The best one appears to be Oneonta St @ Buffalo St. The Red Dragons will try to break out of a slump, but the Bengals at 10-3 and 3-2 in conference might have other ideas. First touch is at 4:00 pm. Or, you could treat yourself New Paltz St at Fredonia St, also at 4:00 pm. The Hawks are the heavy favorites over the Blue Devils, but New Paltz could get sacked by the PN curse.
To ease comfortably into your evening, follow up Happy Hour with apps by getting a taste of Brandeis @ Chicago at 6:30. The Maroons would seem like fairly strong favorites but they seem to follow up big wins with a letdown. There is no team in the UAA that thinks they can't beat any of the others. The Judges will be looking to show well after smarting all week from a home loss to CWRU.
Now that you're warmed up you've got two huge UAA tilts in the 7:30 time slot to choose from, flip back and forth, or, if you want to prepare for tournament season early, get two devices going at once. CMU travels to Rochester for a match that be a must-win for both. And CWRU heads down to Atlanta to take on Emory. The four squads in these two games will then switch places for Sunday...with CMU flying to Atlanta after what I would think will be a fairly long bus trip to Rochester, and CWRU will fly home from Atlanta and take a shorter bus trip to Rochester. Just a massive UAA weekend all around.
If you crave a quick-view change of pace as the evening matures, an underrated choice might be under-the-radar UW-Platteville at Loras at 8:30 The Pioneers are having a strong season at 8-2-2. Loras sits at 7-5-2 still very much in the ARC playoff hunt, and the Duhawks will hope to improve their form before heading back to conference action.
Finally, at 9:00 pm, the feature match of the day....a stunned NYU squad will be in St. Louis for a monster match-up with Wash U. The Bears no doubt wish NYU hadn't stumbled against Mt. St. Vincent, as a wounded and talented team, even one named the Violets, will be hyper-dangerous. Great test for both teams, and no one will be shocked if this one ends in yet another UAA draw.
In the SCAC, frontrunner Trinity welcomes cellar-dweller Austin for a 9:00 pm kickoff. And if you want to learn a little more about two pretty good teams you know nothing about (except of course for "the Trinity guy"), we've got Texas Lutheran at St Thomas (TX) at 8:30 pm. Set a reminder for 8:00 pm on 10/29 when Trinity will be in Colorado Springs for their regular season finale against seemingly always chasing Colorado College.
Make sure to save room for Saturday and Sunday.
How can Babson be ranked 23 nationally when they aren't even ranked in their own region?
Quote from: maineman on October 14, 2021, 09:34:11 PM
How can Babson be ranked 23 nationally when they aren't even ranked in their own region?
NEWMAC is in Region II, not Region I. Babson is ranked #2 in Region II this week in the United Soccer Coaches Regional poll, and #23 in the United Soccer Coaches national poll. MIT is ranked #1 in Region II this week.
Brandeis (UAA) is not ranked in Region II, and Region II is where Brandeis was placed in the new regional alignment system.
Coincidentally, the Brandeis women's soccer coach, Mary Shimko, chairs the United Soccer Coaches women's regional poll for Region II (thereby serving as the Region II rep on the United Soccer Coaches women's national poll) and the Brandeis men's soccer coach, Gabe Margolis, is on the NCAA DIII Men's Soccer National Tournment Committee as the chair of Region II. Coach Margolis is a non-voting rep, as chair, of the Region II NCAA Men's Soccer DIII Regional Advisory Committee this year.
I follow College Soccer because it is in my blood. I grew up around it and it was my primary focus as a kid. Plus I was an annoying kid who would just ask questions. I actually love the way it has surprisingly improved my writing skills but I also have many other different interests besides sports. This year and probably going forward I just do not have the time to follow it nationally but I make the time for Nescac Men's Soccer. I also agree with ConnAlum, like who knew about this patreon?
About Patreon... there was a flurry of posts about it back in December of 2020 and again in January of 2021. I remember them mostly being in the football forums and maybe a bit in the basketball ones. Pat was pretty subtle about it and I respect that. He put it out there and the posters mostly reinforced the idea. I know there are different tiers, but since Pat is running it, the benefits of being in the higher tiers are mainly to the parts of D3sports.com that he still runs, not the sports like soccer that have been spun off but stay connected. I freely admit I'm only at the base tier so I don't know what extras information the higher tiers get, but I'm primarily interested in keeping this bulletin board community running.
I also think that because the idea went around at a pretty dead time, it probably isn't as widely dispersed through the casual visitor and the non-football, non-basketball regulars. Either way, it's easy enough to find if you want to join now. I'm sure Pat would appreciate it.
https://www.patreon.com/d3sports
One kind of random thought I had while pondering why I'm getting more engaged with the broader D3 soccer scene:
When I first started hanging out/lurking on this board, the "now streaming" thread was kind of a big deal (this was 2017, according to my profile). So many of the games were behind paywalls back then, that being alerted to a game that was up for free was an anomaly.
At this point, other than random neutral site games (shakes fist at Hopkins-CNU being in Manassas), it's extremely rare for a game to be offline or behind a wall (at least in the region I follow). I'm able to swing through and at a minimum check out all the goals I want from any given day. Honestly, if I had a bit more time and technical skill, I could make a goals of the week... 3 or 4 years ago, that just wasn't an option.
This is really great for the promotion of the sport at this level. If I am a coach, I'm on here trying to figure out a way to capitalize more on this increased visibility.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 15, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
Honestly, if I had a bit more time and technical skill, I could make a goals of the week... 3 or 4 years ago, that just wasn't an option.
This is really great for the promotion of the sport at this level. If I am a coach, I'm on here trying to figure out a way to capitalize more on this increased visibility.
If you ever get the itch, look up a program called Wondershare. It's not free, but it's a good, solid video editor. Easy to do simple stuff, capable of doing much better stuff once you start playing with it. I use it for all kinds of videos at the martial arts school I belong to and assist at. We make videos for a bunch of different celebrations and tutorials and Wondershare is the way to go. Unfortunately, easy or not, it still can take quite a bit of time if you want to do a good job.
And I completely agree with you. We get all kinds of interest from new students who watch a random video we put in a facebook post or stumble across some of the videos on our website. A good hype video is worth it's weight in gold and I assume most good recruiting coaches have access to something these days. You'd be pretty far behind if your athletic department can't at least do that for you.
I apologize in advance, but since no one answered my Midd hockey questions, I finally looked up myself.
Midd won titles in '95, '96, '97, '98, '99, '04, '05, and '06, and runner-up in '07 (only time a runner-up). Wisc-Stevens Pt won a bunch, and in past 10 years Norwich in '10 and '17, St Norbert in 11', '12, '14, and '18, Wisc-Eau Claire in '13, Trinity (CT) in '15, Wisc-Stevens Pt in '16 and '19.
Midd has dropped in prominence with last NESCAC title in 2010.
Babson won the first one in '84, and interestingly, Union (NY), who has won a D1 title in just past few years, was the original runner-up.
I never knew that Bates is only NESCAC (I think only one) without ice hockey teams.
https://athletics.kenyon.edu/news/2021/10/14/mens-soccer-lords-soccer-raising-funds-for-fugees-family.aspx
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 14, 2021, 03:21:40 PM
After they bundled me and stuck me in a locker for 4 hours, we all went out and had a couple of beers (and all that very last part is fiction).
Speak for yourself — they got me in the parking lot on the way out. That locker was tight.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 15, 2021, 02:44:15 PM
I never knew that Bates is only NESCAC (I think only one) without ice hockey teams.
Oddly enough they do have an ice arena, and I know they have a women's club team; not sure about men.
EDIT: Yep, men too
Please donate to the therapy fund for Chicago fans. Wow. Wow. Wow.
Precincts are reporting.
Bad pass just around the 18 and a surgical strike by Brandeis gives Chicago yet another last 2.5 minutes loss after dominating possession and having a boatload of corners.
RPI goes down and a big win for RIT program. Skidmore held Ithaca to a draw.
Oneonta probably unlucky as two weather delays lead to Oneonta-Buffalo being called a final at 78th minute. Oneonta leveled at 1-1 around 76th minute and had momentum and big stats advantage.
New Paltz manages a 10-0 win at Fredonia.
Not sure what is going to happen with CMU-Rochester which presumably is in a weather delay....and if not played, how does that impact scheduled Sunday matchups?
CWRU levels with Emory late 1st half on nice set piece from about 40 yards out.
Another waning-minutes gank for Chicago. Seriously, the Maroons are turning it into an art form.
Brandeis parked the bus for ninety minutes, and despite a dozen corner attempts that were almost all picture-perfect placements and several good live-action chances, the Maroons couldn't manage to rustle the twine. So in the 87th minute the Judges keeper grabs a ball at the top of the six, gives a tremendous quick heave to a wing streaking down the left side, and Brandeis launches an ... er ... 3 on 4 counter. But, eight or nine seconds later after the counter had apparently been stopped, an implausible lateral pass by a Chicago back to Brandeis's Max Horowitz, who was standing there all alone minding his own business on the far side of the box, gave Brandeis a magic opportunity -- and Horowitz hooked it into the net to give the Judges a highly-implausible 1-0 win at Stagg.
As the Maroons colorman noted mournfully, "Smash-and-grab victory for Brandeis. Just like José Mourinho drew it up."
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 15, 2021, 08:42:44 PM
As the Maroons colorman noted mournfully, "Smash-and-grab victory for Brandeis. Just like José Mourinho drew it up."
;D
He's not my absolute favorite manager (Herr Klopp will take some beating), but you just can't hate the man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a27QF2lOpq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a27QF2lOpq4)
And CWRU creeps ahead in Atlanta.
And now 2-2.
What's the story in the Flour/Flower City?
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 15, 2021, 08:42:44 PM
Another waning-minutes gank for Chicago. Seriously, the Maroons are turning it into an art form.
Brandeis parked the bus for ninety minutes, and despite a dozen corner attempts that were almost all picture-perfect placements and several good live-action chances, the Maroons couldn't manage to rustle the twine. So in the 87th minute the Judges keeper grabs a ball at the top of the six, gives a tremendous quick heave to a wing streaking down the left side, and Brandeis launches an ... er ... 3 on 4 counter. But, eight or nine seconds later after the counter had apparently been stopped, an implausible lateral pass by a Chicago back to Brandeis's Max Horowitz, who was standing there all alone minding his own business on the far side of the box, gave Brandeis a magic opportunity -- and Horowitz hooked it into the net to give the Judges a highly-implausible 1-0 win at Stagg.
As the Maroons colorman noted mournfully, "Smash-and-grab victory for Brandeis. Just like José Mourinho drew it up."
Somehow it's not even the most brutal loss of the year. The John Carroll one takes the cake and will continue to for years to come.
Tonight proved it's better to be lucky than good. But that's soccer for you.
Case Western Reserve and Emory draw 2-2 in Atlanta.
Finally underway in Rochester.
NYU beats Wash U, 2-1, in the Gateway City.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 15, 2021, 08:57:45 PM
What's the story in the Flour/Flower City?
Thunderstorms and lightning.
PN's key games of the day...
Amherst-Tufts
GAC-St Olaf
North Central-North Park
Swat-F&M
New Paltz St-Buffalo St
Kenyon-Wabash
MIT-Wheaton (MA)
Conn Coll-Bowdoin
Midd-Colby
Kenyon at Wabash is 1-1 at end of regular time. I have the game up in the background as I get some paperwork done so not paying close attention but generally seems like pretty relentless Kenyon attack in the second half. A lot of Wabash fouls in Kenyon's attacking third, allowing some potential dangerous free kicks, but Kenyon didn't convert in regular time.
And . . . . Kenyon scores in 2nd extra period, winning 2-1.
What.A.Day! And it's not over.
Didn't see any games yet today via video because of driving to Tufts and then watching the mega-event of the day deep into 2 OTs. Will circle back to that one, but first what has caught my eye so far, slanted towards rankings shake-ups, conference races, positioning for regional rankings in a week or two.
Driving through Boston trying to watch live stats with your team down 1-0 when you check in, followed by 40+ minutes at 1-1 into 2 OTs is not recommended. But Kenyon pulled out the win on the road at a gritty Wabash 2-1. completing the gauntlet of at rival Denison, rival OWU, and then away at Wabash unscathed and 3-0. The Lords can't relax and need to keep getting better but they are in good shape for home field for the NCAC tourney as they could absorb a loss and still prevail in 1st for the regular season given the H2H advantage over OWU.
Staying in the NCAC, Bianco is determined to keep pushing Denison to improvement and a winning attitude as the Big Red go on the road and earn a strong 3-0 win at DePauw.
Yes, the curse of PN strikes again. New Paltz survived yesterday but not today as surging Buffalo St fresh off a weather-aided draw versus Oneonta grounds the Hawks, 3-1.
St Olaf continues to impress in defiance of pollster hesitancy, getting a huge win against GAC, a squad clamoring for more recognition itself. 4-2.
Hopkins surely wasn't happy dropping an odd neutral site, no video match with heavyweight, Christopher Newport, but following up with a 1-0 loss to Ursinus is not what the doctor ordered, even if this is the Bears' best season since the Civil War.
The best teams always seem to escape. Messiah comes from behind to nip Eastern in double OT, 3-2.
Nearby, Swat and F&M battle to a 2-2 draw. F&M battled back from a 2-0 deficit to level, but will be disappointed given a major stats advantage.
MIT engineers another excellent win, 3-1, at Wheaton (MA), and is the clear leader in the NEWMAC with increased national approval no doubt on the way.
C-M-S stays positive with a 2-0 victory over Whittier while fading Pac Lutheran drops another one, this time to Willamette 3-2.
Can KZoo challenge Calvin? Probably not but the Hornets are putting together a nice and blow out a Trine squad that has had some goods results. 5-1.
In the LL, RIT can't manage to pull off the road trip double, falling to Skidmore 2-1, one day after besting RPI. Vassar stays quietly strong, adding misery to SLU Nation , 2-0.
OK, as late results trickle in with some drama unfolding in the OAC, let's deal with the almighty NESCAC.
Middlebury finds the trek to Waterville unsatisfying, dropping a 2-1 contest to Colby in a huge win for the Mules. Conn College after seeming to be firing on all cylinders falls 3-1 at Bowdoin. And Wesleyan continues with their resurgent campaign, avoiding Sonny Liston's fate, and leaving Lewiston with a 3-1 tally over slumping Bates.
I'll share my impressions of the headliner in a separate post.
Okie, dokie. Amherst vs Tufts.
First...I didn't engage alums or fans from either. Great atmosphere. Both programs had their bro contingents, with Tufts having a larger one as would be expected, but both vocal and loud.
A highly competitive, entertaining match between two heavyweights. That said, the game was not attractive...at all, except for the Cano goal and another near-goal or two by Tufts also sparked by Cano who has to be the man of the match. The Amherst goal was a nice, decisive strike into the side netting where the Tufts GK had no chance, but I the chance came off a scrum in the box and was scored I believe by #7, one of the Amherst CBs.
Probably 80% of the unattractiveness was conditions-related. The wind was just windy enough to impact almost all of the play but not quite enough to game-plan around in advance. The other 20%, and I don't mean any disrespect at all, but these just aren't pretty teams....EITHER ONE OF THEM. If anything, I thought Amherst tried to play more, or at least danced with the ball more, and numerous times the Amherst offensive players tried to do too much and either ended up not getting off a shot OR getting the ball to GG. In general both teams really struggled with a getting a hold of the ball and maintaining possession, but as I think about it Tufts when they did get control did a better job of not holding too long and making quicker passes and having overall the better chances, mainly on 2-3 counters where Amherst looked unbalanced and Cano put them into a 2v1 defensive crisis. Van Brewer handled the ball some in midfield, but mostly in a very functional way. His play in the midfield was important and especially his lefty in-swinging corners and the close in set piece where he ended the contest on Aroh's head. That final play was reminiscent to me of a 4th and 1 on the goal line, and a straight handout to the fullback with a double tight end set to push through to the goal. There was no way Aroh wasn't getting ball over that line. I thought a draw would have been a fair result, but soccer c an be brutal, especially with sudden death OTs. Tufts overall may have had more clean chances, especially in the second via Cano, and #3 I'm sure will dream about the chance he probably should have finished, but Amherst had chances too and nearly scored on what looked like was almost a Tufts GK own goal. I thought Amherst had the better of the play in the 1st half while Tufts turned the tables in the 2nd. Amherst did have a couple of spells of leveling the game back out again, and had Tufts under pressure a couple of times in the OTs.
So, the NPOY candidates. The game was 23 minutes in and I thought to myself "how come GG isn't playing?" I then realized he was out there and I had not noticed him even once (although I saw in the stats PbP that he logged a shot in the first 10 minutes). I'm not tactically smart enough to know if Tufts did anything special but GG went for long stretches of having no impact. He seemed to try and get more involved as the game progressed and as the game got deeper into the 2nd half he both had a couple of half-chances and seemed to become more frustrated with a couple of teammates who were not getting him the ball. #10 and #23 had some nice moments and created some danger but too often they didn't pull the trigger themselves and did not get the ball to GG and usually lost the ball in the end. Both of those guys are good players and I thought #10 was very good. #23 has obvious talent, but either tries to do too much or disappears. I'm sort of surprised that he played so many minutes because (and this is just my impression as a layman) for long stretches I didn't think he really competed. GG has a quality to his game and touches, even in bad conditions, but I had to really pay attention. He did not have nearly the impact I expected. Wonder if they need Nate from Ted Lasso on the staff because it seems that if he is getting so little service they maybe need to invert him and #10 or #23 and allow him to set the table for them or himself. Now Aroh. He got the GW. Enough said, right? I thought he also was mostly invisible, although because of his size there is no way not to notice him. Again, maybe the conditions. But he did not control this game. I've seen him control games on video, so I don't know. Maybe Amherst's game plan had something to do with it. Before I forget, #8 for Tufts was very good, and I thought Amherst #3 (who got knocked around a ton) played his heart out. Johnson (#5) didn't have his usual impact with the long throws, and I don't know if that was wind-related or not enough room on the sidelines or what. The Amherst GK, I guess their backup for the most part was fine and is very athletic, BUT, I don't know what he was doing on the Cano goal as he got caught way, way out and realized too late a streaking 2v1 was coming. He tried to get back, and Cano probably would have scored anyway.
Now the mildly spicy stuff. I thought Tufts looked more like Amherst supposedly always looks than Amherst did. Part of that is just raw size and a high level of athleticism. Tufts is MUCH bigger than Amherst. That's obviously Tufts, but I don't recall seeing a Amherst team that wasn't bigger. Where are the Caracas twins when you need them? Or a Dane Lind. At any rate, Tufts has a clear physical advantage, and if they have that over any Amherst team then any other team in D3 is going to find the Jumbos difficult to contend with. There must be a rule at Tufts that if you don't get stuck in then you aren't playing. I thought that was Amherst. FOULS....Tufts 21, Amherst 10. Otherwise the stats basically even. And finally, not that the Mammoths were choir boys, but the Jumbos complained and whined A LOT...like seemingly after every call.
But they're like the Patriots. Not the current version of the Patriots...but the one that a lot of folks found tough to root for. Repeated winning brings envy...just the way it is.
And I'll say yet again, it will take a massive effort from a very good, talented team that can approximate matching Tufts physically to knock them out again this year.
North Park got a golden goal 75 seconds into overtime to knock North Central from the ranks of the unbeatens, 2-1.
Submitted my fan poll votes already.
Maybe a mirage but the distance between the top 3 and the rest of the field seems massive.
Trinity just by default has to slot in at #4 but at least that feels right.
And then....no one deserved to be in the #5 spot or even #5-#9 or so imo. A lot of big moves OUT and IN.
With the creation of 10 regions this year, how is the tournament structured?
Quote from: Ejay on October 18, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
With the creation of 10 regions this year, how is the tournament structured?
I suspect it will involve as little travel as they can possibly get away with. Dollars spent are going to be at a minimum for a while, and maybe even more so with the new NCAA Constitution coming up. I don't think the switch to 10 regions will be all that significant. It's not like the bracket was regionally constrained in the past. Just look for a few more odd placements to make it as inexpensive as possible.
Quote from: Ejay on October 18, 2021, 10:06:27 AM
With the creation of 10 regions this year, how is the tournament structured?
The pre-championship manual (https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/championships/sports/soccer/d3/common/2021-22D3XSO_PreChampManual.pdf) can answer a lot of questions like these :)
Three sets of regional rankings come out weekly, starting this Wednesday. Teams to be ranked per region:
Region I - 9
Region II - 7
Region III - 8
Region IV - 7
Region V - 9
Region VI - 10
Region VII - 10
Region VIII - 9
Region IX - 9
Region X - 7
There are a total of 64 teams selected; 43 spots to conference winners, 21 to other teams ("Pool C" bids)
For each of the 21 selection rounds, you take the top non-conference winning team from each region, evaluate using the criteria in the manual (p.22-23), and select the top team from those ten. The next team in that region is promoted "to the table" to be evaluated against the other nine in succeeding rounds, rinse and repeat until all 21 have been selected. If you don't make the final regional ranking it's pretty much a given you won't be selected.
First and second round games are held the weekend of Nov 12-14, generally at the "best" program in a local area, but travel costs factor in. There will be eight four-team sectionals, Nov 19-21, not ten, and again the host is a combination of "best" and "most cost-effective to the NCAA". Also, if a school qualifies to host both men's and women's competition on a particular weekend, only one can be held (1st/2nd round, women have priority, sectionals, men do in an odd year). Semis (Dec 3) and final (Dec. 4) will be in Greensboro, NC.
I can't see how the move from 8 to 10 regions as part of the regional re-alignment will make any difference to the tournament structure. You have to go back, what? over two decades to the time before the expanded bracket and automatic-qualifiers to find equal representation from each region and quadrants that directly corresponded to the regional alignments. But since that time, 1st/2nd Round pods can and often have had teams from 2 or 3 regions--less so west of the Mississippi, more so in the mid-atlantic where there's probably been instances of 4 regions being represented in a pod. Given the at-large selection process and bracket-building flexibility that committee has, the impact of the regional re-alignment should be zero on the tournament structure and minimal on the at-large selections.
W&L hosts Roanoke tomorrow night. Roanoke has had an atypical rough patch, with only 2 wins in the last month, but I suspect they will give the Generals their best shot. Then the Generals host R-MC over the weekend before ending the regular season at Va Wesleyan.
Interestingly in the ODAC right now there are 4 teams without a conference loss. W&L (6-0), Randolph (4-0-2), R-MC (3-0-3) and Va Wes (3-0-3). W&L sits top of the table, Randolph sits 3rd behind Lynchburg (5-1), and then R-MC and Va Wes in 4th. Because of the ODAC's unbalanced schedule ridiculousness, Randolph will not face W&L in the regular season. They do have Lynchburg at home, Roanoke, and Ferrum (1-5), still to face on the road. Lynchburg doesn't face R-MC or Va Wes this regular season.
Regardless, W&L will close out the season with the current 6th place ODAC team, Roanoke, and then the current T-4 teams. Randolph gets the current 2nd, 5th, and T-10 teams.
It will be interesting to see what the committee makes of Randolph. Their schedule leaves a lot to be desired. I'd say their best win right now is Averett, and their best results might be the pair of ties with R-MC and Va Wes. So the game against Lynchburg is huge.
Quote from: jknezek on October 19, 2021, 10:52:13 AM
W&L hosts Roanoke tomorrow night. Roanoke has had an atypical rough patch, with only 2 wins in the last month, but I suspect they will give the Generals their best shot. Then the Generals host R-MC over the weekend before ending the regular season at Va Wesleyan.
Interestingly in the ODAC right now there are 4 teams without a conference loss. W&L (6-0), Randolph (4-0-2), R-MC (3-0-3) and Va Wes (3-0-3). W&L sits top of the table, Randolph sits 3rd behind Lynchburg (5-1), and then R-MC and Va Wes in 4th. Because of the ODAC's unbalanced schedule ridiculousness, Randolph will not face W&L in the regular season. They do have Lynchburg at home, Roanoke, and Ferrum (1-5), still to face on the road. Lynchburg doesn't face R-MC or Va Wes this regular season.
Regardless, W&L will close out the season with the current 6th place ODAC team, Roanoke, and then the current T-4 teams. Randolph gets the current 2nd, 5th, and T-10 teams.
It will be interesting to see what the committee makes of Randolph. Their schedule leaves a lot to be desired. I'd say their best win right now is Averett, and their best results might be the pair of ties with R-MC and Va Wes. So the game against Lynchburg is huge.
The short answer is that the WildCats will not make the tournament without winning the ODAC tournament.
In 2013 Randolph was 13-0-1 before lost to Lynchburg and went into ODAC title match with VA Wes 17-1-1. Lost to VA Wes in that game 2-1 in OT. So ended season 17-2-1. Did not get a at-large bid even though some teams like Catholic and Misericordia (sp?) did.
Only NCAA appearance was in 2011 when won ODAC tournament and first two NCAA games before bowing out in Sweet 16 to TX-Tyler.
The Randolph SoS is likely to be quite low and I don't see any likely ranked wins. Not even clear that Lynchburg will be regionally ranked. Perhaps the re-alignment will help with 10 slots for Region VI, which seems like a plus for ODAC and other teams in South (except for UWW!) since before iirc ODAC teams were competing with South Atlantic powerhouses which typically have had SoS and RvR advantages.
2013 Pool C Berths:
Brandeis
Carnegie Mellon
Catholic
Dickinson
Gordon
Gustavus Adolphus
Kenyon
Luther
MIT
Messiah
Misericordia
Montclair State
Oberlin
Roger Williams
Rutgers-Newark
Salisbury
Wartburg
Williams
Christian Shirk just published this primer on NCAA regional rankings and the selection process: https://d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2021/the-rankings-that-matter
I'll hedge just a bit on Randolph because after looking at Reg VI, there are going to be teams ranked that no one expects. It's hard to come up with 10.
W&L, Emory, CNU, UWW, VA Wes, Maryville, Oglethorpe?, Roanoke?, Lynchburg?, Randolph?, Berry?, Centre?, Mary Washington?, Randolph-Macon?, Rhodes?
That's 15 casting a very generous net and I may have missed a couple but in prior years probably only 3-4 of those or less would be ranked.
Again, iirc, even in some recent years W&L, Lynchburg and/or Roanoke struggled to squeeze into the #6 or #7 slot in the prior South Atlantic rankings....and Maryville with a perennially strong record but very low SoS usually didn't get in the rankings.
I usually don't quibble much with the D3 poll.
I've noted before the staying power of some schools. Some have said Calvin is down and on cue there they are at #8. Amherst actually moves up a spot to #7, which seems fine given an away 2OT loss to Tufts. But Chicago moves UP two spots to #11 after a home loss to Brandeis and sitting at 9-4-1 (and yeah, I understand Chicago has a top SoS). OWU only drops two spots to #6. Wash U didn't fall much. NYU lost TWICE and only fell to #14.
My biggest quibble though is probably St. Olaf (13-1-1) only at #19 while there's Hope still in the top 20 at #18 after a draw and sitting at 9-2-2. I realize many probably don't even know where St Olaf is but imo they deserve a top 10 ranking.
And after not having Kenyon and North Park in my own poll at all until this week imo both should be several spots higher.
And still minimal love for MIT and none for Vassar.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 19, 2021, 11:23:44 AM
Christian Shirk just published this primer on NCAA regional rankings and the selection process: https://d3soccer.com/columns/christan-shirk/2021/the-rankings-that-matter
That's a really helpful refresher for someone like me. I started in on this board 4 years ago, and never really got a firm grasp on things (not all that committed to the cause, frankly) and then completely lost the plot last year (obviously).
Anyways, it's actually not all that complicated and pretty transparent. Was having a chat on a Hopkins message board, lamenting what it was like back when only 12-16 were getting in.
Saw this little teaser at the end:
[Editor's Note:] The discussion above is primarily drawn from many years of observation and study of the men's at-large selections. In 2019, after the third weekly rankings were posted, we published an in-depth analysis of the women's at-large selections from 2011 through 2018 which corroborate these points. We hope to replicate that study for the men's side and publish in conjunction with the release of the third weekly rankings this season.Yes please!
I'm gonna try and watch some of Messiah tonight, but the headliners this evening would seem to be Kalamazoo at Calvin and Montclair St at RPI. KZoo has the same record as Hope and maybe 1-2 less good wins, but comparatively KZoo has flown well below the radar of national attention (and I don't think featured in either RV category of the two polls).
A likely entertaining but head-scratching encounter puts Wheaton (Ill) @ Rutgers-Newark. Wouldn't be that surprising in the first or second week of the season but an odd trip at this juncture.
Tomorrow we've got some big conference match-ups that could determine regular season champs and home field for tournaments...the main event has got to be Otterbein at still disrespected (and unbeaten) Wilmington in an OAC showdown. Luther heads to Dubuque to play Dubuque with ARC bragging rights on the line. And Rose Hulman goes to Hanover where those two yet again are neck and neck in the HCAC.
Elsewhere tomorrow, I'm circling Wesleyan at Springfield, Swat at Wash Coll, F&M at Haverford, Rowan at Kean, Dominican at North Central, Buffalo St at Hobart, WPI at Amherst, the ODAC clashes between Virginia Wesleyan and Randolph-Macon and Lynchburg at cross-town Randolph. Salem St at Wheaton (MA) is a sleeper pick, and I'm curious to see if Ursinus can keep the ball rolling vs Muhlenberg. And of course don't forget the late game with Pomona-Pitzer at C-M-S.
LOL. OK, already saw enough of the Falcons. Difference between a bball player who can pass to teammates vs the special ones who put the pass right in the teammate's shooting pocket or throws the ball ahead so teammate doesn't have to break stride and/or sees 4-5 passes ahead.
Haven't seen this often. MSU has free kick from about 22-23 yards out, players tries to rip it right through the wall and wall does its job blocking the shot, ball richochets back to kicker who then buries it in back of the net.
MSU 1 RPI 0 ...5-6 min left.
And of course....Calvin wins in OT. KZoo is good, though.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 19, 2021, 08:58:46 PM
Haven't seen this often. MSU has free kick from about 22-23 yards out, players tries to rip it right through the wall and wall does its job blocking the shot, ball richochets back to kicker who then buries it in back of the net.
MSU 1 RPI 0 ...5-6 min left.
That player was Amer Lukovic. A freshman HS All-American who was originally committed to Rutgers. He now has 16 goals in 16 games.
Quote from: Ejay on October 20, 2021, 07:26:25 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 19, 2021, 08:58:46 PM
Haven't seen this often. MSU has free kick from about 22-23 yards out, players tries to rip it right through the wall and wall does its job blocking the shot, ball richochets back to kicker who then buries it in back of the net.
MSU 1 RPI 0 ...5-6 min left.
That player was Amer Lukovic. A freshman HS All-American who was originally committed to Rutgers. He now has 16 goals in 16 games.
If that's the center forward with a bomb of a left foot, he was very good. You could tell his quality and how dangerous he could be.
Crazy start to the Wilmington v. Otterbein match. Already 1-1 less than 15 minutes in with Otterbein hitting another off the post and Wilmington with some solid chances of their own. Very back and forth game. Think Wilmington deserves just as much national recognition as Otterbein.
W&L down 1-0 at the half to Roanoke. I picked up about 20 minutes in. Didn't see the goal or a PK the Generals apparently hit into the keeper early. What I have seen is a Roanoke team very well organized in defense, but I can count in low minutes any kind of possession in W&L's half. The Generals, on the other hand just not able to open the lock. The last pass won'tconnect or the shot is at the keeper. They look out of synch. Some of that is obviously the defense, but it needs to be straightened out at halftime or it will be a sad night in Lexington.
Won't be able to catch the 2nd half but Otterbein is now up 2-1. Wilmington had another shot off the post too...Def an exciting game to watch
After 18 shots the Generals finally get an equalizer in the 74th minute. I suspect Roanoke will continue to keep 9 players inside the 18 to play for a tie. It's hard to watch.
Ends 1-1 in Lexington. W&L takes 33 shots, 11 on goal and only score once. The missed PK is big. Roanoke got 5 shots and scored on the only one they put on frame. 6 corners for the Generals, 1 for the Maroons. Roanoke held a great defensive shape all night qith 8 or 9 players back. W&L got through enough, but the chances were just not finished.
Completely agree with your assessment.
As predicted in the Fan Poll thread earlier W&L already dropping points in this slate of games v. Roanoke, Randolph-Macon and VA Wesleyan. Credits to Roanoke for holding them out to a draw tonight...W&L are an extremely talented side but they just haven't proven to me they deserve the #1 national ranking. I think they've been a bit overrated all year. Now they go up against two other top-half teams in the ODAC and need all 6 points to remain in Top 5-10 contention imo. Sounds like there are some W&L supporters on the board so good luck to them.
Also saw Otterbein beat Wilmington 3-2 in a game that easily could've gone either way. Stats were even everywhere besides Otterbein being ahead 6-1 in corner kicks. I'm sticking with my opinion that Wilmington is still a Top 20-25 squad at the moment and remain underrated nationally.
Saw Cortland scored off a nice free kick v. Oneonta to beat them 1-0. Important W since they'll be riding that momentum into their game v. New Paltz tomorrow. Oneonta all over Cortland in the last 10 but couldn't generate anything...they've been dropping lots of games recently.
Lots of key matchups this Saturday --
Cortland v. New Paltz
Tufts v. Conn College
Montclair State v. Rowan
Calvin v. Hope
Chicago v. North Park
Christopher Newport v. Mary Washington
MIT v. Babson
RPI v. Ithaca
Wabash v. Ohio Wesleyan
Wheaton MA v. Coast Guard
And then there were none....
Trinity (TX) held to a 1-1 draw in San Antonio last night, and now there are zero unbeaten, untied teams in D3. St Thomas (TX) leveled in the 75th minute via a PK. St Thomas had 7 cards compared to 1 for Trinity.
As an aside, is there a reason there isn't a link that works on the site for St. Thomas? Are they provisional D3? Or now NAIA?
Same questions for UW-Platteville that comes up blank when you click on the link, and I can't find UW-Platteville affiliated with any conference or listed with Independents.
In the you don't know much about them but should category...
Unusual for a NESCAC to need/deserve more media attention, and Mr.Right certainly does his part, but I don't know anyone who saw this Wesleyan season coming. Prospects of course can unravel quickly, but the Cardinals are 9-2-2 (4-2-2) and regionally ranked. If selections were being made today I'd guess Wesleyan would earn a Pool C. They have two regular season game left, both at home...today with Hamilton and then Conn Coll. They need to win at least one of those. They may end up short on ranked wins, unless Bowdoin can snare a ranking and in that sense a win over Conn would be far more valuable than one over Hamilton. They do have the draw with Amherst. It's possible Wes will benefit on RvR from a weak Region II but who knows if Springfield and Coast Guard will hold on to a regional ranking. A first round win in the NESCAC tourney almost might be vital (and perhaps another chance for a ranked win).
Anybody got the low-down on Ithaca? Only 7-4-4 overall but 5-0-1 in the topsy-turvy Liberty League.
MIT seems too unknown for a 12-2-1 team that is regionally ranked and as of today holds ranked wins over Wheaton (MA), Springfield and Coast Guard. Thye're playing a good Babson team now and close with a tough WPI before the NEWMAC tourney. Some are still questioning if MIT is legit, but they showed well in a 1-0 loss to Tufts early in the season.
Other little advertised, under the radar teams from my pov are Vassar, amazingly still St Olaf, C-M-S, Redlands, Dubuque, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Gettysburg, UW-Platteville, St Joseph's (ME), and surprisingly, frequent NJAC front-runners, Rowan and Rutgers-Newark.
I was very impressed by both Wesleyan and MIT in their losses to Tufts. MIT was opening night so I was kind of writing off the game. NESCAC teams can struggle in their openers given it is usually their opponents third game of the season. But MIT has backed up that performance the rest of the season to prove it was not a fluke.
In the Wesleyan game Tufts scored two goals in like 3 minutes early in the second half and I thought they were going to open the flood gates. But Wesleyan recovered, scored a goal to cut the deficit, and played really well the final 25 minutes. They never really threatened to equalize but it was a solid performance that showed a very strong mentality.
I'm happy to see Wesleyan turn it around after a few down years. Coach Wheeler was one of the nicest coaches I interacted with. My first game back from an injury my sophomore year was against Wes and as I subbed in he checked in to see how I was doing and to wish me luck. I was impressed that he knew about this and reached out considering he had never recruited me or spoken to me before.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 23, 2021, 02:33:09 PM
I was very impressed by both Wesleyan and MIT in their losses to Tufts. MIT was opening night so I was kind of writing off the game. NESCAC teams can struggle in their openers given it is usually their opponents third game of the season. But MIT has backed up that performance the rest of the season to prove it was not a fluke.
In the Wesleyan game Tufts scored two goals in like 3 minutes early in the second half and I thought they were going to open the flood gates. But Wesleyan recovered, scored a goal to cut the deficit, and played really well the final 25 minutes. They never really threatened to equalize but it was a solid performance that showed a very strong mentality.
I'm happy to see Wesleyan turn it around after a few down years. Coach Wheeler was one of the nicest coaches I interacted with. My first game back from an injury my sophomore year was against Wes and as I subbed in he checked in to see how I was doing and to wish me luck. I was impressed that he knew about this and reached out considering he had never recruited me or spoken to me before.
I second that on Wheeler. Way past the normal recruiting window in late December or January of my son's senior year he sent a dozen or so coaches an email and a 10 minute tape he put together himself, and Wheeler responded right away, clearly had watched the tape and was very complimentary, and just was classy especially since he wasn't going to pursue my kid that late but invited him to tryout if he went there. Pilger at Trinity was funny because his main focus was an interest in the music in the video. The Union coach just freaked because my son was very upfront with everyone about being gene positive (but disease negative) for a cardiac condition I have associated with sudden death in young athletes, and as I've noted before the Colby coach was very engaging, maintained contact, and after son accepted offered to him go thru preseason but wouldn't commit to a spot.
And here comes Calvin. Classic Knights....up 2-0 at half on Hope on only 3 shots while Hope had 5 shots.
Montclair vs Rowan is getting super chippy. Ref trying to maintain control but it's slipping away. Rowan already down to 10 men and Montclair just scored to go up 1-0 after a great save by GK just 45 secs before.
2-0.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 23, 2021, 07:59:03 PM
And here comes Calvin. Classic Knights....up 2-0 at half on Hope on only 3 shots while Hope had 5 shots.
Calvin made Hope look pedestrian. While the stats looked pretty even, the general feel of game is that Calvin looked more dangerous than Hope. Hope seems disciplined and strong tactically. But they never seem to break through in the final third. On the other hand, Calvin seems as dangerous and strong as ever. And they can finish.
3-0 final. 2-0 most of the game and Calvin scored on a counter in the final few minutes while Hope was pressing. Hope missed a pk in the final minutes. Looks like there was a good crowd in the stands...nice to see a good rivalry.
Chicago beat North Park, 1-0. The lone goal came 33 seconds before halftime, when Gillespie of UC took a deep-angle shot that was going slightly off-frame, but NPU keeper Sward got his arm out to block it in case it was ticketed to carom off of the far post and into the net. His arm was extended out far enough to make the ball too difficult for him to grab, and it bounced off of his wrist and right to UC's Lane on the far side of the box, who pounded home the rebound for the game-winner. It's easy to blame Sward using 20/20 hindsight, but, given the situation and the angle, I think that most keepers would've stuck out their arms to stop the shot as Sward did, just to be on the safe side.
Both teams had plenty of chances, but I thought that the Maroons played better than did the Vikings, especially in transition. I commented on the air that I thought the difference was that Chicago, with its absurdly difficult schedule and its ongoing gauntlet of UAA contests, looked like a team ready to play the #12 team in the country, while NPU, which played a good non-conference schedule but has spent the better part of a month now rolling through a CCIW that is only a middling men's soccer league even in the best of times and is certainly down this season even from that, did not look like a team ready to play the #11 team in the country.
Some random thoughts.... :)
Region I-- Wesleyan defeated Hamilton, 3-1, on Wesleyan's Senior Day yesterday, and the Cardinals get to host the NESCAC first place team, Connecticut College, in Middletown, CT on Tuesday in their last regular season game before the NESCAC tournament opens on Saturday. Conn College gets home field advantage throughout the NESCAC tournament with a win on Tuesday due to the Camels's victory over Tufts yesterday.
Region II-- Based on looking at the resumes of the top 2 Commonwealth Coast teams, (Roger Williams and Endicott), the MASCAC top team (Salem State), and the NECC top team (Eastern Nazarene), and comparing those resumes to the Springfield and Coast Guard resumes, I believe that it is more likely than not that the 6 NEWMAC teams that are listed this week in the first week's Region II rankings will remain the same in the Week 3 rankings based on the head to head results of Roger Williams, Endicott, Salem State, and Eastern Nazarene vs the NEWMAC's top 6 teams. Of those 4 teams that I listed outside of NEWMAC, only Eastern Nazarene has a head to head win over a NEWMAC top 6 team (Wheaton (MA)), and both Springfield and Coast Guard beat Wheaton (MA) this season as well. Roger Williams lost vs Wheaton (MA), MIT, and WPI. Endicott lost vs Wheaton (MA), WPI, MIT, and Springfield. Salem State lost vs Wheaton (MA). At the very least, I believe that it is more likely than not that Springfield and Coast Guard will be regionally ranked in Region II when the Week 3 rankings get released.
Salem State is the only MASCAC team with a winning percentage above .500.
Western New England is currently in 8th place in the Commonwealth Coast Conference with 1 game left to play on Tuesday. :) The CCC tournament field is set with Nichols and UNE failing to qualify for the CCC playoffs, but Western New England could be playing in the #7/#8 game this Thursday and would need 4 knock-out wins to qualify for the NCAAs.
Region III-- Mount St Vincent, who upset NYU earlier this season, clinched the #2 seed in the Skyline Conference tournament last night thanks to a 2-1 win at Sarah Lawrence combined with a Manhattanville 3-0 win over Mount St Mary. Mt St Vincent has a 3 pt lead over Mt St Mary for 2nd place with 1 game left, and the CMSV Dolphins defeated Mount St Mary in Skyline Conference play earlier this season. Manhattanville just needs 1 point on Tuesday over Old Westbury to clinch the #1 seed in the Skyline Conference tournament. Both Manhattanville and Mount St Vincent will get first round byes on Saturday's first round and will play their semifinal games at home on Wednesday, November 3.
Update--D3Soccer.com's website incorrectly shows the Mount St Vincent v Sarah Lawrence contest as a Sarah Lawrence 2-1 win. That is probably due to the way that Sarah Lawrence displayed their live stats of the match-- they had the CMSV lineup listed as Sarah Lawrence and vice versa in the live stats. The final box score as posted on the Mt St Vincent, Sarah Lawrence, and Skyline Conference websites accurately shows the final score as a Mt St Vincent 2-1 win over Sarah Lawrence. Mt St Vincent's record is 11-1-2.
Region VI-- Piedmont's regular season got extended a few days. The Lions were unable to play Covenant yesterday due to travel issues, and are scheduled to play their rescheduled match tomorrow. However, Piedmont was able to get the help they needed to stay alive for a playoff spot in the USA South conference tournament, thanks to both Huntingdon and LaGrange losing their games.
In particular, Brevard, who entered yesterday's game vs LaGrange needing a win to qualify for the USA South tournament, defeated LaGrange, 1-0 yesterday. In the process, Brevard qualified for the conference tournament, and LaGrange's season comes to an end this week.
If Piedmont gets 3 points at Covenant on Monday, the Lions will clinch the #3 seed in the West Division and will play Covenant again at NC Wesleyan (#2 in East Division) on Saturday's opening round. Brevard (West #4) would play at Maryville (TN) (West #1) William Peace (#1 in East Division), and Huntingdon's season would be over. If Covenant ties or wins vs Piedmont on Monday, then Piedmont's season would be over; Huntingdon (West #4) would play at Maryville (TN) William Peace and Brevard (#3 seed in West Division) would play at NC Wesleyan in the opening round of the USA South Conference tournament.
9:17 AM Eastern October 25 update-- In the USA South Conference Tournament first round on Saturday, October 30, Averett (#4 in East Division) travels to Maryville (TN) (#1 in West Division), and Greensboro (#3 in East Division) plays at Covenant (#2 in West Division) The first round of the USA South Conference Tournament is the first time this year where the USA South teams who qualified for the conference tournament play across divisions.
Update-- The start time of the match between Piedmont and Covenant is at 6 PM Eastern Monday Oct 25 (as of this update-- the match is less than 12 hours away), and links to the match are on the D3Soccer.com website.
Monday, Oct. 25-- 6:35 PM Eastern update-- It looks like Piedmont's season will be ending tonight. Covenant is already up 2-0 on the Lions in the 32nd minute. Huntingdon must be breathing a sigh of relief right now-- the Hawks lost to Maryville (TN) on Saturday by 8 goals (10-2 Maryville win)-- and yet it looks Huntingdon will still be able to qualify for the USA South Tournament as the West Division's #4 seed with a trip to William Peace on Saturday.
Monday Oct. 25-- 7:16 PM Eastern update-- Piedmont's season will end tonight. Covenant is up 3-0 in the 61st minute, and there doesn't seem to be any indication that the Lions will be able to score 3 goals in the rest of the second half to send this match to extra time. Assuming this scoreline stands, Piedmont's season will end at 6 wins and 10 losses (and a 6th place finish in the USA South West Division).
Monday Oct 25-- 7:50 PM Eastern update-- Final: Covenant 4, Piedmont 1 and the Covenant Scots celebrate by playing the famous "Shipping Up to Boston" song by the Dropkick Murphys over their PA system.
I've been watching some of Colorado Coll at St Thomas in Houston that headed into OT 1-1. Impressive, huge field with apparently room for 3200 and sometimes USMNT and USWNT maybe train there, and they use another facility that is the training ground for Houston MLS and NWLS teams. Anyway, game like some other West Coast and Trinity games seems very wide open with multiple scoring chances on both ends. Both teams should have scored several times. Wonder if the more open, offensive playing style hurts these West region teams when they get to NCAA. There's clearly a lot of skill and offensive prowess out there.
St Thomas misses on a PK in 1st OT. Didn't see foul but St T player down in box for long time which maybe froze the PK taker. CC comes down and almost immediately scores on other end.
And finally after like 5th breakaway that CC kept giving up repeatedly St Thomas gets one to go in. So many chances both ways, but more to St Thomas.
Good passing, some good skill, but overall feel of the game was more like a good pickup, full-court bball game compared to what many of us are used to.
I admit up front that I am not a licensed, board-certified meteorologist, but the forecast for Eastern, Southeastern, and probably most of Massachusetts looks grim. Up to 80 mph wind gust projected on the New England coast and loads and loads of rain. You know it's bad when they start talking about a bomb cyclone. I'll let others speak to their specific areas but indications are that much of the Atlantic coast and I would assume a good ways inland in PA, Jersey, NY, Maine, and maybe more are in for a significant weather event.
Sticking with Massachusetts, Tuesday AND Wednesday appear to be unplayable conditions. Even Thursday I would think games would be limited to turf fields and there may be downed power lines and power outages. Then there appears to be a very good chance for significant rain and wind again over the weekend. I wouldn't be surprised to see weekend games get moved to Monday/Tuesday, and again, grass fields may not be playable yet.
Subtle shakeup in the rankings coming from d3soccer.com earlier today, featuring a new #1. Thoughts on this ranking board juxtaposed to the impending new pool soon to come from USC?
Most people on this board are bigger fans of the D3soccer poll than the USC poll. I suspect W&L will have fallen out of the top spot in both polls, but not very far from the top spot.
The D3 poll seems more inconsistent and a little more arbitrary than usual....OWU moving from #6 to #3 while Kenyon barely budges, Montclair actually dropping two spots to #7, Wash U going from #16 to #11 based on I'm not sure what, and C-M-S dropping from #10 to #13 with no blemishes. Imo Otterbein and St Olaf continue to be disrespected, and MIT can't even crack the top 25 (along with Wesleyan, Redlands).
Some comments from less than 2 miles from the Paul Revere Heritage Site as the noreaster is developing.... :D
1.) Hopefully, we can get in all of the NESCAC and Commonwealth Coast Conference games in today (both men and women) before the storm really starts whipping up the wind through the overnight hours....
2.) Gamesites for NESCAC today are: Middletown, CT; Amherst, MA; Williamstown, MA; Brunswick, ME; and Lewiston, ME.
3.) Gamesites for Commonwealth Coast Conference today are: Bristol, RI (RWU hosting Suffolk); Dudley, MA (Nichols hosting Endicott); Milton, MA (Curry hosting Gordon); Biddeford, ME (UNE hosting Salve Regina), and Boston, MA (Wentworth hosting Western New England.)
It is more crucial to get most if not all of the CCC games played today before the CCC tournament starts on Thursday with the #7 and #8 seeds playing against each other in an opening round game to see who would face the #2 seed on Saturday. The #1 seed in the CCC gets to enter the tournament in the semifinal round, while seeds #2 through #6 play in quarterfinal action on Saturday.
Wentworth Western New England is currently the #8 seed and would play at either Suffolk or Wentworth on Thursday.
Nichols and University of New England's seasons end today-- Neither qualified for the CCC tournament.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
The D3 poll seems more inconsistent and a little more arbitrary than usual....OWU moving from #6 to #3 while Kenyon barely budges, Montclair actually dropping two spots to #7, Wash U going from #16 to #11 based on I'm not sure what, and C-M-S dropping from #10 to #13 with no blemishes. Imo Otterbein and St Olaf continue to be disrespected, and MIT can't even crack the top 25 (along with Wesleyan, Redlands).
Agreed. Why is Babson at 8-4 ranked 21 while Conn. is 25 in the week that Conn beat national champs Tufts? Babson lost to Williams and Tufts, though in OT. Hasn't beaten or tied any ranked team.
Note that MIT is ranked 6 here.
Quote from: SlideTackle on October 26, 2021, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
The D3 poll seems more inconsistent and a little more arbitrary than usual....OWU moving from #6 to #3 while Kenyon barely budges, Montclair actually dropping two spots to #7, Wash U going from #16 to #11 based on I'm not sure what, and C-M-S dropping from #10 to #13 with no blemishes. Imo Otterbein and St Olaf continue to be disrespected, and MIT can't even crack the top 25 (along with Wesleyan, Redlands).
Agreed. Why is Babson at 8-4 ranked 21 while Conn. is 25 in the week that Conn beat national champs Tufts? Babson lost to Williams and Tufts, though in OT. Hasn't beaten or tied any ranked team.
Note that MIT is ranked 6 here.
You're talking about the coach poll which imo almost always is strange. I meant the D3soccer.com poll which usually seems pretty on target and rational.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 03:43:15 PM
Quote from: SlideTackle on October 26, 2021, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 01:58:20 PM
The D3 poll seems more inconsistent and a little more arbitrary than usual....OWU moving from #6 to #3 while Kenyon barely budges, Montclair actually dropping two spots to #7, Wash U going from #16 to #11 based on I'm not sure what, and C-M-S dropping from #10 to #13 with no blemishes. Imo Otterbein and St Olaf continue to be disrespected, and MIT can't even crack the top 25 (along with Wesleyan, Redlands).
Agreed. Why is Babson at 8-4 ranked 21 while Conn. is 25 in the week that Conn beat national champs Tufts? Babson lost to Williams and Tufts, though in OT. Hasn't beaten or tied any ranked team.
Note that MIT is ranked 6 here.
You're talking about the coach poll which imo almost always is strange. I meant the D3soccer.com poll which usually seems pretty on target and rational.
Sorry about that. The poll is generally rational. No Babson in this one. Not even a vote.
Washington and Lee 3 - 1 over Virginia Wesleyan.
I was gonna post this in NESCAC thread but seems relevant here.
Tufts and Amherst have won five out of the last six national titles. FOUR of those (3 from Tufts, the one from Amherst) happened after quarterfinal losses/failure to advance in NESCAC tourney. Is that a fluke? Maybe. One would think a team would lose some momentum, but perhaps that is outweighed by the rest, recovery from injuries, refocusing, and maybe most importantly not going through the stress of two additional high intensity games.
The only time Tufts won the title after winning the NESCAC tourney was the last time, in 2019, when they were one of if not the favorite throughout the season. The only other time they won the NESCAC tourney was in 2017, and Tufts lost at home in the Elite 8 to Brandeis on an OT goal.
They lost in the NESCAC quarters a 4th time in the last six seasons in 2015 but lost in the Sweet 16.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 10:25:33 PM
They lost in the NESCAC quarters a 4th time in the last six seasons in 2015 but lost in the Sweet 16.
To Kenyon, of course ;)
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 26, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 10:25:33 PM
They lost in the NESCAC quarters a 4th time in the last six seasons in 2015 but lost in the Sweet 16.
To Kenyon, of course ;)
Wow. I did a little research and you're right!
Since 2014 the Jumbos have lost a total of two NCAA tourney games...one to the Lords and one to Brandeis. And it's a testament to the depth of the program's confidence that they are convinced they shouldn't have lost either of those years.
Put another way, since 2014 Tufts' NCAA tournament record is 25-2-2.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 11:05:11 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 26, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 10:25:33 PM
They lost in the NESCAC quarters a 4th time in the last six seasons in 2015 but lost in the Sweet 16.
To Kenyon, of course ;)
Wow. I did a little research and you're right!
Since 2014 the Jumbos have lost a total of two NCAA tourney games...one to the Lords and one to Brandeis. And it's a testament to the depth of the program's confidence that they are convinced they shouldn't have lost either of those years.
Put another way, since 2014 Tufts' NCAA tournament record is 25-2-2.
No doubt about it - Tufts has been incredible for a while now. I'm really proud that my son's Saint Joe's team put one of those ties on the Tufts tournament record when they tied 0-0 at Tufts in 2017 but Tufts advanced on PKs.
I know you mentioned St. Joe's in passing earlier this week, PaulNewman, but I'd like to shine a little light on St. Joe's this season. After their 3-0 loss to Amherst where Amherst bossed them around the field, St. Joe's has quietly put together another terrific year. They are currently 13-1-2 overall and 12-0 in conference in the GNAC after beating Norwich and Johnson & Wales, both of which are ranked in Region I in the United Soccer Coaches poll. I'm curious why the coaches have Norwich ranked ahead of St. Joe's despite losing to them, but I agree with the sentiment that coaches poll is flawed so I won't belabor that point.
Over the past 5 years St. Joseph's (Maine) has posted a gaudy 84-6-13 record and I think they are in the conversation yearly now as one of the top New England teams outside the NESCAC. Please don't think I'm comparing St. Joe's to any of the top NESCAC teams - I realize the competition in conferences is night and day, but I just think St. Joseph's (Maine) deserves to be recognized on the national level along with other good non-NESCAC New England teams like MIT, WPI, and others.
OldNed...Absolutely. St Joe's has been one of the best stories of the past 5 or so years...nationally, and especially in New England and the Northeast.
I know the loss to Amherst was pretty decisive but they also beat Conn at Conn 2-0. Any team that gets St Joe's 1st or 2nd round is in for a battle.
Quote from: OldNed on October 27, 2021, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 11:05:11 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 26, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 10:25:33 PM
They lost in the NESCAC quarters a 4th time in the last six seasons in 2015 but lost in the Sweet 16.
To Kenyon, of course ;)
Wow. I did a little research and you're right!
Since 2014 the Jumbos have lost a total of two NCAA tourney games...one to the Lords and one to Brandeis. And it's a testament to the depth of the program's confidence that they are convinced they shouldn't have lost either of those years.
Put another way, since 2014 Tufts' NCAA tournament record is 25-2-2.
No doubt about it - Tufts has been incredible for a while now. I'm really proud that my son's Saint Joe's team put one of those ties on the Tufts tournament record when they tied 0-0 at Tufts in 2017 but Tufts advanced on PKs.
I know you mentioned St. Joe's in passing earlier this week, PaulNewman, but I'd like to shine a little light on St. Joe's this season. After their 3-0 loss to Amherst where Amherst bossed them around the field, St. Joe's has quietly put together another terrific year. They are currently 13-1-2 overall and 12-0 in conference in the GNAC after beating Norwich and Johnson & Wales, both of which are ranked in Region I in the United Soccer Coaches poll. I'm curious why the coaches have Norwich ranked ahead of St. Joe's despite losing to them, but I agree with the sentiment that coaches poll is flawed so I won't belabor that point.
Over the past 5 years St. Joseph's (Maine) has posted a gaudy 84-6-13 record and I think they are in the conversation yearly now as one of the top New England teams outside the NESCAC. Please don't think I'm comparing St. Joe's to any of the top NESCAC teams - I realize the competition in conferences is night and day, but I just think St. Joseph's (Maine) deserves to be recognized on the national level along with other good non-NESCAC New England teams like MIT, WPI, and others.
They do get overlooked, despite several years of gaudy records. The temptation is to dismiss a school like St. Joe's because of a cupcake schedule, but you still have to win games in a sport which can produce random results. IIRC, St. Joe's put a NESCAC school out of the tournament a few years ago: Maybe Midd?
I was on that Tufts team that tied St. Joes 0-0. I came away from the game feeling that they were on par with a Colby in the Nescac. A team that would finish 7th or 8th each year but every once in a while can go on a run to win the NESCAC tourney and on their day can certainly upset the top 2-3 teams.
Quote from: deiscanton on October 26, 2021, 02:32:24 PM
Some comments from less than 2 miles from the Paul Revere Heritage Site as the noreaster is developing.... :D
1.) Hopefully, we can get in all of the NESCAC and Commonwealth Coast Conference games in today (both men and women) before the storm really starts whipping up the wind through the overnight hours....
2.) Gamesites for NESCAC today are: Middletown, CT; Amherst, MA; Williamstown, MA; Brunswick, ME; and Lewiston, ME.
3.) Gamesites for Commonwealth Coast Conference today are: Bristol, RI (RWU hosting Suffolk); Dudley, MA (Nichols hosting Endicott); Milton, MA (Curry hosting Gordon); Biddeford, ME (UNE hosting Salve Regina), and Boston, MA (Wentworth hosting Western New England.)
It is more crucial to get most if not all of the CCC games played today before the CCC tournament starts on Thursday with the #7 and #8 seeds playing against each other in an opening round game to see who would face the #2 seed on Saturday. The #1 seed in the CCC gets to enter the tournament in the semifinal round, while seeds #2 through #6 play in quarterfinal action on Saturday.
Wentworth Western New England is currently the #8 seed and would play at either Suffolk or Wentworth on Thursday.
Nichols and University of New England's seasons end today-- Neither qualified for the CCC tournament.
Update as of noon Wednesday, October 27-- Really lucky not to have completely lost power in this storm, although my apartment did go in the dark for about 10 to 15 minutes this morning. My community was right on the border between cities and towns in Massachusetts that mostly did not lose power, and those cities and towns to the east and southeast where the wind gusts cut off most or all of the power. The nor'easter was as advertised.
Really fortunate that the NESCAC and Commonwealth Coast Conference got all of their men's soccer games in last night.
Western New England won at Wentworth last night and escaped tomorrow's #7/#8 Commonwealth Coast Conference opening round match-- it is Wentworth (#7 seed) hosting Suffolk (#8 seed) tomorrow night to see who will advance to play at Roger Williams (#2 seed) on Saturday.
Endicott got the Commonwealth Coast Conference's top seed and a bye to the semifinals.
The other Saturday quarterfinals in the CCC are Curry (#6 seed) at Salve Regina (#3 seed) and Western New England (#5 seed) at Gordon (#4 seed.)
Quote from: Centennial1 on October 27, 2021, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: OldNed on October 27, 2021, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 11:05:11 PM
Quote from: Ommadawn on October 26, 2021, 10:44:59 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 26, 2021, 10:25:33 PM
They lost in the NESCAC quarters a 4th time in the last six seasons in 2015 but lost in the Sweet 16.
To Kenyon, of course ;)
Wow. I did a little research and you're right!
Since 2014 the Jumbos have lost a total of two NCAA tourney games...one to the Lords and one to Brandeis. And it's a testament to the depth of the program's confidence that they are convinced they shouldn't have lost either of those years.
Put another way, since 2014 Tufts' NCAA tournament record is 25-2-2.
No doubt about it - Tufts has been incredible for a while now. I'm really proud that my son's Saint Joe's team put one of those ties on the Tufts tournament record when they tied 0-0 at Tufts in 2017 but Tufts advanced on PKs.
I know you mentioned St. Joe's in passing earlier this week, PaulNewman, but I'd like to shine a little light on St. Joe's this season. After their 3-0 loss to Amherst where Amherst bossed them around the field, St. Joe's has quietly put together another terrific year. They are currently 13-1-2 overall and 12-0 in conference in the GNAC after beating Norwich and Johnson & Wales, both of which are ranked in Region I in the United Soccer Coaches poll. I'm curious why the coaches have Norwich ranked ahead of St. Joe's despite losing to them, but I agree with the sentiment that coaches poll is flawed so I won't belabor that point.
Over the past 5 years St. Joseph's (Maine) has posted a gaudy 84-6-13 record and I think they are in the conversation yearly now as one of the top New England teams outside the NESCAC. Please don't think I'm comparing St. Joe's to any of the top NESCAC teams - I realize the competition in conferences is night and day, but I just think St. Joseph's (Maine) deserves to be recognized on the national level along with other good non-NESCAC New England teams like MIT, WPI, and others.
They do get overlooked, despite several years of gaudy records. The temptation is to dismiss a school like St. Joe's because of a cupcake schedule, but you still have to win games in a sport which can produce random results. IIRC, St. Joe's put a NESCAC school out of the tournament a few years ago: Maybe Midd?
They did knock out Midd in 2018 2-1 before falling to Amherst 4-2 in the second round.
Quote from: d4_Pace on October 27, 2021, 10:47:17 AM
I was on that Tufts team that tied St. Joes 0-0. I came away from the game feeling that they were on par with a Colby in the Nescac. A team that would finish 7th or 8th each year but every once in a while can go on a run to win the NESCAC tourney and on their day can certainly upset the top 2-3 teams.
D4, thanks for the reply, and I can't say as I disagree. It took everything St. Joe's could muster to come away with a 0-0 tie. The thing that struck me most from the stands was how physically big your team was. I remember thinking during the game that St. Joe's couldn't compete with Tufts on many of the balls in the air, but Tufts also didn't allow any room to advance the ball up the field by keeping it on the ground. If it wasn't for Blake Mullen in goal that day for Saint Joe's, it probably would have been 3-0 or 4-0.
Yep, if the peak had been a handful of hours earlier don't think those games would have been played, although Williams was probably far west enough to avoid the worst. Multiple towns south of Boston on the coast are mostly without power and there are trees on top of cars, trees and large branches down, areas of flooding, impassable roads, etc. I lost power twice but luckily for only an hour or so each time. Hearing that some towns expected to be without power for days.
Some thoughts this morning.... :)
Region II: First of the region's four conference tournaments started last night, with Wentworth (#7 seed prevaliing 2-0 over Suffolk in the Commonwealth Coast Conference's #7 v #8 opening round match. Leave it to Suffolk to end their season by conceding a late penalty kick goal in the second half. In the process, Nathan Gosselin of Wentworth, who scored a brace in the match, also scored his fifth made penalty kick (out of 5 attempts) of his career-- a Wentworth program record. Their tournament continues Saturday with Endicott having a bye to the semifinals. Saturday's quarterfinals have Wentworth at Roger Williams (#2 seed); Curry (#6 seed) at Salve Regina (#3 seed); and Western New England (#5 seed) at Gordon (#4 seed).
NEWMAC and MASCAC start their conference tournaments on Tuesday, Nov. 2. The NECC (in which all of their 4 teams will compete for the AQ) has their semifinal round on Wednesday, Nov. 3.
Region III: Skyline Conference tournament field is set, with Manhattanville (#1 seed) and Mount St. Vincent (#2 seed) having byes to the semifinals.
Farmingdale State gets the #3 seed by tiebreaker over Mount St Mary (#4 seed).
For only the second time in program history (and the first since 2015), the Yeshiva Maccabees (a/k/a "the Macs") men's soccer team qualified for the confererence tournament as the #6 seed. Yeshiva scheduled 10 of their 11 conference games to fall in October this season due to the High Holidays, Sukkot, and Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah falling in September this year. In the process, the Macs were able to qualify for the conference tournament with 1 match remaining. In observance of Shabbat, the Skyline Conference quarterfinal round will be played over a 2 day period.
On Saturday, October 30 at 3 PM Eastern, it will be (#5 seed) Merchant Marine at (#4 seed) Mount St. Mary, with the winner playing Manhattanville in one semifinal. (Semifinal is scheduled for Wednesday, Nov. 3 at 7 PM Eastern)
On Sunday, October 31 at noon Eastern, it will be (#6 seed) Yeshiva at (#3 seed) Farmingdale State, with the winner playing Mount St. Vincent in the other semifinal. (Semifinal is scheduled for Wednesday, Nov. 3 at 2 PM Eastern)
Championship is scheduled for Saturday, November 6 at noon Eastern at the site of the highest remaining seed. However, if Yeshiva advances to the championship game, the final will be played on Sunday, November 7 at noon Eastern in observance of Shabbat.
Source: 2021 Skyline Conference Men's Soccer Championship (http://skylineconference.org/tournaments/?id=244)
Region X: The Northwest Conference is one of only 2 DIII soccer conferences (the UAA is the other) to award their AQ to the team with the most points after the completion of their round-robin. With 3 matches remaining, Pacific Lutheran has the lead at 27 points. PLU has a 2 point lead over Williamette and a 6 point lead over Whitman. Their final matches will be played on Saturday and Sunday this weekend, and on Saturday, November 6.
deis--thanks for the good work as that got me really updated. I am surprised Merchant Marine is 5th in that league. I thought they would dominate when they first arrived.
Quote from: Mr.Right on October 29, 2021, 08:29:30 AM
deis--thanks for the good work as that got me really updated. I am surprised Merchant Marine is 5th in that league. I thought they would dominate when they first arrived.
Perhaps no more surprising than Mount St Vincent upsetting NYU in a non-league match a few weeks ago? :) I would like the Dolphins to follow up and win their conference tournament this upcoming week so that they can get a chance to see if they can pull off a "giant-killing" in the NCAAs. I really don't see any other Skyline Conference team in their tournament that can pull off an NCAA Round 1 "giant-killing". Manhattanville couldn't get a shot on target against Amherst in the regular season, and the Liberty League got the better of Skyline in their regular season non-conference matchups, so it is hard for me to see the Valiants or any other Skyline Confernce team pull off a Round 1 upset.
Agreed. Thx deis.
You sent me to The Wikipedia with your blurb about Yeshiva: a school I had heard of but knew nothing about. One of my favorite things about D3 soccer is discovering unique schools with cool (and sometimes not-so-cool) histories. Recents: Sul Ross, Guilford. Here's hoping that we see a couple of debutante teams make the tournament.
Quote from: Centennial1 on October 29, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Agreed. Thx deis.
You sent me to The Wikipedia with your blurb about Yeshiva: a school I had heard of but knew nothing about. One of my favorite things about D3 soccer is discovering unique schools with cool (and sometimes not-so-cool) histories. Recents: Sul Ross, Guilford. Here's hoping that we see a couple of debutante teams make the tournament.
Yeshiva has made the DIII headlines in recent years with their men's basketball team, which is deserving of their top 25 status in that sport. :)
Quote from: Centennial1 on October 29, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Agreed. Thx deis.
You sent me to The Wikipedia with your blurb about Yeshiva: a school I had heard of but knew nothing about. One of my favorite things about D3 soccer is discovering unique schools with cool (and sometimes not-so-cool) histories. Recents: Sul Ross, Guilford. Here's hoping that we see a couple of debutante teams make the tournament.
I wouldn't get too interested in Guilford. They are my betting favorite for "ODAC school with men unlikely to survive the upcoming changes in higher education." Especially now that E&H has left in search of D2 athletes to round out their admissions...
So, in prepping for the weekend and choosing games to watch, the headliners are of course the final weekend of UAA play (with great action tonight) and the NESCAC quarters. Also, tonight, rivals Trinity (TX) and Colorado College face off in Colorado Springs at 6:00 EST.
Elsewhere, tomorrow, we've got Hopkins at F&M and Wilmington at John Carroll. Sleeper picks are Babson at Springfield, WPI at MIT, and the LL final slate of matches to determine conference tourney seeding.
Follow @deiscanton for full coverage of the "mid-major" conference tournaments.
Quote from: jknezek on October 29, 2021, 09:54:07 AM
Quote from: Centennial1 on October 29, 2021, 09:40:13 AM
Agreed. Thx deis.
You sent me to The Wikipedia with your blurb about Yeshiva: a school I had heard of but knew nothing about. One of my favorite things about D3 soccer is discovering unique schools with cool (and sometimes not-so-cool) histories. Recents: Sul Ross, Guilford. Here's hoping that we see a couple of debutante teams make the tournament.
I wouldn't get too interested in Guilford. They are my betting favorite for "ODAC school with men unlikely to survive the upcoming changes in higher education." Especially now that E&H has left in search of D2 athletes to round out their admissions...
In a Forbes article, "Will Your Alma Mater Survive Covid?" (https://www.forbes.com/sites/schifrin/2021/02/22/college-financial-grades-2021-will-your-alma-mater-survive-covid/) published last February, the authors observed:
QuoteFiscal responsibility is anathema to many in higher education. Greensboro, North Carolina's Guilford College, a 184-year-old Quaker school with an undergraduate enrollment of 1,500, had been operating with multimillion-dollar budget deficits for years. After the pandemic hit, its interim president prudently decided to cut costs, announcing she would terminate nearly a third of its faculty members and cut half of its majors. But no sooner was the plan announced than an alumni outcry and pledges of donations successfully reversed most of the cuts. So Guilford lives on in misery for another few years.
Quote from: jknezek on October 29, 2021, 09:54:07 AM
I wouldn't get too interested in Guilford. They are my betting favorite for "ODAC school with men unlikely to survive the upcoming changes in higher education." Especially now that E&H has left in search of D2 athletes to round out their admissions...
Yeah. It is for that exact reason I was interested. A legacy school very much on the ropes. Crazy.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 10:04:20 AM
Elsewhere, tomorrow, we've got Hopkins at F&M and Wilmington at John Carroll. Sleeper picks are Babson at Springfield, WPI at MIT, and the LL final slate of matches to determine conference tourney seeding.
Can't wait. Centennial seeding, save for #1, is wide open!
Apropos of nothing...my 86 year old Mom lives half a mile from Guilford. Lovely campus, nice area, close to GSO airport.
When I was in high school Guilford had a fairly strong reputation but has seemed to suffer with Wake Forest and Davidson close by and especially the rapid rise of even closer and more popular institutions like Elon and High Point (the latter of which is dressed up with swimming pools outside and ice cream trucks). Of course UNC and NC State are within a hour and UNC-Greensboro is only a couple of miles away.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 10:04:20 AM
So, in prepping for the weekend and choosing games to watch, the headliners are of course the final weekend of UAA play (with great action tonight) and the NESCAC quarters. Also, tonight, rivals Trinity (TX) and Colorado College face off in Colorado Springs at 6:00 EST.
Elsewhere, tomorrow, we've got Hopkins at F&M and Wilmington at John Carroll. Sleeper picks are Babson at Springfield, WPI at MIT, and the LL final slate of matches to determine conference tourney seeding.
Follow @deiscanton for full coverage of the "mid-major" conference tournaments.
I do not use Twitter all that much, but thanks.... I'll just post. :D
Quote from: deiscanton on October 29, 2021, 10:23:13 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 10:04:20 AM
So, in prepping for the weekend and choosing games to watch, the headliners are of course the final weekend of UAA play (with great action tonight) and the NESCAC quarters. Also, tonight, rivals Trinity (TX) and Colorado College face off in Colorado Springs at 6:00 EST.
Elsewhere, tomorrow, we've got Hopkins at F&M and Wilmington at John Carroll. Sleeper picks are Babson at Springfield, WPI at MIT, and the LL final slate of matches to determine conference tourney seeding.
Follow @deiscanton for full coverage of the "mid-major" conference tournaments.
I do not use Twitter all that much, but thanks.... I'll just post. :D
Yup, that's what I meant. I don't have all the social media terminology nailed down.
I could be off, but comps for Guilford back in the day might have been Coe, Beloit, Hendrix, Millsaps, Ursinus, etc. Actually, iirc, Guilford has been one of the CTCL (colleges that change lives) schools for years.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 10:41:06 AM
I could be off, but comps for Guilford back in the day might have been Coe, Beloit, Hendrix, Millsaps, Ursinus, etc. Actually, iirc, Guilford has been one of the CTCL (colleges that change lives) schools for years.
Here is a more positive (and in-depth) take on what has been going on at Guilford and outlook for the future. https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2021/06/25/can-guilford-college-survive.html
That said the enrollment continues to decline dramatically - their data digest (https://www.guilford.edu/sites/default/files/2021-06/Guilford%20College%20Data%20Digest%202020-21.pdf) shows "total FTE" declined from 1465 to 1365 between Fall 2019 and Fall 2020, with a further decline to 1213 FTE by Spring 2021 which is basically half what it was ten years ago. The $4.7 million the school received in the latest round of federal COVID relief, only half which must go to student grants, will help deal with the financial impact in the short term.
Another interesting game this weekend is Messiah versus Penn State - Harrisburg, $24 in the NSCAA poll. The game was postponed from very early in the season to today, then postponed again to tomorrow due to weather.
Messiah hasn't played a ranked opponent since NYU so this will be a good test as Messiah finishes its regular season.
Been lurking for years. My first post. I read the comments daily, looking for new posts. Our son is the head coach of a top D3 program. I've really enjoyed the bio's of those who posted them back in mid Oct. It's taken two weeks for me to be accepted as a poster, so my post is late. Not sure I'll be able to remember who is who, going forward, but found the bio's of familiar handles very interesting. Adds a personal touch to the poster's handle, which is inviting. SimpleCoach's observations have been awesome. Hope you don't get burned out, SC. I never played soccer. Learned the game by watching our son play. And I've learned a lot on this board. I never thought I would enjoy a sporting event where I had no dog in the hunt, but with soccer, I find myself appreciating the play.
The Yeshiva Macs, who had already clinched the #6 seed in the Skyline Conference tournament, had to finish up their regular season Skyline Conference play with a match this afternoon against St. Joe's LI, a team whose season was coming to an end today. This match was originally going to be played September 13, but weather and the Jewish holidays postponed the match until today. Yeshiva lost today, 4-1, to St. Joe's LI (in what essentially was a meaningless game to both sides as far as the positions for playoffs went) to finish Skyline Conference play at 5-6.
(Have a good day of rest, Yeshiva, and give it your best on Sunday vs Farmingdale State.)
Quote from: oldman on October 29, 2021, 03:33:34 PM
Been lurking for years. My first post. I read the comments daily, looking for new posts. Our son is the head coach of a top D3 program. I've really enjoyed the bio's of those who posted them back in mid Oct. It's taken two weeks for me to be accepted as a poster, so my post is late. Not sure I'll be able to remember who is who, going forward, but found the bio's of familiar handles very interesting. Adds a personal touch to the poster's handle, which is inviting. SimpleCoach's observations have been awesome. Hope you don't get burned out, SC. I never played soccer. Learned the game by watching our son play. And I've learned a lot on this board. I never thought I would enjoy a sporting event where I had no dog in the hunt, but with soccer, I find myself appreciating the play.
I'm still a relative newbie compared to some on here, but happy to say "welcome aboard!"
Quote from: oldman on October 29, 2021, 03:33:34 PM
Been lurking for years. My first post. I read the comments daily, looking for new posts. Our son is the head coach of a top D3 program. I've really enjoyed the bio's of those who posted them back in mid Oct. It's taken two weeks for me to be accepted as a poster, so my post is late. Not sure I'll be able to remember who is who, going forward, but found the bio's of familiar handles very interesting. Adds a personal touch to the poster's handle, which is inviting. SimpleCoach's observations have been awesome. Hope you don't get burned out, SC. I never played soccer. Learned the game by watching our son play. And I've learned a lot on this board. I never thought I would enjoy a sporting event where I had no dog in the hunt, but with soccer, I find myself appreciating the play.
Hey @OldMan! Thank you for the kind words. Do appreciate. Welcome aboard!
Feel like I must be having a brain freeze. What is oldman referring to with poster bios?
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 05:05:45 PM
Feel like I must be having a brain freeze. What is oldman referring to with poster bios?
I think he may be referring to pages 16 - 18 of this thread when you and others got off topic for a while taking about days gone by on the message board, and wondering why participation on message boards in general and this one specific has declined, and some sharing a little bit about why they came to this message board and why they have hung around. There was some introspection and biographical sharing going on for a few pages. 'Til I finally found time to join the reminiscing, the thread had moved on and back on topic. *sigh*
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 29, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 05:05:45 PM
Feel like I must be having a brain freeze. What is oldman referring to with poster bios?
I think he may be referring to pages 16 - 18 of this thread when you and others got off topic for a while taking about days gone by on the message board, and wondering why participation on message boards in general and this one specific has declined, and some sharing a little bit about why they came to this message board and why they have hung around. There was some introspection and biographical sharing going on for a few pages. 'Til I finally found time to join the reminiscing, the thread had moved on and back on topic. *sigh*
No no no. :D That was one of the things I was saying... This board benefits when we go off topic now and then.
Floor is yours FW!
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 29, 2021, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 29, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 05:05:45 PM
Feel like I must be having a brain freeze. What is oldman referring to with poster bios?
I think he may be referring to pages 16 - 18 of this thread when you and others got off topic for a while taking about days gone by on the message board, and wondering why participation on message boards in general and this one specific has declined, and some sharing a little bit about why they came to this message board and why they have hung around. There was some introspection and biographical sharing going on for a few pages. 'Til I finally found time to join the reminiscing, the thread had moved on and back on topic. *sigh*
No no no. :D That was one of the things I was saying... This board benefits when we go off topic now and then.
Floor is yours FW!
Okay, for what it's worth . . . some reminiscing, personal biography, and touching on some topics/posts up-thread . . .
● For me, the good ol' days were the 2000's on the soccer-specific message board associated with the long since departed D3soccer.NET website. I stumbled across that website and message board shortly after it was launched way back in 2001—twenty years ago! It's probably my bias and sentimentality that makes me think that the soccer forum on this D3sports.com message board never reached the levels that old board did. Personally, I never came close to posting even half as much on this board as I did on that other one. And probably less than a third of the regulars on that message board ever posted on this one, and even fewer became regulars here, and of those I'm not sure if there's hardly any one left.
● Whether the decline in participation on this message board is down to issues specific to this board or more just a part of overall trends, I have no idea. I do feel that there was a period of time in which the board unfortunately probably was not all that welcoming to newcomers if you weren't either "hard core" or tough-skinned.
● I found it rather amusing when PaulNewman almost seemed to bemoan the lack of Messiah fans posting here these days given it wasn't just too long ago that the second most popular topic on here after the NESCAC thread was complaining about having too much Messiah-talk and criticizing Messiah fans being too biased in favor of their team.
● As to my lack of posting . . . I just turned 50, but, due to marrying late and then a delayed start to a family, I have four kids ages 4 thru 10. All four play soccer (I do some coaching), and the two girls do ballet, oldest boy sometimes does baseball, etc... So you do the math on how much free time I have and how much energy I have left over for whatever free time I do get!
● I'm still on here regularly, but I mostly just lurk these days. I simply don't have time/opportunity to post much anymore. And since I don't get out to games much (been reduced to Messiah's Saturday evening home games) nor have time to closely follow/study other results, even if I would have a few moments to post here, I don't really have much to contribute.
● As I lurk, when I notice people getting obstinate, or two people continue an argument long after its clear there's nothing to be gained, or someone feels the unnecessary need to set someone straight, etc..., I initially get judgmental (in my head) before humbly realizing that was probably me back in the day.
Well, other responsibilities are calling. Carry on.
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 29, 2021, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 29, 2021, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: Flying Weasel on October 29, 2021, 05:20:35 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 29, 2021, 05:05:45 PM
Feel like I must be having a brain freeze. What is oldman referring to with poster bios?
I think he may be referring to pages 16 - 18 of this thread when you and others got off topic for a while taking about days gone by on the message board, and wondering why participation on message boards in general and this one specific has declined, and some sharing a little bit about why they came to this message board and why they have hung around. There was some introspection and biographical sharing going on for a few pages. 'Til I finally found time to join the reminiscing, the thread had moved on and back on topic. *sigh*
No no no. :D That was one of the things I was saying... This board benefits when we go off topic now and then.
Floor is yours FW!
● I found it rather amusing when PaulNewman almost seemed to bemoan the lack of Messiah fans posting here these days given it wasn't just too long ago that the second most popular topic on here after the NESCAC thread was complaining about having too much Messiah-talk and criticizing Messiah fans being too biased in favor of their team.
Well, other responsibilities are calling. Carry on.
I'm glad you posted this since you clearly were thinking it, but from my pov that's a distorted and unfair presentation. I've been very kind, often glowing, about Messiah in general, and I've welcomed a big focus on Messiah as well as Messiah posters. Have I also from my pov pointed something out that I saw as a gratuitous mention of Messiah in a brand protection kind of way, and similar to what I've done many, many times with Kenyon or D4 has done with Tufts, or, some others who also take great pride in and can become defensive about their schools? Absolutely. Guilty as charged. I've been very mindful, and respectful, of Messiah's place in this sphere, and I've always viewed continued excellence as desirable for D3 soccer. Do I want Messiah to win the national title every year? No. But I do want Messiah to remain nationally prominent and a contender year after year. Yes.
Well, I don't want this to turn into a big deal, so I will just quickly say that my comment was not meant as a dig at Paul Newman (or anyone else for that matter). I'm sorry it has seemingly been taken that way. I just genuinely found it ironic and amusing in a general way, and intended my observation to come off as light-hearted and half-joking. So sorry that it didn't. My apologies.
Anybody know why the UAA thread got locked? I don't recall anything controversial or potentially out of line in that one.
It's probably because I shouted in reaction to a winning goal last night. (did one sentence in all caps.) I may have violated Term of Service #3 by accident as a result, and I did not realize it. I apologize for the shouting.
Moderators, please PM me if that is the case so that I can modify the posting, and I will not shout again. With that, I would like to further discuss the UAA.
I verify that I have re-read the Terms of Service this morning.
Oh good lord. Someone mentioned upthread, in the discussion of why posting is down, that this site could be perceived to be unwelcoming unless you were hard-core or super knowledgeable. I think the past few posts illustrate the issue I have as a newbie. I feel I have to walk on eggshells, or run the risk of inadvertently offending someone, or now I see, violating the terms of service.
Not saying anything has to change, just making an observation.
FW, no worries. For the record, and notwithstanding the real possibility that a little research could unearth something from me suggesting otherwise, I appreciate posting from you, Falconer, and other Messiah faithful, and would love to see more. I would be very curious to hear what it's been like for Messiah fans to see the rise of Tufts and digest all of the "Tufts-talk," or other modest shifts in the D3 soccer landscape over the past half-plus decade or so. Of course Messiah hasn't really dropped any in my eyes as much as another super-power emerged, and after all Messiah did win the only non-NESCAC title since 2014 to the present, and remains very firmly in place as one of the top 2-3 programs in the country year in and year out. And I do wish Messiah and Tufts had squared off several more times. If Messiah had played Tufts the 3-4 times the Jumbos have played Calvin, I am confident the Falcons would have won at least 1-2 of those. Now, if I could just learn my lesson, I would end this post right here...
Alas, my bias, often to my detriment here (and in real life), is to acknowledge elephants in the room. My bias is to go for the unsaid that is in the ether and that many are likely thinking but not naming. Maybe that's my training as a clinical psychologist who evolved into a forensic psychologist who does competency, insanity, and civil commitment evaluations regarding persons with serious mental illness, or maybe it's just my quirky personality, or just being a jerk. I certainly could write pages self-analyzing why I'm still here and how I'm getting (inappropriately) my needs met. And then there's the matter of to what extent I see elephants that aren't there. Again, could write pages. I often marvel at and occasionally get frustrated with the few regulars here who maintain sterling karma profiles. Believe it or not I frequently hold back quite a bit. I'm sure others do too. And as much as I hate to admit it the karma thing does have an impact, but occasionally I "go for it" anyway. I'd rather folks confront me directly, or say what part they objected to, because otherwise whatever a person is responding to that yields the karma hit can't be conceded, confirmed, or contested. At any rate, I readily admit that over the years I've had more than my fair share of scrums, far more frequently in the early years, and often of a very petty variety...and once I'm triggered so to speak, I agree with something you said to me long ago about my style at those times occasionally being "off-putting." From earlier days when contentious interactions were from pov more rampant from myself, Mr.Right, and others, and about which I think you are correct that new posters could have found the atmosphere intimidating and uninviting, I think most of us in that category have become more consistently constructive. Maybe I'm way off, but imo 90% or more of my contributions are informative, constructive, playful/humorous, entertaining, and sometime perhaps boring or tedious. I'd much rather post an overview of Keuka College or Wisconsin Lutheran than get into a "tit for tat" with someone that will go nowhere except somewhere unpleasant. I don't feel like I hunt for confrontations, but I do read virtually everything posted, and occasionally I just can't help myself. I think some of this would be positively impacted by more posters, including more posters who are supporters of some of the more talked about (and hyped) programs...and where others could chime in and say "hey buddy, I agreed with you here, but you were out of line here" or "yes, you're technically correct but everyone doesn't need to schooled and corrected every time you see an opportunity," or whatever. Overall, I think the maturity of posters (myself excluded lol) here is pretty good. I haven't checked out forums where Alabama and Auburn or UK and Duke/Louisville fans go at it, but I imagine this one in the big picture most of the time stays within reasonable boundaries.
So, anyway, now you maybe can see how I might have conflated your reference to me by name with your comments below that.
Carry on. Enjoy the madness. This is the exciting time of the year over the next couple of weeks until some of our teams begin heading for the exits with attendant marked declines in how prolific some of us are.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 30, 2021, 08:32:21 AM
Anybody know why the UAA thread got locked? I don't recall anything controversial or potentially out of line in that one.
Probably a mistake.
Another observation, and then I will stop. That is -- no need for a confrontation. Lively discussion of opposing viewpoints, sure. But that can happen while also assuming the best of intentions, and respecting, all the parties in a discussion. Also, it takes two people to have a confrontation. If one doesn't respond in kind = no confrontation. Life's too short, and these are a bunch of amateur players we are following!
Quote from: Ron Boerger on October 30, 2021, 12:33:24 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 30, 2021, 08:32:21 AM
Anybody know why the UAA thread got locked? I don't recall anything controversial or potentially out of line in that one.
Probably a mistake.
The thread got unlocked this afternoon, but that will teach me not to shout on the board....
I have unlocked the UAA thread. I have no idea why it was locked. The locking of the thread wasn't even showing up in the Moderator Log, and yet when I unlocked it, that action did show up in the log. I have got to think this was either accidental or a glitch.
Maybe another moderator will correct me, but I don't think it had anything to do with any violation of the ToS. First, the use of ALL CAPS was limited to one sentence, and, second, if that was considered a violation, it would have resulted in the removal of that post, not the locking of the entire thread.
I highly doubt this has anything to do with "walking on eggshells" and "offending someone".
Quote from: Christan Shirk on October 30, 2021, 03:17:47 PM
I have unlocked the UAA thread. I have no idea why it was locked. The locking of the thread wasn't even showing up in the Moderator Log, and yet when I unlocked it, that action did show up in the log. I have got to think this was either accidental or a glitch.
Maybe another moderator will correct me, but I don't think it had anything to do with any violation of the ToS. First, the use of ALL CAPS was limited to one sentence, and, second, if that was considered a violation, it would have resulted in the removal of that post, not the locking of the entire thread.
I highly doubt this has anything to do with "walking on eggshells" and "offending someone".
Thank you; however, I have altered the sentence now. I am glad to see the thread back on line for discussion of tomorrow's matches.
To paraphrase an old comedian, Bud Abbott, for modern times: "Hey, it could have been a dumb algorithm that got screwy. What's the difference?":)
I don't know about walking on eggshells but obviously people all have different experiences and feel differently but I think there has only been one terms violation in the 7 years I've been following this board and that was well deserved. So thats just really not a legitimate concern.
Well, as far as Mr. Right being surprised that Merchant Marine got the #5 seed in the Skyline Conference tournament this year, the USMMA really came out today and has practically put their quarterfinal game vs Mount St Mary away before halftime.
In the 39th minute, Merchant Marine is leading 4-0 over Mount St Mary, and it looks like the USMMA has booked their trip to the Skyline Conference semfinals vs Manhattanville.
Send some hats to David Kelly of USMMA for his hat trick today. He scored goals in the 4th, 16th, and 23rd minute-- the third goal was a penalty kick goal. Fourth goal was scored in 38th minute by Derek Vanesse. Merchant Marine up 4-0 at halftime.
Mount St Mary had beaten Merchant Marine, 2-1, just 10 days before.....
OMG. WPI with a PK to win in OT and #10 skies the shot 10 yards over the bar.
And what about those 17-1-1 Gorloks???
And then the same #10 wins it for WPI a minute later.
UW-Superior sneaks by the host Crown Storm 18-0 in St. Bonifacius, MN. The Storm sit at 1-17 on the season.
St. Thomas ties Trinity... Watched a decent chunk and just not all that impressed with Trinity. I'll go back and watch more, but... Meh.
There are teams like Messiah, vintage Tufts (and a number of NESCAC teams), F&M and other Centennial teams, W&L and some in that region ... and a few others just impose their will on games. I got no sense of that from Trinity.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 30, 2021, 06:12:16 PM
OMG. WPI with a PK to win in OT and #10 skies the shot 10 yards over the bar.
And what about those 17-1-1 Gorloks???
And then the same #10 wins it for WPI a minute later.
WPI got their victory last night at MIT when they needed it the most. Anything less than 3 points yesterday and WPI would not have qualified for the NEWMAC tournament (Wheaton (MA) would have gotten the #5 seed instead.) Now, WPI is the #5 seed in the NEWMAC tournament and will play a Tuesday night opening round knock-out #4/#5 match at Coast Guard, with the winner playing in a Thursday night semfinal at #1 seed MIT. #3 seed Springfield plays at #2 seed Babson on Thursday afternoon in the other NEWMAC semifinal.
Did anyone watch the W&L game yesterday? My prediction is that unless something changes, they will lose their next game.
Quote from: Another Mom on October 31, 2021, 12:49:30 PM
Did anyone watch the W&L game yesterday? My prediction is that unless something changes, they will lose their next game.
I watched part of it. They did not look motivated. Hopefully that ugly scare will get them focused again. If it comes down to W&L and Lynchburg... well, it's tough to beat a good team 3x in one season and Lynchburg is playing much better than the Generals lately.
Quote from: Another Mom on October 31, 2021, 12:49:30 PM
Did anyone watch the W&L game yesterday? My prediction is that unless something changes, they will lose their next game.
I haven't watched them in the past 2-3 weeks, and all I know about them is what I know about the school, the coach, and that they've been very good for several years and are poised for a special year. That said, W&L is in an interesting spot. They've progressed into a favorite role instead of just a solid to strong contender role, and they now have the burden/challenge/benefit of being considered one of the top 3 teams in the country from virtually the beginning of the season to the present. There's a ton of pressure but I think mostly a good pressure. I don't think they'll lose their next game, but wouldn't be horrible if they did. As you've maybe read in the NESCAC thread, there are some advantages to bowing out of your conference tourney early.
Agree with both of you, it wouldn't be horrible for them to lose -- in fact losing might act as a wake up call for them. I feel they are too complacent-- entitled even -- and not playing with the intensity they need, especially since there's a target on their backs.
My son knows, the #1 thing I care about when watching any player or any team is "did you try your hardest?" If so, great game no matter the outcome. The fact that they don't seem to be trying their hardest is kind of driving me nuts. They've been this way for the past few games.
Yeshiva had their moment by making an appearance in the Skyline Conference tournament this season, but the season for the Macs is probably coming to an end today. Farmingdale State is up 2-0 on Yeshiva with less than 10 minutes left. The Maccabees only had 2 shots on target all game.
If this scoreline holds, Farmingdale State will play Mount St. Vincent in one Skyline Conf semifinal, while Merchant Marine plays Manhattanville in the other.
2:03 PM Eastern update-- I spoke too soon. The Maccabees said "There is no choice", and scored 2 late goals in regulation to send the match to extra time. End of regulation, Farmingdale State and Yeshiva are tied at 2-2.
Yeshiva scored their first goal on an 86th minute goal from Asher Martin. 48 seconds later, in the 87th minute, the Macs score the equalizer on a goal from Naor Dahan.
That is why they say that a 2 goal lead is the most dangerous lead in soccer.....
2:19 PM Eastern update-- After 1 extra time period, Yeshiva and Farmingdale State are tied at 2-2.
Quintessential (new fave word) UAA game day. All four tilts 0-0 at various points in 1st half.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 31, 2021, 02:17:33 PM
Quintessential (new fave word) UAA game day. All four tilts 0-0 at various points in 1st half.
Thanks, I am not missing anything while Yeshiva and Farmingdale State play it out for the right to face Mount St. Vincent. The match got really interesting late when the Macs scored 2 quick goals to send it to extra time.
Yeshiva and Farmingdale State end up in a 2-2 draw after extra time.
We are going to kicks from the mark to see who advances to the Skyline Conference semifinals to play Mount St. Vincent.
2:51 PM Eastern update-- Yeshiva advances on kicks from the mark, 4-3, in 6 rounds, and will play Mount St. Vincent. With less than 10 minutes left in regulation, it looked like the Macs's season was going to end. However, Yeshiva was able to survive and advance.
In the other Skyline Conference semifinal, it will be Merchant Marine at Manhattanville.
I was preparing to post what a brutally crushing weekend it was for Emory, losing leads late two games in a row, and with under a minute a left in 1st OT Emory player scores on a free kick straight on from at least 22 yards out beating Mancuso top right. So Emory remains in pretty good shape despite the loss to Brandeis.
Shortly before NYU leveled #10 got tripped at midfield and I think was trying to draw a red on Emory. He jumped up quickly motioning for a card and was running around absolutely fine and then fell to the ground and started grabbing his ankle and rolling on the turf. Probably a film student.
Wash U and Chicago take care of business two grab two Ws each against UAA basement dwellers CMU and CWRU.
And give credit to Brandeis for not throwing in the towel a couple of weeks ago...the Judges have been very competitive and end the weekend with a W and a draw.
I would say UR is the team in no-man's land in the UAA at the moment, but they'll probably be fine as they always seem to manage getting a Pool C.
I will say as a mock pollster it is very hard to weigh out these UAA teams when they for the week have a loss and win or vice versa. The easy solution is Wash U and Chicago move up and NYU and Emory drop at least a little.
Congratulations to the Pacific Lutheran Lutes on winning the 2021-2022 Northwest Conference Men's Championship and becoming the first team to get the AQ to the 2021-2022 NCAA DIII Men's Soccer Championship.
Pacific Lutheran has just defeated George Fox, 4-0, in matchround 13 of 14 matchrounds. The NWC awards their conference title and AQ to the team with the most points through 14 rounds of play. Each NWC men's team plays their 7 conference opponents home and away during the regular season.
Pacific Lutheran has just improved to 11-2 in the NWC (33 points.) The Lutes started today with a 5 point lead over the rest of the field thanks to a win by Pacific Lutheran and a loss by 2nd place team Willamette in yesterday's games (matchround 12). As a result of the win over George Fox today, the Lutes will maintain at least a 5 point lead over the rest of the field with 1 game remaining.
Through 13 conference games, the Lutes have outscored their opponents 44-4. All 11 of Pacific Lutheran's conference wins this season came by way of getting a clean sheet. Pacific Lutheran has only lost conference games this season when they have conceded goals in them.
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 31, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Probably a film student.
I really don't use the term laugh out loud very often... But this one got me. Quality.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 31, 2021, 08:13:21 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on October 31, 2021, 04:31:44 PM
Probably a film student.
I really don't use the term laugh out loud very often... But this one got me. Quality.
That makes two. I giggled.
And now for a little Contender OR Pretender interlude....
Trinity (TX)
St Olaf
Otterbein
Cortland St
North Central
C-M-S
MIT
JCU
GAC
CNU
Dubuque
Wesleyan
MHB
Hope
Rochester
Redlands
Swat
Rowan
RUN
RPI
Vassar
Gettysburg
Hopkins
Denison
St Joe's
UMass-Boston
KZoo
Pac Luth
Kean
Ps-Harrisburg
Oglethorpe
Maryville
Webster
How did you get a look at my #20-#50 rankings?
Quote from: Ejay on November 01, 2021, 12:08:37 PM
How did you get a look at my #20-#50 rankings?
LOL. I'm sure our lists are very similar.
For the poll I submitted last night the cut-off for my top 20 teams ends with North Central and C-M-S, so the first six listed made my top 20.
I only included Trinity because some like to question whether or not their contending prowess matches their usual lofty rankings, and St Olaf because that's a name most aren't used to considering for a leading contender role. Among those first six listed Cortland probably has the strongest pedigree after Trinity although Otterbein got to a Sweet 16 a few years ago and C-M-S did as well in 2019 (bowing out to Centre).
Are we talking contender to win the tournament, or are we talking contender to make a nice run to the last 8 or 4? Because those are 2 different things.
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 12:20:45 PM
Are we talking contender to win the tournament, or are we talking contender to make a nice run to the last 8 or 4? Because those are 2 different things.
I'm really just playing around but good question. For some a run to the Elite 8 or better would be my standard, for others to the Sweet 16 or Elite 8, and for others the bar might be earning a noteworthy 1st round upset (like a repeat of PS-H beating Messiah or F&M or a NESCAC OR PS-Behrend [not listed] knocking off OWU, Kenyon, or JCU).
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
You could be right, and I dearly hope you are. I listed a bunch of very good, dangerous teams but as I go through that list none jump out as likely to get to the Final Four or win it all compared to W&L, Tufts, and Messiah. I don't view Amherst as top 4 although they do have a player who could go on a tear and lead them to the Final Four and possibly a title. As I go through the list I noted above beginning with Trinity and ending with JCU, not a single one of those teams stands out sharply compared to all the others listed. F&M is another dangerous team but I can't see them breaking through beyond the Elite 8.
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
I'm bored.
So here's another way of looking at it. Would you take the four you noted -- W&L, Tufts, Messiah, Amherst -- or Calvin, Kenyon, North Park, Conn Coll.....or Chicago, OWU, Midd, NYU....or Trinity, Montclair, Emory, Wash U? Tbh, putting aside likelihood of those breakdowns matching quadrants (pretty unlikely in your example also), that does sound closer to me than I would have thought.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
I'm bored.
So here's another way of looking at it. Would you take the four you noted -- W&L, Tufts, Messiah, Amherst -- or Calvin, Kenyon, North Park, Conn Coll.....or Chicago, OWU, Midd, NYU....or Trinity, Montclair, Emory, Wash U? Tbh, putting aside likelihood of those breakdowns matching quadrants (pretty unlikely in your example also), that does sound closer to me than I would have thought.
How about this? You get to spend $4,000 - who are you taking?
W&L $1,000
Tufts $1,000
Messiah $1,000
Amherst $1,000
Calvin $500
Kenyon $500
North Park $500
Conn Coll $500
Chicago $500
OWU $500
Middlebury $500
NewYorkU $500
Trinity $500
Montclair $500
Emory $500
Wash $500
The Field $2000
Quote from: Ejay on November 01, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
I'm bored.
So here's another way of looking at it. Would you take the four you noted -- W&L, Tufts, Messiah, Amherst -- or Calvin, Kenyon, North Park, Conn Coll.....or Chicago, OWU, Midd, NYU....or Trinity, Montclair, Emory, Wash U? Tbh, putting aside likelihood of those breakdowns matching quadrants (pretty unlikely in your example also), that does sound closer to me than I would have thought.
How about this? You get to spend $4,000 - who are you taking?
W&L $1,000
Tufts $1,000
Messiah $1,000
Amherst $1,000
Calvin $500
Kenyon $500
North Park $500
Conn Coll $500
Chicago $500
OWU $500
Middlebury $500
NewYorkU $500
Trinity $500
Montclair $500
Emory $500
Wash $500
The Field $2000
This I like! The Field for 2K, Trinity, Conn College, Kenyon and Emory. That gives me 19 teams I think. Best value for my money.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
I'm bored.
So here's another way of looking at it. Would you take the four you noted -- W&L, Tufts, Messiah, Amherst -- or Calvin, Kenyon, North Park, Conn Coll.....or Chicago, OWU, Midd, NYU....or Trinity, Montclair, Emory, Wash U? Tbh, putting aside likelihood of those breakdowns matching quadrants (pretty unlikely in your example also), that does sound closer to me than I would have thought.
At even money, I'd take the original foursome. The experience of Messiah, Tufts and Amherst is too great to pass up. But, if you gave me Calvin, Kenyon, Conn Coll, OWU, Trinity, and Emory I'd take that group of 6 over the original 4 at even money.
Going to golden goal extra time in Minnesota in an opening round game of the MIAC tournament (#3 seed Gusties v #6 seed Johnnies)
Gusties ranked #2 in Region IX and the Johnnies ranked #7 in Region IX in the Week 2 regional rankings.
Game tied at 1-1 even though the Gusties outshot the Johnnies 20-3, and 9-1 in shots on target. (Both goals were scored in the first half-- the Johnnies scored on a PK, and then the Gusties equalized it a few minutes later.)
This is the only Monday afternoon men's conference tournament game on what is a light day overall. We have just 5 men's soccer conference tournament games today.
Update-- Johnnies score the golden goal in the 96th minute to advance to the MIAC semifinals-- Gustavus Adolphus is now a candidate for a Pool C bid.
Johnnies play St. Olaf (#1 seed) on Wednesday in one MIAC semifinal, while Carleton will play the Augsburg/MacAlester winner in the other semifinal.
This evening, we have the other MIAC opening round game (#5 seed MacAlester at #4 seed Augsburg), with the Empire 8, MAC-Commonwealth, and MAC-Freedom also having opening round games tonight. All of the remaining opening round games tonight are #4 seed vs #5 seed matches, with the winners playing their respective top seeds in the semifinals.
Quote from: Ejay on November 01, 2021, 02:45:41 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 02:31:39 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 01, 2021, 01:20:54 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 01, 2021, 12:58:50 PM
I think W&L, Tufts, and Messiah are still the heavy faves to win the whole thing, although I'm a little less confident about Messiah given the loss of their best player.
After that I would say legit contenders in no particular order are Trinity, Conn Coll, Calvin, Kenyon, OWU, Chicago, Wash U, Emory, North Park, Montclair, and maybe St Olaf, Amherst, NYU, and JCU. My sleeper picks might be Midd and North Central. I could be missing one or two but otherwise any other teams getting to the Final Four I would consider a significant surprise.
On even money I would take the field this year vs a grouping of W&L, Tufts, Messiah and Amherst.
And for my Generals sake... I dearly hope I'm wrong.
I'm bored.
So here's another way of looking at it. Would you take the four you noted -- W&L, Tufts, Messiah, Amherst -- or Calvin, Kenyon, North Park, Conn Coll.....or Chicago, OWU, Midd, NYU....or Trinity, Montclair, Emory, Wash U? Tbh, putting aside likelihood of those breakdowns matching quadrants (pretty unlikely in your example also), that does sound closer to me than I would have thought.
How about this? You get to spend $4,000 - who are you taking?
W&L $1,000
Tufts $1,000
Messiah $1,000
Amherst $1,000
Calvin $500
Kenyon $500
North Park $500
Conn Coll $500
Chicago $500
OWU $500
Middlebury $500
NewYorkU $500
Trinity $500
Montclair $500
Emory $500
Wash $500
The Field $2000
Tufts, OWU/Kenyon, Emory/Chicago, North Park/Calvin
It's hard because majority of Chicago, OWU, North Park Kenyon, JCU, Calvin/Hope, Emory/Wash U, and F&M or a Montclair or Hopkins could end up in same quad.
Quote from: deiscanton on November 01, 2021, 03:05:26 PM
Going to golden goal extra time in Minnesota in an opening round game of the MIAC tournament (#3 seed Gusties v #6 seed Johnnies)
Gusties ranked #2 in Region IX and the Johnnies ranked #7 in Region IX in the Week 2 regional rankings.
Game tied at 1-1 even though the Gusties outshot the Johnnies 20-3, and 9-1 in shots on target. (Both goals were scored in the first half-- the Johnnies scored on a PK, and then the Gusties equalized it a few minutes later.)
This is the only Monday afternoon men's conference tournament game on what is a light day overall. We have just 5 men's soccer conference tournament games today.
Update-- Johnnies score the golden goal in the 96th minute to advance to the MIAC semifinals-- Gustavus Adolphus is now a candidate for a Pool C bid.
This evening, we have the other MIAC opening round game (#5 seed Augsburg at #4 seed MacAlester), with the Empire 8, MAC-Commonwealth, and MAC-Freedom also having opening round games tonight.
Pool C hopefuls should be pulling for St Olaf to win the MIAC because otherwise that could be two Pool Cs.
Surprised by GAC loss but I shouldn't be because St John's can be tough. GAC had been on a roll and was in my dangerous sleeper category with Dubuque and a few others. The MIAC is an interesting conference and of course lost St. Thomas. I'm not quite sure why Carleton and Macalester (and different conference but academic sibling Grinnell) aren't consistently more competitive nationally.
A team that stays under the radar, including for me, and despite being top 15 pretty much the whole season is Otterbein. For whatever reason I still favor JCU but that may be a big mistake. Conn Coll is growing on me rapidly but still need to see the Camels get to at least the Elite 8 again.
Tufts, W&L, and the Field might be financially prudent as well.
Men's conference tournament matches this evening--
Region IX-- Minnesota-- MacAlester wins the other MIAC opening round match at Augsburg, 3-2, with a second half goalfest where each team scored 2 goals a piece. The MIAC reseeds so that the lowest remaining seed plays the highest remaining seed, so in Wednesday's semifinals, it is the Johnnies vs the Oles in one semifinal, and MacAlester will play at Carleton in the other semifinal.
Region IV-- Mac-Freedom-- Stevens 0, Wilkes 0 at halftime. Winner goes to Arcadia.
Region V-- Mac-Commonwealth-- Stevenson 3, York (PA) 0 at halftime. Winner goes to Messiah.
Region III-- Empire 8-- St. John Fisher 0, Alfred 0 at halftime. Winner goes on to play Nazareth.
Update-- Stevens has just scored in the 52nd minute to take a 1-0 lead on Wilkes in the MAC-Freedom #4/#5 game. Goal scored by Sean Masur with an assist by Bruno Andino. It is Masur's 2nd goal of the season.
8:32 PM Eastern update-- Stevens now leading 2-0 on Wilkes. Masur has a brace in the 61st minute. Match is now in the 70th minute, and Wilkes is planning to change goalkeepers as soon as the next dead ball, according to the Stevens Ducks commentator.
8:36 PM Eastern-- Wilkes has just made the goalkeeper change.
8:41 PM Eastern-- Jon Valcarce has just scored his first goal of the season for the Ducks in the 78th minute, and Stevens will be moving on to play at Arcadia on Wednesday in the MAC-Freedom semifinals. Stevens now up, 3-0.
8:44 PM Eastern-- Empire 8-- William Moore has just scored for the Saxons in the 72nd minute. Alfred now up, 1-0, on St. John Fisher. Winner goes on to play at Nazareth.
9:02 PM Eastern-- MAC-Commonwealth game has gone final. Stevenson will play at Messiah on Wednesday. MAC-Freedom game is also a final with Stevens advancing to play at Arcadia. In the Empire 8, St. John Fisher has just scored an equalizer in the 85th minute to tie the game 1-1 with Alfred up in Pittsford, NY. (Rochester metro area). Ben Woolingham scoring for the Cardinals with his 3rd goal of the season.
9:08 PM Eastern-- Region III-- St. John Fisher and Alfred finish regulation tied at 1-1 and are headed to golden goal extra time in the Empire 8 #4 vs #5 match. This is the only men's match of the evening where extra time is needed, and this is the final men's match of the day.
9:23 PM Eastern-- St. John Fisher gets the golden goal in the 98th minute to advance to the Empire 8 semifinals to play Nazareth. The golden goal was scored by Ben Woolingham, who got a brace on the evening.
That is all for this light day of action. It was nice to get at least one extra time game today. The conference tournament action starts revving up again tomorrow.
RE: Guinn out at Union
Presuming this move was not entirely voluntarily seems consistent with decisions over the past 6-7 years at Colby, Bates, and Denison.
IMO this Union job is very similar to the Denison position that Bianco took over. Perhaps the hill to climb is a little bit higher than the one Bianco inherited, but not by that much and very similar in terms of being peer institutions with significant prestige and yet also likely a little more leeway with admissions compared to the traditionally even more elite LACs, having money, valuing athletics, etc. In short, there is no obvious reason why Denison, Union, or Trinity (CT) shouldn't have consistently strong soccer programs (unless there are factors which I know nothing about which of course is quite possible).
Commonwealth Coast Conference semifinal
Endicott 2, Gordon 1 in the 64th minute.
Endicott was up, 1-0, at halftime. Endicott's first goal was scored in the 14th minute by Joe Mepham, assisted by Camden Ridgney
The second half has been a wild one so far.
In the 61st minute, Endicott's Charles Badji got a direct red card for denial of an obvious goal scoring opportunity just outside the penalty box.
On the ensuing free kick, Gordon's Chase Gwynn got the equalizer to tie the match 1-1. The equalizer is Gwynn's 18th goal of the season.
In the 64th minute, now down a man for the rest of the game, Endicott's Austin Wickham scored the go-ahead goal for the Gulls to retake the lead at 2-1. The assist is by Joe Mepham.
Endicott's Charles Badji now has a 1 game ban to serve as a result of the red card-- suspension to be served either on Saturday in the CCC Championship match if Endicott advances today, or the first regular season game next season if Gordon comes back and wins.
6:43 PM Eastern update-- Gordon's Chase Gwynn has just scored another equalizer in the 80th minute to tie the match at 2-2. Gwynn now has a brace on the evening, and the goal is Gwynn's 19th of the season. Assist by Jarvin Ramirez.
To review, Endicott now playing with 10 men since the 61st minute as a result of the red card given earlier in the half.
6:47 PM Eastern update-- Gordon now leading over Endicott, 3-2, on a goal from Dayton Crocker in the 83rd minute. Assist by Michael Hahn. It is Crocker's 1st goal of the season.
6:56 PM Eastern-- Final: Gordon 3, Endicott 2. Endicott's season is over, and the CCC AQ will be decided in Rhode Island on Saturday with the winner of Roger Williams vs Salve Regina hosting the title game.
Charles Badji of Endicott will have to sit out the first regular season game next September as a result of getting a red card tonight.
If Coast Guard sees this game out with WPI will be a huge win, giving them a 3rd ranked win with risk of another ranked loss coming next vs MIT.
WPI will be sweating...but combination of luck and brilliant scheduling helps as last two games vs UMass-Boston and MIT and to lesser extent this game with CG will give a major boost to an already very strong SoS. But 10-5-3 gets dicey especially if WPI doesn't jump Babson or CG in the regional rankings.
CG also will have a 2-0 H2H advantage over WPI.
CG 2 WPI 0 Final
I'm surprised there aren't more frequent serious injuries with the take the ball to the corner strategy. I mean there are 3 or 4 players desperately hacking at you to get the ball, and the aggression escalates the longer the strategy is "successful." I mean everyone does it, from HS to college to the EPL to the WC...but I'm not convinced it kills that much time compared to other ways and I'd be really hesitant to put my best and most valuable players in that role.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 02, 2021, 07:58:05 PM
CG 2 WPI 0 Final
I'm surprised there aren't more frequent serious injuries with the take the ball to the corner strategy. I mean there are 3 or 4 players desperately hacking at you to get the ball, and the aggression escalates the longer the strategy is "successful." I mean everyone does it, from HS to college to the EPL to the WC...but I'm not convinced it kills that much time compared to other ways and I'd be really hesitant to put my best and most valuable players in that role.
Injuries USUALLY occur when dudes/dudettes collide at pace. Kind of hard to hurt someone during a handbags/purses scrimmage in the corner.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 02, 2021, 08:02:44 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 02, 2021, 07:58:05 PM
CG 2 WPI 0 Final
I'm surprised there aren't more frequent serious injuries with the take the ball to the corner strategy. I mean there are 3 or 4 players desperately hacking at you to get the ball, and the aggression escalates the longer the strategy is "successful." I mean everyone does it, from HS to college to the EPL to the WC...but I'm not convinced it kills that much time compared to other ways and I'd be really hesitant to put my best and most valuable players in that role.
Injuries USUALLY occur when dudes/dudettes collide at pace. Kind of hard to hurt someone during a handbags/purses scrimmage in the corner.
LOL. I hear ya, but just the same I don't want to be the player in that corner.
Commonwealth Coast Conference Semifinal #2
Final-- Salve Regina 3, Roger Williams 0
The first goal came in the 38th minute from Alessandro Oggiano, and in the second half, a brace by Jacob Guerra in the 48th and 56th minutes punched the ticket to the championship game for the Seahawks.
Salve Regina (#3 seed) will host Gordon (#4 seed) on Saturday for the Commonwealth Coast Conference title and AQ.
Wow. Capital ends Wilmington's wonderful season, 4-3. 4th goal a header in the box out of nothing really, and goes in just inside the right post and again GK did not move. 3 goals in 12 or so minutes.
Let us not forget that W&L had Tufts 1-0 with 35 minutes to go in the Sweet 16 match in 2019. The last team that had a legitimate shot at defeating Tufts that year. Now if they haven't graduated a ton from that 2019 team they could remember what it will take to get over that hump.
St.John Fischer?? That is a Football school but nice to see the Men's Soccer team progressing.
I am shocked after a pretty successful out of conference schedule and Regional Ranking that Wheaton(MA) cannot even get into its own league tournament. Good to see one of Cush's sons on the Wheaton team and interested in getting into Coaching like his father.
There is no way WPI gets a Pool C. I say that knowing they are a quality team after watching them almost sneak out of Amherst with a result. There have already been too many upsets.
WNEC disappointed because they had some transfers including Coach O'Neil's son who now graduates.
Springfield is my sleeper pick for Newmac Championship with MIT getting a Pool C. Springfield is young and not a good Road team but I have a hunch they advance past Babson on Thursday and get back onto a turf field for the Final to Win it.
I think St.Joe's reign at the top of the GNAC will end with Norwich winning it this weekend.
It would be ironic if Norwich gets an AQ and Midd got a Pool C. They have played each other in the regular season nearly every year, but not this year. Perhaps Norwich and Midd will face each other in the NCAAs due to travel considerations. Obviously, there are a lot of "what if's" to get to that point.
My game of the day to watch this afternoon--
2 PM Eastern start-- Skyline Conference semifinal: (#6 seed) Yeshiva at (#2 seed) Mount St. Vincent.
At the beginning of the season, very few people in DIII soccer would have expected these two teams to be two wins away from the NCAAs at this stage, as both teams have historically been at the bottom of the Skyline Conference.
However, Mount St. Vincent under first year coach Tommy Mattera already has a program record 12 wins and a victory over NYU this season to boot. The victory over NYU did put the Dolphins on my personal radar to watch to see whether they can win the AQ. The Dolphins earned a first round bye to reach the semifinals.
On the other side, we have the Yeshiva Maccabees, a DIII school that is more noted for their top 25 men's basketball team than for any other sport. Yeshiva is only in their second conference tournament in program history, and has advanced to reach the conference semifinals for the first time ever thanks to coming from 2-0 down in the last 5 minutes of regulation to force the match with Farmingdale State to a draw and then prevailing on kicks from the mark.
The two programs last met on September 5 at Yeshiva, and the game went to golden goal extra time. Mount St. Vincent won the match 2-1 on a golden goal in the second extra time period.
Yeshiva is providing the live stats for this match, while Mount St. Vincent is producing the video.
Later this evening in the other semifinal, Merchant Marine faces Manhattanville, with the winner of that one facing the Yeshiva/Mt. St. Vincent winner. If Mount St. Vincent wins, then the championship game will be on Saturday. If Yeshiva wins this afternoon, then the Skyline Conference final will be played on Sunday due to observance of Shabbat.
2:24 PM Eastern-- In the first half, at least one Mount St. Vincent player already had to be subbed due to injury. The referee has just given a yellow card to Yeshiva's Marc Ziarno, and now a yellow card has been issued to Mt.St. Vincent's Alejandro Rodriguez. In the 22nd minute, Yeshiva has already committed 4 fouls to Mount St Vincent's one, which was hard enough to warrant a yellow card.
Yeah, that games is a bit hard to watch. Really a lack of overall care for the opposition in a LOT of the challenges. Looks like a battle of attrition.
ETA - And now during half-time the MSV coaches are in a lengthy conversation with all 4 of the officials. I'm not watching close enough to know why, but this went on for a solid 5 minutes. Broke amicably enough with a bro-hug, but I'm surprised the center ref allowed that to go on so long.
Halftime--
Yeshiva 0, Mount St Vincent 0
A lot of stoppage time in the first half due to the fouling, players going down temporarily, players being subbed due to injuries, and a few yellow cards being awarded.
This is definitely looking like a battle of attrition.....
First half stats--
Yeshiva leading on shots, 11-6, and in shots on target, 5-2.
Mount St. Vincent leading on corners, 3-1.
Yeshiva called twice for offsides vs Mount St. Vincent's one.
Yeshiva committed 6 fouls to Mount St. Vincent's 2.
In the booking department, 2 yellow cards have been given to Yeshiva, and one yellow card has been given to Mount St. Vincent.
In the regular season matchup at Yeshiva, the first half also was scoreless, with the goals starting to come in the second half.
3:10 PM Eastern update-- Second half is under way....
End of regulation
Yeshiva 0, Mount St. Vincent 0
This match is going to golden goal extra time, just like the match in the regular season. However, earlier in the season, Yeshiva and Mount St Vincent were deadlocked at 1 goal a piece.
Yeshiva leading in shots, 15-9, and in shots on target, 7-3. Both teams are even on corners at 3 a piece.
Yeshiva called 3 times for offsides to Mount St Vincent's 1.
Yeshiva committed 13 fouls to Mount St Vincent's 8.
Just one yellow card awarded in the second half-- Both teams even on yellows at 2 a piece.
4:15 PM Eastern-- After 1 period of extra time, this match is still scoreless at 0-0. Seems more likely that we could be heading to kicks from the mark to determine which team moves on rather than this match being decided by a golden goal.
What a great field at St. Olaf (and excellent video quality). If you're gonna have a turf field this is the way to go...like Hope, CMU, etc.
1-1 with St John's in 2nd half.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 03, 2021, 04:18:37 PM
What a great field at St. Olaf (and excellent video quality). If you're gonna have a turf field this is the way to go...like Hope, CMU, etc.
1-1 with St John's in 2nd half.
wow you aren't kidding !
Golden goal scored on a penalty kick by Mount St. Vincent in the 107th minute.
In the 107th minute, Yeshiva was called for a handball in the box, and it took at least 5 minutes of stoppage to set up the penalty kick.
In the process, a yellow card was given to Yeshiva's Naor Dahan, and a foul was called on Yeshiva's Marc Ziarno.
After what seemed like forever to set it up, Mount St. Vincent's Carlos Romero converts the penalty kick to win the game and send the Dolphins to the Skyline Conference championship game, which will be played on Saturday vs the winner of Merchant Marine vs Manhattanville.
The season continues on for the Mount St. Vincent Dolphins, as they are now 1 win away from the NCAAs.
It will be the first appearance in the conference title game in program history for Mount St. Vincent.
Gorgeous left-footed strike by #16 for St Olaf who in prior 15-20 had botched several plays including putting a corner out of bounds. 2-1 St Olaf.
Quote from: deiscanton on November 03, 2021, 04:33:38 PM
Golden goal scored on a penalty kick by Mount St. Vincent in the 107th minute.
In the 107th minute, Yeshiva was called for a handball in the box, and it took at least 5 minutes of stoppage to set up the penalty kick.
In the process, a yellow card was given to Yeshiva's Naor Dahan, and a foul was called on Yeshiva's Marc Ziarno.
After what seemed like forever to set it up, Mount St. Vincent's Carlos Romero converts the penalty kick to win the game and send the Dolphins to the Skyline Conference championship game, which will be played on Saturday vs the winner of Merchant Marine vs Manhattanville.
The season continues on for the Mount St. Vincent Dolphins, as they are now 1 win away from the NCAAs.
Sorry I jumped the gun with my post. Did you catch all the nonsense after the game? Wowsers. Almost a fight btwn the players (a few separate instances) and then off-camera, but on-mic you could hear the MSV fans getting into it with Yeshiva.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 03, 2021, 04:33:38 PM
Golden goal scored on a penalty kick by Mount St. Vincent in the 107th minute.
In the 107th minute, Yeshiva was called for a handball in the box, and it took at least 5 minutes of stoppage to set up the penalty kick.
In the process, a yellow card was given to Yeshiva's Naor Dahan, and a foul was called on Yeshiva's Marc Ziarno.
After what seemed like forever to set it up, Mount St. Vincent's Carlos Romero converts the penalty kick to win the game and send the Dolphins to the Skyline Conference championship game, which will be played on Saturday vs the winner of Merchant Marine vs Manhattanville.
The season continues on for the Mount St. Vincent Dolphins, as they are now 1 win away from the NCAAs.
Sorry I jumped the gun with my post. Did you catch all the nonsense after the game? Wowsers. Almost a fight btwn the players (a few separate instances) and then off-camera, but on-mic you could hear the MSV fans getting into it with Yeshiva.
Yeah didn't sound like great crowd control and lots of profanities on the stream.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on November 03, 2021, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 03, 2021, 04:33:38 PM
Golden goal scored on a penalty kick by Mount St. Vincent in the 107th minute.
In the 107th minute, Yeshiva was called for a handball in the box, and it took at least 5 minutes of stoppage to set up the penalty kick.
In the process, a yellow card was given to Yeshiva's Naor Dahan, and a foul was called on Yeshiva's Marc Ziarno.
After what seemed like forever to set it up, Mount St. Vincent's Carlos Romero converts the penalty kick to win the game and send the Dolphins to the Skyline Conference championship game, which will be played on Saturday vs the winner of Merchant Marine vs Manhattanville.
The season continues on for the Mount St. Vincent Dolphins, as they are now 1 win away from the NCAAs.
Sorry I jumped the gun with my post. Did you catch all the nonsense after the game? Wowsers. Almost a fight btwn the players (a few separate instances) and then off-camera, but on-mic you could hear the MSV fans getting into it with Yeshiva.
Yeah didn't sound like great crowd control and lots of profanities on the stream.
It surely sounded ugly afterwards, and I was not really looking at the video on the screen after the penalty kick got converted.
Quote from: NEPAFAN on November 03, 2021, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 04:38:39 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 03, 2021, 04:33:38 PM
Golden goal scored on a penalty kick by Mount St. Vincent in the 107th minute.
In the 107th minute, Yeshiva was called for a handball in the box, and it took at least 5 minutes of stoppage to set up the penalty kick.
In the process, a yellow card was given to Yeshiva's Naor Dahan, and a foul was called on Yeshiva's Marc Ziarno.
After what seemed like forever to set it up, Mount St. Vincent's Carlos Romero converts the penalty kick to win the game and send the Dolphins to the Skyline Conference championship game, which will be played on Saturday vs the winner of Merchant Marine vs Manhattanville.
The season continues on for the Mount St. Vincent Dolphins, as they are now 1 win away from the NCAAs.
Sorry I jumped the gun with my post. Did you catch all the nonsense after the game? Wowsers. Almost a fight btwn the players (a few separate instances) and then off-camera, but on-mic you could hear the MSV fans getting into it with Yeshiva.
Yeah didn't sound like great crowd control and lots of profanities on the stream.
Yeah, I had the LVC - Alvernia game on another stream and that was a) just a much better feed and b) a much better game. Pretty easy to mute the MSV game because the fans are, like, right on the mic. And very annoying.
Anyways, I should clarify... getting into it physically, it sounded like. As I was moving on with my day, I could see what appeared to be MSV administrators (?) jogging over to the Yeshiva bench with concern on their faces.
#16 for St Olaf from Costa Rica and went to the Williston Northampton School in Massachusetts. Not sure how no New England schools picked him up. An outstanding left back is from France.
This below is from website regarding former D3 NPOY Travis Wall, the St Olaf coach...
What Others Are Saying About Coach Wall
"Congratulations to St. Olaf College on a fantastic hire in Travis Wall. Travis was a tremendous player and is now a prepared and talented up-and-coming coach. With Travis' pedigree and experience, he will transition well to leading the men's program at St. Olaf to exciting things in the MIAC and North region." – Brandon Bianco (Head Men's Soccer Coach, Case Western Reserve University)
"Travis possesses all the values on and off the field to complement St. Olaf College and the athletic department with a men's soccer program to be proud of. His pedigree as a player and coach speaks for itself and the experience he brings will surely enhance each student-athlete's experience." – Jon Lowery (Head Men's Soccer Coach, University of St. Thomas)
"Travis is a shooting star in the world of college soccer. He has been part of tremendous success on various levels as his understanding of the game, his passion for coaching and his ability to connect with players are top notch. St. Olaf's men's soccer program is in wonderful hands." – Eric Nichols (Head Men's Soccer Coach, Bowling Green State University)
"Travis has been successful at every level of soccer as a player and coach. That will not change at St. Olaf. He will be great." – Dr. Jay Martin (Head Men's Soccer Coach, Ohio Wesleyan University)
And speaking of that LVC - Alvernia game, LVC takes a 2-1 win.
But, at the very end with 3 seconds left, Alvernia had free kick and dumped it into the box. The Alv. goalie had come forward and after the final whistle, while he and an LVC player were a little tangled up, he donkey-kicked the heck out of the LVC kid. Alvernia had players from the bench coming in to start more trouble.
C'mon guys. Pull it together.
Anyone watching the Hope/Kalamazoo game? WTH is the guy on the sideline at the 50 doing with all his hand signals?
Quote from: Ejay on November 03, 2021, 06:16:10 PM
Anyone watching the Hope/Kalamazoo game? WTH is the guy on the sideline at the 50 doing with all his hand signals?
IDK, but seems to be working. KZoo goes up 1-0 with 9 min left in 1st half.
If I'm Messiah's coach, I'm all over the officials about Stevenson's GK kit. C'mon.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 07:03:04 PM
If I'm Messiah's coach, I'm all over the officials about Stevenson's GK kit. C'mon.
I'm not watching it - what's the issue?
OWU, ranked #2 in the country by D3soccer.com is obviously a big favorite tonight under the lights versus Denison, but that said, Denison is hungry and the dynamic is fascinating with OWU product Bianco leading Denison to its best season in a decade. The moment won't be too big for Bianco and I'm sure he has the Big Red pumped up to the max. If they could get a win that might tip them more solidly into Pool C range if they were unable to complete the OWU-Kenyon double.
0-0 under 8 min in 1st half.
Noteworthy that two Jay Martin disciples, Bianco and Wall at St Olaf, are leading their respective teams to their best seasons in years (probably best season ever for St Olaf).
Quote from: OldNed on November 03, 2021, 07:08:00 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 07:03:04 PM
If I'm Messiah's coach, I'm all over the officials about Stevenson's GK kit. C'mon.
I'm not watching it - what's the issue?
Sorry to vague-post. His team is wearing a dark blue kit, he is wearing a slightly less bold, blue kit. Messiah is in white, blue shoulders.
The zoomed in shots shows it's probably not much of an issue, it just bugs me when goalies aren't more distinct from the two kits on the field.
/get off my lawn
Denison gets to the half 0-0 after surviving a flurry of OWU corners, but they also had some good chances. Denison showed up.
Randolph went up 1-0 on W&L but the Generals leveled off the foot of Charlotte product, Samuel Bass.
KZoo just went up 2-0 on Hope with 11 to go.
Big night of soccer.
W&L tied 1-1 with Randolph. It's a hard fought game, fun to watch.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 03, 2021, 07:48:39 PM
Randolph went up 1-0 on W&L but the Generals leveled off the foot of Charlotte product, Samuel Bass.
KZoo just went up 2-0 on Hope with 11 to go.
Big night of soccer.
I've been remiss in not watching W&L... Looking forward to the second half.
Messiah is absolutely hammering the Stevenson goal but only up 1=0 at half. Really should be, conservatively, 3-0. Expect the Falcs to coast to a 3 or 4 goal shutout win. Stevenson has struggled to cross the center stripe.
Skyline Conference semifinal #2-- Halftime
Manhattanville 1, Merchant Marine 0
The Valiants score in the 45th minute on a penalty kick goal from Eli Pardo-- Pardo converted the penalty kick with 9 seconds remaining in the half.
Winner plays Mount St. Vincent on Saturday.
Update-- That scoreline is indeed how the game ended. It will be Mount St. Vincent at Manhattanville on Saturday for the Skyline Conference title and AQ.
KZoo 2 Hope 0 Final
Assuming Calvin prevails tonight I give KZoo at least a puncher's chance but also very possible they have played themselves on to the bubble to contend for a Pool C. SoS is gonna jump quite a bit after playing Hope and let's assume Calvin, plus a 2-0 H2H advantage over Hope, and Hope picking up two ranked losses they didn't have this week.
And I just heard in the background that Rowan scored to go up 1-0 on Montclair early in 2nd half.
The old change up in a muddy 6 yard box by Randolph results in a goal and a 2-1 lead early in the second half. Should be an entertaining last 40 minutes.
Over/under on cards the rest of the Rowan-MSU match???
Losing the starting goalie has been brutal for W&L. The last 4.5 games (counting Randolph so far), the Generals have recorded 5 saves and given up 5 goals. So every other shot on goal has resulted in a score in the last 9 halfs. Combine that with difficulty finishing, and it might be the story of their season.
Huh. Never want to be unfair and make a snap judgement but... Not sure I understand how W&L is the #1 team in the country. They are VERY direct and seem to rely on opening the defense with 1v1 play. If you stay disciplined and keep them off their dominate foot (I'm talking about the 4 or 5 dudes that run the offense) they don't seem to have answers.
Let me see more, but so far, good/not great team.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 08:29:25 PM
Huh. Never want to be unfair and make a snap judgement but... Not sure I understand how W&L is the #1 team in the country. They are VERY direct and seem to rely on opening the defense with 1v1 play. If you stay disciplined and keep them off their dominate foot (I'm talking about the 4 or 5 dudes that run the offense) they don't seem to have answers.
Let me see more, but so far, good/not great team.
To be fair... they seem to be panicking at the moment. This is not the way W&L has played all season. I've seen more long balls and bad touches this second half than the other games I've watched combined I think. But yeah, looking ugly right now.
Spicy down in Lexington, folks!!!
2-2 with 13 left to play.
Electric.
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2021, 08:27:16 PM
Losing the starting goalie has been brutal for W&L. The last 4.5 games (counting Randolph so far), the Generals have recorded 5 saves and given up 5 goals. So every other shot on goal has resulted in a score in the last 9 halfs. Combine that with difficulty finishing, and it might be the story of their season.
Dude just squibbed a GK. As that is my craft, I can tell you that is almost always due to some version of nerves.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 08:40:23 PM
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2021, 08:27:16 PM
Losing the starting goalie has been brutal for W&L. The last 4.5 games (counting Randolph so far), the Generals have recorded 5 saves and given up 5 goals. So every other shot on goal has resulted in a score in the last 9 halfs. Combine that with difficulty finishing, and it might be the story of their season.
Dude just squibbed a GK. As that is my craft, I can tell you that is almost always due to some version of nerves.
yeah. I kind of swallowed my tongue when I saw that. I hate being critical of individual players. It's D3. Unfortunately goalies always stand out. Hero or Goat is the curse of the position.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 08:37:48 PM
Spicy down in Lexington, folks!!!
2-2 with 13 left to play.
Electric.
Good build up from W&L on that goal starting from the free kick, but overall I agree, they don't look like the best team in the nation.
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2021, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 08:29:25 PM
Huh. Never want to be unfair and make a snap judgement but... Not sure I understand how W&L is the #1 team in the country. They are VERY direct and seem to rely on opening the defense with 1v1 play. If you stay disciplined and keep them off their dominate foot (I'm talking about the 4 or 5 dudes that run the offense) they don't seem to have answers.
Let me see more, but so far, good/not great team.
To be fair... they seem to be panicking at the moment. This is not the way W&L has played all season. I've seen more long balls and bad touches this second half than the other games I've watched combined I think. But yeah, looking ugly right now.
Yeah, I've seen enough. This team needs to meditate and get right with their inner being because there is no way they get out of the opening weekend playing like this.
Tufts, but even more so Messiah, are my gold standards for teams with templates that produce results in November. This W&L team just doesn't have it. I see the skill and the athleticism, but way too many of their midfielders and defenders are just launching balls with no intention. Messiah, in particular, always has dangerous and effective intent. You are in the semis of the ODAC. This is not THAT big of a deal as the #1 team in the country.
Lots of talk on this board over the years about how you build a culture of swagger. They need more time and experience to get there.
And Denison pulls it off. Enormous win for Denison. Bianco already has earned a raise.
And Rowan outlasts MSU, including a flurry in the box last 30 secs and a shot on the underside of the crossbar.
And don't tell me Trine is gonna get by Calvin...haven't beaten the Knights since 1847.
And the Generals get called for a PK with 26.5 seconds left in the first OT to lose to Randolph. Just a bad night for the Generals.
Down goes "#1". What a win for Randolph. There goes one at large bid.
And the Pool Cs are flying out the door. OWU, Montclair, W&L....
Bigger win...Denison over OWU or Randolph over W&L?
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 08:48:06 PM
I see the skill and the athleticism, but way too many of their midfielders and defenders are just launching balls with no intention.
I agree this is a weakness of the team.
OMG....Or Trine over Calvin???? 1-0 Trine in OT Final.
OWU, W&L, MSU, Calvin....
I do want to say, as a very neutral observer... The Randolph fans traveled really well and that atmosphere was amazing.
Good job from the two-man announcing crew. It's hard not to get caught up in that.
(Watched a few minutes of the Kings vs. Misery game and, while I appreciate the enthusiasm, the PbP guy was so over the top I had to mute because Throw-ins were called like goals... And he kept saying "he sweeps the leg" on goal kicks and it was driving me nuts. This isn't The Karate Kid, broseph.)
The instinct is to overreact. W&L lost their first game of the season. They are in very good company tonight. This may take a little pressure off. I think they'll be fine, just like OWU, Calvin, and maybe MSU (as you never know with MSU)...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 03, 2021, 09:21:53 PM
The instinct is to overreact. W&L lost their first game of the season. They are in very good company tonight. This may take a little pressure off. I think they'll be fine, just like OWU, Calvin, and maybe MSU (as you never know with MSU)...
Good counsel. I just was waiting for a team that has almost run the table at #1 and saw a LOT of lack of composure. It's one thing to bow out of NESCAC and not get run ragged. This feels different.
I DID see a ton of potential danger and talent. But I'm also with jk in thinking their achilles heel si in the net. Dude is shaky.
North Park locked up 1-1 with Wheaton early in 2nd half.....
Also keep an eye on Chapman vs C-M-S at 10:00...
And btw, Defiance upset Rose-Hulman in the HCAC.
Last thing from me tonight: jk had some really interesting comments in the other thread about using your regular season to build towards November. I'd say that, at this point, W&L is in danger of overvaluing the regular season and hasn't built a mentality for November.
Now, I'm going to assume they will host a pod at home and not have the zany Randolph fans show up. But. Still. They need to get settled and come up with a better/sustainable plan.
How about Oswego taking out Oneonta and New Paltz to earn their way into the SUNYAC championship game. Lots of Pool C chaos in the east with 4 RR teams getting upset in the early rounds of conference tournaments.
I'm really looking forward to next year and the poll. North Park has a purpose.
It's really hard to articulate. Some teams just impose their will. Wheaton is a fine team. They are not at the level of NP.
9 man Chapman trying to hold on for 10 more minutes versus C-M-S. Would be another big upset tonight.
It's like defending a power play in hockey for an entire period or more.
Wow. Chapman played with 10 men since the 14th min and 9 men since the 53rd min. Held on 1-0 until under a minute when CMS finally converted on beautiful header off a corner.
Going OT, but how can Chapman possibly last another 20 min?
They gave up the equalizer in the final minute. The two red cards they got were really stupid decisions by the Chapman players to go in on the tackles they went in on.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 03, 2021, 10:09:02 PM
I'm really looking forward to next year and the poll. North Park has a purpose.
It's really hard to articulate. Some teams just impose their will. Wheaton is a fine team. They are not at the level of NP.
Small consolation for NPU, which was sloppy in the back in overtime and paid for it with an upset loss. While I think that Wheaton earned it, mostly because Wheaton GK Hasten Biddlecome was absolutely phenomenal tonight despite taking continuous fire throughout the last fifteen minutes of regulation, NPU put itself on the wrong foot. As a result the Vikings lost to a Wheaton team that they should've beaten handily, even though Wheaton started eight seniors tonight who played like their kits would have to be torn off of their backs.
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 04, 2021, 12:11:06 AM
They gave up the equalizer in the final minute. The two red cards they got were really stupid decisions by the Chapman players to go in on the tackles they went in on.
CMS wins it in 2nd OT on a goal with less than 2 minutes remaining.
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 04, 2021, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 04, 2021, 12:11:06 AM
They gave up the equalizer in the final minute. The two red cards they got were really stupid decisions by the Chapman players to go in on the tackles they went in on.
CMS wins it in 2nd OT on a goal with less than 2 minutes remaining.
Brutal for Chapman....went 55+ minutes with 9 men...more amazing than when UMass-Boston survived and won PKs vs Haverford. Less than a minute to go for the win in regulation...then 17 more minutes and less than 3 to go when CMS scored again.
There have been so many upsets that teams that looked safe at the start of the week better win this weekend. I think Wesleyan is now in real trouble. Midd also might need another result especially if Colby can Win the Nescac Championship for the 2nd time in 4 years.
Quick note to my East Region friends is that it looks like after years of getting into the NCAA's UR has been effectively blocked by SUNY New Paltz and SUNY Oneonta in the 3rd Rankings sheet. I swear that these committee's have been using blockers for years now. They know which teams will not come off the board with New Paltz and Oneonta not going to come off the board and since ahead of UR it will effectively "block" them.
UR has barely won half their games. At 8-3-4, and a losing record in the conference, they don't deserve to advance IMO. Even if they beat Emory and are 9-3-4, I'm not taking them.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 04, 2021, 12:42:27 AM
There have been so many upsets that teams that looked safe at the start of the week better win this weekend. I think Wesleyan is now in real trouble. Midd also might need another result especially if Colby can Win the Nescac Championship for the 2nd time in 4 years.
Quick note to my East Region friends is that it looks like after years of getting into the NCAA's UR has been effectively blocked by SUNY New Paltz and SUNY Oneonta in the 3rd Rankings sheet. I swear that these committee's have been using blockers for years now. They know which teams will not come off the board with New Paltz and Oneonta not going to come off the board and since ahead of UR it will effectively "block" them.
Rochester's result vs CWRU, which was a RvR for purposes for making the Week 3 regional rankings, is no longer an RvR since CWRU is not ranked in Region VI this week. No big loss if UR doesn't get in-- just drawing with Brandeis over the past weekend doesn't really cut it for the Yellowjackets. UR needed at least 1 or 2 wins vs Wash U, Chicago, or NYU. Rochester's only 2 UAA wins have been vs unranked teams-- Rochester's only 2 ranked wins have been over non-conference teams in their evaluation region, and their tie over a ranked team is vs a non-conference team ranked in a currently low position in Region VII, so their resume is not really a completely strong Pool C resume. Other teams in the region could get better DIII results vs Rochester's common DIII opponents as well. If New Paltz and Oneonta performed better vs Rochester's common DIII opponents, they should be ranked higher.
I need another word besides 'wow.' We could have a million followers here and not a single ballot would have predicted the combo of results we got yesterday.
Let's re-group and assess the carnage. Can't recall a year when the RRs inclusive of the 3rd week are potentially so volatile.
Automatic to near-automatic Pool Cs are already Amherst, Montclair, W&L, OWU, North Park, and Calvin.
Teams with decent to very high RRs likely on the bubble/in trouble....Wesleyan (#5 in Region 1), WPI (currently #1 in Region 2), Vassar (currently #2 in Region 3), Oneonta (currently #3 in Region 3), New Paltz (currently #4 in Region 3), Rochester (#5 in Region 3), Rutgers-Newark (#4 in Region 4), Swat (#5 in Region 5), Hope (#6 in Region 8), Gustavus Adolphus (#2 in Region 9), and maybe Bowdoin (#6 in Region 1). Those RRs could jump quite a bit. For example WPI and Vassar could go from #1 and #2 rankings to no bid, and Rochester especially with a win this weekend surely could jump Oneonta or New Paltz or both.
Then add 3 UAAs (besides Rochester), 2-3 from NESCAC especially if Colby stuns (Tufts/Conn/Midd), a couple from Centennial (F&M/Hopkins/Gettysburg, Wash Coll), maybe 1-2 from NEWMAC (other than WPI, between Babson, Coast Guard, MIT), CNU/Mary Wash loser, Kenyon/Denison loser, possibly Lynchburg, possibly C-M-S , and 1-2 from OAC (JCU, Otterbein, ONU).
Am I missing any other major candidates?
C-M-S barely, barely survived last night versus 9 man Chapman after being down 1-0 with less than a minute to play. The Stags are undefeated in D3 play, but if they falter against Redlands this weekend (another good team that is in a probably must-win situation given their low RR), they could be in trouble. Currently C-M-S sits at #3 behind Mary Hardin-Baylor. If MHB wins their AQ then C-M-S is probably fine and I suppose could jump MHB in the event of a MHB loss, but otherwise C-M-S potentially could be blocked from getting to the table if the West doesn't go up to or beyond MHB.
Perennial conference champs Rose Hulman and PS-Behrend went down as well.
I think calling W&L shaky, after the last 2 games, is being kind. I don't know if they finally felt the pressure or what, but the two ODAC tournament games were not good execution. I said weeks ago when they went to #1 I wondered how they would hold up and I'm thinking we saw the breaking point. Many of us have said teams like Messiah, Tufts, Amherst have an advantage in that the program, and the players in the program, have an earned arrogance that shows up on every night. They've been there, done that, and absolutely know, in their core, they can do it again. I don't think the Generals have that arrogance yet, and to me it showed in their play the last 2 games.
I'm actually hopeful that this will be a good kick in the pants for the Generals. They can regroup before the tournament. Maybe they host, maybe they don't. Not hosting maybe gives them a chip on their shoulder. But I saw a team the last two games that was mentally struggling. Talent to make a deep run? Yes. Confidence and execution? Not in the last couple games. Not even close.
Quote from: jknezek on November 04, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
I think calling W&L shaky, after the last 2 games, is being kind. I don't know if they finally felt the pressure or what, but the two ODAC tournament games were not good execution. I said weeks ago when they went to #1 I wondered how they would hold up and I'm thinking we saw the breaking point. Many of us have said teams like Messiah, Tufts, Amherst have an advantage in that the program, and the players in the program, have an earned arrogance that shows up on every night. They've been there, done that, and absolutely know, in their core, they can do it again. I don't think the Generals have that arrogance yet, and to me it showed in their play the last 2 games.
I'm actually hopeful that this will be a good kick in the pants for the Generals. They can regroup before the tournament. Maybe they host, maybe they don't. Not hosting maybe gives them a chip on their shoulder. But I saw a team the last two games that was mentally struggling. Talent to make a deep run? Yes. Confidence and execution? Not in the last couple games. Not even close.
People forget that when Tufts won their first one they had zero pressure. They seemingly came out of nowhere and iirc weren't even ranked in the polls or if so it was pretty low, so to their credit they bypassed the burden and pressure of trying to break through initially as a new front-runner. Amherst is actually a better example of the burden/pressure because they were expected to get to the Final Four and win a title well before they did, including I think one year when they were undefeated and failed in PKs versus Williams (I might have that detail wrong but the point remains).
I know folks get sick of me talking about Kenyon but as I noted 6-8 weeks ago, the Lords are the closest recent example to W&L with F&M also in the conversation. Kenyon was #2 for much of 2014 and #1 for much of 2015, and very highly ranked for most of 2016. They had great success, finally beating OWU in 2014 after inching closer with a few draws, only to draw OWU in the Sweet 16 two weeks later which is not what you want after finally, finally beating your nemesis, and then the game delayed by a day due to ice storm, injuries, etc, and suddenly your wonder season is over. Then two back to back Elite 8s in games that easily the Lords could have won in 2015 and 2016. And some very strong seasons since then, but for the most part instead of noting the program having massive success the lingering impression is one of a program that can't/hasn't broken through.
Anyway, the fact that W&L has risen to heights where they were even in a position to be ranked #1 is amazing, and hopefully they will break through, but it's unfortunate that breaking through is defined in a pretty narrow way, and incredible program success can get turned on itself and become a burden in its own right.
Paul I don't think Calvin is anywhere near a lock to get in sitting at number 5 in their region. I have a feeling North Central may be sitting on the board for a long time which means Calvin may not ever come up for discussion.
Quote from: jknezek on November 04, 2021, 10:09:13 AM
I think calling W&L shaky, after the last 2 games, is being kind. I don't know if they finally felt the pressure or what, but the two ODAC tournament games were not good execution. I said weeks ago when they went to #1 I wondered how they would hold up and I'm thinking we saw the breaking point. Many of us have said teams like Messiah, Tufts, Amherst have an advantage in that the program, and the players in the program, have an earned arrogance that shows up on every night. They've been there, done that, and absolutely know, in their core, they can do it again. I don't think the Generals have that arrogance yet, and to me it showed in their play the last 2 games.
I'm actually hopeful that this will be a good kick in the pants for the Generals. They can regroup before the tournament. Maybe they host, maybe they don't. Not hosting maybe gives them a chip on their shoulder. But I saw a team the last two games that was mentally struggling. Talent to make a deep run? Yes. Confidence and execution? Not in the last couple games. Not even close.
As always, I agree with you. Earlier in the season they played with flow and almost a kind of magic, and that's disappeared.
I also think this loss may be a wake up call; and if anyone can improve a team's mentality, surely a professor of sports psychology can!
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.
That's a pretty remarkable stat!
Just shows how dominant Messiah was. 10 of 13 and then 11 of 16.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.
That's a pretty remarkable stat!
There are more dynasties in D3 sports than not in my opinion. Men's soccer actually does fairly well compared to other sports, but there is no doubting the Messiah dynasty, especially with my thoughts on soccer not really being a tournament game. An incredible achievement, but not particularly rare in D3. Look at wrestling, 2 champions going back to '94, football just recently added NCC and UMHB after a long duopoly, men's swimming has 3 or 4 champions going back 20 years. NCC in men's cross country. UW-Lax in men's track is a longtime force.
Baseball, men's basketball, men's tennis are fairly diverse with schools being streaky for a few years, but different schools every few years. And that leaves out some of the smaller sports where a few schools really dominate.
Anyway, this is D3. I think, more than any other division, there are ways to create long standing dynasties. Scholarships and scholarship caps are pretty good at spreading out talent at the other NCAA divisions, though obviously we still see dynasties. But in D3, there are all kinds of ways to, within the rules, emphasize one sport, or all sports. It takes a lot of institutional will, and money, and a bit of lightning in the bottle with a coach and recruiting to get established, but with the right will and the right coaching tree, it can be passed on for quite a while.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.
That's a pretty remarkable stat!
It actually isn't.
Here's how many champions other D3 sports have had over that same 24-year span:
Baseball: 17
Basketball (men): 15
Basketball (women): 13
Cross-country (men): 10
Cross-country (women): 9
Field hockey: 10
Football: 7
Golf (men): 14
Golf (women): 6
Ice hockey (men): 10
Ice hockey (women): 6
Indoor track & field (men): 6
Indoor track & field (women): 10
Lacrosse (men): 9
Lacrosse (women): 9
Outdoor track & field (men): 7
Outdoor track & field (women): 12
Rowing: 6
Soccer (women): 12
Softball: 17
Swimming & diving (men): 3
Swimming & diving (women): 3
Tennis (men): 10
Tennis (women): 9
Volleyball (men): 4
Volleyball (women): 14
Wrestling: 2
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:37:07 AM
Paul I don't think Calvin is anywhere near a lock to get in sitting at number 5 in their region. I have a feeling North Central may be sitting on the board for a long time which means Calvin may not ever come up for discussion.
Understood, but good chance North Central gets the AQ. I will say the Trine game doesn't help the SoS. Even a loss with North Central would have provided a big boost there. I'm gonna guess Calvin gets in especially if Chicago or Wash U gets the UAA AQ.
My bad....lost my mind for a second. Calvin wouldn't play North Central, but to a lesser degree a game with Hope or KZoo would have helped SoS just a bit.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2021, 01:13:53 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.
That's a pretty remarkable stat!
It actually isn't.
Here's how many champions other D3 sports have had over that same 24-year span:
Baseball: 17
Basketball (men): 15
Basketball (women): 13
Cross-country (men): 10
Cross-country (women): 9
Field hockey: 10
Football: 7
Golf (men): 14
Golf (women): 6
Ice hockey (men): 10
Ice hockey (women): 6
Indoor track & field (men): 6
Indoor track & field (women): 10
Lacrosse (men): 9
Lacrosse (women): 9
Outdoor track & field (men): 7
Outdoor track & field (women): 12
Rowing: 6
Soccer (women): 12
Softball: 17
Swimming & diving (men): 3
Swimming & diving (women): 3
Tennis (men): 10
Tennis (women): 9
Volleyball (men): 4
Volleyball (women): 14
Wrestling: 2
I find dynasties and that level of consistent success remarkable. I didn't say unprecedented. :-)
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 04, 2021, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 04, 2021, 01:13:53 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 04, 2021, 12:29:18 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 04, 2021, 12:19:34 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:58:04 AM
Only 2 of the last 6 National Champions have won their conference tournament. Something to be said for sitting home angry and healing up the nicks and bruises you pick up over the season.
There have only been 8 Champions in the past 24years... shows you how very hard it is to actually climb the mountain.
That's a pretty remarkable stat!
It actually isn't.
Here's how many champions other D3 sports have had over that same 24-year span:
Baseball: 17
Basketball (men): 15
Basketball (women): 13
Cross-country (men): 10
Cross-country (women): 9
Field hockey: 10
Football: 7
Golf (men): 14
Golf (women): 6
Ice hockey (men): 10
Ice hockey (women): 6
Indoor track & field (men): 6
Indoor track & field (women): 10
Lacrosse (men): 9
Lacrosse (women): 9
Outdoor track & field (men): 7
Outdoor track & field (women): 12
Rowing: 6
Soccer (women): 12
Softball: 17
Swimming & diving (men): 3
Swimming & diving (women): 3
Tennis (men): 10
Tennis (women): 9
Volleyball (men): 4
Volleyball (women): 14
Wrestling: 2
I find dynasties and that level of consistent success remarkable. I didn't say unprecedented. :-)
I think that jk hit the nail on the head:
Quote from: jknezek on November 04, 2021, 01:01:20 PM
There are more dynasties in D3 sports than not in my opinion. Men's soccer actually does fairly well compared to other sports, but there is no doubting the Messiah dynasty, especially with my thoughts on soccer not really being a tournament game. An incredible achievement, but not particularly rare in D3. Look at wrestling, 2 champions going back to '94, football just recently added NCC and UMHB after a long duopoly, men's swimming has 3 or 4 champions going back 20 years. NCC in men's cross country. UW-Lax in men's track is a longtime force.
Baseball, men's basketball, men's tennis are fairly diverse with schools being streaky for a few years, but different schools every few years. And that leaves out some of the smaller sports where a few schools really dominate.
Anyway, this is D3. I think, more than any other division, there are ways to create long standing dynasties. Scholarships and scholarship caps are pretty good at spreading out talent at the other NCAA divisions, though obviously we still see dynasties. But in D3, there are all kinds of ways to, within the rules, emphasize one sport, or all sports. It takes a lot of institutional will, and money, and a bit of lightning in the bottle with a coach and recruiting to get established, but with the right will and the right coaching tree, it can be passed on for quite a while.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 04, 2021, 01:15:52 PM
Quote from: d4_Pace on November 04, 2021, 11:37:07 AM
Paul I don't think Calvin is anywhere near a lock to get in sitting at number 5 in their region. I have a feeling North Central may be sitting on the board for a long time which means Calvin may not ever come up for discussion.
Understood, but good chance North Central gets the AQ. I will say the Trine game doesn't help the SoS. Even a loss with North Central would have provided a big boost there. I'm gonna guess Calvin gets in especially if Chicago or Wash U gets the UAA AQ.
My bad....lost my mind for a second. Calvin wouldn't play North Central, but to a lesser degree a game with Hope or KZoo would have helped SoS just a bit.
Again....."blocking".....I bet you can "block" without making it look like you are blocking maliciously by pumping up the blocking team without even mentioning the team to be blocked.
Quote from: Ejay on November 04, 2021, 07:46:25 AM
UR has barely won half their games. At 8-3-4, and a losing record in the conference, they don't deserve to advance IMO. Even if they beat Emory and are 9-3-4, I'm not taking them.
Yes but in years past they would have been a lock already. So precisely my point. UAA and SUNYAC are different leagues top to bottom and with New Paltz and Oneonta struggling themselves I find it unusual for New Paltz to be ranked ahead of UR this late. New Paltz and probably Oneonta are NOT coming off the board and that was known before this week. Just saying a possible "block". We will see if UR beats Emory what happens
I really don't think there is a conspiracy theory to keep certain teams out. The coaches on the call are actively trying to figure out how to get as many teams from their region into the tournament and then make their ranks accordingly.
Not a conspiracy theory just a hunch that some of these guys have no problem sticking it to a HC they do not like. Like I said you technically could push to "block" by pumping up another program that will not get off the board but is close enough for no one to notice. I could be wrong but I could be right.......Nescac has mandated 4th Officials(not sure if this was mandated from Officials or League) for its games because of so much love between the HC's.....I have also wondered how teams "randomly" appear at the bottom of rankings. As we know the bottom half of these teams in the rankings are not coming off the board. So basically they technically could be used to pump up your teams RvR. Someone asked why Hamilton appeared this week in New England when they missed the Nescac Tournament. This hunch seems more of a stretch to me but certainly not impossible.
This is a pretty random thought, but if I'm head coach of one of these teams, I'm telling them to sit down. Rest your legs, boys. I get standing up in the 10 minutes of a tight game, but it just bugs me that these guys are up on their feet the entire game.
Otterbein v Ohio Northern---1-0 Otterbein in the 66th minute...Otterbein has not lost a game yet? I remember them in an NCAA Final up at SLU I think in 2002. Anyway this game could be a good finish.
Otterbein look very organized in a 4-4-2 and a good team especially on its turf.
FINAL: Otterbein 1-0 ONU
Otterbein has got to be one of the most underrated, under the radar unbeaten teams in a long time (other than teams in very weak conferences that run up strong records).
Maybe there is something to the coaching thing...Bianco at CWRU and now Denison, Wall at St Olaf, and Jason Griffiths at Otterbein, to name three.
Speaking of 33 year olds.....
Jason Griffiths enters his fifth season as head coach of the Otterbein men's soccer program in the fall of 2021.
Griffiths, 33, emerged from a pool of over 100 applicants and immediately resurrected the Cardinal program later that fall. He guided Otterbein to a 19-3 record, including a 17-match winning streak to go undefeated in the Ohio Athletic Conference (OAC) to claim both the regular-season and tournament titles. It was the program's first OAC trophy since 2003.
Griffiths earned OAC Coach of the Year honors as a result of his stellar inaugural year at the helm, where the Cards won NCAA first and second-round matches on their home field before dropping a Sweet 16 contest in Chicago. The group finished ranked No. 11 in the national poll and saw senior defender Jaden Lunger attract third team All-American honors.
His Cardinals earned a home game in the 2018 OAC Tournament, and then bounced back nicely in the fall of 2019 with a run to the OAC Tournament Championship at top seed John Carroll. The nationally-ranked Blue Streaks held off Otterbein, 1-0, for the second time that season. The Cardinals ultimately received a league-best eight All-OAC selections.
Griffiths joined Otterbein after three-plus years as a Senior Director of Coaching at Classics Eagles Soccer Club in Columbus, where he managed 30 coaches and teams, implemented year-round training sessions for all age groups, coached "elite teams" at regional/national events and spearheaded travel, presentation and summer camp responsibilities. He also served as an assistant coach for Otterbein from 2013-15, specializing in training and recruiting.
A native of Bracknell, England, Griffiths was a two-time all-conference and all-region selection at the University of Kentucky before being chosen by the New England Revolution with the 48th pick in the 2010 Major League Soccer SuperDraft. He played one professional season before suffering a tough injury and retiring.
In addition to his experience at Classics Eagles, Griffiths briefly served as an assistant at Kentucky before moving to Ohio and beginning local stints with Locker Soccer Academy and Individual Fitness Solutions.
Griffiths holds a United States Soccer Federation National "B" License along with his NSCAA level two goalkeeping certification.
He and his wife, Tara, who served as a graduate assistant for the Otterbein women's program in 2009 and 2010, currently reside in Dublin with their young sons, Blake and Jaxson.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 04, 2021, 04:48:51 PM
Otterbein look very organized in a 4-4-2 and a good team especially on its turf.
Especially after they scored, almost like a different team at that point.
Prediction....Calvin, Oneonta, and Rochester all get Pool Cs especially if UR gets a result this weekend. New Paltz is finished. ONU is almost certainly finished.
I'd hate to be on a cmte trying to deciding the final ranking (and a bid) among 2-3 of the NEWMAC and Centennial teams. The overall profiles are so close.
Will be interesting to see what happens with Rutgers-Newark as well. And Wesleyan, Vassar, and GAC. I think Denison probably falls just below those profiles if the lose Saturday, but they have picked up 2 ranked wins they didn't have 2 days ago.
John Carroll plays with PURPOSE. I like this squad (hate the field, sorry/not sorry.)
Um. Nice camera work JCU. Jeez.
Sorry. Capital with the opener, totally against the run of play. Camera had a weird moment and floated away from the play, so I'm not really sure what happened
Blue Streaks is a weird mascot. Like.. Smurfs with diarrhea?
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 04, 2021, 07:19:02 PM
Um. Nice camera work JCU. Jeez.
Sorry. Capital with the opener, totally against the run of play. Camera had a weird moment and floated away from the play, so I'm not really sure what happened
I wasn't watching then but at least the picture quality is very good...about the best I've seen for one of these football fields.
The LEC is to the NJAC as the NESCAC is to the IVY.
Babson at MIT for the NEWMAC Final on Saturday. PN is correct as WPI,MIT and Babson all have similar profiles. Coast Guard is finished even though they have a decent resume as well. I thought Babson looked more athletic and skilled v Springfield. Based on what I saw of MIT last night I would expect Babson to advance. WPI has the strongest profile IMO and they are a Last 4 In / First 4 out team.
There are a TON of Last 4 in / First 4 out teams across the country with similar profiles.
Midd
Wesleyan
WPI
Babson / MIT loser
Vassar
Oneonta
UR
Rowan
Hopkins
Swat
Calvin
Hope
GAC
M-H-B
Washington College----This is the turnaround story of the year IMO. Are they not usually in the Centennial basement?
Washington has certainly struggled over the years, especially in the 2000s. They seemed to have turned some kind of corner the last 10 years, as they are not a team you can take lightly, usually finishing a few games above or below .500 for a number of years now.
But, yes, like Ursinus, Washington is having one of their better years in quite some time in the Centennial.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2021, 09:48:06 AM
Washington has certainly struggled over the years, especially in the 2000s. They seemed to have turned some kind of corner the last 10 years, as they are not a team you can take lightly, usually finishing a few games above or below .500 for a number of years now.
But, yes, like Ursinus, Washington is having one of their better years in quite some time in the Centennial.
I've seen both teams this year ... Washington is pretty good, but ... I wasn't blown away by them. Ursinus was okay, but can't maintain their composure and their defense seemed suspect.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 05, 2021, 12:04:02 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2021, 09:48:06 AM
Washington has certainly struggled over the years, especially in the 2000s. They seemed to have turned some kind of corner the last 10 years, as they are not a team you can take lightly, usually finishing a few games above or below .500 for a number of years now.
But, yes, like Ursinus, Washington is having one of their better years in quite some time in the Centennial.
I've seen both teams this year ... Washington is pretty good, but ... I wasn't blown away by them. Ursinus was okay, but can't maintain their composure and their defense seemed suspect.
And as I suspected... Current HC Dunshee has been there 9 seasons, which lines up almost exactly with when they turned into a more competitive unit.
Headed to OT down in Fredericksburg in the C2C semis: Chris. Newport 1:1 UCSB
Second semi is UW-White(something) against hosts Mary Washington.
I know it's been brought up recently, but I hadn't really paid attention. Coast 2 Coast is a very "interesting" situation. And looking at the history and iterations of the league and teams involved, what a long strange trip it's been.
D3 cracks me up. The Captains vs. The Banana Slugs.
Captains take the win in the 97th minute with what I have to imagine was a garbage goal. The production is pretty ok, really good PbP but the camera angle and... Most importantly the camera tracking is subpar. Missed both CNU goals because the camera didn't pan over.
/first world probs.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2021, 01:04:34 PM
Headed to OT down in Fredericksburg in the C2C semis: Chris. Newport 1:1 UCSB
Second semi is UW-White(something) against hosts Mary Washington.
I know it's been brought up recently, but I hadn't really paid attention. Coast 2 Coast is a very "interesting" situation. And looking at the history and iterations of the league and teams involved, what a long strange trip it's been.
D3 cracks me up. The Captains vs. The Banana Slugs.
Captains take the win in the 97th minute with what I have to imagine was a garbage goal. The production is pretty ok, really good PbP but the camera angle and... Most importantly the camera tracking is subpar. Missed both CNU goals because the camera didn't pan over.
/first world probs.
UW-Whitewater Warhawks vs Mary Washington Eagles, BTW. You just asked why UW-Whitewater is ranked in Region VI in men's soccer, remember? ;D
Winner gets the CNU Captains tomorrow.
I am watching the second semifinal. Warhawks still up 1-0 over the Eagles in the 36th minute. UW-Whitewater scored the goal in the 4th minute-- Goal was scored by Jalen Holley, assist by Steven Wright.
2:43 PM Eastern update-- Mary Washington has scored the equalizer in the 41st minute to tie the match at 1 goal a piece. The equalizer was scored by 5th year senior Jeremy Hokenson, assist by Kevin Sprince.
2 yellow cards have just been awarded in the 43rd minute-- one to each team.
WW goal came off of a simple header on the near post on a corner.
MW goal also came off a corner, as the goalie parried to the back of the 6 yard box, MW player drilled a shot into the mixer and it was deflected far post.
This has been a scrappy game, but with a decent amount of quality on both sides.
The Wisky keeper has a pretty bad habit of dropping/knocking the ball to the turf on almost any shot with moderate pace. It's going to cost him.
We're deep into OT1... MaryWash clunked one off the crossbar, thought it was game over.
I know it's the nature of the beast, but these two teams have completely stopped playing soccer. Literally just lumping the ball upfield and praying. (6 mins left in OT2)
And, BALLGAME... Mary Washington to play CNU in Sat's C2C final. Nice lofted pass over the UWW backline and then slung home off a half-volley from about 8 yards out.
(Seemed like the just result.)
Golden goal scored by Mary Washington's first year player Carter Berg in the 107th minute.
Final: Mary Washington 2, UW-Whitewater 1 after extra time.
Mary Washington will play Christopher Newport tomorrow for the Coast to Coast Conference Men's title and AQ.
Pool C selection musings...
I think there may be a little more movement in RRs from Week 3 to Week 4 than usual.
Region 2 is fascinating. WPI was #1 but lost to #4 Coast Guard who then faltered in PKs vs MIT. Coast Guard owns a 2-0 H2H advantage over WPI. Ranked records are essentially even with WPI at 3-4-2 and CG at 3-4-1. WPI has by far the highest SoS around .625 but CG is respectable around .585. The loser of MIT/Babson will have 4 ranked wins, with MIT having marginally the best record and Babson the second highest SoS estimated around .595. Assuming at least one of the above is not selected, the ordering by the regional cmte is going to be brutal.
In Region 8 Hope is at #6 while KZoo snuck into the #8 slot. Hope, if indeed they are still on the bubble, will be cheering hard for KZoo against Trine because I would expect KZoo to jump Hope in the final ranking. KZoo won't get the SoS bump due to Calvin losing, but Hope won't have a substantial SoS edge and records for Hope and KZoo if KZoo doesn't beat Trine will be identical or nearly so. And KZoo owns a 2-0-1 H2H record. Both will cheer for North Central to win the CCIW AQ. I'm pretty confident that North Park and Calvin, both with 4 ranked wins, will be selected, but Calvin also should cheer for North Central.
I think barring at least several more upsets at the AQ level that Wesleyan gets in. When compared to other regions, Wes shakes out pretty well at 10-3-3, .570+ on SoS, and most importantly, 4 ranked wins (4-3-2). The only issue would be if an unspoken cap comes in to play with conferences getting more than 3 at large bids, but 4 is not unheard of for NESCAC and UAA historically.
The bigger question in terms of conferences is whether the NEWMAC and Centennial get more than usual as those are the two with 4-5 tightly clustered teams.
In any event, Pool C hopefuls will be relieved if Messiah, Trinity, Cortland, Kenyon, Rowan, North Central, and for good measure, CNU or MW, KZoo, Stevens, Dubuque, CMS, MHB, and Lynchburg take care of business.
When in doubt, and assuming SoS and overall records are reasonable (or not disqualifying), in this year's field look for the teams with 4 or more ranked wins.
My best guess now among teams already in the Pool C cauldron? The no brainer locks...W&L, OWU, Montclair, and Amherst. Locks or near-locks for at least 3 UAAs beyond the AQ with Rochester the 5th team sweating it out. The Otterbein/JCU loser is a lock. At least two more teams who don't get the NESCAC AQ are locks, although Midd might be a little nervous given their recent history of being left out (if Colby wins). That puts us up to 10. From there, I think we're getting at least two NEWMAC teams in Pool C, and I really don't think three are out of the question, but let's say two for now. Same with the Centennial which I think gets at least two Pool Cs...maybe three, but again, let's say two for now. So that puts me at 14.
With seven spot left, I'm looking at Vassar, Oneonta, the previously mentioned Rochester, North Park, Calvin, and maybe GAC and Colorado College. And I realize some of these latter seven could be picked before some others in the paragraph above, so they aren't necessarily the last seven.
Who else could be in serious contention, especially given that the chances of favored teams all winning their AQs from here are low? Rutgers-Newark, Hope, maybe Stevens if loses, maybe Denison if loses, maybe a 4th NEWMAC and/or Centennial, Lynchburg if loses, CNU/MW loser (I think CNU is in if loses C2C final and MW just moved to 9-5-2 with three ranked wins and an SoS around .595), KZoo if KZoo loses, CMS or MHB if one loses, and I doubt Carleton or Dubuque but we usually get at least one shocker.
Well, Hopkins is now down 2-0 in the first to Gettysburg.
And just to put a finer point on this, there's VERY little evidence this Hopkins (or really any from the last 5 years, at least) that this team is capable of a comeback. I'm not even gonna keep going, because enough of you have heard this music before.
Edit - Well, I'll be happy to eat my words. 2-1 now, and Hopkins is really hammering down. G'burg also saved a PK right after the first Hopkins goal.
Ed2 - Nevermind. 3-1, 17 mins left
Hopkins lost to Gettysburg 4-1.
I was gonna say nothing's worse, but, again, 1st world problems and not true...that said it's hard to earn hosting privileges and then two days later two other teams are playing for something you were expected to claim on your field. Very deflating...and then the final is stuck at a venue where there are 17-18 parents in each bleacher, with four ball boys, @deiscanton making sure the live stats are operational, and a very disinterested SID monitoring the event.
And the hits keep coming!! Col. Coll. goes up 1=0 on Trinity.
It's now 2-0 Col. Coll. just... OK.
Hey, oldheads, is this the zaniest year ever in Conf. Tournaments? This seems like.. a lot.
Quote from: Hopkins Walk-On on November 05, 2021, 06:19:40 PM
Hopkins lost to Gettysburg 4-1.
Really not surprised by this result. I always found JHU ... underwhelming. Sorry @Hopkins Walk On ...
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
And the hits keep coming!! Col. Coll. goes up 1=0 on Trinity.
It's now 2-0 Col. Coll. just... OK.
Hey, oldheads, is this the zaniest year ever in Conf. Tournaments? This seems like.. a lot.
Final: Trinity 6-2 Colorado. Michael Meese scored four goals including a brace in the final 90 seconds of the first half.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2021, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
And the hits keep coming!! Col. Coll. goes up 1=0 on Trinity.
It's now 2-0 Col. Coll. just... OK.
Hey, oldheads, is this the zaniest year ever in Conf. Tournaments? This seems like.. a lot.
Final: Trinity 6-2 Colorado. Michael Meese scored four goals including a brace in the final 90 seconds of the first half.
Very impressive. Six straight unanswered after down 2-0. How should this be assessed? How much is Trinity's quality and how much is this is what CC always seems to do against Trinity....in a word, lose?
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 05, 2021, 08:17:40 PM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2021, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 05, 2021, 06:36:38 PM
And the hits keep coming!! Col. Coll. goes up 1=0 on Trinity.
It's now 2-0 Col. Coll. just... OK.
Hey, oldheads, is this the zaniest year ever in Conf. Tournaments? This seems like.. a lot.
Final: Trinity 6-2 Colorado. Michael Meese scored four goals including a brace in the final 90 seconds of the first half.
Very impressive. Six straight unanswered after down 2-0. How should this be assessed? How much is Trinity's quality and how much is this is what CC always seems to do against Trinity....in a word, lose?
Wasn't able to watch but a probably little of both (and Meese has been a huge difference maker all year). Neither team got a lot of shots on goal - TU 7, CC 4 - so a grand total of three saves all night. Last goal for Trinity came off a PK which they let their keeper take, kind of a nice touch for the senior.
Watching this F&M vs WAC game and I am not really impressed with this quality. These guys look spent and sloppy on the ball. Starting to think the Centennial is just down this season. Hoping the Shoremen pull this off just so there's two new teams competing for the conference championship and AQ.
I've never watched Washington College before. Look pretty good to me...but beyond that the broadcast from quality of the video, to the replays, to the announcers is top-notch. Don't know if that's a Wash Coll production or a Centennial League thing, but well done.
Now OT.
That's fantastic.
1-0 OT Wash Coll Final
Sounds like the whole town is involved...pep rally in town square before the game...coaches and team there...."they'll be talking about that goal at all the pubs in Chestertown tonight." Great stuff. First ever Centennial final for Wash College.
What a way to end the game, hard to tell if the ball had perfect pace or if it was terrible keeping but regardless great build up and the game winner for the Shoremen. Cannot wait for a Gettysburg vs WAC Centennial final, Go Bullets!
And 10 minutes after the game the video coverage of the on-field celebrating continues...with no commentary...perfect.
Mary Hardin-Baylor bounced tonight by Hardin-Simmons 2-0.
MHB is/was #2 in the West but has no ranked wins and mild glow of losing 1-0 to Messiah and F&M the first week of the season has faded. Not sure how MHB could get a bid but if there is an intent to pick at least one team from the West who is it gonna be??? Colorado Coll at #3 has a more typical resume but below that of a bunch of teams already on the bubble, and hard to get excited about a team that had a 2-0 lead and lost 6-2.
My guess? Redlands beats C-M-S in their conference final, and then C-M-S gets the single West at-large.
And the formerly 0-6 Stormy Petrels now 8-6-1 and in the SAA final after going unbeaten in conference play. Will now face Centre for a NCAA bid as predicted when Oglethorpe was 1-6.
Almost forgot...a beautiful strike deep into OT2 top right that Birmingham-Southern GK could not keep out.
No need to apologize @Simple Coach. Like @Hopkins92, I was not sold on this Hopkins team nor am I sold on the "system" JHU plays. It is very mechanical. Unless you have some forwards who can really take it to goal or defenders who are wiling to make penetrating passes instead of just playing with the ball in the back, it's a lot of possession with not much consequence. I was a little disappointed with how badly this year's team seemed to fold down the stretch. The last several games have been pretty ugly after the first part of the season seemed somewhat promising. I would be amazed if they get a tourney berth.
Trinity(TX) will face St. Thomas(TX)a 1-0 victor over Southwestern, for the SCAC championship Sunday (neutral field). The Celts put the sole blemish on Trinity earlier this year in a 1-1 tie.
Edit: St. Thomas is still in their transition to D3 so tonight's results mean Trinity has clinched the SCAC's Pool A bid.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2021, 11:32:28 PM
Trinity(TX) will face St. Thomas(TX)a 1-0 victor over Southwestern, for the SCAC championship Sunday (neutral field). The Celts put the sole blemish on Trinity earlier this year in a 1-1 tie.
Edit: St. Thomas is still in their transition to D3 so tonight's results mean Trinity has clinched the SCAC's Pool A bid.
Good to see more and more teams moving to D3..Was this an NAIA? or
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 05, 2021, 09:10:01 PM
That's fantastic.
1-0 OT Wash Coll Final
Sounds like the whole town is involved...pep rally in town square before the game...coaches and team there...."they'll be talking about that goal at all the pubs in Chestertown tonight." Great stuff. First ever Centennial final for Wash College.
Fantastic story.... possibly could help them find a local "godfather"
Quote from: Hopkins Walk-On on November 05, 2021, 10:52:49 PM
No need to apologize @Simple Coach. Like @Hopkins92, I was not sold on this Hopkins team nor am I sold on the "system" JHU plays. It is very mechanical. Unless you have some forwards who can really take it to goal or defenders who are wiling to make penetrating passes instead of just playing with the ball in the back, it's a lot of possession with not much consequence. I was a little disappointed with how badly this year's team seemed to fold down the stretch. The last several games have been pretty ugly after the first part of the season seemed somewhat promising. I would be amazed if they get a tourney berth.
I caught the 2nd Half for the first 20 minutes until Hopkins let in the 3rd Goal. I thought JHU came out of Halftime on fire. Crisp clean passing with purpose and were rewarded with a Goal and a PK. I thought the striker #7? was very active and should have demanded to take the PK. I think they had a Frosh take it but whomever it was the opposing GK got in his head with intimidation tactics. It is up to the referee to clean that stuff up and not allow the shenanigans to go on but he was busy(phone call). Weak PK that was easily read and saved by the GK. Worse it looked to deflate Hopkins after such a fantastic opening to the Half. Obviously I am not a JHU follower and I know the complaints I read on here about the absolute refusal to mix it up a bit or possessing without progressing. Those are legitimate complaints but still they are at least trying to play the right way. That opening 20 minutes was entertaining to watch with JHU getting about 4 solid chances on net from it all. One strong recruiting class with a combination of tweaking the system would get this team right back where they should be. I mean hey it could be much much worse.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2021, 06:18:29 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2021, 11:32:28 PM
Trinity(TX) will face St. Thomas(TX)a 1-0 victor over Southwestern, for the SCAC championship Sunday (neutral field). The Celts put the sole blemish on Trinity earlier this year in a 1-1 tie.
Edit: St. Thomas is still in their transition to D3 so tonight's results mean Trinity has clinched the SCAC's Pool A bid.
Good to see more and more teams moving to D3..Was this an NAIA? or
They were members of the NAIA-I Red River Athletic Conference; this is the third and possibly last year of their transition. In addition to the tie earlier this season they defeated Trinity 2-1 in the semis of last spring's SCAC tournament, but fell to sixth seed Centenary in the final.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 06, 2021, 07:30:04 AM
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 06, 2021, 06:18:29 AM
Quote from: Ron Boerger on November 05, 2021, 11:32:28 PM
Trinity(TX) will face St. Thomas(TX)a 1-0 victor over Southwestern, for the SCAC championship Sunday (neutral field). The Celts put the sole blemish on Trinity earlier this year in a 1-1 tie.
Edit: St. Thomas is still in their transition to D3 so tonight's results mean Trinity has clinched the SCAC's Pool A bid.
Good to see more and more teams moving to D3..Was this an NAIA? or
They were members of the NAIA-I Red River Athletic Conference; this is the third and possibly last year of their transition. In addition to the tie earlier this season they defeated Trinity 2-1 in the semis of last spring's SCAC tournament, but fell to sixth seed Centenary in the final.
So what was the reasoning for the switch? If anyone knows..is it an NAIA thing or $$?.Is this Red River Athletic Conf have other teams looking to move?
Skyline Conference Championship Game
Mount St. Vincent leading over Manhattanville, 1-0, early on a goal from Carlos Romero in the 3rd minute. The match is now in the 7th minute.
Mount St. Vincent is looking for their first ever Skyline Conference title and AQ in their first ever appearance in the championship game.
The Dolphins tied Manhattanville 1-1 earlier this season.
Halftime of the Skyline Conference men's championship game
Mount St. Vincent still up 1-0 over Manhattanville after 45 minutes.
The big story is that both Mount St. Vincent and Manhattanville are playing 10 on 10 after Mount St. Vincent's Dennis Andino and Manhattanville's Sebastian Testa both got red cards in the 35th minute. One player will be suspended for the first round of the NCAA DIII tournament, while the other will be suspended for the first game next season.
Update-- Just looked at the play that drew the red cards. According to the Manhattanville commentator, both players that got the red cards threw punches at each other. That is violent conduct, which carries at least multiple game suspensions of at least 2 games for each player.
1:17 PM Eastern update-- Mount St. Vincent now up 2-0 over Manhattanville on a goal from Ian Lamas in the 51st minute.
Crazy season for the Centennial. Suddenly, Washington looks like a real threat to win what I think would be their first conference title. Looking at the home fans vs. F&M, I'm pulling for them. It's a good story for a team that's slowly transformed themselves from an opponent's guaranteed win to a legitimate program. G-burg played better and better as the season went on, and got very fortunate against Swat, IMO. There will be 2 teams very much on the tournament bubble assuming F&M and the conference champ are going. The runner-up will have a very strong case which leaves Hop and Swat. Hop has the slight statistical edge: head-to-head, and SOS. Swat played most of their tough conference matches away from home, and looked stronger at the end of the season, playing with more purpose. I would actually give the nod to Swat if I were awarding the berths. I'm still waiting for the call from the NCAA to ask my advice, maybe they've misplaced my number ;D.
Congratulations to the Mount St. Vincent Dolphins.
2021 Skyline Conference Champions-- first time in program history that the Dolphins men's soccer team has won a title.
First AQ to the NCAA DIII Men's Soccer tournament for Mount St. Vincent.
Program record for wins this season-- and the Dolphins got their first ever win in program history this season over NYU and their first win in 25 years over Manhattanville-- NYU just a few weeks ago, and Manhattanville today in the first ever title game for Mount St. Vincent.
Before this season, the Dolphins last defeated Manhattanville back in 1996.
Minuses-- The punching incident in the 35th minute.
I do have mixed feelings about Mount St. Vincent fans storming the soccer pitch-- especially given the comments earlier this week about how the Dolphins supporters reacted after the victory over Yeshiva in the conference semifinals.
It does not take away the accomplishment that Mount St. Vincent did this season, and this team is capable of pulling off an upset in the DIII Soccer Tournament.
St. Joseph's (Maine) takes down Norwich in the second overtime 1-0 to get the GNAC AQ this year. I didn't catch the play that led up to the goal as I was trying to catch the score on Conn vs. Colby. I tuned in late because I had other things going on, but in the brief time I watched, Norwich has St. Joe's pinned in their own end for the 2 overtime periods. I'm guessing that based on the overall shots (24-7 in favor of Norwich), that's probably the way it played our the majority of the game.
Mr. Right posted earlier this week that he thought Norwich would end up with the GNAC AQ and I didn't reply because honestly I thought Norwich had too much offense for St. Joe's to overcome. I'm happy I was wrong there. I imagine St. Joe's will get a NESCAC team in the first round and that could be the end of things, but I commend Coach Pike and his boys on getting to the NCAA tournament.
For next week all the polls should put Tufts and Trinity #1 and #2 in any order and then the next spot should be like #11. No one else deserves a top 10 ranking.
And I wrote that before seeing that St Olaf lost.
Now the Pool C deal is going to be quite drama-infested.
Trinity is like this practically every season. And then they get to the tourney and can't get the job done. Just the 1 title in '03
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 06, 2021, 06:47:28 PM
Trinity is like this practically every season. And then they get to the tourney and can't get the job done. Just the 1 title in '03
Trinity is class man.
Dont get it twisted.
I think that one title in 03 was a perfect title as well.
It looks easy to dance year after year after year playing good football year in year out.
Only 8-9 teams have climbed the mountain in the past quarter century. Of those Only 4or so drop class football year in year out for the past 2 decades.
Much respect to them Trinity boyz!
Totally agree about Trinity. 95% of programs would give their right arm to always make the NCAA tourney with frequent Elite 8 and Sweet 16 appearances. The idea that you suck if you don't get to the Final Four every year is just absurd.
Meanwhile, the upsets keep coming. Loras beats Dubuque, and with 10 min left Trine is up 1-0 on KZoo.
Which makes it even crazier to say that Tufts and Trinity should be #1 and #2 in a league of their own with no one close and omit Messiah, one of the select few teams that consistently wins NCAA titles.
And no one said that Trinity sucked lmao. What an absurd statement
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 06, 2021, 09:28:36 PM
Which makes it even crazier to say that Tufts and Trinity should be #1 and #2 in a league of their own with no one close and omit Messiah, one of the select few teams that consistently wins NCAA titles.
And no one said that Trinity sucked lmao. What an absurd statement
Sorry you misunderstood. That was just a nod to all the upsets. Wasn't endorsing any extra pedigree for Tufts and Trinity...they just avoided losing in the past 3-4 days. I was exaggerating to highlight that a bunch of teams ranked like #3 thru #15 lost.
And someone reacted to your Trinity comment before I did.
Quote from: deiscanton on November 06, 2021, 01:09:26 PM
Halftime of the Skyline Conference men's championship game
Mount St. Vincent still up 1-0 over Manhattanville after 45 minutes.
The big story is that both Mount St. Vincent and Manhattanville are playing 10 on 10 after Mount St. Vincent's Dennis Andino and Manhattanville's Sebastian Testa both got red cards in the 35th minute. One player will be suspended for the first round of the NCAA DIII tournament, while the other will be suspended for the first game next season.
Update-- Just looked at the play that drew the red cards. According to the Manhattanville commentator, both players that got the red cards threw punches at each other. That is violent conduct, which carries at least multiple game suspensions of at least 2 games for each player.
1:17 PM Eastern update-- Mount St. Vincent now up 2-0 over Manhattanville on a goal from Ian Lamas in the 51st minute.
lol only in the Skyline Deiscanton only in the Skyline....
Quote from: OldNed on November 06, 2021, 03:39:43 PM
St. Joseph's (Maine) takes down Norwich in the second overtime 1-0 to get the GNAC AQ this year. I didn't catch the play that led up to the goal as I was trying to catch the score on Conn vs. Colby. I tuned in late because I had other things going on, but in the brief time I watched, Norwich has St. Joe's pinned in their own end for the 2 overtime periods. I'm guessing that based on the overall shots (24-7 in favor of Norwich), that's probably the way it played our the majority of the game.
Mr. Right posted earlier this week that he thought Norwich would end up with the GNAC AQ and I didn't reply because honestly I thought Norwich had too much offense for St. Joe's to overcome. I'm happy I was wrong there. I imagine St. Joe's will get a NESCAC team in the first round and that could be the end of things, but I commend Coach Pike and his boys on getting to the NCAA tournament.
I saw the goal...IN THIS LEAGUE you can re-watch the games.....It is like what does Norwich have to do to get by this St.Joe's...They absolutely had St.Joe's pinned and the goal was caused by a tired Norwich defender not properly tracking the St.Joe's player that made the run to get into position in the box to score. The defender was caught and the striker made him pay. That being said the GK did not make an effort or was very slow to react to the shot. Tough loss for Norwich as I was honestly pulling for them to get into the NCAA's. I thought they might surprise an unsuspecting team in the NCAA 1st Round but hey St.Joe's is organized and like Colby can absorb pressure.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2021, 07:12:51 AM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 06, 2021, 01:09:26 PM
Halftime of the Skyline Conference men's championship game
Mount St. Vincent still up 1-0 over Manhattanville after 45 minutes.
The big story is that both Mount St. Vincent and Manhattanville are playing 10 on 10 after Mount St. Vincent's Dennis Andino and Manhattanville's Sebastian Testa both got red cards in the 35th minute. One player will be suspended for the first round of the NCAA DIII tournament, while the other will be suspended for the first game next season.
Update-- Just looked at the play that drew the red cards. According to the Manhattanville commentator, both players that got the red cards threw punches at each other. That is violent conduct, which carries at least multiple game suspensions of at least 2 games for each player.
1:17 PM Eastern update-- Mount St. Vincent now up 2-0 over Manhattanville on a goal from Ian Lamas in the 51st minute.
lol only in the Skyline Deiscanton only in the Skyline....
Under the NCAA 2020-2021 Soccer Rules book, throwing punches at a player is classified as fighting, and getting a red card for fighting carries with it a 2 game suspension for the first offense. Dennis Andino of Mount St. Vincent will have to sit out the first round of the NCAAs as well as the second round if Mount St. Vincent pulls off a "giant killing" upset in Round 1. Otherwise, it carries over to next season and the second game of the suspension gets served as the first regularly scheduled game of next season. As for Manhattanville's Sebastian Testa, he will have to sit out the first 2 regular season games next season.
Gotcha....Did the camera stay on it or turn away...It gets me ready for Men's Hockey although you do nearly see the fighting like I used to as a little kid in the 80's / 90's.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2021, 07:32:59 AM
Gotcha....Did the camera stay on it or turn away...It gets me ready for Men's Hockey although you do nearly see the fighting like I used to as a little kid in the 80's / 90's.
The camera initially was turning away as the referee was signaling for a foul and a free kick just before the incident happened, but the camera immediately turned to it just before the described punches happened. The camera is not really in a close up of the players, as it is standing in a high position overseeing the players. After the description of the incident, the camera turns away, but then turns back to see the referee give out the red cards. After the red cards are given out, the commentator takes a break in the action.
Here is the link to the on-demand game feed-- the incident happens in the 35th minute, with 10:53 remaining in the first half. The physicality starts revving up in the 33rd minute, so you may want to start watching from there.
Skyline MSOC Finals Nov 6 versus Mount St Vincent (http://govaliants.com/watch/?Archive=1342&type=Archive)
Hint: On the on-demand feed, you can set it to 1 hour and 5 minutes into the video feed, which is just about a minute before the incident happened.
Props to you deiscanton for even being able to watch that game. The camera guy was up down left right in hard pulls and pushes. I would have vomited by the 10th minute. I am not surprised by anything anymore but that was a full on slug. We Americans do enjoy are violence just cannot look away. Looks like there was a vicious foul on the CB for Mount Saint Vincent before the play which I am guessing the other Red was for. That is a tough game to ref because it had been pretty calm the first 30 minutes and then like a flash the whole thing turns on it head. Those city refs earn their money compared to these country bumpkins that have it pretty easy from what I can tell.
Quote from: Mr.Right on November 07, 2021, 09:16:19 AM
Props to you deiscanton for even being able to watch that game. The camera guy was up down left right in hard pulls and pushes. I would have vomited by the 10th minute. I am not surprised by anything anymore but that was a full on slug. We Americans do enjoy are violence just cannot look away. Looks like there was a vicious foul on the CB for Mount Saint Vincent before the play which I am guessing the other Red was for. That is a tough game to ref because it had been pretty calm the first 30 minutes and then like a flash the whole thing turns on it head. Those city refs earn their money compared to these country bumpkins that have it pretty easy from what I can tell.
After watching Mount St. Vincent beat NYU via video stream back in October, I wanted, as a neutral, to see the Dolphins make the NCAA tournament. What that in mind, I probably would have watched the Skyline title game on live stats exclusively if I had to. However, this is an instance of people warning me to be careful about what I wish for.....
Washington College is your 2021 Centennial Conference Champion after defeating Gettysburg 2-0. Will be interesting to see what the committee makes of the Bullets who finish the season 13-5-2 and with some very good ranked wins. Of note, Gettysburg has only 1 senior so I would think they'd be a strong contender for a magical season next year.
And surprise, surprise, Tufts goes into the tournament as the favorite...beatable but not sure who's gonna beat them. Probably needs to be team that doesn't give a you know what...like NYU..or maybe Amherst...or maybe Babson. One would think a NJAC would fit the bill but they have failed miserably against Tufts in recent years.
PN's Pool Cs in roughly the order they come off the board....
W&L, Amherst, Chicago, OWU, F&M, Conn Coll, St Olaf, NYU, Otterbein, Emory, Montclair, Kenyon, Rowan, North Park, Hopkins, Calvin, Middlebury
Pick 4 -- Wesleyan, MIT, Coast Guard, WPI, Vassar, Rochester, Gettysburg, GAC, CMS, Hope, Oneonta, Dubuque, Rutgers-Newark
Not a prediction, but I would probably select Wesleyan, whoever cmte ranks higher between MIT/CG/WPI, Rochester, and GAC...and I think CMS wlll be hard to keep out....and if pressed to pick most deserving I'd probably go with Gettysburg...Could also see two NEWMACs getting in. Big question is whether cmte is willing to have five NESCACs in the tournament and five UAAs.
Looking forward to the D3soccer.com analysis.
BTW, huge congrats to Washington College! Outstanding.
And wow, after seeming to fall off the face of the earth, Centre is back in the tournament.
Also looking like the SLU contingent is going to partying tonight.
St. Thomas (TX) 1- Trinity 0
???
Quote from: paclassic89 on November 07, 2021, 04:23:18 PM
St. Thomas (TX) 1- Trinity 0
???
St. Thomas has figured out how to deal with the Trinity attack and have a strong defense. Here is the series history since they started their SCAC membership:
9/11/19 St Thomas 1-0 @Trinity
3/28/21 St Thomas 2-5 @Trinity
4/24/21 St Thomas 2-1 Trinity (@Centenary LA, SCAC Championships Semis)
9/03/21 @St Thomas 2-3 Trinity 2OT
9/22/21 St Thomas 1-1 @Trinity 2OT
11/7/21 St Thomas 1-0 Trinity (@TLU, SCAC Championship)
Today they only had 2 SOG but it only took one to win the game. Trinity outshot them by a wide margin but the Celt keeper is a sponge whenever they play, and he's only a sophomore.
St Thomas is a young team that has more juco/other division transfers than most SCAC schools (7 or 8) though I don't know if any of them see much playing time.
Paul - I'd take a heads up bet on Messiah vs. Tufts. I haven't seen a team this year that has more of a positive, all-consuming, relentless attack as Messiah. I know you have to handicap the overall SoS, but I just don't think Tufts is as good top to bottom of roster as Messiah.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 07, 2021, 08:22:41 PM
Paul - I'd take a heads up bet on Messiah vs. Tufts. I haven't seen a team this year that has more of a positive, all-consuming, relentless attack as Messiah. I know you have to handicap the overall SoS, but I just don't think Tufts is as good top to bottom of roster as Messiah.
If Messiah's best player wasn't injured (and I assume that's for the season), I'd probably agree with you. Numerous posters over the past 6-7 years have failed to be truly impressed by Tufts, at least to a high degree. I get it because I used to be one of them. They just win. And Messiah hasn't been blowing the competition away. A lot of close wins against less than Tufts-level teams and a very recent loss to PS-H. Tufts also won't be flustered or bothered by Messiah having a lot of possession.
More random thoughts...
The now taller Travis van Brewer won't win it, but I think he may be the NESCAC POY and should be a 1st team All-American. You can't take the ball off him in the midfield, makes smart plays and penetrating runs and passes, and he's lethal on corners and free kicks.
And despite the deceptive scoreline, I was impressed with Conn today. Haven't really watched them closely but they have 5-6 real talented offensive players. I didn't see the first 20 minutes but should have been 1-1 at the half. Conn earned a clear cut PK that they didn't get. The shouts for PKs later by both sides didn't have anything close to that first one. Conn is a team I wouldn't want to face again if I'm Tufts. And I resisted immediately anointing Tufts' frosh GK, Lauta, but he really is excellent and has made some phenomenal saves.
The Washington College GK I think in the 2nd half made a fantastic save. If anybody sees the clip please post it.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2021, 03:12:46 PM
PN's Pool Cs in roughly the order they come off the board....
W&L, Amherst, Chicago, OWU, F&M, Conn Coll, St Olaf, NYU, Otterbein, Emory, Montclair, Kenyon, Rowan, North Park, Hopkins, Calvin, Middlebury
Pick 4 -- Wesleyan, MIT, Coast Guard, WPI, Vassar, Rochester, Gettysburg, GAC, CMS, Hope, Oneonta, Dubuque, Rutgers-Newark
Not a prediction, but I would probably select Wesleyan, whoever cmte ranks higher between MIT/CG/WPI, Rochester, and GAC...and I think CMS wlll be hard to keep out....and if pressed to pick most deserving I'd probably go with Gettysburg...Could also see two NEWMACs getting in. Big question is whether cmte is willing to have five NESCACs in the tournament and five UAAs.
Looking forward to the D3soccer.com analysis.
So pretty much nailed this compared to the D3soccer projections. Only major difference is the flip between Wesleyan and Midd, which I considered but did not have the heart to leave Midd out yet again. I think both get in.
Other differences were leaving Oneonta and CMS totally out of the picture and I see on women's side basically same result for Southwestern there as CMS here...and putting Coast Guard and Rochester off the bubble. I'll be mildly surprised to not see UR picked and curious if you guys considered Coast Guard being 2-0-0 with WPI and whether also impacted by MIT being 1-0-1 with Coast Guard.
Addendum: I now see that D3soccer has no teams in consideration at all (even off the bubble) that don't have at least 3 ranked wins. Hence, no Oneonta or CMS...and no Colorado Coll who I also left completely off. We shall see as they say!
Paul I agree with pretty much all your points. First off, I thought Conn was really impressive. I think the relatively new coaching staff there has done an excellent job of elevating the program from a mid tier NESCAC program into I would say clearly in the top 3 at the moment. They moved the ball really well yesterday and certainly were better in possession than Tufts was. And you are right that was 100% a penalty in the first half.
I think TVB has certainly earned his spot in the all time Tufts XI and has probably had more of an impact over all 4 years than just about anyone I can remember. That being said I think Aroh will probably get the nod for the awards later this week.
Finally, Lauta is legit. I think he is definitely the best goalie Tufts has had at least since Greenwood and is on track to surpass him as well. If he stays healthy he should own every goalkeeping record at Tufts except for maybe save percentage in a season which Bruce Johnson holds with 0 goals allowed in 10 games in 2017.
Going to be an interesting tournament. I think key injuries to teams like Messiah and Tufts have brought them closer to the pack and the result is a wide open tournament.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2021, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2021, 03:12:46 PM
PN's Pool Cs in roughly the order they come off the board....
W&L, Amherst, Chicago, OWU, F&M, Conn Coll, St Olaf, NYU, Otterbein, Emory, Montclair, Kenyon, Rowan, North Park, Hopkins, Calvin, Middlebury
Pick 4 -- Wesleyan, MIT, Coast Guard, WPI, Vassar, Rochester, Gettysburg, GAC, CMS, Hope, Oneonta, Dubuque, Rutgers-Newark
Not a prediction, but I would probably select Wesleyan, whoever cmte ranks higher between MIT/CG/WPI, Rochester, and GAC...and I think CMS wlll be hard to keep out....and if pressed to pick most deserving I'd probably go with Gettysburg...Could also see two NEWMACs getting in. Big question is whether cmte is willing to have five NESCACs in the tournament and five UAAs.
Looking forward to the D3soccer.com analysis.
So pretty much nailed this compared to the D3soccer projections. Only major difference is the flip between Wesleyan and Midd, which I considered but did not have the heart to leave Midd out yet again. I think both get in.
Other differences were leaving Oneonta and CMS totally out of the picture and I see on women's side basically same result for Southwestern there as CMS here...and putting Coast Guard and Rochester off the bubble. I'll be mildly surprised to not see UR picked and curious if you guys considered Coast Guard being 2-0-0 with WPI and whether also impacted by MIT being 1-0-1 with Coast Guard.
Addendum: I now see that D3soccer has no teams in consideration at all (even off the bubble) that don't have at least 3 ranked wins. Hence, no Oneonta or CMS...and no Colorado Coll who I also left completely off. We shall see as they say!
Going to be very hard for the committee. If it comes down to Wesleyan vs Midd, I would think that Wes failing to beat Midd in either of their two attempts (3-1 loss and 0-0 draw, failure to advance on penalties) would be decisive. Can't see Midd being penalized for having to play an extra game vs Tufts which they lost 1-0 but carried much of the play and generated some excellent looks.
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 08, 2021, 08:52:30 AM
Going to be very hard for the committee. If it comes down to Wesleyan vs Midd, I would think that Wes failing to beat Midd in either of their two attempts (3-1 loss and 0-0 draw, failure to advance on penalties) would be decisive. Can't see Midd being penalized for having to play an extra game vs Tufts which they lost 1-0 but carried much of the play and generated some excellent looks.
Agreed...seems counter-intuitive. They had exact same winning pct going into their game, and because of advancing Midd gets small drop in winning pct and an extra ranked loss for their troubles. The H2H is also a strong argument. That said, Wes would have the 4 ranked wins regardless. D3soccer certainly valued ranked wins in their analysis. Everybody has 5 or more until you get to W&L at 4-0-2, and then those with 4 got the nod over teams with 3. That said, one could also note that Midd scored a single goal in their last 4 games...including 0-0 with Trinity. Midd has way too much talent to get 1 goal in 4 games.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 07, 2021, 03:12:46 PM
And surprise, surprise, Tufts goes into the tournament as the favorite...beatable but not sure who's gonna beat them. Probably needs to be team that doesn't give a you know what...like NYU..or maybe Amherst...or maybe Babson. One would think a NJAC would fit the bill but they have failed miserably against Tufts in recent years.
PN's Pool Cs in roughly the order they come off the board....
W&L, Amherst, Chicago, OWU, F&M, Conn Coll, St Olaf, NYU, Otterbein, Emory, Montclair, Kenyon, Rowan, North Park, Hopkins, Calvin, Middlebury
Pick 4 -- Wesleyan, MIT, Coast Guard, WPI, Vassar, Rochester, Gettysburg, GAC, CMS, Hope, Oneonta, Dubuque, Rutgers-Newark
Not a prediction, but I would probably select Wesleyan, whoever cmte ranks higher between MIT/CG/WPI, Rochester, and GAC...and I think CMS wlll be hard to keep out....and if pressed to pick most deserving I'd probably go with Gettysburg...Could also see two NEWMACs getting in. Big question is whether cmte is willing to have five NESCACs in the tournament and five UAAs.
Looking forward to the D3soccer.com analysis.
BTW, huge congrats to Washington College! Outstanding.
Like it Paul! Here is my best guess at the 21 Pool Cs for this afternoon...
1. Amherst
2. Chicago
3. W&L
4. OWU
5. Emory
6. NYU
7. F&M
8. St. Olaf
9. Montclair St
10. Kenyon
11. Otterbein
12. Conn College
13. Hopkins
14. Rowan
15. North Park
16. Wesleyan
17. Vassar
18. Gustavus Adolphus
19. Calvin
20. MIT
21. Gettysburg
------------------------------
Swat
Coast Guard
UR
WPI
Newark
MW
Hope
Oneonta
CMS
MAF, I like your list a lot. Vassar is an interesting one. But did you forget Midd???
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2021, 09:25:00 AM
MAF, I like your list a lot. Vassar is an interesting one. But did you forget Midd???
MAF probably saw Midd get the NESCAC women's AQ and accidentally thought it was the men's..... LOL
I know this won't be the case but I think Hopkins and Calvin both should be closer to missing out than getting in.
New prediction...the 1st and 2nd rounds are gonna be wild with some brutal match-ups and surprising early exits. And at least 3-4 (probably more) of the higher profile AQs won't get to the 2nd weekend.
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2021, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 08, 2021, 08:52:30 AM
Going to be very hard for the committee. If it comes down to Wesleyan vs Midd, I would think that Wes failing to beat Midd in either of their two attempts (3-1 loss and 0-0 draw, failure to advance on penalties) would be decisive. Can't see Midd being penalized for having to play an extra game vs Tufts which they lost 1-0 but carried much of the play and generated some excellent looks.
Agreed...seems counter-intuitive. They had exact same winning pct going into their game, and because of advancing Midd gets small drop in winning pct and an extra ranked loss for their troubles. The H2H is also a strong argument. That said, Wes would have the 4 ranked wins regardless. D3soccer certainly valued ranked wins in their analysis. Everybody has 5 or more until you get to W&L at 4-0-2, and then those with 4 got the nod over teams with 3. That said, one could also note that Midd scored a single goal in their last 4 games...including 0-0 with Trinity. Midd has way too much talent to get 1 goal in 4 games.
What matters is the regional ranking. If the regional committee ranks Wesleyan ahead of Midd in its final ranking today, the national committee cannot take Midd over Wesleyan; it can only take Wesleyan or both.
Quote from: Bucket on November 08, 2021, 10:28:58 AM
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2021, 09:14:18 AM
Quote from: College Soccer Observer on November 08, 2021, 08:52:30 AM
Going to be very hard for the committee. If it comes down to Wesleyan vs Midd, I would think that Wes failing to beat Midd in either of their two attempts (3-1 loss and 0-0 draw, failure to advance on penalties) would be decisive. Can't see Midd being penalized for having to play an extra game vs Tufts which they lost 1-0 but carried much of the play and generated some excellent looks.
Agreed...seems counter-intuitive. They had exact same winning pct going into their game, and because of advancing Midd gets small drop in winning pct and an extra ranked loss for their troubles. The H2H is also a strong argument. That said, Wes would have the 4 ranked wins regardless. D3soccer certainly valued ranked wins in their analysis. Everybody has 5 or more until you get to W&L at 4-0-2, and then those with 4 got the nod over teams with 3. That said, one could also note that Midd scored a single goal in their last 4 games...including 0-0 with Trinity. Midd has way too much talent to get 1 goal in 4 games.
What matters is the regional ranking. If the regional committee ranks Wesleyan ahead of Midd in its final ranking today, the national committee cannot take Midd over Wesleyan; it can only take Wesleyan or both.
Correct...and exactly why who the cmte gives the edge to in the regional ranking is critical.
Jim and I at D3soccer.com don't have the time, energy and resources to do the full evaluation that the NCAA is able to do with 10 Regional Advisory Committees each focused on just their region. As such, we will inevitable miss something that may prove to be decisive in the final ranking order and the selections. Head-to-head is one thing that is easy to miss when tackling it all with just a two-person staff. We overlooked the head-to-head between Middlebury and Wesleyan, and maybe would have flipped their place in our predictions if we had it to do over again.
By the way, we have added more commentary to our predictions including a bit about Claremont and Colorado at the end. We wanted to get our predictions up last night, but didn't make it, but definetely wanted them up first thing in the morning and didn't want to hold them back until we had time to provide a bit of commentary.
Rochester does always seem to make it even when carrying a lot of blemishes, but it didn't seem as plausible this year.
Christan, thanks. Great job as always. Could you share your thought process with Coast Grd vs WPI and MIT? And were you guys intentionally considering 3 ranked wins a required bar?
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 08, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
Jim and I at D3soccer.com don't have the time, energy and resources to do the full evaluation that the NCAA is able to do with 10 Regional Advisory Committees each focused on just their region. As such, we will inevitable miss something that may prove to be decisive in the final ranking order and the selections. Head-to-head is one thing that is easy to miss when tackling it all with just a two-person staff. We overlooked the head-to-head between Middlebury and Wesleyan, and maybe would have flipped their place in our predictions if we had it to do over again.
By the way, we have added more commentary to our predictions including a bit about Claremont and Colorado at the end. We wanted to get our predictions up last night, but didn't make it, but definetely wanted them up first thing in the morning and didn't want to hold them back until we had time to provide a bit of commentary.
Rochester does always seem to make it even when carrying a lot of blemishes, but it didn't seem as plausible this year.
Christan, thanks as always to you and Jim for a Selection Day job well done.
And now back to my five-day marathon of nail-biting ...
Quote from: PaulNewman on November 08, 2021, 09:25:00 AM
MAF, I like your list a lot. Vassar is an interesting one. But did you forget Midd???
Yes think I overlooked Middlebury. Put them in somewhere and bump one of the last 5?? Flip a coin I guess ??? ;D ;)
I think Vassar is easily in but I see others think not...we shall see!
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 08, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
Jim and I at D3soccer.com don't have the time, energy and resources to do the full evaluation that the NCAA is able to do with 10 Regional Advisory Committees each focused on just their region. As such, we will inevitable miss something that may prove to be decisive in the final ranking order and the selections. Head-to-head is one thing that is easy to miss when tackling it all with just a two-person staff. We overlooked the head-to-head between Middlebury and Wesleyan, and maybe would have flipped their place in our predictions if we had it to do over again.
By the way, we have added more commentary to our predictions including a bit about Claremont and Colorado at the end. We wanted to get our predictions up last night, but didn't make it, but definetely wanted them up first thing in the morning and didn't want to hold them back until we had time to provide a bit of commentary.
Rochester does always seem to make it even when carrying a lot of blemishes, but it didn't seem as plausible this year.
I am extremely grateful for the time and energy you both put into this as a service to D3 fans throughout the country. Debates are the lifeblood of college sports, whether about college football playoffs, March Madness, or Pool C bids. Thanks for a job well done.
Selections came out at 1:30 PM Eastern on NCAA.com, and I am sure that a lot of you watched the stream live on tape as it was released.
My immediate reaction:
(1) Rochester got in after all as a Pool C-- They play Calvin in the first round at Ohio Wesleyan. That makes 4 Pool C's on the UAA men's side. I am not surprised that Gabe Margolis, who is on the national committee as Region II chair, convinced the fellow members to look deeper into Rochester's resume, and that convinced the rest of the committee to select the Yellowjackets.
(2) NYU men have to play St. Joe's Maine in the first round at Connecticut College, and NYU starting goalkeeper Luca Mancuso is suspended for this round as a result of getting his 5th yellow card of the season on Saturday vs Brandeis. Back up goalkeeper Nick Vafiadas will be in goal for NYU for the first round, and he was the goalkeeper when Mount St. Vincent beat NYU earlier this season.
This game looks to me like a game that the Monks could win, and advance to play the Camels, who should not have much trouble getting past Salem State. The MASCAC was a very weak league this season outside of Salem State-- in regular season MASCAC play, the Vikings did not concede a goal in conference play.
(3) Mount St. Vincent's Dolphins have to take down host Rowan in the first round to extend their season-- Is Rowan vulnerable to an upset? Or will this game go as expected in that the Skyline champ usually does not advance past the first round of NCAAs.
(4) Emory will play Centre in a men's soccer match in the first round-- Their women's soccer programs faced each other earlier this season.
(5) The only UAA men's soccer team hosting first and second round matches this weekend is Emory. Emory's women will be playing Wittenberg at Centre in the first round, so Emory could face Centre again on the women's side in the second round.
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 08, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
Jim and I at D3soccer.com don't have the time, energy and resources to do the full evaluation that the NCAA is able to do with 10 Regional Advisory Committees each focused on just their region. As such, we will inevitable miss something that may prove to be decisive in the final ranking order and the selections. Head-to-head is one thing that is easy to miss when tackling it all with just a two-person staff. We overlooked the head-to-head between Middlebury and Wesleyan, and maybe would have flipped their place in our predictions if we had it to do over again.
By the way, we have added more commentary to our predictions including a bit about Claremont and Colorado at the end. We wanted to get our predictions up last night, but didn't make it, but definetely wanted them up first thing in the morning and didn't want to hold them back until we had time to provide a bit of commentary.
Rochester does always seem to make it even when carrying a lot of blemishes, but it didn't seem as plausible this year.
Not bad Christian. The only big miss was Lynchburg...
LOCKS - NO DISCUSSION NEEDED (2)1. Chicago (12-5-1) - Reg. VIII | .694 Win Pct. | .648 SoS | 9-3-1 RvR
2. Amherst (12-2-2) - Reg. I | .813 Win Pct. | .635 SoS | 6-2-1 RvRLOCKS - RUBBER-STAMPING DISCUSSION (2)3. Ohio Wesleyan (14-2-2) - Reg. VII | .833 Win Pct. | .580 SoS | 5-2-2 RvR
4. Washington and Lee (14-1-2) - Reg. VI | .882 Win Pct. | .595 SoS | 4-0-2 RvRSAFE, NO WORRIES (2)5. Emory (9-3-4) - Reg. VI | .688 Win Pct. | .638 SoS | 5-2-3 RvR
6. New York University (10-5-1) - Reg. IV | .656 Win Pct. | .633 SoS | 5-3-0 RvRIN GOOD SHAPE (6)7. Franklin and Marshall (14-3-1) - Reg. V | .806 Win Pct. | .606 SoS | 4-3-1 RvR
8. St. Olaf (17-2-1) - Reg. IX | .875 Win Pct. | .564 SoS | 4-2-1 RvR
9. Montclair State (16-3-1) - Reg. IV | .825 Win Pct. | .566 SoS | 4-3-0 RvR
10. Connecticut College (14-3-0) - Reg. I | .778 Win Pct. | .600 SoS | 4-4-0 RvR
11. Kenyon (15-2-1) - Reg. VII | .861 Win Pct. | .553 SoS | 4-2-1 RvR
12. Otterbein (14-1-4) - Reg. VII | .842 Win Pct. | .570 SoS | 3-1-4 RvRNERVOUS, BUT PROBABLY OKAY (2)13. Rowan (12-3-2) - Reg. IV | .765 Win Pct. | .597 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR
14. North Park (13-5-0) - Reg. VIII | .722 Win Pct. | .584 SoS | 4-4-0 RvRRIGHT SIDE OF THE BUBBLE (3)15. Johns Hopkins (11-4-2) - Reg. V | .706 Win Pct. | .574 SoS | 4-3-0 RvR16. Wesleyan (10-3-3) - Reg. I | .719 Win Pct. | .570 SoS | 4-3-2 RvR17. Calvin (15-3-2) - Reg. VIII | .778 Win Pct. | .546 SoS | 4-2-1 RvR
SQUARELY ON THE BUBBLE (PICK 'EM 4 OF 6)18. MIT (13-4-2) - Reg. II | .737 Win Pct. | .555 SoS | 4-3-1 RvR
19. Gustavus Adolphus (14-5-0) - Reg. IX | .737 Win Pct. | .567 SoS | 3-3-0 RvR20. Middlebury (10-4-3) - Reg. I | .676 Win Pct. | .599 SoS | 3-3-2 RvR21. Vassar (11-4-2) - Reg. III | .706 Win Pct. | .574 SoS | 3-1-0 RvR
22. WPI (10-5-3) - Reg. II | .639 Win Pct. | .613 SoS | 3-4-2 RvR23. Gettysburg (13-4-2) - Reg. V | .700 Win Pct. | .591 SoS | 3-4-2 RvRWRONG SIDE OF THE BUBBLE Swarthmore (11-4-2) - Reg. V | .706 Win Pct. | .574 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR Coast Guard (12-4-2) - Reg. II | .722 Win Pct. | .569 SoS | 3-4-1 RvR
Rutgers-Newark (12-4-4) - Reg. IV | .700 Win Pct. | .555 SoS | 3-2-1 RvR
Mary Washington (9-6-2) - Reg. VI | .625 Win Pct. | .601 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR Rochester (9-3-4) - Reg. III | .688 Win Pct. | .593 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR Hope (11-4-3) - Reg. VIII | .694 Win Pct. | .561 SoS | 3-4-2 RvRWEST COAST LOVEColorado College (11-5-1) - Reg. X | .676 Win Pct. | .551 SoS | 2-3-1 RvR
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (14-2-3) - Reg. X | .861 Win Pct. | .533 SoS | 1-1-0 RvR
Quote from: deiscanton on November 08, 2021, 02:11:48 PM
(1) Rochester got in after all as a Pool C-- They play Calvin in the first round at Ohio Wesleyan. That makes 4 Pool C's on the UAA men's side. I am not surprised that Gabe Margolis, who is on the national committee as Region II chair, convinced the fellow members to look deeper into Rochester's resume, and that convinced the rest of the committee to select the Yellowjackets.
Allen, there are strict NCAA rules concerning the participation of a committee member in a discussion that involves his or her institution. That person is required to recuse him- or herself and leave the conversation, whether it's in-person or remote, during the discussion of his or her school. I'm sure that Gabe Margolis had no input into Rochester getting into the field. Whether his associates consciously or unconsciously favored the Yellowjackets because they know Gabe and think he's a swell guy is another matter, but you can't really control that if you're the NCAA. You can only hope that the committee members take their job seriously enough to be impartial and objective and stick to the criteria.
Quote from: Ejay on November 08, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 08, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
Jim and I at D3soccer.com don't have the time, energy and resources to do the full evaluation that the NCAA is able to do with 10 Regional Advisory Committees each focused on just their region. As such, we will inevitable miss something that may prove to be decisive in the final ranking order and the selections. Head-to-head is one thing that is easy to miss when tackling it all with just a two-person staff. We overlooked the head-to-head between Middlebury and Wesleyan, and maybe would have flipped their place in our predictions if we had it to do over again.
By the way, we have added more commentary to our predictions including a bit about Claremont and Colorado at the end. We wanted to get our predictions up last night, but didn't make it, but definetely wanted them up first thing in the morning and didn't want to hold them back until we had time to provide a bit of commentary.
Rochester does always seem to make it even when carrying a lot of blemishes, but it didn't seem as plausible this year.
Not bad Christian. The only big miss was Lynchburg...
LOCKS - NO DISCUSSION NEEDED (2)
1. Chicago (12-5-1) - Reg. VIII | .694 Win Pct. | .648 SoS | 9-3-1 RvR
2. Amherst (12-2-2) - Reg. I | .813 Win Pct. | .635 SoS | 6-2-1 RvR
LOCKS - RUBBER-STAMPING DISCUSSION (2)
3. Ohio Wesleyan (14-2-2) - Reg. VII | .833 Win Pct. | .580 SoS | 5-2-2 RvR
4. Washington and Lee (14-1-2) - Reg. VI | .882 Win Pct. | .595 SoS | 4-0-2 RvR
SAFE, NO WORRIES (2)
5. Emory (9-3-4) - Reg. VI | .688 Win Pct. | .638 SoS | 5-2-3 RvR
6. New York University (10-5-1) - Reg. IV | .656 Win Pct. | .633 SoS | 5-3-0 RvR
IN GOOD SHAPE (6)
7. Franklin and Marshall (14-3-1) - Reg. V | .806 Win Pct. | .606 SoS | 4-3-1 RvR
8. St. Olaf (17-2-1) - Reg. IX | .875 Win Pct. | .564 SoS | 4-2-1 RvR
9. Montclair State (16-3-1) - Reg. IV | .825 Win Pct. | .566 SoS | 4-3-0 RvR
10. Connecticut College (14-3-0) - Reg. I | .778 Win Pct. | .600 SoS | 4-4-0 RvR
11. Kenyon (15-2-1) - Reg. VII | .861 Win Pct. | .553 SoS | 4-2-1 RvR
12. Otterbein (14-1-4) - Reg. VII | .842 Win Pct. | .570 SoS | 3-1-4 RvR
NERVOUS, BUT PROBABLY OKAY (2)
13. Rowan (12-3-2) - Reg. IV | .765 Win Pct. | .597 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR
14. North Park (13-5-0) - Reg. VIII | .722 Win Pct. | .584 SoS | 4-4-0 RvR
RIGHT SIDE OF THE BUBBLE (3)
15. Johns Hopkins (11-4-2) - Reg. V | .706 Win Pct. | .574 SoS | 4-3-0 RvR
16. Wesleyan (10-3-3) - Reg. I | .719 Win Pct. | .570 SoS | 4-3-2 RvR
17. Calvin (15-3-2) - Reg. VIII | .778 Win Pct. | .546 SoS | 4-2-1 RvR
SQUARELY ON THE BUBBLE (PICK 'EM 4 OF 6)
18. MIT (13-4-2) - Reg. II | .737 Win Pct. | .555 SoS | 4-3-1 RvR
19. Gustavus Adolphus (14-5-0) - Reg. IX | .737 Win Pct. | .567 SoS | 3-3-0 RvR
20. Middlebury (10-4-3) - Reg. I | .676 Win Pct. | .599 SoS | 3-3-2 RvR
21. Vassar (11-4-2) - Reg. III | .706 Win Pct. | .574 SoS | 3-1-0 RvR
22. WPI (10-5-3) - Reg. II | .639 Win Pct. | .613 SoS | 3-4-2 RvR
23. Gettysburg (13-4-2) - Reg. V | .700 Win Pct. | .591 SoS | 3-4-2 RvR
WRONG SIDE OF THE BUBBLE
Swarthmore (11-4-2) - Reg. V | .706 Win Pct. | .574 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR
Coast Guard (12-4-2) - Reg. II | .722 Win Pct. | .569 SoS | 3-4-1 RvR
Rutgers-Newark (12-4-4) - Reg. IV | .700 Win Pct. | .555 SoS | 3-2-1 RvR
Mary Washington (9-6-2) - Reg. VI | .625 Win Pct. | .601 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR
Rochester (9-3-4) - Reg. III | .688 Win Pct. | .593 SoS | 3-3-1 RvR
Hope (11-4-3) - Reg. VIII | .694 Win Pct. | .561 SoS | 3-4-2 RvR
WEST COAST LOVE
Colorado College (11-5-1) - Reg. X | .676 Win Pct. | .551 SoS | 2-3-1 RvR
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (14-2-3) - Reg. X | .861 Win Pct. | .533 SoS | 1-1-0 RvR
Lynchburg was an AQ...
Pretty spot on with the predictions
Quote from: Ejay on November 08, 2021, 02:20:09 PM
Quote from: Christan Shirk on November 08, 2021, 10:39:50 AM
Jim and I at D3soccer.com don't have the time, energy and resources to do the full evaluation that the NCAA is able to do with 10 Regional Advisory Committees each focused on just their region. As such, we will inevitable miss something that may prove to be decisive in the final ranking order and the selections. Head-to-head is one thing that is easy to miss when tackling it all with just a two-person staff. We overlooked the head-to-head between Middlebury and Wesleyan, and maybe would have flipped their place in our predictions if we had it to do over again.
By the way, we have added more commentary to our predictions including a bit about Claremont and Colorado at the end. We wanted to get our predictions up last night, but didn't make it, but definetely wanted them up first thing in the morning and didn't want to hold them back until we had time to provide a bit of commentary.
Rochester does always seem to make it even when carrying a lot of blemishes, but it didn't seem as plausible this year.
Not bad Christian. The only big miss was Lynchburg...
Actually Lynchburg was the AQ. We had an error in our list when it originally posted, including Lynchburg as an at-large selection instead of Johns Hopkins.
So the biggest miss was Oneonta State. If we had listed one more team on the wrong side of the bubble it may have been Oneonta. I think St. Lawrence may have snuck into the final rankings which would have given Oneonta another RvR.
I already admitted that our oversight of Middlebury's head-to-head results with Wesleyan probably had us leaning the wrong way on who would be higher in the Region I rankings.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2021, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 08, 2021, 02:11:48 PM
(1) Rochester got in after all as a Pool C-- They play Calvin in the first round at Ohio Wesleyan. That makes 4 Pool C's on the UAA men's side. I am not surprised that Gabe Margolis, who is on the national committee as Region II chair, convinced the fellow members to look deeper into Rochester's resume, and that convinced the rest of the committee to select the Yellowjackets.
Allen, there are strict NCAA rules concerning the participation of a committee member in a discussion that involves his or her institution. That person is required to recuse him- or herself and leave the conversation, whether it's in-person or remote, during the discussion of his or her school. I'm sure that Gabe Margolis had no input into Rochester getting into the field. Whether his associates consciously or unconsciously favored the Yellowjackets because they know Gabe and think he's a swell guy is another matter, but you can't really control that if you're the NCAA. You can only hope that the committee members take their job seriously enough to be impartial and objective and stick to the criteria.
I know that Gabe Margolis has to leave the room if the Brandeis men's soccer team is involved in the conversation, but I did not know that that rule extended to any other team in the UAA, too, if it is on the national table (Gabe Margolis is the Brandeis men's soccer coach, and is on the national committee by virtue of being the Region II chair.)
Margolis can only chair the RAC for Region II (and he can't even vote on the Region II RAC call, anyway, as he chairs Region II), and Rochester is in Region III.
BTW, I am sure that they stuck to the criteria when the national committee made their selections.
Some quick reactions:
* As a total homer, that selection show was BRUTAL. :D If you didn't watch, Hopkins was held off the board until the very last match-up in the 64 team field was displayed. Serves them right for finishing the season so poorly.
* Slightly less parochially, and an obvious point but one that needs to be said, I think the selection committee overvalued the Centennial this year. On the one hand, when I saw Swat in the very first pod, I felt good for the rest of the conference. On the other hand, I just don't know that Swat and Gettysburg deserve their spots. Heck, as mentioned by paclassic, pretty debatable that Hopkins deserves theirs, either.
* Want to build out on deiscanton highlighted. The NYU - St. Joe's matchup leapt off the screen as a potential barn burner in the first round. Given the chatter on the board about SLU, I really think that match-up with the Shoremen will be entertaining. Also circling the Rochester vs. Calvin game. Something to prove for both squads there.
Quote from: deiscanton on November 08, 2021, 02:33:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2021, 02:23:11 PM
Quote from: deiscanton on November 08, 2021, 02:11:48 PM
(1) Rochester got in after all as a Pool C-- They play Calvin in the first round at Ohio Wesleyan. That makes 4 Pool C's on the UAA men's side. I am not surprised that Gabe Margolis, who is on the national committee as Region II chair, convinced the fellow members to look deeper into Rochester's resume, and that convinced the rest of the committee to select the Yellowjackets.
Allen, there are strict NCAA rules concerning the participation of a committee member in a discussion that involves his or her institution. That person is required to recuse him- or herself and leave the conversation, whether it's in-person or remote, during the discussion of his or her school. I'm sure that Gabe Margolis had no input into Rochester getting into the field. Whether his associates consciously or unconsciously favored the Yellowjackets because they know Gabe and think he's a swell guy is another matter, but you can't really control that if you're the NCAA. You can only hope that the committee members take their job seriously enough to be impartial and objective and stick to the criteria.
I know that Gabe Margolis has to leave the room if the Brandeis men's soccer team is involved in the conversation, but I did not know that that rule extended to any other team in the UAA, too, if it is on the national table (Gabe Margolis is the Brandeis men's soccer coach, and is on the national committee by virtue of being the Region II chair.)
You're right, Allen. My bad. I don't know why I was thinking "Apple" when I was reading "Margolis."
I blame it on giddiness induced by the serendipity of NPU getting to host next weekend.
Time to step away from the computer and get some fresh air. ;)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
I blame it on giddiness induced by the serendipity of NPU getting to host next weekend.
That makes one of us. Not too thrilled with WashU drawing NPU as a potential second-round opponent. IMO, that should be a third-round matchup (in which case WashU would have gotten to host it, if it had happened).
Quote from: Buck O. on November 08, 2021, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
I blame it on giddiness induced by the serendipity of NPU getting to host next weekend.
That makes one of us. Not too thrilled with WashU drawing NPU as a potential second-round opponent. IMO, that should be a third-round matchup (in which case WashU would have gotten to host it, if it had happened).
Not necessarily. Wash U is not situated well geographically with regard to St. Olaf, the favorite to come out of the pod that the Oles are hosting; Northfield, MN is more than 500 miles from St. Louis, which means that the NCAA would have to spring for a flight for the Oles if Wash U were to host the sectionals.
I'm not particularly thrilled with NPU playing Wash U again, either in Chicago or St. Louis, although I speculated after the game in St. Louis back on September 11 that I could very well envision the Vikings and Bears meeting again in the postseason:
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 11, 2021, 07:08:49 PM
Final from the Gateway City:
Wash U 3
North Park 2
Disappointing loss for NPU. Wash U was simply more disciplined in the back third today than the Vikings were. Both teams kept nice shape defensively, but a couple too many mistakes in the back by the young Vikings backliners against a Bears team that is far more opportunistic than Wash U has been in recent seasons. Even so, there were plenty of chances to be had, as the Vikings did a nice job in particular at working the left touchline with Lundeen and then pinching in at the midpoint of the box, but they couldn't connect.
Could we see a rematch between NPU and Wash U in November?
Thing is, you have to play good teams at some point in the tourney. Once you clear the first round, the chance for a gimme shrinks dramatically for everybody who's left.
So, obviously a lot to talk about.
To put the field thing to bed, I got all of my top 17 picks, and among my "pick 4" category I had Oneonta, Rochester, and Gettysburg. The only team to get in outside of my "pick 4" category was Swat.
My cynical side (who knew?) says branding played a role, at least with Oneonta and Rochester, although I thought UR would get in and I thought Gettysburg was deserving. Obviously did not see Swat, and stunned to see that many Centennials and ZERO out of the NEWMAC trio. Maybe they decided picking among WPI, MIT, and Coast Guard was just too hard.
Biggest snubs to me are Wesleyan, no NEWMACs, and GAC with a nod to C-M-S.
Region V was very interesting and it seems like Centennial cachet played a factor in so many teams slipping in to the tourney.
Swat 11-4-2 .577 SOS 3-3-1 RvR and .6093 RPI
Hopkins 11-4-2 .577 SOS 4-3-1 RvR and .6093 RPI
LVC 14-5-0 .567 SOS 3-4-0 RVR and .6095 RPI
A coin flip and these RPI's were not in the top 21 of Pool C teams
WPI seems like the biggest snub if you look at RPI .6203
Maybe at some point the D3 process will enter the modern era and start using an adjusted RPI like D1
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2021, 04:18:33 PM
Quote from: Buck O. on November 08, 2021, 04:00:45 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 08, 2021, 02:56:40 PM
I blame it on giddiness induced by the serendipity of NPU getting to host next weekend.
That makes one of us. Not too thrilled with WashU drawing NPU as a potential second-round opponent. IMO, that should be a third-round matchup (in which case WashU would have gotten to host it, if it had happened).
Not necessarily. Wash U is not situated well geographically with regard to St. Olaf, the favorite to come out of the pod that the Oles are hosting; Northfield, MN is more than 500 miles from St. Louis, which means that the NCAA would have to spring for a flight for the Oles if Wash U were to host the sectionals.
I'm not particularly thrilled with NPU playing Wash U again, either in Chicago or St. Louis, although I speculated after the game in St. Louis back on September 11 that I could very well envision the Vikings and Bears meeting again in the postseason:
Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 11, 2021, 07:08:49 PM
Final from the Gateway City:
Wash U 3
North Park 2
Disappointing loss for NPU. Wash U was simply more disciplined in the back third today than the Vikings were. Both teams kept nice shape defensively, but a couple too many mistakes in the back by the young Vikings backliners against a Bears team that is far more opportunistic than Wash U has been in recent seasons. Even so, there were plenty of chances to be had, as the Vikings did a nice job in particular at working the left touchline with Lundeen and then pinching in at the midpoint of the box, but they couldn't connect.
Could we see a rematch between NPU and Wash U in November?
Thing is, you have to play good teams at some point in the tourney. Once you clear the first round, the chance for a gimme shrinks dramatically for everybody who's left.
Understood, but I think that Tufts/W&L/Amherst have dramatically easier draws.
Posting this here so as not to step on Cristan's post and comments in response...
First, I think the Final 4 match-ups we have are as good as any we could get and I'm more excited to see the games as a neutral than any recent Final 4 I can recall.
That said, best intersectional match-ups we didn't get imo...
Kenyon vs W&L
North Park vs Amherst
Messiah vs Tufts
Trinity vs Conn Coll
Middlebury vs OWU or Wash U
Calvin vs Amherst
D3 Soccer board MVP 2021.....
TIE....Mr.Right, SimpleCoach
Congrats to the National Champions Champions Connecticut College.
When you win a national championship you live forever.
They can not ever forget you.
You live forever!
I am so very proud of these guys. When you are 90 seconds from a National Championship and then blow the opportunity, then pick your self up against a former champ to win a title, you are a well deserved CHAMPION.
You are champions boys.
The current team, the alumni, the future players, the fans, no one can ever take this away from you.
You are the champions!!! Enjoy this, you will be in your 70s enjoying this moment you earned.
Congrats.
U earned it.
Champions live 4ever!!!!
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2021, 10:18:02 PM
D3 Soccer board MVP 2021.....
TIE....Mr.Right, SimpleCoach
I second that emotion.
Mr. Right MVP
Simple Coach Most improved Player 2021.
Well done boys, even more credit to NESAC and an old school Williams die hard.
Quote from: Saint of Old on December 04, 2021, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2021, 10:18:02 PM
D3 Soccer board MVP 2021.....
TIE....Mr.Right, SimpleCoach
I second that emotion.
Mr. Right MVP
Simple Coach Most improved Player 2021.
Well done boys, even more credit to NESAC and an old school Williams die hard.
I would like to thank the Academy for having such confidence in me. My parents for birthing me. My wife for putting up with me. God for guiding me. And most importantly, my therapist who has encouraged me to embrace my insanity.
It's been fun this fall ... And am hoping there is more to come!
Quote from: Saint of Old on December 04, 2021, 10:52:24 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 04, 2021, 10:18:02 PM
D3 Soccer board MVP 2021.....
TIE....Mr.Right, SimpleCoach
I second that emotion.
Mr. Right MVP
Simple Coach Most improved Player 2021.
Well done boys, even more credit to NESAC and an old school Williams die hard.
SOL, I think you probably mean Newcomer of the Year for SimpleCoach but thanks for seconding the nominations.
Great post about what this will mean for the Conn Coll group going forward.
Gotta say I'm surprised and a little disappointed that many of the regular and even newbie regulars haven't chimed in with congratulations or something after last night. Regardless of what anyone thinks about the play on the field, we just had a national title game with high drama that went to PKs, with an unlikely and imo pretty inspirational champion. I'm bitterly disappointed my team wasn't there, but come on, step outside yourselves for a minute and recognize the accomplishment.
I recall during the college search visiting Conn College. Beautiful school and compared to most D3s and other higher end LACs really, really nice, but compared to other NESCACs and some other NESCAC-like LACs around the country the campus felt a little run down and both academically/athletically Conn felt like somewhat of an underdog compared to its more highly acclaimed brethren. 10 or so years ago, in 2019, or even two months ago, I would have never guessed the Connecticut College Camels would be D3 soccer national champions.
Just an extraordinary accomplishment... and with an amazingly good coach whose youth and manner would never have suggested this was coming. I mean the guy is 30 or 31, was coaching at some place as an asst at some place in Georgia most of us had never heard of just a few years ago, then an asst at Conn I assume largely because he is a New England guy originally, was probably an unlikely choice to be a NESCAC HC at least at that stage of his career, and just guided his outstanding team to a national title like he was Martin, Russo, Souders, Shapiro, Serpone, or whoever.
Super happy for Conn College. I love their style, super dangerous in the final third, great build up play. Although the final played out a little bit differently, Their coach should be quite happy.
Quote from: Novacat on December 05, 2021, 10:21:36 AM
Super happy for Conn College. I love their style, super dangerous in the final third, great build up play. Although the final played out a little bit differently, Their coach should be quite happy.
I knew these boys would win the Chip!
It takes a champion to beat a champion. The team defeated a dynasty in an elite eight game which is not easy to do and brings back memories of Tufts and a young coach taking down the last dynasty before them in a similarly crazy game on their way to the mountain top. Teams that win games like that dont look back.
To complete the journey they had to go up against another former champion who threw the kitchen sink at them.
The problem for NESCAC and maybe the entire country is that once a recipe is figured out by a coach that young and forward thinking, the only thing to do is rinse and repeat. The program will be around and doing well for quite a while it seems from the outside looking in.
The people who read these threads and are obsessed with football understand the levels we are talking about.
In soccer, there is no real D1,D2 D3 so to speak.
There are levels.
The boys who played this weekend would step on many D1 rosters in the country. The level of soccer for teams who are in the Sweet 16 is very strong.
This accomplishment is big indeed. Over 400teams start the season with a chance to win it all.
Whatever man has done man can do.
Now each and every player down the line who wears the CC shirt has an understanding that they can and should win the entire thing.
Yep, PN, that was my thought too... Rookie/Newcomer of the Year... in a landslide.
Thanks to all who made this such a fun season... Very much looking forward to next year and hopefully helping SC boost his YouTube numbers and jumping in on the National Poll.
Congrats to CC, thought they would at some point fold to Amherst but that never happened,like I said earlier they have a deeper bench than Amherst and that helped in the marathon.
Congrats to CC and to all teams who competed in division 3 soccer this season! not easy to stay motivated after the year off, and basically waiting 2 years between seasons, but was fantastic to see a lot of talented and hardworking young adults competing! Also thanks to the community here at d3Boards for always giving the sparknotes for those who can't watch a game. Some super cool people on this forum! As the boards go a bit quiet over the next few months, will look forward to talking to you all in the new year. I'm based in the NYC area so if anyone wants to grab a drink or coffee sometime in the new year feel free to PM. Could do some sort of d3boards event or something haha!!
Happy Holidays in advance to you all!
So, possibly my last post on here for a while, but I think it needs to be said:
For all the shots taken at Amherst over the last week, particularly their Senior goalie, I have to point out how gracious he was in defeat last night. Hugging and giving a lot of props to his opponents after having his heart ripped out, after going O for 4 on those PKs. Some of us have been there. That's not an easy thing to stomach, to say the least.
Maybe it's too little too late for some of us, but I wanted to call that out and give the GK and the other Amherst players who went out of their way to be good sports in defeat last night. Was a very touching thing to see.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on December 05, 2021, 04:09:43 PM
So, possibly my last post on here for a while, but I think it needs to be said:
For all the shots taken at Amherst over the last week, particularly their Senior goalie, I have to point out how gracious he was in defeat last night. Hugging and giving a lot of props to his opponents after having his heart ripped out, after going O for 4 on those PKs. Some of us have been there. That's not an easy thing to stomach, to say the least.
Maybe it's too little too late for some of us, but I wanted to call that out and give the GK and the other Amherst players who went out of their way to be good sports in defeat last night. Was a very touching thing to see.
I keep thinking I've done my last post for a while and obviously not. I am very surprised it's been so dead here after the game and all day today.
I'm not going to feel bad for Amherst in general, as they have after all made two consecutive finals and like 20 straight Sweet 16s...but as with everything the truth is always more complicated than we think. I commented on the apparent contrast between how Serpone's behavior is described during games and what we see in press conferences and how he was with his players after the game. I don't know what Hope-Gund did against Middlebury and I didn't love him yapping at Conn and Chicago players who got fouled in the box as though they were simulating, but certainly seeing him sob on his coach's shoulder was moving, and if Amherst wins that game he is imo the Final 4 MVP in a landslide. He had an outstanding tournament (as I think several posters have noted), saving them against Chicago and preventing Conn from going up 2-0 which would have sealed the final. Maybe others do, but I know nothing about his backstory except to say I'm sure there is one. If I have this right, he is a 5th year senior who was never the regular starter and didn't play much over his 4-5 years, and wasn't the starter this year until the other GK got hurt. And I credit both teams for seeking each other out afterwards. All of them will remember their journeys for decades to come.
On another note, the bright lights here this year for me are marked by the increased engagement of previously active folks like yourself and @jknezek, Mr.Right having his best year here ever with his efficiency with far less time on the board but all of his posts packed with insight and details, the arrival of SimpleCoach, the steady presence of some old stand-bys, the emergence of people like @Another Mom and others. And I'm curious to see how the apparent contradiction between the board struggling with participation levels and new bright lights emerging will play out moving forward.
Awww, @Paul Newman, you made my day!
I hope this board continues to be somewhat active, where else can I talk about my soccer obsession?!
My son spent a fair amount of time with both the Amherst and Conn programs during recruiting, so I was particularly interested in the final. I liked both programs a lot but was rooting hard for Conn! And we know Peter Silvester (not well) so it was especially sweet to see his performance last night.
Quote from: Another Mom on December 05, 2021, 05:53:25 PM
Awww, @Paul Newman, you made my day!
I hope this board continues to be somewhat active, where else can I talk about my soccer obsession?!
My son spent a fair amount of time with both the Amherst and Conn programs during recruiting, so I was particularly interested in the final. I liked both programs a lot but was rooting hard for Conn! And we know Peter Silvester (not well) so it was especially sweet to see his performance last night.
And your son had a nice freshman season. I expect we'll be talking about him in great detail at some point over the next 3 years.
I certainly hope you guys are not planning to hibernate until next season, there are a lot of things we can discuss to keep us busy until they start playing again.
I wanted to sincerely thank all the regulars and all contributors here. The insights, sidebars, emotions, play-by-play breakdowns, player profiles, debates and enthusiasm and emotion conveyed adds so much to the season
I've been a lurker here on the D3 soccer/lacrosse boards for many, many, many years through good years and bad. I'm an old Camel player from the late 70s under their first coach Bill Lessig (who passed away a few years ago).
Of course, this season was incredible to go through, and as I live in Connecticut saw many games in person. And before and after each would check the boards sometimes holding my breath to see what Mr. Right and many others had to predict.
Thanks again!!! Great stuff and always adds a lot to every season... and made this season even more special.
007 Well done and congrats o the title man.
I realize that the distance between us is probably that between me and the current boys.
I think you just summed up what this website board is all about. The fun, comradery and hope of alums old school, new school, parents etc rooting for our school and then to see a brand new champion crowned it does not get better.
Watching your team win it all knowing that you contributed in blood sweat and tears during your time at the school and on the team.
Many of us are waiting on our team t climb that mountain again, or for the first time (even more special).
Alums/Future players everyone associated with CC, you are now champions always and 4ever.
Quote from: PaulNewman on December 05, 2021, 05:30:24 PM
On another note, the bright lights here this year for me are marked by the increased engagement of previously active folks like yourself and @jknezek, Mr.Right having his best year here ever with his efficiency with far less time on the board but all of his posts packed with insight and details, the arrival of SimpleCoach, the steady presence of some old stand-bys, the emergence of people like @Another Mom and others.
100% agree. It's been a fun season of commentary on the boards. Thanks to all who contributed and made that possible.
Connecticut College won the Men's D3 soccer national championship................wow.
Reuben Burk...take a bow...and dust off the mantel for a couple of COY awards. And don't forget to shave! You're almost 30 now.
Pat Flinn just took the head job at Drake, so UChicago will be on the hunt once again. They've struck gold on the last two hires, here's hoping they make it three in-a-row.
https://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/msoc/2021-22/releases/20220105lew9ss (https://athletics.uchicago.edu/sports/msoc/2021-22/releases/20220105lew9ss)
Coast to Coast Conference adds UW-Platteville for mens soccer only. They made the NCAA 2nd round in '18 and '17. Sweet 16 in '12. Pretty strong group w/ CNU, UMW, Salisbury, UW-Whitewater, UC-Santa Cruz, and UW-Platteville.
Former Montclair State midfielder Michael Knapp was drafted by Austin FC in the third round of the MLS SuperDraft today. He played 2 years at Montclair before joining Red Bull II.
https://montclairathletics.com/news/2022/1/11/mens-soccer-knapp-drafted-to-austin-fc-in-mls-superdraft.aspx
Wilkes and Lycoming bolting for the Landmark from the MAC-Freedom effective 2023. That leaves the MACF at 7 teams and bumps the Landmark to 10. I suspect there will be some more changes forthcoming in the MAC?
https://www.landmarkconference.org/general/2021-22/releases/14102022-landmark-expansion
Does there tend to be much conference movement in D3?
Tons. And with recent NCAA changes to 6 conference members for an AQ we are likely set for another round.