FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[USee]

Results vs. RRO is a primary criterion, so it doesn't matter whether you think it's arbitrary.

Here are the resumés of the potential #1 seeds, using the d3football.com projected final regional rankings:

Mt Union   10-0, 0.493 SOS, 2-0 vs. RRO (d. North #6 ONU 51-7, North #10 John Carroll 36-3)
UST          10-0, 0.500 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d. West #5 SJU 35-14)
JHU          10-0, 0.517 SOS, 0-0 vs. RRO
Linfield       9-0, 0.495 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d West #8 Whitworth 52-10)
UWO          9-0, 0.491 SOS, 2-0 vs. RRO (d. West #4 UWW 10-7, West #6 UWP 63-28)
Wheaton   10-0, 0.509 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d. North #8 NCC 17-9)

UWO has a non-DIII loss, but that falls under secondary criteria and is supposed to be considered only if the primary criteria don't settle the picks.

The SOS is a wash, with all teams (with the possible exception of JHU), hovering around 0.500.  So I think the committee will have to pay a lot of attention to the RRO results.  Of those, JHU's & Wheaton's look least impressive.

Your very first sentence stands at complete odds with your very last sentence. Your interpretation of Wheaton and JH wins are arbitrary and subjective.  Those two have superior SOS, it's not "around .500". 

[izzy stradlin]

Results vs. RRO is a primary criterion, so it doesn't matter whether you think it's arbitrary.

Here are the resumés of the potential #1 seeds, using the d3football.com projected final regional rankings:

Mt Union   10-0, 0.493 SOS, 2-0 vs. RRO (d. North #6 ONU 51-7, North #10 John Carroll 36-3)
UST          10-0, 0.500 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d. West #5 SJU 35-14)
JHU          10-0, 0.517 SOS, 0-0 vs. RRO
Linfield       9-0, 0.495 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d West #8 Whitworth 52-10)
UWO          9-0, 0.491 SOS, 2-0 vs. RRO (d. West #4 UWW 10-7, West #6 UWP 63-28)
Wheaton   10-0, 0.509 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d. North #8 NCC 17-9)

UWO has a non-DIII loss, but that falls under secondary criteria and is supposed to be considered only if the primary criteria don't settle the picks.

The SOS is a wash, with all teams (with the possible exception of JHU), hovering around 0.500.  So I think the committee will have to pay a lot of attention to the RRO results.  Of those, JHU's & Wheaton's look least impressive.

Wait.  Are you telling me that the NCAA is not going to read my post on a message board about RRO remove this nonsense as a selection criteria??  That's what I though they were going to do.  Thanks for setting me straight.   

[ncc_fan]

Results vs. RRO is a primary criterion, so it doesn't matter whether you think it's arbitrary.

Here are the resumés of the potential #1 seeds, using the d3football.com projected final regional rankings:

Mt Union   10-0, 0.493 SOS, 2-0 vs. RRO (d. North #6 ONU 51-7, North #10 John Carroll 36-3)
UST          10-0, 0.500 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d. West #5 SJU 35-14)
JHU          10-0, 0.517 SOS, 0-0 vs. RRO
Linfield       9-0, 0.495 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d West #8 Whitworth 52-10)
UWO          9-0, 0.491 SOS, 2-0 vs. RRO (d. West #4 UWW 10-7, West #6 UWP 63-28)
Wheaton   10-0, 0.509 SOS, 1-0 vs. RRO (d. North #8 NCC 17-9)

UWO has a non-DIII loss, but that falls under secondary criteria and is supposed to be considered only if the primary criteria don't settle the picks.

The SOS is a wash, with all teams (with the possible exception of JHU), hovering around 0.500.  So I think the committee will have to pay a lot of attention to the RRO results.  Of those, JHU's & Wheaton's look least impressive.

Your very first sentence stands at complete odds with your very last sentence. Your interpretation of Wheaton and JH wins are arbitrary and subjective.  Those two have superior SOS, it's not "around .500".

Huh?  I said that the SOS numbers are very similar.  I also said that Wheaton & Johns Hopkins have less impressive RRO results than the competition.  Both statements are indeed subjective (although I think the first can be subjected to a statistical test - Mr. Ypsi?), but I don't see how they're contradictory. 

[wally_wabash]

Oshkosh beat Whitewater.  That's kind of a debate ender, isn't it? 

[izzy stradlin]

Oshkosh beat Whitewater.  That's kind of a debate ender, isn't it?

They were the only team on that list to play Whitewater.   Not a good way to compare teams.   

[izzy stradlin]

That 29-season losing streak aside, yesterday's upset win felt like justice was served. I realize that schadenfreude is not a Christian attitude, but, given the crap that Norm Eash has said to Mike Conway, it's hard not to savor the thought of Eash stewing over this loss for the entire off-season. Sometimes in life the Hollywood script plays out, and the arrogant do get their comeuppance.

We're listening...

[Gregory Sager]

The first time that Norm Eash met Mike Conway, this was their dialogue:

EASH: Why did you take that job? That's one of the worst football programs in the entire country!
CONWAY: That's exactly why I took it. I want to be the one who turns it around.
EASH: [chuckling] Well, good luck with that. But if North Park ever beats the Titans, it'll be long after I'm gone.

I'm not breaking anybody's confidence by retelling this. It seems like everybody connected to NPU football has already heard it.

[thunderdog]

Oshkosh beat Whitewater.  That's kind of a debate ender, isn't it?

Wally,
I would agree that Oshkosh deserves a #1 seed simply from the "We beat 1 of the purple powers" point-of-view. I also think that Mt Union and Linfield are no brainers. But what makes St Thomas that much more of a better candidate than Wheaton for that final #1?

They both have only 1 win vs a RRO and Wheaton has a slight edge in SOS. I also don't think the following can be overlooked:

The #4 North region ranked Franklin squad lost their only game vs the CCIW in IWU... A team that turned out to be somewhat mediocre in the conference at 4-3

NCC is just a 2 pt conversion away from a win over the #1 East ranked Wesley team. If NCC holds on against either Wesley or Plateville, they'd probably be ranked #4 in the North and a very strong candidate for a pool C bid. It's outrageous to consider Franklin #4 and NCC #8 in the region, IMO.

[thunderdog]

My Predictions:
B: Hardin Simmons
C1: Whitewater
C2: Wesley
C3: Mary Hardin Baylor
C4: St Johns
C5: Platteville
C6: Ohio Northern (I don't think they leave the #2 OAC team out)

My #1 seeds are : Mt U, Linfield, Oshkosh, and Wheaton

I think Wheaton has a better resume than St Thomas

[wally_wabash]

Oshkosh beat Whitewater.  That's kind of a debate ender, isn't it?

Wally,
I would agree that Oshkosh deserves a #1 seed simply from the "We beat 1 of the purple powers" point-of-view. I also think that Mt Union and Linfield are no brainers. But what makes St Thomas that much more of a better candidate than Wheaton for that final #1?

They both have only 1 win vs a RRO and Wheaton has a slight edge in SOS. I also don't think the following can be overlooked:

The #4 North region ranked Franklin squad lost their only game vs the CCIW in IWU... A team that turned out to be somewhat mediocre in the conference at 4-3

NCC is just a 2 pt conversion away from a win over the #1 East ranked Wesley team. If NCC holds on against either Wesley or Plateville, they'd probably be ranked #4 in the North and a very strong candidate for a pool C bid. It's outrageous to consider Franklin #4 and NCC #8 in the region, IMO.

We kind of don't get to play ifs and buts with the results.  If North Central won all of their games, they'd be CCIW champions.  But they didn't win all of their games.  In fact, they lost three games.  Those three games count as is. 

St. Thomas is ranked #1 in the West region.  There's no way they aren't getting one of the top 4 seeds.  If there is a debate to be had that involves Wheaton and the top 4 seeds, it's between Wheaton and Oshkosh and Oshkosh holds the hammer here. 

Frankly, there's no results-based argument for Wheaton > St. Thomas.

[Patrick Coleman]

I listened to the pre game show on the Wheaton broadcast and Mike Swider was asked what his team was playing for and his response turned my head...." We are playing for an undefeated season and a #1 seed in the playoffs. With all due respect to D3.com the coaches poll is the only poll that matters and we are #3".

Last year, when John Carroll and Wheaton met in the playoffs, JCU was No. 6 in our poll and Wheaton was No. 8.
In the coaches poll, Wheaton was No. 8 and John Carroll was No. 9. Which poll mattered on that day?

[izzy stradlin]

I listened to the pre game show on the Wheaton broadcast and Mike Swider was asked what his team was playing for and his response turned my head...." We are playing for an undefeated season and a #1 seed in the playoffs. With all due respect to D3.com the coaches poll is the only poll that matters and we are #3".

Last year, when John Carroll and Wheaton met in the playoffs, JCU was No. 6 in our poll and Wheaton was No. 8.
In the coaches poll, Wheaton was No. 8 and John Carroll was No. 9. Which poll mattered on that day?

For seeding, which was all that he was talking about in the interview, obviously the coaches poll.

[wally_wabash]

Trick question- neither poll influences selection and seeding.   

[izzy stradlin]

Right, and if I'm a Vegas style oddsmaker I'd take Pat's poll any day.  But I wonder if you retrospectively look at the polls in comparison with playoff seeding, which one correlates better. I don't know but I think there is a chance (for obvious reasons) that it could be the coaches poll.

[CardinalAlum]

The first time that Norm Eash met Mike Conway, this was their dialogue:

EASH: Why did you take that job? That's one of the worst football programs in the entire country!
CONWAY: That's exactly why I took it. I want to be the one who turns it around.
EASH: [chuckling] Well, good luck with that. But if North Park ever beats the Titans, it'll be long after I'm gone.

I'm not breaking anybody's confidence by retelling this. It seems like everybody connected to NPU football has already heard it.

Typical.  Great win for the Park!