Quote from: Crawford on September 14, 2025, 08:06:05 PM

Quote from: Whitecarrera on September 13, 2025, 10:53:27 PM1988 - Benedictine (IL) (at that time it was Illinois Benedictine) blocked four kicks twice.

And I'm glad to see Wabash win, but I'll go on record saying that a game should NEVER be moved to a HS field. No basketball coach would consent to a HS 3Pt arc. No Volleyball coach would consent to a shorter net. No baseball coach would consent to a 75 ft base path. It wasn't the right decision when Wabash did it to Wittenberg in 2000, and it wasn't right today.

I can feel for CWU not wanting to risk two incomplete games, but Wabash has to do better. Get lights, or just accept the risk, but moving a game to a non-conforming field is unacceptable - should never even be considered an option.

Feels like you are trying to create a controversy where none belongs. I suspect both teams had to agree to move the game, so no issue. Also both teams were playing on the same new field, so no advance either way.  Both teams were attempting kicks into the slightly wider high school field goal posts, and CWR missed their attempt at the wider goal post, while Wabash's attempt was down the center, so no issue.  The hash marks being wider on a high school field were also the same for both teams, and neither school objected.  More importantly I'd rather Wabash focus on academics and paying their staff instead of paying for lights.

I agree with Crawford.  While having a lighted football field might be nice, since the lights are needed only once very 25 years, there are likely expenditures by Wabash that are higher priority.

Seems to me that the weather delay left Wabash and Case Western with 3 choices:
1. Suspend the game (which would have been 2 in a row for Case Western).
2. Delay the game and play it on Sunday.  (This would create logistical problems - where would the visiting team stay the night? How would they be able to get the visitor's uniforms washed so the players would not have to put back on sweaty gear?  The team would return to campus after 6.5 to 7 hour drive on Sunday from Crawfordsville and what would be the impact on their studies?
3. Resume play at the near-by lighted high school field to complete the game.

The Wabash - Case Western game was moved to the Crawfordsville High School field for the same reason that the Wabash - Wittenburg game was moved 25 years ago, the games were delayed by lightning.  The high school field has lighting and Wabash's field does not. Since it was likely that the delayed games would finish at or after dusk, the athletic center at Wabash lies to the west of the football field and the west end of the field, it would have been too dark to complete the game with the building blocking the sun light long before dusk.

Case Western played at Rowan the week before an encountered a similar weather delay. As there was no alternative field available to complete the game, it could not be completed.

Whitecarrera said the games should not have been moved.  Given the dark field at Wabash, what other alternative is there the Case Western - Rowan solution?

NESCAC1 - you got rather far afield from original post.  Yipper suggested that colleges with enrollment around 2,000 could not support a football team of 100 players.  I pointed out an example of a college with 900 students (albeit all male and generally the equivalent of a coed institution of approximately 2,000) which does and has had some success in the D3 playoffs. My point is that it is not impossible to do. A number of athletes do participate in more than one sport.

As will become evident next year when NESCAC starts participating in the playoffs, depth is a crucial factor to be successful in the playoffs.  A squad of 80 or so players will have trouble matching up with a squad of 150 as a team goes deeper into the playoffs. 

Of course there are many differences between Wabash and the NESCAC colleges, and I was not suggesting otherwise. I was just providing Yipper with an example of a school that has done what was being suggested as impossible.

Nescac1

I cited Wabash as an example of a school of around 900 students being able to field enough players for a football team to be able to have sufficient depth to be able to get into the third round of the playoffs.  Yipper had concluded that NESCAC schools of around 2000 students could not do so.  There are many differences between a Midwest college like Wabash and the NESCAC colleges, acceptance rates being just one, but having a squad of adequate size can be done.  Johns Hopkins has demonstrated that it can consistently have success in the D3 Playoffs and the NESCAC colleges could do likewise, but for arbitrary limitations on depth.  A squad of around 80 +/- can function for a 9 game season, but to have sufficient depth to go 14 games, where the opponents do have sufficient depth and only get better is going to place a limitation on the potential for success by the NESCAC colleges.  If you look at other men's and women's sports where NESCAC colleges are not unnecessarily handicapped, they have done quite well within D3 nationally.  Amherst's President who came from  Emory University certainly understands this.

Yipper

Wabash College in Indiana has an enrollment of 900 students and traditionally has had between 110 to 125 players on the football team. Since 2002, Wabash has been to the Division 3 playoffs a number of times.  While there a limits of around 60 players on the sidelines in the play-offs, when playing the regular season and the playoffs, it takes a lot of depth to be going strong at the end.  Just look at the roster sizes of North Central and Mount Union.  The NESCAC schools should give a good account of themselves ala John Hopkins, but not with inadequate depth. 

LumberCat is correct. The NESCAC has been following the Ivy League approach to football established in the 1920's.  A remarkable amount of progress has been made in recent years to bring the Conference into the 21st century.  For many years the NESCAC schools' reputations for strong academics and alumni networks that introduced graduates into the business world were strong enough to draw in players.  Today, other colleges are able to offer a lot to prospective students.  The coaches are pushing for a 21st century approach because they are experiencing a much greater degree of difficulty recruiting against other colleges.  The NESCAC beginning to participate in the Division 3 playoffs is a tremendous step forward.  The next steps of some relief on roster sizes will become self-evident as the NESCAC college begin to participate in the playoffs against college with rosters of 120 to 150 or more, as well as adding the 10th game against a non-conference opponent.  The NESCAC schools offer students so many wonderful opportunities, but it needs to be competitive.  Otherwise, the financial pandemic that is dragging other colleges down around the country will come knocking at its door.

Wabash and DePauw will play the 131st Monon Bell Game this fall.  There is no other rivalry game in Division 3 that matches the intensity of this game.  However when the two schools play for a spot in the Division 3 playoffs going to the winner, the intensity of the game increases exponentially.  Jumpshot, until you have experienced what the playoffs add to a rivalry game, you can not understand the difference.  Young men start play playing organized football as early as second or third grade.  Notwithstanding rivalry games, conference championships, state championships, every player in their heart of hearts wants to play for a national championship.  It is something they take with them for the rest of their lives.  During playoff weeks, football players are absolutely focused on being prepared both on the field and in the classroom. Since earning a return to the playoffs in 2002, the unforeseen consequences for the Little Giant football players has been nothing but positive.

Congrats to the NESCAC players and coaches for finally getting a ticket to the D3 playoffs.  We will see two immediate impacts - first, in recruiting, players with the academic credentials to be successful at NESCAC schools but wanting the opportunity to play for the National Championship will now have that opportunity in the NESCAC.  Second, a number of coaches in the NESCAC have had playoff experience at other schools and the learning curve won't be as large as we might imagine. One only has to look at Johns Hopkins to see that schools with high academic standards can be quite successful. Finally, it will become quite clear that the teams that are the usual top 6 or 8 teams each year, have size, depth, and experience and are really very good.

While theoretically a team with 80 players can challenge in the D3 playoffs, certainly John Hopkins demonstrated that it could get deep into the playoffs this year.  However, it takes depth to play a 15 game schedule.  I recall a playoff game between Wabash and Wisconsin Whitewater a few years ago that was close deep into the 3rd quarter.  However, in the later stages of that game, Whitewater's greater depth let them put fresh legs on the field late in the game and that made the difference. Whitewater also had a D-1 transfer at wide receiver that went on to play with the Green Bay Packers.  His talent, speed and height eventually wore down the Wabash defensive backs, and while that starting defensive backs had some success early, there wasn't enough depth to keep fresh legs on the field the whole game.

There is a roster limit for the D-3 playoffs.  Primarily because the NCAA pays for travel to these games.  Buses are used for travel up to 500 miles or so.  While North Central and Mount Union only had 58 on the sidelines for the Stagg Bowl, these school likely have up to 150 players or so on the team.  This results in significant depth for these programs. 

Quote from: NESCACFball24/7 on November 24, 2024, 05:23:30 PMAm I the only one wondering how these coaches are supposed to run a college practice with 85 players? That seems like a recipe to get kids hurt

Go ask Mount Union and North Central how they do it routinely with 140+ players.

The quality of the officials in the NESCAC is somewhat better this year. The glaring exceptions were the blatant missed calls in the Wesleyan Bowdoin game.  The video shows that Poy's return of the fumble was called a incomplete pass when the throw in question was clearly a lateral.  The SEC has the best refs in the country and the number 1 squad missed the interference call in the Texas Georgia game. Thank goodness the call was reversed.  Unfortunately, the NFL refs who had the experience to make calls have retired and the idiots in strips are so reliant on replays and calls from NFL headquarters, they can't make a call 5 feet in front of their faces.  The NESCAC refs on Saturday don't have replay or common sense, and the blew the fumble call by a mile.  These refs need to be better trained.  All the players in the NESCAC deserve to have their games called fairly and professionally.  That clearly did not happen on Saturday.

The only thing missing from the Wabash game at Oberlin on Sunday was the interpretive dancer at half time.

The old grandstands at Bowdoin not only have a nostalgic feel, but they provide nice shade on the sunny fall days in Maine as well giving shelter on the rainy days.  The new training and locker facilities are to notch and as nice as you will find at the top Division I schools albeit on a smaller scale.  All in all, Bowdoin is a great venue to enjoy a football game. Congrats to the AD, the alumni donors, and the others who planned the new stadium facilities.  The mix of the old and the new is unique, but a very good venue for spectators.

It would be difficult for the NESCAC to compete head on with some of the D-3 power houses given the caps on the number of players 75 or 82 or 84.  These schools have larger squads to have enough back up to play a 15 game schedule. (The regular season plus the playoffs.) The NESCAC has good players, but if it decides to compete on a more even footing with other D-3 schools by adding a 10th game against an out of conference opponent, and participating in the D-3 playoffs.  The squad caps will also need adjustment as well.  Who knows if such a day will ever come.  NESCAC teams do well in various D-3 playoffs.  It is a shame to see football treated as the unwanted child by NESCAC.  At least there is an opportunity for some spring practice which is so important to have a time to work on the skills needed for the various positions.