FB: Presidents' Athletic Conference

[Patrick Coleman]

I look forward to seeing how good those teams really are!

[DagarmanSpartan]

That'll be one of the big stories to follow this season.

From looking at the NESCAC board, it appears that their recruiting classes are generally not super huge.  CWRU seems to have brought in a larger class those most of those schools.

Granted, that's not necessarily a reflection on the quality/caliber/talent level of the players, but I am thinking that it might affect the ability to practice effectively, and possibly affect depth.

We'll see. 

Amherst v. Williams has always been one of the most attended games in D3, right?

[Patrick Coleman]

Amherst-Williams attendance has waned a bit recently but is still a big rivalry. NESCAC schools are limited to 84 football players, so that will keep the recruiting classes a little smaller.

I do wonder about what that will mean long-term at programs who want to play in Week 12, 13, 14. I also wonder about a student-athlete who has played 36 games vs. someone who has played 45 or more when you play veteran playoff teams.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Gee.  Only 84?  Really?

I didn't know that.

Why such a restrictive rule?

CWRU usually has well over 100 on the roster, not that that necessarily produces great results.

[unionpalooza]

Agreed that certainly some of the D-III and D-II schools moving up play a role here, but it's also important to note that the nature of the NCAA Division III playoffs changed. From the beginning of the tournament until 1999, the East Region was granted an automatic berth in the national semifinals. There was no mixing of regions and the East had two or four playoff teams in the field, same as everyone else. An East Region team was planted on the doorstep of the Stagg Bowl for the first 27 years of the event. Yes, those Rowan teams or those Ithaca teams would have won their way into that position almost assuredly regardless of the structure of the bracket ... except if they were to play Mount Union before the Stagg Bowl, which toward the end of the old structure and the beginning of the new structure became the original Purple Power.

It isn't the entirety of the difference, for sure, but it's not nothing, either.

I'm not sure about that.  Since 2000, R1/2 teams have sat on the doorstep 17 times, playing for a Stagg Bowl birth in the semis.  They won one of those games. Prior to 2000, there are only 3 Stagg Bowls in which an R1/2 team didn't compete.  They didn't stop making the semis, they just stopped making the Stagg Bowl.  I think it's more likely that the format change just coincided with the end of the last East perennial contender (Rowan in the 90s).

FWIW, I think we may actually see another shift in the next few years with all the changes in FBS/FCS/D2.  Five-in-five is likely to reduce the number of scholarships available each year (especially for the programs that don't opt in to House) and the number of roster spots available each year (especially for those that do opt in).  Across the Northeast, that's probably something like 200-300 HS graduates each year who will no longer have an FCS option, and may end up in D3. I would expect that will move some needles.  (Of course, if D3 goes five-in-five, who knows; D3 is more likely than not to split in two in that event, anyhow.)

[ADL70]

How did this board get hijacked from PAC disccussion?

[Patrick Coleman]

Looking at just the five seasons after Covid, does seem to support your case.

W&J was 38-7 and GCC 37-8. Westminster was 33-12 and CWRU 27-8

But for me what is significant is the futility of the rest of the conference.

The consistent underperformance of the lower-tier teams in this conference is notable. This league has historically been top-heavy, a trend evident since the 1990s when W&J dominated until GCC, led by RJ Bowers, emerged as a strong competitor. In the 2000s, W&J and Thomas More were the primary contenders. Currently, the PAC appears to be experiencing its most competitive period in recent memory.

Several factors contribute to this dynamic. The Western Pennsylvania region boasts a high concentration of football programs, including seven Division II institutions (excluding Mercyhurst, which is not positioned for FCS transition) and eight Division III teams. This does not account for the numerous FCS, Division II, and Division III programs in West Virginia, Northeastern Ohio, and Central Pennsylvania that draw from the same talent pool.

While the strength of the WIAC is frequently discussed, the strategic advantage they possess due to the presence of only one FBS institution and seventeen Division III institutions within the state is often overlooked. All state-affiliated institutions in Wisconsin are Division III. One can only speculate about the potential caliber of Pennsylvania's Division III programs if the state had a single FBS institution instead of three, no FCS institutions instead of eight, no Division II institutions instead of sixteen, and only seven Division III institutions instead of twenty-eight.

It started here.

[ADL70]

Well folks.

Now that the NESCAC champ will be competing in the playoffs, maybe that will increase the chances of a NE Stagg Bowl team.

Any thoughts on that?

I mean, consider this.  The Ivy League didn't compete in the I-FCS playoffs until just last year or so, and they definitely proved that they can contend in the playoffs.

Maybe it'll be the same for the NESCAC in D3.  We'll see!

2025 was first year for Ivies in playoff. Yale beat Youngstown St 43-42 first round lost to eventual champion Montana St 21-13 in second round.

[IC798891]

The ironic thing about Ithaca's 1988 team in particular was that they needed 4th quarter comebacks to beat New York's based Wagner and Cortland, in Rounds 1 and 2 -- frankly, only boneheaded coaching by Wagner allowed Ithaca to get out of there with a win -- but then had zero trouble with southern and midwest based Ferrum and Central, winning by 24 and 15 points respectively, (in games that were not as close as the scores would indicate)