How deep does quality soccer go the the conference?
4 teams in any given year are usually good to very good. You can count on W&L and Lynchburg being at least tournament quality just about every year recently. Roanoke is usually bubble or in for Regionally Ranked type teams depending on how the season falls. Then you get a solid to good team or two every season out of some mix of R-MC, H-SC, Va Wes, and Randolph.
I wouldn't say it's the deepest league in D3 by a longshot, but the top half of the conference is usually good competition. Unfortunately the bottom half is usually very bottom half.
Do you have a son playing in the conference?
My son is being recruited by a lot of ODAC schools along with Sewanee.
Gotcha. (As my sons would say). Well if you have any questions about Washington and Lee, I'd be happy to try to answer them. Best of luck with the recruiting journey!
He is going to the August 5 camp at W & L! If it goes well I might hit you up for some questions. Thanks!
Ferrum announced (https://ferrumpanthers.com/news/2024/4/5/general-ferrum-college-set-to-move-to-division-ii-and-join-conference-carolinas.aspx)it is moving to DII and joining the Conference Carolinas starting 2025
Quote"By transitioning to Division 2, Ferrum College aligns itself with a conference whose motto of body, mind and soul aligns with Ferrum College's beliefs and values. At the heart of this historic shift lies our commitment to excellence – on and off the athletic fields, to student success, and to inclusive growth. Building upon our rich heritage and values, we embark on a journey of evolution and adaptation, guided by the relentless pursuit of excellence." said President Martin.
I suspect part of this move is about football, which CC is adding in 2025 and needs schools that have both varsity and JV. Ferrum, however, really needs to recruit in soccer and football to compete in either sport. They hardly were strong in either, finishing 4-12 in soccer last year and 1-9 in the ODAC and was 3-7 in football and 1-6 in the ODAC.
Quote"We are excited about this historic announcement for Conference Carolinas," Commissioner Chris Colvin said. "The ability to be able to align with an institution like Ferrum College that perfectly fits with our conference beliefs and values, while also being a first-class institution with a unique commitment to a strong athletics program, is truly special. Our overall goal in Conference Carolinas is always to continue to make our conference stronger, and Ferrum's addition to our league allows us to accomplish this while also furthering our commitment to football and our three-division model in certain sports. We know they will help us continue to lead the way in the classroom, in the community and at the highest levels of competition as we continue to strive daily to work with our member institutions to help develop champions in body, mind and soul."
The Conference Carolinas currently sponsors 24 sports, acrobatics and tumbling, baseball, women's beach volleyball, softball, men's and women's basketball, bowling, cross country, golf, lacrosse, swimming and diving, soccer, tennis, track & field (indoor and outdoor) volleyball, and wrestling. Ferrum will be eligible for all conference,awards and championships.
"The move to Division 2 athletics reflects Ferrum College's dedication to ensuring a quality overall athletic experience for our students while maintaining our steadfast commitment to academic excellence and integrity," stated Scott Showalter, Chairman of the Board of Trustees of Ferrum College.
In the 2024-25 academic year the CC will be the sole sponsor of 25 sports and offer up to 29 sports with the addition of football in the 2025-26 academic year. They collaborate with the South Atlantic Conference and Great Midwest Athletic Conference to offer four of those sports conference membership. CC is also believed to be the first NCAA conference to offer sub-varsity championships to its members.
I suspect it's as much about differentiation as anything else. Ferrum is not really an outstanding school for anything in SW Va. It's not a bad school, but it has no hook. Kind of like E&H. And with Lynchburg adding football there is even more competition across the board.
E&H pretty much stunk in the ODAC in the end, except for a decent football team. Ferrum doesn't even have that. But there aren't many D2 schools around, whereas there are a plethora of D3. Like E&H, those braggable partial scholarships become a hook all their own, even if they don't really make much of a difference a lot of the time.
Quote from: jknezek on April 05, 2024, 05:17:56 PMI suspect it's as much about differentiation as anything else. Ferrum is not really an outstanding school for anything in SW Va. It's not a bad school, but it has no hook. Kind of like E&H. And with Lynchburg adding football there is even more competition across the board.
E&H pretty much stunk in the ODAC in the end, except for a decent football team. Ferrum doesn't even have that. But there aren't many D2 schools around, whereas there are a plethora of D3. Like E&H, those braggable partial scholarships become a hook all their own, even if they don't really make much of a difference a lot of the time.
Yes. I should have made clear that I was thinking this was about football in terms of the CC's interest in Ferrum, rather than the reverse. The release made it seem like CC was viewing Ferrum as a useful addition both because of football and perhaps because Ferrum has JV football too.
Washington & Lee has posted its 2024 Roster (https://generalssports.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster)
A few observations:
- 33 on the roster, compared with 30 last season
- 8 freshman
- One player returns - M Sandor Franch - who played in '21 and '22, but took off last season
- Notable departures include 3rd Team All Region and NCAA DIII Championship All Tournament Team midfielder Grant McCarty and Team Captain D Evan DiPaula
- Tons of talent returning, including Team Captain, leading scorer, 1st team All Region and 3rd Team USC All-American F Weyimi Agbeyegbe and 1st team All Region GK Will Joseph
Roanoke vs Virginia Wesleyan 3-2. Michael Ramsey had a brace. He has had knee problems since high school but is someone to watch when fit. Another Roanoke player to watch is MF Ryan Pigeon who had go ahead goals against Randolph Macon and Ferrum.
Roanoke could do some post season damage assuming they qualify.
It's going to be a wild ride to the end of the regular season with a bunch of huge games. I think anyone of the top 4 teams, VA Wesleyan, Lynchburg, Roanoke and W&L could still earn hosting rights. Maybe even sneak H-SC in there also though other than the Roanoke game they haven't impressed. That's a big logjam.
And once again W&L struggles to put away a decent team. Blemishes to Catholic (5-5-3), Averett (3-5-5), and Shenandoah (8-5-2) are troublesome this season. Shenandoah (1-1) scored on a PK, but they outshot the Generals 12:9. Averett (2-2) packed the box and got a lucky offside call that kept the score tied, and Catholic (1-2) was an early season struggle.
But if you want to be a contender, these are games good teams win. Shenandoah has a gaudy record, but they really haven't played anyone and they have some bad losses.
Hopefully that was a classic mid-week road trap game as the Generals have to go to Lynchburg Saturday, then home for Roanoke next Wednesday and home for Va Wes next Saturday.
Lynchburg at 5-1-1 in conference tops the board, Va Wes at 5-1 is right behind them with a game in hand, W&L and H-SC at 4-0-2 are the only unbeaten ODAC teams, and Roanoke at 4-2-1 sits in 5th.
The ODAC's ridiculous unbalanced schedule means W&L and H-SC don't play in the regular season, but H-SC has Lynchburg (away) and Va Wes (home) to go.
Just looked at the W&L and Shenandoah goals. Pretty fortunate as to both. W&L definitely has a tough three games in row. Lynchburg, Roanoke and VWU
If anyone watched the Lynchburg W&L game, I am saying right here that my son had the "play" of the match 🤣
He's going to need a few more this week to keep W&L in the mix, but that was a decent road result!
What a battle last night in Lexington! Noke and W&L always seem to come down to the last minute(s) as it did last night. And in true rivalry fashion some controversy with W&L's goal to tie things up.
Glad to hear I wasn't the only person watching last night. Roanoke's defense was very strong.
Well W&L goes 1-0-2 through the Roanoke, Lynchburg, VA Wes stretch. Probably needed 2-0-1 or better to earn home field in the ODAC tournament.
We will see how the ODAC finishes with a huge knot at the top.
The W&L boys played their hearts out in the 2nd half.
There are some huge games in the ODAC this week, but not necessarily for the most common reasons. Yes, Lynchburg, H-SC, W&L and Va Wes all probably need to win to have a hope of claiming home field for the playoffs. But Lynchburg and W&L also desperately need a 10th win for NPI purposes. At 10 wins, you can start dropping wins that hurt your NPI, providing a boost to your score by winning a few games in the ODAC tournament.
For example, a couple more wins would see W&L dropping wins against Guilford and Ferrum from their calculation, boosting their overall score. Same for Lynchburg, who could drop wins against Randolph and Averett.
In the matchup of two contenders, Va Wes has to travel to H-SC, a team that is looking to host the tournament. H-SC has once again feasted on the ODAC's unbalanced schedule. But with losses to Covenant and Lynchburg, this is really their last chance to get a signature win. Best win right now might be Roanoke, a team that currently sits sixth in the ODAC after a hot start.
Va Wes's conference slip up to Roanoke is proving costly, but they hold a quality win over Lynchburg and a few other strong early season results. The loss to W&L last week puts them in a much more precarious position, but a win over H-SC would keep them in the top 4, hosting the first two rounds, and possibly push them to the top depending on other results. A loss could see them passed by Shenandoah and left travelling for round 2.
Lynchburg travels to Shenandoah. Shenandoah was picked to finish 5th in the preseason and they have lived up to expectations so far, sitting fifth in the conference. A win here might get them to top 4 status and hosting the first two rounds of the ODAC. Ties with W&L and Roanoke highlight a schedule that was fairly week, with the exception of a beatdown by RUC and a loss to Dickinson.
Lynchburg sits in the pole position to host the ODAC. Tied on points atop the conference with H-SC, but arguably the easier final game and holding the tie-breaking win over H-SC.
Of the four teams with a legitimate shot to win full hosting rights, W&L has the easiest game, travelling to Randolph-Macon. The YellowJackets have already lost to Va Wes, Lynchburg, H-SC and Roanoke. But the YellowJackets sit 7th in the conference. Normally there would be a push here to make the tournament, but holding the tie-breaker over the 9th team, EMU, makes them mathematically safe. They are fighting for position, and staying ahead of Bridgewater for the final spot, playing for a tie might be enough. Then again, Bridgewater takes on Roanoke starting just after the W&L-R-MC game, and a win for R-MC paired with a Bridgewater win would push the YellowJackets into sixth place.
Should be a fun final set of conference games for the conference leaders. Not too much drama at the bottom of the table, except EMU can pass Bridgewater for that final spot with a win over beleaguered Ferrum and a Bridgewater loss at Roanoke.
Quote from: jknezek on October 28, 2024, 11:19:25 AMThere are some huge games in the ODAC this week, but not necessarily for the most common reasons. Yes, Lynchburg, H-SC, W&L and Va Wes all probably need to win to have a hope of claiming home field for the playoffs. But Lynchburg and W&L also desperately need a 10th win for NPI purposes. At 10 wins, you can start dropping wins that hurt your NPI, providing a boost to your score by winning a few games in the ODAC tournament.
Not proclaiming to be an NPI expert. In fact there probably is no such thing. But I interpret the Adj W/L column a designate for the 10 win minimum. If so all of those teams except H-SC have 10 or more wins in that column presumably due to ties counting as half a win. What I don't understand is Lynchburg and W&L have the same amount of wins and ties (records are 9-2-4 and 9-3-4, respectively) but somehow Lynchburg has 11 wins in the Adjusted W/L column but W&L only has 10? If a team has 11 wins in Adjusted W/L column when do they drop one? Why is this done for W&L already? So many questions.
In any case your point would be valid for the remaining games as opportunities to improve the Quality Win Bonus I guess. Just pointing out it appears most of them already reached the magic 10 mark.
Of course I could be completely wrong about the adjusted W/L column altogether.
Quote from: Freddyfud on October 28, 2024, 12:12:02 PMQuote from: jknezek on October 28, 2024, 11:19:25 AMThere are some huge games in the ODAC this week, but not necessarily for the most common reasons. Yes, Lynchburg, H-SC, W&L and Va Wes all probably need to win to have a hope of claiming home field for the playoffs. But Lynchburg and W&L also desperately need a 10th win for NPI purposes. At 10 wins, you can start dropping wins that hurt your NPI, providing a boost to your score by winning a few games in the ODAC tournament.
Not proclaiming to be an NPI expert. In fact there probably is no such thing. But I interpret the Adj W/L column a designate for the 10 win minimum. If so all of those teams except H-SC have 10 or more wins in that column presumably due to ties counting as half a win. What I don't understand is Lynchburg and W&L have the same amount of wins and ties (records are 9-2-4 and 9-3-4, respectively) but somehow Lynchburg has 11 wins in the Adjusted W/L column but W&L only has 10? If a team has 11 wins in Adjusted W/L column when do they drop one? Why is this done for W&L already? So many questions.
In any case your point would be valid for the remaining games as opportunities to improve the Quality Win Bonus I guess. Just pointing out it appears most of them already reached the magic 10 mark.
Of course I could be completely wrong about the adjusted W/L column altogether.
Honestly, I have no idea. You could be completely right. I thought they needed 10 wins. Either way, more wins means more dropped games at this point, as I suspect all the teams have games at the bottom that will be worse than the final opponent or almost anyone they face in the ODAC tournament. I guess EMU as an 8th seed might be a dropped game if they sneak their way in over Bridgewater.
I'd have to spend a lot more time with the NPI to figure it out, and since it all shifts around until after the last tournament game is played, I find it hard to care too much. Seems to me like if any combination of both W&L, Lynchburg, or Va Wes making the ODAC finals, the ODAC is likely to get 2 teams in.
H-SC would be more of stretch, but a quality win in the second round of the tournament, plus a tie/win over Va Wes Wednesday, might get them in if they miss the AQ. Lot depends on all the other conferences of course.
We will see. It's a whole new world with NPI.
Glad to see I am not alone, on both the confusion and the disinclination to spend the time needed to figure the NPI situation out.
Quote from: Another Mom on October 28, 2024, 03:29:52 PMGlad to see I am not alone, on both the confusion and the disinclination to spend the time needed to figure the NPI situation out.
Nope. Win out and there is no reason to know. But the old system was even less transparent. I don't know if this is better or worse, it will take a few years to sort out. I suspect I'll get interested one of these days and dig in just so I know and because I tend to follow all W&L sports as an alum, not just one as a parent tends to. But for now, I'm hoping for the AQ. They need to take care of R-MC, see how the chips fall, and then dig in for 3 games. That removes all doubt and probably moves them a long way up in the rankings.
As I thought, W&L needed one more win to claim home field. Congratulations to the Hornets. Just for fun:
Preseason Coaches Poll:
Lynchburg
W&L
Va Wes
Roanoke
Shenandoah
H-SC
R-MC
Averett
Bridgewater
EMU
Tournament Seedings:
Lynchburg
W&L
Va Wes
H-SC
Roanoke
Shenandoah
R-MC
EMU
Overperformance belongs to H-SC, up a couple from the prediction but I still think this is as much about the ODAC's unbalanced schedule as anything else. Roanoke and Shenandoah had slightly harder conference schedules and fell just below H-SC.
EMU snuck in over Bridgewater, who I thought was a significantly better team. But EMU held the h2h. EMU tied Lynchburg 0-0 in possibly the Hornet's worst blemish of the season. One of those weird games where Lynchburg had 29 shots, 11 on goal, and couldn't score. EMU had 0 shots. I doubt this one plays out anywhere near the same way.
W&L and R-MC are getting a quick turnaround rematch. This time in Lexington, but that's always interesting and weird things can happen in back 2 backs. W&L needs a couple wins to bring an at-large into possibility, so slipping up in a back 2 back would be devastating.
Va Wes and Shenandoah will be facing off for the first time, again thanks to the ODAC's unbalanced schedule. This could be interesting. Shenandoah put up a huge fight against Lynchburg tonight in a very well-balanced game. Va Wes started the season strong, but I have been less impressed down the stretch. I could see Shenandoah winning this one, but it's an almost 4 hour trip from Shenandoah to Virginia Beach in no traffic, and you never know how that trip will play out.
H-SC and Roanoke. Roanoke is another team I just haven't loved down the stretch. They've gone 1-0-4 in the last 5. H-SC beat them 2-0 in Farmville early in October, but it was a closer game than the score implies. That's probably H-SC's best win on a fairly weak schedule. I don't have much faith in the Tigers and suspect Roanoke will do enough to win this one.
W&L deserved better in that first half. All over R-MC but just couldn't push one in. Several missed opportunities, a couple of clutch saves. 0-0. R-MC really hasn't had anything, but they've been stout when scrambling at the back.
W&L played well.
Well... All the chalk held in the first round despite my thoughts. H-ScC took out Roanoke and VA Wes seemed to cruise over Shenandoah.
W&L couldn't find the net in a game they dominated in the closest contest my score.
My thoughts are Lynchburg will make the field regardless of the game against H-SC. H-SC, however, is playing for their season and probably needs the AQ to make the tournament.
The winner of VA Wes at W&L probably makes the field, regardless of the final. The loser will be on pins and needles and likely out.
A lot will depend on other results of course, but the ODAC looks like a 2 bid league to me. It's possible if H-SC gets the AQ there would be three bids.
It's going to be an interesting ODAC final four. I will admit, I expected Noke to be there over the Tigers.
Quote from: jknezek on November 03, 2024, 08:59:31 AMWell... All the chalk held in the first round despite my thoughts. H-ScC took out Roanoke and VA Wes seemed to cruise over Shenandoah.
W&L couldn't find the net in a game they dominated in the closest contest my score.
My thoughts are Lynchburg will make the field regardless of the game against H-SC. H-SC, however, is playing for their season and probably needs the AQ to make the tournament.
The winner of VA Wes at W&L probably makes the field, regardless of the final. The loser will be on pins and needles and likely out.
A lot will depend on other results of course, but the ODAC looks like a 2 bid league to me. It's possible if H-SC gets the AQ there would be three bids.
It's going to be an interesting ODAC final four. I will admit, I expected Noke to be there over the Tigers.
Definitely as to 2 and a possible 3. According to the NPI and what was said on the NPI board, the 41st ranked which is what VAW is now, but that can obviously change I am guessing. I have no idea as to what the playoffs mean other than it determines the AQ. Also some conferences still had reg. season games this weekend and maybe jump over VAW based on these results. If the person on the NPI is correct, then VAW is a true bubble team.
https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankings/nitty_gritties/39872?utf8=%E2%9C%93&commit=Submit
I wasn't able to watch the game but the stats do not look pretty for W&L. Looks pretty one sided and VA Wes couldn't finish. Pretty much the reverse of the W&L/R-MC game.
Sometimes you need to win those off games, and W&L did. But going to a Lynchburg squad that just dismantled H-SC is going to be a challenge.
Making the finals is probably enough to see W&L into the NCAAs, I think Lynchburg locked down their bid regardless of the ODAC final.
It wasn't one sided :-). Most of Va Wes's shots were not on target, and happened after W&L was up 3-1. W&L led the entire game.
That said we do struggle a bit once we get to the final third.
Quote from: Another Mom on November 07, 2024, 08:55:36 AMIt wasn't one sided :-). Most of Va Wes's shots were not on target, and happened after W&L was up 3-1. W&L led the entire game.
That said we do struggle a bit once we get to the final third.
Like I said, I didn't watch it. But W&L had 3 shots on goal, one of them the PK, and all 3 went in. Only 6 shots total. That is pretty putrid. Va Wes had 22 shots, 8 on goal. W&L scored on the PK in the 27th minute, held the lead until the 52nd minute, took the lead back in the 70th minute for good. 27+18 means half the game was played in a tie. I wouldn't say W&L led the entire game.
I do understand the concept of parking the bus with a lead. Especially the 2 goal lead that only lasted 2 minutes, but those stats don't indicate W&L should have been comfortable doing so. Now the stats don't show TOP and it's possible W&L controlled the clock, and I do see that about 10 of Va Wes's shots came after the score went 3-2, so they pushed hard at the end as they needed to. But sitting back and being peppered is a dangerous place to be with a 1 goal lead in what could easily have been a season-ending elimination game for both teams.
Sadly W&L does not offer a shot chart, so maybe they were all terrible and non-threatening shots.
Regardless, the Generals did what they needed and on to the ODAC Finals again and likely an NCAA birth. A good result for a season that started out pretty rough, with a whole new staff, and still a lot to play for. I said from the beginning they had the talent and that has certainly proven itself out!
Go Generals. Overall it's been a very good Fall. The men's soccer team is doing typically well, the women's soccer and volleyball teams are having a season for the ages, Field Hockey is doing well in a conference with 2 very strong national teams, women's cross country won the ODAC, and the men weren't far behind. The football team is having a very typical year with 2 tough games to go. A chance of finishing 2nd or 3rd in conference and going to a Chesapeake Bowl again is on the table.
Overall, the Generals are up to their usual ODAC leading ways, just what I like to see!
W&L Lynchburg game was really good. I thought W&L played well.
I was stunned Lynchburg did not get the PK call in the second half. However, I think even being tied W&L would have won.
Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on November 09, 2024, 07:37:12 PMW&L Lynchburg game was really good. I thought W&L played well.
I was stunned Lynchburg did not get the PK call in the second half. However, I think even being tied W&L would have won.
The player who made the tackle was very confident he got the ball.
Quote from: Another Mom on November 09, 2024, 09:21:13 PMQuote from: SierraFD3soccer on November 09, 2024, 07:37:12 PMW&L Lynchburg game was really good. I thought W&L played well.
I was stunned Lynchburg did not get the PK call in the second half. However, I think even being tied W&L would have won.
The player who made the tackle was very confident he got the ball.
I get it, but it was from behind and the player went down and imo he was not flopping.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxbqXGZEiHOWTfys0DZge2ZISJEwsWuecH?si=9t9kqnCWaCQf47xW
Very risky tackle but he got it right
Solid job by the ref