I gues looking back over the history of the championships, when diff teams where competing in Stagg Bowl, its important to look at HOW many schools were playing D3 football, lets say in 1989. I don't have the answer but I would think it is far less than it is now. So when it comes to recruiting, talent will now ber as watered down. That may be one answer to the many questions. You also can look at some of the schools that won championships or played in the Stagg Bowl, are no longer in D3( Wagner, Dayton) Also Does anyone know how many full time coaches( or grad asst) are on the MU and UWW staff? If you got more guys dedicating there daily lifes to making ABC football team better you will alos have a huuge advantage over the competition. I know most of the NY schools have at most 4 FT guys which includes the head coach, alot of the assistants are teachers that work all day then go to football practice in the afternoon, just as a HS coach would. Just a thought!

I have read through some of these posts  A lot of us are forgetting to mention how much familiarity of opponent is really worth. Within your league regardless if its E8 or LL, the fact of the matter is you know those teams you are playing inside and out. You can throw the records out when certain programs play one another. If I remember correctly a few years back Hartwick upset a Fisher team, and possibly blocked them from the playoffs(could be wrong) but I do know Fisher was heavily favored. Doesnt matter the year, Union Vs RPI always going to be a battle. I was at the Hobart vs RPI game and though Hobart didnt play great, it took a few scramble around throww it 45+ yrds down the field plays to beat them. I m taking nothing away from RPI because they won, but it just goes back to my point of teams know one another in a league very well.

I would say the LL has def been down over all the past few yrs, just look at what happened when SLU won it last year with a 5-5 overall record. However that same SLU team almost beat Alfred who beat FIsher and won the E8. I also think Springfield coming into the LL will make some noise right away bc teams are not use to seeing the trip option. If salisbuys stays a few more years in the E8, you are going to see them get beat, because teams are going to bemore familiar with them.

Quote from: SJFF82 on December 19, 2011, 01:27:13 PM
In the past I have 'critiqued' the Weekly poll system because, at this level, other than MUC/UWW, we really dont know how good the teams are as they relate to eachother.  Consequently, the weekly poll from 3-25 is really just an attempt to rank teams based on the game just played with no real insight as to how that team could fare OOC against a team with a similar record.

...all that mumbling for this.....How the hell does Hobart end up ranked so low in the final poll, other than pure apathy on part of the voters because the season is over.  Did they miss the part of the play-offs where Hobart went to Wesley and only lost by a TD, and then Wesley went all the way to the Final 4 and played MUC to the end, and then MUC almost pulled it off against UWW?

Then the obvious....they beat Fisher by 75 points at Fisher and ends up over 15 spots ahead of them in the poll...

I know that beating someone who beat someone who beat someone else doesnt always lead to the right conclusion, but in this case the are some real hard and fast numbers that just dont add up?  I would like to ask the pollsters whether they think Fisher woulda fared better in RD 1 ag. WESLEY.  Likewise, do they think Hobart would not have beaten Johns Hopkins and DVC and then have been homogenized by the Tommies like FISHER.

IMHO, I think had Hobart and SJF been reversed in the play-off seedings (and certainly you coulda have argued they shoulda) Hobart makes the run SJF did, SJF loses to Wesley and Hobart is 11 and SJF is not even an afterthought.....yet they are the same team nonetheless regardless of the poll

Bottom line I guess....its awesome when your team finishes 11, but it sucks when you are 27 and but for the draw of the seeds, you know you are better than the 11 team.

Oh wait....I wear Burgundy not Orange....scratch all that
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SJFF82, well put couldnt agree more

Kind of off the topic, but did any one watch the Montana vs N. Iowa game on friday. What a crowd, 25g strong. But you could have fooled me, it seemed a  lot larger. What a great environment to be at. The fans were going bonkers!

I am new to the message board here, but have followed numerous conversations over the season. I found this one very interesting. There are a lot of advantages some schools have over others. Primarily academic qualifications and C.O.A(cost of attendance) For example if you look at the LL and E8  and what the price tag is and requirements and compare them to SUNY and NJAC schools its very very very different. No disrespect to either of those conferences what so ever different types of schools period. I am first comparing this on a regional level. So even compare LL to E8 schools. LL academically overall is stronger than the E8(not knocking the E8, I graduated from one of those schools). Also look at price tag. Hobart, SLU, Union, and RPI all over 50g per year. E8 schools are not chump change either most in the mid to upper 30's. My point is , and I know some of you prob agreee you are going to lose a lot of kids because of money and low academic standards. And yes, schools do get some chips, free passes, but its only a few. Whats happening at alot of these private schools that do have great traditions of football, either you are getting the kid that can pay full shot or the kid that is dirt poor. Alot of these schools are losing the hardnose middle class kid, who may be bright enough to get in, but mom and dad make a little too much to get any need base aid. I think it is going to only be harder for schools like Ithaca, Fisher, Hobart, Union, Rpi..etc to compete on the national level and get deeper in the playoffs, unless you have an administration that is 100% on board with making football top priority, which is not going to happen at least at some of those schools. You may see a surge from the state schools over the next few years. If you look at UWW , Mnt Union, Wesley and St Thomas. All are great programs and St Thomas has made a surge over the last few years. Mnt union and Wesley both head coaches are the AD's as well. I think that obv makes a biiig difference. But if you look at MU and WC, COA is cheaper than all previous said schools, and academic requirement is easier. UWW state school, proud tradition, affordable, above avg academics, just like most state school systems. STU is interestin bc they came out of no where over the last few years to be a national player. I guess to sum everything up, I don't see some of these schools able to compete unless someone goes all in and the athetic dept is 100% football all the time. Some of these schools administration are just happy to have a winning team. Im sure some will disagree, but I have been around d3football for awhile and also have worked at a couple of college institutions, so I think I have a good perspective on this (IMO)

Quote from: Bombers798891 on December 12, 2011, 12:42:26 PM

Quote from: Upstate on December 12, 2011, 12:33:22 PM

Most of the football programs get "chips" to get players in who normally wouldn't qualify in. 

Those players of course have to go through some sort of academic support program during their freshman year, sometimes longer.

Sometimes those students flame out sometimes they make the best of their opportunity, it's up to the coaches to try and figure out who will be able to come in, work hard and stay in the program.

I don't doubt this is true, but how many of these "chips" are you getting? How far below normal qualifications are these players falling? Are we talking half a dozen kids who are 30 points below the SAT cutoff? Or 20 kids who are 70 below? These things no doubt exist, but they're not the same for each school