Posted in the Big Dance thread - keeping things clean opening a separate discussion for the WC here.
Qatar just too nervous right now making juvenile mistakes. Ecuador needs to continue the press and force more poor decisions. Qatar needs to get to half and regroup
So today's the day. Wales will play a counter-attacking style - probably a 5-3-2. They usually use 3 CB's, forcing the attack to go wide and either break down their wing backs or (futilely) send crosses into their strength.
The monumentally unimpressive friendlies against Japan and Saudi Arabia didn't offer much hope for US fans. We have been far too slow with the ball, especially against a team structured like Wales. I'm guessing we'll have 60+ % possession - which won't bother Wales.
Usually the pundits like to pick one group as the Group of Death. Based on FIFA rankings, with all four teams in group B ranked in the top 20 . . .
Stones and Maguire? Combined they've played about two games in the past month. Dicey.
I'm watching England v. Iran right now
The Iranian "defense" is shambolic. Geez Louise.
Surprised at the Welsh 3-4-3. I like our chances attacking this formation- McKennie and Adams need to dominate the midfield and get us going on quick counters.
Way to snatch a tie from the jaws of victory. 2nd half not good. Stupid Stupid foul with the man's back to the goal.
Where's Reyna??
Generally annoying game — and not just because Bale was playing.
Still, whoever made that tactical foul when Turner came for a walkabout deserves MotM.
So now we have to worry about goal differential. Dumb.
Quote from: blooter442 on November 21, 2022, 04:08:01 PM
Generally annoying game — and not just because Bale was playing.
Still, whoever made that tactical foul when Turner came for a walkabout deserves MotM.
That was Ream - and I commented to my son, a Ream
Hater, that the foul was our best play in the second half!
I hated Caleb Porter's lack of understanding when to sub, just as I hate the previous Crew HC and his lack of understanding when to sub. Ohh - that's Gregg.
At the 60 minute mark, with 5 subs left and the lead: decide to get the second goal or commit to preserve the lead. He did neither. Lots of talent and energy on the bench.
We are justified in feeling we gave up two points
USA first half was pretty impressive and I can tell you right now, Australia can't play anywhere near as good as that. Did think Wales' response tactically after halftime was pretty effective, although the referee seemed to find it harder to book their players. Not a bad start, but teams that progress in these tournaments find ways of winning those games.
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 21, 2022, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 21, 2022, 04:08:01 PM
Generally annoying game — and not just because Bale was playing.
Still, whoever made that tactical foul when Turner came for a walkabout deserves MotM.
That was Ream - and I commented to my son, a Ream
Hater, that the foul was our best play in the second half!
Actually it was Kellyn Acosta who fouled Bale at the 50. But yes, it was our best play because you know Bale was going to score from there.
Quote from: Ejay on November 21, 2022, 07:07:41 PM
Quote from: Domino1195 on November 21, 2022, 04:30:56 PM
Quote from: blooter442 on November 21, 2022, 04:08:01 PM
Generally annoying game — and not just because Bale was playing.
Still, whoever made that tactical foul when Turner came for a walkabout deserves MotM.
That was Ream - and I commented to my son, a Ream
Hater, that the foul was our best play in the second half!
Actually it was Kellyn Acosta who fouled Bale at the 50. But yes, it was our best play because you know Bale was going to score from there.
As also a Liverpool fan and Philadelphia Union fan, I know that Bale would have scored that if not for Acosta's intervention, just like I knew he would convert the PK despite how much I was cheering for Turner to come up huge with the save. In fact, just minutes before the PK, I texted my brothers that we really needed a second goal to Bale-proof the result. On my list of most despised players, Bale is pushing for the top spot.
Such a disappointing result after the opening 45. A second first half goal wouldn't have been undeserved and, as it turned out, was needed. Wales made halftime adjustments and we didn't really have an answer for that. Spent a lot of time (and energy) chasing and unable to keep possession or attack with numbers for much of the second half. Did a little better once the subs got made. Advancement could very well come down to goal difference now, and unfortunately I'm not feeling that good about us doing better against England than Wales does. Glad we get England first, then Iran so we have a better feel for what might be required in that last game.
World Cup just started for real.
David 2 Goliath 1
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 22, 2022, 07:59:22 AM
World Cup just started for real.
David 2 Goliath 1
Wow. That point against Wales looking pretty good now . . .
@enmorecat must be happy! It's a closer game than anyone expected, I would think. 24 minutes left in the 1st half . . .
ETA: Ugh, @enmorecat, huge apologies for jinxing your team.
Quote from: Another Mom on November 22, 2022, 02:26:09 PM
@enmorecat must be happy! It's a closer game than anyone expected, I would think. 24 minutes left in the 1st half . . .
ETA: Ugh, @enmorecat, huge apologies for jinxing your team.
It's okay Another Mom, we had our moment of glory. Mbappe is sooo fast..
France and England are the best I've seen so far. Technical, physical... FAST and very deep.
Which, of course, guarantees nothing in the World Cup... ;)
We saw a preview of this Japanese team during the latest round of friendlies... Not going to say we could've called this result, but it's also not all that shocking. This team is supremely organized and just lethal on the counter. VERY fun to watch.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 23, 2022, 09:54:52 AM
We saw a preview of this Japanese team during the latest round of friendlies... Not going to say we could've called this result, but it's also not all that shocking. This team is supremely organized and just lethal on the counter. VERY fun to watch.
We saw a preview of this in 1904 Russo-Japanese war.
Don't underestimate Japan.
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 23, 2022, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 23, 2022, 09:54:52 AM
We saw a preview of this Japanese team during the latest round of friendlies... Not going to say we could've called this result, but it's also not all that shocking. This team is supremely organized and just lethal on the counter. VERY fun to watch.
We saw a preview of this in 1904 Russo-Japanese war.
Don't underestimate Japan.
@Saint of Old ... Anyone who references the Ruso-Japanese War of 1904 ... deserves the Turkey Leg at my dinner table.
SC.
Quote from: SimpleCoach on November 23, 2022, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 23, 2022, 10:00:31 AM
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 23, 2022, 09:54:52 AM
We saw a preview of this Japanese team during the latest round of friendlies... Not going to say we could've called this result, but it's also not all that shocking. This team is supremely organized and just lethal on the counter. VERY fun to watch.
We saw a preview of this in 1904 Russo-Japanese war.
Don't underestimate Japan.
@Saint of Old ... Anyone who references the Ruso-Japanese War of 1904 ... deserves the Turkey Leg at my dinner table.
SC.
Actually, after reading him write that "we" saw a preview of this in the 1904 Russo-Japanese war, my first thought was "just how
Old is @Saint of Old?"
I know that for a fair few in here, draws are not something that are easily embraced, but having watched USA draw with England this morning, if I were American, I would be feeling pretty proud of what was achieved. Certainly some of the stuff I read/listened to after the Wales games suggested that the US had been a little fortunate and that England would be too powerful, but the reality was that the US played a mature game today, often at high pace and gave England genuine headaches. In truth, the times England looked most dangerous was when a pass out of defence was misplaced and they could counter. As a neutral, it didn't feel like they were really threatening. As an Australian supporter, I felt pretty jealous, we are light years away from that...
As far as morale goes, a draw goes a long way toward giving the men confidence that they can compete at the highest level. As far as tactics go, playing for a draw toward the end of the game was mind-boggling. A draw for the US was equal to a 2-0 loss. Once they realized that there was NO way they were going to lose 3-0 (let's say around the 80th minute or so), they absolutely should have pushed everyone forward as if they were losing 10-0. If they score, they can then sit back. If they get scored on, they can also then sit back. To see them play the ball into the corner on the final free kick instead of sending every single player forward into the box showed an absolute lack of basic math understanding on the part of the coaches. So. Dumb.
Different take on the last play but agree with the math...but their set pieces, particularly the corner kicks, were underwhelming even when Pulisic finally sent some better balls. So why not try something different and give it to Reyna and see if he could do a little magic real quick from the wing. Unfortunately, time ran out and it didn't look good but certainly don't think they wanted to sit on a tie.
Quote from: jfreddys on November 25, 2022, 10:54:44 PM
Different take on the last play but agree with the math...but their set pieces, particularly the corner kicks, were underwhelming even when Pulisic finally sent some better balls. So why not try something different and give it to Reyna and see if he could do a little magic real quick from the wing. Unfortunately, time ran out and it didn't look good but certainly don't think they wanted to sit on a tie.
Couldn't agree more. Set-plays have been terrible so far through two games. I did notice that around the 5th or 6th corner they put Mckennie right behind Maguire and tried to serve it deep so he couldn't back up and head it out. That's the sort of adjustments they need to make. Or, just play it short as you said. We lack the height to be lethal serving it in; play to our strengths and fight for goals via the run of play.
Quote from: NEsoccerfan on November 25, 2022, 11:33:25 PM
Quote from: jfreddys on November 25, 2022, 10:54:44 PM
Different take on the last play but agree with the math...but their set pieces, particularly the corner kicks, were underwhelming even when Pulisic finally sent some better balls. So why not try something different and give it to Reyna and see if he could do a little magic real quick from the wing. Unfortunately, time ran out and it didn't look good but certainly don't think they wanted to sit on a tie.
Couldn't agree more. Set-plays have been terrible so far through two games. I did notice that around the 5th or 6th corner they put Mckennie right behind Maguire and tried to serve it deep so he couldn't back up and head it out. That's the sort of adjustments they need to make. Or, just play it short as you said. We lack the height to be lethal serving it in; play to our strengths and fight for goals via the run of play.
And don't think it will get any easier against Iran as far as set pieces. As you say, expect our goals to come via the run of play and reason why I'd like to see Reyna and Aaronson get the starts Tuesday.
I don't think the casual observer realizes just how outrageous Messi's touch was and how absolutely perfect that shot was. Simply incredible but because it wasn't a side scissor it won't get the attention it deserves. Wow! Goal of the tournament thus far.
Quote from: Ejay on November 26, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
I don't think the casual observer realizes just how outrageous Messi's touch was and how absolutely perfect that shot was. Simply incredible but because it wasn't a side scissor it won't get the attention it deserves. Wow! Goal of the tournament thus far.
Fans want the fantastic, daring acts! :)
Quote from: camosfan on November 27, 2022, 08:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ejay on November 26, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
I don't think the casual observer realizes just how outrageous Messi's touch was and how absolutely perfect that shot was. Simply incredible but because it wasn't a side scissor it won't get the attention it deserves. Wow! Goal of the tournament thus far.
Fans want the fantastic, daring acts! :)
I think for fans of a country that scores, each and every goal is a goal of the tournament. But the Messi and Richarlison goals were both brilliant.
Two games today remind us why we love World Cup football! :)
Those last 15-20 minutes were painful. This U.S. team doesn't scare anyone the rest of this Cup. I've seen youth teams kill the clock more effectively than these pros.
Quote from: blue_jays on November 29, 2022, 04:10:12 PM
Those last 15-20 minutes were painful. This U.S. team doesn't scare anyone the rest of this Cup. I've seen youth teams kill the clock more effectively than these pros.
The first half was good, except we can't score. The second half was.... ugly, panicked, lucky to survive. On to the Netherlands. Going to have to be better if we are going to get anywhere deeper. However, with the youngest team in the tournament, and with the pre-tournament games, they have done better than I expected. Lot of talent, lot of skill, but the struggle to put away chances is brutal.
The goal scoring is a concern, but we just got through without conceding a single goal in the run of play in a group where England finished +7 on goal differential.
The inability to keep possession of the ball in the second half was nerve wracking!
I fear the Dutch.
and I now have a new favorite goal of the tournament. :D
Feels like the Dutch are 2 goal favorites to me. The fact we looked that shaky with bad decision making against Iran (not France, not Germany, Iran) in the second half left a bad taste. But maybe it's just a case of the U.S. not playing well as a favorite, maybe they just need to be the perpetual underdog in order to get their mindset right. (Addendum: Berhalter stinks.)
Brace yourselves the next phase will be much uglier, play not to lose!
Quote from: jfreddys on November 27, 2022, 04:13:27 PM
Quote from: camosfan on November 27, 2022, 08:50:22 AM
Quote from: Ejay on November 26, 2022, 10:04:11 PM
I don't think the casual observer realizes just how outrageous Messi's touch was and how absolutely perfect that shot was. Simply incredible but because it wasn't a side scissor it won't get the attention it deserves. Wow! Goal of the tournament thus far.
Fans want the fantastic, daring acts! :)
I think for fans of a country that scores, each and every goal is a goal of the tournament. But the Messi and Richarlison goals were both brilliant.
Go on Youtube and watch the Aboubakar goal for Cameroon against Serbia.
That was masterful, the best world cup goal since Diego strolled through England in 1986.
The Abaubakar, as the Skill will now be called as sure as the Cryuff got its name from the Dutchman, will be done by many a kid for decades to come.
Today was a great game for the US. Not a perfect game, sometimes not a pretty game. In a tournament of this nature it's very hard to win a game let alone a group stage knockout game. The decision to bring Zimmerman on was brilliance (not a fan of him) but when Iran is bypassing your midfield over and over with long ball after long ball why not put a guy in the back line that can win header's??????? He must have won 10 plus in 15 min! To win games on the big stage carrying that much pressure you have to defend and be comfortable with it. Our boys today did just that! Well done allowing one PK goal in three games. My two cents
Quote from: blue_jays on November 29, 2022, 05:52:27 PM
Feels like the Dutch are 2 goal favorites to me. The fact we looked that shaky with bad decision making against Iran (not France, not Germany, Iran) in the second half left a bad taste. But maybe it's just a case of the U.S. not playing well as a favorite, maybe they just need to be the perpetual underdog in order to get their mindset right. (Addendum: Berhalter stinks.)
The Dutch have not been that impressive. I give the US a decent chance in this one. And disagree that "Berhalter stinks". He's far from perfect, but he certainly does not stink.
Things that folks should give credit to GGG for:
* Tim mf'ing Ream. Dude has been on the outside looking in for what seems like a decade. Too slow, many of the analysts and fans said. Meanwhile is a rock for an EPL side. He has been absolutely lights out this tournament.
* Bringing on Carter-Vickers. Zimmerman was a step slow on a few occasions the first 2 games, gave up a pretty bad penalty in the first. He is also a problem with ball at his feet. ENG clearly targeted him on their press... Every time he touched the ball, someone was right there closing him down and led to a lot nervy situations. CV was outstanding yesterday.
* Starting lineups, formation. We have started all three games in an attacking stance and have looked very dangerous. We had close to 60 percent possession in the first half yesterday.
Some things I would question/gripe about:
* Gio. Not sure what he did to get into the doghouse, but I'm not sure why he's not even coming off the bench sooner. While Pulisic says he's ready to go for Saturday, I doubt it. Need to get Reyna on the pitch.
* Formation, stance in the second halves. Wales was really the most glaring example of GGG not making the proper adjustment. Got way too passive. I think it was fine going into a 442 against ENG in the second half... seemed to kind of put them off for a good bit.
But, yesterday... Going 442 up 1-0 is fine. Slightly more defensive, but still allows you to quick strike on the counter. But going 541 with 15 minutes left (and you know at least 5 in stoppage - turned out to be 9) was just unnecessary. You're just asking for some nonsense at that point and Iran really could've scored at least twice in the final moments.
That said... And I've been critical of GGG in many instances. I'd grade him out at a B+. The belief, grit and determination of this group of young guns is palpable. That is cultural, and it doesn't just happen with the players. It's a deliberate approach and GGG and the rest of the staff should get credit for that.
They had 2 shutouts and only gave up one goal via a PK no less. I would have bet my house before the tournament that we couldn't do that. Kudos!
Not looking good for CONCACAF. U.S. goes through 2nd in group, Canada second team eliminated after the host that had no business hosting, Mexico is eliminated, depending on tie breakers it was on a stoppage time goal by Saudi Arabia, not digging deep enough to find out if they or Poland would have progressed if the score had stayed 2-0. Costa Rica sits at -6 in goal differential, 3 pts, with a game against Germany to go. Japan, Germany, or Costa Rica can all still progress depending on results.
CONCACAF looks weak as usual. And yet, I'm still always happy when Mexico is eliminated.
Quote from: jknezek on November 30, 2022, 04:06:59 PMMexico is eliminated, depending on tie breakers it was on a stoppage time goal by Saudi Arabia, not digging deep enough to find out if they or Poland would have progressed if the score had stayed 2-0.
If both games had stayed 2-0, Mexico and Poland would still have been tied after the first 5 tie-breakers and Mexico would have been eliminated on the basis of the Fair Play (they had more yellow cards than Poland). That's why they needed to push for a third goal (or hope Argentina scored one more). Thing is, after Saudi Arabia scored, a last minute goal by Mexico would have seen them advance ahead of Poland on the basis of the 2nd tie-breaker: goal scored. Wild stuff.
A lot easier to enjoy the craziness today as a neutral than if this had involved the U.S.!!!
I respect Mexico. They have had the regional crown now for quite some time, maybe forever. A strange thing started happening about 6 or so years ago, the US began to have better players and younger players in the national team.
I think Canada came out of no where and surprised people, but this World Cup showed that there is a new king in CONCACAF ...they are young and good. George Weah's son, Pulicic, Mckinney, Musah is incredible, maybe the most underrated player at the World Cup and the Captain is just a straight beast in the 6 position.
Who knows, there might be a generation of Canadians and Mexicans waiting to hit the stage, but these boys will take some beating, atleast in the region.
What was wild to me is that it took so long for the production booth to figure out the tie-break situation.
Landon was funny about it, but you don't want your analyst trying to tally up the 3rd and 4th tiebreaks on the fly like that.
And it's not that difficult, when you're not in the middle of calling the game. Points-->GD-->GS-->Head to Head (pts, gd, gs)-->Fair Play
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 30, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
I respect Mexico. They have had the regional crown now for quite some time, maybe forever. A strange thing started happening about 6 or so years ago, the US began to have better players and younger players in the national team.
I think Canada came out of no where and surprised people, but this World Cup showed that there is a new king in CONCACAF ...they are young and good. George Weah's son, Pulicic, Mckinney, Musah is incredible, maybe the most underrated player at the World Cup and the Captain is just a straight beast in the 6 position.
Who knows, there might be a generation of Canadians and Mexicans waiting to hit the stage, but these boys will take some beating, atleast in the region.
While I respect their overall results, I don't have a lot of time for their antics. And they sure don't respect us, I'll tell you that.
Would've been quite poetic if they'd gone out due to Fair Play.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on November 30, 2022, 04:26:38 PM
Quote from: Saint of Old on November 30, 2022, 04:22:33 PM
I respect Mexico. They have had the regional crown now for quite some time, maybe forever. A strange thing started happening about 6 or so years ago, the US began to have better players and younger players in the national team.
I think Canada came out of no where and surprised people, but this World Cup showed that there is a new king in CONCACAF ...they are young and good. George Weah's son, Pulicic, Mckinney, Musah is incredible, maybe the most underrated player at the World Cup and the Captain is just a straight beast in the 6 position.
Who knows, there might be a generation of Canadians and Mexicans waiting to hit the stage, but these boys will take some beating, atleast in the region.
While I respect their overall results, I don't have a lot of time for their antics. And they sure don't respect us, I'll tell you that.
Would've been quite poetic if they'd gone out due to Fair Play.
Speaking of how they went out, that was great calm on the Saudi finish. Then he ran with the ball and spotted it. They wanted the equalizer. Maybe the 1 team eliminated that really did their countries most proud on the field.
Happy to declare my bias up front, but Leckie's goal for Australia today was one of the best I have seen an Australian score, particularly when you take into account the game and the keeper he beat. His skill in the box was mesmerising.
CONCACAF finishes the group stage:
U.S. 1-0-2, 2 goals scored, 1 conceded ADVANCE
Mexico 1-1-1, 2 goals scored, 3 conceded ELIMINATED (3rd)
Costa Rica 1-2-0, 3 scored, 11 conceded ELIMINATED (4th)
Canada 0-0-3, 2 scored, 7 conceded ELIMINATED (4th)
Total: 3-3-6, 9 scored, 22 conceded
That's... ugly.
The US results looks like Williams!
So... an interesting look at the World Cup by Confederation, along with my grades.
Asia (AFC) A -- 5 qualified, 3 progressed Australia, Japan and South Korea went through, Iran and Saudi Arabia lost (Qatar qualified only as host and clearly had no business being on the field). Japan topped a group with 2 recent Champions, Spain and Germany. South Korea finished second in a credible group behind Portugal but ahead of Uruguay and Ghana, both teams that have advanced in the past. Australia was a surprise to me, as Denmark had to have been favored to progress in that group and instead just fell apart.
CONCACAF D -- 4 qualified, 1 progressed U.S. went through, Mexico, Costa Rica and Canada lost. The less said the better. Costa Rica played one of the worst games of the tournament, Mexico and U.S. don't seem to know what the thing with the net on it is for, and Canada folded under the pressure of their first World Cup in almost 40 years. Good luck to the U.S., but as a region, this was pitiful.
South American (CONMEBOL) B- -- 4 qualified, 2 progressed Brazil, Argentina are through, Ecuador and Uruguay lost. The heavyweights are through, both of them topping their groups, which is more than CONCACAF can claim. But I think Ecuador was a favorite to move on, especially against a Senegal team missing Mane, and Uruguay probably liked their chances to win the group when it was announced or to at least finish second. Going out on goal differential is tough.
Africa (CAF) C+ -- 5 qualified, 2 progressed Senegal and Morocco, Tunisia, Ghana and Cameroon lost. Just on the numbers this isn't pretty. But I'll give Senegal credit for winning without Mane and I think most would be surprised that Morocco won a group with Croatia and Belgium. Cameroon taking an already progressing Brazil for a win is a nice moral victory, but too little too late.
Europe (UEFA) A -- 13 qualified, 8 progressed. The Netherlands, England, France and Portugal all won their groups. Poland, Spain, Croatia, and Switzerland all finished second. Every group had one UEFA qualifier. While Germany and Belgium were both a bit of a surprise to not go through, Poland blocking out Mexico, Croatia sneaking past Belgium, and Switzerland sliding in over Cameroon and Serbia definitely made up for it.
Oceania (OFC) ungraded -- 0 qualified
UEFA and AFC overqualified for the Sweet 16 based on their number of participants. CONCACAF and CAF underqualified. I think CONMEBOL underqualified based on quality. Biggest surprise is how well the AFC did. UEFA is always the biggest bully in the room, so it is less of a surprise how well they did. But they started with fewer than half the teams in the tournament and enter the knockout rounds with half the teams still standing. 2 of the Round of Sixteen games feature 2 UEFA teams, and 2 games don't feature a UEFA team at all. It has almost become the rest of the world versus Europe...
Will be watching the game tomorrow with the American Outlaws Nashville at Tailgate Brewery. Go USA!!!!
Just saying Aboubakar is a legend.
Never seen a referee shake a man's hand in respect before giving him a red.
That goal against Brazil was icing on the cake, the chop and Scoop against Serbia is not just goal of the World cup, but one of the best in World Cup history.
If the US Men's Team played more like Williams, they would have tied.
Dutch are no joke man... they invented total football Louis Van Gaal was coaching Rivaldo at Barcelona in 1998 when Berthalter was doing Keggers in college.
I think of the two teams that lost today, the US got beaten by the better team, but Australia lost to the team with the best player, sometimes that's enough. I did think the build up to the first Dutch goal was super impressive, the amazing confidence they displayed was quite something. I definitely wouldn't be disheartened as a US supporter, that team has the capacity to improve and be better for the experience.
As for Australia, I was pessimistic going in and to win two games was a massive overachievement, but says a lot for the spirit in the squad. We don't have anywhere near the calibre of leagues being played in that the US does, but there is a decent cohort in the sub 22 bracket emerging, so that might have changed by 2026.