Let the discussions begin.
So apparently, Stockton got in over IWU.
Stockton: .630 Winning %/.574 SOS/5-6 vRRO
IWU: .704/.546/5-4
I know the experts were thinking Carthage would sneak into the Regional Rankings, giving IWU two more wins. Maybe they didn't, leaving IWU at 3-4 vRRO?
Having a pod of Calvin v Elmhurst, New Paltz at JCU is ridiculous.
It sucks that conference foes CMS and Cal Lutheran may meet in the 2nd round. I don't know the geographics, but they split St. Thomas and Trinity TX.
3 NESCAC
3 NJAC
3 MIAA
3 SCAC
4 ODAC
4 UAA
4 ARC
1 WIAC
1 CCIW
They split UST and Trinity because there were three SCAC teams and they were obligated to send one out. If Pomona had gotten in, they would've sent one of the SoCal teams out, too.
Seems to me that the Committee made very few changes since they came out with the top 16 2 plus weeks ago.
Rowan moved out (from 14) went from a 4 to like a 5 seed
Washington U moved in, from out to a 2 seed
Everyone else basically stayed the same and in that period a number of them lost some more than 1 game, and stayed the same. Some didn't lose at all and moved down.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2024, 04:22:07 PMThey split UST and Trinity because there were three SCAC teams and they were obligated to send one out. If Pomona had gotten in, they would've sent one of the SoCal teams out, too.
Sure, but why did they put the two SCIAC teams together, but not the two SCAC teams together?
My annual tournament map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1TySuWZ9hWrGeSQf5kO0vZVQhG01NFCg
Some random tournament facts...
Droughts broken:
2018: Claremont–Mudd–Scripps
2016: Catholic, Trinity (CT)
2015: Virginia Wesleyan
2012: Gustavus Adolphus
2009: Carnegie Mellon
2006: Wisconsin Lutheran
Never made it: Geneva, Mary Baldwin, New Paltz, Roger Williams, Trine
First eligible season for the five who'd never made it:
Mary Baldwin 2022
Geneva 2012
Trine 2008
Roger Williams... circa 1986 (unsure exactly when they started declaring for D3 instead of NAIA, but '86 was first year in the CCC)
New Paltz 1975
All records below are for the pool era (2000–present) unless otherwise noted
Breakdown by state:
Pennsylvania 8
New York 7
Virginia 6 (new state record)
Massachusetts 4 (lowest in pool era)
New Jersey 4
Indiana 3 (new state record)
Iowa 3 (new state record)
Texas 3
Eight states with 2 (lowest for Illinois since expansion to 59; ties pool-era low for Ohio and Wisconsin)
Ten states with 1
26 states are represented, tying the most in the pool era (2008).
The ARC (4), MAC Commonwealth (3), MIAA (3), and SCAC (3) set new conference records for bids.
The CCIW has no at-larges for the first time since 2007.
The WIAC has no at-larges for the first time since 2016.
The OAC has no at-larges for the first time since 2017.
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2024, 07:47:21 PMQuote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2024, 04:22:07 PMThey split UST and Trinity because there were three SCAC teams and they were obligated to send one out. If Pomona had gotten in, they would've sent one of the SoCal teams out, too.
Sure, but why did they put the two SCIAC teams together, but not the two SCAC teams together?
They did. Trinity and Centenary are together in the same pod.
John, Carol has the Saturday night game scheduled for 820. Was that their choice or is that NCAA mandated?
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2024, 08:29:33 PMQuote from: Greek Tragedy on February 26, 2024, 07:47:21 PMQuote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2024, 04:22:07 PMThey split UST and Trinity because there were three SCAC teams and they were obligated to send one out. If Pomona had gotten in, they would've sent one of the SoCal teams out, too.
Sure, but why did they put the two SCIAC teams together, but not the two SCAC teams together?
They did. Trinity and Centenary are together in the same pod.
Thanks. My apologies, totally overlooked Centenary being in their conference.
As someone once said-- "TGHIJGSTO"!! Off the NYC! :o ;D 8-)
Join us as we go DEEP into EVERY #d3hoops MBB first round matchup. Who is favored and by how much? We talk about it!
2024 NCAA Tournament First Round Picks and Preview - D3 Datacast - Episode 74
📺: youtu.be/Pk_2cSVT1K8
Quote from: Onward on, John Carroll on February 26, 2024, 09:27:38 PMJohn, Carol has the Saturday night game scheduled for 820. Was that their choice or is that NCAA mandated?
All of these game times are set by the committee intentionally, so we have games tipping off and coming down the stretch constantly. This started a few years ago.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2024, 10:46:44 AMQuote from: Onward on, John Carroll on February 26, 2024, 09:27:38 PMJohn, Carol has the Saturday night game scheduled for 820. Was that their choice or is that NCAA mandated?
All of these game times are set by the committee intentionally, so we have games tipping off and coming down the stretch constantly. This started a few years ago.
Hi Pat, since 3 teams have to travel, why does it seem that the home teams is playing the later game the first day, in each pod. Wouldn't it be fair to have the home team and only 1 team traveling play first, when it would seem that the home team is the favorite anyways?
Thanks
Quote from: D3BBALL on February 27, 2024, 01:25:49 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2024, 10:46:44 AMQuote from: Onward on, John Carroll on February 26, 2024, 09:27:38 PMJohn, Carol has the Saturday night game scheduled for 820. Was that their choice or is that NCAA mandated?
All of these game times are set by the committee intentionally, so we have games tipping off and coming down the stretch constantly. This started a few years ago.
Hi Pat, since 3 teams have to travel, why does it seem that the home teams is playing the later game the first day, in each pod. Wouldn't it be fair to have the home team and only 1 team traveling play first, when it would seem that the home team is the favorite anyways?
Thanks
Nobody in the NCAA Tournament is traveling on game day, so the thought of a game at 5:15 or even 3:30 shouldn't be an issue. Everyone is supposed to be at the site on Thursday for a practice in the game facility.
Home team always plays last, and has for as long as we've been covering this tournament. That is also mandated by the NCAA committee.
In D1 basketball, all but 1 of the national champions since 2002 have had a combined KenPom adjusted offensive and adjusted defensive efficiency that adds up to less than 50, i.e, the 1st ranked offense and the 48th ranked defense, or the 24th ranked offense and the 25th ranked defense.
As I did last year (when 3 of the qualified teams made the Final Four, including Christopher Newport), I took Matt Snyder's rankings and applied the same thing to this year's field---offense is listed first, followed by defense, and then sorted by the total:
1. Hampden-Sydney 2-3-5
2. Randolph-Macon 3-5-8
3. Trinity (CT) 12-2-14
4. Keene St. 10-8-18
5. Guilford 16-6-22
6. Widener 13-19-32
7. John Carroll 25-10-35
Just missing out:
-Oswego St. 11-41-52
-Catholic 8-50-58
Last year 11 teams made the cut and a few more narrowly missed out. This year, the top 7 teams in overall adjusted efficiency are the only 7 that make the cut. I'd feel pretty confident that the national champion will be one of them.
Good stuff, SpringSt7. I think SpringSt7's statistically-based list is pretty solid but I would also add Platteville and maybe CWRU to the list regardless of their ranking on that metric because (a) there is no one from the upper-right bracket listed and (b) regarding Platteville, I will never leave out of the list of contenders a WIAC team with a 24-4 record, even if a relatively down year for the league. Number 2-8 on that list (counting Oswego) are concentrated in two quarters, so getting out of each will be really tough. And I feel like many of the more talented sleepers are also in those brackets - CNU, Williams, Elmhurst, Calvin, Tufts, NYU, Swarthmore, I think any of those teams with big-time pedigrees would have a solid shot at going far in other brackets, but they are stuck in the two loaded quarters where they are going to face extremely difficult match-ups early in the tourney.
As for RMC, I do think a lot depends on whether Jabril Robinson returns to health. RMC struggled without him in the ODAC tourney and they would not be close to second on this list if you take his production away - I doubt they are a contender without him.
When you combine efficiency rankings with bracketing, I think the title favorites look something like this:
1. HSC, 2. Platteville, 3. Trinity, 4. John Carroll, 5. Case Western, 6. Keene, 7. Guilford, 8. Widener, 9. Oswego, 10. Catholic. RMC's spot TBD between 3 and 11, depending on Robinson.
Sure looks like HSC, based on all metrics, is pretty much a lock to the final 4.
Spring really like those stats and the history from D1, does make sense.
The scariest pods appear to be the John Carroll pod with Calvin, & Elmhurst, and the Oswego pod with DeSales & Williams. at least two ranked teams are going home from each of those the first weekend.
Quote from: SpringSt7 on February 27, 2024, 02:22:11 PMIn D1 basketball, all but 1 of the national champions since 2002 have had a combined KenPom adjusted offensive and adjusted defensive efficiency that adds up to less than 50, i.e, the 1st ranked offense and the 48th ranked defense, or the 24th ranked offense and the 25th ranked defense.
As I did last year (when 3 of the qualified teams made the Final Four, including Christopher Newport), I took Matt Snyder's rankings and applied the same thing to this year's field---offense is listed first, followed by defense, and then sorted by the total:
1. Hampden-Sydney 2-3-5
2. Randolph-Macon 3-5-8
3. Trinity (CT) 12-2-14
4. Keene St. 10-8-18
5. Guilford 16-6-22
6. Widener 13-19-32
7. John Carroll 25-10-35
Just missing out:
-Oswego St. 11-41-52
-Catholic 8-50-58
Last year 11 teams made the cut and a few more narrowly missed out. This year, the top 7 teams in overall adjusted efficiency are the only 7 that make the cut. I'd feel pretty confident that the national champion will be one of them.
This is a great KenPom stat. Another one is that no D1 national champion in the KenPom era (since 1999) has had an adjusted defensive efficiency worse than 22nd (Baylor in 2021). However, I am pretty sure that the same cannot be said for D3 champs. It applies to CNU last year, but I don't have the data to see where R-MC ranked in 2022 and where Oshkosh ranked in 2019 (but something makes me think they were worse than 22nd).
Also, it's wild that 3 of the 7 teams on your list are all in the Widener bracket, along with Oswego. IMO that's the deepest bracket of the 4.
Quote from: D3BBALL on February 27, 2024, 03:38:53 PMSure looks like HSC, based on all metrics, is pretty much a lock to the final 4.
Spring really like those stats and the history from D1, does make sense.
On the new D3 Datacast today we took a look at the bracket as a whole in terms of round-by-round odds to advance based on the efficiency ratings. You're right, Hampden-Sydney is an overwhelming favorite to reach the Final Four.
Here is the episode link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWSOLEe-jxo
Not that it matters much, but the D3Hoops bracket has Whitworth listed with an 18-9 record when it's really 19-8.
Go Bucs !
Other than a couple of scares, a largely uneventful and chalky first day. Some decent games for sure but not sure how much there has been to write home about outside of an early buzzer beater, albeit it on a neutral site
I saw Farmingdale over Stevens, Penn St- Harrisburg over Hood, Whitworth over Cal Lutheran, Texas Dallas over Trinity (TX), Whitworth over Cal-Lutheran as upsets; 4 top 25 teams [Elmhurst, DeSales, Cal Lutheran. Trinity (TX)] knocked out the first night.
Quote from: thebear on March 02, 2024, 08:17:41 AMI saw Farmingdale over Stevens, Penn St- Harrisburg over Hood, Whitworth over Cal Lutheran, Texas Dallas over Trinity (TX), Whitworth over Cal-Lutheran as upsets; 4 top 25 teams [Elmhurst, DeSales, Cal Lutheran. Trinity (TX)] knocked out the first night.
Interestingly, computer ratings/rankings do not see Farmingdale's win over Stevens as an upset. D3 Datacast, Massey and D3 Bubble all had Stevens as the underdog in that matchup.
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 01, 2024, 06:07:19 PMNot that it matters much, but the D3Hoops bracket has Whitworth listed with an 18-9 record when it's really 19-8.
Go Bucs !
Did not see this post before we made our updates last night but will get it in tonight.
Quote from: ziggy on March 02, 2024, 11:16:43 AMQuote from: thebear on March 02, 2024, 08:17:41 AMI saw Farmingdale over Stevens, Penn St- Harrisburg over Hood, Whitworth over Cal Lutheran, Texas Dallas over Trinity (TX), Whitworth over Cal-Lutheran as upsets; 4 top 25 teams [Elmhurst, DeSales, Cal Lutheran. Trinity (TX)] knocked out the first night.
Interestingly, computer ratings/rankings do not see Farmingdale's win over Stevens as an upset. D3 Datacast, Massey and D3 Bubble all had Stevens as the underdog in that matchup.
I just looked and D3 Datacast Had Farmingdale at 77 and Stevens at 32. D3 hoops in their poll had Farmingdale at #45 and Stevens as #26 in ORV. I also noticed the NCAA listed Stevens as Home and Farmingdale as Away, which i've been told means the higher seed is the home team in neutral site game. Regardless nice win for Farmingdale.
Quote from: SpringSt7 on February 27, 2024, 02:22:11 PMIn D1 basketball, all but 1 of the national champions since 2002 have had a combined KenPom adjusted offensive and adjusted defensive efficiency that adds up to less than 50, i.e, the 1st ranked offense and the 48th ranked defense, or the 24th ranked offense and the 25th ranked defense.
As I did last year (when 3 of the qualified teams made the Final Four, including Christopher Newport), I took Matt Snyder's rankings and applied the same thing to this year's field---offense is listed first, followed by defense, and then sorted by the total:
1. Hampden-Sydney 2-3-5
2. Randolph-Macon 3-5-8
3. Trinity (CT) 12-2-14
4. Keene St. 10-8-18
5. Guilford 16-6-22
6. Widener 13-19-32
7. John Carroll 25-10-35
Just missing out:
-Oswego St. 11-41-52
-Catholic 8-50-58
Last year 11 teams made the cut and a few more narrowly missed out. This year, the top 7 teams in overall adjusted efficiency are the only 7 that make the cut. I'd feel pretty confident that the national champion will be one of them.
The top 5 sneak through while the 6th and 7th teams head home. Keene St. will play Guilford and Macon could see Trinity in the E8.
Quote from: thebear on March 02, 2024, 05:46:13 PMQuote from: ziggy on March 02, 2024, 11:16:43 AMQuote from: thebear on March 02, 2024, 08:17:41 AMI saw Farmingdale over Stevens, Penn St- Harrisburg over Hood, Whitworth over Cal Lutheran, Texas Dallas over Trinity (TX), Whitworth over Cal-Lutheran as upsets; 4 top 25 teams [Elmhurst, DeSales, Cal Lutheran. Trinity (TX)] knocked out the first night.
Interestingly, computer ratings/rankings do not see Farmingdale's win over Stevens as an upset. D3 Datacast, Massey and D3 Bubble all had Stevens as the underdog in that matchup.
I just looked and D3 Datacast Had Farmingdale at 77 and Stevens at 32. D3 hoops in their poll had Farmingdale at #45 and Stevens as #26 in ORV. I also noticed the NCAA listed Stevens as Home and Farmingdale as Away, which i've been told means the higher seed is the home team in neutral site game. Regardless nice win for Farmingdale.
You had those rankings reversed from the efficiency ratings. You are correct about Top 25 voting and the home/road designation, so it becomes a matter of perspective. The computer rankings were in agreement about Farmingdale being the favorite, however.
There are 14 schools that made both Men and Women tournaments
Catholic: M: 2nd round; W: 2nd round
Chris Newport: M: 3rd round; W: 2nd round
DeSales: M: 1st round; W: 2nd round
Hope: M: 2nd round; W: 3rd round
Marymount: M: 1st round; W: 1st round
NYU: M: 2nd round W: 3rd round
Penn St-Harrisburg: M: 2nd round W: 1st round
SUNY New Paltz: M: 1st round W: 2nd round
Trine: M: 3rd round W: 2nd round
Trinity (CT): M: 3rd round W: 1st round
Trinity (TX): M: 1st round W: 2nd round
WashU: M: 3rd round W: 1st round
Widener: M: 2nd round W: 2nd round
Wisconsin Lutheran: M: 1st round W: 1st round
Men lasted longer for 5 schools (Chris Newport, PSU-Harrisburg, Trine, Trinity (CT), WashU)
Women for 5 schools (DeSales, Hope, NYU, New Paltz, Trinity (TX)),
Same round for 4 schools (Catholic, Marymount, Widener, Wisconsin Lutheran)
Six schools had both win at least one game (Catholic, Chris Newport, Hope, NYU, Trine, Widener)
In case you missed it, here is a link to this week's D3 Datacast: https://youtu.be/55ec9q_CNB8
There was a lot to cover this week!
-Full rundown of the opening weekend
-Efficiency ratings deep-dive into the Sweet 16 matchups
-Overall round-by-round odds to advance for every remaining team
-New slate of five games to pick against the computer line
-Mailbag!
Can't say I'm too bothered seeing another 5th year/grad transfer loaded UAA team bow out early relative to their expectations.
Another UAA blowout. Not one UAA winning a third game despite hearing all year how it's the best conference in the country. All those 5th years and grad transfers along with regional ranking advantages all added up to...not much.
Quote from: stlawus on March 08, 2024, 08:57:01 PMAnother UAA blowout. Not one UAA winning a third game despite hearing all year how it's the best conference in the country. All those 5th years and grad transfers along with regional ranking advantages all added up to...not much.
And that's still an improvement from the utter disaster last year when they had 5 in the tournament, won a total of 2 games and no one played the 2nd weekend.
I try to be a positive person and not be one to drag or disparage, but it gets a bit obnoxious seeing all the conference tribalism which seems to get dialed up even higher when it comes to the UAA. This league has just about every advantage possible in the world of D3 when it comes to recruiting, scheduling, regional rankings and the opportunity to get 5th year players, yet two years in a row they crash out despite all the attention they got throughout the whole season for being the supposed best league in the nation. These teams should be good given the aforementioned advantages, so it baffles me that some have to continuously play the league up as if they are experiencing newfound success after a down era of being underdogs.
One or two games can be explained by typical NCAA tournament variance. But two straight years of disappointment? That's not variance, that's a trend. 2 years in a row with majorly suspect UAA teams getting bids, which coincided with 2 years of a UAA coach being the vice chair and chair of the national committee. 2 years in a row both of those teams losing their first round games and the rest of the league bowing out early as well, along with undeserving UAA teams getting regionally ranked at the expense of deserving teams. The highest level of math I took in college was only calc 3, but I can still work out the equations here.
I'm not defending the the UAA at all. I do think there's an advantage of having conference teams in multiple regions. People have also complained about the perceived advantage of the NESCAC only playing a single round robin. Yawn. It happens every year. Outside of CWRU, what other UAA team took advantage of mass transfers? Honestly, a lot of non-UAA schools can offer student-athletes a 5th/grad/Covid year, from what I understand. What's the definition of "best conference" anyway? Most teams in the tournament? Teams in the Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four? Is it top to bottom? I don't think it's a disappointment to have half the conference's teams that made the tournament make the Sweet 16. Sure, both lost, but so did 48 other teams that didn't make the 2nd weekend. Is the ARC a disappointment? They got 4 teams in and only 1 made the Sweet 16. It sounds like the UAA is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they don't succeed, then they don't deserve their bids. If they do succeed, then it's only because they have an unfair advantage.
Nobody hyped the ARC up as being the best conference in the country. The UAA was. NYU started 3 5th year players who were all transfers, it wasn't just Case. Both of those teams garnered attention as being pre-season favorites to win the national championship. The ARC also doesn't have teams regionally ranked with .600 or lower winning percentages like the UAA did. Chicago was 13-12 and were in the last regional rankings!
Did you see Region 8? Chicago deserved to be ranked there.
Who knew finishing among the last 16 teams in the country was a disappointment or crashing out? Did something change?
I have seen Sweet 16 banners in some gyms, but I guess those should be taken down.
As for the UAA, they have long been among the Top 3-5 leagues, but have always typically had a Top 3-5 and bottom 3-5 with far more distance between the top and bottom teams than what we have seen over the past two seasons.
I am not sure why it is controversial to refer to the UAA as the best leave in Division III. The certainly were top to bottom. But with success comes scrutiny so, good with the bad...
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2024, 10:52:08 PMDid you see Region 8? Chicago deserved to be ranked there.
D3 Datacast (https://d3datacast.com/regional-ranking-data/region-8/) had the top 6 spot on then had Chicago 11th behind Hanover, Transylvania, Carthage, and Fontbonne.
Massey for reference has all 7 ranked teams but flipped 2-3, 4-5, and 6-7 putting Chicago ahead of St Norbert in 6th.
It's really hard to gauge Chicago vs other teams in the region. They have an absolutely awful record (for a regionally ranked team) but an absurd number of RRO and a better SoS than the other teams you might stick ahead of them.
I think the datacast data-based ranking had Chicago ranked 8th after the regular season ended.
I just mean based on how the committee was prioritizing things this year (which is the only metric that matters for Regional Ranking), Chicago was in the right spot. They had big wins and nobody else had super great resumes. I'd also say, given the eye test, they're at least as good, if not better than any of the other teams near the bottom of that ranking.
Do I think it should be done this way? I don't really think regional rankings are worth anything anymore. Teams are essentially competing and being measured nationally. At the very least we need a better metric for evaluating strength of wins.
Congrats to Guilford! That was a tough game. Very tough. And kudos to CNU freshmen, scoring 60% of the Captain's points. This is going to be a very special team going forward.
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2024, 11:04:48 AMI just mean based on how the committee was prioritizing things this year (which is the only metric that matters for Regional Ranking), Chicago was in the right spot. They had big wins and nobody else had super great resumes. I'd also say, given the eye test, they're at least as good, if not better than any of the other teams near the bottom of that ranking.
Do I think it should be done this way? I don't really think regional rankings are worth anything anymore. Teams are essentially competing and being measured nationally. At the very least we need a better metric for evaluating strength of wins.
The CCIW usually has 4 teams in the regional rankings. Obviously the CCIW and the WIAC (region 9) were way down. So maybe Chicago being in the rankings isn't really due to them and their stellar resume.
Trinity, Guilford and Trine are all in the Final Four, along with HSU. The first 3 teams didn't even make the tournament last year.
Calvin, Nebraska Wesleyan and Platteville were in the Elite 8 with CNU. The first 3 teams didn't even make the tournament last year.
So, 6 of the Elite 8 teams didn't make the tournament last year.
Mount Union and Whitewater were in the Final Four last year and didn't make the tournament this year.
Oshkosh, Wheaton IL and Nichols were in the Elite 8 last year and didn't make the tournament this year.
Anyone know when the all-star game is on Saturday?
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 11, 2024, 09:42:59 AMAnyone know when the all-star game is on Saturday?
I think we'll get rosters today, so they'll probably announce the time as well. I would guess 12:30 or 1 - They likely have a hard out at 2:30 for a 4pm Championship game. There's no real halftime for the AS game, so they could get away with a 1pm start, likely.
12:30 it is! Thanks, Pat.
I believe Fort Wayne has 2 more years of hosting the "Final Four." I say this because I think in 2026, the quarter finals and semi finals are being played at Fort Wayne with the Final being held with the D2 and D1 Finals.
What is the submitting process to host the Final Four. It seems like it was forever held in Salem until moving to Fort Wayne. The women's Final Four seems to move more frequently. Does no one want to host?
Also, I realize that the atmosphere at this year's Final was amazing with Trine basically being a home team, Angola just 45 minutes away, resulting in the largest crowd in D3 Final history. But, is there a smaller venue that would be willing to host? The Allen County War Memorial Coliseum can hold up to 13,000 fans. Having the biggest crowd ever only filled the place 1/3 full. I think it's tacky having a big curtain or covering up the upper level or other ways of making the place look smaller. Is there a place/campus that has a gym that holds 5,000 fans? How dead was the place last year when 1,200 fans saw the Final? It just seems overkill to have such a large place host.
Did the bidding process start for 2027 and beyond?
It's always going to come down to $$$ in terms of who the host site is, but it would be nice for other teams to have a chance to bring that type of virtual home game atmosphere by rotating it among regions of the country every few years - if there are arenas that are willing. But that will never happen ...
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2024, 01:17:39 AMThe Allen County War Memorial Coliseum can hold up to 13,000 fans. Having the biggest crowd ever only filled the place 1/3 full. I think it's tacky having a big curtain or covering up the upper level or other ways of making the place look smaller.
Didn't seem 1/3 full and didn't feel tacky in the room.
Bids are in for the 2026-27 and 2027-28 years. We'll know probably by September. However, Fort Wayne did not bid to retain this championship, instead focusing on the D-II Elite Eight and the D-III wrestling championships.
(Salem did not bid either, it was already known.)
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2024, 01:17:39 AMHaving the biggest crowd ever only filled the place 1/3 full. I think it's tacky having a big curtain or covering up the upper level or other ways of making the place look smaller.
Thankfully, that didn't come across on TV at all. Crowd looked and sounded great on the broadcast.
They had to open the upper level curtain on one side for this game and those seats were packed as well.
I'd rather have the ends blocked off than half full. The host and committee seemed to agree that this was a better setup than when Wabash was there and they opened one end. All of the sight lines are better without the ends opened up, for sure.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 17, 2024, 08:03:18 AMIt's always going to come down to $$$ in terms of who the host site is, but it would be nice for other teams to have a chance to bring that type of virtual home game atmosphere by rotating it among regions of the country every few years - if there are arenas that are willing. But that will never happen ...
It sounds good in theory but is unlikely to work all that well in practice. Trine is just so unusually close.
In my mind the best bet is to try to be fairly centrally located in hopes of having a couple fanbases within reasonable driving distance. I believe the centrality of Fort Wayne (at least compared to Salem) was a consideration in them winning the bid and I hope it continues even though we know it will be somewhere other than Fort Wayne starting in 2027. Anywhere along the Indiana-Ohio-Pennsylvania corridor makes a lot of sense to me.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2024, 10:10:25 AMQuote from: Greek Tragedy on March 17, 2024, 01:17:39 AMThe Allen County War Memorial Coliseum can hold up to 13,000 fans. Having the biggest crowd ever only filled the place 1/3 full. I think it's tacky having a big curtain or covering up the upper level or other ways of making the place look smaller.
Didn't seem 1/3 full and didn't feel tacky in the room.
Bids are in for the 2026-27 and 2027-28 years. We'll know probably by September. However, Fort Wayne did not bid to retain this championship, instead focusing on the D-II Elite Eight and the D-III wrestling championships.
(Salem did not bid either, it was already known.)
Fair enough. I was simply going by the attendance and the listed capacity. The side definitely looked full and good for Trine to be so close. However, I think that attendance number is an anomaly, not the norm, as other listed attendances show.
Although I haven't made it to Fort Wayne yet, for various reasons (Covid, family matters, vacation), I do like it being more central. I do plan on making it next year (seems like I always plan to) and definitely the following year where I'll be able to see 4 QF games and 2 semi final games on back to back days. I could see finding a place with a capacity of 3,500-5,000 being the perfect size.
The key would be to find a place that is new and has all the amenities but is also smaller. (I'd say 5K-6K just to be sure.) Salem is that size but wasn't updated enough.
Just looking down the list of indoor arenas with decent geography that aren't too old, in the capacity range we want:
There's an 18 year old hockey arena in Bloomington, Illinois that seats 6-7k. I'm sure Bob would love that!
There's a 16 year old 5900 seat hockey arena in Youngstown, OH.
Austin Peay has a brand new 5500 seat arena in Clarksville, TN - that might be a little too far south, but not terrible.
There's a 4700 seat arena in Leesburg, VA, right near Dulles airport. Not drivable for a lot of the country, but easy access for flights.
I guess if you're going that way, the new arena where the Washington Mystics and the DC G-League team play is only a few years old, in DC, and seats like 4200. But that's probably as small as you want to go. Oshkosh's 3500 seat G-League arena might sell out too quickly if a WIAC team were involved.
The Bulls G-League arena seats like 8000, but that would be convenient for a lot of schools.
I still think the coolest place we could do it is the Palestra in Philadelphia. It seats 8000, but it doesn't feel that big. Super historic, the seats are close to the court. Parking might be an issue, but anyone staying in town could take public transit no problem and there are parking lots, I'm just not sure how affordable they'd be.
All the talk about potential future Final Four spots is difficult because the most important thing is the least visible thing and that is who/where is interested in hosting it. Can only choose from the places that make themselves available to be chosen!