Quote from: Joe Wally on November 21, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Congrats to Albion on a good season.  Heck of an offense you run.  Would like to see it under reasonable conditions.  The weather did no favors today.

Safe travels home to the Britons.

As a Briton, I wish the conditions were worse and Albion went with a game plan similar to MSU did against OSU this weekend. Just run the ball a thousand times. While Wabash's back was running downhill for the most part I think the two back system, and a very mobile Bona, Albion may have been able to pull it off. The turnovers did not help anyone.

I really enjoyed the Wabash broadcast, I saw a few other Albion fans on facebook complaining about the announcers, but at the end of the day for a DIII broadcast it was very professional. I really enjoyed hearing Mauri Ditzler during the hour long halftime.

Speaking of halftime, can anyone remember a similar halftime?

Quote from: formerd3db on November 19, 2015, 08:45:52 PM
Gentlemen:

In response to Cousin Eddie's comments, I do know some aspects about the Rundle "thing", however, I am not going to "air dirty laundry" here. This is not the appropriate forum to do so, rather that is a topic for good dinner's conversation sometime. Suffice to say, there is some animosity there among many factions.  Nonetheless, I would agree with you that perhaps most of the '94 team members are not in a position to make major contributions to any proposed Albion athletic fund.  Yet, at the same time, every little amount helps and I do not believe that it wouldn't be possible raise a significant amount that would be of importance.  And it's just my opinion, yet if I were involved in assisting to organize such a fund, I would not hesitate to put it to the administration that "we" wanted it for athletics-at least for that campaign.  I'm sure the Albion administration would not want to lose a fair amount of alumni donors who would most likely support future funding for academics IF their gifts designated for athletics were accepted for what they prefer.  Once the athletic facilities upgrade is completed (i.e. that funding would obviously not go on forever), then I can't imagine the former players wouldn't donate to the other college fundraising programs. 

Also, you have twice now referred to "pulling an Adrian".  When the Adrian administration first unveiled that plan, there was a lot of flack from some various outsiders thrown at them for doing so.  However, in accessing the overall idea in the end, it was the appropriate strategic plan to implement.  The full time enrollment had fallen to a "new era" all time low, below the 1,000 mark.  By adding men's and women's hockey and men's and women's lacrosse, those 4 at the very least, brought in a ton of $ (tuition at the time was ~$33,000 per year).  The cost for coaches's salaries and cost of the programs were not that much eventually-of course, it helped that two wealthy alumns donated $2 million+ for the on-campus ice arena.  Adrian also has 2 club collegiate hockey AHCA teams, plus the skating teams, all of which fill the ice arean.  Plus, to my understanding, renting out ice skating time to the public (if that is still done-I was told it was initially) brings in additional funds to cover the operating costs. 

In all, this plan brought in a substantial number of student-athletes, which brought stability to the overall enrollment, keeping it where it is today.  It was also my understanding that administration wants to keep the enrollment at 1,700 tops, although I do not doubt they could support having substantially more.  In conclusion, I did not intend the above to be a negative missive towards you, rather just thought I would share a little of what I know and/or was told from some reliable sources about some of these aspects.  The plan might not work or be appropriate for other colleges, however, for Adrian, it appears to have been successful for what it was intended for.  Just MO. 

My comments regarding Adrian are most likely biased, yet I still think it's a fair point.

Adrian decided to take on a large amount of debt (as well as found some wealthy donors) with the idea of "if you build it they will come". Adrian has invested a TON of money with the philosophy of building facilities that are unmatched in order to attract students. For the most part, this is a decent strategy and it has worked in their favor. They certainly have turned around the admission numbers and now need to invest in retaining and increasing the academic component. Adrian made a risky gamble and I'm not sure Albion is willing to make that same gamble.

Quote from: Cousin Eddie on November 18, 2015, 01:21:15 PM
I would have to agree that the Albion facilities do need some upgrades.  As IO mentioned, part of it is due to donors wanting to focus more on the academic side of things.  But there some internal factors that have kept some of the donations towards football and athletics down.  Part of the issue stems from members of the '94 team not having a warm inclination towards Coach Rundle taking over after Pete Schmidt left. A number of them have said that they would not donate until he is gone.  They worked at spreading that sentiment to a number of players that went through the Schmidt years.  Now I know that this does not account for all, but when Wabco asks about some of the more successful alumni, they would fall into this category.  Another example would be several years back, prior to the current AD being hired at Albion, there were plans to update the locker rooms with wooden lockers.  Like the one's seen at DI and pro level locker rooms.  A lot of the funding was in place but internal issues arose that kept the project from moving forward.  At the time donations had been lined up to get the project started and it would have began with the men's locker rooms first as they take up the most space.  However the plan was scrapped until all funding could be found so that all locker rooms could be done at once.  Now I am not fully up on Title IX and so not sure if maintaining balance in regards to Title IX was the driving factor, but the main rumor at the time was that the Interim/Acting AD was the women's soccer coach and she shot down the plan because she did not want the football locker room to be the first to be updated.  For the years that Albion did not have a true AD, they really struggled to maintain support and move any facilities forward.  It wasn't until the current AD was hired and the office properly reestablished that Albion has seen the improvements and progress it now has.

I can't attest to the ins and outs for the Rundle/Schmidt thing. But I do know there are a lot of '94 players who feel that the College could do more to honor them. I would also argue that while there are many '94 graduates that are hitting their stride they probably haven't accumulated wealth to the point of providing significant gifts yet. There was, and I do think somewhat still, an internal struggle for funding athletics. They do not want to be seen as leading the pack or pulling an Adrian by investing solely in athletics, but it really has put them in a "catch up" position. I love the armchair fundraisers who just say "go find someone who will give you the money!" I'm sure the new leadership is doing that, but I don't think it's simply that easy. Albion has some incredibly successful alumni for a small school - but the case for support seems to fall on academics  and now the town.

Quote from: ThunderStorm_3peat on November 19, 2015, 08:55:37 AM
Well in 2010 when Depauw had a bad grass field and garbage locker rooms, a far superior Trine team had to travel to DePauwchwitz and play in that squalor.  I just don't think Albion's facilities have that much to do with them not hosting and more to do with no MIAA team being able to be competitive in the playoffs outside of a 3 year stretch by Trine.

Facilities for NCAA post-season events have nothing to do with "quality" but rather can they check a box as having a space that does "X" or satisfies a certain set of conditions. Quality doesn't matter.

I really don't think the NCAA looks at what was done previously in the play offs, whether it was Trine's run five years ago or Albion's run twenty years ago.

Quote from: wabco on November 17, 2015, 08:24:42 AM
I do not mean this as some negative statement against the Albion students or football team.  BUT: Is there not one successful (in business) football supporter who would alone or with "friends" provide the funds necessary to renovate the press box?  It has been the boat anchor there forever.  Recruiting students would be aided (indirectly) by this improvement ... image improved ... the fact that this press box discussion is occurring is a negative killer toward the positive thoughts which are required for Albion to charge a recruit a boat load of tuition as a private liberal arts school and recruit students verses its competition.

Wouldn't it be a super positive to be able to hold a playoff game when you otherwise qualify to be in the playoffs? Wouldn't have happened this year when paired against #7 Wabash ... but could in the future.  NOW is the time to get cooking,  Albion alums !You all are the game changers.  President Ditzler should be receptive to all positive support.  Al - bi - on ... go Albion! 

And ... returning to the focus for this coming game ... FEED MASON, go Wabash D, send Albion back to work on their press box during the winter.  WAF

Albion has a catch 22 with a lot of donors. While we have a large history of athletic success and wonderful stories, there are many in the donor base that want to see more of a focus on academics. I would argue that K, Albion and Hope are the top three schools in the MIAA, but in the GLCA we all fall short. Many donors would like to see that change. Which is admirable but the large picture isn't always there. I think there is also donor fatigue, especially towards athletics. But there is a reason Mauri Ditzler was brought to campus and I think that will change here soon.

Quote from: formerd3db on November 16, 2015, 06:05:59 PM
Gentlemen:

A great discussion and very relevant.  I agree with Wally regarding the most probable reason why Albion not hosting.  However, I also believe that had that even been a possible consideration, most likely, it would not have happened due to, yes, the press box.  Some of you may recall that was the main reason why Carthage (WI) was not allowed to host a playoff game just a few years ago, until their press box was enlarged/renovated. 

I love Sprankle-Sprandle Stadium-the historic/traditional college atmosphere is awesome, including the old concrete walls.  That field has been used since 1900, and the old football field in the decade before that is where the home stands and building is now. I truly believe that if Albion renovates their press box (and the really need to-I know from my own visiting coaching experience there as DAWG pointed out ), there would be no "points against them" for eventually hosting a playoff game in some future year.  The facilities as they are now, with that renovation, would be more than adequate.

With regard to the basketball facility, I, too, like the historic aspect of Kresge.  I hope that it would be possible that Albion would renovate that and continue to use it for basketball.  I can see where they (the administration) might potentially desire to build an entire new facility (either on that site or perhaps over where the athletic complex is already) in "keeping up with the Jones'" in the MIAA i.e. all the other MIAA schools new bb facilities.  However, realistically, as some of you point out (and I do not intend this in a disrespectful way whatsoever-even though Albion is my/our heated rivalry,  )), Albion is never going to draw the attendance figures for basketball like Hope or Calvin does, so they really do not need a huge seating facility.  And let's be honest (even thought the NCAA is, perhaps, a bit shady on that side at times I think we all agree-I could share with you some behind-the-scenes stories that I know of in the past, but will pass on that for legit reasons)-a great number of the early host team facilities for the bb tournaments do not have huge seating capacities i.e. are very much like Albion and you do not draw huge crowds for those early games-period.

So, IMO, I think that a very nicely renovated Kresge at Albion would be a great and more than adequate facility.  Thanks to all of you for a really great and fun discussion.

Regarding Kresge. As a Briton, I completely agree - Albion will never pull the crowds that Calvin and Hope do and nor should they try. There are too many things that play into that even if Albion "built it, they wouldn't come". But, I do think the College could do a little updating. I for one, would love to see the facade stay and basketball/volleyball continue to be played in the building. It's an anchor to the quad, historic, and beautiful. It's where commencement is held and too important to the tradition of the College.

There were talks about 10 years ago about swapping the theatre and the basketball facilities and maintaining the look of the quad, but I think those days are gone. I've heard rumors that Albion would like to create a practice facility in the green space in the corner of the quad and expand the back of Kresge to allow more room and bring the facility up to current building codes. Perhaps move the cadaver lab that's across from the visitor's locker room.

The entire athletic area of campus needs an upgrade. The school is close to finishing the second phase of an athletic project and I hope they look at the Dow Center as the next project. Locker rooms need updating, the indoor track needs to be expanded to 200m, the pool needs to be expanded and there is a large need for additional work out areas as prospective students, athletes and non athletes, are very interested in new age facilities and the current area barely fits the football team. Meaning, if they're uses the weight room no one else can use it.

Quote from: sac on November 16, 2015, 03:48:54 PM
There are two basketball references here, one IO addressed.  The other was 20 years ago Hope's home basketball court was deemed inadequate the year they were unbeaten forcing them to move to an even more 'inadequate' on campus facility.  Even though Hope had hosted tournament games on the same court and even hosted a women's Final Four only 3 years earlier.


It so happened Albion's coach, Mike Turner, was the head of the Great Lakes Regional committee that year.  He wrongly took some flak from those in Holland for the whole deal, it was the NCAA's decision.

Anyway, its just a little amusing to me.



For the record Albion's Kresge Gym holds 1,500 when full, though I've suspected that number is closer to 1,200.    The manual on hosting NCAA events is thick and filled with 100's of inane things that make you roll your eyes sometimes.

It wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA refused to allow Hope to host a Men's Tournament game during the same season the Women's Final Four is in Holland. It's that funky some time. I think Turner is a fairly middle of the road guy, he had his issues (and does) but he wouldn't screw over Hope. A few other Albion coaches on the other hand...

I think 1,300 is being generous for Kresge. I think 1,100 is comfortable before it become standing room only. Although, I have't seen more than a couple hundred in Kresge in the past 10 years.

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 16, 2015, 02:14:00 PM
Got it.  Albion's tiny gym surely isn't affecting football's ability to host a game.  If the coach's box situation is rickety and unsafe, that might.  I was at the Wabash-Albion game at Sprankle-Sprandel in 1997 and I don't remember anything about the facility in general that would disqualify them from hosting.  19-year old me didn't take special note of the press box, so I'll take your word for it.  Otherwise, my recollection is that the venue is fine.

Is a school required to have a locker room for away players? Most of the time the away teams meet in the end zones before the halftime orange slices are passed around.

Quote from: wally_wabash on November 16, 2015, 01:32:43 PM
This is the second time that I've seen the basketball tournament mentioned here.  Help me understand what a decade-old basketball tournament impacts football site selection in the present? 

Also- I don't think Albion was really in play for a home game, whether they applied or not, whether they had adequate facilities or not.  When you're in that 5-ish spot in the regional rankings, you're kind of on the borderline when it comes to getting a home game or not and when they got drawn into a pod with Wabash, TMC, and W&L, Albion wasn't going to host any of those teams.

At the end of the day, you're right, I doubt the 2004-05 tournament actually had an impact on this game. But it may have as it opened the NCAA's eyes to the facilities that Albion has.

Albion's facilities are historic. While quaint it really does hamper the College's ability to host post season events. Albion's basketball arena, Kresge Gymnasium (same Kresge as K-Mart), is older than Butler's Hinkle and at one time housed the pool, basketball and locker rooms for all sports. Football used to change at Kresge and walk the 400ish meters down the train tracks to the football stadium. It's great, it's wonderful, it needs an upgrade.

In 2004-05 Albion had a very good basketball team and won the right to host the second round game against College of Wooster and the sectionals. Kresge only holds 1000 people and the bleachers were over flowing onto the floor and with in arms length of the court. It was a great atmosphere, a lot of fun, but did not sit well with the NCAA. Especially due to Calvin being in the same sectional, just down the road and with a large fan base. Calvin ended up beating Albion in the Elite Eight and as the low seed and had a larger and better facility in Grand Rapids. The rumor is as soon as the NCAA arrived at Albion they told the then Athletic Director "If I knew what your facility looked like you never would have been allowed to host". I would love to see the box score and attendance numbers, but I doubt it exists.

Was Albion in play for a game. I don't know, but you're probably right. If Albion wouldn't have tripped up and lost to Trine I would think one could make an argument. But Albion was told that until the press box is fixed (the assistant coaches literally sit on top of the box, in the elements, at crappy tables and folding chairs) they're not hosting a post season game. Now, I'd argue that this is D-III and part of the experience - but apparently 2015 D-III is changing too.

Quote from: sac on November 16, 2015, 12:29:19 PM

Quote from: IoTriumphe on November 16, 2015, 11:51:17 AM

Quote from: ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE on November 16, 2015, 10:32:02 AM
Have to say that Albion getting that road draw seems a bit off to me,

It's my understanding that even if Albion suited up the '85 Bears they still would not ever be allowed to host a play off game until the press box is upgraded. As of now the NCAA does not deem Sprankle Sprandle worthy (cue Wayne and Garth).

20 years on, this seems to make me smile a bit   (vague I know, think basketball, Holland Civic Center etc etc)

I think the 2004 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament kinda killed Albion's shot. From what I gather the administration and athletic administration understand the need. They're not about to pull an Adrian and cover it with loans, but the donor pool is a little tired and not exactly jumping at this opportunity. Albion's certainly playing catch up in regards to facilities and I think this also plays into the earlier conversation of strength of conference.

The funny part is the exact same stadium would be deemed essentially perfect in the eyes of the Track and Field committee.

Quote from: ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE on November 16, 2015, 10:32:02 AM
Have to say that Albion getting that road draw seems a bit off to me,

It's my understanding that even if Albion suited up the '85 Bears they still would not ever be allowed to host a play off game until the press box is upgraded. As of now the NCAA does not deem Sprankle Sprandle worthy (cue Wayne and Garth).

Quote from: formerd3db on November 13, 2015, 12:48:33 PM
Pat:

To: IoTrimphe and DBQ:
There have been several discussions in the past couple of years or so here on the MIAA board regarding the "state of the MIAA" and reasons why.  Both of your posts have touched on some of those various factors.  Although I have offered my own opinions on the topic in the past also, I would enjoy sharing a few of those comments again here with you.  I do not have time to do another post right now, however, I will try to do so at some time over the weekend or shortly thereafter.

Would love to hear them when you have the chance to put pen to paper.

Greetings! I'm a long time lurker, Albion alumnus, and large DIII supporter.

After seeing this forum slow down and become riddled with the Dutch, I figured I'd come in and start to diversify the posting.

It's been quite a year for the MIAA. I think Albion's lone blemish to Trine is showing some headway to growth as a league and the wins over Lakeland and Oshkosh I think are better than they look on paper. At least for morale. I know a lot of Britons were hoping to run the table and host the first round of the play offs, but from what I understand after the 2004-2005 basketball season, Albion will most likely not be hosting play off games again (at least not until their new athletic project is completed and even then I believe Albion could only host a postseason Track and Field meet). Hopefully Albion is rewarded by not having to play a powerhouse in the first round, but I'm not holding my breath.

I too have wondered why the MIAA doesn't gain a little more traction in the state. With the history and strong academics, especially from the GLCA schools, it really should have a small following. Is it the rise of the GLIAC over the last 10+ years? A growing NAIA league? Is it the superiority complex this state seems to have when it comes to the natural order of NCAA football teams? Would a Calvin team help build a fanbase in Grand Rapids which could help push the MIAA the same way GVSU has done to for the GLIAC?

I think 20 years ago everyone in the state new of the MIAA for academics and respected the athletic accomplishments, but the rise of "my kid earned a scholarship to a GLIAC school" when a parent doesn't understand nor care about an academic institution has led to some word of mouth issues. Dave Neilson did a great job as commissioner but I don't think he really understood how important athletics would be to admission numbers on MIAA schools and how important increasing awareness of the MIAA would be beneficial for all. I don't really know the answer - but I'd love to see a push.