FB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Bofadeeznuts]

Word spread pretty quickly here in oshkosh. Looks and sounds like people are confused. Dont know if they are celebrating a national championship or pissed that they got cheated by playing  an opponent with a player that recieved improper benefits from an oil tycoon dare in Texas. Rumors here are Jerry Jones is involved. The car was filled Easter egg candy. And the coach's wife was found in the trunk, bound and lathered up with what cops say was a milky white substance.
That's what I'm hearing right now.
As of right now, cars are tipped over and on fire on main st. House parties on Wisconsin Ave. Wait. That might be normal. That happens every night.
Currently I am joining the crowd running up and down Cherry st.
My pants and shirt are off. We're heading to Kelly's.
Chants of USA, USA, USA. And MVP, MVP, MVP ring out.

Probably should call in sick right now for Friday.
God speed

[Bofadeeznuts]

UWO 22- UWSP 18  for Saturday. Book it. I cover the (-3) spread. But lose on the over. Should have factored in the -21 degrees on Saturday.

[emma17]

UWO 22- UWSP 18  for Saturday. Book it. I cover the (-3) spread. But lose on the over. Should have factored in the -21 degrees on Saturday.

I like that score.
Btw, and no offense intended, whenever I see your name I think of Joey Bag Of Donuts. Whether you meant it or not, it always makes me laugh.

[emma17]

I haven't listened to the podcast yet, perhaps the below was covered already.

A lot has been posted that the punishment doesn't match the infraction, that may be true. That said, I feel there has been a general discounting of the infractions and the potential benefits derived. I'll say this much, as much as I love LL, if he had given a car, any car (it makes no difference what year, model or make it was) to a recruit, and then allowed the recruit-turned student athlete to continue using the car, I would be extremely disappointed as a fan and supporter of the program. In UMHB's case, did the player make the difference in winning and losing games and the championship? Likely not, but I don't think that's the filter for deciding punishment.

Below are three excerpts from the report:

The institution accepted all but one of the additional penalties, a vacation of wins and records. UMHB contested the vacation through a written submission in lieu of an expedited hearing. In its written submission challenging the penalty, the institution argued that the head coach and student-athlete 1 were not aware that the provision of a car by a coach to a student-athlete violated NCAA rules, thus the violation was inadvertent. UMHB also argued that the violations did not result in a competitive advantage. The COI is not persuaded. While the head coach may not have been aware that his provision of a car to a student-athlete was a violation, the conduct itself was, regardless, intentional.

This violation occurred over a lengthy period of time—approximately a year and-a-half. Moreover, the head coach had been in his position for over 20 years. Although the head coach claimed he was not aware that he was committing a violation by providing a car to student athlete, thus the violation was "inadvertent," the parties agreed in the SDR that he "should have known." Regardless of whether the violation was inadvertent, the head coach's direct involvement in providing use of a car to student-athletes strengthens the justification for prescribing a vacation of records in this case.

A vacation of records is appropriate in this case because ineligible competition occurred and the head coach was directly involved in violations. In this and other similar cases, the vacation of records serves the exact purposes for which the penalty is intended: to foster accountability, restore fairness and deter future violations

[badgerwarhawk]

So they didn't know it was a violation and no one bothered to check to see if it was or wasn't for over a year.  One would think if they didn't know for certain they would take the time to find out beforehand.  And, personally, I don't believe anyone with over 20 years experience in NCAA football doesn't know it's a violation to give a player something like a car.  That just doesn't make sense to me.

[02 Warhawk]

So they didn't know it was a violation and no one bothered to check to see if it was or wasn't for over a year.  One would think if they didn't know for certain they would take the time to find out beforehand.  And, personally, I don't believe anyone with over 20 years experience in NCAA football doesn't know it's a violation to give a player something like a car.  That just doesn't make sense to me.

And someone on his staff warned him about doing it!!!!

[WW]

So they didn't know it was a violation and no one bothered to check to see if it was or wasn't for over a year.  One would think if they didn't know for certain they would take the time to find out beforehand.  And, personally, I don't believe anyone with over 20 years experience in NCAA football doesn't know it's a violation to give a player something like a car.  That just doesn't make sense to me.

And someone on his staff warned him about doing it!!!!

Ya, that story doesn't hold up. The problem with this punishment is who cares? They have the moment and the memories. A banner comes down? Big deal.

[wally_wabash]

A vacation of records is appropriate in this case because ineligible competition occurred and the head coach was directly involved in violations. In this and other similar cases, the vacation of records serves the exact purposes for which the penalty is intended: to foster accountability, restore fairness and deter future violations

I know the COI has to ride by this stuff but the penalty is supposed to:

1- Foster accountability: I mean, I guess.  I think Fredenburg has taken responsibility for this on the record several times and served a self-imposed suspension.  They did that without the vacation of records. 

2- Restore fairness: I don't think anybody actually questions whether or not UMHB's results were the result of unfair play.  Do they?  None of this is about on-field play, right? 

3- Deter future violations: I just don't think the vacation of past records has one ounce of impact on future conduct.  Not any more so than the steps UMHB and Coach Fredenburg took when owning the violation in the first place. 

[emma17]

So they didn't know it was a violation and no one bothered to check to see if it was or wasn't for over a year.  One would think if they didn't know for certain they would take the time to find out beforehand.  And, personally, I don't believe anyone with over 20 years experience in NCAA football doesn't know it's a violation to give a player something like a car.  That just doesn't make sense to me.

And someone on his staff warned him about doing it!!!!

Ya, that story doesn't hold up. The problem with this punishment is who cares? They have the moment and the memories. A banner comes down? Big deal.

I think there are quite a few UMHB fans that care, but I get your point.

I wish I hadn't read the report. Prior to reading it I felt comfortable saying the punishment was egregious. Having read the report, I'm truly baffled a head coach of 20 years didn't know it was wrong to do it.

I hope clarifying information comes out that better explains his initial position of not knowing.

[hazzben]

3- Deter future violations: I just don't think the vacation of past records has one ounce of impact on future conduct.  Not any more so than the steps UMHB and Coach Fredenburg took when owning the violation in the first place.

Isn't the deterrent the fact that the broken down 2006 subaru is now 3 years older ... Sorta like, that car is so bad, driving actually makes me want to transfer out! 

[bleedpurple]

So they didn't know it was a violation and no one bothered to check to see if it was or wasn't for over a year.  One would think if they didn't know for certain they would take the time to find out beforehand.  And, personally, I don't believe anyone with over 20 years experience in NCAA football doesn't know it's a violation to give a player something like a car.  That just doesn't make sense to me.

And someone on his staff warned him about doing it!!!!

Ya, that story doesn't hold up. The problem with this punishment is who cares? They have the moment and the memories. A banner comes down? Big deal.

I agree with Emma's post above. Very little would ever disappoint me more than UW-W getting caught up in something like this. And I agree with BW. Hard to believe Coach Pete didn't at least check into whether lending a car to an athlete/potential athlete violated the NCAA rules.

But having said all that, I still think the penalty was too harsh given the fact that UMHB self reported. And I do think the punishment is real, WW. In my view, the problem with the punishment is that it primarily affects those that had ,nothing to do with the violation. All those in the program who did nothing wrong. I get in our community, people can say "We saw the game, we will always know UMHB won the championship". But a National Championship is far more reaching than these boards. 

This decision by the NCAA changes the narrative for those on that CRU team FOREVER (unless overturned). "My dad is a National Champion", "No he's not, I googled it and there is no champion in 2016". The envious jerk brother in-law with one too many drinks in him reminds the CRU player that "Your ring is meaningless". And on and on and on. On the surface it seems meaningless, but this ruling changes the narrative in a way that is really unfortunate in my mind.

[emma17]

Isn't It true that most NCAA imposed punishments impact players and coaches that had nothing to do with the infraction?

Do we know who the player was? There seem to be many posters saying the infraction didn't provide an on field advantage.

[Bofadeeznuts]

I'm not sure what the problem is with following rules. Why is it so hard? It's pretty simple really.

And yes. There WAS an on the field advantage. Just got done watching the game again. It's hard to notice, but that 1984 Suburu was on the sidelines, running. Heater on high. Players going in and out.
Brett Kasper wasn't able to warm his body.
UWO NATIONAL CHAMPS!!!!!! YES!!!!!

[WW]

UWO 22- UWSP 18  for Saturday. Book it. I cover the (-3) spread. But lose on the over. Should have factored in the -21 degrees on Saturday.

I'm leaning Pointers. Just a little too skeptical about UWO line play on a day when the bigs figure to matter more.

[bleedpurple]

Isn't It true that most NCAA imposed punishments impact players and coaches that had nothing to do with the infraction?

Yes. And in my view, that's a problem. Should there have been a penalty of
Some sort? Sure. Should all those guys be affected like that? Not in my opinion, no.