See a lot of topics across a lot of the leagues, and didn't seen anything for the Empire 8. I am not from the region where these schools and team compete, but looking to gain some knowledge about the schools and the programs from people that might be in the know.
- Is it a competitive league?
- Is the level of play fairly good, or regional kick and run club kids?
- Coaching - good/bad experiences (try and stay away from baseless rumors! ;))
- Level of education kids have received and post-grad outlooks
Or anything else!
Thanks!
There are worse leagues than the E8 competition wise. Among themselves they are pretty competitive. In recent years they have been down a bit when it comes to the NCAA tournament and out of conference play in terms of wins, but I've seen some teams hang with the top tier of D3 soccer. I am not familiar with the coaching landscape but haven't heard anything negative.
Much different story in terms of academics. Lots of good schools in the league. Naz, SJF, Alfred, Hartwick, Sage, Utica etc are all very strong academically. You're pretty set in terms of post-grad opportunities.
Thanks for the insight and that is good to know ... son is attending SJF next year and playing on the team ... he really liked the coaches and the players on his visits there, but we weren't super familiar with the school or the conference until he showed interest in it. Thanks again!
Pretty sad day for the Empire 8 with Men's soccer conference champion Medaille University announcing it is closing at the end of August
https://www.wivb.com/news/education/colleges-universities-buffalo/medaille-university-to-close-aug-31/ (https://www.wivb.com/news/education/colleges-universities-buffalo/medaille-university-to-close-aug-31/)
QuoteBUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) — Medaille University announced it will be closing this summer, following the termination of its integration deal with Trocaire College last week.
The official last date for the school will be Aug. 31.
Medaille cited "financial instability, declining enrollment, outstanding liabilities, and other challenges that are impacting institutions of higher education across the region, state and nationally" as its reasons for closing.
They will have some decent players scrambling for a place to play next year (particularly Ander Castillo, a forward from Spain who scored 23 goals last year, including 2 against Cortland in the NCAA tournament first round), but for most, their college careers have abruptly ended.
Medaille's HC, Sean Hallas, is a class act and has started a Twitter thread, complete with videos, to help place some of his players with new schools
https://twitter.com/SeanMHallas/status/1658133442507276288?s=20
Just heard this over the weekend, and I am gutted for those kids that need to navigate the next steps. Hopefully they find a home, and the same for that coach that seems to being sticking by his kids.
How does transferring work when most schools have accepted their incoming classes at this point and the deadlines for application have past?
Also, does the E8 have a team to replace them waiting in the wings, or does this just add another non-conf game to the schedule most likely?
Has there been any rumblings on if E8 will replace Medaille in the league at all and where those kids ended up landing?
https://empire8.com/news/2023/8/21/general-suny-brockport-and-suny-geneseo-to-join-empire-8-2024-25-start-date-anticipated.aspx
Looks like 2 SUNY's joining E8 next year. Based on schedules looks like they play many if not all of the existing E8 schools so makes sense from that perspective, but what does this mean for the SUNYAC moving forward ... and maybe there could be some departures from the existing E8 teams to other leagues? From a league strength perspective, Geneseo is typically strong so improves the SoS for the existing teams I would think.
Quote from: Spartan94 on August 22, 2023, 10:58:47 AM
https://empire8.com/news/2023/8/21/general-suny-brockport-and-suny-geneseo-to-join-empire-8-2024-25-start-date-anticipated.aspx
Looks like 2 SUNY's joining E8 next year. Based on schedules looks like they play many if not all of the existing E8 schools so makes sense from that perspective, but what does this mean for the SUNYAC moving forward ... and maybe there could be some departures from the existing E8 teams to other leagues? From a league strength perspective, Geneseo is typically strong so improves the SoS for the existing teams I would think.
Did anyone here where these players ended up. Messiah played them in a spring game at Robert Morris and nothing was said at that time
Will the SUNYAC teams that move be eligible for NCAA play if they win the Empire conference?
That would be a tough pill to swallow for the existing teams.
Quote from: Crossit4fun on September 13, 2023, 12:08:10 PM
Will the SUNYAC teams that move be eligible for NCAA play if they win the Empire conference?
That would be a tough pill to swallow for the existing teams.
yes, of course, they're just changing conferences not re-classifying into D3 (like say, Hartford.)
Quote from: Coach Jeff on September 06, 2023, 12:46:17 PM
Quote from: Spartan94 on August 22, 2023, 10:58:47 AM
https://empire8.com/news/2023/8/21/general-suny-brockport-and-suny-geneseo-to-join-empire-8-2024-25-start-date-anticipated.aspx
Looks like 2 SUNY's joining E8 next year. Based on schedules looks like they play many if not all of the existing E8 schools so makes sense from that perspective, but what does this mean for the SUNYAC moving forward ... and maybe there could be some departures from the existing E8 teams to other leagues? From a league strength perspective, Geneseo is typically strong so improves the SoS for the existing teams I would think.
Did anyone here where these players ended up. Messiah played them in a spring game at Robert Morris and nothing was said at that time
Castillo from medaille ended up playing d1 at university of Albany. Seen he has started some games too and done fairly decent.
Coach Halas is an assistant now at last years d1 national champions Syracuse.
Those are the only places I have seen post about any players going so far. Our local paper the Buffalo news does a real good twitter account for college soccer. Shows highlights and he attends many men's and women's games.
I had played at medaille much earlier in the program for two years. Then was a part of coaching for six ncaa tournaments. Still follow college soccer d3 from afar and do watch some livestream games (not so far this year). Sad to see the college close. Fiscal mismanagement. I'll say that the first year we made the ncaa tournament we didn't even have a practice field. First year I played we had a field on campus. Enrollment went up so put parking and additional dorms after that. Took away the field. College campus was only 13 acres. Is a cemetery behind it so no way to expand.
Here is a list of some (not all) of where Medaille players ended up:
Ander Castillo - Albany (D1)
Bryce Koagel - Le Moyne (D2)
Sean Burke, Charlie Stewart, Dante Gesamondo - Hartwick (D3 - Empire 8)
Joseph Avallone - St. John Fisher (D3 - Empire 8)
Taiwo Afolabi - Russell Sage (D3 - Empire 8)
Rodrigo Perez, Jaime Mendo - Alfred (D3 - Empire 8) --> Alfred also picked up 2 of Coach Hallas' incoming Freshmen - Jesus De La Torre & Juan Jose Menendez Gutierrez
May have missed a few but I am sure that Medaille's opponents saw the quality of some of these guys and were able to give convincing pitches.
The conference looks wide open again with no true favorite like we saw back in the Stevens days (and what it looked like Medaille was building). Any thoughts from anybody on who you think could earn the automatic bid and possibly make some noise in the tournament?
Quote from: Soccer BTN on September 14, 2023, 09:30:42 AM
Here is a list of some (not all) of where Medaille players ended up:
Ander Castillo - Albany (D1)
Bryce Koagel - Le Moyne (D2)
Sean Burke, Charlie Stewart, Dante Gesamondo - Hartwick (D3 - Empire 8)
Joseph Avallone - St. John Fisher (D3 - Empire 8)
Taiwo Afolabi - Russell Sage (D3 - Empire 8)
Rodrigo Perez, Jaime Mendo - Alfred (D3 - Empire 8) --> Alfred also picked up 2 of Coach Hallas' incoming Freshmen - Jesus De La Torre & Juan Jose Menendez Gutierrez
May have missed a few but I am sure that Medaille's opponents saw the quality of some of these guys and were able to give convincing pitches.
The conference looks wide open again with no true favorite like we saw back in the Stevens days (and what it looked like Medaille was building). Any thoughts from anybody on who you think could earn the automatic bid and possibly make some noise in the tournament?
Thanks for the breakdown on where they ended up - I saw that a few of them were on Hartwick and watched a bit of their game with SLU and they appeared to play a bit role in that draw.
I agree it looks wide open with Medaille closing ... SJF, Utica, Nazareth have historically been the best of the rest, but other than Naz it doesn't look like any of them are up to the task for that auto bid. SJF has struggled to create consistent offensive chances, and I don't think much of the non-conference games Utica/Nazareth has played has been much of a challenge for them so it so hard to tell. I think once we get 1-2 E8 games under each teams belt we might have a better idea??
Have followed this conference quite a bit this season in hopes of finding a gem that could make noise in the opening weekend of the NCAA Tournament. Naz was in the driver's seat for the entire season prior to conceding with 2:23 remaining vs. Elmira to drop crucial points. Elmira closed the season out looking like somebody took a baseball bat to a beehive as they exploded for four goals in the first half of their final game to secure the top seed.
Elmira - Their response to going down early away @ Naz and the energy that they came out with vs. Alfred show this team is peaking at the right time. Players seem to fight for HC Lamine Balde - who has turned this program around after missing the conference tournament last season to win their first ever regular season title. Their home field is a nightmare for any opponent to play on. If they wind up hosting the Empire 8 Championship, I encourage anybody who is unfamiliar with this conference to tune in. Torn up grass field, camera right on top of the benches so you can hear everything. Who doesn't love a rugby match to decide who advances to the NCAA Tournament?
Fisher - Got a crucial 3 points against rivals Naz to earn a bye. They keep it pretty clean in the back but don't generate a ton of clear chances in the final third. Biggest thing to keep an eye on - who does the staff trust in net after rotating between both keepers in the final four games of the season? Firm believer that when a Coach thinks that they have two #1s, they really don't have any...
Naz - What happened down the stretch? They were strategic to get a few players their 5th yellow cards early enough so they wouldn't risk being suspended for Elmira/Fisher/E8 tournament, but did the staff think they had the one seed locked up too soon? Luckily they don't have much time to think about it as they turn around tomorrow vs. Alfred. Would love to see another rivalry match (vs. Fisher) to determine who advances to the E8 finals.
Hartwick - HC John Scott (who has stayed with the program during their transition from D1 to D3) has a well organized group. They play the right way and keep games tight. If they do win vs. Utica tomorrow, it will be intriguing to see how their style changes on a beat-up Elmira surface.
Utica - Fell incredibly short of expectations after a runner-up performance in 2022. Have yet to win back-to-back games in 2023, but did enter the 2022 conference tournament on a four-game losing skid and advanced out of the 4v5 game as well. My guess is that they would do well to upset Hartwick but would need PKs to advance past Elmira.
Alfred - Unpredictable team that is hoping to pounce on Naz's recent downturn. They are 1-6-1 in away matches, with their tie coming on September 1st and win coming on September 6th. In their most recent six away games, they have been outscored 5-21. Maybe they can shock Naz and get hot, but don't expect them to be a real threat at earning the AQ.
2023 awards (stats based - would love to hear what others think):
Coach of the Year - Lamine Balde (Elmira)
Player of the Year - Martin Harguindey (Elmira) - 11g (3 gwg), 2a
Rookie of the Year - Gavin Culley (Alfred) - 8g (2 gwg), 1a
Long story short - the AQ is most likely going to get a difficult opening weekend matchup against Cortland or travel to one of the top teams in the country. They would do well to fight & hold on for a chance late into the game, but it will be a tall task for any of these teams. No team from the conference has appeared in the Region III polls throughout the season. The top two seeds combined for a nonconference record of 2-10-3.
Anybody else have insight that they can add heading into the conference tournament?
+ applaud.
Love the recap and analysis. Great to hear what's going on in the less popular conferences. Unfortunately the E8 is simply not strong enough to garner much attention. And you're right about the AQ, whoever makes it into the tournament can likely best hope for a 1-0 win after being outshot 28-2 by a ranked team. But a win is a win :-)
@SoccerBTN, great recap of the year as I too have been following E8, and I think you nailed it. Watched Naz v SJF, and thought Naz carried the play for most of the game and SJF, like most games this year, capitalized on a Naz mistake in the back more than creating chances on their own. Elmira is the story though which you noted, and that field is 100% a huge homefield advantage, and watching it online was a treat like you said, you can hear every word from both benches and players.
Mid week quarterfinal results - Naz lost to Alfred 2-1, and I was pretty surprised by that result to be fair. Alfred has been hard to figure out all year and seem to be a very up and down group looking at the results not only in conference but out. They draw SJF in semi's, and when they met last time, it was a 4-3 shootout with SJF outshooting Alfred 20(11)-5(4), in which Alfred made SJF pay for pretty much every defensive breakdown. Should be a good game in Pittsford but I see SJF coming out of this one ... wondering who is between the pipes as well for SJF as it has been a pure rotation for the last 4-5 games.
Hartwick took down Utica and for my money, I think Hartwick has the best chances to take Elmira out especially given their homefield advantage. Hartwick plays a clean game, and have a similar grass surface at home, that is a bit better than Elmira, but certainly closer to that Elmira surface, which I think prepares them more for that style/pace of a game. They brought in some key players from Medaille, and of the games I have watched they have been the most consistent game in and game out that plays within themselves and to the coaches game plan. Coach Scott really does seem to do a great job with them. Hartwick lost 0-1 at home in the regular season, but I think they get their revenge here.
I am going to go with a Hartwick v SJF E8 final. I think Hartwick takes down Elmira in a tight game, with the grass surface playing less of a deciding factor there, and SJF taking down Alfred in the other semi, playing a lot tighter in the back and creating the same amount of chances they did in the regular season match up.
As far as the AQ, I think you are right on there as well ... drawing a local powerhouse and bowing out in what would hopefully be a hard fought game with a good showing for the conference!
Looks like a rematch of Elmira and SJF for the E8 finals on Saturday ... Elmira hosts on Campus Field where they tied 0-0 with the Cardinals during their regular season matchup.
I did get a chance to watch both semi final matches, and the surface at Elmira seemed really poor. There were more than a few plays in the middle of the field where the ball was rolling nicely and then randomly would pop up or sideways making it hard to play with confidence for any central player. Hartwick had some chances and it was an evenly matched game but I do feel like that field is a difference maker for them .... especially for a team that plays on turf most of the year like SJF. I think SJF's best chances will be to attack from wider spaces where the field appeared to be better ...
What a coaching job by the Elmira staff. First ever Empire 8 championship.
I agree they did a great job this year and really played to their strengths. That field was absolutely a difference maker in the final and throughout the season for certain. They showed a lot of resiliency in the 2nd OT by getting an equalizer to push to PK's. Should be interesting to see how they do in the NCAAs. Another bridesmaid never a bride story for the Cardinals ... will be interesting to see what happens next year with so many Seniors/Grad Students on the roster ...
I fully expect whoever draws Elmira, most likely Cortland or Oneonta, to pump them. On a decent field against a half decent opposition, they get beat by 3-4 goals.
Unfortunately field conditions are an element of the game that is no different than the varying levels of officials that you get from match to match. Both teams have to play with the same circumstances so you have to adjust. I can imagine that Fisher can point to several moments in each of their three E8 draws that could have secured themselves home field advantage and avoided a situation where a poor field could decide the conference.
As for the Final - Fisher must've felt there was no way they could execute the game plan that they implemented for the majority of the season. Switch in shape, 1st or 2nd ball direct, and to be fair they did generate 4-5 very dangerous chances. Finishing continued to haunt them as it has most of the season. A few miscues lead to the Elmira PK in 2OT just moments after scoring what could have been the game winner.
Elmira played the same game that they had played all season. They connected when they could, switched the ball to exploit 2v1s, and pounced on mistakes in the box. Martin Harguindey should have been rewarded as MVP for his two goals and setting the tone with the first PK, but the staff must have wanted to spread the love. Their season continues and while they could have some moments in their first round match, their last nonconference win came on the opening day of the season.
Incredible work by Head Coach Lamine Balde and his staff in his third season at Elmira. They will return almost all of their top players next season (barring transfers) and have earned an opportunity to double down on their success in recruiting as well.
I agree with the field, both teams needed to play on it and adapt to the conditions. My only point I think was Elmira was a bit more accustomed to it, and their play as you mentioned, was tailored to conditions they were used to. I agree that SJF had multiple chances and like the regular season just were not clinical in the final third in order to win this game or others this year.
As far as NCAA prospects go for Elmira, they will most likely play a compact counter attack style and maybe they catch a team on a bad day and make them pay for their 1-2 mistakes in a match. Not likely, but I have seen crazier things happen.
SUNY Poly (2023 North Athletic Conference champions) will be joining the Empire 8 in 2024-2025.
https://empire8.com/news/2023/11/20/general-suny-polytechnic-institute-to-join-empire-8-as-12th-full-member-in-fall-of-2024.aspx (https://empire8.com/news/2023/11/20/general-suny-polytechnic-institute-to-join-empire-8-as-12th-full-member-in-fall-of-2024.aspx)
The conference will now include 12 members:
Alfred
Brockport
Elmira
Geneseo
Hartwick
Houghton
Keuka
Nazareth
Russell Sage
St. John Fisher
SUNY Poly
Utica
Interesting how a conference that once had schools like RIT, Ithaca, and Stevens has been so aggressive to bring in additional schools in recent years (including the recently shut down Medaille). Perhaps being proactive in the event of further departures or bracing for possible school closings?
Mostly about travel.
Will be interesting to see what the fall brings for certain. None of the existing E8 appear to have financial strains from what I have researched (no tuition discount and endowments seem strong based on enrollment and tuition) so I wonder if some of the existing E8 schools move on into other leagues with similar locations and travel expectations.
SUNY Poly is an interesting one for me, since they were in the MAC West Division which was 5 SUNY schools, 2 VT and one in Great Boston ... understanding Eastern Naz and VTSU were longer trips but that doesn't seem too much assuming one was home and the other was away games for each school?
Only other options in the region are United East, AMCC, or SUNYAC ... SUNY would have been a huge jump in competition given the Massey rankings of the leagues ... this will be interesting to see how it unfolds though.
Could wait until after today's game to give some background on the Empire 8 representative, but some interesting notes/stats heading into the reverse fixture of the 2023 E8 championship.
FISHER:
-GK Christian Burkhart currently leads the nation in shutouts (12). Made some game/season altering saves down the stretch, including an incredible double save (from point blank & quickly reacted to punch the ball away from a tap-in) to preserve a 1-0 lead late against Nazareth to secure the top seed. Burkhart also stopped two PKs against Brockport to send the Cardinals to the Championship game.
-Fisher is 8-1-1 since the beginning of October. They rarely concede clear cut chances (3 goals conceded in that stretch) but are inconsistent up front.
-Their hot streak came with 5th year midfielder Matt Gentile (2021 COVID Spring E8 Tournament MVP) in the lineup. Fisher is 7-1 with Gentile & 3-3-5 without him. Important to note that 4/5 games with 2+ goals came with Gentile playing, but he has missed the previous two matches.
-Fisher boasts an experienced lineup and have shifted from their deep rotation late in the season using only 12 field players. With Gentile, they utilized 11 Grads/5th years/Seniors (including GK), 1 Junior, and 1 Sophomore. They have not replaced Gentile other than a defensive substitute late to preserve a lead.
ELMRIA:
-Elmira entered the season with immense uncertainty after winning the E8 title in 2023. They lost 2023 E8 POY/2nd-team All-Region Forward Martin Harguindey, 1st-Team All-E8/3rd-team All-Region defender Kerfalla Toure, and 2023 COY Lamine Balde (who left just weeks prior to the start of the season).
-Similar to 2023, the Soaring Eagles struggled in non-conference play this season going 0-4-2 (compared to 1-6-1 in 2023).
-Elmira lost 0-3 at Fisher in their first E8 game on 9/14. The Soaring Eagles have not won a game at Fisher since 2009.
-Since their loss to Fisher, Elmira has scored in 13/14 games. In nine of those matches, they have scored 2+ goals.
This game will come down to who can stick to their game plan. Fisher played an even match against Brockport and were arguably lucky to not concede a PK with about 15 minutes left in regulation. Brockport took a firm hold of the momentum before Fisher almost finished the game in OT. Elmira overcame a 1-0 deficit vs. Nazareth with two quick goals (less than one minute apart) in the 65th minute and have looked like they have the same belief that lead them to the Empire 8 title last season.
BOTTOM LINE:
It is Fisher's game to lose. Fisher's athleticism will likely be too much for Elmira to handle. They will want to assert themselves early to avoid Elmira believing they can pull off a repeat. If Elmira does get multiple goals, Fisher will need to switch their game plan to earn the result. It is a blessing for anybody who watches that this season's Championship will not be played on a horrid surface like it was last year.
Although they are not deep, Fisher could cause problems for an NCAA Tournament opponent if they are able to continue their shutout streak. With that being said, they have struggled out of conference against average and below-average competition. Regardless of who wins, they will once again play against a top 10 opponent and would do well to keep the match respectable.