FB: American Rivers Conference

[Thunderbolt]

You have 6 teams from the North in the top 15 and 9 in the top 22. There is no problem with the depth of the North Region what so ever. Are you forgetting the OAC is in the North also? The only way you have room to move a team from the West to the North is to move teams out of the North. Some teams need to move South and East.

[hazzben]

If UWW, Linfield, SJU, Central all win out, I see MUC getting moved East, UWW North and then SJU or Central would vie for 1 2 seeds

Not sure I agree.  You're forgetting about Wheaton in the North.

1-  Wheaton is ranked above SJU and Central.  It would make more sense for the Committee to move MUC East in order to give Wheaton the #1 ranking in the North.
2-  Wheaton is a natural North team, UWW is a natural West team.
3-  Wheaton's only losses in the playoffs have been to MUC.  That is a bold statement and I think the committee may like the prospect of giving the 3rd ranked team in the country a bracket where they don't have MUC until the semi's or later.
4-  As it stands right now, the committee can move only MUC north and will end up with the top 4 ranked teams in the country each with a number one seed. 
5-  Unfortunately, this means the West would be a meat-grinder, 5 of the top 9 teams nationally is just insane.  However, they could easily move a team like Monmouth North to give some more balance.
6- Regional rankings will be a key to getting clarity on how things will shake out.  Keep in mind, Pool C looks to be very strong this year, with UMHB at the top along with some potentially very strong 2 loss teams.
7- All this is assuming SJU, Central, UWW, MUC, Wheaton, Linfield, Monmouth, Wesley etc. all win out.  I'm guessing at least one of these teams stumbles over the final 4 weeks, along with some other teams who are on the bubble.  But this is what makes it all so exciting.

Good points, but the fact of the matter is the North just isnt as deep as the West. Thats all there is too it. So moving one of our possible top seeds, SJU, UWW, Central, Linfield (all saying they go undefeated), to the North only makes sense when the North has nowhere near that amount of depth.

Several problems with moving a possible West seed.

1st: The North is actually pretty deep.  Consider: 1-MUC 3- Wheaton 10- Otterbein 12- Case Western Reserve 13- North Central 14- Capital 18- Wabash 20- Ohio Northern 21-Wittenberg 22- Franklin.  Granted, MUC could easily get moved East and some of these teams probably won't finish this high (e.g. Wheaton v. N.C. will drop one of them at least a little, etc.)  But that still leaves 7 or more quality ranked teams in this region, not to mention the automatic bids from weaker conferences like the MIAA.  The North is already pretty crowded and deep.  Granted, not as top-heavy as the West, but still a lot of quality teams.

2nd: You can't forget the travel issue for 1st round games - NCAA stipulates teams must be within 500 miles.  That eliminates Linfield outright and probably SJU and Central as well.  UWW is really the only feasible West team to move North.

3rd: UWW would be the clear #1 seed at this point in the West.  Why does the committee move them North and deny Wheaton, as things stand now, a #1 seed in the North?  Plus, that would put 2 of the top 4 teams in the same region.  The recent past has shown us that the committee tends to start the process by building around their top seeds.  Provided they feel Wheaton, MUC, UWW and Wesley are the top 4, history would seem to suggest they will build 4 regions around these teams.

However, I totally agree that it would suck for the West and produce a bloodbath.  In an ideal world, MUC and two other North region teams would get moved into the East (by far the weakest region), making room for Wheaton and a few tough West region teams in the North.  But that just isn't ever going to happen because of travel restrictions and automatic bids in the East, North and West from weaker conferences.  All that said, I still think the system is pretty fair in the end.

[Kohawk Remedy]

Ill tak over 40 on the Dubuqe Wartburg game, not much defense here.

40...is that the over/under on the number of catches Zweifel's kid will have this week?  If so...over.   

I'm curious if anyone has tried to press cover / bump and run Zweifel -  he's got great hands, maybe slightly better than average speed but doesn't appear to be terribly physical.  I can tell from  watching a train wreck you aren't going to sit in Tampa 2 and give 10 yard cushion and do anything but help him set records.  Oh that's right Simpson did help him set 2 records.  I was pretty disappointed we didn't try something / anything different after say his first 10 catches.   Put your best athlete on him, knock the crap out of him coming off the line and then jump in his jock and stay there.

wtf???  only a simpson fan would think of this

[DutchHawk]

True good points, I admittedly dont know the geography all that well but Wheaton as it stands gets at 2 seed, with MUC obviously getting a 1. This is obviously very early in the conversation but to say.

The north is deep, however 8 of the top 19 teams do come from the west. 50% of the current top ten is West Region.

As far as it goes there is no truly fair way to do it because of travel restrictions, that said I doubt all these teams mentioned win out, someone will falter (not the Dutch ) and clear things up a little bit.

[Mr. Ypsi]

True good points, I admittedly dont know the geography all that well but Wheaton as it stands gets at 2 seed, with MUC obviously getting a 1. This is obviously very early in the conversation but to say.

The north is deep, however 8 of the top 19 teams do come from the west. 50% of the current top ten is West Region.

As far as it goes there is no truly fair way to do it because of travel restrictions, that said I doubt all these teams mentioned win out, someone will falter (not the Dutch ) and clear things up a little bit.

I'd agree that this conversation is at least a couple week's premature, but it's fun anyway!

One West candidate for a move you're all forgetting is undefeated #9 Monmouth - after all they are in Illinois!

Two HUGE games in the North that will sort things out a bit: Wheaton vs. NCC (I'll be picking NCC) and Capital vs. Otterbein (my pick is Capital).  IF Wheaton wins (and continues winning), they are certainly worthy of a #1.  Otherwise, the winner of either game is IMO strong enough to deserve a #1, but no one-loss team is gonna get one (Ott is undefeated, but still has the Mount in their future).  Case Western is (and is likely to remain) undefeated, but their schedule is too weak to merit a #1.

I'll be back for more after Saturday's games!

[hazzben]

True good points, I admittedly dont know the geography all that well but Wheaton as it stands gets at 2 seed, with MUC obviously getting a 1. This is obviously very early in the conversation but to say.

The north is deep, however 8 of the top 19 teams do come from the west. 50% of the current top ten is West Region.

As far as it goes there is no truly fair way to do it because of travel restrictions, that said I doubt all these teams mentioned win out, someone will falter (not the Dutch ) and clear things up a little bit.

I'd agree that this conversation is at least a couple week's premature, but it's fun anyway!

One West candidate for a move you're all forgetting is undefeated #9 Monmouth - after all they are in Illinois!

Two HUGE games in the North that will sort things out a bit: Wheaton vs. NCC (I'll be picking NCC) and Capital vs. Otterbein (my pick is Capital).  IF Wheaton wins (and continues winning), they are certainly worthy of a #1.  Otherwise, the winner of either game is IMO strong enough to deserve a #1, but no one-loss team is gonna get one (Ott is undefeated, but still has the Mount in their future).  Case Western is (and is likely to remain) undefeated, but their schedule is too weak to merit a #1.

I'll be back for more after Saturday's games!

Good point on Monmouth and their location.  However, moving Monmouth verses moving UWW is night and day.  UWW is likely a #1, Monmouth would be a #5 seed in the West as things stand in the top 25.  I'd rather see UWW move North personally, but Monmouth is maybe more realistic.  But there is a whole lot more season to play and I'd actually like to see some crazy upsets throw everything off...

[Mr. Ypsi]

True good points, I admittedly dont know the geography all that well but Wheaton as it stands gets at 2 seed, with MUC obviously getting a 1. This is obviously very early in the conversation but to say.

The north is deep, however 8 of the top 19 teams do come from the west. 50% of the current top ten is West Region.

As far as it goes there is no truly fair way to do it because of travel restrictions, that said I doubt all these teams mentioned win out, someone will falter (not the Dutch ) and clear things up a little bit.

I'd agree that this conversation is at least a couple week's premature, but it's fun anyway!

One West candidate for a move you're all forgetting is undefeated #9 Monmouth - after all they are in Illinois!

Two HUGE games in the North that will sort things out a bit: Wheaton vs. NCC (I'll be picking NCC) and Capital vs. Otterbein (my pick is Capital).  IF Wheaton wins (and continues winning), they are certainly worthy of a #1.  Otherwise, the winner of either game is IMO strong enough to deserve a #1, but no one-loss team is gonna get one (Ott is undefeated, but still has the Mount in their future).  Case Western is (and is likely to remain) undefeated, but their schedule is too weak to merit a #1.

I'll be back for more after Saturday's games!

Good point on Monmouth and their location.  However, moving Monmouth verses moving UWW is night and day.  UWW is likely a #1, Monmouth would be a #5 seed in the West as things stand in the top 25.  I'd rather see UWW move North personally, but Monmouth is maybe more realistic.  But there is a whole lot more season to play and I'd actually like to see some crazy upsets throw everything off...

Yeah, obviously Monmouth and UWW are not equivalent moves!   But it is something to clear the log jam (if upcoming Saturdays don't clear it anyway).

IF Wheaton remains undefeated, I think moving UWW in would be a travesty.  If they falter, I still wouldn't like it, but couldn't really protest.  (In 2007 we thought we'd gotten a good deal when MUC was replaced by UWW - then that turns out to be the Stagg the Warhawks win!  Thanks for nothin', selection committee! )

[Mr. Ypsi]

BTW, to keep this 'logjam' in the West in perspective: last year's 'Midwest/West' basketball national tourney had the #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, and #7 (and at least 5? others from the top 25) all in the same quadrant!  You've got a LONG way to go to match that 'Section of Death'!   (As expected, the Sectional semis and final were MUCH more competitive than the 'Final Four'.)

[AZDutchman]

Central Dutch Fans
thought you may like to see...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0GhHz9Y48
(may have audio problems)

[dutchfan1]

Central Dutch Fans
thought you may like to see...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG0GhHz9Y48
(may have audio problems)

Nice work.

[Voice of the Dutch]

What about moving Central to the North?

Assuming the MUC is getting shipped East - this allows UWW to stay #1 in the West and Wheaton gets the #1 in the North.

Of the ranked teams in the North, Central is within 500 miles of 4 of the schools...

Wheaton 291 miles
North Central 287 miles
Wabash 408 miles
Franklin 479 miles

Ship Central and Monmouth both to the North...#2 Central vs. #7 Wabash and #3 Monmouth vs. #6 North Central or something like that...and then the 2nd round matchup is still within the 500 miles...and a likely #1 Wheaton vs. Central/Monmouth also falls within that range.

I realize I'm talking WAAAAAAAAAY ahead - but that's the fun of the message boards, right?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Dutch Radio,

I thought of just about that scenario, but was too lazy to look up the mileages!   I was sure Central was also a viable mover, but didn't realize they'd be that close to so many schools.

Both Wheaton and NCC still have to come to Bloomington to face my 5-1 Titans, so we're still way premature (I hope! ).

[Goal Line Stand]

Good point on Monmouth and their location.  However, moving Monmouth verses moving UWW is night and IF Wheaton remains undefeated, I think moving UWW in would be a travesty.  If they falter, I still wouldn't like it, but couldn't really protest.  In 2007 we thought we'd gotten a good deal when MUC was replaced by UWW - then that turns out to be the Stagg the Warhawks win!  Thanks for nothin', selection committee!

Considering the Warhawks had played in two previous Staggs, not quite sure why anyone would think there was going to be much of a drop off there. Maybe good deal is too strong a word to use.  How about....................... you thought you were getting a slightly better deal?  8)

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good point on Monmouth and their location.  However, moving Monmouth verses moving UWW is night and IF Wheaton remains undefeated, I think moving UWW in would be a travesty.  If they falter, I still wouldn't like it, but couldn't really protest.  In 2007 we thought we'd gotten a good deal when MUC was replaced by UWW - then that turns out to be the Stagg the Warhawks win!  Thanks for nothin', selection committee!

Considering the Warhawks had played in two previous Staggs, not quite sure why anyone would think there was going to be much of a drop off there. Maybe good deal is too strong a word to use.  How about, you thought you were getting a slightly better deal?  8)

Good point!  But after having MUC win the North seemingly forever, ANY change seemed 'good'!

2008 was the first time in ages that an actual North team (not named Mount) won the 'North', only to be beaten in the semis by 'you know who'.

SOMEDAY we will 'scale the Mount'!

[Goal Line Stand]

Good point on Monmouth and their location.  However, moving Monmouth verses moving UWW is night and IF Wheaton remains undefeated, I think moving UWW in would be a travesty.  If they falter, I still wouldn't like it, but couldn't really protest.  In 2007 we thought we'd gotten a good deal when MUC was replaced by UWW - then that turns out to be the Stagg the Warhawks win!  Thanks for nothin', selection committee!

Considering the Warhawks had played in two previous Staggs, not quite sure why anyone would think there was going to be much of a drop off there. Maybe good deal is too strong a word to use.  How about, you thought you were getting a slightly better deal?  8)

Good point!  But after having MUC win the North seemingly forever, ANY change seemed 'good'!

2008 was the first time in ages that an actual North team (not named Mount) won the 'North', only to be beaten in the semis by 'you know who'.

SOMEDAY we will 'scale the Mount'!

No time like the present!