FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Pat Coleman]

Lehnen doesn't qualify?

[robertgoulet]

Lehnen doesn't qualify?

As much as I love Lehnen I don't think I'd consider him a QB game breaker like you would have Boyes or Rutter simply because I think you can scheme against (keep him in the pocket and make him go through his reads and use his arm) him where you can't really with those other two.

[HAMBO]

North Park does not have an enrollment problem. Within athletics, the ever-increasing influx of Scandinavians pay in full, I presume, courtesy of his/her home country.

North Park does have an enrollment problem, Mark. Every school except for the very small upper-crust has an enrollment problem, as Pat and WUPHF pointed out. NPU forestalled the problem by a year by having a large freshman class, but make no mistake -- the school will be under the gun to repeat that every year for the foreseeable future in a dangerously tight market for wooing 17-year-olds. (Also, the good news regarding the large freshman class was somewhat lessened by a worse-than-usual retention rate for sophomores and by unsatisfactory numbers with regard to graduate enrollment.)

International students are part of the answer, but not nearly all of it. It costs money to recruit students abroad, so there are budgetary concerns with regard to the cost-benefit ratio of recruiting internationals. NPU's athletics department does a lot of the heavy lifting for admissions in that regard, since NPU has a lot of student-athletes who hail from Norway or Sweden, but by themselves they won't be enough to make up for the demographic shortfall.

And, no, not all Scandinavian countries foot the bills for a student's higher education. Swedes mostly pay full freight, although Norwegians pay little, if anything, because Norway is flush with oil money.

Eliminate football and reinvest in other athletic programs to make them stronger.  Yeah, the CCIW mandates blahblahblah...

Dismiss it as "blahblahblah" all you'd like, but you seriously underestimate the effect that CCIW membership has upon NPU's ability to recruit student-athletes. Drop out of the CCIW, and you may very well see what happened to North Park's sister school, Trinity International University, happen to North Park.

And by eliminating football you eliminate 100+ students from enrolling at North Park. Worse, it's 100+ male students, in an era in which higher education is a female-dominated endeavor and colleges and universities are thus actively seeking ways to encourage male enrollment.

The CCIW added Wash U and Carroll returned, and we read about contemplation to add another school.

Wash U and Carroll are not the same thing. Wash U is (soon "was") an associate member in football only. Carroll is a full member that plays all of its sports under the aegis of the CCIW, and Carroll thus has a seat on the council of CCIW presidents. Wash U, and fellow associate members Loras, Dubuque, MSOE, Chicago, etc., do not.

And the CCIW isn't adding another full member anytime soon. The CCIW presidents aren't even contemplating it. I've been told that more than once by NPU athletic director John Born over the past few years, including as recently as last week when it was announced that Wash U was involuntarily losing its associate status for football.

So, why is it so special that NP field a football team?

1. Tuition income
2. CCIW membership
3. Gender balance
4. The umbrella effect (in accordance with #1 and #3), as studies have shown that students at large are more likely to choose a college or university that has a football team than one that does not. (I'm pretty sure that the umbrella effect figured into Calvin's thinking when the school's leadership decided to add football after 160 years of not offering the sport.)
5. Alumni relations (despite North Park's perennial sad-sack performance on the gridiron, at least until recently, dumping the sport and leaving the CCIW for uncharted waters would almost certainly not sit well with most alumni)

Regarding the magic number for scheduling football-so what.  That is a diversionary tactic.

Diversionary tactic by whom, and for what purpose? Unless some amenable school comes forward cap in hand to apply for associate status in football, the CCIW is going to go to an unbalanced schedule when Wash U leaves, no doubt about it. It will be the responsibility of the nine CCIW football head coaches to deal with the problems of scheduling inherent in an odd-numbered D3 football league.

The financial health of the institution is obviously most important. Also, North Park's gender equity numbers to Prong One are top five worst in the Midwest, regardless of division status. Prong Two is a non-starter. In Prong Three, the absence of lacrosse represents a concern. In addition, athletic facilities are beyond taxed for this landlocked institution.

This is your area of expertise, so there's no doubt that you're right about NPU's Title IX status. But I have heard nothing about anything punitive being sent NPU's way because of it. I do know that John Born is looking at alternatives in terms of adding another women's sport or two -- but the financial situation is so delicate in this demographic environment that adding more sports has to be done carefully and with a lot of deliberation.

It's highly unlikely that women's lacrosse is under consideration, because, as you said, Holmgren Athletic Complex is already overextended every fall and spring as it is. NPU would probably have to rent facilities elsewhere (such as the athletic field at nearby Northeastern Illinois University) for both practice and competition, and that rental fee is itself a huge disincentive to add the sport, budgetwise.

North Park has somewhat of a housing crunch and aged dorms that need to be replaced.

I doubt that the dorms will be replaced, since dormitories are the dinosaurs of American higher education. NPU would like to acquire more apartment property, but that brings us right back to the issue of the budget crunch.

Thank you, Greg, for educating us on the facts about D111 private schools. It was very helpful for me.

[WUPHF]

And Division III public schools. There was a story posted elsewhere about Oshkosh, for example, and their enrollment woes, but every campus in the University of Wisconsin system is struggling to some degree.

[CarollFan]

And Division III public schools. There was a story posted elsewhere about Oshkosh, for example, and their enrollment woes, but every campus in the University of Wisconsin system is struggling to some degree.

https://www.wpr.org/news/uw-campus-projected-deficits-after-cost-savings-efforts

[Gregory Sager]

First game so hoping that was the reason for the all the penalties, committing 10+ is never good though. 

Been there, done that.

[NCC2010]

Lehnen doesn't qualify?

As much as I love Lehnen I don't think I'd consider him a QB game breaker like you would have Boyes or Rutter simply because I think you can scheme against (keep him in the pocket and make him go through his reads and use his arm) him where you can't really with those other two.

I think Sacco has developed into this type of player.  He looks much stronger through contact than before and still has the breakaway speed.  The big difference to me is no game breaker at WR which has been a staple of the NCC offense pretty much the entire Thorne era.

I also think people are equating the NCC defense we saw in last year's playoffs with the one that started the season/finished off the 2022 title.  Dan Lester and Antwain Walker were both game breaker type talents and without those 2 the defense is still really good, but not dominant. The 2022 defense also had two 5th year/graduate defensive ends and was really on a different level than any of the other defenses we have had during this run.

How this team performs is going to fall a lot on the shoulders of Lehnen, Sacco and the offensive line IMO.

[CarollFan]

Saw a tweet (or X) on this today.
Looks like they developed technology where coaches can send in plays to a player wearing a watch. This article says the Liberty league in D3 was looking to try it?

https://gorout.com/liberty-league/#:~:text=Rochester%2C%20Minn.,for%20the%202024%2D25%20season.

[Gregory Sager]

How does a device like that stay functional through the repeated violent contact of a football game?

[CarollFan]

How does a device like that stay functional through the repeated violent contact of a football game?

Good question. This is tweet on X where they show the watch.

https://x.com/DrewRob52/status/1836059507740299291?t=WMBnqstn2qDkXUV7XrOMeQ&s=19

Some more specifics in comments.

Also looks like NCC already using some of their tech.

https://youtu.be/Iu42JmDSU30?si=LgZanFjORiDWRXqa

[The Third Division]

Does anyone know why WASHU joined the CCIW in the first place?

[CarollFan]

Does anyone know why WASHU joined the CCIW in the first place?

Some info here.

https://www.studlife.com/sports/2024/09/06/washu-football-loses-cciw-associate-membership-to-leave-conference-before-2026-season#:~:text=WashU%20then%20joined%20the%20CCIW,every%20season%20of%20their%20membership.

[CarollFan]

Does anyone know why WASHU joined the CCIW in the first place?

In this article when they joined there is a quote from their athletic director.
https://cciw.org/news/2015/6/12/FB_0612151456.aspx?path=football


"Our goal at Washington University is to provide a life-changing experience for our student-athletes that, we hope, will include the opportunity to participate in a nationally competitive program," Whitman said. "The small number of schools playing football in the UAA and the travel distances required in the SAA have made it difficult for us to accomplish those goals in the sport of football. The CCIW is an excellent fit for WashU Football. It is a highly competitive conference featuring some of the country's best teams. We will enjoy a solid, competitive schedule year in and year out, with the conference champion earning an automatic bid into the NCAA tournament. At the same time, the schools' locations will allow us to keep our student-athletes' travel time to a minimum. We would like to thank Commissioner Chris Martin and the CCIW member institutions for their warm welcome and partnership. We are excited about the quality experience that our football student-athletes will receive while participating in the CCIW."

[Cardinal773]

When traveling for CCIW competition, which teams use hotels?  I'd imagine Carthage at Wash U.

I can only imagine that, despite the quality of the program, the distances and the travel costs associated with traveling to St. Louis were a big factor in their being dropped. Ironic because that was a major reason Wash U had for joining.

[CarollFan]

When traveling for CCIW competition, which teams use hotels?  I'd imagine Carthage at Wash U.

I can only imagine that, despite the quality of the program, the distances and the travel costs associated with traveling to St. Louis were a big factor in their being dropped. Ironic because that was a major reason Wash U had for joining.

Carroll when they travel to WashU, IWU, Millikin and Augie.