FB: New England Small College Athletic Conference

[Nescacman]

His defense did only give up to 83 to Endicott last week.

227th in the country giving up an average of nearly 44 per game. Would certainly flip the script in Brunswick.

[lumbercat]

I get all the stuff about Heltons misfortunes as a head coach but how many times can we rip a guy when he's down.
I'll admit to being hypersensitive and bias on the subject. I had a couple of close personal interactions with the guy and all should know he is unquestionably a first class human being. His integrity and character are totally intact.
I know what the W-L record says but in observing the way he comported himself in a  situation that transcended X's and O's I observed a great person with truly Elite character.

[Nescacman]

I get all the stuff about Heltons misfortunes as a head coach but how many times can we rip a guy when he's down.
I'll admit to being hypersensitive and bias on the subject. I had a couple of close personal interactions with the guy and all should know he is unquestionably a first class human being. His integrity and character are totally intact.
I know what the W-L record says but in observing the way he comported himself in a  situation that transcended X's and O's I observed a great person with truly Elite character.

Lumber, We're just having a little fun at Kelton's expense. There are reasons for it, btw. We can discuss off-line.

As far as his character is concerned, we personally interacted with him several times and found him to be aloof and unengaged. We were not impressed. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, we suppose. We'll move on.

However, in all seriousness, we would not be at all surprised if he threw his name into the hat along with several others that we are already aware of. Despite a challenging spot, the Bowdoin Administration will have a good group to pick from.

Time to move on to some real football news at this point. 2 weeks left and lots to play for.

NM

[lumbercat]

NM-

Wow-2 sides to every story I guess. I have the utmost respect for the guy, but that's my experience. Was he aloof and unengaged before or after you started ripping him?
Either way, I respect your side of the story. I agree in moving on.

He probably will apply for Polar job- I would welcome him on my staff but he won't get any consideration for a HCOF position.

The speculation begins on candidates so I'll start the dialog for openings at Bowdoin and most likely Colby....


Mike Horan DC Marist
Malik Grove OC Amherst
Ron DiGravio DC Central Connecticut
Eric Ludwig Wesleyan
Greg Debeljac HCOF CWRU
Dave Dunn HCOF Christopher Columbus HS Miami,Fl
Shea Dwyer OC Hamilton
Max Beale OC Hampden Sydney
Jeff Comissiong Lehigh DL

[jumpshot]

Well said, Lumbercat. Many of us have felt for some time that nescacman's personal attacks on another person using the power of the pen while hiding out of sight on a posting board says more about the attacker than the individual target. I have known the target and his family well for many years. Such prolonged unkindness and anger lacks respect for human dignity. Totally out-of-bounds ...way beyond having a little fun, bordering on bullying which none of us like. 

[Nescacman]

Well said, Lumbercat. Many of us have felt for some time that nescacman's personal attacks on another person using the power of the pen while hiding out of sight on a posting board says more about the attacker than the individual target. I have known the target and his family well for many years. Such prolonged unkindness and anger lacks respect for human dignity. Totally out-of-bounds ...way beyond having a little fun, bordering on bullying which none of us like. 

We take (great) offense to this comment. First off, our "attacks" have never been personal. We have criticized the HCOF's professional performance, which, needless to say, speaks for itself. Second, we are pretty much the only person on this Board, other than our esteemed leader, Patrick, who is well known by name and might be one of the more visible individuals in the entire league. "Hiding out of site on a posting board", hardly. We are readily accessible in person 9 weeks a year at any Wesleyan home and away game (and other NESCAC games as well) as well as by email via the 9 Weeks NESCAC Podcast platform, and by IM here on the message board. For the record, many of you know us by name, have our personal contact info (email and cell phone), and regularly communicate with us directly. Lastly, calling this situation "bullying" is just false. The definition of bullying includes causing emotional and physical harm to someone and is as a result of a power imbalance situation. We have a hard time believing that our comments about the HCOF have either caused him harm or were a result of a power imbalance situation. Our opinion...we think people need to get thicker skin and stop being so soft. It's meant as satire, which you may not find funny or entertaining, but some of our fellow boardsters certainly do. It's why we wear "Shorter University" hats at every Wesleyan/Williams game. If you don't get the joke, look it up. One last comment, based on our perception of your very low bar regarding "bullying"...are the comments on the boards about the Bowdoin situation (take your pick....the coaching situation or their offense) or Hs7-2 showing the Hartford State punt coverage video also bullying?!? Just remember, being honest isn't being mean.

NM   

[Nescacman]

The speculation begins on candidates so I'll start the dialog for openings at Bowdoin and most likely Colby....


Mike Horan DC Marist
Malik Grove OC Amherst
Ron DiGravio DC Central Connecticut
Eric Ludwig Wesleyan
Greg Debeljac HCOF CWRU
Dave Dunn HCOF Christopher Columbus HS Miami,Fl
Shea Dwyer OC Hamilton
Max Beale OC Hampden Sydney
Jeff Comissiong Lehigh DL

Good list and we know several of these guys personally (we think they would make great HCOFs in the NESCAC, btw). At least 3 have strong Wesleyan/NESCAC connections: Dwyer, Ludwig, and Max Beal (no "E" on the end; we played with Max's Dad, Rich, at Wes. His Dad was a longtime coordinator in the NESCAC and was HCOF at Stonehill). A couple of other names that we would add to your list: Adam Chiccoine (Wes DC) and Quentin Jones (Dartmouth DL). We're sure the current Interim HCOF (Nick Turchyn-Former Gettysburg OC) will also be in the mix for the Polars job and maybe the DC McAllister, if they don't completely clean house.

If we were giving friendly advice to any of these guys, as a casual observer of the NESCAC and amateur NESCAC historian, I would tell these guys not to touch the Bowdoin situation with a ten-foot pole. Wait for another NESCAC HCOF position to open up and jump at that. We said many weeks ago that there will be two HCOF openings available for the 2027 season and we still beleive that to be the case. We all know about Bowdoin. We won't comment yet on the second one.

NM

[JEFFFAN]

Realistically, are any of the BBC and Hamilton head football coaching jobs attractive?  They are all outstanding schools but their history in football is so miserable that it seems like taking one of those jobs would at best be a stepping stone job to another NESCAC or Centennial Conference head coaching job.   Again - they are terrific schools in every way other than fertile ground to build a football program.

[ccd494]

nescacman & ccd494, ... we all understand your opinion of Aaron Kelton ... please tell about the prolonged anger ....

I have no idea about Kelton's history with Bowdoin or the NESCAC.  Of the Maine D3 teams, I follow Husson a whole lot more closely than anything else, so I've been watching the ongoing struggles at Maine Maritime very closely.  I was shocked to see ANYONE on the MMA staff suggested for a NESCAC job.  Hence my comment.

Whatever nescacman's beef is with Kelton, leave me out of it.  I'd just seen MMA's defense play.

[bearsalum]

 If we were giving friendly advice to any of these guys, as a casual observer of the NESCAC and amateur NESCAC historian, I would tell these guys not to touch the Bowdoin situation with a ten-foot pole. Wait for another NESCAC HCOF position to open up and jump at that. We said many weeks ago that there will be two HCOF openings available for the 2027 season and we still beleive that to be the case. We all know about Bowdoin. We won't comment yet on the second one.

NM
[/quote]

So let me get this straight. You're advising qualified coaches to stay away from Bowdoin rather than take a shot at turning the program around? Why? Because Hammer ran the program into the ground, the next guy shouldn't even bother?

And I'm getting pretty tired of the "talentless offense" narrative that keeps getting thrown around here. There's more talent on that roster than people seem willing to acknowledge. From what I've heard, Hammer made some highly questionable decisions at very key offensive positions, and there's reason to believe personal preferences played a bigger role than actual talent or performance. Chances were not given. Those decisions had consequences well beyond who got the starting job. They affected the entire offense and the dynamics of the team.

Before everyone writes off Bowdoin's offensive talent, maybe they should be asking whether the right players were ever given a legitimate shot. You can't judge an offense's ceiling when personnel decisions and coaching have been part of the problem.

Frankly, I think Bowdoin could be a pretty interesting opportunity for the right coach. A fresh set of eyes on the roster, an actual merit-based approach to playing time, and a staff that knows how to develop talent could make a real difference. Nobody's suggesting this is an overnight turnaround, but acting like the program is beyond saving is ridiculous.

A good coach should see an opportunity here, not a reason to run the other way.

[bearsalum]

And to be fair to the current coaching staff, I wonder how much flexibility they really had to make changes once Hammer was gone. By then, preseason camp was over, reps had been allocated, and some players may never have gotten a real opportunity to compete for key positions because of decisions made early in camp. Were the coaches too far into the season to realistically shake things up? Or were they reluctant to undo personnel decisions Hammer had made, even if those decisions weren't working? Maybe some combination of both.

Either way, I don't think we've necessarily seen what this offense is capable of with the right personnel in the right positions. It's hard to judge a roster's talent when you have to question whether it was ever properly evaluated in the first place.

[TheJeff]

I think the narrative is built around no coach in recent memory being able to sustain success at Bowdoin. The numbers don't lie. In many cases, you can't blame the coaches as the Maine schools are often harder to recruit at than the rest of the league.

In regards to Bowdoin's offensive talent, it is definitely in the bottom half of the league and I don't think you can argue otherwise. You cannot tell me they have more talent than Amherst, Trinity, Wesleyan, Williams, Tufts, or Midd (even Hamilton this year). That leaves the Maine schools, common denominator, harder to recruit there, less talent. I don't think Bowdoin has a Nolan O'Brien hiding on the bench, or even a Jack Nye.

[bearsalum]

I don't disagree that Bowdoin isn't as talented top to bottom as some of those programs. But I think you're giving the coaching a pretty big pass here.

From what I've been told, that offense could have looked a lot different if Hammer had made decisions at key positions based on who could actually play, not who he liked. Hard to know what you've got when certain guys never really get a shot or the reps to prove themselves.

And come on, let's not act like Bowdoin is taking kids nobody else wanted. A lot of these guys were recruited by other very good academic schools and football programs, including in the NESCAC.

I also don't buy the whole Maine excuse. Brunswick is 20 minutes from Portland, not the middle of nowhere. Other Bowdoin teams manage to recruit and win. Why is football somehow incapable of doing the same?

I'm not saying there's a NESCAC championship roster hiding up there. But I don't believe the offense is nearly as talentless as everyone keeps saying. Maybe before we write off the players, we should look a little harder at how they were coached and decisions that were made.

Get the right coach in there, let him evaluate the roster without any baggage, and see what happens.

[Gray Fox]

Just so we are clear as I understood it, you wouldn't be claiming a share of a title and a 33% chance of an automatic bid. In a world where point differential can be determinative, you could know you needed to lose by a certain number of points on the last week of the season to ensure sole possession of the conference championship and the bid that goes with it.

I'm not sure how much that would impact team behavior but it's hard to say it would be zero. If Wesleyan is up 7 against Trinity with 2 minutes to play and knows that if they don't win by at least 9 points Trinity will be declared conference champs rather than them of course they try to drive down the field for a field goal rather than take a knee. These are obviously corner cases but I don't like the incentive structure of point differential tiebreakers.

Got it. I misunderstood your point. I think we all agree a three-way tie stinks. It sounds like some of us would prefer an imperfect criteria and others side with a random chance. The league has chosen randomness.

It's worth repeating that it's overwhelmingly likely that (at least for this season) all three would qualify for the postseason if they finish the year with 1 loss. We are certainly all looking forward discussing the games and not tie-breaking scenarios!

If you were in Nevada, they would deal poker hands.  Still random, but way more fun.

[Brady12]

[/quote]
If you were in Nevada, they would deal poker hands.  Still random, but way more fun.
[/quote]


Omaha or Oklahoma Drill definitely more fun then a coin toss.