WRT to Hopkins, it's been covered in the Mid-Atlantic thread and a little here early in the season: It is absolutely about the COVID years and players staying extra years. Combined with a number of grad student transfers. You have a very young and inexperienced team (in terms of overall minutes played at the collegiate level) that is struggling to keep the ball out of the net.

I suspect they'll be back to their winning ways next year, but this is pretty much the definition of a rebuild season.

And that's OK!

I'm not trying to kick a debate back up re: Messiah, but since we seem to have rounded into a civil discourse... It's a little early to start describing the program as headed off a cliff. I know that wasn't stated explicitly, but there's a strong implication that time has caught up with the coach and if he "doesn't change his ways" this trend can only continue.

Lot's of reasons a storied program can take a dip like this. And just to reiterate, we are (rather inexplicably) including a team that won its conference and a first round NCAA game, in this "downward" trend.

I am supremely neutral about Messiah. I respect its long-term success, and I'm agnostic about its religious bent. I just think one-off years can happen to lots of respected programs.

Sasho Cirovski hadn't had a losing season since his first year at the helm in 1993. They went something like 4-8-3 (close enough) in 2023 and then rebounded with a winning record in 2024, ending with a loss in the second round of the NCAAs. They are currently 6-0-3 in 2025.

Quote from: RetiredWarrior on September 24, 2025, 03:35:32 PM

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on September 22, 2025, 04:33:58 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 22, 2025, 10:37:08 AMFurther to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

Actual Lycoming fan/player here from that "era". You can go ahead and take your "click bait" somewhere else and leave our team's name out of this conversation.

We had the utmost respect for the Messiah teams of those years. We were the only program to find repeated success against them in the conference and arguably the country during that period. Regardless of where they stand now, we would not/ did not take any digs at them anywhere, much less behind the anonymity of a message board.

We went toe to toe with them during that period... their last two national championships (2013, 2017) ... the MAC Commonwealth Champions in those two years... Lycoming College!

Since McCarty took over in 2009 the only time Messiah didn't win the conference championship... 2013,2015,2017... who won in those years - Lycoming College.

2015 being the only year Messiah didn't win the National Championship or Conference Championship during that run... which is also the only year they didn't make the NCAA tournament during McCarty's tenure... while Lycoming made it to the Sweet 16 before bowing out to eventual National Champions - Amherst.

Tip my cap to Messiah and what McCarty has been able to do for these past 17 years. If anyone could spiteful, it should be any one of the other programs that didn't sniff a championship during that time... not the only team to have success.

Not a dig at anyone in this chain, but thanks for the perspective RW... That's great context.

Quote from: RetiredWarrior on September 24, 2025, 03:35:32 PM

Quote from: D3SoccerTalker on September 22, 2025, 04:33:58 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 22, 2025, 10:37:08 AMFurther to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

Actual Lycoming fan/player here from that "era". You can go ahead and take your "click bait" somewhere else and leave our team's name out of this conversation.

We had the utmost respect for the Messiah teams of those years. We were the only program to find repeated success against them in the conference and arguably the country during that period. Regardless of where they stand now, we would not/ did not take any digs at them anywhere, much less behind the anonymity of a message board.

We went toe to toe with them during that period... their last two national championships (2013, 2017) ... the MAC Commonwealth Champions in those two years... Lycoming College!

Since McCarty took over in 2009 the only time Messiah didn't win the conference championship... 2013,2015,2017... who won in those years - Lycoming College.

2015 being the only year Messiah didn't win the National Championship or Conference Championship during that run... which is also the only year they didn't make the NCAA tournament during McCarty's tenure... while Lycoming made it to the Sweet 16 before bowing out to eventual National Champions - Amherst.

Tip my cap to Messiah and what McCarty has been able to do for these past 17 years. If anyone could spiteful, it should be any one of the other programs that didn't sniff a championship during that time... not the only team to have success.

Not a dig at anyone in this chain, but thanks for the perspective RW... That's great context.

Anyone who follows college hockey knows Quinnipiac, who won the NCAA championship in 2023.

But your point still stands.

Hop is VERY young, which is likely contributing to the number of goals they are giving up and the manner in which they are conceded.

Paul Newman would've been all over this situation. Poster certainly seems to be taking a personal approach to critiquing Coach McCarty.

=-=-=-=-=-=

I also want to clarify... My comment about not expecting this from that type of program had zero to do with their Christian-forward environment. More to do with the level of respect that coaching staff has built up over many iterations going back to the guy the field is named after.

Hazing is all about power dynamics. Certainly not something religious schools are immune from.

Quote from: paclassic89 on September 20, 2025, 09:32:42 PM

Quote from: Ejay on September 20, 2025, 08:07:20 PM

Quote from: Footy on September 20, 2025, 12:55:24 PMThe magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

There was a hazing issue that just got resolved this past spring.  Mccarty was suspended from coaching for half of the spring season and an alum was suspended from volunteering with the team during the summer.  I don't think it's coincidence that they're off to such a poor start

Woah. That's pretty heavy stuff. Not what I'd expect from that program.

Quote from: Hopkins Walk-On on September 19, 2025, 10:35:56 AM

Quote from: Hopkins92 on September 19, 2025, 09:50:31 AMBack in my day, it was always Hop, Fords and Swat battling it out for the conference title. Slightly different mix of teams (F&M not in the conf at that time, for example) but it just seems like they have the resources and history to be competitive in a sport like soccer.

F&M was in the Middle Atlantic Conference through 1992/93 when the school, and Hopkins too, left to form the Centennial Conference for all sports (Centennial was just for football previously).

Yeah, I'm not sure why I had that brain burp. I don't remember playing them at home, just at their field. It was memorable because they had good hecklers. I guess that might bug some goalies, but I always loved that. Good natured and quite funny.

But, yeah, looking at the record book, played them all 4 years. (Obviously)

I've said for many years that Haverford and Swat being perennially below average is just weird to me. Beautiful campuses, decent facilities* and incredible academic standing.

Back in my day, it was always Hop, Fords and Swat battling it out for the conference title. Slightly different mix of teams (F&M not in the conf at that time, for example) but it just seems like they have the resources and history to be competitive in a sport like soccer.

I mean... We're talking about NESCAC vs. MAC-C... The "controversy" around NESCAC getting so many teams in last year comes down to the inherent SOS bump with which the entire league inherits starting every season.

Messiah is likely going to need to capture the AQ to get in, IMO. I know it's early, but 0-5 is a pretty deep hole. These guys don't play 30 games.

They haven't had a "bad" season since 1976 when they went 5-7-1. 2 years later they won the NCCA championship. 10 years later they beat E-town for their first ever NCAA playoff win.

The first three years, the program only had one W per season. So... Maybe back in the late 60s?

I mean, I could be wrong, but other than last year's 6 losses (which was a "down" year for them, as they "only" went 14-6=2, won the MAC-C, and lost in the 2nd round of the NCAA's), you have to go back to 2015 to see 5 losses in a season. And then you'd need to back to 1996, Shoemaker's last year, to see another 5 loss season.

I should expand on my comment upthread. Coaches polls are dumb.

(tempted to leave it at that)

These guys are busy. It's not their job to find the 9-1 loss on a team that is secondarily removed from what appears to be a "good result."

But, as Mr. Sager implies, we get what we get and we don't get upset.

Simple Coach has his biases (which I often share) but you know he's going to look at the entire picture, because... He has devoted the time to do so.

I know I'm stating the obvious to many, but I sort of feel like this board needs more real talk.

I come here for the Caltech journey.

Here's a link to the Simple Coach's interview with Coach Gillis in 2023.

Might be fun to circle back with him.

Edit... Actual link would've been nice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCI2bpTmcIQ

IF so, another reason the coaches polling in most sports is pretty flawed. It's not like they would've had a ton of results to pore over to dig that fact up. 9-1 kind of jumps off the page, right?