Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 06:02:38 PM
I think when most people tell you SNC is safe this year and you tell them it can't be right. And dispute the reasons given to you why SNC struggles to be a Pool C bid. You seemed to want to come up with conspiracies (like favoring conferences, which I don't think happens at all - that is the ole boys network we saw on display a lot in the old days).

Sure ... I can understand you are pessimistic that SNC gets a bid due to the history of falling short. I just can't buy into the rest.

Who is everyone? The two D3 basketball twitter accounts that thought SNC had at least a shot? I don't know if I would say I'm coming up with conspiracy theories, more so correctly pointing out how metrics tend to favor certain areas in terms of being able to stack favorable games for at-large bids, which you've said happens.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 05:31:21 PM

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on March 03, 2020, 05:04:17 PM

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
Silence since SNC was selected as an at-large team ... not surprised.

Nice quip!

First time for everything, I suppose. My reason for pessimism was/is not unfounded. You literally pointed out on the podcast how the metrics, such as vRRO and SOS, tend to favor NESCAC teams, etc..

There could easily have been a run of NE teams, as well as a bizarre shakeup in the Central rankings (which did happen!) that could have left the Knights on the outside looking in. For once, they were on the right side of things. Past history would have suggested otherwise. Don't act like you knew without a doubt how things would shake out.

Hmm ... when did I say it tends to favor NESCAC teams? That has been the complaint, for sure ... I haven't fully bought in on that. But there has been complaints and speculation. However, that isn't the reason SNC has been left home in the past ... because usually SNC is buried behind other Central Region teams to be honest. I am not sure SNC has been at the "table" with any serious chance at an at-large until more recently. That's because of their resume ... not the NESCAC or any perception that some how east coast teams are taking bids away (which they are not; the Atlantic Region, for one, is one that usually hardly gets Pool C bids; East Region doesn't tend to get many, either).

The Central Rankings didn't change much because there were a ton of losses ... had there been a number of wins, SNC (assuming a loss) would have ended up at the table pretty quick. What shakeup are you talking about exactly? The rankings were nearly identical - outside of Elmhurst moving up - to the previous week.

I was pretty sure SNC was in the tournament this season.

On the podcast you said that those metrics tend to favor NESCAC teams. I suppose it could favor the other power conference teams in the same way.

The shakeup I was referencing was Benedictine being above SNC (they won the head to head, so I suppose rightfully so) but ahead of other worthy teams like WashU, as well. Things like that can create log jams in the selection process, which you and your team referenced. I recognize the selection process is never going to be perfect. That said, I feel like certain conferences get preference when it comes to all the variables, even when resumes are nearly indistinguishable. Like I said, first time for everything, and maybe the criteria the committee emphasizes will be in flux (which it seems to be), but you can hardly blame a fan of what I would call a low-major (in a low tier conference, anyway) team in D3 being skeptical of how things play out every year.

Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 03, 2020, 04:47:23 PM
Silence since SNC was selected as an at-large team ... not surprised.

Nice quip!

First time for everything, I suppose. My reason for pessimism was/is not unfounded. You literally pointed out on the podcast how the metrics, such as vRRO and SOS, tend to favor NESCAC teams, etc..

There could easily have been a run of NE teams, as well as a bizarre shakeup in the Central rankings (which did happen!) that could have left the Knights on the outside looking in. For once, they were on the right side of things. Past history would have suggested otherwise. Don't act like you knew without a doubt how things would shake out.

I didn't say anyone had to feel sorry for anyone. There's always the argument that "the numbers don't lie" in terms of SOS and record vs RRO, etc.. but every year there's always surprising pool C bids that don't always hold up in terms of "the numbers." In that respect, yes, it does come down to subjectivity, and reputation of a conference/locale certainly come into play, you would be lying if you told me they don't. If everything was purely numbers, we would know exactly who the pool C bids were right away.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2020, 12:07:22 AM

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PM

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
Not really. The Bluejays were already going to be regionally ranked in the final ranking, regardless of the outcome of tonight's CCIW tourney title game.

Elmhurst will probably climb a few spots in the ranking, but not enough to make a difference for SNC.

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
Refs took over this one early in the second half.

Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

I know that you're just posting to air your sour grapes, but you really ought to learn a thing or two about how the D3 tournament operates if you're going to be a Green Knights fan. SNC is a solid program that contends for a D3 tourney spot on an annual basis, and that's not likely to change when St. Norbert moves to the NACC.

I know exactly how D3 operates, I've followed the school since I was 8. Merely by virtue of their conference, the Knights have no real shot at an at-large bid, ever.
Hell, even about 6 years ago when they had one regular season loss to John Carroll, they weren't even a lock for an at-large. I know the MWC is a pretty poor conference in general, but to never give any team the benefit of the doubt is absurd.

You claim to "know exactly how D3 operates," and then disprove it in the same paragraph. There is no "benefit of the doubt" operating in how the national committee does its work -- or the eight regional committees, for that matter. It's all about numbers, not "benefit of the doubt" or lack thereof. There's a sound reason why the MWC has rarely ever received a Pool C berth in the tourney, and it has nothing to do with the subjectivity within the committee that you're implying. It's strictly because the annual weakness of the league in non-conference play drags down everybody's strength of schedule, including that of the team that is best positioned to be a Pool C candidate, and the fact that 18 of each MWC team's 25 games are played against opponents who are rarely, if ever, regionally ranked (because of that same low-SoS reason) hampers the MWC's Pool C candidates in a second primary criterion.

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PMEven this year, SNC played a solid non conference slate, yet you knew from the get-go that unless they went undefeated in the regular season, they had to win their conference tournament to get to the dance.

SNC tends to play a solid non-conference slate every year, because Gary Grzesk understands the situation and schedules accordingly. November and December are the times for perennially strong programs in weak leagues -- a category that includes the likes of Benedictine, Lancaster Bible, Albertus Magnus, PSU-Behrend, etc., as well as St. Norbert -- to boost their SoS and their potential vRRO. Some programs, such as PSU-Behrend, elect not to schedule strategically and therefore just put all of their eggs in one basket, which means winning their conference tourney. Others, such as SNC, schedule strategically, knowing that they might take a few extra losses before New Year's Day but that it will position them better for conference play (because they will have already gained the experience of playing the toughest opponents they'll face during the entire regular season) and augment whatever chances they have to get regionally ranked.

SNC made that philosophy work well this season. The Green Knights did lose to Benedictine and Elmhurst, but they beat UWEC and UW-Oshkosh, building a vRRO résumé and boosting the SoS without seriously damaging their winning percentage. They, and the man who laid out that schedule for them, are to be applauded for how well they've done what they needed to do, given the circumstances that are dictated to good teams within the MWC by the league's overall weakness.

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 11:38:35 PMOne day that won't be the case, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. It'll be the same, year after year.

There's only one way that this changes, and it has nothing to do with national or regional committees and their decisions. It has to do with the MWC. The league's teams simply need to start winning more non-conference games than they lose. It's that simple.

I didn't disprove anything I said. What I'm getting at is that regardless of whomever SNC schedules in the non conference portion of the schedule, the MWC being not good penalizes them, no matter how much of a good faith effort they make to play a good non conference slate. They also have the misfortune of not being in proximity to other good schools, so scheduling tough teams becomes difficult.

Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2020, 11:42:01 PM

SNC's definitely going to be in the mix for Pool C.

I've read this story before. The bids never come this way, they stay out East or in the CCIW.

I appreciate the optimism, though.

Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
Not really. The Bluejays were already going to be regionally ranked in the final ranking, regardless of the outcome of tonight's CCIW tourney title game.

Elmhurst will probably climb a few spots in the ranking, but not enough to make a difference for SNC.

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on February 29, 2020, 05:36:46 PM
Refs took over this one early in the second half.

Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

I know that you're just posting to air your sour grapes, but you really ought to learn a thing or two about how the D3 tournament operates if you're going to be a Green Knights fan. SNC is a solid program that contends for a D3 tourney spot on an annual basis, and that's not likely to change when St. Norbert moves to the NACC.

I know exactly how D3 operates, I've followed the school since I was 8. Merely by virtue of their conference, the Knights have no real shot at an at-large bid, ever. Hell, even about 6 years ago when they had one regular season loss to John Carroll, they weren't even a lock for an at-large. I know the MWC is a pretty poor conference in general, but to never give any team the benefit of the doubt is absurd. Even this year, SNC played a solid non conference slate, yet you knew from the get-go that unless they went undefeated in the regular season, they had to win their conference tournament to get to the dance. One day that won't be the case, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. It'll be the same, year after year.

Refs took over this one early in the second half.

Good thing you can be ranked in the top 20 all season and it becomes meaningless since you have to have so many at large bids allotted for 7th place teams out East.

Ripon will get eviscerated in the tourney. Fun times!

Quote from: WW on November 18, 2019, 01:36:04 PM

Quote from: BigRedScots on November 18, 2019, 12:48:47 PM
Will Whitewater have more points than the Scots have yards this week?

Whitewater should win, of course, but this ain't the Whitewater of years past, or even last year. Oshkosh knocked them out of their comfort zone Saturday and the result was five picks. Can Monmouth do that? Prob not to the degree Oshkosh did, but I don't see them losing by 70, or giving up more points than they gain yards. I see a game like last years UWW-SNC playoff game... competitive into the 3rd quarter, till the UWW bigs just wear you down.

The difference is that SNC, last year, had an elite defense by any standard, whereas Monmouth this year does not.

Quote from: scottie on November 16, 2019, 10:23:21 PM

Quote from: TheGreenKnight920 on November 16, 2019, 03:38:51 PM

Fun times, they'll get rolled by 70 in the playoffs. Great look for the MWC.

Sour Much?

P.S. F-Dad!  F-Yeah!!

Am I wrong? I'll wait...

Quote from: gbpuckfan on November 16, 2019, 03:38:11 PM
Scots win. Congrats.

Fun times, they'll get rolled by 70 in the playoffs. Great look for the MWC.

Anyone else having streaming problems for SNC v Calvin?

https://livestream.com/calvin-university/events/8789233

Quote from: Gregory Sager on November 15, 2019, 04:56:40 PM
It's a shame, because SNC vs. ONU has been very competitive. Alas, Zuidema Field is a giant Slip'n'Slide. It appeared that the Green Knights had a breakaway opportunity quashed midway through the first half because the onrusher lost his footing at the edge of the eighteen.

Yeah Boldt literally had just the keeper to beat,
but he got caught by the mud monster.

Regardless of the eventual outcome (as its 0-0, currently), the fact that SNC and ONU, and previously, Calvin and UWW, have to play on this sad excuse for a pitch in do-or-die games is not a good look. There is literally a giant mud patch that covers approximately 1/3 of the pitch, as well as in front of both goals, and players are basically ice skating out there. You'd think for a perennial powerhouse, Calvin would be able to upgrade their facilities so this wouldn't have to happen.

St. Norbert v Ohio Northern

https://livestream.com/calvin-university/events/8789233