D3boards.com

D3soccer.com => Men's soccer => Topic started by: Kuiper on August 02, 2022, 03:27:57 PM

Title: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on August 02, 2022, 03:27:57 PM
Pre-Season Rankings are out for DIII Men's Soccer.  Surprises?

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Pre-season Poll - August 2, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Connecticut College    1    19-4-2
2    Amherst College    2    17-3-2
3    Washington & Lee University    3    18-2-2
4    University Of Chicago    4    16-6-1
5    Messiah University    5    19-2-2
6    Tufts University    6    15-2-4
7    North Park University    7    16-6-0
8    Middlebury College    8    13-5-3
9    Calvin University    9    17-4-2
10    SUNY Cortland    10    18-3-1
11    Christopher Newport University    11    12-5-2
12    University of Redlands    12    17-3-1
13    Trinity University (Texas)    13    14-2-2
14    Washington College (Md.)    14    15-5-1
15    St. Olaf College    15    19-3-1
16    John Carroll University    16    14-4-2
17    Kenyon College    17    16-3-1
18    Hanover College    18    16-5-1
19    Franklin & Marshall College    19    15-4-1
20    Washington University (Mo.)    20    13-3-1
21    Ohio Wesleyan University    21    15-3-2
22    Emory University    22    9-4-5
23    Montclair State University    23    17-4-1
24    Otterbein University    24    15-2-4
25    Stevens Institute Of Technology    25    13-6-3

Records shown are final 2021 records.

Also receiving votes: New York University, Johns Hopkins University, Rowan University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Claremont-McKenna-Harvey Mudd-Scripps Colleges, Kean University, Pacific Lutheran University, Gustavus Adolphus College, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on August 02, 2022, 03:44:53 PM
I realize that putting "surprises" is probably not the right word, since this is just last year's rankings reproduced.  So, the better question is where is this off-base now that people might know who has left (coach or player), who is coming etc?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: stlawus on August 02, 2022, 05:25:47 PM
Decently tracks with Massey which just updated for the new season.   One surprise in my view is Cortland being as high as they are.  They will have a good season, but 10 seems a bit high given they lost several 5th year players from last season which includes a 16 goal scorer, 10 of which were game winners.  However, I hope they are as good as 10 to start the season since I selfishly want SLU's SOS to be high.

From a Massey standpoint Stevens is a surprise since they are 66 on his rankings, but that's obviously a much less reliable metric at this point.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on August 02, 2022, 08:22:28 PM
I know that Cortland has one?  Two?  D1 transfers coming in.  I know one of them and just physically, he is a beast.

SC.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Another Mom on August 02, 2022, 10:13:44 PM
I just took a look at Massey. In a word -- ridiculous.  I do realize it gets more accurate as the season goes on. But until then, ridiculous.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: stlawus on August 03, 2022, 05:57:00 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 02, 2022, 08:22:28 PM
I know that Cortland has one?  Two?  D1 transfers coming in.  I know one of them and just physically, he is a beast.

SC.

Cortland does have a history of getting D1 transfers under Axtel, their current #7 is a transfer from Syracuse who impressed me quite a bit when I saw them play SLU last year.  Again I have no doubt Cortland will have a solid team, they just lose a lot of senior leadership that is not always easy to replace.  I only mean to say that it's possible Cortland does not start out as good as #10, I am not trying to imply they are vastly overrated, as they most assuredly will not be given their head coach.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: EnmoreCat on August 04, 2022, 03:59:32 AM
Was the 2021 version particularly predictive, or any other seasons' for that matter?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BigSoccerFan on August 06, 2022, 10:11:01 AM
https://masseyratings.com/csoc2022/ncaa-d3/ratings

Statistically these rankings seem to be pretty spot on
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Ejay on August 06, 2022, 02:57:46 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on August 02, 2022, 10:13:44 PM
I just took a look at Massey. In a word -- ridiculous.  I do realize it gets more accurate as the season goes on. But until then, ridiculous.

Quote from: BigSoccerFan on August 06, 2022, 10:11:01 AM
https://masseyratings.com/csoc2022/ncaa-d3/ratings

Statistically these rankings seem to be pretty spot on

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/896/332/1b1.gif)


Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BigSoccerFan on August 06, 2022, 04:30:33 PM
Well it uses statistics and predictive numbers over gut feeling.  Dont all polls get better with more data.  If you notice it does more than d3 soccer
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Ejay on August 07, 2022, 11:14:14 AM
I don't know.  I think this is the year Hamilton does indeed finish above Calvin, Trinity (TX), OWU, Kenyon, Hopkins, F&M and Montclair.  I mean, they've been thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to winning the National Championship every year.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Saint of Old on August 07, 2022, 03:24:22 PM
Sad and unfortunate story with Hamilton man, were one of the better teams in the Liberty League conference late 90s- 2006-8 always competing hard, then went to NESCAC and just have not been no where close to where they should be.
Maybe it is the travel (although that does not seem to hurt Vassar) or crazy quality we have seen in NESCAC over the past decade and a half.
I still think that Hamilton should be doing much better than they have been.
Like I said, the NESCAC is tough, when you have Champions (Williams/Middlebury/Amherst/Tufts/Conn College) playing each week it can take its toll.
Should also lead to quality football overtime. Hope we see it soon from Hamilton.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on August 07, 2022, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!

@Another Mom.  I've blocked December 15th at 10:00 for a possible hat eating episode ... although am with you on this one.  No way.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BigSoccerFan on August 08, 2022, 08:38:13 PM
Quote from: Ejay on August 07, 2022, 11:14:14 AM
I don't know.  I think this is the year Hamilton does indeed finish above Calvin, Trinity (TX), OWU, Kenyon, Hopkins, F&M and Montclair.  I mean, they've been thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to winning the National Championship every year.

Not sure.  I offerred up a  optional poll that seemsto take more into account  and you got touchy.  Enjoy the upcoming season. 
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: jknezek on August 09, 2022, 09:31:46 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 07, 2022, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!

@Another Mom.  I've blocked December 15th at 10:00 for a possible hat eating episode ... although am with you on this one.  No way.

Oh man... it must be something about us W&L people. I made that same hat eating statement about something on the football boards maybe 5 or 6 years ago now. Might be more. I lost. I hope this all turns out better for you than me, but just in case I highly recommend this recipe. Don't ask for my video. It's long gone....

https://www.magicaldaydream.com/2013/08/how-to-make-edible-nacho-party-hat.html
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Gregory Sager on August 09, 2022, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2022, 09:31:46 AM
https://www.magicaldaydream.com/2013/08/how-to-make-edible-nacho-party-hat.html

That's the kind of genius that put Americans on the moon.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Hopkins92 on August 09, 2022, 11:45:58 AM
Because the moon is made of cheese. Really good point.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: jknezek on August 09, 2022, 11:51:35 AM
Quote from: jknezek on August 09, 2022, 09:31:46 AM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 07, 2022, 04:53:22 PM
Quote from: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!

@Another Mom.  I've blocked December 15th at 10:00 for a possible hat eating episode ... although am with you on this one.  No way.

Oh man... it must be something about us W&L people. I made that same hat eating statement about something on the football boards maybe 5 or 6 years ago now. Might be more. I lost. I hope this all turns out better for you than me, but just in case I highly recommend this recipe. Don't ask for my video. It's long gone....

https://www.magicaldaydream.com/2013/08/how-to-make-edible-nacho-party-hat.html

I went back and looked it up. It was 2013 and I didn't end up eating the hat for what I posted on the Football boards that year. I won that round. But I did eat a hat for something around that time, so my mouth must have written more than one check for hat eating around 2013. I blame having toddler twin boys in 2013 for my stupidity...
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 13, 2022, 01:41:39 PM
Here are the USC rankings for Sept 13, which are effectively the first real rankings of the season

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 1 - September 13, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Connecticut College    1    1-0-1
2    Amherst College    2    2-0-1
3    University of Chicago    4    5-0-0
4    Messiah University    5    3-0-1
5    Tufts University    6    1-0-1
6    North Park University    7    4-0-0
7    University of Rochester    NR    3-0-0
8    Kenyon College    17    4-0-0
9    Middlebury College    8    1-0-1
10    Calvin University    9    4-0-1
11    Stevens Institute Of Technology    25    4-0-1
12    Johns Hopkins University    RV    3-0-2
13    Washington & Lee University    3    3-1-0
14    Pacific Lutheran University    RV    4-0-0
15    Brandeis University    NR    2-1-1
16    Gustavus Adolphus College    RV    3-0-2
17    SUNY Cortland    10    3-2-0
18    Carnegie Mellon University    NR    4-0-0
19    SUNY Oneonta    NR    4-0-0
20    Montclair State University    23    1-0-3
21    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    NR    4-0-0
22    Babson College    NR    1-1-1
23    Covenant College    NR    2-0-1
24    Wartburg College    NR    3-0-2
25    York College (Pa.)    NR    3-1-1
25    University of Texas-Dallas    NR    3-0-1

Records shown are through games of Sept. 11, 2022

Also receiving votes: Denison University, Loras College, University of Mary Washington, Bowdoin College, Stockton University, Pacific University, Clarkson University, Milwaukee School of Engineering, Claremont-McKenna-Harvey Mudd-Scripps Colleges, University of Lynchburg, Gettysburg College, University of Dallas
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on September 13, 2022, 01:53:54 PM
I gotta say that this much maligned poll nailed it up to about #14.  We can debate placement but those are exactly the 14 that would be in my top 14.  And the rest of the list has no egregious errors imo although CMU's very narrow and very fortunate win at JCU with 8 secs left is working hard here.  I would want to see at least one more solid win before ranking CMU given their otherwise extremely soft schedule which remains pretty soft until UAA play begins.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 13, 2022, 02:47:52 PM
A what allowed this week's USC ranking to be so reasonable is that it did not follow their typical and long-standing pattern of placing all the regional #1's at the top of the ranking followed by all the regional #2's before ranking any regional #3's.  There are four Region II (NESCAC) schools in the Top 10 whereas in the past only one of them would have been there and one of them wouldn't have even been ranked at all.  There was one season in the past--I'm thinking 6 or 7 years ago--when they made a break from their pattern for several weeks and then it was back to the status quo.  It didn't deviate from the pattern as much as this weeks ranking does, but it seemed like a move in the right direction only to be short-lived.  If this week's poll is indicative of how the USC will operate moving forward, that is certainly a very positive development. 
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: camosfan on September 13, 2022, 04:52:52 PM
They may be generous to Rochester.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: blue_jays on September 15, 2022, 12:56:24 AM
Quote from: camosfan on September 13, 2022, 04:52:52 PM
They may be generous to Rochester.

This is a trend every year with Rochester's poll placement
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: stlawus on September 16, 2022, 09:31:52 PM
Quote from: blue_jays on September 15, 2022, 12:56:24 AM
Quote from: camosfan on September 13, 2022, 04:52:52 PM
They may be generous to Rochester.

This is a trend every year with Rochester's poll placement

Rochester has an uncanny ability to get the most favorable rankings and pool C considerations year in, year out.  Basketball is the same way.   
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 02:58:57 PM
The USC rankings for Sept 20.    I'm having a hard time understanding how Amherst goes from #2 in the Sept 13 poll to not even receiving any votes in the Sept 20 poll when the only thing that happened was a loss to Tufts.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 2 - September 20, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    3    7-0-0
2    Messiah University    4    5-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    11    6-0-1
3    Kenyon College    8    5-0-0
5    North Park University    6    6-0-0
6    Johns Hopkins University    12    5-0-2
7    Gustavus Adolphus College    16    5-0-2
8    Carnegie Mellon University    18    6-0-0
9    Wesleyan University    NR    5-0-0
10    Calvin University    10    5-0-2
11    Bowdoin College    NR    5-0-0
12    Willamette University    NR    4-0-2
13    SUNY Cortland    17    4-2-1
14    Babson College    22    3-1-1
15    Washington & Lee University    13    4-1-1
16    Denison University    RV    4-0-2
17    Loras College    RV    4-1-0
18    SUNY Oneonta    19    4-0-1
19    Hamilton College    NR    4-0-0
20    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    21    5-0-1
21    Montclair State University    20    3-0-3
22    Christopher Newport University    NR    4-1-0
23    Gettysburg College    RV    4-0-1
24    Clarkson University    RV    5-0-0
25    Pacific Lutheran University    14    5-1-0

Records shown are through games of Sept. 18, 2022

Also receiving votes: United States Coast Guard Academy, University of Mary Washington, University of Rochester, Williams College, Stockton University, Franklin & Marshall College, Tufts University, Hampden-Sydney College, Middlebury College, Roger Williams University
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 02:58:57 PM
I'm having a hard time understanding how Amherst goes from #2 in the Sept 13 poll to not even receiving any votes in the Sept 20 poll when the only thing that happened was a loss to Tufts.

I am most certainly not a fan, but from a purely comedic standpoint, its great.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on September 20, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
If these high Carnegie Mellon rankings age well, I'll eat my hat...and yours!
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 03:22:43 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 02:58:57 PM
I'm having a hard time understanding how Amherst goes from #2 in the Sept 13 poll to not even receiving any votes in the Sept 20 poll when the only thing that happened was a loss to Tufts.

I am most certainly not a fan, but from a purely comedic standpoint, its great.

I probably shouldn't have singled out Amherst.  After all, Connecticut College went from #1 to not receiving a single vote either after losing to Bowdoin, who went from NR to #11 on the strength solely of beating Conn (who, apparently, isn't very good after all)-
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Maine Soccer Fan on September 20, 2022, 03:31:53 PM
I live 20 minutes from Bowdoin so now I'm feeling obligated to watch them play given that they're ranked. I guess being undefeated is worth something.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: jknezek on September 20, 2022, 03:41:09 PM
Just reinforces how happy I am to have the d3soccer poll back, because this is... odd.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 20, 2022, 04:41:23 PM
Well, the first USC national ranking did not follow their typical pattern of placing all the regional #1's at the top, followed by all the regional #2's, before placing any of the regional #3's.  However, despite the long-overdue flexibility in the order of teams, it still appeared they were forcing a certain level of regional balance/equity as all regions had 2 or 3 teams ranked except the NESCAC's region which got 4 teams ranked. 

This week's ranking, while again showing atypical flexibility in how teams are ordered, has 2 or 3 teams ranked from every region except Region II with a lone representative. 

Two weeks is too soon to draw conclusions, but these first two USC national rankings suggest that typically the top 3 teams in each region are in the mix for a national ranking (which isn't much of a change from how it's always been), and only as an exception would a fourth team from a stronger/deeper region really get considered and only as an exception would a regional No. 2 not make the Top 25.  It's great that there's new found freedom to recognize that some regions second and third teams can be better than another regions best team, but it doesn't yet fully embrace the idea (and truth) that some regions have more top teams than other regions.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
I've thrown out my Top 25 here... among other things.

Around D3 (https://youtu.be/OPzTxm66zpQ)
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
I've thrown out my Top 25 here... among other things.

Around D3 (https://youtu.be/OPzTxm66zpQ)

Just because I doubt anyone from Willamette is among your listeners (and probably no one from there is on this Board), I will say what the students would say in response to your pronunciation of their school's name:

"WILLAMETTE, DAMN IT!"
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 06:33:34 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on September 20, 2022, 05:41:48 PM
Quote from: SimpleCoach on September 20, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
I've thrown out my Top 25 here... among other things.

Around D3 (https://youtu.be/OPzTxm66zpQ)

Just because I doubt anyone from Willamette is among your listeners (and probably no one from there is on this Board), I will say what the students would say in response to your pronunciation of their school's name:

"WILLAMETTE, DAMN IT!"

A SIMPLECOACH ANNOUNCEMENT

As a result of linguistic challenges, from this day forward all videos and commentary shall be done using interpretive dance.

SC.   
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 30, 2022, 12:21:11 AM
I'm a couple of days late for posting these, but here are the rankings for Sept 27.  It has 3 NESCAC schools and 3 UAA school in the top 25 for those keeping track.

National - Poll 3 - September 27, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    9-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    7-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    7-0-1
4    Kenyon College    3    8-0-0
5    North Park University    5    8-0-0
6    Johns Hopkins University    6    6-0-2
7    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    6-0-2
8    Carnegie Mellon University    8    7-0-1
9    Wesleyan University    9    6-0-1
10    Willamette University    12    6-0-2
11    Calvin University    10    6-1-2
12    Hamilton College    19    6-0-1
13    Washington & Lee University    15    6-1-1
14    SUNY Oneonta    18    6-0-1
15    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    20    7-0-1
16    United States Coast Guard Academy    RV    6-0-1
17    Christopher Newport University    22    6-1-0
18    Babson College    14    5-2-1
19    Clarkson University    24    6-0-1
20    Montclair State University    21    5-1-3
21    Gettysburg College    23    5-0-2
22    University of Rochester    RV    5-1-1
23    Williams College    RV    3-0-4
24    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    NR    12-0-0
25    University of Lynchburg    NR    4-0-4

Records shown are through games of Sept. 25, 2022

Also receiving votes: Bowdoin College, SUNY Cortland, Baldwin-Wallace University, Middlebury College, Pacific Lutheran University, Denison University, Loras College, Wartburg College, Franklin & Marshall College, North Central College, Sewanee-University of the South, Amherst College
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 01:33:39 PM
Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Another Mom on October 04, 2022, 01:49:41 PM
Wait, no Tufts or Amherst  or Connecticut College -- and they didn't even receive any votes??
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on October 04, 2022, 02:23:25 PM
Just because.... my Top 25 just came out...

Around D3 (https://youtu.be/3B_CmXRuSgU)
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 04, 2022, 02:50:05 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 01:33:39 PM
Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South

Yep. Based upon the new d3soccer.com poll and the fan poll we just did, Willamette sitting way up there at #7 looks like an extreme outlier. I'd chalk it up to the USC's ongoing desire to exhibit regional equity, but that explanation doesn't cover Coast Guard -- which didn't appear on any ballots at all in either the fan poll or the d3soccer.com poll.

Then again, what would a USC poll be if it had nothing in it that completely mystified us?

(In case anyone's wondering, Massey has Willamette at #28 with a #67 SOS, while Coast Guard is at #41 with a #169 SOS.)
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 08:57:07 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on October 04, 2022, 02:50:05 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 01:33:39 PM
Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South

Yep. Based upon the new d3soccer.com poll and the fan poll we just did, Willamette sitting way up there at #7 looks like an extreme outlier. I'd chalk it up to the USC's ongoing desire to exhibit regional equity, but that explanation doesn't cover Coast Guard -- which didn't appear on any ballots at all in either the fan poll or the d3soccer.com poll.

Then again, what would a USC poll be if it had nothing in it that completely mystified us?

(In case anyone's wondering, Massey has Willamette at #28 with a #67 SOS, while Coast Guard is at #41 with a #169 SOS.)

Maybe the USC poll voters knew something about Coast Guard that the fans did not.  With a 2-0 win over Wesleyan tonight, Coast Guard's strength of schedule - and ranking - should rise
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Gregory Sager on October 04, 2022, 10:20:08 PM
The fans, the d3soccer.com pollsters, and Ken Massey's HAL 9000.

Kudos to the USC pollsters for crystal-balling that massive Coast Guard win.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Hopkins92 on October 04, 2022, 10:31:45 PM
After this, I'm not going to dig any further into the NESCAC=SEC pit, I promise. But if this was big time college football, you'd have a LOT of people questioning the "NESCAC is always and forever the best conference in the world" messaging right now after this Coast Guard win.

As an example, and I promise this is the last time I'll go down this OT route, but... GA had a helluva time with Mizzou last weekend, and Kirby Smart (UGa's head coach) immediately started lobbying about how hard it is to win on the road in the SEC. But a  lot of folks were like, c'mon, that's BS... Mizzou is not a very good team and you guys struggled. Not every SEC team is the end all be all... stop it.

IOW, just because NESCAC eats their own early in their season doesn't mean they are playing at a higher level and we all just have to wait it out to see who the eventual national champion is going to be. Maybe.. Just maybe.. It's a down year. I'm not denigrating the league, but when you don't play as many OOC games, it's really asking a lot for us to keep putting teams that are hovering around .500 in the top 25.

Simple Coach's video today kind of, sort of, got close to where this may be heading. CC, Tufts and Amherst in many folks' opinions aren't as sharp as we're used to seeing. It's Ok to say that. Yes, history says they will be tough outs in November. But we also need to be open to the idea that not all of these teams are potential Final 8/4 teams.

Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SimpleCoach on October 05, 2022, 07:15:58 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 04, 2022, 10:31:45 PM
Simple Coach's video today kind of, sort of, got close to where this may be heading. CC, Tufts and Amherst in many folks' opinions aren't as sharp as we're used to seeing. It's Ok to say that. Yes, history says they will be tough outs in November. But we also need to be open to the idea that not all of these teams are potential Final 8/4 teams.

Thanks @Hopkins92 for watching!  It's one thing to not be fine and need some more time to get things working.  It's a completely other thing to be playing poorly, and not seeing how it gets better.  I think that's where I am with the NESCAC teams.

SC. 
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BaboNation on October 05, 2022, 12:20:11 PM
The Coast Guard @ Babson game on Saturday is becoming even more compelling.

CG will come in 7-1-2, fresh off the Wesleyan win and with a stingy back line.
Babson comes in 7-2-2, playing better (admittedly against weaker opponents in the last 2) and Ben Williams is back after missing the Tufts game.

Yesterday's 7-0 win over Suffolk was one of those woke-up-on-the-wrong-side-of-the-bed games for Suffolk.  It began when their keeper set up to boot an outlet from his line but struck a stationary Babson player (with his back turned) and the ricochet popped over the keeper's head milliseconds after his follow through.  Then an own goal off a header;  then a cross to an unmarked Williams dead-center in front of the goal from 8 yards.  Just one of those days.  While Suffolk isn't elite, they did beat MIT 3-0, who handed Coast Guard its only loss, who ... well you know the rest

Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Coach Jeff on October 10, 2022, 11:47:52 AM
I missed the Babson CG game saw it ended 3-0 for Babson.  Was it one sided or a competitive match?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 11, 2022, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 04, 2022, 01:33:39 PM
Here are the new rankings for D3 men's soccer for Oct 4.  I'm not sure Willamette is really 7th (I'm not sure they are the best in the West even considering they tied Cal Lutheran and CMS), but they did win two games and Carnegie Mellon and Wesleyan both lost and Gustavus Adolphus tied Wisconsin-Whitewater.

National - Poll 4 - October 4, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    10-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    9-0-1
3    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    8-0-1
4    Kenyon College    4    9-0-0
5    Johns Hopkins University    6    8-0-2
6    North Park University    5    9-1-0
7    Willamette University    10    8-0-2
8    Hamilton College    12    7-0-1
9    Washington & Lee University    13    8-1-1
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    7    7-0-3
11    Calvin University    11    8-1-2
12    Middlebury College    RV    5-1-2
13    Montclair State University    20    8-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    8    8-1-1
15    Babson College    18    6-2-2
16    SUNY Oneonta    14    7-1-1
17    Wesleyan University    9    6-1-1
18    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    15    7-0-2
19    University of Lynchburg    25    6-0-4
20    Franklin & Marshall College    RV    7-1-1
21    Clarkson University    19    7-1-1
22    Bowdoin College    RV    6-1-1
23    University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire    24    13-0-0
24    Christopher Newport University    17    7-2-0
25    United States Coast Guard Academy    16    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of Oct. 2, 2022

Also receiving votes: Gettysburg College, Williams College, Pacific Lutheran University, Catholic University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Ohio Northern University, North Central College, Luther College, Sewanee-University of the South

Here are the new rankings for Oct 11.  Same 1-7 teams, although Kenyon jumps Stevens.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 5 - October 11, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    12-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    11-0-1
3    Kenyon College    4    10-0-1
4    Stevens Institute Of Technology    3    9-0-2
5    Johns Hopkins University    5    9-0-3
6    North Park University    6    10-1-0
7    Willamette University    7    9-0-2
8    Gustavus Adolphus College    10    8-0-3
9    Hamilton College    8    8-0-3
10    Washington & Lee University    9    8-1-3
11    Calvin University    11    10-1-2
12    Middlebury College    12    7-1-2
13    Montclair State University    13    9-1-3
14    Carnegie Mellon University    14    9-1-1
15    Babson College    15    8-2-2
16    University of Lynchburg    19    7-0-5
17    SUNY Cortland    NR    9-3-2
18    Franklin & Marshall College    20    8-1-2
19    Christopher Newport University    24    8-2-1
20    Amherst College    NR    7-1-4
21    Luther College    RV    8-1-3
22    Gettysburg College    RV    7-1-3
23    Bowdoin College    22    8-1-2
24    North Central College    RV    10-0-3
25    Pacific Lutheran University    RV    10-2-0

Records shown are through games of Oct. 9, 2022

Also receiving votes: United States Coast Guard Academy, St. Lawrence University, University of Saint Thomas (Texas), Ohio Northern University, St. Mary's College of Maryland, Western Connecticut State University, University of Wisconsin-Platteville
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BigSoccerFan on October 17, 2022, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!

Just checking on the hat...
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on October 17, 2022, 10:24:17 AM
Quote from: BigSoccerFan on October 17, 2022, 09:30:39 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on August 07, 2022, 11:02:07 AM
Well, I stand by my opinion :-)

Seriously,  teams that didn't make the ncaa tournament ranked in the top 10, over a team that finished in the final four? How does that make any sense? What does Massey "think" is changing. One has a longstanding coach, the other doesn't.  Do you think Massey has some special insight into the incoming freshmen?!

I will eat my hat if Williams finishes the year ahead of Washington and Lee -- and I will do it on @simplecoach's YouTube channel to boot!

Just checking on the hat...

LOL.  Did you confuse Williams with Willamette (who also won't be ahead of W&L by end of season)?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Saint of Old on October 17, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
I hope someone confused Williams. Either that or learn about some football tradition and realize that Williams is one of the biggest names in D3 soccer history. Not many teams have won a National Championship been to other final 4s had a 400 game winning coach and one of the strongest alumni bases in the country. Again I'm sure it is a mix up.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on October 17, 2022, 11:09:49 AM
Quote from: Saint of Old on October 17, 2022, 11:03:09 AM
I hope someone confused Williams. Either that or learn about some football tradition and realize that Williams is one of the biggest names in D3 soccer history. Not many teams have won a National Championship been to other final 4s had a 400 game winning coach and one of the strongest alumni bases in the country. Again I'm sure it is a mix up.

Saint, I don't think it was a history question.  It was a question about whether Williams should be ranked ahead of W&L THIS year.  The poster today seemed to be implying that Williams IS ranked ahead of W&L and they are not.  Hence the comment about whether the poster saw the name Willamette and thought he read Williams.  I don't think any assessment of program credentials over the decades was implied.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Hopkins92 on October 17, 2022, 11:18:28 AM
Actually, I think what's happening is Another Mom referenced the Massey rankings in her original post, not the USC rankings. I don't think BSF was necessarily confusing Williamette with Williams, but rather looking at Massey where Williams currently sits 23 and W&L is 22.

She's currently out of the hat eating business, but just barely!!

Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on October 17, 2022, 11:24:18 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on October 17, 2022, 11:18:28 AM
Actually, I think what's happening is Another Mom referenced the Massey rankings in her original post, not the USC rankings. I don't think BSF was necessarily confusing Williamette with Williams, but rather looking at Massey where Williams currently sits 23 and W&L is 22.

She's currently out of the hat eating business, but just barely!!

Good catch, Hopkins...although I think Another Mom has some wiggle room there.  When she wrote "eat hat if finish ahead of W&L at end of season" it's not entirely clear that she's referring to Massey there (especially since she already was questioning the legitimacy/accuracy of Massey from the jump....and since this back and forth happened in the USC rankings thread).

No better way to deal with Monday than some fine-grained textual analyses on a D3 soccer board!
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: jknezek on October 17, 2022, 11:28:56 AM
Nothing like a team that has managed to scrape together 4 wins out of 12 games being ranked in the top 25!
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Saint of Old on October 17, 2022, 11:38:13 AM
Rankings really do not matter.
It is good for the alumni base and I guess bragging rights, but besides the ones just before the dance they are just for show. If anything it puts a bulls-eye on your back. Ask ConnCollege how nice having that bulls-eye is. I would much rather go under the radar, get a good regional ranking towards the end and then attack the dance.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Another Mom on October 17, 2022, 12:35:31 PM
I've been away from the board this morning  -- but the posters are correct, I was referencing *this* season alone. And made my comment because before the season Massey ranked Williams ahead of W&L.

I don't follow all the teams as closely as some of you, but I have a feel for the Williams team having seen them in person several times. My son's high school team even scrimmaged them 3 years ago. Plus I know a few of the players who played with or against my son. I think it's just a different program, at a different point than where W&L is today. That said, W&L this year isn't quite the team it was last year.

Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Another Mom on October 18, 2022, 01:50:14 PM

UNITED SOCCER COACHES TOP 25
NCAA DIII MEN — NATIONAL
Pre-season PollPoll 1Poll 2Poll 3Poll 4Poll 5Poll 6
NATIONAL - POLL 6 - OCTOBER 18, 2022
Rank   School   Prev   W-L-T
1   University of Chicago   1   14-0-0
2   Messiah University   2   13-0-1
3   Kenyon College   3   12-0-1
4   Stevens Institute Of Technology   4   12-0-2
5   Johns Hopkins University   5   11-0-3
6   North Park University   6   11-1-1
7   Middlebury College   12   9-1-2
8   Gustavus Adolphus College   8   10-0-4
9   Calvin University   11   12-1-2
10   Montclair State University   13   11-1-3
11   Washington & Lee University   10   9-1-4
12   University of Lynchburg   16   9-0-5
13   Willamette University   7   10-1-2
14   Bowdoin College   23   9-1-2
15   SUNY Cortland   17   11-3-2
16   Amherst College   20   7-1-4
16   Christopher Newport University   19   9-2-1
18   Babson College   15   9-3-2
19   Franklin & Marshall College   18   9-1-3
20   Pacific Lutheran University   25   12-2-0
21   Ohio Northern University   RV   9-2-3
22   Western Connecticut State University   RV   14-0-1
23   North Central College   24   11-0-4
24   St. Lawrence University   RV   8-1-5
25   Hamilton College   NR   8-1-3
25   University of Wisconsin-Platteville   RV   10-3-2
Records shown are through games of Oct. 16, 2022

Also receiving votes: Carnegie Mellon University, Case Western Reserve University, United States Coast Guard Academy, SUNY Oneonta, Occidental College, University of Mary Washington, Misericordia University, Chapman University, Catholic University, University of Mary Hardin-Baylor


It will be interesting to see which poll/ranking ends up being more accurate by season's end for my Williams friend and I.

Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: paclassic89 on October 18, 2022, 02:22:16 PM
At this point, with the regional rankings coming out this week, these USC rankings are really meaningless.  They are useful earlier in the season to get an idea where teams stand.  W&L will be ranked ahead of Williams the rest of this season (barring an epic collapse)  and it won't be particularly close.  The reason Williams was ranked ahead of W&L in Massey to start the season is because historically they are the stronger program and they play in a tougher conference which boosts their SOS.  It's pure statistics.  There's 0 subjectivity to Massey's ratings
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Shooter McGavin on October 18, 2022, 02:56:47 PM
Curious as to why the USC doesn't adopt the NCAA model for how many teams are ranked in each region. Does anybody know?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 26, 2022, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on October 18, 2022, 01:50:14 PM

UNITED SOCCER COACHES TOP 25
NCAA DIII MEN — NATIONAL
Pre-season PollPoll 1Poll 2Poll 3Poll 4Poll 5Poll 6
NATIONAL - POLL 6 - OCTOBER 18, 2022
Rank   School   Prev   W-L-T
1   University of Chicago   1   14-0-0
2   Messiah University   2   13-0-1
3   Kenyon College   3   12-0-1
4   Stevens Institute Of Technology   4   12-0-2
5   Johns Hopkins University   5   11-0-3
6   North Park University   6   11-1-1
7   Middlebury College   12   9-1-2
8   Gustavus Adolphus College   8   10-0-4
9   Calvin University   11   12-1-2
10   Montclair State University   13   11-1-3
11   Washington & Lee University   10   9-1-4
12   University of Lynchburg   16   9-0-5
13   Willamette University   7   10-1-2
14   Bowdoin College   23   9-1-2
15   SUNY Cortland   17   11-3-2
16   Amherst College   20   7-1-4
16   Christopher Newport University   19   9-2-1
18   Babson College   15   9-3-2
19   Franklin & Marshall College   18   9-1-3
20   Pacific Lutheran University   25   12-2-0
21   Ohio Northern University   RV   9-2-3
22   Western Connecticut State University   RV   14-0-1
23   North Central College   24   11-0-4
24   St. Lawrence University   RV   8-1-5
25   Hamilton College   NR   8-1-3
25   University of Wisconsin-Platteville   RV   10-3-2
Records shown are through games of Oct. 16, 2022

Also receiving votes: Carnegie Mellon University, Case Western Reserve University, United States Coast Guard Academy, SUNY Oneonta, Occidental College, University of Mary Washington, Misericordia University, Chapman University, Catholic University, University of Mary Hardin-Baylor


It will be interesting to see which poll/ranking ends up being more accurate by season's end for my Williams friend and I.

New Rankings for Oct. 17.  Calvin takes a big tumble from 9 to 19 after the 1-0 loss to Albion as does Johns Hopkins from 5 to 15 after the ties to Dickinson and Muhlenberg.  North Central's jump from 23 to 12 seems to reflect the strong performance after it tied North Park on Oct. 12, winning three in a row.

National - Poll 7 - October 25, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    14-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    15-0-1
3    Kenyon College    3    14-0-1
4    Stevens Institute Of Technology    4    14-0-2
5    Gustavus Adolphus College    8    11-0-4
6    Bowdoin College    14    11-1-2
7    Washington & Lee University    11    11-1-4
8    Willamette University    13    12-1-2
9    Franklin & Marshall College    19    11-1-3
10    Amherst College    16    8-1-5
11    Montclair State University    10    12-1-4
12    North Central College    23    13-0-4
13    Ohio Northern University    21    11-2-3
14    Babson College    18    11-3-2
15    Johns Hopkins University    5    11-0-5
16    SUNY Cortland    15    12-4-2
17    University of Mary Washington    RV    9-3-2
18    St. Lawrence University    24    9-1-5
19    Calvin University    9    13-2-2
20    Middlebury College    7    9-2-3
21    Western Connecticut State University    22    16-0-1
22    Endicott College    NR    10-4-4
23    Pacific Lutheran University    20    13-3-0
24    St. Olaf College    NR    11-5-0
25    Christopher Newport University    16    10-3-1

Records shown are through games of Oct. 23, 2022

Also receiving votes: University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Case Western Reserve University, Hamilton College, North Park University, Chapman University, University of Saint Thomas (Texas), Tufts University, United States Coast Guard Academy, University of Lynchburg, University of Mary Hardin-Baylor, SUNY Oneonta, Carnegie Mellon University
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on November 01, 2022, 01:36:30 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 26, 2022, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: Another Mom on October 18, 2022, 01:50:14 PM

UNITED SOCCER COACHES TOP 25
NCAA DIII MEN — NATIONAL
Pre-season PollPoll 1Poll 2Poll 3Poll 4Poll 5Poll 6
NATIONAL - POLL 6 - OCTOBER 18, 2022
Rank   School   Prev   W-L-T
1   University of Chicago   1   14-0-0
2   Messiah University   2   13-0-1
3   Kenyon College   3   12-0-1
4   Stevens Institute Of Technology   4   12-0-2
5   Johns Hopkins University   5   11-0-3
6   North Park University   6   11-1-1
7   Middlebury College   12   9-1-2
8   Gustavus Adolphus College   8   10-0-4
9   Calvin University   11   12-1-2
10   Montclair State University   13   11-1-3
11   Washington & Lee University   10   9-1-4
12   University of Lynchburg   16   9-0-5
13   Willamette University   7   10-1-2
14   Bowdoin College   23   9-1-2
15   SUNY Cortland   17   11-3-2
16   Amherst College   20   7-1-4
16   Christopher Newport University   19   9-2-1
18   Babson College   15   9-3-2
19   Franklin & Marshall College   18   9-1-3
20   Pacific Lutheran University   25   12-2-0
21   Ohio Northern University   RV   9-2-3
22   Western Connecticut State University   RV   14-0-1
23   North Central College   24   11-0-4
24   St. Lawrence University   RV   8-1-5
25   Hamilton College   NR   8-1-3
25   University of Wisconsin-Platteville   RV   10-3-2
Records shown are through games of Oct. 16, 2022

Also receiving votes: Carnegie Mellon University, Case Western Reserve University, United States Coast Guard Academy, SUNY Oneonta, Occidental College, University of Mary Washington, Misericordia University, Chapman University, Catholic University, University of Mary Hardin-Baylor


It will be interesting to see which poll/ranking ends up being more accurate by season's end for my Williams friend and I.

New Rankings for Oct. 17.  Calvin takes a big tumble from 9 to 19 after the 1-0 loss to Albion as does Johns Hopkins from 5 to 15 after the ties to Dickinson and Muhlenberg.  North Central's jump from 23 to 12 seems to reflect the strong performance after it tied North Park on Oct. 12, winning three in a row.

National - Poll 7 - October 25, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Chicago    1    14-0-0
2    Messiah University    2    15-0-1
3    Kenyon College    3    14-0-1
4    Stevens Institute Of Technology    4    14-0-2
5    Gustavus Adolphus College    8    11-0-4
6    Bowdoin College    14    11-1-2
7    Washington & Lee University    11    11-1-4
8    Willamette University    13    12-1-2
9    Franklin & Marshall College    19    11-1-3
10    Amherst College    16    8-1-5
11    Montclair State University    10    12-1-4
12    North Central College    23    13-0-4
13    Ohio Northern University    21    11-2-3
14    Babson College    18    11-3-2
15    Johns Hopkins University    5    11-0-5
16    SUNY Cortland    15    12-4-2
17    University of Mary Washington    RV    9-3-2
18    St. Lawrence University    24    9-1-5
19    Calvin University    9    13-2-2
20    Middlebury College    7    9-2-3
21    Western Connecticut State University    22    16-0-1
22    Endicott College    NR    10-4-4
23    Pacific Lutheran University    20    13-3-0
24    St. Olaf College    NR    11-5-0
25    Christopher Newport University    16    10-3-1

Records shown are through games of Oct. 23, 2022

Also receiving votes: University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Case Western Reserve University, Hamilton College, North Park University, Chapman University, University of Saint Thomas (Texas), Tufts University, United States Coast Guard Academy, University of Lynchburg, University of Mary Hardin-Baylor, SUNY Oneonta, Carnegie Mellon University

These rankings have less meaning than the NCAA region rankings due out tomorrow, but it's still interesting to see how other coaches view the rankings and where teams appear to stack up regionally.  Pacific Lutheran gets a big bump from 23 to 16 with its win over Willamette.  Washington & Lee with a big drop from 7 to 22, presumably because of its 3-0 loss to Guilford, even though they beat them 7-0 in the ODAC QFs the next game.

National - Poll 8 - November 1, 2022
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    2    17-0-1
2    University of Chicago    1    15-0-1
3    Kenyon College    3    15-0-1
4    Stevens Institute of Technology    4    15-0-2
5    Gustavus Adolphus College    5    13-0-4
6    Amherst College    10    11-1-5
7    Franklin & Marshall College    9    12-1-3
8    Bowdoin College    6    11-1-4
9    Montclair State University    11    14-1-4
10    North Central College    12    14-0-4
11    Ohio Northern University    13    13-2-3
12    Christopher Newport University    25    11-3-1
13    Babson College    14    13-3-2
14    SUNY Cortland    16    12-4-2
15    St. Lawrence University    18    11-1-5
16    Pacific Lutheran University    23    15-3-0
17    Calvin University    19    14-2-2
18    University of Mary Washington    17    9-4-2
19    Johns Hopkins University    15    11-1-5
20    Middlebury College    20    10-3-3
21    Western Connecticut State University    21    18-0-1
22    Washington & Lee University    7    12-2-4
23    Endicott College    22    12-4-4
24    Case Western Reserve University    RV    9-3-3
25    Willamette University    8    12-2-3

Records shown are through games of Oct. 30, 2022

Also receiving votes: St. Olaf College, Carnegie Mellon University, University of Saint Thomas (Texas), New York University
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on November 01, 2022, 01:51:29 PM
USC clearly continues to use a hybrid model, better and a little more flexible than prior years but still showing fidelity to including all regions.....hence, no North Park in top 25 or even RV, and if I reviewed correctly no more than 3 teams from any region (except for Region 1 that has 3 NESCACs and W CT...and no NESCACs in RV).
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 13, 2023, 11:39:40 AM
The United Soccer Coaches rankings came out yesterday for 9/12 (before yesterday's games).  This may be one case where the USC rankings make more sense than the first D3Soccer.com Boards rankings (which has a few outliers).

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 1 - September 12, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Mary Washington    4    4-0-0
2    Messiah University    12    4-0-0
2    University of Chicago    1    2-0-1
4    Williams College    2    2-0-0
5    John Carroll University    23    4-0-0
6    Montclair State University    NR    4-0-0
7    University of Rochester    NR    3-0-0
8    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    17    4-0-0
9    Franklin & Marshall College    18    4-0-0
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    8    2-0-2
11    Calvin University    19    5-0-0
12    Amherst College    9    0-0-1
13    SUNY Oneonta    15    4-0-0
14    Christopher Newport University    21    3-0-0
15    Trinity University (Texas)    NR    4-0-0
16    Denison University    NR    4-0-1
17    Rowan University    NR    1-0-3
18    Macalester College    NR    3-0-2
19    Emerson College    NR    1-0-2
20    North Central College    20    5-0-0
21    Middlebury College    NR    1-0-1
22    Case Western Reserve University    NR    4-0-0
23    SUNY Cortland    NR    4-1-0
24    Tufts University    25    2-0-1
25    Emory University    NR    2-0-2
25    North Park University    22    3-0-0

Records shown are through games of September 10, 2023

Also receiving votes: Bowdoin College, Loras College, Babson College, Texas Lutheran University, Johns Hopkins University, Lebanon Valley College, University of Lynchburg, North Central University, Connecticut College, University of Mount Union
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 19, 2023, 06:34:17 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on September 13, 2023, 11:39:40 AM
The United Soccer Coaches rankings came out yesterday for 9/12 (before yesterday's games).  This may be one case where the USC rankings make more sense than the first D3Soccer.com Boards rankings (which has a few outliers).

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 1 - September 12, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Mary Washington    4    4-0-0
2    Messiah University    12    4-0-0
2    University of Chicago    1    2-0-1
4    Williams College    2    2-0-0
5    John Carroll University    23    4-0-0
6    Montclair State University    NR    4-0-0
7    University of Rochester    NR    3-0-0
8    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    17    4-0-0
9    Franklin & Marshall College    18    4-0-0
10    Gustavus Adolphus College    8    2-0-2
11    Calvin University    19    5-0-0
12    Amherst College    9    0-0-1
13    SUNY Oneonta    15    4-0-0
14    Christopher Newport University    21    3-0-0
15    Trinity University (Texas)    NR    4-0-0
16    Denison University    NR    4-0-1
17    Rowan University    NR    1-0-3
18    Macalester College    NR    3-0-2
19    Emerson College    NR    1-0-2
20    North Central College    20    5-0-0
21    Middlebury College    NR    1-0-1
22    Case Western Reserve University    NR    4-0-0
23    SUNY Cortland    NR    4-1-0
24    Tufts University    25    2-0-1
25    Emory University    NR    2-0-2
25    North Park University    22    3-0-0

Records shown are through games of September 10, 2023

Also receiving votes: Bowdoin College, Loras College, Babson College, Texas Lutheran University, Johns Hopkins University, Lebanon Valley College, University of Lynchburg, North Central University, Connecticut College, University of Mount Union

National - Poll 2 - September 19, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    University of Mary Washington    1    6-0-0
2    Williams College    4    4-0-0
3    Messiah University    2    5-0-1
4    John Carroll University    5    5-0-1
5    Montclair State University    6    5-0-1
6    University of Chicago    2    3-1-1
7    University of Rochester    7    4-0-1
7    Amherst College    12    3-0-1
9    Franklin & Marshall College    9    5-0-1
10    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    8    4-0-1
11    Carleton College    NR    7-0-0
12    SUNY Oneonta    13    6-0-0
13    Calvin University    11    6-1-0
14    Trinity University (Texas)    15    4-0-2
15    Babson College    RV    5-2-1
16    Gustavus Adolphus College    10    3-1-2
17    Middlebury College    21    3-0-1
18    University of Mount Union    RV    6-0-0
19    Emory University    25    3-1-2
20    Lebanon Valley College    RV    5-1-0
21    Rowan University    17    2-0-4
22    North Central College    20    6-1-0
23    Macalester College    18    4-1-2
24    SUNY Cortland    23    5-1-1
25    Case Western Reserve University    22    5-0-1

Records shown are through games of September 17, 2023

Also receiving votes: Christopher Newport University, Bowdoin College, Texas Lutheran University, Widener University, Johns Hopkins University, Salve Regina University, Denison University, North Central University, University of Lynchburg

The much-maligned USC coaches poll already knew Mary Washington was number one last week even before Chicago suffered its first loss and Messiah its first tie.  Williams jumps both of them to number 2.  Dropping St. Thomas from 8 to 10 is sort of rough considering its tie was to a DII team when F&M stayed at 9 and its tie was to DIII Haverford, a team that may be improving, but it's not showing up on the win column yet.  Carleton jumps all the way to 11 after not even receiving votes last week.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SKUD on September 19, 2023, 06:49:24 PM
F&M is always rated higher than others.  Doesn't their head coach chair the rankings committee?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SierraFD3soccer on September 19, 2023, 07:18:21 PM
Quote from: SKUD on September 19, 2023, 06:49:24 PM
F&M is always rated higher than others.  Doesn't their head coach chair the rankings committee?

Point being?  The fix is in?

When they lose, they'll drop just like they did in the second game of the season last year against Stevens which ended up a final 4 team.

This year they beat Stevens in their first game. They also beat Lebanon Valley currently ranked 20th as well as Penn State Harrisburg and Rosemont all NCAA qualifies last year. The tie was against Haverford which has not lost yet though 1 win and tied Rowan which is ranked 20th. 

Most importantly they are 2nd behind Messiah regionally which means much much more than natl rankings.

Make your case for your team and were you think they should be. Or how you know the system is corrupt.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: paclassic89 on September 19, 2023, 07:51:10 PM
Agreed, I actually think an argument could be made that F&M's ranking is too low.  I have them 4th in RPI. 
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SKUD on September 19, 2023, 09:02:17 PM
Did I strike a cord with that question? Didn't have a point had an opinion that they are ranked high and I don't think they are ever as good as their rankings.  I also think national-rankings other than the #1 in the final rankings are fun to discuss and meaningless
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: NEPAFAN on September 19, 2023, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: paclassic89 on September 19, 2023, 07:51:10 PM
Agreed, I actually think an argument could be made that F&M's ranking is too low.  I have them 4th in RPI.


Where can I find this?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: paclassic89 on September 19, 2023, 09:36:50 PM
I actually calculate them myself on an excel spreadsheet lol.  I scrape and input the D3 scores every day.  https://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/Home (https://sites.google.com/site/rpifordivisioniwomenssoccer/Home)  This guy (Amherst alum btw) did most of the groundwork and was kind enough to provide me with what he uses and then I modified it with all of the D3 teams, conferences, regions.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: EnmoreCat on September 19, 2023, 10:57:55 PM
Love your work Paclassic, quiz question, do you get much variation from Massey?  I mean, are there are any major outliers on a strict RPI basis compared to Massey?
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: paclassic89 on September 20, 2023, 01:29:49 PM
There are a lot of outliers early in the season since the RPI ratings I calculate are purely for the current season and don't factor in any preseason power ratings.  Massey uses some historical data which then gets phased out as the season progresses.  By October, my RPI ratings are pretty good and I can usually predict with about 95% accuracy the NCAA regional rankings.  A good example for an outlier would be Williams.  RPI has them at 58th (using games through 9/18).  Massey has them at 3rd.   So, RPI is telling us that they haven't really been tested yet and have played weaker competition (but they're still probably much better than 58th)
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BaboNation on September 21, 2023, 01:56:23 PM
Well I'm as big a Babson fan as they come, but 15???  No way they deserve that.  They did have a good week (3-0), but didn't beat anyone of real consequence (all outside the Massey top 100).  And kudos to the squad for winning those 3 games in 4 days.  Did they really need to squeeze that 19th game into a Sunday?

Gazo is back and while he's not lighting the world on fire, the offense was anemic in his absence.

To really earn a top-20 ranking they should be expected to do no worse than 1-1-1 against Conn College, Amherst, and Tufts, especially since only the Amherst game is on the road; or is it more appropriate to say in the pasture?

Other than those 3 games I'll grudgingly accept a draw somewhere else.  So, 13-3-3 should be expected of a top-20 team, given their remaining schedule.  Nothing less.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: EnmoreCat on September 21, 2023, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: BaboNation on September 21, 2023, 01:56:23 PM
Well I'm as big a Babson fan as they come, but 15???  No way they deserve that.  They did have a good week (3-0), but didn't beat anyone of real consequence (all outside the Massey top 100).  And kudos to the squad for winning those 3 games in 4 days.  Did they really need to squeeze that 19th game into a Sunday?

Gazo is back and while he's not lighting the world on fire, the offense was anemic in his absence.

To really earn a top-20 ranking they should be expected to do no worse than 1-1-1 against Conn College, Amherst, and Tufts, especially since only the Amherst game is on the road; or is it more appropriate to say in the pasture?

Other than those 3 games I'll grudgingly accept a draw somewhere else.  So, 13-3-3 should be expected of a top-20 team, given their remaining schedule.  Nothing less.

I think you are actually referring to the billiards table that is Hitchcock Field.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: BaboNation on September 21, 2023, 02:23:41 PM
Quote from: EnmoreCat on September 21, 2023, 02:08:38 PM
Quote from: BaboNation on September 21, 2023, 01:56:23 PM
Well I'm as big a Babson fan as they come, but 15???  No way they deserve that.  They did have a good week (3-0), but didn't beat anyone of real consequence (all outside the Massey top 100).  And kudos to the squad for winning those 3 games in 4 days.  Did they really need to squeeze that 19th game into a Sunday?

Gazo is back and while he's not lighting the world on fire, the offense was anemic in his absence.

To really earn a top-20 ranking they should be expected to do no worse than 1-1-1 against Conn College, Amherst, and Tufts, especially since only the Amherst game is on the road; or is it more appropriate to say in the pasture?

Other than those 3 games I'll grudgingly accept a draw somewhere else.  So, 13-3-3 should be expected of a top-20 team, given their remaining schedule.  Nothing less.

I think you are actually referring to the billiards table that is Hitchcock Field.

Any chance they'll get around to mowing between now and the match on the 27th?  Lots of rain forecast in the days leading up to the game.  Shouldn't affect the home team either way - Air Amherst.  Much respect.

I give Babson a 1 in a thousand chance to come away victorious.  But the future looks very, very, promising.  In fact I'll make a prediction here and now ... a championship level squad will be practicing at Hartwell-Rogers field (New England's premier natural grass pitch) in the summer of '26;  that team will be one of the FIFA World Cup contenders.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Midwest Fan on September 26, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
Curious, is anyone able to explain how North Central University (not North Central College, #14) is still receiving votes after 3 (bad) losses and a tie? They've seemed to stay in RV throughout the season thus far... fully aware I might be missing something here. And I've seen the noise around taking these rankings with a grain of salt. Still, this one just seems... perplexing.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 26, 2023, 04:16:56 PM
National - Poll 3 - September 26, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    3    7-0-1
2    University of Mary Washington    1    6-1-0
3    Amherst College    7    6-0-1
4    Montclair State University    5    7-0-1
5    University of Chicago    6    5-1-1
6    SUNY Oneonta    12    8-0-0
7    Carleton College    11    9-0-0
8    University of Saint Thomas (Texas)    10    6-0-1
9    University of Mount Union    18    8-0-0
10    Emory University    19    6-1-2
11    Trinity University (Texas)    14    5-0-2
12    University of Rochester    7    5-0-2
13    Lebanon Valley College    20    6-1-0
14    North Central College    22    9-1-0
15    Middlebury College    17    5-0-2
16    Bowdoin College    RV    5-0-2
17    Gustavus Adolphus College    16    3-1-3
18    Babson College    15    5-3-1
19    Widener University    RV    7-0-0
20    SUNY Cortland    24    7-1-1
21    Macalester College    23    6-1-2
22    Muhlenberg College    NR    5-1-1
23    Williams College    2    5-1-1
24    Calvin University    13    7-2-0
25    Franklin & Marshall College    9    5-1-2

Records shown are through games of September 24, 2023

Also receiving votes: North Central University, University of Lynchburg, Texas Lutheran University, John Carroll University, Kean University, Denison University, Rowan University, Emerson College, Christopher Newport University
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on September 26, 2023, 06:28:11 PM
Just one great example of how mechanical the process is here....  Babson at #18 with Conn (who just beat Babson) and Tufts, both with better records, not only not ranked ahead of Babson but not even making the RV category.  They needed to have someone in there from Reg 2.  I guarantee you 95% of coaches do not consider this poll legitimate.  By contrast, the D3soccer.com poll was generally excellent...year after year.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 26, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
Curious, is anyone able to explain how North Central University (not North Central College, #14) is still receiving votes after 3 (bad) losses and a tie? They've seemed to stay in RV throughout the season thus far... fully aware I might be missing something here. And I've seen the noise around taking these rankings with a grain of salt. Still, this one just seems... perplexing.

North Central (IL) is 9-1 on the season and they play in the CCIW DIII.  Should not be perplexing at all.  They do not have 3 losses or a tie.  Check out this team's information.  I believe you are looking at North Central UNIVERSITY in MN not North Central College in IL.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 12:15:24 PM
I am confused by Babson being rank in the Top 25 at 18 with a record of 5-3-1.  Are they saying that no other universities/colleges are better then this team at 18?
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 26, 2023, 06:28:11 PM
Just one great example of how mechanical the process is here....  Babson at #18 with Conn (who just beat Babson) and Tufts, both with better records, not only not ranked ahead of Babson but not even making the RV category.  They needed to have someone in there from Reg 2.  I guarantee you 95% of coaches do not consider this poll legitimate.  By contrast, the D3soccer.com poll was generally excellent...year after year.

It is crazy that the beavers get in the top 25 over schools like Mt Union 8-0 & Texas Lutheran 9-0...I agree with your Reg 2 statement it is just still wrong.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 27, 2023, 12:23:25 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 26, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
Curious, is anyone able to explain how North Central University (not North Central College, #14) is still receiving votes after 3 (bad) losses and a tie? They've seemed to stay in RV throughout the season thus far... fully aware I might be missing something here. And I've seen the noise around taking these rankings with a grain of salt. Still, this one just seems... perplexing.

North Central (IL) is 9-1 on the season and they play in the CCIW DIII.  Should not be perplexing at all.  They do not have 3 losses or a tie.  Check out this team's information.  I believe you are looking at North Central UNIVERSITY in MN not North Central College in IL.

I thought the poster was very clear they were asking about North Central University, which is in the "receiving votes" section, rather than the North Central College you are referring to from the CCIW that the poster indicates is #14.  North Central University is 3-3-1 and it is not ranked in any USC regional ranking, nor has it received votes in any regional ranking as far as I can tell.  Only thing I can think of is that it started out the season 3-0 before going winless in the last four games and someone is keeping them up there and not updating their ballot (which suggests a voting process that is not as mechanical as @PaulNewman described it).
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Midwest Fan on September 27, 2023, 12:25:24 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 26, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
Curious, is anyone able to explain how North Central University (not North Central College, #14) is still receiving votes after 3 (bad) losses and a tie? They've seemed to stay in RV throughout the season thus far... fully aware I might be missing something here. And I've seen the noise around taking these rankings with a grain of salt. Still, this one just seems... perplexing.

North Central (IL) is 9-1 on the season and they play in the CCIW DIII.  Should not be perplexing at all.  They do not have 3 losses or a tie.  Check out this team's information.  I believe you are looking at North Central UNIVERSITY in MN not North Central College in IL.

Thanks, sorry if I wasn't clear. I am looking at and talking about North Central University in MN. If you take a look at the below link, North Central UNIVERSITY has been in the "Also receiving votes" category for the past 3 weeks now. Maybe the first week makes sense, since they started 3-0. But still in RV? That is perplexing, because to me that means they are on the cusp of making the top 25. Which doesn't make sense given their history and recent results that I outlined.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 12:33:26 PM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 27, 2023, 12:25:24 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 26, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
Curious, is anyone able to explain how North Central University (not North Central College, #14) is still receiving votes after 3 (bad) losses and a tie? They've seemed to stay in RV throughout the season thus far... fully aware I might be missing something here. And I've seen the noise around taking these rankings with a grain of salt. Still, this one just seems... perplexing.

North Central (IL) is 9-1 on the season and they play in the CCIW DIII.  Should not be perplexing at all.  They do not have 3 losses or a tie.  Check out this team's information.  I believe you are looking at North Central UNIVERSITY in MN not North Central College in IL.

Thanks, sorry if I wasn't clear. I am looking at and talking about North Central University in MN. If you take a look at the below link, North Central UNIVERSITY has been in the "Also receiving votes" category for the past 3 weeks now. Maybe the first week makes sense, since they started 3-0. But still in RV? That is perplexing, because to me that means they are on the cusp of making the top 25. Which doesn't make sense given their history and recent results that I outlined.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

I got it now thanks.  Not sure other than they need teams from all the regions just to feel good about their poll???
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 27, 2023, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 12:33:26 PM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 27, 2023, 12:25:24 PM
Quote from: Coach Jeff on September 27, 2023, 11:50:21 AM
Quote from: Midwest Fan on September 26, 2023, 04:01:07 PM
Curious, is anyone able to explain how North Central University (not North Central College, #14) is still receiving votes after 3 (bad) losses and a tie? They've seemed to stay in RV throughout the season thus far... fully aware I might be missing something here. And I've seen the noise around taking these rankings with a grain of salt. Still, this one just seems... perplexing.

North Central (IL) is 9-1 on the season and they play in the CCIW DIII.  Should not be perplexing at all.  They do not have 3 losses or a tie.  Check out this team's information.  I believe you are looking at North Central UNIVERSITY in MN not North Central College in IL.

Thanks, sorry if I wasn't clear. I am looking at and talking about North Central University in MN. If you take a look at the below link, North Central UNIVERSITY has been in the "Also receiving votes" category for the past 3 weeks now. Maybe the first week makes sense, since they started 3-0. But still in RV? That is perplexing, because to me that means they are on the cusp of making the top 25. Which doesn't make sense given their history and recent results that I outlined.

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

I got it now thanks.  Not sure other than they need teams from all the regions just to feel good about their poll???

That is actually the process as I understand it, but they already have Carleton, Gustavus Adolphus, and Macalester in this ranking (I think North Central University is in Region IX) and there are 7 other teams in the Region IX regional rankings that would come before North Central University, including two who are receiving votes in the region, if this was strictly about regional representation.  This suggests that, contrary to assertions about the process, there must be some agency to voters in voting within certain parameters.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: PaulNewman on September 27, 2023, 01:02:32 PM
OK, mechanical + sloppiness.  I would be very hesitant to ascribe intentionality.  Is it possible there's a rogue coach/voter on the loose? Sure, I suppose... but that would be a bug rather than a feature.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on September 27, 2023, 01:31:02 PM
Quote from: PaulNewman on September 27, 2023, 01:02:32 PM
OK, mechanical + sloppiness.  I would be very hesitant to ascribe intentionality.  Is it possible there's a rogue coach/voter on the loose? Sure, I suppose... but that would be a bug rather than a feature.

If so, the "receiving votes" section is where you would see it.  It's sort of like when one voter ranked Illinois Wesleyan and Bard first and second in the first D3Soccer.com Board poll of the year.  Difference there is that they dropped out completely in the second ranking of the year, which suggests it was a mistake or placeholder (although both teams arguably had better starts to the season than normal, but probably not #1 and #2 in the country starts), while North Central University has been receiving votes in the national ranking every week. So, just enough ability to vote in a way that screws with the system (intentionally or unintentionally) to give conspiracy theorists room to rail against their team's ranking! 

I should add that I say this as someone who doesn't put stock in or care much about rankings except insofar as they influence who gets in the NCAA tournament.  If we're going to have one, we should be fair about who gets selected.  And on that subject, I'm also probably one of the very few people on this board (and perhaps anywhere in D3) who would be fine if we got rid of D3 national tournaments (and really college national tournaments at all levels) and just focused on conference tournaments only.  The national tournament is what incentivizes schools to travel crazy distances during the season to build up strength-of-schedule and to create crazy conferences just to secure an automatic bid.  And in D3, there isn't even a revenue reason to do it like in D1 football and basketball.  Of course, eliminating national play would really kill traffic on this Board since it does provide a reason for people to follow what's going on in other conferences! 

And if Simple Coach is listening, the national tournament concept is what drives a lot of the craziness in youth soccer too in terms of expenses/travel etc.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Flying Weasel on September 27, 2023, 01:40:45 PM
North Central UNIVERSITY (Minn.) is in Region IX.  They have not appeared in the Region IX rankings (or receiving votes) any week this season.  Thus it is completely inexplicable how they would be listed as receiving votes in the national ranking.

If they were in the same region with North Central COLLEGE (Ill.) and they received votes in the regional rankings, then you could put that down to voter error/mix-up.  But that clearly is not what's happening.  So who knows what's happening, but it really is ridiculous.  Apparently there are some non-D3 soccer fans involved in the process of preparing and publishing the rankings, because otherwise that should/would be easily caught and corrected.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 03, 2023, 01:19:46 PM
National Rankings for Oct 3

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 4 - October 3, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    1    9-0-1
2    University of Mary Washington    2    8-1-0
3    Montclair State University    4    9-0-1
4    SUNY Oneonta    6    9-1-0
5    Emory University    10    7-1-2
6    Lebanon Valley College    13    8-1-0
7    Middlebury College    15    6-0-2
8    Bowdoin College    16    6-0-3
9    Babson College    18    7-3-1
10    University of Chicago    5    6-1-2
11    North Central College    14    10-1-0
12    Widener University    19    9-0-0
13    Carleton College    7    10-1-0
14    University of Mount Union    9    9-1-0
15    SUNY Cortland    20    9-1-1
16    Muhlenberg College    22    7-1-1
17    Calvin University    24    7-2-1
18    Franklin & Marshall College    25    8-1-2
19    Texas Lutheran University    RV    11-0-0
20    Case Western Reserve University    NR    7-1-1
21    Connecticut College    NR    6-0-2
22    Amherst College    3    7-2-1
23    Gustavus Adolphus College    17    2-1-5
24    University of Lynchburg    RV    8-1-0
25    Trinity University (Texas)    11    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of October 1, 2023

Also receiving votes: University of Saint Thomas (Texas), Colorado College, University of Rochester, Kean University, Macalester College, Suffolk University, Tufts University, John Carroll University, Christopher Newport University
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 04, 2023, 05:02:48 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 03, 2023, 01:19:46 PM
National Rankings for Oct 3

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

National - Poll 4 - October 3, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    1    9-0-1
2    University of Mary Washington    2    8-1-0
3    Montclair State University    4    9-0-1
4    SUNY Oneonta    6    9-1-0
5    Emory University    10    7-1-2
6    Lebanon Valley College    13    8-1-0
7    Middlebury College    15    6-0-2
8    Bowdoin College    16    6-0-3
9    Babson College    18    7-3-1
10    University of Chicago    5    6-1-2
11    North Central College    14    10-1-0
12    Widener University    19    9-0-0
13    Carleton College    7    10-1-0
14    University of Mount Union    9    9-1-0
15    SUNY Cortland    20    9-1-1
16    Muhlenberg College    22    7-1-1
17    Calvin University    24    7-2-1
18    Franklin & Marshall College    25    8-1-2
19    Texas Lutheran University    RV    11-0-0
20    Case Western Reserve University    NR    7-1-1
21    Connecticut College    NR    6-0-2
22    Amherst College    3    7-2-1
23    Gustavus Adolphus College    17    2-1-5
24    University of Lynchburg    RV    8-1-0
25    Trinity University (Texas)    11    6-1-2

Records shown are through games of October 1, 2023

Also receiving votes: University of Saint Thomas (Texas), Colorado College, University of Rochester, Kean University, Macalester College, Suffolk University, Tufts University, John Carroll University, Christopher Newport University

By the way, it looks like our "North Central University" voter has disappeared!
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: camosfan on October 04, 2023, 08:25:03 PM
 Is this record correct   "Gustavus Adolphus College    17    2-1-5"
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 04, 2023, 09:14:37 PM
Quote from: camosfan on October 04, 2023, 08:25:03 PM
Is this record correct   "Gustavus Adolphus College    17    2-1-5"

Gustavus' website says 3-2-4, which includes a loss yesterday to Saint Mary's.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: camosfan on October 04, 2023, 09:32:30 PM
Makes you scratch your head about the poll!
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Coach Jeff on October 04, 2023, 11:09:06 PM
Quote from: Kuiper on October 04, 2023, 09:14:37 PM
Quote from: camosfan on October 04, 2023, 08:25:03 PM
Is this record correct   "Gustavus Adolphus College    17    2-1-5"

Gustavus' website says 3-2-4, which includes a loss yesterday to Saint Mary's.

The Gusties are this weeks NC University....Not sure how they vote but they have this one wrong...  :D
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 10, 2023, 04:19:40 PM
National - Poll 5 - October 10, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    1    11-0-1
2    University of Mary Washington    2    9-1-1
3    Emory University    5    8-1-2
3    Middlebury College    7    7-0-3
5    North Central College    11    11-1-1
6    Montclair State University    3    10-1-1
7    Carleton College    13    11-1-0
8    Babson College    9    8-3-2
9    Franklin & Marshall College    18    10-1-2
10    Connecticut College    21    7-0-3
11    SUNY Cortland    15    10-2-1
12    University of Mount Union    14    10-1-1
13    Calvin University    17    9-2-1
14    Kean University    RV    8-0-4
15    SUNY Oneonta    4    10-2-0
16    Texas Lutheran University    19    12-1-0
17    University of Chicago    10    6-2-3
18    Amherst College    22    9-2-2
19    Trinity University (Texas)    25    8-1-2
20    John Carroll University    RV    9-2-1
21    Lebanon Valley College    6    9-1-1
22    Colorado College    RV    7-2-1
23    St. Olaf College    NR    8-3-1
24    Bowdoin College    8    7-1-3
25    Kenyon College    NR    9-3-0

Records shown are through games of October 8, 2023

Also receiving votes: University of Lynchburg, Muhlenberg College, Suffolk University, Christopher Newport University, Macalester College, Tufts University, SUNY New Paltz
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SierraFD3soccer on October 10, 2023, 05:24:28 PM
Interesting as to Lynchburg.  They were ranked last week and then tied Shenandoah (not great), but then tie the No. 2 team MW and drop out of the rankings. Still No. 3 regionally though, same as last week. 
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 17, 2023, 06:36:55 PM
National - Poll 6 - October 17, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    1    13-0-1
2    University of Mary Washington    2    11-1-2
3    Middlebury College    3    9-0-4
4    Carleton College    7    13-1-0
5    Franklin & Marshall College    9    11-1-2
6    North Central College    5    12-1-2
7    Emory University    3    9-1-3
8    Babson College    8    9-3-3
9    Connecticut College    10    9-0-4
10    University of Mount Union    12    12-1-1
11    Montclair State University    6    12-2-1
12    SUNY Cortland    11    11-2-2
13    Calvin University    13    11-2-1
14    Amherst College    18    9-2-2
15    SUNY Oneonta    15    12-2-0
16    John Carroll University    20    11-2-1
17    St. Olaf College    23    10-3-1
18    Pacific Lutheran University    NR    9-1-4
19    Colorado College    22    9-2-1
20    Kean University    14    9-0-5
21    Texas Lutheran University    16    12-2-0
22    Trinity University (Texas)    19    9-1-2
23    Kenyon College    25    11-3-0
24    University of Chicago    17    6-2-4
25    Christopher Newport University    RV    10-1-3

Records shown are through games of October 15, 2023

Also receiving votes: Tufts University, Lebanon Valley College, Muhlenberg College, University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Suffolk University, SUNY New Paltz
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on October 24, 2023, 04:08:43 PM
National - Poll 7 - October 24, 2023
Rank    School    Prev    W-L-T
1    Messiah University    1    15-0-1
2    University of Mary Washington    2    12-1-2
3    Middlebury College    3    10-0-4
4    Franklin & Marshall College    5    13-1-2
5    North Central College    6    14-1-2
6    Emory University    7    11-1-3
7    Connecticut College    9    10-0-4
8    University of Mount Union    10    14-1-1
9    Montclair State University    11    14-2-1
10    SUNY Cortland    12    13-2-2
11    St. Olaf College    17    12-3-1
12    Calvin University    13    13-2-1
13    Babson College    8    10-3-4
14    Carleton College    4    14-1-1
15    Pacific Lutheran University    18    11-1-4
16    Amherst College    14    9-2-3
17    Colorado College    19    11-2-1
18    Kenyon College    23    13-3-0
19    Texas Lutheran University    21    14-2-0
20    College at Brockport    NR    7-2-1
21    Kean University    20    10-0-6
22    SUNY Oneonta    15    12-2-2
23    University of Lynchburg    NR    9-1-1
24    University of Chicago    24    7-2-5
25    Tufts University    RV    9-2-3

Records shown are through games of October 22, 2023

Also receiving votes: University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Ohio Wesleyan University, Bowdoin College, Widener University, Lebanon Valley College, Trinity University (Texas), Christopher Newport University
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: SierraFD3soccer on October 24, 2023, 04:27:52 PM
Lynchburg's record is actually 12-2-2.  Not saying that they should not be ranked, but thought that was odd.
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Newenglander on October 31, 2023, 04:20:18 PM
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

NATIONAL - POLL 8 - OCTOBER 31, 2023
Rank   School   Prev   W-L-T
1   Messiah University   1   17-0-1
2   University of Mary Washington   2   13-1-2
3   Middlebury College   3   12-0-4
4   North Central College   5   15-1-2
5   Montclair State University   9   15-2-1
6   SUNY Cortland   10   13-2-2
7   Connecticut College   7   11-0-5
8   Franklin & Marshall College   4   13-2-2
9   Emory University   6   11-2-3
10   Calvin University   12   14-2-1
11   St. Olaf College   11   13-3-2
12   Carleton College   14   15-1-1
13   Amherst College   16   11-2-3
14   Pacific Lutheran University   15   13-1-4
15   Babson College   13   10-3-6
16   Colorado College   17   13-2-1
17   Kenyon College   18   14-3-0
18   Washington College (Md.)   NR   11-1-5
19   College at Brockport   20   7-2-1
20   Tufts University   25   11-2-3
21   University of Chicago   24   8-2-5
22   University of Mount Union   8   15-2-1
23   SUNY Oneonta   22   13-2-3
24   Kean University   21   11-1-6
25   Otterbein University   NR   12-2-3
Also receiving votes: Trinity University (Texas), University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Christopher Newport University, Texas Lutheran University, Lebanon Valley College, Bowdoin College, Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Washington & Lee University

Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on December 07, 2023, 12:14:41 AM
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

NATIONAL - LAST POLL - DECEMBER 5, 2023
Rank   School   Prev   W-L-T
1   St. Olaf College   11   20-3-3
2   Amherst College   13   16-3-4
3   Washington & Lee University   RV   15-4-6
4   Washington College (Md.)   18   13-3-6
5   Middlebury College   3   14-2-4
6   Colorado College   16   15-3-3
7   University of Chicago   21   11-3-6
8   Connecticut College   7   12-2-6
9   University of Mary Washington   2   18-1-2
10   Tufts University   20   14-4-3
11   Calvin University   10   18-2-2
12   Montclair State University   5   19-2-1
13   SUNY Cortland   6   15-2-2
14   Occidental College   NR   15-3-3
15   Ohio Northern University   NR   13-6-4
16   University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire   NR   13-5-2
17   Franklin & Marshall College   8   14-3-3
18   Messiah University   1   20-1-1
19   Kenyon College   17   16-4-1
20   Emory University   9   12-3-4
21   Carleton College   12   15-3-2
22   Case Western Reserve University   NR   10-3-3
23   Ohio Wesleyan University   NR   13-6-1
24   Johns Hopkins University   NR   13-5-4
25   SUNY Oneonta   23   15-4-3
Records shown are final 2023 records

Also receiving votes: University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Trinity University (Texas), Christopher Newport University, Babson College, North Central College, University of Rochester, Stevens Institute of Technology, Pacific Lutheran University, John Carroll University, Gustavus Adolphus College
Title: Re: USC Rankings
Post by: Kuiper on August 07, 2024, 01:26:20 AM
Preseason rankings are out for men's soccer.  It's just the order of last year's finish

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

Rank   School   Prev   W-L-T
1   St. Olaf College 1 20-3-3
2   Amherst College   2 17-3-4
3   Washington & Lee 3 15-4-6
4   Washington College (Md.) 4   13-3-6
5   Middlebury College   5   14-2-4
6   Colorado College   6   15-3-3
7   University of Chicago   7   11-3-6
8   Connecticut College   8   12-2-6
9   University of Mary Washington   9   18-1-2
10   Tufts University   10   14-4-3
11   Calvin University   11   18-2-2
12   Montclair State University   12   19-2-1
13   SUNY Cortland   13   15-2-2
14   Occidental College   14   15-4-3
15   Ohio Northern University   15   13-6-4
16   University of Wisconsin-Eau Claire   16   13-5-2
17   Franklin & Marshall College   17   14-3-3
18   Messiah University   18   20-1-1
19   Kenyon College   19   16-4-1
20   Emory University   20   12-3-4
21   Carleton College   21   15-3-2
22   Case Western Reserve University   22   10-3-3
23   Ohio Wesleyan University   23   13-6-1
24   Johns Hopkins University   24   13-5-4
25   SUNY Oneonta   25   15-4-3
Records shown are final 2023 records

Also receiving votes: University of Wisconsin-Platteville, Trinity University (Texas), Christopher Newport University, Babson College, North Central College, University of Rochester, Stevens Institute of Technology, Pacific Lutheran University, John Carroll University, Gustavus Adolphus College