Quote from: FatalImpact on September 25, 2007, 12:56:37 AM
I know MY statements are factual.....I played in this conference and watch it on a weekly basis.....You have said you don't look at or more or less care about IBFC football, you have no factual basis and you spout your opinion and say its fact, You know I'm right and I'm inclined to agree that this is most likely Fat Pongo.....Welcome back

Just because I do not follow the conference on a weekly basis as you do does not mean I am not aware of the coaching situation at Benedictine, and how it has been for the past two years.

I've posted facts. If you can't handle them, then I'm sorry. Cooper should be gone.

Quote from: TBaggins on September 25, 2007, 04:14:53 AM

Yes Pongo, indeed there are many posters that have a similar opinion of you...the opinion that you are a pathetic douchebag who loves attention on message boards because he can't get through normal human contact.

And further, I think I finally get it. You have an "unnatural" love for Jon Cooper that you just can't seem reconcile. You try to supress that love as much as you can, and hide it by making these posting, but you still can't shake it. It keeps you up at night. It's ok Pongo, you can come out of the closet, nobody will make fun of you.

Your responses are pathetic. I really have no response to them. Your attempt at humor is beyond sad. Also, it leads me to believe that you are a homosexual when you have to use the "come out of the closet" line. Are we displacing again?  Cry?

Quote from: bufan on September 25, 2007, 11:49:09 AM
Wow, some tension on here.  I do not know who AYKM is but again, having played under all 3 coaches I would say cooper prepares very hard.  If you have looked at the numbers the defense isnt bad, they are on the field alot, resulting in the lopsided stats.  Not saying it shouldnt be better, but the offesne is abysmal.  Maybe action in that area is required, not necessarily the head coach.  FYI, there are only 6 players that played for Murray, Mitchell, and Cooper.  So AYKM is not one of them.

However, a couple years ago, BU did beat CUC with only like 34 players dressed.  That is not to rub anything in but we always said to ourselves as players, what if we had 100 guys on the team, we would be pretty decent.  Well i think we saw the result of that last saturday.  Big numbers does not necessarily translate into wins.

It does appear CUC will go 3-0 t start conference.  They looked pretty good and the QB weeks did not even play due to injury.  I think they can beat EC and mac which would be substancial progress.  They do look different then past CUC team i will admit.

Looking at the stats, the defense isn't bad?

30 ppg
Over 1200 yards.

That's bad, especially considering NCC and Elmhurst both let up on BU and didn't have all of their starters in toward the end of the game. Add the fact that one of the games was against North Park, and yes, the defense is bad.

Also, what action is required would you say? You say the head coach should not be fired, then what should happen?

"They look different than past Curf teams." Come on. How many more excuses can you give the team? It's come to the point where you guys are trying to hard to cover Cooper's ass that you're failing to realize one thing: The IBC is terrible. How much credit can possibly be given to other teams?  

Quote from: WhatDoIKnow on September 25, 2007, 07:12:07 PM
AYKM,

It appears you know it all and thus I would like to know who are your top candidates to replace Jon Cooper and how you would turn the program around.

But before we get to read another disertation, please keep in mind the following:

When Jeff Hand arrived at BU in 98 and became the HC for the 99 and 00 seasons, BU had not posted back to back winning seasons since 88 and 89.  When Hand put the program in a tough situation by leaving in the summer of 01, BU out of necessity turned to Murray and his dismal track record at Dubuque.  Murray left the program after the 02 season to sell supplements and BU turned to Mitchell and his poor track records at St Joseph HS (13-23) and NC (8-12 as an asst & RECRUITING COORDINATOR).  Mitchell was fired following the 04 season when it was obvious the program had taken another step back with their record, talent and numbers.

Since such time, BU hired Jon Cooper based on his track record as a DC at AU and built an athletic facility, which Augie, Wheaton, Elmhurst, IWU, Carthage, CUW, Chicago, North Park, CUC, etc., has or built as well.  Cooper made progress in his first two seasons despite truly having only on recruiting class (his sophomores).  I can understand your frustation with the 07 season (2 blowouts and a loss to CUC).  I don't understand how anyone can expect to have a successful year record wise when you turn to young players to make-up most of your team.

The only change I would make would be at the OC position.  Like BUs previous HCs, how can you expect a coach with a dismal track record as a HC/Coordinator to lead a group of young players and help BU take the next step.  I am not asking BUs offense to score 50 pts a game, but they do need to sustain drives rather than going 3 and out.  3 and outs only lead to short fields for the opposition and puts your defense on the field for a majority of the game.  The OC needs to come up with a game plan to utilize the talent they have to put together a ball control offense, which will give them the opportunity to sustain drives, score points, win the battle of field position and keep the defense of the field and give them a chance to be successful.  

I believe the last two years, BU has done such with the offense, which allowed them to make progress.  I would give Cooper 2 more years to allow his Freshmen and Sophomores to become Juniors and Seniors before making a change if they can't make further progress.  BU without the tradition obviously, is in a similar situation as its D1 brother in South Bend:  multiple coaches with average or poor track records in multiple years leads to a lack of upper classman, which equates to poor records.  Making a change now only sets both programs back further.

Who are my top candidates? I don't know. My job isn't to hire coaches. But at this point in time, why not give Swanson the reigns? See how it goes. He hasn't coached football in a while, but he's a great football mind. He was an All-American DB and coached at Benedictine for a good amount of time. He couldn't do a worse job than Cooper. He can gut the football staff just as Cooper did when he came in three years ago. Swanson has a ton of connections and could assemble a staff in no time. I could probably tell you right now who he would hire as his O and D coordinators and at least two position coaches. And don't say Swanson wouldn't do it, if Benedictine threw some money at him, he would do it.

Also, don't blame this on Hand. That was what? 6? 7 years ago?

Yes, Murray was hired out of desperation. But, don't mix up the order on Murray's departure to sell supplements. Murray was fired, then he went to sell Supplements. He did not leave on his own. Former AD Lynn Olynski gave him the boot.

The Mitchell hire was out of desperation, but mostly laziness. Benedictine higher ups were not going to do the coach searching process. They went internally because they had "better" things to do.

BU hired Cooper out of desperation because they fired Mitchell...and needed a coach quick. When Aurora decided Cooper was not good enough to be the head coach of their program (after devoting almost 20 years to them), Benedictine figured why not?

Don't give me the "they hired him based on his track record" line. Murray went 63-30 as the D-Coordinator of IWU in a top tier conference, which is far more impressive than anything Cooper has accomplished.

So you're going to pin this on the OC? Guess who hired him? Cooper did. Remember, Cooper gutted the staff to bring in his guys? If Cooper can't take the fall, at what point does he take the blame for poor performance? If his coaches are doing a bad job, then he is doing a bad job of leading. If his players are doing a bad job, then he is doing a bad job of coaching OR recruiting (or both). At some point, Cooper needs to have responsibility.

I can't listen to anymore excuses being made for Cooper.

He made his own coaching staff. He has one of the best Division III football stadiums in the nation (which does half of the recruiting on it's own). He is in arguably the worst conference in DIII football. You can be a pathetic team in this conference and still finish 5th, and even 4th sometimes.

What more do you want as a coach?

Quote from: FatalImpact on September 24, 2007, 11:25:04 PM
AYK, if you have no affiliation with BU and honestly you have no idea, why do you care...The way I see it you're getting second hand or even thrid hand info which is sketchy....Your arguements are week, bring something to the table or shut up

Please. You know my statements regarding Cooper are factual.

If "bring something to the table or shut up" is all you have, then I'm afraid you should leave.

Quote from: 79jaybird on September 23, 2007, 02:24:25 PM
Areyou kidding- seems like either a disgruntled father, player, a former coach, perhaps somebody who was passed over for the Benedictine job.
I don't look at the Benedictine/CUC game as a "Whoa the Eagles lost" rather "Hey Concordia's program is starting to put together some wins." Give Coach Pries and the Cougars some credit.  It was not that long ago CUC was 1-9, 2-7 etc. and with the new regime they have started to put together more wins.  They may not be high-octane teams, but you have to start somewhere.

I still think it is too early to point the finger at Jon Cooper and cry for a new coach.
At Elmhurst, Tom Journell went 4-6 in his first year.  Did we call for his axe? No of course not.  He has put together 6-4 (could easily have been 7-3) campaigns and slowly the EC program is getting better.

Again, it's not 100% coaching, the players have to execute on the field and make plays also.

None of the above, but let's continue.

Hey, kudos to CURF. I'm glad they have finally found the right coach for their program. They've gone through some rough stretches, but finally they are making a name for themselves in the conference.

But, you can only give so much praise to teams. At one point, you have to identify the bad teams. CURF may be "better" than they used to be, but they aren't good yet. They are still a bottom tier team. Benedictine lost to them, so that makes them worse.

And there's a big difference between Journell and Cooper, so don't put them in the same category. Going 6-4 at Elmhurst college is a bit more impressive than going from 3-7 to 4-6 in a toilet conference. Plus, in your third year, starting out 1-3 with basically no possible way to win more than 3 games all year. I call that the opposite of progress.

If you can't go .500 by your 3rd year in the IBC, it's time to find a new job, whether you do it on your own or it's decided for you.

Quote from: TBaggins on September 23, 2007, 05:19:03 PM

This guy is so pathetic it's hilarious!

Boo hoo, I feel slighted by Jon Cooper because I wasn't taken seriously when I was at Benedictine so I have an axe to grind. My self-esteem is so low, and the PBR I use to drink myself to sleep every night does nothing to help so I think I'll post on this message board. Maybe...just maybe someone out there will listen to me and hate Jon Cooper as much as I do (sniffle, sniffle).  Oh the pain, the agony! Whoa is me!

Dude, seriously you're about as pathetic as they come. You're not going to find anyone here to validate your personal beefs with Jon Cooper. Yeah, Benedictine may look bad right now but they also have more kids out for the team than they have in any recent time. I know you think the team you were affiliated with (all 16 of you) were so much better but that's just the PBR talkin. The team is young, they have a freshman quarterback who was thrust into the role in the last minute but they're going to come around. They're probably not going to win the conference but so what, the program is still headed in the right direction.

But hey I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Keep crying into your beer and posting your anti-Cooper diatribes on the board, they're hilarious. The best part is picturing you sitting at the computer in your underwear, your gut hanging onto the keyboard which is soaked with PBR and tears.

I'm afraid you are mistaken, but I have no affiliation with Benedictine. Do I know some former players and former coaches? Yep. Do I also know former players and coaches from just about about every team in the conference? Yep.

But, using a defense mechanism of projecting your feelings/experiences of the"16"  person teams Benedictine had is pretty sad.  It's obvious you were part of those teams, and even more, it would be very easy to figure out who you are based on that alone. It's just too bad that you sat on the worst Benedictine team in the school's history. I mean, I guess it's good in a way that you were not part of the school's black mark in history...but then again, what does it say about you if you weren't even good enough to start on it? I'll make a couple of phone calls, as it wouldn't be too hard to figure out who you are. Like you said, there were only 16 players on that team, right? Now that we've identified that you are a former Benedictine player, let's move on.

Stop making excuses for Cooper. This will be his 3rd losing season. That's the most consecutive losing seasons for a BU coach in a very long time.  But blame it on the QB situation, blame it on the young guys, blame it on everything you possibly can blame it on...except who is really to blame: the head coach. Either he's not recruiting well or he's not coaching well. It's one or the other (or both). And please don't mention the numbers he has brought in. If they can't perform, they are numbers and nothing more.

Quote from: TBaggins on September 23, 2007, 05:48:32 PM
By the way AYKM, everyone knows you've been making these same posts on the board for 3 years now under various monikers (Fat Pongo). So what's even more pathetic is the fact that your time spent here in 3 years surpasses the time you've spent doing any other activity during the same period. Maybe you need to try harder to get laid? I hear nudie magazines don't really love you back.

Again, I'm afraid you are mistaken. I'm guessing a poster has a similar opinion of me, and yet because of it I am associated with him? That's great logic. You must be a Benedictine alum.

Your closing statement regarding magazines and getting laid further proves your idiocy. Are you out of eligibility? If not, I heard Benedictine needs some more "numbers," something perfect for a scrub like yourself.

Benedictine loses to Concordia Chicago 21-10.

So who is going to side with Jon Cooper now? He's lost to the worst team in the IBC (with the exception of Eureka). It doesn't get much worse than this. "Oh he's still building his team." Not an excuse. He's in year 3.

"Oh but NCC and Elmhurst are the #1 and #2 teams in the nation" excuse doesn't work anymore. They lost by 2 scores to a TERRIBLE team. They are also terrible.

What does Jon Cooper do all week? He does not gameplan. What does Jon Cooper do all offseason? He does not recruit good players. He's pathetic. He should be fired, as I've said all along.

If Murray and Mitchell lost their jobs for poor performance, Cooper should've been fired after yesterday's game.

Cooper came into Benedictine with an attitude. He knocked Benedictine's past teams by saying this is the "new" Benedictine" and that the "old" Benedictine had to go, the "old" Benedictine was bad, blah blah blah. Guess what? The old Benedictine was a lot better than when he came. If you're going to come into a school acting like some big shot who is going to change things, then change them...for the better, not for the worse. I'm just tired of people siding with Cooper when he has done noting but fire good coaches to bring in "his" guys, lose games, and recruit a bunch of scrubs. It's time for him to be fired or retire on his own.

Jon Cooper is proving why Aurora never hired him as a head coach. There's a reason he was an assistant for almost 20 years. It's showing right now.

Benedictine will go 1-9, maybe 2-8. That is not progress.

Benedictine administration, if you're reading this, start accepting applications, because this ship is sinking.

Somebody tell me what Jon Cooper does all week, because he certainly does not game plan.

141 yards of total offense? That's with a 68 yard final drive. So 73 yards?

73 YARDS OF OFFENSE? Come on. Someone tell me. What does this guy do all week during film, meetings, etc. You don't need to gameplan to gain 73 yards of offense. Add that to the 101 yards of offtense against Elmhurst. What is going on?

BU allowed 261 yards rushing also. What did the defense do all week in practice?

This is beyond pathetic.

Benedictine's administration needs to take action. If the last two coaches got 2 years, this man should've be out by now. If he's not out by season's end, Benedictine's football program should just fold.

Sager,

I don't visit this site everyday, so don't get too excited that I haven't responded to his obscenely long post. This isn't a matter of "oh snap he didn't respond, you da man."
The truth is, I just read the post, well, some of it. I'm not going to take my entire evening muli-quoting separate parts of your post just to get you excited.

I know it makes you feel important when you write a very long post...and I'm sure it excites certain people on this site because they have nothing interesting going on in their lives...hence, why they sit on this messageboard hours a day discussing division three football.

Let's get something straight though...just because you sit here with your thesaurus and try to sound smarter than you are does not make you important.

My points have been simple, yet true.

It all started with the Guru stating that All-American teams other than D3football.com and the other one were not worth the paper they are printed on. I argued that it was not true. I don't know how someone can sit here and discredit an HP All-American team, especially when the player I named was amazing.

The Guru said that he wasn't chosen because "they" thought a dozen db's that year would have had similar stats playing in the IBC with the schedule Benedictine had.

I mention somebody from Benedictine going D3football.com AA...and that it was because of double teams to a better player. He said that it was difficult to tell if someone has great numbers because somebody else was being double teamed. 

How can it be difficult to tell that when he named the other DL on that team to his Preseason All-American team? Wouldn't it cross his mind that "wow, this guy from Benedictine put up great numbers...but didn't I name somebody else to the Preseason team? Wait, they are both D-lineman, is there a correlation?"

I'm just looking for some consistency here. That is not much to ask.

Finally, my point regarding North Central College not being the best in the IBC was a year in/year out thing, not simply based on games that have happened in the last 12 months.

CUW and Lakeland have been better than NCC over the course of history...and it's simple as that. That does not mean NCC wasn't better this year or last.

And if you would like to argue that Lakeland has not had down years the past 2 years, you're pretty dumb. 0-3 this year...5-5 last year. That's a down year for a team like Lakeland.

But go ahead, open up that Thesaurus and try to sound smart in your next post. Make sure you multi-quote everything and take a long time revising your post. You have people to impress on this messageboard. Don't screw it up.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 13, 2007, 01:22:36 AM
Man, AYK sure opened up a great big can of wrong today. Looks like he's spilled most of it all over his shirt, too.

How does anyone believe that he can argue with credibility in a room where he insisted that North Central and Carthage are incapable of beating CUW and Lakeland, when in fact the Cards and Red Men actually beat CUW and Lakeland four days ago? And then when that incredible gaffe is pointed out to him, he retorts with a lame comeback about how he "doesn't study Division III football on a week-by-week basis" ... as though bothering to read the final scores of this league's games, which were posted in this room along with the IBC standings by Gomer Pyle last weekend, constituted "study[ing] Division III football".

How does it work that you can assume you're a big enough authority on D3 football in general to take on Pat Coleman and assert that so-and-so was the best cornerback in D3 eight years ago, and you're a big enough authority on this league specifically to pronounce who is capable of beating whom, but you don't even bother to find out who won last Saturday's games? That splash you heard was Pat laughing so hard that he fell off the side of his yacht.

Dismissing the old aphorism "quit while you're behind" as a quaint and unsuitable piece of advice, AYK then followed up this pair of gems with a backpedaling statement (in the form of a rhetorical question) about how North Central couldn't beat CUW "when it counted" ... only to be informed that the Cardinals beat CUW in the freakin' NCAA playoffs last season.

Hewlett-Packard called, AYK. They want a new spokesman.

Based on the fact that you have a North Park avatar, I'm not sure if I should take you seriously. But, for argument's sake, I will just this one time.

If you took reading in first grade, you would know that I never said Carthage was incapable of beating CUW and Lakeland. That aside, my point was that on a year by year basis, North Central is not a team who would consistently compete with Lakeland or Conc-Wisc. Both teams have had down years the past two years (for their program's standards). If you follow the IBC, you would know that.

With regards to the scores, no, I don't study D3 football. I just joined the site two days ago. I wasn't looking up scores.

So North Central has beaten them in two down years? Big deal. North Central and Lakeland have both been more successful over the course of history.

Feel free to get off the guru's you know what while you're at it, you're doing it in PDA form.

Quote from: Gomer Pyle on September 13, 2007, 09:58:34 AM

Quote from: Are you Kidding on September 12, 2007, 11:42:15 PM
And apparently I need to brush up on my D3 football over the past two years.

One thing is for sure, if you're going to try and say that over the course of history North Central has been a better team than Conc-Wisc, you're lying.

   "over the course of history." 
    Here are some FACTS  I`d like to contribute but first as far as Con U, Wis goes. They do have a pretty impressive % over their football life which by the way, started in  1970.  From that year to 2006 it`s stands at .675.
   With 107 wins ........51 loses.  In that time frame they`ve won 4 Conference Championships and in 1981, 2004 they tied with others.
    Lakeland College on the other hand started in 1940. That aside, they have 114 wins.......90 loses.  Which is a winning %of .558.
    Con U, Wis has the upper hand % wise but in so far as Conference Championships go, Lakeland has won (5) out right and tied in 2004 with others.   
   I`m aware you were taking about North Central and CU-W but as you seem to navigate at will........For my money Lakeland "over history" is  better than NC or CU_W as far as Championships go.  That`s correct Maddog, Lakeland. Calm down AYK, that`s another long time poster.
    "Better team" ambiguous at best.
  A sarcastic retort with out civility   is expected. 
   Looks like your standing in for 7400West. 
     

I'm not sure what you want me to say, as you helped my argument. All I can really do is thank you. Then again, I'm sure you love looking up past statistics. When I get some time on my hands like you seem to during the work day, I'll do that.

Quote from: bufan on September 13, 2007, 11:23:57 AM
Are You Kidding Me

You are just making excuses like,"Oh Lakeland had a down year, CUW is having a down year."  NCC would win the IBC this year, its not even debatable. Cause they just beat our likely conference champion by 21.  How are you gonna tell someone who played for all 3 coaches that im wrong.  No one was calling for Murray's head, he chose to leave on a whim, which set us back.  all the players were pushing for mitchell caue he was the D-coordinator under murray.  We thought it was the best choice, but i guess be careful what u wish for.  If you had any clue what it was like under mitchell as compared to cooper you would be more understanding.  A small example of how dfferent it was that isnt score related.  Mitchess requested a 300 check to order spirit pack stuff, cooper asked for 100 and we got more stuff.  There was shady **** going on and im not gonna "spew" more of another man's dirty laundry.  If you would like to know ill tell u i guess.  But the whole attitude changed with cooper as did the effort on the field.

I'm not gonna lie, I haven't followed the IBC this year at all this year. But what is true is the fact that NCC hasn't been a better team than Lakeland or Conc-Wisc (with the exception of this year or last, 2 down years for both teams).

And please, stop making up information. Murray was shoed out by Swanson, Redmond, and the rest of the administration. DON'T act like he was welcome to stay. Murray was simply a replacement for Jeff Hand, who quit the summer before the 2001 season. Out of desperation, the grabbed Murray from Dubuque, who had a horrendous record in his few years there.

I really don't care if you sat on the bench for four years under three coaches. That's your problem. But if you're going to list information about the school, at least be accurate, which you haven't been once so far.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2007, 11:59:47 AM
To answer AYK's question about the 2001 decision, basically, we made the decision based on the information we had available and what we were able to find out. It is really difficult to tell if someone has great numbers because he gets a lot of chances when teams are avoiding someone else. We have continued to work on improving this part of the process, and, as I have gotten to know more coaches in the past eight years the site has improved overall.

Based on the information made available? You're acting like you had no idea who Gardiner was. *Knock Knock* guru, Gardiner was named to your 2001 Preaseason All-American team after you goofed by not naming him to the 2000 team. How would you not know who he is? Obviously, you knew that he played for Benedictine. It just so happened that the following year somebody who played on his SAME defensive line (Ryan, a player who already had 2 years of D3 football and was UNKNOWN) had some amazing year, and you wouldn't stop to think about who's team he was on before you named him to your AA team??

Stop lying and looking for excuses. You've been caught. Just say your All-American system is flawed because you act like you know certain regions of D3 football when you never even pay attention to them.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 13, 2007, 12:01:18 AM
Pro tryouts are all about who you know (and dozens of kids get them a year). Plenty of kids could play Arena ball out of D-III if they didn't turn down chances in order to, you know, get a job and get on with their real lives.

Yawn. Your personal attacks mean nothing to me. You think much worse hasn't been flung at me in a decade between D3hoops and D3football? Spare me. You've got nothing new.

Whether that's true or not...which it isn't...though there is no reason to argue who does and doesn't get pro tryouts because I know you'll come up with more and more information to spew out.

Answer this then: if your argument for Verdone not being on your All-American was because of the conference he was in and the teams he played, then why did you select Pat Ryan for All-American when he wasn't even the best DL on his team? Pat Ryan went 2nd team all-conference and Gardiner was 1st team. How does that work?  In fact, the previous year, Gardiner put up better numbers on a better team. How does that work Guru?

And apparently I need to brush up on my D3 football over the past two years.

One thing is for sure, if you're going to try and say that over the course of history North Central has been a better team than Conc-Wisc, you're lying.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
Yes. Making printers and computers and scientific calculators definitely qualifies you to name a Division III football All-American team.

AYK: HP was just the sponsor. I already told you who voted. Were you listening?

We felt there were probably a dozen corners in Division III who could've picked 10 balls against that schedule. That's why others made the team ahead of him. No offense to him as a player or person, but there were just others that were better. We wouldn't punish a player who played a better schedule.

Quote from: Are you Kidding on September 12, 2007, 10:51:03 PM
Unfortunately, I don't study Division III football on a week by week basis like you do. NCC beat Conc-Wisc? Great for them! Who won last year when it counted?

North Central did.

http://www.d3football.com/releases.php?release=8938&scoreboard&year=2006

North Central had no problem avenging its earlier-season defeat to Concordia University (Wis.) after crushing the Falcons 35-6 in the first round of the NCAA III Playoffs Saturday, Nov. 18.

Right, because being a brand means nothing. If we're using your logic, then Allstate never should've been able to buy the Rosemont Horizon because the CEO of Allstate wasn't a huge sports fan...and Minute Maid should not be the name of the Astros ballpark because the owner of the Astros actually does not like minute maid soft drinks.

Was I listening? No. I was reading. I know who votes. Coaches for one, SID's for the other. What's the big difference? Coaches are going to be more biased, and in fact are. Maybe they didn't like how one player acted against his team. Maybe he showed his team up? No vote for him. Do you think an SID cares? No. He'll go on facts. I know, I know....you were an SID for 3 years or whatever it was...and therefore you can speak for all SID's...even ones who have been doing it for 25 years.

Onto Verdone, a dozen corners better than him in D3 football with that schedule. Get real. How many of those dozen corners from 1999 that were better than him got pro tryouts, nfl europe tryouts, and played arena ball. Do you even remember the players names? I doubt it.

Verdone is the best player in the IBC in the past two decades, if not history. I'm willing to bet you never even saw him play.

Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on September 12, 2007, 07:39:46 PM
Are you Kidding,

Um, are YOU kidding (or just memory impaired)?  "...NCC would not win the IBC.  They would have to beat Conc-Wisc and Lakeland, which wouldn't happen."

September 8, 2007 (remember 4 days ago?): NCC 28, CUW 7.  Carthage (picked behind NCC in the CCIW Coaches' Poll) 35, Lakeland 16.

OOPS!

Unfortunately, I don't study Division III football on a week by week basis like you do. NCC beat Conc-Wisc? Great for them! Who won last year when it counted?

Either way, I was speaking as a whole...and over the course of history (and even the recent past) that Conc-Wisc and Lakeland are better teams than North Central. It's not my fault CUW is having a down year.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2007, 09:33:29 PM
And your spirited defense of USAFootball.com? Any thoughts on trying to put a tutu on that pig?

HP was decent for its time. I'll take the team voted on by coaches, though, rather than the one by SIDs. Just in general, that seems like a good idea. Nothing against SIDs, but they're not watching video and scouting opponents. They're looking at stat lines. In this case, Benedictine 1999 stats were racked up against the IBFC, a SLIAC team and the worst two teams in the CCIW.

My defense is the stats that Gardiner put up..which were disgusting...something around 40 sacks in only three years of football (didn't play his freshman year)(keep in mind he had 40 sacks with Pat Ryan grabbing 16 of them while feeding off of Gardiner's triple teams). I mean, I'm sure there are plenty of people who do that. Name them for us guru.

And I'll take HP over D3football.com when it was still going. The mere fact that Ryan was voted over Gardiner for All-American status in 2001 shows that the system was flawed enough. Why weren't these "coaches" watching? And if the IBC is so bad, why did D3football.com vote Ryan All-American?

Knock Benedictine's 1999 schedule all you want, but Verdone was still the best cornerback in the nation. He had tryouts from several pro teams, made an NFL Europe team but decided not to go, and played arena ball.

But I mean, what is Hewlett Packard anyways? Not a multi-million/billion dollar company or anything. D3football is though, right? I'm sure you're posting right now from your Yacht.

You need to accept the fact that although Division III football is your life, you don't know everything about it. Discrediting other publications simply because they voted differently than your site does not make them wrong. You need to accept that.

Quote from: Pat Coleman on September 12, 2007, 09:16:06 PM
Preseason doesn't count anywhere.

I know those guys, but come on now. Who is USAFootball.com, really? When was the last time HP released an All-American team?

Our team and the AFCA team are the only ones recognized by the NCAA in their record books. Seems like a good cutoff for me for legitimacy. One person on those lists.

Why does it matter when the last time HP released an All-American team?

They obviously got it right in 1999. How does a corner with 10 picks for 101 yards with 90 tackles on well-known team not get picked? Come on. And let's not debate brand names here...HP...D3football.com...in d3football.com's first year releasing all-american selections. HP wins.

And the only reason Gardiner (who was a better lineman than somebody you listed to your All-American team, Pay Ryan) wasn't First-Team in 2001 on d3.com is because Pat Ryan played next to him...and while Gardiner was getting triple teamed, Ryan was getting his sacks.

Three All-Americans, not one. Just because they weren't a d3football.com All-American (which started releasing lists only 8 years ago) doesn't mean they weren't All-Americans. Like I said, a brand name like HP gets a little more credibility than a business (at the time) who was releasing a team for their first time.

Like I said, 3. There's your proof which you so desperately needed.

Being a D3football "guru" as your subtitle states, I'm pretty sure you'd know these guys: Mike Gardiner and Chuck Verdone.

Verdone was a Hewlett-Packard First Team All American in 1999, and an honorable mention All American in 2000 (simply because nobody threw his way). Verdone has Benedictine's career interception record along with several other records.

Gardiner was named USAfootball.com Second Team All-American in 2000. He was also named to YOUR 2001 Preaseason First Team All-American team. Gardiner holds Benedictine's sack record.

The one you're most likely referring to is Pat Ryan, the 2001 D3football.com First Team All-American.

In my world, 3 people is not 1 person. I'm not sure about yours.

As for your comment regarding no other All-American team being worth the paper it's printed on...Hewlett Packard All American holds a bit more credibility than a d3footall All-American. USAfootball.com isn't too far behind either.

So actually, Benedictine has 3 All-Americans from 2000-2001. Thanks for helping my argument.