FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[CarollFan]

As a newbie to understanding the NCAA playoff formula/format am I correct that they don't actually take into account what happens in the games?? For example:

• Wesleyan trailed Hamilton nearly the entire game yet ultimately won by four points after scoring with :14 left.
• Trinity led Hamilton 31-6 at halftime and coasted to a 37-6 win.

Yet, Wesleyan actually gets the higher net NPI score because their win over Hamilton was on the road? I find that to be astonishingly bad process even for an organization like the NCAA.

Spare me all of the "just win it on the field" rhetoric. Obviously, winning every game and getting the conference AQ bid guarantees you a spot in the field. I merely used this example to illustrate the absurdity of not factoring what happens on the field outside of win/loss, home/away.

Yes after a season using NPI you'll be able to see how these wins are calculated and you'll see multiple concerns people have brought up. There have been some changes recommended on different podcasts but last I heard is they currently are not planning any changes.

In their document describing NPI they mentioned they wanted to award road wins but by increasing the NPI for road wins by 10% and decreasing the NPI for home wins by 10% your going see some head scratching results when comparing the NPI generated for different games. Also people have recommended using more of your opponents NPI. Currently only 60% of the opponents NPI is used.

But a win is a win, how you got there doesn't matter, winning by 50 no different then winning by 1.

[Nescacman]

As a newbie to understanding the NCAA playoff formula/format am I correct that they don't actually take into account what happens in the games?? For example:

• Wesleyan trailed Hamilton nearly the entire game yet ultimately won by four points after scoring with :14 left.
• Trinity led Hamilton 31-6 at halftime and coasted to a 37-6 win.

Yet, Wesleyan actually gets the higher net NPI score because their win over Hamilton was on the road? I find that to be astonishingly bad process even for an organization like the NCAA.

Spare me all of the "just win it on the field" rhetoric. Obviously, winning every game and getting the conference AQ bid guarantees you a spot in the field. I merely used this example to illustrate the absurdity of not factoring what happens on the field outside of win/loss, home/away.

Yes after a season using NPI you'll be able to see how these wins are calculated and you'll see multiple concerns people have brought up. There have been some changes recommended on different podcasts but last I heard is they currently are not planning any changes.

In their document describing NPI they mentioned they wanted to award road wins but by increasing the NPI for road wins by 10% and decreasing the NPI for home wins by 10% your going see some head scratching results when comparing the NPI generated for different games. Also people have recommended using more of your opponents NPI. Currently only 60% of the opponents NPI is used.

But a win is a win, how you got there doesn't matter, winning by 50 no different then winning by 1.

Having had some experience with NPI in other sports, what you don't want is a system where you encourage schools to run up the score unnecessarily to improve their NPI. I'm sure that was the rationale for how the NPI is currently calculated. Of course, there are ways to address this. For example, you could cap the margin of victory factor at say 10 or 14 points.

We're sure the NCAA "powers that be" could care less what the NESCAC smart asses think about their system anyway.

[SpringSt7]

This will not be a super popular take but I find it silly that there could be 2 or more NESCAC teams in the field in the first year of eligibility. Like, are Trinity and Wesleyan two of the best however many teams in the country? Yeah they probably are. They would probably both go in and acquit themselves perfectly fine and not embarass themselves. But it does seem a little crazy to me that a team from this league could play zero/0/not a single nonconference game, not win the league, and still make the postseason when we have no empirical data to support how the NESCAC would fare against the rest of the country.

[CarollFan]

This will not be a super popular take but I find it silly that there could be 2 or more NESCAC teams in the field in the first year of eligibility. Like, are Trinity and Wesleyan two of the best however many teams in the country? Yeah they probably are. They would probably both go in and acquit themselves perfectly fine and not embarass themselves. But it does seem a little crazy to me that a team from this league could play zero/0/not a single nonconference game, not win the league, and still make the postseason when we have no empirical data to support how the NESCAC would fare against the rest of the country.

As an outsider I'll just say one thing on this. Don't assume the teams in the playoffs are all the best in the country. Some conference winners would get absolutely destroyed by some teams that don't make the playoffs.

[SpringSt7]

I wrote "they would probably both go in and acquit themselves perfectly fine and not embarass themselves". Most of us know how the NCAA tournaments work, plenty of teams that don't make it would throttle some conferences winners. That is not what I'm saying

[Patrick Coleman]

This will not be a super popular take but I find it silly that there could be 2 or more NESCAC teams in the field in the first year of eligibility. Like, are Trinity and Wesleyan two of the best however many teams in the country? Yeah they probably are. They would probably both go in and acquit themselves perfectly fine and not embarass themselves. But it does seem a little crazy to me that a team from this league could play zero/0/not a single nonconference game, not win the league, and still make the postseason when we have no empirical data to support how the NESCAC would fare against the rest of the country.

As an outsider I'll just say one thing on this. Don't assume the teams in the playoffs are all the best in the country. Some conference winners would get absolutely destroyed by some teams that don't make the playoffs.

Most of these NESCAC fans follow other Division III sports and should be well aware of this already from 20-plus years of the current playoff system.

[CarollFan]

This will not be a super popular take but I find it silly that there could be 2 or more NESCAC teams in the field in the first year of eligibility. Like, are Trinity and Wesleyan two of the best however many teams in the country? Yeah they probably are. They would probably both go in and acquit themselves perfectly fine and not embarass themselves. But it does seem a little crazy to me that a team from this league could play zero/0/not a single nonconference game, not win the league, and still make the postseason when we have no empirical data to support how the NESCAC would fare against the rest of the country.

As an outsider I'll just say one thing on this. Don't assume the teams in the playoffs are all the best in the country. Some conference winners would get absolutely destroyed by some teams that don't make the playoffs.

Most of these NESCAC fans follow other Division III sports and should be well aware of this already from 20-plus years of the current playoff system.

I got it. I misunderstood, "2 of the best however many teams in country". I was just like hey those other teams in the playoffs are not all part of the best.

I understand what he saying about no empirical data too.

[Nescacman]

So breaking news out of Waterville...Coach Cosgrove is stepping down immediately. No word yet on a replacement. Obviously, we wish him and his family the best. Totally a class act.

More to follow.

[JEFFFAN]

The record is clear that the NESCAC acquits itself very, very well in both men's and women's sports at the NCAA playoff level.   Name a sport and the NESCAC has likely won a title, had several teams in the Final Four or Final Eight, or otherwise outperformed most other conferences.   However, I do not see that happening at the outset for football or maybe ever.   The numbers game plays against the NESCAC on a national level in a sport that requires so many bodies.   I am going to be fascinated to see how our teams do, however, and am excited that the powers-that-be saw fit to venture down the playoff road in football!

[lumbercat]

So breaking news out of Waterville...Coach Cosgrove is stepping down immediately. No word yet on a replacement. Obviously, we wish him and his family the best. Totally a class act.

More to follow.

Oh no, sad to see. Cosgrove was a friend and HS rival in the Ma class of '74. He'll put his family first as always--the same way he always treated his players. Let's hope for the best for Coach and his family.

[Nescacman]

So breaking news out of Waterville...Coach Cosgrove is stepping down immediately. No word yet on a replacement. Obviously, we wish him and his family the best. Totally a class act.

More to follow.

Oh no, sad to see. Cosgrove was a friend and HS rival in the Ma class of '74. He'll put his family first as always--the same way he always treated his players. Let's hope for the best for Coach and his family.

Agree completely Lumber. Wishing the best for Coach and his family.

[Scoops]

Truly unfortunate news. I had the pleasure to meet Coach during the recruiting process. He is a genuinely good man, and I was very appreciative of the way he treated us. I hope that it's not a serious issue. He's done a great job with his program.

On the subject of coach movement, has anybody gotten a confirmation on the issues surrounding Bowdoin HC Hammer? I've heard some fairly troubling chatter that I am not comfortable repeating until it's confirmed as the reason for his absence...

So breaking news out of Waterville...Coach Cosgrove is stepping down immediately. No word yet on a replacement. Obviously, we wish him and his family the best. Totally a class act.

More to follow.