I hesitate to give this a platform that suggests it may actually happen, but there are enough murmurs of it on social media that I think it is a worthy topic for discussion about it and its possible effects on the rest of the NCAA ecosystem, including DIII.
In late October, rumors (https://x.com/ProspectsUsmnt/status/1849972556826112220) started floating around that certain DI schools, frustrated in their attempt to have a fall-spring season, and seeing the coming issues for non-revenue sports under the NCAA going forward in a post-House settlement world where colleges have to pay players, were considering either leaving the NCAA for US Soccer or cooperating with US Soccer on a joint venture that was described as likely "semi-professional."
This weekend, the rumors (https://x.com/ProspectsUsmnt/status/1883353332179497154) started popping up again, with reports that the idea had progressed to the point that USL League One had reportedly offered to include these college teams in its league, with the ACC and Big 10 conference men's soccer teams potentially moving en masse, with other conferences/teams being invited to participate as well.
It seems serious enough that a screenshot (https://bsky.app/profile/chriskessell.bsky.social/post/3lgqcqkcquc2c)was circulated of a pilot program, with different format depending upon how many teams joined
I tend to think the notion of college soccer teams joining and playing in a league under the US Soccer umbrella isn't crazy, especially if the alternative is cutting teams and being subject to some of the restrictions of the House settlement AND if they could generate some revenue of their own by being in USL League One (which doesn't make much money as it is).
If all of DI moved, I'm not sure what NCAA would do with men's soccer. Maybe it would no longer be an NCAA sport or maybe it just wouldn't provide the NCAA tournament subsidies that it does now. Either way, it's interesting to contemplate.
Easy peasy, lemon squeezy!!
IMO, US soccer has been trying to disassociate from educational institutional for years. Think developmental academies. Sasho Cirovski, 4 time NCAA champ coach at Maryland, has been pushing for a spring season for years while trying to make college soccer relevant. https://povichcenter.umd.edu/sasho-cirovski-continues-to-look-towards-the-future/ FYI Shirley Povich was a long, long time WAPO sports reporter and father to Maury.
Also many d1 and some d2/3 play in semi-pro leagues in late spring and summer. So it appears that this is just pushing towards this end goal which I think is great. Also might lead to more Americans to field time. Big maybe.
Sasho used to pride himself as to having a largely US team, but times have changed Check out this - https://dbknews.com/2024/12/08/maryland-mens-soccer-international-recruiting/
US Soccer needs to leave college soccer alone. This is a different world. College soccer should no longer be used to develop professional players. There has been no spring season because it places strain on athletic staffs. I wish people would get it out of their heads that college soccer should be treated the same as everywhere else. It's unique and specific to the US. Our pro players are academy products now. Does that mean someone can't or won't go pro out of college now? Of course not, but that should be secondary to the true mission of college soccer.
Well, this rumor didn't last long. According to Glenn Crooks (https://x.com/GlennCrooks/status/1884026623965684133), it died before it started
QuoteThis was shown w/ several other slides from a representative of US Soccer at the
@UnitedCoaches
convention.
As of last Friday, that US Soccer-NCAA Men's D-1 proposed partnership has perished according to sources.
It's not happening.
That it got to the point of a presentation at the USC Convention is interesting though.
Seems most colleges just want to treat non-rev sports as one big bundle and not even look or consider. Just sad.
Saying if they took mens/womens soccer seriously or looked at it with an open mind, they would consider this at the d1 level or the very least fall/spring seasons.
Seems most colleges just want to treat non-rev sports as one big bundle and not even look or consider. Just sad.
Saying if they took mens/womens soccer seriously or looked at it with an open mind, they would consider this at the d1 level or the very least fall/spring seasons.
College hockey figured out how to remain relevant as feeder to the pro leagues. That did this primarily by dramatically altering (caving, really) on the eligibility rules, allowing young players to test the waters in certain semi-pro leagues while retaining their college years.
That's why see the W. Michigan's and Quinnipiac's of the world with 25 year old dudes on their D line. Those guys tried to take the "fast track" to the pros, it didn't work out, and now they can a) get an education and b) keep their thinning professional career dreams alive.
Some system in D1 soccer that allows for a semi-pro Spring season seems very viable and certainly not out of line with the type of arrangement college hockey worked out.
And where many folks 10-15 years ago would say college hockey was a dead end to an NHL career: 1) that was never really true, it was often skewed by the sheer number of professional and semi-professional players funneled into those leagues to dry up the college rosters. 2) The new eligibility rules have pretty much leveled the playing field. Michigan had 3 of the top 5 draft picks a few years back; this year, the Cap's best prospect (and one of the top draftees) returned for one last year at BC and a gold medal at Juniors.
EDIT: I had to do something and didn't want to leave it there. There are lots of articles showing that number of college players getting drafted/playing in the NHL has increased over the years... Leveling off at around 1/3 to 1/4 of draftees year over year.
Really good article on the possible alliance of US Soccer and NCAA soccer. I encourage you to read the whole thing. I do think there's a legitimate chance something happens give the tenuous positions of non-revenue sports and US Soccer's ability to partner with and help NCAA financially in ways that could affect DIII soccer as well.
Can U.S. Soccer's Support Kick Year-Round College Model into Gear (https://www.sportico.com/leagues/college-sports/2025/us-soccer-college-year-round-pilot-program-1234829400/)?
QuoteThe quarter-century movement to establish year-round men's collegiate soccer has gained new momentum in the past year, with the U.S. Soccer Federation having discussed with the Big Ten and ACC ways to launch a pilot program.
Since mid-2024, the two power conferences have held regular talks with soccer's national governing body about initially inviting 32 schools to participate in a two-semester trial run, seeking to bypass the traditional NCAA legislative process that has halted previous attempts to put the year-round model into play.
QuoteIn the summer of 2024, there was a push to see if the pilot program could get off the ground for the 2025-26 academic year, timed to coincide with the start of the 2026 World Cup in North America. As part of this initiative, a document obtained by Sportico presented a 32-team, four-region structure that included all 15 men's soccer programs from the ACC, all 11 from the Big Ten, as well as West Virginia, Oregon State, San Diego State, South Carolina, Kentucky and UCF.
However, by the end of last year, that ambitious timeline had been put on indefinite hold to allow for, among other things, a clearer understanding of the NCAA's evolving governance structure.
QuoteWhile U.S. Soccer declined to comment on specific inquiries regarding the pilot program, it did point out that it has recently launched several college soccer working groups.
With the organization experiencing notable financial growth in recent years, including hefty contributions from billionaire donors, sources say U.S. Soccer is considering whether to allocate as much as a seven- or eight-figure portion of its annual talent development budget toward college soccer and, more specifically, funding changes to the men's model. Until last year, U.S. Soccer had shown little interest in offering any support for such initiatives, let alone investing millions of dollars to make it happen.
QuoteOther sources speaking with Sportico highlighted a key point of contention beyond U.S. Soccer's financial commitment: whether the proposed model would be better aligned with the structure of FIFA, the sport's global governing body, than the NCAA's. The former could offer greater flexibility and open new revenue streams for participating programs, such as the prospect of schools receiving transfer fees for players who leave to join professional clubs.
Hawley contends it doesn't necessarily have to be an either-or proposition, noting how all NCAA tennis also falls under the dominion of the Intercollegiate Tennis Association.
QuoteWith the 2025-26 pilot program now all but officially off the table, there's time to address some of these issues—though time itself has never been the real problem.
"There are no deadlines," Hawley said. "But I do think the longer runway provides an opportunity to have more [talks] with U.S. Soccer and to enhance the involvement of the NCAA or even other conferences. So I don't think the discussion will be put on pause."
"Sources say U.S. Soccer is considering whether to allocate as much as a seven- or eight-figure portion of its annual talent development budget toward college soccer and, more specifically, funding changes to the men's model".
This is an unbelievably bad idea. This whole idea continues to miss the forest for the trees. College soccer is not the Premier League. It is a niche and unique part of American sporting society. If we're going back to using college soccer to develop players we are royally screwed, no matter if you try to fit a square peg into a round hole by extending the season across 2 semesters to mimic a pro environment. I truly have no idea why so many people in the soccer world want college soccer to be the same as professional leagues. Half of the division I player pool is already comprised of players that were told their professional prospects at their clubs had come to an end. If they end up going pro as a result of their college performance, that's just an added bonus. The goal for college soccer is not to put a player in the pros.
If you want to fund this just so players have a chance to play and the sport doesn't die as a result of the crazy NIL landscape then that is perfectly fine. But we are heading towards serious trouble if the goal is make it a professional development pipeline again.
Quote from: Kuiper on January 27, 2025, 01:36:14 PMI hesitate to give this a platform that suggests it may actually happen, but there are enough murmurs of it on social media that I think it is a worthy topic for discussion about it and its possible effects on the rest of the NCAA ecosystem, including DIII.
In late October, rumors (https://x.com/ProspectsUsmnt/status/1849972556826112220) started floating around that certain DI schools, frustrated in their attempt to have a fall-spring season, and seeing the coming issues for non-revenue sports under the NCAA going forward in a post-House settlement world where colleges have to pay players, were considering either leaving the NCAA for US Soccer or cooperating with US Soccer on a joint venture that was described as likely "semi-professional."
This weekend, the rumors (https://x.com/ProspectsUsmnt/status/1883353332179497154) started popping up again, with reports that the idea had progressed to the point that USL League One had reportedly offered to include these college teams in its league, with the ACC and Big 10 conference men's soccer teams potentially moving en masse, with other conferences/teams being invited to participate as well.
It seems serious enough that a screenshot (https://bsky.app/profile/chriskessell.bsky.social/post/3lgqcqkcquc2c)was circulated of a pilot program, with different format depending upon how many teams joined
I tend to think the notion of college soccer teams joining and playing in a league under the US Soccer umbrella isn't crazy, especially if the alternative is cutting teams and being subject to some of the restrictions of the House settlement AND if they could generate some revenue of their own by being in USL League One (which doesn't make much money as it is).
If all of DI moved, I'm not sure what NCAA would do with men's soccer. Maybe it would no longer be an NCAA sport or maybe it just wouldn't provide the NCAA tournament subsidies that it does now. Either way, it's interesting to contemplate.
Great points. So just leave it alone? A compressed injury prone schedule filled with more and more int'l players. The int'l players will not be changed and will probably only get bigger which is fine. We've already discussed the injury aspect of play 18 plus games in 2.5 months or so. Lacrosse does not do this. Why soccer? If 2.5 months, maybe only 12 games or less?
Why not just get rid of college soccer along with all other sports other than football and basketball which are clear minor league sports? Make them club and intramural. Could reduce the cost of college especially colleges struggling financially (see Montclair State with lacrosse and other colleges cutting programs)?
I believe we are the only country in the world who put together education and sports (high school as well). NIL is making it much more sports than education, but not so much non revenue sports.
I say give it a chance at D1 level. Might lead to better soccer with some players getting futures though 22 is old for starting a pro career. Who knows? Right now, imo, we don't know what we don't know.
Tom Farrey, a former ESPN writer and the Founder and Executive Director of Aspen Institute's Sports and Society Program, advocating 2-semester college soccer "at all levels"
https://x.com/TomFarrey/status/1894255443700007227
QuoteCollege soccer needs to be 2-semester sport at all levels.
The 3-month season may work better academically — maybe — but it's terrible on bodies.
My eldest son played D3 where they stupidly play two games a weekend. Left early with all sorts of injuries — ACL, ankle, groin, etc.
Let's see what US Soccer can do at D1.
BTW: His son played at Babson.
Yes, God forbid you should do something that will "work better academically" in college.
(/s for anyone having any doubts)
Another piece about this issue, making the broader point that non-revenue sports might be better off being governed by their national sports federations rather than the NCAA if the latter is focused almost exclusively on football and basketball
https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/here-s-what-i-ve-learned-about-us-soccer-s-proposals-for-college-soccer
It's behind a paywall, but here is the post with an image of the main thesis
https://x.com/MattBrownEP/status/1894386473614413924
Here's a quote from the piece that gives you another taste of the article (albeit one that is probably overly optimistic about what US Soccer can accomplish)
https://x.com/HistoryRunner/status/1894422734668468599
"But what if there was another way to pay for new expenses? Perhaps a completely different way to run a soccer championship, to build a league schedule completely centered on the needs of *soccer*, and to monetize the entire operation?
US Soccer is pitching exactly that."
Quote from: Kuiper on February 25, 2025, 11:02:28 AMAnother piece about this issue, making the broader point that non-revenue sports might be better off being governed by their national sports federations rather than the NCAA if the latter is focused almost exclusively on football and basketball
https://www.extrapointsmb.com/p/here-s-what-i-ve-learned-about-us-soccer-s-proposals-for-college-soccer
Here's what I've learned about US Soccer's proposals for college soccer
Is it a takeover? A hybrid? A pathway forward or another empty PDF? I asked around to find out.
Author
Matt Brown
February 25, 2025
Good morning, and thanks for your continued support of Extra Points.
In the eyes of many coaches, D-I college soccer has one major problem. The schedule.
The men's season begins in late August and builds into November, with teams regularly playing multiple matches a week. The championship is awarded in mid-December. No other major professional or high-end developmental league plays such a compressed schedule. To provide better athlete health outcomes and to ideally create a better championship, many college coaches have advocated for a split-season model, one where teams would play in the Fall and Spring.
This idea has many supporters, but it isn't so simple to pull off. Most college soccer programs don't have their own dedicated facilities, and moving to a year-round schedule could put them in conflict with lacrosse teams or other sports. Even beyond facilities, the staffers that support soccer programs, from sports information directors to trainers to operation managers, are often supporting other programs in the Spring.
So moving to a year-round play, to say nothing of the potential broadcast window complications or academic calendar fit, can be very expensive. While a vote to move towards what was then called the "21st Century Model" was close to happening before COVID-19, the global pandemic and various changes to college sports financial model have slowed momentum.
But what if there was another way to pay for those new expenses? Perhaps a completely different way to run a soccer championship, to build a league schedule that was completely centered on the needs of soccer, and to monetize the entire operation?
US Soccer is pitching exactly that. Originally reported by Sportico, Extra Points has obtained decks from various presentations the US Soccer Federation has made to college coaches and other stakeholders to reform how college soccer operates...or at least, for some schools.
After reviewing these proposals and talking to various coaches, sport administrators, athletic directors and industry experts over the last few weeks, here's what I've learned:
On December 17th, representatives from US Soccer gave the following presentation to coaches at the United Soccer Coaches Convention in Chicago. The deck centered on how US Soccer could help support college soccer in moving to a split-season format, while also providing financial and structural resources to grow revenues and make the sport more sustainable.
While the proposal pointed out multiple times that U.S. Soccer would eventually want to support "all of college soccer across the men's and women's game", the organization proposed a "pilot program" centered around schools from the largest conferences.
I'm curious how this would look in the colder regions of the US, especially at the D3 level. I'm in MN, and you generally can't play outdoor soccer from December-March here. Even April can be iffy some years. There are full-size domed fields available, but there are only a couple I know of (Augsburg and St. John's) that is owned and run by a D3 school. The rest of the schools in MN would have to find a way to rent space in a dome which is typically $300-$500/hr for a full field. Not to mention that many of these domes already have very high demand between youth club sports and community activities. The cost alone would be pretty prohibitive for a lot of these D3 schools that are already spreading their athletic budgets pretty thin.
Quote from: mngopher on February 27, 2025, 12:28:12 PMI'm curious how this would look in the colder regions of the US, especially at the D3 level. I'm in MN, and you generally can't play outdoor soccer from December-March here. Even April can be iffy some years. There are full-size domed fields available, but there are only a couple I know of (Augsburg and St. John's) that is owned and run by a D3 school. The rest of the schools in MN would have to find a way to rent space in a dome which is typically $300-$500/hr for a full field. Not to mention that many of these domes already have very high demand between youth club sports and community activities. The cost alone would be pretty prohibitive for a lot of these D3 schools that are already spreading their athletic budgets pretty thin.
Not sure that this would extend to D3, which I am pretty sure it won't. D1 has previously proposed for D1 was playing half a season in the fall with one game or so a week and then the rest of the season in the spring with d1 playoffs in the spring. This is old. https://povichcenter.umd.edu/sasho-cirovski-continues-to-look-towards-the-future/
US Soccer's Next Gen College Soccer Committee has released its white paper (https://www.ussoccer.com/collegesoccer) with recommendations for reforming DI college soccer.
Nothing on DIII, which some had suggested would be part of the larger recommendations, but the committee did provide this statement about applying some recommendations to all divisions:
QuoteWhile the focus of the Committee's scope was Division I soccer, we believe that many of these recommendations can be adapted for the benefit of the tens of thousands of additional men's and women's players who compete in other college leagues/divisions.
The major specific recommendation is that men's college soccer adopt a regionalized, two-tier competitive structure and a full academic year calendar and some opportunities for promotion-relegation between tiers (sounds like I-A and I-AA from the old football classifications).
A couple of specific recommendations (or recommendations for more study) that caught my eye and how they could possibly apply in DIII:
College soccer eligibility rules should be modernized to reflect today's environment and build more
integrated pathways with domestic professional leagues.
They suggest the possibility of permitting players who have signed rights agreements with pro teams or had gone the professional route to restart in college after their careers have stalled. I don't think many of these types of players are going to end up in DIII (although you never know, especially after injury or a change in their academic or career aspirations), but any increase in DI eligibility would reduce roster options for graduating high school players, which might increase the pool of players interested in DIII.
Participation by players over the age of 23 should be scrutinized, while international
participation should be supported They justify that in terms of the U23 classification for international tournaments such as the Olympics and also suggest the possibility of capping overage players or allowing limited exceptions for injuries etc. I don't know that this is a significant issue in DIII (Emory's 24 year-old Ignacio Cubeddu aside) or one that DIII schools would want to restrict, but, as with the eligibility rules for former pro players, anything that restricts the pool at DI could mean those players look elsewhere, like DII or DIII.
This just seems like endless competing interests. US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems. One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though. The students.
Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today? All while knowing they will earn a degree?
Quote from: Freddyfud on October 16, 2025, 04:04:31 PMThis just seems like endless competing interests. US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems. One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though. The students.
Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today? All while knowing they will earn a degree?
Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......
Quote from: Newenglander on October 17, 2025, 09:38:16 AMQuote from: Freddyfud on October 16, 2025, 04:04:31 PMThis just seems like endless competing interests. US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems. One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though. The students.
Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today? All while knowing they will earn a degree?
Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......
Most clubs are done over summer unless they are in playoffs. USL2 and s definitely the route to go- my son played on a USL2 last summer as a rising HS senior so most D1, 2 and 3 players should be able to find spots relatively easily.
Quote from: VASoccerDad on October 17, 2025, 10:03:01 AMQuote from: Newenglander on October 17, 2025, 09:38:16 AMQuote from: Freddyfud on October 16, 2025, 04:04:31 PMThis just seems like endless competing interests. US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems. One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though. The students.
Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today? All while knowing they will earn a degree?
Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......
Most clubs are done over summer unless they are in playoffs. USL2 and s definitely the route to go- my son played on a USL2 last summer as a rising HS senior so most D1, 2 and 3 players should be able to find spots relatively easily.
maybe regional but USL2 rosters and playing time vs USLA and USL2 reserve teams are completely different things in the NY/NJ area.....
Many regional youth clubs have USL2 teams featuring college players from all divisions at least on the men's side. Last summer was a reunion for my son. Finished spring training sessions, studied for finals, came home and rolled right into USL2 playing with his youth mates. College players can also find summer time with UPSL and possibly NPSL clubs which are expanding every year.
This is not the model laid out in the NextGen College Soccer Committee whitepaper above. I'm still not wading into that argument (but again find it interesting as I take a closer look at the representation or lack thereof on that committee.) My point was as these authorities meet to decide what is best for the student athletes many are figuring out what they want and can do on their own.
Quote from: Newenglander on October 17, 2025, 10:45:27 AMQuote from: VASoccerDad on October 17, 2025, 10:03:01 AMQuote from: Newenglander on October 17, 2025, 09:38:16 AMQuote from: Freddyfud on October 16, 2025, 04:04:31 PMThis just seems like endless competing interests. US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems. One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though. The students.
Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today? All while knowing they will earn a degree?
Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......
Most clubs are done over summer unless they are in playoffs. USL2 and s definitely the route to go- my son played on a USL2 last summer as a rising HS senior so most D1, 2 and 3 players should be able to find spots relatively easily.
maybe regional but USL2 rosters and playing time vs USLA and USL2 reserve teams are completely different things in the NY/NJ area.....
Everything is different in the NY/NJ area. But I hear you.
Quote from: Freddyfud on October 16, 2025, 04:04:31 PMThis just seems like endless competing interests. US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems. One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though. The students.
Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today? All while knowing they will earn a degree?
There are different issues being conflated in the White Paper. I think the injury risks associated with too many games in a short period and the academic issues and financial burden associated with long travel are all pretty well accepted (although a long bus ride can be worse from a student's standpoint than a flight that travels a farther distance). You can mitigate those things, however, with more local/regional conferences and a season that's just a little longer. D3 soccer would probably be a lot more humane and manageable if it were just a week or two longer to remove a few mid-week games and perhaps allowed more than 1 game day in the Spring. On the other hand, mid-week non-conference games against weaker opponents are the only way some D3 players get playing time given the bigger rosters. Coaches could reduce injuries and improve development if they played more of their rosters.
Having a year-long season with a two month break in-between serves different interests entirely. That's the part that is really serving the interest of professional leagues in getting colleges to provide a free U23 minor league, which could eventually replace the more costly MLS Next Pro league and relieve NWSL/USL from starting a similar league on the women's side. That might be great for some current DI players, but I bet a lot of players who signed with MLSNP teams instead of going to college would be unhappy. They have no interest in having to go to school and they would rather play soccer/get paid instead.
Hmmmm. It so weird to hear this as some US centric plan. D1 is a foreign players league now and getting more and more so (or at least the more successful teams). Guessing that the women's D1 will also get more like the men's as the women's game overseas in now trending towards more elite outpacing the US developing players.
For instance, U of Maryland men's has 13 of its 30 players from overseas though Sasho has tried to stem this for years. Seems that German is the main language of the starters and many of its subs who get most of the play. All fine, but, with this trend in many of the top teams, we will most likely not develop major US players playing and gaining experience in D1. Coaches will just continue the trend.
Marshall only has 2 Americans on its roster so 26 int'l players who come for 2 or 3 years. Some graduate, but many do not. Been like this for years and many colleges are copying its plan. Funny part that Marshall actually has ID camps.
So what I am trying to say is - it just sounds silly US Soccer being involved. As I have said before and believe, Sasho's twin season D1 plan is a great one (reducing injuries while playing big boy soccer more in line with what the rest of the world plays). He proposed this over 10 years now if I am correct.
We have a similar issue in Australia, it's called lack of a pyramid, which is what all of Europe has. For sports like basketball and football, colleges do the development work for NBA and NFL. Certainly for the latter, apart from the occasional punter who comes from Australia, the pool of available players is clearly identified. I haven't seen it updated, but the last time I saw it, the average lifespan of a college player drafted to the MLS is like one season. That doesn't mean they aren't good players, but there is just too big a gap to make up quickly. I am sure MLS would like to pick up more domestic players, but they are already cherry picking a fair few of the best it seems and I would suggest that whilst those might be missing out on an education, they are getting a better soccer education. If MLS clubs don't think enough good players are coming through, perhaps they should be thinking more like clubs in Europe than like NBA & NFL franchises and getting more involved in player development earlier. That could work within the college system, but may well work better outside of it.
For what it's worth, my view has changed on this, originally, I liked the idea of being a student-athlete where there is opportunity to potentially progress on the athletic side. Now, I think, that it makes more sense to use your playing ability to help leverage you into a better academic college. I'm D3 all the way...
These people keep missing the forest for the trees. College soccer stopped being a development league 15 years ago. It is a niche and exclusive sport in the US. Why these coaches want to turn it into the premier league I have no idea. Watching teams have half their games end up as ties in a 16 game season because coaches think they're Pep Guardiola has greatly reduced the uniqueness of the sport. US soccer is not going to elevate their quality through college soccer. It's too late in the development stage, players have to be in academies well before college. Let's say you get a player or two through in the proposed system, you're going to completely change the landscape all for that? You'll have to drastically reduce the number of international players which will set off its own set of problems (despite lots of other countries having limits on international players in their systems) with people making bad faith arguments about xenophobia.
This is just incredibly stupid and completely misses the point. Fund academies and use resources on coaches and talent development/identification.
I will say.... that's it? This is the long awaited plan to remake college soccer? This is what 213 DI programs are going to sign up for?
My only question is ... did they actually pay for this? Or did they ask ChatGPT to make it up.
Whole document is full of "Should"... should fund this... should support that. Not one "will".
I am doing an episode of Injured Time on this.... but I could have given you 15 things US Soccer could do today to have an impact on college soccer... and I would have accepted a couple of shirts as compensation.
I mean seriously. What a waste of PDF memory...
SC.
Apart from the US and maybe Canada (that's a wild guess, no idea if accurate) no other country sees it's university system as a conveyor belt of soccer talent. That probably tells you all you need to know and to my view much of this is pushed by coaches of high performing D1 programmes who are recruiting more experienced internationals. We know an Australian turning 23 this year who moved to the US to play for NC State this season, that doesn't say development to me. For our code, college is much better placed to enable young men to be student-athletes, not the other way around.
Quote from: EnmoreCat on October 18, 2025, 06:28:01 PMApart from the US and maybe Canada (that's a wild guess, no idea if accurate) no other country sees it's university system as a conveyor belt of soccer talent. That probably tells you all you need to know and to my view much of this is pushed by coaches of high performing D1 programmes who are recruiting more experienced internationals. We know an Australian turning 23 this year who moved to the US to play for NC State this season, that doesn't say development to me. For our code, college is much better placed to enable young men to be student-athletes, not the other way around.
Clearly, US Soccer has no understanding of this.
Hope you are and the litter are doing well @EnmoreCat.
SC.
Quote from: SimpleCoach on October 18, 2025, 06:34:17 PMQuote from: EnmoreCat on October 18, 2025, 06:28:01 PMApart from the US and maybe Canada (that's a wild guess, no idea if accurate) no other country sees it's university system as a conveyor belt of soccer talent. That probably tells you all you need to know and to my view much of this is pushed by coaches of high performing D1 programmes who are recruiting more experienced internationals. We know an Australian turning 23 this year who moved to the US to play for NC State this season, that doesn't say development to me. For our code, college is much better placed to enable young men to be student-athletes, not the other way around.
Clearly, US Soccer has no understanding of this.
Hope you are and the litter are doing well @EnmoreCat.
SC.
Summer in downtown (and uptown) Enmore, so no complaints here.
OK I'll bite. There has been a lot of change in US Soccer as recent as this year. I stand by earlier comments about financial interests, and I don't think the timing of this particular discussion is coincidence. And yea I am old which means I am cynical.
The last few years MLS has been very busy building its own "pathway to pro," and the NCAA is not the focus despite the ongoing Super Draft. We've seen changes such as the evolution of MLSNP and recent changes to MLSN (https://www.mlssoccer.com/mlsnext/news/mls-next-announces-transformative-sporting-initiatives-for-the-2025-26-season). Last month MLS published its 22 Under 22 (https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/2025-22-under-22-rankings), and only one player was a Super Draft selection. A majority of these 22 players are homegrown talents. With its revenue share model and continued investments in home grown talent MLS might be winking but is not looking at the NCAA for talent. By extension from an MLS lens the influx of NCAA international athletes has little impact on its "pathway to pro." And certainly while no single situation is one size fits all, now there are some MLS "pathway to pro" exit ramps leading to...D1 soccer.
So if MLS doesn't care who does? Imagine a league that perceives a growing US soccer market share and wants a piece. A league that is based on a franchise model with ownership risks/rewards and recently announced a new division one as sanctioned by US Soccer (https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/1331372) and then to add some marketing flare also announced a risky promotion-relegation system (https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_article/show/1334700). While MLS has been off building their own pathway for talent, is there another existing talent pool of say 18-23 year olds to help with this league's massive jump start?
If the USL succeeds within 2 years US Soccer will have a dual soccer pyramid which might include a subset of collegiate student athletes. American capitalism at its best. And the honorable US Soccer college committee notion of "college soccer is the gateway to a degree and a future that would have been unattainable without the sport" is a distant memory on a PDF white paper. Supplemented by an archive of this very own D3 soccer forum, of course. Hopefully edited for all of the taunts on the NESCAC board.
Back to my Metamucil drink now...
Sort of relevant, sort of not:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/19/englands-under-21-leagues-are-filled-with-players-whose-clubs-see-no-future-for-them
Bottom line is that even at the top levels in England, it's a difficult pathway and these are players who are at the very best clubs. The idea that lots of college players are going to progress to long, well paid professional careers is optimistic at best. I am guessing the ones that don't progress in England are some of the same ones coming in as more mature players at the college level and who would be undoubtedly attractive to many coaches.
Quote from: EnmoreCat on October 21, 2025, 03:07:17 AMSort of relevant, sort of not:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/19/englands-under-21-leagues-are-filled-with-players-whose-clubs-see-no-future-for-them
Bottom line is that even at the top levels in England, it's a difficult pathway and these are players who are at the very best clubs. The idea that lots of college players are going to progress to long, well paid professional careers is optimistic at best. I am guessing the ones that don't progress in England are some of the same ones coming in as more mature players at the college level and who would be undoubtedly attractive to many coaches.
Happens all the time, club players overseas (England, Germany etc. ) just look at the top D1 clubs loaded with european players. I was told a few years ago some of the european clubs provide a list of available or soon to be available players so they can be scouted by american colleges.
D1 coaches actually work with scouting organizations which is why they almost never go to scout US tournaments. Like this one among many others https://www.futureelitesports.com/
There's also a large number of international coaches and assistants that have relationships with their homes. Marshall and West Virginia are great examples of English coaches who have a built in pipeline of older guys ready to come play college soccer.
Quote from: pinball on October 22, 2025, 09:19:08 AMThere's also a large number of international coaches and assistants that have relationships with their homes. Marshall and West Virginia are great examples of English coaches who have a built in pipeline of older guys ready to come play college soccer.
Coaches with English accents are obviously superior to US coaches. Hahaha. Amazing how many parents think that. Marshall has players from all over the world to include Brazil and brothers from Russia.
QuoteCoaches with English accents are obviously superior to US coaches. Hahaha. Amazing how many parents think that
that is true to a large extent!
200 MLS signings in 3.5 years is pretty impressive. From MLS NEXT Pro to MLS: 200 First Team Signings (https://www.mlsnextpro.com/news/from-mls-next-pro-to-mls-200-first-team-signings)
My Take on the US Soccer White Paper. (https://youtu.be/ZjKXyOT1gBM?si=uSmXLSwCfr7B6OkX)
SC.
Quote from: Crossit4fun on October 21, 2025, 07:47:07 PMQuote from: EnmoreCat on October 21, 2025, 03:07:17 AMSort of relevant, sort of not:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/oct/19/englands-under-21-leagues-are-filled-with-players-whose-clubs-see-no-future-for-them
Bottom line is that even at the top levels in England, it's a difficult pathway and these are players who are at the very best clubs. The idea that lots of college players are going to progress to long, well paid professional careers is optimistic at best. I am guessing the ones that don't progress in England are some of the same ones coming in as more mature players at the college level and who would be undoubtedly attractive to many coaches.
Happens all the time, club players overseas (England, Germany etc. ) just look at the top D1 clubs loaded with european players. I was told a few years ago some of the european clubs provide a list of available or soon to be available players so they can be scouted by american colleges.
In the D1 Final Four last year only 22% of minutes on the field were given to a player born in America. They had it on the broadcast.
Even in Junior College there is a pretty big international contingent for players. Usually close to a top team that I was most familiar with is Genesee CC in Western New York. International coach and has had some astounding player over the years. Won a few national championships.