With the Massey rankings out for the start of the new season figured now was as good a time as ever to start this year's thread.
https://masseyratings.com/csoc/ncaa-d3/ratings
Just remember they are not accurate. Any NCAA tourney game that was a tie and shootout, Ken recorded as a W or L. So a team like Tufts who did not lose a game was credited with a loss by Ken Massey. He doesn't know how to do the math for soccer.
Quote from: SKUD on July 08, 2025, 09:34:53 PMJust remember they are not accurate. Any NCAA tourney game that was a tie and shootout, Ken recorded as a W or L. So a team like Tufts who did not lose a game was credited with a loss by Ken Massey. He doesn't know how to do the math for soccer.
It's definitely an imperfect tool for some sports. With a sport like soccer the margins are so close and at times subject to chance, and there are calculation errors like you mentioned. I know the rankings change about halfway through the season as far as being based on the current season results, but I still think there is way too much emphasis on previous seasons as far as the algorithm.
I'm happy with the current #1.
Man... I hate to be a bummer, but with all these conferences going with FloSports... I'm not going to type things into existence, but this does not bode well for many of us that follow d3 soccer as a part time hobby.
Or the many of us who follow d3 sports in general. :(
People angry about FLO who have not used it prior to now and are complaining, Please tell me you don't pay for any of the following: HBO/MAX, Netflix, AppleTV, ESPN, Disney, YouTube TV, or any other Streaming subscription. If you pay for those what bothers you about FLO?
I dislike the Flo platform (as a paying customer for over 10 years) because it is not on par with other streaming platforms and from a college athletics perspective it has hurt the production quality of the conference I follow. When it was sold to the conference it was sold as a way to improve and achieve minimum standards. The better schools have lost their best broadcasters, not upgraded cameras or camera position and the schools that were horrible are only marginally better.
Welcome to my world.
Quote from: SKUD on July 17, 2025, 07:44:53 PMPeople angry about FLO who have not used it prior to now and are complaining, Please tell me you don't pay for any of the following: HBO/MAX, Netflix, AppleTV, ESPN, Disney, YouTube TV, or any other Streaming subscription. If you pay for those what bothers you about FLO?
1. The ROI on Flo is much less than any of those other platforms.
2. The minimal funds that are supposed to go to the schools who signed up to improve broadcast quality are seemingly sucked up elsewhere.
3. The average quality of the product is poor and does not represent an improvement over what used to be free. And it doesn't seem to improve over time.
4. I, like many others, already donate more to my school's athletic program than Flo costs. Being forced to pay to watch something I already substantially support is an insult. Or if you're a parent already spending thousands (to tens of thousands) annually to send your child to college, it's another tacked on fee for no good reason.
5. If I want to tell someone to watch an event, they too are forced to pay.
6. This is simply another VC money grab and the people behind it don't give a damn about D3 sports, they just want to get enough
suckers customers to pay for it (because they have no choice once Flo takes over) so they can get bought out and show a profit.
Hope that helps.
Quote from: SKUD on July 17, 2025, 07:44:53 PMPeople angry about FLO who have not used it prior to now and are complaining, Please tell me you don't pay for any of the following: HBO/MAX, Netflix, AppleTV, ESPN, Disney, YouTube TV, or any other Streaming subscription. If you pay for those what bothers you about FLO?
I dislike the Flo platform (as a paying customer for over 10 years) because it is not on par with other streaming platforms and from a college athletics perspective it has hurt the production quality of the conference I follow. When it was sold to the conference it was sold as a way to improve and achieve minimum standards. The better schools have lost their best broadcasters, not upgraded cameras or camera position and the schools that were horrible are only marginally better.
Welcome to my world.
I pay for 2 streaming services at a time. We rotate them when they go stale. But here's the thing, Flo provides nothing to the customer. For $20 a month, Netflix gives you access to a library of things they don't create (a la Flo), and a library of things that they pay to create (all those Netflix exclusive shows and movies).
What does Flo create? Nothing. The broadcasts are the same as what you got before, essentially. There is no value added to Flo. They do nothing besides aggregate what was already out there, mostly for free, and charge you for it. They pay the school some nominal amount to do so, but they add nothing. The whole business model is wall off what was free, do nothing but provide the wall, and get paid to do it.
That's what is so aggravating. If they did something, added something, besides the wall, it would be a different story. But they don't.
It's a pretty simple equation for most of us. I will watch games in the, say, MAC Freedom conference on a Wednesday night if there's pretty much nothing else going on. I'm certainly not going to pay for it.
I can drive up to Baltimore in 45 minutes to watch my alma mater. I don't pay to attend those games and I'm certainly not going to pay for Flo, if it comes to that.
Couldn't agree more with all of you!
~10 years ago when streaming wasn't as universal in d3 I mainly just stuck to watching SLU/Liberty League games and the occasional SUNYAC game here and there for soccer and hoops. I was always a big division I hoops viewer and still would watch a mid major conference game like a Mountain West matchup over a random d3 game. As time went on I got more heavily investing in all things d3 as streaming became more prevalent and consisten. In the post covid NIL era I've watched more d3 sports than at any time in my life due to all the d1 nonsense with NIL and transfers. I know I'm very much an exception to the norm, but so many conferences I've tuned into lately are now off the board. If there was nothing going on late on a weekend I'd watch a SCIAC game, but now that will no longer happen. 10 years ago if you asked me what a Cal Lutheran was I wouldn't have an answer. I'm sure a lot of folks can say the same about lots of good programs around the country that they would not have known much, if anything about. It's not the cost, it's the principle.
Lot of really, really good points on Flo. I agree with all of it. I really think colleges are cutting off their noses to spite there faces.
Maybe a bad example, having grown up in the NY area, I was a big Howard Stern fan. Once he went satellite in 2006 or so, I never listened to him again. So people who starts to like soccer and maybe have a connection to D3 will never discover/watch D3 soccer. In other words, people who never heard Stern, will never find him after 2006. That could be one of the biggest impact.
Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on July 19, 2025, 05:03:27 PMLot of really, really good points on Flo. I agree with all of it. I really think colleges are cutting off their noses to spite there faces.
Maybe a bad example, having grown up in the NY area, I was a big Howard Stern fan. Once he went satellite in 2006 or so, I never listened to him again. So people who starts to like soccer and maybe have a connection to D3 will never discover/watch D3 soccer. In other words, people who never heard Stern, will never find him after 2006. That could be one of the biggest impact.
I actually thought about referencing Stern in my post lol. I thought his first contract at sirius was some of his best years, but it was when he went to 3 days a week is when it really cratered. Someone said "these reduced hours have led to some reduced listening", and that's basically how it's going to be with FLoSports now.
Quote from: stlawus on July 19, 2025, 06:41:39 PMI actually thought about referencing Stern in my post lol. I thought his first contract at sirius was some of his best years, but it was when he went to 3 days a week is when it really cratered. Someone said "these reduced hours have led to some reduced listening", and that's basically how it's going to be with FLoSports now.
Bob Quillman, who follows #d3hoops closely and has many contacts in the industry, said in a tweet (https://x.com/IWUhoopscom/status/1945819069388587069)
QuoteI've received notes from 11 D3 head basketball coaches, so far, who say their stream viewership is down anywhere from the 40% to 80% after moving to Flo.
I believe @d3datacast has received similar messages.
Genius strategy, that.
Quote from: stlawus on July 19, 2025, 06:41:39 PMI actually thought about referencing Stern in my post lol. I thought his first contract at sirius was some of his best years, but it was when he went to 3 days a week is when it really cratered. Someone said "these reduced hours have led to some reduced listening", and that's basically how it's going to be with FLoSports now.
Yeah, hopefully he only got better, but I was not going to pay for satellite radio and I was a huge Stern fan. Plus now he just seems to go on an apology tour. Putting D3 sports behind payways makes it even more irrelevant imo
I will just reiterate what I posted the other day, but put a finer point on this: The vast majority of D3 sports are free to attend in person. I understand a lot of folks aren't within striking distance of their alma mater or even where their kid is attending a D3 school.
But the value prop here is completely out of line with what you are getting for your money. At least with Sirius and their paywall, you are getting a pretty wide range of channels.
Quote from: Hopkins92 on July 21, 2025, 03:21:17 PMI will just reiterate what I posted the other day, but put a finer point on this: The vast majority of D3 sports are free to attend in person. I understand a lot of folks aren't within striking distance of their alma mater or even where their kid is attending a D3 school.
But the value prop here is completely out of line with what you are getting for your money. At least with Sirius and their paywall, you are getting a pretty wide range of channels.
I'm pretty sure this is a feature, not a bug, in the FloSports business model. They are charging a premium price for products for which the demand is highly inelastic. I think I read a quote from the founder that made this point. In the case of FloCollege, that is because parents or alums aren't choosing which DIII or college soccer games to watch based upon price. You can do ESPN+ and watch whatever college soccer game happens to be on or you can subscribe to some mainstream network and watch whatever sports they show. Flo Subscribers, by contrast, want to see a specific game/sport - the one their kid's or alma mater's game is on - and there is no substitute for their service. In the case of the other sports in the FloSports network (which you get access to with a subscription even if it's through your school or conference), they are choosing to air sports like track and field (Diamond League, Penn Relays), wrestling, lacrosse, field hockey, rugby or other niche sports, where there is a small, but dedicated, following in the U.S. and the economics don't pencil out at the price points more mainstream services offer. People aren't choosing to watch those because those happen to be the sports their affordable cable package or streaming service shows; they're seeking out the only service that offers those particular sports. I don't know if it's profitable, but their target audiences are probably pretty loyal.
By the way, from my tour through websites for schedules and rosters, I've noticed a decent number of D3 schools that at least advertise that they charge for tickets. I see it more for football and basketball, but it exists for men's soccer too in places. It's not the standard as far as I can tell, but it's more common than I expected. Here are a sample (prices are for soccer):
North Park (https://athletics.northpark.edu/sports/2012/10/25/AD_1025125356.aspx) ($10)
Calvin (https://calvinknights.com/sports/2024/9/26/calvin-soccer-ticket-information.aspx)($7)
Kalamazoo (https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/2024/5/16/information-tickets.aspx)($8)
Rowan (https://www.rowanathletics.com/sports/2007/2/28/TicketInfo.aspx)($5)
Central (https://athletics.central.edu/sports/2016/11/11/ticket-information.aspx)($8)
TCNJ (https://tcnjathletics.com/sports/2003/4/23/tickets.aspx)($5)
Montclair State (https://montclairathletics.com/sports/2012/2/3/GEN_0203123422) ($6)
Shenandoah (https://suhornets.com/sports/2021/6/23/fans.aspx)($6)
Arcadia (https://arcadiaknights.com/sports/2013/9/17/tickets.aspx)($5)
A recruiting service posted (https://www.instagram.com/p/DMhLd8OuzFM/?igsh=MWk4Nm41ZXdlMnB2ag==) a "Top 40" ranking of D3 men's soccer teams. It's purely to get clicks. They didn't even get to 40 because they skipped #9. Plus, it has some silly schools on it (Mitchell? Willamette?, Dubuque?) Nevertheless, it's the dog days of summer, so have at it
Here are the top "ten" (actually 9), which at least are programs that have had success recently
1. St. Olaf
2. Amherst
3. Stevens
4. Washington & Lee
5. Cortland
6. Franklin & Marshall
7. Connecticut College
8. Johns Hopkins
10. Williams
Quote from: Kuiper on July 25, 2025, 03:04:56 PMA recruiting service posted (https://www.instagram.com/p/DMhLd8OuzFM/?igsh=MWk4Nm41ZXdlMnB2ag==) a "Top 40" ranking of D3 men's soccer teams. It's purely to get clicks. They didn't even get to 40 because they skipped #9. Plus, it has some silly schools on it (Mitchell? Willamette?, Dubuque?) Nevertheless, it's the dog days of summer, so have at it
Here are the top "ten" (actually 9), which at least are programs that have had success recently
1. St. Olaf
2. Amherst
3. Stevens
4. Washington & Lee
5. Cortland
6. Franklin & Marshall
7. Connecticut College
8. Johns Hopkins
10. Williams
I like Colorado College getting ranked twice - did not know their reserve team would be in the top 40 too
And check out #19: BOWDOYI MARGAT
Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 25, 2025, 04:19:59 PMQuote from: Kuiper on July 25, 2025, 03:04:56 PMA recruiting service posted (https://www.instagram.com/p/DMhLd8OuzFM/?igsh=MWk4Nm41ZXdlMnB2ag==) a "Top 40" ranking of D3 men's soccer teams. It's purely to get clicks. They didn't even get to 40 because they skipped #9. Plus, it has some silly schools on it (Mitchell? Willamette?, Dubuque?) Nevertheless, it's the dog days of summer, so have at it
Here are the top "ten" (actually 9), which at least are programs that have had success recently
1. St. Olaf
2. Amherst
3. Stevens
4. Washington & Lee
5. Cortland
6. Franklin & Marshall
7. Connecticut College
8. Johns Hopkins
10. Williams
I like Colorado College getting ranked twice - did not know their reserve team would be in the top 40 too
And check out #19: BOWDOYI MARGAT
AI generated, as is much of the web these days. And not high quality even for that.
The post has apparently since been removed.
Edit: the entire IG account for "thetalentrecruiters", with its 41.3K followers, is gone (https://www.instagram.com/thetalentrecruiters/). Their website (www.thetalentrecruiter.com) is still up, for what it's worth.
I saw a similar thing for D2 which had Alderson-Broaddus, which has closed.
c
Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 26, 2025, 07:55:08 AMThe post has apparently since been removed.
Edit: the entire IG account for "thetalentrecruiters", with its 41.3K followers, is gone (https://www.instagram.com/thetalentrecruiters/). Their website (www.thetalentrecruiter.com) is still up, for what it's worth.
Sorry for clogging the board with this nonsense. I thought it was silly from the start, but apparently it was even sillier than I thought. Still, you know some parents/recruits saw it before it was removed and believe it as gospel
It just popped up in my feed today, so it's not gone.
4 weeks till D3 Soccer!
Quote from: SKUD on August 01, 2025, 07:56:36 AM4 weeks till D3 Soccer!
Two weeks or less until most teams report for preseason training and less than three weeks before most teams will have their first preseason match!
USC Pre-Season Poll hit yesterday. Is this the same as the final rankings last year?
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Quote from: fromagesuisse on August 01, 2025, 10:29:35 AMUSC Pre-Season Poll hit yesterday. Is this the same as the final rankings last year?
https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/
Same as last year. You can tell by looking at the columns with previous rankings.
The closest things to real preseason coaches rankings are the preseason coaches polls that some conferences do where they vote on the predicted order of finish for the teams in the conference. We'll start to see some of those around the third week in August. Coaches know better about the key departures and returners for the teams in their own conferences.
Congrats to Colorado College's men's soccer team which posted that it not only won a Team Academic Award from United Soccer Coaches, but its team GPA of 3.80 was the highest in the country over all divisions.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0pHS9Me29/?igsh=MWcyaG12c2R2MjZ2bQ==
CC does remarkably well academically given the amount of travel all their teams are forced into.
Quote from: Kuiper on August 01, 2025, 03:24:18 PMCongrats to Colorado College's men's soccer team which posted that it not only won a Team Academic Award from United Soccer Coaches, but its team GPA of 3.80 was the highest in the country over all divisions.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0pHS9Me29/?igsh=MWcyaG12c2R2MjZ2bQ==
Looks like we have a real ranking controversy as Macalester claims that they actually had the highest team GPA in the country at 3.83
https://www.instagram.com/p/DM097LlOQbj/?igsh=b3N4dGxxZGthYWlu
Pretty soon MIT and Caltech are going to argue that their schools should be crowned the champions on a grade-inflation and strength of (course) schedule-adjusted basis!
Quote from: Kuiper on August 03, 2025, 07:37:07 AMQuote from: Kuiper on August 01, 2025, 03:24:18 PMCongrats to Colorado College's men's soccer team which posted that it not only won a Team Academic Award from United Soccer Coaches, but its team GPA of 3.80 was the highest in the country over all divisions.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0pHS9Me29/?igsh=MWcyaG12c2R2MjZ2bQ==
Looks like we have a real ranking controversy as Macalester claims that they actually had the highest team GPA in the country at 3.83
https://www.instagram.com/p/DM097LlOQbj/?igsh=b3N4dGxxZGthYWlu
Pretty soon MIT and Caltech are going to argue that their schools should be crowned the champions on a grade-inflation and strength of (course) schedule-adjusted basis!
Didn't Oxy get a Macalester transfer. How does that factor?
Here's the source: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/2024-25-college-team-academic-award-winners-announced/
MacAlester does have the higher GPA among men's teams, 3.83 to 3.80. Both won the team academic award which is given to programs having a "team grade point average of 3.0 or higher".
I posted the correction to CC's IG, we'll see if they actually do anything.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 03, 2025, 10:17:05 AMHere's the source: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/2024-25-college-team-academic-award-winners-announced/
MacAlester does have the higher GPA among men's teams, 3.83 to 3.80. Both won the team academic award which is given to programs having a "team grade point average of 3.0 or higher".
I posted the correction to CC's IG, we'll see if they actually do anything.
Perhaps Colorado College will claim that they only count to the first decimal place and therefore they rounded Macalester's avg GPA down to 3.8 and claimed to be tied for first.
Courtesy D3Playbook, top ten active coaches in number of D3 wins (not winning percentage):
1. Paul McGinlay, Trinity TX, 571-96-47
2. Jon Anderson, Babson, 471-202-94
3. Erick Baumann, Dominican, 463-119-50
4. Pepe Fernandez, Maryville, 421-195-52
5. Lenny Armuth, Drew, 405-156-60
6. Brent Ridenour, Franciscan, 354-140-49
7. Kevin East, Rutgers-Newark, 345-188-47
8. Shawn Griffin, Hobart, 342-192-67
9. Bob Carlson, Carleton, 307-153-53
10. Brad McCarty, Messiah, 300-26-21
In terms of winning percentage (only among top ten in terms of wins):
1. Brad McCarty, Messiah, 89.5%
2. Paul McGinlay, Trinity TX, 83.3%
3. Erick Baumann, Dominican, 77.2%
4. Lenny Armuth, Drew, 70.0%
5. Brent Ridenour, Franciscan, 69.7%
6. Jon Anderson, Babson, 67.5%
7. Pepe Fernandez, Maryville, 66.9%
8. Bob Carlson, Carleton, 65.0%
9. Kevin East, Rutgers-Newark, 63.5%
10. Shawn Griffin, Hobart, 62.5%
Looking in more depth at the NCAA's record book (https://fs.ncaa.org.s3.amazonaws.com/Docs/stats/m_soccer_RB/Coaching.pdf), McCarty's .895 is currently the best all-time among men's soccer coaches at all divisions with at least ten years of experience, well ahead of San Francisco's Gus Donoghue whose 121-12-14/.871 record was accumulated in the mid 1900s. McGinlay ranks sixth via the same metric. In terms of overall wins, McGinlay ranks seventh behind all-time leader Jay Martin of Ohio Wesleyan (774-169-84/.795 over 47 seasons) and will overtake Skip Roderick of Elizabethtown (573-181-78/.736 in 40 seasons) for sixth with three victories. Babson's Jon Anderson ranks 23rd all time and could move up as many as four spots with a season such as the one last year. Dominican's Baumann should crack the top 25 with another successful year.
Ryan Souders at Calvin (234-37-16/.843 in 13 seasons) will be on this list should he continue that level of success for several more years, as would Amherst's Justin Serpone (264-38-48/.823 in 17 seasons) and Montclair State's Todd Tumelty (224-53-25/.783 in 14).
Quote from: Kuiper on August 03, 2025, 10:32:19 AMQuote from: Ron Boerger on August 03, 2025, 10:17:05 AMHere's the source: https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/2024-25-college-team-academic-award-winners-announced/
MacAlester does have the higher GPA among men's teams, 3.83 to 3.80. Both won the team academic award which is given to programs having a "team grade point average of 3.0 or higher".
I posted the correction to CC's IG, we'll see if they actually do anything.
Perhaps Colorado College will claim that they only count to the first decimal place and therefore they rounded Macalester's avg GPA down to 3.8 and claimed to be tied for first.
Colorado College is probably claiming that their team GPA is altitude-adjusted.
Hahaha, definitely worth a few thousands of a percent!
More academic news from DIII men's soccer
Over the summer, several men's soccer athletes were nominated by their conferences for the 2025 Division III Commissioner's Association (DIIICA) Student Athlete of the Year award
Ryan Cogill, Alvernia (https://auwolves.com/news/2025/8/5/mens-soccer-cogill-named-nominee-for-diiica-student-athlete-of-the-year-award.aspx)
Shea Bechtel, St. Olaf (https://athletics.stolaf.edu/news/2025/7/10/mens-soccer-bechtel-nominated-for-diiica-mens-sport-student-athlete-of-the-year.aspx)
Peter Silvester, Conn College (https://camelathletics.com/news/2025/7/8/general-finkel-silvester-selected-as-nescac-nominees-for-d3ca-mens-sport-athlete-of-the-year-award.aspx#:~:text=HADLEY%2C%20Mass.%20%E2%80%93%20Conn.%20College%20seniors%20Justin,Men%27s%20Sport%20Student%2DAthlete%20of%20the%20Year%20award.) (I posted about that earlier in the summer)
Hey, CC actually took down their post about having the highest GPA among men's soccer teams. Kudos to them.
Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 06, 2025, 01:25:58 PMHey, CC actually took down their post about having the highest GPA among men's soccer teams. Kudos to them.
They probably meant they were higher than their football team.
LOL, that would be pretty hard considering CC hasn't fielded a football team since 2008. Or maybe pretty easy?
Not D3, and I didn't want to start a new thread....
When Dave Brandt took over a hapless Bucknell program in 2022 (9 straight years without a winning record) I said to give him 3-4 years of recruiting the players he wants and he'd turn Bucknell into the best team in the Patriot.
Year 1 (not his players) - 4-10-3
Year 2 (likely not many of his players) - 3-12-2
Year 3 (starting to get his players) - 2-10-4
Year 4 (likely most of his players) - 7-7-6 (Patriot League Tournament Champions)
Year 5 (likely all his players) - Preseason #2 in Conference with 4 first place votes.
What I wouldn't give to see him move up the coaching ladder. The guy just wins while playing great soccer.
Please, Dave Brandt is a D3 legend with Messiah and 6 Nat'l Championships. No Dave, no Messiah imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBC3FMn9zS8
He did a fine job at Navy. Saw him up close there. However, he had a lot of constraints with the recruitment requirements. Not sure exactly why he left after 6 years. They actually won a NCAA tournament game which was first for Navy and probably not done, or rarely done, by anyone in the Patriot League.
So it is great to see him do well with Bucknell also not known as a soccer power.
Side note, Loyola was previously coached by Gettysburg's recently retired Mark Mettrick. He had left Loyola before they joined the PL, but was know a very good coach in the Baltimore area. Also Dickinson's Jorge Chapoy was an assistant coach at Lafayette (in my hometown) for 6 years.