Top 25 talk

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Is the top 25 about who are the best teams at the end of the season or who are the best teams right now?  Otherwise what is even the point of doing a poll if results aren't going to matter.

I think voters have different perspectives on that question, honestly.  Pat doesn't dictate what the Top 25 should signify.  I do think it's got to be more than results, though, because the computers are far better at calculating that sort of thing than any group of humans could.

I do think results matter, but I still try to evaluate programs based on more than one game.  I watched the entire Tufts-Babson game.  It was Tufts first real action of the season and they were awful in the first half.  The came back in the second and made it close.  Yes, they lost it, but if they played 10 times, I'd pick Tufts to win more than 5 of them.

I approach my ballot much more focused on the future.  If two teams played tomorrow on a neutral court, who do I think would win?  The results inform that decision, but they don't dictate it.

[KnightSlappy]

Is the top 25 about who are the best teams at the end of the season or who are the best teams right now?  Otherwise what is even the point of doing a poll if results aren't going to matter.

Didn't every voter react to results? Tufts moved down a bunch in the poll. I use results when forming my opinion of teams and constructing my ballot, but I'm specifically trying NOT to take my Top 25 ballot and turn it into a resume contest, at least no this early in the season. I'm still trying to decide who I think would win if teams played next week. We're early in the season and I still lean on my preseason expectations a fair bit. Tufts' play so far has eroded that expectation, but I still think they are good and will be good.

[Pat Coleman]

Regarding Tufts vs. Babson:

• At Babson
• Tufts' first game; Babson's third
• NESCAC schools are not allowed to have outside scrimmages

A voter might react in any of a number of ways to that result.

[stlawus]

A lot of excuses it seems. 

[Pat Coleman]

A lot of excuses it seems. 

It's all data that some of our 25 voters might deem worthy of consideration.

Looks like you may be looking for us to sort teams by wins and losses -- if so, you might want to look at a standings page.

[stlawus]

Like I said, a lot of excuses. This isn't exclusive to d3 hoops (SEC gets the same treatment in CFB).  Just have to do the simple blind test, remove the name Tufts/NESCAC and we all know it's not a ranked team.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	616	Trinity (Conn.)	5-0	def. (n) Sage, 105-46; won at Union, 97-56
#2	583	Randolph-Macon	4-0	IDLE
#3	560	UW-La Crosse	6-0	def. St. John's, 80-65
#4	515	Redlands	5-0	IDLE
#5	511	Washington U.	6-0	def. #37 Wabash, 82-74; def. Colorado College, 92-57; def. Rhodes, 94-78
#6	499	Illinois Wesleyan	5-1	LOST to UW-Stout, 58-66
#7	438	Mary Washington	6-0	IDLE
#8	404	Chicago	5-1	def. (n) Rhodes, 84-70; def. (n) Colorado College, 73-69
#9	394	Emory	3-1	IDLE
#10	372	Hampden-Sydney	4-1	IDLE
#11	342	Wesleyan	3-2	LOST at Farmingdale State, 73-75
#12	286	Calvin	4-1	def. Heidelberg, 74-49
#13	273	Roanoke	4-1	IDLE
#14	237	Montclair State	5-0	def. Rowan, 100-86
#15	193	Virginia Wesleyan	5-1	def. Regent, 74-58; def. (n) Pfeiffer, 83-67; def. (n) Dickinson, 74-56
#16	171	Trinity (Texas)	6-1	won at La Roche, 90-77; def. #46 Hardin-Simmons, 81-73
#17	167	UW-Oshkosh	5-1	won at Edgewood, 90-63; won at Augustana, 84-77
#18	138	Mount Union	7-0	def. Wooster, 81-72
#19	134	WPI	5-1	won at Fitchburg State, 85-65
#20	132	TCNJ	5-1	def. William Paterson, 85-68
#21	131	Catholic	5-1	def. Marymount, 69-56
#22	98	Tufts	5-2	won at MIT, 74-67; won at Keene State, 82-79
#23	97	Drew	6-0	won at St. Joseph's (L.I.), 86-74
#24	93	Hood	6-0	IDLE
#25	85	Whitworth	4-0	IDLE

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	80	Maryville	7-2	def. Hanover, 84-68
#27	68	Christopher Newport	5-2	def. Dickinson, 79-68; def. Pfeiffer, 80-66
#28	65	St. Thomas (Texas)	5-1	def. #46 Hardin-Simmons, 80-74 OT; def. Mary Hardin-Baylor, 77-71
T#29	45	Carthage	3-2	won at Ripon, 84-56
T#29	45	Williams	5-1	def. Massachusetts College, 87-41; LOST at Rhode Island College, 63-70
#31	44	Coe	5-1	LOST at MSOE, 72-81
#32	40	Babson	6-1	def. Wentworth, 98-54; def. St. Joseph (Conn.), 87-82
#33	32	Trine	4-2	LOST at Anderson, 81-95
#34	31	Western New England	6-0	def. Worcester State, 72-57
#35	27	UW-Platteville	4-2	def. Augustana, 76-74 OT
#36	25	Endicott	6-1	IDLE
#37	21	Wabash	3-1	LOST at #5 Washington U., 74-82
#38	20	Elmhurst	5-0	won at DePauw, 75-71
#39	19	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	7-0	def. Linfield, 70-48; def. (n) Puget Sound, 86-64
#40	18	York (Pa.)	5-0	IDLE
#41	13	John Carroll	4-0	IDLE
T#42	11	Colby	6-0	won at Lasell, 75-66; def. Maine-Fort Kent, 81-62
T#42	11	New York University	6-0	won at Cal Lutheran, 78-63; def. (n) George Fox, 105-69
#44	10	Muskingum	6-0	def. Earlham, 82-72
#45	9	UW-Stevens Point	5-1	LOST at North Park, 114-115 3OT
#46	7	Hardin-Simmons	4-4	LOST at #28 St. Thomas (Texas), 74-80 OT; LOST at #16 Trinity (Texas), 73-81
#47	3	Franklin and Marshall	6-1	def. Eastern, 85-73; def. Hamilton, 74-53
T#48	1	Vassar	4-0	IDLE
T#48	1	Washington and Jefferson	5-2	IDLE
T#48	1	UW-Eau Claire	8-0	won at Bethel, 68-52; def. St. Olaf, 85-65

Darryl, thank you very much for doing "How They Fared" again.  It's a huge help as a Top 25 voter. Hope all is well.

My pleasure; I'm happy to contribute to the cause.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	624	Trinity (Conn.)	7-0	won at St. Joseph (Conn.), 72-68; def. #32 Babson, 77-44
#2	579	Randolph-Macon	6-0	def. #8 Hampden-Sydney, 85-50; def. #14 Roanoke, 66-61
#3	570	UW-La Crosse	7-0	won at Ripon, 72-62
#4	536	Washington U.	7-0	def. Webster, 84-79
#5	531	Redlands	5-1	LOST at Chapman, 63-75
#6	478	Mary Washington	8-0	won at Gettysburg, 65-52; def. Dickinson, 88-74
#7	418	Chicago	7-1	won at Lake Forest, 84-80; def. Kalamazoo, 103-64
#8	401	Hampden-Sydney	5-2	LOST at #2 Randolph-Macon, 50-85; won at Eastern Mennonite, 64-62
#9	390	Emory	5-1	def. Huntingdon, 93-78; def. Berry, 90-65
#10	375	Illinois Wesleyan	6-2	won at T#30 Carthage, 85-81 OT; LOST at North Central (Ill.), 57-68
#11	327	Calvin	5-1	def. #17 UW-Oshkosh, 89-52
#12	266	Montclair State	7-0	def. William Paterson, 102-75; won at Rutgers-Newark, 87-74
#13	263	Virginia Wesleyan	7-1	def. Eastern Mennonite, 70-65; def. Randolph, 71-62
#14	231	Roanoke	5-2	won at Guilford, 98-79; LOST at #2 Randolph-Macon, 61-66
#15	219	Trinity (Texas)	6-2	LOST at #26 St. Thomas (Texas), 53-66
#16	216	Mount Union	8-0	def. Otterbein, 75-63
#17	192	UW-Oshkosh	6-2	def. Benedictine, 87-71; LOST at #11 Calvin, 52-89
#18	162	Catholic	7-1	won at Juniata, 86-71; def. Wilkes, 91-79
#19	149	TCNJ	5-3	LOST at Stockton, 64-80; LOST to Kean, 64-68
#20	144	Drew	7-1	LOST to Elizabethtown, 93-95 OT; def. Lycoming, 75-72
#21	141	Hood	6-1	LOST at T#46 Johns Hopkins, 89-93
#22	139	WPI	7-1	won at #32 Babson, 65-60; won at Clark, 76-72
#23	113	Wesleyan	5-2	def. Worcester State, 83-75; def. #38 Williams, 65-54
#24	106	Tufts	7-2	def. Bridgewater State, 121-67; def. Lasell, 87-59
#25	86	Whitworth	4-1	LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 90-92

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	85	St. Thomas (Texas)	6-1	def. #15 Trinity (Texas), 66-53
#27	52	Maryville (Tenn.)	9-2	def. JWU-Charlotte, 94-70; def. East Texas Baptist, 76-63
#28	48	UW-Eau Claire	8-0	IDLE
#29	38	New York U.	7-1	LOST at Yeshiva, 83-88; def. Farmingdale State, 84-68
T#30	35	Christopher Newport	7-2	won at Marymount, 82-70; won at Southern Virginia, 81-58
T#30	35	Carthage	4-3	LOST to #10 Illinois Wesleyan, 81-85 OT; def. Carroll, 81-76
#32	28	Babson	6-3	LOST to #22 WPI, 60-65; LOST at #1 Trinity (Conn.), 44-77
#33	21	York (Pa.)	7-0	def. Dickinson, 88-72; def. Delaware Valley, 70-57
#34	20	UW-Platteville	5-2	def. T#48 Dubuque, 81-73
#35	19	Western New England	7-2	LOST to Hartford, 74-76; LOST to (n) Eastern Connecticut, 56-74; def. (n) Maine-Fort Kent, 81-66
#36	16	Endicott	8-1	won at Regis (Mass.), 77-61; won at Wentworth, 91-56
#37	14	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	9-0	def. La Verne, 77-68; won at Whittier, 70-59
#38	12	Williams	6-2	def. T#48 Vassar, 79-69; LOST at #23 Wesleyan, 54-65
#39	11	John Carroll	5-1	def. St. Vincent, 104-79; LOST at Wittenberg, 79-80
#40	9	Elmhurst	5-2	LOST at UW-Whitewater, 72-88; LOST at Wheaton (Ill.), 81-82
#41	7	Muskingum	8-0	won at Capital, 95-78; def. Baldwin Wallace, 80-61
#42	4	Colby	6-1	LOST at St. Joseph's (Maine), 81-82 OT
T#43	3	Bates	7-0	won at Bowdoin, 54-50
T#43	3	Franklin and Marshall	7-1	won at Stevens, 77-74 OT
T#43	3	North Park	5-2	LOST at Carroll, 78-81; def. Millikin, 78-65
T#46	2	Johns Hopkins	6-1	def. #21 Hood, 93-89; def. Swarthmore, 76-69
T#46	2	UW-Stevens Point	6-1	def. North Central (Minn.), 78-65
T#48	1	Dubuque	5-2	LOST to Loras, 69-84; LOST at #34 UW-Platteville, 73-81
T#48	1	Vassar	6-1	LOST at #38 Williams, 69-79; def. Ithaca, 86-82; def. Hobart, 85-74

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking of Tufts, I came across something interesting while doing research this morning for North Park's men's basketball record book. I was reading an old issue of the school newspaper, and I came across a reprint of the Associated Press NCAA Division III poll for January 7, 1986:

1. Potsdam State (NY) 10-0
2. Wisconsin-Whitewater 8-0
3. DePauw (IN) 9-1
4. Clark (MA) 9-0
5. Moravian (PA) 7-1
6. Trenton State (NJ) 10-1
7. LeMoyne-Owen (TN) 9-1
8. Otterbein (OH) 11-2
9. Hamilton (NY) 5-1
10. Washington (MD) 8-1
11. Upsala (NJ) 10-1
12. St. John's (MN) 7-0
13. Hartwick (NY) 8-0
14. Wittenberg (OH) 12-1
15. Scranton (PA) 9-2
16. North Park (IL) 9-3
17. CSC-Stanislaus (CA) 10-2
18. Jersey City State (NJ) 10-2
19. Tufts (MA) 5-2
20. Centre (KY) 8-3

A lot has changed in four decades, of course. CSC-Stanislaus (now CSU Stanislaus) and LeMoyne-Owen both moved to D2 many years ago. Upsala closed its doors over three decades ago. Trenton State is now the College of New Jersey, and Jersey City State is now New Jersey City.

The only school that was in this AP D3 Top Twenty poll from four decades ago that is also in the current D3hoops Top 25 poll is ... wait for it ... Tufts.

Cue the angry retort from stlawus.

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Awaiting result for Concordia (Texas) vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Trinity (Conn.)	8-0	def. Hartford, 95-68
#2	598	Randolph-Macon	6-0	IDLE
#3	573	UW-La Crosse	7-0	IDLE
#4	539	Washington U.	8-0	won at Rose-Hulman, 87-74
#5	510	Mary Washington	8-0	IDLE
#6	480	Chicago	7-1	IDLE
#7	445	Emory	5-1	IDLE
#8	429	Calvin	6-1	def. Kuyper, 79-56
#9	364	Montclair State	9-0	won at Ramapo, 95-72; def. Rutgers-Camden, 89-63
#10	341	Redlands	5-1	IDLE
#11	317	Virginia Wesleyan	7-1	IDLE
#12	306	Mount Union	9-0	won at #35 Muskingum, 85-82
#13	273	Roanoke	5-2	IDLE
#14	268	Catholic	7-1	IDLE
#15	254	Hampden-Sydney	5-2	IDLE
#16	234	WPI	7-1	IDLE
#17	209	St. Thomas (Texas)	7-1	won at Colorado College, 84-80 OT
#18	208	Illinois Wesleyan	6-3	LOST at Elmhurst, 66-67
#19	132	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	9-0	IDLE
#20	129	York (Pa.)	7-0	IDLE
#21	117	Tufts	7-2	IDLE
#22	104	UW-Eau Claire	10-0	def. Northwestern (Minn.), 79-63; won at UW-Superior, 68-49
#23	102	Johns Hopkins	6-1	IDLE
#24	92	Trinity (Texas)	7-2	def. Mary Hardin-Baylor, 82-77
#25	88	Wesleyan	8-2	def. Lasell, 82-79; won at Salem State, 75-61; def. Western New England, 75-65

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	59	Maryville (Tenn.)	9-2	IDLE
#27	56	Hood	7-1	def. Shenandoah, 101-75
#28	48	Christopher Newport	7-2	IDLE
#29	34	Drew	7-1	IDLE
#30	33	Whitworth	5-1	def. Belhaven, 90-76
#31	27	UW-Oshkosh	6-2	IDLE
#32	24	Carnegie Mellon	7-1	IDLE
#33	19	Bates	7-0	IDLE
#34	18	Endicott	10-1	def. St. Joseph's (Maine), 99-84; def. Salem State, 90-82
#35	16	Muskingum	8-1	LOST to #12 Mount Union, 82-85
#36	13	UW-Platteville	6-3	won at Carthage, 62-59; LOST at Hope, 74-84
#37	7	Elizabethtown	8-1	won at Shenandoah, 68-65
T#38	6	Concordia (Texas)	6-1	LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor, 82-96
T#38	6	Gustavus Adolphus	8-1	def. St. John's, 95-80
T#40	5	Colby	6-1	IDLE
T#40	5	TCNJ	7-3	won at Rutgers-Camden, 67-36; def. Ramapo, 76-51
T#40	5	Cortland	6-1	IDLE
T#43	4	New York U.	8-1	def. Lancaster Bible, 95-83
T#43	4	Rochester	7-2	IDLE
T#45	1	Williams	6-2	IDLE
T#45	1	UW-Stevens Point	7-1	won at Olivet, 76-63
T#45	1	Wittenberg	7-1	IDLE

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (So Far)

Next poll comes out in January, so this interim report includes a look at upcoming games.

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Trinity (Conn.)	8-0	12/30 vs. Suffolk; 12/31 vs. TBA; 01/03 at Baruch
#2	598	Randolph-Macon	8-0	def. (n) Centre, 84-46; def. (n) Augsburg, 85-49; 12/29 vs. Misericordia; 12/30 vs. TBA; 01/03 vs. Lynchburg
#3	571	UW-La Crosse	8-1	def. (n) Concordia (Wis.), 82-73; LOST to (n) Augustana, 75-82; 12/29 vs. North Central (Minn.); 12/30 vs. TBA; 01/03 vs. UW-River Falls
#4	536	Washington U.	8-1	LOST to #30 Illinois Wesleyan, 76-78; 01/02 at Hope; 01/03 vs. Olivet
#5	507	Mary Washington	10-1	def. N.C. Wesleyan, 75-46; LOST to (n) #14 St. Thomas (Texas), 55-64; def. (n) Schreiner, 85-62; 12/29 vs. Mary Baldwin; 12/30 vs. #12 Virginia Wesleyan; 01/03 at #15 Catholic
#6	467	Chicago	9-1	def. (n) Susquehanna, 87-69; def. (n) #15 Catholic, 76-66; 01/03 vs. Wheaton (Ill.)
#7	440	Emory	7-1	def. (n) #27 Christopher Newport, 98-65; def. (n) T#39 TCNJ, 95-69; 12/29 vs. #29 Bates; 12/30 vs. #16 Hampden-Sydney; 01/03 at Oglethorpe
#8	427	Calvin	7-2	LOST to (n) Augustana, 60-64; def. (n) Concordia (Wis.), 80-71; 12/29 vs. Wilmington; 12/30 at #9 Mount Union
#9	390	Mount Union	11-0	def. Baldwin Wallace, 87-68; def. Ohio Northern, 73-71; 12/29 vs. Mount Aloysius; 12/30 vs. #8 Calvin
#10	380	Montclair State	10-0	won at SUNY-Maritime, 97-84; 12/31 vs. St. Joseph (Conn.); 01/04 vs. Albertus Magnus
#11	335	Redlands	7-1	def. (n) #13 Roanoke, 79-60; won at #16 Hampden-Sydney, 91-90; 12/29 vs. MSOE; 12/30 vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor; 01/03 vs. Pomona-Pitzer
#12	307	Virginia Wesleyan	7-2	LOST at #27 Christopher Newport, 95-97 2OT; 12/30 at #5 Mary Washington; 01/03 vs. Franklin and Marshall
#13	265	Roanoke	6-3	LOST to (n) #11 Redlands, 60-79; def. (n) Wilson, 104-69; 12/29 vs. Husson; 12/30 vs. TBA
#14	262	St. Thomas (Texas)	8-1	def. (n) #5 Mary Washington, 64-55; 12/21 vs. Marietta; 01/03 vs. Colorado College
#15	258	Catholic	8-2	LOST to (n) #6 Chicago, 66-76; def. (n) Illinois Tech, 84-48; 01/03 vs. #5 Mary Washington
#16	224	Hampden-Sydney	6-3	def. Wilson, 86-67; LOST to #11 Redlands, 90-91; 12/29 vs. #25 Maryville (Tenn.); 12/30 at #7 Emory
#17	219	WPI	7-1	12/30 vs. St. Lawrence; 01/03 vs. #21 Tufts
#18	201	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	10-0	def. T#33 Whitworth, 73-62; 12/30 vs. Vassar; 01/03 at Caltech
#19	187	York (Pa.)	8-1	def. Nazareth, 80-78; LOST to Ursinus, 70-80; 12/30 at Penn State-Harrisburg; 01/03 vs. Gettysburg
#20	167	UW-Eau Claire	11-0	def. North Park, 70-66; 01/03 at UW-Stevens Point
#21	130	Tufts	9-2	def. (n) St. Vincent, 66-63; def. (n) Vermont State Lyndon, 117-51; 12/31 vs. Clark; 01/03 at #17 WPI
#22	128	Johns Hopkins	7-2	LOST to (n) Susquehanna, 60-66; def. (n) Illinois Tech, 75-50; 12/31 vs. Babson; 01/03 vs. Stevenson
#23	112	Wesleyan	8-2	12/29 vs. Nichols; 12/30 vs. TBA; 01/04 at Amherst
#24	89	Trinity (Texas)	8-2	def. St. John's, 102-76; 12/21 vs. UW-Stevens Point; 01/03 vs. Southwestern
#25	46	Maryville (Tenn.)	9-2	12/29 vs. #16 Hampden-Sydney; 12/30 vs. #29 Bates; 01/02 at Huntingdon; 01/03 at LaGrange

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	45	Hood	7-1	12/29 at #27 Christopher Newport; 12/30 vs. JWU-Charlotte; 01/03 vs. Misericordia
#27	42	Christopher Newport	9-3	def. #12 Virginia Wesleyan, 97-95 2OT; LOST to (n) #7 Emory, 65-98; def. (n) Denison, 79-73; 12/29 vs. #26 Hood; 12/30 vs. Rochester Tech; 01/02 vs. Rowan; 01/03 at Stockton
#28	35	Endicott	10-1	01/03 vs. Curry
#29	31	Bates	9-0	def. Thomas, 101-53; def. Maine Maritime, 107-59; 12/29 at #7 Emory; 12/30 vs. #25 Maryville (Tenn.); 01/04 vs. T#42 Colby
#30	15	Illinois Wesleyan	7-3	won at #4 Washington U., 78-76; 12/29 at Yeshiva; 12/31 vs. Hamilton; 01/03 vs. Carroll
#31	13	Elizabethtown	9-1	def. Immaculata, 88-71; 01/03 at Ursinus
#32	11	Gustavus Adolphus	9-1	won at Simpson, 71-67; 12/28 vs. Transylvania; 12/29 vs. #36 Cortland; 01/03 vs. Bethel
T#33	10	Whitworth	6-3	LOST at Pomona-Pitzer, 90-95 OT; LOST at #18 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 62-73; won at Chapman, 86-68; 01/02 vs. Willamette; 01/03 vs. Pacific
T#33	10	Drew	8-1	won at Merchant Marine, 85-71; 12/29 vs. Lancaster Bible; 12/30 vs. TBA
#35	9	Muskingum	10-1	won at Allegheny, 93-82; won at Heidelberg, 75-71; 01/02 vs. Olivet; 01/03 at Hope
#36	8	Cortland	6-1	12/28 vs. Dubuque; 12/29 vs. #32 Gustavus Adolphus
T#37	7	Carnegie Mellon	7-2	LOST to Allegheny, 65-72; 12/31 at St. Vincent; 01/03 at Dickinson
T#37	7	UW-Oshkosh	8-2	def. Ripon, 100-74; def. St. Norbert, 88-81; 12/28 vs. Lawrence; 01/03 at UW-Whitewater
T#39	5	NYU	8-1	12/30 vs. John Jay; 01/03 at St. Joseph (Conn.)
T#39	5	TCNJ	8-4	won at Denison, 76-66; LOST to (n) #7 Emory, 69-95
#41	3	Wittenberg	9-1	won at Waynesburg, 80-55; def. Mount St. Joseph, 71-61; 12/30 vs. Asbury; 01/03 vs. Wooster
T#42	1	Colby	7-1	won at Maine Maritime, 84-58; 12/31 at Springfield; 01/01 vs. SUNY Oneonta; 01/04 at #29 Bates
T#42	1	DePauw	9-2	def. Illinois College, 95-78; won at Rose-Hulman, 78-66; 12/30 at Augustana; 01/03 vs. John Carroll

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	621	Trinity (Conn.)	11-0	def. Suffolk, 77-53; def. Albertus Magnus, 92-56; won at Baruch, 97-39
#2	598	Randolph-Macon	11-0	def. (n) Centre, 84-46; def. (n) Augsburg, 85-49; def. Misericordia, 95-36; def. Salisbury, 91-70; def. Lynchburg, 85-60
#3	571	UW-La Crosse	11-1	def. (n) Concordia (Wis.), 82-73; LOST to (n) Augustana, 75-82; def. (n) North Central (Minn.), 101-68; won at St. Norbert, 84-58; def. UW-River Falls, 84-72
#4	536	Washington U.	10-1	LOST to #30 Illinois Wesleyan, 76-78; won at Hope, 72-65; def. (n) Olivet, 94-68
#5	507	Mary Washington	12-1	def. N.C. Wesleyan, 75-46; LOST to (n) #14 St. Thomas (Texas), 55-64; def. (n) Schreiner, 85-62; 12/29 vs. Mary Baldwin postponed; def. #12 Virginia Wesleyan, 89-48; won at #15 Catholic, 76-70
#6	467	Chicago	10-1	def. (n) Susquehanna, 87-69; def. (n) #15 Catholic, 76-66; def. Wheaton (Ill.), 94-73
#7	440	Emory	10-1	def. (n) #27 Christopher Newport, 98-65; def. T#39 TCNJ, 95-69; def. #29 Bates, 104-66; def. #16 Hampden-Sydney, 101-73; won at Oglethorpe, 88-64
#8	427	Calvin	8-3	LOST to (n) Augustana, 60-64; def. (n) Concordia (Wis.), 80-71; def. (n) Wilmington, 87-78; LOST at #9 Mount Union, 72-78
#9	390	Mount Union	13-0	def. Baldwin Wallace, 87-68; def. Ohio Northern, 73-71; def. Mount Aloysius, 107-77; def. #8 Calvin, 78-72
#10	380	Montclair State	12-0	won at SUNY-Maritime, 97-84; def. St. Joseph (Conn.), 92-87; def. Albertus Magnus, 100-89
#11	335	Redlands	9-2	def. (n) #13 Roanoke, 79-60; won at #16 Hampden-Sydney, 91-90; def. (n) MSOE, 102-82; LOST to (n) Mary Hardin-Baylor, 97-104; def. Pomona-Pitzer, 94-77
#12	307	Virginia Wesleyan	7-4	LOST at #27 Christopher Newport, 95-97 2OT; LOST at #5 Mary Washington, 48-89; LOST to Franklin and Marshall, 69-71
#13	265	Roanoke	8-3	LOST to (n) #11 Redlands, 60-79; def. (n) Wilson, 104-69; def. Husson, 91-62; def. Wilkes, 81-54
#14	262	St. Thomas (Texas)	10-1	def. (n) #5 Mary Washington, 64-55; def. Marietta, 73-65; def. Colorado College, 78-62
#15	258	Catholic	8-3	LOST to (n) #6 Chicago, 66-76; def. (n) Illinois Tech, 84-48; LOST to #5 Mary Washington, 70-76
#16	224	Hampden-Sydney	7-4	def. Wilson, 86-67; LOST to #11 Redlands, 90-91; def. (n) #25 Maryville (Tenn.), 63-55; LOST at #7 Emory, 73-101
#17	219	WPI	8-2	def. St. Lawrence, 72-66; LOST to #21 Tufts, 52-70
#18	201	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	12-0	def. T#33 Whitworth, 73-62; def. Vassar, 73-61; won at Caltech, 102-68
#19	187	York (Pa.)	10-1	def. Nazareth, 80-78; LOST to Ursinus, 70-80; won at Penn State-Harrisburg, 56-54; def. Gettysburg, 64-61
#20	167	UW-Eau Claire	11-1	def. North Park, 70-66; LOST at UW-Stevens Point, 75-78
#21	130	Tufts	11-2	def. (n) St. Vincent, 66-63; def. (n) Vermont State Lyndon, 117-51; def. Clark, 79-77; won at #17 WPI, 70-52
#22	128	Johns Hopkins	9-2	LOST to (n) Susquehanna, 60-66; def. (n) Illinois Tech, 75-50; def. Babson, 83-77 OT; def. Stevenson, 90-82
#23	112	Wesleyan	9-4	LOST to (n) Nichols, 83-86 2OT; def. (n) Penn College, 99-44; LOST at Amherst, 45-53
#24	89	Trinity (Texas)	9-3	def. St. John's, 102-76; LOST to UW-Stevens Point, 66-74; def. Southwestern, 94-74
#25	46	Maryville (Tenn.)	11-4	LOST to (n) #16 Hampden-Sydney, 55-63; LOST to (n) #29 Bates, 79-82; won at Huntingdon, 101-86; won at LaGrange, 85-64

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	45	Hood	9-2	LOST at #27 Christopher Newport, 79-96; def. (n) JWU-Charlotte, 101-72; def. Misericordia, 86-55
#27	42	Christopher Newport	13-3	def. #12 Virginia Wesleyan, 97-95 2OT; LOST to (n) #7 Emory, 65-98; def. (n) Denison, 79-73; def. #26 Hood, 96-79; def. Rochester Tech, 68-59; def. (n) Rowan, 64-56; won at Stockton, 77-57
#28	35	Endicott	11-1	def. Curry, 83-66
#29	31	Bates	11-1	def. Thomas, 101-53; def. Maine Maritime, 107-59; LOST at #7 Emory, 66-104; def. (n) #25 Maryville (Tenn.), 82-79; def. T#42 Colby, 90-72
#30	15	Illinois Wesleyan	10-3	won at #4 Washington U., 78-76; won at Yeshiva, 72-71; def. (n) Hamilton, 69-57; def. Carroll, 72-68
#31	13	Elizabethtown	10-1	def. Immaculata, 88-71; won at Ursinus, 95-76
#32	11	Gustavus Adolphus	12-1	won at Simpson, 71-67; def. (n) Transylvania, 60-57; def. (n) #36 Cortland, 58-51; def. Bethel, 97-62
T#33	10	Whitworth	8-3	LOST at Pomona-Pitzer, 90-95 OT; LOST at #18 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 62-73; won at Chapman, 86-68; def. Willamette, 80-67; def. Pacific, 81-79
T#33	10	Drew	9-2	won at Merchant Marine, 85-71; LOST to (n) Lancaster Bible, 80-88; def. (n) CCNY, 113-68
#35	9	Muskingum	11-2	won at Allegheny, 93-82; won at Heidelberg, 75-71; LOST to (n) Olivet, 70-87; won at Hope, 98-93
#36	8	Cortland	6-3	LOST to (n) Dubuque, 63-66; LOST to (n) #32 Gustavus Adolphus, 51-58
T#37	7	Carnegie Mellon	8-3	LOST to Allegheny, 65-72; LOST at St. Vincent, 76-78; won at Dickinson, 70-57
T#37	7	UW-Oshkosh	10-2	def. Ripon, 100-74; def. St. Norbert, 88-81; def. Lawrence, 89-52; won at UW-Whitewater, 90-78
T#39	5	NYU	9-2	def. John Jay, 77-54; LOST at St. Joseph (Conn.), 71-73
T#39	5	TCNJ	8-4	won at Denison, 76-66; LOST at #7 Emory, 69-95
#41	3	Wittenberg	10-2	won at Waynesburg, 80-55; def. Mount St. Joseph, 71-61; LOST to Asbury, 57-59; def. Wooster, 78-53
T#42	1	Colby	9-2	won at Maine Maritime, 84-58; won at Springfield, 81-67; def. (n) SUNY Oneonta, 79-68; LOST at #29 Bates, 72-90
T#42	1	DePauw	10-3	def. Illinois College, 95-78; won at Rose-Hulman, 78-66; won at Augustana, 95-85 OT; LOST to John Carroll, 83-93

[D3BBALL]

1 Voter must really not like Trinity. Preseason the person voted TC either 1 or 2, 1st week person voted them anywhere from 1st to 8th, 2nd week voted them 1st or 2nd, 3rd week 5th and now week 4 the person voted them 9th.

9th in the country, seriously!

Randolph and Trinity have 1 like opponent, Yeshiva. Randolph beat Yeshiva 92-57 (35 points) at Randolph and Yeshiva was missing their starting point guard. Trinity beat Yeshiva at Yeshiva 76-52 (24 points) and Yeshiva had their starting point guard. Both RM and Trinity are either 1 or 2 in defensive and offensive efficiency ratings. Both have had 1 close game, both on the road. Massey has them 1 or 2, D3Datacast efficiency has them 1 or 2, D3Datacast NPI has them 1 or 2.

Both are undefeated, only real difference is SOS RM 120, TC 257. RM has played 7 teams with a SOS under 150, 6 teams under 100 and 3 teams under 50. Trinity has played 4 teams under 150, 3 teams under 100 and 3 teams under 50.
I can see anyone putting RN #1, and TC #2, but putting TC number #9 lacks any common sense.

I have always thought that the people voting in any sport need to show their votes. I know a number do and are not afraid to take flack for it, all should do it.

[Gregory Sager]

1 Voter must really not like Trinity. Preseason the person voted TC either 1 or 2, 1st week person voted them anywhere from 1st to 8th, 2nd week voted them 1st or 2nd, 3rd week 5th and now week 4 the person voted them 9th.

9th in the country, seriously!

[snip]

I have always thought that the people voting in any sport need to show their votes. I know a number do and are not afraid to take flack for it, all should do it.

The voter who slotted Trinity (CT) ninth in the current iteration of the D3hoops.com Top 25 did indeed post his ballot on X. In fact, another voter challenged him on it on X, and a brief debate ensued.

[D3BBALL]

1 Voter must really not like Trinity. Preseason the person voted TC either 1 or 2, 1st week person voted them anywhere from 1st to 8th, 2nd week voted them 1st or 2nd, 3rd week 5th and now week 4 the person voted them 9th.

9th in the country, seriously!

[snip]

I have always thought that the people voting in any sport need to show their votes. I know a number do and are not afraid to take flack for it, all should do it.

The voter who slotted Trinity (CT) ninth in the current iteration of the D3hoops.com Top 25 did indeed post his ballot on X. In fact, another voter challenged him on it on X, and a brief debate ensued.

Great do you have a link, would love to know how they went from 5th to 9th and didn't lose a game.

I found the thread and the person, Jay Murray, who bases his ballot on a points system and claims it "preserves objectivity". pretty ridiculous if you ask me:
+3 points for ranked/RV wins
+1 for unranked wins
-1 for ranked/rv losses
-3 for unranked losses.

As Ryan Scott said in the back and forth "I wouldn't want objectivity in a human poll. I want subjectivity" And we have Massey, D3 Datacast and others to give us rankings based on objectivity using different factors/stats except an eye test. Should we then just have all 25 voters use their own "system" to just make up the ballots. Takes all subjectivity out of the equation, which I would bet that 99.99 percent of voters in any sport do. 24 voters have Trinity #1, all the rest of the rankings have them 1 or 2. They have the entire team back except for 2 players, they have their top 5 scorers back from last year, 2 of the best defenders in the country back, they are blowing out (36 points per game) every team except one and not 1 starter averages 24 minutes a game. BTW they won the national championship last year. As stated previously to have them at #2 or maybe #3 I get, but when your systems takes a team from 5th to 9th and doesn't come close to losing games, doesn't make sense.
I have watched a lot of games this year and anyone in top 50 can beat anyone on a given day, but with the exception of RM and Emory, not sure anyone beats Trinity if Trinity plays/is on their game. Trinity has played the 12th, 20th and 27th SOS teams in the country. RM has played the 8th, 27th, 32nd, 54th. That is pretty even. Any team over 150 doesn't really matter for teams like RM, or Trinity, as they are going to win 99% of those games, mostly likely in blowouts. This is where subjectivity matters.