Agreed-Billy old reference is priceless! One of the most enjoyable posts I have read in some time. I like the Jackets with a Toomey/Old matchup

Sorry - hate to go back to the discussion on the HSC/VWC game and the Macedo question that was raised previously...

But, if the Marlin players did in fact flick off the fans in the manner that Algernon (a faculty member at HSC) suggests - this is a much more serious issue, in my opinion.  I don't care what happened during the game or what the fans did - we must as a conference and as individual schools hold our players to a higher standard.  I would have hoped and expected Macedo and VWC (Joanne Renn, AD, who is outstanding as a person and administrator) to take decisive action.  This is not a 'gray' area - this should be a no tolerance type situation.  There is no defense to this behaviour - if it did go down in the manner that it did.  And, if Macedo and VWC failed to discipline - they have lost some of my respect as a consequence.

As for Macedo - he is a terrific coach, relentless recruiter and even a better person.  It has been some years since I knew him well, but we were colleagues and competitors at one stage.  I agree with all that has been said about him being an outstanding human and I hated to compete with him.  Having said that, Macedo does come from a 'blue-collar' background and relishes that to some extent.  That persona he likes his players and program to assume - tough, rugged, and perhaps less respectful of tradition in an effort to just be who you are.  So when VWC players from time to time act a little brutish it is a consequence of the tough and rumble attitude and character of his program, to a small extent - or at least was several years ago.  I think this tone is something that Macedo sets and has been a real tool to get his teams to be tough and to unify his players - some of whom are from rougher backgrounds.  This is not to say Macedo would ever condone the alleged behaviour of some of the marlins after the HSC game - but it may be a consequence that happens from time to time.  Again, I will say, if that incident of flicking off the crowd did happen - and Macedo is aware of it - I do not expect he would let it slide and either would Renn.

You may be right, ODACHOOPS, but the fact that we are even discussing it suggests that this was a dumb scheduling mistake for UoR. 

I recall awhile back when a young assistant at a mid-major school tentatively scheduled HSC.  When the Head Coach of the D1 program found out, he immediately called HSC and "graciously" backed out.  Not sure how this RMC/UR game came up, but not sure I see much of an upside from a UofR standpoint...other than maybe building a little local excitement (and I'm not sure the UofR/RMC rivalry is the one they should be trying to build).

I wouldn't call the A-10 a "middlin" D1 conference either.  I believe they were down a bit last year, but they are definitely on the edge of being a major conference.  I would call the CAA a mid-major, with Patriot, Ivy and Southern as low major (excluding Davidson of course!).

Will be rooting hard for Coach R and his team, but that is a tough match-up without a doubt.  And if Brunt really did schedule it, he probably made a mistake...

Major congrats, Steely!  You must be proud...just give her some time to develop before you toss her into the lay-up lines!

Quote from: osnapitsodac on July 24, 2008, 11:22:04 AM
N.C State wanted him to walk on what do u think or how do you think Jeff would have done.

Monroe could have gone to a Patriot League school in the Fall signing period  of his Senior year in high school.  I believe he wanted to wait and see what other offers would come in and who  else might get interested.  He also had Elon very hot on his heels.  NC State would have loved to have him walk-on, but I think Jeff wanted to be more of a contributor.  In fact, Jeff had a teammate (Will something) in high school who was a good athlete/player, but lesser than Jeff, who walked on for four years at NCSU.  Not sure if I think Jeff would have been a contributor at NCSU.  That is a huge jump.  He was a special player and person, but getting minutes in the ACC would have been very, very tough.

Agree that not every high school player thinks he can be a D1 prospect.  But, if you are coaching in the middle-to upper end of the ODAC, you only want to be recruiting kids who end up "settling" for D3.  Otherwise, you are going to be in a lot of trouble...

Oldfish...those three are good, although I do think Yuh. and Nickerson were really exceptional.  I was trying to remember him...there was a significant cheer in the Tiger locker-room following Nickerson's final game w/vwc.

Bobby Jackson was much closer to 6'5 than 6'8.

Definitely Kyle Williford.  Others include Russell Turner, Rick Chalk, Dan Rush, Jeremy Harris, Cam Dyer...there are many others...

Quote from: xcoach on June 16, 2008, 11:38:48 AM
"...this is more about the incredible level at which HSC was at during the 90s and early 2000s.  We'll get back there!"

With all due respect...No you won't.
It has been a long time since the opportunity for an RC and Moonpie wager appeared on this board, thus my extended absence...but the above statement screams out for one! With the parity that exists in the ODAC only getting stronger,  no school will match the record of the "Shavers era" in the ODAC.
Book it?

Sure...I'll take it.  But, that assumes a number of things.  First, it is a 13 year bet (based off the 13 years that I referenced in my prior post).  Second, that they will continue to make moonpies in 13 years.

In all seriousness, I think you're right in that it will be very difficult to match the Shaver era.  My comment was more of an encouraging fan's view.  I do think we will rise back to the cream of the ODAC, but whether that results in the "Shaver era" records you mention is tough to say...and more than tough to accomplish.

But, it is certainly worth a moonpie and RC to try...

Scotty,

I agree that change occurs....and the sky is blue.  You are missing the point. It still was not relevant to the substance of the discussion.

You completely changed the substance of the discussion.  We were not discussing the nature of change and that every team has ups and downs.  We were specifically discussing the HSC hoops program and the differences in the Shaver/post-Shaver era.  If we leave it to that sample size we were discussing (which would make sense), your statement is wrong.

Scotty,

So your view is everyone should just expect a drop at some point.  And that is simply just life and the natural rhythms?  Great recipe for mediocrity my friend.  Yes, if your sample size is large enough that is what it suggests.  However, you perhaps should consider the substance of the discussion.

Quote from: LCasid on June 15, 2008, 12:59:55 PM
Okay folks lets get back to reality here. There's not a single team in the country, rather it be D1, D3, NAIA, or even High School, that is going to lose less than 10 games every single year and be a contender for their conference championship and a national championship. Duke doesn't, UCLA doesn't, Kentucky doesn't, Kansas doesn't, Hampden-Sydney doesn't, Randolph-Macon doesn't, UW-Stevens Point doesn't, Amherst doesn't, DeMatha HS doesn't, etc. All teams go through "dry spells" - it's simply a fact of sports and a fact of life for that matter. Not even the greatest winner in the history of basketball (Bill Russell) won a title every year. If you expect your team to be that damn successful every year then you are just setting yourself up for some mighty disappointing times when your team goes into a dry spell.

You may not like to hear that but it's a fact and you need to learn to accept it every once in a while. If maniacal Kentucky fans can accept it, HSC fans can accept it.

Really? I disagree (maybe except for the national part).  In the last 13 seasons under Shaver, they had one season at double digit losses (13).  The other 12 seasons were: 6,6, 6,3,9,7,6,3, 2, 5, 6,4.  Pretty incredible run under Shaver.  Each of those years they were certainly in the hunt for the ODAC title and often-times in the hunt for the National Championship. 

Last few years there has been a drop-off on the Hill with three of the last five years seeing double digit losses.  Call it a cycle in the world of athletics, call it financial aid, increased competition in recruiting.  This is not a negative comment on Bubba or his abilities (he's got over a .650 winning percentage for heavens sake)...this is more about the incredible level at which HSC was at during the 90s and early 2000s.  We'll get back there!

They did win the tournament which was terrific.  But also had a 10-8 conference record.  This year they suffered even a worse record.

To be clear, the standard was ridiculously high when Shaver left.  It was very rare for his teams to lost close to 10 games in a season.  So "fallen" is less a statement about any particular coach or recruiting and more a statement about the incredible status of the program at the time of Shaver's departure.  But yes, it has fallen....and perhaps for the reasons that HSCfan suggests. 

I'm not sure I agree with you HSCfan.  W&M has absolutely increased its talent level as all would say in the CAA...Your implication is that a primary reason Shaver got the players he got was lack of competition, more financial aid and a better situation.  Bubba has had none of that and that's why the program has fallen.  Not sure you'll get many to agree with that general premise...but rather than arguing, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Best of luck to Dee Vick if he has indeed accepted the job!