FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Mugsy]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I was wondering how much Wheaton would even try to run the ball. If Wheaton falls behind, then it will become a passing fest and we'll see how Wheaton controls Hayes and Garza.

True. 

Same can be said in the other direction.  We'll see how SoDup protects against East & Ramsey, who actually have more sacks in conference than Hayes and Garza.  Rattling Dicken could be important, but not as important as stopping the vaunted SoDup rushing game.

[Mugsy]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I'm concerned about many things for Wheaton.  The biggest one that I have seen is penalties of the personal foul nature.  I understand that sometimes personal fouls are unavoidable, but it just seems to always come at an important juncture of the game, either stalling out drives or keeping opponents drives alive. 

IMO opinion, Wheaton has to get the quick pass outside going.  The quick passes outside often can supplement a running game.

I hear you on the penalties.  However... SoDup is right there with Wheaton on penalty yards a game.

[NCF]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I was wondering how much Wheaton would even try to run the ball. If Wheaton falls behind, then it will become a passing fest and we'll see how Wheaton controls Hayes and Garza.

True. 

Same can be said in the other direction.  We'll see how SoDup protects against East & Ramsey, who actually have more sacks in conference than Hayes and Garza.  Rattling Dicken could be important, but not as important as stopping the vaunted SoDup rushing game.

Garza and Hayes are not the only two NC defensive players with sacks. Also, both of these players are shuffled in and out to keep them fresh. How often are East and Ramsey on the sidelines? Will the NC defense give up more than 10 points, will the NC offense score more than 17(IWU). IMHO the  winner of this game will be decided in the trenches.

[Mugsy]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I was wondering how much Wheaton would even try to run the ball. If Wheaton falls behind, then it will become a passing fest and we'll see how Wheaton controls Hayes and Garza.

True. 

Same can be said in the other direction.  We'll see how SoDup protects against East & Ramsey, who actually have more sacks in conference than Hayes and Garza.  Rattling Dicken could be important, but not as important as stopping the vaunted SoDup rushing game.

Garza and Hayes are not the only two NC defensive players with sacks. Also, both of these players are shuffled in and out to keep them fresh. How often are East and Ramsey on the sidelines? Will the NC defense give up more than 10 points, will the NC offense score more than 17(IWU). IMHO the  winner of this game will be decided in the trenches.

Umm... where did I say Garza and Hayes are the only players with sacks. You mentioned two primary defensive linemen, so did I.  East and Ramsey are not the only two Wheaton players with sacks.    In conference games Wheaton has 15 sacks, SoDup has 9.  I was merely pointing out that Wheaton can apply some pressure as well.  Try to have some objectivity.

I think it is much more important for SoDup to get pressure on Meador, because Wheaton's offense is 75% via the pass in conference play.  I think it is more important for Wheaton to stop the redbirds running game, than to get sacks on Dicken.

I'll give you that Coach Thorne has depth that few D3 teams do, especially at the RB and DL positions, but is SoDup the only team to substitute?

I agree, not unlike any other huge conference game, line play will be key but not the only key.

[NCF]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I was wondering how much Wheaton would even try to run the ball. If Wheaton falls behind, then it will become a passing fest and we'll see how Wheaton controls Hayes and Garza.

True. 

Same can be said in the other direction.  We'll see how SoDup protects against East & Ramsey, who actually have more sacks in conference than Hayes and Garza.  Rattling Dicken could be important, but not as important as stopping the vaunted SoDup rushing game.

Garza and Hayes are not the only two NC defensive players with sacks. Also, both of these players are shuffled in and out to keep them fresh. How often are East and Ramsey on the sidelines? Will the NC defense give up more than 10 points, will the NC offense score more than 17(IWU). IMHO the  winner of this game will be decided in the trenches.

Umm... where did I say Garza and Hayes are the only players with sacks. You mentioned two primary defensive linemen, so did I.  East and Ramsey are not the only two Wheaton players with sacks.    In conference games Wheaton has 15 sacks, SoDup has 9.  I was merely pointing out that Wheaton can apply some pressure as well.  Try to have some objectivity.

I think it is much more important for SoDup to get pressure on Meador, because Wheaton's offense is 75% via the pass in conference play.  I think it is more important for Wheaton to stop the redbirds running game, than to get sacks on Dicken.

I'll give you that Coach Thorne has depth that few D3 teams do, especially at the RB and DL positions, but is SoDup the only team to substitute?

I agree, not unlike any other huge conference game, line play will be key but not the only key.

My bad, I was reading the post by IL Gator, sorry.

That's what I was asking, how much does Wheaton sub? It might make a difference in the 2nd half.

I agree with you that your defense needing to stop the run. NC lives by the run and passes just enough to keep the defense guessing.

How many points will the NC defense give up? The first team defense hasn't given up more than 10 points since Redlands. Will Wheaton find a way to break through and put up more than two scores? We will have to wait and see. This could be a low scoring game.

[Mugsy]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I was wondering how much Wheaton would even try to run the ball. If Wheaton falls behind, then it will become a passing fest and we'll see how Wheaton controls Hayes and Garza.

True. 

Same can be said in the other direction.  We'll see how SoDup protects against East & Ramsey, who actually have more sacks in conference than Hayes and Garza.  Rattling Dicken could be important, but not as important as stopping the vaunted SoDup rushing game.

Garza and Hayes are not the only two NC defensive players with sacks. Also, both of these players are shuffled in and out to keep them fresh. How often are East and Ramsey on the sidelines? Will the NC defense give up more than 10 points, will the NC offense score more than 17(IWU). IMHO the  winner of this game will be decided in the trenches.

Umm... where did I say Garza and Hayes are the only players with sacks. You mentioned two primary defensive linemen, so did I.  East and Ramsey are not the only two Wheaton players with sacks.    In conference games Wheaton has 15 sacks, SoDup has 9.  I was merely pointing out that Wheaton can apply some pressure as well.  Try to have some objectivity.

I think it is much more important for SoDup to get pressure on Meador, because Wheaton's offense is 75% via the pass in conference play.  I think it is more important for Wheaton to stop the redbirds running game, than to get sacks on Dicken.

I'll give you that Coach Thorne has depth that few D3 teams do, especially at the RB and DL positions, but is SoDup the only team to substitute?

I agree, not unlike any other huge conference game, line play will be key but not the only key.

My bad, I was reading the post by IL Gator, sorry.

That's what I was asking, how much does Wheaton sub? It might make a difference in the 2nd half.

I agree with you that your defense needing to stop the run. NC lives by the run and passes just enough to keep the defense guessing.

How many points will the NC defense give up? The first team defense hasn't given up more than 10 points since Redlands. Will Wheaton find a way to break through and put up more than two scores? We will have to wait and see. This could be a low scoring game.

Wheaton does substitute some, but they don't have the depth to swap in entire lines like SoDup does.  This does make it very possibile that Wheaton will not be as fresh in the 4th and could get worn down in the end.

Wheaton's defense has played very, very well of late.  At this point I'm more confident they will stack up better against the redbird offense.

My gut feel at this point (but I'll need to dig a bit more) is that Wheaton will need to score at least 20 to win, and as you say I'm not sure how they'll be able too.  Coach Davis has come up with some very good game plan's this year that clearly have identified the opponent defenses weakness.  Just not sure if the redbirds have any...

[NCF]

Coming into this game against the south DuPage CCIW team, I'm concerned about Wheaton's inability to mount a reasonable rushing attack to attempt to keep Southern DuPage's defense "honest".  The SoDup defense is really fast and tough against both the run and pass.

I was wondering how much Wheaton would even try to run the ball. If Wheaton falls behind, then it will become a passing fest and we'll see how Wheaton controls Hayes and Garza.

True. 

Same can be said in the other direction.  We'll see how SoDup protects against East & Ramsey, who actually have more sacks in conference than Hayes and Garza.  Rattling Dicken could be important, but not as important as stopping the vaunted SoDup rushing game.

Garza and Hayes are not the only two NC defensive players with sacks. Also, both of these players are shuffled in and out to keep them fresh. How often are East and Ramsey on the sidelines? Will the NC defense give up more than 10 points, will the NC offense score more than 17(IWU). IMHO the  winner of this game will be decided in the trenches.

Umm... where did I say Garza and Hayes are the only players with sacks. You mentioned two primary defensive linemen, so did I.  East and Ramsey are not the only two Wheaton players with sacks.    In conference games Wheaton has 15 sacks, SoDup has 9.  I was merely pointing out that Wheaton can apply some pressure as well.  Try to have some objectivity.

I think it is much more important for SoDup to get pressure on Meador, because Wheaton's offense is 75% via the pass in conference play.  I think it is more important for Wheaton to stop the redbirds running game, than to get sacks on Dicken.

I'll give you that Coach Thorne has depth that few D3 teams do, especially at the RB and DL positions, but is SoDup the only team to substitute?

I agree, not unlike any other huge conference game, line play will be key but not the only key.

My bad, I was reading the post by IL Gator, sorry.

That's what I was asking, how much does Wheaton sub? It might make a difference in the 2nd half.

I agree with you that your defense needing to stop the run. NC lives by the run and passes just enough to keep the defense guessing.

How many points will the NC defense give up? The first team defense hasn't given up more than 10 points since Redlands. Will Wheaton find a way to break through and put up more than two scores? We will have to wait and see. This could be a low scoring game.

Wheaton does substitute some, but they don't have the depth to swap in entire lines like SoDup does.  This does make it very possibile that Wheaton will not be as fresh in the 4th and could get worn down in the end.

Wheaton's defense has played very, very well of late.  At this point I'm more confident they will stack up better against the redbird offense.

My gut feel at this point (but I'll need to dig a bit more) is that Wheaton will need to score at least 20 to win, and as you say I'm not sure how they'll be able too.  Coach Davis has come up with some very good game plan's this year that clearly have identified the opponent defenses weakness.  Just not sure if the redbirds have any...

And so has NC's defense. Hopefully, this game lives up to the expectations-Saturday can't get here fast enough.

[cardinaldad]

Il Gator - I know what you mean about a tough crowd. Hence my comment about feeling this way after a 51-10 victory. I felt kind of funny after typing my thoughts......but there is an uneasy feeling about the wat we played. We can't start that way against the great teams. This isn't the first time we came out of the gates playing not very well. One game, we might get caught with out pants down if we continue these slow starts.

UWW has been tied or trailing in three of their conference games at halftime. What UWW and NCC are seeing is that teams are changing their defensive schemes to commit to stopping the running game. NCC has seen that especially with Augie and Elmhurst. A better takeaway in my view is that NCC made the offensive adjustments to find a way to score 5 TDs. Elmhurst did help a bit with a few bad decisions and turnovers.

If NCC came out flat and won by 41 points, that's a positive. In a lot of years, NCC came out flat and lost games that should have been easy wins. Don't expect complete dominance in every game, there is still tough competition every week in the CCIW.

I went back to 2003 and checked the stats. Dicken's completion rate is actually one percentage better than Kam Kniss in his freshman season. Kam was never asked to throw 33 passes in one game though. Albeit, the 2003 wasn't as good as this sason's team. Kam turned out to be a pretty decent QB. The expectations on Dicken by many fans is just too great.

     No doubt that Dicken can throw a beautiful ball. My only point is that he was a bit off Saturday night. If he and the entire offense has a game like that against a better opponent, the results may not be the same.

[ncc58]

I agree with you that your defense needing to stop the run. NC lives by the run and passes just enough to keep the defense guessing.

How many points will the NC defense give up? The first team defense hasn't given up more than 10 points since Redlands. Will Wheaton find a way to break through and put up more than two scores? We will have to wait and see. This could be a low scoring game.

Well, I''d consider 33 passes more than "just enough." If you load up to stop the run, Jeff Thorne isn't afraid to throw the ball. Bai Kabba has become a serious weapon, too.

Yes, I think Wheaton will put up at least two scores. They'll abandon the run and just start heaving the ball all over the field. They have a potential OPOY at QB and a good set of receivers. But it won't be enough. NCC may even break the record for interceptions returned for TDs.

I laugh everytime Mugsy uses the term "SoDup." Mugsy, does that Masters diploma hanging on your wall say "SoDup?" 

[NCF]

I agree with you that your defense needing to stop the run. NC lives by the run and passes just enough to keep the defense guessing.

How many points will the NC defense give up? The first team defense hasn't given up more than 10 points since Redlands. Will Wheaton find a way to break through and put up more than two scores? We will have to wait and see. This could be a low scoring game.

Well, I''d consider 33 passes more than "just enough." If you load up to stop the run, Jeff Thorne isn't afraid to throw the ball. Bai Kabba has become a serious weapon, too.

Yes, I think Wheaton will put up at least two scores. They'll abandon the run and just start heaving the ball all over the field. They have a potential OPOY at QB and a good set of receivers. But it won't be enough. NCC may even break the record for interceptions returned for TDs.

I laugh everytime Mugsy uses the term "SoDup." Mugsy, does that Masters diploma hanging on your wall say "SoDup?" 

The NC defense would like nothing more than to break the "pick six" record  (against Wheaton would be that much sweeter )and you can call us anything you want-as long as we win Saturday, nothing else matters. 

[cardinaldad]

Il Gator - I know what you mean about a tough crowd. Hence my comment about feeling this way after a 51-10 victory. I felt kind of funny after typing my thoughts......but there is an uneasy feeling about the wat we played. We can't start that way against the great teams. This isn't the first time we came out of the gates playing not very well. One game, we might get caught with out pants down if we continue these slow starts.

UWW has been tied or trailing in three of their conference games at halftime. What UWW and NCC are seeing is that teams are changing their defensive schemes to commit to stopping the running game. NCC has seen that especially with Augie and Elmhurst. A better takeaway in my view is that NCC made the offensive adjustments to find a way to score 5 TDs. Elmhurst did help a bit with a few bad decisions and turnovers.

If NCC came out flat and won by 41 points, that's a positive. In a lot of years, NCC came out flat and lost games that should have been easy wins. Don't expect complete dominance in every game, there is still tough competition every week in the CCIW.

I went back to 2003 and checked the stats. Dicken's completion rate is actually one percentage better than Kam Kniss in his freshman season. Kam was never asked to throw 33 passes in one game though. Albeit, the 2003 wasn't as good as this sason's team. Kam turned out to be a pretty decent QB. The expectations on Dicken by many fans is just too great.

One more point ILGator - Of course the expectations are high and they should be. I'm not arguing who should or shouldn't be the QB here, but Dicken is the QB of the 6th ranked team in the nation. He is the QB of a team that has had one of te better offenses in the nation. He replaced a QB that took them on a very nice playoff run last year and is still on the team. So yes, although he is a freshmen, the expectations are high. If teams are commiting to stop the run, the passing game should open up, no? Dicken will be fine! My only comment was that many balls were sailing on him on Saturday and were caught. Luckily for the receivers, they didn't get pasted. Conversely, some were about three yards short.

[cardinaldad]

Mugsy,
Napervile................Naperville..................Naperville....................

[Mugsy]

I laugh everytime Mugsy uses the term "SoDup." Mugsy, does that Masters diploma hanging on your wall say "SoDup?" 

I installed a sliding window in the back of the picture frame so that I could put masking tape with "SoDup" on it, just for this week.  Plus I put it in the closet for extra emphasis.  Don't want to deface my Masters diploma permanently, unless this trend of results continues.   

[Mugsy]

Mugsy,
Napervile................Naperville..................Naperville....................

Ok... I'll try again.

SoDup....... SoDup.....SoDup.......

[NCF]

Il Gator - I know what you mean about a tough crowd. Hence my comment about feeling this way after a 51-10 victory. I felt kind of funny after typing my thoughts......but there is an uneasy feeling about the wat we played. We can't start that way against the great teams. This isn't the first time we came out of the gates playing not very well. One game, we might get caught with out pants down if we continue these slow starts.

UWW has been tied or trailing in three of their conference games at halftime. What UWW and NCC are seeing is that teams are changing their defensive schemes to commit to stopping the running game. NCC has seen that especially with Augie and Elmhurst. A better takeaway in my view is that NCC made the offensive adjustments to find a way to score 5 TDs. Elmhurst did help a bit with a few bad decisions and turnovers.

If NCC came out flat and won by 41 points, that's a positive. In a lot of years, NCC came out flat and lost games that should have been easy wins. Don't expect complete dominance in every game, there is still tough competition every week in the CCIW.

I went back to 2003 and checked the stats. Dicken's completion rate is actually one percentage better than Kam Kniss in his freshman season. Kam was never asked to throw 33 passes in one game though. Albeit, the 2003 wasn't as good as this sason's team. Kam turned out to be a pretty decent QB. The expectations on Dicken by many fans is just too great.

One more point ILGator - Of course the expectations are high and they should be. I'm not arguing who should or shouldn't be the QB here, but Dicken is the QB of the 6th ranked team in the nation. He is the QB of a team that has had one of te better offenses in the nation. He replaced a QB that took them on a very nice playoff run last year and is still on the team. So yes, although he is a freshmen, the expectations are high. If teams are commiting to stop the run, the passing game should open up, no? Dicken will be fine! My only comment was that many balls were sailing on him on Saturday and were caught. Luckily for the receivers, they didn't get pasted. Conversely, some were about three yards short.

Agree on all points! But I still think you may see both qb's at some point, if needed. They had no problems yanking one or the other during the play-off run last year,to keep them on their toes.