Quote from: The Mole on February 24, 2022, 07:52:19 PM
Asking for a friend..

Potential SA inquiring about teams in league that employ a "wingback" formation.

In the 6 seasons that i've been closely watching this league i can't say that one program deployed the same game tactics on a consistent basis during that time. For the simple reason that as a coach you don't know what your best game plan is until you've worked with your team, and every team looses roughly 1/4 of their players every year.

I would suggest to your friend to watch some games from each of the programs online (they're plenty available, and even for those schools that have a pay wall you can still catch their away games) and decide for himself if he likes the style he sees or not. The best way to figure out where he would best fit though is to attend an ID camp - that's where my son found his place, falling in love with the program while essentially trying out for it and meeting other recruits in the same situation. He can narrow down which camps to attend by first checking into the academic programs that he's interested in, then looking at the program's info like publicity videos (they all have them, and none of those are behind a pay wall  ), recent program results, etc.

Good luck!

First, i just want to wish Chicago the best in their latest Final 4 appearance - one of the powers in D3 for the past decade, and a team that does things right in every aspect of the game. As a Rochester fan i've seen them in person once a year since 2016 (twice in 2018) and they always played a quality game based on skill, discipline and quick ball movement. So when not lined up against my Yellowjackets, im a fan.

I've only seen Amherst in person once, in the 2017 second round, and i have to add my voice to the many others who have witnessed their boorish behavior. Their strategy against UR in that game (which was played at Messiah) was best summed up by one of the Messiah video stream commentators after yet another mindless Amherst hoof - "It's like they don't even want the ball". That's probably too harsh (after all they've won a lot of games and even a national title), but it came after Amherst had scored on an early corner, and then spent more than an hour doing nothing but playing and acting negatively - consistent and ugly physical challenges, a constant and mindless noise from their sideline, and an almost comical challenging of every call and out ball in the game. In the end they only hurt themselves as they gave up 2 second half goals and were bounced from the tournament, but it left an impression to say the least. And it wasn't just myself and our fans, as even the Messiah players told our guys the next day how happy they were to "be able to play a soccer game today and not a rugby match".

They are obviously coached that way, and no doubt it probably gives them a bit of energy and edge, but i agree with most of the others here that it can only take you so far - more often than not, quality will win out. Hoping that's the case again next weekend!

So the UAA again places 5 teams into the NCAA tourney - WashU (AQ), Chicago, NYU, Emory & Rochester!  Im rooting for the 'Jackets first, but would love to see all of the teams make some noise again this year. UR has a tough draw against Calvin, but this defense can stifle the best, should be interesting. WashU and Chicago should win their openers, while NYU & Emory also have interesting matchups in St. Josephs (always generate eye-popping stats until they hit the tourney) and Centre (the 2019 semifinalist).

Any predictions? I'd love to see a Chicago v. UR matchup in the Sweet 16....

Quote from: Mr.Right on November 23, 2019, 11:32:45 AM
JESUS----Amherst backs are just HOOFING...I mean not even looking up to see where it is going...Amherst midfield tryin to play and Cutler Coleman again busting his ass to play one more day...

Made me laugh and reminded me of a Sweet 16 game a couple of years ago. UofR was playing Amherst at Messiah and after they got an early goal off a CK the rest of the game was just that, hoof it - didn't matter where on the field the ball was, it was getting a big boot. Even after Rochester went ahead 2-1 in the 2nd, the tactics didn't change and i remember the excellent Messiah commentators at one point saying "It's like they don't WANT the ball!"  Impressive and willing athletes, and they've won a lot (including a national title), but the game plan seems a little anachronistic.

Quote from: lastguyoffthebench on November 20, 2019, 03:01:37 PM
Would like to see it in real-time, but from the description and pics I do not think this is handling in any sense... just unfortunate.    Did referees have open mics? discussion with AR? or was decision immediate?

It was immediate, no flag from the AR - and just guessing from his reactions afterwards (two quick yellows - one to a UR player on the field and one to the UR bench) he may have regretted it. Or he may not have, the home crowd certainly appreciated it!   But all i can say is that having seen the game, knowing the moment, and knowing the IFAB rules - "It is, however, considered natural for a player to put their arm between their body and the ground for support when falling, so long as the arm is not extended to make the body bigger." - the right call should have been to "play on".  However he was a human and sadly the NCAA doesn't yet have VAR, so here's another tale to tell about the game we all love.

Quote from: MaturinNYC on November 19, 2019, 01:03:07 AM

Quote from: TyWebb on November 18, 2019, 08:32:33 PM

Quote from: MaturinNYC on November 18, 2019, 05:39:45 PM
But i wanted to see it again in video just to ensure my partisan eyes weren't blind. And having just watched it in slow motion, that impression stands. It just simply isn't a penalty in any league/contest i've seen. And certainly not a golden-goal penalty in OT of a really good, exciting NCAA knockout game. The contact is almost all on his chest (imagine falling from a pushup position over a ball centered under your breast plate).

PN, I have been trying to find the video without success as well. MaturinNYC, if you have a link to the video of the Kenyon v. UR game it would be appreciated.

Sorry i can't share the video (it's on a pw-protected archive of the UofR games) - but I believe Kenyon's video of the game is available with a subscription (an "On Demand" section of their site)?  Maybe a Kenyon fan who has a video subscription can share their clip from it?   I guess i can try and share stills of the moment - i'll try that.

But before i do let me say that Kenyon did nothing wrong here - of course they would claim a foul when there's suspected contact in the box, who wouldn't?!?!  And absolutely #15's dribble attack into the area gets credit, as does Kenyon's free kick that equalized the game in the 76th minute. I've said this elsewhere, but let me repeat - it was a great NCAA playoff game that saw two solid teams giving their all and then giving even more. My only criticism is that this exciting, thrilling game got cut short by the official who, i believe, made a mistake in awarding a golden goal penalty on what was at worst incidental contact or chest/shoulder on a player falling down. It happens. That's not Kenyon's fault (also full credit to the kid who converted the PK, talk about pressure). So please do not take this as a UofR fan throwing shade like a sore loser. Kenyon won, i heard and saw that their players and ours showed great appreciation and respect for each other, and i wish them well. I just also wish that the game was decided in a manner fit for the moment and the quality of both of the teams playing it.

OK, so with that disclaimer, here's some screenshots.

I can't post the images here (i've reached out to Admin but no answer), so instead you can view 5 grainy screen grabs here -- sorry it's the best i can do! And again, just want to say this is for the benefit of those who have asked to see the play - the facts are what they are.
https://imgur.com/gallery/ZD3YLr1

Sorry all, but i could only load that one pic it seems. I'm well within the limits (jpg, under 500kb, each pic is only 50kb or so) -- anyone know what i'm doing wrong?  Can an admin help? I've got 4 more pics. But it's late and it's a work night so i'll try again in the AM.

Sorry, apparently this has to be a one-image-per-post thing, so here goes:

#15 White (Kenyon) has dribbled into the area and #27 Blue (Rochester) has started to slide - stopping the cross (the ball is under #27's left leg at this point)

Quote from: TyWebb on November 18, 2019, 08:32:33 PM

Quote from: MaturinNYC on November 18, 2019, 05:39:45 PM
But i wanted to see it again in video just to ensure my partisan eyes weren't blind. And having just watched it in slow motion, that impression stands. It just simply isn't a penalty in any league/contest i've seen. And certainly not a golden-goal penalty in OT of a really good, exciting NCAA knockout game. The contact is almost all on his chest (imagine falling from a pushup position over a ball centered under your breast plate).

PN, I have been trying to find the video without success as well. MaturinNYC, if you have a link to the video of the Kenyon v. UR game it would be appreciated.

Sorry i can't share the video (it's on a pw-protected archive of the UofR games) - but I believe Kenyon's video of the game is available with a subscription (an "On Demand" section of their site)?  Maybe a Kenyon fan who has a video subscription can share their clip from it?   I guess i can try and share stills of the moment - i'll try that.

But before i do let me say that Kenyon did nothing wrong here - of course they would claim a foul when there's suspected contact in the box, who wouldn't?!?!  And absolutely #15's dribble attack into the area gets credit, as does Kenyon's free kick that equalized the game in the 76th minute. I've said this elsewhere, but let me repeat - it was a great NCAA playoff game that saw two solid teams giving their all and then giving even more. My only criticism is that this exciting, thrilling game got cut short by the official who, i believe, made a mistake in awarding a golden goal penalty on what was at worst incidental contact or chest/shoulder on a player falling down. It happens. That's not Kenyon's fault (also full credit to the kid who converted the PK, talk about pressure). So please do not take this as a UofR fan throwing shade like a sore loser. Kenyon won, i heard and saw that their players and ours showed great appreciation and respect for each other, and i wish them well. I just also wish that the game was decided in a manner fit for the moment and the quality of both of the teams playing it.

OK, so with that disclaimer, here's some screenshots.

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 18, 2019, 06:35:30 PM
We recall the 1st half differently.  I don't recall sustained pressure from UR and the goal imo was not a function of sustained pressure.

Memory, like the game, is funny! My recollection was that we'd had a nice period of pressure starting about 5 min. before the goal, then after scoring that Kenyon had all the ball. But i just took a look at the video, and we only had one nice run at the 34 min. mark (that ended with Aidan Miller pulling his shot an inch wide of the near-post). Before and immediately after that the ball was with Kenyon - albeit not in dangerous areas. Then the goal came at the 38 min. mark (off the head of Will Eisold, our MOTM at both ends of the field), and Rochester's sustained period of pressure was actually afterwards. You are right, the goal wasn't the result of a sustained push, it preceded it.   

Quote from: PaulNewman on November 18, 2019, 06:35:30 PM
Even aside from the call, my biased bet is that Kenyon was then going to sustain a flurry of pressure...

And that's the bitter pill - because of that one referring mistake all we're left with is our "biased feelings" that our side would've won it, instead of the sublime reveal of what the game would've delivered.  I respect why you would feel confident of a clear Kenyon victory based on that 2nd half push; but if you take a look at the replay of the OT period (which, chastened by my first half error, i did - and this time, whew, it does sync with my memory) you would no doubt understand why i feel equally confident that Rochester would've won. And of course neither of us can ever really know, and that's a shame - though very real for me, and very academic for you!

I wish Kenyon well next weekend. I know that players from our side felt that the game on the field was fine, hard played on both sides but with no hard feelings or animosity between the players, mutual respect and admiration. And that at least is a consolation. If you make it to Greensboro, get the affogatto dessert at Print Works Bistro!

The UAA season is now over, as Rochester also falls in the second round, 2-1 at Kenyon. It was great to see the UofR play in a new formation Sunday that enabled more build-up play and empowered the attack, and it worked - almost. The Yellowjackets went ahead late in the first half after a sustained period of pressure, and while Kenyon brought some impressive pressure of their own (aided by fresh legs - they used 22 players in the contest!) the UofR team defense held the shutout until Kenyon found an equalizer with 14 minutes to play.  The hosts then piled on the attack but couldn't get a winner in regulation. In the OT period Rochester found a new gear and again built up their attacks - earning several free kicks and a pair of corners, but just not able to find that lucky bounce in the final 1/3. The feeling though was that the Yellowjackets had a handle on things and their experienced lineup would eventually get it - until only the second Kenyon possession deep in Rochester territory led to an unjust handball call (for more on that see my post in The Big Dance thread) and a golden goal for Kenyon from the penalty spot. It's a funny old game.

An "off" year for the UAA certainly, but 2019 was still a highly entertaining one to be a fan of this league. I'd like to salute and give thanks to all of the programs, their staff and especially their players - well done all, keep up the good work!  I've been a 'parent fan' now for four years, and while i've loved every minute of that i'm now looking forward to a new chapter as a 'regular fan'.  See you in the Spring!

Quote from: Domino1195 on November 18, 2019, 10:27:07 AM
But the deciding PK in the Kenyon game - wow. #27 for UR was having a MOTM game - several Kenyon fans said the same. Second half I was stationed on the fence at the attacking end for Kenyon - oh the chances they missed! #27 loses his footing, falls chest-first on the ball, ball touches his arm. I was 10 yards away - harshest decision - still not sure it meets the current criteria for handling. But the gentlemanly way he accepted the decision - unheard of in this era. My heart goes out to him. Class act in the face of such a decision.

Amended after finding the exact passage from the IFAB changes to handling, March 2019: (page 16:  http://static-3eb8.kxcdn.com/documents/791/171520_110319_IFAB_LoG_changes_and_clarifications.pdf)

"Except for the above offences, it is not usually an offence if the ball touches a player's hand/arm: 
•directly from the player's own head or body (including the foot) 
•directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
•if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
•when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body"

I was also at the match yesterday, in the UR section of the stands so not far from your place along the fence, and my immediate impression of the play was 'clean' and any contact negligible. Everyone wearing blue & yellow - every fan, team member and coach i heard said the same thing, not a penalty. But i wanted to see it again in video just to ensure my partisan eyes weren't blind. And having just watched it in slow motion, that impression stands. It just simply isn't a penalty in any league/contest i've seen. And certainly not a golden-goal penalty in OT of a really good, exciting NCAA knockout game. The contact is almost all on his chest (imagine falling from a pushup position over a ball centered under your breast plate). IF there was any arm contact it would've had no effect on the position of the ball or the players around it. There was no "hand to ball", no change of the direction of the ball, no denial of a goal scoring opportunity, no unnatural hand position, nothing to justify killing a game and robbing both teams of the chance to decide it with their play. I take nothing away from the Kenyon player who converted the PK - a high pressure moment and he finished, so well done to him. But to end that contest on the sort of play that all refs are taught to wave "Play On!" to and let the game decide it, it's just a crying shame. 

The game was everything you want in an NCAA tournament game - the players giving it their all, fans backing their teams, coaches making tactical changes, an even match with both teams creating chances. Rochester was the better team in the early going and got the first point, Kenyon responded and pressed hard, especially in the 2nd half - creating their own chances but also inviting counters, making for an exciting back and forth. In OT the first 7 minutes saw a flurry of Rochester attacks, a pair of corners and a few free kicks and the feeling was that UR would find the winner.  But unfortunately that one call will now mar the game in the memory banks. I remember leaving Grantham, PA two years ago after Messiah beat Rochester in the Elite 8 and hearing players and fans all say "great battle, but they were better". Last year the feeling was that Tufts took that semifinal game - physically but fairly, they were better. But this feeling, this isn't easy to settle with. Losing to an opinion is awful.

And there goes that...the dream dies in the 2nd round as OWU (NCAC) bounces Chicago 3-1. The Yellowjackets, now the last UAA team in the tournament this season, face another NCAC team as they take on host Kenyon tomorrow in a second round matchup.   

OK, this is the UAA thread, so here is a UAA prediction:

1st & 2nd Rounds
Chicago has an early and somewhat familiar test in the shape of Dominican (IL), but they past the exam 2-0. The second round also brings a familiar foe, this time the Flying Dutchmen of Hope College who took them to 2OT back in September. This time the Maroons go behind early, but find the eventual winner in the 2nd half.

Rochester gets by a plucky Hanover squad by scoring 4 goals to their 2. Then in the second round they win a 1-0 nail-biter over host Kenyon, gaining the first shutout of the season over the Lords.

3rd Round & Quarterfinals
Chicago squares off against Luther (IA) and takes home an un-dramatic 3-0 win. Which leads them to a very dramatic game vs. Calvin in the Elite 8. Last year the Knights put the Maroons to the sword 3-0 in the Semi-finals, and they also claimed a 2-1 win in September. This time though Chicago has found a way to smother the Calvin attack, and also scores a goal in each half to walk away 2-1 winners.

Rochester draws a loaded Franklin & Marshall team in the Sweet 16, and while the Diplomats score first, it's the Yellowjackets who sting late, often and last, getting out of the match with a 3-2 win. That sets up a rematch with John Carroll, who won the first contest in September in Upstate NY 2-1. This time around it's Rochester who scores on an early counter and then stands up the Blue Streaks for the rest of the match, grabbing a 1-0 ticket back to the Final Four.

Semi-Finals
Chicago is slated against the top-seeded Blue Jays from Johns Hopkins, who have made the Final Four by knocking out John Jay, Ct. College, Eastern and the defending champion Tufts Univ. Both teams are battle-tested and feature dynamic attacking movement and solid defenses, but Chicago has the advantage of having played in the Semi-Final spotlight for a couple of years now, and that experience tells in a 3-1 win for the Maroons.

Rochester lines up against an old foe in Messiah, who ended the Yellowjackets season two years ago en-route to their 11th National Championship title. Last year it was Rochester who finished the Falcon's season. This year the meeting comes in the semi-finals in Greensboro. Messiah owns the early possession and lines up several promising attacks, but can't get a score. Rochester plays themselves into the game, getting into dangerous positions but also unable to finish. The game goes into overtime with 0-0 on the scoreboard, and nothing changes after twenty extra minutes. In the PK shootout that follows, it's the underdog Rochester that finds the winner.

Final
A year after both UAA teams were ousted in the Semi-Finals, the same two squads now meet in the Final. It's a first for both programs but the Maroons are favorites, having dispatched Rochester in each of their last four meetings. The Yellowjackets have an experienced Senior class who have helped bring their program to new heights, but they've never solved Chicago. Both teams know each other and, since both teams were also on the same field last year, neither are made nervous by the environment. Chicago controls the early possession but its Rochester that strikes first by finishing off an attack that began life as a turnover in midfield. Chicago finds the net late in the first half but the goal is flagged for offsides, and it's 1-0 'Jackets at halftime. Soon after the restart Chicago gets their equalizer after some patient build-up play moves the UofR defense. The game then opens up and both sides find opportunities, Chicago converting first before Rochester ties things back up on a corner kick. The weather is cold and flurries appear with 10 min to go in regulation, but both teams are comfortable playing in snow. Neither though are comfortable with sitting-in when a National Championship is on the line, and the match takes on an almost frantic basketball flow. The attacks come in waves, and it looks like the game is destined for OT when one wave breaks thru...(to be continued).

Quote from: EastCoastSoccer on November 10, 2019, 12:02:26 PM
As for my Yellowjackets, a tie yesterday at Emory doesn't put them in a great spot to make the tournament. We will see what happens tomorrow. It's been a fun season watching the UAA. Even on a "down year" for the conference, the games were always competitive (except when playing Chicago).

I also had higher hopes for Rochester this season, but i am impressed that they were able to rescue a terrible position (0-3) to grab 2nd place (on tiebreakers). Character is what you are when the chips are down, and the chips were definitely down. I think they have more to do, and having watched every match i also think they haven't had their best game yet.  I like their chances with the selection committee thanks to win %, RvR and SOS and - should Hobart not win the LL today - head to head. But it'll be an exciting selection show on Monday that's for sure.