It's hard to believe that a quarter of the conference season is completed. Finals are progressing for most of the schools, with a short holiday break. Here are my thoughts for the key awards. I've seen most of the teams at least a little bit, but some discussion on various calls is deserved.

OPOY - Like many I've seen, I hate splitting the MVP award our into offense and defense. But, it is what it is. My selection so far for OPOY is Spencer Swanson of GAC. Swanson is a beast from both inside and outside. He can't be held inside with the little fade after he bullies his defender. He's shooting lights out from 3pt range. Having a real threat with him in Wyatt Olson gives Swanson a lot more freedom than previous years.

Other possibilities - Kobe Kirk STO, Luke Harris CAR, Bradley Cimperman HAM. However, I see these as distant possibilties at this time. Matt Johnson of CON might be in here as well, but there is so much balance on that team that I'm not certain Johnson can separate himself.

DPOY - I've said before that Austin Holt deserved this award last year. With Badou Ba injured for the season, this is a runaway.

ROY and COY - Undetermined

Other possibilities - Spencer Goetz CAR, Blake Berg SJU (who's still playing lights out offensively)

Conference winner I know SJU beat CON up there, but I'm not sold on SJU over the course of the season. CON has the best team overall, followed by GAC.

Playoff teams

1. Concordia (unless they have their usual swoon as the season goes on, this team should be hard to beat)
2. Gustavus (skilled at each position, with two of the best big men in the conference)
3. St. John's (I had them lower pre-season, but they are showing they are not to be ignored)
4. Carleton (If they find their identity, they have the talent to even get into the top 3)
5. Hamline (This is a team I had in the top 2 in the preseason, but something is going on chemistry-wise that's holding them back)
6. Bethel (I was not sold on MAC even before the Ba injury. Bethel has the skill to beat most teams on any night. Doely is a beast.)

Other teams in order

Macalester
St. Olaf
A battle to the bottom for Augsburg, St. Mary's and St. Scholastica. I think Scholastica could top the other two this season.

First conference games of the season last night. A lot of interesting games. I watched a few preseason and games last night. Here are some thoughts I have that might spur some conversation.

Top Players

- Spencer Swanson, Gustavus. Swanson has been balling out and is showing he is an indominable force both inside and out. His Dirk-like fadeaway is beautiful. Him and Wyatt Olson make a mean duo.

- Wyatt Olson, Gustavus. I saw him play a few times last season and his footwork in the post is sublime and quick. Add to that a good 3 point shot and Gustavus has a chance to do some great things. Killing St. Olaf in Northfield by almost 40 was a great start to conference.

- Luke Harris, Carleton. Harris continues to stymie defenses with his "I know it's coming, but I can't seem to stop it" drives to the rack. He might be taking too much of the load trying to replace Jeremy Beckler as the game against SJU last night showed how the good and not so good that can happen when he gets tunnel vision.

- Jacob Cook, Jackson Loge and Rowan Nelson, Concordia. Wow, what a front line! Add that with Matt Johnson and Concordia could be considered the favorite to win the conference after a few years of looking great on paper, but not closing. They looked great against Mac last night.

- Blake Berg, SJU. Something lit a fire under Berg in the offseason. He has been aggressive in his offense in Aberdeen and against Carleton. He can't be ignored now. With that in mind, what's going on with SJU moving away from Ryan Thissen in the offense? SJU has been more egalitarian to start the season compared to working to get Thissen mismatches in the post. Is this something that will happen over the course of the season or will SJU go back to Thissen after seeing what they have. Thissen only played 10 first half minutes against Carleton and didn't score in the first stanza.

- Austin Holt, Hamline. My coice for DPOY lat year (it wasn't even close, IMO) is continuing his success on both ends of the floor with Cimperman out (until last night). Hamline isn't getting the love they deserve and will contend for the championship.

Top Question Marks

- Macalester and Caleb Williams. With the injury to Badou Ba (I don't think he makes much of a difference against the better teams in the conference), MAC is a lot smaller. Also, despite the 41 Williams dropped against the U of M in their exhibition, he is a streaky volume shooter that can put MAC in the game or take them out just as easily. Will MAC develop a consistent 3rd scorer to be a factor?

- St. John's lack of big men. Over the last 5 years plus, SJU has had impactful big men. They don't this season. Luke Budzyn has a live body and must be accounted for on the glass, but this is a very guard heavy team. SJU might struggle to make the playoffs when all is said and done. We'll see.

- How low will St. Olaf go? Other than Kobe Kirk, there is no real impact player on the team. There's a freshman that might help, but they lack size after Kauls and have little quality shooting. I don't think any player outside of western Northfield feels badly for Connor Martin.

- Can Bethel put it together? Zach Doely is one of the top big men in the MIAC. Joey Kidder makes an impact on both ends. They have some sophs that made solid contributions last year that could make the leap. Look for Bethel to battle for a playoff spot.

- What will Carleton look like without Jeremy Beckler? Carleton has shown that they haven't figured out their identity without Beckler gluing it all together. Harris is putting the team on his back, but the movement and multi-player danger of last year isn't quite there yet. Their trip to CA this week will give them more answers. Don't discount the loss of Beck Page. He didn't quite make the national 3PG% boards, but he shot near 50% on the season on 2+ makes a game last year while playing solid defense and taking the ball to the rack. Matt Banovetz's play on offense will be key to their success.

Can Scholastica make another leap? Scholastica built on their home win total last year. Will they be able to take some games on the road and gain more respect? We'll see.

Quote from: AO on August 25, 2023, 05:51:26 PM

Quote from: MIACvet on August 24, 2023, 10:57:00 AM

Quote from: txg on June 06, 2023, 09:45:07 AM
Interesting.  I have to say, I'm not a fan.  I don't think whatever additional chance this creates for at-large NCAA berths (pretty small) is worth unbalanced conference schedules.

For this strategy to work, everyone has to crush their non-conference schedules, which is possible in the northeast where there are a ton of D3 teams to choose from, but out here there are only so many schools to play without traveling far.  The WIAC is much better, the ARC is better, and the UMAC is worse.  I don't see it.

I guess you can go to more in-season tournaments if you have the budget now.

I was just going in to see if anyone had posted recently and was hit by this conference comparison. What intrigues me is WHY the WIAC is that much better than the MIAC and others (I don't think the ARC is better than the MIAC by the way in quality or depth).

Is the WIAC better because:

- Tradition?
- Facilities?
- State school tuition and larger enrollments that attract players from WI, MN and IL?
- Coaching?
- Lack of a D2 conference which might pull worthy WI players?

I think it might have to do as much with the in-state and reciprocity tuition which provides a financially viable option for many. Also, kids that want to have an experience at a larger institution and play ball won't consider MIAC schools even if the basketball would be a good fit). That has fed a tradition where kids look to the WIAC as a viable option.

To the UMAC/MIAC debate, UNW and BL have arguably had quality years recently and have competed with the top of the MIAC (BLs transfers last season really bulked them up), but the depth overall is not what the MIAC has.

I don't think the WIAC is doing well just because they're taking Minnesota recruits.  College basketball is about getting the right coach who can attract a pretty small number of elite recruits. Nothing is guaranteed for any of those WIAC schools and the MIAC will continue to produce teams that are better than many WIAC programs. As for the MIAC vs UMAC being about depth, Martin Luther has really been the only school that's below anything from the MIAC as Northland did beat Scholastica last year.

I apologize if I made it sound like WIAC superiority is because MN kids are playing for WIAC schools. They have high quality WI kids that are not coming to MN and, in the case of a school like Whitewater, can do well from IL (plus they have high quality coaching and recruiting).

I agree that on any given night, the MIAC can take on much of the WIAC. However, there are two perennial programs (Oshkosh and Whitewater) and usually good LaCrosse that put the WIAC up above the MIAC. RF will come in and be good in many years. In terms of perception, the MIAC was a higher rated conference when UST and SJU were both in the top 10. With the lack of those national powers, the MIAC suffers in perception. However, I'll state here, it is marvelous basketball to watch if the refs don't mess it up. Even Scholastica (mentioned above) improved significantly over its first MIAC season.

That gets into the topic of MIAC parity with UST gone. I don't know if this will remain, but SJU has dipped while schools like MAC, SMU and Carleton rose up. Granted, these schools had/have superior studs leading them the last couple of years. SJU lost high quality players to other schools due to, what I'm hearing, not exactly up front communication by the staff. It will be interesting to see if a new balance of power builds over time and what that means for the conference overall.

Quote from: txg on June 06, 2023, 09:45:07 AM
Interesting.  I have to say, I'm not a fan.  I don't think whatever additional chance this creates for at-large NCAA berths (pretty small) is worth unbalanced conference schedules.

For this strategy to work, everyone has to crush their non-conference schedules, which is possible in the northeast where there are a ton of D3 teams to choose from, but out here there are only so many schools to play without traveling far.  The WIAC is much better, the ARC is better, and the UMAC is worse.  I don't see it.

I guess you can go to more in-season tournaments if you have the budget now.

I was just going in to see if anyone had posted recently and was hit by this conference comparison. What intrigues me is WHY the WIAC is that much better than the MIAC and others (I don't think the ARC is better than the MIAC by the way in quality or depth).

Is the WIAC better because:

- Tradition?
- Facilities?
- State school tuition and larger enrollments that attract players from WI, MN and IL?
- Coaching?
- Lack of a D2 conference which might pull worthy WI players?

I think it might have to do as much with the in-state and reciprocity tuition which provides a financially viable option for many. Also, kids that want to have an experience at a larger institution and play ball won't consider MIAC schools even if the basketball would be a good fit). That has fed a tradition where kids look to the WIAC as a viable option.

To the UMAC/MIAC debate, UNW and BL have arguably had quality years recently and have competed with the top of the MIAC (BLs transfers last season really bulked them up), but the depth overall is not what the MIAC has.

In the last year or two, the MIAC chose to allow graduates to play. You are right that they were prohibited in the past. I think COVID really created a mind shift on it.

As for Raheem, I heard that UST passed on him initially. Also, I don't think Raheem was out of place in D3, especially before this year. Before this year, he was an all conference player, but not even close to a D1 prospect. He worked his tail off to build the shooting and mental skills to put him in a place to play D1. Congratulations to him.

Quote from: jamtod on April 23, 2023, 08:46:55 AM

Quote from: GoldandBlueBU on April 21, 2023, 12:45:55 PM

Quote from: jamtod on April 19, 2023, 08:05:24 PM
Just saw that Raheem Anthony is transferring to St Thomas

Good for him!  bummer for St Mary's obviously, but he was out of place in D3.

I believe he's a grad transfer. At one point I believe the MIAC prohibited grad students from playing athletics (to level the playing field since not all schools offered grad programs?). Is that actually (or still) the case?

Quote from: AO on March 20, 2023, 03:17:34 PM

Quote from: MIACvet on March 20, 2023, 02:29:05 PM

Quote from: AO on March 20, 2023, 12:13:26 PM

I really like the UMAC 9 non-conference games giving teams a chance to do a couple tournaments and schedule a lot of fun matchups, but I'd also hate to see the double round-robin go away.  It's the most fair way to determine the champ and better for travel costs and maintaining rivalries.  It really shouldn't matter who is on your schedule but rather how you performed against that schedule.  Massey thought Carleton's strength of schedule was much tougher than the NCAA did because the NCAA just ignores all of the data about what the scores actually were.

Having 9 teams is key for the UMAC and their ability to get more N/C games. The MIAC is the only 11 team conference in the country that has a double round robin. I agree it's a more equitable way to determine who is best in the conference. However, if the goal is to get 2 or even 3 bids from the conference (which coaches care about), either their has to be previous dominance from two teams like UST/SJU or they change the structure.

Here's an interesting question. What do the players really care about? What will they hold close to them 10-20 years after they're done? Is it a conference championship or taking 2nd or 3rd and getting to play one game in the NCAA? Maybe that answer is different for players in the MIAC and WIAC at this particular time. If the MIAC reaches a level where it's plausible to have champions or final 4 teams come out of it (and not just one team like UST), would the current answer change? I would state currently that players care more about a conference championship and hold that memory in their hearts forever.

One interesting note, I heard from my son's coach that wins against very poor teams like Martin Luther at their place actually has a negative multiplier placed on it by the NCAA.

Quote from: AO on March 20, 2023, 12:13:26 PM

If this is about no at-large bids, even if Carleton had needed one, that's just about too much parity in the league this year meaning the 2nd place team racked up a bunch of losses, and the NCAA not having good enough criteria to judge strength of schedule.

@AO, you bring up a good point. There was no case for the MIAC to get two bids, unless Carleton lost (however, if St. Mary's made the final, a case could be made to talk about them in a normal year with normal bid thieves because of their North Park and LaCrosse wins). That's where the conversation comes in.

There was a lot of discussion in the Twitterverse and podcasts about Carleton's SOS and how things are different than when SJU/UST ruled the roost. I think there might have been discussions on this board before, but the aspect that the MIAC can only have 5 non-conference games, have cost considerations in scheduling them and plays a true double round-robin conference schedule hurts the conference SOS. Carleton played a Whitworth team that made the tourney last year, Carroll who plays in one of the top conferences, CCIW, but was last in it, as well as Northwestern who made the tourney last year and Bethany Lutheran who won the conference this year. They also played one of the worst teams in the country in Martin Luther at their place.

I sound like a whiner, but a team like Carleton who ran through a quality league and played mostly decent teams in non-con should have gotten some eye-test looks if they didn't win the tournament (bid thiefs this year aside). I have wondered about a Big Ten - ACC Challenge type of format for the MIAC and WIAC. Maybe the WIAC wouldn't be too interested in that since they are on another level. But, playing similarly slotted teams could help both conferences. It's not reasonable to believe MIAC teams could schedule a beast non-conference schedule of East Coast teams that should be good on a consistent basis, unless you have the financial resources of SJU and UST to drive that narrative.

There was talk about how coaches want to do away with the double round-robin to allow for building a stronger SOS. Travel costs and being taken away from studies for the extra 5 games, I imagine, is the main stumbling block.

Thanks for replying and extending the discussion.

Quote from: SagatagSam on March 20, 2023, 11:43:40 AM
First off, welcome to the board. It can get rather quiet here, especially during the off season, but we are happy to have you.

The conference awards were frustrating this year to say the least. I don't have much input beyond what has already been articulated.

As for the officiating, I'm not completely sold that it is absolutely terrible. Perhaps I go easy on the refs because I am one myself. Granted, I am in my first season and only do high school sub-varsity now, but doing the job seems to make you more empathetic toward those that do. I didn't necessarily think the officials were allowing a lot of rough play in my narrow observation of conference games this season. The statistics are what the statistics are, and it seems to bear out your point that the guys that officiate MIAC games let them play a little more. Were there plenty of bad calls? Sure. Always have been, always will be.

From what I understand D3 is a tough draw for refs because it pays only slightly more than high school and the pressure is substantially greater. Everyone automatically thinks that these should be the greatest refs in the world simply because it is a college game. The better refs are getting D2 and D1 games--and even those guys make their fair share of mistakes. From a money and infrastructure standpoint, I don't think the conference can devote a ton of resources to officiating.

@Sagatag, first of all, congratulations on becoming a ref. There aren't enough of them getting into the profession. I kinda wish I got into it after I was done playing. You are right around the pay issues. I remember talking to a MIAC coach and he said the pay (a few years ago) was around $150 a game - not life changing.

I'm not certain the pressure is substantially greater. I say that not to dismiss your opinion. Why I say the pressure may not be that much more is because the level of play is much higher than HS varsity or below. Collegiate players know they game a lot more and the coaches are much better versed on the process. The speed of the game is much higher, but for a few exceptions possibly, the refs currently there are not overwhelmed by the pace or intensity.

In my years of watching the MIAC, refs are not missing calls any less or more than other refs. That happens at every level. There are intentional choices made to not call fouls for various reasons and it is across the board with games. That leads me to believe there are discussions about how a game is to be called.

I have also seen a good amount of overt disrespect of coaches by referees which really gets me. Active dismissal of talking with a coach. Making faces to others about a coach after an interaction. Straight up denial on obvious calls. I've been around the game for over 45 years as a player and a coach and have seen a wide variety of capabilities and effort.

You make an interesting point about D2 and D1. I would think refs that make it up to that level would have to gain experience at the D3 level in order to be considered for assignment into those higher levels. That leads me to think there would be some more fresh blood in the MIAC ranks. There appears to be some, but not as much there could be. Maybe that is an area where the profession in the state can take a more active role in helping recruit, support and develop referee talent. I know assigners in this state and haven't learned much about intentional work being done in this area or with school/association administration supporting refs by keeping unruly fans (i.e. parents and students) from unjustly getting on them. Supporting refs at the youth and HS level to build skills will build a great stable of officials.

Hello. I'm new to using this board, so I apologize if this doesn't look right. I've been following the board since my son started in the MIAC. Since he's out now, I am more comfortable in posting.

First of all, I enjoy the conversations on the board and wish there were more people participating. It seems as though there were more UST posters.

Secondly, I hate to do this, but I'd like to flame on the MIAC awards and refereeing with my first post.

In order of descending anger, here are my thoughts on the awards.

1. Austin Holt got absolultely screwed for DPOY. Badou Ba has defensive skills, but he didn't do the following:
- Guard Raheem Anthony AND Jeremy Beckler all night and hold them down. Who takes on the best 2 players in the league (who are both All-Americans) who play two different positions?
- Lead the conference in steals AS A 5!
- Lead the conference in rebounding, including getting a ridiculous 21 in one game.

Badou was BENCHED by Coach Abe in the first game against Carleton when Beckler lit him up and Carleton was up 25. He then got switched onto Banovetz in the second matchup and had Banovetz drop 20 and 11 on him while Beckler had 29 with 7-11 from three.

In the first Hamline matchup, Holt had 21 and 18 against Ba which Ba had 5 and 5. The second matchup saw Holt get 16 and 14 with Ba going for 8 and 7. Holt is a beast on both ends. This snub was exacerbated with him not getting All-District honors.

Ba could guard the poor players in the conference and block shots from the weakside against bad teams. He is not worthy of DPOY!

2. How do Bethel and Concordia get the same number of All-Conference selections as Carleton, who won the conference by 4 games? Granted, those that got the awards, IMHO, are quality players. But, how does Joey Kidder get a nod playing a shortened season? How is Rowan Nelson more impactful that Matt Banovetz? Speaking of which, why is Nathan Hendler on the squad? Nelson is more deserving than Hendler and Banovetz tops both of them.

You can't have conference dominance like Carleton and not have All-Conference dominance.

3. The new category structure is awful. I've talked with some on the reasoning for this change. Apparently, it was done to be more equitable with other sports. I get that desire, but trying to be equitable between basketball and swimming doesn't make sense. They are different categories and measures of success. They even took out the Sportsmanship award away. How stupid is that? Sixth man? That's a critical role in basketball and shouldn't have been sacrificed in the name of equity. It shows the humility of someone to fil that role when they could/should start.

There should have been a MVP award. This would be intersting between Anthony and Beckler (Holt would deserve some small consideration). While Anthony played incredibly well, and improved his shooting by leaps and bounds, he fouled out of critical games against Carleton and Hamline with stupid fouls. His 3rd and 5th fouls against Hamline in the playoffs doomed their season. Anthony, while being the most dominant offensive player, was not great on the defensive side. Beckler was the only player to average 22 and 5 with 50/40/80 splits in all of D3 and was one of 5 in all of college BB. Of those 5, he was the only one with 2 assists and a half a block. He also had 0.6 steals. Not huge ancillary numbers, but it shows he did it on the other end as well. Best player on best team that won by 4 games.

Now, the refereeing!

7 MIAC schools are in the top 50 in fewest fouls per game in the nation. How does that happen?!?!? There is only one plausible reason and it's not because the players are that clean.

HORRIBLE REFEREEING. It's obvious that the refs choose not to call fouls that need calling. It makes the games bully ball and much harder to watch and play. The lack of interest by a majority of referees to engage with the players and coaches shows their lack of professionalism. I've even seen significant arrogances with referees towards coaches, players and the process. The conference has to do much better in guiding the referees in how the game should be called.

One other item, on a positive note. The talent of the players in this conference is high. I played in the conference in the 80s and am so impressed with the skill, athleticism and commitment of these student-athletes. The conference, without St. Thomas, may be down nationally, but had a balance that makes it very exciting. It is great to see teams like St. Mary's and Macalester rise in the ranks based on the energy of their head coaches. Although Augsburg faced the deathblow of Palmer leaving, they couldn't be overlooked on any night. Talent is getting spread across teams and I'm looking forward to following them in the future.

Also, nationally, how does a conference get so looked down on, yet have two All-Americans in Anthony and Beckler?

Thanks for allowing me to vent (although only the modeator has a choice of letting this through).