D3 Top 25 Fan Poll

[olddog]

Pat,

I have had family that recently played in their conference, I dont know how many games you have seen? ...I have seen many games in the Frontier Conference, the level of play is better than the NWC and SCIAC...their league is one of the better NAIA leagues too.
We can agree to disagree...more kids get pro looks out of that conference than NWC. The talent is just a little better.

[Pat Coleman]

Pat,

I have had family that recently played in their conference, I dont know how many games you have seen? ...I have seen many games in the Frontier Conference, the level of play is better than the NWC and SCIAC...their league is one of the better NAIA leagues too.
We can agree to disagree...more kids get pro looks out of that conference than NWC. The talent is just a little better.

And yet, last year, Whitworth beat Eastern Oregon by 12 and finished right at No. 25 in our poll.

This year, losing to Eastern Oregon, it's eminently reasonable for our voters to think perhaps they don't belong in the poll right now.

[olddog]

Pat, last year is not relevant...EO lost to (I will be a reporter)...26th rated NAIA school College of Idaho at Simplot, which is not an easy place to play...County Fair grounds, beer garden and fans in the north end zone. The place gets a little crazy, not like playing at Ted Runner. This year they catch an improved EO at EO...in a close game. The loss to EO is like losing to a top 25 team in D3...again this is exactly why I am not a fan of polls, so many factors other than football.

[Captainred81]

So is your point that losing to a team that they beat last year by 12, shouldn't count because that school gives out scholarships?  And all this to say you don't like polls because their is more to each game than the final result? 

I'm not quite following. 

[wally_wabash]

In the Bill Connelly top 766, EOU is in a cluster of teams that include Salve Regina, Western Connecticut, MSJ, ONU, and Heidelberg.  If our No. 23 loses to one of those teams, they're gonna slide out of the top 25.  Of course, the top 766 isn't a perfect science, but it gives you an idea of how teams from different divisions compare.  Whitworth, fwiw, is still ranked 80 spots higher in the 766 than EOU.  So the 766 sees that result as a pretty big upset. 

[Pat Coleman]

The loss to EO is like losing to a top 25 team in D3.

Like losing to a Top 10 team?
A 11-15 team?
A 16-20 team?
A 21-25 team?

"Losing to a Top 25 team in D3" means so many different possible things that it is essentially meaningless. Eastern Oregon is not ranked in the NAIA Top 25, College of Idaho is ranked 24th in the VSN poll out of what appears to be 95 teams, way less than half of the number of teams in D-III.

[hazzben]

Pat, last year is not relevant...

You just made reference to all the Frontier games you've seen historically and how it's a better conference than the NWC and SCIAC. So, you're allowed to grade a conference by past results, but pollsters can't look at how EO finished one year ago and say, that's a bad loss. I'll admit I don't follow the Frontier. But I've watched Morningside, Dordt, Northwestern, and Grandview play probably 40+ games all told over the last 8-10 years (majority in the playoffs against other top NAIA teams, about 5 in person). Those are teams that have won multiple NAIA national titles, played in more national title games and final fours, and been consistently ranked in the top 15 (if not top 5) of the NAIA poll. D3 top teams compare very favorably to NAIA top teams.

Getting a 1/4 scholarship from an NAIA school is often less aid than guys get from a top D3 school. UWW and Morningside had some great battles a decade ago. I don't think anything's changed since then. Except that NCC might be even better right now than some of the top teams from that era.