MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

observations

In the long run, I called this one right - Fontbonne Big men Storandt and Fogerty played even with Nicholds and Hogget ; Wings White and Kuhn offset   -   But Fontbonne guards had the night they couldn't have - a doughnut from the field by Branch (please Coach, FORNIE!!!!) and turnovers and poor shot selection from McCoy  -  Spinner had one of his best of the year, and the combo of Messman, Whitcomb and Turk did a nice job at the other guard spot for Webster.

Wow JV'r  Terrance Love comes out of nowhere to have 10 points for Fontbonne - quick spinning jumper that's a thing of Beauty - a shame he wasn't ready earlier in the season, but every bit of game experience will help ready him for future playing time.

Good crowd, not full, but great for the SLIAC..  the Fontbonne kids got a bit too boysterous at one point, but calmed it down when the nearby crowd complained - they realized they had gone a little too far, and cut it back - thanks guys.

I thought the refs did a pretty good job - didn't seem like anycall or series of calls was way out of line.

personally --  at least tonight - too many moves by Hoggett and Fogarty -spin every which way, fake every which way, step every which way, then take a diving 12 foot fall away  -  I much prefer the Nicholds/Storant method - power to the hole for a layup or 5 foot hook and get fouled.

White and Kuhn, two picture perfect shooting forms - nice to see Cory go to the basket a couple times too  -  he's more of a player than a 3 point perimeter shooter.  And Spinner - I thought virtually a perfect game at the point.

HUGE win for Westminster tonight.

[y_jack_lok]

MacAttack, regarding tie-breakers, you posted the following a couple of days ago:

"According to the SLIAC website, here's the tie-breaker rules:

For all two way ties, other than for fourth, the procedures are, in order: 1) Head-to-Head competition between the tied teams. 2) Record of the tied teams against other teams starting with highest. 3) Total point differential in the games between the tied teams. 4) Coin flip conducted by the Commissioner.

For multiple team ties, including for fourth, the procedures are, in order: 1) Head-to-Head competition between the tied teams. 2) Total point differential in games between the tied teams. 3) Coin flip conducted by the Commissioner.

For two way ties for fourth the procedures are, in order: 1) Head-to-Head competition between the tied teams. 2) A playoff, on a neutral court selected by the Commissioner, on the Wednesday or Thursday prior to the Tournament."

Tonight you posted the following:

"Question - if MacMurray wins out, they finish 14-4 in the SLIAC, same record as Webster. Webster would host because of the sweep of Fontbonne - but wouldn't MacMurray still be the regular season co-champ? My guess would be the league uses the tiebreaker formula to determine the post-season tournament seed - and not the regular season order of finish. Right or wrong?"

In either scenario where Webster and Mac are regular season co-champs by virtue of identical 14-4 records, Webster hosts the tournament. But your second post contradicts your first regarding what is the first tie-breaker. I'm assuming your first post to be correct as I suspect you copied it directly from the SLIAC site. Help me out>

[hopefan]

Assuming no losses to non contenders, here are the remaining playoff scenarios - please correct me if any are in error - EC and Westmin both play at GC

1)   EC over GC, GC over Westmin
standings are Webster and Mac @ 14-4, Font and EC @ 12-6
Webster and Mac split, but vs 3-4 Font and EC, Webster swept both Font and EC while Mac split with Font, So Webster Hosts, Mac 2 , EC 3 having swept Font, Font 4

2)  GC over EC, GC over Westmin
standings are Webster and Mac @ 14-4, Font and GC @ 12-6
Webster no 1 having swept Font while Mac split with them  , 3 and 4 Font and Greenville split , but Greenville split with Webster and Mac while Font  was swept by Webster, so Greenville 3, font 4

3)   EC over GC, Westmin over GC
standings are Webster and Mac @ 14-4, Font Westmin & EC @ 12-6
Webster no 1 having swept both Font and EC , record between the 3-4-5  teams is Font 2-2, EC 2-2, EC 2-2, so it goes to point diff.  Font is +27 for third, EC is (9) for 4th, Westmin is (18) for 5th and out.

4)  GC over EC, Westmin over GC
standings are Webster and Mac @ 14-4, Font and Westmin @ 12-6
Webster no 1 having swept Font  , Font no 3 having swept Westmin, Westmin 4

Interesting, if I'm right, Westmin does not control their own destiny, as they must beat Greenville and have Greenville beat Eureka.  If Greenville wins both, they're in.  If Eureka beats Greenville they're in.  Fontbonne in, but could be 3, playing Mac, or 4 playing Webster.

[Mac Attack]

y_jack_lok: When BunchTime posted "...another conference title...", it wasn't clear to me if by hosting the tournament also meant claiming the conference title, based on the tiebreaker. According to the league website, if Mac and Webster both win out, they will be co-champs.

hopefan: I think MacMurray can split their last two games and still finish second. That would give them a 13-5 mark. Everyone chasing Mac has 10 wins with two games left to play. I assume you were refering to Fontbonne, Eureka, Westminster, and Greenville when you said "assumming no losses to non-contenders."

Greenville has been tough as nails all year long at home. Westminster is coming on strong. Eureka is still very dangerous. Fontbonne must win at upset-minded Maryville. Should be interesting - very, very interesting.

[hopefan]

Mac, I agree- Mac has dangerous @ Blackburn game, but the game that could produce a real shocker might be Font @ Maryville - Coach Rogers might have his club totally fired up for that game, and Font may be starting to run out of gas after losses to 1&2 Mac and Webster.   I'm not sure if Font can get up for this last week - Coach McKinney is really going to have to pull some strings, cause those guys are likely hurtin bad after last night.

[y_jack_lok]

MacAttack, I agree that with identical 14-4 records (if that happens) Webster and Mac should be co-champs and that the tie-breaker should only be used to determine who hosts the tournament. The contradiction I was pointing out was in what is the first tie-breaker -- head-to-head, or best record against the next team in the standings. You said one thing (head-to-head) in your first post and another thing (best record against the next team -- you implied it would be Fontbonne) in your second post. So I just want to know which is the first tie-breaker for tournament hosting purposes.

Although I am a partisan Webster fan, I have no problem with sharing a conference regular season championship with MacMurray. Both teams have had excellent seasons, and both teams will deserve the title of champion (or co-champion) if they end with identical records. I don't believe in splitting hairs on this question. Please, just clarify for me which is the first tie breaker and which is the second, for purposes of hosting the tournament.

[Tom Hart]

Mr. Hart, I don't see how the schedule can be completed by playing only on Wed and Saturdays. For that to happen, you would have to start the Saturday after Thankgiving to complete the 18 game schedule.  There would have to be 5 conf. games played before the break. For schools that can't keep kids over break for long periods of time (i.e. Eureka), how would you fit in your non-conference games?

I believe that next year the NCAA adjusts the championship schedule back so that the SLIAC tournament will be February 28 (men) and 29 (women) with March 1 for(championships).  So, this means there will be two games in the first semester
and 8 weeks (starting on January 5 ending on February 26) to get the other 16 games
in.

Also, if the SLIAC tournament is at Webster, I believe there will be more internet broadcasts.   

[FU_Pride]

Tough loss for the young Griffins last night but in no way was a back breaker.  Now they must take care of Lincoln Christian at home and then travel to Maryville, one of the hardest gyms to play well at in the SLIAC.  A few observations that I had from the game.

1.  We had a few kids get a little testy for a bit.  I'll be the first to apoligize.
2.  We needed Fourne a little more last night.  When he came in late he provided a bit a of a spark that eventually allowed to Griffins to cut it to 3 i believe.  He plays some of the best defense on the team I believe and that could have been to some use last night.
3.  There were a few FU players who were sitting on the end of the bench (not naming names) with towels on their heads when they were not in the game.  That bothers me a little bit.  Show some support for your teammates fellas!!!
4.  I agree with Hopefan.  To many forced shots on the inside by  Hogget and Fogerty.  However, I think that Fogerty gets frustrated with the number of touches he gets and that attributes to some of the forced shots.  FU does like to launch the 3 ball.
5.  Shot selection, Shot selection, Shot selection.  Now to his credit, I haven't seen him do this much this season, but McCoy took a few shots, one really unnecessary.  FU shot a 3 and missed, they kick it out, and he launched a 30 footer.  I haven't seen that out of him for awhile.

There were some students in the crowd saying that Coach McKinney was unable to get the kids motivated.  B.S.!! If you play for Fontbonne and not get motivated to face Webster, at Webster, then don't even show up!!!  There should be no motivation needed for that game. 


Sorry everyone-------had high hopes for last nights games.  I am a little dissapointed.  Let's get back in the win column on Saturday Griffins!

[hopefan]

one of the things I notice is that in 2 of the 4 playoff scenarios, Fontbonne would play Webster in the first round - hoping this doesn't happen.  Ithink a more entertaining semifinal would be Mac and Font (a likely high scoring shootout) and Webster vs whoever, where the David vs Goliath mentality could lead to a mental edge for the 4th seed.  A Webster - Mac final would pit what seems to be the two best teams in the conference, but of course it doesn't always work out that way.   

[hopefan]

With Webster hosting, it provides real D3 fans in the area the opportunity to see both the Men's and the Women's conf tourney.  The women will be at Maryville, and from what I see, all games could be competitive in that playoff as well as the men's.  Looks like Font and possibly Greenville will have teams in both tourneys...   I believe women's semis are Thursday, Men's semis Friday, women's finalS Sat Afternoon, Men's finals Sat Night.

[y_jack_lok]

1.  We had a few kids get a little testy for a bit.  I'll be the first to apoligize.

Above from FU_Pride. One of your students in particular seriously violated the call for "no use of profanity" in the sportsmanship statement that is read before each game. His vitriolic epithet directed at one or more of the officials would have got him kicked out of the gym if anyone in authority had heard it.

[pantherpride06]

To Webster AD Tom Hart:

I really enjoyed the broadcast of the Webster/Fontbonne game last night.  I know MacAttack & Bunch Time sat and listned to it.  The fellows did a great job.  Really impressed with how well it ran, the quality, and the professionalism w/ some laughs here and there.  Great job.  I called the station at Halftime letting the switchboard that they were doing a good job.

Thanks!  Hope to hear all the SLIAC Tourney games on the Galaxy!

[BunchTime]

Y_Jack:  Although I do not condone the use of profanity by any student section, or group of students; however, as we all know, this is unfortunately part of the environment involving competition and students at this level.  It is pervassive at all levels and very difficult to monitor by refs or administration since typically it is not loud enough to hear by everyone, other than the fans close to the group of persons.  Thus, my advice is this: if it is possible, try to refrain from sitting close to either school's respective students!

[y_jack_lok]

BunchTime, seems that at the beginning of the season we were on the same page entirely, however, we have crossed swords on a couple of issues of lately. I don't need advice from you on where to sit. I sit in the about the same place every game. And your post does seem to condone the use of profanity by brushing it off as "unfortunately part of the environment involving competition and students at this level." If you had heard what I heard you might feel differently because it was uttered with such vehemence as other noise was dying down, that I, and those around me heard it crystal clear. If the officials had not been on the other end of the court and had heard it, it would not have surprised me to have play whistled to a halt, followed by a request for the offending student to be removed from the gym.

[fcnews]

I wanted to wait and post on last nites game. Watched game film and got a good nites sleep.

Fontbonne lost all hope for a share of the SLIAC Title last night. I know all of you on here thought I was a crazy homer for liking the chances of this team early in the year (back to pre season). This group of 18 yr. olds had me believing right till the end.

First things first. I can't believe Hopefan is jumping back on the MU Upset Bandwagon. !!!!!!!!

A few observations about earlier observations. FU did a great job on Hoggatt:
Hoggatt - 5-15, 1-2 ft (FCnews pregame Keys to Victory), 11 pts, 9rebs, 35 mins.

Storandt - 5-8, 11pts., 10 rebs, 3blks - 25 mins. ( another double - double)
Levette - 5-7, 10pts, 3 rebs, 1blk. - 10 mins. (this wasn't JV opponent)

Fogerty played like a warrior.
Fogerty - 5-9, 10-14 ft. 7 rebs. - 35 mins. (5-9 is good shooting with any shot selection)

White and Kuhn was a fun match up to watch. Kuhn suprised FU by taking it to the hole a few times.

Kuhn - 7-11, 1-4 3's, 15 pts, 2 rebs
White - 7-14, 5-7 3's, 0-0 ft(), 19 pts., 7 rebs. ( Future SLIAC POY )
Nobody has proved to me yet that they can match up with White.

Scott Spinner played what many have already described as a perfect game. On Senior Night. Had a chance to speak with him before the game. One of the SLIAC's best.

Spinner - 5-10, 4-7 3's, 9 assists - 38 mins.

Also props to Sr. Shawn Nichoalds on what many said was a career night.
Nichoalds - 6-7, 7-10 ft., 19 pts. , 5 rebs.

Josh Branch only played 19 mins. guys. Fournie played 15 because of foul trouble.

FU guards went 1-15 from 3's ( McCoy 1-7, Branch 0-5, Fournie 0-3 ) end of story. Fcnews key to victory - FU needs to shoot well.

Zach Dill look good in 20 mins. of PT.- 7pts, 3rebs, 2 assists, 0 to's

The Griffin's played the SLIAC Champs to a very close game. While WU had perfect and career nites. And, if FU guards shoot 25% 3's they win. FU had an 8 pt. lead with four to go in 1st half before 3 straight to's. FU was down 1 with 4 mins. to play and McCoy (90% FT) at the line. He misses front end and Spinner hits a 3 pt. game over.

Don't think this team will lay down. And, I guarantee you Coach Bunch doesn't want to see FU in the 1 st round. "Hard to beat a team three times in one year."