Future of Division III

[IC798891]

OR you could do what CWRU does and have a School of Engineering, a School of Management, a School of Nursing, and a College of Arts and Sciences, that way, nearly all students can study something they like!

Because there are so many Division III schools enrolling 12,000 students (undergrad/grad), with a 267 acre campus, a 400 acre farm, and $2.5 billion in an endowment to make things like this possible.

Why haven't any of our colleges/universities just considered not being so small and poor?

[CNU85]

Thanks for the anecdotes.  I'm glad there are performers and I'm glad there are teachers.  We'd be a much better place if more folks did what they loved for a living, but sadly lot of graduates come out of school wide eyed and bushy tailed and find out what they just paid to study is not the ROI they expected.  CNU85, I would have to imagine your daughter having an Econ background to fall back on is better than have a Dance degree to fall back on if circumstances changed. You may feel differently, but as a girl dad myself I would prefer my daughter have your daughter's path.

The "what about the teachers!" line is overplayed. We all know teachers are fundamental to society.  Did I say Teaching Licensure was a scam?  No.  My wife was one of those underpaid teachers and my brother is college professor.  Grade school kids can't do basic math and are accepted into colleges and high school teachers are assaulted in the classroom and most parents couldn't care less. I don't live in a bubble. But, for a board called "Future of Division III" is sure does seem like some of us here do.

Colleges used to teach people how to think.  Now it's what to think, with very rare exceptions.  I can love my alma mater and be thankful for my education yet still be critical.  (Isn't that the "how to think" role of my education?)

You guys can crap on me all you'd like, and if I plucked a nerve I hope your Memorial Day Weekend is not ruined.  The facts are the facts. Only 40% of degrees this year were earned by men and down 3% from last year (before you call me sexist, we men make up half the population and half of possible enrollees).  Keep telling yourselves everything is just fine as we have numerous colleges and universities shutting down over enrollment and finances with many more on accreditation probation due to those poor finances. Larger universities are going to gain more market share.

We live in 2026, not 1996.  "The times, they are a-changin'."  Get busy finding ways to adapt or get left behind.  Simple as that.

Nice pivot. Dance Theory is not a scam. That's what I was addressing. Show me facts that say it is a scam. You can't. Because the data doesn't exist. But a nice try in your pivot.

[CNU85]

^^^ I wish I could point to that kind of success in my family. I can't just yet. But my son, who has a BA in Political Science, turned to writing about a decade ago and has just completed an MFA program in Creative Writing. Simultaneously he has a novel that was released on May 5th. It's not likely to be a best seller, but it could earn him royalties beyond the advance he was paid by his publisher. This has led to him being about to start a job ghostwriting a book for a computer science professor who spent over four years leading a federal government organization.

There are so many pathways in life.

Sounds like it's already happening! Where can I find his novel? PM if you want.

I'm writing a book....my first. And I'm struggling. I'll figure it out. I hope.

[MCScots2013]

Thanks for the anecdotes.  I'm glad there are performers and I'm glad there are teachers.  We'd be a much better place if more folks did what they loved for a living, but sadly lot of graduates come out of school wide eyed and bushy tailed and find out what they just paid to study is not the ROI they expected.  CNU85, I would have to imagine your daughter having an Econ background to fall back on is better than have a Dance degree to fall back on if circumstances changed. You may feel differently, but as a girl dad myself I would prefer my daughter have your daughter's path.

The "what about the teachers!" line is overplayed. We all know teachers are fundamental to society.  Did I say Teaching Licensure was a scam?  No.  My wife was one of those underpaid teachers and my brother is college professor.  Grade school kids can't do basic math and are accepted into colleges and high school teachers are assaulted in the classroom and most parents couldn't care less. I don't live in a bubble. But, for a board called "Future of Division III" is sure does seem like some of us here do.

Colleges used to teach people how to think.  Now it's what to think, with very rare exceptions.  I can love my alma mater and be thankful for my education yet still be critical.  (Isn't that the "how to think" role of my education?)

You guys can crap on me all you'd like, and if I plucked a nerve I hope your Memorial Day Weekend is not ruined.  The facts are the facts. Only 40% of degrees this year were earned by men and down 3% from last year (before you call me sexist, we men make up half the population and half of possible enrollees).  Keep telling yourselves everything is just fine as we have numerous colleges and universities shutting down over enrollment and finances with many more on accreditation probation due to those poor finances. Larger universities are going to gain more market share.

We live in 2026, not 1996.  "The times, they are a-changin'."  Get busy finding ways to adapt or get left behind.  Simple as that.

Nice pivot. Dance Theory is not a scam. That's what I was addressing. Show me facts that say it is a scam. You can't. Because the data doesn't exist. But a nice try in your pivot.

Pivot? Take your ball and go home. I have obviously hit a nerve and you are taking things too personal. Congrats to having a talented daughter. Maybe she should have gone to Juilliard.

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/careers/the-highest-paying-college-majors
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/24/best-and-worst-paying-college-majors-5-years-after-graduation.html?msockid=2f515e48a7a865cf190e4a40a6846447

[CNU85]

Thanks for the anecdotes.  I'm glad there are performers and I'm glad there are teachers.  We'd be a much better place if more folks did what they loved for a living, but sadly lot of graduates come out of school wide eyed and bushy tailed and find out what they just paid to study is not the ROI they expected.  CNU85, I would have to imagine your daughter having an Econ background to fall back on is better than have a Dance degree to fall back on if circumstances changed. You may feel differently, but as a girl dad myself I would prefer my daughter have your daughter's path.

The "what about the teachers!" line is overplayed. We all know teachers are fundamental to society.  Did I say Teaching Licensure was a scam?  No.  My wife was one of those underpaid teachers and my brother is college professor.  Grade school kids can't do basic math and are accepted into colleges and high school teachers are assaulted in the classroom and most parents couldn't care less. I don't live in a bubble. But, for a board called "Future of Division III" is sure does seem like some of us here do.

Colleges used to teach people how to think.  Now it's what to think, with very rare exceptions.  I can love my alma mater and be thankful for my education yet still be critical.  (Isn't that the "how to think" role of my education?)

You guys can crap on me all you'd like, and if I plucked a nerve I hope your Memorial Day Weekend is not ruined.  The facts are the facts. Only 40% of degrees this year were earned by men and down 3% from last year (before you call me sexist, we men make up half the population and half of possible enrollees).  Keep telling yourselves everything is just fine as we have numerous colleges and universities shutting down over enrollment and finances with many more on accreditation probation due to those poor finances. Larger universities are going to gain more market share.

We live in 2026, not 1996.  "The times, they are a-changin'."  Get busy finding ways to adapt or get left behind.  Simple as that.

Nice pivot. Dance Theory is not a scam. That's what I was addressing. Show me facts that say it is a scam. You can't. Because the data doesn't exist. But a nice try in your pivot.

Pivot? Take your ball and go home. I have obviously hit a nerve and you are taking things too personal. Congrats to having a talented daughter. Maybe she should have gone to Juilliard.

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/careers/the-highest-paying-college-majors
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/24/best-and-worst-paying-college-majors-5-years-after-graduation.html?msockid=2f515e48a7a865cf190e4a40a6846447

HAHA....Nope, no nerve..you're not that important in my life.... I'm just pointing out that you said "Dance Theory is a scam". Perhaps better wording would have been, "I am intellectually incapable of understanding Dance Theory".

[MCScots2013]

I'm assuming CNU was still a junior college when you were on the debate team...

So when are you asking CNU to add the Dance major? Us mouth-breathing, slack jawed rednecks need culture!

[Ron Boerger]

Forbes published their annual financial ranking of colleges last week, and though you have to be a subscriber to read the article describing the methodology used, the ranking itself is open (that said, I had to use DuckDuckGo) and shows a disturbing number of colleges, including D3 schools, with the lowest or "D" ranking.  A numerical grade is also assigned (if someone subscribes to Forbes, perhaps they can read the accompanying article to tell us more).  Here are the "D" D3's I caught, from least- to worst-bad.  If you want to look up your school or school in your state there are plenty of filters on the list itself. 

University of Hartford - 1.65
Waynesburg  - 1.63
Huntingdon - 1.6
Oglethorpe - 1.6
Southern Virginia - 1.58
Albion - 1.57
Wittenberg - 1.5
Husson - 1.49
Marietta - 1.47
Loras - 1.44
Adrian  - 1.34
Hiram - 1.3
Concordia TX - 1.24
Bethany WV - 1.24
Hartwick - 1.18
Alvernia - 1.17
Coe - 1.16
NC Wesleyan - 1.1
East Texas Baptist - 1.1
Chatham - 1.03
Belhaven - 0.91
Hilbert - 0.91
Greensboro - 0.79
Albright - 0.73
Olivet - 0.72
Anna Maria - 0.65
Utica - 0.46
Averett - 0.34
Keystone - 0.28

[Ron Boerger]

The article describing the methodology seems to be open (and this time, with any browser).  Here are the highlights; see the article for definitions and deets.

• Endowment Assets Per FTE (15%)
• Three Year Average UNAEP to Expenses (15%) [UNAEP=Unrestricted Net Assets Exclusive of Plant]
• Primary Reserve Ratio (10%)
• Viability Ratio (10%)
• Core Operating Margin (10%)
• 2-Year Enrollment Growth (10%)
• Tuition As A Percentage of Core Revenues (7.5%)
• Return On Assets (7.5%)
• Net Tuition Revenue Per Student (7.5%)
• Instruction Expenses Per FTE (7.5%)

[CNU85]

I'm assuming CNU was still a junior college when you were on the debate team...

So when are you asking CNU to add the Dance major? Us mouth-breathing, slack jawed rednecks need culture!

Nah ..not that old...so another incorrect assumption. I have had that discussion of adding a major, if it is deemed appropriate. And I have on my desk right now, at work, the paperwork to establish an endowed scholarship in my daughter's name for a dance minor. I just need to review it,  and my wife and I need to sign. We currently have an annual scholarship in her name, but it's time to endow.

Ha...and I always joke that I'm a redneck with a masters degree. So perhaps someday, I'll buy you a beer in a redneck bar. I'd feel right at home.

[Gregory Sager]

I saw this Forbes list on Instagram yesterday. Ruined my day, but I pored over it, anyway. I didn't see too many schools mentioned that surprised me, but there were a few:

* Coe: A well-regarded academic institution of ancient vintage that's located in a state that's always bragged about its residents having the highest percentage of college grads in the nation.

* Loras: See above. Maybe not the same institutional cachet as Coe, but a steady stream of suburban Chicagoland kids have bolstered Loras's student body in recent decades, as Loras has appeared to do a really nice job of maximizing its relative proximity to the heartland's biggest population center.

* East Texas Baptist: People have been moving in massive numbers to Texas over the past couple of decades like there's been a land rush on. If there are any schools that one would think would be impervious to demographic decline, it'd be schools located in the Lone Star State. But ETBU doesn't seem to have built up much of an endowment over the years,  despite the fact that it's been around for a long time (founded 1912). A mile and a half south of of the ETBU campus on the city of Marshall's west side is NAIA member Wiley University. Wiley is on the Forbes list, too, which I can understand because it's a tiny and perpetually impoverished HBCU. But I didn't expect to see ETBU on it alongside its neighbor.

The other Texas school on the list, Concordia (TX), kind of makes sense in terms of being institutionally vulnerable, because it, too, has a modest endowment, plus it also has compounded the ongoing collective struggle of all of the member schools of the Concordia University System of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod by openly trying to secede from it, giving rise to the sort of institutional legal headaches that put an additional burden on a school's health.

Adrian: This school pioneered the "expand the sports menu" approach to solidifying admissions numbers among D3 private schools. Look at the absolutely mind-boggling number of sports offered by Adrian, and you realize just how all-in Adrian has been for that particular admissions model. But I guess that there still aren't enough Bulldogs to pay all of the bills.

Alvernia: I'm not surprised to see Alvernia on this list. I'm surprised that Alvernia is still open. I figured that, at the very least, it would be just above Keystone on the impending-extinction end of the Forbes fiscal-illness ratings.

Fingers crossed for every single school on this list. I hate, hate, hate to see a school close its doors for good.

[WUPHF]

Interesting article preview. Of course, Tulsa has taken more flak than most for their build or die approach...  There is a paragraph relevant to prior conversations about the cost of higher education.

"We were like double the number of staff in all these other areas that have nothing to do with teaching," says Hendricks, "We had a whole in-house marketing team, that was 20 people. We had 30 full-time police officers, a massive grounds crew and a library that had a huge staff, maybe 20 people. We did our food service internally, which is generally a terrible idea."

The professor probably has a long list of other expenditures that he deems unnecessary because they have nothing to do with teaching.

Maybe he thinks students will drawn by his world class econometrics lectures?

And how quickly would he scoff at the idea that he abandon his research and a 3/2 course load in favor of a 4/4 load, or God forbid, a 5/5 load.

[Kuiper]

Just to give a snapshot of just how many DIII schools are "D" rated on the Forbes list, here are some others not on Ron's list, focused just on the lower end of the numerical scale

Pfeiffer 1.27
Aurora 1.24
North Central (MN) 1.13
Regis 1.0
Augsburg 0.97
Methodist 0.89
Neumann 0.89
Drew 0.87 (could give context why Drew's AD and longtime employee and alum just left for Haverford (A+))
Delaware Valley 0.86
Carlow 0.81
Lakeland 0.79
La Roche 0.79
St. Joseph's Maine 0.76
Mary Baldwin 0.67
Valley Forge 0.55

[WUPHF]

I saw this Forbes list on Instagram yesterday. Ruined my day, but I pored over it, anyway. I didn't see too many schools mentioned that surprised me, but there were a few:

The most surprising for me is Oglethorpe. As I understand, they have had problems before, but the campus is so incredibly stunning and well maintained, it is hard to imagine...

[Ron Boerger]

Thanks, Kuiper, for catching many schools I missed. 

I wonder if the (paywalled) article shows the detailed components of each rankings.  ETBU, for example, has nearly as much money held "in trust" for the school as it does in its endowment, and I wonder if that was included in their calculation. 

And "two-year enrollment growth" is not really a significant factor if you admit as many students as you want/can support.  A school that went from 3000 to 1500 thanks to the pandemic and/or other reasons likely needs to grow, but one that held constant at 2200 for the same period may not. 

Oglethorpe - 2025 audit shows endowments of somewhere around $55M, an increase of around $4.1M from the previous year, so other factors may be responsible for that number.  Their annual expenses for 2025 were around $41M, they took in nearly $38M, and their tuition discount rate was nearly 66%. 

Detailed breakdowns would be educational.

[WUPHF]

* East Texas Baptist: People have been moving in massive numbers to Texas over the past couple of decades like there's been a land rush on. If there are any schools that one would think would be impervious to demographic decline, it'd be schools located in the Lone Star State. But ETBU doesn't seem to have built up much of an endowment over the years,  despite the fact that it's been around for a long time (founded 1912). A mile and a half south of of the ETBU campus on the city of Marshall's west side is NAIA member Wiley University. Wiley is on the Forbes list, too, which I can understand because it's a tiny and perpetually impoverished HBCU. But I didn't expect to see ETBU on it alongside its neighbor.

Name changes are never easy... always expensive and guaranteed to upset the alumni... but they might be better off in following the trend of shifting the name to East Texas Christian.