Future of Division III

[y_jack_lok]

Colleges used to teach people how to think.  Now it's what to think, with very rare exceptions.  I can love my alma mater and be thankful for my education yet still be critical.  (Isn't that the "how to think" role of my education?)

It seems to me that this statement stands in opposition to your earlier statement "If I'm running a college these days, I'm adding courses geared toward real life application in fields where people are making money.  Risk Management and Insurance, Project Management, Logistics and Supply Chain, Banking and Private Equity."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that these are pathways where you are taught what to think vs how to think.

You haven't ruined my weekend, and I hope I haven't ruined yours. I'm also not trying to crap on you. Yes, the world (especially the U.S.) is changing -- in ways that make me sad. I'm glad I'm so old that getting left behind isn't a problem for me.

[MCScots2013]

Courses, not necessarily degrees. 

We already have courses (and degrees, actually) that teach what to think--Accounting, Mathematics, Physics, Biology--all rooted in universal norms and truths.  Isn't that why we have "Proofs" in math?

I am no fan of throwing out the core liberal arts curriculum, good sir.  Being well read and a jack-of-all-trades/master of none has served me well.

[jknezek]

Only 40% of degrees this year were earned by men and down 3% from last year (before you call me sexist, we men make up half the population and half of possible enrollees).

This is a statement with the wrong context. Men in the U.S. make up 54% of trade school enrollment. 82% of active military enlistment come from men. The U.S. population is 50.5% women. Men, fewer of us in general, are simply spread a bit more thinly. Meanwhile, more women have gone for higher education. In 1970, 20% of women 18-24 enrolled in college. Now it's 48%. In 1970 for men, it was 32-34%. Now? It's 34%.

In other words, men are pretty consistent. 1/3 of 18-24 years olds are enrolled in college over the last 55 years. Women, as opportunities to not be a homemaker or a secretary increased, have gone from 20% to 48%. The difference is found in other career paths. Men tend to go to votech schools at a higher rate and into the military at a much higher rate.

You keep pointing to this as if it's some kind of bad thing. It's not. It's just numbers and a change in opportunities for women.

[WUPHF]

College isn't necessarily trade school. It's supposed to be where you go to learn to think. Pigeon-holing a few majors as "worth it" is ridiculously narrow minded. Liberal Arts have led college education for decades. There is so much value in a well-rounded education. And that's coming from someone with a B.S. in Business Administration, a B.A. in Print Journalism and an MBA in Finance.

I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly back when a first generation college student from a one-income family could earn enough to pay for almost the entire year of housing and expenses by working full-time over the summers (me!), but it is getting harder and harder to agree with this sentiment. 

In some ways though, in the era of AI, the liberal arts background seems more compelling than ever.

[jknezek]

I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly back when a first generation college student from a one-income family could earn enough to pay for almost the entire year of housing and expenses by working full-time over the summers (me!), but it is getting harder and harder to agree with this sentiment. 

In some ways though, in the era of AI, the liberal arts background seems more compelling than ever.

Yes. The cost of college is 100% the problem. Get the cost under control, and it sorts itself out. I'm not expecting colleges to go back to the days of being able to afford it without saving, but it is out of control.

Unfortunately, a big part of the problem is expectations. My parents went to Wilkes in the 70s. Wilkes didn't have enough dorms for all the students, so my dad lived in the YMCA for 2 years, crammed in a room with 3 other guys. Just beds and a dresser. Nothing else. When I went to school in the 90s, it was 2 to a room, no AC, communal bathroom, communal laundry room, bed, dresser, closet, desk for each of us. Basic, hot, but servicable.

W&L's current upperclass housing? It's a freaking townhouse. Multiple bedrooms, full kitchen, laundry in every unit, full AC, multiple bathrooms.

My dad's meal plan? Whatever was served in a cafeteria twice a day. Mine? A cafeteria with multiple options at every meal, plus a snack option restaurant on campus. W&L now? Multiple restaurant and cafeteria style eateries serving multiple styles 20 hours a day.

Let's not touch on how athletic facilities have changed, or even how non-NCAA athlete gym opportunities have changed. Wilkes had a small sports weight room in the 70s, W&L had a dungeon weight room for whoever wanted to use it in the 90s, now there is a full lifestyle gym on campus in addition to the sports specific facilities.

Healthcare? Dad went to the hospital when he got hurt playing football. We had a nurse in the 90s. W&L now has a full healthcare facility, staffed 24/7 with a dr and multiple nurses.

And then there's the admin. So much growth in admin.

Colleges have a spending problem. They need to stop building palaces and start building functional facilities. Unfortunately, if they do so, I don't think the students will come, even if they pay 1/2 as much or even less.

It's a quandry.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

This used to be the difference between liberal arts and public institutions - one was more focused on personal development and the other on job training.  Liberal Arts got popular and many public schools shifted to compete.  Now the trend seems to be moving in the other direction and many liberal arts schools are shifting.

You're either going to be rich enough to compensate for changing trends or you have to shift to match the students you're trying to attract.

I think there will always be a market for both, but the size of that market is going to change dramatically from season to season.

[MCScots2013]

Only 40% of degrees this year were earned by men and down 3% from last year (before you call me sexist, we men make up half the population and half of possible enrollees).

This is a statement with the wrong context. Men in the U.S. make up 54% of trade school enrollment. 82% of active military enlistment come from men. The U.S. population is 50.5% women. Men, fewer of us in general, are simply spread a bit more thinly. Meanwhile, more women have gone for higher education. In 1970, 20% of women 18-24 enrolled in college. Now it's 48%. In 1970 for men, it was 32-34%. Now? It's 34%.

In other words, men are pretty consistent. 1/3 of 18-24 years olds are enrolled in college over the last 55 years. Women, as opportunities to not be a homemaker or a secretary increased, have gone from 20% to 48%. The difference is found in other career paths. Men tend to go to votech schools at a higher rate and into the military at a much higher rate.

You keep pointing to this as if it's some kind of bad thing. It's not. It's just numbers and a change in opportunities for women.

I'm not taking issue with opportunities for women and I'm not accusing you of thinking I am.  What I am saying it total enrollment is down and because total enrollment is down and one side of the equation isn't picking up the slack we need to be concerned. 

With your statistics, what is included with "higher education"?
-community college?
-online enrollment?
-votech/trade school you mentioned? (Honestly, I'm a shocked it's only 54%.  Thought that would be 3 out of 4 for trade school.)
-how many are non-traditional students/adult learners?

Colleges in 1970 could survive with 500 student enrollment.  Adjust cost of educations now and double enrollment isn't doing it since costs are well more than doubled.

4 year, traditional straight from high school enrollment is down and we should focus on that.  We can talk percentages all day, but consistent percent of an increasingly smaller number...is a smaller number.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

-votech/trade school you mentioned? (Honestly, I'm a shocked it's only 54%.  Thought that would be 3 out of 4 for trade school.)

You have to remember this includes female dominated fields, like cosmetology and massage, along with more traditionally male fields like plumbing and electrical (trades which are making very concerted efforts to recruit women, anyway).

[MCScots2013]

-votech/trade school you mentioned? (Honestly, I'm a shocked it's only 54%.  Thought that would be 3 out of 4 for trade school.)

You have to remember this includes female dominated fields, like cosmetology and massage, along with more traditionally male fields like plumbing and electrical (trades which are making very concerted efforts to recruit women, anyway).

Fair point.  I'll revise my shock to 2 out of 3.