D3boards.com

With the Massey rankings out for the start of the new season figured now was as good a time as ever to start this year's thread. 

https://masseyratings.com/csoc/ncaa-d3/ratings

Just remember they are not accurate. Any NCAA tourney game that was a tie and shootout, Ken recorded as a W or L. So a team like Tufts who did not lose a game was credited with a loss by Ken Massey. He doesn't know how to do the math for soccer.

Quote from: SKUD on July 08, 2025, 09:34:53 PMJust remember they are not accurate. Any NCAA tourney game that was a tie and shootout, Ken recorded as a W or L. So a team like Tufts who did not lose a game was credited with a loss by Ken Massey. He doesn't know how to do the math for soccer.

It's definitely an imperfect tool for some sports.  With a sport like soccer the margins are so close and at times subject to chance, and there are calculation errors like you mentioned. I know the rankings change about halfway through the season as far as being based on the current season results, but I still think there is way too much emphasis on previous seasons as far as the algorithm.   

I'm happy with the current #1. 

Man... I hate to be a bummer, but with all these conferences going with FloSports... I'm not going to type things into existence, but this does not bode well for many of us that follow d3 soccer as a part time hobby.

Or the many of us who follow d3 sports in general.   :(

People angry about FLO who have not used it prior to now and are complaining, Please tell me you don't pay for any of the following: HBO/MAX, Netflix, AppleTV, ESPN, Disney, YouTube TV, or any other Streaming subscription. If you pay for those what bothers you about FLO?

I dislike the Flo platform (as a paying customer for over 10 years) because it is not on par with other streaming platforms and from a college athletics perspective it has hurt the production quality of the conference I follow. When it was sold to the conference it was sold as a way to improve and achieve minimum standards. The better schools have lost their best broadcasters, not upgraded cameras or camera position and the schools that were horrible are only marginally better.

Welcome to my world.

Quote from: SKUD on July 17, 2025, 07:44:53 PMPeople angry about FLO who have not used it prior to now and are complaining, Please tell me you don't pay for any of the following: HBO/MAX, Netflix, AppleTV, ESPN, Disney, YouTube TV, or any other Streaming subscription. If you pay for those what bothers you about FLO?

1.  The ROI on Flo is much less than any of those other platforms.   
2.  The minimal funds that are supposed to go to the schools who signed up to improve broadcast quality are seemingly sucked up elsewhere.
3.  The average quality of the product is poor and does not represent an improvement over what used to be free.  And it doesn't seem to improve over time. 
4.  I, like many others, already donate more to my school's athletic program than Flo costs.  Being forced to pay to watch something I already substantially support is an insult.  Or if you're a parent already spending thousands (to tens of thousands) annually to send your child to college, it's another tacked on fee for no good reason.
5.  If I want to tell someone to watch an event, they too are forced to pay.
6.  This is simply another VC money grab and the people behind it don't give a damn about D3 sports, they just want to get enough suckers customers to pay for it (because they have no choice once Flo takes over) so they can get bought out and show a profit.

Hope that helps. 

Quote from: SKUD on July 17, 2025, 07:44:53 PMPeople angry about FLO who have not used it prior to now and are complaining, Please tell me you don't pay for any of the following: HBO/MAX, Netflix, AppleTV, ESPN, Disney, YouTube TV, or any other Streaming subscription. If you pay for those what bothers you about FLO?

I dislike the Flo platform (as a paying customer for over 10 years) because it is not on par with other streaming platforms and from a college athletics perspective it has hurt the production quality of the conference I follow. When it was sold to the conference it was sold as a way to improve and achieve minimum standards. The better schools have lost their best broadcasters, not upgraded cameras or camera position and the schools that were horrible are only marginally better.

Welcome to my world.

I pay for 2 streaming services at a time. We rotate them when they go stale. But here's the thing, Flo provides nothing to the customer. For $20 a month, Netflix gives you access to a library of things they don't create (a la Flo), and a library of things that they pay to create (all those Netflix exclusive shows and movies).

What does Flo create? Nothing. The broadcasts are the same as what you got before, essentially. There is no value added to Flo. They do nothing besides aggregate what was already out there, mostly for free, and charge you for it. They pay the school some nominal amount to do so, but they add nothing. The whole business model is wall off what was free, do nothing but provide the wall, and get paid to do it.

That's what is so aggravating. If they did something, added something, besides the wall, it would be a different story. But they don't.

It's a pretty simple equation for most of us. I will watch games in the, say, MAC Freedom conference on a Wednesday night if there's pretty much nothing else going on. I'm certainly not going to pay for it.

I can drive up to Baltimore in 45 minutes to watch my alma mater. I don't pay to attend those games and I'm certainly not going to pay for Flo, if it comes to that.

Couldn't agree more with all of you!

~10 years ago when streaming wasn't as universal in d3 I mainly just stuck to watching SLU/Liberty League games and the occasional SUNYAC game here and there for soccer and hoops.  I was always a big division I hoops viewer and still would watch a mid major conference game like a Mountain West matchup over a random d3 game. As time went on I got more heavily investing in all things d3 as streaming became more prevalent and consisten. In the post covid NIL era I've watched more d3 sports than at any time in my life due to all the d1 nonsense with NIL and transfers.  I know I'm very much an exception to the norm, but so many conferences I've tuned into lately are now off the board.  If there was nothing going on late on a weekend I'd watch a SCIAC game, but now that will no longer happen.  10 years ago if you asked me what a Cal Lutheran was I wouldn't have an answer.  I'm sure a lot of folks can say the same about lots of good programs around the country that they would not have known much, if anything about.  It's not the cost, it's the principle.

Lot of really, really good points on Flo. I agree with all of it. I really think colleges are cutting off their noses to spite there faces.

Maybe a bad example, having grown up in the NY area, I was a big Howard Stern fan.  Once he went satellite in 2006 or so, I never listened to him again. So people who starts to like soccer and maybe have a connection to D3 will never discover/watch D3 soccer. In other words, people who never heard Stern, will never find him after 2006. That could be one of the biggest impact.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on July 19, 2025, 05:03:27 PMLot of really, really good points on Flo. I agree with all of it. I really think colleges are cutting off their noses to spite there faces.

Maybe a bad example, having grown up in the NY area, I was a big Howard Stern fan.  Once he went satellite in 2006 or so, I never listened to him again. So people who starts to like soccer and maybe have a connection to D3 will never discover/watch D3 soccer. In other words, people who never heard Stern, will never find him after 2006. That could be one of the biggest impact.

I actually thought about referencing Stern in my post lol.  I thought his first contract at sirius was some of his best years, but it was when he went to 3 days a week is when it really cratered.  Someone said "these reduced hours have led to some reduced listening", and that's basically how it's going to be with FLoSports now.

Quote from: stlawus on July 19, 2025, 06:41:39 PMI actually thought about referencing Stern in my post lol.  I thought his first contract at sirius was some of his best years, but it was when he went to 3 days a week is when it really cratered.  Someone said "these reduced hours have led to some reduced listening", and that's basically how it's going to be with FLoSports now.

Bob Quillman, who follows #d3hoops closely and has many contacts in the industry, said in a tweet (https://x.com/IWUhoopscom/status/1945819069388587069)

QuoteI've received notes from 11 D3 head basketball coaches, so far, who say their stream viewership is down anywhere from the 40% to 80% after moving to Flo.

I believe @d3datacast  has received similar messages.

Genius strategy, that.

Quote from: stlawus on July 19, 2025, 06:41:39 PMI actually thought about referencing Stern in my post lol.  I thought his first contract at sirius was some of his best years, but it was when he went to 3 days a week is when it really cratered.  Someone said "these reduced hours have led to some reduced listening", and that's basically how it's going to be with FLoSports now.

Yeah, hopefully he only got better, but I was not going to pay for satellite radio and I was a huge Stern fan. Plus now he just seems to go on an apology tour. Putting D3 sports behind payways makes it even more irrelevant imo

I will just reiterate what I posted the other day, but put a finer point on this: The vast majority of D3 sports are free to attend in person. I understand a lot of folks aren't within striking distance of their alma mater or even where their kid is attending a D3 school.

But the value prop here is completely out of line with what you are getting for your money. At least with Sirius and their paywall, you are getting a pretty wide range of channels.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on July 21, 2025, 03:21:17 PMI will just reiterate what I posted the other day, but put a finer point on this: The vast majority of D3 sports are free to attend in person. I understand a lot of folks aren't within striking distance of their alma mater or even where their kid is attending a D3 school.

But the value prop here is completely out of line with what you are getting for your money. At least with Sirius and their paywall, you are getting a pretty wide range of channels.

I'm pretty sure this is a feature, not a bug, in the FloSports business model.  They are charging a premium price for products for which the demand is highly inelastic.  I think I read a quote from the founder that made this point.  In the case of FloCollege, that is because parents or alums aren't choosing which DIII or college soccer games to watch based upon price.  You can do ESPN+ and watch whatever college soccer game happens to be on or you can subscribe to some mainstream network and watch whatever sports they show.  Flo Subscribers, by contrast, want to see a specific game/sport - the one their kid's or alma mater's game is on - and there is no substitute for their service.  In the case of the other sports in the FloSports network (which you get access to with a subscription even if it's through your school or conference), they are choosing to air sports like track and field (Diamond League, Penn Relays), wrestling, lacrosse, field hockey, rugby or other niche sports, where there is a small, but dedicated, following in the U.S. and the economics don't pencil out at the price points more mainstream services offer.  People aren't choosing to watch those because those happen to be the sports their affordable cable package or streaming service shows; they're seeking out the only service that offers those particular sports.  I don't know if it's profitable, but their target audiences are probably pretty loyal.

By the way, from my tour through websites for schedules and rosters, I've noticed a decent number of D3 schools that at least advertise that they charge for tickets.  I see it more for football and basketball, but it exists for men's soccer too in places.  It's not the standard as far as I can tell, but it's more common than I expected.  Here are a sample (prices are for soccer):

North Park (https://athletics.northpark.edu/sports/2012/10/25/AD_1025125356.aspx) ($10)
Calvin  (https://calvinknights.com/sports/2024/9/26/calvin-soccer-ticket-information.aspx)($7)
Kalamazoo  (https://hornets.kzoo.edu/sports/2024/5/16/information-tickets.aspx)($8)
Rowan  (https://www.rowanathletics.com/sports/2007/2/28/TicketInfo.aspx)($5)
Central  (https://athletics.central.edu/sports/2016/11/11/ticket-information.aspx)($8)
TCNJ  (https://tcnjathletics.com/sports/2003/4/23/tickets.aspx)($5)
Montclair State (https://montclairathletics.com/sports/2012/2/3/GEN_0203123422) ($6)
Shenandoah  (https://suhornets.com/sports/2021/6/23/fans.aspx)($6)
Arcadia  (https://arcadiaknights.com/sports/2013/9/17/tickets.aspx)($5)

A recruiting service posted (https://www.instagram.com/p/DMhLd8OuzFM/?igsh=MWk4Nm41ZXdlMnB2ag==) a "Top 40" ranking of D3 men's soccer teams. It's purely to get clicks.  They didn't even get to 40 because they skipped #9.  Plus, it has some silly schools on it (Mitchell? Willamette?, Dubuque?) Nevertheless, it's the dog days of summer, so have at it

Here are the top "ten" (actually 9), which at least are programs that have had success recently

1. St. Olaf
2. Amherst
3. Stevens
4. Washington & Lee
5. Cortland
6. Franklin & Marshall
7. Connecticut College
8. Johns Hopkins
10. Williams

Quote from: Kuiper on July 25, 2025, 03:04:56 PMA recruiting service posted (https://www.instagram.com/p/DMhLd8OuzFM/?igsh=MWk4Nm41ZXdlMnB2ag==) a "Top 40" ranking of D3 men's soccer teams. It's purely to get clicks.  They didn't even get to 40 because they skipped #9.  Plus, it has some silly schools on it (Mitchell? Willamette?, Dubuque?) Nevertheless, it's the dog days of summer, so have at it

Here are the top "ten" (actually 9), which at least are programs that have had success recently

1. St. Olaf
2. Amherst
3. Stevens
4. Washington & Lee
5. Cortland
6. Franklin & Marshall
7. Connecticut College
8. Johns Hopkins
10. Williams

I like Colorado College getting ranked twice - did not know their reserve team would be in the top 40 too

And check out #19:  BOWDOYI MARGAT

Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 25, 2025, 04:19:59 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on July 25, 2025, 03:04:56 PMA recruiting service posted (https://www.instagram.com/p/DMhLd8OuzFM/?igsh=MWk4Nm41ZXdlMnB2ag==) a "Top 40" ranking of D3 men's soccer teams. It's purely to get clicks.  They didn't even get to 40 because they skipped #9.  Plus, it has some silly schools on it (Mitchell? Willamette?, Dubuque?) Nevertheless, it's the dog days of summer, so have at it

Here are the top "ten" (actually 9), which at least are programs that have had success recently

1. St. Olaf
2. Amherst
3. Stevens
4. Washington & Lee
5. Cortland
6. Franklin & Marshall
7. Connecticut College
8. Johns Hopkins
10. Williams

I like Colorado College getting ranked twice - did not know their reserve team would be in the top 40 too

And check out #19:  BOWDOYI MARGAT

AI generated, as is much of the web these days. And not high quality even for that.

The post has apparently since been removed. 

Edit:  the entire IG account for "thetalentrecruiters", with its 41.3K followers, is gone (https://www.instagram.com/thetalentrecruiters/).  Their website (www.thetalentrecruiter.com) is still up, for what it's worth.

I saw a similar thing for D2 which had Alderson-Broaddus, which has closed.

c

Quote from: Ron Boerger on July 26, 2025, 07:55:08 AMThe post has apparently since been removed. 

Edit:  the entire IG account for "thetalentrecruiters", with its 41.3K followers, is gone (https://www.instagram.com/thetalentrecruiters/).  Their website (www.thetalentrecruiter.com) is still up, for what it's worth.

Sorry for clogging the board with this nonsense.  I thought it was silly from the start, but apparently it was even sillier than I thought.  Still, you know some parents/recruits saw it before it was removed and believe it as gospel

It just popped up in my feed today, so it's not gone.

4 weeks till D3 Soccer!

Quote from: SKUD on August 01, 2025, 07:56:36 AM4 weeks till D3 Soccer!

Two weeks or less until most teams report for preseason training and less than three weeks before most teams will have their first preseason match!

USC Pre-Season Poll hit yesterday. Is this the same as the final rankings last year?

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

Quote from: fromagesuisse on August 01, 2025, 10:29:35 AMUSC Pre-Season Poll hit yesterday. Is this the same as the final rankings last year?

https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/rankings/college-rankings/ncaa-diii-men/

Same as last year.  You can tell by looking at the columns with previous rankings.

The closest things to real preseason coaches rankings are the preseason coaches polls that some conferences do where they vote on the predicted order of finish for the teams in the conference.  We'll start to see some of those around the third week in August.  Coaches know better about the key departures and returners for the teams in their own conferences.

Congrats to Colorado College's men's soccer team which posted that it not only won a Team Academic Award from United Soccer Coaches, but its team GPA of 3.80 was the highest in the country over all divisions. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0pHS9Me29/?igsh=MWcyaG12c2R2MjZ2bQ==

CC does remarkably well academically given the amount of travel all their teams are forced into.

Quote from: Kuiper on August 01, 2025, 03:24:18 PMCongrats to Colorado College's men's soccer team which posted that it not only won a Team Academic Award from United Soccer Coaches, but its team GPA of 3.80 was the highest in the country over all divisions. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0pHS9Me29/?igsh=MWcyaG12c2R2MjZ2bQ==

Looks like we have a real ranking controversy as Macalester claims that they actually had the highest team GPA in the country at 3.83

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM097LlOQbj/?igsh=b3N4dGxxZGthYWlu

Pretty soon MIT and Caltech are going to argue that their schools should be crowned the champions on a grade-inflation and strength of (course) schedule-adjusted basis!

Quote from: Kuiper on August 03, 2025, 07:37:07 AM

Quote from: Kuiper on August 01, 2025, 03:24:18 PMCongrats to Colorado College's men's soccer team which posted that it not only won a Team Academic Award from United Soccer Coaches, but its team GPA of 3.80 was the highest in the country over all divisions. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM0pHS9Me29/?igsh=MWcyaG12c2R2MjZ2bQ==

Looks like we have a real ranking controversy as Macalester claims that they actually had the highest team GPA in the country at 3.83

https://www.instagram.com/p/DM097LlOQbj/?igsh=b3N4dGxxZGthYWlu

Pretty soon MIT and Caltech are going to argue that their schools should be crowned the champions on a grade-inflation and strength of (course) schedule-adjusted basis!

Didn't Oxy get a Macalester transfer.  How does that factor?

Here's the source:  https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/2024-25-college-team-academic-award-winners-announced/

MacAlester does have the higher GPA among men's teams, 3.83 to 3.80.   Both won the team academic award which is given to programs having a "team grade point average of 3.0 or higher".

I posted the correction to CC's IG, we'll see if they actually do anything.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 03, 2025, 10:17:05 AMHere's the source:  https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/2024-25-college-team-academic-award-winners-announced/

MacAlester does have the higher GPA among men's teams, 3.83 to 3.80.   Both won the team academic award which is given to programs having a "team grade point average of 3.0 or higher".

I posted the correction to CC's IG, we'll see if they actually do anything.

Perhaps Colorado College will claim that they only count to the first decimal place and therefore they rounded Macalester's avg GPA down to 3.8 and claimed to be tied for first.

Courtesy D3Playbook, top ten active coaches in number of D3 wins (not winning percentage):

1. Paul McGinlay, Trinity TX, 571-96-47
2. Jon Anderson, Babson, 471-202-94
3. Erick Baumann, Dominican, 463-119-50
4. Pepe Fernandez, Maryville, 421-195-52
5. Lenny Armuth, Drew, 405-156-60
6. Brent Ridenour, Franciscan, 354-140-49
7. Kevin East, Rutgers-Newark, 345-188-47
8. Shawn Griffin, Hobart, 342-192-67
9. Bob Carlson, Carleton, 307-153-53
10. Brad McCarty, Messiah, 300-26-21

In terms of winning percentage (only among top ten in terms of wins):

1. Brad McCarty, Messiah, 89.5%
2. Paul McGinlay, Trinity TX, 83.3%
3. Erick Baumann, Dominican, 77.2%
4. Lenny Armuth, Drew, 70.0%
5. Brent Ridenour, Franciscan, 69.7%
6. Jon Anderson, Babson, 67.5%
7. Pepe Fernandez, Maryville, 66.9%
8. Bob Carlson, Carleton, 65.0%
9. Kevin East, Rutgers-Newark, 63.5%
10. Shawn Griffin, Hobart, 62.5%

Looking in more depth at the NCAA's record book (https://fs.ncaa.org.s3.amazonaws.com/Docs/stats/m_soccer_RB/Coaching.pdf), McCarty's .895 is currently the best all-time among men's soccer coaches at all divisions with at least ten years of experience, well ahead of San Francisco's Gus Donoghue whose 121-12-14/.871 record was accumulated in the mid 1900s.  McGinlay ranks sixth via the same metric.  In terms of overall wins, McGinlay ranks seventh behind all-time leader Jay Martin of Ohio Wesleyan (774-169-84/.795 over 47 seasons) and will overtake Skip Roderick of Elizabethtown (573-181-78/.736 in 40 seasons) for sixth with three victories.   Babson's Jon Anderson ranks 23rd all time and could move up as many as four spots with a season such as the one last year.  Dominican's Baumann should crack the top 25 with another successful year.

Ryan Souders at Calvin (234-37-16/.843 in 13 seasons) will be on this list should he continue that level of success for several more years, as would Amherst's Justin Serpone (264-38-48/.823 in 17 seasons) and Montclair State's Todd Tumelty (224-53-25/.783 in 14).

Quote from: Kuiper on August 03, 2025, 10:32:19 AM

Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 03, 2025, 10:17:05 AMHere's the source:  https://unitedsoccercoaches.org/2024-25-college-team-academic-award-winners-announced/

MacAlester does have the higher GPA among men's teams, 3.83 to 3.80.   Both won the team academic award which is given to programs having a "team grade point average of 3.0 or higher".

I posted the correction to CC's IG, we'll see if they actually do anything.

Perhaps Colorado College will claim that they only count to the first decimal place and therefore they rounded Macalester's avg GPA down to 3.8 and claimed to be tied for first.

Colorado College is probably claiming that their team GPA is altitude-adjusted.

Hahaha, definitely worth a few thousands of a percent!

More academic news from DIII men's soccer

Over the summer, several men's soccer athletes were nominated by their conferences for the 2025 Division III Commissioner's Association (DIIICA) Student Athlete of the Year award

Ryan Cogill, Alvernia (https://auwolves.com/news/2025/8/5/mens-soccer-cogill-named-nominee-for-diiica-student-athlete-of-the-year-award.aspx)

Shea Bechtel, St. Olaf (https://athletics.stolaf.edu/news/2025/7/10/mens-soccer-bechtel-nominated-for-diiica-mens-sport-student-athlete-of-the-year.aspx)

Peter Silvester, Conn College (https://camelathletics.com/news/2025/7/8/general-finkel-silvester-selected-as-nescac-nominees-for-d3ca-mens-sport-athlete-of-the-year-award.aspx#:~:text=HADLEY%2C%20Mass.%20%E2%80%93%20Conn.%20College%20seniors%20Justin,Men%27s%20Sport%20Student%2DAthlete%20of%20the%20Year%20award.) (I posted about that earlier in the summer)

Hey, CC actually took down their post about having the highest GPA among men's soccer teams.  Kudos to them. 

Quote from: Ron Boerger on August 06, 2025, 01:25:58 PMHey, CC actually took down their post about having the highest GPA among men's soccer teams.  Kudos to them. 

They probably meant they were higher than their football team.

LOL, that would be pretty hard considering CC hasn't fielded a football team since 2008.  Or maybe pretty easy?

Not D3, and I didn't want to start a new thread....

When Dave Brandt took over a hapless Bucknell program in 2022 (9 straight years without a winning record) I said to give him 3-4 years of recruiting the players he wants and he'd turn Bucknell into the best team in the Patriot.

Year 1 (not his players) - 4-10-3
Year 2 (likely not many of his players) - 3-12-2
Year 3 (starting to get his players) - 2-10-4
Year 4 (likely most of his players) - 7-7-6 (Patriot League Tournament Champions)
Year 5 (likely all his players) - Preseason #2 in Conference with 4 first place votes.

What I wouldn't give to see him move up the coaching ladder. The guy just wins while playing great soccer.
 

Please, Dave Brandt is a D3 legend with Messiah and 6 Nat'l Championships. No Dave, no Messiah imo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBC3FMn9zS8

He did a fine job at Navy. Saw him up close there. However, he had a lot of constraints with the recruitment requirements. Not sure exactly why he left after 6 years. They actually won a NCAA tournament game which was first for Navy and probably not done, or rarely done, by anyone in the Patriot League.

So it is great to see him do well with Bucknell also not known as a soccer power.

Side note, Loyola was previously coached by Gettysburg's recently retired Mark Mettrick. He had left Loyola before they joined the PL, but was know a very good coach in the Baltimore area. Also Dickinson's Jorge Chapoy was an assistant coach at Lafayette (in my hometown) for 6 years.

It has been interesting to see the widespread adoption of the long throw in the Premier League this season after its prominence in the DIII NCAA tournament last year. Further proof that DIII exists on the cutting edge of world football.

the UMW Eagles are struggling a bit with the Polar Bears of Ohio Northern. Weak in the middle of field - can't retain possession. I missed the goal that ONU scored but it was in the first 5 minutes. 1-0 ONU at the half.

great FK oppy with 2 minutes left and MW brought the keeper, Kickbush, up to take it. decent effort but off the bar. 
Final ONU 1 - UMW 0

I just checked the LiveScore and the video feed itself and Sewanee beat Johns Hopkins 4-0.  That seems like a shocker.  Anyone who watched the match want to fill in the context?  Did Sewanee "glow up," in the offseason, as the kids would say?  Did they recruit a bunch of DI transfers or freshmen from the Chelsea Academy?  They tied Montclair State 0-0 in their first game, but they were only 6-7-4 last season, including losing to Hopkins 2-0.  Alternatively, has Hopkins declined significantly?  I saw their starting GK went off at halftime

Quote from: Kuiper on August 30, 2025, 07:57:35 PMI just checked the LiveScore and the video feed itself and Sewanee beat Johns Hopkins 4-0.  That seems like a shocker.  Anyone who watched the match want to fill in the context?  Did Sewanee "glow up," in the offseason, as the kids would say?  Did they recruit a bunch of DI transfers or freshmen from the Chelsea Academy?  They tied Montclair State 0-0 in their first game, but they were only 6-7-4 last season, including losing to Hopkins 2-0.  Alternatively, has Hopkins declined significantly?  I saw their starting GK went off at halftime

42 total fouls?!?!

Quote from: Ejay on August 30, 2025, 08:53:10 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on August 30, 2025, 07:57:35 PMI just checked the LiveScore and the video feed itself and Sewanee beat Johns Hopkins 4-0.  That seems like a shocker.  Anyone who watched the match want to fill in the context?  Did Sewanee "glow up," in the offseason, as the kids would say?  Did they recruit a bunch of DI transfers or freshmen from the Chelsea Academy?  They tied Montclair State 0-0 in their first game, but they were only 6-7-4 last season, including losing to Hopkins 2-0.  Alternatively, has Hopkins declined significantly?  I saw their starting GK went off at halftime

42 total fouls?!?!

Hard to believe that there were only 4 yellow cards (all given to Sewanee players).  At some point, with 20 fouls committed by Hopkins and 22 by Sewanee, there's got to be a few cards at least for persistent infringement!

Seriously, though, did Sewanee unleash a high press and Hopkins was caught in the back a lot?

There were 11 yellow cards between Montclair and Sewanee yesterday and a tussle after the end of the match.

Montclair plays the dirty-Jersey style well.

When I watch JHU I feel that is exploitable.

Quote from: Kuiper on August 30, 2025, 07:57:35 PMI just checked the LiveScore and the video feed itself and Sewanee beat Johns Hopkins 4-0.  That seems like a shocker.  Anyone who watched the match want to fill in the context?  Did Sewanee "glow up," in the offseason, as the kids would say?  Did they recruit a bunch of DI transfers or freshmen from the Chelsea Academy?  They tied Montclair State 0-0 in their first game, but they were only 6-7-4 last season, including losing to Hopkins 2-0.  Alternatively, has Hopkins declined significantly?  I saw their starting GK went off at halftime

Breezed through the goals which were all in the 2nd half, but will watch closer. First goal just bad marking. Second from the goal kick gk played it left and back for some reason pushed it across the goal mouth to the other back???  Not good. Third - one min. later bad play in the box led to pk.  4th- Hop was in free fall. Sewanee punt Hop back waves his foot at it, Sewanee in easy score. FYI, right now it looks like Hop is platooning GK at least for the first two games.

When was the last time Hop lost 4-0? At least it is early.  However, would not want to be on that 11 hour bus ride. Would have been a lot better if they lost first and won the second. Lots, lots of play left.

If you want to watch - https://sewaneetigers.com/watch/?Archive=791&type=Archive

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on August 30, 2025, 11:58:19 PMWhen was the last time Hop lost 4-0? At least it is early.  However, would not want to be on that 11 hour bus ride. Would have been a lot better if they lost first and won the second. Lots, lots of play left.

The last time Hopkins lost 0-4 was nearly two years ago, 9/3/2023, but to a much better team (then #4 Mary Washington).  They did lose 13 players from last year's roster - six graduate students, four seniors, a junior and two sophomores, including five of their top six scorers (cumulatively 24 of 35 goals scored, 20 of 37 assists) and one of the two keepers that saw significant time.

Hopkins made some awful mistakes passing in the back that Sewanee exploited.  Including one about six yards from goal.  Having said that Sewanee really took the game to them.  JHU couldn't get out of their half with ball confidently and when they had the ball in the back, it looked real shaky.  I was impressed with Sewanee.  Not sure if they got up for the game or this is a team to keep an eye on, but thought they could play.

UMW looked discombobulated, like they haven't figured out how to play this year.

Thought St. Olaf looked very good and dispensed with Pacific Lutheran.

F&M?  Looked.... fragile.

Like last year, I have my doubts about W&L.  Don't have an edge about them, and wasn't helped by their tie against Oglethorpe. 

More today.  Trying to figure out if I can get down to watch Stockton v Denison.

SC.

Oh, and Haverford.  I still think they get relegated to Division IV, but because the field looked terrible. 

SC.

Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 31, 2025, 08:17:32 AMLike last year, I have my doubts about W&L.  Don't have an edge about them, and wasn't helped by their tie against Oglethorpe. 

I don't disagree. The only thing that gives me a bit of hope is that they looked worse at the start of last year.

Quote from: SKUD on August 30, 2025, 09:46:43 PMMontclair plays the dirty-Jersey style well.

When I watch JHU I feel that is exploitable.

MSU has 20 freshman and 20 who are not. I would say that MSU soccer is meeting its goal of enrolling men!

Big test for F&M against Rowan at 1 today. FYI, both F&M and JHU go out to Ohio to play Denison and Kenyon with a day in between. Could leave their seasons behind in Ohio depending on how they do.

Quote from: Another Mom on August 31, 2025, 09:50:05 AM

Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 31, 2025, 08:17:32 AMLike last year, I have my doubts about W&L.  Don't have an edge about them, and wasn't helped by their tie against Oglethorpe. 

I don't disagree. The only thing that gives me a bit of hope is that they looked worse at the start of last year.

Agreed @AnotherMom.  Not writing them off, but it does make me wonder why it takes them a month to get in gear.

SC.

Quote from: SKUD on August 30, 2025, 09:46:43 PMMontclair plays the dirty-Jersey style well.

"Knives.  No guns"

So I went to Atlanta for the W&L games. It wasn't good. Last year when I saw those first two games I said they had talent but no idea how to play the way a new coach wanted them to play. As the season went along, coach and team adjusted to each other and the talent shown through.

That was not the problem this weekend. This weekend they played the system fairly well, better against Ogelthorpe than Emory, but well enough. I just don't ont think they know where the goals will come from.

If they push the two in off the post and crossbar they likely tie Emory and beat Ogelthorpe, so it wasn't a disaster, just unlucky. They really controlled Ogelthorpe for all but about 20 minutes of the second half, a 20 minutes that W&L seemed to be deep into their bench, and the PK Ogelthorpe scored on was pretty soft.

But that game shouldn't have been 1-0. They need a scorer, and I'm just not sure who it could be.

The game against Emory was not great. Emory played a high line with a lot of pressure and W&L lacked patience. Every transition was pushed up as fast as possible and resulted in aton of lost possession and having to get back on defense. No midfield patience hurt and eventually conceded a goal Emory earned. Emory deserved the win, but W&L had chances.

Anyway, W&L will be dangerous to everyone. They have midfield and defensive talent, but unless someone steps up to score 10 goals or so, it's going to be a tough season with a lot of these "could have been" games slipping away.

100% agree. They need goals and it isn't clear where they are coming from.

Quote from: Another Mom on August 31, 2025, 11:41:32 AM100% agree. They need goals and it isn't clear where they are coming from.

And I won't know since that's probably the last game I'll watch. Shame, it was fun watching them come together last year. But maybe I'll get some tourney games to watch. Can't say I'm going to be checking boxscores. Just not that interesting.

If you haven't seen Denison's first goal against Stockton... sorry for the spoiler.  It is a bomb.  Ok, I just made a video and posted.  Just outstanding.
 (https://youtu.be/DQhETP7hnFs)
Hope you enjoy.

SC.

Sewanee played a very aggressive press. Hopkins lost their freshman starting center back 2 minutes into the game and never recovered. As previous posters have said, first two goals were the result of Sewanee pressure and poor Hopkins play in the back. Third was a penalty that looked like feet getting tangled but it was in the box so no real complaint. Last one was Hopkins crumbling mentally.

Two players I would have expected to start or play significant minutes, CJ Feldman and Jason Pang, didn't play this weekend. I am guessing they are nursing injures.

!! Win of the day !!

Warren Wilson 5 - Mississippi University for Women 0

After 26 games without a win over the last three seasons, Warren Wilson has a win!  The last time Warren Wilson won a game was Oct 8, 2022.  They were 0-14 in 2023 and 0-6 in 2024 before the rest of their season was cancelled because of the devastation caused by Hurricane Helene last fall in western North Carolina.

This wasn't a cheap win either.  WW outshot MUW 26-4.  Of course, the last time MUW won a game was Oct 15, 2023, so Warren Wilson can mostly brag that they aren't the worst team in DIII anymore (to be fair, they weren't before - Lewis & Clark still holds that mantle).

Rowen 2 v. F&M 1.  Rowen deserved to win 4 or 5 to 1. Definitely played much better. F&M keeper had some good saves which he also did yesterday. Both F&M goals came from pks. Like many other teams right now, it needs to have someone to step up and finish. Don't know if that is going to happen any time soon. Going 0-2 to Ohio will probably be very, very bumpy. Not a big stretch to think that they'll come back 0-4.

Trinity(TX) up 2-0 on St Thomas(TX) after 24' but with storms moving in and the game already in a weather delay this may go quite late or get cancelled.

Narrator:  It was.

Quote from: Kuiper on August 31, 2025, 04:34:13 PM!! Win of the day !!

Warren Wilson 5 - Mississippi University for Women 0

After 26 games without a win over the last three seasons, Warren Wilson has a win!  The last time Warren Wilson won a game was Oct 8, 2022.  They were 0-14 in 2023 and 0-6 in 2024 before the rest of their season was cancelled because of the devastation caused by Hurricane Helene last fall in western North Carolina.

This wasn't a cheap win either.  WW outshot MUW 26-4.  Of course, the last time MUW won a game was Oct 15, 2023, so Warren Wilson can mostly brag that they aren't the worst team in DIII anymore (to be fair, they weren't before - Lewis & Clark still holds that mantle).

Incidentally, if you're tracking Lewis & Clark's winless streak, it reached 47 today with a loss to Bushnell (NAIA) 4-0.  They were outshot 21-5. Lewis & Clark has failed to win a game since it re-started the program in 2022 (it was originally cut in 1991), going 0-46-1 during that period.  The lone tie came on October 25, 2023 against George Fox by a 0 to 0 score.  Since then, Lewis & Clark has lost 24 games in a row, which now appears to be the longest current losing streak in the country after Warren Wilson's win. 

Quote from: SimpleCoach on August 31, 2025, 12:10:58 PMIf you haven't seen Denison's first goal against Stockton... sorry for the spoiler.  It is a bomb.  Ok, I just made a video and posted.  Just outstanding.
 (https://youtu.be/DQhETP7hnFs)
Hope you enjoy.

SC.

A rocket shot! Well struck

Quote from: jknezek on August 31, 2025, 11:19:04 AMSo I went to Atlanta for the W&L games. It wasn't good. Last year when I saw those first two games I said they had talent but no idea how to play the way a new coach wanted them to play. As the season went along, coach and team adjusted to each other and the talent shown through.

That was not the problem this weekend. This weekend they played the system fairly well, better against Ogelthorpe than Emory, but well enough. I just don't ont think they know where the goals will come from.

If they push the two in off the post and crossbar they likely tie Emory and beat Ogelthorpe, so it wasn't a disaster, just unlucky. They really controlled Ogelthorpe for all but about 20 minutes of the second half, a 20 minutes that W&L seemed to be deep into their bench, and the PK Ogelthorpe scored on was pretty soft.

But that game shouldn't have been 1-0. They need a scorer, and I'm just not sure who it could be.

The game against Emory was not great. Emory played a high line with a lot of pressure and W&L lacked patience. Every transition was pushed up as fast as possible and resulted in aton of lost possession and having to get back on defense. No midfield patience hurt and eventually conceded a goal Emory earned. Emory deserved the win, but W&L had chances.

Anyway, W&L will be dangerous to everyone. They have midfield and defensive talent, but unless someone steps up to score 10 goals or so, it's going to be a tough season with a lot of these "could have been" games slipping away.

I thought I saw you there.  Were those your two boys?  I was in a conversation with someone when I saw you and then you were gone when I looked up again. 

W&L's diamond midfield and lack of width in the Emory game is hopefully a short-lived experiment.  Unfortunately, the lack of a quality striker for the first time since 2019 likely won't be. 

Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on September 02, 2025, 11:10:18 AMI thought I saw you there.  Were those your two boys?  I was in a conversation with someone when I saw you and then you were gone when I looked up again. 

W&L's diamond midfield and lack of width in the Emory game is hopefully a short-lived experiment.  Unfortunately, the lack of a quality striker for the first time since 2019 likely won't be. 

If I was the shortest and roundest of the three of us, then yes, that was likely me. W&L Tshirt and hat both days. I did meet Kansas Hokie, and partook of the wonderful Emory tailgate before/during the first game, but I didn't know you were there! Those Emory parents are very kind and the tailgate is wonderful.

We stayed at the tailgate in the first half of the Emory game then went down to the field. The second game we sat in the stands, or at least I did. My boys sought some shelter in the building when they were getting burnt alive since dad didn't not remember sunscreen.

I didn't find the formation that bad, I found the pace awful in the first game. I know you beat a high line by moving quickly, but when it just leads to constant turnovers you have to slow down a bit. I also much prefer #16 out wide as opposed to up top, but I think Coach is looking for anyone who can play up top right now. I wasn't a fan of playing Agbeyegbe up top last year either, as I thought he was better running at defenders as opposed to receiving with his back to goal, but I think he was the best option on the roster. This year I'm with you, I'm not sure there is an option on the roster.

Is Illinois Tech for real?  They are 2-0 and just beat Hope 5-3 tonight. 

Illinois Tech was decent last season, going 9-7-3, but they were crushed by the NACC's top teams, Edgewood and Milawukee School of Engineering, whenever they played them.  Hope beat Ohio Wesleyan 3-0 in its opener and was 14-3-3 last season, losing in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament to Wisconsin-Eau Claire. Illinois Tech was not in the least bit intimidated though.  Illinois Tech's sophomore forward Cal Graham scored a hat trick in the first 19 minutes and freshman forward Matteo Secaria had two goals and an assist to absolutely blitz Hope.  IIT had 21 fouls to 7 for Hope, so I'm wondering if this is a situation like Sewanee v. Johns Hopkins where an aggressive press was applied and forced a bunch of mistakes. 

Quote from: jknezek on September 02, 2025, 05:02:55 PM

Quote from: FBALLISLIFE on September 02, 2025, 11:10:18 AMI thought I saw you there.  Were those your two boys?  I was in a conversation with someone when I saw you and then you were gone when I looked up again. 

W&L's diamond midfield and lack of width in the Emory game is hopefully a short-lived experiment.  Unfortunately, the lack of a quality striker for the first time since 2019 likely won't be. 

If I was the shortest and roundest of the three of us, then yes, that was likely me. W&L Tshirt and hat both days. I did meet Kansas Hokie, and partook of the wonderful Emory tailgate before/during the first game, but I didn't know you were there! Those Emory parents are very kind and the tailgate is wonderful.

We stayed at the tailgate in the first half of the Emory game then went down to the field. The second game we sat in the stands, or at least I did. My boys sought some shelter in the building when they were getting burnt alive since dad didn't not remember sunscreen.

I didn't find the formation that bad, I found the pace awful in the first game. I know you beat a high line by moving quickly, but when it just leads to constant turnovers you have to slow down a bit. I also much prefer #16 out wide as opposed to up top, but I think Coach is looking for anyone who can play up top right now. I wasn't a fan of playing Agbeyegbe up top last year either, as I thought he was better running at defenders as opposed to receiving with his back to goal, but I think he was the best option on the roster. This year I'm with you, I'm not sure there is an option on the roster.

Great to meet you and your boys! We have some local parents that make that tailgate such a wonderful experience, all credit to them! Great weekend for Emory, can easily say that they had the best of it in both games but many of those didn't go our way last year (most painful - colorado college at their place, we were better that day). Emory will be favored in every other out of conference match now so record could be something you need to make a long run at the end of the year, we'll see. Emory has the pieces up and down the team, we'll see if they gel into a special year or not, first weekend looked good though.

Someone with a user handle of  D3SoccerWorld has been posting fairly frequently on X on at least men's soccer and posted the following "way too early" rankings (https://x.com/d3soccerworld/status/1963738669048909901?s=46&t=uXiupHZfR0TxrRyWF9BmRg).  It's frankly already out of date even though it was just posted, but it's not crazy either

Top 25

1. Middlebury
2. Denison
3. Tufts
4. Amherst
5. Trinity TX
6. Conn College
7. Wisconsin Eau Claire
8. Gustavus Adolphus
9. Babson
10. Cortland
11. Ohio Northern
12. Vassar
13. Emory
14. Colorado College
15. St. Olaf
16. Rowan
17. MSOE
18. Swarthmore
19. Wisconsin Platteville
20. Williams
21. Southwestern
22. Dickinson
23. Kenyon
24. Washington & Lee
25. Mary Washington

Hopkins steals one on the road in Gambier. 1-0 off of a weird indirect set piece inside Kenyon's 18. I wasn't really watching so I don't know what the call was, but the keeper was very annoyed with the AR.

Hopkins travels to Denison for a match-up against Denison. The D3 poll had Hop with an 18 percent chance to win. I get that losing to Sewanee 4-0 in TN looked bad, but I wonder what the numbers would be with this information available to the hive mind.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 05, 2025, 07:47:54 PMHopkins steals one on the road in Gambier. 1-0 off of a weird indirect set piece inside Kenyon's 18. I wasn't really watching so I don't know what the call was, but the keeper was very annoyed with the AR.

Hopkins travels to Denison for a match-up against Denison. The D3 poll had Hop with an 18 percent chance to win. I get that losing to Sewanee 4-0 in TN looked bad, but I wonder what the numbers would be with this information available to the hive mind.

Yeah, they called it as a pass back to the keeper and keeper picked up the ball. It really was not intentional and should have not been called. Plus the placed the ball much further back in the box which imo made much easier to score.  Hey, 1-0 is 1-0

7+ minute VAR review to see if Swarthmore was fouled in the box at Montclair.  Finally no foul given.  1-0 Montclair.

Some ugly soccer in Grantham tonight. Both the Falcons and Mudd-Scripps played an ugly brand of soccer that made for a pretty exciting 4-3 goal party. While both teams had stretches of brilliance with good buildup and some pretty convincing attacks, the overall defensive performances will lead to short seasons for both teams. Runners free in the box, poor shape, and a lot of players caught sleeping. I'm sure both teams will spend some time in film cleaning these problems up, but tonight was a rough night for those back lines.

On the upside, a passionate performance from Patrick Lee with two goals to show for it, John Laidlow is a force to be reckon with and a "man child" as the falcon announcers so ineloquently said, and Brad McCarty's magic may be running out in Grantham, or maybe it was just Brandts all along.

W&L played really well -- great possession and passing -- but struggled to finish. They outshot Covenant by a wide margin, and the score really should have been 3-0. But a momentary lapse late in the game allowed a Covenant goal. Frustrating!

My take: they are playing better than they were a year ago, so that's good. The first year who scored, Sami Seife, looks like he has a lot of potential.  But they have to figure out how to finish, or I'm not optimistic about the season.

I know and many aren't following the Covenant Scots much. Lots of good reasons.

I started a little last year after beating Hampden Sydney and W&L. They went on to a 12-3-3 season losing in their conf. championship. Since 2018 they have been consistently winning. Lost to W&L in the second round 2-1 in 2021. They also play on top of big hill and call their field Scotland Yard. Looks really nice. 

Maybe your next "Field of Dreams" episode, SimpleCoach!

Per Covenant, the field is nice but it use to be nicer! The trees have grown too tall and block the view off Lookout Mountain plateau. It's still beautiful, but it used to be spectacular.

Almost an amazing comeback.
Franklin hasn't won a game since Sept 30 2023, having gone 0-21-6 since. On the road at Eureka they gave up a goal with under 14 minutes left to fall behind 4-0. Would have been easy to give up at that point but a minute later they converted a penalty, less than 4 minutes after that they scored again, and added a 3rd less than three minutes later. Sadly they couldn't find an equalizer in the final 6 minutes but that was a heck of an effort.
With heart like that we're going to finally get a win at some point this year. I can feel it.

Denison very impressive 3 goals in about 2 min.  4th goal way, way too easy. Going to be another long bus ride home.  Probably actually looking forward to classes on Monday.

W&L Mary Washington game is not behind a paywall. Less than 10 min in the score is 1-1.

Quote from: Another Mom on September 07, 2025, 02:11:43 PMW&L Mary Washington game is not behind a paywall. Less than 10 min in the score is 1-1.

Only one this season? Thanks! hahaha

Quote from: Another Mom on September 07, 2025, 02:11:43 PMW&L Mary Washington game is not behind a paywall. Less than 10 min in the score is 1-1.

for all of those that poo-poo the C2C, at least they haven't sold out to the FloSports overlords

Quote from: eaglesoccerdad on September 07, 2025, 03:04:19 PM

Quote from: Another Mom on September 07, 2025, 02:11:43 PMW&L Mary Washington game is not behind a paywall. Less than 10 min in the score is 1-1.

for all of those that poo-poo the C2C, at least they haven't sold out to the FloSports overlords

I, for one, welcome our new FloSports overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted d3boards.com personality I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves.

D3 mens soccer Massey ratings were cleaned up a bit today, some interesting ratings (Denison #1! Rowan #2!)....it's still way early for data points but fun to chat about who stands out.

https://masseyratings.com/csoc2025/ncaa-d3/ratings

When was the last time Messiah started 0-3? Never?

Quote from: eaglesoccerdad on September 08, 2025, 12:35:06 PMWhen was the last time Messiah started 0-3? Never?

Lot of firsts or maybe not have happened in a long, long time. Already a very interesting season!

They said on the broadcast that it hadn't happened since 1987. I still think Messiah is quite formidable and will be reckoned with by season's end. Some of the freshmen were quite impressive v Rowan.

Quote from: BlueJay95 on September 08, 2025, 01:53:40 PMThey said on the broadcast that it hadn't happened since 1987. I still think Messiah is quite formidable and will be reckoned with by season's end. Some of the freshmen were quite impressive v Rowan.

If not this year then I agree within the next year or two for the same reason.  The results may not be in their favor and maybe the execution is a step or two short so far.  But they still move with purpose and deliberation and are fun to watch.

Not sure where to post this so happy to move if there is a better spot.  Only watched a handful of games so the sample size is small and can be taken with a grain of salt accordingly.  Here goes...

Should we expect the quality of play this year overall to be significantly less than last year?  If so is this the result of the extra year eligibility expiration?

Quote from: Freddyfud on September 08, 2025, 11:21:12 PMNot sure where to post this so happy to move if there is a better spot.  Only watched a handful of games so the sample size is small and can be taken with a grain of salt accordingly.  Here goes...

Should we expect the quality of play this year overall to be significantly less than last year?  If so is this the result of the extra year eligibility expiration?

Good question and maybe too early to tell. D3 with the D1 roster limitations may get better, but may take a while. Plus bringing in int'l players which will only increase imo may impact quality. 

I think maybe we do not know who the really good teams are yet. I think of few of the legacy teams of the past couple of years are in transition somewhat due to the rolling off of 5th year players. The start of the year is always a bit rough with the integration of new players as coaches figure out their rotations.

If you've wanted to watch Babson, but didn't because of the Flo Sports paywall, this is your chance.  They are down in Atlanta playing two games at Oglethorpe. 

HALF:  Covenant 2 - Babson 0

Whoever said that Covenant is a team to keep an eye on was right.  They scored in the 2nd and 19th minutes of the first half and have given Babson a hill to climb in the second half.

UPDATE:  Covenant 2 - Babson 1

Babson cuts the deficit in half on a corner kick to the front post in the 52nd minute.  It looked like it might have been an own goal because the Covenant player at the post took a swing at it and it went in, but I couldn't be sure from the stream.

[70th minute] Babson growing into the game.  Covenant's GK or defense has had to make several emergency actions on balls slipped through to a Babson striker in the box 1 v. 1 with the keeper.

UPDATE Covenant 2 - Babson 2

Babson gets the equalizer on another corner as a Babson player beats the Covenant GK to a second header in the 83rd minute.  In that instance, I think the GK tried to make a basket catch when he could have claimed the ball by going up with his arms outstretched.  Not sure what he was thinking.  At 6'4", you're basically forfeiting your natural advantage with a basket catch in traffic. 

FINAL:  Covenant 2 - Babson 2

Babson comes back to snag a tie.  I thought Covenant got panicky way too early and often toward the end, especially after Babson tied it up.  It's one thing to just boot the ball up the field, but they were booting the ball up in the air with no one on them and not clearing it with still minutes left and the Babson offense in the Covenant defensive third.  On the other hand, #8 for Covenant, Henry Parker, collected a ball nicely toward the end and very expertly rinsed several Babson players with a bunch of savvy moves and body positioning to secure a dangerous free kick.  Parker had a goal and an assist in this game and looks dangerous.  He's listed as from NY, but apparently played several years in Spain in pro academies and looks the part.

Interesting result between #2 ranked Rowan and Scranton.  Scranton got the very early goal in the 3rd minute and then held off Rowan until it got the tying goal in the 72nd minute.  Rowan couldn't find the winner in the last 19 minutes of the 1-1 tie.

After a schedule starting with NYU, Franklin & Marshall, Gettysburg, Messiah and Cortland to start the season, I'm not sure Rowan would have predicted Scranton would be the first team to take points from them this season.  Scranton is 2-0-2 and looking tough.

Quote from: Kuiper on September 13, 2025, 09:37:57 PMInteresting result between #2 ranked Rowan and Scranton.  Scranton got the very early goal in the 3rd minute and then held off Rowan until it got the tying goal in the 72nd minute.  Rowan couldn't find the winner in the last 19 minutes of the 1-1 tie.

After a schedule starting with NYU, Franklin & Marshall, Gettysburg, Messiah and Cortland to start the season, I'm not sure Rowan would have predicted Scranton would be the first team to take points from them this season.  Scranton is 2-0-2 and looking tough.

Combined record of NYU, F&M, Messiah... 1-12. Who would have thought  :o

Messiah Men's Soccer might need divine intervention — unless the Messiah's suiting up, it's going to be a long season.

17 goals let up over 5 games wow. 3.4 goals per game. Last year Messiah only gave up 17 goals over 22 games.

F&M isn't solved but played well enough to win the Boot over Etown. FYI, last 5 years, F&M won 4 by 1-0 and last year it was 0-0.

Messiah gets Etown on Wednesday.

W&L is also winless 0-2-3, but play Regent next weekend so that should change.

Nice give and go between Modiano and Martinez at the top of the box to get Babson the W @ Oglethorpe 1-0.

Babson started 4 freshmen and 3 sophs after massive losses through graduation. FYs Boecher and Hanrahan already look like they belong.

The back line has been a bit shaky but has been playing without 3-year starter Araujo and center back Thiam.  I'd feel a lot better with them back.

Anyone familiar with messiah know whats happening? They've started with a tough schedule and soccer is fickle game but can anyone point to the last time they were 0-5 to start the season?

They haven't had a "bad" season since 1976 when they went 5-7-1. 2 years later they won the NCCA championship. 10 years later they beat E-town for their first ever NCAA playoff win.

The first three years, the program only had one W per season. So... Maybe back in the late 60s?

I mean, I could be wrong, but other than last year's 6 losses (which was a "down" year for them, as they "only" went 14-6=2, won the MAC-C, and lost in the 2nd round of the NCAA's), you have to go back to 2015 to see 5 losses in a season. And then you'd need to back to 1996, Shoemaker's last year, to see another 5 loss season.

didn't there used to be more of a messiah contingent here?

I'm not giving up on Messiah. May not be their best season, but still plenty of time for Messiah to turn it around. Next 3 or 4 games could be winnable imo.  Afterall, faith is in the name of college!

Home for Etown Marshmallow Bowl great mid week matchup!!

The MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 15, 2025, 08:05:01 PMThe MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Has Messiah been switching things around, playing freshman, etc in recent games?  That's what I've been seeing from some other traditionally strong schools out west who lost a string of non-conference games and now appear to have conceded that they won't have a chance under the NPI of getting a bid unless it's the automatic conference bid.  They appear to be re-setting their goals for conference play and using the last few non-conference games to heal up, rotate some players, and try some things.  Still trying to win, of course, which is important for mentality if nothing else, but doing more things to set themselves up for conference play than to scrap out non-conference wins.

I'm not sure Messiah et al would do anything differently if it was still under the old committee selection process, but I suspect the NPI, being just an algorithm, is very unforgiving if you don't have enough wins no matter how good your strength of schedule is or how great you are trending after a poor start.  In that sense, it would make sense if they have already turned their focus to the conference season and are just viewing the remaining non-conference games as like preseason games.

The irony of Messiah, Mary Washington, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Redlands, Occidental etc being not as strong straight out of the gate is that if they don't pick things up in conference play, a bunch of schools that thought they were going to get a SoS bump playing them under NPI are going to end up empty-handed or hurt by playing them.  By contrast, other schools that thought they were playing an easy schedule might get an SoS bump from unexpected sources.

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 09:06:40 PM

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 15, 2025, 08:05:01 PMThe MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Has Messiah been switching things around, playing freshman, etc in recent games?  That's what I've been seeing from some other traditionally strong schools out west who lost a string of non-conference games and now appear to have conceded that they won't have a chance under the NPI of getting a bid unless it's the automatic conference bid.  They appear to be re-setting their goals for conference play and using the last few non-conference games to heal up, rotate some players, and try some things.  Still trying to win, of course, which is important for mentality if nothing else, but doing more things to set themselves up for conference play than to scrap out non-conference wins.

I'm not sure Messiah et al would do anything differently if it was still under the old committee selection process, but I suspect the NPI, being just an algorithm, is very unforgiving if you don't have enough wins no matter how good your strength of schedule is or how great you are trending after a poor start.  In that sense, it would make sense if they have already turned their focus to the conference season and are just viewing the remaining non-conference games as like preseason games.

The irony of Messiah, Mary Washington, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Redlands, Occidental etc being not as strong straight out of the gate is that if they don't pick things up in conference play, a bunch of schools that thought they were going to get a SoS bump playing them under NPI are going to end up empty-handed or hurt by playing them.  By contrast, other schools that thought they were playing an easy schedule might get an SoS bump from unexpected sources.

Is that true after last year though?  Hamilton and Bowdoin got in with bad records because soccer is the only sport to have SOS dialed up to .85.

Quote from: stlawus on September 15, 2025, 10:48:40 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 09:06:40 PM

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 15, 2025, 08:05:01 PMThe MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Has Messiah been switching things around, playing freshman, etc in recent games?  That's what I've been seeing from some other traditionally strong schools out west who lost a string of non-conference games and now appear to have conceded that they won't have a chance under the NPI of getting a bid unless it's the automatic conference bid.  They appear to be re-setting their goals for conference play and using the last few non-conference games to heal up, rotate some players, and try some things.  Still trying to win, of course, which is important for mentality if nothing else, but doing more things to set themselves up for conference play than to scrap out non-conference wins.

I'm not sure Messiah et al would do anything differently if it was still under the old committee selection process, but I suspect the NPI, being just an algorithm, is very unforgiving if you don't have enough wins no matter how good your strength of schedule is or how great you are trending after a poor start.  In that sense, it would make sense if they have already turned their focus to the conference season and are just viewing the remaining non-conference games as like preseason games.

The irony of Messiah, Mary Washington, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Redlands, Occidental etc being not as strong straight out of the gate is that if they don't pick things up in conference play, a bunch of schools that thought they were going to get a SoS bump playing them under NPI are going to end up empty-handed or hurt by playing them.  By contrast, other schools that thought they were playing an easy schedule might get an SoS bump from unexpected sources.

Is that true after last year though?  Hamilton and Bowdoin got in with bad records because soccer is the only sport to have SOS dialed up to .85.

Bowdoin still had a winning record (7-5-5 before the tournament) and had ties against top teams like Tufts (twice) and Conn.  Hamilton also had a winning record (7-6-3 before the tournament) and a win against Williams and ties against Bowdoin and Conn.  I'm no expert, but I think the "good losses" only go so far.  You have to have a bunch of wins and ideally some good ties at least.  Right now, Messiah may be running out of good results it can get before conference play.

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 11:52:30 PM

Quote from: stlawus on September 15, 2025, 10:48:40 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 09:06:40 PM

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 15, 2025, 08:05:01 PMThe MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Has Messiah been switching things around, playing freshman, etc in recent games?  That's what I've been seeing from some other traditionally strong schools out west who lost a string of non-conference games and now appear to have conceded that they won't have a chance under the NPI of getting a bid unless it's the automatic conference bid.  They appear to be re-setting their goals for conference play and using the last few non-conference games to heal up, rotate some players, and try some things.  Still trying to win, of course, which is important for mentality if nothing else, but doing more things to set themselves up for conference play than to scrap out non-conference wins.

I'm not sure Messiah et al would do anything differently if it was still under the old committee selection process, but I suspect the NPI, being just an algorithm, is very unforgiving if you don't have enough wins no matter how good your strength of schedule is or how great you are trending after a poor start.  In that sense, it would make sense if they have already turned their focus to the conference season and are just viewing the remaining non-conference games as like preseason games.

The irony of Messiah, Mary Washington, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Redlands, Occidental etc being not as strong straight out of the gate is that if they don't pick things up in conference play, a bunch of schools that thought they were going to get a SoS bump playing them under NPI are going to end up empty-handed or hurt by playing them.  By contrast, other schools that thought they were playing an easy schedule might get an SoS bump from unexpected sources.

Is that true after last year though?  Hamilton and Bowdoin got in with bad records because soccer is the only sport to have SOS dialed up to .85.

Bowdoin still had a winning record (7-5-5 before the tournament) and had ties against top teams like Tufts (twice) and Conn.  Hamilton also had a winning record (7-6-3 before the tournament) and a win against Williams and ties against Bowdoin and Conn.  I'm no expert, but I think the "good losses" only go so far.  You have to have a bunch of wins and ideally some good ties at least.  Right now, Messiah may be running out of good results it can get before conference play.

Bowdoin was 2-4-4 in conference, and their 7 wins last year were top notch...
U New England (5-8-5)
Colby (6-8-1)
Husson (8-6-4)
Wheaton (6-5-7)
Trinity (2-13)
St. Joseph's ME (8-8-3)
U. So. Maine (2-10-6)

Quote from: Ejay on September 16, 2025, 08:49:48 AM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 11:52:30 PM

Quote from: stlawus on September 15, 2025, 10:48:40 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 09:06:40 PM

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 15, 2025, 08:05:01 PMThe MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Has Messiah been switching things around, playing freshman, etc in recent games?  That's what I've been seeing from some other traditionally strong schools out west who lost a string of non-conference games and now appear to have conceded that they won't have a chance under the NPI of getting a bid unless it's the automatic conference bid.  They appear to be re-setting their goals for conference play and using the last few non-conference games to heal up, rotate some players, and try some things.  Still trying to win, of course, which is important for mentality if nothing else, but doing more things to set themselves up for conference play than to scrap out non-conference wins.

I'm not sure Messiah et al would do anything differently if it was still under the old committee selection process, but I suspect the NPI, being just an algorithm, is very unforgiving if you don't have enough wins no matter how good your strength of schedule is or how great you are trending after a poor start.  In that sense, it would make sense if they have already turned their focus to the conference season and are just viewing the remaining non-conference games as like preseason games.

The irony of Messiah, Mary Washington, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Redlands, Occidental etc being not as strong straight out of the gate is that if they don't pick things up in conference play, a bunch of schools that thought they were going to get a SoS bump playing them under NPI are going to end up empty-handed or hurt by playing them.  By contrast, other schools that thought they were playing an easy schedule might get an SoS bump from unexpected sources.

Is that true after last year though?  Hamilton and Bowdoin got in with bad records because soccer is the only sport to have SOS dialed up to .85.

Bowdoin still had a winning record (7-5-5 before the tournament) and had ties against top teams like Tufts (twice) and Conn.  Hamilton also had a winning record (7-6-3 before the tournament) and a win against Williams and ties against Bowdoin and Conn.  I'm no expert, but I think the "good losses" only go so far.  You have to have a bunch of wins and ideally some good ties at least.  Right now, Messiah may be running out of good results it can get before conference play.

Bowdoin was 2-4-4 in conference, and their 7 wins last year were top notch...
U New England (5-8-5)
Colby (6-8-1)
Husson (8-6-4)
Wheaton (6-5-7)
Trinity (2-13)
St. Joseph's ME (8-8-3)
U. So. Maine (2-10-6)

Exactly.  Bowdoin seems to show the formula for qualifying with the minimum results.

1.  Win ALL the games you are supposed to win
2.  Win/tie a few games against high NPI opponents
3.  Have a high strength of schedule generally so that are no really bad losses
4.  End up with a winning record, even if barely

The question is whether Messiah can achieve all of that without winning its conference.  We don't really know, but CMS could turn out to be a bad loss and I'm not exactly positive how strong the teams it has lost to thus far will end up being.  Salisbury is up in the air, for example, at 2-2-2 and a bunch of decent opponents ahead of them.  Any losses in conference would probably be bad losses, except maybe York.  Also not sure where the strong wins/ties will come from either.  You don't need "strong wins" to do well under NPI, but you need some strong ties and a good win or two, plus wins against the teams you are supposed to beat.

I mean... We're talking about NESCAC vs. MAC-C... The "controversy" around NESCAC getting so many teams in last year comes down to the inherent SOS bump with which the entire league inherits starting every season.

Messiah is likely going to need to capture the AQ to get in, IMO. I know it's early, but 0-5 is a pretty deep hole. These guys don't play 30 games.

Upset Alert - Haverford up 2-0 over Rowan with less than 15 min. Weather and Haverford's horrendous field may be playing a part.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on September 16, 2025, 06:12:23 PMUpset Alert - Haverford up 2-0 over Rowan with less than 15 min. Weather and Haverford's horrendous field may be playing a part.

FINAL:  Haverford 2 - Rowan 0

Rowan also got a red card in the 72nd minute, but that was after they were down 1-0 already on a goal scored in the 48th minute.  Interestingly, Haverford was awful last season, going 2-11-5, but they tied Rowan 0-0 at Rowan.  So, maybe Haverford just has Rowan's number.  Haverford is now 4-0-3 and Rowan, after tying Scranton and losing to Haverford, is in a bit of a mini-dry spell.

A 2-1 win by Washington University over North Park is technically an upset, though the Bears were clearly the better team this afternoon so it did not feel like an upset.  How good might these two teams be?  Hard to know at this point.

Quote from: Kuiper on September 16, 2025, 06:40:28 PM

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on September 16, 2025, 06:12:23 PMUpset Alert - Haverford up 2-0 over Rowan with less than 15 min. Weather and Haverford's horrendous field may be playing a part.

FINAL:  Haverford 2 - Rowan 0

Rowan also got a red card in the 72nd minute, but that was after they were down 1-0 already on a goal scored in the 48th minute.  Interestingly, Haverford was awful last season, going 2-11-5, but they tied Rowan 0-0 at Rowan.  So, maybe Haverford just has Rowan's number.  Haverford is now 4-0-3 and Rowan, after tying Scranton and losing to Haverford, is in a bit of a mini-dry spell.

The only legitimate excuse I noticed was that Rowan was outplayed.

Haverford may very well be out of the relegation zone...

SC.

Quote from: WUPHF on September 16, 2025, 07:34:10 PMA 2-1 win by Washington University over North Park is technically an upset, though the Bears were clearly the better team this afternoon so it did not feel like an upset.  How good might these two teams be?  Hard to know at this point.

I too watched this game and agree. NP was not a top 25 team in this game.

Quote from: Freddyfud on September 16, 2025, 07:54:24 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 16, 2025, 06:40:28 PM

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on September 16, 2025, 06:12:23 PMUpset Alert - Haverford up 2-0 over Rowan with less than 15 min. Weather and Haverford's horrendous field may be playing a part.

FINAL:  Haverford 2 - Rowan 0

Rowan also got a red card in the 72nd minute, but that was after they were down 1-0 already on a goal scored in the 48th minute.  Interestingly, Haverford was awful last season, going 2-11-5, but they tied Rowan 0-0 at Rowan.  So, maybe Haverford just has Rowan's number.  Haverford is now 4-0-3 and Rowan, after tying Scranton and losing to Haverford, is in a bit of a mini-dry spell.

The only legitimate excuse I noticed was that Rowan was outplayed.

Perhaps, the field is actually worse than it looks. Almost no way to connect passes on ground.

Quote from: SKUD on September 16, 2025, 09:09:51 PM

Quote from: WUPHF on September 16, 2025, 07:34:10 PMA 2-1 win by Washington University over North Park is technically an upset, though the Bears were clearly the better team this afternoon so it did not feel like an upset.  How good might these two teams be?  Hard to know at this point.

I too watched this game and agree. NP was not a top 25 team in this game.

I didn't see the game, because I refuse to give Flo my money, but I've already gone on record on D3boards.com as saying that around the NPU athletic department the fact that the Vikings went from no votes in the preseason poll to #8 in the first in-season poll felt a bit ridiculous. For us it really knocked the credibility of the USC poll down a peg or two to see something like that happen.

The Vikings are still a work in progress; there are two starters (one of whom was an All-CCIW first-teamer and the league's First-Year Student-Athlete of the Year last season) who still haven't suited up yet. The talent is there for NPU to be very, very good, but the schedule is such that the Vikings really haven't been seriously challenged until this current road trip. (That's largely what made the massive leap in North Park's poll status so absurd.) The Vikings played a good MSOE team last Wednesday up in Milwaukee and won 2-0; today down in St. Louis they played a Wash U team that's even better than MSOE and lost, 2-1. And this Friday NPU crosses the Cheddar Curtain again and takes on a 4-1 UW-Whitewater team in Whitewater. These are the games that will cumulatively give people a better read on North Park.

I'm disappointed but not entirely surprised that NPU lost today. Playing Wash U in St. Louis has never been an easy proposition; two years ago the Vikings went down to the Gateway City to play the Bears at Francis Olympic Field and had to come from behind in the second half to beat a Wash U team that ended the season with a losing record. I suspect that this will be one of those head-clearing losses for NPU that will make the Vikings work even harder and put all thoughts of coasting to victories out of their heads. (It's a five-hour busride from St. Louis to the North Side of Chicago, so they certainly had time to think about it.) Back in 2017 when the Vikings went all the way to the national championship game, it was a loss to Whitworth on NPU's home pitch early in the season that really galvanized the Vikings to reach another level. There's definitely a possibility that history repeats itself in that regard.

I can't prove it, and I'm certainly not 100% objective where my team is concerned, but I think that, today notwithstanding, the Park is going to have a pretty darned good season.

UPSET ALERT

Roger Williams 1 - Babson 0 (73rd minute)

Field looks like it may be wet (not sure), so the weather may be affecting this game, but interesting to see Roger Williams out-shooting Babson 12-3 (6-1 on goal) with 3 corners to 0 for Babson

Quote from: Kuiper on September 17, 2025, 07:38:32 PMUPSET ALERT

Roger Williams 1 - Babson 0 (73rd minute)

Field looks like it may be wet (not sure), so the weather may be affecting this game, but interesting to see Roger Williams out-shooting Babson 12-3 (6-1 on goal) with 3 corners to 0 for Babson

FINAL:  Roger Williams 1 - Babson 0

Not sure if this is a major upset, but Rogers Williams is now 5-0-1 and Babson suffers its first loss.

Quote from: Kuiper on September 17, 2025, 08:04:39 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 17, 2025, 07:38:32 PMUPSET ALERT

Roger Williams 1 - Babson 0 (73rd minute)

Field looks like it may be wet (not sure), so the weather may be affecting this game, but interesting to see Roger Williams out-shooting Babson 12-3 (6-1 on goal) with 3 corners to 0 for Babson

FINAL:  Roger Williams 1 - Babson 0

Not sure if this is a major upset, but Rogers Williams is now 5-0-1 and Babson suffers its first loss.

On this night RW was unquestionably the better team and deserved the W.  Even after the early second half goal they largely controlled play and dispossessed most every attack through the midfield.  Until the final 10 minutes or so Babson looked very lackluster.  Credit to RW.

Have to say I'm liking all the non-con parity this year.  Should make conference play much more interesting.

Franklin has a win! They've defeated Heidelberg 4-0. ;D  8-)
After being outscored 35-3 in six games this year, and going 0-25-6 since they beat Mount St Joseph 23 1/2 months ago they've finally found the win column. So happy
Hopefully I don't have to wait until 2027 for the next win.

Watched Haverford absolutely dominate #2 Rowan the other day. Team is undefeated heading into conference play. Would attribute much of their success this year to the acquisition of assistant coach Don Norton. Know him from his Camden days, brilliant football mind and is most definitely a large reason for the resurgence of Haverford.

Quote from: HelloMrEvil on September 18, 2025, 02:04:35 PMWatched Haverford absolutely dominate #2 Rowan the other day. Team is undefeated heading into conference play. Would attribute much of their success this year to the acquisition of assistant coach Don Norton. Know him from his Camden days, brilliant football mind and is most definitely a large reason for the resurgence of Haverford.

Definitely out of the relegation zone.  May have an early SC Coach of the Year candidate....

SC.

I watched the stream of the CNU - Trinity game (3-2 to CNU).  Kuiper with good analysis/recap in the Go West thread. Agree with that post -- CNU had a great game plan and executed.  You can see why Trinity is so highly rated -- they should go far if they can tighten up on defense.  CNU could/should have put a couple more in the back of the net.

Nice goal scored up in whitewater:

https://x.com/VikingsNPU/status/1969219523778670844?t=LWWBWxIPMOrH4QqkdkTYqA&s=19

Quote from: Kuiper on September 15, 2025, 09:06:40 PM

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 15, 2025, 08:05:01 PMThe MAC Commonwealth is even worse than normal this year so Messiah will still probably go undefeated in conference play (York could potentially give them a game). 

Has Messiah been switching things around, playing freshman, etc in recent games?  That's what I've been seeing from some other traditionally strong schools out west who lost a string of non-conference games and now appear to have conceded that they won't have a chance under the NPI of getting a bid unless it's the automatic conference bid.  They appear to be re-setting their goals for conference play and using the last few non-conference games to heal up, rotate some players, and try some things.  Still trying to win, of course, which is important for mentality if nothing else, but doing more things to set themselves up for conference play than to scrap out non-conference wins.

I'm not sure Messiah et al would do anything differently if it was still under the old committee selection process, but I suspect the NPI, being just an algorithm, is very unforgiving if you don't have enough wins no matter how good your strength of schedule is or how great you are trending after a poor start.  In that sense, it would make sense if they have already turned their focus to the conference season and are just viewing the remaining non-conference games as like preseason games.

The irony of Messiah, Mary Washington, Franklin & Marshall, St. Lawrence, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Redlands, Occidental etc being not as strong straight out of the gate is that if they don't pick things up in conference play, a bunch of schools that thought they were going to get a SoS bump playing them under NPI are going to end up empty-handed or hurt by playing them.  By contrast, other schools that thought they were playing an easy schedule might get an SoS bump from unexpected sources.

The magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 12:55:24 PMThe magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

When did they start doing VAR in D3 soccer?

Quote from: Ejay on September 20, 2025, 08:07:20 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 12:55:24 PMThe magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

There was a hazing issue that just got resolved this past spring.  Mccarty was suspended from coaching for half of the spring season and an alum was suspended from volunteering with the team during the summer.  I don't think it's coincidence that they're off to such a poor start

A coach with limited ability and creativity , a broken culture, and an arrogance not to know the difference.......yes, not a suprise at all that they are off to the start that they are.

Quote from: BigSoccerFan on September 20, 2025, 09:23:45 PMWhen did they start doing VAR in D3 soccer?

Last year. The stipulation was that the host institution had to be able to supply it. It was of course implemented at the Final Four but several teams used it throughout the year.

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 09:48:34 PMA coach with limited ability and creativity , a broken culture, and an arrogance not to know the difference.......yes, not a suprise at all that they are off to the start that they are.

Interesting takes, Footy. It has been quite a shock to see much Messiah has fallen off from the heights of 2022 and 2023. I do think D3 programs have caught up to Messiah in terms of tactics, playing systems, and recruitment.

On another note - now that we're approaching the midway point in the season...

Which programs across the country are currently playing the best/most exciting brand of soccer? Would love to hear some shoutouts and the reasons why  ;D

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 20, 2025, 09:32:42 PM

Quote from: Ejay on September 20, 2025, 08:07:20 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 12:55:24 PMThe magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

There was a hazing issue that just got resolved this past spring.  Mccarty was suspended from coaching for half of the spring season and an alum was suspended from volunteering with the team during the summer.  I don't think it's coincidence that they're off to such a poor start

Woah. That's pretty heavy stuff. Not what I'd expect from that program.

Further to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 22, 2025, 09:30:35 AM

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 20, 2025, 09:32:42 PM

Quote from: Ejay on September 20, 2025, 08:07:20 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 12:55:24 PMThe magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

There was a hazing issue that just got resolved this past spring.  Mccarty was suspended from coaching for half of the spring season and an alum was suspended from volunteering with the team during the summer.  I don't think it's coincidence that they're off to such a poor start

Woah. That's pretty heavy stuff. Not what I'd expect from that program.

True, but unfortunately it's not the first time that a Christian school's athletic department has had to deal with a hazing scandal. Eight years ago Wheaton's football program had a serious hazing incident that resulted in five arrests and a ton of negative publicity for the school.

IMO, many schools have issues with hazing and not just Christian based colleges. Other unfortunate examples - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Skidmore and Air Force. At least Messiah faced the issue. Many more get swept under the rug. More detail on what happened at Messiah - https://www.messiah.edu/student-engagement-care-and-support/living-in-community/hazing_report_and_information

From a study on D3 hazing - "llan  and  Madden  (2008)  found  that  74%  of  varsity  athlete  respondents indicated  they  participated  in  at  least  one  activity  meeting  the  definition  of  hazing.  Athletes participating  in  lacrosse,  swimming,  and  soccer  experienced  the  highest  percentages  of  hazing (Kerschner & Allan, 2016). The most common hazing behaviors experienced by varsity athletes were participatingin a drinking game (47%),singing or chanting in public at an unrelated event (27%),drinking  large  amounts  of  a  non-alcoholic  beverage  (24%),drinking  large  amounts  of alcohol (23%),and being screamed, yelled, or cursed at by other athletes (21%). More recently, examining  hazing  at  seven  research  universities  in  the  U.S.,  Allan,  Kerschner,and  colleagues (2018) found that varsity athletes (42.7%) were more likely to experience hazing than their peers belonging to fraternities and sororities (38.3%), club sport teams (29.5%), and student leadership organizations  (27.4%).Kerschner  and  Allan  (2021)  concluded  that  athletes  were  more  likely  to experience hazing than their non-athlete peers."

Link to article - https://journals.shareok.org/jheali/ojs/jheali/article/view/29/23

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on September 22, 2025, 01:09:17 PMIMO, many schools have issues with hazing and not just Christian based colleges. Other unfortunate examples - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Skidmore and Air Force. At least Messiah faced the issue. Many more get swept under the rug. More detail on what happened at Messiah - https://www.messiah.edu/student-engagement-care-and-support/living-in-community/hazing_report_and_information

Thanks for that link. It looks like the two Messiah naked kickball games by the men's soccer team and the kiss-a-stranger scavenger hunt by the men's swimming team were fairly small potatoes as hazing incidents go, although they clearly fit the definition of hazing and were dealt with appropriately in the end. The Wheaton football hazing involved physical assault and resulted in felony charges (which were pled down to misdemeanor battery and misdemeanor unlawful restraint), and the five offenders were eventually kicked off the team once the county DA filed the charges. It also appears that the Messiah administration went by the book and took suitable steps to punish the coaches and alumni volunteers involved, whereas Wheaton basically swept the matter under the rug by hiring a consultant to come in and perform a clearly inadequate investigation that led to both blaming the victim and penalizing the players involved with nothing more stringent than one-game suspensions and the requirement to write an essay about what they did wrong. They had been allowed to play almost an entire season with no consequences because the school's dilatory internal investigation and eventual slap-on-the-wrist "punishment" delayed justice and eventually forced local civil authorities to step in.

I cite all that not to drag Wheaton through the mud again -- it's almost a decade in the rear-view mirror now, and I'm sure that the school has since created more appropriate policies for mandating hazing-prevention education and for dealing with hazing complaints -- but to stress that a lot of the onus with regard to hazing actually has to do more with how a school responds to a hazing complaint than to the actual incident itself.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on September 22, 2025, 01:09:17 PMFrom a study on D3 hazing - "llan  and  Madden  (2008)  found  that  74%  of  varsity  athlete  respondents indicated  they  participated  in  at  least  one  activity  meeting  the  definition  of  hazing.  Athletes participating  in  lacrosse,  swimming,  and  soccer  experienced  the  highest  percentages  of  hazing (Kerschner & Allan, 2016). The most common hazing behaviors experienced by varsity athletes were participatingin a drinking game (47%),singing or chanting in public at an unrelated event (27%),drinking  large  amounts  of  a  non-alcoholic  beverage  (24%),drinking  large  amounts  of alcohol (23%),and being screamed, yelled, or cursed at by other athletes (21%). More recently, examining  hazing  at  seven  research  universities  in  the  U.S.,  Allan,  Kerschner,and  colleagues (2018) found that varsity athletes (42.7%) were more likely to experience hazing than their peers belonging to fraternities and sororities (38.3%), club sport teams (29.5%), and student leadership organizations  (27.4%).Kerschner  and  Allan  (2021)  concluded  that  athletes  were  more  likely  to experience hazing than their non-athlete peers."

Link to article - https://journals.shareok.org/jheali/ojs/jheali/article/view/29/23

As bad as the hazing incidents that we're talking about here are concerned, it's the drinking-related hazing incidents that involved forced consumption of alcohol that are the most dangerous; students have died as a result of them. That's one issue that a Christian school is much less likely to encounter, because student-athletes fear getting suspended for drinking (or for facilitating drinking). That's because Christian colleges and universities are invariably dry campuses that have stringent drinking-related punishments. The fact that student-athletes may be more worried about violating common campus rules than about jeopardizing the actual health and safety of their younger peers is wrong-headed, but "wrong-headed" describes a lot of behavior among 18-to-21-year-olds.

A very nice op ed on D3 sports. Worth the read. https://www.startribune.com/mn-college-st-johns-athletics-pride-diii/601476951

Quote from: Footy on September 22, 2025, 10:37:08 AMFurther to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

No. I'm not the 2017 lycoming player. Not remotely close

Just offering a take that I believe has merit.

And while I agree that there have been far worse cases and outcomes of hazing, it is a slippery slope to minimize it. It is wrong, it is illegal, and coaches and universities should be held to a high standard.

Regardless , McCarty is not the wizard folks have historically assumed he was.

Paul Newman would've been all over this situation. Poster certainly seems to be taking a personal approach to critiquing Coach McCarty.

=-=-=-=-=-=

I also want to clarify... My comment about not expecting this from that type of program had zero to do with their Christian-forward environment. More to do with the level of respect that coaching staff has built up over many iterations going back to the guy the field is named after.

Hazing is all about power dynamics. Certainly not something religious schools are immune from.

Not at all meaning to be overly personal. But the buck stops somewhere.  And I think the shift in parity in the division requires change - and one person can direct change.  My take was and is based on the radical shift.

I just looked over this McCarty profile (https://gomessiah.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/coaches/brad-mccarty/406) expecting to see a flash in the pan.  This is anything but.

Assuming his playbook has been the same for 16 years I would bet a majority of other coaches would love to have it. Except the hazing incident of course.  I understand they are off to an unprecedented start this year. What am I missing?

And yea this feels like a job for Superm...I mean PN.

Correct!  not a flash at all....and anyone would die for his playbook- it worked perfectly for 15+ years.  Thats the point. The world has changed.  The program hasn't - seems it needs to because D3 soccer ain't what it used to be.

They've advanced out of the first round of the tournament every year since 2016. How has the game changed from 2021 when they were in the Elite 8? What does he need to be doing differently to keep up with the world's changes? All you've offered is that he didn't adjust the shape and scheme to support McDonald in his 5th year, the same year they went 20-1-1 and McDonald earned his 2nd All-American nod.

This was fun. I bet someone $50 that I could get the Board hyping Messiah even though they started the season 0-5....happened quicker than I thought. Did flush out a hazing scandal along the way too. I should get paid more just for that.

Thank you. Carry on.

For what it's worth, Messiah beat Lancaster Bible 5-0 tonight and is undefeated in its last three games.  Weaker competition than the beginning of the season, but signs of life.

On another note, Augsburg moves to 10-0 on the year after beating Wisconsin River Falls tonight 3-0.  Carver Tierney scored his 10th goal of the year.  Augsburg has scored 31 goals and given up 2 this season.

Financial health of D3 institutions have been part of our recent discussions. IMO, D3 soccer and sports in general will be even more important for many of the schools with respect to enrollment especially with men. It may not be enough though since some or many or most colleges will have to look to cut expenses. Rosters of 24-30 men enrollees may not be enough.

Obv. NESCAC and other elite colleges will not suffer this fate.

From NY Magazine which is paywalled - 

This incoming class is the last big one before a prolonged decade-plus drop off begins.

Starting this year, the graduating classes of high schools across the country are getting smaller, the result of fewer people having children during the Great Recession and the years after. Even after the economy rebounded, the birth rate kept dropping. The COVID pandemic led to another sharp decline.

This is the beginning of what college officials call the "demographic cliff." Higher education is one of the few industries that can predict its future customer base far in advance. When college leaders look at the projections of high-school graduates, they see down arrows only every year through 2041 — by then totaling a 13 percent drop overall to 3.4 million high-school graduates from nearly 3.9 million this year.

Regional four-year institutions in the Northeast and Midwest states face potential applicant pool contractions of 15% or more. Small liberal arts colleges, comprising 40% of the higher education market, are particularly vulnerable. 40% of private colleges posted financial losses in 2023. Top-ranked schools in the US News top 50 are expected to experience minimal impact due to sustained national demand for limited seats.

It's going to be interesting to see how schools in the NE/Midwest increase recruiting in the areas of the country that aren't yet seeing this marked decline in potential college-age students.  Not too long ago I saw a billboard for one of them in the Austin area. 

Quote from: Kuiper on September 22, 2025, 11:10:38 PMFor what it's worth, Messiah beat Lancaster Bible 5-0 tonight and is undefeated in its last three games.  Weaker competition than the beginning of the season, but signs of life.

On another note, Augsburg moves to 10-0 on the year after beating Wisconsin River Falls tonight 3-0.  Carver Tierney scored his 10th goal of the year.  Augsburg has scored 31 goals and given up 2 this season.

Going to be a fascinating matchup on Saturday between Messiah and Mary Wash.

Messiah are 2-5-1 whilst Mary Wash are 3-5. Both teams have had very stiff competition in their non-conference matches thus far. I won't be surprised if this game is a high-scoring, wildcard game.

I haven't actually seen any UMW games this season...are they still running a 3-5-2? Messiah seem to have changed to a 4-4-2 diamond, last I saw (someone correct me if I'm wrong)...

I haven't actually seen any UMW games this season...are they still running a 3-5-2? Messiah seem to have changed to a 4-4-2 diamond, last I saw (someone correct me if I'm wrong)...
[/quote]
UMW seem to be trying a couple of different alignments but Kilbe definitely prefers the 3-5-2. UMW is struggling on the offensive side of the ball. not as creative in the midfield and the wingbacks are not as dynamic as the past few years.

Quote from: Mr_November on September 23, 2025, 10:55:16 AM

Quote from: Kuiper on September 22, 2025, 11:10:38 PMFor what it's worth, Messiah beat Lancaster Bible 5-0 tonight and is undefeated in its last three games.  Weaker competition than the beginning of the season, but signs of life.

On another note, Augsburg moves to 10-0 on the year after beating Wisconsin River Falls tonight 3-0.  Carver Tierney scored his 10th goal of the year.  Augsburg has scored 31 goals and given up 2 this season.

Going to be a fascinating matchup on Saturday between Messiah and Mary Wash.

Messiah are 2-5-1 whilst Mary Wash are 3-5. Both teams have had very stiff competition in their non-conference matches thus far. I won't be surprised if this game is a high-scoring, wildcard game.

I haven't actually seen any UMW games this season...are they still running a 3-5-2? Messiah seem to have changed to a 4-4-2 diamond, last I saw (someone correct me if I'm wrong)...

Not sure about the overall matchup but there will at least be two exciting players to watch.  For me the senior MWU midfielder is one of the best attacking threats in the country.  On the other side is an engine at holding mid.  The sophomore has played all but 45 minutes in 8 matches and just won't lose the ball.

Quote from: Ron Boerger on September 23, 2025, 10:43:23 AMIt's going to be interesting to see how schools in the NE/Midwest increase recruiting in the areas of the country that aren't yet seeing this marked decline in potential college-age students.  Not too long ago I saw a billboard for one of them in the Austin area. 

As to billboard in other areas, John Lahey should be studied with respect to surviving and thriving through marketing. Many may recognize from him the "Quinnipiac Poll." You may not have heard about Quinnipiac Univ, but I'm guessing that you may have heard about their polls just listening to the news. Like it or hate its results, that was a small part of him bringing a really backwater college to beyond a regional powerhouse. He grew Quinnipiac from around 2k to over 10k students. He also embraced a lot of things staid colleges will not look at like marketing aggressively while building infrastructure. Lots and lots to study there.

As to sports, it was D2 and Lahey worked to get it to D1 - best success was when its hockey program won a nat'l championship over Univ. of Minnesota in OT 3-2

the UMW player you reference is #2 Sammy Amarose. He is very difficult to defend 1v1. Seems like a lot of teams a sending 2-3 players at him this year. Last year he played up top with Carter Berg - this year he is dropping deeper to get on the ball.

Anyone who follows college hockey knows Quinnipiac, who won the NCAA championship in 2023.

But your point still stands.

Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 24, 2025, 09:41:39 AMAnyone who follows college hockey knows Quinnipiac, who won the NCAA championship in 2023.

But your point still stands.

Also two time finalists in 2010s. 

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on September 22, 2025, 04:33:58 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 22, 2025, 10:37:08 AMFurther to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

Actual Lycoming fan/player here from that "era". You can go ahead and take your "click bait" somewhere else and leave our team's name out of this conversation.

We had the utmost respect for the Messiah teams of those years. We were the only program to find repeated success against them in the conference and arguably the country during that period. Regardless of where they stand now, we would not/ did not take any digs at them anywhere, much less behind the anonymity of a message board.

We went toe to toe with them during that period... their last two national championships (2013, 2017) ... the MAC Commonwealth Champions in those two years... Lycoming College!

Since McCarty took over in 2009 the only time Messiah didn't win the conference championship... 2013,2015,2017... who won in those years - Lycoming College.

2015 being the only year Messiah didn't win the National Championship or Conference Championship during that run... which is also the only year they didn't make the NCAA tournament during McCarty's tenure... while Lycoming made it to the Sweet 16 before bowing out to eventual National Champions - Amherst.

Tip my cap to Messiah and what McCarty has been able to do for these past 17 years. If anyone could spiteful, it should be any one of the other programs that didn't sniff a championship during that time... not the only team to have success.

UPSET Alert:  Stevenson 1 - Dickinson 1 (81st minute)

Stevenson scored in the 8th minute and then went into a defensive shell, which is one way to slow down Dickinson's forwards.

FINAL:  Stevenson 1 - Dickinson 1

Stevenson, which came into this game with a 3-4 record, ends Dickinson's 6 game winning streak after two ties to open the season at Virginia Wesleyan and Christopher Newport. 

W&L v Roanoke -- W&L looks to be in good form, and the score reflects this. 2-0 at halftime. I don't know how strong Roanoke is, but W&L looks great.

Quote from: Kuiper on September 24, 2025, 06:17:51 PMUPSET Alert:  Stevenson 1 - Dickinson 1 (81st minute)

Stevenson scored in the 8th minute and then went into a defensive shell, which is one way to slow down Dickinson's forwards.

FINAL:  Stevenson 1 - Dickinson 1

Stevenson, which came into this game with a 3-4 record, ends Dickinson's 6 game winning streak after two ties to open the season at Virginia Wesleyan and Christopher Newport. 

It seems as though over the years Stevenson has proven they can be a stubborn side to deal with when they are in the right mood. They might prove a tricky test in conference play for both York and Messiah.

Quote from: RetiredWarrior on September 24, 2025, 03:35:32 PM

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on September 22, 2025, 04:33:58 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 22, 2025, 10:37:08 AMFurther to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

Actual Lycoming fan/player here from that "era". You can go ahead and take your "click bait" somewhere else and leave our team's name out of this conversation.

We had the utmost respect for the Messiah teams of those years. We were the only program to find repeated success against them in the conference and arguably the country during that period. Regardless of where they stand now, we would not/ did not take any digs at them anywhere, much less behind the anonymity of a message board.

We went toe to toe with them during that period... their last two national championships (2013, 2017) ... the MAC Commonwealth Champions in those two years... Lycoming College!

Since McCarty took over in 2009 the only time Messiah didn't win the conference championship... 2013,2015,2017... who won in those years - Lycoming College.

2015 being the only year Messiah didn't win the National Championship or Conference Championship during that run... which is also the only year they didn't make the NCAA tournament during McCarty's tenure... while Lycoming made it to the Sweet 16 before bowing out to eventual National Champions - Amherst.

Tip my cap to Messiah and what McCarty has been able to do for these past 17 years. If anyone could spiteful, it should be any one of the other programs that didn't sniff a championship during that time... not the only team to have success.

Not a dig at anyone in this chain, but thanks for the perspective RW... That's great context.

Quote from: RetiredWarrior on September 24, 2025, 03:35:32 PM

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on September 22, 2025, 04:33:58 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 22, 2025, 10:37:08 AMFurther to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

Actual Lycoming fan/player here from that "era". You can go ahead and take your "click bait" somewhere else and leave our team's name out of this conversation.

We had the utmost respect for the Messiah teams of those years. We were the only program to find repeated success against them in the conference and arguably the country during that period. Regardless of where they stand now, we would not/ did not take any digs at them anywhere, much less behind the anonymity of a message board.

We went toe to toe with them during that period... their last two national championships (2013, 2017) ... the MAC Commonwealth Champions in those two years... Lycoming College!

Since McCarty took over in 2009 the only time Messiah didn't win the conference championship... 2013,2015,2017... who won in those years - Lycoming College.

2015 being the only year Messiah didn't win the National Championship or Conference Championship during that run... which is also the only year they didn't make the NCAA tournament during McCarty's tenure... while Lycoming made it to the Sweet 16 before bowing out to eventual National Champions - Amherst.

Tip my cap to Messiah and what McCarty has been able to do for these past 17 years. If anyone could spiteful, it should be any one of the other programs that didn't sniff a championship during that time... not the only team to have success.

Not a dig at anyone in this chain, but thanks for the perspective RW... That's great context.

RetiredWarrior had me reflecting upon some of those elite Lycoming teams in the prime days of Nate Gibboney. Their run in 2017 was quite something. They beat Messiah (at Messiah) in the MAC Commonwealth Championship and then went on to win their first round NCAA match against Lehmann, 2-1.

Lycoming then lost in the second round of the NCAAs to #12 ranked Drew (who were 21-0-1 that season) off a direct free kick in the 74th minute. Shots were 10-3 in favor of Lyco in the first half, and 12-4 in favor of Drew in the second half. Seems to have been a real battle, as there were 5 yellow cards, 2 red cards, 20 fouls for Drew, 23 fouls for Lyco. Lyco finished that season with a program record 19 wins.

Quote from: Mr_November on September 25, 2025, 10:55:04 AMRetiredWarrior had me reflecting upon some of those elite Lycoming teams in the prime days of Nate Gibboney. Their run in 2017 was quite something. They beat Messiah (at Messiah) in the MAC Commonwealth Championship and then went on to win their first round NCAA match against Lehmann, 2-1.

Lycoming then lost in the second round of the NCAAs to #12 ranked Drew (who were 21-0-1 that season) off a direct free kick in the 74th minute. Shots were 10-3 in favor of Lyco in the first half, and 12-4 in favor of Drew in the second half. Seems to have been a real battle, as there were 5 yellow cards, 2 red cards, 20 fouls for Drew, 23 fouls for Lyco. Lyco finished that season with a program record 19 wins.

Yes—absolutely. Initial post was not meant to be a dig at all—just a silly side comment from the initial post regarding Messiah and the interesting comments from that section.

Utmost respect for Gibboney and his Lyco days—and current days as he has really turned York around almost immediately and made them a force—almost nationally at this point.

Just wanted to clear the air about some odd Messiah comments with some comedic relief...now back to the main content

Thanks

Good candidate for runaway team this year?  Emory.  Lights out vs. Sewanee in the first half so far with a Cubeddu hatty.

He's still playing?! 

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 27, 2025, 07:43:08 PMHe's still playing?! 

grad student

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 27, 2025, 07:43:08 PMHe's still playing?! 

Playing is an understatement based on his first half performance.  And it is difficult to pick which of the 3 goals was the best.  All were impressive.

Edit: and he just scored a fourth.

and the fourth was the best IMHO, a 30 yard screamer into upper 90. He had an amazing night.

Good for him and good for Emory but dude's gotta be close to his mid 20's at this point lol

Probably 23ish like the rest of his class.

He turns 25 in October

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 28, 2025, 11:04:23 AMHe turns 25 in October

A child compared to the 58 year-old freshman defensive lineman at Lycoming (https://www.wvia.org/news/local/2025-09-28/tackling-his-dream-58-year-old-freshman-joins-lycoming-college-football-team-inspires-teammates) this season

Quote"It's a little more challenging than what I had anticipated, and I didn't come into this naive ... Whether you're 18 or 58, you better have a little bit of crazy in you to step out on this field," he said. "This is college football, and it's real, and it's live contact, and it's physical, and it's tough."

Cillo spent 33 years plowing streets, fixing roads and maintaining parks in Williamsport before retirement. He's sore now, but the criminal justice major is living his dream that took four decades to achieve.

If Cillo plays a snap this season, he'll be one of the oldest to ever play in a college football game. The NCAA has no age limits for Division III sports. In 2009, a 61-year-old kicked an extra point for Austin College in Texas. A 59-year-old played linebacker for Sul Ross State University in Texas in 2007.

Well, there's been plenty of talk in this thread about Messiah and Lyco. Fear not D3 Sports Fans -- these two will meet on Wednesday in Grantham, 7:00 PM!

Lyco are 3-2-3 and coming into this matchup with wins over Mount Aloysius, Gettysburg, and John Carroll. They tied Catholic on 1-1 on Saturday.

Are Scranton going to a force to be reckoned with come November?

The Royals have conceded 1 goal this season, and that was against Rowan (sorry for cross-posting, I mentioned this in another thread). With how stout Scranton's defense is, It's hard to imagine them being an easy out. They have incredible height and physicality and they press with tremendous discipline.

Quick question - is it at all typical fro D3 schools to play D1 in soccer (and not as an exhibition game)?   Was surprised to see Hope played at #23 Notre Dame on Tuesday, losing 3-2 on an ND goal at the 82:36 mark. 

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 02, 2025, 12:13:29 PMQuick question - is it at all typical fro D3 schools to play D1 in soccer (and not as an exhibition game)?   Was surprised to see Hope played at #23 Notre Dame on Tuesday, losing 3-2 on an ND goal at the 82:36 mark. 

Don't know if it's common, but UMW has played at UVA the last couple of years. UMW entered last years game at 15-0-1, went up 2-0 early but lost 4-2.

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 02, 2025, 12:13:29 PMQuick question - is it at all typical fro D3 schools to play D1 in soccer (and not as an exhibition game)?  Was surprised to see Hope played at #23 Notre Dame on Tuesday, losing 3-2 on an ND goal at the 82:36 mark. 

It has happened more over the last few years, but it is not typical.  For example, Duke played Averett on Tuesday, the same day as ND played Hope, Boston College played Dean, Portland played Lewis & Clark, and VMI played Warren Wilson, all earlier this year, Indiana plays Hanover on 10/17, Eastern Illinois played University of Chicago in a regular season game for them in 2024, Incarnate Word played Trinity University and they tied 1-1 in 2023.  DI changed the rules to allow schools to play one non-DI opponent a year in a game that counts as an official game in the standings and for player stats, but not for NCAA tournament qualification.  Most schools don't do it (and don't do it against DIII teams), but some do it to get an extra home game and to give their bench players a chance to get official playing time.

Quote from: Kuiper on October 02, 2025, 01:21:16 PM

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 02, 2025, 12:13:29 PMQuick question - is it at all typical fro D3 schools to play D1 in soccer (and not as an exhibition game)?  Was surprised to see Hope played at #23 Notre Dame on Tuesday, losing 3-2 on an ND goal at the 82:36 mark. 

It has happened more over the last few years, but it is not typical.  For example, Duke played Averett on Tuesday, the same day as ND played Hope, Boston College played Dean, Portland played Lewis & Clark, and VMI played Warren Wilson, all earlier this year, Indiana plays Hanover on 10/17, Eastern Illinois played University of Chicago in a regular season game for them in 2024, Incarnate Word played Trinity University and they tied 1-1 in 2023.  DI changed the rules to allow schools to play one non-DI opponent a year in a game that counts as an official game in the standings and for player stats, but not for NCAA tournament qualification.  Most schools don't do it (and don't do it against DIII teams), but some do it to get an extra home game and to give their bench players a chance to get official playing time.

VMI is pretty much a D3 team. Just really bad for many years.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on October 02, 2025, 01:27:21 PM

Quote from: Kuiper on October 02, 2025, 01:21:16 PM

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 02, 2025, 12:13:29 PMQuick question - is it at all typical fro D3 schools to play D1 in soccer (and not as an exhibition game)?  Was surprised to see Hope played at #23 Notre Dame on Tuesday, losing 3-2 on an ND goal at the 82:36 mark. 

It has happened more over the last few years, but it is not typical.  For example, Duke played Averett on Tuesday, the same day as ND played Hope, Boston College played Dean, Portland played Lewis & Clark, and VMI played Warren Wilson, all earlier this year, Indiana plays Hanover on 10/17, Eastern Illinois played University of Chicago in a regular season game for them in 2024, Incarnate Word played Trinity University and they tied 1-1 in 2023.  DI changed the rules to allow schools to play one non-DI opponent a year in a game that counts as an official game in the standings and for player stats, but not for NCAA tournament qualification.  Most schools don't do it (and don't do it against DIII teams), but some do it to get an extra home game and to give their bench players a chance to get official playing time.

VMI is pretty much a D3 team. Just really bad for many years.

They are indeed.  Last season, they listed themselves on their webpage as 5-11-2.  Not good, but not worst DI in the country horrible.  Problem is that two of those wins were against weak D3 teams (Mary Baldwin and Warren Wilson), one was against a team that was in the D3 pathway (Regent), and one was against a D2 team (Emory & Henry).  This season, they have two wins, one of which is against Warren Wilson.

Quote from: Kuiper on October 02, 2025, 02:05:45 PMThey are indeed.  Last season, they listed themselves on their webpage as 5-11-2.  Not good, but not worst DI in the country horrible.  Problem is that two of those wins were against weak D3 teams (Mary Baldwin and Warren Wilson), one was against a team that was in the D3 pathway (Regent), and one was against a D2 team (Emory & Henry).  This season, they have two wins, one of which is against Warren Wilson.

VMI's athletic department has always been a bit hit or miss, mostly miss. Comes with being a public military focused school I suspect. They used to play W&L in a lot of men's sports back in the day, but in the noughts they phased almost all of it out. W&L men's soccer was 25-14-4 against VMI, paying annually from 1967-2008 and W&L didn't exactly qualify as a D3 soccer power in many of those years.

W&L was 20-2 against VMI in men's lacrosse from 1986 to 2007. Granted W&L has generally been strong in lacrosse, but that's still D3 vs D1. Men's tennis, 18-2 W&L from 1972 - 2002, 38-5 in men's swimming, a series still ongoing and VMI did win last year. Much to my surprise, 18-2 in baseball, ended in 2002.

Anyway, the Rats do hold a 3-0 advantage in men's basketball from the 80s, and they are 14-2-1 against us in football, however the last game was in 1902. So weird since the schools are next door and W&L played everyone from Florida to Wyoming and just about all the big public colleges in the area from the 20s through the 50s. I don't know the story of why they never played again after 1902, but I bet there is something. VMI are also 11-2 against us in wrestling, last match in 1985.

VMI went coed even more recently than W&L, so there wouldn't be much more than 30 years of history, and our women's teams generally tend to be more successful, comparatively, then the men. Women's soccer has never played VMI in a competitive match. In fact, the only matchups I could find were swimming in an ongoing series where W&L is 11-0. Nothing for field hockey, volleyball, basketball, tennis, etc.

Quote from: VASoccerDad on October 02, 2025, 01:14:10 PM

Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on October 02, 2025, 12:13:29 PMQuick question - is it at all typical fro D3 schools to play D1 in soccer (and not as an exhibition game)?   Was surprised to see Hope played at #23 Notre Dame on Tuesday, losing 3-2 on an ND goal at the 82:36 mark. 

Don't know if it's common, but UMW has played at UVA the last couple of years. UMW entered last years game at 15-0-1, went up 2-0 early but lost 4-2.

went down 3-0 early with a really bad OG. came back to make it 3-2 & forced UVA to bring back on some starters. UMW starters did not play full minutes so it was a very good showing. UVA players admitted that they did no advance prep work (no film review for example) and were not prepared for a competitive match

Most D1 programs pay D3 programs to play. Easy way to of course get wins, but also play more guys, boost stats. 

From a D3 standpoint, you receive money, players can say they played against a D1 team, and in rare cases, can push them to an uncomfortable point! Mary Wash vs UVA and now Hope vs ND are examples!

In other news -

Surprise, surprise, surprise! I was listening in my car to 2Way youtube channel which is great! Low and behold "Paul from Princeton"'s voice came out of the fog. Took me about a minute or so to put it together.

Great job SimpleCoach, but was a bit disappointed that you did not introduce yourself as the "King of D3 Soccer!" plus perfect chance to promo the SimpleCoach empire!! ABC, ABC SimpleCoach!

Around the 43th min. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZWqbF5V4wE

I thought this was kind of cool.  Brevard College announced  (https://bctornados.com/news/2025/10/8/mens-soccer-upcoming-mens-soccer-broadcasts-to-be-simulcast-in-spanish-and-portuguese.aspx)that it will be simulcasting some of its men's soccer games in Spanish and Portuguese.  I guess if you're going to bring in students from other countries around the world and their friends and family may be watching, then it makes sense to allow them to listen to it in their native languages.

QuoteThe Brevard College Department of Athletics is excited to announce that upcoming BC men's soccer broadcasts will be simulcast in Spanish and in Portuguese.
 
BC reserves men's soccer's upcoming match this Thursday evening at 7 p.m. vs. Lenoir-Rhyne University will be simulcast in Spanish by BC student broadcaster and men's soccer student-athlete Martin Moguel Aguilar on the Official YouTube Channel of BC Athletics. Later in the month, BC's first team match against Warren Wilson on Wednesday, October 22, at 7 p.m. will be simulcast in Portuguese by BC student broadcaster Matheus Mateus. Each match will also be available in English.
 
"This opportunity highlights the incredible initiative and talent of our students," commented BC Assistant Professor of Communication/Program Coordinator Dr. Charles Ecenbarger. "For Martin and Matheus to lead bilingual broadcasts at the collegiate level is not only a first for Brevard but also an important step in preparing them for global careers in sports media. I'm proud to see our Communication students taking on projects that set new standards and showcase the value of their work."
 
The simulcasts highlight the international diversity of the BC men's soccer program, which features representation from 22 different countries across its first team and reserve squads.

Only 22 countries??

Mid-week games in the middle of the semester are apparently brutal

Lynchburg 5 - Messiah 1
Montclair State 5 - DeSales 0 (at Half)
Disckinson 6 - Lebanon Valley 1

Quote from: Kuiper on October 08, 2025, 08:04:58 PMMid-week games in the middle of the semester are apparently brutal

Lynchburg 5 - Messiah 1
Montclair State 5 - DeSales 0 (at Half)
Disckinson 6 - Lebanon Valley 1

Dickinson continues to roll. May not be the best team, but playing well esp on offense.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on October 08, 2025, 08:44:45 PMDickinson continues to roll. May not be the best team, but playing well esp on offense.

Sets up an interesting match up this weekend between undefeated Haverford and undefeated Dickinson.

Quote from: Ejay on October 08, 2025, 09:11:38 PM

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on October 08, 2025, 08:44:45 PMDickinson continues to roll. May not be the best team, but playing well esp on offense.

Sets up an interesting match up this weekend between undefeated Haverford and undefeated Dickinson.

For sure, had to look where it will be. At Dickinson and its grass is much better than in previous years. Fords grass is horrible (in Charles Barkley's voice). So Fords won't have that going for them. Should be Dickinson imo. While winning at home against Rowan they are playing better than last year, but not enough.

Woof Messiah...

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 08, 2025, 09:32:07 PMWoof Messiah...

I mean, yeah, but Lynchburg is 9-0-2 right now. Not the hardest schedule, but they are making it count. Huge backloaded ODAC schedule with Va Wes and H-SC, then Roanoke and W&L, with just a pair of easy games scattered in.

But yeah, Messiah is ugly right now.

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on October 08, 2025, 09:17:16 PM

Quote from: Ejay on October 08, 2025, 09:11:38 PM

Quote from: SierraFD3soccer on October 08, 2025, 08:44:45 PMDickinson continues to roll. May not be the best team, but playing well esp on offense.

Sets up an interesting match up this weekend between undefeated Haverford and undefeated Dickinson.

For sure, had to look where it will be. At Dickinson and its grass is much better than in previous years. Fords grass is horrible (in Charles Barkley's voice). So Fords won't have that going for them. Should be Dickinson imo. While winning at home against Rowan they are playing better than last year, but not enough.

Brand new Bermuda grass field at Dickinson Park this year.

Quote from: jknezek on October 08, 2025, 10:09:51 PM

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 08, 2025, 09:32:07 PMWoof Messiah...

I mean, yeah, but Lynchburg is 9-0-2 right now. Not the hardest schedule, but they are making it count. Huge backloaded ODAC schedule with Va Wes and H-SC, then Roanoke and W&L, with just a pair of easy games scattered in.


First time since 1987 that Messiah gave up 5 goals.......first time since 1993 that they lost 7 games...and still some season to play.  Double woof.  Where's the magic Coach McCarty?????

But yeah, Messiah is ugly right now.

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 06:31:44 AM

Quote from: jknezek on October 08, 2025, 10:09:51 PM

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 08, 2025, 09:32:07 PMWoof Messiah...

I mean, yeah, but Lynchburg is 9-0-2 right now. Not the hardest schedule, but they are making it count. Huge backloaded ODAC schedule with Va Wes and H-SC, then Roanoke and W&L, with just a pair of easy games scattered in.


First time since 1987 that Messiah gave up 5 goals.......first time since 1993 that they lost 7 games...and still some season to play.  Double woof.  Where's the magic Coach McCarty?????

But yeah, Messiah is ugly right now.

Did anyone catch this game on FloSports? Messiah took an early lead and then gave up a pen before half. After that it was curtains for the Falcons. One of Lynchburg's goals was a no-look backheel goal.

Yeah no slight to Lynchburg. I am just curious when the last time Messiah had a season like this.

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 09, 2025, 08:15:50 AMYeah no slight to Lynchburg. I am just curious when the last time Messiah had a season like this.

5-7-1 in 1976.
5-6-0 in 1970.
1-10-0 in 1969.

1967 and 68 were about the same. That's as far back as the program history on the website goes.

If you are looking for the last 7 loss season, assuming they don't lose again, 1993 was 15-7-1.

So far this season and last they've lost 13x. That's more than any 2 year stretch since 79 and 80, when they lost 13 over 2 full seasons. Something tells me this won't be their last loss this year, so that's going to be surpassed.

For Messiah, this is a calamitously bad year, on the heels of a poor year, for them, last year. And I say for them because they still won their conference and made the second round of the tournament. Lots of teams in D3 would consider that a very good season. But for Messiah? Not great. And following it with this dog... well those 23 of 24 years with 18 wins or more is falling into the rearview.

The program has not had a season under .500 since 1976. 1977 was the last year without double digit wins (8-3-2).

For a team like Messiah - championships have been the expectation, and as stated, even though the record was not typical last year, they still won conference, and made it just as far in the NCAA as the better record team in 2023.....This year is by far a greater outlier.  Saying that, and further to some comments made earlier - things have shifted.  Not only is this team not winning championships, I don't think they are  built to win them anymore. They need change - D3 aint what it used to be , the parity is so much greater -and you simply aren't going to be able to muscle the competition with the same play book every year.  While I know that any school would take McCarty's record and success - the point is that he hasn't had to adapt, is literally running his predecessors playbook - and we are seeing the evidence of adapt or die.  He has great talent on his team - so at a certain point you have to question the person doing the X's and O's. Waning success like this will also hurt future recruitment.....and I am not sure if you have heard about McCarty, but he isn't the most warm, fuzzy, affable guy.  We are the best - so don't call us, we will call you isn't going to hunt anymore with recruits......

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 09:42:32 AMFor a team like Messiah - championships have been the expectation, and as stated, even though the record was not typical last year, they still won conference, and made it just as far in the NCAA as the better record team in 2023.....This year is by far a greater outlier.  Saying that, and further to some comments made earlier - things have shifted.  Not only is this team not winning championships, I don't think they are  built to win them anymore. They need change - D3 aint what it used to be , the parity is so much greater -and you simply aren't going to be able to muscle the competition with the same play book every year.  While I know that any school would take McCarty's record and success - the point is that he hasn't had to adapt, is literally running his predecessors playbook - and we are seeing the evidence of adapt or die.  He has great talent on his team - so at a certain point you have to question the person doing the X's and O's. Waning success like this will also hurt future recruitment.....and I am not sure if you have heard about McCarty, but he isn't the most warm, fuzzy, affable guy.  We are the best - so don't call us, we will call you isn't going to hunt anymore with recruits......

I think the attacks on record and overall performance of the team thus far is fair and obviously valid, but the blatant and irreverent attacks on someone's personal character is a little bland and personally below what the majority of us are concerned with on this board.

Thank you for the contributions, but I believe your comments would be better suited for a different/less formal discussion board.


Thanks

I guess you could say that Messiah showed cracks for the last 2 or 3 years. Just hope they aren't going away. It's been a great run.

Though not in the same strata, Hop has had a rough time as well with 5 loses right now and against teams they regularly figured out ways to beat. It been over 10 years or so since they lost more 5 games in a season. Another team that has had sustained success is F&M.  They has struggled all season against good teams. Last time F&M lost these many games and not won at least 10 was over 20 years ago. Both theoretically can turn it around with conf. competition, but, imo, the Cent. Conf. has better teams than Messiah's. For both teams, I would say it is talent which both lost a lot of from last year. Now both coaches have to really, really coach.

Hop has Dickinson and Muhlenberg ahead which F&M has already played and were thumped. A week from Saturday, Hop goes to Lancaster and it'll be a totally different type of game. Instead of competing for 1st place in the Cent. Conf. like so many years in a row, it will be to see who keep a chance to make the Cent. Conf. tournament.

Quote from: beavers98 on October 08, 2025, 11:24:27 PMBrand new Bermuda grass field at Dickinson Park this year.

Very, very nice!! I thought so. Previous years it was bad and usually tall. McDaniel still has the best grass on the East Coast. Haverford always was competing with the Muhls for worst grass. The Fords still really bad and substantially affects the quality of play.

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on October 09, 2025, 10:04:06 AM

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 09:42:32 AMFor a team like Messiah - championships have been the expectation, and as stated, even though the record was not typical last year, they still won conference, and made it just as far in the NCAA as the better record team in 2023.....This year is by far a greater outlier.  Saying that, and further to some comments made earlier - things have shifted.  Not only is this team not winning championships, I don't think they are  built to win them anymore. They need change - D3 aint what it used to be , the parity is so much greater -and you simply aren't going to be able to muscle the competition with the same play book every year.  While I know that any school would take McCarty's record and success - the point is that he hasn't had to adapt, is literally running his predecessors playbook - and we are seeing the evidence of adapt or die.  He has great talent on his team - so at a certain point you have to question the person doing the X's and O's. Waning success like this will also hurt future recruitment.....and I am not sure if you have heard about McCarty, but he isn't the most warm, fuzzy, affable guy.  We are the best - so don't call us, we will call you isn't going to hunt anymore with recruits......

I think the attacks on record and overall performance of the team thus far is fair and obviously valid, but the blatant and irreverent attacks on someone's personal character is a little bland and personally below what the majority of us are concerned with on this board.

Thank you for the contributions, but I believe your comments would be better suited for a different/less formal discussion board.


Thanks

Not at all an attack on character....far from it - just an observation on approach and affect.  Appreciate the feedback - but simply addressing the wholisic situation.  And a "less formal" board - not sure this one caries the Market on formality or decorum.  But again, appreciate the feedback....

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on October 09, 2025, 10:04:06 AM

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 09:42:32 AMFor a team like Messiah - championships have been the expectation, and as stated, even though the record was not typical last year, they still won conference, and made it just as far in the NCAA as the better record team in 2023.....This year is by far a greater outlier.  Saying that, and further to some comments made earlier - things have shifted.  Not only is this team not winning championships, I don't think they are  built to win them anymore. They need change - D3 aint what it used to be , the parity is so much greater -and you simply aren't going to be able to muscle the competition with the same play book every year.  While I know that any school would take McCarty's record and success - the point is that he hasn't had to adapt, is literally running his predecessors playbook - and we are seeing the evidence of adapt or die.  He has great talent on his team - so at a certain point you have to question the person doing the X's and O's. Waning success like this will also hurt future recruitment.....and I am not sure if you have heard about McCarty, but he isn't the most warm, fuzzy, affable guy.  We are the best - so don't call us, we will call you isn't going to hunt anymore with recruits......

I think the attacks on record and overall performance of the team thus far is fair and obviously valid, but the blatant and irreverent attacks on someone's personal character is a little bland and personally below what the majority of us are concerned with on this board.

Thank you for the contributions, but I believe your comments would be better suited for a different/less formal discussion board.


Thanks

Not at all an attack on character....far from it - just an observation on approach and affect.  Appreciate the feedback - but simply addressing the wholisic situation.  And a "less formal" board - not sure this one caries the Market on formality or decorum.  But again, appreciate the feedback....

Blatant, Irreverent?  Sorry had to come back to that.  Not Warm, Fuzzy, or affable.....I woudldant call that irreverent or blatant.  Style and approach  - NOT character.  Affable - "easy to talk to" in the event we weren't clear on that discriptor.  I haven't called him a bad person. I didnt call him unethical, or immoral.....I simply represented that he reserved, not overly warm, not the most forward communicator.....he hasn't had to be - players have flocked to play there.....this , just like the style of play needs adjustment

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 10:26:24 AM

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 10:20:50 AM

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on October 09, 2025, 10:04:06 AM

Quote from: Footy on October 09, 2025, 09:42:32 AMFor a team like Messiah - championships have been the expectation, and as stated, even though the record was not typical last year, they still won conference, and made it just as far in the NCAA as the better record team in 2023.....This year is by far a greater outlier.  Saying that, and further to some comments made earlier - things have shifted.  Not only is this team not winning championships, I don't think they are  built to win them anymore. They need change - D3 aint what it used to be , the parity is so much greater -and you simply aren't going to be able to muscle the competition with the same play book every year.  While I know that any school would take McCarty's record and success - the point is that he hasn't had to adapt, is literally running his predecessors playbook - and we are seeing the evidence of adapt or die.  He has great talent on his team - so at a certain point you have to question the person doing the X's and O's. Waning success like this will also hurt future recruitment.....and I am not sure if you have heard about McCarty, but he isn't the most warm, fuzzy, affable guy.  We are the best - so don't call us, we will call you isn't going to hunt anymore with recruits......

I think the attacks on record and overall performance of the team thus far is fair and obviously valid, but the blatant and irreverent attacks on someone's personal character is a little bland and personally below what the majority of us are concerned with on this board.

Thank you for the contributions, but I believe your comments would be better suited for a different/less formal discussion board.


Thanks

Not at all an attack on character....far from it - just an observation on approach and affect.  Appreciate the feedback - but simply addressing the wholisic situation.  And a "less formal" board - not sure this one caries the Market on formality or decorum.  But again, appreciate the feedback....

Blatant, Irreverent?  Sorry had to come back to that.  Not Warm, Fuzzy, or affable.....I woudldant call that irreverent or blatant.  Style and approach  - NOT character.  Affable - "easy to talk to" in the event we weren't clear on that discriptor.  I haven't called him a bad person. I didnt call him unethical, or immoral.....I simply represented that he reserved, not overly warm, not the most forward communicator.....he hasn't had to be - players have flocked to play there.....this , just like the style of play needs adjustment

Hey...fair enough. Appreciate the description and happy to make amends.

Now back to the "footy"

Thanks

Quote from: jknezek on October 09, 2025, 09:04:29 AM

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 09, 2025, 08:15:50 AMYeah no slight to Lynchburg. I am just curious when the last time Messiah had a season like this.

5-7-1 in 1976.
5-6-0 in 1970.
1-10-0 in 1969.

1967 and 68 were about the same. That's as far back as the program history on the website goes.

If you are looking for the last 7 loss season, assuming they don't lose again, 1993 was 15-7-1.

So far this season and last they've lost 13x. That's more than any 2 year stretch since 79 and 80, when they lost 13 over 2 full seasons. Something tells me this won't be their last loss this year, so that's going to be surpassed.

For Messiah, this is a calamitously bad year, on the heels of a poor year, for them, last year. And I say for them because they still won their conference and made the second round of the tournament. Lots of teams in D3 would consider that a very good season. But for Messiah? Not great. And following it with this dog... well those 23 of 24 years with 18 wins or more is falling into the rearview.

The program has not had a season under .500 since 1976. 1977 was the last year without double digit wins (8-3-2).

Thank you for taking the time to put this into a post!

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 09, 2025, 11:28:06 AM

Quote from: jknezek on October 09, 2025, 09:04:29 AM

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 09, 2025, 08:15:50 AMYeah no slight to Lynchburg. I am just curious when the last time Messiah had a season like this.

5-7-1 in 1976.
5-6-0 in 1970.
1-10-0 in 1969.

1967 and 68 were about the same. That's as far back as the program history on the website goes.

If you are looking for the last 7 loss season, assuming they don't lose again, 1993 was 15-7-1.

So far this season and last they've lost 13x. That's more than any 2 year stretch since 79 and 80, when they lost 13 over 2 full seasons. Something tells me this won't be their last loss this year, so that's going to be surpassed.

For Messiah, this is a calamitously bad year, on the heels of a poor year, for them, last year. And I say for them because they still won their conference and made the second round of the tournament. Lots of teams in D3 would consider that a very good season. But for Messiah? Not great. And following it with this dog... well those 23 of 24 years with 18 wins or more is falling into the rearview.

The program has not had a season under .500 since 1976. 1977 was the last year without double digit wins (8-3-2).

Thank you for taking the time to put this into a post!

Got lots of time. Can't watch my alma mater anymore because I refuse to pay FloSports.

Quote from: Mr_November on October 09, 2025, 07:11:25 AMDid anyone catch this game on FloSports? Messiah took an early lead and then gave up a pen before half. After that it was curtains for the Falcons. One of Lynchburg's goals was a no-look backheel goal.

Ashamed to admit I have FloSports (for now) and did catch about the first 20 minutes of the second half.  Lynchburg goals 3 and 4.  The 3rd goal looked a bit of a howler by the keeper as it hit the ground by his foot but he didn't get down quick enough.  And yes goal 4 was a back heel after a cross that was jammed in the 6 yard box.  More fortuitous than planned.

I did a double take as the game was in Harrisonburg at a place called Horizon's Edge with what appeared to be I-81 in the background.  I thought Lynchburg played home games at their campus field that has the stadium style suites next to it.   

Quote from: Freddyfud on October 09, 2025, 01:20:39 PM

Quote from: Mr_November on October 09, 2025, 07:11:25 AMDid anyone catch this game on FloSports? Messiah took an early lead and then gave up a pen before half. After that it was curtains for the Falcons. One of Lynchburg's goals was a no-look backheel goal.

Ashamed to admit I have FloSports (for now) and did catch about the first 20 minutes of the second half.  Lynchburg goals 3 and 4.  The 3rd goal looked a bit of a howler by the keeper as it hit the ground by his foot but he didn't get down quick enough.  And yes goal 4 was a back heel after a cross that was jammed in the 6 yard box.  More fortuitous than planned.

I did a double take as the game was in Harrisonburg at a place called Horizon's Edge with what appeared to be I-81 in the background.  I thought Lynchburg played home games at their campus field that has the stadium style suites next to it.   

Lynchburg does, but Harrisonburg is a decent neutral site for those teams. 3 hours from Messiah, 2 from Lynchburg. Not bad for a mid-week game.

Just wanted to stop by and note that a post was reported to moderator from this conversation, I reviewed it, and I didn't find anything that needed action. Looks like you guys moderated yourselves nicely.

Quote from: jknezek on October 09, 2025, 09:04:29 AMIf you are looking for the last 7 loss season, assuming they don't lose again, 1993 was 15-7-1.

You buried the lead. The 1993 team still advanced to the Elite 8 that year.

Quote from: Ejay on October 09, 2025, 04:16:51 PM

Quote from: jknezek on October 09, 2025, 09:04:29 AMIf you are looking for the last 7 loss season, assuming they don't lose again, 1993 was 15-7-1.

You buried the lead. The 1993 team still advanced to the Elite 8 that year.

From a certain point of view I can understand that point. But that team had 7 losses all season. This team has 7 already. I don't really think they are comparable.

8-) I'm not trying to kick a debate back up re: Messiah, but since we seem to have rounded into a civil discourse... It's a little early to start describing the program as headed off a cliff. I know that wasn't stated explicitly, but there's a strong implication that time has caught up with the coach and if he "doesn't change his ways" this trend can only continue.

Lot's of reasons a storied program can take a dip like this. And just to reiterate, we are (rather inexplicably) including a team that won its conference and a first round NCAA game, in this "downward" trend.

I am supremely neutral about Messiah. I respect its long-term success, and I'm agnostic about its religious bent. I just think one-off years can happen to lots of respected programs.

Sasho Cirovski hadn't had a losing season since his first year at the helm in 1993. They went something like 4-8-3 (close enough) in 2023 and then rebounded with a winning record in 2024, ending with a loss in the second round of the NCAAs. They are currently 6-0-3 in 2025.

Agree that 1993 and 2025 teams are not comparable, just thought it was interesting that even Messiah's down years were still better than just about everyone.

Also agree that storied programs can have off years, and I don't see this season as the "downfall" of Messiah. Until others in the MAC prove they can consistently step up their game, even a weakened Messiah will have a great chance for the AQ and then anything can happen.

And I'm not saying a cliff is coming either. Just pointing out this could be a half-century bad year by Messiah standards the way it is going. Rarities like that are worth commenting on and putting into context.

Personally I don't care one way or the other about Messiah. I admire the history, but it doesn't matter to me if they get back to a dynasty or join a lot of other programs that had long runs in sports come to an end.

But this season is definitely interest worthy.

concur. I too am a neutral observer

Quote from: Freddyfud on October 09, 2025, 01:20:39 PM

Quote from: Mr_November on October 09, 2025, 07:11:25 AMDid anyone catch this game on FloSports? Messiah took an early lead and then gave up a pen before half. After that it was curtains for the Falcons. One of Lynchburg's goals was a no-look backheel goal.

Ashamed to admit I have FloSports (for now) and did catch about the first 20 minutes of the second half.  Lynchburg goals 3 and 4.  The 3rd goal looked a bit of a howler by the keeper as it hit the ground by his foot but he didn't get down quick enough.  And yes goal 4 was a back heel after a cross that was jammed in the 6 yard box.  More fortuitous than planned.

I did a double take as the game was in Harrisonburg at a place called Horizon's Edge with what appeared to be I-81 in the background.  I thought Lynchburg played home games at their campus field that has the stadium style suites next to it.   

I believe F&M played Lynchburg this year there also. It is close to halfway for both teams.

Quote from: NEPAFAN on October 09, 2025, 05:58:06 PMconcur. I too am a neutral observer

For what it's worth, I think we're all neutral observers of Messiah but probably all appreciate of what they've accomplished. Especially anyone who's ever played D3.

While Messiah's results thus far this season may constitute a historical low for the program, they are not the only traditional powerhouse to be arguably under-performing their lofty standards this year.  Just to name a few:

Messiah
Johns Hopkins
Franklin & Marshall
Redlands
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
Amherst
Mary Washington
Babson
Kenyon

Some of this is cyclical.  In some cases, there may have been school-specific factors, like coaching changes or injuries etc. And, to be fair, some of these schools are still going to make the NCAA tournament this year, so relatively speaking they will be just fine. 

Are there, however, common explanations? Here are a few possibilities

Players: 

Some had valuable 5th years/grad students who departed after last season.  Not only do they miss those players, but those players may have limited development opportunities for younger players or led typical recruits to look at other schools where there was more playing time available. 

Similarly, the roster restrictions at D1 may have led to an infusion of talent across D3, which could have jump-started the ability of other programs to challenge the traditional D3 powers. 

Rule changes: 

The elimination of overtime didn't just increase ties.  It enabled some of these upstart teams to develop defensive playing styles that allowed them to better compete with the top teams and those playing styles may have taken a few years to develop and spread across D3. 

Also, the advent of NPI changed how you might schedule.  Some traditional powers are still playing very strong opponents originally scheduled prior to NPI, while other schools were more easily able to pivot to more NPI-friendly schedules.

Changes in athletic priorities/recruiting:

The increasingly competitive environment for students has led some schools to change their approach to athletics.  In the SCIAC, for example, Pomona College made a major investment in new facilities, athlete-only weight room, etc, started recruiting nationally while the old coach was on medical leave, and hired a new coach from DII.  Whittier pivoted to a much more aggressive recruitment strategy for international students and focused on developing a pipeline to Sweden.  Both schools are starting to see returns on those investments and they are starting to challenge traditional conference powers like CMS and Redlands.

Quote from: Kuiper on October 09, 2025, 08:03:57 PMWhile Messiah's results thus far this season may constitute a historical low for the program, they are not the only traditional powerhouse to be arguably under-performing their lofty standards this year.  Just to name a few:

Messiah
Johns Hopkins
Franklin & Marshall
Redlands
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
Amherst
Mary Washington
Babson
Kenyon

Some of this is cyclical.  In some cases, there may have been school-specific factors, like coaching changes or injuries etc. And, to be fair, some of these schools are still going to make the NCAA tournament this year, so relatively speaking they will be just fine. 

Are there, however, common explanations? Here are a few possibilities

Players: 

Some had valuable 5th years/grad students who departed after last season.  Not only do they miss those players, but those players may have limited development opportunities for younger players or led typical recruits to look at other schools where there was more playing time available. 

Similarly, the roster restrictions at D1 may have led to an infusion of talent across D3, which could have jump-started the ability of other programs to challenge the traditional D3 powers. 

Rule changes: 

The elimination of overtime didn't just increase ties.  It enabled some of these upstart teams to develop defensive playing styles that allowed them to better compete with the top teams and those playing styles may have taken a few years to develop and spread across D3. 

Also, the advent of NPI changed how you might schedule.  Some traditional powers are still playing very strong opponents originally scheduled prior to NPI, while other schools were more easily able to pivot to more NPI-friendly schedules.

Changes in athletic priorities/recruiting:

The increasingly competitive environment for students has led some schools to change their approach to athletics.  In the SCIAC, for example, Pomona College made a major investment in new facilities, athlete-only weight room, etc, started recruiting nationally while the old coach was on medical leave, and hired a new coach from DII.  Whittier pivoted to a much more aggressive recruitment strategy for international students and focused on developing a pipeline to Sweden.  Both schools are starting to see returns on those investments and they are starting to challenge traditional conference powers like CMS and Redlands.

This is very insightful. Thank you, Kuiper!

WRT to Hopkins, it's been covered in the Mid-Atlantic thread and a little here early in the season: It is absolutely about the COVID years and players staying extra years. Combined with a number of grad student transfers. You have a very young and inexperienced team (in terms of overall minutes played at the collegiate level) that is struggling to keep the ball out of the net.

I suspect they'll be back to their winning ways next year, but this is pretty much the definition of a rebuild season.

And that's OK!

I figure that these sorts of "down" seasons or "rebuilding" seasons will become all too common and will continue for different programs each year. The margins in quality between D3 teams will continue to shrink with the growth of the sport in the country, as well as the new rules at the D1 level. There's a bigger pool of quality players for D3 programs to recruit from.

Of course the sky is blue and my point is fairly obvious to most on this board, but it's an exciting prospect to think about how competitive the D3 landscape is now.

Here is an interesting D3 to D1 story I have been following.  Kevin Box was a good goalkeeper for Claremont-Mudd-Scripps for three years.  Not a "special" one though.  No All-SCIAC awards, let alone all region X awards.  Played 27 games over three years, but wasn't a locked-in starter until senior year.  Might have been All-SCIAC if he had stayed last season for a COVID year, but instead entered a grad program at UCLA as a regular student.  In the Spring of his first year, he came out for the UCLA Men's Soccer team as a tryout player, mostly because they had a number of transfers and needed a body in goal.  Then, as things shake out between transfers and recruits, they have an extra spot and offer him.  He takes it as a 3rd string GK. The 1st string GK starts, but the team is losing and he gave up a bunch of goals against UC Irvine.  Then they start the prized freshman recruit, but he is worst in the Big Ten in a number of metrics.  Last game, they turned to Box against Maryland and he pitched a shutout (https://dailybruin.com/2025/10/04/ucla-mens-soccer-holds-back-maryland-for-scoreless-game). 

QuoteIn his debut, graduate student goalkeeper Kevin Box and the Bruins' defense kept the Terrapins scoreless.

"Kevin was phenomenal. Phenomenal. First game, first shut out, first clean sheet," said graduate student defender Schinieder Mimy.

More than that, the UCLA coach said that they wanted to use his superior skills with his feet to control Maryland's press.

QuoteJorden said the decision to start Box was influenced by the goalkeeper's on-ball ability, which helped stifle the Terrapins' attacking options – an arsenal headlined by Masereka, who is tied for sixth-most individual goals in the Big Ten, and forward Stephane Njike, who has recorded a shot on goal in all but two games this season.

He added that Box was able to act as an 11th player in possession for the Bruins.

"They have maybe the two most dynamic attacking players in their two wingers, means that they're going to play some direct stuff behind," Jorden said. "Kevin does a good job athletically in covering and dealing with that. We knew that could be a feature. We also knew that the way they were going to press there was a reality that we were going to need the additional outfield player in possession."

Think about that.  The 6'0" (generously) D3 good, but not great, GK, was the guy they went to because he was better with his feet and better as an extra field player than the two guys who are MLS Academy and USYNT players.  Pretty cool.

Quote from: Kuiper on October 09, 2025, 08:03:57 PMWhile Messiah's results thus far this season may constitute a historical low for the program, they are not the only traditional powerhouse to be arguably under-performing their lofty standards this year.  Just to name a few:

Messiah
Johns Hopkins
Franklin & Marshall
Redlands
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
Amherst
Mary Washington
Babson
Kenyon

Some of this is cyclical.  In some cases, there may have been school-specific factors, like coaching changes or injuries etc. And, to be fair, some of these schools are still going to make the NCAA tournament this year, so relatively speaking they will be just fine. 

Are there, however, common explanations? Here are a few possibilities

Players: 

Some had valuable 5th years/grad students who departed after last season.  Not only do they miss those players, but those players may have limited development opportunities for younger players or led typical recruits to look at other schools where there was more playing time available. 

Similarly, the roster restrictions at D1 may have led to an infusion of talent across D3, which could have jump-started the ability of other programs to challenge the traditional D3 powers. 

Rule changes: 

The elimination of overtime didn't just increase ties.  It enabled some of these upstart teams to develop defensive playing styles that allowed them to better compete with the top teams and those playing styles may have taken a few years to develop and spread across D3. 

Also, the advent of NPI changed how you might schedule.  Some traditional powers are still playing very strong opponents originally scheduled prior to NPI, while other schools were more easily able to pivot to more NPI-friendly schedules.

Changes in athletic priorities/recruiting:

The increasingly competitive environment for students has led some schools to change their approach to athletics.  In the SCIAC, for example, Pomona College made a major investment in new facilities, athlete-only weight room, etc, started recruiting nationally while the old coach was on medical leave, and hired a new coach from DII.  Whittier pivoted to a much more aggressive recruitment strategy for international students and focused on developing a pipeline to Sweden.  Both schools are starting to see returns on those investments and they are starting to challenge traditional conference powers like CMS and Redlands.

With regard to Babson it's what you've listed under Players, although I'd go further (probably implied) that the end of the Covid era has come to the fore.  They are not "down" in the historical sense.  They are either 1-2 in the conference, but no longer have the infusion of 2-4 impactful grad xfers to which they became accustomed.

Quote from: Kuiper on October 10, 2025, 12:00:48 PMHere is an interesting D3 to D1 story I have been following.  Kevin Box was a good goalkeeper for Claremont-Mudd-Scripps for three years.  Not a "special" one though.  No All-SCIAC awards, let alone all region X awards.  Played 27 games over three years, but wasn't a locked-in starter until senior year.  Might have been All-SCIAC if he had stayed last season for a COVID year, but instead entered a grad program at UCLA as a regular student.  In the Spring of his first year, he came out for the UCLA Men's Soccer team as a tryout player, mostly because they had a number of transfers and needed a body in goal.  Then, as things shake out between transfers and recruits, they have an extra spot and offer him.  He takes it as a 3rd string GK. The 1st string GK starts, but the team is losing and he gave up a bunch of goals against UC Irvine.  Then they start the prized freshman recruit, but he is worst in the Big Ten in a number of metrics.  Last game, they turned to Box against Maryland and he pitched a shutout (https://dailybruin.com/2025/10/04/ucla-mens-soccer-holds-back-maryland-for-scoreless-game). 

QuoteIn his debut, graduate student goalkeeper Kevin Box and the Bruins' defense kept the Terrapins scoreless.

"Kevin was phenomenal. Phenomenal. First game, first shut out, first clean sheet," said graduate student defender Schinieder Mimy.

More than that, the UCLA coach said that they wanted to use his superior skills with his feet to control Maryland's press.

QuoteJorden said the decision to start Box was influenced by the goalkeeper's on-ball ability, which helped stifle the Terrapins' attacking options – an arsenal headlined by Masereka, who is tied for sixth-most individual goals in the Big Ten, and forward Stephane Njike, who has recorded a shot on goal in all but two games this season.

He added that Box was able to act as an 11th player in possession for the Bruins.

"They have maybe the two most dynamic attacking players in their two wingers, means that they're going to play some direct stuff behind," Jorden said. "Kevin does a good job athletically in covering and dealing with that. We knew that could be a feature. We also knew that the way they were going to press there was a reality that we were going to need the additional outfield player in possession."

Think about that.  The 6'0" (generously) D3 good, but not great, GK, was the guy they went to because he was better with his feet and better as an extra field player than the two guys who are MLS Academy and USYNT players.  Pretty cool.

Love it.  Another D3 to D1 story is Adam Carter, Messiah's stand out GK the last two seasons.  He transferred to UConn.  While serving in a reserve role, impressive shift to a highly regarded program with a history of producing exceptional GKs.

Quote from: Kuiper on October 09, 2025, 08:03:57 PMWhile Messiah's results thus far this season may constitute a historical low for the program, they are not the only traditional powerhouse to be arguably under-performing their lofty standards this year.  Just to name a few:

Messiah
Johns Hopkins
Franklin & Marshall
Redlands
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
Amherst
Mary Washington
Babson
Kenyon

Based on NCAA.com the median number of seasons for all of the head coaches on the list above is 23.  The median number of seasons for coaches of the current NPI top 10 teams? (based on games thru 10/5) 12

for Mary Washington it is really clear the reason for the drop. They graduated 19 players that garnered 95% of the minutes. Only two returning starters (Macek & Amarose) and 2 other players that played measurable minutes (Hoskins, Valoyi). With just 6 seniors and 4 juniors on the roster it is a young squad.