Future of Division III

[WUPHF]

I find it very interesting how this list ranges from schools who have been incredibly successful across sports (Wartburg/Central) to other institutions who have had lack of success across sports (Eureka/Crown). Obviously this tells us where institutional priorities are and how they are choosing to attempt to stay open. Thanks for the info!

In some cases, it is just a function of the overall enrollment.  Wartburg has 1,000 more students than Eureka and Blackburn.

[Gregory Sager]

The future of Division III includes Ferrum, Emory and Henry and Maryville (MO) moving back to Division III.  Just kidding.  Mostly.

McMurry tried that. Went to D-2, saw how expensive the T-shirt was, did not buy it, and went home.

... whereas Benedictine only went to the D2 store, got hungry immediately after walking in the door, and left to go buy a 6" chicken parm meal at Subway four doors down in the shopping plaza before ever reaching the clothing section.

[Patrick Coleman]

Maryville is and always has been DIII....

I am surprised to see Centre and Sewanee on the losing money lists....

There is more than one institution named after St. Mary's Villa.

Maryville (MO) was a founding member of the SLIAC, but moved to the GLVC in Division II a decade or so ago.

Since 2009!

[DagarmanSpartan]

Well, I'm glad CWRU, my main D3 alma mater, wasn't on any of the big loss lists.

OTOH........I don't like seeing Yeshiva, my other D3 alma mater, on one of the deficit lists.

Here's the thing I don't understand though.  D3 sports at CWRU were definitely not well attended back in my time, and I don't see many indications that much has changed in that regard over the last three decades.

Given that, I truly have a hard time wondering how it is that athletics there don't run a bigger operating deficit.  Surely they aren't bringing in major revenues.

It's not like I-FBS P4 where your media rights deal alone might be worth $40-$90 million annually per school, not even counting ticket revenues, merchandising, and donations from wealthy alumni boosters.

[WUPHF]

Well, I'm glad CWRU, my main D3 alma mater, wasn't on any of the big loss lists.

Case Western Reserve had losses, layoffs, a hiring freeze, etc.

No institution from a medical school was immune to the changes at the Federal level last year.

But, they fund athletics through tuition and fees (and fundraising) and can bring in more than the vast majority of Division III.

[jknezek]

Well, I'm glad CWRU, my main D3 alma mater, wasn't on any of the big loss lists.

OTOH........I don't like seeing Yeshiva, my other D3 alma mater, on one of the deficit lists.

Here's the thing I don't understand though.  D3 sports at CWRU were definitely not well attended back in my time, and I don't see many indications that much has changed in that regard over the last three decades.

Given that, I truly have a hard time wondering how it is that athletics there don't run a bigger operating deficit.  Surely they aren't bringing in major revenues.

It's not like I-FBS P4 where your media rights deal alone might be worth $40-$90 million annually per school, not even counting ticket revenues, merchandising, and donations from wealthy alumni boosters.

You don't understand how a massive research institution with a huge enrollment and a relatively small number of student athletes (per enrollment) doesn't spend 7%+ of total university expenses on the athletic program? This isn't hard math.

There are 12,500 CWRU students grad and undergrad. There are maybe 500 student athletes. I have no idea what CWRU's total budget its, but it dwarfs small schools. Not only that, but at a small private school, student athletes might be 40% or more of a school population. So the expenses, relative to student body size and total expenses, are going to be much larger than at an institution like CWRU where the athletic budget is likely a small pimple on the body of the whole university budget.

Sometimes I wonder if you are just trolling this board when you bring up CWRU stuff....

[WUPHF]

Sometimes I wonder if you are just trolling this board when you bring up CWRU stuff....

I do know our resident Spartans fan personally, but he has been around for awhile.  I do not think it is trolling.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Uhhhhhh.........with all due respect.

Chicago and Washington U. - St. Louis both have endowments several times the size of CWRU's, significantly larger enrollments, and in all likelihood, budgets that exceed if not dwarf CWRU's.

Guess what?

Both of those schools appeared on the big loss/deficit list, and CWRU.......DIDN'T.

So obviously, your explanation is insufficient, and perhaps a bit simplistic.

When I posted what I did just now, it was NOT to be a "troll" in any sense.

Rather, it was to express my DISBELIEF that CWRU wouldn't also be on that list, given how low the level of support for athletics is, and how they don't appear to have a lot of traditional athletic revenue streams.

A disbelief which becomes even deeper when one points out, as I just did, that even bigger RICHER schools are seemingly facing such deficits.

Anyone here got an explanation?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Uhhhhhh.........with all due respect.

Chicago and Washington U. - St. Louis both have endowments several times the size of CWRU's, significantly larger enrollments, and in all likelihood, budgets that exceed if not dwarf CWRU's.

Guess what?

Both of those schools appeared on the big loss/deficit list, and CWRU.......DIDN'T.

So obviously, your explanation is insufficient, and perhaps a bit simplistic.

When I posted what I did just now, it was NOT to be a "troll" in any sense.

Rather, it was to express my DISBELIEF that CWRU wouldn't also be on that list, given how low the level of support for athletics is, and how they don't appear to have a lot of traditional athletic revenue streams.

A disbelief which becomes even deeper when one points out, as I just did, that even bigger RICHER schools are seemingly facing such deficits.

Anyone here got an explanation?

That list was overall institutional losses.  Your comment was about athletic department deficits.  Every single d3 school runs an athletic deficit.  None of them come close to covering their own costs.  I think, perhaps you misunderstood what the lists were detailing.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Ah, I see.

It appears that I did misunderstand.

That said, what I said remains valid.

How do schools with endowments, enrollments, and budgets that much larger............still manage to spend themselves into the ground, when smaller and comparatively poorer schools like CWRU......don't?

I'll hang up and listen to anyone with a good explanation.

[WUPHF]

A disbelief which becomes even deeper when one points out, as I just did, that even bigger RICHER schools are seemingly facing such deficits.

Anyone here got an explanation?

I said this before and I'll say it again.  This is related to the Medical Schools primarily and government funding.