FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[dirtybirds8-0]

Is there a reason why my Karma rating is -3?  I am not being funny...I just dont understand?  Have my posts been that rude....ok...maybe a -1 would be more reasonable.

The last two posts were very insightful...it is clear that whenever a good team becomes great, there has to be a reason why they are soooo good.  I mean, USC must be recruiting kids that cant spell their names...and must eat raw meat while doing dumbell curls.  I cant understand why they have won 25 straight at the highest level of competition.....there's no way it could be great coaching?  Could it?  We better call them cheaters, theres no other way according to some people, that they could be that good.

[Garnet]

Bant551,

Did you go back and edit out your comments regarding Farley? 
When I read them, I was wondering how his comment on your choice made you feel about him personally and as a coach.
I ask because  some of the RPI guys say that the Union coach told them the same thing when they informed him of their decision.

[bant551]

I'm willing to go even a step further and say that those great Williams teams won games moreso because of the quality of players they had, as opposed to being based on great coaching.

While it is my understanding that the coaches there had good football minds, for all the years Trinity was getting beaten down by Williams (my entire four years at Trinity), Williams seemed to have far superior athletes.  Maybe my senior year we got a little closer but ended up self-destructing early in the game, and it got out of control by the end.  Combine the athletes they had with sound coaching, and they beat us badly every time.

So now that  TRINITY has a great coach and athletes that are better than WILLIAMS, WE are the ones who have no academic standards and are breaking the rules.  Funny how that works.  When my Trinity teams were being manhandled by Williams, I didn't sit there after the game and pout about Williams' ability to put better athletes on the field.  It was tough dealing with a 2nd-game beat-down every year and moving forward afterwards.  My senior year was the only time we were able to put a good season together after losing to Williams.  It sucks trying to go out and compete knowing that you probably blew your chance at even sharing the title.  But we ended up tying at 7-1 when Amherst beat Williams the last game of the year.  But now that Trinity is on top of the league, they are being accused of impropriety.  Losing with class (i.e., "They beat us because they were better than us") is much harder than blaming the winner.

[bant551]

Hey, I edited some of those posts because, as someone pointed out earlier, its impossible to verify them.  I had a negative experience with him, but I know that alot of people respect him, etc.  I was just trying to give an example of how Williams bends their academic standards drastically to get people in as well.  People don't have to believe that if they don't want to.  But he was going to get me in with an academic credentials that were far below their norm.  By a longshot.  My bad experience with him came after I told him I was going to Trinity instead of Williams. 

Edit to answer Union's question:

I ended up being very happy with my decision to go to Trinity, so of course elitist comments like "Biggest mistake of your life" about your college where you enjoyed four years of your life and that helped alot with life after college are pretty egregious in hindsight.

[Garnet]

Sounds like the same thing some of the RPI guys experienced with the Union coach.
I wonder how many coaches pull that move.  Pump a kid up. Try to get him to attend your school. Dump all over his decision if he chooses another school.
I never had it happen to me so I am curious how often it happens.

[Trin9-0]

It has to be difficult for any coach who has spent months making calls, investing time and effort in order to narrow literally thousands of possible candidates to hear a recruit tell him "thanks but no thanks". I had experiences where coaches were friendly and seemed to be genuinely honest when they wished you good luck. However, there were others who would not only question your decisions and motives but also leave you with a feeling that they wouldn't have given a damn about you even if you had attended their school. The latter tend to get a poor reputation and their ability to recruit eventually begins to suffer.

One of the reasons Trinity gets as many transfers as they do is because athletes who do chose other schools and are ultimately not happy there remember the positive experience they had being recruited by Priore and his staff.

The fact is that all the student athletes at NESCAC schools, and schools like Union and RPI are getting a great education and are gaining valuabe networking connections. I don't think we should be focusing as much on the high school academic record of recruits, but rather look at how the student athletes have performed once they're admitted to their respective school, or furthermore how they have succeeded professionally and contributed to to the betterment of society.

Should a test score that a Trinity football alum took when he was 17 overshadow the fact that he graduated from one of the nations top colleges and now holds a great job?

[dirtybirds8-0]

Agreed....just to back up the last post.  I coached at my old highschool last fall, and we had a lineman who was "6'4" 320lbs and  a Division 1-A athlete...he is currently at West Virginia redshirting.  When he was deciding on schools, I told him to get in touch with the P.A. recruiter for Trinity (a good friend and coach) although he never really had his mind set on D3, let alone NESCAC, after he decided on West Virginia he told me that if things did not work out he would call Coach Priore based on the support and genuine care that they showed during the recruiting process.  He was thourouhly impressed by the coaches, school, and level of play...obviously he is a good enough athelete to play 1-A but that is a great example of Trinitys sucess.  In addittion, this player was an "A" student....

[formerbant10]

I love how everyone is portraying the entire Trinity team to be idiots.  There are idiots on every team, even the Ivy League admits players who are not academically sound....trust me I know.  So while Trinity may be able to dip a little lower than some of the other NESCAC schools, they can't do it for every player.  And every school does it for some players.  Just relax and watch the kids play.

[frank uible]

Trinity's opponents can, at their option, choose to compete or not to compete with Trinity. But at any rate they should shut up and quit whining.

[Jonny Utah]

ok, Im going to bring up an old subject again, but you guys are all right about people whining about trinity winning but again, there were people whining about many other nescac sports in the past, there was just no d3football.com to hear it on...

Williams and Middlebury hockey, (and Union hockey before them) have always been topics of discussion regarding recruiting policies...at one point I think something like 25 or 50 percent of transfer students at Williams College played mens hockey and mens basketball...and its this transfer issue that more people have a problem with trinity than the admission practices.  Many nescac people feel that the true college experience is four years at a school...they dont want to see a kid go to UNH, ride the bench for two years and then go to trinity to finish up and star in football for 2 years.....

And youll see most schools around the country require a certain amount of credits at that school in order to graduate.  That dissuades transfer students comming for two years and getting a degree....one semester maybe but not a year or two, and youll see the best schools in the country have the lowest transfer rates.....

ok, you might say "hey this is america, who cares if you transfer, you have the right to make your own decisions, you have the right to go to whatever school you want...etc"   this is all true and I actually believe it but the nescac higherups often do not.  They dont want 50 percent of school transfers being on two mens athletic teams.

[frank uible]

jonny: As you know, that is what I say. But also this is America, and the administrators of the NESCAC colleges can run their schools as they damn well please, all without consulting me. What a bunch of morons!

[Trin9-0]

It seems to me that this really should be a very simple issue:

Trinity can decide which student athletes it accepts. These maybe transfers, post-grads or those who may be slightly below the college's academic average. We have already established that EVERY admissions department in the COUNTRY in every division, make exceptions in order create a well ballanced student body and to help their athletic programs be as competitive as they can be. The other NESCAC schools can decide wether or not to schedule Trinity.

But again the bottom line is that no rules have been broken. So all that is left for opposing NESCAC alumni and administration to do is what they have been doing... whining and pouting about it like a bunch of children who lose at checkers and accuse the winners of cheating.

[speedy]

. .. . But again the bottom line is that no rules have been broken. So all that is left for opposing NESCAC alumni and administration to do is what they have been doing... whining and pouting about it like a bunch of children who lose at checkers and accuse the winners of cheating.

No, the NESCAC will do more than "whine and pout." They will change the rules to rein in Trinity just as they in a few years ago with regard  to Williams and Amherst. And my guess is that the NESCAC will start by clamping down on the use of transfers. That's an easy one as it will have little to no effect on the other NESCAC schools.

[formerbant10]

The NESCAC has already started to clamp down on all athletics.  The lowered the number of athletes teams can get in that are below the standard.  This was implemented last year.  As for the transfer rules, how can the Conference regulate that.  Do the transfers put on their application that they are going to play football or basketball or hockey.  Wouldn't teams be able to treat them as "walk-ons" and should there really be this issue in DIII.  If the students are paying to go to a school, they should get the privilige of donning the uniform of that school.  Its an honor that not everyone gets.

[speedy]

.  . As for the transfer rules, how can the Conference regulate that.  Do the transfers put on their application that they are going to play football or basketball or hockey.  Wouldn't teams be able to treat them as "walk-ons" and should there really be this issue in DIII.  If the students are paying to go to a school, they should get the privilige of donning the uniform of that school.  Its an honor that not everyone gets.

Easy -- require that all transfers meet the regular admissions standards and maybe even deny transfers eligbility or require that they wait a year as is done in D1. Believe you me, if the transfers are perceived as a problem (and the fact that Trinity's QB and its top running back are D1 transfers makes that almost a certainty), NESCAC will regulate and stop the practice in order to restore balance to the league. Transfers are an easy target as it rarely happens at most of the other NESCAC schools.