FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[VoodooDoc]

Wabash and DePauw will play the 131st Monon Bell Game this fall.  There is no other rivalry game in Division 3 that matches the intensity of this game.  However when the two schools play for a spot in the Division 3 playoffs going to the winner, the intensity of the game increases exponentially.  Jumpshot, until you have experienced what the playoffs add to a rivalry game, you can not understand the difference.  Young men start play playing organized football as early as second or third grade.  Notwithstanding rivalry games, conference championships, state championships, every player in their heart of hearts wants to play for a national championship.  It is something they take with them for the rest of their lives.  During playoff weeks, football players are absolutely focused on being prepared both on the field and in the classroom. Since earning a return to the playoffs in 2002, the unforeseen consequences for the Little Giant football players has been nothing but positive.

[Pat Coleman]

Not so fast ... my view is that Williams should not have voted (if they did) for post-season football.The Ephs already end with a meaningful rivalry game, the season is of sufficient duration, the academic schedule in November is intense, vast differences exist in NESCAC regarding football admissions, emerging potential financial pressures, etc. In short, often "less is more." Perhaps the risk of being the odd person out (relative to Ivy League, others) outweighed the merit of defending a proven balance. Lots of possible unforeseen consequences ... stay tuned to assess the true value.   

It hasn't hurt Wabash or DePauw's rivalry. It hasn't hurt Cortland or Ithaca's rivalry. I bet you'll be OK.

[The Third Division]

So i did little research. The conference was formed in 1971, it had football teams but it operated sort of like glorified club football? (a game between amherst and williams in 1989 drew 13.6k fans). This ended in 1993 I believe?

Conference championships didn't start until 2000 and a full round robin didn't happen until 2017.

I am predicting the nescac football players association fights for 1 OOC game next calendar year.

[MapleBBQChicken]

the academic schedule in November is intense 

This is always the part of the anti-playoffs argument that bothers me the most. Here is a list of the sports where NESCAC teams competed in late November (Nov. 16-30):

• Men's soccer
• Women's soccer
• Volleyball
• Field hockey
• Men's cross country
• Women's cross country
• Men's basketball
• Women's basketball
• Men's ice hockey
• Women's ice hockey
• Men's squash
• Women's squash
• Men's swimming and diving
• Women's swimming and diving

NESCAC student-athletes have proven time and again that they can balance school and sports. Why is the academic workload in late November and early December manageable for these 14 NESCAC sports but wouldn't be for football players? This decision was long overdue and a great win for NESCAC football.

[The Third Division]

I think its also worth noting that no one is forcing anyone to do college and sports. Many students just focus on academics.

[ItsATuftSituation]

I'm so glad that the NESCAC teams will be able to compete for a national title, you've got to think it will help recruiting and maybe take some recruits from schools like Hopkins, Carnegie-Mellon and some Centennials along with Patriot and Ivies.

I'm thrilled with the decision, but a small part of me is sad that the tradition of the NESCAC title being the ultimate prize in football is now gone.

[RedAndBlack]

The ultimate prize will still be a NESCAC championship. Without an OOC game, the chances the NESCAC sends multiple teams to the playoffs will be slim. Unless the AQ can go win some games in the playoffs in the first few years, the NESCAC will be sending its champion every year and maybe the runner up every so often... This talk of the NESCAC Championship or rivalry games like Amherst/Williams not mattering anymore is crazy.

[Pat Coleman]

The ultimate prize will still be a NESCAC championship. Without an OOC game, the chances the NESCAC sends multiple teams to the playoffs will be slim. Unless the AQ can go win some games in the playoffs in the first few years, the NESCAC will be sending its champion every year and maybe the runner up every so often... This talk of the NESCAC Championship or rivalry games like Amherst/Williams not mattering anymore is crazy.

It's actually not slim. The Presidents' Athletic Conference had no OOC games the past two years and last year got two at-large teams in the playoffs.

It's all math -- a conference winner's previous playoff experience has no bearing whatsoever on how the playoff teams are selected.

[IC798891]

I'm so glad that the NESCAC teams will be able to compete for a national title, you've got to think it will help recruiting and maybe take some recruits from schools like Hopkins, Carnegie-Mellon and some Centennials along with Patriot and Ivies.

I'm thrilled with the decision, but a small part of me is sad that the tradition of the NESCAC title being the ultimate prize in football is now gone.

That is unlikely to change. Look, coaches and players know what they're supposed to say. They're often hardwired to answer questions about competing for a national title the way all competitors are.

But D3, as a philosophy, prioritizes "a primary emphasis on conference and regional competition, while providing access to national championships." That's a guiding principle that is going to continue to flow down if that's what your institution prioritizes

[nescac1]

Lots of good Thomas Perry content heading into draft day:

https://steelersdepot.com/2025/04/interview-middlebury-ol-thomas-perry-aims-to-make-history/

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/scouts-saying-thomas-perry-middlebury-080206754.html

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2025/story/_/id/44571937/2025-nfl-draft-risers-prospects-membou-zabel-bech

[jumpshot]

Hey nescac1, what is your view regarding NESCAC football teams shortly allowed to participate in NCAA post-season tournament?

[nescac1]

jumpshot, I'm pro participation!  It's worked well in virtually every other sport imaginable, so why not football?  And it will be be fun to see how the best of NESCAC stacks up nationally.  I don't think it will lower the stakes for rivalry games like Williams-Amherst - after all, it's been a long time since NESCAC titles were being decided by Williams-Amherst games, and while added stakes adds a bit more juice, those games have still felt huge for all the players and fans involved. 

In the meantime, 2025, the last year without playoffs, feels like the most difficult-to handicap year in NESCAC in some time.  Bates seems to be on the rise (though probably still another year away from being a real contender for a top-three spot) and the top of the league - Trinity, Wesleyan, Tufts and Middlebury - all suffer huge losses, in each case losing some truly all-time-great players.  Trinity I think goes into next year as the default favorite, but I think it should be a really fun year with such a massive amount of turnover throughout the league.  I'd love to see Williams back in the mix for a top spot in the league, they were one play away from pulling out several of those games against the front-runners, but the Ephs need to figure out the QB position to do so. 

[HansenRatings]

The ultimate prize will still be a NESCAC championship. Without an OOC game, the chances the NESCAC sends multiple teams to the playoffs will be slim. Unless the AQ can go win some games in the playoffs in the first few years, the NESCAC will be sending its champion every year and maybe the runner up every so often... This talk of the NESCAC Championship or rivalry games like Amherst/Williams not mattering anymore is crazy.

It's actually not slim. The Presidents' Athletic Conference had no OOC games the past two years and last year got two at-large teams in the playoffs.

It's all math -- a conference winner's previous playoff experience has no bearing whatsoever on how the playoff teams are selected.

And since it's all math, there's basically no guesswork involved: if a NESCAC team finishes the season with 1 loss, they're practically guaranteed a spot in the field, and a second loss (barring earning the AQ w/ 2 losses) effectively eliminates a team from the playoffs.

Every 1 loss team would have been comfortably above the bubble in each of the last 6 seasons, and every 2 loss team about a dozen spots below the bubble. With the closed regular season schedule, an undefeated season isn't going to be enough for a 1 seed, but a 2 seed (top 8 overall, which guarantees HFA for 2 rounds) is possible, and a 3 seed is most likely.

[lumbercat]

Fantastic to see the playoff approval for NESCAC teams.

However, at this point I wouldn't give any NESCAC program even a plausible chance of winning a national title. Numerous additional upgrades and systemic changes will have to me made in NESACAC programs for the conference to be truly competitive with the D3 juggernauts. I don't believe we will ever see those changes in the NESACAC....but that doesn't mean it's not a monumental, great step for the league.

Going forward I think we'll see some NESCAC teams making some fine playoff showings that may surprise many and that will be great to see. At the end of the day I also believe many will see that there is some D3 football being played elsewhere at a significantly higher level. At that point I think a NESCAC playoff berth will begin to be viewed as more of a reward, like a traditional Bowl Game opportunity, as opposed a true path to a National Championship.

I don't think think this change diminishes the importance and intensity of the traditional NESCAC rivalries as teams continue to compete hard for the NESCAC title which now brings a great new added reward for the NESCAC champs.

[nescac1]

I don't think contending for a championship needs to be something NESCAC even thinks about for the post-season to be a worthwhile endeavor, and I don't think there is going to be any pressure on NESCAC schools to get beyond the first few rounds, which I think will happen now and again before they hit one of the true powerhouses. 

After all, in D3 football, all but a tiny handful of D3 programs have no prayer of being remotely competitive for a championship.  Since 2005, of programs that are still in D3, Mount Union, Whitewater, North Central and Mary Hardin have accounted for all but TWO title game appearances (Oshkosh and Cortland have one appearance each).  It's basically the same (slowly evolving over time) four teams at the top (at most) who come within sniffing range of a title and no one else - including no team from New England, period - has a prayer.  It's a completely stratified sport with a small handful of juggernauts each year and everyone else.  Compare that to hoops - since 2013, a different team has won the title every season, and only one team has been runner-up twice. probably 20 teams go into each season thinking they have a legitimate shot at a title, and usually there are 10-12 teams heading into the tourney who are legit title contenders - not so much in football.