FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[usee]

Gregory,

I couldn't agree more.

[usee]

This weekend in btown...iwu v npu.

Npu has no chance. None. Bwatts has a chance but the team does not. They are not talented enough right now to compete in the cciw. Iwu can beat anyone in thew cciw, npu cannot. It won't be close.

[usee]

I am mildly surprised that a majority of the pollsters pick Augie over NCC this weekend. Having seen both teams play I really think NCC is a better team than Augie. The game is in naperville, ncc has the best offense in the conference and a better than average defense.

I am curious to know why some picked Augie.

Jaybird, you have seen both teams, what do you think?

[Gregory Sager]

I should add to my earlier point that the D3football.com Team of the Week recognition that was given to Brandon Watts was also specifically for his performance on special teams. He's listed as a returner in the TOW's Special Teams category, not as a wide receiver in the TOW's Offense category.

[CardinalAlum]

I am mildly surprised that a majority of the pollsters pick Augie over NCC this weekend. Having seen both teams play I really think NCC is a better team than Augie. The game is in naperville, ncc has the best offense in the conference and a better than average defense.

I am curious to know why some picked Augie.

Usee,

I picked Augie and I will give you two reasons why.

1) I have a concern about NCC's ability to stop the run.  It is a MUST that we get off to a lead in this game and put Augie in chase mode.

2) My second concern is the way we have come out ready to play in a couple of the conference games.   Other than the Wheaton game, we really have not played well in the first half. 

It doesn't get any bigger than this one.  If we can't get up for this game with the chance to move into a tie for the conference lead, against Augie, at home, then we will never be ready to play.

Believe me, I hope I am wrong and I will be the first to happily admit it if we can get it done. 

[Mugsy]

I will withhold comment about Andrew Hersey, but I think you're wrong to question Watts' Player of the Week achievement, Mugsy. As I said yesterday, I agree with you that there is an inflation factor that needs to be taken into consideration when looking at his receiving statistics from last Saturday, because some of his catches (including the 75-yard TD catch) came against Wheaton's reserves.

But the CCIW recognizes three categories of POW: Offensive Player of the Week, Defensive Player of the Week, and Special Teams Player of the Week. Hersey won Offensive Player of the Week, and John Scardullo of Elmhurst was named the Defensive Player of the Week. Brandon Watts was the Special Teams Player of the Week. All of his 150 total return yards came against, presumably, the same eleven guys who normally play on Wheaton's kickoff unit. What is indisputable is that the play that garnered Watts the POW award, his 95-yard kickoff return for a touchdown in the first quarter, is without any sort of taint that could be inferred from second-half offensive or defensive substitutions in a blowout. And it is also indisputable that the question of whether or not his receiving yards were the genuine article is irrelevant. He won as the Special Teams Player of the Week, not as the Offensive Player of the Week.

Brandon Watts earned this award, fair and square, and the fact that he ran back that kickoff in a mismatched blowout is irrelevant.

I'm afraid I should have left out the "case in point" section.  I will not argue last weeks selections or any others, because almost always they are players who had great games and it comes down to a vote (judgement call) over several worth candidates. 

I was primarily interested in the question of whether or not players involved in massive blowouts due to differences in talent level are more worthy of POW awards than those with less impressive stats but a bigger impact on a huge game.  Things were pretty quiet for a day or so and I was just trying to pick the brains of others to see what they think. 

Unfortunately all responses morphed into correctly pointing out my mistake in failing to point out that Brandon Watts was considered based on his special teams play.  Greg & usee, you are correct that Watts was special teams player of the week for both awards and rightfully so given the 95 yard kickoff return.  Again... the purpose was not to question individuals specifically (even though I probably did indirectly to give an example for my question).

Next time I ask a question I guess I need to leave out names...  

[usee]

I am mildly surprised that a majority of the pollsters pick Augie over NCC this weekend. Having seen both teams play I really think NCC is a better team than Augie. The game is in naperville, ncc has the best offense in the conference and a better than average defense.

I am curious to know why some picked Augie.

Usee,

I picked Augie and I will give you two reasons why.

1) I have a concern about NCC's ability to stop the run.  It is a MUST that we get off to a lead in this game and put Augie in chase mode.

2) My second concern is the way we have come out ready to play in a couple of the conference games.   Other than the Wheaton game, we really have not played well in the first half. 

It doesn't get any bigger than this one.  If we can't get up for this game with the chance to move into a tie for the conference lead, against Augie, at home, then we will never be ready to play.

Believe me, I hope I am wrong and I will be the first to happily admit it if we can get it done. 

I see your points and agree to some degree but I think your viewpoint is a little too narrow. I noticed vs spread sets NCC tends to leave a smaller number of players in the box, daring teams to run and counting on their front 7 or 6 to defeat blocks and make tackles. wheaton had a lot of success in the 2nd half vs ncc w a shotgun spread formation giving it to chaz black. Augie will have no such luxury with a nonexistent passing game. I am betting the NCC coaches will load the box and dare augie to pass (which they won't do). the single dimension Augie attack will play to NCC this weekend. Kniss won't be stopped and I think the pass defense of Augie is the weakest part of their defense. Augie hasn't seen an offense this year as good as Kniss.

Those be my thoughts.

[Mugsy]

I am mildly surprised that a majority of the pollsters pick Augie over NCC this weekend. Having seen both teams play I really think NCC is a better team than Augie. The game is in naperville, ncc has the best offense in the conference and a better than average defense.

I am curious to know why some picked Augie.

Usee,

I picked Augie and I will give you two reasons why.

1) I have a concern about NCC's ability to stop the run.  It is a MUST that we get off to a lead in this game and put Augie in chase mode.

2) My second concern is the way we have come out ready to play in a couple of the conference games.   Other than the Wheaton game, we really have not played well in the first half. 

It doesn't get any bigger than this one.  If we can't get up for this game with the chance to move into a tie for the conference lead, against Augie, at home, then we will never be ready to play.

Believe me, I hope I am wrong and I will be the first to happily admit it if we can get it done. 

I see your points and agree to some degree but I think your viewpoint is a little too narrow. I noticed vs spread sets NCC tends to leave a smaller number of players in the box, daring teams to run and counting on their front 7 or 6 to defeat blocks and make tackles. wheaton had a lot of success in the 2nd half vs ncc w a shotgun spread formation giving it to chaz black. Augie will have no such luxury with a nonexistent passing game. I am betting the NCC coaches will load the box and dare augie to pass (which they won't do). the single dimension Augie attack will play to NCC this weekend. Kniss won't be stopped and I think the pass defense of Augie is the weakest part of their defense. Augie hasn't seen an offense this year as good as Kniss.

Those be my thoughts.

Good thoughts usee... I agree with you on this and it is why I voted for NCC by a close margin.  I also factored in home field to NCC as well. 

I do expect Augie to hit on one important pass play in a key situation (not saying it will be a TD though).  Now that they are running the ball much more effectively and they have a QB (from the report of others) who can actually throw the ball in the general direction of a receiver, their play action pass off the double-dive is a dangerous play that often appears in the 2nd half. 

As a LB it was the one play that concerned me most.  The half back would come at me much like a normal double-dive and then at the last moment would attempt to avade me to run a seam route.  Being in man to man and responsible to cover him, it was a delicate balance between preparing to take on the block and make a play, and reacting quickly to cover a deep route.  Fortunately for me, the 3 years I started against Augie, their QB wasn't much better at throwing the ball than Roe.

[matblake]

I picked Augie because of 2 reasons.  The first is ball control.  North Central's first loss (albeit in double overtime) was to a run dominated team.  Kniss can score in a hurry, which is what I believe brought the Cardinals back in that game, but Augustana can be relentless with ball control.

Secondly, North Central has yet to put together a completely dominating performance for an entire game.  Against the Vikings, particularly now that their offense has seemed to get on track, you need to dominate the entire game.  Wheaton had several defensive miscues that Augustana had the talent and know how to capitalize on.  North Central cannot simply play hot and cold and expect to win this game, and that is basically all we have seen from the Cardinals this year.

[Comet 14]

Jay-bird I did not say that Elmhurst should play to stay with-in 7 to 10 points. The players and coaches should think they can winn every game they play or they shouldn't be on the team. I have been part of and witnessed many games when a team played a good game and did not win. Sometimes the other team is just better. You say that if Elmhurst loses then they didn't play a good game. Then you say there is no reason Elmhurst can't give Wheaton a good fight just like Carthage gave Augie a good fight last week. Carthage lost that game so according to you they didn't play a good game. Which is it? I hope Elmhurst plays it's best game of the year, and if they do that and don't come out on top then I am o.k. with that.

[ncc58]

My thoughts on the NCC-Augie game.

On the question of whether NCC can stop the run.

The only team that has effectively run against NCC for an entire game was Concordia. Wheaton had some success, but primarily in the second half. However, the player rotation used by NCC on defense is completely different than the first game. In that first game, some of the younger players (freshmen and sophomores) saw no or spot duty. They have been worked into games gradually. Now, there are definite run and pass packages, if you watch the DL and LB substitution patterns. Of course, this week, we'll see mainly the run packages.

NCC gave up 247 net rushing yards to Wheaton but only 44 in the first half. They held Elmhurst to 49 yards on 36 attempts and Millikin to 43 yards on 25 attempts. Wallick was held to 50 yards on 12 carries. They will see much of the play action from Augie that they saw from Concordia, albeit different formations. Concordia hurt NCC the most with counter plays off their tight formations when the DEs drifted outside or upfield.  But that game experience, along with changes in personel, should help. NCC can stop the Augie running game.

Coming out flat? Against Augie? When your season is on the line? With a real opportunity for your first conference title in 46 years? coming out flat hasn't been the problem.

The problem all season has been spotty execution on special teams. There have been fumbled punts, poor kickoff returns, and at times lazy coverage. But, the biggest problem the last two weeks has been the punt team. Opponents have clearly identified a weakness. Elmhurst nearly blocked 4 or 5 punts and did tip one that led to field position at the NCC 30 and a TD in the 4th quarter. Last week, Millikin blocked a punt for  an early TD. So, a key to the game may be whether NCC can not hurt itself on special teams.

Kniss will throw for 3 TDs, can NCC not give easy points to Augie?

[matblake]

My thoughts on the NCC-Augie game.

On the question of whether NCC can stop the run.

The only team that has effectively run against NCC for an entire game was Concordia. Wheaton had some success, but primarily in the second half. However, the player rotation used by NCC on defense is completely different than the first game. In that first game, some of the younger players (freshmen and sophomores) saw no or spot duty. They have been worked into games gradually. Now, there are definite run and pass packages, if you watch the DL and LB substitution patterns. Of course, this week, we'll see mainly the run packages.

NCC gave up 247 net rushing yards to Wheaton but only 44 in the first half. They held Elmhurst to 49 yards on 36 attempts and Millikin to 43 yards on 25 attempts. Wallick was held to 50 yards on 12 carries. They will see much of the play action from Augie that they saw from Concordia, albeit different formations. Concordia hurt NCC the most with counter plays off their tight formations when the DEs drifted outside or upfield.  But that game experience, along with changes in personel, should help. NCC can stop the Augie running game.

Coming out flat? Against Augie? When your season is on the line? With a real opportunity for your first conference title in 46 years? coming out flat hasn't been the problem.

The problem all season has been spotty execution on special teams. There have been fumbled punts, poor kickoff returns, and at times lazy coverage. But, the biggest problem the last two weeks has been the punt team. Opponents have clearly identified a weakness. Elmhurst nearly blocked 4 or 5 punts and did tip one that led to field position at the NCC 30 and a TD in the 4th quarter. Last week, Millikin blocked a punt for  an early TD. So, a key to the game may be whether NCC can not hurt itself on special teams.

Kniss will throw for 3 TDs, can NCC not give easy points to Augie?

I don't doubt that NC can stop the run, but can they do it consistently.  That is the key.  Augustana has shown on its CCIW schedule that it will take advantage of mistakes.  I wish that I had a quarter for each time that somebody made mention of consistently stopping the Viking rushing attack for 95% of the game only to lose because of the 5% of the time they didn't.  I don't think I would be rich, but I would definitely have at least $3.

[Mugsy]

The only team that has effectively run against NCC for an entire game was Concordia. Wheaton had some success, but primarily in the second half.

NCC gave up 247 net rushing yards to Wheaton but only 44 in the first half. They held Elmhurst to 49 yards on 36 attempts and Millikin to 43 yards on 25 attempts. Wallick was held to 50 yards on 12 carries. They will see much of the play action from Augie that they saw from Concordia, albeit different formations. Concordia hurt NCC the most with counter plays off their tight formations when the DEs drifted outside or upfield.  But that game experience, along with changes in personel, should help. NCC can stop the Augie running game.

I'd argue Wheaton was more effective in running against NCC than Concordia.  Concordia is almost all run and virtually no pass, much like Augie.  So the NCC defense was stacked to stop the run against Concordia with little attention to the pass.  Concordia had 348 yards rushing on 63 carries for 5.52 ypc.  Concordia only had 12 yards passing.  Wheaton had 247 yards rushing on only 38 carries for a 6.5 ypc.  6.5 yards per carry, I'd say that is pretty effective. 

You can't break things up by one half this, one half that.  There has been far too much "we stopped them for one half" talk lately (particularly from the Elmhurst contingent).  It takes a game, an entire game.

Stopping a team for half, even 3 1/2 quarters is meaningless if you don't win.

[Mugsy]

I wish that I had a quarter for each time that somebody made mention of consistently stopping the Viking rushing attack for 95% of the game only to lose because of the 5% of the time they didn't.  I don't think I would be rich, but I would definitely have at least $3.

The point I was trying to make in my previous post, but you did it much better. 

In 2 of the losses against Augustana during my playing years, we held Augustana to less than 2.7 yards per carry for 95% of the rushing attempts.  Umm... the other 5% of the carries, at least 5 or 6 TD's of 50+ yards.  Result: Rather easy victories for Augustana (31-13 and 28-14)

[79jaybird]

Mugsy,  k+ (about the 1999 game.  hehe   )  Augie was thanking us that year.
Usee-- I agree with what CardinalAlum and MatBlake have already mentioned.
I think the bottom line is that if Augie is able to open up shop and pound the ball inside, keeping their offense on the field, chewing up the clock, then Kniss and Co. are going to be a less vital role of the game.  Obviously if Kniss is kept off the field, then NC can't score offensively.
In the EC/Augie game, Augie was not finding their bread and butter runs inside (between the tackles).  McGinnis was finding room operating the option off the wings.  I think this will hold true for Saturday's Game.  Elmhurst had minimal opportunity inside A or B gaps 2 weeks ago vs. NC.
Defensively,  I think many don't realize that Augie's defense is pretty sound.  Their corners kept the Elmhurst receivers pretty quiet for most of the game and their D-Line was penetrating well.
I picked Augie mostly because Augie's offense hasn't been stopped for 4 quarters yet (in CCIW competition) and common opponent. (Wheaton beat NC and Augie beat Wheaton).
Should be an exciting game in Naperville and I hope all of those residents in that area come out to the game.